HomeMy WebLinkAbout10/10/2012 Regular Council Minutes COUNCIL MEETING
OCTOBER 10, 2012
The Council Meeting of the Council of the County of Kaua`i was called to
order by the Council Chair at the Council Chambers, 4396 Rice Street, Room 201,
Lihu`e, Kauai, on Wednesday, October 10, 2012 at 9:21 a.m., after which the
following members answered the call of the roll:
Honorable Tim Bynum (present 12:30pm)
Honorable Dickie Chang
Honorable KipuKai Kuali`i
Honorable Nadine K. Nakamura
Honorable Mel Rapozo
Honorable JoAnn A. Yukimura
Honorable Jay Furfaro
APPROVAL OF AGENDA.
Mr. Chang moved for approval of the agenda as circulated, seconded by
Mr. Kuali`i.
Chair Furfaro: We have a correction to the agenda regarding the
First Reading of the Bill: Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2452). County Clerk, may you
clarify the amendment.
RICKY WATANABE, County Clerk: Councilmembers and Chair for Bill
(No. 2452) the Bill currently reads: A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE REGARDING
ARTICLE 1, CHAPTER 19 OF THE KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS
AMENDED, RELATING TO PARKS AND RECREATION PROHIBITING
FISHING AT LYDGATE BEACH PARK POND. It should read and be reflective of
the Bills title: AN ORDINANCE ADDING A NEW SECTION TO ARTICLE 1,
CHAPTER 19 OF THE KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED, RELATING
TO PARKS AND RECREATION (Prohibiting Fishing at Lydgate Beach Park Pond).
Chair Furfaro: Would everyone so note the correction on the
agenda. Now may I ask for an approval on the agenda as amended.
Mr. Chang moved to approve as amended, seconded by Mr. Kuali`i, and
unanimously carried.
Chair Furfaro: Before we move to the next item, the formal
recording of the minutes, I would like to give Councilwoman Nakamura a moment
of personal privilege.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you, Chair. This morning we wanted to
acknowledge and celebrate the birthday of our Council Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much.
Ms. Nakamura: We know we have all given you gray hairs within
the last few years but we appreciate all of your work and commitment to this
COUNCIL MEETING 2 OCTOBER 10, 2012
position and to the County of Kaua`i, and thank you for that. As our collective
birthday gift, we will all work toward getting out of this meeting by 4:30 pm today.
Chair Furfaro: That is a very nice gift. Thank you all for wishing
me a Happy Birthday and in two (2) years I have hit sixty-six (66) and let us hope
that they do not move social security back again. Thank you very much.
MINUTES of the following meetings of the Council:
August 15, 2012 Special Council Meeting
September 5, 2012 Council Meeting
September 19, 2012 Special Council Meeting
September 19, 2012 Public Hearing re: Bill No. 2447 and Bill No. 2448
September 26, 2012 Public Hearing re: Bill No. 2444, Bill No. 2445,
Bill No. 2446 and Bill No. 2449
Mr. Chang moved to approve the Minutes as circulated, seconded by
Mr. Kuali`i, and unanimously carried.
SPECIAL ORDER OF THE DAY:
TIM BYNUM was noted as recused from this item.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Clerk, according to our rules, we have had
three (3) previous sessions on item number C 2012-336 dealing with the Keiki
P.O.H.A.K.U. Diversion Program. By our rules, it becomes the first item on today's
agenda. I also want to say to the public that I am going to focus on our Rule
Number 6 and 6(F), which allows the Chair to take public speakers up to three (3)
minutes. Any additional time given is solely up to the Chair. Secondly, I would like
Councilmembers to know that we have had ten and a half hours of discussion on
this item over three (3) meetings and this item is about a $35,000.00 grant. I would
want to be able to take testimony, reach out to some people from the Administration
for questions, and limit time and questions from the Council to two (2), five (5)
minute sessions. After making that statement, if you want to appeal my decision,
you may do so by our rules as well with four (4) votes, if not I would like to start a
discussion of public testimony after I have the item read. If you are planning to
speak, I would like you to speak through signing up so that we can call your name
in advance. Is there anyone wishing to speak, please go to the podium.
While we are collecting the speaker's role, again to the Clerk, I would like the
timer set to three (3) minutes. Please note in the audience we have the County
Attorney, Alfred Castillo and Mr. Gary Heu from the Administration. Do you have
the first speaker? Could you read the ones that you have right now so that they
have a sense of the order?
C 2012-336 Communication (07/20/2012) from the Prosecuting Attorney,
requesting Council approval to apply, receive and expend State of Hawai`i, Office of
Youth Services funds for the Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U. Diversion Program in the amount
of $35,000.00, and approval to indemnify the State of Hawaii, Office of Youth
Services for the term commencing August 15, 2012. (Pursuant to Council Rule 5(C),
Council absence at 10/03/2012 Special Council Meeting, insufficient votes to carry a
motion, special order of the day at the next meeting.)
COUNCIL MEETING 3 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much. Could you read off the
number of people that wish to speak and in the order that they will be speaking?
Mr. Watanabe: We have seven (7) registered speakers and the first
speaker is Glenn Mickens followed by Elaine Dunbar.
Chair Furfaro: Glenn would you come up?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
GLENN MICKENS: Thank you, Jay. For the record Glenn Mickens. I
find it disturbing that the Council has continued to spend countless hours on the
relatively minor grant on the Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U. Diversion Program. Testimony
from both County officials and the public has been unanimous and this Program
will be a worthwhile endeavor. However, approval is being hindered and delayed by
the extended commentary by one Councilmember apparently engaged in a political
witch-hunt. The time the Council should be spending on matters of major
significance rather than on a small grant of State funds. The political motivation
for the Councilwoman's opposition of the Program becomes evident when we
compare it with the absence of needed oversight in review on some of the more
important recent matters. The Olohena Bridge caused the taxpayers 4.8 million
dollars whereas the Act Pro Company who built the bridge over the Wailua River
would have put in a permanent bridge with the traffic rerouted one day not
three (3) months for about $600,000.00. Ironically, at 4:30 a.m. in these Chambers,
Councilwoman Yukimura was the deciding 4-3 vote to give Unlimited Construction
cut $500,000.00 money bill that allowed them to do the project for 4.8 million
dollars.
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me, Glenn. I am going to interrupt you a
second. The agenda item has nothing to do with the bridge and I want to make sure
that we all understand what I said earlier. As the Chair and the leader of this
group, I am going to apply the rules equally and fairly for all. Please stay away
from personal characterizing of the members, of the staff, or the Council. Consider
that a warning.
Mr. Mickens: I understand what you are saying. The whole
situation is grouped together, and I am trying to point out the ridiculousness...
Chair Furfaro: Glenn, I would like to take your testimony. Please
heed the rules of the Council and stay away from any terminology that aggressively
indicates personality.
Mr. Mickens: But how do I do that? I am trying to point out a
certain thing.
Chair Furfaro: Let me say it real simple, avoid personalities,
please.
Mr. Mickens: Okay.
Chair Furfaro: If you would like a copy of the rules that reference
that, I would be glad to get them for you. Go right ahead.
COUNCIL MEETING 4 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Mr. Mickens: I talk again about the amounts of money spent on
the Kilauea Bridge which was 12.2 million dollars and the same Act Pro Company
would have built it for under a million dollars but where was the investingation at
that time for any of the members, JoAnn, in particular. I am sorry...But where was
the investigation you people have to find out why we spent 12.2 million instead of
under a million dollars for this?
Chair Furfaro: Glenn, under our rules you may speak on any item
that you have during your time. During our rules we can only respond to the
agenda item, so do not expect an answer.
Mr. Mickens: Okay, no answer. For eighteen (18) years I have
testified before Councils giving PowerPoints and facts showing where we are costing
taxpayers millions of dollars by wrongly resurfacing our roads. But year after year
the rubber stamp came down on repaving this with no one questioning what was
being done until Larry Dill was hired as our County Engineer, which I really
appreciate. The Hanapepe Drug Center wrongly being cited for the Salt Pond cost
us $500,000.00. Twenty (20) years or more of not getting a new landfill will cost us
a million dollars per year in Solid Waste Program. The eighteen (18) year Kilauea
Gym debacle costed us hundreds of thousands of dollars, the Path costing us over
five million dollars per mile and our Auditor's excellent report showing that we paid
$750.00 per square foot to build a new fire station and it was built two hundred
(200) or three hundred (300) yards from the ocean where a hurricane or tsunami
would destroy it.
Chair Furfaro: Your time is up, Glenn. Summarize quickly.
Mr. Mickens: Okay.
Chair Furfaro: If you are summarizing, summarize on Keiki
P.O.H.A.K.U. not on all the challenges the Chief Engineer has had or all the things
that you interpert as a short coming, summarize on Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U.
Mr. Mickens: The waste and inconsistancy in our government I
am sure that any of you, Councilmembers, can add to the list. My point is that our
mo has to be consistent. We cannot nitpick about a small amount being given for a
grant and ignore the millions that are being wasted on other activities. The waste
that have occurred are self evident. But if we were to have better government we
should pay careful attention to the projects that cost us millions of dollars and not
nitpick about a small amount that we need to receive from a grant.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. That was fair enough time for a
summary.
Mr. Mickens: Okay. Thank you, Jay.
Mr. Watanabe: The next speaker is Elaine Dunbar, followed by
Ken Taylor.
Chair Furfaro: Elaine, I know that you heard my comment earlier
and know you will structure your comments towards Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U. and its
benefits. But I need to just remind the audience that we want to avoid
personalities.
COUNCIL MEETING 5 OCTOBER 10, 2012
ELAINE DUNBAR: I am clear on that.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you Elaine.
Ms. Dunbar: Good morning Mr. Chair and Councilmembers.
Years ago when you, Councilmembers would come into these Chambers, you might
find clean ashtrays at each seat so that you can smoke cigarettes, cigars, pipes or
whatever it may be during Council sessions. But times have changed and now
there are laws against almost everything nowadays. The kids cannot smoke in the
parks and they cannot congregate with more than two (2) people. I know on O`ahu,
three (3) kids congregating is considered gang activity and they can be prosecuted
for that. There is a myriad of charges that a child can easily find himself being
charged with. This could happen through the extreme peer pressure that is out
there, or this could happen through inadvertently experimenting with a drug and
substances that nowadays are engineered for their high addiction capabilities. It is
very easy for a kid to start down a path without even realizing what has been
happening to them. When this happens to a lot of children that have parents that
are well-to-do, it gets wiped clean. They do not have to carry it around for the rest
of that their lives, but when it happens to most of our local kids here it is
devastating. The judicial system pretty much makes their bones on kids. The kids
get charged which starts from the charge to the Prosecutor's Office to the Public
Defenders Office, which is equally a part of this, because the Public Defenders
Office usually works with the Prosecutor's Office to get plea deals which is not in
the best interest of the child, and the child is threatened and told that if they do not
take this plea they will be sentenced to years in jail. They terrify them. A child
cannot possibly understand how the judicial system works and what is truly really
facing them unless they have a qualified Attorney or an Attorney that is not so
overwhelmed with cases that they cannot devote the amount of attention to them
that they need to give them a fair opportunity. So with all of these things facing
kids nowadays, let us say they get caught smoking in the park because Council has
decided that this is a really terrible thing to do, so the child gets charged with
smoking in the park. He is also hanging out with other kids, that may be smoking
pot and he gets hauled in on that, there may be a sticker violation on his vehicle
that he is near.
Chair Furfaro: Go ahead and summarize.
Ms. Dunbar: I will try real fast. So all of these charges are
attached to the child on this one (1) arrest. He goes to court on them, the violations
get handled separately. So there are numerous court appearances and then the
child gets contempt of court, which could easily happen. It is a very understandable
situation. Maybe their license has been taken away, they cannot get there, they do
not have the money. Everything is expensive these days and all of these charges
are profoundly expensive. There are hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars
for most of the kids combined. Teen Court and D.A.G. pleas do not address this
situation, this is a compounded situation for kids. Once it happens to them, the
system gives up on them. When the system gives up on them, they give up on
themselves and then guess what happens after that? Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U. is sorely
needed and was needed a long time ago. It can wipe away a few of these ridiculous
charges, and they are not always ridiculous, but they are not serious enough to
punish the child for the rest of their life, where he cannot get a job, cannot be
respected by the community or family members or is ostracized. There is a string of
circumstances that occur from not being able to allow the child to have a fresh start
COUNCIL MEETING 6 OCTOBER 10, 2012
when he has time to think about what he did and what he wants to do in his future.
Thank you. That is all that I have to say.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you, Elaine. Do you have the next speaker
please?
Mr. Watanabe: The next speaker is Ken Taylor, followed by Joe
Rosa.
KEN TAYLOR: Chair and members of the Council, my name is Ken
Taylor. First of all, I want to agree with the issues that Mr. Mickens raised earlier.
I think that it is really sad that we are here today after twelve hours on this grant
request for $35,000.00. Why has it been happening? Why twelve (12) hours for a
$35,000.00 grant? Why was the issues not asked about the Kilauea Gym? Now how
many more years of work is needed because of the lack of taking care of the
problem. $750,000.00 per square foot for the fire station, where was the oversight?
The lost of opportunity cost twenty (20) years of no landfill, what happened to the
500 000.00 for the drug center in Hana e -? For g p pe or eighteen (18) or twenty (20)
years Mr. Mickens has raised the issues about the roads. What was done to solve
the problems that Glenn raised? Finally Morgan's pond, thousands of dollars are
being sp ent and no plan to solve the problem yet.
Chair Furfaro: Ken, let me tell you something, although you have
a broad range the final decision is mine and I want you to get back to your time on
Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U. I will gladly meet with you to talk about...even when I was not
on the Council when these things happened, I will be glad to research any
information that you want and provide it to you. I want to stay focused because I
am only allowing people one speaking term according to our rules. You may
continue, but if you have something to say about Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U., please focus
on this item...
Mr. Taylor: I am just saying that if we are going to spend time,
twelve (12) plus hours on nitpicking a $35,000.000 grant, than lets be consistent
and nitpick everything that requires spending money.
Chair Furfaro: We are in recess.
There being no objections, the Council recessed at 9:42 a.m.
The Council reconvened at 9:42 a.m., and proceeded as follows:
Mr. Taylor: The P.O.H.A.K.U. Program is a highly needed
Program for the County and for the young people of the County that have gone
astray. It is time to stop this monkey business and get on with approval of this
P.O.H.A.K.U. Program grant. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you Ken. Next registered speaker.
Mr. Watanabe: The next speaker is Joe Rose followed by Bryson
Ponce.
Mr. Rapozo: Mr. Chair?
Chair Furfaro: Yes.
m
COUNCIL MEETING 7 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Mr. Rapozo: If I may, I just wanted to raise a point of order and
maybe we can have the Clerk research. I mean no disrespect to the Chair, but our
rules provide for two (2) opportunities to speak by the public. That is in our rules
and I will cite the rule 12(E), 4(F) and (G). In (F) it says that in oral presentations
shall be limited to three (3) minutes per speaker, extended time may be granted by
the Chair and the Chair shall have the prerogative to set the speaking to for each
speaker and may also set the order of speakers and so forth. But (G) says members
of public shall be allowed to speak a second time on the same question and such
speakers will be allowed an additional three (3) minutes to present testimony. After
all such speakers have testified the Chair may allow an additional four (4) minutes.
I want to make sure that we are consistent at every meeting and it is two (2)
opportunities at three (3) minutes. But the Chair also has the right, and this is the
warning that the Chair talked about earlier and I agree with him, that the Chair
may restrict or terminate a speaker's right to the floor for intemperate or abusive
behavior or language and I would agree with that. But I think our rules clearly
states that the members of public have two opportunities of three minutes each to
speak on any item Mr. Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. If you so do want to vote to overrule my
ruling that is fine with me, because you have that privilege. But I want to make a
note that it does not reference, the fact that eo le are here for the third session
P p
and the sixth time speaking. That is what is not clear so I am giving everyone a
chance to speak for three (3) minutes. But many people who have spoken and are
planning to speak again today have had time to give testimony over the last several
meetings, three (3) or four (4) times so we will leave it at that. Okay?
Mr. Rapozo: Mr. Chair, I am not going to challenge the ruling
now. However, if there is a member of the public that wishes to speak for a second
time, then I will. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rosa, you have the floor.
JOE ROSA: Good morning members of the Council. For the
record, Joe Rosa. Well I am here today again, I thought that the subject of
P.O.H.A.K.U., Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U. was done and solved last week Wednesday. But
like Council Chair mentioned, it has been ten and a half hours which is utterly
ridiculous for a simple grant of $35,000.00 which was given to the people of Kaua`i
to go and enforce and get this P.O.H.A.K.U. thing started. It is solely based upon a
bias animosity between two (2) people and it has been going on and on. Jay, as
Council Chairman, you have been on the Council previously, you have seen that
happen before in previous Councils when the two (2) people were on the Council. I
do not know how you cannot see that. It is a basic bias problem. Why do the
parties have to know how the people are going to be selected to go to Keiki
P.O.H.A.K.U.? That is not her business and not her department. It is solely up to
the courts. So I do not know why if I were to give you $35,000.00 that you would
not accept it with nothing to be repaid or anything. I would take the $35,000.00 and
would have a ball. So why the particular party has to be concerned with how they
are going to select the kids to go to Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U.? That is none of their
business because they have a Committee and they have the courts to select. So you
know, that meeting that was held last week Wednesday, I stayed three and a
half(3 'A) hours early in the morning, only to hear it was continuing in the
afternoon, and so I went on to continue my other chores. It should have been
stopped by the Council Chairman, because you asked for public information and the
COUNCIL MEETING 8 OCTOBER 10, 2012
public came. We heard from the County Attorney and the Prosecuting Attorney,
herself based on a letter and it spelled out what the grant was for and yet, all of this
silly discussion which accomplished nothing and it is still going on today. We elect
people with integrity and it has not been shown. It seems like it is something that
is being done in elementary schools, not like people with integrity. It is high time
that you people get together and forget the bias between personalities and get this
thing done. $35,000, $35,000, take it and do what has to be done with the intent of
the $35,000.00 grant. I thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Mr. Rosa, I just wanted to point out a couple
things. The reason that it is back is by our rules.
Mr. Rosa: Yes, I understand that Jay.
Chair Furfaro: By our rules. Do you understand that sir?
Mr. Rosa: I understand that, I am not ignoring the fact that...
g g
Chair Furfaro: So do not imply that the leadership has failed. Our
rules for any money bill, you needed four (4) votes. Both times...
Mr. Rosa: Yes, I understand that.
Chair Furfaro: Both times you have not succeeded to get four (4)
votes.
Mr. Rosa: But Jay the thing is you are always emphasizing I
am the Chair and I go by my rules, but it is high time that you show that leadership
and say and conduct it...
Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much.
Mr. Rosa: So...
Chair Furfaro: Thank you...
Mr. Rosa: So Jay like the old saying, "if you cannot stand the
heat in the kitchen..."
Chair Furfaro: Following the rules means you need four (4) votes,
you do not get four (4) votes then it automatically comes back as the first item. You
understood..
Mr. Rosa: I understand.
Mr. Chair: You understood? Thank you Joe. Next speaker.
Mr. Watanabe: The next speaker is Bryson Ponce followed by Tina
Sakamoto.
BRYSON PONCE: Good morning. Bryson Ponce for the record.
Chairman Furfaro, Happy Birthday, members of the Council. Nothing has changed
my position as far as supporting the Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U. Program. The reason that
I am here is because the last time there were some questions that a couple
COUNCIL MEETING 9 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Councilmembers had that was asked of me to follow up on. I have some answers for
you folks and I will just go over them. This relates to when I brought up last time
about Maui with the P.O.I. Program that is very similar to what Kaua`i wants to do
with the Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U. Program. The P.O.I. Program which is Positive
Outreach Intervention Program holds juveniles accountable for their actions.
Federally-funded to the Juvenile Accountability Block Grant from the Office of the
Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevent, U.S. Department of Justice. The
Program has been in existence since 1999 and the first graduating class was
actually in January of 2000. Since 1999, there has been only a 12% recidivism rate,
which is extremely successful. There have been seventy-four (74) graduations, and
seven hundred and twenty four (724) graduates. What do they do in this Program-
this P.O.I. Program? The juvenile offenders have to write an apology letter to the
victim or victims, they have got to submit an essay on their involvement in the
offense or the type of crime, provide a minimmum of four (4) days which is
Saturdays of community service, attend a second-chance class which focuses on
laws, moral issues, choices, etc., they actually have to observe an adult criminal
court proceeding, and also remain arrest-free. What do they do in the Program?
Well they help the elderly community cleaning up their yards, their gardens and
work outside of the residence. Not inside the house, but outside to avoid any
temptation if juveniles are into thefts or stealing money and jewelry. They focus on
the outside of the elderly's homes, they go to the lo'i in `Ioa Valley and learn about
the cultural aspect of growing taro from growing, cleaning, preparing of the taro,
caring for the taro, help other non-profit organizations, and help with community
functions and help clean and maintain other areas in the community. This is just
some information to touch upon last time and that is all I have.
Chair Furfaro: We have a question for you.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes. Thank you, Bryson for doing that research
and bringing the information back.
Mr. Ponce: Sure.
Ms. Yukimura: So who administers the Program?
Mr. Ponce: It is through the Juvinille Crime Prevention
Division from the Maui Police Department, the Juvinelle Counselor in charge of it is
Ann Nakagawa.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay.
Mr. Ponce: They have counselors, police officers, retired and
current military personnel helping in the fields and mentoring these kids.
Ms. Yukimura: So Ms. Nakagawa and her unit is the one that
recruits these volunteer supervisors and screens them presummably too?
Mr. Ponce: Yes, she is in charge of the Program.
Ms. Yukimura: And...
Mr. Ponce: I did ask her this question because in Maui they do
not have Teen Court in Maui.
COUNCIL MEETING 10 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Ms. Yukimura: Oh they do not?
