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HomeMy WebLinkAboutapr52012KAUAI COUNTY HISTORIC PRESERVATION REVIEW COMMISSION Lihue Civic Center, Moikeha Building, Meeting Room 2A /213 MINUTES A regular meeting of the Kauai County Historic Preservation Commission (KHPRC) was held on April 5, 2012 in the Lihue Civic Center, Moikeha Building, Meeting Room 2A /2B. The following Commissioners were present: Kuuleialoha Santos, Chairperson, Pat Griffin, Vice Chairperson, Danita Aiu, David Helder, Patsy Sheehan, and Randy Wichman. The following Commissioner was absent: Jane Gray. Before the meeting was called to order, returning Commission member Patsy Sheehan was sworn in by Mr. Topenio of the County Clerk's Office, CALL TO ORDER Chairperson Santos called the meeting to order at 3:01 p.m. APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA Mr. Wichman: Madame Chair, motion to chang e business and we can discuss our minutes towards directly into new business that would be good. Mr. Helder: Second. Chair: All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote). APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES the agenda by moving directly into new the end of the meeting but if we can move Chair: Ok approval of the meeting minutes for the March 1, 2012, Mr. Wichman: Ok the minutes. I understand the recording went south, everything. Is it possible for us to paragraph or paraphrase a short paragraph for each 1,2,and 3? Can we do that right now? You weren't here last meeting. We had every single hot shot in the book in the room. Mr. Helder: Why? Mr. Wichman: No because they were doing the 3 bridges -- Opaekaa... So they had every single expert in the room. V92012 Master Files \Commissions\llistoric Preservation\.Minutes'uMinutes 4 -27 -2012 SJ 4 -5 -12 KHPRC Meeting Minules,doc April 5; 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 2 Mr. Helder: And we have no minutes? Is that what you are saying? Mr. Wichman: Yes, the recording went south. However, in order to recap the discussion and some of the, I ki�ow that on number 1, the first one Opaekaa was option number 2. Which essentially what it is in option number 2 we are saying that readapt, reuse the bridge. Redo the trusses. Redo the foundation and you are still keep the same look but have the same thing. Use the same bridge and have the same thing. Mr. Helder: What are you doing? Are you trying to reconstruct the minutes? Or do you just want a synopsis? Mr. Wichman: We want a clearer recommendation. Chair: It is stated in this minute, you know, it is stated. Ms. Griffin: Except that we were really strong last month that it should just be one lane. That, that option two is a rehabilitation not a change to two lanes. Chair: Which they have that. Mr. Helder: Would you like to... Ms. Sheehan: Their option 2 was what they wanted, not what we? Mr. Wichman: No it's what we wanted. Ms. Sheehan: No but 2 lanes or 1 lanes. We said option 2 with 1 lane. So it hasn't changed. Mr. Wichman: Yes but build the approaches to it a little bit better. Mr. Helder: Would you guys like to write up a synopsis of what you believe our commission did and then submit that so that it can be an addendum to this? That's what I would recommend. Ms. Griffin: I actually have and you know technolog; express our undying loyalty to it that it slaps us in the discussion about the,;e bridges and as an addendum, circumstances I read a couple of letters from the past them as an addendum to the current minutes. And I and one.. . Mr. Helder: Were these letters presented at the time? is such a fickle lover and we know sooner face and doesn't work. We did have a long because I hadn't planned to but under the about these bridges and I Would like to add have copies. One was from Barnes Riznik Ms. Griffin: Yes they were and so I, well like I say I applaud Shan for the work that she does and we have all been in that horrible situation trying to work with technology but the first one from the National Trust talking about going through 4F, 106, those legal requirements, and I read Barnes Riznik's letter and so I would like to add them as an addendum. April 5, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 3 Mr. Helder: They don't have to be an addendum. They can just be put into the minutes word for word because they were... Mr. Jung: When it comes to these types of issues, when recordings go out, you don't need verbatim minutes for Sunshine Law requirements. You can do it paraphrased. So anything you guys can do in terms of the recapturing what was said would be helpful. This was made a part of the record, was received as part of the record. It was submitted. So it's sort of already an addendum but I think that for clarification purposes we can "addendize" them to the actually paraphrased minutes just in case there is any discrepancy in the future. It was a pre - consult so the next 2 meetings that are going to happen regarding these bridges will go over the recommendations that you guys gave in terms of what the design of the bridge should look like at those next meetings. Ms. Griffin: And I thought that given the fickleness of the technology Shan did a reasonable job. I think that Randy's discussion making sure because the option 2 for instance even showed 1 lane or 2 lanes and that sense of having 1 lane as she correctly wrote is important to the discussion cause that option was for rehabilitation and it's particularly import because in the media release that we got about the upcoming community