HomeMy WebLinkAbout 06/12/2013 Council Meeting Minutes COUNCIL MEETING
JUNE 12, 2013
The Council Meeting of the Council of the County of Kaua`i was called to
order by the Council Chair Jay Furfaro at the Council Chambers, 4396 Rice Street,
Room 201, Lihu`e, Kaua`i, on Wednesday, June 12, 2013 at 9:09 a.m., after which
the following members answered the call of the roll:
Honorable Tim Bynum (*left at 5:02 p.m.)
Honorable Gary L. Hooser (left at 5:02 p.m.)
Honorable Ross Kagawa
Honorable Nadine K. Nakamura
Honorable Mel Rapozo
Honorable JoAnn A. Yukimura
Honorable Jay Furfaro
*Mr. Bynum announced to the gallery that he was leaving for the day and
would not be returning for the remainder of the meeting. No excuse note was
circulated.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA.
Mr. Rapozo moved for approval of the agenda as circulated, seconded by
Ms. Yukimura, and unanimously carried.
MINUTES of the following meetings of the Council:
May 8, 2013 Council Meeting
May 15, 2013 Special Council Meeting
May 15, 2013 Public Hearing re: Resolution No. 2013-41
May 22, 2013 Public Hearing re: C 2013-186
May 28, 2013 Special Council Meeting
Mr. Rapozo moved to approve the Minutes as circulated, seconded by
Mr. Hooser and unanimously carried.
Chair Furfaro: Aloha, good morning. Before we get into our
formal start of today's Council Meeting, as posted, I would like to go over a couple of
housekeeping items. First of all, for the members, Bill No. 2460, Draft 1 for second
reading, is actually being deferred today. This deals with the Building Code and
the deferral is actually pending action any taken by the Governor, which has not
occurred yet. The second item today is Executive Session (ES) 629 and I am going
to ask for a deferral on that since both the State of Hawai`i Organization of Police
Officers (SHOPO), Hawai`i Fire Fighters Association (HFFA), and Hawai`i
Government Employees Association (HGEA) Collective Bargaining Agreements are
still pending. For ES-641 and ES-648 related to the Auditor's Office—although we
will be acting on Communication (C) 2013-225 related to additional moneys...the
other two (2) items, in fact, at the request of the Legal Counsel will be deferred. At
the request of the Vice Chair, C 2013-213 which is the Comprehensive Economic
Development Strategy (CEDS) Multi-Species Processing Facility and the
COUNCIL MEETING 2 JUNE 12, 2013
commercial kitchens— I have agreed to take those items first. I have also agreed
with Councilmember Yukimura to take Resolution No. 2013-57, "A Resolution
Establishing an Affordable Housing Advisory Committee" to take that second today.
Now on that note, I would like to start today's meeting after those housekeeping
announcements.
We have four (4) items on our Consent Calendar. This provides an
opportunity for anyone who wants to speak now on our Consent Calendar, allowing
you three (3) minutes. Is there anyone in the audience who wants to speak now,
rather than later on the Consent Calendar? Let the record show that I see no one.
Is there anyone who would like to speak now on any item on the Consent Calendar
for today? Let the record show that I see no one.
CONSENT CALENDAR:
C 2013-209 Communication (05/13/2013) from the Mayor, transmitting for
Council consideration, pursuant to Sections 89-11(g) and 89C-5, Hawai`i Revised
Statutes (HRS), the cost items for United Public Workers (UPW) Bargaining Unit 1
between July 1, 2013 and June 30, 2017, pursuant to Section 19.13(B) of the Kaua`i
County Charter: Mr. Rapozo moved to receive C 2013-209 for the record, seconded
by Ms. Yukimura, and unanimously carried.
C 2013-210 Communication (05/13/2013) from the Mayor, transmitting for
Council consideration, pursuant to Sections 89-11(g) and 89C-5, Hawai`i Revised
Statutes (HRS), the cost items for Hawai`i Government Employees Association
(HGEA) Bargaining Units 2, 3, and 4 between July 1, 2013 and June 30, 2015,
pursuant to Section 19.13(B) of the Kaua`i County Charter: Mr. Rapozo moved to
receive C 2013-210 for the record, seconded by Ms. Yukimura, and unanimously
carried.
C 2013-211 Communication (05/20/2013) from the Mayor, transmitting for
Council consideration and confirmation, Mayoral appointee Hugh A. Strom to the
Board of Water Supply for the County of Kaua`i – Term ending 12/31/2015:
Mr. Rapozo moved to receive C 2013-211 for the record, seconded by Ms. Yukimura,
and unanimously carried.
C 2013-212 Communication (06/06/2013) from Councilmember Yukimura,
transmitting for Council consideration, a Resolution Establishing an Affordable
Housing Advisory Committee: Mr. Rapozo moved to receive C 2013-212 for the
record, seconded by Ms. Yukimura, and unanimously carried.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you, members. Now we will go to our
Communications, Mr. Clerk.
RICKY WATANABE, County Clerk: Mr. Chair, did you want to take the
deferrals upfront of what you announced this morning?
Chair Furfaro: That is a great idea. I would like deferrals
on Bill No. 2460, Draft 1, ES-629, ES-641, and ES-648.
There being no objections, Bill No. 2460, Draft 1 was taken out of the order.
COUNCIL MEETING 3 JUNE 12, 2013
BILL FOR SECOND READING:
BILL NO. 2460, Draft 1 — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE
AMENDING CHAPTER 12, OF THE KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED,
ENTITLED "BUILDING CODE": Ms. Nakamura moved to defer Bill No. 2460,
Draft 1, seconded by Ms. Yukimura, and unanimously carried.
There being no objections, ES-629, ES-641, and ES-648 were taken out of the
order.
EXECUTIVE SESSION:
ES-629 Pursuant to Hawai`i Revised Statutes (HRS) Sections 92-4 and
92-5(a)(3), and (4), and Kaua`i County Charter Section 3.07(E), the purpose of this
Executive Session is for the Council to address issues relating to on-going labor
negotiations and related matters and to consult with the County Attorney. This
briefing and consultation involves the consideration of the powers, duties,
privileges, immunities, and/or liabilities of the Council and the County as they
relate to this agenda item: Ms. Nakamura moved to defer ES-629, seconded by
Ms. Yukimura, and unanimously carried.
ES-641 Pursuant to Hawai`i Revised Statutes (HRS) Sections 92-4 and
92-5(a)(4) and Kauai County Charter Section 3.07(E), the Office of the County
Attorney, on behalf of the Council, requests an Executive Session with the Council,
to consult with Special Counsel relating to the investigation of personnel matters
involving the Office of the County Auditor and related matters. This briefing and
consultation involves consideration of the powers, duties, privileges, immunities
and/or liabilities of the Council and the County as they relate to this agenda item:
Ms. Nakamura moved to defer ES-641, seconded by Ms. Yukimura, and
unanimously carried.
ES-648 Pursuant to Hawai`i Revised Statutes (HRS) Sections 92-4 and
92-5(a)(4) and (8) and Kaua`i County Charter Section 3.07(E), the Office of the
County Attorney, on behalf of the Council, requests an Executive Session with the
Council, to provide the Council with a briefing as it relates to the investigation of
personnel matters involving the Office of the County Auditor and related matters.
This briefing and consultation involves consideration of the powers, duties,
privileges, immunities and/or liabilities of the Council and the County as they relate
to this agenda item: Ms. Nakamura moved to defer ES-648, seconded by
Ms. Yukimura, and unanimously carried.
Mr. Rapozo: Can you repeat the numbers again of the
deferrals?
Mr. Watanabe: The deferral items are Bill No. 2460, Draft 1,
ES-629, ES-641, and ES-648.
Chair Furfaro: Let me repeat that on Bill No. 2460, Draft 1,
as I mentioned, is actually pending action by the Governor.
Mr. Rapozo: Got it.
Chair Furfaro: Are you fine now, Mr. Rapozo?
COUNCIL MEETING 4 JUNE 12, 2013
Mr. Rapozo: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much.
COMMUNICATIONS:
C 2013-213 Communication (04/30/2013) from Council Vice Chair
Nakamura and Council Chair Furfaro, requesting the presence of the Director of
Economic Development, representatives from the Kaua`i Economic Development
Board, and consultants Joel Huesby and Chuck Wolfe, to provide an update on the
Comprehensive Economic Development Strategy (CEDS) — Multi-Species Processing
Facility (MSPF) and Commercial Kitchen Business Incubator (CKBI) business
plans: Mr. Rapozo moved to receive C 2013-213 for the record, seconded by
Ms. Yukimura.
Chair Furfaro: As a courtesy to the Vice Chair, I will give
you the agenda item today and I will withdraw to the audience so I can see the
presentation.
Chair Furfaro, the presiding officer, relinquished Chairmanship to
Ms. Nakamura.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you very much, Chair. Good morning.
I wanted to call up George Costa, Director of Economic Development, Mattie
Yoshioka, and Susan Tai Kaneko from the Kaua`i Economic Development Board
(KEDB). Thank you for being here and for getting us to this point. This is really
the second or third work product from the consultants?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
GEORGE K. COSTA, Director of Economic Development: The second.
Ms. Nakamura: Okay, the second work product. We started
off last year with a feasibility study for a couple of agricultural related projects, the
commercial kitchen incubator program, and what started as a slaughterhouse and
morphed into a processing and chilling facility project. We have updates. The
Council funded business plans for last year for both of these projects, and the
consultants are here today to tell us about it. Thank you, George, Susan, and
Mattie for overseeing this project on behalf of the County.
Mr. Costa: Thank you and good morning, Council Chair
Furfaro, Vice Chair Nakamura, and Councilmembers. For the record, George
Costa, Director for the Office of Economic Development. As the Vice Chair
mentioned, we work in the Office of Economic Development as part of our mission
statement is to work in partnership with various organizations. In this case, we
have worked closely and continue to work closely with the Kaua`i Economic
Development Board with Mattie Yoshioka, Susan Tai Kaneko, and Mia Ako and
various projects. Another part of the mission for the Office of Economic
Development is to utilize the Kaua`i Economic Development Plan Comprehensive
Economic Development Strategy or commonly known as the CEDS. As part of the
CEDS, there are six (6) industry clusters that we want to really help promote and
help to diversify our economy. One of those clusters is food and agriculture. In
that, we are working towards sustainability for the island of Kauai with less food
COUNCIL MEETING 5 JUNE 12, 2013
imports, more locally grown produce and meats, and trying to help our community
become more sustainable. In that light, two (2) years ago we looked at the cattle
industry, working with the Kaua`i Cattlemen's Association, and seeing what they do
and realizing that we export over two thousand (2,000) head of weaner calves to the
mainland to finish and then slaughter and then we end up buying it back. What
really became alarming, especially in 2009 and not only during the recession, but oil
prices rose so it made the cost of importing our food and fossil fuels even more
expensive so more focus was on "how do we promote and utilize what we have here
on the island?" What we have here today is the second phase of what evolved from
a mobile modular slaughter/chill producing facility to looking at basically a
Multi-Species Processing Facility (MSPF) Business Plan, as well as a Commercial
Kitchen Business Incubator (CKBI). It is no secret that my predecessor Beth
Tokioka was responsible for the Kaua`i Made Program, which now we have over one
hundred forty (140) Kaua`i Made products that we help to brand and market. A
Commercial Kitchen Business Incubator is also something that we are currently
looking at and we are in the business plan phase so we will have that presentation
as well. What I would like to do at this time is introduce Susan Tai Kaneko, who is
going to give an overview of these two (2) projects and then introduce our two (2)
consultants.
SUSAN TAI KANEKO, Kaua`i Economic Development Board: Good
morning. For the record, I am Susan Tai Kaneko with the Kaua`i Economic
Development Board. Mahalo, Council Chair, Vice Chair, and Councilmembers, for
this opportunity to brief you on two (2) of our projects in the food and agriculture
industry that we have been working on. As George mentioned, two (2) of our project
consultants are here today to report in more detail on their projects but before that
perhaps, especially for the benefit of the Councilmembers who were not here at the
inception of these programs—what I would like to give a really brief summary of
how two (2) projects came about and how they developed into the really exciting
opportunities that they are today. I believe you have copies of our PowerPoint
presentations of all three (3) of ours. We understand that last year we had an hour
for each of the presentations, but this year because of a very packed agenda, we
have one (1) hour for all of our presentations. We propose that today's agenda, I
will just do a brief summary of our projects and how they came to be and then we
will lead right into Joel's presentation on the Multi-Species Processing Facility and
into Chuck Wolfe's presentation on the Commercial Kitchen Business Incubator,
followed by questions and answers.
As George mentioned, back in Fiscal Years 2011-2012, several CEDS projects
were identified as high priority projects in that CEDS document, so those rose to the
top and were selected for feasibility studies. What started out as the Mobile
Modular Slaughterhouse feasibility study for the Commercial Kitchen Business
Incubator, a feasibility study/operating plan to revisit the Tropical Fruit
Disinfestation Facility, a strategic plan for the Kauai County Farm Bureau, and
also a feasibility study for a Digital Media Center. These projects were funded by
the County through the Office of Economic Development. They were supported not
only financially, but through guidance, time, input, and feedback from by Kaua`i
Cattlemen's Association and Kauai County Farm Bureau, these projects as George
mentioned and the grants were managed by KEDB. The consultants that we
identified and hired to conduct these studies were Joel for the Mobile Modular
Slaughterhouse, Chuck for the Commercial Kitchen Business Incubator, our very
own John Latkiewicz from our Hawai`i Small Business Development Center, who
did the study and the report on the disinfestation facility, and also a consultant who
COUNCIL MEETING 6 JUNE 12, 2013
worked on the strategic plan for the Farm Bureau, and Alan Tang, who worked on
the study for a Digital Media Center.
We created this table to help kind of as a visual aid to talk about the flow and
the evolution of the projects and where they are today. As we mentioned, in Fiscal
Year 2011-2012, feasibility studies for the first two (2) projects, feasibility and
operating plan for the disinfestation facility and the strategic plan for the Farm
Bureau. What we found were that the feasibility studies for the first two (2)
projects showed that both projects were viable and that there were market demand
for a Multi-Species Processing Facility, which is now what it is called, and a
Commercial Kitchen Business Incubator. However, for the disinfestation facility,
we found that the original purpose was not viable anymore. In the process of that,
our consultant also suggested possibly produce handling, central receiving, handling
processing and distribution as an option for that facility but in and of itself, that
was still not viable enough to continue on. The strategic plan for the Farm Bureau
finished up and so the Farm Bureau continued to work to implement that strategic
plan and forage ahead as the lead agency for the food and ag industry, especially in
regards to our CEDS plan. In the second Fiscal Year, which is this current Fiscal
Year, the County very kindly and generously funded the business plans for the
Commercial Kitchen Business Incubator and the Multi-Species Processing Facility.
Also, the Kaua`i Quality Beef Forage Finishing Study to go hand in hand with the
meat processing facility and of course, the Farm Bureau continues to implement on
the strategic plan. In the process of this work that we have been doing this Fiscal
Year, the idea of co-locating the Multi-Species Processing Facility and the
Commercial Kitchen Business Incubator arose. Joel and Chuck will describe some
of the many benefits of shared facilities that will help offset some of the operating
expenses, but more importantly, open a lot of opportunities for our local producers.
As this co-location idea developed, the ideas of the produce handling and processing
that arose with the disinfestation facility, as well as a retail center dedicated to
locally made and locally grown product such as Kaua`i Made and Kaua`i Grown
began to come together with our Commercial Kitchen Business Incubator and
Multi-Species Processing Facility into a more cohesive picture of these aggravated
resources to serve the food and agricultural community. As we were wrapping up
these projects this year working with the County—what happened next is to
properly study the other two (2) components, that produce handling and processing
center and a Kaua`i Made and Kaua`i Grown retail center; the County has funded
the feasibility studies as for those two (2) components, as well as a feasibility
study/business/operating plan for this food production center which would be the
umbrella organization for those four (4). That is where we are at this year. At the
same time, we are continuing to work on the Commercial Kitchen Business
Incubator and Multi-Species Processing Facility, and of course those as two (2) of
the four (4) components will be incorporated into that greater plan. With that, I
just want to thank you for your time and perhaps introduce Joel Huesby to do his
presentation on the Multi-Species Processing Facility. Thank you.
JOEL HUESBY, Organic Family Farmer Consultant, Multi-Species
Processing Facility: My name is Joel Huesby, Organic Family
Farmer Consultant, Multi-Species Processing Facility. Here is a picture of my place
from my yard last week, so I also live in a very beautiful place. The first thing that
I would like to begin with is the fact that we cannot talk about anything unless we
talk about market demand because money comes into our supply chain from a
happy and repeat customer who is getting good value for product. The feasibility
study and the market analysis that we did indicated that there was significant
demand here on the island. In fact, if all of the animals...all of the cattle remained
COUNCIL MEETING 7 JUNE 12, 2013
on this island, you would only field one quarter of the local population, not counting
the tourists. There is significant ability to maintain livestock on the island for that
purpose. I need to remind you that although beef would make up over ninety
percent (90%) of the processing and marketing that a Multi-Species Processing
Facility would entail, it is also for sheep, hogs, goats, and what I would like to add
into later on is poultry. Right now, as George mentioned earlier, a little over two
thousand (2,000) weaner calves leave the island. If those animals were retained
here, there are pasture management issues we need to do to increase consistency
and quality in product and also to have enough quantity of forage to do that. One
(1) of the strategies for that might be to reduce our mother cow numbers so that we
can increase our stocker and finisher; the two (2) other phases to get to a fat animal
before harvest. In addition, there are also cull cows. Cull cows would be cows that
are old or lost their calves and no longer available as a reproductive unit in the
cowherd. There is also a new dairy coming on island that will also have need for a
place to process animals. Right now, many of the cull cows on the island go to
O`ahu, so this is another opportunity to add value here on the island. When we do
those things, it is not just about adding value by adding a couple of butchers and
administrators, but there is a multiplier effect that goes along with that for pasture
leases, additional help on the ranches, and basically creating your own local
livestock economy, if you will, in exchange of goods and services from one (1) person,
one (1) rancher, or to another because not everyone can do all parts of the supply
chain. Of course, the focus always has to be on quality because you can sell anybody
a steak once, but can you sell it to them twice? There it is. Just so you know, I have
a very short period of time here but I have done my homework. There is a lot of due
diligence and many numbers and many assumptions that I have put into all of this.
I believe that my assumptions are reasonable and not inflated. It is not my
intention whatsoever to give you numbers that give you a whole bunch of fluffy stuff
that cannot be substantiated by the reality.
There are many things that go into profit, not only for the butcher, but also
for the producer on this. One (1) of those areas does with the carcass yield and the
other does with the meat yield from that carcass. There are some genetic
improvements and some other feeding efficiency type of things that we can do on
our ranches. There are also some other things we can do in terms of how we cut up
those animals in our processing facility that will add more value. All of those things
are important because everybody needs to make money throughout the supply
chain. What we would like to do is optimize a wholesale versus retail of every
animal. Of course, you can get the most money by retailing; however retailing at
Farmer's Markets often times is problematic in terms of volume, setup/takedown,
frozen versus fresh and the like. With that said, we would like to emphasize as
much walk up customers retail to ideally the processing facility itself, eliminating
distribution costs. The next level would be something that I call "case-ready," which
is where you take all of the products and then put in to individual vacuum sealed
pouches. That might go to a restaurant or a natural food store, for instance. The
third option, which I do not recommend, is boxed beef which is what the big boys do.
Here is the deal; the big boys are very good at what they do and very efficient at it,
so if you want to win, play your own game. Do not play their game, as the margins
are not supported here on the island. The other thing we wanted to talk about is
that we want to sell more steaks which have higher prices. Basically, the steaks
only make up about fifteen percent (15%) or sixteen percent (16%) of the carcass but
they make up over a third of its value. It goes back to not only genetics, but also
feeding regimes to get the value up on those animals and have less of the "chuck
and round," if you will, proportionately.
COUNCIL MEETING 8 JUNE 12, 2013
Ms. Yukimura: Excuse me, Joel, what is the value? You said
fifteen percent (15%) to sixteen percent (16%) of the carcass but how much is the
value?
Mr. Huesby: About thirty-five percent (35%) to forty
percent (40%). Of the value of the carcass is what you would call the middle meats;
this is the steaks.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you.
Mr. Huesby: We want to optimize that as much as
possible, but there are other things that we can sell on these animals and those are
variety meats, value added meats, organ meats, or pet treats. If you go to any
grocery store there is a whole aisle full of other parts that we can sell. If you go
back to the Native Americans, for instance, there was not one (1) part of those
animals that they did not utilize for something. We want to capture as much as
that value is economically feasible. We also want to optimize the use of overhead
infrastructure by not only processing for in-house. That is our primary use for
Kaua`i Grown and Kaua`i Made, but also custom fee for service for others who have
their own brands, for instance. Then we want to optimize profits or in case if it is a
nonprofit, we want to optimize money that goes back to the producers and back to
performance of the people who work in the butcher shops or in the processing
facility. This slide just represents comparable rates with other processers for fee for
service and some revenue that can be generated by those who want to use this for
their own branding purposes. In addition to that, there are some production
assumptions. There is a typo in this one. I initially had "six head." I would like to
amend that to "three head per week." The rest of the financials have to do with
three (3) heads, so it is all correct in the numbers except for this slide. I am trying
to start out very small and humble with all of this because three (3) head per week,
if you had fifty (50) weeks, it is one hundred fifty (150) head of Kaua`i Grown/Kaua`i
Made type of cattle...three (3) head of other custom so we are looking at three
hundred (300) head. This is not a lot to start with. It is not economically viable in
the first few years as far as going forward that way, but we have to start
somewhere. We have to start with what we already have and we have to build on
that and build on success and demonstrate to producers that you can make more
money by taking on additional risks for retaining on-island. Again as I mentioned
earlier, we want to do as much towards full retail price as possible. The other thing
about pricing products is that we do not want to be so low that we are giving profit
away. On the other hand, we cannot price ourselves out of the market. We need to
be in that middle road where if the customer loves yours product, they do not
complain, and they buy from you again, then pricing is just about right. This slide
again is just numbers that substantiate the volumes and the percentage of retail
versus case ready that I am proposing that we try to shoot for. There are three (3)
primary variable costs within the financial model. The first is that the facility
purchases livestock from producers per contract specifications. These could be
various things from no hormones and antibiotics, one hundred percent (100%)
forage finish for instance, other livestock produce criteria that you might want to
put on at minimum, fat content, carcass weight, or not past thirty (30) months old of
age, and things like that. The second largest cost factor in all of this is processing
labor. What I would recommend on that is that just like with the livestock,
everything needs to be on a performance basic. If you can pay your butchers and
assistant butchers based on some kind of a floor plus premium or per pound rate—
you get your work done at 2:00 p.m., go to the beach. You are done. As long as you
are doing a quality job and you do not have Escherichia coli (E. coli) on your
COUNCIL MEETING 9 JUNE 12, 2013
product, customers are not complaining, and those kinds of issues. The third cost in
this order would be slaughter costs. What we are recommending right now is that
we still continue to use the two (2) slaughterhouses that are on-island, possibly a
third one could be available come this Fall or Winter. It is yet to be seen on that
front. As far as fixed costs go, the highest would be rent of the facility. We are
assuming that either the County, State, or Federal funds come together for an as
yet to be determined place that would be rented. The rental figure that I have put
into my spreadsheet, which is below in the PowerPoint—we do not have to dig into
those details right now, but is the competitive rate for commercial space here in
Lihu`e or something similar to that. Labor would be the next one in fixed costs for
administration and program management. This is also to make sure that when we
go out and make contracts with producers and we go follow-up and we make sure
that we have got those animals identified, we have identified these production
specifications that those growers are going to provide for, and that they meet a
certain schedule that we are going to setup. Once we start down this process, we
need to keep everybody happy and busy all the way through. We cannot run out,
but we can have excess. There is going to be a lot of coordination that goes on here.
The third fixed cost is just utilities and those are based on island assumptions
around here. I have to tell you, as far as utilities goes because utilities are so high
on this island, we want to keep an eye on what we can do to minimize or to make
what we are doing here very efficient. One (1) of those ways that that can happen,
and I wrote this also in addition to the processers business plan and a producers
business plan, is meatpacking business planning. Everything from "how much
wastewater comes per animal?" "How much power requirement per animal
harvests?" "How many pounds per man hour can be processed and packaged?"
"What is the rail spacing?" "What refrigeration requirements?" I have all of that
right here. What I am saying by that is we want to reduce our utilities by having
lots of insulation, being very energy efficient, and designing flow through our
facility in such a way that we can keep those fixed costs as low as possible. Then of
course, there are some capital expenditures for processing equipment. There is
another typo. It should be a one hundred forty thousand (140,000). I apologize for
that. You can add a "1" in front of that "4."... other start up costs, which would
basically be helping with payroll initially as things get rolling the first few months
and the like. Everything that I have done through this business model is to be
something on the lines that is financially sound. It probably will not be in this
particular set of assumptions in the first few years, but I would argue to you that
how we start up the business model for the processing facility is exactly how it will
grow and develop. If I plant a carrot, I cannot expect it to grow into a tree. It will
grow and develop as a carrot, if you will. If we start this facility as something as
least for the processing side that is not as standalone that cannot pay rent that has
to be subsidized or there is always some assistance that is required, then it will
always grow and develop with those same parameters. If that is Council's wish, so
be it on that front but I set this up in such a way it holds its own weight that. That
is how the modeling goes on my spreadsheets. Organizational structure would be as
a nonprofit...
Ms. Nakamura: Joel?
Mr. Huesby: Yes, Nadine.
Ms. Nakamura: Just to clarify when you say "set your own
rates," you mean you want this to be financially sustainability without government
subsidies over time?
COUNCIL MEETING 10 JUNE 12, 2013
Mr. Huesby: Overtime, but it will still require initial
subsidies for things to get started.
Ms. Nakamura: Initial subsidies are necessary to get us there
in the long run.
Mr. Huesby: Absolutely.
Ms. Nakamura: I just wanted to clarify. Thank you.
Mr. Huesby: Thank you, Nadine. That is a good point to
make. Organizational structure would be as a nonprofit. What we are
recommending Kaua`i Meat Producers Association—on that front, I have the
boilerplate articles of incorporation, bylaws, application, and the whole enchilada
waiting to put some peoples' names on that thing so it is kind of like "got the gun,
ready to pull the trigger" type of deal. What we would like to do in the coming year
is to identify those ranchers who have quality livestock that we can then make
contracts with and agree on scheduling and on pricing that we can do some cost per
pound of gain type work and do some pasture lease work. I have example forms of
all of those things; bills of sale, production affidavits, pasture leases, and the whole
enchilada. Marketing—again, we want to recruit producers. We want to continue
to develop additional markets out for what we are doing. Again, the emphasis
would be on retail at the processing facility as much as possible so there are no
distribution costs and that we would be looking for a program manager to be able to
do all of this. That program manager is going to have to understand a lot of
different aspects that goes with this whole process. Recruitment will be a very
important part of this. Next steps would be to, again, continue to educate producers
that they can make more money with the added risk and the added management
that is required to create a quality product on a given schedule. We are going to
look at more retail opportunities, and we need to identify where we are going to
plant this thing. I think that is where I am at. This is an organic wheat field
looking west from my driveway. There have been no chemicals or fertilizers on this
for the last eighteen (18) years. I market it all locally. Then there are some details
in the back that we can go into later, if you so desire. Thank you.
Ms. Nakamura: Can you hold your questions? We wanted to
have Chuck do his next presentation and then open it up for questions because
there are some interrelations between the two (2) projects. Thank you. Welcome,
Chuck.
CHUCK WOLFE, President, Claggett Wolfe Associates: Thank you,
Councilmembers. I appreciate the opportunity to come before you. My name is
Chuck Wolfe. I am the President of Claggett Wolfe Associates. I was engaged to do
the Market Feasibility study for the Commercial Kitchen Business Incubator, as
well as move on to the business plan. Just to put things into context, we were
talking about more of a business with a product in terms of steaks and beef related
products. Our product is businesses. To just put into context what we really are
looking as outcomes from this program are successful businesses, jobs, and
versification. It is sort of a little bit of a different framework, but I think the
outcomes has its significant impact on Kauai and the Kaua`i economy as the Multi-
Species Facility. Just a little recap of what we identified during the market
assessment was that there was an opportunity as George identified. There are one
hundred forty (140) products being produced right now on the island. We identified
a number of different opportunities both from an incubation standpoint to help
COUNCIL MEETING 11 JUNE 12, 2013
build existing businesses, as well as assist in the start-up of food manufacturing
businesses, as well as agriculturally-based production businesses. There is a fairly
diverse range of opportunities and that market opportunity led to the preparation of
the business plan. What we looked at is the objective here was to investigate the
financial and operating viability of the incubation program that would adequately
support the market that we identified during the feasibility study. We also wanted
to identify the processing location for manufacturing the food products. Last, was
looking at identifying potential sources for developing and supporting a sustainable
incubation program. As a mission, we laid out and basically the mission of the agro
business and food production incubator is to promote and accelerate the formation
and growth of agricultural and food manufacturing-based businesses; thereby
supporting job growth, economic diversification, sustainable agriculture, and food
safety on the island of Kaua`i. As you note, the business incubation process starts
at the top, where you are looking at educational programs that are being offered at
Kaua`i Community College, through the Small Business Development Centers
(SBDC) and other venues that are feeders into the process. There are also
networking events that would be part of this where you bring together
entrepreneurs and business people to engage, share experiences, and come up with
new ideas. The other was the highly successful business plan competition that has
already held. I can attest to the fact because I look at this all over the world and
your next first year competition far exceeded any other one I have ever observed
anywhere in the United States. That is a very commendable success and it actually
was a fairly significant on our assessment of the opportunities on the island. What
we go through is a selection process and those individuals that are admitted into
the incubation program. What you will see is incubation is not the building. The
building is just a means to help facilitate the businesses and what they are doing.
Incubation itself really is just the coaching and services you bring to help build
success of business. You will see from the chart that the key here is not only to
facilitate through a coaching mechanism, but to have a resource network to get the
resources that are necessary through the SBDC, College of Tropical Agriculture and
Human Resources (CTAHR), KCC, the Argi-Business Incubator in Honolulu, Farm
Bureau, Capital Sources, et cetera, to help build the businesses and bring the
resources to them at the time that they need them to move to the next stage of
development. Associated with that is the production facility, and what we had
identified in the first phase was that we would be using shared commercial
kitchens. In two (2) locations, we identified opportunities to use existing kitchens.
Our gap we found after a number of different evaluations was there was a gap of no
existing or planned kitchen in Lihu`e. Once through the process, you actually
graduate people out of the program so you are actually moving people in and
moving them out into the marketplace. Through that process, we start with
information. You will see that moving into educational programs, the networking
events, and structured assistance, which is the SBDCs, the incubator, as well as
Capital. From an economic development and community based support platform,
the higher up you are on the scale, the more impact you will have on the outcomes
on the businesses and their success. As you can see entrepreneurs and existing
businesses can enter the hierarchy at any stage. We want to focus here on what we
identified. We had partner sites—and I will talk briefly about that, but what we
identify was the gap and what we saw was an opportunity in Lihu`e to serve the
eastern shore. What we were looking at there from an operating standpoint would
be a facility of about three thousand six hundred (3,600) square feet with a hot
kitchen and a prep kitchen, dry storage, walk-in refrigerated, freezer storage, and
administrative offices and a break room. These would all comply with current food
safety requirements, which are somewhat lacking in terms of the facilities on the
island, and would move towards the upgraded or the more stringent food safety
COUNCIL MEETING 12 JUNE 12, 2013
requirements that are coming down the line. In terms of the site requirements,
what we were looking at were accessibility with the ability to bring in a twenty (20)
foot box truck...high ceilings, twelve (12) to fourteen (14) feet minimum, concrete
floor with a load rating that could handle the equipment to be brought in, parking
both for assistance providers, as well as for clients, a loading dock with rollup door,
three (3) phased power. A critical part was utilities and services with requirement
to be on County water and sewer, and in proximity to telecommunications and
high-speed—minimum digital subscriber line (DSL). A critical part of this entire
process is the capacity to secure grants and the facility to make sure we can
capitalize the kind of improvements we are talking about. Almost every single
program in the nation requires grant funding to capitalize the equipment and the
rehabilitation of the facility. That is a factor that plays throughout the selection
process. As I said, we have some partner sites. If you look at the map, we have
already been in discussions with the Waipa Foundation and common ground, who
are in the development processes and have expressed an interest to be potential
future partners, but we are at a stage now that we do not—the projects themselves
are not far enough along to determine the exact extent of that collaboration. We are
looking to leverage the kitchen in Anahola that already exists. We are looking to
partner with a kitchen down in Hanapepe that serve the west and south shore with
Salty Wahine, who is developing a fully functional commercial kitchen with storage,
processing, and the amenities that you would normally look for in terms of
processing on the island. The proposed site is the new commercial kitchen that I
just outlined, which would be probably located in Lihu`e. The model that we are
looking at operating would be an independent nonprofit. There would be a Board of
Directors with an incubator director that would actually operate and oversee the
program with very strong ties with the Small Business Development Center on the
island, as well as the Hawaii Small Business Development Network. I met with
the State Director in Hilo. We talked at length about how they may be a partner in
this, and they expressed very strong interest and they themselves are already
taking steps to expand their knowledge base and resource base around agro
business and food. That was a very strong asset that we looked to leverage. You
also look at the leveraging and bringing in the service network. This will be
professionals, accountants, attorneys, lendors, food specialists, and the agro
business incubator staff at the University of Hawai`i at Manoa. We have talked
with them and clarified their role, opportunities, and commitments to this project,
as well as organizations such as the Chamber of Commerce. You will see this runs
on a pretty lean staff. In addition, to a Director, we have a part-time
Administrative Assistant. Part of the reason we are able to say "part-time" is
because we look to share that with the Multi-Species Food Processing Facility, as
well as a part-time kitchen and facility manager. On a budget standpoint, we look
at the capital budget and we are looking at approximately two hundred twenty
thousand dollars ($220,000) in furniture, fixture, and equipment. The facility
improvement costs at this point are undetermined because we have not determined
a specific site for the project. The operating budget and the level of sustainability at
approximately year six (6), as you will see, is when we project the project to be
sustainable. At that time, the operating budget is approximately three hundred
thousand dollars ($300,000) per year with eighty percent (80%) of that being
accounted for by staff and rent. What we are looking at is a shortfall during that
start up period with about eighty-seven thousand dollars ($87,000) in the first year
and diminishing as the program ramps up with a total shortfall for ramp-up of
about two hundred fifty thousand dollars ($250,000). Sources of funding at year six
(6)—you can see that because now we would have a rental kitchen, seventy-three
percent (73%) of the actual revenue will come from the rental of the kitchen, the
prep kitchen, and storage. Client fees would account for seven percent (7%),
COUNCIL MEETING 13 JUNE 12, 2013
sponsorships about seventeen percent (17%), and then other sources that we have
identified would be about three percent (3%). Just to mention, for the sponsorships,
we actually talked with private corporations and individuals on the island who
expressed interest in sponsoring this program, and what they looked at was
sponsoring businesses. They would actually adopt a business to go through the
program and we talked dollar amounts, so that is actually something that has been,
at least preliminarily validated, ahead of time. I would guess to say there are
probably more that we could identify, but we did identify there was a fairly strong
basis of support for this program. The projected impact through years one (1) to ten
(10)— new business established twenty-three (23), so we are only estimating about
two (2) per year. There will probably be a larger influx initially just from what we
saw from the business plan competition, but I think over time, the likelihood of
people admitted into the program is about two (2) per year. Through that process,
you would be working with expanding existing businesses and serving about
seventeen (17). Jobs created by the businesses themselves over that time period
would about ninety (90) plus. Now what you are looking at is the first ten (10)
years. These are momentum and most of the growth occurs in years five (5) to ten
(10). You can look at this as a start because in years ten (10) to fifteen (15) and
fifteen (15) to twenty (20), this momentum keeps building. That is really where a
lot of the momentum and the value of these programs come from. Our
recommendations and next steps. We do feel it would be appropriate to proceed
with the program if the leadership is in agreement with the economic and
community value that would be gained from this versus the investment. We also
feel that there is a strong value in investing in the opportunity for integrating the
incubation program with the Multi-Species Processing Facility and possible retail
center and produce handling and processing center. I can give you a little history
on that. Back in last October after we completed the feasibility study, there was a
discussion about that we had two (2) feasible projects, and we need to pick which
one we are going to move forward with. It was evident to me at that time from my
work because as I said, I do this kind of work all over the US and around the world,
that we actually had an opportunity to have a strong integrated program and that it
would be a greater value, both in terms of seeking funding from the US Economic
Development Administration and US Department of Agriculture (USDA), as well as
impact on the island to bring the projects together. Another component of that was
too, that we could then share overhead and cut operating costs which would then
make each project more viable and have a broader impact. There is a little history
to why that came together. The other part was that we identified in all the produce
that have been highly successful, have a retail component. They have an outlet for
businesses that they helped build the products for. That was a critical part that we
felt was an opportunity and that is where it was identified as part of this process
and why you saw the opportunity to look at the feasibility of adding a retail
component, and then bringing the produce handling side into the picture. We feel
at this point, it would be appropriate and as you have approved, to conduct a
market study to determine the viability and alignment of the retail center and
produce handling, just as we have done here. They need to be fully vetted. It is not
just a "we will build it and they will come and it will work." We also feel that if all
of those are viable, is to develop an integrated operating plan so we maximize the
economic benefit, minimize the operating costs, and also maximize the opportunities
to benefit the businesses and the community that will be assisted by the programs.
Mahalo for this opportunity and I think we are going to open up for questions and
answers.
