HomeMy WebLinkAbout09/06/2012 Special Council Meeting - Workshop COUNCIL WORKSHOP
SEPTEMBER 6, 2012
The Council Workshop of the Council of the County of Kaua`i was called to
order by the Council Chair at the Council Chambers, 4396 Rice Street, Room 201,
Lihu`e, Kaua`i, on Thursday, September 6, 2012 at 9:10 a.m., after which the
following members answered the call of the roll:
Honorable Tim Bynum
Honorable Dickie Chang
Honorable Nadine K. Nakamura
Honorable KipuKai Kuali`i
Honorable JoAnn A. Yukimura
Honorable Jay Furfaro
Excused: Honorable Mel Rapozo
Council Chair Furfaro: Aloha and good morning. I am very pleased
to call to order a County Workshop for Thursday, September 6. In particular,
reviewing the notice of agenda, we have presentations from both Planning and
Public Works personnel. I would also like to make note that I do have a special
excuse letter from Mr. Rapozo, who is unable to attend this workshop on Complete
Streets due to a prior commitment. Let the record note his excuse letter has been
received.
This is a Council workshop scheduled to discuss: (1) Complete Streets update;
and (2) planning for livable street design, place-making, form-based coding, and
street typologies with Gary Toth, Senior Director, Transportation Initiatives, for the
Project for Public Spaces.
The workshop proceeded as follows:
BEV BRODY, Get-Fit Kaua`i Coordinator: Good morning Council Chair,
Vice-Chair, and County Councilmembers. My name is Bev Brody and I am the Get
Fit Kaua`i Coordinator for the island of Kaua`i. Get Fit Kaua`i is the Nutrition and
Physical Activity Coalition for the island of Kaua`i. We have several task forces.
One of them is the Built Environment Task Force and we are here to give a
required update to the Council on our Complete Streets efforts. Our last update
was in April. Since then we have done a lot of work and I am really proud of our
team. We have completed a Performance Measures Report of which you all have a
copy of. This report is going to give us a baseline for the County to see how we are
improving on our Complete Streets efforts in the future. This took several months
to complete. The other thing that we have done was actually taken several hours,
months, to prepare for this particular workshop that you are going to be seeing
today. The Healthy Hawaiian Initiative, Get Fit Kaua`i, has funded a three day
Complete Streets Policy Implementation Workshop for the County staff. Planning
and Public Works have been preparing for this workshop which is scheduled for
right now, where it is happening. It is led by Transportation Engineer Expert Gary
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COUNCIL WORKSHOP SEPTEMBER 6, 2012
Toth. We have also done the completion of the Complete Streets Evaluation
Checklist for the six-year C.I.P. and we are anticipating that this checklist will be
used in this coming year. Another very exciting update is that we have completed a
Draft Subdivision Amendment which supports our Complete Streets efforts. The
draft has been completed and it is in the approval process now. Hopefully we will
be bringing it to Council sometime in the very near future.
Council Chair Furfaro: Bev, on that note, may I ask, it is being
presented and maybe Planning can answer this question. Is this example of
subdivision criteria to be changed, is that in the Planning Department Subdivision
Committee right now or is it in front of the full Planning Commission?
MARIE WILLIAMS, Long Range Planner: No, it has not gotten that
far. It is still undergoing the final phases of internal review.
Council Chair Furfaro: Okay. Thank you. Continue, Bev.
Ms. Brody: The other thing that we have completed
since we met with you last is Lyle continues to get his internal Complete Streets
workgroup together as we are going through the L.A. Living Streets Manual
chapter, by chapter. We have just completed chapter 10. We meet once a month, so
we have been meeting for ten months and we have just completed chapter 10 and
hope to have that completed by the end of this year. I think we have done a lot of
work since we last spoke. I am very proud of our team.
Council Chair Furfaro: Can we go to Planning for some opening
comments from Marie and then go to Engineering.
Ms. Williams: Marie Williams from Planning. I do not have
too much to add to what Bev said except that I just want to acknowledge the work
that Get Fit Kaua`i does. Our Built Environment Task Force also gets all
departments and staff together with members in our community who are interested
in this and make sure that every month we work on some element of our action
plan. I think that we have done a good job at moving some of our action items
forward such as completing our Performance Measures Report. It is great because
it is a forum for everyone who works together and contributes, so the report before
you is not just the effort of one person or one agency, but of many different people
working together and contributing their knowledge and expertise.
LYLE TABATA, Deputy County Engineer: Just to touch a little bit
on our progress with the Living Streets Manual, we are calling it the Kauai County
Living Streets Manual. It is an edited version of the L.A. County Living Streets
Manual. We have been taking a chapter a month and editing everything to fit our
needs here on Kaua`i. As Bev mentioned, we have completed ten chapters so that
means it has been ten months since we started. We have five more to go. The next
three chapters are primarily Planning Department driven, and for the final chapter,
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COUNCIL WORKSHOP SEPTEMBER 6, 2012
we will give it to Bev to craft our Communications plan. We are done with ten of
fifteen and these are exciting times for Public Works. Engineering has had to
evolve. We have had all of our members from the various Public Works Divisions as
well as Planning, work hand-in-hand and step together to create the manual. In
addition, part of Complete Streets is our Safe Routes to School Program. We have
presently nine and we will call it Right-Sizing Projects. The previous language that
we used was Road Diets and Gary Toth helped us see the vision. I adapted and we
changed the name as he calls it, to Right-Sizing. We have nine projects out there
that we are actively working with the elementary schools and three retrofit projects
that we will use C.I.P. Funds and State Highway D.O.T. S.T.I.P Funds to produce.
Those are all in the works and we have got some exciting times ahead of us. Lastly,
I will put a plug-in for Marie. Marie and I are sitting on a statewide update
meeting at H.C.P.O. next Friday. We will be giving out a presentation.
Council Chair Furfaro: Terrific. Mr. Chang, do you have a question?
Mr. Chang: Thank you. Good morning, Lyle. For the
benefits of layman's term, for the audience and viewing audience, when we talk
about S.T.I.P. or C.I.P. or H.C.P.O., can we let everybody know what we are talking
about because that flies through people.
Mr. Tabata: Okay. So the C.I.P. is our County Capital
Improvement Program, and the Council put money aside for planning, designing,
and construction for Kawaihau Road. That is actively in the procurement process
for our consultant. When we say S.T.I.P., it is for the State Transportation
Improvement Plan, which is federally funded so we are going to leverage the federal
funds, 80/20 funding, to pull-off two other projects that we are soon to start, which
is also in the procurement process for professional service. Lastly, the H.C.P.O. is
the...
Ms. Williams: Hawai`i Congress of Planning Officials
Conference. It is the annual statewide planning conference.
Council Chair Furfaro: Marie, may I comment one more time. The
Planning Department did an excellent job in hosting that conference this past year.
The entire Council wants to thank you. Vice-Chair Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: I just had a question. Did you mention the
Legislation that got passed as one of your accomplishments?
Ms. Brody: No, I did not. But I think that is a very good
idea. This was truly miraculous that Safe Routes to School fine based fines that are
going to--they have started. It starts September 1, and there is a surcharge on all
traffic violations, $10.00. And $25.00 if you are caught in a school zone. That
money is going to come back. If you get stopped speeding here on Kaua`i, that
money will stay on Kauai and same goes for all the other islands. That money
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COUNCIL WORKSHOP SEPTEMBER 6, 2012
needs to be used for Safe Routes to School things such as sidewalks, coordinator,
bike paths, or something that is going to make it safer for children to walk and bike
to school. Representative Derek Kawakami introduced it. We rounded the troops,
educated people on the benefits of this, and it passed on July 10. The Governor
signed the bill. That is another huge move in the right direction for us.
Ms. Yukimura: And if I may, Chair?
Council Chair Furfaro: Yes, go ahead.
Ms. Yukimura: Congratulations for that excellent work, both
to our Kaua`i Delegation, led by Representative Kawakami, but also to the
grassroots work that sent all the emails in support because it really took that kind
of broad support to accomplish what you did in such a short amount of time. Thank
you to all of you and to all the Committees and those who helped.
Ms. Brody: Thank you.
Council Chair Furfaro: Bev, on that note, my congratulations as
well. But there is something that I want you to be aware of. I sent a question to
g Y q
Representative Kawakami's office that deals with the responsibility for the audit
trail on the collection of these funds. And I think the Planning Department needs
to be involved because as a bill, these earmarked portions of the fines--it would be
very good for us to have a quarterly update on how Kaua`i's portion is being isolated
in what account and what is the audit trail.
Ms. Brody: Excellent.
Council Chair Furfaro: Just so that you know, that communication
has gone over. Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: Thank you all for being here. Thanks for all
of the great effort over the last few years. I have a couple specific questions...
Council Chair Furfaro: I am going to turn the meeting over to the
Planning Department if you can hold that and she could recognize you. Does that
work? I just wanted to get through the formalities. Mr. Bynum, you plan to have
the presentation first before questions or did you want to ask the questions?
Mr. Bynum: Either way.
Council Chair Furfaro: Okay. I will leave that up to Chairwoman
Nakamura. You need to coordinate your presenters through the Planning
Committee Chair which is Councilwoman Nakamura so I am turning over the
meeting to her. You have the meeting and you have the mallet.
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COUNCIL WORKSHOP SEPTEMBER 6, 2012
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you. So Councilmember Bynum, you
are going to ask your question then the presentation will follow.
Mr. Bynum: If it is better to do the presentation first, I
am fine with that but it is about some of the things you said. Lyle, you mentioned
three retrofit projects and you mentioned Kawaihau. I believe the second one is
Hardy Street and the third is?
Mr. Tabata: Hanapep5 Road. So we are going to
Junction 50 to Junction 50 with Hanapepe Road and hopefully, what we will be
doing will—and you will see some of what we call place making in Gary Toth's
presentation and that is our vision. To see some of what he puts out, and that is the
vision and hope to accomplish revitalization and I know everybody knows about the
situation in Hanapep5 on Friday night, art night. We hope that will also allow the
whole community to work and live together and be able to embrace the concepts.
Mr. Bynum: Great. Thank you. Then I had a question.
In the spirit of full disclosure, it was a monumental thing to pass the Complete
Streets Ordinance but it currently has a cap on it. As I recall, this ordinance has
$10.00 surcharge and a higher surcharge if you are in a school zone. And that will
generate, I believe, millions of dollars, but in its current form only $250,000.00 of
that will go to Complete Streets activities, correct?
Ms. Brody: Safe Routes to School activities.
Mr. Bynum: Right. So have we identified who is going to
introduce it to Legislation this year to raise that cap?
Ms. Brody: We are currently organizing a group. I have
been in touch with Representative Kawakami's office and I trust their advice by just
allowing them to see what happens during the first few months of this and let them
figure it out. Then from that point, we have every intention of again, recruiting
people to educate lawmakers on the benefits of removing or increasing that cap, to
have a minimum of 50% of the entire funds go to Safe Routes to School.
Mr. Bynum: So the expectations would be Legislation
(inaudible)?
Ms. Brody: I would say yes. That is what I say but I also
understand that things take a very long time which can be sometimes a little
frustrating. From my point of view, I am letting the Representative Kawakami's
office take the lead on this, so to speak, and inform us on what would be the best
actions for us to take.
Mr. Bynum: If I can make just one or two comments.
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COUNCIL WORKSHOP SEPTEMBER 6, 2012
Ms. Brody: Yes, sure.
Mr. Bynum: I think the Legislature created a difficult
position for themselves because they create traffic fees, raising considerable
amounts of money in the name of, and saying publically that this is for pedestrian
improvements in Complete Streets. Yet, the vast majority of the funding was going
to the general public. So, I think advocates for you folks will have a probable
argument when they realize your intended outcomes. For me, removal of that cap is
the right route to go, not the 50% reduction. If we are going to say this then let us
do it. I will continue to monitor that in Legislation and advocate it as many of us
did.
