Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout04-29-2009-Doc15856 . x. • • • MINUTE S BUDGET & FINANCE CONIlVIITTEE Apri129, 2009 A meeting of the Budget & Finance Committee of the Council of the County of Kaua`i, State of Hawai`i, was called to order by Councilmember Daryl W. Kaneshiro, Chair, at the Historic County Building, Room 201, Lihu`e, Kaua`i, on Wednesday, April 29, 2009, at 9:06 a.m., after which the following members answered the call of the roll: Honorable Bill "Kaipo" Asing Honorable Tim Bynum Honorable Dickie Chang Honorable Jay Furfaro Honorable Daryl W. Kaneshiro Honorable Lani T. Kawahara Honorable Derek S. K. Kawakami Minutes of the April 15, 2009 Budget & Finance Committee Meeting. Upon motion duly made by Councilmember Furfaro, seconded by Councilmember Asing, and unanimously carried, the Minutes of the April 15, 2009 Budget & Finance Committee Meeting was approved. The Committee proceeded on its agenda items as follows and as shown in the following Committee reports which are incorporated herein by reference: Bill No. 2305 AN ORDINANCE AMENDING ORDINANCE NO. B-2008-673 AS AMENDED, RELATING TO THE CAPITAL BUDGET OF THE COUNTY OF KAUA`I, STATE OF HAWAI`I, FOR THE FISCAL YEAR JULY l, 2008 THROUGH JUNE 30, 20091 BY REVISING THE SURPLUS AND APPROPRIATIONS ESTIMATED IN THE PUBLIC ACCESS FUND (Appropriation of $1.85 million from the Public Access Fund to Black Pot Beach Park Expansion-Land Acquisition) , [This item was deferred to June 10, 2009.1 DAR,YL KANESHIRO, BUDGET & FINANCE CHAIR: Thank you for that. Is there anyone here that wanted to speak on this item? Anyone in the Chambers? Mr. Mickens, go ahead, you have the floor. There being no objections, the rules were suspended. GLENN MICKENS: Good morning, Councilmembers, for the record Glenn Mickens. Thank you, Daryl. I have a short testimony. I totally agree that we need all the open space we can get for parks and recreational areas. You have a copy of my testimony. I salute all the dedicated people on the Open Space Commission and truly appreciate all the work they do for us in obtaining valuable land with a budget that is probably way too small for them to truly do the job that they want to do. I do hope that this pro erty at Black Pot Beach Park, that I believe the owner has valued at around 5,000,000; I'm not positive about that figure, but I think it's someplace around there, and he is giving it to the county for a bargain of around $3,000,000, has been independently appraised. It may...well may be worth the money the owner has put on it, but we don't want to take the fox's word that he will guard the henhouse. Also, a few members who were on the council years ago will remember a survey of the League of Women Voters did . • • • ~ showing how many of our county parks were in excellent, g'ood, fair or poor condition. I'm sure, Kaipo, you remember that survey. I believe that Lydgate was the only park to get a good or fair rating and all the rest were poor. The point is that we have to increase our manpower if we want to get all our recreational areas in good shape and I don't remember more laborers being asked for by parks and recreation in the last budget session. Maybe I missed seeing it,. but I don't think so. And since we're acquiring more park area, we are going to need even more people to take care of it. So I do hope this can be factored into the equation. Mel once showed slides of our parks and the sorry shape they were in. I think it was something like six or seven years, when Mel first came on the council, and nothing has been done to alleviate this situation. So again, as you know I've testified many times about our maintenance of our areas and right now we need more manpower to be able to fully maintain those. So again, I applaud the people that are going after this particular . area to be able to do it, but I do hope that we will address the maintenance part. Thank you. Mr. Kaneshiro: Thank you, Mr. Mickens. Any questions for Mr. Mickens? If not is there anyone else in this Chambers that wanted to testify on this bill? If not I'm going to call the meeting back to order. There being no one else wishing to testify on this bill, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows: Mr. Kaneshiro: Before I open this up for any comments from my committee members, my intent on this bill is to defer this bill until June 10 and the reason for that is. that we do have an appraisal process coming up very shortly. They're in the process; I did get a...a communication from Mr. Rezentes and they are in the process of doing an