HomeMy WebLinkAbout03/14/2012 Regular Council MeetingCOUNCIL MEETING
MARCH 14, 2012
The Council Meeting of the Council of the County of Kaua`i was called to
order by the Council Chair at the Council Chambers, 4396 Rice Street, Room 201,
Lihu`e, Kaua`i, on Wednesday, March 14, 2012 at 9:43 a.m., after which the
following members answered the call of the roll:
Honorable
Honorable
Honorable
Honorable
Honorable
Honorable
Honorable
Ms. Nakamura moved to approve the Minutes as
Mr. Rapozo, and unanimously carried.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA.
Mr. Rapozo moved for approval of the agenda as
Mr. Chang, and unanimously carried.
Tim Bynum
Dickie Chang
KipuKai Kuali`i
Nadine K. Nakamura
Mel Rapozo
JoAnn A. Yukimura
Jay Furfaro
MINUTES of the following meetings of the Council:
Council Goal Setting Workshop of January 24, 2012
Council Meeting of January 25, 2012
Public Hearing of February 15, 2012 re: Bills Nos.
and 2428.
CONSENT CALENDAR:
circulated, seconded by
2424, 2425, 2426, 2427,
circulated, seconded by
C 2012 -69 Communication (02/13/2012) from the County Engineer,
transmitting for Council consideration, a traffic resolution establishing a no- parking
zone along a portion of the County access road in the vicinity of Vidinha Stadium
soccer fields, Lihu`e District: Mr. Rapozo moved to receive C 2012 -83 for the record,
seconded by Mr. Kuali`i, and unanimously carried.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended for public testimony.
BRAD ROCKWELL, POWER SUPPLY MANAGER, KIUC: Good
Morning, Chair, I wish to speak on Bill No. 2424, the Bill for an ordinance to allow
solar energy facilities in the agriculture district.
I am Brad Rockwell representing KIUC, I am the Power Supply Manager for
KIUC. Thank you for the opportunity to testify on this issue.
COUNCIL MEETING 2 MARCH 14, 2012
KIUC is concerned about the impact this bill as written could have on
planned solar projects. We understand that this bill is meant to address Act 217
amending the Hawai`i Revised Statutes to allow solar farms to be placed on lands
with soil classified by the State's Land Study Bureau with an overall productivity
rating of B, C, D, or E. For lands classified B or C, however, a solar farm cannot
occupy more than ten (10) acres or twenty percent (20 %) of the land, or whichever is
less. This bill would add an extra County approval process with public hearing and
use permit steps for solar projects looking to be built on B rated lands. KIUC
understands the desire to reserve our best agricultural lands for farming and it is
our understanding that there are currently tens of thousands of acres of such lands
that are not in farming today. As I will explain, the total amount of solar resources
that can be developed on Kaua`i is relatively small compared to the amount of
available prime agricultural lands. And so KIUC believes the bill should recognize
this fact.
KIUC's Strategic Plan calls for a transition to fifty percent (50 %) renewable
generation by 2023. Solar photovoltaic or PV has been the renewable generation
technology that has been at the leading edge of this transition largely due to ease of
permitting. There is a limit, however, to how much solar PV KIUC's grid can take.
We currently believe the limit on large utility scale solar PV projects is fifty percent
(50 %) of the daytime load due to the need to be able to cover the intermittent nature
of solar PV with batteries and conventional spinning reserve. Currently our daytime
load is fifty to sixty megawatts (50 to 60 MW) which equates to a limit of twenty -
five to thirty megawatts (25 to 30 MW) of large utility scale solar PV projects. In
other words, when the clouds come, the batteries are needed to make -up for the loss
of solar generation, but the batteries do not last long, minutes. And so if the clouds
remain, our conventional generators will need to cover the loss of solar generation
for longer periods, hours.
To understand the scale of an effective limit of twenty -five to thirty (25 -30
MW) of solar PV is helpful to know that it takes about four (4) acres to produce one
(1) MW of solar PV it on Kaua`i. Therefore, for the foreseeable future, KIUC believes
that the maximum land required for large utility scale solar PV projects will be
limited to about 120 acres for grid stability reasons.
As of today KIUC has twenty -one megawatts (21 MW) of solar PV in
development, three megawatts (3 MW) in Koloa on D and E rated lands; six
megawatts (6 MW) in `Ele`ele adjacent to the Port Allen Power Plant on industrial
zoned lands; and twelve megawatts (12 MW) in Anahola Department of Hawaiian
Home Lands (DHHL). We recently released a request for offer looking for a suitable
site for an additional eight to ten (8 to 10) megawatts which would require an
additional approximate forty (40) acres. An additional ten megawatts (10 MW) or
forty (40) acres could possibly be sought by KIUC if large cost effective long term
energy storage such as pump storage hydro becomes available.
COUNCIL MEETING 3 MARCH 14, 2012
In summary, since my time is up, KIUC believes the amount of land required
for additional solar PV projects is quite small in comparison to the amount of prime
ag lands available for farming, and still believes the additional step that this bill as
written will impose is unnecessary. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: It is probably the intent of this Council
today, possibly to defer your item. I will pose no questions to you, but this is the
third request from this Council to KIUC, we are expecting you to give that
testimony to the Planning Department for the purposes of understanding what your
demands will be on agricultural lands. If I can pass it on to you, I hope you can
comply to this request. Thank you very much.
Is there anyone else that wants to testify on any item on the agenda before
we go to the first item today which is found in our resolution section?
COMMUNICATIONS:
C 2012 -73 Communication (02/29/2012) from Vice Chair Yukimura and
Councilmember Kuali`i, transmitting for Council consideration, a resolution calling
for a just and equitable solution at Koloa Camp and for withdrawal of eviction
notices by Grove Farm Company to allow for exploring of alternatives: Mr. Kuali`i
moved to receive C 2012 -73, seconded by Mr. Rapozo, and unanimously carried.
RESOLUTIONS:
Resolution No. 2012 -29, RESOLUTION CALLING FOR A JUST AND
EQUITABLE SOLUTION AT KOLOA CAMP AND REQUESTING WITHDRAWAL
OF EVICTION NOTICES BY GROVE FARM COMPANY TO ALLOW FOR
EXPLORING OF ALTERNATIVES: Mr. Kuali`i moved to approve Resolution
No. 2012 -29, seconded by Ms. Yukimura.
Chair Furfaro: For the record please note the Clerk's
Department has confirmed to me that we have one hundred forty -six (146) pieces of
testimony both pro and con. As the introducer, would you like to have a moment to
speak first Mr. Kuali`i? Mr. Kuali`i, the Chair recognizes you.
Mr. Kuali`i: I just wanted to say that the reason for this
resolution is we have been to several community meetings and in responding to the
community concern that the tenants would like more time and more consideration
and a way to work out the dire situation that they are currently in in being evicted.
I do accept that it is a landlord- tenant legal issue that the landlord has every right
to evict tenants, we just believe that the significance of this neighborhood being one
(1) of the last plantation era communities and with the long time residents we just
COUNCIL MEETING 4 MARCH 14, 2012
hope that there is a way to spend a little more time and work and come to some
resolution. I realize that Grove Farm has been working with some of the families
and we would like to see them do for each and all of the families what is the right
thing and it may take more time. This resolution in no way is saying that we feel
that the Council has the right to say and intervene with a private business matter if
you will. But we think it is more...just about the legality and just about the private
matter, but that it is also a community matter, and a family matter, and a matter of
aloha. We live in a special place where we put people first. We know that Grove
Farm has been that local kama'aina company that has done that in the past. We
just want to see more consideration and more time and more aloha. I guess that is
all I will say for now, Council Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Vice Chair Yukimura, I will
recognize you if you would like to say anything before I suspend the rules and I will
also set the tone for the speaking order today. You have the floor, Vice Chair.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you, Mr. Chair. First of all I want to
thank you, Chair, for putting this item on the agenda. As we have seen from the
testimony it is an issue of great concern out there in the community. I also want to
remind everyone that this proposed resolution is non - binding; it does not mandate
or dictate anything, it is actually a request. It is a request if it is passed by the
Council that the parties come together with appropriate support from government
and community, looks at possibilities. It does not assume any particular possibility
but what it hopes for is a win -win, a win -win that would allow new housing
development in Koloa possibly. But what it expresses is faith in the power of
co- creation of good intention, of goodwill of caring for all and not just for some. So
we are not saying that this alternative process will be easy; it will be hard work
actually. But in the end it will be worth it because we would not have left a stone
unturned to see if we can find a win -win. So that is the intention behind this
resolution, it is non - binding, it does not mandate anything. It requests that parties
come together and see if we can work on solutions.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Before I suspend the rules I
believe we have twelve (12) registered speakers. Their names will be read off, they
will be allowed on a resolution three (3) minutes to state their commentary. It is
then my intent after addressing the two (2) requests for the early speakers, I will
then recognize Grove Farm's request to speak last, and then as Chairman I reserve
the right to call up the County Attorney last for any commentary that they might
want to offer this Council as far as general information as it comes to
landlord- tenant issues.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
COUNCIL MEETING 5 MARCH 14, 2012
RAYMOND CATANIA, PUHI RESIDENT: I am glad this resolution is
coming to the Council. My name is Raymond Catania, I live in Puhi, I also work as
a State employee for almost twenty -two (22) years, and I am just an ordinary
working man. First of all, I want to give my aloha to the brothers and sisters of
Koloa Camp for fighting back. They are the ones that made me come over here, I
have to be here in support of you guys.
As far as I am concerned, I did send in my email, my testimony, and this is a
human right that every person deserves a home, especially working class people
like ourselves who work plantation before or working right now, driving bus,
cleaning this building, working in State and County offices; we deserve one (1)
home. Everybody here deserve one (1) house. As far as I am concerned I support the
brothers and sisters here. I believe they have over 2,000 names on their petitions.
So as far as I am concerned, housing is a right and not a privilege, and an injury to
one (1) working person in trying to survive, to me, is an injury to all. Aloha.
KEKOA DIZOL, KOLOA RESIDENT: Good morning Chair Furfaro and
Councilmembers.
Chair Furfaro: Good morning, Kekoa, you will have to
introduce yourself with your full name.
Mr. Dizol: My name is Kekoa Dizol, I am a resident of
Koloa, I live on Wailani Road, that is the road to the camp. I have lived there my
whole life and I currently reside there with my family. I have seen Koloa and Po`ipu
change before my eyes. It is killing me inside to see the place where I grew up
vanish. Now one (1) of the things I love the most is planning to be destroyed. I am
not the only one (1) who feels this way. There are families out there right now
thinking the same thing. These families and friends I grew up with and are being
displaced and will also lose this community they know. Today you guys will get a
chance to hear a resolution. There is a way we all can win. We are not against
putting fifty (50) homes, but we are against destroying homes where there is
already lives and a history of Koloa that can never be replaced. I believe you guys
see it the same way. Please vote in favor for saving Koloa Camp. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you Kekoa.
GLENN MICKENS, RESIDENT: Thank you Jay. For the record, Glenn
Mickens. Good Morning Councilmembers. You have a copy of my testimony, let me
read it for the viewing public please.
Again as pointed out, Resolution No. 2012 states, it calls for a just and
equitable solution at Koloa Camp and requesting withdrawal of eviction notices by
Grove Farm Company to allow the exploration of alternatives; I think that is
COUNCIL MEETING 6 MARCH 14, 2012
outstandingly said. I support this resolution one hundred percent (100 %) and
applaud JoAnn and KipuKai for introducing it. It is hard to believe that a
community- oriented company like Grove Farm who, as the resolution says, quote
"has a long and admirable legacy of charitable giving and supporting the
community and that it is a triple bottom line company that takes into account
people, profits, and the planet in all its decisions," would even consider evicting
these eight (8) households and thirteen (13) families from their long -time homes in
the Koloa Camp. Maybe Grove Farm's triple bottom line of people, profit, and the
planet is letting profits completely override the other two (2). For me, the only way
Grove Farm should ever be allowed to proceed with developing this twelve (12) acre
site into fifty (50) residential homes is by having them set aside at least eight (8)
households that will be affordable; and I do not mean $280,000.00 or whatever that
price means they say is affordable.
Chair Furfaro: It is $220,000.00.
Mr. Mickens: $220,000.00, thank you, Jay, for that
correction. Anyway, I do not think for these families $220,000.00 is going to be
affordable. For these thirteen (13) families to move into and providing all of them
with proper temporary housing while the new homes are being constructed. I
understand this project could take up to three (3) years to complete, so if that is
true, these people are certainly going to have to have some place to go. If Grove
Farm wants to live up to their reputation of supporting the community, then they
should have no problem with taking care of these thirteen (13) families. Thank you,
Jay.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you.
KEPA KRUSE, KOLOA CAMP RESIDENT: Aloha, Council Chair Furfaro
and Councilmembers, thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak today. I am
here to ask for your support for Resolution No. 2012 -29 in support of Koloa Camp.
My name is Kepa Kruse, I am twenty -nine (29) years old, I grew up born and raised
in Koloa Camp.
I am here to ask for your support for Resolution No. 2012 -29 because for one
(1), it is not asking Grove Farm to violate any of its tenant - landlord laws, it is
simply asking for the opportunity to create more. This opportunity, the core of the
resolution is for the community to work with Grove Farm. And as I have stated in
my testimony and previous meetings with Councilmembers, there has been much
opposition. There has been so much energy on both sides of the table from Grove
Farm and from the residents to make this work. Can you imagine how incredible
that progress would have been if those two (2) sides joined together in one (1)
common goal to create new opportunities for the old and new. Why do we have to
sacrifice housing that already exists to create new housing, when the power exists
COUNCIL MEETING 7 MARCH 14, 2012
in this room and on this island to create those opportunities to extend Grove Farm's
ability to create an affordable housing project. There are alternatives. The
alternatives that exist are possible and it is a very reasonable request that I ask
that you support this resolution. I know I have only got three (3) minutes and I ask
that if possible if there is three (3) minutes at the end, I would like to summarize or
fill in any gaps if there are any questions any of the Councilmembers might have.
Chair Furfaro: Kepa, let me ask you, are you currently
actually a resident of one (1) of those homes?
Mr. Kruse:
Chair Furfaro:
Mr. Kruse:
Chair Furfaro:
I am living there with my father.
I will extend you another three (3) minutes.
Mr. Kruse: Thank you sir. I would just like to add before
I finish my testimony, this is a book of two thousand thirty -four (2,034) signatures
of registered voters the age of eighteen (18) and over from the island of Kaua`i.
These are two thousand (2,000) people who are waiting to hear what the Council
has to say, waiting to see the results of this housing issue. I agree it is very much a
tenant - landlord issue and I understand the stance that this Council may take that
it is a private matter, but there are two thousand (2,000) members of this
community who are willing to stand -up and support and fight for their history and
fight for these people who are trying to save their homes. Thank you very much for
giving me your time.
Chair Furfaro: Kepa let me say that the reality is every two
(2) years we are all exposed on our performance based on the voters outlook. But I
want to make sure that you also understand that as Council Vice Chair Yukimura
had stated, we have no legal powers to involve ourselves in a landlord- tenant issue,
that is out of the jurisdiction of the Council. But it is also very important that you
understand that certain conditions could find us in a position that it exposes the
County of Kaua`i too against the other side of those rules; we have to be cautious of
that. I think we have questions for you from some of the Councilmembers.
Sure.
Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: Good morning, Kepa, and thank you for
being here. We have received a lot of information, some from emails, some from the
press, and I just have a couple of questions just to the best of your knowledge.
Prior to receiving the termination notices was there any dialogue between
any of the tenants and Grove Farm about alternatives prior to that?
COUNCIL MEETING 8 MARCH 14, 2012
Mr. Kruse: Well on November 8 when the eviction
notices were issued it, kind of came out of nowhere. I think the first fight for the
community was to unite, and unite is definitely something that has been
accomplished. We have had a massive amount of support from the community and
in that support the alternatives have come about simply because of opening the
channels of communication. That is what this resolution is about is opening those
channels so that we can find those alternatives and find a way to make, we want
Grove Farm to build this project, we want fifty (50) more homes in the Koloa area. If
you did a search on the MLS website for these homes, there are less than five (5)
single - family homes available in Koloa for that price range. There are even less in
Lihu`e where fifty -four percent (54 %) of the island's population works. There are
alternatives. I submitted an alternative, a potential alternative in my written
testimony to the Council. The reason why this Council stands such an important
part of that process is that the Council is going to be the one (1) that has the chance
to approve the extension of the zoning for that appropriate alternative solution.
Mr. Bynum: But my question was for the tenants, the
first knowledge they had was the letter they received? There was no individual
outreach prior to that that you are aware of?
Mr. Kruse: Not that I am aware of. There may have
been talk and discussion, when the letter came it became official, and it became the
beginning of a long fight. I has been three (3) or four (4) months already of people
organizing, getting together, and finding alternatives.
Mr. Bynum: So since this has gone more public, we are
being told that Grove Farm is working individually with each tenant trying to find
alternatives, is that your experience?
Mr. Kruse: I would say that is a difficult question to
answer because each family has their own personal relationship with Grove Farm. I
am aware that some tenants have been offered temporary residences in Kapaia, in
Pa'anau Village. Mrs. Fernandez who is not here today, an eighty -two (82) year old
woman who lived in the camp for fifty -seven (57) years, she has been offered a place
in Pa'anau Village against her will, she does not want to be in Pa'anau Village, but
her family feels that that is a safe place for her to be. Two (2) weeks ago when the
March 8 eviction deadline was looming, I had actually asked their family to remove
her from the camp for fear that something may happen to her; that weighed heavy
on my heart, to know that somebody may come and try to drag this woman out of
her house or try to tell her that she is trespassing in the very home that she has
lived in for fifty -seven (57) years; that hurts my heart to see something like that. So
to answer your question, I am aware that they are working with individual tenants,
but this resolution creates the opportunity for more than just individual tenants to
COUNCIL MEETING 9 MARCH 14, 2012
win, it creates an opportunity for the entire community to win. I think that is what
the goal . of this is today.
Mr. Bynum: Thank you.
Mr. Kruse: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo and then Vice Chair Yukimura.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you. Thanks Kepa for being here
today and thanks for your community involvement. I had a question about the
petition and I am assuming we will get copies of it.
Mr. Kruse: Definitely.
Mr. Rapozo: Did the petition include the copy of the
resolution itself?
Mr. Kruse: It has a summation of the resolution.
Mr. Rapozo: What is the summation?
Mr. Kruse: Would you like me to read it?
Mr. Rapozo: Please.
Mr. Kruse: It says, we the undersigned residents and
voters of Kaua`i support the Koloa Camp tenants in their request to continue living
and to purchase their homes at Koloa Camp, the location of some of the original
plantation housing for the oldest sugar plantation in the State. Even as Kaua`i
develops and changes, we must honor and sustain the people who by their blood,
sweat, and tears, and talent have created Koloa Town and its sense of place. We call
upon Grove Farm to withdraw their eviction notices and to work with the tenants,
Peter Savio, and the County to seek a win -win solution for Koloa Camp who pledge
to stand with the tenants in their fight to save their homes.
Mr. Rapozo: We received a lot of testimony on both sides
of the issue and we are getting them as we speak; a lot of them supporting the
resolution, a lot of them are not supporting the resolution. I did have the occasion to
speak to probably three (3) of the people that were in support of the resolution and
when I clarified what the resolution actually said, that is not what they were
supporting; they were supporting the Council resolution that would get Grove Farm
to work with the community, work with them for a win -win. I would sign that, I
would sign that today. I do not think anyone on this table is opposing to reaching a
COUNCIL MEETING 10 MARCH 14, 2012
win -win. But let me ask you this question because I think this is where I have a
problem with this resolution, and I will not support it with this language. This
resolution takes a private developer, Peter Savio; this Council is not in the business
of endorsing any particular developer, that is a concern I have.
Mr. Kruse: I am very clear on that.
Mr. Rapozo: And I understand that Savio has come out,
and God bless him, but this body, I think Mr. Furfaro pretty much prefaced my
concerns in his opening statement. I think we are treading on dangerous waters
when we say hey Mayor we are asking that you work with Savio, offer his
assistance; that is not our job. So I think as, and I think that petitions are
wonderful and I like that, but I think we need to make sure we all understand that
the people that are submitting the testimonies are well aware of what this
resolution actually puts us as Councilmembers in a position to defend. We have to
uphold the law, we have to uphold the Charter, we have to make sure that we do
not...this, to me, I am concerned in fact I did ask the Chair to have the County
Attorney take a look at this because what about all the other affordable housing
developers that are here that could be helpful?
Mr. Kruse: Understood.
Mr. Rapozo: This separates one (1) and I think that is a
problem, and I think it is a legal issue. I do not want to get sued as a
Councilmember individually. If we act outside of our scope, we are on our own; we
do not get the benefit of the County Attorney. So I just want you to understand that
some of the language in here, of course I support the concept. I think that Grove
Farm and the County, and I spoke with a Kaua`i Housing Development Corporation
representative this morning. They are willing to open up some units at the new
Pa'anau. I think all of those things have to work and I think we have to do our best
effort to get to a win -win. I think there is no dispute on that. But when we start
isolating things like hey Planning Department go find something that would require
a public hearing, I think we as a Council are treading on some dangerous waters
when we do that. I think the concept, yes it is non - binding I understand, but the
influence of a resolution is there, there is an influence, we are asking the Mayor. I
know Councilmember Yukimura said it is not directed at any one (1) particular
thing. When you talk about hey Mayor we want you, the Council as a body
collectively, want you to go work with Peter Savio and offer him the assistance, I
think that is kind of... and I hope you understand my point of view.
Mr. Kruse: I understand.
Mr. Rapozo: There is no other, I think I share your
concern and I share your desire to get to a win -win, we all do, but we are limited as
COUNCIL MEETING 11 MARCH 14, 2012
well by some of the legal parameters that are set forth by law. I just hope, this is a
difficult resolution for us to address here because if we do not support it we do not
support Koloa Camp, and that is not true. We have a legal obligation that we must
comply with in addition to the emotional part of me that wants to go there and help.
So I just want you guys to all understand that because I feel the passion.
Mr. Kruse: Can I take a moment to clarify?
Mr. Rapozo: Sure.
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me. Before you are given that
moment, Mr. Rapozo would you pose that in a question because he has had his six
(6) minutes. Can you pose that in a question?
Mr. Rapozo: I guess my original question was do you
believe that the Council, the Kaua`i County Council, should be suggesting or
endorsing the Administration to work with a specific developer?
Mr. Kruse: I think with the issue of specifics, Peter
Savio was included to illustrate that alternatives do exist. If you read the
resolution, clearly it will say it is not mandating anybody to work with them, it is
just allowing access for anybody who may potentially have an alternative. Peter
Savio is one (1) individual who stepped forward and offered to purchase the land at
market value and give Grove Farm a fair and just deal for their land. This petition
was started in December, and Peter Savio emerged throughout the last few months
showing that alternatives do exist. For us to change what the petition said, to
change the statement above it halfway through our signature process, I think that
would have been unfair to people who had previously signed. So any amount of
specifics were just to illustrate that alternatives are possible and there are people
who have stepped forward and no way does the resolution call for any specific
individual to have a greater access than another one (1). A11 it simply shows is that
it is possible.
Mr. Rapozo: Can I just...
Chair Furfaro: I am going to give him another minute after
you ask your questions because I extended him the six (6) minute time, but we are
going to use this as posed as another question.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you. Kepa, I was not referencing your
petition, I think your petition is a good one (1) and I think I said that earlier. The
petition was not my concern, I think the petition is going to help us. But I want to
read that one (1) paragraph that says the Council requests Mayor Carvalho his
Administration, and Grove Farm to provide appropriate assistance to Peter Savio, a
COUNCIL MEETING 12 MARCH 14, 2012
knowledgeable affordable housing developer to allow him to develop a realistic
proposal for allowing the tenants to live on site such that a possibility may be
considered, reconsidered, incorporated as part of the solution. This resolution
specifically targets Peter Savio. I do not know. Peter Savio. I see his commercials on
tv and that is as far as I know. It has nothing to do with Peter Savio. The resolution
does not say to a qualified knowledgeable affordable housing developer within the
State of Hawai`i; it says Peter Savio. That is a direct endorsement of a developer,
private developer that I cannot support. I hope you can appreciate that because like
I said I have a very small house, I do not want to lose it in a lawsuit, that is all I am
trying to say.
Mr. Kruse: I appreciate that you are trying to clarify
this. Would it be a more effective resolution if it stated give proper assistance to any
individual who steps forward to support Koloa in their plight?
Mr. Rapozo: I think that would have been a better choice
of words. I think this one (1) puts us in a very bad legal predicament. Thank you.
Mr. Kruse: Understood and thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Before you go any farther, I had extended
you an additional three (3) minutes.
Mr. Kruse: Thank you sir.
Chair Furfaro: And then we started with questions from
Mr. Rapozo. In all fairness for myself I am going to give you some more time to
summarize before I recognize any other Councilmembers asking you questions.
Mr. Kruse: Would it be more effective to summarize in
the end of the testimonies?
Chair Furfaro: You can take my offer now to summarize and
then I am going to pose more questions. I am not going to have a series of questions
go on and then give you that time. You have three (3) additional minutes now and
then I will pose a question. Council Vice Chair that is my decision as Chair. You
have three (3) more minutes to add anything that you want to on this resolution
piece and then I am going to open it up to questions with other Councilmembers.
Mr. Kruse: There is absolutely no way I can take those
three (3) minutes at the end?
COUNCIL MEETING 13 MARCH 14, 2012
Chair Furfaro: Unfortunately these are my rules, I should
have let you have the whole six (6) minutes if I extended the time to you before I let
Mr. Rapozo do questions.
Mr. Kruse: Okay I appreciate it.
Chair Furfaro: I am giving you an additional three (3)
minutes right now because you are a tenant.
Mr. Kruse: Thank you Chair. I guess to summarize,
there is nothing that can be said that has not already been said. This resolution is
about finding a way, a means to create a solution that benefits the landowner,
which benefits the tenants, which benefits the greater community. The alternatives
that exist are reasonable and they are within our grasp. Given that as of yesterday
no permits have been applied for for this project, I feel that it is a reasonable thing
to ask this Council. Maybe the specifics of the resolution are too in favor of specific
individuals, maybe we can amend that. But at its core we believe that this
resolution is for the people. This resolution is asking for the community to help
Grove Farm, to help them achieve their goal of finding fifty (50) affordable units, a
fifty (50) unit affordable housing project on the South Shore. It is about creating a
chance to instill new roots into a community without chopping the roots that have
been there, some for sixty (60), eighty (80), one hundred (100) years. I feel this is an
important issue and this is treading on a subject which could possibly be handled in
a judiciary system, but we live on the island of Kaua`i filled with aloha, with
communities that support each other. This community holds each other together
and this resolution is asking that that community can remain so that we can find
more communities. I just do not believe that housing should be at the expense of
housing that already exists. I appreciate that you gave me extra time, thank you
Chair, thank you Councilmembers.
Chair Furfaro: Kepa, now I am going to pose questions from
other Councilmembers to you. The first one (1) I will recognize is Vice Chair
Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you Chair. Kepa, as a follow -up to
Councilmember Bynum's question, if there were preliminary discussion prior to the
eviction notice being given, did it include the option for protecting the community
and finding a way for tenants to continue on the land?
Mr. Kruse: No.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. So it was mainly about can we help
you get out and off of the land?
COUNCIL MEETING 14 MARCH 14, 2012
Mr. Kruse: Options that were discussed included moving
one (1) family to Pa'anau Village, which is very reasonable and we thank Grove
Farm for extending those opportunities, but when doing research, we find that
Pa'anau Village has a waitlist of two (2) years. What gives preference to people in
K5loa Camp over people who have been waiting for two (2) years, and they want to
be in Pa'anau Village. Mrs. Fernandez who is eighty -two (82) years old, she does not
want to live in Pa'anau Village. She wakes up every morning and waters her
flowers and walks around Koloa Camp; she has done that for the past fifty -seven
(57) years.
Now before I waste my time talking about each individual, let me just run
through some of the things that have been offered: One (1) family has been offered a
place in Paanau; and two (2) families have been offered the chance to take their
homes with them, the inclusion of Michael Faye in a home inspection that was
scheduled on March 6 recognizes the historic value of these homes. Michael Faye is
an expert in historical housing because he runs the Waimea Plantation Cottages,
which takes these historical homes, transports them to Waimea, restores them, and
then what he does is he applies for a tax credit because they qualify as historical
buildings. Two (2) families were offered the chance to take their homes. The cost for
the transport and getting up to code was going to be in the excess of $200,000.00.
Grove Farm had stepped forward and offered a $3,000.00 reimbursement upon
receipt of their receipts. The $3,000.00 was not offered to tenants for their moving
expenses for compensation. I know that my father and I have not been offered any
sort of temporary housing. I am aware that Mrs. Pajella has been offered assistance
for a two (2) bedroom home in Kapaia for her multi - generational family. In fact, I
believe Grove Farm has been extensively working on preparing this for her so that
she may have options. This is where the situation becomes emotional because we
have a hui of people, we have an `ohana of supporters from Koloa Camp, the greater
surrounding community, even people who are off - island. Senator Clayton Hee came
this past weekend to view Koloa Camp to learn about our stories, to look into the
eyes of all the people who live there. I do not see how evicting our kupuna is
beneficial to this community, in fact it is an utter disregard for them.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay so we have been talking about a
win -win and saying that we should be exploring ways that Grove Farm can do what
it wants to do in terms of providing fifty (50) single - family homes for families who
want to move into Koloa or back to Koloa. But there is the win on the other side as
well. So the question is will it be a win for the Koloa tenants if all the tenants are
removed from the land?
Mr. Kruse: I think the real loss is going to be to the
community and to the great State of Hawai`i because all over, Koloa is recognized as
a historic town; it is recognized as the birth place of the sugar industry and in the
entire State of Hawaii. By losing the cultural and historical resources such as Koloa
COUNCIL MEETING 15 MARCH 14, 2012
Camp, which is directly connected to the first mill site, Waihohonu, which is a
nationally recognized landmark, I think what that does is it takes the resources out
of the land, it takes the people out of the land, it removes the roots that have been
there. I do not see that as being a winning situation.
Ms. Yukimura: So what the tenants are asking for as a win
for them would be to find a way that they can stay in that camp and also find a way
that Grove Farm can produce fifty (50) homes for new homeowners? Is that right?
Mr. Kruse: Correct. I would like to clarify, as much
support as Grove Farm...
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me, Kepa. Through this period you
have to respond to the questions not expand more testimony.
Mr. Kruse: I apologize.
Chair Furfaro: That is just within our rules so let the
question come from the person who has the floor. Vice Chair Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: The tenants themselves are willing to work
on different solutions and give their sweat equity or whatever it takes to also make
the solutions work?
Mr. Kruse: Several alternatives have been proposed, and
I feel that the only way that the alternatives can be communicated is by passing
this resolution to allow the channels of communication to be open. That is really
what this is about, is opening those channels of communication so that we can
address the alternatives.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you.
Mr. Kruse: Thank you.
Ms. Nakamura: Hi Kepa, thank you for being here.
Mr. Kruse: Thank you.
Ms. Nakamura: My question is, and I received your
testimony but really did not get a chance to review it thoroughly, but can you briefly
describe some of those alternatives that you are referring to?
Mr. Kruse: Sure. The core of this resolution is asking to
explore those alternatives, and one (1) alternative in particular which was
COUNCIL MEETING 16 MARCH 14, 2012
addressed in my written testimony addresses the extension of the urban zoning to
the remainder of the TMK lot which Koloa Camp resides on. Koloa Camp resides on
a 24.387 acre lot of land. In 1996 when the Ala Kinoiki Bypass was constructed it
created two (2) de facto separate divisions of this land parcel, one (1) on the west
where Koloa Camp sits in urban. It is 11.857 acres. One (1) on the east where it is
zoned ag is 12.07 acres. This land on the east side presents an incredible
opportunity for Grove Farm to build their affordable housing there. It faces none of
the problems that the original proposed site... it has got greater vehicular access, it
has got elevation above the flood plain, it has got no historical view, no eviction of
residents, and no cost for demolish. Grove Farm would save money on their cost of
construction, be able to pass better value to the homeowners who are looking to
make their roots in Koloa, it would also preserve the historic Koloa Camp which is
recognized as the birth place of Hawai`i, and last of all, it would create the most
housing options for the greater community; fifty (50) on one (1) side, and the
remaining lots of Koloa Camp on the other side, thereby creating a win -win
solution. That acreage is less than fifteen (15) acres so it would not require the Land
Use Commission to be approved, in fact it could be done at a County level. Without
expediting...I want to make sure this process is not expedited to the fact that we
overlook potential consequences of that because this process should be given due
diligence, which is why we are asking for the stay of eviction. This alternative is
reasonable, is within reach, and it creates a better opportunity for Grove Farm.
That is what the core of this resolution is about. That is one (1) of the alternatives
that was suggested, along with Peter Savio who had stepped forward and offered to
purchase the camp; these are just a few of the alternatives that have been
discussed.
Ms. Nakamura: And so in this first alternative that you
described, by using this alternative parcel of land, that is where you would target
the fifty (50) units, and then on the existing Koloa Camp site your win -win would be
to keep it as is?
Mr. Kruse: To keep it as is and restore the
neighborhood. It would not be our choice, since Grove Farm is the landowner and
they have legal right to do what they choose. I know that although people are afraid
of what is going to happen, their first choice has been to remain there. We have
stated very clearly that our goal is to preserve that way of life. It is more than just a
zone, it is more than just an appropriate zone; these are people's homes, these are
people's families, many of them multi - generational, multi- ethnic, stemming from
the sugar plantation which created local lifestyle. The entire town is built...
Ms. Nakamura: Would you, when you say restore, would you
keep it to the same density as it is currently on the 11.87 acres?
COUNCIL MEETING 17 MARCH 14, 2012
Mr. Kruse: Under the alternative that was discussed,
tenants who have been living there and taking responsibility for over twenty (20) to
thirty (30) years, would be able to purchase the land that they have cared for. These
families include multi - generational homes.
Ms. Nakamura: So you would not be looking at increasing
density, you would keep it at the current density?
Mr. Kruse: We would keep it at the current density and
offer to build homes in the same plantation style of Koloa Camp.
Ms. Nakamura: I see.
Mr. Kruse: It would have to retain its uniqueness, and
its charm, and its character.
Ms. Nakamura: So the current assessed value, I was just
looking at the real property tax, I guess it must be the entire twenty -five (25) acres,
is about $3.3 million. Is that correct?
Mr. Kruse: $3.3 million. That is correct. That is for the
entire twenty -four (24) acres.
Ms. Nakamura: That is for the twenty -four (24), so about
roughly half of that you are looking at $1.5 to $1.7 million.
Mr. Kruse: Yes.
Ms. Nakamura: Are the current tenants willing to go that
route and find the $1.7 million to then be able to preserve that?
Mr. Kruse: Yes. Individuals have stepped forward and
come to the table offering a way to make this a reality, to make it happen. $1.7
million plus a few hundred thousand for...let us say $2 million divided up into
twenty -one (21) lots, there are twenty -one (21) historical structures still remaining
on the plot. As discussed in the alternative, we would create twenty -one (21) lots for
the remaining tenants who are there and their families to purchase. Twenty -one
(21) lots across $2 million is roughly $100,000.00 per lot, which is more than
affordable, it is less than half of the price of Grove Farm's proposed affordable
housing from $220,000.00 all the way up to $460,000.00.
Ms. Nakamura: But that would be just for the lot itself?
COUNCIL MEETING 18 MARCH 14, 2012
Mr. Kruse: That would be for the lot and the homes on
them. Peter Savio, who had stepped forward had offered to purchase the camp as is.
Now I do not know, this is all depending on appraisal, and dependent on financing.
Ms. Nakamura: And then on the remaining twelve (12) acres,
that is where you are proposing that the landowner then go in for some kind of
rezoning to build the fifty (50) acres at that point in time?
Mr. Kruse: Yes.
Ms. Nakamura: That rezoning process typically takes,
probably in the best cases, two (2) to three (3) years would you say to go through the
process. With the studies that need to be done to go through the rezoning, I would
think it would be pretty...let us see, for twelve (12) acres, it is hundreds of
thousands of dollars, that is what would be involved on the landowner's side. So
there are costs that need to be looked at and time, because for the private
corporation time is money, time is resources they could have been receiving, and so
we just need to keep all of that into perspective.
