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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2013-4-11 Open Space Commission Minutes PUBLIC ACCESS , OPEN SPACE & NATURAL RESOURCES PRESERVATION FUND COMMISSION REGULAR MINUTES April 11 , 2013 A regular meeting of the Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission of the County of Kauai was held in the Lihue Civic Center, Moikeha Building, in meeting room 2A/2B . The following Commissioners were present: Joseph Figaroa, Vice Chairperson Linda Dela Cruz Dorothea Hayashi John Lydgate Maurice Nakahara Absent and excused: Nathaniel Childs, Chairperson Theodore Blake Luke Evslin Patrick Gegen The following staff members were present: Nam Sadora and Duke Nakamatsu and Deputy County Attorney Ian Jung. CALL TO ORDER Vice Chair Figaroa called the meeting to order at 1 : 08 p .m. APPROVAL OF AGENDA On the motion by Linda Dela Cruz and seconded by John Lydgate to approve the agenda, the motion carried by unanimous voice vote. ANNOUNCEMENTS Deputy County Attorney Jung announced that the PowerPoint projector for his presentation under Commission Education was not available. He suggested that the Commission may also want to wait until more Commissioners were present to hear his presentation. 1 V:\2013 Master Files\Commissions\Open Space\Meetings\2013-4-11 Minutes Chair Figaroa announced that the Commission will be deferring agenda items F . 1 . and G. 1 . , but will accept public testimony. NEW BUSINESS Discussions on current state of access at Kaakaaniu (aka Larsen ' s Beach) Commissioner Lydgate requested an elaboration on this agenda item. Deputy County Attorney Jung stated that Mr. Waldo requested an agenda item for discussion on Kaakaaniu. The County has thoroughly reviewed the access issues and an additional access has been opened, but there is concern regarding what is referred to as the alaloa that is not technically designated by the State DLNR as the alaloa. The Commission received testimony from Peter Waldo. Mr. Waldo stated that he did a presentation on Kaakaaniu at the last meeting. Ms. Kallai has assembled a PowerPoint on the concept of a coastal green belt 10 ' wide 10 miles long from Aliomanu to Anini and another presentation on a mauka/makai greenway along the Kalihiwai River. He stated that they will be unable to present due to the unavailability of the projector. Deputy County Attorney Jung clarified that staff would require advanced notice and approval from the Chair for a PowerPoint presentation. Public testimony is limited to testimony. It is up to the Chair to authorize a presentation. There needs to be advanced notice, rather than to show up and expect to give a presentation. Vice Chair Figaroa questioned if Ms. Kallai ' s PowerPoint was authorized at the last meeting. Deputy Count Attorney Jung stated that she was on the last agenda. There may be an expectation that people can just show up and give a presentation. Vice Chair Figaroa noted that there is a misunderstanding. Mr. Waldo stated that he could relay to Ms. Kallai that in the future when they would like to give a PowerPoint presentation, they would need to notify the Commission ahead of time. Vice Chair Figaroa noted that the agenda item will be deferred to the next meeting, but the Commission will receive testimony and handouts today. Mr. Waldo reviewed the documents he submitted for the record (on file) and noted that he submitted a disc containing photos and the documents (on file). 2 VA2013 Master Files\Commissions\Open Space\Meetings\2013-4-11 Minutes Vice Chair Figaroa stated that they normally limit public testimony to 3 minutes, but he would allow 5 minutes for the presentation. Mr. Waldo stated that he testified last week attempting to show the continuity of use of the coastal trail in Kaakaaniu from ancient times to present. The 1878 map shows the current Koolau Road and a coastal road that some refer to as the alaloa, makai of Koolau Road. He submitted three letters from kupuna, stating that they walked from Moloaa Bay to Larsen' s Beach along the Kaakaaniu trail as teenagers in the late 30s to early 40s. He noted that there is an audio file on the disc that is a presentation to the Kilauea Neighborhood Association from Bob Schleck, the Director of Waioli Corporation, owner of the to the property next door, Lepeuli . In the presentation, Mr. Schleck stated that before Larsen' s Beach Road was created in 1978 access to Lepeuli was from Moloaa which was an arduous hike. Mr. Waldo noted that in 1994, he regularly used the coastal trail. In 1998, the parcel on the north side of Moloaa Bay was purchased and became Moloaa Bay Ranch. In 2000, they mapped a coastal trail that was surveyed and eventually became part of the State