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HomeMy WebLinkAboutKauai Humane Society FY2013-2014 DEPARTMENTAL BUDGET CALL-BACKS 04-23-2013 Kaua`i Humane Society (aa) Page 1 The departmental budget call-backs reconvened on April 23, 2013 at 11:05 a.m., and proceeded as follows: Kauai Humane Society Honorable Gary L. Hooser Honorable Ross Kagawa Honorable Nadine Nakamura Honorable Mel Rapozo Honorable JoAnn A. Yukimura Honorable Jay Furfaro, Council Chair Excused: Honorable Tim Bynum Chair Furfaro: We are back from our recess. We will be starting with the Kaua`i Humane Society (KHS) until 12:30 today. This is a re-call, call-back, and I would like to first see, it is 11:05 a.m. Is there anyone in the audience that would like to testify? Please come right up. There is a little blue switch on the end of the microphone, if you press down, and you start by introducing yourself. I will give you six (6) minutes, at three (3) minutes I will tell you are halfway there. There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony. BASIL SCOTT: I am Basil Scott and I have previously submitted written testimony. I am giving this oral testimony to amplify certain points and somewhat extend what I submitted. Also, I have given both this and the previous testimony to the E-mail address. I support the full mission of Kaua`i Humane Society and this includes dogs, cats, horses, and other animals and many citizens feel the same including Veterinarians and many people I have talked to over the past years. However, today I want to focus on cats. In the United States (U.S.) cats represent over fifty percent (50%) of the pet population. It is fifty-two percent (52%) based on a number of data reports that are out there. Based on numbers that were previously submitted in the Kauai Humane Society testimony, about the same percentage appears to apply to Kaua`i. So, just over fifty percent (50%). Kaua`i Humane Society ensures that cats are registered, spayed or neutered, and given vaccination shots and the registration consists of the implementation of a chip which guarantees that if an animal is ever lost, they can be returned to rightful owner. These activities guard against diseases. Hook worm and round worm are diseases carried by all animals including cats and they can affect humans as well as other animals. Now, the activities that KHS performs also helps to control the cat population on Kauai. Last year there were over three thousand (3,000) unwanted cats that were euthanized. There is a large problem, I would say, with the cat population. It costs the Kaua`i Humane Society a lot of money to perform these euthanasia services. For every one hundred (100) breeding cats up to one thousand eight hundred (1,800) kittens can be born in one year. This is kind of a geometric population growth and it is just based on the fact that cats tend to have around six (6) kittens per litter. The math is, if you have three (3) liters of six (6) kittens per year, plus the first litter that is born will have enough time to have its own litters of six (6) kittens, you end up with up to.thirty-six (36) kittens per pair -, 04-23-2013 Kaua`i Humane Society (aa) Page 2 of cats. Then, in one hundred (100) cats you have on average fifty (50) pairs and so we have one thousand eight hundred (1,800) cats resulting from one hundred (100) cats. Anything that is done that would reduce the ability of Kaua`i Humane Society to control the cat population could very quickly have a very severe adverse effect on stray cats and other unwanted cats. Chair Furfaro: Scott, that is your first three (3) minutes. Mr. Scott: Thank you. You can see that the controls that we have, which is what the Kaua`i Humane Society does, are very important and the controls are that the Kaua`i Humane Society requires that any cat that they give away is spayed and neutered as well as registered. I was concerned when I heard Councilmember Rapozo suggest that we only focus on dogs because I see that this budgetary impact could affect how the cat population is controlled on Kaua`i and this could affect the health and welfare of our County as well as put stress on volunteer organizations, which I represent one of, that helps deal with this problem. I was further concerned about the legal issue that was raised having to do with Hawai`i Revised Statutes (HRS) 143-16. I will close my comments with just a couple of comments on Hawai`i Revised Statutes 143 and all of the paragraphs in there. 143-16 requires that the County contract with Kaua`i Humane Society pursuant to the authorization provided in 143-15. 143-15 provides for the seizure and impounding of all unlicensed dogs and then there are several subclauses, to that 143-15. However, all of Section 143, and this includes 143-15 and 143-16, are modified by the clause of 143-2.5 which reads, `nothing in this Chapter shall be construed as a limitation on the authority of Counties to regulate including by licensure animals other than dogs. Since it says "including by licensure," that clearly implies that non-licensing regulations also applies. I think it is important for whoever does the legal analysis to deal with the fact that it is not just licensing, but any means of regulation and, to me as a citizen, it would seem that the activities at Kaua`i Humane Society does, which include electronic regulation as well as spaying and neutering to help limit population growth, are important regulatory activities that promote the health and welfare of the entire County of Kaua`i. Thank you very much. Chair Furfaro: Mr. Scott, first, let me apologize to you. I thought your first name was Scott. Your first name is Basil? Mr. Scott: That is correct and I always say I have been called much worse, so thank y you. Chair Furfaro: Let me ask you, are you an Attorney? Mr. Scott: No, sir. Chair Furfaro: Would you know the HRS that you quoted was passed in 1953 in the Territory of Hawai`i? Mr. Scott: I know that and I know that the last update of any of these laws is on the order of twenty-five (25) years ago. So, they are quite old. 04-23-2013 Kauai Humane Society (aa) Page 3 Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much. Mr. Rapozo, you have a question? Mr. Rapozo: Thank you, Mr. Chair and thank you Mr. Scott for being here today and your testimony. Did you watch the last presentation? Did you actually watch the presentation on television? Mr. Scott: Yes, I watched it on the web broadcast. Mr. Rapozo: Because I did not suggest that we would not fund the cats. I have been getting a lot of hate E-mail and I just want to make sure that the public understands that there is a concern and you bring up 143-2.5, which is clear. The County has the right to regulate every animal, any animal. But there is a State Procurement Code as well. The State law mandates that we contract with the Humane Society to take care of the dogs, that is a given. There is no procurement required. Anything beyond that, yes, we have the right to regulate. We have the right to fund pretty much anything that we want. But we cannot bypass the Procurement Code. That was the gist of my discussion at the last meeting. I do not know how it got misconstrued that the Chair and myself are pushing that we cut funding. What I advised and requested from the Director of Finance was that when we redo the contract, we make sure we do the contract within the compliance of the State Procurement Code. If, in fact, we want to pursue services for other animals that would have to go out through the proper competitive bidding process. That is all I said. But for some reason I am getting all of these E-mails that I hate cats and I am discriminating against cats. I expect that. I get that all the time. You mentioned horses. I am not sure if you spoke to the Executive Director or not, but I can tell you and you can go ask her, as we left that day, I highly suggested to her and to Ms. Elizabeth Fraitis to submit the claim to the County. I believe that the County owes that money because the County required them to house the horses. I am not trying to run away from what we owe. I just want that to be clear. Your E-mail prior to this one, you had stated some things that you would do and that is fine. You have every right to do that. But I would encourage you that if there is a question about the intent of the Council, that you ask because I think that— and I said this at the last meeting, what the Kaua`i Humane Society does is very helpful. But it is getting to the point now that it is getting very expensive and like I asked the Director of Finance, there comes p o es at point, at what point is it better for the taxpayers, is it more effective and efficient to do it in-house? That is not a statement against the Humane Society. It is a statement of fiscal responsibility. There comes a breaking point, we are there, right? That we are struggling for money right now and we want to continue the relationship. But if it gets to the point we cannot afford it then we definitely have to be looking for ways that we can address all the animal needs on the island. I appreciate your input. Mr. Scott: Could I make a comment? Chair Furfaro: Go right ahead. Mr. Scott: I am glad that you are supportive. I do think it is very important and I think one of the points I was trying to make is that it is one of these 04-23-2013 Kauai Humane Society (aa) Page 4 "pay me now or pay me later" deals because the population of cats are very fertile as a population. So, if controls are relaxed for even a fairly short time, you can very quickly have a large population growth which then you end up paying more dollars for over a long period of time. I think it is encouraging to know that you are supportive and if changes are being made in the current procedures, it is just important that there is never a time, a six (6) month time or one (1) year time where services decline somewhat because then these very potent population dynamics will take control and we will end up paying more in the long run. That is my opinion. Mr. Rapozo: Just one (1) last thing. Chair Furfaro: Go right ahead. Mr. Rapozo: Last year we funded feral cat funding. I was a huge supporter of that. I think the record is clear and I do not want the record to be distorted. But I think the public also needs to know that if you look at the proposed budget, and these are just a spreadsheet that was compiled of the cuts that are being experienced here on Kaua`i, social cuts. I talked about it involving the Meals on Wheels, almost one hundred thousand dollars ($100,000) to limit funding for our seniors' meals and we have seventy-five thousand dollars ($75,000) being reduced for our treatment — Sex Assault Treatment Center and Family Violence Shelter. These are the realities of life Mr. Scott, that we have to deal with here on this table. Seven (7) of us have to figure out where is that balance and I am not saying that cats are less important than humans. But there has to be a balance and that is the struggles that we have to deal with every single day and we deal with many special interest groups out there that are calling for animals or for victims of domestic violence or whatever. There are tons of requests for funding and our funding is being reduced. I just hope you understand our predicament. I wish we could write the check, buddy. Like I said, if we had the money we would write the check. We do not have it and we have to figure out a way to make it happen with the least impact to our taxpayers. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Chair Furfaro: You are welcome. Scott, I just want to know — there I go. Basil, I like that herb, especially making a nice mango vinaigrette with a little basil in it and nice pesto as well. I just want to make sure that we are all squared because I got caught up in this piece too and I was not even here. This is a budget session where we talk about numbers. Certain members wanted to talk a little bit more specifically about the cat issue. I want to talk about the numbers. Okay? What is economically feasible for us? You are aware that we put aside thirty thousand dollars ($30,000) to do a kind of evaluation of the cat issues? Good, you are aware of that. I also wanted to say that I hope you got a response in my E-mail to you. Mr. Scott: I did, yes. Thank you. Chair Furfaro: Okay. So, I do not need to cover that anymore? This is a financial budget. We can always put a cat management plan and so forth in a new meeting and so forth. Your comments today were well received. Thank you very much. 04-23-2013 Kaua`i Humane Society (aa) Page 5 Mr. Scott: Thank you. Chair Furfaro: Anyone else in the audience willing to testify? Mr. Hooser: I had some questions for Mr. Scott. Chair Furfaro: One moment, Basil. Mr. Hooser: I just had a brief follow-up if I could because there was an outpouring of passion, if you would, for cats and animals after our last meeting and I think there was some misinformation. Like the Chair said, it is really about numbers, the conversation and a lot of E-mails that talked about us cutting the Humane Society's budget. "Please do not cut the budget, please do not cut the budget." But I wanted to make sure that you are aware and everyone is aware that the budget that was presented to us in the Mayor's budget was the same or similar, very similar, to last year's. Until today, I do not believe we actually got a budget and the budget request that we did get is, in round numbers, it was six hundred sixty thousand dollars ($660,000) what we paid last year and it is asking for upwards of over nine hundred ninety thousand dollars ($990,000) for next year. The Council, it is not a matter of us cutting the Humane Society budget. It is a matter of whether we are able to fund the increases, the significant increases, that no one else is doing? We are being asked to raise property taxes and everything else. But I think that discussion is about needs and wants. I think that is where that discussion got kind of misinterpreted, if you would, because it is a legitimate discussion to say what is our legal requirement? But what I think I am hearing from you, it think what I am hearing from you, correct me if I am wrong. You are saying that controlling the cat population is a need. It is a public health need. It is a community thing —is that? Mr. Scott: Yes. My opinion is that in terms of the public desire, it is probably equal for cats and dogs. It is about a fifty (50) /fifty (50) split and the people who own a cat or dog or both and the numbers of pets are pretty close to fifty (50) / fifty (50). The desire for the people of Kaua`i, in my opinion, is to see services for both. In terms of need, I believe that allowing for a large population of strays is a public health nuisance and hazard, particularly for hook worm and round worm. It is incumbent, I believe, to make sure that good controls regimes are in place. Based on the numbers, it would seem that we have somewhat effective control regime now. But also that it could be better. Mr. Hooser: Thank you very much. Thank you, Chair. Chair Furfaro: Any other questions for Basil? Thank you very much. Joe Rosa, you wanted to testify? You will get two (2) increments of three (3) minutes each for a total of six (6). JOE ROSA: Good morning members of the Council. Just about maybe two and a half(2%) years ago, I testified about dogs. They say the figure that was given at that time, they said it was about twenty thousand (20,000) dog owners on 04-23-2013 Kaua`i Humane Society (aa) Page 6 Kaua`i. That should be based on three dollars ($3) per head. It could be self-sufficient for the amount of revenue turned in. But I do not think there is an effort that goes around. When I was growing up as a young boy, the County needs to take time in April of after you had a chance to pay your bike tax, dog tax, car tax, it is supposed to be at the early part of the year. The County would come around, I think it was the Department of Public Works with a pickup truck with cages on them and they would go around looking for stray dogs and even if a kid would cry and cry, because they picked up his dog. They would not give it back to the parents, even if the parents came up with the money to pay for the dog tags. They would have to go down to the old Wailua jail and pick it up over there. They did not have a Humane Society then and you had to come with the money to show that you have the dog tag for the dog before they would release it. Now, with the amount of dogs that was mentioned, as I said two and a half (2%) to three (3) years ago, twenty thousand (20,000). That is a rough figure that was given and I remember it was mentioned time and time again by the Director and by one (1) of the members on our Council. As I say, with that amount of dogs on Kaua`i, they should be self-sufficient. Also, I do not know how you allow animals to go into a store. It is supposed to be a matter of health. I have seen dogs running around in Times and circling and circling. You wonder what they are going to do. If they are going to pee or do whatever they have to do. I notice at times they do not even have a tag. Is that an unlicensed dog or what? Those are kind of things that still go on, that animals are running around without having a license paid for. Who is doing the enforcing? Is the Game Warden supposed to be enforcing that? Who? The Police? Who? The question remains. There is not a sound total proof that these animals are paying their tax so that the revenue can go to the Humane Society for their operations Chair Furfaro: First three (3) minutes, Joe. Mr. Rosa: Thank you, Jay. Secondly, now, they talk about being inhumane when you deal with stray cats by trapping them or poisoning them. But I would like to ask members of the Council and the Humane Society, what is happening to all the green Macaws that used to roost in the trees out front here in the County? I used to pass here in the evenings and you could hear nothing but chatter of those birds. Those homeless people will not sleep on the benches because there is too much poop that those birds would do their thing when they are in the trees. Secondly, I do not see the pigeons at Wal-Mart in the front of the road waiting for a handout. It seems that some people or somebody is poisoning those birds. Come by the County Building some evening and you do not hear the green Macaws that are chattering and everything. They fly in flocks from here in the morning and in the evening coming back from the Hanama`ulu area. So, something has been done. They talk about doing away with the cats. Well, let us be realistic. If they are going to do it to the birds, which is inhumane, I think it is just as inhumane with the birds as it would be for the cats. Those are the kind of things that I leave with thought for you to think about, to look into and see that I do not see no reason why they cannot go ahead and get rid of some of those cats with destroying the natural wildlife around here. The birds, the pheasants, and quail, and the things I used to see when I was young, we do not have it anymore. But cats are even here at night along my place and my neighbors do not have cats. Those are stay cats that come up from the valley or wherever. So, there is a population of stray cats that is running around. It is high time. Mel, you mentioned it, I would value a human life over a cat or a dog. Those are secondary pets that you get to 04-23-2013 Kaua`i Humane Society (aa) Page 7 accommodate a lonely person that lives alone or something. But I do not value a cat or an animal over a human life. A human life takes years. An animal, you can go to the pet shop and pick it up. A human being is conceived with love and true love. Thank you. Chair Furfaro: Thank you, Joe. Is there anyone else here who would like to testify on this item? No? Before we get too far in, and I will as the individual from the Humane Society, as we have referenced the HRS a few time. I am going to have it read for the record so that we understand the content which comes from the Territorial Legislature 1953. Could you please read the statement? YVETTE SAHUT, Legislative Analyst: Hawai`i Revised Statutes Section 143-15. Contracts for seizing and impounding dogs. Any County may contract with any society or organization formed for the prevention of cruelty to animals, or similar dog protective organization, for the seizure and impounding of all unlicensed dogs, and for the maintenance of a shelter or pound for unlicensed dogs, and for lost, strayed, and homeless dogs, and for the destruction or other disposition of seized dogs not redeemed as provided in this Chapter. The County may prescribe in the contract the manner in which the work is to be done by the society or organization and it may also direct the disposition to be made of all dogs seized pursuant to this Chapter. Further Section 143-16, Contract between County of Kaua`i and Kaua`i Humane Society. Pursuant to the authorization provided in section 143-15 the County Council of the County of Kaua`i shall contract with the Kaua`i Humane Society, an incorporated nonprofit association organized under the laws of the State for the prevention of cruelty to animals, upon the subject matters contained in Section 143-15 and shall appropriate the moneys collected by the Director of Finance of the County of Kauai under Section 143-3 for use by the Kaua`i Humane Society. In addition to the matter contained in Section 143-15, the Kaua`i Humane Society may expend funds turned over by the County to construct a dog pound on Kaua`i; provided that the County Council shall first approve the plans for the construction and location of the dog pound. Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much and if you can make a copy of that available to all the members I would appreciate it, and also for those in the audience and media that we keep referencing this 1953 Legislative Act. Would you see that they have the appropriate copies? Also, a little bit of history going through this is, it is to be noted that specifically an amount was allocated by way of grant from the Council. In 2000 there were some concerns that were brought to the Council regarding accountability for the Kaua`i Humane Society. In addition to the five hundred thousand dollars ($500,000) that was appropriated then, an additional amount was also allocated for nineteen thousand seven hundred dollars ($19,700) so that the Kaua`i Humane Society could, in fact, perform their annual audit. Another specified amount was set aside for spray and neutering services. For that period of time, there was still controversy from the Kauai Veterinarians who felt there was some competitive profiling here with them having the County earmark the Humane Society for spay and neutering. I would also like to say from that five hundred thousand dollars ($500,000) allocation to the Kaua`i Humane Society, over the years the amounts have increased to five hundred ninety thousand dollars ($590,000), six hundred one thousand dollars ($601,000), six hundred fifty-five thousand dollars ($655,000), and at present day, the six hundred sixty thousand dollars ($660,000). That is given in the way of a grant. When it originally started, it was an itemized staffing guide that has now grown to 04-23-2013 Kaua`i Humane Society (aa) Page 8 almost twelve and a half (121/)12.5 full-time equivalents for the Humane Society. I will pass this history out as well so that you have it. On that note, we have friends here from the Humane Society. Please come right up. While you are making your way up, I would like to say to you, that I have gotten through the Administration, your last June 30th ending 2012 audit. I have also gotten an estimated wage and tax benefits schedule. I have also received the last quarterly report that was sent