HomeMy WebLinkAbout2-09-2011 Council Meeting Minutes (ds)COUNCIL MEETING
February 9, 2011
The Council Meeting of the Council of the County of Kauai,
order by the Council Chair at the Council Chambers, 3371 -A Wilcox
Kauai, on Wednesday, February 9, 2011 at 9:23 a.m., after which
members answered the call of the roll:
Honorable Tim Bynum
Honorable Dickie Chang
Honorable Derek S. K. Kawakami
Honorable Nadine K. Nakamura
Honorable Mel Rapozo
Honorable JoAnn A. Yukimura
Honorable Jay Furfaro, Council Chair
APPROVAL OF AGENDA:
was called to
Road, Lihu`e,
the following
Mr. Rapozo moved for approval of the agenda as circulated, seconded by Mr. Chang.
Chair Furfaro: Any discussion?
Mr. Nakamura: On the approval of the agenda, if we could
ask that we refer to page four (4) of the Council's agenda under Committee Reports
and Resolutions. There's a typographical error on Committee Report CR -EDR 2011-
01, it's supposed to be 02, and on EDR 2011 -01, that should also be 02. Under the
Resolution's on the third Resolution No. 2011 -28, that should be 2011 -38 Mr. Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Okay so we have two (2) amendments to the
agenda. I did catch the second one which was the amendment of Resolution 2011-
28; it should be Resolution No. 2011 -38.
Mr. Nakamura: Correct.
Chair Furfaro: And I'm sorry the other one is?
Mr. Nakamura: On the top of page four (4) under Committee
Reports Economic Development & Renewable Energy Strategies Committee that
should read, just under that CR -EDR 2011 -02 as opposed to 01 and this would be on
EDR 2011 -02 instead of 01, they're both on page four (4).
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Can we have a housekeeping
motion to correct those numbers?
Mr. Bynum moved to amend the agenda as stated, seconded by Mr. Rapozo, and
unanimously carried.
Chair Furfaro: Now we'll go back to approving the agenda?
Mr. Nakamura: Correct.
Mr. Rapozo moved to approve the agenda as amended, seconded by Mr. Chang, and
unanimously carried.
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Chair Furfaro: We'll go into the minutes and I think that's
when I'll recognize Councilwoman Yukimura.
Mr. Nakamura:
minutes?
Can we have a motion to approve the
MINUTES of the following meeting of the Council:
Inaugural Meeting of December 1, 2010 (Deferred 112612011)
Special Council Meeting of January 11, 2011
Council Meeting of January 12, 2011
Ms. Yukimura moved to approve the Minutes, seconded by Mr. Rapozo.
Chair Furfaro: Any discussion?
Ms. Yukimura: Yes please.
Chair Furfaro: Councilwoman Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: Just that I've been concerned with the
Inaugural Meeting Minutes and the attachments. It's been explained to me since
our last meeting that while the attachments are not placed on the minutes which
are electronically sent to us for approval or for review, they will be attached to the
minutes that are made available on the web and to our hard copy minutes. With
that, I'm fine for approving those minutes.
Chair Furfaro:
second to approve the minutes?
Ms. Yukimura:
Chair Furfaro:
those in favor?
Thank you. So did I have a motion and a
Yes.
Is there any further discussion? If not, all
The motion for approval of the minutes as circulated was then put, and
unanimously carried.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Clerk?
Mr. Nakamura: First matter on the Council's agenda is
communication C 2011 -55.
COMMUNICATIONS:
C 2011 -55 Communication (12/28/2010) from Beth Tokioka, Director of
Communications, Office of the Mayor, transmitting for Council information, the
Kekaha Host Community Benefits Citizens Advisory Committee (KHCBCAC)
conceptual plan pursuant to Ordinance B- 2010 -714 adopted by the Council at its
meeting held on September 15, 2010. Mr. Rapozo moved to receive C 2011 -55 for
the record, seconded by Ms. Yukimura.
COUNCIL MEETING
FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Chair Furfaro: I'm going to suspend the rules and allow
Beth Tokioka to make a presentation and then I will open for public comments.
Beth do you have a PowerPoint presentation for us this morning?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
BETH TOKIOKA (DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS): Yes I do, thank
you.
Chair Furfaro: Very good. Can somebody attend to the
lights?
Ms. Tokioka: Good morning Councilmembers. I'm Beth
Tokioka for the record, Office of the Mayor. I'm very happy to be here this morning
to talk to you about the Kekaha Host Community Benefits and the Citizens
Advisory Committee activities. I have a little bit of information to present to you
today but mainly we are here as a follow up to the Bill that was passed in December
which allowed us to access additional funding to continue the process of the Citizens
Advisory Committee and their quest to identify projects to be funded through the
Host Community Benefits fund. It was our task to come back to the Council with a
plan for action for use of those funds and that's what we'll be presenting to you
today. This PowerPoint will take us through a little bit of history about the CAC
process for the benefit of those who haven't been involved from the beginning and
for the public at large. Before I begin I just wanted to note that we have with us
today Mr. Bruce Pleas who is the Chair of the CAC, as well as Jose Bulatao who is
the Vice Chair. We also have, in addition to me, two (2) other non - voting members
of the CAC and that is Allison Fraley from the Solid Waste Division, and Mauna
Kea Trask who is our Deputy County Attorney. I believe Bruce will be ready to
speak on behalf of the CAC if you have any questions following the presentation and
any of us from the non- voting side will be available as well.
First off a little bit about the history of the Kekaha Host Community Benefits
Program, the purpose really was and it's used in many communities to compensate
a Host Community that is nearby a landfill or another facility of that type. This
was initiated in 2008 when the County went out to Kekaha and presented some
plans to expand that landfill. It was decided that we would set up a Host
Community Benefits Program to benefit the community of Kekaha and the concept
is to provide funding for projects that benefit that community and it was
determined that the best way to do that was to have a Citizens Advisory Committee
that would represent the community and be able to make recommendations back to
the County which types of projects the community desires and would be most
beneficial to that community.
Just a recap what we have in terms of funding in June 2008 the Council
appropriated an initial $650,000.00, that has been supplemented each fiscal year
following that by an additional $80,000.00 which has been requested and approved
in that fiscal year's budget and that represents roughly $1.00 per ton of material
that is deposited in the landfill and that's normally how each CB funds are funded
by a calculation based on tonnage. At this point in time we have a total amount in
the HCB fund of $810,000.00, that does not include interest that will be applied,
and I apologize, I don't have the interest calculation for you today, but in addition to
passing the bill in September for the additional funds for the process, it was also
COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
approved by the County Council to appropriate interest to that fund. So there is
additional money that would insert into that fund based on the interest.
Our CAC members are listed here for your review. On the left we have our
voting members, we have nine (9) members from the community, they have been all
appointed by the Mayor, and we're very, very happy to have this group of people
who are so committed to this process. We also have four (4) non - voting members
which are basically County support staff to provide technical support and other
legal support, etc... and you can see they are noted on the right.
This is the CAC mission statement and it was adopted at the CAC's first
meeting in April of 2009. The Committee was appointed by the Mayor in March of
2009 and we had our first meeting in April and this is the mission statement: "To
serve as a community advisory committee to recommend projects and their
administrative process for the disbursement of the HCB fund(s) allocated to, and in
accordance with, the general consensus of the Kekaha community." And I think a
really key point in this mission statement is that last line regarding general
consensus of the Kekaha community. I really have to credit this group of citizens in
being very, very conscientious of not wanting to make any decision or
recommendation until they really feel that they have a sense that this is in line of
what the community wants.
The activities to date, we had an initial series of eight (8) meetings and they
started in April 2009 and they ended just about a year ago in January 2010. During
that timeframe a number of activities took place, the Committee was organized of
course and one of the main projects was to conduct a survey of the community to see
what the desires and interest were of the community. During that period a survey
was developed and it was conducted and that was done by a contractor, a consultant
that we had onboard to facilitate this first initial eight (8) meetings. We did get
some surveys back, quite a number of them, forty -one (41 %) return rate. During
those eight (8) meetings the results were tabulated, there were projects that were
prioritized and the Committee met on a number of occasions to talk about those and
to create the framework for a final report to be sent to the Mayor on which of those
projects should be funded. Again that process, that initial process was facilitated by
a consultant that... it was AECOM and they were our consultant for the expansion
of the landfill.
Just to let you know in terms of the mindset of the CAC, this is taken from
one (1) of the minutes, the minutes of the first meeting and basically that the CAC
feels really strongly that they should be the voice and again representing what
they're hearing from the community but they should be the voice for the County and
the entity we should be looking for when we are actually expanding these funds on
behalf of the community and... so the nine (9) voting members of the CAC really
are... is the go -to group for us when we're looking at this and I think we feel very
strongly that that should be the case as well.
During that process we did as I mentioned conduct a survey; these were the
results of the survey... the top five (5) areas that the Committee during the summer
of 2009 decided to focus on: (1) improving Kekaha Beach Park, (2) improving the
Kekaha Neighborhood Center, (3) begin a fund for a community pool, (4) renewable
energy projects, and (5) improving drainage on Kekaha Road. Actually on the
course of those meetings number five (5) was dropped off because that was
determined to be something that County and State government should be taking
COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9. 2011
care of outside of the HCB funds. But at the end of the eight (8) initial meetings,
the top four (4) were the ones that were focused on.
What has happened since then? At the end of those meetings, that series in
January of 2010, the Chair at the time who was Randy Hee was asked to prepare a
final report based on the discussions of the Committee to date and that report was
to be submitted to the Mayor and the community for possible adoption. What
happened was the final report was represented to the community and to the Mayor
in July of 2010 last summer but it was not adopted by the CAC, it was felt by the
CAC that the survey results and all of the information gathering they had done up
to that point had not brought them to the point of really being able to make a
recommendation to us and that they wanted to do additional work before making a
recommendation. Again this points to the conscientious nature of this group of
citizens who really want to get it right and the fact that we're doing something
brand new and taking the time that we need to make it happen. At that point the
previous work was sort of you know, set to the side, and we began monthly meetings
again in August to start talking about where we go from there. In the meantime
our Chair Randy Hee had to resign for personal reasons and the Mayor replaced
him with Thomas Nizo. Bruce Pleas was then appointed Chair of the Committee.
Also Thomas Nizo started working on a concept for, instead of using a survey to
identify what was needed, to use an RFP process which I'll go into a little bit later,
but he came up with a concept that the Committee felt really good about exploring.
And then roughly the same time last summer was when Council Chair Furfaro
introduced the Bill that would allocate additional funding so that the work could
continue. It's a very intense process and we had a consultant onboard to facilitate
and that contract had ended at that point and we really appreciated the opportunity
to have some funding to bring another consultant onboard to help facilitate this
process in the right way so that allocation was presented to the Council and
approved in September but it was contingent upon the submission of a conceptual
plan so that the Council would know how we would be proceeding and that's what
we're here to show you today.
We met with the CAC over the last few months to talk about what will it take
to get us to the next level and actually getting us to the next level and actually get
us to the point of the CAC being able to make its recommendations and what we're
recommending at this point based on our discussions is that we procure the services
of a consultant that will facilitate and work through a process that will help us get
to that recommendation and a report so that we could actually act on that and start
expending the funds on behalf of the people of Kekaha.
This would be the scope of work that would be needed that we would be
looking at running a series of workshops, meetings, Sub - Committee meetings and
also doing a great deal of community outreach over a period of months and based on
the fact that we're talking about you know quite a number of meetings, may be up
to sixteen (16) or eighteen (18) meetings, I'm guessing this process will take us six
(6) months, possibly longer than that to complete but this would be the scope of
work for the consultant and the facilitator to be able to take us through a process to
get to that point of decision and recommendation.
This slide basically is a lot of boxes so I'll just try to explain... this is sort of
the meat of what we would be helping the CAC get through during this process
which would bring us to the point of making some recommendations. This is
Thomas Nizo's plan to run a request for proposals type of a process whereby the
COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
community, groups in the community would be encouraged to present projects to
the CAC and that the CAC would then review and look at those projects, receive
community input and make a final determination. Now what Thomas did which I
thought was very thoughtful and interesting was that in that top long blue box are
six (6) categories of types of proposals and what he did was trying to honor the work
that had been done in the survey. He looked back in that survey that was done the
summer before and the types of projects that had been and the number of votes that
they got to get a sense of what the community was looking for. So he was able to
group them into six (6) different categories and assign a percentage based on the
number of votes that each one received. The six (6) categories are: (1) community
improvements which would be CIP type of projects... improvements to the Beach
Park or the Neighborhood Center, (2) Economic Revitalization, (3)
Environment /Sustainability, (4) Education/Culture and the Arts, (5) Human
Services and (6) Health and Wellness. The way this would work is that the CAC
would invite community groups or interested parties to submit proposals that would
fit into one (1) of these categories and they would do some outreach previous to that
to let people know how to apply so that we can ensure that we get good solid
proposals in. So they would solicit these proposals, have them come in, they would
review them, probably take them through a public process of getting more input on
the proposals from the public, and ultimately would end up in a recommendation to
the County of which should be funded, and it's my understanding that they wouldn't
be probably using all of the funds during this round of initial proposals but would be
chunking it out so that over a series of years there would be an opportunity for new
projects to come to the table.
I think all of us, I know from what I've heard from the CAC meetings,
everybody feels very good that this is a very good process in a way to get this money
out into the community and perhaps even build capacity of some of the community
groups out there. The bulk of the process and the meetings that we're talking about
facilitating with this money would be to take us through this process for the first
time, set it up and get this going so that it can continue going forward.
Our next steps now are to gain your concurrence on this conceptual plan so
that we can begin the procurement process to bring the facilitator onboard and to
hopefully award that contract within a couple of months so we can get the process
really up and going. In the meantime we are continuing to meet monthly with the
CAC and just supporting that effort through our county manpower just to ensure
there's great momentum right now, great interest and we want to make sure that
that keeps moving forward as best it can until we can get the facilitator onboard to
really take this process to the next level, get to the point where we can start
expending this money on behalf of this community. That is my presentation and I'd
be happy to bring Bruce up if you have questions for me or for Bruce, I'd be happy to
entertain questions at this time.
Chair Furfaro: Beth it might be better if we have you for
some questions on this presentation and then we'll surely bring up Bruce.
Ms. Tokioka: Okay, sure.
Chair Furfaro: Can we get the lights back on and every
member do you have a hard copy of the presentation that was just made? Very
good. Thank you Beth. So members if you heard me let's focus our questions on the
COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
presentation made by Beth and then we'll certainly bring up Bruce. Is Bruce in the
audience?
Mr. Chang: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Oh, I didn't see you, Bruce, there. Okay
members any questions for Beth on the historic background on how we got where
we're at, and with the new allocation it was a condition on the Council that we be
briefed on this new fund that we put on, and this accomplishes that task. Any
questions? Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: Thank you for the presentation and it's nice
to get this update and see. So this plan that you outline, you feel like there's a
consensus from the CAC about this is the way to go?
Ms. Tokioka:
Yes definitely.
Mr. Bynum: And thank you CAC for coming to a
consensus. Personally I particularly like the RFP kind of idea because it's a process
that you know allows for creativity and has fairness built in and we know how to do
that and we have that expertise and it ends up with a decision to expand the funds
and projects. Looking at the community interest areas there's some dollars
attached to this and it looks like it's about two hundred thousand (200,000) a year
so is it the intent of the CAC, I think you answered this already but do a
approximately two hundred thousand (200,000) this year and then two hundred
thousand (200,000) the next year, eventually that would use up the fund that's
there because we're putting around eighty (80) more or less depending upon you
know the volume into the landfill?
Ms. Tokioka: Correct.
Mr. Bynum: Do I have that right?
Ms. Tokioka: Yes that's correct. That was Thomas's intent
was his proposal, the CAC could ultimately grant more or less in any given year but
the idea was if you did it in that way it would spread the dollars out over a number
of years.
Mr. Bynum: And in the final, when the RFP's were
reviewed and the discussions were made that those discussions were made by the
CAC?
Ms. Tokioka: Yes.
Mr. Bynum: And they understanding that with that
comes some accountability, right?
Ms. Tokioka: Yes. And I think that's why, that's why
they're taking such a thoughtful approach and taking their time because they
realize that's a big responsibility.
Mr. Bynum: So is there a choice to keep that
responsibility rather than allocating to the Mayor or somebody else?
COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Ms. Tokioka: Correct. The recommendations ultimately
will have to be reviewed by us to ensure that these projects are in fundable and
viable and that they won't require for example permits of some kind that would
make it very difficult to achieve. Ideally we'd like to be looking at those things as
they're moving through the process, so by the time it gets to recommendation we
know they're all feasible. But eventually the recommendations will come to the
Mayor and then we would need to seek your concurrence on how those funds are
being spent. So we will be back to you again with the recommendations at some
point.
Mr. Bynum: And you anticipated my next question that
there will be some review from the County about legality and appropriateness and
we can put in our two (2) cents about what we know about what's possible and what
is it?
Ms. Tokioka: Correct.
Mr. Bynum: And... I won't get too technical but when the
RFP is developed because our RFP's give guidance to the people applying about
what the questions they need to answer, that would be part of the consultant's scope
of work?
Ms. Tokioka: Yes and in fact at this point we are actually
looking at an application document, we're using our Ho`olokahi grant application as
a start and the Committee is looking at how that might be amended to actually
work for the purposes of this Committee. That work is not complete. By the time
the facilitator comes onboard that would be part of that as well to ensure that our
document is complete. And then to go out before inviting proposals to have an
informational meeting as we do when we do our HTA festival grants, we have an
informational meeting where we invite folks in to explain what the process is so
that everybody's clear on what the application is asking for and I believe that's the
intent of the CAC also.
Mr. Bynum: Okay, thank you very much on the
presentation.
Chair Furfaro: Other members? If not, I'll ask a few
questions. First of all thank you for a very nice presentation, it certainly looks like
the Advisory Group really did some work here.
Ms. Tokioka: They did.
Chair Furfaro: First I want to confirm what I see... it looks
like the group is going to hire a facilitator?
Ms. Tokioka: Yes or the County will hire a facilitator on
their behalf.
Chair Furfaro: Oh the County will hire a facilitator for
them?
Ms. Tokioka: Yes.
COUNCIL MEETING
FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Chair Furfaro: But that is a definite action that we're going
to take?
Ms. Tokioka: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Whatever the outcome of the deliverables, do
we have kind of a final blessing of that time table, I mean is it six (6) months from
now, is it nine (9) months from now... or at least a general idea.
Ms. Tokioka: I think I know that our Chair Bruce had
expressed a desire possibly to once we get going on this to have as many as two (2)
meetings a month. I would say given the number of meetings that we think we
need, it will take somewhere between six (6) months... six (6) to twelve (12) months.
But I know there's a real desire on the part of the CAC to move it as quickly as we
can. Hopefully it will be closer to six (6) months than twelve (12).
Chair Furfaro: And I concur when we get to those
deliverables it will be reviewed by the Mayor and then it will be delivered to this
body here to...
Ms. Tokioka: Yes, correct.
Chair Furfaro: Along the other line if you don't have the
answer to this, when they were considering the possible capital improvement plans,
uses or specific projects that the community had a desire on, was there any
discussion about the use or committing the annual revenues contribution to anyway
shape, or form of one (1) bond, for example, projecting future income to the CAC
would they say okay we can get a bigger cash allowance now by tying the payment
the County makes to a bond that would allow more planning opportunities, was
that... would finance discussion on that?
Ms. Tokioka: I don't think we've had that specific
discussion at this point. It's been more focused really on the more immediate task
at hand in getting... and then once we know what the projects are whether they are
of a CIP nature; I guess that would be good to look at that possibility.
Chair Furfaro: Well you know thank the whole Committee, I
mean we allocated this new money and we put our trust in them that they come up
with a plan that they wanted to see in their community and it looks like we're well
on our way. Thank you for the very nice presentation.
Ms. Tokioka: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Anyone else before I ask Mr. Pleas to come
up? Go ahead JoAnn.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes your presentation was very well done,
thank you for that and congratulations to you and the leadership and the CAC, the
community leadership and the CAC for the hard work that it took breaking new
ground. So the timeframe is six (6) to twelve (12) months and the intention and the
commitment is that within that period there will be a list of projects that has
community consensus for appropriation and implementation?
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Ms. Tokioka: Yes, correct that's the expectation for the
final deliverable, yes.
Ms. Yukimura: And then you mentioned that the six
hundred fifty thousand (650,000) is about a dollar per ton deposited presently in
the...
Ms. Tokioka: The initial six hundred fifty thousand
(650,000) I think was a number determined by the members of the Council at the
time.
Ms. Yukimura: Right.
Ms. Tokioka: And I don't know if that was based on a
scientific calculation of that sort but the eighty thousand (80,000) per year since
then has been based on a calculation of an...
year.
Ms. Yukimura: I see.
Ms. Tokioka: Because then we're estimating for the next
Ms. Yukimura: I see.
Ms. Tokioka: For the coming year.
Ms. Yukimura: So we're putting into that landfill as an
island about eighty thousand (80,000) tons of solid waste each year?
Ms. Tokioka: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: Well that's a figure to consider. Okay thank
you. The ninety -five thousand (95,000) does seem like a large figure for a six (6) to
twelve (12) month facilitation process, are you intending to have that whole amount
allocated or are you going to be... maybe parceling out that money and saving some
for a reserve in case of contingencies?
Ms. Tokioka: I think... well one of the things in addition to
the facilitating of the process, the CAC really needs to have a dedicated PA system
out at the Kekaha Neighborhood Center. One of the things that they would like to
do with this money is to purchase such a system because right now we're borrowing
from Boards and Commissions and hauling it out every time we have a meeting.
But that would be less than five thousand dollars ($5,000) expenditure which would
leave the rest of the money possibly for this facilitation process, and I have heard
some feedback that it shouldn't cost us that much money. I think what we'll, when
we get to the negotiation of the contract with the facilitator, we will know whether
or not there's surplus but you know I don't know if there are additional needs above
and beyond the facilitation... the contract with the consultant we could consider
using it and probably we will need to come back to you at that time. But if we didn't
need to use it all, I don't know if we spend it, find a way to spend it just to spend it.
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Ms. Yukimura: I'm not familiar with the RFP process but if
you tell them there's so much money... oftentimes the proposal will expand to use
up that money so...
Ms. Tokioka: Yeah. That's about what it cost us to run the
process with AECOM the first time, although they were a off - island company, so a
lot of that were travel to Kauai to facilitate meetings and such. So it will be
interesting to see if we get proposals from entities here on island whether that
reduction in cost is reflected in the proposal.
Ms. Yukimura: My last question is, in the projects as they
are being considered, is there a costing of the maintenance and lifecycle costing of
proposed facilities because that can sometimes dwarf upfront implementation cost
and you want to make sure that the maintenance can be done, whatever the facility
is, if it is a facility, I mean the proposals may be programs and services.
Ms. Tokioka:
Right.
Ms. Yukimura: But that accurate costing would seem
important so that the community knows what it's choosing.
Ms. Tokioka: Yes. That's been a discussion all through the
process especially when we're talking about improvements to County facilities such
as the Beach Park or the Neighborhood Center that that has to be factored in and it
can't be assumed that the County would just assume that maintenance cost from
General Fund. It's a very good point that as we put out the RFP I think we need to
be asking those who are submitting to be thinking about that in their own
development of their proposal is what would be the ongoing cost, so that upfront
we're evaluating that before it ever gets to a final approval by the CAC, we're all
clear as to whether or not the County would be willing to assume that cost in the
General Fund side or would be need to be something that additionally comes out of
the HCB allocation. So it's something that we definitely need to include in the
process and be accountable to.
Ms. Yukimura:
And then...
Chair Furfaro: Oh, I thought that was your last question; I
was going to... go ahead, I'm sorry.
Ms. Yukimura: This is my last question.
Chair Furfaro: Okay.
Ms. Yukimura: In terms of the projects to be considered
given this very creative RFP process and the allocation of funds in different
categories, you're not limiting yourselves or the Committee is not limiting itself to
the first five (5) that were selected, is that correct?
Ms. Tokioka: I think we haven't gotten that detailed in the
discussions but I don't believe they would be, I think their intent is to look at the...
all the proposals that come in as a group and I'm assuming they would try to impact
each of those categories in some way but there will need to be probably I'm guessing
as most processes like this go, you get more dollars requested than dollars available.
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Ms. Yukimura: Right.
Ms. Tokioka: So there won't be a need to weed out, but I
think the intent is to try to hit each of this need area or focus areas to a certain
extent.