Mr. Kruse: We were balancing off the potential setbacks
that the landowner had in the original location, such as cost for demolition, cost for
flood fill, cost for making the area certified above...well working with FEMA with
the FEMA guidelines to make sure that the Waihohonu Stream does not have
adverse effects upstream, across the stream, and down the stream. There are people
in this audience who represent upstream, across the stream, and downstream. Now
when you fill in a flood zone, this could create serious, serious repercussions for
anyone else that shares the border.
Ms. Nakamura: That is why flood studies, environmental
assessments, impact studies, there is going to be quite a few studies needed for
rezoning an ag land to a residential designation. I think we need to keep that into
perspective as we have this dialogue.
Mr. Kruse: If there is such a need for housing in the
area, why would a twelve (12) acre parcel take two (2) to three (3) years when it is
less than fifteen (15) acres? It would not require the use of the Land Use
Commission, it could be done on a County level.
Ms. Nakamura: Yes, it can be done at the County level if it is
under fifteen (15) acres, but requires a class 4 zoning permit which requires going to
the Planning Commission, notifying your neighbors, doing your public hearing, it
goes through a Planning Commission process. But even before it can go through
that process it requires a lot of studies that then go into the application for that
zoning application, and then it will require coming to the Council; so it is a two -step
COUNCIL MEETING 19 MARCH 14, 2012
process. Then it goes through Council for final rezoning approval. So it is a very
drawn out process.
Mr. Kruse: The proposed development that Grove Farm
wants in Koloa Camp is only a Class 3 Permit, so they do not require a public
hearing, they do not require a flood study, they do not require an environmental
assessment.
Ms. Nakamura:
Mr. Kruse:
Because it is a R6 zone?
Because it is a Class 3 and R6.
Ms. Nakamura: Yes, it is residentially zoned. The other
parcel from what I gather from this conversation is not? Or is it?
Mr. Kruse: It is the same TMK number. When the
parcel was split, the zoning changed hands; one (1) side R6, one (1) side ag. Now the
ag side is flanked on three (3) sides by R6. It is R6, R6, and R2. So it would not be
spot zoning and it is close to the town core, it is close to the amenities such as the
ball park.
Ms. Nakamura: Yes I just wanted to point out there are costs
and time associated, it is not a real simple thing.
Mr. Chang: You were born and raised in Koloa Camp
and if I am not mistaken, your dad has been there for thirty -two (32) years or what
have you. So as you were growing up, did you realize that this arrangement was a
month -to -month arrangement as far as the rent?
up.
Mr. Kruse: Understood. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Chang you have the floor.
Mr. Chang: Kepa, thanks for being here.
Mr. Kruse: Thank you for letting me speak.
Mr. Kruse: I was blissfully happy in my youth growing
Mr. Chang: And the reason I ask that question is that I
know your background, you were a boarder at Kamehameha Schools, and I applaud
you for being twenty -nine (29) years young and understanding the process and
being a driving force, because I can hear your intelligence. But at some point or
COUNCIL MEETING 20 MARCH 14, 2012
another, because I did briefly check with your dad this morning, but in my opinion
or from what I have gathered, which is why I am asking the question, most of the
tenants that I have talked to and those that were able to communicate or that I
have been able to personally chat with, there is a lot I could not get a hold of, or
never returned a call. But my understanding was the tenants realized that this was
a month -to -month arrangement in this case with the landlord.
Mr. Kruse: That was made clear only after Alan Smith
had left Grove Farm in 2006 or 2007.
Mr. Chang: So let us go to the adult life thereafter, would
you consider Grove Farm to have been a good landlord?
Mr. Kruse: Prior to Alan Smith leaving, yes. Prior to the
purchase of Grove Farm by Steve Case, yes.
Mr. Chang: So I hate to use the developer Peter Savio,
but if you are doing lots for $100,000.00 per the lot regardless of the size, did he
ever quote you folks what a complete package would be as far as a house and lot?
Mr. Kruse: Based on the model of Poamoho Camp which
is a successful transition from plantation owned to resident owned, the people there
were able to purchase their homes at an affordable rate of $95,000.00. Some of the
lots were appraised at $220,000.00. They were able to secure that at roughly half of
that price. So based off of that model, the Koloa Camp situation was a perfect
translation and a way to make that model work again in a different environment. A
written proposal was submitted to Grove Farm on February 28, but nothing was
communicated with Grove Farm about having received it, having looked over it.
Mr. Chang: So some of the homes at Poamoho Camp
started at about $95,000.00?
Mr. Kruse: I believe they had a ninety -eight percent
(98 %) purchase rate from all the people in the camp. These were all people who
were seniors on fixed income, and the qualifications... some people were not even
able to qualify, and within that structure, people from within the surrounding
community came together to offer them a way to purchase. It was a very successful
project, which is why Peter Savio came so highly recommended, which is why Peter
Savio is offered in this. It creates a very valuable situation which is reasonable and
not only possible, but it has been done, which is why it is so important to address
that.
Mr. Chang: Vice Chair, no further questions.
COUNCIL MEETING 21 MARCH 14, 2012
Ms. Yukimura: Other questions? Go ahead, Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Are there any first time Councilmembers
that want to pose any questions to Kepa? No. Then I will go a second round. Is that
you Mr. Bynum?
Mr. Bynum: Earlier you said you wanted to present at the
end, is that because you want to be able to respond to any testimony from Grove
Farm or the County Attorney?
Mr. Kruse: Over the last four (4) months I have done
extensive research in the history of this land and the people, and any gaps that may
potentially exist from our testimony from people who are willing to submit, I just
wanted to have a chance to fill -in whatever gaps or answer any questions that the
Council may have regarding testimony that happens after me. It is not necessarily
to have the last word, all I want to do is... my goal here is to inform.
Mr. Bynum: Thank you.
Mr. Kruse: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Vice Chair.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you. I guess it is hard for people to
understand what kind of stress the community has been going through, and people
want to stay but they think that maybe the only way that they will have a place to
stay if they are kicked out is to work with Grove Farm. Can you maybe share with
us what the community is going through?
Mr. Kruse: Sure. On November 8 when the eviction
notices were issued, at the time two (2) weeks to Thanksgiving, holiday season,
Christmas, these people are thinking about where are they going to live, not where
are they going to put their Christmas trees. These people are thinking about where
is my granddaughter going to grow up? Is my granddaughter going to have to grow
up in Pa'anau? Is my granddaughter going to have to grow up in Kekaha? Are we
going to have to apply for Hawaiian Homelands? A community like Koloa Camp is
filled with mostly seniors. I can read you the names and the ages of these people,
these are people who deserve the utmost respect: John Kruse, 68; Joey Pajela, 66;
John Patt, 65; Katherine Fernandez, 82; Eric Medeiros, 57; Doreen Jacintho, 60;
Kenny Berwinkle, 72; these are just a few of the oldest members of the camp. It is
filled with predominantly seniors, people who have been raised in that Koloa
Plantation lifestyle, and have spent their holiday season worrying about where they
are going to live. I do not think that is a very respectful thing for a company to do,
given that it prides itself as a kama'aina company that works with the people. That
COUNCIL MEETING 22 MARCH 14, 2012
was part of the catalyst which got me so involved with this because I am here to
represent the people that cannot be here. I am here to represent Mrs. Fernandez,
who is now living in Kekaha because her family pulled her out of Koloa Camp, for
fear that something may happen. She does not want to go to Pa'anau; she stated
that many times. But yet Grove Farm insists that she go to Pa'anau.
Ms. Yukimura: Are the families willing, do they know that
there is going to be some change, and that there may be some higher prices to pay,
and that they are going to try to figure out how to do this? They are not just asking
to keep renting at month -to -month at a low rent are they?
Mr. Kruse: Change is very apparent. It is obvious that
after resolution, whatever the outcome, change is going to be in the air. Living in
this plantation camp, some of the homes are one hundred -fifty (150) years old. It is
obvious that restoration is possible, it is obvious that new homes will need to be
built in order to support this community. I feel like Koloa Camp is part of the living
history of Hawai`i and it is worth saving, it is an elder, it is a one - hundred (100)
year old elder which deserves respect. You know they say out with the old in with
the new, I do not think that is a very respectful way to approach this issue.
Ms. Yukimura:
Mr. Kruse:
Thank you.
Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Any other questions before I call up the next
speaker? Thank you very much for your testimony.
Mr. Kruse: Thank you, Chair, for giving me adequate
time and extra time to address these issues.
Chair Furfaro: You are more than welcome. Our next
speaker?
JOHN PATT, KOLOA CAMP RESIDENT: I am John Patt. I want to thank
you Councilmembers for giving me the chance to speak and for considering this
resolution.
I am a taxpayer and a commercial and residential tenant of Grove Farm for
twenty -four (24) years, and I urge you to support Resolution No. 2012 -29. This
resolution is not telling Grove Farm to give up its rights, it is simply asking Grove
Farm to perform its due diligence and to work with the tenants for a win -win option
for Waihohonu and for K5loa.
COUNCIL MEETING 23 MARCH 14, 2012
I want to talk a little bit about property rights. The rationale for property
rights is promote order and therefore the common good. In our culture we believe
that the common good is achieved by the individual's decision and use for their
property. But those rights are not absolute, they are tempered by law such as
zoning and building requirements, and furthermore, they are dynamic. FEMA for
example is now placing more stringent requirements on housing built in flood zones.
So the landowner's rights are attenuated when they conflict with the rights of the
taxpayers. Rights are one side of the coin, responsibility is the other. Responsibility
is magnified when the landowner has extensive holdings. I will give you an example
— a child who is riding recklessly a bike down the street is a danger to himself, to
pedestrians, to motorists, but compare that with a semi - tractor trailer that has lost
its breaks and is coming through Knudsen gap, the potential for damage is that
much greater, so is the situation with a large landowner. When the large landowner
does not adequately plan, the consequences to the community and to the taxpayer
are proportionately greater.
This resolution is not asking Grove Farm to forego its rights but the
community and the taxpayers have an interest in Waihohonu because it reduces
what I call the practical affordable housing inventory, what we call real affordable
housing, the affordable housing that people who write their checks and checkbooks,
who punch time clocks, that is the affordable housing. This housing inventory is
potentially being reduced by Waihohonu. The reason is, Waihohonu has not been
well planned and does not have a clear path to completion. In less than four (4)
months we have heard Grove Farm propose three (3) different access routes to
Waihohonu. This means they have not done their due diligence, it changes about
every five (5) weeks. The most recent access is going to require permission to enter
the project through the bypass.
Chair Furfaro: John, just hold on a second, that is the first
three (3) minutes, am I to understand that you are a tenant?
Mr. Patt:
Chair Furfaro:
I am a tenant, sir.
You have an additional three (3) minutes.
Mr. Patt: Thank you. Grove Farm is still insisting on
evicting its Koloa Camp tenants before it has even submitted plans to the County.
Waihohonu will not be built without FEMA approval, at least the latter of the map
revision. Due to the volume of fill required for the flood zone that fill will require
hundreds of dump trucks rumbling through Koloa and you can guarantee there will
be local opposition to that. Approval for each of these projects, each of these aspects,
will take time and they never come to fruition. This is why Grove Farm and Koloa
Camp can use this time to try and work out a win -win. What harm will come to
Grove Farm for halting the evictions and seeking a win -win with Koloa Camp as
COUNCIL MEETING 24 MARCH 14, 2012
part of their due diligence? What harm is there in more thorough in win -win
planning? Approval of the resolution will be a major step in securing that win -win
for Grove Farm, for Koloa Camp, for Koloa, and for Kauai.
Chair Furfaro: John, thank you. Just for some clarification
for me, that was your second three (3) minutes, you are a commercial tenant?
Mr. Patt: A commercial and residential. So I rent the
old Japanese School Building, and we use some portions of it for our commercial
business which is Pohaku Tees, and a portion of it for living purposes.
Chair Furfaro: I understand that now, thank you. Members,
questions for John? Mr. Chang followed by Councilmember Nakamura.
Mr. Chang: Thank you Mr. Patt for being here. How
many years have you been a tenant of Koloa Camp?
Mr. Patt: Twenty -four (24).
Mr. Chang: So was it always your understanding that it
has been a month -to -month arrangement?
Mr. Patt: I have twice been on five (5) year
arrangements; it has been month -to -month since around 2008. We secured a five (5)
year lease in 2003, so it has been month -to -month since then, and yes I have been
aware that it is month -to- month.
Mr. Chang: So were you aware that somewhere down the
pipe this day might be inevitable that...
Mr. Patt: No, not really. The reason is, Grove Farm
owns forty thousand (40,000) acres, we were a back water, there had been no
indication of why are they going to use this or what. So it came out of the blue.
Mr. Chang: So within your rental that you are renting
you are also doing commercial business there?
Mr. Patt: Yes and it is part of my lease.
Mr. Chang: So are you subleasing any part of that?
Mr. Patt: I do have one (1) tenant there.
COUNCIL MEETING 25 MARCH 14, 2012
Mr. Chang: So is that part of the arrangement that you
can sublease a part of that?
Mr. Patt: I cannot say if it is in the lease or not. I have
made handshake agreements with Mark Hubbard... this actually kind of evolved, a
friend needed a place to stay and we put him up, and it turns out that his housing
fell through, and so we said we have a spare room with an extra thing, and we do
have commercial privileges so that is what we did; it was an extension of the
commercial privileges.
Mr. Chang: So in addition to your commercial space and
your home, you are subleasing a tenant that they can rent a portion of your house?
Mr. Patt:
entrance.
Yes. It is one (1) room, he has a separate
Mr. Chang: Okay. Because the true spirit of a camp and
we are calling it Koloa Camp, I am not really sure where camps were or did we just
name it Koloa Camp, or maybe someone could have said Grove Farm affordable
housing rentals at one (1) time, but in the true spirit of a camp, now hearing that
there is commercial activity going on in the camp, and now a tenant in your case
needs a place to stay, but then you are subleasing out to somebody else, how long
has that arrangement been going on?
Mr. Patt:
Mr. Chang:
The commercial or the tenant?
Maybe both.
Mr. Patt: I originally leased commercial, that is how I
began, this school building was the Salvation Army Thrift Store so it has had
commercial... and then what happened is then we got permission to use it as
residential in addition. So it has historically been commercial use.
Mr. Chang: And in reference to subleasing to another
tenant?
Mr. Patt: What simply happened, he lost his home, he
asked us if he could stay for, it was supposed to be a few months while he secured
another home, that other home fell through, and we said alright we are not using
this space, we will rent it to you. It is very affordable, and it is very small, and it is
very funky to be honest. But it is a home for a senior citizen who is not able to drive,
he has access to shopping, he has access to services, he can walk to where he has to
go.
COUNCIL MEETING 26 MARCH 14, 2012
Mr. Chang: And so would you say in the past twenty -four
(24) years the rent has been very affordable for yourself?
Mr. Patt: The rent has been affordable, very
affordable, but the arrangement is we do all the repairs. I climb up on my roof with
a fifteen foot (15') fall and put panels up there, I am the guy who cuts the floor out
and puts new flooring in, I am the guy who fixes the plumbing when the pipe
breaks. So I do all the repairs, the last repairs with one (1) exception was Iniki, and
that exception was piping another landowner's property, and I did not have access
to that as a tenant, so Grove Farm had to fix that piping. But the rest of it I do.
Mr. Chang: So can I ask what you pay for rent?
Mr. Patt: I pay with tax or without?
Mr. Chang: You mentioned you are a taxpayer, so I am
going to say with taxes.
Mr. Patt: $911.00.
Mr. Chang: So you got a house, you got a commercial
space, you got a tenant, and you pay a little over $911.00
Mr. Patt: Yes.
Mr. Chang: For quite some time?
Mr. Patt: Yes.
Mr. Chang: So I guess it would be pretty fair to say that
a place that you have could rent for $1,500.00, it could run for $2,000.00?
Mr. Patt: No. To be honest not that place, not that
place. There are probably, Kepa has been up in our roof, how many pukas are up
there, probably twenty (20) pukas in the roof. We have portions of floor that are
rotted out, I mean I should be fixing the roof instead of fighting Grove Farm, to be
honest.
Mr. Chang: And that would be a classic camp, a
plantation camp if you will.
Mr. Patt: Yes. Well there is a historical connection.
This was a Japanese language school building, it historically connects, you know
where the social hall is?
COUNCIL MEETING 27 MARCH 14, 2012
Mr. Chang: Yes.
Mr. Patt: The Hongwanji Temple that burned down,
the early school was martial arts, and then it was Japanese Camp C behind there;
this is all connected, it is all a part of the same history.
Mr. Chang: Okay. And the point that I am making I
guess, is that as many have mentioned even up to today, probably as we speak, we
are constantly getting testimonies, and you mention having a nice friendly
handshake at that time with Mark Hubbard I think way back when that is what it
was. Prior to lawsuits, prior to paperwork it was like right on, aloha, and what have
you. So I just wanted to get that. Did I ask you a question? Did you think they are
good tenants (sic) or are good tenants (sic) up until these trying times? I beg your
pardon, landlord.
Mr. Patt: A good landlord? Yes, they were a good
landlord, especially with Mark Hubbard and Allan Smith. I have since had to butt
heads with them sometimes, but we are trying to work things the best we can.
Mr. Chang: Okay thank you, Mr. Patt, thank you, Chair.
Mr. Patt: You are welcome.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Councilmember Nakamura you
have the floor, followed by Mr. Rapozo.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you for being here Mr. Patt.
Mr. Patt: Thank you.
Ms. Nakamura: I have a question about your request to halt
the eviction or termination. How long, in your opinion, what is a reasonable time to
halt the termination?
Mr. Patt: Well it is hard to say, but if Grove Farm does
not have their permits, why not collect the rents for one thing, it is to their business
advantage to collect the rents, and why not give us time to work things out?
Ms. Nakamura: So until they receive their building permit is
that what you are saying?
Mr. Patt: Well that is one (1) way of putting them. But
I would personally prefer to do this as quickly as possible. I do not think we should
COUNCIL MEETING 28 MARCH 14, 2012
sit and there, well we have time, let us deal with this and try to get it solved. So I
would try to make every effort to be as expeditious as possible with this. But if you
have to put a bracket on, the permits is for sure.
Ms. Nakamura: Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Patt: You are welcome.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo you have the floor.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you. John, are you the only
commercial tenant in that Camp?
Mr. Patt: The Koloa Early School is also a commercial
tenant and they are on the same parcel. There are technically two (2) different
parcels here we are talking about, the Koloa Camp proper is 0000 and we are 0053,
but both of those parcels would be evicted and ordered to build Waihohonu; they are
adjacent parcels. It is like a dog leg and we are in the small part of the...
Mr. Rapozo: Your commercial lease has been going on for
twenty -four (24) years as well?
Mr. Patt: It began commercial, it started commercial
and it became residential in 1999. It became residential /commercial in 1999.
Mr. Rapozo: So you mentioned the Salvation Army, you
moved in after the Salvation Army moved out?
Mr. Patt: I rented a small portion of the building while
the Salvation Army was still there so they were my neighbors, they were my
co- tenants. And then when they moved out then I took over the entire building.
Mr. Rapozo: And you mentioned to Councilmember
Chang that you sublease the commercial portion or the residential, your home?
Mr. Patt: It is a commercial portion. It is a room, it is
somewhat arbitrary, it is a room with a separate entrance. A separate room...
Mr. Rapozo: Is it two (2) separate buildings?
Mr. Patt: No, one (1) building.
Mr. Rapozo: So you live in the building that you have
your business in?
COUNCIL MEETING 29 MARCH 14, 2012
Mr. Patt: Yes. But there is different rooms and
different doors and different accesses.
Mr. Rapozo: And you have separate leases?
Mr. Patt: No. One (1) lease.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay.
Mr. Patt: But the portion that I sublet is down one (1)
end, it is a room that was added on at one (1) end and the tenant has his own
separate entrance.
Mr. Rapozo: So it is one (1) building that houses your
residence, you live in the building?
Mr. Patt: Yes.
Mr. Rapozo: And then there is your, what do you do?
Pohaku Tees you said?
Mr. Patt: Yes. So I use a portion of it for my design
studio for our office, we use extensive parts of the building for warehousing,
warehousing probably takes up the most space, and then we use the small part for
where we basically have a kitchen and a bedroom. The rest of it, most of it, is for
commercial space because there is very little storage space in our store, so we store
everything at the school building.
Mr. Rapozo: The school building is separate though?
Mr. Patt:
talking about.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay.
No. The school building is the building I am
Mr. Rapozo: So what is the Koloa Early School that you
were talking about? Is that another...
Mr. Patt: Koloa Early School is a separate entity, it is
a separate tenant. They do not rent a building, they rent yard space.
Mr. Patt: They are a land tenant not a building tenant.
COUNCIL MEETING 30 MARCH 14, 2012
Mr. Rapozo: Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Patt: You are welcome.
Chair Furfaro: Vice Chair Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: About the Early Learning?
Mr. Patt: K6loa Early School.
Ms. Yukimura: Koloa Early School, you say they rent a yard
but in fact is it not their actual fenced in play ground for the early school?
Mr. Patt: That is correct.
Ms. Yukimura: So if they do not have that as their play area
where are they going to do...
Mr. Patt: Right now the yard is actually a pretty
protected area, it is behind the school, there is very limited vehicular access there,
they will have to move that playground to the front. I do not know if they are going
to be able to get the same size. Size is a concern for the yard because Federal
requirements require so many square feet of playground per child. So if they cannot
get the same square footage then they are going to have to reduce the number of
students which is going to reduce their income. It is also going to put their
playground in the yard. If you know where the bon dance had been held in Koloa,
right in that yard where people from Big Save come in and park, people from all
over the place, people who use the social hall come and park, so there is going to be
a lot more traffic there. You are either going to fence it in, plus transiting in and out
is going to be a lot less safe for those children.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you.
Mr. Patt: You are welcome.
Chair Furfaro: Is there anyone else that would wish to
speak for the first time? Mr. Kuali`i did you have any questions, you have not
spoken yet. No. Mr. Bynum, no. I have a question for John. We are dealing with
eight (8) tenants within this twelve acre parcel, does the eight (8) include your
tenant or is that plus your tenant?
Mr. Patt: The eight (8) includes me. I suspect, I think
the eight (8) does not include my tenant.
COUNCIL MEETING 31 MARCH 14, 2012
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Patt: You are welcome.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Chang you have the floor.
Mr. Chang: Thank you Chairman. Mr. Patt, that was one
(1) of my concerns was the playground, that was one (1) of the first things that I was
very interested in. In the realm of smart growth if you will, the access around where
you are at and Koloa School, being able to walk to a bank or to shopping centers as
you know, a floral store, a wine shop, as you know and you are very familiar with...
Mr. Patt: Fish Market.
Mr. Chang: Yes. That was very, very, very much of a
concern for me, but I do not know if you recently talked to the developer because
that was one (1) of my big questions, because I was concerned for the playground
and maybe when they come up. From my understanding, the whole module shifted
a bit in which case the early school will not be deterred from that playground that
exists a safe distance away.
Mr. Patt: This I do not know but I am going to say
again I have not heard this. Grove Farm's plan keeps changing. If they are not
going to do that then it has changed again and this is what the point I made with
the access road, they have changed it three (3) times. Now they are changing this,
now they are going to go to the Planning Department and how many times are they
going to change it? The only thing they are certain about is: let us kick the tenants
out. That is the only thing that they are certain about, everything else is in flux. Let
us resolve... get the plan, Grove Farm should do their due diligence, they are a large
land corporation and they owe the community and the taxpayer due diligence, and
then deal with the tenants.
Mr. Chang: I understand. And yourself personally, are
you a landlord? Do you own property and rent property out?
Mr. Patt: Yes.
Mr. Chang: So you have a house or a condo?
Mr. Patt: No, two (2) condos.
Mr. Chang: So if you all of sudden decided to put your
condo up for sale, and you had long -term tenants, or you had an agreement that it
COUNCIL MEETING 32 MARCH 14, 2012
was month -to- month, what kind of recommendation would you give us if you needed
to sell your condo? What arrangements would you give to your tenant to say that in
one (1) month, in three (3) months, in four (4) months, sorry but I am about ready to
sell, you have to get out?
Mr. Patt: I would try to give them as much advance
notice as I could. If I had to sell, I had to sell, but the difference is I would be
impacting one (1) tenant versus impacting a whole community. The scale of
magnitude is the difference here, and I would not like having to do that. I would at
least try to, if they say hey I need more time, I would try to work with them the best
I could. Now we are talking a hypothetical situation, if the taxman coming down on
me I might have to be nasty, but if I have latitude, if I have got forty thousand
(40,000) acres and the time, because I still have my permits to go through, yes, I
would give them every consideration I can. That is part of aloha, that is part of
Kaua`i.
Mr. Chang: And I understand that and that is the
problem I think I am struggling with is it is a landlord- tenant issue and all given
the fact if your tenant was eighty -two (82), or one (1) of the tenants was sixty -eight
(68), it is almost like a situation of similar, or it could be construed as similar
sympathies.
Mr. Patt: To be honest I really hope, I really hope that
if I had an eighty -two (82) year old tenant that I would jump through hoops to try to
keep them in there. It is a hypothetical situation, but I really hope, and I would be
very disappointed in myself if I failed to do that.
Mr. Chang: Thank you.
Mr. Patt: You are welcome.
Chair Furfaro: John if we have (inaudible).
Mr. Patt:
Chair Furfaro:
Thank you.
I am going to call the next speaker.
Mr. Topenio: Next speaker Mr. Chair is Amber
Alimbogoyuen followed by Phoebe Eng.
AMBER ALIMBOGUYUEN, RESIDENT: I am here for Koloa Camp. The
reason why I am here and speaking is because my grandmother had to go through
the issue, not exactly the same, but we did have a plantation house, we are in a
flood zone, and what happened was we had to buy the lot that was underneath us
for about $6,000.00 during Hurricane Iniki. She is about eighty -two (82) years old or
COUNCIL MEETING 33 MARCH 14, 2012
eighty (80) years old, and the house that is built now I had chosen to have one (1)
story rather than a two (2) story. There was issues during the time that we had to
build the house because we wanted to be able to afford it during that economy of the
Iniki and that (inaudible) that we were in the middle of nowhere of ocean, and to get
work, this is a woman. Not only that but my mom was a single mother, so now we
have a great - grandmother, a grandmother, a mother, and a child in the house, so I
can help to provide for my grandmother. It is not an affordable housing when you
have to rebuild for an elderly and my uncle is a (inaudible: semi - captain) which is
John Kruse, so I know in the future the cost will rise especially because you have to
deal with medical and the rising cost of electricity, and especially the property
taxes. I was part of the landlord issue with the house, because my grandfather
groomed me to know carpentry, maintenance, so I maintained the house throughout
their life and I am thirty (30). So I know what boys can do yard work, carpentry,
and plumbing, and all of that. But my grandmother thinks she needs to go
elsewhere because the price has rised for everyone because they want more money
to make their living. It is not affordable when you have to rebuild a house even if it
is $60,000.00 or $90,000.00, it is still a lot for them. And for the women that had to
move out, my uncles are trying to convince my grandmother, like evicting her, to
move out from the house so that they can take care of her because it is safe, but the
community she lives in and the people that have moved in, like John is a new
resident there. Even if it is for twenty (20) years she feels safe around them, she
does not want to leave. So even if she left, the intent was not from her it was from
their landlord which is my uncles (inaudible) to the house because now her name is
on it because my grandfather passed away, I still have to take care of her, I am still
the landlord. I do not want her to move out. That is the same thing with my uncle, I
do not want him to move out and now there is two (2) generations in his house, and
yes, it is Kepa's house as well, but you learn to value it and you take care and you
maintain it, it becomes yours. It is a month -to- month, and they did have to learn
about that in the past few years but I think it was abrupt that they had learned
that they have to move out and get evicted. It takes time, it takes planning and
processing to get to that point, so it would have been nicer if they knew way ahead
before just getting one hundred - twenty (120) days eviction. There was planning way
before that. That is what I wanted to share. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. The next speaker was?
PHOEBE ENG, WAIMEA RESIDENT: I am in support of this
resolution. I thank our Councilmembers for lifting us up into a conversation where
we can really prove what Kaua`i as a community is. This resolution poses a simple
ask to the Council. It merely allows the Council to show its moral leadership. The
question before each of you is how much are you willing to stand on the side of
humanity and the Kaua`i people and the preservation of Hawaiian lifestyle? How
willing are you to guide us, your constituents toward a culture that prioritizes
human life above bottom line and deadline driven reasoning where intangibles such
COUNCIL MEETING 34 MARCH 14, 2012
as culture, `ohana, aloha, and love are not and cannot be quantified? This resolution
does not involve or mandate involvement of the Council in landlord- tenant issues, it
merely opens communication channels so that we do not descend into legal battles
that are expensive and time consuming for all parties and that are undesirable by
all. By the way, Councilmember Chang, with all due respect, many leases are
month -to -month tenancies. They often continue for many years and many decades
with respectful workout between landlord and tenant, but thank you for bringing up
that point; it is an important one (1). Eviction seems to be too brutal a hammer to
send a message that merely says by a developer that we want to build affordable
homes. There are better ways that do not punish people by forcing them to leave
because they happen to inhabit the only parcel currently zoned residential. Our
Koloa Camp `ohana is more than a convenient building zone. If zoning changes are
needed then let us work together to change them, let us work through those
timelines, let us work through those cost issues and change them together. Also
Councilmember Chang, I also feel that as we focus more and more on the
substantive issue of adjudicating the merits of month -to -month and all these things
that are involved in the landlord tenant code, that we are actually in fact involving
the Council more and more in advocacy on those issues. So I hope instead let us
honor the spirit of the resolution that says let them work that out together. I would
also like to address Councilmember Rapozo's concern, good morning
Councilmember, regarding the resolution clause on citing a specific developer. I feel
the overall intention is what we have to measure today. So Councilmember, if you
are in favor of the spirit of this resolution, then please do use your efforts, your full
and wholehearted efforts, right now to align this clause. Use your efforts, look at the
wording and know for instance by reading it word for word that it is not in any way
binding on the Council. Look what it says, be it for the resolved that the Council
requests the Mayor and his Administration and Grove Farm to provide appropriate
assistance to Peter Savio...
Chair Furfaro: May I interrupt you for a second? That was
your first three (3) minutes and I will give you a little bit to summarize. Thank you.
Ms. Eng: Okay. Appropriate leaves you a lot of leeway.
If appropriate means there is no appropriate assistance then that is fine and it is
also very very easy to change this language as Kepa had said to include other
developers quickly. This resolution is reasonable, it is a low level ask that puts each
our hearts right on the line. We are Kaua`i, we are special, and we need not bow our
heads so quickly to last century bottom line that has no room for heart. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Phoebe, we have questions posed to you.
Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you. Thank you for your commentary.
I do have a proposed amendment because I do support the spirit of this resolution. I
COUNCIL MEETING 35 MARCH 14, 2012
am not going to overstep my legal boundary as a Councilmember and do what I
believe is illegal, I am not going to do that. So you may not be satisfied with my
amendment but I can tell you that it does capture the spirit of what I think we are
all trying to do which is reach a resolution. I do want to ask you a question because
you referenced the month -to- month, and I agree, I myself got evicted out of my
business space a few years ago, and I will say it, from Shell Oil. They gave me thirty
(30) days. I wish the Council would have come up and said hey Shell Oil stop your
eviction of Mel Rapozo because he is a small business owner, he is part of the
backbone of small business, but I did not expect that because I think that is a
private issue. I think the philosophy is a good thing, that thirty (30) days I ended up
having to get an attorney to get it extended for ninety (90) days and then one
hundred twenty (120). But you mentioned something that I wholeheartedly agree
speaking to the guy that was the advocate to save Kapaia Bridge Swinging Bridge
because of its cultural historical value, because of its tie to the community and the
plantation. We did not get much support of that. In fact, people said that was too
much money to preserve culture. But I do not think the culture, and again a lot of
the testimony we are receiving is brand new. I am surprised to hear about the
commercial leases and subleases; that is not the plantation camp culture. Would
you agree?
Ms. Eng: Would I agree with?
Mr. Rapozo: Would you agree that in fact when you look
back at the culture of our plantation camps, it was not set -up to have businesses in
the camp and then to sublease; it was to house the camp workers. I am asking yes
or no.
Ms. Eng: Yes, these are questions that further
discussion between the parties will be able to work out.
Mr. Rapozo: I guess I am trying to understand your,
because you referenced the culture, and I agree I think we need to preserve
whatever we have because once it is gone, it is gone. I am kind of concerned when I
hear that we have commercial leases going on in these camps.
Ms. Eng: Right. This would be a discussion, I feel. This
would be a discussion that needs the kind of work out that this resolution provides.
I will also say, Councilmember, that if there were a strong community, I wish that
you would have had a community behind you to fight on your month -to -month lease
with Shell. So this is the kind of thing when you talk about plantation culture.
What was developed at the Koloa Camp is `ohana, it is sticking up for one (1)
another, it is finding ways forward, and yes there is a lot of back and forth. The land
is used in all kinds of ways that support life, that support family, that support
sustainable and perpetual ways of living together. So those are the kinds of things
COUNCIL MEETING 36 MARCH 14, 2012
that I would hope that we can honor both the tenants, the longterm
multi - generational family tenants to work out with Grove Farm which is what this
resolution asks for.
Mr. Rapozo: Well it does and it asks for a whole lot more,
I think, that we must be cautious as Councilmembers, because I will say that there
is a, and I did my own research and the Manoa Neighborhood Board got involved
with a landlord- tenant issue and in fact were warned that they would be on their
own if they acted outside of the scope of their duties. There is also a Supreme Court
case where it was the State Legislature though in fact tried to pass a land, and
granted this is a resolution, but I think people need to understand that a resolution,
although not enforceable and it is not a mandate, it does carry weight and it does
create an influence. So I think we need to understand that, it is not just a
suggestion. Resolutions are intended to convey the policy of the entire Council. But
if you look at that HRPT versus Lingle, and I am not going to read it, but I am just
saying that the Supreme Court ruled that hey Legislature you stay out of private
landlord- tenant disputes. I think we need to be cautious of that and there is a line
that we can move up to to encourage, but I think there comes a point where we need
to say hey we want to see the win -win, of course we want to see the plantation camp
preserved. But I think we have to do it in a way that is within our legal parameters
as I have stated earlier, because I do not want to see the County, including you as
the taxpayer, to get sued because of undue influence and undue attempts by the
legislative body to get involved in a private matter. That is my concern. I appreciate
your testimony.
Ms. Eng: Did you have a question?
Mr. Rapozo: My question was about the commercial and
residential, do you believe that is part of the cultural make -up of a plantation camp?
I do not believe it is, I will tell you right now. My grandparents, my parents, we are
all plantation camp people. I think most of us, anybody that was born here or have
been here for any length of time, originated out of a plantation camp.
Ms. Eng: So when families give each other food and
eggs and share things that are outside of the money system, but when they start to
move into a culture that is being talked about here, it is very hard to transition
from a barter `ohana driven trade system where you give out of love and you receive
out of love, into a system where people are just trying to move into another way of
life and they are going to bump up against this. These are big questions as the
transitions.
Chair Furfaro: Your three (3) minutes has expired. If
Mr. Rapozo would like to pose you a question, I will let you add dialogue.
COUNCIL MEETING 37 MARCH 14, 2012
Mr. Rapozo: The only other question, Mr. Chair, is if you
have your testimony? I do not believe if I saw yours in all those that I have read.
time.
Ms. Eng: I can type it up.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay. Or you can send it to me at a later
Ms. Eng: Okay.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you very much.
Ms. Eng: Thank you.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you Mr. Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Phoebe, thank you very much. To the
audience, I am going to take a ten minute break at this time, but I do want to
announce to those who might have come in earlier, my intention is going to be to
continue with testimony from the public, then have an opportunity to hear from
Grove Farm, and then hear from our legal counsel. We are going to take a caption
break right now before we put you on the live mic. Ten (10) minutes, it will just be
ten (10) minutes please.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 11:27 a.m., reconvened at
11:40 a.m., and proceeded as follows:
(Mr. Bynum was noted as excused.)
Chair Furfaro: We are back in session from recess.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Chair Furfaro: Marty you have the floor.