to Wally Rezentes and then today, William, I think you folks passed out two (2) versions of your budget and when we get to that, I will let you go through the narrative to the members. But on that note, I want to recall when I took a break from the last meeting, I wanted to focus on the financial pieces. Thank you very much for responding to that. Thank you very much. Okay, the floor is yours for any type of presentation you are making and these two (2) last financial pieces you tell us which one you want us to follow, depending on the strategy. PENNY CISATRO, Kaua`i Humane Society Executive Director: The one that would be most helpful to start with initially is the one that has the middle column that says, "dog only expenses." If we are going to focus on just dogs primarily for the moment, that was handed to you this morning. So, the total operating expense for us to provide the same services that we have been providing for just dogs would be seven hundred seven thousand fifty dollars ($707,050). When we discussed the last time that I was here, I asked if the Council would be interested in looking at a proposal from us to provide recommendation for fees for service. If we do incorporate the fee for service, we estimate that we could bring in approximately one hundred twelve thousand dollars ($112,000) in revenue to offset that cost to take the cost to do dogs only to the five hundred ninety-five thousand dollars ($595,000) that the Council has already — that is already available or has been submitted in the budget by the Director of Finance. That enables us to maintain the sixty-five thousand (65,000) that has been granted previously for the Spay/Neuter Assistance Program. We have provided, on request, the cost for us to provide the Animal Control Program as well as what the cost, the net cost, of the County program for dogs is for the Humane Society and that incorporates all of the services that are provided for dogs. In the proposal for the seven hundred seven thousand dollars ($707,000), that has taken the Full Adoption Program. that will be funded by the Humane Society, that takes the entire Foster Care Program for dogs and that will also be funded by the Humane Society. This is strictly taking in, handling the spray dogs, and at the end of four (4) days, and I will explain where we get the four (4) days, they become the financial responsibility of the Humane Society and are no longer the financial responsibility to the County. In looking at the four (4) days, the mandate is that they need to be held forty-eight (48) hours if they are unlicensed for the owner to come in and claim. So, not counting the day that the animal arrives at shelter because they arrive at various times throughout the day. They will be held two (2) days, the forty-eight (48) hours, and then on the fourth day, they will be dispositional and they would either at that time be euthanized or made available for adoption whereby the cost of the animal becomes the Humane Society's responsibility. That is how we arrived at four (4) days. The spaying and neutering and any preparation of the animal for adoption becomes the cost of the Humane Society and is not a cost County. So, that would include the spaying and neutering of the animal, the heartworm testing of the animal, and micro chipping confidant animal. The Humane Society is only looking at the Stray Dog Program 04-23-2013 Kaua`i Humane Society (aa) Page 9 for four (4) days. If an animal comes in and it is wearing identification we are required by Ordinance or by State Statute to hold the animal for nine (9) days and make attempts to contact the owner. Given the volume of animals that come in that are held past the four (4) days, it is hard to say what that percentage is going to be. It is also difficult to say what percentage are going to be part of a cruelty case and be held for an extended period of time. But we have focused on holding for four (4) days and that is what we are charging the County. That is the presentation for the Dog Program. Do you have any questions on the Dog Program? Chair Furfaro: Questions for the Dog Program? Vice Chair and then Mr. Rapozo, Ms. Nakamura: Thank you very much for a concise presentation. I wanted to ask, what is the current... Ms. Cistaro: I am sorry. Ms. Nakamura: What is the current disposition date right now? What is the past practice? Ms. Cistaro: Past practice is about five (5) to seven (7) days, so that would be decreasing. We do allow for whom found a stray animal at the end of the forty-eight (48) hours or seventy-two (72) hours, if they are interested in adopting that animal, to adopt that animal. But it averages between five (5) and seven (7). Ms. Nakamura: What was the forty-eight (48) hour milestone? What occurs at that time? Ms. Cistaro: That is outlined in the State statute that they are held for forty-eight (48) hours as a stray for the owner to come in and redeem, unless it is wearing identification and then it stipulates that the animal has to be held for nine (9) days. If it is licensed or has a microchip, that we can trace an owner and we are required to take reasonable means to contact the owner and we send a letter and phone call. It depends on what method we have. Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo and then Mr. Kagawa. Mr. Rapozo: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for being here today. On your middle column "dog only expenses", the projection, the salary is three hundred eighty-five thousand dollars ($385,000). How many employee areas dedicated to the Dog Program? Ms. Cistaro: Four (4). Mr. Rapozo: This is not benefits? This is just wages? It comes out to thirty-two thousand one hundred fifty dollars ($32,150) a month? 04-23-2013 Kauai Humane Society (aa) Page 10 Ms. Cistaro: And that is the Animal Care Staff, the Customer Service Staff that are taking all of the phone calls, dispatching the Officers, doing the License Program, the Lost and Found Program and Redemption Program of those strays. Then there are the Animal Control Officers and then there are Veterinarian Technicians. There is a break down in your packet of the staffing that goes along with that. Did you have that? Mr. Rapozo: The question that I asked for many years is to see a breakdown of... Ms. Cistaro: We have that information. Mr. Rapozo: Okay. well, I did not get it. Ms. Cistaro: Sorry. Mr. Rapozo: I just got it so I am looking at it now. It is showing eleven (11) full-time equivalents. So, is it a percentage? Ms. Cistaro: Yes it is. Mr. Rapozo: Do you have the percentage? Ms. Cistaro: It is next to the title where it says full-time equivalent. If you go down to the bottom — well, attached to each name is what percentage is assigned to the program and there is also one for the Humane Society that I am not sure is in front of you. Mr. Rapozo: If I read this correctly, the four (4) Animal Care Taker Technicians, they are fully funded by the County money? Ms. Cistaro: Yes, sir. Mr. Rapozo: And they do not participate in any other work for the Humane Society, County Y� J w ork? Ms. Cistaro: Correct. Then the Humane Society has five and a half(51/2) full-time Animal Care Technicians for their function. Mr.Rapozo: I think, Mr. Chair, this is where you talked before over the years where it has grown. When the original contract, I believe, was created was for the Humane Society to do what traditionally was done by the County. Obviously, the scope has grown. I mean they have got a great facility, and receptionist, and the County never provided those things in the past. It is a good thing. But it costs money. I think that explains the increases in the costs. So, your Administration, this is broken down, again, twenty-eight percent (28%) of your salary is paid for by the County money? That is how I am reading it correctly? 04-23-2013 Kaua`i Humane Society (aa) Page 11 Ms. Cistaro: Yes, sir. Mr. Rapozo: Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you for getting this. This may be six (6) years since I tried. I appreciate it. Ms. Cistaro: Did you want a copy of the Humane Society's break down of their staffing because the Humane Society is maintaining 24.39 employees in addition to the amount that the County is funding. Mr. Rapozo: That would help. Ms. Cistaro: We do have a variety of other programs that the County will not have any participation in financially. However, the County will benefit from those programs. Mr. Rapozo: Thank you. Chair Furfaro: Mr. Kagawa, you have the floor. Mr. Kagawa: Thank you. I am a dog lover. I have a dog in my family for basically all of my life. In fact, my wife is begging me to pick up a dog that she currently likes. Ms. Cistaro: Well, we can help y ou with that. Mr. Kagawa: I think she knows which one and it is to be a playmate because I think my dog is quite lonely. Ms. Cistaro: We can help you with that. Mr. Kagawa: So, it is hard not to be nice to you. I have a question about how many dogs, and I was looking at this figure, how many dogs do we see a day that come in, strays? Ms. Cistaro: It is difficult to average because one day you can get three (3) different litters of puppies and get twenty (20) puppies and then the next day you have two (2). It varies. We average, seasonally, Spring and Summer are much busier than the Fall and the Winter. We can average having in the shelter at any given time, for just stray animals, twenty-five (25), fifteen (15), twenty-five (25), thirty (30). Mr. Kagawa: Well, do we also receive a lot of unwanted puppies? Maybe they are not purebred, like poi dogs. Do we have a lot of those that say we cannot find homes for them and they bring a lot of them in? Ms. Cistaro: When we look at the first nine (9) months of this year, sixty-nine percent (69%) of the animals coming in are stray with the thirty-one 04-23-2013 Kaua`i Humane Society (aa) Page 12 percent (31%) being owner surrendered. It is a higher population of strays than owner surrendered animals. But yes there are... Mr. Kagawa: The strays are brought in by just the public? Ms. Cistaro: The public finds them. Actually a lot of tourists find the strays and bring them in. But the Officers pick up stray dogs in the field as well. It is a mix of... Mr. Kagawa: The Officers are notified by people in the community that call you? Ms. Cistaro: Typically, we get a phone call and it is answered by the Customer Service Staff and then they dispatch the Officer while they are out in the field. Mr. Kagawa: When you get a stray or any dog turned in, your policy is to keep the dog for how many days? Ms. Cistaro: On average we are holding the strays about five (5) days. Mr. Kagawa: What happens after five (5) days? Ms. Cistaro: A determination is made of whether or not we are going to make the animal available for adoption or euthanize the animal. Mr. Kagawa: I mean, it is pretty sad that it can only be for that short of time. But I guess it is a reality of finances. Ms. Cistaro: Well, actually in looking at our statistics, on average a stray animal is picked up within three point seven (3.7) days. It actually is a very good timeframe. Mr. Kagawa: I do not dispute the numbers. I mean, it seems like a lot of employees to allocate to a dog. But when I see the seven hundred and seven thousand dollars ($707,000), I think about just caring for my own dog and it is quite expensive. Ms. Cistaro: If we are there seven (7) days a week and so it averages that it is three (3) employees a day from 6:00 a.m. until about 6:00 p.m. So, that works out to be four (4) employees caring for the animals during the week. Mr. Kagawa: Just another comment. I really appreciated the audited financial statements. It provides us and we know these numbers are accurate and overall the facility. I grew up in Hanapepe, the Heights, and it is really close to the Salt Pond Humane Society and you have come such a long way and very positive and there is 04-23-2013 Kauai Humane