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HomeMy WebLinkAboutoct42012KAUAI COUNTY HISTORIC PRESERVATION REVIEW COMMISSION Lihue Civic Center, Moikeha Building, Meeting Room 2A /213 MINUTES A regular meeting of the Kauai County Historic Preservation Commission (KHPRC) was held on October 4, 2012 in the Lihue Civic Center, Moikeha Building, Meeting Room 2A/2B. The following Commissioners were present: Kuuleialoha Santos, Chairperson, Pat Griffin, Vice Chairperson, Danita Aiu, Stephen Long, Patsy Sheehan, and Randy Wichman. The following Commissioner(s) were absent: Jane Gray and David Helder. CALL TO ORDER Chairperson Santos called the meeting to order at 3:00 p.m. APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA The agenda was approved as circulated. APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES The Minutes of the August 2, 2012 meeting were approved as circulated. ANNOUNCEMENTS AND GENERAL BUSINESS MATTERS Chair: Announcements and general business matters, does anybody have anything and if so would you like to push it to the end of the meeting? Have anything? No? Fabulous moving on. "J.1.,.._Wichman: One general announcement. There is a fish pond coni:erence in. Waii)a o>> No- vernber 2, 3, and 41 Ms. Griffin: Thank you. Mr. Wichman: You got the notice for that? Mr. Hironalca: No. Mr. Wichman: Look it up. October 4. 2012 K.I-I.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 2 COMMUNICATIONS Re: Letter (9129/12) from Ron Agor, Architect, Agor Architecture, LLC requesting a courtesy presentation of the reconstruction plans of the Hanalei Pier Pavilion to the Kauai Historic Preservation Review Commission. Chair: Letter 9/29/12 from Ron Agor, Architect, Agor Architectures, L.LC requesting a courtesy presentation of the reconstruction plans of the Hanalei Pier Pavillion to the Kauai Historic Preservation Commission, Mr. Ron Agor: Good afternoon commissioners for the record my name is Ron Agor for this project I am volunteer architect. The pier is in a condition where it has got to be taken down because it is really not safe. One can lean on the pier and literally move it. We have been delaying taking it down because the Rotary Club and a group of community members have said that State you don't have to wait for funding, like two years, to rebuild this. We raised the funds and we are ready to rebuild immediately. Ok so I have got that all coordinated and the State is in the process of selecting the contractor to do the demo and the reason I wanted to do this courtesy presentation was that the State is going to do it. They are going to demolish the structure and for sure you guys are going to get called so I just wanted you to get up to date with what really is happening and we are going to be rebuilding it pretty much the same as it was rebuilt after Iwa. The only changes that we are going to back to a corrugated iron roof instead of what it was before Iwa. So we are really anxious to get started. The volunteers are just ready to go and again this is rt good example of the community stepping up and not waiting for state funding to rchuilcl fair re�iources and taking it to their. own (inaudible). I just wanted to make sure you buys had (r] licatls LIP on it so that if you get called you know what's going on. That's all. Chair: Alright any questions? Comments? Mr. Wichman: I do remember in the 1980s when the refurbished and redid the whole thing back at that point. I think it's a really good idea that you are going back. Mr. Agor: Yes they almost disregarded that. Mr. Wichman: Yes at that particular point but I think the footprint is true to the original right there. The aspects of the present structure the roof right there, there is no adaptive reuses with that. Yes there is, in that terms, the demolition is fine. The only one at this particular point is the HABS requirements for this. Ms. Griffin: It's always helpful to take photos before, during, and after so they can be archived. I am wondering about this... Mr. Ate: We are. October 4, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 3 Ms. Griffin: Excellent. I am wondering about the Section 102 process. Have you all been going through that? Mr. Ago r: Yes SHPD, we mentioned it to SHPD and as you know and I know they are in disarray. They can't get to it. In fact they probably won't be able to respond to it until next year but we did get a verbal. Ms. Griffin: 106 is Federal, the National Historic Preservation Act that requires with historic structures to have a public input and advisory process and I haven't heard anything about it so I was just wondering where you were on that. Mr. Wichman: Is there Federal funds for this? No there is no Federal fiends so there is no 106. Ms. Griffin: Oh ok. 11Tor: Yes this is just volunteer money and Joe Borden is here and they are in the process [)I doing this and I thought it would be a good idea as a courtesy to bring it to you. Ms. Griffin: Sure ok so that's good to know that there aren't an y Federal funds but there will I)e State activity. Mr. Wichman: I also know that we have been having community meetings on this and this is not news, it's been in the works for two years now when they originally came in to do the preliminary research. So good I am glad to see you at this point. I have no further questions. Chair: Any more questions? Does anybody have any comments in our little audience back there? Mr. Mike Gushard: I am from SHPD. If you guys send us information on it our turn around time is much faster. I promise we can get that back to you. In the above grounds section we have been about a week or two turn around. Mr. Ago: Thank you.. UNIFINISHED BUSINESS Re: Letter (6/19/12) from Barbara Shidelet, AIA, Mason Architects, Inc. requesting input on the Pre -final Design Guidelines for the Historic Kokee, Halemanu and Puu ka Pele Camp Lots (Kokee and Waimea Canyon Recreation Residences Historic District) = State of Hawaii, Division of State Parks. Chair: Moving back letter 6/19/12 from Barbara Shideler, AIA, Mason Architects requesting input on the pre -final design guidelines for the historic Kokee, Halemanu... Sorry come on down. October 4. 2012 K.I-I.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 4 Ms. Holly MacEldowna: Holly MacEldowney I am the archeologist with State Parks and I am here to talk about the architectural design. It's a follow up on our August 2 "a meeting and discussions we had there. You requested that you hear from the Kokee State Advisory Council and I am very happy to tell you that we have two members the Chair and the Vice Chair here. We had two meetings. We have discussed the guidelines at both meetings. We had some good comments and we will try to accommodate as best as we can. I am not quite stare whltt yt)1.1 ox pect of this discussion but I can introduce you to the Chair and Vice Chair if they can come L11). Mr. Wichman: If I may. We left our last discussion essentially where we needed to consult witli the Kokee Council in regards to and we have both the President and Vice President. Ms. MacEldowney: The President is Mary Buza -Sims and the Vice Chair is Wayne Souza. So if you want them to come up. Mr. Wichman: So essentially from my understanding the discussion is, where it is now is that this commission is more than happy to accept the kuleana of the review guidelines for Kokee until such time as the Kokee Council wishes to take over those responsibilities at this particular point unless the Kokee Council is prepared to take on the review process this commission can do it in the mean time. Chair: I thought it was going to be a partnership. Mr. Wichman: Ok then tell me where you guys want to go with this. Ms. Aiu: Excuse Madame Chair. Thank you for being here. It was my understanding, and it is also my feeling, that we were going to do this in concert. I don't think we were ever giving our right to the design review and I think we want to have something to say too. Chair: That was my understanding as well. Ms Mary Jean Buza -Sims: Hi my name is Mary Jean Buza -Sims. I have just been to two meetings on the Kokee Advisory Council. So minds around working the council at this point. One of the meetings presentation to the group and we didn't have a lot of time to revieN prepared but the committee as a whole I think are in unison in terms the work of the historic commission. am chair (inaudible). We we are trying to wrap our Barbara came and made a the documents that were of irI theory of supporting There were questions that were presented at the last meeting and one of the biggest things is any time you put a document together and you want to enforce it the question becomes enforcement and the budget to that. I think that's where our questions came from and there were specific details in the document but in theory we got this thing but in this point we are not prepared to take over the task or fully give you a full assessment of our where you feel we can make a contribution because we are working at our own five year draft by Kokee Parks. So that is a big task itself and although we want to contribute here at this point. oclober 4,2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Palo 5 Mr. Wayne Souza: Wayne Souza, Vice Chair of the Kokee State Park Advisory Council. We never had any intention of overseeing the review itself. We are just making comments. Chair: I was under the impression that you guys will make the first /initial comments and then it would come to us. Mr. Wichman: Right now what I said at the beginning this commission will accept the review responsibility for all appending projects that come before Kokee. I think we are good with that and we are all clear that at this particular point has all the expertise right now in order to review those applications. When those come up and we are reviewing them they maybe, I don't know when the next one is going to be. If one of the representatives could be here when we are there, you are welcome to have an advisory capacity when these things come up. Ms. State Parks can Buza -Sims: You are saying when there is an actual review a person who has a cabin up there and want to do some changes then they will come to you. You oversee that review part. Mr. Wichman: Yes we will make the recommendation. Chair: I have a question. Myles, that's State right? So that really wouldn't come to us would it? Mr. Hironaka Well it's in the conservation, excuse me, it's in the conservation district Commissioner so there is no real permit that is reviewed by the Planning Department. I am not sure if they will be getting a building permit from the County for any type of improvements. That's may be the case. Ms. MacEldowney: State Parks can request that we go through the building and we will request for them. We have those three levels of potential repairs or actions to the cabins. Chair: And then Myles was going to research how we would be notified of the changes that were going to be, not Myles I am sorry Ian. Yes Ian was going to research how that was going to work. Ms. MacEldowney: We still have to talk to the County more on how the flow would occur. Mr. Hironaka: Excuse me but I thought the task, the foremost task at hand was to review the design guidelines that the State has brought forward and to get your comments and input on the design guidelines as the primary focus. The permitting side because something that I am not sure if there is a mechanism that would make that work. Ms. MacEldowney: But part of the design, the proposed review process is to include them when there are major reviews and we would like outside expertise to help judge if this is appropriate or is not appropriate. So anything that would reqwre, this may be a little simplistic cause a lot of the things are grey lines. So anything that requires like a major building permit or some kind of State October 4, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meetnig Minutes Page 6 permit we were going to ask that it come to the KHPRC. So that's one (inaudible) in a similar way that things already come to you. Is it through the Building Department? Mr. Hironaka: Well there are two different. I think we need to work something out with the State. Chair: And that's what Ian was going to, we talked about it last time and then we wanted your input on the guidelines before we could comment, we wanted to hear what you guys said about all the guidelines that were presented. That and then we wanted Ian to research how we would help and be involved. Ms. MacEldowney: We are still working on that. Chair: Yes so I think those are the two issues before we can comment or say anything that is what we need from you guys. Mr. Hironaka: That's my understanding is looking at the guidelines for now. Ms. Sheehan: Are you fully membered in your council so that you have everyone. You obviously didn't have a meeting over the guidelines with the bigger group or have you? Ms. Buza -Sims: We don't have a full membership at this point but there is enough for a quorum but we don't have membership and those who were at the meeting I think we had quorum at the meeting where we discussed and gave input to the guidelines that was presented at that time are you looking for something in writing or just presentation? Chair: We would like to see what your comments were. We would like to see your feedback and all that kind of stuff. Ms. MacEldowney: I have a list. They did make a motion to recommend approval in concept. Mr. Souza: As far as the design guidelines in concept. Mr. Wichman: I think at this point I am comfortable that the review design guidelines is a good document in which we can begin to work from. Ultimately in the end of course there are other factors that may be brought in that would question certain of the language in the document but I think we can deal with it at this particular time. In no way are we committed to every single word of it but the intent of the design guideline is all there. There is really, really good caveats and good procedurals as you broke it up into the three different permitting categories. Obviously, the intensity of whatever it is that is going on. I think we have a good working document right now. I am very comfortable in assuming any kind of support role in the review process. Ms. MacEldowney: There were some other comments about invasive species that mesh nicely with Pat's comments because Katie Kassel is on the Council too and we thought maybe it really wouldn't be an official part of the design guidelines but we would have a separate booklet that October 4. 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 7 have pictures of the invasive species for the lessees. We have a list of things but they may not know what they are. So if we have some pictures and as you said it is really important to point out not just what the shouldn't plant but what they should try to take away. They asked for more maps so we will include more tax map keys and I have some of the historic maps too, scanned versions of the historic maps that show the pastures and the camp lots. So we will include those too. Enforcement yes that's an issue we have and they would also like the guidelines to look more accessible because it is a technical document and I realize ariybody picking it up might be a little overwhelmed. Mr. Wichman: And you are working on those details within the master plans and you are defining each one of those categories. I don't know how comfortable this Commission would be in reviewing the invasive species. I am not sure that, that would be in our purview. Ms. MacEldownev: That came up because we are looking at the cultural landscape as well for each of the cabins. So we trying to maintain species that have been there for years that's fine. Ms. Sheehan: Do you have something in there about enforcement? Was there nothing? Ms. MacEldownev: No. Ms. Sheehan: So are you going to try to put something in there? Ms. MacEldownev: We have an enforcement problem that goes beyond these guidelines. So we are trying to work on enforcement as best as we can but I think when we began to discuss this with them enforcement is hard if you don't have foundation documents. Nothing to go back to you and say you had an opportunity you could have read this. This is what you were supposed to do. So hopefully it would contribute to better enforcement in the long term. Ms. Amy Esaki: Will the State include that guideline in their lease? Ms. MacEldownev: It is in the State in draft form. Ms. Amy Esaki: It is so the State would have the authority to enforce it. Ms. MacEldownev: It's a lot of judgment calls too. Ms. Wichman: Their architecture branch will review these permits. They would have a letter of finding which we usually would review, either concur or non - concur and then either add further recommendations at that point or not. But we will treat it like anything else except that we have separate guidelines for Kokee. !1, MacEldownev: So were we are going from here I think is what we discussed before oI4tt IS once we finished this process and we work out whatever we have to do with the County anti State Historic Preservation Division has to approve it as well. It will still be in drall form .Intl October 4; 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 8 then we hope to meet with all the lessees and the public and the public to see what comments they have and then after that we would finalize and it has to be approved by the State Historic Preservation Division. Also the Land Board because it is in a lease. So Land Board has to codify that. Currently there is reference to a draft guidelines that will be finalized. So it's the next steps after this. Ms. Buza -Sims: I think I would like to interject at this point that this document is quite overwhelming if you see it and to say the least and it should be lessee friendly so when a lessee gets the piece of document that concerns their part in terms of remodeling or fixing or changing things and it's part of a document that they understand that the language is clear and not so much (inaudible) included so that they know. You know my comment at first was if I was a local person and I saw this document I would say what am I going to do with this? It's too complicated. I not going to follow this. And that's not the intent, the intent is to preserve and if you don't get people on your side to preserve because you are giving them a document that is so complicated they are not going to abide by the rules of regulation. I think we have to think also as a lessee and see how we are going to make friendly so they cooperate with what needs to be done. Mr. Wichman: That was my first initial reaction to the document after I that it did restrict the lessee. They have very little maneuvering room in and things. It got down into way more level of detail than I think is reall thought that the discussion in the Kokee vernacular which is essentially the Kokee vernacular up there. A g�)od example is that small little house park. Mr. Souza: The old park headquarters, read it a few times was the nature of the lunges y appropriate and then I the intent is to preserve as you go into the main Mr. Wichman: Your headquarters right there is a classic example of Kokee vernacular and I think that once our local lessees kind of understand that the general look and the feel of it is within that particular style. We are good and I think generally speaking most people will be good within the Kokee vernacular. I think we will have really big issues and it's already within the design guidelines in order to avoid some sort of palace up there or you know 4hose kinds of things but I am not sure how the other commissioners feel about reviewing Kol<ee. Ms. M:acEldowney; Well I am hoping that once it starts to implemented that we have a good back and forth with people. They will call to ask and then we can say go look on page whatever and go find those materials and then maybe Historic Preservation will help and say ok there is �i comparable material you can use if you can't find that. So hopefully there will be some of that personal back and forth. Mr. Wichman: Always remembering that what we do for one person is for everyone. That there is no arbitrary bits in the way we deal with individuals. That's very important to this commission is that if we do this to one person, we do it to everybody. So we have to be really careful when we get to that point. But I think if, it carne into this council, commission we would have the flexibility in order to discuss whatever carne out that is questionable. October 4, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 9 Chair: Does anybody have any comments? Ms. Aiu: Well first of all I want to thank you for giving us this opportunity. I have been involved in trying to review Act 55 so I am really happy to see that you have come before us and I certainly do not want to give up any opportunity to review any historical document. Thank you so much. I look at it like you and its very detailed. They put so much detail into this. I mean down to the door knobs and the only reason that I did comprehend some of this is because I am familiar with Randy's house and then my grandma doesn't have a house there but she had an old house with all these door knobs and stuff. So it's like you cannot miss though you know what I mean, even though it's plenty you have to say I'm going to change this door knob and then you go to the section on door knobs and they tell you exactly what's there and then you. try to find it, etc. But what a document I am telling you. Thank you very much. I am going to be comfortable in making a motion to. I like what you guys did in concept but I hope I will get some backing here in making a motion to accept the concept. I just want to make one more comment about indigenous plants cause I wear that hat too. I love indigenous plants but there is kind of an indigenous plants Kokee only. You know what I mean like plums they gotta be there. Snow balls they gotta be there. There are certain plants when you go there that says Kokee at least to me I don't know how everybody else feels about it and maybe that's only around the cabins or whatever. Sol hope I can get the Commission to agree. 