HomeMy WebLinkAbout10/26/2011 INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS Committee MeetingMINUTES
INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS COMMITTEE
October 26, 2011
A meeting of the Intergovernmental Relations Committee of the Council of
the County of Kauai, State of Hawaii, was called to order by Councilmember
KipuKai Kuali`i, Chair, at the Council Chambers, 4396 Rice Street, Suite 201,
Lihu`e, Kauai, Hawaii 96766, on Wednesday October 26, 2011, at 3:21 p.m., after
which the following members answered the call of the roll:
Honorable Tim Bynum
Honorable Dickie Chang
Honorable Nadine K. Nakamura
Honorable Mel Rapozo
Honorable KipuKai Kuali`i, Chair
Honorable Jay Furfaro, Ex-Officio Member
Honorable JoAnn A. Yukimura, Ex-Officio Member
IGR 2011-02 Communication (10/14/2011) from Council Vice Chair
Yukimura, requesting agenda time to propose amendments to
Chapter 196, Hawaii Revised Statutes, Relating to Energy
Resources (Act 204, SLH 2008) for inclusion in the 2012 Kauai
County Legislative Package.
[This item was deferred.]
Mr. Kuali`i: Before I call on Councilmember Yukimura, I
want to say that I've sent correspondence to all Councilmembers and to the
Administration regarding submission of proposals for the 2012 Kauai County
Legislative Package. The deadline is Friday November 4, and we will be discussing
all proposals submitted by the Administration and Councilmembers on Wednesday
at our Council Meeting on November 16. So Councilmember Yukimura at this time
has asked for our support to consider this proposed amendment regarding the
Energy Resources Act 204 which we've discussed before regarding aligning the law
with the intent and I'll let Councilmember Yukimura take it from there.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you Mr. Chair. In considering the
previous request I had which was to eliminate the variance for a gas, where there
was a gas on demand heater proposed for new construction of single family or
duplex housing, we rejected that but there was a, in our discussions there was some
real discussion about how the ultimate end owner or the buyer should be the one
who makes the decision about whether or not to go solar or to apply for a variance.
There was evidence showing-that the intent of the Legislature was such that there
was an intention that the ultimate end owner be the only one to be able to ask for a
variance -the gas variance. That's quoted in the law in my letter but it's taken from
Act 155 which is the Clean Energy Initiative, that -was the omnibus Bill that
launched the State's energy efforts. And so there was discussion and I think even
the Chair said maybe we could look at that. I'm putting this in front of the
Committee now for consideration because it's very clear from the intention
expressed in Act 155 that the desire of the Legislature was to allow for this fourth
variance which is the gas on demand variance, that it only be allowed if the end
owner applied for it. I'm proposing that we make this part of our County Legislative
Package, I'd like to have some discussion today but ask that it be deferred to the
Committee Meeting 2 October 26, 2011
discussion set by the Chair for discussion about our Legislative Package, I think it's
December 16?
Mr. Kuali`i: November 16.
Ms. Yukimura: November 16? But I wanted to have some
discussion. I did speak with PUC Chair and former Representative Mina Morita
about this and I think Councilmember Nakamura did speak to her too, and she was
very clear that the intention was that only the end owner would be making the
request. I think even Mr. Imparato who opposed removing the variance did also
make that point about the end owner being the one to ask for it. So I put this on the
table and I'd be happy to answer any questions to the extent that I can.
Mr. Kuali`i: Councilmember Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: I have a question. Your proposal is that the
stated intention and the text of the State Law be incorporated into the enforcement
policies so that in fact only the end user can request for the variance?
Ms. Yukimura: Exactly.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay.
Mr. Kuali`i: Other Councilmembers? Councilmember
Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: I'll just be brief, we had this discussion
before and the proposal was to eliminate the variance. It was very clear to me from
reading it that the legislative intent hadn't been followed because it says right there
- the intent is this. So I'm in full support of this, I think in essence it's preserving
choice. The choice was supposed to be for the consumer and when a developer or
rental unit person uses this variance contrary to the intent, it takes away the choice
of the consumer which was the whole point of this. I think this is much more, a
better alignment about and how to proceed to deal with this problem. Remember,
the reality is 50% of the homes built on Kauai have had variances and that's huge
compared to some of the other islands. It's very much in our best interest to get the
Legislature to just follow through with their initial intent.
Mr. Kuali`i: Councilmember Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you, and I agree with you. I think in
the earlier bill today I mentioned the purpose of the other Legislation where you
have a conflicting purpose with the bill and that's exactly what's occurring in this
bill. I did vote against the removal of the variance because I didn't believe, I think
that was going too far. This one I will support, simply because it brings the intent,
the Legislative intent into the bill or the ordinance or the act. I think it's a very
reasonable proposal that I will support when it gets to November 16.
Ms. Yukimura:
Mr.Kuali`i:
Nakamura.
Thank you.
Councilmembers? Councilmember
Committee Meeting 3 October 26, 2011
Ms. Nakamura: I have a copy of the form that DBEDT uses
to, when someone wants to request a variance from the solar water heating bill
statute. The way this form, and this is a form that DBEDT created and on the form
it gives a, it has to be submitted by a licensed professional, must be on a architect or
mechanical engineer's letterhead, there must be a professional stamp, and on it
there are three justifications for the variance. Nowhere on this form does it say that
"I spoke with the resident and the resident has chosen this variance but it was the
client's request." There's no place for a client's signature. So I think the intent is
clear in the bill but the way DBEDT is implementing the law is it could be "beefed"
up. I think there are flaws in this tool that is used that could easily, without
changing the law, include the intent of the Legislature.