MARTY KUALA, RESIDENT: (Inaudible) across from the proposed Koloa
Camp development for thirty -two (32) years. I urge you to vote yes on Resolution
No. 2012 -29. I understand private property rights and landlord- tenants
relationships, in fact I am a landlord. But the situation in Koloa goes beyond rights
and relationships and it has a good chance of being resolved to the satisfaction and
benefit of all parties. In addition, eviction of the tenants is very premature at this
time since Grove Farm does not have a plan before the County. The Koloa Camp
site plan has many problems to overcome such as excess traffic on Wailani Road,
plus their plans to add extensive fill to bring the camp to above flood level which
COUNCIL MEETING 38 MARCH 14, 2012
could cause potential term flooding on any road, the Koloa Ball Park soccer field,
and the tennis courts. If the site cannot be approved by the County, thirteen (13)
families would have been needlessly left homeless. It seems sensible to delay
evictions at least until the project has been deemed feasible and permits are being
issued. Do you have any questions regarding my testimony?
Chair Furfaro: Any questions for the testifier? If not, I
thank you very much.
Ms. Kuala: Thank you very much for your comments and
for listening to my comments. I do have a letter from Louie Abrams, the President
of Koloa Community Association. Would you like me to read that to you now?
Chair Furfaro: Because he is the President of the K5loa
Community Association I will allow you to read his testimony. It is not typically
that I have other people do testimony for people that are absent, but because this is
a Koloa issue and he is the President, I will let you read that testimony.
Ms. Kuala: Mahalo Jay. Councilmembers, we do
appreciate you taking the time to consider testimony to the proposed resolution
drafted by Councilmembers Yukimura and Kuali`i. Kepa Kruse proposed an
innovative solution to this emotional situation in his testimony to Hawai`i Senators
on February 28 for Resolution SR -19. He proposed to extend the R6 zoning to the
remainder of the parcel that is separated by the bypass road. We support this
solution, and if it manifests itself, see it offers a possible solution. I attach this
testimony for your reference. I have it here.
Koloa Community Association supports and will get involved in supporting
the proposal to up -zone the adjacent Grove Farm property from ag to R6 because it
is a logical place to have an additional affordable housing, and if the parties agree,
Grove Farm and K5loa Camp tenants and our County Administration and Council
will support this change, this is a win -win situation for all. We are of the opinion
that this type of proposal will address the economic incentive Grove Farm would
view as attractive enough to consider seriously, which then would provide the
tenants time to work with Peter Savio in crafting a purchase agreement that pays
Grove Farm a fair market value on its property. We also are of the opinion that
Grove Farm will need to hear from the Council and Administration that they are
committed to pursuing this up- zoning for additional affordable housing before they
make a decision to take the time and additional risk.
Chair Furfaro:
Ms. Kuala:
Thank you very much.
Would you like a copy of this?
COUNCIL MEETING 39 MARCH 14, 2012
Chair Furfaro: Yes I would. Scott, could we collect that copy
of the testimony? May I ask, is there any questions regarding Mr. Abrams
testimony? Thank you very much. Again I am looking for people who have not
signed up to testify; as we are moving forward, this is my third request. You can
sign up at the podium and the next order who do we have please?
CRAIG CONTRADES, RESIDENT: There is something disturbing about
this resolution. I just do not see how this is any business of the legislative or
administrative bodies of our County. We have a lot of double speak going on here.
There is talk about a non - binding resolution and yet much of the testimony is
talking about what the Council will do even in this non - binding resolution.
Mr. Chairman, you talked about bringing in the County Attorney. I do not think
there is a lot of wisdom in putting the County at this kind of risk, it is excessive
litigation as we all know and I do not see how this is valid. My grandfather ran the
Kapa'a Cannery, my father grew up in the plantations, I used to spend my summers
in Makaweli Camp with my cousin, none of my friends that I grew up with were not
touched directly with the plantation life, and it's pretty much gone. That is a sad
thing. The remnants in Koloa Camp or the people remaining there are not involved
in the Plantation, not directly, except for one (1). I get what is going on here, this is
politics, I get that. But how many people have lost their homes in just the last few
years during this economic downturn? Are we going to intervene for them too?
There is a mortgage crisis going on. When we use words like just and equitable, the
insinuation is that the present course of action is not just and equitable, that is
basically what you are saying because you are searching for one (1) that is,
insinuating that the one (1) that exists is not. How many landowners are actively
involved after evicting their tenants in seeking out living conditions for their prior
tenants? Is the Council going to decide and pass a resolution deeming what is best
or in the best interest of not just the people involved but also in Grove Farm's daily
operations? If Grove Farm makes a mal- investment, is the Council going to
intervene? If they build these homes, is the Council going to intervene and help out
Grove Farm? Lots of people are losing their homes. I understand the sentiments,
this is a very emotional thing and lots of people are losing their homes, but I do not
see how this is the kuleana of this particular legislative body to pass resolutions,
although non - binding, intervening in the operational affairs of a private landowner.
Mr. Topenio: Three (3) minutes Mr. Chair.
Chair Furfaro: You can summarize if you would like.
Mr. Contrades: I just did.
Chair Furfaro: Let me share some comments as Chairman
of this Council. It has been my practice to have this Council participate in issues
within our community because we are the steward. Your comments about the
COUNCIL MEETING 40 MARCH 14, 2012
resolution are well received and we clearly understand that is a policy statement
and we need to make sure the other media outlets have in fact understood. We have
no actual jurisdiction in causing an action, but we do have an opportunity to be a
vehicle for the community in facilitating any positive outcomes. It has been my
practice as Chairman, when the smart meter issue came to the Council, it was a
PUC issue but we provided a forum. When the Kekaha Community Action piece
regarding the landfill, which is clearly an issue between the Administration and
that community, we provided an opportunity for Mr. Bulatao. So I am sharing with
you this is a vehicle to share dialogue. Your cautions as it relates to probable issues
that could be cultivated from an action by this Council is a warning well received.
Mr. Contrades: There is also a precedent like what
Councilmember Rapozo mentioned.
Chair Furfaro: Yes. I think I mentioned that in my original
comments; I do not know if you were present. Your caution and your comments I
can tell you are well received, but I do think as the stewards of this Council, when
we do put things on this Council floor, it is to have open and reasonable dialogue.
But again your caution is well received. Is there any other questions for Mr.
Contrades? Vice Chair.
Ms. Yukimura:
Mr. Contrades:
Hi.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you for the points you have raised
because I think if they are in your mind, they are in other people's minds as well. I
guess my question is do you have any relationship to Grove Farm?
Mr. Contrades: Yes. I am a lessrr. I have Grove Farm
property, I lease Grove Farm property.
Ms. Yukimura: You lease a Grove Farm property. Are you
interested in the housing that they might be building?
Mr. Contrades: No. I am landowner and I am interested in
fair and equitable treatment of landowners.
Ms. Yukimura: I see.
Mr. Contrades: So I would not want this body involving itself
in my affairs if I were to have to deal with a tenant.
Ms. Yukimura: Right.
Hi Mr. Contrades.
COUNCIL MEETING 41 MARCH 14, 2012
Mr. Contrades: However emotional that tenant might be
about it.
Ms. Yukimura: Alright. The thing is that this resolution is
not deeming anything, it is not saying this shall be or this shall be, it is just asking
the parties to sit down. Do you feel that that is wrong?
Mr. Contrades: Absolutely. This is not the kuleana of a
legislative body. Let me explain something. I read a little bit about how our Country
was founded, separation of powers exist very clearly — judicial, legislative, and
administrative. If there is an issue with that camp, I have heard about the duck or
something, pass a law, allow the appropriate agency to enforce that law, and the
relative powers are preserved. To use a legislative body to come up with a resolution
however non - binding quote un- quote, it is I think is problematic. Where do you
stop? Are you going to do this for other landowners or other tenants that are losing
their homes? While I was back there I did a google search; back in November 4,
2011 there were about two hundred (200) properties on Kaua`i that were distressed.
Are you going to help them?
Ms. Yukimura: Yes.
Mr. Contrades: Really?
Ms. Yukimura: Yes.
Mr. Contrades: You are going to have resolutions helping...
Ms. Yukimura: There are different ways to respond to
problems out in the community, some may be laws and others may be resolutions.
This resolution is respecting Grove Farm's rights, it is just asking them to be who
they say they are which is a triple bottom line company. So there are different ways
to respond.
Mr. Contrades: So that presumes that what Grove Farm has
been doing is not in keeping with what you just asked for.
Ms. Yukimura: What Grove Farm has been proposing is
cutting people out, and we are just asking them to see if there are ways to keep
people there but also achieve Grove Farm's goals as well.
Mr. Contrades: Well in your (inaudible) and the record will
show this, you used terms like protecting the community or just getting people out;
COUNCIL MEETING 42 MARCH 14, 2012
if you look back on the record that is what you were saying. I do not think that is
constructive, personally.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Well maybe we disagree on that but
thank you very much for coming to speak, we appreciate it.
Mr. Contrades: You are welcome.
Chair Furfaro: And I would also like to say again, I think
Councilwoman's response to those two hundred (200) other distressed individuals
was her opinion. The reality is we are here to serve people, and we are providing a
forum. I again thank you for your cautions. Mr. Rapozo did you have a question?
Mr. Rapozo: No.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much for your testimony.
Mr. Contrades: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Next speaker.
JOHN KRUSE, KOLOA CAMP RESIDENT: Aloha Council Chairman and
Councilmembers. For the record my name is John Kruse, I am a tenant, I live in
Grove Farm Camp called Japanese Camp.
Chair Furfaro: John since you are a tenant, please make a
note that we will give him six (6) minutes speaking time. Go ahead John.
Mr. J. Kruse: Thanks. For all of you to take the...I work for
the County of Kaua`i in the Real Property Division, I wanted to tell you I took
vacation today to come to this body so there will be no impropriety. I am speaking
because we have lived there, Kepa was born there, my son, my wife passed away in
1994. I wrote two (2) letters when November 8 I got a letter from Grove Farm to
cancel our tenancy and to leave the camp in one hundred twenty (120) days. So I
wrote a letter to Senator Dan Inouye and I wrote a letter to retired General Eric
Shinseki. Most of the people in that camp, including myself, we are all veterans, all
those families, either World War II, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan. I kind of
take issue with...being a veteran you serve your Country, and then I know some of
you are veterans, but sometimes like when I came home from service in Vietnam, I
had a couple of screws loose. I had to go to see Tripler Hospital, but I am very calm
now in negative circumstances, and what we had here today, I appreciate you
hearing all of our stories. The individual that just spoke, he said nobody works for
Grove Farm. My great grandfather came from Brockunvesa (sp ?), sailed a whole
year with his family around the horn to get to Kaua`i, it took one (1) whole year. He
COUNCIL MEETING 43 MARCH 14, 2012
brought the first steam plow and he worked for Grove Farm for four (4) years to pay
off the passage for his family coming. I am named after my great grandfather's
brother. My son is named after me. I strongly urge you to look into your hearts,
maybe that resolution has to be amended. I think sometimes we forget that when
we look forward and we are going forward and times are always changing, we have
to look at where we came from. I think you have the power and you have the
community at heart to do whatever is the right thing. If you have any other
questions I can answer, fire away.
Chair Furfaro: Members, questions for Mr. Kruse? John,
thank you very much.
Chair Furfaro:
question.
them?
Mr. J. Kruse:
Aloha.
John, Councilmember Nakamura has a
Ms. Nakamura: How many homes are there now on the
twelve (12) acres?
Mr. J. Kruse: How many homes with people living in
Ms. Nakamura:. Homes, housing structures.
Mr. J. Kruse: On the real property list it says there are
eighteen (18) structures in that whole enclave of the 24.275 acres, nine (9) families
live there, thirteen (13) leases. Leases are by people growing vegetables, by cut
flowers, by chickens, dog kennels.
Ms. Nakamura: Of those eighteen (18) structures, in your
opinion, how many do you think can be restored and how many are beyond
restoration? It could be just your best guess.
Mr. J. Kruse: All of them probably could be restored, but
how do you want to restore them back to livable conditions or is that what you are
trying to get at?
Ms. Nakamura: Yes.
Mr. J. Kruse: Well that is a hard one (1).
Ms. Nakamura: Okay.
COUNCIL MEETING 44 MARCH 14, 2012
Mr. J. Kruse: That building where John Patt lives, in the
ceiling there was a plaque put up there in that ceiling because it was built by the
Japanese workers and two (2) of the names were Muraoka and Shimanuku. This
was built in 1892 for the Japanese School and I guess if you wanted to build them
all to make them to look like the old plantation way you could do that. But as far as
right now there are only those nine (9) families, nine (9) tenants that live in those
houses.
Ms. Nakamura: Okay. Thank you.
Mr. J. Kruse:
Chair Furfaro:
Thanks.
Next speaker please.
JERI DIPIETRO, KOLOA RESIDENT: Aloha County Councilmembers,
my name is Jeri DiPietro, I live in Koloa. Please support Resolution No. 2012 -29
calling for a solution at Koloa Camp that will explore alternatives to the
preservation and restoration of these important symbols of our K5loa Town history.
Not only is this a thriving, loving, and affordable housing area that grows local food,
it is an area that tells the story • and trials of our proud past. There are school
buildings, places of worship, the gym, many individual homes that are worth
respect and restoration. This is a picture of the school house. It is a beautiful symbol
as are all of the cement paths and the trails there. Once it is gone, it is gone. Koloa
Camp should continue to be a true local family area. These amazing homes should
be cared for on this lovely in -town parcel. Plantation camps have much to teach us
about sustainability and the caring for one (1) another. This is a true community
and they should not be forced to leave when options do exist for the building of
additional affordable houses on other land. In the last decade Koloa has lost many
historic sites; these things will never come back. I think we would all benefit to see
these homes restored. This area tells so many stories and it exemplifies plantation
style living. As we look to re- invent intentional communities where people live in
harmony with the land and each other, Koloa Camp is a model. This is a perfectly
situated in -town parcel, a walkable community, the families look out for one (1)
another, they know the land, they take care of it, the children are safe to play
outside, people have gardens, and established fruit trees. One (1) of the homes as I
showed you in the photo is the old school house. The people who live there are long
time residents. It is peaceful, it is everything you would try to recreate if you were
to build a new neighborhood. While we wait to begin the Koloa- Po`ipu Plan update,
we are identifying the future of our community as a whole. It is challenging to find
room for complete streets and safe routes to school. Koloa Camp is a perfect fit.
With Koloa and Po'ipu being the economic engine of our island, we strive to find
local housing and safe routes to school and retain community in a tourist
destination area. The win -win here is to retain Koloa Camp and build additional
affordable housing. These tenants would like the opportunity to buy their homes. If
COUNCIL MEETING 45 MARCH 14, 2012
an owner wants to sell, it is not uncommon to offer the first right of refusal to the
tenant, that is just good form in landlord- tenant relations. There have been public
meetings in Koloa to discuss the situation, two (2) with Grove Farm and one (1)
with the Mayor; the residents facing eviction are actively pursuing all avenues.
Mr. Topenio: Three (3) minutes Mr. Chair.
Ms. DiPietro: I will sum up. They are pursuing all avenues
of alternatives for a win -win. The State Senate voted almost unanimously to
support a resolution introduced by Senator Clayton Hee to preserve Koloa Camp
and a companion resolution will be heard in The House. Folks from the outer island
are weighing in on this matter too. This is much more than just convenient zoning,
alternatives do exist, and mahalo to the County Council for introducing this
resolution. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Any questions for the speaker? Mr. Chang.
Mr. Chang: Jeri, thank you for coming. I inquired and I
happened to see a list of potential buyers or those who are maybe interested, and if
I am not mistaken, there is about fifty (50) or sixty (60). Do you realize that some of
the existing tenants are on the top of the list as far as the first right of refusal?
Ms. DiPietro: Well yes, but that is for the new homes the
pre- fabricated models that have been talked about being shipped in from China.
That is one (1) list, but I think the first right of refusal should be to buy their homes
on the land.
ahead.
Mr. Chang: Okay I understand.
Ms. DiPietro: These homes are all on beautiful large pieces
of land, manageable, but large enough to actually have... community have gardens;
there is room perhaps in the camp to add a few parcels and a few homes in. But we
really think there are other alternate sites that would actually better serve a fifty
(50) home neighborhood as far as ingress and egress.
Mr. Chang: Okay. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. You have a question? Go right
Mr. Kuali`i: Hi Jeri, aloha and mahalo for being here.
Just one (1) quick question, you mentioned the Koloa- Po`ipu Town Plan Update, and
you also showed us a picture of the school house. In the existing plan, has the
community identified the camp in any way, and if not, do you think that was an
COUNCIL MEETING 46 MARCH 14, 2012
oversight? How much of this school house is still, from the picture you showed, is it
a really old photo?
Ms. DiPietro: It is a photo from, I think it is maybe taken
in the 1930's, but the home is still there, it is large. The Koloa- Po`ipti Town Plan, as
you know, has not formally been started yet, and I think we are now actually a little
bit even more on the backburner waiting maybe for the CZO update first. But as we
look at our different issues in Koloa as far as Hapa Trail circulation and access to
beach and walkable sites, Koloa Camp is a good fit, it is great where it is. We do
look, when we look at the maps of Koloa- Po`ipu, we do look at peoples of where will
expansion go because it is inevitable. There are sites, of course this one (1)
identified is something that even before this incident came up we looked at as a
possible site for other affordable homes. Of course as you get closer to the ocean,
values goes up, but in this area near the post office is a great place for local families,
and there is not many of that in Koloa- Po`ipu.
Mr. Kuali`i: You also made the point about it being a
good example of it being a sustainable neighborhood and something that we should
preserve as much as possible.
Ms. DiPietro: Absolutely. I just came back from visiting my
mom on the mainland, and I am dealing with some tenant issues over there, and
there are so many cutbacks with police and fire on the mainland that, well, why do
the police do not something when you see violence happening, and there is not that
staffing. When I have been visiting the Koloa Camp I realized these folks look out
for each other, there are no problems, they are the stewards. When we have had
extreme weather or anything, it is the people that know the neighborhoods that are
best suited to take care of things. We have programs in place now to train folks on
neighborhood watches and things. This is an ideal situation that is organic; these
folks know each other, there is total trust, and safety. God bless the child who has
his own. These folks take care of themselves.
Mr. Kuali`i: Thank you very much. Thank you Mr. Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Councilmember Nakamura.
Ms. Nakamura: Hi Jeri, thank you for being here, thanks for
your testimony. I have a question, are you a member of the Koloa Community
Association?
Ms. DiPietro: Yes. I am a member and I am also an officer.
Ms. Nakamura: I have a question because earlier we heard
Louis Abrams' written testimony about his support of upzoning adjacent lands from
COUNCIL MEETING 47 MARCH 14, 2012
ag to R6. I was wondering, was that his personal testimony? Does that come from
the Community Association?
Ms. DiPietro: That idea actually came from the community
outside of the Community Association in these meetings that we have had at the
neighborhood center. When you have the maps' out this was identified' and as we
looked into it further' it was the right size, I think it has similar TMK numbers' and
that we realized it would be something that could be rezoned without having to go
before the Land Use Commission because it is an appropriate size, it is owned by
Grove Farm, and it seems to fit the other criteria in some ways even better than
trying to remake...
Ms. Nakamura: So the Community Association would
support a rezoning?
Ms. DiPietro: Yes, we would.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you very much for that clarification.
Ms. DiPietro: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Any other members? If not, I have a
question. With the Koloa Community Association being more familiar with the
Koloa area than I am as coming from the North Shore, do you know if when the
road was redirected through there that that actually cut that tax key map item in
half and thus exhausted the one -time subdivision rule for that parcel?
Ms. DiPietro: You know I am not exactly sure. That point
was brought up, but I believe that it was in favor of us being able to easily rezone it.
I would have to probably, Louie would be able to answer that. It did fit the criteria
that we were looking for; even with that road going in there to divide it, it was still
suitable. Thank you, that is a good question.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. If not, thank you very much for
your testimony. Next speaker please?
KEN TAYLOR, RESIDENT: Chair, members of the Council, my name is
Ken Taylor. I am here today speaking in favor of this resolution. I think historic
preservation is a very important part of our economic future. This resolution would
give us an opportunity to take a look, a deeper look into the preservation of this site.
I think it is a very important one (1). It also gives us an opportunity to look at
affordable housing. We have here, the County in the past and today and into the
future is going to be spending a lot of time and a lot money on affordable housing.
We have here affordable housing that can increase and at the same time this project
COUNCIL MEETING 48 MARCH 14, 2012
can be relocated in the vicinity and not have a problem. So I think that it is
certainly a win -win situation to pass the resolution and give the community and
Grove Farm an opportunity to sit down at the table and discuss and hopefully have
the County move what is necessary forward to expedite the changes that would be
needed so that we save affordable housing and increase the affordable housing stock
at the same time giving the landowner an opportunity to build the fifty (50) units
that he would like to build. One (1) of the things that I see in this as a win -win
situation, in this fifty (50) unit project he was suggesting thirteen (13) of these units
would be affordable housing. So if saving these existing affordable units and the
new ones that could be built in the camp would be credited to his project, now his
fifty (50) units are all at market rate which is an economic benefit to him. I think
there are a lot of issues that he talked about and discussed and everybody can come
out whole on this project and that it is a win -win for the community from the
standpoint of preserving historic activity that has taken place on the island. I think
that is very important especially in Koloa where they celebrate Old Koloa Days and
all of that.
Mr. Topenio: Three (3) minutes Mr. Chair.
Mr. Taylor: And then we have the affordable housing. So
I think if there needs to be some minor changes to this resolution let us do it and
approve it and move forward. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you Ken. Any questions for Ken?
Thank you again. Next speaker.
DENNIS CHUN, RESIDENT: Aloha kakou. My name is Dennis Chun. I am
a little nervous right now because I am on tv, millions of people watching me and I
do not know what I am saying. I am actually here just to kind of support this
resolution. The specific wording I am not sure of, I am not a legal person so I know
there are a lot of legal people here that understand that language. I am supporting
it more on the sense of moral issues or philosophical issues. Culture is an important
aspect, it is something that is held dearly by I think all of us. We all understand
that cultures do change. But I think what is happening here is that we are losing
things that we do not even understand yet and we are just going ahead with the
bottom line, which for companies nowadays is money. But we need to remember
where we came from. Grove Farm came from a plantation camp and there are some
things that I was listening today and I was like wait that is...it seemed to have
detracted from what the issue was which was supporting this resolution or not. The
issues of whether there was commercialism or commercial businesses in a
plantation camp, there were businesses. If not individuals that started businesses
in the plantation camp, it was the plantation itself that had their business in the
plantation camp. So they were making money off of making money. That is not the
issue. The issue is do we believe philosophically or even morally that we should
COUNCIL MEETING 49 MARCH 14, 2012
cherish these things and continue them on into the future and have people
understand that this was the past and that is taking us to where we are now. That
is why I am supporting this resolution. There are other issues that I kind of, there is
some rebutted to. You could say should the legislature be involved in tenancy kind
of issues? Well, go back and look at what happened to Bishop Estate where
Kamehameha Schools having to sell off Hawai`i Kai. I mean that was a legislative
thing that occurred. So yes, there is a balance but there is precedent at the same
time. There is a lot of things, I am just speaking I have no written testimony other
than the resolution here and I am just listening to people and responding and just
speaking from what I feel. I have lost faith in a sense with Grove Farm who I grew
up with and thought was a very good local company that understood the people and
kind of backed up their employees or people that have worked for the company or
whatever; not necessarily with the company but I think more with the leadership
style that has come across. I have lost faith. I have lost the trust.
Chair Furfaro: Dennis, that was three (3) minutes so I need
to let you summarize.
Mr. Chun: So I think I support the resolution. There
may be some legal issues that need to be addressed, but I think I support it from a
very moral and philosophical position. I think there is precedent intervention or at
least getting the dialogue going. I think the leadership of Grove Farm should be a
little bit more sensitive to the community. Just because they are landlords it does
not make it right. That is just kind of the best summary that I can come up with at
the time.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Let me see if there are any
questions of you. Any questions of Dennis? Thank you very much for your
testimony.
Mr. Chun: Mahalo.
Chair Furfaro: A conclusion has come of our registered
speakers and I am just going to ask one (1) more time before I bring up Grove Farm,
is there anyone in the audience who is unregistered and would like to speak? Come
right up sir.
JAY K. CLARKE, RESIDENT: My name is Jay K. Clarke. I am here to
support the resolution. But one (1) of my fast friends from four (4) or five (5) years
old is John Kruse. In hearing the testimony I was educated on how well the
democratic works. To have this discussion is marvelous. What became apparent to
me is nobody spoke to the contribution that the tenants have made over the forty
(40), or fifty (50), or sixty (60) years they have lived on this property. Physically
they have kept the roads clear; when a storm comes through, they clean -up, they
COUNCIL MEETING 50 MARCH 14, 2012
keep the vermon out of town, they all worked, contributed, paid taxes, grew families
who are now participating. So this should be accounted for and I know that the
landlord appreciates it. The Wilcox family, when they owned Grove Farm, took care
of people and other people have spoken to that. There is no reason that the landlord
should even be listening to this conversation, and that they are here today I think
they should appreciate them for their ability to see this. Back in the old days this
would not have even been happening. So that goes to show how we seem to become
more going along. I think it is really apparent and people should look at the
contribution that these families have made over the years. The ones that are not
here have died, the ones that moved out when they got the notice, and these other
individuals, and I know that Grove Farm is going to try to do the best thing that
they can. I just commend everybody for speaking up. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you Mr. Clarke. Any questions of
Mr. Clarke? Thank you very much. This is the last call for people who are interested
in testifying before I call up a representative from Grove Farm. Is there any
representatives from Grove Farm? David.
DAVID HINAZUMI, PROJECT MANAGER, GROVE FARM: Good
morning Chair Furfaro and members of the Council. My name is David Hinazumi
and I am here on behalf of Grove Farm. I guess right off the bat I would ask for a
little leeway on the three (3) minutes.
Chair Furfaro: Well I am going to give you six (6) and then I
will judge where we are going from there, but do know there will be questions and
answers from the Councilmembers.
Mr. Hinazumi: Yes. In this project, what we are attempting
to provide is housing opportunities for up to fifty (50) families in the Koloa area. We
have heard a lot about the history of the camp and the tenants, and I believe what
Councilmember and others have said is yes, we all have ties to the plantations,
what Grove Farm was a plantation. It acquired Koloa Plantation in 1948 along with
the surrounding camps, ran sugar until 1974, and then when Grove Farm ceased
running sugar operations, leased out the lands to McBryde. And so Grove Farm
continued to provide housing for the plantation workers. In the camp there is one
(1) surviving spouse of a worker who had worked for Koloa and then Grove Farm
Plantation and then moved on to McBryde. From what I have learned with the
plantations is that once the workers would move out or unfortunately pass away,
they would knock down the homes. But in this case, Grove Farm had, there is the
one (1) tenant like I said is a surviving spouse, opened up the housing to other
Grove Farm employees who worked in other entities, and then it also opened up
further to other people who did not have the tie to Grove Farm.
COUNCIL MEETING 51 MARCH 14, 2012
Koloa area, if you take a look at Waikomo Subdivision, Waila'au, and even
where Wailani Road is, there were camp homes spread out through there. It has
been a natural progression to improve the homes and build new homes for people to
live in. So there has been the natural progression throughout Waikomo and even
next door to the camp along Wailani Road that was a subdivision that was created
as houselots and people were able to build and are now very proud to, from what we
can tell, happy to live in Koloa. Continuing that transition, we get to K5loa Camp
which is in the Urban District, General Planned Residential, zoned residential to
put in a project that we are hoping to get up to fifty (50) Koloa families in there.
To go over our communications with the tenants, I started speaking to them
about this project late October of last year. I was able to meet with each of them
individually and then we submitted the... sent out the notices and we gave everyone
four (4) month notices. During the initial conversations we talked about the project,
what we are trying to do, we offered everyone the first right to purchase in the
project, and we are creating this priority list and it starts with the tenants, any
family members, any friends that they provide to us; that is the core of the priority
list for purchase in this new project. And then from there we want to expand to the
surrounding community. It is quite a unique opportunity where basically you are
starting with the tenants, and the surrounding Koloa community basically dictate
who is, or at least recommending who gets, the first right to purchase in the project.
Right now all of the tenants, they are renters, and basically as landlord- tenant is we
provide the housing, they pay us rent, and that is the very general agreement. Once
you pay rent that is it. I imagine most of us have rented, you pay a rent, and this is
it. You do not earn equity. What we are trying to do is convert everyone from a
renter to a homeowner, because the home ownership, that is what we can truly pass
on to our children, our grandchildren, that is what we are trying to create in this
situation. We did advise everyone to please contact the County Housing Agency
right away to look into programs for assistance, look into how to become homebuyer
ready. This Council and Administration has done a tremendous job pushing to get
housing...there is a lot of programs and assistance that can be taken advantage of.
There was one (1) couple that moved out within about a month and they are very
gracious and sent us a thank you letter for the many years that they had been
renting there, and also expressing their interest to purchase in the new project. We
do have a house in Lihu`e right below Wilcox Hospital that is available, and we have
made that house available, and we have a tenant that should be checking it out
perhaps as early as this afternoon again. Hopefully we can get her and her family
into that house and we have offered her to, we are offering to donate the existing
house to her so she can move that to another lot that she owns elsewhere.
Mr. Topenio: Six (6) minutes Mr. Chair.
Mr. Hinazumi: We have communicated from the beginning
with each tenant and we have also had, we held a community meeting in December,
COUNCIL MEETING 52 MARCH 14, 2012
we had representatives attend another meeting at the end of December, and then
also Koloa Community Association was gracious enough to host a meeting in
January and we also presented at that time. We recognize the concern about
affordability of a project and we were able to contact Hawaiian Community Assets.
They provide homeownership classes for the County and they have been fantastic.
They came to present at that January meeting, and they are following up with
people on our interested list and they have been trying to follow -up with some of the
tenants as well. It is an ongoing process. At this point like I mentioned, there is one
(1) couple that moved out, one (1) will be able to move into an existing unit at
Pa'anau, one (1) is going to be able to move into our Lihu`e home. We have our
communication open with all of the tenants, the only thing I can ask is that
communication is a two -way street. I can tell you that I have done my best to
communicate to everybody, also recognizing that at the end of that initial four (4)
month notice, even for the folks who had someplace in mind to move, they still
needed more time and others need more time, so we gave everyone an additional
thirty (30) days.
Chair Furfaro: David, since we are required to have a mid-
day break for our staff, we will plan to take a lunch break now that we have got
your overview, and we will come back for some question and answers after lunch.
But I have to tell you, it will not be exactly after lunch because we have another
legal matter that we need to address with attorneys that are here from Honolulu
regarding beach right -of -way. We will handle that and I think we will reconvene
with question and answers around 2:00 p.m. Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: We also have public hearings at 1:30 p.m.
Chair Furfaro: That is right. I am sorry. Thank you for that
reminder. We have three (3) public hearing testimonies, so I would anticipate we
will be back to work on this around 2:30 p.m.
Mr. Hinazumi: Okay.
Chair Furfaro: We are required to mandate this lunch
break. On that note we are going to recess for lunch. Please be back around 1:35
p.m.
There being no objections the meeting recessed at 12:35 p.m.
The meeting reconvened at 1:35 p.m., and proceeded on its agenda as follows:
Chair Furfaro: It is my intent to go to the item earlier
dealing with Mori Golf and the public easement document. Before I go any further,
Councilwoman Nakamura, I would like to recognize you.
COUNCIL MEETING 53 MARCH 14, 2012
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you Chair. Since my husband worked
on some of the legal documents, I would like to recuse myself from this matter.
Chair Furfaro: You are noted as recused. May we read that
item please.
(Ms. Nakamura was noted as recused from C 2012 -54.)
There being no objections, C 2012 -54 was taken out of order.
LEGAL DOCUMENT:
C 2012 -54 Request from the Office of the County Attorney for approval of
the Grant of Pedestrian Access Easement and Cancellation of Portion of Easement
16, made by and between Kaua`i Lagoons LLC, a Hawaii limited liability company,
and Mori Golf (Kaua`i), LLC, a Delaware limited liability company, and the County
of Kaua`i, concerning property identified and being further described as Tax Map
Key Nos. (4) 3 -5- 01:27, 172, 173, and 174.
• Grant of Pedestrian Access Easement and Cancellation of Portion of
Easement 16: Ms. Yukimura moved to approve C 2012 -54, seconded by
Mr. Chang.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much. First before I go any
further, I do want to thank the applicant for providing some excursion services to
members of the Council that wanted to get re- familiar with the parcel; that was
very much appreciated.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: On that note, I would like to suspend the
rules and bring the applicant up if I can.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
IAN JUNG, DEPUTY COUNTY ATTORNEY: Good afternoon Council
Chair and members of the Council. I do not know if you wanted, I guess technically
we are the applicant since we put the request in, but I do not intend our office or
you want...
Chair Furfaro: I will tell you whoever the applicant was.
Mr. Jung: Well we made the formal request.
COUNCIL MEETING 54 MARCH 14, 2012
Chair Furfaro: Then you are the applicant.
Mr. Jung: Okay. So I think the document does speak
for itself, unless members of the Council have any particular questions we could
address. The intent of the re- alignment is to just bring...there were subsequent
subdivision done prior or after 1988 when the original easement was laid, and now
that there are subdivisions done, there is a re- alignment of this particular
easement, and that is the cancellation of it.
Chair Furfaro: I believe those that did participate are
satisfied with the visual tour, but let me ask if there are any questions.
Mr. Jung: Sure.
Chair Furfaro: Vice Chair Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: I just want to thank the gentlemen here for
making that tour available, especially to Tim who came all the way from Honolulu.
It really helped me to understand where the routing was exactly. I was able to
assure myself it did not go off a cliff or into a ravine. It is a wonderful thing that
people will be able to access that little knoll above Running Waters. I really
appreciated the tour. Thank you very much. I am satisfied that it works for the
public.
Chair Furfaro: Councilmembers, any other questions? No. I
believe what I am looking for then is no more questions of the County applicant, no
more questions of the Marriott Resort, so I am looking for public testimony, and
then a motion to approve as such. I am going to excuse all of you. Is there any
members in the public that wish to speak on this easement item?
The meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows:
The motion to approve C 2012 -54 was then put, and unanimously carried.
Chair Furfaro: We are complete with the business on that
particular item, thank you for your patience today. I had indicated that we would
come back to the Grove Farm issue at 2:30 p.m. so on that note, I would like to go
back to where we are on the...I would like to go back to the start of our agenda until
2:30 p.m. so we can get through some business. Mr. Clerk will you take us to a place
and time for today's business.
C 2012 -63 Communication (02/16/2012) from Councilmember Rapozo,
requesting the Administration's presence to provide the Council with:
COUNCIL MEETING 55 MARCH 14, 2012
• An annual (2011 calendar year) synopsis of construction activity in the
County of Kaua`i as reflected in the building permit information that is
normally provided to the Council on a monthly basis.
• A projection of construction activity in the County of Kaua`i for the 2012
calendar year: Mr. Chang moved to defer C 2012 -63, seconded by
Mr. Kuali`i, and unanimously carried.
Chair Furfaro: Because our calendar was sometimes
confusing today and we had a technical flaw in the beginning, and two hours and
fifteen minutes on the Koloa resolution, I assume that the County Engineer's Office
is anticipating a later agenda item, so would I have staff members please call them
and let them know when we are finished with Koloa, they will be the first ones up to
bat. On this one (1) I would like to just go to the next particular item.
C 2012 -70 Communication (02/15/2012) from Bev Brody, Island Coordinator,
Get Fit Kaua`i, transmitting for Council information, an update on the County's
Complete Streets Policy adopted via Resolution 2010 -48: Ms. Nakamura moved to
defer C 2012 -70 to the April 11, 2012 Council Meeting, seconded by Mr. Chang, and
unanimously carried.
Chair Furfaro: I do want to point out to the members that
we did get a request for a deferral to April 11 date and time specific. Thank you
very much, next item.
C 2012 -71 Communication, (02/22/2012) from the Housing Director,
transmitting for Council consideration, a resolution authorizing the filing of the
Kaua`i County 2012 Action Plan with the United States Department of Housing and
Urban Development and Appropriation of Funds for the HOME Investment
Partnership program: Mr. Rapozo moved to receive C 2012 -71 for the record,
seconded by Mr. Chang.
Chair Furfaro: There has been a motion to receive and a
seconded, discussion members? Anyone in the audience wanting to testify on this
item? Seeing no one, Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: Mr. Chair, I am assuming that when we get
to the resolution the Housing Agency will be here?
Chair Furfaro:
Mr. Rapozo:
That is my anticipation as well.
Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Another call to Housing as well so we can get
a little bit more copacetic here today, a Waianae word for balance.
COUNCIL MEETING 56 MARCH 14, 2012
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Further discussion on C 2012 -71?
The motion to receive C 2012 -71 for the record was then put, and
unanimously carried.