Ms. Nakamura: Why do we not ask Joel to come up here and
we can open it up for questions.
COUNCIL MEETING 14 JUNE 12, 2013
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you, Joel and Chuck, for fabulous
work as far as I can see. To me, it is precedent setting because I do not think we
had the quality of this kind of due diligence before. It bodes very well in terms of
success of these ventures, so thank you for that. Just because it is so fresh in my
mind; Chuck, on your issue about a retail component.
Mr. Wolfe: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: The way I understand it, an incubator will
not keep the businesses in the incubator they incubate and then they go off and find
their own locations or am I mistaken in that?
Mr. Wolfe: No. The only difference is that with a
commercial kitchen, almost all commercial kitchens at some point will allow
graduates to rent time at a different rate structure because they may never get big
enough to support their own facility. There is a portion of the revenue off hours,
non-incubation hours, that would be available and made available at a cost to
non-incubator or incubator graduates.
Ms. Yukimura: I am thinking of the Pacific Gateway Model
that we looked at altogether on a very informative tour. For that one, I do
understand had ongoing clients, like a school lunch program—there was a group
who did school lunches every week there and they rented a portion of that facility
every week during certain times. My understanding of this proposal that we are
having is that it does not have the flexibility of the Pacific Gateway—Pacific
Gateway just seemed to have so many different cubicles, if you will, but am I not
understanding the vision for the Kaua`i or the Lihu`e incubator?
Mr. Wolfe: I actually can clarify that.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay.
Mr. Wolfe: For one, I did make it a point to visit the
Pacific Gateway site as well because most of you had visited that. The Pacific
Gateway site is really not an incubator. It is a shared/used rental kitchen. Other
than a food safety workshop periodically, they provide no support to build
businesses. I think that sort of confuses things. It is really just a facility that is
rented. When you talk about incubation, there is a support structure that goes to
actually help build the businesses.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. My understanding is that they had
classes about food safety and labeling and those kinds of things. Perhaps the
support system you are working on here is much more extensive?
Mr. Wolfe: Like I say, I co-authored the book on Best
Practices of Incubation and they are not an incubator.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay.
Mr. Wolfe: They are a facility, and what they do is they
rent space and fifty percent (50%) of their revenues comes from food trucks.
Ms. Yukimura: Right, lunch wagons, et cetera.
COUNCIL MEETING 15 JUNE 12, 2013
Mr. Wolfe: Right. They are very good at having a
diverse range of resources for people on the island but they also have a population
center that is significantly larger than Kaua`i. This program utilizing the satellite
sites for handling the level of production, and the sizing that we proposed here was
more in line with what we felt the market demand would be on the island. It would
have the capacity to serve a variety of different kinds of businesses, as I said, both
those that you would be building, but also those that are already in operation that
would use it in non-incubation hours that would help offset costs and bring revenue
in to run the program.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay, but it is a much smaller facility?
Mr. Wolfe: Much smaller.
Ms. Yukimura: So you will not have as much space and time
to rent?
Mr. Wolfe: Right.
Ms. Yukimura: I guess I am trying to put the retail together
because if you incubate them into other locations and so forth, to me they would
develop their retail wherever they locate ultimately their production.
Mr. Wolfe: Okay. I can tell you that for most small
businesses, their biggest challenge is actually selling their product and getting their
product to market, especially in the food sector because in the food sector itself,
there are a few hundred thousand new products that come online every year and
there is only so much shelf space. The businesses tend not to gain access to market
channels. The programs that have been successful have developed market channels
for their clients, whether it is through online sales and online sales site. You will
look at where programs where they will have a retail front, so it brands the product
and helps products get to market. Those businesses will also sell through other
channels.
Ms. Yukimura: That is why I have a hard time
conceptualizing a retail site for an incubator that keeps changing and that only has
a small selection of retail. Maybe you know of models elsewhere—there was a
Kaua`i products store and it was not just food.
Mr. Wolfe: Right.
Ms. Yukimura: But it could not survive doing just Kaua`i
products.
Mr. Wolfe: That has not been analyzed yet, so I really
cannot respond to the viability of that platform.
Ms. Yukimura: You said that the retail component is so
important, but I am not sure it is that important to an incubator that has
constantly changing businesses. I am having a hard time putting my arms around
understanding that.
COUNCIL MEETING 16 JUNE 12, 2013
Ms. Nakamura: May I interject here? For everyone, we have
fifteen (15) minutes left in this session that has been set aside. There is a feasibility
study for that retail component that is going to be part of this year's Budget through
OED. I think that is where that question will be addressed. There are many other
Councilmembers with questions. I want to go to Councilmember Rapozo, and then
Councilmember Bynum, and then you can ask another follow-up question.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay, I just want to say this is such an
important thing. If my question is irrelevant then I would withhold it, but to me,
there is this discussion about retail center and so I would like to fully vet it at some
point if we have to maybe defer this matter...
Ms. Nakamura: I think the time to vet is at the time that the
feasibility study for the retail center is done, which has not even started and will
start at the beginning of this Fiscal Year coming up.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. I felt like there was a conclusion
about the feasibility of retail.
Mr. Wolfe: No, it was just saying that a retail center
will enhance the success of businesses. That is all that was said.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. I do agree with that. I am just not
sure how it fits with an incubator, and if you could provide some information about
other places that have that, I would appreciate it.
Mr. Wolfe: I think as Councilmember Nakamura said,
that is going to be part of the next study.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay.
Ms. Nakamura: Councilmember Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you, Madame Chair. Thank you for
being here today. I have a question for Joel, and obviously, I have no clue about the
specifics of cattle and all of that stuff. I will leave that up you guys, but I do have a
question—I think in the appendix, page 15 on your slide, where you talk about the
fixed expenses and not sure how you arrived to the figure for electricity of thirty-one
dollars ($31) a week.
Mr. Huesby: That is a really good question. I would
consider that to be low just by commonsense standards, but what I did was I took
examples of a dozen other small slaughterhouses in the United States, and the
kilowatt demand per animal harvested and interpolated that here and then applied
that to your power rate.
Mr. Rapozo: This is not going to be a slaughterhouse.
This will be a...
Mr. Huesby: Excuse me, processing facility.
Mr. Rapozo: I would assume this facility would have huge
chill boxes.
COUNCIL MEETING 17 JUNE 12, 2013
Mr. Huesby: That is correct. I did do my research on it.
Mr. Rapozo: Just to give you for a comparison, my office is
three hundred (300) square feet in Lihu`e and my electric bill—and I do not have a
chill or a refrigerator. I do not have anything except for lights and two (2)
computers, and my bill is more than that.
Mr. Huesby: Okay.
Mr. Rapozo: I would ask that you—that is not accurate, I
can tell you right now. Just knowing what commercial places, restaurants, and any
facility with chill boxes... that is not accurate at all.
Mr. Huesby: I can make a correction on that. The other
thing I mentioned earlier...
Mr. Rapozo: Do not use similar things on the mainland
because...
Mr. Huesby: Right.
Mr. Rapozo: You have the rate right at forty-four cents
($0.44) a kilowatt. That is right. I just question the three hundred (300) kilowatt
hours per week. That cannot be accurate.
Mr. Huesby: I will make an adjustment. Thank you.
Mr. Rapozo: The other one is the lease rent, lease space at
eighty-five cents ($0.85) a square foot; Lihu`e commercial...that as well.
Mr. Huesby: That is not right?
Mr. Rapozo: No, that is not right. I just looked it up real
quick and they are renting six hundred (600) square foot place in Lihu`e, warehouse
type with one (1) restroom inside and that is at one thousand two hundred dollars
($1,200) a month.
Mr. Huesby: What does that come out to math wise?
Mr. Rapozo: I am not sure, but you are saying three
thousand eight hundred (3,800)—almost four thousand (4,000) square feet at seven
hundred sixty-one dollars ($761) a week—I do not know if we can find office space or
commercial space in Lihu`e for eighty-five cents ($0.85) a square foot right now.
Again, the rest of the stuff I am not going to question. Water at twelve dollars ($12)
a week...I am not sure what the water rate is commercial because my landlord pays
for that, but the telephone—this may seem minor but these are the only things that
I know. Kaua`i is quite expensive and that is why a lot of businesses do not last
here because of the overhead.
Mr. Huesby: Yes.
Mr. Rapozo: I just ask when we put together the
spreadsheets that we use the numbers that are really accurate to this community
because it is substantially higher than what you are showing on this...
COUNCIL MEETING 18 JUNE 12, 2013
Mr. Huesby: I did my due diligence as to the rates here
and also researching whether it is water, wastewater, garbage pick-up, and those
kinds of things. The volumes that would be typical were small scale processing
plant, but we can certainly make adjustments.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay. Thank you.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you, Councilmember Rapozo, for the
constructive feedback. I think with KEDB having so many business people on the
board, if you could have the committee take a closer look at the numbers that are
the assumptions in the business plan. Thank you very much.
Mr. Huesby: Sure.
Mr. Costa: If I could add, I did get the rate from a
commercial broker.
Ms. Nakamura: Okay. Thank you. Councilmember Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: Well, to bring cattle to market requires grass
fed and I am concerned about whether there is adequate land. Suddenly, ag land is
in high demand on Kaua`i and I am hearing that some ranchers who had long term
leases no longer have them. Then there are certain areas where are more amenable
to bringing beef to market is that correct?
Mr. Huesby: That is correct.
Mr. Bynum: I think we have some advantages on Kaua`i
over Hawai`i island. Is that correct?
Mr. Huesby: That is also correct.
Mr. Bynum: I understand those issues but have you, as
part of your study, identified if there is required land in the right location to bring
beef all the way to market?
Mr. Huesby: The answer is yes and no. Basically, to
retain animals on the island requires about twice as much forage for the additional
eighteen (18) months of bringing those young animals up to harvest age with
adequate fat. There is that aspect. There is also the fact that we can do better with
our pastures and we can also do some cultivated crops to can give us higher animal
performance per acre grazed, so there are some other agricultural things that we
could incorporate. The last thing I would add to that is that because we can make
much more money by taking animals all the way to harvest then we can by putting
on a ship to the mainland, we might reduce our mama cows and increase the
number of stock or finishers as. I mentioned earlier, so that the total grass or forage
demand does not have to double. A combination of all of these things can then
mean that we would have enough resources here to get adequate finish of those that
are retained.
Mr. Bynum: I have heard from ranchers on Hawai`i island
that they are bringing all the beef to market that they can because of their
COUNCIL MEETING 19 JUNE 12, 2013
limitations for forage. Could we bring all two thousand (2,000) head to market with
the forage that we have available?
Mr. Huesby: I do not think so. I think you could bring
something like—again, a safe thing would be to say half of that and the other half of
that forage went to finishing them. As I said, there are significant improvements
we can make in genetic selection, in our pasture management, and in cultivated
crops to get the finish that will reduce the amount of land base required to do a
quality product.
Mr. Bynum: In your study, you looked at available forage
and at what locations?
Mr. Huesby: I only looked at it in a general sense. I have
not looked at it in a highly detailed ranch by ranch perspective. That could be part
of the coming year's Scope of Work.
Mr. Bynum: For this issue, not all pastures are created
equal, right?
Mr. Huesby: Not at all. There is enormous variability,
wet side/dry side, and some people manage their pastures manicured so they look
like a golf course, but do not have performance. On the other hand, people that
have a wolfy weed patch are not performance either. There are a lot of things that
can be done for improvement.
Mr. Bynum: When cane shut down, there was a period
where we said, "What are we going to do with all of this ag land?" Now we are in a
period where, "Is there enough to accomplish all of the business interests that are
currently on the island that are competing for that land?"
Mr. Huesby: The other thing that you need to understand
about this is that I am not asking for everybody to jump on board with retain on
Kaua`i program. The fact of the matter is that probably most cattle are still going to
end up going to the mainland because that is the lowest common denominator.
That is the path of least resistance. That is the behavioral habits that have already
been set up, that is the culture of the island. We are only asking for some people
who are willing to take this on, who have those resources to do so. I am not asking
that the whole island change over. I am asking that we take incremental steps, and
as we go through that, we can develop and revaluate what are resources are so that
we do not get into a problem where we run into grass, for instance.
Mr. Bynum: I am just trying to wrap my head around this
if this is all about bringing more beef to market here locally, and that is why we
need these facilities. You need to determine if that is viable long term in terms of
available pasture that meets that criteria.
Mr. Huesby: That is correct.
Mr. Bynum: We really have not done that or identified or
got commitments from landowners?
Mr. Huesby: It has been looked at significantly, but it has
not been fully vetted.
COUNCIL MEETING 20 JUNE 12, 2013
Mr. Bynum: I appreciate that answer. I think that is
something that is important. I have a few questions about that, if I can.
Ms. Nakamura: I would like to go into—we will do another
round because JoAnn has other questions and Ross has questions, if you do not
mind?
Mr. Bynum: Sure.
Ms. Nakamura: Okay. Do you have a follow-up, George?
Mr. Costa: Yes, I just wanted to add that currently we
have a study taking place right now, and I believe we will come before the Council
in August to present the beef quality study. It will address a lot of those concerns
like the foraging, the grass, and the acreage. All of that will be presented at that
time in August.
Mr. Bynum: Well, I have talked to ranchers who had a
twenty (20) year plan, twenty (20) year lease, and it was thwarted by the landowner
saying, "No, we are going to have this land used by somebody else."
Mr. Huesby: Right.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you for raising those concerns.
Councilmember Hooser, and then followed by Councilmember Kagawa.
Mr. Hooser: On the processing, I was looking at some of
your numbers and you have one hundred seventy thousand dollars ($170,000) or
two hundred seventy thousand dollars ($270,000) in loans.
Mr. Huesby: Yes.
Mr. Hooser: One hundred seventy thousand dollars
($170,000)— where do these loans come from? Go out into the private sector and
borrow from the bank? Is that what they envision the organization doing?
Mr. Huesby: Yes, small business development, private
equity, and that kind of thing. Most likely, I was looking for some kind of a yet to
be determined government source for business start-up.
Mr. Hooser: So the one hundred seventy thousand dollars
($170,000) is not subsidy from Kaua`i County, but it is a loan from some entity,
whether it would be public or private?
Mr. Huesby: It is quite possible that it could be a loan
from Kaua`i County, as far as that goes. It is also for equipment and everything. It
is not burnt up money; it is to be collateralized.
Mr. Hooser: Okay. Do you have examples of other
processing facilities like this that have been started in this manner with public
support or funding that are now successful and operating without public assistance?
Mr. Huesby: I do not.
COUNCIL MEETING 21 JUNE 12, 2013
Mr. Hooser: Okay.
Mr. Huesby: All my examples that I have used for my
numbers, my assumptions and everything have all been private enterprises.
Mr. Hooser: Okay. For the incubator, thank you very
much. I was looking for a spreadsheet with costs/income and I did not see it on the
incubator. I saw some numbers but I did not see a cash flow analysis or anything
like that.
Mr. Wolfe: Right. It is available; it just was not put into
the presentation because of the level of detail and time we had allowed.
Mr. Hooser: Okay. I think that would be important to
have to look at because really we are looking at the economic viability of these
projects.
Mr. Wolfe: Correct.
Mr. Hooser: You mentioned specifically that it would take
subsidies and I believe this says something like five (5) years...
Mr. Wolfe: Six (6).
Mr. Hooser: In order for us to evaluate the possibility of
what the subsidies would amount to, I think looking at those spreadsheets would be
very valuable.
Mr. Wolfe: I understand.
Mr. Hooser: If you could make them available to the
Chair...
Ms. Nakamura: Yes, I think every Councilmember should
have a copy of both of your business plans, the final products, and that is what I am
assuming that we will receive.
Mr. Wolfe: Yes.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you.
Mr. Hooser: Similarly, are there examples—you
mentioned verbally—examples of a successful incubator program in other places. I
did not notice any of those listed in the program either, so if you could make those
available to us.
Mr. Wolfe: Okay, I can give you names. There are
numerous programs that have...
Mr. Hooser: It would be good to have names and maybe a
brief description of what those programs—whether they are sustainable. At the end
of the day, if you looking for public funding, that is what we need...I need to be
convinced that these are sustainable programs that sure, we give them a little
COUNCIL MEETING 22 JUNE 12, 2013
nudge, but it is into the going to be a constant subsidy from the public sector at
these particular times. If you could provide us with those particular examples, that
would be great. Thank you.
Mr. Wolfe: Okay.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you, Councilmember Kagawa.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you, Chair. I just want to thank you
for your presentation. I think Councilmembers are already asking a lot of the
questions that we need answered in the future, but I think we are off to a good
start. I think it is a very good thing for Kaua`i if this can work. Locally, we have a
lot of problems with the price of fish for fresh fish that our fishermen catch,
especially the tuna. When the fishermen catch their fish and sell it here and sell it
for like two dollars ($2) a pound maybe at a high, and sometimes even one dollar
and fifty cents ($1.50) or one dollar ($1). When you go to the store and buy poke and
what does it sell at? Somewhere around seventeen dollars ($17) or eighteen dollars
($18) a pound. Obviously, there are a lot of middle men that are making money and
I think that what you are trying to do is similar to that problem there, is provide
maybe a chance for our ranchers to maybe make a better profit off their beef. Is
that going to happen or will it be the same price as they are sending it off now?
Mr. Huesby: It cannot be the same price because if you
take on additional risk and if you take on additional management, you better get
additional reward, period. Or, it is all academics and I am done. You have to make
some money at this thing, more money than under the status quo.
Mr. Kagawa: Right now, if our typical cow that we send to
the mainland will sell for...how much a pound, maybe?
Mr. Huesby: Around one dollar ($1) or one dollar and ten
cents ($1.10) right now, so for a four hundred (400) to four hundred fifty (450) pound
animal, that is four hundred fifty dollars ($450) roughly.
Mr. Kagawa: Our projection here would be how much?
Mr. Huesby: You could make another four hundred
dollars ($400) to five hundred dollars ($500) by keeping them on island with the fact
that even the people who would do the stocking and finishing— stocking from four
hundred fifty (450) pounds to eight hundred fifty (850) pounds, and finishing from
eight hundred fifty (850) to one thousand two hundred (1,200) or so. Those people
are also making money on this process because the cost per pound to gain is pretty
affordable.
Mr. Kagawa: What I am asking is if the mainland pays
our local rancher one dollar ($1) a pound roughly, then what will this Kaua`i plant
pay the rancher?
Mr. Huesby: I suggested in the spreadsheet, that I believe
it was something like seventy cents ($0.70) or eighty cents ($0.80) on a live weight
basis, but I also suggest is that we pay on a carcass rate basis because that is a
more accurate reflection of the actual meat yield, not having (inaudible) material
and changes in body (inaudible) type or body condition. It is roughly on seventy
cents ($0.70) to eighty cent ($0.80) price live weight. You have to understand that
COUNCIL MEETING 23 JUNE 12, 2013
the island prices are roughly half of mainland prices, again, because of shipping
costs and making up some of these differences
Mr. Kagawa: Okay. The rancher will make less by
keeping it here?
Mr. Huesby: No, he makes more.
Mr. Kagawa: Okay.
Mr. Huesby: You have to understand that there is what is
called a "price rollback." As the animal gets higher in weight, the price per pound
goes down. For me on the mainland, a four hundred fifty (450) pound calf is two
dollars ($2) a pound. A finished animal that is one thousand two hundred (1,200)
pounds is only one dollar and twenty cents ($1.20).
Mr. Kagawa: Okay.
Mr. Huesby: It is the same thing here.
Mr. Kagawa: Okay. It is a heavier weight to ship I guess.
Mr. Huesby: You would not ship. Once you pull the
trigger for retaining, you are married to that. They are going to stay here and that
is really one of the big fear factors in this whole deal because you cannot ship them
after they are past fifty-four (54) inches high to get on a container. This is why it is
very critical that the ranchers have enough confidence to in the system and a
market outlet for that, that they can retain. Otherwise, it is very scary.
Mr. Kagawa: I have eaten some local beef hamburgers and
to me, they are terrific. I do not think we should ever buy—well, if we have this
plan going, we should never buy hamburger from the mainland because hamburger
is hamburger, right?
Mr. Huesby: I am with you.
Mr. Kagawa: I would think marketing that Kaua`i grown
beef hamburger could be something of a hit, especially like at Mark's Place. My
mom had a restaurant for twelve (12) years, in the `Ele`ele Shopping Center and her
top sellers were locally caught fish like Akule and Ono. She also sold what I believe
was local hamburger from Thrifty Mart. I think it is a good thing. Back then, we
did not really think about marketing Kauai. You just sold it based on taste, I
guess. I think now we are coming to the period where visitors want to eat
something from Kaua`i. I think it is a great thing; it is just how to make it work
and how to make it benefit our local people in ag. I think that is a key ingredient.
As long as we can avoid shipping things off, as much as possible. I think that is
what is happening. My second question is have we looked at the fish industry like
Big Save? They used to have fish and market fish.
Mr. Huesby: That is outside of my purview.
Mr. Kagawa: George, that is another area.
COUNCIL MEETING 24 JUNE 12, 2013
Mr. Costa: That might be better than the retail in the
next phase.
Mr. Kagawa: The true cost would be... say if they sell a
tuna for two dollars ($2) a pound, the actual meat weight is probably half. They are
probably buying it at four dollars ($4) a pound, but still, the difference between four
dollars ($4) and sixteen dollars ($16) or seventeen dollars ($17) is huge. If we could
have a fish processing place and offer it to our residents or local restaurateurs for
half the price...
Mr. Huesby: That is a good idea.
Mr. Kagawa: You could still make a profit here and could
even pay the fishermen, who work so hard, a little more for their catch. I guess if
you guys could look at that industry. Thank you.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you, Councilmember Kagawa. The
Chair has allowed us to do another round of questions because this is such an
important initiative that we are pursuing. Thank you very much, Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Gentlemen, thank you very much. I will not
have a second round of questions but I understand that when we get to the August
presentation, we will see a study about meat grades then?
Mr. Costa: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Is that correct? You have a "double-edged
sword" here, gentlemen. Yes, there is grass fed and there is also corn fed. We
understand that there are issues with corn, but there is corn fed. You have to
double-edged sword because the better the marbling with the cow, obviously, the
more weight you have. The more weight you got with the cow, the more expensive
it is to ship. Let us be real honest with this. The fact of the matter is that we have
a target range for beef grading. I am not saying that we are looking for US Prime or
top choice or choice, or even moderate choice but if we end up with a product that is
(inaudible) type, let us be real sure that we understand it in August for the costs
with that.
Mr. Huesby: May I comment on that?
Chair Furfaro: You may. I am just saying what I am
looking for in August because it is a double-edged sword.
Mr. Huesby: Which is not part of my study, but
nonetheless, I will make a couple of comments. First of all, it will not be
economically viable to finish cattle on this island with corn.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you.
Mr. Huesby: It is not going to happen and the reason is
because foundation corn commands a very high price and you will not run that
through a cow. It is not going to happen.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING 25 JUNE 12, 2013
Mr. Huesby: It is going to be a grass fed product. Having
said that, it can still be a quality product. I brought over a couple of steaks from the
mainland from my pasture and that...
Chair Furfaro: I will let you respond to me. I have that
question and I would like to see it in August, but there are other issues in our
community about corn.
Mr. Huesby: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: I want to make sure that we get it cleaned
up upfront. Thank you for your response.
Mr. Huesby: You are welcome.
Chair Furfaro: If we want to get an animal with the right
kind of marbling for the grading, it will also be more expensive to ship. The cash
flow on the business schedule that Mr. Hooser mentioned, from what I read from
your numbers, it is a six (6) year plan. Am I correct in understanding you will be
sending the cash flow projection to us?
Mr. Wolfe: Yes, when it is finalized in the business plan.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. If you send it to me, I will see that it
is distributed when it is finalized, but the plan is a six (6) year return on investment
(ROI).
Mr. Wolfe: Six (6) year to sustainability, yes.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. On the other particulars on the Lihu`e
site, on the Furniture, Fixtures, and Equipment (FF&E), you have a number of two
hundred twenty thousand dollars ($220,000) for equipment, fixtures, and furniture.
Mr. Wolfe: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Let me ask; does that consider any venting
or exhaust exchange?
Mr. Wolfe: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: It does include that. It is not just interior
equipment; it is roof mounted and the whole bit.
Mr. Wolfe: Right.
Chair Furfaro: We have got about twenty-five thousand
dollars ($25,000) a month for operating cost, which about eighty percent (80%) is
related to Payroll, Taxes, and Benefits (PT&B).
Mr. Wolfe: Eighty percent (80%) and rent.
Chair Furfaro: And the fixed rent?
Mr. Wolfe: Yes.
COUNCIL MEETING 26 JUNE 12, 2013
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Very good. I thank you for your
presentation today. Vice Chair, I will not be participating in the second round of
questions.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you very much.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you.
Ms. Nakamura: Councilmember Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you. I have a question for Joel.
Mr. Huesby: What page?
Ms. Yukimura: I am sorry?
Mr. Huesby: What page are you looking at?
Ms. Yukimura: I am looking at page eight (8), but it may be
more than that. The possibilities are really exciting that you show and they hinge a
lot on quality control and good management. My question is the new part of this—
because you said that all your previous examples have been private enterprise is
that you are working now with a group rather than a single business and you are
working with a nonprofit which is about people cooperating at a high level.
Mr. Huesby: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: My question is how are you factoring that in?
For example, do you have conflict of interest controls in the bylaws and so forth
because I am remembering some of the issues from the early efforts to the
transition from a sugar plantation economy to a more diversified economy... those
issues came up in terms of people using resources of a group for their own use and
so forth. That is on the negative kind of preventative side and then the other is the
empowering and enabling side. How do you train a group to work together and
make these risky and difficult decisions that require a lot of foresight? How do you
learn to work above personalities and professionalism and all of that?
Mr. Huesby: Those are very good questions. I just got
done these past two (2) years helping to form a cooperative, a livestock producer
cooperative, on the mainland which is a much larger facility that has about seven
hundred sixty thousand dollars ($760,000) invested by member producers into that
cooperative, in addition to about one million four hundred thousand dollars
($1,400,000) of State zero-interest loan money to build a facility that should be
operational in a couple of months. Within those articles of incorporation and
bylaws, which I can use that come over if we form Kaua`i Meat Producers
Association (KMPA). Within that, there are ways that we can make sure there are
no conflicts of interest and avoid abuses within the systems, power-plays, and
things like that. The fact of the matter is that people are people, and there will be
personal rubs all of the time. I would suggest that the steering committee that goes
forward and even the KMPA Board of Directors, if you will, needs to be very
carefully considered, thought through, and vetted for not only what they bring to
the table and what they bring to the organization and to the board and how they
interact with other people. Are they going to be either a stick a in the mud on
COUNCIL MEETING 27 JUNE 12, 2013
things or are they going to be active but still able to look at other people's views and
opinions and hold them as valid? I can say from my own personal—I had a larger
direct market family business that was doing over two million five hundred
thousand dollars ($2,500,000) of sales and it tanked in part because of personality
conflicts. I take firsthand the fact that making sure that the team that you put
together fits well together. It is very important. The other side of that is that in all
of our relationships through the production chain, from cow calf, stocker/finisher,
butcher, distributor, retail, or however these things are; the breakdown of a supply
chain happens at interfaces between those entities, and that we have very well-
defined relationships for what you are going to supply in terms of weaner calves or
your cost per pound to gain on stockers or all of those things are very important.
The other side of it is if you do things on a contract basis with our suppliers and
things like that, and if does not work and you and I cannot get along, we can cut the
sheets and that is done that year because we know that conflict will happen, and we
need to plan for it. We can have different ways where if something does not work,
other people can take up the slack. I think about these things a lot. People
management is probably as much or more important than financial management.
Ms. Yukimura: For George, Susan, and KEBD, we are just
talking about this Multi-Species Processing Facility and now we are talking about
three (3) groups working together to run a location and so forth. That is a lot of
relationships and a lot of management of a different nature than just running a
business. Thank you.
Mr. Costa: I cannot agree with you more. What we are
doing is unprecedented, but it will take a lot of coordination and effort.
Ms. Nakamura: I think that is the thing; the foundation that
we set now and the professionalism that we set and the relationship building and
really building this from the ground up is so important. I think you have set us on a
good course to make it an inclusive process. Excuse me. Councilmember Bynum,
and then Councilmember Hooser.
Mr. Bynum: I want to thank you all for this whole
process, which I am really invested in and pleased with. The Council has made a
big investment in the CEDS and with one (1) exception, I have been very happy
with the outcomes. We are also at a critical time, where we put a lot of investment
into feasibility but now we are at a place, "Well, what are we going to implement?"
I want to throw out a bunch of questions that I do not need answers now because it
is clear to me that we do not have the time today to do the in depth discussion that I
would like. I already brought up the land issue and I am surprised that I do not see
a room full of cattlemen. I have not seen local people step up—thank you. There
you are. Maybe they are going to testify when we do public hearing, but so far I
heard from you guys and I am impressed. I have not heard, "These are the entities
that we are dealing with and these are the people that are going to step up to be
nonprofit or the Board of Directors."
Mr. Huesby: Great questions.
Mr. Bynum: We are getting into that level of detail now.
I do not need this answer now, but when I look at the incubator, I am looking at,
`Well, there is about one million five hundred thousand dollars ($1,500,000) of
County investment over the next six (6) years." I do not know where you are
intending to get grant funds and I do not need it today, but I would like to have an
COUNCIL MEETING 28 JUNE 12, 2013
outline from George guys, "Okay, what kind of financial commitment are we looking
at, should these all move directly from the County?" I am okay with because we are
incubating business, diversity, and important goals, but I am not clear about what
that financial commitment is going to be asked of the Council. We have a lot of
competing priorities. I just wanted to throw out those questions. I do not need
answers right now, but I am very excited about where we are going with this. I
have been really supportive and I want to continue to be supportive. The last thing
I want to throw out is I think there was a rush at one point to focus on our County
Building across the street as this multipurpose place, which it may turn out is
feasibility. I think you all have been very careful not to say that today, which has
sensitivity to some of the concerns that it was moving too quickly to focus on one (1)
potential facility. That may be the answer eventually but I think all of us do not
want to rush to that and to look at other viable alternatives. Thank you for letting
me outline those things that we can follow-up offline or in writing or whatever.
Thank you.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you, Councilmember Bynum.
Councilmember Hooser.
Mr. Hooser: Just a quick follow-up to Councilmember
Bynum. I have expressed this concern to others about the management. Who is the
managing entrepreneur? We are putting the thing together by committee and
normally my experience in business is that the managing entrepreneur comes
forward first, then he or she does the plan, rather than we do the plan and go find
someone to manage is it. Who is going to have skin in the game? Who is going to
sign the loan documents? Who is going to be responsible? All of this kind of stuff
has not been answered and I understand it is down the road, but that is a concern.
The question that I have, as Councilmember Kagawa was asking questions about
hamburger and whatnot, I started to think, "I buy local beef at Kojima's." There are
other local markets, I believe. Did your study look at the impact, perhaps the
unintended consequences, of competing against other local markets; a government
subsidized entity competing against others who have been trying to do this for a
long time? If you could speak briefly about that point, I would appreciate it.
Mr. Huesby: It was a concern of mine, as you recall last
year Nadine, I brought that up and the feasibility study portion where I said,
"Anything that we do here as a government subsidized or started up entity, cannot
in my opinion, be fair to the existing establishments by stealing market share."
That is not right. Everything that I have been trying to do or proposing is about
additive or augmenting, adding to rather than dividing and spreading out. There is
plenty enough market demand on the island that an additional processing facility
would not be to the detriment to the existing establishments. You have got to
understand that I am highly sensitive to that because I come from that world.
Mr. Hooser: Thank you.
Ms. Nakamura: Councilmember Kagawa.
Mr. Kagawa: I would just like to follow-up. Right now, do
we know how much it costs per pound to ship cattle to the mainland? Roughly?
Maybe fifty cents ($0.50) a pound? Less? Is that accurate?
Mr. Huesby: I have an idea, but I would like it straight
from someone who knows better.
COUNCIL MEETING 29 JUNE 12, 2013
Mr. Kagawa: What have you heard? An estimate? Just a
rough cost?
Mr. Huesby: I think it is like sixty cents ($0.60) or so.
Mr. Kagawa: Sixty cents ($0.60) per pound? That is the
most important reason why we would have a facility here, right? It is to save those
shipping costs.
Ms. Nakamura: Can you please introduce yourself?
KARIN CARSWELL GUEST, Princeville Ranch: My name is Karin
Carswell Guest. I am with Princeville Ranch. Half of my calf crop, I keep here for a
grass fed market and half I ship to the mainland. I cannot give you a straight
answer on that. There are three (3) ways you can do it. You can retain ownership
when you ship your cow and see them all the way through and you have a cattle
manager that runs that program for you, or you can just ship them right when they
get weaned as weaned cattle, so you have one dollar ($1) or one dollar and ten cents
($1.10) a pound and that is a cyclical thing. Right now, ranchers are getting a really
good price. In the past, it has been sixty-five cents ($0.65) a pound. I have my own
market so I slaughter at Andrade's and then Bernard Medeiros processes for me,
and then I get it delivered and I have about five (5) or six (6) markets, mostly on the
North Shore. For shipping wise, I cannot give you a straight answer because I can
give you—I can basically give you a cost of what you would make if you sell them at
weaning and what the cost is if you retain them all the way through. Those are a
little bit comparable. Sometimes you make a little bit more when you retain. It just
depends on the year, but one of the questions that I wanted to answer that you had
asked. You said, "Are you going to make more if you keep your cattle here?" For
me, I do that, so instead of getting one dollar ($1) a pound, I am getting above two
dollars ($2) a pound for the cattle that I keep here. If it is done in the right way, I
have gotten probably twenty (20) restaurants that have called me that want to
supply our beef, but I do not have enough supply.
Mr. Kagawa: It goes back to the comparison of the fish and
poke that we buy at the store. The fishermen work so hard to catch that one (1)
tuna, and when they sell it, it is like, "I just made a few bucks." It is hard work.
For the cattle people, you guys are raising the cattle, building and fixing fences all
the time and when you sell it for barely a profit, it does not encourage more
farming. I think if we can have that facility work like we envision it, I think it is
going to take off as far as some of our needs for good ag... it is naturally growing
beef and we eat a lot of it, so it would be really be good.
Ms. Carswell Guest: Yes.
Mr. Kagawa: Right now, we see nice meat at Costco, but if
I had the same, I think I would rather buy local if I could, just so that I can support
the local economy. Hopefully other people on Kaua`i feel the same way. Even if it is
a little more, I would be willing to buy the local beef.
Ms. Carswell Guest: Yes. If I just might add one (1) more thing. I
think it is really critical— there are some ranchers here and they are in the room,
believe it or not. They do not have their cowboy hats on but they are here. We have
been talking about this for a really long time so whether this happens altogether
COUNCIL MEETING 30 JUNE 12, 2013
with this concerted effort with everything, whether that happens or not, we need to
have a processing facility. We have slaughter right now, which is taken care of but
we have very limited processing. That is the bottleneck. If we can get the
processing, the ranchers will commit. They will see the profit. They will see the
reward of keeping cattle here locally because it is a lot more rewarding for me to see
the cattle through here rather than ship them off. It is your pride; it is your ranch
and you are nurturing these cows and taking care of them. When people come up to
me, "I ate your beef and it is so good. Where can I get more of that?" It is very
rewarding as a rancher, just as it is a farmer, to keep your products locally. We
need to have a processing facility at some point. A lot of the ranchers have been
supportive of it. It has been a long process and so our goal is to see that through
one way or another because I think it will benefit the island, as well as the
ranchers.
Mr. Kagawa: Just to be clear because I have watched cows
being slaughtered at the slaughterhouse. They are halved and taken, but the
processing would do what with that half of the cow?
Ms. Carswell Guest: People often get mistaken between
"slaughter" and "process." Slaughter is the actual slaughtering part. What Bernard
Medeiros does for me in this case, is he cryovacs it, cuts it, and wraps it so there are
a lot of ranchers will take the actual carcass or half a carcass to the grocery store,
and they have a butcher there and they just put in their cases. For me it is actually
sealed/cryovacked, and then I can take it to Kilauea Town Market. I can sell it out
of the gas station store and that sort of thing; that is the difference.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you.
Ms. Nakamura: Final follow-up question from JoAnn
Yukimura, and then we want to open it up for public comments before we break for
lunch.
Ms. Yukimura: Before Karin leaves, if I could ask a question.
It sounds from your testimony... and thank you so much for being here. It really is
good to hear from the rancher herself. The real need and the big need is the
processing between the slaughter— you seem to have developed your own retail. I
presume other ranchers can do the same and that they will not be in only one (1)
location, but in multiple retail places, so the real need is processing?
Ms. Carswell Guest: Yes. There are a lot of ranchers on the island
that are kind of backyard ranchers. They might have ten (10) head or they might
have fifteen (15) head, and they need somebody to market it for them to say, "Okay,
bring your cattle in. We will process it. We will buy it from you and we will retail it
or even wholesale it to different markets."
Ms. Yukimura: So there is a marketing retail function that
is also needed for the smaller ones, but it is not site specific? It is a plan and a
process of marketing?
Ms. Carswell Guest: Yes. It is kind of the whole— somebody
cannot just take twenty (20) head and market it because that would be three (3)
weeks of...
COUNCIL MEETING 31 JUNE 12, 2013
Ms. Yukimura: Right, so then my question for Joel is when
you talked about rent and you mentioned commercial space. Does it have to be
commercial space or can it be industrial space, which I think could be cheaper and
still does not foreclose on a retail function.
Mr. Huesby: Right. If the processing is independent of
the larger food hub or the idea of integrating with commercial kitchen business
incubation then it can certainly be at an industrial site...
Ms. Yukimura: Well, why could a commercial...