Ms. Brody: Yes. Thank you, both to Councilmember
Yukimura and yourself for submitting testimony. It definitely was great.
Mr. Bynum: Thank you.
Ms. Nakamura: Chair Furfaro.
Council Chair Furfaro: Thank you, Committee woman. Please also
note that you should work with KipuKai. As Mr. Bynum implied, many of us did do
some lobbying on that work for you. We will come up with a legislative package.
The Council will be introducing that and it should be something that should also be
reflected in our package, direct from the Council and to the legislative body as one
of those pieces that we would like to endorse.
Ms. Brody: Excellent.
Council Chair Furfaro: I would take Mr. Bynum's recommendation
and incorporate it into Mr. Kuali`i's committee of Intergovernmental Relations.
Thank you.
Ms. Brody: When do you want to meet?
Ms. Nakamura: If there are no other questions, we can go
right into the presentation.
Ms. Brody: Okay.
GARY TOTH, Director of Transportation Initiatives with the Project for
Public Spaces: My name is Gary Toth and I am the Director
of Transportation Initiatives with the Project for Public Spaces.
Council Chair Furfaro: Thank you.
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COUNCIL WORKSHOP SEPTEMBER 6, 2012
Ms. Brody: I would like to introduce him, but I guess he
just did. It gives me a great deal of pleasure to introduce to you Mr. Gary Toth who
has been an expert Transportation Engineer for over 39 years. I know it is hard to
believe. Look at him. He had worked with places like New York, Canada, Dubai,
and has been all over the world helping people, also governments, government
agencies, communities, and transportation agencies to collaborate and come up with
sustainable solutions to their issues. We are very fortunate to have him with us
here. As we move forward, that timing could not be better. As we move forward
with our Complete Streets efforts here on Kaua`i, it is very exciting to have him
here and I would like to introduce to you, even though he has introduced himself to
you already. It gives me a great deal of pleasure to introduce Mr. Gary Toth.
Mr. Toth: Thank you, Bev. Let me start by saying that
I could not be happier to be here on the island of Kauai and it is not just because it
is probably the most beautiful place that I have ever been to. The people here are
beautiful also. I do a lot of work, as Bev pointed out, around the world and around
the Country and I cannot think of another place where you have a collection of
talent and energy and commitment to changing things that you do here. You have a
cross-section, you have folks in your professional staff like Larry, and Lyle, and
Mike who I understand is in Detroit. I met Ka`aina from the staff and Marie from
the Planning side. So, you are starting, most places where the engineers do not talk
too much to the planners, and here you have them working side by side. I met
JoAnn and Tim on a bus tour led by Dan Burden when we were in North Carolina.
I understand everybody on the Council feels very much the same way, so you are all
committed to it and you have good advocacy here. You also have non-profit
organizations and I met a host of your citizens at H.C.P.O. who were talking about
the same thing. Oftentimes I will go to places and they are just starting and there
is dissention. When you do this kind of work, you want to feel like the people know
that you are contributing, that they will take advantage of it, and I have no doubt
that here on your island that you are going to be able to do this. You have many
assets that a lot of places do not have, and in addition to that collection of energy
and talent that you have, you are an island. So, you have a sense of community
here, much more so than I have seen anywhere else. Part of it I think is because
you are on an island and part of it is because of the nature of your people. Also, I
am just amazed. Last October was my first trip to Hawai`i and your sense of
attachment to the place and respect and reverence for the place, even though like
all of us sometimes, some of us forget that attachment, you still have it there. You
do not find it in a lot of places in the mainland. I am just thrilled to be here and
have been invited to come over.
Let me start by saying that Complete Streets--it is really fantastic that you
are moving towards it. We like to talk about Complete Streets as the foundation for
community building and place making. Complete Streets covers the first part of it,
helps get the streets right, and it helps rebalance the streets. But ultimately, me
being a career transportation engineer—and you guys recognize it because you have
adopted the L.A. manual as your model for what you are doing, and the L.A.
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COUNCIL WORKSHOP SEPTEMBER 6, 2012
manual does say that we are doing this not just for transportation and mobility, but
we are doing this because we want to make a better Kaua`i. That is something
where we went wrong in the basic transportation system, the system that I came
into in 1973 when I was fresh out of college as a starry-eyed, zealous twenty-two
year old person, who marched against the Vietnam War and railed away against
the Military Industrial Complex. I went into engineering because I wanted to do
community building and very quickly, I was told by my peers, "It is not what we do
here. We are specialized. Our job is to move people from point A to point B." So, I
got co-opted into a culture that—and I have learned later it was all over the
Country. We trained generations of transportation engineers and planners to
simply move people from point A to point B. We divorced ourselves from the higher
goal so it is really good that with your Complete Streets that you are not replicating
the mistake and you recognize that there is a higher goal for this. We want people
biking and walking for a lot of reasons. (Presentation-Gary Toth's Powerpoint is
attached here to as Attachment 1)
As I pointed out, we have been building transportation through communities
and not communities through transportation. That is the karma. That is the
culture that I was brought into. It was not always that way. If we go prior to the
advent of the car, street design had to accommodate all users and streets were
about community building. In fact, if you go back to late 1900's, there was no such
thing as a State Department of Transportation or a Federal Highway
Administration or a U.S.D.O.T. All of the transportation, or streets anyway, were
built by communities and they were built to serve the higher vision because there
was no choice. You could not afford not to do that because you could not afford to be
inefficient with where you place things. In addition streets, even today, are still
one-third of the public space in most communities and they were clearly back then
as well. We designed our streets to multi-task, and that they became great public
spaces. There gatherings, there were places of exchange, shops, or stores.
Everything was there. Then we fell in love with car. I want to say that I am not
anti-car. I do own two cars. I love my car and I love driving around. But the fact
we fell in love with the car freed us from this necessity to think things out carefully
and to think about how we place things. It freed us from the need to use our streets
as public spaces. It allowed us to—we put malls twenty miles down the road and
even became—with everything, whether it was our malls, our pharmacies, our
neighborhoods. We segmented our neighborhoods and all of a sudden there were
not all sorts of people living together. We had subdivisions. It allowed us to put our
schools out of the periphery and increasingly our children do not walk to school. We
tried to cover a lot of our landscape with asphalt. And contrary to popular belief,
New Jersey can be a nice place and there are some very beautiful parts in New
Jersey, but not the parts that we covered with asphalt. It breaks my heart
sometimes to come to places like here and Northern Vermont where you do see
some of the trends where we are starting to cover too much of our beautiful
landscape with asphalt. We stopped viewing streets as places and as the whole
thing was reinforced with the interstate era, you do not have any interstates here or
freeways here. But, we have the whole 50, 60 years worth of professionals being
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COUNCIL WORKSHOP SEPTEMBER 6, 2012
trained under the interstate era, which was a military mission. It started in 1956.
Our President was our ex-Commander in Chief of our military. There were a lot of
people in Government that were all over into military positions and they devised
transportation in the militaristic type approach. You had the Military, the Navy,
the Air Force, and the Infantry. You had the Army division. You had the Artillery.
Everybody was told to just focus in on the objective. The key to success and doing
stuff quickly was to just focus in on your goal and let everybody else worry about it.
That is what we did in transportation. Community building was not our business.
We stuck our head in the sand to unintended consequences and we became very
immune to it. That would have been okay if Congress had invested the same
amount of money in the other aspects of community building than it did in
transportation. But it did not. 90% of the Public Works changes that were made
from 1950 to around the year 2000 was in transportation and that whole system
was oriented towards high speed roads until recently. It just created this imbalance
and if you look around at our landscape, and you do not have too much of it here,
But if you go back to the mainland, it is no surprise. If you think about it that what
you see is a whole built form that is oriented towards high speed travel, there is no
sense of place. We have dealt walking and biking out of it. It just was the natural
result of organizing a profession in a way to achieve unprecedented goals but very,
very narrow goals. So, we stopped looking at the capacity of our streets for all sorts
of things and this is the approach that most transportation engineers around the
Country think, that streets are just for cars. The places, walking, and all sorts of
activities belong somewhere else. We begin to think there is a concept called "Level
of Service." We like to use complicated terms in transportation. I would like to
believe that the folks who invented these terms in the 50's did not do it on purpose
to create a distance between us and our customers, but it certainly did. All this
technology you just heard here. For example, C.I.P. and S.T.I.P. So, what is the
Level of Service? The Level of Service was something--and it made sense when you
were building interstates, when you were asked to build 40,000 miles of high speed
roads and do it in twenty years. The numbers were in the tens of millions that were
invested, even in 1956 dollars. It made sense to come up with a performance metric
that said, "Are we getting the right level of service out of our investment?" So,
Level of Service is a congestion measure. The entire interstate system was sized
using it. People would do travel projections 20 years into the future, anticipating
growth. Then they would decide whether we needed four lanes, six lanes, or eight
lanes between Chicago and St. Louis. This permeated the only performance
measure that we ever used. It led to things like this. I wonder if I could engage you
folks in answering that question: "Is that a successful street?" I know you do not
have anything that looks like that on Kaua`i, not that wide anyway.
Ms. Yukimura: Almost as wide, just brand new.
Mr. Toth: But is it a successful street?
Ms. Yukimura: What is the definition of success?
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Mr. Toth: Well, that is right. Let us tease it out a little
more. Would you say that is successful? Let us think, JoAnn, what some of the
definitions of success could be.
Mr. Kuali`i: No.
Mr. Toth: Okay.
Mr. Chang: I would say, it depends on where you are at.
Mr. Toth: Yes it does.
Mr. Chang: That could look successful in rural America.
But our road, as Vice-Chair Yukimura said, is more a necessity, I believe. That
looks like any place you could go on the mainland. But I think we need ours for the
size that it is at. But this is like—anybody has got that.
Mr. Toth: I want to take this opportunity to say again,
I am not anti-car or anti-big road. I spent 34 years at the New Jersey D.O.T.
Mr. Kuali`i: But is it successful for whom? For the
person driving the car or the person walking? I looked at that and thought of
myself as walking and there is no crosswalk, while it being also a far way to cross.
And seniors with groceries and a cane moving slowly—that would be very
dangerous. Horrendous.
Mr. Toth: Right. JoAnn, were you going to say
something?
Ms. Yukimura: Similar to that, if a successful street moves
cars it is successful. If it moves people efficiently and cost-effectively, it is not
successful. If your goal is to move people, is that the best way?
Mr. Toth: Right, and I think you folks have hit on it.
It depends. Is this successful? It depends on what you are trying to accomplish.
Here, if you are trying to accomplish moving people from point A to point B, on the
surface it may be successful but—at least cars from point A to point B. But we have
dealt pedestrians out of it and bicyclists out of it. We have dealt street life out of it,
street life out of it, and commerce out of it. If you look to the right of the screen, you
can see some buildings moving along—that is downtown Denver trying to expand
outward to accommodate growth. We can see that the ten lane roadway there has
basically channeled it and stopped its natural growth out like an octopus. The
interesting thing about that road is that this was noon time on a Tuesday. So what
it is also saying to us is that we have invested a heck of a lot of money into
something for one hour a day, for one dimension of society. We can get away with
that in the 70's and 80's, right? But now, in the 21st century, we cannot—the era of
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single-purpose public investment is over. We put that kind of money into
something anywhere, then we must make sure that it is helping with health goals
and connecting people with activities. For economics, we want to make sure we can
engender economics. The other irony of this is that quarter mile down that rise is
Interstate 25, and one night at 5 p.m. I tried to go to Boulder. This road was backed
up bumper to bumper. Not because this did not have enough capacity but because
the interstate did not have enough capacity. Nobody even thought about how this
would all fit together. We are going to talk in a little bit, if I could figure out how to
get the internet working. I will show you a little video about what happens if we
speed up everybody at certain points in time and deal out place making and
mobility in a surrounding area. Then they will all pile up at a pinch point. That is
what is happening here. Arguably, this one is not even successful in a
transportation perspective. Would you say that this one is successful?
