HomeMy WebLinkAbout10/13/2010 Public Hearing Transcript re: BILL#2376PUBLIC HEARING
October 13, 2010
A public hearing of the Council of the County of Kauai was called to order by
Jay Furfaro, Chair, Planning Committee, on Wednesday, October 13, 2010,
at 1:40 p.m. at the Council Chambers, 3371-A Wilcox Road, Lihu`e, Kauai, and the
presence of the following was noted:
Honorable Tim Bynum
Honorable Dickie Chang
Honorable Jay Furfaro
Honorable Daryl W. Kaneshiro
Honorable Lani T. Kawahara
Honorable Derek S. K. Kawakami
Honorable Bill "Kaipo" Asing, Council Chair
The Clerk read the notice of the public hearing on the following:
BILL NO. 2376 - A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE TO AMEND
CHAPTER 8, KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED, RELATING
TO THE COMPREHENSIVE ZONING ORDINANCE,
which was approved on first reading and ordered to print by the Council of the
County of Kauai on August 25, 2010, and. published in The Garden Island
newspaper on September 27, 2010.
JAY FURFARO: We're going to go ahead and call into session this
Council session for the purpose of a public hearing, a public hearing that deals with
the proposed shoreline amendment setback- bill proposed, and I'd like to ask the
County Clerk if you could read that item. Thank you very much. Before I suspend
the rules, I do want to express to those of you that are in the audience, since this
will be referred to my committee in planning, I do think it may be a good idea when
we go into committee meeting to also see if we can't get Dr. Fletcher down to
participate in a workshop, especially since most of the work for the maps are maps
that were submitted as a result of the study that we funded with him. I think it's
very important for us to have a mutual understanding of the interpretations,
especially on what determines the building's setbacks, the footprint, and what we
currently have in the CZO that indicates that a minimal building footprint can be
as up to 2100 square feet without any variances. But I did want to share that with
the speaking audience as we take testimony from them, and the intent. This goes
into committee, and my intent is to see if we can coordinate a workshop. So on that
note, I'm going to suspend the rules and ask the clerk, do we have any people or
persons signed up for testimony?
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Mr. Nakamura: We have three registered speakers, Vice Chair.
Mr. Furfaro: Could you read all three names in the order that
they will give testimony?
Mr. Nakamura: First registered speaker is Carl Imparato,
second registered speaker is Caren Diamond, and .third registered speaker is
Barbara Robeson.
Mr. Furfaro:
Thank you very much.
The following communications were received for the record:
1) Carl Imparato, Sierra Club Kauai Group of the Hawaii Chapter, dated
10/13/2010
2) Thorne Abbott, dated 10/12/2010
The hearing proceeded as follows:
CARL IMPARATO: Aloha Councilmembers, my name is Carl Imparato,
and today I'm speaking on behalf of the Kauai Group of the Sierra Club. We
submitted some detailed testimony, and what I'd like to do today, though, is to
provide just an overview that focuses on two particularly bad changes that are
being proposed to the existing shoreline setback ordinance. One is to 8-27.1a, which
would exempt all sorts of development from all of the county's shoreline setback
standards, and the other is 8-27.3c, which would exempt development from having
to comply with erosion-based setbacks if those requirements would result in a
buildable footprint of less than 2100 square feet.