Ms. Yukimura: May I answer?
Mr. Kuali`i: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: Actually I believe the three variances there
require calculations of life cycle costing. Is the gas variance also included there?
Ms. Nakamura: Yes, all three sources of variance...
Ms. Yukimura: Because there's four variances allowed under
the law.
Ms. Nakamura: Okay.
Ms. Yukimura: The top three require calculations and
actually meritorious, it requires the showing of merits between life cycle costs or
that there is a technology that's equivalent to a solar water heater. The last one
doesn't require any kind of calculation, it just says - if you have a gas heater. That
is the one that the Legislature said should be made only by the end consumer. But
the way the law is actually written, that is not stated in the law. So in speaking
with DBEDT, they didn't feel that they had the authority to require the end owner's
signature or reject an application if it didn't have an end owner, so they would
actually like this clarification in the law and will alter their forms accordingly if the
law can support that. One of the things I will do before the next time we consider
this is to get a letter from DBEDT saying that.
Ms. Nakamura: That would be great I think. The other thing
that should be considered as you prepare your legislation is looking at talking to
developers; Developers of large subdivisions that must make decisions up front
about certain, about the design of the building of each home. Sometimes it may not
be practical for the end user to be making that decision. When you're designing a
building, when you're putting in gas lines, so I'm just asking that you consider it,
that point of view in your deliberation.
1VIs. Yukimura: Well in fact according to former
Representative Morita, there will come situations like that. It's in the developer's
interest, where they'll never know who the end owner is if they're building spec
houses or subdivisions, and in that case she said -the intention was that the
default would be a solar water heater. That would be the most beneficial to the end
owner. I'm hoping to get something in writing from her saying that too. We have
been in touch with the architects but I haven't been able to really meet with them, I
Committee Meeting 4 October 26, 2011
know you had suggested that back and I hope before now and November 16 we'll be
able to get some input from them too.
Ms. Nakamura: And I have been in touch with the former
President of the Architects Association of Kauai and has initiated conversations
and they are interested in dialoguing more.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay.
Mr. Kuali`i: Any other Councilmembers? Councilmember
Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: Just to say that when I read the law closely
that's where I went to DBEDT and said -what's the problem? It seems so clear and
they said the things JoAnn said, they said it wasn't clear to them, they'd asked for
Attorney General opinions, they hadn't gotten that and they didn't feel like they
had that authority. It maybe could be resolved administratively but in the
meantime, 50% of the projects on Kauai are exempting and that's not happening on
Oahu where they do have developers who do big tract homes. They seem to on
Oahu just accepted it -this is the law, we're going to put this in. The way we
helped to impact it I think is this way, we can't instruct the Attorney General to
give an opinion or even request it, or maybe we could I don't know. Administratively
it hasn't worked out. DBEDT would like to apply the laws intended but they don't
feel like they don't have the authority now is what I heard from that.
Mr. Kuali`i: Councilmember Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes I think it's pretty clear that the
authority is not there. Even if people argue that it is, clarifying it so that there's no
question would be a useful thing. On Oahu I think right now, many of the tract
houses are military development and the military is completely committed to
energy self sufficiency, they have amazing targets. And then there's other
developers on Oahu that seem to know that it actually increases the value of homes
to have solar water heaters because the operating cost of the home is lower. There
seems to be acceptances as Councilmember Bynum said. The main thing we would
do here to clarifying the law would be to support the outcome that was intended by
the Legislature, but still leaving choice available.
Mr. Kuali`i: Any other Councilmembers? Okay so it
sounds like your concept of principal has our support and we'll look for you to draft
the bill if I could get a motion to refer this item to the Council Meeting of
November 16.
Mr. Rapozo:
Mr. Kuali`i:
Ms. Yukimura:
Mr. Kuali`i:
Ms. Yukimura:
Committee a week from now?
Is it a Committee Meeting?
It's a Council Meeting.
Are you going take, may I?
Yes.
Are you going to work on any of the bills in
Committee Meeting 5 October 26, 2011
Mr. Kuali`i:
that want you want to do?
Ms. Yukimura:
Mr. Kuali`i:
then if it's two weeks.
I guess that would be the week before yes. Is
I think so just to give us time to...
November 9, so that's just a motion to defer
Mr. Rapozo: Defer to that date, date specific.
Ms. Yukimura: It'll still be the same.
Mr. Kuali`i: It's two weeks from today.
Mr. Rapozo: That soon?
Mr. Kuali`i: We're at the end of October.
Mr. Rapozo: No we're not.
Mr. Kuali`i: Yes we are. So can I have a motion to defer?
Upon motion duly made by Councilmember Chang, seconded by
Councilmember Rapozo, and unanimously carried, communication
IGR 2011-02 was deferred.
There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 3:37 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Ihilani C.J. Laureta
Secretary
APPROVED at the Intergovernmental Relations Committee Meeting on
~N^^~ovember 9, 20
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KIP KAI KUALI`I
CHAIR, INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS COMMITTEE