HomeMy WebLinkAbout 10/08/2013 (cont'd 10/15/2013) Special Council Minutes SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING
OCTOBER 8, 2013
The Special Council Meeting of the Council of the County of Kaua`i was called
to order by the Council Chair Jay Furfaro at the Council Chambers, 4396 Rice
Street, Room 201, Lihu'e, Kaua'i, on Tuesday, October 8, 2013 at 8:42 a.m., after
which the following members answered the call of the roll:
Honorable Tim Bynum (present at 9:12 a.m.)
Honorable Gary L. Hooser
Honorable Ross Kagawa
Honorable Nadine K. Nakamura
Honorable Mel Rapozo
Honorable JoAnn A. Yukimura
Honorable Jay Furfaro
Chair Furfaro: This meeting today is time specific from
8:30 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. due to the fact that we have prior business on the afternoon
schedule. I want to start by acknowledging that Mr. Bynum called in and he may
be late this morning. May I get an approval of the agenda, please?
APPROVAL OF AGENDA.
Mr. Rapozo moved for approval of the agenda as circulated, seconded by
Ms. Nakamura, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1 (Mr. Bynum was not present).
Chair Furfaro: I want to share some general housekeeping
items with you this morning. This is a special meeting of the full Council. We are
reviewing action approved at Committee level, which has been forwarded to the full
Council. Again, this is a special meeting for today. My Office has cleared it with
the Office of Information Practices (OIP) that if we find ourselves at 1:00 p.m.
today, we can recess this meeting date specific, which will be Monday,
October 14, 2013. That was acceptable for them and we do have that opinion from
OIP. The reason that it was schedule to end at 1:00 p.m. is because we have
business dealing with the Office of the County Auditor already scheduled for this
afternoon. We will start with Public Comment which is pursuant to Council
Rule 13(e). Members of the public will have up to eighteen (18) minutes or three (3)
minutes each on first-come, first-serve basis to give three (3) minutes of testimony
at the direction of the Chair. They can speak on any item on the agenda. I will be
accepting a video presentation today that will last exactly three (3) minutes, but I
want to remind those of you who have signed up for Public Comment, there will be
no question and answer from the body when you make your presentation, according
to our rules. I am going to ask the Deputy County Clerk to read those names, as I
do not have the list in front of me.
PUBLIC COMMENT.
Pursuant to Council Rule 13(e), members of the public shall be allowed a total of
eighteen (18) minutes on a first come, first served basis to speak on any agenda
item. Each speaker shall be limited to three (3) minutes at the discretion of the
Chair to discuss the agenda item and shall not be allowed additional time to speak
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 2 OCTOBER 8, 2013
during the meeting. This rule is designed to accommodate those who cannot be
present throughout the meeting to speak when the agenda items are heard. After
the conclusion of the eighteen (18) minutes, other members of the public shall be
allowed to speak pursuant to Council Rule 12(e).
JADE K. FOUNTAIN-TANIGAWA, Deputy County Clerk: Council
Chair, the first speaker will be Tom Perry followed by Lorna Poe.
Chair Furfaro: Tom, can you start by introducing yourself?
My Staff will be keeping time.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
TOM PERRY: My name is Tom Perry. I am the current
Director of the Hawai`i State Teachers' Association (HSTA) and I have been in that
role for eighteen (18) years. Today, I will be speaking as an individual. First of all,
I want to thank you all for your due diligence in regards to Bill No. 2491. I am here
to try to tell you how we got here and why teachers are speaking about this. In the
school year 2007-2008, teachers started to call me from Waimea Canyon
Intermediate School saying that they were getting sick and they could not
understand why. They had to start closing their windows to teach class, otherwise
they would become sick along with their kids. At first, I was very skeptical. I could
not really understand how something like that could be going on for the island of
Kaua`i, so I started visiting the school. When I visited the school, there is a field
that you can see on the second floor from the west side of Waimea Canyon
Intermediate School that looks out towards the west. There is a large field there.
The teachers started to actually videotape the spraying that was going on. Many
times, we had to try to talk with the administration and Syngenta, who was
spraying in the field. Well, nothing really happened and we were not able to stop
any of the spraying until the day of January 25, 2008. On that day, the Kona winds
were blowing very hard and teachers called me and said, "We are really sick here.
We have kids sick here. Everyone is getting sick. We need you to come here to try
and stop this." I drove out there and that morning when we got there, there were
ambulances in the courtyard by the health room where the students were getting
sick in large numbers, along with the teachers. From here, they did send the kids
home. They did send the kids to the hospital. This was the first time anywhere on
Kaua`i where we had anything of this nature, this magnitude happen. We had to do
something further. Teachers, parents, and students organized. We had to make
signs, went out, and held signs in front of the main highway. We also had to do
something else. We could not find another way to stop the spraying except we had
to file, for the first time in the history of HSTA, a temporary restraining order
(TRO). From that temporary restraining order, we went to Judge Kathleen
Watanabe and with the lawyers and our attorneys, we were able to stop the
spraying. What I am saying to you now is teachers have been healthy since that
time, but we need your help now so that can you put the types of protections in for
the island of Kaua`i because this is now expanded to such a great deal for this
island. Please help us. Please help fight and protect the island of Kaua`i.
Chair Furfaro: Tom, I need one clarification. You are
speaking on behalf of yourself or HSTA?
Mr. Perry: Myself. HSTA has already submitted
testimony in favor of this Bill.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 3 OCTOBER 8, 2013
Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much, Tom. Next speaker,
please.
LORNA CUMMINGS-POE: Aloha and good morning. My name is Lorna
Cummings-Poe. I am a mother, grandmother, and homeowner in Hanapepe
Heights. The garden in (inaudible) that has helped to sustain my family sits up
against the seed company's test field and inadequate buffer zones lay between us. I
have watched seed company employees between 4:00 a.m. and 5:00 a.m. in dark
mornings with the wind blowing while they are spraying. They are dressed with
protection; we are not. I often wonder why they do this while my family and
neighbors sleep. The health of many in our communities is being seriously
compromised by pesticide spraying on thousands of acres here on our tiny island.
United States (US) has the highest rate of cancer deaths on the planet. While one
(1) in two (2) males die of prostate cancer and one (1) in eight (8) females die from
breast cancer— one (1) of ten of these cases are genetic, but nine (9) out of ten (10)
are environmentally triggered. Many laugh and say that these statistics do not
affect our island people. I say "why should we wait to see?" All this is allowed to
maximize food production and profitability for food industries. I call it "empty food,"
food lacking nutrition and their profitability; I call it "greed." Biotech companies
enjoy huge profits. They provide work for our family and friends. The employees
deserve more; more pay for the health risks they confront themselves with daily.
We cannot continue to ignore the fact that these pesticides have affected our dead
reefs, salt beds, and sea life that sustain our people. The protection, safety, and
health of the people you are elected to serve are being compromised. Bill No. 2491
has been watered down to favor biotech companies and not the health and welfare
of Kaua`i's people. If biotech companies are unwilling to divulge necessary
information, there should be an immediate moratorium. What are we waiting for?
A previous comment made by a Councilmember and the red shirts, in all honesty, "I
do not know much of you. I grew up with most of the blue shirts." Most of you are
so-called "red shirts" from the west side respect the close relationships we share
with those who work for seed companies. They are our friends and family, too. We
are your friends and family. We watched you grow up and play ball. There are
hundreds of westsiders who are supporters of Bill No. 2491. We choose to keep the
peace. You are a remarkable and compassionate group of leaders. I have supported
many of you in different campaigns for political office. I have walked house to house
for you. I pray that my manc o will remain in your hearts and minds, and the
health of the people and our aina remain foremost in your vote on Bill No. 2491.
Mahalo me Iesu pa.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you, Lorna. Next speaker, please.
JOAN KUTZER: Hi, my name is Joan Kutzer. I am a
Registered Nurse here on Kaua`i. I have been here since 1984. I have worked
everywhere from Ha`ena to Kekaha in my time here from childbirth to end of life
care. I am on the Executive Board of Hawai`i Nurses Association which has
endorsed Bill No. 2491. I have cared for children with respiratory distress following
pesticide drift exposure. As a health care provider, it is essential that I know what
pesticides are being used so that we can quickly and accurately treat our patients.
Please amend the Bill to allow health care providers to sign up to receive the good
neighbor courtesy notices. As a health care provider, I am morally obligated to
promote health. The American Academy of Pediatrics (APA) and the American
College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists have both made statements this year to
counsel their patients and to push for stricter environmental control of pesticide
applications and environmental hazards. Speaking with my colleagues on the west
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 4 OCTOBER 8, 2013
side at some meetings that we have had, they talked about the very high incidents
of birth defects that they are seeing in their community; much higher than is the
national rate. It is a very small community, so every baby born with a congenital
defect is a tragedy. Where I work now, even though the numbers are not supported
by the statistics, we see clusters of young people with reproductive organ cancers
and colon cancers. We need more epidemiological research into these findings. We
know in our hearts that it is there. I just want to thank you for listening and please
support the Bill.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much for your testimony,
Joan. Our next speaker is Carl Berg.
CARL BERG: Aloha Councilmembers. Good morning. My
name is Carl Berg. I am testifying today on behalf of myself as a Marine
Biologist/Ecologist. I have read through the proposed amendments for Bill No. 2491
and I have serious concerns about the adequacy of them to protect the humans,
marine life on the beaches, streams, estuaries, the ecosystems themselves, and all
the services they provide. I feel that a five hundred (500) foot buffer zone must be
in place along the shorelines. This is to protect the people on the beach, but also the
rare and endangered species like the turtles and the monk seals that are on the
beaches that are being sprayed. There are also the shorebirds and other animals
that are listed there that would be affected by spray along the shorelines. These
shorelines are the nursery grounds for our fisheries. It has been shown repeatedly
that pesticides are endocrine disruptors that can mess up the reproduction of the
animals. If these fishes, et cetera, do not reproduce properly, then we are not going
to have near shore fisheries. I feel a two hundred fifty foot (250) buffer zone is more
appropriate for perennial inland waterways and that would be the streams, rivers,
lakes, and ponds. All of these types of waters are defined in Hawai`i Administrative
Rules (HAR) 1154 and I will ask that you look at those because you should not be
just arbitrarily coming up with new definitions of the kinds of waterways. The term
that you have in the amendment is that the "waters that flows to the ocean" must
be removed. The State makes no distinction between whether it goes to the ocean
or not, and the fact that you put up a dirt berm or a gate does not keep that water
from going into the ocean; it percolates. All of our drinking water on this island is
percolating through the land, down to the base. All the pollutants that are put into
the ditches and streams percolate down, even though it does not flow. Just like our
Legislators are only actually in the Capitol Building a few months of the year, the
rest of the time they are on recess; these streams are streams all the time, whether
or not the water is flowing. To allow them to be sprayed year round, even though
they just flow a short period of time, is not the right way of looking at it. We have
to recognize that anything that goes into the land will percolate down into our
water, and that will go right out onto our beaches. Again, that will not only affect
public health, but all of the baby fishes and things like that that are in those places.
Chair Furfaro: Carl, that is your three (3) minutes.
Mr. Berg: Okay. Thank you very much. Aloha.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you, Carl. May I have the next
speaker?
ELIF BEALL: Good morning, Councilmembers. Thank you
for the opportunity to testify. My name is Elif Beall and I am a local attorney
practicing here on Kaua`i. I am one (1) of nine (9) attorneys who signed a joint
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 5 OCTOBER 8, 2013
statement in support of passing a strong and robust Bill No. 2491. These attorneys
include retired Hawai`i Supreme Court Justice Steven Levinson; Kapua Sproat,
Law Professor at the Richardson School of Law; George Kimbrell, Senior Attorney
at the Center for Food Safety; Peter Schey, President and Attorney for the Center of
Human Rights and Constitutional Law; Alan Murakami, an Attorney at the Native
Hawaiian Legal Corporation, who signed in his personal capacity; Paul Atchitoff,
Managing Attorney of Earthjustice; and two (2) other local attorneys, Teresa Tico,
who is the former Kaua`i Bar Association President for Kaua`i; and Harold
Bronstein. Each of these attorneys was provided with the testimony of both legal
proponents and opponents of Bill No. 2491. Each attorney reviewed and approved
the joint statement before signing on. I will submit the full statement in writing,
but I just want to highlight a few points here. "There has been much debate about
whether Bill No. 2491 is legally sound, regardless of how necessary it might be."
We believe that Bill No. 2491 is sound and the mere threat of a lawsuit by industry
interests should not prevent the Council from taking action that they believe is
important to their community. Attorneys experienced in these issues have given
the Council volumes of detailed legal analyses supporting the Bill's legality,
discussed these issues with the Council, and made their analysis publicly available
for critique, yet Bill No. 2491 opponents have not supported their campaign of
intimidation with any legal explanation. No thoughtful, experienced attorney will
offer blanket assurances about how any lawsuit will be decided and the Bill
presents some cutting-edge legal issues, but the State expressly granted the County
the authority to protect the health, life, and property of its people from just these
kinds of threats. No law expressly prohibits the County from taking this action and
no court case has clearly blocked the County from passing and implementing this
Bill. Moreover, ordinances with similar provisions have been passed elsewhere and
have not been successfully challenged. We feel it would be unfortunate if the
Council were to allow any well financed opponent to determine public policy merely
by threatening to sue. If a vote is being based on the belief that the Bill will be
struck down, we see no meaningful basis for that concern." Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much for your testimony.
Our last speaker is Christi Demuth. Do you have a video presentation? Okay.
Please introduce yourself and I believe your piece is exactly three (3) minutes long.
Am I correct?
CHRISTI DEMUTH: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you.
Ms. Demuth: Good morning, Council. My name is Christi
Demuth and I have a video from some west side `ohanas that they would like you to
see.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much.
(The presentation from Christi Demuth is playing.)
Ms. Demuth: I have a copy for each of you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much. At this point for the
Clerk, it is our intent to go to the Consent Calendar. For the audience,
subsequently it is my intention to go into Executive Session.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 6 OCTOBER 8, 2013
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
CONSENT CALENDAR:
C 2013-328 Communication (10/02/2013) from Council Vice Chair Nakamura
and Councilmember Yukimura, transmitting for Council consideration, a proposed
Resolution to implement an Environmental and Public Health Impacts Study
(EPHIS), via formation of a Pesticide and Genetic Engineering Joint Fact Finding
Group (JFFG): Mr. Rapozo moved to receive C 2013-328 for the record, seconded by
Ms. Nakamura, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1 (Mr. Bynum was not present).
COMMUNICATIONS:
C 2013-329 Communication (10/02/2013) from Council Chair Furfaro,
requesting the presence of the Managing Director, County Attorney, Director of
Economic Development, and the County Engineer, to provide the Council with a
presentation relating to the operational impacts that the passage of Bill No. 2491,
Draft 1, would have on the County: Ms. Nakamura moved to receive C 2013-329 for
the record, seconded by Ms. Yukimura.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. I will suspend the rules and ask
the Mayor and his Staff to come up.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
BERNARD P. CARVALHO, JR., Mayor: Good morning, Chair Furfaro
and members of County Council. Chair, mahalo to you for accepting my request to
come before you this morning to talk specifically about our thoughts and some of the
areas that we wanted to share with you on Bill No. 2491, as amended. As we all
know, there has been many, many hours of discussion, research, and listening to
different points of view in trying to figure out which is the best way to do the right
thing for the people of Kaua`i and Ni`ihau. The public participation has just been
truly amazing overall, so we want to thank you folks for opening up the discussion.
We are hopeful that everyone involved and the result of this measure really takes
into account the best interest, like I said, of everyone.
Exactly a week ago today, we received the actual Bill so we could actually
review the Bill. My Administrative team, who is here today with me, have been at
it to assure that the Bill itself as printed is something that we needed to look at and
really strongly look at all the different parts of it. I did fly over to Honolulu
yesterday to meet with Russell Kokubun from the Department of Agriculture and
some of the Governor's key Staff members and Cabinet members. We had a lengthy
discussion yesterday along with the Legislative team. I have been out and about as
well, trying to listen, hear, understand, and at the same time, focus on today's
discussion specifically to the Bill. In my discussions with Mr. Kokubun and the
Governor's Cabinet members, I feel very confident. I have their full commitment of
working together to come to a document or an understanding of what everybody's
role is and how this whole issue can move forward, again, in the best interest of all.
I feel confident of that in my discussions. Again, my discussions with the Cabinet
members— which you are going to hear that right now as we step-by-step through
each part of the Bill, and seeing some of the areas that are concerns and some of the
areas that I feel we have total opportunity to really have an open dialogue with all
of the key players or the key people, so we can come up with an understanding
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 7 OCTOBER 8, 2013
overall. Thank you, Chair, for the opportunity. I am going turn it over now to my
Managing Director Gary Heu and Mauna Kea Trask from the County Attorney's
Office, as we go through this particular discussion at this time.
GARY K. HEU, Managing Director: Good morning, Council Chair Furfaro
and Councilmembers. For the record, Gary Heu, Managing Director. Thank you for
the opportunity of allowing us to be in this discussion with you this morning. I also
want to thank each and every one of you for all the hard work that you guys have
put into the discussion on this Bill so far. I want to start off by saying that the
presentation we are going to make can be summarized by the second bullet, which
is "things to consider" because we totally understand that it is the Council's
responsibility to draft and put forward legislation. We definitely respect that. We
also think it is our responsibility to at least weigh in on various issues and work
with you to consider certain things that we see taking place as this Bill develops
and moves forward. Our comments today are based on a snapshot of the amended
Bill which has changed since it was originally introduced. It is our understanding
of that amended Bill as it exists today. Perhaps, additional clarity will be provided
as the discussion of this Bill continues today. I would ask that you please not
misinterpret anything that we say today as being obstructionist in nature. We
want to work with this body and others to find meaningful and an appropriate way
to address the issues that have been raised in this current public discussion. What
we would like to cover today, number one, the legal impacts; things to consider;
resources that we believe we require to implement the Bill as we know it today, the
amended Bill; some additional concerns; and then we will wrap up with suggestions,
if we may put some of those forward for the Council's consideration. To lead off the
presentation and get into the first bullet regarding the legal impacts and an
overview of those impacts, I am going to turn it over to Deputy County Attorney
Mauna Kea Trask.
MAUNA KEA TRASK, Deputy County Attorney: Aloha Chair and
honorable Councilmembers. Thank you for this opportunity. Per your request,
Chair, I prepared a presentation regarding the legal impacts overview. My
presentation will provide an overview of what legal operational steps need to be
taken in order to implement Bill No. 2491, as amended. This is going to be similar
to the discussion that we had on the floor the other day at Council. This is the
operative section of the Bill as they stand now.
Mr. Hooser: Can you speak a little louder, please?
(Mr. Bynum was noted as present at 9:12 a.m.)
Mr. Trask: Sure. They pertain to disclosure, pesticide
buffer zones, the Environmental and Public Health Impacts Study (EPHIS), and
rulemaking. Again, the purpose of this Bill is to establish provisions to inform the
public and protect the public from any direct, indirect, or cumulative negative
impacts on the health and the natural environment of the people and place of the
County of Kaua`i by governing the use of pesticides and genetically modified
organisms (GMO), and the penalties associated with any violation of this article or
laws, rules, and requirements that may be authorized by this article. This is the
purpose as stated of this law. It is no more complex, neither is it more simple than
that. The operative terms being to inform; protect; direct/indirect, cumulative
negative impacts; health; natural environment of the people and place of the County
of Kaua`i; governing the use of pesticides and genetically modified organisms;
penalties associated there with; and violation of this article or the laws, rules, or
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 8 OCTOBER 8, 2013
any requirement that may be authorized by this article. That last point pertains to
rulemaking so it is not only this ordinance itself, but any actions and rules, even on
the Administration side via Office of Economic Development (OED), which they
would promulgate there, too. Thank you.
Alaka i means to "lead, leadership." The Administration would be led by
those operational actions taken and be guided when having to adequately fulfill the
operative terms contained in Section 22-22.2, "The Purpose." Again, to generally
inform, protect, and govern. The direction is set, but the path to fulfill that would
have to be prepared and implemented. Hooka means to "fulfill." Our obligations
under Bill No. 2491, the Council and the Administration as well as the
Departments, would have to fulfill tenants of the Bill via rulemaking, enforcement,
and the enaction of the EPHIS. Those are the avenues that we can take to fulfill
the Bill.
Here is a little bit on the rule making process. Again, this is just the dry law.
This is what would be required. First would be drafting. The drafting of the Bill—
whether it is in-house or outside professional services... in this respect, given the
nature of the circumstances and the area, the most likely would be the outside
professional services, a highly technical area of law, and probably best behooved by
getting someone who is an expert in this. After drafting of the Bill, we most likely
have to deal with the Small Business Board Review under Hawai`i Revised Statutes
(HRS) 201(m) and then also proceed via the Hawai`i Administrative Procedures Act
(HAPA) under HRS Chapter 91, specifically Section 91-3. Both of these legal
procedural steps, Small Business Board Review and the rulemaking under HAPA,
will necessitate public participation. Small Business Board Review will have to
specifically include input from potentially affected small businesses. Briefly, small
businesses are defined under Chapter 201(m) as "companies employing less than
one hundred (100) full-time or part-time employees." Obviously, it is understood
that the commercial agricultural entities that this Bill seeks to regulate are not
small businesses. However, there has been testimony on the floor, if you recall, that
there are small businesses involved in this industry. I think one gentleman from...
he was a pesticide vendor. I think "BEI" or "BMI"— I forget. This does have a
potential impact on small businesses, even though the primary corporations
probably are not considered small businesses. Nonetheless, we would have to go
through that process. Both a Small Business Board of Review's public hearing at
Department of Business, Economic Development, and Tourism (DBEDT) and the
rulemaking under HAPA provide avenues for administrative and court challenges...
just a matter of fact. Thank you.
Again, the enforcement elements. We discussed this briefly the other day at
public hearing. Enforcement would pertain to disclosure portions, as well as
pesticide buffer zones. The law itself basically states at this point that any violation
of this article subjects a person civil penalties, as well as criminal penalties. It is
not just buffer zones and the right to know. If an applicable Commercial Ag entity
does not disclose, they are violating the article. If pesticide buffer zones are not
implemented, they are violating the article. The elements there for disclosure;
pesticide— the Commercial Ag entity may purchase and use an access of five (5)
pounds or fifteen (15) gallons of restricted use pesticides, and they disclose uses of
all pesticides per Section 22-22.4. As far as disclosure relating to GMO, the
elements would be Commercial Ag entities; intentionally or knowingly possess— it
is a state of mind requirement; and disclose per Section 22-22.4(b). These are just
the basic elements as contained in the ordinance itself. Under HRS 701-114, it lays
out additional criminal elements. In a criminal context, it would have to be proven;
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 9 OCTOBER 8, 2013
example: jurisdiction, venue, identification. The alleged violation occurs within the
application statute of limitations, which the misdemeanor is two (2) years, et cetera.
Those are not included today. The elements for the pesticide buffer zones are
Commercial Ag entities, purchase/use in excess of five (5) pounds/fifteen (15) gallons
restricted use pesticides. Again, they would need to restrict the use of all pesticides
as specifically stated in Section 22-22.5. The reason why I included this slide is
because this is based on my experience as a litigating attorney. This is what the
attorneys would have to prove in order to enforce this law. Ultimately, enforcement
would be via court action.
Enforcement is basically civil and criminal context. Although they are
different avenues with different legal issues, both will necessitate the use of expert
witnesses because of the subject matter. When cases are filed against alleged
violators, whether in civil or criminal contexts, prosecutions will provide an avenue
for validity challenges. What I mean by this is that cases across the Country
illustrate that even in a criminal misdemeanor context, the validity of such laws
may be challenged. What this means is that normally, a prosecutor— this is just to
give you an idea based on my experience; you have criminal laws and you deal
within the criminal code. In Hawai`i, there are no common law crimes. Everything
is a crime as defined or laid out in the "seven hundreds" portion in the HRS.
Usually, you do not see constitutional challenges very much. You do not see validity
challenges of law because it is all via code. However in this case, there are cases
that show that the validity of the law can be challenged. I just wanted to put this in
to illustrate to you that initially, it would be a more complex criminal case to
prosecute because our prosecutors would have to prove their criminal elements, as
well as possibly deal with potential constitutional challenges and whatever
challenges there might be. You have heard descriptions of them briefly on the floor
from advocates on both sides.
Moving on the EPHIS or study. The study will necessitate both community
involvement and technical expertise per the general description of the EPHIS.
Consultants need to be familiar with State and Federal laws on the use of pesticides
and GMOs, and they must adequately address the purpose of the Bill and fulfill the
County obligations while maintaining consistency with superior regulatory
authority. The reason why I put this in is because there is a lot of product out there
currently regarding this area. I, myself, have downloaded the REDs, which is the
"Reregistration Eligibility Designations" of all eleven (11) registered use pesticides
in Hawai`i: Alachlor, Atrazine, Bromacil, Chlorine Gas, Chloropicrin, Cyanazine,
Hexazinone, Metolachlor, Paraquat, Picloram, and Simazine, as well as
Chloropyrophos, per the request of Councilmember Bynum. For a total of
approximately two thousand five hundred eight (2,508) pages of very technical type
of evaluations and documentations, these look at everything from environmental
toxicity and dietary affects. They really run the gambit. This is per Federal law.
The County would be entering into a preexisting regulatory structure. The
consultants and the public would need to know all this stuff. That is the end of my
presentation. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Heu, you have the floor again.
Mr. Heu: Thank you, Chair. Now we are going to get
into the operation side of the Bill, the potential impacts, and things that we would
ask the Council to consider as you continue to work and deliberate on this Bill.
Once again, I would like to say that this is based on a snapshot of the amended Bill
as we understand it today. We might be wrong and we would welcome further
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 10 OCTOBER 8, 2013
clarification. Number one is we believe that the timetable may be unrealistic. There
are inconsistencies in the Bill in its current form in terms of having different
implementation dates identified. There is a January 1, 2014 date that is identified
in Section 22-22-5(a), and then there is a six (6) month implementation date set out
in Section 4. We believe that both of those intervals are not realistic based on all
the work that would need to be done by the Administration once this Bill is passed.
As Mauna Kea pointed out, there is the drafting of rules which would require
significant research— the Small Business Regulatory Review Board. These things
are not unique to this Bill. There are many ordinances that are passed which
require that State and local government go through these processes. Again, it is
nothing unusual; we are just saying to please provide us with adequate time to
implement effectively.
As you folks probably know, the rulemaking may be a lengthy and
contentious process. Just some examples— not necessarily of contentious processes,
but of lengthy processes, the "value added products ordinance" which allowed for
value added products that are at our markets, took approximately nine (9) months
to draft those particular Administrative Rules. The "grading and grubbing
ordinance" and the Administrative Rules that accompanied those took us about ten
(10) months to promulgate those rules. The park rules to better manage our
parks— those Administrative Rules; we are at twelve (12) months and counting
right now. Due to certain challenges to certain components of those rules, it is hard
to determine how long that process will be hung up, so we just put that on the table
so that there is an understanding of the process, and particularly with the Bill, that
is as complex and involved as this particular Bill, we would ask for your
consideration to provide adequate time for that process to take place.
Continuing on to the next slide is the lack of resources for implementation
during the given timeframe. Again, we only raise these concerns so that we all go
into this with our "eyes wide open" in terms of what it might take to actually
implement. Regarding our manpower— and it is not being critical of the current
manpower that we have within the County, but the existing workforce does not
necessarily have the capacity to take on additional complex issues or initiatives
while we continue to just deal the day to day responsibilities that we have now.
Over the past years, because of our fiscal situation, we have asked all of our
employees to do more with less. They are trying their hardest, but as we continue
to layer on additional responsibilities at a certain point, I think it adds into the mix
of certain inefficiency factors. Training our existing workforce does not necessarily
possess the knowledge based or experience to develop the necessary enforcement
mechanisms. That does not say they cannot; that just says that we need to help
that workforce become more proficient at that. As the Bill currently exists, there is
no funding for manpower and the hiring of consultants or training provided, so we
would ask you to at least consider that as we continue to discuss this Bill.
Enforcement— I do not know if I want to use the word "problematic," but I
would say it is challenging at its best and I think that goes not just for this
particular Bill or ordinance, but for many that have already been put in place. I
think we have had some of those discussions on this very Council floor. One thing
we would say as legislators and lawmakers, sometimes there are ordinances and
laws put in place which take a very "broad brush approach," and then a lot of the
detail is left to the administrative rule making process. Because of the complex and
contentious nature of this particular Bill, we would ask for the Council's
consideration of being very specific as you guys continue to develop this Bill in
terms of legislative intent. It would be very helpful for anyone who needed to
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 11 OCTOBER 8, 2013
implement the provisions of this Bill to clearly understand what the intent of the
legislative body was when you pass this Bill. Relative to enforcement is it the vision
of this body that it is complaint based or is it something that the body would like to
see proactive efforts be put out by the Administration? Based on that, that could
determine the level of resources that we would need to provide for that enforcement
to take place. What would trigger an inspection? We are really unclear at this
point in time. Again, we are hoping for additional clarity as we move through this
process. The question is where do we draw the line? We would ask for the Council's
help in drawing that line and making those determinations. I think it would make
enforcement and implementation that much more effective when we get to that
point. We anticipate that just because of the discussion that is currently going on in
our community, we would anticipate that we will be fielding numerous complaints
and possibly some complaints that may not deserve our serious attention. We
would need to discern how to handle that. Currently in the Bill, there is no ability
to discourage frivolous complaints, and certainly, that is a concern of ours. Again,
what is the legislative intent? What do you folks envision and your articulating
that would definitely be of help to us. Regarding the buffer zones and the
enforcement of those buffer zones, we feel that currently the delineation of those
proposed buffer zones are not clearly defined. We need to be able to easily identify
boundaries upon visual inspection, and currently, we are not sure how that is to be
done. Again, we would ask for your consideration.
Timely access to properties needs to be ensured. I believe in State law
relative to the Department of Agriculture's responsibilities. I think that is provided
for. I do not see that necessarily provided for in the Bill and we would at least ask
for your consideration of at least discussing that issue and possibly putting that in
the Bill, so that it is very clear in terms of our authority to get onto property that we
would need to provide inspections for. Again, the discussion of the lack of
knowledge, experience, and necessary skill set within our County workforce—
whether it is the Office of Economic Development or as previously discussed, Public
Works; we are not certain why there was a shift from Public Works to the Office of
Economic Development. In either case, we would need to provide the tools and the
training for the personnel in either of those Departments in order to carry out
enforcement under this Bill. Here is an example— identifying of pesticides and the
conducting of civil and/or criminal investigations. The magnitude of the potential
penalties makes it necessary for investigations to be complete, prompt, and
efficient. That is not just specific to this Bill; that goes for all types of enforcement
that we are involved in. Again, we want to put that out for Council consideration.
The potential need of dedicated staff who would really need to be, in many cases as
we envision this, able to respond immediately to those complaints in order to a more
effective investigation. Adjudication is also something that we need to really
consider further. The cases could be complicated and time consuming, which again,
is not unique to this specific Bill, but it is something that needs to be considered due
to the complexity of the issues that we are dealing with. We feel that an abundance
of scientific evidence and testimony may be necessary to successfully prosecute
and/or levy fines, which you folks have provided for in the Bill. Proper investigation
is the key to success. Again, that is something that is common to all the types of
enforcement we are tasked with carrying out. We believe that there should be
consideration for an appeals process established in this Bill. We have such an
appeals process in the Grading and Grubbing Ordinance, and we think that should
be considered in this Bill as well.
I am not going to go through this flow chart because number one, not
everybody can read what it says and number two (2), it is just an example. There
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 12 OCTOBER 8, 2013
are so many instances that we would need to draw flow charts for but we just
wanted to illustrate. You folks can go through this on your own later. There is
nothing scientific or professional about this. It is just as we started to step through
what enforcement might truly look like and all the hoops that we would need to
jump through, we came up with this as one potential scenario. Again, we offer that
to you for your reading pleasure when you are able.
I guess this next one is what you can call "the ask." What would we need to
implement this Bill? I have touched on some of the things for your consideration
but when we look at rule making, we would propose to hire a consultant to assist us
in drafting the rules. There are Administrative Rules that we have had in-house
expertise for, such as the value added products ordinance or bill. We did draft that
in-house, but again, because of the complex nature of this particular Bill and the
subject matter, we really would feel more confident, as we develop these rules, get
some professional help. We feel that there needs to be a working knowledge of
Federal, State, and local regulations related to GMO, pesticides, and agriculture in
general. There needs to be working knowledge of the process involved in
investigating a complaint and successfully adjudicating these complaints. Relative
to disclosure, as far as manpower, we think we would need a minimum of one (1)
specialist and two (2) full-time equivalent positions within OED or Public Works or
wherever the Council decides to place this responsibility. As I reviewed the
disclosure section of the Bill it exists today, there are any number of things that
could trigger a possible violation; therefore, requiring follow-up and additional work
on the part of the Department. Other resources and infrastructure that might be
required within Information Technology (IT)— this is still a question mark for us.
We have been in discussion with our IT folks and have not gotten a clear
understanding of the potential costs there, but wanted to at least put that on the
table for your consideration.
Resources needed to address buffer zones. Again, manpower to respond to
complaints, conduct inspections and investigations, and refer for adjudication.
Again, within OED as it is currently identified in the Bill, we would propose one (1)
full-time equivalent for investigation. That could change based upon the final form
of the Bill. It could be less; it could be more. It really all depends on where the Bill
is headed. Relative to the County Attorney's Office, we believe that we would need
a hearings officer, much as we hire hearings officers for things like Transient
Vacation Rental (TVR) enforcement issues. I will get into more specifics a little
further on in the presentation relative to what they might be in terms of costs to the
County. In addition, there is your basic training and administrative costs for
investigation, legal personnel, and investigative tools. We have just thrown some
things together and come up with the estimated costs for that.
Regarding resources for the proposed study, we see this in two (2) different
components. First, there is the joint fact finding group that would need to be
convened. We would need a consultant to lead that effort and OED manpower to
manage the contract. Some of that might be able to be absorbed within the current
personnel and expertise, but certainly a consultant to lead that discussion. When
we get to the study, we would probably procure a consultant to lead that effort, and
then again, have OED manpower to manage the contract.
On the next slide, a quick and dirty type of matrix showing the Bill
component which would drive the cost items. In the third column over from the left,
you have "estimated costs" that we have plugged in there, fringe benefit as it might
apply to an actual County employee that we have identified to do the job, the total
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 13 OCTOBER 8, 2013
costs, and the agency which would be requiring those resources. We have identified
whether or not those resources would be a reoccurring type of cost or a onetime cost.
We have shown the approximate date that we would need those resources based on
the current form of the Bill. That is all subject to change based on where the Bill
goes.
One thing that I wanted to point out relative to the hearings officer is that is
an estimated cost at fifty thousand dollars ($50,000). That is on a per case basis
because... and we are using as a basis for that, what we are currently paying for
hearings officer expense with our TVRs, so we are using that as a basis to
determine what those costs might be. Again, it could be more; it could be less, but
where we wanted to at least plug something in there for your consideration. Those
would be on a case by case basis and a reoccurring cost. We will try to wrap this up
soon, but for the Administration's concerns, I think everybody would agree that this
is a highly technical subject matter with many layers of regulation already in place
at the Federal, State, and County levels. That requires an extraordinary level of
detail in the ordinance and supporting rules to minimize impacts of any potential
litigation. It is our belief that we should not rush this ordinance and
implementation process. We should take the time that we all need, both at the
Council and at the Administration, to make sure that we are doing it effectively.
Bills of this complexity generally take one (1) year or more to vet. For your
consideration, I put on the floor the time that was spent on the Affordable Housing
Ordinance, Farm Worker Housing Ordinance, TVR legislation, and Shoreline
Setback. I think that some of you have been involved in many of those ordinances
and clearly understand the complexities of putting together a good bill.
Investigations must be air tight in order to effectively enforce and adjudicate.
Again, this is not specific to this piece of legislation. This goes for all the various
types of enforcement actions that we take. Again, we need to have qualified
investigative personnel, appropriate training, appropriate investigative tools, and to
make sure that we have the right internal processes in place. They must be well
thought out and strictly followed. There are no legal questions and potential
challenges. Mistakes we may make along the way could be potentially very costly to
this Council. I know all of you appreciate that as much as we do. We believe that
we will be challenged and we just need to be prepared to defend.
Now we are at our final slide and it is the smallest portion of our
presentation, but we think that it is important to put this before the Council. We
feel that we need to fully consider the legal issues. The Mayor has asked for an
opinion from the County Attorney regarding this particular Bill. We do not feel that
the passage of this Bill should be rushed. We feel that there should be time for
outreach for the Department of Agriculture to see how they can support and assume
enforcement of the amended Bill's intent and consider amendments that may be
necessary for the Department of Agriculture to participate as a full partner, as we
believe they should. If the Bill is passed, we ask for your consideration including
guidelines for making complaints; include penalties for frivolous complaints;
provide realistic timeframes for implementation; and provide necessary resources
for implementation to the various Departments who will be involved in
implementing this Bill whether it is OED or Public Works, the County Attorney's
Office, Finance, IT, and/or the Office of the Prosecuting Attorney. Before I turn the
floor back over to the Mayor for his closing remarks, we have had this discussion on
the floor at other times as we have deliberated other bills. We would ask that the
Council allow yourselves sufficient time to draft a law that can be easily and
effectively implemented. We talk about that all of the time when we talk about
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 14 OCTOBER 8, 2013
Real Property Tax ordinances and the implementation of those laws. We just ask
that you take that into consideration. Again, I spoke about the "broad brush
approach" to drafting legislation which is a lot more specific relative to legislative
intent, and we would strongly encourage the Council to spend time looking at the
specifics because I think the end product will be better for everyone involved.
Again, providing efficient time and resources to effectively implement. I want to
thank you for the time, Chair and Councilmembers. Now, I will turn it over to the
Mayor.
Chair Furfaro: Gary, there is going to be question and
answer for you before I turn the floor over to the Mayor.
Mr. Heu: Absolutely.
Chair Furfaro: I will leave it up to you folks though.
Mr. Heu: I think the Mayor will go ahead and close.
Mr. Carvalho: I will wrap up and we will open up for
questions and answers.
Chair Furfaro: Okay.
Mr. Carvalho: Thank you, Chair Furfaro and
Councilmembers. We really took the time to look at this, as you can see. We talked
about the legal impacts overview, tried to look at the things to consider, give you a
menu of options and opportunity to continue this very extensive dialogue all with
the intent of coming up with something that can better serve all of the people of
Kaua`i and Ni`ihau, resources needed, Administration's concerns, and of course,
suggestions. We tried to offer you a menu of discussion pieces that we have gone
through within this past week. At the same time, reaching out, going to Honolulu
and meeting with the Department of Agriculture, sitting with Mr. Kokubun, sitting
with the members of the Governor's cabinet, talking to our legislative team from
Kaua`i, and looking, asking, and seeing what is the best way to make this work for
all of us. I know it is a very sensitive and complex issue, and we all have our own
issues we have to look at collectively. I think with the information we have
provided for you gives us a framework and understanding of how much this
particular issue is... there is more work to be done. With that, I am asking for your
consideration for a deferral to give us time to look at this. We have done some of
our homework within this short period of time, but I truly believe that with the
commitment and understanding from the people who should be at the table talking,
we can come up with something in the timeframe that can give us a better
understanding of where we should be and how we should manage this for the
betterment of the people of Kaua`i and Ni`ihau. With that, thank you for your
consideration and time. Thank you to all the people sitting here and listening. I
truly believe we have an opportunity to talk this thing through. Mahalo.
Chair Furfaro: Members, are there any questions for
Mr. Heu on his presentation?
Mr. Heu: Chair, just to make note, we do have other
members of that Administration here and available if there are very specific
questions that anyone wants to address to a specific Department Head. We folded a
little bit of the Prosecutor's Office information into our presentation, but we also
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 15 OCTOBER 8, 2013
have someone representing the Office of the Prosecuting Attorney here in case you
would like to hear a little more from them.
Chair Furfaro: Since we are going to have our time with
Mauna Kea, he can vacate that seat and if we have specific questions for other
Department Heads, they can come up.
Mr. Heu: Sure.
Chair Furfaro: First of all, thank you for the presentation,
Mayor and Mr. Heu. One of the components here that I did not see is how can we
do some outreach with the existing resources we have? For example, I did not see
any consideration... we have a Hazmat team and fire stations which seven (7) of
them are located where they are considered as first responders for the complaints—
how could their role be enhanced? I know the Mayor is aware that we have done a
lot of individual outreach. I have met with Kokubun twice, flown to Hawai`i island
to talk to the beekeepers, correspondence to the Governor, and correspondence to
the Feds. I think a lot of research has gone on over the last sixty-five (65) days that
we have been working on this. I just wanted to point that out. For now, I will
identify members for specific questions. If you do not mind, I will start at that end
of the table.
Mr. Hooser: Thank you. I have a few questions. I do not
know where to start. Mayor, if I could ask you; the Bill actually has not... we have
been talking about disclosure, buffer zones, and a study since the beginning. I am
trying to think about what is so complex? The study is the study, disclosure is
pretty straightforward, and we have buffer zones. To me, it is somebody with a tape
measure, some surveyor tool, or whatever to measure distance. The Department of
Health and the Department of Ag have been here, and we have been reaching out so
I am not sure what a "deferral" means. You want to delay passage of Bill No. 2491?
Is that what you are asking?
Mr. Carvalho: I am asking for a deferral, as stated before
you, and listed all the reasons why. This the first time I have seen the final product
of the Bill. Yes, there were buffer zones and pesticides involved throughout this
total conversation, but when you look at the details and being responsible... who is
responsible? I want to make sure, so talking it through and listing all the
information before you— that is why I wanted to assure you that we did our
homework and looked at many of the different areas laid out for you. It is not as
easy as taking a tape measure and going out there, from what I have gathered. I
want to make sure that if this happens, we have the right people, resources,
understanding, follow-up, and everything because it is not as simple as people may
think. I want to make sure that we have the right resources or directing it to the
right place so we can really develop strong relationships and managing this overall.
Mr. Hooser: I agree with you. I believe we need to have
the right people and the right resources in place. We need to pass a law that is
going to be enforced, so I am on board with you there.
Mr. Carvalho: Okay.
Mr. Hooser: I guess where we differ is on the degree of
complexity of the issue. What does "deferral" mean? Does it mean one (1) week?
Ten (10) days? What kind of deferral are you asking for?
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 16 OCTOBER 8, 2013
Mr. Carvalho: From our discussions, I am looking at two (2)
months or so. We are going to have to sit down and talk this thing through from
what I have gathered so far. Within this one (1) week, I know we have been talking
but to look at the existing Bill in its form and seeing where we need to really
manage this and look at it. I would say that is about the timeframe we have been
talking about on this side.
Mr. Hooser: So that would push it into early parts of
approaching the Legislative Session by the State also, I think, through the special
session that is scheduled for the end of this month and into an election year also.
Mr. Carvalho: We did talk about that. I do not want to say
one (1) week or two (2) weeks. I want enough time so our team in our discussions,
we feel a two (2) month period can get us to a place where we have something more
manageable.
Mr. Hooser: Okay. Thank you, Mayor. Mr. Heu, on your
list of projected expenses that you had on the board, I saw two (2) full-time
employees and a hearings officer; that would be the reoccurring personnel costs. Is
that correct?
Mr. Heu: Yes, although I do know that in some
informal discussions that we had with the Prosecutor's Office, there were some
concerns that there might be additional requirements.
Mr. Hooser: On your projection that you had for us, I
believe it was two (2) full-time and a hearings officer.
Mr. Heu: Yes.
Mr. Hooser: Okay. We need a hearings officer... there
are five (5) entities so far that are impacted that we know of. We need a hearing
officer for that?
Mr. Heu: Well, it is not so much the number of entities
that we are dealing with; it is the number of complaints that is going to drive that
and the type of complaints.
Mr. Hooser: Okay. You mentioned one hundred
twenty-five thousand dollars ($125,000) is needed as of December 1, 2013. That is
what you say in your report.
Mr. Heu: Right.
Mr. Hooser: Of course, you are aware that the Tax Office
and the Department of Finance has issued a letter saying that the companies,
because of the non-payment of property taxes on State leased land now owe the
County one hundred thirty-one thousand dollars ($131,000). You are aware that
money is available. It is not budgeted for. In theory, that money is sufficient to pay
these costs. You are aware that money that is not budgeted, I guess, is the
question?
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 17 OCTOBER 8, 2013
Mr. Heu: Yes. We were not trying to determine where
the funds would come from; we are just saying that these are the costs. However we
all choose to deal with that is how it gets done.
Mr. Hooser: I think you did allude to not knowing where
the funds are going to come from.
Mr. Heu: I do not believe I said that.
Mr. Hooser: Anyway, I want to make it clear that there
are funds available that are not budgeted now directly from the entities being
regulated that may be available if the Administration chooses to use for that initial
cost.
Mr. Heu: Sure. Chair, if I could just address
something that Councilmember Hooser previously asked. When you asked about
being uncertain as to the complexities that we are seeing with the current Bill;
number one, I would say that in the section of the Bill that covers "disclosure," I
think you guys did a really good job of being incredibly specific in terms of what you
are looking for, and I think that is helpful as we look towards implementation.
However, in some of the other areas, it is a little more wide open and subject to a lot
of interpretation.
Mr. Hooser: There are only two (2) other areas; one is the
study and the other are the buffer zones. If you say that disclosure is pretty
straightforward, I want to hear you say yes.
Mr. Heu: I think it is pretty detailed.
Mr. Hooser: I think most of us would acknowledge that
the buffer zones need some more work.
Mr. Heu: Right.
Mr. Hooser: I think we are prepared to make that work.
The only other area is the study and this County has done plenty of studies in task
forces and workshops in the past. I guess that is what frustrates me because I do
not see the need for big science when all we are really talking about is clarifying the
buffer zones. We are only talking about five (5) companies that need to have
enforcement and we have got two (2) full-time people that you are proposing that I
think would be more insufficient.
Mr. Heu: Yes. I guess when I am talking about
complexities, I am saying that we are dealing with a subject matter that we are not
currently familiar with. As an example, if there is a complaint that comes in
relative to spraying within a buffer zone; how do we determine what was sprayed? I
think there just needs to be a lot of training. I think there needs to be a lot of
thought in terms of how we are going to approach that sort of thing. When I talk
about complexities, I guess I am bundling in the technicalities of it all.
Mr. Hooser: I think that is one reason, too. As the Bill is
written now, it says "all pesticides," so we would not have to determine which
pesticide because it is all pesticides. Like most legislation and most bills, I think we
would count on the companies who offered to voluntarily do this to comply with the
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 18 OCTOBER 8, 2013
law. The start date of the law is six (6) months from approval. I think that would
give some time for the Administration to gather itself together. It is not uncommon
for laws to be implemented without the rule making complete. I think in most
situations that is the case. If during that time period it was discovered a need to
amend the law, that would even give the Council time to amend it further between
now and six (6) months from now, if that was the case. Will that work?
Mr. Heu: I guess we just see it a little differently
because we can see the type of interest that has been generated in the community
relative to this particular Bill. I think there would be strong calls for action the
minute the Bill was approved. All we are saying today is to let us have an
understanding of that because that is going to come our way, and let us be prepared
for that.
Mr. Hooser: Thank you very much. Thank you, Chair.
Chair Furfaro: I am going to go to Councilwoman Yukimura,
and then I will go to Mr. Bynum.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Mayor, Gary,
Mauna Kea, and Steve. I do appreciate that you are here today to engage in the
conversation about this Bill. When I introduced both the Shoreline Setback Bill and
the TVR Bill, the Administration was not part of the discussion even though we
invited them to be part of it. It was extremely difficult to write a law without
having the people who would be enforcing it present and talking about what their
needs would be, what their viewpoints were, and the things that we had to consider
in drafting the laws so I appreciate that you are here today.
In proposing the amendments that Council Vice Chair and I proposed, we
were really trying to make the Bill simple to enforce. I will tell you that if you were
to add the moratorium, permitting, and ban of open-air back in, you would not
believe the kind of enforcement issues that would become apparent, so this is a
simpler enforcement issue right now as we look at it. I agree that we should really
make it a good Bill that is easy to enforce and start there. In the week between the
passage of the amended draft and today, I have been looking carefully at the
provisions because I am not comfortable with all of them that are there. Right now,
the one hundred (100) feet from residences... or five hundred (500) feet from
residences... until you can do a soil conservation plan, I am really worried about
that although we have been trying to research the Natural Resources Conservation
Service which advises companies on soil conservation plans, and their doors have
been shut due to the Federal furlough. In fact, even their website has been
shutdown. That is how difficult it has been to think through these pieces. I have
been out in the fields trying to look at distances. Actually, where you measure from;
if there is a property boundary and a field boundary, where you measure from is
going to be an issue. Do you measure from the farthest point to the farthest point?
That is where I know rules and regulations come in. People think that a water
truck is a pesticide, so if there is a water truck in the area and people are not real
familiar, they will call and say, "I have seen somebody applying pesticides in a
buffer zone." It might be a water truck or it is fertilizers which are sprayed also.
There situations where there will be false reports, either intentionally or
unintentionally, that will have to be processed. I think there are issues that we
have to look at.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 19 OCTOBER 8, 2013
On you are issue about the rules and regulations and hiring a consultant— I
do not think you need a consultant. I think given all the research that Mauna Kea
Trask has done, he has pretty much become an expert in the area of both pesticides
and processes because he has been a key researcher. I want to commend him for
the amount of work he has done on this, and he has become kind of our in-house
expert on it, but it does mean his time will be allocated to that if he is the one who
writes the rules so there are issues of staffing that I acknowledge if we keep it
simple. One of the things that we were looking at, right now the Bill is written that
there shall be no pesticide use within the buffer zones whether it is one hundred
(100) feet or five hundred (500) feet. Vice Chair, can I mention what we have been
thinking about? We have been thinking that maybe we should amend it to say "no
commercial crops" within one hundred (100) feet or five hundred (500) feet because
that would make it real clear; you can just almost eyeball it. Now, they have this
fancy little instrument that can actually measure site by some kind of visual take
instead of that little wheel that you roll to measure distances. An inspector could
just learn how to use that and just visually see where there are crops or no crops.
Now in discussions about this, the companies would have to figure out a cover crop
because nobody wants bare land. They would need a cover crop that does not need
pesticide spraying. In order to manage that space within, but it would be visually
more enforceable; easily enforceable. There is a question of if you say "no pesticide
use within the buffer zone" and somebody says there has been drift in the buffer
zone, is that use of pesticides? There are these issues. For the solution we are
looking at, is that something that would be easier for you to enforce?
Mr. Heu: Yes. Councilmember, I feel like I would be
speaking out of school on that particular issue. I am not sure if there have been
discussions regarding your proposal with the companies that would be affected and
their ability to do that and be able to actually manage that in terms of what you are
proposing with the cover crop.
Ms. Yukimura: I have initiated some conversations with
them to see what their issues would be if we would change the amendment to ban
"commercial crops" instead of ban "pesticide use," with the assumption that if you
do not have crops there, you do not have to use pesticides.
Mr. Heu: Relative to the more technical aspects of how
we determine that that is a valid buffer zone distance— again, we probably have
some technical people who could provide better input than the Mayor or I on that.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. My other question is about the
Department of Agriculture because, Mayor, you are saying that you want to work
with them?
Mr. Carvalho: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: Prior to passage of the amendments that
Vice Chair and I worked on, we spoke to the Department of Ag, asking them if they
would enforce any buffer or disclosure requirements that the Council passed in an
ordinance because they are more qualified in terms of trained personnel; although
the number of personnel is an issue. They are more trained. They have set
procedures, so we thought that this kind of intergovernmental cooperation might be
a good solution. As I mentioned at our last meeting, they said they did not want to
because of the lack of personnel, but they also left an opening to us inviting us to
submit a draft memorandum of understanding (MOU) to propose that they could
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 20 OCTOBER 8, 2013
review. We have been so busy that we have not actually worked on an MOU...
actually, I think our Staff has, but we have not had a chance to review it. Is that
the kind of cooperation you are looking at?
Mr. Carvalho: Like you just said, you folks have been
meeting and I wanted to share with you that I just met with them yesterday to
follow through and get the commitment that what is before me, based upon the
information we have received on Tuesday. There is a commitment. To talk about
the specific areas, I am going to say that I have a commitment from the Department
of Agriculture with the support of the cabinet members to work on this particular
issue.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. There is a request, both from the
legislative body and from the Mayor now, before the Department of Ag asking them
"will you help us?"
Mr. Carvalho: Right.
Ms. Yukimura: Are you thinking that in two (2) months
between the Administration and the body that has to pass the law, that there might
be a way to get some agreements about enforcement?
Mr. Carvalho: I am hoping. I can say six (6) months or a
year, but I am not going do that. I thought maybe in our discussions, when we sit
together and sort through all of this, I think we can come up with something that
we can at least get to a place we can talk about with the discussions that I have
had. You folks have had that as well.
Ms. Yukimura: Well, the discussions will have to get pretty
specific.
Mr. Carvalho: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: This body or some representative needs to be
involved in that if we are going to be talking about the exact provisions that have to
be either amended or continued. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Bynum, you have the floor.
Mr. Bynum: Good morning.
Mr. Carvalho: Good morning.
Mr. Bynum: Thank you very much for being here. Gary,
you used an expression a minute ago— "speaking out of school." Did I hear that
correctly?
Mr. Heu: Yes.
Mr. Bynum: I just want to say that was helpful for me
because what I see in the last few weeks is a lot of "speaking out of school" from
both sides of this issue. I very much appreciate you being here and this
presentation. I think it is thoughtful and understandable and you are expressing
logical concerns. I see it as helpful and as kind of being a "worst case scenario."
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 21 OCTOBER 8, 2013
That is what you should present to us like "if we have to respond to complaints" and
"if we have to enforce criminally." Those are worst case scenarios, right? I really
want to use the time I have to help us work closer to our common goal of effectively
doing this. First of all, I really appreciate this flurry of activity like talking to the
Department of Ag and the Governor because that is what I have been trying to do
for six and a half (6.5) years. Are you aware that the leadership of the Department
of Ag has been hostile toward these provisions in public record? Bills that the
Mayor has testified against, the Department of Ag has testified for. Are you aware
of that history?
Mr. Heu: Not specifically, no.
Mr. Bynum: I will move on from that. Have you spoken
to the seed companies in this flurry of activity about these implementation
concerns?
Mr. Heu: I have not personally talked to the seed
companies.
Mr. Bynum: If I asked "what are the two (2) most
common practices of the seed companies here" and "how are they using our land?"
Are you aware of how they use their fields and subplots, for instance? Do you guys
know about that practice?
Mr. Heu: There are probably people within the
Mayor's team that know of that practice.
Mr. Bynum: Okay. My understanding from the
companies themselves is that they primarily do two (2) things here on Kaua`i;
research on different iterations of genetic seed, and they do that by taking a big plot
and diving it into many subplots, and each one is an experiment. They also have
larger plots where they grow parent seed. Those are the two (2), but what we know
from this data is that these subplots... they keep very detailed records of every filed
they spray, which subplot, what day, and how much. I believe they are meticulous
on those records. I do not think enforcement is that complicated. If you have a five
hundred (500) foot buffer— we do not know how this is going to turn out, but let us
say it is five hundred (500) feet from residents. I just heard a proposal where we
are going to say that you do not grow any crops. I have never proposed that. We
say to Kaua`i Coffee to "kill all your coffee trees that are thirty (30) years old if they
are within five hundred (500) feet of the ocean." No, we are going to say "do not use
pesticides within five hundred (500) feet of the ocean." There are alternatives.
People can do manual labor and take the things out. Yes, it costs a little more. Let
us look at those things. In terms of enforcement, the disclosure is already here. If
we are assuming that the provisions that passed out of Committee pass, they are
going to be telling us on an ongoing basis, in advanced even, and in post-disclosure
of what they are spraying and where. They would have to actually have to falsify
their records and commit fraud to create a situation where they violated this law.
They would have to doctor their own records. These are business people. They are
not going to do that. I believe, and I would like you to look at those, that their
practices are so different and you have to look at what they are doing. If they gave
us those records and disclosure, determining whether they sprayed in the buffer
zone or not will be simple, right? It will be very simple unless they go out there at
night, falsify their records, and do it, and then that would be worst case scenario
where they purposefully went out to try to falsify. They would not only be lying to
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 22 OCTOBER 8, 2013
the County of Kaua`i, but lying to the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and
the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA). They are not going to do
that. I have known most of these people for eight (8) or ten (10) years. I would
really ask you to look at that. Is it really as complex as it appears if you look at
their practices? The disclosure will help us do the enforcement pretty simply in my
mind. Please look at that.
Mr. Heu: Can I respond? I think that is a really good
point. As I was going through that section of the proposed Bill, again, as I
mentioned to Councilmember Hooser, it is pretty specific. I think it is all good as
long as people comply, but that is what enforcement is all about. If we use your
example and apply it to any given law that is on the books, it would all be good if
everybody followed every step of every law but we know as a practical matter that
sometimes that just does not happen, and then we are on the hook for the
enforcement
Mr. Bynum: I want to follow that line. The County has
dozens of laws with similar civil and criminal penalties that we rarely, if ever,
enforce. People comply with most laws. There is a law that says "do not drink too
much and drive." I comply with that but we have enforcement for people who do
not.
Mr. Heu: Exactly.
Mr. Bynum: We do that enforcement because we know
people routinely break that law. We have a whole bunch of zoning codes that we did
not enforce for years until recently, right? We have those laws out there because
most contractors are going to follow the law and we have inspectors to do
enforcement. In this instance, we will have data and records to do enforcement. We
will know if they have done so. It will actually be quite simple, unless we assume
that these major corporations are going to be flagrant law violators and falsify their
records. I would ask the seed companies to tell me if what I am saying is not
accurate, that they are not already keeping records that will allow us to simply
determine whether they have sprayed in whatever buffer limits. I agree with
JoAnn that if the moratorium was in there, we would have more complex issues. I
wish it was and I wish we were dealing with them, but that is not what we are
dealing with today. I want us to work these things through. I also have a process
issue, which is if we are going to keep working on this Bill, it should happen in
Committee. That has been our process. I was fine with working out... I have
amendments that I proposed in Committee because I was not a member that never
got considered. Some of those ideas got incorporated in other amendments and I
appreciate that because that is collaboration. Do you acknowledge that we have
dozens and dozens of laws on the books that we do not routinely enforce because
there is not a big compliance problem with them, generally speaking? They are
there in case somebody does something outrageous. Is that correct?
Mr. Heu: Again, I think that is why we brought up the
one consideration which is what is the legislative intent in terms of how we
approach enforcement? Is it on a complaint basis only? Is the expectation that we
are going to go out there proactively to deal with this?
Mr. Bynum: That is the next thing I want to go into. This
Bill, in no way, intends to relieve the Department of Ag or Department of Health of
their responsibilities. If somebody feels that they have been exposed to drift, there
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 23 OCTOBER 8, 2013
already is someone to respond. This Bill is not about the County of Kaua`i
responding to things that Ag... it is about putting buffers and protections. There is
a difference. This assumption that I see around the table that we are going to have
to enforce complaints on a routine basis... most of those things that people complain
about are already the responsibility of the Department of Ag and the Department of
Health. Is that correct?
Mr. Heu: I believe so. Again...
Mr. Bynum: Whether they fulfill those responsibilities or
not is a different discussion.
Mr. Heu: Right. I think it would be naive for us to
think that we implement this and that whatever agency is responsible for oversight
and enforcement is not going to be fielding a lot of calls.
Mr. Bynum: I am saying if somebody feels that they have
been exposed to drift— that is not in the Bill and that is not in our enforcement
expectations. Our enforcement expectation is if we pass a Bill that says "do not
spray this area," you will not. If somebody sprayed some other area and there is an
allegation of drift, that is the Department of Health or the Department of Ag's
responsibility. There are great people out there. I had a very long conversation
with Thomas Matsuda who testified here... mid-level manager and that guy is doing
best he can to do his job. He is a good employee, but just does not have enough
resources to do it. It is at the leadership level where elements of the Department of
Ag have been hostile to the County of Kaua`i over the last six (6) years. We have
funded a study that they messed up.
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me, Mr. Bynum. I need to have it
posed as questions.
Mr. Bynum: I was listening to JoAnn have similar
dialogue and...
Chair Furfaro: She ended hers with questions.
Mr. Bynum: I will continue to pose questions.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you.
Mr. Bynum: Will you look at whether the disclosure that
is required in this draft of the Bill and talk to the seed companies about the records
that they keep? That will go a long way to alleviating your concerns about the
enforcement of that portion. If we were here talking about open-air testing and
other elements that have currently been removed from the Bill, we would have to
have a more rich dialogue about enforcement but for what is left of the Bill. I do not
see these costs. Were you consulted with the move from Public Works... that JoAnn
and Nadine proposed moving it to the Office of Economic Development?
Mr. Heu: I personally was not consulted. We became
aware of that when the amendments came over.
Mr. Bynum: I think it was in Public Works because they
have lots of personnel experience with doing environmental assessments and
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 24 OCTOBER 8, 2013
coordinating contracts with consultants around environmental type studies. Is that
correct?
Mr. Heu: Public Works?
Mr. Bynum: Yes, Public Works.
Mr. Heu: We could possibly ask Larry Dill who might
have a little more insight than I do.
Mr. Bynum: I said publicly that I thought there was
strong leadership in both Departments and I had faith in both Departments to
administer this. Pragmatically, I think Public Works has more experience. I would
assume that regardless of which Department is Keith Suga, our Capital
Improvement Projects (CIP) Coordinator, would be part of the team that would help
do this?
Mr. Heu: I am not sure what the nexus would be there.
Mr. Bynum: It is a CIP project. If we do a study... what
is the difference between building a road and doing landfill studies? They are
administrative studies.
Mr. Carvalho: We will decide...
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me, Mr. Bynum. I will give you the
floor after 10:30 a.m. because we have to take a break here.
Mr. Bynum: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: You still do not want the floor?
Mr. Rapozo: I guess he waived his time.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. We are going to take a break now for
ten (10) minutes.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 10:27 a.m.
The meeting reconvened at 10:44 a.m., and proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: I am going to call this meeting back to order.
I am going to make a housekeeping announcement here. Over the next ten (10)
minutes, if you do not return to your seat during the break, my Staff will allocate
your seat to the waiting list down below. That is in the next ten (10) minutes. On
that note, we are going to start the meeting again. I will recognize the Vice Chair.
Mr. Bynum: I thought I was going to have the floor.
Chair Furfaro: We are going to go around again,
Mr. Bynum.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you very much for being here and for
your presentation this morning. I wanted to ask a question about the funding that
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 25 OCTOBER 8, 2013
is needed as of December 1, 2013. How do you come up with one hundred
twenty-five thousand dollars ($125,000)? What line items are you assuming?
Mr. Heu: In other words, I think what you would do is
if you take a look in the "needed" column to the far right, and you see when the need
would come in, and then you sum up the figures in the associated column.
Ms. Nakamura: Okay, so that would be for the consultant for
the joint fact finding study, the EPHIS, and then for the consultant to do the
rulemaking.
Mr. Heu: Yes, that is true based on what is currently
identified in the Bill.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you for clarifying. This table is very
useful and I just wanted to say that in your text, you also talked about the need for
equipment and for training, but I do not see the numbers in this table.
Mr. Heu: I think there are investigative tools... four
(4) down; fifty thousand dollars ($50,000) and the training is down at the bottom for
fifty thousand dollars ($50,000).
Ms. Nakamura: Okay— fifty thousand dollars ($50,000) for
training and fifty thousand dollars ($50,000) for investigative tools.
Mr. Heu: Yes. Again, that is our best guess at this
point in time.
Ms. Nakamura: Right. I heard some Councilmembers sort of
discounting the need for enforcement of the buffer zones. Is your feeling that that
one staff would focus on enforcement or is your desire to have the State do that
portion of enforcement?
Mr. Heu: If we are answering very honestly, we feel
that there are things that are identified in the Bill, including what you just
mentioned, that really should come under the purview of the State. We believe that
they have the authority to do that via their rulemaking process. I think that is part
of what the Mayor was alluding to when he says that we would respectfully ask this
body to consider a deferral to provide time to enter into a truly meaningful
discussion with the appropriate State entities, including the Governor, the
Department of Agriculture, and the Department of Health.
Ms. Nakamura: If the Governor is saying that he would like
to work with the Legislature to restore positions in the Department of Ag and
Department of Health that were cut over the years because of the recession and if
we are able to restore those positions, then is the idea that the County would not
have to hire additional enforcement personnel?
Mr. Heu: Yes. I think that if you look at the provisions
of the Bill as it exists now and you ask, "Can this be accomplished either via
rulemaking at the Department of Agriculture, Department of Health, or via
legislation at the State Legislature?" We would love to see that happen. I think
everybody sitting around the table would love to see that happen. There is a
question as to whether that would really happen.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 26 OCTOBER 8, 2013
Ms. Nakamura: The only rub here is that we are not going to
know until the end of the Legislative Session if those positions will be created
through funding within those two (2) Departments. That kind of coincides with our
own budget making process. When does the Legislature conclude? May 1st. That
will give us the feedback as to what we need to include in our budget, so if they
include three (3) enforcement positions, which I think have been talked about that
might service Kaua`i, then would that be the thing that we do not have to put it in
our budget come March 15th?
Mr. Heu: That would be ideal.
Mr. Carvalho: That would be the overall idea.
Ms. Nakamura: Then our budget making is not really
complete until the end of May. At that point, let us say the end of May we know
what the State is going to do or we supplement by putting that position in your
budget, and then it takes about five (5) to six (6) months to hire someone.
Mr. Carvalho: Correct.
Ms. Nakamura: Then to go through training because whether
it is State or the County, we have the same fiscal year and the funds are not going
to be available until July of next year if funding is made available. What I am
thinking of is that it will take from July to the end of January to actually hire the
inspectors. Then to train the inspectors would be another two (2) to three (3)
months. Really, my thinking is that we can begin enforcement, best case scenario,
April 2015 to actually have the funds secured. There might be some snickering in
the crowd, but I want to let you know that when I put funding in for our first
Transportation Planner for the County of Kaua`i, it took over a year to hire. It was
a difficult process. The first time we hired a position, similar to this case— it would
be the first time we are hiring an enforcement position and we wanted to hire the
best person because once they are in the civil service system, it is very difficult to
get them out, so you want to go through a very good process. I just wanted to say
that because I heard some snickering in the crowd. Realistically, I am thinking that
to really begin enforcement, we are looking at the beginning of the April 2015.
During that whole time of the hiring process, you can amend the State or County
rules and regulations, and go through the Small Business Regulatory Review
Process. I think that is all the questions I have for now.
Mr. Carvalho: I appreciate the timeline that you laid out
because it kind of gives us a reality of what the timeline would take, so that is a
good thing. The second thing based upon what you just said; I can see our role in
this particular scenario with the State taking on the lead and we providing a link on
the Office of Economic Development's website that will take people to the
information that they would need— just a small example, but I think it is a big
thing. That is the kinds of discussions of where we can fit in to assist and to assure
that the people, should they choose to, have the information that they need. That is
just one small example I wanted to share.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo, you have the floor.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 27 OCTOBER 8, 2013
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Mayor
and Gary, and your team for being here today. I really appreciate the presentation.
I think this is the first time we have actually had the opportunity to look at a true
analysis of what this entails. I heard the snickering, as well, with the timeline that
Councilmember Nakamura put out. Unfortunately, that is the reality. This is not
something where we can just snap our fingers, pass the Bill... and I mentioned this
several meetings ago. I also mentioned several meetings ago... I am feeling very
satisfied now because I heard it from several Councilmembers that we should
approach the cooperation with the State. I got snickering when I said that as well.
In your discussions with the Department of Agriculture, Mr. Kokubun-
unfortunately, I did not get a chance to speak to him because he was traveling when
we went to see the Governor, but was there any discussion regarding 149(a) and the
opportunity or willingness to enter into an agreement under 149(a) that would give
the County the authority to enforce the State's pesticide law? Was there any
discussion with Kokubun about his willingness to work with the Counties in that
sense?
Mr. Carvalho: Councilmember Rapozo, it was just more
that they are committed to working with our County on the menu of opportunities.
Mr. Rapozo: So it is more generic?
Mr. Carvalho: Yes, and then gearing it towards the
commitment of assuring that once we get to a place where we can really come out
with things that we really need, that the support was there.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay. I appreciate that. I will ask if it is
possible as we go forward, that we would try to concentrate... I know we did ask our
Staff to try to prepare a draft MOU in compliance with the State law that we could
get the State and the County on board together soon, and that takes a signature
between you; the Mayor, and possibly the Department of Ag Chief. I do not believe
that would require any approvals by us here on the Council. I think that is purely
an administrative action that could happen within hours if the State decided that is
what they wanted to do. I think if we started off with that agreement, this
memorandum of understanding, and when all of these other moving parts are
moving, we can start the dialogue with the State at least to have the County start to
work on enforcing Chapter 149(a). I am assuming that it is your intent to work
with the State to— and I think I heard it a couple of times today; change the
Administrative Rules. Is that something that you would be maybe offering some
suggestions?
Mr. Carvalho: I want to say that it is our intent that we
work together to get that done, yes.
Mr. Rapozo: I understand that and I really appreciate
that because I have a lot of input what I think should be in the rules, but at the end
of the day, Mayor, it is really going to be your Administration's call but I appreciate
the offer to work with us, and the community as well. I just want to clarify what I
am hearing to make sure I understand your request because I can tell you that I am
not inclined... I was not inclined to support a deferral today because I do not think
the community should be put up to more time that... we want to get this community
healed up.
Mr. Carvalho: Right.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 28 OCTOBER 8, 2013
Mr. Rapozo: Looking at your presentation today, I am
just trying to find what the best solution is. I think you offered a very viable
solution and I will serious consider this deferral because of the timeframe...
basically, the roadmap that you have outlined today. I just want to get your general
feeling based on— I know you said that the Department of Ag was committed. Do
you think that they are committed to the level that they would allow the County to
work with them in some agreement fashion?
Mr. Carvalho: As I sit here before you all, I am going to say
"yes." This is such a critical and very sensitive issue for our island, so as leaders,
we need to really sort through this and think about what we are doing, and what
the best result is. If we hold everybody with their hats on, accountable, to each and
everyone's responsibility and mean it, then I think we are going to have an
opportunity to really do good things.
Mr. Rapozo: I agree. I guess I would think that the State
would be fools if they would not accept the County's offer to help in some way to
reach a desirable goal. I am hearing that it was pretty much a broad discussion and
not real specific into what we can and cannot do, but that is fine. I guess I am
hearing from you that that is the plan to sit down with them and...
Mr. Carvalho: Yes. If anything, I went through some of the
top issues, but not specific, so the commitment is there.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Kagawa, you have the floor.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you, Chair. Thank you for your
presentation, Mayor and Gary. I think Bill No. 2491 is the buffers and disclosures
in that Bill... the main reason why those are in there is because of the pesticide-
laden dust and the spray drift. I think that is the key, but who is going to do those
segments? Is the State Department of Health still going to be required to oversee
that component or is the County planning to have personnel try and determine
what is in the dust and if homes are being affected by spray drift? To me, I think it
is the State's responsibility. They have the medical experts, epidemiologists, and so
to determine health effects. Tom Perry talked about the Waimea Canyon incident;
that was clearly the State Department of Health who should have stepped in and
shut the school down or something. It is to that magnitude that he talked about.
Why is he here at the County telling us to oversee that component? It is the State
Department of Health and State Department of Ag. Again, they are here. I guess
they have lost faith in the State Department of Health, but are we working with the
State Department of Health as well? I see the State Department of Ag mentioned
in suggestions to work with them, but I think the State Department of Health is
really the key component to determine the pesticide-laden dust and the spray-drift.
Mr. Carvalho: We talked briefly, but as of recently, it was
more the Department of Ag. What I am saying is that we have to pull everybody
who is responsible to the table and get to a discussion piece. Once we do that, I
believe that in holding everybody accountable but not pointing fingers because this
is our part in this, too, so everybody is working hand in hand. It sounds kind of
sounds like "yeah right," but it is not "yeah right." This is a situation that has
totally gone back and forth. Anyway, yes, we have to figure out who should be at
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 29 OCTOBER 8, 2013
the table from all parts, hold everybody responsible, including us, and see how we
can sort through this.
Mr. Kagawa: Regarding the State Department of Ag, we
had them here on a couple of occasions, and I think a large part of their inspection
process is checking that they are licensed applicators for the restricted use. So, just
checking their license and they do not really watch what they spray or what they
do. They do not check wind conditions while they are spraying, but I think some of
what the local residents want is some assurance that when there are strong winds,
they will not spray on those days. It is just like us at home. We use Roundup
periodically and if it is windy, we will not use it because for one thing, it will not
work as well because most of it will miss the leaves. The second part is that we
want to be courteous of our neighbors. I think that is some of what we want. We
want the Department of Ag to do more than... right now, they feel like they are
doing their job and doing what is required of them per label from EPA and whatnot,
but I think some of what is in this Bill and what the local residents want is some
assurance that they are, in fact, following the label, not spraying on windy days, not
spraying closer than they should be next to running waters, or what have you. I
think we had a feeling that the Department of Ag felt like they were doing enough
or even more than enough, but actually, there is a sentiment of people of Kaua`i
that they should be doing way more. I do not know if you had those types of
feedback from Mr. Kokubun that there is some disconnect with what we want here
and what they are feeling at the State.
Mr. Carvalho: Yes. It is like showing up to a basketball
court to play football. The rules and everything— you are coming into a basketball
arena to play football; that is not going to happen. But the rules— we have to get
on the same page. And like you said about holding everybody accountable versus
just willing and able to support what we need do with the bigger picture of all the
people who are either emotionally just kind of challenged on this issue and are
afraid, and at the same time, trying to work on the other side of it with the business
part of it, yes.
Mr. Kagawa: The last part for me is that I think the
biggest question that needs to be answered is "how much of these health complaints
or accusations are really fact or fiction?" I think what we need is we need the
Department of Health to determine if the medical evidence correlates to the seed
companies use of pesticides. That is another one where we need to tie that in
because anybody can say that they got something from that, but I think we need to
get that link of proof before we say, "We do not want you here." We have to have
the evidence. I think that is what we have to work to and that is another area
where the Department of Health needs to step up. I think they need to even step up
more than the Department of Ag. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Hooser.
