HomeMy WebLinkAbout2012-08-23 Open Space Commission Minutes - DRAFT PUBLIC ACCESS, OPEN SPACE &NATURAL RESOURCES
PRESERVATION FUND COMMISSION
REGULAR MINUTES
August 23, 2012
A regular meeting of the Public Access, Open Space &Natural Resources Preservation Fund
Commission of the County of Kauai was held in the Lihue Civic Center, Moikeha Building, in
meeting room 2A/2B. The following Commissioners were present:
Joseph Figaroa, Chairperson
Maurice Nakahara, Vice Chairperson
Nathaniel Childs
Linda Dela Cruz
Luke Evslin
Patrick Gegen
John Lydgate
Absent and excused:
2 Vacancies
The following staff members were present: Nani Sadora, Duke Nakamatsu, and Deputy County
Attorney Ian Jung.
CALL TO ORDER
Chair Figaroa called the meeting to order at 1:14 p.m.
ANNOUNCEMENTS
There were no announcements by staff.
Councilmember Tim Bynum announced that he wanted to attend the meeting today and
also request some agenda time at a future meeting to discuss public access and open space issues
that the Council has worked on in the past and that he will be working on in the future. He is
happy for the legislature that the Council passed that provides more clarity to the role of the
Commission and provides opportunity for the Commission to engage in things that the public has
requested in the past. His view is that past restrictions are lifted and the Commission has more
latitude to resolve and deal with some of the issues. He supports the idea of citizens'
commissions working in concert with elected officials and the Mayor to accomplish common
goals.
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Commissioner Childs questioned if there is a specific date that he would like to make the
presentation.
Councilman Bynum stated that he would probably be ready within a month. He is doing
some research and working on some issues and would like some input from the Commission.
Commissioner Gegen noted that the meeting one month from now would be on
September 27.
Chair Figaroa thanked Councilmember Bynum for his presentation.
APPROVAL OF MEETING MINUTES
Regular meeting minutes of 7/26/12.
On the motion by Linda Dela Cruz and seconded by Nathaniel Childs to approve
the meeting minutes of 7/26/12, the motion carried by unanimous voice vote.
Regular meeting minutes of 8/09/12.
On the motion by Nathaniel Childs and seconded by Linda Dela Cruz to approve
the meeting minutes o 8/09/12, the motion carried by unanimous voice vote.
RECEIPT OF ITEMS FOR THE RECORD
There were no items to receive for the record.
UNFINISHED BUSINESS
Status on acquisition plan for a portion of TMK(4) 2-6-003:017 to obtain a
pedestrian public beach access easement to Kukuiula Bay through the former Hoban
property.
Ms. Sadora stated that this topic arose during the report presentation to the Mayor. She
noted that the initial cost of the original appraisal was $4500. They were unable to locate an on-
island appraiser who has the expertise for an easement appraisal. The Mayor was supportive in
using the original appraiser, Hallstrom Group, Inc., since most of the front end research is
already done. She is awaiting their final quote before they move forward with the purchase
order. She stated that once they receive approval, they will need to do an initial visit. If they are
able to find comparables, the timeline should be couple of weeks.
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Deputy County Attorney Jung stated that he had been in contact with the land owner's
attorney two months ago. After the Mayor's meeting he was unable to contact the attorney who
is currently on vacation. He left a message with the secretary on whether they would like to wait
until they receive the appraisal before they begin discussions on a purchase price. There was
discussion regarding a potential friendly condemnation, but they would need to determine
concessions in terms of building walls to alleviate impacts. Since there is a pool next to the
easement, they would like to look into perhaps building a wall. He will be in contact with the
attorney.
Chair Figaroa questioned if they were able to secure an on-island appraiser.
Ms. Sadora stated that on-island appraisers didn't feel they had the expertise to appraise
only an easement so they are going with Hallstrom Group, Inc. on Oahu who did the initial
appraisal. They are unable to do an updated appraisal since it was last done in 2007, so it will
have to be re-appraised. She stated that as soon as they provide an estimate, they can proceed
with the procurement process. She noted that the original $4500 was not the usual fee and did
not include travel expenses. She is still trying to negotiate the cost.
Commissioner Childs stated that the last appraisal was done in 2007 so the value should
be significantly less to purchase the easement now. He noted that it would be worth doing the
appraisal if the purchase price will be lower.
Deputy County Attorney Jung noted that they will require an appraisal for a
condemnation.
Commissioner Evslin questioned if the Commission would need to take further action
once the appraisal is completed.
