HomeMy WebLinkAbout03/07/2012 PLANNING Committee Meeting MINUTES
PLANNING COMMITTEE
MARCH 7, 2012
A meeting of the Planning Committee of the Council of the County of Kaua`i,
State of Hawaii, was called to order by Nadine K. Nakamura, Chair, at the Council
Chambers, 4396 Rice Street, Room 201, Lihu`e, Kaua`i, on Wednesday, March 7,
2012, at 9:31 a.m., after which the following members answered the call of the roll:
Honorable Dickie Chang
Honorable Mel Rapozo
Honorable JoAnn A. Yukimura
Honorable Nadine K. Nakamura
Honorable Jay Furfaro, Ex-Officio Member
Excused: Honorable Tim Bynum
Honorable, KipuKai Kuali`i, Ex-Officio Member
The Committee proceeded on its agenda item, as shown in the following
Committee Report which are incorporated herein by reference:
Bill No. 2423 A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE TO AMEND CHAPTER 6,
ARTICLE 14, KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED,
RELATING TO THE PUBLIC ACCESS, OPEN SPACE, AND
NATURAL RESOURCES PRESERVATION FUND [This item
was deferred.]
Mr. Rapozo moved to approve Bill No. 2423, seconded by Mr. Chang.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
MICHAEL DAHILIG, PLANNING DIRECTOR: Good morning Chair
Ij Nakamura, members of the Council, Mike Dahilig with the Planning Department. I
believe the Council may be in receipt of a memorandum dated February 28, 2012
relating to questions concerning the proposed Bill and I'm free to answer any
questions regarding the memorandum.
Committee Chair Nakamura: Thank you and we received this memo and
I'm sorry if you have not had a chance to... was it distributed ahead of time?
Mr. Furfaro: This morning.
Committee Chair Nakamura: This morning? Okay, sorry it wasn't sent to
you earlier. There are several questions that you responded to and I think maybe
since most people have not read it, maybe if you could walk us through some of the
responses?
Mr. Dahilig: Sure thing, Committee Chair. I guess the
first question was is there a limit to the number of terms a commission member can
serve? And currently a commission member can serve a maximum of three (3)
consecutive terms and terms are three (3) year terms.
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PLANNING COMMITTEE MARCH 7, 2012
The second question was concerning the one (1) appraisal that was
mentioned at the last Committee meeting and we just provided description
concerning the Hoban property, I believe... and this is the particular beach access
that an appraisal has been conducted and just to state that the appraisal was
actually was not done with County funds. It was done as a consequence of
Kukui`ula agreements.
The next one (1) was regarding the five percent (5%) administrative expenses
and we have an annual operating budget that's submitted to the Finance
Department along with the regular budget submittal. We included a copy of that
budget submittal, a sample of the budget submittal for the current fiscal year, as
attachment one'(1) to the correspondence.
The next one (1) is linked to the efficiency rate between contracting the work
and in-house work and our response to that was right now all commission duties are
conducted as an in-house work and Nani Sodora is our workhorse in that respect.
We did forward the priority recommendations to the Council as attachment
two (2). And then attachment number three (3) to answer question number six (6) is
really a commented version to the draft bill as to and this was how the... I guess
what the Commission came up with.
Question number seven (7) concerning implementation and what we're seeing
(inaudible) as proposed in the bill is the legwork that's associated with the actual
acquisition of these types of (inaudible) negotiations, contracting, appropriations,
those types and creating the actual due diligence bubbles that would be eventually
reviewed by the Council should appropriations be warranted out of the fund.
There was a question concerning of what would be the amount of money if it
was increased from a half percent to one percent. We're looking at about $814,700
and then the last question was concerning whether the annual reports would be,
rather than two (2) years, whether a three (3), triennial report would be more
appropriate and our response is that we're open to the idea of a triennial report, but
given the adjustments proposed from a one (1) year to a two (2) year, we would like
to see how those types of... how logistically and informational handling a pause
between years would maybe meet some of the concerns that have been raised about
having an annual report every year.
That's the extent of our response, Councilmember.
Committee Chair Nakamura: Thank you. Mike, if you could stay there.
Mr. Dahilig: Sure thing.
Committee Chair Nakamura: Is there any questions from Committee
members? Councilmember Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes, starting with the last point number nine
(9), how feasible would it be to implement a triennial report instead of a biennial
report? I just wanted to make sure we're clarifying that the priority setting would
be every three (3) years, but a report back on the activities and the
recommendations of the Open Space Commission could be done annually. So when
you answered the question here, what were you thinking of, because in terms of
triennial versus biennial reports and the different aspects to it.
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PLANNING COMMITTEE MARCH 7, 2012
Mr. Dahilig: I think we're kind of on the same wave
length, Councilmember, in the sense that we're talking about the full blown
evaluations.
Ms. Yukimura: Evaluations... I mean prioritization.
Mr. Dahilig: And we would be under the presumption
that there would still be an annual type of status regarding the commissions
activities and the department's activities with respect to Open Space.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay, thank you for that clarification. And
then on question number four (4), is it more cost efficient to perform any work
related to Open Space land acquisitions in-house-certainly not with respect to
appraisals and service?
Mr. Dahilig: That is correct, and I would guess in the
context of preparing the kind of due diligence or the research and those types of
things not associated with what we have to contract out professionally. We don't
have an assessor that does that kind of thing, but I think we're looking at it from a
standpoint of rather than hiring an attorney to look through and conduct due
diligence, where of a private title search firm would do those types of things, and a
lot of that legwork can be done upfront first before and as with anything when we
go through the actual contracting process, formal title searches would be contracted
as sometimes a part of escrow and title guarantee and those types of things. I think
we're looking at it from a legwork standpoint versus... but I certainly do understand
that we don't have the capacity to actually do a certified evaluation from a licensed
real property type of assessor.
Ms. Yukimura: I mean even title searches, you're not going
to go into escrow because you don't even know whether, I mean you might be doing
some of this before you even talk to the owner.
Mr. Dahilig: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: So to rely on escrow process isn't really
feasible, but I'm sure preliminary and simple title searches would be good, but
where you find a situation where it's very complex, then you might want to hire out,
right?
Mr. Dahilig: Certainly, we would want to reserve that
possibility. From a cost efficiency basis, we're lucky that we have good partnerships
with the Real Property Assessment Office where we can access through their
database and those types of things without having to do a title search order with
firms like TG or that type of things.
Ms. Yukimura: Right and in fact you're right that you would
go first to your in-house resources, outside of Planning but within the County.
Mr. Dahilig: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: A County Attorney or Real Property.
Mr. Dahilig: Yes.
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PLANNING COMMITTEE MARCH 7, 2012
Ms. Yukimura: And then if it's more complicated, looking at
going out.
Mr. Dahilig: We've been lucky that the County Attorney
that services the department has gotten training and is familiar with a lot of the
new types of title forms as we're proposing as part of the tool box for the
Commission, such as conservation easements and these types of things. It's
something that I think expansive-wise, we've been trying to get up to speed for in
anticipation that this legislation could possibly ask.
Ms. Yukimura: I find it interesting that in your 2010
acquisition, actually the second item is Po`ipu Beach Park expansion, which was
recently a discussion in the Council but I'm glad to see it on there. I do see the lists
do vary from year to year, and I think maybe that's one of your rationales for saying
that going to three (3) years might be too long, that a two (2) year trial might be
better.
Mr. Dahilig: Okay.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes, okay thank you.
Committee Chair Nakamura: Any other questions?
Mr. Rapozo: One (1) quick question.
Committee Chair Nakamura: Councilmember Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: Mike, question number six (7).
Mr. Dahilig: Sure.
Mr. Rapozo: You referred to attachment number three (3)
but attachment three (3) is just a copy of the bill. When you went through your
questions, you said there was a commented version but all we have... it's just a copy
of the draft bill. I think the request was for... am I looking at the wrong one?
