HomeMy WebLinkAbout051412_CCC OPEN SESSION_APPROVED 1m(tt) COUNTY OF KAUAI
Minutes of Meeting
OPEN SESSION
Board/Committee: COST CONTROL COMMISSION Meeting Date May 14, 2012
Location Mo'ikeha Building—Meeting Room 2A/B Start of Meeting: 1:39 p.m. End of Meeting: 2:45 p.m.
Present Chair Dirk Apao; Vice-Chair Sandi Sterker Members: Lawrence Chaffin Jr.; and Glen Takenouchi
Also First Deputy County Attorney Amy Esaki; Board& Commissions Office Staff: Support Clerk Mercedes Youn; Administrative
Aide Teresa Tamura.
Invited guest: Deputy Finance Director Sally Motta and Real Property Officer Steve Hunt. (Arrived at 1:55 p.m.)
Excused Members: Arryl Kaneshiro and Laurie Yoshida
Absent
SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION
Call To Order Chair Apao called the meeting to order at 1:39
p.m.
Approval of Workshop Minutes of March 23, 2012
Minutes
Mr. Chaffin requested that a correction be made on page two (2) second
paragraph of the minutes to reflect that Ms. Sterker agreed and questioned
whether it would be appropriate to make a recommendation to raise the
minimum tax.
Chair Apao called for the motion to approve the minutes as amended. Ms. Sterker moved to approve the minutes of
March 23, 2012 as amended. Mr. Takenouchi
seconded the motion.
Motion carried 4:0
Regular Open Session Minutes of April 9, 2012.
Ms. Sterker moved to approve the minutes as
circulated. Mr. Takenouchi seconded the
motion.
Motion carried 4:0
Cost Control Commission
Regular Open Session Minutes
May 14, 2012 Page 2
SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION
Communications CCC 2012-08 Communication dated 03/13/12 from Chair Apao and
Commission Members, to Janine Rapozo, Human Resources Taskforce
requesting a representative from the taskforce to be present at the Cost
Control Commission meeting on April 9, 2012 to provide an update on the
progress generated by the taskforce.
Staff informed the Commission that the Human Resources Taskforce
would be available in June to provide an update on its progress.
Chair Apao called for the motion to defer this matter until the June 18,
2012 meeting. Ms. Sterker moved to defer. Mr. Takenouchi
seconded the motion.
Motion carried 4:0
Business CCC 2011-08 Review and discussion of the County's real property tax
exemptions and rate settings. (On-going)
(p) Memorandum dated 04/03/12 from Chair Dirk Apao to Wallace
Rezentes Jr., Director of Finance, requesting for information on the
number of people that actually pay the minimum tax of$25.00 and those
who pay below $150.00 and a listing of all 501 (c) non-profit
organizations.
Ms. Sterker moved to receive.
Chair Apao called for the motion to receive item CCC 2011-08 (p). Mr. Chaffin seconded the motion.
Motion carried 4:0
(q) Email dated 04/10/12 from Steve Hunt responding to the Commission's
request for information relating to the amount of tax payers who pay the
minimum tax of$25.00 and those who pay below $150.00, and a listing of
all 501 (c) non-profit organizations.
Mr. Takenouchi moved to receive.
Chair Apao called for the motion to receive item CCC 2011-08 (q). Ms. Sterker seconded the motion.
Cost Control Commission
Regular Open Session Minutes
May 14, 2012 Page 3
SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION
Discussion
Mr. Chaffin questioned the definition between the 501 (c) nonprofit
organizations and 501 (c) (3)nonprofit organizations.
Ms. Esaki explained that there are several nonprofit organization types that
are listed under the general 501 (c)nonprofit organizations.
Ms. Sterker indicated that the 501 (c) (3) are nonprofit organizations and
some included religious, educational, charitable, churches, hospitals,
nursing homes, and cemeteries that are dedicated to public use. Ms.
Sterker further indicated that there is a list of organization types that range
from 501 (c) (2)through 501 (c) (9).
Ms. Sterker stated that the response from Mr. Hunt showed that the number
of homeowners paying the $25.00 minimum real property tax totaled 769
and that she was glad to see that number was not higher. She noted that
the number of minimum taxpayers increased moderately due to the higher
income exemption in 2012.
Ms. Sterker felt that the information does not have any forbearing for her
should the Commission decide to increase the minimum real property tax.