Deputy County Attorney Jung stated that the recommendation already went to Council
through a dossier to pursue the access, so if he is able to negotiate a price with the land owner,
they would have to go to Council for appropriate the funds through Ordinance. It would be up to
the Council to take action. If they are unable to negotiate a price, he would need to execute a
condemnation resolution and obtain Council's concurrence and then move through the court.
Commissioner Evslin questioned if 100% of the funds would be from the Open Space
Fund.
Deputy County Attorney Jung stated that they can start looking at other options such as
grants. He noted that Kauai was the last recipient of Legacy Lands funding so they would
probably want to spread their funds to other islands, but they can still try.
Commissioner Nakahara questioned the possibility of the funding from the Kukuiula
Ordinance.
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Ms. Sadora noted that staff can speak with the Parks & Recreation Department since they
are now the beneficiary of those funds.
Deputy County Attorney Jung stated that there is also a money bill option from Council,
but he thinks that the price would probably be low enough to utilize the Open Space funds.
Chair Figaroa stated that it would be best to utilize part of the fund in combination with
other sources.
NEW BUSINESS
Report and discussion on the Commission's presentation of the County of Kauai,
Public Access, Open Space, & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission 2011
Report to the Mayor.
Ms. Sadora noted that she attended the presentation to the Mayor with Chair Figaroa and
Commissioner Gegen last Wednesday. The overall meeting was very positive. The Mayor was
appreciative of the Commission's work in producing the report and questioned the desire of the
Commission and what they thought could be acquired with the help of the Administration or
Council. They noted that the access to Kukuiula Bay was on the list. The Mayor was supportive
of pursuing the appraisal. At least two other sites on the list are being considered by the Mayor,
but because they are still in the planning stages and the Mayor will keep the Commission
updated as information becomes available. They informed the Mayor that Commission would
also support any of the past recommendations if it will help to get things moving. She felt that it
was overall a positive report and his feedback was good.
Chair Figaroa agreed that the Mayor shared the same enthusiasm as the Commission
regarding accomplishing the recommendations. The Mayor was supportive and encouraged
them to continue the work they are doing.
Ms. Sadora stated that the Mayor highlighted ongoing issues with Black Pot and they are
looking at the master plan.
Commissioner Gegen stated that the Mayor was enthusiastic.
Commissioner Childs questioned if there was any constructive criticism from the Mayor.
Ms. Sadora felt that the Mayor realized that as much as the Commission may want to
acquire beach accesses and open spaces, he also understood the challenges of liability and other
issues that arise. He encouraged the Commission to keep driving despite the challenges and to
keep doing the job they are doing.
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Commissioner Gegen stated that the Mayor highlighted that the Commission does not
have to purchase the properties themselves. They can create partnerships with the State and
other entities.
Ms. Sadora stated that they brought up the new Ordinance and that the Commission will
be exploring partnerships and champions.
Review and discussion on past recommendations and prioritization of the
Commission's work plan/timeline of events and activities through 2012.
Chair Figaroa suggested listing all of the properties and their current standing to
determine which sites are farthest along, and then updating their priorities.
Commissioner Gegen questioned if the identified properties in the report were prioritized.
Chair Figaroa stated that the sites were listed in priority order.
Ms. Sadora noted that the Commission tried a number of different methods in the past
including listing the recommendations by priority, geographically, and by public input. She
agreed that it would be good to review the sites that have been on the recommendation list since
2005.
Chair Figaroa stated that some of the recommendations can be removed from the list. He
noted that Black Pot will be acquired.
Ms. Sadora noted that they also separated the list of parcels from beach accesses.
Commissioner Gegen questioned by they were working on the Hoban property and not
Salt Pond, Piwai, or Kaneiolouma.
Ms. Sadora stated that they acted on whatever was able to move. She noted that former
Commissioner Kinnaman kept the Hoban project moving. She stated that it related to the
Kukuiula Ordinance.
Chair Figaroa stated that when they submitted their list of recommendations, they
determined how they would prioritize the list,but how they moved on them was based on what
actions were already taken.
Commissioner Gegen stated that some sites would have a larger impact on the
community and on potential tourism. He noted that the Council questioned how the sites are
ranked and the driving force. He is glad they are moving on the Hoban property,but his thought
is that it will affect a smaller amount of people. He questioned if that is as valuable as if they
could have made some advancement on Salt Pond Park where there are 50 cars most days of the
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week. He noted they only have so much staff time and he would prefer going after the big
hitters.