Ms. Yukimura: Because I'm aware that there've been some
really imaginative discussions about a multi -use path that connects Waimea to
Kekaha and that might be a way of expanding the money or the... reach of the
moneys, because then the people of Kekaha would have easy access to the Waimea
swimming pool and vice versa when there's a Kekaha celebration, and there's also
been talk about it being mauka so that it can be a holding place in case of tidal
waves and so forth, so it seems like it could meet many purposes besides exercise
and health and transportation and all of that. So I'm glad that the Committee is
not limiting itself to four (4) and taking a wider look.
Ms. Tokioka: I think they're very open to hearing what's
out there because I think at this point they're very uncomfortable making a decision
on behalf of the community until they have more information and hopefully we will
get a lot of creative proposals to consider either now or they could be held for the
next round depending on how often they want to go through the process.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you very much, thank you Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Councilwoman Nakamura.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you Beth and the CAC and Kekaha
community for paving the path here for this program. I wanted to first of all talk
about the RFP process and I'm glad that it is going to RFP. I think there are
capable facilitators to help reduce the cost of the overall project by keeping it on
island and keeping the funds on this island, so I'm glad to hear that that process is
taking place for this phase. And I also agree with Councilwoman Yukimura that
the... there's a lot of money to do a six (6) to twelve (12) month facilitation, having
done this facilitation type of work in the community, it is a lot, and if there are
surplus funds, I'd like to hear about what can be done with those funds that will
further this process. On the scope of work I think we should at the end of the day
because you're going to be receiving eighty thousand (80,000) until the year 20 -is it
sixteen (16) or eighteen (18)?
Ms. Tokioka: Roughly we're assuming there are seven (7),
eight (8)... about seven (7) years of life.
Ms. Nakamura: Yeah, that we also come up with community
consensus on the criteria that will be used to determine funding, and I'm sure that
will come out in the final recommendation but to be very clear what that criteria is
among that CAC members and community. Also I think that we should take
advantage of this community discussion to talk about the long term capacity of the
community to allocate these funds, and to look at other community improvement
projects. So there may be, I know there's the CAC, there's other community groups
there you know. Is it possible to have some consensus on who is the group
representing the community and who will receive the administrative funds that you
outlined here and who's going to actually be the liaison with the County, not just
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
now but over the long run. So I hope that you can take advantage of this discussion
to at least address some of those questions and also one of the... in looking at this
chart here under community improvements I noticed that the top two (2) projects
were related to the Beach Park and the community center and again... could be big
ticket item improvements and there's a hundred thousand (100,000) listed here for
year one so just some concern that some of the capital projects may take a bigger
percentage of the total allocation but again the discussions need to take place.
Ms. Tokioka: Some of the projects actually that fell out of
the survey were for example putting a compostable toilet at the Beach Park, not a
huge tickets items... having a cover for the hula facility at the Neighborhood Center
those kinds of things, so hopefully even in that category there might be a number of
smaller Ho`olokahi type projects that could be funded.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you for your good work.
Chair Furfaro: Members on that note, do you mind if I bring
up Bruce because some of the questions seem to go towards community issues so if
Beth if you could stay there, we could also ask Bruce to come up, I thought the first
rounds of questions would just be directed at her presentation but...
Bruce, good morning, you're going to have to introduce yourself but first let me
congratulate you on being the Chairman of the Community Committee.
BRUCE PLEAS: Thank you. For the record Bruce Pleas,
Chair Kekaha Host Community Benefits CAC.
Chair Furfaro: I'm going to turn over the floor to Mr. Rapozo
now.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you and thank you Beth for being
here, I know we spoke for a little bit yesterday in preparation for the meeting and I
just, I think some of the concerns have already been brought up but I just wanted
to... now that Bruce is here because I was really waiting to ask Bruce as the Chair
of the Committee. Part of it is the community improvements, we talked about it, it's
a huge chunk but I guess what I'm concerned about is that this program or this
organization will... what I don't want to say is (inaudible) the County's
responsibilities to do CIP projects, in other words utilizing these Host Community
Benefit Funds to pay for projects that the County should be paying for out of the
General Fund or the CIP projects. I think that is what I'm concerned about. When
I see a hundred thousand dollars a year and forty -seven percent of the fund go to
community improvements, I don't want to see the money be taken away from the
community, like the small organizations that are interested in providing services or
programs for the kids out there, I don't want to see a bulk of that money going off to
build a structure that the County should be building with General Funds or CIP
funds.
Chair Furfaro: Could I just hold that thought? Bruce, you
do have and Mr. Rapozo wasn't with us but I did provide your Committee the 2014
CIP plan so that you knew what was already earmarked, you do have that?
Mr. Pleas: Yes we did and we received that and we
looked at that. What's an interesting, what has been interesting over this whole
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
course of the CAC was that at the beginning the projects were all like CIP projects,
County projects and that was the big complaint when the Mayor came and was
voted down, was that they were all CIP projects. The County should be doing this.
What was interesting the two (2) meetings after that where we had quite a few
people coming, and they said these are the projects that we want done, these are
what we think... it was interesting, those were CIP projects too. There were
baseball groups coming in wanting to build dugouts, wanting to improve the County
parks, it was just different parks. I know it's a concern and it's been concern of the
community but when the community came back it was still high on their list to get
the county facilities up to where they would want them and they were willing to do
like Ho`olokahi, those projects where they'd come in and it would cost very little
money to do what was done. So that was a very interesting fact that I saw and I'm
not that concerned about the CIP because Kekaha Gardens is thirty -five (35) years
and it hasn't been done. So if the community wants to do something and will do it
for one -tenth of what it would cost the county, we can put the rest of that money off
for maintenance and have these groups dedicated to go ahead and maintain it. I
understand and that was a big concern, that's why the first one got shot down but
when everybody came back it was still CIP's, and we have that there, we can change
those numbers but the community is the one that's going to drive this. They're the
ones that going to bring the proposals to us, we're not making... this time the
survey comes back and says where we're going to be.
Mr. Rapozo: Bruce let me tell you, I was part of that
meeting when you guys opened up the surveys and you know and I think you will
agree that many of the people that were at that meeting never received the survey,
their voices were never heard, so I mean I appreciate your comments yeah that's
what the community wants, the question is who in the community will make this
decision because you know for a fact that not every household got a survey. Each
household got one (1) survey, so if you had a relative like in Kauai we've got groups,
family members sharing a household but only one (1) person got to vote and it was
pretty limited. What I envisioned was what I heard Beth saying earlier, the process
will be if anyone has a project that they want to do, they put in an application. That
application will be reviewed by the CAC and in fact will be voted upon and I think
that's where and I'm hoping that's the direction we're heading and not limited to the
select few members of the community got to pick.
Mr. Pleas: No, our discussion on that, the CAC, was
that's why we had the outreach portion of the ninety -five thousand for going out and
putting our newspaper ads, information for the people so the community groups will
know about the meeting when they have to come in and a facilitator to put together
the information so when they come in they have a packet there that shows them
how to apply, what the parameters are of it but the... what the money from the
Council, what we're looking at to using that for is to make sure that everyone knows
about the meetings, that's about the best we can do. What worked really well was
going around town with a blow horn on top of the car and we're going to do that
again.
Mr. Rapozo: Bruce, I don't know if you heard me.
Mr. Pleas: And...
Mr. Rapozo: When I was at that last meeting, the coaches
from Waimea High School were there, they never knew, they never had an
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
opportunity to participate, they live in Kekaha. And that's what I'm saying and I'm
hoping that this... in other words they don't have to go to a meeting to apply for
money. I'm hoping that this is like Ho`olokahi where anybody in that Kekaha
community can go down to the County Administration and pick up a packet. That
it's a program that's opened up to everyone, that's what I'm hoping, not the only
ones that can go to the meetings.
Mr. Pleas: Note taken and we will bring that up and...
Mr. Rapozo: Explain to me... it's not how it is right now?
What's the process now?
Ms. Tokioka: I think the way we have to run it is there
will need to be deadlines though so in other words...
Mr. Rapozo: I understand.
Ms. Tokioka: So we'll get the word out that here's the
process, we'll probably do an informational meeting that they can come to or not
come to but by a certain date they will be asked to submit their proposal.
Mr. Rapozo: Right,
Ms. Tokioka: For it to be considered.
Mr. Rapozo: But anybody in the Kekaha community can
do that?
Ms. Tokioka: Yes.
Mr. Rapozo: Not limited to the projects that the CAC
approve of?
Ms. Tokioka: No.
Mr. Rapozo: And the other question on the chart and I got
to agree on the ninety -five thousand because I think at two (2) meetings a month
which is what you want to do, Bruce, that works out just under four thousand
dollars a meeting for a facilitator... I think that's quite high. I think that's very
high, that's like... I might be a facilitator instead and go and take that contract.
And in addition you have the twenty thousand for the Admin support, so I'm
concerned on the cost and I think Councilmember Yukimura said now everybody
going to be watching this is going to know today wow they got ninety grand, you
know... we're going to bid high and I think what's responsible for a facilitator, I
don't know, what's it like, a hundred bucks a session? What is it?
Mr. Pleas: No.
Mr. Rapozo: I mean you guys paid the last one a lot and
I'm just saying whatever that standard is...
Ms. Tokioka: I think this is very good information and
when we do the procurement I'll talk to Purchasing about possibly framing it in a
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
way so that maybe the entire ninety -five isn't right in people face. If we can come to
reasonable expectation of what it should cost and see what we get.
Mr. Rapozo: Well I mean if you charge seventy -five bucks
an hour and it's two (2) hours a meeting, it's a hundred and fifty bucks and I'm just
trying to be reasonable here... that's a hundred fifty bucks times two (2), it's three
hundred dollars a month, you times that by twelve (12), that's thirty -six hundred
dollars a year.
Ms. Tokioka: Well that also includes preparation for the
meeting and minutes and agendas and coordinating...
Mr. Rapozo: That's what the Admin support is for, I
would think.
Ms. Tokioka: That would all come out of the ninety...
whoever is doing the contract for this process.
Mr. Rapozo: Oh so that twenty thousand is not an
additional twenty, that's out of the ninety -five?
Ms. Tokioka: That's for the ongoing process, so once we're
through this first round and we no longer have a consultant on board.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay.
Ms. Tokioka: Someone will have to run those meetings and
that would be... but we would have to keep it to a reasonable amount like twenty
thousand at that point in time.
Mr. Rapozo: Well I would just be concerned about the
amount that we allocated for a facilitator and the final question I have for right now
is the second to the last block on the bottom, review and evaluation of RFP by CAC,
public hearing and decision, public hearing meaning the Kekaha community public
hearing?
Mr. Pleas: Yes, that would be the CAC.
Mr. Rapozo: Not the general public?
Mr. Pleas: The people who attend the CAC meeting that
would be the public that attends the meeting. Those we would have posted.
Mr. Rapozo: Right.
Mr. Pleas: And have the car go around Kekaha and tell
everybody there's a public meeting on the RFPs.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay, I just want to make sure that... you
know the money and you got to go back to the intent and I think Councilmember
Yukimura asked how did the six hundred fifty thousand dollars come about, well it
is simple, the initial request was for a million and it was negotiated down it wasn't
scientific, it was something that the Council at that time felt they deserve it, they've
17
COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
been hosting this community bill for decades, and we felt that a million dollars was
sufficient, and it got knocked down to six fifty and that's fine, that was the seed
money and now it's supplemented every year. But that money was for Kekaha
community and it was to make sure the Kekaha community had the ability to get
funds to do nice things for their community and not to supplement the County
budget, so I just want to make sure that that's the message that goes back. It's
been a long time, it's been several years now, and I just want to make sure that that
intent doesn't get lost in the shuffle and that in fact we want to hold the county
accountable to what they supposed to be doing and the CIP projects. Bruce, I'm not
talking about the Kekaha Gardens, I'm talking about road paving, bathrooms you
know, those things are for the county to do. This would be more of just making
Kekaha a much better community to live in and you have those resources available
in the Host Community Benefit and I'm hoping that that intent remains not just
another account that we can go and do county spending, that's not what the intent
was anyway.
Mr. Pleas: What the moneys will be spent on is what
the community wants it spent on. The ones that come in and submit the forms and
go through the process is what it's going to be spent on. The CAC at this point does
not have access for a system so that we can record our meetings and have that
available at the Neighborhood Center so anybody can listen to what happened at
the meeting. Besides that it's the community that comes in and presents for the
RFP or the grant process and that's the one where it's going to go, then it will go to
the Mayor, and the Mayor is going to come to you. If the Council decides that the
community shouldn't spend it on CIP projects, that's up to the Council but then
you'll have to explain that to the community. The community is the one that's
going to say where this money is going.
Mr. Rapozo: Understood.
Mr. Pleas: Good and that's... as long as I'm chair, that's
where it's going. I may not agree with where it's going but that's fine with me, if
they're coming and dot their I's, crosses their t's, it's going.
Mr. Rapozo: That's how it needs to be and I'm just... just
want to make sure that everybody has an opportunity to participate in that process,
that any organization in Kekaha has the opportunity to get a packet and not just
because they had to go to a meeting or they had to participate... it's just... it's
almost like a Ho`olokahi program specifically for Kekaha. The only difference is
Ho`olokahi is five thousand, your project has a lot of money in it, and you can
service a lot of programs and services for our kids and for our elderly and a lot of
good things can come out of this money, rather than spend it on one (1) big CIP
project. That's all I have, thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Bruce, first of all I really want to thank you
for stepping up but I do need to clarify a couple items here so that we all know that
appropriate documentation; for example, whatever comes on your list as a
recommendation to the Council, I can assure you that the type o£.. the Council
funded this extra money so that we can come up with a good list so I think there is a
true intent to use this CAC money for what your community wants. The other one I
want to make sure is, within our accounting practices, you actually get park funds
by district and that district is based on you know future improvements and so forth
within your community so that's not an arbitrary number. And then in good
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
practices, accounting practices, I want to make sure you understand, I don't see the
CAC money being used for repair and maintenance for long term because when we
make the improvement in the Kekaha town, the reality is the improvement, the
physical improvement goes on our books as an asset but the repair and
maintenance is then mutually beneficial for us because if a bath house is operating
or a bike path is operating and it's well cared for, and it's repaired that asset stays
on our books. So I don't want the Committee to think, okay and then we're going to
have this long term and maintenance, that's not part of your funds, that should be
absorbed as the county maintaining the asset that you wanted us to improve on. I
just wanted to clarify that.
Mr. Pleas: May I say something on that?
Chair Furfaro: Sure.
Mr. Pleas: But that still going to come from the
community. I'm open... if these groups want to come in and go ahead and if they
want to write in to their RFP or their proposal that they will maintain this for ten
or fifteen years, I think we should entertain that. The County is the people of
Kauai and these are the people of Kekaha and...
Chair Furfaro: Well I appreciate.
Mr. Pleas: And if they want to do it, it's up to them.
Chair Furfaro: I appreciate what you say Bruce but let me
tell you, that's how the accounting principle is taken and let me tell you one (1)
thing about volunteers, you don't fire them, they just quit.
Mr. Pleas: They just don't show up.
Chair Furfaro: (inaudible) still there and you still got to
have it maintained.
Mr. Pleas:
Yeah and at that point...
Chair Furfaro: So I just want to share with you the
accountability, I mean I know Mr. Mickens used to work on the repair and
maintenance at Lydgate and at some point, he quit. The repair and maintenance
still have to occur and I didn't want you to restrict the scope of your project thinking
oh now we have to worry about the repair and maintenance. We get the asset on
our books, we have to carry maintenance for that facility and again I have no
more... Bruce, I'm really pleased that you stepped forward to being the Chairman; I
think you folks are doing an outstanding job. If there are no more questions, I'll
open it up to the public comments at this point. Thank you very much. Is there
anyone in the public that wishes to speak? Alice, I'll go to you first, Glenn, you can
go seconded.
(Inaudible)
Chair Furfaro: No, no... you come right up and then we'll go
to Glenn.
19
COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
ALICE PARKER: Alice Parker for the record. Good morning.
In listening to the presentations, I'm really pleased that Kekaha is going to get
benefit from the negative side of hosting the landfill all this time. What I would
suggest for notifying the public is, Bruce has a good idea with the blow horns, just
hit every street because people do listen to that and also people often are in a hurry
and have other things and they are not going to read the notices necessarily. I
would suggest artistic posters and large print in shops and things in window front
so the public know that they have access and that their input is valuable. Thank
you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you.
GLENN MICKENS: Thank you Jay. For the record Glenn
Mickens. You have a copy of my testimony. First I just want to say I completely
agree with what Mel is saying, we got a project here and it should be taken care of
by the County. You know don't be taking away money from that fund that they
have to do as what they please. I also a hundred percent agree with Jay, his
suggestion to these people and again it's their choice, no one else, his suggestion
about putting this money into a bond or a income revenue type of a fund
perpetuating whatever they want to do rather than blow it on one (1) or two (2)
different projects and it's gone. I think that's a great idea but again you know that's
a community what they want to vote on but my testimony as Lani Nakazawa said
at a previous meeting I hope we learned our lesson from spending ninety -five
thousand dollars on a consultant that we literally got nothing for our money, and I
know that was brought up now.
From what I understand, the new consultant hasn't yet been chosen for this
job so hopefully a new MO will be in place to give the community people of Kekaha
the final choice of who they want and the appropriated money will serve its purpose.
I was told that they made some specific suggestions at their meeting held on
Monday night. I hope those suggestions are firmly incorporated into the process of
selecting a new facilitator to work with them to attain their priorities as they see fit.
The entire island is looking at how the County is handling the arrangements of
letting the community decide what it wants to do with that grant which was
allocated to the community.
In my opinion this total program should be a democratic process completely
administered by the Kekaha community. They are the recipients of this grant or
gift or whatever it is called and except for informational purposes the county should
not be involved in directing where the money will go.
If I won a lottery I sure wouldn't want the government or anyone else telling
me what I have to do with the money except for paying the taxes on it. So again
the two (2) points that you bought up Jay and the other one that Mel brought up, I
thought there were excellent things. Again the money that's there, whatever
moneys, it is and a lot can be done with it, it is a lot of money. I just hope the
money will be spent as the community wants. Looking at the chart it didn't appear
from that five projects that there were five hundred to some people were quiz and I
think a couple of them had a hundred or some people that reacted to it so I'm
hoping that the community will be much better notified so they can all be really
involved. Anyway my friend Bruce and Jose, I'm sure they will do a tremendous job
down there. Thank you.
20
COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Chair Furfaro: Any questions for Glenn? Thank you Glenn,
thank you very much. Is there anyone else in the public that... Jose? Mr. Bulatao.
JOSE BULATAO: Good morning. My name is Jose Bulatao Jr.,
and I am here right now as a resident of Kekaha, I want to make that clear.
Listening to what's been presented I need to respond as a Kekaha resident with
these following points and observations for a personal point of view. At public
occasions I frequently introduced myself as the resident dinosaur of Kekaha. I am
seventy -four (74) years old, I have lived at the same house for seventy -three (73) of
those seventy -four (74) years in Kekaha and as such I have had a bird's eye view of
what goes on in my home town. As a matter of fact this afternoon I will be going
home to meet with fellow community residents to focus upon concerns and issues
that we as community residents of Kekaha will be confronting. As Beth pointed out
the work of the CAC has been quite challenging and she made a fantastic account
historically of what has occurred. The questions that have been raised by the
Councilmembers in regard to that background and that history have been so
relevant and so important but these are the things I would like you to remember,
whatever the amount is allocated to the CAC the bottom line is this, everything that
is done from the public domain or for the volunteer efforts coming from the private
sector, everything that is being done must focus on what would be to the highest
benefit of the Kekaha residents because we are so privileged to have an allocation of
public funding come to the community for us to determine how can this be best
expended from the point of view of the community residents. Whether its formal or
informal for instances, we have taken the time to survey the children of our
community because they will be the ones who will realize the benefits of whatever
we decide how that money should be spent and it was fascinating for us to see what
the children expressed about their vision...
Mr. Nakamura: Three (3) minutes Mr. Chair.
Mr. Bulatao: Their expectations, their desires and yet
perhaps from another point of view we may consider this to be invalid because they
are children and we were told that in one point in time that when we do a survey as
a for instance that they were specificities about who could respond to those surveys.
So we need to think outside the box from time to time to address what are we doing,
how are we going to accomplish what we are doing and I want you to know that
those of us from the private sector along with those who have represented the public
sector may not have agreed on everything that was placed before us but in the
process we are all trying to meet that final need that whatever was accomplished
will be for the best and highest interest of the community residents. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Jose if you could hold on for one minute,
extended both of your three (3) minutes but Mr. Rapozo has a question for you.
Mr. Bulatao: Alright.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you Mr. B for being here today. You
know you've been there all your life in Kekaha.
Mr. Bulatao: Just about.
Mr. Rapozo: Yeah. Where were you before that?
COUNCIL MEETING
Mr. Bulatao:
21
Koloa where I was born.
FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Mr. Rapozo: Yeah, okay. What is your opinion on the best
way to get to everyone, including the children because I agree with you, I think they
play a vital role in how this money should be spent, what's the best way in
Kekaha... I like the blow horn idea but you know like for my family unless they
coming at night with the blow horn which you would have people calling the cops,
we wouldn't hear it because we all work so... what's in your opinion, what's the
best...
Mr. Bulatao: Simplicity, the coconut wireless, it's who you
know.
Mr. Rapozo: That didn't work too well the last time
because there were a lot of people that did not get the message so.
Mr. Bulatao: Right.
Mr. Rapozo: I'm just trying to figure out what's the best
way to get everyone included.
Mr. Bulatao: Although they, you know it's so difficult to
get everybody to know what's going on and you can send out the blow horn and you
can coconut wireless and you can email, and you can use the telephone and all of
that and many of times a lot of people will not show up because the (inaudible)
majority precise this is a reality of life, anywhere and everywhere but they sure can
talk but nobody's around to listen. And they rely on people like me as a for instance
to do all the talking for them, I scold a lot, people who know me know what I mean
of that.
Mr. Rapozo: Yeah I do.
Mr. Bulatao: Because you were one of my former students.
Mr. Rapozo: That's right. One last question, are you on
the CAC now, are you a member of the CAC?
Mr. Bulatao: I will be until such time when I have already
indicated my desire to be excused, age has its privileges.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay, so you're not going to be on the CAC.
Mr. Bulatao: I've decided to stay a little while longer to try
to come to some resolution which I hope will, could be completed more towards the
six (6) months rather than the twelve (12).
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much Mr. Bulatao. Is there
anyone else in the... on the table that has questions for Jose or anyone in the
audience who wishes to speak? If now, I will call the meeting back to order.
22
COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as
follows:
Chair Furfaro: It is the hope of and intent of the Council as
we had this discussion we can continue discussion amongst ourselves but I hope to
receive this item and wish the CAC the very best in their continued activity. Is
there anymore discussion here Mr. Chang?
Mr. Chang: Thank you Chair, I just want to thank
everybody for coming this morning and thank the CAC members. Mr. Bulatao said
he was going to stay awhile and I do understand that Glenn Molander would be
leaving soon, so I'm sure we've got some qualified people within the neighborhood
that would like to step in and fill in the shoes but I do want to take this opportunity
to thank Bruce Pleas. Bruce, we know you understand the process and we want to
thank you. I hear very, very, very good positive things about the directions and we
say that seriously because if you want to plan to do two (2) meetings a month, we're
fast tracking, we want to make sure it's for the benefit of Kekaha; we want to get
that moving. I do want to thank, I believe prior to you it was Randy Hee, so I want
to make sure that we share our aloha to Randy Hee and I do understand that
Mr. Thomas Nizo stepped in place, well known out there in the Westside in Kekaha
and I understand he's already been very, very proactive. So I just wanted to share
our aloha, our, to Mr. Randy Hee and thank you to Mr. Glenn Molander and of
course to Jose Bulatao, he mentioned and introduced himself as a resident of
Kekaha but he is the active Vice Chair at this time. Special aloha out and special
aloha out to Glenn Molander also, thank you Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me Mr. Chair when I recognized you
I was hoping you were making a motion to receive and then we can get a seconded.
Mr. Chang: Oh I beg your pardon.
Chair Furfaro: Oh we have one already? Oh I'm asleep at
the switch, we evidently already have that motion, so you were fine. Mr. Kawakami.
