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Home My WebLink About20101001131751559KAUAI COUNTY HISTORIC PRESERVATION REVIEW COMMISSION Lihue Civic Center, Moikeha Building, Meeting Room 2A/2B MINUTES A regular meeting of the Kauai County Historic Preservation Commission (KHPRC) was held on August 5, 2010 in the Lihue Civic Center, Moikeha Building, Meeting Room 2A/2B. The following Commissioners were present: Randy Wiehman, Chairperson, Danita Aiu, Vice Chairperson, David Helder, Kuuleialoha Santos, Patsy Sheehan, and Molly Summers. The following Commissioner was absent: Dennis Alkire and Alan Faye, Jr SWEARING IN OF NEW COMMISSIONERS Commissioners Kuuleialoha Santos and David Helder were sworn in by Peter Nakamura, County Clerk. CALL TO ORDER Chairperson Wichman called the meeting to order at 3:05 p.m. APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA The agenda was approved as circulated. APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES The Minutes were approved as circulated. ANNOUNCEMENTS AND GENERAL BUSINESS MATTERS There were no Announcements and General Business Matters. August 5, 2010 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 2 COMMUNICATIONS Re: Letter (2/8/2010) from Aulii Mitchell, Director, Cultural Surveys Hawaii requesting input for a Cultural Impact Assessment for the proposed Halelea Village Shop Project which includes a commercial/office area with associated off street parking, a cluster of residences and an open space preserve, Hanalei Ahupuaa, Halelea District, Kauai Island, TMK: 5- 5- 010:066, 068, 069,081. Chair: We are moving on to communications, letter from Aulii Mitchell, Cultural Surveys requesting a cultural impact assessment for proposed Halelea Village Shop Projects. Is there, are you here for this? Mr. Gerald Iida: I can be. Chair: Is there anybody here? You know what we are going to do anyways but if you are prepared to speak on it. Mr. Iida: Yes this thing keeps showing up on your agenda. Chair: It does and then we are going to say good bye to it soon. Mr. Iida: Basically it is standard operating procedure to let you guys know when we embark on something like this. If you guys have suggestions on people we should be talking to I believe that is what this letter is about. At this point draft of the CIA is done (inaudible). Chair: Ok. Alright after our discussions we are going to take a motion to accept this but normally what we do in these particular cases is within the Hanalei district we are going to give out a few names for them to contact for historical background in this particular area. Commissioners I know we have been seeing this in our meetings twice now so we need to get you caught up about it. So I think by the next meeting you will be fully up on this particular property and the parameters. Right now we are looking at names of Hanalei that know the Hanalei area really good that we can make recommendations for Cultural Surveys. Mr. Helder: Kathy Ham Young. Chair: Yes Kathy Ham Young. We also have the Yokotake family also who are long term residents of Hanalei. Mr. Helder: I'll call and get you a list. Chair: We can go through some of the family names. Ms. Sheehan: Can I say something? Chair: Of course. August 5, 2010 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 3 Ms. Sheehan: Aulii has done oral history. He has done oral interviews. He has done individually and with Yokotakes. He has a list on almost three pages. So what he has done, we haven't seen that result yet. We haven't seen it written up yet but he has three pages of people that he has been working on which I think off the top of our head would be everybody we could think of and a few people in Kilauea, a lot of people in Haena. But we haven't seen the final draft of that but it might be in the office. So we are still working on that and the permit has not gone it yet. So it's not to the degree (inaudible). Chair: So at this particular point then we don't need to go into the (inaudible) but we usually recommend that several meetings take place in Hanalei in regards to it but I think that has already been done, that is happening already. So at this particular point Commissioners we need a motion to accept the information provided and to transmit our comments. Mr. Helder: So moved. Ms. Summers: Second. Chair: It's been moved and seconded. Is there anyone in the audience that which to speak on this agenda matter? (None.) Thank you. Any further discussions? (None.) All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote.) Any opposed? (None.) Re: Letter from Ken Tatsuguchi, Engineering Program Manager, State of Hawaii, Department of Transportation, Highways Division requesting the opportunity to provide an update and to seek consultation with the KHPRC pursuant to Section 106 of the National Historic Preservation Act and Advisory Council on Historic Preservation's regulations for Protection of Historic Properties (36 CFR Part 800), Kuhio Highway Short -Term Improvements, Kuamoo Road to Temporary Bypass Road, Project No. 56- A- 01 -06. Chair: Communications B.2 letter from Ken Tatsuguchi, Engineering Program Manager, State of Hawaii, DOT, pursuant to Section 106. Is there? You are here please come forward. Mr. Ray McCormick: Good afternoon I am Ray McCormick with the Hawaii Department of Transportation, Kauai District this is Tracy Fukuda with Wilson Okamoto and Associates out of Honolulu. We would like to thank you for your time today. What we would like to do is update on the project that we discussed with you back in 2009. It's the Kuhio Highway Short Term Improvements from the temporary by -pass up to the Wailua Bridge. And what we would like to do is open up consultation with you under Section 106 under the National Historic Preservation Act. We have been working with the Native Hawaiian organization for the past several months with various meetings both group and individually. We are still in that process. With that I can answer questions but I will leave it up to Tracy to go through all of the details. Ms. Tracy Fukuda: Good afternoon since you have a couple new commissioners I'll give you a project overview. Ok so DOT as Ray has mentioned is proposing the Kuhio Highway short term August 5, 2020 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 4 improvements from Kuamoo Road to the temporary bypass road. That project includes four elements. One is the roadway widening. So one south bound lane will be added on Kuhio Highway on the mauka side from the temporary bypass road to Kuamoo Road and that will also include a right turn lane fronting the Coco Palms property on to Kuamoo Road. The second element is the Kuamoo Road improvements and they are going to extend the right turn storage lane about three hundred feet to address the morning backup. That's on Kuamoo Road turning south bound onto Kuhio Highway. The third element is the addition of a signified intersection or traffic signal at the intersection of Lanikai and Kuhio Highway where Kintaro Restaurant is. Chair: That's a new one for us, the light. Ms. Fukuda: So there once the south bound lane is added that intersection the makai southbound lane will be a through lane and a left turn lane. So I think it's just a left turn and then coining out of Lanikai it will be two lanes, one for right turn lane and then one for left turn lane. And the other modification would be at Papaloa Road and Kuhio Highway there will only be allowed a right turn in and right turn out from Papaloa Road so the left turn will be restricted. Chair: Which road are you? Ms. Fukuda: That is where the Shell gas station is. Chair: Oh ok yes. Ms. Fukuda: So only a right turn from Kuhio Highway to Papaloa Road and then when you are coming out only right turn. So when you are coming south bound no left turns will be allowed and then when you are coming out of Papaloa Road no left turn onto Kuhio Highway. You would have to utilize the Lanikai Lighted intersection. Ms. Sheehan: Does that make it a one way road or is it becoming a one way road then? Ms. Fukuda: Papaloa? No. There will still be one lane in each direction so two lane road. And then the fourth element is the undergrounding of the existing utility lines and poles underground and that. is in response to mitigate the impact to endangered shearwaters as you folks know is the hot spot for that endangered species. All the utilities electrical, phone, cable will be placed underground from Aleka Loop all the way down to KIUC's Lydgate substation at South Leho Drive. Chair: Thereby eliminating all telephone poles. Ms. Fukuda: All overhead lines in that portion of the corridor. Mr. Helder: Will that bring telephone and everything down so there won't be any telephone? Ms. Fukuda: Yes. Mr, Helder: Will you point out where the new light is going to be? August 5, 2010 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 5 Ms. Fukuda: Right here. I'm sorry over here. Mr. Helder: By the Japanese Restaurant. Ms. Fukuda: I think there are some homes being built there. Mr. Helder: Yes it's all finished now. Ms. Fukuda: Are there any questions? Chair: Commissioners if you don't mind I would like to start. We have reviewed certain sections of this. I believe we are starting the Sectionl06 consultation process. Are you still ok with the original recommendation from this Commission? Ms. Fukuda: Yes that was from March you made the four recommendations. So the be aware of the stone wall extending along the old original government highway. So that was incorporated into the archeological assessment report. Chair: And that's for when they go underground to be aware of that particular bit right there. Ms. Fukuda: Yes that was included. Chair: And as the trenching comes along and approaches the river you are going through the old village of Makakiu although it's been disturbed by the road there is a chance of stratigraphy as you are moving through this corridor and then you are making the substation then you are going under the river from that point then running across right. Ms. Fukuda: Yes you are talking of going from south to north. Chair: Yes. Ms. Fukuda: Ok so I misunderstood the location of Makakiu. Chair: Yes Makakiu is in front of the heiau itself. It's right here. Makakiu is also the name of the north wind that blows there but this is the area of the old village right here. And then another one was cultural monitors. Ms. Fukuda: It said archeological monitor. Chair: As in cultural monitors, archeological monitor is different. Ms. Fukuda: So the archeological monitoring plan was approved but we will also have a cultural monitor during construction and that DOT is working on that with the Native Hawaiian organizations as to whom they would recommend and the criteria to look at. August 5, 2010 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 6 Chair: And can you tell me who you met, normally one, I am surprised I don't see it here, one of the recommendation are always the community meetings. One of them would be the Homestead Association, the other one would be Nakahuhikinaakala, and another one would be the Queen Debra Hawaiian Civic Club and others. Commissioner who just essentially did her term Kehau Kekua is one. Ms. Fukuda: Yes she has been communicating. Chair: And also Waldeen Palmeira and then the Homestead Association. Ms. Fukuda: As Ray has mentioned some of those Section 106 consultation has started at a meeting on February 12. Chair: A public meeting? Ms. Fukuda: It was with some of these people Waldeen, Kehaulani, Pua also attended so there was about a dozen people. Chair: Ok you are on the table with a bunch of them good ok. Ms. Fukuda: Then we had some other meetings on June 24th and then July 28'h/29th