1. am going to move that we accept the cloctin1011tF$ in concept and with the caveat that we look forward to getting further comments lrom yrtur committee. I certainly would not go against Mr. Souza who is mister knows all of Kokee and work I have always admired. You don't know but many times I have called, when I used to work: for the Mayor, about those things. So thank you. So there the motion is out on the table. Ms. Griffin: So it's been moved that the KHPRC accepts the document in concept and we will wait to get the final document with any comments from the advisory committee. Is there a second? Mr. Wichman: Second. Ms. Griffin: Thank you. Is there further discussion? I have a related question on this and that is the time frame for getting the final design guidelines. Ms. MacEldowney: It depends on how long it takes to have discussions with the County. I have to talk with our AGs. Ian suggested that and it's really Barbara Shideler that has to discuss with the County cause I don't really understand the County building code process and then with historic preservation and then we have to have that larger meeting which all of you are welcome to come to with the lessees. Three months would be wonderful. I would like it to be wonderful but three months would be nice. October 4, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 10 Ms. Griffin: Thank you. It's been moved and seconded. There has been discussion. Further discussion on the motion to accept in concept? Ms. Sheehan: I raise my hand in yes. Ms. Griffin: Didn't you declare a conflict of interest Patsy? Ms. Sheehan: Yes. Ms. Griffin: Do we have public input. Mr. Mike Gushard: SHPD is waiting for this process before we can kind of solidify and then we will comment on that. iVls_Grlffin: Ok and I will turn the gavel back to our Chair. Ms. Santos: Sorry I am having issues at work. My work was calling like 10 times. Sorry. At] in favor? (Unanimous voice vote.) Opposed? (None.) Al right thank you very much. Thank you fbr coming we appreciate it. Re: Certified Local Government (CLG) Grant Update Re: Presentation by Mike Gushard, Architectural Historian /CLG Program Coordinator, State Historic Preservation Division. Note: Vice Chair Griffin chaired this portion of the meeting. Ms Griffin: This is Mike Gushard the architectural historian for the CLG program with the State Historic Preservation Division and on behalf of all of the KHPRC I formerly want to welcome you here and tell you I hope that you come many times to share information with us and get conversation back. Mr. Mike Gushard: I am always glad to be here. This is my favorite place to be. It's my favorite island. And I know you guys have verbatim minutes so I don't mind saying that. (Laughter in background). I say that everywhere I go so. Shall I do sort of brief overview of What the CLG program? Mr. Wichman: Get right to it. Mr. Gushard: Ok I never wanna just start. Ms. Griffin: Please go ahead and do it because we can't always assume that every definition we agree on. October 4, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 11 Mr. Gushard: So the basis of the Certified Local Government Program is that it is a partnership between the National Park Service, SHPOs, SHPDs, and local governments and the aim is to Institutionalize historic preservation in local communities. And the way that it does that iN through ordinance and commissions like yourselves and the kind of benefit to thtlt is there is it grant available every year and that's I think mostly what I talked about. Mr. Wichman: And your latest correspondence out SHPD states that because from the very beginning Kauai and Maui were the only two commissions that have been active here in Hawai i for the last 20 years and that no other commissions at this particular point in time is scheduled and slated to come online. That SHPD has returned to the old Maui you take for this year. Kauai we take it here. That's in writing in your latest. Mr. Gushard: Was that signed by the Administratot? Mr. Wichman: Yes. Mr. Gushard: Ok I see. Mr. Wichman: So just to know where the latest correspondence from SHPD states that we are going back to what did before between Maui and so this competition process is not applicable for us here in Hawaii now. Ms. Gushard: I didn't actually know that we had already delivered you guys the letter saying. We had a discussion about it. Mr. Wichman: It was one of the preliminary findings to Larry Oak's recommendations. Ms. Griffin: Myles did we, all get a copy of that? Mr. Hironaka: No I didn't. Ms. Sheehan: Did you get one Randy? Mr. Wichman: I read a lot. (Laughter in background). Mr. Gushard: Like I said we did have, to the limit of my knowledge, we had a conversation. about it how we can make this program work here and the fact that the competitiveness is just not going to work here. Mr. Wichman: So in that we are returning to what we have had all these years we are good to go. We are back to where we were before and business as usual essentially when it comes down to that. There is not a competition process between us. We share with everybody. Ms. Griffin: Did you have more to your presentation? Odober 4, 2012 KA.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 12 Mr. Gushard: I had a little more to my presentation. It was actually kind of a small, little additive thing. I can't, because I trust that you received a letter, I can't go on record as saying that we are going to the back and forth just because I have Maui to worry about. I haven't had a discussion with Maui about the back and forth but something has to change. It can't be the competitive way. Previously, the last time that I was here it seemed eminent that Big Island was going to come into the program and there has been a reversal there unfortunately. Mr. Wichman: And Oahu once and a while does and doesn't. Mr. Gushard.: Every time I talk about bringing Oahu in everyone just gets... Ms. Griffin: So it kooks like for the foreseeable future there may only be two CLGs in Hawaii. Mr. Sheehan: Gushard: bit more about the old days? I mean do we, is it our year? Right. Which I would say that's 50 percent of our local governments say that, that's probably better than any other states. (Inaudible). Ms. Sheehan: Can you explain a little bit more about the old days? I mean do we, is it our year? been cancelled but this is We put in for money and this is Kauai's year. Mir. Gushard: You put in for money in 2012. Maui actually had a project. That project has since been cancelled but this is your year. Ms. Sheehan: And that only goes until 2013. Mr. Gushard: To the end of fiscal year 2013 so the end of September 2013 so roughly a year to put together a contraction and hire someone and get the projects done. Ms. Sheehan: I think six months ago we were saying that we were trying to figure out a way that we could do it over a two year period so that we wouldn't get caught short. Ms. Gushard: The grant it's unfortunately it's ag0ther reason. it worked super well in Hawai'i is the grant goes over two years. The process of getting the financials in order to start the project takes longer here than in other places so that eliminates a year out of your grant essentially. That's another thing within SHPD now that we have a little more staff we have been trying to figure out how we can take care of that so that whenever we start a two year grant in Hawai'i somewhere within a matter of months we are able to start the project and that will give the CLGs more time to get the projects on. Ms. Sheehan: Have you figured that ottt? Mr. Gushard: We haven't figured that out It's a complicated process with lots of moving pieces so we just entered having discussions about that. We just finished our corrective action program which had been taking a lot of our attention because we would've lost our Federal funding had we not passed the cap. So it was kind of a priority so now that, that is being put to bed we can October 4, 2012 K_HRR.C. Meeting Minutes Page 13 figure out how we could fix what we have and then get it working better especially with the new staff that we have. Ms. Sheehan: Sorry, it's like real basic. So if we have $47,000 as I understand fiom 2012 to 2013 by September we are supposed to be finished with this project. If it's not a competitive thing does Maui get the money from 2013 to 2014 and then we don't get it again? Mr. G- ushard: I wasn't made, unfortunately, aware that, that's what we were going to do. I would, before about five minutes ago I would have welcomed you to put together an application for 2013. But I am going to have to look into what... I am low man on the totem pole so... Ms. Sheehan: We have been talking about trying to do a project you know with $47,000 and maybe not starting till February and having to end in September and then maybe only getting a very small scope of that bigger inventory project done and I guys I am asking whether we have to wait a year. I mean is that the decided? Do we have to wait a year to get the money again. Mr. Gushard: I don't know that. To the limit of my knowledge when I sat down in this chair no but since I sat down in this chair new information has been introduced to me. So I apologize that I am not giving you know really precise answers. Ms. Griffin: But Mike realistically for us to function legally as a Certified Local Government Kauai has to perform certain duties and one is to have a commission. Another one is to keep an inventory. So I guess I would like to expand on Patsy's question are there, is the State Historic Preservation Division in a position to help Kauai County find supplemental grants or resources beyond this one avenue to go further with our inventory because we need to get one done. Mr. Gushard: Right now we have new staff coming on all the time. Right now I think we are hitting the limits of our abilities and once we get more people within the next year on I think trying to help the Commission try to find grants would be something that we might be able to do. I was telling Holly I am the CLG person. I am the tax person. I am one of the 106 people. I deal with 6E too. I sometimes feel guilty because I have responsibilities to the commissions to be of assistance to you all and I sometimes feel like I don't have enough, there is not enough Mike to be as much of assistance as I would like. So my answer would be you know that is something that we definitely would like to do and I can't right now pfomise that, that is something we can do. Ms. Griffin: What states are you looking to/at for models of efficiency? Mr. Gushard: We are so unique and it is difficult for me to describe our situation to other CLG coordinators. I was just in Virginia at a conference and they had half of the CLG coordinates, a little more than half and few of the coordinators who have been doing it for some time and Megan Bran NPS's head of all of the CLGs and they sat me down and they were going to fix all of our problems and so then I explained the situation and only having the two our maximum (inaudible) incredibly unlikely and they kind of backed down and thought I don't know quite how that would work. The big solution for the problem from their point of view was expansion. I October 4, 2012 K.11.