Commissioner Childs stated that they should do a thorough review of the properties. He
noted that they agreed to prioritize Salt Pond because it would affect the most people and the
parcel they were considering is owned by the State so they can acquire it for a relatively small
fee. He noted that they also need Council to act on it. The reason they went after Hoban was
because there was actually funding set aside for that easement through the Kukuiula Ordinance.
If they can still access that fund, it would be relatively easy to acquire. Salt Pond would be more
difficult to acquire and require more time.
Commissioner Gegen questioned the foot work that was done by the Commission. He
stated that they discussed the timeline and the processes, and staff needs to know which project
to work on.
Commissioner Childs agreed that they should do a thorough review of all the properties.
Commissioner Gegen stated that he would like to see the prioritization and how they are
ranking the properties. He stated that if 20 people testify in support of a project, they may be the
only 20 people that utilize it. He stated that he is not being critical of any of the selections,but
he would like to know the process. They also need to consider the amount of people affected
and if it is truly opening it up to the community and the visitors.
Chair Figaroa stated that there are the nine purposes of the fund.
Commissioner Gegen stated that they are criteria that allow the Commission to include
recommendation,but it doesn't prioritize them. The scope is defined,but he questioned the
priority within the scope.
Chair Figaroa agreed that they should update how they prioritize,but he noted that
sometimes there isn't as much community support and sometimes not as much Council support.
Commissioner Gegen stated that he understands the support issues, but noted that they
should be acting independent of the Council and the Administration to a certain point.
The recommendations should be representing the people in the community. If Salt Pond doesn't
have Council support, it doesn't mean they should give up on it. If the Commission believes it to
be a priority, they should continue to work on it, discuss it with the Administration, Parks &
Recreations Department and determine how else they can do it. He stated that the problem is
that he hasn't seen the criteria. He is not asking for a re-prioritization, but the rationale.
Ms. Sadora stated that Commissioner Gegen has a valid question. She noted that every
year has been different. When the Commission was first created there was an extensive criteria
list. The process took months for a consensus on whether to list it by priority, geographically, or
according to years past. She stated that the Commission may want to reorganize the criteria as
they feel it fits on how it can be more beneficial. She stated that last year the Commissioners
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voted on the priority list so it wasn't necessarily prioritized by community support. The process
varied according to the particular body that was seated. As they revisit the list they will have an
idea whether they want to use it or define something more solid.
Commissioner Gegen clarified that they should have something to back up their
recommendations.
Commissioner Childs stated that there is always justification. It was a long process in
determining the priority list. The Commission conducted surveys and public meetings and
invested a lot of time in determining the sites. In the Commission's opinion, Salt Pond was the
best priority for the community and the island and would be relatively cheap to acquire. He
understands that the process wasn't printed in the report.
Commissioner Gegen stated that they haven't acted on the first three priorities as much as
the other recommendations, so if Hoban was the recommendation that they decided to pursue for
whatever reason, that should have been the first priority so that staff can focus from the top
down.
Commissioner Childs stated that they executed a dossier for the Hoban property.
Ms. Sadora stated that as the role of the Commission has changed with the introduction of
the new Ordinance, there is an acquisition plan that needs to accompany the recommendations.
Before the new Ordinance, it was just a recommendation with no activity beyond providing the
list. Because the reports are submitted every two years, they should have the backup behind the
recommendations including the work that has been done. She stated that the process and plan
can now be created and included in the report. They will be meeting with the Council's Planning
Committee to discuss the suggestions that they have on the Ordinance and their input on what
they will be looking at.
Commissioner Nakahara stated that he understands Commissioner Gegen's frustration.
He was new on the Commission in 2010 when he attended the presentation to the Council. At
that time they presented the list in no priority order, because the Council had individual likes and
dislikes regarding certain recommendations. However, certain Council members questioned why
the report was not prioritized. So, in 2011, the Commission decided to again prioritize the list,
but then the Council members had their own interests and questioned why certain sites were not
included in the list. He agreed that they can be organized and not subject to the whim of
everyone else. He stated that he is just as frustrated and he needs to understand how government
works.
Commissioner Gegen thanked Commissioner Nakahara and agreed that there were
concerns expressed at Council and why the Poipu Beach expansion was not included in the 2011
list. He heard a number of reasons on the field trip why the Commission felt they shouldn't
pursue it. He felt that if they had a prioritization, they could have justified it as not being the
most benefit for the most people, or for the most historical reasons. It also has to do with asking
staff to follow up on it. If Salt Pond is the priority,he should be able to hear an update every two
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weeks on what has been done, such as meetings with Parks & Recreation, the State or the people
at the salt pans.
Chair Figaroa stated that because the Commission did not have the updated Ordinance
and the expanded roles, they were strictly a recommending body and they were all frustrated.