appraisal. I say June 10 because if we do have the appraisal before that it will give the committee enough time to look at the appraisal and June 10 will probably be the cutoff date for this appropriated money for this year. So, hopefully we'll get the appraisal by then, but if not, we can still do another money bill, just to let people know. But we'll...we'll try to push the administration to get an appraisal by...previous to the June 10, meeting and this will give us enough time to move this bill forward to the whole council and if everything is well, to be approved for this fiscal. So with that, members, any comments before I...we call for a deferral. Mr. Furfaro, go ahead. Mr. Furfaro: Yes, thank you very much for that response from the administration and yes, I would like them to move on this appraisal with some urgency. But I did want to quan quantify and qualify some of my earlier comments where I...I mentioned alternatives to financing. I...I don't 'want any of those alternatives to be part of the process on the decision making but rather, you , know, if we can convince the administration to look at other source funds like some money to replenish the account from the bond fund and/or the summary of the actual North Shore Parks Fund knowing the urgency to do Ha'ena Park. Those i things can always come into the picture at a later date as reimbursables to the fund. The most important thing and...and I heard you say is the urgency in getting the appraisal done. But I wanted to make clear that other financing opportunities should not contribute to any delay in the actual...purchase process, that these are things that we can learn...look at during the year. The appraisal is the first step and the most urgent step in the acquisition. Thank you, Mr. Chair. _ Mr. Kaneshiro: Thank you for that Mr. Furfaro. Anyone else before I call for the deferral on this? Mr. Bynum. 2 1 , ~ • • . Mr. Bynum: Yeah, I support the deferral and understand, but I just wanted to make a comment regarding Mr. Mickens' testimony. He said that he didn't believe that the parks had improved in the last six years and I just wanted to totally disagree with that. I think the parks department has done an outstanding job of improving the maintenance and the quality of maintenance in our parks department. And I think the...you know, his point was that we need to increase manpower. We...we're not increasing manpower in the county of Kaua`i this year and I think the parks is doing a good job with their current manpower. Regarding Black Pot, if we acquire this one lot, I...I don't think it's gonna add significantly to the maintenance cost for the park there, so. I just wanted to recognize the parks department for making wonderful strides in the last six years in terms of park maintenance. It'll never be perfect the way we want it, but it certainly is adequate and beyond that...beyond adequate in...in most parks. So thank you. Mr. Kaneshiro: Thank you for that. With that, can I have a motion to defer? Upon motion duly made by Councilmember Kawakami, seconded by Councilmember Chang, and unanimously carried, Bill No. 2305 was deferred to June 10, 2009. CR-B&F 2009-09: on Bill No. 2306 AN ORDINANCE AMENDING ORDINANCE NO. B-2008-672 AS AMENDED, RELATING TO THE OPERATING BUDGET OF THE COUNTY OF KAUA`I, STATE OF HAWAI`I, FOR THE FISCAL YEAR, JULY 1, 2008 THROUGH JUNE 30, 2009, BY REVISING THE SURPLUS AND APPROPRIATIONS ESTIMATED IN THE GENERAL FUND ($500,000-Kaua`i Visitors Bureau Economic Stimulus Grant) [Approved.] CR-B&F 2009-10: on Bill No. 2307 AN ORDINANCE AMENDING ORDINANCE NO. B-2008-672 AS AMENDED RELATING TO THE OPER.ATING BUDGET OF THE COUNTY OF KAUA`I, STATE OF HAWAI`I, FOR THE FISCAL YEAR, JULY 1, 2008 THROUGH JUNE 30, 2009, BY REVISING THE SURPLUS AND APPROPRIATION ESTIMATED IN THE GENERAL FUND ($300,000-Consultant Services-Special Counsel) [Approved.] There being no objections, the Committee recessed at 11:35 a.m. The Committee reconvened at 11:52 a.m., and proceeded as follows: 3 • ~ • L Bill No. 2308 A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING CHAPTER 19, AR,TICLE 3, SUBSECTION 19-3.2 (b) AND SUBSECTION 19- 3.2 (i) OF THE KAUA`I COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO INCREASING THE PLAYING AND DRIVING RANGE BALL TOKEN FEES AT THE WAILUA GOLF COURSE [This item was deferred.] Mr. Kaneshiro: Budget & Finance Chair now calls this meeting back to order. Can you please read the next bill? WILMA AKIONA, Council Services Secretary: Yes. Bill No. 2308, a bill for an ordinance amending Chapter 19, Article 3, subsection 