HomeMy WebLinkAbout 05/15/2013 Environmental Services/Public Safety/Community Assistance Committee minutes MINUTES
ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES / PUBLIC SAFETY/
COMMUNITY ASSISTANCE COMMITTEE
May 15, 2013
A meeting of the Environmental Services / Public Safety / Community
Assistance Committee of the Council of the County of Kaua`i, State of Hawai`i, was
called to order by Councilmember Mel Rapozo, Chair, at the Council Chambers,
4396 Rice Street, Suite 201, Lihu`e, Kauai, on Wednesday, May 15, 2013, at
11:22 a.m., after which the following members answered the call of the roll:
Honorable Tim Bynum
Honorable Gary L. Hooser
Honorable Ross Kagawa
Honorable JoAnn A. Yukimura
Honorable Mel Rapozo
Honorable Nadine K. Nakamura, Ex-Officio Member
Honorable Jay Furfaro, Ex-Officio Member
Minutes of the December 13, 2011 Special Public Safety & Environmental
Services Committee Meeting.
Upon motion duly made by Councilmember Kagawa, seconded by
Councilmember Bynum, and unanimously carried, Minutes of the
December 13, 2011 Special Public Safety & Environmental Services
Committee Meeting was approved.
Minutes of the May 1, 2013 Environmental Services / Public Safety /
Community Assistance Committee Meeting.
Upon motion duly made by Councilmember Kagawa, seconded by
Councilmember Bynum, and unanimously carried, Minutes of the
May 1, 2013 Environmental Services / Public Safety / Community Assistance
Committee Meeting.
was approved.
The Committee reconvened and proceeded on its agenda item as follows:
EPC 2013-05 Communication (05/09/2013) from Committee Chair
Rapozo, requesting the presence of the Administration to
provide a briefing and an update on the Host Community
Benefit Program for the Kekaha community, to include,
but not limited to, the amount of funding available, the
proposed use of the funds (e.g., consultant fees, proposed
projects, etc.), a list of the Citizens Advisory Committee
members, and the appropriate County Department that is
responsible for managing this project. [This item was
deferred.]
EPC COMMITTEE 2 MAY 15, 2013
Councilmember Kagawa moved to receive EPC 2013-05 for the record,
seconded by Councilmember Yukimura.
Chair Rapozo: I will suspend the rules. Beth?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
BETH TOKIOKA, Director of Communications: Aloha and good
morning. I work in the Mayor's Office and I am happy to be here to provide an
update on the Kekaha Host Community Benefits (HCB) Program. I think the last
time we were here to provide formal update was in February of 2011 and then last
year about this time we has transmitted to you the results of the first round of
grants that the Citizens' Advisory Committee undertook. But we are very happy to
provide an update today. I have a brief PowerPoint that will address the specific
issues that were identified in the communication that came over and then
obviously, if there are any other questions, we would be happy to answer them as
best we can. First of all a little background for anyone who is not familiar with the
Kekaha HCB, Host Community Benefits Program. These are programs that
actually exist all over our Country. They are to compensate a host community in
this case, the community that hosts our landfill. It is a fund that is set up and it
was set up here in 2008 when we were looking to expand at the Kekaha Landfill.
The purpose of the program is to provide some funding for that community in
acknowledgment of their hosting of this public facility and that funding has been
placed in the hands of — it resides with the County, but the Citizens Advisory
Committee (CAC) has been appointed to actually outreach to the community and
determine what are the needs and wants of that community and to recommend
projects that should be funded. The Citizens' Advisory Committee is appointed by
the Mayor. Here is a list of our current Citizens' Advisory Committee members
Bruce Pleas, who is the Chair, Jose Bulatao who is the Vice Chair, Evelyn Olores is
Secretary, Robert Jackson is the Financial Officer. The other four (4) members are
Myra Elliot, "Big Boy" Kupo Jr., Glenn Molander, and Thomas Nizo. Other than
Thomas Nizo, the other seven (7) that you see up there have been serving since the
beginning of the CAC. We appreciate their service. They have worked very, very
hard. Thomas Nizo replaced Randy Hee when Randy had to resign from the
Committee. I think he has been there a couple of years now, Thomas has. Then we
have a Facilitator on board, Yvonne Hosaka. She was here earlier but she had to
leave for another appointment. She has been a wonderful addition. She is a
Kekaha resident, she helps to facilitate the process, and is really working to get the
community engaged in the process. We do have one (1) open seat. It is a nine (9)
member Committee. We have an open seat. We have been trying to fill it for a
couple of years. That is one of the things that Yvonne is work on, being so close to
the community, she has a couple of people that she is talking to about filling that
seat that. That is our Committee here is the mission statement as adopted by the
Committee back in 2009. To serve as a Community Advisory Committee to
recommend projects and their Administrative process for the disbursement of the
HCB funds allocated to and in accordance with the general consensus of the Kekaha
community. That is there mission that was so aptly stated from the beginning.
EPC COMMITTEE 3 MAY 15, 2013
We do provide support to the HCB CAC program. I have been serving pretty
much as the overall Project Manager and the principal liaison with the Committee
Members. But I had a lot of support from Mauna Kea Trask in the County
Attorney's Office on the legal matters. Nalani Brun has been handling the grants
since the grant were award last year. Ernie Barreira is very helpful in financial
reporting and answering financial concerns. For the last year, we have also had
Ben Sullivan working on one of the projects that has been recommended by the CAC
but has to be approved by the Mayor and has been helpful in the technical support
on that. I will talk about that later.
As far as financials go, I thought I would share with you the late financial
report from the April 10th meeting of the CAC. You can see there that the principal
balance as of March 1st was nine hundred thirty-seven thousand two hundred
ninety dollars and eighty-two cents ($937,290.82). We do accrue interest on that
account as this Council so approved a couple of years ago so it shows the interest
accrued. We show these on our financial reports on a monthly basis. The total as of
March 31st was nine hundred thirty-seven thousand nine hundred ninety-one
dollars and sixty-five cents ($937,991.65). Now, there that pending
recommendation for the photovoltaic project which is seven hundred eighty
thousand dollars ($780,000) so that is money that still in the fund, but has been set
aside until such time as that project has approve. The balance available to grant
right now is one hundred fifty-seven thousand nine hundred ninety-one dollars and
sixty-five cents ($157,991.65.)
This is a listing of the grants that have been approved to-date. The CAC
went through a process in 2011-2012 to solicit project ideas from the community.
They went through an Request For Proposal (RFP) process and they recommended
these grants to the Mayor. The top two (2), Kekaha Elementary School and Kekaha
Pop Warner were recommended in January of last year and the rest were
recommended in May of last year. All were approved by the Mayor, so that is one
hundred twenty thousand dollars ($120,000) that has been spent for all intents and
purposes from the HCB funds for these various projects. The Kekaha Pop Warner
Project, we are just getting final reports in from them on their projects that will be
presented to the CAC on the next meeting next week on the 22nd. But the Kekaha
Pop Warner, there is a note there that they had some issue with their 501C3 status
so they ended up returning that check to us.
Just so you can have a sense of what the different projects were. There was a
really nice variety. here was funding for the Kekaha Elementary School to
establish a garden that has been very, very successful. The Boys and Girls Club
received a grant so that they could do some education with elementary school
students on diversion at Kekaha Elementary School and so that was a really nice
use of the funds. There is a group called The W sponsored by E Ola Mau that does
basketball camps and they were able to provide scholarships to Kekaha youth so
that they could participate free of charge in these basketball camps. We also had
Saint Theresa School apply for some funds to install photovoltaic and the really nice
EPC COMMITTEE 4 MAY 15, 2013
thing about this was that the CAC asked the school to set aside up to the grant
amount of fifty-five thousand dollars ($55,000), the savings that they would accrue,
so that they could offer scholarships back to Kekaha students and then after the
fifty-five thousand dollars ($55,000) is re-expended, then they would be able to
realize the savings back to the school. Episcopal Church — West Kaua`i was a
community garden that was already up and running but needed some support and
so they have been active and used that grant very well to further establish the
garden. Then the Storybook Theater of Hawai`i also sponsored a project that a gal
who offered theater classes at Kekaha Neighborhood Center and they also did a
performance at the Waimea Theater around Christmas time last year. A wide
variety of projects that I think the CAC should be proud of having sponsored.
The pending grant is the E Ola Mau photovoltaic project for seven hundred
eighty thousand dollars ($780,000). In a nutshell, that project would provide
funding for Kekaha residents to have photovoltaic systems installed on their roofs
and the thought they would be prioritized so that those who own and occupy their
home and have lived in Kekaha for the longest would be first in line to receive the
systems. That was the basic concept of the grant. It was recommended by the CAC
to the Mayor last May, but at the time there were many, many questions about how
it would be managed. It is obviously a huge amount of money and we want to make
sure it is managed properly. We had provided back to the proposers of the project
and to the CAC prior to their decision. It was a two (2) page list of questions and
issues that we were concerned about. The recommendation came from the CAC
with basically a question to work with the group to get project to the point where
the Mayor would approve it. So, we have been working with them. Ben Sullivan
has been really, really key in that effort to address the issues. It is still pending the
Mayor's approval, although we feel at this point the issues have been addressed
appropriately and I think the Mayor is at point as long as the community and the
CAC are still recommending, that we feel that it is ready to move forward. But that
status of that and there should be an update that the project proposers will be
providing next week to the CAC. The group, we call The Uncles, consist of four (4)
gentlemen retired in the Kekaha community and have had this idea and have
worked very, very hard on just a volunteer effort with good intentions from the
heart. They are Pat Pereira, Garrett Agena, Buddie Ayudan, and Dennis Eguichi.
We call them "The Uncles." But we have really enjoyed working with them. They
have such aloha in their heart and really wanting to do good thing for the
community and we are hopeful that eventually this project will happen.
just wrapped
question was regarding funding. As you all know, yo u� w pp ed
up budget a couple of days ago, so approved ved in the Fiscal Year 2014 budget there
was the additional fund allocation that would go into the basically the grant fund of
one hundred sixty-eight thousand nine hundred seventy-nine dollars ($168,979) and
ij
that is in the Capital Improvement Project (CIP) budget. Once that is allocated as
of July 1, that would bring their liquid assets in that fund, I guess to use lack of a
better term, to a little over three hundred twenty-six thousand nine hundred
seventy dollars ($326,970). That does not include the interest that will accrue up to
''I
EPC COMMITTEE 5 MAY 15, 2013
that point. That is the amount that would be available to grant to other projects in
the coming year and I think the CAC is on track to start another process this
summer to get proposals and grant out some more moneys. Then the other
approved line item was funding for Yvonne Hosaka's position, the CAC Facilitator,
and that is in the Mayor's Office. What was not requested was a request to provide
some facilitation support for to the E Ola Mau photovoltaic project (PV) project that
we proposed to come out of Office of Economic Development (OED) budget because,
as I mentioned, all of those issues that we had on management. It is such a large
amount of money and we feel that it is very, very important that the proper support
be in place. We are asking for additional moneys to do that, although in the
development of this proposed support we would be getting back a plan or a template
that would be useful to us in doing other projects of a similar nature where a
community or a group of users could come together, purchase systems, save money,
and really see that we can go after the idea of photovoltaic in many other ways. The
idea was investing more money into the project but then there would be a larger use
for it community-wide in a template that could be use the in other communities.
That was what the intent was there. That, I think, addresses most of what was in
the communication to us. I do not know if there are any questions on that or
anything else. I do have, I think, Ben is here if there are any technical questions on
the PV project and others.
Chair Rapozo: Thank you, Beth. I just want to add what was not
approved was sixty thousand dollars ($60,000) for the project facilitation support.
But I want the public and the members of Kekaha community especially the four (4)
uncles to understand that it came over with absolutely no justification or
explanation. I want you folks to understand that and we are not in the business of
approving funds just because it is in the Mayor's budget report. It came with
absolutely — other than the text and as I sit here today, I am still not aware of the
specifics of the project. We have never been made aware and hence the request to
have this on the agenda today, Beth. I am hoping that we can get to some of that
and then the only one question I have before I open it up to Councilmembers. The
purpose to have it here is so we can clear the air. If there are rumors flying around
the community, it gets settled right here. The proposal that was submitted to the
CAC and approved back in 2012, you are saying it was recommended by the CAC in
May 2012. So, prior to 2012 the CAC approved the project?