Mr. Dahilig: My apologies, Councilmember, that this may
not have been copied in color.
Mr. Rapozo: I'm sorry.
Committee Chair Nakamura: The version that was copied may not have
been in color. So that might be the problem.
Mr. Dahilig: So just to maybe guide you, Councilmember,
if you look at the top of the second page, you'll see in kind of in a lighter gray in
parentheses some of the...
Mr. Rapozo: Mike, one day you're going to get as old as I
and your eyes won't work as good as they do now. Okay... that's fine, I do see the
color, I need the color version.
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PLANNING COMMITTEE MARCH 7, 2012
Committee Chair Nakamura: Staff, in the future I think the color version
would show up better for Councilmembers.
Mr. Rapozo: One (1) more.
Committee Chair Nakamura: Go ahead.
Mr. Rapozo: The training expense in your budget, this
would be in reference to the budget question.
Mr. Dahilig: Yes sir.
Mr. Rapozo: Number... exhibit one (1). They're showing
training expenses and registration and really aside from the associated expenses of
travel and per diem, there's 1875. What training do our Commissioners get as it
relates to open space? Are we making sure that they're getting the proper training
as far as this area? I don't know what the 1875, are you aware of what that is for?
Is that for one (1) training?
Mr. Dahilig: We use the training expense budget for both
staff and for Commission training. This particular line item did help pay for some
of the registration for the recent HCPO conference for some of the Commissioners to
attend on that respect. What we also do is that we have some staff to research,
again as I mentioned earlier, this issue of different types of (inaudible) and how to
create these forms of easements and trying to get the staff up to date on that.
Committee Chair Nakamura: And HCPO is Hawai`i Congress of Planning
Officials, it's an annual conference.
Mr. Rapozo: Well okay, I guess as we see Commission
appointees come up for interviews, it's oftentimes they're in my opinion not getting
the training that they need. I think there's a lot of training offered in this area
especially because we get all the flyers here from all of these trainings throughout
the State, relatively inexpensive, but it covers areas such as open space and land
acquisitions and easements. I'm not saying that we need to send all the
Commissioners to all of the training, but I think we need to get some sort of plan to
get our Commissioners trained. At the end of the day it's really the Commissioners
that are tasked with making the decisions, and the staff person supports them. It
shouldn't be the tail wagging the dog, it should be the Commissioners having at
least the basic knowledge making what we are eligible for, there's a lot of
opportunities in grants and so forth that I think our Commissioners should be
trained on, and that's what I think that five percent (5%)... because if you look at
registrations 1875, everything else was for travel, and I'm not sure how many of our
Commissioners actually travel, but and maybe they cannot travel but I think if they
are able to, we should have some level of expertise within the Commission by our
Commissioners, and I'm speaking of all Commissions not just open space. We
should really be trying to encourage our Commissioners to get informed on... and
I've attended a couple of them in past years and it's usually held or put on by
attorneys because all of these things really affect the legal aspect of going out and
trying to get some access, open access lands. So just food for thought. I really
would encourage the department to consider that, just so we can get our
Commissioners up to speed on a lot of the issues that would help. I look at this list,
the list of recommendations and it's got to be extremely frustrating for those
Commissioners from 2005 the Hoban property and it moves from primary to
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secondary and I see one of them that I'm extremely interested in is the Kauapea,
Secret Beach access, I think that's one that we should be going after. Again I think
the Commissioners should have some level of understanding of the law and what's
available to them so we can start moving forward rather than just having
discussions.
Mr. Dahilig: Okay, suggestion well taken.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you.
Committee Chair Nakamura: Thank you and just to follow up on that
point, I would really encourage using some of the funds to bring in some of the
speakers so that every Commissioner on that Commission can be exposed to some of
the cutting edge thinking about conservation easements or possible grant
opportunities or just tools that... you know how open space is being dealt with
nationally, so that's another option. I think that's a good point Councilmember
Rapozo brought up. I also wanted to... I think that attachment that you provided
that shows the prior year's priority recommendations were really helpful to me. It
shows that Hoban has been on the list for five (5) straight years, it shows that Black
Pot has been on the list for four (4) straight years, along with Kaneiolouma, and
part of that was with Nukumoi. There are others that have been on the list for
three (3) straight years, Kauapea, Papa`a, Salt Pond, and Mahaulepu, and so it's
telling me and in between there's some of them appear once and maybe twice, but
these are the ones that have been consistently on the list and placing high on the
list. It tells me that there's some sense of priority and that we should be in the mode
of executing rather than creating more lists and so I think the amendment that will
be introduced today helps us to get there, and so we'll get more into that discussion
when it's introduced. Councilmember Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you. I just want to add a slightly
different angle on the use of training moneys. Just building on what
Councilmember Nakamura has said about the list showing really a lack of
movement, which I think is in part due to lack of moneys, but the other part is due
to lack of putting the deal together, and based on my experience with the Kaua`i
Public Land Trust, that's where it happens. Usually it's the staff that does that, not
the Commissioners, although they can help, so I actually believe that most of the
training should go to staff whether it's how you craft a conservation easement, how
you negotiate, what are the different options for crafting a deal that everybody can
accept and move, how you untangle cloudy easements, or you know... that's a lot of
staff work and so it's not one (1) or the other, it's training for both, but I'll tell you
where the movement will come, it's in the supporting of staff work to put the deals
together. That's my thoughts on it.
Committee Chair Nakamura: And I would add project management.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes.
Committee Chair Nakamura: Chair Furfaro.
Mr. Furfaro: Thank you Chairwoman. Mike, my question
is going to be focused on... has the Commission had an opportunity to be given a
presentation on the various financial opportunities that they need to make some
decisions along with this Council on our financial plan for open space and our
ability to borrow? For example, I said this many times before, but at today's
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PLANNING COMMITTEE MARCH 7, 2012
interest rates before we raise the half percent to one percent, we could in fact find
ourselves borrowing against the four hundred thousand, we could borrow upfront
six point three million dollars, right up front. They have a pot of money where this
half percent is tied to a financial cash picture that today will borrow us immediately
six point three million dollars, okay. Second part of the financial picture is if we're
going to execute a purchase within a thirty-six month period, we could be
approaching or the Commission could be approaching the Council and the
Administration maybe to put three million in a Bond figure, and they have to be for
the most urgent and potential acquisitions. So putting those two (2) pictures
together, I'm saying that it wouldn't hurt to have the Commission have an
opportunity to hear about a financial plan that would help us with acquisition,
because I think as Vice Chair Yukimura said, one (1) of the problems we're having
right now and as Chairwoman Nakamura suggested with this jockeying for
positions, the fact of the matter is we need to see if there's a way that we can
leverage our ability to borrow with specifics in mind. Has there ever been a
financial presentation to the Commissioners about what options are available to
them?
Mr. Dahilig: To the degree that you're describing, I'm not
completely certain.
Committee Chair Nakamura: Jean, can you come up and take a seat and
maybe you can help address this question.
JEAN SOUZA: Good morning, I'm Commissioner Jean
Souza, I'm with the Open Space Commission.
Mr. Furfaro: Jean, you have heard this question from me
before, but I'm asking has the Administration been invited to make a presentation
to the Commission about your financial options?
Ms. Souza: Not recently. My recollection is that you
actually had come over...
Mr. Furfaro: I made a presentation.
Ms. Souza: Quite a few years ago actually.
Mr. Furfaro: Four (4) years ago about this subject.
Ms. Souza: Yes, and I believe that is the only time that
we've had a presentation on that. I wanted to point out that many of the
Commissioners from that time have left, and so I would say that most of the
Commissioners currently are not aware of that.