19-3.2(b) and subsection 19-3.2 (i) of the Kaua`i County Code 1987, as amended, relating to increasing the playing and driving range ball token fees at the Wailua Golf Course. Mr. Kaneshiro: Thank you. With that, do we have anyone here that wanted to speak on this particular item? Ms. Kawahara: I do...oh, sorry! Mr. Kaneshiro: Anyone want to make testimony? Anyone in the chambers here? Do we...Mr. Mickens. There being no objections, the rules were suspended. GLENN MICKENS: Thank you, Daryl, for the record Glenn Mickens. I...I just want to make this short statement. You've heard me say it before that...that golf course is an enterprise fund. We're putting, I think as Kaipo figure you kicked out I think was a million dollars a year, someplace around there, that we put into it, which means it isn't an enterprise fund. My proposal is either make it a true enterprise fund and you're gonna have to raise the fees to be able to do it and as Kaipo also pointed I'm sure long ago it was balanced. I think the income was equal to the outgo. That sprinkler system that broke down, I presume that was one of the reasons something happened. They had to put fire engines out there to water the greens and stuff for awhile. So they didn't have any money set aside and I...I...my guess if I heard right that's what jacked the price up where it has now become where the county has to keep on pumping this money into it. So, you know, it...I...I think it's gotta be one of two ways. Either we go ahead and have it as a true enterprise fund, raise the fees or we do that...these people are arguing that we use our parks and recreation on the island and we don't charge kids for here or there: I kind of think that's oranges and apples. But that's the case they're making and if that's going to be the case, then, you know, let the golf course be for free. Let the people go ahead and use it as...as a recreational area. Anyway, that's just my comment, Daryl, and I thank you. Mr. Kaneshiro: I thank you for those points. Anyone else wanted to speak on this item. Mr. Rosa. JOE ROSA: For the record Joe Rosa. One thing I want to emphasize is make the golf course more pleasant for anyone to come and use by greeting them, aloha, welcome to the Wailua Golf Course, everyone's welcome or something like that there. There was a time back that the...they had a sign was listed as Wailua Gol£..Country Club and people would say, was it only strictly for club membership. I told them no, it's open to the public. It's a public golf course. So, they said, oh, they should do something about the sign. So I mentioned at that 4 ; a • • time way back to the old council and they sort of did something about it. But as it is I think we need the tourist industry to supplement the income of the golf course. So, try and make it more welcome to the tourist also. Let them know that it's a public, open golf course, not a private golf course. Thank you. Mr. Kaneshiro: Thank you for that Mr. Rosa. Anyone else wanted to speak on this item? If not, I'll call the meeting... Do we...anyone else? No? Okay. I'm going to go ahead and call the meeting back to order. There being no one else wishing to testify, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows: Mr. Kaneshiro: At this point, I don't have anything on the floor, any motion. Councilmember Bynum made a motion to approve, seconded by Councilmember Asing. Mr. Kaneshiro: With that I'll open it up for discussion, committee members. Go ahead, Mr. Furfaro. Mr. Furfaro: Yes, Mr. Chair. I...I have three pending questions that I have not gotten answers back from the parks and recreation or the finance department and I clearly think until we understand those questions they have impact on what may have been presented to the Cost Control Commission that's making these recommendations. The first item and it's kind of a follow up on Mr. Mickens' question, if the staff can take notes, as the golf operation is an enterprise fund, often an enterprise fund is also allowed to pay to the county certain fees that deal with oversight. These are not necessarily cost associated with operating the golf course. So my first question is, on our spreadsheet for going forward, there's an interfund transfer amount of a quarter of a million dollars, $267,076. I'd like to know if that's part of any enterprise charge that the administration is applying to the golf course. The second item is I've never been clear, and we've had this discussion when I was Finance chair too, about these determinations between repair and maintenance, such as putting paint on a building, and