Mr. Huesby: Or industrial, that could be there too as far
as that goes— I am sorry, I misspoke.
Ms. Yukimura: No, that is kind of...all of us are grappling to
define the issue, but I think there has been an underlying assumption on some
people, not everyone, that a food hub needs to be in a commercial area. I do not
know if that is true. It could be that at least as far as a commercial kitchen and
Multi-Species Processing Facility, that could be in an industrial area and could still
have a retail component.
Mr. Huesby: It would depend on the location and the
atmosphere and everything. You get into a whole bunch of marketing, which is
beyond the scope of this right now, but that is correct. It is possible.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. My last question, if you will, Vice
Chair, is where in this whole issue—and it is probably not a question for these
gentlemen, but for George or Sue is where is the site selection process in this? Or is
it in here and I just missed it?
Ms. Nakamura: Why do we not have George answer that
question?
Mr. Costa: That would be addressed in the next phase
when we look at the food production center and looking at the site selection.
Obviously, I think Joel and even Chuck had alluded to in their presentations that a
more centralized location would be preferred. In the real estate circles, "location,
location, location." That would be vetted in the next phase.
Ms. Yukimura: George, who will be doing this site selection
study?
Mr. Costa: That is yet to be determined, once we
complete this and look at the next phase.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you.
Ms. Nakamura: That contract will be issued in the next
Fiscal Year.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay, so just do not do it like the landfill,
where the tail sometimes wags the dog.
Mr. Costa: Okay.
COUNCIL MEETING 32 JUNE 12, 2013
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you.
Ms. Nakamura: Just to clarify, there has been no feasibility
study on the retail component of the food hub. There has been no feasibility study
on the food handling component of the potential food hub and there has been no site
selection studies done for the concept of a food hub. That was what we put into the
Budget for this next Fiscal Year. Last follow-up question, Councilmember Bynum,
and then we will take public testimony.
Mr. Bynum: I just real briefly wanted to thank Karin and
the other ranchers that are here today because we need to hear from them as well.
I am very excited about the potential of moving this industry in a positive direction.
Thank you.
Ms. Nakamura: Council Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Costa, for the next piece, I want to let
you know that it is worth looking at Karin's model. We buy their beef on Thursday
up at Princeville, I think... the wife does the shopping but the product is excellent,
and the reality is that I think it gives us a good foundation of how we are going to
market the product afterwards. It is an excellent product, but we are going to have
to market it.
Mr. Costa: Thank you.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you very much, Chuck, Joel, and
George, for this presentation and answering all of our questions. We will be looking
forward to the follow-up based on the questions generated, and we will coordinate
through the Kaua`i Economic Development Board. We are going to now open up for
public comment. Can I have a show of hands of how many would like to speak on
this issue? I see three (3) hands. Okay. Lonnie, would you like to come up and be
the first to testify?
LONNIE SYKOS: Good morning, Council. For the record my
name is Lonnie Sykos. This is a very interesting project that is being proposed here
and there is the possibility of tremendous opportunity for the County in this. I
appreciate the effort that has gone into this project this far, but I was not impressed
by the numbers presented to us today. For my life's background, I grew up with a
grandfather who raised cattle. I learned to raise cattle as a child. We raised
roughly two dozen head on about forty-five (45) acres. They were purebred, papered
animals and he got both a price for breeding stock, as well as for selling into the
meat industry. He and his brothers did really well when they were able to
slaughter animals themselves, but as times changed and they no longer could
slaughter, he ended up with the same position that Kaua`i is in that your economics
is dependent to a large degree on efficiency and where the profit goes once the cattle
leaves the farm and goes into the processing deal. When I lived in Hana, Maui, at
one point, Hana Ranch and the hotel were bought by very wealthy people who were
big time cattle farmers in Texas. They brought their vets and science people out
and other things that I learned was how poor the soil is in Hawai`i for nutrients...
the expense that it took Hana Ranch to get the micronutrient levels into the feed up
to the point that the cattle grew at their maximum potential. What I heard the vet
say was that they could not lick a salt lick enough to get the minerals that they
needed in that they were being provided through nutritional supplements. As a
COUNCIL MEETING 33 JUNE 12, 2013
child, I watched people participate in raising their own feed for the winter. On my
grandfather's farm, he produced enough hay to support all of his livestock; the two
(2) mules, the horse that plowed, the tractors did not need fuel, and all of that. Out
in his fields, he did not have just grass, but it was an intended mixture of clover and
other things to increase the protein and the nutrients in the feed. My point in this
is that it makes perfect sense to improve our pastures to get more production out of
them. If they do pasture improvement, we will in fact, get much better production.
But it boils down to the financial question of can you afford to improve the
pasturage?
Ms. Nakamura: That is your first three (3) minutes, Lonnie.
Mr. Sykos: Thank you. I do not have any issue at all
with trying to do this, but I do have an issue with studying the finances of this so
that we do not end up ten (10) years from now having to either come up with public
money to continue to subsidize this, or we leave the ranchers in the lurch in that
they devoted their time to develop this new way and then it does not work out. I
would just encourage you to be ruthless about the numbers in this because the
market is ruthless. In regards to fish processing, I am no expert in this, but when I
was a commercial fisherman and I do not believe the law has changed, I can take a
fish out of my fish box, butcher it, and sell butchered fish in the harbor. That is
legal. There is a completely different body of law governing butchering fish and
butchering warm blooded animals. This facility could be used to butcher fish as
well, but you do not need this type of facility to process fish. Processing fish does
not require the same level of control that the warm blooded animals do. On one
hand, it is good to try and get as many benefits out of the one (1) activity as
possible, but on the other side, you run the risk of overcomplicating what you are
trying to do and end up with unintended expenses and unintended outcomes. For
the cattlemen, it is certainly the way to go. One of my close friends works for his
brother-in-law in Colorado on their family ranch. They are actually twenty (20)
years into doing this, that the whole issue of how do you control the cost of finishing
the cattle, getting them to market, and identifying the markets to go to. I would
simply make this statement to you that in regards to our local market as a generic
way of looking at things for the farm producer, your per unit price will go up as you
sell into your local market, until market saturation hits about eighty percent (80%).
At that point, you start running into more product available than demand. Right
now, the demand for the product is greater than the production, so part of this
financial equation has to take into account, "what is the actual potential market on
Kaua`i and what is going to happen to the price as you approach one hundred
percent (100%)?"
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you, Lonnie. That is your six (6)
minutes.
Mr. Sykos: The same for export. It is the same type of
economic understanding. Thank you.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you. Can we have the next speaker?
JOHN LATKIEWICZ, Hawaii Small Business Development Center: John
Latkiewicz with the Hawaii Small Business Development Center. I was part of the
hui that was recently kicking around the Commercial Kitchen Business Incubator
idea, and I want to underline something that will Mr. Wolfe said, which is that
really the emphasis in many ways on this is business incubation. It is really— I
COUNCIL MEETING 34 JUNE 12, 2013
know from my senses as I have worked with various groups that you see the kitchen
and it is really exciting. When we saw the Pacific Gateway Center, I was part of the
group that went there and you just kind of drool. It is a great facility, but the
reality is they are not incubating. What that incubation is really is working with
those individuals, looking at people that have the potential to really grow the
business. One of the things that I am beginning to see is just a kind of churning of
food trucks. I am having people come in and say, "Oh, this truck is available."
What I want to say to them is, "Yes, and in six (6) months it will be available again."
Food trucks are fine and I want to support all and every business that we have on
the island. I am happy to do so, but I think that incubation really has a potential of
developing new products, developing new markets, and getting beyond just an
individual supporting themselves and perhaps growing the business to where it is
supporting a number of our Kaua`i residents. I just wanted to again underline
business incubator, not commercial kitchen. Thank you.
Ms. Nakamura: John, there is one (1) question for you.
Ms. Yukimura: I totally support the idea of incubator and I
think the possibility is a great one. I think that the Pacific Gateway does claim
quite a few restaurants and other businesses that they incubated started as food
wagons, some of them, and then launching into other more permanent sites and
businesses. What is it that makes an incubator?
Mr. Latkiewicz: It is a number of different services. On the
other hand, it is a matter of the most basic level you could look at it as a business
just passing through. They happened to have rented and they happened to have
grown and they went on their way, but outside of the facility, was there really any
significant positive impact. If you are beginning to really work with individuals on
a business incubation center basis, then it really is a matter of looking at on an
ongoing basis of what the financials are. Beginning to look at a recipe development
or maybe helping them work through all the aspects of developing their supply
chain and developing their distribution channels. It is a much more intensive
service. It is not sort of like—I say this jokingly, but like some selling cookies. It is
not just that. It really is a matter of think of "where are the markets?" "How are
we going to access it?" "Who are the players that we need to get to the table?" It is
a much more intensive service; again, everything from product development to
marketing, to distribution. One of the things, I guess, again, as you know, what I do
is work on a one-on-one basis with individuals. I have really the greatest respect for
everybody who works through my doors, but the number of individuals that I see, a
number of them is really sort of struggling. They do not have access to all of those
kinds of resources. The other day, I heard somebody talking about creating a
specific texture for their product. Wow, that is not something any of my clients tend
to walk in the door with is thinking in that level of detail and how to really begin to
start targeting their product. It is that kind of really stepping up the level of
business acumen that the person has. It is a lot of those kinds of services. Again, I
always talk about, "It is not just that you are an entrepreneur, you are an
entrepreneurial team." This really has a possibility of bringing everybody... a lot of
other team members to the table.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you, John. Would anyone else like to
testify?
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me. Sandi, first of all, let me just
thank you on your recent retirement, but for all of your service in our community.
COUNCIL MEETING 35 JUNE 12, 2013
SANDI KATO-KLUTKE: You are very welcome. Council Chair
Furfaro, retirement is not part of my forte. Good morning everybody. My name is
Sandi Kato-Klutke and yes, I just recently retired. I am still very active with the
Farm Bureau, the farmers, and people who want to make things. That is why I am
here today. Also, regarding tourism because people come to Kaua`i to buy products.
They want to take our stuff home, but they want a place that they can go everyday
and not just Mondays at 3:00 p.m. at Kmart or Saturdays from 9:30 a.m. to
1:00 p.m. at KCC because they have golf to do, they have helicopter rides, and they
have beaches to go to. When we say we want to do a food center, I want to call it
"The Kauai Marketplace." For those of you that have been to Seattle, you know
what Pike's Place Market is. They have homemade sausages, fresh pork, chicken,
stuff that they make, bakery goods, crafts, and things that are made in Washington.
We can say that the Kauai Made and Kaua`i Grown is actually things made on
Kaua`i. With that, I am an end user in both making the product and as well as
buying products. I have seen JoAnn run through the market on a Saturday at 1:00
p.m. when we are ready to close with two (2) bags and I am thinking, "She is always
late." I do not know about here though, JoAnn. Today, I did make some stuff for
you to see what an end user of a commercial kitchen does. Can you pass these out
for me? I have one (1) for each of you, but not enough for the staff or the audience,
but you can come and buy my products on Saturdays. If you open up your box, I
will tell you about products that people want to make and sell. First of all, you have
Mango Butter. That is made with pure Kaua`i harvested honey, has real butter,
and has mangos, but I wanted you to know as frozen mango, because people— you
cannot just use all of the mango that is being harvested, so I froze the mango.
Today, I wanted you to see what frozen mango does within your butter.
Ms. Nakamura: That is your first three (3) minutes, Sandi.
You have three (3) more additional minutes.
Ms. Kato-Klutke: This morning I made you some taro biscuits
with Hanalei taro in it. I also made you a mango muffin that has mangos, coconut,
raisins, and pecans. The commercial kitchen concept was something that we all
talked about a couple of years ago...three (3) or four (4) years ago. But Sandy, the
pie lady, has already gone off and found her own place. I went out and I am
actually using Moloa`a Bay, but there are people that do not have that ability. To
have a commercial kitchen where they can come and test their products to see—
and you have to have a realize retail store to see if it sells. I make Lilikoi Butter
and I got an offer to make three thousand (3,000) jars a month to sell to this one
company. I cannot do three thousand (3,000); I refuse to do three thousand (3,000).
I really need a storefront to sell this, so if we had a Kaua`i Marketplace that we
would sell processed beef, chicken, fish, or any of the products that we could make,
including a Farmer's Market, that would be ideal. JoAnn does not have to run on a
Saturday at 1:00 p.m., but she can come during her lunch break from here. Thank
you and I please consider that for everyone.
Ms. Nakamura: Councilmember Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: On top of it all, I think you retire very well.
You just do not retire, but you have a compostable container. Congratulations for
that too.
Ms. Kato-Klutke: My sister is the Kaua`i Community College—
she runs the Kulia Grill at the John Burns School of Medicine. For them,
COUNCIL MEETING 36 JUNE 12, 2013
everything has to be biodegradable. When she came to see what I had, she scolded
me and so I bought biodegradable boxes because I make mochi and I put them in all
biodegradable boxes.
Ms. Yukimura: They are beautiful and sustainable. Thank
you.
Ms. Kato-Klutke: Thank you.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you very much, Sandi, for a very
special treat. Anyone else wishing to speak? Please, come on up.
SANDY POEHNELT, The Right Slice, LLC.: My name is Sandy
Poehnelt and I did not bring pie, but I do own The Right Slice pie shop. I just
wanted to speak in support of the incubator kitchen project. As a relatively new
small business here on Kaua`i, I have kind of gone through the whole process in the
last four (4) years and I was lucky enough to find John from the SBDC to help me
through that process. I think that the incubator kitchen project would be a place
where we could connect as consumers but also as business owners with the farmers.
If we could tie it together with the meat processing as well, I think that is important
to have that opportunity both as a business person and as an end consumer. I think
it is also going to be helpful. My support of the project, I think, is more from a
business perspective, that this can help small businesses grow and succeed but not
necessarily be out on their own and to fumble through and to learn as they go. They
are going to have more support. I think that is something important here, which is
to have that support system to get our small businesses off on the right track, but
also to keep them on that path so they can be successful and we can help our
economy here. It can be a very daunting task to open a business. We see a lot of
failure because it is a difficult process, but we owe it to ourselves to try to get this
incubator kitchen up and running so that we can help other businesses. I do feel
also as that as a member of Kaua`i Made, I think it is important to have a retail
portion of the project, if it proves to be feasible in the study, because I think it is a
good place to start to have a Kaua`i Made/Kaua`i Grown retail store where even
those of us that are not using the incubator kitchen can offer our products to both
residents and visitors. We always want to take something from the mainland when
we go to visit and our visitors here want to take something back with them. If we
could have someplace where they could go, like Sandi said, five (5) days a week or
seven (7) days a week, but they know that everything there is Kaua`i Made/Kaua`i
Grown. It is going to give a better representation of our island as well. Thank you.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you very much.
MARK OYAMA, Mark's Place/Contemporary Flavors Catering: Good
morning. Mark Oyama. I come with two (2) hats today; one (1) as a Culinary
Instructor at Kaua`i Community College and as a business owner. First of all, I was
sitting by Sandi all morning and I did not get any box of treats so I am kind of sad
today. Sandi does a great job. Hearing some of the things here and I know some of
the concerns are about saturated market or taking away someone else's business. I
think with these things here, first of all, with the commercial kitchen, it actually
brings more awareness, more marketability, and a want for products on the island.
For me, personally, I actually like when there is more restaurants by mine because
there is more awareness and more people coming in the area and more visibility in
that area. When restaurants open up in area, I have asked them, "Do you need help
when you open up. I know it is hard. Call us, and we will help you. If you need
COUNCIL MEETING 37 JUNE 12, 2013
something last minute, we will bring it up for you." It brings a better market to our
area. As a Culinary Instructor, having a kitchen like this and an incubator kitchen,
it actually would be great for my students. They come with a lot of great ideas.
They want to go and start something but the cost of opening a business or
restaurant, or even if you wanted to do a food truck; to find a location and actually
do it—we do train them on business aspects but to start being trained on the
specifics because we do a wide variety of training. That is what they need. They
need some kind of assistance to find grants, help, or even to find financial help to
get started. I think it is a great opportunity for our kids who are graduating from
school and wants to be somebody on the island. I have passion on both sides here
and I actually worked with the Kaua`i Cattlemen's Association also. I have had
their beef, grass-fed. It is great. It is unbelievable. I actually did tests with my
students, having grass-fed beef compared to a well-marketed beef from the
mainland. Side-by-side, we have actually had the marketer from the mainland
come down, talk to my students, show them the cuts, got some local beef aged right,
grass-fed, and did a side-by-siding cutting, cooking, and tasting. As consumers, we
are trained that the softest meat is best, which is not true. The flavor of the cattle
we had, the bulk of our students chose the local beef because of the flavor. Sure the
other beef was a little tenderer, not much more, but the flavor was not there. As a
business person...
Ms. Nakamura: Mark, that is your first three (3) minutes.
You have an additional three (3) minutes.
Mr. Oyama: As a business person and a restaurateur,
the whole trend now is going to local (inaudible) and farm to table. I have been
looking for more products to use. The problem is that I cannot get the demand and
the amounts that I need; the consistency of the amounts. I cannot buy the whole
animal and utilize it. I need specific cuts. What better marketing tool is there for
tourists to come and say, "Hey, this is what we grow here and it tastes great." We
are marketing our island. When people come to Kaua`i, they want to see Kaua`i
and enjoy Kaua`i. This is what we are doing and this is the opportunity that we are
creating this with commercial kitchen and the processing plant. I strongly feel this
is really important and we need this over here for our island.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you very much
Mr. Oyama: Thank you.
Ms. Nakamura: Glenn, please come up.
GLENN MICKENS: For the record, Glenn Mickens. Thank you,
Nadine and thank you, BC. Just have a short testimony. I thank these gentlemen
for their fine presentation and for all the good questions that you guys asked. I
think there are a lot of answers that have to be forthcoming. I believe the factor
that they left out in their presentation of making local beef more attractive to our
people was that all health studies show today that red meat as being on a lesser use
than it was before. Some studies I think "60 Minutes" just had a program
recommending no red meat at all. I thought Ross brought up an excellent point
that we need to do more for our fishermen to get the real recommended food on the
health ladder in a price range that everyone can afford because it is outrageous, like
you say, they are paying the fishermen a one dollar ($1) or two dollars ($2) per
pound, and you go to the store and pay ten dollars ($10) to fifteen dollars ($15) a
pound for it. That is ridiculous. Steaks and hamburgers will be here. I grew up on
COUNCIL MEETING 38 JUNE 12, 2013
them and I am sure a lot of you did, but I eat a lot of fish because it is highly
recommended. You will not do away with it, but as Lonnie pointed out, I think the
economical part of this equation has to definitely be looked at. Whether it is going
to be feasible or not feasible, I guess that is up to the market to decide. There is
probably no doubt that the beef grown here is better tasting than the other, but
again, you are going to pay a premium for it but whether all local people can afford
that or not, that remains to be seen. I appreciate what these people are trying to do
and Sandi for her boxes. I wish she had enough for everybody in the audience. I
really appreciate what she is trying to do so to stimulate the Hawaiian local-grown
stuff. I think it is a great idea. Thank you, Nadine.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you, Glenn. Would anyone else like to
testify at this time? Mr. Rosa and then the woman back there. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Vice Chair, I want to make note that after
those two (2) testimonies, we need to take a caption break by law, so we will take
those the two (2) testifiers first.
JOE ROSA: Good morning, members of the Council. For
the record, Joe Rosa, as I am referred to as "The Historian." Some thirty-five (35) or
forty (40) years ago, Kaua`i had some (inaudible) flag lots that were operated by
Princeville out at Moloa`a. They were (inaudible) flag lots that Princeville used to
bring their cattle—I do not know if it is from Ranch or Robinsons who used to
come over with their big trailers with cattle to be fattened at Moloa`a. In the end of
it, they were using things from the pineapple brand, waste from the canneries, and
were also using the bagasse cubes that was mixed with some molasses to enhance
the cattle eat the gas. Local products to fatten the cattle. That was then that it
happened, but when Princeville started to go into land development, that thing
went out. A lot of these things are planned, but they do not last. It is a dream, yes,
but it does not stay to the end and be fulfilled. I know the cattlemen that used to
bring over the fattening lots over at Moloa`a, they pay a certain amount of fee to
Princeville people to bring their cattle over to get fattened and fed. Those are the
kind of things. You get people coming in talking about this, talking about that, and
the next thing that comes about, they had slaughterhouses. They had
slaughterhouses all over the place, but only a few, like today; the Andrades, the
Sanchers. Talk is easy and talk is cheap. We had a Kauai Products store in Kukui
Grove. It seemed like it was feasible. I shop around in Kukui Grove. I see the
tourists going in the store but all of a sudden, I see white sheets of paper on the
doors and on the windows. I found out it is closed. I said, "What happened? Where
is the tourist industry? Where is Economic Development promoting these kinds of
sales for the local people?" We had a local products store out in Kukui Grove. What
happened? Those are the kinds of things that people come in here and they talk but
they do not get the support for that person who put up the store. What Ross says—I
am another person but during my time, there were a lot of fishermen out there...
Ms. Nakamura: That is your first three (3) minutes,
Mr. Rosa. You have three (3) additional minutes.
Mr. Rosa: Like I was saying, come New Year's, the
fishermen used to say they got four dollars ($4) a pound for their shibi. Then New
Year's Eve, it goes sky high; fifteen dollars ($15) a pound. The fishermen are told,
"Gee, you guys are making money." They say, "Hell no, we only get four dollars ($4)
a pound, but they are selling it to you guys for fifteen dollars ($15). We have hui
who say, "We join together and we buy all the fish from you fishermen and give you
COUNCIL MEETING 39 JUNE 12, 2013
a good price at four ($4), but selling it in the market for fifteen dollars ($15)." So do
you think that is fair to the fishermen? Those are the kind of things you have to
look into that we call "fairness." Fairness for the dealers, fairness for the
fishermen, fairness for the cattlemen. Talking about industry or anything
commercial like what they talk about, processing. You do not put it in a commercial
area, like in a town or city. That should go into a business commercial zoning area
like Lihu`e Industrial Tract, where you have businesses and things like that. Put it
in a proper place and make sure there is accessibility. Kaua`i roads are the worst
because it is one way in and one way out for the past eighty (80) years. I talk
because I was working with the Department of Transportation (DOT). DOT had
twenty (20) year plans, but they do not follow them. That is why when JoAnn talks
about the twenty (20) year plan coming up on the 13th, it is going to be a waste
because twenty (20) years will come and go and nothing will be done. Think about
this because people come here and they talk big, but how long will they stay? Like
you say, they mentioned renting commercial areas. It is high. It is expensive.
Those are the kinds of things that they have to deal with when coming here to
Kauai. Kaua`i is expensive. Everybody is beginning to find that out and know it. I
have got nothing against the cattlemen, but maybe they need something to sell their
product, but be careful. Hopefully they are here to stay and also, we have got a lot
of ag land here on Kaua`i, and if you need it for ranching but a lot of it will be
asking for rezoning because they cannot be paying taxes without anything coming
in for revenue. All of these things are coming up so be careful. Ranchers need ag
land. You need pasture land and we have a lot of vacant plantation, sugar cane
lands that are available for ranching, if they want the so-called "grass-fed."
Ms. Nakamura: Mr. Rosa, that is your six (6) minutes.
Thank you very much.
Mr. Rosa: Thank you.
Ms. Nakamura: I think there is another speaker. Come on
up.
LORI CARDENAS: My name is Lori Cardenas. I am almost a
lifelong resident of Kaua`i, since I was eleven (11). For the past twelve (12) years, I
have I owned and operated Aunty Lilikoi products in Waimea. All I can say is when
I bought the business twelve (12) years ago, I wish there was something like what
we are planning. I bought the business. There were five (5) recipes and a trade
name when I bought it. I needed someplace to make my products. There were not
any commercial kitchens around to share. I had to open my own, which I did. My
husband and I invested the money and we did that, but then I grew, and I needed to
do it again. If I could have cut out the first commercial kitchen by using an
incubator kitchen, I think my business— although it is good and we are surviving, I
think my business would be a little bit healthier, financially. Also, as far as
incubators are concerned, in addition to facilities, what is a real value by asset of
something like an incubator system is the nurturing of each other of the businesses
nurturing each other and mentoring each other. I think that, in addition to the
facilities, would be just the most valuable asset of something like that. I would
encourage progression of this and the eventual opening of something like this, with
the retail component because I think that would really be important, because my
kitchen had to have a retail component so that I could pay for it. What Sandi
mentioned, about tourism, I think that is good because eighty percent (80%) of the
visitors to Kaua`i buy Kaua`i Made products. For them to have a central location to
buy something like that and buy a big array of products including meat and fish, I
COUNCIL MEETING 40 JUNE 12, 2013
had not thought about that originally but I think that is a great idea. A lot of them
rent timeshares and cook. I think that would be absolutely great. I think that is all
I have got. Thank you.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you very much for your testimony.
That is our good-to product for omiyage when we go away. I hope you can consider
being a mentor to others.
Ms. Cardenas: Absolutely.
Ms. Nakamura: Since there is no other public testimony, we
will take a recess at this time.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. We are in recess until 11:40 p.m.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 11:30 a.m.
The meeting reconvened at 11:42 a.m., and proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: The Council is back in session from our
caption break. Vice Chair, I will continue to let you run the committee. You have
comments and you need to call the meeting back to order to take those comments.
You still need to call the meeting back to order and ask for discussion.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you. Let us call the meeting back to
order. Councilmembers, do you have any comments? Councilmember Bynum.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Mr. Bynum: I really appreciate the update. I think that
these are exciting proposals that I am very hopeful come to fruition. I think there
are a lot of details and I gave a list of things to the consultants, Susan, and to
Maddie, in that I hope we can discuss further maybe offline but overall, I am very
pleased, and I want to acknowledge—for the many times I have acknowledge, but
for the leadership of Councilmember Nakamura, who started this process before she
was a Councilmember and really is providing important leadership for our
community. Thank you. Thanks to KPAA and KEDB for their excellent work and
the consultants. Thank you.
Ms. Nakamura: Councilmember Kagawa.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you, Chair. I want to thank the
entire group that showed up today to present. I really am excited about the
possibilities going forward and I would like to thank in particular, Lori and Sandy,
business owners that have expressed how important it is for new starting business
owners to have an opportunity to test their product without going bankrupt. As a
son of a mom who owned a restaurant, Sue's Snack Shoppe in `Ele`ele Shopping
Center. She owned it for twelve (12) years. She closed down because the rent was
too high and she could not make a decent profit working ten (10) to twelve (12)
hours a day, for six (6) days a week. I can empathize with the business owners who
are trying to be their own bosses and they have a good recipe and what not, but you
have to be able to test it before putting down that big one hundred thousand dollar
($100,000) or two hundred thousand dollar ($200,000) investment. Like I said,
COUNCIL MEETING 41 JUNE 12, 2013
before I got elected, we have a lot of great cooks on Kaua`i. We could even be better
than Hilo, I believe in that omiyage area. That in itself can be a great attraction for
visitors as they come to Kaua`i. I think it is shown. Look at the KCC's Farmer's
Market on Saturday. The particular wagons are full. We have great products that
my wife goes to every Saturday. I think it is very positive, as far as this whole
concept and idea. I know Councilmembers have some concerns about the particular
numbers but I think going forward, we can works through those problems and we
can find the right location for the beef and everything. Like I said, I would like to
see if we could also look at the area of fishing because as you all know, ahi is a
prized the item for all of us. When we think of what we want to eat, that is one of
the top things; the poke and sashimi. We have to help our local fishermen survive.
The price of diesel and gas is just outrageous. They are not getting their fair share
of what they catch. If we could also expand into that area, hopefully that can be
done also. With that, thank you, Chair, for this item and I will really be supporting
you along this way.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you. Chair Furfaro.
Chair Furfaro: Yes, I want to thank everybody for taking us
this far in the potential of the three thousand six hundred (3,600) square foot
commercial kitchen and the incubator for businesses that will help us eventually
get to self sustainability in some way, shape or form. I also want to say I am very
impressed with what the Carswells are doing out on the North Shore with cattle.
The fact of the matter is that there are a few of us that have some history here with
my own children who traced their original ancestry back to Luis Antonio Domingo
Gomez, the Spanish cowboy from Princeville Ranch, who was the original foreman.
Christiane Nakea's grandfather was the foreman after that. Then we had
Mr. Aming out in Princevill and now the Carswells are the steward of Princeville
Ranch and they are producing a fine cut of beef up on the North Shore. I do want to
encourage George to closely study the model that they have because I think it is
something that will help us get to a food solution for beef, and whether it is steak or
sukiyaki, it is something that we all enjoy here on the island. Thank you, Vice
Chair, for coordinating this. I really look forward to the August presentation that
will deal with the product quality controls. I think that is very important for the
product to be successful that we understand that target and the market and how it
will be marketed. I look forward to the August presentation.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you. Councilmember Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you. The things discussed this
morning were extremely exciting because they go to the heart of our efforts to
diversify the economy. They will support and create small businesses. They will
help us to import substitution and they intersect with tourism and the products
that visitors want to take home and our local tourists who are looking for omiyage.
They are very exciting and also breaking new grounds. How we proceed on this is
very important. In terms of the Kaua`i Grown and Kaua`i Made retail center work
and Sandi Kato-Klutke's idea of a Kaua`i Marketplace; they begin to border on this
idea of a Kaua`i version of the Pike Street Marketplace, which would be a year
round, weeklong Farmer's Market of sorts. Maybe our experience with Kaua`i
Products failed because it did not include food. Formulating that concept, however,
is very different than a food hub that is attached to a commercial kitchen and
Multi-Species production process. I think we have to sort these ideas out very
carefully. They may not be located at the same place and that does not prohibit
having a retail section to the Multi-Species Processing Facility and the commercial
COUNCIL MEETING 42 JUNE 12, 2013
kitchen. That may not be the food hub we are talking about. As we structure the
feasibility study, I think we have to think very carefully about that. Then there is
the issue of sustainability, which I think Councilmember Hooser really focused on.
The idea of production that Councilmember Bynum raised because having long
term leases to good pasture land would seem to be really—that is well-managed,
would be very important. We have the case of the Fruit Disinfestation Plant, which
I think we deemed not feasible because there is not sufficient production. We have
to remember that without production, all of these processing issues do not get
addressed. How we are using our ag land for tenured for farmers and all of that is
an important part of this picture as well that I think needs to be addressed. With
that being said, I just want to thank the consultants, who have been very good and
as I said, "precedent setting," although there have been questions and I guess they
will be addressed subsequently. I want to thank KEDB and the Office of Economic
Development, and I do want to thank Vice Chair Nakamura, who has really exerted
a lot of leadership in this area.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you. We will be following up with all
of the good comments and questions that came out of this process regroup with OED
and KEDB to address these issues to see what can and cannot be accomplished. I
think the main thing is to look at this next phase of funding and how we are going
to structure the contracts, and how we are going to proceed. I think Council
feedback on that process is going to be important. Thank you all for being here. We
will anticipate the final business plans from the two (2) consultants.
Ms. Nakamura returned Chairmanship duties to Chair Furfaro.
The motion to receive C 2013-213 for the record was then put, and
unanimously carried.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much. We are going to go to
the next item now and that next item will, in fact, be a request from
Councilmember Yukimura.
Mr. Rapozo: Mr. Chair, may I make a really quick
comment?
Chair Furfaro: Sure.
Mr. Rapozo: I understand that Councilmember Yukimura
wants her item up next. I also have my Resolution No. 2013-55. Mr. Hooser is a co-
introducer and he needs to leave at 4:00 p.m. today so I want to make sure that we
have time for that before he leaves.
Chair Furfaro: Why do we not make certain that we take
that when we return from lunch?
Mr. Rapozo: I would appreciate that, Mr. Chair. Thank
you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Clerk, did you hear the request that I
will honor?
Mr. Watanabe: Yes.
COUNCIL MEETING 43 JUNE 12, 2013
Mr. Hooser: Thank you very much.
There being no objections, Resolution No. 2013-57 was taken out of the order.
RESOLUTION:
Resolution No. 2013-57 — RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING AN
AFFORDABLE HOUSING ADVISORY COMMITTEE: Mr. Bynum moved for
adoption of Resolution No. 2013-57, seconded by Mr. Rapozo.
Chair Furfaro: JoAnn, at this time to open it up, I would
like to give you the floor.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you, Mr. Chair. This Resolution
before the Council would establish an Affordable Housing Advisory Committee. The
purpose of this committee would be to advise the Housing & Transportation
Committee on updating our Affordable Housing Ordinance, which is Chapter 7 in
our County Code. It is a need that I wanted to address for over a year, and in fact,
there was some funding for it in in the 2013 Council Budget, but it has taken a
while to get to this point. At any rate, we are here now today. Our rules establish
or say that an Advisory Committee will be established by Resolution; therefore, this
Resolution is before the Council. I am willing to answer any questions. You will see
that per our Council Rules, the membership is included there the Resolution. I
passed around a memo showing the affiliations of the different people recommended
for the Committee. They are people with expertise in Housing or work with people
who need affordable housing. The intention here was to get a diverse group of
people who have been working on the Housing issue to be part of this Committee.
Are there any questions? I do have an Amendment that specifies who the one (1)
other Councilmember is.
Chair Furfaro: Councilmember Kagawa has a question for
you.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you, Councilmember Yukimura. I
just wanted to ask you a question whether all of the members here on this list of
twenty-one (21) have agreed to serve on the Committee?
Ms. Yukimura: Yes, they all have agreed. They have been
sent a letter explaining what the role of the members would be on this Committee
and they have all consented.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you for the question.
Chair Furfaro: Vice Chair.
Ms. Nakamura: I have a question. The third "whereas" in
the Resolution talks about the need to update and make more effective the Housing
Policy of the County. Can you articulate what some of those concerns are of the
current policy or problems you have been hearing about that people are saying we
need to change?
COUNCIL MEETING 44 JUNE 12, 2013
Ms. Yukimura: Actually, the version that passed several
years ago was extremely complex, and so we have several examples of failure to
properly acquire affordable housing and keep it in the inventory for a long time.
The Courtyard at Waipouli and the project adjacent to the Lihu`e Industrial
subdivision along the Kaua`i Lagoons Golf Course are examples of it. We also have
a huge demand/need for affordable housing and I do not know at this point— I think
there are questions that have been raised about whether our Housing Ordinance is
sufficient to create the housing that we need to address the affordable housing need.
There are issues about— in the present provision, I think which Councilmember
Bynum has particular concerns about, is the implementation of the resort
requirements of affordable housing. There is a real question as to what is the most
efficient and effective way both from a developer's standpoint, and from the
County's standpoint in how we make requirements of developers.
Ms. Nakamura: So looking at the percentage of affordable
housing required for any potential future development?
Ms. Yukimura: Both the percentage and the form of the
requirement, whether it is land and infrastructure, or all of the housing itself.
Ms. Nakamura: I am sorry. I was not here when that
Affordable Housing Policy was first adopted and I know there was a lengthy
process. Thank you for clarifying.
Ms. Yukimura: The intention, if the Administration is
willing, is to work with the Administration on a draft. Then to have that vetted
with the Advisory Committee. It is similar to the way that we have been working
on Shoreline Setback amendments because I do want to acknowledge that the
Administration, which is both the Planning Department and the Housing Agency,
which are—they would be the implementers of the ordinance. We would not want
to do amendments without involving them.
Chair Furfaro: I am going to ask for the Housing
Department to come up, if I may.
Ms. Yukimura: Sure.
Chair Furfaro: There are two (2) parts to this. I assume you
participated in the selection of some of these volunteers for the Housing Advisory
Committee. Am I correct?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
KAMUELA COBB-ADAMS, Housing Director: No.
Chair Furfaro: You have not been consulted?
Mr. Cobb-Adams: No.
Chair Furfaro: How about you, Gary?
GARY MACKLER, Housing Development Coordinator: No, I have not.
COUNCIL MEETING 45 JUNE 12, 2013
Chair Furfaro: Let me ask the next part of the question. It
seems to be a very complete group for the exception perhaps, if this is a Resolution
that will lead to a new ordinance, then I would think that there might be a few
landowners added to this list if that is what it is leading to because it is only a
Resolution. Other than that, I think the list is pretty complete. I do not think any
particular group—I am posing a question, JoAnn and let me finish the question. I
do not think there is any particular group here of people who are committing to
Housing on this list, were not part of the list. It is pretty complete, would you not
say?
Mr. Mackler: I just saw the list a few minutes ago, but as I
look through the list, there are many familiar names that I see and many well
qualified people that I know of, who are identified on the list.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. You knew this was a goal for the
Council to have an advisory group to participate in this Resolution to help us make
contributions eventually to a new ordinance, if it needed addressing? I guess that is
what this is leading to.
Mr. Mackler: Well, we were aware last year through
budget that there was some money appropriated to establish an advisory committee
for that purpose, yes.
Chair Furfaro: I am going to recognize Councilmember
Yukimura, then I am going to recognize Mr. Rapozo, and then I am going to
recognize Mr. Bynum. JoAnn, you have the floor.
Ms. Yukimura: I just want to say for the record that we
invited Kamuela to be an ex-officio member of the Advisory Committee and he
declined. I accept that. They did express an interest in working with us on a draft,
and also that he would be part of a panel to help educate and orient the Advisory
Committee. If there are names that you would like to add and feel that need to be
added, we can add them today.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Cobb-Adams, is there a reason that you
would turn down a nonvoting position on the body. If it is not you, it is at least
someone from your management team?
Mr. Cobb-Adams: Yes. One of the things that we noted in our
reason was that we felt it was premature to make changes to this Ordinance. This
Ordinance is contingent upon private developers developing on Kaua`i and my
understanding is that it was passed right at the beginning of the decline of the
economy. We really have not had developers trying to develop here and because
they are not developing, they are not going to develop affordable housing which our
Ordinance requires. The two (2) instances, my understanding, Waipouli and
Kamamalu, were separate ordinances, so those failures or whatever you want to call
them were not part of this Ordinance No. 860. Although we can analyze something,
but until you see and give it an opportunity to actually thrive in an environment
where there is development going, you will not know what is good and what is not.