Mr. Ponce: They do not. So I asked her, "on Kauai we have
Teen Court, how do you think this could work with having Teen Court in the P.O.I.
Program?" She told me that it would be great. One idea that I have is that Teen
Court could be the first avenue for the other teens to judge your peers and then they
could sentence them to the P.O.I. Program which could work hand in hand. She
thought it was great idea to have both.
Ms. Yukimura: That has been some of my questions. What is going
to be the flow of diversion and who is giong to make the decision that the child is
best starting at Teen Court?
Mr. Ponce: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: That is what I have been asking. How much does
this Program cost to implement?
Mr. Ponce: The initial implementation back in 1999 was
somewhere about $15,000.00. They have to buy tools to clean up areas, they get
shirts for the kids and the volunteers to wear so that everybody is identifiable. Ever
since then, it costs less than $10,000.00 a year to run the Program and she said it
could even be run a little less.
Ms. Yukimura: Well, it costs $10,000.00 but what is the amount of
people within the Police Department unit and...
Mr. Ponce: Maui is different because they have people that are
paid on overtime, officers, and that other factor, or that number, I do not have. But
initially I think for Kaua`i, there has not been the police factor involved in the onset
and it might be in the future, I am not sure. You could use military personnel or
drill sergeants sometimes work really good with the teens.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay, so right now to your knowledge there is not a
specific plan to involve the Police Department here?
Mr. Ponce: I do not know. I cannot answer that. I am just
speaking in support of the program.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Thank you very much.
Mr. Ponce: If I could add one thing, I am not speaking on
behalf of the Police Department. I am speaking on behalf of Police Union, so those
hard questions that you guys would have for our police personnel, they did not bring
up the issue of P.O.I., I did. So I just wanted to throw that out there, that they do
not have the knowledge that I have because I know Ann and this presentation was
given, I sat in her class and talked to her about it.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you for the homework that you did, it is very.
valuable information. I appreciate it.
Mr. Ponce: Okay.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo.
COUNCIL MEETING 11 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Mr. Rapozo: Bryson, are you aware that Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U. and
the P.O.I. Program are very different in the sense of who administers it?
Mr. Ponce: Yes.
Mr. Rapozo: Obviously the P.O.I. is done by Maui, the Juvenile
Division.
Mr. Ponce: That is correct.
Mr. Rapozo: Does Kaua`i Police even have a Juvenile Crime
Prevention Unit?
Mr. Ponce: No.
Mr. Rapozo: Exactly. And to your understanding is Keiki
P.O.H.A.K.U. not going to be run by an external contractor?
Mr. Ponce: Yes.
Mr. Rapozo: So it is different and I explained this at the last
meeting that the only similarity is that it is a Diversion Program and infuses the
cultural practices into the actual Diversion Program.
Mr. Ponce: You are right.
Mr. Rapozo: But it is two (2) separate Programs.
Mr. Ponce: But as far as running the Program, it is different.
Mr. Rapozo: Right.
Mr. Ponce: What I was talking about was the concept of the
Program, why I support the concept, and why it is a good idea.
Mr. Rapozo: I appreciate that. I did go to the website, the Maui
website-Maui Police and there is quite a bit of information on the P.O.I. Program
and it is a very succesful Program. But I think that as far as the cost, they have
several counselors on staff, correct?
i
Mr. Ponce: Yes, they do.
Mr. Rapozo: With the Maui Police Department. So the
$10,000.00 that you talk about is really the hard costs to operate the Program and
not the soft costs involving all of the arrests, the personnel`and overtime.
Mr. Ponce: • Yes, that is correct.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you.
Ms. Yukimura: One more question, do you know what the overtime
costs are for police involvement in the P.O.I. Project?
Mr. Ponce: I do not know.
COUNCIL MEETING 12 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you for your testimony. Next registered
speaker.
Mr. Watanabe: The next registered speaker is Tina Sakamoto
followed, by Dr. Ka-ni Blackwell.
TINA SAKAMOTO: Good morning, and Happy Birthday Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you.
Ms. Sakamoto: And Councilmembers, hello. My name is Tina
Sakamoto and I am a resident of Kaua`i. The other day I was shopping and I looked
at a garment and it said, "one size fits all." I looked and said no one size does not fit
all, nor does one Diversion Program work for all. I had the opportunity...no it was a
privilege, I had the privilege to work and assist with a Native-American culturally-
based Diversionary Program, where we were able to unite women who were
participating in a substance-abuse program with their children over a three-day
camp period. I saw positive results, and it was proven that this culturally-based
program worked. It worked for the mothers and it worked for the keiki. So I urge
you and I am asking you to move forward in favor of this Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U.
Program for the people and for the children of Kauai. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Questions? Thank you.
Ms. Sakamoto: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Next speaker.
Mr. Watanabe: The last registered speaker is Dr. Ka-ni Blackwell.
DR. KA-NI BLACKWELL: Aloha.
Chair Furfaro: Aloha.
li Ms. Blackwell: My name is Dr. Ka-ni, K-A-N-I. I am an educator
and I have been involved with the P.O.H.A.K.U. Program previously when it was
being offered. We are all for assisting our youths to make the right choices, as
parents and as community members to fulfill their potential and to be our future
citizens. When things go awry, we need to be there guiding them back. The Keiki
P.O.H.A.K.U. Program does just that with Hawaiian values, self-reflection, and
individual participation in change of attitudes and behaviors. I have a degree in
cognitive psychology and I have worked with this Program to see changes in at the
adults. That is harder than changing teens who are still formulating their
experience. The change and the second chance is paramount to their future. Many
of our local youth do not have the resources, the money, the background, the
families sometimes to be able to afford that second chance and yet the P.O.H.A.K.U.
and Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U. Program would do just that. Should the Program be
questioned, held accountable and even perhaps scrutinized? Yes. That is part of
your job. But it is time for the Council to move forward and approve this Program.
$35,000.00 is a very small investment in our youth, our community of youths
especially the local keiki that we need to give a second chance with tools,
COUNCIL MEETING 13 OCTOBER 10, 2012
alternatives, and positive ways to not do it again. This is extremely important and I
know all of you really want the same thing. But you have got to realize that we are
not Maui. We d not have the resources, the programs, the counselors, the overtime
payment. We do not even have a criminal justice system. We are grassroot people
and we are trying our very best through the P.O.H.A.K.U. Programs to give
something back that we can do to give that second chance to our youth and to our
adults. So please move on, be in favor of this, pass it and show the community that
you do care and that you are going to be supporting this program. Mahalo.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you.
Ms. Blackwell: Yes, JoAnn?
Chair Furfaro: No. We are talking so much about rules today and
to the audience, let me recognize you to give you the additional time.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you Chair and thank you, Dr. B for coming
and for your input. I know how much you care about our young people. You said
we do not have a juvenile justice system. Can you explain what you mean by that?
Ms. Blackwell: JoAnn, I am sorry, I am a little hard-of-hearing.
Would you speak up, please?
Ms. Yukimura: Oh, sure. You said, I think I heard you say that we
do not have a juvenile justice system and I just wondered what you meant by that?
Ms. Blackewell: Well like Maui, they a Complete C lete Criminal
p
Division, do they not? A Juvenile Criminal Division and I do not think we do.
Ms. Yukimura: We do not and it was because of lack of money and
a decision that I am not really familiar with. But if we feel that is important, we
can put some money there. So what you are talking about building is what I feel I
am asking questions about in terms of what is a system that would work best?
Ms. Blackwell: But...
Ms. Yukimura: Go ahead.
Ms. Blackwell: But in the meantime, the Program that is offered to
you is very cost effective in what we are investing in?
Ms. Yukimura: How do you know that?
Ms. Blackwell: I have been investing in youth all of my life and
that is forty-seven (47) years of a career in education. My personal opionion is that
because P.O.H.A.K.U. is based upon Hawaiian values it makes a lot of self-
reflection and choices and that is what the youth need do is better choices.
Ms. Yukimura: Who do you think should make the decision about
which child goes into which Diversion Program?
Ms. Blackwell: That I am unfamiliar with. I am just familiar with
working with the youth. Who chooses, how they get there, I really am unsure of
how that is done. I just know that when they come to the program, if I am involved
COUNCIL MEETING 14 OCTOBER 10, 2012
or other quality people that are really there to help them, I do not even question
why they are there. I look at the individuals.
Ms. Yukimura: Do you not think that someone who make these
decisions about young people needs to have your kind of background in terms of an
understanding of youth development?
Ms. Blackwell: It could be done in partnership, but I think the
legal system, which I am very unknowledgeable about, I do not know how they
would want a layperson like myselfs opinion. They have to follow, just like I am
sure there are all kinds of rules that must be abided by. They have parameters and
boundaries in which they need to work. So I am not at that level and I really don't
want to be. I see a good Program that does not cost that much that is going to
immediately help. If you want to do a long-term plan with the Criminal Justice
Program or whatever is needed, but right now there are many youth and they get
older and older. If they do not get that second chance, their lives have been
impacted so devastatingly that they cannot be the kind of citizens that we want for
the future.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you very much, Dr. B.
Ms. Blackwell: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Dr., we have another question from Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you for being here. I rememebr you being
here in the past getting recognized for your accomplishments. I know you said you
are an educator, but you have been involved in education and psychology for quite a
while.
Ms. Blackwell: Yes.
Mr. Rapozo: I also heard you say you were familiar and maybe
participates in the P.O.H.A.K.U. Programs?
Ms. Blackwell: Yes.
Mr. Rapozo: Do you think that it is working?
Ms. Blackwell: It has not had had a chance. There were only
three (3) classes for the P.O.H.A.K.U. Program. But the people who were in it, they
were all locals, who got to see a different way of looking at the system. It was
working and if you go by statistics you have to look at recidivism and see if they do
continue on a positive path? But that takes time. So I cannot say it is that
successful, but as an educator of forty-seven years (47), absolutely. The Program
was actually devised around a psycological base of self-reflection, looking at society,
looking at rules, looking at different things, and how you fit in. To see a change in
that attitude and behavior, you know, blue lights, who cares? Well, it is against the
law and we look at things deeper. So yes, it was and it was an eight (8) hour
intensive class for these participants.
Mr. Rapozo: Did you notice a change or did you get the feeling
that they were getting it?
COUNCIL MEETING 15 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Ms. Blackwell: Oh yes. But they had to write it out.
P
Mr. Rapozo: Correct.
Ms. Blackwell: They had to write a statement at the end what they
proposed to do. You cannot just do verbiage...
Mr. Rapozo: Correct.
Ms. Blackwell: It has to be action so I do not know if they follow
through, but they sure seem like they would. They were able to recognize what they
had done and to understand more about law-abiding citizens. It may seem simple-
driving without a license, but to be affected the rest of your life, you know? They
had to see it's the rules, it is the laws. We need to be part of society and contribute,
and then to have service connected to it was wonderful.
Mr. Rapozo: I think you would agree and maybe you do not
know this, but I do not think the courtroom and jail does that.
Ms. Blackwell: I bristled and apologized to the man who said it but
but drill sergeants working with these keiki, it is like that is one of the reasons why
they are there. They have authoritative issues and to put someone in their face
saying do it or else, it does not always work and I think that is why we get the
youth rebelling. So having an approach that you are looking at the individual to be
able to contribute to society and to have social justice among our system. Everyone
cannot afford the same thing. This is why I feel this Program is so needed.
Mr. Rapozo: There is some suggestions that maybe the lay
people like yourself would make the referral or determine who goes, but do you feel
you are in that capacity? I mean even with forty-seven (47) years of educating and
being part of the community, but a referral is done after many, many considerations
are done. Not just with the violator, but with the Police Department, the Courts,
the Prosecutor's Office and lot of those records are confidential. A lot of those
records are private. Do you feel that would be appropriate for you?
Ms. Blackwell: No.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Councilwoman Nakamura.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you Doctor, for being here.
Ms. Blackwell: Thank you.
Ms. Nakamura: Your personal and your professional opinion is very
important to me and I thank you for your insights. I have a question because I
think that everyone realizes that the amount of funding available to this Program is
really a start. It would allow the County to get started, but also recognizing that it
could be a bigger and better thing with more lasting impacts if designed right.
Would you be open to a process that looks at that bigger picture on what we might
be able to do, if there is some leadership and commitment to doing that?
COUNCIL MEETING 16 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Ms. Blackwell: Absolutely. If it effects our youth and our
community, as you know, I am a University professor and I had to go back to work
this semester. But I do plan to really retire in December. I looked at all
possibilities in our community. What did I want to do? Where were my strengths?
What would I want to give back to the community? I do not want to do Hawaii, I
just want to do Kauai. I definitely do not want to get into politics and I commend
all of you who do serve. But my serving is at a different level and it is for education,
and this is basically education. This Program is educating and getting the keiki to
look differently at what and where they are. If it involved the planning, I would
never want to be involved in the legal system to choose since that is out of my
expertise, but in advising and helping our community, absolutely.
Ms. Nakamura: So would you be willing to participate in a process
that builds on this type of concept, but looks at maybe the long-term services that
might be needed and how those services could be coordinated on the island?
Ms. Blackwell: Absolutely, and as we all know service is where it
starts. We have to give service and give of ourselves before we can actually be a
solid citizen. This is what I think would be excellent to do a long-term or a bigger
picture, to say how can you actually be a participant?
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you.
Ms. Blackwell: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Mr. Kualii.
Mr. Kualii: Aloha and mahalo, Dr. Blackwell. You have
answered a lot of questions and a lot of my questions and I am moved by you and I
just had to chime in and say mahalo. Mahalo for your forty-seven (47) years of work
and education is clearly the most important thing that we need to do with our youth
and incorporating the Native Hawaiian values is just a powerful thing. The place, I
mean, the potential is amazing and I really hope we can just get started. Thank
you.
Ms. Blackwell: Okay, thank you, KipuKai.
Chair Furfaro: Vice Chair.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes. Dr. B., you were involved in the P.O.H.A.K.U.
Program right? And so you said that community service is a very important aspect
of it. It is my understanding that the community service requirements were
canceled for people, are you aware of that?
Ms. Blackwell: No, they were not. The reason why I know that is
that some of them thought that and they came up to me at their little break time
and said, "how can...it says now I need to do thirty (30) hours of service." I said,
"well that is with the Prosecutor's Office. I am just here as your guide." So I do not
know about that, but I think every well... I cannot say every, out of thirty (30), I
would say twenty (20) had to do service.
Ms. Yukimura: But was it the full service that was completed?
COUNCIL MEETING 17 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Ms. Blackwell: I do not know, JoAnn. I just know that they had
(X) number of hours and had to do the service in the where they committed the
offense. They had a whole list and were asking my opinion, and I do know
communities, and I say that you will enjoy that you will be helping out there. That
is about the extent to which I was involved
Ms. Yukimura: Alright. Thank you very much.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you Doctor.
Ms. Blackwell: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: There are no more questions from the body. Next
assigned speaker.
Mr. Watanabe: Council Chair, we have one more speaker, Arthur
Brun.
Chair Furfaro: Arthur Brun.
ARTHUR BRUN: My name is Arthur Brun and I am here for the
P.O.H.A.K.U. grant. I guess I do not know why we are even against this grant.
This is for the youth of Kaua`i. I am an ex-drug addict. I started doing drugs when
I was fifteen (15) years old and did it until I was twenty-one (21) and went to a
rehab, that never helped me. I got back on it at thirty years (300 old and I am clean
and sober for eight (8) years now. We need something for the youth. I do not
believe we are thinking about this, but we are supporting the Marathon, which is
not benefiting anybody from Kaua`i. We can give them hundreds of thousands of
dollars, but we cannot help our own youth on Kaua`i. Please pass this so we can
help our youth and I just talked to Big Brothers and Big Sisters and I will be doing
drug talks for them and even with this Program, I will do drug talks for them also.
I got in at thirty (30) years old with ice and I see some of the officers here, who
know me. I was a known as the number one drug dealer on Kauai. I got shot at. I
got all kinds of stuff and now I am redoing my life. This is what we have to do for
the kids and not for people who do not live here. Do it and do it now, because we
cannot be against this grant. It's only what, $30,000 or something? Big deal. This
could benefit our kids of Kaua`i. Please put your personal politics out of this and
help our kids of Kauai. That is just my opinion.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you for coming down. I just have one (1)
question actually maybe two(2). But one is, when you were younger in the teens,
you said you started doing drugs at...
Mr. Brun: Fifteen (15).
Mr. Rapozo: If you had...was there any Programs like this?
Mr. Brun: Not that I know of.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay, that was the first question. Second question
is, if there was one do you think there would be a possibility that your life, not
saying that you life today is a bad one because I think you are doing a lot of good for
the kids today and I know that from personal experience, but you had a really,
really rocky road in between.
COUNCIL MEETING 18 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Mr. Brun: Yes.
Mr. Rapozo: If you had an opportunity for a Diversion Program,
do you think maybe it would have helped?
Mr. Brun: Yes. The thing is that my dad died when I was
four (4) years old and I lived without my dad my whole life. If I had different things
to do in the community, would I have changed the things the way I went? Possibly.
I cannot say yes or no but there was none of this that I know of that was there for
me. All I knew was high school sports which I did not want to do so I started
drinking, doing drugs, fighting chickens, gambling and that was my life in high
school. There was none of this...
Mr. Rapozo: One more I am sorry. I guess I just want to
rephrase this a little different. You work with kids today, a lot of kids, and you help
a lot of kids but do you belive that this program would help some of our kids today?
There are two (2) tracks in life, one they can go through the system and they can
end up in boys home, girls home or eventually prision or a Diversion Program which
could...as the Doctor stated earlier. As she stated this whole new concept, talk
about thinking outside of the box, do you believe that some of our kids today that
you work with may have a second chance with something like this?
Mr. Brun: Yes. Yes.
Mr. you.
Rapozo: Thank
p
Mr. Brun: Another thing that I started was in memory of Max
Ogor, a lot of us heard about him. He was a baseball player from p ye om Waimea that
passed away. I started a Baseball Program that I bring kids to O`ahu travel and try
to keep them off the streets, bring them to clinics with proscouts, college scouts and
try to do that. That is some of stuff that we are doing out of our own pocket. This
Program would help bring more kids out to do and bring out their good things that
they can do instead of turning to drugs and alcohol because there is lot of i
y g g a to tout
there. Please pass the grant because we need to help the kids.
Ms. Yukimura: I just wanted to thank you for comin g speak.s eak. It
is really heartfelt and you speak out of a lot of experience. I know that your mind
and thoughts are about the young people of Kaua`i, so thank you very much.
Mr. Brun: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Chang.
Mr. Chang: Thank you. Mr. Brun, thank you for being here
and thank you for sharing your testimony because I never knew and I am glad that
you came out here today. You started at or around fifteen (15) years old. Was that
in your day about maybe when people started or would you say you started early?
Mr. Brun: Yes, that was about the time in high school.
Mr. Chang: So the interaction that you have with children or
young adults these days, do you have any idea when they start? What would be a...
COUNCIL MEETING 19 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Mr. Brun: Nowadays, seventh grade or eighth grade.
Mr. Chang: That is the information that I have been hearing.
From my generation to your generation down to their generation, the level of drugs
would you say is just way out there and so much more diverse?
Mr. Brun: Yes and much harder. There are a lot more drugs
out there than there used to be before and I guess, education is a key. You cannot
force a kid to not do it, but education is a key to turn them into the right direction of
what they are going to do or what they are not going to do.
Mr. Chang: So you know the drugs are way more heavy-duty,
they are mixing it with, so I am told, drugs, alcohol and everything else. But you
know in many case these smaller, less matured bodies, if you will, that just is a
whole different feeling that it may make these kids way more disturbed but and
cannot be thinking in any rationale way at that point.
Mr. Brun: Yes. They are starting younger and they are just
smaller bodies, and they are not developed yet. We have just have to give them a
chance, give them a chance in life. I am glad I got out when I did and made the best
of what I am doing now. But we need to give these kids a chance to get education
and be aware of what is going on.
Mr. Chang: I just want to thank you, Mr. Brun, because as I
mentioned I never knew and there is a lot of people that we do not know about their
past. But what you do with the youth and for the youth; umpiring or we see on the
side of the road doing your porteguese sausage or what have you, but I just want to
say that I am glad that you straightened out because that is a great testimony for
everyone on Kaua`i.
Mr. Brun: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Brun, thank you very much for being here, and
may I personally congratulate you on your accomplishments. Thank you very
much. Is that the end of our speakers?
Mr. Watanabe: Yes.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: I would like to take a moment of personal privilege
and I want to make sure that the Councilmembers are hearing this as I call the
meeting back together. First and foremost, when you are a leader of a group such
as the Council, it is very important to model the way and in modeling the way I
think that I have been very, very consistent and flexible. But modeling the way and
keeping the decorum is based on having rules. I have tried to apply them as well as
I can. Leadership is also about providing an inspired vision to get this group to a
common vision, it is so very, very important. There is challenges along the way in
leadership and enabling others to act and give them the kind of freedom that they
can express themselves. When this started today, I had said to you that we had ten
and a half hours of previous testimony and sessions. I also want to point out for the
gentlemean in the front that the Chairman has the flexibility of setting the tone
what the speakers want of testify on and I have been very flexible. But I feel today
COUNCIL MEETING 20 OCTOBER 10, 2012
that it has been abused a bit. I would reference you to go to 12(D) of our rules and I
am going to read it. "For the persons who are testifying the Chairman has the
flexibility and tried to limit the testimony only on the subject matter under
consideration and shall ask those that are testifying to refrain from any direct
questioning of the Councilmembers and of the Chair. To the three (3) gentlemen in
front I want to make sure that you understand that 12(D) is what I referenced today
and that is rule. To Mr. Rapozo, if we want to change the rules you have the
privilege, we have a Rules Committee. In 13(F) it also says that the Chair shall
have the perrogative to set the time for the speakers at the Chair's discretion. We
are on our third session of this, I have taken that into consideration. But modeling
the way is also about having parameters and rules and I think the Doctor spoke
very well on that. One thing that I knew from my days in high school playing
football for Larry Ginoza,you follow the rules. If hit a guy that was out of bounds,
you were on the bench. If you tackled somebody using a face mask, you are on the
bench. I just want to make sure that you are understood, the leadership of this
Council is based on modeling a standard, having an inspired vision for the group to
get things accomplished and also enabling others to act, but act within reason and
the parameters of the rules set. Members, thank you for that moment of personal
privilege. If you want to revisit the rules, as a member of this body you have the
authority to go to the Rules Committee.
