HomeMy WebLinkAbout2013_1028_Minutes Open_APPROVED COUNTY OF KAUAI
Minutes of Meeting
OPEN SESSION
Approved as circulated 12/16/13
Board/Committee: CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION Meeting Date I October 28, 2013
Location Mo'ikeha Building, Meeting Room 2A 2B Start of Meeting: 4:00 p.m. End of Meeting: 6: 15 p.m.
Present Chair Jan TenBruggencate; Vice-Chair Ed Justus. Members: Joel Guy; James Nishida, Patrick Stack; Carol Suzawa
Also: Deputy County Attorney Jennifer Winn; Boards & Commissions Office Staff: Support Clerk Barbara Davis; Administrator
Paula Morikami. Audience Members: County Councilmember JoAnn Yukimura, Community Member Bert Lyon
Excused Member Mary Lou Barela
Absent
SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION
Call To Order Chair TenBruggencate called the meeting to
order at 4:00 pm with 6 Commissioners present.
The Chair said he would add the 2
communications from Bert Lyon to Item CRC
2013- 15 and the agenda stands approved as
submitted.
Approval of Regular Open Session Minutes of September 23, 2013 Mr. Justus moved to approve the minutes as
Minutes circulated. Mr. Guy seconded the motion.
Mr. Justus stated on Page 6 there was no record of him giving thanks to
Barbara for help with the language regarding the elections and districting;
he believes it is necessary to thank those who help the Commissioners. Motion to approve the minutes as corrected
carried 6:0
Business CRC 2013-03 Recommendations from legal analyst Curtis Shiramizu on
identifying and proposing non-substantive corrections and revisions to
Articles XXVII through XXXII of the Charter (On-going)
Noting Mr. Shiramizu was not available for this meeting, Chair
TenBruggencate requested a motion to defer the item to November. Mr. Justus moved to defer. Mr. Stack seconded
the motion. Motion carried 6:0
CRC 2013- 13 Discuss whether to propose a charter amendment to clarify
language as relates to the term removal in Section 19. 13 A (Deferred
9/23/13)
Charter Review Commission
Open Session
October 28, 2013 Page 2
SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION
Mr. Stack said he wanted to discuss whether there was a better alternative
for the term removal and what was meant by the word. Chair
TenBruggencate asked if it should be extended to say removal from office.
The Chair said for him cause for removal clearly meant removal from
office, and asked the Attorney if clarifying it to say removal from office
would be a substantive change. Attorney Winn said that would be a
substantive change. Mr. Nishida moved to receive CRC 2013-13.
Mr. Justus seconded the motion. Motion carried
6:0
CRC 2013-14 Section 32.01 County Auditor as it relates to electing the
county auditor instead of appointment by council
Section 22.06 Initiative and Referendum as it relates to the creation of a
subsection E requiring legal review
Section 7.01 Mayor as it relates to Term of Office and the removal of term
limits
Section 3.03 Council as it relates to Term of Office and the removal of
term limits
Article XXXIII New article creating an Attorney Commission for
oversight of the County Attorney's Office
Chair TenBruggencate said this series of amendments was proposed by
Mr. Justus and he would suggest looking at each proposal briefly, and if
the Commission deems them worthy of further serious discussion that they
become independent agenda items. At this point Chair TenBruggencate
mentioned he would not be at the next meeting and the Vice Chair would
be running the meeting to which Mr. Justus announced he would also not
Charter Review Commission
Open Session
October 28, 2013 Page 3
SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION
be at the November meeting.
Based on the absence of the Chair and Vice Chair at the next meeting,
Chair TenBruggencate recommended Mr. Stack, as a past Chair serve as
the Chair Pro-Tem. Mr. Nishida moved to elect Pat Stack as Chair
Pro-Tem for November. Mr. Justus seconded the
motion. Motion carried 5:0(Mr. Guy momentarily
out of the meeting room)
CRC 2013-15 Discussion and consideration of a proposal to elect
Councilmembers by district from seven roughly equal populated districts
With the arrival of Ms. Yukimura and Mr. Lyon, Chair TenBruggencate
moved to the item proposing the creation of seven roughly equal districts
to be elected by district for the County Council.
Ms. Yukimura provided written testimony (on file) and stated she was
there as an individual Councilmember. The key questions are, is the
present system broken, and if so in what way will districting solve the
ways it is broken or will it make things worse. Proposals on districting
will be a structural change on a very basic system, and will affect how
decisions are made on the County Council. The main question should be,
will this structure being proposed produce the best decisions for the
common good of the people of Kaua`i. It appears the part of the thrust for
districts is how to make it easier for candidates to run, but that should not
be the main question. It is harder to be a candidate in an at-large system,
and probably more expensive, but it may make for better decision making
that the candidate has to know about the whole island and the issues
around the island, both district issues as well as island-wide issues. With a
district system there is no incentive to know about the whole island, and
districts would create a momentum toward separation rather than unity. It
will put incentives on thinking by districts rather than thinking of the
Charter Review Commission
Open Session
October 28, 2013 Page 4
SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION
island or county as a whole. If a councilmember is accountable to
everybody they have to think about what the best decision would be.