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 14 was telling them don't focus on big cities, look for small towns. I kept saying we don't have towns that are independent as a government so we can't do that. So I think the closes approximation we would have is Alaska. They have a functioning program but they have 16 CLGs. Ms. Griffin: I guess what I was asking was in response to your comment about how extraordinarily long it takes to get the budge through. Ohio has 41 and there still some kind of way because it takes kind of long to go through the County too and I know that it is in our best interest and the best interest of the State Historic Preservation Division for us to do a really fabulous job of this inventory but when the actual work get's compressed into an unrealistic time period because the State bureaucracy and the County bureaucracy have need that much work time than things are kind of turned on their heads. So that's really if you all bad indentified some model for getting things through more efficiently.. Mr. Gushard: We don't have a model based on another state. We have a theoretical idea of what we want which is where we could encumber the money ahead of time to move the process forward with the County faster because we don't find out about the Federal appropriation for what the money is until way after we should be finding out. So it makes it difficult for us to take on that amount. So what we will do is guess hopefully starting in 2014 what our appropriates would be, encumber that money so that the when the counties apply and are approved on their projects they can get it a lot faster. Mr. Hironaka: And just of the Commission's information Mike and I even looked at Qeeing if we can use the CLG funding to hire someone to work in the department to do the inventory. I think he found that the National Park Service said that, that is not something we can do. So we tried to look at other ways of doing the project and unfortunately it came back to the conventional way of hiring a consultant. Mr. Wichman: That issue was explored over and over but even years ago to it was always an intention that the County hire an historic preservation division. There has always been budget requirements, that discussion has always been out there. Ms. Santos: I thought Mike (Dahilig) got that approved on this last budget from the County Council that Mike put in right? Ms. Griffin: For a preservation planner? That is something in November we should talk about. Mr_Wicbman: We can try again next year. Mr,,,..[ fironaka: I was saying we were just looking at a way that we could use the funding; tliol � like firing a person I think we can get more product for that money and perhaps in a faster i.iilie too. Those are the parameters that we have to work with. Ms. Sheehan: Mike is there any information that you could go back and get back to us in a timely fashion about, I guess we were thinking grants to maybe tie us over but if that's not something October 4, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 15 you can help us with right away just what is the process, I guess for my education, if we get $47,000 that ends in 2013 then what? We are this far into the inventory do we ask you right again or do we start now to ask for more money but we really are not going to get that money because it's going to Maui. Could you fill us in that kind of stuff. Mr. Gushard: Ok and I apologize but I keep making this clarification but just because I was not made privy to everything that is going on so I can't guaranty that the money is going to go to Maui. So you know there is maybe a sliver of possibility that you can apply for more money next year. Chair: Why can't we just plan on applying? Why don't we just... Ms. Sheehan: I was just asking wherever he needs to go to maybe research that for us and let us know and if we can we should. Ms. Santos: I think we should either way. Ms. Sheehan: Well it's time and effort. If the next group of money is definitely going to Maui we know that then we can time ourselves better because this is very short. Mr. Gushard: the original, when I commission had decided that the discussions back then about it. It be phased and not everything will get done in some years. was here back in march, it's been too long you know the County wide survey was the way to go and I remember :trig a phased process so you know it's not too terrible that its done. I do know that it's compressed and it was going to be Ms. Sheehan: I think we were talking earlier and we actually hire someone and we have about six months to work and we could just incrementally keep that person and can get educated and trained and then only six months it could be really good if that person could cotltinue. I fl }ink thaVs just timing that we need. We might not know that Maui needs X ainowit of dollars belortt -you. ki1ow that. Mr. Gushard: At this juncture Maui is not approaching us specifically about any projects or anything. Mr. Wichman: Ii 's important to keep in mind that this County has not received any funds since Melanie Chinen. Mr. Gushard: Yes it's been a while. Mr. Wiclunan: Do you know how many years that is? Mr. Gushard: 2008 was the last time you govt $1,800. Ms. Santos: Wow that's some big bucks right there. (Laughter in the background). October 4, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 16 Mr. Wichman: And then you look at the 20 years before that. I think it's clear that the County of Kauai has been committed to this commission since the beginning footing the bill all the way through. It has been very careful in the way we do our verbatim minutes and things like that and has definitely accepted the responsibility of a CLG yet brought it into their own house, in to their own budgets and I just wanted to make that clear. We have not received any funding since Melanie Chmen but we know Maui has. Ms. Santos: Before we continue I have to apologize I have to leave cause I am having issues at work. Thank you for coming. Sorry you guys for all of my interruptions today, very, very sorry. Ms. Griffin: From your admittedly relatively new position do you have comments about how you see us working or Maui working and how we can be more CLG excellent? Mr. Gushard: CLG excellent pertaining to the use of the grant or... Ms. Griffin: No, no operations. I now around there some places have regulatory commissions. Some are advisory like ours. You know just in the world of CLG how do you see a model CLG working? M! ushard: You know it's been, I think and in the year that I have been here it's becii tnteresting to see how especially how especially one of the things of I want to talk about and kind of discuss it formerly with you is in most places in the Continental United States the ST-1110 doesn't deal with local issues unless there is federal (inaudible) they manage the 106 process. The do surveys. When it comes to particularly private property they have little to no involvement and that was the purpose of the CLGs to create same entity that would monitor development and use of historic resources on the local level. We have Chapter 63, 10, and 42 and so we have this kind of unusual relationships with our CLGs where we kind of do a redundant set up jobs where we both comment on. One of the things that I wanted to talk about while I was here is about what that process looks like on your side. What exactly you are reviewing so that I can figure out how we can dovetail our efforts and make the review process pertaining to 6E and even National Register nominations, that's something you folks should be commenting on. I don't know if you guys are commenting on that and 106 process. I don't have any goal standards or anything that have been applied to us because we have that kind of unusual situation. I have been, the last week or so, looking for other States that have something approaching 6E that kinds of expands this. Mr. Wichman: Arid also to keep in mind the tribal historic preservation which is probably a closer model of what needs to studied. Mr. Gushard: Some of the THPOs actually have CLGs within them. October 4, 2012 KAT R.C. Meeting Mnsutes Page 17 Mr. Wicliman: Oh yes there are certain individuals within the tribal historic preservation division that are very good and like I recommended to Larry Oaks take a good look at Alan Downer in Arizona. That's a model that, that can be compared with it and added to the Hawaii equation. Ms. Griffin: In you discussion the duplication with SHPD and KHPRC both commenting on building b on Main Street, that seems to be shifting a little. The model previously was we wait for SHPD to comment and then we respond but that State response trumped our response. It sounds like over the last year or so that shifted a little bit. Can you talk at all about that and what expectations are form the State stand point? lGushard: And you know, that is largely a product of Angie and I brought froiu tllt, Continental U.S. and understanding the way CLGs work in that environment and thinking well we have local CLG that know everything that's going on and we have slightly more authority than they do it's not right for us to kind of shadow the recommendations ol'people on the ground and knowing that the CLGs are goal standard of local preservation we'd like to kind of create a process and I think it will take a while where the Commission will comment on something. We will find out about it through some kind of system and that would influence our 6E comment. Then like I said that as one thing that I would like to talk about today whether it's a certificate of appropriateness. I don't know if that is something that you have done in the past or some other form that says that this is official what the Commission finds here you go SHPD and we would take that (inaudible). Ms. Griffin: If that is going to be the case what kinds of training for local CLG commissioners is the State planning to commit to? Mr. Gushard: Well you are going down my list of things to talk about. That was actually something that I will throw back at you. I may have a little bit of a budget to do trainings and that was something I wanted to talk to you about specifically if there are things you feel you need training in that I can kind of direct you too. I know that the National Alliance of Historic Preservation Commission has their speaker bureau. We can have someone come out and speak to a specific topic but I wouldn't want to dictate to you what you need. You know what you would like. So are there specific topics that you think, that conversation doesn't have to be at this meeting. Mr. Wichman: There will always need the prerequisites because over the years we have new commissioners that come on board that haven't had the luxury that we had umpteen years ago in going to Honolulu and receiving it and going to all the workshops. We had a chance to be a part of that and go through. However, I think as new commissioners come on board it kind of needs to be a mandatory thing for new commissioners to go through this basic level training you know Department of Interior Standards, 106E,, all of that just to get the familiarity of the language itself. Mr. Gushard: There are two things one the $47,000 project budget and I believe $3,000 training budget I was going to ask if you established what that training was going to be. October 4. 20121 K.II.