Mr. Furfaro: Well Mike, I would ask that you might want
to invite Wally to explore some of these possibilities and I think that would give us
more influence in then replenishing the funds with the other half percent if we're
able to commit the four hundred thousand a year for say a period of twenty-five
years. We can immediately borrow up to six point three million for acquisition of
assets. We can also see if we could look at another two or three million in a form of
the next bond float, but that money has to be spent reasonably quick and there has
to be a very, very good financial plan represented to the Bond Counsel. Those are
two (2) items I wanted to say that should be part of the whole financial picture if
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PLANNING COMMITTEE MARCH 7, 2012
one of the considerations is to go to one percent, but it certainly would help in
deflecting some of the frustrations by not having. The County has, the Mayor,
Wally, others in the financial picture, our treasurer, myself, we have a reasonably
good financial picture and we should maybe take advantage of it here. If I may, I
have a couple other questions?
Committee Chair Nakamura: Go right ahead.
Mr. Furfaro: Jean, give me a little bit of an idea here, at
the Heiau complex in Po`ipu, did the Nukumoi site just kind of move up or has it
always been a part of the Heiau preservation plan? I see over the years how we
acquired pieces of the complex but I'm not sure I quite understand. Is Nukumoi the
number priority? Or are they two (2) separate items?
Ms. Souza: My understanding is that the Nukumoi
property is part of the complex.
Mr. Furfaro: Can be part of the complex, yes.
Ms. Souza: Most of the... conceptually and culturally it's
part of the complex.
Mr. Furfaro: No, no. I understand that but we're dealing
in western terms now, in a financial picture it's a completely different owner.
Ms. Souza: That's correct.
Mr. Furfaro: And so I'm trying to find out how we
separate the two (2) if need be, because the reality is some of the Bond money might
be used for something like that, separate, and with a separate appraisal. It is
something for you folks to consider.
Ms. Souza: Well the other properties are either owned
by the County or by the State.
Mr. Furfaro: Yes, we understand that.
Ms. Souza: So this is, I believe, the only privately-owned
one and it's important in terms of the complex because it is the traditional entrance
to the area and it serves as a site for potential interpretation of the site and
welcoming and just preparation to enter into the site.
Mr. Furfaro: No, I clearly understand that, Jean. I don't
think you... the Planning Commission has heard me, when we're talking on the
financial picture.
Ms. Souza: Yes.
Mr. Furfaro: The State pieces, the County pieces, we have
ownership of that and...
Ms. Souza: That's right.
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PLANNING COMMITTEE MARCH 7, 2012
Mr. Furfaro: ...and in fact have had concessions from the
State. I'm just saying that we need to move on the estimates of the acquisitions of
Nukumoi as if it's a separate piece from a financial picture, not from the culture
values, which are so important, but from the financial picture, and I just wanted to
share that. I have two (2) more pieces and then I'll sit back, because I'm not on the
Committee. The Kauapea piece, does the Planning Department have the logistical
metes and bounds for the access in that area and when was the last time that it was
updated?
Mr. Dahilig: I may want to refer that question to the
Deputy County Attorney who handles the matter.
Mr. Furfaro: Mr. Jung, I'll repeat the question as it deals
with Kauapea Beach. Do we have something that's recently been done on the metes
and bounds to describe that particular access?
IAN JUNG, DEPUTY COUNTY ATTORNEY: Good morning Committee
Chair and members of the Council, Deputy County Attorney Ian Jung. Are you
relating to what's referred to as the western access or the eastern access?
Mr. Furfaro: Actually both. The western access is the
piece closest to the bay itself, and the eastern is closer towards the long stretch of
beach that faces the lighthouse.
Mr. Jung: Right. The western access there was, I think
it was in 2005 this Council and Mayor Kusaka renegotiated it, a specific path which
was accepted by Public Works; it ultimately got the formal Grant of Easement by
the Council at that time. So there is a specific metes and bounds description for
that particular piece, for the western. But regarding the eastern access, it's an issue
that's going to be before the Planning Commission relatively soon.
Mr. Furfaro: Okay.
Mr. Jung: We've been researching it and trying to
identify what was the original intent of the subdivision back in... and this is the
Kilauea Gardens Subdivision back in 1978. An SMA was issued in 1979 of the
project and so we're evaluating that and looking at what the original developer, not
the current landowner, had intended for that particular trail easement that was
noted on the file map's plans.
Mr. Furfaro: Okay.
Mr. Jung: So it likely will become somewhat of a legal
battle, but I kind of want to leave that issue there for now. So there is no specific
metes and bounds description that we're aware of at this point for the eastern
access.
Mr. Furfaro: Okay. So on that legal challenge, there
hasn't been any further work done and I'm going to reference it as the eastern
access to Kauapea since the 2005 piece was resolved?
Mr. Jung: Well I've been working on it now getting
some documents prepped up and have been in discussions with the former... the
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PLANNING COMMITTEE MARCH 7, 2012
property's recently been sold but with the former landowner's attorney; they're
aware that it's an issue.
Mr. Furfaro: I see. Okay, do you need any financial help
from the Council or is it yet to be determined?
Mr. Jung: It's yet to be determined, and I do have two
(2) strategies which I don't want to lay out on the table now, but we'll be
approaching...
Mr. Furfaro: I wasn't asking for the strategy, I just
wanted to make sure because there is two (2) different pieces here when we say
Kauapea.
Mr. Jung: Correct.
Mr. Furfaro: It's interpreted in the community as two (2)
different pieces. Then the last piece and this might be for Mike and not the
attorneys, are we giving any consideration to doing a geological survey as it relates
to Salt Pond and the salt ponds themselves? To understand the technical and
geological aspects of how the salt pans work for the people and having an
understanding of the geological and Mother Nature as a whole when they produce
this asset of the community. Is there any consideration of doing a geological survey?
Mr. Dahilig: It's a great question, Chair, and it's
something that maybe in-house we can take back and as part of the due diligence
work we can make contact with the University of Hawai`i Science and Technology
maybe try to use their resources to assist us on that item.
Mr. Furfaro: Okay, I would encourage you folks to probe
that with the University of Hawai`i because obviously this is a one of a kind asset
and it wouldn't hurt us to understand the geology that delivers such a special
product to our island community by understanding the science behind it. May I
make that request as a consideration?
Mr. Dahilig: Sure, certainly.
Mr. Furfaro: Okay. Committee Chairwoman, thank you
for the time.
Committee Chair Nakamura: Thank you very much for raising those
options with the Commission to look at possible floating of the bonds and potential
CIP bond request, so thank you very much. Councilmember Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you. Mike, under 6-14.3 I believe it's
on page four (4), we had some discussion at the last meeting, section "c" and "e"
regarding the private owner and funds that may be appropriated to private owners,
can you just expand a little bit. I'm going to be introducing an amendment to this
and I'm just debating whether it will stay in or stay out. Can you help me on that
and I did read your commentary and it wasn't that clear for me, but I guess for me if
you can cite an example or... not so much a specific but a hypothetical where it
would help the County and the Commission move forward.
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PLANNING COMMITTEE MARCH 7, 2012
Mr. Dahilig: Thanks for the question, Councilmember,
and it really is a consequence of hypothetical at this point when we're looking at the
tools that possibly by policy could be provided to the Commission for its work.
When we say private landowner, we're looking at a situation where there maybe not
an eleemosynary type of group that's the 501(c)3, but let's say a philanthropist that
may hold that conservation easement over a property, and so somebody that's
maybe a very wealthy philanthropist may say okay I'm going to put a million
dollars in the pot if you match me with five hundred thousand dollars, and I'll hold
it in perpetuity as the holder of this conservation easement. Those are the types
of... Traditionally it's been done with 506(c)3 and it's been done with NGO's, but we
do get some sense that people that are looking for means of furthering their own
personal interest and protecting lands that possibility may come up, and so that's
the hypothetical we were trying to address.