Council Chair Furfaro: Looks like downtown Hilo.
Mr. Chang: It is Lahaina, I think. Maui.
Ms. Yukimura: Well, it has a lot of people, a lot of use, and a
lot of commerce.
Mr. Chang: Looks like a bus stop. They are waiting for a
bus.
Mr. Toth: I think they just got off the bus.
Mr. Chang: I was going to say that they are looking at
their pamphlets and it says, "Why did we not choose Kaua`i instead?"
Mr. Toth: You may be right.
Mr. Chang: They looked bummed out.
Mr. Toth: Again, it depends. That is the answer. It
depends on what you are trying to accomplish. Here, Front Street accomplishes
different things. It is the center of commerce. It brings a lot of activity to Lahaina
but it causes them some problems in terms of tour buses and taxis. This street has
a different purpose and it is quite successful for that purpose. It is not successful
for moving cars around but then again, it does not have to be. The State highway is
a quarter mile over and if you want to go back in through central Maui, you could
get off Front Street as quickly as possible. What is beginning to emerge from these
pictures is this whole concept of Street Typology. It is moving towards a lot of the
communities around the Country or moving towards figuring out that we need
different streets to make our communities vibrant. We need some streets for
commerce, some for our children's ability to walk to school, and some streets to get
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Larry and Bev home on the other side of the island towards Princeville. We do not
want to slow down the traffic everywhere, so we need a pallet of streets.
Mr. Chang: This street looks like it can be successful and
it is definitely useful because it is going one way towards the wharf. It serves its
purpose because it is going straight down where they catch the whale watch or
Lahaina tour, et cetera. At least it is not jumping back into Front Street. It is
going one direction.
Mr. Toth: Right. It serves multiple purposes right
because people can still get around in their car but the street is tuned to maximize
other societal goals. Again, that is the point. As we look to complete our streets, we
are not going to go in the reverse direction. I was trained to tune every street for
high speed automobile travel so we do not want to turn everything into a 20 mile an
hour, walkable street. We want to balance. Some streets will be tuned for biking
and walking while some streets will be tuned for commerce and some for getting us
around. This next street is Stockton Street, Chinatown, San Francisco. There is
rich and vibrant activity that is going on there. This is a very important street. Is
this sustainable? This whole idea of tuning all of our new streets for moving cars
around? Can we keep doing this? Is it going to help us achieve our goals in the 21st
century? I will toss this back out to you guys.
Mr. Bynum: No, because downtown Kapa'a on a Saturday
night had a real vibrancy but there was a big backup of traffic for people who
wanted to get to the north shore. So, you have got a vibrant town but it does not
meet the needs to move people. If you only go towards moving the people, you lose
the vibrancy of the town. You do not recognize the need to transport people from A
to B and it backs up people. That is why we bring people like you here.
Ms. Yukimura: I think it is in the planning if you address
both. If it is a bus system, you have express buses to get people like Larry and Bev
from Lihu`e to Kilauea without any stops. If it is just to get people from one end of
Kapa'a to the other you have the local bus or you have a bypass, which also has
some tradeoffs because sometimes a lot of business can bypass a town like
Hanap6pe many years ago when they built the bypass. And Koloa has maybe
experienced that. If you just do streets based on level of service, then you will not
have a successful city.
Mr. Toth: Bev, could you come up here. Can you tell us
a little about the performance measures? Do you have a series of performance
III
measures that are being developed? You can even just recite them off the top of
your head.
Ms. Brody: Yes. Crash.
Ms. Yukimura: You need to speak in the mic, Bev.
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COUNCIL WORKSHOP SEPTEMBER 6, 2012
Ms. Brody: Pedestrian and Cyclist Safety. Active
Transportation Rate. Safe Routes to School. Mode of Transportation. Public
Transportation will also be an issue. Active Transportation. Length of how many
sidewalks, roadways, pathways, and how many multi-use paths.
Mr. Toth: Why do you care so much about active
transportation? What is your angle?
• Ms. Brody: Get Fit Kaua`i's angle is definitely the health
issue. We seem to have engineered physical activity right out of our lives. People
will take cars just to go from K-Mart to Longs Drugs and that is a form of walk. If
you are inactive, that contributes to obesity related problems such as diabetes,
heart attack, and stroke. There are so many different health issues that are
contributed to obesity and non-activity definitely contributes to that.
Mr. Toth: If somebody does not want to walk and they
are okay with becoming obese and getting sick, why would the island of Kaua`i care?
Ms. Brody: Why would we care?
Mr. Toth: Yes, I am asking.
Ms. Brody: Well, personally, I think it is part of our
community as a whole to have a healthy community and it is very important to
everybody that they are healthy.
Mr. Toth: And it is costing us money, right? Is that
what you were going to say?
Ms. Brody: Yes, that too. It definitely costs us a lot of
money.
Ms. Yukimura: I think the percentage of Gross Domestic
Product that we spend on healthcare is the highest among first world countries.
Mr. Toth: It is creating a drain on our society and
getting worse. I hear people say that in 25 years the health crises is going to have a
greater impact to our security as a Country than a lot of the other stuff that we are
focusing on. Not that the other stuff is not important, but it is getting worse. I will
show some slides in a second. There is a philosophy among some folks in America
that believe we are individuals. So, why is it your business to change the way that I
am eating? Why do you care? Well, because there are a lot of reasons in addition to
the fact that here, I am sure you will take care of folks with healthcare more so than
a lot of other places and it is just a drain. Plus, productivity loss and people out of
work. Where I was going with this in terms of sustainability, performance
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COUNCIL WORKSHOP SEPTEMBER 6, 2012
measures, and your congestion performance measures, they are failing. There are
no specific statistics that I could find for Kauai. For Honolulu, the congestion
numbers, and despite the fact that we keep building more and more roads and we
think that sooner or later we will catch up with the curb, the congestion is going to
the roof. Look at that statistic and the cost of congestion for Honolulu. There has
been almost a 700% increase since 1985. We keep building roads. You mentioned
crashes as a performance measure. That is a lot of people for a small island.
Research is now showing that this whole idea that every time there was a crash, we
would train the New Jersey D.O.T. to make the road wider, straighter, and faster.
It works on the freeways but it does not necessarily work in the local streets
because you speed up cars and telephone utility lines are there. There e are
pedestrians and so on. This whole idea of tuning the roads for high speed travel—it
is not making it safer, it is making it less safe. We are running out of money all
around the Country.
Ms. Yukimura: Gary, can you go back a few slides? I did not
even have time to look at your graph here. What is it showing?
Mr. Toth: It is showing the budget gap between--just
for maintenance alone, the needs that were identified by the Pennsylvania D.O.T.
and the amount of money that they were able to raise. Every year, if I were to show
a chart on that, that gap gets bigger and bigger and bigger. In the eastern states
that have some of the oldest infrastructure and the most population, there are
organizations that are starting to say that we need to start shutting down some
bridges because we do not have enough money to keep up with it.
Ms. Yukimura: I believe that Ray McCormick of Kaua`i said
that it is similar to the State Highway Fund as well, although I have not been able
to really get the statistics or look at the costs.
Mr. Toth: I would be shocked if it were not. I think one
of the few states for instance where that is not the case is Alaska because they have
all that oil money. But I am going to bet you that 45 out of the 50 states are well
behind the curve in terms of raising money. So, it shows that it is not working and
we put this money into big roads while it is not solving the problem. From a
transportation perspective, it is increasing the crashes. Then when it comes to
other things, we start thinking about transportation. These slides speak for
themselves. You can see the code in color there in terms of the states and
percentages of the people who are obese. These slides begin to show why the Center
for Disease Control has declared an obesity epidemic because it is spreading like a
virus. This is happening within our generation. Hawai`i has probably had a similar
progression, although I think you are in one of the top ten percent of the Country in
terms of "the best of a bad situation." The first time I saw this, I was shocked by
how quickly this has progressed. Transportation is not the only fall for this but we
are a big part of it. So the work that Bev is doing for Complete Streets, and Lyle,
Mike, and Larry, is real critical for our health and the aloha spirit. We do care for
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COUNCIL WORKSHOP SEPTEMBER 6, 2012
our fellow men. We are all in this together. I heard somebody, when I was in
Lahaina, give a talk. He was Hawaiian. He talked about how he and his father
used to go around the Pacific in a canoe for six months. When you are in a canoe
together for six months, you really had to learn when somebody was having a bad
day. In New Jersey, we would throw them overboard. In Hawai`i, you love them
more. So we are all in this together.
There are many dimensions of it, but that statistic in itself--think about what
that means. Because of the way we created our built environment, we have to drive
our kids everywhere. In New York, they are spending more time driving their kids
around than they are on vacation.
Council Chair Furfaro: Before we mention this slide, can we go back
to the geographic map. It seems like all of these issues start in the south. Yet, I
always see the south as being more rural. Then, it strikes up to the mid-west where
a lot of dairy companies are. Is there a correlation there that you can speak more
of?
Mr. Toth: I am not sure if there is a correlation.
Council Chair Furfaro: If you go back two slides, you can see the
south, Mississippi, Louisiana, and West Virginia. If I had to outline the economic
concerns in the nation, I also would relate it to those states. Then go up one slide
and you can see more of these southern states.
Mr. Toth: This is not my forte but what I have read to
a certain extent is that some of it has to do with access to healthy foods. If you go to
the rural areas, it is more difficult. Also, it is that whole active lifestyles again.
You have to work harder to create built form because if you were in Honolulu, you
could choose, or if we made all of the streets perfect or in Lihu`e, if we made all of
the streets perfect, there is enough destinations close together where you could
literally give up your car. But in rural America, that is not quite possible.
Council Chair Furfaro: If you think about the western part of the
U.S., there are overdeveloped freeways and roads. Then you think of the south and
Forrest Gump and the ruralness, and the ability to walk. He turned out to be quite
a runner but the other piece that we are missing here is the fact that there is an
issue with source of food and poverty. It is those two things there.
Mr. Toth: Right. This speaks to the fact that there is a
combination of things leading to this. It is not just transportation and land use.
Council Chair Furfaro: I only say this because we have people from
the Health Department here as well.
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COUNCIL WORKSHOP SEPTEMBER 6, 2012
Ms. Yukimura: I want to say too, in rural places there are no
sidewalks. Then, cars just became the dominant way of moving around. This
wonderful sidewalk, which is the thing I love most about this new highway that is
between Lihu`e and Kaua`i Community College, that is going to enable kids from
Komohana subdivision and from Puhi to walk to the middle school. It is
tremendous and it is just so much more inviting to walk on a sidewalk. I have seen
mothers pushing strollers in the middle of `Umi Street and a man pushing his
mother in a wheelchair in the middle of`Umi Street.
Mr. Toth: So, Complete Streets is a real important part
of this. Some of us believe in climate change and some of us do not but burning
carbon fuels is contributing to global climate change. We do not all believe in it, but
if you do it is a factor. So, if we keep waiting for somebody else to change this for
us, that light will never turn green. I want to go through the rest of this quickly so
we can have some conversation. We are talking about Complete Streets. Is this a
complete street?
Ms. Yukimura: Where is the transit?
Council Chair Furfaro: I do not see a bike path. I do not see a
crosswalk. I like the median because with the median you do not need to cross—
you could go half at a time. But, there are some elements missing.
Mr. Toth: There actually is a crosswalk. I said this,
this is the third time. I have been on three islands and three times I realized that I
have not been standing in the crosswalk. I have to go back out there and take a
couple steps back and take another picture.
Mr. Chang: So is this a trick question? Is this twelve
noon like the other Denver deal?
Mr. Toth: Do I look like a shifty guy to you?
