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Home My WebLink Aboutmay32012KAUAI COUNTY HISTORIC PRESERVATION REVIEW COMMISSION Lihue Civic Center, Moikeha Building, Meeting Room 2A/213 MINUTES A regular meeting of the Kauai County Historic Preservation Commission (KHPRC) was held on May 3, 2012 in the Lihue Civic Center, Moikeha Building, Meeting Room 2A/2B. The following Commissioners were present: Kuuleialoha Santos, Chairperson, Danita Aiu, and Jane Gray, David Helder, and Randy Wichman. The following Commissioners were absent: Pat Griffin, Vice Chairperson and Patsy Sheehan. Before the meeting was called to order, returning Commission member Patsy Sheehan was sworn in by Mr. Topenio of the County Cleric's Office. CALL TO ORDER Chairperson Santos called the meeting to order at 3:07 p.m. APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA The agenda was approved as circulated. APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES The Minutes of the April 5, 2012 meeting were approved as circulated. ANNOUNCEMENTS AND GENERAL BUSINESS MATTERS COMMUNICATIONS Re: Letter (3/18/2012) from Elaine Godbey regarding the nomination of the 1911 Hanapepe Bridge for historic preservation. Chair: Communications, Letter received from Elaine Godbey regarding the nomination of the 1911 Hanapepe Bridge for historic preservation. First thing on the agenda is anybody here for the Hanapepe Bridge? Please come forward. May 3, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 2 Ms. Elsie Godbey: Is there a time constraint? Shall we give a history of why we? Chair: Let's do a brief history yes and then please introduce yourselves. Ms. Dorthea Hayashi: Dorthea Hayashi from Hanapepe. Mr. Elsie Godbey: I am Elsie Godbey we are on this committee for the 1911 Hanapepe Bridge and (inaudible). Ms. Dorthea Hayashi: Ok anyway is two years, three years we wanted and we had a celebration of the 1911 or 100 year birthday and as prior to we were in contact with the County to do preservation work/restoration work. As we going through that process we were hoping to have it done by the 100` birthday. However, we ran into all kinds of problems and one of it was to have you know that walkway restored which is what everyone wanted. I have these petitions that we were able to gather in three days saying that they want to preserve that walkway. So anyway, I know I am jumping all around so please stop me if you want to ask me any questions. So what happened was that it was never done but we did have our celebration to call attention to the fact that we wanted to have this bridge resurrected and preserved. So at this time nothing has been done and so we didn't know what to do about this whole thing. Nobody could guide us and we were fortunate enough that Elsie has been going all of these bridge meetings and she found out that we could contact an historic preservation division and they really kind enough to come down to Hanapepe and we were able to meet with them. We were given advice to first write a letter to them to say that this is what we wanted and we also gave him the petition at that time and after he received our letter, Ross contacted Elsie and myself to say that he did receive it and he advised us to come here to ask for this board to nominate our bridge. So right now we are at this time but we are still, we don't know what to really do. Chair: Do you guys know the history of the bridge? Mr. Wichman: Oh yes I do. Madame Chair if I may. Have you started writing the application? Ms. Hayashi: We were told, Elsie kind of knows, we were told to come here first. Mr.. Wichman: Well I think at this particular point that I think we will let every single member /commissioner here speak for themselves but we are in absolute support of the nomination of this bridge and so if that is required and in order for you to begin the application well then that's a done deal. The second set of course you know the rules stipulate for the application itself that it be an historian that actually writes it and the application is a little bit, it's gotten a little more complicated than it used to me right there. Ms. Godbey: I am sorry to interrupt but last night we went to that historic preservation, that meeting, they told us if the State owns it, the State applies. If the County owns it, so then now we are confused again. May 3, 2612 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 3 Mr. Wichman: I think you are right in a sense that in order to get this body's essential sanction is good. I think it will help SHPD in order to do it. The second step is that County actually owns this particular bridge and then that would be the next step would be as the County as the land owner would be signing off and also approving it. So by our approval of this nomination process the County can now go ahead and say yes we support this nomination. Now you have both entities that you really need. I wasn't aware that you actually needed this particular steps when creating a national historic landmark you have need a predetermination letter but I think in this case you are doing essentially your homework ahead of it. Once you the County is behind it as the landowner the process is clear. Now the application is written and I know you spent years researching it already. Ms. Godbey: Not really you know. We are doing this and our research was inviting County and Public Works to come and advise us and about two years and advice from them we are finding what they are telling us was not really helpful because they were telling us we had to have ADA. Our bridge had been blocked off and they had made a little pedestrian walkway on the road and it used to be two land traffic but them they made it one lane and this little pedestrian pathway. So then we had a committee meeting for all that. They were telling that we must have ADA and they had consulted with the State and they sad we had to have it so what do you want to do with the pedestrian pathway and all that. Then we find out that's not true that some projects, registered historic, you may have a chance of leaving it as is. Mr. Helder: At this particular stage at our level you have our approval. The task that's before you now is to fulfill the informational requirements needed to go forward to get it on the State Register. Ms. Hayashi: Is that a form? Mr. Helder: Well it's actually, it is a form but what is required from it and you can get copies from the State of other bridges. We have Hanalei roads which has put the Hanalei Bridge on. There should be an organizational chart how to do it. You have the Hanalei Bridge which has been put on the State and National Historic Registers. You should contact the Hanalei Road Committee and get a look at their application and the Pat Griffin who is a member of this commission has also put another bridge on both the State and the National Registers. You should get a look at her application. Basically the applications want to know why the bridge should be considered for historic registers and there is all of these questions that go along. Who designed it? Why is it important? All of that and you just follow that whole outline down and you find out all the information to submit you write it in and you submit it. That's not the County that does that or the State that's an individual that or a group of individuals that believes that this is important to their community to be on it and having come here and said you would like to have us support it you have that. The next thing is to get a copy of the application, what it looks like and see how one has been filled out. We can recommend both Pat Griffin and Hanalei Roads to go to and they will be supportive. The really appreciate brides being put on the register. I wish you God speed, I think it's great. Ms. Hayashi: Do we need something written from you to show some kind of support? May 3, 20I2 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 4 Mr. Helder: If you would like a letter of support. Mr. Jung: If they want to do that it is certainly up to them. Mr. Wichman: We will do it in motion form at the end of this conversation we will do a motion. Mr. Jung: But just so you know the process. The sheet I just handed you is the nomination process and the way it works is, and it doesn't have to be the owner of the land or the site itself, it can be anybody makes a petition for nomination. That goes to the Hawai'i Historic Review Board. They take a look at it and then the process starts from there and if the landowner objects then there is a full contested case. If the landowner accepts then you move on and the board takes action. So there is several different prongs within that sheet and how it works. If you have access to the intemet you can go to the SHPD website and they have the application on the website and what you need to fill out. But like Commissioner was saying use examples as to what's been done in the past. You don't have to reinvent the wheel in terms of style and format. You just got to fill in the context. Ms. Hayashi: Thank you cause no one ever gave us anything. Mr. Helder: We have some guys over here from the State that they would help. Chair: They me them last night. Mr. Helder: Did they say that they will help you through the process of finding the forms? Ms. Hayashi: They didn't really give us an answer. Ms. Godbey: They said to go through this process and if not then they would give us the forms. Mr. Wichman: The forms are available online. However, I think what we may be able to do, I don't know whether or not we can create a onetime only permitted interaction group next month the first Thursday we would meet here at 2 o'clock and then with Pat Griffin and myself and whoever wants to join the P I G would be able to take the first step right there and then we can actually go through the application and take that first step with you. It is absolutely important for this body that we get thins on the National Register and it is to our, it is not on to this body but it is to the Island's interest that you move forward on the application as soon as possible. If it means that we meet here at 2 o'clock next month in order to go line by line over this particular application to get things going with Pat and myself or whoever wants to join the P I G I think we can create this for this one time only and then get you beyond this step right here. Mr. Jung: But before we do that we got to for the next agenda, it would have to be the meeting after cause the next meeting would have to identify the P I G, develop the scope, then appoint the committee members. You can't do it now. It's got to be on the agenda. Mr. Helder: We can't do it today? May 3, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 5 Mr. Jung: No it's got to be on the agenda. Mr. Helder: Isn't it on the agenda? Mr. Jung: No, no for development of the P I G. Mr, Wickman: Well how about, will we have to do it officially? Can we just meet with some of the commissioners with them at 2 o'clock and just go through the application? Mr. Jung: You can have two. Mr. Wichman: Why don't we just, instead of... Mr. Jung: Can't have more than three. Mr. Wichman: So official. Mr. Jung: Can't have three or more. Mr. Helder: Three or more. Mr. Wichman: Overseen by the Chair of course. Mr. Helder: You need two. So you need Pat for one and you want to be the other? Mr. Wickman: I am in. Mr. Helder: Ok then that's the two and you can do that informally, two people? Mr. Jung: You can do that but you can't agree to vote on any particular item. Mr. Wichman: Of course not. It's just step by step just talk over the you know. Mr. Jung: You can do that. Mr. Helder: Will you get in touch with Pat on that? Mr. Wichsnan: Absolutely yes. Mr. Helder: Ok and we have your two phone numbers so tentatively Pat is in Spain right now so tentatively meeting here next month one hour before this normal meeting the two of them will meet with you. Mr. Wichman: Instead of meeting we can probably push up the timetable a little bit and meet at the Kauai Historical Society instead of here. So why don't we do that. How about we do that? I May 3, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 6 think that would be in order to help you through this first step that we actually go through the application process with you, both Pat and I. When does she get back from Spain? Mr. Helder: She said she would be back for the next meeting. I think on the 15'h Chair: So you can only have two people? Mr. Jung: You can only have two people interact and discuss business but you cannot vote. Chair: What if the Chair shows up and just hangs out? Mr. Jung: You can't be a part of the discussion then it will be subject to Sunshine Law. Mr. Helder: Two will be enough to do this. Chair: I would like to see the process. Mr. Wichman: As soon as Pat comes then let's make an appointment and let's meet at the Kauai Historical Society. And I think within an hour or two we have got it all mapped out and then we can take a look. it's not rocket science. Ms. Hayashi: Ok so you will give us a call then. Mr. Wichman: Yes. Ms. Ham: We wanted to submit the petition to just show that these are the local people. Is that required? Mr. Helder: Hang on to that. That's not part of the application process but that may come up down the road sometime when you are looking for money. Mr. Jung: The actual decision is the Hawai'i Historic Review Board. Not this body cause this body can only make the recommendation which would then go up to the review board up on Oahu. So they make the determination on what goes on the state registry. Ms. Hayashi: It's a no brainer. Mr. Wichman: Commissioners we can create the motion right now. We can also as usual we have done many letters in the past so that they can have a letter from this commission actually voicing our support for the nomination. Mr. Helder: Are you making a