She felt that although it would not bring more revenue into the County it
would help with the costs to do an assessment which includes time, cost of
mailing, and postage. Ms. Sterker noted that the non-homeowners should
also be included in the increase.
Mr. Chaffin stated there are two (2)ways of looking at this issue, 1)
whether the cost to levy the tax is less than the amount of the tax and 2) is
the cost to levy the tax considerably more. He suggested that the
Commission either eliminate the tax or increase the amount.
Cost Control Commission
Regular Open Session Minutes
May 14, 2012 Page 4
SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION
Ms. Sterker agreed that the Commission should either decide to eliminate
the tax completely or try to break even. Ms. Sterker suggested that the
Commission have a general discussion with the Real Property Tax
Division representatives on how they feel about eliminating the tax
completely, which could mean a loss of revenue for the County.
Mr. Chaffin stated that although it could be a loss in revenue for the
County you have to factor in the amount of money it costs to levy the tax
and then ask yourself whether it would be more of a savings for the
County.
Mr. Takenouchi asked by eliminating the tax would the tax payers fall
under another category.
Chair Apao stated that the Finance Director has provided the Commission
with information on the minimum real property taxes for each island and
that the information also included a history of when the increased took
effect. He noted that the information would be very helpful to the
Commission to determine the rate setting. Ms. Sterker felt that the
minimum tax of$25.00 is next to nothing.
Mr. Takenouchi noted that in 2003, the Hawaii County has increased their
minimum real property tax from $25.00 to $100.00. He expressed his
concern that the County of Kauai had not changed its minimum real
property tax since 1981/82. He asked whether it would be left up to the
County Council to implement the increase.
Ms. Esaki indicated that it would have to come from the Real Property Tax
Division Office in a form of a bill for introduction to the County Council.
Cost Control Commission
Regular Open Session Minutes
May 14, 2012 Page 5
SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION
Mr.Takenouchi was shocked to learn that since the early eighties nothing
had been done to increase to the minimum real property tax. He implied
by taking the 769 tax payers and multiply that number by one hundred
would create a significant increase in revenue for the County.
Ms. Sterker implied that the County should go further by combining the
homeowners and non-homeowners (2972 total) and multiply the total
number by a hundred. Chair Apao noted that every assessment requires
the use of County resources.
Ms. Sterker suggested that the Commission should inquire about the cost to
process the assessment and use that information to justify the
Commission's recommendation for the tax rate increase.
Ms. Sterker mentioned at the last meeting, Ms. Yoshida offered to provide
the Commission with a listing of all 501 (c)type organizations.
Mr. Chaffin asked whether it would be appropriate to request for a cost
benefit analysis that would reveal an approximate cost to create the tax
versus what it would cost the County to receive the tax.
Chair Apao asked Mr. Hunt if he knew what the approximate cost for the
County is to do an assessment(i.e. employee time, cost of mailing,
postage, etc.) and whether the minimum tax of$25.00 covers the cost.
Chair Apao expressed his concern that the other counties have increased
their property taxes as recently as 2011 and that Kauai County hasn't
increased its minimum real property tax since 1981/82.
Mr. Hunt stated part of the dilemma that the Real Property Tax Division
Cost Control Commission
Regular Open Session Minutes
May 14, 2012 Page 6
SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION
Office was faced with was finding a way to determine how to assign a
portion of the overall operational budget into parcels. He explained that
there are different levels of service that would require an actual breakdown
and that some departments generate revenue while others do not and those
are the ones that rely on real property or other sources for revenue.
Mr. Hunt stated that the best approach is to do a breakdown which would
show the cost of having the basic services such as police, fire, lifeguard,
and 911 ambulance services. Mr. Hunt voiced his concern that it would be
difficult for them to do a departmental analysis on who should pay what
part of the operational budget.
Chair Apao noted that a suggestion was made to eliminate the billing
process completely because of the extra cost it incurred.
Mr. Hunt explained that the billing cycle comes in two phases. The first
phase is the notification of assessment which is sent to thirty-four thousand
parcels at seventy-five cents per parcel. Multiply that by thirty-four
thousand and the cost to the County is a total of$25,500. The second is
the billing phase which is done in two increments and handled by the Tax
Collections Division.