I feel like at this point in time, we are starting to see an upswing where landowners
are starting to come and inquire. That is a sign that maybe development is on the
horizon and we can better see what the issues are by having actual experiences. My
opinion, as you know, I have been here a year on June 1st so it is a very short time
but when I first read the Ordinance, I thought it was very well-thought out. They
COUNCIL MEETING 46 JUNE 12, 2013
thought about a lot of things. There may be some issues with it, but I would prefer
to wait and let it see its course and see what those issues are prior to making many
changes. We will see what happens. Also, there is a considerable amount of time
commitment and I think...
Chair Furfaro: My comment was not about you. My
comment was about you having a seat to send one of your management people.
That was my comment.
Mr. Cobb-Adams: Right now, I feel like we can make a greater
amount of change in other efforts, so our position would be to comment on suggested
amendments or whatever, instead of going because part of it, you have to spend half
a day going to different places and looking at affordable housing and a bunch of
hours. It is a lot of hours. I think our staff can put their efforts on doing the actual
work and leave it to the group.
Chair Furfaro: You have answered my question. I just
wanted to surface that. I am going to go to JoAnn and Mel, and then Mr. Bynum.
Ms. Yukimura: I am through. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Are you done? Okay. Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you, Mr. Chair and thank you for
being here. I think I have two (2) questions. The first one is that Councilmember
Yukimura mentioned "failures" in two (2) projects. I am thinking the one by
Restaurant Kintaro and the one by the golf course. Is that the position of the
Administration as well? I do not know. That is the first I have heard and I do not
see those projects as failures. In fact, I thought they were pretty successful. My
walking partner every morning lives in the one by Restaurant Kintaro, and he was
very complimentary about his ability as a single father to be able to rent in that
project. I am not aware of any problems or concerns.
Mr. Mackler: The Courtyards at Waipouli came online
during a very soft economy. They started leasing their units. It filled really from
the bottom-up in terms of income group. They struggled mightily to try to get units
filled initially for over one hundred percent (100%) of the median but below that,
they did very well. I do not know what their current occupancy has been averaging
there. There are forty-one (41) restricted units in that project and those, when we
have gone out to monitor, are running very full. With Kamamalu, the thirty-one
(31) unit condominium project near the airport, it stumbled out of the gate because
the Ordinance required leasehold sales. As we learned, there was no way to
effectuate leasehold sales because loans not be made locally and purchased on the
secondary market by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, so we came back to the Council
as some of you may recall. We asked that it be converted from leasehold to fee
simple ownership. Sales have been occurring there and I believe there is one (1)
unit remains in that project for sale. We with your authorization, acquired three (3)
units, and we are under contract for the sale of the third unit right now. It has
served a need and not all of it went out as restricted sales, but it has provided
thirty-one (31) units of housing to this island's inventory.
Mr. Rapozo: But not necessarily affordable?
Mr. Mackler: Not necessarily, no.
COUNCIL MEETING 47 JUNE 12, 2013
Mr. Rapozo: Then I understand Councilmember
Yukimura's point. But those projects did not come under the Housing Ordinance?
Mr. Mackler: A separate Ordinance. It predated
Ordinance No. 860.
Mr. Rapozo: Right, so that was a totally separate process?
Mr. Mackler: Yes.
Mr. Rapozo: That is all I have. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Bynum, you have the floor.
Mr. Bynum: It is not just about the Ordinance, right? It
is about policies, too?
Mr. Mackler: You will have to tell us. I am not sure.
Mr. Bynum: I can read the Resolution and I think the
examples that JoAnn gave are good ones in terms of our initial sense of what would
happen at those properties, but did not happen for various reasons like changing
economies. It is also looking at the policies like the one you mentioned; the fee
simple versus leasehold. I am a bit surprised to hear Kamuela's answer that he
would not want a Housing Staff person on this Committee. I beg you to reconsider
that. We are going to put together a stellar group of individuals to focus on
affordable housing and not have a member of the Housing Agency present to just
observe? I do not understand that answer. Maybe you could explain it to me. The
Committee meets eight (8) or ten (10) times for three (3) to four (4) hours and your
Staff time is more valuable internal than meeting with this group of players in our
community around housing? I do not understand that answer.
Mr. Mackler: Well, Councilmember, the impetuous for
introducing a bill for this ordinance initially was for this County to have a
standardized or consistent application of affordable housing for Workforce Housing
Requirements to produce or to have the private sector help produce that housing,
and also to be able to let them know what the requirements would be if they were to
undertake a residential or resort development that would be applicable to the
Ordinance. Previously, there had been a number of ordinances passed for
development and I would say with uneven results. The thinking at the time was to
get something on the books to have a consistent way to approach the requirements
for workforce housing. As we have indicated in our response, we do not think we
have had enough time yet in a normal housing market to really assess the
effectiveness of this Ordinance, of whether it is going to do the job that it was
contemplated or not.
Mr. Bynum: Two (2) things. One (1) is that I did not hear
an answer to my question and the second is that I was here when that Ordinance
passed. I debated it to the extent that debate was allowed and there are flaws in
that Bill. It is incomplete and I intend to introduce legislation prior to the
completion of this because we are going to miss the boat. As Kamuela said, there
will be new resort development in the coming years. Our Ordinance does not
address what contribution resort development will make to affordable housing in
COUNCIL MEETING 48 JUNE 12, 2013
any way. That is a fundamental problem. Two (2) things: one (1) is that I
understand that answer in terms of core exactions at fifteen percent (15%) with the
incentives and disincentives that, that has not been tested in the real world but
there are other aspects of that Ordinance that do need to be addressed in my
opinion, quite strongly. My core question is, if the Council puts this Committee
together and we call these citizens to engage in volunteer work to focus on this key
important issue, the Housing Agency is unwilling to be a participant or even an
observer. That is what I am hearing.
Mr. Mackler: I do not think that is what we are saying.
Mr. Bynum: That is what I heard, "Our staff time can be
used better with meeting with this...
Mr. Cobb-Adams: Let me clarify this, okay? Respectfully,
Mr. Bynum, we have a whole ton of agendas. We have an initiative that is going
forward right now for putting together the 201H process, which I think will get... to
get affordable housing, there are two (2) methods, right? You can pass the buck and
say, "If you want to develop, you guys will take all of these costs and develop
affordable housing." Then they are going to lose money on their affordable housing
and they are going to have to raise their profit in some other way. They have to
make money, right? There is also a way of cutting costs to affordable housing, given
certain type of exemptions. Right now, we are working on the 201H process that is
a top priority of our office that will be presented to you folks, so we are putting our
staff—we have certain tasks that we have in our strategic plan and we are staying
focused on the tasks. That 201H process is a State process, but we need the County
Admin rules and it involves working with the different agencies and coordinating
with these agencies. What that will do is intended on saving time and money for
Habitats. This Resolution does not the Habitat for Humanity. They are the only
ones who are developing right now. How can we help these guys move forward
together with the County? 201H involves you folks on the County Council. We are
focusing on that. Ordinance No. 860, like I said, we feel it has not even been vetted
or tested. Your comment about the resort; there is a resort and you said there is
nothing that addresses the resort. There is a resort... I guess, section. It is rather
subjective. I can agree with that, but there is something that addresses resort
development.
Mr. Bynum: It says the resort has to do a study about
their impact on housing, but it has no exactions identified, correct?
Mr. Cobb-Adams: The Housing Agency determines the
exactions through an agreement.
Mr. Bynum: That has got serious legal problems.
Mr. Cobb-Adams: Well, we will have to talk to our attorneys.
Chair Furfaro: I have allowed you time to respond...
Mr. Bynum: I am sorry. May I just finish?
Chair Furfaro: Yes, I am going to give it to you, but let me
say what I was going to say. You responded to a question. Okay. Now Mr. Bynum
COUNCIL MEETING 49 JUNE 12, 2013
has the floor. If you want to pose a new question, pose a new question. He
interceded to give you some background.
Mr. Bynum: I still have not, with all due respect, heard
an answer. If the Council establishes this Committee and we call these citizens in
to volunteer, will the Housing Agency have a representative at those meetings?
Mr. Cobb-Adams: We have given a written response to
Ms. Yukimura and our response is at this time is that we not believe it is
appropriate to be amending the Ordinance. Therefore, we will participate not by
directly being on the Committee as ex-officios, but we are going to be participating
by reviewing the recommendations and providing comments, as well as
participating and giving feedback to the entire Council. That is the level of
participation.
Mr. Bynum: We have grandfathered in four thousand
(4,000) resort units. Let us say we do not address this Ordinance and resorts start
developing rapidly, which is a possibility; how will the impacts on affordable
housing be addressed through that Ordinance? There are no exactions identified.
You do not think there will be a legal challenge that you as Director say, "Based on
this input, here is your exaction," and that it came from an Administrative
Department Head that that is not going to be challenged when there is no identified
objective criteria with any rational nexus. What is going to happen? If there are a
thousand hotel rooms developed in the next ten (10) years and we do not address it,
how will those hotels impacts on affordable housing?
Mr. Cobb-Adams: I think you are asking some theoretical
questions that I cannot answer.
Mr. Bynum: I am just dismayed that the response from
the agency would be that "our Staff time is better spent somewhere else other than
meeting with twenty (20) citizens who care about Kaua`i and want to focus on this
issue." I am dismayed by that answer.
Chair Furfaro: Well, that is his answer right now. JoAnn.
Ms. Yukimura: At the Courtyards at Waipouli, there are
eighty-two (82) units? How many units are there?
Mr. Mackler: There are a total of eighty-two (82) units.
Ms. Yukimura: Twenty-four (24) at...
Mr. Mackler: Thirty-one (31) units at Kamamalu.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. The intention was that there would
be in exchange for eight hundred (800) resort units...
Chair Furfaro: Let us not go back— the item on the agenda
is the Resolution.
Ms. Yukimura: Chair, this is...
COUNCIL MEETING 50 JUNE 12, 2013
Chair Furfaro: I am sorry, you can make your point about
the past history as a Committee member, but the agenda item right now is about
passing a Resolution.
Ms. Yukimura: I am trying to show the inadequacy of the
present law.
Chair Furfaro: Let me show more to you then. The fact of
the matter is that Kaua`i Lagoons were one thousand five hundred (1,500) units, not
eight hundred (800).
Ms. Yukimura: I think there is a cap...
Chair Furfaro: I am sorry—then we capped it here.
Ms. Yukimura: Right.
Chair Furfaro: We capped it here at seven hundred fifty
(750), not eight hundred (800).
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Keep the facts straight.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you. My main point is that we will
have seven hundred fifty (750) hotel rooms ultimately built in that area in Lihu`e,
with all kinds of impacts to land values, housing, and so forth. We were to have one
hundred thirteen (113) affordable units. At the end of ten (10) years, the eighty-two
(82) units at Waipouli... they are totally market. They can be vacation rentals.
They can be resorts. Where is the housing that was supposed to offset the seven
hundred fifty (750) units? In our present Ordinance, and I want to say that
Mr. Rainforth, who was one of the authors of the present Ordinance, has
acknowledged that we need to make some changes to it to make it more effective.
We do not want to come to the position where the market is taking off and we have
an inadequate Ordinance or one that is not giving us the very best possible in terms
of Affordable Housing Requirements or exactions. That is why I am instituting this
process. Kamuela, I believe you said that you would like to go on the housing tour
because it would be very educational for you to see the various affordable housing—
I remember that distinctly in one of our meetings. You are invited whether or not
you are part of the Committee, as is any Councilmember. However you wish to
participate, I accept. I welcome as much participation as you are willing to give. I
also think that we need to work on creating a better Ordinance because one of my
goals is permanent affordability. That is not yet assured under the existing
Ordinance.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Today was the first
time you saw the Resolution? Aside from an invitation from Councilmember
Yukimura, that was the extent of your discussion involving this Committee?
Mr. Cobb-Adams: No, we have been meeting monthly. We
meet monthly or now it is every two (2) months or so with the Housing Chair. It
COUNCIL MEETING 51 JUNE 12, 2013
has been mentioned. We have not discussed it. We knew it was on the hotplate, or
I do not know what you want to call it...
Chair Furfaro: Radar screen.
Mr. Cobb-Adams: Radar screen—perfect. Thank you.
Mr. Rapozo: That is all I have. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Vice Chair, you have the floor.
Ms. Nakamura: You said that you are starting to hear from
developers that maybe the market is picking up and they are looking at— are you
having any push backs or concerns about the current Ordinance and how provisions
have to be met? Are people raising concerns about the current Affordable Housing
Policy?
Mr. Cobb-Adams: I cannot remember concerns. They are more
interested in how do we accomplish it. When they come to us, they have questions
to ask. "How do we meet this Ordinance?"
Ms. Nakamura: Yes, I share the concern about the need for
permanent affordability; long term affordability, not housing that is going to be
affordable today but ten (10) years from now, it becomes market. Do you feel there
are things that can be done to the current Ordinance that would address that issue?
Or do you feel that the Ordinance accomplishes this?
Mr. Cobb-Adams: That is an interesting point. That is
something that we work very closely with Ms. Yukimura on. That is something
that—I do not think it is written in there of what we are doing, so it is something
that if it is put into the Ordinance, it could help. One thing that I want to bring up
is that being on both sides of the fence, meaning public and private, is that you
want to create an Ordinance that allows enough framework, yet enough flexibility,
for the different times. Things fluctuate. We talked about a failure of a project— it
is hard. There is an ideal project and then there is an ideal project for that time
and date. You will never get a perfect Ordinance, I believe, for all time. With that
in mind, like I said, you could change it in a year and want to change it the next
year. I think that is why I really believe that as it may not be perfect for the last
four (4) or five (5) years, I think there is enough room and flexibility in it, yet
enough structure, that it can work. I believe it can work. I believe it is a rather
good Ordinance.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. I have a couple items real quick, and
then I will take some public testimony. First of all, I am going to be supporting this
Resolution because one of the things that I think is important is that we have an
understanding of a housing extraction for a developer versus workforce...their new
workforce if they are creating jobs in the project and so forth. There are people that
come through management and people who move on and so forth, but while they are
here, they clearly need to have a workforce development component. And then of
course, the Housing Ordinance, and it is dealing with the fact like there is some
permanent or long lease and so forth, for people who intend to make Kaua`i their
home, whether they work in the project or not. There needs to be some clarification
COUNCIL MEETING 52 JUNE 12, 2013
there and I hope the Committee could do that. I would also say that there are a
couple comments that I want to make. The intent of saying that this Ordinance—
this Resolution will lead to some Ordinance changes... I think is real. That is why
we are having this ad hoc Committee here and obviously, I would be very
concerned, too, if we got this Committee going on and then Councilmembers start
introducing ordinances to change something before we finish the Committee. To
me, the value of the Committee is to really look at these things and have the study
and time to discuss it. I do want to say that those are my concerns followed by the
big one, is if the offer is on the table for your Department to have an ex-officio,
nonvoting seat on this Committee, I think you should take it whether it is you
coming, Gary coming, or somebody coming to represent...nobody made a bad
decision because they had too much information. This is my comment to you folks—
take the seat. It does not have to specifically you, but once the Resolution is passed,
you cannot go back and create a seat. Please consider my comments. Also, we do
know, we have a growth Charter Amendment about the percentage of growth. It
was for the exact reason that we had housing declared areas for resort zoning and
so forth back in the 70's and 80s', but we do have that component, that we need to
make sure that there is some kind of extraction, although I think we are going to
control the size of future growth. Please consider that. Before we go any further, I
have to ask for public testimony. Thank you. Is there anyone in the audience that
would like to give testimony on this Resolution? Are you coming up? Yes, come up.
KEN TAYLOR: Chair, members of Council, my name is Ken
Taylor. I have not seen this Resolution and I am not sure what the scope of the
work is, but if it is to look at making recommendations for long range affordable
housing and other issues that will bring affordable housing online, I would certainly
be supportive of moving forward with an advisory committee. As you recall in
recent meetings when talking about the Rice Camp, I suggested that we were
missing an opportunity to increase the density of that project within the core of
Lihu`e. The reason that was given for not having more density was a water issue
and that, to me, is a real problem because if you take that site and develop it or
design it for more density and build what you can today leaving the rest of the site
available for additional units as water is available, then that makes sense. If these
are the kinds of issues that are going to be looked at with this Committee, then I
think it is good. The other thing that I have seen recently in talking with some
individuals... one that lives in Lihu`e Court down here, a single person living in a
one-bedroom unit, they would like to move out into an older individual unit, they
would like to move out into an individual unit, but an older unit happens to be two-
bedrooms, but the size of what they have at Lihu`e Court is larger in square footage
than the so-called two-bedroom unit outside so they do not qualify for a two-
bedroom unit that is actually smaller in-square-footage than what they are in
currently. Those kind of issues need to be addressed and talked about because that
is ridiculous. You could say it is a three-bedroom unit, but if a three-bedroom unit
is smaller in total-square-footage than a one-bedroom, what is the problem?
Anyway, there are a lot of issues and the Rice Camp thing really troubles me
because that is a golden opportunity...
Chair Furfaro: Ken that is your first three (3) minutes.
Mr. Taylor: ...to move forward a project that has density
in a proper place. In compared to what we are looking at in `Ele`ele, that is
absolutely the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen because there are no basic jobs
there in `Ele`ele for— I forget how many units are out there, but those folks will be
forced for the most part to drive to job locations. That site does not make any sense
COUNCIL MEETING 53 JUNE 12, 2013
at all. We cannot continue this kind of sprawl activity and expect to ever resolve
any of our problems. If these kinds of issues are going to be talked about in this
Advisory Committee, then I think it is a good idea, and I would like to see it move
forward. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Ken, so you understand, this is a Resolution
for a Committee. The Committee discusses issues that could lead to improvements
in an Ordinance that would have to be (inaudible), so you have got that right.
Thank you. Anybody else?
Mr. Sykos: Thank you, Council Chair and
Councilmembers. For the record, Lonnie Sykos. I am here to support establishing
this Advisory Committee. The specific issue that leads me to support this, even
though I have not read the Resolution, is being from Maui and I have been quite
vocal about saying things like, "We do not want to be like Maui or we do want to be
like Maui." In this issue, we both do and do not want to be like Maui. When Maui
left the point that Kaua`i is at today. When I moved to Maui, there were roughly
seventy thousand (70,000) people. The development exploded and one of the
outcomes of the explosion of development was all of the loopholes that were within
our codes got taken advantage of. Of the popularity of Mayor Lingle on Maui, her
5th year in office, she began a study about housing. As she was leaving her last
term in office, they released the audit that they had done and there were hundreds
of housing units that had not been built and possibly thousands of units that had
not been built for low income and affordable housing associated with all of the
developments. The end of this conversation is that once the developers LLC ceases
to exist legally, there is zero recourse. On Maui, everybody's name was in the
newspaper; the owners of the LLCs because it is public. Many of these people had
done this multiple times through different LLCs and basically thousands of units
got developed, with no affordable housing built, no low-income housing build, and
in some occasions not even worker housing built. In Maui County's language,
worker housing, low-income housing, and affordable housing are three (3)
completely separate issues even though they are intertwined at times. My being
here today is to encourage the Council and my thanks to members Yukimura and
Bynum for paying attention to the fact that the details that we do not cover before
the development occurs, we are never going to prevent the harm that comes to us
and will never recover the harm because of the way the legal system works. I am
fully supportive of doing as much as possible to try to predict what the outcome of
the development that is going to occur will be and including it in the housing.
Thank you very much for your time.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. On that note, I will call the
meeting back to order here. JoAnn, do I understand that you have an Amendment
there?
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Ms. Yukimura moved to amend Resolution No. 2013-57, as circulated, as
shown in the Floor Amendment which is attached hereto as Attachment 1,
seconded by Mr. Bynum.
Ms. Yukimura: The amendment that I have offered which
has been seconded, designates Councilmember Bynum as the second
Councilmember on the Committee. I have canvassed my Housing & Transportation
COUNCIL MEETING 54 JUNE 12, 2013
Committee members, to see who was interested, and this is the outcome. We are
restricted— I believe, our Council Rules provide for two (2) Councilmembers to be
on an Advisory Committee and there is also the Sunshine Law issue, so we are
limited to two; however, the Advisory Committee recommendations will come to the
full Housing & Transportation Committee for work on the Ordinance. So unless
there are questions...
Chair Furfaro: JoAnn, may I ask you a question? This
Resolution for this Advisory Committee is for a period of two (2) years? When does
it– like mission impossible, kind of self-destruct; when does that happen?
Ms. Yukimura: Report to the Council no later than
May 30, 2014, so next year by May. Hopefully, we will be done before that.
Chair Furfaro: I just wanted to ask that question on the
date so that we all understood it to be a termination date as well.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: I have a question for Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum, you mentioned that you were going to be introducing legislation before
this Committee is complete?
Mr. Bynum: Thank you for asking that question. Is there
more to the question?
Mr. Rapozo: No. Is that your intent?
Mr. Bynum: On one (1) specific area of the Bill. I will talk
about it now...
Mr. Rapozo: I do not want to talk about— I guess my
concern is that this Committee is supposed to be a Committee that is going to take
in the input from this body, developers, landowners, providers, and so forth and not
an opportunity for individual Councilmembers to move their agenda. That is my
concern. I think if Mr. Bynum has— I guess the bottom line is that I will not
support any legislative changes until we get the results from the Committee.
Mr. Bynum: Can I respond?
Mr. Rapozo: I have another question for Councilmember
Yukimura.
Chair Furfaro: Why do we not do this? Ask your second
question and they will respond.
Mr. Rapozo: Has the County Attorney's Office reviewed
the Resolution?
Ms. Yukimura: They have seen it because I asked them to be
ex-officio members as well.
COUNCIL MEETING 55 JUNE 12, 2013
Mr. Rapozo: But have they reviewed it for legality and
form?
Ms. Yukimura: No.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: I thought I just went through this?
Mr. Rapozo: She was absent that meeting, so I do not
think she got tongue lashing or the message that we got. I just wanted to raise that
issue because I remember when the issue came up through Budget, which we
supported... this Council passed the money for this...
Ms. Yukimura: They have given an official opinion on that
question.
Mr. Rapozo: Anyway, I know there were some concerns
about the legality and that is why I ask if this specific Resolution was vetted
through because what I learned last week or two (2) weeks ago or whenever it was,
was that it should. That is my question. Thank you
Chair Furfaro: You can respond to that after I recognize
Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: As is indicated today, we have tons of people
who want to develop and we all remember what happened in the first part of the
decade, where the people of Kaua`i had said, "Hey, we want this much growth and
we authorize this much," because we did not have a growth management policy
ordinance. We get "outlawyered" and "outmaneuvered" to the detriment of our
community in the long run. There are tons of examples of that. In this Housing, we
passed a bill that says to a developer of resorts, "If you are going to develop resorts,
do a study to say what your impact on affordable housing will be for the
community? What is your impact on community?" That is it. Just give us a study.
It does not say what the outcome is after that study other than the Director will
establish some kind of exaction. That is a fatal flaw and the reason I do not want to
wait for that one (1) particular issue is because we will miss the boat again like we
have done over, and over again. It is similar to impact fees, which we have not
passed. A developer can come in, develop hotel rooms and any other resort
community in the world, they would have to do an affordable housing exaction and
an impact fee but not on Kaua`i though, because we have not passed the ordinances.
We passed the— our impact fee is one thousand dollars ($1,000). It is a joke. We
missed the boat. We are going to miss the boat again if we wait to fix that
particular portion of the Ordinance, which will be in the bill that will be considered
by the entire Council. It does not negate the need for this Committee, in my
opinion. It is a very specific issue that I do not think can wait until 2014 because
we will miss the boat again. I intend to use my comments on answering a question
now to talk about how we missed the boat and why we have to... the economy is
coming back. Kauai will have this kind of resort boom again, I believe... soon.
Chair Furfaro: That is your answer, Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: That is my answer and that is why in my
mind that particular issue, in my mind, we cannot wait.
COUNCIL MEETING 56 JUNE 12, 2013
Chair Furfaro: JoAnn, you are answering Mr. Rapozo's
question.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes. When I first proposed an Affordable
Housing Committee, which was in the form of a Budget item and we passed the
Budget item; there was a question from the Administration as to the legality of an
Advisory Committee. We did get an official opinion on that and I will be happy to
share it with you as long as the Committee is focused on a legitimate function of the
Council, which is a Housing Ordinance, then we are fine in terms of that issue.
Chair Furfaro: May I ask that you research that?
Ms. Yukimura: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you.
Ms. Yukimura: I just want to say as Chair of the Housing &
Transportation Committee, which is proposing a Housing Advisory Committee, I am
okay with Councilmember Bynum introducing something even before the
Committee is complete. I can see us taking that to the Committee and getting their
input. The Council, in its wisdom, can decide to defer action on his proposal or we
can take the advice of the Housing Advisory Committee on that particular issue and
pass it if we feel it is okay. I do not see it necessarily in conflict with the Housing
Advisory Committee, and I can see us using the Housing Advisory Committee to vet
any proposal that comes up, whether it is Councilmember Bynum or anybody else
on the Council that wants to propose an amendment to the Housing Ordinance.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Now, with that being said, let me
share with you that you will get my vote if I know that every Councilmember who
has something in advance that wants to get, will air what you just said with your
committee. Okay? That seems fair and reasonable. Okay, on that note, I would
like to see if we can get to—yes, Mr. Bynum?
Mr. Bynum: We are in discussion, right?
Chair Furfaro: Yes.
Mr. Bynum: May I make some comments?
Mr. Rapozo: On the amendment.
Chair Furfaro: We have to vote on the amendment.
Mr. Bynum: I will wait then.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. We have the amendment and I will do
it with a voice vote.
The motion to approve Resolution No. 2013-57 to Draft 1 was then put,
and unanimously carried.
Chair Furfaro: The Amendment is now part of the
Resolution. Now I am going to ask for comment and then we are going to take a
COUNCIL MEETING 57 JUNE 12, 2013
vote. I would ask if we can have some brevity here because it is almost ten (10)
minutes to 2:00 p.m., Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: I will do my best. In 2000, we passed the
General Plan. The citizens asked us to manage the growth of resorts and we did not
until they had to do a citizen's initiative, and then we wrote it. By then, we had to
grandfather four thousand (4,000) in. The citizens asked us to deal with vacation
rental regulation and we did not do it for eight (8) years while vacation rentals
proliferated. The citizens asked us to end the practice of ag subdivisions for de facto
residential and we still have not passed the law. Fourteen (14) years or thirteen
(13) years later, we do not have impact fees for new resort development in place.
This Council funded the study years ago, and I hear it is just going out to bid. We
have to have that study before we can put exactions in. These exactions are not
unique to Hawai`i; this is where it happens everywhere. Without affordable housing
exactions in the past, we would not have housing stock here. Almost all of`Ele`ele
was built as affordable housing. Almost all of Puhi was built as affordable housing.
Right? Almost of Hanapepe Heights was built as affordable housing. In this
economy, we will not have workforce housing if we do not really be intense as our
Housing Agency has been for years. On the political side, we have not given them
the tools. We have not finished and accomplished the task that we need to steward
this island effectively as a small town and a big world class resort at the same time.
We have got to quit being outmaneuvered and outweighed so for some of these
initiatives, we do not have time to wait. We thought we had time because the
economy turned and economic activity slowed, but that has been four (4) years now.
Economic activity is coming back and we did not accomplish those tasks. That is
why I think this is a very important Committee. That is why at least for that one
(1) issue, I do not think we can wait a year because we will miss the boat, and the
future of the island really hangs at stake in terms of what kind of life experience
will be for the middle-class working people who live here; not just what the
experience is for the visitor, but for the people who live and work here every day.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you, Mr. Chair. First of all, I want to
say to Kamuela that I did not take your comments as was described, in fact. I was
invited to submit my name for this Committee as well, and as much as I am
interested in affordable housing for this island, the time requirements that were put
on by JoAnn was much more than I can handle because I am a busy guy, too, just
like you and your Staff. The fact that I did not submit my name or the fact I cannot
commit to that because of other projects I have going does not mean that I am not
interested or that other things are more important. I just want to make sure you
understand that I did not take your comments in any way negative and that you are
not interested simply because you guys have a whole lot of stuff going on at Housing
and your Staff is tasked, in my opinion, to the max. Just knowing Councilmember
Yukimura, it is going to be an intense— and I hope you take this as a compliment,
Councilmember Yukimura, that it is going to be an intense Committee... well, it is
intended that way anyway.
Ms. Yukimura: We are going to work hard.
Mr. Rapozo: I understand. I got her message and I said,
"I just personally cannot commit." If I cannot commit to where I am going to be a
value, then I am not going to commit because obviously I do not have that kind of
time. I just wanted to make sure that you understand. The other thing is that I am
COUNCIL MEETING 58 JUNE 12, 2013
not sure if this is a time sensitive matter, but it concerns me that it has not gone
through the County Attorney's Office. I think we were made aware of the
importance of that at a previous meeting. The question of the authority of the
Council is not in question; it is the legality and form of the Resolution, which is
what I believe should occur. I am hesitant to support it, although I do support the
Resolution itself because it is the mechanism that will move what this Council or
prior Council, I guess, approved in a prior Budget. My concern is that "is it legal?"
Same concerns were raised of a Resolution that I introduced a while back. That is
my concern. I do not know and I guess we will see where the balls fall, but I am
concerned about approving the Resolution after hearing from the Chair at the last
meeting that it has not been vetted through the County Attorney's Office. At this
time, I probably will not be supporting this Resolution until it gets run through.
Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Other members? Al, can I ask you to come
up for a moment?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
ALFRED B. CASTILLO, JR., County Attorney: Good afternoon, Council
Chair and Councilmembers. Al Castillo, County Attorney.
Chair Furfaro: Al, I am going to have this time to review
what was reviewed a while back. This Resolution passes today— I want to ask you
if you can, in fact, assure me that you will revisit this and immediately raise any
red flags on the Resolution, if necessary? I am talking immediately by the end of
business tomorrow.
Mr. Castillo: I can certainly do it during my lunch.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you.
Mr. Castillo: Thank you.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Ms. Nakamura: Chair, I have an Amendment that Staff is
working on.
Chair Furfaro: Why do we not do this...
Ms. Nakamura: I would like to just say that this issue of
County Attorney— I think we made it very clear at our last meeting that that is a
standard that we want to follow.
Chair Furfaro: It is obviously my standard as the Chair.
Ms. Nakamura: It is a good one and I wanted to say that I
support that standard.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. I have an opportunity to have Al look
at this during the lunch hour. We have another Amendment to come so I want to
break for lunch. I am going to call Al back up when we get back from lunch. If you
COUNCIL MEETING 59 JUNE 12, 2013
could revisit the previous piece, I would appreciate it. It is five (5) to 1:00 p.m. I
would like to say that we will be back in session at 2:05 p.m. We are going to hear
from the County Attorney, and then we will take action on this Resolution.
Subsequently, we are going to revisit with Mr. Hooser's departure, which is today at
4:00 p.m., Gary?
Mr. Hooser: Yes. Chair, this is a Koke`e Advisory
meeting, which I represent the Council on that meeting. It is apparently a very
important meeting that they want me to attend. I know we have important issues
here also, so I will do what needs to be done. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: I want to personally thank you for taking my
place on the Koke`e Advisory Committee. We are going to break for lunch, and then
we will follow-up on your Resolution after lunch.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 12:55 p.m.
The meeting reconvened at 2:00 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: We are back from our lunch. I think the way
we left it, we had a potential Floor Amendment being introduced by Council Vice
Chair Nakamura. Let me give you the floor.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you, Chair. There are two (2) changes
that I wanted to propose. The first one is on the third "whereas," which is to just
take out the language "and needs to be updated to be more effective." It is a blanket
statement but I think what we heard from the Housing Agency was that it really
has not been tested or there are issues that they are not aware of issues that
question the effectiveness of the Policy. I just wanted to take it out and add the
language next paragraph that says, "whereas there are concerns that the current
Housing Policy does not adequately address the need for permanent affordable
housing and lacks clear affordable housing provisions for resort development."
Those are two (2) very specific issues that we discussed around this table and I
think we need to articulate that and make sure those two (2) issues specifically get
addressed in this process.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Is there any further discussion on the
Amendment?
Ms. Nakamura moved to amend Resolution No. 2013-57, Draft 1 as
circulated, as shown in the Floor Amendment which is attached hereto as
Attachment 2, seconded by Mr. Kagawa.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Further discussion?
Councilmember Yukimura?
Ms. Yukimura: Yes, I thank Council Vice Chair for her
amendments. I do not agree that the deletion is necessary but the additions make it
clear that the Ordinance needs to be updated, so I am fine. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Further discussion? If not, I am just
going to ask for a voice vote on the Amendment.
COUNCIL MEETING 60 JUNE 12, 2013
The motion to approve Resolution No. 2013-57, Draft 1, as amended, was
then put, and unanimously carried.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much. Now we will go to the
Resolution and I will call up the County Attorney, if I can. Hi, Al. Thank you for
spending your lunch hour on looking at the Resolution itself. I will give you the
floor.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Mr. Castillo: Thank you, Council Chair and
Councilmembers. Good afternoon, Al Castillo, County Attorney. Now it is good to
multitask. First of all, I would like to say that yes, I acknowledge the fact that
Councilmember Yukimura did ask for legal guidance many moons ago. The
Resolution is consistent with the legal guidance that we provided and it is in full
compliance with your Council Rules. Therefore, the Resolution is legal.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Thus, the recirculation of the
June 18, 2012 comments from your Deputy County Attorney.
Mr. Castillo: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Bynum, you have the floor and
Mr. Kagawa will be next.
Mr. Bynum: Thank you for doing that during lunch, Al. I
wanted to see if you agree that not every Resolution is as simple and
straightforward as this. I do not expect this sets a precedent, that you will always
review things in an hour. A Resolution, like the other one on today, is more
complicated. I want to know if you agree with those statements.
Mr. Castillo: Yes, I do agree that resolutions have its
challenges at times. The reason why I was able to review this again is because I
was fully aware of the Budget ordinances and the legal opinions that we have
written on this subject matter.
Mr. Bynum: Right. Thank you.
Mr. Castillo: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Forgive me, but this was not intended
as a sixty (60) minute review. I think the compliance was originally to the
Chairman's request that anything out of a legal matter dealing with
polices/ordinances get your review in advance of being on the agenda. Mr. Kagawa,
you have the floor.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Al, you reviewed it
for consistency. Is it normal that we have such a large group of members on a
committee like this? I noticed there are twenty-one (21) members, and I just think
about this body here with seven (7) members, how difficult it is sometimes to get a
consensus or to answer all the due diligence, but with twenty-one (21) members—
wow, that would seem to me to be quite inconsistent.
COUNCIL MEETING 61 JUNE 12, 2013
Mr. Castillo: Councilmember Kagawa, I can appreciate
your concern. I did anticipate such a question. There are two (2) ways of looking at
it. One (1) is that it will be vetted to the fullest extent and you do have notable
people on this. Whether or not they can come to an agreement is another subject.
Thank you. I do not know about "normal" because it all depends on the will of the
Council.
Mr. Kagawa: I guess for me, when we review things to
keep it consistent, I would think that the numbers of a body that is going to provide,
I guess advisory or advice, is limited in number for a reason which is to be able to
have ample time and what have you in order to come up with a decision.
Mr. Castillo: Yes, I agree with what you are saying
because this is a large amount of people.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Mr. Hooser.
Mr. Hooser: Just a follow-up question, if I could? Is it
Robert's Rules or what in terms of how the committee makes a decision? Is it in
quorum and ratifying a decision and that kind of thing? Can you comment on that?
Mr. Castillo: Yes, I would say Robert's Rules because you
do not have any particular rule within your Council Rules regarding an Advisory
Committee on what they are to report to you. Robert's Rules would always be the
default.
Mr. Hooser: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. I will go to Councilmember
Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: Just as someone who has been thinking
about this, there is no problem with Robert's Rules governing procedure in terms of
recommendations from the group. They can try to come to a consensus. If they do
not, there can be a majority opinion and a minority opinion, or dissenting opinions.
I have also been thinking about a survey which just sort of surveys everybody with
different questions and tabulates the answers. This would just be basic information
for the Council because they are not making the decisions about the Ordinance.
That is a power really by Charter that is for the committee first, and then the
Council body as a whole.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Any more questions for Al? If
not, Al, thank you very much.
Mr. Castillo: You are welcome.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: We have the review by the County Attorney,
comments on a couple other procedural questions. Is there any discussion?
COUNCIL MEETING 62 JUNE 12, 2013
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I understand
Kamuela's concern about not having ample time to see if the current Ordinance is
effective enough; however, I believe that there are, from hearing members on the
Council, legitimate concerns about future development. I guess it forces me to want
to support this Resolution, even though the Housing Agency seems to not think it is
necessary at this time. I do have a concern that whether this body or this Advisory
Committee will be exercising their rights beyond that scope. I think we have a lot of
developments planned in the future, such as the `Ele`ele subdivision affordable
housing plan that is coming up. We have been briefed by Kamuela and it is my
hope it is an area that would not be vetted by the group because it would seem that
if that was the scope, you would list that as a scope of this Resolution here and I do
not see that particular item listed. If the Committee focuses on what we heard
today and what we see here on paper, I will be in full support of this Resolution.
Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Any further discussion? Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would tend to agree
with Mr. Kagawa's assessment. What I do not want is to see this committee
utilized as a vehicle to pursue certain opinions of our Councilmembers. It needs to
be an objective committee and needs to be able to take a look at everything. I, for
one, approve and agree with the development in `Ele`ele. I know many people do
not. As I have seen that project from inception to today, I think it is a great project.