Mr. Chang: Well, are you from New Jersey? Are you one
of those guys that would throw the other out of the boat? It looks like a church or
shopping center or gathering on the left. It almost could look like that street by
Kukui Grove. The only difference is that we do not have a crosswalk and we do not
have that median but depending on the time of day, I guess it looks functional. You
got a sidewalk.
Mr. Toth: It is not a trick question. It is really a
question designed to get us thinking about this. There is a five foot shoulder which
most manuals will say is the minimum standard for a bike lane. It does not
necessarily have to be striped like a bike lane. There is a crosswalk. By the way,
somebody pointed out yesterday when we were talking about this with your
engineering staff that the fact that there is not a crosswalk does not mean it is
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COUNCIL WORKSHOP SEPTEMBER 6, 2012
illegal on Kaua`i to cross the street. It is implied even if it is not striped that there
is a crossing at every intersection. Here is another picture. Is this a complete
street? The Irish, by the way, are doing what you do here in Hawaii. They are
going back to their traditional language. I guess "lana" means "lane." Of course,
this is a complete street in the technical sense because it is accommodating all of
the modes and it has got a cycle track and the sidewalk. It has got the bus lane and
accommodation for the cars. But this is in Dublin, one mile from downtown,
Saturday afternoon, and it is 65 degrees. Where are the people? This speaks to the
whole idea that ultimately the complete streets have to be tied together with some
of the work with Marie and Lyle is talking about in terms of land use. The model
street guide that you are emulating from Los Angeles, the chapter that I think Lyle
is on right now, is getting this whole idea of place making destinations. You could
have the greatest cycle path and sidewalks in the world and have great weather. In
Ireland that happens probably around eight days a year, and in New Jersey that
happens around 20 days a year. Over here, it probably happens 362 days a year.
But if you do not have the destinations, senior citizens are not going to walk to a
pharmacy if they have to walk four miles down the road, even if there is a sidewalk.
The picture on the right is my home town. There are three senior citizens
walking down the street. There is a section in this street that has no sidewalks
whatsoever. There are people walking on it and biking on it all of the time. The
picture on the left is Lahaina. There is a kid comfortably skateboarding in the
middle of the street. There is only one sidewalk on one side. We took a tour of Maui
and you have a lot of streets here like this too. There is the answer from the
National Complete Streets Coalition. It does not say anything about having to have
a bike lane or a sidewalk but what it is saying is we need to build it into the design
in the built form of something that makes it comfortable for everyone to move
forward. So, this part of the conversation is designed to say that there is not one
size fit all.
Ms. Nakamura: I think that is what we heard from people in
rural areas from this island that the design in Complete Streets in rural areas
might be different from urban areas.
Mr. Toth: Right. Look at that picture from Lahaina.
You would ruin that street if you tried to put a bike lane in. You would ruin some of
that rural environment if you tried to put a sidewalk in. So, Complete Streets takes
us to the traditional highway and street design approach is all about the cars and
moving them fast and quickly. Complete Streets adds in the other modes and it
literally, this is coming from the National Design Manual that everybody uses,
there are some words about accommodating pedestrians and bikes but all of us were
trained that way. Complete Streets seeks to do this, and then place making seeks
to do this which is a greater vision for your community. Think about all of this
upside down. Our engineers are great problem solvers and our transportation
planners are great problem solvers. Let us give them the vision for what you want
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COUNCIL WORKSHOP SEPTEMBER 6, 2012
for a great Kaua`i and these fellows will figure it out. They already have. You have
got three prototype projects already that are wonderful.
Ms. Yukimura: Community or corridor?
Mr. Toth: Well, say you did a stretch of—is it Route 30
that is the road that goes over? Route 50? The big road that goes all over the
island?
Ms. Nakamura: Kuhio Highway?
Mr. Toth: Is it 50?
Ms. Yukimura: We do not know numbers.
Mr. Toth: I am not going to try and pronounce the
name. The big road that goes all the way around? You might do a corridor study
for instance. On the mainland or in Honolulu, we might talk about the corridor
vision. Here, I think the neighborhood and community vision is more appropriate.
Ms. Yukimura: A car vision?
Mr. Toth: A corridor vision.
Ms. Yukimura: I think in terms of a corridor...
Mr. Toth: Yes, I do not think it is really applicable here
on Kaua`i because you do not have places, only Lihu`e, where you have the grid
system where you just want to pick a street and emphasize on it.
Ms. Yukimura: I thought grid systems without rigidity are
appropriate for all towns.
Mr. Toth: They are.
Ms .Yukimura: It does not mean they are really grids but
there are many ways to get from here to there.
Mr. Toth: The principle applies to Kaua`I; I just think
realistically, most of your communities are rectangular. They are elongated. There
is not room to spread out in a big square like Honolulu.
Ms. Yukimura: I do not know. As an island, we have a
corridor which the belt highway reflects and the large macro of it is that you have
towns connected along that corridor with one offshoot to K5loa, to Poi`pu. Right?
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COUNCIL WORKSHOP SEPTEMBER 6, 2012
Mr. Toth: Right.
Ms. Yukimura: And, you would think in terms of the town
and regional movement and then you would think in terms of the corridor
movement.
Mr. Toth: Sure. If you do it upside down and you think
that out first, so if you were going to do a corridor type thing, it is almost done like a
string of pearls. How do I connect the towns with the corridor that works?
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Corridor? Sounds like you are saying
car.
Mr. Toth: It is my New Jersey accent. Then you go to
the pearls, towns along the way, and you develop a vision. Then we work with our
transportation folks to say, "How do we best achieve that vision?" As Tim was
pointing out in Kapa`a, you have to work with your engineers to find that right
balance between moving people through the town and making sure the richness of
the town is still there. There may even be solutions that would be put on the work
because they are very clever people to find ways that we can have the road function
differently, certain times from others.
Ms. Yukimura: In terms of Kapa'a and the problem with
through traffic, at least two solutions come to mind. One is a bypass, which we do
have but you have to be careful that the bypass is not too far off from the town.
Then, you do these links into the town like a park and ride and easy walks into the
town. That is one way. The other way is to just put more people into transit which
would really cut down in the through traffic.
Mr. Toth: Part of it is getting rid of the congestion too.
So, part of Complete Streets is if we could get 10% of the people off the road because
we have created a whole series of destinations and places and streets and walk able
street infrastructure. You just chip away at it. It is never going to just go away. I
hate to break it to you, but you are never going to end up with no congestion on this
island because you have the big road going through so many towns. You can make
it better and you can give people options.
Ms. Yukimura: In the performance measure, you have trip
mode share. If you shift more trip mode to alternatives like biking, walking, and
transit you will begin to reduce the number of cars on the road.
Mr. Toth: Absolutely. So, yes, everything you are doing
is perfect.
Ms. Nakamura: If we could go through the presentations and
then we can do questions.
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COUNCIL WORKSHOP SEPTEMBER 6, 2012
Mr. Toth: Okay. It is just my opinion that sooner or
later you are going to have congestion here. So, we talked about two steps and I
want to flash through this quickly because I want to have discussion. But the first
step is the Complete Streets. What we want to do is create a situation on Kaua`i
where you do not have to get six or seven of your friends to help you cross the street.
That is in Sydney, Australia. Without much comment, I am just going to roll
through. Dan is ambitious. As you can see, those trees grew in overnight. In New
Jersey, it would take 20 years. Over here, it might take 20 months because you
have such a lush environment. As you go from your rural stretches to your roadway
into your pearls and villages, do something that announces to the driver, coming
into town—
Ms. Yukimura: Like Hanalei Bridge.
Mr. Toth: Right. It was out there. Next week, I am
going to the Pro-Walk, Pro-Bike Conference which P.P.S., Project for Public Spaces,
is running. I have been talking to all the National bike path organizations and we
are all now talking. That successful bike infrastructure is the one on the bottom left
hand corner. We are comfortable letting our children ride on it and getting far
enough away. You do not see a parent right next to them. Most of our places, if we
ever allow them on a bike, we would be right alongside of them. So, with road diets
or right sizing, some of our streets are just too tuned towards the car so you take out
a lane and put in a bike lane. You are sort of doing it here on Rice Street. The
experiment four lanes to three lanes. There is a four lane to three lane conversion
which makes room for the bike lane and makes room in the middle for protected
pedestrian crossings. There is a fixed object in the middle of that. But you make a
choice, I want to protect the pedestrian. Historically, our design philosophy is to not
put trees and fixed objects near the roadway because a car can crash into it. Now,
there is a shift to say we want to protect pedestrians too. In Long Beach, where we
are holding our conference next week, shows a wide array of different ways to add
bike lanes in. This is a protected bike lane that is protected by parked cars. That
van is parked and it provides infinite protection for the cyclists. There is something
called a green lane where they painted a stripe in the middle of the lane and
announce that bikes and cars have equal rights to that street. And, it works on four
lane roads where you have frequent traffic lights and the cars are going slow, five or
six hours a day, because of the congestion. On off-peak, there are so few cars that
the cars go to the left lane and the bike stays in the right lane. It is a way of
leveraging your money and getting more for your dollar. I actually felt safe enough
that I am on the bike behind him taking a picture with my smart phone. Bike
boulevards. This is where there are no bike lanes but what they are doing is they
slow down some streets. They put in mini circles which signify to the driver that
they are in a different kind of space.
The second part is the place making part. You folks are well along the way
with your Complete Streets—many dimensions, performance measures, and pilot
1
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COUNCIL WORKSHOP SEPTEMBER 6, 2012
projects. We need to put the people back into the streets. There is a whole
philosophy on that. I am not going to spend a whole lot of time on this presentation
but we can talk about it in our questions later. A lot of this stuff is on our website,
pps.org. It is the way of thinking about how the buildings—you mentioned form
based code in the introduction. Form based code is a big part of this because there
is a huge difference in the sense of place if you have a Strip Mall or Wal-Mart, the
modern trend is to put a lot of parking between the building. Envision yourself
walking down that compared to a street where the buildings are up on the front.
So, this whole idea with creating a sense of place, the buildings in the form based
code were a big part of creating a sense of outdoor spaces. The research shows that
people like being in places with edges. They like to have some framing, whether it
is the buildings or vegetation.
This is the extreme. I am not going tell you to have a street on Kaua`i to look
like this, but notice the concepts and activities on both sides of the street. That will
also slow down the cars. Humans are probably the nosiest species on the planet. If
we put stuff there, like activity in addition to creating a street that is a place, it will
slow down the cars.
Ms. Yukimura: I also notice in there that those buildings are
three or four stories high so they are not that high actually. We have two stories
here; you could go three because you have capacity then.
Mr. Toth: Right. The common misconception about
density in America is that it could either look like certain places like Manhattan or
Honolulu. Two stories or three stories will do well in most places.
Ms. Yukimura: I mean in towns.
Mr. Toth: Right. That reflects community identity. It
is real important, I think particularly in Hawaii, where you have got this strong
sense of place. You put blinders on and some of the places where I have been in
Maui and O`ahu and I could be in Oklahoma or New Jersey or be anywhere. So
place making puts some sense of identity. In New York City, they are completing
their streets in ways that actually have plazas in. So you may have an opportunity
or two in Kaua`i to put some public space in and the bike lane complements it. A lot
of this is going on. So, again, the first part is to complete the streets. The second
part is to work with your land use and redevelopment with people like Marie and
the other folks to bring activities in and take advantage of the reallocation of the
space that Complete Streets does. It is just another example. Those buildings are
not very high.
Ms. Yukimura: Can you show the former?
Mr. Toth: Have you got anything that looks like that in
Lihu`e?