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 18 M 1 J.Iironaka: Not yet. Mr. Wickman: Yes so the next 106 training off you go. And then the next Chapter 6E review or whatever it is you know those kinds of things. Most of those happens on 0' ahu and so we alw«y,s have commissioners that need the review or get introduced to that subject. Mr. Gushard: And then the second thing is I have been in kind of the preliminary stages of planning for sometime in fiscal year 2013 to have kind of a community training session about the basics of preservation and the commissioners would obviously be invited to that but anyone would be invited. You know they could learn about 106 and the register and the commission. So I mean that is no necessary training that is specially geared toward the commission but kind of a more general training. Ms. Griffin: There is an ongoing need as Randy said you know we have three year appointments. We can get appointments. We can get reappointed for another three years and come on after a year so there is this revolving door even with commissioners who have been for quite a long time it's always worth getting trained, retrained on how to approach the question that building b on Main Street you know they want to put up an addition and how do we judge that. Wliat are the character defining features that wd all you know how do we approach what changes are copasetic with the historic structure and what are not approved and I think how do you keep personal taste out of it in fulfilling the Secretary Standards and that seems more cut and dry than it actually ever is and I think that there is often insecurity about how to judge these projects that come up before the commission. So I think that real basic nitty- gritty is always worth going through and re -upping on. Mr. Wichman: Your architectural branch chief. Mr. Gushard: Angie Westfall. Mr. Wiclunan: It would be nice if she would put on a little day seminar of which our commission and Maui comes together with the architectural branch chief and have us a day. I think we can all benefit from that. I think we could use that. Now we can discuss other things but I think at that point you know let us just begin with the architecture branch chief doing a one day seminar. That. way we can get to know the person essentially who signs (inaudible). As a CLG commissioners we can enter into a different relationship with this branch chief. Ms. Griffin: Myles? Patsy? Ms. Sheehan: I would like some training in understanding the whole process that comes out of getting CLG funds just you know what the federal fiscal year is and how we can be on top of that you know and maybe that is in conjunction with County because the County has to do certain things like go out for a consultant. I mean just a timeline so that we are excited to get the money and then we realize that we have a minute and a half to spend it. I think if we are aware of that we talk about it a lot be we haven't really nailed down our priorities and writing job description based on how much time we have and I don't know if that can be done. October 4, 2012 K.HRR.C. Meeting Minutes Page 19 Mr. Gushard: I will make it a priority when I get back to work on getting a timeline to you about how that all works. I apologize when I came here the first time I didn't realize the process was so onerous. I khew what the CLG program as. I knew the kind of 30,000 foot level on how it was supposed to work. I was stoked when I sat down and thought A they want to do a project. We are going to give them 50 grand for the project and then there was delay after delay. I was getting anxious about what was going on and it was a steep learning curve for me about how that process worked. Ms. Sheehan: We might need a few hundred thousands of dollars if it can be institutionalized to some degree and then some of p.s rotate off at least the next person that comes along we as a commission can keep the momentum going. Mr. Gushard: I will create a timeline of how it works now and then I will work with Randolph who deals with the money part section of the CLG program at SHPD to create a timeline on how we are hoping to make it work starting in 2014. Fiscal year starts in October. Ms. Griffin: That would be great and perhaps that could be a part of the day training that would include the more basic thing. Is, given the national environment, is there any indication that this program may lose its funding federally? Mr. Gushard: SHPD or CLG? Ms. Griffin: CLG, Ms. Gushard: There is always discussions about it happening but there is no specific threat to the Certified Local Government Program and discussion with people at NPS you know there is always rumblings of this happening or that happening but as far as I know there is no specific attempt to that section of the budget. I think they realize, they are conning to a point where they realize that it maybe some things need to be change about how the program works because we have our different loyalties which are very unique to Hawai'i but all of the facility coordinators that I interact with it didn't seem to quite work the way it's supposed to anyway. It's a fairly old program. The program is older than I am. Mr. Wichman: (Inaudible) the monies you receive yearly from the feds. So essentially that number goes up and down every year. Ten percent of the federal budget at the State Historic Preservation is received from the feds. That's what constitutes CLG is that ten percent. Ms. Griffin: Myles I think you had a question. Mr. Hironaka: Well it was more something that I wanted to discuss based on some of the statements that Mike made. I concur with the discussion about training. That is why one thing that we always try to do in our grant to State and on to National Parks Service we always try to put some kind of training component in the funding that we ask for. October 4, 2012 K.H.P.&C. Meeting Minutes Page 20 I just wanted to go back to the statement that Mike made about possibly overlapping fiuictions between the State and the KHPRC and this kind of like goes before you and even before me as far as how this system was set up. I thinlc if you look at the ordinance the ordinance specifies that of this board this commission there is to be a minimum of six disciplines involving like architecture, historian, archeology, and so forth and then where it says that if you are not able to have that expertise within the County you are to get that from the State. So there was an agreement made before you and I you know in setting there was an understanding that there would be this expertise provided we needed that besides your responsibility through bE I think there was that there would be training and also some expertise on the review of hi: like that. Now we do have architects here but you know you can never always be the expertise available to serve on the commission. Ms. Aiu: Archaeologist. up this program I think to the County wherever also an agreement made toric buildings and stuff guarantee that they will Mr. Hironaka: Archaeologist correct. So I think Nancy McMahon that was a staff person attended almost every KHPRC meeting. So I just wanted to give you that. Mr. Wichman: And then which of course right now you are reassigning the archeological branch chiefs on the different islands. So you have assigned new ones but yet this island is still, no one has been assigned to this island yet. When is that intended? Mr. Gushard: That is at the level of whoever said we are going back and forth. Mr. Wiclu -nan: Like Myles just that we have had a close working relationship with the archaeology branch chief here within this commission and we miss it. We need that expertise. Mr. Gushard: I will definitely, that will be one of the first things when I get back tomorrow that is something that you guys would like to see. Ms. Griffin: And as you are checking on that I attended a meeting in December of 2010 and the presentation from Larry Oaks and so forth and the Director was saying at the time that there is a big push within SHPD, one of their goals is to have things online and accessible and at the very first thing that they were going to do was the Kauai archeological study since we don't have access to that anymore since there is no office her. So if you can check on that. Mr. Wichman: They just hired a librarian and other. I know they need that library because we have over 500 studies generated since 1911 on this island alone. That's not including state wide just for this island. Different studies that's been done. We haven't had access to it. No one has had access to that in a while. Not even in the archeology community but within the CLG program. But we are getting off track. These are all things /tools that we once had and no longer have access too. It would be nice to have. October 4. 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 21 Mr. Long: If you can be patient with me but I have some basic personal information gathering questions. So I understand the ten percent of the federal budget and that was $47,000 is it around that each year? Mr. Gushard: It is. It trends up slightly over time and in the past five years it's been in the $50,000 range. The amount for the 2012 year is $50,484. That's what we had and probably will have the next year. Mr. Long: So if this is a two year application process. Mr. Gushard: The grant is theoretically supposed to be executed over two years but it takes a year for the process of getting the contract signed. Mr. Long: Ok so the $47,000 that we are supposed to get for the inventory that is spent by September 2013. When is the earliest that you can apply for the next year? Mr. Gushard: You know you can, once the previous fiscal year closes you can apply at any time and we can go back and forth you know and the specifics of making the application good the drop dead date is in April. Mr. Long: The drop dead date is April of this year for the following year? Mr. Gushard: Yes, Mr. Long: Has there been any year when the CLG grant money hasn't gone to Maui or Kauai? Mr. Gushard: There was a year recently and I have only been here a year so I don't have a great deal of institutional memory. There was a year recently where Kauai wanted to do a project and 1Ajasn't able to and that year they entered $1,800 for training and so the money went unofficially through Kauai to the Historic Hawaii Foundation to put on a training about CLGs. Mr. Long: As a business person I understand the reciprocity with Maui. If Maui hasn't indicated that they were going to apply for a grant why don't we just apply for a grant and see where the cards fall? M1 I . W icliman: He has to verify the latest correspondence. N11% Long: Yes but even if there is this understanding of back and forth Maui hasn't indicated that they have a project. April is coming up pretty quick you know as a business person I would like to shop on this option, that option. You know gee I got this as a possibility over here. Apple for a grant maybe Maui will go a Kauai it looks like they need something to do. Mr. Wichman: A general trend would be every other year. When it gets complicated even if it is a two year process. October 4, 2072 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 22 Mr. Long: But given the fact that we didn't get our money every other year than why not put in our application and say hey we didn't get it for a couple years and now we have a project over here. Ms. Griffin: Myles as our staff person what would you have to say about pulling together an application for the 2014 funds? Mr. Hironaka: Well what's in my mind is the current contract and funding that we have and how far that will get us. Then sort of like you know if we can ask for the same amount of funding to complete that or if in fact it goes like three quarters you only need like half a month to finish then it becomes a question of aside from training what other projects would we consider doing? So I think that would be one of the questions. I don't think, I am not sure, but we have to check with both the State and our procurement officer if we can, how would you say, the current contract that I create if it can be on a continuing basis if additional funds are available or it may have to be a new contract or a separate contact. I am not sure if I can do it of a multiyear type of a contract unless we initially advertise it and made it as such. So those are things that we have to look at as far as looking at the next: but we can try and make the request. I am just not sure if it can be general for inventory and training. I am not sure if we have the latitude to change the project if we find we need to do something else. Ms. Aiu: We kind of figured it out today that we wouldn't have enough money and we also wanted to get it online. That is a whole other process. Ms. Griffin: If there is no other objection from the Commission I would like to ask Myles to pursue how we can begin the process for part b of the inventory because I think the commission over the past several months, since 1904, has been anxious to bring our inventory up to date acid its Ihne after time I did apply that as the priority for us going fi.iture with IJIe Ritld "11 turtwithstcuiding having a partial fund all the time for training. Mr. Hironaka: Mike would there be an official call for projects? Mr. Gushard: Just because there was just the two, I haven't done it in the year I have been there but I can do it when I get back. Mr. Long: That's my nature of my next question which is the phasing. Now $47,00550,000 isn't enough to finish this inventory so what's the total scope of the project and how many $50,000 phases are there? Mr. Wichman: In the past normally we hire Mason Architect or Canner. Ms. Griffin: I don't think we can answer that question at this point. Request for qualifications are about to go out for this particular chunk of inventory and Myles will be negotiating with the consultant to get a sense of how much it will cost per structure or however it ends up being done but at this stage I don't think we can answer that. \ October 4. 