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HomeMy WebLinkAbout05/04/2011 Public Hearing Transcript re: BILL#2406PUBLIC HEARING May 4, 2011 A public hearing of the Council of the County of Kauai was called to order by Tim Bynum, Chair, Finance/Parks & Recreation/Public Works Programs Committee, on Wednesday, May 4, 2011, at 2:14 p.m. at the Council Chambers, 3371-A Wilcox Road, Lihu`e, Kauai, and the presence of the following was noted: Honorable Tim Bynum Honorable Dickie Chang Honorable KipuKai Kuali`i Honorable Nadine K. Nakamura Honorable Mel Rapozo Honorable JoAnn A. Yukimura Honorable Jay Furfaro, Council Chair The Clerk read the notice of the public hearing on the following: BILL NO. 2406 -- A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE TO AMEND CHAPTER 23, ARTICLE 3, SECTION 23-3.2 OF THE KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, RELATING TO PEDDLERS AND CONCESSIONAIRES, which was passed on first reading and ordered to print by the Council of the County of Kauai on April 6, 2011, and published in The Garden Island newspaper on April 13, 2011. The following communications were received for the record: /1. Carl Imparato, Hanalei-to-Ha`ena Community Association, dated May 4, 2011 ~2. Ian Vernon, undated ~. Mitchell K. Alapa, dated May 4, 2011 ~. Lynn Alapa, undated ,5. Hanalei Makai Watch Program brochure The hearing proceeded as follows: MITCHELL ALAPA: Hello Council. I am Mitchell Alapa, and thank you for letting me come to this and speak on behalf of the boys at the beach. I cannot...we don't support that bill, and one of the reasons why I think about it is the statistic numbers of it, the people that coming to Kauai is way great. It's in the 1 millions of people been showing up to Hawaii, and all the businesses are happy, and there is really no complaints. And number two is that a lot of the people that come that surf with all of us guys, they invest a lot of money into the public schools on Kauai, in the thousands. And number three, the visitors keep coming back and they plan to keep on coming, no matter what, what goes on, they're going to keep on coming back. And I just want to share that with you folks, straight up, and I love you guys, and thanks for your support. Mr. Bynum: Thank you, Mr. Alapa. IAN VERNON: Hello County Council, Ian Vernon. I have some written testimony here, but I would like to make a statement first. I know I'm not supposed to ask questions, but in the notice in the newspaper about this bill, I noticed there wasn't anywhere that you could look it up online and actually get a copy, you would actually have had to drive to all the way to Lihu`e to get a copy of it, which is kind of hard for working class people to have to come down here to get a copy of the bill, and then also to come back again to actually provide written testimony. I also noticed there was no way that you could make written testimony online in regards to this bill, according to the newspaper article. Maybe I am wrong and there is a way to do that, but I think if there is, it should be stated in the notice that's in the paper of how to go about that. Mr. Bynum: I concur that currently we don't have online access to bills, but I am happy to report that it's in the works. We are going to do that soon. And people can submit testimony through council testimony at kauai.gov online through an e-mail. But so noted that...we have had some discussion about putting a form on the web as well, and with that said, I would like to start your three minutes now for your statement. Mr. Vernon: May I make this suggestion that you also post that in the county notice that alerts the people of the bills. Mr. Bynum: So noted. Mr. Furfaro, did you want to add to that? Council Chair Furfaro: No. I would just say that that is a process we're addressing right now, as Mr. Bynum pointed out. We'll have IT in front of us on Monday, and we are trying to constantly make improvements. Thank you. Mr. Vernon: So I came down today to voice my opposition to the amendments to this bill. I've been giving surf lessons in Hanalei for about 8 or 9 years now, and I feel like it's a valuable community services that has a lot of benefits to the local community, a lot of monetary benefits, and as well as tourism benefits. I feel like the wording of the original peddlers amendment is totally 2 sufficient to control all the activities in the park. They have signs in the parks already that say there is no selling of goods or services or...peddling in county parks is illegal. I don't know why it needs to be specifically singled out for sports and surfing instruction. To me that is discriminatory, when you also have busloads of people unloading and walking across the park doing exactly the