Now on that note is there a need to have someone from the Administration
up? Mr Barreira, may I ask you to come up first. The rules are now suspended
after I have had my moment of personal privilege. Councilmembers, I would like
you to please be focused on your questions and not carry this through. A lot of
narrative on items that we have already covered.
There being no objection, the rules were suspended.
ERNEST BARREIRA, Assistant Chief Procurement Officer: Good morning
Chair Furfaro, Vice Chair Yukimura, and members of the County Council. Ernie
Barreira, Budget and Purchasing Director.
Chair Furfaro: Did you have a question, Vice Chair?
Ms. Yukimura: There has been some question about the Charter
provisions regarding the Office of the Prosecutor and whether or not there is legal
authority for them to establish a Program like this? Has that been established
between you and the County Attorney?
Mr. Barriera: I cannot speak to that issue. I understand that
there has been a request for a legal analysis. I am not privry to that analysis nor
can I make that analysis.
Ms. Yukimura: But are you not required to know before you go out
to procurement that the is legal authority for the Department that wants to go out
for procurement?
Mr. Barriera: Only if a legal challenge that is raised prior to the
procurement. I believe the legal challenges and questions came up post the
procurement activity.
Ms. Yukimura: Have you asked the County Attorney for an
opinion?
COUNCIL MEETING 21 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Mr. Barriera: I have not, Vice Chair, but I understand that
members of this body have.
Chair Furfaro: The question had gone from the Chair based on the
following: this County accepts $15,000,000.00 a year in grants and donations that
go to various Agencies for their particular mission and task. Example, we get
$10,000,000.00 in grants for the Housing Department. But then the Housing
Department often subcontracts specific developers, who bring the expertise to the
table on affordable housing purchases, rentals, and then subsequently are charged
with the management of those projects. How does that relate to this Charter issue?
That is a question from me. We have other issues that come up, such as Civil
Defense grants. We have other items that come up even in Life's Choices, that
brings us to other challenges when it comes to the structuring of the Administration
on how Life's Choices becomes a functioning body of the Administration or Boards
and Commissions? Those are the questions that went over from the Chairman and I
do not take it as a light issue but one we need have a legal opinion on. Perhaps that
question should be held for the County Attorney and not yourself. Any other
questions? Thank you very much. No other questions.
Mr. Barriera: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Is there anyone else from the Administration that
someone from the Council would like to have come up? County Attorney, has been
requested to come up.
ALFRED B. CASTILLO, County Attorney: Good morning Council
Chair and Councilmembers, Al Castillo, County Attorney.
Chair Furfaro: Al, before we go any further, you were traveling
when I sent the questions over but I sent it over to the First Deputy, Amy Esaki.
Mr. Castillo: Yes. Council Chair on those matters, I believe you
have given us a deadline of October 17th to answer those questions.
Chair Furfaro: That is correct.
Mr. Castillo: We are on our way to doing that. I agree, there is
an understanding that various Agencies have there particular missions and tasks to
do under the Charter. We will be able to answer your questions. I have not read
your particular questions, but I am here for Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U. if anybody wants to
question me about that.
Chair Furfaro: Vice Chair, do you have a question for the County
Attorney?
Ms. Yukimura: Yes. There was a question raised in the last
Council Meeting, I think Councilmember Nakamura raised it. As to whether the
Prosecuting Attorney under the Charter has the authority to oversee or administer
Diversion Programs?
Mr. Castillo: Under the Charter, if you were to specifically read
the Charter provision, the Prosecuting Attorney does have a list of...I would say,
authorizations. It is clear that it does not contain Diversionary Program.
COUNCIL MEETING 22 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Ms. Yukimura: Is this request for a grant that...is that then
illegal?
Mr. Castillo: In terms of the Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U. Program, with
the information that has been provided to us, we cannot find any authority for that
Program at this point in time.
Ms. Yukimura: Have you communicated that to the Office of
Procurement?
Mr. Castillo: Well, right now I have. But see on the procurement
issue I understand the situation where Mr. Barriera is in. What normally happens
is the Agency will go through the procurement process and what we would do is
when a contract is being established, we are sent the draft contract for review. If a
question is raised regarding authority or procurement issues and contract issues,
we would analyze the contract for legality and form.
Ms. Yukimura: But why should we be going through all this time
and effort if it is not legal for the Prosectuing Attorney to administer such a
Program? Do you have a written opinion that documents this?
Mr. Castillo: You raise a good question on the policy question on
the effort that this County is going through at this point...
Ms. Yukimura: I am not asking a policy question, I am asking a
legal question.
Mr. Castillo: I have given you a legal answer from the County
Attorney being that with the information that we have regarding the Keiki
P.O.H.A.K.U. Program there is no authority under our Charter.
Ms Yukimura: Then you should stop this vote, if there is no
authority to do this?
Mr. Castillo: I am sorry but I do not have the authority to stop
this vote, but I can give you my legal opinion.
Chair Furfaro: On that note, if I may interrupt. I want to make
sure that if you are making that decision, we are back to my question that I
answered last week and that is that you measure risk in this County.
Mr. Castillo: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: The Council decides on policy.
Mr. Castillo: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: And understanding the risks for approving a
Program like this, you would participate in?
Mr. Castillo: Yes.
COUNCIL MEETING 23 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Chair Furfaro: And I would think being the Council Chair, in
sending you these questions about all of the other exposure that we have, maybe, as
much as $15,000,000.00 in grants, that you would prepare a legal response to our
question by the deadline I gave you.
Mr. Castillo: Absolutely.
Ms. Nakamura: Al, thank you for responding to my request from
the last meeting. So basically, if that contract comes across your desk, your office
will not sign off on it as to form and legality?
Mr. Castillo: The hard part about this is that I am being asked
to speculate on what the contract will look like, I do not know what the contract will
look like. I am just saying based on the information that I have, if the contract does
not contain the requirements that makes it legal, then we would not sign off.
Ms. Nakamura: What is the basis of your opinion that it is not
legal?
Mr. Castillo: The basis for the opinion, basically primarily comes
out from the Charter. The Prosecutor's Office does have the authority and the
ability to prosecute cases. What does that mean? They can charge, they can decide
not to charge, and when the Prosecutor's Office decides not to charge, then what
happens after that? You know, I have heard some discussion regarding what
happens on Maui. The P.O.I. Program and it is a diversion program, yes. But it is
totally run by the Police Department. So I do not know if I am answering your
question.
Ms. Nakamura: You are just saying that the Diversion Program as
you understand it, being operated and funded...
Mr. Castillo: By the Prosecutor.
Ms. Nakamura: By the O.P.A.?
Mr. Castillo: By the Prosecutor's Office, yes, because in the
Charter, there are areas in which conceivably the Mayor's Office could run a
Diversionary Program. The Police Department could just as the Maui Police
Department. We have been in contact with the coordinator there, Allison Ishikawa.
We have made the comparison and contrast on what is on the agenda today and
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other Diversionary Programs.
Ms. Nakamura: In the past though the Office of the Prosecuting
Attorney has been the vehicle through which many Federal and State grants for
Diversionary Programs has been a past practice. So are you saying that it needs to
cease?
Mr. Castillo: No. What we need is a fact-specific analysis on
each program. For instance, the Teen Court Program, the question that was asked
before, why is that legal? The way that it is constructed-the Teen Court program, it
went through the procurement process, it went through the contract process, it went
through the memorandum of understanding and it has been a long time program for
many years, over a decade. I was there when Kelly Ito was there but the way it was
created was to me legally it was okay. It morphed a little throughout the years and
COUNCIL MEETING 24 OCTOBER 10, 2012
during that process that is where I cannot say that the Teen Court is illegal. But it
does have its legal challenges. Basically if and when the Office of the Prosecuting
Attorney exercises dominion over the Program itself.
Ms. Nakamura: If the O.P.A. just worked as a pass-through, and
did not itself expend funds or help to coordinate portions of the Program, then it
would be okay?
Mr. Castillo: The funding process may be a different question,
which we have not fully...the pass-through, we have not fully vetted out yet legally.
But this is the way that the more that the Office of the Prosecuting Attorney
controls the Program, the more it gets into difficulties with the Charter, because the
Charter basically does not express that authority. Let me simplify the thought
process. The Prosecutor's Office can say we decide not to prosecute and these are
the cases that we are not oin to prosecute because of whatever reason. Now an
g g P
Agency can come up and say, well, Prosecutor, if you are you are not going to
prosecute these cases, then can we have an understanding of what is going to
happen here? If that happens, then it is opinion inion that would not conflict with
Pp pp
Charter.
Chair Furfaro: We are looking for that on October 17th.
Mr. Castillo: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Al, I want to make sure that everybody
understands that we talk about these Special Programs, they have been around a
long time, long time. I mean, 1995, some of these Programs were developed with
Officer Taylor, Officer Ito and then Chief Kyle Fujita. I have done a lot of historical
research on that and funding from these Programs have started with the Police
Department and then have gone to the Mayor's Office under the Youth Services
Director that was in Mayor Kusaka's Administration. She went on to go to the
State Program. The State fell into issues with money in 2008. What used to be a
$60,000.00 grant we got from the State is now less than $5,000.00. The County has
still kept its $18,000.00 for the Prosecutor's Office, and we have gotten $18,000.00
from the Feds and that is a subject for October 17th if we have a commitment. But
these Programs have been in place for over seventeen (17) years and we are coming
upon this question now. I just want to portray to you, that is why the questions
that I sent over to you, it is more than this Program that is of concern. It is concern
of how we then subcontract housing projects, Life's Choices and so forth. It is all of
them.
Mr. Castillo: I understand. Kelly Ito, Chief Fujita, and I was the
Deputy Prosecutor at the time and I went back and looked at the historical basis for
that. Looking at the historical chronology of that particular program, I could
understand how it morphed. But the question here is Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U.
Chair Furfaro: I understand, Al. Counselor, I understand that. I
am saying that the flag should have gone up back in 2007. We had enough history
and that is all I am saying. I look forward to your response on October 17th.
Mr. Castillo: Yes. If it went up, I was in private practice then
and I would not be here right now answering questions.
COUNCIL MEETING 25 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Chair Furfaro: There are several of us that were on the Council in
2007...
Mr. Castillo: I know.
Chair Furfaro: At the time in that ear alone we went through
Y g
three different County Attorney's so I would like to get some clarity on the
interpretation.
Mr. Castillo: Okay.
Chair Furfaro: I look forward to it on the seventeenth.
Mr. Rapozo? Al, I did not understand the answer you gave to
Councilmember Nakamura. What is the difference between this process, which
apparently went through procurement and I guess you said that if nobody raised a
challenge at that point, it goes through. But what is the difference between back
when Teen Court was established, when you said you were a Deputy Prosecutor, is
that what you just said?
Mr. Castillo: Yes.
Mr. Rapozo: Did the Charter back then give the Prosecutor's
Office an express authority do Diversionary Programs?
Mr. Castillo: See, the misnomer Councilmember...
Mr. Rapozo: That is yes or no.
Mr. Castillo: No, No, wait, wait, let me answer ur question,
Y q estion
,
please. The way that the...if you look at Teen Court, and you look at Hale`opio, and
you look at Teen Court coming off of Hale`opio, this is not a Prosecutor's Program.
This is Hale opio s program, they run Teen Court...
Mr. Rapozo: And...
Mr. Castillo: Wait, wait...
Mr. Rapozo: But I need to clarify...
Mr. Castillo: Let me answer please.
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me, Mr. Rapozo, let the County Attorney
summarize his point.
Mr. Rapozo: I am sorry and I apologize.
Mr. Castillo: The way that they have it set up is the Prosecutor's
Office for Teen Court as it was set up then was that these are case that they are not
going to prosecute and then they would establish a memorandum. The Prosecutor's
Office had nothing to do with the Teen Court after that. So that in and of itself is a
distinguishing factor. Now what is the difference between that and Keiki
P.O.H.A.K.U.? The problem, with Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U. and I can summarize it, just
like how the Assistant Chiefs here, the question to one of the Assistant Chiefs was
COUNCIL MEETING 26 OCTOBER 10, 2012
how do you see the Police Department involved in the Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U. Program?
The answer was, at this point in time was I cannot answer that until we have
means to coordinate that. That is exactly what I have been asking. We need
information to know how the Program is going to be run, how much involvement
will the Prosecutor's Office will have, during the analysis, will it interfere or conflict
with the provisions of the Charter? We have not had the opportunity to do that,
because we do not know enough.
Mr. Rapozo: That is good. Now the Police Department does not
have an express authority as well to do Diversionary Programs in our Charter?
Mr. Castillo: The Police Department in the Charter has...
Mr. Rapozo: I do not see it.
Mr. Castillo: It is not express. It is implied in the kinds of
business that the Police Department.
Mr. Rapozo: But it is not implied in the Prosecutor's Office?
Mr. Castillo: Yes.
Mr. Rapozo: It is your opinion?
Mr. Castillo: And I am the County Attorney.
Mr. Rapozo: I understand that.
Mr. Castillo: You may have a different opinion...
Mr. Rapozo: And I do. But I sat in the Charter Review
Commission Meeting a while back. I was there for another matter, in fact, for the
"shall" versus "may," believe it or not. But prior to that coming up there was
discussion on whether or not to put that in Charter.
Mr. Castillo: Yes.
Mr. Rapozo: The Charter Commission voted to support putting
that on the ballot. I was at that meeting. I was there with my own ears.
Mr. Castillo: I am sorry, I was not.
Mr. Rapozo: I know, but I am telling that the record will reflect
that at that meeting, they said that makes sense. They voted and I believe it was
unanimous and then when the thing came out, it is not on. This Charter ballot
question that was supposed to be on the ballot this year, that item was not on to add
in Diversionary Programs. I talked to two (2) Commissioners, Charter Review
Commissioners that told me, "we were advised that we did not have to put it on
because they already have the right to do that."
Mr. Castillo: I am sorry...
Mr. Rapozo: I want you to understand why I disagree with you.
COUNCIL MEETING 27 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Mr. Castillo: I am sorry I was not there.
Mr. Rapozo: And apparently and I do not know who the Deputy
was there. I am thinking who advised the Charter Review Commission now to take
it off the ballot, when they voted to support it? I will go get the minutes, but that
troubles me, because now we are hearing that they do not. If they do not, then it
should have been on the ballot. If in fact, the Charter Review Commission. Maybe
you do your research with your deputies to find out why that Commission was told
we did not need this item — I am asking you to go find out because it is not right, Al.
Mr. Castillo: Yes and I will go find out exactly.
Mr. Rapozo: I am beginning to see a pattern that I am
uncomfortable with. The other thing is, and I do not know if you folks were aware
of this, probably not because it did not make the paper, but I can tell you that I was
there when they called for the question.
Mr. Castillo: I am sorry, I have no information.
Mr. Rapozo: It just bothers me because today we are hearing
now they do not have express authority. The other thing...
Mr. Castillo: Wait, to that, and, you are seeing a pattern. And I
do not know what you are referring to, but as far as I am concerned, everything that
you have mentioned regarding the Charter Review Commission I have no
knowledge of.
Mr. Rapozo: Well, we can request the minutes of the Charter
Review.
Chair Furfaro: I just did.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you. I was there and I know what I heard,
and I counted the votes and it was unanimous and I thought at that time I did not
really understand what was happening with the express authority. So the Charter
Review Commission, I was there when the Prosecutor's Office requested that to be
put on the ballot and I was there when they voted and supported it. Maybe when
the Prosecutor's Office comes up they can clarify more on that. The other thing is
that the Gary Slovin opinion.
Mr. Castillo: Yes.
Mr. Rapozo: Says that they do have that authority.
Mr. Castillo: No, see...
Mr. Rapozo: No. Let me finish now and then you can answer
the question.
Mr. Castillo: Okay.
Mr. Rapozo: The Gary Slovin opinion says that by what he has
read and in his research that, in fact, the Prosecutor's Office does have the right
and the authority to do Diversionary Programs. In fact that was cited in his
COUNCIL MEETING 28 OCTOBER 10, 2012
opinion. I realize that maybe he was not acting in the capacity of a County
Attorney or a Deputy County Attorney or whatever it is, because for whatever
reason he was contracted. But I did see a memo that came from you, to Gary,
saying that, in fact you are acting as if you were the Deputy County Attorney. I am
just saying fine, if that message comes to me from the Attorney who was hired to
act in my shoes, now I have two conflicting opinions; one from the County Attorney
that says "no" and one from a Special Council that acted in the capacity of a County
Attorney that said "yes." Now we are told we have to wait another two (2) weeks. I
am not supporting a deferral.
Chair Furfaro: First of all, Mel, in all fairness the outline of
questions that I gave them from the testimony that they gave a week ago, the
deadline was put on from me. They do not...
Mr. Rapozo: Okay.
Chair Furfaro: I just want to make it clear that I asked them to be
prepared to give me responses by October 17th, that deadline came from me.
Mr. Rapozo: Al, the question is, can we vote to approve this
today? Contracts have not been written and we are just approving the funding. I
do not see a problem with it and I happen to agree that Diversionary Programs can
be administered but that is just my opinion.
Mr. Castillo: Okay.
Mr. Rapozo: I am not a lawyer, but is it okay to vote on this
today in your opinion?
Mr. Castillo: Let me go a little bit backwards. Is it okay to vote?
The answer to that is basically you can vote on whatever the Chair says is up on the
agenda. My recommendation to you as County Attorney is that the Keiki
P.O.H.A.K.U. Program with the information that we have is not authorized by the
Charter. Based on that, I will recommend that you do not vote in favor of this until
the Program receives legal clearance. Let me go back about Mr. Slovin. When
Mr. Slovin wrote what he wrote, it was-excuse me.
Chair Furfaro: Please in the audience, we pick up discussions on
the floor very easily and it conflicts with what is coming through the mics. Go
ahead.
Mr. Castillo: Mr. Slovin, it was his last three (3) days when he
left that law firm of Goodsill, and he went to another law firm. Basically the
agreement was that he was to replace Jennifer Winn, who was assigned to that
office and only in matters involving P.O.H.A.K.U. in the civil arena. He was to be
like a Deputy County Attorney. What I specifically wrote to him was a Deputy's
primary obligation in this instance, Slovin's obligation as Special Counsel is to the
public. Now his opinion, he framed his opinion and he attached it to a Diversionary
Program, which is established. But he did not do a legal analysis, cite case law or
did not reconcile the Charter. These were his impressions. What Slovin said there,
I mean, you can use it for what it is worth. But to this Council with the extensive
research that we have done and it's clear, it is not expressed in the Charter, that is
all have I to say. Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING 29 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Chair Furfaro: Any more questions for the County Attorney?
Mr. Chang: Thank you Chairman, thanks Al. Two (2) weeks
ago our Chairman asked us next week we are going to take a vote. Last week the
vote was 3-2, but four (4) votes were needed. If a fourth vote was cast, and it did
end up 4-2, would this discussion be happening today? What kind of
ramification...if it passed last week, what would have been the discussion like
today?
Mr. Castillo: Councilmember Chang, I do not want to speculate.
What I have before me is lease let me know what the legality of the Keiki
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P.O.H.A.K.U. Program is. What is the status right now and I gave you the status. I
do not want to go back and speculate what would have, could have, should have
happened back then. I am sorry.
Mr. Chang: I understand.
Chair Furfaro: This amount of$35,000.00, what kind of risk do we
have? That was the question that I posed. I look forward to the answers to my
October 17th questions that affects the whole County in interpretation. But I do ask
you to go back and review the history, which it sounds like you have.
Mr. Kuali`i: You say you do not want to speculate, but I think
your recommendation to say that it is not authorized by the Charter and until it
receives legal clearance may be based on speculation, because Councilmember
Nakamura's question about if the contract came across your desk, the contract to
move forward with the Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U. Program. Would you approve and sign
off as to its form and legality? At that point you did not automatically say no,
because it is illegal, because of this, this and that. You said you did not want to
speculate and that you would have to see the contract. So, in fact, we can approve
this matter. The Prosecutor can go work out that contract and it could meet your
requirements of what needs to be in the contract and you could sign off on it. So to
say it is illegal, which you never actually said when Councilmember Yukimura
asked you about whether it was illegal, you did not say "yes" or "no." You said that
you just do not find any authority at this time. If the question was raised regarding
authority, well then we would have to analyze for legality. I do not feel like we are
getting clear answers and you keep using the word speculation. Which is it? Would
it be illegal to approve funding or would it be illegal...I mean the contract that you
speak of, that has not come to your desk for signature or approval, you do not know
what form that will be. So what is the harm in us approving a grant to apply for,
receive, and expend and believe me, we cannot expend it until we apply for it and
receive it. There is steps there and time and delays. It has been delayed now
forever and this seems like another delay. Why can we not vote today?
Mr. Castillo: That is a long question, by the way, but I will try to
answer it. In terms of speculation and you mentioned that word.
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me. It is 11:00 and need to take a caption
break. We are a little bit over the time for a caption break because we started at
8:45. So hold that thought and you will answer that when we come back.
There being no objections, the Council recessed at 11:00 a.m.
There Council reconvened at 11:12 a.m., and proceeded as follows:
COUNCIL MEETING 30 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Chair Furfaro: We are back in order from the recess and we had a
question posed to the County Attorney before we take a break. Al, you have the
floor.