motion? Mr. Wichman: I am about too. I would like to make the following motion that KHRPC is in support of the nomination of the Hanapepe Bridge and is here to offer any assistance capable. May 3, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 7 Ms. Hqyashi and Ms. Godbey: The 19111 Mr. Wichman: These guys will give us the details yes. This motion will go into the letter itself. This will be part of the letter that this body will produce in a week or two. In the final form because you know remember when Ricky we have done this many, many times. Ms. Aiu: What I want to see in the motion is a letter of support that can go out next week to SHPD. Mr. Wichman: Yes this motion will be in a letter of support that will be forwarded to you as soos as it is done. Ms. Aiu: And sent to Ross. Mr. Wichman: Yes but it will be part of your file. This letter will be part of your file. Mr. Helder: Second. Chair: All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote.) Anybody in the audience? Ms. Aiu: May I make a comment? Thank you ladies for your work many, many years ago I worked with Gwen Hamabata to do main street at your place and that's when we first started to look at all your historical things out there. Thank you for keeping this going. I know you have been here to many meetings and I congratulate you on that. Thank you. Chair: Do you want to add something? Unidentified Speaker from the Audience: I am aware that the County has a repair project for that bridge. Ms. Godbye and Ms. Hayashi: Only repairs nothing else. Mr. Wichman: Is Doug here? Doug can I put you on the spot for a second. Mr. Doug Haigh: Sure. Chair: Do you want to step forward please. Mr. Haigh: Dough Haigh, County of Kauai, Department of Public Works, Mr.Wichman: Would you be signing off on this? Mr. Haigh: The County Engineer would be the one I believe would comment on it. I am not personally involved with the project so I really don't have any position. Mr. Wichman: You don't foresee County having any issues. May 3, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 8 Mr. Haigh: In bridges in the past we have signed off on in ones that were more challenging for us as far as preservation issues. For my personal experience I wouldn't anticipate any problems but I certainly don't have the authority (inaudible). Mr. Jung: And just so you guys know I spoke with the County Engineer about this and you know the process the way it works it will come back to him for review and comment. So as the nomination moves forward it will all get sorted out. Mr. Wickman: I just want to make sure there is no major flags at this point. So ok. Re: Letter (3/30/2012) from Calvin Mann, PMP, Project Manager, SSFM International, Inc. — Inquiry regarding including the Kauai Historic Preservation Review Commission's consultation regarding the State Department of Transportation maintenance project between mileposts 1.1 and 4.21 for a total distance of 3.1 which include the Hanalei Bridge. Chair: Next letter from Calvin Mann, PMP, Project Manager, SSFM International, inquiry regarding the Kauai Historic Preservation Review consultation regarding the State Department of Transportation maintenance project between mileposts 1.1 and 4.21 for a total distance of 3.1 which include the Hanalei Bridge. Do we have anybody? Come on down. Hi. Mr. Fred Reyes: Our design... Chair: Please state your name for the record. Mr. Fred Reyes: Oh I am sorry. My name is Fred Reyes with DOT Kauai. Mr. Stanford Iwamoto: Stanford Iwamoto, Highways. Mr. Reyes: Calvin Mann could not make it. They did the planning, permitting, design, reviewing, and advertising. Do we discuss the project? Chair: Yes. Mr. Reyes: Ok on March 30th we sent the review commission a letter stating whether you would like informal or formal consultation on a DOT project and we briefly described the project. The project involves mostly restriping the road. No widening. We are replacing faded and old strips and putting in new pavement markers. Same pattern basically which consists mostly double center stripe and then the white edge line. We are also doing the crosswalks striping and we are adding a couple of new crosswalks in the Hanalei area in particular at the Ching Young Village Shopping Center where there is a problem: with jaywalking. We are putting in a crosswalk in between the two driveways. May 3, 2012 KRP.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 9 Mr. Iwamoto: So the project basically affects Route 560 which is the Hanalei area, the Hanalei Bridge to Wailcoko Bridge. We are doing maintenance work, striping, replacing signs, and things listed in your letter. Because it affects the road down there which is part of an historic corridor we are here to solicit comments from you folks. Mr. Wichman: Madame Chair if I may. Chair; Go ahead. Mr. Wichman: Can you briefly go over your consultation with Hanalei Roads Committee and the community in Hanalei on this. Mr. Reves: Sure we have had two formal meetings in Hanalei with the Hanalei Roads Committee, the representatives from DOT, the consultant SSFM, and the roads committee. That was in October of last year October, 2011 and another one in February followed by a public informational meeting that we advertised and that was on April 12. Mr. Wichman: And can you briefly go over the suggestions that came out of the Hanalei Community. Mr. Reyes: Yes for example originally this project was generated by our DOT Traffic Branch in Oahu and what they do is they look at accident data and says oh this corridor or this particular segment of highway has more than usual number of accidents. So then they take a closer look and they review the signage and geometries, curves and then they make recommendations. We were basically acting on the recommendations and then the Hanalei Roads Committee came in and says this is ok, this is ok, we don't like rumble strips can you do something else besides rumble strips. Mr. Wichman: Yes I read that. Mr. Reyes: That's why we did striping. We have a compilation list I don't want to go over all the details but the things that the Hanalei Roads Committee liked and what they didn't like. Mr. Wichman: So you are working very closely with the Hanalei Roads Committee. I think when I first saw what you submitted right here my fist initial thought was the amount of signage. It's a little bit difficult to read because it's a little bit small and having gone through the corridor several times within the last week or so are you adding, it seems like there is an additional signage that will be coming into the approaches into the Hanalei Bridge area. Mr. Reyes; Right now we have some emergency projects to the roads that washed away in March so we have almost permanent one lane road approaching the bridge. So there is additional construction but if you don't count those we haven't really added anymore traffic signs accept for Waioli Bridge. Mr. Wichman: And the flashing ones on either side of the bridge too. That's additional. May 3, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 10 Mr. Iwamoto: Yes and as part of this proposed project there really are not that many more signs that we will be adding. Primarily we are deleting signs. I think there are a couple at the bridge and the flashing beacon. Mr. Wichman: Yes additional to what we are see already there. Mr. Iwamoto: Yes but we are not really adding a whole lot more. Mr. Reyes: In fact we are deleting two signs on the highway which is the vertical height limitations 14'6" which is no longer true. We have rehabilitation of the bridge and the height is 17feet. Ms. Aiu: Madame Chair. So you said you met with the community, I heard you say that and you said they made suggestions and what I would like to know is are their suggestions reflected in this plan already? Mr. Reyes: The meeting went very smoothly, the April 12 community meeting; I don't think there was any major suggestions made. I do have the minutes of that. Chair: Can we look at the (inaudible) please. Mr. Iwamoto. I guess some of the things we talked to them about were rumble strips for one thing. They said that they were concerned about things like noise and things like that. We looked at some of the guardrails and approaches and we will not be doing that as part of this project. I think those were the two major ones. We have added the crosswalks were things that they brought up and I think those were the three items that we discussed with them or came out over our meetings with them. Ms. Aiu: Ok I know you said you are going to do the rumble strips and I am glad I don't live in Hanalei because I love the rumble strips out in Wailua. I called Ray and I told him that but to each his own. What I am thinking is that if they made suggestions that I hope that they are reflected in here and that you were able to accommodate whatever suggestions that they made. There was a time no can, no can. So I just wanted to make sure. Mr. Reyes: For the most part we did however, there was a couple of points that we did not bring but by the time the April meeting came, the community meeting we had pretty much reached that compromise solution with the roads committee. The one point where they said we should make the roads narrower they are into traffic calming so they wanted to us to make the roads narrower. In the beginning we said no they are pretty narrow already. The standard road is about 12 feet wide (inaudible.) Mr. Wichman: Discussions on guardrail styles. I know we had this in the past. Where are you on those now? May 3, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 11 Mr. Reyes: We did not, we refrained from adding. We were proposing to add guardrails at the historic Waioli and Waipa bridges and we retracted that idea because the roads committee were opposed to new guardrails. Mr. Wichman: Yes I know we were discussing certain styles. going on to the Waipa Bridge and the Waikoko Bridge. They itself. Mr. Reyes: We had proposed nothing for Waikoko Bridge proposed various entry improvements. Guardrails was one (inaudible) it's a little more modern looking. We are doing Hanalei Bridge where there are guardrails already. Mr. Wichman: Those are the existing metal ones. Mr. Reyes: Painted brown to match what is out there now. Now the guardrails are actually will not be attached to the bridge but Waipa and Waioli we had of them. The other one was some replacement guardrails in Mr. Helder: I had a question; I saw that the roads committee brought it up about the flashing light at Hanalei Bridge. Has there been a lot of accidents on Hanalei Bridge because of the layout. Mr. Reyes: There has been a couple of fatalities not on the bridge itself but just on one of the approaches to the bridge coming back from Hanalei and part of it could have been attributed to the darkness. We have added a street light there but we feel that the flashing arrows will bring attention to people in unusual conditions. It's not only the bridge but there is some very sharp curvature of the highway on the taro field side. Mr. Helder: And one of the questions that they asked which I would ask is you say temporary light to see it has an impact. How long is that going to be on before you... Mr. Iwamoto: We didn't set a timeframe we just told them you know see how it works out and we get feedback from the community and them and see how it goes. Mr. Helder: What I am asking is that at what point are you going to get feedback from the community. Mr. Iwamoto: I am pretty sure within a month or a couple of weeks. Mr. Helder: It's temporary. Mr. Iwamoto; I would say within a couple of months we will make a decision. Mr. Helder: I drive that every day and I did that 5 o'clock this morning and the problem there is coming into Hanalei there is so many signs that you are blinded by the signs. There is just people look down and there is twenty signs. Just past Waikoko there is loads and loads of signs May 3, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 12 reflecting at you as opposed to being informative its visually confusing. So the idea of adding more signs (inaudible). Mr. Iwamoto: We will see how it works and out and see what kind of feedback we get from the community. Mr. Rem: Now whenever you have one lane bridges on a two lane highway DOT standard treatments which include a number of signs as well as weight postings. Mr. Helder: I don't have to hold your feet to the fire on this one because I know the Hanalei roads are going to do that. Chair: Do you guys have anymore? Mr. Wichman: They opened the conversation with whether we wanted to do a preconsultation or did we want to move it forward at this particular point. Ms. Aiu: For me this is enough. I want to preconsult on that bridge though, the Lihu'e Bridge. Mr. Helder: I would like it to come back here after they have a look at what the flashing light does before it goes forward from there. Mr. Wichman: At this point I think we could say that we appreciate very much the public input from Hanalei and to definitely continue your dialogue with the Hanalei community definitely. We appreciate that very much. Is there anybody here from Hanalei Roads? How do you want to handle this? Should we do this as a preconsultation? Chair: I think you did ask for public testimony. Do we have anybody from the public that wants to speak on this? No. Mr. Reyes: I wanted to add that this is a Federal Aid project and we have someone from Federal Highways here and the construction funding is 90 percent to 10. Mr. Wichman: Yes so in other words this is part of the 106. As I said you will be coming back one more time right and then so if we handle this as a preconsultation today then all parties are not bound at all. Essentially what we are doing right now is streamlining the process. Everyone here has been able to have a say on it at this point this body would definitely like to hear from the Hanalei Roads Committee