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COUNCIL WORKSHOP SEPTEMBER 6, 2012
Ms. Yukimura: Yes. (Inaudible)
Mr. Toth: Do it right, and work with the private sector,
do not put the money and energy into it. Shopping centers, right. Shopping centers
are still going to be a big part of your destinations. If that is your destination and
you get there, you still feel unsafe. Who wants to ride your bike in the middle of
that and if you are walking, you have to have your head on a swivel. You would
need to be looking everywhere. There is little, subtle things that we can do that will
not only make it a better environment but now you have more ratings. And, what
you are doing is you are conserving hope and space in Kaua`i. Any new growth that
you need, you want some new commerce. It makes sense to fit it into the areas that
are already developed so us tourists can come and look at the beauty. So, what is
place making?
Council Chair Furfaro: Before we go there, I need to make an
announcement. I need to step out and have been called away for a moment. Just to
remind the Committee Chairwoman, we still have to take a ten-minute break at the
two-hour mark.
Mr. Toth: I am almost done.
Council Chair Furfaro: No, what I am saying is I would recommend
when you finish this presentation to take the break then, and come back for the
questions and answers. That would be my suggestion. I hope to be back b
q Y gg p by then.
Mr. Toth: Okay. So, what is place making? It is very
simple. The principles of place making go back to research done 50 to 60 years ago
by the person by the name of William Whyte, who was commissioned by New York
City and said, "We are putting all of this money into public spaces and some of them
are working and some of them are not." They were mystified as to why some were
working and some were not. So, this is what he found in his research. It is not very
scientific stuff. We do not have to go get a PhD. to figure this out. The people will
sit where there are places to sit, people will go to places where there are things to
do, and people love to be around other people. Nobody wants to go to this
fantastically designed place and sit there for three hours and be the only person
there. It is very simple. These are our principles that we look to take. William
Whyte's nickname was "Holly," and so we took Holly Whyte's principles. The
community is the expert. We do not come in with a design philosophy. We do not
come in with a solution. We come in with and engage the community. We engage
the neighborhood. We are creating a place, not just a design that the Government
has to get out of its head that it is just our responsibility to do things. We need to
find partners, leverage neighborhoods, and work with Bev's organization. I do not
know if you have a bicycle/pedestrian organization on Kaua`i.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes. P.A.S.S.
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COUNCIL WORKSHOP SEPTEMBER 6, 2012
Mr. Toth: You need to do well at it. You can learn a lot
just by keeping your eyes open. I want to go through this real quick. For principles
of what makes a great place. You can find this on our website but I will leave the
slides with you. For fundamental principles and sociability, we are social people,
most of us. I did this in Honolulu and somebody said, "Do you have to make
everyone be sociable? Can there not be places with solitude." Yes, for sure. In
general, too much of that and you want to go to someplace where you can hang out
with other people. Even if you have a loving husband, every so often you will want
to go to somewhere and hang out with other people. They need to be comfortable.
There needs to be uses and activities. It needs to be connected to other places. We
are finding, and there are places like the State of Michigan—the Governor has come
in and he is a businessman and he comes in and he issues an Executive Order and
said that he ordered all his cabinet officers to come up with place based principles.
That place making is the foundation for everything dealing with Transportation,
Education, and Environmental Protection—turned it upside down because he
recognizes that if you turn it upside down, we get more out of our investment. It
does all that stuff there. The health. It helps everybody. All of the different
individual movements we have are helped. It supports the economy. We need to
stop thinking about all of our investment and public institutions and private
institutions. Most of it is done separately. We need to pull it together. Upside
down planning and come up with what we want all of your string of pearls to be and
start to think this way. There are all sorts of opportunities. You do not have train
stations here but you do have bus stops. You have your transit agency in our
workshop for two days. There a lot of ways to think about this from Power of Ten,
which is the macro vision down to the smaller stuff. The Power of Ten is a principle
that says on the island of Kaua`i, you need—and there is nothing magic about ten,
but you need a lot of cool destinations. And you have that. I was at your canyon at
one end, I was at Princeville and Hanalei Town. So, you have lots of destinations on
your island and you have certain places that have a lot of things to do. A lot of
different places, so that little beautiful town, Hanalei. You could wander around.
There are a dozen or so things to do. Then, at each place, you want to have lots of
things to do. So, you got many solid examples of it and then you got many other
places, perhaps here in Lihu`e, where you can take these principles and enrich it
without fundamentally transforming it. In Dun Laoghaire, Ireland, we went out. It
used to be a very vibrant place going back 50 or 60 years ago. That is the ferry
landing that takes you into England. There is a lot of history at this particular
location but like many places, over time, it got passed by communities who are more
oriented to the car and the mall and so on. So, we went back to Dun Laoghaire and
worked with them and used the Power of Ten principle to figure out—you can see
the different colors. Some of the places were streets and some were places. We
went in and did an exercise with them and said, "Okay, let us pick one of those."
We did all of them but just for this, I will show you one. We went to the East Pier
which is basically the only thing you can do on that pier, is to walk out and go look
out into beautiful landscapes so that was a great thing to do. We did not tell them
this. We gave them flipcharts, sent them out, and gave them a half hour to be back
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COUNCIL WORKSHOP SEPTEMBER 6, 2012
in the room. This is what the community said, "Boy, I would love to see this happen
here." And a lot of that is not going to cost the Government a lot of money to do.
You build it, it is organic. You build it over time. In Singapore, we have done this
dozens of places. You take the same principle, Power of Ten, and it cascades down
and you ultimately get to the particular site. Even in a very small or tight place
like this. Maybe this is kind of a corridor thing, JoAnn, it is short for corridor. But
you end up at the places but they are still separated and so people would get into
their car to go from one end to the other. So, this is where Complete Streets begins
to come in. You can begin to knit these places together so this is how they work
back and forth. Complete Streets sets the tables for streets as places. Then streets
as places come back in and help Complete Streets, and helps the traffic.
Ms. Yukimura: Seems like you could do that with Kapa'a
Town, or LIhu`e, maybe.
Mr. Toth: You probably could do that in a lot of places.
I do not know your island that well. I was down at Po`ipu Beach because that is
where you had your H.C.P.O. Conference and it seems like there were a lot of things
that were spread out down there.
Ms. Yukimura: We have a proposal for a shuttle.
Mr. Toth: Okay. There are different ways of knitting
them together. So, the last thing I want to talk about here is this whole concept of
Lighter, Quicker, Cheaper. And it is a philosophy—PPS did not coin the term but
we adapted it from—I forget who it was that first used it. It is a whole thing of
Planning and in the profession that I came from in and in Government, we always
come up with these big plans and try to solve everything at once and make them
capital intensive and permanent. And it takes us ten to fifteen years to get it done.
Lighter, Quicker, Cheaper says that stuff that I showed you from the Dun
Laoghaire Pier, a lot of that stuff can start to happen tomorrow. And it does a lot of
things. It gives the community a sense of, "Wow, we really can get something done."
It shows progress and inspires investment. It breaks down resistance. When you
do some of these projects and if you start off with paint, people will be, "Okay, if it
does not work, we can take it out."
Ms. Nakamura: Chair Furfaro has a question.
Council Chair Furfaro: Could I ask you to look at the Kapa'a Bypass
Plan during your visit because as pointed out by Vice-Chair Yukimura, there is a
plan where we have the ocean residence, we have the mauka residence, and then we
are supposed to have three connective routes that connects the bypass. People
coming in for grocery shopping can access Foodland and Safeway. That people can
access the credit union and service station. Then people can access on Kukui Road.
So instead having them travel in the corridor, they can just come down from—I am
sorry, I said mauka—from the mountain side. It is actually saying towards the
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COUNCIL WORKSHOP SEPTEMBER 6, 2012
valley. That is what it means. Anyway, so that these people can come down from
the inland pieces and do banking, fuel, and go right back. They can come down
from the valley areas and access groceries and finances, and go back. We have not
put any urgency on those connectors, but if you could just look at that for us, that
would be very nice.
Mr. Toth: Sure, I would be happy to do that.
Ms. Yukimura: It is a great idea.
Mr. Toth: Some of us are talking about, with the road
system, we have developed a well thought out network. We think if we are going to
build a freeway, what the other streets that feed into it are and how does it all
connect. We have this hierarchy with a movement towards institutionalizing that
kind of thinking for pedestrian and bicycle planning. So, for the separated bike
path, or even this painted bike lane, that might be thought of as a road. Then other
streets need to fit into it. And, going back to what we were talking about earlier,
you do not need to have a bike lane at all those connectors. Some of them might be
just that we slow down traffic or create a bike boulevard. Some of it may naturally
already be that way.
Council Chair Furfaro: If you could, I would like to put that request
in. Thank you.
Mr. Toth: So, here is how the Lighter, Quicker,
Cheaper stuff works combined with the Power of Ten. Everybody—if you mention
Harvard Yard, in Harvard, Boston—actually it is Cambridge, but everybody thinks,
"Wow, what a spectacular place." Physically, it is a spectacular place. The beauty
of it is amazing, but it was all form. There is no function there. If you go to
Harvard Yard, it is some of the most unutilized space in America. It is a
transportation corridor. People are walking back and forth. It is all you see, at
least last year. So, they engaged PTS to come. We did the Power of Ten exercise
and identified the ten potential places you can see—actually there is fourteen. We
worked with folks to come up with a conceptual plan of what could be done, places
to sit, places with shade, and where you could bring your food in, all of the
fundamental principles that Holly White discovered 50 years ago. And in six weeks,
that is what Harvard Yard looked like. The place was transformed with almost no
money. And a lot of the money came from people who could make money on doing
it. It is just Government or the University or the school district setting the table.
Lyle and I were talking yesterday about how we can create public spaces and
streets that set the table and get people permission.
Ms. Brody: We can do that right here.
Mr. Toth: People are using street experiments. This
was a community group in Philadelphia. You might think that Philadelphia is very
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COUNCIL WORKSHOP SEPTEMBER 6, 2012
walkable and it is in many ways. But, they felt that some of their streets were—
this street is pretty narrow. I am not quite sure of why they picked this but they
picked this to show a concept of a chicane. That is burlap, and there are some
plants that they borrowed from a local Home Depot. They went with this for two
weeks and they promoted it also. They put that sign and wanted to make sure that
when people walked by, they were not just thinking who threw some burlap out
there. They wanted them to know that this was part of an experiment to get them
to think about their streets differently. There at the corner, which had just been
painted with the stripes and no parking, they put the burlap out with some tables.
There is a little meeting house. You can see downtown Philadelphia if you look
down the street. Not far from downtown. Mid-walk crossings. We put them in for
two weeks, and said, "Hey folks, we need more of these." This was a low cost
neighborhood group that came up with money for it. The Home Depot cooperated
by letting them borrow the plants. The Mayor of Philadelphia is a bold guy, and for
40 years people have been fighting over this project to take Market Street, which is
the main street in Philadelphia. He said, "It is too big, too tuned for cars. We want
more good stuff there." So the new Mayor of Philadelphia ordered his Public Works
Department to go out and put barrels out there and shrank it from six lanes to four
lanes for two weeks. He did not do it in the secrecy of night. He called the big
newspaper, The Philadelphia Enquirer. He held a press conference and made sure
it got on the paper. He announced to the people of Philadelphia that we are going to
shut this down for two weeks. The barrels will come away in two weeks and he
said, "I am going to move my desk over to the window overlooking this so that if
four, five days into this experiment, a crack opens up and Philadelphia downtown
falls into the crack because of the loss of the capacity of the street—I may not be the
first one to go into the hole, but I will be one of the first." Two weeks later,
everybody said that nothing happened to the traffic and everything was fine. Now,
they are moving to make it more permanent. So that is the Lighter, Quicker,
Cheaper concept. In New York City, all the work that is happening now, started
with these kinds of street experiments. It is hard to see in this picture but there is
people looking at them. They are sitting out there and there is nothing. Other than
places to sit, shade, and the fundamental principles of Holly White, there is not a lot
of infrastructure there. The shop owners around there said, "If it causes chaos, we
can tear it down tomorrow." Now, I wish I brought the picture. They formalized it.