Ms. Tokioka: It was actually approved at a meeting in
May of 2012 or it was recommended. They voted to recommend to the Mayor that
the project be approved.
Chair Rapozo: Is the proposal that you folks were asking for
funding, is it the same proposal that sits today?
Ms. Tokioka: Yes. Well, it is the same concept, it just has
more meat on the bones and more...
EPC COMMITTEE 6 MAY 15, 2013
Chair Rapozo: But would you not agree that it is
substantially different?
Ms. Tokioka: Is it substantially different?
Chair Rapozo: Yes.
Ms. Tokioka: No, I do not think I would agree. I think it is
substantially the same.
Chair Rapozo: What was the original proposal?
Ms. Tokioka: The original proposal was for the money to
go towards installing photovoltaic systems on the homes of Kekaha residents who
qualified based on the fact that first of all the homes had to be owner occupied and
secondly it would be ranked on the number of years that you have lived in the
community of Kekaha. There would be a seniority system and the moneys would be
used to buy the systems on behalf of the individuals for as long as the seven
hundred eighty thousand dollars ($780,000) would be.
Chair Rapozo: Right.
Ms. Tokioka: It was projected at that time that they could
buy anywhere from, I think, it was eighty (80) to one hundred twenty (120) systems
with the seven hundred eighty thousand dollars ($780,000). I think in the past
year, there were opportunities to do more than that, the money could be stretched
farther. But that was the concept.
Chair Rapozo: I guess, that is when the one meeting that I
attended with Ross, there was a PowerPoint, I guess, that was available and the
PowerPoint that I saw was substantially different. It included some options where
we would have an external, I guess, a lending institution come in, leverage this
moneys, and offer the community to borrow money to pay for their systems. That is
not the same as this money paying for a system. In other words, if I lived there or
not me, somebody that lived in Kekaha, in the proposal that was approved was that
they would go in and apply and based on the criteria, they get a system, free of
charge. The new proposal, they would apply, and they would be given a loan.
Ms. Tokioka: Well, let me explain that. The two (2) major
areas of concern that the Mayor had when the project came over to him was one was
that there did not appear to be appropriate project management in place. You were
basically expecting these four (4) volunteers to manager this huge project.
Secondly, is there a way to stretch the money so that more residents could benefit?
When we started working on this, and Ben Sullivan started to work with the uncles
and the consultants that they had been working with which was the Council for
Native Hawaiian advancement, that they started to talk about different ways that
EPC COMMITTEE 7 MAY 15, 2013
we could impact more homes. One of the initiatives around the Country called
solarized initiatives that have been in place that the concept was that there would
be a Revolving Loan Fund and that the residents could access very low interest
funds. Basically, it would be at a net no cost to the consumer. So, you apply for the
loan, hopefully you qualify so that the loan amount is no more than your electric
bill. So, you are basically paying your electric bill but you are buying the system
and eventually you own the system. The option that was presented, and it was just
an option because there were several options and one was the original concept, but
we just felt it was important to look at different ways to stretch the money. One of
the options that was presented was to do this Revolving Loan Fund and the real
benefit to that was that at the end of the day, everybody in Kekaha potentially
could have a system in place and you would still have the seven hundred eighty
thousand dollars ($780,000) in place and to use for other purposes. They could
repurpose it to another type of loan program or however. We felt it was important
to put at least put that option out there. It was not well-received to the CAC, the
Citizens' Advisory Committee. They felt like they wanted to stay true to the
original concept and I probably should not speak for the uncles and they are
welcome to come up and speak for themselves. But I think after the uncles took it
very much to heart and they felt that if that is what the CAC wants, then that is
what we will do. We were looking at different options as to how to stretch the
money, but if they want us to go back to the original concept then that is what we
will do and that is where they are now. They have gone back to the original
concept. They went back out to the community on April 3rd and presented that back
to the full outright purchase of systems for a finite number of homes as far as the
seven hundred eighty thousand dollars ($780,000) will stretch. That is where we
are now.
Chair Rapozo: Why the request for the sixty thousand
dollars ($60,000)?
Ms. Tokioka: Well, there is still a need to manage that
money, to be accountable for that money, and to run the process of qualification
which probably has the most potential to go awry to make sure whatever criteria is
applied so that people who are getting these systems, the criteria is applied
appropriately and consistently across the board. There still is a need for some
management of this project beyond the goodwill and volunteerism of the uncles. We
feel that is very important. The only thing that changed is what we have asked
them to do in addition to that is to outreach to others who will not benefit from the
systems because they do not meet the criteria, that they would be given options on
other programs, loan programs. There is actually something coming down from
State, I think, next year where you can actually pay for a system via your electric
bills, that is a new program. Part of that will be outreach to everyone else in the
community who does not benefit from a system, but they will know what their
option are to access them via other loan programs. Again, that is something that
we feel strongly will benefit the community and we will also, again, get a template
back that could be used in other communities for bulk purchases of systems.
EPC COMMITTEE 8 MAY 15, 2013
Chair Rapozo: Well, the other communities do not have host
community benefits. I think that is what separates Kekaha from any other
community right now. No other community has a eight hundred thousand dollar
($800,000) or one million dollar ($1,000,000) fund sitting and waiting for the
community to decide what they are going to do with the money. The other thing is I
have been reading a lot of the minutes online and I really appreciate the minutes
being online. But it does not seem there has been a lot of discussion at the CAC.
involving the options and so forth. I mean there is discussion on the project, but I
just want to make sure that this is driven by the CAC and not the Administration.
Ms. Tokioka: No. well, what happened was that after
May, the CAC took a break and they had their first meeting again in October. At
that meeting the uncles were present, Ben was present, and they did a presentation
on where they were at this point. Where they were at that point was still in
discussion of how to best manage and present this project. At that meeting they
talked about where they were at and they say that the more research needed to be
done and that various options would be presented probably around the first of the
year. Then they appeared again at the meeting that you are referring to,
Councilmember, in February, where they did present those options to the CAC and
again, the CAC really felt at that point that they did not want to see other options.
They felt very comfortable with what was already recommended. After that the
uncles regrouped and came back to the community in April and basically — they
went back. They took the CAC's discussion to heart and they said, "Yes, we will go
back to the original concept."
Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Mr. Kagawa.
Mr. Kagawa: I will let you know what I gathered, is that
the sixty thousand dollars ($60,000) is basically going to pay for the consultant that
will help do that and the reason why you folks came with that request was that you
did not want the sixty thousand dollars ($60,000) coming out of the seven hundred
eighty thousand dollars ($780,000), is that right?
Ms. Tokioka: Yes, we actually — our first discussions with
the uncles was that we felt that part of the seven hundred eighty thousand dollars
($780,000) should go to project management because normally in a project like that,
ten percent (10%) or so is going to go to Administration. We felt that was a piece
that was lacking, but they were adamant that how they presented the project to the
community was that every penny of that seven hundred eighty thousand dollars
($780,000) would go to photovoltaic systems and none of it would go to
Administration. We were kind of in between a rock and a hard place and the Mayor
very much wanted us to somehow empower this proposal to go forward and yet, he
could not approve it without knowing that there was not the proper support in
place. The compromise that we came up was not to just throw additional money at
it, but that there would be something in return for us which would be the template
4'
EPC COMMITTEE 9 MAY 15, 2013
that we are talking about that would provide a roadmap for other communities that
could utilize it in the future.
Mr. Kagawa: Well, I think when we add things such as the
sixty thousand dollars ($60,000), such as the forty-one thousand dollars ($41,000) to
your budget. That was intended for the increase in the Tipping Fees that did not
pass, but we still passed here at the Council because we feel like we owe them
something after last year, after this recent year deciding that we were going to go
with the vertical expansion instead of the lateral expansion. I think we feel that,
the Council felt at least by a majority of vote, that we had kind of changed the terms
of the landfill situation immediately without asking them because we needed it due
to the permits and things. I thank members for supporting that request and I just
wanted to inform the community members and the Board that we added forty-one
thousand dollars ($41,000). But the sixty thousand dollars ($60,000) did not pass
because I think members were unsure of listening to my word that the sixty
thousand dollars ($60,000) was in fact, intended to cover the consulting fees that
the Administration, you folks, feels it is a requirement. I think they wanted to do it
in-house as far as with donations and things. But I think that the Administration
overseeing and working together side-by-side with the group feels that it is — I think
would more solidly covered if we have a paid consultant to oversee the project. Is
that right?
Ms. Tokioka: We definitely feel that — it absolutely has to
has some solid management there and that would come at a price. I mean, again a
project like this would normally have an Administrative budget of ten percent (10%)
of the project, that is ten percent (10%) to fifteen percent (15%) is normal. We are
kind of at a point and I am not pointing the finger at the Council. I do understand
why you do not want to make decisions based on a lack of information. I totally
understand there was a lack of information there. At this point though, we cannot
approve the project until we know there is money somewhere whether it is in the
project budget, whether it is additional moneys from the HCB fund, or some other
allocation on General Fund side that we might all agree to. But we cannot move
forward with the project until we feel there is solid management in place. We just
feel like — especially when you have a situation where certain members of the
community will receive the direct benefit and others will not. It has to be done
without question based on criteria that is very strictly applied. Again, we love the
project. We support the concept. We want to do what we can to make it happen.
But that is non-negotiable, there has to be management there.
Mr. Kagawa: My final question or comment is that — and I
am new to the game. I was not on the Council when we set up the Host Community
Benefit group. But my thing is it is great that we are informed as much as possible.
You can never listen enough to what is going on out there, but I think the intention
of, I am from the West Side, but I am not a part of the Kekaha community. I like
the Board. It is a good mixture from what I heard. I like the Board. I like the
members that are helping the Board. I do not think they agree all the time just like
EPC COMMITTEE 10 MAY 15, 2013
us here. But I think in the end, it is what they want. It may not be what we here
agree with, but I think we need to support them and these people are definitely
trying their best to do what is right. I think utilizing the sun out in the West Side,
that is definitely something we do not do enough of. The Kekaha sun can always
surprise you when you do not go there too often. It is hotter than you think. If we
can to utilize the sun, it totally makes sense to me. I just hope that you folks can
help Kekaha Host Community Benefits to get what they want because I think our
job is to continue funding that project and their job is to decide how to spend it.
That is from me. Thank you.
Chair Rapozo: Hang on really quick. I have six (6)
registered speakers. If we want to get through them before lunch then I am going
to have you folks testify now. Are you folks all coming back after lunch or did you
want to testify before lunch? All six (6) of you? Okay, Beth. Just one (1) of you will
testify before lunch? Go ahead.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you. Beth, thank you for your work
on this and I believe it is a very exciting project and the whole concept of Host
Community Benefits and how the community has — I know it is been a difficult
process because it is been a pioneering process, but what is unfolding is very
positive. My question is, as Councilmember Kagawa mentioned, there was an
additional forty-one thousand dollars ($41,000) which was calculated according to
the increase of the solid waste fees, because the fees were going to be increased,
there was going to be additional Host Community Benefits. Now, the fees were not
increased so the forty-one thousand dollars ($41,000) actually has no base to come
from. But the majority of the Council, in its wisdom, decided to keep those moneys
there. It is kind of an extra Host Community Benefit without a rationale to the
formula and wondered if that could be used because it is a bonus. It is really not
part of the regular Host Community Benefits. Can that be used to address the
consultant needs?
Ms. Tokioka: I think it could. It would need to be a
recommendation from the CAC though.
Ms. Yukimura: Right.
Ms. Tokioka: Yes, I think that is a reasonable suggestion
to make.