Mr. Kawakami: Thank you Mr. Chair. I think we identified a
big challenge that we all face with as far as decision making. A good question was
posed as to what is the most effective way to get the word out and I think that's
something that we're challenged with all the time but the relatively and I think the
CAC is going to find out, that a very relatively small percentage of people are going
to actually show up even if they know that this is on the agenda and the complaints
will come after the decision making is done and this is evident by looking at how
many registered voters actually turn out to vote and yet how many complaints we
have as to the inefficiencies or shortcomings of our elected officials. So it poses the
fundamental question and I don't know if there's an answer as to what's the best
way to get the message out, I think we need to ask how do we entice people to
attend these meetings, and how can we get creative with that? And you know
KIUC became criticized a lot for having all the extravagant ceremonial purposes of
their annual meeting, but there was a purpose for that and that was actually
mandated by NRACA because in some rural communities they're faced with the
same challenges is how do you get members of the public to come out. So for CAC
members if you guys are looking for more community involvement, I think you need
to somehow get more creative as to answering that question, okay what can we
provide that will get people interested and I know for us and it may sound silly but
23
COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
it's usually food. I mean I agree with you guys, you know the community, this is
your chance to take the ball and get rolling with this project but that seems to be a
big challenge. If we're trying to find out how we can get more involvement, I think
you guys need to ask that question and have some kind of idea. Mahalo Mr. Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you Mr. Kawakami. Is there anyone
else before I call for the vote?
The motion to receive C 2011 -55 for the record was then put, and unanimously
carried.
Chair Furfaro: We can go to the next item Mr. Clerk.
Mr. Nakamura: On page one (1) of the Council's agenda;
we're on items for receipt, communication C 2011 -56 and communication C 2011 -57.
C 2011 -56 Communication (1/14/2011) from the Director of Finance,
transmitting for Council information, the Period 1 -5 Financial Reports — Statement
of Revenues as of November 30, 2010, pursuant to Section 21 of the Operating
Budget Ordinance (B- 2010 -705): Mr. Rapozo moved to receive C 2011 -56 for the
record, seconded by Ms. Yukimura, and unanimously carried.
C 2011 -57 Communication (1/3/2011) from the Chief of the Building
Division, Department of Public Works, transmitting for Council information, the
Building Permit Information Reports for December 2010:
(1) Building Permit Processing Report
(2) Building Permit Estimated Value Summary
(3) Building Permits Tracking Report
(4) Building Permits Status
Mr. Rapozo moved to receive C 2011 -57 for the record, seconded by Ms. Yukimura,
and unanimously carried.
Chair Furfaro: We'll go to the next page.
Mr. Nakamura: On page two (2) of the Council's agenda, an
item for receipt is C 2011 -58.
C 2011 -58 Communication (1/21/2011) from the Mayor, transmitting for
Council consideration and confirmation the following appointees to the various
Boards and Commissions for the County of Kauai:
(1) Civil Service Commission
John Low — term ending 12/31/2013
(2) Planning Commission
Wayne Katayama — term ending 12/31/2013
Herman Texeira — term ending 12/31/2013
Mr. Rapozo moved to receive C 2011 -58 for the record, seconded by Mr. Bynum.
Chair Furfaro: Can I extend that motion by asking to
schedule those interviews?
Mr. Rapozo: Sure I can make a motion to receive, have
the interviews been?
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Chair Furfaro:
Mr. Rapozo:
No.
Okay, with interviews to follow.
Chair Furfaro: That's what I'm asking. Thank you. Is there
anyone that would like to speak on this? If not, all those in favor to receive this
item with scheduling interviews?
The motion to receive C 2011 -58 for the record was then put, and unanimously
carried.
Chair Furfaro: Next item Mr. Clerk.
Mr. Nakamura: Next matter for receipt is communication
C 2011 -59.
C 2011 -59 Communication (1/18/2010) from the County Auditor,
transmitting for Council information a memorandum stating that he will be
engaging consultant services which will be paid from the FY 2010 -2011 Office of the
County Auditor's Consultant Services allocation at an estimated cost of
approximately $25,000.00. The consultant will perform investigations of fraud,
illegal acts, violations or provisions or contracts or grant agreements, or abuse
reported or discovered during audits, starting with performance audits and pre -
audits included in the FY 2010 -2011 Audit Work Plan: Mr. Bynum moved to receive
C 2011 -59, seconded by Mr. Rapozo.
Chair Furfaro: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
speak on this? Mr. Mickens.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Mr. Mickens: Thank you again Jay. For the record Glenn
Mickens. You have a copy of my testimony, it's short. Please let me read it for the
record. Since our Auditor has this twenty -five thousand dollars in his budget I hope
that there will be no problem in the Council's receiving it. I only say this since I
have watched Ernie quizzed so many times about the ninety thousand dollars he
needed for an Audit Analyst and a clerical person to get his office up and running.
Ninety thousand that the administration cut from his budget or he wouldn't have
needed the money bill.
In my opinion Ernie has gone above and beyond his mandate to be our
Auditor. He has gotten information from other island auditors about the way they
conduct their offices, including the office of the best in the state, Marion Higa.
I am hopeful that the waste and inefficiency he finds in the operation of our
government will more than pay for what he and his staff are being paid. Remember
that seven (7) or eight (8) years ago our Council appropriated five hundred thousand
dollars for a performance audit and for lack of four (4) votes it was never done. Now
that we have an auditor, hopefully this type of inaction will never happen again and
I have every confidence that with Ernie at the helm the job will get done. Thank
you Jay.
25
COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Any questions of Mr. Mickens?
Seeing none, thank you Glenn. Is there anyone else in the audience that wants to
speak on this item? If not, I'm going to call the meeting back to order.
There being no one else to speak on this matter, the meeting was called back to
order, and proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: Members, I am looking for the appropriate
motion to receive this? We have a motion, okay. And is there any discussion on this
item from members? If not, we have a motion and a seconded, all those in favor?
The motion to receive C 2011 -59 for the record was then put, and unanimously
carried.
Chair Furfaro: Next item Mr. Clerk.
Mr. Nakamura: Next matter for receipt is communication
C 2011 -60.
C 2011 -60 Communication (1/24/2011) from Councilmember Kawakami,
transmitting for Council consideration an amendment to Chapter 23 of the Kauai
County Code 1987, as amended, relating to Regulation of Business and Trades,
specifically to Sec. 23 -3.4 that pertain to The Sunshine Market: Mr. Rapozo moved
to receive C 2011 -60 for the record, seconded by Ms. Yukimura.
Chair Furfaro: Is there anyone in the audience who wishes
to speak on this item? I'll suspend the rules, Ken come right on up.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
KEN TAYLOR: Good morning Chair, members of the
Council, my name is Ken Taylor. While I'm not opposed to value added items at the
market, I do have some concerns as to why this is being done. Before, people that
have eggs, quail eggs, or honey are not being allowed at the markets and I think
that this is the time with this amendment to Sunshine Markets that eggs, quail
eggs and honey should also be added, as well as value added. As far as further the
last paragraph of section (b) of the first page where definition, I think it should also
require value added products shall contain not less than fifty percent of raw egg
ingredients, commodities or ingredients. The way I read this as it is written, if I
make a cake and throw a few nuts from my tree in there, it could be a value added
product and so I would say value added has to be at least fifty percent ingredients
and not less than that, maybe even more but not less than fifty percent. On page
three (3) of the document item number seven (7) where it talks about insurance and
I think in the second line, second or third line where one million dollars naming the
County of Kauai as additional insured party of the policy and with the thirty day
cancelation notice so that again as this is written, I can take out an insurance policy
and cancel it after thirty days and next year just before I have to renew my permit,
I can go and get another policy and come back with a thirty day cancelation notice.
The insurance company if I go into and cancel my insurance, the insurance company
has to give you a thirty day notice before they can cut the insurance and I think
that's a very important part of this aspect so those are my comments. I do hope
that you'll add eggs, quail eggs and honey because we do have producers on the
26
COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
island that produce those products and currently as I understand it, they cannot
sell at the market. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Any questions for Ken? No, thank you. Is
there anyone else in the audience that would like to speak on this matter? For a
moment I see two (2) County Attorneys in the office, I just want to reconfirm the
process of co- insurance for vendors, can Mauna Kea come up for just a second?
MAUNA KEA TRASK: Aloha Chair, Deputy County Attorney
Mauna Kea Trask.
Chair Furfaro: I just want to clarify for our policy on
co- insured, would we have somebody that identifies that county for whatever
purpose is being co- insured when they pay the sub premium it's really to add them
to their existing insurance policy naming us coinsured, we keep those in file and
then if they terminate their insurance the insurance company is required to
immediately notify us, is that?
Mr. Trask: It's my understanding, correct.
Chair Furfaro: Could we make sure we get some
clarification on that?
Mr. Trask: I will.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much. Is there anyone else
that wants to? No. Okay I'll call this meeting back to order.
There being no one else to speak on this matter, the meeting was called back to
order, and proceeded as follows:
The motion to receive C 2011 -60 for the record was then put, and unanimously
carried.
Chair Furfaro: I would like to see a show of hands of how
many are here for the next item which is a draft of the plastic bill amendment, if
you don't mind then, we're going to need to take a ten (10) minute recess, when we
come back I'd like to take the one (1) item for Po`ipu Beach and then we'll go right to
your item. We're on a ten (10) minute recess, thank you very much.
There being no objections, the Council recessed at 10:45 a.m.
The Council reconvened at 10:57 a.m., and proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro:
read the first item?
We're back from recess, Mr. Clerk can you
Mr. Nakamura: Mr. Chair, we're on page two (2) of the
Council's agenda on communication C 2011 -63.
C 2011 -63 Communication (1/13/2011) from the Director of the Office of
Economic Development, requesting Council approval to receive and expend
$50,000.00 from the Po`ipu Beach Foundation Inc., The funding was raised by its
N
K �I i J �� [ � E R T [ �7 �T I � 1 �► [
FEBRUARY 9, 2011
members to help fund the Po`ipu Beach Restoration Study for Po`ipu Beach Park
and will be used by the County to help satisfy the requirements to the Hawaii
Tourism Authority (HTA) Grant, additional required funding will come from the
Department of Parks and Recreation: Mr. Rapozo moved to approve C 2011 -63,
seconded by Ms. Yukimura.
Chair Furfaro: On that note ladies I'm going to suspend the
rules so you can have the floor, please introduce yourself starting now.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
NALANI BRUN: My name is Nalani Brun, I'm from the Office
of Economic Development, the Tourism Specialist and we're actually here today
regarding a project that we're doing out at Po`ipu which is basically studying the
Po`ipu area and why were we losing sand in some areas. We had safety issues
among other things and so the County see fit to that this was an important project
that we needed to fix up, this was quite awhile ago. When the funding came before
the Council, the Council asked could you look for partners every so often and I'm
happy to say that we actually did find wonderful partners, we usually do in Po`ipu,
the Po`ipu Beach Foundation, they came up with funding of fifty thousand and the
Hawaii Tourism also came up with another seventy -five thousand for this large
study that we're doing that is lasting about a year, it started last October and will
go to about the end of this year. This is Jody from the Po`ipu Beach Foundation and
Beach Resort Association.
JODY KJELDSEN: Jody Kjeldsen, Po`ipu Beach Resort
Association and Foundation and I'm just here to, I want to acknowledge the Council
and the Office of Economic Development and Parks and Recreation for making
beach nourishment in Po`ipu a priority. It's a vital component to our visitor
industry there, as well as to our resident community, and I also wanted to make
note that we did raise the fifty thousand dollars as requested by the County and
this in large part came from Stacy Wong and the Knudsen Trust and the Knudsen
family. We were a little daunted by the task of raising fifty thousand dollars
initially and Stacy Wong and the Trust came forward and said that they would
donate twenty -five thousand dollars to this project if our members and the rest of
the community came up with matching funds in the amount of twenty -five and they
did. Between the business community as well as the resident community, they
made up the additional twenty -five thousand. So I did want to acknowledge not
only the members of the South shore but Stacy Wong and the Knudsen Trust and
Knudsen Family. He was here but had to leave.
Chair Furfaro: May I ask Jody the relationship between
Po`ipu Beach Resort Association and the Po`ipu Foundation, is the Resort
Association members of the foundation?
Ms. Kjeldsen: The Po`ipu Beach Foundation is a member of
the Association... Well they're two (2) separate entities, one is a 5016 and the
Association is 501c6, so one is corporate and one is non - profit.
Chair Furfaro: But either are members of the same?
Ms. Kjeldsen: Yes. So I represent both.
28
COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Members, any questions on
upcoming contribution? Mr. Chang then Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Chang: Thank you Chair. Can you give us status of
the sandbar?
Ms. Kjeldsen: The sandbar is still currently there. The
beach nourishment comes in three (3) phases and the first phase was to place four
hundred and ninety -nine cubic yards of sand on the beach and that will happen end
o£.. or by May 1 we believe and that should help until we figure out what should be
in the long run.
Mr. Chang: I just wanted to comment because it was
gone for a long time and the currents were really, really treacherous. It was
something very different from what we saw in Po`ipu because everything started to
drag very treacherously toward the Marriott, so I know that there was a strong
current. So I'm happy that that's back and I just want to thank you all for your
persistency because I remember during my first term a few months later I went
with our Public Works Chair Tim Bynum and I was all go -go we get um, and the
dates kept going from here, from here, from here and Councilmember Bynum
actually pat me on the shoulder and said I appreciate your enthusiasm but
sometimes things take a little bit longer than expected. So hearing May 1 is really
a good date to once again circle and hopefully sooner than later and I hope we can
stick to that target but congratulations and thank you for being persistent. I did
know that you were waiting for Stacy Wong, he came in, and Mr. Wong had to leave
but thank you for acknowledging the Knudsen Trust and thank you to all your
partners for making this a reality and we look forward to once again revisiting
Po`ipu Beach, thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: Hi Nalani, hi Jody thanks for coming here.
It's good news and thank you very much to the Po`ipu Beach Resort Association and
the Knudsen Trust for stepping up with fifty thousand dollars and but there's the
Po`ipu Beach Resort Association has also contributed other funds towards this
project, could you kind of give me a little synopsis of that?
Ms. Kjeldsen: Sure. As mentioned earlier, this project has
three (3) phases. The first phase which is the four hundred and ninety -nine cubic
yards of sand, we were asked by the County to partner in a way of assisting with
the washing and sifting of the sand and I think that it came in the amount about
twelve thousand dollars and that was not paid for a fundraiser, that was directly
from the Po`ipu Beach Foundation.
Mr. Bynum: Thank you for that. I'm going to have some
comments when we call the meeting back to order because this has been a long haul
and just for the people in the public to understand what the steps are and where we
go next and why, why we're doing this. Why are we doing this study but I'll save
those comments.
Chair Furfaro: Councilwoman Yukimura.
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Ms. Yukimura: What a great example of teamwork and
partnerships, County, Po`ipu Beach Resort Association Foundation Developers like
Knudsen Trust and Parks and Recreations, that's great. I'm sorry, you said there
were three (3) phases one was the four hundred ninety -nine thousand cubic yards
replenishment that is like a holding action until you figure out the cause or...
Ms. Kjeldsen: It's like a band aid until we figure out what
we should do in a long run.
Ms. Yukimura: Like a band aid, okay. And then there was
sifting /washing of the sands before you put it on?
Ms. Kjeldsen:
before March 1.
Right and that the sand that will be placed
Ms. Yukimura: Okay and then the other phase is the other
phase is the one that you're funding in terms of a study to try to actually find a long
term solution to the problem by identifying the cause?
Ms. Kjeldsen: Right. We have another six thousand
square, six thousand cubic yards of sand available to us, so that would be phase two
(2) and what we would do with that amount of sand is to help nourish the beach in
Po`ipu. Phase three (3) is really what this money is going towards, the fifty
thousand dollars is going towards the long term study.
Ms. Yukimura: I'm sorry, what was the last phase?
Ms. Kjeldsen: The fifty thousand dollars is going towards
the long term study of the area, the shoreline between Brennecke's and the
Sheraton to figure out one (1) where the sand is going, how it can be replenished,
and also to look for other sources of sand particularly sources off shore.
Ms. Yukimura: Right, because in Waikiki they did quite an
exemplary project where they took the sands from under the waters and pumped it
on to the shoreline which was much more cost effective I think.
Ms. Kjeldsen: Absolutely.
Ms. Yukimura: Than trucking it from miles by land.
Ms. Kjeldsen: And for the health of the beach, it's probably
a better choice as well.
Ms. Yukimura: I see because the sand is similar in... okay
thank you very much for the explanation.
Chair Furfaro: One of the things that you should know
about Waikiki though, Councilwoman, is the sand in the winter that comes off shore
at Waikiki actually comes from Molokai, it crosses the channel.
Ms. Yukimura: Really.
30
COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Chair Furfaro:
time from the North western coast.
Waikiki in Sheraton and also being th
e
Ms. Yukimura:
Chair Furfaro:
Mr. Bynum:
call the meeting back to order.
And that's why there's a piece in the winter
I know that from being a hotel manager in
manager of Sheraton Molokai.
Ali, nature is amazing.
Nature is amazing. Thank you. Mr. Bynum.
I was going to save comments for when we
Chair Furfaro: Okay, he's going to save comments after the
meeting. Ladies thank you very much; we also want to thank any other
contributors that are encouraged by this next step in design and action. So thank
you very much. Is there anybody in the audience who would want to speak while
the rules are suspended? Hearing none, I'll call the meeting back to order.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as
follows:
Chair Furfaro: Anyone have any further comments?
Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: This is a project that's been in the making
for a very long time and so I'm going to kind of go into fast forward mode because I
want anybody in the public who's paying attention to this to have some sense of
history of this. Beaches are our economic engine and if you think about Po`ipii
Beach, it's an awesome beach, we all love going there... there's really not much
beach at Po`ipu Beach and it has experienced a lot of erosion over the last ten (10)
years. I have some very dramatic pictures of the boardwalk right after it was built
in front of Kiahuna and then what it looked like just eight (8) or ten (10) years later.
That boardwalk has been removed because of erosion. I just want to do a brief thing
about this history and say where we are going and it is a great public /private
partnership so far. The... years ago the State donated twenty -five thousand cubic
yards of sand to the county, was stock piled in Kekaha for the intent of recreation
and beach nourishment. Sat there for a very long time and Po`ipu Beach Resort
Association has had a sand committee for many years now because they know that
that's the economic engine and we have to protect the beach. Sand was set aside,
then a couple of years ago Public Works announced that they were going to move
the sand to Wailua and that got the attention of the Po`ipu Beach Resort
Association saying hey we're supposed to do beach nourishment with that sand and
there was some pilot projects to do that. We found that that sand had a tendency to
cake up that's why it's necessary to wash it and make sure that it's appropriate for
beach nourishment, and thanks for stepping up with funds to do that. Even though
that twenty -five thousand cubic yard... we learned that sand is a very valuable
commodity, that most of that sand is going to be used in the Kekaha landfill
expansion even though the executive order from the State said that is was for
recreation, and Po`ipn Beach Resort Association and some Councilmembers were
saying wait that wasn't the intention, and so we have reserved seven thousand
cubic yards to make sure that that was for that purpose and it's been a long haul as
it is from Kekaha. You know and then it comes into the planning issues, you know
this Council passed a landmark bill to make sure that future development has set
back adequately from the coastline because the best thing to do is to let nature take
31
COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
its course in the ocean front but human beings like to build their buildings really
close to the shoreline and in Po`ipu we have very valuable resorts that are very close
to the shoreline. If we had to do it all over again we would probably set them back
further but so then what is that choices leave us when the sea starts to encroach
which is a naturally occurring process which may be accelerating by global
warming, that's a controversial thing... but you know what are the choices that we
have left? Often the choices have been well these buildings are too valuable so we
harden the shoreline and in the process lose the beach or we can abandon those
buildings and move them back and for economic reasons that's probably not going to
happen and so not the best choice but a choice is beach nourishment. The idea of
bringing sand and keeping the beach sandy and as a strong buffer and to protect
those buildings, it's not a perfect solution. As I said this Council has the wisdom to
say future development has to be set back further but it is the best solution
especially when the ocean and the beach is your economic engine. In Florida, in the
Gulf Coast beach nourishment...
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me Mr. Bynum on that note I need to
point out something to you and hope you can summarize... the agenda item here is
the funding for... and the design for them... if you could... if you could... I
understand your willingness to go through the history but if you start making other
comparison with coastal towns and so forth, we can put a new agenda item on the
floor if you would like. I would like to make certain that we're staying close to the
funding issue. That's the agenda item. And those are the rules, just speaking with
you folks as those are the rules.
Mr. Bynum: This is to fund...
Chair Furfaro: You know we... Excuse me, I have the floor.
Mr. Bynum: I think you took that floor.
Chair Furfaro: Because of the error we have here. Now I'm
asking if you could summarize a little bit more and I would appreciate it.
Mr. Bynum: I'll continue. We were talking about a
funding proposal to do a study on beach nourishment, I'm talking about beach
nourishment so the point I was trying to make is beach nourishment is essential for
the State of Hawaii. It's being done at Waikiki, obviously the premier beach in
terms of economic engine and another premier beach for... is Po`ipu Beach and so
what this study does is to look at the off shore sand resources of the sand that came
from that area that we know that will be compatible to look at where that sand is
available so rather than trucking it for miles and having to wash it and go through
all of this process, that we can set up an apparatus that pumps that sand back onto
the beach where it came from in the beginning and it's expansive but when you set
up that apparatus you can move very large volumes of sand and not too long sense
of a time.
Chair Furfaro: Councilwoman Yukimura, I'm going to turn
the meeting over to you.
Chair Furfaro relinquished his Chairmanship over to Council Vice Chair Yukimura.
32
COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Mr. Bynum: So this has been a long time coming and it's
going to take a while to get there, but imagine Po`ipu Beach with no beach because
that's possible. We know that the erosion causes the tombola there which is that
sand bridge out to Nukumoi point, I think it is right... you know that when that
went away our lifeguard started having rescues in different areas and it really was
a safety factor too so economic security for our visitor industry, safety for our
residents and visitors who use the ocean and a storm (inaudible) that keeps us from
going to more dramatic things like seawalls which we know cause a degradation of
the natural processes so I am thrilled, I've been trying to promote this idea of doing
this study for at least five (5) years and to bring it to the point where the contract is
out, the study is going to be started soon and it will give us the day that we know to
be good stewards of the ocean to address our economic realities and our needs to
protect the coastline and to do that in a way that's environmentally sound and
appropriate. So I'm very much appreciate the partnership of the visitor industry in
this endeavor, it's a win -win situation for the community and for the environment
and for... and you know I guess a more radical position would be well let's just get
rid of the resorts, I don't think that's going to happen on our political climate, so
beach nourishment is the best option that we have in my opinion. Thank you very
much.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you Councilmember. Any other
discussion on this matter? If not, I believe there a motion...
Mr. Nakamura: There is a motion Vice Chair to approve.
Ms. Yukimura: To approve and a seconded, so if there's no
further discussion all those in favor.
The motion to approve C 2011 -63 was then put, and unanimously carried.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you very much Jody, Nalani and all of
those who were involved. Next item please.
Mr. Nakamura: At this time Vice Chair, we're on page two (2)
of the Council's agenda on communication for receipt communication C 2011 -61.
C 2011 -61 Communication (1/24/2011) from Councilmember Rapozo,
transmitting for Council consideration an amendment to Article 19, Chapter 22
of the Kauai County Code 1987, as amended, relating to Plastic Bag Reduction:
Mr. Rapozo moved to receive C 2011 -61 for the record, seconded by Chang.
Mr. Kawakami was noted as recused from this item.
Council Vice Chair Yukimura returned the gavel to Chair Furfaro.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. So I assume Mr. Kawakami
recused himself.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: You'll be providing us something in writing?
Mr. Kawakami: Yes.
33
COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Chair Furfaro: Okay, thank you. So we have read the bill?
Ms. Yukimura: We have read the communication, we're not
on the bill, we're on the communication but I think it was your intention Chair to
allow testimony?
Chair Furfaro: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: On the communication.
Chair Furfaro: That's correct because there are people that
need to get back to work. On that note I'm going to suspend the rules for the
purpose of taking testimony.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Chair Furfaro: I believe Martina, Chef if you would like to
come up first? For the rest of you the Clerk will read your names as you signed up.
MARTINA HILLDORFOR: Good morning Honorable Chair,
Councilmembers, my name is Chef Martina Hilldorfor. I am an assistant professor
at the University of Hawaii, Kauai Community College Culinary Arts Program, I
am its program coordinator. I am a certified instructor proctor for a recognized
sanitation class; nationally recognized sanitation class called Serve Safe. I also
represent all the members of the American Culinary Federation Kauai Chapter.