meetings, even after all of these years there is nothing in that release that says that these are historic bridges and that's unbelievably frustrating after it's come for pre - consults to this commission that there seems to be this long term denial of the fact that these are historic bridges. So with that inclusion, I feel like... Chair: So would someone like to write something? Mr. Wichman: No I think at this particular point whereby adding this to the minutes we close it. Chair: Ok. Mr. Wichman: And then thank you for reminding us it was a pre - consultation and that we have a few more rounds to go with these bridges. So if you are ok with that then motion to approve the minutes with the inclusion of this. Ms. Sheehan: Second, Chair: All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote.) ANNOUNCEMENTS AND GENERAL BUSINESS MATTERS Re: CLG project and funding investigative committee Mr. Wichman: Madame Chair we have before us Myles Hironaka with the aid of the Director wrote a letter to SHPD essentially for the application and we have it here before us. What this does right here is essentially finalizes the reason why we started the permitted interaction group April 5, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 4 was to work on this letter with Myles. As of now the permitted 'interaction group has accomplished its objectives and now motion to disband the P I G. Chair: Can I get a second? Ms. Aiu: I don't see any reason to disband yet even though we are not an active group at least we will be there when something comes up. Mr. Wichman: We will reform again when something comes up. Ms. Aiu: That's like a pain in the butt to keep reforming. Mr. Jung: Well actually technically the P I G has a specific scope so the scope was accomplish. Ms. Aiu: And that was to work on the inventorry which we haven't. Mr. Jung: Well to identify. Ms. Aiu: No it was the whole thing. The grant and to work on how we were going to do it when the inventory so that we could work on that portion of it without having to have a quorum, without having to have sunshine and that I could just call 3 or 4 people in a flash and say who wants to work on this. That was the idea of it cause we weren't going anywhere. I sat on this committee for 4 years. We have always talked about we are going to do this, we are going to do this and we never did it and that is why I brought up that idea. Now Pat and I, we stayed in Liliu'e from 8 o'clock in the morning till 3 o'clock in the afternoon and we kept running into each other cause we are killing time for the council to call. Then Shan calls us. Both Pat and I are at the library at the same time. We jump in our cars. We get there and Mike Dahilig is walking out of the council meeting. It is over like that. Ms. Griffin: And we were delighted. Ms. Aiu: It was great but I mean that is the purpose of being there. If she and I had to make a presentation of some sort we could. We wouldn't have to get everybody involved. As it was Mike squared it away. She and I left and that was the end of that. Ms. Griffin: But you are right. The P I G, what we have talked about so often and you brought up a lot that last year is how do we go about the inventory. What's included cause this isn't near enough money, $50,000, to do a complete inventory and I think that's what you are saying Danita. That, that's part of the scope of work of this P I G. Ms. Aiu: And it doesn't have to be decided only by the P I G. If we had a quorum, we want to put it on the agenda that's fine but if we find that he is gone to Australia and you've gone to someplace else and there is nobody. That's what kept happening you know we all go someplace. We are busy people. So then ok who is here? We get the people and we start it off and that's how. You weren't here when we started it off cause you were gone. So that's why I am not in April 5, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 5 favor of disbanded yet. Unless you. think, Ian, that it's unique and we haven't had any meeting other than one. It's not we are trying to run away with this. We are just trying to get things done. Mr. Jung: I have to go back in it cause I remember worked on it a while ago in terms of establishing the scope. Mr. Wichman: Yes check it out. Mr. Jung: I just have to make sure the scope is tight and then if... Mr. Wichman: To the best of my memory I signed on to walk with Myles and you to get that grant application going and that has happened. As far as the building inventory you and Pat is good enough. Ms, Aiu: No but there is so many people with like, you know I don't know her section. You Haight have a section. That's why we have people from all sections but it doesn't mean that you have to be there cause if you cannot I can always call you up right that kind of stuff. That was the part that we were trying to get. Mr. Jung: Yes so let me go back and if I can have this deferred and I can go back and take a look make sure it's tight. If we need to recreate it we can do that. Mr. Wichman: No motion was madtm so. Ms. Aiu: And that's whatever right. We just want to, if you know of another vehicle that get;> us going I am ok with that too. Chair: Ok so motion denied until you research it. Mr. Wichman: It wasn't seconded so we are done. COMMUNICATIONS Re: Letter (4/15/12) from Commissioner Pat Griffin transmitting The Preservation Office Guide to Historic Roads, by Paul Daniel Marriott. Ms. Aiu: I wanted to bring up a point about the bridge. So you gave us a presentation, Pat, the last