Ms. Yukimura: I recognize that you need to go to the CAC,
but because there are people here from the CAC, I would like to request a
consideration of that because that will enable this ro'ect to forward.� move f o ward. Now,
you are minus twenty thousand dollars ($20,000) then. Oh, sixty thousand dollars
($60,000) minus forty-one thousand dollars ($41,000), sorry? Nineteen thousand
dollars ($19,000), yes. The question is can you manage on forty-one thousand
EPC COMMITTEE 11 MAY 15, 2013
dollars ($41,000) or do you need an additional amount to proceed and I leave that to
be decided within your CAC.
Ms. Tokioka: Correct. Again, if there is any gap, I guess,
we could also ask the uncles to reconsider if there was a small amount from the
actual seven hundred eighty thousand dollars ($780,000) that could be provided
that would fill whatever gap might be remaining.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes. There are many different ways to put
the pieces together and I do acknowledge that it is a CAC decision. But it could be a
way to make the project to move forward. Thank you very much.
Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Nakamura, follow-up
question.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you, Beth, for that presentation.
Really, this is the first time that I have gotten this level of detail and I really
appreciate it. I wanted to just go back. If we are looking at a ten percent (10%) of
project management and it is a seven hundred eighty thousand dollar ($780,000)
grant that we are looking at, ten percent (10%) of that is seventy-eight thousand
dollars ($78,000). I agree that project oversight, project management, and
accounting of those funds need to be tight because it all leads back to our
Comprehensive Annual Financial Report (CAFR) and the County's financial picture.
So, we need to have those controls in place. Now, if the forty-one thousand dollars
($41,000) is in there, it is kind of new found money, not anything you budgeting for.
But if we can use that toward the project management and if we can ask the CAC to
come up with an additional thirty-seven thousand dollars ($37,000) from the
p Y ( )
allocations that are now going to be available, then we will get to the seventy-eight
thousand dollars ($78,000) and would give the County the assurances to then move
and spend the seven hundred eighty thousand dollars ($780,000) that has been
sitting there for many years. I would like to throw that back to the CAC as a
g Y Y
possibility to make the seven hundred eighty thousand dollars ($78,000) a whole
and to secure a consultant that will help to meet those goals.
Ms. Tokioka: Thank you.
Chair Rapozo: I have a follow-up question before Mr.
Hooser, really quick because it is directly related to Councilmember Nakamura's
question. When we go out for a consultant, do we not do an RFP?
Ms. Tokioka: Well, in this instance, the uncles were
working with the Council for Native Hawaiian Advancement (CNHA). When we
started talking with them back last summer and we were making suggestions about
project management, we had recommended an organization called Blue Planet. I
know that they have talked to various entities and they feel comfortable with
CNHA and they feel very strongly that that is the partner that they would like to
EPC COMMITTEE 12 MAY 15, 2013
work with. Now again, we are trying to empower them as best we can. Ben has
been in consultation with Robin and we feel very comfortable that that entity can do
the work. We have seen what the scope of work looks like. They have indicated
that they could manage the project for sixty thousand dollars ($60,000) so that is
why that is the amount that has been placed out there.
Chair Rapozo: Beth, I guess my...
Ms. Tokioka: So...
Chair Rapozo: Go ahead.
Ms. Tokioka: They have identified a partner they would
like to work with and so we have talked to Ernie Barreira and he has said that we
can procure the services through the facilitation exemption. So, it would be an
exempt procurement and that is how we would plan to go about securing the
facilitator/coordinator.
Chair Rapozo: I guess I am confused because earlier you
said that you are going to go back to the original proposal of just a finite number of
homes so we needed a Project Manager to take care of the applications and all of
that. You are saying it is for consulting services and I am saying that there are
others that can provide that service. How would we get — I guess we will send it so I
will not do it today on the floor. We will do it in writing.
Ms. Tokioka: Sure.
Chair Rapozo: But I am concerned because I believe if it is
for consulting services, we just went through that not long ago and we got dinged
for it. We are here talking about increasing the money when we should be going out
to bid and say that this is what we need, you submit, and the lowest bidder
qualified will get the bid. That is what we should be doing. But we are here putting
the moneys out and I understand Councilmember Nakamura's intent is to hit the
ten percent (10%) mark that you said. But now we put our cards on the table and
say now we want to go out to bid and we know that the Council will approve
seventy-eight thousand dollars ($78,000), so guess what, I am going to make my bid.
I am not comfortable. Has this process been vetted through the County Attorney's
Office
Ms. Tokioka: Yes, it has.
Chair Rapozo: It has? Wow, that is interesting.
Ms. Tokioka: I was reassured before this meeting that that
is a proper way. There are many ways we could procure, but that is a proper way to
go about it. It is really again, trying to empower this community based group that
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EPC COMMITTEE 13 MAY 15, 2013
has a team in place that they feel comfortable with and we feel comfortable. If we
had chosen a partner that we felt did not have the capacity to do the work, we
certainly would have certainly objected. But we feel that their partner is
experienced in this area and perfectly capable.
Chair Rapozo: I guess, Beth, I may share that feeling as
well. But we cannot get around procurement. We cannot get around being fair and
equitable with public money. I think that is - and that is the kind of feeling that I
am having is that it is all been done, we are moving forward, you are coming to us
for money, and I am like hang on, time out. As you can see, there are many
concerns about procurement that we need to address. Whether it is a good project
or not, it is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that I do not want to be caught with
our pants down.
Ms. Tokioka: Right.
Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Hooser.
Mr. Hooser: Just a couple of questions. The CAC has
approved this project that we are describing?
Ms. Tokioka: Yes.
Mr. Hooser: Okay. I just wanted to be clear on that. The
facilitator is a sixty thousand dollars ($60,000) a year position?
Ms. Tokioka: For the CAC?
Mr. Hooser: Right.
Ms. Tokioka: Yes.
Mr. Hooser: To me, that is almost a full-time position,
sixty thousand dollars ($60,000). How many meetings a month?
Ms. Tokioka: There is one (1) meeting a month. That also
includes all of — she does all of her own photocopying of agendas and all of that
work so there are expenses involved.
Mr. Hooser: So, the sixty thousand dollars ($60,000) for
that then the sixty thousand dollars ($60,000) to manage, that is one hundred
twenty thousand dollars ($120,000). That is a lot of money.
Ms. Tokioka: This one, for the PV process, would be a one
(1) time expenditure just to manage this project, yes.
EPC COMMITTEE 14 MAY 15, 2013
Mr. Hooser: Right, it still seems like a significant sum.. It
sounds like a very good project. I assume you are going out to bid in terms of a
vendor to supply these photovoltaic, get installation, and all of that.
Ms. Tokioka: Yes. I think...
Mr. Hooser: I do not need the details.
Ms. Tokioka: There are some various options. We want to
take advantage of bulk buys as much as we can, but also give the homeowners some
choice. What I have heard is that there might be a list of two (2) or three (3)
vendors that they can choose from. There are a number of ways that it could be
rolled out. But yes, there would be a selection process.
Mr. Hooser: I think we all want to support the Kekaha
community and such a project. The context, I think, is important. This is a budget
where we have been asked by the Administration to raise taxes throughout and to
cut many areas including senior citizens Meals on Wheels and then to get, what I
ask a last minute request for sixty thousand dollars ($60,000) to go on top of a one
million dollar ($1,000,000) fund to help the project which is just kind of difficult to
find it. I believe we did — your discussion about the additional forty thousand
dollars ($40,000) or forty-one thousand dollars ($41,000), and so I would hope — you
said it was non-negotiable, but I would hope that was not necessarily the case that
we could take the resources that we have whether it is the forty-one thousand
dollars ($41,000), existing resources in the Mayor's Office, in the Office of Economic
Development, resources possibly Kaua`i Island Utility Cooperative (KIUC), I would
imagine they would be interested in this kind of project. Kaua`i Economic
Development Board (KEDB) and other partners that might be willing to step up to
the plate to help make this happen in addition to the County. Have you explored
those options?
Ms. Tokioka: No, we have not. Again, I think to not pay
for management of this project is really —we feel very strongly that it needs to be
someone who is being held accountable for the results.
Mr. Hooser: If I could just interject for second. I am not
asking not to pay for it. It is a question of how it is paid for whether if it as done for
the Office of Economic Development, that Office, or the County would be paying for
existing resources. I do not expect to implement a project without any
management.
Ms. Tokioka: Well, I do not think we have the resources.
We need to have somebody to manage it so there are non-existing resources within
the County to do this job. Again, the uncles made it very clear who they would like
to work with, who they feel comfortable with, and we want to empower that
partnership as best we can. We have vetted the procurement issues. We do not feel
EPC COMMITTEE 15 MAY 15, 2013
there is say procurement issue and so we are trying to make this project happen in
the way they envisioned it as best they can. It is not we are not open to these other
things. We need to talk to the uncles and see what they are comfortable with.
Mr. Hooser: If I could, I am not clear about the position of
the uncles or the position of the CAC. So, the CAC works with the uncles, right?
Does the CAC support the same vendor, if you would, that the uncles are
supporting? Is that who the CAC wants to hire also?
Ms. Tokioka: The uncles are actually the grant applicant.
They applied for a grant to the CAC. The CAC is the advisory body that oversees
the fund and makes the recommendation as to how it should be funded. Just as
Kekaha Elementary School and Saint Theresa's, they applied for a grant.
Mr. Hooser: Through the uncles?
Ms. Tokioka: So, that is their relationship. The uncles did,
yes. It is the role of the CAC to vet the proposals and to let the Mayor know which
they recommend. So, that is the relationship between the two (2).
Mr. Hooser: Who is asking for the sixty thousand dollars
($60,0000? That would be the uncles? Is that through the Mayor's Office.
Ms. Tokioka: Well, yes. When the CAC recommended that
the project be funded, we were all unclear as to how it would happen. There were so
many unanswered questions and the expectation was that we would work with this
group to close the gaps, answer the questions, and get it to a point where it could go
forward. That was their request of us to work it until we could get this thing ready
to go and approved. We began working with the uncles on answering the questions
and addressing where we felt the shortcomings were. One of these were the issue of
project management and that is how this evolved through their feeling that none of
the funds in the grant should go to project management because they had made a
commitment that it would all go to the photovoltaic systems. That is when we
started to have those discussions of how else could we pay for it? Then we felt we
would be willing to offer that, but again, we would want something in return that
would benefit the greater community. I am not sure if that answers.
Mr. Hooser: Just one more little follow-up because I
appreciate a lot of moving parts here.
Ms. Tokioka: Absolutely.
Mr. Hooser: And I am catching up on this. Then it would
be the CAC's decision whether to utilize that forty thousand dollars ($40,000) extra
money, not the uncles necessarily.
EPC COMMITTEE 16 MAY 15, 2013
Ms. Tokioka: Exactly.
Mr. Hooser: Then the CAC's decision on which consultant
to use also?
Ms. Tokioka: I do not know. This is all new ground. I
know that...
Mr. Hooser: Do they support the same vendor choice?
Ms. Tokioka: I do not know that that discussion has
happened between uncles and CAC. They will be providing a full update to the
CAC next week and that was planned to be on the agenda because I think the CAC
— what I had heard from Bruce and others was that they wanted to find out okay
exactly it is a year later, where are we at, what has changed, if anything, and then
give a final kind of re-recommendation, a re-stamp of approval to it based on where
it is today. So, following that meeting, depending on how the CAC feels, we will
either be moving forward or not.
Mr. Hooser: Great. Thank you very much.
Chair Rapozo: Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: At the end of the day with this project, the
selection criteria, and then a thing is installed, who writes the check to the
contractor?
Ms. Tokioka: Well, the way the project was proposed, E
Ola Mau, which is the community organization in Kekaha is the fiscal sponsor.
Mr. Bynum: They write check?
Ms. Tokioka: It would be that we would be dispersing
funds to E Ola Mau and then they would be in turn dispersing funds to the vendor.
Those are some discussion that we need to have with E Ola Mau because they have
their own concerns I think. Once we got deep into the discussions, they had their
own concerns about if they can function that way and maintain their 501(C)3 and
those may have been answered. But they had some good, important questions
about their own involvement and how that might impact them. but that is how -- so
the way these grants are set up, there is a fiscal sponsor which was E Ola Mau, the
grant moneys would go to them, and then presumably they would be paying.