Mr. Rapozo: And we're relatively sure that we can protect
that transaction into perpetuity?
Mr. Dahilig: It's not something that is novel and so the
idea is not coming out of... we are aware that there is a possibility but it's how the
documents are drawn up. If it's held by the private entity and the government
agency also is signatory to that agreement, then there would be some levels of
protection, but it really comes as a consequence of how the document is drawn up
and who has the right to enforce and those types of things.
Mr. Rapozo: I saw you, Ian, you have anything to add?
Mr. Jung: I just wanted to give an example. When we
did the Black Pot transaction and we got moneys from the State Legacy Lands Fund
because we were concurrent... we were entities, parties going in to get this piece of
property. But for the County of Kaua`i to hold, and this was a fee simple piece
right, for County to hold title, we had to enter into what's referred to as a grant
agreement. We had to essentially assign that we will intend this piece of property
to be as open space in perpetuity and if the County ever did sell the property or
dispose of its interest, then we would have to repay the State of Hawaii the grant
funds that we got. So there are protective measures that we can institute within
the department themselves for such grants like this in regards to the
agreements,and then deed restrictions and covenants and whatnot.
Committee Chair Nakamura: Do you have other questions?
Mr. Rapozo: That's it, thank you.
Committee Chair Nakamura: Councilmember Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: I think those deed restrictions against the
County or a non-profit are very different than against the private owner. Give me
an example of a deed restriction against a private owner that wasn't a non-profit. A
real live example.
Mr. Jung: As far as I have seen, I haven't seen any.
Ms. Yukimura: I haven't either and I don't think we should
risk allowing it unless you show us a working model.
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Mr. Jung: Okay and it is a policy call for this body to
make in terms because you're looking ultimately this body will make the decision,
because the Commission serves as an advisory body to the Council in making this
decision of which type of property to get and which specific type of property to
acquire right, whether it's in fee or by conservation easement. The model, when we
went to a recent training, Nani Sodora and myself, about conservation easement,
this idea was put onto the books in terms of look these are options where single
owners will want to purchase pieces of property, impose conservation easements,
and be the conservation easement holder, but it all comes down to... the devil is
literally in the details about how it's negotiated. Could there be consequences, yes.
Could there be benefits, yes.
Committee Chair Nakamura: Do we have, although we may not have a
local example of a conservation easement held by a private land owner, are there
other State or national examples?
Mr. Jung: I'm sure we could... I mean I could dig up my
own materials to see if there's any specific examples, but the attorney who's doing
the presentation discussed that option. But if the comfort level is not here for the
Council at this point, then it's really up to you guys.
Committee Chair Nakamura: Well the comfort level for me is not there
only because I don't know if I have enough information to make a decision. So I
think I would like to know where situations like this have occurred in the past and
how it may have been handled and what are some of the potential downsides,
upside and downsides of pursuing it? If it is a tool that has been used in other
places successfully. Councilmember Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: In this work and I've seen it often is the
landowner who wants a conservation easement for his own purposes to lower his
taxes, to get some open space so his view's not changed, and what you have to watch
for from these individuals that come up to you and say please help me do a
conservation easement is the self-dealing. That's the danger of it, and that's why I
don't think there are many examples if any, and if you have those examples, you
have to see how they work long term when you change ownership, I mean I don't
know what happens with all of those cases. They have to work long term and also
you're trusting the public officials to really do the devil in the details to make sure
that it's not flawed and to me the risks are not worth it. We should just be doing
the ones where it's very secure in terms of protecting the public interest long term.
To me you're playing with fire to go into these areas that haven't been tested long
term, but I may be wrong, maybe there is somewhere an example that it really
works for the purpose of public conservation, but you really have to watch it.
Committee Chair Nakamura: Thank you Councilmember Yukimura for the
words of warning. Councilmember Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: No, I'm not sure if how time sensitive this is
and I plan to introduce the amendment once we get back into order and then we can
have the discussion and whatever the Chair wants to do, I'll definitely support.
Committee Chair Nakamura: Before we do that... you have a few more
questions? Okay, Councilmember Yukimura.
a v
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PLANNING COMMITTEE MARCH 7, 2012
Ms. Yukimura: Okay thank you. I thought we were just
staying on this topic but if we can go to others. Question for the attorney on
Kauapea Beach east, because you said Kauapea Beach west has pretty much been
finalized or settled right?
Mr. Jung: Correct.
Ms. Yukimura: I remember Greg Kamm working on that
and the Administration to get that finalized. The zoning condition as I recall had us
going off a cliff and the new easement that is finalized was one that was negotiable
by foot. So that's an example of how our early zoning conditions were so vague and
so unchecked, they haven't been researched that they were unworkable, and I think
the Kauapea west has become workable now. It is an example of a successful
resolution of a problem access. Now the east, is that what used to be Garfinkle
property?
Mr. Jung: Correct.
Ms. Yukimura: And he has sold that property or is he still
the owner?
Mr. Jung: From what I understand and I haven't seen
and this is just from talking with the attorney that it has been sold.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. I'm really glad you're researching
that. I just wanted for my own mind to know which one it was. And then I have a
question for Commissioner Souza. Jean just to clarify on the Kaneiolouma, the only
acquisition piece of that project is the Nukumoi right because as you pointed out,
State and County owns the rest of the complex. So being able to acquire that
Nukumoi piece would really complete our acquisition desires and would allow us to
have the land we need
to actually develop that site into that vision that the
community has of a restored cultural preserve that can be used for interpretation
Y P p
and education and so forth, okay. I think the Chair in speaking of the financial
piece was talking about some of the work for the fencing and development of the
site, cultural development of the site but it's not an acquisition issue? As far as
acquisition is concerned, it's the Nukumoi? Is that right?
Ms. Souza: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay, okay. Thank you. Just to understand
your lists, my understanding is they are not prioritized as one, two, three, four, five
work on the first one first, the second one second, and the third one third, but
whichever one breaks or becomes where the deal is made and there's a willing
owner and you have a deal, that's the one that is to be funded right? Or are your
acquisitions, do this first, do this second... do this third...
Ms. Souza: Over the years we've tried a number of
different ways of presenting the recommendations to you.
Ms. Yukimura: I can see that.
Ms. Souza: So sometimes we try one (1) way and it
doesn't seem to get a response, so we try a different way, we try to word it a
different way... your sequential...
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PLANNING COMMITTEE MARCH 7, 2012
Ms. Yukimura: Priority?
Ms. Souza: Priority has been tried in subsequent... in
other years. This year which you haven't gotten the report yet, I don't think... the
report that has just been completed, that has priority order and usually we know
that someone is working on the higher priority ones, so we want to send a message
to you and to the Administration that we think it's important too and we want to
support it. Now let's understand the situation as it has been. Up to now, there has
been only one (1) project that has been approved. Although we have many
aspirations of which one should go forward, realistically we're not encouraged that
it will be sequential, so it's primarily to send a message to you that number one (1)
it's more important than maybe number five (5), but the fact that it's on that
priority list means that of all the sites on Kaua`i, these are our top five (5) or six (6)
or ten (10) or whatever it happened to be. Now the current report that will... it's
either on your desk or is soon to be on your desk.
Ms. Yukimura: I haven't seen it.
Ms. Souza: It's divided up into acquisition priorities and
other recommendations, and the reason we have that is the other recommendations
propose some other actions other than just land acquisition and so it depends.