C 2012 -72 Communication (02/22/2012) from the Housing Director,
transmitting for Council consideration, a resolution authorizing the filing of the
Kaua`i County 2012 Action Plan with the United States Department of Housing and
Urban Development and Appropriation of Funds for the Community Development
Block Grant Program: Mr. Chang moved to receive C 2012 -72 for the record,
seconded by Mr. Kuali`i.
Chair Furfaro: Vice Chair Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: I have no problem.
Chair Furfaro: No problem, okay.
The motion to receive C 2012 -72 for the record was then put, and
unanimously carried.
Chair Furfaro: I think you missed one (1). We wanted to be
on item C 2012 -73 which is an action from Vice Chair Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: Chair, just for clarification, we went straight
to the resolution, Clerk, so now we just receive this communication I think.
Chair Furfaro: It has already been received.
Ms. Yukimura: We did already? My apologies, I am not
tracking.
Chair Furfaro: That is right, your apologies are accepted.
Ms. Yukimura: Clerk, I am sorry, the Clerk was right.
Chair Furfaro: Now we will go to the Salary Commission.
C 2012 -74 Communication (03/01/2012) from the Chairperson, Salary
Commission, transmitting the Salary Commission's Resolution No. 2012-1,
Resolution Amending Resolution No. 2011 -1 Relating To The Salaries Of Certain
Officers And Employees Of The County of Kaua`i: Ms. Yukimura moved to receive
C 2012 -74 for the record, seconded by Mr. Chang.
COUNCIL MEETING 57 MARCH 14, 2012
Chair Furfaro: We are on Salary Commission resolution, is
there any public testimony? Seeing none, I will call the meeting back to order.
Members discussion? Yes Mr. Rapozo?
Mr. Rapozo: Mr. Chair, well first of all I would like to
thank them for getting it to us before March 15.
Chair Furfaro: I will second that.
Mr. Rapozo: That is a good thing. Now I am assuming
there is, this Council has to take some sort of action. I guess the best thing would
be, because I would really want to have some discussion, I do not want to have it
today. Is there any way we can have this referred possibly to the Committee of the
Whole to have some discussion? I do not see anybody here from the Salary
Commission. I would assume that someone would have been here to discuss the...
Chair Furfaro: I will ditto that, but we have no one from the
Salary Commission here.
Mr. Rapozo: So if there is no objection I would make the
motion to refer this to the Committee of the Whole. We do have, I believe we have
thirty (30) days, correct? Sixty (60) days to take action and I do want to have some
discussion with the Salary Commission or the Administration because this
resolution does again, is set to freeze some salaries and I just kind of want to hear
the rationale, and I kind of want to have a general discussion if it is not a problem.
Chair Furfaro: So we have a motion and you want to refer
that to my committee, the Committee of the Whole?
Mr. Rapozo: In the Committee just so we can have that
discussion; I do not want to tie up today's calendar with any more time on this. So if
there is no objection, I would make a motion.
Ms. Yukimura: I will second.
Chair Furfaro:
take it to?
Mr. Rapozo:
which is on March 21.
Chair Furfaro:
Do we have a date specific that you want to
I will refer it to the Committee of the Whole
Two (2) weeks from now.
COUNCIL MEETING 58 MARCH 14, 2012
Mr. Rapozo moved to refer C 2012 -76 to the Committee of the Whole,
seconded by Ms. Yukimura.
Chair Furfaro: We took public testimony, any more
discussion amongst the members?
Mr. Rapozo: Just that I would ask that a Salary
Commission representative be present.
Chair Furfaro: So noted.
Ms. Yukimura: Point of information. So we are actually
referring the communication and then when we come to the resolution we will refer
the resolution?
Mr. Rapozo: I believe this is the resolution. There is no
separate resolution because this is not a Council resolution, this is a Salary
Commission resolution, and that is attached to the communication.
Ms. Yukimura: It is attached?
Mr. Rapozo: This is all in one (1).
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
The motion to refer C 2012 -74 to the Committee of the Whole meeting on
March 21, 2012 was then put, and unanimously carried.
Chair Furfaro: With a footnote to the Clerk, please send out
with my signature an expectation of having a member and or others from the Salary
Commission present. Next item please.
C 2012 -75 Communication (02/14/2012) from the Planning Director,
requesting Council approval to apply for, receive, indemnify and expend Certified
Local Government (CLG) Grant Funds in the amount of up to $60,000.00 through
the State of Hawai`i, Department of Land and Natural Resources, State Historic
Preservation Division, to work with the County of Kaua`i Historic Preservation
Review Commission in updating the Historic Resource Inventory: Mr. Chang moved
to approve C 2012 -75, seconded by Mr. Rapozo.
Chair Furfaro: It has been moved and seconded, I see the
Planning Director has just arrived, he must have gotten his calling. I will suspend
the rules, do you want to testify in particular on item C 2012 -75 Communication
from the Planning Director on the CLG?
COUNCIL MEETING 59 MARCH 14, 2012
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
MIKE DAHILIG, PLANNING DIRECTOR: Good afternoon Mr. Chair and
members of the Council, Mike Dahilig for the record. We are requesting the
Council's approval to apply for CLG funds to support the Kaua`i Historic
Preservation Commission in its desire to start cataloging a lot of the historic
properties. What we are looking at trying to do with the funds eventually is part of
the proposal to DLNR; I am sorry I am a little winded.
Chair Furfaro: Did you run?
Mr. Dahilig: Yes I did run.
Chair Furfaro: I am impressed. I am impressed. We called,
you ran.
Mr. Dahilig: I need to run anyway. I guess part of the
desire is to maybe look at trying to work at actually digitally cataloging the
information so that it will eventually be uploaded and layered to a GIS type of
mining format. So that is the request before the Council this afternoon.
Chair Furfaro: Members, any questions for the Planning
Director? Go right ahead Councilmember Nakamura.
Ms. Nakamura: I guess this is just more of a comment, but I
just think that the Historic Preservation Review Commission does important work
for this island and I am glad that we are taking advantage of these outside funds. I
believe we are only one (1) of two (2) Counties who have access to these funds.
Mr. Dahilig: That is correct.
Ms. Nakamura: I am just glad that we are taking advantage
of this resource. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: I would like to also say my compliments to
the Department, and if we get the money, I will run a lap with you.
Mr. Dahilig: Okay.
Chair Furfaro: Any other questions for Planning Director?
None. Thank you Mike.
Mr. Dahilig: Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING 60 MARCH 14, 2012
Chair Furfaro: Is there anyone in the audience that would
like to testify on this item?
The meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows:
The motion to approve C 2012 -75 was then put, and unanimously carried.
Chair Furfaro: On this next item I want you to know that the
Prosecuting Attorney's Office is on their way so we will come back to that one (1).
Let us go to the next page please.
C 2012 -77 Communication (03/08/2012) from Vice Chair Yukimura,
requesting agenda time to recap and approve the goals that the Council identified
as top priority items at the January 24, 2012 Council Goal Setting Workshop:
Mr. Rapozo moved to approve C 2012 -77, seconded by Ms. Yukimura.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much. I am going to ask if
there is any public testimony regarding this Council Goal Setting Workshop from
January 24. If there is none, I will call the meeting back to order. Members we have
a motion and second to approve, discussion?
Ms. Yukimura:
Chair Furfaro:
May I?
Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: This really should be considered a draft. We
went through this workshop so we trust that the outcome is some goals that are
going to give us guidance in the Budget Session and throughout the rest of our
term. And so using the notes from the facilitator, I tried to basically cluster the key
points on the worksheets. As you recall we did, with two (2) exceptions, if I have not
been accurate then I welcome amendments, the two (2) exceptions where we did not
have discussions but I thought it would be important to be part of our goals was
number 7(a) — the important ag lands were not really mentioned in our major goals,
but I thought it should be a goal, and if we are in the process of adopting our goals
we might want to consider adding that. And then number 8 is about affordable
housing; we did not have that as one (1) of our major goals either, but I think it
needs to be one (1) of our priorities. So those I believe were the two (2) sort of
additions that I took some liberty to add, but subject to your approval. So if it is not
the will of the Council to add those then we can amend it. The rest are just trying to
re- organize maybe (inaudible) a little bit in terms of the, more of the sub -areas
rather than the main goal. I hope I kept true to the discussions that we had. I knew
Councilmember Nakamura had some current concerns that she and I did not get to
COUNCIL MEETING 61 MARCH 14, 2012
discuss this morning in the pressure of everything else, so I look forward to hearing
her comments and thoughts.
Chair Furfaro: Before I recognize Councilmember
Nakamura, we are asking to approve what you propose is the draft.
Ms. Yukimura: I am submitting it as our proposed goals
synthesized from our workshop, but it is certainly open to amendment so that it
truly reflects the Council's purpose. But I just thought it would be good to have a
completed document instead of just being part of the minutes; it is something that
we can refer to and use as a guide.
Chair Furfaro: I will recognize Councilmember Nakamura
first and then you Mr. Rapozo.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you. Thank you to Councilmember
Yukimura for taking the minutes and putting it into this format which I think is
more useful. I also wanted to, the amendment that I have before you makes a few
changes. One (1) is that when we placed dots next to our priority goals, I wanted to
put it in the order of the goals that had the most dots just to give a sense, I think all
of them are important, I think we arrived at that agreement but just to show the
order of priority. Some of them, two (2) of them with the same number of dots, three
(3) of them with the same number, but it gives us a better sense of where we would
like to see the Administration focus. The other thing that was left out of the original
list was the incremental expansion of the Kaua`i Bus which somehow was left out of
the discussion. I think this includes all of the priority projects that Councilmembers
identified. So it is just sort of re- ordering and adding the incremental expansion of
the Kaua`i Bus. I did some wordsmithing on referring to the comprehensive
economic development strategy since that is what we refer to it, that report, the
economic diversification report. So I just made a few clarifications and re- ordering,
but I think most of what Councilmember Yukimura put in there was retained in
this amended version.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: I just had a question. I asked the Deputy
Clerk to go get whatever the report was from the facilitator that we hired. I may
have just not seen it, I may have missed it, but I was curious if she had put together
a report of what the results were. If that did come, I apologize I did not get it, so I
just asked the Deputy Clerk to go get that, whatever she provided. I had assumed
that we were going to get some sort of recap from her because my memory is not as
good as many of you, I would need to refresh. The Deputy Clerk is getting that right
now for me. Vice Chair did you want to add anything to that comment?
COUNCIL MEETING 62 MARCH 14, 2012
Ms. Yukimura: It looks good to me. I am just wanting to
understand the 1(a), 1(b), 2(a), 2(b), I guess I do not quite understand that.
Ms. Nakamura: They all had an equal number of dots. So
some of them had four (4), some of them had three (3), so we could not really say
which one (1) was higher in priority or equal, the 1(a), 1(b).
Ms. Yukimura: I just want to say that I may have just
missed it, but I did not hear that we were really prioritizing...we were going to pick
I think five to six (5 to 6) goals and they were all going to be the goals that we
worked on, it was not like you just work on the first one (1) first or the last one (1)
last. So I guess I did not realize that the dots were to actually set up an order; I
thought the dots were basically to let the top ones float to the top. Does it mean that
1(a) is higher priority than 3(a) or 2(a) or 2(c)? I guess I am just trying to
understand what an order of priority means.
Ms. Nakamura: Maybe we did not have that conversation at
the workshop.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes. That is what I am thinking. So I did not
understand the dots to mean that we have a priority among the top goals, I just
thought they would be our top goals in different areas.
Ms. Nakamura: And typically when I facilitate, that is
usually, you know, the top goals are the ones people think are most important.
Ms. Yukimura: So I mean what if we just made a 1, 2, 3, 4, 5,
6, 7, 8, 9, whatever it is.
Ms. Nakamura: That is fine.
Ms. Yukimura: And then just say, like we say which I like,
the sequencing of subsections, it is the last line of your amendment under... it does
not reflect the order of importance, same thing with the large numbering. They are
basically our priority list, is that okay.
Ms. Nakamura:
Ms. Yukimura:
I would be fine with that.
Okay.
Chair Furfaro: Any further discussion on that item? Did you
see any of Elizabeth Kent's notes that you could share with Mr. Rapozo? You got
them?
COUNCIL MEETING 63 MARCH 14, 2012
Mr. Rapozo: Yes. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: You folks should know that those notes I
shared in advanced of the Budget with the Mayor's Office.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: So that he had some awareness of the
purpose of our workshop and those items that... and I will not use the higher dots, I
will use the term la creme de creme, that cream that floats to the top. So they did
get the copies.
Ms. Yukimura: I wonder if we could just have, just defer this
issue so that we can have a re -write of the amendment basically to reflect what we
have just talked about.
Chair Furfaro: That is fine. You are talking about deferring
it for today...
Ms. Yukimura: No, deferring it to the end of the agenda or...
Chair Furfaro: But you are going to be gone at the end of the
agenda, or at least that is what I read in your request.
Ms. Yukimura: Actually depending where we are in the
meeting, I have to choose my priorities. I would intend that this be passed by the
end of the day, and actually you probably do not need me to be here either.
Chair Furfaro: So we will come back to this item then. Is
that satisfactory to the members?
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Councilwoman Nakamura has agreed to
make the changes. Mr. Bynum did you want the floor?
Mr. Bynum: I apologize for being late. I think this
accurately reflects the way you have made these changes, and it accurately reflects
the decisions that we made. I assume that was the intention (inaudible) doing it
this way, and so I am not, excuse me, but what are you suggesting differently?
Ms. Yukimura:
Chair Furfaro:
May I explain?
You have the floor Vice Chair.
COUNCIL MEETING 64 MARCH 14, 2012
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you. I was understanding that our
goal for the workshop was to select the top goals in different areas that we as a
Council wanted to work on. And so I was puzzled by the 1(a), 1(b), 2(a), 2(b), 2(c),
and I think Councilmember Nakamura was putting them according to the
weighting of the dots. But I think what we are saying is we are not trying to say
that one (1) of the six (6) goals is more important than another of the six (6) goals;
we are saying these are all important goals for us to work on. And so to reflect that
we are just going to number them 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, or however many there are. At
the end we are going to say that one (1) goal is not more important than the other,
and neither is the sequencing of the subsection showing any priority.
Mr. Bynum: Okay I understand that.
Ms. Yukimura: Does that make sense?
Mr. Bynum: It is the way it kind of lay before the
Amendment. Councilmember Nakamura's reflects the weighting we did give that
day, and there were some surprises that day, but that does not mean all of these
goals are not important and are not all things that we are working on. But it was,
some things floated to the top, some were mid -range and some were important goals
but not as strong. Either way is fine because we are going to work on all of them,
but this does accurately reflect the weighting we did that day.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: And I would agree. Unless there is a strong
desire to re -do it, I think the weighted 1(a), 2(a), 2(b), I think that accurately depicts
the event that we had. So I am prepared to support it right now then we do not have
to come back to it if there is no opposition. I understand we are just going to be
changing the numbers, but I think like Mr. Bynum said, this is an accurate
reflection of how, and it is it really boils down to... the more of the dots was more of
a priority to the Councilmembers. More Councilmembers felt strongly about
implementation of Integrated Solid Waste Management Plan than any other item,
that is what this shows. I want to kind of keep that and preserve that because that
was the basis of having this goal setting workshop. Mr. Chair, I am prepared to
make a motion to approve the Council Goals as amended by Councilmember
Nakamura.
Ms. Yukimura: (Inaudible) motion on the floor.
Mr. Rapozo: I am making a motion to amend it.
Ms. Yukimura: No it is... did you make a motion to amend?
COUNCIL MEETING 65 MARCH 14, 2012
Chair Furfaro: So Mr. Rapozo asked for an amendment,
Mr. Bynum has now seconded that amendment, any further discussion? Vice Chair
Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: It is puzzling to me to say that the Solid
Waste Management Plan is more than the Kaua`i Bus or the provision of affordable
housing. So I just think because this is an important list, it gives guidance to us and
to the public when they read it, then it is much clearer if we just list all of our goals.
These are all of our goals, we are not going to wait for one (1) to be accomplished
before the other, and we are going to work on all of them. So, this is a goals
document, we need to show as clearly as we can what our intention is.
Chair Furfaro: Any further discussion as we have an
amendment on the floor that has been seconded. Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: I would just call for the question on the
amendment.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: I just want to say, to anyone in the public
when you hear us talking about "dots" we went through a process that is used by
many facilitators and it has validity, and it takes a group decision and it weights
priorities. I do not think this is a major issue but this amendment accurately
reflects the outcomes that we did that day. It is not to say that the Kaua`i Bus is not
important, but when we went through that process these were the priorities. We are
still going to work actively on all of these because they are important to all of us,
that is the other thing of this process that we have identified. All of these are really
important processes, but the process kind of lets some things move to the top and
this amendment accurately reflects that. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: I am going to give you the floor one (1) more
time Vice Chair and then I am going to call for the vote. Go ahead you have the
floor.
Ms. Yukimura: As I understood the process, we used the dots
to give us a rough outline of what we wanted, and then we came back as a group to
look and see if in fact because we did it without a whole lot of discussions. So then
we looked at the end result and said what is missing, for example the MRF was a
big point of discussion after we did the dots. I thought the maker of the amendment
was willing to withdraw it and make it a clearer, I mean our final decision is today.
So the question is what does it reflect? To me it reflects we have six (6) or nine (9)
goals and that is what our goals are. I mean I am not even sure why we have a
priority amongst those goals. We had priorities amongst all the other things that
came up, but this is what we in the end put together. So I am surprised, I thought
we had something we could all live within our discussion.
Chair Furfaro: Well we have a motion on the floor to amend.
I would like to call for the vote on the amendment, and I would like to do it by roll
call so it is very clear the first time around.
COUNCIL MEETING 66 MARCH 14, 2012
The motion to amend as circulated was then put, and carried by the following
vote:
FOR AMENDMENT: Bynum, Chang, Kuali`i, Nakamura, Rapozo,
Furfaro
AGAINST AMENDMENT: Yukimura
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING:
Chair Furfaro: Now we need to go to the main item. We
have had a motion to approve, we have had some dialogue on that, I will recognize
Mr. Bynum for discussion on the main motion as amended.
Mr. Bynum: There are important goals in the County that
are not on this list that does not mean that we are not going to pay attention to
those and work on them. But we went through a process that helped align the ones
that clearly were a high priority to this Council that includes every one of these on
this list and there are other goals that are not on this list that are important
priorities as well. This gives us a good sense, and it was a great day and I
appreciated it, it gave us a good sense of where we had consensus not on specific
measures to fix these things but on saying these are important priorities. So I think
it was a good process. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Vice Chair Yukimura.
TOTAL — 6,
TOTAL — 1,
TOTAL — 0.
Ms. Yukimura: I think it was a very good and important
process, and I think we did come up with our major goals. I will be voting for this
because they do reflect our major goals.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: I want to thank Councilmember Nakamura
for putting them in this order because I believe it is important that we keep it in the
order that it was prioritized. Some of these things I may not agree with the order
but that is how it fell, that is how the dots fell. I think it is quite clear that the
implementation of the Solid Waste Management Plan maybe to some
Councilmembers is not as important as increasing the Bus Transportation, but I
think...that is why it is important to keep it like this, because when we re -visit this
or if a subsequent Council re- visits this, they will understand that in 2012 or 2011
the Council at that time collectively, not individually, believed that the
implementation of the Solid Waste Management Plan was of the highest priority. I
am not going to say that is not true. Obviously if you count the dots that item was
more important to more Councilmembers than others, that is the way it fell, you
may not agree, Councilmember Yukimura, but I think we have to honor the process.
I think this set -up, this system that Councilmember Nakamura put together, three
(3) months from now, six (6) months from now when I review this, I will know
exactly how the Councilmembers felt collectively as a body when we set -up our
goals. So I appreciate that and obviously I will be supporting it. Thank you.
Ms. Nakamura: I just want to thank Chair Furfaro for
allowing this process to take place, because from what I understand it does not
always happen. And I want to thank Councilmember Yukimura who was
instrumental in setting up the logistics of that event. So thank you very much both
of you.
COUNCIL MEETING 67 MARCH 14, 2012
Chair Furfaro: Further dialog from Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: Just one (1) point of clarification. I always
like to say this when I can, I agree with Mel. But I think the reason there is 1(a),
1(b), is that those were equal priorities right? So thank you.
Mr. Chang: Thank you Chairman. I just wanted to make
a little bit of an explanation /clarification. I think for the benefit of those that are in
our audience in our Chambers and those that are at home watching, when we make
referral to "dot" it almost seems like we are making referral to dot like a dot. But I
just wanted to make the public know that we were given out color -coded dots that
we placed on what we thought was important, so that would be the definition of the
"dots" that that is how we got the majority or how we were able to get our count; we
placed color -coded dots as far as the priorities are concerned. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: My closing comments again I would like to
thank Councilmember Nakamura and I do think that we scheduled a workshop for
us so that through back and forth communication we could find things that we can
all reach agreement on, not necessarily as the orders of priorities because there are
many variables that come with those sources. Funding for fuel for the bus obviously
also has to compare funding for things that we need to do with Solid Waste, but
most importantly for the body we negotiated on the merits of what we need to do in
our community. I compliment all of you, but with that I would like to call a role call
vote on this one (1) as well please.
The motion to approve as amended was then put, and carried by the following vote:
FOR APPROVAL: Bynum, Chang, Kuali`i, Nakamura, Rapozo,
Yukimura, Furfaro
AGAINST APPROVAL:
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING:
TOTAL — 7,
TOTAL — 0,
TOTAL — 0.
Chair Furfaro: It was important for us to have the ultimate
agreement by all seven (7) on the issues that we agreed on for goals so there is no
confusion. On that I believe the Prosecutor is here, I want to get to that item now, if
you could read that item please.
C 2012 -76 Communication (02/23/2012) from the Prosecuting Attorney,
requesting Council approval to expend Office of Prosecuting Attorney (OPA)
Regular Salary Funds to hire a Law Office Assistant: Mr. Rapozo moved to approve
C 2012 -76, seconded by Mr. Kuali`i.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. There is a motion to approve and
second, the rules are suspended and we have the Prosecutor with us. Shay, you
have the floor.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
SHAYLENE ISERI - CARVALHO, PROSECUTING ATTORNEY: Thank you.
We had made this request at this time instead of waiting until the new budget
COUNCIL MEETING 68 MARCH 14, 2012
simply because we have a... Shaylene Iseri - Carvalho, Prosecuting Attorney, County
of Kaua`i.
The reason why we submitted this request at this time is because we do have
an extensive murder trial that is beginning on May 14 that involves almost forty
(40) witnesses, multiple witnesses from the mainland, we also expect to take at
least two (2) months in trial. Because it's before the next budget this is the reason
for our request.
The Victim Witness Section of this position really is only twenty percent
(20 %) and that involves victim witness contact, the rest of them is trial preparation,
and so we have probably a couple hundred exhibits that this Law Office Assistant
will be responsible for, also preparing whatever documents that would be necessary,
motions to suppress, motions to dismiss, motions in limine, motions to prohibit
certain witnesses from testifying. There's a slew of work that needs to be done just
for that trial and so this is the reason why we're requesting this because the Law
Office Assistant entails a much broader opportunity; they serve subpoenas, they set
up witness interviews, they're present during the witness interviews, they prepare
documents, they also provide the liaison between setting up the police officers in
meeting with the witnesses. That in a nutshell is the position description for the
Law Office Assistant.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Currently your office has two (2)
administrative people out on leave, is that correct?
Ms. Iseri - Carvalho We have an Administrative Officer on leave,
not on leave, we have not been able to resolve the issue with respect to the issues
that were raised regarding the reallocation of the Administrative Officer.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. And then you have another one that is
out on funeral leave?
Ms. Iseri - Carvalho: Victim witness, we have two (2) people on
leave for various reasons.
Chair Furfaro: But one (1) is funeral leave?
Ms. Iseri - Carvalho• No. One person went out on medical leave
and was expected to return next week, but we have been informed that a member of
her family passed away, and so it is in all likelihood not going to be returning but
we don't have any leave subsequent from the last three (3) months; three (3) months
she has been out.
COUNCIL MEETING 69 MARCH 14, 2012
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Members questions at this point
because I had erred here, we have a 2:30 p.m. certificate to give out and perhaps I
can hold questions, we can do the certificate. Shay, would you have a problem with
that?
Ms. Iseri - Carvalho: Well we do have pretrial conferences today
on a major sex assault case, but at what time do you expect...
Chair Furfaro: Well, this is Councilwoman Yukimura's
certificate and we had scheduled it for 2:30 p.m.
Ms. Yukimura: I know we also have the Koloa piece at 2:30
p.m. too.
Chair Furfaro: Yes, it is called the...
Ms. Yukimura: When is your conference set -up? Can you
come...
Ms. Iseri - Carvalho: It is at 3:00 p.m.
Ms. Yukimura: At 4:00 p.m.?
Chair Furfaro: She said at 3:00 p.m.
Ms. Iseri-Carvalho: But I have other appointments after 4:30
p.m. so I will be willing to wait, because this agenda item is very crucial for the
operations of our office and I'm going to be gone.
Chair Furfaro: Well let's see. Let's go through your piece
and I'm going to ask the indulgence of the receivers of the certificate to give us some
time to conduct business. Members, do you have questions for the Prosecutor's
Office? Mr. Bynum.
Ms. Iseri - Carvalho: I would state at this time that there is a
pending criminal case that our office is handling with Mr. Bynum and we definitely
are unable to speak with Mr. Bynum because he is represented by counsel. I also
believe there is a conflict in him asking questions of our office in light of the fact
that there is a pending criminal case against Mr. Bynum by our office. So I will not
be entertaining any questions for fear of violating the Code of Ethics and our
attorney- client responsibility.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Thank you for that feedback.
Mr. Bynum.
COUNCIL MEETING 70 MARCH 14, 2012
Mr. Bynum: I have asked staff to distribute the findings
of the Ethics Commission that I requested to be available for today just in case that
this, excuse me? I just want to state for the record, last time, I have concerns about
this item, I have concerns about the Victim Witness Program. I have been precluded
from asking those questions for almost three (3) years. When a Victim Witness item
was before this Council a few weeks ago, the Prosecutor made the same assertion
that I was somehow conflicted. I have subsequently gone to the Board of Ethics and
asked for an advisory opinion which I have available here to circulate. The short
version is they say I do not have a conflict of interest and that I can continue to do
my job as a Councilmember even related to the Office of the Prosecuting Attorney.
So I'd like to have that opinion circulated to all of you and to the Prosecutor and
anyone else who is interested and I would like to be able to ask some questions.
Ms. Iseri - Carvalho:
Chair Furfaro:
Ms. Yukimura:
Ms. Iseri - Carvalho:
Ms. Yukimura:
Ms. Iseri - Carvalho: Sure.
If I could answer that Mr. Chair?
Yes, I will recognize you.
Ms. Iseri - Carvalho: It is not the Board of Ethics; it has to do with
the fact that you are represented by an attorney and we are prohibited from
speaking with any defendant without the permission of...
It does not apply.
Excuse me, Ms. Yukimura?
It does not apply.
Ms. Iseri - Carvalho: It does. If you put in writing that you are
waiving that, I do not have a problem, but we do need something in writing that
says that you are allowing me the Prosecutor to speak with you who is represented
by an attorney in a criminal case that we have pending against you.
Mr. Bynum: I have no intention in discussing the
criminal case that is pending before you. I have intention to speak about this
agenda item and Victim Witness.
Chair Furfaro: I heard your plea and I would like to keep
the floor until I recognize you. I'm no longer recognizing the Prosecuting Attorney
but I would like to find out who is the County Attorney on duty at the moment. May
I ask you to excuse yourself ladies for a moment so I can have the County Attorney
up.
COUNCIL MEETING 71 MARCH 14, 2012
Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much. If you recall the last
time on Mr. Bynum's own initiative he excused himself from participating and he
has seeked an opinion on this challenge which you have just heard. Can you give
this body any guidance on that or have you seen this opinion from the Ethics
Committee?
MONA CLARK, DEPUTY COUNTY ATTORNEY: Yes I have. The opinion
was...first of all I'm Mona Clark, Deputy County Attorney. The opinion stated that
there was no conflict as a result of the misdemeanor charges against Mr. Bynum
that have been filed by the Prosecutor's Office and that he could participate in all
agenda items concerning the Prosecutor's Office that came before this body.
Chair Furfaro: Would you say at this particular point that
follows within the legal parameters of what is expected of members of an office of
the County in fact as Mr. Bynum is pointing out, when he is also as being pointed
out by the Prosecutor's Office kind of in this area of no discussion no delegation. Is
there something? I went to hotel school, so when I got myself in trouble I asked an
attorney, now I am asking you - are there any other possible conflicts that we
should be aware of?
Ms. Clark: I am not aware of any conflict that prevents
Mr. Bynum from asking questions.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: Mona, I have read the opinion and the
opinion surrounds three (3) items: whether Mr. Bynum could participate in a budget
hearing, if he was precluded from participating in a Council's budget hearings
relating to the funding, or whether he could vote on the budget, and the third was
whether he could participate in and vote on matters. What I heard from the
Prosecutor was not any of that, not that he has got a conflict and should be recused
from the discussion and the vote, what I heard was there is some sort of rule that a
criminal attorney cannot discuss or cannot talk to a defendant without a waiver. I
think she asked for a waiver. This opinion does not cover and does not talk about
the fact about the discussions between the two (2). Would you agree that a waiver
would be the best way? A waiver of that prohibition of an attorney talking to a
defendant? This does not cover that, this covers his...
Ms. Clark: No that...
Mr. Rapozo: Right so this does not have no bearing or
relativity on question and answer; that is a separate issue that had not gone to the
Board of Ethics. I think that, I am not sure, I do not know, like the Chair said I did
COUNCIL MEETING 72 MARCH 14, 2012
not go to law school but I know what I heard and I heard the Prosecutor say if
Mr. Bynum was willing to write and sign a waiver in writing then there would be no
problem. I am not sure...I mean if the Prosecutor is not going to answer the
question that is her prerogative.
Ms. Clark:
Prosecutor can do.
Right. I am not speaking to what the
Mr. Rapozo: What I am asking, are you aware of that
requirement that the Prosecutor or any criminal attorney cannot...
Ms. Clark: Your professional ethics would prevent you
from speaking with somebody concerning a matter that was before you in a criminal
case with the defendant.
Mr. Rapozo: Right and I only speak because of my
experience as an investigator that if in fact a defendant had an attorney we were
not allowed at all to, regarding whether it is about a football game, or basketball
game, could not do it until we spoke to the attorney. I am ju,is that accurate?
Chair Furfaro: On that note, I would like to take a recess.
We are going to take a ten (10) minute recess.
There being no objections the meeting recessed at 2:38 p.m.
The meeting was reconvened at 2:49 p.m. and proceeded as follows:
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
AMY ESAKI, FIRST DEPUTY COUNTY ATTORNEY: Amy Esaki, First
Deputy County Attorney. The question that I heard Councilmember Bynum asking
was whether he could ask questions related to the item on the agenda. I believe the
item on the agenda is a communication from the Prosecuting Attorney requesting
Council approval to expend Office of the Prosecuting Attorney regular salary funds
to hire a Law Office Assistant. With that in mind, because it is directly related to
the hiring of a Law Office Assistant under Rule 4.2 of the Hawai`i Rules of
Professional Conduct, he is able to ask questions relating to that specific topic.
Mr. Rapozo: Can you read 4.2?
Ms. Esaki: Sure. 4.2 states, in representing a client, a
lawyer shall not communicate about the subject of the representation with a person
the lawyer knows to be represented by another lawyer in the matter unless a lawyer
has a consent of the other lawyer or is authorized by law to do so. In this case, the
COUNCIL MEETING 73 MARCH 14, 2012
subject matter is not Mr. Bynum's case before the courts. This matter is about the
hiring of a Law Office Assistant. So as long as the questions are related to that, he
may ask the questions.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Any other questions to the County Attorney's
Office at this point in time? None. Prosecutor's Office.
Ms. Iseri-Carvalho: Yes, Council Chair, I did speak with the
County Attorney. As you recall, the items that Mr. Bynum said he was going to talk
about was dealing with the Victim Witness Program which is not an agenda item
which violates sunshine laws, which is what I told the County Attorney. She
informed me that he is strictly to talk about the Law Office Assistant position and
that is it.
Chair Furfaro: Okay.
Ms. Iseri - Carvalho: And anyone else, I mean anyone else.
Chair Furfaro: I take in consideration your comments and
the comments back from the County Attorney, but I do want to point out my
position. After hearing this interpretation, it is my preference to look for a motion to
schedule this as a special agenda item in the full Council next week Tuesday at
8:30 a.m. The rationale of course is having this statement read to us accordingly.
This also may settle some temperament that might exist here for the week and then
we will move forward on this item.
Ms. Iseri - Carvalho: Yes, but I need to check my calendar because
I am on O`ahu Monday and Tuesday.
Chair Furfaro: We can post it at a later time in the morning
on Wednesday if you like because it will be a Special Council Meeting. If 1:00 p.m.
in the afternoon works better for you I will recess the Committee Meeting and post
a specific time for you.
Ms. Iseri - Carvalho: Okay. Let me check my calendar.
Chair Furfaro: Yes.
Ms. Iseri-Carvalho: I have a sentencing on a sex assault
at 2:00 p.m. and a fraud presentation at 10:00 a.m., so I don't know how long the
sentencing on the sex assault case is going to be.
COUNCIL MEETING 74 MARCH 14, 2012
work?
Chair Furfaro: So my original offer of 8:30 a.m. would that
Ms. Iseri - Carvalho: No, we need to drive out to do the senior
fraud presentation. Would it be possible to be 8:00 a.m. to allow for questions?
Chair Furfaro: Yes, we could do that.
Ms. Iseri- Carvalho: Okay, that would probably, I would have an
hour and a half and then half an hour to drive out for my presentation.
Chair Furfaro: Okay.
Ms. Iseri - Carvalho: Okay.
Chair Furfaro: So that will be a week from today, 8:00 a.m. I
will schedule a Special Council Meeting for your office.
Ms. Iseri - Carvalho: And it is on March 21, just to clarify?
Chair Furfaro: Yes.
Ms. Iseri - Carvalho: Perfect. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Thank you both. Members I
think you understand what the Chair is asking I am asking for a deferral for one (1)
week to an 8:00 a.m. conversation on this subject matter.
The meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows:
Mr. Bynum: I would like to have the floor.
Chair Furfaro: There is no discussion, there is a motion and
a second for deferral. Mr. Bynum when you stepped out of the room I had felt in a
best interest of the body as we go through these legal questions that a one (1) week
deferral was reasonable and the Prosecuting Attorney Office has agreed to 8:00 a.m.
next week Wednesday for us to continue on this item.
Mr. Bynum: The Prosecuting Attorney also made
statements here on the record on this agenda item that I would like to address.
Chair Furfaro: Okay I am sorry, we have a motion and a
second, you will have an opportunity next week Wednesday.
COUNCIL MEETING 75 MARCH 14, 2012
Mr. Kuali`i moved to defer C 2012 -76 to a Special Council Meeting on
March 21, 2012, at 8:00 a.m., seconded by Ms. Nakamura, and carried by a
vote of 5:2 (Mr. Bynum and Ms. Yukimura voting no.).
The meeting recessed at 2:54 p.m., reconvened at 3:24 p.m., and proceeded as
follows:
Chair Furfaro: We are back from our recognition from
Kaua`i High School girls team, and before I go any further I would like to have a
moment of personal privilege. I just came across Kaua`i Business Magazine which
identified twenty (20) individuals for the next twenty (20) years: Hawai`i People To
Watch, and to my surprise, my pleasant surprise, I open up and one (1) of the
twenty (20) to watch in the next twenty (20) years includes Mauna Kea Trask from
our own County Attorney's Office. So I just wanted to share that with everyone,
quite a nice compliment for the young man that works in our County Attorney
Office.
If I could ask if we could have the representative from Grove Farm up. David,
it is my intent now to have an opportunity to have members to pose some questions
to you as it relates to this resolution, and so members, I would like to remind us if
we have many questions if we could rotate it amongst members because some
members might have the same thing on their mind at this moment. So Mr. Chang, I
see your hand closest to the blue button, does that mean you want to speak? You
have the floor.
Mr. Chang: Thank you. Mr. Hinazumi, just because we
took a couple of breaks from lunch and you might just want to state your name for
the record again.
DAVID HINAZUMI, PROJECT MANAGER, GROVE FARM: David
Hinazumi.