Society (aa) Page 13 the animal park. I just want to commend you folks. You have really come a long way. I only hope that we can get more private donations because there is a lot of hotels that are doing great in Po`ipu and I just wish that they would open their hearts up a little bit and try and help out our animal population. Ms. Cistaro: Have you noticed that we were in the National news? We were in the Washington Post and an associated press took it National on the program transferring animals out of Kaua`i to Oakland, California. But a lot of it is utilizing the tourists for them to transport animals back to the mainland when they are going home. We are tapping into the tourist trade to help us. Mr. you.Kagawa: Thank ou. At a minimum, I want to make sure g that we comply with our law. If we look at the seven hundred seven thousand fifty dollars ($707,050), that would be your figure to comply with the HRS? Ms. Cistaro: Yes. But we are also recommending to the Council that we increase licensing fees and we implement a fee for service. Currently, if someone loses their dog, lets their dog run loose, whatever happens and we get their animal in, they are not required to pay to get the animal back. In essence, the County is funding irresponsible pet ownership by letting them come to the shelter sometime two (2), three (3), and sometimes four (4) times to get their dog that you have running loose. What we are asking or recommending is that there be a fee for the shelter to cover the cost of caring for their animal for them. Mr. Kagawa: That sounds like a fair plan. Ms. Cistaro: We have been discussing it with Amy about looking at the Ordinances. In doing that, we projected in the first year that we would be able to bring in least one hundred twelve thousand dollars ($112,000) to offset the cost of the contract to take it, for dog only, to that five hundred ninety-five thousand dollars ($595,000) and maintain the Spay/Neuter Assistance Program. Mr. Kagawa: Well, we are in a tight spot. We will do what we can. Like I said, I am confident that the private sector can continue to pick up the rest of the share. I think if it would be ideal if we could pick up the whole thing. But obviously, we are not in a position this year. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Chair Furfaro: William, let me ask a real quick question of you. The audit you provided to us, is this really a statement of financial activities? It is not a full blown audit? WILLIAM EARNSHAW, Kaua`i Humane Society Business Manager: Are you speaking of the audited report? Chair Furfaro: The report we got from CW &Associates. 04-23-2013 Kauai Humane Society (aa) Page 14 Mr. Earnshaw: Correct. That is what we receive from CW & Associates after they performed out audit. They perform an audit on an annual basis. Chair Furfaro: But it is really a report on relative statement of activities versus an audit. But thank you very much, it is very helpful. Mr. Hooser, did you have a question? Mr. Hooser: Yes, thank you. Just trying to get clear. There is a lot of moving parts here to the budget. I understand that we asked for the dog information to be separate. Ms. Cistaro: Yes. There is cat information that I am prepared to discuss as well. Mr. Hooser: In the budget you are operating on now, with the County funds, it was at six hundred sixty thousand dollars ($660,000), is that correct? Ms. Cistaro: Yes, five hundred ninety-five thousand dollars ($595,000) for the Animal Control Program and sixty-five thousand dollars ($65,000) for the Spay/Neuter Program. Mr. Hooser: Was there any differentiation between cats and dogs in that budget? Ms. Cistaro: No, because of the way that the contract is written. For the contract that we are currently in, it stipulates that we are to handle other animals, other small animals. That incorporated cats into that contract. The cost of our contract this year or the cost of the program this year was much more expensive than the five hundred ninety-five thousand dollars ($595,000). Mr. Hooser: The year we are in now, the County funded six hundred sixty thousand dollars ($660,000). Ms. Cistaro: Correct. Mr. Hooser: Okay, and that was for everything?� Ms. Cistaro: Yes. Mr. Hooser: The budget that the Mayor sent over for the upcoming year, was at five hundred ninety-five thousand dollars ($595,000), six hundred sixty thousand dollars ($660,000)? I think that was six hundred sixty thousand dollars ($660,000), the same you got last year? Ms. Cistaro: Yes. Yes. Mr. Hooser: Now, you are saying just for dogs. 04-23-2013 Kaua`i Humane Society (aa) Page 15 Ms. Cistaro: Just for dogs. Mr. Hooser: It is seven hundred seven thousand dollars ($707,000), plus you want to be able to charge money for the services that you described and then there are cats coming in a few minutes on top of this. Ms. Cistaro: Yes. Mr. Hooser: We are really looking at over nine hundred thousand dollars ($900,000)? Ms. Cistaro: Yes. Mr. Hooser: Plus you want to charge for services? Yes? Ms. Cistaro: Yes. Mr. Hooser: When last year for the same thing, we spent six hundred sixty thousand dollars ($660,000)? Ms. Cistaro: You spent six hundred sixty thousand dollars ($660,000). We did not. Mr. Hooser: Right. Why the disparity? Every other Department that has come in is getting less money and we are asking everyone to cut their services, trim costs, not hire people, not buy cars, and other things. This looks like it is a huge increase. So, why? Is there unexpected expenses? Is there some new information that caused the expenses of the Humane Society to go up from that three hundred thousand dollar ($300,000) figure? Why are you now asking the County to, in round numbers, come up with another three hundred thousand dollars ($300,000) or so? Ms. Cistaro: Well, first off, we are not a Department of the County. We are an independent contractor. We are not asked to cut services, cut staff, or cut programs. You are contracting with us to provide a service. The contract that the Humane Society is currently in with the County, asks for us to provide services not only dogs, but to all small animals. That includes cats. It is my understanding that the Humane Society has not been given an increase in the contract amount since 2009. I have been here maybe five (5), six (6) weeks so I am making some assumptions that expenses have gone up in the last five (5) years here, as they have everywhere else. Workers Compensation, health insurance for employees, those kind of things have gone up. The other point is that for years and years the Humane Society has picked up what the County has not paid for. To the point where the Humane Society no longer has reserves. So, even if we wanted to fund the cats this year as we have been doing in the past, we cannot afford to do so. There really is not an increase in the cost, it is just I am coming to the County and saying we cannot fund the cat portion of the program any longer. That has been in the contract and which is why approached a hed the County in March about negotiating this pp Y g g contract because we cannot provide the same level of service that we have been in contract 04-23-2013 Kaua`i Humane Society (aa) Page 16 with County to do any longer. We are still going to request that the County fund the cat portion of the program because of health and safety as well as some statutes that do apply to cat because they apply to animals across the board. Then there are just little things like who is going to pick the dead cats up in the street, what would you like the Humane Society to do when there is an injured cat laying in the street, or there is a nuisance with cats at the hotels? So, that is the answer, a long one. Mr. Hooser: I think I got it. You are basically coming to the Council saying that our funds are not sufficient to cover the cat program. Ms. Cistaro: Correct. We do not have the funds. Mr. Hooser: In round numbers the three hundred thousand dollars ($300,000) annual difference has been funded out of reserves? Ms. Cistaro: Out of our money. Mr. Hooser: So, that means that you have had money in the bank or is this is funded out of income that is no longer there because you have been paying this money and it did not happen or did it in one (1) year? Ms. Cistaro: No, it did not happen in just one (1) year. Mr. Hooser: So, it has been carried over. It is either income that you had that is not there anymore, or it is from when you had one million dollars ($1,000,000) in the bank, or you had a lot of money in the bank that you have been spending down over time? Ms. Cistaro: It is a lot of money in the bank that we have been spending down over time and then using donor money to fund the County program. Mr. Hooser: I think therein lays the problem for the County in terms of all of a sudden, we are being asked to come up with this money to fund services that we have been getting for a much reduced amount. You do not have to answer that. Ms. Cistaro: Well, I do want to say that there was a letter addressed to the Council last year that explained the two hundred sixty-five thousand dollar ($265,000) deficit that the organization had and was putting the County on notice at that time that the Humane Society could no longer continue to do that. So, this should not be a surprise. Mr. Hooser: It is a surprise to me because I was not here. Ms. Cistaro: Neither was I. Mr. Hooser: If you could provide me that letter, that would be great. 04-23-2013 Kaua`i Humane Society (aa) Page 17 Chair Furfaro: I can give you that letter, Gary. We have it on file. Mr. Hooser: Okay. I think I have a much better understanding now of the situation. It still does not create the money and as you know, the Administration asking us to raise taxes for all of these things and not even considering this extra three hundred thousand dollars ($300,000). So, that would mean all things being equal, we would raise taxes more or take money away from other areas of County services to satisfy it. Do you have a funding plan to increase funding above and beyond what you are asking? Do you have an emergency fundraising effort, someone going out and beating the bushes and calling donors or planning fundraisers? Ms. Cistaro: We do. We recently hired a Development Director that will be coming in mid May. We have high hopes for that person. Again, I have been here probably about six (6) weeks. I am looking at what all of our resources are and putting together a Fund Development Plan for the organization because we do, in fact, need to address our financial situation because we have also a piece of this budget that we have to account for as well. Mr. Hooser: My last question, you understand. I just want to get this out because people are watching. You understand that we are not being asked to cut — we are not considering as we sit here, I do not believe, cutting the Humane Society's budget. That is not something that we talked about. We are talking about whether or not we should increase it. That is the discussion we are having. I think from the public's perspective, I think it is important to get out. We have been getting a lot of things that do not cut the budget, do not cut the budget and we are being asked to consider a dramatic increase in the budget from our perspective anyway. Ms. Cistaro: Yes, and there will be a change to the contract, which is an agreement between the Humane Society and the County to provide services for small animals, which would include cats. So, there can or could be a dramatic decrease in service depending upon the choice of funding. Mr. Hooser: I understand. Thank you very much. Thank you, Chair. Chair Furfaro: Before we go any further, I am going to have records pull up that letter and I have been here consistently for twelve (12) years and there were a couple of things that were responded to with the Administration. For example, the detail that we were required to do by statute for dogs is the four hundred thirty thousand dollars ($430,000) you have detailed for us in the staffing guides, that you submitted to us and I want to thank you for that. We also added sixty-five thousand dollars ($65,000) for the spay and neutering. But we ended up getting to six hundred sixty thousand dollars ($660,000) because we understood that ongoing courtesies you were doing for us with cats and we funded an additional item in Capital Improvement Projects (CIP) for thirty thousand dollars ($30,000) just focused on cats. I want to make sure that we are all real well informed because nobody made a bad decision because they had too much information. 