This a Nationally recognized association of Chefs in the United States. I have been
in the past an Executive Chef for Starwood Hotel and Resorts. I too, sir, served in
Molokai. My experience with the restaurant industry is well documented. I would
like to see this bill banning the use of plastic bags to be amended to exclude food
service establishments for sanitation reasons. As Chefs dealing with takeout food,
we encourage the use of single use plastic or corn based products, single use cups,
single use silverware, single use platters, etc... it would be okay to use a
biodegradable compostable, corn or bagasse or potato base plastic bag with a
minimum of petroleum base product in there. So therefore I believe the Council
should seriously consider this amendment for the safety of the people of Kauai.
Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Chef, we have questions for you.
Ms. Hilldorfor: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you Chef for being here today.
Ms. Hilldorfor: Thank you.
Mr. Rapozo: I have not spoken to you prior to this...
Ms. Hilldorfor: No sir.
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Mr. Rapozo: Okay. I didn't realize that you had so many
credentials in that area so I appreciate you coming by. You know one of the...
because I gotten a lot of emails opposing the amendment and one of the common
theme is really that I'm taking this County backwards and that in fact there is very
little possibility of transfer of bacteria from a reusable bag even though the studies
say they do. In your professional opinion because I will consider you an expert
today.
Ms. Hilldorfor: Thank you sir.
Mr. Rapozo: Is the potential of cross contamination real?
Ms. Hilldorfor: Absolutely sir. I teach certified classes, I
teach sanitation classes at the college. The first thing I teach my students is you
must change your clothes every day, you will get food on your clothes at room
temperature... we're in the danger zone. Bacteria love to live in this temperature.
Bacteria need several things to exist... food, acidity, time, temperature, oxygen,
moisture... they have already the food, they have the time and temperature;
therefore, harmful pathogens, disease causing microorganisms can exist on cloth.
They don't exist on stainless steel, they don't exist on plastic, there's no moisture
there but they will exist on cloth. If my students leave their uniform or apron in the
car overnight as many of the people of Kauai will leave their reusable bag in the car
or in the kitchen or maybe even take them into a public restroom, there's ample
opportunity for bacteria to contaminate food, the same with recycled cardboard
boxes. There's no such thing as a bathroom for birds and geckos and as they fly
through the air or walk across cardboard they will contaminate it with salmonella.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you very much.
Ms. Hilldorfor: You're welcome.
Chair Furfaro: Councilwoman Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes, thank you very much for being here.
It's important of us to know this information that you have. You said it's okay to
use... can you repeat that line again?
Ms. Hilldorfor: A recyclable.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes.
Ms. Hilldorfor: Compostable, corn, bagassse, or potato
based... you know organically based plastic bag with a minimum amount of
petroleum polymers.
Ms. Yukimura:
Ms. Hilldorfor:
paper.
Ms. Yukimura:
said that the sentence before.
Okay.
They degrade. They degrade faster than
And what doesn't work is what? I think you
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Ms. Hilldorfor: A recyclable bag, a recyclable non- single use
bag, especially a cloth bag.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay and that's because you say cloth versus
plastic or stainless steel allows bacteria...
Ms. Hilldorfor: It will allow bacterial growth, yes.
Ms. Yukimura: So that...
Ms. Hilldorfor: That's why surgeons change clothes during
surgery because they don't reuse the cloth, they wash it each time. I challenge
anybody in this room to tell me that they wash their recycle bag after each use.
Ms. Yukimura:
Ms. Hilldorfor:
Ms. Yukimura:
Ms. Hilldorfor:
Ms. Yukimura:
Ms. Hilldorfor:
Ms. Yukimura:
Ms. Hilldorfor:
Ms. Yukimura:
when it's in such a container...
No, I don't think that happens.
Okay.
So when the food is put into a bag.
Yes.
It's already in a Styrofoam.
Yes it is.
Or aluminum or plastic container.
Yes.
So what is the probability of contamination
Ms. Hilldorfor: Let's go to lunch and we're going to order
beef stew, we're going to order gi and we're going to order coconut curry, three (3)
choice with rice, and we're going to close the lid of our Styrofoam container and we
put it on the seat of our car or on the carpet of our car or in our recycle bag on the
seat of our car, we're not level... all that liquid is going to run out of the Styrofoam
container into the bag causing contamination.
Ms. Yukimura: In the bag.
Ms. Hilldorfor: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: But.
Ms. Hilldorfor: When you take the food out of the bag.
Ms. Yukimura: Yeah.
Ms. Hilldorfor: The germs remain in the bag, take that bag
tomorrow to the plate lunch place, we order again, liquid comes out, you touch the
liquid with your hands, you eat your lunch, and you're ingesting bacteria.
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Ms. Yukuimura: Okay. So it's in the touching of the bag that
get's...
Ms. Hilldorfor: And the contamination of the existing
pathogens in the bag can return into the containers.
Ms. Yukimura:
Okay.
Ms. Hilldorfor: And people are not cautious, nobody here has
taken a serve safe class, nobody here has been trained in that. Most of the people in
Kauai don't know that that sort of contamination exist and how to prevent it, that
education hasn't been provided to them so they're unaware that that contamination
is happening. Then they get a food borne illness or there's a food borne illness
outbreak, is it their fault... absolutely not, it's the restaurant made me sick, the
plate lunch made me sick. Not that I had a filthy dirty bag.
Ms. Yukimura: And do you know... I mean...
Ms. Hilldorfor: No, go please. I'm used to questions; I have a
ton of students.
Ms. Yukimura: Good, thank you. So what the probabilities
or the statistics on food contaminated illnesses on Kauai?
Ms. Hilldorfor:
have not researched it.
I have no knowledge of that at this time. I
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Alright thank you so much for being
here.
Ms. Hilldorfor: You're welcome. And please if you ever get a
chance, you can always sit in in one of my classes, aloha.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Chef?
Ms. Hilldorfor: Yes sir.
Chair Furfaro: I have a question for you. In reality though
bacteria exist in everything... I mean even the seats we sit on here, if I don't get the
same seat, I'm getting somebody else's arm rest and somebody else's contaminants.
Bacteria exist in the world.
Ms. Hilldorfor: Germs are everywhere, they're even in the
air we breathe; however, there are beneficial bacteria and harmful bacteria. These
bacteria are known as pathogens and once again they need certain things to grow...
food, time, temperature, oxygen, moisture. There's no moisture here, there's no
moisture here... pathogens probably will not grow on this surface, there's no way for
them to get a hold of things. In recyclable bag, you have the moisture of the food
plus you have the time and temperature in the car, in the kitchen, etc...
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Chair Furfaro:
Ms. Hilldorfor:
I see.
So that's where it grows.
Chair Furfaro: Understood. I mean I went to the same food
science class...
Ms. Hilldorfor: That's right you did.
Chair Furfaro: Forty (40) year ago...
Ms. Hilldorfor: It's still the same.
Chair Furfaro: It's still the same, they haven't changed... I
mean salmonella exist; you need to get food to a freezing point...
Ms. Hilldorfor:
Exactly.
Chair Furfaro:
You need to get food to a boiling point.
Ms. Hilldorfor:
Right.
Chair Furfaro:
You have to wash your cutting boards.
Ms. Hilldorfor:
Right.
Chair Furfaro: All of those... which are all of the
responsibilities of the food operation.
Ms. Hilldorfor: Right, once it leaves the food service
operation, however, that's why you have all the little signs on the chicken, watch
the temperature, etc...
Chair Furfaro: And I understand that but the reality is
there are options, chicken curry can be put in a bowl with a lid.
Ms. Hilldorfor: Ah.
Chair Furfaro: Two (2) once gravy for roast pork can be put
in a two (2) once cup.
Ms. Hilldorfor: Absolutely.
Chair Furfaro: I just wanted to say it's all of our
responsibility but...
Ms. Hilldorfor: Now you change your plate lunch from
putting it in a three (3) compartment container to additional plastic containers that
fill up the landfill. You put your chicken curry gravy in another plastic container
that fills up the landfill and geeze as a restaurant owner, sir, isn't there another
cost involved? Now do we pass that cost unto the consumer or do we absorb that
cost for...
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Chair Furfaro: I don't think you want to challenge me on
cost of food, cost of service utensils and so forth...
Ms. Hilldorfor: Right.
Chair Furfaro: What we're dealing with here is this question
about cross contamination.
Ms. Hilldorfor: Okay.
Chair Furfaro: And I believe there are other ways, Chef,
that we can take some precaution. Now it starts obviously with some question
about what's going in our landfill, the conveniences versus the potential cross
contamination and I have looked at some food statistics with the Health
Department that indicate there is a very small risk but it's about educating the
population and how to handle food service... no different than those wonderful
students that you share with about the whole process with salmonella, people don't
even know... you could actually come up with food poisoning as far as seventy -two
(72) hours in advance because the bacteria depending on what the temperature was
held, when it was last wiped, when the counter, the cutting board... you know it's
all around a lot of information that's dealing with this. I appreciate your
testimony.
Ms. Hilldorfor: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: But I want to say that I am very cautious
about the concern that the reputation could damage a restaurant because it can.
Ms. Hilldorfor: It can.
Chair Furfaro: It can, I agree with that.
Ms. Hilldorfor: And earlier in my statement I did say that
the public did need to be educated in cross contamination.
Chair Furfaro: I heard you clearly on that.
Ms. Hilldorfor: Thank you sir.
Chair Furfaro: Is there anybody else have questions for
Chef? Yes.
Mr. Chang: Thank you Chair. Chef Hilldorfor, thank you
for being here. Very interesting, you made reference to the reusable cloth bags.
Ms. Hilldorfor: Yes.
Mr. Chang: So now we have these reusable paper bags.
Ms. Hilldorfor: Yes.
Mr. Chang: Paper bags.
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Ms. Hilldorfor: Yes.
Mr. Chang: Recyclable, excuse me... recyclable but you
want to reuse them but they don't work, you cannot reuse them... so you mention
the gravy and you know I'm glad you mentioned the car seat is this way or even if
you put it on the floor there's a speed bump, pot hole what have you... but it does
come out, especially with extra gravy on the rice or what have you... so the paper
bag... can you explain to us because I've tried it and it's happened to me but it
seems as those the gravy, the sauces, the shoyu you know it has this slimy or it's a
little greasy or what have you but it seems that that breaks down the paper bags
that we're using very, very quickly and I'm sure that when you talk about
salmonella or bacteria that same effect is with a paper bag as it would be with a
reusable...
Ms. Hilldorfor: Well as a consumer if you see reusable on it
you take it home you have gravy, juice, you have a little bit of grease in there, you're
going to reuse the bag, you might leave it on the counter let it dry out four (4), five
(5) hours fold it up, the pathogens still exist and once again there is a direct cost to
the restaurant owner, there's a huge cost to the restaurant owner to use those bags.
Mr. Chang: Because I just wanted to state from my
experience when the gravy or the juices or what have you moves around the corners
of the bag seems to be the one that breaks the quickest.
Ms. Hilldorfor:
Yes.
Mr. Chang: And I said it that I had an apple, I didn't
throw an apple into the bag, I dropped it and it went right through.
Ms. Hilldorfor: Right through, yes.
Mr. Chang: And so for everybody you know, the weight of
the apple is five (5) or six (6) or seven (7) or eight (8) times than a plate lunch.
Ms. Hilldorfor: Right.
Mr. Chang: And I've been told of horror stories...
Ms. Hilldorfor: Yeah, you lose your plate lunch.
Mr. Chang: And I think a lot of it has to do with in the
old days that people remember the bags when we used to go to the grocery bags, we
used to carry the bags this way.
Ms. Hilldorfor:
Yeah.
Mr. Chang: And now we have makeshift handles and I
think because the weight you know just because you're holding the handle and
everything pushes down, that within minutes... breaks.
Ms. Hilldorfor: Yeah breaks. And I'd hate to lose mine and
JoAnn's sixteen dollars ($16.00) worth of plate lunch because of a wet paper bag.
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Mr. Chang:
Ms. Hilldorfor:
and Councilmembers, aloha.
Chair Furfaro:
Okay thank you.
Thank you and thank you honorable Chair
You're off to work?
Ms. Hilldorfor: In a few minutes, I want to hear...
Chair Furfaro: Okay.
Mr. Nakamura: Next speaker...
Chair Furfaro: Councilwoman Yukimura did you have
another question of Chef?
Ms. Yukimura: Just a comment to the Chef that by being
here you have helped us do some public education and to sanitation, thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you Councilwoman. Who's the next
speaker please?
Mr. Nakamura: Next speaker is Pat Gegen followed by Cathy
Shibuya.
PAT GEGEN: Aloha and thank you Chair and
Councilmembers for this opportunity to provide testimony on this amendment. For
the record my name is Pat Gegen, I would like to thank the Chef also for coming up.
I'm glad that our culinary students at the Pacific institute are getting a great
education making sure that our working surfaces are clean back behind the scenes
and that's great. I am philosophically opposed to change Ordinance No. 885 at
anyway at this point in time because I feel that it is effective and meeting its
purpose to moving Kauai from using fossil fuel based disposable products and
moving us to be more aware of our environment and our impact on it. When draft
bill 2321 was originally introduced, I supported it. It had a relatively loose
definition of what compostable biodegradable was but I thought it was a step in the
right direction after some clarification going through the hearing, there was change
to include a solid compostable biodegradable bag that would have been available for
any retailer to use, I supported that bill. Again I saw it as a step in the right
direction, we're moving away from things that are going to be more harmful to the
environment and better for us in the long term. The final bill that became an
ordinance only after being deferred for additional research and legal review was
only better in my mind, so I was very happy to support it when it became ordinance
no. 885. It's very effective in meeting the first of the three R's... reduce. And you
have to remember the intent of the bill is to help people start bringing their own
bags. It wasn't just to displace the plastic with other things, if it was going to
displace it; it was with something that was more environmentally friendly. At this
point it will be a significant step backward; it would weaken the law and create
more gray areas than currently in the ordinance if we adopt this new ordinance.
The definition of biodegradable bag in the existing draft is too open to interpretation
I feel and I feel that the definition of food service establishment is also too broad, I
think it opens up too many gray areas as it's written to adopt it. Most folks on
Kauai are making the behavioral change required to meet the requirements of
41
COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
ordinance 885, I believe that it's very successful in meeting the purpose as described
in section one (1). Well I do understand the arguments being made for changing
this ordinance, which we just heard some. I do not feel that they justify the change.
I have searched to find any compelling evidence regarding the potential for health,
risk in reusable bags out there, searching endlessly looking for that and found
nothing in the arguments to concern me greatly. I too have some training in
pathogens, I'm an EMT, I understand especially blood borne pathogens how long
they can live, those kinds of stuff. I do understand that. Arguments can be made
by any retail establishment regarding why plastic bags with fossil fuel polymers are
necessary but we have to remember, we are changing people habits. Change is not
always comfortable or easy but again Kauaians are making this change with grace
and proving that it is not as big as an issue as some protested to originally be. I
have great respect for the folks who have these concerns and provide great culinary
delights to us on a daily basis as my physique shows, I love eating but other
municipalities have found other alternatives that are working and it would also
meet our requirements. Please do not give up on this ordinance as it's written now
especially since its been in effect for less than one (1) month, let's give it some time.
I think the people of Kauai are innovative enough to find other alternatives. I
humbly request that the Council look at the merits of what ordinance no. 885
intends to do in the findings and purpose section before making any changes to this
ordinance. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: I have a question for you from Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: Thanks Pat for being here today and I
appreciate the input. I just curious if you were able to because I did my research
online as well and I found the study that was done by the Department of Solar
Water Environment Science from the University of Arizona at Tucson and the
School of Public Health from Loma Linda University of California, were you able
to... that was a June 9, 2010...
Mr. Gegen: Yes I did see that study and...
Mr. Rapozo: That's not compelling evidence to you?
Mr. Gegen: No it isn't.
Mr. Rapozo: Really?
Mr. Gegen: And again it isn't because some of the
commentary that went along with that if you take a look kind of the same argument
that Chair Furfaro is making, there is bacteria everywhere and I understand that
there could be, there's potentially harmful things there but you know what, as I'm
sure the Serve Safe students know if you do not wipe down your counters real clean
before you start preparing another food after doing chicken or something, and get
rid of that rag or at least disinfect it, next time you use that rag to wipe something
else down, you're putting that same potential bacteria out there. So when we take a
look at people's habits, I would bet I could go into eighty percent of the kitchens out
there after somebody has cooked a meal and we would potentially find some
potential harmful pathogens in that kitchen. Of course not any of our culinary arts
students but in my kitchen probably.
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Mr. Rapozo: And I think we're talking about the
consumer.
Mr. Gegen: Yes.
Mr. Rapozo: The risk is really and that's what their study
found. Consumers almost never wash their bags. Large numbers of bacteria were
found in every reusable bag but none in new bags or plastic bags.
Mr. Gegen: Yep.
Mr. Rapozo: Chloroform bacteria including ecoli were
found in half of the bags tested and they tested eighty -four (84) bags. Bacteria were
capable of growth when stored in the trucks of cars. A potential significant risk,
potential significant risk of bacteria cross contamination exists from using reusable
bags to carry groceries, and that doesn't concern you?
Mr. Gegen: It doesn't for a couple of reasons, one the
sampling size was relatively small, I don't have all the details on the rest of the you
know, how much they found or exactly what kinds of bacteria because we are
ingesting bacteria all the time. The other concern I have of course, it was the
plastic council that funded that study.
Mr. Rapozo: It was done by Universities.
Mr. Gegen: Right.
Mr. Rapozo: So.
Mr. Gegen: And I do understand that and one point if I
may real quick, there's concerns about the restaurants being liable after they have
provided us with food, I would argue that that's... there's no more liability there
than the county giving me a driver's license and me getting into a crash the next
day.
Mr. Rapozo: No.
Mr. Gegen: I mean once I take possession of that, I am
responsible or I feel I should be and I wish our litigation would reflect that in our
society.
Mr. Rapozo: Would you be supportive of a bag, a
compostable bag that would break down in the landfill or in a composting tub as
quick or quicker than paper?
Mr. Gegen: I would be, that would be the lesser of evils
of...
Mr. Rapozo: And why would that be, I'm curious because
I'm trying to be educated as well. Why would that be, if you had a plastic bag.
Mr. Gegen: Yes.
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Mr. Rapozo: That broke down quicker than paper...
Mr. Gegen: Yes.
Mr. Rapozo: And you were able to compost and reuse it as
fertilizer why would that be lesser of two (2) evils?
Mr. Gegen: Well I'm going to go back to the actual 885
where it says we are also looking in trying to reduce the amount of fossil fuels being
used and to make those in this point in time... which is the trouble we're having, it
does require fossil fuel polymers.
Mr. Rapozo: Correct.
Mr. Gegen: To bind all of that.
Mr. Rapozo: Right.
Mr. Gegen: So to me the ideal is let's not keep using our
fossil fuels to make things like plastic.
Mr. Rapozo:
Mr. Gegen:
Okay.
Especially if it's a single use.
Mr. Rapozo: So your big issue is the fossil fuel component,
not so much of anything else because if we can get this in a composting tub and it
compost quicker and we can reuse the bag, that's not as important as your fossil
fuels and that's not a trick question?
Mr. Gegen:
Right.
Mr. Rapozo: I'm just trying to figure out where you're
coming from because it's... for me the priority and the whole intent of this
amendment is food safety because I have read enough studies that say, there's a
definite chance especially the way we operate here, our environment, our climate.
Mr. Gegen: Sure.
Mr. Rapozo: For bacteria to grow...
Mr. Gegen: My bags are in the back of my truck.
Mr. Rapozo: Are a lot quicker than colder areas, so that's
the sole purpose, I really don't care about the cost to the... Mark's Place and... I
don't care about that, that's not the intent of this amendment.
Mr. Gegen:
Sure.
Mr. Rapozo: It's specifically targeted for food safety, none
of the other things. I mean to create more plastic tubs to... that's to me defeating
the purpose back to what you're saying.
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Mr. Gegen: Yep. And I would agree if that's, I think we
can come up with more creative solutions...
Mr. Rapozo: I want to go on the record and say this
plastic bags whether it's compostable, biodegradable or what... is reused more in
the local households of this island today for other purposes, so I think we cover the
reuse and we in fact after we're done using it as often as we can then it goes into
composting tub or it biodegrades in the landfill, it's a win/win but that's just my
opinion.
Mr. Gegen: Yeah.
Mr. Rapozo: And in the same time we are addressing the
food safety issue because from what I gathered the healthy individual may not be
susceptible.
Mr. Gegen: Right.
Mr. Rapozo: To the bacteria that's found in everywhere.
Mr. Gegen: It's the person who is already compromised.
Mr. Rapozo: It's the one that is elderly, the immune
system is deficient, they're the ones that are going to get sick and this bacteria on
those people becomes very, very, very serious. It's not like the common cold and
that's my whole purpose for the amendment, I want to get that cleared today.
Mr. Gegen: Yep.
Mr. Rapozo: It has nothing to do with economics it's
specially targeted at the food safety and the safety of our residents that eat in
restaurants.
Mr. Gegen:
don't share the same opinion.
Mr. Rapozo:
Mr. Gegen:
Chair Furfaro:
Yukimura do you have a question?
And I appreciate those concerns, we just
Thank you.
Thank you.
Any other questions of Pat? Councilwoman
Ms. Yukimura: I was going to ask how you address the
concerns of the food industry but then I'm trying to process your arguments and
you're saying that... I mean I haven't read, I just got this study from the University
of Arizona that Councilmember Rapozo and yourself were talking about... and
maybe they found contamination but did they find sickness is the question. And I'm
thinking about the times I've gotten sick, I could never really pinpoint to any
restaurant.
Mr. Gegen: Sure.
45
COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Ms. Yukimura: So I agree with you that the liability issue
just personally seems not that big of an issue though I'm open to hearing other
stories about how that may be different.
Mr. Gegen: And I don't think this study was waiting to
see if it created sickness, I think they had used the bags, put them off alongside and
then came back and tested the bags to see what was potentially growing in there.
Ms. Yukimura: Right.
Mr. Gegen: And I believe that's how it was so no, during
this study nobody got sick from the bags.
Ms. Yukimura: Well and you know that it was done by a
University isn't assurance that it was objective.
Mr. Gegen: Right.
Ms. Yukimura: Because there were many studies done by
Universities that show that tobacco wasn't harmful to people so you do have to
watch where these studies are funded. So I guess I don't have that question for you
in particular but I need some time to process this. Thank you.
Mr. Gegen: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Pat I just want to say one other thing here.
Mr. Gegen: Yes Council Chair.
Chair Furfaro: You referenced the fact that you know I
think in the restaurant business, food business in general... one of the things we
have to realize is these (inaudible) of the restaurant, they're dealing with their
reputation.
Mr. Gegen: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. That's what they're dealing with.
Their reputation makes their success.
Mr. Gegen:
Yes it does.
Chair Furfaro: You can talk about their food, the quality,
local style the portions... you know the pork buns manapua.
Mr. Gegen: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Okay, it's a Hawaiian term but it's a Chinese
bun, right and it has the spirit of the pig in the pork bun but when you have a
situation where that pork bun is used over and over again reheated and put on the
steam, reheat it and put on the steam... that's the kind of thing that gets an
establishment in trouble.
Mr. Gegen: Yeah.
46
COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Chair Furfaro: Now it may go out in a plastic bag but the
Health Department will then come when the complaint exist.
Mr. Gegen: Sure.
Chair Furfaro: And they will inspect the cleanliness of that
facility, was it brought up to the right temperature to kill the bacteria, was it
maintained in a low temperature, you know those are all the things that are
important to the restaurant reputation. It's not as if they come up later and say oh
we found something three (3) days later because bacteria can live that long.
Mr. Gegen: Right,
Chair Furfaro: And therefore you know your reputation is
tarnished. We're dealing with people take take -out.
Mr. Gegen: Yep.
Chair Furfaro: And they put it in a plastic bag, I think the
(inaudible) hoping that it is in reasonable time that has become a meal that
someone can enjoy.
Mr. Gegen:
Oh yes.
Chair Furfaro: But everybody have that responsibility so it's
the reputation that the restaurants are worried about, not if there was a settlement,
its reputation. It's hard to get your reputation back.
I�
�i�lei'1ii
Chair Furfaro:
Mr. Gegen:
Chair Furfaro:
reputation. Councilwoman.