Mr. Castillo: Council Chair, and Councilmembers, Al Castillo,
County Attorney. Councilmember Kauli`i, the status right now of the facts that have
been presented, basically, what I said earlier, you even have the Police Department
that are not clear on the Program. I have been given information which I deem
insufficient. What I am saying about speculation, I cannot speculate on how the
Program will eventually be run. Based on that, I am giving you legal advice saying
that right now for Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U., the information that I have is insufficient for
me to say that there is any authority. I can only give you legal advice, and you can
vote upon that legal advice that I give you.
Mr. Kauli`i: If the information is insufficient to say that it is
legal, would it not also be insufficient for you to say that it is clearly illegal and we
should not move forward? That is why I think your points about Councilmember
Nakamura's question to approve and sign of as to form and legality you said that
would be speculating and when the contract comes before you, then you could.
What information is missing that leads you to not be able to say it is legal, but to be
able to say it is illegal.
Mr. Castillo: Let me be clear then, with the information that I
have, it is clearly not legal. The information, I cannot speculate often on what
information is going to come forth, because I am not the proponent of the program.
Mr. Kauli`i: Can you say what makes it illegal? What
information? You said with the information that I have, it's clearly illegal. But
then earlier you said there was insufficient information for you to make decisions
about signing off or not approving? I mean, we are talking about...
Mr. Castillo: I need to know how much.
Mr. Kauli`i: We are talking about approving the application,
receipt and expenditure $35,000.00, a grant for a pilot new Program.
Mr. Castillo: I hear you. I know what you are doing. We need
more information about the entire Program, which I do not have. You are trying to
have me create a Program, which is not my Program.
Chair Furfaro: I would be careful implying what Councilmembers
are trying to do.
Mr. Castillo: I am sorry. I am a little confused by the question.
I cannot create the Program. I can only opine on the Program that is being created.
Chair Furfaro: The answer right now is that you do not have
enough information to make that opinion?
Mr. Castillo: To say that it is legal, yes.
Chair Furfaro: That is what I am hearing.
COUNCIL MEETING 31 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Mr. Castillo: Yes.
Mr. Kauli`i: I do not see any point in going further. Thank you,
Mr. Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Are there any other questions for the County
attorney? If not, Al, thank you.
Mr. Castillo: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Members, would you want someone else up from
the Administration?
Ms. Yukimura: Mr. Chair, I would like to have the Mayor's
Managing Director, please.
Chair Furfaro: Is Mr. Heu here? Good morning Gary.
GARY HEU, Managing Director: Gary Heu, Managing Director.
Ms. Yukimura: Gary, the Mayor a head of local Government under
Federal grants being applied for here is given a lot of authority and attention in
terms of the Mayor's Office in terms for coordination and being the spokesperson for
local government on the issue of Federal Juvenile Justice grants. Have things been
coordinated at the Mayor's level to ensure what is required under the plan or excuse
me, under the Federal grant guidelines and law to have a coordinated system of
juvenile justice?
Mr. Heu: Before I get into attempting to respond to that, first
I would like to say that we have not seen the grant application or specific
documentation for the Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U. Program. At this point in time I am not
aware as to the specific source of funding that they are seeking. I am assuming
from some of the discussion that I have heard, informally, it would be the JAV block
grants, the Juvenile Accountability Block Grants, that are administered out of the
Office of Youth Services. But I am assuming that since like I said, I have not seen
any of the documentation. If you are speaking specifically to those grants, if we go
down that road and say we are assuming that those are the grants that the request
is to apply, receive and expend, yes, that the Mayor does have a role in that relative
to those funds are routed from OIS to the Mayor's Office and ultimately to the
Prosecutor's Office or wherever the grant request is coming from.
Ms. Yukimura: One of the concerns is how all of these different
diversionary tracts, because I think there is total agreement, if I may, that
Diversionary Programs are critical and important.
Mr. Heu: Absolutely.
Ms. Yukimura: But there are several diversion tracts right? Teen
Court, Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U., if it is approved, Drug Court and a few others. How are
the decisions being made about which is the proper track or alternative for the
child? Who is making those decisions?
Mr. Heu: I cannot speak to Drug Court and I am not even
sure if Drug Court receives JAV money.
COUNCIL MEETING 32 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Ms. Yukimura: Is there someone in your Administration who
knows about this? It is the responsibility of the Mayor's, a head of local government
to, I would think ensure that coordinated process.
Mr. Heu: I think what we are dealing with is if you look at
historically at JAV funding, it has been used to provide funding for Teen Court and
I know we are not here to talk about Teen Court. But if you want to talk...
Ms. Yukimura: As it is related, I believe it is fine. As it is related
to Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U.
Mr. Heu: If we are talking about JAV funding and how those
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funds have historically been used, it i
y is been for Teen Court. Teen Court is a well-
established Program. I think that it has a proven track record of success. As far as
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the JAV funding on a reoccurring basis, there is really no need, I don't think, for
much oversight out the Mayor's Office in terms of sustained funding.
Ms. Yukimura: That is not my question.
Mr. Heu: If we are talking about something different, which
we may be relative to Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U. that is another story. We are not familiar
with the Program and we have never received any kind of documentation about the
Program in the Mayor's Office.
Ms. Yukimura: But you did not quite answer the question in terms
of who is making sure that there is a coordinated system of diversion that meets the
best interest of the child?
Mr. Heu: Well I think, again, if it is brought to our attention
that, in fact, this Diversionary Program would be accessing the JAV funding, then
obviously once the application was made with OIS and based on their approval and
flowing those funds through the Mayor's Office, I guess that is where we would have
the opportunity to weigh in on whether or not this is consistent and it is a program
that is well-established and managed and within the confines of the Charter or the
Code. But not having that information, Vice Chair, makes it difficult for us to
weigh in.
Ms. Yukimura: But is it not your responsibility to get that
information? Why would we do it at the end? It is the County Attorney's Office or
the Mayor's Office make everybody go through this whole process of application and
everything and then say that something is wrong? I believe actually that the
Federal law requires that there be an upfront coordination and an upfront plan and
that any proposed grant has to show it is part of implementing the plan.
Mr. Heu: Yes. I believe the Federal guidelines provides that
a Committee needs to be established.
Ms. Yukimura: Well, there is a Committee established.
Mr. Heu: Okay.
COUNCIL MEETING 33 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Ms. Yukimura: But where is the plan that Committee uses to judge
which grant should go forward, which should not or how they should be changed,
and which Agency would do which part of the plan?
Mr. Heu: That might be a question better posed to an official
out of Office of Youth Services. However, to your previous question, I would say yes,
the Mayor's Office has a certain level of responsibility. But I think that Agencies
that are initiating programs and are going to seek funding have a responsibility to
communicate with the Mayor's Office, so that we know that this is out there. Like I
said today, sitting here, I do not know. Maybe you folks can tell me if, in fact, the
funding that has been sought is truly the JAV funds because that has not been
communicated to us.
Ms. Yukimura: It is I think. I believe Councilmember Nakamura
can confirm that she asked the Office of Youth Services whether there was a plan.
Chair Furfaro: Let me recognize her. I want to make sure from
the Administration, your response to that question is perhaps we can answer it?
Mr. Heu: Yes, well we have seen nothing.
Chair Furfaro: You have received nothing?
Mr. Heu: We have received nothing relative to Keiki
P.O.H.A.K.U. and any requests being made of the JAV funding, for JAV funding
through OIS.
Ms. Yukimura: Just one...
Chair Furfaro: Before I recognize her, you have turned over your
seat with that last question. We get about 10 000.00 for certain funding programs
q g $10,000.00 gp g
that we earmarked for Teen Court.
Mr. Heu: Are you talking about general funds?
Chair Furfaro: General funds, right?
Mr. Heu: Right.
Chair Furfaro: We have another $19,000.00 that comes into the
County from the judicial piece.
Mr. Heu: If we are talking about Teen Court, I believe
that...and the Prosecutor's Office is probably in a better position to answer this
question, but I believe that they have $14,000.00 or $15,000.00 that had been
approved and allocated from Office of Youth Services for current year, for use for
Teen Court.
Chair Furfaro: Maybe you are right and I am wrong. That is fine
just in general. But we used to get the amounts closer to $60,000.00.
Mr. Heu: Now we are reaching back into history and I am not
sure if I am the right person to speak to that, but my understanding is that there
was a time where Teen Court was fully funded out the State Judiciary.
COUNCIL MEETING 34 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Chair Furfaro: Councilwoman, you heard the comment from the
Administration that perhaps we can answer that question, you have the floor.
Ms. Nakamura: I did send the Office of Youth Services, David
Hipp, a letter just a question asking who is responsible for the plan that is required
by the State grant? He said that it is not the State, they leave it up to the Counties.
That was the question that you wanted to know? I believe, the role of the coalition
to come up with the plan that then becomes the framework for the use of those
funds. My read of the minutes of the coalition's work is that...I do not know
whether that was done.
Chair Furfaro: To disclose, I have a similar piece of correspondence
and basically the response that they favor both Programs. But it really seemed to
boil down to that they do not have funds to contribute more or less, especially since
the 2008 reduction in funds.
Ms. Nakamura: The question is that we are at this stage where we
have gone three (3) meetings on this agenda. Gary, I know that there is a lot of
frustration because of the time that it take diverted from a lot of and resources for
this discussion when back in April there was an unsolicited opinion from the County
Attorney's to the Prosecutor's Office, saying that these Diversionary Programs were
not in accordance with the County Charter. But a notice for professional services
contract was issued by the Administration. The item was placed on this Council's
agenda and for three (3) meetings and only today are we getting that feedback from
the County Attorneys and I am just wondering why could this not have been at
least flagged early on, rather than have this body go through this 10.5 hours, now
much longer, discussion.
Chair Furfaro: It is twelve and a half hours.
Ms. Nakamura: Twelve and a half hours, thank Y ou.
Mr. Heu: I think it is a reasonable question. I think we all
deal with probably on a daily basis are the proper questions being...I mean, we get
answers to questions all the time, but are we asking the right questions?
Ms. Nakamura: Especially in light of what the issues raised with
the adult P.O.H.A.K.U. this was not new to the Administration. We did not know
about that opinion until the Prosecuting Attorney brought that up and yet here we
are months into this deal. Why was the process moved ahead knowing that there
were issues? Who should have been looking at that big picture?
Mr. Heu: I mean, again, that is a fair question. But I do not
have an answer to that relative to the procurement aspect of this.
Mr. Rapozo: Gary, thank you for being here. The Mayor's
Anti-Crime Task Force met on this, correct?
Mr. Heu: I know I have heard discussion on the floor that the
Mayor's Anti-Crime Task Force supported Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U. I have gone back
and talked to George Costa, who facilitates those meetings and he said that the
discussion that they have over the past...I do not know if it is been a year or so, has
been in regards to the P.O.H.A.K.U. Program and there was discussion among
COUNCIL MEETING 35 OCTOBER 10, 2012
members and there seemed to be support for the P.O.H.A.K.U. Program. I asked
him specifically about any kind of support that have been shown by the Task Force
for the Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U. Program and he said that had not been discussed. With
that being said, this is second hand...
Mr. Rapozo: Gary, maybe you should go talk to some other
members like Teresa Koki, and others that participate as well. I have not spoken to
George, but I have spoken to others that were at that meeting that did discuss this
Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U. Program and who did verify and validate to me it was
unanimously supported. I do not know if George...
Mr. Heu: Again, I heard discussion on the floor and there
seemed to be discussion about coming from the Mayor's Anti-Crime Task Force, and
then there was the other Committee...
Mr. Rapozo: The other Committee that is required by the
State...
Mr. Heu: Right and it seemed like some of the discussion was
getting confused.
Mr. Rapozo: Rather than getting secondhand information, I
spoke to specific members of the Committee, who validated what was stated. I am
comfortable that, in fact, both Committees heard it and approved it. The other
thing and this is what is baffling me to no end is today we have 1.9 million dollars
in grants up on this agenda. Federal grants, all kinds of grants, for different
Departments. Is the Mayor and is the Administration aware of the $970,000.00 for
Wastewater and who is going to be turning the screws and who is going to be
driving the truck and all of that?
Mr. Heu: Are you talking about the EPA grant?
Mr. Rapozo: Correct. Are you intimate with what will happen
with that grant?
Mr. Heu: I know in general terms.
Mr. Rapozo: I understand that and $100,000.00 force for Public
Works who will be doing recycling, do we know who is going to be the ultimate
provider for that service?
Mr. Heu: You mean the electronic recycling?
Mr. Rapozo: Yes.
Mr. Heu: I know the functions and I understand the intent of
the grant is.
Mr. Rapozo: I understand and do you see that I am trying to do
the comparisons here. The Administration is coming to us for this money to do this
E-Recycling Program and I hope and pray to the Lord above that we are not going to
get the same questions about who is going to provide the service. Who is going to
determine what is going to be picked up, what kind of trucks will they use? But
that is not what is going to happen because it doesn't involve Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U.
COUNCIL MEETING 36 OCTOBER 10, 2012
JoAnn asked about the job of the Mayor's Administration that should know all
about this. Do you know about $359,925.00 grant for Civil Defense and exactly
what they will do with the money. We are told it is to prevent, deter and respond
and recover. But do you folks have intimate knowledge of where it is going to go and
who is going to be doing it? Can you sit here today and tell me that you do?
Mr. Heu: Today, I could not tell you where every cent is.
Mr. Rapozo: I am trying to get a consistent review of all grants
and this one, I think we have identified the theory. I think we have identified the
concept. I think we have identified the fact that it is going to be put out to bid, that
some outside agency is going to be running the Program. I mean I think that has
been stated probably a dozen times through the last twelve (12) hours or so. We
keep asking the same questions hoping to get a different answer and we are wasting
our time. I wanted to verify and make sure that we are not treating this one
differently. Today we have almost two million in grants and I will be waiting for
the questions because some of them are very huge. Thank you.
Mr. Heu: Councilmember, before I step away from the
microphone, I just want to go back to the issue of the Mayor's Anti-Crime Task
Force, and their endorsement of Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U. I would encourage you folks if
there is a question to get George Costa over here to give you that firsthand
information. He conducts those meetings, he facilitates, and it is his Office that
does the minutes for those meetings and has them distributed. Clearly, I asked him
the straight-up question about their endorsement of Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U. and he said
they did not.
Mr. Rapozo: Gary, for me I am not going to be calling him. I
spoke to three (3) others and I do not believe those three others would lie to me, I
have to believe my first hand research as provided. I will not ask for George, but I
am sure somebody else will though.
Ms. Yukimura: Gary, you may not know the questions about the
sewer grant that is on the agenda right now, but your department head Ed Tschupp
does know the answers, does he not?
Mr. Heu: Larry Dill does, Ed Tschupp, absolutely will.
Ms. Yukimura: When they have come before us and we have asked
them questions they have answered us fully. That is why we may not ask on
subsequent grants. The other thing is that in the coalition, you say your Office has
not received information, but it is my understanding that the head of Life's Choices
Office has been part of the coalition.
Mr. Heu: Theresa Koki, I believe, sits on that Committee.
Ms. Yukimura: In some respect your Office has received some
information and I guess I am asking because it is a JAV grant and the requirement
is for a plan and recognizes the Mayor's Office as the head of the local government.
It seems to me to be the responsibility of the Mayor to facilitate the coordination in
terms of the grants and the monies that need to be dispersed.
Mr. Heu: Again, Vice Chair, I am going to go back to what I
original said which was that the JAV funding has historically year over year has
COUNCIL MEETING 37 OCTOBER 10, 2012
been used to support Teen Court. There is between $14,000.00 and $15,000.00
sitting currently with O.P.A. for the use for Teen Court. This is the first that we
have heard of a Program other than Teen Court requesting funding through JAV.
Ms. Yukimura: When you say there is $14,000.00 sitting in the
Office of the Prosecuting Attorney, it is my understanding that the contract with
between the Teen Court and County expired September 30, 2012.
Mr. Heu: That is my understanding also. However, I believe
that in order receive that funding, the Office of the Prosecuting Attorney entered
into a contract with O.I.S. which basically provides the $14,000.00 to O.P.A. for use
by Teen Court.
Ms. Yukimura: Alright.
Mr. Heu: That is a separate contract.
Ms. Yukimura: Alright.
Mr. Heu: I believe that contract runs through the end of the
this calendar year.
Ms. Yukimura: And the contract exists?
Mr. Heu: My understanding and again, that is a question
better posed to O.P.A., but my understanding is that there is currently a contract
between the Office of the Prosecuting Attorney and the Office of Youth Services.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Members, I do want to share with you that I would
like to get to a point where either you are supporting this or you are not supporting
this and we move on. Gary, I do want to say that looking even as far back as the
June Charter Review Commission and I have the notes here. We have members of
the Charter Review Commission headed by Pat's staff, we had Deputy County
Attorney's there, and all the Board and Commission Officers, except for Jan
Tanrubicate, who was absent that day and support clerks from Barbara Davis to
Paula Morikami and this was going back since June. Especially when it comes to
the JAV grants, the fact of the matter is that that authority is with the
Administration. I feel and I am just saying as someone who tries to work very
closely with the Administration, I am just kind of feeling that this thing has been
pushed onto us and some of the controls were really at the Administration level. I
am feeling like it's been pushed to the Council and there were things that you
should or shouldn't have known within the Administration of the track this was
taking. Obviously, some of the involvement by the county Attorney's Office, because
we have attorneys present at the minutes that are supporting the Charter Review
Commission. I sent my questions over to Al, with other discussions. I have
indicated for $35,000.00 there isn't the kind of risk that we are talking about here to
launch the program. Last week I voted yes to support pursuing that grant and as I
mentioned earlier about leadership, this is about a vision trying to help some of our
young people and divert them away from the courts. That is what it is all about and
the fact that committee was established, which is required by the Feds, they are by
Committee. I do not know many animals that are formed with Committee that
everyone on the Committee agrees, you know? It is like a camel, some of them have
COUNCIL MEETING 38 OCTOBER 10, 2012
one hump, some of them have two humps. But they are still camels. This business
to me is really focused on launching a Program that we can measure going forward
for the application of a $35,000.00 grant. But I am quite sure that things that I
have participated in whether it is young leadership roles through being the
founding Director of Leadership Kaua`i, there are some hard times in the beginning,
but I certainly feel that this has kind of dragged out long enough and for the
amount of risk I do not see why I could not move it forward and then also have
discussion with the County Attorney about some bigger issues that we have
including the way we divert grant monies and so forth through many of the
Departments in the County. To me it is just opened up a lot more questions. I do
want to share that we d not have the kind of oversight and, in fact by Charter, this
Council is restricted in getting involved with your Administration on directing
things to happen. I mean that is a clear restriction in the Charter. I want to thank
you for your commentary and so forth and I would encourage, as the bigger question
is grant applications and Diversion Programs that I sent over to the County
Attorney. I would really appreciate if you guys could participate in that discussion.
I think that there is a lot at risk there.
Mr. Heu: Depending on how the County Attorney opines on
that, I think we have an interest and concerns also. What I would say is relative to
today's agenda item, I mean, I appreciate you folks letting me participate in the
discussion, but it is very difficult because there is a lot of"new information" that is
kind of floating out there. I heard the County Attorney provide an opinion to you
earlier, but in addition to that I cannot sit here right now and tell you how your vote
on Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U. impacts Teen Court or if it does. I do not know that. We
cannot make that kind of assessment without having additional information and
again, I appreciate your confirming that Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U. is attempting to access
JAV funding, which is the same source of funding for Teen Court.
Chair Furfaro: But in our minds I want to make sure that we are
clear to me, the State reduced funding for Teen Court by almost $60,000.00.
Hale`Opio has been the agent that has done our Teen Court for us. To me, at the
bottom line, if we are serious about our sense of place and `ohana, on the hearings
on the 17th if we have to step up with a money bill for Teen Court, for Hale`Opio, I
am willing to do it because the value is about our people and our community. The
challenges that we have out there right now as we have heard from Mr. Brun. Next
week I am quite familiar with saying here is some of the money that we have to
replace for Teen Court. We stepped to the plate with the koki frog because we could
not get any money for the State. We have stepped up to the plate on funding a
number of items including the bill that Mr. Rapozo and I put out regarding the
bouquet odors on the West side from the milk weed, State did not fund that, we put
money in there because it is the right thing to do. That is all I want to say. I
appreciate you guys coming over, but I would like to let you know that I do not
agree that these decisions should have been in the Administration and not pushed
to us. I am a friend of the Administration and I work closely with you, but I think it
needed to be said. That is where I am going with my vote. Thank you Mr. Heu,
thank you very much.
Mr. Heu: Thank you.
There being no objection, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded
as follows:
COUNCIL MEETING 39 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Chair Furfaro: It is ten to noon and we have a full agenda yet
before us. We have an opportunity to give our sincere mahalos to Senator Akaka
today since he is coming to Kaua`i this evening. I am now open for some discussion.
Mr. Rapozo moved to approve C 2012-336, seconded by Mr. Kuali`i.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Chang, I will recognize you first?
Mr. Chang: I believe we have deliberated this item for many,
many hours and one of my questions was last week the vote 3:2 in favor and had we
had another Councilmember, the possibility of it going 4:2 would have passed this
issue last week. Today there was new information, however, this information would
not have been valid if this was passed last week if we had the four (4) votes. The
P.O.H.A.K.U. Program stands for Productive Optimism Helps All Kauai Unite and
Kaua`i needs to unite as kupuna, as our adults, and the keiki that is that what you
call uniting everybody together as a people. There was one thing I was not aware of
that I think is very important that was not brought up today. The fact that for the
children if for any reason that they get one bum rap and there is no additional
Diversion Program that they can fit into, we have all identified that you might not
be able to fit in one, but there may be another. To me have to have a record that
would reflect not being able to join or at least apply for the military is to me a
disservice for this entire country. When you get into the military, I think you grew
up really quickly. We talked about a drill sergeant yelling at you, believe me, if you
need to get disciplined and, by the way, I have no military service, but I just know
that you would respect the drill sergeant and not only do you get stronger, but you
grow up and get discipline and become a proud American. At that particular point
you know what America is like and what it is like to be an American and serve our
country. I have all respect for all military that have served our Country. I think
everybody knows that. Officer Ponce talked about the very successful P.O.I.
