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HomeMy WebLinkAbout04-07-2010-Doc15906 • • MINUTES PARKS/TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE April 7, 2010 A meeting of the Parks/Transportation Committee of the Council of the County of Kaua`i, State of Hawai`i, was called to order by Councilmember Lani T. Kawahara, Chair, at 3371-A Wilcox Road, Lihu`e, Kaua`i, on Wednesday, April 7, 2*010 at 9:20 a.m., after which the following members answered the call of the roll: Honorable Bill "Kaipo" Asing Honorable Tim Bynum Honorable Dickie Chang Honorable Jay Furfaro Honorable Daryl Kaneshiro . Honorable Lani Kawahara Honorable Derek Kawakami LANI T. KAWAHARA (Committee Chair): Good morning the Parks and Transportation Committee is now in order. Let the record show that all members are present. If I could get the clerk to read the bill. The Committee proceeded on its agenda item as follows: Bill No. 2348 A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING CHAPTER 19, AR,TICLE 3, SECTION 19-3.1 AND SECTION 19-3.3 OF THE KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO PLAYING FEES AND REGULATION OF PLAY AT THE WAILUA GOLF COURSE. [This item was deferred.] Ms. Kawahara: Thank you Darrellyne. Just for the record, the intent today that I'm going to be doing. I'm going to be deferring this bill because there are council members and some members of the public that have some remaining questions that need to be addressed that just recently came up. We will be taking testimony today to enter into the record, but again I will be asking my committee to defer this item while we gather some more information about some of the questions that have come up recently, and also before I have the public come up to testify I would like to remind them to please speak to the bill and not about peopl,e or personalities and also to take this time to turn your cell phones off or put them on vibrate thank you. With that I'm suspending the rules and do we have any registered speakers. We have no registered speakers but I have somebody in the public I think that would like to come up. There being no objections, the rules were suspended. Ms. Yamamoto: Good morning Council my name is SUSAN YAMAMOTO and I was at the last meeting and my question is you mentioned that the liQense had some loopholes I guess and my question is if it does and it's not a real 'proof of residency, why are you using that as proof of residency for the golf . . • • course. It doesn't make sense that you use something that is not really a means of showing residency. And so that is all I had to bring up. Ms. Kawahara: Thank you, and that's specifically what we are trying to determine, how and if we can use any other type of ID. or if that's a standard and legal type of ID. We are also discussing the obvious use or abuse of that system so a lot of those questions are the ones that are coming up that we need to address with the attorney. Ms. Yamamoto: I know another person that was at the meeting mentioned that if you did use the license that you put instead of or, and you put and so that it's not just a license but a means of identifying residency. The reason why is they just raised the rate for the fees to generate more revenue and so I think that by adding the license as the only means of, or one of the means of identifying yourself as a resident, that doesn't make much sense. 'Ms. Kawahara: Thank you, we will be looking at the "and" and the "or", also. Ms. Yamamoto: Okay, I appreciate it. Ms Kawahara: Because that's been brought up several times too, so thank you for your testimony and for bringing up those points. Ms. Yamamoto: Okay thank you very much. _ Ms. Kawahara: Did you have a question councilmember? DICKIE CHANG: Thank you, thank you Susan. Just to let you knov. what we are working on right now, a lot of the verbiage will be pertinent to like. the senior rate or the super senior rate. It will be like a super Kaua`i resident or a super senior Kaua`i rate. And the difference of course between an "or" and a"and" we -are aware of most of us of how the license gets registered and it's very interesting because the people at the Department of Motor Vehicle and especially those that work at Wailua. The interesting thing about it is some that knows how to get to the system will get there to say they lost their license and interestingly through conversation they said by the way how long is this going to take I got a tee time in two hours at_ Wailua. So it's planned perfectly and when you get your license you have the issue date, so it's pretty much hot off the press. Ms. Yamamoto: Right. Mr. Chang: So where the "and" comes in we are working on form number N-11, N-13 for example tax returris. Another thing that's very inter,esting is that we can also find out if you voted in the primary or the general election. And at the Wailua golf course there's a CD, I'm not sure if you know this but you can give