time we were here, and you had some information about some work that had been done earlier by Dr. Lichtenstein right and so I went to look at my records and behold. So then I talked to Russell and he says he has put 8 boxes of his work, including the work of Dr. Lichtenstein under this building somewhere. Mr. Jung: This building? Ms. Aiu: I think it's this building. He said, "I put em in the basement." Where do you think? April 5, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 6 Mt. Juniz: It could be in Planning's dungeon. Ms. Aiu: Ok he said it was 8 boxes in the waiting for him to say I will go with you, basement and he said 'it's in there. I said ok. I was Mr. Jung: Do you recall when? Pre Iniki or post? Ms. Aiu: When he put those boxes? Mr. Jung: Yes. Ms. Aiu: I think when he resigned, retired. Mr. Jung: Ricky? Ms. Aiu: No, no Russell Sugano who was the Deputy County Engineer. Mr. Jung: Public Wotks. Ms. Aiu: And this was during his time. I have a letter from here attention Mr. Sugano from Wilson Okamoto and it gives. Pat has a lot more and she might have been down in that basement before I don't know, and I don't know at what point she wants to go through all of her things but that is where it stands now. I talked to Doug Haigh and he said, "I will help you." I was thinking maybe I don't know why somebody give it to these people? Why do we keep paying money? Russell said what, he was paid (inaudible) or something like that. I said oh I don't know. You know you pay the money and it disappears into thin air, the studies. I'd like to see these people get the study. Can we give these people the study? KAI Hawaii, they were like, what study you know. Ms. Griffin: Partial answet? Russell, for the record, was very helpful to me and other people working on the Puuopae Bridge back in 2004. I, in 2008 when I requested for qualifications when this was first sent out to the public about replacing the three bridge:; that are under consideration. A few of us went to Public Works and said wait a minute that's not a legal way td do it. These are historic bridges and two of them are on the National Register and one of them especially is extremely important acid they rewrote the RFQ a bit but didn't put in their qualification rating that engineers should have: reservation experience. Further in 2008 I and an associate of mine who happens to be an attorney went in to Public Works and saw some records, including the letter in 1992 which was sent from Ed Renaud to Danita Aiu who was then Chair of the KHPRC about instructions. I am a consulting party, I think still and people do call me as of last August, the SCS Archaeologist, and I kept talking about how these records were in Public Works and nobody could seem to find them. I had ended up taking photos of those and so when they didn't come out and further communicatiogs and misunderstandings I did write, on January 18 of this year, to Larry Dill expressing my grave concerns about the process and the way for the bridges and I did include Dr. Lichtenstein's plans April S, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 7 and schemes and the letter to you from '92 going up through 2008 and that's why last month I was so shocked and reacted from the Latin side of my genes with what was displayed. This is what I sent Larry in January and I did copy KAI Hawaii, SCS Archeologist, and the Western Region of the National Trust, the Legal Department and others. So It is an utter astonishment like I said to get to this press release and it's still not there. I can into, the communication that I sent everybody, the Preservation Office Guide to Historic Roads, Ms. Aiu: I just want to get something clear in my mind. You have there what I would have found in Russel's boxes? Ms. Griffin: Nobody seems to be able to find them and they would not, the secretary at the time — the person who ,gave us these files, was reticent, this was in 2008, to let us Xerox them. But I did take photos. ' So yes these are, there are 3 schemes that Abba Lichtenstein, man of international renown, he is an engineer, preservation bridge designer. He was very active here in the `90s with the restoration of the Hanalei Bridge and Wilson Okamoto was contracted by the County to look at Opaekaa Bridge and they subbed out to Abba and he came forth with 3 schemes to rehabilitate that fabulous resource that . we have on this Island. That National Treasure, the Opaekaa Bridge and the cost, just to let you know, to rehabilitate the 3 schemes ranged between $160,000 and $240,000. And I am sorry to say that at that point in 1992, 20 years ago, it was already deteriorated and there has been no maintenance, basically, since which is why Barnes Riznik could write in his letter this January that it is hard to be forging about the neglect to that structure. Mr. Helder: Can I interrupt you for a second cause I still have kind of a disconnect of not being there. Apparently, something is missing that should be? Ms. Griffin: The file that had the Wilson Okamoto contract seems to be lost but I think Danita and Russell may have just found it. Mr. Helder: And DOT is saying they are not aware of this? Mr. Wichman: The County. Ms. Griffin: And then now the contract. Mr. Wickman: Not DOT? Ms. Griffin: And something is now, the County is moving forward to make these depreciated bridges safe again and they have contracted with the engineers, KAI Hawaii, to do the studies and we'll use their word "improvements" on the bridges. So last month they presented to