With the passage of the Ordinance, they can actually get involved. He agreed that they could
update how they systemize things, but they couldn't do that in the past.
Commissioner Gegen agreed that they can now get involved in pursuing the accesses so it
is a good reason to review past recommendations, see what else is out there, and determine what
would be the best use of staff time and be able to clearly articulate why they are pursuing the
recommendations.
Chair Figaroa stated that they can have that discussion on the next agenda. He suggested
that the commissioners list the things they want to see included in the system by the next
meeting.
Commissioner Nakahara noted that the year is almost over.
Commissioner Dela Cruz agreed that now would be a good time to review the process
since they have new Commissioners on board with two new appointees forthcoming.
Chair Figaroa stated that it would be helpful for new commissioners to have an
orientation to understand what happened in the past and where they are now. He requested that
Commissioners develop their list of prioritized criteria and asked staff to create a list of four or
five things new commissioners should know.
Commissioner Childs clarified that they will be re-evaluating the criteria. He requested a
review of the recommendation list on a future agenda. He stated that it would be good to have
the discussion on criteria first.
Commissioner Gegen agreed that they should discuss the criteria first so they have
something to base the recommendations upon.
Commissioner Evslin noted that it would be hard to have objective criteria because every
property will be different. He questioned if the old criteria was a rating system.
Commissioner Childs stated that it has been different every year, and it literally takes a
year to come up with the report.
Commissioner Dela Cruz stated that as new commissioners came aboard, they were
carrying over what wasn't finished.
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Commissioner Childs stated that they printed surveys in the newspapers, conducted an
online survey, and held public forums. He stated that they had over 100 people attend the Piwai
forum and there was great feedback. He questioned the status of that recommendation.
Deputy County Attorney Jung stated that it is still on the list.
Commissioner Childs stated that they could only submit their recommendations to the
Council and hope that they moved on Salt Pond.
Commissioner Evslin questioned if it was ultimately up to the Commission to decide and
whether or not it was based on the number of supporters.
Commissioner Childs stated that it was ultimately up to the Commission to decide.
Commissioner Dela Cruz stated that they conducted surveys in the past with very poor
response. They also held public meetings that turned out to be a fiasco. She stated that it is a
very challenging process.
Chair Figaroa stated that they developed a rating system and conducted a process of
elimination. The previous year, the Council requested all of the properties that were
recommended. Then when they did that,they were criticized for having too many
recommendations. So, they decided to limit the recommendations to three. Then they were
criticized for only having three.
Commissioner Dela Cruz stated that in the beginning they wanted around seven
recommendations.
Commissioner Childs noted that last year, after the Commission conducted their surveys
and public meetings and narrowed their recommendations down to three using a point system,
two weeks before the report was published, a Commissioner brought up the possibility of
including the Poipu property into the recommendations. The Commission voted to not include
that recommendation, and a Councilmember was upset that it was not included.
Commissioner Evslin stated that it seems the power of a citizen Commission is that they
aren't beheld to any constituents. His passion is open space and natural resources. He stated that
it seems like they should ignore what other people are fighting for.
Commissioner Gegen stated that he wasn't suggesting a totally objective system, but at
least having criteria available if they are questioned at Council, so they can provide their
justification as to why they felt one recommendation was more important than the other.
Commissioner Evslin stated that he agrees with Commissioner Gegen. He clarified that
he was trying to understand whether the criteria was done and they didn't vote or if they just
voted.
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Chair Figaroa stated that the Commission can now become more involved. They can
learn from the past and move on to the future.
COMMISSION EDUCATION
Status update regarding upcoming public access workshop.
Deputy County Attorney Jung stated that Native Hawaiian Legal Corp.,Na Ala Hele, and
the Planning Department agreed to present at the workshop. He questioned the best date.
Chair Figaroa stated that some commissioners would not be available in October.
Commissioner Gegen stated that they felt October 25 would be the earliest possible date
in hopes that the two new commissioners would be on board to hear the workshop.
Chair Figaroa stated that November 8 would be best for him.
Deputy County Attorney Jung noted that Tom Shigemoto presented two years ago. He
would check if he is available to present from the perspective of a large land owner.
Commissioner Childs questioned the status of the vacant commissioner positions.
Deputy County Attorney Jung stated that he informed the Office of Boards &
Commissions that they need two more commissioners. He noted that one of the discussion
points was whether or not the Commission wants to continue with two meetings a month or once
a month. He stated that criteria are important, but the reality is that the Commission is advisory
and Council makes the ultimate decision. How they structure their policy in the advisory
package is up to the Commission. They can continue meeting twice a month or meet once a
month. It all depends on how they characterize their criteria to develop the research needed for
each project.