and we are continuing to meet with them. The next meeting has not been scheduled yet. Chair: And then the only other one is data recovery. Again when you are going through these cultural layers you know I need to go through some of the field books that's been done in the past. The field books are good right. The stratigraphy is being recorded as it's coming along in there right. That's really important. Ms. Fukuda: We have had Cultural Surveys have done a couple of archeological surveys for this project and with the growing concern of other potential resources DOT is also proposing some additional subsurface testing but we are working with Native Hawaiian organizations and individuals in regards to how that goes about. Chair: Yes and at some point we would love to be able to talk to Cultural Surveys cause I believe they have been a bunch of the archeological monitoring along those lines or Scientific Consultants too. They may have done just up the river where the canoe. Ms. Sheehan: Are you on time as far progress? Ms. Fukuda: No we are behind. And then you have all this information in your packet. Ms. Sheehan: Would you come back and give us an update on what you find. Ms. Fukuda: Sure. Definitely we are thinking the next meeting with -the Native Hawaiian organization and individuals will be early September but that is tentative. But we will keep you apprised of that as well. August 5, 2010 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 7 Chair: We appreciate that. We will see the notices in the paper for the public hearings. Ms. Fukuda: We have been putting notices in the Kawai Ola news letter as well as the Garden Isle and the Honolulu Star Advertiser. Chair: Commissioners any questions? (None.) I am going to open it up to the public. If you don't mind is there anyone here that wishes to speak on behalf of the corridor? The Wailua Corridor with all the proposals. Ms. Cheryl Lovell- Obatake: Thank you Mr. Chair for the records my name is Cheryl Lovell - Obatake. I am present here regarding the communication B.2 and the process of the Section 106. I have several concerns in fact clarification regarding legal notice that was in the newspaper. I wish that DOT would now at this present time show us now where your demarcation lines are as far as what was published in the newspaper for Hawaiian and practitioners to be present at the ACHP that you were having on consultation. Could you point out the demarcation lines Mr. Chair if I may? Ms. Fukuda: Oh sure. South Leho Drive and Kuhio Highway that's where the substation is located, north to Aleka Loop and Kuamoo Road. Ms. Lovell - Obatake: And this was published in the newspaper when you put out public notification regarding requesting people that new about the area. That's within the demarcation line. Is that my understanding? Ms. Fukuda: Yes and for the ahupuaa of Wailua. Ms. Lovell - Obatake: So the demarcation line is not too important if someone else were to comment for the mauka, is that demarcation line that is the only place that people could comment for? Ms. Fukuda: For this project it should be along this area of Kuhio Highway. Ms. Lovell - Obatake: Well because I see it in the newspaper that's why I wanted to clarify regarding the Section 106 which was published in the newspaper and what areas were you pointing out where concerns of 108 and cultural practices are. Mr. Chairman I should be talking to you. You know I am also concerned about you know the involvement of the Department of Public Works and even the States Engineering, you know if we want to protect, Mr. Chairman, historical properties that are at by history and by evidence and by archeological findings if this road is going to be I believe that in my opinion and you engineering department regarding the surfacing of the road you know because that is impervious surface and my concerns would be because of the impervious surface runoffs going off and where this historical sites are how are they going to be protected? Either by detention basins or whether they are the running in a registered fish pond that is at Coco Palms and also the auwai ditch that is under Kuamoo Road. You know I may have not been to your meetings but I have been reading a lot of information that is being circulated. In fact in only once did I go to the Department of Transportation and got to August 5, 2010 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 8 see the draft Environmental Assessment. My concerns are also kuleana lands and I know Gerald Iida of Hal's company and Aulii did record it in the DEA but to me it was a duplication which I could let that go from Coco Palms book because Okamoto was also the contractor for, which is now your contractor, and I was the one that requested the Wilma Holi be present at this Section 106 because she is the Kauai representative for Hui Malama and there are two entities, and I correct Mr. Chair, for burials; Hui Malama and Kauai/Niihau Island Burial Council. I was a former member for eight years start from I don't remember to 2000. And there have been some things that I have done and consecrated on certain portions on where the demarcation lines, inside the demarcation lines that's why I wanted some clarification. And there was a reinterment that I did when under Kauai Island/Niihau Burial Council on Greg Allen's property which is right next to Kaumualii Park and this is where this Kupuna but the iwi was found during my term and I was assigned to reinter and it's location is near the discharging area of where the Auwai that services the fish pond at the Coco Palms. Chair: Are you aware of the auwai she is talking about? She is talking about the auwai Wailuanui. Actually the one that is coming out through Opaekaa following this side of the stream and moves through here and then comes right through were the houselot's light is and enters the ocean at the base of Seashell Restaurant. That is the auwai Nui o Wailua. It actually starts right there below the Opaekaa Falls and it's the main ditch that fed everything in the Opaekaa basin. It is also the way the land drains naturally. Ms. Lovell- Obatake: And that auwai by Kaumualii Park is a conundrum to me of all the historical sites that are there and I put myself in your foot, the Department of Transportation, you know to be fair and yet you have a duty to protect the historical sites. And you know forgive us Kanaka sometimes we get aggressive sometime and get kind of puiwa with everything that is going on. And it's going on too fast in the segments and everybody not on the same page. And I can tell you that and I kanaka and I got to figure it out myself when I read it in the newspaper and thank God the Planning Department still loves me and they send me a notice for this meeting and I had to be here because I have made several comments and testimony even regarding the DOH national pollutant discharge elimination application and you know I have a busy life and not getting any younger but I was able to do some emailing of testimony. And I feel quite responsible for my responsibility for kupuna reinterments and my grandmother being 97 when she died she was born in 1892 knowing all that in my memory and in my heart I am compelled to come forward and ask that proper protection on all the cultural sites within the discussion that is still going on with Section 106 and hopefully we will have some strong protection even from this body right here I think. Chair: Question will it be appropriate that DOT consult the Burial Council under preconsultation if there is such a thing? Ms. Lovell - Obatake: I agree, I really, really do. They should. Chair: Because it's a really sensitive corridor it might be able to give the Burial Council the heads up to see if whether or not... Does the Burial Council have a preconsultation process? Meaning that DOT can come up to it and have an open discussion but noncommittal to both the August 5, 2010 IC.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 9 Burial Council and DOT but you exchange information at that point. If after this meeting you need to come to this meeting in official capacity then you are there. Everybody is up to date with it. They are aware of the project and some of the, because that particular highway is coming close to one of the mass burials that are within the Coco Palms property right. You need to identify those within there also now that you mention it. That's not unreasonable to consult with the Burial Council. Ms. Fukuda: Actually we met with them last year, March 5th as well and then we will be giving them an update next week at the Burial Council meeting. (Inaudible) has been attending the meetings with the Native Hawaiian Organization /Individuals. Chair: These reinterments are also protected to and I am sure there will be your regular cement barriers around those reinterments you know because machinery does go. But I think we can make those final set of recommendations after all our commissioners are up on there. But I think at this particular we can move this process forward. Ms. Lovell - Obatake: But if I can one more maybe it's on the part of engineering perspective you know resurfacing all the time and this whole process to me you know when LaFrance Arboleda was alive we often talked about this process is so unique because of it's identification of the area it's very historical. You know even documentation as far as registration with the Bureau of Conveyances you know being this commission may consider the fact of all what is being said here should be at the Bureau of Conveyances because of the historical significance. Then two urn they keep on resurfacing roads like where I live they kept resurfacing the road where the water ran into my yard and the reason may sound so simple but you know the run off going into historical sites. And I hope you are being consistent with the Department of Health on the MPDF because I support the canoe paddlers and the recreational people using the Wailua River maybe because it's by Nawiliwili Watershed cap. But you know we got to be healthy. We got to take some monitoring of the water too and that's my speel. Chair: I think it is a consideration if you can take it under consideration the highway drainage aspects you know. The first thing that comes to mind is that naturally it will drain towards Seashell towards where the natural auwai used to be however from what Cheryl just said there may be an interment in that particular area too. So we need to think that one through. Anyone wish to speak? Please come forward. Ms. Puanani Rodgers: Aloha Puanani Rodgers kou inoa. It is an interesting ke akua puts me in a place sometimes where I didn't think I would be. I had no intentions of being here but about an hour ago I was told that this was the agenda and because I have been a participant in the process for months already. Also because of my involvement in the Coco Palms too which is a very sad situation at this time but I wanted to get into the process because I know as a fact that the whole ahupuaa of Wailua is sacred and I was hoping then that we could come up with a process so that what is happening in Wailua right now will never happen again. I thought it was important to do the Section 106 and what was also so uncanny about this was that the time that this was Napping, the projects we got notice from the ACHP, the Advisory Council of Historic Preservation in Washington DC, the contact person Valerie Houser. She sent August 5, 2010 K.H,PR.C. Meeting Minutes Page I0 out a notice that she was looking for some input on this updated handbook that they were going to producing on Section 106 which is a consultation process on burial sites or cultural significant... Chair: Yes it's a register of individuals who have the experience to comment upon the Wailua Corridor. Yes. Have you applied? Ms. Rodgers: Did you get your notice as well? Chair: Yes have you applied? Ms. Rodgers: That was months ago. Yes. Chair: It's not an application but have you filled in? Ms. Rodgers: No. She just asked us to participate and to give input on this handbook that they are going to update. So if that is true then it is obvious that the Section 106 that they have been conducting in Wailua needs to be updated. It's an old process. Chair: Yes and I believe they restarted the whole process today. Ms. Rodgers: Only on that, this particular Kuamoo Road but there was also the bike path and the bridge. Chair: Yes. Ms. Rodgers: So just to make you aware that, that has happened. They said that they had Section 106 but they are saying that we didn't think that it was good enough and we want to make sure that this Kuamoo corridor one is done right. And um and I am sure you are aware but I think that the last step of the process is a memorandum of agreement which we hope all the participants and all the cultural practitioners that have been participating under these meetings would then come up with a good one so that what is happening cannot happen again. Chair: Cultural monitors are really important in this thing too. It's the first time we have a chance to step up. Ms. Rodgers: We don't have a SHPO. There is supposed to be one officer. Chair: Up no cultural monitor would really the one that oversees along with the monitor themselves. Ms. Rodgers: Part of Section 106 was that there was supposed to have a SHPO officer as well and my understanding Ray is that they don't have one at the moment. Mr. McCormick: They haven't really engaged. August 5, 2010 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 11 Ms. Rodgers: So it's just for your information. That's why it's been a real struggle with this whole thing. But we are doing it and I think hopefully we are going to come to a good conclusion and a good compromise where we can come up a strong MOA that will forever protect Wailua. Chair: What do you think of the idea of naming that particular part of the road the Royal Corridor? Ms. Rodgers: The Royal Corridor? I like royal but I don't know about corridor. Chair: Corridor yes get rid of that but the intent is that, that particular section of road right there is going right through the heart of the royal center. So it would be nice to have some kind of marker that you are know entering into the royal portion of the highway. Ms. Rodgers: Ok if they are coming up with some kind of name I was... Chair: The name would be through the consultation process. I am just bouncing that off. Other ideas will come through but I was just going through what makes Wailua special. It's the royal aspects of this zone that you are going through. Somehow for it to be more known that everybody is moving through a royal corridor right there. Ms. Rod . ers: It's so unfortunate that it's already been ruined by highways and railroad tracks but that is something that happened and we can't do anything about it. But if we can just make sure that things like that doesn't happen again. And I am glad that you brought that up about the name cause it brought to my memory this meeting we had with the Mayor about the bike path and he said something about they were going to name the bridge the Bryan Baptiste Bridge and I said why? I like your idea better. I think it should have some cultural significance. Chair: The road itself. Ms. Rodgers: Yes. Chair: Yes. Give it some thought. Ms. Rodgers: Ok I think that's all I had to say to you. Do you have any questions? Chair: Thank you Nani. Anyone else wishing to address this topic? Please come forward. Mr. Nathan Ratner: My name is Nathan Ratner for the record. I have been an observer at some of the consultation meetings and I was just curious as part of the 106 process that the bike path and the bridge widening if this body was consulted on that? Chair: Bike path no? I got to go check it out that one doesn't come up. We had all kinds of ideas about that. All the different alternatives I remember discussing within the bike path. Are you handling the bike path? No you are not handling the 106 for the bike path, the bike path is August 5, 2010 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 12 separate. They need to come in her and explain to this body all the different alternatives that are up for discussion. Mr. Ratner: I had one other question. I was just curious cause I have been sort of researching the 106 process and you know it's going through a number of changes. The Department of Defense is making their own consultation. I was curious about the State Department of Transportation was involved with the (inaudible) and that went through a separate consultation process. I was wondering what that process entails cause it's different from the highway widening wasn't it? Ms. Fukuda: It was a. different consultant that worked on the cane haul bridge. Mr. Ratner: Where you a part of that? Mr. McCormick: That was before my time but they did go through the process and the reason I know that is because the Federal Highways Administration wouldn't have signed off on it (inaudible). Mr. Ratner: (Inaudible). Ms. Rodgers: May I add another interesting fact? This process was discussed once in a Kauai/Niihau Island Burial Council and (inaudible). And interestingly enough besides asking us the Department of Interior and the Department of Defense are also coming up with some suggestions for some protocols for Section 106. Chair: Yes I know they have recently gone back and assigned several people to go over the consultation process through Native American Tribes and through Hawaiians. They have updated that particular process too. Also the State of Hawaii is under Federal review right now, SHPD particularly but in general there is a Federal trouble shooting team here for two years observing the Federal process for the next, well they have been here two months now. So they have twenty two more months to go. But there is a Federal team here. Ms. Rodgers: Who Federal Highways? Chair: No National Park Service, Ms. Rodgers: Ok I read the report. Ms. Lovell- Obatake: Cheryl Lovell for the records being that, this is just my suggestion regarding this commission and also because you will be having new members, new commissioners and will be making some important decisions and not hearing what is being said today but I am sure you have proper meeting minutes but I think, I just want to propose this and hopefully the attorney on my left will agree with it too a chronological order of events from the beginning to the end and even all the segmentations of different permits should be on a line to line item and by date. August 5, 2010 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 13 For me it's important because my opinion this is very historical and we all need to understand we may maki today or tomorrow or whenever and our keiki or kamalii and the people of the future will have to know what really happened or is happening right now of the changes in very historical area. So I am recommending that a line to line item by date from every different permit that were engaged in this commission be put on one or two or three papers rather then everybody trying to shuffle and find what is what and where is where and it would be easier for Mr. Jung or any other attorney after him to make some good legal recommendations to this whole process and malama what is there. So those are my recommendations. Chair: Thank you very much. You guys understood what she (inaudible, tape change). Would you, do you have any closing comments for us? Well we really appreciate you being there. And naturally any questions you may have please feel free to let us know. Mr. Helder: You know a chronology of the 106 process I would like to see as a recommendation from this board. What we just heard is a heart felt, that would help having this process be acceptable and I don't know if it's part of the 106 I have to refresh myself on it. But I would like to see that and I think if people would like to see it then it would be a good recommendation that we could make. A chronology would really be a part of what we would like to see. Chair: Absolutely. Ms. Fukuda: I missed the first part. Chair: The chronology of Section 106. Mr. Helder: You have it already it's just a matter of putting it out so that we could then pass it out you know if we were asked for it. Chair: Ok normally Shanlee and Ian are really good with the transcripts normally I would go over the essential recommendation but she will be able to pull them out of the transcripts because I can't make motions but I can go over what we have covered already which I think we have added to significantly through our last consultation. If there is nothing further. Ms. Sheehan: I would just like to thank you for all this. This is great we can all go back and read this too. Thank you it's great. It covers everything. Thank you. Chair: Thank you, thank you very much. Thank you very much for your patients. I think we were glad to have had this Wailua discussion. UNFINISHED BUSINESS There was no Unfinished Business August 5, 2010 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 14 NEW BUSINESS Re: Kalaheo Elementary School TMK: 2- 3- 002:005, Kalaheo, Kauai Use Permit U- 2010 -20 and Class IV Zoning Permit Z- IV- 2010 -22 to construct an administration building and covered pedestrian walkway. Chair: It's time to move on to Kalaheo School. Do we have the applicant here? Welcome. Mr. Nick Nichols: Good afternoon my name is Nick Nichols I am with the Department of Education. I am a civil use planner and this is Principal of Kalaheo Elementary Eric Burkman and then we also have our project coordinator for the project and also the architectural consultant. First we would like to pass out some information. Chair: Is it different from what we have in our packets? Mr. Nichols: This might be maybe a little bit more clearer just to facilitate discussion and I think you probably have the letter that sort of red flag. Chair: Yes. Oh wow I appreciate the color. Mr. Nichols: So I think I am going to start with the July 14th letter that was written to the Department of Planning, County of Kauai. Chair: You are talking about the SHPD, Chapter bE recommendations. Mr. Nichols: Yes the next to the last paragraph they say that they would like to recommend the relocation of the new building and so we would like to explain the DOE's perspective of why in our design process we chose where it is. And mostly I think we would, I will be very honest, we would like to (inaudible) your support and go back to meet with the State people and try to also present our case with them. We would like them to rethink their recommendation. Chair: Who made the original recommendations? Who are the initials in this? Mr. Nichols: I think the writer of the letter was Ross Stephenson. Chair: Alright he is the? Mr. Nichols: He is the historian that reviewed this project and so we agree with everything. We like the fact that he did recognize we did try to pick up the historic character. Our only concern is that he is asking us to put it back on the original site where I think in 2005 the original admin and classroom burned. So the DOE since then has provided temporary buildings there that the school is utilizing and is currently where Mr. Burkman's office and classrooms and for quite a while that may stay and from the DOE's perspective that the admin should be at the front of the campus. Some of the rational for that is you know we want the admin to be the gateway, the