Oh yes, I agree.
So in listening to both sides here and...
Yes.
I'm just saying for the restaurants it's about
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you Pat for your testimony. I just
wanted to follow up on one question because I'm also learning through this process
that Chef Martina brought up and the question is if she uses a different type of
container that she's going to use multiple containers, so now you got your gravy,
and then your rice... so more stuff going into the landfill, is that and so I'm trying to
balance that with you know one biodegradable maybe at a higher standard than
what might be in this current bill but... how do you balance those two (2) issues?
Mr. Gegen: And that's tough and I mean I would hate to
think that somebody would go through four (4) separate Styrofoam containers.
Ms. Nakamura: Right, exactly.
Mr. Gegen: With plastic lids to replace the one because
that would not be accomplishing our solution and again there are food service types
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
of items out there, some that close better than our current Styrofoam types, that are
tighter, that are made from a more biodegradable type of material, so there are
other options out there. So again I would hope that the establishments would take
this bill in the spirit in which it was written and say you know what we're trying to
clean up things, we're trying to take care of the aina, we're trying to do the pono
thing and take it with that spirit and say okay I may have to pass a little cost on to
my customers but you know what, a lot of times there's value in showing your
customers that you are going green, that you are concerned about the environment
so I think there's a good trade off there.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you.
Mr. Gegen: Thank you. And just for the record, I've
eaten at the Culinary institute and I've eaten at Mark's Place and I love them both,
so the reputations are very much intact whether I go in there with a reusable bag,
plastic bag or paper bag.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you.
Mr. Gegen: Alright, thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Next speaker please.
Mr. Nakamura: Next speaker is Cathy Shibuya, followed by
Alan Okuhara.
CATHY SHIBUYA: Hi. Cathy Shibuya, I'm here on behalf of
myself and my employer Mark's Place.
Chair Furfaro: Cathy may I ask you to pull the mic a little
bit closer, it slides... there you go.
Ms. Shibuya: Okay, can you hear me now? Okay I think
the main issue here today is health and safety. I don't know if any of you have
gotten food poisoning but I have. It happened twenty (20) years ago but still till
today I will not go back to that restaurant and I don't want that impact on where I
work because with this economy today we cannot afford to have that impact on us.
On the bill itself under section one (1), I'm not sure if you Mr. Bynum actually wrote
this bill but I will read it to you... it says that the Council of the County of Kauai
finds and declares that to preserve the health, safety, welfare and scenic of Kauai
that distribution of plastic bags should be regulated and prohibited. So I ask you
today, whose health, safety and welfare were you concerned about when this was
written?
Chair Furfaro: You know I'm not absolutely sure, I'm not
answering for Mr. Bynum but I will ask him... I'm not actually sure who came up
with that verbiage but I will ask him.
Ms. Shibuya: Okay, I just wanted to point that out that it
is written in the bill.
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Mr. Bynum: Yes I authored the bill so I take
responsibility for that language and the answer to your question is the health and
safety of the people of Kauai.
Ms. Shibuya: Okay with that said I just that you
reconsider or consider what Mr. Rapozo is trying to do for the health, safety and
welfare for the people of Kauai. The other thing I wanted to say is, I'm on the front
line at Mark's Place almost every day and I get a lot of complaints about the paper
bags. One (1) is that the bag breaks, what's happening is the bag is not made like
how they used to make it twenty (20) years ago, it's not as strong. When the plate
lunch sits in the bag for three (3) minutes or so, the glue gets undone so that's when
the food falls through the bags, we've had that happen, one too many times and the
customer will call us like it's our fault. I know it's not, but that's one of the things
that are happening. The other complaint I get is that the gravy leaks on their seats,
that's no fault of ours again but they'll call and complain about it. I'm just asking
that you consider this amendment. Oh one (1) more thing they said they have
lesser use for paper bag whereas plastic bags, they can use it to reline their trash
cans at home, some have said they use it to put their wet clothes after swimming in,
you know they have more uses for plastic bags than paper bags.
Chair Furfaro: Any questions from members? Mr. Chang.
Mr. Chang: Thank you Chair. Cathy, I've gone through
this community and I kind of consider myself a (inaudible) of plate lunches being a
bachelor so I go out and eat quite often and I ask everyone, grocery stores, take -out
places, local foods and what have you but when I ask you numerous times as I come
in for either lunch or dinner, you explained that there was a situation that
somebody picked up lunch for a group and a gathering and it was a very interesting
story because... can you share that with us what happened when the last lunch was
supposed to be distributed and who that lunch was for and it fell right there. Can
you share that story with us please?
Ms. Shibuya: Okay. This person had purchased lunch for
a group of people, it was about twelve (12) lunches if I recall, the last lunch in the
bag was for the Mayor and when they went to take the lunch out of the bag, the
whole plate toppled over because their hand got stuck in the paper bag, so luckily
they had purchased an extra lunch, the Mayor didn't get to eat what he wanted to
eat though because it was all over the floor.
Mr. Chang: Because the bag broke because of the...
Ms. Shibuya: The bag broke.
Mr. Chang: Because of the gravy.
Ms. Shibuya: I'm not exactly sure but all I know is he
didn't get his lunch. Something about the bag.
Mr. Chang: Okay, thank you.
Ms. Shibuya: I just have one last thing and I'm just
wondering... this is actually is for Solid Waste though, the ban has been in effect for
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
almost one (1) month now. I just wanted to know if the household waste increased,
decreased, or stayed status quo?
Chair Furfaro: I don't think we have that answer for you.
Ms. Shibuya: Okay.
Chair Furfaro: It is a good question. Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: Cathy, you are at work every day over there?
You get the opportunity to speak to the customers? What is your response or your
reaction from your customers regarding the current bill as it stands and it pertains
to food?
Ms. Shibuya: I have people asking me to sneak them
plastic bags.
Mr. Rapozo: And many establishments are doing that, it's
unfortunate but it's...
Ms. Shibuya: Um... okay that I don't know but people
have asked me to sneak them some bags and I refuse. When it was permissible
though we did distribute our food in some paper and some in plastic, so not
everything was given out in plastic.
Mr. Rapozo:
Okay, thank you.
Chair Furfaro: No other questions, thank you very much for
your testimony. Next speaker please.
Mr. Nakamura:
Alice Parker.
Next speaker is Alan Okuhara, followed by
ALAN OKUHARA: Hello, I'm Alan Okuhara one of the owners of
Mark's Place. I'm here to see if we can get an amendment for this bill because of
cross contamination of food because like this is one of the signs we have posted at
our shop.
Chair Furfaro: Could I ask you to put the sign up towards
the camera as well, there we go.
Mr. Okuhara: There are occasions where I was on the front
line helping bagging the foods too and some people brought in their cloth bags but
some of the cloth bag, I refused to put it in because I asked them when did they
wash them, they said they never did. I'm just worried that people are going to get
sick on that part. And like Martina said earlier the cloth absorbs, you know a lot of
people didn't think about all this bacteria growing in their bags. So it's the health
issue that we worried about, somebody getting sick because did you ever wash your
guys own recyclable bags? A lot of people don't and plus with the humidity and the
heat in Hawaii they just multiplies. I did some research. The paper bags requires
a lot more energy and water to produce and cutting down more trees compared to
plastic bags. I just worry about, we worry about the environment too like you guys
think about things going to the landfill, because of this... a lot of cardboard boxes
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
that we use instead of the paper bags instead of recycling. We recycle all our
cardboards so a lot of this is going into the dump instead of recycling. A lot of it is
extra stuff are going into the landfill instead of plastic bags, so it's a health reason
and things that are going into the dump and the landfill. I think we need to worry,
it's part about the environment too, we need to think about us humans getting sick
too you know, we think about the environment but we got to think about ourselves
first. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Let me see if there is any
question for you. Councilwoman Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: Thanks Alan, good job. I didn't get your last
point about cardboard or more stuff going into the landfill, are you saying because
of the plastic bag...
Mr. Okuhara: Because you know instead of packing them
in paper bag because the paper bag breaks, we tried to pack them into soda boxes or
things other boxes that we don't have... that didn't come with food, let's say chicken
boxes, we don't use nothing that has food like let's say our paper plates or soda
boxes but that usually we just recycle it.
Ms. Yukimura: I see.
Mr. Okuhara: But now all of this stuff is going to the dump
instead.
Ms. Yukimura: I see.
Mr. Okuhara: I know a lot of businesses are doing that too
because you know the cost for like the plastic bags are like I think one cents
compared to like twenty -five cents to a paper bag, so everybody cost wise using their
cardboard but I think all the cardboard, if something leaks on it like gravy, they're
just going to throw it away, it's going straight to the dump.
Ms. Yukimura: So.
Mr. Okuhara: It adds to the environment.
Ms. Yukimura: Yeah so you're really trying to adjust or find
ways to meet this but it's not been easy.
Mr. Okuhara: It's not.
Ms. Yukimura: I mean it's true I understand now about your
point about more cardboard are going but they are probably more compostable than
plastic bags, so you got a lot of things you're juggling.
Mr. Okuhara: But the thing too is a lot of cardboard are not
cleaned too, that's the thing you know the safety part about it, you don't know... we
try as much as possible to make sure the cardboard is clean but we're not going to
be a hundred percent sure because cardboard can attract moisture that you know
bacteria can grow unless compared to plastic.
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COUNCIL MEETING
FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Ms. Yukimura: Yeah. Though you probably won't use it
again like you might plastic.
Mr. Okuhara: Yeah but you don't know if the cardboard
was wet before that's the thing we worried about too, it's a health issue as compared
to plastic doesn't absorb any moisture for the bacteria to grow in.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay, thank you very much for explaining.
Chair Furfaro: Let me see if there's any more questions for
you Alan... no. Thank you for your testimony.
Mr. Nakamura: Next speaker is Alice Parker followed by
Mark Oyama.
ALICE PARKER: Greetings, Alice Parker. First of all I bring
up condominiums and needing smaller plastic bags instead of what the President of
the Association says now oh get the thirteen (13) gallon ones because we cannot
throw raw garbage into the big dumpster, that would be unsanitary and unhealthy
if we have garbage in things in our apartment, it's a little hard to compost in your
kitchen when you're on the third floor or something. So anyway I really think that
we need to be visionary here and recommend or legislate that the most current
biodegradable plastic bags be used and make it so each time there's an
improvement that we, that that can be used. Because there is a need for plastic
bags and I don't want the... being biodegradable I don't think the animals would
have much trouble getting caught in them. And I think that will be much handier.
Somebody has pointed out we use them to line garbage pails but it should be
biodegradable and I've always used newspaper to pick up after dogs, even big dogs
and people say use plastic, no newspaper better, it does take longer to degrade and
compost but faster than the old plastic bags. Somebody was mentioning I think
talking to Mr. Rapozo or he mentioned this plastic that breaks down, I think that's
great because yes you're using fossil fuels to make it, the oil company's sort of thing
but you know we got to have something to put garbage in. We can't all compost
unfortunately Pat but, and the other thing it's just nitpicking, I was born with
editing ink in my blood, on page two (2) of the bill, the fourth paragraph down,
second line from the bottom, under section 501(c), now I went through exempt
organization training for the IRS in New York and they are about, at that time they
were about 50(c) up to eighteen (18), they're probably more now, it should be 501(c)3
for tax exempt for tax organizations to which contributions are deductable.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you for that suggested correction.
Alice, we have a request from Mr. Rapozo who has a question.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you Alice. So now that you don't have
that plastic bags to line your little trash cans with, what are doing, what are you
using?
Ms. Parker: I still have some supply.
Mr. Rapozo: And when that runs out, what do you plan on
doing? Are you planning on purchasing?
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Ms. Parker: Thirteen (13) gallon and I hate it because
they're not biodegradable.
Mr. Rapozo: Yeah and I.
Ms. Parker: And also us old folks can't carry the load to
fill the whole bag up so we're probably use more of those thirteen (13) gallon ones
than we would of the little ones.
Mr. Rapozo: Right.
Ms. Parker: But you're going to have more plastic in the
landfill.
Mr. Rapozo: And those plastics that you buy in the store
in those little boxes whether it's the little ones or the bigger ones, those will not
degrade.
Ms. Parker:
That's what I'm thinking.
Mr. Rapozo: They will sit there forever. And again
another issue if you're talking about the environment, why not replace that, you use
your plastic bag as many times as you can until it's non - usable and then it
biodegrades or it compost.
Ms. Parker: Right, absolutely. Because I go to the Lihu`e
Senior Center and we often get donations of fresh fruit from a certain place that's
very great to us with that when they have extra and we bundle it up in reusable
plastic bags to take home because all this lettuce and carrots and stuff, we can't
stick them in our pockets right... okay yeah reusable, recyclable plastic bags, okay.
Mr. Rapozo: And I appreciate the comment about the
501(c)3, I know that probably will have to be fixed. I'm contemplating whether or
not, I don't understand why theirs should be exempt and they can use real plastic,
real plastic. I mean there's one won't biodegrade but the safety issues are not being
considered, not in a non - profit. You know how many 501(c)3 we got on this island?
They will be at liberty to use real plastic. So I don't understand the rationale there
and that's something I'm hoping to get information from the public to maybe amend
this further to include them in the requirement to use biodegradable and
composting as well because I don't see any difference. It's the same oil being used,
it's the same animals being killed, so there's really no rationale for that.
Ms. Parker: You're absolutely right.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Any other questions for Alice? Thank you
very much and thank you as Mr. Rapozo said about the correction. We have
Mr. Mark Oyama next.
MARK OYAMA: My name is Mark Oyama; I'm here in front
of the Council supporting the amendment of the plastic bag ban bill. As a food
service business owner of Mark's Place, culinary educator at Kauai Community
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
College, son, father of two (2) young daughters, I'm hoping that the Council will look
into this issue not as a popularity vote but what is best to safeguard the people of
our islands and our visitors. When this bill went into law the recommendation from
the County was for food service establishments to use reusable bags and cardboard
boxes to transport ready -to -eat foods, but what was not addressed was the
contamination hazards that these items pose. In a study done by the University of
Arizona and the School of Public Health Loma Linda University, it found that
reusable bags can be a serious threat to public health. Bacteria levels found in the
reusable bags were significant enough to cause a wide range of serious health
problems and even death in that study. (Inaudible) form bacteria including ecoli
were detected in half of the bag sample. The study also found the awareness of
potential risk was very low. A full ninety -seven percent (97 %) of those interviewed
never washed or bleached their bags. When the new law came into effect the price
of the compliant paper bags increased packaging by two thousand five hundred
percent. I'm concerned that this increase in cost will cause some food
establishments to use single use cardboard boxes that held meat, produce or
chemicals which could cross contaminate ready to eat foods. The County Council
clearly demonstrated the food safety issue in bill 2322, ordinance number 885 by
allowing plastic produce bags for meats and produce in the supermarkets, this
demonstrates the intent of food safety for the consumers. What it didn't address is
the food safety for ready to eat foods. Unlike raw meats and produce, ready to eat
foods will not be washed to rid of harmful bacteria or likely be reheated to the
proper temperatures to kill any pathogens that might have cross contaminated
these items. There are currently two (2) bills in the Hawaii State Senate, Bills SB
1363, and SB 1059 which prohibits certain business in the State from distributing
single use plastic check out bags. In these bills they have addressed the needs of
using single non - reusable checkout bags which includes plastic bags. It states the
term non - reusable checkout bag does not include bags distributed by businesses for
the transport of number one (1) raw meats, poultry, fish, frozen foods, flowers, or
other items containing dampness. Number two (2) bulk food products sold without
packaging, number three (3) fresh produce, number four (4) baked goods sold over
the counter without packaging, number five (5) takeout foods from restaurants,
number six (6) live animals, number seven (7) newspapers for home delivery, and
number eight (8) laundry or dry cleaning. Currently the County of Kauai allows
raw meats, poultry, fish and frozen foods to use plastic bags because it makes sense.
We allow fresh produce to use plastic bags...
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me Mark... your first three (3)
minutes is up and I'm going to go ahead and give you your second three (3) minutes.
Mr. Oyama: Okay, thank you. We allow live fish to be
put in plastic bags because it makes sense, we allow newspapers to be put in plastic
bags and delivered to the homes because it makes sense, but what we don't allow is
ready to eat foods that can be potentially hazard by cross contamination to use
plastic bags which does not make sense. There are currently sixty -four (64) written
testimony online on these two (2) Senate bills, of these sixty -four (64) written
testimony none have addressed the fact that non - reusable checkout bags should not
be used for these items. These even include testimony from the Surfrider
Foundation, Sierra Club of Hawaii, and the Conservation Council for Hawaii.
Why? Because it makes sense. As a certified service aid culinary which is to
recognize food safety certification roadway by the National Restaurant Association
and as a food safety and sanitation educator at Kauai Community College, I'm
concerned about the food safety of our visitors and the people of Kauai. The cost of
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
food borne illness to an establishment can create loss of employment, loss of sales,
increased insurance premiums, and high probability rate of loss of business. For
the consumer study show that certain people have a high risk of getting food borne
illness than others, sometimes serious results as death. Infant, preschool age
children, pregnant women, elderly people, and people with compromised immune
systems. The center for disease control estimates that every year food borne illness
cause approximately seventy -six (76) million illnesses, three hundred twenty -five
thousand (325,000) hospitalizations, and five hundred (500) deaths in the United
States. Please do not allow our grandparents, parents, children, relatives and
friends be a part of this statistic. This amendment is also backed by the Hawaii
Hotel Lodging Association on Kauai, Hawaii Restaurant Association, American
Culinary Federal Kauai Chapter, so you can clearly see that each of these
organizations understand that there is a food safety concern with this current bill.
With information that I presented it is my hope that you as our leaders will be
proactive and responsible in protecting our people for potential injury and loss from
food borne illness and not reactive by being concerned only after someone gets
injured or died. Please protect the people first and please keep my family, friends
from being a part of this statistic, thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Alright first of all is that written testimony
that you prepared to give us a copy?
Mr. Oyama: I will send you a copy of this written
testimony.
Chair Furfaro: And could you revisit the Senate bill and the
House bill numbers that you...
Mr. Oyama: Sure. It's Senate bill SB 1363, and SB 1059.
Right now they're... that bill doesn't... will allow the counties if they have a bill
already to go on with their law, they won't touch other counties with that law.
Chair Furfaro: Okay well we're aware of it and Mr.
Nakamura our County Clerk will research it that's why I asked you in particular
covered a different scope about food service. Mark let me see if anybody has
another questions? Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: You mentioned the produce bags are allowed
under the current bill and they are and I'm assuming that was left in there or
allowed because of the food safety issue like you described?
Mr. Oyama: I'm assuming that that's the reason why it
was left in for food safety.
Mr. Rapozo: Those bags are pretty protected though I
think if you use those types of bags, they would prohibit the spread of the cross
contamination I'm assuming I mean in your experience because I also consider you
an expert as well.
Mr. Oyama: The plastic bags, the produce bags wrapped
around raw meats or chicken and if... same like a plate lunch or whatever takeout
food you have, a lot of those products are already in a container or bag but you still
have a potential for leakage. Now the bags are allowed to put around those
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
containers in case there's leakage but when it goes into a reusable cloth bag or
reusable bag, it depends on how it's stacked in there, it's not stacked or tied, it's just
placed into the bag, you lie it in your car, you lie it down where ever it stays and you
have a potential of leakage. That's where you have the cross contamination with
ecoli, salmonella and right now people don't know it but they consider salmonella
only with chicken but you have more salmonella with produce now than on chicken.
Mr. Rapozo: I think I read that where like leafy
vegetables, lettuce and so forth carry that bacteria as well.
Mr. Oyama:
Mr. Rapozo:
Yes.
Okay well thank you very much.
Mr. Oyama: And I'd like to point out I know you had a
question about cross contamination how a food was in a container, now...
Chair Furfaro:
Mr. Oyama:
Chair Furfaro:
you.
Mr. Oyama:
Chair Furfaro:
Mr. Oyama:
Chair Furfaro:
restate it?
Excuse me Mark, let me...
Okay, I'm sorry.
Let me have them restate the question to
Okay.
Because I've already given you all your time.
Sure.
So who had that question of Mark, could you
Ms. Yukimura: Sure, thanks I appreciate you addressing
it... my question was about okay so there's bacteria in the bag but how does it get
into the food?
Mr. Oyama: Well when you pick up your lunch in the bag
your fingers normally touch the bag right?
Ms. Yukimura: Right.
Mr. Oyama: Or it will touch the container that touches
the bag, so right there you have cross contamination and how many of you wash
your hands after you open your plate lunch? Nobody and you're going to touch your
utensils and how many of you are going to touch only... or touch the napkin and not
you know not use the side that you touch the napkin to touch your mouth. These
are all potential and the point of being brought up where how often you get sick,
well there's no real... a lot of people get sick without even knowing there's a food
borne illness and going back... the chances I'm not sure what the chances are but do
we want to add fuel to the fire and give more chances for that to happen? That's
what I'm trying to prevent.
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you.
Mr. Oyama: And another point with the cardboard boxes
if they had a box that was already contaminated, you know a lot of places will put
your plate lunches in and they put your utensils in the box directly, not in the
lunches itself, so that's where you get another cross contamination.
Chair Furfaro: Anymore questions of Mark? Mark thank
you very much and you will submit your testimony...
Mr. Oyama: And before I leave I'd like to say that I'm not
against saving the environment, we are at Mark's Place working on a project right
now to allow reusable bags, we are looking at different ways to help be a part of a
steward on our island but at the same time I'm speaking on behalf of a lot of other
industry out there that might not see the same sanitation things that we see and be
as protected as we are. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Do we have a next speaker?
Okay, we have...
Mr. Nakamura: No further registered speakers Mr. Chair.
Chair Furfaro: We're done with the registered speakers,
Ken.
KEN TAYLOR: Chair, members of the Council, my name is
Ken Taylor. First I'd just like to comment because there's been some much
discussion today about this review from the University of Arizona, we should all
keep in mind that that project was funded by the chemical company that represents
the manufacturer of plastic bags so one could... there's certainly some bias in there
but in reality the report didn't find much of anything to begin with. If it was going
to find something, it would have been there I believe and so. The other thing is the,
one of the problems with these biodegradable plastic bags is they don't completely
biodegradable, they breakdown to a point but then there's a lot of confetti that's left
that take hundreds of years to go any further so that's one problem. The other
problem with these bags is because they are biodegradable, you can't buy them in
large quantities because they deteriorate sitting on the shelf and so one of the
reasons for going to plastic bags in the first place years ago was that they were
cheaper than paper bags and anybody in business is going to go with something
that's cheaper than the other. It was cheaper for them to buy but it wasn't cheaper
for us in the long run to deal with the problem so there's a lot of issues, I just said
last Friday my wife and I went out to dinner at a restaurant, a fish restaurant and
fishing grill and we had dinner and some wine with our dinner and dessert, had a
bill and the next day my wife was very, very ill. Now I don't know if had anything
to do with the dinner or not but there was no plastic bags involved but there's so
many things that can create problems that we don't know where they come from.
People have to start taking a little bit of responsibility for themselves too; I mean if
you don't wash your bags, maybe you deserve to get sick.
Chair Furfaro: Now, now, now.
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 201 I
Mr. Taylor: When I spent two (2) years living in Japan,
they used to take a square cloth and tie up their food in the event which was much
easier and more likely to be washed on a regular basis then a bag maybe.
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me Ken, that's your first three (3)
minutes, I'm extending your second three (3) minutes.
Mr. Taylor: Alright. So we talk a lot about being
sustainable into the future and so on and we have to start making the hard choices
to get there and I'm opposed to this amendment and I just like to read a short piece
out of a larger document that was a commencement speech at a University in
Oregon in 09 by Paul Hokins and this little part of the speech really jumped out at
me when I read it and it says we have an economy that tells us that it is cheaper to
destroy earth in real time rather than renew, restore, and sustain it. You can print
money to bail out banks but you can't print life to bail out a planet. At present we
are stealing the future, selling it in the present and calling it gross domestic
product. We can just as easy have an economy that is based on healing the future
instead of stealing it. We can either create assets for the future or take the assets of
the future. One is called restoration and the other is exportation and whenever we
exploit the earth, we exploit the people and cause untold suffering. Working for
earth is not a way to get rich it is a way to be rich. And I really think that this
comment relates to so many things that we do today and it's time that we get the
political will to take the necessary steps to become sustainable. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro:
Rapozo.
Thank you Ken. Any questions for Ken? Mr.
Mr. Rapozo: Ken do you support the non - profits using
plastic bags?