Program and for the viewing audience, having to have a violator have to write an
apology letter, can you imagine what it would feel like if you are the one who were
the victim to get an apology letter? To me that is huge, it is not an email this is not
someone saying I apologize. Instead it is a letter from somebody that I believe will
feel that it is sincere. They want that chance. Coupled with community essays and
community service or even watching an adult criminal proceeding, as child you
made a mistake, but if you want to get heavy duty and talk about scared straight, I
think it will be to be able to witness an adult -- a really heavy-duty adult. I think
would really scare people and just to have that service of cleaning yards for the
elderly. That is like the good old days when you made a nickel to lawn your
neighbor's yard. I think that kind of program is great. The one that hit me the
most and I want to thank Officer Ponce, is the Productive Optimism Helps All
Kauai Unite. The P.O.H.A.K.U. Program instills the Hawaiian values and the real
roots of what we're doing and trying to accomplish. Many of us have been in the lo`i
patches. If you haven't then I would recommend that everyone get in the lo`i
patches. The minute you get into the patch you know you are stepping into
something foreign because it does not feel right. But when you work in the patches,
any farmer can tell you, within the sun, the rain, the snails, the birds, the invasive
species, flooding, drought, I think you grew up quickly because when you know
about the root, you have that family value that everyone will tell you about. You
get all the little shoots, the keiki coming out and that is very important for
education as far as what we talked about the Hawaiian values and Kauaiian values
that we want to instill to our youth. We talked about how difficult it is to be a kid
and I said it many times. I wish I was a parent, I am not but I know it is extremely
difficult to be a child. I would not know how to be a kid these day but I believe it's
COUNCIL MEETING 40 OCTOBER 10, 2012
equally difficult for the parents, the grandparents and extended family in this day
and age. I feel this program is equally important to our youth as it is for the
residents and parents of Kaua`i. I want to say lastly the Office of the Prosecuting
Attorney, with all of this scrutiny and everything under a microscope, now it is their
kuleana and I believe that they are ready and confident and I believe that they are
able to move this forward...I think we all need to help them get started, because in
the long run we are all going to benefit from this Program. Thank you very much.
Mr. Rapozo: Obviously I will be supporting this and I wish that
we would have supported this a while back. We have lost funds because of all of the
delays, it was a $65,000.00 grant and it has dwindled down, which I apologize for
because it was this body. I know there was a lot of talk about the Mayor's Office
and the County Attorney's Office but it is here and we make the decision and I
believe in it case we took way too long for reasons that I think were fabricated. This
body and I speak as the body of how my perception is, we were looking for reasons
to say "no". We were digging up reasons to say "no, we cannot support that." That
is what it is and it did not stop. When one question got answered another one came
flying. When that response was not wanted another one came. We brought up
County Attorneys and Administrative Assistants today. We never brought up the
Prosecutor's Office and that is pretty interesting, do you not think? They are
requesting it but you think anybody had a question for them...Of course not, becase
we were not looking for the answers that they had. We were looking for the
answers to down this Program, that is a shame. A lot has been talked and I do not
read the blogs a lot, but I did because someone said Mel your name is it, and I saw
the trash being printed about promotional materials. All of this wasted money and
I just had our staff today just go run around our Office and see what the Office of
Elderly Affairs does, what County Housing does, what the Police Department does,
what the Fire Department does, and what the Holo Holo 2020 does. The Mayor's
Program, loads up the Department Heads in a County bus paid by your money,
drives all over the island to have promotional meetings for Holo Holo 2020 and
nobody complains about that, but if it is coming from O.P.A., it is wrong; your
shirts, your bags, all of that stuff. Part of a pilot project is marketing. Getting the
kids, their families, the probation officers and the judicial systems to understand
that there is another option. You are not going to do that without promotional
materials. It is like evil sin and yet everywhere you go in the County, a paperclip
holders and magnets and we have shirts but nobody questions that and that is all
budgeted. Today we have, as I talked to Gary Heu about...we have $970,000.00 for
Wastewater and up to $100,000.00 for recycling for collections, education, outreach
and reporting activities. I wonder if we are going scrutinize that and try to get the
answers that we tried to get out of O.P.A. for that since it is unknown. I do not
know they are going to hire and I do not know if they have the express authority in
the Charter to do recycling. I do not know. I read the Charter and it says we take
your trash and could recycling be part of trash? Yes. It says the Prosecutor is
tasked with prosecution, is Diversion Programs part of prosecution? I believe so.
You have a case and decide how you are going to prosecute. Is that my five
minutes? Somebody else is trying to cut me off. It is part of prosecution. It is the
total package, if in fact you can do...If we are going to dissect the Charter on every
single grant we have and use that rationale and to say that Teen Court because it
happened a long time ago is different from today, no that simply does not fly with
me. Remember in this case we have dueling Attorneys opinions and what the
public may not know and that is where I was going to call up the Prosecutor's
Office, but Mr. Chair, I respect the time that we have been battling this so long.
Gary Slovin, was hired and I do not care what anybody says or what the blogs say
and I am sure that the Prosecutor's Office is here and will release the document, if
COUNCIL MEETING 41 OCTOBER 10, 2012
you ask. He was hired to act in the capacity of the Deputy County attorney for
County of Kaua`i, to represent them. His opinion in my opinion is on equal plane as
Mr. Castillo's opinion. I just happen to agree with Slovin's. That is the reason for
my vote today, because I believe that is the more practical application of this whole
process. You have to have diversion, where is it going to come from? Do you get a
committee in the public to say who is going to Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U.? You are going to
expose your files of this poor kids criminal background? You cannot do that. The
only office that can do that I the Prosecutor's Office. The Police Department does
not have the authority to do that, there is only one entity that prosecutes and deals
with plea bargains and diversion. To think that it belongs somewhere else is
ridiculous in my opinion. I am not a lawyer...but I have been in this law
enforcement industry all my adult life, starting when I was nineteen (19) years old,
about ten (10) years a
( ) Y ago.
g
Chair Furfaro: Councilmember Rapozo, your five (5) minutes are
up. I owe you at least twelve (12) seconds and I will let you summarize.
Mr. Rapozo: I beg my colleagues to support this today. We need
unanimous vote on this to send a message to the community, like we did with
PLDC, we heard from the community, we appreciate your input and let us get some
kids fixed. Thank you.
Mr. Kuali`i: I do not think I need five (5) minutes. I just wanted
to say mahalo to everyone who has participated in this rather drawn out process.
But your testimony and support, I think, has finally perhaps got us to the place
where we can hopefully support this unanimously. I apologize for not being here
last week, I would have supported it then and it would have been over and we
would not have to be here today, but I was at the annual Native Hawaiian
Convention, which I am committed to participate in each year. I really appreciate
the testimony of our Arthur Brun, you touched my heart and got me choked up, so I
was not able to thank you. But I wanted to say mahalo. Dr. Ka-ni Blackwell, when
you talk about social justice, to me there are a lot of young people who do not have
the resources to get high-powered attorneys who need that support and that second
chance. Our families, our neighbors, you know? So it's just sad that we cannot even
get this going with a $35,000.00 grant, but I am hopeful that we will do that today.
I really appreciate the approach and the wisdom to utilize the power of our
Hawaiian culture and the power of our Hawaiian values. Aloha, kuleana, malama
`aina, love for each other, being responsible for oneself, for each other and for the
community, malama lima: taking care of our land. There is so much power in
people and in the aloha that they can share and in teaching. Dr. Ka-ni talked about
education as the key and education happens from one person to another. How
about from kupuna, the love and aloha that they have... The mana and the power of
the power of people and also of places. We live in such a special place in Hawaii
and like other Councilmembers have said, when you get the chance to get into the
lo'i and work and feel. I know firsthand since I come from a family of taro farmers
and salt makers there is just a power in this place that is healing and helpful. I just
see all the potential, this is just the start of something. We can go to a place that is
really powerful, really healing and really helpful and I am really excited about
getting this started. I am more than prepared to support this today and I hope we
will all be able to do that. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you to all who have come here today and
before. I first want to clear one thing about the Kaua`i Marathon, which majority of
the Council passes, and when I voted for it, it was about the children of the families
COUNCIL MEETING 42 OCTOBER 10, 2012
of the visitor industry workers so that they could have full workweeks. We can do
this in subsequent years, because we want to put Kaua`i on the map. Now you can
disagree with whether that happens or not, but I want you to know that is part of
my motivation. As to the Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U. Program as Dr. B. said all of us are in
favor of supporting our youth and Diversion Programs are very important. Arthur
Bruin's story is a graphic example of why diversion programs are needed. I grew up
with these stories because my father was a probation officer in the family court
before he retired and my mother worked with the Mental Health Children's team so
I have been involved with people like this all my life. It is true we need different
sizes, like Tina said, different kinds of programs for different kids with different
needs. That is why there is a concern that Teen Court also will be able to operate
because it's an evidence-based program that has helped many young people. Our
concern is how to have this great diversity of Diversion Programs and how to make
it work all together? I have to say that the track record and past performance of the
Office of the Prosecuting Attorney's has been poor and raised questions about the
capacity of O.P.A. to design and implement good programs. Dr. B. said it was
unfortunate that P.O.H.A.K.U. was terminated. It was terminated because it was
stopped in its tracks and is under investigation and community service in
P.O.H.A.K.U. sounds like a good idea, but it was canceled for many of the offenders
who were in the Program. P.O.H.A.K.U. did not have a chance because the
administration of it was not done properly and that and that is what my questions
have been directed to, the design and implementation of the programs. It is about
accountability and I know it is been said there is little risk with $35,000.00. I
believe P.O.H.A.K.U. funding was about $40,000.00. Well, we have had to
authorize another $35,000.00 to defend the County against problems stemming
from the P.O.H.A.K.U. Project. We have had to pay out over $200,000.00 for the
mismanagement of personnel in the Office of the Prosecuting Attorney. Amount is
small...
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me, let me caution you on your choices of
describing that.
Ms. Yukimura: Everything I have said is public information, I have
checked it out Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Quiet in the gallery. I understand it is public
information but I am trying to connect it to Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U.
Ms. Yukimura: I feel like I have tied it.
Chair Furfaro: Please take my guidance on that, you have the
floor.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you. The amount may be small and it may
be minor, but the kids are not. The young people are not and how they will be
diverted, how they will be supervised, how the County will be protected against
liability? This is very important and this is where my questions have been directed.
They have been very similar to the questions that I have asked about road repair,
solid waste, and all of those issues that is what this is all about. Many in the public
have my concerns. But they are afraid to speak up, because if they speak up, then
they are attacked personally, just as I have been today. It's a difficult thing to
speak up but I feel that my oath in office requires that I do that. I do not think that
the Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U. Program as proposed has been sufficiently described and I
do not feel that the past track record of O.P.A. supports approval of this program.
COUNCIL MEETING 43 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Ms. Nakamura: When all of this started, there were lawsuits, there
were claims and there was a pattern from this agency and so I felt it was my
fiduciary responsibility to scrutinize this request before the Council and I thought
that is would be irresponsible to do otherwise, that is why I have been asking a lot
p � Y g
of questions. It has also been troubling that in reviewing all of the past minutes
which we were able to get a hold of from the Kaua`i Juvenile Crime Prevention
Coalition, that we learned that the coalition is supposed to meet regularly, but had
not met between November 15, 2011 and September 12, 2012, a period of ten
months. The coalition has not developed this coordinated plan that lays out a
roadmap of how we are going to use these federal funds that we are allotted. The
State Office of Youth Services confirmed that yes, that is the role of the county
through this coalition. It was only after this item was on and presented to the
Council that the coalition met to discuss Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U. It was about a month
after it was originally placed on this agenda that the meeting finally took place and
that they did agree to move forward on this issue. When we started asking some
questions about were procedures followed, did this collaboration take place? It did
raise issues for me in this process, and I want to thank the Office of the Prosecuting
Attorney because they briefed me yesterday on the details of this program that I did
not get out of this forum. I am sorry, it just did not happen. I want to thank you for
describing the program design and intention and I wish the public had this
opportunity to hear about it. Unfortunately, we could not ask questions during our
budget process. I did not believe that this forum really helped me to understand it.
My feeling is that this is a start, but there is a need to bring the stakeholders
together, to really look at a long-term solution and system for looking at juveniles
and just the whole area of preventing this in the first place. The problem that I
have is today getting the opinion from the County Attorney that says that the
Charter does not grant the Prosecuting Attorney the express authority to establish
fund and/or coordinate a Diversionary Program. I am elected to uphold the Charter.
I took a close look at the 2007 Supreme Court opinion that basically said that Peter
Carlisle in Honolulu, the Prosecutor's Office could not do things outside of the
express language of the Charter. So what Peter Carlisle did was he went and
changed the Charter because it was a State Supreme Court unanimous opinion. I
believe that is what this County opinion that we received this morning that I will
hope that this Council will release to the public at some point and I will ask that we
put that on the agenda. It basically relies on this opinion and says that the
Supreme Court narrowly defines the role of Prosecuting Attorney based on what is
in the Charter. That is my conflict today and I think I have gotten resolved on the
program issues and that this is a start, but I am hung up because of this issue. I
i will not be able to support this request.
Chair Furfaro: Well, I guess it is my turn to speak and I do want to
say that I have been on the County Council long enough to know that I want to see
the County Attorney's opinion in writing and that is coming forward October 17th.
I can live with whatever Attorney's opinion there is and would like to find myself on
p Y
being able to focus on the particular impacts that that opinion will have on the way
we do business and the fact of the matter if we need to make a Charter change, that
he with expedite it, just like Peter Carlisle did. But now let us get back to what we
are looking at today and I would certainly hope my comments to the Administration
about evaluating, measuring these new programs be it based on risk, and that we
might experiment and take these risks sometimes for the benefit of things that will
work in our community. It is very important to all of us here. I also want to say I
think all of the members of this Council, and I want this to be very clear in my
interpretation of what I heard today. Many of them are very supportive of what
these benefits will be and just want to find the fact that there is a level of
COUNCIL MEETING 44 OCTOBER 10, 2012
accountability, there is a level of involvement from the administration. Everyone
here passionately is concerned with the issues in our community. I also want to
make sure that I had to read some of the rules today and so forth to make sure that
you understand when you challenge members of Council and so forth, that is not
really allowable in the sense of living aloha and I am sorry today aloha isn't always
delivering the good news. It is also being truthful and deliver something of the
conflicting news. But it is out in the open an it just makes a better sense of
compassion, I think, that Mr. Kualii has expressed today. It creates a better spirit
of community and I think right now some of the programs that we need to support
are programs that will help our young people. It is tough to be young today, it is
tough. I had brothers who were prosecutors. I have grown up in a community on
the Leeward coast of O`ahu and there were challenges everyday then. I am in my
mid-sixties now as of today and I also learned that they were apologetic to me about
my hair turning gray. Well you have that one wrong, I'm losing my hair over these
things, folks. This first and foremost today is about our community, secondly we
need to get some of those things clarified, so we have a solid understanding of the
parameters in our Charter. But my reasons to vote yes is exactly that. It is about
our young people, that is the end of business for me today. I will be voting yes.
The motion to approve C 2012-336 was then put, and carried by the following vote:
FOR APPROVAL: Chang, Kuali`i, Rapozo, Furfaro TOTAL-4,
AGAINST APPROVAL: Nakamura, Yukimura TOTAL-2,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Bynum TOTAL-0.
Chair Furfaro: On that note on that note, Councilmembers we are
going to go to a specific item dealing with wastewater on the West side. I would like
to make note to the audience, if you are going to have conversations, please carry it
out outside, because I'm going to extend our lunch hour until quarter to 1:00, so we
can address the wastewater system. Thank you everyone, Mr. Clerk, could I have
the item that I requested to be read next please.
There being no objections, C 202-375 was taken out of order..
C 2012-375 Communication (08/21/2012) from the Chief of Wastewater
Division, requesting Council approval to apply for, receive, and expend Federal
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) grant funds in the amount of $970,000.00,
with a 45% local (County in-kind) and 55% Federal match, for final design and
construction following completion of the NEPA document, and planning and
preliminary design work for the Waimea Wastewater Treatment Plant Expansion
R-1 Distribution System: Mr. Chang moved to approve C 2012-375, seconded by
Mr. Kuali`i.
Chair Furfaro: Ed, thank you for being here Director of
Engineering for Wastewater, and Mr. Dill, the County Engineer. Ed, could you give
us a little overview of the Program.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
EDWARD TSCHUPP, Chief of Wastewater: Good afternoon, for the record
Edward Tschupp, Chief of Wastewater Management Division. I am happy to be
here requesting approval to receive and expend this grant opportunity. The grant
opportunity was congressionally appropriated funds in the 2010 fiscal budget and
they were appropriated up to $970,000.00 for the purposes of improvements in
COUNCIL MEETING 45 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Waimea. This is a separate project from our Waimea Wastewater Plant expansion,
but it dovetails on that. We were notified by EPA, that is the process, the grant
application process goes through EPA and so it's a grant being administered by EPA
through their processes. It starts out with them sending us a letter basically saying
congratulations, you have got an appropriation, come in with an application, a work
plan and they have got a whole list of activities that we needed to do.
Fundamentally, including developing the scope of the proposed project and then
submitting that and having discussions with EPA about how does this all pencil out
and is this going to work out? We have been back and forth with EPA over a period
of several months now to try to refine the work plan and get it to the point where
EPA is ready to bless it and we are now at that point. Basically, I do not want to go
into or I am willing to, but I do not know how much detail you want on the actual
project. The version of the work plan is not quite the final plan, but it is close. It
was attached to our correspondence along with EPA saying "congratulations, come
in and apply." We are basically...it is the system, it is the preliminary study and an
environmental assessment type of activities that will lead to working together with
the community. There has been a lot of support from community members,
Kukui`ula Land Company and others for this project. I think that there is a lot of
nice interactions because this is basically about getting the R-1 water from the
plant to users including County parks. There is a potential for a turnout from the
existing line actually over to the existing ball field that would not be a very large
construction cost element, and potentially State hospital, the schools, as well as
landscape irrigation. We have spent a fair amount of time working with Kukui`ula
land to figure out what makes sense and I think we have a good system laid out
now. What we are hoping to do is proceed with the rollout of the capital
improvements that will make that vision of sustainable reuse of high-quality
wastewater for irrigation purposes for the community. That is the general
parameters and I am certainly willing to answer any specific questions.
Chair Furfaro: Ed, first of all, this grant, $970,000.00 will
represent 55% of the project?
Mr. Tschupp: What is the appropriation from Congress was the
$970,000.00. I think that the total project costs will end up being around three
million dollars. What EPA can award to us at this time, they cannot go beyond the
preliminary engineering leading up to an Environmental Assessment. This is sort
of Phase 1 to get us the preliminary engineering and Environmental Assessment
and we...in putting together the scope and estimating the costs of that, I came up
with a $465,000.00 approximately scope of services needed to get to the
Environmental Assessment. Of that, EPA can go with 55% you so the award would
be for 55% of the $465,000.00 and the remainder could be County funds that could
include in-service staff kind of funds. I have provided an estimate to EPA of what
we think those staffing costs would be. For the construction this is the kind of
project that our State Revolving Fund Program really likes. Actually the Health
department, who administers that SRF Program has indicated a considerable
amount of interest. We have not gone to them yet with an application yet, because
although we are on the list with them, we need to do the preliminary engineering
for the SRF funding and I will remind you that the SRF funding has been coming in
at.75% interest over a twenty (20) year period. In fact there may even be some
additional grant opportunities there. We believe that we have got adequate
matching funds within our facilities reserve, charged to cover any of the soft costs or
non-soft costs that would be involved in the County match for this first phase.
COUNCIL MEETING 46 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Chair Furfaro: I am glad to hear that you have that confidence in
this is the type of project that they really like reviewing. The only other piece that I
want to affirm, that this R-1 water is an upgrade from obviously R-2, but the reality
is this can be used with little restrictions on irrigations surfaces?
Mr. Tschupp: That is correct.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you for that presentation and for being here.
I wanted to ask you, of the $970,000.00 you are asking for $465,000.00 for
preliminary planning and engineering?
Mr. Tschupp: That is correct.
Ms. Nakamura: So the balance of the federal funds, the
$505,000.00, would that go towards construction?
Mr. Tschupp: First, I need to correct you. What we are actually
asking for at this time in this application process is 55% of $465,000.00. It works
out to $260,000.00 of the allocated $970,000.00 and the remaining balance would be
$700,000.00.
Ms. Nakamura: Could that be applied towards the next phase?
Mr. Tschupp: The caveat here is that its always possible that the
Feds will take away the money. It is incumbent upon us to move forward as quickly
as we can so that we can get the preliminary engineering and the environmental
assessment and still have the remaining funds to come in for a subsequent grant
application for construction. Then if all goes well on that path, that approximately
$700,000.00 would be available for construction funds, but they cannot allocate
those construction funds until the environmental documents are completed.
Ms. Nakamura: How much potable water to do you expect this to
free up?
Mr. Tschupp: It should be pretty close to gallon for gallon. If we
put one hundred thousand gallons of water a day of R-1 water onto the parks and
schools, then the current water...actually, I have to walk back for a minute because
the current -- for example, the parks may not be watering, as much as they would
like to. I cannot say it would be one for one when I think it through a little bit
more. But you know, if it's half for one, then we are freeing up fifty thousand
gallons day, for example, in that hundred thousand gallon and the irrigation is
better.
Ms. Nakamura: Then you are coordinating with the Water
Department of when that water will be freed up?
Mr. Tschupp: Actually we are working...we have not really made
arrangements directly with the Water Department because we are pretty early in
this process. I believe that they would be very supportive. I have not talked to
David Craddick specifically about this. But I would emphasize that our integration
right now is much more with the users and people like Kukui`ula Land Company.