protector of the campus. August 5, 2010 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 15 We don't want intruders just walking onto the campus going to where they want. They should always and most of you are aware we even have signs that all visitors report to the office. They check in there and we find out what their business is, what their intent is. If it's an honorable intent then they go to the respective part of the campus. And also in this case we have some parking with this new structure and we would also eliminate, there is a lot of traffic that comes to that interior part of campus and it goes by the playground, it goes by the cafeteria, it goes by the admin an the classrooms and often that's a dangerous situation. So from the safety "aspect all the more so we would like to have the admin at the front of the campus. I think it would control the vehicular access. Right now when they come to the office they do penetrate far into the campus before they come to that certain part of the campus. So from those two aspects and we feel that probably that this Ross Stephenson we don't think he understands where we are coming from and we do understand the openness. Chair: Have you studied his position on the historic landscape that was originally intended for this campus? What does he mean by that? Right because he is basing his decision on I guess when they built Kalaheo School originally they had some sort of design in mind. Where is that coming from? Mr. Nichols: We are not sure because from our office we looked and tried to see if there was an existing master plan and we were not really sure if there was... Chair: A philosophical statement as to its original layout. Mr. Helder: Well it's on the register of historic places. There must have been an application for that that spelled it out. Mr. Nichols: There was five building of which I think only tow remain on campus. Chair: Do you have a copy of the historic register application? Mr. Harold Inouye: We recently got a copy it basically was the application for the National Historic Registry. We didn't see the actual... Chair: Was there discussion within that original application? Mr. Inouye: It did mention about the open space part of the landscape. But I think what Mr. Stephenson was training to explain was it was viewed from off campus looking into the campus you could see the historic administration building. That building had since then burned down and all historic markings around that area had been destroyed. Chair: Would you think it would alter your standing as a National Historic Places? Would it alter your position? Would you still be eligible to be on this list? Or would the movement of the admin center take you off the list? August 5, 2010 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 16 Mr. Inouye: I think the concept of what we are trying to maintain on the site is to keep the open area as much as possible. I think the original intent was to remain open which means the school would never be developed any more then it is without taking away any open. Mr. Helder: Do we know who put this application forward? Are you aware of who originally? Mr. Inouye: No because we asked for the original signed application but all they gave us was the application for the National Historic Registry. Mr. Helder: With no identifying... Mr. Inouye: They noted the five important or historic buildings. Two of which since have, admin burned down. The library has been replaced and then the three remaining. We tried to reflect in our design to keep in the character. We tried to maintain as much open space as possible. Mr. Burkmain is very adamant that we do not take any open space that is not required. That is why we didn't develop the parking and driveways. We tried to use minimize the impact to any of the open space. So in essence what we tried to create was an open courtyard in the campus and because of the inspecs the requirements for administration has increased tremendously. It's possibly three or four times the size they have now and one important factor was the comprehensive student component: What we tried to do was create an internal breezeway with our building so when people enter the building they can see through the building and out into the open space. We felt we tried to keep the natural character of the site. Chair: Commissioner Helder. Mr. Helder: Yes there is two. First the historic character of this has been altered because of the addition of these buildings. We know that. We know that school grow and change and looking at this proposal it makes sense however this has been put on an historic register. And usually placing something on the historic register is not so much that they are identifying buildings that they want preserved they are using that as a tool to do something. An example of that something is maybe they just like driving by and seeing their kids play. Seeing he kids be part of the community and the school children being in it. So I would be very curious as to why this was put on the registry. Whoever in the community placed this application what they were trying to accomplish. And if I knew that then I would be very comfortable making a recommendation about oh then this changes a worthwhile change and if it didn't compromise what they were after also. So it's kind of an interesting problem in a way that you don't have that because the community really owns this school. I mean the hear and soul and it would be kind of interesting if you could put out some kind of notice asking about this and find out some information. Don't you think it's reasonable? Chair: I think reviewing the application to begin with I think would be important to know the language because whether or not language is specific to that aspect right there. August S, 2010 K.H.P.R.C, Meeting Minutes Page 17 Mr. Helder: Because if the openness, the horse shoe aspect of this was one of the primary things that they were trying to preserve so that they could see into the school this building in this position really cuts that off. And we in historic preservation by agreeing to this or recommending this would be responsible for eliminating something that might be very important. So I would like to know before I go forward. Chair: And then we are also weighing out the traffic congestion that would be putting through this corridor that is supposed to be enjoyed but now we have all this traffic going through. The idea of the admin over there eliminates the traffic and that's a compelling thing that naturally the building itself do you have plans with the original footprint of the administration building. Mr. Inouye: There is a, I believe the last page is a snap shot of and I think that was taken prior to the burning of the administration building. Chair: In your discussion with SHPD you would be able to commemorate the administrative building with a bronze plaque. On this spot once stood this building and then you know you can have the outline of the building in the bronze plaque. They do beautiful work know and it's not very expensive at all. These are just ideas in order to mitigate these particular impacts. What you are saying is that we will recognize this particular area through the bronze plaque through interpretive right there as the original admin right there. Also if the historic site designation is still holding good then I think something to commemorate that too that would be of course that the admin of some sort right there. That would probably help SHPD in at least that the memory and the idea of the administrative is park in perpetuity right there. It adds to the sense of history that you are building on this campus. Mr. Nichols: I think the building for example with that breezeway right now we have a display area right at the entrance I mean I think there is a lot of opportunity. It has deep covered lanais we could easily put some kind of recognition of what it is. You know the maps the plaques and it would be protected. We do have some actual gates that are closing off the breezeway during non school hours if need be we could put it directly inside of that so it can't easily be vandalized or whatever but yet during the operation of school it would be apparent as you enter the office which there will be a lot of traffic. What I would like to just emphasize though and it seems like you do understand is the overall safety and security aspect that the DOE now has to operate. I think you are probably aware of for example they have periodic lock downs now. Which you know they lock the doors, the cover the windows and stuff, the practice of you know trying to incase someone of ill intent was on campus and you know twenty years ago that didn't happen. When you and I went to school we got it covered for air raids and we did have some periodic fire drill but there was not talk of you know a lock down to keep a gunman from getting to the students. And these are the daily factors that now principal and staff have to deal with. So I do want to just emphasize from our level all of our new schools the admin is at the front of the school for that and other reasons. Also we know have perimeter fences, typically just chain links around our campuses and we no longer have the cattle gate because no longer are we trying August 5, 2010 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 18 to just keep out the unwanted person that wants to do a wheelie in our front yard or on the playgrounds but we are trying to actually deter people unless the school chooses to open up the campus. So we now have sliding gates that when he locks it down it is a chore to get in. I mean you can still get over the fence but we feel that it is necessary to make sure on Monday morning he has a safe and secure uncluttered campus you know so that he can do his job, he and his staff. So I like these ideas of mitigation when we go to the State level. Chair: Well we have other comments from commissioners. Ms. Aiu: I have a question for you Mr. Principal. Have you spoken to your PTSA? Have you showed the teachers this plan? Have you shown the PTSA this plan? Have they made comments? Do they like it? Do they want something different? Mr. Burkman: In the process from the beginning we had parents and community members on a committee representing our school and we went to all the planning with the State. So there was all these people representing and then we shared this with what we call the school community council now and the PTSA and they have been informed every step of the way on the process, the layout and this and that. They gave input on the design of the building itself. You know which office should where. Where you would want the PCNC, the PCNC is the parent community link. We asked PCNC where you think the best place for your office so you could interact with the community. There has been a lot of input and very collaborative and so yes everyone seems to be on board and everyone is excited about the new building. Ms. Aiu: So they like where that new building is going to go. I thought at Kapaa Elementary for many, many years and our community wanted to have that open courtyard and it was really important something that you mention when you pass by you could see what the kids were doing. Of course the DOE doesn't always listen us and we ended up, you know that giraffe that we have, we call it the giraffe that huge building that came up but we were able as a community to save the courtyard and I thinking maybe that is what people are looking at this concept. It's dangerous. I hear you cause sometimes we come to school in the morning and our room were vandalized and it's unfortunate that we give into these people. We