on this matter prior to the final motion. So if you are ok with that today the final motion doesn't happen. It will happen the next time you come in. What we have done today streamline the process down for you. Mr. Reyes: That's fine but the flashing beacon may not be installed for two more months. We have to go through the advertising process and then the awards process and then we are going to come back before the project. Sorry can you clarify about the need to return after the project? I am sorry can you clarify the need to return after the flashing? May 3: 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 13 Mr. Helder: I would like to see the results of your inquiry about it because that's a fairly substantial impact on that road and if you are doing a test and then you are going to evaluate it I would like to see the evaluation and I would like to see what the community says about it having been there and before we go through the final approval process. Chair: So you guys want to make a motion? Mr. Wichman: I think because it's a preconsulation a motion isn't necessary. I think you have had that this particular body at this time isn't raising any serious flags. That's a good sign. Mr. Reyes: Thank you. We know that David lives out there. Mr. Helder: And I want to tell you guys you are doing a great job out there. It looks great you know I appreciate it. Mr. Reyes: We are also nearly completing our Waiole repair project noting that the bridge is 100 years old. Mr. Wichman: Yes I appreciate any effort to keep this corridor stunning as possible. Mr. Helder: Thank you very much. UNIFINISHED BUSINESS Re: Certified Local Government (CLG) Grant Update Mr. Wickman: I would like to make a motion that we move the unfinished business, the Certified Local Government Grant update to the end of this meeting. Chair: Can I get a second? Ms. Aiu: Second. Chair: All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote.) NEW BUSINESS Re: Lihu'e Civic Center Chair: Next is the Lthu'e Civic Center, review for the Llhu'e Civic Center site improvements. Do we have anybody here today? Please state your name for the record. May 3, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 14 Mr. Doug Haigh: Dough Haigh, County of Kauai, Department of Public Works. In order to save the tax payers money I am here presenting the project and the Honolulu consultants are in Honolulu. Mr. Wichman: Good for you. Mr. Haigh: We have been working on the consultants with the documentation we provided you in 2007 we were at corresponding with State Historic Preservation Division co properties and at that time there were no impacts identified to educate you on what you are doing. Our understanding properties. It is a project in an historic district, this proj ect for at the environmental .icerning potential and what I would is we are still not least six years and impact stage and impacts to historic like today to do is impacting historic The project is the Lihu'e Civic Center ADA improvements and I did bring a supplemental package today to add t the ne we submitted. I apologize for that but since the closing of the Big Save our analysis of that impact to the project has been (inaudible) and so the supplemental information I brought you may be (inaudible). We divided the project into four basic areas and to step back basically is site improvements for ADA. We are primarily providing connection between the Lihu'e Civic Center, the historic county building, Rice Street, Umi Street, Hardy Street. So that's the primary goal. The Secondary goal is to start implementing some of the improvements that were identified with Uhu'e Civic Center Master Plan and Environmental Plan (inaudible). So we got kind of two things going here. The Master Plan is a multistep process identified in the plan and we are trying to implement parts of those. So area one really is the one area and this area is not in the historic district. Area one is the Rice Street parking lot in front of the Moikeha Building right over here. In this area we are getting it to be more toward the final solution that we identified in the master plan. The most significant change we are doing is we are realigning the entrance into the parking lot to align with the intersection of the street between the bank and the post office to create a safer traffic situation. Mr. Wichman: May I interrupt for a second. That intersection from the Kauai Museum, (Inaudible) Kauai Museum is fully aware of the immediate impact to that sector? Mr. Haigh: Yes in fact the supplemental plan I brought today directly affects the museum the package that was given to you it really wasn't affecting the museum. I will explain that but we have been in communication. Then area 2 is the area that I brought in supplemental and that was Eiwa Street. Just a little back ground, in the long term plan for the Ldiu'e Civic Center improvements we were looking at closing Eiwa Street. The plan was developed prior to our education into the complete street concept. The goal was to close Eiwa Street to provide more of a campus but Big Save was concerned about such so while we had Big Save as a tenant we said we would live Eiwa Street open at this point but let's do a complete street upgrade to provide more parking and to provide safe pedestrian, to create a calmer street which allows for safer and more inviting pedestrian usage. Ok so that is what the supplemental package or this area identified as area 21 May 3, 2012 IC.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 15 When Big Save closed we reacted about nine months later and said well maybe we should go ahead and close Eiwa Street now since Big Save is no longer there. We said let's take out the Eiwa Street improvements and look at closing it but we also had further consultation with our complete street experts who we have been working with and they are saying well wait a minute. You may not want to close Eiwa Street because in a complete street concepts you want more streets rather than shifting traffic and focusing, concentrating on certain streets you are better off giving options and with our upgrade we are looking at it provides a safer environment cause our concern was Eiwa Street as is, is not that safe and doesn't encourage pedestrian use. People are afraid. We have people who drive from this building to the historic county building cause they are not comfortable walking. So right now Public Works is dealing with that. When we put this package together the directions were to get Eiwa Street but since then we said wait a minute we may want to go ahead and move forward with Eiwa Street and work on complete street concepts. Have it as a safe pedestrian friendly street rather than creating this huge campus and diverting this traffic on to Umi Street and you know impacting higher flows at those intersections. So that's what's going on and that's why I brought this package. Now phase two does border the historic property. My understanding is the historic property kind of comes up to the Eiwa Street boundary and so what we have done there is we are creating a safe connection between Lzhu'e Civic Center and the Historic County Building with a crosswalk to and a supplemental package the first sheet is a demolition plan which isn't very interesting. The second sheet is more of the same and it's really the third sheet in where you can see what we are doing at Eiwa Street. The main thing we are doing is we are shifting the entrance by the museum up so that we create an intersection with the driveway that goes in front of the Historic County Building. So we have shifted it Kapa`a direction and doing that creates a nice situation for the museum cause now we have created this protective parking lot area where we will provide parking for the museum and then we are also have a safe pedestrian crossing to the Historic County Building. So anyhow and then we are providing a connection from Rice Street along Eiwa Street to get to the Historic County Building. Those are the major changes and you will also see that there is a nice pedestrian connection on the Big Save side, which is no longer Big Save, that side of the Civic Center coming back to the Historic County Building. So we are making those connection with the Lihu'e Civic Center and the Historic County Building, Mr. Helder: Can I ask you one question about Eiwa Street. I am looking at the striping for the parking on Eiwa Street and it looks backward to me. Mr. Haigh: Absolutely. We are encouraging new thinking and what this is, is reverse in diagonal parking. The concept is it's safer. It's going to take us a transition. With existing diagonal parking we have been greatly discouraging that and trying to eliminate it on County roads because when you pull out from diagonal parking you cannot see the traffic coming because you are in the driver's side seat on the opposite side of the car of where the traffic is coming and you are all the way in the parking place and you can't see traffic. May 3, 2012 K.H.P. R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 16 So as you are pulling out you are creating a potential parking hazard cause you can't really tell if cars are coming up. Where if you are driving down the road and if you are going to reverse in you are in the flow of traffic and then you stop and then the car is going to behind you. They are going to see you because they are behind you in the middle of the lane. You are going to have your light stopping and they you back in. Now when you pull out you are in the driver's seat and you are looking right at the cars coming. You are right there. So that is a much safer entrance and exit, well much safer exit, leaving the parking lot. Also when you open your car doors with the traditional diagonal parking people who exit the door, kids, they exit out into the street cause the door is blocking in their access to the side walk. Where in reverse you open the door and the kids are directed to the sidewalk and the door is blocking them from the traffic. Mr. Helder: They do this in Australia and they have a lot of trouble with trouble with it is twofold. One is when somebody pulls up to park, some to them and then they have to get everybody to back up and if there is happen. Then the second problem that they have is people who are not up and backing up into a narrow space is different than backing up into what happens in Australia. it. The reason they have body pulls up right close a line of cars it doesn't especially good backing an open street. So that's Mr. Haig : And this is a demonstration project and clearly we have lots of other parking options in the civic center for people who aren't comfortable backing up. But this is a demonstration project and we are going to try it out and it is going to be an educational process. It has been used and starting to get used more commonly and I believe on Oahu there is some reverse diagonal parking but I am not positive on that. My memory is that somebody mentioned that there are. Mr. Wichman: I presume you consulted with the Lihu'e Business Center? Mr. Haigh: Absolutely. Mr. Wichman: Any recommendations? Mr. Haig : Actually one thing they are looking at is they are encouraging us to provide a personalized crosswalk motif. We are looking at using a quilt pattern within the crosswalk to kind of create a symbol of Libu'e and identify it. There are a few challenges there as far as meeting the technical requirements of the crosswalk but we are struggling with that and I think we are coming close to a solution that is fully within the guidelines but will still be able to provide a symbol of Uhu'e. We have assigned your commission member and she is heading up that. Mr. Helder: Also I have a question the Kauai Museum had a permit in to change the back of side to the entrance to the museum. Is that still in play? Mr. Haigh: I don't believe there is a permit for that. I don't think they every formerly submitted a permit to do that work. They may have a planning permit. May 3, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 17 Mr. Helder: It carne before this board and that usually doesn't get to this board unless it has a permit that has been pulled on it. Do we know? Mr. Jung: I don't know but sometimes permits come in and get withdrawn. Mr. Helder: Because I was wondering if there was, within this plan, any accommodation for this. Mr. Haigh: I would think the plan would actually enhance this side being the entrance because we are we created kind of a safe parking area in front of the museum. Rather than having a road going and driveway going right by the parking behind the museum we are creating this little triangle if we go with this configuration. Chair: Is there anyone from the public, anything to add public? Are you done I am sorry my bad. Continue on. Mr. Haigh: Going back to the plan that we submitted, section 2 is the Hardy Street side and basically that is outside of the historic district but we are providing an ADA connection from Hardy Street to Lihu'e Civic Center and the bus stop. Right now you get off the bus and you gotta find your way through the parking lot; not very inviting and not very necessarily that safe so we are providing a safe pedestrian access, ADA compliant. And then in the set of plans that we submitted which is called area 3, that area does border the historic district and is Umi Street. And basically what we are doing on Umi Street is we are completing the sidewalk connection along the park from Rice Street down to the Historic County Building, the annex, and then continue that sidewalk down to the Kapa`a side of the County annex, and then provide another crosswalk over to the Department of Health, and making it all ADA compliant. So really it's area, Umi Street work and the Eiwa Street work that will directly be touching the historic district. Mr. Wichman: How about a