same thing as what we are doing. I feel that if you pay for a good or service at a place of business and traverse the county park, that. is not .peddling. If you are staging your boards, advertising, or conducting business at a county park, that is peddling. And to put some kind of blanket thing that says walking across the park as part of your business is peddling, you got a lot of other people you need to address as well, otherwise you are discriminating. I know there has been a lot of problems that have caused by people doing these sorts of activities. And I feel like it could be easily enforced with the original peddling bill. I have to cheat and look at my notes here. I am really nervous, this is the first time I have sat been the county council. Mr. Bynum: You are doing well, please continue. Mr. Vernon: So in conclusion, what I would like to say is I do... we have all gone through a lot of trouble. We have all been trying to abide by the conditions they've set for us. There is really hasn't been any kind of solution regarding permits. It's been a long process for a lot of us that have tried to get permits to do this kind of stuff, and I have tried to get a permit to walk through the county park. I filled out about a 15-page SMA application at the department of planning. I am pretty sure they threw it away right after I left, or laughed at me, but anyway... Council Chair Furfaro: I wouldn't say that's necessarily true. Mr. Vernon: Maybe it's still there in a dusty file cabinet. Council Chair Furfaro: Please continue. Mr. Vernon: But anyway that was six or seven years ago. There really isn't any progress at this point regarding giving us permits, so I feel like making something illegal when we have no option to get a permit is kind of not really the right way to go about it. Thank you very much. Mr. Bynum: Councilmember Yukimura. Ms. Yukimura: Ian, I have a question. So how many people are teaching, or how many businesses are teaching surfing on Hanalei Bay? 3 Mr. Vernon: There would be two answers to that question, there would be businesses that have been involved with the DLNR and have insurance and are trying to do it in a way that is respectful of the community. And then there would be another group of businesses that don't really go through those channels and are peddling. They are peddling on the beach down there. They are giving the people that are trying to do it right. Ms. Yukimura: So how many in each category, approximately? Mr. Vernon: I would say there may be as many as 30 all together. Ms. Yukimura: The two categories added together. Mr. Vernon: Yeah, roughly balanced. Ms. Yukimura: So do you feel that this activity can continue without any impacts on other beach users? Mr. Vernon: All activities have impacts. Ms. Yukimura: Right. Mr. Vernon: Yes. I feel that people are going to be out there trying to surf no matter what. If someone was in a supervised or semi-supervised class, that may be better than the same person being out there without any supervision and not knowing what they are doing at all. A lot of the good schools also involve teaching people the basics of ocean safety. Ms. Yukimura: But do you think that people if they didn't have surf instructions would still try to surf? Mr. Vernon: Definitely, they do all the time, and they're much more hazardous than the people who are in classes. Ms. Yukimura: All right. So you think that allowing 30 commercial schools to teach surfing on the beach is a situation that can continue and should continue? Mr. Vernon: Just to make a comparison, let's just say you went to a ski hill and they said, oh sorry, you can' t take a class today, they're already all full. It's a recreational area and if people want supervision and instruction, I think that's a benefit. 4 Ms. Yukimura: Okay, so the answer is yes, you think it's okay as it is. Mr. Vernon: I think there could be a controlled amount of permits and classes; yes, that would be okay. I am not against any kind of control at all. I am actually for it. But I think the number should be fairly high in regards to the amount of people that can participate. Ms. Yukimura: Who is setting numbers at this point, do you know? Mr. Vernon: There has been numbers put forward by the Hanalei Community Association, by the DLNR, the NORMA board, and those are all fairly low; they're based on opinions from quite a few years ago. I must say that the surf instruction has somewhat snowballed in the last few years. People come to Hanalei for the sole purpose of learning to surf. They want to go out every day in a class, they want someone to instruct them, they want to progress with the sport. Ms. Yukimura: Maybe because the surf schools are there? Mr. Vernon: It's because it's a perfect