no longer you know you have to fence everything. And so when I come to school in the morning the administration is the first building I go to but it's on the side. So we have a U shape like this and here is the administration building but there is nothing here so there is this open campus that you have and the courtyard where the kids play. Mr. Nichols: When we were going through the design process you will notice when you look at it to the right there is an open space but one of the things is you know not only did the admin burn but classrooms so early in our design that was one potential site for the future classrooms that we need to replace. But right now the school would like to keep that open. I think they have some playground equipment in that area is used. But we did look early on and I understand we had tried to put everything there but it just physically doesn't fit. But I understand what you area saying that is why we did push the building as far towards the front street so that we are leaving as much open court area but now it is an enclosed court. We agree with you almost all of our newer school really like the court kind of thing because that is great for their assemblies and all kind of passive (inaudible) and especially if it can be shaded with the larger trees and you know August 5, 2010 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 19 tables and benches that are on the perimeter and things like. Your point is well taken. We certainly will try to honor that. Mr. Burkman: May I add also that Nick mentioned the day to day concerns and those are concerns and we prepare for those but to be honest with you a gunman or something like that is not weighing on me everyday but we prepare for the worst. What is the day to day concern is the facility space that we have to service our children. So for example right now without the administration building our counselor works out of a closet. Our school psychologist works out of a closet in the library and so we have children going to storage closets to meet with their counselors and to get help and that is not the way you want children to go. So the comprehensive student support aspect where children need extra help and they need the special services we can give them a real appropriate setting to be success with them. And that is what I am really excited about and we are hoping this building will provide. Chair: You need to grow as your community grows. Mr. Burkman: One more thing that I would like to add too is thank you for bringing that is when this administration building burned down the administration wing burned down as well as six classrooms. And so the administration building serviced Kalaheo School when it opened up and I don't know how many students were there probably ninety or a hundred. But at this point we were at five hundred students and Kalaheo is a growing community and twenty years from now there could be seven hundred students in our school and to continue to just pack students in to inappropriate facilities is something we would like to avoid. And so this new administration building is really crucial in providing services to our students. Ms. Summers: Am I the only that doesn't know where the old administration building that burned down was? Mr. Burkman: It's the U shaped building in the center of campus. Ms. Summers: Anyways when I was reading it wasn't clear to me. The other question I have I don't think anyone questions the need for a new administration building and the beauty of what has been designed. The only question that I hear coming up is the placement of it and I am noticing on the Google and also on this map I was wondering if this could be put over here and there by be at the front of the school? I don't know if the space is right. It's just an idea that I had for having your administration building, your parking and your open area too. Ms. Nichols: Yes that is currently one potential site for the future classrooms when we are able to afford it and bring it on. So eventually that will eventually disappear. So that is why right now we placed the admin where it is. We are also, though, we charged the architect to try to find another space on campus and probably would be two story but it would be at the back of the campus where we could relocate those classrooms to the back and still leave that open area up front. That would be I think (inaudible). Mr. Burkman: Yes (inaudible) concerns we had as a school and community in this whole process is maintaining as much open space as possible for the kids to play. The kids need room to run. August S, 2010 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 20 They need the sunshine. You know they need the fresh air and they need room to play. And this map, this site is a little bit; it needs a little bit of explanation because if you look at the east border behind where it says classroom building and the east border. That is not our property that is behind Andrade's pasture. So that is as far back as we can go. And then if you make a straight edge from the corner of that classroom building to where it says portable classroom, straight edge this way on the north east if you draw a straight edge from corner to corner right at the edge is a gulch. It drops off. So while it may be our property on the thing it's actually a gulch. There is a gulch and there really is no space there either. And then on the southeast corner in the letter it recommends moving the building temporary to the southeast corner. That southeast corner is a leach field. It's not an open area so that person that wrote the letter doesn't know that it's a leach field. It looks like open space but it's actually a leach field. It looks like open space but you can't even park cars on it. So we really are. The school started next to the Andrade property and as it grew it grew out away from the administration building until it reached Maka Road. And so we are kind of confined to this space. And so knowing that the playground space is critical for us and while this, might be a potential site for replacing the classrooms, we are going to keep it playground space. So the playground space is really important for us so that is priority. Ms. Sheehan: I just had a couple comments. I think you really thought this out well. I tend to concur with David that the basis is why you became historic. And that information is really important because I can see that you don't have too many choices but in the paper work that I have we really don't see what the architecture is on the other buildings and although you say you want it to look like those buildings I don't really know what that architecture is. For me it's the scale of the architecture and I am not sure if what burned down was three hundred feet and what you building is three thousand feet. I don't know that scale but I think that is important historically. If you need to keep this historic designation and it's important to you as a school it may not be important. It may not be saving taxes or doing anything for you. You inherited it, here you are you are historic. What it allows or disallows you to do, you may want to be unhistoric. But for me it's the scale and just from this picture I really can't tell other than a roofline that you may be copying. You know just whether it's board and batten. What it is? I don't know what it is. But I go back to the compromise between I don't know if you thought about the scale but if those administration building up front it looks very big to me. I can't tell but could you separate the two sides and open it up and let the breezeway become a view plane so that you look through the corridor but it still something that is guarded by both sides of the building on both sides. I also don't know whether you building this building for the next twenty years because it's supposed to something you know build it now and then you can grow into it. If it's something that needs to be at a certain scale because you are not going to do this again then the size is kind of set. But if it's a building that you to take you for the next ten years and then you are going to have to add on to it or something. I am just throwing out those ideas. I feel like this historic nature that it's been given. That it's been given for a reason and you can't mitigate that reason until you have seen your own paper work. And I can't tell you that you are in scale because I August S, 2010 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 21 haven't seen anything else. And that was my concern was that if you grow, you grow in the same scale and the same style that this historic site has been given and that's why it's historic. So you may not be able to make the building smaller or separate them. I'm just giving you ideas for that corridor. You may not have too much choice but I certainly understand that you need to build for future. I just don't know how far out this building is being planned for the next twenty years or the next fifty or the next ten? Depending on your budget. Mr. Burkman: Yes and to be honest the future is now at Kalaheo School. We are popping at the seams you know. We are ready for this building, the size of this building and it does have some room to grow into it. That is true but it is designed to grow into but we are going to fill it up at the same time. Chair: Your timing? Construction is you are intended to start when? Mr. Nichols: Maybe October or November. We already opened bids. The prices came in very well bellow the budget so (inaudible). The architect is in the process of coming for permits. Chair: And then all the blue prints have been done for the building except for the location. Mr. Helder: You may actually may find, one of the things that we are looking at is we are looking at an historic register. The principal building is gone from whatever this application was the people who may have applied for this register, they may have lost interest when the building, when that particular building was gone. If you are working with the community on this project and nobody has ever said anything it may be that there isn't an interest any longer in this and we are trying to protect something that we really don't know about it. You know that's the job of this particular commission is to try to save stuff like this and this particular instance we don't know. My recommendation would be to find out as much as you can about who put this on. Why they put it on. Are they against doing this particular thing? If they are not then we could easily recommend to State that the portion that was protected and the thing that it was about having this... I like the architecture that you have done. It looks like it would fit right in here. I don't have any problem with the site or any of the rest of it. It's just that we have this register that we need to be aware of and concerned with. So could I recommend that we have them try to find this out and come back and let us know what you think and if you found somebody that was associated with it? Chair: Couple of things we could consider. It wouldn't be the first time that we didn't concur with SHPD right. So we don't have an issue with that. In this particular case I think one of the options is that KHPRC, I am not making a motion I am just saying that as an example the KHPRC recommends that the State Historic Preservation review this application carefully with you. So in other words instead of not concurring at this particular point would be to make the recommendations that they review this specific aspects of it whether or not the original application contained that. So we are asking for a second review. August 5, 2010 IC.I-I.