question on the landscaping plan as we are going through all the SHPD letters one of the sentences in there was one of their recommendations. The only recommendations was within the landscaping that the building facades were not blocked by a certain number of trees. That still holds within this project? Mr. Haigh: Yes we are doing minimum landscaping along the Historic County Building area. Most of landscaping are along Eiwa Street which I think would be enhancing because you would get a softening between the civic center and the Historic County Building and we are getting some landscaping within the parking lot connecting to Hardy Street, On Umi Street we are pretty much just grassing cause we already have the trees there so we really aren't doing anything along Umi Street. Mr. Wichman: Now would it help today, essentially at this point I believe that we could concur with SHPD's finding with all your ADA improvements and things like that, that there is essentially no impact because of past grubbing and things like that. So I think at this particular point what we have done I the past is if we concurred with SHPD's letter that would help you? May 3, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 18 Mr. Haigh: That would be great yes because really we don't, in order to proceed with this work we don't have any, we certainly don't have any building permits. We may have a planning permit to apply for but that would be it cause it is just road work. You know road permits and then maybe a planning permit I am not absolutely certain. Mr. Wichman: At this particular point I don't know how many additional recommendations we can make at this point. Mr. Haigh: And part of you know the reason why we are here is cause we are working in this historic district and we respect this body and want to let you know what we are doing an any recommendations you can give us we want to be able to hear it. Mr. Wichman: I think the Lihu'e Business Association is doing a good job. Ms. Aiu: I wanted to walls through it today. I didn't get a chance. I had a hard time looking at all there was so much. The only historic part that concerns me and I didn't know if I saw it here or not back long ago when they paved Rice Street all of those blocks /stone are the original (inaudible) cause he took them to the Kapa`a holding station and he held them there for me until it was time to put it back. I didn't walk on this side and I don't know if that goes up the side too and like I said... Mr. Haigh: I am aware of that and the ones along Eiwa Street are just concrete. It kinda looks stone a little big cause it's so worn out you can see the aggregate you know but it's not the same as the front of the museum along Rice Street. Ok thank you. Mr. Wichman: One last question so the stones are not an issue today. Ms. Aiu: No. Mr. Haigh: Yes the existing curb. Ms. Aiu: You know what I am talking about. Mr. Haigh: Yes. I know what you are talking about. Mr. Wichman: The irrigation tunnel that's going under that is all secured? Pass Eiwa Street would be, you are right over those tunnels right? Mr. Haigh: I don't, I am not knowledgeable of a map that clearly identifies does tunnels. Mr. Wichman: We have it. Mr. Haigh: Ok because we need to get with you on that because we are adding, if we go with the Eiwa Street improvements we are adding a drain line. Of course it's not very much far off where May 3, 201.2 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 19 they put the current waterline. It's not going to be that much(inaudible) but it will be very helpful for us if we could find that. Mr. Wichman: Ok let's talk about that and get you a copy of that map because you are going to need a tunnel structure underneath this sector of town. Mr. Haigh: Yes that would be very good for us. Mr. Helder: I move that we accept this and we concur with the conclusion of the State. Mr. Wichman: Second. Chair: All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote.) Thank you. Mr. Haigh: Thank you. Re: CLG Program Status Ms. Aiu: I know that we moved the CLG down. Wait. Mr. Haigh: I am sorry. Ms. Aiu: I wanted to ask him a question in relationship to that. Would that be ok? Mr. Jung: Yes you guys can move to it now. Chair: She has a question under the Unfinished Business, Mr. Jung: Technically the Chair can move the agenda item without a vote so if you want to move it up do. Chair: We are on Unfinished Business. Ms. Aiu: Yes just for now before he leaves that's why. So remember I talked to you about the boxes. You remember that? Mr. Haigh: The boxes with once again I am sorry. Ms. Aiu: The ones from Russell that I am looking for and he told me there were eight boxes that he put some place. Mr. Haigh: Oh ok yes I vaguely remember. Ms. Aiu: I asked you if I wanted to go look for those boxes and to find the paperwork. Do you happen to know what basement cause he was telling me that there is maybe like three basements. May 3, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 20 Mr. Haigh: Well I would assume it's in the Lihu'e Civic Center the round building we have storage rooms in the basement there so I would assume he was referring to that. Now I don't know which room Road's had but it was probably, I would assume he probably stored it the area with Engineering cause I know Engineering has a room for storing items. Ms. Aiu: Ok they have a separate room so I don't have to go through 35 boxes just eight. Mr. Haigh: Well basically let me know and I will try to help you. Ms. Aiu: That night we were at the party and you forgot. Mr. Haigh: Well I did forget but you remind me. Let me know. I will be happy to coordinate that. Ms. Aiu: You don't have to come with me but if you can kind of show me where. Mr. Haigh: I think you will need assistance cause some of the boxes are high and we can try to spend a little time to try to see if we can identify. I can't guaranty anything but I will try. Ms. Aiu: Ok thank you Madame Chair, Re: Uhu'e Mill Bridge Chair: Ok we are on the next agenda item the Lihu'e Mill Bridge. Come on down. Mr. Pat Phung: Hi my name is Pat Phung. I am with the Federal Highway Administration. To my left Jim Niermann from R.M. Towill. We are here for the Lihu'e Mill project. First thank you for helping today and having a discussion the need for consultation on this project. We are here to talk about the widening of Kaumuali`i Highway form Lihu'e Mill Bridge to Rice Street and discussion should center on the design options. This is a follow up to the Memorandum of Agreement that was signed recently (inaudible). This is a very important project to us and this project is being funded under the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009. It's the last project in the State (inaudible). So Jim will go over it briefly. Mr. Jim Niermann: My name is Jim I am the planner with R.M. Towill. I think the last time I was here was for the bike path and now the bridge. What we would like from the Commission today are comments on the preliminary options. So this (inaudible) we are seeking design options and as a second follow up discussion we want to talk about out Hoomana Road also. It's not subject to the MOA but it's also being affected by the project. So we will start with Lihu'e Mill Bridge. We can go through the design options, discuss that first and then we can do the Hoomana Road. I know we had sent a package with information that has pretty much what I am going to present to you today. Real briefly the first thing I want to do is the project itself as Pat mentioned is going from Rice Street across L1iu'e Mill Bridge and then tying in to the existing. It is going to May 3, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 21 be constructed into three phases. The first phase is the realignment of Hoomana Road. So the existing road is the one in blue here. It comes down. Everything in blue is the existing and the first phase is going to be construction of the new Hoomana Road realignment. Phase two is the construction of the new, we have it labeled as the new Lihu'e Mill Bridge it's referred to as the the Ndwiliwili Bridge to differentiate with from the existing Lzhu'e Mill Bridge. Phase two is construction of the new bridge alignment that will carry the west bound traffic and then the third phase is rehabilitation of the Lihu'e Mill Bridge. The rehabilitation of this bridge does involve demolition of the bridge deck and railing and this exhibit over here shows the existing engineering design drawings and the photos from the Historic American Historic and Records. So they weren't HABS documentation. What's historic about the bridge it was constructed in 1936 by the Territory. It was the one of only two bridges in the State that was funded entirely by the Federal Government under a Public Work grade separation program. The purpose of which was to provide grade separation and that was designed by William Bartels who was the chief engineer at the time and constructed under the supervision of Robert Belt who was also a poet and in the documents there is also a poem about being lowered into the excavations for the pier footings. Interesting if you are in to that, it's kind of fun. Let's see so under the National Register Criteria it meets criteria A & C. So A contributions to the larger patterns of history contribution to the economic development for the plantation economy primarily cause of that grade separation allowed for more economical rail transit underneath for vehicle access and also the fact that it was funded entirely by federal funds. Under Criteria C which is uniqueness and distinguishing characteristics artistically engineering wise it was very advanced for its era. It's one of only two steel stringer bridges. Artistically William Bartels incorporated this kind of real simple art deco design motif into the bridge railing and also the bridge railing and posts. And then it's considered the work of a master and is characteristic of his design style. So that's where it meets the criteria. The main design constraint we have in coming up with options and the preliminary options are pretty much driven by this is the fact that the existing railings which have to be demolished can't be replicated to provide a crash rated standard to meet the current standard for crash ratings and in response to that we did three options. The first one is to provide a railing in the style of the period that is crash rated. It is essential using one railing element, one railing side on all of the outer edges of the two bridges. So this is looking in bound, into Lihu'e. So this is L-lhu'e Mill Bridge on this side this two (inaudible) and this would be the new bridge. Mr. Wichman: We are looking at a matching pair of bridges? Mr. Niermann: Essentially. The construction and the structure over here will be different. It is not going to be the steel supports underneath. So same railing element in all four locations here. Crash rated. There is a sidewalk on this side and the other consideration for both of these bridges is that (inaudible) bike lane. So the existing bridge gets widened. The sidewalk gets widened as May 3, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 22 well. The existing bridge will have those additions. The new bridge being built from scratch. So that's option one. Option two and three are essentially the same and the principle is to replicate the existing railing. It would not be crash rated but look the same as the existing but then to isolate the travel lanes with crash rated railings and we have two options for that. The first one uses two different railing elements. So it will start again with what we are calling the aesthetic pedestrian rails that would match the existing rail on the outside. Inside that would be essentially a low crash rated railing. It would be about twenty -seven to twenty -nine inches off of the curb. It might be as high as thirty - two inches and that would provide protection for the pedestrian lane and on the interior there would be this concrete barrier. So the exterior of both bridges is essentially what would be preserving that historic look. So that's option two. Mr. Wichman: In option one and two that curve, pedestrian safety, is pedestrian safety increased in option two or are we still looking at something option one pedestrian safety. Mr. Niermann: In option one it is considered to be a nine inch curb which is considered I am forgetting the terminology right now but you can't hop the curb very easily. That's what would be rated for the speed. So nine inch curb in option one. In option two it would most likely be a six inch curb and then this curb mounted railing would be on top of it. Mr. Wichman: Pedestrian safety essentially the same in option one and two. Mr. Niermann: Yes theoretically it's the same. This might provide you know another level but it meets the basic standard that's required for safety. So in option three again we are using the same just isolate the travel lane. Option three is using two railing elements. The aesthetic railing and then using this type of steel rail both on the pedestrian side as well as on that interior median. One of the main difference between two and three is having a railing as opposed to a solid railing in the median but other than that it's essentially functioning in the same way. Those are the three options for discussion at this point. So we can entertain some discussion on those options. Mr. Aiu: I have a question. Price wise can you give a little bit of what's the most expensive. Mr. Niermann: I think they are all comparable and that's where I would probably call on a friend form Kiewit. Kyle I don't know if you can speak to that. Mr. Kyle Johnson: Yes certainly. The first option is what our proposed design was. Chair: Can you state your name for the record. Mr. Johnson: Kyle Johnson from Kiewit. Chair: Thank you. Mr. Johnson: The first