Mr. Bynum: These previous grants that have already
been distributed, who wrote the checks?
EPC COMMITTEE 17 MAY 15, 2013
Ms. Tokioka: Well, for example Saint Theresa
photovoltaic, we wrote the check to Saint Theresa's and they...
Mr. Bynum: The County did?
Ms. Tokioka: ...and they in turn paid their vendor that
was installing the photovoltaic.
Mr. Bynum: I do not want to go into all the details, but
the County has a history of empowering local groups in similar fashions both for big
and small projects and I like that that way. It looks like a lot of really good work
has happened to collaborate, and you have used the word a bunch of times and I
appreciate it, "I want to empower the community to do that" within the legal
passports making parameters making sure that we do our responsibility to see that
we do not have a big controversy because it was not done correctly. So, I applaud all
of that a lot. The other thing I would say is that any non-profit that works these
kind of activities or groups know that there is Administrative costs. We all wish we
could put every penny to a grant towards services, say I was in social service. But
we know we have to provide that infrastructure, right? To me, whether you call it
sixty thousand dollars ($60,000) for this, it is just sixty thousand dollars ($60,000)
more dollars into this pot. I think part of the coming to grips with the way things
work is to realize that you do projects, there is Administrative costs. If the County
is supporting that, that is just additional above and beyond the formula kind of
contributions. Anyway, thank you for all that good work. But I hope it does
continue to go through non-profits because they have more flexibility and there is a
legal way to do that, the County is pretty adept at that in say the Department of
Parks and Recreation. Thank you.
Chair Rapozo: Thank you. I guess I see it a little different
only because this sixty thousand dollars ($60,000) is separate from the
disbursement to the non-profit. The County is actually paying for consulting
services.
Ms. Tokioka: Correct. That would not be part of this
grant, it would not go to the E Ola Mau group. It would go directly to the
facilitator, yes.
Chair Rapozo: Correct, therefore, if it did, if the grant
approved by the CAC and the Mayor was for the non-profit and they decided to go
hire a consultant, they can. But in this case, we are saying we are going to give the
money to the non-profit, but we are going to give (x) amount of dollars to this vendor
of our choice without going through the procurement. I think that is the problem
and we will pursue.
Ms. Tokioka: Well, it is the vendor of their choice. But the
whole thought was that it is an actually a greater County project than just this one.
EPC COMMITTEE 18 MAY 15, 2013
So, the accountability is back to the County to provide that report back so it will be
useful in the future.
Chair Rapozo: Right, but it is if were going out to a
consultant to go and do a template for anything. If we wanted to go out professional
services contractor, I thought we learned our lesson recently. But if we to go out for
a professional services contract which is going to give us a product in return that
say this is the template you can use for future projects, I would argue that that
would require going through State procurement process. But we will pursue that in
writing because I would like to see the opinion on that. At this time, Beth, I am
going to ask you to step down. I wanted to get whoever wanted to testify before
lunch. The rules are still suspendered. If you could state your name when you sit
down so the captioner can get it. You have three (3) minutes.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
DENNIS EGUCHI: Chair and Councilmembers, thank you for
giving me this opportunity. I understand I have limited time, but can I give you a
really fast review as to why we are at now? Basically the four (4) of us, every step of
the way that we have gone even including with coming up with the grant, we came
up with the idea that we would hold a community meeting and we asked the
community by hands voting, do you guys want this? So, they take a vote and then
we move forward. Now, we ask them what do you want in this particular PV
Y p
project? How do you want to go ahead and decide who gets the system and who
does not? Suggestions from the community, we take a vote, and we move forward.
After we put in the original grant proposal, we thought we were on the road with
the community's support in just going forward. Then we have the County says,
"You need to hire a Project Manager and if you can also followed the plan called
Solarized Massachusetts or take ideas from it." We spent a whole bunch of time
with the County, finding somebody that would do the project, working with
Solarized Massachusetts so we changed it and called it Solarized Kekaha. Then we
started to progress again. In the meantime the CAC,g C Cat every update we go to, we
g Y p g ,
get questioned. Well, one of the biggest concerns is still that you are going to only
do a handful of residents in the community and not everybody, how do we try to
remedy this? We stepped back again and tried to come up with all of these
different proposals and what we did was we presented it to the CAC by telling them
that the last say is still by the community. We will run it by you folks so that you
folks can understand what we are looking at because you folks are asking us to do
this. We run it by them, we go back to the community meeting, and at that
community meeting we had two hundred fifty (250) members from the community
there. Now that it is hindsight, maybe we should have invited the Council there
just to see how much community support we had. But at this meeting, the
community says, "We already voted on what we wanted. Why are you guys doing
this to us? Why are we not going forward?" We start back again and we are back to
the original proposal. So, it has not so much to do with the CAC's input other than
suggestions to us which we tried to see if we could accommodate. But because we
EPC COMMITTEE 19 MAY 15, 2013
have been trying to accommodate the County, the CAC all along the way, that is
why it has been a year plus later and we are still here. We originally wanted to do
it pro bono which we were told no. We brought in contractors and the contractors
laid out specific plans with the County as to how the process would be done. We
told the person that was a contractor, "You are not going to get this contract, you
are just proposing it and we are going to put it out for bid" But we are still told that
you need to follow these processes. Again, like I said, we had to step back and go
through the whole process.
Chair Rapozo: Hold on real quick. Was that three (3)
minutes? That is your three (3) minutes. Anybody else wanting to testify before
lunch?
Mr. Eguchi: One last closing.
Chair Rapozo: Go ahead, you have three (3) more minutes.
Did you want to Buddie?
Mr. Eguchi: Everything we do, we have community
support. We do nothing without bringing it to the community first, they are taking
the vote. We worked with the CAC and we are not sure how much support the CAC
has by the community because when they come up with suggestions a lot of it is not
going back to the community. We do not know where the suggestions come from
basically. But it is not community based a lot of times. Like I said, we always make
sure that whatever we decide on goes to the community, they make the decision
before we do any presentation. Thank you.
Mr. Bynum: Thank you.
Chair Rapozo: Any questions for Dennis? If not, hang on.
PATRICK PEREIRA: I am a Kekaha resident. I am with the other
three (3) brothers in this project. As you just heard, the project I s for the people, by
the people, and of the people. All the ground rules and everything is made with the
community's input, direct input, and that is what we used. The County wants to
kill two (2) birds with one (1) stone, I have no problem with that. We have no
problem with that. But we went to the Mayor and I tell you right now we told the
Mayor, "Seven hundred sixty thousand dollars ($760,000) or seven hundred eighty
thousand dollars ($780,000) is not going to get seven hundred forty-eight (748)
owner occupied homes in Kekaha a system." At the rate we are going and the rate
that they are paying the Kekaha community for that landfill, we will never get
there. That I why I came twice before, you know, and beg you folks to consider the
initial proposal proposed by, I think it was by Mel and Mrs. Carvalho back there.
You are not going to get it, but we have to do something for help these people. This
project, if you look at of the projects this project and project "W" is the only project
that addressed the first ground rule of the CAC, that the Kekaha resident will
EPC COMMITTEE 20 MAY 15, 2013
receive the gift. But how can you tell schools no? It is very difficult to tell schools
no. We understand that, right? But when we went to see the Mayor and he wanted
to do this, right? Solarized Kauai. They wanted us to look at Solarizing
Massachusetts, Solarizing Portland, Oregon. Furthermore, when they said we
needed a management of this fund, they never offered us management people. We
had to go find our own. So, you are going to find somebody that you are familiar
with, somebody that was already helping people in big projects, and that is what we
did. To this day, she works pro bono helping us. No payola. The payola will come
in when the project gets underway and she has a couple of the girls staffed there in
Kekaha to do all of these items that they say to the County that they are going to
do. I think you can get all of those items from the County. It appears to me that
the right end of the County and left end of the County, the communication is not
clear with each other. But when we went in there and we had the meeting with the
Mayor jumping back on that bandwagon, we told the Mayor, "Seven hundred eighty
thousand dollars ($780,000), we are not going to be able to offer everybody. So, you
know what, Mayor, we are not taking money out of the seven hundred eighty
thousand dollars ($780,000)." He jumped right up there and said no problem, we
will find the money. Hey, that is the least of my worries now. But now, if that does
not get funded we are back to square one because they are not going to let the
brothers do it. I will tell you something, E Ola Mau the way we see it now, they are
not qualified to do it with that huge amount of money. We have not even received a
"yes" or "no" from E Ola Mau. The wheels in our heads are turning now. If they
cannot help us, who are we going to? I think Dennis had already talked to Waimea
Business Association and they are willing to do it if it comes to that. So, that is my
plug. Every bit of the way, everything that we have done was because we got
questioned either by the County or the CAC and this project is getting much more
difficult by the day and all we want to do is get these things up and rolling, that is
all with we want to do. You send the money to the CAC, the CAC is going to tell us
— I will tell you right now, they are going to tell us, "You folks have enough money,
take it out your fund." I do not think that is fair to the people of Kekaha. I do not
think it is fair at all because there is no guarantee that next year when we apply for
the loan to continue the loan, that we are going to get the support of the CAC.
There is no guarantee. The only guarantee we area going get and you probably
cannot do it legally is to throw moneys in the Kekaha coffer and say, one hundred
thousand dollars ($100,000) of what we throw in there going to the photovoltaic, the
solarization of Kekaha or whatever you want to call it. I do not know if that is legal
because the Host Community Benefit Fund, you say the whole community, but
actually the way the rules are about owner occupied and then from the oldest that
lived near the dump and besides people, do you know how long the dump has been
there?
Mr. Furfaro: 1953.
Mr. Pereira: That is right. That is what, fifty (50) plus
years and by the time it is finished, they gave us an overview like 2021 we are going
to get a different place for dump. You know what I hear?
EPC COMMITTEE 21 MAY 15, 2013
Chair Rapozo: Mr. Pereira.
Mr. Pereira: Yes, sir.
Chair Rapozo: I have to stop you at six (6) minutes.
Mr. Pereira: Okay.
Chair Rapozo: I do have a question though and it is
something that you brought up. You said, "Next year when you apply for the loan,
what if you do not get it?" What loan were you talking about?
Mr. Pereira: Not loan, the grant to continue because the
fiscal year going to be over in— County is in July, June?
Mr. Furfaro: June 30th.
Mr. Pereira: June 30th.
Chair Rapozo: So, the money is there. So, the money is
already in the account. It does not matter. Let us say the money goes out, right,
because if this things goes through, the seven hundred eighty thousand dollars
($780,000) will be gone?
Mr. Pereira: Well, as soon as we start using it, the seven
hundred eighty thousand dollars ($780,000) cannot be touched, but for the project,
right?
Chair Rapozo: Well, it cannot be touched now from what I
am hearing. That is what I heard in the presentation. Anyway, so as these units go
up on the rooftops, obviously the money will be dwindling.
Mr. Pereira: Yes.
Chair Rapozo: So, you are saying next year you would apply
again for the grant?
Mr. Pereira: For continuation, yes.
WAYNE "BUDDIE" AYUDAN: I knew you were going to bring that
question up.
Chair Rapozo: Hang on real quick. Any more questions for
Mr. Pereira?
Mr. Pereira: Ask me anything, I will try to answer it.
EPC COMMITTEE 22 MAY 15, 2013
Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much, thank you.
Mr. Ayudan: Can he stay here?
Chair Furfaro: You can stay. I said only one (1) was going
to testify before lunch and now everybody is raising their hands.
Mr. Pereira: I would like to thank you folks and excuse
my boisterous voice.
Chair Rapozo: No worries, I have the same problem. Go
ahead, Buddie. If you could state your fame for captioner.