I'd like to start with the second problem here now. Let's take into typical
example here. Suppose someone has a 10,000 square foot lot that's 100 by 100 feet,
and it's located on the shore where there is a one and a half foot per year erosion
rate. Now that's not an atypical erosion rate; there are a lot of places that have
that. Under the existing setback law, they would have to be set back 40 feet plus 70
years times one and a half feet per year, which is 145 feet. That makes the lot
appear to be pretty much unbuildable since it's a hundred foot depth lot. But also
remember that at one and a half feet per year the entire lot would be makai of the
shoreline during the lifetime of the development; it would be completely inundated,
and in that case, all public access would be lost, and this doesn't even take into
account climate change and sea level rise. So, you know, there's. a problem with lots
of that nature. But under the existing ordinance, there's a .variance procedure, and
under that variance procedure, you have a requirement to basically set back the
proposed development as much as possible and go down to a 1500 square foot
footprint if necessary. So that would result, that variance process, in the
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development being set back about 75 feet on the hundred-foot lot. What this
proposed change to the ordinance does is it says, oh we don't do that anymore, we go
to this table and you only have a 40-foot setback. With that 40-foot setback, in
just 27 years there'd be no public access at all, because the shoreline would move
back that far. So what we have here is a strange thing where the very lots that
should be set back the maximum possible distance instead get set back under the
proposed change here, the minimum possible distance. Instead of going back 75 feet
in this case, they go back 40 feet from the shoreline, and that's a real problem, and
it's really endemic to the whole procedure that's proposed in 8-27.3c. I'd also like to
point out that if you even just say well what about one foot per year erosion rate,
that's the average erosion rate along the shores on Kauai. Still a large percentage
of the lot would be exempted by this process, because basically a one foot per year
erosion rate means you have to set back 110 feet, and then that means that the lot
doesn't qualify to go into the erosion rate based setbacks, and they automatically go
to a 40-foot setback. So there's a real problem with that part of the bill, and we
hope that you'll give consideration to striking that proposal.
The second thing I want to mention is the direct exemption from the entire
law that's proposed by 8-27.1a. Now supposedly that's for cases where you have
developments that are so far back from the shoreline that there should be no reason
why they...
Mr. Furfaro: Excuse me, Carl. I just...that was the three
minutes. I'm going to give you your other three minutes now. I just want to point
that out. Go ahead.
Mr. Imparato: Thank you. So there are cases where clearly a
development is on a 500-foot deep lot, it's 300 feet back, and maybe it shouldn't be
subject to going through all of these procedures. But if something is going to be
exempted, it's really...we have to be dead sure that that development would be set
back at least 40 feet plus 70 years worth of erosion rate beyond the shoreline, and
we have to be dead sure where the shoreline is. The changes that are proposed in
the bill are very broad, they're vague, and basically they lead to a situation where
someone just gets a good lawyer who just is going to argue that the setback won't
interfere with public access, the bill doesn't say public access for a hundred years,
one year, 40 years, and basically what we're going to end up with is a whole bunch
of exemptions here, and when a development falls into that category, none of the
setback law applies to it. So this is also a very problematic change that you're being
requested to look into on the shoreline setback ordinance, and I hope that you'll give
some thought to a different way of approaching the problem of determining what
should be exempt from the going through the procedures of the shoreline setback
law. You know, there's an argument that can be made that we should be giving
more discretion to the planning department or to the planning director or to the
planning commission to handle these kinds of exemptions, but I'll say I don't feel
very comfortable about that when going back to the very first thing I talked about,
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this bill came from the planning department, it came through the planning
commission, and still, within it it has the proposed exemptions that basically take
and allow projects that should be set back the maximum amount to be set back the
minimum amount. If the planning commission isn't looking at that in detail and
passing these proposals on to you for consideration, then I can't say that we would
feel very confident giving discretion to the planning department and the planning
commission to basically enforce this law in a way that protects public access. So I
hope that you'll give some real consideration to those two proposals in particular,
and if possible, if you do have something like a workshop also, then to look at other
ways in which we can actually strengthen the law. And I thank you for your time.
Mr. Furfaro: Thank you Carl.. May I ask, you heard my
suggestion as this is going to be referred to my committee that I will pursue a
workshop? Are you in favor of that?
Mr. Imparato: I think that's an excellent idea, both because we
have these concerns and because a workshop would allow us to look at some of the
problems in the existing law which could be ways we could strengthen the law.
Mr. Furfaro: And I do want to see if we can get Dr. Fletcher
here, since we are dealing with, you know, maps that are the result of his studies.
So you do favor that, then?
Mr. Imparato: It's... In fact I think it's an excellent idea. I
appreciate it.
Mr. Furfaro: Okay. Are there any questions of the individual
giving testimony? If not... Oh, go ahead.
Mr. Kaneshiro: So your assumption is that this bill actually does
not take the 500 feet law, because to me, this bill is really, you know, covers up
to 500 feet.