option was what our proposed design was and then brainstorming other options, trying to get a more similar design to the current rail is where options two and three May 3, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 23 came from and the cost between option one and two on a rough relatively similar. You add that extra; the extra line of barrier but it's less labor intensive I would say for option two it's just more material costs. So they kind of offset each other. But part of that options two and three is that the interior railing for the median is that single slope barrier. So you can get the aesthetic rail in the middle of the bridge. There is some design considerations there as well with the width of the bridge but cost as well to additional rows of barrier. Ms. Aiu: Ok thank you. Chair: Questions? Comments? Mr. Helder: My observation is that the option two and three change the feel of the bridge. You are on the bridge and you are on half bridge. You see the railing on one side that would be partially blocked by the safety barrier and then on the other side you have one of those concrete blank slope things which is really unsightly. I am talking about two and three. And on the same token option three you have the design, familiar design again on the right hand side and then you have something else there. In the sense of historic preservation it's not preserving anymore than, it's just a replication but the visuals is not the same. It's not going to feel like the original bridge. It's not going to act like the original bridge. It's almost like it's over zealous and preserving a design that by virtue of the way it's being built can't have it anyway. Whereas option one preserves, it has actually more of the feeling of the original bridge even though it doesn't have the original fagade. So it's kind of like a tossup. You have half of the design and non of the feel or you have non of the design but a great deal more of the feel. Mr. Wichman: I agree. Mr. Helder: That's just what you are looking at. Mr. Niermann: Sorry another consideration on option one. That's showing it with a metal railing on top. There is a potential variation of removing that middle rail and extending the concrete vertically. Mr. Wichman: There is a little bit of an option there which is nice. Mr. Helder: It's more like what we do have now. So you know you are going to have two big brides. You know there is no two ways about it. It's not going to be what's there. Chair: (Inaudible) the name of the bridge. Mr. Niermann: The existing bridge is still going to be referred to as Lzhu'e Mill Bridge. We are just differentiating the new bridge on the mauka as Ndwiliwili Bridge. Mr. Wichman: The name is still up for consideration? Mr. Niermann: Yes. It's our convention right now. May 3, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 24 Mr. Wichman: I don't know if you want to talk about it now but first I have a couple of questions. There is a history there and I looking at option one, which I think we are. Chair: Should we take public comment? can explain it within a few minutes. But if we are Mr. Wichman: Yes but I think once the public knows essentially the direction of our thinking they can respond there too. Clearly I think at this particular point we are leaning into option number one. However... Ms. Aiu: Speak for me. (Laughter in the background). Mr. Wichman: Is that what happens to this bridge no longer become eligible for the National Register. That's a given. In 10 /20 years it may become eligible after you are finished or would it be 30 years or something like that for now. Mr. Phung: I think it might be a longer term than that but I am not really qualified to answer that. Mr. Wichman: So essentially what we are doing right now is this bridge is no longer eligible for consideration to the National Register. Even though that's option one. Mr. Phuny,: We can look into that with the... Mr. Helder: I think to basically say that if it's altered to that degree it's not. You know and if the alteration was done by somebody famous then it might be. Then it could be another application for a different reason unless one of you is a lot more famous than I know. Mr. Phung: We can look into that question. Mr. Wichman: It's a consideration however; you know even if we lean towards a particular option all three options would eliminate it. I know you have done your research but I think we have had this discussion in the past too. Mr. Helder: A few times. Chair: Danita had a question. Ms. Aiu: So as why I said Randy speak for me. Ok option two and then I took into consideration what sense, Now when I first looked at option one, I looker in Kahala or Waialae. I wonder if you folks looked around there? Mr. Nierman: (Inaudible). so when I first looked at it I was thinking you said and I thought that made a lot of i at it and 1 said oh I think I saw this bridge at this picture. Is it in Kahala or Waialae May 3, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 25 Ms. Aiu: Yes, yes cause I saw this bridge before. So it's like and it is an older, this is an older bridge. I don't think it's a new. Mr. Niermann: That railing is a new railing. Ms. Aiu: That's a new railing? Mr. Niermann: The concrete and the railing are both new on to the bridge but it was a very close, my understanding was, it is a pretty close proximity of what was there. Say it didn't have a puka but there was a recess relief on the concrete base. I don't know exactly what that original bridge was but it did have a lot of similar or that same look. Ms. Aiu: And you are right. When I first looked at it I said I saw this bridge before. I was on this bridge in 1931 when I was hiking Kaiwi Coast. I love bridges and yes this has the look and the feel. You are right about that even though I had first thought about number two. So Randy now you can say we are all in favor. Mr. Wichman: I was in favor of option two also. Ms. Aiu: You see what influence you have. Thank you for bringing that up. Mr. Wichman: The color photographs show off right. Ms. Aiu: We didn't ask Jane. Ms. Gray: Well preservation, that's the whole thing preservation as opposed to... Ms. Aiu: You can go with one? Ms. Gray: Yes. I see that preservation is the whole idea of the commission to preserve. Mr. Wichman: The feel of it and then yes the upkeep of the 1930s. Mr. Helder: I like the idea of it without the steel because the original doesn't have the steel. So if that becomes an option that's holding more to what the original. Mr. Wichman: Raising the railings a little higher. If you eliminate the steel barrier the railings come up higher. Mr. Helder: Right. Do you have an idea of how much higher than the existing would be? Mr. Johnson: I think it was 42 inches. Mr. Phung: We will get back to you on that question. Mr. Helder: Cause that would cut into the view one way or the other. May 3, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 26 Chair: Would you like to discuss the name? Mr. Wichman: I think at this particular point we don't need to go into the naming possibilities. Mr. Helder: Anybody in the public would like to speak? Mr. Niermann. We would like to just note that, that is an issue for farther. Mr. Phung: We are going to consult with other parties such as SHPD and Historic Hawaii Foundation. Mr. Wicbman: I think in order to, I am sure you checked Koamalu and stuff in this particular valley itself prior to the construction of Lihu'e Mill there is a beautiful descriptions of all the agricultural enterprises that went along. Back then it was essentially a garden of Eden. Some of the first plantings ever brought into the islands, the first agriculture experiments were all done within that area, beautiful description. I think there is two names that could be. There is the name of the Hawaiian Village essentially where the Llhu'e Mill Bridge is there. The other one too that 1 believe but we need to look into those. There is actually a Hawaiian name for that particular valley also they can consider but just to keep in mind that its original use prior to the mill showing up in the 1850, 49, 50s, it was agricultural experiments. Lots of people did original plantings there. It's a beautiful name. There are all the famous names around that particular area too. So there is three options right there. The Hawaiian name of the small valley right there; the agriculture aspects. Chair: Ok do we have any public testimony? Anyone from the public? Ms. Annie Alan: I have a question. Why don't they just tear down the bridge if they are just going to synthetically make it look like what it is but it's not going to be. Mr. Jung: Actually you have got to come up to the table. Ms. Alan: Do I have to sit down? Chair: And state your name please. Ms. Alan: My name is Annie Alan and I am just curious about what you are talking about is that if we are going to do, we are not going to be able to probably not do much which this bridge once we put it in why aren't we just starting over with a new bridge and a new design with maybe somebody famous? I am just curious. Where is the historical part there? Mr. Wichman: The historical part is there is only two bridges of this known in the United States. We are looking at the steel truss system that's underneath the bridge itself as something that is classically very rare in the United States. So because we have had this bridge discussion, I think for maybe five or six years or maybe more, we ended up with the idea because the steel structure under the bridge, because the pilings and the footings are still really strong it is an adaptive reuse May 3, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 27 of the existing bridge. So we can incorporate it into the twenty -first century. We have got a good solid foundation. So essentially that it would be like saying like the Wailua Bridge take it all apart even thought the footings are still good right. Ms. Alan: Yes you can see from under it when you are under the Wailua Bridge, Mr. Wichman; Yes definitely but the reason essentially the rational is because the steel truss system under it is so unique in the United States, it's still in really good condition, the only parts of the bridge that were in dire straights was the actual railing itself and so we entered into quite a long bits of discussion in the railings and the looks. And so therefore today, I hope this is one our final discussion with regards to this bridge that the character and feel and look of the bridge which is that simple art deco style we really wanted to preserve it. And it will also cost a lot less money if they had to replace the whole entire thing. But in the mean time we are able to preserve the most important architectural elements by this famous guy. It's still under the bridge and keep that 1930s feel when you come across this sector. Ms. Alan: Yes it's beautiful. I was just curious. Thank you very much. Can I sit down now? Chair: Anybody else? Mr. Wichman: Did I interpret that correctly? Mr. Niermann: Yes I was going to say cost savings but also being able to preserve the steel under girders. Mr. Wichman: That was the rationale we have been working on. Mr. Niermann: So on to Hoomana Road. So Hoomana Road and the Hoomana overpass which was built in 1928 and what's unique about that right this is it was constructed completely with private funds and apparently (inaudible). So it was shortening that haul time so they wouldn't have to go all the way around Lihu'e Town. It considerably shortened that distance. So let's see it's eligible under Criterion A, it is also eligible under Criterion C for two primary reasons. Well three actually. One is for the integrity, all the materials are original. It hasn't been modified at all. The only thing that has really changed was the railroad is no longer there. The engineering and the form, the cast in place construction demonstrates a pretty nice sophistication for the time and lastly there were trying to achieve some artistic character and aesthetics with the way that they did the cast in place railings. It is also unique in that it's one of the bridges that the guardrails carry through across the over cross. So that guardrail look is in keeping all the way up the road where it's required (inaudible). And a s part of this project down here when the second bridge goes in this intersection highlighted in yellow (inaudible) will be demolished. On the makai side it's about 25 feet and on the mauka side it's about 35 linear feet of bridge that would have to be demolished to accommodate the new bridge and that's what is highlighted in red. What's being proposed is that the segment being demolished we do documentation of those. We have to tie in the new road when the new bridge goes in Hoomana Road is going to become a pedestrian/bicycle path. It's going to tie into the May 3, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 28 bicycle path that's on the highway and the guardrail that ties into Hoomana Road will be constructed to match the existing railing. So those are the two main issues. The documentation and then reconstruction of the railing, that portion of the railing (inaudible). Ms. Aiu: Wait I think I missed something. I was seeking counsel from Randy who can see these things better than me. Did you say that Hoomana Road was going to be a bicycle path? Mr. Niermann: Yes. Ms. Aiu: How are the people going to get out? Mr. Niermann: This is phase one. So the new Hoomana Road alignment, this is phase one of the Hoomana Road alignment, this phase one of the bridge improvement project. So this is going to become the road into German Hill area. It is going to be the new County road. Ms. Aiu: They are building the new road? Mr. Niermann: Correct. That's the first phase of construction. This goes in, get's constructed. Mr. Wichman: This side of the bridge. The proposed (inaudible) is just a