I think it is in line with Smart Growth principles but what I do not want to see is
this body start to stray away from the objective discussions and objective
recommendations of what is best for this island. I hope you do not take this in the
wrong way, Councilmembers Yukimura and Bynum, but I understand all of us here
have very strong opinions on certain items. I just want to make sure that the
purpose, the intent, and scope of the Resolution and this Committee is honored and
that, in fact, at the end of the day, we will get a product that we can utilize it to
objectively improve our Housing Ordinance. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Bynum, did you want to speak?
Mr. Bynum: I spoke with Gary Mackler at lunchtime just
because I was confused about a few things. He made it clear that the Housing
Agency is not opposed to this Resolution and they do expect to be participants in the
dialogue and discussion. I appreciate the work that JoAnn has done to put this
Committee together. I am tempted to read the names because it is pretty
impressive, but I will not. I am in support of the Resolution.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to say in
response to Councilmembers Kagawa and Rapozo that any amendments will be
prospective. This Ordinance will apply to future developments, not existing housing
projects per se. I hope that the part of the Ordinance will come up some guidelines
that incorporates Smart Growth polices and thinking. That will be ultimately the
decision of the County Council. They may be proposed... I do not even know if they
will be. In terms of the recommendations of the Committee, I have no
predetermined conclusions about where we will be. It will be a joint exploration,
education, and then sharing of ideas about how we can develop the best Housing
Policy for this County.
COUNCIL MEETING 63 JUNE 12, 2013
Chair Furfaro: Any further discussions? I would just ask
again, that that the Housing authority— I spoke to Gary and Kamuela at the
bottom of the steps, and I just want to make sure that whether they are in the
Resolution or not, that they will be given access to contribute and certainly have an
opportunity to raise a red flag on items that they have concerns. I did my best to
encourage them to be an ex-officio, but as long as they are in participation, that is
the main thing.
Ms. Nakamura: I just wanted to say that I think some of the
things that Kamuela is trying to do with the Department, this 201H Rules, is
critical to making affordable housing happen and happen expeditiously. The Rice
Camp and other housing projects that they have online— I think we want to pursue
and we want them to be able to have the resources to focus and get it done. I hope
that the focus of the committee does not get too spread out and it is focused on this
policy and not too broad so it does not consume all the resources of the Housing
Agency.
Chair Furfaro: Okay, since I yielded my time for the Vice
Chair, I would like to continue with what I was saying. Also, I want to make very
certain that the question I asked for— this committee dissolves in May of 2014 or
soon before that date. But this does not go on for infinity.
Ms. Yukimura: Chair, it does not necessarily dissolve but it
has to make a report no later than May 30th. The Housing & Transportation
Committee or Council may want to interact with the committee and may want to
ask questions and so forth, but their focus will be no longer on giving
recommendations on an update.
Chair Furfaro: I hope you understand my point, JoAnn. I do
not want to be in the same committee six (6) years from...
Ms. Yukimura: Absolutely, Chair.
Chair Furfaro: You will not be on the Council chairing the
thing because you will have a term limit. There is a limit on the workshop. That is
fair to say.
Ms. Yukimura: I do not disagree.
Chair Furfaro: We have set a deadline. We expect
constructive work and report to the Council, no later as Mr. Bynum pointed out,
than May of 2014.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes.
Ms. Nakamura: This is just a change that I would like to
make to the Floor Amendment to replace the second one that you received with the
first one, only because the original one that was circulated did not include the
second page of the Resolution. Can that just be done?
Chair Furfaro: I will make a note of that to the Clerk. It is
not our process to vote on an item with all pieces not there, but this is just a
housekeeping item. Go ahead, JoAnn.
COUNCIL MEETING 64 JUNE 12, 2013
Ms. Yukimura: Chair, just as a point of clarification, the
amendments were contained on the first page... all the amendments that were
being proposed, so when we voted, we were fully aware of all of the amendments.
Chair Furfaro: I was not trying to sneak anything in.
Ms. Yukimura: I just wanted to point that out for the record.
Chair Furfaro: Okay.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you. May I say something?
Chair Furfaro: Yes, go right ahead.
Ms. Yukimura: I agree that the Housing Agency is doing
excellent work and I have been happy to support that. I do agree that the 201H
process is very, very important and can yield some good results, but I do not think it
is sufficient. I think this update is very important, too. If you take the 201H
process to the extreme— I had the experience of doing that with cliff side,
Hanapepe. When I was Mayor, you could eliminate the requirement for parks. You
could eliminate the requirement for sidewalks and lower the costs, but then what
kind of neighborhood will you have? It is a balancing act and it does not address all
of the things that we need to address. I think we need both, and I hope we can work
together in that. As Chair and as I said before, however much the Housing
Department is willing to participate in whatever form, I will welcome that.
Chair Furfaro: Further comments? Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: Yes, I just wanted to assure you that I
understand this committee is to get input from this committee, not to further some
agenda I might personally have. I understand the intent of this is to get input from
these committee members. I just wanted to give people assurances my involvement.
I made a commitment to do it because I think it is really important, but I know it is
going to be a lot of work because JoAnn is a taskmaster when she does this kind of
stuff, but that is good. People are walking into this with eyes wide open because
they all know JoAnn. They know that this is going to be a serious working
committee. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: On that note, we have an amended
Resolution that we have already approved. Now we would like to go to the
Resolution itself, as amended. May I have a roll call vote?
The motion to adopt Resolution No. 2013-57, Draft 1, was then put, and
carried by the following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Bynum, Hooser, Kagawa, Nakamura,
Rapozo, Yukimura, Furfaro TOTAL – 7,
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL– 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL – 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL – 0.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. I am going to ask for a five (5)
minute recess because I need to talk to the County Attorney on a pending matter on
Executive Sessions. We are running into some time restraints from outside
COUNCIL MEETING 65 JUNE 12, 2013
Counsel. Jodi, on this five (5) minute recess, could you speak individually to the
members about the critical time element for that ES session, I would appreciate it.
One at a time, please. We are on a five (5) minute recess.
There being no objections, the meeting was recessed at 2:20 p.m.
The meeting reconvened at 2:28 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: Members, before we go any further, thank
you for the break. I would like to ask if I could see about... based on legal
availability by Mr. Ball, I would like to see if I can get ES-642 and ES-643 deferred.
There being no objections, ES-642 and ES-643 were taken out of the order.
EXECUTIVE SESSIONS:
ES-642 Pursuant to Hawai`i Revised Statutes (HRS) Sections 92-4 and
92-5(a)(4) and (8), and Kaua`i County Charter Section 3.07(E), the purpose of this
Executive Session is to provide the Council with a briefing in Ricky L. Ball vs.
Kaua`i Lagoons Resort Company, Ltd., et al., Civil No. 12-1-0289 JKW (Fifth Circuit
Court), and related matters. This briefing and consultation involves consideration
of the powers, duties, privileges, immunities and/or liabilities of the Council and the
County as they relate to this agenda item.
ES-643 Pursuant to Hawai`i Revised Statutes (HRS) Sections 92-4 and
92-5(a)(4) and (8), and Kaua`i County Charter Section 3.07(E), the purpose of this
Executive Session is to provide the Council with a briefing in Jeffery Sampoang vs.
Harvey Brothers, LLC, et al., Civil No. 12-1-0294 JKW (Fifth Circuit Court), and
related matters. This briefing and consultation involves consideration of the
powers, duties, privileges, immunities and/or liabilities of the Council and the
County as they relate to this agenda item.
Mr. Bynum moved to defer ES-642 and ES-643, seconded by Mr. Rapozo, and
unanimously carried.
There being no objections, Resolution No. 2013-55 was taken out of the order.
RESOLUTION:
Resolution No. 2013-55 — RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING A COUNCIL
INVESTIGATING COMMITTEE TO INVESTIGATE THE MANAGEMENT AND
IMPLEMENTATION OF THE TRANSIENT VACATION RENTAL AND
FLOOD/BUILDING PERMIT ORDINANCES WITHIN THE COUNTY OF KAUAI:
Mr. Rapozo moved for adoption of Resolution No. 2013-55, seconded by Mr. Hooser.
Mr. Rapozo moved to amend Resolution No. 2013-55, as circulated, as shown
in the Floor Amendment which is attached hereto as Attachment 3,
seconded by Mr. Hooser.
Mr. Rapozo: Can I have some time just to explain the
Amendment?
Chair Furfaro: The floor recognizes you Councilmember.
COUNCIL MEETING 66 JUNE 12, 2013
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you very much. Mr. Chair, I also
have a PowerPoint presentation of five (5) slides that will take about a minute and
a half, if I may?
Chair Furfaro: You can continue and go into your slide
presentation.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you. After the discussion of the last
few meetings, we recognized some of the concerns from members and introducing
this Amendment... what it does, if you go through the Amendment with me, at the
top, it takes out the first "whereas" where it referenced the Kaua`i Eclectic Blog.
That was removed. Going into number two (2), and it just clarifies the duties of the
two (2) Committee members and the third Committee member will be selected by
the Council. We also added the provision on the recommendation from the County
Attorney's Office that we clarified that—I will just read it. "For the purpose of this
Resolution only to the extent that the provisions relating to the composition of the
Investigating Committee on Resolution No. 2005-25, Draft 1 are inconsistent with
this Resolution, but the provisions in the latter shall govern," in other words, this
Resolution shall govern. Mr. Chair, in reference to your concern about Resolution
No. 2005-25, so that was clarified. Also, there was some concern about the
specificity of the tax map keys (TMK) on the Resolution and it was suggested and
agreed we would remove the tax map keys in the Resolution; however, we would put
those but put those TMKs into the scope. The scope would be specific, as you had
requested, Mr. Chair. Also, to remove that section that had concerned a few
members regarding the broadness of the investigation and added in "conduct
investigations and make findings regarding the operations and/or functions of the
Kaua`i County Planning Department pertaining to the processing of applications for
the TVR certificates. This brings the Resolution in line with our Charter authority."
The same applies for number four (4). In item number three (3), it is specific to the
Planning Department and item number four (4) is specific to the Department of
Public Works because some of the alleged violations are pertaining to building and
other zoning ordinances. Section number five (5)— again, just more of
housekeeping measures. It made it clearer that it is based on the availability of
funds and not open-ended. Item "B" clarified the section on subpoenas, and again,
this was all done in coordination with the County Attorney's Office, as well as Peter
Morimoto, our Legal Analyst. Again, just housekeeping measures to make the
Resolution more concise, I guess, if you will. Can I have everyone's attention at the
screen? I want to go real briefly because there were concerns from members of
"what really was the role of the Investigating Committee?" This is just a title slide
which is the title of the Resolution, but I just want to make sure that people
understand, especially our colleagues here, what the intent of this Resolution is. I
am not going to go into detail at this time about what lead up to it. I think we have
had enough discussion on that. If there is some discussion later, I will definitely
entertain that. The first step was actually getting this Resolution on the floor so we
could get public input, which I am hoping we will get today, have the Council
discussion which we have had a lot of, take action on the Resolution, and hopefully
get this passed today to establish the Committee. Step two (2) would be
procurement portion. The Committee would develop the scope and I just want to
make sure that the Council is comfortable that the scope will be approved by the
full Council. In other words, the Committee will develop a recommended scope that
will be presented to this full body for approval and/or amendments if necessary.
Then, obviously, the Special Counsel will be retained. The Special Counsel will be
COUNCIL MEETING 67 JUNE 12, 2013
retained to conduct the investigation. Again, Special Counsel because in Hawai`i, in
order to do investigations you need to be a licensed private detective or an attorney.
In this case, because of the legality or possible legal issues that surfaced, Special
Counsel will be retained. The investigation itself will be done by the Special
Counsel. The Committee will act as a resource entity and liaison only to the
Council. The Committee will not participate in the active investigation. I think
that is important for the public to hear. There is talk out there, that, "Oh, there
this is a witch hunt. Mel and Gary are going after..." It is simply not the case.
This is an attempt by Councilmember Hooser and myself to exercise our Charter
authority to do a 3.17 investigation; however in this case, because of the delicate
nature and the complexity, the Committee itself will not participate in the active
investigation and only to be a resource entity and liaison to the Council.
Finally, the findings. The status updates will be provided to the Committee
on a regular basis and to the full Council upon request of the Council. At any time
the Council wants an update, the request is made, the Chair puts it on the agenda
in Executive Session, and the Committee can update the Council at the request of
the Chair. The final report of the investigation and findings will come to the
committee. The Committee will submit the findings and recommendations to the
full Council and the full Council will act on the findings and recommendations.
Obviously, this is an attempt to put together a special investigative committee by
utilizing the specialized services of Special Counsel and keeping this as neutral as
possible by having the Special Counsel conduct the entire investigation. Again,
utilizing the Committee as the liaison between the Committee, the investigator, and
the full Council. Why only three (3) members? The Sunshine Law allows us to
setup subcommittees or special committees with a number of members of the body
that is less than the quorum. Our full Council is seven (7) members so we can set
up a special committee, much like Councilmember Yukimura did earlier with her
Housing Committee. If we stay three (3) and below, then the Committee is allowed
to do their work without having to go through Sunshine Law, postings, and all of
these things. These types of investigations move quickly. Rather than having the
necessity to post with six (6) days notice and just prolonging this investigation,
longer than it needs to be, the special committee, much like it is done in Congress
and the State Legislature, will be able to move forward in a much more expedient
manner. That is why we opted to limit the membership to three (3) members. That
is the Amendment. I am hoping that we can get support and I understand there are
concerns; however, I am hoping for passage of this today so that the Committee
could be established and get to work, and finally get down the road of resolving
some of these issues that are so rampant here. Chair, thank you very much.
Chair Furfaro: For the public, could you just identify the
three (3) members?
Mr. Rapozo: As the Resolution has stated, the Committee
shall be composed of three (3) members of Council, including the Chair of the
Environmental Services / Public Safety / Community Assistance Committee, who
shall serve as the Chair. That would be myself. The Chair of the Economic
Development (Sustainability / Agriculture / Food / Energy) & Intergovernmental
Relations Committee, who shall serve as the Vice Chair. That would be Mr. Hooser.
Being that he is the Intergovernmental Relations Committee Chair, it was
appropriate for him to serve on this committee. The third member is to be selected
by the full Council. Should this Resolution pass today, this Council would be
responsible for selecting that third member.
COUNCIL MEETING 68 JUNE 12, 2013
Chair Furfaro: Are you finished? I will recognize
Councilmember Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: I had a question for the introducer. What
kind of timeframe are you thinking of? Forgive me if you have already said it.
What kind of costs are you looking at?
Mr. Rapozo: Obviously, we will not know the timeframe
on an investigation because we do not know what the investigation will find. As we
do the scope and we go out to solicit the Special Counsel, I think we have a better
indication at that point of what the costs will be.
Ms. Yukimura: In terms of sequence after you determine the
scope, you would then determine costs, and then figure out how to appropriate the
moneys needed?
Mr. Rapozo: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: Why would the scope not be determined right
now by the Council? That is such a big issue in terms of what you are voting for.
Mr. Rapozo: The Committee will determine the scope.
We do not have the Committee until we get the third person. At that point, the
Committee will decide what the scope should be.
Ms. Yukimura: You mean the Committee will propose to the
Council because I heard you say that the Council will determine the scope, so the
Committee would propose the scope?
Mr. Rapozo: Yes. Much like your Resolution did not have
a scope today, this one is yet to be determined.
Ms. Yukimura: I felt my Resolution had a scope, but okay.
Mr. Rapozo: I rely on your expertise in Housing and that
is why you have my support. I would appreciate your appreciation of my expertise
in Public Safety, as well as Mr. Hooser's expertise in Intergovernmental Relations,
and trust in the process that it will move. As I explained on the PowerPoint, it is
very clear this will be done in a fair and equitable manner.
Chair Furfaro: Since I recognized you, JoAnn, did you have
more before I recognize Mr. Hooser?
Ms. Yukimura: Later.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Mr. Hooser.
Mr. Hooser: Just a brief comment, if I might. The
original Resolution listed all the TMKs. I think it is clear from the discussion that
the scope would focus on those violations, but the County Attorney—it is my
understanding recommended that it not be so narrow in terms of just specifying
certain properties and that type of thing. Also, I just want to point out that the full
Council will have full control, if you would, over the progress of this Resolution. At
any time it can be put on the agenda, changed or modified, killed or accelerated, or
COUNCIL MEETING 69 JUNE 12, 2013
whatever, but the full Council will have total oversight over the conduct here. I
think that we can get lost in the minutia of the words and start getting into the
details, which is important, of course. I think we need to keep our eye on the big
picture and the reason that we are here today. The reason that we are here today is
because we have a number of instances that have been made public of abuse of the
TVR permitting system— egregious abuse. That abuse has not been refuted by the
Administration. We have given them several opportunities to take just one (1)
instance and disallow or show that one (1) instance was not accurate or had
inaccuracies. I think we need to look at the big picture and adopt a Resolution and
move forward on what is essentially, a fact finding mission to determine what
happened in this situation. If a similar situation was in the Tax Department and
the Tax Office gave out twenty-five (25) tax breaks to twenty-five (25) different
companies or people, and no one knows why or there was no substantiation or no
background or proof, we would naturally be asking questions. Permits are
essentially money. It is value. In some situations it could be millions of dollars of
permits given out in permits. Permits are "permission" from a public body giving
permission to a private person to do things that they would not otherwise be able to
do. These are very valuable commodities. What it looks like is arbitrary decisions
have been made. There are questions of equity. Why did one (1) person get it and
another did not? I think it behooves us as the policy making body of this County to
fulfill our responsibilities that has been granted to us by the Charter and move
forward and investigate this properly. I think it is critical that we take the steps
necessary to instill some faith and confidence in the process, otherwise we continue
to build cynicism about County government and the permitting process. I think it is
our obligation to move forward with this Resolution and I encourage all the
members really sincerely to think about this and vote in support so we can do our
job. Thank you, Chair.
Chair Furfaro: JoAnn, did you want the floor again? If not,
I will recognize Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: I have a question for Mel and then a
comment. Please explain to me this again. I am sorry if I am slow. The section
that says, "For the purposes of this Resolution only..."
Mr. Rapozo: The Resolution No. 2005-25— Peter, I do not
know if we have copies of that and maybe we could have Peter explain it better
legally. Resolution No. 2005-25 would require, I guess, the Chair of the Council to
oversee the Committee. The Chair had raised his concern several weeks ago that he
had asked the County Attorney or Peter, I believe, if he was able to relinquish that
requirement, so for this Resolution and this Resolution only, the Chair of the
Committee will be designated by the Resolution itself and not
Resolution No. 2005-25.
Mr. Bynum: So Resolution No. 2005-25 established 3.17?
Mr. Rapozo: It establishes the investigating committees
or it sets the parameters for the investigative committees.
Mr. Bynum: That was passed by the Council in 2005?
Mr. Rapozo: Yes, in 2005.
COUNCIL MEETING 70 JUNE 12, 2013
Mr. Bynum: Do we have a copy of that? I will continue
while— I made my position clear last time this was discussed and it has not
changed. I very much want this Council to invoke these 3.17 investigative powers.
I believe that this issue is very serious and significant, and there have been lots of
opportunities to get it right and it has not happened. We need fresh, independent,
thoughtful, and talented eyes to look at this whole situation. That is what doing an
investigation will allow. I support the provisions of this Amendment, other than the
section where it is a three (3) person Committee. I will only support this
investigation if it is done in the Committee of the Whole, where the entire Council
takes responsibility for this very serious issue. We have got a pretty good Council, a
very diverse group of individuals who have varying expertise. This is a critically
important issue for Kaua`i, and it needs all seven (7) members engaged in it. I
always keep an open mind, but I am not going to support a Resolution that has a
three (3) person Committee, regardless of the make-up of who the three (3) are.
That is not my concern. It is that the entire Council takes responsibility for this
very significant act. I believe we can pass this Resolution, and then I will introduce
a Resolution moving it to the Committee of the Whole that I circulated three (3) or
four (4) weeks ago. I think both of those could pass because I think the other
provisions are in this Amendment are good ones overall.
Mr. Rapozo: Chair, if I may? Ironically, we just passed a
Special Committee Resolution for Housing. For the same reasons that I am
suggesting a three (3) member Committee was the same reasons that
Councilmember Yukimura—otherwise the whole Housing Committee should be on
that Committee as well. Is Housing important? Definitely. There comes a point,
where you want to do the process where it is expedient, and it is most efficient; it
saves the most money. That is what this Resolution is trying to do. If it is a trust
issue, if there is a problem with this body feeling that I should Chair this
Committee; that is fine, find another Chair. But, I believe to make this work
properly and quickly, and then we need to keep the section. Just change the Chair
if you have a problem with me serving as the Chair of this Committee, find another
Chair. That is what I feel. I think that is what the real reason is because they are
afraid that I am going to go nuts. We set it up in a way that I cannot go nuts. We
set it up in a way that the investigator will do his job and we act as a liaison. If
there is a problem with that, let us just change that. Let us not throw the "baby out
of the bathwater" and affect the whole entire process. I offered my support to the
Housing Resolution because I felt that it was in capable hands. I think it is of same
importance that all of us should serve on it, but I know what that would do to the
process. Can you imagine posting every single meeting and every single dialogue
that you wanted to meet with your Committee? Six (6) days public notice and
public testimony? You would stretch this thing out for years. The Resolution is
only good for the term of that Council. I am trying to make this work. If it is a
trust issue, state it. Find another Chair because again, as Mr. Hooser just stated,
the control of this committee is really with the Council and the Council Chair. It is
not with the committee. That is fine. Obviously, the Committee will decide and I
am not going to not support a Resolution should it be with the Committee of the
Whole. I think it is the wrong thing to do, but I would definitely like to hear the
justification for that, not just, "I think it is important to the full Council."
Everything is important to the full Council, and the whole purpose of the Sunshine
Law and that section of the Sunshine Law, which allows the special committees, is
to move these things along in a much more efficient manner. That is all I have,
Mr. Chair.
Chair Furfaro: You have the floor, JoAnn.
COUNCIL MEETING 71 JUNE 12, 2013
Ms. Yukimura: I want to say that I feel there is a difference
between creating an Advisory Committee, which does not have powers of
investigation. An Investigative Committee, which is of Councilmembers using
Council powers of investigation, is a big, big difference. I also want to say because I
believe our rules require that the scope of the Committee's work be defined and the
scope of the Housing Advisory Committee is to advise the Housing &
Transportation Committee in the update of an ordinance. That is the scope. I feel
very uncomfortable of approving a Resolution that does not have a clear scope. I
feel like the expertise of both Councilmember Rapozo and Councilmember Hooser
can be brought to bear by creating a scope that we would pass as part of this
Resolution. Fact-finding as a function—I am not sure that we are going to be doing
fact-finding because to me, that can only be done by an authorized board; that is, if
we find that a permit was illegally produced or approved. A legal conclusion has to
be of an authorized board, it is not going to be something that the Council can do. It
either has to be the Planning Commission or a court. To me, if we look at what our
end in mind is, for me, the end in mind is revocation of improperly or fraudulently
secured permits or certificates, or it is prosecution of criminal actions and either of
this can be done by the County Council. My concern is that an investigation will
take a lot of time and energy from the Planning Department, Public Works
Department, and County Attorney's Office, that should be focused on actually
moving towards revocation and criminal prosecution. I like the idea of suspending
this motion or whatever as a hammer or a stick to move this process along. I think
it already has had a positive action in that direction because I do feel that the
process at best was disorganized and at worst, may have some improper actions or
relationships. I do not feel that I can come to those conclusions. They look like
there are some things amiss, but we have to go through a fact-finding process, and a
legal conclusionary process. I believe that can be done by those bodies that are
authorized to do those findings, fines, and criminal prosecution. I think we all have
the same end in mind. I think as reasonable people, we are disagreeing on how to
get there. It is a matter of time, money, and focus as to where we put our attention
and energies in order to get what we want done. For me as I have said before,
revocations and prosecutions where merited. To me, if we do that on just a few
cases, the word will get out and that will have an effect in itself. It will also need
sustained effort. It will be the job of all of us and our respective kuleana to make
sure that happens.
Mr. Rapozo: Can I just address a question?
Chair Furfaro: Go ahead.
Mr. Rapozo: JoAnn, based on your rationale— and let me
go back because maybe I did not explain it properly, but I thought I did. Nowhere
in this Resolution does it say that the Council is going to invoke any type of
sanction, no revocations, or none of that. This has nothing to do with that. It is
very clear if you look at Step 5, "The Council will act on the findings and
recommendations." What will happen is if it is a criminal matter, it gets forwarded
to the Office of the Prosecuting Attorney. If it is a civil matter... if it is a matter for
the Planning Commission or the Planning Director, it goes there. Nowhere in this
Resolution is the intent to invoke or sanction any property owner or employee. That
is not what this is about. If your rationale is right, then we cannot do 3.17 for
anything. If we cannot do fact-finding investigations, based on your rationale that,
"Oh, no because we do not have the authority to invoke any kind of sanction." What
good is 3.17? I think that is not a practical rationale, JoAnn, with all due respect.
COUNCIL MEETING 72 JUNE 12, 2013
That is our authority. It is clear in the Charter. We have with the authority to
investigate. It does not even say "fact-find." It says "investigate." That is what this
is trying to do. To come and say sorry, "We do not think it is our job but it is the
Planning Department," you are right and they have not done it. Now, it is in our
court. I just wanted to make sure that you understand that the intent is not to
invoke any type of sanction. It is to get to some findings and recommendations so
that this Council can act on the next steps.
Ms. Yukimura: I totally understand what you say and, in
fact, that is what I am saying is that the Council will come to findings and
recommendations. It will not come to what I think we all want to come to, which is
prosecutions, fines, and revocations. We are going to spend however long we spend
on this, and after six (6) months to a year, to two (2) years even; we come to these
findings and they are going to say, "Change the Planning Director," or, "We had
poor management and we need better management," or "it says that, "we need
different laws." Then we go from there? I guess I am feeling there is a plan that
has been proposed by the Administration. As I understand it, and I did review the
PowerPoint presentation last night— I came back from vacation... reviewed the
PowerPoint and reviewed last week's Committee discussion on it. It is my sense
that perhaps because of the threat of this investigation, the Administration— but
also partly it sounds like they had some ongoing investigations as well. There is
movement. There is a plan. They are the only ones; the Planning Commission, the
Planning Department, and the Prosecuting Attorney are really the only ones who
can bring us to prosecution, revocation, and fines. If that is our goal... it is my goal
as a Councilmember, then we need to let them do it with status reports and holding
their feet to the fire, but saying that is what we need and want.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: Wow. In 2000, we were asked by the citizens
to regulate vacation rentals. We passed the law in 2008 and the attorneys and
Administration came back and said the way you have written this law, we are going
to have these difficulties with implementing, and we are going to have these legal
problems, so we fixed those legal problems. We as a Council said, "This is your
chance to get this right. What do you need? What resources do you need? This is
very important to us. We wasted too much time." Now we have this circumstance
where it appears that of the twenty (20) or twenty-five (25) things that have been—
nobody has stood up and said, "Yes, we asked one of those guys for a document,
Council, that you required." This is about life and death. What are the
consequences of these things if they were done improperly? One is huge economic
benefit for individuals who may have committed fraud. One is the impact that it
has on our communities in the long run and the health and safety of individuals
who reside in these units and rent them. Somebody already has died. We are
talking death. How many chances do you get before the Council says, "You know
what? Enough already, we are going to do our own investigation." I feel very
strongly that an investigation is appropriate. I agree with many of the comments
that Mr. Rapozo made in his dialogue with Councilmember Yukimura. Yes, clearly
we have this authority. I am where I was before that this should be the Committee
of the Whole taking this very serious matter and putting their commitment behind
it and addressing it. The Administration could do whatever they wanted and all of
this will remain hidden. I do not want these things to remain hidden. Whether it
was from an applicant or mismanagement, whatever the reasons, I have not drawn
any conclusions of what I want the outcome to be. I want the outcome to be proper
COUNCIL MEETING 73 JUNE 12, 2013
process and health and safety. I hope this Committee will address moving it to the
Committee of the Whole and voting for this today.
Chair Furfaro: JoAnn.
Ms. Yukimura: I just wanted to say that I did not at all
question the authority of the Council to conduct this investigation. We clearly have
the power. The question is whether we want to do it and in what way we want to do
it? When I think about what the end goal is, I think we best defer this matter, and
hold the Planning Department and the team to its commitments for action.
Mr. Rapozo: Mr. Chair, I would ask if we could move on
the Amendment so we can get to the main motion to have the discussion on the
main motion. Right now, the discussion is only on the Amendment and if we could
get that disposed of.
Chair Furfaro: I think that is a fair request. Anymore
discussion on the Amendment? JoAnn?
Ms. Yukimura: I am going to vote for it because it makes it
better than it was. It does not mean that I will vote for the final Resolution. I do
agree with Councilmember Bynum that it is better as a Committee of the Whole.
Chair Furfaro: There is a question on the Amendment. You
can address Mr. Rapozo.
Ms. Nakamura: I agree that the Amendment addresses a lot
of concerns but I wanted to ask about the subpoena section on page three (3), 5(B),
"the subpoena of witnesses, via the presiding officer." Who is the presiding officer?
Mr. Rapozo: Whoever is eventually named as the
presiding officer on the Resolution. Currently, it would be myself or the Vice Chair
of the Committee, which would be Mr. Hooser.
Ms. Nakamura: I did not see in the steps that have been
outlined here, when that subpoena power would be used in this process.
Mr. Rapozo: That would be up to the discretion of the
investigator. The way it works is that the investigator will conduct the
investigation. We have not determined who it will be but as an investigator, I
would assume, and we do not know yet because we have not really determined who
it will be, but as an investigator, I would assume the investigator would attempt to
get the records. It would be a simple request to the Planning Department for
records pertaining to these files or these cases. If the Planning Department was to
cooperate, I would assume there would be no need for a subpoena; however, at some
point, if a witness or requests for records would be ignored or refused— at that
point I would assume a subpoena request would be made.
Ms. Nakamura: The request would be made to the
Committee and then the Committee would by the investigator. Is that kind of how
you see it happening?
COUNCIL MEETING 74 JUNE 12, 2013
Mr. Rapozo: Correct. The subpoena has to be signed by
someone. Every subpoena has to be signed by a person and in this case, it would be
the Presiding Officer.
Ms. Nakamura: Okay. In terms of the Budget for Special
Counsel, would that come under the County Attorney's line item, or is that under
the Council's line item?
Mr. Rapozo: I believe that would come out of Council's
line item.
Ms. Nakamura: For this upcoming year, what is our Budget
for Special Counsel?
Mr. Rapozo: I am not sure.
Chair Furfaro: It is not just Special Counsel, it is twenty
thousand dollars ($20,000), but it is for all consultants for the Council.
Ms. Nakamura: So we have twenty thousand dollars
($20,000) to engage a potentially a Special Counsel for this investigation?
Mr. Rapozo: Correct.
Ms. Nakamura: That is our budget?
Mr. Rapozo: That is what is in the line right now. I would
not say it is the budget. In fact, if more money would be required, it would be up to
the full Council, not the Committee to determine whether or not the process would
want to be continued. I envision that should the Special Counsel need more money,
it would have to come to the full Council. At that point, the Council would
determine whether or not they are going to allow it to continue. Again, remember
that the status updates would be occurring along the way. My feeling is that after a
few of these properties... after a few of these cases, I think it is my hope that we
would be able to determine some trends at that point. At that point, I think we
would be able to determine whether or not we would like to continue or not.
Ms. Nakamura: Would it be an open ended scope to go
through a couple of the cases or...
Mr. Rapozo: This full Council would determine the scope.
Ms. Nakamura: Okay.
Chair Furfaro: I am going to let you add to the item before I
recognize Mr. Bynum, but you are adding to the comments?
Mr. Hooser: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Okay, go ahead.
Mr. Hooser: I think there has been a lot of talk about the
scope. I think if you look at the public record, the record of today's discussion, the
record of the discussion last week; at the end of the day, the intent of the Resolution
COUNCIL MEETING 75 JUNE 12, 2013
is pretty clear. When the Committee— if this Council in its wisdom approves the
investigation, the Committee will then reduce the scope, the conversations that we
have had into a document and then that document will be vetted, if you would, by
the full Council. Please jump in and correct me if I am wrong. It is not three (3)
people acting independently. It is for expediency, if you would, to condense into
paper, vetted to the full Council, and then go out and procure the investigative
services. I think if you go based on past conversations, we are looking at the most
egregious allegations and determining if they are true. It is true that the file is
empty? Is it true that this document was submitted with dates that are totally
inappropriate from what the law requires? Is that true? That truth can be
determined by an independent investigator requesting the documents. I think that
is the first step. The way that I envision it is the investigator then starts to
determine a pattern or not. Maybe the allegations are incorrect. Maybe after two
(2), or three (3), or four (4) that are looked at, "No, they are incorrect and no, we do
not want to waste any more time. We will pull the plug." The Council could pull
the plug or it can be the opposite case. I think that is what we mean. When you
start looking into it, you really do not know until the investigator starts requesting
facts to determine the validity of some of these allegations. It is not meant to be
open ended, certainly not from me. I would add what Councilmember Rapozo said,
if this Council wants to have other members on the Committee, I am okay with
that. We are all busy. I have got stuff to do. I am not wed to the committee as a
member either. If people feel more comfortable with others on it, I am certainly
okay with that. That is all. I just wanted to share those comments and maybe to
add a little more light to the process. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: I want to correct a statement I made. We
have legal counsel of twenty thousand dollars ($20,000). We have "Other
Consulting Services" unspecified of fifteen thousand dollars ($15,000) for a total of
thirty-five thousand dollars ($35,000).
Mr. Rapozo: That is what I understood it as, that it was
thirty-five thousand dollars ($35,000).
Chair Furfaro: It was not just "legal counsel," it was two (2)
line items.
Mr. Rapozo: If I may follow-up to what Mr. Hooser said as
it relates to Councilmember Nakamura, being she is the Planning Committee
Chair, that is who I would recommend as the third— should we get to the point in
the discussion, that I would recommend the Planning Committee Chair to also serve
on this committee.
Chair Furfaro: We need to get a vote on the amended piece,
right? Are there any more comments about the Amendment? Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: I appreciate this dialogue and bringing up
Resolution No. 2005-25, which we have had circulated, and these are the current
"Rules of the Council" as I see it. This was adopted as Rules of the Council and all
of Mr. Rapozo's amendments are consistent with this document except the three (3)
person Committee. When the Council looked at this in 2005, they determined that
the rules should be in the Committee of the Whole and that the entire Council be
involved. I am a little confused about process right now because I have an
Amendment that I circulated several weeks ago that I think is sufficient. Some of
the language in Councilmember Rapozo's Amendment, I support and it clarifies it.
COUNCIL MEETING 76 JUNE 12, 2013
It is okay the way it exists in my mind because it gives latitude. I have made it
clear that I am not going support a three (3) person Committee. If I vote for this
Resolution, and then subsequently pass out this one for Committee of the Whole,
will the provisions— I have process questions. Floor Amendment to amend the
Amendment?
Ms. Yukimura: Either way.
Chair Furfaro: You can do it either way, Tim.
Mr. Bynum: Okay. Based on that, I intend to introduce
an Amendment that will modify this one. I am going to vote for the Amendment in
order to get that improved language, but I intend to introduce, as soon as I am
allowed by the Chair, an Amendment that would move the investigation into the
Committee of the Whole.
Chair Furfaro: JoAnn, you wanted the floor?
Ms. Yukimura: No.
Mr. Rapozo: I want to call for the question on the
Amendment, Mr. Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Right. Mr. Clerk, you understood that we
are going to call for the question on this first Amendment, but there might be a
subsequent amendment. May I please have a roll call vote, please?
The motion to amend Resolution No. 2013-55 to Draft 1, was then put, and
carried by the following vote:
FOR AMENDMENT: Bynum, Hooser, Kagawa, Nakamura,
Rapozo, Yukimura, Furfaro TOTAL – 7,
AGAINST AMENDMENT: None TOTAL – 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL– 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL – 0.
Chair Furfaro: I want to thank Mr. Rapozo for taking the
consideration on the comments last time around.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Chair Furfaro: I want to make sure since the paper came in
front of me when I voted, my vote was yes on the Amendment. Do not reach the poi
bowl in front of me. We have 7:0 on the Amendment, and now I will recognize
Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: Do you have the new one, Peter? So the
Amendment that initially was pushed out with my name on it had a piece missing.
Please discard that and the one that is being distributed. Is it the same one?
PETER MORIMOTO, Legal Analyst: No.
Mr. Bynum: This one?
COUNCIL MEETING 77 JUNE 12, 2013
Mr. Morimoto: There are two (2). You have two (2) proposed
amendments.
Mr. Bynum: I have two (2) amendments?
Mr. Morimoto: Yes.
Mr. Bynum: They were not in one?
Mr. Morimoto: No.
Mr. Bynum: Okay. I had two (2) amendments
apparently. I thought they were combined in one. This one, I move to amend as
circulated.
Mr. Bynum moved to amend Resolution No. 2013-55, Draft 1 as circulated, as
shown in the Floor Amendment which is attached hereto as Attachment 4,
seconded by Ms. Nakamura.
Mr. Bynum: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Councilmember Yukimura, you have the
floor.
Ms. Yukimura: I think it has to be a Floor Amendment to
the Resolution No. 2013-55, as amended. It is a technicality, but it is not to the
original Resolution.
Chair Furfaro: Okay, technicality so noted.
Ms. Yukimura: I do not see the Committee of the Whole
mentioned...oh, I see.
Mr. Bynum: "The Committee shall be composed of the
Committee of the Whole." That is the second part.
Chair Furfaro: Do you have further questions, JoAnn?