When a councilmember has to vote for their district's interest because their
political future depends on it, it may not be for the higher good of the
island or the county. Ms. Yukimura does not think the population is large
enough at this point that it needs to be broken down by districts. When it
does get to that point, a system where the majority is elected at large will
still be very important. An at-large system gives voters more possibility of
representation that a districted system because of the probability that one
or more of your candidate choices get elected. There is also the possibility
that a district system will not allow the best candidates on the island to
surface and be elected.
Mr. Lyon provided written testimony (on file) and said he is a proponent of
council districting. It is Mr. Lyon's belief that the system is broken, and
that the council race is more of a popularity race. He further noted he
cannot remember a race where two councilmembers debated each other on
a single issue before the public. Mr. Lyon said he would prefer having one
vote in his district where he knows the candidates rather than seven votes
for people he does not really know, and does not know how they stand on
the issues by what they say during the campaigns. More often than not the
top seven vote getters are the top fundraisers. Mr. Lyons felt that Kaua`i
was now at the population point where the neighbor island had established
their forms of districting so he did not think Kaua`i was too small. Mr.
Lyon provided a worksheet to the Commission showing the population
breakdown for a 7 district proposal. If districting goes to the ballot it may
as well go pure districting because mixing districting with at-large does get
confusing. He said he wants to have the opportunity for a minority voice
to be on the council. Mr. Lyon also stated that within the last 24 hours he
became a strong supporter of the 7 district council. Chair TenBruggencate
thanked Mr. Lyon for the remarkable amount of work he put in on the
Charter Review Commission
Open Session
October 28, 2013 Page 5
SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION
worksheets provided to the Commission.
Chair TenBruggencate suggested the Commission look at taking this issue
to some type of public forum. Attorney Winn pointed out at the last
meeting the motion for a panel to take this issue to public forum failed, and
currently there is no motion on the floor. Mr. Guy felt they had gone to the
public, whether it was electronic or meetings in Lrhu`e, and stated this is
the public forum. Mr. Justus moved to accept this item as a Charter
amendment.
Attorney Winn stated the main motion was deferred to this meeting and
had not been voted on yet. Mr. Justus called for the vote. Mr. Guy seconded
the motion.
Attorney Winn explained they would be voting on the exact language
proposed, and then it would have to go to the Attorney's Office for legal
review with the results coming back to the Commission. The Commission
would then have one more opportunity to vote on whether the proposed
amendment would go on the ballot.
Ms. Suzawa pointed out that in the past it appeared that during the
meetings there was support for an amendment on the county manager
proposal. When it went out to community meetings, the outcome was very
different from what was discussed at the Commission meetings. This
proposal should be given the same opportunity rather than setting it up for
misunderstanding later. Attorney Winn said that was voted down at the
last meeting.
Mr. Justus asked if the language in the packet is what the Attorney would
review. Attorney Winn said yes. Mr. Justus said the language in the
packet is not suitable for Charter language. Attorney Winn said the proper
format is not at issue; it is whether or not the Commission has the authority
to do this. Attorney Winn said she would assume this is the language the
Charter Review Commission
Open Session
October 28, 2013 Page 6
SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION
Commission wants, and it would just be a matter of placing the brackets
and underscores at a later time. Chair TenBruggencate called a recess at 5:22 p.m.
The meeting resumed at 5:30 p.m.
Chair TenBruggencate said he misunderstood and thought the language
could be written later if the concept was approved. He further stated that
Mr. Justus said he could put together the proper language if the
Commission could recess for an additional ten minutes.
Mr. Nishida moved to defer this item until such
time as it can be taken out for public meeting.
Attorney Winn pointed out that a subcommittee took the issue of the
county manager to public meetings, which did not require agenda postings.
Chair TenBruggencate said they could establish a full public hearing in
this room or multiple hearings in multiple locations. Attorney Winn said
the public can attend the meetings at any time;this is not a body that is
required to hold public hearings. Mr. Nishida moved that a subcommittee of 3
members go out to the public for a series of
meetings to chit chat about districting. Ms.
Suzawa seconded the motion.
Mr. Justus reminded the Commission they do not have the proper language
to vote on, and he is requesting ten minutes to put the proper language
together. Attorney Winn stated the main motion still has not been voted
on. Chair TenBruggencate said he understood the proposal is to defer this
matter until such time as a 3 member subcommittee has been formed to go
out and hold public meetings. Mr. Nishida added that it is based on what
was currently submitted, not the new proper language.