04-23-2013 Kaua`i Humane Society (aa) Page 18 I am going to get those copies as well. Secondly, I think Mr. Hooser's point is very, very well taken here. We are not starting off by cutting your budget. We are starting off by saying this is the amount that we had funded. Now, the question is we are going through a thing with our reserves as well, right? We want to make sure that you understand the six hundred sixty thousand dollars ($660,000) committed and, in fact there was a small increase in 2011. You referenced 2008, but 2011 there was a small increase, very small. I believe it was focused on having some extra money for you to do some studies and some solicitation. But I just want to make sure that we have that understood and also on the growth of your revenues, this proposal, if we gave you certain activities, I mean even licensing animals. That could bring you in a substantial amount of money. Do you have any idea of what amount you might have put in a pro forma like that? Ms. Cistaro: We are projecting—I have to put my glasses on. Chair Furfaro: I have the same thing. Ms. Cistaro: We are projecting, if we take over the licensing. I'! Chair Furfaro: Let us say we give you the licensing. Ms. Cistaro: And we were able to increase the cost of a license, we are projecting that we could bring in approximately eighty-one thousand two hundred fifty dollars ($81,250) and that is us taking over ,managing the entire program and taking it from the County. Chair Furfaro: Take on that responsibility for animal licensing for the County. Ms. Cistaro: We would take on the full cost and that expense is included in the contract moneys in the proposal that we would be administering the entire Licensing Program. Chair Furfaro: So, that is plus eighty-one thousand dollars ($81,000)just for discussion here. Ms. Cistaro: Well, that is part of the one hundred twelve thousand dollars ($112,000). Chair Furfaro: Yes, I understood that. Ms. Cistaro: Okay. Chair Furfaro: That is in there. That would be a shift from our Treasurer's Department to you folks. Ms. Cistaro: Yes. 04-23-2013 Kauai Humane Society (aa) Page 19 Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo, you have the floor. Mr. Rapozo: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Chair Furfaro: Excuse me, JoAnn has a follow-up to my comments, I guess. That was my comment, I asked her about the fee. How much it would be? You want to do a follow-up on fees? Ms. Yukimura: If I may. Chair Furfaro: You may have the floor. I will hold you back for a moment, Mr. Rapozo. Ms. Yukimura: The licensing would be the Administration so pet owners —it is only dogs that get licensed. Ms. Cistaro: Just dogs. Ms. Yukimura: They would get their licenses from you. But did you say it presumes a license increase? Ms. Cistaro: Yes. Ms. Yukimura: That has to be set by the Council. Ms. Cistaro: Yes. Chair Furfaro: Yes. Ms. Yukimura: Okay. So, you have an actual proposal about — there is only one fee level or it is for spay/neuter there is a lower fee? Ms. Cistaro: Yes. Ms. Yukimura: So, that presumes that the Council would raise the fees because I do not think we can delegate the fee-setting to you. Chair Furfaro: No, we cannot. Ms. Cistaro: We would make a recommendation to what we would like to see the fees and work with the County Attorney to develop that to come to Council. Ms. Yukimura: Okay, and that would be parts of the one hundred twelve thousand dollars ($112,000) that you would be able to raise for the Spay/Neuter Program? 04-23-2013 Kaua`i Humane Society (aa) Page 20 Ms. Cistaro: To offset the cost of the dog contract. Ms. Yukimura: Thank you. Thank you Councilmember Rapozo. Chair Furfaro: I do not get a thank you? Ms. Yukimura: Thank you, Chair. Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Mr. Rapozo: Well, I had a follow-up, too. Chair Furfaro: Go ahead, Mel. Mr. Rapozo: But ladies first, so that is fine. You mentioned earlier that when people come up to pick up their loose animals, they do not pay? Ms. Cistaro: They pay two dollars and fifty cents ($2.50) after the forty-eight (48) hours. If they pick up the dog within the first forty-eight (48) hours, there is no fee. Mr. Rapozo: But after forty-eight (48) hours? Ms. Cistaro: It is two dollars and fifty cents ($2.50) a day. Mr. Rapozo: I noticed in your financial statement your boarding quarantine and other services generated over four hundred thousand dollars ($400,000 in 2012. Ms. Cistaro: That is the boarding that we do for members and the quarantine is the direct release or the boarding for quarantine when animals are coming into Kaua`i. That is our business. That is one of our sources of revenue. That has nothing to do with the County contract. Mr. Rapozo: I know we had this discussion last week when I picked up my dog I got hit pretty hard with boarding and this was a while ago. I am not sure who controls that fee. Can you set that fee? Ms. Cistaro: No, that is set by State statute. The two dollars and fifty cents ($2.500 is what we are allowed to charge. Mr. Rapozo: So, we would need to change that statute as well? Ms. Cistaro: Yes, and it is within the State statute that allows for Counties to set those fees. 04-23-2013 Kaua`i Humane Society (aa) Page 21 Mr. Rapozo: We set the two dollars and fifty cents ($2.50) fee? Ms. Cistaro: No, that is set by the State. The State statute allows for the individual Counties to set whatever fees they choose and that is what we are recommending that the County do. Mr. Rapozo: And you are working with Amy on that, right, our County Attorney? Ms. Cistaro: Yes. Mr. Rapozo: We will follow-up with her. The other question which only makes sense and I know we had this discussion a while back and I got hate E-mails then and I will get it again. What is your position on licensing cats? Ms. Cistaro: I would highly recommend it. It is a very controversial subject. Mr. agree. Rapozo: I would a p g Ms. Cistaro: I think there are more cat owners than dog owners. Cat owners need to be held to the same standard that a dog owner does because what happens in an Animal Control Program is that the dog owners, by licensing their dogs, are then subsidizing the cat portion of your Animal Control Program. So, by having it fair and equitable across the board and everyone that enjoys the companionship of an animal is contributing to the animal control costs. I would highly recommend it. A lot of people are not going to agree with that statement. Mr. Rapozo: Well, they are going to hate you and me after tonight because we had, in fact, I had asked our staff, I guess a couple of years. I do not know if it has Honolulu. But somebody was entertaining the idea. Ms. Cistaro: I think it was O`ahu. Mr. Rapozo: It was O`ahu. So, I had started the processes to and it just went crazy. But if you look at the testimony that we are receiving today, and I think Mr. Kagawa is asking and talking to me this morning, saying that we do not have a loose dog problem considering we have loose dogs. But the bigger complaint is with loose cats. Ms. Cistaro: Yes. Mr. Rapozo: The bigger threat to public safety is with loose cats. Ms. Cistaro: Yes. 04-23-2013 Kaua`i Humane Society (aa) Page 22 Mr. Rapozo: It would make sense to me and again, you and I will be the most hated people tomorrow, that we start at least evaluating that licensing of cats. It makes sense. Ms. C i sta ro: Yes, it does. There are man y, many formulas to follow and there are ways to implement the program without there being as much hate mail as you might think. Mr. Rapozo: Oh, we will get them. I will tell you they will start tomorrow. But it will be a lot easier for me to say that I am supporting the Humane Society's Executive Director in that. Ms. Cistaro: Then Mr. Rapozo, I could say I was supporting you. Mr. Rapozo: But I mean, we have to do something to address that problem and just tossing a lot of money at it may help. But it does not really create that responsible ownership of cats like we do for dogs Ms. Cistaro: Yes. I know that we have not moved over to the cat portion of the presentation. However, we do return a number of stray cats, currently, to their owners. So there is a fee for service for those animals as well and while the number being redeemed is less than dogs, there is a revenue source of over eight thousand dollars ($8,000) coming in from charging the same fee for service and for board for cats as there is for dogs. Cats are the bigger problem in the community than dogs are, and they are much more robust in their breeding season than dogs are. As Mr. Scott pointed out, if we leave this unchecked just from a health and safety standpoint, County-wide, we will have a problem that is by far worse than what we are experiencing with the roosters, the chickens, and the pigs. Mr. Rapozo: Just one last question, Mr. Chair. Chair Furfaro: Go right ahead. Mr. Rapozo: We did get educated a cowl of years ago when we did the feral cat discussion and we were blessed with a lot of information. But my question is and I mean that. We were. It was great information that most of us, I can speak for myself, really had no clue. But the question that I have is are you aware of any other jurisdiction currently that require licenses for cats? Ms. Cistaro: Yes. Mr. Rapozo: If you could just provide me, not today, a list so we can do some research and find something that that might work for us. Ms. Cistaro: I would be happy to. a � 04-23-2013 Kaua`i Humane Society (aa) Page 23 Mr. Rapozo: I would appreciate that. Ms. Cistaro: I have had experience in implementing a cat licensing program. Chair Furfaro: Mr. Kagawa and then Ms. Yukimura. Mr. Kagawa: Looking at the financial statement, under the revenues line item, unrestricted contributions. Fiscal Year 2011, you have three hundred sixteen thousand dollars ($316,000). 