Mr. Ayudan: For the record my name is Wayne
"Buddie" Ayudan. I knew that question in. You put it out on the table to have
everything come out on the table today, anything and everything. Originally, the
proposal that went through, we asked for eight hundred thousand dollars
($800,000). Our Chairman from the CAC, Mr. Pleas, he came out and he surprised
us at the proposal night. He came out and he rendered the seven hundred eighty
thousand dollars ($780,000) with a referral of eighty percent (80%) of the pending
funds that are to come in, would go towards the project to continue it to the
longevity to have it so that everyone could benefit. I guess it was approved in a
sense but it was recommended by him and with that in the picture we took this
back to the community. We were all surprised that he was happy. We brought that
back to the community, so there is a little misconception here as far as how some of
the things are being — what they might say told, herd, and not in black and white.
But anyway, whatever the funds that would be continuing into the Kekaha Host
Community Benefit, we will pursue whatever we can to continue and the County,
ourselves, and the CAC all looked at a bunch of different scenarios and that is part
of the reason it has been so long, I think. At one of our last meetings it came to the
point that the people said we voted on it already and the CAC Board Member
brought it out and said this is not what I originally approved. We did not change
the proposal, but we are at the point that all we are waiting on is to get our first
dollar and yes, the Mayor did approve it. I have him and his approval. We
conferred some of this to some of the meetings so it is not that it is not approved, it
is approved. If I want to, I can prove that also. But now where we are at is, is
everybody happy? Can we start going? The funding portion that is on the table, the
sixty thousand dollars ($60,000), it was not a request from us. It was additional
fund that was first given to us through the Mayor's Office have it off and running. I
am almost positive that if you ask anybody concerned, everything that we are
stating is out there as public record so I know that whatever I said, you can get that
form anybody. If you have any kinds of questions, even if it is not in your mind
now, you can call us and we can meet and give you the right answers because all we
are doing is referring back from all of our community residents. We are only
EPC COMMITTEE 23 MAY 15, 2013
speaking for them. Japanese would call that we are the (inaudible). But anything
that you think might be of a question.
Chair Rapozo: Well, thank you, Buddie. I guess for us here
and I speak for myself, but I would assume everybody is in the same boat. The
right hand die not tells the right hand. The right hand did not tell the left hand
anything. They Mayor, I guess, promised some money that he said they would find
and he never tell us. It comes over to us the night before we start deliberations and
like I said earlier, I am not going to beat a dead horse. But my point is this
Buddies, we do not know the project. I have been to a few of the meetings, but we
do not know what is transpiring. Again, I am only speaking for myself. Maybe
others are more aware. This is a huge project. This is a multi-million dollar project
when you are looking at the entire Kekaha, multi-million dollars. It is not
something that the Council is just going say okay. I do not appreciate the
assurances. We were just told today that the project was not approved yet. just
toady, from Administration today and yet you were told that it was approved. I can
tell you it is right here, pending grants, recommended by the CAC May 2012
pending the Mayor's approval. So, not only is the right hand not telling the left
hand, but the right hand is telling other people different thing than he is telling the
left hand. We will definitely take a look at that. Maybe they did not let Beth know.
Any questions for Buddie? Councilmember Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes. Well, for all of the uncles, first of all,
thank you for your work on this. It is a really big vision in terms of what can
happen for the Kekaha community and like you said, you have been working a long
time on it but when you are trying to do something new, it sometimes takes a long
time. Yes, sometimes there have are all of these requirements and things. But if
you persevere, I am sure you will get to your goal. We want to help and there
remains to be some pieces to be put together yet. there is this additional forty-one
thousand dollars ($41,000) that was not in the budget because it was based on the
solid waste fees that did not happen. But still nonetheless, it did stay in the budget
so it is possible for you to work with. I think I do — this is such a big project, you do
need some management and there are issues yet that you have to work out, right?
Even with KIUC because I have a photovoltaic system myself and I will tell you,
when what that cloud goes over the energy just drops, what you get. So, you are
going to make sure you have the backup and all of that. But do not give up because
you are onto a really good thing and I know that everybody wants to make it work.
Chair Rapozo: Questions please, just questions.
Councilmember Kagawa.
Mr. Kagawa: This is my question, is there disagreement
between you folks and the Board?
Mr. Ayudan: We have no disagreements. Everybody had
worked really hard at all of this and everybody is trying to look at best possibilities
EPC COMMITTEE 24 MAY 15, 2013
for our community. Although everybody had a different job in the picture, like
JoAnn just stated, we worked with the County really good. We worked with KIUC.
We worked with our CAC Board. Everybody has a piece of the pie in here and
everybody's concern is to make sure that we do the right things. To reiterate, if we
did the right things, I think the answer comes from the community and the
community overwhelmed and the only question they have is when do we first with
our first dollar? When you folks come out to our meetings, if there is no
productivity there is nothing that you are happy with and you give us all the funds,
you give people and the County staff to get it going, and we are stuck right here. I
do not think so. It should not be that way because we need to work through all of
the problems. I am almost positive all of our problems have been met and on the
side of the County's side to further and to do better for our County that was part of
the reason why the funds were given to us because it is not only for Kekaha.
Kekaha is just one of our towns on this island. The rest of the community will take
this template and they will run with it too. So, that is the benefit to the island and
the County.
Mr. Kagawa: I guess, I asked the question whether there
was disagreement because if you folks and the Board are okay on this, obviously the
community is behind it, you have the Mayor's Office is behind, you have us behind
it, where are we going wrong? Where is the problem? You know when the Police
say, where is the problem and we can solve it.
Mr. Pereira: Okay, I am going to tell you where the
problem is. Number one, we had to get a management of these big moneys.
Number two, nobody gave us the protocol on how to get the management. So, it was
left on our shoulders, right? It was left on our shoulders. So, we go and get the
management. But now how come, because the CAC is asking the same questions as
you folks. How come you are going get management and we have no see and the
Mayor is giving them sixty thousand dollars 60 000 yet to run the program?
Y g g Y �� � ) Y p g
Chair Rapozo: Mr. Pereira, I have to stop you because your
time is up, his time is up.
Mr. Pereira: Okay, he asked me to say here.
Chair Rapozo: No, I know. I want to continue this
discussion.
Mr. Pereira: Mel, can I tell you something?
Chair Rapozo: Yes
Mr. Pereira: Can I say something?
Chair Rapozo: Sure.
EPC COMMITTEE 25 MAY 15, 2013
Mr. Pereira: I do not want to hurt any feelings because I
think you are wonderful bunch of people — I cannot do the job even that much what
you folks do. But I will tell you something, it is chicken feed what Kekaha
community is receiving for the landfill.
Chair Rapozo: I agree.
Mr. Pereira: It is chicken feed. We are going to end up
with the landfill almost seventy (70) years or sixty (60) something years and that is
what we get? Yes, we have to name is after everything is done. The landfill is going
to stay there, Mount `Opala, Kekaha.
Chair Rapozo: You are right. To me the forty-one thousand
dollars ($41,000) increase had nothing to do with the tax increase or the commercial
tipping fee increase. I was hoping to put more money without that because I think
you folks deserve it. But that is another discussion. Anyway, I have to ask you
folks to step down really quick because I want to get one (1) more testifier. We will
break at 12:45 p.m. If you are going to hang around, we may call you back up later.
You will be the last one before lunch, Mr. Bulatao. By the way, I asked staff to pass
around this letter that appears to be the approval dated March 27, 2013 for this
project, the Solarized Kekaha Project, request for final approval. Again, it was
signed by the Mayor on May 27, 2013 which is interesting because that is not what
was presented today. Thank you. Go ahead, Mr. Bulatao.
JOSE BULATAO, JR.: Good afternoon. I do not know where to
begin, but I will try to my best to cover the territory as applicable to the topic we are
discussing. First of all, I want to acknowledge the work of the uncle, so to speak, in
terms of their tireless efforts in focusing their time and their attention in proposing
a project of such magnitude that it has required the close attention of people like
you, people from the Administration, people from the community, and when
Mr. Kagawa asked a question about, "Gee, with so many people in back of you, why
are we having problems?" We certainly are having problems and I think you have
already touched upon and certainly Patrick has put his finger on the problem to a
certain extent. It is a lack of appropriate communication between all of the parties
involved in what is happening. I want to go back to where we started with this
whole thing in terms of how it all came about because Mel was sitting across the
table from me at the Waimea Neighborhood Center when we were informed that the
landfill would remain where it is for however long. It was from that, that the Host
Community Benefits Citizens' Advisory Committee was established. You folks who
are seating in your seats that were elected Officials at that time came up with the
six hundred fifty thousand dollars ($650,000) that we began with and then in
subsequent years we received more money. Those of us who had the privilege of
being appointed to work over the array of possible project proposals that came to
our attention for us to review so that we could make the recommendation and it
could find its way to actualization. Now, we come to this particular project of such
magnitude in terms of dollars for us to deal with and the manner and style in which
EPC COMMITTEE 26 MAY 15, 2013
this went into the meetings with not everybody present. I want to point this out,
that when we were subjected to Sunshine Law because I serve as an Advisor to E
Ola Mau Na Leo 0 Kekaha, I could not participate I the process because I was a
member of the CAC also and it was considered to be a conflict of interest. I accepted
that. I could not even ask a question for clarification of what was happening in the
process and what was going on because I had to recuse myself from everything.
Now it came to a point when the recommendation was made, solidly with the idea
backing up the idea that the photovoltaic project is a good one.
Chair Rapozo: That is your first three (3) minutes. You can
continue.
Mr. Bulatao: Why did it take so long for some kind of
agreement to come into a basis for which this things could move forward? The
problem was, and still is, we are working in unchartered territory, unchartered
waters. For instance, if we are going to take public funding coming to a community
and we are going to consider the possibility of a loaning option to be considered that
was presented when the thing warped from one thing to another, as was pointed
out, and then told here, that we are going back to the original and the CAC does not
even know that officially. How do we going to deal with what we are going to deal
with. We do not know. You do not know. Who does? Who does? Unless and until
we have that opportunity to bring all parties to the table because there are things
that you have not yet heard. Who was sitting in that room when KIUC said this,
that or other? What other possible options are there for the community of Kekaha
to consider because the basic idea was we wanted to bring to the community of
Kekaha the means by which their bills for electricity in this particular case could be
lowered, that is what we wanted to do. When we went back to the uncles, as you
will, I asked them, is there any other thing which we could be looking at? Should
we maybe consider other options? What about a solar water heater system or
something of that nature? Maybe should we go from electric stoves to gas stoves?
What can we consider that would lower the bills of our community residents? When
we were told, with several hundred thousand dollars we may at best service eighty
(80) homes, eighty (80) homes in a community that has a thousand (1,000). Is that
the best we can do? Is that the best way we can spend all of that money? That is
{ why we asked can you look for something else and they did. They were putting
heart and soul into their effort. Now we do not agree with everything, neither do
you. But in the process of trying to find out what is best, we have to go through that
dialogue.
Chair Rapozo: Mr. Bulatao, that is your six (6) minutes. If
you could summarize.
Mr. Bulatao: I will wind up with this. I would hope that
you pay attention to the details as I have been trying to do myself. Regardless of
which hat I am wearing whether it is the CAC Committee Member or the Advisor of
the fiscal sponsor, that really does not know beans about what is going on or as a
EPC COMMITTEE 27 MAY 15, 2013
Kekaha resident. I think we owe ourselves the best and finest that we can render
the community. Thank you.
Chair Rapozo: Thank you Mr. Bulatao. Are you going to be
here after lunch?
Mr. Bulatao: No.
Chair Rapozo: Any questions for Mr. Bulatao before he
departs? Thank you very much. I will call the meeting back to order.
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Chair Rapozo: It is 12:45 p.m. We will take our lunch
break now and we will be back at 1:45 p.m. and try to be back on time so we can get
started on time, we can get through this thing. Thank you.
There being no objections, the committee recessed at 12:46 p.m.
There being no objections, the Committee reconvened at 1:51 p.m., and
proceeded as follows:
Chair Rapozo: Was there anyone else wishing to testify?
Mr. Pleas.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
BRUCE PLEAS: Are we ready? I am the Chair of the Kekaha
Host Community Benefit. I am also a member of the Waimea Air Quality Study
and that is presently all I am associated with. This testimony is as a member of the
CAC.