Mr. Hooser: Thank you, Sir. I think what is lacking is...
what I feel anyway is that I think many people feel there is a sense of urgency.
Have you met with the physicians at Kauai Veterans Memorial Hospital (KVMH)
who submitted testimony saying that they believe that there is higher level of birth
defects in newborns in their hospital than there is other places? Have you met and
talked with them or read their testimony?
Mr. Carvalho: No, but I have talked just in general.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 30 OCTOBER 8, 2013
Mr. Hooser: Okay. You have not spoken to Dr. Evslin?
Mr. Carvalho: No. That is why we want to bring them into
the mix of discussion, too, when we are talking about getting all people to the table.
Mr. Hooser: This is urgent. We have physicians who are
delivering babies who believe there are birth defects more in their community than
other communities. In my opinion, it is urgent. We do not have eighteen (18)
months or two (2) years to wait for if maybe or maybe not the Legislature is going to
do something. We do not even know what they are spraying. I appreciate the need
for dialogue; I sincerely do. But many would say the time for dialogue is past. We
need some action, and then we can have dialogue, too. We are talking about two (2)
efforts; doing the Department of Health's job and the Department of Ag's job. I
agree that we should push on the Governor, get them to the table, and try to get
them to recognize that we need funding, et cetera. As was said earlier, just because
the Governor, the cabinet level, and all good people go to the table, it does not mean
it is going to happen. We need to Senate and House to pass it, and Governor to
approve it, and then it is years... we have two (2) positions now that are funded that
are not filled. We have inspections that have not been done in years. We have that
problem with getting on the job. I agree, we should support that and push, help,
and do whatever we can to get them to do their job. In the meantime, I think we
have a responsibility also. This Bill calls for disclosure. We can have disclosure in
a month if we all said "yes." We would have disclosure of what is being sprayed in
our community... if the Council says "yes" and the Mayor says "yes"— we can have
disclosure immediately. We do not have to wait eighteen (18) months. We do not
have to hire anybody. We would have disclosure. We would have the right to know.
The State is not contemplating what I know of... there is no law that says they have
to disclose, so we are doing that. The same goes for the buffer zone. It is true that
we can charge these companies for the regulatory burden to regulate them. Is that
not true? I have a copy of the law here if you would like to look at it.
Section 46-1.5, number eight (8) says, "Each County should have the power to fix
the fees and charges for all official services not otherwise provided." We charge
permanent fees for houses and everything else. We can charge these companies to
provide the inspections. They can have a Cadillac, Oldsmobile, and whatever they
want— whatever we want, they can pay for it. They are some of the largest
companies in the world. We can charge them for it. Is that not true?
Mr. Heu: If we legislate that.
Mr. Hooser: Yes. We have the legal authority to do that.
Is that yes?
Mr. Carvalho: If we legislate that.
Mr. Hooser: Right, but the County has the authority to do
it. This is in today's Civil Beat. There is only one employee assigned to review
pesticide inspection reports. She says she has not gotten around to reviewing most
reports in several years. The Department of Health has no program to test
pesticide contamination soil, air, and water. The soil position on Kaua`i to monitor
dust has not been filled in a year. The same Environmental Health Specialist,
Department of Ag has reviewed only a handful of reports in past few years; seven
(7) of seventy-two (72) investigations for 2011 and 2012. We need to push on that
element, but in the meantime, I think what we are asking for with Bill No. 2491
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 31 OCTOBER 8, 2013
and what the people are asking for is the right to know. We can make our own
decisions if we know to a certain extent; the right to know and some modest buffer
zones to protect schools while we figure this thing out. It would be great if the State
would sit down, do a study, do an Environmental Impact Statement (EIS), and do
all of the stuff for us. In the meantime, we have a process to do a study to
determine the impacts. I do not believe that it is all emotion and all just fear. I
think there is some reality here, but we do not know until we do the work, and we
cannot count on the State. Mayor, do you support the disclosure provisions in the
Bill?
Mr. Carvalho: We said that before.
Mr. Hooser: You support the provisions in the Bill for the
right to know?
Mr. Carvalho: In order to get things done, you need to build
strong relationships. That is where I am at for me. I think at this point, I want to
target what you said about being urgent; we are all urgent. This is an urgent
matter for me, but at the same time, I do not want to go down the field ten (10)
yards and have to go twenty (20) yards backwards because we missed one of the
hash marks. I want to be sure that when we do this... because this is not just
tomorrow, this is a major issue for this island. I want to make sure that we as a
team, collectively— yes, we are going to take a little bit more time, but I am telling
you that the relationships are important with the guys in the State, House, and us.
I feel confident that if we take our time... I am not saying one (1) year or whatever,
but we are trying to manage this. If you are going to ask me if I support... I think
some of the discussions that I have had with some of the seed corn companies is
that they are willing to look at buffer zones and disclosure. I said that numerous
times, but there are bigger issues that we have to be sure that we come together on.
I am hoping that we can get to that point with a deferral, so we can really manage
this in a way that for myself, if you are talking to me as Mayor, I need to know. I
need to understand. We need to make the decision together, but I need to
understand for myself, too. I have been out there asking both sides. In one week's
time, I have this Bill, which is okay, so we are trying to sort through that and give
you the information of what our thoughts are laid out on the Bill itself, and then
look at bigger picture of how to make this fit. That is it.
Mr. Hooser: Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Chair.
Chair Furfaro: JoAnn, if you would like to go ahead, you
have the floor.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you. I agree with Councilmember
Hooser that I think disclosure could be done in a month. That was part of our effort
to make the Bill easily enforceable. What we sort of figured out in our heads
talking to Brandon and with the Director of Finance and Deputy's help, we talked to
them about what the logistics would be. I think that part can be done. I think
buffers are a lot more complex. Even while the Governor says he agrees with
buffers, the work that we are doing now to try to figure out exactly what those
buffers will be is what he is going to have to do, so whoever enforces it, I think that
the work that we are doing is going to be useful. Mayor, I heard that you wanted a
two (2) month deferral, which is what we are looking at right now, to see if we could
actually hammer out some issues with the Department of Ag. As Vice Chair has
detailed, there are ways to synchronize the finances and so forth. If that does not
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 32 OCTOBER 8, 2013
pan out, I guess I am thinking we would go forward with the Bill as finely crafted as
we can and to make it as easily enforceable, and then go forward as the County, still
keeping open to the Department of Ag's support as it unfolds, but not waiting
forever for them to step forward if they do not. Is that the Administration's
perspective of how that would unfold? We will do our best to work with the
Department of Ag, but if they do not step forward, we are still going to try and move
ahead with this Bill.
Mr. Carvalho: I want to make sure that we have this time
to sort through all of the information. At the end, we will regroup again and decide
what the next steps will be. I feel confident that in my conversations, we can get
some good, good information on the table to be able to move this.
Ms. Yukimura: I think you are right. I think
Councilmember Kagawa's point about the Department of Health is really key. They
have already indicated that they are willing to work with us on this EPHIS, the
Environmental Public Health Impacts Study that we are proposing. They are key
to this because there is a State Epidemiologist and they do have background, so on
that long-term study, they will be very important, as will the Department of Ag in
helping us on the pesticides issues, as will EPA and all the sources that people have
stepped forward. That is what this joint fact finding group will deal with, but not in
the form of Committee meeting to Committee meeting. It will be a more focused
group.
Mr. Carvalho: There is the whole legal issue, too, so we
have the whole package to look at.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes. There is the legal issue. I hope that the
Administration will see that probably the best way to settle the legal issue is to
keep it confined to the place where we have the most possibility of prevailing and go
to court, and see if we can establish at least that jurisdiction. If we cannot, i.e., if
the court says that the County is preempted, then we would know where we have to
go to apply the pressure. Let us find that out. One issue that Councilmember
Hooser raised about setting fees to pay for the regulation; I think that is a good
objective. The thing is that you still have to pass rules for that, so there is no way
to get to this process of enforcement without setting the rules up. I think that is
what you are saying we have to do. I would like to see it between six (6) months to
one (1) year is what I think it is going to take to set up the rules. Thank you.
Mr. Bynum: Thank you again for being here, Mayor. This
is the kind of dialogue that is warranted with an issue like this and I agree with
you. I want to stay moving forward. I want to say that agree with Councilmember
Hooser that there is a sense of urgency and disclosure, and buffer zones can easily,
in my opinion, happen quickly. If it takes us more than a month to establish
disclosure and buffer zones, then I do not believe we are doing our job. Information
is what this is all about. All of a sudden, everybody is getting this information; that
is great. Unfortunately, as I have gotten additional information during the last six
(6) or eight (8) weeks, it has brought up deeper layers of issues that our County has
to deal with related to this that are going to be followed-up in other ways. Buffer
zones— let us assume for a minute... the Bill that is moving forward out of
Committee does not have an open-air testing ban, moratorium, and those things
that really would be more complicated to enforce and to clarify, but buffer zones are
clear. Let us assume for a minute that we leave five hundred (500) feet from a
home. We know from data that we got from a Federal Court order was that they
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 33 OCTOBER 8, 2013
are dividing the fields into little pieces and they are keeping very accurate data. If
you had a home right here, and these fields are divided, the data that they already
collect will tell you when they sprayed, what they sprayed, and how much they
sprayed. If disclosure is happening, we know where those fields are and we know
what the subplots are, it will easy for the industry to keep those records in the
buffer zone. We can get the buffer zones going, and we should, right away. I agree
with Councilmember Nakamura in her timeline when there were snickers, that to
get the positions in place and all of these things done will require that much time.
We all know how that works in Government. The State, all of a sudden, is
expressing an interest when they did not very actively express any interest of
addressing these issues for a long time. Do you recognize that we can do the buffer
zones quickly? We do not need somebody out there to see it. They are going to give
us the data. It is fairly straightforward. Why would we not proceed with that? The
study is going to need a lot more work, but the Councilmembers have put it in the
Bill in a form where it creates a process to work out the details. For buffer zones
and disclosure, we can move now easily. Do you understand that?
Mr. Carvalho: I am hearing you; I am just concerned that...
Mr. Bynum: I already asked you to look at those issues.
Are you aware of this data that we received from a Federal Court order about
Pioneer's activities? Are you aware of that data?
Mr. Heu: I am not personally aware.
Mr. Bynum: Have you read Hector Valenzuela's paper on
the health risks on Kaua`i?
Mr. Heu: I personally have not, Councilmember.
Mr. Bynum: Have you read the American Academy of
Pediatrics paper that Dr. Evslin has presented around the community? It has been
available for weeks.
Mr. Heu: I have heard this testimony, but I have not
read his paper. I am not.certain what the relevance is in terms of this discussion of
how we move this Bill forward.
Mr. Bynum: I just need to know if our leaders are aware
that we recently found out that they are spraying huge quantities of pesticides
almost every day. Are you aware of that?
Mr. Heu: I have heard that. I have read it.
Mr. Bynum: Are you aware that the companies told us for
years that they did not do any practices differently than other farmers? Other
farmers do not spray pesticides two hundred forty (240) days a year. Other farmers
do not spray eight (8) pounds per acre. There is no justification for that. We know
that now. That is the secret that was kept from us. We can say "do not spray that
quantity and that frequency within five hundred (500) feet of my house, please."
Now, I showed the maps. Did you see the maps that we made that shows that it is
not going to impact ninety percent (90%) of their land. The vast majority of their
land will still be available to them, unimpaired. Why are they not just stepping up
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 34 OCTOBER 8, 2013
and say that they will voluntarily comply with these five hundred (500) feet? The
massive majority of their land will not be impacted.
Mr. Carvalho: I believe we can work with the seed corn
companies and all of our constituents to come to a place, like you, Councilmember
Bynum, that we can all understand how complex this is and how we can really
address it, and get to a place of disclose and buffer zones whether it is five hundred
(500), two hundred (200), or one hundred fifty (150). I visited just to see for myself,
so I think we are all trying our best to get educated as best we can and get to the
place...
Mr. Bynum: I appreciate that, Mayor.
Mr. Carvalho: I hear what you are saying...
Mr. Bynum: If you have not even read Hector
Valenzuela's paper...
Mr. Carvalho: Okay...
Mr. Bynum: If you have not listened to what Dr. Evslin or
Dr. Berg...
Mr. Carvalho: I have been out there talking and asking,
and that is point blank...
Mr. Bynum: I am glad you started.
Mr. Carvalho: I have not just started; I have been out there.
Mr. Bynum: You told us several times for a week...
Mr. Carvalho: I have been out there with our people. That
is my way.
Mr. Bynum: Mayor, I appreciate that. I do not want to
get into an argument with you.
Mr. Carvalho: I am just saying that do not tell me that I
have not been out there. I have been out there asking questions and trying to
educate and figure out what is happening on our community on both sides, so when
we as leaders come back, and we have the information we need and the connections
we have to make. That is all I am saying. Like you, you are passionate; I am
passionate, too.
Mr. Bynum: And we are going to work this out.
Mr. Carvalho: We are going to work this out.
Mr. Bynum: I know you are sincere.
Mr. Carvalho: And you are sincere, too.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 35 OCTOBER 8, 2013
Mr. Bynum: Last week, I wrote an op-ed page. Have you
read that?
Mr. Carvalho: I am sorry? You wrote a page?
Mr. Bynum: Last week Sunday's paper, I wrote an op-ed
page about my concerns and the secrets that were kept and what we discovered. I
hope today that if I get five (5) minutes that I can read it and put it on the record.
Yes, I am passionate. I have been working on this for six (6) years and what the
companies told us was not true. Now that we know the truth, we can start dealing
with it. We got this much truth, not because they gave it to us and not because we
ordered it, but because a Federal Court ordered it because people in Waimea are
suing the companies for dusting them daily. That is happening on our watch,
Mayor. This is our way to respond to it. I believe buffer zones and disclosure needs
to happen quickly, and can. We gave up permitting and that was a mistake in my
opinion, because that is a way to collect fees to help enforce this. We can come back
to that later. At some point, I think it will become apparent that that is also
necessary. I am encouraged by today. I am encouraged that this dialogue is
happening. I am frustrated that it has taken putting this Bill on to get people's
attention because you know we would not be discussing this and we would be in
status quo, which was the Department of Ag, Hawai`i Farm Bureau, and the seed
companies through Hawai`i Crop Improvement Association (HCIA) attacking the
County's authority to regulate building permits and public health and safety. We
know we would be at the status quo, so I would like to close with this. Do you agree
that this Bill has very positive things happening now that needed to happen?
Mr. Carvalho: There are positive things and there are not
so positive things. We have to look at the whole Bill itself. That is why we are here.
We looked at it. We dissected it. I wanted to make sure that we are talking about
it. We gave you all of our thoughts and ideas, down to suggestions and
opportunities that can help us work this through. That is what we did. I have had
a week to work on this. I know we have been all over the place, but I went over
what was written. Now, we are here. I wanted to be here. We wanted to come and
talk. I wanted to share some of the things that you folks have heard. Now, if we
can kind of wrap that up; I am here to see if the Council wants to defer this Bill
until we can get the information together. That is all I am saying.
Mr. Bynum: Thank you, Mayor. We can do this. You
kept saying a week...
Mr. Carvalho: I am just saying that when I got the actual
Bill...
Mr. Bynum: You are right; this issue is complex.
Mr. Carvalho: I understand that.
Mr. Bynum: A lot of people have gone to school over the
last sixty-five (65) days.
Mr. Carvalho: Just for me, Councilmember; there were a lot
of things that I did not even know about, but that is okay. We went in there. I did
not even know about some of these things, so we looked at it. That is why we are
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 36 OCTOBER 8, 2013
here and that is why we gave you the layout on what concerned us in these
particular areas. We also gave you suggestions and comments...
Mr. Bynum: I think they are good ones.
Mr. Carvalho: It is not just one sided. Thank you very
much.
Mr. Bynum: I think you are demonstrating really positive
leadership by being here and engaging in this dialogue. It warms my heart big
time. I think we will get there, but I am asking you please to read that APA paper
and Hector Valenzuela's paper. Find out the information we got from this.
Mr. Carvalho: We will read those papers to make sure we
get all of the information. I am totally open to all information.
Mr. Bynum: Okay. Look at what Dr. Berg has shared
with us in previous testimony and look at what Gary Gill has said. As we speak,
they are cutting funding for Natural Resources Conservation Service (NRCS); as we
speak, they have half... and the Department of Health is finding Atrazine in our
waters. Right now, today, and they have not tested the mud. They have not tested
the pieces that need to be tested. Thank you very much.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Members, is there anyone that
wishes to add any more? Thank you very much.
Mr. Carvalho: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. I would like to have a ten (10)
minute recess for the purpose of reviewing some particular process that reflects
what standard we should have, and then we will take testimony from others.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 11:30 a.m.
The meeting reconvened at 11:48 a.m., and proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: We will go ahead and take the first person
for public testimony on the Mayor's presentation.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The first registered speaker is Nomi
Carmona, followed by Lorrin Pang, MD.
NOMI CARMONA: Aloha, Chair and Councilmembers. My
name is Nomi Carmona representing Babes Against Biotech, an O`ahu nonprofit,
statewide. I see no justification for decreasing the buffer zones around waterways.
It kind of seems like that is an element we would really want to protect. As the
current revolving head of the Hawai`i Crop Improvement Association (HCIA),
biotech lobbying group, recently reassured the public no buffer zone will protect us
due to the amount of pesticides they are using. I am sure when you ran for office
that your purpose and your intent was not to decide that the keiki of Kaua`i should
be exposed to toxic industrial agricultural chemicals and genetic engineering at the
highest levels worldwide. This is the legacy that you will leave if you fail to pass
this Bill. I blame the corporations, executives, and the public relation (PR) lobbyists
for misinforming their employees who believe what they are told by the hand that
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 37 OCTOBER 8, 2013
feeds them genetically modified organisms, which are banned in thirty (30) of
thirty-two (32) developed countries. It seems as though this industry, in an attempt
to quiet the human beings that are being experimented on and exposed to these
experimental pesticides against their will, has initiated almost kind of like a
conspiracy theory from the other side of the table where they think that there are
all of these organic farmers and well-meaning philanthropists who have some kind
of ulterior motive. Our motive is very transparent. We do not want to be poisoned.
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me, I want to make sure that the
portion that is up for testimony at the moment is the item regarding the Mayor's
presentation.
Ms. Carmona: Perfect. I would love to talk about the
Mayor's testimony because the complications are great, but it is also very simple.
You have a decision to make of whether or not you are going to protect your citizens.
Regarding the Mayor and his decision to work with the State, I want to give you an
exact quote from the Governor; "You do not have to lobby me. I am here lobbying
you..." this is to the GMO industry. "You do not have to lobby Russell. You do not
have to lobby this Administration." That is what the Governor says. If you think
that Russell Kokubun from the Department of Ag is going to be reliable for us to
count on for protection, I think you are wrong. I think that is very naïve to assume
that the State will do what is needed to do in this case. If we want to make it work,
we have to make sure that we are all alive and well to continue. Regarding what
the Mayor said... I will try to limit it to that. We will consider any elected official
that is against this Bill to be demonstrating a willful endorsement of the continued
poisoning of Kaua`i and I will personally move here to organize and train our two
thousand five hundred (2,500) members to prepare canvassing teams and make
sure anyone who opposes this Bill and votes against it, or advocates for a deferral is
never in office to the best of my ability. By the way, your Mayor has taken four
thousand dollars ($4,000) of money directly from GMO companies; that is three
thousand dollars ($3,000) from Pioneer DuPont and one thousand dollars ($1,000)
from Syngenta as recently as May 2013, just after State Session closed last year.
Please pass the Bill. I love Kaua`i. I was not planning on moving here to canvass
your districts, but I will if I have to on behalf of our twelve thousand (12,000)
members. Mahalo.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Are there any questions? Nex t
speaker, please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Dr. Lorrin Pang.
LORRIN PANG, MD: Let me just introduce myself. I am Dr. Pang.
I am from Honolulu. I speak as a private citizen. My day job is the Department of
Health District Health Officer for Maui County. I had that job since the year 2000.
I have a degree and graduated with honors in Chemistry from Princeton University.
I have an MD Degree from Tulane. I also have a Masters Degree. I worked
twenty-four (24) years active duty at the Walter Reed Army Institute of Research. I
was a consultant for the World Health Organization (WHO) in Geneva since 1985 to
the year 2005. I cofounded the project which trained all of the researchers how to
do clinical studies. My job was to monitor and setup trials for drugs, vaccines, and
diagnostics. I came back to Hawai`i in the year 2000. I am a little bit appalled of
what is going on with GMOs and the use of pesticides, but I will speak specifically
to the issue that the Mayor brought up. Remember, I speak as a private citizen
today.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 38 OCTOBER 8, 2013
The Department of Health, Maui County, we monitor things— kind of like
what you are trying to monitor for your crops. We call them "transgenic crops,"
what you call them GMOs. I will give you an example of how we monitor. We
actually do this for sugarcane. The Department of Health demand that the
sugarcane companies make logs of when they start to burn, when they finish
burning, how much they burn, what the wind direction is from the start of burning,
what the wind direction is at the end of burning, and then other things they want to
note. There is a rule that they are not supposed to burn when certain wind
conditions like Kona Winds or inversion because it might gas the community. They
follow the rules and keep their logs. These logs— hundreds of times a year and
several times for when they do not burn. We go over the logs and we can find
them... I think we have done it twice when they did not follow the rules about
burning or not, and they do keep logs, when they kept a sloppy log. Nonetheless,
how good or bad they follow the rules, we also monitor, as we do now, for respiratory
illnesses. Maybe the rules have to be tightened up. Maybe the logs are fraudulent.
We are doing a study right now with the University of Hawai`i in Hilo, looking at
side effects or illness beyond the rules. That is just a background. I guess for
specifically what you are facing, the key to all of this is disclosure. It is kind of like
what these two (2) gentlemen were saying, "Tell us what you are using to begin
with. From then, once you tell me, eleven (11) compounds or twenty (20)
compounds in combination, how often and the pulsing that you are using." Then we
are supposed to scientifically design the study to look at this. You are kind of
shooting blindly saying that you are doing a study without the disclosure, and then
and only then are we supposed to set up the buffer zones because I cannot know
how far, the wind conditions, or humidity. Am I just kind of spouting this out? I
have been to the elementary school twice to the elementary school and three (3)
times for community meetings. I was the first one as a private citizen to look at
this. There are very tricky things. For example, we forced disclosure when the kids
first got sick and they were spraying with "compounds A, B, and C." Hey, that is
interesting. They are supposed to test for "A, B, and C," but they did not test for
"C." They promised and they did not do it. They claimed that it was not from the
company because the company was spraying "A" and "B," but we only found "A."
That is because in humid and windy conditions, "B" volatilizes so you do not see "B"
because it went away by the time you got there to test. You can see an outbreak
investigation, a study, or a buffer zone depends a whole lot on what you disclose
that you spray.
Also, I have asked for disclosure on Moloka`i Elementary School because the
kids get sick. I did not know that they were spraying so many pesticides, so I asked
for disclosure of the mutant GMOs and I compared it to other schools. I thought I
did a pretty good study. I went to Monsanto and said, "I wish you would tell me the
mutations you used during that month because all the schools got sick. The
community was blaming you, but all of the schools got sick... schools upwind of you,
so I am about to exonerate your mutation." They were mad. They said, "First of all,
we do not have to disclose and it sets a bad precedent if we do disclose, even if you
attempt to exonerate our mutation because next month, you will be asking and you
will be pointing out something bad." I was asking for disclosure of mutation GMO.
I think you should ask for disclosure of mutation, as well as pesticides. It starts
with disclosure, but okay, you guys are urgent. You set forth your best guess at
buffer zones. You set forth a study. Good. Fine. I saw the old study. There were
little problems with direct controls. Now to sum this up, real clearly as a Public
Health Officer for thirty-five (35) years worldwide; look, if the issue is urgent
enough for you to try to set buffer zones, for you to launch a study, and to force
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 39 OCTOBER 8, 2013
disclosure, you have got an urgent issue. I was here to argue that it is really
urgent, but you guys even know that. I do not have to tell you that it is urgent.
Yet, the previous speaker said he "cannot set up regulatory guys" and "I do not
know how to involve the State." "I cannot set up the resources and I do not know
how to fund it." It is an urgent issue. You cannot set up the stuff to monitor it—
the buffer zones, when you do not do it. You moratorium the stuff until you can
regulate it or resource it properly. I know "moratorium" is a bad word because you
killed the "moratorium," but other than the fact that I keep using it, let us just call
it "block." When you are concerned enough to set the zone to do a study to force
disclosure, just like we did for water additives in Maui, when it is that suspicious,
you block the product until you set up your system to monitor.
Chair Furfaro: That was your six (6) minutes. Let us see if
we have any questions for you.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you, Dr. Pang, for being here today.
You talk about your experiences on Maui.
Mr. Pang: Yes.
Mr. Rapozo: You work for the State or Maui?
Mr. Pang: I am the Health Officer for Maui County.
Mr. Rapozo: When you talked about your investigations
or your questioning, does Maui have County laws?
Mr. Pang: They did pass a law specifically for GMOs.
There is to be no genetically modified kalo in the lab, marketplace, or in the field.
Mr. Rapozo: I believe it was a resolution and not a law,
but as far as what... you are saying what we need to do, but I am just curious; does
Maui have laws or were you acting under the State law?
Mr. Pang: On that one, I spoke as a private citizen.
Mr. Rapozo: No, for your investigations when you were
asking them...
Mr. Pang: The sugarcane?
Mr. Rapozo: Correct.
Mr. Pang: That is State.
Mr. Rapozo: Right, but you were under the authority of
the State?
Mr. Pang: For sugarcane, absolutely.
Mr. Rapozo: Right. Do you know who your counterpart
here on Kaua`i is?
Mr. Pang: Yes, it is Dileep Bal.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 40 OCTOBER 8, 2013
Mr. Rapozo: He does those investigations here?
Mr. Pang: He has the capacity to do it, but he is a
"chronic disease" guy. He works with obesity and cancer.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay, so who would be the Clean Air
Branch?
Mr. Pang: It would be through him and you should tell
him, "If you cannot do it, Dileep, then call somebody who can."
Mr. Rapozo: I believe he publically wanted us to pass the
County law to pass this Bill so the County could go out, investigate, and enforce his
law. I guess my point is this— you are with the State and you were acting in the
capacity under the State, which is where I...
Mr. Pang: On Maui.
Mr. Rapozo: Yes.
Mr. Pang: On west Kaua`i, I acted as a private citizen.
Mr. Rapozo: Yes. The County of Maui did not enforce or
did not create a law to circumvent the State law.
Mr. Pang: For sugarcane, correct.
Mr. Rapozo: Right.
Mr. Pang: The County of Maui called a hearings and
resolution, and resolved something they do— C9 water additive. When they had
specific health problems, they were moot specifically on their own problems, and the
State comes in and says, "This is a Maui problem. Can you guys not do something?"
By the time we did the study, the water purveyor chose to remove the additive
automatically.
Mr. Rapozo: Who did the study? The County? Who does
the enforcement of the water...
Mr. Pang: I also did the study on the water additive.
Mr. Rapozo: But you were with the State?
Mr. Pang: Yes.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay.
Mr. Pang: That was State.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Kagawa, you have the floor.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 41 OCTOBER 8, 2013
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you for coming. Did you relay some of
your recommendations to the Director of Health or Director Deputy of Health?
Mr. Pang: Did I give my recommendations on Kaua`i...
Mr. Kagawa: Yes, so you have a lot of recommendations
for Kaua`i.
Mr. Pang: Okay.
Mr. Kagawa: Because I have a meeting with Mr. Gill on
Friday.
Mr. Pang: They have a copy on my report. They sent a
State Toxicologist and I read her report. I wrote my report from west Kaua`i and
they have a copy. They know about the discrepancy between the compounds "A,"
"B," and "C." They know my report about the symptoms in the children.
Mr. Kagawa: I think the reason why I am saying it is
because I think the Governor has said that he is willing to step things up on Kaua`i.
Like I was mentioning, not only the Department of Ag, I think we need to step it up
in the Department of Health. Here, you are confirming that we have a State
Department of Health counterpart on Kaua`i who only focuses on chronic disease
and does not really do what you do and spread out your duties into some of the
health complaints that come in from residents near pesticide use.
Mr. Pang: He takes complaints but he knows the cruise
ship... the fume... they brought in the air sensor. In fairness to the existing
Governor, the outbreak on Moloka`i... when I first started at west Kaua`i, that was
the previous Governor, so I do not think you can blame the current Governor.
Mr. Kagawa: I think you have a lot of good suggestions
and if you give those suggestions to Mr. Gill, he will have a better understanding of
some of the things that can be done at the State level to help remedy some of these
concerns. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Councilwoman Yukimura, you have the floor.
Ms. Yukimura: Dr. Pang, thank you for being here. What is
a mutant GMO?
Mr. Pang: When they genetically modify a target, they
introduce a mutation.
Ms. Yukimura: Is that basically a GMO or is mutant GMO
something different?
Mr. Pang: No, it is the same thing. It is a GMO and I
asked for the mutations that were inserted because I was trying to say that those
look okay, that the outbreak in the school that everyone thought was from the
mutation—is was not; it was in all of our schools.
Ms. Yukimura: How do you know whether a GMO is okay or
not okay?
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 42 OCTOBER 8, 2013
Mr. Pang: When you modify an organism by putting in
a mutation...
Ms. Yukimura: Are you saying that all GMO is not okay?
Mr. Pang: I am saying that none of the GMOs, to my
satisfaction... I have lots of publications, but none of these GMO products have met
what we used to use for drugs, vaccines, and diagnostics.
Ms. Yukimura: Who are "we?"
Mr. Pang: The World Health Organization, when I
worked for them for twenty (20) years, or the Walter Reed... and I also presented to
the FDA.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. I just wanted to get clear because you
talked about mutant GMOs and I did not know if that was distinct from GMOs, but
you are saying that it is used interchangeably with GMOs.
Mr. Pang: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. You are saying that all GMOs are bad
based on your research?
Mr. Pang: No, I am not saying they are bad.
Ms. Yukimura: They are bad for health?
Mr. Pang: No, they are not bad. They have not been
proven to be safe.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay.
Mr. Pang: They are unknown. They are not sufficiently
known.
Ms. Yukimura: Has the World Health Organization not clear
GMOs from their standpoint?
Mr. Pang: No, actually I quote the World Health
Organization in my presentation. The last quote I used... I think it was 1994 out of
Bangkok that it is not known. The harmful effects are not known. The safety is not
known, so therefore it is not known.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. I think we have received testimony
from other sources quoting the World Health Organization.
Mr. Pang: Furthermore...
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you.
Mr. Pang: Okay.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 43 OCTOBER 8, 2013
Chair Furfaro: Vice Chair, you have the floor.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you, Dr. Pang, for being here and
providing your insights. I wanted to ask you about enforcement. Ideally, the State
would be doing their job and enforcing maybe more stringent requirements that we
put together here for disclosure and buffer zones.
Mr. Pang: Okay.
Ms. Nakamura: If they are not able to or do not have the
political will to either create or fund these positions, then the County may have to
fill the void by hiring our own staff that would be doing very similar things to what
our one enforcement person does on this island.
Mr. Pang: Yes.
Ms. Nakamura: I was just wondering if you see that it is
possible to work together with the State; maybe in the area of Department of
Health/Department of Ag? Do you think it is possible to work collaboratively in
order to reach the same goals?
Mr. Pang: First of all, like you said, the two (2)
agencies... let us just say three (3) agencies... the Feds... they have to have the
same will to do the job. If you want disclosure but the State says, "No, we do not
need that." They are not going to help you. They are not going to fund something
that they do not want to do. If their neutral and say, "Well, it is up to you guys." If
you really want it that bad and you passed a rule, now you are asking us for
resources or you might ask the company to monitor itself; that is neutral. I would
say they do not "love" your rule, but they do not "hate" it. In the past, when we
have approached the State many times, labeling disclosure, they are not interested.
You should ask them first, "Are you truly interested in disclosure?" If the disclosure
indicates the need for study and buffer zones— but okay, you already wrote it in
because it is that urgent; I will give you that. "Will you support it?" Gary Gill is a
kind of good guy and he might say, "Okay, let us touch and go. Let us try to see
that." First, you have to align the objectives that everyone agrees.
Ms. Nakamura: You think it is possible if we align our
objectives, and then coordinate the staff to carry out those objectives?
Mr. Pang: Yes. The only difference I would tell you is
that we have plenty of delays by the State when trying to do these things from Maui
and Hawai`i island, and to kind of gain a little leverage; the scientific public health
medical thing you are supposed to do... it will take us five (5) years to do all of this
alignment. Until then, the product is blocked. Is that not the commonsense thing
here? We have got diet drugs coming in. We do not know what is causing it. We do
not have consistency of product. We have to control the drugs. Until we manage to
set that up, they do not come in. That is kind of the impetus like, "Let us get going
because the companies themselves..." If what Tim says is true, that they log
correctly and do not fraud, they would be happy. "Here it is. I will give it to you."
It is leveraged. Common sense.
Ms. Nakamura: What I do not understand is because the
GMO companies are on most of the islands, and you see as a Public Health Officer,
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 44 OCTOBER 8, 2013
what the potential impacts or what the anecdotal concerns are, and the concerns of
physicians on the different islands.
Mr. Pang: Yes.
Ms. Nakamura: Why does the State not declare that this is a
critical health need? Why is it not happening at that level?
Mr. Pang: I quote the State Department of Health
laws— the Department of Health has the right to modify, suspend, and change any
kind of law, including the FDA, the Feds, if harm is being done. Like I said, with
GMOs, we cannot see harm being done. We do not know safety. We do not know
harm. When it is unknown, the Department of Health cannot just make a move
that we are seeing harm.
Ms. Nakamura: So why would the County?
Mr. Pang: Because you guys can act precautiously. You
do not have to see harm to take action.
Ms. Nakamura: The State cannot work precautiously?
Mr. Pang: I read the State Department of Health rules
and we were going to take on tobacco, and tobacco harm is being done. Harm has to
be done. You guys can act in the precautionary way. You think something is
cooking there, if harm was done, good luck, because it is a life form that you are
going to have a heck of a time pulling out. You guys, State, and Feds can act
precautiously. The Department of Health cannot.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Hooser, you have the floor.
Mr. Hooser: Dr. Pang, thank you very much for being
here today. In 2009, after the State failed to act on the taro issue with GMO, Maui
County Council passed 9:0, unanimously, an ordinance banning GMO taro,
cultivation, and testing on Maui, and it was signed into law by Mayor Tavares.
Were you the Health Officer at the time?
Mr. Pang: Yes. I spoke as a private citizen for that
testimony.
Mr. Hooser: Do you recall if Maui County was sued?
Mr. Pang: No, we were not sued. We were faced with
the question of how we were going to enforce it. Enforcement is not that bad
because you think the company guys would rat on the company? Damn right, it is
whistleblowing. Whistleblower people are trying to uphold their interpretation of
the EPA and the rules as best they can, even if they were wrong. When I first went
to Moloka`i several years ago, I thought the workers would lynch me. I was messing
with their jobs. But their wives came with the children to say, "I am worried about
Junior here." There are always two (2) sides of the coin. I do not think the
employees are so beholding to the companies to sellout so readily if something bad
is suspected.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 45 OCTOBER 8, 2013
Mr. Hooser: Thank you very much. Thank you, Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Are there any more questions? If not, thank
you very much.
Mr. Pang: Thank you.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Our next speaker is Michaela Boudreaux.
MICHAELA BOUDREAUX: Thank you all for your hard work. I am
Michaela Boudreaux from Kalaheo. Very shortly, just one thing that I do not
understand is if the companies are willing to disclose to the Governor and do buffer
zones with the Governor; why is that not being offered to the County, too? I suppose
that is very simple and I believe there is urgency, as well. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Erika Schneider.
ERIKA SCHNEIDER: Aloha. Thank you for all of your hard work.
It is very much appreciated. I know this has been a very long process. Last night,
about eighty percent (80%) of the people that you see in the room back here behind
me spent most of the night sleeping on the ground outside of this building. It is
because speaking to what Mayor Carvalho was saying about this process being
deferred and taking a lot longer. The reason forty (40) people are willing to sleep on
the ground outside of this building is because these corporations are trying to hijack
the democratic process by busing in paid workers and the only way we can make
sure those moms, children, and those families on the west side that are sick have a
voice is to make sure that we sleep on the ground so we can get in here and tell you
what is going on. We do not have time to wait. People are sick. No mother should
lose another child. No mother should have another baby born with birth defects or
hold her child while he seizes. I am here. We are here in solidarity with these
moms and families on the west side. Regarding what Mayor Carvalho was saying
about the complexity of implementing Bill No. 2491— I agree with the statements
that I heard from the Council that it is quite easy to implement the buffer zones and
quite easy to implement disclosure, and that this could happen very quickly, even
within a month. I would like to speak as to how easy it would be to also implement
a moratorium and permitting process. I personally looked at hundreds and
hundreds of environmental impact study files from 1970 to 2013. There are literally
thousands of these files available online for the County of Kaua`i. Regarding the
simplicity and necessity of a moratorium, every one of those environmental
assessment files were projects that were not allowed to happen or continue until the
environmental impact statement was completed. The moratorium was in effect on
the project until the environmental assessment was completed. Many of these
projects were County related. They were projects for road improvements, culverts,
sidewalks, flood remediation, and Water Department expansions and upgrades. All
of these required an environmental impact study, and they still do before the project
moves forward. I also found thousands of community and personal environmental
impact studies online that are required for Kauai residents, and they had a
moratorium on their projects until an environmental impact statement was
completed on things like new-home building, structures on their property, rights of
access, driveway culverts, swimming pools, and other property improvements like
major landscaping.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 46 OCTOBER 8, 2013
Chair Furfaro: That is your first three (3) minutes. Go right
ahead.
Ms. Schneider: I found an environmental impact study
online for Bette Midler who wanted to cut down about one dozen invasive species
trees on her property. I found another one for a man in Wailua who wanted to build
a small swimming pool in his backyard. I found another one for the beach access
path at Secret beach to make sure that it was safe for people to walk down. You are
telling me that the County of Kaua`i and every single resident here has to get an
environmental impact statement to do property changes of any kind, but then it is
too difficult to have a moratorium and an environmental impact study done on
expansion of these companies? They are doing farming practices that include
massive use of restricted use pesticides and general use pesticides that we do not
even know how much of those they are using in quantities and combinations that
have a significant impact on the land and the surrounding community. It makes no
sense to me or anyone else while these corporations can remove hundreds of trees
and get take permits to set traps and poison for birds, spray the land with total kill
pesticides, and use terrible soil mitigation practices that utilize open field
experimentation of GMOs, which are designed to require more pesticides. Why does
everyone else on Kaua`i have to have a moratorium on new projects while these
companies are allowed to do nothing and expand without any kind of study done to
determine the impact on the new lands that they would be expanding to? Biotech
suggesting drawing a line down the middle of our island and promising no
expansion past the Wailua River is a slap in the face to every resident on this island
because everyone here deserves a moratorium on expansion until an environmental
impact study is complete. I stand with the moms on the west side and south side.
We stand with the families on the west side and the south side; that is why we are
willing to sleep on the ground to make sure that voice is heard here. Please
consider reinstating some kind of moratorium and permitting process in the Bill
that will bring income in to help cover the rest of the Bill. It is very simple to
implement. You do it every day on hundreds of projects all across the island. It
would be very simple to implement for an expansion of GMO, as well. Kaua`i is not
divided. Biotech wants a community divided. Thank you very much.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Are there any questions?
Mr. Bynum: You read a lot of environmental studies?
Ms. Schneider: Yes.
Mr. Bynum: I would encourage people to do that. Did you
notice in that that even though the studies about a road or a pool, there are certain
consistent elements in language in each one?
Ms. Schneider: Yes. Pretty much all of the environmental
impact studies followed a very basic protocol and addressed very specific issues like
the history of the land. They would address some cultural impacts. Many different
aspects were addressed in the study and every one of those followed the same basic
format, regardless of what was being done.
Mr. Bynum: Right. One study may go into more depth
about that particular subject area than another one.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 47 OCTOBER 8, 2013
Ms. Schneider: Right. I understand and agree that an
expanded study, even beyond an environmental impact statement, is good for
Kaua`i because we have all of these health issues and things going on.
Mr. Bynum: Thank you.
Ms. Schneider: Anything else?
Mr. Bynum: That is it.
Ms. Schneider: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Again, I want to remind everybody that this
portion of the testimony is about the Mayor's presentation. Those of you who have
signed up, we are taking commentary on the Mayor's presentation. Next speaker,
please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Jennifer Ruggles.
JENNIFER RUGGLES: Good afternoon. My name is Jennifer
Ruggles. Regarding the previous communication and presentation, the fact it would
take one (1) full-time employee to handle the posting of the report seems excessive
because this would assume that it would take forty (40) hours a week to take a
completed report and upload it to the website. I am sure there might be some other
minor details that go into this, but the significant portion of it really should not take
more than an hour a week, so that does not really make sense. Also, one (1)
full-time employee for complaints; there is nothing in the Bill that really covers
complaints and why would we need somebody working forty (40) hours a week on
complaints, unless we assume that the County is not actually going to enforce the
disclosure or the buffer zones, so there would be all of these complaints. Another
thing that needs to be kept in the forefront in this discussion is the one hundred
thirty-one thousand dollars ($131,000) in back taxes that they owe you. That could
help pay for some of the initial costs. I feel like that is not brought up enough. The
last thing is just regarding what Mr. Carvalho said about the "relationship
building." There really has been no "relationship building" from the State with the
thousands of people on paper who have called for what is needed in this Bill. Where
was the relationship building in the Governor's announcement? He said that he
included all the stakeholders and none of us were aware of that. The Council was
barely aware of it. How can we rely on this? The Mayor may have a good
relationship with the House and the seed companies, but there really has been no
relationship building with the people who believe that their health and environment
are being compromised. They just want the simple right to know. That is all I
have. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Any questions? If not, thank you very much.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Brent Norris.
BRENT NORRIS: Aloha kczkou. Thank you, Councilmembers.
Last time I sat up here in front of you, I was harsh and I apologize for that. I really
do appreciate all the work that you are doing, especially now that we are in full
Council. I wrote on my slip that I would be speaking on behalf of Green Collar
Technologies. I am not prepared to do that, so I would like to speak on my own
behalf if that is okay. I think Mayor Carvalho's comments were not very well
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 48 OCTOBER 8, 2013
received because of the sense of urgency that we all have in the matter. I think a
lot of folks are probably shocked to hear that it could take so long to fill positions,
especially people that are doing this for free, right? We are doing this because we
think it is important and it is valuable to do and to work with you on these issues.
Generally, I think just hearing that it is going to cost one point three million dollars
($1,300,000) to do what everyone or what a lot of people that are in room right now
already see happening and could report to you is just a little hard to swallow after
the last four (4) Council Meetings. I developed a relationship myself with Russell
Kokubun, and this was when he was a State Senator, Majority Leader. I received
an award from Mr. Kokubun and letters of support from his Office for a grant I was
writing. I read extensively about his background, particularly, as it related to
Chairmanship on the 20/50 Sustainability Task Force, which at the time about five
(5) years ago, I thought it was an important effort where it takes time to define
"sustainability." It is not the same as the Brundtland Commission's definition of
"sustainability," but I think if you read their definition of sustainability, it alludes
to what the Governor has now for his action plan which I believe includes is step
four (4) on "food security." The reason I am mentioning this in the context of
relationship building and the Mayor's testimony is that there is something going on
that I do not think everyone understands. The Hawai`i Department of Agriculture
is headed up by Russell Kokubun. He is the person in charge. He reports to the
Governor on food security issues. Yet, what we find is that he is the Chair of the
Board of Agriculture and also on the Agricultural Development Corporation (ADC),
which is charged with specifically creating diversified agriculture in Hawai`i.
Chair Furfaro: That was your three (3) minutes, but you will
have three (3) more minutes.
Mr. Norris: Diversified agriculture in Hawai`i have not
worked for you; it has not worked for us. We have not reduced our dependency on
outside food. So an important point to make is that it is not that we have had
sixty-five (65) days or even six (6) years. We have had a lot time to work on these
problems. They are not getting done with food security, and instead, we are going
in what appears to be the opposite direction. We are trying things that are
experimental now and trying things that do not actually produce food. I think that
we are heading in the wrong direction. I wanted to mention that because I thought
it was important.
Next up was the data. I would like to see that data be made to the public so
when the data comes out for disclosure for what the companies are spraying, if you
will turn that over to the public, the public will work with the data if you just
provide it in the right format. We will create applications for that data, report back
to you, and provide insights for free, and you can do that through citizens reporting.
I wanted to remind you of the tone at which Thomas Matsuda came to this Council
at the public hearing at the Veteran's Center. I would like for you to remember, if
you could, when he was essentially sending you a warning about passing
Bill No. 2491, and that warning was coming directly from Russell Kokubun. It was
not Thomas Matsuda's testimony, although his name gets mentioned more often.
When he delivered his testimony, he said that he is delivering Russell's testimony,
and he was asked in that meeting if the Department of Agriculture took a position
on Bill No. 2491, and he would not answer the question. The other thing that I
wanted to mention was something that is real important when you are looking for
an answer these days— there are a lot of experts; there are a lot of science; there
are a lot of scientists that are releasing reports, and those reports are getting read
pretty quickly, especially by folks in your community right now— the few thousand
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 49 OCTOBER 8, 2013
who are actively engaged in getting Bill No. 2491 passed. If you would consider
them a little more for their knowledge, I think it is important. One of the things I
notice is that there are expert testifiers who come up and I am noticing knowledge
gaps in their testimony; yet, if there were a way for you to "crowd source" the
information from the community in a more intelligent manner, collecting data and
so forth, I think that you can get all the answers that you need and maybe uncover
things that you have not learned yet. In closing, I really wanted to talk about that
relationship building because what I believe is going on here is I think that the
relationships that are being built are unnecessary.
Chair Furfaro: That is your six (6) minutes.
Mr. Norris: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Are there any questions? We have questions
for you from Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: I recall Mr. Matsuda's testimony here and
him clearly saying that he was representing Mr. Kokubun. What was significant
about that? I did not understand why you brought up Mr. Matsuda.
Mr. Norris: The tone...
Mr. Bynum: You said it was like a warning. He said that
the Department did not have a position on the Bill; that is my memory.
Mr. Norris: That is right. The tone was that if you go
forward with the Bill, you are going to get into trouble if you pass the Bill. I will be
happy to bring that back to you.
Mr. Bynum: I just want to say that I found Mr. Matsuda's
testimony very helpful. He is one of those mid-level technical people in the State
that I admire a lot and I have had subsequent conversations with him. I am kind of
protective of HDA members who are just doing their job. You were not really
criticizing Mr. Matsuda?
Mr. Norris: No, because it was Mr. Kokubun's testimony.
Mr. Bynum: Right. Thank you. Now I understand what
your intention was.
Chair Furfaro: To the audience, I want to remind you that I
stated this in the very beginning, that after speaking with OIP— I believe we have
six (6) speakers more. At 1:00 p.m., this group and this Special Council Meeting
will be adjourned today. We have business with the Auditor at 1:00 p.m. We have
cleared with OIP that we can go into recess, and then start again on Monday,
October 14th at 9:00 a.m. On this particular session as we are now, we are
addressing the piece dealing with the Mayor's commentary. Who is the next
speaker?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Jeri DiPietro.
Mr. Hooser: I have a question before the next speaker
starts.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 50 OCTOBER 8, 2013
Chair Furfaro: Yes?
Mr. Hooser: We are going to recess until Monday?
Chair Furfaro: Yes.
Mr. Hooser: Do we have a defined end time on that day or
do we have a specific length of time to discuss the items on the agenda?
Chair Furfaro: For the people that are here today, this is a
recess on the existing meeting, and I believe the next piece for us to be dealing with
on Monday would probably by the Executive Session material.
Mr. Hooser: So we will have an end time on Monday
defined or can we be clear that we will have sufficient time to discuss all items on
the agenda on Monday?
Chair Furfaro: I believe we will have sufficient time.
Mr. Hooser: Right on. Thank you very much.
Chair Furfaro: That is my understanding right now.
Mr. Hooser: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Jeri, you have the floor.
JERI DIPIETRO: Aloha, Chair. Jeri DiPietro for the record.
Thank you so much for having us here again today. We are asking for disclosure.
We need to know what restricted use pesticides are being sprayed by the multiple
ton year, after year on our island. We are asking for your help. The County has the
ability to step up to this and we support you. We have been asking for this for over
ten (10) years and it is not easy to get a Bill on the agenda. We thank you very
much for listening and going through this process with us and getting informed
during these last sixty-five (65) days. I listened carefully to the County
presentation, and nowhere did I hear of any concern for people's health. Not once
did they express compassion for the community's crying for help. Mothers with sick
children cannot wait. They cannot continue year, after year and be disrespected
this way. Four (4) chemical companies are spraying hundreds of acres; most times
they are spraying at night while we are asleep. People hear the machines and smell
the chemicals. They do not know what to anticipate for their future. We should act
in a precautionary way. How much longer are we going to let the herbicide
resistant test field go unchecked? This is not our grandparent's corn. When you
drive by the corn across from Kukui Grove, it may look very green and benign, but
unless you live near these chemical fields, you do not know the ramifications of the
drift, dust, and of the multiple chemical spraying. Schoolchildren were sent to the
hospital. Mothers were having babies with birth defects. I heard no concern for the
human health expressed. I cannot believe that many of us still do not have a basic
understanding of the unintended consequences of this chemical stacking. We have
brought the best experts from around the world here and many of you have come to
our presentations over the years that you have been on Council; some not though.
Through the Freedom of Information Act and through the Waimea lawsuit, we are
seeing what is being sprayed. I am a little surprised when I hear the leaders of our
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 51 OCTOBER 8, 2013
community say that they have not read some of these things and that they have not
even heard about it. When we started bringing these issues to the State many,
many years ago, the biotech companies would actually get up and walk out of the
room when we would start to present information.
Chair Furfaro: Jeri, that is three (3) minutes. You have
another three (3) minutes.
Ms. DiPietro: Okay, I will keep it short. Thank you, Chair.
They would get up and leave so that they could preserve their ability to say that we
see no harm. That is sticking your head in the sand and I know you guys are caring
people. Disclosure is not too much to ask. The Occupational Safety and Health
Administration (OSHA) laws for the fieldworkers are keeping these records anyway.
We just want to know. You heard the nurses, the teachers association, and the
doctors that say things come up. We need to be able to piece this together and
without disclosure, this cannot be done. These companies do business in other
states and they do disclose. This is not an unreasonable request, so please, let us at
least get our disclosure. Let us look at buffer zones. They probably do have to be
much, much bigger when you see the wind blowing but we need to know. We need
to start with the disclosure. That is the true intention of Bill No. 2491. I urge you
to please let us get this process started. It may be too late. When we had
Dr. Hubert here talking about glyphosate, that we start to get these things in our
water, and it is going to be a real fine mess. When you see the movies of the harm
in Anniston, Alabama— these are the same chemical companies polluting the water
supply of a small town. We cannot let these chemical companies pollute the water
system of a small island. It is crucial. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Are there any questions for Jeri?
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you for your good work. I know there
are questions and findings on the streams and the ocean but in terms of the
drinking water, is that not pretty clear now that there are not residues in there
because the Department of Water does monthly testing. Do they not?
Ms. DiPietro: I do not know that. We did sit down with
Gary Gill and at the end of the conversation, I asked him, "Do you guys test for
glyphosate?" He said, "I am not sure." Maybe we do not now, but when we are
looking at eighteen (18) tons a year of just the restricted use, everything goes down.
Our ground water is limited, so I think we have to err on the side of precaution.
Until we check thoroughly, we do not know for sure.
Ms. Yukimura: I think it is definitely checkable in terms of
our potable water, so I will put in a request. I think they do test monthly and
disclose it probably on the website, but I will get that fully clarified in terms of
drinking water. I think it is pretty procedural and in place in terms of those
results. The others in freshwater, ocean, soil, and air are what I hope the EPHIS
study will do in a systematic way.
Ms. DiPietro: I do, too. I think soil samples are going to be
vital because we have had the biopharmaceutical fields. Other than what our
citizens have done, we have not looked correctly at mapping. We have not even
gone back to look at the soil in some of those most controversial tests.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 52 OCTOBER 8, 2013
Ms. Yukimura: I agree that soil testing is basic and I hope
that will be covered. It is my intention that it will be covered in the EPHIS study.
Ms. DiPietro: One thing quickly that we found...
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me, our rules do not permit you to
ask a new question based on your finding. The Councilmember needs to ask you the
question, Jeri.
Ms. DiPietro: Okay.
Chair Furfaro: Do you have another question for Jeri?
Ms. Yukimura: That is all. Thank you very much.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Next speaker, please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Fern Rosenstiel.
FERN ROSENSTIEL: Fern Rosenstiel for the record. I do not have
a script today and I am not going to try and get it all said in three (3) minutes.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for what you guys have done for the last few
months. I know it has been trying for all of you involved. I genuinely thank you. I
thank you for passing it out of Committee, taking it forward, and for being
responsible enough and actually look at the issue when so many people are not. I
know this is directly related to the Mayor's testimony or conversation here. I would
like to respond a little bit about the urgency that I feel that this issue has. I have
been trying for a year to find out the information that we are sitting here still trying
to find out right now. We have received multiple— well, spit in the face is probably
the best way to describe it when you are faxed a fifteen (15) page paper of black
redacted information. It is pretty much a spit in the face after trying to find
information and saying, "We will give you a permit." I would like to remind
everyone that the Federal government is who granted the permits for
experimentation here. Yes, the upper level governments are managing some of this
stuff and maybe they are doing a really poor job at it because they are the ones who
sign the experimental permit for pesticide use here. I want to comment a little bit
about why I feel that this is so urgent because we cannot wait months more just to
get the right to know. I do not understand the negative impacts associated with the
right to know, minimal buffer zones that arguably do not protect as much as they
should, and a study. What is negative about doing that now? Why do we have to
wait months more to get the right to know? That presentation by the County was a
great example by the County of how long these processes take and let us get it
moving beyond this. You guys have done a huge amount of work in the last few
months. I just really encourage you to move forward. The reason that we are
dealing with these issues— the reason that they want to drill horizontally into our
mountain to access water that has not been polluted by a plantation era, which
arguably already damaged the environment and the community... in huge amounts.
The reason they want to drill into this mountain is because the water is
contaminated. When you read the potable water reports, you will see that the
1,2,3-Trichloropropane (TCP) from the pineapple industry, for example, I recently
just found out in the last month when researching information about the horizontal
drilling that the TCP levels in Lihu`e are just below the Federal standards for what
actually has to be treated. Please, Councilmember Yukimura confirmed this for me.
I believe that those levels are below Federal standards, but California just revised
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 53 OCTOBER 8, 2013
their standards and dropped that to half of what it was. My understanding is that
if it was to happen here in Hawai`i, which often it does follow California for some
standards— if we were to drop that threshold, we would immediately have to pay
over ten million dollars ($10,000,000) to treat the Lihu`e water source just for TCP
to get it not below the level that it causes an impact to blithe, but below the level
which the Federal government sets a standard. We do already have a generation of
pollution because of bad land management and poor enforcement. Yes, we have a
long ways to go but please, let us keep moving forward. Please continue to pass this
Bill and not defer it any longer. I really appreciate your time. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Councilmember Yukimura, you have the
floor.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you, Fern. Excuse my ignorance, but
what is TCP?
Ms. Rosenstiel: It was used as a pesticide for the plantation
era. I believe it was for mites and it was sprayed heavily on pineapple as a
pesticide. I also believe it is residual and one of the things that is tested regularly.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you. I will further investigate that.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much. To the Staff, I want
to let you know that we have five (5) speakers left. I do want to say that I have the
authority to carry this meeting to 1:15 p.m. When we come back, we will start up
again at 2:15 p.m. on the other subject. Let us try and finish this testimony. Who is
next speaker?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Collin Dana.
COLLIN DANA: Thank you, Council. For the record, my
name is Collin Dana from Lawa`i. I was pretty negatively impressed by the Mayor
and his Staffs presentation to be honest. It does not seem like there is any good
faith and effort for them to actually see this thing go forward in any timely fashion.
I think it needs to be said again— the urgency here is real. We are already twenty
(20) years behind the ball. We are playing catch up and there is no reason why the
three (3) items that survived the Committee cannot just be fast-tracked into action.
"The study needs sculpting." I understand that. Let us get it started. If it is going
to take more than had one (1) year to get personnel in place— the sooner, the better.
We have been waiting for a long time. We cannot afford to wait longer.
Now, I am speaking as a person who is dedicated to providing food for my
community. I am a farmer here for the long run and I am making food. I am not
growing for export. I am talking about not only the future of the entire island, but
the future of my livelihood, and quite literally, my life. I live on soil that was used
or "abused," if you will, by the pineapple industry and a previous chem-ag industry.
All of these legacy chemicals could still be in my soil. I have to run a battery of
expensive tests just to find out if it is okay to eat what I am growing. It is scary
stuff. I do not want future generations to have to go through the same thing.
Where is the funding to help us that already are living on contaminated soil? This
is just the tip of the iceberg and if we are going to bat this around, and delay and
delay, we are never going to see substantive change that this island needs to move
us in the right direction. This is a clear first step. There is no reason to keep
delaying. I say pass this. The stuff that was taken out, specifically related to
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 54 OCTOBER 8, 2013
GMOs, let us put that in a GMO Bill. A strong pesticide bill; a strong GMO bill.
That would be a step in the right direction. I speak for myself, but I also speak for a
whole wave of people coming up in this community that want to see Ag done in the
right way and want to see real sustainability. It is not sustainable if you are entire
operation is based on petrochemicals. It is just not. With all due respect, for the
Mayor and his opinions, I think we are better than shying away from a task just
because of the immensity. This is something that needs to be done. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much. Next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is William Ash.
WILLIAM ASH: Good afternoon. William Ash, registered
voter. I want to thank you once again, as I have in the past, for your efforts of all
the time that has been devoted to this Bill and to the Mayor's points. As things
come down from the Federal government, you are instructed to enforce or
implement them. I think your process will be the same when you go to pass the Bill
here. You are going to be in the process of having to make it happen. I think it has
been pointed out clearly that it is going to take time to get it going. I think getting
your foot in the door is a good thing. I think that the Mayor's caution or his
reluctance to want to take matters in hand— he did a very excellent presentation
for supposedly only having twenty-four (24) hours. I am sure he will catch up to
your speed. I am also here representing Klayton Kubo who could not be with us
because his mother is having a procedure in O`ahu. He has been fighting this for
thirteen (13) years. When do we stop fighting and take action? When are pressed
hard enough that we need to feel the back of our neck? People have threatened,
cajoled, and have said bad things to one another... it is because they are afraid. The
Mayor is afraid. He does not want to make a mistake. You guys do not want to
make mistakes. But not to learn from the plantation era and not go forward with
this, I think would be a terrible mistake. I think that ushering a new plantation era
with these biotech corporations is not a good thing. I do not think they respect the
tourism. I do not think they respect the industry that is here. I think they do not
contribute much to it. I got a message from the keikis, once again, that their nose
bleed and they want somebody to help them. I think you are the people who can
start the process. Thank you very much.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Are there any questions? If not,
next speaker, please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Andrea Brower.
ANDREA BROWER: Andrea Brower for the record. I definitely
had not planned on testifying and I have a hard time with this one because I grew
up with Uncle Bernard. He and my dad coached soccer together for a decade. We
have been to Las Vegas, O`ahu, and Maui multiple times. I have a hard time
speaking against him, but I just found that presentation so outrageous that I felt
like I needed to say something. Three (3) full-time staff people, two (2) consultants,
extensive training— nearly one point five million dollars ($1,500,000) in less than a
year for just disclosure and buffer zones, and the study was not included in one
point five million dollars ($1,500,000). Was it? Okay. Well, thank you for clarifying
that because it does make a difference. Really, I think there is a severe
exaggeration going on here for what it is going to take to enforce disclosure and
buffer zones. All this talk about needing people to manage health complaints; it is
like the Administration did not even read the Bill, and there were some real obvious
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 55 OCTOBER 8, 2013
inconsistencies in the presentation and the answers to some of the questions that I
think it is important not to ignore. The Mayor mentioned that he has been in
conversation with the companies. I know several of you have, and I am not
suggesting bad intentions, but it does seem that the Administration is being pushed
into a state of overwhelm. I think nobody doubts that the companies are
influencing some of that feeling of overwhelm. If anything, the Administration's
presentation revealed that it is worth reconsidering permitting so we can collect an
enforcement fee from these companies, all of who are on the World's Fortune 500
list. Implementation of permitting might be more challenging than other provisions
of this Bill, but we could afford to work some of those complications out with a
permitting fee. Louisa Wooten, who is an inspector for Hawai`i Organic Farms
Association, had some very good suggestions about what that might look like in her
article in The Garden Island the other day. My last comment is that the Mayor
likes to talk a lot about getting together and working to understand and educating,
and these are all nice concepts that I would typically agree with, but that is not how
you deal with multinational corporations who have some of the most insidious
history of any corporations in the world. We need to be firm, bold, and we cannot
let them bully us into letting us into believing that we are not capable. Our hands
are not tied and it is time for action.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Are there any questions?
Councilmember Yukimura, you have the floor.
Ms. Yukimura: Andrea, thank you as always for speaking
out. On the permitting issue, what exactly would we be permitting?
Ms. Brower: I would have to, like we have been doing,
really sit down and think about this. I do not have specific suggestions right now,
but I do think that some permitting for large-scale agricultural operations that are
using this many pesticides is necessary and worthwhile. We could link it to
pesticide usage. How that would be done before and after— I am not sure of the
details.
Ms. Yukimura: It is that vagueness that prompted me/us to
remove the permitting section, but we could work on it, but I assure you that it will
take more than two (2) months to work on a really clear permitting. I am not even
sure we would get there, but I invite anybody to try.
Ms. Brower: So that could be separate a Bill. It could be
mandated in this Bill that that process will take place at other time. There are
ways, just like we tied the EPHIS to the current Bill. There are ways to work
around it.
Ms. Yukimura: You definitely could work on a separate Bill.
It is kind of funny to mandate something in a Bill that is going to happen later.
Ms. Brower: Right, I understand that is not a typical
process.
Ms. Yukimura: Right. Thank you.
Ms. Brower: Thanks.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 56 OCTOBER 8, 2013
Chair Furfaro: Are there any more questions? I want to
thank you for pointing out Louisa's commentary in The Garden Island about other
options, the inspection process, and contracting. Next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Jerry Ornellas.
JERRY ORNELLAS: Aloha, Chair Furfaro and members of the
Council. Thank you very much for this opportunity for me to testify in front of you
today. I am somewhat surprised at where we are at this point in time. This feels so
much that is unclear and undecided. I had expected this Bill to be much further
along at this point. I think the amendments were a step in the right direction. I
think we got rid of some of the stuff that were really problematic. I get calls every
week now from farmers and this Bill has not even passed yet. I get calls saying, "I
just got my spray rig ready and my neighbor is standing across the street with his
camera, so I put all of my stuff away and I am not going to spray today," or "I just
did some spraying and now there is a cop car in front of my house to talk to me
about what I sprayed." This has impacted our community in ways that I think in
many ways that none of us foresaw. It has divided our community deeply. I think if
we approached this whole issue in the spirit of cooperation rather than
confrontation, we would have been way ahead of the game. I do not know how to
heal the community. I do not think that you have to start a civil war to get your
point across. Yet, people keep making references to health issues. First, it was
cancer clusters. We all heard about that. When the tumor registry study came out
saying that we really do not have an issue with that on Kaua`i and all of a sudden,
it shifted to birth defects. When the study on bee pollen came out, saying that we
have not found pesticides in bee pollen here on Kaua`i— that study was dismissed. I
do not know where we are going to go with this thing, but obviously, I think there is
no clear path forward at this point. We do not know how we are going fund this
thing at this point. I am somewhat surprised that we have not made more progress.
Chair Furfaro: Are there any questions for Jerry? Go ahead,
Mr. Kagawa.
Mr. Kagawa: Jerry, like you, I have had some calls. I had
one from a small farmer and I guess he was saying he does use more than five (5)
pounds, and so he was asking me, "Does this Bill affect me, as well, not just the seed
companies?" Have you gotten those calls, too?
Mr. Ornellas: I have. My comment on that would be this,
Mr. Kagawa, is that initially, a snapshot was taken of "this is the pesticide use on
Kaua`i right now for this past year," or for whatever period— three (3) years in
time. To give you an example, in the 80's we had a thriving papaya industry here
on Kaua`i, right? We had several hundred acres of papayas planted. You are all
familiar with that. At that time, the amount of restricted use pesticides used far
exceeded five (5) pounds or fifteen (15) gallons per farm, right? Unless we plan to
restrict this type of agriculture going forward, I am not sure that the farmers are
going to be...
Mr. Kagawa: I guess we have been talking about the
discrepancy between how much workers the County is going to need to enforce.
When we say all the small farmers that use more than five (5) pounds are included,
I guess one or two (2) guys are surely not enough.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 57 OCTOBER 8, 2013
Mr. Ornellas: Yes. I am glad you brought that up because
for the sake of disclosure, I have to tell you that I sit on the Hawai`i Board of
Agriculture representing Kaua`i, and there has been a lot of assumptions being
made today about the State stepping in and enforcing County ordinances. I do not
know that the State can do that. The State is tasked with enforcing State
ordinances, statutes, and laws; not necessarily County laws, so I am not sure that is
going to work. I am sure the State wants to work with the County and I am sure
that the Department of Health and the Department of Ag wants to work with the
County, but like I said earlier, I think if we had taken that approach first... the
Farm Bureau was never consulted prior to the introduction of this Bill. I did meet
with Gary and I had coffee with him when he told me he was going to introduce the
Bill, but we never saw a draft of the Bill. We represent the largest farm grower
organization on Kaua`i and we were never consulted. I do not know who was.
Chair Furfaro: Before I recognize you, Councilwoman, I
want to remind everybody that we have three (3) speakers left and that would be all
we are doing for today. You have the floor.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you. This new information that the
threshold limits set in this Bill actually apply to smaller farmers and has huge
implications because depending on where they are, buffers and so forth, start to
take different impacts. Is there another threshold level that you can suggest would
be a good distinction between small farmers and these larger farmers?
Mr. Ornellas: I think all of this is based on the premise
that these products are bad. Obviously, right? No matter what or how you use
them, they are detrimental to our environment and our people. That is the premise
that all of this is based upon. I do not think that has been established scientifically.
If we operate from that premise, then naturally yes, you will try and go for the
lowest amount of usage possible.
Ms. Yukimura: Well, what we are looking for is a rational
line between the large agricultural entities and the smaller ones because we want to
start where there is larger quantity of use. I think that is kind of a rational basis.
However, if what you are saying is true that in the 80's— and I do concur by
memory that there were large tracks of wonderful sunrise papayas that were being
exported, as well as eaten locally— they were also non-GMO. If they were using the
same amount of pesticides as these larger Ag entities are, then the thought that
these Ag entities are using an extraordinary amount per acre versus conventional
Ag is in question.
Mr. Ornellas: I think so. I do not believe they are using
extraordinary amounts.
Ms. Yukimura: That is one of the things that we have been
trying to determine, and I know Councilmember Bynum has been very concerned. I
have also received information that because the spraying is on different parts of a
larger parcel, that in fact, it is about one (1) crop per year of corn, which is normal
use of pesticide compared to another acre of corn on the mainland; conventional Ag,
if there is conventional Ag left on corn— I do not know. For me, the question is
unanswered, and I know Councilmember Bynum has wanted some help in
analyzing the records that he got from the lawsuit. If there is information coming
forth that smaller Ag is meeting those thresholds, then yes, an assumption that we
are making here is up for grabs now.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 58 OCTOBER 8, 2013
Mr. Ornellas: Yes. JoAnn, I do want to thank you for
including some real important information in your amendments to the Bill.
Agriculture uses thirteen percent (13%) of restricted use pesticides. I thank you for
including that.
Ms. Yukimura: I think that was Councilmember Rapozo's
request.
Mr. Ornellas: So what happens to the other percentage? I
can tell you why; it is because farmers represent only two percent (2%).
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me, Jerry, our protocol is one where
she posed a question and you responded to that. I need to recognize other members.
Mr. Ornellas: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Hooser, you have the floor.
Mr. Hooser: Thank you for being here today. Whenever
the numbers come up, I feel compelled to offer what I know about the numbers. I
believe that the Councilmembers and the public have access to the same
information that I have. The Department of Ag's sales records over the last three
(3) years showed that only two (2) farmers in three (3) years purchased restricted
use pesticides besides at all besides Kaua`i Coffee and those other four (4) entities.
No other farmer except those other two (2)... they were a couple of years ago and
they were minute amounts. If other farmers are using them, I am wondering where
they are getting them from and whether they are legally able to use them or they
have just been stored for an inordinate amount of time. The record is clear that
from the legal purchase of these chemicals that real farmers are not using them on
any regular basis.
Mr. Ornellas: I never said...
Mr. Hooser: The other thirteen percent (13%), the other
two (2) categories of restricted use pesticides— the large percentage is chlorine gas
that the County uses for water... we have had this discussion before... and termite
use. Neither of those uses spray their chemicals out in the open over large tracts of
land when the wind is blowing in their neighborhoods. That is the rationale behind
targeting the extensive use of the restricted use pesticides, the way it is in the Bill
right now.
Mr. Ornellas: First of all, I never said that small farmers
were using restricted use pesticides.
Mr. Hooser: I am sorry; that is what I thought you said.
Mr. Ornellas: No, I did not say they were using. I said that
in the past they have.
Mr. Hooser: Okay. I think that is an important
clarification because I think Councilmember Yukimura was referring to maybe the
threshold is the wrong threshold in response to what we all thought, which is what I
thought you said.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 59 OCTOBER 8, 2013
Mr. Ornellas: I think more importantly, I reserve the right
to use if I have to.
Mr. Hooser: I understand that, but I just wanted to be
very clear on that we are talking about restricted use pesticides as a threshold
element, and the records show that regular farmers are not using those to that
extent. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo, you have the floor.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you, Mr. Ornellas, for being here
today. Is there a standard or an acceptable amount of pesticides per acre?
Mr. Ornellas: Absolutely.
Mr. Rapozo: What would that be? Do you have that
number?
Mr. Ornellas: It is on the label; the label is the law.
Mr. Rapozo: Right, but in general because I think the
numbers that have been thrown out appears to be a lot of pesticides. Would it make
sense in a Bill like this that you would just reference the label? Is five (5) gallons or
five (5) pounds a good number in your experience?
Mr. Ornellas: I think it is just arbitrarily...
Mr. Rapozo: Since we started these discussions, I cannot
remember if we even had a traditional farmer here. Would it be per acre or per use?
It is uncomfortable to see how much you buy because that does not necessarily tell
you how much is sprayed in one location.
Mr. Ornellas: Yes.
Mr. Rapozo: I think that is where the numbers get
skewed and once it hits the internet, it goes ballistic, and the appearance is that
Kaua`i has become a toxic dump. I do not know if that is true because we do not
know how much is being sprayed where. What is the general rule? Is there even
such a thing?
Mr. Ornellas: The smallest number possible, right?
Pesticides are a tool of last resort.
Mr. Rapozo: Right.
Mr. Ornellas: No farmer likes to use pesticides. I do not
like using them. I use only one pesticide on my farm.
Mr. Rapozo: Do you apply over five (5) pounds a year?
Mr. Ornellas: No.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 60 OCTOBER 8, 2013
Mr. Rapozo: I am not talking about restricted use
pesticides, just in general.
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me, gentlemen. I want to make sure
that we understand that this discussion is about the presentation about
management and controls with the Administration. If you could respond to
Mr. Rapozo's last question, we can go from there.
Mr. Ornellas: No, I would have to come up with some
arbitrary figure that I am not comfortable with.
Mr. Rapozo: That is my concern. When we pass a Bill, we
should not be using arbitrary figures. We can talk offline. I am done.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you for your understanding,
Mr. Rapozo. Anymore questions for Mr. Ornellas? If not, would you read the names
of the last three (3) speakers?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The last three (3) speakers are Mimsy
Bouret, Mark Willman, and Elaine Dunbar.
Chair Furfaro: Ms. Bouret waived her opportunity to speak.
Mark Willman, please come up.
MARK WILLMAN: Aloha, County Council. Thank you again for
the opportunity and your hard work. I really appreciate all of the hard work that
you have done. I would also like to thank you for recognizing the good record
keeping. I think Councilmember Bynum talked about it earlier of the responsible
seed companies. I also want to thank you for dropping the GMO portions of the Bill.
I want to support the efforts to use the current State and County agencies to
monitor pesticide usage and to deal with the individual claims. I do not think the
buffer zones need to be specified by County since the companies are as stated
"responsible businesses." They are responsible to the community. They do not want
to put themselves in a position for lawsuits. I think that is the underlying position
as to why the seed companies perhaps— I am speaking for myself. I am from
`Ele`ele. I am sorry; I should have mentioned that before. I am also a registered
voter. As we heard from the President of Kaua`i Coffee, when he did disclosed in a
certain incident that they were going to spray and did not, he received claims of
people getting ill. I think we need to be aware of the fact that we are human beings
and a suggestion is given to us that something is going to occurs, people are going to
react. I think that is an important consideration to take into account in terms of
the Disclosure Act. I do not want to have my taxes increased to pay for the one
point three million dollars ($1,300,000) or one point five million dollars ($1,500,000)
predicted. I know it is a predicted expense proposed by the County Attorney, I
believe. I do not think those expenses are necessary. I think we have the agencies
in place if we could all cooperate better with each other and become more effective.
I think we can do exactly what the public wants, and that is to be safe. I am with
everybody here that I want the public to be safe and feel safe. I think that can be
accomplished with what we currently have. Finally, the companies have been here
for over forty (40) years, and as related by the State Department of Health, the
incidents of cancer are no different than the rest of the State of Hawai`i. I
understand that some of the statistical arguments of whether those facts and
figures are right or wrong. I really feel bad that there are mothers that do have
children that are being born with birth defects. I am part of the west side
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 61 OCTOBER 8, 2013
community and I do see other factors that can play a role in that, not just pesticide
usage. For example, I see many people abusing drugs and alcohol on a regular
basis. I cannot discount that as one potential cause; I am not saying it is a sole
cause, but I cannot say it is not part of the problem.
Chair Furfaro: That is your first three (3) minutes.