us options for each of the bridges: the Opaekaa.; the Puuopae Bridge, which when we were on the commission in '04 you all who were on tasked me in putting in a nomination for the National Register; and the Kapahi Bridge, which is considerable mauka of any of the rest of this discussion. When KAI Hawaii presented last month 3 of the 4 options for Opaekaa Bridge where to totally replace the bridge. The forth option which was to utilize the existing fabulously April 5, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 8 historic structure ivas still skimming, was 1 lane or 2 lanes and you can't restore that structure and then talk about 2 lanes. So we, am I doing ok still? county consultants to look at. Mr. Jun ,2: I think before we get to the depths of the discussion we should probably put that on the agenda. Mr. Wichman: At this point you had provided a really good reference for Public Works, for Scientific Consultant's, for all the County consultants. It's really good and I think we can accept that right there. Ms. Griffin: If the tape recorder hadn't failed us you would be more up to date and so. Mr. Wichman: The rest of it we are just kind of going over old ground but really it's just about Pat busted out a good reference for county consultants to look at. That was good. Mr. Helder: Did they accept it? Mr. Wichman: They will get a copy? Mr. Rung: They will get a copy of the recommendation. It was a pre - consultation. Mr. Helder: Recommendation? What does that mean? They will get a recommendation to take a look at the copy or they will get a copy? Mr. Jung: From the recommendations that the body gave to them cause they just came in for a pre - consult to look at design elements. So they will be going on a public meeting on those design elements. Ms. Sheehan: I had a question, the boxes that are stowed away are they going to shed more light, do you think, on this subject? Ms. Aiu: The studies are supposed in there. Ms. Sheehan: Is it the County's responsibility to do this now that you found out it might me there or is it, it isn't our responsibility to go dig up the boxes. I mean you could. That would be a help but whose responsibility is it to look for these things so that they can use them? Ms. Aiu: I don't know. I mean the way I look at my position here is sort of what Pat does, we do -",That we gotta do right. So if I want to you know like I want to call up Russell cause I want to find out what's the deal with this. He told me he said. "You know if it wasn't for John Apana that bridge would be gone already." I said what do you mean? He said, "John went down there and he put 2 big beams in, in the `90s and that's what stabilized the bridge." So I was planning to go down and I couldn't find a way to go down. I gotta go through somebody's private property. I gotta call the guy to see if I can go approach the bridge from up and come down. But I am willing to go and look for the boxes but I have to get permission too. I know I can't just go down and look for it. April 5, 2012 K.H.P.R.C, Meeting Minutes Page 9 Mr_ Jung: I will go. Ms. Aiu: You would give me permission? Mr. Junk: No if you can just email me what I am looking for I can go and try to find it. Mr. Helder: Can she go with you? Ms. Aiu: No if you can look for yourself that is good cause I won't be able to look until summer. There is 8 boxes and I don't know how Russell put them. Mr. Jung: But there is no guaranty as to how the prior my influence the new studies. We can certainly... Ms. Aiu: There is no guaranty but they guy figured out ways to stabilize the bride without tearing it down. He gave 3 schemes and those guys gave 3 schemes too. I don't know. Ms. Griffin: Well the difference is that these schemes that Abba gave are all treating it from an historic preservation perspective. Not destroying the bridge and putting up something new. If we move to communications in the letter we can weave this conversation into the preservation guide to historic roads. Mr. Helder: You have got to get the original documents though. So whatever it takes to get those. Ms. Aiu: Give me your phone numbers. I will call you guys. Mr. Helder: There you go. Ms. Aiu: We have got to get permission first. Mr. Jung: I will go. They are public record. They are county work product through our paid consultants but most likely they are not privileged because they were a consultant doing work for the county for an engineering project. So it's likely they are public records. Ms. Sheehan: I think I would be more worried that they are labeled on the box so that you don't have 49,000 boxes with no good labeling. There is no inventory of everything in there? Mr. Wichman: It won't be the first time he is looking for boxes. Mr. Jung: There is no guaranty. Pat if you could email me. Ms. Aiu: Ok 8 boxes. Mr. Helder: The thing is would you recognize the names on the paperwork if you opened the boxes and looked? April 5, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 10 Ms. Aiu: Oh yes. Mr. Helder: If you would but I am asking if he would. Ms. Aiu: Oh. Ms. Griffin: I would be more than happy to go down. Mr. Helder: It's a matter of opening the boxes, taking a look at a document and seeing if it has an association. But if he doesn't recognize the names or the department then he might not recognize the documents. So somebody who would should go. Mr. Jung: Pat can help guide me. Chair: So would you guys like to add this to the agenda, the topic, for the next agenda? No? Mr. Helder: I don't think it needs to