someone your name and oh did you register or did you vote in the primary election. Yes I did. Can I get your name and in 5 seconds they, can tell you whether you, so that's going to be a part of what Councilmember Kawahara was saying is we are trying to work on a lot of the legalities. From what I know you can get a license or what I heard if I'm not mistaken you can get a license for Kaua`i but you happen to have a Mainland address or a Honolulu address on that so those are the things that we are trying to get clarification on. . • . • • ' Ms. Yamamoto: Okay, I am glad to hear that you will be thinking about it more. I appreciate that. Mr. Chang: In fairness. Ms Yamamoto: Yes. ' Mr. Chang: Yes, thank you. . Ms Yamamoto: Thank you. Ms Kawahara: Thank you, thank you very much. Do I have anyone else? Oh Mr. Mickens. Glenn Mickens: Thank you Lani. It just appears, Lani it just appears that we have got a real dilemma hear. This is supposedly an enterprise fund but I don't, how are you? You are never going to find it for me. You are never going to be able to find the funds to ever make it not a you know we are putting what, a half a million dollars a year into this thing. You are never going to be able to raise your rates out there enough to be able to do that. So it seems the only solution, you are going to have is go ahead and just make it free for the people that play here on the Island. The visitors are going to have to pay a fee which will reimburse some of it but I just don't see, I wasn't, I'm not a golfer and I wasn't here when that place did pay for itself so I don't know what's happened between that time and now to make this huge gap between what the tax payers are putting into the golf course. Now, but Jay what do you people maybe you can tell me what it is but I-don't know if that is a solution because I don't see what the solution is going to be to having tliis go on like this or are you going to try and get more and more money and the people just you know they are not going to be able to pay that kind of money. So the golf course will go farther and farther down because you are not going to have the participants to do it but I don't know. Do you have an answer Lani? Ms. Kawahara: What was the question? How we are going to, that was quite long I'm sorry. There must have been a question in there. Mr. Mickens: Yeah well, I guess maybe it was for Kaipo or Dickie, you're a golfer Dickie! And I just wondered. How did this. How did this golf course pay for itself in the past that we are so far into debt at this stage of the ganie? Ms. Kawahara: So it's not part of the bill but if anybody wants to answer authoritatively yes I will let that happen. Go ahead Mr. Furfaro. JAY FURFAR,O: Answer authoritatively. Ms. Kawahara: Yes. Mr. Furfaro: Oh, okay well I think it's a basic accounting principal first of all and I have some other comments here but certainly one of the questions and I'm glad to see the parks department here is the capital investment that deals with the sprinkler system. Should or should not be clearly understood • • that it is not a operating expense to pay for the sprinkler system and therefore it should have been simply a capital expense that enhance the value of the golf course as an asset. That question is yet to be answered. I mean it is a very interesting accountingprincipal to probe. Mr. Mickens: So that's what you are saying basically bury this. thing. I remember when they had to put fire engines out there to water the...... Mr. Furfaro: No Glenn, I didn't say bury this thing or anything. I said it's a basic accounting question that we need to revisit. How are we handling the expense of the asset improvements to the golf course? Are we expensing it in over a period of time in the operation? Well that would certainly have added cost to the monthly profit and loss statement for an enterprise fund, or did we just invest the money and then add it to the value of the asset. We have to get there. I certainly don't agree with you that people should just play for free. Because the grass has to be cut, the water department still charges us for the consumption of water. The pumps require electricity, but I certainly think that Susan's comment of having and I believe it was Susan our first speaker. I believe that having additional forms of identifying true Kama'aina's is important for the revenue cycle of the golf course. I think she brings up an excellent point, because if you deeply discount what your. potential revenue is you are going to have less opportunity to cover the operating expenses. Now, will it ever be an enterprise fund that breaks even. I really don't think so. I think it's just a fact that we have to accept, but the question is, between the potential revenue that the parks department forecast and how we handle future improvements to the property and how we anticipate we are going to improve IT communications at the golf course that deal with