HomeMy WebLinkAbout2012_1012_Minutes Open_APPROVED COUNTY OF KAUAI
Minutes of Meeting
OPEN SESSION
Approved as circulated 11/16/12
Board/Committee: BOARD OF ETHICS Meeting Date October 12, 2012
Location Mo`ikeha Building, Liquor Conference Room 3 Start of Meeting: 9:00 a.m. End of Meeting: 11:00 a.m.
Present Vice-Chair Mark Hubbard; Secretary Warren Perry; Members: Kathy Clark; Brad Nagano
Also: Deputy County Attorney Mona Clark; Boards & Commissions Office Staff: Support Clerk Barbara Davis; Administrator Paula
Morikami; Deputy County Attorney Mauna Kea Trask; Lt. Robert Craddick, Kaua'i Fire Department
Excused Chair Kurt Akamine; Calvin Murashige; Paul Weil
Absent
SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION
Call To Order Vice-Chair Hubbard called the meeting to order
at 9:00 am with a quorum of 4 members present
Approval of Regular ar Open Session Minutes of September 14, 2012 Mr. Perry moved to approve the minutes as
Minutes circulated. Mr. Nagano seconded the motion.
Motion carried 4:0
Special Open Session Minutes of September 19, 2012 Mr. Perry moved to approve the minutes as
circulated. Ms. Clark seconded the motion.
Motion carried 4:0
Request for an Deputy Attorney Trask requested the Board to consider RAO 12-008 as the
Advisory first request since Lt. Robert Craddick of the Fire Department was present
Opinion for that agenda item. The Board granted permission.
RAO 12-008 Letter dated 9/28/12 from Deputy County Attorney Mauna
Kea Task as legal counsel for the Kaua'i Fire Commission as to whether
there is a conflict of interest for Mike Nagano to sit as a Fire Commissioner
while being employed by National Fire Protection, Inc., and interacting
with Fire Department personnel to witness his inspections and to receive
guidance regarding fire codes and fire standard interpretations
Attorney Trask asked Lt. Craddick to explain what he does since he is
s ecificall y the person who deals with Mr. Nagano.
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Lt. Craddick stated he is the one who examines the plans, does public
education and fire investigations. The Department deals with Mr.Nagano
the same as with any other fire protection company for scheduling of
acceptance tests for new hood systems, suppression systems, and alarm
systems. If the Department is doing routine business inspections it is
possible to run across Mr. Nagano's company's tag on existing systems that
are annually inspected. On occasion Mr. Nagano will call asking for code
interpretation or an overview of what the Fire Department thinks he should
be doing in regard to the standards and code that regulate what they do.
Ms. Clark thought Mr. Nagano's knowledge through the National Fire
Protection, Inc. would be a benefit to sitting on the Fire Commission.
Attorney Trask said the Fire Commission's duties, responsibilities and
obligations include ensuring the honest and effective administration of the
Fire Department generally, without getting involved in the day-to-day
administrative operations as well as hiring and firing the Fire Chief. They
are the appointing authority for the Chief and they field complaints from the
public regarding the Fire Department.
Mr. Hubbard asked Lt. Craddick if he thought Mr. Nagano had a conflict in
working for the National Fire Protection, Inc., and being a member of the
Fire Commission. Lt. Craddick responded no;not at all. It is just like any
other person who is an architect or an engineer and whose plans come
across our desk for stamping the plans. Lt. Craddick said he interacts with
Mr. Nagano in the same way as any other business or professional person.
In response to Ms. Clark's question, Mr. Nagano likewise would not get
work from his being on the Fire Commission.
Att orne Clark asked what type of presentations Mr. Nagano makes to the
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Fire Department. Lt. Craddick said Mr. Nagano would call for a new
system to be commissioned for a suppression system at a restaurant and Lt.
Craddick assigns one of the inspectors who will fail or pass the system
according to the standards and codes. Asked if Mr. Nagano would be
present as the inspection occurs, Lt. Craddick said typically yes. Mr.
Nagano's company also has people come in from Honolulu for different
systems they install. They do fixed suppression systems which require an
acceptance test that has to be witnessed by an inspector.
Mr. Hubbard asked how long Mr. Nagano had been a Fire Commissioner
and employed by National Fire Protection. Attorney Trask said Mr.
Nagano was appointed earlier this year to the Fire Commission and his
career is in the fire inspection industry but Attorney Trask did not have
knowledge of how long that has been. Lt. Craddick stated that he has been
dealing with Mr. Nagano for around three to five years.