2012 it went up about one hundred fifty thousand dollars ($150,000) to four hundred fifty-nine thousand nine hundred forty-nine dollars ($459,949), is that contributions donations maybe from the public? Ms. Cistaro: Yes. Mr. Kagawa: Just straight out donations? Ms. Cistaro: Yes. Mr. Kagawa: Do we have a projection what that number might be for 2013? Ms. Cistaro: I do not. Mr. Kagawa: Does your accountant have a total? We are almost done. We have got two (2) more months. Ms. Cistaro: Go for it. Mr. Earnshaw: Yes, I do have an estimate. First, I would like to point out those contributions I believe include both contributed goods, as well as dollars. For example, with the dog park a lot of the structures in the dog park, those materials were donated. It includes both materials as well as dollars. For the end of this fiscal year, we are looking at roughly around, I believe, projecting out around three hundred twenty thousand dollars ($320,000) in contributions. Mr. Kagawa: I do not see it in the footnotes as far as what that account includes. Normally, I think, in a financial statement you would have a breakout of construction materials and labor or whatever that was donated. Normally I think the unrestricted contribution line would pretty much be cash. But anyway, what about this "net assets release from temporary restrictions." What does that line represent? Three hundred fifteen thousand dollars ($315,000) last year. Net assets released from temporary restrictions. I am just curious. It is under the revenue item. I am not sure. I will read better. I guess, I understand when I am hearing that without that three hundred thousand dollars ($300,000), we may cut the cat service. But I am hoping that we can still continue to receive those cash contributions and we would like to give you basically, what that net 04-23-2013 Kaua`i Humane Society (aa) Page 24 amount would be because you are get something donations. Some of those donations could be allotted to the dogs and cats, right? Ms. Cistaro: There are programs that the Humane Society supports with its donations and we have twenty-four (24) staff members that we also have to raise funds to support. We have programs that we have in the community that we need to raise our own dollars to support. We cannot raise money to support a County program. Stray animals are not —while we want to provide care and housing for those animals, they are stray. They are a result of the community's irresponsibility. It becomes a County function and a County health, welfare, and safety issue. You are asking us to spend donor dollars to the Humane Society on what in other jurisdictions are a County function. Other islands are supported by the Counties for their cat population, their stray and feral cat population. The Humane Society is more than happy to provide social services within the community, Humane Education programs, Spay/Neuter Programs to help the community with their animals. But it is not our responsibility to provide animal control functions, that is the County's. Mr. Kagawa: I hear you. Like Mr. Hooser, it is my first year on the Council. But I have lived here since 1966. I know that we have had a stray cat problem ever since I remember knowing what a cat was. We have had a stray cat problem from the 1960s until now and I even adopted a cat because it was so pretty and I did not want to let it die. So, that was my first animal that I had, was a cat. But the thing that is hard is that I know you are coming out strong for your organization about the cats, about how irresponsible you think the County is. But what you need to understand is before you came on board, we were paying six hundred sixty thousand dollars ($660,000)and we were getting the service. The Council. as I know it, was not being threatened that the cat population will be neglected, you will have a lot of cat problems. Now in this fiscal year we are struggling with the thoughts of raising taxes and you are saying that we need to increase your budget by three hundred thousand dollars ($300,000). It is not an easy thing, not an easy request. It is not like the cat problem has appeared in one (1) year. We have had a cat problem from the 1960s. What you are telling us - we know there is a problem. We know what could be a problem. We are just trying to be fair in determining what is that number that you have. I understand donations are, to me, if you are short of money, you can use donations any way that you deem appropriate. If you deem building a bigger park for the people to let their dogs play in as a priority, then you will spend it there. If you deem cats to be a priority, you will spend the money, what I have leftover from donations on the feral cat problem. It is your job as an Executive Director to determine how you want to spend those moneys and donations . I am not saying that I am going tell you what to do. But in the end, I think the County is going to give you—the County Council, the Mayor, we are going to give you what we believe is fair and hopefully we will still take care of our cat problem. Ms. Cistaro: With all due respect sir, I agree that it is a surprise to the Council, the information that I am bringing. It was a surprise to me as well. I do know that the organization does not have the financial resources to fund the Cat Program. We do not have the money that we have had in the past to give to the County even with our donations. We will be using our donations as our operating revenue for the 04-23-2013 Kaua`i Humane Society (aa) Page 25 Humane Society programs this year. There is not the reserves that we have had in the past. Mr. Kagawa: I will leave it at this. If I look at your expenses, in 2011 your total expenses were two million one hundred seventy-two thousand dollars ($2,172,000). In 2012, and this is before you came on board, your expenses went up over two hundred twenty thousand dollars ($220,000) to two million four hundred thousand dollars ($2,400,000). In 2013, I guess you are projecting it to be pretty much the same. So, we have done a good between 2012 and 2013 of not going up too much. I think you project in 2014 to be pretty much the same. But it is a matter, too on your end, of watching the expenses. In 2011 and 2012, you did a similar job like the County. We grew too much, maybe and when we are in a recession, we have to stay away from those big ballooning expenses. I just wanted to point that out and just as we at the County need to watch our spending, I think you guys need to watch your spending, too in the future as we keep coming up and trying to make sure that we take care of all the cats and the dogs which we all love and we are all worried about. Thank you. Ms. Cistaro: I do know that, organizationally, we need to be more efficient in our spending. I am still learning the budget and will be in the process of putting together the 2014 budget for the organization. Mr. Kagawa: Thank you, I appreciate it. Ms. Cistaro: We are looking at our services, what we are able to provide, the staffing levels, and what we are able to provide with those or if we have to lay staff off as well. Mr. Kagawa: Hopefully it will not come to that. Ms. Cistaro: Hopefully it will not come to that. Mr. Kagawa: Thank you. Chair Furfaro: JoAnn, I will recognize you next. But let me make a housekeeping announcement. If it is okay with you folks, I would like us to keep going past 12:30 p.m. and take our lunch break at 1:00 and finish up the informational portion on the Humane Society. So, for the Administration, when we come back, we will come back at 2:00. Then we will do the finance portion and then followed by the closing of Economic Development CIP. On that note, you have the floor and we will only go to 1:00 if we need to. But we still have not talked specifically about cats yet. So, you have the floor, JoAnn. Ms Yukimura: Thank you. This has been a really interesting discussion. One of the things that I want to say at the outset is I am in great respect and admiration for you Penny, coming in five (5) weeks ago, was it and trying to figure all of this out. 04-23-2013 Kaua`i Humane Society (aa) Page 26 Ms. Cistaro: Thank you. Ms. Yukimura; I am guessing that you are not in a dissimilar position than Steve Hunt, who came in and even Ernie and the other team, who over the last few years have been discovering what Councilmember Kagawa has noticed. That there are a lot of parallels between the County and the Humane Society in terms of unknowingly using reserves to satisfy the Operating Budget and then coming to this big wall that we cannot continue to do this anymore. I wanted, at our first meeting, to have a policy discussion because this is all coming down to policy. It is the question of whose kuleana it is to do what things? I guess, I have been around too long. But I remember when the County used to perform the animal control services. The option for the Humane Society in a quid pro quo arm's length transaction of not doing the services, is for us to do the services or to find another organization to do the services. I would guess that if the County were doing this, it would probably be far more expensive. When we were doing it, it was pretty primitive, I have to say. We would have to have Administration over the services and so forth. I think the HRS was trying to, back in 1953, establish what a government kuleana was. At that time dogs may have been the concern. But as we have evolved over time, if you look at animal control and you have said that, Penny, that the statistics show that cats are as much of an animal control issue as our dogs or even more, perhaps. Ms. Cistaro: yes. Ms. Yukimura; If that is a public responsibility of local government, if animal control for health and safety purposes is, then arguably it is a County function and that is something that we are going to have to decide as a group. If it is a County function and we are asking your donors to pay for it, it would be like saying, "Members of the public could you make donations toward ours Solid Waste requirements or can you make donations towards our Roads Programs?" We really have to draw the lines carefully. I guess my question is that I would like to see what the cost of cat control is. Chair Furfaro: Can you proposed (inaudible). Ms. Yukimura: Excuse me. Ms. Cistaro: We do have that. If I can interject here, what we will be doing with this new proposal is we will be going to the donors and asking them for funding to help fund the adoption program, the Foster Program, our ability to treat sick and injured animals, all of that is coming out of the County portion of the funding. We are not asking the County to fund any of that, which is why we are stopping costs to the County after four (4) days. Then every animal becomes our responsibility to move forward with. So, that is what we will be asking the donors to fund. The Adoption Program, the treatment of the injured animals, the care for the animals past the four (4) day hold period from the County, as well as to fund the owner surrendered animals that are coming into the organization as well as enhancing a Spay/Neuter Program through the Humane Society in addition to the one that the County would be funding. We are going back to the donors to fund our programs. 04-23-2013 Kaua`i Humane Society (aa) Page 27 Ms. Yukimura: You are trying to draw a very clear line; right between the public responsibility for animal control and the humane services of keeping as many animals as you can from euthanasia? Ms. Cistaro: Yes. Ms. Yukimura: And trying to put them into homes where they can contribute to families and also be taken care of. Ms. Cistaro: Yes. Ms. Yukimura: That seems to me, I mean, we can discuss the line and where it should be. But to at first just acknowledge that there is a line. Ms. Cistaro: Yes. Ms. Yukimura: Is important for us determining our financial responsibilities and thank you. I see that you have submitted the cats portion and what is above the line, if you will, in terms of what is public responsibility for animal control and that is the number three hundred thirty-nine thousand nine hundred ninety-five dollars ($339,995)? Ms. Cistaro: Yes. Ms. Yukimura; Thank you. Chair Furfaro: Vice Chair, I will give you the floor. Ms. Nakamura: Yes. I am looking at your financial statement, statement of functional expenses. On page 4. I just wanted to — I know you have it all divided into different functions of the Humane Society, broken down by the Thrift Shop, your animal shelter, and management general fundraising. I was just wondering in the future, would it be possible to further break this down so that we can see what is the spay/neuter piece and what is the County piece so that we can ensure that the information that we received is audited? Ms. Cistaro: Yes, that is as equally to me. I am used to great detail in the budget and I am finding the previous budgets to be vague. So, yes. Ms. Nakamura: Thank you very much. Also, I am looking at your second quarter report submitted to the Department of Finance on February 15th, the third page and I wanted to get just some clarification on this. Ms. Cistaro: That would be William. 