Mr. Chang: I was going to, I think it might have been
Mrs. Kuala that brought it up a little earlier that if it was a situation that the
residents just said okay we are out, we heeded our notice and we are out, what is
the process? Are there permits that need to be taken care of? You probably heard
the testimonies like let us say for example they went out, .it would take months and
months, the word was used it would be premature that maybe people are out, but
yet we are still standing by. What is the process that you are going through right
now? And again what if nobody was there, in a perfect world what would happen
right now?
COUNCIL MEETING 76 MARCH 14, 2012
Mr. Hinazumi: We would apply for our Class 3 Zoning
Permit, it is handled administratively through the Planning Department, and we
will submit our application and they have forty -five (45) days to review.
Mr. Chang: So do you anticipate any snags or any
problems in that forty -five (45) days process?
Mr. Hinazumi: Well it will go through several reviews,
various agencies will review it, and I do not want to be too presumptuous but we
feel that we will be able to get it within that timeline.
Mr. Chang: Okay. And just to have some clarification,
refresh my mind or to inform the public, this area was zoned residential in the early
1970's?
Mr. Hinazumi: Yes.
Mr. Chang: Okay I think that will be it for now, I just
wanted to get a little bit of clarification. Thank you, thank you Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Any members have questions at
this time? Vice Chair Yukimura you have the floor.
Ms. Yukimura: Do you see, David, that the only way to
provide the kind of housing you want to provide is by developing this parcel?
Mr. Hinazumi: Well in the K61oa area as I was explaining
before, Waikomo, Wailaau, Wailani Road areas have transitioned from the camps to
houses that people are in today and this is a natural progression getting into the
K6loa Camp area which is in the State's Urban District /County General Plan. We
want to follow the appropriate zoning and develop homes in there that the tenants
and greater community can live in.
Ms. Yukimura: So if you could do that both, you could have
that remain a residential area, accommodate the tenants who live there now with a
few others, and then also have fifty (50) houses in that parcel across the bypass
road, would not be achieving Grove Farm's objectives?
Mr. Hinazumi: That is a possibility but number one (1), as
for the existing site, the homes are unfortunately susceptible to flooding, they are
old, they need to be brought up to today's safety codes, electrical, plumbing...this is
like I said the appropriate area closest to the town core. This Council has been great
on being proponents of smart growth, you can bike and walk to the town core area,
adjacent there is another commercial area that will provide a pedestrian access to...
COUNCIL MEETING 77 MARCH 14, 2012
and talking about going to another parcel that is zoned Agriculture, we would prefer
not to develop the agricultural land.
Ms. Yukimura: I mean if you were to take care of the tenants
you would be doing everything you are talking about on that land. You would be
figuring out how to restore the houses, how to improve the electrical, not only the
things that a landlord should do but also develop it for ownership or for some form
of ownership. So nobody is talking about not doing it there but we are talking about
doing it for the people that already live there as well as for others.
Mr. Hinazumi: Like I said, for people that have been out
there, the existing homes are scattered here and there. Like I mentioned, they are
below the flood elevation level currently, it is all on cesspools so we will need to get
that converted to septic systems, we have to do some grading work to get the homes
up to the appropriate levels, and by doing the development we are providing new
housing to replace the homes...
Ms. Yukimura: So yes, nobody is arguing against that, but
we are just wondering why you cannot include the tenants in the plan.
Mr. Hinazumi: We are asking everyone to make alternative
housing arrangements for the interim period until we can get the project completed.
Ideally, like I said earlier, right now everyone is a renter, we want to turn everyone
into a homeowner because of the benefits you own being able to transfer that
property on and building up your equity.
Ms. Yukimura: Well that is all wonderful and there are some
people who may have to rent, so why is that not also an option?
Mr. Hinazumi: Renting as is or renting in the future
development?
Ms. Yukimura: It is open. The only thing we are talking
about is sitting down and talking about what kind of options and what the problems
might be with certain options versus not. That is where the housing agency might
be able to help develop some rentals, who knows. Nobody is, I do not think that is
resolution for sure, and I as one (1) of the co- authors of the resolution am not saying
it has to be done this way, we are just saying could you please be willing to sit down
and think out of the box and see how you can include everyone in the solution.
Mr. Hinazumi: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: So how many of the houses will be
$220,000.00 of the fifty (50) that you are planning?
COUNCIL MEETING 78 MARCH 14, 2012
Mr. Hinazumi: Basically in general we will comply with the
County Housing Policy and there is a breakdown of so many need to be below the
eighty percent (80 %) group and so forth and so on. As of right, now all that is is a
limit saying for so many homes it can be priced no higher than a certain amount, it
will be a case -by -case basis as we work with individuals who want to purchase. That
is part of why we have asked everyone please go see the Housing Agency, get
homebuyer ready, see what programs they have, and they need to be income
qualified...
Ms. Yukimura: But they may not be with the prices you are
talking about, so then what are you going to do?
Mr. Hinazumi: Like I said, we are open to discussing it, but
we need to know where everyone is at.
Ms. Yukimura: Well if you have a plan, what is your plan for
how? I am presuming $220,000.00 is your lowest?
Mr. Hinazumi: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: Alright. So how many units are going to be
$220,000.00? What is your plan?
Mr. Hinazumi: It is hard to answer right now because you
have an affordable housing agreement that we work out and it gives you guidelines,
and like I said, there is so many for this group, so many for this income group, and I
am sorry I cannot answer your question right now...
Ms. Yukimura: How many are going to be for less than
eighty percent (80 %) if that is one (1) of the requirements?
Mr. Hinazumi: Well we are going to follow what the Housing
Policy says...
Ms. Yukimura: What does it say?
Mr. Hinazumi: Like I said, we need to take it on a
case -by -case basis as people come in.
Ms. Yukimura: No, it is not a case -by -case basis. How are
you going to show us that you are meeting the Housing Guidelines if you do not
have a plan to say how many will be affordable to what income level.
COUNCIL MEETING 79 MARCH 14, 2012
Mr. Hinazumi: And I am sorry, maybe I am not
understanding your question correctly but that is why we are going to have an
affordable housing agreement that we get completed...
Ms. Yukimura: Okay well you do not have one (1) so there is
nothing tied right now and there is no Class 4 Zoning Permit for a public hearing or
for people to speak about it, so where is there any oversight as to whether it is
actually meeting the needs of the community?
Mr. Hinazumi: Well when we go through...
Ms. Yukimura: Or how many of the tenants can fit? How do
we know? I mean I am not saying just leave them to the zoning requirements, we
are saying show us how you are going to actually incorporate them into your
development if that is what you say you are going to do and some of your Executives
have said that, but we want to know how.
Mr. Hinazumi: And that is why we need everyone to come in
and either see us directly, see the Housing Agency, we need more background on
everyone as well.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay I am not getting the answers. I have
other questions but I would like others to speak, Mr. Chair.
Chair Furfaro: David, I want to make sure I understood
your last comment. So if we were going to have a graphic of the eight (8)
homeowners or the eight (8) occupants that are there now, and we were going to use
the HUD Schedule, or modify the HUD Schedule whether it was for ownership or
rent, you need them to come in to give you that financial information? Is that what
you are saying?
Mr. Hinazumi: Yes. As a developer when we provide
affordable housing we need to have the buyers get screened and income qualified.
So the first step that we have been advised is we will need to come up with an
application and have people fill out that information, and then the Housing Agency
is going to double check that information to verify that they are properly income
qualified, and then they can purchase one (1) of the homes within that income
range.
Chair Furfaro: So that is why you are encouraging people to
come in?
Mr. Hinazumi: Yes.
COUNCIL MEETING 80 MARCH 14, 2012
Chair Furfaro: I will ask this question before I recognize
Mr. Bynum next. I guess it is the eastern parcel people are talking about as being
another option. Do you know that that ag parcel has still not gone through the one
(1) time subdivision ordinance when they put the road through?
Mr. Hinazumi: That is a good question. I will have to do
more research on that. But basically the tax map parcel, like it has been said, it is
twenty -four (24) acres total.
Chair Furfaro: And it is one (1) tax key?
Mr. Hinazumi: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: So when the road went through, did that
count as subdividing that property?
Mr. Hinazumi: So when we dedicated the land we donated
the land to the County to do the bypass road. So when we did that, I guess a term
you can kind of use is de facto subdivision where it carved it out.
Chair Furfaro: We really do not know the answer?
Mr. Hinazumi: We do not know the answer right now.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Mr. Bynum you have the floor.
Mr. Bynum: I just want to follow -up on what JoAnn was
asking about the housing policy. Actually that is the only thing I have right now are
two (2) questions are interfaced with the Housing Agency. My memory of the
Housing Policy would require eight (8) affordable units under the policy, two (2) of
which would be eighty percent (80 %) below, two (2) — 80% to 100 %, two (2) — 100%
to 120 %, two (2) — 100% to 140 %, percent of median income brackets. Does that
sound accurate to you?
Mr. Hinazumi: Roughly. The requirement is thirty percent
(30 %) of your total project, and then basically just as you were saying, I believe it is
a 20 %, 30 %, 20% breakdown.
Mr. Bynum: And I would really like to, I saw Housing
here earlier but I was hoping...because it is the thirty percent (30 %) that is the
basic, but then there are provisions to go as low as fifteen percent (15 %), and I
believe you probably qualify for those...
Mr. Hinazumi: That is correct.
COUNCIL MEETING 81 MARCH 14, 2012
Mr. Bynum: Integrated and single - family residential, and
so I think if I am reaching back a few years, but I think the answer would be eight
(8) units have to be priced affordable under the policy, two (2) of which have to be
affordable by eighty percent (80 %) and below median income. And so I think the
answer when saying how many at $220,000.00, I think it is two (2), that is the
requirement.
Mr. Hinazumi: And you are right that is the requirement,
that does not mean we could not do...
Mr. Bynum: More?
Mr. Hinazumi: Yes. As we work with the Housing Agency
and develop our affordable housing agreement, as we go out to sell the units, and
that is why I am sorry I cannot answer definitively today this is how many units we
are going to have. That is why I am saying on a case -by -case basis; if it worked out
that we did more at a lower income group, fantastic.
Mr. Bynum: Right. And I am sure the Housing
Agency...you have to do two (2) at eighty percent (80 %) or below, you have to do two
(2) at 80% to 100 %. I am sure if you wanted to do those two (2) at below eighty
percent (80 %) they would be happy about and allow you to count those as meeting
the requirement. And then the other question, I heard testimony today about we are
going to work with this tenant to get them at Paanau, or we are going to work with
this tenant, but under the Housing Agency Rules I do not know if you can go to the
front of the line, that is another question I would have for Housing because that
might be a solution, but what about those people who have met all of the criteria
and are on the waiting list? I mean if you are next and you have been waiting and
you say, I just want to make those comments.
Mr. Hinazumi: And then just to follow -up on what you
mentioned about Pa`anau, Pa'anau Village Phase 2 which is going to be coming up,
there is fifty (50) units. We were contacted by the Housing Agency and they told us
that there are applications available. At that time they only had twenty (20)
applicants, and it is a fifty (50) unit project, and the deadline is March 23, so to
apply that is going to need to happen. And like I said, last count when I received it
last week was twenty (20) applicants.
Mr. Bynum: Thank you for that answer. I mean that was
my concern that we have to meet the criteria that the County has for access to those
units, and if we can do that, great.
COUNCIL MEETING 82 MARCH 14, 2012
Chair Furfaro: David, just so you know (inaudible).
Members any more questions of David? Councilmember Nakamura.
Ms. Nakamura: Hi David. I had a question about the
discussions that Grove Farm has had with Peter Savio. I was wondering what was
the proposal and what was Grove Farm's reaction to that proposal?
Mr. Hinazumi: Like any offer, we need to review it and do
our diligence. Basic gist of it was that the existing tenants would purchase it for
appraised value, that they would have to come up with the money to purchase at
appraised value and then after that the homes would get fixed up and it will be sold
to them at cost. So there were existing tenants that would remain there, and then
after that some vacant lots would be created and then sold off.
Ms. Nakamura: And what was Grove Farm's reaction to that
proposal?
Mr. Hinazumi: You know we reviewed it and we felt that our
plan, especially our marketing plan like I said to focus on the tenants and their
families and the surrounding community, we had the best control to sell it to local
folks, Koloa or outside of Koloa, so they can return home. Our finished product is
going to be house and lot. One (1) thing we have learned is that you can sell a
houselot but what happens after that is not that easy to build your home going with
a single person getting their own private contractor doing it and then on top of that
you need to furnish the home and put in all of your cabinets and whatnot. And so
we could produce a turnkey product that people could sell, they purchase it, and
they can move in.
Ms. Yukimura: So you say that the tenants are at the top of
your priority list, but what if they cannot afford your prices?
Mr. Hinazumi: We need to keep all of our options open. We
have also asked everyone not to just check in with the Housing Agency but
Hawaiian Community Assets, like I mentioned they provide the home ownership
classes for the County. The Community Services Specialist Desiree Vea, she has
been great, she came out and talked at the January community meeting, shared a
story about helping a single mother with two (2) kids maybe, one (1) of them
disabled, helping her purchase a $395,000.00 house and pay a little under $800.00 a
month. Now she is the, and those agencies are the forefront of knowing what is
available, what can help people enough to purchase a home.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay well I do not understand the attitude
because what I am looking for is you folks making sure, working with...I do not
agree with the idea that you go and see if the Housing Agency can help, see if
COUNCIL MEETING 83 MARCH 14, 2012
Hawaiian Community Assets can help you, without actually working with a tenant
to figure out a solution to their situation. Otherwise, it is just you are on your own
basically.
Mr. Hinazumi: And like I said, we brought Hawaiian
Community Assets and they are contacting tenants directly.
Ms. Yukimura: I know, but that is good, but still have you
worked it so that the numbers can work...working with Hawaiian Community
Assets so you can actually close a deal with that family?
Mr. Hinazumi: And unfortunately we are not at that point
yet, because she will need to meet with each of the tenants, find out their specific
circumstances, and then we can help.
Ms. Yukimura: But you can say that there will be a price
that you will make it work for them?
Mr. Hinazumi: We will do our best.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Is Grove Farm willing to look at other
alternatives than just evicting people and then building the development that you
want, the fifty (50) units there? Are you willing to look at alternatives?
Mr. Hinazumi: Well we have, there have been some
alternatives that have been mentioned. We considered those and we feel that
moving forward to provide homes up to fifty (50) families, the housing study that
just came out that was in front of this Council indicates great need especially...
Ms. Yukimura: Nobody is arguing with that, so the proposals
would have to meet your needs as well which is the goal of providing fifty (50)
single - family units, so that would be part of the plan. So do you have a problem with
looking at those alternatives, that being open and flexible to some other
arrangements that might allow you to do that?
Mr. Hinazumi: And we have been open to listen and we will
continue to listen to, as you say, alternative arrangements.
Ms. Yukimura: That does not sound like it if you are just
going to proceed with your Class 3 Zoning Permit.
Chair Furfaro: Well I guess you got his answer right now,
Vice Chair, and if I understand him, you are waiting for these people to come in for
you to figure out how their schedules might fix the opportunity for them to acquire,
COUNCIL MEETING 84 MARCH 14, 2012
whether it is for purchase or for rent. They have to actually come in and have some
discussion with you?
Mr. Hinazumi: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: And what I think the tenants are looking for
is some kind of assurance that whatever you are talking about as a solution for
them is actually going to work to the extent that they also feel that their needs are
being met. A win -win means that you win because you say you are winning, in this
whatever arrangement is worked on, and the tenants feel that they are winning
because it meets their needs as well. I mean it is not somebody saying well you are
winning by my standards of what I think you should be winning, it is really meeting
each other's needs. So that is what this resolution is asking for, are you willing to
sit down and I mean I think the reason why Peter Savio looked interesting was
because he is a for - profit developer with a longtime history that has come up with
very creative solutions for affordable housing. So it does not have to be him, but you
are going to need some really creative thinking out of the box. If time is an issue, if
money is an issue, I mean time is an issue because time is money, if there is a
concerted effort on the part of the County and the community not to give you any
guarantees but to say we will work with you within the structures of the law and
within our responsibilities for due diligence, but we will work with you to make it
happen as fast as we can and to make sure that you get what you need, why would
you not be willing to sit down and see what those other possibilities might be?
Mr. Hinazumi: And we are willing to see all possibilities.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay then if you are truly willing then you
will remove the eviction deadlines right now and sit down at the table with the
County and the tenants and try to see what kind of solutions you might create
together.
Chair Furfaro: Give me two (2) seconds here please.
Members, I want to remind you, if you are posing a question please give the
individual time to finish the answer before you apply another question. That is the
right way for us to do this with respect and aloha, so let us try to follow that rule.
Let me see if Councilmember Yukimura will release the floor to you, Mr. Rapozo.
Ms. Yukimura: As soon as I get my question answered.
Mr. Rapozo: Well I have a point of order I guess, and let
me just do it that way because I think the last statement that was made is very
troubling to me. I would ask the County Attorney, if she is here, that last statement
where if you are willing then you will pull out your eviction notices right now. I
COUNCIL MEETING 85 MARCH 14, 2012
think and I just want to ask the County Attorney, I mean if that is fine then let us
move on, but I am beginning to feel like...
Chair Furfaro: David, would you give up your seat for a
moment, and in our process this is a question that has been proposed as a point of
order.
Mr. Rapozo: Only because I am trying to save this County
some money in a future lawsuit and I think everybody got the testimony.
Chair Furfaro: I do plan to call up the County Attorney
later, but Mr. Rapozo, pose your question.
Mr. Rapozo: I think you heard the discussion.
Ms. Clark: If the question is is it inappropriate to ask
the question, I do not think it is inappropriate to ask the question. To mandate that
some interference with the leasehold relationship, then you get into other issues.
Mr. Rapozo: It was not a question, that was not a
question, it was a comment that said if in fact...
Ms. Yukimura:
Chair Furfaro:
No, it was a question.
Excuse me, Mr. Rapozo has the floor.
Mr. Rapozo: It was if in fact Grove Farm feels that way
then they will pull their eviction notices now, that is what was said. I am worried
about the perception from Grove Farm. I am worried because of the case law that I
have here, and I think we all do. I am worried that we will get sued. I think we can
refrain from those kinds of comments and stick to the resolution item and we will be
okay. But I am starting to feel like there is what I think is legally called a veiled
threat I think is what, as I am reading and educating myself on the case law I am
getting concerned with that term veiled threat that may result in a lawsuit and I do
not want to be a part of that. Maybe you can address the veiled threat, and if it is
appropriate, Mona, go ahead and that is fine.
Ms. Clark: I do not think that we need to limit the
discussion that occurs, but I think that any action that is taken by this body should
not seek to interfere in the private contracts or relationships between the parties. I
mean obviously a lease is between two (2) private parties, you have the State
landlord- tenant law that sets out certain parameters, you have the contracts clause
of the United States Constitution which does not allow the government to come in
as in HRPT versus Lingle and set out a law that targets a particular landlord and
COUNCIL MEETING 86 MARCH 14, 2012
sets the parameters what has to be in that landlord's leases, then you get into
trouble with enacting an invalid law. So obviously that is not a road that the County
wants to go down.
Mr. Rapozo: I agree.
Ms. Clark: I think you have a different issue as far as a
resolution which is suggesting that certain things take place but does not mandate
anything. I think you would want to avoid any implication that you are going to use
zoning laws to achieve an effect other than what they are intended for. And so I
would say that it is a caution. If you want me to go on with my other comments I
would do that now, or if you want to go back to the other question?
Chair Furfaro: I am going to let Councilwoman Yukimura
still have the floor. You have been most helpful in clarifying the point of order that
Mr. Rapozo raised. Thank you very much. Vice Chair you still have the floor.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you. So my question is are you willing
to, if you are really willing to sit down and work on some alternatives, why would
you keep the eviction notices in place and keep moving toward your Class 3 Permit
because it seems like you are not really willing to look at alternatives?
Mr. Hinazumi: Well we have looked at alternatives that
were mentioned and we would like to proceed with our plan, and like I mentioned,
we started with a four (4) month notice, and we gave an additional thirty (30) days
seeing that folks who had made arrangements but still needed time to move, so we
have done that. We will keep that under consideration as we get towards the end of
this next thirty (30) day period. We also want to balance the fact that there is
tenants, one (1) couple moved out and already expressed their interest to purchase,
other tenants have given us a lot of family names of people that want to purchase in
there, and we want to balance that with getting the project sooner than later
because "knock on wood," the interest rates we have today are at historical lows.
When those start to go up that could make the, given everything talked about as far
as affordability, that could make the difference between somebody being able to
purchase or not, so that is what we are trying to balance here.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay so you are not willing to look at
alternatives anymore.
Mr. Hinazumi: Well the only alternatives we have are the
Peter Savio or developing on agricultural land.
Ms. Yukimura: But there are alternatives for converting
that ag land to urban residential, why would you not look at that? I mean when you
COUNCIL MEETING 87 MARCH 14, 2012
leave the eviction notices like they are, they are basically saying it is like holding a
knife over people if you do not move. Do you know how much stress that is
especially to elderly people who have lived in a place for thirty (30) to fifty (50)
years? I mean I just have to think about my parents and they would have options,
but even if they have options, moving is a big stress. So I do not get it that you are
not willing to at least for a limited time say okay we are going to remove the
eviction notices and we will sit down and we will see what kind of options we might
be able to create together with the tenants, with resource people like Peter Savio,
with even the County people, and Hawai`i Community Assets. All these people
working together, do you not think that maybe there will be other alternatives to
work with?
Mr. Hinazumi: That is when I communicate with all of the
tenants, I need to hear that back, what is the specific solution.
Ms. Yukimura: David, it is not going to come from one (1)
tenant one (1) at a time, it is going to come from a group of people sitting around a
table saying how can we solve this problem, how can we meet your needs, Grove
Farm, how can we meet the tenants' needs, how can we make it work for the long
range community? You know Koloa Estates there were lots that A & B was very
good in trying to give to Koloa people, well do you know what has happened to
them? They are worth $3 million to $5 million now and who is living in them? I
mean there is long -term issues if you really want people to live in the Koloa area for
a long time, I mean local people and generations, we have to think about all of this
and we as the decision makers who set the housing parameters have to think about
this and it has to be set -up at the time real properties are developed and sold.
Chair Furfaro: Okay on that note and within our own rules
we should be posing questions to you, we have posed a lot of questions and I will
like to ask other Councilmembers at this time if they have questions. Would you
yield the floor, Councilwoman? Thank you. Mr. Chang and then Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Chang: Thank you Chairman. I want to let the
viewing audience and the people know in here that there is another side to the
story, and I am going to ask David if he can tell us. Throughout the course of the
day there have been and through the course of the weeks I guess, I mentioned
earlier about the fifty (50) or sixty (60) or so people that are on the list and I just
want to say I can recognize many names, I can recognize many people, but I wanted
to rest assure the public that many of these are first -time young Kaua`i local people
that also express the desire of living in a single- family home in a nice welcomable
clean community with solar water heating. It is like for many on the other side a
dream come true or a possibility, can you expound on the fact that on the other side
there are people that are desiring to be in a single- family home that work in the
greater Kalaheo area, just people from the eastern corridor and the north that
COUNCIL MEETING 88 MARCH 14, 2012
works closer to the west side, or the west side people that work toward the east and
the north. There is a lot of people that are really planning ahead as to an
opportunity, can you expound on the requests or the demand if you will?
Mr. Hinazumi: Yes. I have been very fortunate to meet a lot
of people in the Koloa area who grew up there, have families, they have children
either living with them or away at school who want to come back home to Koloa. So
there has been people in the community that have expressed their interest. We
cannot find single - family housing in that area. I had a good friend that was looking
for a place a little while back but he was not able to find anything in Koloa where he
could return back to his home town, so this is that opportunity.
Mr. Chang: I am visualizing because this Council has
had many discussion. When the economic times turn, you mentioned a little bit
about lower interest at a historic rate, given the fact that hopefully barring any
natural disaster or any catastrophe, if you will, there is a lot of demand for housing
out in that area and I guess what I am saying and I will try to pose this in a
question, there are many that did not show up here, but I can rest assure that you
know your tenants and you know perhaps a lot of those that signed the petition, but
if you can verify I believe a lot of the people that like the houses certainly know the
people that are concerned about the tenants, but it just seems as though local
people like local people and we do not want to be tied into a situation that we are
tearing the community apart. Would you not say that a lot of people on one (1) side
knows the other people on the other side?
Mr. Hinazumi: Yes, that is correct. There are people in the
adjacent subdivision throughout Waikomo Subdivision that are interested to
purchase so their families can grow in Koloa or like I said return home to Koloa.
Mr. Chang: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you. Dave, has Grove Farm explored
the possibility of building on the other side of the road? That is one (1) of the options
you just talked about, going on ag land, and have you explored it? Is it feasible? Let
us not beat a dead horse. If you explored it and it is not feasible for whatever
reason, let us know.
Mr. Hinazumi: Yes, we have explored it and it is not feasible
because it is agricultural zoned. There is the stream that passes through that
property as well. The usable area is smaller, we do not feel we can get the full fifty
(50) units, I could not tell you the exact number we could get in there. But we have
COUNCIL MEETING 89 MARCH 14, 2012
looked at it and we do not feel that it is a feasible solution in this timeframe that we
are trying to get these houses out.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay and that is fair. Like I said that is fair,
so that option as far as Grove Farm is concerned is not available. The next option
was Savio or whatever, he was going to come down and buy the land, fix them up
and sell them back to the tenants. Is that what the plan was?
Mr. Hinazumi: Yes.
Mr. Rapozo: So he will come down, he will buy the
property from Grove Farm?
Mr. Hinazumi: I am sorry, when he talked to us directly at
the first meeting that we met at, he said, and he made it clear, that it is the tenants
that need to buy the property.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay, so the tenants come up and buy the
property from Grove Farm?
Mr. Hinazumi: Yes.
Mr. Rapozo: So what does he do? He just brokers the
deal? Does anybody have this in writing? Does anybody have this deal from Savio in
writing? JoAnn you have it? I see you nodding?
Ms. Yukimura: No.
Mr. Rapozo: I just want to know if anybody has it in
writing because you are answering and I see a head nod that way. I am not going to
sit here and listen to who is right, who is lying, who is not. Does anybody have it in
writing. If not, that is fine. I guess my point is this, Dave, we are here discussing a
resolution to reach a win -win, Councilmember Yukimura said it best, it is not right
to have somebody win by somebody else's standards, that works for both sides.
Likewise, the tenants should not be agreeing or winning in this issue based on a
standard set by Grove Farm. Likewise, Grove Farm should not be winning by
standards set by anyone else. And that is why I think I went to one (1) and I forget
which one (1) it was, it was a business seminar, and it said the reality is there is
never a win -win. There is a compromise but nobody ever gets all that they want,
that is just the way it works because somebody has to give and somebody has got to
take. So I guess rather than prolong the agony if option one is out, and based on
what you know of Savio's proposal, that is not feasible for Grove Farm as well?
Mr. Hinazumi: That is correct.
COUNCIL MEETING 90 MARCH 14, 2012
Mr. Rapozo: Okay. So that leaves really what is left is
how do you accommodate the tenants that are currently living at the camp? From
what I have read and from what I have seen, you folks have made some
accommodations to some tenants. I am not sure if everybody got the same offers and
it sounds like it differs from tenant to tenant, but that is where we are at, I think.
What is Grove Farm willing to do to make this transition the least painful? No one
is going to make Grove Farm move and build your project on ag land; no one is
going to make you do that. No one is going to make you agree with whatever Savio
wants to do, that is not going to happen. Grove Farm, at the end of the day, will
have the decision to make, whether popular or unpopular, that is the decision that
will have to be made by people outside of this seven (7) sitting on this table; that is
your guys' kuleana. Obviously the result of your decision, the people will make the
ultimate decision whether or not it is acceptable for the community. At the end of
the day we are going around this table and saying can you, can you, can you, can
you, but in all reality, it sounds like the decisions have been made. You have, and I
have spoken to the Housing Department, I actually spoke to the Mayor and it
sounds like that Grove Farm, and this is the question, Grove Farm, are you
constantly working with the Administration, Housing Department, Kaua`i Housing
Development Corporation, are you folks still in discussions with that to try to get
this transition as painless as possible?
Mr. Hinazumi: Yes.
Mr. Rapozo: That is continuing today?
Mr. Hinazumi: Yes.
Mr. Rapozo: And Kaua`i Housing Development
Corporation, you talked about the applications they have, possibly twenty (20)
tenants, they have thirty (30) vacancies, and is there an attempt by Grove Farm to
try to get some of these tenants into Pa'anau, the new unit that has yet to be built?
Mr. Hinazumi: Yes.
Mr. Rapozo: That is all I have, Mr. Chair. I just wanted to
find out where we are at because there are a lot of hypotheticals, but if Grove
Farm...if they have explored it and it is not feasible, then it is what it is.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Actually at this point I would like to
excuse you for a moment if I could, I would like to bring up our Housing Agency. I
want to hear a little bit from them.
COUNCIL MEETING 91 MARCH 14, 2012
GARY MACKLER, HOUSING DEVELOPMENT COORDINATOR,
HOUSING AGENCY: Good afternoon Council, Gary Mackler for
the Housing Agency.
Chair Furfaro: Gary, could you just give us an overview of
how the Housing Agency, as well as the Administration, has been working to some
solutions here and what options are out there. We heard some of this bumping lines
of waiting lists for the next phase of Pa'anau, how does all of that work and what
discussions have occurred so far?
Mr. Mackler: Okay. Several months ago David Hinazumi
came and sat down with me and asked us about what kind of resources we have at
the Housing Agency both in terms of homeownership and rental housing. Since that
meeting we have had several conversations and we share our information with him
about how people can get started in our Home Buyer Loan Program. We share
information about how folks can take advantage of the rental housing opportunities
that are pending, and Pa'anau Village Phase 2 which is a fifty (50) unit rental
project, a new project, is taking applications now. I do want to mention that the
deadline is no longer March 23, it is actually March 30; another press release went
out today to all the media to let people know about the specifics about the property,
the rent structure, the income limits, when the lottery is scheduled, so on and so
forth. We are anticipating that the earliest occupancy at Pa'anau Village Phase 2
will be June of this year. In Phase 1 of Pa'anau Village we are at ninety -five percent
(95 %) occupancy, there are a few units that are open and available at this time.
In terms of homeownership, in terms of the resources that we have that we
can make available through our homebuyer loan program and through the
financing that we can offer through that program, it really requires people to come
in and learn about the program and learn about how they can get started.
Preparing for homeownership, I think you all realize, does take some time and
many people that come to us initially are not buyer ready, and that is one (1) of the
driving forces behind the program is to help them learn how to become buyer ready
through homebuyer education, through credit counseling, and helping individuals
one by one. And so that is the kind of information we have been sharing up to this
time with David, and generally speaking, those are the resources that we offer as a
Housing Agency.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: Hi Gary, thanks for being here today.
Earlier, I do not know if you heard it, but the question was about how many units
would be covered under the housing policy, and from my memory, and I know yours
is better than mine, fifty (50) units, single - family, integrated, probably is going to be
a fifteen percent (15 %) requirement. My calculator says that, I am sorry?
COUNCIL MEETING 92 MARCH 14, 2012
Mr. Mackler: Let me just say that this project will be, is
applicable to the requirements of Ordinance 860, our affordable housing ordinance.
The general rule in that ordinance is that you are subject to a thirty percent (30 %)
affordable housing requirement. On a fifty (50) unit project we are talking about
fifteen (15) units, those units are allocated across different income brackets as you
know. There are incentives that are potentially available to the applicant which can
be given for integration, as you had mentioned, and also for building single - family
as opposed to multi - family housing.
Mr. Bynum: Right, so this would be a single- family
residential development so we get that incentive, it will integrate the affordable
units along with market units so it will get that incentive, and my recollection is
that would bring the affordable housing requirement to fifteen percent (15 %).
Mr. Mackler: Well we are, I would agree with you on the
integration incentive; I am not prepared to say that they are eligible for the
single - family incentive at this time because we are in discussions with them about
how our ordinance is drafted. It indicates without CPR ownership, and this property
I understand is being CPR'd or not subdivided, so there is a question still that was
unresolved over that incentive.
Mr. Bynum: See, that is why we have you there at the
Housing Agency. But for the sake of discussion let us assume the requirement is
eight (8) units and then that is divided below 80 to 100, 100 to 120, 120 to 140
correct?
Mr. Mackler: Correct, that is correct.
Mr. Bynum: So there would be two (2) in each?
Mr. Mackler: _ Approximately, yes. There would be two (2),
it is a 20, 30, 30, 20 allocation over the required units.
Mr. Bynum: And so there has been this discussion about
what it will give tenants. We will give the current tenants at the camp first right
and so this is where I need you to help me, when we make those units available we
have kind of a waiting list and a criteria right? It is not the developer, and that is a
question, is it the developer who determines who gets those affordable units under
860 or is it our Housing Agency that helps identify those (inaudible)?
Mr. Mackler: Two (2) things to say about that. First of all,
I think that the developer does have the discretion to give a preference to those who
are living there now in terms of selling units there. What you are referring to is
COUNCIL MEETING 93 MARCH 14, 2012
what is called our homebuyer list which is a list that we maintain of people who
have gone through homebuyer education classes and counseling to become mortgage
ready and to prepare themselves for future opportunities that come along. The idea
of the list is to give it to developers who are producing affordable housing and to
give those folks who have been preparing a preference for access to those units. So it
could be one (1) or the other or it could be a combination of the two (2) and I think
that under the circumstances I believe Grove Farm would have the discretion there
as to who is given preference.
Mr. Bynum: And I think you answered my question. So
any developer who has units made available according to Ordinance 860 can either
use the list that you provide or they can identify their own buyers as long as they
meet the income criteria?
Mr. Mackler: Yes. And just let me also mention, the whole
concept of the list is to help the developer to have people that are ready to go. I do
not want to use win -win because I do not think I am supposed to use that now, but
it is something that marriages the preparedness with the opportunity, and that is
what we are striving to do with the list.
Mr. Bynum: Right and you have answered that question.
My other question has to do with Paanau, right now there are twenty (20) people on
the list for fifty (50) units?
Mr. Mackler: Okay let me tell how you that process works.
We have, there is, and by the way this is a marketing process that is being done by
Kaua`i Housing Development Corporation through their management agent Hawai`i
Affordable Properties. Anybody can apply and anybody that does apply up to the
deadline of March 30 will have their application become part of the lottery which
will be done on April 12 at the Koloa Neighborhood Center. What that will do is
establish an order for how the management company will work through those
applications for lease up. We really want to give everybody a chance to apply and
have a fair opportunity for access to those units because a lot of times you may hear
about the opportunity weeks before somebody else and just because of that it does
not necessarily mean you should have a greater chance of getting those units. So we
always try to use a lottery, we think it is the fairest approach to giving everybody a
fair opportunity for those units. So there will be a lottery conducted in April and
from there they will be working in the order that is established to work through
those applications.
Mr. Bynum: So a current tenant of Koloa Camp can
obviously participate in that process, but Grove Farm is really not in a position to
guarantee that that person will be offered housing?
COUNCIL MEETING 94 MARCH 14, 2012
Mr. Mackler: Correct.
Mr. Bynum: Thank you.
Mr. Mackler: But I would really encourage those who look
at Pa'anau Village a housing opportunity for themselves to apply before the
deadline so that they do get at least into the lottery. Typically it takes a hundred or
more applications to fill fifty (50) units. There are income limits and sometimes
people, at the time they submit their application, are income eligible, but they may
get a second job, they get more hours by the time it comes to sit down with the
management company, they may be over income, it can happen, and so it is really
an opportunity to take right now.
Mr. Bynum: I agree with you. Thank you. Pa'anau is a
wonderful location, I was there at the dedication or the ground breaking. The
Hawai`i Housing...
Mr. Mackler: Development Corporation.
Mr. Bynum: They do a great job of managing those units
that we currently have, but you barely answered my question. On the site Grove
Farm has the availability to give first right of refusal to people they identify. At
Pa'anau you have to engage in this process.
Mr. Mackler: Yes.
Mr. Bynum: And you may or may not have an
opportunity to rent.
Mr. Mackler: Correct.
Mr. Bynum: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you Gary. Councilmember Kuali`i.
Mr. Kuali`i: Aloha and mahalo, Gary.
Mr. Mackler: Aloha.
Mr. Kuali`i: Just a quick question because we were
talking about the sales in Pa'anau 2, but what about Pa'anau 1. You said ninety -five
percent (95 %) occupancy and there is a few open right now.
Mr. Mackler: There is.