Mr. Stack said there is already a subcommittee to which Attorney Winn
advised the Commission that subcommittee had completed its function so a
new subcommittee would be required. Mr. Guy asked why they were
forming a new committee to go back out on districting to which the
response was because it is the motion on the floor. Mr. Justus said he
Charter Review Commission
Open Session
October 28, 2013 Page 7
SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION
understood the desire to go out and get the public's opinion, but it is also
important to consider that the people who show up to public meetings do
not necessarily represent the majority of people who vote;they may be the
majority in the room, but not necessarily represent the majority, which
makes it difficult to gauge what the public's reaction is. The best way to
get the public's opinion is to ask them on a ballot. Motion to take this districting proposal to the
public carried 4:2 (nay-Justus; Guy)
Chair TenBruggencate appointed Ed Justus,
Jimmy Nishida and Joel Guy to the subcommittee
to go out to the public, gauge their reaction on a 7
district proposal with a report back to the
Commission as a whole at the February meeting.
Attorney Winn reminded the Commission that the body cannot discuss the
report until the next meeting; if the Commission votes favorably it goes to
the Attorney for legal review, with no guarantee of a specific turn-around
time, and then it returns to the Commission for a final vote. Chair
TenBruggencate asked if other commissioners could show up at the
meetings if they stand quietly in the back. After explaining that would
require a posted agenda, Chair TenBruggencate questioned the first
amendment rights to which Attorney Winn said first amendment rights are
different when it is part of their job. Asked if the subcommittee needs the
language for the ballot question, Attorney Winn said that could be part of
the report they provide. The subcommittee can make recommendations in
their report to amend the proposal, but they cannot amend it on their own.
Chair TenBruggencate said that Ms. Morikami had pointed out the fourth
paragraph on Tie Votes does not make any sense given a 7 member district
and recommended removing those three lines. Attorney Winn cautioned
that if the Chair was going to start amending the proposal then all the
changes should be made and put into Ramsayer format. Mr. Nishida moved to remove the three lines
Charter Review Commission
Open Session
October 28, 2013 Page 8
SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION
regarding Tie Votes.
Mr. Stack moved to recess the meeting at 5:48
p.m. to allow Mr. Justus to make the necessary
changes to the proposal. Mr. Justus seconded the
motion. Motion carried 6:0
The meeting was called back to order at 6:02 p.m.
Chair TenBruggencate said there is a proposal on the floor, which would
require a motion to amend the language for a 7 member district. Mr. Justus so moved. Ms. Suzawa seconded the
motion.
Mr. Justus explained the only changes made in Section 1.03 were changing
"at-large"to "district". Motion to amend the proposal for a 7 member
district carried 6:0
Mr. Stack made a motion to reconsider the vote
just taken on districting. Motion died for a lack of
a second.
(continued) Chair TenBruggencate recommended because of the late hour that the
Commission simply vote on whether the items proposed go on the next
meeting's agenda as separate items.
CRC 2013-14 Section 32.01 County Auditor as it relates to electing the
county auditor instead of appointment by council Mr. Justus moved to place §32.01 on the
November agenda as a separate item. Motion
died for lack of a second.
Section 22.06 Initiative and Referendum as it relates to the creation of a
subsection E requiring legal review Mr. Justus moved to place §22.06 on the
November agenda as a separate item. Mr. Guy
seconded the motion. Motion carried 5:1 (nay-
Charter Review Commission
Open Session
October 28, 2013 Page 9
SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION
Nishida)
Section 7.01 Mayor as it relates to Term of Office and the removal of term
limits Mr. Justus moved to place §7.01 on the
November agenda as a separate item. Ms.
Suzawa seconded the motion. Motion carried
4:2 (nay-Guy, TenBruggencate)
Section 3.03 Council as it relates to Term of Office and the removal of
term limits Mr. Justus moved to place §3.03 on the
November agenda as a separate item. Ms.
Suzawa seconded the motion. Motion carried
4:2 (nay-Guy, TenBruggencate)
Article XXXIII New article creating an Attorney Commission for
oversight of the County Attorney's Office Mr. Justus moved to place Article XXXIII on the
November agenda as a separate item. Mr. Stack
seconded the motion. Motion failed 2:4 (nays-
Nishida, Suzawa, Guy, TenBruggencate)
Announcements Next Meeting: Monday, November 25, 2013, 4:00 p.m.
Commissioner Stack will chair that meeting. Chair TenBruggencate
requested that the December meeting be moved up so as not to interfere
with the holidays. Staff to confirm the availability of December 16 as the
meeting date.
Adjournment Chair TenBruggencate adjourned the meeting at
6:15 p.m.
Submitted by: Reviewed and Approved by:
Barbara Davis, Support Clerk Jan TenBruggencate, Chair
Charter Review Commission
Open Session
October 28, 2013 Page 10
( ) Approved as is.
( ) Approved with amendments. See minutes of meeting.