letting people use credit cards so we can enhance revenue and so forth is still yet to be determined in Councilwoman Kawahara's committee. I would hope that IT would help us understand how we can improve revenues by having some. captured charges. So, I hope I answered those accounting summaries and some of the real pieces that we have to identify. Mr. Mickens: So that I understand. Mr. Furfaro: Capturing revenue. Making sure that we live up to true revenue potential for bona fide residents and how we handle future improvements that don't go to the operating line. Ms. Kawahara: Thank you, thank you Councilmember Furfaro. Did you have any other questions specifically about the bill Glenn? Mr. Mickens: No, No. Ms. Kawahara: No, okay. Mr. Mickens: Thank you. Ms. Kawahara: Do you have any about the bill specifically? Mr. Mickens: No. Just so I'm clarified from what Jay has explained to me so I understand it. In the accounting principles that you are talking about, if those accounting principles hadn't been done properly or in a different direction. Then you are saying that we probably wouldn't have buried our self this deeply if in the irrigation system part of it had it been a capital improvement ,.- ~ • projeet instead of adding it to the operating cost of the golf course it wouldn't have... Mr. Furfaro: I'm saying it could have been handled either way. Mr. Mickens: Right, right. Mr. Furfaro: How we handle it needs to be revisited. I want to make sure I take those words out of your mouth that said "I commented that was perhaps handled poorly or wrong." Mr. Mickens: Right. Jay Furfaro: It was not. Think of it this way Glenn. If you put gutters on your house, you improve the value of your house. Your return on that asset,is what you sell it, right? . Mr. Mickens: Right. , Mr. Furfaro: The same is my thinking of the golf course irrigation system. When we improved it, it added value to the entire golf course. Mr. Mickens: So we had not improved it over the years and it had deteriorated to the point that we had to put this huge amount of money into the irrigation system. Ms. Kawahara: Investment. Mr. Mickens: Is that right? Mr. Furfaro: It's an investment. Ms. Kawahara: Investment. Mr. Furfaro: It's an investment, that's exactly what it is, an investment Glenn. Mr. Mickens: Thank you Jay, thank you Lani. Ms. Kawahara: Thank you very much. Do I have anybody? Is there anybody else in the public that would like to speak on this bill, give testimony? Seeing none, I do see that our parks and rec director and deputy director have'.arrived. Thank you for making the trip down the hill. If you could come up because I think there might be some council members that have questions. LENNY RAPOZO: For the record, Director of Parks & Recreation Lenny Rapozo. KYLAN DELACRUZ: Deputy Director for Parks & Recreation. Ms. Kawahara: Again thank you for making it here this morning. I thought that we might have comments or questions for the department on the bill so far. And I'm not sure. Nobody has any questions. Sorry so nobody has any questions right now but my intent as I said was to defer it because we are ~ • checking on as we discussed earlier, residency requirements and exactly what can be required as a legal document as a resident to provide residency. So, Councilmember Chang has one, he has a question. Mr. Chang: Thank you good morning. Are we any where clos'er to putting in a credit card swipe machine at the starter shack? Mr. Rapozo: No not yet, we are still working with the IT and the whole system. Mr. Chang: So there are plans? Mr. Rapozo: Yes. Mr. Chang: Because those that I ask or talk to said it was; I hope they are correct. That it was pretty minor it was easy to get installed? Like really quickly to get done. Mr. Rapozo: They should call me. Mr. Chang: Okay, well and that's why I'm asking because that's what was reported back and it's for a credit card. Mr. Rapozo: We recognize the value of having such a service because of the way business is conducted in terms for locals as well as nonresidents and residents I'm sorry. So yeah we recognize there is a need for that and we do want to provide that service. Mr. Chang: Okay. And I guess just another question? My understanding because we don't make mention of any military rate, but if you are an active military personnel in the State of Hawai`I, you get the resident rate correbt? Mr. Rapozo: That is correct. Mr. Chang: Okay, would we consider doing a military rate,* a special rate for active or veteran members? Mr. Rapozo: We haven't, we haven't explored that option. Mr. Chang: Okay, okay. Mr. Rapozo: We never thought about it. Mr. Chang: Thank you. Ms. Kawahara: Thank you. Councilmember Bynum. TIM BYNUM: Thanks for being here this morning. One of the questions I'm asking is still outstanding is whether we can provide parks a fee range and let you determine what the fee should be based on market conditions. I think part of what may have