Ms. Yukimura: Well thank you. I can see that so much
thought has... through the years has gone into how to craft these lists and how to
communicate them to the County. I just want to share, on the Kaua'i Public Land
Trust Board because we had an acquisition list or priority list, we had actually a set
of criteria by which we judged any proposal, willing owner, cost, urgency, top
natural reserve in the natural areas qualities and so forth. We ranked them by
numbers, but we ended up just having a list because we never knew which was
going to break first. In the issue of Hanalei Hodge property, I mean at one (1) point
it was really low on our list because they had put construction fences up and they
were going to build in the heat, and then the economy fell and all of a sudden selling
a property and the owner was open to talking to us, so things just change from year
to year, and so we learn not to set hard priorities but to have a general list and
then to see which one broke first. We had several often times had four (4) or five (5)
in the fire trying to track them.
Ms. Souza: I can't speak for the other commissioners on
it, but we did have a ranking discussion on it, and so we like the idea you have on
the soft priorities. I think the commission would be happy if anyone of...
Ms. Yukimura: On the list?
Ms. Souza: ...top ones on the list, from any of the prior
years really was acted upon.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes.
Ms. Souza: But what is it? The former Hoban property
resolution that is before you, that was submitted as a way to try to implement a set
of recommendations. So we have a set of list... we have a list that we send to you.
You will be seeing from us periodic submittals saying please give us or please
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PLANNING COMMITTEE MARCH 7, 2012
approve this because we would like to do or we think the following things could be
done to acquire it.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes.
Ms. Souza: So that was one of the first ones, I think
you'll be seeing a couple more coming also on that.
Ms. Yukimura: I think we understand that there may need
to be Council action at different points in time, even on the condemnation for the
Sheehan properties, that you needed some Council direction and authorization in
order to proceed.
Ms. Souza: That's right.
Ms. Yukimura: So that makes sense.
Ms. Souza: Yes, because we're purely advisory.
Ms. Yukimura: Right.
Ms. Souza: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you very much.
Committee Chair Nakamura: Any further questions? Can we have the
County Attorney back? Ian, thanks for being here. One of the questions that came
up previously at this Committee was if we were to change the amount allocated to
the Open Space Fund, can that be done in this bill or should it be done in a separate
bill? Can you respond to that question?
Mr. Jung: Sure it goes to the issue of substantial
change right?
Committee Chair Nakamura: Yes.
Mr. Jung: Whether or not the original purpose is not
necessarily... or the new proposal is not necessarily germane to the original
purpose. I think given we're stretching our legs here pretty far through the process,
we already held the public hearing, to change the original content of the bill to
include the elevated level certified real property tax revenue, I think that should
probably go in a separate bill. And the only reason for that is that the intent of this
bill is to clarify the role of the commissioners and how they get input from public
and take action on certain things. So I would suggest to the body that it be done in
a subsequent bill.
Committee Chair Nakamura: Thank you. Any other questions then? If
not, we'll come back to our...
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as
follows:
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PLANNING COMMITTEE MARCH 7, 2012
Mr. Rapozo moved to amend Bill No. 2423 as circulated, as shown in the
Floor Amendment which is attached hereto as Attachment 1, seconded by
Mr. Chang.
Committee Chair Nakamura: Thank you.
Mr. Rapozo: Really some of the items here are being
submitted by the request of the Administration and some are by request of the
Planning Committee. I think most of it has been explained by the Administration,
by the Planning Department as well as the County Attorney. The only one that I
think that was discussed was the private owner in section 6-14.3 "c" and "e," and
this amendment would remove that private owner language from the section. I
think Councilmember Yukimura, you painted a pretty realistic picture of what
could happen, the fact that the landowner designates a conservation easement on
his property doesn't make that property public; it just puts that conservation layer
on it. The Charter does really specify this is a public access, open space, natural
resources preservation fund, I think the intent was to create more areas of open
access for the public... and not... and I understand the example and I think
Councilmember Yukimura has a very valid concern that I share. It is an
opportunity for private landowners to use public money to create a conservation
district or a conservation easement on their property and yet retain the private
rights to that property; that is a possibility, devil is always in the details. I'm not
comfortable at all so my amendment would really be to remove that from the
proposed amendments. That's it, do you have any questions regarding the
amendment? Section 6-14.2, the highlighted areas are the areas that are being
proposed. If you look at the first one under 6-14.2 subsection four (4) that is a
housekeeping item that clarifies the appointment process. I think it's vital that
they be allowed to operate even if they don't have that final member. We talked
about the biennial or triennial list, the project list, this amendment will require a
biennial list; however, it will require a annual report for the Mayor and the Council
review and that will include the accomplishments, challenges, future goals and
objectives, and recommendations.
Committee Chair Nakamura: Any discussion on this amendment? Thank
you Councilmember Rapozo.
Mr. Chang: I would like to.
Committee Chair Nakamura: Yes Councilmember Chang.
Mr. Chang: Thank you Councilmember Rapozo for
introducing these amendments and thank you Councilmember Yukimura for
painting a very realistic picture on how the homeowner can work on their
advantage, so thank you on behalf of the public for keeping us aware of that and
reminding us that sometimes things do happen in those ways. So thank you.
Thank you, Chair.
Committee Chair Nakamura: Any other comments? Councilmember
Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes, I know Councilmember Nakamura that
you have been working on these, and so I want to thank you also, and the
Commission and Planning Department for proposing the bill because I think the
more we get a clear and workable law and framework, the more we can get the job
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PLANNING COMMITTEE MARCH 7, 2012
done on this very important issue. I look forward to a new bill that will increase the
percentage that we allocate and set aside because lack of funding is one of the
issues as well. I'm very pleased with the progress of this and I think this is good
work, I'll be voting for it.
Committee Chair Nakamura: For myself, I feel I have incomplete
information, especially on this issue of private ownership. I believe the open space
or some of the open commissioners wanted to have some flexibility, but I don't
understand what the implications of that flexibility are and I don't have a good
grasp on if there are any successful models of private ownership with conservation
easements. I would like to request the Committee members for a deferral so I can
get that information. That would help me and I don't believe it's a time sensitive
bill, but I think once I can get access to that information, I will be able to move
forward and other than that, I'm pretty comfortable with this. The only other issue
that I would have some concern with is the biennial, I'm willing to go that way but I
still think a triennial approach might be better and I want to explain my reasoning
here. Over the past five (5) years, the Open Space Commission has had one (1)
staff member, and the role of the staff person has been to guide the Commission by
creating their one (1) and only authorized Charter objective to create this list. In
that five (5) year period, they have done an excellent job in going out to the different
communities on this island, to get feedback, to identify potential acquisition areas,
areas of concern, areas of opportunities, to open up public access and opportunities,
and so to me a very sad commentary that we have only this five (5) year process has
produced one (1) project, one (1) acquisition that involved outsourcing to a non-
profit to make the deal happen. My thinking is that if we focus the staff attention
away from this public process of creating lists and focus into project management,
collaborating with other non-profits, collaborating with potential landowners... if we
focus that time and attention away from all these meetings that the commission has
and into the project management mode of delivering some products for this County,
that it's a better use of our staff resources, that's my thinking. It seems like it will
be an adjustment, but I think to me if we can start checking off this list and say we
have accomplished this, this, and this, then I would feel better but to continue to
spend staff resources on producing lists that just gets repeated year after year, to
me that's not a good use of public money. Councilmember Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes, thank you. I understand what you're
saying and I agree with you and I'm thinking that maybe there's a hybrid that we
can use. Your concern is that all the energy spent every year to come up with
basically the same list, could be better spent in actually getting the deals done and
doing the research and I really agree with that point. What if we had lists made
every three (3) years but an amendment process that's allowed if there's somebody
initiates a new piece that should be added to the priority list because all of a sudden
there's a proposal to develop a wetland or something and you realize the urgency of
saving it. So somebody comes and so there's a way but requires less time and only
upon initiation from the public or from the commission to add but otherwise the list
stays the same for three (3) years,
Committee Chair Nakamura: Okay.
Ms. Yukimura: And...
Committee Chair Nakamura: I believe that...