They made it like a mini park there. You guys might think about doing a parking
day in Lihu`e where you go around and pick certain parking spaces—you get a
community group to do it and everybody does something different. You guys could
have one place as Get Fit Kaua`i and a block over the school district could have
whatever it is, certain food, maybe poi? In Maine, we worked with them there.
There is a four lane main street and we tried to shrink it down to size. The
merchants were going nuts. If we make it two lanes instead of four, nobody will
come to the Brunswick anymore. So, they were bold there too. They went out and
picked their busiest weekend of the year, and they said, "We are going to right size
this on the busiest weekend of the year." They told the merchants, "If it fails, we
will abandon our plans to right size the roadway." And it did not fail. Dan Burden
and I went back a year later and worked with them to convert that to a two lane
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COUNCIL WORKSHOP SEPTEMBER 6, 2012
roadway with bike ways. So, that is Lighter, Quicker, Cheaper. In Times Square, it
is a tacky substance and it is just a sandy thing that goes on top. We left it out
there for three or four years and nobody complained about taking it out. They
resisted it before we did it. They said, "You have got to be nuts. You are going to
shut down three blocks of Broadway in the middle of Manhattan?" It turns out that
they put G.P.S. devices in taxi cabs and found out that it improved travel times. It
improved travel times because it untangled a knot in the city streets where cars had
backed up and it forced the cars to be more creative. There is a lot of capacity in
New York streets but the things that cause these chokepoints, is probably the
simple biggest thing that is causing congestion in cities and in other places. Now,
they are coming back in with a ten million dollar project at Times Square to make it
permanent. They waited three years. I do not think we need to talk about this
anymore, right? Other than I put this in for Lyle's benefit. Lyle and Larry. There
is a picture of Lyle and Larry here sitting, on the phone. Do we have time to take a
break then I can put up the video, and that will be it? The video that talks about
this whole concept that we are all tuned to think that if we want to get to someplace
faster, we have to widen our streets and there is emerging movement in America
recognizing that is not necessarily the case. There is a video that shows it better
than I can explain it.
Ms. Nakamura: Okay. We are going to take a ten minute
recess and come back and watch the video. Thank you.
There being no objection, the meeting was recessed at 10:49 a.m.
The meeting reconvened at 11:03 a.m., and proceeded as follows:
Ms. Nakamura: Mr. Toth is going to walk us through the
video.
Mr. Toth: Right. I do not want to talk or show much
more presentation because I think I have worn myself out in terms of just talking. I
would like to show this video because when we talk about Complete Streets and
reallocating street space and right sizing, a lot of people, we intuitively feel, that by
shrinking some of our roads, we are going to slow things down. There is an
emerging understanding in the engineering profession, and it is just emerging so
this is not widespread, but there is an emerging understanding that a lot of the
times by speeding things up, we are causing a problem because people are piling up
at traffic lights. So in this video, this gentleman is the former Head of Washington
State D.O.T. This is not an environmental group, this is the State Department of
Transportation trying to explain that their customers had this phenomenon of
slowing down to get somewhere faster can be better. By slowing down your streets,
you can create more place making, livability, and more economic value on the
streets. Let me just show this. (Video presentation—"YouTube" Video, Doug
MacDonald, Rice and Traffic Congestion.)
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COUNCIL WORKSHOP SEPTEMBER 6, 2012
Obviously, he was thinking more of the big freeways but it shows that this
principle works more effectively on urban streets with traffic lights. It is the traffic
lights, or places where we go from two lanes to one lane, or when roads cross.
Ms. Nakamura: We are going to open it up for questions.
Councilmember Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: So, what this brings to mind is this concept
called "metering" or something where at an entrance to the freeway, there is a light
that lets the cars go off onto the freeway in a metered way. Supposedly, that gets
more cars through the freeway.
Mr. Toth: Correct.
Ms. Yukimura: It is that principle?
Mr. Toth: It is that principle but there are principles
that could be implied where if we slow down our streets, even the big highway that
goes into your different towns, they are going to get where they are going to go at
the same time at the worst. And they may actually get there faster because when
you start backing up people at traffic lights, it takes so much time to unload. And
roundabouts have solved some of the most troublesome congestion problems in the
Country. There is Dan Burden who forwarded an email from somebody that said,
"Already this year in 2012, 500 more roundabouts have been built in America."
There is a place in Indiana called Carmel, Indiana. It is now the roundabout capital
of the world. There are 60 or 70 roundabouts in the town with maybe 50,000.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. But you can even increase that
capacity, if you will, by having collector streets that have these in and outs only at
certain places because wherever you have an in and out, there is a request for a
street light.
Mr. Toth: Yes. There is a whole series of ways of doing
g
this. But this whole idea of metering is that four lane to three lane projects and
roundabouts, things that slow down. A lot of these streets, I flashed through them
for the sake of brevity, I did not cover them all, but a lot of the streets, when we
slowed them down—there was one example in New York City, 75% of the people in
the street were breaking the speed limit. When we slowed them down, we brought
them back down to this limit that we wanted to. By doing that, they did not pile up
at the lights. They progressed through more evenly. So, without even putting a
roundabout, there is an example of how that works.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you.
Ms. Nakamura: Councilmember Bynum.
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COUNCIL WORKSHOP SEPTEMBER 6, 2012
Mr. Bynum: Gary, I am glad you brought up roundabouts
because we have a couple in our future here on Kaua`i and we have a couple now. I
think the first one, I do not know if you visited in Kapa`a, was put in by the State.
Everybody knew that it moved the cars through but they designed it with no
pedestrian elements and we have low-income housing and a big housing area there
in the park. So, they retrofitted with pedestrian elements and on Kaua`i people
started saying that roundabouts are good for cars but they are not good for people. I
am worried about that because I know that roundabouts are good for people when
they are designed properly. Our second roundabout is in Po`ipu and it is a
showcase. It is beautiful and it does have pedestrian elements and it is also not a
typical roundabout in that it is sized to be this showcase. But you are making the
point that with roundabouts, you do move slower and you get there quicker. And
both things can be true. With a signal, you are going 35 miles an hour between
signals and you are going zero miles an hour while you are sitting there waiting
while in a roundabout, you might go 15 miles an hour the whole way but you get
there quicker. That is safer for pedestrians. Do I have this right?
Mr. Toth: Absolutely. Perfect.
Ms. Nakamura: Gary, could you introduce the woman to your
right?
Mr. Toth: Kate Rhode, from Project for Public Spaces,
working in our Transportation group.
Ms. Nakamura: Kate, would you like to say a few words?
Ms. Rhode: Sure. Thank you so much for organizing
this. It is fantastic to hear about all the work that you are doing and all the support
you have on the island for these issues. So, I work with Gary and like he said, I am
on the Transportation team at Project For Public Spaces. My background is
working in Urban Planning, Smart Growth Policy, and Transportation Policy.
Previous to PPS, I worked for Smart Growth America which is a national coalition
of groups. A lot of my background is in advocacy and organizing and I have been
pleased to join PPS recently.
Mr. Toth: So, Lyle and Marie are not the only engineer
planner pair in America.
Ms. Nakamura: I have a question regarding metering
slowing down for our highways where many areas are four or two lanes. How does
that work?
Mr. Toth: I have pretty much rode the entire length of
the big road because I went to Waimea Canyon, went all the way through, passed
the coffee estate and through a couple of cool, little towns. Then I went the other
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COUNCIL WORKSHOP SEPTEMBER 6, 2012
way to Hanalei. So you have these stretches where there is maybe five or six miles
and it is fairly rural. There, you do not want to be in traffic. I am not going to
encourage speeding but the bottom line is that it is okay because that is where you
want to pick up the speed. But then you get into some of the towns and you want to
slow them down. I think going this way heading up towards Princeville, you found
more an example of villages that are closer together as you go the other way. There,
as you begin to approach the villages, you really want to begin to slow people down
so that they do not pile up. When you get into some of these places—I remember
going through places in Kapa'a where you actually had two miles where there were
traffic signals every six or seven hundred feet. There is really where the metering
principle really comes to life. Then, if you slow it down, you can right size the
roadway or you can bring in bike lanes or you can foster more place making and so
then you get more value out of the street without taking away the value from the
motorists.
Ms. Nakamura: So, are you suggesting reducing speed limits
or staggering work hours? How would you actually get the cars to slow down?
Mr. Toth: Being an Engineer, I am reluctant, having
driven on that road once, to sit here and tell you that I got the answer. It occurred
to me as I drove through there that getting the speeds through that area more
equal so that people do not speed up, is going to make things more livable and get
more value of it. You could actually help the community. I do not remember what
the speed limit was to be honest with you. So I do not know whether the speed limit
is 35 and it is a problem, or whether the speed limit is slower, or whether the people
are breaking the speed limit. There is a tendency where you get frustrated and you
are stuck at the traffic light and then the light turns green and you get a chance.
Then you see a patch of road for 1,000 feet in front of you if you speed up. So, I do
not know. Do you have a speeding problem in some of those towns?
Mr. Chang: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes, we have.
Mr. Toth: A lot of these examples, you are not forcing
people or dropping people to fifteen miles per hour. You are trying to get them
down to the speed limit.
Ms. Rhode: It might be helpful for you—I have heard you
talk before about the difference between slowing people down using the design
measures of the street and then more operational measures and the benefits of each
of those. Maybe you could talk a little about that.
Mr. Toth: Are you talking about some of the land use
kinds of things?
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COUNCIL WORKSHOP SEPTEMBER 6, 2012
Ms. Rhode: No, like management or signalization or the
difference between more technology strategies or speed limits versus designing the
streets to encourage people to actually slow down.
Mr. Chang: Why don't you explain, Kate? It sounds like
you are on a roll.
Mr. Toth: Yes, you explain.
Ms. Rhode: I will try. I think what Gary was talking
about before sort of fits in where there are ways that you can design a street. The
street is fundamentally your design to support a specific design speed and that if
you make changes to the designer street, whether it is reducing the lane width or
reducing the width of the street, or adding things like sidewalks and bike lanes,
things that will create opportunities for motorists to see things within their line of
sight that is closer to them. Those are all things that help people slow down. When
you have the traditional transportation approach of designing streets that are wider
and longer and really have nothing in a driver's peripheral view that is close to
them, so there are clear sights right next to them. Those are all things that
encourage drivers to speed up because they are looking at their line of sight ahead
of them and there is nothing that is close to them. There are no curves in the road.
There are a lot of things that you could do just in terms of the design of the street.
Like Gary was saying, the thing about that changing the design versus things like
metering or changing the speed limit is that you could also get other benefits from
doing that. If you are adding sidewalks or bike lanes, you are making the street
more multi-modal. If you are adding things like trees and landscaping, you are
making the street more attractive for people to walk and bike on. There are
different places that may be appropriate for those strategies, but there is a lot you
can do just on the design side. You can actually get other benefits besides just
slowing people down from doing those strategies.
Mr. Toth: Yes, what she said. It is a context sensitive
solution. There is not one formula. If I recall, there is a town called Waimea, right?
Ms. Yukimura: Yes.
Mr. Toth: If I recall what it looks like, it looks very
different than the town of Kapa`a.
Ms. Yukimura: You think of it as "a/a." Pronounce the "a"
twice. A`a. Kapa`a.
Mr. Toth: Kapa`a. Right. Very different settings that
Waimea if I remember was a little more wide open. Even though there was a main
street and there were buildings there, it was a little more spread out, whereas
Kapa`a had a lot of stuff going on and a lot of things closer together. We need to put
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COUNCIL WORKSHOP SEPTEMBER 6, 2012
engineering back into engineering. You have got some talented folks sitting behind
me. What we need to do is say, "What do I want to accomplish? How do I do it?"
How Larry, Lyle, and Mike would address this in one town is going to be different in
another town. There are different solutions.
Ms. Nakamura: I think the additional challenge for us is that
the main road is a State-owned road, so there is jurisdictional issues and design
control. I have a question for Lyle about that.