be unless you find the boxes. Well put it on there and then we will hope for the best on the boxes. Ms. Griffin: I would like to suggest that let's see how these public meeting go that KAI Hawai'i has planned and find out more about when they are coming back to us so that we are having a discussion around, I mean the County does have consultants at this stage so rather than discussing it in abstract. That's my suggestion. Mr._ Jung: But in the mean time let's try and find the documents. Chair: Alright moving on. Mr. Wichman: Yes we are just under communications and Pat's document. Mr. Helder: Or you can put it down as an update on the agenda. Ms. Sheehan: Status report? Mr. Helder: Yes just a status report. If we don't use then we don't use it. Ms. Griffin: I would defer to Ian and Shan. Mr. Jung: It would be just for discussion purposes and old business. Chair: Alright on to communications. Mr. Wichman: Yes we just did. April 5, 2612 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 11 Ms. Griffin: Ok so I was privileged to receive this copy, The Preservation Office Guide to Historic Roads and thought that it would be a really useful thing for all of us to see and read because we have had and will continue to have more bridges and roads, I am sorry to say, but you know within the last few months the Omao Bridge came up before us on Kaumuali`i Highway and the Lzhu'e Mill Bridge will come again as it has for 10 years or more. Since Barnes was on the committe6 in the `90s and looking and this was wri`en by a man who has been involved in Hawai'i projects. He was involved with the Hanalei Roads Committee and with Maui projects and it's actually geared towards State Historic Preservation Offices and that's why it's called "Preservation Office Guide to Historic Roads." I know it'p a little, you know there is a lot of information here and I just want to point out that lie starts by saying across the United States historic roads are being lost through demolition, neglect, and poor management sometimes this is due to transportation policy sometimes due to external pressures such as land use development and sometimes simply ignorance. An Marriott goes on about how there is, you know, we as a community, as a culture are kind of unaware that roads too are historic. So I wanted to point out that one of the things that always comes up about roads is safety and nobody ever, he talks about the Anasazi Indians in the 11 'l' century putting up walls to protect their roadways and you will find on page 7 he says there is a real question as roads change and cars change and so forth how do we preserve the historic qualities without sacrificing the safety and efficiency required by modern usage. So I urge you to look at that cause it always comes up this safety and how to do it and he goes on to talk about what historic roads are and charocter defining features and something that comes up a lot in our commission discussions. What are the character defining features? Whether it's a building or road and he talks in roads abotat to include road, curb, gutter, alignment, pavement, shoulder, roadside features immediately adjacent to the road such as lighting, setting, landscape features, cultural landscape, character of the community through which it passes. So it's worth looking at that different types of roads. He talks in page 27 about Hawaiian roads and talks about Maui and he calls it King Piilani and the Alaloa that was built on Maui at the time. And going on to page 36 looking at our own birthstone he talks about the good roads movement between 1890 and 1025 and that dovetailed with HawaiTs annexation, it's entry into the territory and the major road construction that went on, on Kauai when the belt road when and the homesteads, the completion of Kapa`a and Wailua Homesteads. So yoti might look at that and then just further page 49 and 50 he talks about safety and liability and I think when we are talking to Public Work and working with the County and looking at ways, cause safety and preservation are not antithetical. They don't have to mutually exclusive elements and the more we can understand what Department of Transportation and Federal Highways Laws are and how we can work on both retaining. You know all of us want safety and how do you do it in the context of preservation and this guide really helps that on pages 50 and following. He goes on to talk about the National Highways System and we don't think we have a National Highway System but we do; Kuhi`o Highway, Kaumuali`i Highway that's considered National April 5, 2012 K.ILP.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 12 I4ighways. It's going to have different controls and requirements and Rice Street for instancy. So I urge you, and of course he talks about the National Historic Preservation Act of 1966. That's where we talk about Section 106 and the National Transportation Act of 1966 and Section 4F which is regulatory. Section 4F says that we cannot demolish a structure, a park, a whatever if we are using Federal funds unless there is "no reasonable and prudent alternative" and I think that is important to remember too. Of course that is not a public conversation but it is regulatory. It's the most powerful preservation requirement in law today and so I urge you to read that section starting on page 54 on what that means, that Section 4F and how we can use it to preserve the past, increase safety, and keep our roads functioning and still reminding us of the past and our heritage corridors. Mr. Helder: I do want to point out one thing. When we did this Section 106 workshop that lasted days it was also on 4F and they went into great lengths to point out that it wasn't the law. That we were advisory only. Ms. Griffin: Section 106 is advisory. 