Chair Rapozo: An individual member?
Mr. Pleas: Yes. I am going to go through my notes I
have here. The question was the sixty thousand dollars ($60,000) for the E Ola Mau
PV Project, that was a line item that you deferred or did not accepted in the budget
items. What I would like to put forward on that is that these four (4) gentlemen
have been working very hard. They are worth sixty thousand dollars ($60,000)
each, you have a quarter million dollars that they are working for you. What the
sixty thousand dollars ($60,000), what I perceive at this point, I am not really super
clear as to what it is for — that would be to help with the management of the funds
and to write a project report to the Mayor that we can use as a template for other
communities. Having been around the government quite a bit to do a study, a plan,
a design and build for a project this size is probably in excess of one hundred
EPC COMMITTEE 28 MAY 15, 2013
thousand dollars ($100,000) if not a two hundred fifty thousand dollars ($250,000)
to get the same information you would get on from an on hands project that would
be done. I hope that somewhere along the line that there will be moneys available
to get this project forward with those moneys. We made a promise to the members
of the Kekaha community that of the money allocated for the PV project in Kekaha
all of that would be spent for hard materials on their roofs. I made that promise
and I will keep that. All of the moneys, the seven hundred eighty thousand dollars
($780,000) and any moneys that come forward, will go to the residents of Kekaha.
There will have to be funding for the Manager and report writing which I think
sixty thousand dollars ($60,000) is a good deal honestly. But I understand why you
did not go through with it because you did not have any information and hopefully if
you have more information over a while that can be remedied. On the proposals —
you had the initial proposal, you had how it warped into five (5) the options when
Mel came and then it came to the original proposal. When we first put it out we
gave them leeway and said look into different options and see what can be done.
They did and then in the Mayor's they came up with the five (5) options. They came
back to us and we looked at them and I thought some of them were very good
myself, I thought they were very good. But the consensus at the CAC was that no,
this was confusing to many of them. It went back to the community. The
community meeting of two hundred fifty (250) people of a community of three
thousand (3,000) people, which is a good ratio, that is pretty much the community
voice. They wanted to go back to the original proposal which was the rating system
and ranking for the elderly to get it and it would go onto the roofs. The main
consensus at that meeting was do it now. We are waiting. We want it done because
they have seen government moneys disappear. But one of the things that was
interesting that came you was that the community was very vocal on having a
transparent process for the selection and how these would be done, all of this, and
that. This is something that the sixty thousand dollars ($60,000) for a Manager
would be important in taking that forward and be very helpful. Four (4) people
came up and said that. So, that is important, I am taking that forward. Where we
are now is on this PV project, we are in limbo. We do not know what is going on.
Where do not know where it is going and the CAC will meet next Wednesday. You
are invited to come —hard night to come. But our minutes are there and this will be
brought up and we will see where we are at this point. That pretty much covers the
highlights that I have here and I thank you.
Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you Bruce. I wanted to thank Jose,
too. He passionately kind of clarified some of the questions that I had about
whether there was any disconnect going on and it just seems like questions that he
had. I guess, he just wanted some options. But it seems like you folks are settled. I
was just wondering when I was speaking about keeping in the forty-one thousand
dollars ($41,000) that was attributed with the tipping fee increases and I was
speaking about that the County Council decided to leave that moneys in because I
said, I thought it was very unfair to the Kekaha and the whole West Side
1
EPC COMMITTEE 29 MAY 15, 2013
community when we decided we are going to go with vertical expansion. I sort of
thought that leaving it in there was because we failed to inform the community
prior that that was coming. I kind of saw you folks shaking your head. I do not
know if you were shaking the head at that wanting to keep the money. Do you folks
want that money or not, the forty-one thousand dollars ($41,000)?
Mr. Pleas: I cannot speak for the CAC, but I can speak
for myself as a member.
Mr. Kagawa: Yes.
Mr. Pleas: We appreciate every single penny that comes
forward to help the community of Kekaha. With the fiscal stature of the County at
this point, due to the fact that the tipping fees were not increased and that there is
not enough money in the County — there is not an excess of money. So, with the
tipping fees not being increased, myself, I would have no objections to the forty-one
thousand dollars ($41,000) being taken away. I am probably getting into big, deep
ditch with everyone in the community. But I speak straight and I speak truthfully
because it is not money that is there. Now, let me finish. That gives you as the
Councilmembers the option to reallocate that forty-one thousand dollars ($41,000),
since it is not really available in monetary moneys this year, to transfer that to the
Manager of the PV system. I will gladly accept the money. But if this is five (5)
years ago, I would say run and take it because there was money in the County. But
with this way, I myself, if it is taken away, I am not going to cry spilled milk.
Mr. Kagawa: Okay. You have answered my question. I
want to make it clear to you that we are not in excess of money. I just feel as a
West Side resident all my life, that I feel that the Kekaha Landfill has been
extended beyond. We were looking at possibilities or options of ending that landfill
there, twenty (20) years ago when I used to work here. I mean, it has gone above
and beyond in height, literally, above and beyond where we really intended that
landfill to go. I just felt this forty-one thousand dollars ($41,000) was a fair
compensation for the rash decision we made last year to all of a sudden go with
another height expansion and that was just my justification. I want to make that
clear to you that I am not disrespecting the Kekaha Host Community Committee by
adding that money without your knowledge. I want what is best for you folks and
when you bring forth to us some of the issues you are dealing with, I think, in fact,
we are relying on you folks or your Committee, the community, and the four (4)
leaders to decide what is best for Kekaha. I think I stated that earlier. I think it is
best that way. You folks are out there having meetings in the community. We do
not get testifiers from the community here very often unless it is really pointed at a
specific issue that they have. We are relying on you folks to carry out what is best
for the community. My only question is, and if you have this figure because I am
doing accounting now that you brought it up. Seven hundred eighty thousand
dollars ($780,000), you folks are projecting how many houses to get that initial PV
system on? If I divide seven hundred eighty thousand dollars ($780,000) divided by
EPC COMMITTEE 30 MAY 15, 2013
what I see in building permits thirty five thousand dollars ($35,000), I get about
twenty-two (22) people. But you folks have an initial benefit of about a one hundred
(100). So, I am trying to rationalize the difference.
Mr. Pleas: The seven hundred eighty thousand dollars
($780,000) is the current status reserved for PV. The systems to be put up are
approximately two (2) kilowatt systems. They run around ten thousand dollars
($10,000) each. So, there gets your numbers. Now...
Mr. Furfaro: You have answered his question.
Mr. Kagawa: You have answered my question.
Mr. Pleas: Okay.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you.
Mr. Furfaro: This is not additional testimony. This is
responding to members' questions. I just wanted to point that out, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you, I am done.
Chair Rapozo: Go ahead, Mr. Chair, you can have the floor.
Mr. Furfaro: I wanted to say something earlier, but I am
not a member. First of all, to the members of the community, I want to say that I
was one who voted for the sixty thousand dollars ($60,000) and to me it was not
about not having enough information. Throughout our island we have five (5)
Districts and developers pay a fee into a trust to those Districts for development.
The landfill expansion, to me, I could justify the sixty thousand dollars ($60,000)
because it is a development. We are developing a landfill. Now if you look around
you will see districts like Koloa District has three hundred forty thousand dollars
($340,000) from developer charges. You have got a district like Hanalei, eight
hundred twenty-two thousand dollars ($822,000). Those are fees that are going into
this trust. You look at the West Side, very little development. They have eight
hundred thousand dollars ($800,000), but they are hosting the expansion of the
landfill. The County is the applicant and as the applicant we should have had some
kind of assessment towards that development and that is how in my mind I voted
for the sixty thousand dollars ($60,000). I think it is fair and reasonable, not to
confuse it with the allocation from the Host Community Benefits. Tipping fees go
up, the portion that goes into the CAC should naturally go up with the tipping fees.
Now, we had a Bill on tipping fees to go up, that in fact, did not pass. But the
anticipated exposure for that increase is in the budget which is the forty-one
thousand dollars ($41,000). I would plead with you folks to understand that there is
a need to manage a sizable project of more than seven hundred fifty thousand
dollars ($750,000). This is a development. The Kekaha/Waimea District should be
EPC COMMITTEE 31 MAY 15, 2013
getting that sixty thousand dollars ($60,000). That is how I justified it in my vote
because it is everybody's `opala but it is in their District. I wanted to say that to all
of you folks. Please consider that forty-one thousand dollars ($41,000) that was left
in the budget as something that can be used for the discussion and purpose that we
have now. I did not need a lot more information from the Administration. I saw
that as a separate development fee because it is going up. I do not want to confuse
it to the allocation that goes to the West Side because of tipping fees going up. But
that money is there and I would like to see it used that way again. Thank you for a
moment to share my mana`o and I need to go down and take care of other things
since I do not vote in this Committee.
Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Do you have a question for
Bruce? Go ahead.
Ms. Yukimura: So Bruce, the forty-one thousand dollars
($41,000) that I think was labeled in the budget as Host Community Benefits, I
think I hear you saying if it was converted towards the sixty thousand dollars
($60,000) that was asked for, that would be a useful thing to your process of the
photovoltaic project. Is there a problem with it being a Host Community Benefit
and will it take a lot of effort to convert it at your level towards the sixty thousand
dollars ($60,000)?
Mr. Pleas: Yes. It is easier if it is allocated as a
facilitator/consultant for the PV project because basically all the moneys that come
into the HCB funds are allocated and dedicated to the Kekaha community. We
went through the process of having fees of ten thousand dollars ($10,000) of the
twenty-five dollars ($25) that we did for consultants and basically the word we put
out that we heard from the community, all of these moneys need to be put into hard
objects and benefit the community. For a consultant to be paid should be an out of
HCB funds. If it was as a facilitator/consultant, that is much easier to deal with
because it goes to a certain area and Mel's concerns about RFPs as a justified point
and that needs to be in writing done, too so that that money is free and clear for the
PV project to use without any possible litigation going on as to how it was
distributed. As for the RFP process, I have serious problems with an RFP process if
it is designated that we take the lowest bidder because sometimes the lowest bidder
is not the best work. We next the best work coming out of the information of what
Kekaha has gone through over the last two (2) years and the next two (2) years so
that they next community that gets it, it is pretty much laid as to out how this
works, what this is going to cost, and I think you get a bigger "bang for your buck"
by getting a better facilitator and it would greatly help the four (4) gentlemen in
what would be done. They do the leg work, they do it all themselves. But I do not
think — it is a little out of their realm to provide the information that would be
beneficial for the rest of the island.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you.
EPC COMMITTEE 32 MAY 15, 2013
Chair Rapozo: Any more questions for Bruce? Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: Bruce, I hear everything that you are saying
about wanting all the funds to go to tangible, physical changes and what I just want
to say because I am a blunt speaker too, you do a big project like this, that is not
realistic. Every project like this has Administrative costs. Even the amount that
you have given in smaller grants, the receivers of that, I assume, are going to use
some of that for Administrative costs. If not, if they use it for this, it is hard costs
that they saved that they would have paid. The idea is to administer a non-profit,
to administer a project, takes Administration. So, you do not want to touch the
seven hundred eighty thousand dollars ($780,000) that you have set. You have one
hundred thirty-seven thousand dollars ($137,000) left this year and you will get an
additional one hundred sixty thousand dollars ($160,000) on July 1st, use those
funds to pay the Administrative costs. It is unreasonable to expect that a project
P Y p p J
like this will not have some Administrative costs. Lobby the Council to increase the
Host Community Benefits like the community has done and we have supported.
Lobby to us to keep the interest which we supported. But you do a big project like
this —you understand that these things have Administrative costs, right?
Mr. Pleas: Yes, we do. We have been through that with
the other projects and we have a great pool of volunteers in Kekaha because
basically we, the gentlemen that were here, and the CAC has presented to the
community and the community has embraced us and told us back that this money is
for the community.
Mr., Bynum: Okay, so I what to...
Mr. Pleas: I know it is very hard for that. But the
projects that are there have gone forward and if you look at them, the
administrative fees are minimal to none because they get the grant and they find
the people to do the Administrative fees. We do not support Administrative fees
and we understand...