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 22 Mr. Helder: By State sure. Chair: And then at that point they can enter into the negotiating table if you can with them and state your case to them again preferably on the property itself not in Honolulu but sometimes it doesn't happen. I am just throwing this out commissioners, Clearly I don't think we have the votes at this particular time to not concur clearly, with a clear conscience us with out us reviewing the actual application. It's probably a very short thing. I don't know if you give us five /ten minutes to read it over and then we would be able to make final comments. But clearly we are not comfortable at this particular point to do this. But the recommendation for a second reading from SHPD could be done. That would allow you the chance to argue it out but at the same time take a look at that application. Mr. Helder: And interview in the neighborhood see if you can find out the information about it. That would be a good presentation to State if their interest is no longer there, the building is gone. I think that, that will serve you well. And we would certainly be happy to see it again. Chair: The idea of an enclosed courtyard I prefer first anyways for security and for visual and for privacy and for many, many things. I think we are comfortable requesting a second reading on your behalf. Mr. Nichols: We really appreciate that. That is what I felt the most realistic outcome of this. Cause that's what we want, the second opportunity to go back and talk with the State and we were hoping if not get some kind of support. Chair: If not then you need to come before us again with the application. And then give us a chance to review the application and then I think we are all on board exactly what's going on now and so it will be a quick process the next time you come through. Ms. Aiu: So nothing was said, you can't make a motion, but nothing was said in your comment about when you go back for the review what we are really looking at is why was it on the National Register. That's what we really want to know. Ms. Sheehan: I just had a comment. If you find out in the course of things that you need to, or you want to keep with that historic designation and you want to keep with those features for me one of those things would be to maybe keep things in scale. I mean if the buildings are going to be there maybe the roof comes down a little bit, or maybe it has a hip or something so that it is not so massively out of proportion. I think that is where I am coming from that I am not to sure what, if you find out information that required you to do certain things you know from an architectural stand point for me is that everything is in scale and maybe the roof would be one thing that you could put lower and keep it in scale with the other buildings. I don't know if it's a two story building. Mr. Nichols: It's only one story. Mr. Helder: That's a very good point. Is the roof approximately the same as the old building? August 5, 2010 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 23 Mr. Nichols: No in terms of square footage it's much... Mr. Helder: No I am talking about the visual from the road. Is it, cause what I am looking at here if this is to scale it's about the same width as you administration/classroom that structure which also seems to be about the same dimensions as the old building. So visually with exception of the height looks like from your plan... Mr. Inouye: It's pretty close. Mr. Helder: Yes so it's just the roofline. Mr. Inouye: What I wanted to add is the cafeteria/dining building which is one of the historic buildings on the site, mass wise is pretty close to our admin building and we tried to follow the pitch of the roof, the same pitch. So if you look at the actual building the roof is almost higher then ours. Mr. Helder: Oh is that right? Ms. Sheehan: We don't have pictures of so it's really hard to... Mr. Inouye: That was one of the characteristics of the site. Mr. Burkman: Yes if you would go to the campus you would see that all of the buildings along the sides they all have very similar, very high pitch roof. The library also and the building in the back so the roof we asked to snatch with the rest of the building. Mr. Helder: I like the design. I think the design will go really well. I would like to make a motion that we write a letter asking, requesting State to revisit this issue and either come to... Chair: Our particular point is the review the historic places. Mr. Helder: And to possibly make it visit to see the campus. Chair: Not us. Mr. Helder: Not us but... Chair: SHPD yes. Mr. Helder: And then give a second look at this recommendation. Ms. Sheehan: Second. Ms. Summers: I would also like, maybe on my own, but I would like to commend you on the architecture of this. August 5, 2010 K.H. P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 24 Chair: No, no you not we are all there. Ms. Summers: I think it was beautifully done and appreciate the concern for making it match the rest of the buildings hers. Chair: So essentially at this particular point the recommendations are going to read that KHPRC commends both DOE and the architect for the design. That is in keeping with the scale of things so you did a good job at that. And then the second part of the motion is that SHPD take another look at this based on the National Historic application that preamble right there. Are you guys ok with that? Normally our motions are about twelve parts. Mr. Nichols: We are very happy with you have given. Chair: Ok let's close this off. Is there anyone is the audience who wishes to address this matter? (None.) Ok Commissioners ready to vote? All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote.) Opposed? Hearing none. Thank you very much. Re: Lihue Public Library TMK: 3- 6- 015:029, Lihue, Kauai Use Permit U- 2010 -21 and Class IV Zoning Permit Z -IV- 2010 -23 for the construction of an enclosure along the western end of the library for three air conditioning units. Chair: Lihue Public Library. Is anybody here on behalf of the Lihue Public Library? Staff: I received an email from the consultant they are not going to be here. Mr. Helder: Do we need a presentation on that one? I thought it was reasonably clear and I would have no problem without a presentation. Chair: Me neither. I am not worried. Mr. Helder: If everybody is comfortable we could get that one off the agenda. Chair: Yes let's do it. Molly? Mr. Helder: I would like to move... Chair: Before you do that I would like to bring Molly up to it. At this particular point this commission does not see any real red flags in the Lihue Library. Do you have any? Ms. Summers: Looking at the plan I though that the curved wall didn't match the rest of the architecture. I was just wondering why they had half a curved wall, if engineering wise they had to have the curved wall. August 5, 2010 K.H.P.R.C, Meeting Minutes Page 25 Chair: Can we look at it specifically. Mr. Helder: I think it matches this curve here. Cause this roadway curve if they had it straight it would pinch this right here, that distance here and that why they did it. And there are curves in the (inaudible). Cause the bottom of the wall where the wall comes down it curves out like that and then the pitch comes like this. So it's part of that whole scenario. Chair: What's the material of the wall? Mr. Helder: Stone it matches the, I was over there this afternoon, and it snatches what they have. Chair: Ian what we were considering right now is non of us have essentially, at this point now, no real concerns of Lihue Public Library. Staff: Based on the information provided. Chair: Based on the information that we have gotten we are comfortable at this point to continue and make the recommendations. Staff: I would ask you to consider that. We referred it here unless you really see a need for the applicant you can refer until you get them. Chair: I think Molly's concern about the wall has been alleviated. I think at this particular point... Mr. Helder: I think we can make a motion... Chair: Yes so before we make a motion there are no set of recommendation to follow. Mr. Helder: No there is nothing just accept it the way it is. That's the motion. Chair: Alright make it. Mr. Helder: I move that we accept this project as presented. Ms. Sheehan: Second. Chair: Is there anyone in the room who wishes to address? (None.) Ok any further discussions gang? Are we ok? All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote.) Any opposed? Hearing none thank you. Re: Hendrikus Group, Inc. TMKs: 5- 2- 12:019 & 5 -2- 21:041, Kahili Ahupuaa, Hanalei, Kauai Use Permit U- 2011 -1, Class IV Zoning Permit Z -IV- 2011 -1 and Special Management Area Use Permit SMA (U)- 2011 -1 to permit construction of a new August 5, 2010 K.I1.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 26 single family residence, accessory agricultural storage and office structures, development of irrigation well, accessory photovoltaic installation, demolition of structure and archaeological restoration of historical auwai, rock walls, and terraces. Chair: You could've been here a lot longer. Believe me. Mr. Ben Welborn: That's fine. Thank you Commissioners good afternoon. My name is Ben Welborn with Landmark Consulting Services and I am here on behalf of the applicant Hendrikus Group, Inc. who is proposing a project in the Kilauea River Valley. That's Kahili Ahupuaa, Koolau District, So I will give you a background. There is a lot to the project. Here first to get your bearings Kilauea Bay, Kuhio Highway and this is more or less where Kahili Makai Street is and then right here out of the picture is the bulk of Kilauea town and the waterfall is kind of right here. The project site, well the applicant owns two parcels. They own a small kuleana parcel which is about three quarters of an acre and it's outlined there and you will see it in a lot of the exhibits. And then they also own a seventeen acre CPR parcel which is part of the larger lot. It was part of the Kahili Makai Subdivision. And so collectively they own about eighteen and a half acres. The project area that we have defined is about 9.8 acres and that's this gray area. There is some good exhibits in the application that you can look at but basically what this is according to the archeologist there might as well just read, well a little more background on the project. The archeologist on the project was Rechtman Consulting Services, Bob Rechtman and Matthew Clark and they did an archaeological inventory on the kuleana parcel and most of the photographs that you see there, the existing rock walls are on the kuleana. The adjacent bulk of the project area is strictly overgrown. So rather than doing an inventory survey they did an inventory plan which is exactly for a circumstance like this where the resources cannot be surveyed because they are kind of the cart before the horse. So the inventory plan gets us to a plan where the resourced can be surveyed. So let me just read what Rechtman said about the area based upon archival documents and subsurface testing the fields and he is referring to the (inaudible) fields appear to reflect the use of property and really it's the properties for rice cultivation during the late nineteen to early twentieth centuries. These fields were built upon prior kula and loi agricultural systems documented in the Mahele records within the current study parcel. He is referring to the Kuleana. So what Bob Rechtman thinks is that there may have been some loi here but you know they were converted into rice fields at one point in time. Chair: Were you able to find the auwai? Mr. Welborn: There is one auwai which runs along