Mr. Taylor: I do not.
Mr. Rapozo: Support the newspaper allowing putting out
every day thousands of newspapers in little plastic bags?
Mr. Taylor:
I don't agree with that.
Mr. Rapozo:
But you say you support the bill as it is.
Mr. Taylor:
Well because that's the bill that we have.
Mr. Rapozo:
I'm not talking about...
Mr. Taylor:
I understand.
Mr. Rapozo: You said you support the bill as it is as many
others did; they're citing the fact that the environment is the key but they're
allowing non - profits and the newspaper and all these other non -check out areas to
use plastic or the bill itself is forcing people to go out and purchase plastic that
doesn't biodegrade. So I'm having a hard time understand you support the bill as is
but yet no more plastic but yet we allow so much plastic but when it comes to food
safety people say no, stop, no, no, no... biodegradables. My question to you is
explain that because I'm confused.
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Mr. Taylor: Well first of all instead of spending time on
an amendment like this we should be making the bill stronger and eliminating all of
the plastic that you're talking about, we should be eliminating plastic water bottles;
we should be eliminating Styrofoam instead of coming forth and spending time with
this...
Mr. Rapozo:
written.
Mr. Taylor:
Mr. Rapozo:
Mr. Taylor:
Mr. Rapozo:
Mr. Taylor:
Mr. Rapozo:
Then you don't support the bill as it's
I don't support the bill as it's written.
Okay, thank you.
But that's not the issue before us.
Of course it is.
The issue here is an amendment to the bill.
Right.
Mr. Taylor: I would rather see an amendment to the bill,
the existing bill that eliminates the plastics that are still left out there. Most of us
that have supported the bill in the first place supported it only as the first step in
the right direction and hopefully you folks that have the ability to make the changes
will not go backwards like this does but go forward by bringing forth additional
amendments that will eliminate the rest of the plastic.
Mr. Rapozo: So last question...
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me... let me just say Ken you are
going into areas that as I had cautioned Mr. Bynum earlier on we're going away
from the bill and I have to caution us in a sense that there are limits that
Councilmembers can respond to your many new questions. Mr. Rapozo you have
the floor.
Mr. Rapozo: Just one more last question and it's really a
yes or no, you talked about the political will, do you think this Council should put
the environment in front of public health and safety, and food safety, yes or no.
Mr. Taylor: Well I don't think there's a yes or no answer
to that.
Mr. Rapozo: Well there is, I mean you think we should
put the environment before the safety...
Mr. Taylor: You take care of the environment and the
environment will take care of you.
Chair Furfaro: And I'm going to end the comments right
there. Thank you Mr. Rapozo. Do we have anyone else in the audience that would
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
like to speak? Glenn come right on up. Councilwoman Yukimura can you take the
meeting from me for a few minutes?
Ms. Yukimura: Yes certainly.
GLENN MICKENS: Thank you Jay or JoAnn. For the record my
name is Glenn Mickens. It appears that both the original bill and Mel's amendment
are basically the same. The original says decompose in an actual setting and Mel's
says degradable plastic, for me, we're saying basically the same thing. For me the
main thing is that the trash island in the Pacific that was out there the size of
Texas is eliminated. My wife with Alice loves plastic bags to put in their waste
basket but she's the most recyclable person on Kauai and wants to do the proper
thing, so she may love it but again I think we go back to the degradable part. I saw
a report from consumers union, you probably saw the same thing, it was talking
about these carry in and carry out bags and they're (inaudible) consumer report for
forty years, I have tremendous respect for that and consumers report on health,
they're not paid by anybody as you know their a mutual organization. And they
found that the chances of illnesses from those bags were negligible, that you weren't
going to be able to get sick from whatever is in that particular bags. If our plastics
bags are degradable then except for what Pat has said for the oil used in them, the
degradable part for me is the solution whether it's plastic or what, that is the
solution. Mel brought up a good point what about all the rest of the newspapers
that come in those plastic bags to keep them dry in the morning, etc... then they
should all be degradable, all plastic bags should be made degradable. Basically will
solve the solution. Anyway that's my testimony and you know it's not an easy
subject obviously, you try to listen to whether somebody has a dog in the fight when
they testify about something, if they have no dog in the fight, they're mutual... well
if they're trying to do the right thing, fine. Thank you very much JoAnn.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you Mr. Mickens. Any questions?
Mr. Rapozo: I just wanted to, I'm sorry.
Ms. Yukimura: Oh.
Mr. Rapozo: You cited that consumer reports... can you go
over that real quick?
Mr. Mickens: Yeah. Maybe I saw it... Andy Parks had a
blog that he...
Mr. Rapozo: Oh okay... that's... you don't need to say
anymore.
Mr. Mickens: Well but...
Mr. Rapozo: Because I read it.
Mr. Mickens: Oh okay.
Mr. Rapozo: I read it every morning, like how I take my
multi - vitamin, I take my salmon oil, I take all my stuff and then I read Andy Parks
blog and he cited a part of that and I have it here. He cited a part of it where it says
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
a person eating an average bag of salad greens gets more exposure to these bacteria
than if they had licked the insides of the dirty bags in the study. That's probably
what you're referring to.
Mr. Mickens:
Right, right.
Mr. Rapozo: But it also says and that's why it's important
Mr. Mickens when you read Andy Parks, you got to go back and read what he read
and get what he didn't put in his blog... which was but hence and notes... and it's
the same one...
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me; I got to share with you... I hate
to caution us, for the Councilmembers the contents of Mr. Parks blog is not this
agenda item.
Mr. Rapozo: But.
Chair Furfaro: I will give you thirty (30) seconds to
summarize...
Mr. Rapozo: Okay.
Chair Furfaro: Your response to Mr. Mickens.
AL CASTILLO JR., COUNTY ATTORNEY: Excuse me, Councilmember. I
got to say that the Council Chair is correct because the Sunshine Law actually what
is permissible is for the Council to just speak on the subject matter itself and
allowing the discretion o£.. in allowing the testifier to testify outside out of bounds
is appropriate if allowed by the person in control of the meeting.
Mr. Rapozo: Well... this comment is directly related to
reusable bags, it says but what (inaudible) notes that there are some reminders to
take away from the study, the same study... it's easy to spread bacteria from meat,
fish, poultry to other foods in your kitchen or in your grocery bags, so we do think
it's wise to carry those items in disposable bags. Reusable bags are fine for most
everything else but it's a good idea to wash them occasionally, that's the rest of it
that maybe forgot to put in. I think we need to make sure when we put out
information, we give out all the information and let the fact finders and the decision
makers decide on the information that's available.
Mr. Mickens:
Mr. Rapozo:
Mr. Mickens:
consumers and I guess it's online...
Mr. Rapozo:
Mr. Mickens:
Well I appreciate it that Mel.
Thank you.
I didn't go and get that part of issue of
Well you got to read the whole thing.
Yeah, yeah.
Mr. Rapozo: You got to read the whole thing.
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Chair Furfaro: Glenn, thank you. I think all of us can
access you know the comments, the constructive comments that Mr. Parks and
Mr. Rapozo...
Mr. Mickens: Right.
Chair Furfaro: Had share with us all.
Mr. Mickens: Well I appreciate those...
Chair Furfaro: But for right now we have some restrictions
here.
Mr. Mickens: Right.
Chair Furfaro: And I'll make that a point to visit that
communication.
JOE ROSA: Good afternoon members of the Council. For
the record Joe Rosa. I'm listening to all this things about the poor white plastic
bags, you know the plastic bags was not a problem whatsoever until as of late
because it was strictly introduced more so by Mr. Bynum. We only heard about this
so- called plastic magic island off the coast of California, now this is a world item; it's
not a county issue or county item. And you know when it came out on the Council
meeting I remember after that I don't know who was paying Dennis Fujimoto, he
was always taking pictures of the poor white bag on the side of the road, behind the
guardrail, by a trash can and putting it in his Garden Island. So people were kind
of thinking oh he's doing something good for the county but you know it's nothing
but waste of time. Here on this Council we should be dealing with problems of this
island and the county here. If we're going to deal with plastic bags, all your trash
liners in your Parks, it's all plastic. You're going to pick on the poor white plastic
bags and at the grocery stores you know it's ridiculous. Why not make it all green
bags instead of white bags and let them put the groceries and stuff in that. It
became an issue when these so- called pictures in the Garden Island showed up of
that white bag and they started to make a problem out of it. You know I can ask
everyone of you what created this problem. You going have seven (7) different
answers but yet to me it's something that is not a problem at all because if.. they
don't do nothing in this world, and stuff... and put a ban to it, why should the
Kauai County do it, we're just a small thing here in the middle of the ocean. So I
think those trash bags, if you're going to condemn all, you condemn the whole
shebang... black, green, yellow, white... but it seems like you're just hitting one
section of the people that use that trash bags and (inaudible) stores or people who
use trash bags, food caterers and all that. So think about it, to me, you're trying to
do something but it didn't work out and I think you should just let it go and rest
upon it until something else comes up better. Because I don't know what the State
of California, Oregon, Mexico and on top of that those big shipping lines that
probably throw their trash out in the ocean. Those were probably the villains of
those trash bag island out of California.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you Mr. Rosa, any questions of
Mr. Rosa? If not, I see none. Is there anyone else in the audience that wishes to
speak? They have no questions for you Mr. Rosa. If not, I'm going to call this
meeting back to order.
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as
follows.
Mr. Nakamura: You have a motion to receive Council Chair.
Chair Furfaro: We do have the motion to receive?
Mr. Nakamura: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Okay, Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: I appreciate all the testimony we heard
today and you know this is going to come up later on the agenda when we actually
vote on the bill that because we had all the testimony now, you know this is a very
interesting topic, I am familiar with the study and I've read it and I've read you
know the critiques of this study and as we go through this public process, what we'll
determine. I really appreciate Mr. Oyama's testimony today in terms of, because
there are exemptions in the bill that we put there and I like, it was well written
Mark because like... because it makes sense. I think when we go through this
public process, we will determine as a group if making a change relating to food
safety in restaurants makes sense. I'm not clear that now, that answer to that yet.
But that's why I love the public process, so I am going to vote for this bill on first
reading because our process is a public process to get input, to learn, to understand.
I obviously don't know much about the food industry as Mr. Oyama and the other
people who testified here today but I do know that this concern that came up about
the potential about cross contamination did come from a study that was funded by
the American Chemical Industry and it has been critiqued by food safety experts
and as we go through the process we will look at that testimony as well. And so... I
love the public process and I think that it's appropriate that we have this dialog.
Mel mentioned an exemption for non - profits, I personally didn't support that
exemption but I supported the bill because the public process is one that
compromise. So I don't know what the outcome will be, I'm certainly voting for the
bill today because our process is to go to first reading, public hearing, you know
have Committee entertain other amendments if necessary and use that process to
come up with a conclusion that the majority decides on. So this is just the
beginning of the process.
Chair Furfaro: Any other members? For the audience the
bill comes up later when we get back from our lunch hour but this is actually
receiving the testimony.
The motion to receive C 2011 -61 for the record was then put, and unanimously
carried.
There being no objections, the Council recessed 12:35 p.m.
The Council reconvened at 1:50 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
Mr. Nakamura: Council Chair, we're now back on page two
(2) of the Council's agenda on agenda item C 2011 -62.
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
C 2011 -62 Communication (1/19/2011) from the Executive on Aging,
Agency on Elderly Affairs, requesting Council approval to apply for, receive, and
expend $1,379,893.52 in State funds from the State Executive Office on Aging, with
their contract award to the County of Kauai, Agency on Elderly Affairs of State
General funds, including approved Rainy Day Funds. The funding covers the period
from the State's Notice to Proceed until June 30, 2013. The funding is for the
provision for KUPUNA CARE services for older adults, age 60 and above. This
request also includes a indemnification of the State Executive Office on Agency:
Mr. Bynum moved to approve C 2011 -62, seconded by Ms. Yukimura, and
unanimously carried.
Chair Furfaro: Next item Mr. Clerk.
Mr. Nakamura: We're on page three (3) of the Council's
agenda Mr. Chair on communication C 2011 -64.
C 2011 -64 Communication (1/18/2011) from the Fire Chief, requesting
Council approval to apply for, receive, and expend $65,459.52 of the 2011 State of
Hawaii, Department of Transportation, Highway Safety Grant which would allow
the Kauai Fire Department (KFD) to purchase for one per fire station the following:
• Tele Crib Struts $30,494.80
• Response Kits $34,964.72
Mr. Chang moved to approve C 2011 -64, seconded by Ms. Yukimura.
Chair Furfaro: Please note these numbers that we're looking
at are inclusive numbers for all eight (8) stations. Is there anyone that would like
to give testimony on this item? Seeing no one, is there any further discussion by the
Councilmembers? If not, all those in favor?
The motion to approve C 2011 -64 was then put, and unanimously carried.
Chair Furfaro: Next item.
Mr. Nakamura: Next matter for approval on page three (3) is
communication C 2011 -65.
C 2011 -65 Communication (1/10/2011) from the Fire Chief, requesting
Council approval to accept a donation of the installation of a flagpole at the
Hanap6p6 Fire Station, a project which will assist Joshua Quinlan to become an
Eagle Scout: Ms. Yukimura moved to approve C 2011 -65 with a thank you letter,
seconded by Mr. Chang, and unanimously carried.
Chair Furfaro: Next item Mr. Clerk.
Mr. Nakamura: Next matter is a Legal Document for
approval C 2011 -67,
LEGAL DOCUMENTS:
C 2011 -67 Communication (1/18/2011) from the Housing Director,
requesting Council approval of the following:
(1) The leasehold sale of 3934 Lawehana Street, Hanamd'ulu, Hawaii for
$213,363.00; and
COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
(2) To authorize the County Clerk to sign legal documents related to the
resale transaction.
Mr. Rapozo moved to approved C 2011 -67, seconded by Mr. Chang, and
unanimously carried.
Mr. Nakamura: Next Legal Document for approval is
C 2011 -68.
C 2011 -68 Communication (1/13/2011) from the Director, Department of
Parks and Recreation, requesting Council approval to facilitate the KIUC utility
easements with the State of Hawaii which is necessary for providing electricity to
the comfort station at Kapa`a Park, TMK 4 -6 -14 -036, the section known as Lihi
Park.
• Utility Relocation Agreement
Ms. Yukimura moved to approve C 2011 -68, seconded by Mr. Bynum, and
unanimously carried.
Chair Furfaro: Next item.
Mr. Nakamura: Last Legal Document for approval is
attached to communication C 2011 -69.
C 2011 -69 Communication (1/13/2011) from the Director, Department of
Parks and Recreation, requesting Council approval to acquire property for the
Lydgate Park to Kapa`a Bike/Pedestrian Path along Papaloa Road.
• Memorandum of Agreement of Sale (TMK: (4)4 -3- 03:02)
Ms. Yukimura moved to approve C 2011 -69, seconded by Mr. Chang.
Chair Furfaro: Is there anyone in the audience that would
like to testify on this? Mr. Mickens.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Mr. Mickens: Thank you again Jay. For the record Glenn
Mickens and I have a short testimony. When will the public ever be told where the
final route of this path is going and what will be its total cost including acquiring
and condemnation of land as with this Papaloa parcel.
The path was originally going into the House Lots until the people who lived
there were properly notified and vehemently told Mayor Baptiste they didn't want it
so that spur was eliminated.
Then the path was going to be a boardwalk on the Wailua Beach but under
pressure from our Native Hawaiians court action and all the route was again
changed. And don't forget the turmoil over the mauka route behind the Coco Palms
along with the makai route that is still not settled. Or the pavilion problems that
had to be changed. Of the over built bridge across the Kealia River that even Jay
asked about and was never addressed and on and on... years have passed with
controversy on going about this path. The golf course route, in front of or behind
the motorcycle park that Mel brought up, the crossing of Kuhi`o Highway probably
three (3) times with signals to jam up traffic even more.
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
This parcel of land acquisition is a miniscule part of the hundred million
dollars cost of this project but what aren't the people continually told what's going
on? Why are the costs, routes, time of completion terms with the Feds for their
eighty percent (80 %) so selective, so secretive?
I have a map here of the Papaloa Road, it's dated November of 2006, I don't
know if there was a map ever put out long... I can't read this map. It shows a black
line, it says bike pedestrian improvements, and then it shows widen sidewalks,
etc... but I see nothing but black lines on this map and so I can't really determine
just exactly where this route is going but my question still remains, why are we left
in the dark about this, we're buying a piece of land, this parcel of property for
Papaloa Road. I've testified before about Papaloa Road, they're going to make it a
one lane thing and it was going to go up (inaudible) turn left, go across, go makai
and then along there up to the ditch there by Pizza Hut I guess, come back down
there, go across that little bridge etc., and then it has to go back across the highway
again. Then you got the spur here going up Kawaihau Road and Kawaihau Road
again they show it coming down Kawaihau Road, it's going to cross there at Kuhi`6
Highway again. Now for you guys that have driven on Kawaihau Road coming
there, that's a real, real dangerous intersection. You can't see around that bend,
car's coming down on Kuhi`6 Highway, they're traveling you know fifty (50), it
supposed to be the speed limit, I think it drops to thirty (30) but it comes down
there and it's very dangerous so if you're going to have people on bicycles crossing, I
can't tell... looks like there's supposed to be a signal, I can't read the small print on
this thing but it looks like there's going to be a signal on the crossing walk there on
that part but that again is going to be extremely dangerous for anybody, bicycles, or
anybody else because even when you're in an automobile making a right hand turn
there, I know you got to really be careful coming around there because cars come
down there fast. That's basically my testimony but I don't know if anybody can give
me an update on this thing but I've been trying to get information for a long time as
you know.
Chair Furfaro: We'll see if there's a motion to move this to
the end of the agenda Mr. Mickens.
Mr. Mickens: Okay.
Chair Furfaro: And we'll take it from there but let me
recognize some other Councilmembers first, Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: I don't want to address everything you said
Glenn because you come here and say the same things but you know there are EA's
for this, environmental assessments that are online, all of the questions you ask are
easily answered but I do want to address one about Kawaihau, right now you're
right it's a scary place, do you think people cross there now kids and seniors? If you
live in Kapa`a, Kapa`a you know up Kawaihau Road the people walk down there
now, they cross the road now.
Mr. Mickens: I've never seen them walk at that particular
intersection Tim.
Mr. Bynum: You never seen them?
Mr. Mickens: No, I never seen them walk...
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Mr. Bynum: I can assure you lots of kids and seniors and
elderly people walk down Kawaihau cross the highway to get to the beach or
Otsuka's or the... and so actually part of this path to answer your question is to put
in a pedestrian active (inaudible) alert so when they cross there the pedestrian can
push a button and it will alert hey there's pedestrians coming...
Mr. Mickens: You mean a trip signal?
Mr. Bynum: So it's going to... no... pedestrian activated.
So it's not a signal, it's just... you push a button the light says pedestrians are in
the crosswalk and it alerts... so we're improving the safety for people who already
move. You know these, this... why this process goes through we hire really nice
consultants that know about traffic safety, that have to required by law consult
with the Department of Transportation and the Police and all of the people involved
to try to in the process improve pedestrian safety. We do have pedestrians now who
walk on all of these places without facilities, so getting facilities for them just
improves both the access and the safety.
Mr. Mickens: Where are these traffic alert things being
used Tim, I never seen them on our highway?
Mr. Bynum: All over the country.
Mr. Mickens: On Kauai?
Mr. Bynum: You know it's kind of like we put...
Department of Public Safety put in a new intersection in Omao and because there is
a curve, when you come down the road there's a flashing light that says hey the
lights red.
Mr. Mickens: Yeah.
Mr. Bynum: And it alerts you, it's kind of like that.
Pedestrian pushes a button; I'm going to cross the street.
Mr. Mickens: But there's a signal there where they cross.
Mr. Bynum: Right. Okay, I've answered your question.
Thank you.
Mr. Mickens: Well will you have update for the map?
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Mickens.
Mr. Bynum: The public... the Parks Department will
come here with a quarterly update soon, I just saw that correspondence.
Mr. Mickens: Soon but when is soon Tim?
Mr. Bynum: Before the end of the quarter, I think the
correspondence said.
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Mr. Mickens:
Chair Furfaro:
Mr. Rapozo:
Okay, thank you.
Hold on, I think Mr. Rapozo had a question.
Oh no.
Chair Furfaro: You did not have a question for him? Okay,
is there anybody else from the public that would like to? Okay, I think I'm going to
push this item towards the end, I saw someone come from the Administration.
Mr. Rapozo: No, well I just... I thought...
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me; the meeting is called back to
order.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as
follows:
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you. I thought I had asked for
someone from Parks here. I'm not sure, I believe this is the same purchase
agreement about a month ago.
Mr. Bynum: It was deferred yeah?
Mr. Rapozo: No, that was approved, I vote... I mean I
didn't vote for it but it was approved. I did request information I believe Mr. Chair
it went through you to request the estimate of the cost of this acquisition and
obviously we never got that information back and I'm going to ask the same
question. I cannot support any acquisition unless I know what it's going to cost, I
just cannot do that and maybe I have the cost here. Oh no, this is the response
that I got and it's unfortunately they're not able to provide the number, let me just
read it real quick it says... in response to memorandums concerning the landscape
related cost (inaudible) the Kapa`a Shore land acquisition we will provide this
information shortly after we open the bids for the work on March 8, acquire cost
figures will be available then. So I'm not prepared to vote on it because I just don't
know what the cost will be and I think it would be premature to approve something
if we don't know what the cost will be. Again I will ask that this matter be deferred
until we have a cost. I guess it's confusing because it was approved the last time
but this is a continuous issue because of the number of owners that need to sign off
of this memorandum, the memorandum of agreement of sale, so whenever they
come across new owners, they got to create a whole new memo, so we keep
approving it and approving it with new owners and we're basically ratifying the
contract or the memo but until I know exactly what the cost will be or at least an
estimate I cannot believe we don't even have a ballpark estimate but until then, I
will not be able to support this Legal Document.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Any other discussion here? So we do
have a motion here Mr. Clerk?
Mr. Nakamura: Yes we have a motion and a seconded.
.:
COUNCIL MEETING
FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Chair Furfaro: Okay, I'm going to see if we can get a call
over to the Administration and I'm going to ask that we move this to the end of the
agenda, is everyone okay with that.
Mr. Rapozo: That's fine, I mean I think it's clear that
they're not going to be able to submit numbers' till March 8 based on the last, this
was a January 27 memo as I'm assuming that that hasn't changed but if you want
to... I have no problem...
Chair Furfaro: I'll push it to the end. I do want to caution
us because you know that's a procedural piece where estimates are put in by the
Administration as to you know what they are operating within the framework of
their budget of something. Certainly when we voted on this we were told we were
going to get a reconciliation, now we're getting a memorandum that might actually
establish a precedent that until a project goes out for bids they're actually open and
certified that you know... that's your question with the lack of other clarity. But
let's push it to the end and see if we can get Mr. Hen who just walked in to come up
towards the end of the meeting.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Are you prepared to answer some of these
questions about the bid product on the acquisition of land in Kapa`a as it relates to
some questions from Mr. Rapozo about specific costs associated with the
landscaping portion of the project because we have no firm number.
GARY HEU, MANAGING DIRECTOR: Right and I'm sorry. Gary Hen
for the record and sorry for the in and out but I was asked the question about... I
thought the question was the cost for the property but I'm not sure if everybody's
already aware of that.
Chair Furfaro: Well I want to tell you we were answering a
previous request that went over from me that basically said that until we open the
bid documents.
Mr. Heu: On March 8.
Chair Furfaro: We would be able to answer the portion on
landscaping, etc.
Mr. Heu: Right, right.
Chair Furfaro: So is there any change on that right now?
Mr. Hen: No, it's still. I confirmed it's still March 8.
Chair Furfaro: Okay.
Mr. Heu: We will do the bid openings and we will have
actual numbers to share at that point in time. I mean there's two (2) components of
the cost, one was for the property and the other was for the improvements and what
you think what you're resting with now is the cost of improvements which was that
request that you came over or sent over and we sent over a response.
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Chair Furfaro: So let me see if there's any other questions
for you Mr. Hen since you're there. Did you have a question Councilwoman?
Ms, Yukimura: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Go ahead.
Ms. Yukimura: Do I understand that you do not have the
price of the property that's described here?
Mr. Hen: Oh no, I said there were two (2) components
and one was for the cost for the property which I believe the estimate that was
provided to me was a hundred thousand dollars.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay, that's what we wanted.