Mr. Bynum: I do not want to debate it or belabor it. I just
want to say, you understand that typically projects of this side have administrative
costs?
Mr. Pleas:
Yes.
Mr. Bynum: As a Director of a non-profit in the past and
working on plenty of them, we get a twenty-five thousand dollars ($25,000) grant
and we use all of it to buy materials or whatever it is for, but the Administrator
knows okay, we would have used these funds. But now we have the grant so we will
use those and it frees up some Administrative expenses. I mean, the administrative
expenses are a reality even for the grants that you give out. They are doing it
within their budgets, it is helping that, and you are getting more. But not every
EPC COMMITTEE 33 MAY 15, 2013
single penny is going to the intended purpose because it is just not realistic. That is
my opinion.
Chair Rapozo: Any more questions for Mr. Pleas? There
will be time for commentary when the meeting is called back to order. But any
questions? If not, thank you, Bruce. Anyone else wishing to testify?
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order and
proceeded as follows:
Chair Rapozo: Let us take the tape change, five (5) minutes.
Stay in your seats, please.
There being no objections, the Committee recessed at 2:13 p.m.
There being no objections, the Committee reconvened at 2:18 p.m., and
proceeded as follows:
Chair Rapozo: The rules are suspended. Beth, while you
are getting up here, I am probably going to ask the Committee to defer this matter
for two (2) weeks. that will give us the opportunity to send questions over to the
Administration as well as the CAC, if necessary so we can have a much better
discussion with more information. I know Councilmembers have some specifics and
I do not want to waste all the time here without the people here without the people
here so that is the intent anyway of the Chair and it will be my suggestion. But I
know you wanted to address the letter.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Ms. Tokioka: Yes. I just wanted to address real quickly
the document passed outs so you had some context on that because it caused a little
stir in the room. Without explanation, I can see why it would. What happened with
that letter was that after the presentation was made at the February meeting for
the CAC and there were options were presented and the CAC had a lot of questions
and really expressed an interest in going back to the original proposal versus
thinking of anything else. The uncles needed to kind of regroup after that and
wanted to go back out to the community one more time with a final proposal to
hopefully get back the reinforcement that the community was still on board and
supporting the project. They kind of regrouped at that point and we were not really
sure what they were going to present. But they scheduled the meeting for April 3rd
and they asked to meet with the Mayor prior to that. I think it was May 27th was
the date on that letter. So, they came in to meet with the Mayor...
Chair Rapozo: March 27th.
EPC COMMITTEE 34 MAY 15, 2013
Ms. Tokioka: March 27th, sorry. They came to meet with
the Mayor and basically share with him where they were at, what they wanted to
present to the community, and they wanted an assurance if they went forward with
this and the community was on board, that the Mayor could support it. In other
words, they did not want to go out to a roomful of two hundred fifty (250) people and
pitch a project and then come back to the Mayor and the Mayor says, "No, well, I
have all of these concerns." So, that was basically the th gist of the meeting where
g g
they wanted the reassurance that they addressed all the Mayor's concerns and that
he was ready to move forward if the community concurred. So, that is what that
agreement was really for their reassurance and they wanted it in writing that the
Mayor felt that they had addressed the concerns. So he did, but it was
communicated in that meeting that it was predicated upon acceptance by the
community and acceptance by the CAC because this is not the Mayor's project. This
is truly from the community and we are trying to make it happen. But it is not
something that the Mayor would impose on the community if they did not want it.
It was very clear that this agreement was a reassurance predicated on the
re-affirmed support of the community and the continued support of the CAC. I
think that next week we will have a CAC meeting and we will, it think, have a
better idea of where the CAC stands on this project after that meeting and whether
or not it is ready to move forward. But technically from a technical standpoint, we
feel that they have addressed all of our concerns, it is ready to go as long as the
community and CAC wants it. So, that is what that piece of paper is.
Chair Rapozo: Okay. But you understand that that is not
what the paper says. The paper is the signature of the Mayor basically confirms the
final approval of the Solarized Kekaha Project. I understand what the meaning
was. But what was reduced to writing and which he signed is a commitment or a
final approval of the project. I guess I bring this up because that is why we have
some much pilikia in the community because you have one (1) of the uncles that is
under the impression it is approved by the Mayor, but that is not the case and that
is what I am hearing now. It is not — even as we speak today, you are saying that
he has not formally approved the project.
Ms. Tokioka: Right. After the meeting, so the meet
happened April 3rd and I did attend. It was really overwhelming support for the
project and from the community's standpoint, I did not have any hesitation in
recommending to the Mayor that the community is ready to go. But to me the CAC
is the important piece here because he has always committed that projects will be
recommended by the CAC and that is what he will consider.
Chair Rapozo: I think that was the original intent of this
whole program back when the moneys were first allocated it was that the CAC was
going to be the recommending Agency and no one else. It would take the politics
out of it, it would be the community's voice, and I really appreciate the Mayor
holding to that.
EPC COMMITTEE 35 MAY 15, 2013
Ms. Tokioka: Exactly.
Chair Rapozo: In fact, that is the way it should be done.
Mr. Tokioka: I let Bruce now, after the community
meeting the next week we had a CAC meeting and I let Bruce know that all systems
were go at this point in terms of them addressing the concerns. The community
seems to be behind it. The Mayor is ready to approve and should we write a letter
because in the year before we informed them that we had approved the other grants
via letter. The Mayor wrote them and said, "I approved all of these and this one is
pending further work." Bruce asked me to hold off because he really felt the CAC
needs to hear the update after a year and then just reaffirm the support. So, we
said, "Sure, we will wait until after that CAC meeting and then hopefully then I all
systems would be a go." So, that is how that unfolded.
Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Councilmember Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: You mentioned about all the technicalities
being addressed. I do have one concern about what I heard is KIUC's concerned
about issue of so much photovoltaic and whether there is sufficient backup, I guess.
Ms. Tokioka: Right, yes.
Ms. Yukimura: Has that issue been resolved because I was
thinking that part of this consultation money would go toward addressing that and
that still is a factor that has to be resolve, right?
Ms. Tokioka: Yes. KIUC has been in the conversation
form the beginning. They have not told us that the project cannot happen, but there
are some challenges. So, that will continue to be something that we have to address
going forward. I think Buddie and the uncles have been in regular communication
KIUC and they do have some concerns, but they have not told us it is a no go. It is
just that we will need to work within their framework and probably adjust the
project as necessary to meet their needs.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. I mean, I think that piece has to be
worked out clearly because I would hate for it to go so far and then due to a
technicality, not be able to reach the goal that the project is aimed towards.
Ms. Tokioka: And I apologize. I do not have the technical
expertise on this. You will be happy to know that Ben Sullivan is the fellow
handling the technical side of it because I am limited in my knowledge of
re-newables. But Ben could speak to that. It could be a question that we would be
happy to answer.
EPC COMMITTEE 36 MAY 15, 2013
Chair Rapozo: It will be. It will be not only for Ben, but for
KIUC as well because when we spoke to KIUC, there is a good possibility that they
need to upgrade the transformer out there which would add substantial costs which
would have to be dispersed amongst the homes. It is not just that simple and that
was my point when we discussed sixty thousand dollars ($60,000). It is not
something that is that simple and we have not have the opportunity. So, that is
what this meeting was about and we will send the questions over, Beth and we will
get the right people here. Any more questions for Beth? Questions?
Ms. Yukimura: Yes. Well, on that issue, especially if there is
thought going beyond the first phase which will mean a higher quantity, then that
question really has to be answered upfront.
Chair Rapozo: Well, the real question, if we cannot get even
to phase one, to the first phase, then we really have some issues. Mr. Hooser.
Mr. Hooser: The meeting in April, you said there was
overwhelming community support? Was is for support of this?
Ms. Tokioka: It was support of the same project. When
the uncles came to me with the Mayor, they presented to me what they presented to
the community on April 3rd and it was basically the same project. They came back
to the community, they have come full circle with the project that they presented
and actually some of the reaction that night was, "Why are you asking us again?
Why have you not done it already?"
Mr. Hooser: Is this the project that they expressed
overwhelming support and what the Mayor signed?
Ms. Tokioka: Yes
Mr. Hooser: Because it talks about the loan grant
program too, so I was not sure.
Ms. Tokioka: Well, part of that is for those who do receive
a system because they do not fall into the criteria high enough, part of that would
be providing themselves resources to access those types of programs on their own.
It would be an educational component for those who do not make the cut, but could
possibly take advantage of other programs.
Mr. Hooser: It is not sitting aside part of the seven
hundred thousand dollars ($700,000) plus for loans?
Ms. Tokioka: No, it is not.
EPC COMMITTEE 37 MAY 15, 2013
Mr. Hooser: It was proved at that meet and now it is
going again to be approved on the 22nd?
Ms. Tokioka: No. At the community meeting or which?
Mr. Hooser: Oh, I am sorry. It was a community
meeting, it was not a CAC meeting?
Ms. Tokioka: Right, it was a community meeting, correct.
Mr. Hooser: So, the CAC meeting is the designated
organization that is supposed to represent the community?
Ms. Tokioka: Correct.
Mr. Hooser: And that is going to be on the 22nd?
Ms. Tokioka: The 22nd, yes.
Mr. Hooser: The CAC has or has not approved this?
Ms. Tokioka: The CAC approved the original proposal
back last year and what they want to do at this point is an update as to what
happened the last year, whether it is the same project or has changed, and I think
what Bruce wanted was just for them to just reaffirm that they still support the
project based on where it is now.
Mr. Hooser: Is there a project description more than this
in terms of the detail of the project?
Ms. Tokioka: There is the original grant application,
although I think the project is not the same as the grant application because of the
work we have been doing to fortify it.
Mr. Hooser: I imagine before the Mayor would support at
the end of the day before he approved something, would have a package or this is
what we are approving and the criteria?
Ms. Tokioka: Yes.
Mr. Hooser: The details so to speak.
Ms. Tokioka: I think Ben has that. He has been working
directly with them on the framework of the proposal.
Mr. Hooser: Thank you.
EPC COMMITTEE 38 MAY 15, 2013
Chair Rapozo: Thank you.
Ms. Yukimura: I think what is missing from the report we
have gotten today from all of the different participants is the fact that there was a
different proposal made after the original one was and it was more of a loan
program that would make the funds last and allow for the recycling of the funds.
But that one the community said they did not want. They wanted the original idea
of grant money to qualifying families, right?
Ms. Tokioka: Yes, exactly.
Ms. Yukimura: And that was part of the back and forth that
went on.
Ms. Tokioka: Even in the audience that evening there
were younger people who obviously were not going to qualify. I was struck by that.
They were very supportive of it. They said give it to the kupuna. I felt very
confident after that meeting and I know they went door-to-door, they put a flier on
everybody's doorstep, and it was a really big turnout. The community really is very
comfortable with this and even with the limited number of homes that will be
addressed.
Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Any more questions of Beth? If
not, thank you, Beth. We will call the meeting — I think you are done, Bruce. I do
not know what the time is on Bruce. Is he done? I am sorry, Bruce. Buddie, how
about Buddie? Did Buddie have six (6) or three (3)? He was separate, but he spoke
after Pat. Okay, Buddie. You have three (3) minutes, Buddie.