Mr. Imparato: When you say covers up to 500 feet, I wasn't sure
what you're...
Mr. Kaneshiro: Correct, of£..from the shoreline. This bill
specifically, you know, even if you're not abutting the shoreline and you're 500 feet
you're going to put something up, this bill still covers that too.
Mr. Imparato: It covers... You're correct, it covers properties that
don't abut the shoreline but are within the 500 feet.
Mr. Kaneshiro: Correct.
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Mr. Imparato: But ironically, the proposed change to 8-27.1a says
that for the properties that actually abut the shoreline, they can... the applicant can
make demonstrations that would allow the applicant based on the topography and
the distance of the improvements to the boundary to move away...
Mr. Kaneshiro: I see what you're saying.
Mr.Imparato: That's the irony. It's the ones that abut the
shoreline that escape, and the ones that are beyond-that are 500 feet from it-
don't escape.
Mr. Kaneshiro: I'll get a clarification from the planning
department, because my belief is that this bill covers everything, whether you abut
or you're within the 500 feet of the shoreline. So you know what I'm saying? So...
Mr.Imparato: I understand. Maybe that's what we need
clarification on.
Mr. Kaneshiro: The intent, I think, was that anything that is
over 500 feet where you have some circumstances where it could be even a half a
mile away and they still would have to get a shoreline certification, and I don't
think that's the intent that you would agree to that too. I know that. So we'll go
ahead and send a communication over to make sure that this bill covers everything,
you know, whether you abut or you're right on...within the shoreline.
Mr. Imparato: Clearly. I think we're in agreement as to what
should be done; the question is how to do it.
Mr. Kaneshiro: Thank you.
Mr. Imparato: Thank you.
Mr. Furfaro: Councilman Kaneshiro, we'll go ahead and
incorporate that communication over to planning. Does anyone have any other
discussions or questions for Mr. Imparato? Is that you Mr. Bynum?
Mr. Bynum: Yes. Thank you for your testimony, and I'm going
to look forward to the workshop, and I am also going to suggest to the chair that...to
find out if Dennis Huang is available for that workshop as well, because he was
very helpful in his testimony in formation of this bill to begin with. And then
maybe we can structure that workshop in a way that if your comments take longer
than six minutes, we can accommodate that as well. Okay?
Mr. Imparato: Appreciate that.
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Mr. Bynum: Thank you.
Mr. Furfaro: I will intend to. My intent is also to see if we can
also encourage someone from the Seagrant Program that we had involved in this to
participate. Carl, thank you for your testimony. Our next speaker?
CAREN DIAMOND: Good afternoon Councilmember. Caren Diamond.
Mr. Furfaro: Good afternoon Caren. Before I go on, you did hear.
my plan is get this in committee, then try and set up a workshop from committee
with participation with Dr. Fletcher and representation from the Seagrant people.
Ms. Diamond: Thank you. That's an excellent idea, and I fully
support that.
Mr. Furfaro: Thank you.
Ms. Diamond: I think that'll help address a lot of these issues and
problems that are in the bill, and it'll be especially helpful to have Dr. Fletcher here,
because it really confuses me reading this bill and where the title is saying that
we're going to implement the coastal erosion rates, when actually this bill does the
opposite. It does not implement the coastal erosion rates. It instead allows for an
alternative, and it's really confusing in how it does it, because in two different
places it says two different things. One place it says...it adds the building footprint
to it where you have to consider the building footprint with the coastal erosion rate,
which is completely erroneous, because you're supposed to figure out what your
coastal erosion rate is, and then what your buildable area is, and then you do a
building footprint that fits into that. It doesn't work the opposite way, unless you're
really trying to create calamity on the coast.
But there is another section in here that then says, well if the minimum
building footprint doesn't fit, then you use the table. And so it's confusing-in these
two places it says two different things. But if you were to use the existing
ordinance, it was really well thought out, and it already addressed vari...it allowed
for variances, and it allowed for the house size to be reduced, and the setbacks and
the front yard and the side yards to be reduced. It also indemnified the county and
allowed for no armoring forever, and you know, disclosure had to be apparent. And
these kind of things are important on the coast, especially because what we find is
the person who gets these permits and builds the structure is not the person who
actually ever lives in the house, because we have what's called flipping here. And so
they take that house as right up as close to the ocean as could be, and then they sell
it, and you have some other completely unsuspecting person who thinks that their
county approval and county building permit would mean that there is some level of
safety in that structure, when in fact it doesn't really exist.