place to do it. Hanalei is pretty much the idealic place to learn to surf. You can choose small waves even when the waves are big. The bottom is soft sand and they're slow rollers. And there are not really other appropriate beaches on the island in comparison. Ms. Yukimura: Thank you. Mr. Bynum: Hold on for a second, Mr. Vernon. Are there other questions? Councilmember Nakamura. Ms. Nakamura: I have a question. You said that some of the commercial schools have DLNR permits and others don't? Did you say there were two (inaudible)? Mr. Vernon: No, none of us have permits, that's part of the problem. They haven't been able to put together a process to actually implement permits. If you look at my written testimony, I included some of the examples of what we have all been going through through the last 10 years. Ms. Nakamura: Okay, and DLNR is the responsible for what happens on the sandy beach? Mr. Vernon: That's a good question, it's part of the problem. There is the ocean waters and us guys have been offered permits by the boating office. And that's who we have been dealing with through the majority of the time. 5 And they have asked us also to go to the planning department and apply for permits there to cross through the parks. Ms. Nakamura: I see. Thank you. Mr. Bynum: Mr. Vernon, I had some questions. This is your testimony you submitted today. Mr. Vernon: Yes. Mr. Bynum: And you hand carried this in today? Mr. Vernon: Yes. Mr. Bynum: Thank you, I appreciate it. But I am a little confused, it seems to me from looking at this packet that DLNR is permitting. You have a license or a permit? Mr. Vernon: Yes, I do, I have what I put on there, which is expired, and they are not renewing. It's a surf instructor permit, there's been a lot of stuff that has happened. It's been very confusing for us guys that are trying to do it right. Mr. Bynum: Now it's our turn to understand all of that as we go through this process. So the state is not currently permitting or regulating surf instruction on state properties? Mr. Vernon: No. Mr. Bynum: Thank you. Mr. Vernon: You are welcome. KANANI ALAPA: Aloha, my name is Kanani Alapa. I would have to just reiterate everything Ian Vernon just spoke about; he covered pretty much all the majority of the points that I wanted to cover as well. I do want to say that this process has been ongoing for a long time. It's been a constant battle to try to obtain permits. I know for our company, which is Hawaiian Surfing Adventures, we have tried now for over 11 years. And it's just been one agency to the next who can't seem to get their p's and q's in order. I feel that someone who is of indigenous ancestry that I have a right to try to make a living through perpetuating my culture. I feel like, the language that is currently being used in this amendment really limits local people and Hawaiian people the chance and the opportunity to try to make a living while engaging in cultural activity that's appropriate to represent their culture and their tradition. That's basically all I have to say. Thank you. 6 Mr. Bynum: Can you hold on one second please. And maybe you are not prepared to do this now, but I would like to know what language...you just said that language in the bill. And you don't have to answer right now, but... Ms. Alapa: Sure. When it talks about people traversing through county parks, traditionally surfboards, water equipment was always left at the beaches. If you look at the journals that Captain Cook wrote when he first came here, he spoke about hundreds and hundreds of people that he would see in the surf, playing and frolicking, and basically surfing. Where do you think that they actually stored the boards? It was always there left at the beach for their amusement. And what people also don't understand when it comes to surfing is that it actually has a lot of religious and spiritual connotations. People don't always assume surfing as something on the same level as say hula, but there were kahuna who did chants that would offer ceremonies at the makahiki festivals. This is something that a lot of people don't recognize anymore when it comes to surfing. Mr. Bynum: Do you see this bill as an attempt to eliminate surf instruction or an attempt to regulate it? Ms. Alapa: I do, and there is no process currently in place that allows us to either obtain or be refused a permit. And we try and we are just told you have to wait, you have to wait. There are some people who are going on 20 years now waiting for this to come through. So it' s a very gray area and I do believe, as Ian said, there are now schools that coming into place who don't have business licenses, who don't have insurance, And are basically just setting up there on the beach trying