Mr. Ayudan: First of all, I want to thank everybody for
hearing us today. The other three (3) uncles had things to get done. To reiterate on
some of the things, we are getting a lot of support from everybody regardless of
what our thoughts and issues are. The homework that we do, literally was done in
the intent to do whatever was needed and anything possibly that had to be curtailed
in the whole project. Like Mr. Bynum said, I worked for a company before that we
were empowered to do things to progress forward and to have a lot of things
accomplished. Some of the questions and answers, yes/no because we are the ones
that are doing the proposal. We took it upon ourselves to make sure that we
covered all of the bases so that we could answer all of the questions. We literally
took in all of the questions and answers and from the County and the CAC, and we
ventured g
rior to doing a lot of this, to all the entities that were to be touched into
p
doing this project. The only knowledgeable portion about KIUC, there is no real
answer for anybody in the County to be truthful. Today I know the permitting
process for photovoltaic farms have been limited. There are not any more
performances given to my knowledge. At this point, the residential systems that
are going, they are done individually and for us the quantity that we will gain from
the finds that we have, it will be roughly about one hundred fifty (150)/one hundred
EPC COMMITTEE 39 MAY 15, 2013
forty (140), in that vicinity because we got the structure done from the vendors that
give us consultant advice that they can do it for roughly five thousand five hundred
dollars ($5,500) for two and a half(21 ) kilowatt systems. It is not going to erase the
bill entirely, but it is a benefit we wanted to pursue for the residents. Now, the
uncles that are up here, we are all purchasing our own and it is not something that
you have to be a brain scientist. I think KIUC has us given a lot of information and
we know what our structure is in the community are. We know how it is graded
and we know how the process is applied. Our pro bono coordinator that jumped in
the picture with us, we have been there, done that, we ripped this apart so we know
what our capabilities are and how we progress in the district that we are in.
Chair Rapozo: Buddie, if you can wrap it up real quick.
Mr. Ayudan: The questions that you might have, maybe
we have not enough time right now, but if you need to, you can give us a call and we
can kind of fill them in. Like I say, everybody has been so helpful. As much as we
care, I know you guys care. I thank the County, I thank our Council and everyone
of you.
Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Any questions? I know
Mr. Kagawa and then Councilmember Yukimura.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you, Buddie. Thank you for the
clarification. I came up with comparing what has been showing up in the building
permit which is far different. I would like to commend your Committee for trying to
spread it out as much as possible with being reasonable. So two and a half (2%)
kilowatts system, how much does that save per month in electricity, approximately?
Mr. Ayudan: It is a ten thousand (10,000) panel system.
It will reduce your bill, if you have a bill like roughly about one hundred twenty
dollars ($120), it is nearly gone. I think you even have some credit coming to you.
The pre-purchase agreement that the people voted on, the reason we did it is
because for twenty (20) years, you will not do any maintenance. You have all of the
insurance coverages on everything. Hurricanes, you name it. The responsibility
falls in the third party that is selling this. It is something where people are not
knowledgeable yet today. So, you cannot just jump on the roof and go wash down
these things. You might do damage to it. We considered all of the avenues and
possibilities are. The best way is to purchase it. But you have to accomplish the
insurance portion and it is not so simple with the insurance companies today. We
even did that portion of checking. You have to get on a different policy.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you. You answer my question and
like I said, just I look forward to us moving on this because I think it has clearly
shown that the community wants it, Bruce and the Committee wants it, you have
put in a lot of time, the Mayor wants it, and we want it so let us do whatever we can
to support you folks in moving forward. Thank you.
EPC COMMITTEE 40 MAY 15, 2013
Mr. Ayudan: Thank you.
Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: I, too, I have never seen such a community
based effort as you folks have done. If you have gone door-to-door and gotten people
out and gotten that kind of unanimity that is very impressive. My question is, what
company did you work for that was based on empowering their employees?
Mr. Ayudan: I worked for National Aeronautics and Space
Administration (NASA) before when I was young. We put up all the polymer
stations. But the company that really built me was Hawaiian Telephone, GT&E,
and Verizon. They also produced Mr. Gary Heu and Mr. Warren Haruki.
Ms. Yukimura: Very good. Thank you Buddie.
Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Buddie, just one question. Who
is the vendor that will be installing it?
Mr. Ayudan: Right now SunRun is one of the vendors and
on Kaua`i we have sat down with Solar Wide and we have sat down with A&B. I
have called the owner of SunRun literally to find out more information. I have
worked with Pancho Solar in O`ahu.
Chair Rapozo: It will be multiple vendors?
Mr. Ayudan: It is not something that we can pursue yet
because we have not had a dollar. Until we do this, you know like how you say how
the County puts things out to bid? It is basically the same thing. But to
comfortable with everybody, what we want to do is have them have a choice. If I
know you very well, I will call you. If I know JoAnn, I will call JoAnn. You have got
to have something you are comfortable with so that is part of it.
Chair Rapozo: That is good. But if we can make that
li happen legally, that is a good thing and that is just my concern because it is public
money, it is County money, it is taxpayer money, that I just have to be comfortable.
It is actually out of our hands. We do not control the spending of that money. This
body does not. That money goes over there and it is done and we have no say. The
Mayor has the final say to approve, we do not. I am just sharing my concerns.
Mr. Ayudan: The Mayor is entirely excited about this
because it is not only going to be for Kekaha. Yes, the funds are for Kekaha, but
this template is basically being made for the island of Kaua`i. So, whoever wants to,
it is not something that you have forced to. Even in our community, if you do not
want take one, we are not forcing you to take one. It is a choice. The younger
EPC COMMITTEE 41 MAY 15, 2013
generation, like what we say, the pricing structure of five thousand five hundred
dollars ($5,500) will be open to anybody.
Chair Rapozo: Well, they came to my house to do an
assessment for PV and it was twenty thousand dollars ($20,000) for my little house.
I just wanted to— and I will talk to you later, Buddie.
Mr. Ayudan: Twenty thousand dollars ($20,000)?
Chair Rapozo: Thousand dollars ($20,000), for a PV system.
Mr. Ayudan: So, your electric bill is about three hundred
ten dollars ($310) a month on the average?
Chair Rapozo: Pretty close.
Mr. Ayudan: Give or take.
Chair Rapozo: If you do not use the lights during the day,
you get really no benefit. Anyway, Buddie, we will talk later. Any more questions
for Buddie? If not, thank you very much, Buddie.
Mr. Ayudan: I thought Nadine had one.
Chair Rapozo: Oh, I am sorry. I could not see her.
Ms. Nakamura: I am okay.
Mr. Ayudan: Are you sure?
Ms. Nakamura: Okay, I will ask the question.
Chair Rapozo: We will more than likely be back in two (2)
weeks Buddie.
Mr. Ayudan: I really wanted everybody to ask me a
questions.
Ms. Nakamura: I will ask a question then. When I look in
the paper when people install PVs, it is about thirty-four thousand dollars ($34,000)
value. So, the question is, is it a lower output? Is that what brings down the cost?
Mr. Ayudan: What you see in the paper at thirty-four
thousand dollars ($34,000), to my knowledge for what information what I have
thirty-four thousand dollars ($34,000) is a bought price and it is a happy medium.
But for thirty-four thousand dollars ($34,000) what you are is something that will
EPC COMMITTEE 42 MAY 15, 2013
accommodate a bill of roughly two hundred ninety dollars ($290) to three hundred
forty dollars ($340) give or take. The reason for that is that your electric bill is
taken on an average and they will do the paperwork from there. But I know for a
fact that what we are doing to meet the needs, we took a smaller quantum size
which is only two and a half (2%) kilowatt system and made it so that at least
everybody would have something. On the bigger side, what you see on the
permitting process in the paper, that would accommodate something and if it fell
into your pre-purchase agreement of twenty (20) years, it would accommodate
something that would take roughly about fourteen (14) kilowatts a day.
Ms. Nakamura: That explains it. Thank you very much.
Mr. Ayudan: It is a larger system.
Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: I have a comment and question. My
comment is thank you very much. My heart is warmed by the work I heard happen
and even though there are issues to work out overall, I am very encouraged by
everything that I heard today. I think if the CAC agrees to fund this needed
facilitator, you folks are ready to go. It looks like the Mayor is saying as along as all
the ducks are lined up, I am behind it and you folks have done outstanding work.
My question is do you realize that what you are doing helps people in Kekaha, but it
helps everybody on this island and everybody on the planet because that electricity
is not going to be generated by fossil fuels that puts carbon in the atmosphere, it is
not going to be needed to be transported here which ships put carbon into the
atmosphere. So, this is win-win-win and I just really applaud you, everybody in the
community, the Mayor, and the Administration to work out most of the issues, I
think.
Mr. Ayudan: There is a whole lot more than just the story
of numbers and money.
Mr. Bynum: Exactly.
Mr. Ayudan: Because when you end up with a system, you
learn what you have done and accomplished. What we have in the Administration
portion to this is we will have classes for each of the individuals so they will be
gaining all of this knowledge that we were unaware of these past years. Also, we
are incorporated them in with the younger generation.
Mr. Bynum: Thank you so much.
Chair Rapozo: Any more questions?
Ms. Yukimura: One more question.
EPC COMMITTEE 43 MAY 15, 2013
Chair Rapozo: Go ahead.
Ms. Yukimura: The price differential that you have been
talking about here, part of it is economies of scale, right because I mean the pricing
in the newspaper for one system...
Chair Rapozo: A large system.
Ms. Yukimura: ...the pricing for one hundred (100) to per
unit is going to be lower.
Mr. Ayudan: Right.
Ms. Yukimura: Even if you have three (30 vendors, the unit
price should go down somewhat.
Mr. Ayudan: What we are into is quantity so we will be
bulk purchasing.
Ms. Yukimura: Right.
Mr. Ayudan: Whereas an individual goes in by himself.
So, what you pay thirty thousand dollars ($30,000) for, in reality after your tax
releases, you will end up with a system that costs you sixteen thousand dollars
($16,000). So, the price structure from thirty-two thousand dollars ($32,000) is
down to sixteen thousand dollars ($16,000).
Ms. Yukimura: Yes.
Mr. Ayudan: It is a larger system.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes. Your whole program will help families
access all of this, the tax benefits and the lower costs.
Mr. Ayudan: Right.
Ms. Yukimura: I mean the lower price.
Mr. Ayudan: Righty.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you.
Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Any more questions? If not,
thank you very much, Mr. Ayudan.
Mr. Ayudan: Thank you for having me.
EPC COMMITTEE 44 MAY 15, 2013
Chair Rapozo: Anyone else wishing to testify?
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Mr. Kagawa moved defer -
g owed to de er EPC 2013 05.
Chair Rapozo: No discussion? Go ahead.
Mr. Bynum: Just really briefly. I think even though there
are issues to work out, this was a significant update that we have not had for a
while and I heard a lot of positive things here today. I am optimistic that the
remaining issues can be resolved and hopefully by the community. At some level,
well, I also have the experience of working with County on large community projects
quite successfully and I trust that the County understands the procurement issues
and that there are provisions to allow and empower communities and that is one of
the advantages doing it that way because communities can do things more
efficiently. Thank you everyone for this good work and I am very hopeful.
Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Go ahead, Councilmember
Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: I just want to thank everybody who has been
working on this and who will continue to work on this until it comes to fruition. I
just want to of amplify on Buddie's last points which was that one thing about this
system is it makes you so conscious of your energy use and in so many ways that is
going to be a good thing.
Chair Rapozo: Mr. Kagawa.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you. I want to thank Chair for having
this on the agenda. It seems like a subject that we should avoid and let the Kekaha
Host Community Benefits take care of. However, we should take interest. We
should try to help them along and I think it is never a bad thing to listen and
discuss issues that are important. I want to thank you for what you do for the
Kekaha community. When it is all said and done, I think we all look back at it and
we will see a lot of positive results. I see a lot of grants going to schools, sports
groups, and everything else and it is been long overdue that the community of
Kekaha has been returned some of the benefits of having that landfill there. I just
want to plead to members that let us figure out a way to get the forty-one thousand
dollars ($41,000) out of the Host Community Benefits and let us add that instead
into a sixty thousand dollars ($60,000) Money Bill that will either go out of Mayor's
or the Office or Economic Development to finally push this project forward. Thank
you.
Chair Rapozo: Anyone else? If not, I will entertain a motion to defer.
EPC COMMITTEE 45 MAY 15, 2013
Upon motion duly made by Mr. Kagawa, seconded by Mr. Bynum, and
unanimously carried, EPC 2013-05 was deferred.
There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned 2:49 p.m.
Respectfully s itted,
Allison S. Arakaki
Council Services Assistant I
APPROVED at the Committee Meeting held on June 5, 2013:
MEL RAPOZO
CHAIR, EPC CO MITTEE