Na Ala Hele State trail system. In the deed there was a reservation for a trail over and across the land, near the high water mark, the location to be determined by the Commissioner of Public Lands . What was the Territorial Commissioner of Public Lands in the 1930s became the State DLNR. He referenced the surveyed trail going into Kaakaaniu in 2000 . Na Ala Hele presented an internal memo showing the Kaakaaniu parcel fee simple ownership of the section of the alaloa that passes through Kaakaaniu and Lepeuli is with the State of Hawaii through the DLNR. The photographs he submitted were from February, 2007 showing the location of the trail, which also unintentionally documented that there were no birds in the area. Two weeks later a letter was sent to the property owner informing that the State wanted to locate the trail terminating at the previously existing gate on the fence that marks the boundary with Moloaa Bay Ranch stating that they wanted to be sensitive to the owner' s need for privacy and the need for protection of the birds that are on the property. Two years later the fence had t-posts, the original barbed wire, a chain linked fence, and a hog wire fence with signage indicating that the fence was to protect the birds . He added that when the photos were taken in 2007, he was invited by the owner of the property to view the albatross chicks but he couldn't find them. He was told that they needed to walk up hill to see the birds. Ms. Kallai and Councilmember Kawahara both informed the State of the trail closure in 2009 and 2010. Ms . Kallai will be presenting information regarding the legal authority that requires safe coastal access along bluff areas and that it is illegal to block off public trails. Commissioner Lydgate asked for clarification on Mr. Waldo ' s recommendation. Mr. Waldo stated that his recommendation is for the Commission to encourage the State to negotiate their claim for the trail with the property owner. Commissioner Lydgate noted that the Open Space Commission is a County body. Deputy County Attorney Jung clarified that the State has been on this issue for his entire career in the County. It is a complicated issue with older maps and some who claim the alaloa is in one area and others who claim that it is in another. There is history in trying to identify it. With the oral history of the Hawaiian culture it is hard to pin point the location. It is a State issue 3 VA2013 Master Files\Commissions\Open Space\Meetings\2013-4-11 Minutes if they are going to stake claim in the trail. The Planning Department has requested clarification from the State but has not received any response. Commissioner Lydgate noted that about 10 years ago, the Kauai Historic Preservation Review Commission looked into it but nobody was able to figure it out. He questioned what the Open Space Commission could say or do . Deputy County Attorney Jung stated that the County met with Waioli Corporation who granted the County additional access because there were inhibitions to the current lot access. The law that Ms. Kallai refers to is HRS 115, the beach corridor law that allows for free transit along the beach corridor. The County can condemn property to create access where there is no beach corridor, but it costs a lot of money. In looking at the 10 ' wide, 10 mile trail, it is feasible, but would come at a great price to connect the area where there is no access to walk along the beach corridor. They can have further discussions during his presentation on SMA and subdivision process. The Commission received testimony from Hope Kallai. Ms. Kallai submitted a disc (on file) containing photos on a PowerPoint presentation. She stated that when there was a discussion with the State regarding relocating the trail on Moloaa Bay Ranch, it generated four pages of cultural consultants and commenters because it is a cultural byway and limu trail. The limu is at Kaakaamu reef. The fence on the Hanwright property makes the limu inaccessible and people have died there. The fence is creating serious safety issues. There is no authority to close the trail off and she suggested that someone look into this trail before more people die. She wrote a letter in 2009 and noted that a lot of people come at Christmas and used to walk the trail. Now there are fences and there is no safe passage. She noted that we have a right of safe passage on precipitous pali land. That was the Moloaa Bay Ranch consideration and the pali doesn 't end where the property line ends. The trail continues and needs to continue from the past to the present into the future to be able to access the limu from the traditional side from Moloaa. She looks forward to being able to present her testimony in a more efficient