to get people to walk towards them for what they are calling free lessons in lieu of a donation. Mr. Bynum: Thank you. CARL IMPARATO: Aloha, Councilmembers. My name is Carl Imparato, and I am speaking today on behalf of the Hanalei to Ha`ena Community Association. The Hanalei to Ha`ena Community Association strongly supports this bill which would amend the county's existing peddlers and concessionaires ordinance to clearly regulate commercial, sport, and recreational activities and commercial equipment rentals in county parks. We believe that the regulation of the commercial uses of Hanalei's county parks, including the regulation of parking and traversing through the parks, when that's part of a commercial activity, is both appropriate and necessary. As many Councilmembers are already aware, the non-permitted commercial uses of Hanalei's beach parks have increased considerably over the past few years, and some of the previous speakers have noted that as well. Hanalei's county parks are used in the course of commercial boat tour operations, water sports instruction, and equipment rentals. While some levels of commercial activities are indeed appropriate, those levels should be determined 7 through a public process that relies on community input to determine those levels, rather than allowing the impacts of the commercial activities to outgrow the infrastructure that's intended for everyone. Self-regulation just does not work. New unregulated boat tour operators have added more than 80 people a day traversing the parks. The next 10 unregulated boat tour operators could turn that to 800; those are impacts. Equipment rentals occur in the parks rather than in the commercial districts of Hanalei. And major expansion of schools over the past 5 years, which has been alluded to also, have created a number of complaints about not having enough room to take keiki into the water for their activities. So we really can't turn a blind eye to these problems, and while no one likes to be regulated, regulation is necessary. In December 2008 the community association requested that the county administration begin the process of developing a comprehensive commercial activities management plan for Hanalei's parks and beaches, and so we are grateful that Bill 2406 seems to be a reasonable and thoughtful first step in such a process. We urge you to adopt Bill 2406, but in addition, we urge you to support the prompt implementation of regulations and permitting processes contemplated by the ordinance. I have to stress the importance of timely implementation of permitting processes as we are not calling for a ban on all. commercial activities, but for reasonable regulation of those activities. And so it's really important that a permitting process be put into place to deal with some of the issues that some of the previous speakers have raised. With that I want to thank you for considering this testimony. Mr. Bynum: Thank you for your testimony. Any questions of Mr. Imparato? Council Chair Furfaro: I do. Thank you. Mr. Bynum: Mr. Furfaro. Council Chair Furfaro: Carl, you know in a previous life for myself, I surfed. Okay. I was President of Wind and Sea Hawaii. I grew up with Buff and everyone at Makaha, and Gouveas, and so forth. I just want to make sure that we understand that this county cannot be regulating boating activities that are in the ocean. That's not our jurisdiction. That jurisdiction falls within the federal government and within the state. We also cannot manage areas under the DLNR along the shoreline and so forth. The intent of this bill, for everybody's knowledge, is to in fact to make sure as we reinvest in our parks or expand our parks or so forth that we find ourselves clearly attempting to make it a good experience for everyone by regulating it. I just want to make sure we are all clear. I mean we don't have this expanded jurisdiction along the shoreline and so forth, that's DLNR. The rivers that are navigable, that's the federal government. But I do think if we're going to make the kind of investment for public use, whether it's expanding of Black Pot, we 8 should make sure that we are preparing ourselves not only for the acquisition but to manage it. And I think that's a word that you used. And you do agree that at the end,' there will be some level of use. We just don't know what it is at this point, because we don't control those other components. I think this is a first step, and that's all I'm trying to convey to you, that we want to work this together as a community as a first step. Mr. Imparato: Right, agreed, .and we understand that the county's jurisdiction is over the parks and the SMA, and of course... And maybe I can make one more point, because it came up earlier, and