Mr. Tabata: For the record, Lyle Tabata. I am the
Deputy County Engineer.
Ms. Nakamura: To really make this operational, knowing
that we have got Kuhio Highway that serves the State highway, but also is the
main street of many towns along the way. Lyle, how do you see implementing some
of the measures working with the State of Hawaii, Department of Transportation?
Mr. Tabata: Part of our strategy, needs to be, and do not
get me wrong, Ray McCormick is doing a fantastic job, but to bring in our concerns
and be an integral part of their planning process and take our community as you
saw. The people know and the people have a lot to say and we need to be able to
conduit that information to him and his superiors. We need to be able to leverage
ourselves onto the long range plan to make changes, and communicate the needs of
what we see. One of the things I have been advocating is (Dan Burden, Gary, and
Michael Mo rubbing off on me) is that I dislike traffic signals and to look into the
opportunities to install roundabouts for traffic circles.
Ms. Nakamura: And is State Highway receptive to that
concept on a State highway?
Mr. Tabata: I think they are. However, to evolve and go
from the traffic signal to the roundabout, usually roundabouts take extra right of
way. I just came off traveling last week in Carson City, Nevada, and I keep getting
told multi-lane and roundabouts will not work. I drove through several with no
problem. People keep saying when visitors come, they are not going to know how to
drive through a roundabout, but as Gary just mentioned, there are roundabouts
being installed daily and weekly across our Country. I think it is going to be more
of a commonplace as we move forward. As long as we do the proper education for
our people here, I do not worry about the visitors. I think they will know what to
do.
Ms. Nakamura: I think Ray is very open to ideas. I was just
wondering about the State D.O.T.
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COUNCIL WORKSHOP SEPTEMBER 6, 2012
Mr. Tabata: We just need to keep working with them
closely. When we go to the State level meetings, Larry and me, with Planning if we
go in as one voice and with the Council's help, I am sure we will make headway.
Mr. Toth: If I may jump in, I think what Lyle just said,
going in as one voice, having worked inside the State D.O.T. for 34 years, oftentimes
a few people from our community would come to us and ask us for something and
you would go to the town and there was no unified vision and other people would
say something else. I think the most compelling thing would be that whole unified
vision where you do some of the visioning things they have been doing and get the
Council behind them and everybody you can. If you turn up at the Hawai`i D.O.T.,
it is a lot harder for them to say no.
Ms. Nakamura: This is a follow up question. If we have our
County Priority C.I.P. projects, which are great, and then separate it into different
areas of the island, that is good. Something also good is we have a list of those
State D.O.T. jurisdictional projects prioritized to see where we might begin to have
those conversations with the State on where they would want to start committing in
this concept on the State highways.
Mr. Tabata: And we have that. We are in the middle of
the whole process of renewing the long range transportation plan. We are working
with Planning. We did a review already together with Planning on the
reclassifications of our roads.
Ms. Nakamura: It would be interesting to see that.
Mr. Tabata: Yes. There are solution based projects for
problems that have been brought to the D.O.T. over time, and criteria for
measurements and selection have been established. If we disagree vehemently
then...we are in a process of trying to create the comments to send back.
Mr. Toth: Let me jump in. I am sorry. Forgive me,
JoAnn. One of the things we began to figure out in New Jersey D.O.T. is that the
community has a right to determine how much congestion or what the nature and
the speed of the road is, unless it was a key part in the State highway system. In
New Jersey, we had roads that even though the community would say, "I am okay
with the congestion, please give me the kind of road that I want," we would come in
and say that there is a higher State need. But you are on an island, right? That big
road is yours, even though they have custody of it. If your Council would say, "Here
is what I want and I understand the tradeoffs that I might be doing." They may
still be a little stubborn but there is far less reason. That road is not connecting
anybody to Maui, Lanai, O`ahu from getting around.
Ms. Yukimura: Well, we have been trying to talk to the State
D.O.T. about the land transportation plan. We have asked that their consultant
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COUNCIL WORKSHOP SEPTEMBER 6, 2012
come before us to speak and we have asked twice now. They said no, twice. There
has not been a whole lot of communication between—at least this body and the
D.O.T. That is my concern because there is so much interface on this small island
and functionality relationship between the State highway and our County roads. It
is not just the State highway, in the long range transportation plan, they are
primarily looking at widening roads and level or service. They are not looking at a
combination of transit and highway improvements as a way to look into the future.
They have admitted that they have more projects on the books that they can
possibly ever build. There is a lot of concern there but there is a real
communication block and I think perhaps the Mayor and the Chair need to help in
this matter.
Council Chair Furfaro: I think you might know that I have signed
both of those letters to send out.
Ms. Yukimura: I know. So, we are in somewhat of a jam, but
I am hopeful we can break that through. I also want to say, with respect to
Councilmember Nakamura's questions, at one point the D.O.T. said, "If you want to
take the part of the road that goes through the towns and make them into County
roads and take jurisdiction?" They said they we are willing. That just takes away
part of their maintenance. They actually have said that over the last ten years.
They want to give away the parts of the roads that go through the towns. I do not
know what the present Administration which has been in just for maybe two years
at the end of this year. We have not asked this question for a while and I do not
think we were even asking to take over sections of the road. We were just in Kapa'a
town, for example, trying to negotiate with the State in terms of their plan, was to
put a four lane highway through Kapa'a town. Merchants and others were
concerned about that. It was in that discussion where they would say, "Well, if you
want that stretch of road, you can have it." Anyway, just some background
information on that.
Ms. Nakamura: Chair Furfaro.
Council Chair Furfaro: Yes. As we talked about earlier, you looking
at the alternate routes on the bypass in Kapa`a; I think that is a big part of this.
Also, I want to take this in the spirit which I offer it, we have a French speaking
engineer. I do not know if you knew that or not. If we want to compare ourselves
with anyplace dealing with roundabouts and so forth, the fact of the matter, Tahiti
is probably the right comparison for us. You go into Papeete, Faaa, Punaavia, and
Mahina and there are all roundabouts where these villages connect. These mid-
sized villages to Papeete and so forth. French Polynesia is about 400,000
but Tahiti is about a 125 000. That is the kind of comparisons we need
population, p
because those roundabouts work. They work. I would say that we need to have an
opportunity to show some of these examples where we can expedite connections
through different towns and so forth.
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COUNCIL WORKSHOP SEPTEMBER 6, 2012
Mr. Toth: I would be willing to go to Tahiti and take
some pictures if—
Council Chair Furfaro: Well, we have a Sunday and Wednesday
flight. Like I said, I spent time in there as a student exchange and my host family
happened to be the head of Public Works. But it is the right kind of comparison—
an island having traffic issues. I appreciate Chicago. I appreciate New York. But I
think we need to be a little more specialized.
Mr. Toth: Okay. Fair enough.
Ms. Nakamura: Councilmember Kuali`i.
Mr. Kuali`i: Thank you. Aloha and mahalo to all of you
for being here. I think Lyle said it best in his opening remarks about it being
exciting times. The potential of the things that could happen and I think one of the
things you talked about that resonated with me the most and I wanted to learn
more about, it was this Lighter, Quicker, Cheaper. I have been looking on your
website. Surely the State has financial difficulties and they do not have funding for
anything, so we probably cannot ask them to do anything with the roads, but I
think where we have control if we do little things. For example, working with the
community and these temporary experiments that start showing the kinds of
improvements that are possible and have community buy-in because they are
experiencing it and ultimately investing in the long term so those changes can come
slowly, but come because they are necessary. I agree with what the Chair said
about roundabouts. In fact, in Anahola, when the community worked on the town
center plan, one of their biggest concerns was that their neighborhood—one side of
the highway, and the other—and it is all subdivision and residential, but it is
fractured by the road coming through. Even though there are speed limit signs that
say slow down to 45 and 35, there is no element other than a road that goes through
neighborhoods. People never follow the speed limit there. There are no crosswalks
and no lights. There is nothing. No median, nothing close to the road. It is just
open and human nature tells people that it is okay to speed. They ignore the sign
that tells you as you are coming into the neighborhood—there are several signs like
35, 45, 45, 35. But if you stand in an area after that 35 mile per hour sign, people
are going 45 and 55 because they are just passing through. There is no reason to
stop there unless you live there. In this new design that the community came up,
with the help of consultants like you, in being green and having walkways—there
are roundabouts but I think it was just kind of wishful thinking because I do not
think a lot of people do not believe that the State will actually allow it. But,
ultimately, we are the State too. The citizens are the County and the citizens are
the State so in the long run, it is about pushing things in the direction where it
needs to go. I appreciate what you are doing and I am excited to hear about the
specifics of what is in the making for us and see pictures. This right sizing project
is in the line of this Lighter, Quicker, Cheaper.
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COUNCIL WORKSHOP SEPTEMBER 6, 2012
Mr. Toth: It is.
Mr. Kuali`i: Thank you.
Ms. Nakamura: Councilmember Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes. One area where I would like to ask for
some help is in our existing Traffic Calming Ordinance. Maybe that is going to
come up as you folks review our ordinances, but right now, the only thing a
community can ask for in slowing down speeding is a speed hump. There is a
process. It is not allowed on collector roads. A certain percentage of the
neighborhood has to ask for it or within a certain radius. But it is so limited given
the wide array of traffic calming possibilities from these mini circles to traffic
tables, speed tables, to street narrowing, to all those wonderful possibilities you
showed there. Right now, basically, the only option is a speed hump. We cannot
even ask for a speed table. I have been thinking, we have to redo this ordinance. I
do not know exactly how to do it. Off the top of my head, it seems like because
many of the requests come to the Council, we would have to refer it to Public Works
for a certain kind of analysis. These are retrofits now, these are existing
communities. It is not about new communities—I guess that is what you are
looking at, are subdivision laws. I do not know if you know of other jurisdictions
that have ordinance rules and regulations that help us help our citizens where
speeding is a problem in the neighborhoods.
Mr. Toth: I know of a couple policies from the State
D.O.T. and how they approach this and where they apply it. Off the top of my head,
I do not know or point you to a particular community that will look into that. You
talked about two things there. The second part, the 75% acceptance rate, I think
that is fairly common. It makes sense. You do not want to put them in and tear
them out because as soon as you put them in, what it is doing is forcing somebody.
Ms. Yukimura: That is not the problem with the current,
because you will easily find 75% of people who want to slow down the traffic and
stop the speeding.
Mr. Toth: The best resource I have seen on this is on
the Institute of Transportation and Engineer site. Lyle, we could probably figure
out—I will help you find it. Usually, if you go to "it.org" and type in traffic calming,
they have got a ten chapter manual on it. In there is a whole chapter on local
ordinances and so they would tell you how the people are approaching it. Also, they
have the whole pallet. As you point out, JoAnn, there is a whole range of things.
Let me just offer a comment. My inclination would be to not limit it by the function
of the road, whether it is a local road or a collector road, but more by the operating
speed. You can have some collector-distributor roads that are functioning at 25 or
35 miles an hour. We talked about this a little bit yesterday that somebody was
talking about putting a speed table in on Rice Street. What I said is that we do not
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want to put a speed hump and people are going 35 or 40 miles an hour. If one
person out of every 100 people that do not notice it, it is going to be a problem. So,
you want to put them in on slower streets, but that could be a collector.
Ms. Nakamura: Councilmember Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: I am just going to discuss this in terms of
how much things have changed on Kaua`i in just a few short years. We actually
have a bill pending, a traffic calming bill, that was brought to the Council by the
Administration several years ago. Lyle may not even know about this because it
was beforetheir revenue. Basically, the bill said, for a new developer, if you are
developing a new subdivision or new thing, give us a traffic calming plan that can
have these elements and at a minimum does certain things when this was before
the Council. Public Works at the time, Engineering Division, got up and said, "If
you pass this law, we do not even know how to do an assessment of what they
delivered to us." I think that has changed in our Public Works Department. The
idea of traffic calming and how it integrates with all of the things we were talking
about today, few years ago, it was just too a novel of a concept for our County to
handle. That bill is pending. It is still alive and we can resurrect it to see if it still
works because I believe we have moved that far. It is a real testament to the
current leadership that they really have embraced these concepts. (Inaudible)
Mr. Toth: Tim, with your permission—
Mr. Bynum: Are you aware of that law pending, Lyle?