communicative manner with the ability to show the photos . Commissioner Lydgate thanked Ms. Kallai and noted that it isn't so much a campaign; it' s a crusade. Ms. Kallai stated that she keeps hearing Aunty Loke stating that she can' t let it go . Her manao is that the trail was open 24/7 to anybody, always . The Commission received testimony from Tim Kallai. Mr. Kallai stated that it is upon Aunty Loke ' s insistence that they are crusading. Before the Hanwrights acquired the property, she was walking this trail . They are trying to preserve an element of culture, of history, that many times may not be recorded in books or on papers as a designated trail . She has passed avail and joined the kupuna on the other side, but they still feel her presence prodding them to not give this up. They are asking with the factions to look into it 4 VA2013 Master Files\Commissions\Open Space\Meetings\2013-4-11 Minutes and make sure there is an understanding. There have been a lot of classifications for alaloa; coastal, inland, upland. Throughout history, as the need for transportation changed, so did certain roads and trails, but they know from her words, that there always was a coastal trail for the limu pickers and fisherman. They would like to see it kept in preservation for the sake of the culture and also for the beauty and presence. The Commission received testimony from Wilma Holi from Hanapepe. Ms. Holi stated that the management that area would have been the responsibility of the konohiki which we don't have these days . It would make sense that if safety becomes an issue, you would air on the side of common sense and keep the public safe from harm either from the ocean or the steepness of the cliff. She stated that her focus would be the Salt Pond area. She questioned the Commission' s ideas and dialog regarding the plans for Salt Pond and would like the opportunity to respond to that dialog regarding the action they plan to take. Vice Chair Figaroa stated that the public input process is an open dialog with the public within the regions . Ms. Holi stated that there were many things on the table with Salt Pond and questioned the current status . Vice Chair Figaroa stated that there is no master plan with Parks & Recreation for Salt Pond. The Commission ' s vision is to have a buffer for the salt pans . Ms. Holi asked for clarification that the Commission is looking at a buffer to protect the salt pans and questioned what they would be protecting the salt pans from. Vice Chair Figaroa stated that the major concern that was brought to their attention was the run off. Ms. Holi stated that a reservoir would take care of the run off. The water comes from mauka and is channeled into the valley and narrows down into the canal into Hanapepe Bay. Vice Chair Figaroa noted that discussion of Salt Pond will be coming up later in the agenda and she will be able to tune in to their discussion. Ms. Holi stated that the biggest issue at Salt Pond is human habitation of the perimeter of the pans on State property. Commissioner Nakahara noted that they will be discussing it later in the agenda. Ms. Holi stated that perhaps the legal counsel can discuss the governance process for interveners that may want to challenge the Commission' s decision. 5 VA2013 Master Files\Commissions\Open Space\Meetings\2013-4-11 Minutes Deputy County Attorney Jung stated that Open Space Commission is an advisory Commission to the County Council on how to utilize the Open Space funds for access or preservation of certain areas . There is no agency process where there can be intervention. The second step would be at the County Council. The Commission can weigh public testimony. UNFINISHED BUSINESS Status on acquisition plan for a portion of TMK (4) 2-6-003 : 017 to obtain a pedestrian public beach access easement to Kukuiula Bay through the former Hoban property or alternative access options . Deputy County Attorney Jung stated that he had a conversation with the land owner' s Oahu counsel and they have finalized their appraisal but it has not yet been turned over for his evaluation. They are appraising it with a legal reference to severance damages upwards to $6001000 . It is a big discrepancy in valuation between the appraisals. Until he receives the report, he is unable to analyze their justification. Once he evaluates the report, it would probably be best to go into executive session to discuss a legal response. Vice Chair Figaroa stated that they will also continue this agenda item for Commissioner Blake ' s presentation for alternate accesses . He questioned if the report will be received by the next meeting. Deputy County Attorney Jung stated that he has requested it. Their Oahu counsel stated that he just returned