CIP. And I wanted to know are there CIP items, capital improvement plans; that have happened recently to the golf course and/or in the future where they actually improve the long-term value of the asset. And if the answer to that is yes, then the question will also be how do they handle the depreciation on that and how they apply it to a depreciation schedule because neither of those should be considered as an operating cost and I don't know what was presented to the Cost , Control Commission. I don't know if they presented them a Profit and Loss Statement purely for operation. And so, you know, I'm going to have a hard time without the answers to those questions to really understand the P&L for the golf course. Mr. Kaneshiro: Okay. So you want us to put a communication in... 41 Mr. Furfaro: I£ ..if... Mr. Kaneshiro: ...a written communication to the administration to answer some of those questions that you just brought up? 5 • • . Mr. Furfaro: And then...and a new one in evaluating their piece, they have not shown any decrease in the numbers of rounds in their forecast as it relates to the downturn in visitors. They still have the visitor trend in rounds of golf equal to the past trends. Mr. Kaneshiro: Okay. Are there any further discussion? Councilwoman Kawahara, go ahead. Ms. Kawahara: Yes, yes. I wanted...I guess it's now, yeah. I wanted to address a lot of the people that had asked about why the...the county is in effect subsidizing the golf course and I believe that Chair Asing had given us a basic history about it. Most of what people have asked me are about why they feel that they have to pay extra whereas people using the parks, the ball fields don't. I did a little bit of research and this is the response that I...I sent to one of the people asking that same question. All taxpayers pay for the maintenance upkeep...maintenance and upkeep of our parks and recreational areas. At one point the golf course was self-sustaining with user fees. Now, however, all taxpayers have to help subsidize it as in the money that was most recently placed in the Golf Course Fund from the General Funds. So originally the user fees would have been used to cover the running of the golf course. Now the county is subsidizing it. So far what I've found out is that the golf course is an enterprise activity and there are several enterprise activity types, all of which are considered a government good or service financed through user fees. The golf course to me falls under that kind of government good and a quality of life enterprise. The...I'm proud that the county continues to provi...provide the golf course as a public amenity to improve the quality of life for residents and visitors despite the fact that user fees are not covering the cost of running the facility. We are addressing some of that in...in this bill today and I...I thank you for letting me discuss that with our...with the people that may be watching on TV. Mr. Kaneshiro: Okay. Ms. Kawahara: I also want to say that the golf course is something that is good for the county because it brings...I mean it can, it brings in revenue, but it is a recreational opportunity. It opens up green space that may not otherwise have been available, especially along that coastline. And it does take care of some of our effluent that...that...so it...it is useful in many ways along with recreational uses. Thank you. Mr. Kaneshiro: Thank you for that. Any further discussion? Members? So, what I hear on the table today proposed by the committee members that until we have some questions answered that we probably won't be able to move forward on this proposed golf rates and I'm not sure if we have anyone here today or Mr. Rezentes can address some of the concerns that Mr. Furfaro brought forward, pretty much basic questions, but it may take some research. So at this point, I'll ask Mr. Rezentes if you heard some of the questions that were presented and...and see if you can give some answers to some of the questions that were presented. So at this point I will suspend the rules and for the record, just introduce yourself again. There being no objections, the rules were suspended. ; i WALLACE G. REZENTES, JR., Director of Finance: Aloha, Councilmembers. Wallace Rezentes, Jr., Director of Finance. I apologize, no, I did not hear... 6 . • • Mr. Kaneshiro: Okay. Mr. Rezentes, Jr.: ...the...the... I think I must have been walking over at the time or gathering some inforination when... Mr. Kaneshiro: And...and I realize too that probably the...the appropriate people for us to have here is probably the