happened here was you know in the period where we looked at changing the rates the economy was in a different state than when it " ~ • actually got implemented. Then once it's implemented because of the way the ordinance is structured in the government you have to come back to us and then we got to, do our diligence and defer and so you know the public is saying hey when are we going to right this. But we have to go through these processes so I hadn't cliscussed this with you before but we might as well do it now. One other question that I'm saying is, can we not be so proscriptive in the ordinance about twilight tinies and even rates? Could we authorize parks and arrange to set the rates? so wheri the market conditions change you can make that move based on the feedback that you are getting from the golf course personnel and is that if we are allowed to do that legally, is that something that you would support? Mr. Rapozo: Sure. :a Mr. Bynum: Because I think some criticism has come to parks unjustly and that you don't have that flexibility now to respond to the daily kind bf changes and unfortunately government stuff takes time. Mr. Rapozo: Yeah but my response to them would always be as part of doing business in government and there are checks and balances in government and that's why we operate the way we operate. Mr. Bynum: So just FYI, I'm exploring the possibility whether we can give appropriately parks more flexibility to respond to changing market conditions. Mr. Rapozo: Good. Mr. Bynum: Okay. Ms. Kawahara: Anything else? No, I did have a question and thank you for the information that you submitted. We are doing this bill because we are.losing number of play, number of play right? But the revenues themselves with the increase has been up. Mr. Rapozo: Correct. Ms. Kawahara: For the most part yeah. Mr. Rapozo: Correct. Ms. Kawahara: So the only issue that this bill is trying to well there is several issues but the main issue is the loss of actual body play, even though our revenue is up. Mr. Rapozo: Well it's not so much the actual bodies yeah, that's part of it. A lot of and we weren't able to bring some other comments that is in a particular spreadsheet we couldn't print it out and whatever that's another IT issue. But um people will probably play once because of the new price increase we are talking nonresidents yeah, and maybe we won't get that return business anymore that we enjoyed in the past because a lot of people are coming to play and finding out the rates are high. A lot of people are coming to play finding the rates are high and they won't play. But what's affecting more so is our concessioners, so it's -not so much not play but really our concessioners, i.e., the pro shop, the restaurant. And you know their rent they are not being able to pay the rent and I always use the analogy. You go to Disneyland, you've been to Disneyland, you going buy,one Disneyland shirt, logo or whatever, because you're there. Our nonresidents are coming, they're not coming, I'm sorry and they are not going to the pro shop, won't •sell this shirts, will not be able to sell or rent his clubs, or rent a shoes, or balls, or whatever. So he is not getting the foot traffic so his business is hurting. The saine thing with the restaurant, they are not getting enough foot traffic. If these concessions close then to make up that rent, the revenue of the rent I don't think our resident people would want to make up that shortfall number one. But I think you know as part of being the owners of the golf course I think we should try and help' our concessionaires succeed and it's very obvious that there is a disproportionate in terms of nonresident fees that they are paying and the comments that we are seeing. That's why we are revisiting the proposed changes in the golf fees. Ms. Kawahara: Okay great. And just on the positive side though I wanted to share with you and I'm sure you noticed there is more local play going on more frequent and yeah more frequent local play. I also have heard that the experience because of the bill that was enacted has become better because of their people that are actually playing and not you know soon to be golfers learning how to play in front of everybody else. So I'm glad to see that, that part of the bill that we put in place was very useful and helpful to our residents. Would you agree with that? Have you found that? Mr. Rapozo: Yes, there are. good things going on at the golf course. The workers do a very good job and the PGA recently came down and revisited our course and it got even a higher rating, meaning it's a tougher course to play.now and that's all positive stuff and unfortunately we hear too much of the negative and our workers hear or see too much of the negative. I remind them all the time that I visit with them that I am grateful for the efforts that they do, it's a fabulous facility and I am not a golfer. I can see when the grass is nice