Ms. Yukimura: It allows that right now?
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PLANNING COMMITTEE MARCH 7, 2012
Committee Chair Nakamura: I think Councilmember Rapozo's amendment
allows that on page three (3), subsection "c" under recommendations. We could
refine that to say amendment two (2), recommended list.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. So I'm just talking in a conceptual
way what if we did that, so we'd go with a three (3) year, but allow for urgencies or
exceptions to be brought forth during that three (3) year period. The other thing I
wanted to say on your first point about conservation easements, there are
thousands of working models of conservation easements on private land that is not
the issue. The issue is with giving money to a private owner. Funds may be
appropriated to another government entity, a private owner to acquire an interest,
because in the case where there is a conservation easement on private land which
has a public conservation purpose, the holder is a third party, the holder of the
easement is not the private owner who owns the land. It's someone; it's a third
party who watches to make sure that the conditions of the covenant are followed.
So otherwise you have the fox watching the hens sort of speak and that's what I'm
concerned about, that the private owner would be the holder of the conservation
easement.
Committee Chair Nakamura: Okay.
Ms. Yukimura: To me there's not enough of an arm's length
and there's not enough protection. At least with a non-profit there's State laws
which require that they have a public purpose and there's certain things they have
to file, and so I don't think there's those protections for just a private owner and
that's my concern.
Committee Chair Nakamura: Thank you for making that clarification.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes. So there are a lot of lands are protected
by conservation easements over private land but those easements are held and
enforced by the holder of the easement which is usually, from my knowledge,
always separate from the owner of that private land.
Committee Chair Nakamura: Okay.
Ms. Yukimura: So I just wanted to add that information.
Committee Chair Nakamura: Thank you very much. Councilmember
Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you. First of all as far as this bill will
set the requirement for the triennial or biennial report but I think the Commission
rules would dictate how you address the amendments and so forth. I don't think
that needs to be on our bill, that's how you want to handle it. Because in the
current language of the amendment, and by the way the amendment was created by
Committee Chair Nakamura, so we got to give credit where credit is due. She
cannot introduce the amendment because she's the Chair, so I'm doing it as a
request of her but I fully support the amendment. So I don't believe we need to
touch that; I think that's something that the Commission deals with as far as
amendments how you want to deal with the public process; I think you already
established that in your current practices. After hearing the discussion today and
comments from the members, I'm even leaning more towards a triennial, because
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PLANNING COMMITTEE MARCH 7, 2012
you'll give the commission three (3) years to work on list and I think what Mr. Chair
talked about earlier with the leveraging of funds, I think all of those tools need to be
incorporated into this process. So that when the list does come to the Council and
the Mayor, there's a mechanism that had been discussed as options. Right now with
four hundred thousand dollars, to think that we're going to buy any of those
recommendations, I think it's not going to happen. With the financial opportunity
or option that the Chair discussed this morning, that creates a little more
opportunity; now with six million dollars, I think we have an opportunity to have
something behind the recommendation. So I think the three (3) year process is
probably one that's better because you have an opportunity to explore financing
opportunities, do an appraisal, and all of that, so when the list comes, it's actually
backed by some data. I'm going to support the deferral obviously because I think we
need to get that information. The easement issue, the conservation easement issue,
that's one that I'm battling with again. I think if you read the Charter it kind of
specifies the use of these funds and it really is for public benefit and I guess you
could stretch it to say it's the habitat of some long-legged bird or something but in
essence what you're doing, you're allowing a private owner to come to the County,
get taxpayer funds to preserve that open area fronting the house. I think that's the
downside of it, and I do believe the County still has some opportunities at the
permitting level to force these landowners to create conservation easements for the
purpose of conservation, private conservation. In other words, fine you want to build
this house, you want to zone your property, you put a conservation district and you
can keep as private as you want. But I think with the public space money, if they're
going to be getting public space money, then it has to be public, it has to be open,
the public has to be able to get some benefit. I'm a little troubled with that, I do
appreciate Mr. Jung's comment that if we're not comfortable at this point, it's okay.
Because if a situation arises in the future, we have a philanthropist that... and first
of all, if a philanthropist is a true philanthropist, he isn't going to ask the County
for money. But if we did have that scenario, it wouldn't be difficult for this Council
to amend the law at that point, and to make sure that would work. I think that's
the safest direction to take because the fear of the unknown and no disrespect to the
attorneys, but for every restriction that an attorney can put into a document, there's
an attorney that can unwind it and that is my fear. Those are my comments; again I
will support the deferral. I'm not sure, Chair, if you want us to vote on the
amendment and then defer the original bill as amended, or did you want me to
withdraw my motion for this amendment?
Mr. Furfaro: Correction. You probably should withdraw
the amendment at this point and start over.
Mr. Rapozo: Because a deferral would leave the motion
hanging.
Ms. Yukimura: That's right, then we could come back with
another amendment.
Mr. Rapozo: Whatever your preference, Chair Nakamura.
I mean it wouldn't be a problem for me because I anticipate maybe changing the
amendment, and what I don't want to do is have to amend the amendment that just
creates a lot of stress for our staff.
Mr. Rapozo withdrew his motion to amend Bill No. 2423, Mr. Chang
withdrew his second.
20
PLANNING COMMITTEE MARCH 7, 2012
Committee Chair Nakamura: Thank you. Now we're back to the main bill.
So I just wanted to point out as I think about the discussion around the bond float, I
think one of the early concerns of the Commission, and Jean please correct me if I'm
wrong, is that there was a discussion about using the annual allocation to do a Bond
Float that would generate upfront cash that they could then use to acquire
properties, and then the concern was, okay then for the next twenty (20) years,
we're not going to have any funds to then allocate. I think what the Chair brought
up today is the possibility of other sources of funding such as CIP and others as
another source that I think wasn't in the picture at that time. I think that was one
of the concerns is if we use it all up now then there's really nothing for us to work
with. Chair Furfaro and then...
Mr. Furfaro: Maybe you should go to your Committee
members first.
Committee Chair Nakamura: Committee member Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: My experience is that you always, and most
always need to piece together the financing from a variety of sources, which if I
may, was one of the reasons I wanted to add that to the bond list, I mean the Po`ipu
Beach expansion to the bond list, because I know even though it was Legacy lands,
it was Parks money, and then it was CIP money, and there's others, there's water
land conservation money and private donations and so forth. That's part of putting
the deal together and so a large part of, like when Kaua`i Public Land Trust was
doing some of the work, was applying for those moneys and trying to make sure we
could get them. To think that we would spend all of our open space moneys on one
(1) piece of property is not real cost effective.
Committee Chair Nakamura: Thank you. Chair Furfaro.
Mr. Furfaro: I just want to clarify again. I would like
Planning to invite Finance to speak with the Commissioners so that they
understand those options, and for some of you, that we go back and revisit our
leveraging and that's the key here. Obviously the initial float would be for about a
twenty-five (25) year period, but let's say six (6) years into the program, we
refinance a bond, then that relieves those funds again because now it's a new
General Obligation and not tied to the incremental piece. But to go through those
types of details, I think would benefit the Commission.
Committee Chair Nakamura: Councilmember Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: After your last commentary regarding the
staffing, is it possible to get Mike back up.
Committee Chair Nakamura: Sure.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Mr. Rapozo: It's more of a procedural question as far as
how the Commission is structured right now and what staffing or support services
they have if in fact as we roll into the budget process. How is it set up right now?
How does the Commission get their support?
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PLANNING COMMITTEE MARCH 7, 2012
Mr. Dahilig: We have one (1) dedicated Planner, which is
Nani that's in the audience, and her full-time job is to service the Commission as
well as provide research and other types of draft and support in that level. We also
have a commission clerk that handles all the minutes and other administrative
matters for the Commission and that's Duke Nakamatsu. So we have two (2)
employed for this Commission.