Ms. Nakamura: Just for all the things that this project represents,
our environment, reusing wastewater, keeping our open space and parks green, and
COUNCIL MEETING 47 OCTOBER 10, 2012
just efficiently using our resources, I think on a lot of levels it makes a lot of sense
and I am glad you are pursuing it.
Mr. Tschupp: Thank you.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you. I agree that this is the way of the
future and it is good to see that our Wastewater Division is leading the way working
with the community. Thank you for the work in doing this. My question is what is
your system for prioritization of use of the R-1 water?
Mr. Tschupp: We are new to that business and so far the R-1
water that we have available is from the Lihu`e plant and that is under long-term
contract with Kaua`i Lagoons Resort...we do not meet the full allocation that Kauai
Lagoons worked with us on the R-1 upgrades there. Right now we basically have
one customer for R-1 water and is that Kauai Lagoons Golf Course. In Waimea,
when we go live with the R-1 water, we absolutely want...I have not established an
allocation procedure. I would think right now we can deliver with reasonable, fairly
low-costs we could deliver it to the sports field, the existing Waimea sports field
quite readily. But the rest of the system actually goes right now to the Kukui`ula
reservoir, administered by Kukui`ula Land Company. It is part of that study is to
determine how the R-1 utility, if any if you would accept that concept as an
irrigation company. How that would be established?
Ms. Yukimura: Are you retaining legal consultants for this as well?
Mr. Tschupp: Not in this allocation. We have been working
somewhat with the County Attorney's Office.
Ms. Yukimura: Because you are breaking new ground and this will
become — if it is not already, a very valuable resource. How you allocate it fairly
and how you charge for it, I do not know whether you are charging for it but you are
saying, you are acting like a utility and it seems to me that you need to start
thinking about what kind of structure this utility is going to have.
Mr. Tschupp: I absolutely agree and that is part of the sort of
management plan aspect that when we go out for the consultant to do the
environmental and preliminary engineering work, we are also including in that
scope the sort of utility management piece. With that we can get their initial input
on that, too. I think at this time it is premature to bring in a legal advisor as part of
the consulting team; however, that may be something that becomes necessary.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes. I do not know when that will be either, but I
mean for one thing, you want to make sure that the County's needs are met first for
R-1 water and then I do not know if you are charging. Do you like the Water
Department charge the County for use the water and what about the other users,
proximity, there are just huge complexity of issues to look at as you develop this.
But we all know that the sustainable future is dependent on good use of secondary
water.
Mr. Tschupp: I absolutely agree and the only thing that I have to
add to that at this time is that under our current sewer ordinance and the last time
we updated the sewer ordinance, we did include in their a provision for rates for R-2
and R-1 water. The tariff that our rate consultant at that time had come up with
for R-2 water was something along the line of deferred pumping costs, I believe the
COUNCIL MEETING 48 OCTOBER 10, 2012
number was $0.20 per thousand gallons. Now Maui County has essentially
established a utility structure in the Kihei system and they work on a sort of a what
is the deferred cost of an alternative source kind of tariff, which is what I was
envisioning. I think that the language in the R-1 tariff in our existing ordinance is
a case-by-case based on costs and to be negotiated directly with. There could be a
ordinance change coming out of having more established and this work actually
that leads us towards establishing a more island wide consistent rate for R-1, but
we are not there yet.
Ms. Yukimura: My next question may be a question for Mr. Dill.
But I mean when we develop our parks, do we put in — is this a dual water system
or do we include that in the design of our parks in preparation for our park systems
being fed by irrigation or R-1 water?
LARRY DILL, County Engineer: Good afternoon, Larry Dill, County
Engineer for the record. It would be a dual water system from the standpoint that
we continue to serve potable water to the comfort stations and the lake and then
would have a separate reclaim water purple pipe system serving all irrigation
needs. As I mentioned this is our first foray into the field and we have been
working with Parks Department as far as how we would serve their facilities they
have and are proposing on the West side. Those discussions are happening as to
how we accommodate those issues going forward.
Ms. Yukimura: I do not know if potable water needs to be used for
toilets in restrooms or whether this can be used which is another policy and design
issue that probably needs to be explored as well.
Mr. Dill: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: I kind of did a mind snap that I needed to
remember that you are not in charge of Parks anymore. But you still deal with
infrastructure within the parks.
Mr. Dill: Yes. We have had conversations with Parks
specifically about this project and how we can meet their needs.
Ms. Yukimura: I think it is important to begin to communicate
early with our fellow County Departments, like Parks, and Water. I think those
communications will be important. Thank you for answering my questions very
well and for not resenting that I asked questions .
Chair Furfaro: I do want to say that you two (2) gentlemen in
particular give me a great deal of confidence in the oversight of this project and so
forth. The fact of the matter is that Larry has managed private water and sewer
systems under KCPIC for a good portion of his time and I want to make sure that
we stay really close to the rate scheduling and use allocation and so forth. I just
want to reiterate that with you two (2) gentlemen it gives me a great deal of
confidence.
Ms. Nakamura: Just a quick comment to follow-up on the
consistency with the Kaua`i County six (6) year CIP report that some of the
numbers may not be consistent with what you are reporting today. I just want to
ask you to take a look at it and update this, so that it is consistent. Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING 49 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Chair Furfaro: If I may say, Larry, that is along the lines of
meeting that I had with you and your team yesterday on solid waste on making
sure that these items are updated in the CIP and you are giving us information as
quickly as possible on financial exposure. It is really important.
Mr. Bynum: I apologize for missing the first part, but from what
I heard, I just want to confirm you are working on the policies and procedures
regarding R-1 distribution both to ourselves potentially as customers, which will
save money if we are using R-1 water rather than potable water for irrigation and
for other end uses that might have charges involved. That is my understanding, is
that correct?
Mr. Tschupp: Yes. As part of this initial phase of getting to the
environmental assessment and preliminary engineering, I have included a task for
a management plan development that would be the start of developing that kind of
system.
Mr. Bynum: That is great. We have talked about this for
several years and the output of that expanded system is all R-1?
Mr. Tschupp: That would be for the distribution of the R-1 from
the plant.
Mr. Bynum: Which can be used to irrigate aerial parts?
Mr. Tschupp: Right. If you think about the Lydgate sports field,
that is being irrigated subsurface with R-2 and so those underground drip kind of
system would not be necessary with an R-1 system.
Mr. Bynum: I know our parks people are more comfortable
managing traditional irrigation. Thank you very much.
Chair Furfaro: Members, I have just extended with the Clerk and I
want to get this item done before we go to lunch. I have extended to the Clerk that
we'll be with this with item until 1:00, so please kokua with me so that we can get
the staff out for lunch appropriately.
Mr. Kuali`i: Aloha and mahalo for being here. You answered a
lot of my questions asked by Vice Chair Yukimura, the one thing that you
mentioned that it is like new and you mentioned we are doing it in Lihu`e. How is it
currently working in Lihu`e? We are selling it to the golf course?
Mr. Tschupp: Lihu`e was a very interesting project because
actually Kauai Lagoons, with whom we have a long-term contract to provide that
they were obligated to accept up to one and a half million gallons a day of R-2 and
they wanted that to be R-1. They basically did the design build project to do the R-
1 upgrades. The plant does not put out more than one and a half mgd right now.
Under the original agreement and them having funded the improvements, we have
not really...there were other language in that long-term contract that had talked
about establishing rates also. So far we are not providing to anybody, but Kaua`i
Lagoons and we are not really charging them because they paid for it.
COUNCIL MEETING 50 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Mr. Kuali`i: Then you used to be in charge at the Department of
Water, right?
Mr. Tschupp: That is correct.
Mr. Kuali`i: You had mentioned that no arrangements were
made yet with them and you mentioned the dual system?
Mr. Tschupp: I can say from the Department of Water's
perspective, their concern is the risk of any cross-contamination and so I am sure
they will require installation of back-flow preventers and things of that nature so
that reuse water cannot get into potable supply which is where you get into the dual
pipe and purple pipe systems. With that separation, I am not sure how extensively
we need to coordinate with them. They just find that they have more water because
the people who are irrigating off of our system are now irrigating off of our system.
Mr. Kuali`i: Then the last question those do with putting all of
the infrastructure in place and what will that take? What does this $970,000.00
represent? It is federal monies, will we be needing to get additional federal monies,
and is it that doable? How much monies will need to come from the county and will
there be any private partners also putting in monies?
Mr. Tschuppp: Yes. That was several questions that I will try to
go through them quickly. The $970,000.00 was a federal allocation in support of
work on wastewater in Waimea. I think I mentioned before that I estimated that
what I can envision at this time in today's dollars for the system, which would
include a tank and some pipeline improvements and some improvements on the
distribution system and there is an existing distribution system owned-and-
operated by Kukui`ula Land Company that I think it is not that far apart. I view
that as around three million dollars of improvements of which the $970,000.00 can
pay for the preliminary studies, which is the current application, as well as any
remaining funds that don't get taken away by Congress, could go towards
construction once the environmental documents are completed. That leaves roughly
two million that would need to be funded elsewhere of the total construction costs. I
would think that because of the SRF program funds that twenty (20) year, it is
Federal, but these kind of grants do not come up very much and I think that the
way EPA is basically administering things is typically trying to fund things through
SRF and that is a very favorable type of funding for us. Private involvement,
absolutely required because we are talking about rights of way that are owned by
Kukui`ula Land and actually, if we can tie into the Kukui`ula-the existing non-
potable water distribution system that Kukui`ula currently operates then we are
almost there and that is why I think it only ends up being three million dollars. A
lot of that is a few fairly short pipeline segments and a tank and maintenance and
repair activities. But that is part of the complexity of setting up essentially the
utility type of structure of a reuse system is that I'm not sure whether this ends up
becoming something that we go to Kukui`ula Land and ask them for easements and
then the County operates that system or whether it is something that works out to
be or they become a customer of us and it could be Kukui`ula land company or some
other non-profit or private type of enterprise could perhaps set up an irrigation
company and we just give them a meter. There are many different possible
structures all of which include cooperation with your private partners.
Mr. Kuali`i: Thank you very much.
COUNCIL MEETING 51 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Chair Furfaro: Any other questions for the gentlemen here before I
call up any other testimony.
Ms. Yukimura: Your system will take into count the existing public
institutions like the schools and hospitals?
Mr. Tschupp: Yes. The existing efflon line up to the reservoir
goes pretty close to those kinds of things.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes. Right, they are logical.
Mr. Tschupp: If we can connect across there is a lot of potential
users including like the Church Cemetery and some people in town that are crying
for water. So there is a lot of potential for reuse water in Waimea, probably more
than we will end up having supply for in the long run so there may need to be
supplemental non-portable water system development too. Your earlier point about
needing some legal utility system consultation is spot on.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Dill and Ed, thank you for the comment on the
spot on but I think in my comments earlier. Again, I have a lot of confidence with
you that you will stay very close to Vice Chair's recommendation in the next phase.
I'm going to excuse you.
Mr. Mickens: If I heard the County Attorney properly, he has
ruled that the grant of 35 000.00 for the P.O.H.A.K.U. Program is illegal since the
g $35,000.00 g g
Charter doesn't sanction it, does that mean that any grant such as this $970,000.00
grant or any other grant not in the Charter is also illegal?
Chair Furfaro: Glenn, I already have a County Attorney opinion on
that that has been distributed. So we are fine at this particular point.
Mr. Mickens: So what he said about bein g illegal,al, is that true or
isn't it true?
Chair Furfaro: I have answered your question and if I reference
the rules, the questions to the Chair should be limited and I have answered that we
have a legal opinion...
Mr. Mickens: From County Attorney?
Chair Furfaro: From the County Attorney on this grant. We have
one.
Mr. Mickens: He said it is illegal so then is any Program not
under the Charter illegal?
Chair Furfaro: In all fairness, I would like to let the County
Attorney answer my questions that I gave him until October 17th it answer that,
and those questions were about other grants. His point is within the role of
Section 92-B of the Charter, the Prosecutor's office does not explicitly give them that
authority for diversion, that is a separate legal question piggy-backed with the
COUNCIL MEETING 52 OCTOBER 10, 2012
question on these other agencies and we did get a legal opinion back so we are fine
at this point.
Mr. Mickens: So he will be back on the 17th to answer the major
question which is whether all grants have to be in the Charter to be able to be
legitimate or not?
Chair Furfaro: The questions that I sent over the on the second of
October, there were four (4) parts to the question. The one that I am focused on
right now for this agenda item is we got a legal opinion on this.
Mr. Mickens: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Anyone else who wishes to give public testimony?
MIKE FAYE, Chairman, Board of Kukui`ula Land Company: About a
little more than two (2) years ago when the Sewage Treatment Plant upgrade
became real, we realized there was going to be this high-quality R-1 water.
Kukui`ula land has been taking the sewage affluent from the Waimea sewage plant
since 1972 when it was built. With an increase this could go up to seven hundred
fifty thousand gallons. The first thing we were concerned about is without a water
reuse program, the wastewater, which is currently designed, would be injected into
the ground, or used for basically corn field irrigation. Which is a concern to us,
because that water can never get into the ocean and so for our land, we have had to
make sure since 1972 and the Clean Water Act, we have had to make sure that the
water in our irrigation reservoirs never got to the ocean. Actually the only time it
could be is under severe storm events. About two and a half years ago we saw this
as just a wonderful opportunity. We have had the benefit of our ditch water system,
which we can still use it which is a dual-use system, and when this came available
to use we looked around and said the park could use some water, hospital could use
more water, Waimea Intermediate could use some water and those are all, about
our property and it would be easy to get the water there. Then we looked at
Waimea High School and those fields out there are usually pretty dry and with a
little bit of extra, maybe we could do this. We did call all of those players together
about two years ago and talked about those possibilities and because we were using
wastewater that we would have some reluctance. But actually, everybody in that
room supported it one hundred percent and have been asking where is it? They are
waiting for it. Another program that we had, as you know, our West Kaua`i
business and our main street we had that Greening Program to green the highway.
The recent pipe work in Waimea dug all of that up and if you drive through Waimea
right now and it was not an official D.O.T. Improvement, it was not on their maps.
The contractors came in and dug it all up and we are trying to get that back. We
want to see if this water can be used for that. The long and short of it is as Ed
mentioned there is going to need to be a private/public partnership and Kukui`ula
Land is firmly behind participating in this, we have always supported the
community and we want to continue. We really look forward to this and think this
could be a great pilot project for the entire island and perhaps the entire State.
Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Any questions, members? If not, thank
you very much.
Mr. Faye: Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING 53 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Mr. Taylor: Chair, members of the Council, my name is Ken
Taylor. I do not think that at this point in time you should approve this grant
request. I think a cost-benefit analysis needs to be done to justify the potential
expenses that would be incurred here. I do not disagree that it is beneficial to use
reclaimed water, but there is a lot of costs involved and a lot of issues that do not
seem to be addressed from what I see in this document. But what is the cost of
installing the purple pipe system and pumping costs and will there be a charge for
the water? What are the health departments rules and regulations on R-1 water
use? Can a property have both potable water and R-1 water hookups? Those are
just some of the questions that come to mind quickly but I know there is a lot more,
and until these are answered, I do not think you should move forward with this
grant request. Thank you.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: I would like to reemphasize my earlier comment
between Engineer Ed Tschupp, and Engineer Larry Dill, we probably have the
two (2) finest water/wastewater personnel available on Kaua`i and maybe even in
State with these two (2) gentlemen. I have a lot of confidence in them and the
questions raised by Vice Chair Yukimura is a very credible one and know you heard
it about getting us to the next phase. I will be supporting this one hundred percent.
Any other comments before I call for the vote?
Mr. Chang: I think that it was a great observation and I
wanted to share my support to those two (2) fine gentlemen. I also want to
comment, Ed, because I have never seen anyone with more knowledge articulate
with so much enthusiasm about water than Ed Tschupp.
Ms. Yukimura: And sewage.
Mr. Chang: That was great, thank you.
Mr. Bynum: I am in full support of this and I think it is a great
win-win situations and I want to echo the Chair's comments that we have really
quality individuals. Ed has taught me more about bugs than I ever wanted to
know...
Ms. Yukimura: Bugs?
Mr. Bynum: It is unusual to have someone be enthusiastic
about wastewater, but Ed is. This is an opportunity where wastewater as a product
is a win-win for the County and the community and also make it affordable to put
green waste on the dry West side where normally you could not do that. I think Mr.
Taylor raised good questions and that is something that they know a lot about and
that we have discussed on other projects, particularly at Lydgate. So just briefly, it
is okay to use R-1 water for these purposes and the Health Department rules are
clear and these individuals know them really well. Thank you.
Ms. Yukimura: I think this is a wonderful pilot project and is
paving the way for the future. We are going to have to go to dual-water use systems
and we need to reuse our effluent waters. I think this is a good project that has a
detailed work plan and a good discussion of the phases. I believe the questions
asked by Mr. Taylor will be answered in the first phase and I want to thank
COUNCIL MEETING 54 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Kukui`ula Company and Mike Faye for their early participation, sharing of
knowledge and their cooperation. It all reflects a very important public/private
partnership and I will be voting for this.
Chair Furfaro: Anyone else before I speak? I too would like to
thank the Land Company for staying focused as well as the partnership that has
developed with the County over the years with the County. The value of this project
will reflect good things for the community. On that note I would like to do a roll call
vote please.
The motion to approve C 2012-375 was then put, and carried by the following vote:
FOR APPROVAL: Bynum, Chang, Kuali`i, Nakamura, Rapozo, TOTAL-7,
Yukimura, Furfaro
AGAINST APPROVAL: None TOTAL-0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL-0.
There being no objections, the Council recessed at 1:00 p.m.
The Council reconvened at 2:05 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
CONSENT CALENDAR:
C 2012-391 Communication (09/26/2012) from Councilmember Kuali`i,
providing written disclosure of a possible conflict of interest and recusal, relating to
the request for the Prosecuting Attorney to apply for, receive and expend
Non-Compliant Sexual Offender Unit Federal Funds, due to his employment with
the YWCA: Mr. Chang moved to receive C 2012-391 for the record, seconded by
Ms. Yukimura, and unanimously carried.
C 2012-392 Communication (09/13/2012) from Councilmember Bynum
providing written disclosure of a possible conflict of interest and recusal, relating to
C 2012-389 and ES-576 on the October 3, 2012 Special Council Meeting regarding
Tim Bynum vs. County of Kaua`i, et. al., Civil No. CV12-00523 RPL (U.S. District
Court): Mr. Chang moved to receive C 2012-392 for the record, seconded by
Ms. Yukimura, and unanimously carried.
C 2012-406 Communication (09/13/2012) from the County Engineer,
transmitting for council consideration a traffic resolution which establishes, "No
Parking At Any Time - Fire Lane" and "Tow Away Zone" at the County of Kaua`i's
Pi'ikoi and Kapule Buildings at the Lihu`e Civic Center, Lihu'e District: Mr. Chang
moved to receive C 2012-406 for the record, seconded by Ms. Yukimura, and
unanimously carried.
C 2012-393 Communication (09/10/2012) from the Planning Director,
transmitting for consideration, the Planning Commission's recommendation to
amend the conditions in Ordinance No. PM-175-88, Princeville, Kaua`i, Tax Map
Key No.: (4) 5-4-024:020 (Princeville SC Development, LLC Applicant.): Mr. Chang
COUNCIL MEETING 55 OCTOBER 10, 2012
moved to receive C 2012-393 for the record, seconded by Ms. Yukimura, and
unanimously carried.
C 2012-394 Communication (10/03/2012) from Council Chair,
transmitting for the consideration A Proposed Draft Bill For An Ordinance
Regarding Article 1, Chapter 19 of the Kaua`i County Code 1987 As Amended,
Relating To Parks and Recreation — Prohibiting Fishing At Lydgate Beach Park
Pond: Mr. Chang moved to receive C 2012-394 for the record, seconded by
Ms. Yukimura, and unanimously carried.
C 2012-395 Communication (10/03/2012) from Councilmember Yukimura
and Councilmember Bynum, transmitting for the consideration a Bill For An
Ordinance Relating To The Public Access, Open Space, and Natural Resources
Preservation Fund to increase the annual allocation to the Fund from a minimum of
j one-half of one percent (0.5%) to one and one-half of one percent (1.5%) of the
County's certified real property tax revenue: Mr. Chang moved to receive
C 2012-395 for the record, seconded by Ms. Yukimura, and unanimously carried.
C 2012-396 Communication (10/03/2012) from Councilmember Nakamura,
providing written disclosure of a possible conflict of interest and recusal relating to
C 2012-393 and Proposed Draft Bill No. 2451 regarding Princeville SC
Development, LLC because her husband provided legal representation to the
parties in this matter: Mr. Chang moved to receive C 2012-396 for the record,
seconded by Ms. Yukimura, and unanimously carried.
C 2012-407 Communication (10/04/2012) from Councilmember Bynum,
providing written disclosure of a posible conflict of interest and recusal relating to
C 2012-336 regarding the Keiki P.O.H.A.K.U. Diversion Program due to his
involvement in Tim Bynum vs. County of Kaua`i, et. al., Civil No. CV12-00523 RPL
(U.S. District Court): Mr. Chang moved to receive C 2012-407 for the record,
seconded by Ms. Yukimura, and unanimously carried.
COMMUNICATIONS:
C 2012-376 Communication (08/24/2012) from the Environmental Services
Management Engineer, requesting Council approval to accept a one-year trial of the
"Catalog Choice for Communities" program valued at $3,500.00 to assist Kaua`i
County residents with eliminating unwanted mailings through a web-based opt-out
system, free of charge with no obligation to renew for a second year: Mr. Bynum
moved to approve C 2012-376, seconded by Mr. Chang.
Chair Furfaro: On that note, Mr. Dill, Troy, we have received an
evaluation back from the County Attorney, is either of you going to speak on this
item now?
COUNCIL MEETING 56 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Mr. Dill: Only if you have questions that oppose.