and green and things and you know climate changes, weather changes, you know there is ups and downs but I think our staff handles it very, very well and I think they provide a very good product. Ms. Kawahara: Yes, yes definitely the course is beautiful. I went and visited one weekend, the greens are gorgeous the putting green is beautiful and the driving range has been fixed up pretty, really well. The people all those employees were really great. When I was playing on the course it didn't look as good as it looks now so I would like to thank you for all the work that they do. Did any council members have any other, yes comments? ' JAY FURFAR,O: Thank you. Ms. Kawahara: Council member Furfaro. Mr. Furfaro: And I would also like to agree with you that the.caurse is looking exceptional and maybe some of that is tied to having a decent sprii-lkler system as the course just got upgraded by its PGA rating. Obviously it got upgxaded in its dollar value too so lot of positive things happening at the golf course. I just want to be able to read the summary real quick and make sure I understand it. We are basically saying that within the category for the year, year to date within the category of seniors, super seniors and so forth our rounds are down one thousand eighty six rounds or about seven percent compared to I presume your ' , • • budget. And at the same time the revenue is up about eighteen thousand dollars. Am I reading this correct? Mr. Rapozo: I'm sorry. What page are you on? Mr. Furfaro: I'm on the front page. Mr. Rapozo: Correct. Mr. Furfaro: Do I have that right? . Mr. Rapozo: That's right. Mr. Furfaro: We have, we are down seven percent in rounds but we are up eighteen thousand in revenue. And it is compared to budget Kylan? Or as compared to previous years? What are we comparing it too? Mr. Rapozo: The 09. Mr. Furfaro: Okay so it's compared to the previous year okay. And then in the area under residents this is local Kama'aina residents. We are actually up four percent in the category of rounds and we are up in dollars as well. Mr. Rapozo: Correct. Mr. Furfaro: Correct, okay. Same is true in the junior category? We are up about two hundred seventy, two hundred and seventy nine rounds, is that correct? : Mr. Rapozo: Correct. Mr. Furfaro: And then the biggest hit we have here, we ar.e down sixty two percent in dollars. And we are down five thousand rounds for nonresidents, nonseniors and nonjuniors. Mr. Rapozo: We are up in revenue but we are down in rounds. • Mr. Furfaro: Understood, I'm talking about rounds. . Mr. Rapozo: Yes, yes. Mr. Furfaro: But we are holding our own in revenue? Mr. Rapozo: Correct. Mr. Furfaro: Now, obviously that seems to be a reasonable, a reasonable improvement in revenue based on the fact that we can't take rounds to the bank. We take dollars to the bank, right? KYLEN DELACRUZ: That is correct Councilmember Furfaro but ah. • • • • Mr. Furfaro: So I think that's a very important piece. Mr. Delacruz: The concern is the revenues being potentially lost by the concessions. Mr. Furfaro: I'm getting there, don't get ahead of myself and I want to make sure I understand this report you are giving us. So overall, sixty eight thousand one hundred seventy one rounds previous year, would you add all the pluses and you take away the mainland rounds we are short four thousand eighty five rounds combined? But we are up almost twenty one percent in revenue? Mr. Delacruz: That is correct. :'-Mr. Furfaro: Am I reading it correctly? Okay so this is an excelient report I just want to make sure I got the interpretations correct. Now, when.it comes to our concessionaires they pay us a fee? They pay us? Mr. Delacruz: That is correct. That's correct. ' Mr: Furfaro: So it behooves us to really do as much as we can to encourage the sale of food, beverage amenities but yet we have no IT facilities there- that allows for an ATM Machine and so forth. Why would the County not put in an ATM Machine at least for cash? Because we would get a fee from that too, we would get a service fee for that. Why is IT not exploring that possibility of the county entering into because we are going to be down in rounds but the idea is to incr.ease sales! Why, is there something that prevents us from exploring that? : Mr. Rapozo: The ATM machines we have never explored so that is a good point to do. We were just focusing on the credit card. Mr. Furfaro: But if they can get credit card we don't want them to drive to Hanama'ulu to the seven eleven to get cash. , Mr. Rapozo: Correct. ' Mr. Furfaro: So can I assume and maybe chairwomen you would perhaps send over a communication to IT to explore that possibility. Ms. Kawahara: Certainly. Mr. F.urfaro: For us to get into a ATM machine for that, and then for our other concessioners, what prevents him from capturing cash through you know an arrangement with a credit card company as well, what prevents him? . Mr. Rapozo: I'm not familiar with