Mr. Rapozo: So you have one (1) full-time dedicated
Planner? Is that what you said?
Mr. Dahilig: Yes.
Mr. Rapozo: And so that person just strictly open space?
Mr. Dahilig: Yes.
Mr. Rapozo: And then Duke Nakamatsu, you said he's a
commissions clerk so he...
Mr. Dahilig: Yes.
Mr. Rapozo: Again, only assigned to open space?
Mr. Dahilig: Yes. Their meeting schedule is pretty
intense and they meet twice a month between three (3) to five (5) hours a meeting.
It's almost from a logistical standpoint it's similar to what they have to provide for
the Planning Commission based on their workload.
Mr. Rapozo: Is that enough?
Mr. Dahilig: I think at this point it is sufficient and if we
were to look at the legislation pending before the Council at this point, there would
be some adjustment, but based on the adjustments provided that we should be able
to handle the change in the workload, and if not, then we'll certainly raise that up
the flag pole if there's a concern.
Mr. Rapozo: So what is the biggest problem, if it's not
staffing and it's... Sounds like everything is in order. Obviously funding is one (1),
but is there any other obstacles to getting some of these projects completed? Nadine
talked a lot about the five (5) year, what... If it's not staffing then it's obviously
something else.
Mr. Dahilig: I think that's the purpose behind the
legislation, it's to provide that more expansive authority as well as expansive of
policy guidance and actually doing the implementation work related to the
recommendations that's coming forth. Right now what it has been, it's been an
actual size about list and that's where I think part of the impediment is the actual
legislation.
Mr. Rapozo: Well it is definitely... it's come to that and I
feel for the Commissioners because they do spend a lot of time; I've actually
witnessed their meetings in the community. Sometimes they take a lot of crap from
the community and they come back and they submit this list. At least with my kids
when they did Christmas wish list to Santa, we picked the cheapest ones and we got
22
PLANNING COMMITTEE MARCH 7, 2012
them, so at least they got something. They had not received anything except again
that one (1) parcel that if not for the community, non-profit Kauai Public Land
Trust, I don't know even if that would have even come to fruition. So there's going
to come a point in time where Commissioners are going to leave and there's going to
come a decision we got to make. Are we going to keep that Commission, because
they go through the exercises but we as the leaders and the people that are
supposed to be making it happen, we're not getting it done. You're saying this bill
will help?
Mr. Dahilig: It will help. I think the Commissioners have
quite honestly I think they feel like they have gotten a lot of coal over the past few
years.
Mr. Rapozo: Oh yeah and I don't blame them.
Mr. Dahilig: It's something that I think will allow them to
engage them in a more proactive environment where they actually can have a set of
tools that they can mix and match with their list and recommend priorities from the
implementation standpoint, not just what is the list.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay, thank you.
Committee Chair Nakamura: Thanks for bringing this up, Mel, because my
other observation is that by having so many meetings twice a month to prepare this
list that staff time is used solely to support those meetings and the notes and
preparing and getting everyone there, that it leaves very little time to actually do
the work, the implementation part of it. Has there been any discussion with the
Commission about reducing the frequency of their meetings and focusing on the
implementation of their recommendations? That can only be done because you have
one (1) staff person.
Mr. Dahilig: I think it's a valid point, Councilmember. I
think based on whatever happens with this legislation is something that we're going
to have to sit down with the Commissioners if passed and really pour down the
transition from the staff being the support and research to the actual implementers.
I think the discussion concerning the biennial and triennial report really does assist
in how we would look at deploying staff time in such a matter it would actually, I
would anticipate reduce the amount of meetings because the list wouldn't need to
be regenerated and re-switched every single year.
Committee Chair Nakamura: I think considering meeting less frequently
even once every other month or once a quarter just to free up this limited staff you
have to focus on product.
Mr. Dahilig: I do have to acknowledge that they are a
committed group of individuals and I think this bill really came out of that desire to
really want to do more. They are volunteers and it is tasking to have to be coming
in on such a frequent basis and so hopefully this legislation, we can retool our outlet
and try to create a more balanced approach with respect to Commission time to
staff time.
Committee Chair Nakamura: Thank you very much. Councilmember
Yukimura.
23
PLANNING COMMITTEE MARCH 7, 2012
Ms. Yukimura: I think you're right, Mike, that there will be
reorienting of both the Commission and the staff with this new legislation and this
idea of getting the projects done. Because it will turn probably more into like our
Kauai Public Land Trust meetings where there would be reports of the progress
and the work of each project and input and advice and sometimes connection work.
If say one of our Kaua`i Public Land Trust board members knew a Legacy Land
Commissioner, a phone call from them could help move whatever you need to move
ahead, within the proper limits of the law of course, but it'll change. The roles will
change and it'll be much more oriented to project management, project oversight,
and reports back on progress on each case. I think that's what the Commission's
been wanting to see all along, so the idea of fewer meetings and a different
orientation sounds good to me.
Committee Chair Nakamura: Thank you, Mike.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as
follows:
Committee Chair Nakamura: Councilmember Chang.
Mr. Chang: Thank you Chairman Nakamura. First of all
thank you everybody for coming to the meeting, and I want to take this opportunity,
Nani, thank you for being here. I think it's very important because we need to
remind the community and ourselves that all Commissioners are on a voluntary
basis and many of whom are working one (1) or two (2) jobs full-time, families,
everything else just to make it, so I hope we can encourage the commissioners that
weren't able to be here in person to watch it online, watch it on Hoike, make a video
available, so they can see what this extremely important discussion is. I want to
thank Jean Souza because most of us know during her day job, this is probably the
busiest time of her work as she visits and welcomes our beautiful humpback whales
into our island, so I know there's a lot of work during this duration of the time. I
think it's a reminder to our Councilmembers of the dedication, especially to the two
(2) Commissioners that we're going to sadly lose in two (2) very, very short months
and that's Commissioners Souza and Kinnaman. What really concerns me is these
are Council appointed positions. I don't know if any names were submitted or we
have anybody in mind, and it's an extremely critical time, especially when we're
looking at every island boundary is so important, but we're looking at the Po`ipu,
Koloa, Omao district that connects into the greater Kalaheo on into `Ele`ele, and
these are the areas that these two (2) Commissioners with their skill and with their
background and their knowledge over all these years. That worries me of the
continuity that we'll be able to have. Two (2) extremely strong commissioners will
be parting and we're responsible for filling these holes. I'm just hoping that we can
find people that are able and willing to not only volunteer but hit the ground
running, and I hope these kinds of discussions doesn't detour or scare people
because it's such an important Commission. I think more importantly it is very
important that the Commissioners see this conversation and watch the
conversation, study the conversation, and understand the concerns of the Council
because as I mentioned I think and I want to thank Jean for being here and
24
PLANNING COMMITTEE MARCH 7, 2012
Commissioner Kinnaman and all the other Commissioners, but it just puts it on the
radar screen that we really have to hustle because in two (2) very, very short
months our Commissioners' terms will be expired.
Committee Chair Nakamura: Thank you Councilmember Chang.
Upon motion duly made by Mr. Chang, seconded by Ms. Yukimura,
and unanimously carried (Councilmember Bynum excused), Bill No. 2423
was deferred.
CR-PL 2012-01: on Bill No. 2424 A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE TO ALLOW
SOLAR ENERGY FACILITIES IN THE
AGRICULTURE DISTRICT [Approved as
Amended.]