Mr. Willman: I would encourage you, County
Councilmembers, to take the lead on these issues and restore our trust in you that
you are equitable, not discriminatory against corporations, and restore the damage
that this Bill has done to all of us— you included. I recognize that we all have paid
the toll for this. I encourage you to follow the recommendations that you heard
today from the lawyers, attorneys, and the Mayor to take your time and do it right.
That will be your legacy. My real recommendation is that you just drop the entire
Bill altogether, just like you did the other GMO elements of the Bill. Thank you for
your time.
Chair Furfaro: Are there any questions for the speaker?
Thank you very much. Elaine, you will be our last speaker for today.
ELAINE DUNBAR: Good afternoon, Councilmembers. Elaine
Dunbar, for the record. I am not sure how I am supposed to manipulate this to
address Mayor Carvalho's comments, which I did not think there were too many of.
Perhaps he has not had time to review everything that the community has been
doing all of these months and that may be the reason he needs a deferral. I am kind
of disappointed that things were taken out of this Bill such as the language banning
future open air testing of GMOs and experimental pesticides and the moratorium
on expansion of these companies anywhere on Kaua`i until an EIS is completed,
shows sound and precautionary judgment, and should not have been removed. The
argument we have heard the most on this Bill is that it will result in job losses.
How can future open air experimental testing and experimental pesticides result in
job losses for jobs that are presently nonexistent? That seems like an argument
that is not based on anything realistic or on actual losses. Is open air testing of
experimental substances not where it all began? If Government had honored basic
measures of concern regarding experimental practices or paid heed to the word
"experimental," as was the standard operating procedure in the past, we would not
be having this discussion. If Government had not allowed rampant departure from
rules protecting health, we would not be having this discussion. My point is that
biotech companies have been getting away with these practices for so long that they
have come to believe they are entitled. In turn, they have tried to influence the
public opinion that "this is okay, but it has not worked." The only ones that they
have managed to convince are people in Government. The fact is that their
practices are rogue and illicit contrary to all prescribed laws of society and custom.
The fact that they are implemented really means nothing to as to them being
allowed to continue. That is what will be the difference between good Government
decisions and poor and unenlightened ones. I understand this hearing is about
pesticides, but so far I have yet to hear the touted benefits of biotech farming for
Hawai`i justifying poisoning residents. The records show that biotech gets sweet
deals such as paying as little as fifty dollars ($50) an acre for a year for Ag land.
They are also heavily exempted from taxes and have been delinquent for several
years. I think it should also apply to irrigation ditches. Who knows who goes to the
irrigation ditches— children, animals, or birds? It is all part of the cycle.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 62 OCTOBER 8, 2013
Chair Furfaro: Elaine, that is your first three (3) minutes.
You have another three (3) minutes.
Ms. Dunbar: I will try to do less than that. These are the
two (2) critical parts of the Bill; the open air experimental testing and the
moratorium. They can also be added incentive for the companies to adhere to
responsibilities and to prove themselves. It will force compliancy without being
contingent on new positions being funded. Waiting for the year 2015 or beyond is
ridiculous and effectively annihilates the whole Bill. Let us not focus on
enforcement as being the backbone of the Bill. Effectuate the Bill first and
effectuate the enforcement aspect simultaneously or after because you cannot even
begin to address enforcement unless all of the rules are in place. I believe
Councilmember Yukimura mentioned this earlier today. It was difficult to hear
downstairs, but that is an important component. The enforcement will come after.
The GMO companies can be made to pay for that. They are raking it in at
everybody else's expense like their taxes, land uses, and health. That is all I have
for today. Should I leave testimony?
Chair Furfaro: You can leave testimony to us, yes. Are
there any questions? If not, I am going to call our meeting back to order.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
The motion to receive C 2013-329 for the record was then put, and
unanimously carried.
Chair Furfaro: On another note as I shared earlier this
morning, we will be going into recess until Monday, October 14, 2013. Did you have
something to say before I go any further?
Mr. Kagawa: Yes. Could we change it to Tuesday? For me,
a full week would be good, but if members still want to do it on Monday, that is fine.
Chair Furfaro: Members, there is a suggestion that we go to
Tuesday.
Ms. Nakamura: That is fine for me, Chair. I had some
meetings scheduled for Monday, but I was going to reschedule them. Tuesday is
open for me.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Hooser, do you have any comments?
Mr. Hooser: Likewise, I was going to reschedule my
Monday, but Tuesday is a better day for me also.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Councilmember Yukimura?
Ms. Yukimura: I have three (3) meetings that I would have
to reschedule and I can do it, but I would like to have a lunch recess so I can attend
one of my meetings at 12:00 p.m.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 63 OCTOBER 8, 2013
Chair Furfaro: Okay. I will assure that you have a lunch
period that starts at 12:00 p.m. Staff, would we have a problem with scheduling
this posting for Tuesday for the recess?
Mr. Rapozo: I do not have anything on Tuesday, but I do
not want to do it on Tuesday. No, I am just kidding.
Chair Furfaro: On that note, when we come back to order
from this recess, I want to point out that we will have two (2) Executive Sessions,
the Committee Report, Bill for Second Reading, and the Resolution. We are going
to recess now to Tuesday, October 15, 2013.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Yes, at 9:00 a.m. here at the Council
Chambers.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. We are in recess.
There being no objections, the meeting was recessed at 1:25 p.m.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 64 OCTOBER 15, 2013
The Special Council Meeting reconvened on Tuesday, October 15, 2013 at 9:11 a.m.,
and proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: Aloha, good morning. I would like to give
notice of a continued agenda from the October 8, 2013 Special Council Meeting, as it
was recessed until Tuesday, October 15, 2013 on or about 9:00 a.m. Based on this
continued agenda, we have completed all the way to item (F) that dealt with
Communications. But before we go any further on a housekeeping item, I would
like to do a roll call and then ask the County Attorney to come up for an
interpretation.
Honorable Tim Bynum (present at 9:35 a.m.)
Honorable Gary L. Hooser
Honorable Ross Kagawa
Honorable Nadine K. Nakamura
Honorable Mel Rapozo
Honorable JoAnn A. Yukimura
Honorable Jay Furfaro
JADE K. FOUNTAIN-TANIGAWA, Deputy County Clerk: Six (6)
present.
Chair Furfaro: Six (6) here. I believe Mr. Bynum is on his
way, the Staff received a call. Thank you. On that note, I would like to ask the
County Attorney to come up and I would like to give the floor to the Vice Chair.
Would that be you Mr. Trask? Thank you.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
MAUNA KEA TRASK, Deputy County Attorney: Aloha, Chair and
members of the County Council.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much. I am going to give the
floor for a question to the Vice Chair. You have the floor, Madame.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you, Mauna Kea for being here. I just
wanted to put on the record and ask the questions because it has been raised to me
about whether I have a conflict of interest in participating in today's discussion. I
just wanted to see if you have had a chance to take a look at the Charter and the
Code of Ethics.
Mr. Trask: Yes, Vice Chair, and just for clarity of the
record, the conflict of interest would be based upon the recent announcement that
you would be the Managing Director as of November 1, 2013?
Ms. Nakamura: Yes.
Mr. Trask: Yes, the County Attorney's Office has looked
at the issue. In analyzing the situation we looked at the Kaua`i County Charter
Article 20, Code of Ethics. We also looked at the Kaua`i County Code, specifically
Kaua`i County Charter Section 20...
Mr. Hooser: Chair, could we ask him to speak...
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 65 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Chair Furfaro: To speak up? Mauna Kea, is you microphone
on?
Mr. Trask: Yes. I am sorry, I will speak up louder. I am
just trying to find the pertinent section right now. I think it is Section 20.02. Yes,
it is Section 20.02, (A) through (F), as well as the Kaua`i County Code, the pertinent
sections being Section 3-1.6, Fair Treatment and Section 3-1.7, Conflicts of Interest.
In short, based upon the Sections and the law as stated, it does not appear that
there is a conflict of interest in this case. There is not.
Ms. Yukimura: There is no conflict?
Mr. Trask: There is no conflict.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you, Mauna Kea, for that opinion. I
will participate in today's discussion.
Chair Furfaro: Any other questions for the County Attorney.
If not, Mauna Kea, thank you as usual.
Mr. Trask: Thank you.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: On that note, we have done the roll call and I
am going to ask the County Clerk to read the item that we left on please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Council Chair, this is on page two (2).
COMMUNICATIONS:
C 2013-330 Communication (10/02/2013) from Councilmember Yukimura,
requesting Council consideration for the public release of the County Attorney
opinion dated September 26, 2013, relating to "Request for Legal Opinion Relating
to Whether the Council Can Establish Laws Banning the Use of Atrazine."
Chair Furfaro: May I ask that we read the second
communication as well?
C 2013-331 Communication (10/02/2013) from Council Vice Chair
Nakamura, requesting Council consideration for the public release of the "Final"
County Attorney written legal review/opinion regarding Proposed Draft
Bill No. 2491.
Chair Furfaro: Those are the communications that I would
like to receive so that we can go to the two (2) Executive Session items.
Mr. Rapozo moved to receive C 2013-330 and C 2013-331 for the record,
seconded by Ms. Nakamura.
Chair Furfaro: I have a motion to receive and a second.
Councilmember Yukimura.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 66 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you, Chair. Just a clarification that
we are receiving this, we will go into session, and get the County Attorney's input
about release, and then come back out? We could decide to receive it at the end, but
we would come out to vote on the motions to receive.
Chair Furfaro: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay, I get it.
Chair Furfaro: That is the correction you were going to
make, I believe?
Mr. Rapozo: Yes, that we have to keep the items open so
that we can vote on it when we come out of Executive Session.
Ms. Yukimura: Right. I understand.
Mr. Rapozo: I guess the proper motion would be to defer
this until after the Executive Session.
Ms. Yukimura: But we could leave a motion to receive
pending without acting on it.
Mr. Rapozo: We could.
Chair Furfaro: There will be no action. We have a motion
and a second. We will come back to it when we come out of Executive Session.
Everybody fine with that? On that note, I would like to call up the County Attorney
again.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Mr. Trask: Aloha again.
Chair Furfaro: Mauna Kea, we would like you to read the
two (2) related Executive Sessions that we just referred to in the communications.
Mr. Trask: Yes, Chair.
EXECUTIVE SESSIONS:
ES-679 Pursuant to Hawai`i Revised Statutes (HRS) Sections 92-4,
92-5(a)(4), and Kaua`i County Charter Section 3.07(E), the Office of the County
Attorney, on behalf of the Council, requests an Executive Session for Council to
consult with the County Attorney regarding the Council's release of the County
Attorney's final written legal review/opinion regarding proposed draft Bill No. 2491
and related matters. This briefing and consultation involves the consideration of
the powers, duties, privileges, immunities and/or liabilities of the Council and the
County as they relate to this agenda item.
ES-680 Pursuant to Hawai`i Revised Statutes (HRS) Sections 92-4,
92-5(a)(4), and Kaua`i County Charter Section 3.07(E), the Office of the County
Attorney, on behalf of the Council, requests an Executive Session for Council to
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 67 OCTOBER 15, 2013
consult with the County Attorney regarding the Council's release of the County
Attorney's written legal opinion dated September 26, 2013, regarding the "Request
for Legal Opinion Relating to Whether the Council Can Establish Laws Banning the
Use of Atrazine" and related matters. This briefing and consultation involves the
consideration of the powers, duties, privileges, immunities and/or liabilities of the
Council and the County as they relate to this agenda item.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Ms. Nakamura moved to convene in Executive Session for ES-679 and
ES-680, seconded by Ms. Yukimura.
Chair Furfaro: I have a motion from the Vice Chair, a
second from Councilmember Yukimura. Is there any discussion members? It has
been my tradition as Chairman, I will do a roll call vote before we go into Executive
Session. Roll call, please.
The motion to convene in Executive Session for ES-679 and ES-680 was then
put, and carried by the following vote:
FOR EXECUTIVE SESSION: Hooser, Kagawa, Nakamura,
Rapozo, Yukimura, Furfaro TOTAL — 6,
AGAINST EXECUTIVE SESSION: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Bynum TOTAL — 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Six (6) ayes.
Chair Furfaro: 6:0. We will be going into Executive Session. I
would like to clear the room and I would like to ask the members to meet in the
chambers at 9:30 a.m.
There being no objections, the Council recessed at 9:20 a.m.
There being no objections, the Council reconvened at 11:08 a.m., and
proceeded as follows:
(Mr. Bynum was noted as present.)
Chair Furfaro: Aloha, and we are back. I want to make
certain that I touch on a few particulars as Chairman of the Council. I want to
share how much I would appreciate it if everybody would adhere to the appropriate
decorum while here in the chambers for us to conduct our business. We want to
make sure that we support equal and fair treatment and opportunity for all who
wish to speak, but I do want to see if we cannot get to a vote on the Bill today one
way or the other. I also, at the discretion of myself, will limit testimony to three (3)
minutes as we have had almost sixty-five (65) days of dealings, we have had a
substantial amount of public hearings, and we do want to conclude our business
today as we do have regular Council business tomorrow not focused on this Bill.
Now, when we broke, we broke for a briefing on two (2) Executive Session items and
I do want to note that Mr. Paul Alston is here. I am sorry for the mispronunciation,
Paul, and I would allow you to speak on the Executive Sessions at this time.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 68 OCTOBER 15, 2013
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
PAUL ALSTON: Good morning. My name is Paul Alston. I
am here on behalf of Syngenta to urge you to release both of the opinions that are
the subject of the two (2) resolutions. The legal questions posed by Bill No. 2491
are complicated. They are not questions that lend themselves to answers in
response to questions in these proceedings, to short written testimony or to sound
bites or letters to the Editor of the kind that we have seen. They are ones that
require close analysis of Federal statutes, State statutes, and case law. As you
know, the proponents of the Bill have supported their views with a lengthy legal
opinion. My client and others have supported the opposition to the Bill with
sophisticated analysis and I suggest to you that the dialogue about the Bill will be
significantly advance by relapsed of the County Attorney's opinions so that all sides
can be aired, analyzed, and discussed more fully. I think that there is really no
good reason to hold back that opinion when the County Attorney has solicited and
received input from all sides. So, that is what I would urge you with respect to Bill
No. 2491 opinion. With respect to the Atrazine opinion, my client is very concerned
that anyone would suggest that the County has the authority to ban Atrazine and I
would suggest that to the extent that that is a serious issue up for discussion, that
you release that opinion as well so that we can engage in a dialogue with you and
your Attorneys about that proposition. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Paul, we have a question for you that is from
Councilmember Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: Mr. Alston.
Mr. Alston: Yes, sir.
Mr. Bynum: I sincerely appreciate you being here and
want to note that you have been here for each of our meetings and available. I
appreciate that.
Mr. Alston: Thank you.
Mr. Bynum: Given your opinion, which I have read
extensively, makes it clear that and you have said, "It is a given that you would
challenge us legally," why would we want to release our Attorneys detailed opinion
and analysis prior to what may be a lawsuit? Would you not advise clients not to do
that?
Mr. Alston: Well, if that was the advice I was going to
give, we would not have given you a thirty-eight (38) page letter that laid out the
reasons why we think the Bill is flawed. I think that in fact, both the quality and
the end result of the debate over the Bill would be affected for the better by a full
disclosure. We have given a very detailed analysis. To hear the other side would
simply further the discussion. Sooner or later we will hear the County Attorney's
opinions I suppose. That is all.
Mr. Bynum: I just have one other question which is, if
any portion of this Bill should pass today, it will become the County Attorney's
responsibility to defend that position, correct?
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 69 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Mr. Alston: I do not know the internal workings of the
County Attorney's Office and whether the Attorney under the direction of the Mayor
has the ability to simply decide not to defend any parts of the Bill. The Federal
government for example, operates in a way where the Department of Justice can,
under the guidance of the President, choose not to defend Bills that Congress
passes. I do not know how it works in the County, whether the Mayor and the
County Attorney would have the same discretion and appropriate circumstances.
Mr. Bynum: Thank you very much.
Chair Furfaro: Any other questions? Paul, thank you very
much for your testimony.
Mr. Alston: You are welcome. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Do we have anyone else in the audience
signed up on the legal Executive Session portion?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Yes. The next speaker is Anne Punohu.
Chair Furfaro: Anne, before you start, I am giving speakers
three (3) minutes.
ANNE PUNOHU: I have a question and I wanted to know if I
can ask, as a member of the general public before I give my testimony for three (3)
minutes, to please clarify something for the rest of us sitting in the room so that we
can testify properly. Is it alright if I ask a question? Can I ask a question first for
clarification?
Chair Furfaro: It is your three (3) minutes. You can ask a
question.
Ms. Punohu: My question to the Council is, if the general
public asks for the release of the opinion, does that mean that it would hurt us or
help us? Which helps the people more, to release the opinion or to not release the
opinion because I am here on the side of the people today and that is my question to
you before I give my opinion on if it should be released or not. If it does not benefit
the people and we are the clients, then I would say do not release it. If it benefits us
as the people then release it. I cannot really say either or unless I get clarification.
May I have that?
Chair Furfaro: I can give you what I feel is appropriate.
Ms. Punohu: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: And that is all I can do. I went to hotel
school, I did not go to law school so...
Ms. Punohu: That is fine.
Chair Furfaro: But I want you to know that an Executive
Session was held for legal opinions which really lead to an understanding of what
the County strategy would be.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 70 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Ms. Punohu: I see.
Chair Furfaro: Whether defending the Bill or finding
ourselves defending a countersuit. So, it is very challenging to tell you "yay" or
"nay," but it is about having a strategy for legal defense and therefore it is in
Executive Session and unless the members, majority vote to release, it is usually
kept confidential.
Ms. Punohu: Thank you for that. Then my opinion on that
is then, that if the idea is to actually fight the Bill...I mean I am a little bit confused
about what you are really actually saying. You are telling me that if you do not
release information it is generally always held as confidential and not released, and
that the County can take an either or stand on the Bill? They can actually go
against the Bill is what you are telling me? Is that what I am hearing? Is that
correct?
Chair Furfaro: Anne, I am just going to say, your
assumption is your assumption accordingly. Again, whatever the outcome is, the
reality is legal opinions form strategies for defense. That is all that I am going to
say.
Ms. Punohu: Well, then I stand by my original comment
which is whatever helps the people, I am in support of, whatever hurts the people, I
am not in support of. Mahalo.
Chair Furfaro: Wait, we have questions for you. I think
Mr. Hooser, did you have your hand up? No.
Ms. Punohu: Questions for me? That is pretty unusual.
Chair Furfaro: Mel.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Anne
for your testimony. Would you not agree that in order to have a beneficial
productive discussion though, that we should have all of the available information
or should we just use what we believe will help our cause, as a government now, as
the County, as the legislative body?
Ms. Punohu: My first gut reaction as a member of the
general public is release, release, release. But now in the last five (5) minutes that I
have been talking to you folks, I am not sure about that.
Mr. Rapozo: No. The general question is would you not
agree though, that in order to have an intelligent productive discussion on the
matter whether it is the Bill or any matter, that you would have the information
from everyone? I mean how else could you have a discussion?
Ms. Punohu: You make a good point.
Mr. Rapozo: That is just common sense for me. It just
makes sense that why would you exclude information when what we are trying to
do is have a discussion...
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 71 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Ms. Punohu: The question is, is the information going to
be used a strategy against the people, to pass the people's Bill. That is my concern.
Mr. Rapozo: The County Attorney's Office is tasked with
providing a County Attorney's opinion based on analysis of the facts and...
Ms. Punohu: We must also remember too, it is an opinion.
Mr. Rapozo: Right, exactly.
Ms. Punohu: It is not law.
Mr. Rapozo: Exactly, as is all of the other opinions that
are floating around. I mean it is opinion, but I think in general when we have a
discussion, when we want to have a productive effective discussion, would it make
sense...
Ms. Punohu: Are you releasing information though...
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me, Anne.
Ms. Punohu: I am sorry. I apologize.
Chair Furfaro: The Councilmember has the floor. You had
your three (3) minutes to pose the question. He has an opportunity to respond to
your question. Those are the rules.
Mr. Rapozo: I have known you a long time Anne. That is
why it surprises me when you say, "If it helps us, "yes," if not, "no," because I think
your character is let us put everything on the table and then make an educated and
informed decision.
Ms. Punohu: That is my normal character, but today I am
not my normal character.
Mr. Rapozo: That is fine. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Punohu: Mahalo.
Chair Furfaro: We still have questions for you Anne.
Mr. Hooser, you wanted the floor?
Mr. Hooser: Yes. I was just going to try my best to
respond. I think Councilmember Bynum really addressed that issue and I was
going to ask the question to the previous speaker whose client had threatened to
sue the County. It says that why would we want to give you all of our research,
information, and legal reasoning when you are going to sue us? Why would we not
keep that to ourselves then we can fight about it in court? Regardless of what the
opinion says, to give all of our cards to the people who are threatening to sue us
would be a difficult choice for me to make. Thank you.
Ms. Punohu: Thank you, Mr. Hooser, for your
clarifications. I really appreciate it, as a member of the general public, thank you.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 72 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Chair Furfaro: JoAnn.
Ms. Yukimura: Well, I want to try to answer your question
too, Anne. The confusion is that we are at the crossroads of two (2) different
forums. This is a legislative forum and normally it operates on the principle of
robust discussion, but if we are going to be involved in court, it is a very different
forum with different rules and principles. In court, the process is an adversarial
one so you do not disclose your strategies or information to the other side. If we are
going to court to defend Bill No. 2491 as is a possibility, then it is in my opinion and
usually Council will advise as such, that we do not reveal our hand as
Councilmember Hooser has said. But I have to say that in the legislative forum
where Attorneys have been very vocal about why Bill No. 2491 is legal in their
mind, if the advice is different by our County Attorney it would help us to have, as
Councilmember Rapozo has said, a robust discussion so the public can see all sides
of it. But that is the problem, that we are on the interface of two (2) different
forums.
Ms. Punohu: Well, this is a problem for the general public
to decide as testifiers then, when we hear all of...
Chair Furfaro: Anne, she answers your questions.
Ms. Punohu: Thank you for answering my question.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you for coming up Anne.
Ms. Punohu: Mahalo.
Chair Furfaro: Is there anyone else that wishes to sign up
on the legal questions? Have you signed up? Remember, the items that we are
talking about now are the two (2) Executive Sessions. Do I have members that have
previous appointments at 12:00 p.m.? We will take lunch at 12:00 p.m. Just
introduce yourself. Go right ahead.
HOKU CABEBE: Aloha, I am Hoku. I am from Wainiha. Yes.
Regarding the County Attorney's opinion, I think at this point this is really the
people's Bill. This is not the County's Bill, this is not the County Attorney's Bill,
this is the people's Bill, and what you folks are trying to figure out and we have
already been doing years of research. We trust people within our group have done
this and they have come up with this stuff. We have lawyers who are backing us,
who have given us opinions that we, sad to say, take way over and above your
County Attorney because this is not our first stance with your County Attorney. We
have already seen what they do and how they move and how they work. We do not
trust them regardless of what their opinion is. I just wanted to state that fact and
please just go with what the outside sources who have come in to help the people of
Kaua`i pass this Bill say, because they have come in here and we have heard them
testify. You are saying the County Attorney is going to be defending us, really
probably not. We are probably going to bring in better Attorneys to handle these
matters. Thank you very much.
Chair Furfaro: Next speaker. Who is next? Your time will
start when you introduce yourself.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 73 OCTOBER 15, 2013
HARVEST EDMONDS: My name is Harvest Edmonds and this is
about the releasing the information from the Attorney. I find it very interesting
that the Attorney for Syngenta actually said that they were looking for full
disclosure when that is what we were looking for in the passage of this Bill, is full
disclosure. I think that if releasing this information is going to be, as Gary said,
against, hard to defend later on in court, then we need to not release it. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Next speaker.
BRENT NORRIS: Brent Norris. I am representing myself. I
am sure that you are already aware that the possibility might not be that the
chemical companies are going to bring a lawsuit, rather the people may bring a
lawsuit against the County. I think you may be creating additional exposure for the
County taxpayers if you release information now without giving it additional
thought. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Next speaker. Is that all that
has signed up? Members, I am going to call the meeting back to order.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: I believe there was some discussion maybe
about deferring this until the end. Is there any further discussion? If not, I am
going to go to...yes?
Mr. Rapozo: Mr. Chair, like I stated in my question to
Anne, that in order for us to have a... I think JoAnn called it a robust discussion, I
think it is important that the public gets to see all opinions. Up until this point,
they have seen all of the opinions except the one from the County. Granted it may
be portrayed as the people's Bill, but nonetheless it is still a Council's Bill that this
body has to pass or not pass and really, the County Attorney's opinion although is
not a requirement that the Council follows the opinion, I believe it is important and
vital that the public gets to see it prior to the discussion and prior to the vote. I
understand that there are some questions about exposure, but I think the
arguments for this Bill, for and against, are quite simple. It is the preemption issue
as well as the constitutional takings issue. I mean, I think that is the two (2) big
concerns. It is no secret. This is not complicating in that sense. There are a couple
of legal arguments, but I believe that the public has a right and is entitled to seeing
the County's opinion because we have seen opinions from various other sources and
I will tell you that some of the sources, one of the Attorneys that I have met and I
am not going to mention names because I do not think that is cool. But one of the
Attorneys that met with me had not even read Chapter 149(A), the governing law of
pesticides in Hawai`i, had not read that but was quick to create an opinion. I think
the fact of the matter is the County Attorney did, and that is why I think it is
important that the public see the opinion. You can agree or disagree with the
opinion, I mean so can we. But the bottom line is it is a very complex analysis of
the situation that I believe the public should see. I see you waving your heads,
nodding your heads back there, but like Mr. Chair always says, you can never get in
trouble for having too much information. What harm is it to have the opinion out so
that the general public, and not just the ones that are here in the Council Chambers
and the ones that are downstairs, but there are a lot of people that are following
this Bill that do not make it here that have taken a side because of what they have
read in the paper. They have read opinions from Attorneys whether it is Private
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 74 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Sector Attorneys, Corporate Attorneys, or seed company Attorneys. They have read
it and they have formed an opinion based on what they have read, but yet they have
not seen the opinion of the Attorney that is going to defend the Bill. I mean, why
would we not want that, really? I am going to support the release of this opinion
today. Obviously, we need five (5) votes. I do not think we will get it, but I want it
on the record that my focus is having all available information on this matter
available to the general public and I am not going to supporting the motion to
receive and if it does not pass, then I will making a motion to approve the release.
Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Hooser.
Mr. Hooser: Yes, I will be supporting the motion to
receive. I mentioned earlier that we have been threatened with a lawsuit by two (2)
of the largest agro-chemical companies in the world who have zillions of dollars and
who have said they will sue the County for the right to spray poisons next to school,
they will sue the County if we make them tell us what they are spraying, they will
sue the County if we go so far as to do a study, everything in the Bill is bad. They
have said they would sue us so why would we give them our legal strategy? It just
does not make sense to me. I doubt that if Mr. Alston would give us the private
communications between himself and his client. The public has the same right to
see all of the testimony, Mr. Alston's testimony, Ms. Bronster's testimony, and other
testimony opposing the Bill. It is public record. You can see all sides that have
been made public. I believe this is a good Bill, I believe it is legally defensible, and I
believe it would not be in the best interest of the people of Kaua`i to release
regardless of what it says, our strategy and our information to the people who have
threatened to sue us. So, I will be voting to receive and not to release the
information.
Chair Furfaro: Members, if there is any more discussions
now that we have called back to order, I will take it now, but I want to remind you
that I will be moving this item to the final item for a vote today. Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: Does moving an item require a vote of the
Council?
Chair Furfaro: It could.
Mr. Bynum: I just want to say that there is a really big
difference between privacy and secrecy. I have been in this County for many years
now and we are and have been a County that keeps too many secrets. I fought
against those secrets for a long time. I keep saying that I am comforted by a public
record because for those of you who are new to this process, you can go back and
look at the things I say and whether they are true or not because they are on the
public record. I fought to change the law about release of public Attorneys. I voted
to release many of them. We have had lots of dialogue about the difference. This
County has a history of paying out two hundred fifty thousand dollars ($250,000) to
somebody who made a claim that we kept secret from the public for a very long
time. When the bike path got shut down, we have to pay three hundred
seventy-five thousand dollars ($375,000) to contractors and there was an attempt
made to keep that secret from the public that we paid that money. Those kinds of
secrecies I will fight against, but this is about privacy. We have a serious legal
issue here and we have a detailed legal analysis of many pages, piece by piece. As
Mr. Hooser said, Mr. Alston is not going to release all the E-mails between him and
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 75 OCTOBER 15, 2013
his clients about their legal strategy and that in essence, is what we are being asked
to do. If we do choose to release this, I will press for release of everything related to
this opinion, all of the minutes of all of the Executive Session because if you are
entitled to know the whole truth and we are going to display our legal strategy in
advance, which I think is extremely unwise, then I want you to see the whole truth.
I will be voting to receive which means not to release the opinion, not because I am
trying to keep anything secret and I have encouraged the County Attorney and my
colleagues to release an Executive summary or a synopsis if they feel that strongly,
but not the detailed point-by-point, case-by-case, with Supreme Court citings. If
you ever read a full detailed...if you have a dispute with your neighbor and your
Attorney came over and said, "You have a strong argument because you built that
wall, but it is on the property line so your neighbor has a strong argument too and it
is going to come down to this." So, your neighbor has a strong argument, are you
going to tell your neighbor, "Oh, my Attorney says you are going to win on this one."
Maybe the neighbor did not even know about that. Now, Mr. Alston is a pretty
smart guy. He probably figured out everything. Mauna Kea, who is also a really
smart guy, wrote. He wrote is for us and when I say us, I do not mean the Council,
I mean all of you. So, I will ask all of you. You are in a legal dispute, do you want
to tell your neighbor what your Attorneys told you their strengths are? That is
what this question is. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: I just want to go through some housekeeping
items really quick. We need to look at the items C 2013-330 and C 2013-331. It
seems that the Chair has been challenged on C 2103-331 to call for a vote if we are
going to defer this item to the end and C 2013-330, we had a motion to receive I
believe, before we went in. But at this time, I will go ahead and...
Mr. Rapozo: Mr. Chair, may I make a really quick request
of Mr. Bynum.
Chair Furfaro: Sure.
Mr. Rapozo: Mr. Bynum referenced the Executive
summary of the opinion which I am perfectly okay with. I am glad to hear that he
would support that. So, if that is something that we can do while you move this and
see if the County Attorney would be able to provide an Executive summary without
the detail, I am okay with that as well. I am sorry.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo has the floor.
Mr. Rapozo: I am just reiterating what Mr. Bynum said.
He said, "I have asked my colleagues and the Attorneys to release an Executive
summary without going into the detail and I am saying I am okay with that. I am
agreeing with him, that I can forgo the complete sixty-six (66) page opinion, but I
would be in support of the Executive summary as was stated by Mr. Bynum. That
is all that I said.
Chair Furfaro: I agree. You would like to respond? But I
did hear what he just reiterated you just said.
Mr. Bynum: That is not what I said.
Chair Furfaro: That is not what you said?
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 76 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Mr. Bynum: May I? What you just said was an "oops." I
should not have said that. We have a choice between bad and worse. Releasing the
opinion is a mistake. I was looking for a bad... it would be terrible to release the
County opinion in my opinion. It would be less terrible to release just the summary.
I am going to be frank, I do not want a sense that I was trying to hide behind
because the County Attorney made misgivings about our legal position. It is like,
"Do I want to release this?" No. I proposed in this process, if you are tail-bent on
releasing this, at least limit the release. But Mr. Hooser is correct. That is not on
the agenda. We cannot do that today. In my opinion, it would require a new thing
and I should have not said that because I created a faux pas.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you for your apology and Mr. Hooser's
comments are interpreted by the Chair. Mr. Hooser, you are correct on your
comments. It is not on today's agenda, but that is not Mr. Hooser's decision, that is
the Chairman's.
Mr. Bynum: I agree.
Chair Furfaro: Now, I want to move forward because we are
going to adjourn at 12:00 p.m. I will give the floor to Councilmember Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: Mr. Chair, I would like to give some
comments about whether to release or not to release. To not release the County
Attorney's opinion does create an unfair playing field in terms of our discussion
about the Bill. I actually was aghast at some of my legal colleagues who endorsed
passage of the Bill based on their legal judgments because I do not think they have
really looked closely at the law and releasing the County Attorney's opinion would
show where we have to look at the law. It is important for the public to understand
that legal issues are not simple. Some of you have been lobbying to re-insert the
moratorium and the Environmental Impact Study (EIS), but in my opinion and
based on some other lawyers opinions it would make the Bill far harder to defend
and to establish County jurisdiction. It would be useful to have a robust discussion
on the legal opinions. However, there is also integrity of process and I just know
that the integrity of the court process will be jeopardized if we release basically
something within the Attorney-client privilege. So, I am not going to vote for
release.
Chair Furfaro: I would like to go back and do a little
housekeeping right now with the Clerk. Madame Clerk, what I would like to do is
first look at item C 2013-330 and I would like to look at C 2013-330 which was an
opinion that dealt with the use of Atrazine and so forth. I would like to see if there
is a motion to receive that item as earlier stated before we went in. I want to get
that off of your agenda. Then I will go to C 2013-331. On C 2013-331, there was an
implied motion to take action now versus the end of the meeting. I will have to take
a vote on that first. JoAnn, do you want to make a motion for C 2013-330 which is
at the receipt of Atrazine Executive Session?
Ms. Yukimura: Mr. Chair, just a procedural clarification.
With the issue about the release of the County Attorney's opinion on Bill No. 2491,
are you deferring that to the end of this agenda then?
Chair Furfaro: No, what I am taking to the end of this
agenda is a vote to either vote on it now or to put it at the end. That was the
challenge made of the Chair's opinion. I want to put it at the end.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 77 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Ms. Yukimura: Unless we appeal the decision of the Chair, I
think you can do it by your decision. I just want to make sure that is off the table
and we are at the next item.
Chair Furfaro: Yes. We are at C 2013-330. I want to get
that.
Ms. Yukimura: That is the ban of Atrazine?
Chair Furfaro: That is the Atrazine and I appreciate you
sharing that comment at the Chair's discretion. It is a way of living aloha. But I
am showing my courtesy here since one (1) member challenged that vote. I will ask
to vote to go to the end or vote on it now. We will see what we have. But let us take
care of the Atrazine.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay, and I believe there is a motion to
receive on the floor with respect to that.
Chair Furfaro: Yes, there is.
Ms. Yukimura: As the person who made the proposal to
release the opinion, I am either willing to have us all vote for or whoever, but we
can either take action to receive it or I can withdraw it. Who made the motion
though?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: There is a motion and a second.
Councilmember Rapozo and it was seconded by Councilmember Nakamura.
Ms. Yukimura: So, either if I ask to withdraw it then you
can withdraw the motion or we can go ahead and vote on it if you want to. I have
said that I have been looking into the possibility of banning Atrazine so I asked for
this County Attorney's opinion and then when I got the opinion in October 2nd or 3rd,
I thought that it would be helpful in helping the public understand the legal issue
surrounds Bill No. 2491 even though it is not exactly on point. It does address the
doctrine of preemption, but because it is tangentially related and we have so much
business to do, I am willing to just take it off of the table for now and wait for
another time. I think we best spent our time on the substance of Bill No. 2491
instead.
Mr. Rapozo: Just call for the question. You need five (5)
votes. I do not think you will get five (5) votes to release this. So, I will just call for
the question, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Yukimura: That is fine because I will be voting to
receive as well.
Chair Furfaro: The question has been called. Motion on the
table is a motion to receive with a second. Any further discussion? If not, oh you
have?
Mr. Bynum: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Go ahead.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 78 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Mr. Bynum: I am also going to be voting to receive but I
want to say for the record that I first learned of this opinion when it appeared on
the agenda to be released. I did not know there was an opinion. I never saw the
opinion. It was not provided to me. Yesterday, I still did not have it. I was
informed that it had been put in this binder a week ago. I have been the biggest
advocate for the release of opinions in the past and we desperately need to look at
this process because of the way this one was handled was inappropriate in my
opinion. There is no culprit, it is just we have not established these norms and the
Council needs to. But I am going to be voting in support of this.
Chair Furfaro: Any further comments?
Mr. Rapozo: Mr. Chair, just really quick. I just want to
defend the staff because I do not want the public to think that people are hiding
things from us. That opinion was provided to our binders last week at the last
meeting when we get the agenda. We know where our Attorney's opinions are if we
need to go look for it. I want to defend our staff, that I know Mr. Bynum said that
he only found out last night from Councilmember Yukimura, but we all got the
agenda last week, we all got the opinion last week, and if he failed to take a look at
it then that is an issue that he is dealing with, not our staff. I just want to make it
clear, that our staff provides us with the documentation, Mr. Chair, as you know on
time. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: I know as well as most of the procedures, I
have set up over the last four (4) years. I am going to call for the vote.
Mr. Bynum: I want to respond to what Mr. Rapozo just
said.
Chair Furfaro: I am going to call for the vote.
The motion to receive C 2013-330 for the record was then put, and was
carried by the following vote:
FOR RECEIPT: Bynum, Hooser, Kagawa, Nakamura,
Rapozo, Yukimura, Furfaro TOTAL — 7,
AGAINST RECEIPT: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING:None TOTAL — 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING:None TOTAL — 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Seven (7) ayes to receive.
Chair Furfaro: The vote is 7:0. Thank you. Now, we will go
to C 2013-331 and I am going to recognize Mr. Bynum who wanted to have a
discussion about moving this towards the end of the agenda or voting on it now.
Mr. Bynum, you have the floor.
Mr. Bynum: Chair, I am going to ask you for a moment of
personal privilege to respond to what Mr. Rapozo said.
Chair Furfaro: Go right ahead.
Mr. Bynum: I made no criticism of our staff and I
consider Mr. Rapozo's response kind of a cheap shot. We are in a very intense
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 79 OCTOBER 15, 2013
period in this Council, I spoke the truth. I did not know this opinion existed until it
appeared on the Council agenda and now I am going to say, "Oh, it was related to
Bill No. 2491 which is inappropriate." This was put in by the Staff in the binder a
week ago. I did not know that. So, I was making no criticism of our Staff and I
think our staff knows that.
Chair Furfaro: Your apology is well accepted for the Staff.
Now, Mr. Bynum, we are on C 2013-331. I will give you the floor as well.
Mr. Bynum: I do not have a position on moving this until
the end, but I wanted a discussion because whether we release this opinion or not,
should not be dependent on the outcome of Bill No. 2491. Whether the Bill passes
or not, some future Council may want to bring up similar issues. So, I am
concerned that moving it until the end is to have the outcome of the Bill determine
the outcome of this vote on release and I do not think that makes sense. I am
posing that as a question. I do not know why we would not proceed with the agenda
as originally planned. What is the purpose of moving it to the end?
Chair Furfaro: Is there any member that wants the floor?
Mr. Kagawa, you have the floor.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you, Chair. I believe that in any
contentious Bill, and this Bill is certainly as contentious as it gets, is it the County
Attorney's job to render advice or opinions to Councilmembers and to the public? I
do not believe the Councilmembers are privileged to just keep that information for
themselves on a contentious Bill and not share it with members of the public. It
does not say what way the Judge is going to decide. It just renders an opinion and
it is a very —he put in a lot of work in this. I think Mauna Kea did a good job in
giving his opinion as to what the County needs to be aware of. For those reasons, I
support Councilmember Rapozo's intention of releasing the opinion and we can vote
whichever way we want on the Bill. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Is there any more discussion on the position
of this vote? Vice Chair, you have the floor.
Ms. Nakamura: Yes, I just think it would be productive to
move on with the item, the main issue at hand, which is Bill No. 2491 at second
reading, and then just deal with this opinion after following that decision. I just
think that is a more useful use of our time.
Chair Furfaro: Any further discussion? Mr. Hooser, you
have the floor.
Mr. Hooser: Yes, I concur with Councilmember Bynum
that if we move it or we do not move it, my position remains the same, that I believe
it would be unwise at this time. This issue is not going away regardless of what
happens today. This issue will stay remain, the legal issue would still remain, and
the interest of the County would not be served. Again, the threats of lawsuits will
still remain and so I would just say, deal with it now. But whatever the will of the
majority wants to do.
Chair Furfaro: Well, what the majority wants to do needs a
motion first.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 80 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Mr. Bynum: Mr. Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Yes.
Mr. Bynum: I just wanted a discussion and I am not
objecting.
Ms. Yukimura: We already have a motion.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: We have a motion to receive on the floor.
Mr. Hooser: Oh, there is a motion to receive on the floor
already?
Ms. Yukimura: Yes.
Mr. Hooser: Call the vote.
Chair Furfaro: Call for the vote by roll call, please.
The motion to receive C 2013-331 for the record was then put, and was
carried by the following vote:
FOR RECEIPT: Bynum, Hooser, Nakamura, Yukimura,
Furfaro TOTAL — 5,
AGAINST RECEIPT: Kagawa, Rapozo TOTAL — 2,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
Chair Furfaro: The vote is 5:2. Did I count that right?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: The floor recognizes Councilmember
Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you. I just wanted to explain for the
public. The motion to receive was a motion to not release the opinion. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you for visiting that. Again, that vote
was 5:2. Now, for the Clerk's Office, I would like to go to the receipt of the approval
of the Committee Report and after we receive the Committee Report, we will go to
lunch so that when we return we will in fact find ourselves dealing with the actual
Bill. But we need to receive the Economic Development (Sustainability /
Agriculture / Food / Energy) & Intergovernmental Relations Committee Report.
COMMITTEE REPORT:
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (SUSTAINABILITY / AGRICULTURE / FOOD /
ENERGY) & INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS COMMITTEE:
A report (No. CR-EDR 2013-06) submitted by the Economic Development
(Sustainability / Agriculture / Food / Energy) & Intergovernmental Relations
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 81 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Committee, recommending that the following be approved as amended on second
and final reading:
"Bill No. 2491 — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE TO AMEND THE
KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED, BY ADDING A NEW
ARTICLE 22 TO CHAPTER 22, RELATING TO PESTICIDES AND
GENETICALLY MODIFIED ORGANISMS,"
Mr. Rapozo moved for approval of the report, seconded by Mr. Hooser, and
unanimously carried.
Chair Furfaro: The vote is 7:0. On that note, we have
members that have to be at a place at 12:00 p.m., and we will adjourn and we will
adjourn...
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Recess.
Chair Furfaro: ...until ten (10) past 1:00 p.m.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Recess.
Mr. Rapozo: Recess.
Chair Furfaro: Sorry. We will recess until ten (10) past
1:00 p.m. for a lunch period. When we come back, we will be dealing with item (I),
the Bill and the Resolution.
There being no objections, the Council recessed at 11:51 p.m.
There being no objections, the Council reconvened at 1:28 p.m., and
proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: We are now going to take testimony on the
Bill as it came out of Committee. Can I turn the floor over to the Deputy County
Clerk? You will be allowed three (3) minutes to speak.
There being no objections, Bill No. 2491, Draft 1 was taken out of the order.
BILL FOR SECOND READING:
Bill No. 2491, Draft 1 — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE TO AMEND THE
KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED, BY ADDING A NEW ARTICLE 22
TO CHAPTER 22, RELATING TO PESTICIDES AND GENETICALLY MODIFIED
ORGANISMS: Mr. Hooser moved to approve Bill No. 2491 on a second and final
reading, and that it be transmitted to the Mayor for his approval, seconded by
Mr. Bynum.
Chair Furfaro: I do want to remind everybody of my
comments earlier. I would certainly appreciate as Chairman that we adhere to the
Rules of the Council and the rules of the chamber as we continue to do our business.
First speaker please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The first speaker is Brent Norris.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 82 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Chair Furfaro: While Brent is coming up, again, this is my
last announcement for anyone who wants to speak. Staff, the list has ended, right?
Mr. Rapozo: Mr. Chair if I could. I just wanted to say that
the ADA speakers equates to four and a half(4.5) hours.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. So, four and a half (4.5) hours. I am
sorry my math was bad. We have four and a half(4.5) hours of testimony before we
got to a point where the Council can begin its work. You have the floor sir. Three
(3) minutes. Introduce yourself.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Mr. Norris: Thank you, Chair Furfaro. Thank you,
Councilmembers. I will make it short. I just want to implore you one more time to
vote to pass the Bill, realize that there is a lot going on. I would like for you to
make an ethical decision today. I am not as concerned about a scientific decision.
Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Next speaker is Journey Zephier.
Chair Furfaro: Jeremy?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Journey.
Chair Furfaro: Journey, sorry. My apologies. Who is the
next speaker after that so we can be prepared?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Bonnie Bator.
JOURNEY ZEPHIER: Aloha. My father is a Chief, my grandfather
was a Chief. I am here to represent the heiki of Kaua`i and the seventh generation.
I am going to look each of you in the eyes for thirty (30) seconds as you look in my
eyes. Know that your vote today is for me, for all of the children, and the seven (7)
generations to come. It is our future. I will start with Ross to my right.
Chair Furfaro: This period of time is for testimony.
Mr. Zephier: Mel. Nadine. Jay. Tim. JoAnn. Gary.
Chair Furfaro: That was your three (3) minutes.
Mr. Zephier: Today I will vote...
Chair Furfaro: That was your three (3) minutes. Next
speaker please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Bonnie Bator followed by
Robert Pa.
BONNIE BATOR: Hi, my name is Bonnie Bator. I have the
opportunity to be here to represent myself and my ohana because I have taken the
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 83 OCTOBER 15, 2013
day off from work to support Bill No 2419. We wholeheartedly support
Bill No. 2491 that promotes healthy babies, keiki, kapuna, marine life, and the lepo
of ko`i. Bill No. 2491 will hopefully stop the eighteen (18) tons of Restricted Use
Pesticides (RUP) from being dumped on our island. Eighteen tons (18) of Restricted
Use Pesticides used annually not only contaminates our keiki, kupuna, but the aina
and also ends up in the ocean affecting the reefs surrounding Kaua`i. The reefs of
Kaua`i are dying. What about all of the fish that everyone wants to catch? The
Hawai`i Health Information Corporation, June 25, 2004, Issue Number 3,
www.hhic.org stated, "Kaua`i County residents have the highest asthma
hospitalization rates of all Counties with hospitalization rates among children zero
(0) to four (4) almost two (2) times greater on Kaua`i than Honolulu, Hawai`i, and
Maui Counties. Between 1995 and 2002 asthma hospitalizations increased nearly
twenty percent (20%) among the elderly. In 2002 one (1) in five (5) hospitalization
asthma patients was sixty-five (65) years of age and the cost on the average was
twice as much to treat per stay. Additionally, the Hawai`i Department of Health,
Health and Vital Statistics stated, `Among the islands, Kaua`i has the highest
asthma prevalence rates."' Autism is rapidly increasing. It is about one in every
eighty (80) births. Pesticide use is linked to autism. Toxicity in our environment,
especially Restricted Use Peptides, is also associated in the cause of various
developmental disabilities and birth defects. The bottom line, profits of the trillion
dollar chemical industries who spew eighteen (18) tons of unrestricted use
pesticides annually on Kaua`i at the expense of the health and generations of the
yet unborn is criminal and obscene. To wait two (2) months until the 2014
Legislative Session convenes for the legislation to be passed to circumvent Home
Rule of Kaua`i County to override the health of our island, its people, and the
unborn is immoral. Where is the conscious of the Kaua`i County Councilmembers?
Will you bow to the trillion dollar entities, those which weld the power that trillions
of dollars hold? Please, members of Kaua`i Council, please vote for passage of
Bill No. 2491 which has been watered down considerably from it first reading in
June. Mahalo plenty, and here is copies if anyone wants any.
Chair Furfaro: Next speaker please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Next speaker is Robert Pa, followed by
Dustin Barca.
ROBERT PA: Aloha members of the County Council.
Chair Furfaro: Do you have a new mo opuna?
Mr. Pa: I do.
Chair Furfaro: Good for you. Congratulations.
Mr. Pa: I was sitting there at the window after she
was born, and I looked out of the window and what do I see? Genetically Modified
Organisms (GMO), Pioneer right outside of the window. She does not have a chance
the minute she walks out of that room.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Pa, you have to introduce yourself before
you go on.
Mr. Pa: Chief Robert Paoli Pa from the Polynesian
Kingdom of Atooi. We ask you folks sincerely to pass this Bill. Our people have the
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 84 OCTOBER 15, 2013
right to know, each and every day. If people took so long to notice this Bill or to
learn about this Bill, it is not our kuleana. That is their kuleana for taking their
time and not really opening their eyes and seeing what is going on. I look out that
window today. Tears come from my eyes because my granddaughter does not have
a chance the minute she walks outside of that door with the East wind blowing, she
is going to get the first breath of what? Pesticides, right outside of the door of the
hospital. Please, please, pass this Bill. I cannot see how we cannot even get
together at this point if this Bill does not pass. We, the people, vote you people in to
protect and to serve us, the people of the land not the entities that come with dollars
and billion dollars because money is not worth a breath of life. A breath of life is
worth ten (10) times more that dollars will ever be worth. Dollars are paper. We
breathe air, we live air, I humbly ask you folks, think about this. I know you folks
have a good thought about what is going on. It is not about our pockets, it is about
our life, it is about our history, it is about our mo opunas, my mo`opuna's mo opunas
that are not even thought of yet. That is the people that I want to breathe fresh air.
Our waters, look at the bees that has been dying on our beaches. Not too many
people are pointing it out. Those bees are dying from these pesticides. Once those
bees are gone, that is our nourishment for us, is honey. It is our number one
nourishment and we are killing it. We are allowing these people to come and kill
our culture. I just humbly ask you folks, please, for you grandchildren, your
children's' children that are not born yet. We all must live in the same place. Keola
and Kapono Beamer's song says it perfectly. It is amazing how we all live in this
same place and we all the same hearts. So, please let us join our hearts together.
The blue and the red is purple. That is our island color. Those fields out there can
be done with hand. They still can have their jobs. These people cannot leave until
they replenish that land and that is there security. Those people with the blue
shirts are replenishing that land for that company who has done that to our land. I
am sorry that the people on the west side are feeling this and that is their job right
now. But we are talking about the future of our children.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you, Mr. Pa.
Mr. Pa: And that King asked to please, have a good
heart when you do this. God bless you all.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Next speaker is Dustin Barca, followed by
Erika Schneider.
DUSTIN BARCA: Aloha. Dustin Barca, `Ohana 0 Kaua`i. I do
not know how much more times we are going to come over here and have these
discussions. I think you folks heard all of the explanations, and all of the issues.
You have heard it from enough doctors, you have heard it from enough parents with
kids with problems, and you have heard from enough residents. It is not just West
Side, these people are in Po`ipu. My friend's in-laws live right across from the
fields. They are waking up with bloody noses in the middle of the night and it is not
an issue that is new. This is the same things that were happening in Waimea years
ago, same thing that happened at the schools. I do not know how much we have to
hear. I do not know how much more. Do you know what I mean? It is almost like a
funny joke already. It is like what is going on here? We are not stupid. We are
very intelligent people. We all study every single night of our lives, every day of our
lives on this issue; the good and the bad and we come with the conclusion that this
is not good for the future of our island. This is not good. What is going here is not
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 85 OCTOBER 15, 2013
pono. It is against the culture and it is against the future of our island and our
people. This is the opposite of aloha aina. Aloha aina is so easy to follow. Love
and respect the land and the land is going to love and respect you back. What is
going on here is the opposite. They are spraying close to six (6) times more per acre
than anywhere in the Country. They are only thinking about profit and money.
They are not thinking about the outcome. They are not thinking about the
possibilities. They are not thinking about the effects. They are thinking about
profit. We were waiting for the Governor. He slapped us in the face. We were
waiting for the Mayor, he slapped us in the face too and he was blaring about it for
one (1) week. He was at the march in Po`ipu. He was at the march over here, he is
at the meeting over there. I think you know enough. You know enough of what is
going on in this island. You know what is pono in your heart. Do you know that I
mean? We all know what is pono, now, let us go pono. Let us pass the Bill, not the
buck. Mahalo nui. The time is now.
Chair Furfaro: Next speaker, please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Erika Schneider,
followed by Hoku Cabebe.
ERIKA SCHNEIDER: Aloha. I am Erika Schneider and that
thirteen (13) year old boy that came up here and asked to look into each of your eyes
for a few moments, that is my son. His father is a Chief, his grandfather is a Chief,
and he cares about the children and the seventh generation because that is his
kuleana, that is his responsibility. He will be a Chief one day and that is why he
asked to look into each of your eyes, so that you could see who you are voting for.
You are voting for the children of this island and for their children and their
grandchildren and their great grandchildren, and your generations following you
down to the seventh generation. He did not get to read his last statement which
usually at the three (3) minutes everyone gets a final statement at the end, so I am
going to read it for him because he had tears in his eyes when he sat down. He did
not get to say this to you. His last statement was, "Today you will vote to past he
Bill and protect us kids and future generations or you will vote no or defer the Bill
and sell out the children of Kaua`i." Now, I have been to every single one of these
meetings. I was out there with Journey last night. That little kid slept on the
concrete for eighteen (18) hours in the rain so that he could come here and look into
your eyes today and his reason was, "I want to be there when they vote. I want to
be there when they vote." I have heard these mothers come in and ask you politely
and we have been asking politely; and I have heard the mothers come in and say,
"My baby was born with too many fingers. My baby was born with two (2) thumbs.
My baby was missing toes. My baby had a congenital heart defect. We have heard
the Obstetrics and Gynecology (OB/GYN), the doctors that deliver our babies telling
us. They are seeing ten (10) times the rate of a particular rare heart birth defect
over in that hospital and other birth defects and miscarriages and stillborn babies.
We trust them to deliver our babies. We should trust them to know that there a
problem and we need this Bill passes. We cannot wait one more day. If you are
pregnant woman in your first trimester, one more day of exposure could be enough
to push you past the threshold of toxicity so that your baby is born with a birth
defect. We cannot defer this Bill and I am angry that the Mayor came here and
asked you to defer this Bill. I think he is a nice guy personally. I really like him. I
love our Mayor. I admire him. But the fact that he did not read the research, he
did not read the reports, he did not know what was being sprayed, he had no clue
what was going on, and said he just read that Bill and he is asking you to defer it
for two (2) months while our children continue to suffer, while pregnant women may
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 86 OCTOBER 15, 2013
have babies with birth defects or lose their child if we wait two (2) more months.
That is not acceptable to me. It is not. Thank you. Please pass the Bill today.
Chair Furfaro: We have a question for you. JoAnn, you
have the floor.
Ms. Yukimura: Erika, I know you have been here at every
meeting and I am in awe of the kind of dedication that you and others have
demonstrated. If we pass the Bill today and say the Mayor votes is, but does not
veto is if we delay a month or so, will that make the process faster?
Ms. Schneider: If you pass the Bill today...
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me, just a second. I am going to tell
the audience this again. Let us me mutually respectful here, please. That is the
way we should do things here on Kaua`i. Now, you have the floor to answer the
Councilmember. Go right ahead.
Ms. Schneider: I understand what you are asking and thank
you for asking. The basic answer is, if you pass the Bill today and the Mayor vetoes
it, there are thousands and thousands and thousands of angry mothers on this
island right now. They have gone beyond begging and they are to the point of anger
and he will not be re-elected. He will not sit as Mayor again in the County. That
will be the result and we will take this Bill and we will bring it before Council as an
initiative by the community. This Bill will be passed one way or another and it can
be your legacy or not.
Ms. Yukimura: But you know, it will take probably another
six (6) to eight (8) months to a year to do an initiative and so I mean, it will
probably be put on the ballot for next election. If we can get it passed in one (1)
month, would that not be faster?
Ms. Schneider: I think that the Mayor's failure to do the
research the last two (2) months and to keep on top of the Bill and to do all of the
work that you folks have done and the community has done is not your problem and
it is not the community's problem. It is his problem to implement and we should
pass the Bill today.
Ms. Yukimura: But if you can get the Bill in place and
signed or passed without signature in one (1) month, would that not be faster?
Ms. Schneider: I feel that if we wait one (1) month that the
State is going to supplant us with legislation to prevent the County from having the
power to do that and that we will not be able to pass the Bill at all.
Ms. Yukimura: They cannot do that until they convene the
Legislature in January. If we can pass it in one (1) month...
Ms. Schneider: They are having a special session and they
could attach it at the bottom of a Bill just like they did the Monsanto Protection Act.
Ms. Yukimura: A controversial subject like this? But okay,
thank you.
Ms. Schneider: Mahalo, JoAnn.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 87 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Chair Furfaro: Next speaker. Give me two (2) names,
please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa Next speaker is Hoku Cabebe, followed by
Ray Catania.
Ms. Cabebe: Mahalo for hearing me out again. Hoku
from Wainiha. Thank you again, everybody for hearing me out. It just goes to show
you folks how strongly, not just myself. You folks have seen it. You folks know. Do
you know what I mean? We need to pass this Bill for this community. We really,
really do and not in a month, today. We need it today. Have faith in us. Have faith
in your Kaua`i people. We will help you folks do this. If it means that much to us,
we are not going to hear yes and walk away. We are going to make sure that this is
implemented. We are going to make sure our keiki are safe. We are going to make
sure our aina is safe. That is what this is about. It is not about who we are going
to elect, what is going on, what we have to do today, what we do not have today,
who has to work, who does not have to work; none of that. This has to do with
keeping our babies safe and a vote yes today will do that because we will show these
companies that we are not dilly dallying. We are not falling for their charades. We
are passing this Bill and we are getting it done and no matter how long it takes us,
we are going to get it done. The first step to getting this done is "yes" to
Bill No. 2491 for the people of Kaua`i, for the children of this world who deserve to
know what these companies spray, where they spray it, when they are spraying it,
and what is the effects of spraying it. The way that we are going to find out here on
Kauai is by implementing this Bill. This community is going to make sure that the
world knows what these companies are doing. If it is safe, thank God. We will be
the first ones leasing them every agricultural land that will feed the world. Kaua`i is
full of aloha. You think we do not want to do that? We want to feed the world. We
just want to make sure that Kaua`i is safe while we are feeding the world. Please.
Thank you very much for your time, everyone's time; Mayor's time, everyone. All of
my `ohana behind me. Thank you folks so much for the effort and the time. Now,
let us pass the Bill and let us show the world what Kaua`i has. Yes?
Chair Furfaro: JoAnn, you have the floor.
Ms. Yukimura: If the court kicks this Bill out, how are we
going to achieve this?
Ms. Cabebe: Fern, Dustin, Sol, Aunty. This is not a
question for me. It is a question for the community. Pass the Bill and we will make
it work. Pass the Bill, we will make it work. Thank you. Pass the Bill.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you.
Ms. Cabebe: Your question is not going to take today to
answer. Pass the Bill and we will work it out. Gary is right here, Tim is right
here...
Chair Furfaro: Hoku...
Ms. Cabebe: We got this. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Who is speaking after Hoku?
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 88 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa It is Ray Catania, followed by Sol Kahn.
RAY CATANIA: Aloha everybody, especially the brothers and
sisters out here in the red shirts and the fighters who want to make sure that this
Bill passes. I think you folks have to pass the Bill right away and the thing is that
the information is out there. I have talked to plenty people, I have talked to a lot of
Union workers, I have talked to a lot of average working people, and they want
disclosure; they want to know what is going on. I have two (2) daughters. They are
older right now, but they have asthma. I am concerned about them. I want to know
what is going on in the community, pertaining to the pesticides that are being used.
But here is one point that I really want to speak to. It is the statement that
Mr. Hooser and Mr. Bynum and our movement has divided the community. We did
not divide the community. We are bringing the community together. Any time
working people unite, those organizers that bring in the workers together, bring in
the ordinary folks together, we are told that we are dividing the community. In
1841, the first strike in Hawai`i's history right there in Koloa in 1841, the workers
were told that they were dividing the community. The workers who were fighting
for justice in Hanapepe, thirteen (13) of them got massacred called the Hanapepe
massacre in the 1930's, they were told that they were dividing the community. The
Niumalu Nawiliwili tenants who were fighting to stop eviction were told that they
were dividing the community. Nukoli`i, the same thing. Thirty-two (32) people got
arrested over there. Superferry, those of us that were involved in the fight were
told that we are dividing the community. This is not about dividing the community,
this is about bringing people together for positive social change that will benefit the
greatest amount of people. You folks have heard it, you have heard all of the
information that is going on, you folks can make a decision today; a decision to pass
the Bill. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa Sol Kahn, followed by Rugy Staggers.
SOL KAHN: Aloha Council. My name is Sol Kahn and I
think I have been pretty respectful to all of you at this point, every single one of you
whether I agreed with what you are saying or not; the Mayor included. But this is
it. How do you not know about the Bill? I have talked to you every single time,
Mr. Mayor. Every time I see you I talk to you about this. How do you not know?
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me, Sol. You need to address us.
Mr. Kahn: I apologize. This Bill needs to be passed.
There are no questions about it. We have companies that give donations after
donations after donations after donations to make themselves look good, to ensure
that they can have a place here. They just keep giving people money. They do not
want to give people money. They are not good companies. These are corporations
that kill. Their job is to kill. It is simple. They are giving all of this money and all
of these donations so that they look good and then so many people are buying into it
and they are bad corporations. They are not good for the land. They are not good
for the kids. Like I said, I have been rally respectful, but if you folks do not pass
this Bill, I am going to be pretty pissed and I am going to lose faith in a lot of you
folks. It is not going to be pretty. There is a whole community out there that is
getting really, really angry. I was here since 3:30 p.m., yesterday sleeping in the
rain, thunderstorm, lightening. I hate this. I do not like this. We have to do this.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 89 OCTOBER 15, 2013
How can you folks not just think this is common sense to pass? How can you not?
Seriously.
Chair Furfaro: Councilmember Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: Are you pau, Sol?
Mr. Kahn: No, I am not pau.
Ms. Yukimura: Sorry.
Chair Furfaro: His time is up though.
Mr. Kahn: Now I am pau.
Chair Furfaro: Did that go off?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa No.
Chair Furfaro: Sol, you may continue.
Mr. Kahn: I just beg you folks really, from the bottom of
my heart. This Bill needs to pass. It needs to pass today. A deferral is not going to
work. We cannot go on doing this any longer. This needs to pass. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Councilmember, you have the floor.
Ms. Yukimura: Sol, if you really want this Bill to pass and
stick why would you not wait a month if that is a possibility and it could die if we
pass it today through a Mayor's veto that we cannot override?
Mr. Kahn: Because there is a lot of "ifs." We are living
in "ifs." We are all learning about this political process.
Ms. Yukimura: I know.
Mr. Kahn: And there has been so many "ifs." "Ifs" here,
"ifs" there. We are tired. We have done our homework. We have done a lot here. I
have seen people that do not sleep.
Ms. Yukimura: I know Sol. But we are trying to get a Bill
passed.
Mr. Kahn: We are trying to get a Bill passed. The
people are saying that it is time.
Ms. Yukimura: It is time because you are all tired? You
know how we...
Mr. Kahn: No, the people are saying it is time.
Ms. Yukimura: We took ten (10) years to save the Hanalei
Bridge and ten (10) years to fight Nukoli`i. To say that you are tired, this...
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 90 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Mr. Kahn: We are not going to stop.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay, good.
Mr. Kahn: No matter how tired we are, we are not going
to stop.
Ms. Yukimura: I am just asking...
Chair Furfaro: Sol, I want to remind you of the rules.
Mr. Hooser: Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me, Mr. Hooser. When I give the
Councilmember the floor, she poses you a question, you get to respond to it.
Mr. Kahn: I apologize.
Chair Furfaro: Not enter into an ongoing dialogue. So, pose
a question Councilmember.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes, and I take responsibility. It was getting
into a dialogue and I am partly responsible for that. Thank you. That is all that I
have.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Hooser, you have the floor.
Mr. Hooser: Just a point of personal privilege. We have a
lot of people here that want to share their mana o with us and I do not believe that
members need to grill each one about their position. I think that we should respect
their position. We can ask questions to the point and then we move on the agenda.
I also have a position. I also have a perspective. I could do the same thing. We
could all do the same thing. I do not think it is fair to the people testifying. I do not
think it is fair to the process. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you the feedback. Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: I agree. I have been trying to keep from
asking questions. Ms. Yukimura is promoting her agenda that she put in the
newspaper today through question and answers. It is not an appropriate use of this
time. We are here to hear from you. Thank you.
Mr. Kahn: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Enough said. Sol, thank you very much for
your testimony.
Mr. Kahn: Thank you. Please pass the Bill.
Chair Furfaro: Next speaker, please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Ruby Staggers followed by Katie Horgan.
Chair Furfaro: Katie Morgan would be next.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 91 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Katie Horgan.
Chair Furfaro: You have the floor.
RUBY STAGGERS: Hi, my name is Ruby Staggers. I do not have
anything prepared like I did not have it last time because I feel like the best just
comes from the heart. I am going to ask you, everybody on this room and everybody
that is listening, to take off your political hats, go back in time, and just think about
what it is like to be a child and how you just trust on your parents and your
caregivers to represent you in the best way possible. Well, think about all of these
kids that are dying and these kids that are getting sick who cannot just raise their
hands and go, can we get this done, and they have to depend on the adults. That
would be us, that would be you. This is an ethical question. It is not about who is
getting sued. Just think about being human. Just have five (5) seconds and go,
God, just let us do something. This is about respecting human life. I can tell you
that I was just on the phone with a woman who lived in this house in Waimea, it is
a cancer cluster. Within several years of living in this house, four (4) of the four (4)
people who lived in that house have cancer. Two (2) of them are dead. What are
you folks waiting for? Are you waiting for these companies to be able to hide more
things from us? I mean, while life is passing and heath is being compromised, my
God. Please. Jesus Christ.
Chair Furfaro: Do you need a moment to compose yourself?
Ms. Staggers: No.
Chair Furfaro: I can call you back.
Ms. Staggers: I am asking you to just be human. Just take
off your political everything, agenda, and just go, wait, let us just look at it. If you
look at a child...
Chair Furfaro: I am going to ask you again. Do you need a
moment to compose yourself? I will have you come back.
Ms. Staggers: No. Thank you. If you look at a child who is
sitting in courtroom and the case is about molestation or rape, the court is going to
rule in favor of the child because they want to protect. This is not different. This is
no different. This is our health, okay? I am sorry. Mayor, I am so disappointed
because you just—you sit here and you....
Chair Furfaro: We are on recess.
There being no objections, the Council recessed at 2:02 p.m.
There being no objections, the Council reconvened at 2:12 p.m., and
proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: We are back in order. First of all, I want to
share with everybody that clearly, this is a stressful and a stress-laden agenda
item. It is going to take everybody's kokua and mutual respect. Earlier there was a
young man that used his time to demonstrate a cultural practice of looking at us. I
allowed him his three (3) minuets time, but we need to respectfully listen and I ask
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 92 OCTOBER 15, 2013
that there is respect from you even in this stressful situation to communicate to us
your position. We have about forty (40) plus more speakers to go through?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Yes. Next speaker is Katie Horgan, followed
by Harvest Edmonds.
KATIE HORGAN: Hello. I am a registered voter. The last time
I was here I talked about my drive going to the West Side every morning to Mana
and I just want to stress that the situation has not gotten any less urgent. We
cannot accept a two (2) month deferral. I am hoping that we will continue to work
on the amendments today and one I would like to address in particular, and that is
the buffer zones for dwellings. It reads, "No pesticide of any kind may be used
within five hundred (500) feet of any dwelling, except that if the commercial
agricultural entity has an approved Soil and Water Conservation Plan that
explicitly addresses pesticide drift on the dwelling, then no pesticide of any kind
may be used within one hundred (100) feet of any dwelling." I ask that the
language be changed to say that the Soil and Water Conservation Plan that
explicitly demonstrates that there is not pesticide drift occurring in that zone. A
simple way to show that the agricultural entity should at their own expense go out
there and while they are spraying, test the water, test the air, and show us that it is
not happening and if it should happen with say, one thousand (1,000) feet it is
occurring and we can document that and that should be their buffer zone. So, if
they want to take the risk and say, "Hey, five hundred (500) feet, we cannot do
that." Well, at your own expense demonstrate this to us, show us. I could live with
that as a parent who has my child in a high risk zone within that area. I just want
to encourage you to keep working through the amendments. I do think that yes, we
cannot wait for two (2) months. Two (2) months is not going to accomplish
anything. If you folks need a week to talk things through, that makes more sense to
me. I just ask that you keep working on the amendments and keep trying to make
a Bill that we can pass and please, just do not defer two (2) months. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Next speaker is Harvest Edmonds, followed
by Katie Johnson.
HARVEST EDMONDS: Aloha. My name is Harvest Edmonds. Our
island is at risk. Our children, women, and men are at risk from the pesticides
being sprayed on the West Side, the South Side, and the East Side of our island.
The chemical companies say, "We want to be good neighbors," yet the four (4) of
them stand with their arms crossed like this across their chest, defying any request
for cooperation. We need to come to this table as human beings above all else, as
parents, sons, daughters, and grandparents. If we do not, then our humanity is
lost. If we do not, then it becomes the battle it is now between the people whose
humanity is intact and the multi-national faceless chemical corporations, not the
people in the blue shirts, but the companies that they work for. That is who we are
dealing with. These are the same corporations that sue farmers because their
genetically engineered seed has blown into their fields. The same corporations, who
buy their own admission, want to take over the world seed supply, the same
corporations that have been poisoning the Earth and human beings around the
planet for years leaving a path of destruction and diseases behind them. These
chemical companies cannot be trusted to be good neighbors. We have to look
carefully at what they have done and are doing, not what they say they will do. Our
States leadership, by their own public statements currently stands behind these
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 93 OCTOBER 15, 2013
corporations, their practices, and their money. We, and I am talking about the
thousands that have marched, rallied, signed petitions, and slept on the County
Council ground two (2) different nights in desperation to protect what we love, for
ours and future generations. We, the people, do not trust our State government to
do what is right for Kaua`i. Why would we when all we hear is how much the
chemical companies are loves and protected by the States Administration? I
implore you Councilmembers and Council Chair to pass Bill No. 2491 now, tonight.
Do not let another day pass where our children, women, and men are unprotected
as they sit at their desks in school, as they work in the fields, and as they sleep at
night in their beds. I implore you not to defer this Bill while you attempt to
convince the State to do what is right for Kaua`i, for our State, and our planet. Pass
this Bill tonight.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Katie Johnson, followed by Louisa Wooton.
KATIE JOHNSON: Aloha. I am Katie Johnson. I am a mental
health provider and I am here today because I believe I have a professional duty
and moral obligation to speak out, speaking out not only on my own behalf, but on
behalf of the citizens who have shared their stories with me, so I will share them
with you. Like the West Side hunter who has stopped hunting goats in Polihale
because when he and his friends cut open the goats, they are full of tumors; or the
woman who grew up and still lives downwind of the fields, whose mother and sister
have both had cancer, now, she cannot conceive; or the Wilcox Hospital employee
who told me they are seeing rare tumors that they have never ever seen before and
they cannot identify. This cancer cluster is not in Waimea, it is in Hanapepe
Valley. Or the grandma who retired from working in the hotels, who got a
retirement job with one of the seed companies as a Human Scarecrow to help
support her family. She spent a year in that job before she was diagnosed with an
inoperable brain tumor. She is currently at home with her family. They expect her
to die shortly. I received a text this morning in your chambers, a little girl in that
family, two (2) years old. She lives in Kekaha and she was just diagnosed with
Stage 2, kidney cancer. These are the unheard voices. They did not participate in
the Math March. They did not send you testimonies. You would not realize that I
represent them too, not just here for myself. These are the people of Kaua`i, the
people that we stand with. These are the people who live the consequences of
pesticide poisoning every day. You know all of the health effects. I had six (6)
minutes prepared, you know it all and you have been given the studies. I gave you
four (4) pages of peer reviewed studies on the neurological impacts alone. You have
had hundreds of papers submitted to you on other health effects. They are
consistent with our West Side professionals' findings in their practices. I have
heard you dismiss this as anecdotal evidence, but when you do what I do and you
see people through their darkest hours and you hear their pain, you know that their
lives —these are real people. They are not statistics. They matter. It does not
matter that we do not have the measureable data. We need to protect them today.
We need to pass the Bill. You have had enough time and quite frankly, this is not
my job. I have another whole profession and yet here I am. I have done all that
reading that the Mayor did not have time to do. You have had enough time. Any
attempt to defer this Bill will absolutely be seen as an opportunity to kill it. No, we
do not believe that one (1) month would be okay and we frankly, are going to side
with the numerous lawyers who are currently practicing, highly qualified lawyers
that think that we can hold up in court. If we do not, we do not. That is their bully
tactic, but one (1) month is not going to change anything and we will interpret it as
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 94 OCTOBER 15, 2013
a chance to have the State kill the Bill. Absolutely, do they put really important
issue on the bottom of other Bills; that is how they passed the Monsanto Act.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you, Katie.
Ms. Johnson: Pass the Bill today.
Chair Furfaro: Next speaker, please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Next speaker is Louisa Wooton, followed by
Anne Punohu.
LOUISA WOOTON: I am just here to say that I see no logical
reason to defer this Bill for one (1) month, two (2) months. The Bill itself is crafted
as amended by Nadine and JoAnn, and excuse me for using your given names. It
says that it is not going to even take effect for six (6) months; that give the Mayor
plenty of time to get up to speed on making his rules. I think one of the real
strengths of Mayor is his ability to choose really, really intelligent and really, really
quality people and he has chosen one right here. The minute she hits the ground in
one (1) month from now, she is going to be the most knowledgeable person on the
Bill within that cabinet. I mean, she wrote the punctuation. She corrected the
wording. She knows how this Bill can be driven on through. It is a Bill that is going
to give us protections with buffer zones. It is going to give us knowledge,
disclosure— I mean the disclosure that you two (2) ladies came up with is superior.
It is what everyone behind me wants. Why would we want to wait one more month
and hope that the State is going to come in? The State has its job to do and they
can still do their job. They should do their job. I have the Mayor's flowchart here.
Some of the things that he has on his flowchart are the State's jobs. If we do get
some types of pesticide problem, it is not the County that needs to inspect the spray
rigs, that belongs to the State Department of Agriculture. All we need to do is set
up buffer zones. We have and GIS system, we have Google Earth. All we need to do
is get some flags up on the corners of all of these agricultural lots. You can see
them. We will know where those buffer zones begin. We could even ask these folks,
since they are not growing food, to put marker dyes in their spray rigs, then we will
know if they sprayed within those buffer zones. Yes, there are certainly some
wonderful, wonderful tests that we can have done that are not that expensive to
know if we have residue outside those buffer zones or in the buffer zones and it will
not be costly. I just do not think that the mayor is behind. I think he is starting to
think and I think he is really thinking great and we are going to miss you as a
lawmaker. But I mean, let us go forward. We have six (6) months to put this in
effect. Let us not wait for the States. What is the State doing? It is just like
someone before me, Katie just said, they are going to put this at the bottom. It is
going to be hidden. We cannot rely on the State. Chapter 149(A), I cannot
remember you said Mel. Whichever State law it is, it is supposed to do this for us.