COUNCIL MEETING 95 MARCH 14, 2012
Mr. Kuali`i: So, to get into Pa'anau 1 right now there is
no waitlist?
Mr. Mackler: I do not think there is much of a waitlist; I
think it is very small if at all.
Mr. Kuali`i: So there is a waitlist? I know
Councilmember Chang mentioned that a little earlier.
Mr. Mackler: There normally is a list, I have not checked
with management on the current status of their waitlist. There typically is one (1)
but it does not necessarily mean that those who are on a waitlist are going to make
that choice to go in at this time either, so even if there is a waitlist, it still would be
wise to go in and talk to the management staff.
Mr. Kuali`i: And that is for rental?
Mr. Mackler: Correct and Pa'anau Phase 2 is rental.
Mr. Kuali`i: Oh it is also rental.
Mr. Mackler: It is all rental.
Mr. Kuali`i: Thank you.
Ms. Yukimura: I have a question.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you for making yourself available.
Ms. Yukimura: I have a question.
Chair Furfaro: One (1) moment, Gary. I am going to
recognize Vice Chair Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: So in the twenty percent (20 %) that has to be
eighty percent (80 %) and below median income, what is the sales price?
Mr. Mackler: I do not have those numbers in my head, the
information is downloadable on our County website under the Housing Agency
Document section.
Ms. Yukimura: Is it over, is it $220,000.00?
COUNCIL MEETING 96 MARCH 14, 2012
Mr. Mackler: For eighty (80) and below I think it is fairly
close to that number but I do not know the precise number.
Chair Furfaro: $228,700.00.
Mr. Mackler: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: With 5.5% it could be lower.
Mr. Mackler: It could be depending on the interest rates,
that is right.
Ms. Yukimura: That is at eighty percent (80 %), but if they
are actually forty percent (40 %) or sixty percent (60 %), it would be hard for them to
do that?
Mr. Mackler: It would be very difficult, correct, to get
financing, I would say.
Ms. Yukimura: And if it is in the discretion of the developer,
they can say if you do not cooperate with us now, we will not give you first right of
refusal?
Mr. Mackler: I am not going to speak for them in that
regard.
Ms. Yukimura: But it is in the developer's discretion?
Mr. Mackler: Whether to give them a preference to have a
first opportunity for those units, I would think it is.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: I would say thank you (inaudible).
Mr. Mackler: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Are there other questions for the
representative from Grove Farm? Seeing none (inaudible).
Mr. Kuali`i: Just a quick question because
Councilmember Rapozo seemed to summarize as he saw it, and then he made the
options obsolete, if you will, but I think when I heard you answer about the option
on the rezoning of the ag you did not say flat out that Grove Farm believed that it
COUNCIL MEETING 97 MARCH 14, 2012
was not feasible, period, you said Grove Farm felt it was not feasible in the
timeframe we have set.
Mr. Hinazumi: That is correct.
Mr. Kuali`i: So if there was more time, and I know
Councilmember Nakamura was talking about the cost associated with all the plans
and the delay and time, but it would be potentially more costly, but it is possible
and it is a decision you are making in the timeframe you have set.
Mr. Hinazumi: Yes.
Mr. Kuali`i: So it is not that it is not feasible it is just
Grove Farm saying it is not feasible in the time frame we have set? That is what
you said.
Mr. Hinazumi: Yes. Definitely not in the timeframe that we
set, and unfortunately I cannot answer you if it is feasible down the road until the
studies come out, and as Coouncilmember Nakamura mentioning a lot of studying
that needs to be done to see if that site will work. So I am sorry, I cannot answer
that.
Mr. Kuali`i: But I am just saying that it is a choice that
Grove Farm is making, would you not say then that it is a choice you are making at
this point but it is not with the complete determination on feasibility?
Mr. Hinazumi: It is a decision we are making now, but I
cannot tell you if it is feasible even down the road. I am sorry, I cannot answer that.
Mr. Kuali`i: That is fine. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you, David, and I believe when I first
asked you if we had any more questions, now we have several more questions.
Mr. Bynum and then Vice Chair Yukimura.
Mr. Bynum: Dave, are you familiar with the Land Use
Research Foundation?
Mr. Hinazumi: Yes.
Mr. Bynum: And they have submitted testimony that is
quite detailed about the tenants and Grove Farm, so did you participate in the
preparation of this testimony from the Land Use Research?
COUNCIL MEETING 98 MARCH 14, 2012
Mr. Hinazumi: No. We did talk with the Executive Director
David Arakawa.
Mr. Bynum Because there is a lot of detailed information
in this testimony about what Grove Farm has done and what tenants are doing, and
so is Grove Farm a funder, one (1) of the funders of the Land Use Research
Foundation?
Mr. Hinazumi: We are a member.
Mr. Bynum: So you provide funding for them?
Mr. Hinazumi: If you consider paying dues funding, I mean
we pay dues.
Mr. Bynum. I just wanted to clarify because there is all of
this detailed information. I know David Arakawa, we have talked many times, we
often... I cannot remember a time we did not get testimony on a land use resolution
or bill from, and I actually find it helpful because it is kind of like the developer's
perspective on land use, would you agree on that?
Mr. Hinazumi: Yes.
Mr. Bynum: Okay. Thanks.
Mr. Hinazumi: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Last question, Vice Chair Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: So you said that the property on the other
side is not feasible in this timeframe, what is that timeframe?
Mr. Hinazumi: As soon as we can start moving on this
project.
Ms. Yukimura: That is right. So you are using your Class 3
zoning as the timeframe by which to judge the feasibility of the other parcel?
Mr. Hinazumi: No.
Ms. Yukimura: Well what is the timeframe' How many
months, five (5) months, ten (10) months, one (1) year that you are looking at?
Mr. Hinazumi: I am sorry, timeframe to start this project?
COUNCIL MEETING 99 MARCH 14, 2012
Ms. Yukimura: It is your wording, it is not feasible to
develop this project in this timeframe, so what timeframe are you referring to?
Mr. Hinazumi: Right away. There is this pent up demand
for housing now, and like I mentioned, the interest rates are historically low. This
Council had the Executive Director of Hawaiian Community Assets come in and say
now is the time to buy.
Ms. Yukimura: So what is that now? So then maybe the
question should be what is your timeframe for developing the parcel that you are
looking at for Koloa Camp right now?
Mr. Hinazumi: Soon.
Ms. Yukimura: Developers do not develop with soon.
Mr. Hinazumi: Months?
Ms. Yukimura: Yes, how many months? When do you plan to
have those units available assuming that things go as you expect?
Mr. Hinazumi: We are hoping within the next six (6) to nine
(9) months we can get the units turnkey. Yes, within the next six (6) to nine (9)
months.
Ms. Yukimura: So in nine (9) months you will have them
ready for sale?
Mr. Hinazumi: That is what we are hoping for.
Ms. Yukimura: And how do you say that, so how do you
know that it is not feasible if you have not done the studies?
Mr. Hinazumi: I am sorry, I did not say it was feasible, I am
saying I cannot answer whether it is feasible or not.
Ms. Yukimura: I did not hear that. I heard you say it is not
feasible. Okay. So it may be feasible to develop but you do not know?
Mr. Hinazumi: That is correct.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay so that is what we were asking,
whether you would be able to sit down and look and see if it is feasible and see how
COUNCIL MEETING 100 MARCH 14, 2012
much time it might take and see if somehow, because nobody is talking about not
producing fifty (50) houses for people to buy. I do not know what cost yet, I have not
been able to pin that down, but nobody is talking about not doing that. We are
talking about how can we do that, but you are not willing to look at that because
you have decided that your timeframe of six (6) to nine (9) months and that is it.
Mr. Hinazumi: That is correct. We have explored that option
and we have ruled it out as a feasible solution at this point.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: David, I am going to excuse you for now.
Mr. Hinazumi: Okay. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: I will ask the County Attorney to come up.
May I ask you to introduce yourself again for the record.
Ms. Clark: Sure, I am Mona Clark, Deputy County
Attorney.
Chair Furfaro: Mona, references have been made to this
testimony we got from the Land Use Research Foundation of Hawai`i, have you seen
that?
Ms. Clark: I have seen some of it, yes.
Chair Furfaro: In particular, I am looking at paragraph 3,
well it seems that the resolution partially well- intended has unfortunately set
dangerous legal precedent by the County Council in using its powers to attempt to
influence, intervene, interfere with private contracts. As I said to someone who gave
statements earlier this morning, the vehicle here at the Council is to try and hear
public concerns. I had heard you give us a little guidance earlier, but can you give
us any words of wisdom as it relates to what I perceive here as telling us beware
County Council you could expose the County to liabilities.
Ms. Clark: Right. Well basically the lease as I said are
private contractual relationships. The landlord- tenant law set by State law, you do
not want to get into a position of passing a law or an ordinance that interferes in
that contractual relationship. As mentioned earlier, that one (1) case HRPT versus
Lingle involved some State legislation where the State targeted a particular
landlord who had relationships with various tenants and tried to say what criteria
had to be used when they renegotiated the rental amount every ten (10) years. That
law was held to be invalid as an interference with the contracts clause of the
COUNCIL MEETING 101 MARCH 14, 2012
Constitution. So you do not want to get into that sort of situation where you are
telling a landlord how their lease has to read or what the term of their lease has to
be; that is an area you do not want to venture into. The resolution itself though does
not mandate any interference such as that. I think you want to avoid the
appearance that anything that you are suggesting is going, you do not want to have
it perceived that...
Chair Furfaro: It is a mandate.
Ms. Clark: That it is a mandate or that you are asking
Mike Dahilig as the Planning Director to enforce the zoning laws, obviously that is
his job anyway to begin with, so there is nothing being added there. You do not
want a misinterpretation of that is some kind of veiled threat, that is obviously not
an area you want to go in to. I think that you should be careful. You say for example
that the Koloa Camp is a nesting ground for endangered Hawaiian ducks, I would
hope that you had a report or some survey or something from an authority that you
can rely on for that statement. But if it is just a hearsay statement that somebody
has made, I would not put that in a resolution and state it as fact, because
somebody could later rely on that and come back and say well the County said this
was the situation. So if you have verification for that then that is fine; if you do not
have verification I would say you should take it out. As far as picking a particular
developer and saying that person should have precedence over other parties, I do
not think that is a wise move either. You could potentially have some other
developer come in who has some plan that you would also want to consider or want
to cooperate with, so I would not single out one (1) person as done in this resolution.
Chair Furfaro: That could be interpreted as preferred
treatment?
Ms. Clark: Right. So those would be the three (3) areas
of caution that I would suggest to you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you, Mona. Let me see if I have
questions from the members. Mr. Bynum did I see your hand go up?
Mr. Bynum: Yes just clarification. The Koloa duck, the
specific developer, what was the third?
Ms. Clark: I do not think you want to give the
impression by directing the Planning Director to take action that he is already
going to take on his own. You do not want to make that, you do not want the
possible misinterpretation that that somehow is going to be used to effect a result
separate from the zoning purposes.
COUNCIL MEETING 102 MARCH 14, 2012
Mr. Bynum: Okay I would like to look at that one (1)
specifically because we are all doing our mark -ups here right?
Ms. Clark: Sure.
Mr. Bynum: I read that three (3) or four (4) times so I am
going to read it. Be it further resolved that the Council requests that the Planning
Director examine the Kaua`i Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance and other laws to
ensure that both the spirit (inaudible) and spirit of the law is not compromised by
allowing Grove Farm to proceed with its proposed fifty (50) unit development
without having obtained special use permits or holding a public hearing on this
matter. Would we not expect him to do that?
Ms. Clark: Right. I think he is supposed to fulfill his job
requirements as far as the zoning ordinance equally in this case as in other cases. I
do not think that this case should have special treatment to achieve a different end
than...
Mr. Bynum: That is the Planning Director's job right?
Ms. Clark: Yes that is his job, so I do not think you are
adding anything by putting it in there because you are not directing him to do
anything and you could not direct him to do anything.
Chair Furfaro: But you are saying by putting it in there it is
as if we are holding this development and that individual to a higher standard than
what is already expected of him?
Ms. Clark: I think it could be misinterpreted in that
way and I do not think that is something that you would want to have happen.
Mr. Bynum: See I did not interpret it that way, I just saw
it as hey Mike look close at this and make sure Class 3 only is okay, make sure that
there is not some other but I understand your point. I know the Planning Director
does that routinely.
Ms. Clark: Right.
Mr. Bynum: So it does not add a lot and I hear your
caution that it might be misinterpreted, I did not misinterpret it. Thank you for
that answer.
Chair Furfaro: Vice Chair Yukimura.
COUNCIL MEETING 103 MARCH 14, 2012
Ms. Yukimura: I do not have a problem with removing it, but
there are cases where public officials do not do their work and a resolution
oftentimes just calls requests, this is not a direction. It is like make sure we are not
overlooking anything, that is what the request is. So is there really a legal problem
with doing it?
Ms. Clark: If something happened further down the
road where it looked like it was getting different treatment and you had this in the
resolution, I think it has the potential of causing trouble. It is not necessarily going
to, there is not going to necessarily be any undue delays, I am just saying that since
it does not add anything and since that is his job to do anyway, I do not think you
benefit from putting it in there.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. But if you are just asking him to do
the job, you are not asking him to give any special treatment.
Ms. Clark: Someone could question why it is in this
resolution to start with.
Ms. Yukimura: Do you think it would be something that
would not be upheld in court?
Ms. Clark: I think this resolution is not going to
mandate that anybody take any particular action, it is simply requesting that
people do things. So the only problem that will arise is if something happens down
the road where a level of scrutiny was applied that would not be applied in other
cases and then they would look back at this resolution and say was this a policy
that was set in motion at that point, and that, I do not think, is something that you
would want to do.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo you have the floor.
Mr. Rapozo: But you are saying it is not worth the risk?
Ms. Clark: That is right.
Mr. Rapozo: Did you have a chance I know you said you
looked at some of the LURF testimony, but more specifically that Ukumaruku
Corporation case that they cite. It is Ukumaruku Corporation versus Worrall and
that is the case that I was referencing earlier pertaining to the Manoa Art Gallery
where the Manoa Neighborhood Board went and did a resolution. It was pretty
much a similar circumstances where the landlord, which was Ukumaruku
COUNCIL MEETING 104 MARCH 14, 2012
Corporation, decided or ordered the Manoa Art Gallery to vacate because they had
an issue with the lease. The Neighborhood Board passed a resolution and basically
taking the side of the Art Gallery and encouraging Ukumaruku to negotiate with
the Manoa Art Gallery, and they obviously filed a lawsuit, they sought $600,000.00
in damages, and at the end of the day they reached a settlement. Ironically, the
Executive Director for the Land Use Research Foundation, which is a lobbyist
groups that is no secret, they are professional lobbyist, and Dave is still here, yes
your dues do fund the lobbyist activity, it is not a secret. I do not know why
everyone is so shame about it, that is what they do, they are paid lobbyist, but they
come to us and they highlight these cases to warn us and I appreciate that. I do not
always agree with LURF's positions but in this case I do, that in fact he talks about
the, and I heard you mention it earlier, Mona, the veiled threat, and that is where I
am kind of worried about with this resolution. But anyway, ironically the Executive
Director of LURF, which is David Arakawa, was the Corporation Counsel of the
City and County of Honolulu at the time, so he is very familiar with the case. He
was the lawyer, he was the County Attorney for the City and County of Honolulu
when this case went. Although he only relies on recollection and he provides that
statement, the settlement judge proposed a settlement order which would have
required each of the several attorneys who were members of the Manoa Board to
pay $10,000.00 a piece toward the settlement, they did not require payment from
the non - attorney members, so just JoAnn would have to pay, but they required the
City to pay twice the total amount imposed on the attorney members of the
Neighborhood Board. So I mean it was serious enough where the County ended up
having to pay some money. So that is kind of where I am at, Mona, and I look to
you. I do not know what the final version of this will look like. I have highlighted all
the sections that I want to remove because I am afraid. I think we can still get
there. Do you believe, and the one (1) I kind of have concern with, be it further
resolved, and it is probably unfair, Mona, to have you on the stand and not be able
to digest it, and if you need time, fine, I do not have a problem. It says, be it further
resolved that Grove Farm is hereby requested to withdraw their eviction notice in
good faith to allow for deliberate and thorough examination of the alternatives to
Grove Farm's original plans: I am kind of concerned because yes, it does not
mandate, but when I read this testimony, I am concerned that it might be construed
as a veiled threat as well.
Ms. Clark: I do not see that as a veiled threat. I think it
is when you start citing other County powers that you can get into the veiled threat
area. If you simply keep it to the bare bones of saying we would like them to
reconsider and to take into account the tenants' positions, I do not see a veiled
threat there. When you start talking about other, if you start talking about the
County powers and how they are going to be used in relation to this situation, then
I think you have a veiled threat situation.
COUNCIL MEETING 105 MARCH 14, 2012
Mr. Rapozo: Yes. I mean if it said, it is hereby requested
to reconsider their actions and their activities, I probably would not have a problem,
but I think when we say, request to withdraw their eviction notices, I do not know,
it just seems a little firm on the County's side saying hey we want you take back
your...because it is their right to do.
Ms. Clark: I think if you try to put any force behind it to
make them take that action, then I think you can have potential problems.
Mr. Rapozo: Yes.
Ms. Clark: If you just say we would like you to do, I do
not think you have an issue.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Members, we have heard from the County
Attorney. It is my hope, and obviously I have heard from Mr. Rapozo, and sounds
like Mr. Bynum and maybe Mr. Chang, we might have some amendments to this
particular resolution. And so what I would like to do is plan on taking a recess for
those of you that want to look at some amendments, and then get to the business of
those amendments, and then eventually the amended resolution if it turns out that
way, and a vote. It has been five (5) hours almost of dialogue today and we still have
a full agenda plus we have four (4) legal executive sessions to get through. So I hope
you ate a hearty lunch, we might be here for a long time. On that note, we are going
to take recess and we will take a caption break.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 4:47 p.m.
The meeting reconvened at 5:26 p.m., and proceeded on its agenda as follows:
Chair Furfaro: We are back in session and a few
house keeping items here, this is based on the fact that we have several
departments waiting for other business for the day. Members, it is my plan to look
at deferring the building permit report item C 2012 -63. I would also like to see if we
can defer the resolution on the no parking module for Vidinha Stadium, Resolution
No. 2012 -26. I would also like to defer Executive Session 532, that is requesting the
release of a particular County opinion, and also on two (2) housing items to get
them deferred until April 11, 2012 so that we do not have people here for a long
period of time. This agenda item today has consumed a lot of the Council time. If
that is acceptable, members, I would like to put the word out to those Department
Heads that they do not need to wait into the night because we also have to take a
dinner break by our contractual agreements at 6:30 p.m. Can I just have an
indication that when we come up on those items you are okay with the deferrals.
COUNCIL MEETING 106 MARCH 14, 2012
Thank you. Would you so notify the various County Agencies. To the Housing
Department, a big mahalo for being here, you will re- appear in two (2) weeks,
April 11, 2012. Thank you again.
The meeting is called back to order, and I was, at my discretion as Chair,
going to allow Kepa Kruse three (3) additional minutes to share some information
with us, but no more than three (3) because I do not want to establish a precedent
that we have to continually move forward. If you could re- introduce yourself, I
would appreciate it and I will give you three (3) more minutes.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
KEPA KRUSE, KOLOA CAMP RESIDENT: Thank you Chair Furfaro. My
name is Kepa Kruse. I will only take these three (3) minutes just to clarify
questions that were raised that we did not have clear answers.
Going back to previous concerns from Councilmembers Rapozo and Chang
about commercial aspects of the camp lifestyle, let the record show that in 1891 the
school building was built and its first use was commercial so that a school teacher
could teach the Japanese tenants how to speak English to communicate in the
sugar plantation fields. Let it also show that within the camp Sueoka Store was
started by the Japanese plantation camp worker Mitsuyoshi Sueoka in 1913. That
was for Japanese plantation workers who were coming home after their day's work
to pick -up whatever items they needed from their store which is like a country
store; they moved to their new location later. Other things that were mentioned, I
spoke with Councilmember Nakamura about how many homes were unlivable.
There is one (1) home that is unlivable as of right now, it is one hundred fifty (150)
years old, being recognized as one (1) of the oldest homes in Koloa. That home is
across the street from our house, it used to be owned and lived in by Qi Inouye who
had lived there for seventy -two (72) years, she passed away there a few years ago at
the age of ninety -three (93). Other things, the bypass was created in 1996, the
zoning was done in 1969, and we had spoken about that. I am still not clear whether
or not the parcel was entirely zoned urban at once or it was zoned ag. I do not know
what happened when it was split, I would love to find that out and clarify that.
Other things as far as the livability of these homes, like I said these homes are a
hundred years old, yet in the last seventy (70) years they have been through three
(3) hurricanes, seven (7) major floods, along with the development of the
surrounding area, and it still remains. Regarding Peter Savio's written proposal to
Grove Farm, a written proposal was submitted on January 27 to Grove Farm. They
responded on February 10, but the details of what was said or what was perceived
has not been revealed to any of the tenants living there. Lastly, the thirty (30) extra
days which Grove Farm gave the tenants, I want to put on the record that the
tenants very much appreciate Grove Farm being reasonable especially when Kaua`i
was issued as a disaster zone from the weather from March 3 through the 1 1th.
COUNCIL MEETING 107 MARCH 14, 2012
Those are the only things that I wish for my three (3) minutes. Thank you for
letting me have the chance to clarify. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro:
meeting back to order.
You are welcome. I will be calling our
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as
follows:
Chair Furfaro: Members, when we took a break it was for
the purpose to allow time for the potential introduction of amendments to the
resolution. I believe earlier this morning we started with an approval of the
amendment which it was seconded, so the nature of our business now will in fact be
dealing with proposed amendments. Could I just get a little indication of how many
members have amendments? We have two (2) sets of amendments. Mr. Bynum
would you like to go first?
Mr. Bynum: Sure. I think this is an important issue
listening to all the testimony today. The amendments I have I think take out some
of the objectionable language that might put us in a conflict but keeps the meat of
the request. I have run it informally by the County Attorney who feels like it has
moved out the objectionable things but still makes the statement that I think is
consistent with the title.
Chair Furfaro: You want to highlight them for us?
Mr. Bynum: I do not know if the staff is passing this out.
I can go down step -by -step. In the first paragraph I am removing the end of the
sentence that says requiring tenants to evacuate the premises by March 8, 2012. In
the second paragraph there is this one (1) word change where it says Koloa Early
School a preschool which currently says would, I am substituting that with the word
could, because I do not know if that is a fact and it is kind of stated as a fact but it is
a concern. Then the fourth whereas, most of the tenants cannot afford such a price,
and I am suggesting we remove. In the sixth whereas, starting with the word price
through the word habitat, because... my rationale here is so it would read, whereas
there appears to be many unresolved issues and uncertainties involved in the
development of the camp site including but not limited to road access, traffic,
flooding, septic systems, and impact on the surrounding community. Those are
issues that the Council and the County is concerned with and it seemed
appropriate. Some of the other ones that I am suggesting to remove like price,
ownership, successed (sic) abilities, speculation, are issues that the County typically
would not, there would not be nexus. I am removing the part about the Koloa Duck,
and then in the final paragraph, the last part of be it resolved that the County
hereby requests Grove Farm to find a way to include existing tenants in its plans to
COUNCIL MEETING 108 MARCH 14, 2012
develop the camp, period, and removing the rest of that sentence. On the back page,
be it further resolved that Grove Farm is hereby requested to withdraw their
eviction notice in good faith to allow for a deliberate and thorough examination of
alternatives. So we remove the word the and to Grove Farm's original plans. And
the next three (3) further resolves are removed. And then the final further resolved
the name Peter Savio is removed. So my view is this removes the parts that the
County Attorney was talking about which kind of overstep our bounds but leaves
the intent of the resolution intact. So that is my rationale for this and that is my
stab at it.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you Mr. Bynum. Councilmember
Nakamura.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you Councilmember Bynum for
attempting to address the concerns. You said on the second page, the second
paragraph, but only that second paragraph is bracketed. Was your intent to have
the second, third, and fourth, you said the second, third, and fourth.
Mr. Bynum: I am sorry, I am looking for my notes so
maybe I need to see the copy you are looking at.
Ms. Nakamura:
copy of his proposed amendment?
staff.
Mr. Bynum:
Ms. Nakamura:
Chair Furfaro:
Can someone give Councilmember Bynum a
I was reading from the mark -up I did give to
That is not what it shows.
You still have the floor.
Ms. Nakamura: My question to Councilmember Bynum is
was your intent to have the second, third, and fourth paragraph bracketed?
Mr. Bynum: On the second page?
Ms. Nakamura: Yes.
Mr. Bynum: Yes.
Ms. Nakamura: And so that would need to be changed in this
amendment if that was your intent.
COUNCIL MEETING 109 MARCH 14, 2012
Chair Furfaro: What we are reading from they are not
bracketed.
Ms. Nakamura: Yes. Thank you.
Mr. Bynum: I do have really mixed feelings about one (1)
of the changes I suggested and so I would really love input from members. It has to
do with the final paragraph on page 1. What is bracketed is taking out such that all
tenants be continued to live, to continuing tolive in the camp. I have mixed feelings
about that removal because again this is a request and I know that that is the
request of many. And so I would really prefer to leave that in and I wanted further
clarification from the County Attorney about whether there was an objection to that
portion.
Chair Furfaro: So for the amendment you introduced to us,
is it in or is it out? It is out here.
Mr. Bynum: It is out here.
Chair Furfaro: So is that what you want?
Mr. Bynum: I have very mixed feelings about. Seeing
how, I would really prefer to leave it in but I want to see if there is an objection in
terms of...I thought that Ms. Clark's analysis was helpful for me to make these
terms and I do not know if you addressed that particular one.
Chair Furfaro: Mona, I will suspend the rules. I do not like
to do this once we enter into deliberation, but please come up for the sake of
Mr. Bynum's proposed question.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Mr. Bynum: The question I think would be, would you
have an objection to leaving "such that all tenants be able to continue living in the
camp." Because it says request, I do not know if that oversteps the bounds. The last
paragraph begins, the first be it resolved.
Ms. Clark: I do not see a problem to leaving that
language in.
Mr. Bynum: Then I prefer to leave it in, seeing how those
others are not bracketed, and it has to be reworked. In terms of my amendment, I
prefer that those words stay in.
COUNCIL MEETING 110 MARCH 14, 2012
Ms. Yukimura: Mr. Chair?
Chair Furfaro: So let me get this clarified from Mr. Bynum
first. Mona, thank you.
The meeting was called back to order and proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Bynum's introduction of this resolution
on the first be it resolved on the bottom of page 1 such as all tenants will be able to
continue living at the camp, he showed that is being removed and he is now
indicating that he wants to leave that in.
Mr. Bynum: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Did I get that correct.
Mr. Bynum Yes sir.
Chair Furfaro: Let the record reflect that change.
Mr. Bynum And the other change, my intention was on
the second page, all three (3) paragraphs 3, 4, and 5 come off here.
Chair Furfaro: Members, do we understand? I am going to
get to discussion. Do we understand where Mr. Bynum has changed his resolution?
Now also let the record show on page 2 of this piece be it further resolved the second
be it further resolved, the third be it further resolved, and the fourth be it resolved,
those are all bracketed to come out.
Mr. Bynum: Correct.
Chair Furfaro: Is that correct?
Mr. Bynum Correct.
Chair Furfaro: Okay very good. With that being said, is
everybody fine with what Mr. Bynum is suggesting this amendment to reflect? On
that note I will go to Vice Chair Yukimura and then Mr. Rapozo.
Ms. Yukimura: I just want to be clear, I thought that in
paragraph 4 on page 2 you just wanted to remove the name Peter Savio.
COUNCIL MEETING 111 MARCH 14, 2012
Mr. Bynum: That would be on the final paragraph where
it says copies of this resolution, because that would make it consistent with
removing this paragraph.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay.
Mr. Bynum: This is one (1) that I thought the County
Attorney said hey when you mention a specific developer you are getting into...
Chair Furfaro: Before you go any further let us get this
clarified for all the members. So the fourth paragraph I had just read back to you,
the be it further resolved where it references Mr. Savio, you have indicated that
that entire paragraph come out in your amendment.
Mr. Bynum: Yes sir.
Chair Furfaro: That is correct?
Mr. Bynum: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: So that answers Vice Chair Yukimura's
question.
Ms. Yukimura: I have one (1) more question.
Chair Furfaro: You have another question you can direct it
at Mr. Bynum.
Ms. Yukimura: And you are also proposing to remove
paragraph 5?
Mr. Bynum: No.
Ms. Yukimura: So it is just 2, 3, and 4 that you are
proposing to remove?
Mr. Bynum: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay.
Mr. Bynum: And that one (1) name.
Ms. Yukimura: Right. So is it out procedure that we are
going to have this re- written because I have a suggestion, Chair.
COUNCIL MEETING 112 MARCH 14, 2012
Chair Furfaro: I am going to make a statement here, we will
not act on a pencil scribed piece.
Ms. Yukimura: Good. Alright.
Chair Furfaro: The pieces that Mr. Bynum has changed
since he introduced it, even if we have to take a recess we will go back to our staff to
correct appropriately. But let us get to all of those changes before we send our staff
out to make changes.
Mr. Bynum: Thank you for your patience, Chair, I think
they have been clear now.
Chair Furfaro: You have the floor, Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: Mr. Chair, I have a resolution, I mean an
amendment as well, and I am not sure where the votes will fall. But if Mr. Bynum is
going to take a, our amendments are very close to each other as I can see. Rather
than take another recess I would ask that I be able to circulate my amendment,
have the discussion, and if we can live with the amendment then we can live with
the amendment, if not then we can take a recess. Or the staff, while we are
addressing my amendment, they can be working on Mr. Bynum's amendment.
Chair Furfaro: So I am going to ask the staff to be working
on Mr. Bynum's corrected version and then I will give Mr. Rapozo the floor.
Ms. Yukimura: Could I make another suggestion as terms of
procedure.
Chair Furfaro: Let me recognize you first and let us be very
clear, and then I will let Mr. Rapozo have the floor, that is future tense, and that is
the intent.
Mr. Rapozo: May I?
Chair Furfaro: You have the floor.
Mr. Rapozo: I will move to amend Resolution No. 2012 -29
as circulated.
Ms. Yukimura: We cannot have two (2) motions to amend.
Chair Furfaro: Would you let me run the meeting?
COUNCIL MEETING 113 MARCH 14, 2012
Ms. Yukimura: Point of order.
Chair Furfaro: Point of order. Would you let me run the
meeting? If somebody is going to say to him we are going to wait until Mr. Bynum's
piece is corrected before I am going to allow him to introduce anything, then let that
come from the Chair.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay.
Chair Furfaro: Okay? That is only fair and reasonable and I
am a pretty reasonable guy.
Ms. Yukimura: You are.
Chair Furfaro: Okay.
Mr. Rapozo: I will make a point of clarification because a
point was made, Mr. Bynum's amendment was never moved onto the floor. Yes, I
pay attention.
Chair Furfaro: I try to as well, thank you. So we do in fact,
it would probably be best suited if the corrections are made in Mr. Bynum's
resolution then it is acted upon on the floor. And so I am back to my original
statement, we are going to take a few minutes for a recess to get his piece corrected.
We are not going to introduce something.
Mr. Rapozo: We already have a motion and a second.
Chair Furfaro: That is true. So if you would be willing,
Mr. Rapozo, I would like to get his version complete, so I am asking leading from
the Chair that your motion and second be removed.
Mr. Rapozo: I will honor the request of the Chair and I
will withdraw my motion.
Mr. Chang: I believe I seconded; I withdraw my second.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much. On that note, we are
going to get a correct version of Mr. Bynum's piece. But before I recess, I will
recognize the Vice Chair. You folks keep me really busy.
Ms. Yukimura: We are really glad we have you as Chair,
Chair. What I am going to suggest is something that may want to hold up the staff
COUNCIL MEETING 114 MARCH 14, 2012
work on Mr. Bynum's amendment because this is what I want to suggest. I do not
care if it is Mr. Rapozo's amendment or Mr. Bynum's amendment, I would like to
suggest that we go in seriatim and have a discussion, because there might be more
changes that come up that appear to be like a consensus. Then we would be clearer
to know what kind of amendment to draft or we would get closer as we discuss each
one (1) of them. And so I think it might be valuable to take one (1) of the .
amendments, and like I say, it does not matter because as Councilmember Rapozo
has said they are both similar, and go over each one (1) at least in terms of some
discussion, some organized discussion. You know the first paragraph that is being
amended, the second, and discuss it, and then maybe do some writing.
Chair Furfaro: I do understand what you are saying but I
want every member, before we go in seriatim reviews, I want to make sure that
every member has Mr. Bynum's intent sitting in front of them. That is what I want
to do. I understand your concern and we will approach them in order but I want to
make sure everyone has a clean copy so there is no continued confusion of well I
meant that to not be bracketed and take that out and just a word. Let us get it in
front of us. So if the audience can be patient with us as we work through this, we
will allow some time to correct Mr. Bynum's amendment. This is not a formal
recess, this is just a break, you can take us off tv. Vice Chair Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: In the interest of time do we want to do some
of our business?
Chair Furfaro: I have just announced a few pieces that I
want to make sure we communicated the right information about certain deferrals
to other Department Heads. I would like to go and do that while we are on the
break.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. We are in recess.
There being no objections, the meeting was recessed at 5:49 p.m.
The meeting reconvened at 6:07 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: We are back in session. As the Chairman I
have in the past year and two (2) months made some standard changes and I would
like to request and so note that going forward as we work on Floor Amendments, I
would appreciate not only the bracketing but the highlights. If we can do so I would
appreciate it, it obviously helps us sixty -three (63) year old guys get through the
process. So I want to thank the staff for going back and color coding Mr. Bynum's
COUNCIL MEETING 115 MARCH 14, 2012
amendments. Now on that note, Mr. Bynum, we actually have this introduced on
the floor with a second.
Mr. Bynum moved to amend Resolution No. 2012 -29 as circulated, seconded
by Ms. Nakamura. (See Floor Amendment attached hereto.)
Chair Furfaro: Okay it has been moved to amend as
circulated with a second from Councilmember Nakamura. We are planning to go
through this again individually and I would like Mr. Bynum to take us through that
while I call for the vote. We are in the voting mode, we are not in the discussion
mode so members please note that. Mr. Bynum you have the floor, you can take us
through the first highlights.
Mr. Bynum: Each step?
Chair Furfaro: Each step. Excuse me and be ready to record
the votes on each piece.
Mr. Bynum: In the first paragraph, this amendment
removes the words requiring the tenants to evacuate their premises by March 8,
2012.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Members all those in favor...
Ms. Yukimura: Mr. Chair?
Chair Furfaro: Yes?
Ms. Yukimura: Just as a matter of procedure can we just
open it up for discussion. I do not have any discussion on this particular one (1). So
if Councilmember Bynum goes to whatever amendment in seriatim, then if we can
have some discussion, if there is none, then vote?
Chair Furfaro: I believe we are calling for the vote and I do
have a problem with that. You can .voice your commentary each way you vote at
that point. So if you are a aye and you want to voice why, or if you are nay and you
want to voice why, I will allow the individual members, but to enter into a
discussion we are in decision making process right now. So is there anyone that
would like to say or quote anything about the way their vote goes on the first you
have that privilege.
So all those in favor of this first one (1) signify by saying aye. Is there any
nays? None. Next, Mr. Bynum.
COUNCIL MEETING 116 MARCH 14, 2012
The motion to amend the first paragraph was then put, and unanimously
carried.
Mr. Bynum: In the next paragraph there is one (1) word
change from would to could.
Chair Furfaro: If you want to voice a comment during your
vote, please do it or raise your hand. All those in favor indicate by saying aye. Next
one (1), Mr. Bynum.
The motion to amend the word "would" to "could" was then put, and
unanimously carried.
Mr. Bynum: In the fourth whereas it is eliminated.
Chair Furfaro: All those in favor say aye.
Ms. Yukimura: Mr. Chair?
Chair Furfaro: Okay.
Ms. Yukimura: I feel like we should keep it in because it is
the truth.
Chair Furfaro: Okay thank you. There is a comment on that.
All those in favor of voting for this one (1) indicate by saying aye. Any nays?
Ms. Yukimura: No.
The motion to delete the fourth whereas paragraph in its entirety was then
put, and carried by a vote of 6:1 (Ms. Yukimura voting no.)
Chair Furfaro: One (1) no. Thank you. Mr. Bynum next one
Mr. Bynum: The sixth whereas, the words price,
ownership, susceptibility to future speculation, historical and cultural preservation
opportunities, endangered species habitat is removed.