I wanted to clarify that. The county's regulations need to fit hand in glove...or hand in hand, actually, with the state regulations, the DOBOR regulations that are being proposed. And I think Ian was the one who raised that earlier, that there are rules that have been proposed by DOBOR. They haven't been...they do have numbers in them. Those were numbers that came out of the north ocean recreation management group's process, a state run process. So the community association has not set any numbers for the desirable number of permits. I want to make that clear. We believe that that should be determined as we go through this process. We have endorsed the DOBOR rules because they do move the ball forward in the areas that you just discussed, in the waters, while the county rules here that we endorse would move us forward on the land. Council Chair Furfaro: Okay, thank you. Some of us here... I mean I surfed Hanalei since 1957 with an old balsa board, and Grandpa Henry was the coast guard...licensed coast guard captain in the area. But we are wanting to invest in areas for public use, and maybe the expansion of the park for public use, and therefore I just want to concur that we need to get some point, some level of regulation. But we have no control of what is happening at the shore, what is happening with the river ways, and so forth. That is a different political subdivision, and it's important for people to understand that. Mahalo very much for your testimony. Mr. Bynum: Thank you. MAKAALA KAAUMOANA: Aloha, Council. I am Makaala Kaaumoana, and you are reminding me, I'm an old surfer too. It's been many, many years; certainly not Makaha. I was never that good. Council Chair Furfaro: Let's not date ourselves. Ms. Kaaumoana: I was never that good. I am testifying today on behalf of the Hanalei Watershed Hui. I am testifying strongly in support of this bill. Our organization implements the Hanalei Watershed Action Plan, which was authored by the community, and works. to improve and support the cultural, environmental, and economic resources of the Hanalei Bay watershed. We have 9 been doing this work since 1999. Since that time we have observed the negative impacts to these resources by unregulated commercial uses of our public spaces, especially our parks. As the coordinator of the Hanalei Mauka-Makai Watch program, we urge this council to adopt this legislation. We welcome collaboration between our community and the county of Kauai to ensure the public understands the rules, and offer our support for enforcement. We appreciate this opportunity to testify on behalf of this thoughtful, useful, timely bill. I'm going to provide Peter with some of the Makai Watch brochures, so in case I said something you didn't know about, he will have a handout for you. He picks up on all the signals; here he comes. Aloha. . Mr. Bynum: Before Barbara comes up, we going to take a sit in place tape change, just a very short recess. There being no objections, the meeting was recessed at 2:38 p.m. The meeting was called back to order at 2:41 p.m., and proceeded as follows: Mr. Bynum: Ware going to call the meeting back to order. Checking my mic. Calling the meeting back to order. I believe the next speaker was Barbara Robeson. BARBARA ROBESON: Thank you, Councilmember Bynum and other Councilmembers. Barbara Robeson for the record; you have my written testimony. The current ordinance states that the purpose is, and it states that ,council finds that the peddling of wares and services on or near county parks, beaches, and playgrounds, and visitor sites has increased at an alarming rate, primarily because a gathering of people means potential customers. When unregulated, such peddling can become an intrusion on people's enjoyment of a place or a facility. With that in mind, I strongly support these amendments to the peddlers and concessionaires ordinance, as the amendments relate to the management of public lands, particularly in the Hanalei and the Black Pot Park areas: I believe the priority for park use belongs to the public. Non-permitted commercial uses on county land need to be brought under control, and these amendments propose to do so. As you know, for over 20 years the Hanalei boating issues have impacted Black Pot Park and the surrounding areas, and more recently non-permitted commercial uses, such as water sports, equipment rentals, and instructions have encroached into the public park areas. These proposals are one step towards reigning in and managing the non-permitted commercial activities. In addition, these amendments provide a framework for the parks and recreation department to develop detailed and specific park rules that could address these issues. So I urge your prompt adoption of Bill 2406 before the summer commercial uses escalate and overwhelm the public uses around the island. Thank you. Mr. Bynum: Councilmember Nakamura. 