They have not been doing it and understand there is even a hiring freeze and they
are telling us they are going to give us more inspectors, not going to be done. Let us
pass the Bill. Let us not defer it. Let us get on with business. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Next speaker, please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Next speaker is Anne Punohu, followed by
Larry Schneider.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 95 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Ms. Punohu: Aloha. My name is Anne Punohu and I am
here to send a very clear message to this Council today. As you can see, the
psychological condition of your people that put you into the chairs that you sit in,
that some of you may not enjoy very much longer unless today you do the will of the
people, are here to tell you that they have now reached their limit. If the will of the
people for our Bill, this is not any of yours Bill. This is the Bill of the people that
has been gutted, that I do not like, but I have to take it as it is for now. That can be
amended back in later. I will tell you today if you did not do the will of the people, I
do not how you are going to look yourselves in the mirror tomorrow. As far as
deferral, it is an absolute "no" to the people. The people will then move into
something else that none of you want to see, which would be an increase in activity
of civil disobedience. We will continue to march, we will continue to fight. We will
occupy offices if we have to, to get our point across. Some of us may even be willing
to take the ultimately sacrifice and be arrested. But I can tell you that today, if you
do not catch on, and that includes my dear Mayor as well, you will not only forfeit
your political careers, but you will forfeit the trust of the people, you will also have a
situation on your hands that all of you want to avoid. I am here today to tell you as
you can see with your own eyes, that the point is now here. We have been to many
meeting, we have been to months and months of this, people have been sleeping on
the ground for God's sakes, people have put their lives on hold. We do not get paid
to do this. We are here for free. That should tell you something. We are the ones of
the biggest voting block that is here, from Kawaihau and Kapa'a all the way to the
North Shore and including the brave West Side residents, we put you in those seats
and we will take you out because we have the votes to do it. If you care about
having a political future, today we are all watching and we are all done. Any of you
who stand in the way of the people today will not see that chair again. Aloha.
Chair Furfaro: Next speaker, please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Next speaker is Larry Schneider, followed by
Felicia Cowden.
LARRY SCHNEIDER: My name is Larry Schneider. Two (2) of the
Councilmembers wrote the Bill in its entirety. Two (2) of the Councilmembers
amended the Bill, took out significant portions and the two (2) who wrote the Bill
are supportive of the two (2) who amended the Bill and another Councilmember was
supportive of it. It seems clear that there is not a significant opposition to the
amended Bill. You hear people, they are scared. Then, the rhetoric that is used is
elevated and exacerbated and it is done on face-value. An interesting thing
happened between that seat and here, and it was called a conversation. I happened
to be sitting next to the Mayor's staff and by elevating the rhetoric and the
emotional intensity in hearing the people and my own personal response, it allowed
me the opportunity to engage in a conversation. I share the same feelings. How
could the Mayor not have read the Bill? How could the Mayor want to veto that? In
a factual way, the Mayor could not have read actual Bill because it was amended
but certainly he knows. But we have not heard the Mayor speak. It is very likely
that he is not going to veto the Bill. We are dealing with companies with
unknowns. We are dealing with significant unknowns. They are testing brand-new
genetic modifications to see how they work in concert with a variety of pesticides,
some safe but some at a nuclear level of pesticide reactivity to see if this genetic
modification can withstand it. It is scares the people to think that they are living
next door, next to the very toxic cancer producing, disease producing affects and
they are entitled to the right to disclose. The reality in conversation, one of the
things that happens in dialogue if you can have intelligent, intellectually honest
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 96 OCTOBER 15, 2013
dialogue, you can disagree but you can come to a consensus to move forward. There
is a consensus that I got. We have not heard the Mayor speak. We are told he is
going to veto it. He may not. Pass the Bill today in its current form, it is going to
take a while to amend it, to get it into action, to figure out how to implement it, so
take that opportunity to fulfill everyone's needs. But take away the fear of the
innocent so that they know that you at least have an interest in working to protect
them. Pass it today and modify it tomorrow.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. JoAnn, you have the floor.
Ms. Yukimura: I just want to really clarify for accuracy sake.
I did not say that he is going to veto it. I said he has the potential under the
Charter process and that has to happen within ten (10) days.
Mr. Schneider: Is that a question that I could respond to?
Chair Furfaro: No, that is a clarification. I do want to say to
you though, Larry, I think at the end of the testimony today I am going to ask the
Mayor to come up so you might be able to hear from him then.
Mr. Schneider: Sometimes unspoken things can elevate
emotions.
Chair Furfaro: Larry, thank you very much.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Next speaker is Felicia Cowen, followed by
Tommy Perreira.
FELICIA COWDEN: Mahalo. My name is Felicia Cowden. Many
strong words have been said today. Very many of them I agree with. The main
ones being pass Bill No. 2491, do not defer it, deferring it will be interpreted, I
think, accurately as a killing of it. I am in agreement that I do not have the full
sense that the Mayor would veto it. I am not saying that you are saying that, but I
do not want to live in fear of that. I think what goes around in all of this is a lot of
fear and a lot of leverage. This is a very modest Bill that is asking for disclosure so
when people in those companies are leveraged by whoever higher up that says, "you
are going to lose your job, your life is going to fall apart," if we have to tell the truth
about what we are doing, if they are not that bad of stuff their businesses are not
going to fall apart, these people are not going to lose their jobs. It is fear that is
going around all of the way. When we say, "Oh, we have to defer because we are
afraid that we will not even get this Bill," I am not afraid. Pass it. I have faith in
you and I have faith in the Mayor and we will do the right thing. I actually have
faith that if these companies are as nontoxic as they are saying they are, well, they
will figure out a way to adapt. They can figure it out and so no more fear, no more
exhaustion. We are being worn out, not saying we cannot keep fighting. But it feels
like part of the strategy is just to string all these moms along, it is dad too and guys
too, but it is a very, very carnal fear of having your own child ruined and it can ruin
any of us. But this is so core, pass it today. Do not defer it. Using your metaphors,
it is like punting a ball to the other team right away. I am in agreement. The State
is not going to help us. Pass the Bill today, no deferral. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Next speaker.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 97 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Next speaker is Tommy Perreira, followed by
Leeona Thompson.
TOMMY PERREIRA: Aloha Councilmembers and Mayor Carvalho.
I just want to let you folks know that in the 1900's there was the Organic Act which
let the Unites States agricultural farmers or whatever you want to call them, come
into Hawai`i and do their thing, but it also states when you are done with your
leases, you will restore and put everything back in proper form. It is a law, we are
talking law here. I am not bickering about no Bills or anything. I am just going to
tell you folks, that is the law. What happened? There are more people coming in
here. They are selling them, now they are bringing in poison, more poison. This
place has been poisoned for one hundred (100) years. They keep breaking laws, you
folks tell your lawyer go look at the Organic Act. Now these people come in, so we
will be here and now we have another problem. I say, we have too much problems
going on there. I say we do this, let the lawful landlords of this place, which is the
Native Hawaiians, and give them back this place. We know how to run it that is
why. We are not going to get this kind of problems with us. We are not going to let
corporate people come in here and destroy our metallic mines and minerals which
they cannot touch and they are touching it. You folks have to understand, metallic
minds and minerals, we are not talking about Bills. I do not care about Bills. My
Bill is, pack it up, get out, and do not come back. Bring back the lawful landlords of
this land, which is the kanakas. That is all that I am going to tell you folks because
we have so much problems all on the walls. We have enough. You folks cannot
control this place. We should be the controllers, we know how. That is all that I am
going to tell you folks. It is not personal. It is nothing personal, but I say we know
how to run our Country. These people from America coming over here in their
corporation, breaking up our families; one is blue, one is red. My cousin is over
there in the blue, my other cousin is in the red. I go, okay, instant poison I call it.
Instant poison. Corporations come down here, I do not care what they spray. As
soon as they touch this land it is poison already because now we have corruption
between each other. That is beyond spraying Atrazine of whatever. It has been
here one hundred (100) years. It is in the ground already. My concern is how much
more is going to come after this. It is just ridiculous. We should not be arguing,
crying, yelling, and screaming. The last thing that I am going to say is the sea is no
longer blue, it is red; watch out. We have five (5) to one (1). I am just going to tell
you folks this, I hope I see you folks in the next election in here. Aloha.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Next speaker is Leeona Thompson, followed
by Michaela Boudreaux.
LEEONA THOMPSON: Hi, I am Leeona Thompson. I am not going
to waste any of your guys' time. We have all been here long enough. I have been
here since 4:00 p.m. yesterday and I am very tired. I just wanted to express my
sincerity to please pass this Bill. It seems like it is very common sense. There are
people in place in the State who need to take care of what they need to take care of
and I understand that, but they need to step it up in my opinion. We need to do
what we need to do right now and take care of our people because this is who is here
right now fighting for this. We feel very strongly about it, obviously. I am not going
to waste any more of your time. Please consider that we are all here fighting for,
again, what we feel is just common sense that it is right. We need to know what is
being sprayed, how much, and if there is any affects. It is not that hard. We can do
this as a community and as all of you guys as leaders, I think it is very possible.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 98 OCTOBER 15, 2013
You are very educated and strong-willed. That is why we voted for you to put you in
your chairs. Please, do not let us down. Make the right choice. Please pass the
Bill.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Next speaker, please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Michaela Boudreaux,
followed by Jeri DiPietro.
MICHAELA BOUDREAUX: Aloha, Council. I sincerely thank you all for
your hard work. I know it has been stressful for everybody. The point that I want
to make today is about this State and how that Legislature... I guess I am
reiterating this, but it is mostly O`ahu people there. They do not really have us in
mind when they are there, so I really feel like we need to protect us. If they come
through, that is fantastic; if they do not, we have to have something in place. I have
been watching this and I have seen them monkey around over there too many
times. There was the taro bill and it got changed in the middle of the night before it
went to vote, and it changed in a one hundred eight (180) degree angle. What
people thought they were voting for was not what they were voting for and it was a
real scramble. When they realized that they were not going to get what they
wanted, they just pulled it. I really feel like we need to have our backs here and
thank the State if they step up, but we really need to do this. Thank you. Aloha.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Next speaker is Jeri DiPietro,
followed by Walter Ritte.
JERI DIPIETRO: Aloha, Jeri DiPietro. Enough already.
These pesticides are linked to kidney disease, miscarriages, asthma, cancer, and
Parkinsons. We all know way too many people. How can we continue to allow the
chemical companies to spray undisclosed chemicals? You have heard from about
one thousand (1,000) people over the last eighty (80) days. For ten (10) years, we
have brought every expert to this island, from Jeffrey Smith to Vandana Shiva;
every book and every movie. For each one of us here, there are hundreds more that
are too shy to come. Folks in Waimea made a video so you could see their story.
Not everybody wants to be in this hot seat. It is a little uncomfortable. We need
disclosure and buffer zones now. Do you know how many people have shared their
hardships with me and with our members of GMO-Free Kaua`i for ten (10) years?
They have no one else to even talk to. They come and ask us what they should do.
Who would even believe that we have these hardships here? The County has been
denied access to these chemical lists. "How many pounds? Where they are
sprayed?" Are you not curious? People are dying. How can you defer a Bill that
you have had a chance to work with and amend? We need to pass this now.
Councilmember Hooser did great work to get some disclosure and it has blown our
minds. It is even more than we even thought. There is already a lawsuit with one
hundred fifty (150) people along the river. There will be more lawsuits. Mothers
are mourning the loss of children that did not make it into birth. This Bill was
crafted with the help of the best lawyers on this subject. It is carefully worded and
it goes after things that we can pass. What more do we need to prove? Just tell us
what is being sprayed already. These companies are just yanking our chain. What
are we waiting for? Normally, you do not allow a violent act to continue while you
explore options. All we want is our right to know and some reasonable setbacks.
We have seen the harm. We spent over eight (8) years going to the State begging
for some crumbs of protection. There is no political will there. In a moment, we will
lose our right for home rule option to ever regulate pesticides. The chemical...
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 99 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me, that was your three (3) minutes.
Ms. DiPietro: Thank you, Chair. Please pass this Bill. We
need the disclosure. Mahalo.
Chair Furfaro: Walter, you are up next.
WALTER RITTE: I know all of you personally already. It has
been great talking story with you guys. I would like to give a view from a far of
what is going on. I know that on Moloka`i, we are suffering the same kinds of
things, but I really have been uplifted by you guys. Just the way you guys operate
and the way you guys took on this thing. There is a lot of hope that Government
can actually work. We spent years at the Legislature and we were getting the
feeling that the Government does not work. The people are getting so frustrated
that they do not want to even vote anymore, so this might be something that is
uplifting for people to get involved. I am sure there will be more people registering
to vote because of this issue and they will be voting because of this issue. The
balance of power is how this democratic process works, so I really think you guys
did your job and your homework, but most importantly, the people did their job. I
have never seen a community, not even on Moloka`i, which we are really proud
when we get active on Moloka`i— but the way the people have responded... I think
they should be given medals for what they have done. The people have done their
job. You guys have done your job. Now it is time to pass the bowl over to the
Mayor. That is the balance of power; that is how this thing works. We should not
be afraid to pass it over to the Mayor. What he does with it is up to him. Whether
he passes it or does not pass it, that is his call. Everybody has done their job. You
guys are looking really good in the State and past the State. The leadership you
guys have over here— everything looks good. Everybody has talked their souls out,
so now it is time to vote. Whether you vote it up or vote it down, it is up to you, but
it is time to vote. The Mayor lucked out because he could have got a good person on
their team. If you guys pass it, nobody is worried about that part. What he is going
to do is what he is going to do. We are here today to tell you that please, enough
talking, traveling, and sleeping in the rain; it is time to vote. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Christi Demuth,
followed by Angela Flynn.
CHRISTI DEMUTH: Aloha, County Council. My name is Christi
Demuth. I am not going to take up much time. I just would like to say that I do not
believe that the Mayor will veto this in the end and I actually believe that there
might be enough votes on this Council today to override a veto from the Mayor
today. If you work on some clarifications and you keep continuing to move forward,
I believe this Bill is a good Bill and it is time to pass it. We are ready for a vote. We
have been doing this for a very long time. I am exhausted. I am not getting paid to
do this. I work full time and do this. Please do not keep dragging this out. That is
the strategy that the companies use to break up a movement by stalling and staling
so that they wear the people down. I am asking you today to move forward, work on
your amendments, and come to a vote. If you vote "no," then you have all voted "no"
and we know. If do not vote "no" and you vote "yes," and the Mayor vetoes, then we
know but at least we know. We have all heard it. We have all heard enough.
Everybody has said everything there is to say here. We know how Mel feels. He is
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 100 OCTOBER 15, 2013
going to vote "no," but that is okay— I am sorry; I did not mean to mention your
name. If the Mayor vetoes, he vetoes, but let us just move forward and come to that
conclusion tonight. Thank you.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Angela Flynn, followed
by Fern Holland.
ANGELA FLYNN: Good afternoon. My name is Angela Flynn.
Boy, this is such a hard thing to bring up what I want to say today but recently, I
went on a tour on the Hindu Temple... new to the island, one of the sights to see. It
is incredible up there. I do not know if you have been up there, but the gardens are
just spectacular. I just have to say that they are using organic methods. I doubt
they are certified, but just for the benefit of some people in here, they might want to
look into this because you do not have to use such terrible toxic pesticides to have
incredible beauty and healthy plants. I happen to be out in the hallway and our
Mayor went out to say some words of comfort to Ruby, and he said something about
how he wants the Bill to be the benefit of all. Well, one of the things with the Hindu
faith is the sense of "karma." Karma is where we create our future by our actions
today. Really, the benefit of all, including to the benefit of the biotech corporations
here on the island is to stop their spraying of pesticides that are hurting people
right this moment. I think back to one of my nephews... three (3) years old— he
used to run into the kitchen and turn on the stove. He was not a bad kid; he just
really did not know that he could potentially hurt someone. Again, with the
Hindus, one of the things I learned is that there is "no bad people," but there are
what they call "lesser evolved spiritually people." In my mind, anyone who can
make a living where that living is actually creating chemicals that are poisoning
children and countless people— I realize that there is a balance they are trying to
reach where they are saying "we are increasing crops, creating better crops, so we
need these pesticides." However, it can be done without that. It really can. Even
the United Nations have come out recently and said that it is not working. We need
to stop this mass poisoning. Maybe the Mayor is going to veto the Bill; maybe the
Mayor is not. Your karma has to be what you do, not what he does. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Fern Holland, followed
by Angela Hughes.
FERN ROSENSTIEL: Hi, County Council. Fern Holland is my
maiden name. My name is Fern Rosenstiel now. My brother wrote my name down.
I just wanted to start by thanking you again. I will try to be brief, but I just wanted
to share one small thing. It has been about one (1) year since I met with
Councilmember Hooser originally— it is just shy of one (1) year since I sat down in
a room in Wailua with a handful of people I grew up with, and asked for help. We
asked to find out what was going on so that we could start to find out if these
rumors that we heard that something might be wrong or if these cancer clusters or
impacts were true, so we asked for information. It has been one (1) year that we
have been waiting and now we have a very basic Bill on the table, we feel. I am in
support of a very strong Bill. I think this is just the beginning where we find what
is going on and we find out the data that we really need to make the right decisions
to make proper management decisions. We cannot do that without good
information and buffer zones, which are a little to ask, and an EIS. I want to be
clear that these things are pretty basic and we are just asking for the right to know
after one (1) year. Please do not defer it too much longer, if any longer at all. We
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 101 OCTOBER 15, 2013
are asking that if there is some reason, if there is some major legal thing that we do
not know about that happened in Executive Session that needs to be changed, bring
it forward. Let us make whatever changes that need to happen immediately in
order to pass the Bill that will get us immediate knowledge as soon as possible, not
six (6) more months, not one (1) year, not into Legislative Session. Please pass the
Bill. Thank you very much for your time.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Angela Hughes, followed
by Mimsy Bouret.
Chair Furfaro: Angela is not present at the moment. Next
speaker, please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Mimsy Bouret, followed
by Collin Dana.
MIMSY BOURET: Hi, Councilmembers and Mayor. My name is
Mimsy Bouret. I am not going to take any time. I wrote three (3) pages of my
heart. This has been an emotional afternoon. I have been moved to tears a few
times. I have been a resident and a voter here since 1978. I think you are an
amazingly strong group. I think we are really lucky. As someone said, two (2) of
you crafted the Bill and two (2) of you amended the Bill. Enough of you are in
support of this Bill. You have heard the testimony. You do not have to hear
anything more. I have not spoken yet on this but I have shown up at every meeting
and at the end, I think what more could I possibly say that has not been said? You
know it; you have heard it; you see it. You know what the right thing to do is. Our
Mayor— I know he knows more than he says. He keeps saying that "I want to
learn." He has learned a lot and he is ready to step up. Nadine is not in the room
right now, but I want to say that I have great confidence that with her in his Office,
this thing if passed, will move forward. It will get corrected and it will get
strengthened, but it will give hope to not just the people of this island, but the
people of this entire State. They are all watching what is going on here. Everybody
is watching. There is a right move and now is the right time. Call me an optimist—
I think you are going to do it and I am very excited. Thank you and aloha.
Chair Furfaro: Next speaker, please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Collin Dana, followed by Brandi Titus.
COLLIN DANA: I do not want to take too much of your time.
We are all here to see this Bill passed and let us get on with it.
Chair Furfaro: You need to introduce yourself, please.
Mr. Dana: My name is Collin Dana. Deferral is not an
option. That is not what we are here for. We just did not spend hours and hours
sleeping and waiting out there so we could see this thing deferred. There is a
freight train coming and if the Mayor wants to step in front of it then that is his
funeral. Your job is to take the mandate you have been given and pass this Bill. In
the Civil Rights Movement, African-Americans were told that they just needed to
"wait, calm down, and cool their heels. Politics would finally, in the end, maybe
work things out and everybody would be happy." I would like to share a little poem
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 102 OCTOBER 15, 2013
about deferral by Langston Hughes: "What happens to a dream deferred? Does it
dry up like a raisin in the sun? Fester like a sore and then run? Does it stink like
rotten meat or crust over like a sugary sweet? Maybe it just sags like a heavy load.
Or does it explode?"
Chair Furfaro: Next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Brandi Titus, followed
by Victoria Holloway.
BRANDI TITUS: Aloha, Council. My name is Brandi Titus. I
am going to be brief. It has been really difficult for me to sit here today and listen
to all of these emotions. I am one of the mothers that everyone is talking about
here. I never knew when I moved to Hanapepe eleven (11) years ago that I was
moving into a community that was inundated by these fields. I had no idea. I lay
awake at night thinking about that dust and thinking about how that was a very
important time in my life because I carried my son when I lived there. I lay awake
at night and think about that dust... I never considered if there was an
experimental combination of pesticides, restricted use pesticides, or experimental
genetically modified pollen; and I had every right to... we needed this thirteen (13)
years ago. What are we waiting for? Pass the Bill. Enough poison. Enough. My
stepdad was a pesticide sprayer on a golf course and he died of kidney cancer. We
do not have to wait for the studies. This is hurting us. Pest control has everything
to do with hormone interruption. I know this. I work in agriculture. I have been
coming here and talking to you about the experimental pollen trying to get you to
see how exposed our agricultural community is here. This is not okay. What is
stopping from selling corn that has been cross-pollinated with this stuff at our
markets? This is serious. This is really, really serious. Please, we needed this a
long time ago. No mother should have to go through looking at her child, wondering
if they are okay, and waiting to see if they are going to be able to have children. I
had already been through enough as a kid, apparently growing up in a house with a
pesticide sprayer. Look at how much I have learned by coming here. I never knew
to identify myself as such until I came and listened to the expert testimony at the
first Committee Meeting. I never knew the children of pesticide sprayers were at
greatest risk in the Country. I never knew to identify myself as such. To move
here— what an opportunity for a girl from Indiana to get a job in Hanapepe, in an
art studio of all things. I had no idea that this was going on here and I had a right
to. Please, we need movement on this. Malama keiki, aloha aina.
Chair Furfaro: Next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Our next speaker is Victoria Holloway,
followed by Ray Songtree.
VICTORIA HOLLOWAY: Aloha, Councilmembers and Council Chair.
My name is Victoria Holloway. I took off work today to implore you to please pass
this Bill. It is surely hard for me to speak in public. I just want to name that. I
implore you to pass this Bill today and Mayor, I implore you to support the decision
of our Councilmembers. I will be brief. I would like to get to the point where you
get to vote "yes." Please take a moment to look up at that County Seal everybody.
That struck me real deeply when I came in the room today. For me, that is what
this Bill is really all about. It is about a sustainable past that sustains thousands of
people on these islands, including this island of Kaua`i for thousands of years that
could become our sustainable future if you take a stand today. When I look at that
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 103 OCTOBER 15, 2013
seal, I feel good; pono; right and that is why I live Kaua`i. If I looked at that seal,
and instead of those three (3) pictures, there was a picture of a giant pesticide
spraying truck, a picture of deformed babies, and another picture of some
transgenetically mutated plants in a dust bowl; I would not feel good and that
would not be pono, but that could be the alternative seal if we keep going without
passing this Bill. You have a historic opportunity to pass the Bill today towards
keeping the integrity of that seal and to keep it pono. Please do so. Please do not
defer and pass the Bill. Mahalo.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Ray Songtree, followed by Ned Whitlock.
RAY SONGTREE: Good afternoon, Ray Songtree. I am very
humbled by everyone's talk here that I can hardly talk. Where I was taking you the
last time I spoke was that in 2009, we had a Swine Flu that was an international
scandal. It involved all of our Government agencies. Where I was going with that
was that we can no longer trust the system. Where does that lead us? There is a
quote by George Orwell— I cannot talk... he said, "In a time of universal deceit,
speaking the truth is a revolutionary act." I think we are kind of there now. I am
encouraging you all to see yourselves not as in a place in a hierarchy of
Government, but as spiritual elders, which we are elders now, that where is your
community going to look to for the truth? We are looking to you. I think everyone,
not just you, all need to ask ourselves, "Am I enabling the truth in my life or I am
taking part in a big scandal?" I am going to go to another point. This threat of
being sued by these companies— I would not worry about that. If they do it, it will
be the greatest PR mistake they ever made because everyone is watching. Kaua`i is
in the Huffington Post and New York Times. Everyone is watching. The Frontline
is coming here to do a piece. If they sue for the right to poison people here, what is
going to happen to them? Do not worry about that. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you, Ray. Next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Ned Whitlock, followed
by Astrid Drolson.
NED WHITLOCK: Good afternoon, Council. This is Ned
Whitlock, Mo loa'a farmer. From the data I have seen as far as what has come out of
the lawsuit in Waimea, the most heavily used are the synthetic pyreththroids.
There are probably about five (5) different kinds that I have seen like Mustang,
Baythroid, Permethrin, and a couple of others. All of these have a tendency to be
endocrine disruptors, which I hope you all understand by now. The effect of
hormonal system in mammals... and from the moment of conception to the full
formed fetus is the most susceptible time for neurologically and sexual organ
damage, and we are talking about parts per billion here. You are having a foreign
particle taking the place of what a naturally produced hormone is doing. It is
interrupting and it is getting in the way with consequences. For example, we are
talking about Baythroid. Let us just go with that one. At one millionth of a gram,
you kill half the bee population and it is even more toxic the day after. There is no
way those bees are going to avoid that field. They can be spraying at night, but
they are still dying. Water fleas die in parts per trillion. Fish species mortality is
at parts per billion and it bioaccumulates up to eight hundred (800) times. This is
serious stuff and it is happening in our communities. What woman knows that she
is not pregnant before taking a test or something like that and exposing her fetus to
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 104 OCTOBER 15, 2013
this danger? You have got to know this stuff. We cannot put it down the road and
let somebody else try to figure it out. It is here and now. It is time to vote for this
Bill and protect your people. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you, Ned. Next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Astrid Drolson, followed
by Blake Drolson.
ASTRID DROLSON: Aloha, I am Astrid Drolson. I thank you all
for taking this on. I think we all have the right to know and I want to ask every one
of you to best work your amendments today and pass this Bill. We have the right to
know. At this point, Kaua`i residents have no choice than to deal with what they
are exposed to. They can look at the dust and they can just guess. Mothers have
birth defects and problems... not everybody, of course, but some. I just cannot
imagine this burden as a mom. It is so hard. We need to start to investigate now
and show respect to those people who suffer everyday not knowing what is on their
windowsills or if the baby will come out right like having a pregnancy and
wondering because you did not know before. It is just horrible. We need to take
this into our own hands because I do not have the trust in the State at this point.
You all can make a difference for the whole world. This is a big moment for all of
us. Please, pass the Bill today. We have so many talented people in this
community. We will figure this out. From this whole process, I experienced a union
from people, not a separation, and so many talented people have come up. I am
being part of this helping... my husband has been in GMO-Free Kaua`i for six (6)
years and now we have all of these talented people in place, and meeting more and
more. We can do this. You guys can do this and the Mayor can do it, as well. I
hope we are all going to be an example for this world. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Blake Drolson, followed
by Susan Tai Kaneko.
BLAKE DROLSON: Aloha, Councilmembers. Thank you for
being here. My name is Blake Drolson. I am a founding member of GMO-Free
Kaua`i. I have been doing that work for eleven (11) years as a volunteer citizen
activist. I remember early on many years ago, I asked Mina Morita at an open
Government session... I think I asked her, "We share these same concerns. What
can we do to create change?" She said very clear to me, "Create a movement." I
think by the luck of the gods, we have created a movement. We have a movement.
We had four thousand (4,000) people show up outside. Honestly, until this started
to happen and until this Bill has come forward, I felt we have been ignored. We
have been talking about the dangers of these chemicals and the dangers of these
crops, and I felt we have not received any sort of acknowledgment of those dangers
until this whole process has come about. I am thankful for this process because I
think it has released a lot of good information. We strongly support this Bill and so
when we see that the Governor meets with everybody except the stakeholders of the
Bill and the proponents of the Bill, we feel ignored again. When the Mayor meets
with everybody except the stakeholders of the Bill and the proponents of the Bill, we
feel ignored again. This movement is not going to stop and it is not going to stop
with this Bill. It is going to continue on and I think there is enough information
now that people are concerned. People know that their kids are in trouble, birth
defects are coming, death, cancer, and all of this stuff. We want to see our
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 105 OCTOBER 15, 2013
community and children safe. I think this Bill is a step in the right direction to
make sure that we keep our children and our community safe. We do not need any
more political games like the deferral from the Governor and asking for voluntary
disclosure seemed like a political game. The deferral for two (2) months also seems
like a political game. A deferral for one more month— it honestly seems like a
political game. It may be the right thing to do, but all I can say that we are
continue on as a movement until we get the island safe and get what we want. I
feel that there is a wave coming. I would rather campaign for you in the next
election than against you. I hope will you vote for the Bill without a deferral. I feel
that if you vote for a deferral, the Bill gets killed, and we get preempted by the
State like what just happened in Oregon a couple of days ago, that we are going to
hold that vote for a deferral against you. I do not know how much power we have
honestly, but we will find out. Like I say, I would rather campaign for you than
against you. Please pass the Bill today without deferral. Please keep our
community safe and take our concerns into hand. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Mr. Bynum, do you have a
question?
Mr. Bynum: Blake, I want to thank you for being here
and I want to thank you for your patience with me for the last ten (10) years.
Mr. Drolson: Thank you, Tim.
Mr. Bynum: I do not think I ignored you, but I did not pay
close enough attention and I apologize for that.
Mr. Drolson: Maybe I was a little strong. I do not know if
I felt ignored, maybe nobody knew what was happening and maybe there was an
education level that had to come out of this whole process.
Mr. Bynum: I do not need you to comment. I just want to
say that I did not pay close enough attention. I know that now and I apologize. I
admire you and Jeri for your steadfastness, patience, and your demeanor which is
always calm and respectful. It is very much appreciated. I do have questions. I
have heard from testifiers today that they will work with the Council on these
issues and that you are not going to go away. For me, that warms my heart. I get
really excited to see the community engaged on any political issue. In the not too
distant future, there will be other items on the Council agenda related to all of this
discussion. There will be discussions about the National Resource Conservation
Service and how that system seems to me to have broken down. Will you be there
for those discussions as well?
Mr. Drolson: I would like to be as much as I can.
Mr. Bynum: Okay. There will be discussions about the
economic impact about the changes that have happened on Kaua`i and how it
impacts the people here, what taxes they pay, and who pays what. Will you be here
and engaged for those discussions?
Mr. Drolson: I would like to. I honestly have to say that I
do have a full time job and a family to support, so I cannot come out for everything.
I wish I could.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 106 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Mr. Bynum: This is for everyone that testified today.
Please stay engaged. These are complex issues. This Bill is critical and important,
but there are many issues related to sustainability, health and safety, and economic
impacts of the changes that have happened on Kaua`i over the next six (6), eight (8),
or ten (10) months. I want that to be positive and good for our community and I
need your involvement for that outcome.
Mr. Drolson: May I answer?
Chair Furfaro: No, you may not because he did not pose a
question to you.
Mr. Bynum: I have asked the questions and you answered
so pau for now. Thank you, Blake.
Mr. Drolson: You are welcome.
Chair Furfaro: Next speaker, please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Susan Tai Kaneko, followed by Kirby Kester.
SUSAN TAI KANEKO: Aloha, Council Chair, Vice Chair, and
Councilmembers. My name is Susan Tai Kaneko and I oppose Bill No. 2491. It has
been about three and a half (3.5) months since this Bill was introduced during
which our community has been torn apart. I believe division lines have been drawn
and aloha is going out the window between the insults, discrimination, vandalism,
and death threats. If many of the supporters of Bill No. 2491 had their way,
collaboration and coexistence would not be possible, and agricultural sector would
be damaged possibly beyond repair for years on Kaua`i. The merits of science and
facts have been traded for sensationalism and dramatic effect. The conflict itself
has now taken center stage, overshadowing the real issues at hand. I applaud the
Governor, Mayor Carvalho, our State Legislators, and many of our Councilmembers
for expressing their concerns with the Bill, despite an often hostile and vocal
minority pressuring them do to otherwise. As you can see, that is why many of us
today are back in our regular clothes. It is no longer about blue and red. It is about
supporting what is right and bringing us back to normal. In previous projects that I
have had the honor of working on with this Council's input, I respected the level of
inquiry, the insistence for due diligence, and the expectation for collaboration and
partnership that leveraged what are already limited resources for a small island
community, but I also appreciated the implicit rule to operate with aloha.
Regardless of GMOs, pesticides, or any other topic, we cannot become a society
which endorses "might makes right" where we give credence to the loudest voice
rather than the voice of reason, where citizens are allowed to threaten violence and
other measures if local government does not cave in to their demands. That is not
the Kaua`i way. But it is not too late. I applaud our Mayor and his Administration
for requesting a deferral in order to work hard with the State Departments and
with the Governor's Office and to bring together all the relevant parties to work
together. The Mayor is not supporting the seed industry or Kaua`i Coffee, nor is he
backpedaling to support the biotech industry; he is merely supporting what is right
and what this body has always valued— proper due diligence and input from the
communities and parties involved. You cannot go wrong when you favor balance in
place of bullying, reason rather than rhetoric, and evidence instead of anecdote.
Henry Ford once said, "Coming together is a beginning, keeping together is
progress, and working together is success." The secret is to gang up on the problem,
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 107 OCTOBER 15, 2013
rather than on each other. I respectfully ask to you take the Mayor up on his
request for a deferral that will help refocus our community back as one towards
reasonable and workable solutions. Mahalo for your time.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Mr. Hooser.
Mr. Hooser: Susan, which company do you work for?
Ms. Tai Kaneko: I work for Syngenta.
Mr. Hooser: How long have you been with them?
Ms. Tai Kaneko: About two and a half(2.5) months.
Mr. Hooser: Okay. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Kirby Kester, followed by Peter Wiederoder.
KIRBY KESTER: Aloha. My name is Kirby Kester and I work
for BASF. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. Just coming back to a
couple of basic points of Bill as originally addressing public health concerns on the
west side. I guess it has been stated some way that the legal right of the Bill or the
County is based on the right of the County to protection health. I truly feel bad for
anyone with health issues near the communities where we farm, but the testimony
that I have heard during the process of this Bill is not factually or scientifically
linked to issues of our practices. Can you honestly say that without a doubt that
any of the accusations brought up here are fact? Facts strong enough to cause
hardship to our industry? Strong enough to stand up to scientific consensus? Facts
strong enough to discriminate against our industry? I do not see how you can pass
any legislation without good data. Would it not be wiser to collect data and proof
before making any harsh decisions on this Bill? Also, I hear a lot of"why did we not
give up all the pesticide information that we have been asked for?" I think with all
due respect, Councilmember Bynum and Councilmember Hooser, kind of helped to
answer that this morning in the discussion about releasing legal opinions. They
both said that the seed companies have threatened to sue us, meaning the Council.
So why would we just hand over information to someone who has threatened us?
Interesting enough, the introducers of this Bill have been threatening us and our
operations for years. Why would we just hand over information to someone who we
believe would like to cause us harm? If you can understand the position of the
Council this morning as to why not to share a legal opinion, then why can you not
understand our resistance to disclose? Are we to be held by different standards?
Can you sense any hypocrisy in this process? I do support the Mayor's idea for a
deferral on this Bill. I think we need more time to figure out how we can best
address the community's concerns. We all agree that needs to happen. It is a
matter of how and I just urge you not to rush into quick decisions without good
information. Thank you for your time.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Mr. Bynum, you have the floor.
Mr. Bynum: Hi, Kirby. You just said that the introducers
of the Bill have been trying to hurt your industry for years. What have I done prior
to this Bill that you think was designed to hurt your industry?
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 108 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Mr. Kester: I am speaking more as a whole about the
crafters and...
Mr. Bynum: You said "the introducers of this Bill"... we
could read it back maybe.
Mr. Kester: Sure.
Mr. Bynum: I just want to know what you think I did
prior to this Bill that was designed to hurt your industry.
Mr. Kester: I take that stance off of past positions on
issues against our industry or not.
Mr. Bynum: Can you be specific, please?
Mr. Kester: No, I cannot to you, Tim.
Mr. Bynum: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Nadine, you have the floor.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you, Kirby, for being here. I have a
question relating to your work now with the Governor and the Department of
Agriculture to undertake some voluntary measures.
Mr. Kester: Yes.
Ms. Nakamura: Are you able to describe where you are
heading with that?
Mr. Kester: With most of the measures like disclosure
and buffer zones, I do not think there is as much concern from the industry on a
voluntary measure. It is more about from the "good neighbor principle." If someone
has concerns that lives or resides right next to our farms, we would like to work
that out with those people. It is different when you impose legislation that would
cover and span across the whole island for all the people who have different, in my
opinion, reasons for the information. If you are a neighbor who is concerned, that is
totally different than what goes out widely distributed. I do not think there is
nearly as much concern with working with people, and especially about addressing
the concerns in the community about health issues related to pesticides and dust.
We would like to get to the bottom of that as well. The last thing we want is the
citizens in our communities being scared of what we do. I have said that a couple of
times here.
Ms. Nakamura: Do you see in your discussions with the
Department of Agriculture that you are moving along in alignment with the floor
amendment or is it going in a different direction? Or is it just doing a portion of
what is in this floor amendment?
Mr. Kester: I have not talked to them yet. We meet with
some of them tomorrow actually, so I do not know what exactly is on the table thus
far. Some of the language that I have seen that the Governor has proposed and the
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 109 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Mayor has brought up I think is viewed very favorably by our industry and we look
forward to that route and that dialogue.
Ms. Nakamura: Is it your understanding that just looking at
some correspondence back and forth that you plan to put something in place by the
end of the month?
Mr. Kester: In place in regards to?
Ms. Nakamura: Disclosure and buffer zones.
Mr. Kester: If things move well, I do not see a problem. I
honestly have not been privy to the proposal thus far along, but I know conceptually
that what has been presented, I think, has been viewed very favorably. I do not
know if anyone else would be more knowledgeable.
Ms. Nakamura: I will ask others if they do testify.
Mr. Kester: Okay.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: JoAnn, did you have a question?
Ms. Yukimura: Kirby, thank you for being here. You
mentioned in your testimony that you would like to get to the bottom of some of
these questions about cause and effect.
Mr. Kester: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: Do you support the EPHIS or the
Environmental Public Health Impacts Study that is on the agenda separately as a
Resolution, but also mentioned in the amended Bill?
Mr. Kester: Yes. I think that is something that we could
grasp onto, if done properly in a way to answer the questions and address the
public's concerns.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. The system that you are talking
about where seed companies work out things with people who live in the area
sounds reasonable, except that in past history, there has not always been this
responsiveness, which is part of the reason why I believe this Bill has been
introduced. I think I see a lot of shift in awareness on the part of the companies, so
even this Bill itself does not have a full process for complaints to be dealt with in a
clear method. Right now, the only real procedural complaint system is the
Department of Agriculture's system.
Mr. Kester: Right.
Ms. Yukimura: As I followed at least one complaint, it had
some very responsible operations. The inspectors have worked very responsibly on
this one complaint that I looked at, and very professionally, but there were also
some gaps. I want to say that the reports from citizens who have told me about
pesticide drift getting into their homes have come back now and said it has stopped.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 110 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Those are all good signs, but a voluntary system worries me because what if it
starts again? What leverage do we have?
Mr. Kester: Right.
Ms. Yukimura: I am just putting this out as a question in
terms of if the seed companies, whether you are working with the Governor or with '
us on the amendments, come forward with a comprehensive or a good system of
complaint processing— that would be helpful. I do not know if you have any
comments about that.
Mr. Kester: I agree. The main thing that I am concerned
about with complaints or with predisclosure is harassment— the fear of
harassments of frivolous or made-up complaints and the abundance of that. That is
the main thing that we fear. There have been numerous examples of them already
or taking of what we say or do out of context and being twisted and turned, so that
needs to be addressed. That is real as evidence and something that would have to
be addressed in whatever system there was to put in place.
Ms. Yukimura: Are you comfortable in sharing with us some
of the examples of the harassment? You can say "yes" or "no."
Mr. Kester: Sure. There was a complaint a couple of
weeks ago that somebody driving down Ahukini got pesticide poisoning in the
vehicle and alleged towards the company that was not even having any sprayers
operating that day.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Thank you very much.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Hooser, did you have a question?
Mr. Hooser: Mr. Bynum can go first.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Mr. Bynum, you have the floor, but
before you do, let me make an announcement for anybody so that there is no
confusion. People who have wristbands and are not in the Chambers, if you do not
come back into the building, I am going to begin assigning those seats out. You
have the floor. Thank you, Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: Kirby, I appreciate you being here and I do
not want to be argumentative, but you are saying things that I need to understand
better. Who are you meeting with tomorrow about these voluntary plans?
Mr. Kester: We are meeting with some of the
Department of Ag folks.
Mr. Bynum: Okay. Have you met with our Legislators?
Mr. Kester: No.
Mr. Bynum: Have you met with our Mayor about these
voluntary measures?
Mr. Kester: Not in detail.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 111 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Mr. Bynum: You said there was language from the
Governor. Is there written language that we can see?
Mr. Kester: Just what is in the paper, in the press
release.
Mr. Bynum: Councilmembers just say, "We heard you
may have this done by next month." I wonder who is working on this voluntary
stuff. Why does some Councilmembers know about it and others do not? We are all
concerned about transparency. I will go by the only thing I have seen in writing,
which was a press release from the Governor. The press release said "aggregate."
What does the word "aggregate" mean?
Mr. Kester: I believe it means "combined together."
Mr. Bynum: Right. He is not calling for specific disclose,
he is calling for aggregate disclosure. Correct?
Mr. Kester: That could be. That is one word that I have
heard used.
Mr. Bynum: That word was a red flag for me. The
absence of some key words from the Governor's statement was a problem for me,
primarily being "home/dwelling." He said, "Let us establish buffers between schools
and hospitals," but he left out where we live and the parks. I am concerned about
an effort that you are involved in, involving some members of the County, but not
others, to do something that might be disclosed... can you understand my concerns,
Kirby?
Mr. Kester: Sure, I do.
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me, Mr. Bynum. Did you pose that
as a question at the end?
Mr. Bynum: I did.
Chair Furfaro: Very good. Thank you.
Mr. Kester: I think that even gives more reason to go for
some more time for a deferral to work some of these details out.
Mr. Bynum: I will close with this question. We met, you
saw my presentations, and I have been on your property. The buffer zones, even the
way I proposed them, have pretty minimal impact on your usable land. Do you
agree with that?
Mr. Kester: No.
Mr. Bynum: We will save the rest of the discussion for
later. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Are there any more questions for the
testifier? Nadine, you have the floor.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 112 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Ms. Nakamura: Just to follow-up on Councilmember's
Bynum. How would the buffer zones impact your lands as proposed in the current
floor amendment?
Mr. Kester: What is the current provision from roads?
One hundred (100) feet?
Ms. Nakamura: Five hundred (500) feet.
Mr. Kester: Five hundred (500) feet from public roads
would take out...
Ms. Nakamura: No, from schools and hospitals.
Mr. Kester: BASF does not have any land leased next to
any communities, so we would be most heavily impacted by anything next to roads.
All of that productive land would basically go and be useless.
Chair Furfaro: First of all, there is a correction. The road is
one hundred (100) feet in the Bill, not five hundred (500) feet. I just want to make
sure we are all talking about what is in the amendment. It is one hundred (100)
feet.
Ms. Nakamura: Does those one hundred (100) feet from the
public roads affect your land?
Mr. Kester: Yes, it cuts in about one hundred (100) feet
into our field, all along Polihale road and some along the highway out by the shrimp
farm.
Ms. Nakamura: How many acres would be unusable?
Mr. Kester: Probably a couple hundred with some quick
math.
Ms. Yukimura: What was it, Kirby?
Mr. Kester: I said probably a couple hundred, like two
hundred (200).
Ms. Yukimura: Two hundred (200)?
Mr. Kester: Acres.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Mr. Hooser has the floor.
Mr. Hooser: The more we talk, the more confused I get,
and the issue becomes more confusing. At Polihale and where you plant along the
road, you plant with no buffer at all, right up to the State land. Is that correct?
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 113 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Mr. Kester: We have a fence about twenty (20) feet off
the ditch and we can plant right up to the fence if we need to.
Mr. Hooser: You said it would take one hundred (100)
feet out, but it would not take out one hundred (100) feet; it would take out eighty
(80) feet because you have twenty (20) feet?
Mr. Kester: Sure.
Mr. Hooser: I am just trying to get clear. If you are
planting up all the way up against the pavement, I need to know that because we
are trying to figure out the impacts.
Mr. Kester: We have some buffer already in place. There
is a road, the ditch, and then we have a twenty (20) feet voluntary like that we have
done already to do a grass cover crop.
Mr. Hooser: So twenty (20) feet of ditch and another
twenty (20) feet of buffer, so really we are only impacting sixty (60) feet.
Mr. Kester: No, it is twenty (20) feet for the ditch and
then...
Mr. Hooser: Right. So when you say that we are taking
one hundred (100) feet away, we are not taking one hundred (100) feet away
according to your math; we are taking about sixty (60) feet away. Is that fair?
Mr. Kester: Yes. In our case, sure.
Mr. Hooser: I am just trying to get clear. We are trying
to do our job here and understand the impacts on the industry, as well as the
impacts on the community obviously. I think you mentioned that you are okay with
the Governor's disclosure initiative. Is that correct?
Mr. Kester: Voluntary.
Mr. Hooser: You are okay with voluntarily doing it, but
not being made to do it? The information would be the same, do you think? Would
the community get the same information whether it is voluntary or by ordinance?
Mr. Kester: I am not sure. It might be very similar.
That has not been presented in detail to me.
Mr. Hooser: I am just saying if it is the same... anyway,
my understanding of the Governor's proposal, not only is it aggregate, it only affects
restricted use pesticides. Are you willing to disclose general use pesticides, which is
seventy-five percent (75%) and many would say is what you use?
Mr. Kester: I cannot answer that because those
conversations have not been posed to us yet.
Mr. Hooser: Okay. You have mentioned that you are
willing to accept buffer zones that the Governor has proposed. What about the
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 114 OCTOBER 15, 2013
buffer zones in the Bill right now? We talked about the roads. What about five
hundred (500) feet from schools? Are you okay with that?
Mr. Kester: The fundamental difference between it being
law or voluntary because what happens in here, if it is law, it has ramifications
much wider than just Kaua`i that our companies are interested in as well.
Mr. Hooser: What kind of ramifications are those?
Mr. Kester: Of being adopted in other Counties and
States.
Mr. Hooser: So you are concerned that other Counties
would also want to protect their schools?
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me, Mr. Hooser. I want to make sure
that the audience understands that I am very serious about the decorum in this
room, especially as being the Chair. You have the floor, Mr. Hooser. You can
continue.
Mr. Hooser: Thank you. I will try not to be facetious, but
it is what it is. We want to protect our schools and if other communities want to
protect their schools, I believe that they are entitled to do that.
Mr. Kester: We want the schools and the communities to
be protected as well. We do not believe we are doing any harm. We do not believe
that the evidence presented has clearly demonstrated that we have created harm,
therefore, for this to take effect as law when there has not been harm, it is
unsettling. It is not something that we can jump behind. It is like finding someone
guilty before having enough evidence.
Mr. Hooser: Believe me, I understand the companies'
reluctance to embrace the regulation, but I believe this is a modest attempt. It is a
little disconcerting when on the one hand, you say and the industry says that we
are willing to accept the Governor's voluntary this and that, and then you are not
willing to be forthcoming when dealing this Council. Thank you. Thank you, Chair.
Chair Furfaro: I have a housekeeping item here. We have
about thirteen (13) more speakers and I announced several times when there was
time to sign up. I want to get through the thirteen (13) speakers and I want to keep
the Mayor for the last speaker. We also need to take a caption break in about thirty
(30) minutes. Are there any more questions for Kirby?
Ms. Yukimura: Kirby, this may be more a question for your
lawyer than yourself, but is the fear not that if jurisdiction is established, that the
County has jurisdiction to pass pesticide laws, that there may be two (2) sets of laws
and that sometimes if we do not have a Council as judicious as this one, I will say,
that it could get really crazy in terms of the regulations. Is that not part of the fear
of accepting jurisdiction or legal regulation?
Mr. Kester: That probably would be a better question for
them. I would assume so. Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 115 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Mr. Bynum: I just want to keep following up on this,
because it is important. I have spent hundreds and hundreds of hours looking at
aerial maps of Kaua`i with measurements. At one hundred (100) feet, there is
almost no impact on growing plants anywhere on the island because of what you
just said. There is a boundary of roadway and property lines. Then there is some
kind of transition, usually a fence line or a road. Almost nowhere does the planting
start within one hundred (100) feet. Would you agree with that?
Mr. Kester: Tim, it is less about the distance than it is
the principle.
Mr. Bynum: No, I understand that.
Mr. Kester: If I sit here and agree to buffers, then that is
admitting... and while we are following all the laws about current pesticide laws
and regulations brought up by EPA and USDA, we are following all the laws very
well. For me to just agree to that right now would be admitting that we are
breaking laws or causing harm. It has not been clearly demonstrated yet.
Mr. Bynum: I will just disagree. Agreeing would be just
accommodating the desires of the community. You could frame it that way, too.
The point I am making is that I showed you on your property... I had an
amendment, five hundred (500) feet from the roadway unless you tell us
twenty-four (24) hours in advance, and then no buffer. If the Bill passed that way,
you would have no buffer on your land; none; zero. It would impact your operations
because you could not spray two hundred forty (240) times a year within five
hundred (500) feet, right? You do agree with me that if there was notification on
Polihale road, which impacts your operations on both sides, right?
Mr. Kester: Just one side.
Mr. Bynum: On the mauka side. If there was no buffer
because you notified, how would that impact your operations?
Mr. Kester: I am sorry, can you reword that.
Mr. Bynum: If there was no buffer and if you had to give
twenty-four (24) hour notification and then you could spray with no buffer; how
would that impact your operations?
Mr. Kester: Again, it comes back to the principle.
Mr. Bynum: Okay. I very much appreciate you saying
that because I believe if you and I had to work this out, we would do it in about
forty-five (45) minutes. I answer to a higher power; they are sitting outside and in
the audience. You answer to a bigger power, which are your corporate interests and
they are not going to let you make decisions here on Kaua`i that impact other
communities. Is that correct? That is just what you testified to.
Mr. Kester: We also answer to the community. Most of
our employees come from that very community that you are talking about.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 116 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Mr. Bynum: Right. I understand. I will close with this
question. I have asked this question for years now. Are you aware of any study
done by anyone that addresses the impact of research agricultural processes that
some companies are employing here, spraying up to two hundred forty (240) times
in one (1) year, on one field, in very high quantities? Has anybody ever studied how
that research practice impact the community?
Mr. Kester: I would say that the places where these
studies where pesticides are tested before getting granting their label would be best
people to ask because they do routine sprays of experimental pesticides on a daily
basis. That would be the best place to get that.
Mr. Bynum: I really close with this, Kirby. The answer I
have gotten from everyone is that no one has ever studied it. The studies all
assume and your labels all assume that this use is for production agriculture.
Nobody even contemplated in those rules and regulations multiple sprayings on one
field two hundred forty (240) times a year. If anybody who has ever studied that,
please tell me. The EPA said no. Everybody said no. I believe I said that you guys
follow the rules. The rules are met for production Ag, not for what you guys are
doing.
Mr. Kester: I just...
Mr. Bynum: Okay, I am rambling on so I will shut up.
Thank you, Kirby, for being here.
Chair Furfaro: Kirby, thank you for being here but we have
one more question from Councilwoman Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: I just want to ask about the premise of
Councilmember Bynum's statement. Do you spray two hundred forty (240) times a
year or even one hundred (100) times a year on the same ground?
Mr. Kester: No.
Ms. Yukimura: The field is big and I have heard you might
spray in different parts of the field. Do you spray... let us be conservative, one
hundred (100) times a year on the same land area?
Mr. Kester: No, because we only plant one (1) crop per
piece of land area, per year. Whatever that crop requires for pest control will
receive those applications, and then that crop usually will go into a voluntary
period, then fallow, might get a cover crop, and then the next year plant it back.
Ms. Yukimura: If you spray enough for one (1) crop a year
and it follows the crop cycle, is that anymore than a farmer would spray in
production Ag for a crop cycle?
Mr. Kester: No, the difference is that they would plant
the whole field solid.
Ms. Yukimura: Right, but for a given area, would you be
spraying more in a given area if it is for one (1) crop cycle?
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 117 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Mr. Kester: No, because we are in a tropical
environment. There are a lot of pests here, so there is more pest pressure here than
in the "corn belt region," but in other southern states, there is as much. We spray
just as much as the states in the south that spray towards the higher end of the
average pesticide use, but nothing overly alarming.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Thank you very much.
Chair Furfaro: Just for clarification, Kirby, what is the
difference between a "crop cycle" versus a "planting cycle" on Kaua`i?
Mr. Kester: Basically, no difference. They can be used
interchangeably.
Chair Furfaro: When I hear the term "planting cycle" and I
hear the term "crop cycle," there is no difference?
Mr. Kester: I hear people refer to it differently. There
are basically three (3) main cycles and might squeeze in four (4). It means putting
that crop on that piece of dirt once a year.
Chair Furfaro: Once a year?
Mr. Kester: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Mr. Bynum, you have the floor.
Mr. Bynum: This a key fundamental issue right here.
This is one of the key issues as far as I am concerned, and I want to make sure that
the community understands this. I am going to reframe JoAnn's question. I do not
know what you did, BASF. I only know what Pioneer did because the Federal Court
got us that data and they were spraying on average... so you have one field and you
divide into subplots, but for regulatory purposes that is one field, right? It has a
number. The Department of Agriculture knows what that field is, correct?
Mr. Kester: The Department of Agriculture and the
USDA track each individual field— what you refer to, I believe, as a "subplot" has a
unique identification.
Mr. Bynum: Right.
Mr. Kester: The master field identification is whatever
the cane companies called it. We adopted the same field terminology for that. Each
planting gets its own unique identification, and that is how we track all of our
pesticide data as uniquely to that one (1) plant.
Mr. Bynum: Please bear with me because this is
important.
Mr. Kester: Okay.
Mr. Bynum: You have these subplots, so now you are
doing "Experiment A" here and you are responding to the pests on that plot, right?
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 118 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Mr. Kester: Right.
Mr. Bynum: On the same numbered field, you have
another plot.
Mr. Kester: Correct.
Mr. Bynum: You are responding to the pests that are on
that plot, correct?
Mr. Kester: Possibly, yes.
Mr. Bynum: At least for Pioneer, on their one numbered
field, they were spraying two hundred forty (240) applications of pesticides each
year on average. "Okay, but it is a smaller quantity because it is just on subplots,
and it is not like they were spraying that whole field." Then you look at the
quantity and you just said that you are not spraying anymore than the high-end of
production Ag, and I hope that is true. If this Bill passes and we see your data, we
will know. Maybe I am improperly judging you based on Pioneer.
Mr. Kester: Right.
Mr. Bynum: But when I met with other entities, they
have not disagreed that that frequency of spraying is happening...
Chair Furfaro: I need a question, Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: The punch line of this is that data says it
was not on the high-end of production agriculture that Pioneer was spraying; it was
four (4) times the highest end of production agriculture. That argument about the
quantity and the frequency...
Mr. Kester: I still do not think that you understand it
properly because if someone was applying four (4) times the amount on that piece of
land, it would be caught by the Department of Agriculture Inspector in a heartbeat
for being off label.
Mr. Bynum: The Department of Agriculture has never
seen this data.
Mr. Kester: Yes they do. They come and inspect all of
our pesticide application records.
Mr. Bynum: I will follow-up later, Kirby.
Mr. Kester: This is important. This is the answer.
Mr. Bynum: Right. That data we received from Pioneer—
I am asking the State and the Federal EPA to analyze that data. So far, I have
gotten no help. You are right. There may be lots of violations contained in that
data. It needs to be analyzed, but the State Departments are not willing to do it.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 119 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Bynum, I have heard your piece. I want
to recognize Mr. Hooser. We also need a cameraman's break. Mr. Hooser, you have
the floor.
Mr. Hooser: Thank you. I do not want to belabor it, but
at the same time, I think we need to be clear on these issues. You said that the
Department of Agriculture inspection would show something. My inspection log for
two (2) years shows that they only inspected your company twice in two (2) years,
and that is the unredacted. Of the total inspections that they have done for the
County of Kaua`i, almost half of them are redacted for violations, but of those that
are open, it shows that they have been to your company twice in two (2) years. So
that, on principle, does not provide us with a lot of confidence. Are you saying that
is sufficient to answer these questions?
Mr. Kester: I can tell you that we do not look forward to
the Department of Agriculture visits to audit all the records. She will go through
with high amounts of detail at every record and look at the whole past year history.
She can also look at the subplot, calculate up what was applied of the labeled rate,
and the total allowable labeled rate for that piece of land for the year. That is the
first thing you look at to see if they are overusing a certain pesticide or not.
Mr. Hooser: Okay.
Mr. Kester: It is real easy to do with just math.
Mr. Hooser: The other question that I think is
important— you mentioned a lot of testimony today, and you have heard me say it
before, talk about the physicians in the community. A number of them, not just one
(1) or two (2) in Kaua`i Veterans Memorial Hospital (KVMH)— pediatricians,
medical doctors, and nurses all over the State are concerned. You heard a lot of
testimony from mothers. Parents are concerned. If I understand correctly, you
would consider that anecdotal information. Is that correct?
Mr. Kester: What I have heard so far, yes.
Mr. Hooser: It also seems that you believe that before
your company or the industry should take any precautionary issues at all, these
anecdotal information needs to be verified or proven without a doubt that they are
actually occurring. Is that what you are saying?
Mr. Kester: We take precautionary measures with ever
spray application we do. We follow every law there is. What I am saying is before
laws are enacted to create more regulations on it, I think there should be factual
data that has scientific consensus behind it.
Mr. Hooser: Great, we agree on something. That is why
this Bill is here. There are three (3) components to the Bill; one is the study that
you are talking about to determine whether or not these mothers, doctors, and the
people in our community have valid fears or not valid fears. That is one element of
three (3) right now. The first element is disclosure. You cannot do the study unless
you know what to study. We cannot spend millions of dollars doing a study if we do
not know what your company and the other companies are actually putting into the
environment and the community, so that is the purpose of the Bill. We would like
to reconcile that information just like you would apparently do, and we cannot do
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 120 OCTOBER 15, 2013
that without passing this Bill and getting that information. Our responsibility is to
protect the health and environment of our community, and that is what we are
trying to do. Your responsibility is different. You work for a corporation and you
are fiduciary relationship is to that corporation. Do you understand the difference
between your role and our role?
Mr. Kester: I understand the difference, but I think that
to address the concerns of the community, I do not see the need for this Bill for law
to be put in place to make that happen. I think it can happen another way.
Mr. Hooser: Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you,
Chair.
Chair Furfaro: We are going to take a caption break now. I
would like everyone to be back in their seats, ready to go, at 4:10 p.m.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 3:57 p.m.
The meeting reconvened at 4:21 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: Aloha. Please everyone, I continue to ask you
for your personal best here when it comes to the decorum in the room. I want to
thank you in advance. We have a significant amount of people to continue to take
some testimony from. I also want to make an announcement that Mr. Bynum had
to leave for a little while to take care of some errands, but he does plan to be back in
an hour or so. Madame Clerk, can I have the next speaker, please.
(Mr. Bynum is noted as not present.)
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Peter Wiederoder,
followed by Stephanie Iona.
PETER WIEDERODER: Chair Furfaro and Councilmembers, my
name is Peter Wiederoder. I am the site leader for Dow AgroSciences. Thank you
for allowing me to testify today. I am here to testify in support of the Mayor's
deferral and in support of the Mayor. I think it is right to give his Administration
time to look at the Bill in how he can administer this law. I have heard a lot of
comments about the State and how the State is understaffed, and even the lack in
the State. I think it is only fair that we should give the Mayor some time to work on
the Bill and work with his Administration on the resources that he needs, so he can
resource the County sufficiently to administer this Bill. I support the Mayor and
his call for a deferral. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Are there any questions for Peter? JoAnn, go
right ahead.
Ms. Yukimura: Peter, after your testimony, we will be
looking at the amended Bill. I was wondering whether Dow can live with the Bill as
amended.
Mr. Wiederoder: That is a difficult question to answer
straight up. Again, it is law, I am not a lawyer, and I do not represent Dow from a
legal point of view, so I cannot answer whether Dow as a corporation would find the
Bill acceptable. I do know that I am very willing to work with you and with the
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 121 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Mayor. We are very open to the voluntary actions and I have heard the concerns
about the voluntary actions. I think we do need to have the Mayor and the Council
involved in the voluntary actions. It needs to be a Committee. We are very
interested in working with the Mayor and with the Governor. We feel that a lot of
this is a State issue and with you, obviously, to see how we can implement the Bill.
Ms. Yukimura: Maybe you can clarify the word "voluntary."
Are you folks thinking of an actual agreement between the Governor and the
companies, or the Governor and the Mayor, or the County? Sorry— the companies
and the County or the companies and the State, where there would be actually a
written agreement that would be enforceable by parties?
Mr. Wiederoder: I have heard a lot talk about "memorandum
of understandings," putting an MOU together. I think we are very open to looking
at something like that and to use that as a mechanism.
Ms. Yukimura: We have been talking about an MOU
between the County and the State as a way to delineate enforcement
responsibilities, but I hear you saying that it might be in a memorandum of
agreement between you and the State, or you, the State, and the County... "you"
meaning the company, that actually would be parties to an agreement that would
be an enforceable agreement.
Mr. Wiederoder: That is something that we would like to work
with you, along with the Mayor.
Ms. Yukimura: It is not just a voluntary thing that you guys
say "we are willing to do this," as long as we are willing to do this?
Mr. Weideroder: I think there has to be a little bit more
behind than that, yes.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Because of the issue of enforceability,
Vice Chair and I have been looking at amendments which we have prepared to offer
today to convert the buffer from a "no pesticide use in the buffer" to a "no crops in
the buffer." Do you have any reaction at this time? We are just saying that it is so
much easier to enforce by just looking and seeing that there are no commercial
crops there versus whether there is pesticide drift in the buffer. Actually, the role of
the buffer is to take the drift, so that it does not hit third parties or houses outside
of the buffer. Do you have any input at this time about no crops in the buffer?
Mr. Wiederoder: I think that is an interesting proposal. It
could be something that we could live with. Again, my support is for more study for
a deferral to take a look at these issues.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Your company is very familiar with the
January 17, 2008 Hawai`i Pesticide Laws?
Mr. Wiederoder: I am not familiar with it per se myself.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 122 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Chair Furfaro: How about in 2006? There was a complete
Department of Agriculture set of rules framed for compliance with the pesticide law.
Are you familiar with it?
Mr. Wiederoder: I personally am not familiar with it, no.
Chair Furfaro: I just ask that question because these are
existing State documents that exist.
Mr. Wiederoder: Understood.
Chair Furfaro: You have answered my questions. Thank
you.
Mr. Hooser: Can you help us out with how the decision
making is done? Do you call the shots or do you have to call New York or Chicago?
Where is your headquarters?
Mr. Wiederoder: Dow AgroSciences is in Indianapolis,
Indiana.
Mr. Hooser: You said several times things like you are
open to this or you can work with that. I have not heard anything definitive and I
understand it may be difficult for you to be definitive. Who can be definitive?
Mr. Wiederoder: It depends on the question. Right now, you
are talking about legislation and government affairs, so it would be our government
affairs people in Indianapolis.
Mr. Hooser: They actually make the decision whether or
not to support legislation or someone behinds them makes that determination?
Mr. Wiederoder: Yes, it would be our government affairs
people that would decide and make recommendations to our Chief Executive Officer
(CEO).
Mr. Hooser: So is that the way the process works? You
leave here today, go call them, and ask and tell them what happened? Are they
watching us on television? Do you talk to them tomorrow?
Mr. Wiederoder: They are watching us right now.
Mr. Hooser: There are three (3) components to the
measure that we are look at right now; one is a study. Is it safe to say that Dow
AgroSciences is not opposed to the County doing a study? Is that safe to say?
Mr. Wiederoder: It is your County study, so we would not
have a problem with you doing a study.
Mr. Hooser: Okay. That is an affirmative. We have the
disclosure, and apparently you are working with the Governor on voluntary
disclosure? Is that correct?
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 123 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Mr. Wiederoder: I am not working with the Governor.
Nobody in my company, to the best of my knowledge, is working directly with the
Governor. We just support the Governor's statement and we put out a statement to
you saying that we would be supportive of that. We think it is a State issue and we
would be willing to work with the State on disclosure.
Mr. Hooser: So you are willing to disclose the chemicals
that you use in our community?
Mr. Wiederoder: We have already disclosed to you the amount
of RUPs in 2012. That is a starting point. We can have discussions and go from
there.
Mr. Hooser: Are you willing to disclose the general use
pesticides?
Mr. Wiederoder: I cannot comment on that right now. Again,
questions you have on that; we should be bringing forth in the studies.
Mr. Hooser: Would that be a government affairs person
in Indianapolis, Indiana that would answer that question?
Mr. Wiederoder: Yes.
Mr. Hooser: The buffer zones— same type of thing. You
support the Governor's press release?
Mr. Wiederoder: Correct.
Mr. Hooser: Okay.
Mr. Wiederoder: We are already doing voluntary buffer zones
and we are maintaining the buffer zones around the schools that are in the middle
of the land that we lease.
Mr. Hooser: If I can ask, how many feet is that?
Mr. Wiederoder: It varies from season to season. This year I
gave the request that we maintain five hundred (500) feet around the school, and
we were able to work that in with our planting schedule this year.
Mr. Hooser: Okay, so a five hundred (500) foot buffer
zone around the school does not cause you any grief?
Mr. Wiederoder: It did not this year. In future years as the
number of acres may increase, it may or may not. This year, we were able to do it
gladly.
Mr. Hooser: Okay. If you are already doing the buffer
zones and you are already willing to disclose, why are you not supporting this
legislation?
Mr. Wiederoder: You already had the discussion about
voluntary versus legislation.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 124 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Mr. Hooser: Have you ever supported any legislation
involving the increase of regulation for pesticides and genetically modified
organisms?
Mr. Wiederoder: That is not my role. That would be
government affairs.
Mr. Hooser: Have they?
Mr. Wiederoder: Not to my knowledge, but I am not that
knowledgeable on that.
Mr. Hooser: Right. In many ways, I do not expect them
to. That is our role to do that. Thank you very much.
Mr. Wiederoder: You are welcome.
Mr. Hooser: Thank you, Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Are there any other questions? JoAnn, you
have the floor.
Ms. Yukimura: Peter, you mentioned that the buffers around
the school there have varied with the seasons. Can you explain why and how that
would happen and still make sure there is protection?
Mr. Wiederoder: Well, we have farmable land that is within
five hundred (500) feet of the school. When you came out and visited us, you saw
that we may have a five (5) acre section of land that is farmable, but we only need to
plant two (2) acres in that five (5) acre plot. What we have done this year is make
sure that we use the two (2) acres of those five (5) acres that is the furthest away
from the school. Even though we have farmable land within five hundred (500) feet
of the school, we were able to plan where we plant our crops this season to make
sure we maintained a five hundred (500) feet buffer.
Ms. Yukimura: I think you also mentioned about
coordinating your operations for when school is out, so you do that factor as well...
working with the school?
Mr. Wiederoder: Yes. The fields that we had that were the
closest to schools, outside of the five hundred (500) feet buffer, but close to the
school; we made sure that we actually worked off that land last week while the
school was out. We kind of did that as a courtesy.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Are there any more questions for Peter?
Peter, thank you very much.
Mr. Wiederoder: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Next speaker, please
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 125 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Stephanie Iona, followed
by Mark Kennett.
STEPHANIE IONA: My name is Stephanie Iona. I am a resident
of Waimea and born and raised in Hawai`i. I did not expect to speak today. I
decided to because I felt that I wanted to just kind of step back and ask everyone to
take a breather. This room is not big enough for the other one hundred (100) people
outside and those people, I think, need a voice. What I would like to say is that all
of us, including the people in this room, are "Kauaians." We all believe in Kaua`i
and love Kaua`i. No matter how passionate we are about either side of the issue,
this is a democratic process. What it comes down to is what is the law, what is
legal, and the questions that you all have. I heard very sad things today and I will
quote people "threatening," "no good," "not pono," and "against the people." Also,
"threatening the fact that we the people" and "the community wants this." Yet,
signs are out there saying "protect the children." My children were born by
sugarcane fields on the island of Maui. I am from the island of O`ahu. I think what
I learned from all of the people that are truly Hawaiian, including some of my
friends that are sitting in this room, are from the island of Moloka`i. Mr. Ritte and I
are actually distant relatives. I look at things that we care for the land. We want
truth... scientific technology is just truth. But more than anything, all the people
that is from and truly believes in what we are as people are humble, so we do not
come out and say too much. When it comes to respect and lack of respect, and
telling our Mayor to go in front of a running train or that it is a "slap in the face,"
that is a slap in the face to the respect of all of your offices. I sat in a meeting
recently and I talked to people from the taro fields in Hanalei, and they said they
are afraid to answer their phone because of being threatened. What is a "threat?"
You are afraid the Legal Counsel might threaten you, they might threaten you, and
everybody is going to threaten everybody. The bottom line is that all our Mayor is
asking is to bring everybody to the table and ask the questions. You are still
asking questions. You are asking it of people in this room and you people are
asking questions, and everybody is asking questions. All he said is that he wants to
be the Monday night quarterback and take a timeout. Is that so bad? For that, he
has been told things like it is a "slap in the face" and all of this. There is no
nonsense for that here in Hawai`i. As far as what we all are as people, I sit on the
board of the hospital and I am very proud of our birthing center. There are fields
that are past Waimea Canyon. I believe that we do the best job to bring the
children into the world, which is everybody from Hanalei comes to our birthing
center to have a baby. Please do not cut down our hospital. Please do not cut down
our people. They believe the same things as we are all the people you represent.
Mayor, thank you for the timeout.
Chair Furfaro: Stephanie, that was your three (3) minutes.
Ms. Iona: Thank you very much.
Chair Furfaro: Stephanie, before you leave, you might have
not been in the room, but I have repeatedly asked people for respect and mutual
kokua in getting us through this. I am very proud of the fact that the Mayor is
sitting here in our presence all day.
Ms. Iona: Absolutely.
Chair Furfaro: I think that is a mark whether it goes one
way or the other, that is a mark of someone who is trying to lead.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 126 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Ms. Iona: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much. Next speaker, please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Mark Kennett, followed
by Pua Nani Rogers.
MARK KENNETT: Good afternoon, Council. My name is Mark
Kennett. Maybe I am speaking a little out of terms and this may be addressed a
little later in the EPHIS, if that is coming up or being brought up. I would like to
reiterate something that you may have seen yesterday in The Garden Island which
was a guest viewpoint from my father regarding the dump out on the west side,
which is pertaining to this that maybe an investigation should be going on out there
as I have heard many horror stories. Personally, I have not witnessed out on the
west side of birth defects, but that the dump be included inside of this EPHIS for
what is coming up there. JoAnn had to deal with it during Iniki, which has been a
difficult thing for many, many years with all the Administrations that have been
passed down to our Honorable Mayor now, which he is dealing with. We are tied up
there, but what is it admitting? Is that possible cause for some of the things that
are going on in the west side that we are hearing about? Again, I am not quite sure
if it is all true or if it is conjecture. It is something that needs to be included. It has
been there for many, many years. With stuff going into the groundwater; is that
possible for some of the things that are showing up out there? Is the drift coming
off that? It is not a "landfill" anymore; it is a "landhill." It needs to be included in
any kind of investigation that you do. Just get it out there. We are having all kinds
of things coming from the corn. Would it not be a travesty if this has nothing to do
with the corn and the things that these people are saying while it is coming off of
the "landhill," of the land mountains that us on the west side are having to deal
with and have had to deal with for many, many years. It keeps getting bigger,
bigger, and bigger. We are getting tired of it. Everybody's garbage— tourists, too.
Every one of us is guilty of contributing to that mountain, but it needs to be
included in the EPHIS. We are tired and we cannot live with it anymore. It is
polluting the west side. Please include it in your EPHIS. Thank you very much.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Pua Nani Rogers,
followed by Angela Hughes.
PUA NANI ROGERS: I have to catch my breath because I had to
walk from way out there. I wish they had called me to come and sit in here when
they knew my name was coming up. I was way up there sitting down.
Chair Furfaro: Nani, would you like to wait and let the next
speaker go, and then come back to you?
Ms. Rogers: No. I have been waiting since 8:30 a.m.
Please do not let me wait anymore.
Chair Furfaro: Okay.
Ms. Rogers: E welina kakou. Greetings everyone. My
name is Pua Nani Rogers. I was raised and born, and still live in the ahupua a of
Kealia, and so does my children, grandchildren, and greatgranchildren. Mahalo for
this opportunity as I catch my breath.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 127 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Chair Furfaro: Start her three (3) minutes from now. Do you
have your breath?
Ms. Rogers: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Okay, good.
Ms. Rogers: A kahea to all my kupuna and all of our
spiritual guardians that are surrounding us now that we cannot see, but is here. I
do kahea them and ask them to please come in this room and join us. Bring their
presence here and their knowledge of how we are supposed to protect our lands. I
am going to clear my head of all of the arguments and all of the discussions, and
everything that we have been talking about that seems somehow to be distractions
to us, when the main focus here is "how do we take care of our aina?" As you know,
governments recognize us as Native Hawaiians, Aboriginals, or indigenous people of
these Hawaiian islands. Our ancestors were the original people of these islands and
should also be recognized as the indigenous people of these islands. Based on that
truth, I wish to read some articles of the United Nations Declaration of Indigenous
People's Rights of the World. This declaration has been signed and adopted by the
United Nations on September of 2007. Therefore, it is law that all nations of the
world, including the United States of America and its puppet, fake State of Hawai`i
and this County are all subjects of this document. Having said that, I wish to read
you Article 32 of the United Nations Declaration. I am speaking to you as an
indigenous person of this aina; a kanaka maoli. I am speaking about the whole
archipelago, not necessarily just Kaua`i. That is how far our rights go to the aina
including the oceans. "Indigenous people have the right to determine and develop
priorities and strategies for the development or use of their lands or territories and
other resources. States shall consult and cooperate in good faith with the
indigenous people's concerns through their own representative institutions in order
to obtain their free and informed consent prior to the approval of any project
affecting their lands or territories and other resources, particularly in connection
with the development, utilization or exploitation of minerals, water, land, and other
resources."