Chair Furfaro: Let me see if members have questions? No
members have questions.
The motion to approve C 2012-376 was the put, and unanimously carried.
C 2012-379 Communication (08/29/2012) from the Environmental Services
Management Engineer, requesting Council approval to accept a grant not to exceed
$100,000.00 from the State Department of Health for Electronic Device Recycling
including community collections, education and outreach, and reporting activities:
Mr. Bynum moved to approve C 2012-379, seconded by Ms. Yukimura.
Mr. Rapozo: Mr. Chair, can we get an overview of that as well?
Chair Furfaro: Which member of your Division will give us an
overview of this? Troy?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
TROY TANIGAWA, Public Works, Management Engineer: The funds
connected to request are from the State Department of Health is based on electronic
recycling initiatives that were adopted and passed by the Department of Health. In
January 2010, the State of Hawai`i passed the Hawaii Electronics Waste and
Television Recycling and Recovery Act. It requires electronic manufacturers to
provide recycling programs for certain types of electronics deemed covered
electronics. Unfortunately these programs that these manufacturers offered, on the
neighbor islands have been mainly including mail-back type programs and not
collection events. These have been perceived to be very inconvenient by the public.
These limitations have resulted in the State offering more convenient on-island
programs for certain covered electronics which is the purpose of this grant. For the
past few years the County has sponsored annual E-waste recycling events and this
is an opportunity with these funds to improve on the services that we have
provided.
Mr. Rapozo: The County is going to run collection program?
Mr. Tanigawa: We will issues a contract to a vendor to do
collection events.
Mr. Rapozo: You folks are going out to bid on this?
Mr. Tanigawa: Yes.
Mr. Rapozo: Are there many people that do this on Kauai?
COUNCIL MEETING 57 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Mr. Tanigawa: There are several people and recently it has gotten
very competitive. We actually had a zero bid for the past electronic recycling event
and it shows a lot of promise that the funds can go a long way.
Mr. Rapozo: When do you expect the bid notification and notices
to go out?
Mr. Tanigawa: It should go out this fiscal year. I would say by the
early part 2013 we should have something ready to hit the streets.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Any more questions? If not thank you, Troy.
Chair Furfaro: Is there anyone in the audience that wishes to
testify on this item? Come right up Lonnie.
LONNIE SYKOS: I am all in favor of this. My last flight back from
the mainland I sat next to a guy whose business in California was doing electronic
recycling and couple of hours of conversation and I was shocked at how big this
industry is globally. We think about gold and platinum and things, but one of the
things that they recover is rare earth minerals. These are way more valuable
recycling than gold, platinum and the other metals. They are also extremely toxic
in our landfills so I am all for this. But given the expense and the issues are the
same in all of the outer island counties, I would encourage the Council to encourage
the Administration to look into if we can hui up with the other island counties and
end up way single recycling facility, so that each of the counties does not have to
create one and move it interisland by Young Brothers. I do not know if Kaua`i
would be the appropriate location or somewhere else. But there is a possibility here
for long-term saving money for us if we hui up with the other counties. I d not know
if it is practical since I have not done any research, but that is my observation.
Thank you very much.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you, Lonnie. Are there any questions for
Lonnie? Thank you very much Lonnie. Anyone else wishing to testify on this item?
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: Seeing no one we have a motion and a second. All
those is favor?
Ms. Yukimura: Oh, Chair?
COUNCIL MEETING 58 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Chair Furfaro: Did you want to have discussion before we call the
vote?
Ms. Yukimura: I just wanted to call attention to our Engineer and
Solid Waste Manager, because I d not think they heard what Lonnie's suggestion
was, but there seemed to be some merit into looking into it. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: I would suggest if you pursue what Lonnie had to
say, that somewhere along the line you also communicate any possibilities to
Mr. Rapozo, as he is President of the Hawai`i State Association of Counties. It
might be something that they could put on their shared agenda. Thank you, Vice
Chair Yukimura. I would like to again call for the vote.
The motion to approve C 2012-376 was the put, and unanimously carried.
C 2012-397 Communication (09/24/2012) from the Director of Finance,
transmitting the Condition of the County Treasury Statement quarterly report as of
August 13, 2012: Mr. Chang moved to receive C 2012-397 for the record, seconded
by Ms. Yukimura, and unanimously carried.
C 2012-398 Communication (08/23/2012) from the Chief of Police, requesting
Council consideration and approval to accept a donation of twelve (12) sunglasses
with a built in bi-focal feature to enhance Police Officer safety, from Licia
McDonald, Marketing and Sales Representative of Hawaiian Lenses: Mr. Kuali`i
moved to approve with a thank-you letter to Licia McDonald of Marketing and
Sales Representative of Hawaiian Lenses, seconded by Mr. Chang, and
unanimously carried.
C 2012-399 Communication (09/4/2012) from the Chief of Police, requesting
Council approval to expend approximately $140,000.00 in assest forteiture funds
(Acct No. 206-1001-551.30-00) to purchase an Evidence Collection Vehicle, which will
replace the 2002 Ford Explorer with vehicle mileage of 148,466: Mr. Kauli`i moved
to approve, seconded by Mr. Chang.
Chair Furfaro: I asked the staff to circulate to you folks a brochure
on the specifications on this particular piece of equipment. On that note, I can
suspend the rules. Lonnie, am I seeing that you want to testify on this item?
Mr. Sykos: On the previous item.
Chair Furfaro: I tell you what, I will open up testimony when we
come back from the break on that item. Is anyone in the audience wishing to testify
COUNCIL MEETING 59 OCTOBER 10, 2012
on the particulars and scope of the equipment that has been submitted to us for the
Police Officer's requirement here? No?
The motion to approve C 2012-399 was then put, and unanimously carried.
C 2012-400 Communication (09/05/2012) from the Chief of Police, requesting
Council approval to accept and expend S.T.O.P. Violence Against Women Grant
funds in the amount of $63,871.00 to be used for a Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner
(SANE) Coordinator, non-reporting SANE examinations, and SANE standby pay,
and to indemnify the State of Hawai`i, Department of the Attorney general:
Ms. Yukimura moved to approve, seconded by Mr. Chang.
Ms. Yukimura: I believe this is a repeat grant and I remember last
year asking for a deferral and time to ask questions. I am convinced it is a very
good program and well implemented by our Police Department and I think the
YWCA.
Chair Furfaro: I am not sure if the YWCA is involved.
Ms. Yukimura: It is just our Police Department so I am more than
happy to vote for it.
The motion to approve C 2012-400 was then out, and unanimously carried.
Chair Furfaro: On that note, we are going to take a tape change
now.
There being no objections, the Council recessed at 2:18 p.m.
There Council reconvened at 2:22 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
C 2012-401 Communication (09/11/2012) from the Civil Defense Agency,
requesting Council approval to receive and expend grant funds from the U.S.
Department of Homeland Security, via the State of Hawai`i Department of Defense
in the amount of $359,925.00, to be used for the FY 2012 State Homeland Security
Program which will enhance the capability of State and local units of government to
prevent, deter, respond to and recover from, threats and incidents of terrorism, and
to continue to provide support to the Citizen Core Councils.
Chair Furfaro: Before I ask Civil Defense to come up, Lonnie, I am
going to allow you three (3) minutes to give testimony on an item that we previously
took action on. Please come up and state your name and the testimony item that
you are giving because we are out of sequence and that is my fault.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Mr. Sykos: Thank you, Chairman, for the opportunity to speak.
I wanted to speak on C 2012-398. In general, I am completely supportive of
COUNCIL MEETING 60 OCTOBER 10, 2012
providing the materials and resources required by K.P.D. to perform their duties.
However, I do have an issue with this gift of sunglasses with built-in bifocal feature.
Are these prescription glasses? Does anyone know?
Chair Furfaro: I know that they are bifocal in design so that when
the officers are parked in their car, you have got a reflection coming off of their
windshield, and they are allowed to adjust it. But are they actually prescription? I
am not sure, but I do know they are bifold in nature for that purpose. Are there any
Councilmembers able to answer that question?
Mr. Bynum: Yes, and I am happy to say that the supporting
documents are online for anybody to look at. It looks to me that they are regular
sunglasses that have the kind that you buy at the store, for when you are looking
down...reading glasses. The value is $20.00 a piece, so I doubt highly that they are
prescription.
Mr. Sykos: The reason that I am here is just the matter of
principle. As a normal course of business, would K.P.D. purchase such an item for
the officers? I am not asking for an answer, this is just a rhetorical question. So if
K.P.D. buys sunglasses, that is one issue. But if they do not buy sunglasses,
currently this marketing effort and a tip of the hat to Ms. McDonald here, that
apparently is designed to encourage K.P.D. to buy more of these in the future. I am
simply asking if this is an appropriate way for the County to choose to do business.
This is a vendor circumventing the normal procurement process which means that
they would have to compete with other vendors out there. That is the reason I came
up.
Chair Furfaro: Before I give Mr. Bynum the floor, I am glad—in
my query, it was just about helping them with the reflection in the cars that they
could tilt the degree on the sunglasses for the purpose of a lot of strain on the eyes
sometimes make you a little sleepy at the wheel. But I saw that as a safety issue.
Mr. Bynum, you want to add to that?
Mr. Bynum: I will just take a moment to respond. I think it is
an interesting question and it may be a marketing effort to do that and it turns out
that it is a safety improvement and makes our officers more effective. The Police
Department may choose to budget for that and purchase them and that is their
kuleana. But if that happens, I know for sure they will have to go through a normal
procurement process. So even if it is a marketing effort, "here are twelve (12) sets of
sunglasses. See if it is really something good." That includes productivity and
safety. It is an interesting question, but I am okay with approving this, personally.
Mr. Sykos: My deal in this is that the sunglasses are asked to
be approved for safety reasons. But what is your baseline to measure safety?
Right? You are taking on a liability that they may or may not do what they say
what they are going to do and again, this is not about this product. It is about the
process of introducing new equipment to the Police Department. I mean, certainly
vendors need to be promoting new concepts, right? So I am not saying it should not
be done, I am just asking the question of if this is the appropriate way.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you for the question, Lonnie. I hope we
have been able to respond to it in some fashion at this point, but I see the need and
hopefully it can reduce any challenges that the officers have. On that note, Civil
Defense, would you come up?
COUNCIL MEETING 61 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Chair Furfaro: Okay, Ted. We read the item for you and I am
giving you an opportunity to give us an overview on this item.
THEODORE DALIGDIG, III, Civil Defense Manager: The item that is in
front of you is a grant amount of your sub grantee. It involves a couple of things
that we do and when I say "we" because I have to refer to the Police and Fire
Department in part. But I have to be really careful in disclosing what the grant is
used for, because I would have to go into capabilities and we are not permitted to
discuss that unless we are in Executive Session. But I have had three questions
that were sent to me earlier and if I could, I would like to answer those questions
for Councilwoman Nakamura, I believe it was. The first question was, "how is the
budget funds used?" As I said earlier, in order for me to really disclose how we use
the funds, I would have to ask you to go into Executive Session, because it involves
capabilities, vulnerabilities and we do not want the other guys to know that. The
question also deals specifically with the Citizen Core Council that we received
monies for in that grant and that amount is about $24,000.00 and it involves the
C.E.R.T.S. program. The Community Emergency Response Team, C.E.R.T.S., that
is the program that is actually being handled by the Fire Department. So I would
have to defer to them if you have specific questions. The neighborhood watch theme
is another program that the funds come through us, but it is actually a program
handled by the Kaua`i Police Department.
The third question is, "what are the program outlines for the grant
application?" For that I am going to have to put on my glasses. We have the sub
grantees of the application. The State of Hawai`i Civil Defense is the main party.
Our projected goals and objectives are collaboration between all of the different
islands. Again, this would involve us disclosing details that we are not allow doing
in public, but we can in Executive Session. Those are the answers to the questions.
Are there any more questions?
Chair Furfaro: Ted, I am wondering and maybe the County
Attorney can give us a briefing on this. I have watched the Fire Commission once.
I watched the Police Commission once, recently. I do not want to say that I only
watched once in ten years, but I have watched periodically and the question comes
up about these funds and the Police Commissioners are told, because it is F.E.M.A.
guided, they cannot answer the questions in details. The same thing comes up with
the Fire Department. We have got these monies and cannot really discuss with you
because of the issues associated with confidentiality with F.E.M.A. Now, it is like
deja vu again. So maybe this should be an Executive Session item?
Mr. Daligdig: I would suggest, Mr. Chair, if the Council wants
more detailed answers we could go into Executive Session and I have brought my
team with you so we can reveal the information that we can present to you.
Chair Furfaro: I think that is what we will do because after
watching on television the last few weeks with Fire Department and Police, it is all
about this secrecy of the moneys being spent to protect us and I think at least the
Council should have this as an Executive Session item.
Mr. Daligdig: I agree, and we are willing to go into Executive
Session.
COUNCIL MEETING 62 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Chair Furfaro: Members, are you okay with that? Can I take some
discussion from you?
Mr. Rapozo: I would suggest that we refer this to the Public
Safety Committee and set an Executive Session for that time. I do not know.
Chair Furfaro: Do you agree with me?
Mr. Rapozo: Yes, to some extent, but I do not understand where
the prohibition is. Is it a F.E.M.A. prohibition that we cannot discuss?
Mr. Daligdig: It is a Federal grant prohibition that comes out of
F.E.M.A.
Mr. Rapozo: Is it spelled out "prohibition" that you cannot
discuss some of this? I am not asking to find out— my question is out of
$359,000.00, how much is for training and how much is for equipment? I cannot
imagine that being in Executive Session but just a breakdown like that, but just to
come up with, "we need $359,000.00, but we cannot tell you." If we could have a
break down, such as out of that how much is for training? How much is for travel?
How much is for equipment? I do not know where to start to think where this is
going to go...and neighborhood watches and C.E.R.T.S. Again, that is a whole other
discussion. Is C.E.R.T.S. something that we are going to beef up? C.E.R.T.S.
discussion is not Executive Session.
Chair Furfaro: I want to make myself clear. I have seen it now
three (3) times. I am saying I want to know why. Secondly, if I am getting
equipment, I want to know if there is any contingency tied to the Federal
Government about the use and maybe even future returning of the equipment. Or
if we take the equipment and something does not function right that we are
accepting the liability to reimburse or whose implied warranty if we have to send a
truck back? I agree with Mr. Rapozo, about what part of the grant should actually
be on the agenda, which is something that we can talk about and break it down in
committee.
Mr. Daligdig: Sure, I can.
Chair Furfaro: I am just saying in around about way, are we
getting fire trucks to fight interior fires? What are we getting here?
Mr. Daligdig: I have the breakdown that Councilmember
Rapozo...
Chair Furfaro: Well, give us the breakdown.
Mr. Daligdig: I can give you the breakdown. For the Citizens
Core we have $24,925.00.
Chair Furfaro: No, I am not asking you to read. I want you to send
me a memorandum telling me what the breakdown is, so I can say, "okay, these
items go to Mr. Rapozo's Committee and we can talk about them openly," and so
forth. Then for these items that have prohibition from the Federal Government,
they will go to the Executive Session. That is what I am looking for.
COUNCIL MEETING 63 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Mr. Daligdig: Yes, sir, I can do that.
Chair Furfaro: Is in that acceptable to you, Mr. Rapozo?
Mr. Rapozo: Yes, Sir.
Ms. Yukimura: I like that you divided up those things that were to
be discussed in public and the Executive Session. I did have some questions about
the Citizens Core Program and C.E.R.T.S. and the neighborhood watch as well. If
we put it in a Committee where we can ask these questions in the open and then go
into Executive Session for things that we are not able to discuss, or if we are
prohibited from discussing. In the public, I think that would be a good way.
Chair Furfaro: Between you and Mark, can you get that turn
around to me by tomorrow so I can post next week Wednesday for those items that
should be in Committee?
Mr. Daligdig: Yes. I have to turn it to Mark, because I leave at
6:15 tonight and I will be away for four (4) days. May I ask if you have the
questions, it would help us a lot to prepare for us to get the right and full answers.
Chair Furfaro: First you get me the breakdown urgently, so that I
can post it accordingly because next week is the Public Safety Committee.
Mr. Daligdig: Yes, sir, I can.
Chair Furfaro: Then the following week, we will put an Executive
Session on those that are prohibitions on them from the Federal Government.
Mr. Daligdig: Yes, sir, I can do that.
Chair Furfaro: And Vice Chair Yukimura, could you hold your
questions until next week?
Ms. Yukimura: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Very good. Jade, did you hear what we are trying
to do? So get that in to Jade as soon as you possibly can, Ted. If you could, Mark,
we will go from there?
Mr. Daligdig: We can do that.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Gentlemen, I am going to excuse you from
there. Is there any public testimony on this item? Yes, come right up, Lonnie.
Mr. Sykos: As I stated earlier, and as my communications with
Chief Perry will demonstrate, I am fully supportive of our Police Department and
our Fire Departments' public safety and public security functions. However, in
regards to this grant, I am adamantly opposed to moving forward and accepting
taking this grant as-is. My rationale is this, who controls the Kaua`i Police
Department and the Kaua`i Fire Department? Is it Homeland Security or is it the
people of Kaua`i? And so, as the Council has taken into account, there are perhaps
parts of this that can have public disclosure and there are parts that do not have
public disclosure. I am speaking now because of my unhappiness, my extreme
COUNCIL MEETING 64 OCTOBER 10, 2012
unhappiness that Civil Defense and thus the Police and Fire have presented this to
us with the expectation that we will give them a blind check to do whatever they
want. They work for us and I thank the Chair for the questions that he raised. And
I hope all of the Council does their due diligence to figure out what the public can be
told and should be told and whether or not all of the money is spent in ways that we
believe are appropriate for here on Kaua`i. Public oversight is required. For myself,
I have been vetted by the F.B.I. since 1962 in second grade because of my father's
employment. I have been vetted multiple times in my adult life and it is insulting
so someone who risked their life hunting Soviet submarines that what occurs within
the Kaua`i Police Department is presumed that people like me, who have served
their Country, should not know what is going on. If the Country wants to be safe,
we need informed citizens. That is the essence of democracy is informed citizenry.
The threat of al-Qaeda or the threat of a lone wolf or the threat of whatever, is not
superior to the threat of an ignorant public. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: So you support how I am going divvy this up?
Mr. Sykos: Correct. Thank you very much.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: Is there anyone else who wishes to speak to this
item? If not, I guess I would like a motion because we have no motion on the floor.
Mr. Rapozo moved to refer C 2012-401 to the Public Safety and
Environmental Services Committee, seconded by Mr. Bynum.
Chair Furfaro: I would like to modify that to say "portions" of this
item.
Mr. Rapozo: Yes, I could do that. I do not know what portion it
is, though.
Chair Furfaro: None of us know, but we will depend on them to
send us a communication. I would like to note that and I will expedite it for next
week.
Mr. Rapozo moved to refer C 2012-401 to the Public Safety Committee with a
p Y
follow-up posting to be made at the discretion of the Chair for Executive
Session, seconded by Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Kuali`i: I just had a quick thought, Chair. So in the
response to questions, if an Agency, any Department feels that it is confidential, the
Council can receive confidential communications as well. I mean we receive them
all the time from the Attorneys. So I just want to make note that that was an
option that we could have received a breakdown in that manner.
Chair Furfaro: You are correct. I guess my point was that after
the last three (3) weeks watching the Police Commission and watching the Fire
Commission and just kind of getting this, "we were sworn to secretly and so forth,
but we need you to vote." I am kind of going, "that is not how we vote." You need it
know what you are voting on first. We have a motion and a second. Thank you for
the commentary. Next item, please.
COUNCIL MEETING 65 OCTOBER 10, 2012
The motion to refer C 2012-401 to the Public Safety Committee with a follow-
up posting to be made at the discretion of the Chair for Executive Session
was then put, and unanimously carried.
C 2012-402 Communication (09/20/2012) from the Executive on Aging,
requesting Council approval to receive and expend State of Hawai`i funds and to
indemnify the State of Hawai`i Executive Office on Aging (for additional Kupuna
Care funding from the State Legislature in the amount of $275,946.00): Mr. Rapozo
moved to approve C 2012-402, seconded by Mr. Chang.
Ms. Yukimura: I just want to say that the Agency on Aging has a
stellar record of applying for and administering grants. I am happy to vote for this.
Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: I would also like to acknowledge the Executive on
Aging, their Home Healthcare Program has won the applause of many individuals
in our community and I want to thank them for the very, very good work that they
continue to do. Thank you very much.
The motion to approve c 2012-402 was then put, and unanimously carried.
LEGAL DOCUMENTS:
C 2012-385 Communication (08/28/2012) from the Civil Defense Manager,
recommending Council approval for the second amendment, five (5) year lease
agreement between the County of Kaua`i and Bank of Hawai`i, Trustee of the
Kukuiolono Park Trust Estate, which extends the lease of the County's 800 MHz
radio site located at Kukuiolono Park in Kalaheo, Kauai, Hawai`i, for emergency
radio communications for the County of Kaua`i, which license fee will be paid in
incremental increases of three percent (3%) each year for the five (5) year period
commencing July 1, 2012.
• Second Amendment of License Agreement
Mr. Bynum moved to approve C 2012-385, seconded by Mr. Chang.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Mr. Daligdig: Chelsie, is not related to this item so I am going to
leave her back there but she was here to answer questions from a previous item.
Chair Furfaro: How long has Chelsie been with your Department?
Mr. Daligdig: She has been here as long as I have been here and
more.
MARK MARSHALL, Emergency Management Officer: Chelsie has been
g Y g
with us for about two and a half years. She just recently married, too.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you for being with us and congratulations.
Chelsie, thank you very much. Gentlemen, you want to go over this legal document
a little bit with us?