from vacation and will be speaking with his clients. Vice Chair Figaroa questioned the timeline. Deputy County Attorney Jung stated that he will follow up with them again. The Commission received testimony from Tessie Kinnaman. Ms. Kinnaman questioned the size of the appraisal. Deputy County Attorney Jung stated that he has not seen the appraisal from the land owner, but they were referencing severance damages . Ms. Kinnaman questioned if the County would receive credit in the severances since it is a County owned easement. She encouraged the Commission to push forward with this access because it is the safest public access for the community and they need this access . She noted that the Council and the Mayor have supported the pursuit of this access. The County Attorney' s office and the Planning Department have done a lot of work. She felt that 80% of the work has already been done and is pending negotiations with the land owner. She questioned the alternate access options . 6 VA2013 Master Files\Commissions\Open Space\Meetings\2013-4-11 Minutes Vice Chair Figaroa stated that he was not at the last meeting, but Commissioner Blake was going to share more information on alternatives. Ms. Kinnaman stated that the only safe route to the beach is the access through the former Hoban property. Any other option wound end on rocks . They would also have to go through the same process that they are going through now for any other access. She is happy that that negotiations have gone this far because it has been a long time waiting. She encouraged the Commission to keep pushing. Deputy County Attorney Jung stated that when going through the condemnation process, ultimately the issue comes down to valuation. There are certain legal defenses that land owners are able to raise in terms of how to appropriately value the taking of property for public use. He will have to research in depth the owner' s claim for severance damages . The idea behind that is how the property is devalued by the introduction of the public crossing over it. They will probably be discussing it in executive session. Ultimately the Council makes the decision to condemn through resolution. Commissioner Lydgate asked for clarification on severance damages. Deputy County Attorney Jung noted that it is a legal term of art that explains what could be due and owing. In this case it would refer to damages to the injury of the property. Review and discussion on past recommendations and prioritization of the Commission' s work plan/timeline of events and activities through 2013 including_ • Criteria spreadsheet for recommendations list (2013 report) Vice Chair Figaroa asked for an update since he was not at the last meeting. Commissioner Dela Cruz stated that each of the Commissioners chose areas that they felt were most important for acquisition. Their recommendations still need to be prioritized. Ms. Sadora stated that they were looking for a foundation on creating a list from areas that the Commissioners felt were important. They only identified properties at this point. Once they solicit public input, they will utilize their criteria to determine the categories and priorities. Vice Chair Figaroa clarified that step one was developing a list, step two would be soliciting public input, and step three would be to finalize. Ms. Sadora noted that the Commission wanted to categorize access recommendations and acquisition recommendations. 7 VA2013 Master Files\Commissions\Open Space\Meetings\2013-4-11 Minutes Discussion on updatin the he Open Space Commission webpage. Ms. Sadora stated that she has been working with the IT Department to include the survey on the website. The webpage setup is complicated so IT is working on the updates. In looking at it today, the updates were not yet live. She will follow up to ensure that the online survey remains active until the input period closes. Discussion on 2013 public input process for developing the biennial list of priority projects to be reported to the Kauai County Council and the Maw Ms. Sadora stated that Commissioners Blake and Hayashi participated in the Hanapepe Library event and the Commission discussed attending the upcoming Anahola Town Celebration. She noted the report from Commissioner Blake regarding the event in Hanapepe and referenced his critique of the display board. She stated that it was a challenge because it was an outdoor event but noted that they will be procuring a large display board within the next couple of months. Her understanding was that there was good public turnout. Some of the concerns were that some people didn't understand how to complete the survey. If they are unfamiliar with the place names or TMK there has to be some kind of way for them