Attorney Clark directed the Board to the County Code, Section 3-1.7,
Conflicts of Interest, which lists what employees can do. Employees are
defined as including members of Boards and Commissions which says no
councilman or employee shall assist any person or business or act in a
representative capacity for a fee or other compensation............before the
agency of which he is an employee.
Mr. Hubbard said that is similar to 20.02 D of the Charter which says no
employee shall appear in behalf of private interest before any county board,
commission or agency. What the Deputy Attorney cited is narrower and
has to do with a transaction if you appear or assist a business. Mr. Hubbard
said there are firefighters who are employed by private interests that deal
with the Fire Department and who received approval from a prior Board of
Ethics. Mr. Hubbard said on the surface it appears that just the fact that Mr.
Nagano is a Fire Commissioner and is employed by a business that has
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some transactions with the Fire Department violates this section. It is not
necessarily a conflict of interest but it violates 20.02 D and he questioned
whether they were being too broad in letting others go.
Attorney Trask said that was a good point and that is why this question
arose. Some of our Boards and Commissions do require that industry
individuals be on the board. Unlike the Planning Commission or other
commissions that review permits and process such things, the Fire
Commission does not get involved in the day-to-day operations or the
decisions regarding situations like Mr. Nagano deals with. That is a
distinguishing factor between the Planning Commission versus the Fire
Commission. It is complex issue but if Mr. Nagano gets advice from this
Board and follows it he is protected.
Mr. Perry said the Chief is in charge of the entire Fire Department and he
has subordinates of which some are inspectors who once in a while will
inspect Mr. Nagano's work. The Fire Commission sits above the Fire
Chief, there might be a conflict and he asked if Attorney Trask or Lt.
Craddick could address that. Lt. Craddick said the inspectors are also
members of the IAAI (International Association of Arson Investigators) and
they have a canon of ethics that the Department is strictly held to, whether
or not it is Mr. Nagano's work. The Department inspects on behalf of the
Chief, who is like the fire marshal for the County. Although the staff is
subordinate to him, they are independent of him in that they have to follow
the strict standard according to the National Fire Protection Association
Standards and the fire code that is the law through a legislative act at the
State level as well as the County ordinance. Does it make a difference that
Mr. Nagano is a Fire Commissioner, not at all? Lt. Craddick said it was just
recently he read in the Fire Commission minutes that Mr. Nagano was a
Commissioner.
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Mr. Perry said he understands the need for the expertise of some people on
the Fire Commission. Mr. Perry said he also understands there are two
codes of ethics; the international one to which the inspectors comply as well
as the County's code and this Board must apply the County's code.
Attorney Clark interjected that the Board was not dealing with a subjective
standard but an objective standard and the Board is not sitting in judgment
of whether he believes he is doing something wrong or whether he is in fact
doing something wrong. The Board is just being asked to apply the Code Mr. Perry moved that under RAO 12-008 there
and the Charter as you see applicable. is a conflict of interest with regard to Charter
§20.02 D and KCC §3-1.7 D relative to Mr.
Mike Nagano sitting as a Fire Commissioner and
being employed by the National Fire Protection.
Mr. Nagano seconded the motion. Motion
carried 4:0
RAO 12-007 Letter dated 9/10/12 from Deputy County Attorney Mauna
Kea Trask as legal counsel for the Kaua'i Fire Department as to whether
there is a conflict of interest for the 2013 Kaua'i Junior Lifeguard squad,
Fire Department employees including Water Safety Officers, CountYpark
employees, technical support staff and use of County resources, property
and equipment in filming a proposed reality based television show currently
entitled"Saving Lives"
Mr. Perry noted on page 2,paragraph 2 the letter stated According to the
current proposal 4Dventures will rely on the County to provide the
following support services: (1)Information—no problem (2) staffing and
(3) the use of resources and equipment,for example ATVs,jet skis, boards,
buoys,flags, etc. Mr. Perry asked Attorney Trask to help him address why
that would not be a special benefit to 4Dventures as opposed to what any
other individual could acquire. Attorney Trask said the production
company's proposal does read a certain way but in talking with them,
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specifically about staffing and logistical support, they say they just want to
film the Jr. Lifeguard program and be able to go on the jet ski to take some
shots. The park personnel would be more for safety type things. Attorney
Trask was not sure if the production company knew what they meant by
that but he needed to present all the information to the Board. This project
addresses an educational piece that the Fire Department and Ocean Safety
Bureau (OSB) are always promoting so this would be an avenue to spread
the message wider if this program is picked up and all the other
contingencies are satisfied.