Chair Furfaro: Pua Nani, that was your time.
Ms. Rogers: It is three (3) minutes?
Chair Furfaro: Yes.
Ms. Rogers: May I just close with one more comment?
Chair Furfaro: Let me do this; do you have another
comment for us as it relates to indigenous people?
Ms. Rogers: Yes. Mahalo. "The State shall also provide
effective mechanisms for just and fair redress for any such activities, and
appropriate measures shall be taken to mitigate adverse, environmental,
economical, social, cultural, or spiritual impact." I am in agreement with this
Article and have spoken to support Bill No. 2491, which has already offered many,
many reasons on why it should pass regarding its science, hydrology, medical facts,
all of the research that is done on pesticides, and manmade laws of Government, as
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 128 OCTOBER 15, 2013
well as the "fake State laws." Above all of these laws is the law of ke akua and I
believe that is the supreme law above all manmade laws.
Chair Furfaro: Pua Nani, on that, I have to say that you
answered my question.
Ms. Rogers: Okay. Please, not just physically or
spiritually, I hope you will give the consideration about how we malama our aina
because that is why I am here and speaking for our kupuna and for people that are
not here, that do not have a voice. I am that voice. Please malama our aina and
pass the Bill. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Next speaker, please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Angela Hughes, followed
by Amanda Oana.
ANGELA HUGHES: Aloha, my name is Angela Hughes. I want to
give a mahalo to the distinguished Councilmembers, Attorney, and Chair for all
your tireless and continued efforts. There is a significant danger in moving to a
deferral. The State has been working on attempts to strip citizens at the County
level of protecting ourselves from pesticides. There may be potential for a special
session where these may be reintroduced prior to January's normal session. If the
State were to be genuine in its sudden supposed interest, I am sure they would be
welcomed to join in effectively moving in alignment with our efforts as we progress.
Enhancing their presentation operations in research, regulation, and enforcement
along these lines may be a relevant place to start. Protections in place with
separations of our levels of Government provide checks and balances and stagger at
the distribution of power, i.e., in the Federal, State, and County and city levels. The
ability of our County to pass this Bill is an example of how those with vested
interests coming from within our County community can effectively create positive
change with lower levels of risk like conflict of interest among government officials,
regulatory agencies, and problems with corruption from corporate money influences.
We have a risk of facing even further obstacles to our ability to be part of these
minimal protections. Our community is activated and this is at the forefront of our
awareness. In regards to the question to Blake from the GMO-Free Kaua`i group
with presence at future meetings and efforts to assist with our community; we are
behind you. Although Blake may be a bit on the busy side, I can attest on behalf of
the community that there are many others who can fill his shoes and even be
advised by him, if needed. I will personally help to connect those community
members and others as well, if it is pursued and desired. We have the opportunity
to leave a legacy that we can be proud of. The time to act is now. I believe in you.
I believe in us. Mahalo.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Amanda Oana, followed
by Shane Johnson.
Chair Furfaro: Is Amanda here? Please go to the next
speaker, and then come back to Amanda. I know she is right here, but I want to
keep moving here. Amanda, you will be next. Shane Johnson, please come up.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 129 OCTOBER 15, 2013
SHANE JOHNSON: Aloha, Council and Mayor. I am known as
(inaudible), also known as Shane Johnson. I come from the paint clan of a
sovereign Cherokee Treaty recognized nation. Our Country has treaties with the
Kingdom of Atooi. I was actually asked to come here as a spiritual ambassador. I
am a prayer man. We have a church here. The Mayor knows our church and
actually stood up for us and to help protect our religious rights. I want to say that
on his behalf. He came to the powwow and he danced. The County supported us
here. I was asked to come here today to this island to pray and bring prayer. There
is a prayer I wanted to share with you guys. This prayer is for life. Our prayer is
for clean food, clean medicine, clean Earth, clean water, and clean air for the future
generations. There was a covenant that was given to us by God in the beginning.
The covenant was life everlasting. It was given to us as kuleana to take care of this.
I am going to tell you that this is real simple. Our Country goes after other
Countries that are doing chemical warfare on people. My question is this; let it be
known. Let us let it be known because if these chemicals take one (1) day to kill our
children, one (1) week, or one (1) year; do we have the right to know, resist, and
make laws to protect our environment, life, and our connection to creator. Yes, we
do have that right. I am asking not for a deferral because you know why— I have
five (5) kids. My wife is pregnant with a child right now. If there is a chance that
these chemicals are hurting us, our Earth, water, and air... no more. No second can
go on. I trust in God. I come here to pray. This is the thing about disclosure,
buffers, and all of this. When you create these chemicals, they go into the Earth,
air, and water. You cannot contain them. If a bug will not eat something, you
better pay attention to that. There is a serious problem with that. What are we
doing to our Earth? Then they want to use corn. That was something the native
people gave to them, and then they took something sacred and turned it into poison,
and poisoned the people with that. My daughters had something to ask the Mayor
today. They asked him, "Are you for support of the Bill or not?" He said, "Do you
think any of us in our right mind poison the generations knowing that?" No, I do
not. That is why we want to pass the Bill so we can know. If we do find out that
this is the case then let us put laws to protect ourselves, our future, and to protect
our keiki. It is commonsense. It does not take a lawyer, rocket scientist, or
anything to know about that. We are talking about pesticides and poisons here.
What is the difference between those and chemical warfare? I tell you, there is a
warfare that is going on. They are poisoning our aina, water, air, and the food.
Whether it takes us one (1) year to get sick or ten (10) years to get sick, we have to
think about the future. The other Countries that gets disclosed... every Country
where it got disclosed of what they used—they have been kicked out of the Country.
Chair Furfaro: That is your three (3) minutes.
Mr. Johnson: Pass the Bill.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Amanda Oana, followed
by Wendall Kabutan.
Chair Furfaro: Amanda, you need to introduce yourself
before you speak.
AMANDA OANA: Hi, I am Amanda Oana. I actually was not
going to come in because I think over the years of how I watched everybody on
television and everybody's opinion, but nobody counts pretty much sums it up for
me after watching a lot of changes here, which is really sad to me. I am going to
come forth today. One thing I want to say, although I did not have anything
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 130 OCTOBER 15, 2013
prepared, is that the word "buffer" is not in the Hawaiian language. Number one,
"buffers," which to me seems endless to find what that exactly means on the island
to safety. You guys can make history today and pass this Bill, and stand up to
whatever is bigger than you guys. To our Councilmembers, I have a feeling that
there is something even scarier behind Syngenta. Without going into other names,
possibly DuPont. These are big, big companies out there running everything. I
pray today that you will do the right thing and pass this Bill. I would like to
comment Susan, who maybe hours ago, came up who has been working for
Syngenta two and a half (2.5) months. She could not answer to any results or any
scientific studies turned in since they have been here growing things to alleviate our
fears that they can show us that they are safe. Do you guys have anything from
them? Honestly, you, JoAnn?
Chair Furfaro: Your questions are not appropriate. You can
address it to the body. Please use your time appropriately.
Ms. Oana: Okay. I will and I hope you will, too. I hope
you will make history today and pass the Bill, and do the right thing. Do you have
any questions for me? I would like to make one comment. I have a little girl who is
eight (8) years old and this is not something made up. I do not live near the
Canyon. I have a little girl with a lot of bloody noses and if we need to bring that in
and document with Dr. Ross or somebody else, I will. There is more going on than
you just singling out Waimea because that is where they are growing stuff and the
pesticides are being sprayed. I would like you to think about that when you see me
today and not my daughter. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: We have a question for you. JoAnn, you
have the floor.
Ms. Yukimura: Where do you live?
Ms. Oana: Keapana Valley.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Are there any questions? Okay, thank you
for your testimony.
Ms. Oana: Thank you. God bless you on this.
Ms. Yukimura: And you also.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Wendell Kabutan,
followed by Klayton Kubo.
WENDELL KABUTAN: My name is Wendell Kabutan. I am from
Waimea Valley. To be brief, my wife had breast cancer and two and a half (2.5)
years ago, I almost died because I could not breathe. About two and a half (2.5)
weeks ago, again, I could not breathe. It may be anecdotal. I cannot prove
anything, but I know it is the pesticides because weeks before it is coming on. I
know they are spraying the fields and depending on the poisons that they use, I
used to be asthmatic as a kid so it affects me. I went to the emergency room two
and a half (2.5) weeks ago and they could not find anything wrong with me. Two
and a half years (2.5) ago, they sent me to Honolulu, took a dye test, and found
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 131 OCTOBER 15, 2013
nothing wrong with me, except that I cannot breathe. My wife and I are going to
leave and sell. Does anybody want to buy our house? It is cheap. It is too
dangerous for us. I hear the seed companies saying that we have to prove that their
chemicals are affecting our health, but I have not heard them say that they proof
beyond a reasonable doubt that all of the poisons that they are using not affecting
my health. It is like we have to prove but they do not have to do anything. They
can use all of these poisons like 2,4-D, Glyphosate, and Atrazine which has been
scientifically proven by all kinds of scientists and research all around the world that
there are side effects on people's health. Yet, they denied the American Academy of
Pediatrician's report of all the effects on the children, as well as adults. We are
doing our own little cluster study in Waimea. It is not professional but just in the
Valley and in Kekaha, we have one hundred eighteen (118) names of people who
died of cancer and survived, et cetera. One is too many. That is my question to the
seed companies. Prove to me that all those poisons are safe. They are not safe. It
is proven. All over the world, they use it to kill bugs, animals, and whatever. It is
affecting our health in Waimea... the children and people who have been spraying
in the fields. They are afraid to come out in the public but they have told us that
they had problems, so that is one of my main questions about the health issue. If
this is a democracy, I believe in the democracy. I believe in the Declaration of
Independence and the Constitution. How can five (5) corporations who came to be
people overrule thousands of people who object it? Is this a democracy or what?
Five (5) corporations rule the world and our voices are quenched. It does not make
any sense to me.
Chair Furfaro: Wendell, thank you very much. Are there
any questions for Wendell? JoAnn, you have the floor.
Ms. Yukimura: Wendell, thank you very much for coming
forward. I know it takes considerable courage and effort. How far is the nearest
field from your house?
Mr. Kabutan: I live on Ala Wai Road. I do not know. I live
close to Klayton Kubo. We live on the same street.
Ms. Yukimura: Are you talking about the field across the
river that is high above?
Mr. Kabutan: Yes, right on the cliff.
Ms. Yukimura: If the spray is coming, it is likely to be
through the dust rather than through pesticide drift or you think that...
Mr. Kabutan: No, I can smell the poison.
Ms. Yukimura: You can you smell it.
Mr. Kabutan: I have filed pesticide reports and they could
not do anything.
Ms. Yukimura: The closest field is across the river and up on
the hill?
Mr. Kabutan: Yes.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 132 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Ms. Yukimura: There is nothing in the valley itself?
Mr. Kabutan: No. It is coming off the cliff. You can see the
dust and you can smell the poisons. They used to do it during the day, and then
they changed and started doing it late at night like 12:00 a.m. I go out and I can
smell the poisons. I thought my neighbor's house was burning. They do it at night
to the hide the dust and some of the spraying.
Ms. Yukimura: So you are doing this informal study of one
hundred eighteen (118) people who died...
Mr. Kabutan: Or survived or presently going through
chemotherapy.
Ms. Yukimura: So they either died or presently have cancer
of some sort?
Mr. Kabutan: Yes, primarily.
Ms. Yukimura: Have you done data on how many of those
smoke or used to smoke as well?
Mr. Kabutan: No.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. There are those factors that could be
contributing.
Mr. Kabutan: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: If we get to do epidemiological studies, we
would have to factor that in in order to be able to say accurately what the cause is.
Mr. Kabutan: But it is just that so many neighbors have
been sick like my neighbor across the street and two (2) homes down. They all have
cancer.
Ms. Yukimura: Right.
Mr. Kabutan: It is on and on, and on in the valley. The
thing of it is, again, it is not for us to prove. That is my thinking. It is in reverse.
They have to prove that they are not affecting my health using proven poisons that
kill people.
Ms. Yukimura: Well, an epidemiological study should help to
test for some of that.
Mr. Kabutan: They have to prove it to me.
Ms. Yukimura: Correct.
Mr. Kabutan: It is not that I have to prove to them; they
have to prove it to me that it is safe.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 133 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Ms. Yukimura: What the epidemiological study should show
is whether there is a cause and effect or not.
Mr. Kabutan: I called the State people. They put out that
report. The first lady told me thirty-five (35) cases a year. The second guy told me
seventy-five (75). From the American Cancer Society on Kaua`i, there were two
hundred fifty (250) who applied for services. That does not count the people who did
not apply.
Ms. Yukimura: Right.
Mr. Kabutan: The numbers are all off from the reports that
are given in the newspaper.
Ms. Yukimura: We have to make sure that is not the same
situation where there are no corn companies at all. Thank you.
Mr. Kabutan: The American Academy of Pediatricians put
out that report and they study all over the United States. It is also professionals
who did the study, so it does not have to be proven. It has already been proven. It
is a matter of accepting what the medical community has provided for us.
Ms. Yukimura: That does not show site specific research, but
thank you very much.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you, Wendell.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Klayton Kubo.
KLAYTON KUBO: Good afternoon, Council. I think this is my
fourth time talking to the five (5) of you.
Chair Furfaro: Klayton, you need to introduce yourself for
the record.
Mr. Kubo: Klayton Kubo from Waimea. I think this is
fourth time talking to some of you guys. I do not know what else to say. I do not
know how to convince you guys that we need help. This is a serious matter
happening, not only in Waimea, but Puhi and Po`ipu. Where else are they going?
Why do we have to prove that they are doing something wrong to us? Why is that?
That is what I cannot understand. For me, it has been many years now, many
years. It seems like that one company, to me, they just disrespecting me majorly.
How can they even do that? What right do they have that they can farm and their
stuff can come on my stuff? How is that? Their stuff comes on my son— I do not
approve of that already. When are we going to get help? That is all I can say.
When is the help going to come? The Department of Agriculture and the
Department of Health are not happening. Not even. I dealt with them many years
now and they seem to like not get it, I guess, I am going to say because I guess we
have to prove that we are getting affected. I got proof in my house. I got proof on
my truck. I get proof on my son's pillow. In fact, he just told me, "Dad, remember
you bought the pillow and told me open the windows, and the wind became strong;
my pillow was all brown." It seems like to me that these guys have to prove that
they are not harming us. That is what I look at. They need to prove that. How can
they spray "side" action? All the "sides" kills. All the thing does is kill. Maybe I am
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 134 OCTOBER 15, 2013
a human being and that is why they are taking a long time to kill me must be. I
guess so. I am still here, thirteen (13) years trying to do something, but you guys
have to do something. You guys are the one. In actuality, why do we have to prove
that they are not harming us? Something is wrong there that we have to prove.
No, I think that is wrong.
Chair Furfaro: That was your three (3) minutes.
Mr. Kubo: Thirteen (13) years now— thank you very
much, Mr. Mayor.
Chair Furfaro: To the audience, I want to tell you that if you
continue to carry applause after applause for each speaker, I am going to recess the
meeting. Did somebody call him? JoAnn has a question.
Ms. Yukimura: That is okay.
Chair Furfaro: Next speaker, please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Kaliko Kanaele, followed
by Alan Hoffman.
KALIKO KANAELE: Aloha, Council. My name is Kaliko Kanaele.
My name itself, "Kaliko," for the Kaliko summit here and "Kanaele," for the
Kanaele Swamp. We also have a Kanaele taro patch around here someplace. I
come from Hawai`i island. We talk about buffer zones there, too. Our Council also
has this great task before them. We spoke there, too. Our buffer zones are ten (10)
miles off of Kaua`i. Any given good, windy day, you will see vog here from Hawai`i
island accompanied with depleted Uranium, geothermal, and maybe some GMO,
too. It travels by dust and is activated by an open fire. If you are around an open
fire and it is windy that day, you might be affected. We support this Bill that you
have here. It is not as strong as our Bill, but it is a step to really knowing what is
going on. How do you like the Staph... the new Staph, and now we have the
Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA). Remember before when we
were young, our age group; our generation is supposed to fix this. We came from a
time when walking inside the ocean would heal ourselves. Now, when we walk into
the ocean, we might die. We have to pay attention. Thank you for bringing it this
far and listening to our people here on this island. I can see you really care. Please
support this Bill, yourselves, and even our Mayor here, to do the best thing you can
do for our people. I believe that God has given us all of this. We stand upon, sleep
in it, swim in it, and breathe it. The living God is within. When he leaves us, he
just leaves a shell. They say the living God is human; no, it is the Earth. We are
the extensions of the God called Maka`ainana. We look from the source so I can
speak all of these things to you. The Earth cannot talk. It can shake a little bit and
(inaudible). A few of us come and speak this way. You have to understand that we
have to help each other on this Earth. Do not let our (inaudible) help us out in the
other way. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Before you leave and before I recognize
JoAnn, we need to take a tape change break. We have a question from one of the
Councilmembers. We are on a tape change break.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 5:11 p.m.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 135 OCTOBER 15, 2013
The meeting reconvened at 5:29 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: May I have the attention in the audience,
please. We would like to continue with the meeting. If you have conversations,
please take them outside. If the seats are not filled in the appropriate time
afterwards, I will let the Staff fill the other seats. We were about to recognize
Councilmember Yukimura. You had a question for the speaker.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you, Kaliko. The Bill that was passed
on Hawai`i island, did it address pesticides at all?
Mr. Kanaele: I think it addressed getting them out. I
think we are beyond pesticides already.
Ms. Yukimura: Right, so it basically banned GMO crops with
the exception of papayas?
Mr. Kanaele: Yes, they grandfathered it in.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay, so they did not address pesticide use?
Mr. Kanaele: No. We already knew it was the bad thing.
Ms. Yukimura: How many acres of GMO crops are there on
Hawai`i island?
Mr. Kanaele: That is the part. We need disclosure, too. In
Puna alone, I think there is about three (3) or four (4) big farms that we are aware
of and I do not know how many others.
Ms. Yukimura: Are these corn?
Mr. Kanaele: Besides papaya... they are just starting to
experiment with different things but because of the push from the community, I
think they kind of stopped pushing.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Are there any established farms of
any of the five (5) GMO companies like Monsanto, DuPont, BASF, Dow, or Syngenta
on Hawai`i island presently?
Mr. Kanaele: Presently, I think they are there but I am
not really sure.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Are there any more questions? If not,
Kaliko, mahalo.
Mr. Kanaele: Thank you. Can I say one comment before I
leave?
Chair Furfaro: Let me do this— do you have a comment?
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 136 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Mr. Kanaele: Yes, I do. Thank you. I would just like to
thank you, Councilmembers, Mayor, and all of our people here on both sides for
bringing it to educational purposes and bringing it all together to really do
something about it. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Next speaker, please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Alan Hoffman, followed
by Pua La`a.
Chair Furfaro: Alan Hoffman is not present. Next speaker,
please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Pua La`a is up next.
Chair Furfaro: Do we have a Pua La`a? Can somebody call
her? There she is.
PUA LA`A: Aloha kakou. `O ko`u inoa `o Pua La`a.
Thank you Honorable County Councilmembers for having us present here to
exercise our right for democracy. I have already spoken quite a few times and sent
in testimony. I feel a little bit frustrated to have to have to come again, but I am
actually happy to have the opportunity. Gary and Tim, I cannot thank you enough,
really. I am just so grateful to you for sponsoring this Bill. When I listen to some of
the testimonies that occur and how you speak, I am really grateful to have you in
our County Council. To get to the point, basically, you have already been presented
with the facts. These RUPs are extremely dangerous to life forms. They are not
containable. They mutate. Once they are into the water, they are going to go into
the food chain. We already have had Pediatricians speak about the health concerns.
I am sure you seen test results on lab rats, pigs, frogs, intestines exploding, et
cetera. You cannot ignore that information. Bottom line, when it comes down to it,
you have to err on the side of caution. Until it is proven safe, they do not have the
right to expose the public to these chemicals until they can prove and they have the
responsibility. They have the burden of right to prove that it is safe. It is not that
we have to prove that it is unsafe and it is not that we should have to provide
documentation, et cetera. Actually, that documentation is there. You just need to
look behind the smoke screen. There is a reason why many nations in the world are
banning and boycotting GMOs. People do not want to buy the crops. Please do not
fall into the illusion of"we are trying to feed the world." First of all, these crops are
not for human food consumption. Second, they are not safe. There are centuries old
of agricultural practices that are sustainable to the environment and do not cause
harm, death, and destruction. There are many crop resources that we could
cultivate that would create income and revenue, where we try to ship it off island or
export it out of the Country, you are not meeting people saying, "No, we do not want
that. It is boycotted and it is banned." Why on earth would we be considering
having these crops and allowing them to use these pesticides in the air, exposing
our children, elders, neighborhoods, soil, and the resources of land, air, and water?
Why would you even consider that? Bottom line, these things are proven to be
unsafe. There is no reason. You should look towards sustainability. You should be
considering...
Chair Furfaro: That was your three (3) minutes.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 137 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Ms. La`a: Okay. Pardon me. County Councilmembers,
what I would like to ask is that you absolutely do not defer this. Do not pass this
responsibility onto the State. I ask that you actually reinsert the guts back into the
Bill, pass the Bill, and we will move forward from there. Many of us will not accept
a deferral. A deferral is not acceptable. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you.
Ms. La`a: I have one last closing statement. Pardon
me. Health and the resources of the land, air, and water...
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me, let me stay with the rules. Do
you have a last statement?
Ms. La`a: I do.
Chair Furfaro: Please summarize.
Ms. La`a: Thank you very much. You cannot buy back
the health of the land, people, air, and the water. Once you lose that, it is gone.
Furthermore, these companies are making a profit off of our natural resources for
their benefit and they are taking that profit off island. It is not about money; it is
about health. Health is the greatest wealth. Mahalo and aloha.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. I want to cover a little
housekeeping item here about the making of a bill so that everybody understands.
It has been a long time, but a bill starts with an introduction of a bill presented to
the Chairman. The bill is presented to the Chairman. The Chairman then decides
if it goes on the agenda. It goes on to the agenda, and it then has a first reading.
That first reading is then determined to create a public hearing. The public hearing
has occurred and it goes into Committee. The Committee is chaired by Mr. Hooser
and five (5) members. It came out of Committee on October 8th. That is the process.
This is only the second time it has been in front of the full Council. That is how a
bill is made and that is the process. Thank you. Next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Timoteo Hew Len,
followed by Mary Mullhall.
Chair Furfaro: Is that Timoteo? Staff, we having a little
problem here with calling people. Maybe we should go down and read a list of
members names. Mary, you can come up if you are ready.
MARY MULLHALL: Thank you all of you for sitting through all of
this. What I have to say is short.
Chair Furfaro: Mary, you need to introduce yourself.
Ms. Mullhall: I am Mary Mullhall. One of the things that
is not in dispute is that the teachers and the children of Waimea Canyon
Intermediate School got very sick. Some went to the hospital because of something
that was sprayed around Waimea Canyon School. That is not in dispute. Given
that simple, straightforward fact, asking for buffer zones around the schools and
asking to find out what is being sprayed are very reasonable requests. Thank you
all for listening and thank you for hanging in there all day long. Thank you.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 138 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. The speaker that we put before
Mary; can we call him again?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Timoteo Hew Len.
Chair Furfaro: He is not present and I heard he left.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Cahla Bloom, followed
by Lyle Robinson.
Chair Furfaro: These two (2) are not present at the moment,
so let us call up the next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Kathleen Viernes,
followed by Andrea Brower.
Chair Furfaro: Staff, we are going to take a five (5) minute
break. Please have somebody read the names of the people downstairs because we
need to move on.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 5:41 p.m.
The meeting reconvened at 5:43 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: We are back in session. Andrea, you may
begin your testimony.
ANDREA BROWER: Thank you all so much for sitting through
another round of this and thank you especially to the Administration because I
realize that you do not have to be here, and this is not the first hearing that you
have voluntarily sat through. I feel like such a hypocrite because I told everybody
else not to testify, but here I am because after having a couple of conversations over
the hours, I felt a need to briefly clarify a couple of things. The last time I testified,
I criticized the Administration for the sense of overwhelm they brought forward and
the role of the seed companies were playing in creating this. I would like to
acknowledge that the sense of overwhelm is a logical reaction to the intense kind of
emotion in charge that is coming from us, the community, and the Administration's
worries that if this Bill passes, people might see it as "the be all, end all savior" and
start to direct all of their concerns to the Mayor's Office. As somebody who has been
very involved in this process, I would like to clarify that a vast majority of the public
does understand that this Bill is not going to solve all of the concerns and
frustrations that have are being raised. The public's intensity of emotion comes
from feeling that something needs to be done and very serious issues that need to be
addressed. This Bill is a commonsense, reasonable, first action step to addressing
health and environmental concerns, gather more information with that information,
investigate impacts, and implement buffer zones as most other Counties and
developed countries do. While the public is strongly opposed to a deferral because
we already know there are efforts underway at the State level to preempt the
County's efforts, we do appreciate as is in the current draft of the Bill, that some of
the rule making details will take some time to work out and to implement. We have
sloganized "pass the bill, pass the bill" to make it clear that we demand action, but
nobody is expecting or should be expecting all of the problems that are related to
this industry to be solved the day the Mayor signs the Bill into law. I would just
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 139 OCTOBER 15, 2013
like to repeat the word "law" because voluntary action is never a substitute for
regulatory action, especially when you are dealing with, and let us be very blunt
and straightforward— this is not hyper rhetoric, when you are dealing with the
largest chemical companies in the world that have some of the very worst track
records in terms of environmental pollution and human right violations. Thank you
very much.
Chair Furfaro: Are there any questions? If not, Andrea,
thank you very much. Next speaker, please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Lyle Robinson, followed
by Kathleen Viernes.
LYLE ROBINSON: Thank you, Councilmembers. Aloha, my
name is Lyle Robinson. Thank you for continuing to listen to us. I know that at
this point, we are all saying variations on the same theme. You know what we
think and you know how we feel. I am a doctor here, and for more than the past ten
(10) years, I have been concerned about the GMO and pesticide experimentation on
this island. I am so relieved and grateful that the island community has now come
together to address this very serious concern for our people, for our land, and for the
future. I am here again to strongly urge you to vote in favor of Bill No. 2491. Since
you have been elected by the people of Kaua`i to represent the people of this island
and not corporations, please do honestly represent us. We live in a democracy,
which was based upon a government for the people, of the people, and by the people.
It seems increasingly that our Government is shifting into a corporatocracy. Please
do not cave in to this stripping of democracy. History will reveal that this trend is
entirely detrimental to the well being of ordinary citizens. Please do not contribute
to the corruption of our democracy. Please do what you know in your hearts to be
right thing for the island of Kaua`i. We know this is just the beginning of our
struggle to restore the aina and the people of Kaua`i to their rightful and healthy
states of being. We are not going away and we are not giving up. We must protect
what we love and it is our kuleana to aloha aina. It is not for no reason that at
least twenty-two (22) countries around the world are in the process of banning or
have already banned GMOs and many of these dangerous pesticides. The burden of
proof should not be upon us to prove that these practices are dangerous, but rather
the burden of proof should be upon the chemical agricultural companies to prove
that what they are doing is indeed safe. Please choose to be on the right side of
history at this very crucial time for all of us. Mahalo and aloha.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. We have a question for you.
Ms. Yukimura: Is it Dr. Robinson?
Ms. Robinson: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you for your testimony and excuse me
for not knowing but, are you one of the doctors from the west side?
Ms. Robinson: I am not. I do know nurses in the hospital
on the west side who are actually afraid to come forward and speak for fear of losing
their jobs.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. I was going to ask this of
Councilmember Hooser, but anybody— I know there was an assertion that the rate
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 140 OCTOBER 15, 2013
of birth defects is far greater than usual, but I have seen no statistics. Do you have
any?
Ms. Robinson: I do not have statistics. What I hear is
anecdotal from two (2) friends of mine who are labor and delivery nurses there.
They say that what they are seeing is so disturbing.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes, but they do not have...
Ms. Robinson: I know. I have said that you need to go
forward and document.
Ms. Yukimura: They do not even have to come forward
themselves, but somebody needs to accumulate the statistics.
Ms. Robinson: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you. Maybe that is something we will
do through the EPHIS study. If assertions are being made, there has to be some
numbers.
Ms. Robinson: Yes, I agree. I do keep talking to them and
urging them to start collecting data that is presentable.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Next speaker, please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Kathleen Viernes.
KATHLEEN VIERNES: My name is Kathleen Viernes. Aloha,
Councilmembers. I am here speaking today to advocate for the passing of
Bill No. 2491 today. I read Councilmember Yukimura's commentary in The Garden
Island and I feel that the Council needs to be aware of the word "delay" in the
context of this Bill decision today. Basically, it translates to mean a "no vote" out
there in the real world. It does not matter what color clothing a person is wearing
today. Everyone knows that the word "delay," as you propose in The Garden Island
commentary, means that chemical agriculture on Kaua`i will be alive and well and
free to conduct business as usual. Many of us know that the State Legislation will
crush whatever semblance we have for controlling pesticide use by these GMO
giants on our own island. In two (2) months, all the "probablies," "maybes," and
"coulds" that you put in your commentary, Councilmember Yukimura, will surely
prove to be devastating for Kaua`i. In your commentary you wrote and I quote,
"Working with the Department of Agriculture over the next two (2) months could
give us a contingency plan." What if it does not? Again, I quote "they," and you are
referring to the Department of Agriculture, "could adopt the provisions of the Bill
No. 2491 or something similar and take it from there with all of us watching."
Watching? Is that what you think that the citizens of Kaua`i wants to be doing over
the next two (2) months, years, or decades as the State drags their feet and health
and environmental problems pile up because the GMO companies dodged the bullet
of accountability? Bill No. 2491 is about acting, not watching. The mountain of
seriously disturbing testimony that has been shared with all of you about the toxic
poisoning of our island has not happened because citizens of Kauai were content to
watch. We are done watching and waiting. We are done watching the toxic dust
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 141 OCTOBER 15, 2013
blow from these experimental fields onto the skin and into the lungs of our people
and all life form here. We are done watching those same toxic chemicals wash into
our precious ocean, killing and deforming all life forms there. We are done hearing
about the rise of cancers, illness, and diseases related to toxic exposure of countless,
horrible poisons coming from those GMO companies. Those companies who are
totally out of touch with what is going on, and the Mayor— you ask us to give
another chance for them to rise up to the occasion? No. They have never earned
such consideration. We are done licensing to those lying GMO companies spew
toxic words that ask us to trust them now, even as they threaten to sue us. Their
entire legacies are built upon lies, deceit, and self serving actions aimed only at
profits and power mongering. The community has no value to them beyond
providing a workforce supply and land. That is it. We are done trusting that our
Government at the State level is even capable for standing up for the citizens of
Kaua`i or anywhere in the State for that matter because the GMO companies have
imbedded themselves into our State government and agriculture decision making.
Apparently, it seems into our County government as well now. They happily fill
campaign coffers in exchange for special favors and protection. Do you think the
people of this island, of this State, and of the world cannot see that? The people of
Kaua`i are over the threat of being sued by these GMO bullies and our Council
needs to get over that fear, too. We are not alone in this fight and not incapable of
handling it.
Chair Furfaro: Your three (3) minutes are up. Please
summarize.
Ms. Viernes: Please vote "yes" today to pass Bill No. 2491.
I know that even if it gets messy, because real change often does that, your vote is
the right vote. It will make Kaua`i a better place to live, and you, a better person
for your courage to vote "yes." Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: We have questions for you. Councilwoman
Yukimura, you have the floor.
Ms. Yukimura: Kathleen, thank you for your testimony. I
just want you to understand that what I said in my guest commentary was if the
court throws the Bill out, then where do we go and if we have tied down the
Department of Agriculture in a memorandum of agreement; that is better than not
having anything, including having the local law being declared "illegal."
Ms. Viernes: Can I respond to that?
Ms. Yukimura: Yes.
Ms. Viernes: My concern is that there has been a lot... it
is the legal opinion thing. The GMO companies say "we are going to sue and this is
our case," which of course they are not saying everything. Then we have Legal
Counsel— who would propose a Bill that does not have some standing and a lot of
opinions going on that support that passing. You are right. I am not a lawyer, but I
can see that sometimes you just step out of the comfort zone and make a move. I
really do not know what to say about that other than if we do not do this and we
delay it, and then the Legislature shuts down Kaua`i's ability to make that choice
later— the fact that you are asking us to stand back and watch to see what
happens; that has been going on for years. It is very unsettling and I do not trust
that process.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 142 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Ms. Yukimura: If the Bill is thrown out of court, we will have
to go to the State Legislature or the Department of Agriculture.
Ms. Viernes: Well, then we do that, but I say the first
step...
Ms. Yukimura: That is what I mean about hopefully they
have adopted something and we have to watch them to make sure they enforce it.
Ms. Viernes: Why do we not pass it today is my question?
What is the problem with that? If there is a "plan B," which is again, go back and
hold them accountable...
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me, our format is that you have had
your time and she poses the question.
Ms. Viernes: I do not have an answer for that because I
cannot answer.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Cahla Bloom.
CAHLA BLOOM: Hello, Councilmembers. My name is Cahla
Bloom and it is an honor to be here. I have lived on the island for Kauai for nearly
a year. October 18th will be my one (1) year anniversary. You might wonder "who
am I to speak?" I want to share with you my background a little bit. I was born in
Johannesburg, South Africa under the oppressive Apartheid Regime. I was ten (10)
years old when Nelson Mandela became president. I also lived in Chile while
studying the effects of the dictatorship of the Pinochet Regime, which was very
oppressive. I hold degrees from two (2) of the top ten (10) universities in the
Country. I have a Bachelor of Arts (BA) from Columbia in Anthropology and
Human Rights and a Master of Arts from the University of Pennsylvania in
Psychology. Why am I telling you this? I have also lived, worked, and traveled in
over thirty (30) countries and some of my work experience includes two (2) of the top
law firms in New York City. I worked with a paralegal. I have interned for the
United Nations and have done a bunch of other stuff. I have chosen to make Kaua`i
my home because I think there is no other place on Earth like this. The beauty and
abundance of the land is unparallel. We know this. Look at the Na Pali Coast,
Secret Beach, and every single beach. This island is stunning. The richness of the
community is also so unique. The values that we hold here in the State of Hawai`i
and on the island of Kaua`i in particular are sound and moral. I could live
anywhere in the world. I could have a job doing very many profitable things, but I
choose this island because it is so special. Those who have grown up here, lived
here, and others who have moved here see that. I think this issue— you notice I am
wearing purple. I am not taking sides. I stand for what is good and what is right. I
think all of us in our hearts know what that is. We know what is right. The
political is so personal. Protecting the Earth, human rights, and families are totally
intertwined. We cannot separate those issues. This Garden Isle is the Garden of
Eden. When you pass Bill No. 2491, you will not only be standing up for Kaua`i, but
setting an example for the rest of the world. I truly think the issues we have at
hand are no less than the issues that Rosa Parks or my former President, Nelson
Mandela, stood for. Progress is not easy. It is never easy and it is always messy.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 143 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Chair Furfaro: Your three (3) minutes are up.
Ms. Bloom: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Are there any questions? If not, thank you
very much. Next speaker, please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Josephine Bonaparte,
followed by James Trujillo.
JOSEPHINE BONAPARTE: Aloha, Council. Josephine Bonaparte for the
record. Would we really jeopardize the health of our people for a few jobs? I am not
sure if any of you saw the short documentary that has been going on and filmed on
the west side of Kaua`i with all the dead fish from the pesticides and the littering of
the plastic hoses from the irrigation ditches. If so, did that affect you in any way?
The harmful effects are taking place right now, killing our stream life, and now
going out into the ocean. Our own Mayor says he did not do his homework, yet he
was at our March in March in Po`ipu. He did not March, but he knew why such a
large group of fifteen hundred (1,500) people marching in the rain were all in
attendance. We sent our voices loud and clear. Just now, we marched up Rice
Street, four thousand (4,000) strong, and the Mayor knew why. He knew why we
were there but he still did not to his homework, or he is stalling for the Legislature
to take over and say it is a State issue. The County and its people lose the power
when it goes to the State where no one cares about us here on Kaua`i. We need to
stay community based for our own sovereignty. To me, we need to make our own
regulations as a community. For me personally, what is going on with the GMOs is
not farming. We can do much better. We can farm here and grow industrial hemp
and create plenty of jobs because of it like cloth, rope, hemp seed, and hemp oil.
Council, I ask you to please vote "yes" and pass Bill No. 2491. Mahalo.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next and last registered speaker is
James Trujillo.
Chair Furfaro: You are the last speaker, Jimmy.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: I am sorry, Chair. There is one more
speaker after him.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. You are second to last, Jimmy.
JAMES TRUJILLO: Thank you. James Trujillo for the record. I
hope you guys are having an enjoyable day. It is not as long as some might have
anticipated. I want to take the opportunity to talk to you all about the Bill in front
of us and our work that is needed to go forward. Going forward is what we want. It
is movement. I know folks have spoken about the deferral. I do not know what the
opportunity for compromise looks like, but I know two (2) months is a very long time
for some people. I think this is a process that we have engaged in so mahalo to you,
Councilmembers Bynum and Hooser, for introducing the Bill and getting moving
forward. I brought something here as a visual aid. You know what it is. This is a
piece of protection that beekeepers wear to protect them from the bees. As Klayton
Kubo from Waimea has asked us over and over again, "who is going to protect us?"
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 144 OCTOBER 15, 2013
The issue that I have is protection for our pollinators, people, the elderly, and the
infirm. This Bill represents the first step in the process like asking these questions.
Who is going to protect us? We, beekeepers have asked the State to look at this
issue for many years. I think the last time here, Representative Morikawa talked
about the Bill that she introduced with Representative Mina Morita. It did not get
out of Committee and did not even get a hearing. Things have changed since then.
This year, it got heard, passed, and got watered down. The State has a
responsibility and you guys are putting pressure on the State. Mahalo to you,
Mayor, for asking the Governor to do what he needs to be doing like taking
leadership. This is what we ask of you guys— taking leadership. Leadership
requires action, which is why passing this Bill is the first step in us taking action to
address the problems that are numerous. I have nothing more to say, but just ask
you guys to protect pollinators, people, our children, our kupuna, and our future.
Thank you.
(Mr. Bynum was noted as present at 6:03 p.m.)
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Are there any questions? May I
ask you a question?
Mr. Trujillo: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Sir, did you receive an E-mail from me today,
just yes or no?
Mr. Trujillo: Thank you, Sir. I did.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. At the request of Councilwoman
Yukimura, she had asked the previous speaker to be available. Could you call that
speaker?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: It is Klayton Kubo.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you, Klayton, for coming back. We
have a question from Councilmember Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you. Klayton, in your testimony
today you mentioned your son's pillow. I was just wondering when that occurred.
Mr. Kubo: Well, I would say maybe a couple of months
ago. I bought the pillow from Costco. I told him to open the windows, and then I
guess a few days went by and that pillow started turning brown. Who knows what
else is in the dust.
Ms. Yukimura: When we talked several days ago, you told
me that the dust problem has been reduced somewhat, but it is still...
Mr. Kubo: It has been reduced because of the lawsuit
and also because of this Bill, and that is the way I look at it. I go up on the
mountain, look down, and I see that their production plummeted. In fact, when this
Bill came out, their production plummeted. Now they are firing up again. That is
for sure.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 145 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Ms. Yukimura: Well, I think as I am told, this is the time
where they plant for the next season or something. I, too, went out to their fields
now, and they are doing crop cover and wind breaks so there is a clear effort to try
to stop the dust. I believe, like you, that it is because of the lawsuit and the
proposed Bill. But I am glad to hear that there is some movement in the right
direction, but we need to have more.
Mr. Kubo: We definitely have to get more.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Are there any more questions?
Klayton, if not, thank you for coming back for JoAnn's question.
Mr. Kubo: Thank you guys again. A two (2) month
deferral is pretty tough there on the residents.
Chair Furfaro: I am going make an announcement here and
I want to look towards the Staff. By our agreement, we should take a dinner break
at 6:30 p.m. I just want to know from members that if we get to a point where we
are introducing amendments, if you folks have your amendments prepared?
Ms. Nakamura: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Okay, I am going to see that we go to
7:00 p.m. as a decision by the Chair. We have two (2) more speakers?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: We have one last speaker.
Chair Furfaro: This is our last speaker before we go to the
Mayor.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Yes. The last registered speaker is Phoebe
Eng.
PHOEBE ENG: Good evening. My name is Phoebe Eng for
the record. I was not planning on testifying, simply because all of the things that I
have thought about this Bill, in support of this Bill, have been expressed in so many
ways over the last several months. I am here only to share information that I would
like to bring out of the anecdotal and into the factual. This is actually follow-up
information that comes off of a meeting that Vice Chair Nakamura and
Councilmember Mel Rapozo attended at KVMH with a number of lawyers. What I
have here...
Mr. Rapozo: Lawyers?
Ms. Eng: I am sorry, I stand corrected. I meant to say
"doctors." This is a follow-up communication that was given by one of the
Obstetricians who gave us some very, very interesting and compelling information.
Before I share this information, I do have to say that I am actually quite honored to
have worked with many of you on this Bill. I understand that you are trying very
hard to stay with the facts. This is a completely emotional and very heart
wrenching issue. It is very hard for people to stay in a place where you are really
trying to bring people, which is stay rational and stay logical. The facts will reveal
themselves when we have disclosure, and I think that is one of the things that the
community, overall, has wanted for so long. If that is something that you can put in
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 146 OCTOBER 15, 2013
the center of your amendments, that would be wonderful. Let me just share this
factual information from one of the Obstetricians that delivers babies. There are
about two hundred fifty (250) to three hundred (300) babies who are born in KVMH
every year. Two (2) months would equate to about fifty (50) babies born, so let us
just think about it that way when we think about a deferral. This is a follow-up to
one of the birth defects that had been described by one of the Obstetricians. I quote,
"Of particular concern are the incidents of serious cardiac malformations,
particularly those that result from early embryogenesis defects that occurred in our
population the last three (3) years. We have had five (5) major cardiac defects that
required early extensive surgical repair in San Diego the last three (3) years. The
babies had to be flown to San Diego; two (2) cases of transposition of the great
vessels, one (1) hypoplastic left heart, one (1) hypoplastic right heart with
heterotaxy, and one severe pulmonary stenosis." I read this because I hope there
are other viewing doctors that can give us more information and give you the kinds
of descriptions that I certainly cannot as a layman. I want to give this to people to
share it with the public.
Chair Furfaro: Phoebe, that was your three (3) minutes.
Can you summarize?
Ms. Eng: This is actually very telling if I can read the
last few sentences. "The transposition cases and hypoplasia cases are considered
defects that occur in early first trimester. While cardiac birth defects are the most
common birth defects, these particular types of lesions are rare. Recent Centers for
Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) statistics puts transposition at one (1) out of
three thousand three hundred (3,300) births, hypoplastic left heart at one (1) out of
four thousand three hundred forty-four (4,344) births, and hypoplastic right heart
at one (1) out of seventeen thousand (17,000) births. In the last three (3) years, we
have had about seven hundred fifty (750) deliveries. That gives us an incidence of
fifty-three (53) out of ten thousand (10,000) births for these four (4) defects...
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me, Phoebe, before you go any
further, let me do this because I want to be consistent and fair for everyone.
Ms. Eng: Absolutely.
Chair Furfaro: Is there any more information you can
expand on as it relates to this report?
Ms. Eng: I have one last sentence, which is, "National
US data shows an incidence of five point five (5.5) out of ten thousand (10,000)
births, so we have ten (10) times the national rate of those birth defects." Thank
you.
Chair Furfaro: Phoebe, may I ask you if we can get
something electronic or a hard copy of what you just read?
Ms. Eng: I know you have gotten a lot of E-mail over
the last few weeks. This was sent to you in Council Testimony at "kauai.gov" but I
will send it to you again.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. I still have two hundred eighty-
five (285) that I have not even read.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 147 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Ms. Eng: Yes, I feel your pain.
Chair Furfaro: They all came today.
Ms. Eng: Thank you so much.
Chair Furfaro: Phoebe, we have a question for you.
Ms. Yukimura: Phoebe, do you know where these babies
lived or where their birth mother lived?
Ms. Eng: Do I know where the birth mothers lived?
Ms. Yukimura: Yes, because I am assuming these are west
side babies, but we have heard that people from... actually, my Obstetrician is at
the Veteran's Hospital but I have not had any babies there. If there are babies who
came from the north shore or even from Wailua, that would be...
Ms. Eng: This is further questioning that could be
clarified in the EPHIS study in follow-up conversations with the doctor that shared
the information.
Ms. Yukimura: Or the doctor might even be able to give us
that information now before the study?
Ms. Eng: He is not in the room, but yes, I am sure he
would be willing to.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. It is kind of a basic question because
the assumption is that these babies are from the west side or close to places where
the seed company exposure would be.
Ms. Eng: Right. Well, that is more information that
we would need.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. That is the last of our speakers. This
is the absolute last call to anyone in the room here because once I call the Mayor up,
then we are going to go into the decision process. If not, Mayor, would you like to
come up and address the Council? Mayor, first of all, before you begin to speak, I
want to reiterate how much I appreciate you being here with your Staff for the day.
Thank you very much.
Mr. Carvalho: Thank you. Aloha, Councilmember and
Council Chair. It has been a long day. I appreciate the discussion and all the
hearts and souls speaking their mana o, sharing their thoughts, concerns, fears,
emotions, passion, and aloha; all of it, and just uncertainty on the discussions that
have been taking place for a while. I appreciate, of course, being here and our team
members ready and willing to come forward, speak, and provide information. We
have a really good, solid team in place who is very knowledgeable and intelligent
people who help me and assist me in many of the things from this issue to potholes,
to transportation, to access, and to beaches. There is a whole menu of things. I am
not making excuses, but they are all critical issues, but for this particular
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 148 OCTOBER 15, 2013
discussion, I have been trying my best to figure out and educate myself which leads
to my next topic of discussion. "How does the Mayor not know?" I have heard that
numerous times today. I just want to clarify that I do know. I have been out. I am
a "hands-on" kind of Mayor. I like being out with the community, hearing and
asking questions. I may not have read some documents that Councilmembers asked
me if I did. I am not going to sit here and lie that I did, but I did sit through
numerous hours and hours of testimony, and when I did finally read it— thank you,
Councilmember Hooser, for sending a whole binder over. I did look through that
and a lot of it was discussed during those sessions. I have heard it, believe me. I
have been out there, standing in the middle of Manokalanipo Park, how some
people have talked about, just to understand and asking people face to face, man to
man, woman to woman, me and whoever... and children, just to hear and
understand. I am not going to go any further in that and do not tell me I do not
know because I do. It is a very emotional part for me as Mayor, trying to figure out
how we are going to manage this and come up with something that is going to
benefit all people. My heart is with the people right here. My heart is with the
working men and women who work the fields every day. We have to figure that out,
too. What is that area? How do we manage that? How do we keep them safe? How
do we hold people accountable as leaders, the eight (8) of us right here in this room;
how do we do that? I think I have taken on responsibility to ask and to educate
myself along with an awesome team, who I can call upon any time and they can
come up here and read every single communication that is coming because they
have to, and they inform me and red flag me on some of the key areas which is a
great thing because it is impossible sometimes. In this particular discussion, I
really wanted to express to the people who are saying that I am totally clueless— let
me tell you something; I am not. I can hold a conversation with any of you based
upon the information I have gotten. I admit that I have not read everything, but I
have my E-mails coming in, too, late at night when I have to sit and understand,
and hear Alexander Wilhelm not wanting to come back to this island, amongst
everything else.
Regarding the Bill, there is a magnified version of the Bill which kind of
started and the process for the people watching and listening— there is a process in
place. The bigger version... the original version— we were here, not me personally,
but our Public Works team was here, and every step of the way was to look at the
Bill, look at the discussion, and see how I can be an awesome manager and CEO of
these wonderful islands of Kaua`i and Ni`ihau, and ensure that I have all of the
resources and people that I need to surround myself with to make it happen. In
that larger discussion, our Public Works teams, just as an example, came forward to
the County Council and shared some of the personnel and how we would have to
structure our operations to really address that first, bigger, and magnified version.
Then we went to the current version, which came to me two (2) weeks ago, and I
sincerely say that I have been reading it as best I can throughout the entire process
but people have to understand the final version... I was surprised to see it was in
Economic Development now, who is responsible for managing. It may be simple to
some people, but I take the simple things is really complicated sometimes. To best
manage what people are saying we are going to be doing, I am not going to set
ourselves up to fail. I want to be successful, not only for me, but all of us. If I am
responsible for managing pesticides, buffer zones, and what have you within the
current Bill, then I want to make sure... that is why we came back. I was invited
back and I requested to come back and present to the council not only why we could
not do it in this current way, but offered solutions and areas that we could talk
about, which led to the possibility of a deferral. The deferral was not that I did not
support the Bill. I support buff zones and disclosure. I have said that numerous
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 149 OCTOBER 15, 2013
times. It is how to get to what is the right fit to address the overall issue. That is
why I wanted more time because I feel strongly, with my capabilities as Mayor, to
connect and develop strong relationships and try to hold people accountable. If you
look at the Bill itself, without going into details, it takes our Staff and our
responsibilities to different levels where it is unknown. I wanted to see if I could
direct the responsibility to the right parties, whether it would be the Department of
Health or the Department of Agriculture. We will take our responsibility. What
can we give as a County in the bigger picture and set a model? I want the world to
know we on Kaua`i and Ni`ihau work things out and we are not fighting and
arguing. We have a major issue that is of concern to a large number of our
community. This whole island is talking about it. How do we, not the red and the
blue, but come to some understanding and move forward? That was my reason for
asking for two (2) month deferral; not because I did not support it. I wanted to
make sure that if it was going fall under the County of Kaua`i, the Mayor, and his
team, that we have all of the right resources, and should somebody call with
concerns or misunderstandings that we have the resources in place. We gave you
that information, Councilmembers. We gave you our understanding of what it
would take. Some of our people are saying, "It is just as simple as one position or
two (2)." It is not simple. It is complicated sometimes, so we need to be sure. I am
not going to set us up to fail. I have gone there with some of our other initiatives, so
I just wanted to understand and get firm on what we needed to do to make it right.
That is the Bill part. The buffer zones, the disclosure, and the study—we are there.
It is how to bring the parties to the table to discuss what the right operational fit is
to make it work so people are not fearful and they know that if they want to find out
about "Field 667," they can go to the website that says "Field 667 was worked on
this particular day or this particular time," or however it is done.
Anyway, that is my own overall piece. I think the study is a good thing and
we talked about that, but it is how to manage it and work it. There are a number of
people who work the fields who are fearful of losing their jobs. I will say that
upfront. I have talked to them. What is the plan for that? I want to work on that.
I want to work with all the people who took time out of their busy days to come and
testify and see how we can address that. That is my job as Mayor to figure out how
to find that balance and address the needs of the people so they are not fearful.
That was my whole overall intent of this deferral.
The last thing is the legal part. There was all of this discussion today. The
amended version— I did say in my last discussion that I did put a communication in
to the County Attorney to get a legal... I want to see the most recent legal opinion
based upon the amended version. That is another part that I need time to look at
and understand— "we." At the end of the day, I do not want to be left open with all
of these lawsuits coming our way. If we can work it out with all of the parties, the
State Department of Health, the seed companies, the workers, our friends, and all
of us— I see that. That is why I requested a two (2) month deferral. Since then, I
have talked to— in fact this morning, with things just happening, I did submit a
communication to our County Council from Mr. Kokubun. Since then, our Board
Chair indicated that they intend to implement voluntary buffer zones and pesticide
use disclosures with the companies impacted by Bill No. 2491 by the end of this
month. You can laugh and giggle, but I see that as progress. It may not be enough,
but I have it. I spoke with him because we need to move to the next piece. I have
that. By the way, instead of two (2) months because of this movement and some of
the commitments and discussions that are happening, I am even looking at getting
down to one (1) month deferral because of the recent discussions that have taken
place with the Department of Agriculture. I want people to understand that I am
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 150 OCTOBER 15, 2013
not deferring just to defer. If it is not going to produce any positive outcomes for all
of us to understand it better, then so be it. If it is going to give me, as Mayor, the
chance to really dissect everything and make sure that if George Costa is going to
be responsible, then he can be responsible in a way that is under his jurisdiction or
George Costa will have to refer this to the right party because we have a
commitment around the table through an moa or some kind of written
understanding and take it to the next level. That was my purpose and reason for
the deferral. Now if the deferral goes, it goes. I was hoping that because of the time
needed and trying to take the responsibility and make sure that our team members
understand— because this is not just a walk in the park; this is a very serious issue
for our island. That was my reasoning. Again, before I close, I know I am going on
and on and everybody wants to go home, but I appreciate the discussion— hearts
and souls, we are there. "How does the Mayor know about it?" I know. I am
meeting with Andrea Brower tomorrow just to sit and talk with her. I have talked
to Fern. I am trying to figure out who, how, and where everybody is going.
Anyway, so that is happening. Then, of course, the Bill itself— that is what I was
talking about from last week and I am talking about what is written before me?
What is our responsibility in this Bill? That, I wish I knew, was Economic
Development, so we sat and talked about it. That is why we came back. Okay,
enough already.
Finally, the legal part of it. How do I assure that the legal part— again, I put
in a request to the County Attorney for his legal opinion. I am waiting for that, too,
let alone making sure that we have the parties around us who are willing to talk
and come to the table, and that is my style. That is how I choose to operate and I
would include our Councilmembers as we move forward. To say that I am not in
tune— sorry. To say that I do not know what happens— sorry because I know.
That is why I have been here. I have sat here just to listen to very interesting
conversations, and also very emotional. I know the hearts and souls that are here,
like I said. At the end of the day, a decision has to be made, and that is why I am
asking for that time for us to really dissect it and look at the overall picture. Thank
you for your time. Mahalo and we will leave it at that.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you, Mayor. I am not sure if I am
going continue with meeting until we can get some decorum downstairs.
Mr. Carvalho: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: We are not taking any more public speaking.
Mayor, we have some questions for you from the Council. We might as well take
the dinner break. We are going to take the dinner break on the regular scheduled
time. We have rules that we have to follow. We are required to give our Staff a
break at 6:30 p.m. We will come back and work on the Bill.
There being no objection, the meeting recessed at 6:29 p.m.
The meeting reconvened at 7:39 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: Our public testimony period is closed. For
the Mayor, did members have any questions? Mayor, may we ask you to come up
again? JoAnn, are you ready?
Ms. Yukimura: Mayor, I want to also thank you for being
here all day today and for your concern about enforcement because that is your
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 151 OCTOBER 15, 2013
kuleana. It is right that you be concerned about how you would enforce any bill that
looks likely to pass this Council. You have asked for the delay, and my question is,
what is your desired outcome from the delay? What is it that you hope to see at the
end? It is one (1) month, right?
Mr. Carvalho: Yes, it is one (1) month. Like I said, we got a
communication back from the Department of Agriculture, Mr. Kokubun, who plans
to have a program in place by the end of the month. I have that in writing and it
was my hope to bring all the key leaders to the table because if the Bill passes
tonight, I just want to be prepared that we will be responsible for that. I was
hoping that we could get some healthy dialogue and get the right people to the table
and really understand everybody's role. If the State is the responsible part of this,
then they should be held responsible. If I am responsible, I am responsible, but we
do it in a collaborative way and help the people understand that these are the roles
and responsibilities that are before us. That is what I know and that is what I want
to do. We said two (2) months and now we are down to one (1) month because of
what took place just today. I feel that we can pull the key leaders together.
Ms. Yukimura: Is it your intention to secure the kind of
protection that the Bill, as amended, would provide? Will you be advocating to the
Department of Agriculture the kinds of provisions that are in the Bill?
Mr. Carvalho: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: You will. If the Department of Agriculture
does not agree or cooperate with those kinds of protections at the end of one (1)
month, will you be willing to support a bill similar to this Bill before us? There
might be some smaller changes but the basic provisions would be disclosure and
buffers?
Mr. Carvalho: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: You are willing to support it, which means
that would you be willing to say that you would not veto it at the end?
Mr. Carvalho: Yes, after that one (1) month period and we
had the chance to sort through all of the discussion pieces and put it on the table. I
just feel strongly that we are able to do that.
Ms. Yukimura: If we are not able to do that come the end of
one (1) month, and there are four (4) votes to pass it on the Council, then you would
either sign it or allow it to go into effect without your signature and you would not
veto it, so as to require five (5) votes to override?
Mr. Carvalho: At the end of one (1) month you said?
Ms. Yukimura: Yes.
Mr. Carvalho: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: I know you said you had legal questions of
the County Attorney, as we have had, and I expect that he will be briefing you?
Mr. Carvalho: Yes.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 152 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Ms. Yukimura: Right now, it is just an opinion that has come
to us as his client so he is not technically able to share it with you, but if you make a
request, he can give you the opinion as his client. Okay.
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me, do we have music in the audience
somewhere? Is that somebody's phone ringing? Please step outside to take care of
that. Thank you. Sorry for the interruption, Mayor. Please continue.
Mr. Carvalho: Just to clarify your question, at the end of
the month, the Bill will be in its same form?
Ms. Yukimura: It would similar. I do not know. We might
find ways to quote "improve it."
Mr. Carvalho: I just want to clarify that we understand it.
Ms. Yukimura: It would be the judgment of four (4) people
on the Council to pass... whatever the Council passes.
Mr. Carvalho: It will be in somewhat...
Ms. Yukimura: I am imagining it would be somewhat like
this Bill. For example, Council Vice Chair and I have some amendments that fine
tune it, but I do not think it changes it dramatically. Of course, that would be
judged today.
Mr. Carvalho: As long as we are all on the same page that
it will not be something totally different and foreign. If we are in the same arena,
have an understanding, and the commitment is there to assemble this group of
people and at the end of the one (1) month period, then we will take it from there.
Ms. Yukimura: Because you and I are both aware that in one
(1) month, Council Vice Chair will not be on the County Council.
Mr. Carvalho: Right.
Ms. Yukimura: We do not know who will be, but I personally
do not want this issue to be the sole issue by which we choose the seventh
Councilmember, so I would like to hinge on four (4) votes that are here tonight. If
you do not veto it, we will not need five (5).
Ms. Yukimura: If I veto it, you would need five (5)?
Ms. Yukimura: Yes. If there is any possibility you are going
to veto it...
Mr. Carvalho: I just say that with knowing that is the
process and that is the option and all of that stuff, just so we are all on the same
page.
Ms. Yukimura: Exactly. I guess I just want to hear your
opinion about what is the best way to settle the legal issues? I am concerned and it
has been an issue for the Council that some people feel the legal issues are so clear
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 153 OCTOBER 15, 2013
that they will not vote for the Bill. Some of us are saying that the legal issues are
unclear. There is a possibility we might not be held to be legal by a court, but we
feel the best way to settle it is to go to court and have "Mohammed speak," so to
speak, or the actual deciding entity to speak what the law is rather than us to
assume either way what the law is.
Mr. Carvalho: It is my hope that maybe we do not have to
go to court and that we can work it out and get the right people. I am just saying
my side. I know there are legal ramifications and legal opinions that I still look
forward to seeing.
Ms. Yukimura: How do you see us avoiding legal
determination?
Mr. Carvalho: I am just saying that is my hope that we can
come together and come out with some kind of compromise that will benefit all and
hold whoever is accountable, accountable. If it means some kind of MOU for now as
we move towards the next steps because it is within this one (1) month period, then
that is what I believe we have been talking about and I look forward to that kind of
discussion.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay, but Mayor, the way that seems to me
is that you are thinking that we will not need a Bill and I am not sure anybody has
confidence in putting solely in the Department of Agriculture.
Mr. Carvalho: Correct. That was my opinion.
Ms. Yukimura: I was thinking that we might avoid a legal
overturn by having an MOA and a cooperative agreement with the Department of
Agriculture, but we would have to go to court anyway by having the Department of
Agriculture in the law and with the cooperative agreement that we could avoid the
court's conclusion that there was preemption, but I am presuming that we go to
court.
Mr. Carvalho: I look forward to the legal opinion, too.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. I think that is all I have. Thank you
very much for your straightforward answers.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Bynum, and then Mr. Hooser.
Mr. Bynum: Thank you very much for being here, Mayor.
I want to take this time to make a few comments about the last couple of meetings
and then ask some questions. The first thing I want to say is that I sincerely, very
much appreciate you being here. I appreciate you being in Po`ipu. We were both
there in the rain. I appreciate you being at the Mana March all day listening. I
appreciated Gary and Beth being there. I agree with almost everything you said
when you were here before. You are the Mayor of this island and it is your kuleana.
Everything that you have brought before the Council is logical and appropriate for
you to do as a Mayor. I said that last time, but what came out that was I was
disappointed that you did not know a few key facts. I think what my statements
were last time and what they are this time is that I very much support the
leadership you are showing by being here. For those who have not been engaged in
Kaua`i politics, this is unprecedented for the Mayor to sit through this many County
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 154 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Council Meetings and sit here and exchange dialogue, and it shows leadership. I
admire it very much.
I disagree with your position that we need to defer the Bill and so I will ask a
few questions about that just to clarify, I think, the way JoAnn has tried. First of
all, you agree that there are at least four (4) members and I can assure you a fifth,
myself, who support at a minimum the Bill that passed out of Committee. There
may be amendments tonight but recognizing that, I have no faith that some
voluntary plan that we have— some of us are purview to and others are not, is
going to result in the outcomes that you are hoping for. I want to be very specific.
Notification means "prenotification." So someone can go to a website and say, "Oh,
this is what they are going to spray when and where," so as a citizen they can
choose to avoid it. What I heard from the Governor, which all I have heard, is a
press release that said, "Oh, we want them to disclose the aggregate amounts."
That is after the fact and that is not specific. That kind of specificity that is in our
Bill. Reasonable buffer zones— his statement said we are going to ask for voluntary
buffer zones around schools and hospitals. That is inadequate if it does not include
homes or people living, sleeping, and breathing. It is inadequate if it does not
include parks and areas where people congregate on a regular basis. I will be
flabbergasted if the provisions that are in this Bill, without any further
amendments, are included in this. I am certain they will not be. Everything you
are doing is what I want my Mayor to do. I appreciate that kind of analysis, but let
us keep it to dialogue, please. If this body were to pass this Bill today, I hear you
making a commitment to fulfill your responsibility. I have said publically that I
though Public Works was a better place to put it so that is why it was not there in
the Bill. I have faith in the leadership in both those Departments.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Bynum, I need a question for the Mayor.
Mr. Bynum: Those are the questions, Mayor. Does it
include prenotification, adequate buffer zones around homes and parks as well as
schools and hospitals? Is that your expectation of the Governor?
Mr. Carvalho: That is why I would want to include all of
this materials and suggestions into this discussion. I think we can come up with a
good, solid understanding of what needs to happen. Who is responsible? I am not
saying "no" to buffer zones and "no" to disclosure, and all of that. I just want to
make sure that we are in an arena where we can work it to benefit the people, of
course. Of course, we do not want to shut any companies down overall, any
business period on the island. We want to see how we can help people, but they also
have to understand their role and how it affects what they do on our island.
Mr. Bynum: I guess I will close with this question
because you brought it up, but is it clear to you at this point that if this Bill passed
in its current form or even with five hundred (500) feet buffer zones would not put
these people out of business? It would not cost anybody their jobs. That never was
the intention. What if they lost ten percent (10%) of their usable land, and it will
not be that much at all— do you understand that jobs are not going to be lost and
that was not the motive of this Bill?
Mr. Carvalho: Let me just say this; I am going to disagree
with you with the information that I have and the possibility of that happening and
the fear on that side of the fence of people losing their jobs and companies folding.
With this side of the fence, we have the medical side, which is validated, too.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 155 OCTOBER 15, 2013
However, I just want to make sure we do not forget that there is this other side that
could cause major disaster and friction in families because of that breakdown in the
family without... that is all they have. I want to make sure that the families who
are working in the fields, as well as here and whatever employment they are on the
island, tourism, that they continue to work. There is a commitment that they are
not going to lose or there is a commitment that they have an opportunity to have
something else solid because that is all they have for some of them. That is my
pitch on that... my understanding. I just want to make sure that when we come out
with whatever we come out with, it is well thought out and I can provide the
support with my hat on, and we can hold everybody else accountable. I feel like I
can do that, but I just need the time.
Mr. Bynum: Yes, I acknowledge that fears about losing
jobs are real and serious for people. I do not believe that will be the outcome and if
it is, that will be the companies that made that decision because the provisions of
this Bill will not keep them from continuing. The last part is that of course we want
everyone to work and have a viable economy. Thank you very much for being here.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Hooser, you have the floor now.
Mr. Hooser: Thank you, Mayor, for being here. Just so I
understand; I am a little slow on the take tonight. I believe I heard Councilmember
Yukimura ask you what you intended to accomplish, and I believe you said a
commitment from the Department of Agriculture or from the State to essentially do
what is in Bill No. 2491. Is that what you said? To implement the provisions...
Mr. Carvalho: That is what I would like to do and get close
to that or whatever is in that Bill.
Mr. Hooser: Is that your objective?
Mr. Carvalho: Yes, that is something that we could work
out and have their say and understanding in how we would manage that.
Mr. Hooser: The Director of the Department of
Agriculture, one (1) month ago, sent me a letter that says the Department of
Agriculture has no plans to promulgate new rules in response to Bill No. 2491. The
Director of Agriculture, when he was a State Senator is the only democratic State
Senator to vote with reservations on the Bill to protect Waimea Canyon
Intermediate School with buffer zones eight (8) years ago. He was the only
democratic out of twenty-three (23) at that time to vote with reservations on that
Bill. I have looked in my own experience with eight (8) years in the Senate and
looking back recently, I have never found one instance where the Department of
Agriculture testified in support of any pesticide or GMO bill to increase regulation.
I did not find any instance of the Farm Bureau doing that or the Hawai`i Crop
Improvement Association. Never have they ever supported any increase in public
protections for pesticides and GMOs. That is the lens I am looking at, so I admire
your confidence, but I have a very difficult time believing it. The Department of
Agriculture does not have the legal authority to put into place the provisions that
we have. They cannot pass law. They cannot pass rules like that. All they can do
is to negotiate a voluntary agreement. You are, I guess, familiar with that.
Correct?
Mr. Carvalho: Yes, I am.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 156 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Mr. Hooser: The rule making process is at least one (1)
year. They can do an emergency rule making process for a forty-day (45) day
period, but they cannot just snap their finger at the Governor and his cabinet and
make these things happen, no matter how well-intended they may be. It takes a
legislative act or rulemaking process which takes some time. Again, I appreciate
your good intentions. You heard the testimony earlier from Ms. Eng on KVMH
doctors. Bottom line with that testimony is that twenty (20) babies are born every
month in that hospital, and those doctors who have been practicing there seven (7),
eight (8), or nine (9) years and deliver those babies believe that there is ten percent
(10%) the national average of birth defects. You talk about fear... I am hoping that
they are wrong.
Mr. Carvalho: Me, too.
Mr. Hooser: I am hoping that they are wrong, but if they
are right, every month another twenty (20) babies are ten percent (10%). I am
hoping that they are wrong, but every delay— and that is just one part of the health
impact. If they are not wrong, there are all the other health impacts that are
happening or could be happening. I believe, as I have said before over and over
again, the urgency is paramount. The Governor's letter also mentions only
restricted use pesticides, not general use pesticides. Just so I am clear, your intent
would be to have the State basically mimic the provisions that are in Bill No. 2491?
Mr. Carvalho: It is my hope that whatever is the
responsibility of the Department of Health, Department of Agriculture, and the
County of Kaua`i that we all look at the whole picture collectively. Councilmember
Hooser, as I said before, I believe it is based on relationships. You can pick up the
phone, call, and say, "We have a major issue and we need to talk about this. How
do we move forward?" Because I believe, like everybody is saying, that this is going
to be a model for the whole world to see. I would hope that this model would be that
we in Hawai`i, on Kaua`i especially, are able to work it out and bring people
together. I feel that whatever happens here will just happen everywhere else, I
would think. It is my hope... if I may, I am going to read this because I want to.
This is to Chair Furfaro and Councilmembers. Today, I just want to do this.
"Mahalo for allowing to us make a presentation to you last week regarding the
operational impacts of Bill No. 2491, which included our suggestions for improving
the current draft along with a request for deferral for two (2) months. The deferral
is requested so that we could work with the State Department of Agriculture on
shared implementation of the Bill. Since then, I have spoken to the Board of
Agriculture Chair, Russell Kokubun, and he has indicated that the intent to
implement voluntary buffer zones and pesticide use disclosure with the companies
impacted by Bill No. 2491 by the end of this month. Because of this positive
development and the clear regulatory authority of the State in these matters, we
feel that it is prudent to defer action on Bill No. 2491 until the terms of such
agreements are disclosed. We feel that a minimum of one (1) month is prudent."
This is just one example of trying to get something back from the State. Now where
it goes within this month's period, I plan to take it to the next step. Like you
mentioned before in many discussions, Councilmember, in budget discussions you
talked about management like managing your Departments; managing Planning
and managing Parks. I want to manage and understand what I need to do to
manage and what resources I need, so we can make things happen if it goes either
way.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 157 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Mr. Hooser: May I continue?
Mr. Carvalho: Yes.
Mr. Hooser: I appreciate you reading the letter. Your
request to the Department of Agriculture was for them to work with "shared
implementation of the Bill." What they said they are going to do is implement
voluntary buffer zones. That is not shared implementation of the Bill; that is
voluntary buffer zones. It is not us passing the Bill and they helping us implement
it. First of all, this Council is poised to, as you said, "be a model." I do not know if
you heard BASF...
Mr. Carvalho: The Council and the Administration working
together; that is what I am saying.
Mr. Hooser: I am hopeful that the Council will take the
first step and then the Administration will join us. Frankly, everybody else is a
little bit late to the dance. We have been working on this for months, if not one (1)
year. The Governor shows up three (3) weeks ago. Kokubun shows up ten (10) days
ago. I will take full credit for this Council and this community starting this and
taking it all the way to this step. I appreciate the help from everybody. It does not
preclude us from working together. My vision is that we pass this Bill tonight, and
then you and I, Councilmember Kagawa, Councilmember Rapozo, the Council
Chair, and the rest of us go to Honolulu and meet with the Governor and Director
Kokubun and work with them to do the funding, inspections, and their part of it.
We do our part of it and then we have it even better. Earlier, the seed company
representatives said his biggest fear is that we were going to set an example for
other communities to do this in other places. I think you just said that you would
like to set an example and I would, too. That is what I would like and I would reach
out to you and ask you if we pass this Bill tonight, will you support this Bill and
then work with me and the other members of this Council to work with the
Governor and Director Kokubun to make this the best that it can be together with
Council and State action?
Mr. Carvalho: Let me say this. The Bill came from you,
Council, to me, Mayor; Administration. I looked at the Bill. I dove into the Bill and
figured out what we needed to do and what resources we needed. I am willing to
take what I have before me first and give me that chance now because you folks
said you went through all of your deliberations. I had to wait until I got the final
written draft before me. Discussions took place all over the place and I just want
people to understand that on Tuesday, two (2) weeks ago, I got it in front of me. I
acted on that written document. In that written document, I took it, and then went
and tried to develop these discussions, and that is where I am at right now. That is
my responsibility and it is in my court, not to say that we are not going to team up
later, Councilmember. That is where I am at now and that is why I am asking... I
have the opportunity, I feel, to take it to the next step right now. Once we get
through this timeframe— and then, yes, let us come together because you have gone
through many discussions. Like you said, you tried to reach out to the State.
Great. Now I have this before me and I am doing what I need to do to get the right
people at the table to address this, and then we will come together with the final...
whether it is a MOU or whatever.
Mr. Hooser: If we choose not to defer and choose to pass
it into law tonight, would you then go with us tomorrow or the next day like I
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 158 OCTOBER 15, 2013
described and meet with the Governor, Director Kokubun, and the community for
that matter and say "how do we make this better and better? We have a Bill. We
need your support. We need the State's support." Would you do that?
Mr. Carvalho: I would look at that. I just have my own
questions that have not been answered yet. The problem here is that you had your
chance. I just want to say this...
Mr. Hooser: No, I am asking you if you would go with us
if we choose to pass this Bill tonight.
Mr. Carvalho: But I still have questions for myself, so I can
understand it. If you pass the Bill, which I am not saying "do not pass the Bill," it
automatically becomes County's responsibility; my responsibility, period. It is a
done deal. All I am saying is before you do that, give me that little time so I can get
more clarification on our side, and then with we go. That is all I am saying because
once the Bill passes it automatically becomes our responsibility, which I am not
saying that I do not want it, but I feel I need the time to work it.
Mr. Hooser: Six (6) months before the effective date is not
sufficient time?
Mr. Carvalho: Six (6) months before the effective date?
Mr. Hooser: If we pass the Bill tonight, you sign it
tomorrow, then you have six (6) months to implement the Bill. That is the way the
Bill is written.
Mr. Carvalho: Now you are talking about... we may need
more time. I just want to sort through that. I am not making excuses.
Mr. Hooser: Six (6) months is not enough time to sort
through it?
Mr. Carvalho: I am trying to work through that. I am not
going to commit anything right now— six (6) months, nine (9) months, or (3) three
months.
Mr. Hooser: Twenty (20) babies are born every month.
Mr. Carvalho: I am telling you that there are a lot of
statistics that I am totally familiar with as well, Councilmember. Do not start
throwing statistics because I understand that. I truly do. All I am asking is if I am
going to be responsible, like I said... I feel like I am repeating myself; I am sorry.
But that would be the reason why I need that time.