There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 11:31 a.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Darrellyne M'Simao
Council Services Assistant II
APPROVED at the Committee Meeting held on April 4, 2012:
n/4
NADINE K. NAKAMURA
CHAIR, PLANNING COMMITTEE
March 7, 2012
FLOOR AMENDMENT
Bill No. 2423, Relating to the Public Access, Open Space, and Natural Resources
Preservation Fund
INTRODUCED BY: Mel Rapozo, Councilmember (by request)
Bill No. 2423 is amended in its entirety to read as follows:
"SECTION 1. Findings and purpose:
The Council of the County of Kaua`i finds that to better manage the Public
Access and Open Space on Kaua`i, the Council should expand the scope of duties of
this Commission.
The Council finds that it needs to improve the Commission's operational
efficiencies and bring the scope of the Commission's duties in alignment with the
expectations and needs of the people of the County of Kaua`i.
SECTION 2. Chapter 6, Article 14 of the Kaua`i County Code 1987, as
amended, is hereby amended to read as follows:
Sec. 6-14.1 Purpose.
(a) In adopting each fiscal year's budget and capital program, the
Council shall appropriate a minimum of one-half of one percent (0.5%) of the
certified real property tax revenues to a fund known as the Public Access,
Open Space, and Natural Resources Preservation Fund ("Fund"). The
moneys in this Fund shall be utilized for purchasing or otherwise acquiring
lands or property entitlements for land conservation purposes in the County
of Kauai for the following purposes:
(1) Public outdoor recreation and education, including access
to beaches and mountains;
(2) Preservation of historic or culturally important land areas
and sites;
(3) Protection of significant habitats or ecosystems, including
buffer zones;
(4) Preserving forests, beaches, coastal areas and agricultural
lands;
(5) Protecting watershed lands to preserve water quality and
water supply;
(6) Conserving land in order to reduce erosion, floods,
landslides, and runoff;
Attachment 1
1
(7) Improving [disabled and] public access to, and enjoyment
of, public land and open space;
(8) Acquiring [disabled and] public access to public land, and
open space.
(9) Conserving land for open space and scenic values.
(b) The moneys in this Fund may also be used for the payment of
interest, principal, and premium, if any, due with respect to bonds issued
pursuant to Sections 3.13, 3.14, or 3.15, Charter, in whole or in part — for the
purposes enumerated in paragraph (a) of this section and for the payment of
costs associated with the purchase, redemption or refunding of such bonds.
(c) Any balance remaining in this Fund at the end of any fiscal year
shall not lapse, but shall remain in the fund, accumulating from year to year.
The moneys in this Fund shall not be used for any purpose except those listed
in this section.
Sec. 6-14.2 Administration.
(a) A community-based process that incorporates countywide
community input for the purposes of establishing [annual] biennial
recommended priorities of lands or other property entitlements to be acquired
for those land conservation purposes described in Section 6-14.1(a) of this
article and paragraph C of Section 19.15 of the Charter shall be utilized by
the County.
To meet this intent, a fund advisory commission ("Commission") shall
be established consisting of nine (9) appointees.
(1) The Mayor shall select four (4) appointees, with at least
one (1) from each of the following development plan areas and one (1)
at-large:
(A) Waimea— Kekaha;
(B) Lihu`e — Hanama`ulu; and
(C) Kapa'a a`a— Wailua.
(2) The Council shall select four (4) appointees, with at least
one (1) from each of the following development plan areas and one (1)
at-large:
(A) Hanapepe — `Ele`ele,
(B) Koloa— Po`ipu —Kalaheo; and
(C) North Shore (Anahola to Ha`ena)
(3) One (1) island wide, at-large appointee shall be selected
by the [appointed eight (8)] seated members. If there is no agreement
on the selection of the one (1) additional member within [forty-five
2
Attachment 1
(45)] seventy-five (75) days of the [appointment of the eight member]
vacancy, [the one (1) additional member shall be appointed by] the
power to fill that vacancy shall fall to the Mayor and confirmed by the
Council.
[(4) Initial terms of appointment shall be as follows:
(A) All at-large appointees shall serve initial terms of
one (1) year.
(B) Two (2) Mayoral district appointees shall serve
three-year terms.
(C) One (1) Mayoral district appointee shall serve an
initial one-year term.
(D) Two Council district appointees shall serve initial
terms of two (2) years.
(E) One Council district appointee shall serve a
three-year term.]
(4) Pursuant to Charter Section 23.02(B), all subsequent
appointments shall serve for staggered terms of three (3) years and
until their successors are appointed. However, no holdover term shall
extend beyond ninety (90) days.
(5) The role of the Commission shall be to:
(A) Work with the Planning Department to develop an
[annual] biennial list of priority projects to be considered for
funding; and
(B) Solicit public input on development of the [annual]
biennial list of priority projects to be considered for funding.
(C) Prepare an annual report for the Mayor's and
Council's review. This report should include, but not be limited
to, a list of:
(i) Accomplishments;
(ii) Challenges;
(iii) Future goals and objectives; and
(iv) Recommendations.
(6) The Commission is also authorized to:
(A) Advocate and be a resource for public access, open
space, and natural resources preservation planning for the
County of Kaua`i;
(B) [Assist with the] Provide feedback on the
Department's implementation of priority recommendations;
3 Attachment -1
(C) Serve as a forum to receive public input on issues
relating to the nine land conservation purposes outlined in
Section [6.14-1] (a) (1) through (9)_;
(D) Assist with the resolution of issues relating to the
nine land conservation purposes outlined in Section 6-14.1 (a)
(1) through (9); and
(E) Biennially report the balance and review the
sufficiency of the Public Access, Open Space and Natural
Resources Preservation Fund to the Council and the
Administration.
(b) The Commission shall establish [annual] biennial recommended
priorities of lands or property entitlements to be acquired, or for the funding
of projects directly related to the purposes of this article.
(c) For administrative purposes, this Commission shall be attached
to the Planning Department.
(d) At any given time, no more than five percent (5%) of this fund
shall be used for administrative expenses.
(e) Meetings of this Commission shall comply with requirements of
Chapter 92, Hawaii Revised Statutes (the "Sunshine Law").
(f) The Commission shall adopt administrative rules of procedure
pursuant to Chapter 91, Hawaii Revised Statutes (the "Hawaii
Administrative Procedures Act") within one hundred and eighty (180) days of
the full appointment of the Commission's membership.
Sec. 6-14.3 Appropriation of Funds.
(a) Appropriations for expenditure from this fund shall be made by
ordinance.
(b) The Commission shall transmit [annual] biennial
recommendations to the Council for priorities of lands or other property
entitlements to be acquired, or for the funding of projects directly related to
the purposes of this article.
(c) Funds may be appropriated to another government entity,
Jprivate owner,1 or nonprofit organization and used to acquire an interest in
property with the requirement that lands or entitlements benefit the public
and are protected in perpetuity.
(d) Lands or other property entitlements to be acquired may be
owned or held by the County of Kauai, other government entity, or nonprofit
organization with the requirement that lands or entitlements benefit the
public and are protected in perpetuity.
(e) Lands or other property entitlements to be acquired may be
managed by the County of Kauai, other government entity, (private owner,]
or nonprofit organization with the requirement that lands or entitlements
benefit the public and are protected in perpetuity."
Attachment 1
4
SECTION 3. If any provision of this ordinance or application thereof to
any person, persons, or circumstances is held invalid, the invalidity does not affect
the other provisions or applications of this ordinance which can be given effect
without the invalid provision or application, and to this end, the provisions of this
ordinance are severable.
SECTION 4. Ordinance material to be repealed is bracketed. New
ordinance material is underscored. When revising, compiling or printing this
ordinance for inclusion in the Kaua`i County Code, 1987, as amended, the brackets,
bracketed material, and underscoring shall not be included.
SECTION 5. This ordinance shall take effect upon approval."
(Material to be deleted is bracketed. New material is underscored)
V:\CS OFFI,CE FILES\AMENDMENTS\2010-12 term\2423 FA, No Private Owner (NN), GG,
il.doc
5 Attachment 1