Mr. Hunt stated he understands that it takes a lot of time to process an
assessment for the County. However, the County is still generating
revenue and that he cannot imagine that the cost of billing would exceed
the cost to send the assessment notification even though the billing is sent
out twice.
Mr. Hunt raised a concern that the County is losing revenue when it comes
to reprocessing the returned checks. He stated that the fee that the County
is charging is far less than the cost to reprocess a returned check.
Cost Control Commission
Regular Open Session Minutes
May 14, 2012 Page 7
SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION
Mr. Chaffin questioned why the County hasn't increased its fees for the
returned checks. Mr. Hunt explained that the process for the increase
would require a lot of time because it would not just be for the real
property tax division, but for the entire County and that all sections of the
County would have to participate in the process.
Mr. Chaffin questioned whether it would be appropriate for the
Commission to be involved with getting the process started. Ms. Sterker
stated that this is an issue that the Commission may want to look into. Mr.
Hunt agreed and encouraged the Commission to explore the matter further.
Ms. Sterker asked what would be a reasonable rate to increase the
minimum real property tax too, or should the Commission's
recommendation be to eliminate the tax completely, that way there would
be no need to do the assessments.
Mr. Hunt stated that by law his department would still have to do the
assessments, even though there are zero real property taxes to collect. The
work load would still exist.
Mr. Hunt noted that in order to get a better idea on the approximate cost for
the County to do an assessment, you need to take the department's
operating budget and divide that by the number of parcels. This would
give you an idea on what it takes to operate real property assessment.
Mr. Hunt stated that one way of doing this is by combining both the cost of
the collections process and assessment notices, include the electricity to
run the building whatever the budget is, then divide that by the number of
parcels to decide what each fair share on the pro-rated basis of that
minimum would be.
Cost Control Commission
Regular Open Session Minutes
May 14, 2012 Page 8
SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION
Ms. Sterker noted that the cost of County services has gone up
significantly and that it is the intent of this Commission to make a one-time
recommendation based on its discussions and information from the Real
Property Tax Division. Mr. Hunt suggested that the Commission look at
what the other counties are doing and have accomplished.
Ms. Sterker stated that after seeing what the other counties are charging for
their minimum real property taxes, as well as the dates they were
implemented, she strongly felt that the time has come to increase the
minimum real property tax for the Kauai County and determine whether
the various tax exemptions should be maintained, revised, or eliminated.
Ms. Sterker suggested that the Commission raise the minimum real
property tax from $25.00 to $150.00 in hopes that it will cover some of the
costs to the County.
Mr. Hunt stated that part of the challenge is that there are different bodies
going in different directions There are some people who are looking to
increase the exemptions and reduce taxes even further. He voiced his
concern that there must be some kind of marriage on both sides. Mr. Hunt
stated that it is his understanding that the recommendation to remove the
Home Owner's Exemption is not likely going to happen. However, there
are talks that they are looking seriously at some of the nonprofits on a
percentage value.
Ms. Sterker indicated that the Credit Union exemption is a sliding scale
and that the Commission strongly feels that everyone who benefits from
the County's array of services should have a part in paying for those
services. Mr. Hunt agreed.
Cost Control Commission
Regular Open Session Minutes
May 14, 2012 Page 9
SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION
Ms. Sterker asked whether her proposal to increase the minimum real
property tax from $25.00 to $150.00 is realistic. Mr. Hunt noted, that
would be about $12.00 a month for the County services
Ms. Sterker indicated that the Commission needs to make it known that it
took its charge seriously and met with representatives from the County
Real Property Tax Division. They provided technical information and
answered questions to facilitate and assist the Commission with its
deliberations and decision-making. She acknowledged that this is a very
complex subject, but in the end, it really boils down to a policy call on
what the Commission believes is good for the County and fair to the
taxpayer.
Mr. Chaffin voiced his concern that the amount of money that is being
proposed has to be justifiable in a specific manner, and how that is going to
be accomplished would be based on the guidelines from the Real Property
Tax Division.
Mr. Hunt indicated that he is here only to provide technical information
and answer questions to help the Commission with its decision-making.
Any decisions regarding a recommendation must come from the Cost
Control Commission.
Mr. Takenouchi questioned whether the Commission's recommendation
(s) would be presented as a whole package. Ms. Sterker agreed and felt
that the recommendations should be presented as a whole package.
Ms. Esaki reminded the members that they need to determine whether the
various tax exemptions and the minimum real property tax should be
maintained, revised, or eliminated.