golf course people, you know. Mr. Rezentes, Jr.: Parks and rec folks. Mr. Kaneshiro: Yes. So I...I realize that, but if Mr. Furfaro has some questions that you may be able to address that's fine, if not... Mr. Rezentes, Jr.: Okay. Mr. Kaneshiro: ...you know, that's... Mr. Rezentes, Jr.: Sure. Mr. Kaneshiro: ...not a big deal for us. I think, Mr. Furfaro... Mr. Furfaro: Sure. Mr. Kaneshiro: ...if you could just pose one or two of the questions that you feel maybe the finance could help us out. Mr. Furfaro: There's...there's...there's only three questions, Wally, and I would like to send them over so that we...we have a clear understanding of the golf course. What is actually in the expenses where we're seeing because I think that will drive some of the decisions ultimately on the...on the decisions we make about rates. We do not prepare a separate Profit and Loss Statement for the golf course as an enterprise fund? Mr. Rezentes, Jr.: There is. Mr. Furfaro: There is. So, I would...I would like to...to see that and then... Mr. Rezentes, Jr.: As far as the expenditures, you folks all seen the expenditures that was presented to you in their budget, right? So...I mean, you...you'll...you'll see the detailed line item expenditures that they've proposed in their budget submittal to you. - Mr. Furfaro: Yeah, I understand that and I don't want to make it sound like I'm naive in asking these questions and maybe if I have the narrative associated with the expense lines, I could best, you know, self-analyze the particular questions. My first question is when we put in something like, and this is a practice I want to know...I'm gonna...when we put in a CIP item because it comes back to Councilwoman Kawahara's question, if we add value to the asset, the asset is everybody's asset. It's all taxpayers' asset, whether you're a golfer or a tennis player... Mr. Rezentes, Jr.: Yes. 7 • . ' . Mr. Furfaro: ...it's an asset. So, how do we handle CIP improvements to the golf course long-term and...and perhaps was the sprinkler system one of those improvements? Mr. Rezentes, Jr.: It definitely was. Mr. Furfaro: Okay. Mr. Rezentes, Jr.: Mm-hm. Mr. Furfaro: And so is there a separate schedule that is depreciated for the installation of the water irrigation system that actually is below the operating line? And it actually goes on to, you know, our books and it is how do I want to basically say, you know, we must have this appreciation line offset somewhere and that's what I want... Mr. Rezentes, Jr.: Okay. Mr. Furfaro: That's what I want to know, Wally. And... Mr. Rezentes, Jr.: So, councilmember, you want to see the depreciation schedule. Well, not only for the...not only for the water improvements...water...water system that was done, but any other CIP type of item. Mr. Furfaro: Yeah and I...I think if you can explain the water piece for me, then I'm certainly sure you can put in a little paragraph that we apply it appropriately to other asset increases and other CIP projects. The other question is if we call it an enterprise fund, do we at central accounting services charge any kind of fee and...and what is that fee because that too should not impact the golfers in the fact that, you know, we're charging ourselves a fee to manage a county asset. You know, it's not actually an operating cost in...in some terms. And...and that's my three questions. Mr. Kaneshiro: Okay. Mr. Rezentes, Jr.: Okay. . Mr. Kaneshiro: All right. Mr. Rezentes, Jr.: And...and we...we do that to...to those funds which we would charge a central services charge because the golf fund, for instance, doesn't do their own payroll services, their own AP services... Mr. Furfaro: Right. Mr. Rezentes, Jr.: ...and etc. So yeah, there is an allocation. Mr. Furfaro: But...but we do do that for enterprise funds. Mr. Rezentes, Jr.: Right, correct. Mr. Furfaro: And so there's this broad understanding from people that an enterprise fund automatically has to break even. Well also in that configuration is the fact that we...we need to look at the money we're collecting ourselves... 