Ms. Yukimura: No, but I think this has to be changed before
we vote on it.
Chair Furfaro: Yes, understood.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Staff, did you note the change? Thank you.
Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: I will just say in number one (1), it just takes
out the word "joint," so it says, "An investigative Committee is hereby established
according to..." the same language and the second part says, "The Committee shall
be composed of the Committee of the Whole..." as opposed to the previous language.
I made my point clear. I want us to do this investigation. I believe it is
COUNCIL MEETING 78 JUNE 12, 2013
appropriately done in the Committee of the Whole, as our Council Rules currently
say.
Chair Furfaro: I think Mr. Hooser wanted the floor next.
Mr. Hooser: I just have a quick question, Chair. It would
F be important for me to know— and I think it is important for the decision, I should
say, whether the Chairperson of the Committee of the Whole would be supportive of
the main motion because it seems like whoever was going to be in charge of the
Committee would need to be an advocate or supportive of the Committee itself if
you follow what I am saying. If someone who was not supportive and was put as
Chair could be...
Chair Furfaro: I made my point last week. I thought it was
both connected. The fact of the matter is that on June 5th, we had a presentation
from the Planning Department. I thought for the first time we were really getting
somewhere with their process. I indicated that I would like to give them ninety (90)
days to work on this, and I even solicited help from other departments, but if
nothing happened by October 9th, I would definitely support the Resolution after
giving them ninety (90) days. Now, yours is a fair question. I still think that giving
them the ninety (90) days is the right approach, and I will tell you why. What I am
really afraid of is if we launch this investigation, the records are frozen. We are so
close to actually revoking a few, and I am going push for prosecution on those. It
was a fair question, Mr. Hooser, and I have stated my place. I may not be
supporting this Amendment. Fair question. Mr. Bynum, you have the floor.
Mr. Bynum: I will follow-up with that question. If the
majority of the Council voted to move this to the Committee of the Whole and voted
to it, would you act as the Chair of the Committee of the Whole and fulfill that
responsibility?
Chair Furfaro: I have never stepped away from my
responsibilities.
Mr. Bynum: You are saying you would not participate?
Chair Furfaro: If the majority did pass that, I would. If you
are asking if you would support this at this time, I support the October 9th plan.
Mr. Bynum: Okay. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo, and then Mr. Kagawa.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to make sure
that we understand Mr. Bynum mentioned that it is inconsistent with the rule.
Section 2 of the Resolution clears that up. This was vetted through the County
Attorney's Office. It is inconsistent with Resolution No. 2005-25, but we fixed it by
adding that language. In fact, for this purpose, and this Resolution only, we can
change the make-up of the Committee.
Chair Furfaro: May I respond to that?
Mr. Rapozo: Sure.
COUNCIL MEETING 79 JUNE 12, 2013
Chair Furfaro: I wanted to make sure there was another
part and there has been nobody closer to this since 2002, when JoAnn recruited me
to be on this ad hoc Committee. This whole thing pains me, but I think we are close
on one resolve and I want to acknowledge that you heard me last week. I want to
acknowledge that, Mel. My main point is that I am afraid that if we launch this, all
the records get frozen.
Mr. Rapozo: Let me just add this other clarification, as an
investigator myself. I totally respect your experience in the hotel industry and I
would never request your opinion or authority on hotel and the visitor industry.
But this is my forte and I did white collar crime for many years in the Kaua`i Police
Department. The records do not get frozen. I do not know where that is coming up.
The records do not get frozen. The Planning Department is not going to be brought
to a screeching halt, ladies and gentlemen. The investigator is going to call
Mr. Dahilig and say, "Mike, please send me over copies of your files a, b, c, and d."
Mr. Dahilig is going to go and make the copies and put it in a nice little package,
hopefully, and send it to the investigator. The Planning Department is going to
continue to operate. I do not know where that started, but I have heard that from
several people in the community, and I have heard that from several members of
the Council today. That is not true. I know you are responding to what you are
being told...
Chair Furfaro: I was told that and I just to say, I want to
move forward with this, but if it freezes the records... because they even went as far
as telling me that all of the original records would be held.
Mr. Rapozo: I do not know who "they" are, but if "they"
are in this room, I would ask that you suspend the rules and they come up to this
seat and tell us that on the record...
Chair Furfaro: I did not appreciate the audience laughing at
a procedure that was given to the Council Chair. I am an officer of the County, and
I have to make sure I investigate all of those particular pieces. This is not a
laughing matter. If that is the feedback I got, it is not worth laughing at. It is
certainly worth getting to the bottom of. Thank you, Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: Mr. Chair, I appreciate the question because
if that was fact, I would obviously not support it, but I can tell you sitting here
today, that is not going to happen. The Planning Department is not going to be told
to stop operating.
Chair Furfaro: I did not say that they said "operating," I
said stop on the "procedural pieces."
Mr. Rapozo: That is simply not true.
Chair Furfaro: Okay.
Mr. Rapozo: Again, would I ask that anyone in this
audience that—I am not going to ask you to expose who told you that, but if you are
here, I would ask that the rules be suspended. I want that on the record. I had one
more thing. That just took me by surprise right now. That is the thing. This here
is an opportunity to determine what went wrong. That kind of responses from the
Administration further convinces me that this is necessary. I want this thing done
COUNCIL MEETING 80 JUNE 12, 2013
as soon as possible, hence the request for a three (3) member Committee.
Mr. Bynum says he will not support it if we do not get the Committee of the Whole.
That is his prerogative. Some of you want to defer this until October. I am not
going to wait until October. Whether we get this thing passed today or not, I am
not convinced. What we had so far, Mr. Chair, was a PowerPoint presentation. We
have had PowerPoint presentations for many years. We have had assurances from
the Planning Department for many years. All of it has gone nowhere. I
understand. I really want to be in that comfortable position saying that I think this
time it is for real, but I am not convinced of that. Again, when we get back to the—
we are back on the main motion already. I will have some comments.
Mr. Bynum: Actually, we are on my amendments.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay. I will save my comments for the main
motion.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Before I recognize Mr. Kagawa, I
want you to know that I certainly recognize your professional skill as an
investigator.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you.
Mr. Kagawa: I will not be supporting this Amendment and
this is my reason. This is a situation that needs a fast remedy. Putting a seven (7)
member body from the Council instead of three (3) members will slow it down a lot.
To stick with the reason why Mr. Rapozo and Mr. Hooser has come to this point and
said, "We need this Resolution. We got to solve this crisis now." Changing it to
include more than three (3) members, which would require posting every meeting
and "sunshining," it just takes away from the purpose of why they are doing this
3.17. The fact of the matter is when they are done with their findings, they will
come to the full body and we will ultimately be making the decisions as to what this
Committee finds. I am totally in support of having the three (3) member body. I
originally wanted to sit on that Committee, but my lack of support at this time— I
will support it, if I do not see some progress in the near future, but my lack of
support, I guess took me off the Committee. Did I want to stay on the Committee?
Of course. Anything this important, you would like to be part of however, I
understand fully and if I was the head of Committee, I would take myself off.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Chair Furfaro: On the Amendment, JoAnn?
Ms. Yukimura: Well, I wanted to speak about the impacts on
the investigative processes of the Planning Department. I do not see it as freezing
the files, though I think there is a legitimate question that I may ask soon. My
concern is time, attention, and focus of the Planning Department...
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me, JoAnn. I want to make sure that
you understand that we are taking testimony now on the Amendment.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay.
Chair Furfaro: I will give you time for that because
obviously, I need to speak to that, too, for more clarification but on the Amendment,
please.
COUNCIL MEETING 81 JUNE 12, 2013
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you. On the Amendment, I guess I
feel it is better if it is a Council function for it to be a Committee of the Whole. I am
still very bothered that we would not have a Scope of Work as part of the original
Resolution. I cannot see why we would have to make it another step if it is still this
body doing it, if we are authorizing an investigation, we need to know what scope of
investigation we are authorizing, and it should be this body that does the
investigation.
Chair Furfaro: Okay, if there is no more testimony on the
Amendment, I would like to take a recess so that we can have the corrected
Amendment in front of us before we take the vote. That has always been my policy.
At this time, can we go on a recess for no more than five (5) minutes and have this
done? Mr. Clerk, give me some guidelines— or ten (10) minutes?
Mr. Watanabe: Ten (10) minutes, Mr. Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. We are on a ten (10) minute recess.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 3:26 p.m.
The meeting reconvened at 3:42 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: We are back in session. Before I go further,
JoAnn, do you have a question for Mr. Rapozo?
Ms. Yukimura: Yes, just to clarify on the passing
Amendment, but it goes to the Committee doing its work...when you have subpoena
witnesses signed by the presiding officer, nobody in the Committee will be doing the
questioning of the witness? That will be done by the Special Counsel or whoever, is
that what the intention is?
Mr. Rapozo: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. That helps clarify for me, thank you.
The Committee will not be sitting in...
Mr. Rapozo: Will you put the slide back up again. "Will
take no active part in the investigation."
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Rapozo: I thought I made myself clear.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. The Special Counsel will have
transcripts of the testimony?
Mr. Rapozo: If that is what the Council wants, we will put
it in the scope.
Ms. Yukimura: That is not a scope.
COUNCIL MEETING 82 JUNE 12, 2013
Mr. Rapozo: It would be in the scope of their contract,
JoAnn. If we want them to record and transcribe all statements, we put that in the
scope.
Chair Furfaro: I would like to ask a question, not that the
two (2) of you have dialogue.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: I think Mr. Rapozo answered you on that. I
have a choice now, either to expedite this because Mr. Hooser is planning to leave at
4:00 p.m., right?
Mr. Hooser: When this item is done, then I will leave.
Chair Furfaro: You do not mind me calling up the County
Attorney?
Mr. Hooser: No, go ahead.
Chair Furfaro: Al, could I have your presence up, please?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Mr. Castillo: Good afternoon, Council Chair and
Councilmembers. Al Castillo, County Attorney.
Chair Furfaro: Al, I want to pose one (1) question to you. I
would like some affirmation that is where I got the information from, but more
importantly, the rationale of what might happen as a 3.17 is voted on by the
Council; that the pertinent files related to the investigation— we would then find
ourselves that no files could be modified, the originals would be used to evaluate,
and therefore, the process would kind of go into a period of limbo while the files are
reviewed? Can you cite some section or rule of law that would impose that upon our
records?
Mr. Castillo: Council Chair and Councilmembers, in my
review or my observation of the discussions that have been going on for the past
couple of Council sessions; my concern— I cannot point to any rule of law right now
at this point in time. Please allow me to elaborate what my concerns are. Last
week, the discussion that was going on led more for me to believe that a
performance audit was being discussed. Whatever your discussion was at that
time, in my mind, in listening to the discussion on the floor, it seemed like a
performance audit was being discussed. Now, that performance audit has kind of
morphed from a— it started with a 3.17 and then it moved towards a 3.12. Now the
discussion is that there will be a Special Counsel. I have reviewed the Resolution. I
have reviewed one (1) Amendment of the Resolution and another version of the
Resolution. Now, we are talking about a Special Counsel. It is almost like akin to a
hearings officer. My concern is that if this is under a 3.17, it is not a normal
employment investigation. It is not a normal employment matter. Because this
Resolution is a 3.17, in all three (3) versions that I have been able to read and
review, it still basically says that the provisions of 3.17 applies. If that is the case,
then 3.17 is clear that we still are looking for... or there is still a possibility of
alleged criminal action. Now my concern is the penalty provision, where it states
COUNCIL MEETING 83 JUNE 12, 2013
that "any person convicted of violating or causing or permitting the violation of any
of the provisions of this chapter shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, a year in jail
and/or a fine of two thousand dollars ($2,000)..." The penalties go further and
because this is a 3.17 and because you have these possible penalties attached to it,
we have to look at due process rights of everyone involved. That is where the
preservation of evidence is important. We can do the legal research for you and give
you citing, but because it would be under the 3.17, we cannot tamper with the
evidence. Right now, when you talk about "you will not be involved," it seems to me
this would be a hearings officer because that person will be able to subpoena, take
testimony, and that is just like a regular hearing. Now then what happens to the
people that are being investigated? Well, in any matter relating to their official
powers and duties, the County Attorney has to defend, and we are looking at a
Department where we only have a few County Attorneys and Deputy County
Attorneys to go around, and we may be in conflict. That may be costly. I do not
know if I answered your question, but yes, because we are looking at evidence, we
have to preserve the evidence and we cannot tamper with the records.
Chair Furfaro: On that note, we will have a couple of
questions for you. Thank you for coming up. My reference was to the TVR
permitting process. My comment was not about going forward in doing business as
the Planning Department, but you are relating this understanding that an
investigation could lead to the preserving of records?
Mr. Castillo: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Mr. Rapozo, and then Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Rapozo: I have a couple of questions. First of all, I do
not think it is your authority to represent employees in criminal matters, right?
Mr. Castillo: That is...
Mr. Rapozo: Let me just finish.
Mr. Castillo: Let me answer the question first, please.
Mr. Rapozo: Let me clarify, so you can answer properly.
You went from a 3.17 investigation which is clear in here. It says "investigate and
make findings regarding the operations and/or functions of the County Planning
Department pertaining to the processing of applications." You went from that to
"criminal prosecution" and "hearings officers," I do not know where you go that far.
This is an investigation into the process. If your rationale is true, when we do our
Financial Audit every year and hire external auditors to come down and go through
records at the Finance Department and all of the various departments, would not
that be in the same boat? In case somebody was doing something wrong in
Accounting or in case somebody was doing something wrong in Finance, they have
to have due process hearing— of course. I guess I am confused. I do not think the
Charter allows to you represent someone in a criminal matter.
Mr. Castillo: Council Chair, may I answer?
Chair Furfaro: Yes, go right ahead.
COUNCIL MEETING 84 JUNE 12, 2013
Mr. Castillo: Councilmember Rapozo, we are not going to
compare apples-to-oranges. We are going to compare apples-to-apples. The reason
why I am concerned is the fact that in the Resolution that is being proposed, what
it says here is... and I am looking at "H" and I believe that both of the... all three
(3)— well, at least the two (2) revisions of the original Resolution basically says
"exercise all powers specified under Section 3.17." I am not expanding on anything,
but merely looking at 3.17 and again, 3.17 talks about gross misconduct or alleged
criminal action. Then if you look at the penalty provision, it does talk about— that
is where this is all connected. That is my concern. That is where all of the due
process rights of everyone concerned will be involved. Also, right now, depending on
the way that you setup this investigation... because we have merely been discussing
and we have gone from one end to the other and from hearings officer to 3.17. At
the end of the day, then we will make the determination of whether or not or how
this will affect the TVR operators. There may be some due process rights there,
depending on how we set up this so-called Special Counsel or hearings officer.
Chair Furfaro: You had a question for Al?
Mr. Bynum: Yes, I do. First of all, the issue about records
is about spoilage, right? It is about the duty of the County to maintain the integrity
of the records and not allow disposal or deletions from computers, right?
Mr. Castillo: That is correct.
Mr. Bynum: That does not mean that those records are
not available to the Planning Department during the process to continue their work,
right?
Mr. Castillo: No. That is not correct because it may affect
the person who was in charge, primarily because of how the penalty section is
worded. One could make an argument regarding fault and/or liability. I do not
want to go further.
Mr. Bynum: Can you be clearer about— if I follow this
logic, you are saying that you can never do a 3.17?
Mr. Castillo: No, that is not what I am saying.
Mr. Bynum: It sure sounds like that.
Mr. Castillo: No, that is not what I am saying. You can do
a 3.17 and when you finalize what you are going to do, we will be more able to
clearly identify or help you in how to do it. Right now, the way you have it setup, it
is not confined. Now to answer your question, the reason why I am saying that you
are incorrect on your assumption is because does second-guessing get you in
trouble? The wording of the penalty provision does account for the question of why
did you not do this and why did you not do that, meaning why did you cause to
happen or why did you permit this to happen. Therefore, you might be liable for
what happened— criminally liable. That is a concern.
Mr. Bynum: You are referring to the Charter, when you
talk about the penalty provisions?
Mr. Castillo: No, I am looking at...
COUNCIL MEETING 85 JUNE 12, 2013
Mr. Bynum: At the Resolution?
Mr. Castillo: No, Section 8-24.1.
Mr. Bynum: I am sorry?
Mr. Castillo: The County Code. That is where the
provision for the penalty section is.
Mr. Bynum: Those are the same penalties that are
common in many of our ordinances, correct?
Mr. Castillo: Yes, and just because they are common does
not necessarily mean...
Mr. Bynum: So I do not understand your whole
testimony, Al. What are you saying? Do not do this? Or are you saying "be careful
and we will have to be careful how we write the Scope of Work?" I am not clear
what your testimony here is.
Mr. Castillo: Okay, maybe I am not answering your
question.
Mr. Bynum: Maybe it is my fault. When I started, I
thought this was about records. Somebody made this thing like, "Oh, if we do this
investigation, the records will be sealed and nobody can continue to do work. I do
not believe that is accurate.
Mr. Castillo: Well, you are entitled to your belief.
Mr. Bynum: So all the records in the County Planning
Department will be sealed if we invoke this?
Mr. Castillo: No.
Chair Furfaro: Let us move on. Mr. Hooser wants and
JoAnn wants to be recognized.
Mr. Hooser: I would like to suggest that we go back to
and vote on the motion to expand the Committee. The County Attorney has
reviewed these amendments since our last meeting. I know Councilmember Rapozo
has had several meetings and looked at the language and I thought got the go-
ahead to do it. Quite frankly, I feel like we are just talking in circles here and not
really accomplishing a whole lot. The Charter clearly gives us the authority, the
power, and the responsibility to do these kinds of investigations and to be told this
will somehow "jam up" the Department's operation— I just find... not a good use of
my time. I am just pretty much flabbergasted by the conversation we are having
right now and would like to move on, and get the voting done and get our own
internal discussion done because I do not believe we are really getting anything of
significance with this discussion.
Chair Furfaro: Again, Mr. Rapozo asked when I was sharing
my concern about the critical path and the hurdles that we had, Mr. Rapozo raised
COUNCIL MEETING 86 JUNE 12, 2013
it and said he would like to be able to challenge that interpretation. That is why we
are here, so I will give JoAnn the floor and move on.
Mr. Hooser: I just want to thank you for that and do not
begrudge the opportunity for the County Attorney to be here, but it just seems we
are making good use of the time.
Chair Furfaro: Understood, but it was based on some
follow-up. JoAnn, do you have questions regarding this critical path?
Ms. Yukimura: Yes. So the files of an ongoing investigation
by the Planning Department may not be frozen, but the investigation may be
affected by a subpoenaing of the documents or of witnesses there too, is that not
correct?
Mr. Castillo: That is correct.
Ms. Yukimura: If the Planning Director has the
responsibility to ensure the integrity of the investigation and feels that it could be
jeopardized by making the files available, he can refuse to make the files available
or to quash the subpoena in court and it will go to a Circuit Court hearing?
Mr. Castillo: That is correct.
Ms. Yukimura: There will be a tremendous amount of time
and energy on each file that is under investigation and ongoing investigation by the
Planning Department in terms of if those files is subpoenaed by the County
Council?
Mr. Castillo: Yes, depending on the circumstances, that
could happen.
Ms. Yukimura: Well, my understanding of investigations
and admittedly, Councilmember Rapozo is much more expert on this, but you want
to keep the integrity of the investigation so to have an investigation of the
investigation while it is ongoing can really jeopardize the investigation?
Mr. Castillo: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay, so that is one (1) issue that will come
up almost immediately. While the files may not be frozen, it could still take a
tremendous amount of time and energy; one (1), to make the files available to this
body and two (2), to continue the investigation to fruition, hopefully revocation,
fines, or prosecution?
Mr. Castillo: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: That is one (1) thing I wanted to clarify.
Number two (2), Councilmember Hooser has said there are apparently some
egregious actions and that could lead to a criminal matter?
Mr. Castillo: Yes.
COUNCIL MEETING 87 JUNE 12, 2013
Ms. Yukimura: If there is that possibility in a hearing, and
whether it is a landowner or a County employee, there will be due process issues at
stake?
Mr. Castillo: That is correct.
Ms. Yukimura: The level of due process requirements will be
much higher if there is a potential criminal proceeding?
Mr. Castillo: That is correct.
Ms. Yukimura: That means that the attorneys of the
landowner may be present, cross-examination, and there may be County employees
if they are involved. I do not know if there are issues of representation. Then there
will be a requirement of a clear recording or accurate record, so there will be all of
those costs?
Mr. Castillo: Yes, I am told that the recorder/court
reporter is one thousand dollars ($1,000) a day, something like that.
Chair Furfaro: I am going to stop this at this point. You
have answered my question. You have answered the solicitation of others of where
this information is coming from. I want to go and give Mr. Bynum the floor for a
last pitch of his Amendment, and then we are going to vote on it. Al, thank you
very much.
Mr. Castillo: You are welcome.
Ms. Yukimura: I have one (1) question of Al about the
Committee.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Al, one (1) question.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. The Charter says, "The Council or
any authorized Committee shall have the power to investigate." If we get Special
Counsel, is that an authorized Committee?
Mr. Castillo: I need to research that.
Ms. Yukimura: Because it says, "The presiding officer of the
Committee shall have the right to administer oaths and subpoena witnesses and
compel the production of papers if any person subpoenaed as a witness shall fail to
respond..."
Mr. Castillo: A committee of one (1)— that is your
question and I do not want to give you an answer off the top of my head.
Ms. Yukimura: Well, my question is whether in fact, under
this language, if Special Counsel can be the one to administer oath, ask questions,
or whether it has to be the Council authorized Committee. It seems like that...
Mr. Castillo: Precisely my point, where there is a lot of
discussion on speculation on this and speculation on that... if it was decided that
COUNCIL MEETING 88 JUNE 12, 2013
the Committee delegated by this Council will be the Special Counsel, and then we
could look at the legality of that. That is what you are talking about?
Ms. Yukimura: To me it raises a big question.
Mr. Castillo: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Bynum, we will go back to you on your
Amendment.
Mr. Bynum: Chair, there are Council Rules existing that
were vetted in 2005. This last dialogue was just kind of like, "Oh, it is going to be
really difficult and might cause this problem and might cause this problem," but we
know what doing nothing causes. We already know that. This is a little
frustrating. I believe it is really clear. We establish this Committee. We will get a
Special Counsel. We will get an attorney or an investigator, a firm, who really
knows their stuff and has no ties to Kaua`i, right? They are going to meet with the
Planning Department and the Planning Department is going to cooperate. They are
going to work with them. I do not expect...
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Bynum, I gave you the floor for your
Amendments.
Mr. Bynum: Okay. I have an Amendment that moves
this Committee to the Committee of the Whole. It keeps all of the other provisions
of Mr. Rapozo's Amendment that just passed because I thought those were good
clarifications and made it clear. It just changes the portion and makes sure that
any investigation happens in the Committee of the Whole. I believe that is the best
way to go.
Chair Furfaro: Comments on this Amendment before I call
for the vote? JoAnn?
Ms. Yukimura: Well, yes, I am reading from
Resolution No. 2005-25, Draft 1, and it says, "the Investigating Committee may
hold hearings appropriate to performance of its duties and each member of the
Investigating Committee shall be given six (6) days notice of any hearing and that
they shall be open to the public unless by recorded two-thirds vote of all its
members and that the presiding officer shall supervise the examination by members
of the Committee." By the Council's Rules, it anticipates questioning by Committee,
not by Special Counsel, which to me makes it more important than that we have the
whole Committee rather than just three (3) members of the Council.
Chair Furfaro: On that note, I want to take this vote.
Mr. Rapozo?
Mr. Rapozo: This is repetitious and it has gone through
the County Attorney.
COUNCIL MEETING 89 JUNE 12, 2013
Chair Furfaro: I just said that and call for the vote, please.
Mr. Rapozo: I am just saying that "for the purposes of this
Resolution only the extent to which the provisions relating..."
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo, I just called for the vote.
Mr. Rapozo: I am just tired of this...
Chair Furfaro: I understand your concerns, they are valid. I
want to call for the vote.
The motion to amend Resolution No. 2013-55, Draft 1 as circulated, was
then put, and carried by the following vote:
FOR AMENDMENT: Bynum, Hooser, Kagawa, Nakamura,
Rapozo, Yukimura TOTAL — 6,
AGAINST AMENDMENT: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0,
SILENT: Furfaro TOTAL — 1.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo, you have the floor.
Mr. Rapozo: Before we get into the discussion, now that
we are back to the main motion, can we get the public testimony and then we can
get into your discussion?
Chair Furfaro: I think that is a fair and reasonable
comment. Before we get to the main motion, that has two (2) amendments to it, I
will ask for public testimony. Do we have anybody who is signed up? Nobody
signed up?
JADE K. FOUNTAIN-TANIGAWA, Deputy County Clerk: Council Chair,
we have no registered speakers.
Chair Furfaro: Glenn, you have to remember, when you sit
in front of that chair, I cannot see your hand up. I am sorry. Please come up. You
do understand the Amendment has amended twice now?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Mr. Mickens: Yes. For the record, Glenn Mickens. Thank
you, BC. I have been waiting for many years to see 3.17 used. In my quest to have
the roads properly paved, Kilauea Gym roof debacle done, and the absurd amount of
money spent on the Bike Path, I now applaud Mel and Gary for finally getting this
Amendment before us. Let us see why Joan Conrow had to be the private party to
push this issue and let the chips fall where they may. I completely support
Resolution No. 2013-55 and the three (3) member body that they are pushing. It
has been in our constitution for many years that we have this 3.17. I think there
have been so many times it should have been used and again, I am so happy to see
that Mel and Gary have finally used it. Thank you, Jay.
COUNCIL MEETING 90 JUNE 12, 2013
Chair Furfaro: I am glad you are happy, Glenn. Ken, did
you want to speak? Ken? No?
Mr. Sykos: Good afternoon, Council Chair and
Councilmembers. For the record, Lonnie Sykos. First, Council Chair I would like to
apologize for laughing earlier.
Chair Furfaro: I accept your apology, but I want to make
sure that everyone understands, Lonnie. I took an Oath of Office to protect the
County of Kaua`i. That is foremost. There are no irrelevant questions, especially if
we have got information. I took it very seriously. I have a job. I took an oath, but I
accept your apology.
Mr. Sykos: I did not laugh about your comments. I
laughed about the comments that the Administration would be fully capable of
resolving this internally. I find that to be hysterical, actually. My comments today
is— first off, although I understand there are procedural issues and I understand
the rationale from Councilmembers Bynum and Yukimura about expanding the
Committee, this will get accomplished most rapidly with the three (3) person
Committee because as was discussed all of the issues of the Sunshine Law. This
could be resolved much quicker by funding the Auditor and have the Auditor do a
performance audit. That is another option that is available. There are multiple
options available, including the member of the public or the public as a class filing a
class action suit to cause and force resolution of all of this. We do not want to do it
and the public wants to see this cleaned up and they are not on a witch hunt, nor
are Mel and Gary on a witch hunt; however, at some point, the people in the
Administration need to be held accountable for their commissions and omissions.
So sitting here today, I am reminded of the fable about Brer Rabbit and Brer Rabbit
is caught by the fox and convinces the fox to through him into the tar pit, versus
eating him, that being in the tar pit will be worse than being eaten. Justice in this
whole thing, which is the Resolution of what is wrong inside our Planning
Department is being ignored and instead, this whole focus is only on the violations
that are occurring. One (1) of the statements that was made had done with the
prosecution and revocation of the permitees, but the most important problem here is
not that the permitees did the things that they are doing; the problem is that they
were allowed to do it by omission and commission. Brer Rabbit is the resolution to
this thing and the rabbit is now getting tossed back into the tar pit. The faster this
gets resolved, the sooner we will have to face all the expenses that are going to
come. Thank you, Chair. Without a doubt we are going to be sued by landowners
because by omission and commission, we allowed them or encouraged them do the
things that we are now complaining about. The limiting our liability in this is best
accomplished by moving as rapidly as possible, and I applaud the Chair for giving
the Planning Department time to get their house in order, but I do not agree with it
whatsoever. I think they have had a very long time to get their house in order and
it is not. I do not see— and this is not a criticism of the current management of the
Planning Department, but I do not see them having a plan that is going to actually
lead to a resolution of the whole thing. My encouragement is getting this over with
as fast as possible. So far, Mel and Gary's plan of the three (3) person Committee
seems to be the way to push this forward the fastest but procedurally, it is up to you
guys and all the internal, political battles and all the rest. Cleaning up the issues
that caused this to occur should be our focus, not the going after the people who are
going to argue in court with a lot of legal support, that they are innocent victims,
which I do not believe. That is how the world runs. This whole thing has cut our
losses. We are not getting out of this cleanly or inexpensively. Cut our losses. That
COUNCIL MEETING 91 JUNE 12, 2013
is my two (2) sense today. That is all I have got to contribute, two (2) sense. Thank
you.
Chair Furfaro: Lonnie, thank you. The fact that my
grandchildren's favorite book is `firer Rabbit." Anybody else wishes to testify before
I call this meeting back to order?
JONATHAN CHUN, Belles Graham Proudfoot Wilson & Chun, LLP: Thank
you, Chair. For the record, Jonathan Chun. I have been listening to the discussion
of the Council and the public testimony on this with interest. I wanted to say
straight forth that if anybody asked questions, I have not talked with the County
Attorney on this, other than ask a few questions on Resolution just this afternoon
and I have not talked with anyone from the Planning Department regarding this
matter. I want to just raise a couple of things for your consideration. Just to make
it clear, I do represent a few landowners so no suspicion out there. Let me throw
out a few things in terms of your consideration. This consideration involves the
investigation. The Charter clearly says that the investigation involves alleged gross
misconduct or criminal, the individual is entitled to basically have an attorney and
to call witnesses and cross examine. On behalf of a Planning Department Official,
whether the employee or Director, that can come back, because they can call their
own witnesses and they can call their own directors, but more importantly in terms
of what is going on, there is an ongoing process right now involving the TVRs. You
cannot have an investigation of that person, or it makes it difficult to have an
investigation of that person and then ask him do his job at the same time because
you have to remember, there is a provision in our Charter called the Ethics
Provision, too, that prevents this person, whoever that employee or officer is, to take
any action that might be for his own personal benefit. You are raising an inference
at this point in time if you are investigating anybody in the Planning Department.
At the same time, he is supposed to be taking an action on these TVRs. You are
putting them in an awkward position. On the one hand, if he takes the action to
find that person of find the person is guilty of a TVR violation, then you are
basically asking him to sign his own warrant that he did something wrong because
it should not have been granted in the first place. Of course on the other hand, if he
makes the determination of his own investigation saying, "No, everything was
proper," then you raise the inference, of the guy as if he is trying to feather his own
bed. Is it an ethical violation for him to take action on these applications that he is
being investigated on? I think that is where you have concerns from some officers
that come up, that it might put a stop to provision. I think that is one of the things
you should consider. This person that you are investigating or persons are being
the same person or persons that you are going to ask to follow through and
determine whether there is a violation or not right now. That is all I have, please
consider that.
Chair Furfaro: Jonathan, hold on. We may have questions
for you. Thank you for making reference to our July 12th court date and we will
leave it at that. Mr. Rapozo has a question.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you,
Jonathan. I do not understand— you are inferring that we are investigating a
person. We are not. This is specific to the process.
Mr. Chun: Okay. I could be wrong on that because my
only question is what does the Resolution say?
COUNCIL MEETING 92 JUNE 12, 2013
Mr. Rapozo: I bet "they" told you that too?
Mr. Chun: No, they did not but from the discussion, I
gathered that there is concern. Whether they are rightful concerns or not...
Mr. Rapozo: Maybe we can give Mr. Chun a copy of the
Resolution. Maybe that will help him because this is not about investigating a
person. I do not know why everybody is flustered with that. It has nothing do with
a person. This is the process, which is our function.
Mr. Chun: Right.
Mr. Rapozo: When those findings go back, it goes back to
the Planning Department or whoever to take the necessary action at that point. At
that point, due process rights and Union representation all fall into play. That is
not the focus of this Resolution. It is to investigate the process.
Mr. Chun: I understand.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Jonathan, thank you very much. JoAnn, do
you have a question?
Ms. Yukimura: Yes. While the process may not involve
investigating a person— although is not clear because there is no clear Scope of
Work. Even so, in the proceedings it could lead to a criminal matter, then would
not your not issues come forth?
Mr. Chun: That is the concern primarily and that is if
the investigation of the process could lead to that person either providing
information against himself or against other people, they might— you are raising
an inference whether they are trying to protect their own interests in these
proceedings. At the same time, they are trying to take an action against TVR
applications. If you can see that potential happening— I just want to bring that
awareness to the Council, that there is a potential there. I think the words of this
Council and everybody in this Council was concerned that, "Let us get something
done and do it quickly." I do not know disagree with that at all. If you need to take
action, take action. Do it quickly, but taking action just for action's sake might not
be the best way of doing it or at least know what the problems might become ahead
of time and try to dress them as they come.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you, Jonathan.
Mr. Chun: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Anyone else wishing to testify? If not, I will
call the meeting back to order. We have a motion and second on the Resolution
amended twice. Mr. Rapozo?
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
COUNCIL MEETING 93 JUNE 12, 2013
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess you can tell
by my tone that this is probably one of the most frustrating and irritating days of
my ten (10) years on the County Council. I do not know even know where to start,
but let me start by saying this is a public safety issue. This is not a TVR issue.
This is not a landowner issue. This is a public safety issue. This issue was
intended to resolve that issue and at least find out what has happened over the
many, many years. There has been a lot of talk about liability. "What if..." When I
was young, you know how kids keep asking the dad, "Dad, what if this...what if
this?" I remember my dad told me once—and I may get scolded for this, but this is
what he said, "Son, if your aunty had testicles, would she be your uncle?" That is
totally politically correct. The message was that we do not know "if." That is why
we are doing an investigation. We do not know what is going to be found. The
reason we do not know is because the Planning Department and the Administration
has decided not to provide it to us—for years. We sit here today and say, "Okay, we
will give them more time." That is fine. I respect that from my colleagues, and that
is fine, but just remember that some of you were here eight (8) years ago— I think it
was just you Chair, me, and JoAnn. It was in my first term and you talked about
this prior when Mr. Heu was up here and I proposed an audit of Public Works.
Mr. Heu sat up here and said, "Please give us a chance. We will do an internal
audit." This Council believed them and they never did the audit. As you know,
nothing was done. I have personally given many chances and numerous requests to
the Planning Department, numerous files that were sent over, requests for
investigations, and so forth. None returned to my satisfaction, anyway. I feel this
today—I do not think we have our own legal representation. Every step of the way,
we have been told why we cannot do this. This Resolution has been through the
County Attorney's Office and today, we hear the County Attorney and
Councilmember Yukimura raising legal questions saying, "You know what, maybe
we can look into it and defer it." No more deferrals, Mr. Chair. I hope we vote on
up or down because I am over these deferrals and more excuses and excuses. I have
been ignored. I have been told excuses. We sat here a few weeks ago and outright
refused to show up, "No, we are not coming. The County Attorney said, "Our Office
has advised the Planning Director not to be here." We asked why and they said,
"Well, because there is pending litigation or there is some investigation you guys
might be doing and we do not want..." We said, "Okay, have him come here." They
said, "Well, if he comes he is just going to plead the Fifth." Never in my career have
I heard that, but okay, that is fine. We have been threatened with the Fifth
Amendment. You heard it for yourselves today, ladies and gentlemen. I know
numerous Councilmembers and members of the public were told that if we do a
3.17, the records will be frozen. That is a lie. I am bold enough to say it is a lie
because it is a lie. You can sugar coat it or massage it however you want to
convince this Council, or at least four (4) members of this Council, that we do not
have the right to do this or you are going to cause all kinds of havoc in this County.
You can convince four (4) and sounds like you did. Congratulations, but it does not
make this problem goes away. In fact, it intensifies it because I will tell you what
the public will see. The public will see a County Council that is trying to do their
job and a County Council that has been advised time, and time again for why we
cannot do it. I do not blame my colleagues for not voting for this today because they
are responding to what they were told by the Administration; plain and simple.
They are not investigators. They have not worked in Law Enforcement like I have,
and I am blessed to have that opportunity but it creates this extra problem, this
frustration for me because I know a lot of what is being said is not true. It is going
to stop this investigation from moving forward. That is the frustration. I do not
know what we are afraid of, but I know one (1) thing. Mr. Sykos, you said we had
COUNCIL MEETING 94 JUNE 12, 2013
two (2) options. We have three (3). I will tell you what the third option is and I
mean this in no way shape or form as a threat to my colleagues, but I will tell you
this. You can mark my word. If this Resolution does not pass today, I will send a
formal request to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) because I am over it
already. I am tired of being told why we cannot do this. You guys are worried
about cost and expense— fine, Councilmember Yukimura. Do not worry about
anymore because the FBI will pay. "Mel, do not do this because what we have done
so far has gotten them to move"— yes, to do a PowerPoint. Some of these cases are
ready to prosecute. Some of these cases are outright fraud. Not one (1) memo came
back to us saying, "Hey, you know what County Council, we take your concerns
seriously. We are looking at Tax Map Key A, B, C, and D. We believe there are
some egregious violations and this is what we are going to do...we are going to do
all of these things and form super team and we are going to look at this. But you
know what guys; we need a new database, a tracking system, or something more
because right now we are not capable." That is just not good enough for me. This is
not an issue that started this year or last year; this issue has been around for many,
many years and I have submitted the requests that have been ignored. You
understand why I am so frustrated. We have never put it on the agenda. We have
never done that, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair has a policy that we are not going to
intimidate, humiliate, and embarrass people on this floor and work through what do
you call it..."the protocol." I did that. For those of you that think I just created
thing because I am upset and I am witch hunting— understand that I have sent
numerous— and any one of you that wants the record, let me know. I have sent
numerous case specific requests to the Planning Department with photos, only to be
ignored. I am at the end of my rope. There are no more options for me. It was this
Resolution or the FBI because I know that the FBI is not too concerned about the
politics. They are not too concerned about what is going to happen about due
process. No, they are going to investigate. I believe they are going to investigate
well. If we have got people in our County that are guilty, I am sorry. But
everything that I have heard today from our advisors, the way I interpreted it was,
"Hey, just let it go. It might go away." That is how I took it and forgive me if I am
wrong, but that is how I got it. Once someone told me "perception is reality." I am
frustrated today. I can count. I know this is going down and I do not think this is
going to pass today but believe me; I am not going to stop today. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Vice Chair, you wanted a moment on the
floor, and you have something to introduce?