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And you know, the problems in our coast, and if you look at Wainiha and
Ha`ena, the old structures are all set back. They're all really far back. They're still
far back. But the new structures are right... as close as you can get to the ocean.
And so I don't understand why the county would want to, instead of implementing
the coastal erosion rates, they would allow, you know, a proxy to happen and allow
larger structures than actually fit on these lots to occur. And I'd urge you to look at
the existing bill and how these problems were taken care o£ And you know, the
reason the table was put in to begin with was because the coastal erosion study is a
very expensive owner's thing for a landowner to have to do. And the table was put
in so that someone could develop along the coast before those erosion rates occur.
But now that the county has them, it would be really foolish for the county to say,
well we know that the erosion here is this much, but we're going to allow you to put
your house here anyway... because we do know that's how beaches are lost-it's
development too close to the ocean. And it leaves one of two choices, you armor and
lose the beach, or you lose the property. Either way, you're setting up the entire
coastal system for failure, both for the landowners and for the public. And so it's
really important that the things that are in this bill don't diminish the existing
ordinance, don't give people loopholes that, you know, that unfairly put their houses
at risk, and the people in them at risk. Our coastal hazards are real.
I'll look forward to the workshop to go over the rest of the problems in this,
and I will thank you guys for actually having experts come that can help make the
implementation of the coastal erosion rates a reality. Thank you.
Mr. Furfaro: I just want to make sure. We will, in a week, have
the item in my committee for planning, and in that committee we'll work out the
details of getting over people for the workshop, and then scheduling a separate
workshop.
Ms. Diamond: Excellent.
Mr. Furfaro: So I just want to make sure we're clear, don't
expect the workshop next week. What we'll do is we'll use the committee time to
plan the workshop.
Ms. Diamond: Okay, good. Thank you.
Mr. Furfaro: Let me see if there's any questions. Anybody have
any questions? None, thank you.
Ms. Diamond: Thank you.
Mr. Furfaro: I think our next speaker is Barbara Robeson.
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.BARBARA ROBESON: Thank you Chair Furfaro and Councilmembers.
Barbara Robeson for the record. I'm very much in favor of a workshop. When I
started reading the bill, I had a really hard time understand...well, I didn't
understand it. And so to have Carl and Caren help me understand it was very
useful to me, but when I first had the opportunity to take a look at it, I wondered
what the basis for the amendments to the existing bill were. And when I talked to
some folks in planning, my question was, was there a particular study or report that
came out of Dr. Fletcher's maps that were online, and I was unable to find out if
there was or wasn't. So I'm hoping that maybe that could be one of your questions,
if there's an actually study, because if there was a study, is it available to
the public.
On the other hand, if only maps were used to amend this bill, then who in the
planning department, or how did those maps get translated? What was the
expertise of that planner who took the maps and translated them into language for
the ordinance? So those are just some. questions that I still have, and hopefully
through the workshop I'll have a better understanding, because right now I have a
big question mark. Thank you.
Mr. Furfaro: Thank you Barbara, and that is my intent, is to get
from planning, who submitted these amendments, some understanding of what we
may have gotten from Dr. Fletcher that may have triggered these amendments that
they're submitting, and also a time for us maybe just to have a summary of the
complete study itself. So that is in the intent.
Ms. Robeson: Okay, thank you so much.
Mr. Furfaro: Are there any questions of Barbara? If not, thank
you Barbara. I don't believe we have any additional speakers, and on that note, I
will go ahead and adjourn this committee... Well, I will adjourn this public hearing
on the shoreline setback bill. We are now adjourned. Thank you.
There being no further testimony on this matter, the public hearing
adjourned at 2:01 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
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PETER A. NAKAMURA
County Clerk
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