8 . • ~ • Mr. Rezentes, Jr.: Absolutely. Mr. Furfaro: ...with...with...which op...offsets our own operating cost be...because you have this unit, for lack of any other term called central services, and that's going to exist whether you charge the fee or not in most cases. Mr. Kaneshiro: Okay. Mr. Furfaro: So, thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Kaneshiro: Thank you. Since I have Wally up here, any other questions in finance side for Mr. Rezentes? Mr. Chang. Mr. Chang: Thank you, Chair. Mr. Rezentes, do we have a database to see that we know how many residents play a day or play a month, I should say, how many? Mr. Rezentes, Jr.: Yes, they...they have a...a...a monthly tally/spreadsheet that would show, you know, the number of rounds, the number of rounds by local residents, the number of rounds by cardholders, non-cardholders, tourists, etc. So there's that breakdown monthly that's completed by, I believe, the golf course and the parks and rec accounting folks. Mr. Chang: So...so there is a database like on an individual basis, like an individual played an x-amount of rounds per month. Mr. Rezentes, Jr.: Not on an individual basis. On...on a... Mr. Chang: Average. Mr. Rezentes, Jr.: ...number of rounds by category. They...I know they have that data. Mr. Chang: Okay, thank you. Mr. Rezentes, Jr.: Yeah. Mr. Kaneshiro: Thank you. Any other questions for Mr. Rezentes? Ms. Kawahara: I do. This has to... Mr. Kaneshiro: Go ahead. Ms. Kawahara: I can ask him about the fees, right? When I was talking, I went and talked to the golf course staff with Lenny and we had been tossing around an idea about part-time resident fees in order to increase the revenue because of...the desire for the part-time residents not to pay the non- resident and are paying the way lower resident fee. Is that something that you know is doable? Because...because for me I know as in our library system it's hard to do part-time and figure it out. But for property tax...property tax bills which prove that they were part-time residents or would that cause headache... Mr. Rezentes, Jr.: Yeah, I think the... Ms. Kawahara: For you to... ' 9 • ~ - Mr. Rezentes, Jr.: ...the...the devil is in the details, yeah? Ms. Kawahara: Yeah. Mr. Rezentes, Jr.: I think...I think I understand where...where you're going. I think the...the question is whatever we propose, how easy, you know, how...or how...how difficult would it be to implement and administer. I know that there are a number of people that come here and spend four or five, six months or some spend two months annually and...and feel that because they...they own real estate or they...you know, they're not a fulltime resident but be...you know, they...they...they're here and they're a part-time resident as you say. The question is how...how do we in fact prove that and...and...and you know not cause a stir, a controversy at...at the, you know, when they go in to check in. And unfortunately I don't know those answers. I...I would think that the parks folks and the people from the golf course could better explain the details because they're, I think, confronted with those types of questions quite often. I know in talking to golf course staff and talking to my own drivers license staff because the drivers license is used as a...a means to determine whether you're a resident or not a resident. You know, many, I should say, part-time residents that golf frequently would go get a driver's license... Ms. Kawahara: Yes. Mr. Rezentes, Jr.: ...say that they lost their license from Connecticut or wherever they're from and get a license through through the county and use that as a...as a...their identification. And, you know, it's...it's somewhat difficult. I know the driver's license is just...is just one of the means in which we could identify the person as being a resident or not. But there's other things such as the state tax return, etc. But, you know, those kind of things, I'm not sure how easy that is to...to manage at the...at the window, you know. So, my...my suggestion would be maybe let's take it back and talk to the guys that that work it day-to-day and...and get some good advice from...from them if...if you want it to go in...in...along those lines. Ms. Kawahara: It was mostly like on a technical side of the finance division, the taxpayer type thing. Mr. Rezentes, Jr.: Yeah. Ms. Kawahara: How you identify. Because in my discussions with them, they say that there is...there is a revenue that's not being taken in by...by those people that do take...get a license. Say they lost their Connecticut license, say they're...and say they're residents but they're part-time that are...would be willing . to pay a higher part-time...part-time fee Mr. Rezentes, Jr.: But they feel... Ms. Kawahara: ...but not... Mr. Rezentes, Jr.: ...they should not...not pay the... , ~ Ms. Kawahara: Yeah. / Mr. Rezentes, Jr.: ...the whole... Ms. Kawahara: So... 10 ; f • ~ Mr. Rezentes, Jr.: ...the... Ms. Kawahara: So... Mr. Rezentes, Jr.: ...whatever the visitor rate is. Ms. Kawahara: And that expires every year, so they'd have