Mr. Heu: Right, yeah.
Chair Furfaro: And we voted on that but the second part of
that question was...
Mr. Heu: Was the improvements.
Chair Furfaro: Was that price was conditional of some
certain improvements including a little extension of the parking lot, the
replacement of a fence with some landscaping, so that's the second part and you're
saying we don't have that yet?
Mr. Heu: Right and I mean I believe that was the
discussion the last time this issue was up and it focused on the cost of the
improvements and so when you sent your communication over the response was
that we would have those cost available on March 8.
Ms. Yukimura: And you don't even have a ballpark figure at
this point?
Mr. Heu: To be honest I wasn't even expecting to be
sitting here talking about this agenda item, I was just monitoring something else
and one of the staff came over and asked me about the cost of the property so I... I
followed up with the hundred thousand dollars and referenced back to the
communication that was sent over by the Chair regarding the improvements. So I
apologize that I don't have more information right now.
Chair Furfaro:
question from Mr. Bynum?
Ms. Yukimura:
Mr. Bynum:
Councilwoman would you yield the floor for
I'm done, thank you.
When you call the meeting back to order.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo.
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Mr. Rapozo: I guess and Gary I apologize maybe we didn't
communicate my request over across the street to have Parks here but it's
referencing the December 16 memo that I sent over and it's... the approval was for
a hundred and twenty -three thousand and... a hundred thousand three hundred
and twenty was for land, that was the appraised value so that was obviously what
we are required to pay if we went to condemnation and then the landscaping was
appraised at twenty -three thousand one - fifty. The question I had because it seems
like a reasonable question is the improvements, the land was... I mean that was a
done deal but the improvements which is what I was hoping to get even a ballpark
figure and Mr. Haigh was here and he couldn't answer it and in the letter from
Lenny Rapozo, he's saying that he cannot even give us a ballpark figure, they can't
give anything until March 8 when the bids go out. So my concern is what are we
really looking at because from the scope, the propane tank enclosure with... and
with moss rock walls, the trash bins and enclosure with moss rock walls, the
signage we need to expand the parking lot and repave it by two (2) feet wider with
an inch and a half of asphalt, six (6) foot aluminum fence around the property,
landscaping irrigation system and then the bigger concern was the fees, we're also
going to have to pay for all the legal fees, escrow fees, conveyance tax and all the
documentation fees. So I kind of want to know before I send my approval, what is
the even... what are we looking at a hundred thousand, two hundred thousand,
three hundred thousand and then is that something that's going to be covered by
Federal funds, is that something that's coming out of General fund, I don't even
know where the money is going to be coming from because I'm not so sure if these
expenses will be covered by any of the Federal funds. So before I vote yes I kind of
think we should have that information.
Mr. Heu: Sure and I mean not a problem like I said
first of all, I'm not going to sit here and venture a guess when the Engineer was
previously here and couldn't provide that information, so you know I'm going to
maintain the position of waiting to March 8 to get a cost for the improvements.
Now you mentioned some other associated cost and I think if we can work with you
to identify all the different cost that you would like to have identified and broken
out then I think once we hit March 8, we would be in a position to provide you a
comprehensive breakout of all the cost associated with the items that you just
mentioned.
Mr. Rapozo: Well the cost that I'm concerned is what's in
the purchase agreement and it's detailed in your December 16 memo to Mr. Dale
with attention to Doug Haigh and Doug was here and he did say he would have to
consult with his consultant which would take him a day or two (2) or so but we have
not received anything back so if you could follow up on that I'd appreciate it.
Mr. Heu: Okay. And that's based on a December 16
memo.
Mr. Rapozo: December 16 and we can provide you a copy.
Chair Furfaro: It was also part of the discussion we had
here Gary, we knew the hundred thousand...
Mr. Heu: Right.
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Chair Furfaro: Three hundred dollars and something... was
for the actual land, the detail was in the twenty -six thousand something balance
that we were under the impression that Doug was going to check with his
consultant and give us something back that said a new young edge was six
thousand dollars, the extending of the black top for two feet and one and a half
inches thick was going to be (x) amount of dollars, I mean the consultant, if he
didn't give us a number like that, he maybe shouldn't be a consultant. That's what
we were looking for.
Mr. Hen: Okay and again I apologize for not being
more help to you this afternoon, I just wasn't prepared to speak on this issue.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Bynum did you have another question?
Mr. Bynum: No.
Chair Furfaro: Okay so that's what we're looking for, we're
clear on that.
Mr. Heu: Okay, immediately following the meeting,
I'm going to follow up with Councilmember Rapozo to make sure that I know exactly
what the question is and... so we can go ahead and respond.
Chair Furfaro: Well I appreciate that very much. Thank
you Gary. .
Chair Furfaro: Well I appreciate that very much. Thank
you Gary.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as
follows:
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: What's before us is approving and we're
going to acquire a piece of land to complete the path along Papaloa to create a pond
route. Mr. Haigh last time focused on process and that's what I want to do for a
minute. Because you know I followed this project very closely for a very long time
and so I made it my business to understand the processes as much as I can as a lay
person. But for the people who are familiar with Papaloa, it's where Kinipopo is,
the Shell station and there are resorts on the right hand side of the street, new
housing on the left, you know it's kind of a premier portion of our island and if you
go down Papaloa Road now, you're going to see sidewalk here, sidewalk here, no
sidewalk with a puka you know and then you get into the resort areas, they were
built at different times, some of them have dirt, some of them have walkways, it's
not very together, so when we have this project that's using federal moneys comes
in and I think the answer to Mr. Rapozo's question is this is covered by Federal
funds with matching funds that came from land. So sometimes we have to buy a
little portion of land, sometimes people donate land to us because they see the value
of making these improvements. So as you go down Papaloa what will we end up
with is sidewalks that are contiguous that go and don't have any pukas anymore
and a more uniform look with a really nice pedestrian improvement, so when you go
and I've met with some of the owners, you go there and they say they want to
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
understand it, they want to conceptualize what's this going to be like and we're
saying well we need some of your property to make this fit, and they're saying well
that means you got to remove this low moss rock wall and in this case my gas tank
is in the way, my propane tank is in the way and so the County says yeah we want
to acquire this land, we need to remove this tank, we need to replace this wall, of
course we're going to pave your lot so it looks professional and there's not a whole
lot of (inaudible) and those cost are probably greater than the twenty -three
thousand dollars of the cost of removing the landscape and that's fine with me
because when we finish, we're going to have a much improved pedestrian element
on Papaloa, contiguous sidewalks, something that looks professional. We don't
want to do a hog posh, you know we want it to look like where we live in a
community where we do thoughtful kind of involvement. When we go through this
process about proposing the route and when we go through these changes, it all has
to be run through a whole bunch of people. Mr. Haigh was here last time saying
how did you come up with this figure, and he said he had an appraiser, we had a
second opinion appraiser and the State DOT has a whole Division to make sure that
public's money is spent wisely and they review the appraisal so I have faith in the
process because I've watched it work. As a Councilmember, I want updates, I want
to understand the process, I can get as in engaged into the detail as much as I can,
as much as I choose to but I'm not going to ask every single little tiny question, I'm
going to trust the process and I'm going to trust the people that are doing it to some
extent, I don't need to micromanage every detail, I probably go into more detail than
most because I'm really excited about this project, I think it's a real positive thing.
Having it on Papaloa, so let's see where we are because we're just about to go out to
bid and then in terms of having the exact cost, when they do... they do a cost
estimate we think this segment with all of it planned acquisition, these little details
about landscaping and filling is going to be (x) amount of dollars, and then they
send it out to bid, the bidder has to give you line item direct cost. So when they say
when the bids come back on March 8, we can tell you exactly what that wall is going
to cost and exactly what that... but I don't think they go through that estimate on
each little detail during that process, that would be a waste of our people's time
because we know that that will come out in the process. I've learned a lot about this
process, I want to give assurances to people of Kauai that there's checks and
counter checks and balances including what the questions the Council ask but
that's not the only checks on any public project. There are many that's built into
the system, some people say too many and that's why government work cost more
but it's the tax payers money so we're very careful with it. I'm ready to vote on this
today.
Chair Furfaro: Any more discussion here? Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: Yeah I got some discussion. First of all I'm
not questioning the appraisal at all, that was in the book, I'm not questioning the
appraisal. The appraisal was done by an appraiser, I'm not questioning... it's a
hundred grand, it's a hundred grand. What I'm questioning is all the other
additional agreements that we've made. And I guess I disagree with Mr. Bynum
that this is not micromanaging, I mean micromanaging was if they came in with the
figure and then I started to pound the figure, then that would be micromanaging
but I don't even know the figure. Our job here on the Council is to provide the
oversight, to make sure that the public's money is being spent properly and we don't
even know... we don't even have a general estimate and I agree with Mr. Chair that
if our consultant cannot tell us how much he estimates item (a), (b), (c), (d) then my
gosh we got the wrong consultant, I have to agree with that. I have no problem
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
with the process but I think it goes back to the old ready, fire, aim you know we
ready poom pull the trigger and then once the agreements and the approvals are
done we find out that this project is well over the three hundred, four hundred, five
hundred thousand dollar range, public money. I don't know if you folks been
watching the news, reading the papers in Honolulu, the State is in a crisis, this
county is in a crisis and like I told Mr. Hen and we had a very nice meeting the
other day please do not expect me to approve a penny of non - essential expenditures
until we get a better snap shot of the State's fiscal situation. I mean if it's not
essential, it needs to wait until we get a snap shot, a better idea of how the State is
doing. This is not essential in my opinion, I agree it's nice I think Papaloa needs
this to be done but when we look at the financial situation right now, of this State
and this County, I think we got to be careful and to come up and ask for a approval
on a project with no estimates, I think is irresponsible, I just think it's irresponsible.
And that's just my opinion, that's not micromanaging. It's I think being responsible
fiscally, so with that Mr. Chair, I am not ready to vote on this today and if the
action is to vote, I will vote against it. I would much rather as Mr. Hen said, we can
wait to March 8 and see what it is, thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Councilwoman Yukimura did you have
something?
Ms. Yukimura: No, thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Then I'm going to summarize something here
first of all I think it's really, really important for us to understand when we go out
for a bid and I want to thank Doug Haigh, he answered all the questions
accordingly and they're checks and balances and reviews on the land appraisal but
then we put a twenty -three thousand dollar mark out there that said all these
conditions need to be met at this dollar, well somebody was responsible for putting
that number there and somebody should be able to reconcile it, all project
management requires estimates. And we cannot afford to wait every time until the
bids are open but somebody needs to do a better focus on the estimates and maybe
this will be a test case study for us because if the number comes back forty -six
thousand, fifty -six thousand then we certainly have a little bit to inquire about and
how we do our estimates and what kind of work our consultants do for us but those
are the kinds of things to consider. We have a motion and a second on the floor
right now to approve. Okay and before we take a vote I have to remind you that
there is an opportunity to make a motion to a deferral and it has to get a second but
if it gets a seconded, there's no additional discussion and we come back here after
March 8, so those are our choices. Is there any further discussion? Councilwoman
Nakamura.
Ms. Nakamura: I have a question whether this is a time
sensitive action.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Hen, I'll suspend the rules again if you
can answer that, if you can't answer that we'll just continue on our way.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Chair Furfaro: So I do want to know that... and it's going to
lead to a second question so the rules are suspended, thank you for coming up.
Councilwoman Nakamura.
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Mr. Hen: Again for the record Gary Heu. I don't
believe that it's time sensitive from the perspective of lost of funds; however, I mean
this is one of those circular discussions I think, if we had our way... can you hear
me I see Councilmember Bynum... we certainly would like to get approval on this
matter so that we can go ahead and move ahead. I do hear the concerns, I don't
disagree that historically and it's been you know it's been a point of concern for a
long time is our ability, our confidence in the types of estimates that are provided I
mean that's no secret, I mean this Council have dealt with that issue, the
Administration have dealt with that issue over the years. Having said that what
we're seeing is and the reason why, I don't want to get into the detailed discussion
on what those actual cost or what that actual cost are going to be is that in there
are some recent occasion in which cost estimates and bids came out significantly
lower than what we had anticipated, so we're in this little area where typically I
guess I have my own level of confidence in the types of estimates that I see and I
mentally always make adjustments but like I said in the more recent past we seen
incidents where some of our bids have been coming in significantly under those
estimates. So I know that that's not going to help you in your deliberation, I think
you folks need to proceed as you see fit. Speaking for the Administration I think
we're always in the position where to the extent we can, we'd like to keep projects
moving, there are many things that can slow a project down and so we would look
for your approval today however again going back to that sense of urgency, I do not,
I can sit here in good conscience and say that we're... you know we got funding
that's at risk if this is not approved today so I'm not sure if that helps or that
answers your question.
Ms. Nakamura: Okay that helps. The second question is
what is the source of the funds for this acquisition?
Mr. Heu: My belief is that and I'm sorry that I can't
give you a hundred percent answer but I believe that it's federal fund, they are
federal funds. There may be a portion obviously that is a county match but
primarily federal funding.
Ms. Nakamura: Do you know what the percentage is of the
County match?
Mr. Heu: Typically we have a eighty /twenty match
with the federal funds.
Chair Furfaro: So Mr. Heu on that question we might
actually see an answer that says the twenty -six thousand is actually representing
our twenty percent?
Mr. Heu: One could only hope. But best case scenario,
yeah.
Chair Furfaro: It's possible.
Mr. Heu: But again you know I'm not going to sit here,
that's not my area of expertise in that.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Bynum and then Mr. Rapozo.
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Mr. Bynum: Thanks for the answers Gary and my
concern is that the way this is being framed is like if the cost was a hundred
thousand for the land, it was twenty -three thousand for the cost of the landscape
that was impacted and it seems to be an expectation from the Council that when we
look at the changes that are going to happen to this property, they're going to be in
the twenty -three thousand range and I think they're going to be much higher than
that because it's not just the landscaping, it's moving the wall, it's moving the
things you know doing the project right, the cost are not directly related to all of
them to that twenty -three thousand cost. They're related to what you need to do to
make this project go, I happen to be familiar with that land and there's a big
propane tank that's got to get moved. It's surrounded by a wall, that wall is got to
get replaced right, I don't think we're compensating the landowner and then doing
those improvements that, those are separate so this linkage that I've heard over the
last two (2) meetings between the twenty -three thousand and whatever these cost
are for that property to make those changes I'm worried that they're going to come
back here and say well it's a hundred and fifteen thousand and Councilmembers are
going to say wow look at this twenty -three you know because... these issues are
complex and I don't want to set up the Administration for looking incompetent
when I'm seeing a lot of competence in terms of the way these things are handled.
Mr. Hen: Well I don't want to prolong the discussion
but I think to a certain extent I mean you're right in terms of having an
understanding of... and comparing apples to apples and my understanding is that
the appraisal was made on a specific set of facts. You know after reevaluating what
might be the best way to proceed with the actual project if in fact conditions
changed then that would impact the overall actual cost of the project.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: I guess I don't want to... the impression to be
that we're stonewalling the project, I need the public to understand that we made
the request actually verbally on the 15 with Mr. Haigh and in writing on the 16 and
this is February 9 and you know the response I got really didn't come from Doug
Haigh or Larry Dill, it came from Parks so you know I guess one could argue that
it's the Administration that's stonewalling the project because they're not
responding to our simple request and I just don't want the impression that we're
holding up the project and I know this project is very near and dear to Mr. Bynum,
I'm sorry and rightfully so... that's fine, I'm not saying that it's a bad project, I'm
saying that as a Councilmember in charge of the purse strings, please provide us
with the necessary information to make the decision because I can tell you if it is
some outrageous amount of money and there's seven (7) people on this Council but I
can tell you I'm inclined not to support it especially and the other thing too is if you
look at the numbers, the purchase agreements they break it down by land and
landscaping and then there's the purchase price and even if you add the land and
the landscaping it comes up to an amount, it doesn't even equal to the purchase
price that we paid so there's a conflict in even that and that's what's in the
communication that was sent over to Mr. Dill and we have not received a response.
Gary, I'm just saying we would appreciate it if we can get a response, that's
December 16, it's going on more than enough time to have gotten those question
answered.
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Mr. Hen: Yeah and again my belief is that the
response that was provided to the inquiry that came over, responded to the inquiry
that came over, if there are additional questions or questions that were necessarily
or specifics that weren't necessarily posed in the December communication then
obviously whether this Council takes action today or not, we would still feel
compelled to respond to those specifics. Certainly I hate to dive into areas that I'm
not more intimately familiar with however you know this is a large project and as
Mr. Mickens would probably agree and like any project if you find that a component
of a larger hole turns out to be more... as you move forward on the project, you may
have to cut back on another section or segment and so again I don't want to speak
out of school but for the relative to the concern of overreaching, over spending, not
having a good handle of the estimate you know just speaking in general terms I
would anticipate that that's how we would try to make adjustments for any and
unanticipated cost relative to this particular segment.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you Mr. Hen.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as
follows:
Chair Furfaro: Let me share with you folks because I don't
like when somebody implies or speaks for me so let me summarize. I have no
problem voting for this today. I want the Administration to know that on or around
the 15 March, I would like to have the reconciliation of the bids in front of us
because the danger here is project over rise, it's a danger. It's not something that
the Council should massage or something, it's something that we should expect. If
somebody tells us twenty -three thousand dollars for this estimate of the project,
okay let's try and be within ten percent with a contingency, let's not be twice the
amount estimated or three times the amount estimated, so this would be a good test
for us to get this summary reconciled and then ask the question so how did our
consultant tell us this number was that. I would like to move forward and vote on
this today. Again before we come to the vote, if there is enough people that want it
deferred then I need to have a deferral introduced before we vote.
Mr. Rapozo: I move to defer.
Chair Furfaro: But I do want to say to the Administration
that I plan to have this reconciliation of the landscaping, parking lot and so forth on
the future agenda sometime after the 15, I think it will be a good exercise for us to
go through when it comes to estimating contract work especially as you know we
need to tighten up some of the project cost with understanding the total amount
going forward. So Mr. Rapozo, I stated I'm prepared to vote for this with a follow up
meeting on or around March 15 to reconcile those estimates.
Mr. Rapozo: I'd like to vote on it too, I'm not prepared
obviously I don't have the information to vote on it, so I would make a motion to
defer whichever way it goes, I think we need more time, I think we are entitled to
an estimate, I think we're entitled to at least a ballpark estimate prior to even
requesting an approval, so I'll go ahead and make that motion to defer with no
expectation of getting a second. I make a motion to defer. Defer until the next
Council Meeting.
Ms. Nakamura: I'll second that.
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Mr. Rapozo moved to defer C 2011 -69, seconded by Ms. Nakamura, and failed by a
3:4 vote (Bynum, Chang, Furfaro, Yukimura voted no).
Chair Furfaro: So it passes on a deferral 4:3.
Mr. Rapozo: Did it pass? I don't think, I think we need to
do a roll call Mr. Chair.
Chair Furfaro:
OT MI -s's_
I heard... Okay I'm going to call for the vote.
Kawakami, Nakamura, Rapozo
TOTAL — 3,
AGAINST DEFERRAL: Bynum, Chang, Yukimura, Furfaro TOTAL — 4,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0.
Mr. Nakamura: The motion fails.
Chair Furfaro: Okay so it has been deferred?
Mr. Bynum: So it has not.
Chair Furfaro: It has not been deferred? How am I? Can I
ask Mr. Chang, how did you vote?
Mr. Chang: No.
Chair Furfaro: Oh, you were a no, okay. There's my error in
counting. I pride myself on the fact that I did go to public school and I do know how
to count. Okay we're back on the motion...
Mr. Nakamura: Motion to approve.
Chair Furfaro: Now I want to add a little addition to that I
expect Mr. Hen, you did understood my point to having this reappear on the agenda
sometime after March 8 so we can reconcile the variances in the estimate, okay?
Shall we go ahead and... Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: I just and if I'm being redundant I apologize,
it seems to me at the last two (2) meetings there was some linkage between this
twenty -three thousand and what the cost of these changes that some of the... which
Councilmember Rapozo listed moving the tank, putting in fencing, I don't think
those two (2) numbers are linked... you know this as I said earlier you go out there
on the ground with our people, with the owner who are business people running
businesses say this is what we intend to do, the business owner says yes but you
know if you're going to take my wall down can you put it over here, it's in
negotiation and it goes through in good faith and then we make agreements about
what and come to reasonable conclusion yes if we put this path through here, it's
going to have this impact on your property and we're going to mediate it in this
fashion so I don't expect that those numbers are going to be twenty -three thousand
and I don't want us to make a mistake in thinking those should be linked. I just
wanted to make that statement.
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Chair Furfaro: Okay and that's an item I somewhat
disagree with you because what I'm saying is there was a (inaudible) that
Mr. Haigh from me the last time that we should deserve the response even if it was
the higher estimates. Now we're going to get to a point where they're going to open
some bids, they're going to come back and tell us exactly what those numbers are
and it might be something that in the future we sharpen our pencil on. I don't think
it was a difficult communication from me as Chair especially since Mr. Haigh was
here. So is there anymore discussion? Okay, we have a motion and a second to
approve.
The motion to approve C 2011 -69 was then put, and carried by a 4:3 vote
(Kawakami, Nakamura, Rapozo voted no).
Chair Furfaro: Passes 4:3. Next item. Oh? You know I'm
going to take a deviation from the agenda, we have some follow up on the proposed
bill 2399 and let's go to that now, I'm sorry four hundred (400), I'll put my glasses
on.
Mr. Nakamura:
Chair Furfaro:
Mr. Clerk.
Council Chair.
Twenty -four hundred (2400), go ahead
Mr. Kawakami recused himself from this item.
Mr. Nakamura: Council Chair, we're on page four (4) of the
Council's agenda on a bill for first reading, proposed draft bill 2400.
Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2400) — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
ARTICLE 19, CHAPTER 22, KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED,
RELATING TO PLASTIC BAG REDUCTION: Mr. Bynum moved for passage of
proposed draft Bill No. 2400 on first reading, that it be ordered to print, that a
public hearing hereon be scheduled for March 2, 2011, and that it thereafter
be referred to the Public Safety & Environmental Services Committee, seconded by
Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: I do have some comments.
Chair Furfaro: Let me announce again, we have a motion to
approve and schedule a public hearing on March 2 and we have a second by
Mr. Rapozo, is there anybody in the audience that would like to give additional
testimony? Okay, we're back to order and now we'll do a roll call vote.
Mr. Rapozo: Mr. Chair, I just really wanted to save my
comments as far as the bill and the intent although a lot of it came out in the earlier
communication with the testimony but I just wanted to explain why I introduced
the amendment and it's really to address the food safety issue. I've been contacted
by several food service people that had a concern about the food safety. I did some
research on the internet, made some phone calls, spoke to some other jurisdictions
and interestingly enough many jurisdictions on the mainland that ban plastic bag
exempt, completely exempt food service, pharmacies and for some reason dry
cleaners. There's no requirement for those entities to use biodegradable it's just an
outright exemption and for the food service establishments it's because of food
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
safety and it's quite common on the mainland. The amendment is specific to that,
the amendment does have some room for amending for as far as the type of bag,
right now it's a biodegradable bag that's compostable that can compost in a
composting tub and it also provides the restaurants and food service operators to
provide that single use bag that in my opinion is much more recyclable than the
paper. We can use these plastic bags over and over at home. I think we come
accustom to that and with some tweaking of the definition of the bag, we will have a
bag that is biodegradable and compostable. It will satisfy the environmental
concerns as well as the food safety concerns. This bill amendment, the amendment
to the ordinance has nothing to do with the economics, I mean although the
restaurants will have a break economically, that's not the intent of the bill or the
amendment. The intent was specifically targeted at food safety and the fact that
cross contamination of foodborne pathogens is a reality. You will never be able to
track how many people got sick from a bag but the reality is no one can deny the
fact that reusable bags do harbor and grow foodborne pathogen bacteria, it's a
known fact and you know if we save one (1) person from an illness, I think we've
done our job. The reality is I just wanted to make it clear that the intent of this was
to address the food safety issue, to be a part of community of environmental
awareness in line with food safety. So with that Mr. Chair thank you very much
and I'm hoping we can get this passed going forward.