Mr. Hooser: Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Would anybody like to ask the Mayor
questions for the first time? If not, Mayor, I want to share something with you,
Mayor. I have not said a lot going through this process and I try to be a very good
listener. First of all, I want to thank Mr. Hooser and Mr. Bynum for introducing
the Bill. Secondly, I want to thank Mr. Kagawa and Mr. Rapozo for going to talk to
the Governor. Thirdly, I want to talk in terms of the work that Ms. Nakamura and
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 159 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Ms. Yukimura have put into this Bill. Everybody has been focused on their
stewardship of this island, and that is our kuleana. Along with you, we try to
implement these pieces. I have to say that I cannot, in my mind, going through as
many things that I have gone through— I introduced the Money Bill for us to
acquire Black Pot eight (8) years ago. We are still working with the State. We find
ourselves in a situation to manage coqui frogs. JoAnn and I have to introduce our
own Bill to take care of that. We got no relief from the State. I have been in
conference calls with the EPA with JoAnn. I have gone to Hilo to meet with
Kokubun about the Bill and the need to manage our bees in the proper way to make
sure that we get them tested, which is another issue. I find myself, right now with
the work that the two (2) ladies have done and the information that Ross and Mel
have brought back; for me, there is no logical reason to defer this Bill anymore.
Please, let us keep some decorum. I want to say that to you because you and I have
always worked well together. But we pass the Bill tonight and the reality is those
people who have said things to us about the legal question— maybe they file for a
declaratory judgment or maybe this gets resolved in the courts. But for us to
believe in all the work that we have done over the last seventy (70) days... and I
want to make sure you understand that I clearly know you will do your very best to
make this happen for the right reason, for the right people. I do not doubt you. My
concern is with the State. That is where I am coming from. Mayor, I want to tell
you that everybody on this Council body has worked very hard in the same direction
with you, and I do feel we can paddle together. This wa'a can go forward. I want to
make sure very much upfront that I will not support a deferral today. I needed to
tell you that because it is important that you understand my rationale.
Mr. Carvalho: If I may?
Chair Furfaro: Yes.
Mr. Carvalho: The only reason I would again request a
deferral is not that I am against it; I just need the time for myself to make the right
connections and information. That is why.
Chair Furfaro: Mayor, if you came to me and said "I need
three (3) more months at the end to implement it," then I would be open to the nine
(9) months, but I think we are at the point here that we need to make a decision
about the work and the contributions that have gone into this. This Bill is about
pesticides. I am in a completely different place with GMOs. I do not have the
science and the technology to know about those particular things. But I do feel that
as we go forward, the things that the two (2) ladies have worked out in the
amendments are doable for the pest control companies. I feel that the setbacks are
the right thing to do. I think the disclosure is the right thing to do. I feel that it is
also our responsibility now because it has taken us so long to get to this point. I
want to make sure between you and I, you understand where I am at and together
we are going to try to do the right thing.
Mr. Carvalho: Right.
Chair Furfaro: I think the time is right now. If the seed
companies are going to move us to court and get a declaratory judgment on us, then
let us find ourselves in court. Please understand.
Mr. Carvalho: I understand.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 160 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Chair Furfaro: If you need three (3) more months in the end
to get the right people in the right places, I am very much open to that, or if you
need some contract services to implement this until you get the right people. I want
nothing to come between you and I and the aloha that we have for each other, but
that is where I am at.
Mr. Carvalho: I really appreciate that. You know that we
can work together. My last statement is that my concern would be that is the right
place to put this responsibility in the Office of Economic Development? Answer my
question... not you personally, but I will just leave it at that. Is the place to put this
responsibility in the Office of Economic Development? I will leave it at that. That
is all I am asking, and to take it from there with all the responsibilities come... we
will work together.
Chair Furfaro: Mayor, you have copies of all of my
correspondence from the EPA to Senator Schatz? You have all of that?
Mr. Carvalho: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Thank you. Vice Chair, you have the
floor.
Ms. Nakamura: Mayor, I want to ask you a follow-up
question. If it is not the Office of Economic Development, is there another
Department that you would prefer to see it in?
Mr. Carvalho: To me, whether it is Public Works, Parks,
Economic Development, or wherever it ends up; I just want to make sure that we
have the right people in the right place with the right resources with the right time
to manage this thing in the right way, so we can make sure that we follow through
on our responsibility. At the end of the day, I am responsible. This is such a critical
issue not only for Kaua`i, but for the State and the world. It is not a park or
anything else. This is something that really as leaders, we have to work together
and that is my take on it. It does not matter where, it is "what" and "how" and to
assure that we have the resources.
Chair Furfaro: Does anyone else have a question for the first
time? If not, JoAnn, you have the floor for the second time.
Ms. Yukimura: Mayor, is it that you want time before a bill
passes because you feel you would have more leverage in making some proposals to
change the details of the Bill if the Department of Agriculture makes that a
condition of them helping with enforcement?
Mr. Carvalho: That would be my hope, yes.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. When you say "voluntary plan," does
it mean whatever the companies volunteer to do? Do you envision an agreement
that is enforceable by the parties who sign it, meaning the County and/or the State?
Mr. Carvalho: We would have to get strict guidelines in
place. I just want to make sure that we get the right parts in place.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 161 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Ms. Yukimura: When you say "strict guidelines," do you
mean specific buffer distances and so forth?
Mr. Carvalho: If it is buffer zones, one (1) person is saying
five hundred (500) and two hundred (200). What is the right distance?
Ms. Yukimura: Do you see there being some delineation of
what that will be and not just say "whatever buffers the companies feel is
appropriate for their particular situation?"
Mr. Carvalho: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes what?
Mr. Carvalho: It is not just left up to the companies
themselves to decide. I want everybody at the table to decide and what the best
safety is for the people, the workers, and the company. How does that match up to
the needs? I like the idea of the buffer crop you talked about. I do not know if we
are getting off the subject, but bottom line; buffer zones, disclosure, and the plan.
Ms. Yukimura: So you see some actual distances specified?
Mr. Carvalho: Yes. I know I can say this... some of the
companies already have buffer zones in place or the ones that I visited because I
wanted to get a good understanding of where it is at. I cannot tell you the exact
distance, but from Kaumakani School, I can see that there is a buffer from the
school to where the actual crops are. I do not know the distance now. We have to
look at all of that like what is already there, what is not there, how much more do
we need, and what kind of crop do we need? There is all of that and those are the
kinds of discussion I want to have with the key people so we can come up with a
good, good understanding. For example, "it is not one thousand (1,000), or five
hundred (500); it is seven hundred (700)." I do not know.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. It is a distance that is agreed to and
enforceable?
Mr. Carvalho: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. If you get the deferral, will you
include representation from the Council in negotiations with the Department of
Agriculture?
Mr. Carvalho: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: It is not just going to be your Office
negotiating?
Mr. Carvalho: I was just look at Chair Furfaro and we need
to keep this canoe going in the right direction. That is it.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. That is all the questions I have.
Thank you.
Mr. Carvalho: Thank you.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 162 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Chair Furfaro: I am going to call our meeting back to order.
This is the time for the Council to do work. I understand from the Staff that there
are some possible amendments. I believe Vice Chair or Councilwoman Yukimura
has a pair of amendments. Mr. Hooser, do you have amendments?
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Mr. Hooser: I will listen to the Vice Chair since they
worked so hard on this last time and we were so successful at it, I would like to talk
to those and then add discussion for mine and Councilmember Bynum's. I think it
worked well last time in terms of process, rather than throwing too many things
out.
Chair Furfaro: On that note, between the two (2) ladies,
JoAnn, are you going to speak first?
Ms. Yukimura moved to amend Bill No. 2491, Draft 1 as circulated, as shown
in the Floor Amendment which is attached hereto as Attachment A,
seconded by Ms. Nakamura.
Ms. Yukimura: Mr. Chair, may I have your permission to
explain these amendments?
Chair Furfaro: You have the floor.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you. We made some very technical or
housekeeping amendments, which we have not highlighted so I wanted to go over
the highlighted ones starting on page two (2). Actually, the two (2) colored ones are
just technical grammatical changes. Going down to the bottom of page two (2), we
have added a provision to clarify "intention of the County to collaborate with the
State Department of Agriculture to support implementation and enforcement of the
Bill." Then going on page four (4), we have added the definition of "crop" because
later on in the Bill, we are defining the buffers based on lack of crop or a commercial
crop. We feel that will be easier to enforce and thus, will require less technical
enforcement personnel. Then on page five (5), we have added the definition of
"ground cover" because we do want the buffers to have some kind of cover. We do
not want it to be bare, which would then create dust problems. We are saying no
crops except cover crops of some sort. Then on page seven (7), we have actually set
the threshold criteria for which companies this Bill applies to. We have done it on
a prior calendar year so that there is a record that applies prospectively. We have
also put the threshold of five (5) pounds or fifteen (15) gallons of any single
restricted use pesticide. This is to make sure that we are not including smaller
farmers because I think Councilmember Hooser said at the very beginning, it was
not the intention of this Bill to cover smaller farmers who have less land area and
the buffers would really affect them. Furthermore, they do not use any single
pesticide in these quantities, but if you start adding all of the pesticides they use
too, they might reach the threshold faster. We have said any commercial entity
that uses an excess of five (5) pounds or fifteen (15) gallons of any single restricted
use pesticide during the prior calendar year. All five (5) companies that are now
covered by the Draft 1 are still covered by this language. Then that is really all on
page seven (7).
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 163 OCTOBER 15, 2013
The next significant amendment starts at the bottom of page eight (8). In
questioning Councilmember Hooser about the intention behind the disclosure of
genetically modified organisms, it appeared to us that people mainly want to know
whether they are GMOs growing and what crops. If somebody is growing corn,
organically or otherwise, they know if it is GMO corn or GMO soy that is growing.
We have said that we want them to disclose the growing of genetically modified
organisms and that the description, as you see in page two (2), will be a general
description e.g., GMO corn or GMO soy. The next significant changes come in the
buffer zone on page nine (9), "Pesticide Buffer Zones." The changes to threshold are
the same changes we made in the thresholds for the application of this Bill. You
will see in (a)(1), we have changed "no pesticide may be used" to "no crop may be
grown," hoping that that makes the Bill more easily enforceable. Because no
pesticide of any kind may be used may be interpreted that no pesticide can be in the
buffer zone and that is not our intention. The buffer zone is actually supposed to
capture and be the place where pesticides can go, as long as it does not go outside of
the buffer zone. The buffer is supposed to be a buffer that protects people outside of
buffer zone. We have gone to no crops.
In paragraph number three (3), "no crops may be grown unless..." Sorry, this
is one about residences, "no crops may be grown within five hundred (500) feet of
any dwelling unless," and we have three (3) exceptions. The first is what we talked
about in the Draft 1, which is that there is an approved Soil and Water
Conservation Plan that explicitly— we had first "addresses pesticide drift on the
dwelling," but due to a testimony today, we said that "explicitly demonstrates no
pesticide drift on the dwelling." We want the plan to be rigorous to show no
pesticide drift based on the plan, and then the buffer would be one hundred (100)
feet. If it does not hit the dwelling at all, one hundred (100) feet should be good.
The second exemption is one that says if "the dwelling is owned by the landowner,
and occupied by the landowner or a family member of the landowner, and there are
no other dwellings occupied by third parties within five hundred (500) feet of the
landowner dwelling, then there shall be no pesticide buffer zone." This has been
requested by a major landowner. Basically, it is saying that they do not believe
there is a risk from the pesticide spraying and they are willing to bear the risk as
the landowner. Then (c) regarding a mature orchard, which in this case would
apply to just Kaua`i Coffee, but if there are other mature orchards of a similar
characteristic, they would also be covered. "The crops which grow in a hedge-like
manner creating a windbreak effect, if pesticide application occurs between crop
rows from a source no higher than two (2) feet from the ground, for the purpose of
eliminating weeds in the ground, then no crops may be grown within seventy-five
(75) feet of any dwelling. This came out of my personal experience of witnessing the
spraying of Kauai Coffee, which was a small tractor that went between twelve (12)
foot rows of very thick coffee trees. It had nozzles pointed downward that are no
more than two (2) feet high. They sprayed water to be sure everybody was safe in
the demonstration, so we could get up close and look at it. They sprayed water and
the hedges acted as windbreaks. The crop was so low that they sprayed in high
winds when they are not supposed to spray it, which is the worst case scenario,
which is good because I wanted to see how far it goes even when there is operator
error not following the label, and it did not go beyond twenty (20) feet in my
estimation. To say that there is a five hundred (500) feet buffer just does not make
sense. Furthermore, in a one hundred (100) foot buffer— they marked it out for me,
and on no crop within the buffer, they would have to pull out their coffee plants. I
believe there is protection in this exemption and that is the reason for the proposal
here. We were told that there are County, State, and Federal government agencies
that have authorized pesticide use for public health or safety purposes and we need
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 164 OCTOBER 15, 2013
to allow that. Then at the bottom, "Rulemaking," we have authorized the Office of
Economic Development to collaborate with the State Department of Agriculture.
Finally, the Ordinance is to take effect in nine (9) months after its approval
in order to accommodate the Administration in setting up the necessary
enforcement infrastructure, whether it is rules or personnel. That concludes the
amendments and we are open to any questions that you might have.
Chair Furfaro: Who made the motion?
Ms. Yukimura: I did.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. We have a motion by Councilwoman
Yukimura and a second by Vice Chair Nakamura. Mr. Bynum, you have the floor.
Mr. Bynum: Thank you very much for this work. My first
question is in Section 22-22.5, which is labeled "Pesticide Buffer Zones." In every
single instance where it says "no pesticide of any kind may be being used" is being
eliminated by the Bill and being replaced by "no crop may be grown." Should I not
be concerned that in a section called "Pesticide Buffer Zones," the comment or the
provision that "no pesticides of any kind may be used" is removed in every instance
in this section. I do not understand that, so that is my question.
Chair Furfaro: Would one the coauthors of this want to
respond to this?
Ms. Yukimura: I will try, Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Go right ahead, JoAnn.
Ms. Yukimura: You will see that in the first paragraph (a), it
says, "it shall be mandatory for all commercial agricultural entities that use"...
et cetera, "to restrict the growing of crops except ground cover to which no pesticide
is applied, and thereby restrict the application of all pesticides in the following
areas." Councilmember Bynum is correct in observing that we have changed the
nature of the buffer, at least in terms of how we have described it. The purpose is to
protect against pesticides, but the language is to make it easy to enforce. You do
not have to check whether pesticides are in the buffer zones because the original
language alone was "no pesticide use in the buffer zone." That alone is not a good
description of a proper functioning buffer because there could be pesticides in the
buffer, but that is the whole reason for the buffer that it does not go beyond the
buffer. No evidence of crops will make it so the people enforcing it do not have to
check about pesticide use in the buffer zone. They just have to check that crops are
not being grown there. Yes, I see some people shaking their heads. We are open to
discussion and dialogue about this, but we are trying to make this a functional Bill
and also a clear Bill. If you say "no pesticide use," somebody will argue that there
are pesticides in the buffer when actually, it is the role of the buffer to capture
these.
Chair Furfaro: Vice Chair, you may add to that.
Ms. Nakamura: I think we are thinking about ease of
enforcement. That is the main thing. If we are going to be hiring County
inspectors, our thought was that it is easier to measure the distance from the home
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 165 OCTOBER 15, 2013
and the field just by measuring where the crops are grown, rather than having to
measure drift or doing more technical analyses and testing that we may not be
initially equipped to do.
Mr. Bynum: From your response, it is like the one
hundred (100) feet has no pesticides, so you are assuming that drift does not happen
at all, even a few feet?
Ms. Yukimura: There will be no application of pesticides in
the buffer, but if there is application on the crop that is legitimately there, there
might be pesticide drift into the buffer, but the buffer is the one that is supposed to
take it, rather than the residents or the school. That is the intention. My thought
is if there is an experience is of pesticide in the school or home, that is a report to
the Department of Agriculture because they are qualified to test for pesticide drift.
If we find that pesticide drift is happening, then we have to change the buffer.
Ms. Nakamura: Just think about it. The problem stopped at
Waimea Canyon Intermediate School when they stopped growing the crops in the
five hundred (500) feet or six hundred (600) feet buffer zone. The idea is to not grow
the crops in that buffer zone.
Mr. Bynum: I appreciate this dialogue. The problems did
not stop. They created a buffer zone and we tested and continued to find restricted
use chemicals in the air. I do not want to have that discussion. My concern is why
could it not say "no pesticide use of any kind may be used or crops grown within the
five hundred (500) feet. It is the same outcome, but you have removed from the
pesticide buffer zone section the words you are going to restrict pesticide use, so I
would ask if we could just say both.
Mr. Hooser: I think what Councilmember Bynum is
saying makes sense. It does not affect the substance, but it certainly makes it a lot
clearer that no pesticides of any kind could be used. I would agree with that. I am
concerned that "no crops" is a larger impact on the landowner. Theoretically, the
landowners could plant some other kind of crop in there if not for this provision.
Without this provision, you have a buffer zone... you could plant avocados or you
can plant some other kind of plant that does not need pesticides, theoretically. I
understand the enforcement issues in terms that it is cleaner this way, but I do
have some concerns because by saying "no crops," it is a larger impact on those
owners. I could probably live with that. The other item of topic would be the
distances. We could go one by one. Again, I think parks are just as important as
hospitals, nursing homes, or daycare centers. The five hundred (500) feet for
parks— I am still not comfortable with the approved Soil and Water Conservation
Plan from the dwelling. I would prefer "property line," not from "the dwelling." It is
a lot easier to measure from the property line than from the dwelling. If your house
happens to sit closer or further away and different impacts, the property line would
be much clearer.
Chair Furfaro: If you are finished Mr. Hooser, I am going to
go back to Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Hooser: Sure.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Bynum, you have the floor.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 166 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Mr. Bynum: The language of both... in essence it would
read "no pesticides of any kind may be used or crops may be grown within..." and
just leave the language with both.
Chair Furfaro: I will let both of the ladies respond to you
since they are the coauthors. JoAnn?
Ms. Yukimura: Yes. I am not fully comfortable with this
either because of the impact on the companies. We have had some preliminary
discussions with them and they do not know of any commercial crop that can be
grown in the buffer zone without pesticides. They even had concerns about how
they are going to manage a ground cover crop. One option is mowing so they could
just mow. Yes, and grazing. They could have animals...
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me for an interruption. Mr. Hooser
and Mr. Bynum, I am getting feedback so please turn your mics off. Please
continue, JoAnn.
Ms. Yukimura: As to Mr. Bynum's point, you will see that in
buffer zone main paragraph (a), they would be restricted to growing crops except
ground cover to which no pesticide is applied. We are saying that they cannot apply
pesticides in the buffer zone, but used in the buffer zone is subject to interpretations
that, "Oh, there is drift in the buffer zone." We just thought it would be clearer to
say "no crops" and then "cover crops," but you cannot control cover crops with
pesticides. That is about the closest thing we would come. We are open to other
suggestions, but again, we are trying to think about ease of enforcement because
this County has no trained personnel in pesticide drift regulation and enforcement.
We can see inspectors who just come and measure with these fancy new devices of
the fact that there is no commercial crop within certain distances.
Mr. Bynum: JoAnn, is the answer no?
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me, I am going to let the other
coauthor add if she had any comments first. Do you have anything to add, Nadine?
Ms. Nakamura: No.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Mr. Bynum, you have the floor again
but you need your mic on.
Mr. Bynum: My first question was would it be acceptable
to leave both languages... and I am sorry, JoAnn, I did not hear an answer.
Ms. Yukimura: I tried to say that there are complications
with saying no use of pesticides in a buffer zone. I do not want to allow that
ambiguity to continue. You can still propose an amendment and see if the body
would accept it.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Hooser, the Chair recognizes you.
Mr. Hooser: I think I understand the word "use."
Paragraph (a) says "no pesticide is applied," so let us say "no pesticide of any kind
may be applied and no crops may be grown." It is the same operative word as used
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 167 OCTOBER 15, 2013
above; it is not "used," it is "applied." It accomplishes the same text with a little
more clarity. I think that satisfies your concern that drift might be called "use."
Chair Furfaro: Is there a response from the ladies for
Mr. Hooser's comment?
Ms. Yukimura: I do not see why it is necessary.
Mr. Hooser: Sometimes things are necessary to
accommodate the needs of other members, if it is not going to weaken the Bill. That
is my comment.
Chair Furfaro: Are there any further discussion?
Mr. Bynum: Yes. I had hoped to talk about the "no crop"
part but I was trying to do it one at a time. I like what Gary said, and the reason
would be because it is important to me. I am asking you. It does not change the
intent. I think it is important for that language to be in there and I am asking for
that concession.
Ms. Yukimura: I would like to go on and give it some
thought.
Mr. Bynum: May I ask about crops?
Ms. Yukimura: Yes.
Mr. Bynum: One thing we have learned from this process
is that our agricultural land is very valuable. If we are talking about passing a law
that says "you cannot grow anything valuable on our valuable agricultural land." I
never envisioned that people were not going to use their agricultural lands for
agricultural purposes. There are ways to grow things without using pesticides.
There is hand labor and there are alternatives. To say to Kaua`i Coffee that you
have to take out your trees— I am sorry, you have dealt with that with a special
provision for Kaua`i Coffee. I just cannot understand why we would say— and then
we are requiring them to grow something. If this is what it takes, I would support
this, but I believe that the regulation is not— you do not need a visual thing
because the companies keep very meticulous records. I do not believe that they will
purposefully manipulate those records. I am sorry if you think I am naïve, but I do
not think they will because they report that to the EPA and USDA. I just want to
make those comments. I just cannot imagine that we would say "you cannot grow
agriculture on agricultural land, but you have to grow some kind of a buffer crop." I
just do not understand why it is necessary.
Chair Furfaro: Is there any more dialogue before I call for a
vote?
Mr. Rapozo: I have a question for the either one of the
introducers. On page ten (10), (3)(C), when you talk about the mature orchard. The
buffer goes down to seventy-five (75) feet. I guess I am having a problem because
pesticide is a pesticide. The danger of a pesticide, whether you are at Kaua`i Coffee,
Waimea, or in the valley, it is the same. Yet, we are making concessions here for
certain people and (b), the landowner occupies the property and all of a sudden
there is no buffer zone. I am trying to understand the rationale for that. If, in fact,
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 168 OCTOBER 15, 2013
the pesticide hazards are driving this Bill or this amendment, how can we say that
for some people it is okay and for some it is not? I am struggling with that because
why should the landowner or the homeowner— I just do not see the difference
between mature orchard versus... I know you explained the nozzle shooting down
low to the ground and I believe that the seed companies have similar type of nozzles
in some cases, but what is the rationale for allowing some people to be exposed to
pesticides and not others?
Chair Furfaro: You may answer, JoAnn. Go right ahead.
Ms. Yukimura: We are trying to control for harm. In the
case of this spraying just for the weeds on the ground in a hedge-like environment,
the harm is not there because it does not go very far. The hedges act like a
windbreak. As far as I know, the corn company and Kaua`i Coffee spraying are very
different. I am scheduled to witness corn spraying this Thursday because I was not
able to do it beforehand. My understanding is that their rigs are higher and the
corn crop is much lower when they are young. They are young more often because
they are constantly rotating crops. They do not create the kind of windbreak effect,
so we were trying to make this... we are recognizing that one size does not fit all.
We are trying to tailor it to the harm. The harm is less when the spraying is as
described with Kaua`i Coffee. Now as to your question about the landowner, the
obligation is primarily to people, like I said, "somebody's right to swing their arm
ends where another person's nose begins." You have much more right to do on your
land what you want to, than you have to cause impacts to another. If the
landowner is willing to take the risk that indeed he feels that there is no harm from
the present spraying that goes on, there is more leeway to allow that than if he is
harming somebody outside of his property.
Mr. Rapozo: Including the unborn child of maybe the
spouse or the children on that property that have no control?
Ms. Yukimura: If there is proof to that, then we will increase
the regulation.
Mr. Rapozo: I am just trying to find the rationale, JoAnn,
because we are basing this on the safety and the hazards.
Ms. Yukimura: I am trying to give you the rationale. The
other example is the termite companies and the fact that homeowners invite
termite companies to come. If there is a third party harm here, then we have to
stop it. I do not know if that has been established yet, and so we are trying to
balance the lack of information against some information and the request from the
public to impose some of these restrictions. We are trying to create a balance and
we have provisions for a study that hopefully will make available much better data
and reliable data that we can then legislate upon.
Mr. Rapozo: One more, Mr. Chair, if I may?
Chair Furfaro: Go ahead.
Mr. Rapozo: The golf courses and the resorts are in very
close proximity to residences, whether it is in Princeville or Kiahuna. I actually had
some pictures made to show how close some of these fairways are to residences, but
there is no mention of that. I guess, again, why would we want not want to protect
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 169 OCTOBER 15, 2013
those residents or neighbors? Nowhere is that addressed in here. In fact, they are
not included.
Ms. Yukimura: I think you are asking a very good question.
I have not investigated how golf courses apply the pesticide. I am envisioning
backpack sprayers, but maybe not.
Mr. Rapozo: I can tell you that I passed Wailua Golf
Course this week and they had an antique sprayer. It was amazing what was
blowing from that sprayer. I do not know what they were spraying, but you could
see the mist coming and there are no residences around there. My point is that we
are not even addressing that at all. I have not seen any request for information on
the termite control companies. I have not seen any investigation or interrogation
regarding the golf courses or resorts. Not at all. I think that is a concern, for me,
anyway.
Chair Furfaro: JoAnn, do you want to respond to
Mr. Rapozo?
Ms. Yukimura: Yes. I think you are raising good points, but
I also know that the law does not... I think I know that the law does not require us
to address everything at once. Legislators have the choice and any of us could put
forward a bill that addresses golf courses or termite companies. That is where the
initiative of introducing a bill comes...
Mr. Rapozo: So this one was just for GMO companies?
Ms. Yukimura: This one is responding to a Bill that is before
us, listening to the testimony in terms of evidence and concern, and trying to
navigate an appropriate or wise balance in terms of what we know and what we do
not know, and trying to give protection based on incomplete information until we
get some more complete information.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: On that note, Mr. Hooser.
Mr. Hooser: I have a comment and also a process
question. We are talking about the amendments that are in front of us. I have a
number of suggestions that I would like to distribute and share with the two (2)
introducers and the rest, talk about some of that, and then perhaps we can take a
brief recess like we did before. Hopefully we can accommodate some of the
discussion here at the table, if that is okay with the process? I am going to start
with page one, if I could. Should I pass out what I have? Do you want to put what I
have up on the board?
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me, Gary. The Chair will recognize
the dialogue on the first amendment as recognized. We will continue after the floor
now recognizes Mr. Hooser and his amendments (which is attached hereto as
Attachment B).
Mr. Hooser: Yes. We can motion and second... do you
want to do that or do you just want to do this conversation on the same breath?
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 170 OCTOBER 15, 2013
•
Chair Furfaro: The same breath.
Mr. Hooser: Okay. I agree. Let us go to page two (2).
Page two (2) addresses— part of these suggestions are to strengthen it legally and
part of it is just for clarity. Letter (h) at the top there, just clarifies the pounds and
gallons. I checked with Staff to make sure we have pounds and gallons and not just
pounds as was there before. That is the top. Because the existing language
specifies the chlorine gas and the termites, it does beg the question "what about
these other two (2)?" So that last sentence explains the rationale of the three (3)
categories, "only agricultural operations involve the open air applications of large
amounts of multiple restricted use pesticides and general use pesticides in an
uncontained environment, over large areas of open land where windy..." That is
why the chlorine gas and the termite are not addressing that. I think legally, it
clearly shows the rationale of why we are focusing on what we are focusing on, and
what is now (h).
Ms. Nakamura: I think this is good. One amendment that I
would make is that under the County portion, the chlorine liquefied gas is for two
(2) Departments.
Mr. Hooser: For what?
Ms. Nakamura: For two (2) Departments; Water and
Wastewater.
Mr. Hooser: Okay. That is fine. You are the keeper of
this information. Since we are using your vehicle as the one, I am fine with that.
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me, I have a clarification. Did I just
hear you say that you would prefer it be their vehicle?
Mr. Hooser: I think that is the one on the table now and
these suggestions are...
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. I just wanted to get clarification.
You have the floor.
Mr. Hooser: For letter (j), I am not sure if "travel" or
"travels" was included in here. It is more of a housekeeping grammatical thing.
For letter (n) at the bottom of the page, I think the question is "what," not whether
or not GMOs are being grown because we know they are being grown. It is "what"
genetically modified organisms are being grown. Is everybody with me so far?
Page three (3) has nothing. Page four (4) there is nothing. On page five (5),
we have a definition for "nurse practitioner" which will be self explanatory later.
For the definition of "park," we added in "Federal Government." There may be
Federal parks or marine parks. It is just kind to cover ourselves with the Federal
parks, as well as State or County parks. On page six (6)0—just bear with me for a
second on this. We have a definition for "perennial streams," that comes from the
Department of Health rules that was recommended by Dr. Berg. We also have a
definition for "physician" and that will become clear in a second. On page seven (7),
we have a definition of "significant effect." "Significant effect" comes out of
Chapter 343. It is a universal definition on EIS planning. We are not doing an EIS,
but I think the definition is important. "Significant effect" means the sum of the
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 171 OCTOBER 15, 2013
effects and the quality of the environment, including actions that irrevocably
commit a natural resource, curtail the range of uses," et cetera. Then we have a
definition for "State waters." It is important to point out that State waters do not
include irrigation or drainage ditches that are used in agricultures. When we get to
our buffers later that I worked with Councilmember Bynum on, there is a provision
for all other State waters. The definition there, if you take a moment to read it,
excludes ditches, flumes, ponds, and reservoirs that are part of water pollution
control or the same that are solely used for irrigation and do not overflow into other
State waters. Most of this discussion is from Dr. Berg's testimony and
recommendations.
If you go to the next page, page eight (8). This is the mandatory disclosure of
pesticides. We add in similar provisions in terms of clarifying that it is year after
year. I think it is just a language difference. The original language and the original
Bill was a little fuzzy like the calendar year. I think we are approaching it the same
way here, but just different language. We are saying that if you use this during any
year, then the following year you have to disclose, so I think the intent is the same.
On number two (2), we add in "revocable permit holder." It was brought to our
attention that there are people who access these properties. I know hunters have
revocable permits to get on the property and back, so we put that in there as a
person who can entitle to a "good neighbor courtesy notice." Then we have a
provision, number nine (9), which I think is important that I should point out.
Basically, all of those notices are posted online and available for the public. That is
already there. They are being sent out on a regular basis, so this is just one small
step further where the Department consolidates this and makes it available to the
general public. The last sentence says "any licensed physician or nurse practitioner
shall be provided the disclosure information immediately upon request," basically
when they diagnose a person. Right now, the disclosure is weekly or something...
that provision number two (2), "good neighbor courtesy notices." This allows
physicians and nurses treating patients to say they need that information
immediately.
Chair Furfaro: There is a question from Vice Chair to you,
Mr. Hooser.
Ms. Nakamura: Is there a definition for "immediately?"
Mr. Hooser: I do not believe we added one in, but we
certainly could.
Ms. Nakamura: What is your idea?
Mr. Hooser: Like right away. If it is a nurse or doctor
trying to treat a patient, they should get it immediately, whether that it is within
four (4) hours, six (6) hours, or twelve (12) hours, I am open to that or whatever the
pleasure of the Committee is. I would think that if I was a doctor treating a patient
and I called Syngenta and wanted the information, I would want it as soon as
possible. We could change it to "the earliest possible moment" or something.
Chair Furfaro: JoAnn, you have the floor.
Ms. Yukimura: My concern is that these good neighborhood
notices may not even happen— I mean the spraying may not even happen. Some of
the companies were really concerned that at some time, depending on weather
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 172 OCTOBER 15, 2013
conditions, fifty percent (50%) of their projected or planned pesticide sprayings...
because these are "pre-application notices." They are saying "this week we plan to
spray on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday," but fifty percent (50%) of them may not
happen. You can envision a practitioner getting these notices and then having to go
back and ask "did this happen" or "did it not happen?" Or there will be people
getting mad that it did not happen and that the companies are trying to deceive
them. There are these issues that with the provision in the present draft, there
were concerns about this. I am thinking the reliable information for the
practitioner is the post-application spray notices. That is not in this paragraph; it is
in number three (3).
Mr. Hooser: Thank you, Councilmember.
Ms. Yukimura: That is available to everyone.
Mr. Hooser: Thank you for bringing that up. I would
suggest that we move that sentence to number three (3), but keep it "immediately"
or something like that because it is a post-application. "Spraying occurred, my
patient is sick, what did you spray?" It is post-application, but this post-application
is once every seven (7) days, right? A doctor should not have to wait seven (7) days
to find out how to test or treat their patient. Perhaps we could add that under (3)(a)
and we put some reference to the doctor. The doctors have said that they do not
know how to treat their patients because they do not know what is being sprayed. I
think the heart of it is really the health matters.
Chair Furfaro: JoAnn, do you have further questions?
Ms. Yukimura: We brought the post-application spraying
from annual to weekly, and we did that because at least some of the companies told
us that they reconcile their spray records weekly. They wanted to make sure that
what they have and what they used were accurate before they finalized the
reporting of it. They check with their applicator records and all of that. Because
they did that on a weekly basis, we thought it would be reasonable for them to
disclose on a weekly basis. I feel like we need to touch bases with the companies
about if we are going to make it more frequently, how they are going to do that
logistically because our effort was to not make it an additional burden than to what
they are regularly doing, but to make it useful information by its weekly frequency.
Mr. Hooser: Okay. I apologize for not making myself
clear. This is the situation where a doctor has a patient that got sprayed, got sick,
or there is some complaining and they want to treat this patient right away. This is
not regular reporting. I did not want to use the word "emergency" because we
would have to deal with a definition again, but this a physician or nurse
practitioner who needs the information to do their job. I am open to new language.
I thought that language was good. We could say within twenty-four (24) hours if
that makes "immediately" or "no later than twenty-four (24) hours," and place it
under (3). Maybe Vice Chair and the co-introducer can think about that and then
we could move on. You know what I am trying to accomplish and perhaps you could
work with the language a little bit.
Chair Furfaro: JoAnn, are you following up on that?
Ms. Yukimura: Well, I just want to say that we have to
involve the companies in this discussion. It may by be a select... that we do this
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 173 OCTOBER 15, 2013
weekly, public disclosure, and there be a special way for health practitioners to
make the request for certain things. To have daily disclosure to everybody is a
major thing. What I am saying is that we have to— it is a whole new ballgame as
far as... I am willing to work on it, but I am going talk to the companies to see what
their issues are.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Hooser, you still have the floor and I
hope when I break for thirty (30) minutes, you folks will be able to talk to who you
need to talk to.
Mr. Hooser: Thank you. Again, I am not making myself
clear and I apologize for that. This is not meant to ask the companies to do a daily,
weekly, hourly, or anything at all, but simply to say when a situation arises and
when a physician or nurse practitioner treating a patient needs to know what they
were exposed, they do not have to wait a week to get the report.
Chair Furfaro: Urgent or emergency care.
Mr. Hooser: Yes, thank you. Can we move on? The
bottom of that page is just an oversight, if you would, in terms of when it takes
effect. The way it is written now, it says no later than sixty (60) days following the
calendar year because there is going to be delay in implementation. This is at the
bottom of page nine (9); "except that the first report shall be due on date that the
ordinance takes effect," rather than wait a whole other calendar year to get the first
disclosure. It says sixty (60) days from the end of the calendar year, you have to
disclose your GMOs. That is the way it is written. Because this will not be
implemented until June or whenever, then we would have to wait until sixty (60)
days all the way around again. This says the first report is due upon taking effect,
and then after that they are due sixty (60) days after the calendar year. The
disclosure of the genetically modified organisms— you see there is more yellow. I
believe it needs more than just GMO corn or GMO whatever... sunflowers.
Chair Furfaro: There is a question for you, Mr. Hooser.
Mr. Hooser: Sure. We are almost done.
Ms. Nakamura: I am going back to the previous— "except
that the first report shall be due on the date this ordinance shall take effect?"
Mr. Hooser: Yes.
Ms. Nakamura: So that is the date?
Mr. Hooser: That would be six (6) months or nine (9)
months—well, whatever date we agree on.
Ms. Nakamura: Okay. I understand. Thank you.
Mr. Hooser: The GMO notification has two (2)
components in that block of yellow. The first component says we need a little bit
more than just GMO corn and GMO sunflowers. We are still not looking for trade
secrets, but the general purpose of the organism. Is it pest resistant? Is it drought
resistant? Again, it is not a trade secret; it just a general description of the
characteristic. For example, if it is pesticide resistant, you might expect there
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 174 OCTOBER 15, 2013
would be more pesticides used. If it is pest resistant, it tells you a little bit more
information than just corn. That is the first sentence. Now to the second sentence
starting with "any applicant." "Any applicant to any Federal agency for any permit
or approval of any bioproduct basically shall submit a copy of their application to us,
the County, at the same time that they submit an application to any Federal
agency." If they are applying for a new GMO organism, a permit from the Federal
government, they will give us a copy of that application at the same time they give
it to the Federal government. This is State law now. Those exact words are in the
State law. They have to provide that same information to the Department of
Health as we sit here. We are not asking them to do anything more than what they
are already required by law to do.
Chair Furfaro: Councilmember Yukimura?
Ms. Yukimura: My understanding is that every application
is on the USDA website.
Mr. Hooser: I am asking them to disclose that
information the same as they are disclosing or supposed to disclose to the State of
Hawai`i right now. We do not have to go look everyday to check the website to see
what a new application is. When they file an application, they would send that
application to us, the same as when they send it to the Department of Health. It is
the same information.
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me, are you finished, JoAnn?
Ms. Yukimura: I want to finish this conversation if I may?
Chair Furfaro: You finish and I will give the floor to Nadine.
Ms. Yukimura: We can find out when, but I think every
application is posted under Kaua`i and by company as to every application that is
made.
Mr. Hooser: I am not arguing whether or not they are
posted or not. I am suggesting that the companies provide us with the information,
just like they are required by law to provide the State with the information.
Ms. Yukimura: But that means the County has to enforce
this provision?
Mr. Hooser: This is record keeping. They send the
information and we post it. This is important information. This information is the
information provided when the companies apply to do a new test. That way, we
would know that they are applying for a new test. We get the copy of the Federal
application at the same time the State does. We can then, if we choose to, respond.
We do not have to go dig around and wonder when they are posting something on
the website. Again, it is the same information that they are supposed to be doing
right now, according to State law. I think it is important. It is an existing State
law, just like the worker protection signs are in existing law. Can I move on?
Chair Furfaro: One moment. I think the Vice Chair had a
question on this subject.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 175 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Mr. Hooser: Okay.
Chair Furfaro: You have the floor, Nadine.
Ms. Nakamura: What would you do? You would post the
application on the County website?
Mr. Hooser: It goes with the disclosure. It is part of what
is disclosed. Yes, so it is public information.
Ms. Nakamura: Is it currently public information?
Mr. Hooser: It is as public as the State wants it to be, just
like the Department of Agriculture. Did you have a comment, Councilmember
Yukimura? You want to wait until I am finished? Right now for example, the
Department of Agriculture says restricted use pesticides are public information.
But to get the information, you have to send them a Uniform Information Practices
Act (UIPA) request. Did you have something to say?
Ms. Nakamura: Councilmember Yukimura, maybe you can
just...
Chair Furfaro: Let me share this with you. Mr. Hooser has
the floor. When you are finished with the floor, I will recognize members who will
pose questions to you.
Mr. Hooser: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: You have the floor, Sir.
Mr. Hooser: So getting information from the Department
of Agriculture, which I have firsthand experience, is very difficult. It is supposed to
be public information. To get it, it is similar. This would allow our public to have
easy access to this information, since it is important to our community.
Ms. Nakamura: If Councilmember Yukimura is saying that it
is already available on a USDA website, and if it that is true, can we just do a link?
Mr. Hooser: Can I respond?
Ms. Nakamura: If you want the information, this says when
an applicant applies for a Federal permit, they send you a copy. We will not know
when they are applying unless someone is checking that website on a regular basis
to know when a new application is comes up. That is really the issue. You have to
assign somebody to check. Again, they are supposed to be filing this information
with the State. They just make a second copy for us and it goes here.
Ms. Nakamura: You just want this to be the trigger of
notification.
Mr. Hooser: Yes, so we would know and not have to go
look for it.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 176 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Chair Furfaro: Councilmember Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: My understanding is that the applications
are on the web, so they are listed. It is going to come to the County and then what
are we going to do with it? We are going to put it on our web? I just do not
understand the difference? It is by island and I think it shows what company is
applying. I do not understand what new information will be provided.
Chair Furfaro: Let us move on, please.
Mr. Hooser: For the Pesticide Buffer Zones, again, bear
with me or a second because it does not include the "no crop" provision. If we can
focus on the distances... so Councilmember Bynum and I have worked on this. He
has particularly worked on it a lot. It is five hundred (500) feet from the property
line. I think that is an important distinction. If you say schools, is it the
playground? The property line is a very clear line and we include park in that.
"Property line" is a key element word and the term "park." We believe parks are
where senior softball is played, where children play, and where mothers take
babies. It is just as important as the other daycare centers and others.
If we go onto page eleven (11), item number two (2), five hundred (500) feet
from the property line on which a dwelling is located. If there is a house on the
property, it is five hundred (500) feet from the property line, except for and similar
to your provision, of the person living in the property. So except for if it is part of a
contiguous property related owned or managed, then it is five hundred fifty (550)
from the dwelling. We do not believe someone living in Kaumakani Camp or
someplace like that should have less protection. This says you cannot do it from the
property line or something like that because it is all one big parcel, it is from the
dwelling. Everybody else gets from the property line— five hundred (500) feet from
the land, so let us do five hundred fifty (550) feet from the dwelling to give them an
approximation of the same protection.
The next provisions come a lot from Dr. Carl Berg. "Five hundred (500) feet
from any shoreline." "Shoreline" is defined as a "high-watermark" in the State
"shoreline" definition. We have your disclaimer in there on the Department of
Agriculture for health purposes. Number four (4), "no pesticide of any kind may be
used within two hundred (200) feet of perennial streams." The definition is there.
Number five (5), "no pesticide can be used within one hundred (100) feet of any
other State waters. Again, the State water definition is there and State waters do
not include irrigation ditches or drainage ditches. Last but not least on that, "no
pesticide of any kind"... we have five hundred (500) feet from a public roadway—
this is controversial to some people, but it is five hundred (500) feet from a public
roadway, except if you choose to post signage that you can see from the speed limit
that you are going. We believe that to give special treatment for orchard crops
weakens the Bill in some respects because you are giving special treatment to one
(1) person. We believe that everybody is treated equally and say, "It is your choice.
You can either not plant there or put the signs there." Councilmember Bynum,
jump in if I get this wrong because you worked really hard on this. That is that
provision. Again, we believe that treating different people differently is a weakness
in the Bill.
For page twelve (12), this is the Environmental and Public Health Impacts
Study, the EPHIS, and some of it is just kind of cleaning up. We put "multi-part"
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 177 OCTOBER 15, 2013
instead of"two-part." I would rather be broad in case we go to the Resolution and
want to do it different. Changing "using" to "utilizing." Taking out the word
"growing." It is just better language, I believe. Then we put in "As determined by
Council Resolution," which is on the table now. That last sentence in that first
paragraph (a), I think it is important that it is clear that the EPHIS is not just a
study, but makes recommendations that include, but not limited to possible actions
the County may take in order to address the significant effects, which is defined or
public health impacts, or both as may be determined. I think it is good to put the
"significant effects" in there, but it is "as may be determined by the EPHIS." On
completion of the EPHIS, then the County goes back to these buffer zones. What
did we learn with the EPHIS? Maybe we adjust them. We have the so-called "one
size fits all because we want protection, but after the study is done, we learn more
and we can revisit the buffer zones.
In paragraph (b), I think it is very important that we have a funding
provision in there. There has been a lot of talk about who is going to pay for this, so
it says, "in addition to other funding sources, the County may pay for this and
anything else required for the implementation from property taxes directly related
to these properties, through new permitting fees or both." In addition to "others,"
that is a big phrase so that does not limit it to anything. It specifically says
"property taxes directly associated or new permitting fees." I think it is very
important that we have a funding mechanism in here, should the County decide to
use it.
Permitting— we discussed this last time and I think it is real important that
we put this in here. It says "the County may," and does not say that "the County
has to..." "Develop and implement a permitting process that applies to activities
and entities contained within this article and it shall include, but not limited to
provisions that mitigate whatever impacts come out of this EPHIS." That is the
missing leg. We get disclosure, do our study, and you mitigate. You cannot
mitigate without permitting and this does not say you have to do it right away, but
says you may do it in future. It also says that County may administer and
implement fees to be used for the regulation and enforcement of this article. It is
double language to make sure that we have the ability to charge fees. There are
many people who feel that these companies should be paying the price of this
enforcement and not the taxpayers. I think it is important to have that language in
there. When we asked the Administration last time, they agreed that if we gave
them the authority that the law allows them to do that. Those are it in a nutshell.
Again, I want to thank Councilmember Bynum for really, really working hard on
these, especially the buffer zones, and I am open to any further questions or we can
recess. Chair, thank you for the time.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. I will give Mr. Bynum a few minutes,
and then I want to go into recess to find out what you guys can agree on.
Mr. Bynum, you have a few minutes.
Mr. Bynum: Thank you very much, Chair. I really
appreciate this work. This is good. I am glad Mr. Hooser was allowed the
opportunity to present the amendments that we have been contemplating and
working on. I will not go over each one other than to say particularly on the buffer
zones and roadway buffer zones. The provision that is in here I think is
outstanding. We have two (2) issues that I think as we go through this that I would
ask members to be open to in this dialogue. One is this base number. One hundred
(100) feet is not adequate in my view. I think five hundred (500) feet is the right
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 178 OCTOBER 15, 2013
number, but my view is also that pragmatically up to one hundred fifty (150) feet,
that is just getting started, kind of pragmatic, and it really only starts to have any
safety impact— this is my opinion, not based on science, but just on commonsense...
at about one hundred fifty (150) feet. I would hope that if there is a compromise, it
is in the three hundred (300) range and I would ask the people to look at that.
In terms of roadside notification, this is very important to people who have
lots of chemical sensitivities. We received testimony from Teresa Tico that was
particularly on point about this and how our changing laws identify this medical
(inaudible). It gives those people a sense of power, but more importantly, it is just
pragmatic. You notify twenty-four (24) hours in advance with signage that can be
read, you have no buffer zone but the people have an opportunity to avoid that area.
It has no impact on that cultural production along the roadways. I think that is
important and a reasonable thing. If you have a base number that might be lower
through compromise, but the provision telling people to "please not grow anything
on our agricultural land." There are lots you can grow. Kaua`i Coffee can continue
to grow coffee. They will not be restricted on the roadway, but I am going to say in
a minute that I hope there are some restrictions for Kaua`i Coffee on the ocean side,
which is currently not in the Bill as I understand. Anyway, those are really the key
things.
In terms of the EPHIS, I think these are just logical inclusions to make it
clear of what the potential outcomes would be. We are being really honest here
tonight. Gary and I— excuse me and correct me, but we have surrendered a lot...
more than I ever wanted to surrender. We are surrendering it to well-intended,
super dedicated Councilmembers. Basically, they are going to go back during this
break, look at these things, and put in what we have convinced them to put in, if
any. That is just the reality of where we are. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. The objection here from the
Chairman is with the disclosure from Mr. Hooser and Mr. Bynum on their items, I
would hope that between the two (2) ladies who introduced the first amendment to
find some agreement. To Mr. Rapozo and Mr. Kagawa, I would like to give you the
floor to see if you have any feedback on what we have heard so far. Obviously, it is
important for people to understand that if I have to go and vote in seriatim on these
items then I will, but an amendment will require four (4) votes from the body. The
Bill is intact as it came out of Committee. These items will require four (4) votes
and I probably will vote in seriatim when that happens. I am expecting the
members who have introduced these potential amendments to share with me what
they can agreement on when we go on recess. I will give the floor to Councilmember
Kagawa or Councilmember Rapozo for any commentary at this point. Mr. Kagawa,
you have the floor.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you, Chair. I originally wanted to go
along with the Mayor and his deferral. I believe that the State and Federal
government really are the ones that should be overseeing this type of legislation.
However, it appears that with your commitment to get a decision tonight that the
deferral is probably not there. I am just kind of concerned that we did a lot of work
in Committee. We came up with a Bill that could garner four (4) votes and now we
are here at 9:30 p.m. and we are looking at almost something way different than
what we approved in Committee. I just hope that we can come to some kind of
agreement or else let us refer it back to Committee. Thank you.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 179 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo, I will give you the courtesy of
the floor.
Mr. Rapozo: I guess I will reserve my comments for the
end. I am assuming that we are going to take a vote tonight.
Chair Furfaro: That is my intention.
Mr. Rapozo: If it is going to be deferred and that is the
wishes of the body, then we should probably try that motion first because we are
probably looking at several more hours and if it is only going to arrive at a deferral,
then let us entertain that first. I just do not want to be here to midnight just to end
up with a deferral. We have done this before, but I just hate to go through all—
because our Staff will have to be back in the morning. That is my only comment.
As far as the Bill itself, I think I will just reserve my comments for the end.
Chair Furfaro: That is fine with me. Mr. Hooser, and then
Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Hooser: Chair, thank you very much and I appreciate
you sticking through it. It has been a long night for all of us. I feel that
Councilmember Bynum and I put your amendments out, and addressing many of
the same issues that had to be resolved. If we along with the Vice Chair and her co-
introducer can take a recess and look at those to see wherever they could
incorporate those into theirs and take into consideration our concerns, we can come
out and vote on this Bill, and be done in a relatively short period of time.
Chair Furfaro: JoAnn?
Ms. Yukimura: I have some questions about the proposed
amendments.
Chair Furfaro: I have no problem allowing you to ask those
questions of the gentlemen. I do want to make sure everybody understands that
when we get through that piece, I want to break for half an hour to see what you
can agree on. When we get into a roll of a vote, and I have already shared with you,
I do not support a deferral. I support the portions that we have in the Bill that
came out of Committee that deals with pesticides, but as it becomes more and more
complicated and adding in other things with GMO issues, that is certainly some
things that should be addressed through another Bill in my opinion. I just want to
say that. I intend on voting on Bill tonight as it came out of Committee, but I will
leave that to your group for discussion. You have questions for the gentlemen. You
have the floor.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you. I have questions that will help
me in trying to decide what to accept and what not to.
Chair Furfaro: I understand that. Go right ahead.
Ms. Yukimura: I do want to say that it is not just going to be
Council Vice Chair and myself who determines this. As you have said Chair, this
will be determined by vote of the body. In terms of property line of all dwellings,
that means we would have to establish where the property line is. It is kind of
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 180 OCTOBER 15, 2013
easier to see where the dwelling is and up to the walls, rather than figuring out
where the property lines are.
Chair Furfaro: JoAnn, you still have the floor.
Ms. Yukimura: It is a question.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Bynum, do you want to respond?
Mr. Bynum: We have property lines already down to the
square inch designated everywhere. Property lines make sense. Now dwelling, we
do not know exactly where the dwelling is on each property, but we know where
residential property lines are to the inch.
Ms. Yukimura: You do?
Mr. Bynum: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: So you can identify where it is on the land
very easily? That is where you are going to have to measure from. You do?
Mr. Bynum: May I respond?
Ms. Yukimura: Please.
Chair Furfaro: You need to ask me if you may respond.
Mr. Bynum: May I?
Chair Furfaro: You may respond.
Mr. Bynum: I have spent hundreds of hours on our
Geographic Information Systems (GIS) maps. Every property line is defined. You
can measure it easily. Yes, it is very simple. That is the reason the property line
makes sense in residential. On those agricultural parcels, which I identified weeks
ago that we needed a provision for those parcels like Kaumakani, where the
residents are all on one big parcel which is the purpose of Councilmember Hooser's
amendments. This is a totally pragmatic and practical thing. Property lines in
residential areas are easily defined. Dwellings on agriculture will be a little more
difficult, but it will only be in those circumstances.
Ms. Yukimura: Forgive me for being so ignorant, but I am
not familiar with easily identifying property lines on land and I guess surveyors will
tell me how easy it is. I just had to ask that question because we are trying to make
this Bill easily enforceable.
Chair Furfaro: I am glad you asked the question, JoAnn.
Ms. Yukimura: On the EPHIS, you are changing "related to
large commercial entities utilizing pesticides and genetically modified organisms."
You taking out "crops" and saying "organisms." What was the rationale for that?
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 181 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Mr. Hooser: Everywhere else in the Bill says "organisms."
It does not say "genetically modified crops." It says "genetically modified
organisms" throughout the Bill.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. We are not talking about genetically
engineered bacteria, which are organisms. I think we just wanted to distinguish
crops from genetically engineered insulin, et cetera. The thing about special
treatment— my understanding of the law is that it is not special treat when it is
based on legitimate circumstances of difference. In fact, you mentioned that if we
find in our study that we would make recommendations based on those differences
by investigation. We have found, through our investigations, some legitimate
differences in circumstances. Would that not qualify for a difference, for example,
in hedge-like orchards?
Chair Furfaro: Do one of you gentlemen want to respond to
that?
Mr. Bynum: I would not disagree. I am not saying that
provision is not legal; I am just saying it is unnecessary. If you can avoid making
distinctions for one particular person, that is better. If there were buffers on the
roadside that would be eliminated, there would be no impact. I just think there is a
better way to go. I am not saying there is anything wrong with that. I just do not
think it is good policy and it is not necessary. We can set one standard that will
work for all of these entities.
Ms. Yukimura: I think there was some concern on the part of
the companies that there would be a sign maybe every day on the highway. How is
that going to help people?
Mr. Bynum: May I answer?
Chair Furfaro: If you ask me, then yes.
Mr. Bynum: They are asking questions about... I am
sorry. Can you repeat the question?
Ms. Yukimura: There was a concern by companies that if
you just relied on notification of signage that there would be a sign there every day.
Mr. Bynum: The original Bill said seventy-two (72) hours.
I later recommended making it forty-eight (48) hours. The Bill was amended to be
twenty-four (24) hours. If you give a twenty-four (24) hour notification, Monday
morning, the sign goes up that says, "We are going to spray Tuesday, Wednesday,
Thursday, Friday this week." The sign is up there on Monday, Tuesday,
Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday. They have a three (3) day window to spray.
Why is this important? People want to be able to avoid that area if pesticides are
going to be sprayed in proximity to the roadway. I do not want to impact the
company's operations, so just give us roadside notification that empowers those
individuals to avoid that potential expose injure. It will have no impact on your
operations. The other thing is that I also have been talking to the seed companies
and looking at ways to not needlessly impact their operations. I have also been
talking to physicians who need certain things to treat their... I would hope that
they would have equal consideration in this Bill.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 182 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Chair Furfaro: JoAnn, do you have a comment?
Ms. Yukimura: If you are talking about prospective
notification, there may be signs. What we were talking about signage was saying
"spraying" like the Department of Transportation. If you are going to say Monday,
Wednesday, and Friday on a road sign, for one, it is more words and two (2), they
may plan to spray Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, and then they do not spray and
on those days people could easily go, but they do not spray because it is windy and
so forth. It is not going to be real accurate information for people.
Mr. Bynum: JoAnn, whatever position you take is a
position you take. I am trying to work on something that is called a "precautionary
principle," that when you have things that might hurt people, you act safely.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Bynum, we need to move on. She is
asking the questions. I want to make sure everybody understands the intent of the
Chair is to take a thirty (30) minute break.
Mr. Kagawa: For numbers sake, can we just see who
agrees with the Mayor that a one (1) month deferral is something that... he is the
head of the County. He is asking us for some time to see if he can lessen the burden
on the County government. I had some positive talks on Friday with the
Department of Agriculture and the Department of Health. Although many may not
feel the same way, I tend to hope that we can get some cooperation because the
County cannot fund all of the responsibilities that I think our residents really want
in the end. I think we are going to need that corporation from the State in order to
satisfy all of the impacts on not only the peoples' health, but the environment. If we
can at least see if we can get a deferral vote, I am very positive that in one (1)
month, we will finally come to a conclusion that everybody can be really happy
about. I do not see this as "kicking the can down the road." Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: I want to make sure that we all understand
that a deferral question has precedence by the rules over everything else we do
here. I think we have an amendment now that gives the Mayor's group nine (9)
months to implement things. I will suspend the rules and ask questions of the
Administration on what was just presented. I do want to make sure that you
understand, I suspend the rules to do that and if you want to go to a deferral vote
and a deferral vote passes, it is the end of the business. I have already strongly
stated by position. I just needed to share that with you. If somebody makes a
motion and somebody seconds it and we call for a roll call, that motion has
precedent over all other motions. Before I get to that point, I want to suspend the
rules and see if the Administration has any questions as it relates to the discussion
at the table. Mayor, this is specifically directed at the Administration if you have
any comments. Also knowing in the provisions, the six (6) months going to nine (9)
months. We are going to have to take a caption break, and then we will proceed. I
am going to give thirty (30) minutes to the merging of amendments. Before I do
that, Mr. Hooser, do you want the floor?
Mr. Hooser: I was just going to suggest that we take a
caption break, give thirty (30) minutes to the amendments, come back, continue
discussion on the amendments, and vote on the amendments.
Chair Furfaro: We are going to call a recess for ten (10)
minutes.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 183 OCTOBER 15, 2013
There being no objections, the meeting was recessed at 9:49 p.m.
The meeting was reconvened at 10:06 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: We are back in session. Before we broke,
there was some discussion, Mauna Kea, and I have asked you folks to come back up
to hear some of your comments. In my mind, I want to get some real clarity about
the question Ms. Yukimura raised about property lines. Although through metes
and bounds and surveys, we can see the information. If we had a complaint filed
about the distance, would that require us to send a surveyor out?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Mr. Trask: Yes, I believe so. We would have to shoot the
lines. I use pictometry a lot in the work that I have to do. Pictometry GIS comes
with this disclaimer that it is not accurate; it is approximate. It is a tool for that
purpose. When looking at five hundred (500), one hundred (100), or whatever the
zone is, we would have to determine if it is criminal beyond a reasonable doubt, and
the Prosecutors have to do that. If it is via civil complaint, the burden of proof is
the preponderance of the evidence, but I would anticipate that we would have to
shoot the lines with the surveyor.
Chair Furfaro: That is what you would anticipate?
Mr. Trask: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Thank you very much. I just wanted
a follow-up on that based on the fact that we know what metes and bounds are
available to us and so forth. The Councilwoman asked that question. It was worth
asking a legal opinion. If we have a complaint that deals with the property lines,
you are telling me that it is most likely going to be required of us to send a surveyor
out.
Mr. Trask: (Inaudible) foundation to do so, yes. That is
separate and apart from this Ordinance. It is the rules of evidence.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: Thank you for that clarification. I agree with
you that our GIS metes and bounds are approximate. They are within plus or
minus ten (10) feet probably. I just purchased a home and I could choose to have a
surveyor come out and do the pegs if I wanted to pay six hundred dollars ($600).
The people who purchased my home did that and guess what? The property line
was right where they thought it was. I agree with you. I do not have any question
that should we proceed to some kind of fine and that was challenged, we would have
to in those circumstances do that. In terms of identifying where buffers are, in my
view, those plus or minus few feet is enough. In terms of setting boundaries, I do
not disagree. Let me turn this into a question. This would only be the case, should
we actually move to some type of enforcement, either civil or criminal, and that
enforcement was challenged. Then as part of the evidentiary, we would have to
have surveyed lines. Is that correct?
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 184 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Mr. Trask: I will answer your question with the second
prong. Yes, if we were to go to court and prosecute the case, whether in a criminal
or civil venue, we would have to prove it according to the requisite evidentiary
standard. How any Department would— the internal polices is setup in order to
regulate it. They could decide to go plus or minus a couple of feet. I believe, and
without confirming with the County Attorney, the County Attorney's Office position
would that it would be good to establish that at the onset so you would know. You
would know the five hundred (500) feet. It is more a policy call in how thorough
whatever Department who ends up with the task would do it.
Mr. Bynum: Thank you. You have answered my
question.
Mr. Trask: Okay.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you for coming up to answer mine. I
do not know if you are part of this group here, but I have suspended the rules to get
feedback from you on any of the dialogue you heard about these additional
amendments. Also granting that one of the amendments takes it for nine (9)
months from six (6) months. I think there was a question about other permitting
issues, but it is really your opportunity now to give us some feedback before we
move forward.
STEVEN A. HUNT, Director of Finance: Steve Hunt, Director of Finance
for the record. I was actually going to speak to some of the GIS pitometry issues
regarding the property lines. Another thing that sort of came to light to is that
properties are not always square or rectangular. Sometimes they have arcs or are a
little triangular. I know as a general rule, the crops are typically planted in a
fashion that is more of plots and being rectangular, so I do not know in terms of
enforcement whether it is expected that the buffer follow the shapes of other
subdivisions or properties surrounding, which may actually change the way that the
buffer is impacted. There may be deeper buffers if they have to meet the shallowest
point for the five hundred (500) feet. It may actually impact them a little bit more.
The other thing that is not really explicit in the Bill is whether there are any
tolerances. It is enforceable at four hundred ninety-nine (499) feet? If it is a five
hundred (500) feet buffer, is there a fence line if you are over six (6) inches so it is
something that you are going to have to tear down? Is there any tolerance to that?
On the funding side, it sounds like permits may or may not be an issue here, but I
heard discussion at an earlier meeting last Tuesday that talked about using the CIP
Bond Fund for the study. I want to make it real clear that that is not an eligible
source. It is not an infrastructure project that would jeopardize our total sixty
million dollar ($60,000,000) bond offering that we have in our tax-exempt status if
we are going to go out for something that is not eligible for bond funding. Neither
the study nor the EPHIS would be a CIP project. I just want to make that real clear
when we get to the funding portion of this that it is not an eligible tool to fund this.
Chair Furfaro: That is based on the fact that there is no
visible asset obtained qualifying as an additional asset.
Mr. Hunt: Correct. It is not capital asset in nature and
it does not result in any infrastructure asset for the County. It may be for the good
of the County, but because it does not result in actual physical construction, a study
that is an architectural study or an EIS that actually precedes something that is
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 185 OCTOBER 15, 2013
going to be built would be eligible, but if there is no construction at the end of it, it
would not be eligible.
Chair Furfaro: George, do you have any comments about the
narrative?
GEORGE COSTA, Director of Economic Development: Yes. Aloha, Chair
Furfaro and Councilmembers. A lot of the issues and concerns being brought up
right now are exactly what I was concerned with when I first got the Bill and
approached the Mayor for a deferral to work through exactly what we have here.
With the disclosure notice, it sounds simple enough where these reports would be
either downloaded or E-mailed to the Office of Economic Development. Depending
on what time of day we establish as the deadline, I am concerned with that because
I believe they do spraying on the weekends so we would need to have somebody
physically in the Office. I know there was some thought of being able to download it
external of the County website. I know for me personally, I work from home and I
try to access the County infrastructure and I cannot because of firewalls or
protective reasons. We have to literally be physically in the Office to do that. That
may pose a concern. Also, there is the funding issue to bring on another person that
can work the weekends. The other thing was on the study itself, I know we need to
work through issues with that. That would have been my main concern from the
disclosure portion of it. Obviously, the buffer zones were already discussed.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Larry, you have the floor.
LARRY DILL, P.E., County Engineer: Good evening, Council Chair
and members of the Council. For the record, Larry Dill, County Engineer. It has
already been spoken about the buffer zones. In Public Works, we often deal with
issues of encroachments, right-of-way, and things like that. When we get down to
brass tacks, we have to send our surveyor out to determine whether or not an
encroachment exists, and I would use that as analogy to get to the point where any
enforcement might be required. However, well prior to that, the County will have to
manage this, so there will have to be some good way to understand where property
lines are. Often in the field, that can be difficult to see where the property lines
actually are. That is a challenge that we are regularly faced with in Public Works.
I also want to share that we have just been presented with these amendments, as
we all have, and I understand the situation here. It is difficult for us to do you a
good service here and give you good feedback when you have not had a good
opportunity to review and digest this. Having said that, I do understand the
situation tonight.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. I have a question from Vice Chair,
and then a question from Councilmember Yukimura.
Ms. Nakamura: Larry, I wanted to just follow-up on your
comment. Would it be easier for inspectors to measure by the structure? Let us say
a dwelling or the structure of the school versus the property line?
Mr. Dill: Out in the field, it is obvious where say the
closest approach of the structure is, whereas it may not be that obvious where the
property line is. I would say it is easier to go from the structure.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 186 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Chair Furfaro: Councilmember Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: That was my question, so it has been
answered. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mauna Kea, is there anything that you want
to add to the amendments that you have heard so far here? Do you have an
additional comment, Mr. Dill?
Mr. Dill: If I may?
Chair Furfaro: You have the floor.
Mr. Dill: Further to Councilmember Nakamura's
question about measuring from a structure; during the regular management— if it
gets down to enforcement, I envision that we will have a two (2) man survey crew
out there ascertaining exactly what that distance was to find out whether or not it
was inside a buffer zone. In the regular day-to-day management in Public Works,
we work to get people into compliance so we try to help them out and say this is
where we need to be. In order to provide that type of assistance to them and to help
them be in compliance, I am not sure how we would help them do that, short of
having a survey crew out there measuring. I guess they could have a five hundred
(500) feet tape if we needed to. That is just one of the challenges that I see here.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Councilmember Hooser.
Mr. Hooser: Thank you. I thought it was the agricultural
entity's responsibility to establish the buffer zone. I would think they would go to
their property line and they would know where that is, and go back five hundred
(500) feet. They would not go on to property line to measure from my house. They
would go to their property line which abuts my property and then move back. That
is how I envision it would work. They would be the ones responsible for planting
their crops and not spraying, and they would know where their property lines are
at. I do not know why we would think they would come onto my property with the
tape measure against my house.
Mr. Dill: It all depends on how you end up with your
Bill and your Ordinance.
Mr. Hooser: In terms of measuring from the property line
and measuring from the dwelling.
Mr. Dill: Okay, but my point is that if it comes to a
point of enforcement, we are going need to verify and that is why I bring it up.
Mr. Hooser: Okay. From the County's perspective, it is
easier for you to measure from my house than it is to measure from the property
line?
Mr. Dill: Yes, that is correct.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 187 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Mr. Hooser: Okay. From the person who is supposed to
be doing the buffer zone, they would be measuring from their property line back five
hundred (500) feet?
Mr. Dill: That is dependent upon how you write your
law.
Mr. Hooser: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Councilmember Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: This is just a follow-up. The language would
say "no crops may be grown within five hundred (500) feet of any school, medical
facility, or adult boarding home," so it seems to me that you would define where the
medical facility or school is and then go five hundred (500) feet from that.
Mr. Dill: I would need the language in the law
interpreted. First of all, the way it is written, is not clear to me. Is that a building
or is that a property in the way you just read it?
Ms. Yukimura: "No crops may be grown within five hundred
(500) feet of any school, medical facility, et cetera."
Mr. Dill: To me, I cannot tell if that means the
building or the property, first of all. Is that defined in there elsewhere?
Ms. Yukimura: No. Where the property line was going to be
used was on dwellings. Rather than dwellings it was... let me see how it was going
to be read. "No crops may be grown within five hundred (500) feet of any dwelling."
Councilmembers Bynum and Hooser were saying it should be within five hundred
(500) feet of any property line... I guess of the dwelling. It would be going from a
building wall to five hundred (500) feet to make sure there was not any crop in that
distance, or it would be from the boundary line where the dwelling is located.
Mr. Dill: Correct. I am just saying that in order to do
it from the property line, certainly if it got to an enforcement level, we would
probably have to do a land survey.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Do you have any more to share with
us on the amendments? I intend to go into a recess for half an hour to see what the
individuals can agree on. Then we will vote on them individually. Mr. Costa?
Mr. Costa: Chair Furfaro and Councilmembers, some of
the concerns I shared earlier on, and I shared with some of the people in the
audience, was one, if the Bill is passed, the expectation that this is going to be
instantaneous... and I think for the most part, people said, "No, we realize it would
take a while to develop." Now whether that "takes a while" would be one (1) month,
two (2) months, or three (3) months, and as we pointed out, it might be a nine (9)
month period to work towards resolving a lot of those concerns. One of the
scenarios, because my Department was involved with the Waimea Canyon Air
Study, is that you have the school and if you have the established property line and
the buffer zone where the seed companies are operating or planting. If a call or
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 188 OCTOBER 15, 2013
complaint came in and said, "We are not feeling well. We think there is a smell or
something." Whoever is responding, whether it is in the Office of Economic
Development— and one of the ideas was to have it in the Fire Department and let
them be the first responders. When they approach the scene, hopefully there is
evidence there of the spraying and that can be determined right away. If not, then
it will be more crucial to establish these boundaries. One concern that I have is
with the case of Waimea Canyon Intermediate School, you have the hospital right
next door. You have a neighborhood that is only a hollow tile wall separating the
school from the residential area. Say if Mrs. Kinoshita is out spraying malathion in
her yard, is she going to be subject to fines and penalty. I want to pose that
question.
Ms. Yukimura: I am not familiar with the Department of
Agriculture rules as to this, but it would come under Department of Agriculture
rules and not under this Ordinance or law, at least as I understand it. Even
pesticide smelling and drifts, to me that is a Department of Agriculture complaint
that has to be addressed. We are saying measurable buffers, no crops. That is why
we are trying to keep the simplicity of a no crop buffer. Otherwise right now, the
Department of Agriculture Inspectors has the right to go onto properties to inspect
records. We do not have any of those rights right now that I know of, unless we put
them in the Bill. We would have to check with the Attorney if we could do that.
That would go to the preemption question again.
Mr. Costa: That is why I just wanted to make sure that
the general public understood that. If it is an emergency situation or we need to
resolve it or investigate, there is going to be a point where we can declare if it is the
Department of Agriculture, so we can step back. I just wanted to make sure we are
clear on that.
Chair Furfaro: George, I am going to give you my set of the
Department of Agriculture rules and the law.
Mr. Costa: I have that.
Chair Furfaro: Use it. I am serious. You find the situation
where you need something investigated according to the rules that are on the books
with the State of Hawai`i— use it. My comment about first responders or our
Hazmat group and so forth, obviously, I believe they could be available, too. Just do
not say to the State that we are not holding you accountable for things that are
within your agricultural division and are rules and laws. That would be my
response.
Mr. Costa: That is my point, Chair. They should be held
accountable and they should be responding. I want to ensure that the public knows
that.
Chair Furfaro: I understand. Thank you very much,
George. On the amendments— that is what I have suspended the rules for.
Mr. Dill: Chair, when comparing these two (2), I am
noticing that in one of the sets, there is a provision for penalties in there and there
is no provision for penalties in the other, unless I am missing something.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 189 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Chair Furfaro: We have not decided how they are merging
yet.
Mr. Dill: Okay.
Chair Furfaro: Then we will vote on that. I want to go into
a recess. I am going to call our meeting back to order. I thank you for your
feedback on the amendments. We are going to be in recess. Jenelle, may I say half
an hour? Okay. We are going to be in recess to work on these.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Mr. Bynum: I just wanted a little discussion about the
presentation. I did not have questions. Is that okay?
Chair Furfaro: You guys are dismissed. Do you have a
question, Mr. Bynum?
Mr. Bynum: I just want to make a couple of comments.
Again, I very much appreciate Administration being here and going through these
technical things. However, these are Administrative Rule issues. Once we pass the
Bill, these kind of technical details are routinely worked out through
Administrative Rules. These are all logical questions for the Administration to be
asking, but that the right time to do that, in my opinion, is after we pass this Bill.
The last thing about property lines— we have been through this on other issues.
Property lines are the pragmatic boundary from which to measure. They make
sense. They are perfectly accurate. If you get into a dispute with your neighbor
about encroachment or something, you have to have the surveyor come out there. I
do not believe we are going to have to do that very often, if at all, if we do these
rules properly. Property lines make sense. Mr. Katayama and I discussed that in
our first meeting and he said that property lines are the only thing that makes
sense. It gets way complicated when you go beyond that. We made that distinction
just for the dwellings on those. Thank you very much.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Kagawa, do you want to comment?
Mr. Kagawa: I think the concern I see from some of the
Administration personnel and managers is about how they are going to enforce
some of these buffers, et cetera. Just in my talks on Friday with the Department of
Health's Deputy Director Gary Gill, these are the things that he is looking at like an
Air Quality Inspector, Soil/Groundwater Quality Inspector, and a Health Concern
Clerk that would handle any calls from the public that has a health concern that
they want the Health Department to look into. They already have an
Epidemiologist and the support staff on Oahu. I just talked to Thomas Matsuda
from the Department of Ag on Friday also and he is looking at an additional
Agriculture Inspector, Education Specialist, and another Clerk to help the person
that Mr. Hooser got the information from. I believe her name is Avis. She showed
me the files. She is actually a Waimea Valley resident from the Hashimoto family.
Klayton guys know who that is. She needs help in order to process these files,
which are taking a long time. We need answers in a day, in a week. These are the
things that they are looking at adding and I think these are the commitments that
the Mayor wants to have. Otherwise, we need to maybe go with a more severe bill.
I think we are reacting to Councilmember Nakamura moving on, but it is just the
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 190 OCTOBER 15, 2013
time it takes. I think we need to let the Mayor do what he needs to do in order to
save the County resources and County money, and do it in the best interest of the
County. That is why I am saying I support the Mayor in searching for these. I just
got these things in one meeting and they are not solid. I think the Directors still
need commitments from the Governor that he will actually fund those. I think if we
pass the Bill, we risk them not stepping up and filling these positions. In the end,
we need that cooperation with the State and the County in order to be effective.
Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. We are going to be in recess
until two (2) minutes after eleven (11).
There being no objections, the meeting was recessed at 10:32 p.m.
The meeting was reconvened at 1:22 a.m., and proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: Aloha, everyone. I want to just cover some
procedural pieces here so we all understand what is going on. An amendment was
introduced for a Bill that passed out of Committee. For the Bill that passed out of
Committee, we will eventually get to vote on it, but we have to deal with the
amendments first. Since the first amendment was introduced by the two (2) ladies,
I need to ask them to withdraw that amendment if they are introducing a new
amendment, and that is based on the fact that Mr. Hooser shared some of his intent
that if they could incorporate it in to the new amendment, we would try to do so. As
I said before we went through earlier, I would like to get to a vote on the
amendments. It is up, down on the amendments. If other Councilmembers have
amendments they can introduce, I will give them three (3) minutes to share their
amendments, and then I will call for a vote. We have to go through that process
before we get to the Bill that came out of Committee. I also want to point out that
no matter what the outcome is as we go forward, this Council may still have to deal
with the Resolution after the vote. Please understand that we also have to secure
the building and this group has to be back for our regular Council Meeting
tomorrow morning. Please keep your containment one way or the other. Let us
finish our business for the night. Let us also be able to secure the building. If you
want to meet outside, I can appreciate that, but I have to get Staff turned around
and take care of our regular Council business tomorrow. On that note, to the Vice
Chair and Councilmember Yukimura, I need you to withdraw the original
amendments that were issued if that is your intention.