to identify the property. The survey was general but included the recommendations from the 2011 report. The Commission could chose to remove the previous recommendations and have the public provide their own input. She noted there were at least 25 surveys returned. She felt that it is helpful to provide the past recommendations or the direction the Commission is headed to provide some ideas, however, the Commissioners spent so much time explaining the surveys that they were not able to reach everyone that was at the event. Most of the responses identified an area, and others were not specific . "Beach access" is too general and is unable to be weighted. She felt that the Commissioners did a great job. Commissioner Hayashi stated that it was challenging with only two Commissioners trying to answer all of the questions. There were many locals and they were unaware of the Open Space Commission. One of the recommendations was for access to Pakala Beach which she never thought about before. Someone mentioned access to Niihau for fishing. It would have been helpful if more Commissioners were allowed to attend. Many elderly people needed more room to complete the surveys. There was a good turnout, but they were disappointed because they wanted to collect all of the answers that day. She thanked the Commission for the opportunity to be the first. Chair Figaroa noted the fair in Anahola on May 3 -5 . Ms. Sadora stated that they offered the Commission a table if they wanted to be there, but she still needs to get more information about it. There will be other government agencies there. Commissioner Dela Cruz stated that she believed their intent was to create a similar event as the Waimea Town Celebration with food booths, crafts, and entertainment, including government agency displays . 8 VA2013 Master Files\Commissions\Open Space\Meetings\2013-4-11 Minutes Ms. Sadora stated that the Commission still needs to determine who will be attending. Vice Chair Figaroa questioned other opportunities that were discussed. Ms. Sadora stated that there was discussion on participating in the County fair. The surveys will be distributed and made available to all of the public libraries and neighborhood centers, but they did not discuss anything further. They decided to keep the dates ongoing so that as events come up, they will be able to participate. Vice Chair Figaroa suggested that every month they could target a different library and different community events. He learned that in the past, people may have wanted to attend meetings, but had to work. If they hold the input process through June, it would give them the rest of the year to complete the report. Commissioner Dela Cruz questioned the limit on Commissioners that would be able to attend each event. Deputy County Attorney Jung stated that two or more Commissioners, but less than a quorum, can discuss Board business as long as there is no agreement to vote. Under the new law, they can create a Permitted Interaction Group. They would need to identify the scope of responsibility and the scope of information gathering at a prior Commission meeting. All they can do is collect the information, not discuss the information, and bring it back in report form to the full Commission for discussion. The scope would need to be listed on an agenda, and if the group is approved, the Chair would appoint the committee members. Commissioner Hayashi noted that staff would also have to assist. She questioned the staff' s availability. Ms. Sadora noted that staff was not available for the Hanapepe Library event, but normally staff accompanies the Commission on any public event and helps with questions from the public . Vice Chair Figaroa noted that the County Fair is in August and would only give the Commission four months to complete the report. Realistically, they would need a six month period. He suggested targeting the last weekends of the month at public libraries. He prefers the libraries to give the air of a civilized and educated atmosphere. Commissioner Hayashi noted that not all libraries are open on the weekends. Ms. Sadora suggested a weekday evening when people are off work. Chair Figaroa suggested Wednesday nights since it is midweek. 