little bit up from where Hoomana Road is. Yes so they will actually be demolishing parts of this section but be able to maintain the blue corridor right there. So they are going to redirect the traffic a little bit closer to Lxhu'e. And so it's going to be a lot safer as you are coming on to that Road as we all know. That road is terror. Mr. Niermann: This is where that yellow cattle gate is now that goes into the Grove Farm land just before you are approaching the bridge and turning in there is going to be that refuge left turn in as well as refuge left turn out lane. So there will be full movement both directions. It won't be time constrictive. That all get constructed up front and then the new bridge is actually a little bit elevated above the existing bridge so there is going to be a ramp from the Kaumuali`i Highway down to Hoomana. It's almost matching so it's just be a pathway tie in with the new guardrails being constructed. Mr. Wichman: For me it doesn't really affect the essential, the reason they call it German Hill right. In the 1870s, 80s and 90s, many Germans were hired to work the plantations. Not as lunas but actual plantation workers and were housed on this hill. That's why on this hill you have the Lutheran Church right there and Hoomana Church right there. Because it's on the lower sections of it and it's not really necessarily impacting as we get up closer to the church that's why I don't have an issue of it. The other one too and I think in this particular case that because of the safety issues with Hoomana Road right there is no left hand turn when you come out of it but you see people doing it anyway. Right now with the congestion on that bridge it's a serious, its' a danger corridor. So I think we can balance our historic preservation with the needs and the safety of our residence right there by moving this corridor up even though we are losing sections of it the idea of retaining it for a bike path/pedestrian because as we discussed earlier the pedestrian/bike path is going on to the new bridge side of it. So they will be actually crossing on the mauka side and it ties in. May 3, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 29 Mr. Niermann: The bike lanes are going to be on both the mauka and makai. Mr. Wichman: I presumed that it was just going to be on the mauka. Mr. Niermann; There will be a lane on the other side too. We did have a meeting with the community members of the pedestrian last night. I think Annie and Vick are going to share about impacts to the historic district. The new road it did require acquisition of this property here which you are probably aware o£ The house that's shown here was demolished and relocated. That's Annie's house so it's up here or was. There are some issues that they would like to go over. Mr. Helder: I would like to hear if there are some public testimony. Thank you gentleman. Chair: Come on up. Mr. Vick Alan: Vick Alan. Ms. Alan: My name is Annie still and we have been in eminent domain in 2000. We turned our home over to the State three years ago. We have picked it up and the State provided us with a home in the same like neighborhood, in the same like home which was my next door neighbors. We picked up my house, Mike Faye guys moved it in one piece and gave us that privilege to keep the aesthetic look of the island instead of tearing down that house we spent a great deal of money to restore it to preserve it, we restored it. Right now we are refinishing dotting the I's on it. It's gorgeous. So with all due respect to the neighborhood and just a little history if you go up Hoomana Road everybody on that street really appreciates their home, and the street, and the historic value. We don't have fences and we don't have gates. We don't have walls. We share our common lawns and we maintained them. It's really a beautiful neighborhood and it's an unsaid thing. It just happens that way. So having said all that we have a V cut going in where the State of Hawaii and the Federal Government who is going in is going to do a V cut to make this road and there is going to be, I don't know the technical stuff, but there is a chance that if we don't stay on top of it it's going to ruin everything we have on German Hill. Including the Church, the church is there but the quaintness of the church is the neighborhood you know and so.. . Mr. Alan: I am blind so I can only go by what people tell me but I did work construction for 25 years and moved mass amounts of dirt in that process. So I understand what a V cut is and from my understanding of the V cut is this is the entrance to German Hill. Now what you are looking at is it is going to be coming off.of the highway and you're correct in saying that the entrance and exit out of Hoomana Road is very precarious and it's going be better with moving the road towards Rice Street. So that's going to be an improvement. As far as the V cut being put in, the way I see it as you are going from the highway up German Hill it's going to be a curved road now until it hits straight but on one side it's going to be a one and a half to one cut. Then it's going to have a road. Then you are going to have a two to one May 3, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 30 slope with a razor back that goes down like this. So you are going to have this little chunk like something right there that's going to look pretty ugly. So my concern is just you know to make it look nice when it's all said and done. How are we going to do that? How are we going to accomplish it? It's a design build project and I call it the Okie Do and everybody is Okie Do it's a design build but the road is where it is. It's been designed by the State and that's what Kiewit actually bid on with that being said. So as far as design build I don't really quite understand what they mean unless they are talking about maybe the coconut tree needs to be over there instead of there. But we are looking to actually, cause we are going to be the ones impacted the most, we are the first house on the right what is going to make it for a dangerous turn into our driveway is you an no longer see, once they put the cut in the road you know it's going to affect our line of site pulling out of our driveway and they are going to say well ok maybe we gotta change the speed limit to 15 maybe so then your line of site, per guidelines, you know we did some research the line of site out of a driveway 155 feet is the minimum for 25, 15 I think it drops down to 80. We don't even have 50 feet once they made that cut. So I don't know how they are going to address the problem to tell you the truth. Ms. Alan: So also keeping in mind we know we have to do retaining wall and we know that to keep it safe when you walk out of our property there is going to be a long drop. So are we going to go to chain link fences I mean this is where it is very important that we all stay on top of this because now you are cruising down a super highway that used to be quaint. You are going over a bridge, that's why I brought up the question about the bridge, that is being fabricated like how it used to and German Hill is being a, so as you are coming up here I would say my house is right here. That was my house. This is still my garage so we are going to pull the garage out of there because I lease all of this land so our garage is still her and so this is our driveway right here. So aside from our personal dangers that's not really you guys as much as al the other. Mr. Alan: And I was under the understanding that they were going to talk about wall and saying maybe they can't put in a wall because block walls don't go for the neighborhood but you know we have seen some fantastic work you know with plaster and make it look like a lava wall and I just wanted to make sure that the top of my slope right there at the entrance to German Hill isn't a six foot tall chain link fence so that I don't fall down a one and a half to one foot slope. Ms. Alan: Something that we hang our beach towels on and then the other thing, you know it's a tough subject for me, but the other thing is vegetation. What are we going to do with all of the beautiful trees that have been there? Are we going to be to come in there with bulldozers and we are going to just run em all down and then plant little things and then maybe our grand children, our great grandchildren might see a tree that's 20 or 30 feet high you know selectively choose how we tear apart this hill. It's really important that we make decisions about how we tear apart this hill cause there is a lot. It's not just a bridge. It's our home. Mr. Helder: I think to kind of clarify what you are saying is not unlike what's going on in Hanalei in a sense that Hanalei is a specific kind of district and in Hanalei is an historic district, I don't know if German Hill is. If it isn't it probably should be. But the concerns in Hanalei are that the road is part of that district and what it does relative to that district is important to the May 3, 2612 K.H.P.R.C, Meeting Minutes Page 31 people who live there and the way it feels and the way it works and I think what you are saying and I think what I would like to paraphrase in whatever we do is that due consideration be given to the district and the feel of the environment in the district when the plans are made to carry out cuts in this road and done along with consultation with the residence of the district and if things that have been done up in Hanalei where they made the walls look like lava rock to mitigate the appearance of them be considered in the doing of this cut so that the least amount of impact on this district would be what occurs and to satisfy the residents in the area. To the degree in which can be done and so in any kind of motion I would like to say that this should be done in consultation with the residents of that area and their concerns be addressed to keep the feel of the district. Does that satisfy? Ms. Alan: It does but then it's not just us on German Hill. It's everybody who comes to visit Kauai that pulls up Rice Street that makes that left hand turn. This is what they are going to see and this is Kauai and this isn't, and Hanalei is beautiful and I understand where you are going but it's also imperative that we keep the look. I mean we are going through the trouble for the bridge so we should and we have done it so many times on our island it makes our island so special and then we get to this point right here were where we are introducing everybody to the south shore everywhere. It's not just us that the thirty people on the island that's up on the hill. It's not just us. I think it's the community. It's everybody. It's all of us. You know. Mr. Alan: As far as you said that it may not be an historical district.. . Mr. Helder: No, no that's not what I meant. Ms. Aiu: You are right but it has a meaning. Mr. Helder: Not that it is one. Mr. Wichman: It should beone. Ms. Aiu: It's designation. That's called a designation. It's a legal thing. Mr. Alan: The shuttle busses were running up there and the Lutheran Church isn't that the oldest Lutheran church in the United States? Mr. Helder: Oh we all recognize the district. German Hill is well known here. It just that nobody has applied and put it on the list that's what I am, I am not apply that it has no value certainly. Ms. Alan: We got brushed off cause we actually never came to you guys and all of this that has been going through for 12 years we went to the museum and because we really didn't know we kind of just got brushed off cause our home wasn't as old as the church and this and that and they directed me to you but they didn't give us any information how to find you. So I didn't really know about you guys until Kiewit told us and invited us to come. Kiewet of all people the ones that are building the road which is awesome I think cause you know then they want to help right. May 3, 2032 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 32 Mr. Wichman: Neither was I aware that eminent domain was going on in this sector because I to tear the house down and we are going no and went through had handled the archives for the island for quite a while now. Most of the information that I need for German Hill will be at the Kauai Historical Society not the museum. I am not aware at all of the history of your eminent domain. However, you and Mr. Alan have brought up some really good points and I think if you don't mind I would like to take up some of the best points with Jim Niermann. Ms. Alan: I have some really good video of the moving of the house and all that. I will bring by for you guys. Mr. Alan: Well and they wanted to tear the house down and we are going no and went through what he meant by the V cut and the nature of it and what the extra expense to preserve the house. Ms. Aiu: Thank you for preserving the house. Mr. Wichman: A couple quick ones. I can't speak, on what he meant by the V cut and the nature of it and what it looks like not being construction it's difficult. Mr. Niermann: I can bring up the engineers but it might be better if I do cause it will kind of be in layman's terms. Mr. Wichman: But essentially the question is because of the aesthetic view of it you know he said it was ugly. Mr. Niermann; I know that, that's kind of subjective but we can talk about that. As far as what the cut is essentially this whole area is a big hill, a big puu that comes down and the road is going to be cutting through that to get from a low grade to a high grade. So in profile essentially if you say that's what it looks like right now. Their house is over here somewhere. It's going to be a one and a half to one slope coming down this way to the road bed and this is not to scale or accurate but then you have the road bed and then it will be a two to one slope going back. So all of this material over here will be removed