Chair Furfaro: This is a request to vote on the sixth change.
Ms. Yukimura: Mr. Chair?
Chair Furfaro: You have the floor.
COUNCIL MEETING 117 MARCH 14, 2012
Ms. Yukimura: I am going to vote aye,
but I want to say that I really think there are unresolved issues as to price, and I
think we have to be concerned about future speculation, which is why I have been
talking whenever we talk about affordable housing, I have been talking about
perpetual affordability in a place like Koloa. Unless you address that, the property
is only affordable for the first sale.
Chair Furfaro: So noted. All those in favor indicate by
saying aye. Next item Mr. Bynum.
The motion to amend the sixth whereas paragraph was then put, and
unanimously carried.
Mr. Bynum: Then the next whereas regarding the
Hawaiian duck is removed.
Chair Furfaro: All those in favor indicate by saying aye.
Thank you. Mr. Bynum.
The motion to delete the seventh whereas paragraph in its entirety was then
put, and unanimously carried.
Mr. Bynum. On the back page the first be it further
resolved is amended to remove the words the and to Grove Farm's original plan. So
it ends up just saying to allow for a deliberate and thorough examination of
alternatives.
Chair Furfaro: All those in favor...yes?
Mr. Rapozo: I am not going to be supporting that. I know
you said you can say it at the time of the vote, but I would ask your indulgence. I
believe that that paragraph is, after reading the LURF's testimony and the case in
O`ahu, I think, in my opinion, crosses that line. I think when we are, although it is
only a request, that is what happened on O`ahu in Manoa, it was only a request.
The ramifications were quite expensive, so I will not be supporting that, and in my
amendment would have removed that entire paragraph. I would ask for others to
really consider removing that entire paragraph. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: So noted. Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: I am going to support this as it is because to
remove this paragraph, this is the title of this and it is a request so...
COUNCIL MEETING 118 MARCH 14, 2012
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. I understand your concern, but
after consultation with the County Attorney sharing with us and because the word
is request, I will be supporting it. May I ask all those in favor of this amendment
signify by saying aye. Any nays?
Mr. Rapozo: No.
Chair Furfaro: One (1) nay. Thank you. Mr. Bynum.
The motion to amend the eleventh paragraph was then put, and carried by a
vote of 6:1. (Mr. Rapozo voting no.)
Mr. Bynum: You want to do these each? Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Yes.
Mr. Bynum: So the next paragraph, be it further resolved
that the Council requests Mayor, that one (1) is to be removed.
Chair Furfaro: That whole paragraph?
Mr. Bynum: That whole paragraph.
Chair Furfaro: Vice Chair Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: I am going to be voting no, because I think it
is quite appropriate for the Council to request the Administration to work with
Grove Farm. Again, it is not tying them to anything but it is all part of the effort.
What I am hoping is that we would all together be in the same canoe and in the
same direction working toward a win -win solution and the Administration should
be part of it and so should the tenants and Grove Farm and everyone; and again, so
this is just a request.
Chair Furfaro: I am going to ask for a vote. Mr. Bynum did
you want to speak again?
Mr. Bynum: I did not feel strongly that this needed to be
removed so if there was a sense that it could stay I would be okay with that.
Chair Furfaro: Okay, let your vote reflect that, it is your
amendment. All those in favor indicate by saying aye. Mr. Bynum I will now call for
those that are nay for the removal of that item. All those in favor of leaving the item
in there signify by saying aye.
COUNCIL MEETING 119 MARCH 14, 2012
Ms. Yukimura: Leaving the item in?
Chair Furfaro: Yes leaving it in. All those in favor in leaving
this first paragraph in signify by saying aye. Is there any nays. Okay Mr. Bynum it
stays.
The motion to delete the twelfth paragraph in its entirety was then put, and
failed by a vote of 0:7.
Mr. Bynum: The next paragraph regarding the Planning
Department would be removed.
Chair Furfaro: All those in favor of the summary that was
just given to us regarding the Planning Director's CZO issue please signify by
saying aye. Mr. Bynum next one (1).
The motion to delete the thirteenth paragraph in its entirety was then put,
and unanimously carried.
Mr. Bynum: And then the next paragraph regarding a
specific developer would be removed.
Chair Furfaro: All those in favor...
Ms. Yukimura: May I say something?
Chair Furfaro: Go ahead.
Ms. Yukimura: I actually am in favor of removing Peter
Savio's name, but I think that working with knowledgeable affordable housing
developers is important. So I would like to, and I guess I would have to propose
another amendment, but to provide appropriate assistance to any knowledgeable,
affordable housing developer. I just want to say that Kaua`i Housing Development
Corporation has been mentioned. Peter Savio was on the first board of the Kaua`i
Housing Development Corporation because of his reputation for being very creative
and very committed to making housing available to local people. I think if we are
looking for solutions, we need to call upon people like developers like that because
affordable housing is not like for profit housing, it is a lot more difficult and you just
need people who are experienced and who know the different angles to it. So I guess
I will be voting no, but not with the idea of not removing Peter Savio's name, I am
okay with that, just with the concept of what I am in favor of is the concept of
drawing upon knowledgeable and affordable housing developers.
COUNCIL MEETING 120 MARCH 14, 2012
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Members I am calling for the fourth
paragraph on the second page which is indicated to be removed. All of those in favor
signify by saying aye. Any nays?
Ms. Yukimura:
Mr. Kuali'i:
No.
No.
Chair Furfaro: Two (2) nos, please so note and record as
such. Mr. Bynum.
The motion to delete the fourteenth paragraph in its entirety was then put,
and carried by a vote of 5:2. (Mr. Kuali`i and Ms. Yukimura voting no.)
Mr. Bynum: And the last change would be in the final
paragraph removing the name Peter Savio.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Is there anyone wanting to say
anything before I call for the vote on this item? If not all those in favor of removing
Peter Savio in the resolution as named in the last paragraph signify by saying aye.
Any nays? None.
Now we have an opportunity to entertain additional amendments. Is there
any new amendments? If not I am going to go to the main motion as amended. We
are now at the main motion as amended and if there is any further discussion
before I call a roll call vote? Vice Chair Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes. Mr. Chair, I just want to thank
everyone for this very long drawn out process but something that has been about an
issue that is very important to not only the tenants, not only to Grove Farm, but to
our community. I want to reiterate again that this is just a request and it is
non - binding, but it is the policy body of the Council asking the parties to look really
hard at the possibility of finding a solution that can serve the needs of all
stakeholders here, and it is based on the faith in the power of co- creation, good
intention, and goodwill, and caring for everyone. If we go through this process and
find that a win -win is not possible, at least it will be not for a lack of trying, and if
we can find a win -win then thank God that we tried. So that is the intention and I
hope that we can perhaps create something that will be a source of pride to Kaua`i.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Mr. Kuali`i, I will give you the
floor second since you were the co- introducer.
Mr. Kuali`i: Thank you Mr. Chair. I too want to thank
everyone for the time and effort put in this resolution today and leading up to today.
COUNCIL MEETING 121 MARCH 14, 2012
Mr. Chair I want to thank you especially for recognizing the importance of putting
it on the agenda to begin with to give the community a chance to come to us and not
only talk to us, but to talk to the rest of Kaua`i as well. I was very moved by a lot of
the testimony and happy to do what we can to help in any little way we can. Thank
you Mr. Chair.
Chair Furfaro: As they have pointed out I have always to be
politically correct in the documents we serve. There is a pair of brackets we have to
fix so we will continue to take some discussion, but I will not vote until we have the
document fixed. Is there any further discussion before I speak? Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you Mr. Chair. Thank you everybody
for coming out. This was a real tough resolution, we spent a lot of time on it. As
Councilmembers, I think I have referenced this several times throughout the day,
we have to balance what is emotional, what we each have passions for, and what we
want to do, what we are legally obligated to do, and yet what parameters we must
stay in when we do things. This resolution from the beginning troubled me quite a
bit because I believe that the Council has certain obligations to the people, and
doing the research on other cases, I am quite troubled that in fact this resolution
would have made it to the Council floor and put us in a position where we could
actually bring more exposure and liability to the County. The discussion was lively
and I have got to tell you that it is quite emotional, the empathy and the feelings for
the tenants, could things have been done better? Definitely, I think. Does the
Council have the duty to intervene in these types of deals? I do not know if we have
that and part of my job is to protect the taxpayers from liability, protect the
taxpayers on the entire island from potential exposure. It is a tough call when you
are dealing with an emotional issue like this because there are things that I want to
do, there is a lot of things God, I mean God only knows what I would like to say, but
I cannot say what I would want to say because again limited by the confines of what
I believe is our duties and responsibilities as Councilmembers. The original
resolution, like I said this morning I would not have supported as it was written.
The one (1) issue I did not support I think the request for Grove Farm to withdraw
their eviction notices I think I am very very concerned about that and I understand
that the attorney has advised us that it is okay; I am seriously concerned about
that specific item. All of the rest I think I can live with because I do not think there
is an issue of what everyone on this island wants to see happen in Koloa. They want
fair and equitable treatment, they want the tenants to be respected, and they want
the tenants to be treated fairly. Likewise, we as Councilmembers also represent
people in business, we have that obligation as well. We are not just limited to
represent the first person that runs up to us and says hey we need help. We are not
obligated to count the testimonies that are for this resolution and against it, and
then whoever gets the most we vote that way; that is not our job. Our job is to take
a look at it from the high view, look down and say hey what is in the best interest of
the people of Kaua`i. One (1) could argue that Grove Farm is a special interest, Mel
COUNCIL MEETING 122 MARCH 14, 2012
you sold out to Grove Farm, whatever. One (1) would argue hey the Koloa Camp is a
special interest you guys are catering to Koloa Camp, this resolution is written
slanted for Koloa Camp. Is that our job as legislators? No, it is not. I think the
revisions, the amendments have brought some balance, I really believe that. I think
that the Administration, I think Grove Farm, I think everyone at the table got the
message loud and clear, we want you guys to resolve this issue and try for a
win -win. I think that is all I have to say, Mr. Furfaro. I appreciate again everybody
coming to testify and all of the people that did not show up but took the time to send
emails or make phone calls because we did get probably a couple hundred at least
over the last couple of weeks. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum I appreciate the process that happened here
today, and I never know what I am going to say when I do these final things but I
know what is in my heart is that this is a tough job being on a Council. I kind of
long for the days when I was on that side because there you can just say hey this is
the way it should be. But we all took an oath here to follow the law, the
Constitution of the United States, and it is a national discussion about to what level
do communities have a right to control their destiny through zoning, and planning,
and land use rules, with one (1) side saying if it is my land I can do whatever I
want, and the other side saying no if it is residential you cannot put a pig farm next
to my house; and it is a national debate that is ongoing. That is why we have
County Attorneys to help us sort through all of that to the best of their ability, and
so finding that balance is really important. Grove Farm is an extremely important
landowner on Kaua`i, the entire future of this island in some ways is in their hands.
They own all the land that way in Lihu`e, and then when Mr. Case acquired it, he
bought the AMFAC land that way; so forty thousand (40,000) acres right in the
heart of our island and we want all of our businesses to be successful. But yet it is
our job to make sure that we find that balance and hold them accountable because
there are capitalists, there are entrepreneurs, they are supposed to get a return on
investment, and we want them to get that return on investment. Grove Farm does
have a long history of doing really positive things for the community. Now some of
you are going to say yes, but that was under previous ownership, and I agree with
that. And so I do not think Grove Farm can continue to talk about the (inaudible:
largest) of the past, it is like what are we going to do going forward? But having
said that, I know that Grove Farm is the company that can develop workforce kind
of housing that we desperately need, especially in Lihu`e where the jobs are. And so
we want them to be successful but we also want to represent the values and views
of our community to the best of our ability and seek that balance. I think this
Council did that today, I am proud of us collectively. I know I made some
compromises, there is some language in here I would have liked to leave in but I
took out because I wanted us to pass this resolution tonight. There is some other
language I know some members would have liked to introduce that they chose not
COUNCIL MEETING 123 MARCH 14, 2012
to, I assume for the same reasons. And so thank you, Mr. Chair, for your leadership
today and I think this is a good resolution.
Now I want to say the negative thing. The key question I asked today was did
Grove Farm reach out to the tenants before they got the letter in the mail; I do not
think they did. I believe they have been scrambling in good faith to some level
trying to work out the fire storm that got created by this because it is serious and it
has implications for the future of the island. This is not the only plantation camp
where people are still living in old homes at low rates and this has to strike fear in
those people because that was the other thing that happened was fear was afraid.
Nothing is more personal to us than our home and our family, and so when those
things get threatened it is scary. But I saw a lot of calm reasonable people here
today, I see a calm reasonable response from Grove Farm to the best of their ability.
But the folks that come up here they got bosses too right? They have to represent
the interest of their bosses right? And so I think this is a good outcome. Thanks for
letting me ramble a little bit.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Chang.
Mr. Chang: Yes thank you. I want to thank the audience,
the viewing audience, and the fellow Councilmembers for putting together what I
believe is a workable resolution. There were a lot of signatures to support Koloa
Camp and I appreciate that and I think a lot of people need to realize not a lot of
people look at the resolution and they understand the plight but they do not
understand what the whole wording of the resolution would be. I just wanted to,
this morning I called my mom up who in three (3) weeks will be eighty -five (85), she
is the eldest of the matriarch of the Chinen family, immigrants that came from
Okinawa. We talked about Ms. Fernandez, the oldest being eighty -two (82) and soon
to be eighty -three (83) I guess, and I remember seeing Councilmember Yukimura
tear up because we are all thinking about our parents. My mom had six (6) brothers
and she was one (1) of two (2) sisters, two (2) daughters, my dad was one (1) of ten
(10) — six (6) brothers, four (4) sisters. So we all know what the plantation camp is
all about. I had a pleasant conversation with Doreen Jacintho because I used to
take her late father Louie home because he would like to sing a lot but did not have
transportation from Kukui Grove or Po`ipu beach, and I kidded with somebody this
morning on a personal note, the Wala'au theme song was written, recorded, and
sang in the Koloa Camp home of then Alberta Genovio with aunty
Kalikokauahikealoha; so I am familiar with that area because of my hanabata days
and my roots. When the plight of Puamo`o Camp was going on, I actually video
talked to some of my classmates and the people, so I understand that. From
Puamo`o if you are familiar with the outskirts of Wahiawa, I would go through the
Schofield Barracks side, and I actually stopped in Kunia Camp; now that was
DelMonte and I was there for the last planting of the pineapple. I wanted to do a
story of that closure, and one (1) month later without any announcement, DelMonte
COUNCIL MEETING 124 MARCH 14, 2012
pulled out. So I understand what the roots and what the history is all about. I do
want to say something that I said a little earlier, also in fairness to those that did
not show up, there a lot of people on this whole island that are looking for affordable
single housing homes. So I am just hoping that obviously there can be a situation
that will be helpful for this historic community and yet also keep it in mind that
there are those that are out there that want to live on Kauai, want to return to
Kauai and live in good, quality, affordable homes which I think is the goal for
Grove Farm. So I just want to thank everybody for their testimonies and again
thanking our fellow Councilmembers because this is something that weighed
heavily on all of us and gave us a chance to reflect on our roots. Thank you very
much.
Chair Furfaro: Anyone else wishes to speak before I speak
and call for the vote? If not I would like to say really through back and forth
communications today, we have an amended resolution. It is something for many of
us here growing up in the islands, I grew up on the Waianae coast, first sugar
plantation to close. I remember star hooking tilapia in Kaupuni Stream, I
remember running through the Old Mill Street and taking some Portuguese bread
from the different ovens, obviously I would get into trouble for that, and the smell of
the furos lighting up at five o'clock in the camp; those are really reminiscent parts of
growing up in Hawaii. I lived in Kilauea in my uncle's home who was one (1) of the
supervisors there two (2) years before Kilauea Sugar closed, my wife's grandfather
Mr. Ito was the head carpenter for Kilauea Sugar. That is a wonderful time in the
history of Hawaii and living it was a great opportunity. But we do need to look
forward in providing work opportunities, housing opportunities, and I have to tell
you, I believe Grove Farm has done a number of wonderful things, reaching out to
our community, and I thank them and David for being here today to actually listen
to the concerns. That is the most important piece to me about living aloha in our
community, we can agree to disagree and walk away at the end of it feeling that we
got an opportunity to speak our piece. That is one (1) of the reasons I was willing to
put this on the agenda today and I want to remind us all this is a resolution that is
non - binding. I also want to thank the County Attorney's Office and Mona, thank
you very much for some of your explanations today. On that note, I shall call for the
vote and I would call for the vote by roll call on the amended resolution.
The motion for adoption of Resolution No. 2012 -29, as amended herein, was
then put, and carried by the following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Bynum, Chang, Kualii, Nakamura, Rapozo,
Yukimura, Furfaro
AGAINST ADOPTION: Yukimura
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING:
TOTAL — 7,
TOTAL — 0,
TOTAL — 0.
COUNCIL MEETING 125 MARCH 14, 2012
Chair Furfaro: We are going to break for dinner by rules
and then we will back here on or about 7:35 p.m. for the rest of the business on the
Council.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 6:38 p.m.
The meeting reconvened at 7:42 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: We are back in session after our dinner
break, I am going to ask the Clerk's Office if you could please read from
Communication 2012 -63.
C 2012 -63 Communication (02/16/2012) from Councilmember Rapozo,
requesting the Administration's presence to provide the Council with:
•An annual (2011 calendar year) synopsis of construction activity in the
County of Kaua`i as reflected in the building permit information that is
normally provided to the Council on a monthly basis.
• A projection of construction activity in the County of Kaua`i for the 2012
calendar year.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. I would like to say this is two (2)
issues here: 1) regarding the building permit, I have a note here that called in to our
staff from Public Works that IT is having a difficult time producing the contractor's
forecast and so they are asking for a deferral request for two (2) weeks. As I earlier
said I indicated we would like to have that item deferred, and I appreciate
Mr. Rapozo putting this on the agenda for deferral. But before we get that, Scott
could you put this item back on the screen here because there is another part to this
forecasted building permit that when I actually introduced the format that we are
using, it was for the purpose also to help us actually forecast growth in taxes; that
was the main purpose that it was used. So for the first eight (8) months I actually
shared with them, so the idea is that you trace the values of the permit, you apply
the building portion that gets exposed, and from that at the determined rate of
$4.52 you can see the value of the permit contributing to the growth in revenue.
And so through the period of June of that year I did the tracing myself, so for six (6)
months we had a growth of $489,000.00 in new revenues based on the way we laid
out the building permit schedule. So it had two (2) features to it and at this point I
just showed them several months how they could use it for forecasting, but to this
point I do not think they use it for that; so it had two (2) particular pieces. I know
Mr. Rapozo's question is using those reports for other purposes as well as it relates
to economic benefits and so forth. Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you Mr. Chair. Actually, I think you
remember because I think you were the Councilmember that requested, and it has
got to be back ten (10) or eight (8) years ago, as those reports would come to this
COUNCIL MEETING 126 MARCH 14, 2012
Council they served no purpose at all. I can remember the discussion and I believe
you were the Finance Chair that this is such valuable information to forecast
revenue because permits have value. We are entering the budget cycle; in fact I
believe it is tomorrow we get the Mayor's Budget. Part of the reason for my request
was really to get what you have put up on the screen and I appreciate that. I am not
sure what IT is struggling with, I can only imagine that they are trying to
oversimplify something. We get the monthly reports, you get the quarterly reports, I
was just asking for something similar to this as we move into the budget cycle at
least this Council will have an idea what is forecasted, granted that may not be
accurate, but we will have an idea based on the number of permits being issued
what we can anticipate as revenues from these projects. So I definitely will support
the deferral, but if IT cannot get it together, I would hope that Public Works or
Buildings can come up with something like this and give us an overview of the year
in review. Like I said we are right into the budget cycle now, so the sooner the
better, but thank you very much, that actually helps quite a bit.
Chair Furfaro: I do have a folder prepared that has the last
two (2) years of the tracking of building permits that I can give that to you and
therefore you can get, if a building cycle is eighteen (18) months, you should be able
to forecast this kind of impact next year for those values coming full circle.
Mr. Bynum you have the floor.
Mr. Bynum: Just a related comment and I think this
would be great for us to be able to do this kind of forecasting but it probably means
Public Works working with Finance to develop that. But this is similar to what, a
number of us attended a smart growth conference again this year that communities
all over the Country do public - private partnership, big projects like downtown
redevelopment and they can look at that project and predict the tax revenue going
forward and use a mechanism called tax incremental financing to put the
infrastructure at the front end by predicting the property tax revenues which will
be the debt service for that large infrastructure improvement. It is a way to take a
vision you have for a downtown and do it not incrementally in pieces but kind of go
big and use these creative finances. You need to be able to predict the revenue in
order to use that kind of thing. So it does have many good uses. Thank you Chair.
Chair Furfaro: So Scott on this particular matter I am going
to be asking for a deferral but if we can give this template to Mr. Rapozo and then I
will give to Mr. Bynum the last two (2) years in file, so you can take that from there.
I am looking for a deferral on this item.
Mr. Chang moved to defer C 2012 -63, seconded by Mr. Kuali`i, and
unanimously carried.
COUNCIL MEETING 127 MARCH 14, 2012
Chair Furfaro: For the Clerk's Office could you take us to
the next item.
CLAIM:
C 2012 -80 Communication (03/01/2012) from the County Clerk,
transmitting a claim filed against the County of Kaua`i by Reid Judson, for damage .
to his vehicle, pursuant to Section 23.06 Charter of the County of Kaua`i: Mr. Kuali`i
moved to refer C 2012 -80 to the County Attorney's Office for disposition and /or
report back to the Council, seconded by Mr. Chang, and unanimously carried.
COMMITTEE REPORT:
A report (No. CR - FPP 2012 - 01) submitted by the Finance /Parks &
Recreation /Public Works Programs Committee, recommending that the following be
received for the record: •
"FPP 2011 -01 Communication (04/20/2011) from FPP Chair Bynum,
requesting Committee agenda time to discuss the County's financial
condition as it relates to the Comprehensive Annual Financial
Report (CAFR),"
Mr. Kuali`i moved for approval of the report, seconded by Mr. Chang, and
unanimously carried.
A report (No. CR -PL 2012 -01) submitted by the Planning Committee,
recommending that the following be approved as amended:
"Bill No. 2424 - A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE TO ALLOW SOLAR
ENERGY FACILITIES IN THE AGRICULTURE DISTRICT,"
Mr. Rapozo moved for approval of the report, seconded by Mr. Kuali`i. (See later for
Bill No. 2424, Draft 1.)
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
RAYMOND HO, RESIDENT: I am somewhat concerned about the
dropping of the Class B rated lands from the purpose of this bill. As I see it, the
development of solar - voltaic (sic) systems pretty much follows the same criteria as
agricultural products. The better the land, the cheaper it is to put it in place, as you
could put it in place for less, you lower the cost and ultimately the beneficiaries is
the whole island of Kaua`i. There are limited areas on the island where solar farms
work the best. You can go to north of Kapa'a versus the west side, you are looking at
about a twenty -five percent (25 %) factor of intensity of light and of sun. That being
the case, I realize that it does not eliminate the Class B lands but it lengthens the
process of permitting. Right now is a prime time for development of solar systems
and there is a lot of interest of developing it here in Hawai`i, especially on Kauai
because we are the highest rate payers; so financially it makes a lot of sense. The
motivation is great for us and there is a lot of outside interest to finance and fund
because the financial package or the financial lack of a better word or description
COUNCIL MEETING 128 MARCH 14, 2012
but the numbers work. I can see on some projects that I am working on you are
looking at maybe about $0.04 per kilowatt hour difference. Now that sounds little
but that is millions of dollars and the ultimate charge is to the consumer. Right now
KIUC is paying $0.20 per kilowatt hour, but the cost of the products have gone
down and it is becoming more and more competitive and the opportunities is now.
We realize that the Federal tax credit program expired last December but there are
still funds, they call them safe harbor funds. I worked with one (1) client, they have
up to $300 million in safe harbor panels, but there is a deadline on it that they have
to expend it and if they cannot do it within a reasonable amount of time they will go
somewhere else and invest their money.
Mr. Topenio: Three (3) minutes Mr. Chair.
Mr. Ho: I would like to urge a reconsideration to
re- instate the B Classifications. Some of the other issues for consideration is that
the (inaudible) limitation, the ten percent (10 %) limitation, let us say a person has a
fifty (50) acre parcel, you are limited to five (5) acres then you can basically do a one
megawatt (1 MW) farm. But the one megawatt (1 MW) farm is going to require an
interconnection which what we see is a substation, and that substation is going to
cost $1 million regardless whether it is five megawatts (5 MW) or one megawatt
(1 MW). So you want to be able to spread the cost as much as possible to drive the
cost down, so that is another concern with the percentage limitation. I think KIUC
has given their testimony, I was not here when they did it this morning, but just as
a member of the community I would just like to see or be able to... and the
competition is good, there is plenty of proposals out there wanting to come in, that
are coming in. KIUC has opened up an RFO, this is the first time I have heard that
acronym RFO. I think it is request for opportunity, usually it is RFP. But there is a
lot of interest and I hope we can take advantage of it for the least amount of money
for the greatest benefit of all of us. Another concern I think people raise up, are you
going to take land out of agriculture? Well to me the paradigm shift is harvesting
solar energy as an agriculture product, I mean basically every crop you grow is for
energy. There is food consumption, or burning, and that is the least efficient. I guess
I will drop it there, I will stop.
Chair Furfaro: I appreciate your testimony. I also thank you
for realizing that by this change on Class B lands we are not saying that it could not
be permitted, it is just saying that we need a application for use in front of the
Planning Department. Now, let me give you a couple of other things that seem to be
crossing a nexus unknown yet but we know it is going to cross. The testimony we
heard today this morning from KIUC was the third different number we heard that
says how much solar power will you really buy. Today was the third time they gave
us a different number and never in writing. On the other side we have over the last
two and one -half years a study funded by the County that we are farther ahead
than any other County on what are we going to do for important ag lands, what are
we going to earmark and what kind of credits will people get for committing prime
ag land to an agricultural plan? That study is supposed to be completed in
November for the Council. So we have these two (2) pieces covering across of which
we are absolutely uncertain what KIUC's position is. One (1) number was as low as
fifteen percent (15 %) of the seventy -eight megawatts (78 MW), next time we got a
number that was forty percent (40 %), today we got a number of fifty percent (50 %)
but only used in the day time. It is kind of like trying to dig out good information so
we can make the appropriate decisions, especially as it comes to the important ag
lands which was mandated to us by the State. So we have a lot of moving parts.
COUNCIL MEETING 129 MARCH 14, 2012
Mr. Ho: At the fifty percent (50 %), let us say at the
fifty percent (50 %) you realize not all of it is going to be solar, it is going to be other
hydro...
Chair Furfaro:
Mr. Ho:
Chair Furfaro:
daytime.
Mr. Ho: Okay. At that scenario up to now it has
taken five (5) acres to produce one megawatt (1 MW), so you are looking at a total of
no more than two hundred -fifty (250) acres that is being considered to take out of
agricultural use.
Chair Furfaro: And even the number, one megawatt (1 MW)
for five (5) acres, changed today because it was one for four.
Mr. Ho: Right. I was going to say you go to the west
side and it is one for four.
Chair Furfaro: Yes.
Mr. Ho: And then down the road it is going to be even
less because efficiency will increase.
Chair Furfaro:
Mr. Ho:
Chair Furfaro:
Mr. Ho:
That is not what he said to me.
He said fifty percent (50 %) solar?
He said fifty percent (50 %) solar in the
Absolutely.
And the panel costs have dropped.
Have dropped again.
Yes.
Chair Furfaro: So we have all these variables that we are
asking our cooperative of which the County of Kaua`i is a huge member of this co -op
to give us some reasonably good information so we can incorporate it into our
strategic thinking, and right now we are saying with the State pieces just exempt A
and the bill only exempts A lands.We would like to have a better understanding of
what these potentials are before we just flat out permit B. That is all we are asking
for right now and KIUC got the message from me today. I am not someone who likes
to see a number that changes every month. I think it is just a good business practice
especially since we are mandated something on important ag lands from the State.
Mr. Ho: I still take my position.
Chair Furfaro: Understood. I just wanted to explain mine.
Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you. Thank you for being here and
waiting through that entertaining session all afternoon. It sounds like you have a
pretty good handle on this industry, the solar industry. You mentioned a window of
opportunity, how much window of opportunity do we have?
COUNCIL MEETING 130 MARCH 14, 2012
Mr. Ho: I am speaking to the Federal tax credit
which expired in December.
Mr. Rapozo: Correct.
Mr. Ho: My understanding is there were investors
that preferred that purchased panels and that is what I am speaking of that are
safe harbored. My understanding was that that extension was good until close
towards the end of the year, maybe not quite to the end of the year that it had to be
committed to a project somewhere, so would it be here or Arizona? That would
represent thirty percent (30 %) and then most situations that thirty percent (30 %)
benefit...when a developer develops it, it is going to go to the benefit of the KIUC in
our case, so they will get a thirty percent (30 %) discount either by free energy for "x"
number of years or a discounted rate because of the tax credit and that is why some
of them are doing it. If the tax credit comes in, this is the rate, if it does not come in,
this is the rates here or here, depends whether we can get the tax credit.
Mr. Rapozo: And you mentioned about the ten percent
(10 %) lot coverage restriction but that already is in place with the Stat. So
regardless of what we do, the State already has...
Mr. Ho: Yes, but you do not have to follow the herd.
Mr. Rapozo: Well we have to follow the State law and
that is a concern I have is that we actually are not, this would deviate from the
State law this bill here that is in front of us today, would deviate to some extent
because the State law is allowing...
Mr. Ho: This is more restrictive.
Mr. Rapozo: Very much so. So that was a concern of mine.
Last week I did pass it out; I voted to support the Committee but I am not so sure I
am going to do that today. I think the, I believe the State's initiative is one (1) that
is well thought of and I think it took everything into consideration. I am very, very
comfortable with the current State law and I think that would encourage, I think
this bill actually discourages developers or farmers or whatever you want to call it.
Mr. Ho: Well it discourages the smaller farmer and
landowner.
Mr. Rapozo: Correct.
Mr. Ho: To me fifty (50) acres and smaller does not
make sense because of that percentage.
Mr. Rapozo: But that we will not be able to change.
Mr. Ho: But that is besides the point now.
Mr. Rapozo: Yes we could not change that. I think in
some of the projects that we look at I think some of it does encroach onto some B
lands. It may not be a huge encroachment; this bill will prohibit it.
COUNCIL MEETING 131 MARCH 14, 2012
Mr. Ho: Well I was told that it could be approached
under a special use permit.
Mr. Rapozo: Well (inaudible).
Mr. Ho: But that is just a lengthening of the process.
Mr. Rapozo: Correct. And depending on the size of the
project it could, the process for the permit could deter a potential project or solar
project to come here.
Mr. Ho: My point I guess, I just like to see it
simplified as easier as possible because of the competition we face in the world and
the interest rates are really low, phenomenal. This is, I do not want to say a perfect
storm situation, but in the opposite direction this is a, now is a good, good time.
Mr. Rapozo: And from what I understand, the panel rates
are a lot cheaper today.
Mr. Ho: Yes. They are under $1.00.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Ho: $1.00 a watt; it used to be $5.00 a watt to
build. Like the Kapa'a one (1), I think was one megawatt (1 MW) and it was like
$5 million, $5 million plus to develop. Today it would be a percentage less to do.
Mr. Ho:
Mr. Bynum:
Chair Furfaro: Well we are going to be acccepting this as a
committee report but when we come up on the bill for second reading if there are
members that would like to defer it since we have not received the appropriate
information in documented form from KIUC, I could entertain a deferral. That
would be up for the other members. Thank you very much for your testimony. We
have a question for you.
Mr. Bynum: Actually, Mr. Ho, it is good to see you again,
your patience is enormous, you have been here all day. I am a little bit at a loss
because I was not here last week, but my understanding is, and I think Mel covered
it, so if I am being redundant I apologize, by the ten percent (10 %) is out of our
purview.
Mr. Ho: Right.
Mr. Bynum: But basically this bill says if you are going to
be under the State provision you need to do a use permit correct?
Mr. Ho: Right.
Mr. Bynum: So I am going to go defer to my colleagues
here. It was recommended we pass tonight so we will see what happens.
Okay.
Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING 132 MARCH 14, 2012
Mr. Ho: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Is there anyone else that would like to testify
on this? Now remember we are on (inaudible). May I call for the vote to accept the
Finance /Parks & Recreation's Committee Report.
The motion to approve CR -FPP 2012 -01 was then put, and unanimously
carried.
RESOLUTIONS:
Resolution No. 2012 -18, RESOLUTION CONFIRMING MAYORAL
APPOINTMENT TO THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION (James E. Nishida,
Jr.): Mr. Chang moved for adoption of Resolution No. 2012 -18, seconded by
Ms. Nakamura.
Chair Furfaro: Any discussion? Mr. Chang.
Mr. Chang: Thank you Chairman. First of all I just
wanted to thank Mr. Nishida again for stepping up to serve on the commission. We
also did have a letter dated March 12 that Mr. Nishida's term as was stated was
from January 1 of this year until December 31, 2013, but it actually starts on
January 1, 2012 and expires December 31, 2014; that was a correction that we got
per the memo.
Chair Furfaro: Yes and I want to thank Paula Morikami for
sending that over because that was a question I posed addressing the term of this
appointment. Is there any more commentary? This appointment is voice vote?
The motion for adoption of the resolution was then put, and carried by the
following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Bynum, Chang, Kuali`i, Nakamura, Rapozo,
Yukimura, Furfaro
AGAINST ADOPTION: None
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None
TOTAL — 7,
TOTAL — 0,
TOTAL — 0,
TOTAL — 0.
Resolution No. 2012 -26, RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING NO- PARKING AT
ANY TIME ALONG A PORTION OF THE COUNTY ACCESS ROAD IN THE
VICINITY OF VIDINHA STADIUM SOCCER FIELDS, LIHU`E DISTRICT,
COUNTY OF KAUAI: Mr. Chang moved to defer Resolution No. 2012 -26, seconded
by Ms. Yukimura, and unanimously carried.
Resolution No. 2012 -27, RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE FILING OF
THE KAUAI COUNTY 2012 ACTION PLAN (HOME INVESTMENT
PARTNERSHIPS PROGRAM) WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND
URBAN DEVELOPMENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, FOR A GRANT
COUNCIL MEETING 133 MARCH 14, 2012
UNDER TITLE II OF THE CRANSTON - GONZALEZ NATIONAL AFFORDABLE
HOUSING ACT (PUBLIC LAW 101 -625), AS AMENDED: Mr. Chang moved to
defer Resolution No. 2012 -27 to the April 11, 2012 Council meeting, seconded by
Mr. Kuali`i, and unanimously carried.
Resolution No. 2012 -28, RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE FILING OF
THE KAUAI COUNTY 2012 ACTION PLAN (COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT
BLOCK GRANT) WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN
DEVELOPMENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, FOR A GRANT UNDER
TITLE I OF THE HOUSING AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT ACT OF 1974
AND 1987 (PUBLIC LAWS 93 -383 AND 100 -242), AS AMENDED: Mr. Chang
moved to defer Resolution No. 2012 -28 to the April 11, 2012 Council meeting,
seconded by Mr. Kuali`i, and unanimously carried.
BILLS FOR SECOND READING:
Bill No. 2424, Draft 1 - A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE TO ALLOW SOLAR
ENERGY FACILITIES IN THE AGRICULTURE DISTRICT: Ms. Nakamura moved
to approve Bill No. 2424, Draft 1, on second and final reading, and that it be
transmitted to the Mayor for his approval, seconded by Mr. Kuali`i.
Ms. Yukimura: Mr. Chair, I want to ask for a deferral on this
because I want to work on some amendments but I need to understand further what
KIUC is saying. So if it is okay, I would like one (1) more deferral to the next
meeting.
Chair Furfaro: There is a request for a deferral. A deferral
has precedent over anything else. You need a second. I will move to defer if
everybody is okay or there is no discussion about it; I just want to make sure.
Ms. Nakamura: I think KIUC's testimony today was very
helpful and I think it is important to digest that information. I had a chance to look
at it and it shows how very little more of our land in solar or PV energy will be
accepted into the system, which really limits the amount of acreage needed; to my
calculation, it was very minimal. I think it would be fine to, thirty to forty (30 to 40)
acres would be the most needed.