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 23 Mr. Long: Well not right now but that would be a good thing to know that we have this project it's going to come down to three $50,000 phases and where are the phases. Is it by town? Is it by priority of structure? Ms. Griffin: The P I G was just discussing that. Ms. Sheehan: We came in early today. Ms. AM So first of all I know that you wanted to serve on the P I G committee and we are only allowed so many people and I thank you very much for that because you do have good knowledge for us thank you. There are 518 entities on this paper some are objects, some are towns, and so if you take $47,000 isn't that much. The person got to all over and look I also wanted color photographs next time too. I cannot answer your question how many $47.000 cause we are kind of going over that today cause I don't know how many there are. 500 into $47,000 is how much? You know is it like ten dollars per place? Ms1,_.S_heehani That list is from 1998 so the historicness of 2012 that we have not kept tip Nvill). W o !rave stopped at 1998 so some of, a lot of that list needs to be called anyway beCause ti01111C of therm are gone but in addition to that 500 there is everything that has happened then till ilo«v which is huge. Mr. Long: Are the inventory but that's an existing inventory. We know that they are... Ms. Aiu: But our goal is to update this inventory like she said. Mr. Long: But is the goal to add to this inventory? Mr. Wichnian: Yes there is 15 years of... Mr. Long: And also chip away at this one? Ms. Aiu: So we know two $47,000 we could use that and then we are going to have to figure 'out from there. Mr. Wickman: We could probably off the top 200 structures easy. Ms. Sheehan: And that is just for Uhu'e. Mr. Long: In addition to the new structures. Ms. Sheehan: And we were talking about cultural landscapes as well cause I know Kuulei Nyas culture and that but we have heiau like the Pohoku one that came before us. It's not on the list at all. So it's definitely historic. It's definitely cultural. That archeological side of it is you know maybe we don't have enough time for that. It's a little bit more sensitive isn't it and we might October 4, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 24 find a burial in there too. So that's not our kuleana. There is a new update on Lihu'e town they may suggest that we start there. Ms. Griffin: And as you probably know there were two development plan, district development plan updates that are going to be starting in the fullness of time and so that's one possibility but there actually another part one which is looking at building b on Main Street and the second part Is ].low all that is going to get documented and be more accessible than it's been in the past 1111d those costs are also uncertain at this point. Mr. Wichman: I think at this point I think you can see that this commission really wants to get this building inventory updated and moving on so whatever it is that takes in the long ter11l phasing it's a priority of this commission to complete this and get up to date. Whether it takes one, two, three, four sessions to do it so be it. That's what we are going to do and complete it and then there is other things that need to happen whether it's side by side or we can move on those once we have agreed to update our inventory. Anything built in '62 is now eligible. Ms. Griffin: That seems so recent. Mr. Wichman: That doesn't mean that everything built in '62 was historically important. So you can see how this get's narrowed down. I think we are all on that list at this time. Ms. Griffin: And since you have been going to Maui and to our CLG meeting I understand that Maui meets at the same time as we do. They have a different name that we do and that is something that has come up with us on whether historic encompasses our rich cultural heritage and obviously that would entail a ordinance change but it is something that we're reviewing. Do you have any comments on how the light of the name is holding up as States is very similar to our County one. Mr. Gushard: Not per say. If you are going to change it you are going to have to change the ordinance. I do think that being a graduate of an historic program, I guess it's been a year now, there is more focus on intangible bits of history and processes that happen as opposed to touchable things. So you know its touchable things. So you know it wouldn't be bad. Your current name is historic though. I mean you have always had it. Ms. Griffin: Yes indeed. As is yours. (Laughter in the background ). So following from that the difference is with Maui, Maui as I understand has a preservation planner. Do you work with that person at all and how can we look cause we talk about it every year. What is your feeling about having a preservation planner in place within the County structure? Mr, Gushard: It's fantastic. There were several years where Kauai didn't get any money and I think in part was because there was a person in the County whose whole job was preservation. Maui was there gobbling up and doing projects and doing good in the computer because there was someone whose sole purpose was preservation and having gone to the meeting I think it's useful in the absence of having a SHPD person talking about character defining features but it's a great thing to have you know. October 4, 2012 K,HRR.C. Meeting Minutes Path 2,S Ms. Griffin: Other questions? Ms. Aiu: It's just a comment about training. So I really love the 106 training that I went to and. I hope you get to go because I have been with the commission since the `80s and I am still learning new things. So like she said you can review and learn some more things. The CLG the one on Maui I learned a lot of things there and I think you can find some CLG information in that book about how the process goes. They gave us with Historic Hawai'i a small little workshop that was about the architecture and L-91u'e. Do you remember that one? You spoke at that one too, Ms. Griffin: Yes. Ms. Aiu: And so you go the big picture the 106, the CLGs but then you have these little opportunities to learn about your own town which is sometimes I think (inaudible) or like he suggested your architect person could come for a day and tell us more things. We kind of depend on, now we have Steve but. Mr. Wichman: It's cheaper bring her here. Ms. Aiu: Yes plus it makes us look at what's in our own town. So I really like your folks idea about that. I was very happy last year to attend the County, your folks Planning Commission and I was very disappointed that none of us I don't anyone was offered. I sure wasn't offered an opportunity to attend. It is always a learning experience and it also gives us the developers mind set cause then you know ok this is what I don't want the developer to do and I heard him say that. So besides only learning history stuff you learn what's going on. What are people in the development world think about historic stuff. So I wanted to just mention those things that it might have to be it could be money for occasions that go on and then we also were invited, I think we might have got that free from Randy and his wife the archaeology conference which happened to be on our island and that was wonderful too. So some training can be for things are already planned and going on yea. Thank you. Ms. Griffin: Anything else? Well thank you Mike I hope you will come and be with us really frequently. Mr. Gushard: I am told that I should be able to come a little bit more frequently which I think it would be better for me. Mr. Hironaka: Would it help if we wrote a letter to your boss. Ms. Aiu: Did you cover everything that you wanted to? October 4. 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 26 Mr. Gushard: I actually had one more question and this is kind of a daft question so deal with me I apologize. Specifically what do you guys review. I didn't have a chance to review the ordinance when I carne in. I remember things better when I kind of talk about things? Mr. Hironaka.: Can I work with him? Mr. Wicbman: YeE;, it will be really educational. Mr. Gushard: There does need to be, but maybe everything is fine the way the SHPD interacts with the commission from a review and compliance stand point but at some point in the future it might be a nice to have a conversation about figuring out exactly what to do. We have a lot of new people at SHPD who haven't been here to know how things work. Ms. Griffin: That would be really, I think very helpful you said it used to be very much we waited you know sense both nationally and with the state is that the local what it is so how that relationship is working I think is in having you back in time. Thank you. as the relationships evolve because like the letter and responded in kind and my folks on the ground do know more about worth a discussion and we look forward Re: Appointment of investigative committee members and discussion to scope tasks for an investigative committee to identify properties for nomination to the State and National Register of Historic Places. Once formed and the tasks completed, the investigative committee will present its findings to the Commission in a duly noticed meeting for decision - making. Ms. Griffin: The next task item is appointment of investigative committee members and discussion to scope tasks for an investigative committee to identify properties for nomination to the State and National Register of Historic Places. Is someone willing to chair that and another commissioner or two be part of that? Mr. Long: I would be interested in doing that. Mr. Junk: You guys can have technically up to four. Ms. Griffin: Unfortunately some of us are already pigging away. (Laughter in background). Randy do you want to be? Mr. Wichman: There is I don't really need to get into discussion of it all. The history of it where it is this whole program has been and where it is today, the misconception of this program and the minds of not only the community but with the government itself It's a new era. It's a new tune. There are difficulties when you mention the federal. Today in this day and age as soon as you say the federal this in peoples mind they immediately assume its federal interjection. It's federal involved in their own land and we all know that it isn't cause we have been through the thing before and it isn't. Essentially it's just a piece of paper that says that the federal October 4, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 27 government recognizes this property as being important and you are thereby eligible to apply for these grants over here but as a stroke of a pen it's the power of a piece of paper that essentially is only saying that the federal government recognizes it is historically important to American history. In most people's minds and in Hawaiian community right now going on to a state and federal Hawaiian community. However my experience in dealing with all of this yes within a Native that you mention a certain site or a landmark or anything is list all the flags are blown and I understand that within the I was absolutely shocked that what the community, the Hawaiian community, is viewing this that I heard the same attitude over there. the real issues was not within as taken. It is within branches So today because of the federal intervention, the people's minds it is a very difficult subject and after years of saying it over and over it's just a stroke of the paper. Federal does not give the right to intervene or interfere and on and on. It's just I personally have better things and more important things to do in that particular time in regards to the federal bits. State no. however without the feds (inaudible). However I am just saying it's a difficult time right now because of the assumption of the federal take over and I bought into so many times already I am done. Ms. Griffin: So if there is no objection I would like to continue this particular iteni, C.2.b., on next month's agenda because I have a feeling that we are all just too tired to participate in the way we should but please I applaud you and expect you to remain on the list for reviewing the State and National Register and how we are going to fulfill that role as KHPRC. Ms. Aiu: And we will. This doesn't mean that we are not going to do State and National. We will do it as a body. Mr. Wichman: Then that just makes it a political climate has changed and therefore one really must have a philosophical discussion over the overall intention of the programs and this whole education piece that needs to go with it. So it's essentially we need too... times are changing. Ms. Aiu: And I hear you and I had some governmental people tell me about the feds and you know I have seen the government media (inaudible). Mr. Wichman: That just ended it for me. Ms. Aiu: But what I am saying is that, that's our role. Mr. Wichman: Yes but yet its (inaudible). Ms. Aiu: Yes but not paper. To don't have to dorm a P I G if we M;. CTxii£ua: True enough and I review it. We focused so much review it, we are still going to have to review it as a group. We don't want to 'd like to put that on the agenda for next month so that \vc cult today on the inventory and looking at the general P I G tbat 1 October 4. 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 28 think that we will be clearer next month because that process of recognizing sites is an important: one for us to review and be aware of. Ms. Aiu: And one more piece to that. I am sorry putting the horse before the cart. I think that after we do our inventory, then that might be a time to look at ok we have done our inventory. What on there do we want to recommend for National Register if we do? So that's just another piece ok. Ms. Griffin: Ok thank you. NEW BUSINESS Re: Letter (9/12/12) from Glenn T. Kimura, President, Kimura International, Inc. requesting input /consultation in accordance with the National Historic Preservation Act, Section 106 on the Lydgate Park to Kapa`a Bike/Pedestrian Path (Phases C &D), Waipouli, Kawaihau District, Kauai, TMK: [4] 4 -3 -001, 002, and 007: various = County of Kauai, Department of Public Works. Chair: Do you want to talk about Hanalei? Mr. Maunakea Trask: No. Chair: Are you cutting in line? Mr. Trask: I would like to yes. Chair: Well let me just check on that hold on j ust a minute where are you. Mr. Trask: I would just like to say I am sorry. Deputy County Attorney Maunakea Trask for the record. I wanted to make this request prior to the meeting but I was late. I apologize. I would just like to, and this is at your discretion Chair, I would like to know if it would be possible to take item D.J. out of order and the reason why is because I was working very closely with the Native 11owufflan Protocol Committee as well as Cheryl Lovell- Obatake who is CLU -rep ly leadinj' thct Section 106 process on the Lydgate Park to Kapa`a Bike and Pedestrian Path Pliases C & D acid I have to go and staff the Liquor Commission at 4:00 so I was wondering it.'1 could Just do a shol-t presentation, avail myself to any questions you may have and then I could leave not delaying my other cornmission. Chair: Does anybody from the audience... Mr. Wichman: Are you guys ok with us moving this ahead of you Holly? Ms. Holly McEldowney: I am ok. October 4. 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 29 Mr. Wiehman: You promise to keep it short? Mr. Trask: I will. Ms. McEldowney: We are fine. Mr. Trask: So it will be just myself and Glenn. Ms. Griffin: Before you start I would just like to announce to the Commission that although my husband has no financial interest in the Kauai Path he is secretary of that nonprofit organization so without having financial compensation from him I feel comfortable reviewing this but I did want you to know that there is that association. Chair: Ok on to new business. Mr. Trask: I would like to go over briefly the legal overview. Chair: You want to introduce your partner real fast. Mr. Trask: This is Mr. Glenn Kimura from Kimura International. He is our consultant for this project; So what currently, in short the Lydgate to Kapa`a Beach Bike Path was examined in the past and the results of the environmental assessment in 2007 where they went before OEQC, they went through the entire public hearing process, and the document was promu.lg(tttecl. land MOA was entered in to and the path was planned and the route was laid out. At thzlt hire, thoiigl) 010 COUnty was working on another portion of the path and then focus on Wailua area was going to start right there and then our course changed and went to another supplemental process to re.- invite comment because there was a lot of concerns in the Wailua area specific�illy putting 1110 path. well on top of the sand. The Mayor Bernard Carvalho thought there was a lot of community concern about this and so we went back and looked at the issues and did another supplemental 106 process and therefore that portion of the path had been moved down to the State DOT right of way. Subsequent to that some other opportunities came up more toward the Waipouli area specifically Coconut Market Place along the coast whereby two large hotel developments were now slated to be in construction. Part of the requirements of their permit was they needed to provide lateral beach access along the shoreline in front of their development. Given that opportunity my understanding is that the County and consultants wanted to look at what was identified in this map for illustration purposes its phases C & D. The current path of the bike path goes along the new cantilevered bridge and then the State DOT right of way along Papaloa Road. It was set to terminate at the Coconut Market Place on the side of the old theater and then from Papaloa Road where it meets Kuhi`o Highway go mauka and along the bypass road area mauka of the highway behind Fernandez Road and Kapa`a Canal then behind Waipouli Town Center and Foodland along down the canal and then rrkove again north. This leg, phase C, up until approximately the Courtyard and Coconut Beach Marriott was a leg October 4, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 30 that went there and didn't continue or connect on to Papaloa Road. Beginning this development was the possibility of connecting this area going malcai. Now with the spirit of 106 we wanted to bring that to the community again through a supplemental EA and then further go through the process. Now in doing that and acknowledging a lot of the problems the County has had with 106 consultation in the past we wanted to avoid that and have more culturally appropriate process and a more culturally appropriate process. A more open process that was accessible to the community and so the County and the consultants worked closely with the Native Hawaiian community to address these concerns. As a basic overview as you are aware Section 106 of the National Historic Preservation Act requires Federal agencies or projects utilizing Federal funds to take into the account the affects of their undertakings on historic properties and for the Advisory Council on Historic Preservation a reasonable opportunity to comment on such L1TU1.0114likings. Now Section 106 itself does not say much other than that it is a very general statement of law in a paragraph saying you shall consult with. The procedures in 36CFR., Pail 800, the Protection o I' Historic Properties specifically define how federal agencies meet this statutory responsibilities, 36CFR, Part 800 is a very detailed document. It goes through the four step process which is essentially first, to identify historic properties; second, assess the undertakings of the affects on those properties; third, seek ways to avoid minimize, mitigate an adverse affects on the historic properties; and fourth, to resolve those affects if any. Also use of 36CFR, Part 800 it doesn't provide a specific road map. It just provides what steps need to be taken. It allows flexibility in order to accomplish the consultation process however, the lack of specificity does make it difficult to work with sometimes especially when you consider the importance of the document in consulting on United States, Continental United State, Native American Tribal Nations, and in Hawai'i which again doeisn't have any Federal recognized nations or tribes and the Hawaiian people themselves are not Federally recognized as an indigenous people.So in Hawai'i the parameters and rules in 36CFR, Part 800 they take on a different characters because Hawaiian organizations are not very formulized. There is a multitude of them. There is a lot of chiefs in the kingdom right now you could say. So in order to do this Kimura International recommended and the County pursued consultation with Native Hawaiian Protocol Committee. This committee was comprised of various esteemed members of Native Hawaiian community including but not limited to Sharon Pomroy, Cheryl Lovell - Obatake, Kumu Nathan Kalama, Beverly Muraoka, Barbara Say. Representatives from OHA Kaliko Santos, Aunty Liberta ;Albao, etc. You kind of get the drift. And so what was decided in that process was that the 106 process leaded to be more culturally appropriate. The need to accommodate