the top of what we call the project area and that is why we brought this boundary up to incorporate that auwai. It goes off the property so it's a bit beyond the scope of the project to say that we are going to restore that. But we you know, there is an auwai. They kind of have a detern7ination point and then it picks up lower down. You know it's pretty excited what may come to life there after we start clearing vegetation. August 5, 2010 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 27 So the applicants, what they want to do on the project there is an existing improved driveway, cement driveway. And there was actually a home on this site back in the eighties which was destroyed by Iniki. After that landowner the subsequent landowner built a few bamboo kind of like Bali style structures kind of without permits and nay clients purchased the property last year and inherited those structures which have never been permitted. And so what they are putting forth now is to relocate some of those structures that were built without permits. You can actually see some of them straddle property lines and to obtain building /zoning permits for all of those unpermitted structures and to build a residence, to build a barn. They have a landscaping business and to run that landscaping business out of their home office. So they are going to take two of the existing structures, kind of create one permitted structure out of that. So that's kind of the scope of structures they are proposing. Throughout this whole area are a number of terraces and the character of those are pretty evident in these photographs. The are these big rock terraces. You can see some of the rock work is really very nice and here where you can see where the rock ends and you can see that thick bush that's the area were we have to do the archaeological, well clearing before we can do the actual inventory survey. And these terraces extend in that area and maybe two hundred/three hundred yards back into the bush until they get to this little stream there is kind of steep embankment that is earmarked by this zone 2. So the terraces extend all the way out until here and really take up a pretty large area. We define zone 1 of the archeological zone restoration area which is, here it is zone I is actually four point four acres. And that is really what the bulk of these people are proposing to restore. So it's a fairly large and very beautiful series of terraces. Chair: Where is the barn going in relationship to this? Mr. Welborn: Well we have defined the building envelope because we don't know what we are going to find behind the thick bush. So its going to end up being on one of the grass, you know one of the clear areas between the walls. So that is why a building envelope was created rather than pretending to know... Mr. Helder: But the wall are going to remain intact ?? Mr. Welborn: Yes that's the whole intent and you can see in so many places you know large trees. Like there is a lot of java plum. There is some very large mango trees. We did a biological survey and they are all introduced. Chair: Yes well the mango in an important part of kuleana. That's how you can actually tell through the aerial photographs any where you see a mango 99.9 percent there is a kuleana there. So it's one of the indicators especially a certain age of the mangos. Mr. Welborn: Yes so these guys are proposing to keep some of the mangos and to remove some of them. There is an extensive amount of them and we are trying to justify removing tree roots like that and so in some cases we kind of built this off a project that we did in Limahuli twelve years ago where there was a loi restoration project and we used different protocols to remove trees from degrading rock walls and in some cases they will be photographed, disassembled, August 5, 2010 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 28 large machinery will be used to remove the stumps and they will be rebuilt. In other cases they will be cut off and poisoned or this guy wants to use copper spikes to kill the root systems. Chair: There is another way. Mr. Welborn: The applicant is extremely accomplished in alternative land use. Him BMPs are very, very green and progressive and that's kind of what he has built his company around. So he wants to use things that are very sensitive to the land and I think if you take a moment to look at his BMPs they are pretty impressive. If everybody says BMPs he's actually put forth what they are. Chair: Another way we found for removing trees that works really good for without any disturbance to the stones is you place a few embers of coal 'inside the center of it right there and it slowly over a two week period will burn itself into the ground and as it does that everything kind of closes up around it. Mr. Welborn: Wow that's a great way. Chair: You can talk us and I can show you examples of how and when we use em in massive walls. There is no way we are taking apart the walls and I can see as far as putting this back together it is not a big deal. It's only two courses high or three, two really. Mr, Welborn: I don't think unfortunately I don't think we are talking about many loi fields. Chair: Yes but as you go along maybe something to keep in mind that you don't have to take it apart cause when you do that's archaeologically too. There is a chance you are going deep enough to see the stratigraphy. There is going to be charcoal under that. You are going to want to get dates and things like that. So the idea of actually taking the wall apart, try not to if you could do it. Mr. Welborn: I think that is kind of why that's low on the protocol list. Chair: Yes you are going to have to stabilize the area anyways and so yes keep that one in mind you know the coals. It will take two weeks. Howevers... Kauai two weeks is nothing. Mr. Welborn: This project is, they don't know, it's going to depend on their finances so they are looking at a fairly long term time horizon to do the project. And so two weeks is really nothing. Chair: Has SHPD reviewed this? Mr. Welborn: Yes before we put together the permit application we had Nancy McMahon, she came out and did a site visit and got quite excited about what we were proposing. And Historic Preservation has reviewed and approved and the inventory survey which encompasses the entire kuleana parcel and extended out beyond those boundaries as far as the clearing made that possible. Then the remaining, the inventory plan covers the remaining 17.5 acre parcel because the have to look at the deeded parcel to meet the requirements. But the inventory plan states that August 5, 2010 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 29 the project area will be the focus of the protocols for removing vegetation and restoring rock walls and what not. And as the inventory plan is done the resources will be surveyed and those surveys will be reviewed. Chair: Clearly from, you are moving through in this area with an extra sensitive way that we are used to so 1 commend you on that one already. Mr. Welborn: We also had the Planning, we had people from the Planning Department come out prior to you know proposing anything and said well here is all the illegal structures, here is where we are and here is where we would like to get to and that was about eight months ago. Ms. Sheehan: Do you know if you can move the structures? Mr. Welborn: Yes they are not big. Ms. Sheehan: No but do you have to do anything because they are not permitted? Mr. Welborn: You know that's, we are get them zoned first and then we will let the building inspector figure out whether or not they are permissible. But as soon as we get the zoning permits in place we have got quite a, we are in the SMA. We are also in a Special Treatment Resource subzone so we have to get zoning permits in place and then presumably according to the designer of those bamboo structures they are to code. Ms. Sheehan: They are? So you have to resubmit a building permit because you will now have to put a leach field or something. Mr. Welborn: Yes we are going to have to get building permits, after the fact building permits, for each structure. Ms. Sheehan: But right now those structures don't have a sump or a cesspool? Mr. Welborn: There is no bathroom there. They are just kind of... Chair: Gazebos, big gazebos. Mr. Welborn: Yes exactly. So we are, we have got wastewater plans for two separate septic systems. So those will go in some of the larger terraces kind of in the body of the terrace. Rechtman did some subsurface testing on his inventory survey and he didn't do any dating because he didn't find anything. Chair: How deep did he go? Mr. Welborn: There is some cross sections it's in appendix two and that's usually the technical stuff that l glance over in these reports. Chair: 1 will take a look at it no worries. August 5, 2010 K.H.PA.C. Meeting Minutes Page 30 Mr. Welborn: Yes if you any questions Bob is quite excited about carrying this project forward and you know we are quite excited about... Chair: It's a work in progress. Mr. Welborn: Yes very much. We are happy to involve you folks and get your recommendations and we are hoping you know the applicants didn't want to promise to much and deliver to little. They would kind of rather do the reverse but they are hoping to engage some educational components and you know some opportunities in these restorations for education as well. It's a neat project. Mr. Helder: So if he is going to run his business out of there is it going to be partially public? I mean will people go there to deal with him in the office? Mr. Welborn: I mean yes I guess from a home office there is, you know the CZO defines what you can and cannot do at a home office. It restricts like the selling of things but you can run a business from home and I think that's all they are going to do. It's just kind of office work. I mean their business is really going to be out there where their client's properties are but there might be some nursery stuff and you know it's probably where they are going to sit away and tap away what they do. It's just a couple. Ms. Sheehan: Can they through the vegetation get to the Kilauea Stream? Mr. Welborn: Oh yes its right above the stream. Ms. Sheehan: So this clearing is like you can't see the stream in the pictures but is the stream right there? Mr. Welborn: Right there. There is a view impact analysis in the application that you have. Ms. Sheehan; It's just really hard to see if it's like on the water. Mr. Welborn: It's about, the elevation is probably about, we have a topo survey, maybe a hundred feet above the river where the proposed residence will go. The existing structures are visible from Kilauea Stream and I think more than anything the project it will impact views in that large area of vegetation will be cleared. Chair: Yes so the view plane is actually being enhanced. Mr. Welborn: Well they are being changed you know that would be a matter of perspective but you are not going to see more development per say you are just going to see an area where there are fewer trees. Ms. Sheehan: So he is below Pflueger? August 5> 2010 K.14Y.