9 VA2013 Master Files\Commissions\Open Space\Meetings\2013-4-11 Minutes Ms. Sadora suggested that the Commission plan dates and locations and if it doesn 't work out, staff will let the Commission know. The Commission agreed to check on the following dates and locations from 6 : 30 p.m. to 8 : 00 P .M. • May 15 — Waimea Library • May 29 — Koloa Library • June 12 — Lihue Library • June 26 — Kapaa Library • July 24 — Princeville Library Vice Chair Figaroa stated that it would be nice to be able to serve refreshments to promote a social environment. Ms. Sadora noted that in the past, the Commission attended community meetings that were held at neighborhood centers. She questioned if the commission would still be interested in working with the community associations or if they want to keep it separate . Vice Chair Figaroa stated that his concern is that if the associations have a regular agenda, they may end up being there all night. If they hold separate meetings, the associations can be invited to attend. Ms. Sadora stated that staff will follow up to see if the locations will work with the desired dates and will work on a public service announcement and advertisements. Commissioner Dela Cruz questioned if they would still be attending the Anahola Town Celebration. She noted that it will be on May 3 , 4, & 5 . Vice Chair Figaroa stated that if Commissioners would like to volunteer for other community events, that would be fine, but it would be up to the Commission. Ms. Sadora noted that there is only the Anahola Celebration aside from the community input meetings . Vice Chair Figaroa noted that on May 4 there will be a re-dedication of the Kilauea Lighthouse. Commissioner Nakahara stated that on May 5 is a Kilauea Celebration in the park. May 4 is the re-dedication of the lighthouse. The Anahola Celebration is on May 3 -5 . Commissioner Hayashi questioned if the Commission can divide themselves . Vice Chair Figaroa stated that he can attend the 4th and the 5th. They can also distribute the surveys to the associations to distribute to their network. He felt that the draft survey was 10 VA2013 Master Files\Commissions\Open Space\Meetings\2013-4-11 Minutes fine, but suggested adding the Commission ' s email address . He did not know of the community associations on the south and west sides . Commissioners Dela Cruz and Hayashi stated that they can distribute the surveys to the west side associations . Ms. Sadora stated that Commissioner Blake can distribute to the south side associations . Vice Chair Figaroa stated that he will distribute on the north shore. Deputy County Attorney Jung asked for clarification that only two Commissioners would be attending the public input meetings . If there will be any more than two Commissioners, they would have to create the scope to set up the group. For the libraries, if they want to hold a public meeting as a body, they would have to notice the meetings. Vice Chair Figaroa stated that he was envisioning the same process as in the past years with just two Commissioners . The Commission agreed that two Commissioners will be fine. Ms. Sadora noted that there will be two Commissioners plus staff. Vice Chair Figaroa requested that 50 surveys be mailed to each Commissioner for distribution. Ms. Sadora noted that she will be leaving tomorrow for the American Planners Association in Chicago. She will work on adding the email address and printing them. She noted that the Department is tight on staff time, as the support clerk is currently working between two Commissions, but they can have them ready by the April 24 meeting. Vice Chair Figaroa clarified that email address will be added to the surveys and they will each receive a bunch at the next meeting for distribution at the associations. Staff will also check to see that the evenings are available for the community meetings at the libraries . Ms. Sadora stated that if the dates are not available, they will take whichever dates are available and report back to the Commission. She will also work with the Mayor' s office on a public service announcement. Commissioner Nakahara suggested either 6 : 30 p.m. to 8 : 00 p .m. or 6 : 00 p .m. to 7 : 30 p .m. based on the libraries ' evening schedules. Ms. Sadora stated that we will reserve a 6 : 00 p .m. to 8 : 00 p.m. window. Vice Chair Figaroa stated that people will be more at ease if refreshments can be offered. 11 VA2013 Master Files\Commissions\Open Space\Meetings\2013-4-11 Minutes Discussion on island-wide list of accesses and cataloging access conditions. Commissioner Dela Cruz requested a deferral to the next meeting. Vice Chair Figaroa deferred this agenda item. Discussion on acquisition of land for open space preservation to create a buffer at Salt Pond Beach Park. • Resolution to Hawaiian Islands Land Trust Deputy County Attorney Jung stated that at the last meeting he discussed the possibility of arranging a conversation with the State. He does not know if it is under the jurisdiction of the Department of Agriculture. Once they determine which agency manages the property, they can arrange a meeting to see if they can establish a buffer zone through an executive order. The idea of the buffer was to alleviate drainage and dust mitigation for the salt