4F is regulatory. Mr. Helder: Well yes but well the point that they made was that it, from our level all we could db is recommend. Ms. Griffin: Right. Section 106, National Historic Preservation Act, is advisory but it is advisory and it is within the public process and it does have weight. 4F is regulatory and that is, that is the law stated without, unless there is no reasonable and prudent alternative. And that makes, you know it kind of pulleys our concept that it would be in transportation rather than in preservation law that we would have the most powerful tools but it is regulatory but it's not a public process. Mr. Jung: It's like 'ihe HRS 6E process. Ms. Griffin: 6E on the State level. Mr. Jung: But you know it doesn't mean that the project can be denied if something has to be removed or completely destroyed and there has to be mitigative efforts you have to have a mitigation plan. Mr. Helder: Yes but it doesn't stop it. Mr. Jung: The goal is to at least look at how to not stop it. Mr. Helder: I remember, that the bottom line is if they do everything that can the project can go forward. Ms. Griffin: Not necessarily in 4F but there are ways to say that there is no reasonable but it still, like I say that 4F is regulatory and that is really important to, you know grasp on to. Mr. Helder: Yes I would have to go home and read it cause that just doesn't fall in line to what they were saying to us. I mean it does and it doesn't. April 3, 2012 K.I RR.C. Meeting Minutes Page 13 Ms. Griffin: I went through this whole thing more than I thought I would just to hopefully tantalize you all into reading this. Ms. Aiu: I like page 6. You saw the sign there it says preserve this bridge no need to widen, Hama. You just came from there when we went you were going to Hana when we left. Ms. Sheehan: Yes we probably passed it. Ms. Aiu: Talk about an unsafe road. Mr. Wichman: I would fly to Hana. Ms. Griffin: It is the bridge in Kaupo that they made into a thirty -two foot wide bridge that kinda precipitated those of us that who worked on the Puuopae Bridge which was going to be turned into a thirty -two foot wide bridge. You can see this huge, honkin structure at Kaupo that makes no, no sense at all within that environment. So I am sure the sign is down and if you go on further in he brings back up Hawaii and it's really worthwhile and it's a readable document but one that can take us not only through roads but give us ways of thinking in our other preservation work as we look at Secretary Standards and try to mold them into the work that we are doingl. UNIIaINISHED BUSINESS There was no Unfinished Business. NEW BUSINESS Re: Sueoka Store, TMK: 2 -8- 08:35, Koloa, Kauai Addition of solar photovoltaic system including mounting hardware, electrical equipment and appurtenant wiring. Chair: New business, Sueoka Store, addition of photovoltaic system including mounting hardware, electrical equipment and wiring. Do we have anybody that would fake to talk? Mr. Douglas Phillips: Thank you commissioners for taking time to hear us on this matter. We were in the Planning Department of course and all the stages and steps of doing something like this. Chair: Please state your name,, Mr. Phillips: I am Doug Phillips. And so it came apparent that the building was quite old and was definitely going to run into this process and also we wanted to change a couple of things but they weren't on the exterior of the building. It was just some changes to the truss work inside the building to make it stronger to support the weight of the solar. And so we did apply for a permit April 5, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 14 for those small changes and then the permits were also applied for the overall and then here we are. You might see some additional elevations that we made that showed the one part of the building that you could where the solar is and that would be on the road side as you pull into the parking lot. Mr. Wichman: The western side. Mr. Phillips: That's correct. A couple of things to note there is that the main exposure of the building has a parapet wall and you wouldn't see the solar at all from the main road. And also as you come down Koloa Road from the west you really wouldn't see the solar until you got to the store because there is trees blocking the view until you get to the parking lot. Chair: Commissioners do you have any questions, comments? Ms. Aiu: Is this like taking up more than half of your roof, three - fourths of the roof? Mr. Phillips: It is. It's actually as much as we could put on the roof because and even that does not really offset Rod's... Mr. Sueoka: Yes we are doing the maximum. Mr. Phillips: It just gets about a third of his bill taken care of. Ms. Sheehan: And on the inside we are going to do Mr. Phillips: Yes we are going to do some change and it just has to do with the web of the trusses. Some blocks are put in there... Mr. Wichman: So that's not for us to review. Mr. Phillips: You are looking at the overall plan. Mr. Wichman: I believe that you made your best effort to hide it as best as you can. I think in the other ones that we have dealt with t1l.ey have also done their best in order to low profile and move it back and things like that. I think all