Ms. Yukimura withdrew her motion to amend Bill No. 2491, Draft 1 for
Amendment#1, (Attachment A) and Ms. Nakamura withdrew her second.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Is there a new amendment being
introduced?
Ms. Nakamura moved to amend Bill No. 2491, Draft 1 as circulated, as
shown in the Floor Amendment which is attached hereto as Attachment C,
seconded by Ms. Yukimura.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Bynum does not have an amendment. I
believe we are putting it up on the board at the same time. You can take mine and I
will watch the board. Who is going to walk us through this?
Ms. Nakamura: JoAnn.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 191 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Chair Furfaro: JoAnn, are you going to do that?
Ms. Yukimura: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Very good. JoAnn, you have the floor.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you. The first proposal that
Councilmember Hooser made was on page two (2), letter (h). You will see the third
paragraph there. We accepted part of it, rounding off the numbers. We did not
accept a portion that says "of the three (3) categories, only agricultural operations
involve open-air application" just because there was some question about the
termite treatment, which does actually let the gas off into the air. We just wanted
to quickly go through this and we did not have time to verify. On the second
amendment, "nurse practitioner," on page five (5); we have accepted that. I think
we kept the parks proposal, "State of Hawai`i, Federal Government." Did we not?
Ms. Nakamura: We are supposed to.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. We can add that back in.
Chair Furfaro: Hold on just a second. Staff, did you catch
that query? Jenelle? Okay. Continue, JoAnn.
Ms. Yukimura: Then following that, there was a proposal for
a very complex definition of "perennial streams." It was so technical and we just
have no time to understand it, and without understanding it, we do not know what
its implications are. We do not know how you are going to measure it so we did not
feel that under this limited timeframe we could feel comfortable to adopt it. We
actually went back to the definition of"stream" which we will come to later. It talks
about a defined channel and that makes it easier to measure from and enforce.
Then the next one is "physician," which we have accepted and you will see the
implications of that later. I think we kept "significant impact." You will see that we
have returned to the definition of"stream," which means "flows in a defined bed or
channel." We thought that would make it much easier to enforce. We are open to
any further discussion that can enlighten us, but given the time constraints and our
understanding, that is what we have chosen. Then on "mandatory disclosure of
pesticides and genetically modified organisms," we felt that in the top paragraph
(a)— this is on disclosure yet. In the prior calendar year, it is there but just with
different language so we kept ours. We did add under "pre-application good
neighbor courtesy." Aida, can we come back down to "pesticide pre-application good
neighborhood courtesy notice?" We supposed to have put in there the "revocable
permit holder." I do not see it though. Where is it?
Mr. Rapozo: It is right there in the second highlight.
Ms. Yukimura: Where is it?
Mr. Rapozo: In the second highlighted paragraph.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. The revocable permit holder is there
with a little bit of explanation. Then we did move the courtesy notice where
Councilmembers Hooser and Bynum wanted to have notice for licensed physicians
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 192 OCTOBER 15, 2013
or nurse practitioners. We actually created a new section, if we can move down,
Aida. Let us take the first one. "Pesticide Post-Application Public Disclosure."
There was a proposal to add the material safety data sheet and the label. We
understand those are voluminous like pages and pages so instead, we are putting it
in the EPA registration number and trade name, which would allow people to go to
the EPA website and get access to the label and the material safety data sheet. We
did not quite understand "total volume of applied material," so maybe if the
proposers want to explain that, we can go back to that. Then we come down to the
special additional section where it deals with "Pesticide Post-Application Urgent
Emergency Care Disclosure." We have crafted it for the health practitioner,
requiring that "each commercial agricultural entity shall establish an emergency
response hotline to be made available to any licensed physician or nurse
practitioner practicing in association with a clinic, medical facility, or emergency
center." Also, that there would be a response to a request within six (6) hours for
those who have a documented medical need. The entity must provide the following
information, which is basically the post-application information. We hope that will
be helpful to the practitioners.
As to notice of genetically modified organisms, we have accepted the
suggestion that the first report shall be due on the date that this Ordinance takes
effect since there is a six (6) month period of taking effect. Can we have the bottom
of page nine (9)? Thank you. You see up above "it shall be mandatory for all
commercial agricultural entities to disclose the growing of genetically modified
organisms." We did not include the information as to species, whether the
genetically modified organism is experimental or the general purpose of genetically
modified organisms. We did not include applicants to Federal agencies for permits
because we understand that to be on a USDA website by island and by applicant.
Then in pesticide buffer zones, we adopted the idea of"prior calendar year." We felt
it was adequate that there would be no pesticide applied to ground cover... to say
that in the leading paragraph. Then we kept the definition of"buffer" by "no crops."
We kept the one hundred (100) feet buffer for parks. We kept our definitions of
"buffers." I want to say that we did consider Dr. Berg's proposals for broader
buffers from the shoreline, perennial streams, and other state waters, but when I
asked him whether he had any data suggesting problems, he said "no." We are
hopeful that the study will give us better data and then at that point, we can
change these buffer requirements.
We did accept and we are open to discussion on this, the last proposal about
roadways, but we made it one hundred (100) feet instead of five hundred (500) feet.
"No crops may be grown within one hundred (100) feet of public roadways," but if
signs are put up, then it is none at all... signs that will notify people within
twenty-four (24) hours. Going on to the EPHIS, we changed "the EPHIS shall make
recommendations that include" to "may make recommendations that include." We
eliminated that "upon the completion of EPHIS, the Council shall reconsider the
buffer zone requirements" because we feel that is both a given and that there will be
other requirements to look at based on the data that we get. We did not include
funding sources because we think that we will look at funding sources anyway...
everything to get one million dollars ($1,000,000) in our very strapped budget. We
will be looking at everything. We also feel that if we can get a real community
based EPHIS, there will be people and other entities that are willing to fund it like
foundations and maybe Hawai`i Seed. Or what is that other one? Series? I mean if
we want the study, but we will not depend on it. We will come up with the moneys.
We are committed to doing this study. Then we did not include permitting because
we feel it is premature. The County may develop and implement a permitting
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 193 OCTOBER 15, 2013
process. We already may do that, and we will do that if the study shows that it is
merited. I think that was it.
Chair Furfaro: Very good. I want to make sure that
everybody understands that we spent almost two (2) hours trying to merge these
additional amendments to the Bill. I am going to be calling for a vote after I go
around the table for discussion by members once. If other members have additional
amendments you want to introduce after we spent two (2) hours after attempting to
merge both, then you can introduce additional amendments. I will go around the
table starting with Mr. Hooser.
Mr. Hooser: I just had a question, Chair, before I make
my remarks.
Chair Furfaro: Sure.
Mr. Hooser: On page eight (8), Section 22-22.4, I am a
little concerned because the words "no pesticides of any kind" have been stripped
out of the Bill. At the very beginning of the disclosure paragraph is the only place
that it says "disclose the use of all pesticides." All the other subsequent paragraphs
do not really refer to that. They talk about disclosure, but they do not really say "all
pesticides." I want to be clear that this is not just restricted use pesticides. It refers
to restricted use pesticides and the subsequent line says "use of all pesticides," so it
can be interpreted that this is all restricted use pesticides. I was wondering if we
could include "disclose the use of all pesticides "of any kind" during that following
year" so we avoid misunderstandings down the road. It is my understanding and I
think it is the intent for this to be a disclosure of all pesticides. I think that really
leaves it open. If those three (3) words could be inserted to say "disclose the use of
all pesticides of any kind during the following calendar year." I think it would make
a significant difference to future interpretations of this. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. That question was posed to the two
(2) introducers of the amendment. JoAnn, you have the floor.
Ms. Yukimura: I do concur that the intent is to disclose the
use of all pesticides. We actually mean "chemical pesticides," right? There are
other kinds of pesticides.
Mr. Hooser: Pesticides are defined in the Bill.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes. Pesticides as defined in the Bill include
"organic pesticides" because it says any substance or mixture intended to prevent,
destroy, repel, or mitigate any pests. I think the intention is chemical pesticides,
right?
Mr. Hooser: If I may, Chair?
Chair Furfaro: You may.
Mr. Hooser: The Bill is limited to only commercial
agricultural entities that use a certain minimum threshold of restricted use
pesticides and requires a disclosure of all pesticides, so that would include
everything that is in the definition. It is my belief that that is the intent and I just
want to make sure it is enforced that way and by adding "of any kind" just
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 194 OCTOBER 15, 2013
reinforces that all pesticides gets disclosed by these agricultural entities that meet
the threshold. That was in the original Bill and I believe that that is the intent.
Ms. Yukimura: You mean all organic pesticides, as well?
Mr. Hooser: I mean all pesticides that are defined within
the Bill as pesticides.
Ms. Nakamura: I do not have any problems with that. I
think that was the intent. It says here "to disclose of use of all pesticides."
Mr. Hooser: Right, so if you could add those three (3)
words, I think that would just...
Ms. Nakamura: I do not have any problem with that.
Mr. Hooser: Thank you.
Ms. Yukimura: I just hope there are no unintended
consequences.
Chair Furfaro: Go ahead, Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: I just have a process question. Is it your
intention that we are going to vote this straight up or down? If we wanted to make
modifications, that would be a subsequent amendment?
Chair Furfaro: You can introduce something, yes. That is
your privilege.
Mr. Bynum: Subsequent to this Bill?
Chair Furfaro: Yes.
Mr. Bynum: We are discussion possible amendments to
this?
Chair Furfaro: I have already discussed possible
amendments to this when Mr. Hooser wanted merge his items.
Mr. Bynum: Okay.
Chair Furfaro: This is the outcome. I would like to vote on
this. All members have an opportunity to get an up or down vote on other
amendments. JoAnn?
Ms. Yukimura: I just want to point out that Councilmember
Hooser used a method which is available to you, which is if you make a suggestion
and it is accepted by the makers of the motion, it can be incorporated. It is like a
"friendly amendment," so it just becomes part of it.
Chair Furfaro: That is your interpretation; that is not the
Chair's interpretation. I want to get this first amendment out of the way. If there
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 195 OCTOBER 15, 2013
are other members that want to introduce it, whether it is friendly or not, it is going
to show up in the way the vote goes.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. That is fine with me.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Kagawa.
Mr. Kagawa: I recall at the last Committee Meeting before
we started the meeting, your directions to the Committee was that all amendments
be done in Committee. If we are going to go further into amending these
amendments and bringing on further amendments, I would suggest that we move to
another day because I do not feel I am really thinking straight after seventeen (17)
hours or whatever it has been. Let us either make a decision to vote on these before
us or let us push it forward.
Chair Furfaro: It is my intent is to try and vote on these
amendments and get to the Bill that came out of Committee. Ladies, are there any
further commentary? Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: So we are just going to have one discussion
and vote, right?
Chair Furfaro: Yes.
Mr. Bynum: I want to thank the Councilmembers for
working on this. I would strongly suggest that if you do not like that definition of
"perennial stream," then go back to the "perennial stream" definition that I put
forward initially. However, I will vote for your stream definition, but I want you to
know that it is going to include a bunch more places. It is going to make it more...
so that is fine. I am deeply disappointed that this base number remains at one
hundred (100). This is my belief that the first one hundred fifty (150) feet really
have no protected impact because it is already setback that far on a practical basis.
I am talking one hundred (100) period from anything. I will support that if that is
best we can get, but I am deeply disappointed that we are going to establish buffer
zones and we are going to deal with the legal challenges that we assume will come,
so why not make them meaningful at two hundred fifty (250) feet or three hundred
(300) feet because that will actually help offer further protection to our community.
If we are going to err, let us err on the side of caution. If we are going to take the
hit and deal with the legal challenges about buffer zones, let us make them at least
meaningful. I have showed the graphics which JoAnn asked me to print out, and I
will show again that even if the buffer zones are in place, it has very little impact on
the usable land. I am deeply disappointed we would not have a better base number
to start from. Those are just my comments. I will be happy to vote on this up or
down. I would like to offer not a lot, but one (1) or two (2) amendments for
consideration.
Chair Furfaro: Well, we need to take a tape change. Nobody
move. Actually, I am going to make it a ten (10) minute recess so that individual
Councilmembers can prepare their additional amendments.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 1:49 a.m.
The meeting reconvened at 2:10 a.m., and proceeded as follows:
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 196 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Chair Furfaro: We are back from recess. Mr. Hooser, you
have the floor to explain your amendment.
Mr. Hooser: Thank you, Chair. My amendment is three
(3) words that I raised earlier, "of any kind," to be placed on page eight (8)—
"disclose the use of all pesticides" and insert "of any kind." I believe Staff is writing
that up and that is my amendment.
Chair Furfaro: I am going to refer to your amendment as
amendment number four (4).
Mr. Hooser: Okay.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Bynum, do you have an amendment
being written up?
Mr. Bynum: I do.
Chair Furfaro: Can you want to tell us about it, please?
Mr. Bynum: Yes. It is pretty straightforward. In the four
(4) instances where the Bill says "one hundred (100) feet," this amendment changes
it to "two hundred fifty (250) feet."
Chair Furfaro: Okay. I will refer to your amendment as
amendment number five (5). JoAnn, would you want to tell us what these changes
are coming up in number three (3) because that could or could not affect the
entertainment of amendment number five (5)?
Ms. Yukimura: We were trying to accommodate the requests
of Councilmembers Hooser and Bynum, so we are proposing to amend our
amendment by adding those three (3) words and also by going back to the definition
of "perennial waterways" rather than "streams." We do not have the two hundred
fifty (250) feet in there, but we do have the definition of waterways that Mr. Bynum
wants.
Ms. Nakamura: Chair, I just heard from Staff that we can
put it up on the screen and they are printing it out. Can we put it up on the screen
and describe it further?
Chair Furfaro: That is what we will do. On a housekeeping
note, I went to public school in the Territory of Hawai`i, okay? I went to a very good
public school in Wai`anae. If you do not understand my point of asking for separate
pieces so we can move forward, please ask me for some clarity. That is all I am
asking. Let us put this up on the board.
Ms. Nakamura withdrew her motion to amend Bill No. 2491, Draft 1 for
Amendment#2 (Attachment C) and Ms. Yukimura withdrew her second.
Ms. Nakamura moved to amend Bill No. 2491, Draft 1 as circulated, as
shown in the Floor Amendment which is attached hereto as Attachment D,
seconded by Ms. Yukimura.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 197 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Aida, do you know what piece
we are trying to show on the screen? It is up there. Okay. JoAnn, you have the
floor.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you. In the fourth line on the right
hand side, you will see the words "of any kind" as requested by Councilmember
Hooser. We have to go back to "waterways." We have taken out "stream" and we
are putting in "perennial waterways" which is in Draft 1, so you do not see it. It is
already in Draft 1 so it is back there. The references in the rest of the Bill where
they said we had "stream" is now changed to "waterways." No? We did not change
it? Yes, it is there. Thank you, Aida.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Mr. Hooser, may I ask that with the
verbiage that was presented on the board, are you satisfied with your potential
amendment number four (4)?
Mr. Hooser: My three (3) words look fine. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Bynum, have you seen what they are
proposing under the definition there?
r
Mr. Bynum: Yes. That is fine. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: I am going to go to waterways now, which is
amendment number five (5) proposed. Are you satisfied with that?
Mr. Bynum: For the definition of "waterways," I think
that is an appropriate one.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Now on the footage?
Mr. Bynum: Is it being circulated? We will vote on this
one first?
Chair Furfaro: Yes. I just want to hear if you are not
satisfied with the distance yet?
Mr. Bynum: No, I am not satisfied.
Chair Furfaro: That is what I want clarity on. This is
amendment number three (3). I am going to be calling for the question here. I have
a motion by Vice Chair Nakamura and I have a second by Ms. Yukimura. Am I
correct? Did I get that right?
Ms. Yukimura: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. I would like to go and ask for roll call
vote on this for amendment number three (3).
The motion to amend Bill No. 2491, Draft 1 (Attachment D) was then put,
and carried by the following vote:
FOR AMENDMENT: Bynum, Hooser, Kagawa, Nakamura,
Rapozo, Yukimura, Furfaro TOTAL — 7,
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 198 OCTOBER 15, 2013
AGAINST AMENDMENT: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0.
Chair Furfaro: There are seven (7) ayes on amendment
number three (3). Will there be no amendment number four (4) from you because it
is now covered?
Mr. Hooser: Yes, Chair. The items that I wanted to
amend, I proposed, and was rejected by the two (2) co-introducers of the other
amendments in large part. I do not think it would be good use of our time for me to
reintroduce those and have discussion on those amendments. I am disappointed
they were not included, and felt that they would have added a lot of value to the Bill
but they were chosen not to be included, so I will not be consuming more time with
those.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Is the next piece that was
handed out, which is referenced as amendment number five (5) from Mr. Bynum
ready?
Mr. Bynum: Yes, Sir.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Bynum, you have the floor.
Mr. Bynum moved to amend Bill No. 2491, Draft 1 as amended, as
circulated, as shown in the Floor Amendment which is attached hereto as
Attachment E, seconded by Mr. Hooser.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. You have the floor to discuss your
piece.
Mr. Bynum: I will make this very quick. It changes this
base figure of one hundred (100) feet to two hundred fifty (250) feet. It says "no
crops shall be grown within two hundred fifty (250) feet of any park. The
commercial agriculture entity has an approved Soil and Water Conservation Plan
that explicitly demonstrated no pesticide drift on the dwelling, then no crop may be
grown within two hundred fifty (250) feet of any dwelling." Same with "no crops
may be grown within two hundred fifty (250) feet of any public roadway." But it
keeps "except that this restriction shall not apply..." and it keeps those other
language, but makes the basis figure of two hundred fifty (250) feet. It also does
that with two hundred fifty (250) feet of any shoreline or perennial waterway. I just
want to show one graphic that I showed three (3) weeks ago really quick, if we can
put it up on the screen. I have the hard copy right here.
Chair Furfaro: Do we already have this?
Mr. Bynum: I presented this three (3) weeks ago. The
graphic that is going to go up is a huge agricultural parcel on the west side which
several companies have leases on. This is the whole west side; Polihale; all of that
Mana. As soon as we can see, I will make my point and we can call for the vote and
be done. While we are waiting for it to come up, I will keep talking because as I
said earlier, I really wanted to make it different. I hope you can see this. That is all
one large parcel. Portions of it are leased by the seed companies. I know BASF and
I believe Syngenta and Dow all have... this is a five hundred (500) feet buffer on the
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 199 OCTOBER 15, 2013
road. This is the road to Polihale. That is the road up to the Canyon from Kekaha.
You see this huge parcel that is only— this is at five hundred (500) feet. I am
saying let us go to two hundred fifty (250) feet and if you do notification, then none.
Under this, even though the numbers are two hundred fifty (250), this parcel will
have absolutely no impact. Even at five hundred (500) feet, it only had this little
bit. I do not know why we cannot in the name of caution say let us make this buffer
zone a little bit bigger. It is not going to be a deal killer for these companies and the
work that they are doing. Most of that two hundred fifty (250) feet already does not
have things growing in it. This one hundred (100) feet is not meaningful in my
opinion. I am done.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Members, I will take discussion
on this from each member on this amendment before we call for the vote. JoAnn, do
you want to speak?
Ms. Yukimura: Where is the Waimea River?
Mr. Bynum: It is not on this parcel. This is
Kekaha/Mana.
Ms. Yukimura: My point is that you are not showing the
issues where there are actually more houses and more conflicted areas, so we
cannot really— yes, right here it does not look like there is any problem but in the
others, there may be. Also, if you are willing to go to nothing on a roadway, what
difference does it make between one hundred (100) feet and two hundred (200) feet?
Nothing on a roadway, as long as you have signage. Now I agree that there are
issues about park. The dwelling— if we are saying that the Conservation Plan has
to show definitely... and has to be developed so there is no drift on the dwelling, if
you adhere to the plan, then it seems to me that one hundred (100) feet is a good
buffer of safety beyond that. The park, I agree, is a judgment call and I hope when
we get better... if you do this for a park, then you have to exempt those crops that
are hedged and have a spray that is less than two (2) feet because it does not make
sense to have a two hundred fifty (250) feet buffer when it does not even go twenty
(20) feet.
Ms. Nakamura: Call for the question.
Mr. Hooser: I would like to get out of here, too, but this is
important. These buffer zones went from five hundred (500) feet to nothing. I think
it warrants a discussion about trying to split the difference and maybe go to two
hundred fifty (250) feet, if I may, Chair?
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Hooser, I indicated that we would go
around the table and everyone will have one chance.
Mr. Hooser: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: I do and I will respect the Vice Chair's call
for the question after everyone has one chance.
Mr. Hooser: I appreciate that. I did not mean to snap. It
has been a long night.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 200 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Chair Furfaro: You have the floor.
Mr. Hooser: Thank you. I stand by what I said. We
started with five hundred (500) feet and we started to look out for the public
interest. We end up with one hundred (100) feet because we do not want to cost
anybody any money. I think we should err on the side of caution for the community,
health, and the environment. Two hundred fifty (250) feet... five hundred feet (500)
feet is not enough. One hundred (100) feet is nothing and I would ask that we
seriously consider and vote in support of raising this to two hundred fifty (250) feet,
including the parks. We do not have to exempt hedges or low-spraying anything.
We can do what we want to do to protect the public in parks. That is where
children play and old people play, so I would just strongly encourage a vote in
support of this amendment. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Other members? On that note, I would like
to have a roll call vote on Mr. Bynum's amendment.
The motion to amend Bill No. 2491, Draft 1 as amended (Attachment E), was
then put, and carried by the following vote:
FOR AMENDMENT: Bynum, Hooser TOTAL — 2,
AGAINST AMENDMENT: Kagawa, Nakamura, Rapozo, Yukimura TOTAL — 4,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0,
SILENT: Furfaro TOTAL— 1.
Chair Furfaro: I am going to record my vote as a silent. I
want to point out the fact if we have our task force, this is an item that can continue
to be discussed within the task force. Please note me as a silent. Mr. Bynum you
have the floor.
Mr. Bynum: So that was 4:3?
Chair Furfaro: No, it was 3:4. JoAnn, you want the floor?
Ms. Yukimura: Yes. I just want to say...
Mr. Hooser: I thought the question was called.
Ms. Yukimura: We voted, right? I just want to say...
Chair Furfaro: I am recognizing her on a new item.
Ms. Yukimura: This is a potential new amendment. I am
open to two hundred fifty (250) feet on any park, but with an exemption for mature
crops with hedges.
Chair Furfaro: Is that written out?
Ms. Yukimura: No. I do not want to waste time, but if...
Mr. Bynum: It is not a waste of time.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay, then we will work on it.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 201 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Chair Furfaro: So we are going to work on it very quickly
here because there are no more amendments and I want to now go to the main
motion. We are on a ten (10) minute recess.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 2:28 a.m.
The meeting reconvened at 2:42 a.m., and proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: Councilwoman Yukimura, I am going to
reference this as amendment number six (6). Can everybody make note of that
reference? You have the floor.
Ms. Yukimura moved to amend Bill No. 2491, Draft 1 as circulated, as shown
in the Floor Amendment which is attached hereto as Attachment F,
seconded by Mr. Bynum.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Discussion?
Ms. Yukimura: Mr. Chair, you and everyone will see that the
buffer for parks would be two hundred fifty (250) feet except for mature orchards,
which are growing in a hedge-like manner. The sprays are from less than two (2)
feet high.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Is that posted up there, Scott? Thank
you. Let us turn on the overhead lights since it has been explained as such.
Members, I will give everyone an opportunity to speak one time on the
amendments. We will start with Mr. Hooser.
Mr. Hooser: I just had a question. This qualification is to
accommodate Kaua`i Coffee. Is that correct?
Ms. Yukimura: It is to accommodate any mature orchard
where crops grow in a hedge-like manner.
Mr. Hooser: I think the only company that will affect is
Kaua`i Coffee. Is that correct?
Ms. Yukimura: I think so.
Mr. Hooser: I just wanted to clarify that. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Are there other Councilmembers? JoAnn,
you have the floor.
Ms. Yukimura: I just want to say that when there is a
rational distinction that takes into account circumstances, it is my understanding
that this is permitted as law and it is not considered special legislation.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo, you have the floor.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think the
perception is not that, JoAnn. With all due respect, it is pretty clear and I think
that is one of the troubling parts of this entire Bill. How many of us actually went
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 202 OCTOBER 15, 2013
out and checked the sprayers of the other companies? That is where I think we run
into trouble when we start crafting legislation with a specific goal and objective, and
then as we move forward, we start making concessions for special groups. I think
that is where we ran into trouble should this be litigated, so I am not going to be
supporting the amendment.
Chair Furfaro: Any other member for the first time? No?
JoAnn, I am going to be asking you to speak for the last time, and then I am going
call for the vote.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you. I struggled with how we could
achieve protection while accommodating different circumstances, such as type of
spraying. That led me to create a permitting system specifically for the creation of
buffers that would take something like a Planning Commission that judged the
circumstances. But that required too much of a bureaucracy, so I have not proposed
it. When we have situations that require tailoring to achieve protection, but
balance for the operator, why would we have a five hundred (500) feet buffer for a
backpack sprayer? That is what it takes. Again, we are trying to do a balance here
and this is the best we can do given the time that we have to work on this.
Chair Furfaro: Any other members? If not, may I ask for
roll call vote?
The motion to amend Bill No. 2491, Draft 1 as amended (Attachment F), was
then put, and carried by the following vote:
FOR AMENDMENT: Bynum, Hooser, Kagawa, Nakamura,
Yukimura TOTAL — 5,
AGAINST AMENDMENT: Rapozo TOTAL — 1,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0,
SILENT: Furfaro TOTAL — 1.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. We have dealt with all of the
amendments to the Bill. I do want to ask you folks to please understand that I am
going to allow each Councilmember three (3) minutes to speak before I call for the
vote. There is a Councilmember that wishes to make a motion to defer. Is that
what I understand? You have the floor.
Ms. Nakamura: Thank you, Chair.
Ms. Yukimura: Maybe we should wait before a motion to
defer because a deferral allows no discussion.
Chair Furfaro: That is right.
Ms. Nakamura: Okay.
Ms. Yukimura: Can we have some discussion before you
make the motion?
Ms. Nakamura: Sure. I am proposing this just because I
know that in a few weeks, I am going to have to be involved in implementing this
law. I believe based on the Transient Vacation Rental experience that if we do not
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 203 OCTOBER 15, 2013
pay attention to how we enforce the laws that this body creates, we run into a lot of
problems. Just in the number of contested case hearings that are as a result of not
good implementation, the number of appeals that our County Attorneys have to
deal with, the hearings for renewals, cease and desist orders all because we did not
pay attention to the implementation of a law. The Mayor asked for time to
establish and clarify roles and responsibilities to develop a memorandum of
agreement, a cooperative agreement, and I just feel that we should— this is not a
political ploy as people have made it out to be. The killing of this Bill or standing
down to bullies; this is about really taking a close look and developing relationships
with the State entities that we have to work with to implement this law.
Unfortunately, that is something that I need to consider. I am just putting that on
the table.
Chair Furfaro: I want to make sure we understand that if
there is a second upfront before there is discussion, it will kill the discussion. I
want to make sure that we allow for some discussion from each member. JoAnn,
did you want to say anything?
Ms. Yukimura: I would like to let others go first.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Hooser, you have the floor.
Mr. Hooser: I am flabbergasted to put it mildly after
getting here to ten (10) minutes until it is 3:00 a.m., looking through all these
amendments, and having the Vice Chair lead the efforts on the amendments. Then
to hear support for the Mayor's deferral after we had such extended discussion
earlier— I am flabbergasted and disappointed. It is no question, and this is not to
put to anybody's personal intent, but a motion to defer in my opinion is a motion to
kill the Bill. Again, it is not to intent— if the audience could please bear with me,
this is my opinion. I think if we defer this Bill given the circumstances of a change
on the Council, it will be deferred again. If we wait for the Department of
Agriculture, it will be deferred again. We have come so far and this community has
come so far. Some of these people have been here for three (3) days; thirty-six (36)
hours. They are counting on us to do what is our responsibility. We have talked
about it for months. The genesis of this Bill is about a year. We have crafted
amendments which significantly weakened the Bill, and we continue to weaken the
Bill while catering to the industry. I have accepted that. As disappointed as I am, I
have accepted that because the core of what we need to do, the right to know, is still
intact. We cannot count on the State to do this. We cannot count on the Mayor to
do this. We cannot count on Russell Kokubun to do this. It is up to us. I am
hopeful that we will not have the votes to sustain or to carry a vote to defer. I think
that would be just an affront is to put it mildly to our community and to the work
that we have done on this issue. That is it. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: So your intention is to vote for a deferral,
Nadine?
Ms. Nakamura: Yes, to make the motion for a deferral.
Mr. Bynum: So you would vote for it?
Ms. Nakamura: Yes.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 204 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Mr. Bynum: I do not even know how to respond to that,
but I have to respond from my heart. It is no secret that I am a huge supporter of
Nadine Nakamura. I have made positive statements about her leadership and her
work here many times. I am disappointed that she is not going to be here on the
Council to provide that leadership, but I honor the decision that she made to work
for the Mayor. Until you resign, you represent the people of Kaua`i and for you to
say that you have to consider that next week that you are going to work for the
Mayor and have to implement this is highly inappropriate and unethical. As soon
as you resign from this body, then you need to do the Mayor's bidding, but until
then, you already voted for this Bill, Nadine. You stated your intention as a
Councilmember. That is all I have to say.
Chair Furfaro: Other members? I guess I do want to share
something that I said earlier that I would like to vote on this Bill today. My reasons
are the fact that I think Mr. Hooser indicated that it is been watered down. I
indicate that it is focused on managing pesticides. It is about disclosure and
stewardship, which is a very important issue for those people that do business on
our island to understand— it is about stewardship. The Bill is substantially
different than when it was first introduced, quite frankly, Nadine, because of the
kind of work you did and the kind of contributions you made to the body that is the
steward for our island home; for this political subdivision. We could be challenged
legally. If we get challenged, we get challenged. It is in the court's hands. I never
found myself in a situation where I did not put the Bill on the agenda when it first
came to me by the two (2) individuals, but I have to share with you my sincere
desire to get this amended Bill passed out today and work from there. We gave the
amendments and we gave the Administration another three (3) months on the end
rather than the one (1) month they asked for here. If that requires us to contract
out some services because we have not hired the right professional people yet or
have not identified them, then we have to go to contract services. We have talent
on our island. Really, to me, I would like to pass this. I also want to say that I am
sending a message to the State. We need their kOkua, too. We need them to
allocate the resources for the responsibility that is in their pesticide bill and their
rules. We need their kOkua. I think that is what this Bill also says. I would hope I
can convince four (4) members here that we cannot defer this Bill, but pass it.
Nadine, I say this sincerely that your work has gotten us where we are at. It was
because of your effort, your contributions, and your stewardship that we are where
we are at for the right reasons for the right people. I would ask that we do not
defer. Other members? Mr. Kagawa.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you, Chair. I said it earlier, and to no
surprise, I feel like working with the State is going to help us in the long run.
Tomorrow they have a meeting with the State Department of Agriculture. What
kind of message does that send that we pass a Bill, working on amendments
seventeen (17) hours after the meeting just to rush it out today and tomorrow, when
they meet with the State Department of Agriculture, they will say, "Sorry, our
County already passed this Bill." It seems like it is easy for us to do it all by
ourselves, but let me tell you, there are a lot of workers that will be needed; way
more than the two (2) that we are hearing about. It would sure help the more help
we get from the State Department of Health and the State Department of
Agriculture. That is my opinion. I wish that the County Attorney's opinion could
get released and then maybe some of you would understand why I am saying what I
am saying, but unfortunately only I and Councilmember Rapozo believe that the
County Attorney's opinion is something that you all should see as well. Thank you.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 205 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Chair Furfaro: Is there any other member who wants to
speak? JoAnn?
Ms. Yukimura: I actually see, as I said in my guest
commentary today, that there are good reasons for delay if our goal is to have
Bill No. 2491 in effect because of the precariousness of our legal position. By my
guesstimate that we have a sixty/forty (60/40) chance that we are impliedly exempt
and if we could get a memorandum of understanding with the Department of
Agriculture; that could be an insurance if the Bill is kicked out of court. The
chances are slim, but I usually want to push the possibility as far as possible. As
the Chair was saying, this would be a chance to educate the State which has to be
involved in some way. However, if we come to the end of the month deferral and
there are no results, I want the assurance that...
Chair Furfaro: I need all of you to take a moment and to
realize that each member has an opportunity to speak. I also want you to reflect on
our sense of place. This is important. It is important for our community. Going
forward, one way or the other, we have not gotten to a vote on a deferral or not, but
I need to make sure that we all realize how important it is to be Kaua`i. Thank you.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you, Chair. I want you to see that
this is an example of what has been happening throughout this of jumping to
conclusions. Because I want to say that however, if we come to the end of the
month and there are no results, I wanted the assurance that we could pass the Bill
that is the same or similar as to the one before us. The Mayor has said that he will
not veto the Bill at the end of the month. However, I still need four (4) votes in
order to give this deferral a chance, but have the Bill passed ultimately. Without
Nadine Nakamura one (1) month from now, there are not going to be four (4) votes
to pass the Bill. I have been committed from the start to pass a Bill. At the
beginning, I said I expected a Bill to pass and expressed reservations about
provisions that are unworkable, or did not by my analysis, pass legal muster. I
worked with Council Vice Chair Nakamura to make this Bill as workable as
possible. That is why I cannot vote for a deferral today.
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me, JoAnn. I will give you one more
minute if you need the time. Do you need any more time? Now I am going to ask
all of you in the audience to please return to your seats. Even on our worst day on
Kaua`i, it is better than anywhere else. Let us remember that, please. This is the
process that we have. Please, return to your seats. Other members? No? I have
not heard a second.
Ms. Nakamura: I did not make the motion to defer.
Mr. Rapozo: Mr. Chair, I would ask for a recess.
Chair Furfaro: I am thinking about that, but I want to make
sure that everybody understands that there has been no motion and there has been
no second. There has been a discussion about the process of the deferral. If there is
no second, it has no precedent, and there is no vote. It does not look like we have a
second. It was not a formal motion; it was a query. I want to say to you folks that it
takes a lot of looking by all of us on very emotional items and we need to keep
ourselves in a position that is king ole, without flaw. We have to follow the
procedure. It is important as "Kauaians." Madame Clerk, we have no motion. I
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 206 OCTOBER 15, 2013
have members that have not used their three (3) minutes yet. Any further
discussion?
Mr. Rapozo: We are on the main Bill?
Chair Furfaro: Yes, we are on the main motion as amended.
Mr. Rapozo: I will make my comments now.
Chair Furfaro: You have the floor.
Mr. Rapozo: I am just going to ask the public to
understand that my position has not changed. I think Jeri DiPietro said earlier in
her testimony that the language for this Bill was drafted by experts in the field, and
she was right. The problem was that the experts in the field may not have been
familiar with the Hawai`i State Law. I know we keep talking about this
"memorandum of agreement," but Chapter 149(a) requires that memorandum of
agreement before the County or any non-Federal or non-State agency can, in fact,
regulate or enforce the State Pesticide Law. That is in the law. Like Mr. Kagawa
said, it is unfortunate that this Council decided not to release the County Attorney's
opinion because that is the basis for my vote. It is not fair that I am not able to
share that with the public, yet the public got a chance to see everybody else's
opinion except the County Attorney, who by our Charter is our legal representative.
I wish we would focus our energy at the State level. I know, like many of you, I
have very little confidence at the way the State has handled this issue. I will say
that there is movement. Whether you agree or disagree or whether you think it is
going to work or not work, the fact of the matter is that the State has a vehicle in
place to regulate and enforce. Mr. Kagawa and I went down to meet with the
Governor, and I know Mr. Kagawa has met with others as well, but there is
movement. We will get positions on the island. We will have the ability to start to
enforce and bring the community's concerns into the State law and to the
Administrative Rules. I think Mr. Hooser said it would take one (1) year to change
an Administrative Rule. Well, this Bill if passed would take nine (9) months before
it even gets enacted, and then from that point, it takes a substantial amount of time
to get this Bill moving or the law moving.
As I stated in the Committee Meeting a while ago, my interest, goal, or desire
was not necessarily to say that I was responsible for passing a Bill that was going to
make the news. It was never that. It was how do we get the community's concerns
addressed? How can we get the buffer zones and the disclosure done through a
vehicle that cannot be challenged, which is the State law? It is already the State
law. Rather than try to recreate the wheel— it is troubling when I hear comments
like, "Let us pass the Bill and wait for the lawsuit to figure out if we are right or
wrong." That is not the way to do business in my opinion. There is a legal issue
and unfortunately I cannot share it with you because this Council decided not to
release the opinion. It is very difficult in my position to cop convey the reasons for
not supporting the Bill because a lot of it is contained in that opinion.
The other big disappointment is the Attorney General. The Attorney General
refused or declined to prepare an opinion for us and Hawai`i island— outright
refused. Yet, it is a jurisdictional issue that is related to the State law and for the
Attorney General to come and say, "We are not going opine." I have not given up on
him, but I think it is a shame and it is a real, what I consider, blatant display of
disrespect to our island. I hope he gets to hear that one (1) day. I know I did
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 207 OCTOBER 15, 2013
mention that to the Governor, but the Attorney General choose not to respond. It is
frustrating for me because we did not get any legal guidance from the State. I get to
rely on my personal knowledge, my personal due diligence, and the County
Attorney's opinion that I cannot release.
Finally, it is a concern that this Bill appears to target a certain industry. It
is a pesticide bill, but yet it does not deal with pesticides except for the pesticides
with the GMO companies. The fact of the matter is that this County has no
jurisdiction at all— and that one; you talk about a Federal preemption as far as
GMOs. Everybody has an opinion on GMOs, but we utilize the shell of a bill for
pesticides, but it does not affect anybody else that uses pesticides like resorts and
golf courses. I stated that earlier today. Yet, if you look at our resort golf courses,
you see them right up against residential properties. That is not a concern. If you
look at the Bill, it is not. It is simply targeted for the seed companies. I believe that
is where we are going to suffer in court. There are some major issues that go well
beyond whether or not the State has jurisdiction or we have jurisdiction, but there
are other legal issues that come into play that we have pretty much ignored, and we
cannot have the discussion. It is not as simple as just passing a bill, hiring two (2)
people, and they will go out and heal the world. Not in this town. I think you guys
know that. It is a great thing and I am almost positive this Bill will pass. My job is
to represent the County, as well, and to make sure that this body does not do
anything that puts the County at exposure. I am not talking about pesticide
exposure; I am talking about exposure to liability and lawsuits. There is a way to
reach the goals and objectives of the people that would limit that, but this Council
has chosen this route and I respect the decision. I always say that the right
decision is always made on this body because the majority prevails. I am sure that
will happen today. Mr. Chair, I think you let me go beyond the three (3) minutes
and I appreciate that, but I just wanted to explain the reasons why I will not be
supporting the Bill. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Understood. Again, members, I am going to
allow three (3) minutes for your comments on the Bill before I call for the vote.
Mr. Hooser.
Mr. Hooser: Chair, thank you very much. I want to
spend my three (3) minutes thanking you. It has been a long day today and you
have done a fabulous job as Chair and I just commend you for holding it steady all
the way through. I would also like to thank Jenelle Hughes, who is our Staff
member. Jenelle, raise your hand for a second. This woman has done a fabulous
job. I think it is okay to clap, really. She started brand new and got introduced to
me and this Bill, and she did not know what she was getting into. She has held it
all the way through and has been working with us all. Thank you, Jenelle. Thank
you to the entire Staff. It has been a lot of long hours, a lot of long days, and a lot of
stress. I thank Councilmember Bynum who co-introduced this with me and has
worked long and hard with me on this. Thank you, Councilmember Bynum and all
of the Councilmembers for the work that they put into it. It was stated earlier— I
think Jeri misspoke when she said this Bill was put together by experts. I think
she meant experts looked at this Bill, but this Bill is a people's Bill. This Bill
started in the living room of Sol Kahn eleven (11) months ago. Sol, Fern Rosentiel,
and a handful of other people said, "Gary, can you do something? Can you help?" I
said, "I know what I can do. Maybe I can do disclosure and maybe we can do this."
From that moment forward, the people of this island who have taken ownership of
this Bill and have taken ownership of the issue, and brought us to where we are at
today. I am not happy with a lot of the Bill, but we got two (2) things that we
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 208 OCTOBER 15, 2013
worked really hard for and two (2) things that the industry fought us hard, hard,
hard for— the right to know. They still have not told us the chemicals that they are
spraying, but they will have to tell us when this takes effect. They fought that all
the way. The other thing they fought was the empowerment of our community. It
was said today in testimony that they were afraid that we were going to set an
example for other communities, and that is what we have done here today is set an
example for other communities. I am thankful to this Council for recognizing that.
We still have a lot of work to do, but those two (2) things alone are worth all of this
energy, time, and stress. I do not blame the audience for getting riled up. I really
do not. I know many of you slept on the sidewalks. You have spent day, after day,
after day and when you thought this was going to die, you got a little excited. I
understand that. It is not acceptable, but I understand it. It was an understandable
reaction. I just want to thank everyone. Again, I wish we could have had a
stronger Bill. There were roadblocks thrown up every single step of the way and we
have seemed to overcome those roadblocks. I would be remiss if I did not mention
this. There was one thing that came in today. This is a petition that was sent to me
by David Murphy, who is the founder of Food Democracy Now with forty-three
thousand (43,000) names of people from around the world who support this Bill.
Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Next member? Mr. Bynum, I am limiting
you to three (3) minutes. Go ahead.
Mr. Bynum: I want to thank everybody on this Council
that worked really hard. I want to thank the Mayor for coming and engaging
during this entire process, in my opinion. I disagreed with some of your positions,
Mayor, but I know you are sincere. I know we will work together for our
community. I am disappointed. I feel like we gave up a lot. That parcel I showed
was thirteen thousand one hundred twenty-eight (13,128) acres. One hundred fifty
(150) feet of extra buffer zone would have been nineteen (19) acres. Even a sense of
safety and security is worth nineteen (19) out of thirteen thousand (13,000) acres.
But, we are here where we are. I am going to support this Bill and we are going to
keep working together as a community to move forward on other issues. This has
been very emotional for me because I care about this community very deeply. I care
about my daughter who is four (4) months pregnant with her second child. I
listened to Dr. Richard when he said, "I cannot do justice to treating my patients on
the west side because I do not know." We are fixing that today, I think, and that is
really significant. I tend to be more concerned about our physicians and our
community members than I am how a few acres will impact these agricultural
entities. This Bill is not about GMO food safety for me. It was not about shutting
anybody down. It was about the practices that are happening here on Kaua`i that
are different than anywhere else in the Country, as far as I know, and they have
never been adequately studied. We are going to move forward with a study and I
am going to argue very strongly that it has to include an economic impact and
environmental justice component because to do less than that— anyway, thank you.
I am done. Everybody knows how I am going to vote.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Kagawa, you have the floor.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you, Chair. The day after the
Committee Meeting, I got a call from my high school football coach at Waimea and
Waimea is a pretty tight community. The first thing he asked me when he called
me up was, "Hey Ross, how come you voted for the Bill?" I told him we amended it,
and I counted the votes. It was either to vote 3:2 with Mel or come together and try
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 209 OCTOBER 15, 2013
to support something that was a compromise." He said, "Okay." Even though he
wanted me to vote "no" and make a stand for the west side and the workers there,
he understood that life is more than just posturing. I think it is coming together
when you know that something is not going your way and to make the best of it
from here on out. For me, my biggest help can be to work on the State end and
continue to work that fight because I do not believe it is a lost cause. I do believe
that I can get a lot of good to come out of it. I will be working with the Mayor and
Councilmember Rapozo, my buddy. We will continue to try and do things that
hopefully the County will not have to do. If we do end up in a lawsuit, we are
already working in the right direction. I will continue those efforts and I think it is
time to move on. We did a lot of good work and I thank the members for their
support.
Chair Furfaro: Is there any member that did not get to
speak? JoAnn?
Ms. Yukimura: I want to start by thanking our Staff because
they have been extraordinary and have put out far more than they have ever put
out, even though they put out a lot. Also, a special thanks to Jenelle who has been a
real trooper and a really effective Staff member, but all of the Staff together have
been very exemplary. I want to thank Councilmember Hooser and Councilmember
Bynum for introducing the Bill. I know it has created a lot of rifts and polarization,
but it took on an issue that needed to be addressed. I think it has created great
awareness in all sectors of our community and brought forth an issue that is very
important. I want to thank the people of Kaua`i who have supported the Bill so
passionately with so much love and energy. I want to also thank those who have
been against the Bill and the companies that have been part of this discussion
because they have put out a lot of effort, too. The workers truly love their
community as well. We needed all voices involved in making this decision. I want
to say thank you to Chair Furfaro for his excellent leadership and to Vice Chair
Nakamura for her incredible work on this Bill. It has been a privilege to work with
her. I want to thank Councilmembers Rapozo and Kagawa because their questions
and actions represent a good portion of our community, too, that needed to be heard
and their thoughts have been very important in this process.
It seems like a lot of the original bill has been removed, but I feel like the core
has been kept. The majority of the people have come to this place of disclosure,
buffers, and pesticides. I hope that this will take us to legally establish the
County's right to deal with these matters and will give us experience in enforcing
the provisions. Then I look forward to the study, which is so critical to address
these very urgent concerns and will then help us to be more effective in addressing
these issues. Thank you all. As you know, I will be voting for this Bill.
Chair Furfaro: Did you want to speak? You have the floor.
Ms. Nakamura: I think everybody has said everything that I
wanted to say, so ditto to everything JoAnn said to everyone around this table. I
just wanted to personally thank Phoebe Eng and thank you very much for letting
me hear the voices of the west side. To Matt Snowden, who brought me the voices
of the teachers; thank you very much. Also, to the companies who educated me
about their practices. JoAnn and I really tried to craft something that we thought
would be a middle ground that nobody is really happy with it. I do not think anyone
in this room is totally happy with this Bill, but I think this is what we needed to
move forward and to take a step in this direction to make a statement of concern. I
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 210 OCTOBER 15, 2013
hope we can all move forward together. Thank you for your patience throughout
this whole process.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. I think everybody has spoken. I will
take my turn. First of all, I am very, very proud of Kaua`i; and my mo opuna and
my children. They trace their family back to the 1840s, the ranch and the Wainiha
power house. It is stewardship that we have on our island. I also want to apologize
a little bit for perhaps being a little direct with some of the Councilmembers about
getting us to where we need to be today. I also want to share with the public that
when I spoke to them at the break outside, I needed to make sure we understood we
need the time to do our job because by doing our job, we modeled the way. To the
seed companies, I want to make sure you understand that we have to envision the
future of our island. Your companies have their policies. We need to envision
Kaua`i in the future and this is a start for us. I also want to make sure for the GMO
people that see these issues as two (2) separate issues. The pesticide portion is a
pesticide issue. I do not have the science and technology to even understand
managing the GMO part, but I do believe we had a challenge about setting some
standards. Ross and Mel, I want to thank you for going to Honolulu because we
have to enable the State to do their part and their kuleana. The way we do it is
from building relationships and those two (2) gentlemen—they brought the urgency
to the State office for us. Thank you, gentlemen. To the two (2) ladies, the Bill has
gone through a large evolution. It is a lot different than what we started with, but it
is a starting point and I want to thank you for your work. Mr. Hooser and
Mr. Bynum; when you came to see me about putting this on the agenda, you were
convincing. I put it on agenda and you guys did a lot of work, and I want to thank
you for it. We are where we are. I will be supporting this Bill. I want to make sure
we understand that we have a long ways to go. Some of the things that JoAnn and
Nadine mentioned— there has to be collaboration between the Council, the
Administration, and of course, collaboration with the State. Mayor, we gave you the
extra three (3) months. I personally have faith in what you say today and I thank
you. I also thank you for having your Staff here. My sidekick and my
grandchildren also want to thank you because it is something that we have to do.
We have to do that. It is a start for us and we have to move cautiously but at the
same time, respectfully. On that note, I would like to call for the vote, but I would
like to remind everybody that we have additional business to do. You may leave the
room and we also have to close up the building and get our Staff out of the building.
If you want to go and talk story, please head outside just because we need to secure
this building.
Ms. Yukimura: Can I just say one more thank you?
Chair Furfaro: Sure.
Ms. Yukimura: Councilmember Nakamura's comments
reminded me that I also want to thank Andrea Brower, Elif Beall, Phoebe Eng, and
Stephanie Krieger for the support and the work.
Chair Furfaro: Mahalo to everyone. Madame Clerk, I would
like to call for the vote.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Chair, we need a motion to approve as
amended.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 211 OCTOBER 15, 2013
Mr. Hooser moved for adoption of Bill No. 2491, Draft 1, as amended, on second
and final reading, and that it be transmitted to the Mayor for his approval,
seconded by Mr. Bynum, and carried by the following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Bynum, Hooser, Kagawa, Yukimura,
Furfaro TOTAL— 5,
AGAINST ADOPTION: Rapozo TOTAL — 1,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0,
SILENT: Nakamura TOTAL — 1.
Chair Furfaro: We have six (6) ayes. Mayor, thank you. I
believe we have one more item left on our agenda. I am open to a deferral on the
Resolution. If there are amendments tonight, I would like to defer it. If there is a
straight vote, I would like to vote.
RESOLUTION:
Resolution No. 2013-72 — RESOLUTION TO IMPLEMENT AN
ENVIRONMENTAL AND PUBLIC HEALTH IMPACTS STUDY (EPHIS), VIA
FORMATION OF A PESTICIDE AND GENETIC ENGINEERING JOINT FACT
FINDING GROUP (JFFG): Mr. Rapozo moved for adoption of
Resolution No. 2013-72, seconded by Ms. Yukimura.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Hooser, you have the floor.
Mr. Hooser: Chair, I am not prepared to vote on this. We
have just seen this, did not have any discussion at all, and it has been a long night.
I have questions and I will have amendments that I would like to propose.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Any further discussion? Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: I would appreciate a deferral because this is
very serious and I am not prepared to do it tonight.
Chair Furfaro: Is there any further discussion?
Mr. Rapozo moved to defer Resolution No. 2013-72, seconded by Mr. Hooser.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. There is no discussion on a deferral.
Is the deferral date specific?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: This would be deferred to the regular
Council Meeting on November 6, 2013.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Is there anyone in the audience who
wants to give testimony on this? If not, it will appear again on our regular
November 6th meeting.
The motion to defer Resolution No. 2013-72 was then put, and unanimously
carried.
Chair Furfaro: I believe that concludes our business. Folks,
we are back here at 8:30 a.m. tomorrow. Thank you everyone.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 212 OCTOBER 15, 2013
ADJOURNMENT:
There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned on
March 16, 2013 at 3:37 a.m.
Re .ectfu y submitted,
JA G . OUNTAIN-TANIGAWA
Deputy County Clerk
:cy/aa
ATTAGNENT A
Draft 1, NN & JY#1 1 October 15, 2013
(Continued October 08, 2013 Meeting)
FLOOR AMENDMENT
Bill No. 2491, Draft 1, Relating to Pesticides and Genetically Modified Organisms
Introduced by: NADINE K. NAKAMURA and JOANN A. YUKIMURA
1. Amend Bill No. 2491, Draft 1 by amending the proposed Section 22-
22.1 as follows:
"Sec. 22-22.1 Findings.
[(a)] In order to establish provisions governing the use of pesticides and
genetically modified organisms (GMOs) by large-scale commercial agricultural
entities on Kaua`i, the Council finds that:
[(1)] Section 1, Article XI of the State Constitution states: "For
the benefit of present and future generations, the State and its political
subdivisions shall conserve and protect Hawai`i's natural beauty and all
natural resources, including land, water, air, minerals, and energy sources,
and shall promote the development and utilization of these resources in a
manner consistent with their conservation and in furtherance of the
self-sufficiency of the State. All public natural resources are held in trust by
the State for the benefit of the people."
[(2)] (b) The growth of commercial agricultural entities engaged in
the use and development of genetically modified organisms and the
widespread use of pesticides in the County of Kaua`i has created a situation
where residents live, work, and commute daily in close proximity to areas
where there is regular application of restricted use pesticides and general use
pesticides.
[(3)] There are increasing concerns about the direct and long-
term impacts of the large-scale use of pesticides, and the impacts that the
intense agricultural cultivation is having on the land, on the natural
environment, and on human health.
[(4)] (d) Hawaii Revised Statutes Section 46-1.5(13) states: "Each
county shall have the power to enact ordinances deemed necessary to protect
health, life, and property, and to preserve the order and security of the
county and its inhabitants on any subject or matter not inconsistent with, or
tending to defeat, the intent of any state statute where the statute does not
disclose an express or implied intent that the statute shall be exclusive or
uniform throughout the State."
[(5)] The County of Kaua`i has become a location of increasing
commercial agriculture operations that utilize genetically modified organisms
for the production of crop seed and field testing of new genetically modified
organisms.
[(6)] ff Genetically modified plants could potentially disperse into
the environment of the County of Kaua`i through pollen drift, seed
commingling, and inadvertent transfer of seeds by humans, animals, weather
events, and other means. This could have environmental and economic
impacts.
Draft 1, NN & JY#1 1 October 15, 2013
Draft 1, NN & JY#1 2 October 15, 2013
[(7)] (g) Records obtained from the State of Hawai`i Department of
Agriculture indicate that twenty-two (22) different restricted use pesticides,
comprising approximately 5,477.2 pounds, and 5,884.5 gallons, were used
during 2012 on Kaua`i by five (5) commercial agricultural entities, which
constituted approximately 99% of the restricted use pesticides utilized by
agricultural operations on Kaua`i.
[(8)] 101 In 2012, restricted use pesticides were used on Kaua`i by
agricultural operations (7,727 pounds, or 13%), county government
operations (28,350 pounds of Chlorine Liquefied Gas, or 49%), and non-
government operations for structural pest control (25,828 pounds, or 38%).
[(9)] Pesticides have the ability to contaminate groundwater,
and are often toxic to humans, animals, bees, and other insects. Some
restricted use pesticides are banned by the entire European Union.
[(10)] Dust and drift from both restricted use pesticides and
general use pesticides sometimes [travels] travel beyond commercial
agricultural operations. Dust, pesticide drift, and long-term exposure to toxic
chemicals are potential sources of pollution endangering human health and
the natural environment.
[(11)] (k) Hawai`i Revised Statutes Section 46-17 states: "Any
provision of law to the contrary notwithstanding, the council of any county
may adopt and provide for the enforcement of ordinances regulating or
prohibiting noise, smoke, dust, vibration, or odors which constitute a public
nuisance. No such ordinance shall be held invalid on the ground that it covers
any subject or matter embraced within any statute or rule of the State;
provided that in any case of conflict between a statute or rule and an
ordinance, the law affording the most protection to the public shall
apply . . . .,,
[(12)] f The impacts on the County of Kaua`i of large-scale
intensive cultivation and associated agricultural practices should be further
evaluated.
[(13)] (m) Information pertaining to the intensive use of
pesticides within the County of Kaua`i, and the experimentation and growing
of genetically modified organisms, is currently withheld from the public.
Thus, the public is unable to evaluate the full extent of the impacts on the
residents and environment of the County of Kaua`i.
[(14)] (n) In the interest of protecting the health of the people and
fragile natural environment of the County of Kaua`i, the people of the County
of Kaua`i have the right to know what pesticides are being used on a
significant scale, and whether or not genetically modified organisms are
being grown within the jurisdiction of the County of Kaua`i. The people of
the County of Kaua`i have the right to know the likely potential impacts on
their human health, and the health of their environment."
(o) It is the intent of the County to collaborate with the State of
Hawai`i Department of Agriculture to support the implementation and
enforcement of this Article."
Draft 1, NN & JY#1 2 October 15, 2013
Draft 1, NN & JY#1 3 October 15, 2013
2. Amend Bill No. 2491, Draft 1 by amending the proposed Section 22-
22.3 as follows:
"Sec. 22-22.3 Definitions. When used in this Article, the following
words or phrases shall have the meaning given in this Section unless it shall be
apparent from the context that another meaning is intended:
"Active ingredient" means:
[(1)] fal In the case of a pesticide other than a plant regulator,
defoliant, or desiccant, an ingredient which will prevent, destroy, repel, or
mitigate any pest;
[(2)] (b) In the case of a plant regulator, an ingredient which,
through physiological action, will accelerate or retard the rate of growth or
maturation or otherwise alter the behavior of ornamental or crop plants or
the produce thereof;
[(3)] In the case of a defoliant, an ingredient which will cause
the leaves or foliage to drop from a plant; and
[(4)] ,(01 In the case of a desiccant, an ingredient which will
artificially accelerate the drying of plant tissues.
"Adult family boarding home" means any family home providing for a fee,
twenty-four (24) hour living accommodations to no more than five (5) adults,
unrelated to the family, who are in need of minimal protective oversight care in
their daily living activities, in compliance with State of Hawai`i or County of Kaua`i
licensing requirements, or both.
"Adult family group living home" means any family home providing twenty-
four (24) hour living accommodations for a fee to five (5) to eight (8) elderly,
handicapped, developmentally disabled, or totally disabled adults, unrelated to the
family, who are in need of long-term minimal assistance and supervision in the
adult's daily living activities, health care, and behavior management, in compliance
with State of Hawai`i or County of Kaua`i licensing requirements, or both.
["Ahupua a" means a land division usually extending from the uplands to the
sea.]
"Agriculture" means the breeding, planting, nourishing, caring for, gathering
and processing of any animal or plant organism for the purpose of nourishing people
or any other plant or animal organism; or for the purpose of providing the raw
material for non-food products. For the purposes of this Article, "agriculture" shall
include the growing of flowers and other ornamental crops and the commercial
breeding and caring for animals as pets.
"Ahupua a" means a land division usually extending from the uplands to the
sea.
"Certified pesticide applicator" means any individual who is certified under
Hawai`i Revised Statues Section 149A-33(1) as authorized to use or supervise the
use of any pesticide which is classified for restricted use.
Draft 1, NN & JY#1 3 October 15, 2013
Draft 1, NN & JY#1 4 October 15, 2013
"Commercial agricultural entity" means a firm, corporation, association,
partnership, or any organized group of persons, whether incorporated or not, that is
engaged in growing, developing, cultivating, or producing agricultural products.
"County" means the County of Kaua`i.
"Crop" means a plant or product thereof that can be grown and harvested for
subsistence, profit, or research.
"Day care center" means any facility where seven (7) or more children under
the age of eighteen (18) are cared for without overnight accommodations at any
location other than their normal place of residence, in compliance with State of
Hawai`i or County of Kaua`i licensing requirements, or both. This term includes
child care services and other similar uses and facilities consistent with this
definition, and not covered by the "Family child care home" definition.
"DOA" means the State of Hawai`i Department of Agriculture.
"Dwelling" means a building or portion thereof designed or used exclusively
for residential occupancy and having all necessary facilities for permanent
residency such as living, sleeping, cooking, eatingg, and sanitation.
"Environment" includes water, air, land, and all plants and humans and
other animals living therein, and the interrelationships which exist among these.
"EPA" means the United States Environmental Protection Agency.
"Experimental genetically modified organisms" means organisms that have
not received final approval by the Federal Food & Drug Administration, United
States Department of Agriculture, United States Environmental Protection Agency,
or the appropriate federal regulatory body, for human consumption, release into the
environment, or both.
"Family care home" means any care home occupied by not more than five (5)
care home residents, in compliance with State of Hawaii or County of Kaua`i
licensing requirements, or both.
"Family child care home" means providing child care services and other
similar uses consistent with this definition where six (6) or fewer children under the
age of eighteen (18) are cared for in a private dwelling unit without overnight
accommodations at any location other than the children's normal place of residence,
in compliance with State of Hawai`i or County of Kaua`i licensing requirements, or
both.
"FDA" means the Federal Food & Drug Administration.
"General use pesticide" means a pesticide other than one designated as a
restricted use pesticide.
"Genetically modified" means produced from an organism or organisms in
which the genetic material has been genetically engineered through the application
of:
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Draft 1, NN & JY#1 5 October 15, 2013
[(1)] fal In vitro nucleic acid techniques, which include, but are
not limited to: recombinant deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) techniques; direct
injection of nucleic acid into cells or organelles; encapsulation; gene deletion;
and doubling; or
[(2)] (b) Methods of fusing cells beyond the taxonomic family that
overcome natural physiological reproductive or recombinant barriers, and
that are not techniques used in traditional breeding and selection such as
conjugation, transduction, and hybridization.
For purposes of this definition:
[(3)] "In vitro nucleic acid techniques" include, but are not
limited to, recombinant DNA or RNA techniques that use vector systems and
techniques involving the direct introduction into the organisms of hereditary
materials prepared outside the organisms such as micro-injection, macro-
injection, chemoporation, electroporation, micro-encapsulation, and
liposomefusion.
[(4)] (d) An animal that has not itself been genetically modified,
regardless of whether such animal has been fed or injected with any food or
any drug that has been produced through means of genetic modification,
shall not be considered "genetically modified" for purposes of this Article.
"Genetically modified organism" means an organism or organisms whose
genetic material has been genetically modified.
"Ground cover" means small plants such as salal, ivy, ferns, mosses, grasses,
or other types of vegetation that normally cover the ground and includes trees and
shrubs less than six (6) inches in diameter.
"Medical facility" means a facility licensed by the State of Hawai`i to provide
medical services.
"Nursing home" means a facility established for profit or nonprofit, which
provides nursing care and related medical services on a twenty-four (24) hour per
day basis to two (2) or more individuals because of illness, disease, or physical or
mental infirmity, in compliance with State of Hawai`i or County of Kaua`i licensing
requirements, or both.
"OED" means the County of Kauai Office of Economic Development.
"Orchard" means the establishment, care, and harvesting of over twenty-five
(25) fruit-bearing trees, including, but not limited to, banana, coffee, guava, papaya,
or persimmon, for the purpose of selling the fruit to others.
"Organism" means any biological entity capable of replication, reproduction,
or transferring genetic material.
"Park" means any park, park roadway, playground, beach right-of-way, or
other recreational areas under the control, management, and operation of the
County of Kaua`i or State of Hawai`i."
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Draft 1, NN & JY#1 6 October 15, 2013
"Perennial waterway" means a natural waterway that has continuous flow in
parts of its waterway bed year round during years of normal rainfall.
"Pest" means any insect, rodent, nematode, fungus, weed, or any other form
of terrestrial or aquatic plant or animal life or virus, bacterium, or any other
microorganism, except viruses, bacterium, or any other microorganisms on or in
living humans or other living animals, which the Administrator of the United
States Environmental Protection Agency determines to be a pest.
"Pesticide" means any substance or mixture of substances intended for
preventing, destroying, repelling, or mitigating any pest, and any substance or
mixture of substances intended for use as an attractant, plant regulator, defoliant,
or desiccant. A product shall be deemed to be a pesticide regardless of whether it is
intended for use as packaged, or as a dilution or mixture with substances such as
carriers or baits. Products not considered pesticides include:
[(1)] kal Deodorants, bleaching agents, and cleaning agents for
which no pesticidal claims are made or implied;
[(2)] (b) Embalming fluids;
[(3)] Building materials which have been treated to protect the
material itself against any pest and bear no claims for protection of other
surfaces or objects;
[(4)] Fabrics which have been treated to protect the fabric
itself from insects, fungi, or any other pests;
[(5)] Fertilizer and other plant nutrients; and
[(6)] ff Products intended only for use after further processing or
manufacturing such as grinding to dust or other operations.
"Public roadway" means a roadway on which the public is allowed to
generally travel in a vehicle without obtaining special permission, or providing
advance notice.
"Registered beekeeper" means a person registered with the Hawai`i Apiary
Program, through the State of Hawai`i Department of Agriculture.
"Residential care home" means any care home facility occupied by more than
five (5) care home residents, in compliance with State of Hawai`i or County of Kaua`i
licensing requirements, or both.
"Restricted-entry interval" means the time after the end of a pesticide
application during which entry into the treated area is restricted, as contained
within the Worker Protection Standard for Agricultural Pesticides regulation
established by the Environmental Protection Agency, and specified on all
agricultural plant pesticide product labels.
"Restricted use pesticide" means:
[(1)] ) A pesticide or pesticide use classified by the
Administrator of the United States Environmental Protection Agency for use
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Draft 1, NN & JY#1 7 October 15, 2013
by certified applicators or competent persons under their direct supervision
and so designated on the label of the pesticide; or
[(2)] (b) A pesticide or pesticide use classified by the Hawai`i
Board of Agriculture for use by certified applicators or competent persons
under their direct supervision.
"School" means an institution with an organized curriculum offering
instruction.
"Shoreline" means the upper reaches of the wash of the waves, other than
storm and seismic waves, at high tide during the season of the year in which the
highest wash of the waves occurs, usually evidenced by the edge of vegetation
growth, or the upper limit of debris left by the wash of the waves.
"USDA" means the United States Department of Agriculture.
"Worker protection standard" means the Worker Protection Standard for
Agricultural Pesticides regulation established by the Environmental Protection
Agency, which is aimed at reducing the risk of pesticide poisonings and injuries
among agricultural workers and pesticide handlers, and contains requirements for
pesticide safety training, notification of pesticide applications, use of personal
protective equipment, restricted-entry intervals after pesticide application,
decontamination supplies, and emergency medical assistance."
3. Amend Bill No. 2491, Draft 1 by amending the proposed Section 22-
22.4 as follows:
"Sec. 22-22.4 Mandatory Disclosure of Pesticides, and
Genetically Modified Organisms.
(a) It shall be mandatory for all commercial agricultural entities that
[annually purchase or use] purchased or used in excess of five (5) pounds or fifteen
(15) gallons of [restricted use pesticides] any single restricted use pesticide during
[any] the prior calendar year to disclose the use of all pesticides during [that same]
the following calendar year. Disclosure requirements include:
(1) Worker Protection Standard. Posting of warning signs in the
area in which pesticides are to be applied no sooner than twenty-four (24)
hours before the scheduled application of any pesticide. Posting of warning
signs during and after the application of any pesticide shall conform to the
official label of the pesticide. Posting of warning signs at the time of
application shall conform to the worker protection standard established by
the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), and shall remain posted until
expiration of the applicable restricted-entry interval established by the EPA.
The size of all signs, and the symbols and wording on all signs, shall conform
to the worker protection standard established by the EPA. A posting
notification area shall be provided daily for workers, and shall conform to the
worker protection standard established by the EPA, and the State of Hawai`i.
(2) Pesticide Pre-Application "Good Neighbor Courtesy Notices."
Pesticide [Pre-application] pre-application notification must be provided to
any requesting registered beekeeper, property owner, lessee, or person
otherwise occupying any property within 1,500 feet from the property line of
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Draft 1, NN & JY#1 8 October 15, 2013
the commercial agricultural entity where any pesticide is anticipated to be
applied. A mass notification list shall be established and maintained by each
commercial agricultural entity, and shall include access to a legible map
showing all field numbers and any key, legend, or other necessary map
descriptions. Any interested registered beekeeper, property owner, lessee, or
person otherwise occupying any property within 1,500 feet from the property
line of the operation of any commercial agricultural entity, shall submit
contact information to the relevant commercial agricultural entity. These
interested persons may submit up to three (3) local telephone numbers, and
two (2) e-mail addresses. All mass notification messages shall be sent via
telephone, text message, or e-mail, with the method or methods of
transmittal to be determined by each commercial agricultural entity. Each
commercial agricultural entity shall provide an alternative method of
transmittal for any recipient who does not have access to the technology
necessary for the method or methods of transmittal selected by the
commercial agricultural entity. Requests to be included on, or removed from,
the mass notification list must be processed within three (3) business days.
These "good neighbor courtesy notices" shall contain the following
information regarding all anticipated pesticide applications: pesticide to be
used, active ingredient of pesticide to be used, date, time, and field number.
(A) Scheduled Weekly Applications. Each commercial
agricultural entity shall send regular mass notification messages at
least once during every seven (7) day week period summarizing the
anticipated application of any pesticide for the upcoming seven (7) day
week.
(B) Unforeseen Pest Threat Necessary Applications.
Whenever a pesticide application that was unforeseen and therefore
not contained in the weekly "good neighbor courtesy notice" is deemed
by the commercial agricultural entity to be necessary to alleviate a
pest threat, an additional "good neighbor courtesy notice" shall be
generated to all recipients of the mass notification list within
twenty-four (24) hours after the application.
(3) Pesticide Post-Application Weekly Public Disclosure. Each
commercial agricultural entity shall submit regular public disclosure reports
once during every seven (7) day week period compiling the actual application
of all pesticides during the prior week. These weekly public disclosure
reports shall contain the following information regarding all actual pesticide
applications: date; time; field number; total acreage; pesticide used; active
ingredient of pesticide used; gallons or pounds of pesticide used; and
temperature, wind direction, and wind speed at time of pesticide application.
Each commercial agricultural entity shall submit all public disclosure reports
to the County of Kaua`i Office of Economic Development (OED), and shall
include online access to a legible map showing all field numbers and any key,
legend, or other necessary map descriptions for all applicable commercial
agricultural entities. All public disclosure reports shall be posted online, and
available for viewing and download by any interested persons. OED shall
develop a standardized reporting form.
(b) It shall be mandatory for all commercial agricultural entities that
intentionally or knowingly possess any genetically modified organism to disclose the
[presence of] growing of said genetically modified organism.
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(1) Annual public reports [of all genetically modified organisms
intentionally or knowingly possessed during each calendar year] shall be
provided to the Office of Economic Development and the State of Hawai`i
Department of Agriculture (DOA), and shall be posted online on the County
website. Direct notification to [the Department] OED and DOA documenting
such disclosure shall occur no later than sixty (60) days following the end of
each calendar year.
(2) Disclosure shall include a general description of each genetically
modified organism (e.g., "GMO Corn" or "GMO Soy"), a general description of
the geographic location including at minimum the Tax Map Key and
ahupua a where each genetically modified organism is being grown or
developed, and dates that each genetically modified organism was initially
introduced to the land in question."
4. Amend Bill No. 2491, Draft 1 by amending the proposed Section 22-
22.5 as follows:
"Sec. 22-22.5 Pesticide Buffer Zones.
(a) [Effective January 1, 2014 it] It shall be mandatory for all commercial
agricultural entities that [annually purchase or use] purchased or used in excess of
five (5) pounds or fifteen (15) gallons of [restricted use pesticides] any single
restricted use pesticide during [any] the prior calendar year to restrict the growing
of crops, except ground cover to which no pesticide is applied, and thereby restrict
the application of all pesticides in the following areas:
(1) [No pesticide of any kind may be used] No crops may be grown
within 500 feet of any school, medical facility, adult family boarding home,
adult family group living home, day care center, family care home, family
child care home, nursing home, or residential care home.
(2) [No pesticide of any kind may be used] No crops may be grown
within 100 feet of any park.
(3) [No pesticide of any kind may be used] No crops may be grown
within 500 feet of any dwelling, [except that if the commercial agricultural
entity has an approved Soil and Water Conservation Plan that explicitly
addresses pesticide drift on the dwelling, then no pesticide of any kind may
be used within 100 feet of any dwelling.] unless:
(A) The commercial agricultural entity has an approved Soil
and Water Conservation Plan that explicitly demonstrates no pesticide
drift on the dwelling, then no crops may be grown within 100 feet of
any dwelling; or
(B) The dwelling is owned by the landowner, and occupied by
the landowner or a family member of the landowner, and there are no
other dwellings occupied by third-parties within 500 feet of the
landowner dwelling, then there shall be no pesticide buffer zone
restricting growing of crops in proximity to the landowner dwelling; or
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Draft 1, NN & JY#1 10 October 15, 2013
(C) Regarding a mature orchard, the crops of which grow in a
hedge-like manner creating a windbreak effect, if pesticide application
occurs between crop rows from a source no higher than two (2) feet
from the ground, for the purpose of eliminating weeds in the ground,
then no crops may be grown within 75 feet of any dwelling.
(4) [No pesticide of any kind may be used] No crops may be grown
within 100 feet of any public roadway, except that this restriction shall not
apply to any existing orchard, provided that the orchard posts roadway signs
along the roadway no sooner than twenty-four (24) hours before the
scheduled application. Roadway signs shall be located at the start and end of
the field along the public roadway where application will occur, and shall
comply with all State of Hawai`i Department of Transportation requirements.
(5) [No pesticide of any kind may be used] No crops may be grown
within 100 feet of any shoreline or perennial waterway that flows into the
ocean. This provision shall not apply to any irrigation ditch that does not
flow to the ocean. [This provision shall not apply to any specific instance
where the State of Hawai`i Department of Agriculture has authorized such
pesticide use for public health purposes.]
(b) The provisions in Section 22-22.5(a) shall not apply to any specific
instance where any County, State, or Federal government agency has authorized
such pesticide use for public health or safety purposes.
[(b)] If this Section, or any part thereof, is determined to conflict with
any pesticide labeling information [pertaining to such pesticides (restricted use,
general use, or experimental)], the more restrictive and environmentally protective
provisions shall apply."
5. Amend Bill No. 2491, Draft 1 by amending the proposed Section 22-
22.8 as follows:
"Sec. 22-22.8 Rulemaking.
In order to effectuate all provisions of this Article, the Office of Economic
Development may engage in any rulemaking it deems necessary or proper, utilizing
the provisions of Hawai`i Revised Statutes Chapter 91. In so doing, OED is
authorized to collaborate with the State of Hawaii Department of Agriculture."
6. Amend Bill No. 2491, Draft 1 by amending the proposed SECTION 4
as follows:
"SECTION 4. This ordinance shall take effect [six (6)] nine (9) months
after its approval."
(Material to be deleted is bracketed. New material to be added is underscored.)
V:\AMENDMENTS\2012-2014 term\Bill No. 2491, Draft 1 NN&JY#1 10-15-2013 JH
Draft 1, NN & JY#1 10 October 15, 2013
ATTAR B
Draft 1, GH#1 1 October 15, 2013
(Continued October 08, 2013 Meeting)
FLOOR AMENDMENT
Bill No. 2491, Draft 1, Relating to Pesticides and Genetically Modified Organisms
Introduced by: GARY L. HOOSER
1. Amend Bill No. 2491, Draft 1 by amending the proposed
Section 22-22.1 as follows:
"Sec. 22-22.1 Findings.