Mr. Daligdig: Yes, this request for approval of the second
amendment is related to the Kukuiolono Park trust lands that we have a
COUNCIL MEETING 66 OCTOBER 10, 2012
transmittal site located. The contract expired this past June. I have been working
with the Trust Attorney since January to negotiate a contract and I was hoping to
negotiate a contract before it expired, but I was not successful. In May, he came up
with a proposal that we would realize an 18% increase each year for five (5) years. I
was able to negotiate with him over the phone for an increase of 5% versus 18%.
But when I put the document together, I accidentally pressed "3" instead of the "5".
And as a result, he still approved it. So I am asking that the Council considering
approving this contact for a period of five (5) years with an increase of 3% each year.
Chair Furfaro: So Ted, are you telling me in the future we should
have you type your negotiated contracts, so that your clerical error plays hard ball
with a customer?
Mr. Daligdig: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Eventually are we going to look into other options?
Mr. Daligdig: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: This seems to be an ongoing revisit every five (5)
years.
Mr. Daligdig: Right. What we have considered was executing
this contract so we could pay what we owe and use part of the time to negotiate
probably a land purchase or something of that sort.
Chair Furfaro: Do I understand that we are somewhat in arrears
right now because of terms in the contract that unless we had a new contract, we
were not to be paying the fees?
Mr. Daligdig: Yes. Right now the arrears total up to $14,000.00.
It is increased by every month that it will be not paying the contract. The reason
why we are not paying the contract is the County Finance—in the absence of a
contract, we cannot pay the amount due.
Chair Furfaro: I would think that if there is a term in the contract
that says if we do not sign the contract, the terms can be extended month-to-month
while we negotiate. Is that not an indication that we should pay the bill?
Mr. Daligdig: Mr. Chair, we have our Attorney here, Justin
Kollar, and I would like to ask him to come up and explain to you why we cannot do
that.
Chair Furfaro: Justin, would you come and sit next to Mark.
JUSTIN KOLLAR, Deputy County Attorney: Good afternoon, Justin
Kollar, for the record, Mr. Chair.
Chair Furfaro: So you heard my question, although the contract is
expired, I would assume there is a term in the contract that allows us to pay month
to-month while we negotiate?
Mr. Kollar: There is not any term in the contract that does
provide for that.
COUNCIL MEETING 67 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Chair Furfaro: It does not provide for what? Month-to-month?
Mr. Kollar: That would not provide for a hold over tenancy or
something in that nature.
Chair Furfaro: No hold over tenancy?
Mr. Kollar: Right, because contracts involving the County—a
holdover tenancy is essentially a new contract. That is a new tenancy. All
contracts involving the County need to be in writing and signed by the Department
of Finance, along with the certification that those funds are available. So to allow
for a holdover tenancy would be in effect, creating an infinite liability for the County
without any oversight or imprimatur of the County certifying that funds are
available and subject to Council oversight.
Chair Furfaro: When we sign the original contract and got the
g g
approval of the Council, if a term on month-to-month was in that contract, to me
that is implied that it is approved to give you the negotiating period.
Mr. Kollar: I am not sure I understand the question.
Chair Furfaro: If I was a hotel manager, and had a sundry shop in
the building, right? And I signed a five-year lease with them to be in my store for a
period of five (5) years at 2% of gross, and $1,500.00. And I had a condition in there
that for a period of time after the expiration, we would stay on the last contract
terms month-to-month for a certain period of time until we negotiated a new
contract.
Mr. Kollar: You could conceivably put that in there in a
contract between private parties. I would recommend against including a term like
that in the contact involving the County. Correct.
Chair Furfaro: But your defense as a lawyer telling me there is an
implied liability going forward, quite frankly, that was the whole reason to do
something like that, so that you could pay the debt as you stayed there and not have
this accelerated rent charge.
Mr. Kollar: The best practice and I was not here in 1994 when
this original contract was put together, but the best practice is to keep the contracts
current.
Chair Furfaro: Good point. We are not current. We are accruing a
liability, which is accruing interest. That is a simple yes.
Mr. Kollar: That is true, conceivably.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you, Justin. The holdover is not a new
contract. It is an extension of the old contract.
Mr. Rapozo: The case law indicates that a provision of a
holdover tenancy is, in fact, a new tenancy, because the lease has expired. It is a
COUNCIL MEETING 68 OCTOBER 10, 2012
contract by its terms, and it is done. What the law does—what the residential
landlord-tenant code in Hawai`i implies a new tenancy that continues under the
terms of the old tenancy except on a month to month basis. That applies to
residential transactions and it also would not apply—by the terms of landlord-
tenant code, would not apply to contracts like this one of 15 years or more in
duration.
Mr. Rapozo: This contract is not a 15-year contract?
Mr. Kollar: In 1994, license was a 15-year license, extended
two times. And they were done as amendments not as new contracts.
Mr. Rapozo: In essence, what you are saying that we do not
have a contract right now?
Mr. Kollar: Correct.
Mr. Rapozo: So, they own the equipment?
Mr. Kollar: They do not own it. If we are going to get into
specific liabilities and specific legal positions of the County and liabilities, we should
probably discuss that in the context of an Executive Session.
Mr. Rapozo: When I spoke to Al, and I guess Al was not as
familiar with the case earlier this morning. Anyway, regardless, my point is that
why can we not pay what we owe currently? And allowing us to now be
what...three (3) months or so behind?
Mr. Kollar: Currently, and I cannot speak for Finance or
Purchasing or what their procedures are, but from my perspective; there is no
contract in place between the parties and we cannot pay in the absence of a
contract. We need a contract in writing signed by the Director of Finance in order
for it to be a valid binding contract on the County of Kaua`i under the Charter.
Mr. Rapozo: This would not qualify for a holdover?
Mr. Kollar: Not in my opinion, no.
Mr. Rapozo: Al, is that our opinion? I just got a different
answer from Al this morning, which is why I expected a different response today.
ALFRED B. CASTILLO, JR., County Attorney: Good afternoon
everyone, Al Castillo, County Attorney. I do not know about the different answer,
Councilmember Rapozo. I did tell you that I did not have any idea about this
contract because I am not privy to it. But I can understand your practical question
regarding why can we not pay it but Justin has answered that. I did tell you this
morning that I did not have any knowledge of the contract. I knew about the
agenda item. I knew that Justin would be here to answer the questions.
Chair Furfaro: Al, do not go away. I am getting back to this
portion that I summarized for you. Does County or does the County not have a
liability because we have lived beyond the potential tenancy of this contract? Does
or does not a liability exist?
yam ,
COUNCIL MEETING 69 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Mr. Castillo: It does.
Mr. Kollar: Potentially, yes.
Chair Furfaro: Potentially?
Mr. Castillo: And what...
Chair Furfaro: I just paid the bill. Do not give us more exposure
over here. What if the guy raises the rent?
Mr. Castillo: Okay.
Chair Furfaro: And we were not able to satisfy and negotiate a
new deal?
Mr. Castillo: Chair, will all due respect, the caution here is we
are in an area where it could end up in litigation. We do not want to make any
public statements, please.
Chair Furfaro: I can accept your answer. I am just telling you my
view as the business guy, who has managed many, many leases within a resort
confine. Okay? So there is some urgency for us to move on this today.
Mr. Castillo: Yes, and it is unfortunate that—I know Director
Daligdig started from January and was unsuccessful. We will review this and come
up with the best strategy and if you want an Executive Session on this, we can have
this.
Chair Furfaro: I just want something that gives us the least risk.
That is what I want. Some future contract that says you know, we have a period of
time to continue to negotiate on a contact that. That is all I want.
Mr. Bynum: I think I have heard that answer the least risk is to
approve this extension. The contract allows us to explore other options for long-
term. That is the answer I heard?
Mr. Kollar: Correct.
Ms. Nakamura: I have a question I have a question for the County
Attorneys, but I am wondering if it is best asked in Executive Session, given the
concerns raised. So I would like to request to go into Executive Session.
Chair Furfaro: Okay.
Mr. Rapozo: I am not comfortable approving a five-year lease
because we are going to be locked in for five (5) years. I heard you folks say, "I
would like to pass this to negotiate." The negotiations is over if we pass this today.
For five (5) years it is over. We can still negotiate, but we are locked into the five-
year contract. Is there any opportunity to get that down to a shorter term?
Mr. Kollar: Well, the Director has been the one conducting the
negotiations so that would be something that Teddy could answer. Maybe it is
legally possible.
COUNCIL MEETING 70 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Mr. Castillo: Council Chair, can I have a two-minute recess
because I understand the practical nature of the questions that are being asked. I
have not spoken to Justin or the Department yet, but we may have some answers
for you after a short break, please.
Chair Furfaro: We will take a 10-minute recess right now.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 3:01 p.m.
The meeting reconvened at 3:12 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: I think what I am going to ask for is a two-week
deferral on this. And with the deferral, I am going to also post an Executive
Session. So be prepared for some of the questions that we have surfaced now.
Obviously, some of it deals with the rents in arrear, and some of it also deals with
the negotiation forward. But I am going to post both, and we will see if it is
necessary in two (2) weeks. I would like to move to defer this for two (2) weeks,
date-specific, October 24. Members, can I get your support on that?
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Mr. Chang moved to defer C 2012-385, seconded by Mr. Rapozo, and
unanimously carried.
C 2012-403 Communication (09/26/2012) from the Director of Parks &
Recreation, recommending Council approval to make adjustments to the Lydgate-
Kapa'a Shared-Use Path Kapa`a Sands Purchase Agreement, which was approved
at the July 28, 2010 Council Meeting, which will result in the anticipated savings of
approximately $17,000.00 for the facility relocation services required in the
Purchase Agreement.
• Warranty Deed (TMK (4) 4-3-002:02)
Chair Furfaro: Could I ask the County Attorney to come up for this
one because I did get a request from Lenny. He was on the mainland and I would
like to hear from you if have any particular discussion with us on this
recommendation.
Ms. Nakamura moved to approve C 2012-403, seconded by Mr. Chang.
Chair Furfaro: Since this is a legal document, C 2012-403, if there
are any questions, I wanted you to be there. If not, there is a motion to approve
this. Okay. Thank you, Al. You are excused.
Mr. Castillo: Thank you.
The motion to approve C 2012-403 was then put, and unanimously carried.
CLAIMS:
C 2012-404 Communication (09/17/2012) from the Deputy County Clerk,
transmitting a claim filed against the County of Kaua`i by Allstate Insurance
Company as subrogee Larry Morris, for damage to his vehicle, pursuant to
COUNCIL MEETING 71 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Section 23.06 Charter of the County of Kaua`i: Mr. Kuali`i moved to refer
C 2012-404 to the County Attorney's Office for disposition and/or report back to the
Council, seconded by Mr. Chang, and unanimously carried.
C 2012-405 Communication (09/17/2012) from the Deputy County Clerk,
transmitting a claim filed against the County of Kaua`i by Hawai`i Telecom, for
damage to their facility, pursuant to Section 23.06, Charter of the County of Kaua`i:
Mr. Kuali`i moved to refer C 2012-405 to the County Attorney's Office for disposition
and/or report back to the Council, seconded by Mr. Chang, and unanimously
carried.
COMMITTEE REPORTS:
PLANNING COMMITTEE:
A report (CR-PL 2012-08 on PL 2012-04) submitted by the Planning
Committee, recommending that the following by received for the record:
PL 2012-04 Communication (09/05/2012) from Committee
Chair Nakamura, requesting the presence of the Open Space Commission
Chair or the Chair's designee to provide a briefing on the Hoban property and
other priority projects,"
Mr. Kuali`i moved for approval CR-PL 2012-08, seconded by Mr. Rapozo, and
unanimously carried.
HOUSING/TRANSPORTATION/ENERGY CONSERVATION & EFFICIENCY
COMMITTEE REPORT:
A report (HTE 2012-11) submitted by the Housing/Transportation/Energy
Conservation & Efficiency Committee, recommending that the following by received
for the record:
Bill No. 2445 AN ORDINANCE AMENDING ORDINANCE NO.
B-2012-736, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO THE OPERATING BUDGET OF THE
COUNTY OF KAUAI, STATE OF HAWAII, FOR THE FISCAL YEAR JULY 1,
2012 THROUGH JUNE 30, 2013, BY REVISING THE SURPLUS AND
APPROPRIATIONS ESTIMATED IN THE GENERAL FUND ($310,000.00 —
Transportation Agency, Vehicles Automobiles),"
Ms. Yukimura moved for approval CR-HTE 2012-11, seconded by Mr. Kuali`i, and
unanimously carried.
FINANCE/PARKS & RECREATION/PUBLIC WORKS PROGRAMS COMMITTEE
REPORT:
A report (FFP 2012-12) submitted by the Finance/Parks & Recreation/Public
Works Programs Committee, recommending that the following by received for the
record:
Bill No. 2443 A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING SECTION
6-5.1 OF THE KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO
PAYMENT TO COUNTY BY CHECK OR NEGOTIABLE INSTRUMENT,
SUBSEQUENTLY DISHONORED (Cost Control Commission Recommendation),"
COUNCIL MEETING 72 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Mr. Rapozo moved for approval CR-FPP 2012-12, seconded by Mr. Bynum, and
unanimously carried.
COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE COMMITTEE REPORT:
A report submitted by the (COW 2012-23) submitted by the Committee Of
The Whole Committee, recommending that the following be received for the record:
Bill No. 2449 AN ORDINANCE AMENDING ORDINANCE NO.
B-2012-737, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO THE CAPITAL BUDGET OF THE
COUNTY OF KAUAI , STATE OF HAWAII, FOR THE FISCAL YEAR JULY 1,
2012 THROUGH JUNE 30, 2013, BY ADDING A NEW BUDGET PROVISO AND
AMENDING AN EXISTING BUDGET PROVISO IN THE CAPITAL BUDGET
RELATING TO PROJECTS FUNDED WITH COMMUNITY FACILITIES
DISTRICT BONDS,"
Mr. Rapozo moved for the approval of report, seconded by Mr. Kuali`i, and
unanimously carried.
RESOLUTIONS:
Resolution No. 2012-53, RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING A NO-PARKING
AT ANY TIME-FIRE LANE AND A TOW AWAY ZONE AT THE COUNTY OF
KAUAI'S PI'IKOI AND KAPULE BUILDINGS, LIHU`E CIVIC CENTER, LIHU`E
DISTRICT, COUNTY OF KAUAI
Mr. Kuali`i moved to adopt Resolution No. 2012-53, seconded by Mr. Bynum, and
carried by the following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Bynum, Chang, Kuali`i, Nakamura, Rapozo, TOTAL-7,
Yukimura, Furfaro
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL-0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL-0.
BILLS FOR FIRST READING:
Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2451) —A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE
REGARDING AMENDING ZONING CONDITIONS IN ORDINANCE NO. PM-175-
88, RELATING TO ZONING DESIGNATION IN PRINCEVILLE, KAUAI.
(Princeville SC Development, LLC, Applicant): Mr. Kuali`i moved for passage for
Proposed Draft Bill No. 2451 on first reading, that it be ordered to print, that a
public hearing thereon be scheduled for November 14, 2012, and that it thereafter
be referred to the Planning Committee, seconded by Ms. Yukimura.
Chair Furfaro: We have a motion and second, but I do want to give
Councilmember Nakamura the floor.
Ms. Nakamura: Yes, I will be recusing myself from this matter
since my husband is involved in legal representation for the applicant.
Ms. Nakamura was noted recused from this item.
Chair Furfaro: Do not go far, Nadine.
COUNCIL MEETING 73 OCTOBER 10, 2012
The motion for passage of Proposed Draft Bill No. 2451 was then put, and carried by
the following vote:
FOR PASSAGE: Bynum, Chang, Kuali`i, Nakamura, Rapozo, TOTAL-6,
Yukimura, Furfaro
AGAINST PASSAGE: None TOTAL-0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL-0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: Nakamura TOTAL-1.
Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2452) — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE REGARDING
ARTICLE 1, CHAPTER 19 OF THE KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED,
RELATING TO PARKS AND RECREATION PROHIBITING FISHING AT LYDGATE
BEACH PARK POND
Mr. Watanabe: This is the one that we changed the title, Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Yes.
Mr. Watanabe: Let me get the correct title-"An ordinance adding a
new section to Article 1, Chapter 19 of the Kaua`i County Code 1987, as amended
relating to Parks and Recreation prohibiting fishing at Lydgate Beach Park Pond."
Ms. Yukimura moved for passage of Proposed Draft Bill No. 2452 on first
reading, that it be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be
scheduled for November 14, 2012, and that it thereafter be referred to the
Finance/Parks & Recreation/Public Works Programs Committee, seconded by
Mr. Bynum.
Chair Furfaro: Are there any commentary? I do want to a.k.a.,
Lydgate Pond is also known as Morgan's Pond. Thank you.
The motion for passage of Proposed Draft Bill No. 2452 was then put, and carried in
the following vote:
FOR PASSAGE: Bynum, Chang, Kuali`i, Nakamura, Rapozo, TOTAL-7,
Yukimura, Furfaro
AGAINST PASSAGE: None TOTAL-0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL-0.
Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2453) —A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
CHAPTER 6, ARTICLE 14, KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED
RELATING TO THE PUBLIC ACCESS, OPEN SPACE, AND NATURAL
RESOURCES PRESERVATION FUND
Ms. Yukimura moved for passage of Proposed Draft Bill No. 2453 on first
reading, that it be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be
scheduled for November 14, 2012, and that it thereafter be referred to the
Planning Committee, seconded by Mr. Chang.
Chair Furfaro: This is a bill that talks about increasing the Public
Access Open Space Natural Resources Preservation Fund from 0.5% of gross
property taxes to 1.5% and it is going to be scheduled on the 14th.
COUNCIL MEETING 74 OCTOBER 10, 2012
Ms. Yukimura: I just wanted to say that we will be referring—we
will be sending this bill to Finance and the County Attorney for review, so that by
the time it gets back in committee, we will have their input.
The motion for passage of Proposed Draft Bill No. 2453 was then put, and carried by
the following vote:
FOR PASSAGE: Bynum, Chang, Kuali`i, Nakamura, Rapozo, TOTAL-7,
Yukimura, Furfaro
AGAINST PASSAGE: None TOTAL-0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL-0.
BILLS FOR SECOND READING:
Bill No. 2443 - A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING SECTION 6-5.1
OF THE KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO
PAYMENT TO COUNTY BY CHECK OR NEGOTIABLE INSTRUMENT,
SUBSEQUENTLY DISHONORED (Cost Control Commission Recommendation):
Ms. Yukimura moved to adopt Bill No. 2443 on second and final reading, and that it
be transmitted to the Mayor for his approval, seconded by Mr. Rapozo.
Chair Furfaro: Any discussion, this bill is for second reading?
Members of the audience? No? Vice Chair Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: Just a mahalo to the Cost Control Commission for
raising this long overdue issue.
Chair Furfaro: If not, let us do a roll call, please.
The motion to adopt Bill No. 2443 on second and final reading was then put, and
carried by the following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Bynum, Chang, Kuali`i, Nakamura, Rapozo, TOTAL-7,
Yukimura, Furfaro
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL-0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL-0.
Bill No. 2445 - AN ORDINANCE AMENDING ORDINANCE
NO. B-2012-736, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO THE OPERATING BUDGET OF
THE COUNTY OF KAUAI, STATE OF HAWAII, FOR THE FISCAL YEAR
JULY 1, 2012 THROUGH JUNE 30, 2013, BY REVISING THE SURPLUS AND
APPROPRIATIONS ESTIMATED IN THE GENERAL FUND ($310,000.00 –
Transportation Agency, Vehicles Automobiles): Ms. Yukimura moved to adopt Bill
No. 2445 on second and final reading and that it be transmitted to the Mayor for his
approval, seconded by Mr. Chang.
The motion to adopt Bill No. 2445 on second and final reading was then put, and
carried by the following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Bynum, Chang, Kuali`i, Nakamura, Rapozo, TOTAL-7,
Yukimura, Furfaro
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL-0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL-0.
Bill No. 2449 - AN ORDINANCE AMENDING ORDINANCE
NO. B-2012-737, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO THE CAPITAL BUDGET OF
THE COUNTY OF KAUAI , STATE OF HAWAII, FOR THE FISCAL YEAR
JULY 1, 2012 THROUGH JUNE 30, 2013, BY ADDING A NEW BUDGET
COUNCIL MEETING 75 OCTOBER 10, 2012
PROVISO AND AMENDING AN EXISTING BUDGET PROVISO IN THE
CAPITAL BUDGET RELATING TO PROJECTS FUNDED WITH COMMUNITY
FACILITIES DISTRICT BONDS: Ms. Yukimura moved to adopt Bill No. 2449 on
second and final reading, and that it be transmitted to the Mayor for his approval,
seconded by Mr. Chang.
The motion to adopt Bill No. 2449 on second and final reading was then put, and
carried by the following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Bynum, Chang, Kuali`i, Nakamura, Rapozo,
Yukimura, Furfaro TOTAL-7,
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL-0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL-0.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
EXECUTIVE SESSION:
ES-571 Pursuant to HRS section 92-4, 92-5(a)(4), and Kaua`i County Charter
section 3.07(e), the Office of the County Attorney, on behalf of the Council, requests
an executive session to allow the Council to consult with the County Attorney
regarding how the Kaua`i Police Department conducts its operations involving
surveillance helicopters, and related matters. This briefing and consultation
involves consideration of the powers, duties, privileges, immunities, and/or
liabilities of the Council and the County as they relate to this agenda item.
Chair Furfaro: Now I would like to—we have one potential—yes,
we have one Executive Session scheduled today. So I may I call the County
Attorney up. This was actually was my particular piece regarding the Police
Department and the helicopter usage. But I think we are asking for a deferral, if I
could so note to have you come back in two (2) weeks. We will defer this item for
that period of time. Thank you, Al.
Mr. Castillo: Yes, so I do not have to read it then, thank you.
Mr. Rapozo moved to defer ES-571 for two (2) weeks, seconded by
Ms. Yukimura, and unanimously carried.
ADJOURNMENT:
There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 3:23 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
RICKY WATANABE
County Clerk
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