04-23-2013 Kauai Humane Society (aa) Page 28 Ms. Nakamura; William. It is the second quarter statistic for the Kauai Humane Society and I wanted to just ask you is this Fiscal Year 2013 just for the — do you have a calendar year? Do you have the same fiscal year as the County? Mr. Earnshaw: Our fiscal year starts July 1st. It started July 1, 2012 and goes through June 30, 2013. Ms. Nakamura: So, your 2012 numbers that you are showing here, that is the full year of services? Mr. Earnshaw: Correct. Ms. Nakamura: Just, for my clarification, what does the DOA/REQ, what does that refer to? Ms. Cistaro: DOA is Dead on Arrival and REQ I am going to make an supposition that that is Owner Requesting Euthanasia. Ms. Nakamura: Thank you. You have a list of all the intake for the year, three thousand six hundred seventy-nine (3,679). So, around ten (10) animals a day, if we were to just use three hundred sixty-five (365) days, on average. Then you would return to the owner, you have the total here, four hundred thirty-four (434). Then you would have a certain number that would be adopted and then euthanized. Ms. Cistaro: Yes. Ms. Nakamura: So, those are the three(3) options? I am trying to add up and it does not add up to the total of the intake. Ms. Cistaro: It never will. Ms. Nakamura: So, I just wanted to clarify. Ms. Cistaro: When we start July 1st, we will have all of the animals in the shelter. So, we usually start our fiscal year with a couple of hundred animals in the shelter. During the month of July they are getting adopted, or redeemed, or euthanized in addition to what is coming in. We have to look at what is our population on June 30 because that population is still there July 1st. They get counted when they are dispositioned out. Ms. Nakamura: Thank you for clarifying that. That makes sense. Also, when you are doing the intake, this could be people coming to you as well as your employee goes out into the field. Ms. Cistaro: Yes. Ms. Nakamura: So a combination of both? 04-23-2013 Kaua`i Humane Society (aa) Page 29 Ms. Cistaro: Yes. Ms. Nakamura: Then your spay and neuter, there are four (4) different options under that program of what happens once the animal is brought in? Ms. Cistaro: Four (4) different options for spay and neuter? Ms. Nakamura; You have adoptions, public, feral cats, and com vets. So, I just wanted to clarify that. Ms. Cistaro: Yes. There are four (4) different options. We spay or neuter animals that we have made available for adoption. The public brings in their animals and that is the County funded Spay/Neuter Program. Then we have Feral Cat Caretakers bringing in feral cats that they have trapped for the Trap Neuter and Release Program and, then the vet program is the coupon portion of the County funded program where they can come to the shelter and get a coupon to take to a private vet to get a discount on the service at the private vet. Ms. Nakamura: Then I am just wondering, if you are going to separate the cats —I mean that request came from us. But what happens when somebody brings in a cat, you are going to we are not going to pick it up or they call in that there is a dead cat on the road? I mean, you already have the workers there twenty four hours (24) seven (7) days a week, correct? Ms. Cistaro: We have Officers available twenty-four (240 hours seven (7) daisy a week. The staff is at the shelter seven (7) days a week, 6:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. We have not determined what we would do at that point if there is not funding for the stray cat piece of. It we need to look at our funding and we need to look at what there is. We have not crossed that bridge. We would not be picking up dead animals in the field as a callout. If the Officer was driving by and there is a dead animal, we stop and we pick it up, regardless. But if someone called and said there is a dead cat in front of the school, if the Officer was not going there, we probably would not. Ms. Nakamura: I am just having a hard time with the potential separation of the services, when you had the personnel there. But I am not sure how you break that up. Ms. Cistaro: I am not sure either because, again, there is a responsibility through the contract because of the anti-cruelty statutes. We have to address cats in that. If there is a welfare or neglect complaint that does fall under the Hawai`i statutes. Ms. Nakamura: Where I am going with this is, if we cannot come up with that three hundred thousand dollars ($300,000) additional funding through this budget process, what services do not get done? I guess, what do you do? Do reduce your hours? How do you make it work with the amount that we all know is not going to satisfy your current level of service? 04-23-2013 Kaua`i Humane Society (aa) Page 30 Ms. Cistaro: We are considering closing on Mondays. That will reduce staff. We are discussing how we would handle a stray cat brought into the organization because if someone called for service, we would not because then the Animal Control Officers are not funded to do that. They are funded for the Dog Program. Using an Animal Control Officer to do non-County funded work,puts us into violation of the contract. If a stray cat is brought to the shelter, we would have to make had a determination upon arrival what we were going with that individual animal. I do not know the answer. That is part of coming to the County. It is also part of negotiating the contract. Ms. Nakamura: Thank you very much. Chair Furfaro: I just want to throw out another comment. On this amount for the cats that you put there, I have to tell you, William, some of this is just straight line stuff allocations. I mean, you are allocating half of the electric bill to the cats. I am looking at right here. You are allocating more food to the cats than the dogs. Mr. Earnshaw: I am sorry. Are you sure you are not looking at the column that says "dogs and cats." Chair Furfaro: No, I have dogs only, cats only. Then this is a different form, you have food for animals, two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500) more for cats than you do for dogs. Ms. Cistaro: Sir, we receive more cats than dogs. We receive one thousand six hundred fifty (1,650) dogs versus two thousand five hundred (2,500) cats. The cats are the bigger problem in the community. Chair Furfaro: Just tell me you can justify these allocations, then that is fine with me. But I am telling you and I read big Profit and Loss Statement (PnL), this look like just a fifty percent (50%) allocation. Ms. Cistaro: Yes, it is. Sixty-nine percent (69%) of the animals that come into the shelter are stray animals. If the County did it itself, you would be paying one hundred percent (100%) of the electric bill. We are splitting the cost with you. Chair Furfaro: But you choose to build the facility you did. That is a castle. I do not want to get into those particulars. I want to ask you if you justify the way you allocated these costs between cats and dogs? Ms. Cistaro: Yes. Chair Furfaro: I will look at those justification. I think cats eating two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500) worth of food more than dogs, I mean, there is a difference in appetites. That is a fair question that I can ask. Ms. Cistaro: Yes, sir. 04-23-2013 Kaua`i Humane Society (aa) Page 31 Chair Furfaro: You justify that, you can, I will accept that. But I just want to make sure we understand, when you are telling us three hundred ninety thousand dollars ($390,000), and I am looking at a number that is... Ms. Cistaro: Again, that is based on two thousand five hundred (2,500)cats versus one thousand six hundred fifty (1,650) dogs. Chair Furfaro: I saw the numbers up at the top. One thousand six hundred five hundred (1,650) dogs and two thousand five hundred (2,500) cats. So, there are nine hundred (900) more cats. Ms. Cistaro: Yes, sir. Chair Furfaro: Understood. If that is your justification, I will accept it for now. JoAnn, you have the floor. Ms. Yukimura: Follow-up to Council Vice Chair's questioning about cat services. It is possible that you could list all of the different services you do for cats and then say which ones are easy to segment off in terms of not doing it? Some will be more intertwined I am guessing. I am thinking back to when we had stray cats in my neighborhood and I called you folks so that I could get a cage. Then I brought the cats in when we caught them. I mean, I can see where you would say, "I am sorry we are not servicing stray cats. We are not bringing you a cage." Right? You do whatever you do with them. Ms. Cistaro: Yes. Ms. Yukimura: Some other services would be harder to severe from your normal operations? Ms. Cistaro: We can pull out some of the costs. Typically, someone that is trapping a cat comes into the shelter to pick up the trap. Then the Officers may pick up the trap in the field or the person may bring the cat in the trap back into the shelter. Ms. Yukimura; Okay. I can see two thousand five hundred (2,500) cats just left there, not dealt with. That is basically what you are saying would happen if we were—is this in one (1) year? Ms. Cistaro: Yes, that is the projection based on the numbers that have been coming in over the last two (2) years. Ms. Yukimura: I mean, there is the whole issue of why you are spaying and neutering feral cats. But I think I will leave that to the Feral Cat Committee to look at. 04-23-2013 Kaua`i Humane Society (aa) Page 32 Ms. Cistaro: The spay/neuter of feral cats is not included in this at all and it is not included in the sixty-five thousand dollars ($65,000) Spay/Neuter Fund either. That is a completely separate program and that is Society funded. Ms. Yukimura: Oh, okay. But you have spay/neuter for feral cats under your statistics. Ms. Cistaro: Yes, we are funding that. Ms. Yukimura: You are funding that, I see. Alight, thank you. Chair Furfaro: I do need an repair & maintenance (R&M) question here, Bill. On the repair & maintenance, I presume, dogs are in some kind of kennel behind a fence and so forth. Could you just look at that repair & maintenance allocation between dogs and cats and then I will give you the floor, Vice Chair. Ms. Nakamura: Thank you. I like your idea of different ways to raise revenues. I think I would very much support some of the ideas that you have brought forth. I would like to ask if you had an estimate that if there was a licensing of cats, how much revenues that might generate? Ms. Cistaro: Okay. Ms. Nakamura: That could be a follow-up. Chair Furfaro: Mr. Hooser, you have a question? Mr. Hooser: Yes. Part of this is for discussion, I think what I would like to see is everybody come back with another proposal actually. I understand we asked a separation of cats and dogs and I understand the reasoning why. My question would be if it was funded in one (1) lump sum, if you will, instead of separated out, but not as much as you are asking for, would that result in — I would imagine it would result in a reduction of services or the level of service. We would still get dog and cat control, but we would not get it as good or as a high level as what we are getting now. I guess that is laid out there. Again, I do not think we can overemphasize the condition of the County budget. A few days ago we had the Office of Elderly Affairs sitting in that chair and their budget has been cut and has resulted in a cut, they are not able to feed seniors one (1) meal a day on weekends. Frail, living alone, many low income senior citizens living their homes are being told we cannot afford to bring them one (1) meal on Saturday and Sunday because of the budget and that is the situation we are in right now. It is just a big bite. It is really hard go from one (1) level to the other level and, I for one, am looking. I have many of my own animals and many good friends who are supporters and members. I also support the Humane Society so I think we want to do what is right for the County and what is right for the Humane Society. But it is a very big bite to take and I am looking for some other options. Maybe