anything that prevents him. from doing something like that. Mr. Furfaro: Could we also check with the IT department if there is any way we could encourage that? Mr. Rapozo: That's all I have thank you. • Ms. Kawahara: Okay, Thank you. I saw you raise do you • • have a question councilman. DEREK KAWAKAMI: I think as far as addressing the ATM if my memory serves me correctly. One of the challenge was the banks were not satisfied with the foot traffic going through the pro shop and one of the options that we had thrown out on the table was do go and deal with somebody that sub contracts it out on their own which came back that that would be also pretty costly, but in this tough economic times maybe there is room for negotiation for that kind of services being that a having some income for this individual contract is better than no inco~ae. Because in that case the individual contractor would be able to capture the sur.c'harge fee and make some money off of that so maybe we need to. revisit that but if my memory serves me correctly the challenge was that the banks were not satisfied with the amount of foot traffic going through the pro shop. But if we talking about now the county controlling their own destiny and purchasing our own AT1VI. for the machine that to me is a whole different issue at hand and we have to start doing some cost analysis and start generating some projections on what that wouId mean to the County at the end of the day when we talk about net income. : Ms. Kawahara: Thank you for that. Yes councilmember. Mr. Furfaro: And I would just like to expand on Councilmember Kawakami's comments, you know as Mr. Knutzen has expressed to us you know the county continues to explore ways where citizens can you know electxonically settle everything from drivers license fees to even paying your property tax. Seems to me that one of the things from our side that we can convince the bank to do is the fact of the matter is. I think as a hundred fifty six million dollar corporation in the County of Kaua`i, we are a pretty important customer. And they;should be a little sensitive to our needs, to help our concessionaire and also looking at this possibility of some small income to the county for the service charge, and .I think Mr. Kawakami brings up some excellent points that are worth revisiting. Thank you, Mr. Kawakami. Mr. Kawakami: And just one comment off of that though. I also work for a corporation that is pretty big and you know the banks can be stubborn too and we tried to get an ATM in one of our stores and they look at everything man, so we can try. Mr. Furfaro: So they little (pake'Ke`e) maybe stingy) yeah so. " Ms. Kawahara: Thank you for those insights, I would never imagine yeah, okay. Did anybody have any other oh, Council chair. Bill "KAIPO" ASING: Yes, I'm not a committee member but Lenny your remarks regarding concerns for the concessionaires, isn't there some flexibility in the contract to concessionaires whereby there is a possibility of reductions in their cost, rental wise, etc? I thought that the contract allowed for certain conditions where we could be flexible and make adjustments? Am I, am I wrong? Mr. Rapozo: That is correct in certain in the language of certain of the contracts for certain conditions. Yes we can, for instance the cart concessionaires. . Mr. Asing: Yes are we in fact using that to assist them? • • • ~ Mr.,Rapozo: The criteria doesn't fit what we are able to do for them in the current contracts. Mr. Asing: So the flexibility area is not enough so to speak. Am I correct? . " Mr. Rapozo: Correct, correct. :.Mr. Asing: Wow it must be real bad then. Mr. Rapozo: Yes. Mr. Asing: Either that or the flexibility area in the contract is not wide enough so to speak. . Mr. Rapozo: Correct, yes. And you know just so you all know'the restaurant and the pro shop contract is ending this fall and we will be redoing that contract so maybe that's the perfect time to look into what you are just meqtioning right now. Mr: Asing: Okay, Thank you. Ms. Kawahara: Since we are talking about concessionaires because this is specifically what the bill is trying to address. Could you tell me a liitle"bit about the driving range and the ball contract? And what happened? That it used~.to be with the pro shop and now it's with the county, I haven't had a chance to talk with you about that and now might be a good time. Mr. Rapozo: The historical from what I understand is that it used to be with the pro shop and in the current contract it was taken out of that from the pro shop and the county assumed that, that function and that role. Ms. Kawahara: Okay, okay so was that revenue that was coming in to the concessionaire and the county when they did it? Do they get a percentage when they run it? Mr. Rapozo: . I don't know, I don't know, I don't know what the, specifics was. • Mr. Delacruz: Yeah there was a lease agreement and at one poirit in time the concessionaire