of us here agree that some of these buildings need to start being off the grid as much as you can even if it's a small thing but you get off the grid. Ms. Sheehan: I think the front view is really, you cannot detect it at all. Ms. Griffin: I took a couple of pictures, when I went down, from the west side and then from the back of Yamamoto's store which I am going to pass around to other people. And I think like all of us, you know, one of the tasks is to find ways to take the past into the future and for ail of us and we do applaud those efforts all the time. So that is a start finding ways to do that is really good and I know you all will succeed in that. April 5, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 15 In current preservation thinking, the best way to do that is to do it so that it is not visible. And what I found was doing it on that western side is actually quite visible and would change the look of the building and I am wondering because we get so much sun in Hawai'i you know these shed roofs it's really hard to put it on the south side. Is there anything to put it on back then? I f'on't know enough about your building or you know the angle you had to put it in. If you could put it on the east side rather than the west where you have got that whole line of structures moving along and truly wouldn't be visible in the way it is from this side. Mr. Phillips; That's a great question, but what you see in there is you are seeing the portion that is visible in every single inch of that roof is covered all the way to the back. It is an east west facing slop. So you know there is the west you are seeing in that rendering, the view that would probably from the northwest and all the other hips are covered and including that very small storage building that rod has in the back with containers. So we are even putting, we are utilizing one of his out buildings for the solar. So if we take the panels off of the western plank we will lose power. Ms. Griffin: So you are saying that it will be both on the east side and the west side panels. You would think we would be further along with this technology. Can you tell us a little bit more about the history of the building Mr. Sueoka? Mr. Sueoka: In 1935 it was the Hawaiian National Bank at that time. That is when we took it over. It was only the front portion and over the years it has expanded to the back. So that's about it. I don't know when it was built. I can't tell you when it was built. It was already built. So the front portion is exactly how it was. Ms. Griffin: Even the fixed pane glass? Mr. Sueoka: No I don't think they had those. They had the doors. Mr. Wichman: That false western front was always there. Mr.Sueoka: The entrai"ice to the store was in the front of the store. Ms. Griffin: Now when did you start with the store? Mr. Sueoka: 1918 in the plantation camp. Ms. Griffin: No, no you are not that old. Mr. Sueoka: When I started, I'm sorry, about 1974. Ms. Griffin: So it looked to me when I went down to visit, I used to go into Sueoka a lot but I haven't been there for a while and looking at it from these eyes I noticed there was the original store and then there was additions in the back. Now has that been in your time? I know part was just a basic shelter over an air conditioning that tower. April 5, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 16 Mr. Sueoka: From what I recall that is something else like an automotive place or something in the back and that was completely torn down attached you know to where we went over from; what I recall when I was really small running around over there and then there was another house in the back. There was some kind of auto repair building right in the back. Like I said the store was really small, about 1/3. There was another building in the back; Slowly everything changed, got torn down and the store got bigger and went further and further back. The back half of the store, in the past when I was growing up, was the warehouse but it converted to the whole store to the back and we got containers and separate warehouses. We even had a warehouse down the road. So it kind of changed over time. I don't really recall what that business was. Ms. Griffin: Yea it looks like the structure over the air condition, you are not going to put anything on that right? Mr. Phillips: I think there are panels on that. Now there are aisles in the panels required by the Fire Department for setback. The panels don't come all the way to the edges of any of the roofs. It's sort of the requirement so you will see in some of the renderings how there is a three foot aisle all the way around. Ms. Griffin: Is there anyway, cause you are saying that the panels are going to be both on the east and west and they will go all the way to the back? Is there any way to obscure them to make them look like, you know more integrated into the historic aspect of the building? Mr. Helder: You know I think that this is what we would call a delicious dilemma. They are doing what we want. That's what we need. We need people to take these old buildings and really readapt them and make them useful and I think to do anything that would cut down on the amount of usability of this electricity makes this building harder to keep adapting and I don't know if there is a disguise for this. If this building had a parapet all the way around and the electricity was so good but anything that they do to remove it from visibility is going to cut down on it. Ms. Griffin: I don't disagree