Cost Control Commission
Regular Open Session Minutes
May 14, 2012 Page 10
SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION
Mr. Hunt noted that if a recommendation of the Commission gets to the
Council level, he requested that his department have ample time especially
if the recommendation deals with the nonprofit organizations. He pointed
out that his department does not address the nonprofits in terms of
accuracy of the building and any renovations that may have occurred
because they do not generate revenue. He noted that the focus is on the
open permits that generate revenue and anything that is nonprofit tends to
get to the bottom of the pile.
Motion carried 4:0
With no further discussion, Chair Apao called for the motion to receive
item CCC 2011-08 (q).
(r) Memorandum from Dirk Apao to Wallace Rezentes Jr., Director of
Finance, requesting for information on the various types of tax exemptions.
Chair Apao called for the motion to receive item CCC 2011-08 (r).
Ms. Sterker moved to receive. Mr. Takenouchi
seconded the motion.
Motion carried 4:0
(s) Communication dated 04/27/12 from Wallace Rezentes Jr., to Chair
Dirk Apao, responding to the Commission's request on questions that
relate to the various types of exemptions.
Chair Apao called for the motion to receive item CCC 2011-08 (s). Ms. Sterker moved to receive. Mr. Takenouchi
seconded the motion.
Discussion
With regards to the breakdown of what is included under Charitable by
category, Ms. Sterker found it interesting that it is the use of the property
and not ownership that determines its eligibility.
Cost Control Commission
Regular Open Session Minutes
May 14, 2012 Page 11
SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION
Mr. Hunt added that if the property is not used for any kind of charitable
use and is owned by a charitable organization, they are not exempt from
taxation. Mr. Hunt further added that there is an ongoing appeal relating to
this matter and that there is a property that was much larger that was CPR
into a number of units and that each of the individual units are not in use,
in fact there are a number of the units that remain vacant.
In regard to what is included under miscellaneous and the purpose for it,
Mr. Hunt informed the Commissioners that there are only four(4)
properties under this category and that three (3) of the lots are associated
with the Wilcox Estate and located in the Uluko Subdivision. Mr. Hunt
noted that he is currently in the process of doing an investigation to find
out whether the lots were deeded or did something happen to the property
that would essentially constitute some kind of exemption for the Estate.
Ms. Sterker asked what happens with the property assessment when the
building on the property is unhabitable. Mr. Hunt explained that the
County has an effective age and condition which basically adjusts the
assessment to a salvage level and that any improvements that are made to
the building would have zero exemption.
Ms. Sterker asked whether there is a real property assessment done on the
island of Niihau. Mr. Hunt said that the assessments are being done by
John Herring, although not on a regular basis.
Ms. Motta wanted to clarify the Commission's request for information on
an approximate cost for the County to do an assessment notices related to
time for Staff to service clients, cost of mailing,postage, and cost to the
County for returned checks.
Cost Control Commission
Regular Open Session Minutes
May 14, 2012 Page 12
SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION
Mr. Chaffin voiced his concern that the time and effort expended by the
Cost Control Commission to ask for the additional information may not
result in being meaningful.
Ms. Esaki stated that she would see what the conditions are under the
County Code that relates to the bad check fees and provide the
Commission with information on the State Statutes.
Chair Apao questioned whether the Commission was done looking at the
exemption types.
Mr. Takenouchi stated that once the Commission receives the information
from the Real Property Tax Division staff the Commission could determine
how to move forward with a recommendation.
With no further discussion, Chair Apao called for the vote to receive item
CCC 2011-08 (s).
Motion carried 4:0
Announcements Next Meeting—June 18, 2012 at 1:30 p.m. at the Mo'ikeha Building in the
Liquor Conference No. 3.
Adjournment With no further business to discuss, Chair Apao called for the meeting to At 2:45 p.m. Mr. Chaffin moved that the
adjourn. meeting be adjourned. Mr. Takenouchi
seconded the motion.
Motion carried 4:0
Cost Control Commission
Regular Open Session Minutes
May 14, 2012 Page 13
Submitted by: Reviewed and Approved by:
Mercedes Youn, Staff Support Clerk Dirk Apao, Chair
( ) Approved as circulated(add date of meeting approval).
(X) Approved as amended. See minutes of June 18, 2012 meeting.