Chair Furfaro: Any other discussion? I have two (2) things I
do want to share with you, the two (2) bills earlier referenced I'm going to have
circulated and one actually prohibits at the State level certain businesses in the
State from distributing single use a plastic check out bags as defined in this act
with the exception it would not apply any more stringent ordinances than adopted
by the counties. The other bill that's processed here is a very interesting new bag
fee that's coming from the Senate bill 1363 and that bill basically allows there to be
a twenty -five cent charge to offset the distribution of every non - reusable bag and it's
very interesting this particular one allows thirteen cents out of every twenty -five
cents to go into the State's General Fund. So we have a lot of moving parts here
and I'll have this circulated by the Clerk to all of you. I want you to know also it is
probably never been in my years on the Council that we would not in fact hear a bill
all the way through on the first reading and to get it into Committee so that we can
gather additional information so forth. At first blush I'm very pleased that we
passed the plastic bag bill just at the end of last year but I'm hoping for further
discussions and that's why I will support this going into Committee but at this
particular time it seems like we have also gotten the attention of State Legislative
bodies and that should be circulated to all of you. Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: Yeah I made my comments earlier so I
wasn't going to say anything but you triggered something that I want to respond to,
you know I'm going to vote for this bill on first reading because I want us to engage
in the dialog. I want to you know, in future testimony talk about the critique of the
one study that you know that comes from other food safety experts. The State is
moving this years and both of the bills that we discussed today do not preempt the
county which is a good thing so they are allowing the county that have already
acted on this you know and I think part of their motivation is that the
environmental protection agency praised Maui and Kauai County for these bills.
We were seventh community in the Country that did this and there are many, many
more since then just in the year and a half and I fully support that any
Councilmember on this Council should be able to put their proposals and ideas
before the public and have a full and complete dialog, that's why I can't imagine too
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
many circumstances where I would vote against the bill at first reading but just a
few months ago I put planning bills before this Council. Fully expecting that we
would have that public dialog and they were killed at first reading so I'm not going
to make that same mistake about keeping our citizens from being engaged in that
process. We started today with great testimony from people, we will have a public
hearing on March 2 but it will go to Committee after that and you know I have my
mind open to what the outcome will be.
Chair Furfaro: Any further discussion before I call for the
vote. Clerk we need a roll call vote.
The motion for passage on first reading was then put, and carried by the following
vote:
FOR PASSAGE: Bynum, Chang, Nakamura, Rapozo, TOTAL — 6,
Yukimura, Furfaro
AGAINST PASSAGE: None
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: Kawakami
Mr. Nakamura:
Six (6) ayes Mr. Chair.
TOTAL — 0,
TOTAL — 0,
TOTAL — 1.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. And there will be public
opportunity as we go forward to give testimony. Next item.
Mr. Nakamura: We're on page, at the bottom of page three
(3) of the Council's agenda Mr. Chair on a claim, communication C 2011 -70.
C 2011 -70 Communication (1/19/2011) from the County Clerk, transmitting
a claim filed against the County of Kauai by State Farm Mutual Insurance Co., as
subrogee for Kathleen Ann Smith for damages to her vehicle, pursuant to Section
23.06, Charter of the County of Kauai: Ms. Yukimura moved to refer C 2011 -70 to
the County Attorney's Office for disposition and/or report back to the Council,
seconded by Mr. Chang, and unanimously carried.
Chair Furfaro: Next item.
Mr. Nakamura: We're on page four (4) of the Council's
agenda Mr. Chair on Committee Reports.
COMMITTEE REPORTS:
A report (No. CR EDR 2011 -02) submitted by the Economic Development &
Renewable Energy Strategies Committee, recommending that the following be
received for the record.
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COUNCIL MEETING
FEBRUARY 9, 2011
"EDR 2011 -02 Communication (1 -27 -2011) from Councilmember
Nadine K. Nakamura, requesting the presence of the Director of
Economic Development at the February 2, 2011 Committee meeting to
provide an overview of the Comprehensive Economic Development Strategies
(CEDS) 2010- 2015,"
Mr. Bynum moved for approval of the report, seconded by Mr. Rapozo, and
unanimously carried.
Mr. Nakamura: Mr. Chair next matters are three (3)
Resolutions these would be Resolution No. 2011 -36, Resolution No. 2011 -37, and
Resolution No. 2011 -38.
RESOLUTIONS:
Resolution No. 2011 -36, RESOLUTION CONFIRMING MAYORAL
APPOINTMENT TO THE CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION (John Harold Low):
Ms. Yukimura moved to defer Resolution No. 2011 -36 until the interviews are
scheduled, seconded by Mr. Chang, and unanimously carried.
Resolution No. 2011 -37, RESOLUTION CONFIRMING MAYORAL
APPOINTMENT TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION (Wayne Kazuo Katayama):
Ms. Yukimura moved to defer Resolution No. 2011 -37 until the interviews are
scheduled, seconded by Mr. Chang, and unanimously carried.
Resolution No. 2011 -38, RESOLUTION CONFIRMING MAYORAL
APPOINTMENT TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION (Herman John Texeira):
Ms. Yukimura moved to defer Resolution No. 2011 -38 until the interviews are
scheduled, seconded by Mr. Chang, and unanimously carried.
Chair Furfaro: Next item.
Mr. Nakamura: Next matter is a bill for first reading,
proposed draft bill no. 2399.
BILL FOR FIRST READING:
Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2399) — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE TO AMEND
CHAPTER 23, OF THE KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED,
RELATING TO THE REGULATION OF BUSINESS AND TRADES: Mr. Bynum
moved to approve proposed draft Bill No. 2399 on first reading, that it be ordered to
print, that a public hearing hereon be scheduled for March 9, 2011, and that it
thereafter be referred to the Economic Development & Renewal Energy Strategies
Committee, seconded by Mr. Rapozo.
Chair Furfaro: Anybody in the audience that wishes to
speak? Seeing none, any further discussion here? If not.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes, Mr. Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Go right ahead. Councilwoman.
Ms. Yukimura: I think we have an amendment.
COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Mr. Kawakami moved to amend Bill No. 2399 as circulated, seconded by
Mr. Rapozo.
Chair Furfaro:
The floor is yours sir.
Mr. Kawakami: Thank you Mr. Chair and thank you
Councilmembers. The amendment here, hold on... I wish I could discuss the bill
first before going into this but that's alright. The amendment here does two (2)
things, one (1) is that it requires the vendors to maintain an inventory of products
that are going to be offered for sale, and two (2) it allows the Office of Economic
Development to conduct inspections on vendors, farms or areas of manufacturing
this service. An important purpose, one (1) we do need to have what they call a gate
keeping mechanism in place so that the Office of Economic Development can have
specific list of what products are offered for sale. And you know that's a common
practice in the retail industry so that people are not just coming in, putting in
whatever they want for sale in the Sunshine markets, and two (2) it allows OED to
go in and make sure that these products are being grown and manufactured on
Kauai, so that's just the amendment. Any questions?
Chair Furfaro: Seems like there's no questions. There's an
opportunity right now to vote on this amendment. All those interest... and any
questions as I close the questions period? No. Okay... all those in favor of the
amendment.
The motion to approve the amendment as circulated by Mr. Kawakami was then
put, and unanimously carried. (see Attachment 1)
Chair Furfaro:
Now we'll go on from there.
Mr. Nakamura: We're at the proposed draft bill 2399 as
amended for roll call Mr. Chair.
Ms. Yukimura: Mr. Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Did you want to add anything about the
actual bill, I'm sorry if I went straight to the amendment.
Mr. Kawakami: Sure, okay. This bill does a few things,
before I get into it, a couple of thank you's, I want to thank the politicians involved
earlier on that created the Sunshine Markets, I believe Councilmember Yukimura
was a Councilmember at the time when the first Sunshine Market was established.
I believe in the early 80s?
Ms. Yukimura: 70s, late 70s.
Mr. Kawakami: Late 70s. So I was still.
Ms. Yukimura: 78. Were you born?
Mr. Kawakami: So back then. And it's really blossomed and
it created an opportunity for our farmers and for that I want to say thank you, two
(2) you are going to notice that the bill does piggyback on an already established
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
program, it is the Kauai Made program. I'd like to thank people like Beth Tokioka
and also our Council Chair Furfaro who introduced that bill by request at that time.
Folks this bill does a few things, seven (7) things and now with the amendment it
now does eight (8) things but the first seven (7) things that it does is number one (1)
it allows Kauai farmers to sell value added products in our Sunshine Markets.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Kawakami.
Mr. Kawakami: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: I'm going to let you start with item two (2),
he has a tape change.
Mr. Kawakami: Sure.
Chair Furfaro: We're taking a break for a tape change.
There being no objections, the Council recessed at 2:54 p.m.
The Council reconvened at 2:59 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: We're back and I will recognize
Mr. Kawakami who had the floor at the time of our break.
Mr. Kawakami: Thank you Mr. Chair. Number two (2) in
light of challenges that were highlighted earlier it allows vendors to offer for sale
recyclable or paper bags that comply with our ordinance so that the vendors can
recoup some of their cost. Number three (3) deletes reference to the Department of
Public Works and replaces it with Department of Parks and Recreation, four (4) it
sets parameters to which vendors who are offering value added products, it sets
parameters that they must comply with, number one (1) they must participate in
the Kauai Made Program and the reason why is because Kauai Made is a County
program and they have already established standards that answer many of the
concerns that some of the Administration had when I was working on this, two (2) it
requires manufacturers to use a certified kitchen and acquire permits from the
Department of Health. Three (3), they must display permits at the point of sale.
Next one is that they must sign off with OED that the product complies with the
intent of section 23 -3.4 and it also requires that local Kauai grown agricultural
products are utilized in the production and doesn't take into consideration the value
and labor, intellectual property, or packaging, etc., into the manufacturing process.
So in a nutshell what that means is that the ingredients has to be grown on Kauai
and they're not going to take into account that I live on Kauai and it's a Kauai
idea, so it's Kauai Made and then import all their ingredients, the ingredients need
to be grown on Kauai. Number five (5) it sets the parameters of the number of
value added vendors to a ratio of 1/8 and the reason for that is we did not want to
take away the original intent of the Sunshine Markets which was for growers but as
we evolve we want to increase the opportunity and profitability of farmers, we're
starting off with this ratio of 1/8 so what that means is that in K51oa where you
have thirty -two (32) vendors, you have four (4) that will be value added vendors.
Kalaheo which has eight (8) vendors, you'd only have one (1). Kapa`a has fifty -six
(56) vendors, so you would have seven (7) slots of available for value added vendors.
Hanapepe has fourteen (14), which would allow two (2). Kilauea has eighteen (18)
which would allow two (2), Uihu`e has forty -seven (47) which would allow six (6),
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Kekaha has seven (7) which would allow one (1). Folks that's what is contained in
this bill. Do you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them.
Chair Furfaro: I'm going to go ahead and recognize
Mr. Bynum first followed by Councilwoman Yukimura as, thank you Mr. Kawakami
for summarizing the bill, Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: Thanks Councilmember for your leadership
on this issue and I just have one question about the value added... you know many,
some of our vendors who currently sell produce also have value added products,
would they have to get a permit, be one of the eight (8) or... so that's just a technical
question or would that 1/8 ratio would that be just for a value added only booth?
Mr. Kawakami: That's a very good question. From my
understanding and we can send over a note to get that clarified, from what I
understand whether you're an existing vendor or not the total amount of value
added vendors that would be permitted would be eight (8), so whether that person
already has a booth and now has a product would still be counted towards that total
inventory.
Mr. Bynum: Thanks for answering that question and
then just a comment if I may now.
Mr. Kawakami: Sure.
Mr. Bynum: Again thank you for working on this bill
because we've been talking about this forever and I think this Council passed a
Resolution requesting information from the Administration when I talked to them
about it, they're like we're working on it so I'm glad that we are at the point where
we have a bill.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Councilwoman Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes, I also really appreciate your leadership
and that this bill is being introduced. My question is in terms of your value added
vendors, will that be a first come, first serve application process.
Mr. Kawakami: That's another good question and that is part
of the discussion you know I got to give credit where credit is due, this is not only
my partaking, we've been working with George Costa, Bill Splitz, and Terry Phillips
and so part of the process is we got to come up with these rules, Administrative
rules and so one of the things that we're discussing right now is we're working on
this parallel platform is how they would come about with that selection process. So
first come, first serve was definitely a consideration and another consideration and
it happens in the private sector, I don't know how it would translate over to this, is
that the Office of Economic Development would have the latitude to go ahead and
screen some of these products coming across and decide what would be a good fit for
the Sunshine Markets and make the necessary you know decision making as far as
who gets in and who doesn't get in.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you for your answer and I think then
we might want to consider an amendment that makes the effective date of this
ordinance or at least gives room for rule making before you know the program is
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COUNCIL MEETING
FEBRUARY 9, 2011
actually in effect and the lawyers need to figure out the language but something
that recognizes there's going to be some rule making before things can actually get
into operation.
Mr. Kawakami: That thought did cross my mind and thank
you for bringing it up. I figured that the easiest thing to do is to just if we run into
a period where we're ready to vote on the bill and yet the rules have not been
created., then we could just defer it but if you want to set a date or however which
way, I just figured you know we'll defer it, I'm not in a rush, I'm not rushing the
Administration to come up with rules because I know they're working on it. It's
something they bought in to so I figure there's two (2) routes we could go. One (1)
you could set a date or put in language saying that this ordinance take effect upon
the approval on any Administrative rules or two (2) we could just go ahead and
defer it. But whichever which way is easiest.
Ms. Yukimura: We can confirm with Attorneys before the
public hearing but usually you pass the bill to authorize the rule making.
Mr. Kawakami: Okay.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: The existing bill, the Sunshine Market bill
already addresses the rule making, it's in Section 1, I believe it's (c)(1) the Director
of Office of Economic Development consultations, with the amended version that
will say Parks, is authorized to promogate the rules and regulations relating to the
area and so forth, so the rule making authority is already there, they just need to
amend the rules and they have their... I guess if it's going to be lottery or however
it's going to be handled in the rules of the department in my mind, I guess as how I
see it. So the authority is already there in the existing Sunshine Market ordinance.
Ms. Yukimura: But.
Chair Furfaro: Councilwoman Yukimura if you want to add
to that, go right ahead.
Ms. Yukimura: Well if the original ordinance authorized
value added products then that rule making and the present law will be sufficient...
Mr. Rapozo: It does.
Ms. Yukimura: Value added?
Mr. Rapozo: Well that's the amendment... he's amending
the existing law and in the amendment we're adding in value added products in
that rule making authority.
Ms. Yukimura: Well that's why you would have to pass this
bill.
Mr. Rapozo: Right.
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COUNCIL MEETING
FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Ms. Yukimura: In order to have the rule making that applies
to value added.
Mr. Rapozo: Correct.
Chair Furfaro: Okay? So is there any more discussion?
Nadine did you have your hand up? Go right ahead.
Ms. Nakamura: I just wanted to thank you Councilmember
Kawakami for drafting this bill. I wanted to just say that I had gotten some
concerns about the vendors and Sunshine Market who right now don't have the
authority to sell recyclable bags so thank you for including that in this bill. I think
it just creates a level playing field, so thank you for doing that. I wanted to, I'm just
wondering is it better to be asking, discussing it here or in Committee?
Chair Furfaro: We can discuss it here, we can...
Ms. Nakamura: Either place? Okay. I would like to, I know
there was a comment earlier about the definition about value added and how much
of that product ought to be Kauai based and I think that's one (1) area that I'd like
to explore more and I also had a discussion with an insurance person who
mentioned that they are looking at developing a product whereby rather than
individual vendors getting their own million dollar product liability coverage that
there be kind of like umbrella that they participate in to make it more affordable. I
don't know if that's something that we would want to address.
Mr. Kawakami: Can I respond to that?
Chair Furfaro: Yes.
Mr. Kawakami: Thank you very much, that brings up a very,
two (2) very good points, one (1) you know in the Kauai Made Program there is no
definitive percentage of what constitutes you know that ingredient or that formula
that says... all it says it's a substantial amount so I am plugging along and George
is working with a clear definition as to what that would be so one (1) very good point
and we're working on it.
Ms. Nakamura: Okay.
Mr. Kawakami: As far as the insurance you know I did do a
little research into that and there's a website Farmers Market Coalition. Org and it
is insurance options for Farmers Markets but I think it's more geared to the market
itself, so what they've done here they have like a coop insurance where all these
different vendors can come in and be covered under an umbrella plan and so of the
stats that they came up with are pretty interesting when you think about the
insurance side. Some of the stuff like thirty -nine (39) percent of markets require
that their vendors purchase liability insurance but 1/3 of these markets do not
require proof of purchase, so that kind of goes into what Ken Taylor was speaking
about. Fifty -three percent (53 %) of markets require that their vendors purchase
general liability insurance and then it goes to say, it gives you some stats as to and
I can't find it right now but it did have an interesting statistics about certain
farmers market that their insurance covers all the vendors. But in this case we will
be requiring the individual vendor to carry a one million dollar product liability
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
insurance so the two (2) quotes that I did get because there are some cost associate
with this venture you know there is no such thing as a free lunch and still the
county, we got to protect our taxpayers from any kind of liability. The two (2)
quotes I got range and I'm going to go on the high side between five hundred and
eight hundred a year which breaks down to roughly about forty -two dollars or
seventy dollars a month and then another cost, while we're on cost it's associated
with this is to participate in the Kauai Made Program which is about fifty bucks a
year. But with that they get some POS material, they get the stickers, they get on
the brochures, so they get on the marketing. But it is a good point on the insurance
and I would like to take a deeper look and when we get to Committee level, I'm sure
it's going to come up.
Ms. Nakamura: And just lastly, I don't know how many of
you have gone to that Hilo market, you know sometimes we plan trips around that
market being open but that the you know I think there's a lot of value added
products at that market and you hit on it when you said that that's taking it from
the raw product to something that's going to bring much more value, it almost
should be promoted and I'm a little concerned about the 1/8, I think I understand
what you're trying to protect but also to give the farmers greater economic
opportunities. So that's something I'd like to look at.
Chair Furfaro: Go ahead Mr. Kawakami.
Mr. Kawakami: I totally agree because the trend is coming
from the retail side and when you think about how can we create more opportunity,
and more profitability for farmers, when you can take a raw product and create a
value to it and market it, that's where the profitability really bumps up. So I agree
and I got to tell you that the 1/8 was an attempt to strike the right balance.
Because this is a new venture, we didn't want to get too ambitious about it, we
figured that 1/8 would be a good starting point and then like anything else the
market is going to dictate the demand and the behavior so if this thing starts rolling
you know that 1/8 will go down to 1/ maybe % and so on and so forth but to gain
traction on this, I sit in a unique spot with my other job where I actually sit on the
board and then I'm a part of the administration side and I've learned that it's easier
to implement your ideas if you can buy in from the guys that are responsible to
administering it so this is something that we came to a compromise with. And it's
something they can definitely buy into and so we're starting at that 1/8.
Chair Furfaro: Very good, very good. Councilwoman
Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes I think the 1/8 is a good starting point
and then testing it. I just wanted to say I did give, when Ms. Tokioka was the head
of OED, copies of the Davis California's market and all their rules, so there is that
and in that market they had actually had chefs preparing food that you can eat
there on site, with the same kinds of requirements that they'd be made from
produce that was grown within a certain radius of Davis California, so that's
another level we can look at but we need to take one step at a time. Those rules
covered that, it was a Saturday market and it was a wonderful community event, so
I think you're increasing the visibility and the attractiveness of customers to the
market by this and you're definitely increasing the productivity and the profitability
of farmers.
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
Chair Furfaro: Well we can have more of that discussion
as it goes through public hearing and then it ends up in Nadine's Committee.
Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: I don't want to belabor that but what caught
my attention I think your answer is very thoughtful and you know and the
intellectual property thing, so basically you can't just have this idea that I'm on
Kauai that's very important because we don't want this markets to turn into flee
markets, t- shirts and all that kind stuff right? So it's that balance and you
obviously given a lot of thought, so thank you.
Mr. Kawakami:
Chair Furfaro:
Mr. Kawakami:
Thank you.
You have the floor.
Actually, no.
Chair Furfaro: You're good? Okay any further discussion
before I call for the vote? Councilwoman Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: I just wanted to let you know that I have a
Resolution here that was passed by the Council 2006 -06 draft I and I just noticed
that it was passed on February 8, 2006 so it's like five (5) years to the week and it's
a Resolution requesting the Administration to promote and allow agricultural
products grown and processed on Kauai at the Kauai Sunshine Markets and I
worked on this with Louisa Wooten and so I just wanted to really thank
Councilmember Kawakami for bringing what is really overdue to fruition and I
really think it's... it's the next level for our Sunshine Markets and I think it's going
to be an extremely good thing for our island.
Mr. Kawakami: Mr. Chair, two (2) points.
Chair Furfaro: You have the floor.
Mr. Kawakami: Thank you. As much as I would like to say
that I've timed this introduction as this bill to coincide with your Resolution, I
cannot but eh what a coincidence but number two (2) you know I got to tell you the
truth Ms. Wooten is one of the main reasons why I did this thing because we go to
the Kapa`a one and sometimes we see her almost like an outcast and I mean she's
extremely popular, she has a great product and we just felt that it was a shame that
she didn't have at least an opportunity to get in there like everybody else and I
wanted to say thanks to the farmers that are out there keeping the dream alive and
you know if it hadn't been for you, we will not be here today so thank you too.
Thank you for all the Councilmembers for their consideration for this bill.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Now on that note this is a roll
call vote.
The motion for passage of Bill No. 2399 was then put, and carried by the following
vote:
FOR PASSAGE: Bynum, Chang, Kawakami, Nakamura, TOTAL — 7,
Rapozo, Yukimura, Furfaro
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COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 9, 2011
AGAINST PASSAGE: None
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None
4\ /3,10lilia,0lU1plum
TOTAL — 0,
TOTAL — 0.
There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 3:19 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
PETER A. N KAMURA
County Clerk
/ds
A 1TACkYy1C, 0 I
(February 9, 2011)
FLOOR AMENDMENT
Bill No. 2399, Relating to Regulation of Business and Trades
INTRODUCED BY: Derek S. K. Kawakami (by request)
Amend Bill No. 2399, Sec. 23- 3.4(e) to read as follows:
"(e) The County shall require each individual vendor who will be selling
produce grown on Kauai and value -added product(s) at the Sunshine Market to
comply with the following:
(1) Shall obtain a permit from the Office of Economic Development
to become a qualified vendor to utilize the "Kaua'i-Made" logomark according
to Sec. 23 -5.4. Vendors of both produce and /or value -added products shall
submit an inventory of items being sold that meet this criteria. The vendor
shall maintain membership in good standing in [the Kaua'i Made program]
either program (whichever applies) [so] as long as the vendor sells produce
and/or value -added product(s) in the Sunshine Markets.
(2) Shall prepare value -added product(s) in a certified kitchen as
specified by the Department of Health, state and federal laws, including but
not limited to, labeling laws, and shall furnish the copies of the permit(s) to
the Office of Economic Development as partial evidence of suitability for the
product to be sold in the Sunshine Markets.
(3) Shall obtain and display at the Sunshine Market site(s) all
requisite permits furnished by the Department of Health and shall comply
with any and all requirements of the Department of Health for retail sales at
the Sunshine Market sites without any obligation on the part of the County
of Kaua'i to assist such vendor or adapt the markets as a result of the sale of
processed products.
(4) Shall sign an acknowledgment furnished by the Director of the
Office of Economic Development that the vendor is bound by the intent of Sec.
23 -3.4, that the Sunshine Markets are for the sale of agricultural products
grown on Kauai, and that the Director has sole discretion as to whether the
product meets the intent of Sec. 23 -3.4 after reviewing all pertinent evidence
furnished by the vendor[.], including, but not limited to the inspection of the
vendor's farms or area where produce is grown and /or manufactured. The
test for meeting said intent shall be the relative utilization of local Kauai
grown agricultural products in the final product and not the value of labor,
intellectual property, packaging or other factors or other components used in
the final product for determining whether or not the product meets the intent
1
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of this ordinance.
(5) The Director of the Office of Economic Development shall set the
number of permits for value -added products at a ratio of no more than one -
eighth (1/8) of the total vendor stalls available for each market. The total
number of permits is set at the sole discretion of the Director.
(6) The Director of the Office of Economic Development may
establish fees for vendors participating in the Sunshine Market.
(7) Vendors of value added products shall carry product liability
insurance in the amount of One- Million Dollars ($1,000,000.00) naming the
County of Kauai as an additional insured party of the policy. Vendors shall
submit notice of renewal to the County on each anniversary of said product
liability insurance policy or whenever a new product is added to the policy or
upon vending of a new product in the market."
(Material to be deleted is bracketed. New material is underscored.)
2
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