but this is still going to be, the slope is going to be remaining. That's what he means V cut as opposed to bringing across and (inaudible)... that's mainly a function of the road geometry, making sure that it has the curve radius but it was actually, and I think that was the basis for setting the right of way and the alignment when they condemned it and when it went through the proceedings to acquire the land. So that right of way is the right of way that's established and that was the bases for Kiewit and R.M. Towill bidding on the project. Those were the condtions that were set in those documents as far as contract award. Mr. Wichman: 4k the retaining wall that they were talking about in order to make the lava rock fagade would be on the upper cut side of it? Mr. Niermann: The proposal right now is to just have the cut but the retaining wall right now, so it's like this, the retaining wall you know at some point is right off the road and then relax the slope back rather than cutting it off you could do a retaining wall all the way up and preserve that May 3, 2012 K H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 3' additional space but that's what a retaining wall is there for to minimize the amount of slope cut back. Mr. Helder: Are we talking about concrete? Mr. Niermann: We are talking about concrete. The concrete would be the foundation to the base. Mr. Helder: And what over the top Mr. Niermann: The proposal at this point is just to do grading. So that's what was proposed but what he was saying is you know they may have a preference for a retaining wall to preserve the yard space but there basically to achieve the design within the right of way they are also creating the use that is going to be on the right of way to allow the cut back of that slop. So the design for the road that is shown here can be accommodated without the retaining walls going up but that's essentially if there was a wall then there would be a discussion about how it would be treated. Mr. Wichman: Ok so there is one other question. The other one this body can't really comment on the fact that he mentioned that the view plane from his driveway with 50 feet should be 150 feet, etc. This commission cannot comment on that however the engineers can look into that. Obviously it's an issue for the engineers but we don't need to get into that right now because that's not our purview. I just wanted to make that clear. I hear it. The line of site and the safety of the driver and stuff like that but I know you must be looking at that a little bit more carefully. Mr. Niermann: We will continue to follow up on that. Mr. Wichman: And then if you do any type of retaining wall whether the short one or the tall one being able to do the false lava front is an option that you would consider. Nr. Niermann: I will call upon Kyle to answer that. Mr. Johnson: Certainly I shall come forward. Mr. Helder: It's a yes or no question. Mr. Johnson: Yes. Mr. Helder: Thank you. Mr. Wichman: So that would definitely be a consideration and I think you know the height of the retaining wall, that discussion needs to take place with your engineers essentially. The other one too is that Mr. Alan mentioned the trees. Where is everyone on that discussion? Has a botanical survey been done? Are we looking at some of the really old magma trees. What variety of trees are we looking at? How many trees are going out? May 3, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 34 Mr. Niermann: We only did a flora and fauna survey for the endangered and protected species. So as far as... native essentially. We didn't do one on the aesthetic landscaping. We do have a landscape architect who is involved that is Lester Inouye. Mr. Wichman: Then definitely the landscape consideration now raises an interesting consideration because it goes beyond this body. You know there are other outfits on this island that take care of trees and you know trees can end up on registers and things like that. So it would be a consideration that you looked into that a little bit more carefully because that would be a surprise to a lot of people and I could give you certain names of people you can consult with. One would be like Marge Freeman for example. Yes have a conversation with her on the subject. She might be able to save a lot of time and money. I'm done. Chair: Do we have a motion? Do we need a motion? Mr. Helder: We can have a motion. Is the public done? Chair: Are we done public? Ms. Alan: I just have one more little question. I was told and you seem to know a lot of the history of the valley in the mid 18, late 1800s and I was told on the back side of this property right here which was where the old house that there was a cemetery down this slope. So it would have been right here and I don't know the person that told me. He just came was visiting our house so that too is what is going to be torn up. Mr. Wichman: So that needs to be determined as soon as possible. Ms. Alan: So I just want to put that out there because I know what a drag it is once you get going on something and then you find out something too late on that. Mr. Wichman: Jim has the DAG survey division data base for all the maps. I presume you went probably went through all the maps that has been drawn for the sector. Mr. Niermann: We are still doing research but we are also relying on all the historic and archeological research that was done as part of the original EA that was done on this project which was in 2000. Mr. Wichman: Have you been down been into the Historical Society because they absorbed the L -ihu'e Plantation maps. Mr. Niermann: Actually as part of this project we are doing a supplemental inventory survey and a cultural impact assessment that focus what is under the hill. That's underway now. Cultural Survey's Hawaii is conducting that. I don't know that they have been I nor not. Mr. Wichman: That I don't know. I have never actually particularly looked at this sector exactly but I think we need to go through the Kauai Historical archives and pull every single map that May 3, 2012 KAT.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 35 the plantation drew for this sector and go over one more time. If there is a cemetery it will show up on one of those maps. Mr. Niermann: We did an actually that's the first time that it's been pointed out previously I shared that information with CSH guys and Gerald will be calling tomorrow or Monday. Ms. Alan: And just how we keep in touch so we all can stay on top. How does that work cause I have never gone through. Is that you? Mir. Helder: You will be working with these guys and then when it comes up to us at the again keep an idea on the... Ms. Alan: Thank you. Mr. Helder: I would like to make a motion. I would actually like to break this out. I will make a motion on the Lihu'e Mill Bridge side of it and I think Randy has processed that so I will leave it to you to make that motion. For the L-1hu'e Mill Bridge I would like to make a motion that we accept this plans as drawn with our recommendation that proposal one be the proposal that they consider and that we would like a little bit more information on the railing without the steel top. How high it would be compared to the existing railing. That's it simple Mr. Wichman: Second. Mr. Wichman: Perhaps we can start that motion with thanking the various outfits for being here and consulting with us as we usually do. Thank you for the time and effort and we clearly see that you are trying to do your homework on this. I think at this particular point once the lower parts of the Hoomana Road it looks like you are moving forward with this project. So I would certainly like to thank you for your homework. Chair: All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote.) Mr. Helder: We need one for Hoomana Road, Ms. Aiu: May I ask one question before we have a motion. I think I heard Randy say that the new road, I was blindsided by the new but duh me I might have missed something. The new road is there because of safety issues. Am I right? Mr. Niermann: It's there for two reasons. One because the project is effectively going to cut off the access to this road so safety wise you can't find the highway to the road with this new bridge. And then... Ms. Aiu: That's it. There is no other way then. Mr. Niermann: Yes. Ms. Aiu: Ok sorry I was thinking of something else that might help. Ok I'm pau. May 3, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 36 Mr. Wichman: In terms of Hoomana Road I'd like to make the following motion that KHPRC recommends Federal Highway, Towill Corporation continue working closely with the Alans in mitigating some of the aspects that he is facing with the property which we are talking abouthte retaining wall. We were talking about considering the lava wall style instead of you know our pure rock style the false lava. That the trees in this particular area are taken into consideration and maybe included as part of the HABS aspects of it too. So when you are doing your HABS on the bridge itself which you have already agreed to those right that you include some of the trees within that NABS survey. The rest of it is obviously within the engineer's purview. The alignment with the driveway and things like that. Ms. Aiu: Would you mind instead of just the Alan maybe all residents in the district? Mr. Wickman: She is saying that you continue working closely with the Alans but that you also continue to work closely with all the residents of German Hill. Mr. Helder: And that we accept the railings in the current fashion after they have made the cut. The recommendations that they have made when they demolish the railings, they replace the railings in the existing style. Mr. Wichman: Ok that the essentially the railings that are being demolished are rebuilt in the existing style. Mr. Helder: Second. Chair: All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote.) Thank you very much. Re: Kilauea Plantation Manager's House Chair: On to the next item. Kilauea Plantation Manager's House, Mr. Gary Tobey: My name is Gary Tobey. I am with Design Concepts, a company that does architectural design work here on Kauai. I am here to represent the Kilauea Plantation manager's residence. I am doing some work on site and some other buildings and also we have a situation currently, we have got a leaking roof and also a leaking skylight. I was there in another capacity but because this was an issue and something that they were going through we had discussions about the historic value of the site itself and the buildings and decided that we needed to come down to the Planning Department and thus you folks prior to actually doing any work on this to get some recommendation and feedback. There are four different things that we would like to do to the building. One of those is reroofing with similar material to what's on the building now. Currently there are four different colors of asphalt roofing on the structure. It's been maintained by putting whatever they could find on the building but our intentions are is there are some leaks in certain locations and we'd like to take it all off and then put it back on in a consistent manner throughout the building. May 3, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 37 So that's one area that we'd like to talk to you about. Two is we would like to put seven skylights in the existing lanai area. There are currently eight skylights on the structure and we need to put some more down on the exterior lanais. Not on the buildings but on the exterior lanais and that is to get more light into the house itself. The next item is waterproofing, excuse me removing an existing porcelain tile that is on an outdoor lanai at the rear of the building. It's leaking real bad and so we would like to take that up and waterproof and put down an actual stone paving which is more appropriate for this structure. The final thing that we would like to do is there is about 50 percent of the building has gutters. The other portion of the building does not. So we would like to repair the existing gutters and extend that around the building so we can take that water and put it into a holding tank and use it again on the property. Mr. Helder: I am going to interrupt you for just a second. Is there a building permit involved in this? Mr. Hull: Yes for the roofing there is going to be a building permit as well as a zoning permit. Mr. Helder: For the reroofing? Ok and the skylight, what's covered under the building permit? Mr. Hull: The roofing. Mr. Helder: Just the roofing? Is there a building permit for all of the things that he just described? Mr. Hull: It would be covered under one permit. Mr. Helder: Under one permit. Mr. Hull: Yes. Mr. Helder: These are all things that require a building permit as opposed to maintenance? Mr. Hull: Certain types of maintenance given the size of this maintenance repair, yes it would require a building permit as well as a zoning permit. The building permit I cannot speak, I know it's going to require a zoning permit. I will have to double check on the building permit but the zoning permit is going to be required particularly given the historical nature of the structure. And speaking to the skylights the department is subject to voice reservations about the skylights at this point. Mr. Helder: And how does the zoning permit work? I don't think we have ever, have we covered one under the zoning permit here before? Mr. Wichman: The zoning permit I would assume is for the additional buildings. May 3, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 38 Mr. Hull: Well actually the.. . Mr. Helder: That's not what we are reviewing. are just addressing these four things and I am involved in this. We are not addressing additional buildings. We trying to figure out under what auspice we are Mr. Hull: Any structure or structural