Ms. Nakamura: Yes, I have a Floor Amendment.
Chair Furfaro: I will get you next, Mr. Hooser.
Ms. Nakamura: I wanted to ask Staff to circulate it so that
everyone has a copy of it. What this does is it adds a line—a sentence to the final
section of the proposed Resolution. It adds to the current sentence "the committee
shall at its conclusion make appropriate findings and recommendations as
warranted." It just takes that a little further by articulating "recommendations
may include measures to improve the County's enforcement of TVR in floodplain
ordinances, measures to improve coordination among departments, potential
changes to the TVR Ordinance to improve enforcement, the addition of County
staffing resources to fully enforce the TVR Ordinance, and follow-up regarding any
alleged misconduct." This is just because if we go through this route; through a 3.17
investigation, I think we should have very specific recommendations on when the
COUNCIL MEETING 95 JUNE 12, 2013
investigation is done, "How do we fix the problem?" I think that is where the focus
should be.
Ms. Nakamura moved to amend Resolution No. 2013-55, Draft 1 as
circulated, as shown in the Floor Amendment which is attached hereto as
Attachment 5, seconded by Ms. Yukimura.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Mr. Bynum, do you have further
discussion on the Amendment?
Mr. Bynum: I think this is a thoughtful Amendment that
just brings more clarity to anyone who would read it about what the end game is
and so I am in support.
Chair Furfaro: Any further comments? If not, I would like
to do a roll call vote on Amendment number three (3).
The motion to amend Resolution No. 2013-55, Draft 1 as circulated, was
then put, and carried by the following vote:
FOR AMENDMENT: Bynum, Hooser, Kagawa, Nakamura,
Rapozo, Yukimura, Furfaro TOTAL – 7,
AGAINST AMENDMENT: None TOTAL – 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL – 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL – 0.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much. Okay, the
Amendment is the third one passed. Now we are going around on the main motion
as amended. Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: I appreciate the discussion and the passion.
I want to tell you that I do not always agree with all of my Councilmembers, but I
really like this Council because there are seven (7) independent members. You can
see that in your votes. They line up really differently, depending on the issue.
Councilmember Rapozo is right. This is primarily a public safety issue. We have
been really patient. I take this very seriously that whenever we would invoke this
power of the Council, I did not think I would ever propose it in my career, but this
warrants it. It starts as a public safety issue, but it continues as a credibility issue.
The credibility of this County and our ability to control our own destiny, despite the
pressures of high powered expensive people that can hire great attorneys, despite
the pressures of all— I will not go there— this is important. I implore my
colleagues to make this a 7:0 vote. It is in the Committee of the Whole and we have
a capable Chair and good people. We know how to do this. This group knows how
to do this. I believe it is our responsibility.
Mr. Hooser: Yes, I want to speak in support, clearly. I
want to thank Councilmember Rapozo for sticking with it and his diligence and
working with the County Attorney's Office and coming up with this Resolution.
Councilmember Bynum's suggestion— I support it because I think it is important
that we have as much faith and confidence of all the members to move this forward.
I also appreciate Councilmember Nakamura's Amendment, which further ensures
that at the end of the day that productive things come from this effort. I would also
implore upon my colleagues to make it a 7:0 vote. I think this is very important and
I think it is about equity. It is about public trust. To me, it is the really big thing.
COUNCIL MEETING 96 JUNE 12, 2013
It is about public trust, and restoring faith and confidence of who we are as a
County and a Council. There are lots of talk about public process and due process.
My question is "who looks out for the public interest?" We have attorneys looking
out for employees' interest and the County's interest, but what about the public? I
believe that it is particularly our responsibility to look out for the interest of the
public. This is very, very important. Again, it is about equity. It is about trust. I
just urge all of my colleagues to look deep and consider supporting this vote with an
affirmative vote of and trusting. We talk about trust and trusting each other,
because it is a seven (7) member committee and seven (7) members responsible for
taking this forward. Nothing will happen without consent of the majority. Anyone
who is afraid or concerned about it going in the wrong direction should be assured
by that. Again, I want to just encourage people to vote in support. Thank you,
Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Anyone else wishing to speak?
JoAnn, you have the floor.
Ms. Yukimura: After everyone has the discussion, I am going
to propose that we defer this matter until October 9th, Chair. I think it is good to
keep this possibility alive, but I also feel that if the end in mind is prosecution,
revocation, fines, and getting this TVR situation in order, we need to support the
Planning Department in its ninety (90) day plan. I would actually rather spend the
money that we would spend on an investigation, which I think could delay the
ongoing investigations. I would rather spend the money to support the Planning
Department with resources that are necessary to go forward. It is not "let it the go
and it might go away," but it is having a deadline that is within this year, that
requires action or else this investigation can be invoked. I am sorry, but I expect a
really clear Scope of Work in any authorizing resolution. I also think there is a very
strong legal question about whether the Council or an investigating committee can
authorize a Special Counsel or investigator to do the work. We can be working on
these things in the next ninety (90) days. I think our main mission is to clear up
and properly enforce this TVR matter. I was the one who initiated the first law,
and it took several years to get the first law in place. It was not a perfect law,
partly because the Planning Department refused to work with us on the Council as
we were trying to develop the law. It brought something to a closure, and it needs
to be enforced properly. That is our goal. That is what I want to support. I think
we need to let the Planning Department do its work in next ninety (90) days.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Kagawa.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is my toughest
decision on the Council up to this date. I even spent nights not being able to sleep
because I am thinking about what I am going to do today. It has been a tough one
because a lot of times I see things the same way as Mr. Rapozo. We are not just
colleagues here, we are friends. I know how passionate he is to get the resolution to
this matter. I feel the same as him; however, I feel that the 3.17 may not be the
best way to fix the problem. My gut tells me that the 3.17 will delay the problem.
That is just how I feel. As much as I want to support the Resolution and support
the people that have supported a lot of my issues but on this one, I just cannot
support it at this time. I want to give the Planning Department the ninety (90)
days to show me something. It has to be significant. I am taking their word for
granted that they are aware of the problem, they know what they need to do to fix
it, and that they are working diligently on fixing the problem. That is what I heard
last week. Some of you may feel like it is not good enough, "same old, same old," but
COUNCIL MEETING 97 JUNE 12, 2013
when you sit in this chair and make the tough decision to say "yay" or "nay" on
something that is so important. It is a lot more difficult, so today I have go with my
gut and will not be supporting the Resolution. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Vice Chair.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you. This has been a very frustrating
process for me as well. I am looking back on some of the testimony that came
before this Council in 2009, from Protect Our Neighborhood `Ghana, citing the
concerns about enforcement and working through the system, talking to us, talking
to the Administration and yet, nothing was done until the threat of an investigation
was on the table. At that time, we have a plan of action. We have an interagency
committee. It is very frustrating, but the other part is that finally some action is
being taken. This issue is being addressed. In doing my own research about what
has been happening is that there are fifteen (15) contested case hearings because
applicants do not like the decisions made by the Planning Department regarding
TVRs, renewals, and special permit applications. Some of them have been
withdrawn. Some of them have gone to court. Six (6) cases are now in Fifth Circuit
Court because the Planning Department who are working with the County
Attorneys is working to try to address these issues. Of those, two (2) voluntary
dismissed after motions filed, one (1) withdrawn, and one (1) referred back to the
Planning Commission. There is progress being made. It takes time. We definitely
have a lack of resources in the County Attorney's Office, which is one of my
conclusions if we want to get serious about enforcement. I see actions being taken,
and I believe that the Chair's outline of deliverables over the next three (3)
months— July 17th, when we get the update of the cases pending in Court, July
31st, when the Planning Department will give us an update on the revocation cases.
On August 28th, we will get an update on the status of the public hearings. On
September 25th, we are going to get the total picture of where we are at after the
three (3) month period. To me, there is action being taken and I want to encourage
that. I think I will support the deferral to October 9th.
Chair Furfaro: Does anybody want to say anything before I
speak? JoAnn, go ahead.
Ms. Yukimura: I just want to really acknowledge
Councilmember Rapozo and Councilmember Hooser for introducing this Resolution
because as several Councilmembers have said, it has clearly provoked action on the
part of the Administration. I also want to say that I feel the Administration's
responses to Councilmember Rapozo's repeated inquiries and requests for action
over the years was really unacceptable. Hopefully, the Administration knows how
counterproductive that kind of response or lack of response is. I really do feel that
the introduction of this Resolution has been very positive up to now and I think, I
hope that we can watch its work being done, perhaps not in the way that
Councilmember Rapozo anticipated, but hopefully, we will see very clear and
positive action in terms of enforcement over the ninety (90) days.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Hooser, and then Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Hooser: Chair, I did not realize we were going to
have a second round, but since we are, I will speak a second time also. To me, this
is not about ninety (90) days from now, okay? I am happy that the Planning
Department came as a result of the pressure that this Council put on them and
came up with a nice PowerPoint and a nice plan and have talked about benchmarks
COUNCIL MEETING 98 JUNE 12, 2013
and deadlines. I am very happy and I want to see them meet those. I am talking
about why when you look in the files of a person who got a TVR permit worth
possibly millions of dollars to their property values and to their monthly income—
you look in the files and what? "There is nothing there, but they got a permit.
Wait, wait, there is a piece of paper, but it is not signed. Here is another piece of
paper but it is not dated. Here is a piece of paper that says they were getting a
Homeowner's Exemption, the same time they were claiming that they were vacation
renting it." It just goes on and on, and on. We will never know the answers to these
questions unless we do an investigation. We will never know why these files are
empty or full of misinformation. We will never know if that allegation is even true
or not. That is the bottom line. It has been alleged that what I just said is true and
we will never know whether it is true or not, unless we look into this and take our
responsibilities as a Council to determine that. I am happy and I am pleased that
we are moving forward. I am happy and I am pleased that the intent of the
Planning Department and this Administration is to enforce the TVR Ordinance. I
am not happy that we may never know why these decisions were made or not made.
Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have sensed some
frustration from Mr. Hooser. I have settled down now, but you just pumped me
back up. Obviously, I can count and obviously this is not going to pass. I just want
to remind my colleagues if there is a hope that you reconsider? A few budgets ago,
we provided the personnel necessary. This Council provided funding for two (2)
Inspectors, specifically for TVR enforcement. The last Budget, this Council
provided funding for two (2) contract investigators, specifically for TVR
enforcement. The Planning Department decided not to hire and the Planning
Department decided to use those funds for something else. What does that tell each
and every one of us at this table? If you are a visual type of person, let me explain
what it tells me...we do not care what you guys want. Mr. Hooser is exactly correct.
At the end of ninety (90) days, they may have had some success. Of course I can
guarantee you that they will come back and ask for an extension. I will guarantee
that they will come back and say, "Well, if we go after them, we are going to stand a
big chance of being sued. I tell you what; this is just my prediction today that we
are going to get a recommendation within the next six (6) months to amend our
laws to allow them all. That is what I am going to predict. After they go through
all of these and come up with all of the legal reasons why, they will come back and
say, "Council, our recommendation is do what Maui did and just legalize everything,
so we do not have to worry about this because we created such a mess that let us
just legalize it." That is my prediction. I may be wrong but I hope I am. I am
hoping there is a glimmer of hope. I count three (3) and we need one (1) more, but
we have not heard from the Chair yet. I beg you to please reconsider because like
Mr. Hooser said, we will never know what happened with that TVR that got
permitted. We will never know what happened and why that structure that the guy
jumped off and killed himself—why was that allowed? We will never know because
the ninety (90) day plan does not visit that. It only says "this is what we are going
to do, so Council, do not worry about what we did in the past. This is what we are
going to do in future." I am uncomfortable with that. Like I said, I respect the
votes as they fall and I can understand Mr. Kagawa. He is new. He was not here
all of these years, but I think the rest of you know the stresses, the trials, and the
tribulations that we have been through with the Planning Department and the
Administration, and being told every reason why we cannot do what is our Charter
function. Anyway, that was my last chance, Mr. Chair. Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING 99 JUNE 12, 2013
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: I will take my last chance. A blank stare is
not an answer. There are levels to this issue about public safety and building codes,
but the thing that just smacks me in the face is that we went through all of this—
the Administration came to this Council and said, "Hey, you gave us a law that we
cannot enforce. It needs to be changed." We worked really hard to make those
changes and then we were told, "Now we know how to proceed and do this properly.
Now you have given us the legal tools that we need to do this properly." The
Council asked, "What do you need to do this right? We have been talking about this
for ten (10) years now so let us do it right. What do you need? You have two (2)
people. We gave you two (2). We will give you two (2) more. What do you need?"
Let us be clear that, that law we passed, the key issue was "do not come and try to
get a permit if you have not been operating." We finally said no new TVRs outside
of the Visitor Destination Areas (VDA) at March 7, 2008. No new ones period. If
you want to apply for this permit, which gives you a special privilege over and above
your neighbors...if you want to get this nonconforming use, you must show us. The
Law says you shall give General Excise (GE) receipts or reservation records. There
is a whole bunch of ways to demonstrate that you were actually doing that. That is
so simple. Some of the issues are complex, but it is like "show me this receipt."
"Did you get it? Yes or no?" "Did I have this? Yes or no?" In the blog today, it said
of the twenty-five (25) cases, not one (1) document exists. I keep waiting for the
Planning Department to say, "No, that is not true. They are wrong." What I got
was a blank stare. I am like, "Please, tell me this is not true." There are a lot of
good things happening. I think the Planning Department is very much on the
mend. I support the current leadership. I think a lot of good things were happening
and that the things that Ms. Nakamura, was referring to are cases where they are
doing what we would all expect them to do. The problem is that this whole giant
group that nothing—and Mr. Hooser, you gave the best testimony of the day. You
are right. If we do not do, we will never know. Maybe they will come back here in
six (6) months and say, "Hey look at how good we have got this going. We are
contesting these. We really are doing a good enforcement job." I believe they will
eventually get there. What about all of these other ones? How are we going to deal
with that? After all of this history, how did this happen? We know how to do this.
I hope there are four (4) votes.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. I gave everyone an opportunity to
speak twice. I am going to give my commentary now. I think last week I have to
tell you that I was a little bit surprised on July 5th. It took the Planning
Department so long to share with us information about their process. We finally got
some unanswered questions answered, and we finally found ourselves with real
honest dialogue about personal deficiency— gentlemen, if the two (2) of you are
going to speak, I will ask to you go outside. If not, please be silent. They finally
told us about the deficiencies that we saw all along, especially personnel and so
forth. I want to reiterate what I said. I am expecting everyone from Buildings to
the Prosecutor's Office, to the Planning Department to understand that there is a
priority here to get this done right. Right now and up to now, I have not seen the
responsibility taken on this very important issue that was part of our General Plan
ten (10) years ago. It was spelt out ten (10) years ago that we were going to begin a
call-to-action with stakeholders. It was called out thirteen (13) years ago in the
General Plan that this needed to be resolved. That is extremely serious. I want you
to know that I am struggling with my vote on this, but should you get the ninety
(90) days, I want to let you know that I am expecting a monthly report... posted on
COUNCIL MEETING 100 JUNE 12, 2013
the agenda. I want you to know personally I am going to the Planning Commission
to let them know from the Chairman of the Council, the failures here. I want you to
know if we do not get to the right place by October 9th, I am going to ask myself the
question, "Would we miss a few of you if you were gone?" There are ways that the
Council can be involved in that. It is spelt out just as clear in the Charter of how we
can give input about performance reviews on obligations that we have to enforce the
rules here. I am raising my voice because I am often told that I have patience, and I
have been very patient here. I have always been told that the situation is that this
is a very independent thinking Council. We do not have four (4) of one (1) kind here
that you can take to Las Vegas. Everybody votes independently here, based on
what we think needs to be done. Respect is shared equally. You want the respect
from this Council about doing your jobs, then you need to respond respectfully to the
expectations we have on your job performances. In Buildings and the Prosecutor's
Office, they need to be more involved. They need to be welcomed to be involved. I
am concerned about Mr. Hooser's comments about the file, but I think it will all
come out as you start reviewing them because hopefully, if that is the truth, we will
see the deterioration in the number of permits that are allowed. There will be some
natural attrition. On June 5th, you folks came forward and you were really
forthcoming. I started to see that the Planning Department had a critical path and
some action, as well as the fact that County Attorney's Office was dealing with some
very delicate court cases for us. I want to tell you, you have to move on this, if this
Resolution does not pass. When we go to the October 9th date, it will be on agenda.
I can guarantee you that. I just have to say one (1) thing, "No guts, no glory." Go
after it, fix it, and let us know. There will be no reconsiderations for any extension.
We laid out something that needs to happen and we need to have the Resolution
come back after we see some results. We see some real responsibility being taken.
Bottom line, I do not think there has been a lot of respect shown to this Council.
That has to change and it is about building relationships. That is why I am where I
am at. I do not want to give up on building our relationships to do the right thing
for the right reason, for the right people, which had Mr. Rapozo and Mr. Hooser
have spelled out. Those people are the citizens of this County. Let us do the right
thing for them. If this Resolution fails, I hope you take my words seriously. This
will automatically pop up on the agenda in each month going forward for both in the
public session and in Executive Session. There will be no extensions. There will be
no resolve for any extension, based on the fact I would have the Resolution if it does
not pass today automatically back on the agenda by October 9th.
Ms. Yukimura moved to defer Resolution No. 2013-55, Draft 1 to the
October 9, 2013 Council Meeting, seconded by Mr. Kagawa.
Chair Furfaro: A motion to defer has precedent over any
previous motion. We have a motion to defer and a second so there is no discussion
on a deferral either. Roll call, please.
The motion to defer Resolution No. 2013-55, Draft 1 to October 9, 2013 was
then put, and carried by the following vote:
FOR DEFERRAL: Kagawa, Nakamura, Yukimura, Furfaro TOTAL — 4,
AGAINST DEFERRAL: Bynum, Hooser, Rapozo TOTAL — 3,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
Chair Furfaro: This was date specific to October 9th. This
Resolution is deferred until then. To the Planning Department, although I made
COUNCIL MEETING 101 JUNE 12, 2013
some commentary, expect to see yourselves on the agenda every month. We are
going to take a ten (10) minute recess.
There being no objections, the meeting was recessed at 5:02 p.m.
The meeting was reconvened at 5:15 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: We are back in session. We are only five (5)
members now going forward. Mr. Hooser is attending the Koke`e Advisory
Committee Meeting that was scheduled at 4:00 p.m., so I can vouch for his tardiness
there. He has just left and Mr. Bynum is excused for the rest of the day. We will be
getting his circulated note afterwards. We also have some items that are time
sensitive. In particular, C 2013-223 and C 2013-224, as we have representative
attorneys in the audience that want to be present for these items if you could read
those.
(Mr. Hooser was noted as excused at 5:02 p.m.)
*Mr. Bynum announced to the gallery that he was leaving for the day and
would not be returning for the remainder of the meeting. No excuse note was
circulated. Mr. Bynum was recused from C 2013-223 and C 2013-224.
There being no objections, C 2013-223 was taken out of the order.
COMMUNICATIONS:
C 2013-223 Communication (06/06/2013) from the County Attorney,
requesting Council approval to expend up to $11,000 for Special Counsel's continued
services provided for Defendant Shaylene Iseri-Carvalho in Tim Bynum vs. County
of Kaua`i, et al., Civil No. CV12-00523 RLP (United States District Court), and
related matters: Mr. Kagawa moved to approve C 2013-223, seconded by
Ms. Yukimura.
Chair Furfaro: Motion to approve and second. Is there
comment? Come right up, Shaylene.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
SHAYLE NE ISERI-CARVALHO: Good afternoon Shaylene
Iseri-Carvalho, former Prosecuting Attorney named as a Defendant in the matter
just provided. I wanted to inform the Council that on Monday, I had an opportunity
to speak with Bob Katz who is the current Special Counsel appointed to represent
me in my official capacity and was advised that he was unaware this item was on
the agenda. I inquired why there was a reason for a request of eleven thousand
dollar ($11,000) specifically, and for what purpose. I believe that any time an item
becomes before the Council, there should be a rational relationship between the
money that is requested with the service that is being provided. At least that
information should be something that is provided with the person of interest, which
is myself, who is a named party in this suit. He informed me he was not aware and
as this Council knows it was only I believe three weeks ago or so when there was
another item requesting and on the agenda it showed fifty thousand dollars
($50,000) and I again spoke with my County Attorney... I spoke again with the
Special Counsel and again there was an error and my conversations with Mr. Katz
indicated there was no written request and as I said he had not put anything in
COUNCIL MEETING 102 JUNE 12, 2013
writing requesting additional funds. Now while there may be a need for additional
funds, clearly, that should be articulated by the Special Counsel and not by the
County Attorney's Office because it is a Special Counsel that is representing in my
official capacity. I would like the Council also to know that I have never spoken
with Richard Nakamura, who is also the Attorney who represents the County of
Kaua`i. Now I believe there is a case that says when you sue the County of Kaua`i,
it encompasses all of its employees under the scope of the County of Kaua`i.
However, in this case it was filed as an official capacity by name, Sheilah Miyake
and myself, as well as the County of Kaua`i. While there appears to be three parties
of interest, there is really only one, the County of Kaua`i. I have never spoken with
Richard Nakamura and I have informed this Council what I believe were
improprieties of the County Attorney's actions in matters involving myself. He had
previously openly advocated and contributed funds for my opponent's success in the
prior OPA Election and his wife got hired almost immediately after the Election as
a Receptionist for the Prosecuting Attorney. Said position was never posted and no
one else was permitted to apply. She is currently working there as a Receptionist.
He negotiated a settlement in another matter and ordered Special Counsel and in
this case, was Bob Katz to stop any further investigation in a case involving his
wife's boss. The County Attorney also failed to respond timely in the pending
matter in the Bynum case. The matter indicated that there was twenty (20) days to
respond and he was aware of the service of the complaint and never filed or made
any kind of motion for an extension within the twenty (20) days and, in fact in
December I paid for my own trip to fly to O`ahu to speak with Bob Katz, because it
was imperative that they file a motion. My Attorney, who is present here, Richard
Wilson, who represents me in my personal capacity, also had requested assistance
for an extension of time to file the motion in my personal behalf. The County
Attorney also refused to authorize funds to allow a small expenditure for airfare to
be present at both depositions that totaled almost fifteen (15) hours and therefore
my Counsel was unable to inquire during the time of...time of taking depositions of
anything that could assist with the representation of the County in that matter. So
I ask here that really, it appears there is an established pattern of impropriety by
the County Attorney's Office. This Council has at all times advocated for
transparency, it has advocated for openness, and it has advocated following the
Sunshine Law. Mr. Bynum had clearly wanted this matter to be public. He had
posted the complaint on his website. There was a link to the complaint on his
Attorney's website and he posted and sent out via his Attorney's press releases to
the various media outlets as well to the various television and newspapers. Of
course all of this was done right before the Election. Clearly it appeared this was
strategically timed, and in closing I would like to say that given the actions that
were done by Mr. Bynum... this is clearly a unique situation, where you have a
Councilmember suing the County of Kaua`i, suing the Planning Department, and
suing another Department Head, which is the Prosecuting Attorney. Given this
unique situation, where we have a Councilmember trying to decide the fate of other
Department Agencies, as well as a colleague of themselves, I think it is imperative
that henceforth all matters involving Mr. Bynum and other Agencies in this specific
Civil Case, that all of those matters be held in open session. That way the public
has not only a perception of what happens, but an actual recording of what is being
discussed and handled in cases involving public officials. We have always strived
again to have that kind of transparency and I believe in light of the allegations and
serious allegations that have been made in this matter, that all matters involving
this case and I am one who is involved in this case, that any discussions that the
Councilmembers have regarding this case with any of the Attorneys or among
themselves that be completely in open session. The public has the opportunity to
evaluate the case and evaluate whether the settlements are coming up
COUNCIL MEETING 103 JUNE 12, 2013
appropriately. As I have indicated earlier, there is absolutely no basis for
Mr. Bynum's suit. Now when we look at what has been the cause of many of the
problems in this case, it has to be what is the role of the County Attorney? Has this
Council ever inquired as to the role of the County Attorney when Special Counsel
has been procured? The County Attorney has in writing stated to me that it is the
role of the Special Counsel is to step in the shoes of the County Attorney and if so,
this is clearly a substitution and not a supplementation of services, especially in a
conflict situation or one involving a public figure, who sits before this body.
Chair Furfaro: Shay, that was six (6) minutes, but I will
give you time to summarize.
Ms. Iseri-Carvalho: I just have two (2) more paragraphs. Or is
the role of Special Counsel to give the perception that the Special Counsel... I mean
is it the role of the County Attorney to give the perception that the Special Counsel
appeared to act independently, but if the decision is different than what the County
Attorney wants, like what happened with Special Counsel Gary Slovin, then it is
the County Attorney's role to criticize the Special Counsel and also to threaten to
refuse to pay its Attorney's fees. Is it the role of the County Attorney to control the
purse strings of what is paid to Special Counsel and by doing so in effect control the
trial strategy? Again done in this case where the County Attorney refused to pay
for airline tickets to assist Special Counsel? Is it the role of the County Attorney to
call up the Special Counsel and request the Special Counsel to stop investigating a
matter that they are currently setting depositions in, because he was now the
primary party involved in the settlement negotiations involving his wife's boss?
Thirdly I would say that there have been depositions that have been completed by
Bynum and Mr. Delaplane and I believe it is this Council's duty for it to do its own
due diligence and to request a copy to clearly show there was no wrongdoing in my
official capacity and personal capacity. There is clearly no merit to Mr. Bynum's
suit and I would like this resolved as soon as possible. However, I do believe there
has to be a rational relationship between funding and there has to be
communication between the Special Counsel, between the County Attorneys, and
between myself as to why there are moneys that are being requested and what
services are being procured for those monies requested. My personal Attorney
Richard Wilson is present also to answer any questions as he was present during
the depositions involving Mr. Bynum as well as Mr. Delaplane and also is involved
in motions that are currently in the process of being filed.
Chair Furfaro: Shay, thank you for very much for your
testimony. As you know, we are going into ES-646 and ES-647, and I will raise a
few questions during that session. Do we have comments or questions for you?
Mr. Kagawa, and then Councilwoman Yukimura.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you Shay for your testimony. I will
refrain from asking more questions than this one, because I am concerned about
where my questions may lead. However, on this item right here they are asking for
eleven thousand dollars ($11,000) for Special Counsel. For ES-646, are you for or
against us approving that?
Ms. Iseri-Carvalho: Clearly whatever funds that are being
appropriated for motions to dismiss is something that I would desire, but I do find it
interesting that there was a request for funding just several weeks ago and for an
additional fifty thousand dollars ($50,000). Then there is this request for eleven
thousand dollars ($11,000). Normally there is funding that is requested of a round
COUNCIL MEETING 104 JUNE 12, 2013
number, ten thousand dollars ($10,000), fifty thousand dollars ($50,000), and if
there was any tie or rational relationship to the request for funding clearly I would
advocate for that. Any moneys that are appropriated for motions to dismiss that
would eliminate any further cost of litigation is definitely what I am advocating for,
but I would like the Council to be informed that moneys that I do not want and I
want the Council to be responsible when they are allocating moneys that they are
clearly aware of how these moneys are being spent and where they are being spent
and how much money we have already spent? The public has its perception that we
are continually coming forward to ask for Attorney's fees. Then you go into
Executive Session and there is maybe some settlement and nobody knows what the
facts behind the settlement are. What are the facts being discussed? I find that
offensive as a member of public that people are not aware what these moneys are
being spent for and there has been an astronomical amount of money being spent.
Why is it if this was not a conflict case, why was not the fact that the County
Attorney who claims to have the best litigation team taking on more cases at trail?
How many cases has the County Attorney taken for litigation that saved this
County money? Those are the basic questions that I would ask, because these are
the questions that the public are continually asking themselves and I think it is
responsible for this Council to take an advocacy role to ensure that our taxpayers'
money are spent for appropriate causes.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you.
Ms. Yukimura: Hi, Shay. I wondered whether you have
discussed with Mr. Katz or any of the other County Attorneys whether open
discussion of the case would be harmful to the County's case?
Ms. Iseri-Carvalho: I have not discussed whether open
discussions would be harmful to the County's case. It is my position that as a public
official, that I should not be advocating for anything less than that, that the public
should be present to hear, especially when it involves public figures. I am saying
this is a unique case and I would not advocate this necessarily in every case, but a
matter that involves two public officials that these items need to be discussed in
open session.
Ms. Yukimura: The question is about this particular case
and my concern that we would have to hear first from the Attorneys as to whether
these open sessions could possibly harm the County's case in the courts?
Ms. Iseri-Carvalho: I can tell you it was definitely a detriment
for my Attorney not to have my availability at the depositions for a manini cost of
one hundred fifty dollars ($150).
Ms. Yukimura: That is another matter.
Ms. Iseri-Carvalho: No, it is the same matter when you are
talking about moneys expended for whatever public purpose. When we are talking
about trial strategies, I believe that openness and transparency is a great gift and
that is something that we should discuss and people should discuss it. I have heard
a Councilmember here, Councilmember Kagawa said justice should be served in the
Courts and likewise, a public hearing is going to happen when you have a trial and
before we get to a trial a forum like this in my opinion is totally appropriate.
COUNCIL MEETING 105 JUNE 12, 2013
Chair Furfaro: Shay, I want you to know, first of all, your
points, thank you for that. When we get to Executive Session, I will raise them, but
for the public also, when additional moneys are requested for and so forth, it is
always public and as we vote for the moneys, the voting is always done in public
session. But your points today are well-taken and I thank you for your testimony.
Mr. Rapozo: One question.
Chair Furfaro: Go ahead.
Mr. Rapozo: Shay, do you know if Mr. Katz is going to be
available today?
Ms. Iseri-Carvalho: He was not aware this was on the agenda
until I informed him of such and it was apparent that the County Attorney's Office
had not informed him of the matter being present and again, whether this Council
informed him to be present for discussions regarding the item, I am not privy to
that. But I spoke to him on Monday morning.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. I just want to let you know, it
was my understanding that he knew he was going to be on call. I did not say we
had an appointment with him.
Ms. Iseri-Carvalho: That may have transpired after Monday and
I spoke to him Monday morning and he was not aware it was on the agenda,
because my question is what was the purpose of requesting an additional eleven
thousand dollars ($11,000) when several weeks ago you requested twenty-five
thousand dollars ($25,000), and was aware of what the purpose for that twenty-five
thousand dollars ($25,000)?
Chair Furfaro: Again, he knew today.
Ms. Iseri-Carvalho: Today was the day he knew?
Chair Furfaro: Today was the day he knew. Today he knew
we expected him to be on-call, not last week, not Monday, today. Okay. Thank you
very much for your testimony, Shay. Does your Attorney want to speak to us? You
need to come up, unless we have any questions?
Mr. Rapozo: Mr. Chair, if I may, can we just have staff
double check if Mr. Katz is available, because if he is not, I am not going to go into
Executive Session.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Thank you for being here.
RICHARD WILSON: Thank you Mr. Chair. Richard Wilson, and I
represent Mrs. Iseri-Carvalho in her individual capacity and unless there is
something specific, I know there are a lot of other agenda items— in essence what
she said with respect to conflict of interest, that does concern me as her individual
counsel and if the County Attorney is involved in any substantial way, shape, or
form, in light of positions, personally or professional, as her professional lawyer it
does cause me a lot of concern. I do not think the County Attorney's Office should
COUNCIL MEETING 106 JUNE 12, 2013
be involved really in any way, not just in terms of strategic planning, trial strategy,
but also with purse strings because it dictates the type of defense she is going to
receive. The second thing is that I agree...
Chair Furfaro: Let us make sure we understand something.
Your term, "the "purse strings," is controlled by the Council. Their ability to ask for
the money, they have the right to ask for it. I want to make sure, the purse strings
are here.
Mr. Wilson: Actually Mr. Chair, that is a good
clarification point to make and it was my understanding that the request came from
the County Attorney's Office as opposed to coming from Mr. Katz' Office or the
appointed Counsel and that sort of involvement is a concern of mine, because if it
has go through the County Attorney's Office before requests are made, whether it is
a tacit agreement or an actual agreement, before requests can be made of the
Council is a concern of mine. I think the other thing in the twenty-two (22) years of
being a commercial litigator, I have never been in a situation where a client, a
party, has not been at another party's deposition and I cannot tell you how critical it
is in terms of having your part there. Issues come up, questions come up, and
matters come up and over one hundred fifty dollars ($150), I mean, it is unheard
of... well the last thing your honor... I am so used to Court... I should call you judge.
I really think for everybody here, you are all in a real difficult situation. I
understand Mr. Bynum is a colleague of yours right now. He is on the Council. I
am an advocate and I like to think I am a very good advocate, so you have to
measure what I do. My only client is not the County Attorney's Office, it is not you
folks, it is not the County of Kaua`i. My client is Mrs. Iseri-Carvalho and I can be
very focused and do not have conflicts and I encourage you each and every one of
you to get a copy of the deposition and you see exactly what he says and look at the
complaint and measure his testimony and I think you will find they are worlds
apart. I will say this...I have not been involved in the discussions by the County-
appointed Attorneys for purposes of resolution or settlement or what not. If the
County chooses to settle this case in her official capacity, the County is going to do
what they will do and I will take the case to trial. If Ms. Iseri-Carvalho is not on a
dispositive motion, I am going to take this case to trial and she will be exonerated
and if this County chooses to take action before that, be well-advised that after we
come back after an open-court proceeding and Mr. Bynum is unable to support his
claims, I wonder what the position for the people of the County of Kaua`i who are
spending thousands of dollars on what I truly believe is a frivolous lawsuit and we
go forward and she is exonerated, but I want to let everybody on this Council know
she is not going to settle this case. We are going to get our day in court and I hope
Mr. Bynum looks forward to having his day in Court because what I have seen so
far— Mrs. Iseri-Carvalho will be exonerated. If there are any other questions from
any other Councilmembers, including you Mr. Chair, I would be more than willing
to answer them.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much for being here and
that speaks very highly of your commitment. Obviously, we are going to let this
thing take its course and I am I am glad you were able to acknowledge that the
Council controls the purse strings. Your comment on who the conduit is has been
well taken. Thank you.
Mr. Wilson: Thank you. It is always nice coming home,
Mr. Chair.
COUNCIL MEETING 107 JUNE 12, 2013
Ms. Yukimura: If this is a trivial case, it should be settled by
motion to dismiss, should it not?
Mr. Wilson: It will not be a motion to dismiss, but a
motion for summary judgment.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. So that should be the point which I
guess you would be pushing to establish that in Court?
Mr. Wilson: I would suspect that if the County-appointed
Attorneys do not file such a motion, I certainly will.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you, Richard.
Mr. Wilson: Thank you very much.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order and
proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: I have confirmed through the County
Attorney that Mr. Katz will be available for the call. Now I want to confirm, with
the information that you have with Mr. Katz being available that you are prepared
to go into Executive Session?
Mr. Rapozo: Correct.
Chair Furfaro: The reason I asked that is because we only
have five (5). When somebody drops out, we do not have the five (5) to go into
Executive Session. Okay? So there is a motion to approve then. That is the motion
we need. He is available when we call, that is what it says. So motion to approve?
Ms. Yukimura: Move to go into Executive Session?
Chair Furfaro: We are not going into Executive Session. I
took this communication just because he had a plane to catch. And I have a motion
to approve. Can I have a second? Was there already a motion? I should realize I
should have had that second scoop of rice for lunch and I would be better off. Okay,
all those in favor, signify by saying aye?
Mr. Rapozo: I think that will come after Executive
Session, Mr. Chair.
Chair Furfaro: You are right, again. We will just hold on
until after Executive Session there is the song "Hold On." Let us go to the next
item.
C 2013-214 Communication (02/12/2013) from the Chief of Field Operations
and Maintenance, Department of Public Works, requesting Council approval to
purchase a portable gas engine driven hydraulic operator in the amount of $12,000
from Project No. W08037, Appropriation Account No. 401-2071-624.85-02, to
facilitate the raising and lowering of five (5) 60-inch levee slide gates at Gate A in
COUNCIL MEETING 108 JUNE 12, 2013
the Waimea Levee: Mr. Kagawa moved to approve C 2013-214, seconded by
Ms. Nakamura, and carried by a vote of 5:0:2 (Mr. Hooser was excused).
C 2013-215 Communication (05/21/2013) from the Chief of Field Operations
and Maintenance, Department of Public Works, requesting Council approval to
include as part of the present Islandwide Road Resurfacing list, the reconstruction
and resurfacing of 350 square yards of Maluhia Road, near the intersection with
Kaumuali`i Highway, at an estimated cost of $33,000: Mr. Kagawa moved to
approve C 2013-215, seconded by Mr. Rapozo, and carried by a vote of 5:0:2
(Mr. Hooser was excused).