could was not able to make payments so then as far as the driving range was concerned it was then taken over by the county. Since then it stayed with the county. Ms. Kawahara: Okay. Okay and when we took it over, who was gathering the balls from the driving range? Did it become a county employee? ' Mr. Delacruz: We have part time employees picking up the balls from the driving range. Mr. Rapozo: It's a county function. Ms. Kawahara: Okay, but when they had it, the private guys , • • • had it did they pay their own people to do it? Mr. Delacruz: That is correct. Ms. Kawahara: That's correct, okay I might follow up with a little few more questions later in writing. Thank you for that. I think we are good with them. Thank you so much and I want to thank you because I see here that you added the March numbers to the previous communication. I know you probably had to really crunch for that so thank you very much. I was like wow it's only April 7th so thank you very, very much it really puts us up to date and gives us a good picture and thank you for coming down. Okay, I let's call the committee back to order and again if I could ask my council, my committee members to defer this bill while we address some of the... The 'meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows: Mr. Bynum: Comment. Ms. Kawahara: Oh, oh yeah sorry. Do we have any discussion and comments, we are back in order, Bynum? Mr. Bynum: I just wanted to thank the parks department and members of the public who have testified regarding this issue. The Wailua golf course is an awesome asset to our community, you know I haven't beEN playing much the last few years but when I did what I really appreciated was that the course quality did improve. The irrigation system improved. The management improved. You know I think we all remember a period in time where it was getting pretty shabby and it has improved a lot. It is also a great course right on the ocean that'when you play and you can walk, it's one of the few courses you can walk. But when you play you are not surrounded by high end homes and condominiums, you really get a feel of nature and that's a real change from a lot of courses. And so also mentioned that the irrigation system as Jay has pointed out could have been you know done different ways but it did impact the outcome of the enterprise fund. And that irrigation system is also a great asset because it uses reclaimed water, it's not pottable water that is irrigating the golf course and environmentally that is very appropriate. We have been able to use that irrigation system at the adjacent Lydgate Park to do some innovative and appropriate things that saved money and are environmentally sound. And I agree with Mr. Furfaro that I'm not one that says:our ultimate goal has to be that the enterprise that the golf course pays for itself. The county provides functions, recreational functions recreational functions to everything from skateboarders to basketball players and baseball, and that's an expense that we incur as citizens and it's inappropriate that there be some cost in my opinion from the general fund for the golf, for golfing and for the huge amount of citizens particularly seniors and juniors who and that's an integral part of their life. The. question is at what level is it appropriate? You know, and changing mark in conditions change things. The other thing is, we are here to address fee changes that had unintended consequences and I have already mentioned that sometime change in Government is not responsive to the market and unfortunately we are deferring today which just delays rectifying some of that a little further. But I understand the reason but yeah so it's really what level is it appropriate to play with what we subsidize the golf course and I had another thought but I lost it so I will close with that. . Ms. Kawahara: Okay, another comments. Council member • w Furfaro. And then I... Mr. Furfaro: I'm not a member of the committee so I have to yield to you. .'Ms. Kawahara: Oh, councilmember. • Mr. Furfaro: Thank you for letting me participate as much as I did as a noncommittee member. I do want to say I appreciate the fact that we are going to explore the dual ID concept because when we set these rates and we determine what the potential of these rates are based off previous rounds the more people change categories certainly the more we lose . our revenue stream. I appreciate the testimony today about the dual ID system and I also want to say, I hope..you pursue that because I would think that the state drivers license ID problem is probably something all the municipal courses have a problem with through the whole State. Ms. Kawahara: I suspect that's true too. Mr. Furfaro: Thank you again for letting me as a nonmember participate as much as I did. Thank you. Ms. Kawahara: Of course, of course. Councilmember Chang. . Mr. Chang: Yeah I just want to say that without question I support