more and the need to allow Hawaiians to take a more meaningful, participate more meaningful in the process and they wanted to feel that they are involved more than just being provided the information and asking for something in return. So what happened was that after a lot of ,discussion Cheryl Lovell- Obatake, it was decided, I am sorry, that the best way to conduct the 106 process for this particular section, supplemental phase October 4, 2012 K.H.P.R,C. Meeting Minutes Page 31 C & D EA, was to fbllow the hooponopono process that has been part of the Native Hawaiian Culture since the beginning of time. The hooponopono process itself is a formal process, the Native Hawai'ian culture that essentially a family solves its problems. That's how it's dealt with. Tile hooponopono process itself is different between families, different between di fflerent islands, li[°l:i:rent districts within the island. So the committee thought the best process to tbllow NVUS' lilt, hooponopono process described by Mary :Kawena Pukui in her book Nana I Ke Kunw..She is recognized culturally, academically, and legally as an expert in Native Hawaiian culture. So we thought it would be best to use her product. After much discussion, Cheryl Lovell - Obatake acting as interim hoo of the Section 106, Lydgate Park to Kapa` a Bike Pedestrian Path Hawaiian Protocol and Preparation Committee made the following findings and I would like to submit these are part of the record. But in essence they say the following: the lack of formal recognition of the Native Hawaiian Government puts Native Hawaiians at a disadvantage in regards to Section 106 Consultation Process. Members of Native Hawaiian organizations have many other duties and obligations and unlike your Native Hawaiian tribal counterparts, Native Hawaiians commonly do not hold a position in their respective Native Hawaiian organizations. Native Hawaiian voluntarily avail themselves to the, Federal Section 106 Consultation process out of love and aloha for the aina, their culture, and their traditions and therefore should be treated with the upmost deference and respect. It goes on to say essentially what I just told you that the best way to accommodate these goals is to engage in a formal hooponopono process. This was agreed t6 by the Nativo Hawaiian Protocol Committee and because of her hard work in this area and her knowledge both as a Native Hawaiian cultural practitioner, a community activist. Someone very sophisticated in both Native Hawaiian culture and American law and land use law Cheryl Lovell - Obatake was appointed as the hoo of the process. So currently what we are doing is we are going through that process. It's taping some time and it's slow however we are confident in it how it is processed is Aunty Cheryl presides over the entire meeting. It's conducted in a circular character like this and she sits in the middle like the process described by Mary Kawena Pukui. She says and directs everything and the order and the quorlun. of these meetings, because largely the strength of her mana, is much easier to deal with because in any hooponopono process the people with the problem, with the pilikia, they are forbidden from talking to each other. Everything is directed through the kupuna of the family. So in that case Aunty Cheryl would request the agency official, in this case Federal Highways, she will say Mr. Nickelson please present your findings on the presence of historical properties. At that point Mr. Nickelson will present his findings. Aunty Cheryl will then go over the entire; room and ask individually, Mr. Long do you have any questions. If Mr. Long has questions he will ask her. She will relate it to the agency official. The agency official will reply to her. She then will ask Mr. Long if he is satisfied. If he is satisfied go to Ms. Sheehan. Ms. Sheehan do you have any questions and it follows that intermediary so that emotions are kept calm and relationships aren't further destroyed which we found in Section 106 process is very hard to do because again Native Hawaiians and the public at large, the public are also invited to these meetings as required by 36CFR, part 800. October 4.2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 32 When you come to these meetings a lot of people are very passionate about what they feel. That's good however; a lot of people don't understand specifically what the laws says. These consultation laws are also difficult to deal with because a lot of people want to come in to a meeting and shut down the meeting and the purpose of these consultation meetings is to get everyone's manao and information first and then the decision makers can make their decisions. If anyone wants to stop the process after that, that's the appropriate time. However to come to a consultation, and EIS meeting, EA meeting, or 106 meeting to go in there locked and loaded ready to say stop the project really can't be done.. No one has the authority to do that. It's largely consultants, line workers like myself. No one has that authority it's really information gathering. So at this point we are using the hooponopono process in order to facilitate the information gathering and we feel that it is largely working because on the strength of Cheryl Lovell - Obatake. We feel that this model is a good model for future 106 process because really in the native Hawaiian community I think it's obvious that there are a lot of other cultural factors that take place that aren't accommodated in things like Robert's Rules. You know general western policy and procedures. Really anything other than Hawaiian culture. So someone can sit up there with the appropriate mana and manao and all that wonderful stuff and the process itself is easier to be fulfilled and ultimately the most important thing is that the project and the cultural aspects and the effects on any historic property can be adequately addressed. So essentially we are using the hooponopono process as the mold and then we are bending the federal CRFs to fit that process so that the Native Hawaiians are more instrumental and feel more a part of it and don't feel like they have just been put through the ringer and not listened to. That's it in a nutshell. If you have any other further questions that I can answer. Chair: So you are here because you want us to... Mr. Wichrnan: If I may. It behooves us to wait for the outcome of this hooponopono process. I think it is a really good positive step and you have gotten an individual respected from all sides and we need to allow the time for this process to bear fruit in the way of recommendations. I think that's really good. In the mean time I just wanted to make one thing understood in the sense of the responsibility of this commission. We know and we have had it before, Burial Council takes care and deals with all issues that are immediately related to the iwi within that section. Where we come in is that we have jurisdiction/kuleana over the buffers. This is where we come in and so therefore we would definitely entertain discussion on these historic properties as they go along especially prior to construction and during construction and afterwards. They end up being simple bits. You know we have done them before with the red barriers around the appropriate. So at some point within this corridor as it goes through there, there are certain buffers that need to be done with the burial. I just want to separate those two issues right now. They have essential core burial we have the buffer and for those discussions in regards to buffer and what happens within those buffers is us. And so I want that on the table that we need to have a really good discussion regarding the buffers. It's a case by case as you go down the line. October 4, 2012 K.H.P.R.G. Meeting Minutes Page 33 Mr. Trask: Definitely and I think if that would be the case it may be prematute to have this discussion a this tirne and the reason why is because of the activity and development in the area over the pass 40, 50, 60 years and there are cultural layers, burial, and other historic sites. There is a World War II bunker around the area which would fall within your purview however, at this point that initial information was made know to the NHOs and members of the public, etc. and there was a lot of concerns brought up you knew for example one woman, Hana Reeves from the Big Island intimated that she was very concerned about this project. She didn't like. this project. She didn't like these projects. She represented OHA and that she wanted a hundred feet buffer zones in the area. We also got numerous other testimony regarding land title, land history, the fact that some people weren't at the meeting. The fact that some people weren't present at the meeting people made more comfortable if they further attempts were made to bring them. So our next meeting is currently scheduled for October 31St. Supplemental documents have been updated to include those insights and then that would be presented to begin October 31St. We hope after we get their further information and maybe at that time it would be more appropriate to come up to you with that product and get your guys advice on that. If that's what you like. Mr. Wichman: I think at this particular point for us to continue without letting this hooponopono process take place and then the next time we can take on this discussion. Ms. Ai u: Question please. Where did you get this map from? Mr. Kimura: That is from our EA we did back in 2007. Ms. Aiu: This is yours. You own this map is that what you are saying? Mr. Kimura: It's part of a public document. Mr. Trask: And what I can do if you would like the 2007 EA itself is a very extensive document. I have it on my desktop as a file but I can forward that to Mr. Jung and he might be able to make it available to you if you would like your own copy. It (inaudible) everything up to .this point excluding the most recent knowledge. Mr. Wickman; I have also had a chance to read your notes in regards to the Native Hawaiian organizations in your last meeting. You have already briefed on those minutes. Chair: Any other comments? No. Alright thank you. Mr. Trask: Thank you very much. Re: Appointment of investigative committee members and discussion to scope tasks for an investigate committee to identify potential amendments to Article 25, Chapter 8 of the Kauai County Code, 1987 as amended, including to but not limited to changing the name of the Commission and clarifying the role of the Commission. October 4, 2012 K.H.P.R.C. Meeting Minutes Page 34 Once formed and the tasks completed, the investigative committee will present it findings to the Commission in a duly noticed meeting for decision - making. Ms. Griffin: So moving on to new business D.2. is another P I G. Appointment of investigative committee members and discussion to scope tasks for an investigate committee to identify potential amendments to Article 25, Chapter 8 of the Kauai County Code. That is what I brought up a few minutes ago with the possibility of changing our name and clarifying the role of the commission. If there is no objection I would like to put that as well on next month's agenda. rather than discussing it further today. Thank you. SELECTION OF NEXT MEETING DATE AND AGENDA TOPICS The next KHPRC meeting was scheduled on Thursday, November 1, 2012. ADJOURNMENT The meeting was adjourned at 5,00 p.m. Submitted, U. Jimenez Secretary OCT 2 6 2012