C 2013-216 Communication (03/18/2013) from the Fire Chief, requesting
Council approval to apply, receive, and expend the Assistance to Firefighters Grant
(AFG) Fire Prevention and Safety Grants for the following projects:
1) Five hundred (500) Lithium Battery Smoke Alarms for a fire
alarm campaign that targets high risk groups such as the
elderly. The total cost of the project is $13,000; the AFG
request is $10,400 with the County's obligation being a total
of$2,600.
2) Sixty thousand (60,000) Beach Safety Guides translated into
Cantonese Chinese, German, Japanese, Korean, and
Mandarin Chinese to assist non-English speaking visitors.
The total cost of the project is $12,000; the AFG request is
$9,600 with the County's obligation being a total of$2,400.
3) One hundred forty (140) Helmet ID Accountability Systems
to address firefighter safety. Each unit consists of one (1)
leather front and two (2) magnetic side panels with fire
company identification numbers. The total cost of the project
is $15,120; the AFG request is $12,096 with the County's
obligation being a total of$3,024.
Mr. Kagawa moved to approve C 2013-216, seconded by Mr. Rapozo.
Chair Furfaro: We have a motion and a second on all three
(3) parts of this. Is there any need to take these at seriatim?
Ms. Yukimura: I have just a brief question for the Chief.
Chair Furfaro: JoAnn you have the floor.
There being no objections the rules were suspended.
Ms. Yukimura: Chief, I am particularly pleased with the
Beach Safety Guides that will be translated into Cantonese Chinese, German,
Japanese, Korean, and Mandarin Chinese that is even more important as we
receive more foreign guests and if that can be put on the web, since the translations
will already be made and my question is that you show a County portion that is
obligated and all I want to confirm is that there is these moneys are in our budget?
ROBERT F. WESTERMAN, Fire Chief: Yes.
COUNCIL MEETING 109 JUNE 12, 2013
Ms. Yukimura: Okay, and I guess when you make these
requests to apply and receive, if you could just note in the transmittal that you do
have money in the Budget for the County match.
Mr. Westerman: Right. For the smaller ones, we take them
out of the equipment funding accounts and the bigger ones we do request a separate
line item. This is the same grant, if you remember, we got the education trailer and
our matching was pretty significant, like forty thousand dollars ($40,000), and we
make sure that is a dedicated line item in the Budget, but yes, ma'am.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you very much.
Mr. Westerman: You are welcome.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Kagawa.
Mr. Kagawa: Just a quick question, Chief, since she
already called you up here and make it worth your while. The five hundred (500)
smoke alarms for the elderly and the high-risk and I am picturing in the old homes
that have old electrical wiring that may tend to have a high risk of turning into a
fire. Is that going to be given out free to some of these high-risk homes?
Mr. Westerman: Yes. There is actually a program that we
would work with elderly. We have already worked out those details and they helped
us identify the homes and we also worked with the Electrical Union should we
receive the grant, for them to do the installation.
Mr. Kagawa: Who does? The Fire Department does the
installation?
Mr. Westerman: No, no. The Electricians from the Electrical
Union.
Mr. Kagawa: Okay. Would they be donating some of their
costs?
Mr. Westerman: Yes, their time.
Mr. Kagawa: Wow, terrific. Thank you.
Mr. Westerman: They are actually pretty anxious for us to get
the award. We have not been awarded this yet. It is a sample that Honolulu has
been doing and we are kind of following their sample. Much like the beach guides,
the State has determined that those are the languages that they have already
started to translate. That is where we got the ideas for those languages for the
beach guide, should we receive that one, too.
Mr. Kagawa: Excellent. Just really excellent ideas and
thank you for maximizing outside funding.
Chair Furfaro: Chief, for the seniors, will they also include
some kind of briefing when the battery goes dead and what to look for when the
light goes on? Will that be part of the installation?
COUNCIL MEETING 110 JUNE 12, 2013
Mr. Westerman: Yes, sir.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much. Any more questions
for the Chief? If not, we have a motion to approve.
There being no objections, the meeting was called to order, and proceeded as
follows:
The motion to approve C 2013-216 was then put, and unanimously carried.
C 2013-217 Communication (05/23/2013) from the Chief of Police, requesting
Council approval to accept and utilize a new vehicle acquired through its
collaboration with the United States Marshals Service (USMS) for law enforcement
purposes and joint law enforcement operations: Mr. Kagawa moved to approve
C 2013-217, seconded by Mr. Rapozo.
Chair Furfaro: Discussion? Anyone in the audience?
Mr. Kagawa.
Mr. Kagawa: I just have a quick question. I just wanted to
know if Ms. Kapua had information on the vehicle and how much it is worth,
because it sounds like a terrific gift to us. Thank you. What kind of vehicle?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me, the rules are suspended. Go right
ahead, Mr. Kagawa. You need to introduce yourself.
Mr. Kagawa: Hi Karen, and thank you for coming and
staying this late. What kind of vehicle did we receive and what is the appropriate
value?
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me, you need to introduce yourself
Lieutenant, just Karen will not do.
KAREN KAPUA, Lieutenant, Kaua`i Police Department: Okay,
Lieutenant Karen Kapua, Kaua`i Police Department. We have not gotten the
vehicle yet and there is a choice of vehicles that they send to us that we can choose
from and the amount is up to twenty-seven thousand dollars ($27,000).
Mr. Kagawa: Wow, I think it has been no secret that we
have a lot of aging vehicles and any new vehicle would be very much welcomed by
the County. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: The grant actually gives you a choice?
Ms. Kapua: The U.S. Marshals is giving us a choice.
Chair Furfaro: Through the grant they are giving you a
choice?
Ms. Kapua: They were appropriated funds for that. So
they are giving it to all the task force agencies.
COUNCIL MEETING 111 JUNE 12, 2013
Chair Furfaro: It is not like they say, here is a Compass
Jeep?
Ms. Kapua: They send you a list of cars that you can
choose from. You have to follow those guidelines.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Lieutenant, thank you very much for
being here. Sorry we kept you so late. Anyone else wishing to testify on this item,
if not, all those in favor, signify by saying aye?
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order and
proceeded as follows:
The motion to approve C 2013-217 was then put, and carried by a vote of
5:0:2 (Mr. Hooser was excused).
C 2013-218 Communication (05/29/2013) from the Fire Chief, requesting
Council approval to accept the donation of propane refills from Hawai`i Gas for the
Fire Safety and Educational Trailer to continue its participation in public events on
Kaua`i: Mr. Kagawa moved to approve with a thank you letter to Hawai`i Gas to
follow, seconded by Mr. Rapozo, and carried by a vote of 5:0:2 (Mr. Hooser was
excused).
C 2013-219 Communication (05/29/2013) from the Director of Finance,
transmitting for Council information the following reports:
(1) County of Kaua`i Bond Summary of General Long—Term
Debt Amount Outstanding as of July 01, 2012;
(2) County of Kaua`i Bond Supplemental Summary of General
Long—Term Debt Amount Outstanding as of June 30, 2013;
Excluded County of Kaua`i Bond Supplemental Summary of
Long—Term Debt Amount Outstanding as of June 30, 2012:
CFD No. 2008-1 (Kukui`ula Development Project) Special
Tax Bonds, Series 2012, sold April 25, 2012.
Mr. Kagawa moved to receive C 2013-219, seconded by Mr. Rapozo.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much. Steve, I am asking
next time Mr. Hirai is in town, can we get a little head's up, to put him on the
agenda? Could you please come up? I understand Steve, we were unable to have
Dave, the Treasurer here today either?
STEVEN A. HUNT, Director of Finance: Yes, we were not sure
whether this was going to be received, discussed, or what time it was going to
happen. So Dave's schedule ended at 4:30 p.m. and not wanting to incur overtime, I
sent him home.
Chair Furfaro: You are his substitute and our business does
not stop at 4:30 p.m., but thank you for being his substitute.
COUNCIL MEETING 112 JUNE 12, 2013
Mr. Hunt: I understand. Brian Hirai was here and
there were about forty (40) participants. There were the Fiscal Officers across the
County and the Water Department Officers as well. He is not someone who makes
normal visits and we have to schedule him and rather than have him drop by, if
there is a particular day to schedule him for, we can work through that. His
contract is through the County Attorney's Office and we need to work through their
budget and schedule, but we would be happy to schedule and have him here at your
convenience.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. The next opportunity that
arises, especially with our cash situation, I would certainly encourage an
opportunity to have him during the week, so we can have some dialogue with him.
Mr. Hunt: Certainly.
Chair Furfaro: JoAnn, you have the floor.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you. You said Mr. Hirai was here to
train some forty (40) plus people?
Mr. Hunt: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: Was it in the issue of bonds?
Mr. Hunt: It was in the issue of bonds and more
specifically a breakout meeting in the afternoon with a group that focused on the
shorter term Capital Improvement Project (CIP) needs particularly the Landfill
Expansion, Cell II as well as potential projects like the Materials Recovery Facility
(MRF) and the potential Adolescent Drug Treatment Center being on the nearer-
term horizon for potential bond funding. One of the bigger concerns was the type of
bonds to be used for those specific projects given that we may be looking at third-
party management involved. They may not qualify for tax exempt and they may
have to be Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) bonds, similar to what we have had to
issue on the refinance with the existing Landfill facility.
Chair Furfaro: May I tell you in advance, thank you for
sending out the invitation to Councilmembers who wanted to participate. That was
much appreciated.
Mr. Hunt: You are welcome.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: You good, JoAnn?
Ms. Yukimura: Yes, thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Any further questions of Steve? Steve, thank
you for being with us this evening. I think there are no further questions.
Mr. Hunt: Thank you, Chair.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order and
proceeded as follows:
COUNCIL MEETING 113 JUNE 12, 2013
Chair Furfaro: There are people in the audience, but not on
this item. We have a motion?
The motion to approve C 2013-219 was then put, and carried by a vote of
5:0:2 (Mr. Hooser was excused).
C 2013-220 Communication (06/05/2013) from the County Engineer,
requesting Council approval to apply for, receive, and expend State of Hawai`i,
Department of Transportation (HDOT) "Safe Routes to School" federal funds
provided by Section 1404 of the Safe, Accountable, Flexible, Efficient
Transportation Equity Act: A Legacy for Users Extension Act for a total amount of
$1,183,000: Mr. Kagawa moved to approve, seconded by Ms. Yukimura.
Chair Furfaro: Any discussion? Lyle, may I ask you
to come up? I have a question. Lyle, funds are short for the County of Kaua`i at
this time and for any of this money to be used for Safe Routes to School as part of
the Equity Act is there any commitment on our part, or is this one hundred percent
(100%)?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
LYLE TABATA, Deputy County Engineer: This is one hundred
percent (100%) funding. In particular, it is the first time that the County of Kaua`i
is applying for this grant. This is going to be the third call for projects, the two (2)
previous calls came previous to this Administration. We have worked very hard to
be ready for this call.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you for the work you are doing in
getting us prepared. JoAnn, do you have a question?
Ms. Yukimura: Yes. I first just wanted to thank you and our
Planner...Transportation Planner Lee and I see Peter Nakamura from Planning for
applying for this. This is what it is? One million one hundred eighty-three
thousand dollars ($1,183,000)— over a million dollars of one hundred percent
(100%) match and it is for Safe Routes to Schools which has been a big concern
around our island and it is wonderful and thank you to you and your team.
Chair Furfaro: It is wonderful. Nadine.
Ms. Nakamura: Out of curiosity, how much does the State
have to grant out in this program?
Mr. Tabata: Under this program, the State originally had
about eight million dollars ($8,000,000), of which they have expended three million
dollars ($3,000,000)... just under three million dollars ($3,000,000). There is a little
over five million dollars ($5,000,000) million left and it is distributed as the projects
are coming forward.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you very much for a solid application.
Mr. Tabata: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Questions, Mr. Kagawa?
COUNCIL MEETING 114 JUNE 12, 2013
Mr. Kagawa: Just real quick, we have what? Bus service
to people one (1) mile outside of the... is that one (1) mile outside of the school
range? Are these moneys to cover within the one (1) mile in the nearby areas?
Mr. Tabata: The radius is a one (1) mile radius from
around the school property, yes.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Did you have another question, Nadine?
Thank you Lyle for being here and thank you Peter Nakamura for your work on this
project. On that note, any further commentary? If not the meeting is called back to
order.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
The motion to approve C 2013-220 was then put, and carried by a vote of
5:0:2 (Hooser was excused).
C 2013-221 Communication (06/06/2013) from the County Attorney,
requesting Council approval to expend funds up to $26,000 for Special Counsel's
continued services provided for the County of Kaua`i in Ricky L. Ball vs. Kaua`i
Lagoons Resort Company, Ltd., et al., Civil No. 12-1-0289 JKW (Fifth Circuit
Court), and related matters: Mr. Rapozo moved to approve, seconded by
Mr. Kagawa, and carried by the following vote:
FOR APPROVAL: Bynum, Kagawa, Nakamura, Yukimura,
Rapozo, Furfaro TOTAL— 6,
AGAINST APPROVAL: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Hooser TOTAL — 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0.
C 2013-222 Communication (06/06/2013) from the County Attorney,
requesting Council approval to expend funds up to $26,000 for Special Counsel's
continued services provided for the County of Kaua`i in Jeffery Sampoang vs.
Harvey Brothers, LLC; et al., Civil No. 12-1-0294 JKW (Fifth Circuit Court), and
related matters: Mr. Rapozo moved to approve, seconded by Mr. Kagawa, and
carried by the following vote:
FOR APPROVAL: Byunm, Kagawa, Nakamura, Yukimura,
Rapozo, Furfaro TOTAL — 6,
AGAINST APPROVAL: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Bynum, Hooser TOTAL— 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you and let us make a note, there is
no one in the audience that wishes to testify on this item. Thank you very much.
We will go to the next item. Mr. Bynum, you heard the attorney is available... my
gosh. It is late. I am having problems with my blood sugar today. It affects my
focus sometimes. Mr. Rapozo, you want to hold these until we go into Executive
Session?
COUNCIL MEETING 115 JUNE 12, 2013
Mr. Rapozo: Yes.
C 2013-225 Communication (06/06/2013) from the County Attorney,
requesting Council approval to expend funds up to $29,944 for Special Counsel's
continued services to advise and represent the County Council in matters relating
to the investigations of personnel matters involving the County Auditor's Office,
and related matters: Mr. Kagawa moved to defer, seconded by Mr. Rapozo, and
carried by a vote of 5:0:2 (Mr. Hooser was excused)
LEGAL DOCUMENT:
C 2013-226 Communication (05/31/2013) from Jodi A. Sayegusa, Deputy
County Attorney, recommending Council approval of the following:
• Grant of Drainage Easement by KW Kiahuna LLC,
conveying to Wainani at Po`ipu Community Association and
the County of Kaua`i Easements D-4 and D-5, Wainani at
Po`ipu Subdivision, Koloa, Kauai, Hawai`i, for draining
purposes.
Mr. Kagawa moved to approve C 2013-226, seconded by Mr. Rapozo, and
carried by a vote of 5:0:2 (Mr. Hooser was excused).
CLAIMS:
C 2013-227 Communication (05/15/2013) from the Deputy County Clerk,
transmitting a claim filed against the County of Kaua`i by Jeremy Riopta, for
damage to his vehicle, pursuant to Section 23.06, Charter of the County of Kaua`i:
Mr. Kagawa moved to refer C 2013-227 to the County Attorney's Office for
disposition and/or report back to the Council, seconded by Mr. Rapozo, and carried by
a vote of 5:0:2 (Mr. Hooser was excused).
C 2013-228 Communication (05/28/2013) from the Deputy County Clerk,
transmitting a claim filed against the County of Kaua`i by Kyle Schumacher, for
damage to his vehicle, pursuant to Section 23.06, Charter of the County of Kaua`i:
Mr. Kagawa moved to refer C 2013-228 to the County Attorney's Office for
disposition and/or report back to the Council, seconded by Mr. Rapozo, and carried by
a vote of 5:0:2 (Mr. Hooser was excused).
C 2013-229 Communication (05/29/2013) from the Deputy County Clerk,
transmitting a claim filed against the County of Kaua`i by Bruce Stine, for damages
to his vehicle, pursuant to Section 23.06, Charter of the County of Kaua`i:
Mr. Kagawa moved to refer C 2013-229 to the County Attorney's Office for
disposition and/or report back to the Council, seconded by Mr. Rapozo, and carried
by a vote of 5:0:2 (Mr. Hooser was excused).
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Let us move onto Committee
Reports.
COMMITTEE REPORT:
ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES / PUBLIC SAFETY / COMMUNITY ASSISTANCE
COMMITTEE:
COUNCIL MEETING 116 JUNE 12, 2013
A report (No. CR-EPC 2013-06) submitted by the Environmental Services /
Public Safety / Community Assistance Committee, recommending that the following
be received for the record:
"EPC 2013-05 Communication (05/09/2013) from Committee Chair
Rapozo, requesting the presence of the Administration to provide a briefing
and an update on the Host Community Benefit Program for the Kekaha
community, to include, but not limited to, the amount of funding available,
the proposed use of the funds (e.g., consultant fees, proposed projects, etc.), a
list of the Citizens Advisory Committee members, and the appropriate
County Department that is responsible for managing this project,"
Ms. Nakamura moved for approval of the report, seconded by Mr. Rapozo,
and carried by a 6:0:1 vote (Mr. Hooser was excused).
Chair Furfaro: Five (5) ayes. Let us go to the next item,
please.
RESOLUTIONS:
Resolution No. 2013-56 — RESOLUTION CONFIRMING MAYORAL
APPOINTMENT TO THE BOARD OF WATER SUPPLY (Hugh A. Strom):
Ms. Yukimura moved to defer Resolution No. 2013-56 pending the interview on
June 19, 2013, seconded by Ms. Nakamura, and carried by a vote of 5:0:2
(Mr. Hooser was excused).
BILLS FOR FIRST READING:
Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2487) — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE
APPROVING A COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT FOR BARGAINING
UNIT 1 BETWEEN JULY 1, 2013 AND JUNE 30, 2017: Ms. Nakamura moved for
passage of Proposed Draft Bill No. 2487 on first reading, that it be ordered to print,
that a public hearing thereon be scheduled for July 10, 2013 at 8:30 a.m., and that
it thereafter be referred to the Committee of the Whole to the July 10, 2013
Committee of the Whole Committee Meeting, seconded by Mr. Rapozo.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Just for clarification, this is for
going forward from the year 2013 to 2017. Is there any further discussion? If not,
roll call vote, please.
The motion for passage of Proposed Draft Bill No. 2487 was then put, and
carried by the following vote:
FOR PASSAGE: Bynum, Kagawa, Nakamura, Rapozo,
Yukimura, Furfaro TOTAL — 6,
AGAINST PASSAGE: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Hooser TOTAL— 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0.
Chair Furfaro: Present, we have four (4) attorneys in the
audience. One (1) from our Staff, the former Prosecutor, and Al and Jodi from the
County Attorney's Office. Next item, please.
COUNCIL MEETING 117 JUNE 12, 2013
Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2488) — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE
APPROVING A COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT FOR BARGAINING
UNITS 2, 3, AND 4 BETWEEN JULY 1, 2013 AND JUNE 30, 2015: Ms. Nakamura
moved for passage of Proposed Draft Bill No. 2488 on first reading, that it be
ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be scheduled for July 10, 2013 at
8:30 a.m., and that it thereafter be referred to the Committee of the Whole to the
July 10, 2013 Committee of the Whole Committee Meeting, seconded by
Mr. Rapozo, and carried by the following vote:
FOR PASSAGE: Bynum, Kagawa, Nakamura, Rapozo,
Yukimura, Furfaro TOTAL — 6,
AGAINST PASSAGE: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Hooser TOTAL— 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
Chair Furfaro: I believe the next item is the one we voted on
to defer because it is pending the Governor's action, right?
EXECUTIVE SESSION:
(Councilmember Bynum was not present and was recused from ES-646 and
ES-647.)
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Yes, we handled that this morning. For the
remaining of the calendar, we have Executive Sessions. ES-629, ES-641, ES-642,
ES-643, and ES-648 were deferred. We have ES-646 and ES-647 pending.
ES-646 Pursuant to Hawai`i Revised Statutes (HRS) Sections 92-4 and
92-5(a)(4) and (8), and Kaua`i County Charter Section 3.07(E), the purpose of this
Executive Session is to provide the Council with a briefing as it relates to Defendant
Shaylene Iseri-Carvalho in Tim Bynum vs. County of Kaua`i, et al., Civil No. CV12-
00523 RLP (United States District Court), and related matters. This briefing and
consultation involves consideration of the powers, duties, privileges, immunities
and/or liabilities of the Council and the County as they relate to this agenda item.
ES-647 Pursuant to Hawai`i Revised Statutes Sections 92-4 and 92-5(a)(4)
and (8), and Kaua`i County Charter Section 3.07(E), the purpose of this Executive
Session is to provide the Council with a briefing as it relates to Defendant County of
Kauai in Tim Bynum vs. County of Kaua`i, et al., Civil No. CV12-00523 RLP
(United States District Court), and related matters. This briefing and consultation
involves consideration of the powers, duties, privileges, immunities and/or liabilities
of the Council and the County as they relate to this agenda item.
Chair Furfaro: Is there anyone who wishes to speak on
these two (2) items before we go into Executive Session?
Ms. Nakamura moved to reconvene into Executive Session for ES-646 and
ES-647, seconded by Mr. Kagawa, and carried by the following vote:
FOR EXECUTIVE SESSION: Kagawa, Nakamura, Rapozo,
Yukimura, Furfaro TOTAL — 5,
COUNCIL MEETING 118 JUNE 12, 2013
AGAINST EXECUTIVE SESSION: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Hooser TOTAL — 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: Bynum TOTAL— 1.
Chair Furfaro: Let us not take more than five (5) minutes to go
next door. We will be back.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 6:08 p.m.
The meeting reconvened at 7:09 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: Okay, we are back from our Executive Session.
I believe this is the last of our business for today. May I ask the Clerk to read the
items, please?
COMMUNICATIONS:
C 2013-223 Communication (06/06/2013) from the County Attorney,
requesting Council approval to expend up to $11,000 for Special Counsel's continued
services provided for Defendant Shaylene Iseri-Carvalho in Tim Bynum vs. County
of Kaua`i, et al., Civil No. CV12-00523 RLP (United States District Court), and
related matters: Mr. Rapozo moved to approve C 2013-223, seconded by
Ms. Yukimura.
Chair Furfaro: Okay, I have a motion to approve and a second.
For the record, there is no one in the audience. Is there any further discussion
before I call for the vote?
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you, Mr. Chair. This has been a long
day and night. I have said it three (3) times before, but this is just a very weird
case. We have had Ms. Iseri-Carvalho come up again today. It is very
uncomfortable to have a lawsuit that really hit the media and everything. For me,
the truth shall set us free. The only way you get the truth is by not having a back
door deal that settles the case without any facts coming out. I really want to let this
case run its course and I am willing to help pay the tab. Mahalo.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Any further discussion? If not, we have
a motion to approve eleven thousand dollars ($11,000) for the item so read. May I
do a roll call vote, please?
The motion to approve C 2013-223 was then put, and carried by the following
vote:
FOR APPROVAL: Kagawa, Nakamura, Rapozo, Yukimura,
Furfaro TOTAL— 5,
AGAINST APPROVAL: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Hooser TOTAL — 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: Bynum TOTAL — 1.
Chair Furfaro: Five (5) ayes. Next item, please.
C 2013-224 Communication (06/06/2013) from the County Attorney,
requesting Council approval to expend up to $15,000 for Special Counsel's continued
services provided for Defendant County of Kaua`i in Tim Bynum vs. County of
COUNCIL MEETING 119 JUNE 12, 2013
Kaua`i, et al., Civil No. CV12-00523 RLP (United States District Court), and related
matters: Mr. Rapozo moved to approve C 2013-224, seconded by Mr. Kagawa.
Chair Furfaro: I have a motion to approve and a second.
For the record, there is no one in the audience for testimony. Ms. Nakamura.
Ms. Nakamura: I just want to say that we have been briefed
by the County Attorney that I think we have a sound legal team and strategy and
the funding is needed to continue to implement that strategy.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you for saying that. Is there any
further discussion? Mr. Kagawa.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Ms. Iseri-Carvalho
brought up some concerns about our County paying legal fees like we do not really
care. The fact of the matter that Ms. Nakamura pointed out, we need to have better
project management regarding this. Hopefully in the future, we will get more
detailed breakdowns as to where we are at so that we know the full gamut of how
much money we spent and for what. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Is there any further discussion? If not, can I
have a roll call vote, please?
The motion to approve C 2013-224 was then put, and carried by the following
vote:
FOR APPROVAL: Kagawa, Nakamura, Rapozo, Yukimura,
Furfaro TOTAL — 5,
AGAINST APPROVAL: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Hooser TOTAL — 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: Bynum TOTAL — 1.
Chair Furfaro: On that note, I believe that concludes the business for
the Council today. I want to thank Christiane, Codie, and Jade. We are adjourned
at 7:15 p.m.
ADJOURNMENT:
There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 7:15 p.m.
itctfu submitted,
II ■
JA Li ' K. FOUNTAIN-TANIGAWA
Deputy County Clerk
:cy
ATTACHMENT 1
(June 12, 2013)
FLOOR AMENDMENT
Resolution No. 2013-57, Resolution Establishing An Affordable Housing Advisory Committee
Introduced by: JoAnn A. Yukimura
1. Amend Resolution No. 2013-57 by amending the 1st BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED
paragraph to read as follows:
"BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Affordable Housing Advisory
Committee ("Committee") shall consist of the following members: Ellen Ching, Ken
Rainforth, Debra Deluis, MaBel Fujiuchi, Roberta Charles, Paul Kyno, Clifton
Kukino, June Munoz, Bob Keown, Pamella DeFrancis, Paul MacDonald, Sean
Mahoney, Stephen Spears, Tom Shigemoto, Karen Ono, Joseph Figaroa, Desiree
Vea, Matilda Yoshioka, Ray Soon, JoAnn A. Yukimura, Councilmember, and [one
other] Tim Bynum, Councilmember.
June 12, 2013 ATTACHMENT 2
FLOOR AMENDMENT
Resolution No. 2013-57, relating to Establishing an Affordable Housing Advisory
Committee
Introduced by: Councilmember Nadine Nakamura
Amend Resolution No. 2013-57, as amended, in its entirety as follows:
"WHEREAS, there is a need to effectively address the lack of affordable
housing on Kaua`i; and
WHEREAS, the challenges to both private and public developers of affordable
housing and to potential renters and homeowners are ever increasing; and
WHEREAS, the Chapter 7A, Housing Policy for the County of Kauai, Kauai
County Code 1987, as amended, ("Housing Policy for the County of Kaua`i") is a
critical tool in providing affordable housing [and needs to be updated to be more
effective]; and
WHEREAS, there are concerns that the current housing policy does not
adequately address the need for permanent affordable housing and lacks clear
affordable housing provisions for resort development; and
WHEREAS, the establishment of an Affordable Housing Advisory Committee
is warranted to obtain insight/input and recommendations from those in the
community who are knowledgeable about, and involved in, providing affordable
housing. The Affordable Housing Advisory Committee will make recommendations
to the Council Committee on Housing and Transportation in support of its review
and update of the Housing Policy for the County of Kaua`i; and
WHEREAS, Rule No. 4(d) of the Rules of the Council of the County of Kaua`i
allows for the creation of Special Advisory Committees; now, therefore,
BE IT RESOLVED BY THE COUNCIL OF THE COUNTY OF KAUAI,
STATE OF HAWAII, that the Kaua`i County Council recognizes the need for an
Affordable Housing Advisory Committee to advise the Council's Housing and
Transportation Committee as it reviews and updates of the Housing Policy for the
County of Kaua`i.
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Affordable Housing Advisory
Committee ("Committee") shall consist of the following members: Ellen Ching, Ken
Rainforth, Debra Deluis, MaBel Fujiuchi, Roberta Charles, Paul Kyno, Clifton
Kukino, June Munoz, Bob Keown, Pamella DeFrancis, Paul MacDonald, Sean
Mahoney, Stephen Spears, Tom Shigemoto, Karen Ono, Joseph Figaroa, Desiree
Vea, Matilda Yoshioka, Ray Soon, JoAnn A. Yukimura, Councilmember, and Tim
Bynum, Councilmember.
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Committee's scope of work shall be
to review the current Housing Policy for the County of Kaua`i, and make
appropriate recommendations. In order to understand the context for its work, the
Advisory Committee shall first educate itself about the history and issues of
affordable housing on Kaua`i.
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Committee will meet for a minimum
of eight times to educate itself, review, and recommend proposed changes to the
Housing Policy for the County of Kaua`i.
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Advisory Committee will complete
its work and report to the Council no later than May 30, 2014. Pursuant to Rule
4(d)(2), the Council shall refer said report to the Council Committee on Housing and
Transportation. The Council Committee on Housing and Transportation will
subsequently provide a report and proposed amendments to the Housing Policy for
the County of Kauai to the Council.
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that copies of this Resolution be sent to
Mayor Bernard P. Carvalho, Jr., and Housing Director Kamuela Cobb-Adams."
(Material to be deleted is bracketed. New material to be added is underscored.)
V:\AMENDMENTS\2012-2014 term\reso 2013-57 FA.doc
ATTAQ 1F r 3
(June 12, 2013)
FLOOR AMENDMENT
Resolution No. 2013-55, Resolution Establishing A Council Investigating Committee
To Investigate The Management And Implementation Of The Transient Vacation
Rental And Flood/Building Permit Ordinances Within The County Of Kaua`i
Introduced by: MEL RAPOZO
1. Amend Resolution No. 2013-55 by deleting the following prefatory
language on page 1:
"[WHEREAS, private citizens and the Kaua`i Eclectic blog have
provided numerous documented examples of irregularities regarding the
processing of TVR certificate and permit applications, and the permitting
process for improvements and repairs in the flood zone; and]"
2. Amend Resolution No. 2013-55 by amending Paragraph 2 to read as
follows:
"The Committee shall be composed of three members of the Council,
including the Chair of the Environmental Services / Public Safety /
Community Assistance Committee, who shall serve as Chair; the Chair of the
Economic Development (Sustainability / Agriculture / Food / Energy) &
Intergovernmental Relations Committee, who shall serve as Vice Chair; and
a third member to be selected by the Council. For the purposes of this
Resolution only, to the extent that the provisions relating to the composition
of the Investigating Committee in Resolution No. 2005-25, Draft 1, are
inconsistent with this Resolution, the provisions in the latter shall govern."
3. Amend Resolution No. 2013-55 by amending Paragraph 3 to read as
follows:
"The Committee shall [investigate and make findings regarding
compliance with County ordinances and State laws in the processing of
applications for TVR certificates issued for properties identified by the
following tax map key numbers:
A. (4) 5-8-006:022
B. (4) 5-8-009:052
C. (4) 5-8-008:021
D. (4) 5-8-012:007
E. (4) 5-8-011:012
F. (4) 5-8-011:059-0001
G. (4) 5-8-009:053
•
H. (4) 5-8-010:015-0002
I. (4) 5-8-010:015-0003
J. (4) 5-8-010:015-0001
K. (4) 5-8-009:041
L. (4) 5-8-008:045
M. (4) 5-8-008:034
N. (4) 5-8-008:039
O. (4) 5-8-012:015
P. (4) 5-8-012:018
Q. (4) 5-8-008:046-0001
R. (4) 5-8-008:046-0002
If the Committee determines that other TVR applications warrant
investigation, the Committee may, at its discretion, investigate and
make findings regarding these other TVR permit applications.] conduct
investigations and make findings regarding the operations and/or
functions of the County of Kaua`i Planning Department pertaining to
the processing of applications for TVR certificates."
4. Amend Resolution No. 2013-55 by amending Paragraph 4 to read as
follows:
"The Committee shall [investigate and make findings regarding
compliance with County ordinances and State and Federal laws in the
processing of applications for building permits to repair or improve structures
located on properties identified by the following tax map key numbers:
A. (4) 5-8-006:022
B. (4) 5-8-009:052
C. (4) 5-8-008:021
D. (4) 5-8-012:007
E. (4) 5-8-011:012
L. (4) 5-8-008:034
M. (4) 5-8-008:039
P. (4) 5-8-008:046-0001
Q. (4) 5-8-008:046-0002
If the Committee determines that other building permit applications
warrant investigation, the Committee may, at its discretion,
investigate and make findings regarding these other building permit
applications.] conduct investigations and make findings regarding the
operations and/or functions of the County of Kaua`i Department of
Public Works pertaining to the processing of applications and/or
permits under the County of Kaua`i Flood Ordinance."
2
5. Amend Resolution No. 2013-55 by amending Paragraph 5 to read as
follows:
"The Committee shall have the powers and functions allowed to an
Investigating Committee by law, including the power to:
A. Employ such professional, technical, clerical, or other
personnel as necessary for the proper performance of its duties, [and
expend such funds appropriated for operating expenses as necessary
for the proper performance of its duties] to the extent of funds made
available to it for such purposes and subject to such restrictions and
procedures relating thereto as may be provided by law or any
applicable rules or procedures of the Council; and
B. [Issue subpoenas via the Presiding Officer requiring the
attendance and testimony of witnesses and subpoenas duces tecum
requiring the production of books, documents, records, papers, or other
evidence in any matter pending before the Committee] Subpoena
witnesses, via the Presiding Officer, and to compel the production of
books, documents, or other evidence pertinent to its investigation. The
subpoena shall state the name of the Council as the issuing authority
and shall command each person to whom it is directed to attend and
give testimony at the time and place specified therein, and may also
command the person to whom it is directed to produce books,
documents, or other evidence designated therein; and
C. Provide that each witness intended to be called be given a
minimum of six (6) days notice of the time and of the witness's
appearance from receipt of a subpoena; and
D. Provide that each person who is served with a subpoena shall
be served with a copy of Section 3.17 of the Charter, a copy of the
Resolution under which it functions, a general statement informing
such person of the subject matter of its investigation, and a notice that
such person may be accompanied at the hearing by counsel of such
person's own choosing to advise said person of their rights, subject to
reasonable limitations which the Committee may prescribe to prevent
obstruction of or interference with the orderly conduct of the hearing;
and
E. Hold hearings appropriate for the performance of its duties,
at such times and places as the Committee determines, pursuant to
provisions of Resolution No. 2005-25, Draft 1 and Chapter 92, Hawai`i
Revised Statutes (HRS) (the "Sunshine Law"); and
F. Administer oaths and affirmations to witnesses at hearings
of the Committee; and
3
G. Report or certify instances of contempt as provided for in
Section 3.17 of the Charter of Part 9 "Criminal Sanctions" of
Resolution No. 2005-25, Draft 1; and
H. Exercise all other powers specified under Section 3.17 of the
Charter and [the] Resolution No. 2005-25, Draft 1 with respect to
investigating committees."
6. Amend Resolution No. 2013-55 by amending Paragraph 8 to read as
follows:
"[The Committee shall, where appropriate, make findings regarding
any alleged misconduct related to the laws that the County of Kaua`i is
charged with implementing.] The Committee shall, at its conclusion, make
appropriate findings and recommendations as warranted."
(Material to be deleted is bracketed. New material is underscored.)
V:\AMENDMENTS\2012-2014 term\Reso 2013-55 v 2 PM:aa
4
ATTACHMENT 4
(June 12, 2013)
FLOOR AMENDMENT#2
Resolution No. 2013-55, Resolution Establishing A Council Investigating Committee
To Investigate The Management And Implementation Of The Transient Vacation
Rental And Flood/Building Permit Ordinances Within The County Of Kauai
Introduced by: TIM BYNUM
1. Amend Resolution No. 2013-55, as amended, by amending paragraph 1 to
read as follows:
"1. An investigative [joint] committee ("Committee") is hereby
established pursuant to Section 3.17 of the of the Charter, Kauai County
Council Resolution No. 2005-25, Draft 1 (entitled "Rules of the Council of the
County of Kaua`i for Investigations Pursuant to Section 3.17 of the Charter of
the County of Kauai") and Rule 4(b) of the Rules of the Council of the County
of Kauai."
2. Amend Resolution No. 2013-55 by amending paragraph 2 to read as
follows:
"2. The Committee shall be composed of [three members of the
Council, including the Chair of the Environmental Services / Public Safety /
Community Assistance Committee, who shall serve as Chair; the Chair of the
Economic Development (Sustainability / Agriculture / Food / Energy) &
Intergovernmental Relations Committee, who shall serve as Vice Chair; and
a third member to be selected by the Council. For the purposes of this
Resolution only, to the extent that the provisions relating to the composition
of the Investigating Committee in Resolution No. 2005-25, Draft 1, are
inconsistent with this Resolution, the provisions in the latter shall govern.]
the Committee of the Whole."
(Material to be deleted is bracketed. New material is underscored.)
V:\AMENDMENTS\2012-2014 term\Reso No 2013-55 (Bynum #2) PM:aa
ATTACHMENT 5
(June 12, 2013)
FLOOR AMENDMENT (#3)
Resolution No. 2013-55, Resolution Establishing A Council Investigating Committee
To Investigate The Management And Implementation Of The Transient Vacation
Rental And Flood/Building Permit Ordinances Within The County Of Kaua`i
INTRODUCED BY: NADINE K. NAKAMURA
1. Amend Resolution No. 2013-55, as amended, by amending paragraph 8 to
read as follows:
"8. The Committee shall, at its conclusion, make appropriate
findings and recommendations as warranted. Recommendations may include
measures to improve the County's enforcement of TVR and flood plain
ordinances, measures to improve coordination among departments, potential
changes to the TVR ordinance to improve enforcement, the addition of county
staffing resources to fully enforce the TVR ordinance , and follow-up
regarding any alleged misconduct."
(Material to be deleted is bracketed. New material is underscored.)
V:\AMENDMENTS\2012-2014 term\Reso No 2013-55(Nakamura v 2)PM:dmc.doc
•