Chair Figaroa stated that it would be good to discuss.
Deputy County Attorney Jung stated that they have four takes for their workshop; native
Hawaiian customary and traditional accesses, County access process, State trails through Na Ala
Hele, and they will get a large land owner for a panel. He suggested identifying questions for the
panel at a meeting prior to the workshop.
The Commission agreed to hold the public access workshop on November 8.
NEXT MEETING DATE AND AGENDA TOPICS FOR DISCUSSION
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Chair Figaroa noted that unfinished business would include the review and discussion on
past recommendations and prioritization of the Commission's work plan. He suggested a bullet
item to include the discussion on meeting days.
Commissioner Childs requested a re-evaluation of criteria.
Chair Figaroa requested creation of an orientation packet be included on the agenda.
Deputy County Attorney Jung stated that they discussed reviewing the list of priorities.
Chair Figaroa stated that they decided to establish the criteria first then organize the
priorities.
Commissioner Childs stated that they can include it on the agenda and they can always
defer.
Deputy County Attorney Jung stated that he will request that staff email the Legacy
Lands criteria for their properties and that will provide a foundation.
Commissioner Gegen stated that it would be a good idea if they want to pursue Legacy
Lands funding.
Chair Figaroa requested concluding the criteria by end of 2012. He questioned the
update on the State and County initiative on managing parks.
Deputy County Attorney Jung stated that the Deputy Director left DLNR so he is not sure
if the program is still alive. He will check and report back to the Commission. He stated that the
County and State parks wanted to create a collective responsibility docket where if a State park
was out of toilet paper and a County truck was in the vicinity, the County truck could provide the
refill, but they would have to sort out the details and how the union contracts apply. He will
determine if the initiative is still alive.
Commissioner Childs stated that they need to include Councilmember Bynum's
presentation.
Commissioner Gegen stated that Councilmember Bynum was requesting a presentation
on September 27 which would be the following meeting.
Deputy County Attorney Jung noted that the Hawaii Congress of Planning Officials will
be held on September 12-14. He, Chair Figaroa, Commissioner Dela Cruz, and Ms. Sadora will
be attending the conference.
Chair Figaroa questioned if the Commission would still like to meet on September 13.
Commissioner Childs stated that he would prefer to meet as much as possible.
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Commissioner Gegen expressed concern that the Chair and Commissioner Dela Cruz
would not be present when developing the criteria, but also would like to see things keep
moving.
Commissioner Childs stated that if there is still quorum they should at least have a
discussion.
Commissioner Gegen stated that they can at least have some of the footwork done.
The Commission agreed to meet on September 13.
Chair Figaroa noted that election of officers will be held in September.
Deputy County Attorney Jung stated that the Vice Chair could take over and run the
elections. He noted that there is a script as to how the procedure works.
The Commission decided to wait for September 27 for the election of officers.
Chair Figaroa clarified that unfinished business will include the status of acquisition plan
for access to Kukuiula, review and discussion of the prioritization of the Commission's work
plan to include the criteria list. He requested an orientation packet be added to the agenda.
Ms. Sadora stated that a packet is sent to new commissioners including information on
the Commission, but does not include information on how the Commission manages itself.
Commissioner Childs stated that knowing what the ongoing projects are would be
helpful.
Ms. Sadora noted that the orientation includes an introduction, the Ordinance, the
Charter, the Rules of the Commission, the Sunshine Law, and the current report. She also meets
with new commissioners prior to their first meeting.
Commissioner Gegen stated that they can come up with ideas at the next meeting.
Ms. Sadora stated that staff will provide a list of what is included in the orientation
packet from staff and the Commission can discuss whatever else they would like to add.
Commissioner Evslin stated that the orientation was good, but it would be helpful to
understand the process on how the recommendations come to the Commission.
Commissioner Childs requested another bullet under Commission's work plan for the list
of recommendations including those from the surveys.
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Commissioner Dela Cruz requested an update on the status of the two commissioner
vacancies.
Chair Figaroa requested an outlined list of presenters who will be attending for the public
access workshop. He questioned the update on Kauapea.
Deputy County Attorney Jung stated that he will have an update on September 27.
Chair Figaroa noted that the next meeting will be on September 13. He thanked the
Commissioners for attending the meeting.
ADJOURNMENT
Chair Figaroa adjourned the meeting at 2:27 p.m.
Respectfully submitted by:
Duke Nakamatsu, Support Clerk
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