Mr. Perry said the County does cooperate with people when they are doing
movies but he does not know if the Board has ever looked into this special
benefit. Attorney Trask did not think it was a special benefit because when
you read what they say and listen to what they say it seems more benign.
Attorney Trask thought the Fire Department/Ocean Safety Bureau would be
happy to comply with some kind of modified decision by the Board if it is
found appropriate to say the production company can film but not allow the
County to provide certain things. In response to the question of who runs
the Jr. Lifeguard Program, Attorney Trask said he thought it was a
relationship between the Kaua'i Lifeguard Association (KLA),which he
believes is a non-profit, and the Ocean Safety Bureau, which is a County
agency. Attorney Trask thought that Kalani Vierra, the head of the Ocean
Safety Bureau, may sit on the KLA Board but there is no formal
relationship even though there may be a very large informal relationship.
Mr. Perry asked why couldn't there be a contract between the Jr. Lifeguard
Program and the 4Dventures people. Attorney Trask said reality television
is a novel thing and the Kaua'i Jr. Lifeguard squad is highly decorated; this
production company wants to touch it. The KLA is very passionate about
what they do and in getting the water safety message out; aside from that
the don't know much about contracting. Attorney Trask did tell
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4Dventures he needed to bring this before the Board of Ethics for an
opinion and then talk with the union after that and ultimately get the County
Council to sign off to have that protection for the County.
Mr. Hubbard said that lifeguards do volunteer their time to do certain
things; however when they run the Jr. Lifeguard Program the lifeguards
who train the kids are all paid by the County because this is a state-wide
program during the summer. It is worth it for the County to put in money,
time and effort because the lifeguards do train and provide ocean safety
awareness. This project does not seem to be too dissimilar from KLA's
efforts and being non-profit they could work with this production company.
Whatever they would do would be their own deal since the Board does not
have any control over a non-profit. The question is can the County put in
time, effort and money into this production, which is what 4Dventure is
asking for with staffing, riding on the jet ski, etc., when there is no
emergency involved. The question the Fire Department is asking is will
this benefit the County? Will this advance our ocean safety awareness? If
it does and the Chief is willing to put in a certain amount of money and a
certain amount of staff, then they would like to do this. Will that be a
special benefit? It could be a special benefit to the production company but
it also benefits the County by advancing their goal of ocean safety
awareness. Would that be a reasonable statement?
Attorney Trask said that is exactly the client's (the Fire Department)
position in this whole thing. The Department is very big on education in
this area and they advocate safety films on airplanes and work with the
rescue tubes. Their big thing is the best way to stop a drowning is to
prevent a drowning.
Mr. Hubbard asked Attorney Clark if when there are other production
companies filming on the island do they have a contract with the County
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and pay the County for use of whatever.
Attorney Clark said the contracts that she has seen involve the right to go
on to specific properties and film that property. They haven't involved the
use of County employees or equipment. There is a provision in the Kaua'i
County Code that deals with the licenses and what can be provided for in
those instances. Attorney Clark thinks there is a distinction between a
County supported event which would occur if someone went to the County
Council and got their support in approving it as a County event. Attorney
Clark did not know if an individual, the head of the Ocean Safety Bureau or
the head of the Fire Department, can make that allocation himself.
Mr. Nagano said he sees one as a County run program for the lifeguards
teaching the kids safety and the other as a private firm which is not a
County program and finds the two different. Mr. Hubbard asked Attorney
Trask if the Kaua'i Lifeguard Association was the main sponsor of the
program or was it actually the County's Ocean Safety Bureau. Attorney
Trask said his understanding is that it is a joint program because the kids
have to sign waivers and there is an involvement by the County in that they
are trained by lifeguards. Attorney Trask did not know if the lifeguards
were paid time or time and a half.
Mr. Hubbard asked if the production company would pay any of the county
employees to be actors or pay them while they are being paid by the
County. Attorney Trask said the last sentence of the first page of the
communication states that 4Dventures is not requesting financial
compensation from the County of Kaua'i and does not intend to compensate
the County for its collaborations. They are there to film the product and sell
it to the networks and the County gets nothing beyond that.
Mr. Perry said the problem as he sees it, OSB will guarantee staffing and
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SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION
will guarantee the use of the ATVs and there is where the special benefit
comes in. Giving them information, giving them some access rights is not a
problem because that is the thing the general public can get a hold of but to
guarantee them staffing, technical support including use of ATVs and jet
skis is the problem. If OSB just has 4Dventures filming the event and does
not guarantee them they will provide any equipment it should not be a
conflict. The production company should get their own jet ski, board and
equipment. As the request is stated right now, however, there is a problem
with special benefits.