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 31 Mr. Welborn: He is right below Plfueger. In fact the easement to access it cuts across a corner of that property and I am sorry the actual elevation of where the structures are going to go is about sixty feet above the river not a hundred. Chair: And what is it that you require from this at this point? Mr. Welborn: Planning Department wanted you folks to be aware of the project. I don't really, the SMA permit application and the Class IV Zoning permit application has gone in. We are going before Planning Commission on August 24th and so it's just kind of to make you folks aware of the project to welcome your input, recommendations to the applicant and to the archeologist. Historic Preservation has already approved the inventory survey but they inventory plan was just for the remainder of the project has been submitted and we are awaiting comments so that's kind of an ongoing process. Chair: Commissioners any questions? Ms. Aiu: I do have some questions thank you. As I went through it, it reminded me of Limahuli like you said and it wasn't like I was looking at one wall but I was looking at a system and that was important to me that this places was an important place some where back in time. It seems it must have been occupied and used and it's just not one thing so when I look at it and I see that it is going to be developed I do have, I have concerns about I and so I am going to ask you some questions. You talked 'about having to remove some of the walls and I can see that. We have a heiau on our property also. Who do you expect to restore the rock wall feature? I think that these features are so important. Mr. Welborn: Yes so the permit application basically says that if the rock walls will be restored according to feedback from Historic Preservation, possibly feedback from you folks and so the verdicts a little bit still out on that respect. So it's kind of like we put the information out. We have taken some information from the Limahuli example and in Limahuli rock walls have been restored using traditional techniques and also using heavy equipment and so it's kind of a blend. I think the applicant kind of welcomes input. I think we are talking about mostly post contact walls here and I think the archaeologist would make that determination so I think that's up for discussion. Ms. Aiu: Ok so that's not a known factor. So it could be the people that he hires his landscaping people that kind of stuff. Chair: But we could make a recommendation see where it ends up being on one side if you looking for a licensed. dry mason contractor right cause you need to dry mason licensed. Now you are looking at five Tongan outfits and several others right if you are going into the dry masons. We do have some good stone wall builders that would be able to give you recommendations if you want to think about it. Especially the North Shore ones, afterwards I can give you some of some of the. August 5, 2010 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 32 Mr, Welborn: Knowing the applicant he is going to want to do the work but he would be comfortable with getting some protocol. Some counseling so that it's done in the right way. So I think those kinds of recommendations will be very welcomed. Ms. Aiu: Thank you and by the way this is a great book. Thank you. He is a European trained landscaper and my years in Europe everything is very formal and the gardens did not incorporate what was there. They brought in everything and I hope that, that's not going to be how. Mr. Welborn: In fact let's look at the last appendix you can turn, excuse me, yes the last appendix which are the BMPs and pictures are always more descriptive more than words and you can see on some of the photo examples of the BMPs especially the one there in the middle row on the right the bio swale which uses and this would probably be very similar to what he does here. Some of the downed trees and rocks to create, to manage storm water and it's very informal and very jungly and also the use of logs and roots to create organic habitat. I have seen some of his work and 'it's very informal. It's not that English garden type of work. It's pretty impressive. Ms. Aiu: Another question was I saw here Native Hawaiian issues and that it didn't impact. How was this known? Where there community meetings? Mr. Welborn: No the archeologist consulted, he reached out to a few kupuna in the Kilauea area and unfortunately, and he also talked to the former land owner who is Mike Dyer and unfortunately no one really has much historic knowledge of the property other than the fact that it was used for rice cultivation around the turn of last century and there haven't been any cultural practices happen down there to anyone's knowledge or any gatherings. So that was the basis of that statement was the consultation was done and the lack of any... Ms. Aiu: So consultation was like one on one or something. There wasn't like. Mr. Welborn: It wasn't a CIA or that level cause that wasn't required but as part of, State Historic Preservation Division did request that the archaeologist got out and try to gather some information. I believe Merrylee Chandler was contacted and she didn't have any information. Mike Dyer was actually the most knowledgeable about that property. And then there was a very great map and Rechtman found in his archival research which is in his report that shows some of the historic use a very, very informative map and that was the basis for a lot of this. It's this one here. Chair: Anymore questions? Ms. Sheehan: I just had a couple Ben. There were three trenches dug and you haven't done anymore if you are going to do the barn or anything different like and building the house you have a driveway, you have a circular driveway coming in. So I didn't know if these trenches because I didn't have the maps are they just only there for a certain reason or did you not trench in any other places? August 5, 2010 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 33 Mr, Welborn: Rechtman when he was doing the inventory survey the trenches were all done within the kuleana parcel which is this one here and so there was no subsurface testing done outside of that and so he chose the location that he thought would represent what he saw which was all cleared and once he got down in there he felt like he had enough subsurface testing about pretty broad conclusions about the entire site. Chair: The stratigraphy was always pretty clear. Mr. Welborn: And there was not much there was his conclusion. Chair; Yes I can see it by the color. Mr. Welborn: Yes he was really confident actually. He did get excited about it. I think there is probably going to be subsurface testing as needed as we get into this other area. Ms. Sheehan: Next question does the auwai run every? Mr. Welborn: Unfortunately no. Ms. Sheehan: And then do these existing buildings have electricity? Mr. Welborn: There are some solar panels. Ms. Sheehan: That's all, kind of off the grid. So telephone no wire? Mr. Welborn: No. Ms. Sheehan: Would be off the grid too? Mr. Welborn: He is going to try to keep it off the grid too because trenching down there is quite hard to get in. He is going to try to bring in County water though. Ms. Sheehan: There is no water now to these dwellings? Mr. Welborn: One of the things that he is proposing is to drill a well. So yes it is going to be an off the grid type project. Ms. Sheehan: Ok thank you. This is great. Ms. Aiu: So I am more confused. You know this little stream here does it run out of the Kilauea River or into the Kilauea River? Mr. Welborn: In to the river. You know we looked high and low to find the name for that stream and we couldn't find it which was really interesting cause it's not... August 5, 2010 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 34 Chair: I personally have not done any research on this particular piece of property. Kauai Historical Society the only think that we are going through I remember we have some good photographs of the back of the river essentially where it starts to bottom out right there. We were there because there was another property that we were looking at not too long ago. It might be worth taking another look at these photographs because I do remember other farmsteads within these now that I see exactly where it is in the scene. Mr. Welborn: Yes there is a few other sites that are kind of similar to this. Chair: We also contain all of the Kilauea Plantation materials. It is within the Society also. So if you have a chance you know come take a look. Our maps are superb. Mr. Welborn: Yes we will probably have Rechtman come take a look at that stuff. Chair: Yes send Rechtman in and then we can make an appointment. Mr. Welborn: There is another stream that is just kind of, it's on the other side of the seventeen acres that is named and at first we though this one was that one but it's a different stream. Chair: Anymore questions? Ok let me recap. Some of the things you may want to keep in mind is naturally keeping the subsurface to a minimum as possible using the embers and things like that and also I am sure the footings for the gazebos are dug in stuff like that. Mr. Welborn: Well but they are going to be relocated though. Chair: Yes but it sounds like minimal footings and stuff like that. Mr. Welborn: Yes they are not big structures. Mr. Welborn: Yes at this point the flags are not up as far as extra sensitive subsurface. However, just to keep in mind the minimal you can do to keep underground disturbance the better. And then the other one was one of the persons you may want to consider to have a look at it is Thomas Hashimoto. He lives right there in Kilauea. He is in the center of town. He is no longer with NTBG. So he is retired. He is by far the finest stone wall builder on the north and awesome man. That's it for me. At this particular point does he need a KHPRC recommends A,B, C and D? Staff. The usual a recap on the comments that we pull out. Mr. Welborn: We are going to the Planning Commission on the 24"' so it would be nice to have something to incorporate. Chair: First let's thank the applicant for the in depth report. We really appreciate that level of detail and so let's thank for the nature of this report is awesome. It's well done. Also that at this particular point we are looking at subsurface, be careful with it you know keep it at a minimum August 5, 2010 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 35 even though the flags aren't up. And the other one at this point consider Thomas Hasimoto to advise you on the stone. Anything else? Mr. Welborn: We can maybe do a follow up if you folks, you know down the line. Chair: It's up to you folks. We will leave that up to your discretion. Mr. Welborn: And this report I sent to, I gave you folks a link where you can download this and you can save it as a digital file for your archives. Chair: And then the last one would be for Bob Rechtman to do a little bit more research within the archives of this island and then we will be good to go. Mr. Welborn: Great. There is a lot more work to be done so that's all good stuff-. Chair: Thank you so much, anything else commissioners? Is there anybody in the room who wish to address this? (None.) Ok we are ready to vote. Mr. Helder: We have a vote? The motion... Staff. Yes what I have been recommending is a standard motion would be to receive the information provided and to transmit KHPRC comments and those comments I pulled out from the recording and my notes as far as the significant recommendations. Ms. Sheehan: So that is the motion. To receive and to... Chair: The motion is to accept the information provided and transmit KHPRC's comments. Ms. Sheehan: So moved. Ms. Summers: Second. Chair: It's been moved and seconded any further discussion? (None.) All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote.) Any opposed? (None.) Thank you. SELECTION OF NEXT MEETING DATE AND AGENDA TOPICS The next KHPRC Meeting is scheduled on Thursday, September 2, 2010. August 5, 2010 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 36 ADJOURNMENT The meeting was adjourned at 5:12 p.m. tlespectfully Submitted, ee U. Jimenez Secretary Date: SP ® 2 7fO