pans. The property to the South East is under the jurisdiction of the Department of Transportation. It appears to the North and Northwest that it is under the Department of Agriculture that may have leases with some of the seed companies . Ms. Sadora noted that there are agricultural operations off of the main highway and the area has been cleared. She took photos from the highway to the beach park and from the cemetery. There is still distance between the agriculture and the beach park. Commissioner Hayashi stated that the seed company told her that they are creating a buffer zone so that they don't come all the way down, but she did not know the extent. Ms. Sadora stated that you can see the area that has been cleared on the makai side of the highway. The Commission received testimony from Wilma Holi. Ms. Holi suggested that someone be hired to do a title search. It is titled to Victoria Kamamalu from river to river and the salt pans are all crown lands . Vice Chair Figaroa questioned if a title search has been initiated. Deputy County Attorney Jung stated that the title records on the books, aside from the seeded and crown land issue rests with the State of Hawaii . How it interfaces with certain claims that certain individual Hawaiians may have is still an issue that would be reserved for the Courts. Until there is a quiet title claim that is lodged against the State, as of now it is State property. 12 VA2013 Master Files\Commissions\Open Space\Meetings\2013-4-11 Minutes Ms. Holi stated that the County should initiate the quiet title claim so that she can respond. Deputy County Attorney Jung stated that it is a very complicated issue. In looking at quiet title actions, only people with interest in the land can assert such claims. The County doesn' t have an interest in land to assert any quiet title action. It is potential for an issue with the individual Hawaiian family as well as the State to engage. Ms. Holi stated that County is making decisions on the land which creates issues; they are making decisions on issues they do not have jurisdiction. Vice Chair Figaroa questioned quiet titles. Deputy County Attorney Jung stated that if someone wants to challenge the ownership of the piece of property, they can institute a claim called quiet title. Essentially they are quieting or silencing any challenge to the title. Vice Chair Figaroa asked for clarification that the individual who would initiate the quiet title would need to have a vested interest in the land and if the Commission shouldn't be discussing buffer zones if there is an issue. Deputy County Attorney Jung stated that if we acquire an executive order from the State and we have an interest in the land, the family who claims ownership of the land could raise a claim against the County. Vice Chair Figaroa stated that the process would be to first acquire interest in the land. Then the claimant or the County could initiate the quiet title process . Deputy County Attorney Jung stated that the County wouldn 't necessarily initiate the action because they would be acquiring the property from the State who the County thinks is the owner of the property. Someone who wants to challenge the vesting of title can raise it in the Circuit Court. Vice Chair Figaroa questioned if it would be putting the County at a liability because they would be getting involved in something they already know is not secured; they would be making a deal with someone who doesn 't necessarily have official title. Deputy County Attorney Jung stated that it has been going on since 1878 . The Commission can weigh it into their decision on whether they want to pursue a property because of a lingering issue. As of now, there have been no successful claims for quiet title against the State of Hawaii. Ms. Holi stated that there was a project in Kapalawai that the Robinsons did not have quiet title. 13 VA2013 Master Files\Commissions\Open Space\Meetings\2013-4-11 Minutes Deputy County Attorney Jung stated that his understanding was that there were kuleana issues within Robinson' s land, but it is a separate issue. It is a complicated set of laws. He referenced a book by John Van Dyke "Who Owns the Crowned Lands". It still remains an unresolved issue that he is not qualified to go in depth on. Vice Chair Figaroa clarified that to our knowledge the State has jurisdiction. If they County would like to acquire that land to create a buffer zone, they would work with the State. Commissioner Lydgate stated that he can see why the Commission is being asked to step back and why the County doesn't have a master plan. He noted that they are all feeling the frustration. Ms. Holi stated that when it comes to quiet title she would rather be the defendant than the