with that and I am not opposed to it but I sat on the citizen advisory committee for the Llhu'e Town Core Urban Design Plan and we have these design overlays on Ekahi and Elua Street fot streets off of Kuhi`o Highway specifically for solar and stuff where they shouldn't be visible. They are on the back and that's why, don't get me wrong I am not opposed I am just you know we tend to be, it's not a word but "discussional ". So I am just trying to see ways cause like I said on .Akahi and Elu.a Street it's very specific about not having panels and the same is true with the secretary standards. Now as we grapple with ways, especially on Kauai where our electricity is so high, in trying to find ways and a store like yours where you have got refrigerated and frozen the expense makes one quake. So I am not opposed to it. I am just trying to look at how we look at preservation and the national standards and apply there to this specific application. Mr. Helder: They probably got every square inch on it that they can do and they are still only getting 30% of what they are using. Anything that would cut back on that would make it less I would think. I don't know how they could do it. April 5, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 17 Ms. Aiu: That is the first question I asked. Mr Wichman: Under the circumstances I don't see how they could do any better. Mr. Helder: I don't either. Although yes don't fault you for asking though. Ms. Griffin: And in a minutes there may be something, new here but what we got yesterday was showing only the western side which was why I went down. and looked. What you are saying it's both sides of this structure. Mr. _Phillips; yes I think if you guys have a complete plan you can open it to one of the separations that's a top down view. Mr. Wichman: I think, Madame Chair, I think at this point we have recommendations. Chair: Anyone in the public that would like to talk? Ms. Griffin: You can come up here. Mr. Ted Blake: This store has a long history... Chair: State your name for the record please, Mr. Blake: My name is Ted Blake. I live in Koloa. Sueoka Store has a long history in Koloa. We backed their plans for the renovation a couple of years ago. Unfortunately economy went south and the renovations were put on hold and you know we like to support them because they support the community and they have been a very strong part of our community. We just want to return their support. Chair: Thank you. Ms. Griffin: I have a motion. I move that we accept the plan with the recommendation that as a mitigating factor they, Sueoka, include something about the history of the store so that we have that in our records. And if there is any way to mitigate the view of these panels on the west side; that they do so. Chair: Can we get a second? Or do you want to add on? Or do you want... Mr. Wichman: I think the suggestion that Pat is making in one is a small panel with historical Sueoka family. I think that is you know on a pdster board somewhere inside the store that because it is something important. That building is very much of the recommendations that there what she is saying. So essentially you have the history of the family a part of it. The more people know about it the better. I think in Pat's suggestion that you include some of the historical of your family within your store. Are you ok with that? April 5,2Q12 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 18 Mr. Sueoka: Yes, would it halae to a specific location? Mr. Wichman: No, nip. It's just a recommendation and I think that it would add the historical quality of K61oa and the Sueoka Family's legacy. So with that, then I second it with the following pi.eface that the KHPRC roml mends the Sueoka family for working so hard on this. We know that you have done a really good job. You have done the best you can with it and we wish you all the best. Second. Chair: All in favor? (Ayes - Santos, Aiu, Sheehan, Wickman & Griffin) Mr. Heider: I don't like that recommendation. I am having a problem with that really. But you have five so. Mr. Wichman: I think we are ok with it. Mr. Helder: Well if we are going we are pleased and we think they have done all that they can do but we are recommending that they do more. That's a conflict and makes u look kind of goofy, literally. I mean it makes us look Confused. Like we don't have a clear vision of it and if we don't then that probably needs to be looked at. Mr. Wichman: I am ok. The suggestion has been made. Are you ok with? Mr. Jung: It's been moved and acted. Mr. Wichman: We are good. Mr. Helder: It's a done deal. Mr. Wichman: All those in favor? Chair: I think we said that, and we already had five. Alright thank you very much. Mr. Phillips: Thank you and I would just like to tell you that we did follow through with the State Historic Preservation and we sent them all these materials. They haven't made a decision but we expect them too. They really have got a back log. Mr. Wichman: They are waiting for us. Mr. Phillips: And we did approach the community association and today we got a letter from them endorsing the project. Chair: We got that. Mr. Phillips; You got ibe letter already? Ok. Ms. Sheehan: Thank you. Good luck. April 5, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 19 SELECTION OF NEXT MEETING DATE AND AGENDA TOPICS The next KHPRC Meeting is scheduled on Thursday, April 5, 2012, ADJOURNMENT The meeting was adjourned at 5:16 p.m. Respectfully Submitted, lee U. Jimenez Secretary Date: 4/27/12