to show every year to me would be the...they are paying property taxes, which...which in turn fund the golf course. So, that was just my question about that revenue stream and picking it out and...and maybe figuring out a way to do that and...and it did get into the hard details of how to do it. Mr. Rezentes, Jr.: And...and you know, we...we've...we should also try to figure out what would be the more appropriate way to address that if it's via ordinance or via rules or combination thereof. Ms. Kawahara: Yeah, okay. Mr. Rezentes, Jr.: I understand. Ms. Kawahara: Thank you, thank you. Mr. Kaneshiro: Okay, with that, Mr. Furfaro, you had a question? Anyone had a question? Mr. Furfaro: Yeah...I...maybe we should add as a follow up to Mr. Chang, we can add to our communication, Wally, because there's others that probably have this information. Rather than just the category, you know, golfer, maybe we should understand and reflect the peak times that they play. Because all of those receipts get a tee time, right? I mean we know how many guys are playing at 11 because of the tee times and so. And they should probably have enough technology there that we could also start looking at...I mean it's...it's worth asking the question, you know. Mr. Rezentes, Jr.: Yeah, yeah, I...I...I'm not sure, but yeah, I hear what you're saying. Mr. Furfaro: Cer...certain rates start to be discounted at certain times, but we don't know what the peak...the peak demand is. And then regarding Lani's question on money left on the table with these out-of-state people getting Hawai`i drivers license, maybe there's some way to ask them to surrender their Vermont license. Mr. Rezentes, Jr.: They...they have to. Mr. Bynum: I thought they have to, yeah. Mr. Rezentes, Jr.: Or if they say they lose it though, you know. Mr. Furfaro: But then they don't bring it. I see...I see. Okay, I just thought Kawahara's question was worth raising that other part, but since they've already done it, that's fine. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Kaneshiro: Okay. With that thank you very much, Wally. I'll go ahead and call the meeting back to order. 11 . 3. . ~ ~ i There being no further questions for Mr. Rezentes, Jr., the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows: Mr. Kaneshiro: Do we have any further discussions on the floor at this point? I guess, committee members, what is your desire on this item? Mr. Bynum, I'll give you the opportunity. Mr. Bynum: It sounds like given that we have some questions that are unanswered, we move to defer this today and I know that would give some time to discuss a potential amendment that Councilmember Kawahara and myself were contemplating. So, I think if there's no sense of urgency on this, a deferral today would be in order. Mr. Kaneshiro: Mr. Furfaro. Mr. Furfaro: Yes, and...and I want to research something for those of you four years ago on the council, you know, we had talked about no rate for junior golfers and that was based on the fact that, you know, we really see them as the future customers, you know. And yet we had a group from the golfing world ask us to charge the dollar. I still want to...and we should know that juniors paid the regular rate that was one dollar after 1 o'clock and now they're proposing three. I still would like to visit, you know, that question about future investment in...in golfing. I...I'm not sure I support it, but there was testimony from the golf world that they should. So, that...that might be something yet for all of us to...to look at again. Mr. Kaneshiro: All right. Mr. Asing. Mr. Asing: All of those questions are age-old questions. Mr. Furfaro: Yes, I know the...I know they are. That's why I ' said it was four years ago. Ms. Kawahara: That's why we have fresh eyes. Mr. Asing: Even before then...even before then. Mr. Kaneshiro: Okay. Mr. Furfaro: Okay, thank you for the history on that. Mr. Kaneshiro: With...with that, I don't have a motion on the floor. Upon motion duly made by Councilmember Bynum, seconded by Councilmember Kawahara, and unanimously carried, Bill No. 2308 was deferred. CR-B&F 2009-11: on Bill No. 2309 A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING SUBSECTION (a) OF SECTION 21-9.2 OF THE KAUA`I COUNTY CODE, 1987 RELATING TO INTEGR.ATED SOLID WASTE MANAGEMENT [Approved.] 12 I , , . . ~ There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 12:29 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Wilma Akiona Secretary APPROVED at the Committee Meeting held on May 13, 2009: DARYL W. KAItEMIRO Chair, Budget & Finance mmittee 13