Ms. Yukimura: So I am thinking of an amendment that says
something like that or sets some limits. But there is also, people can just come in
and get permits and sit on them too. So I just need some time to digest this and see
if there is a way to manage it.
Ms. Nakamura: Okay. I think the amendments that we did
last time worked for me because it excludes the B lands which based on the
Planning Department's data that they presented last week, and Councilmember
Bynum was not here, showed that a lot of the B lands would be in the category of
COUNCIL MEETING 134 MARCH 14, 2012
preliminary IAL designation. So that is why I felt comfortable with the amendment,
but a deferral will be fine.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo, I am not going to recognize
Mr. Chang yet because he is going to second a deferral.
Mr. Rapozo: I think I made my comments and concerns at
the committee report. I do want to make note that we were, last week, the
information that we got from the Planning Department was quite different from
what we got from KIUC today.
Chair Furfaro: Yes.
Mr. Rapozo: So that is troubling because I think... this bill
is being submitting by the request of the Planning Department, correct? I mean
Councimember Nakamura is introducing it, but I believe it was by request of the
Planning Department. What is troubling is the information that was presented to
the written questions was, again, basically it led me to believe that KIUC had no
limit, which would raise a concern that hey we better get a handle on this because'
we may lose all our B lands if we allow it, and then today we hear from KIUC that
is not even true, that is not even accurate; so that is troubling. What we find out
today is that the number of acres of land that could be affected is very minimal
when you look at the big picture. So the other thing I asked for last week was if
anyone had gotten any input from the Farm Bureau; we have not seen anything
from the Farm Bureau as of this time. So obviously I will not support, I mean I will
support the deferral if people need more information. I am prepared to vote today
with the information that was received by KIUC today. I think for me, anyway, I
think we need to try and encourage to get to that fifty or forty (50 or 40) acres as
soon as possible. The window of opportunity as Mr. Ho has stated is now, and so I
will not be supporting the bill, I will support the deferral today for the purpose of
obtaining more information. But as far as what KIUC provided today, I do not
believe that the ag lands are in any danger. I think the State has set out the
parameters for the use of ag lands for solar energy facilities, and I am very happy
and satisfied with those restrictions set forth by the State law, so I will not be
supporting the bill. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Do we have a deferral seconded?
Ms. Yukimura: I think Councilmember Nakamura.
Chair Furfaro: Councilwoman Nakamura.
COUNCIL MEETING 135 MARCH 14, 2012
Ms. Nakamura: I am sorry, I just want to confer with staff
because the request was made to the Farm Bureau and I just learned that we, I
think they met last night, and so we just received something this afternoon. I think
a deferral is appropriate to have time to look at that testimony because they did
attempt to address our concern.
Ms. Yukimura: In that case, Mr. Chair, I move to defer.
Chair Furfaro: Do not second it yet, I have yet to speak. My
statement about having three (3) different numbers from different sources is a
factual statement; we have a new proposal this morning. I also think the
commentary from the Farm Bureau is extremely important, but we need to get a
real grip on this. And so there is some very strict expectations I am going to have on
the Planning Department to get us this information as accurate as they possibly
can. I will support the deferral.
Upon motion duly made by Ms. Yukimura, seconded by Mr. Kuali`i, and
unanimously carried, Bill No. 2424, Draft 1 was deferred.
Chair Furfaro: Now I just want to make sure one (1)
housekeeping item before we, we did cover the request for deferral on the items
from the Police Commission as well as from the County Attorney's Office? We did
vote on that, did we not?
Mr. Rapozo: No, we did not.
Chair Furfaro: So you folks both have correspondence from
the County Attorney's Office as well as a request from Ernie Kanekoa, Chairman of
the Police Commission, to have a deferral on this item.
Mr. Rapozo: Which item are we on Mr. Chair? Were we
on C 2012 -67? Are we going into Executive Session? We still have C 2012 -67,
C 2012 -78, and C 2012 -79 that we have not addressed yet on the agenda.
Chair Furfaro: This is why everybody is making requests,
what were the numbers again?
Mr. Rapozo: Page 3, C 2012 -67, C 2012 -78, and
C 2012 -79.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
AMY ESAKI, FIRST DEPUTY COUNTY ATTORNEY: For C 2012 -79 it
will be a deferral.
COUNCIL MEETING 136 MARCH 14, 2012
Chair Furfaro: But these items we need to go into Executive
Session first.
Chair Furfaro: What I am asking is one (1) of those items is
what I just referred to?
you.
Ms. Esaki: Yes.
Ms. Esaki: Yes. C 2012 -79 and also ES -531.
Chair Furfaro: Yes I have them. That relates to these, thank
Mr. Rapozo: Mr. Chair?
Chair Furfaro: Yes.
The meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows:
Mr. Rapozo: Before we entertain a motion to defer on
C 2012 -79 and Executive Session 531, I would like to make a comment.
Chair Furfaro: You are recognized on the floor and you want
to comment on C 2012 -79 and what was the other one?
Mr. Rapozo: The comment will be on C 2012 -79.
C 2012 -79 Request (03/05/2012) from the Office of the County Attorney, for
authorization to expend funds up to $10,000.00 to retain special counsel to
represent the Police Commission in obtaining a legal opinion as to Charter Sections
7.05A and 11.04 and related matters: Mr. Bynum moved to receive C 2012 -79,
seconded by Mr. Kuali`i.
Chair Furfaro: You have the floor.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you. I Chair Public Safety and I have
been relatively quiet regarding this matter in the hopes that it would have taken its
course and I have received the communication from the County Attorney as well as
Mr. Kanekoa. I believe that the language on the posting was sufficient for us to
approve special counsel funds for the purpose of obtaining a legal opinion. I will
concede that it is not as clear as I had hoped and I understand that the Police
Commission will be addressing the language so we can specifically ask for a
declaratory judgment. I do want to make a few comments because I think we need
COUNCIL MEETING 137 MARCH 14, 2012
to act expediently on this matter. I think although the Administration and the Chief
and the Commission had a press conference the other day, I watched it in full, I
watched the entire conference, and it appeared to be a situation where there was
going to be some consensus and some cooperation. But, I will tell you, Mr. Chair, as
you have given us the flexibility as committee chairs to communicate directly with
the Department Heads, I have been in communication with the Police Chief from
the beginning. Whether he was working or on leave, the Mayor says he was on leave
and the Commission says he was working, I just want to make a statement because
I think what occurred subsequent to that meeting requires again some expedient
action by this Council. The Chief returned to work and I spoke to the Chief
yesterday, the Chief returned to work on Monday I believe. He reinstated or
brought back the two (2) Assistant Chiefs from their leave, which was his
prerogative, they returned to work, they were given their credentials and all of that;
however they were prohibited from accessing their computers. I spoke to the Chief
and I told the Chief that I was going to be sharing this because I think it is
important that we as a Council understand what is going on and why it is
important that this needs to get infront of a court as soon as possible. When the
department made the inquiry with the IT Department that they needed these
computer terminals accessible by two (2) Assistant Chiefs of the Police Department
they were told under strict orders of the County Attorney's Office not to provide
access; that is unacceptable, Mr. Chair, and my fellow Councilmembers. I do not
understand what is going on. I do know that this issue with the authority of who
controls the Police Department is of such importance because the public safety is at
risk. When you have two (2) Assistant Chiefs that run bureaus that cannot access
computers because somebody in the Administration, whether it is the County
Attorney or the Mayor, has decided that they should not have that access, I believe
we have some serious problems. So I understand the request, Mr. Chai. If there is
anything that we can do to expedite, I realize that they are having a Commission
meeting on the 23rd I guess it was?
get us.
Chair Furfaro: Yes.
Mr. Rapozo: So that would take us up to, what would that
Chair Furfaro: The 28th.
Mr. Rapozo: It would be the 28th. So that is actually two
(2) weeks from now, that is long. I think what has transpired, what the Chief also
told me was that they had confiscated the personal external drives from one (1) of
the Assistant Chiefs that was not connected to the computer. They had no business,
in my opinion, of taking that. I guess what I am saying is it needs to be determined
in court, not by an attorney and another attorney dueling opinions, and I agree with
you, Mr. Chair, it needs to get in front of a judge and the language probably needs
COUNCIL MEETING 138 MARCH 14, 2012
to be clarified. I believe that somehow within our scope of authority, I do not know
how to get that message across, that hey let us all grow up and let us all allow the
Department Heads to run the department as they see fit and let us not interfere
whether it is the Attorney's Office, or the Administration, let us not interfere with
the daily operations of the Police Department because it does impact public safety. I
am as you can tell very, very frustrated, because after watching the press
conference I thought we had reached some type of agreement, but as you can tell
they have not. There is still some interference by the Administration or the County
Attorney's Office that needs to be rectified. Thank you for the time considering the
request. I just, Mr. Chair, I do not know if the Police Commission can, maybe if you
can communicate if it is possible for them to get an emergency special meeting or if
we should do one (1). I know that this kind of behavior has to stop.
Chair Furfaro: Let me make a few comments here, and
Mr. Rapozo, so noted are your concerns. I think you know that I have raised the
same concerns. First of all the deferral request comes from the Police Commission
Chairman. If you read through it, you will see very specifically that they are asking
it to be not more than thirty (30) days; that is the outside range, that is not the
inside range. Secondly, I think this technicalities here. I think there has to be
dialogue between the Police Commission and the Attorney's Office because we do
not want another attorney that interprets this particular process to be challenging
our attorneys. What we need to get to is an attorney that in fact represents the
Police Commission if they want a declaratory judgment, that is what the
communication has to be. And so having spent time with Mr. Kanekoa as
co- employees with ITT Sheraton, we go back a long way. He made this request to be
not more than thirty (30) days, and I would like to honor the Police Commission
Chairman's request, but I want to underline not more than thirty (30) days. They
have a special meeting in thirteen (13) days, they may be sending us a
communication after that, so on that I would like to ask you to honor this deferral.
Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: I did not comment on this at all because I
still think there are moving pieces that we are not privy to and maybe should not
be, but I just want to make sure that we are posting this correctly because I am
reading this letter from the Police Commission and it is saying we want this money
for a declaratory ruling, but the posting says to get an opinion. And so...
Chair Furfaro: And there is the conflict.
Mr. Bynum: It is just a technical question about whether
we should be receiving this item and reposting with different language, that is a
question.
COUNCIL MEETING 139 MARCH 14, 2012
Chair Furfaro: So we can do either. I want to make sure
that a deferral has precedent. Did we have a motion for a deferral and a second? No.
We had no motions because we would not be having this dialogue if we did. Again
both Mr. Bynum and Mr. Rapozo has picked up on the narrative problems that we
are having. In principle we have the request from the Commission not more than
thirty (30) days. Vice Chair.
Ms. Yukimura: I am just asking if we want to honor the
Police Commission at this time. Can we still defer it for one (1) week or whatever it
is just so that it is on the agenda? Maybe it is not a deferral and maybe it is a
reposting. Just so that we are poised to act in case things change, in case they come
to us and say we have had a meeting, we actually want to move this or that, at least
it is on the agenda. We can still defer further if that is in the moment that is what
we should do, but we also have the option and do not have to wait for another
reposting.
Chair Furfaro: And we also have the option within two (2)
weeks to post a new item too regardless of the deferral.
Ms. Yukimura: That is correct. I do think obtaining a legal
opinion or obtaining a declaratory judgment are two (2) different things.
Chair Furfaro: They are two (2) different things and I want
to make sure that the commissioners understand what they are asking the money
for. What clarifies this would be getting a court to define for us the interpretation.
What they are asking for is, in my opinion, another attorney to give a legal opinion.
Now the item I want to know on is are we going to honor the request for the deferral
at this point, which we have in writing from the Police Commission Chair for not
more than a thirty (30) day deferral? Am I going to get a motion.
Ms. Nakamura: I have a question.
Chair Furfaro: Go right ahead.
Ms. Nakamura: Are we going into Executive Session to
discuss this matter?
Chair Furfaro: No. If we defer it, it comes up in not more
than thirty (30) days yet to be determined by the Chair. If inside of two (2) weeks,
we want to post a new item; we can post a new item.
Ms. Yukimura: Question to follow -up Councilmember
Nakamura's question.
COUNCIL MEETING 140 MARCH 14, 2012
Chair Furfaro: Would you yield the floor for a question?
Ms. Nakamura: Yes. If the action is to request a deferral,
that is not what item C 2012 -79 is about.
Chair Furfaro: Yes. But I did not write this request, this is
what we posted on the agenda, this is what the Police Commission sent us.
Ms. Nakamura: I will yield the floor.
Mr. Kuali`i: I think I might try. I think what she is
saying is that in our posted item it says legal opinion and it needs to be reposted as
declaratory ruling. So whether that happens in two (2) weeks or less than thirty
(30) days, then instead of deferring this we should just receive this.
Chair Furfaro: We should receive this and know that we
reserve the right for a new posting anytime within the thirty (30) days as requested
by the Police Commission Chair.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Ms. Esaki: Chair, what you could do is receive it and at
a later date and the commission can submit a new posting language if that would be
easiest for everybody.
Chair Furfaro: I want to make sure that everybody
understands, I am not confused, I am reading what the Police Commission sent us.
Ms. Esaki: We have not seen that, but based on what
was read, for this posting language you might want to receive it and allow time for
it to be either resubmitted as is written or in a new language.
The meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows:
Mr. Bynum moved to receive C 2012 -79 for the record, seconded by
Mr. Kuali`i.
Chair Furfaro: There is a motion to receive and a second,
and everybody has a copy of the Commission Chair's correspondence. If not, I will
give you one (1). The floor recognizes Mr. Rapozo.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
COUNCIL MEETING 141 MARCH 14, 2012
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you. Amy what was the request from
the Commission, the original request?
Ms. Esaki: I will have to defer to Jennifer on that.
JENNIFER WINN, DEPUTY COUNTY ATTORNEY: The original
request is as posted.
Mr. Rapozo: Just that they wanted a legal opinion?
Ms. Winn: Correct.
Mr. Rapozo: Would it be appropriate for us as a Council
to approve the request and also authorize the commission to seek a declaratory
judgment if they so choose using this language? If we approve this, they retain
special counsel; I do not understand why that special counsel could not as part of
obtaining a legal opinion seek a declaratory judgment.
Ms. Winn: What you authorize is up to you as obviously
the Council. At this point in time they have not requested anything other than a
legal opinion.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay. But would it be appropriate for this
Council let us say if I made a motion to approve the request as submitted for
$10,000.00 to retain special counsel to represent the Police Commission in obtaining
a legal opinion as to Charter Section 7.05A and 11.04 and related matters, and also
to authorize the Police Commission to seek a declaratory judgment should they so
desire?
Ms. Winn: My only concern would be Sunshine Law. As
posted, it is for one (1) particular item. There could be an issue of whether the
public had knowledge that that is what this item was going to be about.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay. So you are suggesting the language
that it would include the declaratory judgment?
Ms. Winn: For posting I think that would be smart.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay.
Chair Furfaro: For a new posting?
Mr. Rapozo: Yes.
COUNCIL MEETING 142 MARCH 14, 2012
Chair Furfaro: I want to make sure that this correspondence
is asking for a deferral, which further complicates the Sunshine Law.
Ms. Winn: I understand.
The meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: So we have a motion to receive this at this
time and a second.
The motion to receive C 2012 -79 for the record was then put, and
unanimously carried.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much. May I have the
County Attorney up.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Ms. Esaki: Council Chair, were you considering
deferring the item on the ES -532 or are you going to proceed with that? ES -532
regarding the fees for the bus fare.
Chair Furfaro: I had thought we were doing a deferral on
that. That was a deferral on...
Ms. Esaki: ES -532.
Chair Furfaro: Yes, that was the intent.
Ms. Yukimura: Point of clarification. So this is the second
opinion?
Ms. Esaki: This is the second opinion and we were going
to have a consultation before you release.
Ms. Yukimura: And then look to release both of the
opinions?
Ms. Esaki: Right. I am just asking because it was
mentioned earlier.
Chair Furfaro: Let me make sure I understand, the deferral
was made earlier because Council Vice Chair was not going to be here.
COUNCIL MEETING 143 MARCH 14, 2012
Ms. Esaki: Right.
Chair Furfaro: So the world has changed.
Ms. Esaki: So we are proceeding, that is fine.
Chair Furfaro: The world has changed. Do you want to
pursue it?
Ms. Yukimura: It will take probably five (5) minutes, so why
not we do it then.
Chair Furfaro: So that we are all clear, at the time Vice
Chair had asked to be excused from the evening session but she is here now so we
will take that off. Then the answer to your question is yes we are going to deal with
it so please address it in your narrative. Thank you.
Ms. Esaki: We would like to request to go into Executive
Session on:
EXECUTIVE SESSION:
ES -530 Pursuant to HRS sections 92 -4, 92- 5(a)(4), and section 3.07(e) of
the Kaua`i County Charter, the Office of the County Attorney requests an executive
session with the Council to provide the Council with a briefing on the retention of
special counsel for a limited purpose regarding the claim against the County by
Shane N. Matias, filed on June 2, 2010 and related matters. The briefing and
consultation involves consideration of the powers, duties, privileges, immunities,
and /or liabilities of the Council and the County as they relate to this agenda item.
ES -532 Pursuant to Hawai`i Revised Statutes Sections 92 -4, 92- 5(a)(4),
and Kaua`i County Charter Section 3.07(E), the Office of the County Attorney, on
behalf of the Council, requests an executive session for Council to consult with the
County Attorney regarding the Council's release of the County Attorney's written
legal opinion dated February 16, 2012, regarding Bill No. 2427 Relating to Bus
Fares and related matters. This briefing and consultation involves the consideration
of the powers, duties, privileges, immunities and /or liabilities of the Council and the
County as they relate to this agenda item.
ES -533 Pursuant to HRS sections 92 -4, 92- 5(a)(4), and section 3.07(e) of
the Kaua`i County Charter, the Office of the County Attorney requests an executive
session with the Council to provide the Council with a briefing on the retention of
special counsel to provide legal counsel for the County regarding development of the
landfill and related matters. The briefing and consultation involves consideration of
the powers, duties, privileges, immunities, and /or liabilities of the Council and the
County as they relate to this agenda item.
COUNCIL MEETING 144 MARCH 14, 2012
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as
follows:
Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much. It is to be noted that
after we review this item we will be required to come out and take a vote in open
session. For the benefit of Ho`ike, you need to be on call around the building when
we come out of that session. Amy, thank you very much because it has been a long
day.
ES -531 Pursuant to HRS sections 92 -4, 92- 5(a)(4), and section 3.07(e) of
the Kaua`i County Charter, the Office of the County Attorney requests an executive
session with the Council to provide the Council with a briefing on the retention of
special counsel to represent the Police Commission in obtaining a legal opinion as to
charter Sections 7.05A and 11.04 and related matters. The briefing and consultation
involves consideration of the powers, duties, privileges, immunities, and /or
liabilities of the Council and the County as they relate to this agenda item:
Mr. Rapozo moved to receive ES -531 for the record, seconded by Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Rapozo: We did not cover ES -531 and we did not take
action on that. We did the communication which was C 2012 -79 but we did not do
ES -531. I guess I would ask if any of the Councilmembers had a desire to ask the
Attorneys any questions pertaining to the Police Commission issue. If there is no
desire, that is fine, I have some questions.
Chair Furfaro: I think my position was that since we were
going to look at posting a new item that this item would not come up today. So I will
take your lead on posing the question, we do not necessarily need to do this now,
but until we repost, members your choice.
The motion to receive ES -531 for the record was then put, and
carried.
Mr. Rapozo moved to convene in executive session for ES -530,
ES -533, seconded by Ms. Yukimura, and carried by the following vote:
FOR CONVENING IN EXECUTIVE SESSION: Bynum, Chang,
Kuali`i, Nakamura, Rapozo, Yukimura, Furfaro
AGAINST CONVENING IN EXECUTIVE SESSION: None
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None
unanimously
ES -532, and
TOTAL — 7,
TOTAL — 0,
TOTAL— 0.
There being no objections, the meeting was in recess at 8:42 p.m.
The meeting was called back to order at 10:14 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: I want to take a moment of personal
privilege to thank Lyle and Larry for all their fine work recently through this very
disastrous period of time with roads going out and flooding. I think I had an
opportunity to thank you ealier, but neither of you were in the building. I think you
were out shoveling mud somewhere. But gentlemen, on behalf of the County
Council, I just want to thank Public Works Engineering for your fine effort in
responding to our needs. Everything is not perfect yet, but we are constantly
making improvements thank to your help. Vice Chair Yukimura.
COUNCIL MEETING 145 MARCH 14, 2012
Ms. Yukimura: I second the motion and if you could convey
to your road crews and all the people out there on the front lines, because they
really did a valiant job and we are proud of them and very thankful.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
LARRY DILL, COUNTY ENGINEER: I appreciate the words of thanks and
we will be sure to pass that on to the guys that deserve all the credit, the guys that
were on the front lines out there in the rain, Public Works roads crew, our
wastewater crews responded to huge amounts of water entering the wastewater
systems, our engineering guys also did a lot of support. Those three (3) divisions in
particular deserve a lot of the credit, so I will be sure we pass that on. Thank you
very much.
Chair Furfaro: Members any more comments? Mr. Chang.
Mr. Chang: Thank you. I was just going to echo and say
thank you and I know it was a great learning experience for you, but it was nice to
know that on the Ha'ena side of Hanalei where you have several employees, they
were able to deploy.
Mr. Dill: Three (3) employees.
Mr. Chang: Correct. They were able to deploy because
the State guys could not get in, so the County people were able to help the State
people out there where they would normally not be able to get any reach. To the
three (3) and the equipment and everything else, what a great blessing. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: And so noted with the Engineering Head
when you said several employees he quickly corrected you, because several is more
than four (4), a few is three (3). Can I just ask to give you a round of applause in
appreciation. Thank you. We are back in session to take action on two (2) items,
item C 2012 -67.
The meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows:
C 2012 -67 Request (02/23/2012) from the Office of the County Attorney for
authorization to expend funds up to $50,000.00 to retain special counsel to provide
legal counsel for the County regarding development of the landfill and related
matters: Mr. Chang moved to approve C 2012 -67, seconded by Mr. Bynum.
Chair Furfaro: May I have discussion. Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: Unfortunately I will not be able to support
this allocation for the $50,000.00. I am concerned that, I think as you see the next
item come up, there is a scope, an estimate, the total cost will be, I am still unclear
as to why we need to hire an attorney, a special counsel attorney. I understand we
discussed a lot of the issues in Executive Session, but I came out of there still
unclear of what this attorney would be needed for, and more troubling was the
failure to put some sort of ballpark figure on it. I just cannot support any allocation
without some sort of assurance that it is going to be within a ballpark figure at the
end of the day, so I will not be supporting the appropriations.
Chair Furfaro: Vice Chair.
COUNCIL MEETING 146 MARCH 14, 2012
Ms. Yukimura: I am not going to support the appropriation
either. I am not sure that we need it. We are hiring a firm for $1.8 million that is
supposed to be an expert in doing an EIS. Actually, I also have a larger problem
with it and that is the credibility of the whole project and how it is being managed,
and I do not feel comfortable appropriating more money when I do not have the
confidence that the project is being well managed.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: We have to site a landfill, we have to, we
have had to for a long time, we had a solid waste plan that the Council adopted, we
are behind schedule on almost every aspect of that plan. When we adopted that
plan we all talked about a sense of urgency and how important this was for the
County to get this done. One (1) of the reasons is we could do an expansion of the
Kekaha Landfill, but we did not want to go any higher, no more higher landfill. Now
because of delays we are absolutely counting on going higher with that landfill
which has added to our cost enormously, we all wanted to avoid that, I am very
upset that we have not. But now that is it, we have no other options. Then it's like
okay bail it in bundles and ship it to Arizona; it is irresponsible. This project is the
biggest project; siting a landfill or a nuclear power plant is the hardest thing to do
in the world. We need to make sure we get it done right and get it done properly.
Our County Attorney along with Public Works has come to us and said we have got
a team, we are solid, we are working really hard, we meet weekly. The County
Attorney has made it clear that he is responsible for this and is providing oversight
with his Deputy, and they are all coming to this Council and saying we want to hire
the best attorney about EIS in the State that we can get to make sure that we are
dotting all the "i" and crossing all of the "t." Maybe we do not need that, but if they
catch one (1) thing, it could be a wording disaster. I cannot believe we are even
suggesting that. $50,000.00 is less than three percent (3 %) of the cost of the $1.8
million we are spending with this fancy firm AECOM. Our people are coming to us
and saying help us make sure we get it right, give us the expertise we need, I
cannot believe we are even discussing it. I support this one - hundred percent (100 %),
we have to have five (5) votes here tonight, we have already had two (2) people say
no. I have never done this before, but I am begging you, I think the Chair did that
once before. Let us give these folks this extra level of oversight to make sure we do
not hit a disastrous wall. If we are uncomfortable about the management, that
would just argue more for this kind of expert oversight. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. If there is nobody else that wants
to speak the first time, Councilwoman Nakamura.
Ms. Nakamura: I want to echo the comments of
Councilmember Bynum. This is the largest CIP project for this County. It is a time
sensitive project. The Department of Public Works leadership is stepping up to the
plate and being personally involved in implementing this project. The County
Attorney has told us that it does not have the expertise in EIS and (inaudible) laws
and I believe that this is a good insurance. The funding is in the County Attorney,s
budget, and so I think the allocation of the funds is a good insurance policy that we
conduct the process in a legally defensible way. So I will be supporting this request.
Chair Furfaro: Any more commentary? I do want you to
know that as Chairman, I would very much appreciate getting us to five (5) votes
for this, and also a condition of having some kind of briefing from the special
COUNCIL MEETING 147 MARCH 14, 2012
counsel within sixty (60) or ninety (90) days into this process would be mutually
beneficial. I think Mr. Bynum said it correctly, it is a very big project that we want
to make sure we do not stub our toes in the process. Mr. Chang or Mr. Kuali`i, did
you want to speak?
Mr. Kuali`i: Thank you Mr. Chair. I was not satisfied
with my answer about AECOM and I thought that as a part of the initial
negotiations in contracting AECOM and being that they were the best in the
Country and the world, I think as it might have been said, that if I had some kind of
more information about why it is necessary beyond them guaranteeing their work
that they are providing for us. I think there was talk about how the game is
evolving, but where is the numbers that show me that when a County or a State or
another entity hires AECOM to do their EIS, ninety percent (90 %) of the time that
entity also gets special counsel because it needs to ensure the work that AECOM
does. If they showed me that number, I could support this; without that, if the
number was five percent (5 %) or ten percent (10 %), then it seems like we are just
wasting $50,000.00 in my opinion. That they will do the work they need to do and it
will be legally defensible and if the numbers show me that, then I can be sure that
the $50,000.00 will be a waste or the opposite; if they show me that it is necessary
and it has been done by all other entities, or eighty percent (80 %) or ninety percent
(90 %) of other entities who hire AECOM, then I could support it. Without that
information tonight I will not support it.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Chang, you are the only one (1) that did
not get to speak the first time.
Mr. Chang: Thank you. Well I guess we can pretty much
count the numbers. However, I would like to say that the money again is coming
from the County Attorney's Office. I believe that they have done a very, very good
job by not seeking as much outside counsel as was done much more in the past. We
have saved a lot of money. I do not know if I am exaggerating, but upwards to
maybe $1 million or so that was saved because we used the expertise of our County
Attorneys in- house. Quite frankly, the job of the Public Works led by Larry Dill and
Lyle Tabata, they seem to have things in their busy schedule pretty much under
control, and along with our County Attorney, if they are assuring us that we are on
the right track and they are telling us and recommending strongly to us that we
support the $50,000.00, I think it is $50,000.00 well spent and it is needed to move
forward. I think that is going without question. I too would, I do not want to say
recommend, advise, or plead, but being that we need a super majority vote, I think
we should give our new sheriffs in town, if you will, Mr. Dill and Mr. Tabata and
our County Attorney, I think we should give them the benefit of the doubt and
obviously we can always get reports back albeit ninety (90) days. I am definitely
going to be supporting this $50,000.00 and I think it is something that I think at
this point needs to be done, and we need to count on this outside expertise to assist
this County. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you Mr. Chang. Vice Chair Yukimura
then Mr. Rapozo.
Ms. Yukimura: Councilmember Bynum has said that we are
behind schedule on every aspect of the Integrated Solid Waste Management Plan,
he has also said that we are having to raise the landfill when that was never
anticipated, all of these are signs that we are not managing our Solid Waste
Division well. The Public Works leadership is having to step -up to oversee this
COUNCIL MEETING 148 MARCH 14, 2012
project because it is not being managed well. I do not think that $50,000.00 in legal
counsel is going to solve the main problem. I think drastic action is necessary to
send a message to the Administration that they have to fix the core problem so that
we can have a successful landfill, that is my goal, same as yours, Councilmember
Bynum. But we are not going that way right now, and if we want to go that way, we
have to fix the main problem.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you. I guess I could not agree with
you more. I think there is some serious systemic problems, I guess is the way you
call it. I keep hearing the number $50,000.00; it is not $50,000.00. $50,000.00 is
what is being asked for. There is no commitment, no assurance of how much this
endeavor is going to cost. So just make sure that we understand that if it was
$50,000.00, I would support it today. If I knew that $50,000.00 was going to cover it
for a short term contract to give us advice, I would support it because I do agree
that $50,000.00 is a small price to pay if we can get the assurance. I have to again
like Mr. KipuKai Kuali`i said $1.5 million or $1.8 million for this firm to do this EIS
and then we have to hire $300.00 or $400.00 or $500.00 an hour attorneys to make
sure they are doing it right, I think is not proper. And then the bigger issue I have
and it's, last year we saw the restructuring of the Administration, we saw the
addition of an Environmental Services Manager, we saw an addition of a CIP
Manager, we see all these high -level positions in the Administration, we went
through this in the last budget to focus and target these specific types of projects,
and it is not being done. And then they come to us and say hey we need money, we
do not know how much, it may be a lot it, we do not know...
Chair Furfaro: I just want to take a moment to caution us
about the item that is on the agenda. I understand your concerns about the
expanded staffing levels and so forth, but quite honestly, I think we need to focus on
the item that is on the table, which is an approval of $50,000.00 for special counsel
which would give us a report sixty (60) to ninety (90) days out versus the dialog of
performance issues related to the expanded staffing levels. I am a little concerned.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay. I will end there then.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Before I call for the vote, is there
any opportunity, I mean I can count what is happening here, but is there anybody
that would reconsider the fact that if we entered into the $50,000.00 agreement for
the legal consultation that there is some reassurance that within sixty (60) or
ninety (90) days we have an opportunity here from this legal counsel and know
what the long -term prospects are of that either growing or knowing exactly where
we are. Is there anyone willing to reconsider at this point if we had that briefing
two (2) months into this process? Vice Chair Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: I just want to say that the $50,000.00 is not
going to solve the main problem.
Chair Furfaro: I heard you say that.
Ms. Yukimura: And that is why I do not want to throw good
money after bad. But I will reconsider if we get some response from the
Administration to address the problems I am seeing.
COUNCIL MEETING 149 MARCH 14, 2012
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Bynum and then Mr. Chang.
Mr. Bynum: I will just take one (1) more shot at this. We
heard that we are at a critical juncture where a portion of this document is going to
be finalized soon, that this initial funds will definitely give an opportunity for the
special counsel to look at the work that has been done thus far. I feel pretty strong
about this because I am really concerned about how dire the consequences are if we
mess up here, we are right up against the wall and there is nowhere else to go. And
so I will make a commitment that I will not vote for the next $50,000.00 if we get
this one (1), if they come back. Even if it is limited to this $50,000.00 it is going to
provide what our managers asked for, a critical look at this, a comprehensive look
at work thus far at a fairly critical junction. I will do cartwheels if, I do not think I
can, but I think this is important, I really do. I avoided many times on this Council
coming back and saying I told you so, as I know we all have, because we can look
back at the public record and say I told you so, and that does not do anything
productive. I do not want to say I told you so on this one (1).
Chair Furfaro: I am not sure I ever used that term, but your
comments are well received for the structure they are. Mr. Kuali`i.
Mr. Kuali`i: I do not know that anything is ever so
critical and so do- and -die that it could not come back to us in two (2) weeks or four
(4) weeks, and I think that Councilmember Rapozo's concern about specificying
what the $50,000.00 is for in limiting to that $50,000.00 is a good one (1), and they
can come back with that. I think my questions about AECOM's record and history
and the need for entities, government entities that hire AECOM, the history of that
being the evolving, trend or the game or how the game is evolving, that they can get
those numbers and show that to us and get what Mr. Rapozo is asking and show
that to us. Maybe then the vote can be different, but tonight we do not have that.
Chair Furfaro:
Councilwoman Nakamura.
Thank you for your comments.
Ms. Nakamura: Maybe to add on to Councilmember Kuali`i's
comments, if we could get the history of the number of major projects of EIS's that
AECOM has done and their success rates and challenges so that we can
understand their success in producing a defensible EIS. That data might be helpful
to move this forward.
Chair Furfaro: I do not think we are going to influence any
other outcome than what the vote seems to be, so I will call for the vote. Mr. Chang.
Mr. Chang: I would like to say though, I think
Councilmember Yukimura might be perhaps thinking otherwise, but I would like to
say two (2) weeks ago when we had this you shared your concerns, and yes there
was a lot of wrongs in the past and we mentioned that, but listening to our
Engineer Mr. Dill, he had a lot of passion and he spoke compassionately that he is
taking the forefront and the responsibility. It may not be his sole duty, but he is the
head, and Mr. Tabata also echoed the fact that they are on top of it and although
there is an assigned Project Manager, they spoke upon the fact that they are willing
to take the responsibility and so did our County Attorney. But, keeping in mind we
have saved a lot of money, the $50,000.00 is coming from the County Attorney's
coffers, and they have been able to do a lot of work in -house with our own attorneys.
I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt, as Mr. Bynum said. If anyone
COUNCIL MEETING 150 MARCH 14, 2012
were to come back or they would come back for another $50,000.00, he said right off
the bat we will not support it; I do not think any of us would support it, so I am just
going to, let us see where the chips fall, but maybe because "y" is Yukimura, would
be the last of the last, and you can kind of see and maybe something might happen
at the very end.
Chair Furfaro: Okay I do not think we are having discussion
that really is going to change the outcome of what I have heard at the table.
Mr. Rapozo: Let us call for the vote.
Chair Furfaro: I am calling for the vote, can I have a roll call
please.
The motion to approve C 2012 -67 was then put and failed approval by the
following vote:
FOR APROVAL: Bynum, Chang, Nakamura, Furfaro
AGAINST APPROVAL: Kuali`i, Rapozo, Yukimura
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None
Chair Furfaro: Knowing where we are at now, Christiane
Nakea, could I ask that you make a special note of the communication that those
voting no have implied that they would like to hear from the Administration. Those
include comments from Vice Chair Yukimura, Mr. Rapozo, as well as
Councilmember Kuali`i. So a 4 -3 vote, the allocation of this money fails because we
do not have a super majority. Let us go to the next item, I believe it is item
C 2012 -78.
C 2012 -78 Request (03/02/2012) from the Office of the County Attorney, for
authorization to expend funds up to $10,000.00 to retain special counsel for a
limited purpose regarding the claim against County by Shane N. Matias, filed on
June 2, 2010 and related matters: Ms. Yukimura moved to approve, seconded by
Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Rapozo: I just have a really quick comment.
Chair Furfaro: Go ahead.
TOTAL — 4,
TOTAL — 3,
TOTAL — 0,
TOTAL — 0.
Mr. Rapozo: I know Jennifer left, but I just want to say
that contrary to the prior item, this item was well defined, the scope was well
defined, and the narrative for the purpose of these funds were very clear. I have no
problem supporting this allocation. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: May I thank you for your compliment
directed at the County Attorney's Office and Jennifer; I concur, she did an excellent
job of briefing. May I call now for a roll call vote.
The motion to approve C 2012 -78 was then put, and carried by the following
vote:
COUNCIL MEETING 151 MARCH 14, 2012
FOR APPROVAL: Bynum, Chang, Kuali`i, Nakamura, Rapozo,
Yukimura, Furfaro
AGAINST APPROVAL: None
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None
TOTAL — 7,
TOTAL — 0,
TOTAL — 0,
TOTAL — 0.
Chair Furfaro: I believe that ends our business of the
Council today. I want to thank everybody for a full day of work. We are now
adjourned.
ADJOURNMENT.
There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 10:38 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
/il
RICKY WATANABE
County Clerk