you know "and" as versus "or" as far as we indicating to our visitors what the criteria is going to be. If you look at the website, on the website it clearly talks about the fact that we don't have an ATM. Well put it this way they don't say we don't have an ATM or a credit card machine, it's cash and checks only. When the receptionist picks up the phone for golf tee times they will ask if you are a local, Kama'aina, etc, etc. If you are visiting the Island as a Mali'hini they will tell you that bring cash, bring travelers checks, and on the website it just says a Hawai`i state` drivers license. It can easily be addressed via the website and it can easily be addressed dialog that we will ask for this in addition we will ask for that. So I think that's and easy way to do that. And as a note of record for those that are you know visitors that happen to have a Hawai`i state drivers license, if you go to Kiahuna, you go to Puakea, you go to Princeville or you go to the Prince as long as you have an ID you won't get hassled. People know that you may be getting the card somehow but they won't ask that question, so I believe that the visitors are getting a good deal at every other golf course. That will also include boat rides, activities, helicopter rides, and some restaurants so they can take advantage of great Kama'aina rates other ways so that's what I would like to say. I would also like to say in reference to dropping the rate from thirty to forty eight, from the people I have talked to the ones that know how to get the card they have a system and they play it quite often. Those that will play the sixty or play the forty eight might be the ones to play once or twice. So I believe that's a different visitor and that's the ones we are trying to attract as far as the pro shop and as far as the concessions are concerned. So I look forward for our next up and coming dialog after we get our wordings correct thank you. Ms. Kawahara: Okay, okay, great, any other comments, committee members or other council members? I want to just wrap this up say it is illegal to have two drivers licenses one in a different state. So as we all are finding out and I have known for a long time working in the.State with the library system . y • ~ when we charge things, people, certain people will go a long way to save a certain amount of money and it's really difficult and very frustrating for the workers that have to deal with it and whatever we can do to help ease that situation for them to be able to better identify legitimate Kama'aina tax payers will be something that could come out of this. I appreciate everyone's support in deferring this and everyone's seriousness in taking the difficulties of figuring out rates and how to apply them. So if I could get a motion to oh one last comment please. Mr. Chang: When you make your questions to the County Attorney, you might want to ask the legality of the license: ' Ms. Kawahara: Yes. Mr. Chang: Because it may be illegal; however, if someone says they lost their card, their license they still they got their license, their going to go back home and our license you know your expiration could be upwards to eight years or it could be upwards to three years so they can just stash that so they know when they are going to come, and very briefly one of the things that was brought up by motor vehicle and by the starters. If you got a license hot off the press then why not make it valid after thirty days or after sixty days or ninety days. You can't.use it until it shows that you have had it for like ninety days or sixty days but it goes back because people come every year. I remember in the old days that was a fact they were many truckers that use to truck across the country, but as they are going from the east coast to the mid west to the west coast they were getting a license in this state, in this state, in this state, in this state whether it was just for novelty purposes or whether they could use it within the state so you may want to ask that question about the legality. I do feel that there are two people with both licenses. Ms. Kawahara: Okay thank you and I appreciate that and that reminds me to coordinate the questions if you have them and you can submit them to either myself or to Jade because she will be putting them together. Okay, okay thank you, with that, any other discussions? With that if I could get a motion to defer. Tim Bynum: Motion to defer. Mr. Chang: Seconded. Ms. Kawahara: Thank you. All those in favor? Committee Members: Aye. Ms. Kawahara: None opposed. Motion to defer. . Upon motion duly made by Councilmernber Bynum, seconded by Councilmember Chang, and unanimously carried, Bill No. 2348 was deferred. There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 10:05a.m. Re ecG~y s mitted, L`aurie Chow Senior Clerk Typist APPROVED at the Committee Meeting held on May 5, 2010: . LANI KAWAHAR,A Chai'r, Parks & Transportation Committee