10 Ms. Nakamura: Hi Barbara. Barbara, do you believe that there is a coordinated management plan between the county and state for this area? Ms. Robeson: I think the county and the state, DOBOR and the county, have been working together to coordinate the DOBOR rules and the...well, the ocean and the land, basically, or the water and the land. So that those rules on both sides of the state and county would work together, to manage them in conjunction. So there have been cooperation between the two. Ms. Nakamura: There has been cooperation? Ms. Robeson: That's my understanding, yeah. Ms. Nakamura: Do you believe that there is a clear master plan for this area? Master plan, management plan for the Hanalei beach bay... Ms. Robeson: At this point there is not a master plan. I think this will lead towards the development of a master plan. You get the ordinance, and then the park rules come into play, which is kind of big picture for the island, and then hopefully along the lines if the park is expanded, that we could...in fact the community association several years back, as Carl mentioned, had been requesting that the county look at a master plan for the area. Ms. Nakamura: And as of this date, has there been any progress? Ms. Robeson: Not to my knowledge. Ms. Nakamura: Okay, thank you. Mr. Bynum: Council Chair. Council Chair Furfaro: So Barbara, the council's action on acquiring the Hodge property, the Mayor Baptiste's action to look at the accretion of land at the mouth of the Hanalei...you don't see that as pieces coming together? Ms. Robeson: Oh, I think it's part of a vision for a master plan. Council Chair Furfaro: So you see it as part of a vision. Ms. Robeson: But to have a plan that is a formal plan is a whole different issue. There's nothing written down in a plan format. Council Chair Furfaro: Understood. 11 Ms. Robeson; That I have seen, anyway. Council Chair Furfaro: But I just wanted to point out there has been some attempt through the administration, past, as well as past councils, to improve the acquisition or at least the control with an executive order conveying some regulation to the county. Ms. Robeson: Yes and for the future too. Mr. Bynum: Other questions? Councilmember Yukimura. Ms. Yukimura: Hi, Barbara. Do you feel that the lack of regulation is one of the. reasons there has been such a proliferation of schools and commercial activity? Ms. Robeson: Oh, I do. The lack of specific regulation, yeah. Ms. Yukimura: Okay, thank you. Mr. Bynum: Anyone else? Sorry, I was distracted. Thank you for your testimony. Ms. Robeson: Thank you. Mr. Bynum: Are there any other registered speakers. Mr. Nakamura: We have no further registered speakers, Mr. Committee Chair. Mr. Bynum: Anyone else in the audience would like it testify at this hearing? Seeing none...wait. Last minute. Sir, please state your name when you get up there, for the record. BRIT SANDERS: My name is Brit Sanders. I am an instructor for Hawaiian Surfing Adventures, and I just wanted to say I do not agree with this bill you guys are trying to pass, just because, you know, we use the... We are a legitimate business, we do pass through the parks, but we also pay taxes. Those taxes go into keeping those parks nice and stuff like that. And also when we're out in the water, we are not only watching the people in our lessons; we also are keeping everybody in the water safe. It's more like keeping the whole area safe. That's why I just...I think it's... I don't agree with the bill you guys are trying to pass. That' s all I really have to say. Thank you guys. Mr. Bynum: Thank you very much. Anyone else? Yes, sir. 12 RUSSELL LEWIS: My name is Russell Lewis. I'm Russell Lewis Surf Coaching. I'm an accredited international coach. I have been trying to acquire a permit since `94 here, and I have gone through all the different things to acquire permits; not available. One of the problems we getting with park lands and too many people parking and stuff down near the pavilion and all that and making it congested. I love the properties on the beachfront. I got hedges and plants on public property. We all pay money for that. I think this organization should sort that out first before they cut us off from making a living without giving us permits to do it the right way. That's all I need to say.. Thank you. Mr. Bynum: Thank you. Anyone else? If not, thank you all for your testimony, and this public hearing is closed. There being no further testimony on this matter, the public hearing adjourned at 2:49 p.m. Respectfully submitted, PETER A. NAKAMURA County Clerk /ao 13