modification, technically, requires a zoning permit. I mean technically when you go into it a hibachi requires a zoning permit. A picnic table requires a zoning permit. So virtually anything that is built requires a zoning permit. They are class I zoning permits or over the counter zoning permits but a zoning permit nonetheless. Mr. Wickman: But today we will be able to go through essentially the four options right there which is you know we can discuss you know the roofing the tiles, the rain gutters, the porch you know the tiles on top of it, and then the skylights. Those are the four things today I think we can address. Mr. Hull: Those are the four things that are coming before you. In their application or their write up they do discuss several aspects of the project and we have spoken with them previously that those proposals will require at the bare minimum a class IV zoning permit and a use permit. They will be going before the Planning Commission in fact they will have to appear before you folks again. Mr. Wichman: Let's address immediately the four issues. Mr. Tobev: Yes I am sorry if there is any confusion on that. We submitted a site plan and also just for general purposes let you know that there are other areas of the property that will be some development on. That's part of our proposal which is part of a rezoning area and that really, I think, is separate from this. What we are really here... Mr. Wichman: Ok we are clear with that. We are good. Mr. Tobev: What we are here to talk to you about is because this is an historical building it needs to go through your recommendations or your review. That would be forwarded to the State DLNR and basically what we would like to do is get a letter with your recommendations and correct me if I am wrong but that would be forwarded to the State and they will actually act upon our proposal. Am I correct on that? Mr. Hull: DLNR, SHPD, sorry I write comments to the effect that the Planning impose when we sign off on the zoning permit. didn't make that clear in the meeting, is going to essentially Department will take into consideration and or Mr. Tobev: So these are recommendations that come back to the Planning Department. Mr. Helder: That's only on the roofing, the gutters, the skylights and the tile, May 3, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 39 Mr. Tobe: The rezoning has to do with the other buildings that are foreign. That's a whole separate thing for us. Chair: Ok so the roofing? Mr. Helder: I have one question about three of these. The tile is on the porte - cochere. Mr. Tobev: Yes. Mr. Helder: Is that original tile? Mr. Tobev: No that's a porcelain tile that was probably done 15, 16, 17 years ago and they did not do a good job waterproofing underneath it and so there is significant damage. What we are proposing to do is take that stone up, that waterproofing up and re- waterproof it and then we went to a natural stone that's very similar to what's under the porte - cochere and that's probably original. So the best that I can tell it's original and it's like a slate stone. We are trying to match that as closely with what we can find cause that used to be the main entrance of the house which is now the back. Mr. Helder: I have no problem with that. I have no problem with that even if you are replacing it with a tile. That's a maintenance issue. It's not visible to the house. It's not part of the original structure therefore it's not included really in the house being historic per say. The same thing about the roof if it's like kind of tar that's a maintenance issue too as far as I am concerned as long as the material is that it's replacing. The gutters are the same issue. Mr. Wichman: Are you using a lighter or darker tone? Mr. Helder: I don't really care because to me when you replace that in 20 years if it starts out light it will be dark but it's roofing it's not you know relative you know it's been replaced however many times since the building was built and the same thing with the gutters. The guttering system is probably not the same guttering system and that's part of taking care of Where the issue lies with this particular project is the skylights. The skylights are not part of the original design and I don't know do you have an idea when the other skylights were put in? Mr. Tobev: I haven't been able to find that out. I would say it's been at least 20, 25 years ago cause they are not acrylic they are glass and just looking at them I would say it's been at least 25 years maybe more. I think they were put in the latest large renovation that were done on the house which I believe occurred in the late 80s. Mr. Wichman: I don't remember ever having a discussion on the skylights. So it had to be in the 80s. All the preceding ones I do. Previous owners have been before this body so I am aware of the renovations. The records are in the KHPRC files, there are no discussions pertaining to that. Mr. Helder: Yes there may not be permits on them. They may have been done without them but part of the problem is when you bring those down on to the lanai you are putting them front and center and the visuals. May 3, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 40 Mr. Tobev: One thing I do want to say is we are putting them on the back lanai not on the front which is the primary. Mr. Helder: We don't normally just protect the front of the house. I just want to make that clear. Those are my points that the three issues are not issues but the skylights are an issue and how we deal with those. I really don't know it's a substantial impact on the visuals of this house. Mr. Hull: May I interject. The way the discussion was concerning the skylights. The skylights never received zoning approval nor did it come before this body. The last major reroofing occurred in 1979 as far as the overall reroofing. Al the other reroofing imagine the four different color patterns occurred in between you can imagine during the two separate hurricane events. But at some point between 1979 and today those skylights were essentially put in and technically could constitute a violation. So depending on how this body wants to go it could, check with you on this, request or advise that it be returned to the original or attempt to return to the original uniform roofing. Mr. Wichman: That would be a county planning issue that would decide not us. Mr. Helder: We could recommend that if they were put in with a permit and they are leaking already that the house be returned to its original. Mr. Tobey: Let me break in here the skylights are not leaking. It's the roof that's leaking and the outdoor lanai but I understand where you are coming from. Mr. Wichman: I think that it's on a historic house that's reasonably what you can do. If work has been altered without a permit and then that gets picked up and then that can be the recommendation. Mr. Helder: The idea of skylights and adaptive reuse yes I agree that essentially it does alter it but at the same time the skylight makes the inner sections of the building much more available. It also alters the other sections of the building which we haven't even begin to discuss. Mr. Wichman: Yes so there would be no options like say if they had eight skylights scheduled on the lower Lanai roof if they were made into four larger one that is not an option then. The idea right now that we are looking at. Mr. Helder: it's a building that is already on the register isn't it? Mr. Hull: It's not only on the Kauai Register it is on the State and National Registers. Mr. Helder: State and National so it's not one that we can really mess with. You know we can't really say you know that's nice we should... our job really is to be an historic structure for a reason. You know how severe they say that this is been deemed to are in putting things on. So my recommendation would be and that's why we are having this discussion would be to return it to its original condition that it was on the historic register. May 3, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 41 Mr. Wichman: My concern there would be that all historic buildings that have skylights this sets a precedent. It's not just your case now let's consider every single building that has skylights that may not have gotten the proper permit prior to the incorporation of this body in the 80s right. So essentially by going this particular direction we need to kind of consider the entire scope of the skylight issue on historic buildings. Mr. Helder: But what if the building went on the historic register and then somebody didn't come true for a permit because they knew that it was on the historic register and they wouldn't get a permit for the skylights. Do we then say oh after the fact if you come and if you do it and then get caught at it do you slide by. Mr. Wichman: Well it's been four owners later. Mr. Helder: At whatever point how many owners is not an issue for us. Mr. Jung: It's not a matter of sliding by. They could come in and apply for the after the fact permit for the skylights but the issue is more of what SHPD is to whether or not there is going to be an affect to an historic property and how they are going to categorize it and if there is an effect then they might have to do mitigation and what not and work through the 6E requirements. Ms. Aiu: Ok so this is what we got and right here it says that the skylights were added so at the time that they put it on the register the skylights were there unless I am reading it wrong. Mr. Wickman; I think the issue here is permitted or unpermitted. Ms. Aiu: But that's not our issue. Mr. Wickman: Yes I know. Mr, Helder: You are talking about observations? Ms. Aiu: Yes under integrity way down at the end. Chair: Way down here on this line. Mr. Helder: Oh yea that's a description for the integrity has been compromised. That's what that means. Ms. Aiu: Right so what I am saying is that it was there at the time, Mr. Helder: No it was there only at the time this resource profile was made. This has nothing to do with the historic residence. Ms. Aiu: Do you know if this was on the register at the time of the skylight. May 3, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 42 Mr. Jung: It was on the State and National Registers in '93. Mr. Hull: When it was put on the National and State Registers the skylights had already been placed on there. Ms. Aiu: So this is right the skylights had been put on there. Mr. Helder: This survey was done by the County when they were making our list. This doesn't have to do with the State Register. Ms. Aiu: He is saying that... Chair: At the time it got added to the list the skylights were already added. Mr. Wichman: Yes and it had been on the register with the skylights. Ms. Aiu: With the skylights. Mr. Wichman: So that means you know that there option at this particular point would be, which is outside this body, you need to get an after the fact permit cause I know you are the 4tb or 5t' owner of this. So I guess you know that would be an after the fact permit for those particular skylights right. One option because now I am coming down to the additional skylights you are requesting. Applicant: We can scrap that idea. The idea was to reduce the mold in the lower section of the house by bringing light in as well. Mr. Helder: Are you willing to remove that from this? Mr. Tobey: Absolutely, Mr. Helder: So we are just dealing then with the roofing, the guttering, and the tile. Those three portions. Mr. Tobey: If you have an issue with the skylights we are happy to take that out of the proposal. Mr. Helder: That's it. That's all we need. Applicant: Yes the last thing we want to do is deface the house. Mr. Wichman: Ok I think we are at a point where we are away from setting a precedent. Mr. Helder: Ok. So I would like to make a motion. Chair: Is there anyone from the audience that would like to speak? We are good. May 3, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 43 Mr. Helder: I would like to make a motion that we accept this proposal with the exception of the skylights and concur with the permit to reroof all with the same style of shingle; retile the top of the porte- cochere with stone; and add guttering to one hundred percent of the building. Chair: Can I get a second? Mr. Wichman: Second, Chair: All in favor? Mr. Hull: I would like to interject for discussion if you would consider also any action also be done with, also be contingent upon any review /recommendations by SHPD. Mr. Wichman: Oh absolutely. That's a given. Mr. Hull: I just wanted that for when we are signing off on the permit we have it in the letter. Mr. Wichman: I was considering that if we had a little bit more time we would wait for SHPD's recs and then this body would concur but because of our hard work SHPD now waits for our recommendations before they make theirs which is not quite working here. (Laughter in the background) but that's where we are. SHPD waits for us now before they make their comments. Mr. Hull: And the only reason I say that is because our permitting process, the zoning permit process is a bit more connected to you folks that it is specific to SHPD at least at the class I level. So if you guys have that in your action it ties the permit a bit more to the SHPD. Mr. Wichman: I think SHPD will probably concur with it. Mr. Helder: Yes I don't see why they wouldn't. Mr. Wichman: Yes other than the fact that you know we all live on the north. We all live with tons of mold and things like that. There must be other options for them to consider. Chair: all in favor? (Unanimous voice vote.) Alright thank you very much. SELECTION OF NEXT MEETING DATE AND AGENDA TOPICS The next KHPRC Meeting is scheduled on Thursday, June 7, 2012. ADJOURNMENT The meeting was adjourned at 5:35 p.m. May 3, 2412 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 44 Submitted, U. Jimenez Secretary Date: UN 01 2012