the licensing of the cats, maybe there are other ideas, maybe there are some commitments from other fundraisers or from your Board members or something that will allow us to lower the request and still provide the services that the County needs and Nom 04-23-2013 Kaua`i Humane Society (aa) Page 33 deserves. But I think that is just I guess a personal statement from me to you asking for your help with that. Thank you. Ms. Cistaro: Yes, sir. Mr. Hooser: Thank you. Chair Furfaro: Let me ask you, what opportunities are there for grants? Any grants? National grants? Are there any out there? Ms. Cistaro: Yes, there are opportunities for Spay/Neuter Grants, and Program Development Grants. But grants do not typically pay for positions. Chair Furfaro: True, they never do. Ms. Cistaro: There are opportunities for grants. They typically look for — well, I can tell you we are going to be applying for Spay/Neuter Grants to help fund for target areas with feral cats and for helping with the hunting dogs to do spay/neuter in those areas and that would separate from the County funding. We will be looking at grant funding for opening up an Adoption Center at the Petco that is coming to town. It is a grant funding for increasing our transfer program of animals off-island. There are grants through the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty of Animals (ASPCA) for that. But unfortunately, a number of Agencies that fund grants do not fund grants when it has to do with a municipal contract because they fund the non-profit portion of the organization and not what they believe to be a municipal function. Chair Furfaro: Well, I think we all realize ourselves dealing with general grants, they are never intended to offset my payroll and so forth. But the reality is that the Spay and Neuter Program is something that also contributes to perhaps the longevity of the pet's life. We are also in a situation, we cannot even touch it today, dealing with the feral cats and our native birds. There has got to be some help out there for us. Ms. Cistaro: We are in a perfect environment for the feral cats, for those grants to be funded because of the native birds. Chair Furfaro: Yes. Ms. Cistaro: We have a good foundation for our requests. Especially with the Shearwater Program as well wrapping that together, we do have strong feelings that we would be able to get grant funding for that. Chair Furfaro: Well, I am glad to hear that. I am not going to have any more questions for you. But I want to tell you, our authority here is for the Council, is we have the authorization to give grants. Basically, the money we give you is a grant. Okay? You have no problem with me retaining the six hundred sixty thousand dollars ($660,000). My only question is, as we go through a tough budget ourselves, how 04-23-2013 Kauai Humane Society (aa) Page 34 much can we move that number? I want to make sure we are clear. I am on the same wavelength as Mr. Hooser. I am not in a position talking about cutting. I am in a position to say it is going to be tough. But I am committed to the six hundred sixty thousand dollars ($660,000) that we have with now in what is turning out to be very tough economic time. I also want to make sure you also understand that when I scrutinize a budget, I kind of know my way around a budget sheet and I wanted to ask those questions. They are tough questions. Just understand that they are questions I am expected to ask as an elected official. JoAnn, you have the floor. Ms. Yukimura: What kind of revenues will cat licensing generate approximately vis a vis the cost of cat control care? Ms. Cistaro: Typically, it takes three (3) years for your cat licensing to become a more solid program. Usually your cat licensing is less expensively initially than dogs to get people on board with licensing their cats. It is difficult at times to find the owner of cats, for the cats that are running at-large, whereas dogs typically run home and you can track the dog. Cats do not. Cats are not redeemed. People do not come into the shelter looking for their stray cat the same way that they do their dog. Usually, people's dogs are home or if they get out, they come back and they sit on the front porch. The notice that their dog is not there. They do not notice that the cat is not there for a few days. So, your Cat Licensing Program, your first couple of years, your return is small and you do a lot of educating and a lot of canvassing for the Licensing Program. Ms. Yukimura: How much do we charge for a dog license unneutered? Ms. Cistaro: I think it is three dollars and ten cents ($3.10) or four dollars and ten cents ($4.100. Ms. Yukimura: The cat license would be the be more than that? Ms. Cistaro: Well, we are proposing that we charge ten dollars ($10 for an altered dog and twenty-five ($25) for an unaltered dog license. So, we could look at charging five dollars ($5) for an altered cat and fifteen dollars ($15) for an unaltered or ten dollars ($10) until we get a — right now we could send out a list of dogs licensed and send out a renewal notice. We do not have that with cats so we would have to build our licensing list. Then there are all kind of programs you develop around your Licensing Program that there could be a late fee, there could be amnesty month that if you pay your license you do not get charge a late fee. You can do advertising campaigns around your Licensing Program so that you develop it. If your dog is wearing his license, the Animal Control Officer will drive it home for you. There are all kinds of ways to license a licensing program. Cats are not as easy as dogs because it is not as easy to throw a stray cat than throwing the tennis ball, the dog brings it back to you, you put it in the truck. Dogs are much easier. Ms. Yukimura: Well, I have to say, I really appreciate your knowledge about these items and I think that the Humane Society is very lucky to have you 04-23-2013 Kaua`i Humane Society (aa) Page 35 as their new Director because obviously, these issues are going to be very important to deal with and you seem to be quite prepared. Thank you. Ms. Cistaro: Thank you. Chair Furfaro: We have three (3) minutes here. Mr. Hooser, you have the floor. Mr. Hooser: Just a qualifying question. The contract or agreement that we have now is a broad understanding, if I am correct, for cats and dogs? Ms. Cistaro: Correct. Mr. Hooser: If the Mayor's budget included six hundred sixty li thousand dollars ($660,000, that is what is on the table right now. Ms. Cistaro: Yes. Mr. Hooser: And to change that, whether it is for five dollars ($5) or three hundred thousand dollars ($300,000), to change that upward is five (5) votes on the Council. To drop it is four (4) votes, just so you know the process. Ms. Cistaro: Okay. Mr. Hooser: If it went through at the six hundred sixty thousand dollars ($660,000), does the contract that we have now, is it an ongoing process? It is not a new contract just for dogs. It is the same contract that we have in place? Ms. Cistaro: No. The contract that we currently have in place stipulates small animals. So, the contract would have to be rewritten for us to define the scope of work. Mr. Hooser: It is a year-to-year contract? Ms. Cistaro: Yes, it is. Mr. Hooser: It expires at the end of the budget session? Ms. Cistaro: Yes, it does. Mr. Hooser: So, that is helpful to understand. Thank you. Chair Furfaro: You can address the question to me, if you have a question, procedurally, you have a question? Ms. Cistaro: Yes. 04-23-2013 Kaua`i Humane Society (aa) Page 36 Chair Furfaro Go ahead. II Ms. Cistaro: The five hundred ninety-five thousand dollars ($595,000) is for the dog portion and then there is sixty-five thousand dollars ($65,000) allocated through the grant for the spay/neuter. The last time that I was here JoAnn had asked for a proposal on extending those dollars with a participation in the program for low income and I have included that with information that you received today to ask if we can modify the agreement for the Spray/Neuter Funds that we can ask for a co-pay and that we have a program that is designated for low income and we would screen for financial assistance or income rather than just free to whomever. Chair Furfaro: Well, thank you for that because it sounds like a very good approach. Mr. Rapozo. Mr. Rapozo: Thank you, and I guess my only caution would be again, the procurement as I brought up and spoke to Amy about. You are talking about the Spay/Neuter Program? Ms. Cistaro: Yes, sir. Mr. Rapozo: That is separate and apart from the State mandate and that is why I asked that question. I know Mr. Scott said it was a stall tactic using the legal system. That is simply not it. I do not want to get involved in it, especially if we are now going to be allowing the Humane Society to charge — believe me, I want it to work. But I want to make sure that we are in line with the parameters of the Procurement Law. Ms. Cistaro: It will not be a charge. It would be a request for them to participate in the cost. If they said I cannot afford anything, we would still provide the service. Mr. Rapozo: Okay, well as I understood, it you would screen them for financial need. Ms. Cistaro: Financial need. Mr. Rapozo: Their ability to pay or whatever their financial statue is and if they are low income, they are free. That is what I thought I heard from Councilmember Yukimura. But regardless of how the setup is, the Spay/Neuter Program in general, I think and I know Ernie is there listening and I brought it up with Amy make sure that we clarify that before the contract is written. That is all I am asking and I am hoping we can. Bu I want to make sure it clears that legal part because we have the experience in the last couple of years this County has experienced a few violations of the Procurement Code and I do not want to see that happen again, not with the Humane Society. 04-23-2013 Kaua`i Humane Society (aa) Page 37 Ms. Cistaro: Can the County just donate sixty-five thousand dollars ($65,000) for the Kaua`i Humane Society and restrict it? Chair Furfaro: JoAnn, I am going to give you the last question. Ms. Yukimura: I see your submitted information that we requested, participation of ten dollars ($10) would contributing an addition of thirteen thousand dollars ($13,000) to the program. That is it, right? Ms. Cistaro: If every surgery averaged out that they contributed ten dollars ($10) to the cost of the surgery, that would extend the grant money by thirteen thousand dollars ($13,000). Ms. Yukimura: And getting surgery for ten dollars ($10) is a deal. Ms. Cistaro: Yes it is. Ms. Yukimura: Is it your understanding that spay/neuter is not part of animal control? Ms. Cistaro: Some municipalities do have it as part of their Ordinance. Some States have laws that if a pet is adopted from the shelter, that is has to be altered. Some have Ordinances that require mandatory spay/neuter on second impound. So, if someone is letting their unaltered animal run loose. It falls back to however the municipality would like to set it up. Ms. Yukimura: However we set the policy. Ms. Cistaro: Yes. Ms. Yukimura: Just from the wide spectrum that you have explained, it is clear that governments are seeing spay/neuter as a part of public policy for animal control. Ms. Cistaro: It is moving in that direction, yes, and it has in some areas. Ms. Yukimura: Thank you. Chair Furfaro: I am going put us in recess. I want to thank you very much for the very informative information you brought today. Ms. Cistaro: Thank you. 04-23-2013 Kaua`i Humane Society (aa) Page 38 Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much. We will be deliberating all the way through the 14th of May so it will be some time before we talk this out. But thank you very much for your responses today. Ms. Cistaro: Thank you very much. There being no objections, the Committee recessed at 1:03 p.m.