plaintiff. Vice Chair Figaroa stated that it will definitely weigh into their decision. He questioned the public ' s main concern with the beach park. Ms. Holi stated that one group will say one thing and another will say something else. At one time the park could accommodate a camping area. It no longer can. The camping has to be relocated elsewhere. She goes to the park twice a day. During the day hours, carloads of tourists visit Salt Pond Beach Park. The parking lot is overcrowded just with tourists . Then there are campers who have taken command of the other section of the park and 3 or 4 pavilions including the main pavilion. Vice Chair Figaroa stated that the public' s biggest concern is to remove the camping near the salt pans. Ms. Holi stated that the cats were rounded up, but cats are clean compared to the humans. At night the humans don't want to walk to the bathroom. That is one of the issues. The camping area has expanded. There is every day usage 24/7 . Then there are tourists that look at the eye sore when they enter the park. Vice Chair Figaroa questioned if there is a community association taking charge of the park. Ms. Holi stated that it is family from Hanapepe. In her mind, a camp ground is temporary, but campers are being allowed 24/7 . That creates a problem. Sometimes they spill over into the area of the west side restroom and the pavilions. Some campers camp away from the groups. Commissioner Lydgate thanked Ms. Holi. He noted that there were homeless people at Lydgate Park after the hurricane . The County arranged to make it a County camp site and they have all the problems that are at Salt Pond. He agreed that there should be a separate campsite 14 VA2013 Master Files\Commissions\Open Space\Meetings\2013-4-11 Minutes mauka, but it is sensitive because of the sovereignty issues and seeded lands . That is what needs to be resolved. Ms. Holi noted that it is a nice, safe area for families to take their children, but there are activities that should not be allowed. There are campers on one end and drinkers on the other and it gets overwhelming. Commissioner Lydgate noted that those issues are also at Lydgate Park. They have friends of Kamalani Playground, and they received $6 from the Weinberg Foundation. They made the facilities handicap accessible, and they put in the bike path. There needs to be help from outside. It can be done, but it needs to be organized. Vice Chair Figaroa questioned the Resolution to the Hawaiian Islands Land Trust. Commissioner Hayashi noted that it was an idea following the workshop by Jennifer Luck. COMMISSION EDUCATION Status update regarding_upcoming_public access workshop. Presentation by Planning Department regarding conditions, dedications, and entitlements through Subdivision and Special Management Area processes . This item was deferred to the next meeting. NEXT MEETING DATE AND AGENDA TOPICS FOR DISCUSSION Vice Chair Figaroa noted that the next meeting will be on April 25 . The deferred items will be on the next agenda. Commissioner Blake will be discussing alternate accesses to Kukuiula Bay and Ms. Kallai will be discussing Kaakaaniu. Deputy County Attorney Jung noted that the Chair needs to maintain control of the meeting. If there is going to be a PowerPoint, there should be a request in advance so staff can make arrangements to have the equipment set up. It is up to the Chair to determine the agenda, but the public should at least provide a heads up so it can be properly listed on the agenda as well as arrangements for the equipment. Ms. Sadora clarified that all unfinished business items will be continued on the next agenda and Ms . Kallai ' s presentation will be added. She noted that Mr. Kallai requested consideration for Kilauea Falls to be listed on the agenda. 15 VA2013 Master Files\Commissions\Open Space\Meetings\2013-4-11 Minutes Deputy County Attorney Jung stated that is an issue for the Planning Commission. Mr. Somers is asking for an additional dwelling unit and barn on an already existing relatively large home. Mr. Somers granted a 145 conservation easement to the Land Trust so there is a conservation easement for the majority of the property. The Kilauea Neighborhood Association is trying to acquire access to the falls. It is a heated issue before the Planning Commission. Vice Chair Figaroa stated that he would prefer to let the Planning Commission handle it. The Commission agreed. ADJOURNMENT On the motion by John Lydgate and seconded by Linda Dela Cruz to adjourn the meeting, the motion carried by unanimous voice vote. Vice Chair Figaroa adjourned the meeting at 3 :21 p.m. Respectfully submitted by: Duke Nakamatsu, Support Clerk 16 VA2013 Master Files\Commissions\Open Space\Meetings\2013-4-11 Minutes