Mr. Tabata: No.
Mr. Bynum: We can talk about it in the future because it
is a time for us to relook at that and it is something that we are in a process of
doing. What are the messages we give developers of new subdivisions, new roads,
what our expectations are.
Mr. Toth: Can I suggest one amendment to that
message. Traffic calming is a technique, and I think JoAnn started talking about
this. It is a technique to apply in existing places where we did not get the street
design—we did not design it in a way to get the cars to operate the way you want in
the first place. With a new development, you have an opportunity in addition to
traffic calming to talk about right sizing the streets. So, I would just make sure
that it is clear. Do not build a 36 foot wide street and then come in and put speed
humps in it.
Mr. Bynum: That was the intent of this. And then in
terms of our current ordinance, it is illegal to put any traffic calming device like
that on a collector street the way our ordinance is currently written. We did it on
Weke Road but we had to make it a special project and find work around for that.
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In terms of the retrofitting, our neighbor island of Maui went along way with that
and installed many speed bumps in many communities. We never got there. Some
of the speed bumps that we put in cost us a huge amount of money because if you
just gear up for one project and fire up the asphalt and put in one speed hump, it is
a lot of money, where the Maui group did it all in one contract. From my experience
in being on the Council for almost six years, we really took a stab at this about four
years ago but our Administrative structure was not prepared to respond to these
concepts. I am celebrating that. We are in a very different place now in terms of
the commitment and capability to resist some of these things.
Mr. Toth: You are doing a lot of cool stuff here.
Ms. Nakamura: Any other questions? Councilmember
Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: In terms of the performance measures, one
thing that seems to be missing is financial performance. I just wondered if there
are measures that can measure cost-effectiveness of solutions.
Mr. Toth: It is hard to turn it. It is a lot of work to
turn some of these into pure numbers. But there are things we could do like
making sure that you measure the speed of the roadway before and after. And you
measure the crash rate before and after you do these types of projects or plans or
programs. You could if you chose, for instance if you did it in one of your towns
where there is retail and other things going on, measure some of the economics of
what happens in your shops.
Ms. Yukimura: No, what I am talking about is this
especially applies to our long range planning for our State transportation system. It
has taken us 40 million dollars to widen the highway two lanes—well to go from
two to four lanes. 40 million dollars for what is the distance from Lihu`e to the
community college, about one mile? So it took us 40 million dollars to widen that
and then it is going to take another 40 million dollars to widen the bridge by the
mill which is about less than an eight of a mile. That is 80 million dollars. What
were alternative solutions to this that might have cost less? I am looking for
criteria—I guess it is Planning criteria, because if we had been given 20 million
dollars for our Kaua`i Bus system, we probably could make the busses come every
fifteen minutes with 20 million dollars. That might have solved the congestion
problem, but that assumes—that should be done in Planning, of our long range
plans. We need to see those cost alternatives. I am having a hard time even
starting the conversation about this.
Mr. Toth: Because they do not do it.
Ms. Yukimura: Pardon me?
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Mr. Toth: Because they do not do it at the State level,
in any State level, the way you are talking about it. They do not.
Ms. Yukimura: And why not? This is taxpayers' money.
Mr. Toth: I am not saying they should not, JoAnn. I
am saying that is why you are having a hard time. We have gotten away from that
in the transportation profession. In 30 or 40 years ago, we used to call it "cost
benefit analysis" and it was only travel time and crash rates. We have gotten away
from that and never replaced it with anything. You could cobble something
together. You folks would know how to do some of it. Some of it probably will look
old enough to have been around during the days of the cost benefit analysis. You
can do the same thing that we used to do to justify widening a roadway in terms of
value. We would estimate how the crashes would go down and then you could put a
value to that. There is also American Public Health Association has got a series of
data that you could cobble together to begin to talk about health and obesity.
Ms. Yukimura: I do not know if you even have to get to those
more subjective measures. I am just talking about pure financial measures.
Ms. Nakamura: I am not sure if this is the proper forum for
that discussion that we are talking about Complete Streets and place making.
Ms. Yukimura: Well, I am looking for what the Complete
Streets solution is for the highway system.
Mr. Toth: Okay. We can talk. Then I will talk to Lyle
and Larry. We can figure this out.
Ms. Yukimura: Great. Thank you.
Ms. Nakamura: Are there any other questions?
Councilmember Chang.
Mr. Chang: Mr. Toth, you went to Maui. Was that for
business or just to—
Mr. Toth: Yes. Through Heidi's program.
Mr. Chang: On Maui?
Mr. Toth: Yes.
Mr. Chang: So, you saw Front Street, but did you go to
Wailea or I�ihei on the south side?
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COUNCIL WORKSHOP SEPTEMBER 6, 2012
Mr. Toth: We did not get to IChei. But we went to
Wailuku. We spent a lot of time there. We went to Makawao. As Alan put it, we
did not see all of Maui but we saw a lot of Maui.
Mr. Chang: I was just trying to think. Did you see any
roundabouts in Maui County, anywhere? Or were there any talks of roundabouts?
Mr. Toth: There is one in IChei, right? I did not see
any.
Y
Mr. Chang: Because I do not think I really heard of an
educational component because I know we have our issues and our problems but
like in Lahaina and Ka`anapali is horrific as far as the traffic is concerned, as does
Kiihei and Wailea so...
Mr. Tabata: Councilmember Chang, we have sent several
of our engineers to training for designing and building roundabouts. We are moving
forward on Kauai. Gary Toth is just another in a series of workshops that through
Bev Brody, the University, and Department of Health that we have brought in. We
brought in Dan Burden, Michael Mo, and we are working with our Engineering and
Planning Departments together so that we are being taught the principles and the
concepts. We are loading up our toolbox, so to speak, and we are creating a vision
together between Planning, Public Works, Engineering, and the Transportation
Department, and also various other agencies of what we can do in our areas. We
are responsible for the County roads. I hear what JoAnn is saying and it could be
great if I could walk sidestep with the State but we can control our County roads.
So we are working in a County jurisdiction. I am taking longer than I want to, but I
think you are going to see some results in at least the first seven of our Safe Routes
to School projects at the elementary schools. You will see results of traffic calming
devices that we are going to implement. There will be extra signage. I had
feedback from the principal at Koloa school, from what we did do over there already,
just very low cost before we relaunch the in-road lighting crosswalk and so forth. In
the same time, we redesigned that to also include bicycle lanes and more pedestrian
facilities, and at very low cost. We cannot eat the elephant in one bite so we are
taking it one bite at a time. We are working with schools, the principal, and parent
association and we are getting their feedback. We are creating these plans and like
I said, you will be seeing some work really start rolling in the middle of September
forward with the low cost options.
Mr. Chang: I understand what you are saying. My
concern is, we just chatted about the Hanalei Bridge yesterday. You slow and you
stop. We are on Kaua`i and it is such a mellow place that everybody works two or
three or four jobs and it just seems as though everybody is in a rush. When you are
in a car it is a different story because you do not realize how fast. It is almost like a
weapon but I think when you jog, walk, or bike you realize how fast people are going
by. I just really think there needs to be a public educational component out there
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that we all have to slow down and be careful. Like you say, when there are long
distances without people near you, but even with people near you, it does not seem
like the motorists care. They just fly right by. I just was thinking that maybe there
is an education component out there that maybe we might be overlooking,
something that we can implement.
Mr. Tabata: We have that component. It is with Get Fit
Kaua`i. We have got several—four or five different task force.
Mr. Chang: Thank you.
Ms. Nakamura: Any other questions? Councilmember
Kuali`i. Then, afterwards we can wind up.
Ms. Yukimura: As you think about it, Complete Streets has
a lot to do with not just moving people on the streets but what is happening around
those streets. This discussion about place making is very important of what draws
people there in the first place. What I tend to then wonder about is we are talking
about Government, County, State, but the partnership with private industry. Right
now, I see places like in Wal-Mart, the McDonalds. Everybody gathers there. The
old people have coffee for hours and socialize. It is a gathering place. It is one of
those places. The bowling alley. Outside of the bowling alley there is a tiny little
area with a couple of tables. The Pho restaurant. People gather there too, but it is
all private, so how does the street and what happens around there connect with
private and improve that and move it in the direction you are talking about.
Mr. Toth: Right. That can be done. I know that Marie
and some of the other folks are already working on a—she had to step out but we
were talking yesterday about working on dealing with development and
redevelopment and how to take these principles and make it seamless.
Ms. Nakamura: Chair Furfaro, then we are going to wrap it
up.
Council Chair Furfaro: One of the pieces I am most concerned with
is really the number of pedestrian injuries. The City and County of Honolulu has
huge issues right now as these inner streets get connected. The presentation that
you made for us with the little island where you can walk from one section of
watching traffic to an island with a treat seems to be a really unique concept. You
talked about Kihei. They added one roundabout. But Kihei is a city I referred to
when I was General Manager at Wailea. It is the city of no left-hand turns. You
will wait forever.
Mr. Toth: How do you say that in Hawaiian?
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COUNCIL WORKSHOP SEPTEMBER 6, 2012
Council Chair Furfaro: But it creates a pedestrian problem for
people coming down blind streets and turning right. Those are the kinds of things
that I am very concerned with. Kahului and Wailuku. Wailuku is the old town,
Kahului is the new town. Here we have Puhi as the new town and Lihuce as the old
town. You have those kinds of issues that I would think we would want to get the
old towns as walk-friendly as possible. You cannot use these crosswalks here on the
corner of Rice Street by the museum. Yet, we have a lot of foot traffic. I just
wanted to say that pedestrians and safe crossings are extremely valuable in
anything that we do in our walking streets and where we want to be. There is a lot
of issues of safety. A lot of issues.
Mr. Toth: You folks are off to a very good start. You
are making a lot of progress already. I was talking to working with your engineers
yesterday, folks like Larry, Wally, Lyle, and Chris. I do not remember all of the
names that are in there. They are getting this. We were talking about the
possibility of a mid-block crossing on Rice Street. I suggested something, Wally was
not that comfortable with what I had suggested, but he came back with an
alternative. There is that creativity. And you have that talent amongst your staff.
There are all these other resources like the living street guide and bike guide.
Council Chair Furfaro: I am glad to hear you say that they are
getting it because in this corner right here, this is not a crossable walkway. At
lunchtime, it is almost as bad as the city of no left turns.
Mr. Toth: I would like to say that it took us 50 years to
mess up some of what we have. It will take us, like what Lyle said, we are not
going to eat this elephant in one bite but yes, you are right. I saw it. We walked
around Rice Street. I would not come back here as a tourist to walk around Rice
Street.
Ms. Nakamura: Well, maybe when you come back in a few
years it may be a different experience. Like Gary, Kate, Lyle, Bev Brody; thank you
very much for helping to organize this presentation. Thank you so much, Larry, for
being here the whole time and showing your commitment to this. We really want to
thank Get Fit Kauai Built Environment Task Force for all of the work that you are
doing. This is a huge shift for Kaua`i and the resources you are bringing to this
island and to this County to educate and train so that we have the internal capacity
to carry out this Complete Street policy is incredible and we thank you very much.
For the leadership of the County and actually the community to carry out this is
very deeply appreciated as well. We are building that internal capacity and
working towards actual results so thank you very much. Councilmember
Yukimura, thank you also as well.
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There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 11:59 a.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Mb/ / oi &
Codie Yamauchi
Secretary