Attorney Trask said Mr. Perry brought up a good point and as a matter of
background, the Fire Department and KLA were approached by
4Dventures. In the general discussion, Attorney Trask advised 4Dventures
that the potential issues are ethics, union, and ultimately the County
Council. Attorney Trask requested a detailed written request in order to
start the process with the understanding that it could stop at any given time.
4Dventures is not the County's client and we have not advised them of
anything. Attorney Trask said if the Board does see a problem, on behalf of
the client(Fire Department/OSB) who wants to realize this, they would be
happy to follow an amended recommendation that the production company
could film but without request#2, #3, etc., and they will comply.
Ms. Clark said it seems on the surface there is a different relationship
needed with the whole thing. Has Attorney Trask considered going before
the County Council and asking them to give permission to do something
like this?
Attorney Trask said §3.18 of the Charter says the Council shall not interfere
with the administrative processes of the County. The question is what does
that mean? This Board is the arbiter of ethics, not the County Council and
not the County Attorney. Before anyone can be asked for their authority,
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ethics has to win.
Mr. Perry said that since Attorney Trask had suggested an amended request,
he would suggest Attorney Trask withdraw this request and discuss it
further with the Fire Department/OSB and fashion it so there is no ethical
question. Attorney Trask asked the Board to give him their
recommendations so he can tailor the request accordingly. Mr. Perry
suggested Attorney Trask review a copy of the draft of this meeting's
minutes and the comments from the Board members which could assist him
in limiting the discussion with OSB and 4Dventures. Mr. Perry said if the
Board rules there is a conflict, Attorney Trask is stuck with that decision. It
hamstrings OSB in dealing with 4Dventures.
Attorney Trask said he understands the conflict to be questions that arise as
to page 2,paragraph 2, item 2, item 3 and maybe item 4 and if that is the
pleasure of the Board, he will withdraw the request at this time.
Mr. Hubbard said Mr. Perry used the word guarantee but the 3rd paragraph
seems that word is not appropriate and is a perfect out for the County.
Since there is some concern and it appears there not will be a unanimous
decision of the Board, maybe if 4Dventures went to the Kaua'i Lifeguard
Association and let the Kaua'i Lifeguard Association deal with the County,
which they do already on this program,we would not have a problem
because they are a non-profit. Let the non-profit deal with 4Dventures.
Mr. Perry said as it is written it is OSB, a County agency, who is asking if
there is a conflict.
Attorney Trask said he would withdraw the request at this time in order to
further discuss it with his client to amend any potential arrangement they
mi ht have with 4Dventures and KLA and will probably bring back a
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different schematic to the Board. Vice Chair Hubbard said it is the Board's
understanding that the request for RAO 12-007
is bein withdrawn
Recess Vice Chair Hubbard called a recess at 9:52 a.m.
The meeting was called back to order at 9:55
a.m.
Business BOE 2012-17 Discussion and possible decision-making of adopting
Robert's Rules of Order, Newly Revised for matters of procedure governing
the conduct of Board meetings not addressed by the Board's Rules Ms. Clark moved to defer this item to the next
meeting. Mr.Perry seconded the motion. Motion
carried 4:0
Disclosures a. Ernest Barreira(Budget&Purchasing Director) Mr. Perry moved to receive Disclosure a. and
deem it complete. Mr. Nagano seconded the
motion. Motion carried 4:0
Executive Attorney Clark stated that the Board would be
Session going into Executive Session for items ES-30,
ES-31, ES-2, ES-3, ES-7, ES-8, and ES-16 as
fully described in the posted agenda. Mr. Perry
moved to go into Executive Session at 10:00
a.m. Ms. Clark seconded the motion. Motion
carried 4:0
Return to Open The meeting resumed in Open Session at 11:00
Session a.m.
Ratify Board of Ethics actions taken in Executive Session for items: ES-2,
ES-3, ES-7, ES-8, ES-16, ES-30 and ES-31 Mr. Nagano moved to ratify the Boards' actions
taken in Executive Session. Mr. Perry seconded
the motion. Motion carried 4:0
Announcements Next Meeting: Friday,November 16, 2012— 1:30 p.m. Ms. Clark will be off island in November
Adjournment Meeting was adjourned at 11:00 a.m.
Board of Ethics
Open Session
October 12, 2012 Page 12
Submitted by: Reviewed and Approved by:
Barbara Davis, Staff Support Clerk Mark Hubbard, Vice Chair
( ) Approved as is.
( ) Approved with amendments. See minutes of meeting.