[(a)] In order to establish provisions governing the use of pesticides and
genetically modified organisms (GMOs) by large-scale commercial agricultural
entities on Kaua`i, the Council finds that:
[(1)] Section 1, Article XI of the State Constitution states: "For
the benefit of present and future generations, the State and its political
subdivisions shall conserve and protect Hawai`i's natural beauty and all
natural resources, including land, water, air, minerals, and energy sources,
and shall promote the development and utilization of these resources in a
manner consistent with their conservation and in furtherance of the
self-sufficiency of the State. All public natural resources are held in trust by
the State for the benefit of the people."
[(2)] (b) The growth of commercial agricultural entities engaged in
the use and development of genetically modified organisms and the
widespread use of pesticides in the County of Kaua`i has created a situation
where residents live, work, and commute daily in close proximity to areas
where there is regular application of restricted use pesticides and general use
pesticides.
[(3)] There are increasing concerns about the direct and
long-term impacts of the large-scale use of pesticides, and the impacts that
the intense agricultural cultivation is having on the land, on the natural
environment, and on human health.
[(4)] Hawai`i Revised Statutes Section 46-1.5(13) states: "Each
county shall have the power to enact ordinances deemed necessary to protect
health, life, and property, and to preserve the order and security of the
county and its inhabitants on any subject or matter not inconsistent with, or
tending to defeat, the intent of any state statute where the statute does not
disclose an express or implied intent that the statute shall be exclusive or
uniform throughout the State."
[(5)] The County of Kaua`i has become a location of increasing
commercial agriculture operations that utilize genetically modified organisms
for the production of crop seed and field testing of new genetically modified
organisms.
[(6)] Genetically modified plants could potentially disperse into
the environment of the County of Kaua`i through pollen drift, seed
commingling, and inadvertent transfer of seeds by humans, animals, weather
events, and other means. This could have environmental and economic
impacts.
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[(7)] (g) Records obtained from the State of Hawai`i Department of
Agriculture indicate that twenty-two (22) different restricted use pesticides,
comprising approximately 5,477.2 pounds, and 5,884.5 gallons, were used
during 2012 on Kaua`i by five (5) commercial agricultural entities, which
constituted approximately 99% of the restricted use pesticides utilized by
agricultural operations on Kaua`i.
[(8)] In 2012, restricted use pesticides were used on Kaua`i by
agricultural operations (7,727.20 pounds and 5,892.5 gallons, or 13%), county
government operations (28,350 pounds and zero (0) gallons of Chlorine
Liquefied Gas for water treatment, or 49%), and non-government operations
for structural pest control termite treatment (25,828 pounds and 20 gallons,
or 38%). Of the three (3) categories, only agricultural operations involve the
open air application of large amounts of multiple types of restricted use
pesticides and general use pesticides in an uncontained environment, over
large areas of open land where windy conditions and drift may occur.
[(9)] Pesticides have the ability to contaminate groundwater,
and are often toxic to humans, animals, bees, and other insects. Some
restricted use pesticides are banned by the entire European Union.
[(10)] Dust and drift from both restricted use pesticides and
general use pesticides sometimes [travels] travel beyond commercial
agricultural operations. Dust, pesticide drift, and long-term exposure to toxic
chemicals are potential sources of pollution endangering human health and
the natural environment.
[(11)] (k) Hawai`i Revised Statutes Section 46-17 states: "Any
provision of law to the contrary notwithstanding, the council of any county
may adopt and provide for the enforcement of ordinances regulating or
prohibiting noise, smoke, dust, vibration, or odors which constitute a public
nuisance. No such ordinance shall be held invalid on the ground that it covers
any subject or matter embraced within any statute or rule of the State;
provided that in any case of conflict between a statute or rule and an
ordinance, the law affording the most protection to the public shall
apply . . . .,,
[(12)] The impacts on the County of Kaua`i of large-scale
intensive cultivation and associated agricultural practices should be further
evaluated.
[(13)] (m) Information pertaining to the intensive use of pesticides
within the County of Kaua`i, and the experimentation and growing of
genetically modified organisms, is currently withheld from the public. Thus,
the public is unable to evaluate the full extent of the impacts on the residents
and environment of the County of Kaua`i.
[(14)] In the interest of protecting the health of the people and
fragile natural environment of the County of Kaua`i, the people of the County
of Kaua`i have the right to know what pesticides are being used on a
significant scale, and [whether or not] what genetically modified organisms
are being grown within the jurisdiction of the County of Kaua`i. The people
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of the County of Kaua`i have the right to know the likely potential impacts on
their human health, and the health of their environment."
2. Amend Bill No. 2491, Draft 1 by amending the proposed
Section 22-22.3 as follows:
"Sec. 22-22.3 Definitions. When used in this Article, the following
words or phrases shall have the meaning given in this Section unless it shall be
apparent from the context that another meaning is intended:
"Active ingredient" means:
[(1)] (a) In the case of a pesticide other than a plant regulator,
defoliant, or desiccant, an ingredient which will prevent, destroy, repel, or
mitigate any pest;
[(2)] (b) In the case of a plant regulator, an ingredient which, through
physiological action, will accelerate or retard the rate of growth or
maturation or otherwise alter the behavior of ornamental or crop plants or
the produce thereof;
[(3)] (c) In the case of a defoliant, an ingredient which will cause the
leaves or foliage to drop from a plant; and
[(4)] (d) In the case of a desiccant, an ingredient which will artificially
accelerate the drying of plant tissues.
"Adult family boarding home" means any family home providing for a fee,
twenty-four (24) hour living accommodations to no more than five (5) adults,
unrelated to the family, who are in need of minimal protective oversight care in
their daily living activities, in compliance with State of Hawai`i or County of Kaua`i
licensing requirements, or both.
"Adult family group living home" means any family home providing
twenty-four (24) hour living accommodations for a fee to five (5) to eight (8) elderly,
handicapped, developmentally disabled, or totally disabled adults, unrelated to the
family, who are in need of long-term minimal assistance and supervision in the
adult's daily living activities, health care, and behavior management, in compliance
with State of Hawaii or County of Kauai licensing requirements, or both.
["Ahupua a" means a land division usually extending from the uplands to the
sea.]
"Agriculture" means the breeding, planting, nourishing, caring for, gathering
and processing of any animal or plant organism for the purpose of nourishing people
or any other plant or animal organism; or for the purpose of providing the raw
material for non-food products. For the purposes of this Article, "agriculture" shall
include the growing of flowers and other ornamental crops and the commercial
breeding and caring for animals as pets.
"Ahupua a" means a land division usually extending from the uplands to the
sea.
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"Certified pesticide applicator" means any individual who is certified under
Hawai`i Revised Statues Section 149A-33(1) as authorized to use or supervise the
use of any pesticide which is classified for restricted use.
"Commercial agricultural entity" means a firm, corporation, association,
partnership, or any organized group of persons, whether incorporated or not, that is
engaged in growing, developing, cultivating, or producing agricultural products.
"County" means the County of Kaua`i.
"Day care center" means any facility where seven (7) or more children under
the age of eighteen (18) are cared for without overnight accommodations at any
location other than their normal place of residence, in compliance with State of
Hawai`i or County of Kaua`i licensing requirements, or both. This term includes
child care services and other similar uses and facilities consistent with this
definition, and not covered by the "Family child care home" definition.
"DOA" means the State of Hawai`i Department of Agriculture.
"Dwelling" means a building or portion thereof designed or used exclusively
for residential occupancy and having all necessary facilities for permanent
residency such as living, sleeping, cooking, eating., and sanitation.
"Environment" includes water, air, land, and all plants and humans and
other animals living therein, and the interrelationships which exist among these.
"EPA" means the United States Environmental Protection Agency.
"Experimental genetically modified organisms" means organisms that have
not received final approval by the Federal Food & Drug Administration, United
States Department of Agriculture, United States Environmental Protection Agency,
or the appropriate federal regulatory body, for human consumption, release into the
environment, or both.
"Family care home" means any care home occupied by not more than five (5)
care home residents, in compliance with State of Hawai`i or County of Kauai
licensing requirements, or both.
"Family child care home" means providing child care services and other
similar uses consistent with this definition where six (6) or fewer children under the
age of eighteen (18) are cared for in a private dwelling unit without overnight
accommodations at any location other than the children's normal place of residence,
in compliance with State of Hawai`i or County of Kaua`i licensing requirements, or
both.
"FDA" means the Federal Food & Drug Administration.
"General use pesticide" means a pesticide other than one designated as a
restricted use pesticide.
"Genetically modified" means produced from an organism or organisms in
which the genetic material has been genetically engineered through the application
of:
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Draft 1, GH#1 5 October 15, 2013
[(1)] faj. In vitro nucleic acid techniques, which include, but are
not limited to: recombinant deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) techniques; direct
injection of nucleic acid into cells or organelles; encapsulation; gene deletion;
and doubling; or
[(2)] (b) Methods of fusing cells beyond the taxonomic family that
overcome natural physiological reproductive or recombinant barriers, and
that are not techniques used in traditional breeding and selection such as
conjugation, transduction, and hybridization.
For purposes of this definition:
[(3)] "In vitro nucleic acid techniques" include, but are not
limited to, recombinant DNA or RNA techniques that use vector systems and
techniques involving the direct introduction into the organisms of hereditary
materials prepared outside the organisms such as micro-injection, macro-
injection, chemoporation, electroporation, micro-encapsulation, and
liposomefusion.
[(4)] An animal that has not itself been genetically modified,
regardless of whether such animal has been fed or injected with any food or
any drug that has been produced through means of genetic modification,
shall not be considered "genetically modified" for purposes of this Article.
"Genetically modified organism" means an organism or organisms whose
genetic material has been genetically modified.
"Medical facility" means a facility licensed by the State of Hawai`i to provide
medical services.
"Nurse practitioner" means a person licensed as an advanced practice
registered nurse under Hawai`i Revised Statutes Chapter 457.
"Nursing home" means a facility established for profit or nonprofit, which
provides nursing care and related medical services on a twenty-four (24) hour per
day basis to two (2) or more individuals because of illness, disease, or physical or
mental infirmity, in compliance with State of Hawai`i or County of Kaua`i licensing
requirements, or both.
"OED" means the County of Kaua`i Office of Economic Development.
"Orchard" means the establishment, care, and harvesting of over twenty-five
(25) fruit-bearing trees, including, but not limited to, banana, coffee, guava, papaya,
or persimmon, for the purpose of selling the fruit to others.
"Organism" means any biological entity capable of replication, reproduction,
or transferring genetic material.
"Park" means any park, park roadway, playground, beach right-of-way, or
other recreational areas under the control, management, and operation of the
County of Kaua`i[ or State of Hawai`i.], State of Hawai`i, or Federal Government.
Draft 1, GH#1 5 October 15, 2013
Draft 1, GH#1 6 October 15, 2013
"Perennial streams" means fresh waters flowing year-round in all or part of
natural channels, portions of which may be modified by humans. Flow in perennial
streams may vary seasonally. Perennial streams may be subdivided into
longitudinal zones, based on elevation and gradient: (1) headwater zone (elevation
above 800 meters (2,600 feet) or gradient above thirty (30) percent or both); (21
mid-zone (elevation between 50-800 meters (165-2,600 feet), or gradient between
five (5) and thirty (30) percent or both); and (3) terminal zone (elevation below 50
meters (165 feet) or gradient below five (5) percent or both). Perennial streams may
be either continuous or interrupted. Continuous perennial streams discharge
continuously to the ocean in their natural state, and contain water in the entire
length of the stream channel year-round. Interrupted perennial streams usually
flow perennially in their upper reaches but only seasonally in parts of their middle
or lower reaches, due to either downward seepage of surface flow (naturally
interrupted) or to man-made water diversions (artificially interrupted).
["Perennial waterway" means a natural waterway that has continuous flow
in parts of its waterway bed year round during years of normal rainfall.]
"Pest" means any insect, rodent, nematode, fungus, weed, or any other form
of terrestrial or aquatic plant or animal life or virus, bacterium, or any other
microorganism, except viruses, bacterium, or any other microorganisms on or in
living humans or other living animals, which the Administrator of the United
States Environmental Protection Agency determines to be a pest.
"Pesticide" means any substance or mixture of substances intended for
preventing, destroying, repelling, or mitigating any pest, and any substance or
mixture of substances intended for use as an attractant, plant regulator, defoliant,
or desiccant. A product shall be deemed to be a pesticide regardless of whether it is
intended for use as packaged, or as a dilution or mixture with substances such as
carriers or baits. Products not considered pesticides include:
[(1)] (a) Deodorants, bleaching agents, and cleaning agents for which
no pesticidal claims are made or implied;
[(2)] (b) Embalming fluids;
[(3)] (c) Building materials which have been treated to protect the
material itself against any pest and bear no claims for protection of other
surfaces or objects;
[(4)] � Fabrics which have been treated to protect the fabric
itself from insects, fungi, or any other pests;
[(5)] Fertilizer and other plant nutrients; and
[(6)] Products intended only for use after further processing or
manufacturing such as grinding to dust or other operations.
"Physician" means an individual authorized to practice medicine or
osteopathy under Hawai`i Revised Statutes Chapter 453.
"Public roadway" means a roadway on which the public is allowed to
generally travel in a vehicle without obtaining special permission, or providing
advance notice.
Draft 1, GH#1 6 October 15, 2013
Draft 1, GH#1 7 October 15, 2013
"Registered beekeeper" means a person registered with the Hawai`i Apiary
Program, through the State of Hawai`i Department of Agriculture.
"Residential care home" means any care home facility occupied by more than
five (5) care home residents, in compliance with State of Hawai`i or County of Kaua`i
licensing requirements, or both.
"Restricted-entry interval" means the time after the end of a pesticide
application during which entry into the treated area is restricted, as contained
within the Worker Protection Standard for Agricultural Pesticides regulation
established by the Environmental Protection Agency, and specified on all
agricultural plant pesticide product labels.
"Restricted use pesticide" means:
[(1)] ( A pesticide or pesticide use classified by the
Administrator of the United States Environmental Protection Agency for use
by certified applicators or competent persons under their direct supervision
and so designated on the label of the pesticide; or
[(2)] (b) A pesticide or pesticide use classified by the Hawai`i
Board of Agriculture for use by certified applicators or competent persons
under their direct supervision.
"School" means an institution with an organized curriculum offering
instruction.
"Shoreline" means the upper reaches of the wash of the waves, other than
storm and seismic waves, at high tide during the season of the year in which the
highest wash of the waves occurs, usually evidenced by the edge of vegetation
growth, or the upper limit of debris left by the wash of the waves.
"Significant effect" means the sum of effects on the quality of the
environment, including actions that irrevocably commit a natural resource, curtail
the range of beneficial uses of the environment, are contrary to the State's
environmental policies or long-term environmental goals as established by law, or
adversely affect the economic welfare, social welfare, or cultural practices of the
community and State.
"State waters" means all waters, fresh, brackish, or salt, around and within
the State, including, but not limited to, coastal waters, streams, rivers, drainage
ditches, ponds, reservoirs, canals, ground waters, and lakes; provided that the
following are excluded: groundwater; ditches, flumes, ponds, and reservoirs that are
required as part of a water pollution control system; and ditches, flumes,ponds, and
reservoirs that are used solely for irrigation and do not overflow into any other state
waters, unless such ditches, flumes, ponds, and reservoirs are waters of the United
States as defined at 40 C.F.R. 122.2.
"USDA" means the United States Department of Agriculture.
"Worker protection standard" means the Worker Protection Standard for
Agricultural Pesticides regulation established by the Environmental Protection
Draft 1, GH#1 7 October 15, 2013
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Agency, which is aimed at reducing the risk of pesticide poisonings and injuries
among agricultural workers and pesticide handlers, and contains requirements for
pesticide safety training, notification of pesticide applications, use of personal
protective equipment, restricted-entry intervals after pesticide application,
decontamination supplies, and emergency medical assistance."
3. Amend Bill No. 2491, Draft 1 by amending the proposed
Section 22-22.4 as follows:
"Sec. 22-22.4 Mandatory Disclosure of Pesticides, and
Genetically Modified Organisms.
(a) It shall be mandatory for all commercial agricultural entities that
annually purchase or use in excess of five (5) pounds or fifteen (15) gallons of
restricted use pesticides during any calendar year to disclose the use of all
pesticides of any kind [during that same] throughout the duration of the
immediately following calendar year. Disclosure requirements include:
(1) Worker Protection Standard. Posting of warning signs in the
area in which pesticides are to be applied no sooner than twenty-four (24)
hours before the scheduled application of any pesticide. Posting of warning
signs during and after the application of any pesticide shall conform to the
official label of the pesticide. Posting of warning signs at the time of
application shall conform to the worker protection standard established by
the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), and shall remain posted until
expiration of the applicable restricted-entry interval established by the EPA.
The size of all signs, and the symbols and wording on all signs, shall conform
to the worker protection standard established by the EPA. A posting
notification area shall be provided daily for workers, and shall conform to the
worker protection standard established by the EPA, and the State of Hawai`i.
(2) Pesticide Pre-Application "Good Neighbor Courtesy Notices."
Pesticide [Pre-application] pre-application notification must be provided to
any requesting registered beekeeper, property owner, lessee, revocable
permit holder, or person otherwise occupying any property within 1,500 feet
from the property line of the commercial agricultural entity where any
pesticide is anticipated to be applied. A mass notification list shall be
established and maintained by each commercial agricultural entity, and shall
include access to a legible map showing all field numbers and any key,
legend, or other necessary map descriptions. Any interested registered
beekeeper, property owner, lessee, revocable permit holder, or person
otherwise occupying any property within 1,500 feet from the property line of
the operation of any commercial agricultural entity, shall submit contact
information to the relevant commercial agricultural entity. These interested
persons may submit up to three (3) local telephone numbers, and two (2)
e-mail addresses. All mass notification messages shall be sent via telephone,
text message, or e-mail, with the method or methods of transmittal to be
determined by each commercial agricultural entity. Each commercial
agricultural entity shall provide an alternative method of transmittal for any
recipient who does not have access to the technology necessary for the
method or methods of transmittal selected by the commercial agricultural
entity. Requests to be included on, or removed from, the mass notification
list must be processed within three (3) business days. These "good neighbor
Draft 1, GH#1 8 October 15, 2013
Draft 1, GH#1 9 October 15, 2013
courtesy notices" shall contain the following information regarding all
anticipated pesticide applications: pesticide to be used, active ingredient of
pesticide to be used, date, time, and field number. All "good neighbor
courtesy notices" shall also be submitted to the County of Kaua`i Office of
Economic Development (OED) where they will be posted online and available
for access by the general public. Any licensed physician or nurse practitioner
shall be provided the disclosure information required in this
Section 22-22.4(a)(2) immediately upon request based on the need to diagnose
a person within his or her care.
(A) Scheduled Weekly Applications. Each commercial
agricultural entity shall send regular mass notification messages at
least once during every seven (7) day week period summarizing the
anticipated application of any pesticide for the upcoming seven (7) day
week.
(B) Unforeseen Pest Threat Necessary Applications.
Whenever a pesticide application that was unforeseen and therefore
not contained in the weekly "good neighbor courtesy notice" is deemed
by the commercial agricultural entity to be necessary to alleviate a
pest threat, an additional "good neighbor courtesy notice" shall be
generated to all recipients of the mass notification list within
twenty-four (24) hours after the application.
(3) Pesticide Post-Application Weekly Public Disclosure. Each
commercial agricultural entity shall submit regular public disclosure reports
once during every seven (7) day week period compiling the actual application
of all pesticides during the prior week. These weekly public disclosure
reports shall contain the following information regarding all actual pesticide
applications: date; time; field number; total acreage; pesticide used; label;
Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS); active ingredient of pesticide used;
gallons or pounds of pesticide used, including total volume of applied
material; and temperature, wind direction, and wind speed at time of
pesticide application. Each commercial agricultural entity shall submit all
public disclosure reports to [the County of Kaua`i Office of Economic
Development (OED),] OED, and shall include online access to a legible map
showing all field numbers and any key, legend, or other necessary map
descriptions for all applicable commercial agricultural entities. All public
disclosure reports shall be posted online, and available for viewing and
download by any interested persons. OED shall develop a standardized
reporting form.
(b) It shall be mandatory for all commercial agricultural entities that
intentionally or knowingly possess any genetically modified organism to disclose the
presence of said genetically modified organism.
(1) Annual public reports of all genetically modified organisms
intentionally or knowingly possessed during each calendar year shall be
provided to the Office of Economic Development and shall be posted online on
the County website. Direct notification to [the Department] OED
documenting such disclosure shall occur no later than sixty (60) days
following the end of each calendar year, except that the first report shall be
due on the date this ordinance shall take effect.
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Draft 1, GH#1 10 October 15, 2013
(2) Disclosure shall include a general description of each genetically
modified organism, a general description of the geographic location including
at minimum the Tax Map Key and ahupua a where each genetically modified
organism is being grown or developed, and dates that each genetically
modified organism was initially introduced to the County of Kaua`i. General
description shall include information as to the species of the genetically
modified organism; whether or not the genetically modified organism is
experimental as defined in Section 22-22.3; and the general purpose of the
genetically modified organism, including but not limited to, pest resistance,
nutritional enhancement, drought resistance, and biopharmaceutical or
bioindustrial designations. Any applicant to any federal agency for any
permit for or approval of any bioproduct, field testing of any genetically
modified organism, or environmental impact assessment of genetically
modified organism shall submit one (1) copy of that application to OED, at
the same time that the application is submitted to the federal agency."
4. Amend Bill No. 2491, Draft 1 by amending the proposed
Section 22-22.5 as follows:
"Sec. 22-22.5 Pesticide Buffer Zones.
(a) [Effective January 1, 2014 it] It shall be mandatory for all commercial
agricultural entities that annually purchase or use in excess of five (5) pounds or
fifteen (15) gallons of restricted use pesticides during any calendar year to restrict
the application of all pesticides of any kind during the subsequent calendar year in
the following areas:
(1) No pesticide of any kind may be used within 500 feet of the
property line of any school, park, medical facility, adult family boarding
home, adult family group living home, day care center, family care home,
family child care home, nursing home, or residential care home.
[(2) No pesticide of any kind may be used within 100 feet of any
park.
(3) No pesticide of any kind may be used within 500 feet of any
dwelling, except that if the commercial agricultural entity has an approved
Soil and Water Conservation Plan that explicitly addresses pesticide drift on
the dwelling, then no pesticide of any kind may be used within 100 feet of any
dwelling.
(4) No pesticide of any kind may be used within 100 feet of any
public roadway, except that this restriction shall not apply to any existing
orchard, provided that the orchard posts roadway signs along the roadway no
sooner than twenty-four (24) hours before the scheduled application.
Roadway signs shall be located at the start and end of the field along the
public roadway where application will occur, and shall comply with all State
of Hawai`i Department of Transportation requirements.
(5) No pesticide of any kind may be used within 100 feet of any
shoreline or perennial waterway that flows into the ocean. This provision
shall not apply to any irrigation ditch that does not flow to the ocean. This
provision shall not apply to any specific instance where the State of Hawai`i
Draft 1, GH#1 10 October 15, 2013
Draft 1, GH#1 11 October 15, 2013
Department of Agriculture has authorized such pesticide use for public
health purposes.]
(2) No pesticide of any kind may be used within 500 feet of the
property line of any parcel on which a dwelling is located, except that for any
dwelling that is part of a contiguous parcel or related parcel owned or
managed by a commercial agricultural entity regulated by this Section 22-
22.5, or by the commercial agricultural entity's lessor, then no pesticide of
any kind may be used within 550 feet of any such dwelling.
(3) No pesticide of any kind may be used within 500 feet of any
shoreline. This provision shall not apply to any specific instance where the
State of Hawai`i Department of Agriculture has authorized such pesticide use
for public health purposes.
(4) No pesticide of any kind may be used within 250 feet of
perennial streams. This provision shall not apply to any specific instance
where the State of Hawai`i Department of Agriculture has authorized such
pesticide use for public health purposes.
(5) No pesticide of any kind may be used within 100 feet of any
other state waters. This provision shall not apply to any specific instance
where the State of Hawai`i Department of Agriculture has authorized such
pesticide use for public health purposes.
(6) No pesticide of any kind may be used within 500 feet of any
public roadway, except that pesticides may be used within 500 feet of any
public roadway if the commercial agricultural entity posts notification
signage on land that is adjacent to the public roadway. Notification signage
must be of a size that is legible from vehicles traveling at the posted speed
limit. At least one (1) sign must be placed at the beginning of the property
boundary that is adjacent to the public roadway, at the end of the property
boundary that is adjacent to the public roadway, and at intervals of 2,500 feet
along the property boundary that is adjacent to the public roadway.
(b) If this Section, or any part thereof, is determined to conflict with any
labeling information pertaining to such pesticides [(restricted use, general use, or
experimental)), the more restrictive and environmentally protective provisions shall
apply."
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Draft 1, GH#1 12 October 15, 2013
5. Amend Bill No. 2491, Draft 1 by amending the proposed
Section 22-22.6 as follows:
"Sec. 22-22.6 Environmental and Public Health Impacts Study
(EPHIS).
(a) The County of Kaua`i shall complete an Environmental and Public
Health Impact Study (EPHIS) through a [two-part] multi-part community-based
process to address key environmental and public health questions related to
large-scale commercial agricultural entities [using] utilizing pesticides and
[growing] genetically modified [crops] organisms. [The] As determined by Council
Resolution, the first part shall utilize a Joint Fact Finding Group (JFFG) convened
and facilitated by a professional consultant to determine the scope and design of the
EPHIS within twelve (12) months of the Notice to Proceed. In the second part of the
process, the EPHIS shall be conducted by a professional consultant with oversight
by the JFFG and shall be completed within eighteen (18) months of the relevant
Notice to Proceed. The EPHIS shall make recommendations that include, but are
not limited to, possible actions the County may take in order to address any
significant effects, public health impacts, or both, as may be determined by the
EPHIS. Upon completion of the EPHIS, the Council shall reconsider the buffer zone
requirements referenced in Section 22-22.5 herein, based on recommendations
made by the EPHIS.
(b) In addition to other funding sources, the County may pay for the
EPHIS process and other necessary mechanisms required for the implementation of
this Article, from property taxes that are directly related to those commercial
agricultural entities governed by this Article, through new permitting fees, or both."
6. Amend Bill No. 2491, Draft 1 by adding the proposed Section 22-22.7
as follows:
"Sec. 22-22.7 Permitting.
The County of Kaua`i may develop and implement a permitting process that
applies to activities and entities contained within this Article. The permitting
process shall include, but not be limited to, provisions that facilitate the elimination
or mitigation of significant effects and impacts that may be identified in the
Environmental and Public Health Impacts Study (EPHIS) described in
Section 22-22.7. The County may administer and implement fees to be used for
regulation and enforcement of this Article."
7. Amend Bill No. 2491, Draft 1 by amending the proposed
Section 22-22.8 as follows:
"[Sec. 22-22.7] Sec. 22-22.8 Penalties.
(a) Any person, firm, or corporation, whether as principal, agent,
employee, or otherwise, violating, causing, or permitting the violation of any of the
provisions of this Article, shall be assessed a civil fine of $10,000-$25,000 per day,
per violation.
(b) In addition to any penalty described in Subsection 22-22.7(a), any
person, firm, or corporation, whether as principal, agent, employee, or otherwise,
violating or causing or permitting the violation of any of the provisions of this
Draft 1, GH#1 12 October 15, 2013
• Draft 1, GH#1 13 October 15, 2013
Article, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, and upon conviction thereof shall be
punished by a fine of not more than two-thousand dollars ($2,000.00), or imprisoned
not more than one (1) year, or both, for each offense. The continuance of any
violation after conviction shall be deemed a new criminal offense for each day that
the violation or violations continue."
8. Amend Bill No. 2491, Draft 1 by amending the proposed
Section 22-22.9 as follows:
"[Sec. 22-22.8] Sec. 22-22.9 Rulemaking.
In order to effectuate all provisions of this Article, the Office of Economic
Development may engage in any rulemaking it deems necessary or proper, utilizing
the provisions of Hawai`i Revised Statutes Chapter 91."
(Material to be deleted is bracketed. New material to be added is underscored.)
V:\AMENDMENTS\2012-2014 term\Bill No. 2491, Draft 1 GH#1 10-15-2013 JH:aa
Draft 1, GH#1 13 October 15, 2013
ATTACHMENT C
Draft 1, NN & JY#2 1 October 15, 2013
(Continued October 08, 2013 Meeting)
FLOOR AMENDMENT
Bill No. 2491, Draft 1, Relating to Pesticides and Genetically Modified Organisms
Introduced by: NADINE K. NAKAMURA and JOANN A. YUKIMURA
Amend Bill No. 2491, Draft 1 in its entirety as follows:
"SECTION 1. Chapter 22 of the Kaua`i County Code 1987, as
amended, is hereby amended by adding a new Article 22 to read as follows:
"ARTICLE 22. PESTICIDES AND GENETICALLY MODIFIED
ORGANISMS
Sec. 22-22.1 Findings.
[(a)] In order to establish provisions governing the use of pesticides and
genetically modified organisms (GMOs) by large-scale commercial agricultural
entities on Kaua`i, the Council finds that:
[(1)] Section 1, Article XI of the State Constitution states: "For
the benefit of present and future generations, the State and its political
subdivisions shall conserve and protect Hawai`i's natural beauty and all
natural resources, including land, water, air, minerals, and energy sources,
and shall promote the development and utilization of these resources in a
manner consistent with their conservation and in furtherance of the
self-sufficiency of the State. All public natural resources are held in trust by
the State for the benefit of the people."
[(2)] (b) The growth of commercial agricultural entities engaged in
the use and development of genetically modified organisms and the
widespread use of pesticides in the County of Kaua`i has created a situation
where residents live, work, and commute daily in close proximity to areas
where there is regular application of restricted use pesticides and general use
pesticides.
[(3)] There are increasing concerns about the direct and long-
term impacts of the large-scale use of pesticides, and the impacts that the
intense agricultural cultivation is having on the land, on the natural
environment, and on human health.
[(4)] (d) Hawai`i Revised Statutes Section 46-1.5(13) states: "Each
county shall have the power to enact ordinances deemed necessary to protect
health, life, and property, and to preserve the order and security of the
county and its inhabitants on any subject or matter not inconsistent with, or
tending to defeat, the intent of any state statute where the statute does not
disclose an express or implied intent that the statute shall be exclusive or
uniform throughout the State."
•
[(5)] The County of Kaua`i has become a location of increasing
commercial agriculture operations that utilize genetically modified organisms
for the production of crop seed and field testing of new genetically modified
organisms.
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[(6)] Genetically modified plants could potentially disperse into
the environment of the County of Kaua`i through pollen drift, seed
commingling, and inadvertent transfer of seeds by humans, animals, weather
events, and other means. This could have environmental and economic
impacts.
[(7)] (g) Records obtained from the State of Hawai`i Department of
Agriculture indicate that twenty-two (22) different restricted use pesticides,
comprising approximately [5,477.2] 5,477 pounds, and [5,884.5] 5,885 gallons,
were used during 2012 on Kaua`i by five (5) commercial agricultural entities,
which constituted approximately 99% of the restricted use pesticides utilized
by agricultural operations on Kaua`i.
[(8)] f In 2012, restricted use pesticides were used on Kaua`i by
agricultural operations (7,727 pounds and 5,892 gallons, or 13%), county
government operations (28,350 pounds and zero (0) gallons of Chlorine
Liquefied Gas for water and wastewater treatment, or 49%), and non-
government operations for structural pest control termite treatment (25,828
pounds and 20 gallons, or 38%).
[(9)] U Pesticides have the ability to contaminate groundwater,
and are often toxic to humans, animals, bees, and other insects. Some
restricted use pesticides are banned by the entire European Union.
[(10)] U Dust and drift from both restricted use pesticides and
general use pesticides sometimes [travels] travel beyond commercial
agricultural operations. Dust, pesticide drift, and long-term exposure to toxic
chemicals are potential sources of pollution endangering human health and
the natural environment.
[(11)] (k) Hawai`i Revised Statutes Section 46-17 states: "Any
provision of law to the contrary notwithstanding, the council of any county
may adopt and provide for the enforcement of ordinances regulating or
prohibiting noise, smoke, dust, vibration, or odors which constitute a public
nuisance. No such ordinance shall be held invalid on the ground that it covers
any subject or matter embraced within any statute or rule of the State;
provided that in any case of conflict between a statute or rule and an
ordinance, the law affording the most protection to the public shall
apply . . . .,,
[(12)] f The impacts on the County of Kaua`i of large-scale
intensive cultivation and associated agricultural practices should be further
evaluated.
[(13)] Information pertaining to the intensive use of
pesticides within the County of Kaua`i, and the experimentation and growing
of genetically modified organisms, is currently withheld from the public.
Thus, the public is unable to evaluate the full extent of the impacts on the
residents and environment of the County of Kaua`i.
[(14)] In the interest of protecting the health of the people and
fragile natural environment of the County of Kaua`i, the people of the County
of Kaua`i have the right to know what pesticides are being used on a
significant scale, and [whether or not] what genetically modified organisms
Draft 1, NN & JY#2 2 October 15, 2013
Draft 1, NN & JY#2 3 October 15, 2013
are being grown within the jurisdiction of the County of Kaua`i. The people
of the County of Kauai have the right to know the likely potential impacts on
their human health, and the health of their environment.
(o) It is the intent of the County to collaborate with the State of
Hawai`i Department of Agriculture to support the implementation and
enforcement of this Article.
Sec. 22-22.2 Purpose. The purpose of this Article is to establish
provisions to inform the public, and protect the public from any direct, indirect, or
cumulative negative impacts on the health and the natural environment of the
people and place of the County of Kaua`i, by governing the use of pesticides and
genetically modified organisms, and the penalties associated with any violation of
this Article, or the laws, rules, or any other requirement that may be authorized by
this Article.
Sec. 22-22.3 Definitions. When used in this Article, the following
words or phrases shall have the meaning given in this Section unless it shall be
apparent from the context that another meaning is intended:
"Active ingredient" means:
[(1)] In the case of a pesticide other than a plant regulator,
defoliant, or desiccant, an ingredient which will prevent, destroy, repel, or
mitigate any pest;
[(2)] (b) In the case of a plant regulator, an ingredient which,
through physiological action, will accelerate or retard the rate of growth or
maturation or otherwise alter the behavior of ornamental or crop plants or
the produce thereof;
[(3)] In the case of a defoliant, an ingredient which will cause
the leaves or foliage to drop from a plant; and
[(4)] In the case of a desiccant, an ingredient which will
artificially accelerate the drying of plant tissues.
"Adult family boarding home" means any family home providing for a fee,
twenty-four (24) hour living accommodations to no more than five (5) adults,
unrelated to the family, who are in need of minimal protective oversight care in
their daily living activities, in compliance with State of Hawai`i or County of Kauai
licensing requirements, or both.
"Adult family group living home" means any family home providing twenty-
four (24) hour living accommodations for a fee to five (5) to eight (8) elderly,
handicapped, developmentally disabled, or totally disabled adults, unrelated to the
family, who are in need of long-term minimal assistance and supervision in the
adult's daily living activities, health care, and behavior management, in compliance
with State of Hawai`i or County of Kaua`i licensing requirements, or both.
["Ahupua a" means a land division usually extending from the uplands to the
sea.]
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"Agriculture" means the breeding, planting, nourishing, caring for, gathering
and processing of any animal or plant organism for the purpose of nourishing people
or any other plant or animal organism; or for the purpose of providing the raw
material for non-food products. For the purposes of this Article, "agriculture" shall
include the growing of flowers and other ornamental crops and the commercial
breeding and caring for animals as pets.
"Ahupua a" means a land division usually extending from the uplands to the
sea.
"Certified pesticide applicator" means any individual who is certified under
Hawai`i Revised Statues Section 149A-33(1) as authorized to use or supervise the
use of any pesticide which is classified for restricted use.
"Commercial agricultural entity" means a firm, corporation, association,
partnership, or any organized group of persons, whether incorporated or not, that is
engaged in growing, developing, cultivating, or producing agricultural products.
"County" means the County of Kaua`i.
"Crop" means a plant or product thereof that can be grown and harvested for
subsistence, profit, or research.
"Day care center" means any facility where seven (7) or more children under
the age of eighteen (18) are cared for without overnight accommodations at any
location other than their normal place of residence, in compliance with State of
Hawai`i or County of Kauai licensing requirements, or both. This term includes
child care services and other similar uses and facilities consistent with this
definition, and not covered by the "Family child care home" definition.
"DOA" means the State of Hawai`i Department of Agriculture.
"Dwelling" means a building or portion thereof designed or used exclusively
for residential occupancy and having all necessary facilities for permanent
residency such as living, sleeping, cooking, eating, and sanitation.
"Environment" includes water, air, land, and all plants and humans and
other animals living therein, and the interrelationships which exist among these.
"EPA" means the United States Environmental Protection Agency.
"Experimental genetically modified organisms" means organisms that have
not received final approval by the Federal Food & Drug Administration, United
States Department of Agriculture, United States Environmental Protection Agency,
or the appropriate federal regulatory body, for human consumption, release into the
environment, or both.
"Family care home" means any care home occupied by not more than five (5)
care home residents, in compliance with State of Hawai`i or County of Kauai
licensing requirements, or both.
"Family child care home" means providing child care services and other
similar uses consistent with this definition where six (6) or fewer children under the
age of eighteen (18) are cared for in a private dwelling unit without overnight
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accommodations at any location other than the children's normal place of residence,
in compliance with State of Hawai`i or County of Kaua`i licensing requirements, or
both.
"FDA" means the Federal Food & Drug Administration.
"General use pesticide" means a pesticide other than one designated as a
restricted use pesticide.
"Genetically modified" means produced from an organism or organisms in
which the genetic material has been genetically engineered through the application
of:
[(1)] In vitro nucleic acid techniques, which include, but are
not limited to: recombinant deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) techniques; direct
injection of nucleic acid into cells or organelles; encapsulation; gene deletion;
and doubling; or
[(2)] (b) Methods of fusing cells beyond the taxonomic family that
overcome natural physiological reproductive or recombinant barriers, and
that are not techniques used in traditional breeding and selection such as
conjugation, transduction, and hybridization.
For purposes of this definition:
[(3)] "In vitro nucleic acid techniques" include, but are not
limited to, recombinant DNA or RNA techniques that use vector systems and
techniques involving the direct introduction into the organisms of hereditary
materials prepared outside the organisms such as micro-injection, macro-
injection, chemoporation, electroporation, micro-encapsulation, and
liposomefusion.
[(4)] An animal that has not itself been genetically modified,
regardless of whether such animal has been fed or injected with any food or
any drug that has been produced through means of genetic modification,
shall not be considered "genetically modified" for purposes of this Article.
"Genetically modified organism" means an organism or organisms whose
genetic material has been genetically modified.
"Ground cover" means small plants such as salal, ivy, ferns, mosses, grasses,
or other types of vegetation that normally cover the ground and includes trees and
shrubs less than six (6) inches in diameter.
"Medical facility" means a facility licensed by the State of Hawaii to provide
medical services.
"Nurse practitioner" means a person licensed as an advanced practice
registered nurse under Hawai`i Revised Statutes Chapter 457.
"Nursing home" means a facility established for profit or nonprofit, which
provides nursing care and related medical services on a twenty-four (24) hour per
day basis to two (2) or more individuals because of illness, disease, or physical or
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mental infirmity, in compliance with State of Hawai`i or County of Kaua`i licensing
requirements, or both.
"OED" means the County of Kaua`i Office of Economic Development.
"Orchard" means the establishment, care, and harvesting of over twenty-five
(25) fruit-bearing trees, including, but not limited to, banana, coffee, guava, papaya,
or persimmon, for the purpose of selling the fruit to others.
"Organism" means any biological entity capable of replication, reproduction,
or transferring genetic material.
"Park" means any park, park roadway, playground, beach right-of-way, or
other recreational areas under the control, management, and operation of the
County of Kaua`i or State of Hawai`i."
["Perennial waterway" means a natural waterway that has continuous flow
in parts of its waterway bed year round during years of normal rainfall.]
"Pest" means any insect, rodent, nematode, fungus, weed, or any other form
of terrestrial or aquatic plant or animal life or virus, bacterium, or any other
microorganism, except viruses, bacterium, or any other microorganisms on or in
living humans or other living animals, which the Administrator of the United
States Environmental Protection Agency determines to be a pest.
"Pesticide" means any substance or mixture of substances intended for
preventing, destroying, repelling, or mitigating any pest, and any substance or
mixture of substances intended for use as an attractant, plant regulator, defoliant,
or desiccant. A product shall be deemed to be a pesticide regardless of whether it is
intended for use as packaged, or as a dilution or mixture with substances such as
carriers or baits. Products not considered pesticides include:
[(1)] Laj Deodorants, bleaching agents, and cleaning agents for
which no pesticidal claims are made or implied;
[(2)] (b) Embalming fluids;
[(3)] fcl Building materials which have been treated to protect the
material itself against any pest and bear no claims for protection of other
surfaces or objects;
[(4)] (d) Fabrics which have been treated to protect the fabric
itself from insects, fungi, or any other pests;
[(5)] Fertilizer and other plant nutrients; and
[(6)] (f) Products intended only for use after further processing or
manufacturing such as grinding to dust or other operations.
"Physician" means an individual authorized to practice medicine or
osteopathy under Hawai`i Revised Statutes Chapter 453.
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"Public roadway" means a roadway on which the public is allowed to
generally travel in a vehicle without obtaining special permission, or providing
advance notice.
"Registered beekeeper" means a person registered with the Hawai`i Apiary
Program, through the State of Hawaii Department of Agriculture.
"Residential care home" means any care home facility occupied by more than
five (5) care home residents, in compliance with State of Hawai`i or County of Kaua`i
licensing requirements, or both.
"Restricted-entry interval" means the time after the end of a pesticide
application during which entry into the treated area is restricted, as contained
within the Worker Protection Standard for Agricultural Pesticides regulation
established by the Environmental Protection Agency, and specified on all
agricultural plant pesticide product labels.
"Restricted use pesticide" means:
[(1)] ) A pesticide or pesticide use classified by the
Administrator of the United States Environmental Protection Agency for use
by certified applicators or competent persons under their direct supervision
and so designated on the label of the pesticide; or
[(2)] (b) A pesticide or pesticide use classified by the Hawai`i
Board of Agriculture for use by certified applicators or competent persons
under their direct supervision.
"School" means an institution with an organized curriculum offering
instruction.
"Shoreline" means the upper reaches of the wash of the waves, other than
storm and seismic waves, at high tide during the season of the year in which the
highest wash of the waves occurs, usually evidenced by the edge of vegetation
growth, or the upper limit of debris left by the wash of the waves.
"Significant effect" means the sum of effects on the quality of the
environment, including actions that irrevocably commit a natural resource, curtail
the range of beneficial uses of the environment, are contrary to the State's
environmental policies or long-term environmental goals as established by law, or
adversely affect the economic welfare, social welfare, or cultural practices of the
community and State.
"Stream" means any river, creek, slough, or natural watercourse in which
water usually flows in a defined bed or channel. It is not essential that the flowing
be uniform or uninterrupted. The fact that some parts of the bed or channel have
been dredged or improved does not prevent the watercourse from being a stream.
"USDA" means the United States Department of Agriculture.
"Worker protection standard" means the Worker Protection Standard for
Agricultural Pesticides regulation established by the Environmental Protection
Agency, which is aimed at reducing the risk of pesticide poisonings and injuries
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among agricultural workers and pesticide handlers, and contains requirements for
pesticide safety training, notification of pesticide applications, use of personal
protective equipment, restricted-entry intervals after pesticide application,
decontamination supplies, and emergency medical assistance.
Sec. 22-22.4 Mandatory Disclosure of Pesticides, and
Genetically Modified Organisms.
(a) It shall be mandatory for all commercial agricultural entities that
[annually purchase or use] purchased or used in excess of five (5) pounds or fifteen
(15) gallons of [restricted use pesticides] any single restricted use pesticide during
[any] the prior calendar year to disclose the use of all pesticides during [that same]
the following calendar year. Disclosure requirements include:
(1) Worker Protection Standard. Posting of warning signs in the
area in which pesticides are to be applied no sooner than twenty-four (24)
hours before the scheduled application of any pesticide. Posting of warning
signs during and after the application of any pesticide shall conform to the
official label of the pesticide. Posting of warning signs at the time of
application shall conform to the worker protection standard established by
the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), and shall remain posted until
expiration of the applicable restricted-entry interval established by the EPA.
The size of all signs, and the symbols and wording on all signs, shall conform
to the worker protection standard established by the EPA. A posting
notification area shall be provided daily for workers, and shall conform to the
worker protection standard established by the EPA, and the State of Hawai`i.
(2) Pesticide Pre-Application "Good Neighbor Courtesy Notices."
Pesticide [Pre-application] pre-application notification must be provided to
any [requesting] of the following requesting persons within 1,500 feet from
the property line of the commercial agricultural entity where any pesticide is
anticipated to be applied: registered beekeeper, property owner, lessee, or
person otherwise occupying [any property within 1,500 feet from the property
line of the commercial agricultural entity where any pesticide is anticipated
to be applied.] property within 1,500 feet. Pre-application notification must
also be provided to any revocable permit holder authorized to enter the
property of the commercial agricultural entity. A mass notification list shall
be established and maintained by each commercial agricultural entity, and
shall include access to a legible map showing all field numbers and any key,
legend, or other necessary map descriptions. Any interested [registered
beekeeper, property owner, lessee, or person otherwise occupying any
property within 1,500 feet from the property line of the operation of any
commercial agricultural entity,] person as described in this Section 22-
22.4(a)(2) shall submit contact information to the relevant commercial
agricultural entity. These interested persons may submit up to three (3) local
telephone numbers, and two (2) e-mail addresses. All mass notification
messages shall be sent via telephone, text message, or e-mail, with the
method or methods of transmittal to be determined by each commercial
agricultural entity. Each commercial agricultural entity shall provide an
alternative method of transmittal for any recipient who does not have access
to the technology necessary for the method or methods of transmittal selected
by the commercial agricultural entity. Requests to be included on, or
removed from, the mass notification list must be processed within three (3)
business days. These "good neighbor courtesy notices" shall contain the
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following information regarding all anticipated pesticide applications:
pesticide to be used, active ingredient of pesticide to be used, date, time, and
field number.
(A) Scheduled Weekly Applications. Each commercial
agricultural entity shall send regular mass notification messages at
least once during every seven (7) day week period summarizing the
anticipated application of any pesticide for the upcoming seven (7) day
week.
(B) Unforeseen Pest Threat Necessary Applications.
Whenever a pesticide application that was unforeseen and therefore
not contained in the weekly "good neighbor courtesy notice" is deemed
by the commercial agricultural entity to be necessary to alleviate a
pest threat, an additional "good neighbor courtesy notice" shall be
generated to all recipients of the mass notification list within
twenty-four (24) hours after the application.
(3) Pesticide Post-Application Weekly Public Disclosure. Each
commercial agricultural entity shall submit regular public disclosure reports
once during every seven (7) day week period compiling the actual application
of all pesticides during the prior week. These weekly public disclosure
reports shall contain the following information regarding all actual pesticide
applications: date; time; field number; total acreage; trade name of pesticide
used; EPA registration number; active ingredient of pesticide used; gallons or
pounds of pesticide used; and temperature, wind direction, and wind speed at
time of pesticide application. Each commercial agricultural entity shall
submit all public disclosure reports to the County of Kaua`i Office of
Economic Development (OED), and shall include online access to a legible
map showing all field numbers and any key, legend, or other necessary map
descriptions for all applicable commercial agricultural entities. All public
disclosure reports shall be posted online, and available for viewing and
download by any interested persons. OED shall develop a standardized
reporting form.
(4) Pesticide Post-Application Urgent/Emergency Care Disclosure.
Each commercial agricultural entity shall establish an emergency response
hotline to be made available to any licensed physician or nurse practitioner
practicing in association with a clinic, medical facility, or emergency center.
Within six (6) hours of a request from any such licensed physician or nurse
practitioner who provides a documented medical need, the commercial
agricultural entity must provide the following information regarding all
actual pesticide applications related to the alleged incident: date; time; field
number; total acreage; trade name of pesticide used; EPA registration
number; active ingredient of pesticide used; gallons or pounds of pesticide
used; and temperature, wind direction, and wind speed at time of pesticide
application.
(b) It shall be mandatory for all commercial agricultural entities that
intentionally or knowingly possess any genetically modified organism to disclose the
[presence of] growing of said genetically modified organism.
(1) Annual public reports [of all genetically modified organisms
intentionally or knowingly possessed during each calendar year] shall be
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provided to the Office of Economic Development and the State of Hawai`i
Department of Agriculture (DOA), and shall be posted online on the County
website. Direct notification to [the Department] OED and DOA documenting
such disclosure shall occur no later than sixty (60) days following the end of
each calendar year, except that the first reports shall be due on the date this
ordinance shall take effect.
(2) [Disclosure] Annual public reports shall include a general
description of each genetically modified organism (e.g., "GMO Corn" or "GMO
Soy"), a general description of the geographic location including at minimum
the Tax Map Key and ahupua a where each genetically modified organism is
being grown or developed, and dates that each genetically modified organism
was initially introduced to the land in question."
Sec. 22-22.5 Pesticide Buffer Zones.
(a) [Effective January 1, 2014 it] It shall be mandatory for all commercial
agricultural entities that [annually purchase or use] purchased or used in excess of
five (5) pounds or fifteen (15) gallons of [restricted use pesticides] any single
restricted use pesticide during [any] the prior calendar year to restrict the growing
of crops, except ground cover to which no pesticide is applied, and thereby restrict
the application of all pesticides in the following areas:
(1) [No pesticide of any kind may be used] No crops may be grown
within 500 feet of any [school, medical facility,] adult family boarding home,
adult family group living home, day care center, family care home, family
child care home, medical facility,. nursing home, [or] residential care home[.],,
or school.
(2) [No pesticide of any kind may be used] No crops may be grown
within 100 feet of any park.
(3) [No pesticide of any kind may be used] No crops may be grown
within 500 feet of any dwelling, [except that if the commercial agricultural
entity has an approved Soil and Water Conservation Plan that explicitly
addresses pesticide drift on the dwelling, then no pesticide of any kind may
be used within 100 feet of any dwelling.] unless:
(A) The commercial agricultural entity has an approved Soil
and Water Conservation Plan that explicitly demonstrates no pesticide
drift on the dwelling, then no crops may be grown within 100 feet of
any dwelling; or
(B) The dwelling is owned by the landowner, and occupied by
the landowner or a family member of the landowner, and there are no
other dwellings occupied by third-parties within 500 feet of the
landowner dwelling, then there shall be no pesticide buffer zone
restricting growing of crops in proximity to the landowner dwelling; or
(C) Regarding a mature orchard, the crops of which grow in a
hedge-like manner creating a windbreak effect, if pesticide application
occurs between crop rows from a source no higher than two (2) feet
from the ground, for the purpose of eliminating weeds in the ground,
then no crops may be grown within 75 feet of any dwelling.
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[(4) No pesticide of any kind may be used within 100 feet of any
public roadway, except that this restriction shall not apply to any existing
orchard, provided that the orchard posts roadway signs along the roadway no
sooner than twenty-four (24) hours before the scheduled application.
Roadway signs shall be located at the start and end of the field along the
public roadway where application will occur, and shall comply with all State
of Hawai`i Department of Transportation requirements.]
(4) No crops may be grown within 100 feet of any public roadway,
except that pesticides may be used within 100 feet of any public roadway if
the commercial agricultural entity posts notification signage on land that is
adjacent to the public roadway no sooner than twenty-four (24) hours before
the scheduled application. Roadway signs shall be located at the start and
end of the field along the public roadway where application will occur, shall
be of a size that is legible from vehicles traveling at the posted speed limit,
and shall comply with all State of Hawai`i Department of Transportation
requirements.
(5) [No pesticide of any kind may be used] No crops may be grown
within 100 feet of any shoreline or [perennial waterway] stream that flows
into the ocean. This provision shall not apply to any irrigation ditch or
drainage canal that does not directly flow to the ocean. [This provision shall
not apply to any specific instance where the State of Hawai`i Department of
Agriculture has authorized such pesticide use for public health purposes.]
(b) The provisions in Section 22-22.5(a) shall not apply to any specific
instance where any County, State, or Federal government agency has authorized
such pesticide use for public health or safety purposes.
[(b)] If this Section, or any part thereof, is determined to conflict with
any pesticide labeling information [pertaining to such pesticides (restricted use,
general use, or experimental)], the more restrictive and environmentally protective
provisions shall apply."
Sec. 22-22.6 Environmental and Public Health Impacts Study
(EPHIS).
The County of Kaua`i shall complete an Environmental and Public Health
Impact Study (EPHIS) through a two-part community-based process to address key
environmental and public health questions related to large-scale commercial
agricultural entities [using] utilizing pesticides and [growing] genetically modified
[crops] organisms. [The] As determined by Council Resolution, the first part shall
utilize a Joint Fact Finding Group (JFFG) convened and facilitated by a
professional consultant to determine the scope and design of the EPHIS within
twelve (12) months of the Notice to Proceed. In the second part of the process, the
EPHIS shall be conducted by a professional consultant with oversight by the JFFG
and shall be completed within eighteen (18) months of the relevant Notice to
Proceed. The EPHIS may make recommendations that include, but are not limited
to, possible actions the County may take in order to address any significant effects,
public health impacts, or both.
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Sec. 22-22.7 Penalties.
(a) Any person, firm, or corporation, whether as principal, agent,
employee, or otherwise, violating, causing, or permitting the violation of any of the
provisions of this Article, shall be assessed a civil fine of $10,000-$25,000 per day,
per violation.
(b) In addition to any penalty described in Subsection 22-22.7(a), any
person, firm, or corporation, whether as principal, agent, employee, or otherwise,
violating or causing or permitting the violation of any of the provisions of this
Article, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, and upon conviction thereof shall be
punished by a fine of not more than two-thousand dollars ($2,000.00), or imprisoned
not more than one (1) year, or both, for each offense. The continuance of any
violation after conviction shall be deemed a new criminal offense for each day that
the violation or violations continue.
Sec. 22-22.8 Rulemaking.
In order to effectuate all provisions of this Article, the Office of Economic
Development may engage in any rulemaking it deems necessary or proper, utilizing
the provisions of Hawai`i Revised Statutes Chapter 91. In so doing, OED is
authorized to collaborate with the State of Hawai`i Department of Agriculture.
SECTION 2. Severability Clause. If any provision of this ordinance or
the application thereof to any person, commercial agricultural entity, or
circumstance is held invalid, the invalidity does not affect other provisions or
applications of the ordinance which can be given effect without the invalid provision
or application, and to this end the provisions of this ordinance are severable.
SECTION 3. New material is underscored. In printing this ordinance,
the brackets, bracketed material, and underscoring need not be included.
SECTION 4. This ordinance shall take effect [six (6)] nine (9) months
after its approval."
(Material to be deleted is bracketed. New material to be added is underscored.)
V:\AMENDMENTS\2012-2014 term\Bill No. 2491, Draft 1 NN &JY#2 10-15-2013 JH
Draft 1, NN & JY#2 12 October 15, 2013
ATTACHMENT D
Draft 1, NN & JY#3 1 October 15, 2013
(Continued October 08, 2013 Meeting)
FLOOR AMENDMENT
Bill No. 2491, Draft 1, Relating to Pesticides and Genetically Modified Organisms
Introduced by: NADINE K. NAKAMURA and JOANN A. YUKIMURA
Amend Bill No. 2491, Draft 1 in its entirety as follows:
"SECTION 1. Chapter 22 of the Kaua`i County Code 1987, as amended,
is hereby amended by adding a new Article 22 to read as follows:
"ARTICLE 22. PESTICIDES AND GENETICALLY MODIFIED
ORGANISMS
Sec. 22-22.1 Findings.
[(a)] In order to establish provisions governing the use of pesticides and
genetically modified organisms (GMOs) by large-scale commercial agricultural
entities on Kaua`i, the Council finds that:
[(1)] Section 1, Article XI of the State Constitution states: "For
the benefit of present and future generations, the State and its political
subdivisions shall conserve and protect Hawai`i's natural beauty and all
natural resources, including land, water, air, minerals, and energy sources,
and shall promote the development and utilization of these resources in a
manner consistent with their conservation and in furtherance of the
self-sufficiency of the State. All public natural resources are held in trust by
the State for the benefit of the people."
[(2)] (b) The growth of commercial agricultural entities engaged in
the use and development of genetically modified organisms and the
widespread use of pesticides in the County of Kaua`i has created a situation
where residents live, work, and commute daily in close proximity to areas
where there is regular application of restricted use pesticides and general use
pesticides.
[(3)] Lel There are increasing concerns about the .direct and long-
term impacts of the large-scale use of pesticides, and the impacts that the
intense agricultural cultivation is having on the land, on the natural
environment, and on human health.
[(4)] Hawai`i Revised Statutes Section 46-1.5(13) states: "Each
county shall have the power to enact ordinances deemed necessary to protect
health, life, and property, and to preserve the order and security of the
county and its inhabitants on any subject or matter not inconsistent with, or
tending to defeat, the intent of any state statute where the statute does not
disclose an express or implied intent that the statute shall be exclusive or
uniform throughout the State."
[(5)] The County of Kaua`i has become a location of increasing
commercial agriculture operations that utilize genetically modified organisms
for the production of crop seed and field testing of new genetically modified
organisms.
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[(6)] (f) Genetically modified plants could potentially disperse into
the environment of the County of Kaua`i through pollen drift, seed
commingling, and inadvertent transfer of seeds by humans, animals, weather
events, and other means. This could have environmental and economic
impacts.
[(7)] (g) Records obtained from the State of Hawai`i Department of
Agriculture indicate that twenty-two (22) different restricted use pesticides,
comprising approximately [5,477.2] 5,477 pounds, and [5,884.5] 5,885 gallons,
were used during 2012 on Kaua`i by five (5) commercial agricultural entities,
which constituted approximately 99% of the restricted use pesticides utilized
by agricultural operations on Kaua`i.
[(8)] (h) In 2012, restricted use pesticides were used on Kaua`i by
agricultural operations (7,727 pounds and 5,892 gallons, or 13%), county
government operations (28,350 pounds and zero (0) gallons of Chlorine
Liquefied Gas for water and wastewater treatment, or 49%), and non-
government operations for structural pest control termite treatment (25,828
pounds and 20 gallons, or 38%).
[(9)] Pesticides have the ability to contaminate groundwater,
and are often toxic to humans, animals, bees, and other insects. Some
restricted use pesticides are banned by the entire European Union.
[(10)] fil Dust and drift from both restricted use pesticides and
general use pesticides sometimes [travels] travel beyond commercial
agricultural operations. Dust, pesticide drift, and long-term exposure to toxic
chemicals are potential sources of pollution endangering human health and
the natural environment.
[(11)] (k) Hawai`i Revised Statutes Section 46-17 states: "Any
provision of law to the contrary notwithstanding, the council of any county
may adopt and provide for the enforcement of ordinances regulating or
prohibiting noise, smoke, dust, vibration, or odors which constitute a public
nuisance. No such ordinance shall be held invalid on the ground that it covers
any subject or matter embraced within any statute or rule of the State;
provided that in any case of conflict between a statute or rule and an
ordinance, the law affording the most protection to the public shall
apply . . . .,,
[(12)] The impacts on the County of Kaua`i of large-scale
intensive cultivation and associated agricultural practices should be further
evaluated.
[(13)] (m) Information pertaining to the intensive use of pesticides
within the County of Kaua`i, and the experimentation and growing of
genetically modified organisms, is currently withheld from the public. Thus,
the public is unable to evaluate the full extent of the impacts on the residents
and environment of the County of Kaua`i.
[(14)] (n) In the interest of protecting the health of the people and
fragile natural environment of the County of Kaua`i, the people of the County
of Kaua`i have the right to know what pesticides are being used on a
significant scale, and [whether or not] what genetically modified organisms
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are being grown within the jurisdiction of the County of Kaua`i. The people
of the County of Kaua`i have the right to know the likely potential impacts on
their human health, and the health of their environment.
(o) It is the intent of the County to collaborate with the State of
Hawai`i Department of Agriculture to support the implementation and
enforcement of this Article.
Sec. 22-22.2 Purpose. The purpose of this Article is to establish
provisions to inform the public, and protect the public from any direct, indirect, or
cumulative negative impacts on the health and the natural environment of the
people and place of the County of Kaua`i, by governing the use of pesticides and
genetically modified organisms, and the penalties associated with any violation of
this Article, or the laws, rules, or any other requirement that may be authorized by
this Article.
Sec. 22-22.3 Definitions. When used in this Article, the following
words or phrases shall have the meaning given in this Section unless it shall be
apparent from the context that another meaning is intended:
"Active ingredient" means:
[(1)] In the case of a pesticide other than a plant regulator,
defoliant, or desiccant, an ingredient which will prevent, destroy, repel, or
mitigate any pest;
[(2)] (b) In the case of a plant regulator, an ingredient which,
through physiological action, will accelerate or retard the rate of growth or
maturation or otherwise alter the behavior of ornamental or crop plants or
the produce thereof;
[(3)] Lei In the case of a defoliant, an ingredient which will cause
the leaves or foliage to drop from a plant; and
[(4)] Lcn In the case of a desiccant, an ingredient which will
artificially accelerate the drying of plant tissues.
"Adult family boarding home" means any family home providing for a fee,
twenty-four (24) hour living accommodations to no more than five (5) adults,
unrelated to the family, who are in need of minimal protective oversight care in
their daily living activities, in compliance with State of Hawai`i or County of Kaua`i
licensing requirements, or both.
"Adult family group living home" means any family home providing twenty-
four (24) hour living accommodations for a fee to five (5) to eight (8) elderly,
handicapped, developmentally disabled, or totally disabled adults, unrelated to the
family, who are in need of long-term minimal assistance and supervision in the
adult's daily living activities, health care, and behavior management, in compliance
with State of Hawai`i or County of Kaua`i licensing requirements, or both.
["Ahupua a" means a land division usually extending from the uplands to the
sea.]
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"Agriculture" means the breeding, planting, nourishing, caring for, gathering
and processing of any animal or plant organism for the purpose of nourishing people
or any other plant or animal organism; or for the purpose of providing the raw
material for non-food products. For the purposes of this Article, "agriculture" shall
include the growing of flowers and other ornamental crops and the commercial
breeding and caring for animals as pets.
"Ahupua a" means a land division usually extending from the uplands to the
sea.
"Certified pesticide applicator" means any individual who is certified under
Hawai`i Revised Statues Section 149A-33(1) as authorized to use or supervise the
use of any pesticide which is classified for restricted use.
"Commercial agricultural entity" means a firm, corporation, association,
partnership, or any organized group of persons, whether incorporated or not, that is
engaged in growing, developing, cultivating, or producing agricultural products.
"County" means the County of Kaua`i.
"Crop" means a plant or product thereof that can be grown and harvested for
subsistence, profit, or research.
"Day care center" means any facility where seven (7) or more children under
the age of eighteen (18) are cared for without overnight accommodations at any
location other than their normal place of residence, in compliance with State of
Hawai`i or County of Kaua`i licensing requirements, or both. This term includes
child care services and other similar uses and facilities consistent with this
definition, and not covered by the "Family child care home" definition.
"DOA" means the State of Hawai`i Department of Agriculture.
"Dwelling" means a building or portion thereof designed or used exclusively
for residential occupancy and having all necessary facilities for permanent
residency such as living, sleeping, cooking, eating., and sanitation.
"Environment" includes water, air, land, and all plants and humans and
other animals living therein, and the interrelationships which exist among these.
"EPA" means the United States Environmental Protection Agency.
"Experimental genetically modified organisms" means organisms that have
not received final approval by the Federal Food & Drug Administration, United
States Department of Agriculture, United States Environmental Protection Agency,
or the appropriate federal regulatory body, for human consumption, release into the
environment, or both.
"Family care home" means any care home occupied by not more than five (5)
care home residents, in compliance with State of Hawai`i or County of Kaua`i
licensing requirements, or both.
"Family child care home" means providing child care services and other
similar uses consistent with this definition where six (6) or fewer children under the
age of eighteen (18) are cared for in a private dwelling unit without overnight
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accommodations at any location other than the children's normal place of residence,
in compliance with State of Hawai`i or County of Kaua`i licensing requirements, or
both.
"FDA" means the Federal Food & Drug Administration.
"General use pesticide" means a pesticide other than one designated as a
restricted use pesticide.
"Genetically modified" means produced from an organism or organisms in
which the genetic material has been genetically engineered through the application
of:
[(1)] In vitro nucleic acid techniques, which include, but are
not limited to: recombinant deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) techniques; direct
injection of nucleic acid into cells or organelles; encapsulation; gene deletion;
and doubling; or
[(2)] (b) Methods of fusing cells beyond the taxonomic family that
overcome natural physiological reproductive or recombinant barriers, and
that are not techniques used in traditional breeding and selection such as
conjugation, transduction, and hybridization.
For purposes of this definition:
[(3)] "In vitro nucleic acid techniques" include, but are not
limited to, recombinant DNA or RNA techniques that use vector systems and
techniques involving the direct introduction into the organisms of hereditary
materials prepared outside the organisms such as micro-injection, macro-
injection, chemoporation, electroporation, micro-encapsulation, and
liposomefusion.
[(4)] An animal that has not itself been genetically modified,
regardless of whether such animal has been fed or injected with any food or
any drug that has been produced through means of genetic modification,
shall not be considered "genetically modified" for purposes of this Article.
"Genetically modified organism" means an organism or organisms whose
genetic material has been genetically modified.
"Ground cover" means small plants such as salal, ivv, ferns, mosses, grasses,
or other types of vegetation that normally cover the ground and includes trees and
shrubs less than six (6) inches in diameter.
"Medical facility" means a facility licensed by the State of Hawai`i to provide
medical services.
"Nurse practitioner" means a person licensed as an advanced practice
registered nurse under Hawai`i Revised Statutes Chapter 457.
"Nursing home" means a facility established for profit or nonprofit, which
provides nursing care and related medical services on a twenty-four (24) hour per
day basis to two (2) or more individuals because of illness, disease, or physical or
Draft 1, NN & JY#3 5 October 15, 2013
Draft 1, NN & JY#3 6 October 15, 2013
mental infirmity, in compliance with State of Hawai`i or County of Kaua`i licensing
requirements, or both.
"OED" means the County of Kaua`i Office of Economic Development.
"Orchard" means the establishment, care, and harvesting of over twenty-five
(25) fruit-bearing trees, including, but not limited to, banana, coffee, guava, papaya,
or persimmon, for the purpose of selling the fruit to others.
"Organism" means any biological entity capable of replication, reproduction,
or transferring genetic material.
"Park" means any park, park roadway, playground, beach right-of-way, or
other recreational areas under the control, management, and operation of the
County of Kaua`i or State of Hawai`i."
"Perennial waterway" means a natural waterway that has continuous flow in
parts of its waterway bed year round during years of normal rainfall.
"Pest" means any insect, rodent, nematode, fungus, weed, or any other form
of terrestrial or aquatic plant or animal life or virus, bacterium, or any other
microorganism, except viruses, bacterium, or any other microorganisms on or in
living humans or other living animals, which the Administrator of the United
States Environmental Protection Agency determines to be a pest.
"Pesticide" means any substance or mixture of substances intended for
preventing, destroying, repelling, or mitigating any pest, and any substance or
mixture of substances intended for use as an attractant, plant regulator, defoliant,
or desiccant. A product shall be deemed to be a pesticide regardless of whether it is
intended for use as packaged, or as a dilution or mixture with substances such as
carriers or baits. Products not considered pesticides include:
[(1)] Deodorants, bleaching agents, and cleaning agents for
which no pesticidal claims are made or implied;
[(2)] (b) Embalming fluids;
[(3)] Building materials which have been treated to protect the
material itself against any pest and bear no claims for protection of other
surfaces or objects;
[(4)] .d,) Fabrics which have been treated to protect the fabric
itself from insects, fungi, or any other pests;
[(5)] f / Fertilizer and other plant nutrients; and
[(6)] (f) Products intended only for use after further processing or
manufacturing such as grinding to dust or other operations.
"Physician" means an individual authorized to practice medicine or
osteopathy under Hawai`i Revised Statutes Chapter 453.
Draft 1, NN & JY#3 6 October 15, 2013
Draft 1, NN & JY#3 7 October 15, 2013
"Public roadway" means a roadway on which the public is allowed to
generally travel in a vehicle without obtaining special permission, or providing
advance notice.
"Registered beekeeper" means a person registered with the Hawai`i Apiary
Program, through the State of Hawai`i Department of Agriculture.
"Residential care home" means any care home facility occupied by more than
five (5) care home residents, in compliance with State of Hawai`i or County of Kaua`i
licensing requirements, or both.
"Restricted-entry interval" means the time after the end of a pesticide
application during which entry into the treated area is restricted, as contained
within the Worker Protection Standard for Agricultural Pesticides regulation
established by the Environmental Protection Agency, and specified on all
agricultural plant pesticide product labels.
"Restricted use pesticide" means:
[(1)] A pesticide or pesticide use classified by the
Administrator of the United States Environmental Protection Agency for use
by certified applicators or competent persons under their direct supervision
and so designated on the label of the pesticide; or
[(2)] (b) A pesticide or pesticide use classified by the Hawai`i
Board of Agriculture for use by certified applicators or competent persons
under their direct supervision.
"School" means an institution with an organized curriculum offering
instruction.
"Shoreline" means the upper reaches of the wash of the waves, other than
storm and seismic waves, at high tide during the season of the year in which the
highest wash of the waves occurs, usually evidenced by the edge of vegetation
growth, or the upper limit of debris left by the wash of the waves.
"Significant effect" means the sum of effects on the quality of the
environment, including actions that irrevocably commit a natural resource, curtail
the range of beneficial uses of the environment, are contrary to the State's
environmental policies or long-term environmental goals as established by law, or
adversely affect the economic welfare, social welfare, or cultural practices of the
community and State.
"USDA" means the United States Department of Agriculture.
"Worker protection standard" means the Worker Protection Standard for
Agricultural Pesticides regulation established by the Environmental Protection
Agency, which is aimed at reducing the risk of pesticide poisonings and injuries
among agricultural workers and pesticide handlers, and contains requirements for
pesticide safety training, notification of pesticide applications, use of personal
protective equipment, restricted-entry intervals after pesticide application,
decontamination supplies, and emergency medical assistance.
Draft 1, NN & JY#3 7 October 15, 2013
Draft 1, NN & JY#3 8 October 15, 2013
Sec. 22-22.4 Mandatory Disclosure of Pesticides, and
Genetically Modified Organisms.
(a) It shall be mandatory for all commercial agricultural entities that
[annually purchase or use] purchased or used in excess of five (5) pounds or fifteen
(15) gallons of [restricted use pesticides] any single restricted use pesticide during
[any] the prior calendar year to disclose the use of all pesticides of any kind during
[that same] the following calendar year. Disclosure requirements include:
(1) Worker Protection Standard. Posting of warning signs in the
area in which pesticides are to be applied no sooner than twenty-four (24)
hours before the scheduled application of any pesticide. Posting of warning
signs during and after the application of any pesticide shall conform to the
official label of the pesticide. Posting of warning signs at the time of
application shall conform to the worker protection standard established by
the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), and shall remain posted until
expiration of the applicable restricted-entry interval established by the EPA.
The size of all signs, and the symbols and wording on all signs, shall conform
to the worker protection standard established by the EPA. A posting
notification area shall be provided daily for workers, and shall conform to the
worker protection standard established by the EPA, and the State of Hawaii.
(2) Pesticide Pre-Application "Good Neighbor Courtesy Notices."
Pesticide [Pre-application] pre-application notification must be provided to
any [requesting] of the following requesting persons within 1,500 feet from
the property line of the commercial agricultural entity where any pesticide is
anticipated to be applied: registered beekeeper, property owner, lessee, or
person otherwise occupying [any property within 1,500 feet from the property
line of the commercial agricultural entity where any pesticide is anticipated
to be applied.] property within 1,500 feet. Pre-application notification must
also be provided to any revocable permit holder authorized to enter the
property of the commercial agricultural entity. A mass notification list shall
be established and maintained by each commercial agricultural entity, and
shall include access to a legible map showing all field numbers and any key,
legend, or other necessary map descriptions. Any interested [registered
beekeeper, property owner, lessee, or person otherwise occupying any
property within 1,500 feet from the property line of the operation of any
commercial agricultural entity,] person as described in this Section 22-
22.4(a)(2) shall submit contact information to the relevant commercial
agricultural entity. These interested persons may submit up to three (3) local
telephone numbers, and two (2) e-mail addresses. All mass notification
messages shall be sent via telephone, text message, or e-mail, with the
method or methods of transmittal to be determined by each commercial
agricultural entity. Each commercial agricultural entity shall provide an
alternative method of transmittal for any recipient who does not have access
to the technology necessary for the method or methods of transmittal selected
by the commercial agricultural entity. Requests to be included on, or
removed from, the mass notification list must be processed within three (3)
business days. These "good neighbor courtesy notices" shall contain the
following information regarding all anticipated pesticide applications:
pesticide to be used, active ingredient of pesticide to be used, date, time, and
field number.
Draft 1, NN & JY#3 8 October 15, 2013
Draft 1, NN & JY#3 9 October 15, 2013
(A) Scheduled Weekly Applications. Each commercial
agricultural entity shall send regular mass notification messages at
least once during every seven (7) day week period summarizing the
anticipated application of any pesticide for the upcoming seven (7) day
week.
(B) Unforeseen Pest Threat Necessary Applications.
Whenever a pesticide application that was unforeseen and therefore
not contained in the weekly "good neighbor courtesy notice" is deemed
by the commercial agricultural entity to be necessary to alleviate a
pest threat, an additional "good neighbor courtesy notice" shall be
generated to all recipients of the mass notification list within
twenty-four (24) hours after the application.
(3) Pesticide Post-Application Weekly Public Disclosure. Each
commercial agricultural entity shall submit regular public disclosure reports
once during every seven (7) day week period compiling the actual application
of all pesticides during the prior week. These weekly public disclosure
reports shall contain the following information regarding all actual pesticide
applications: date; time; field number; total acreage; trade name of pesticide
used; EPA registration number; active ingredient of pesticide used; gallons or
pounds of pesticide used; and temperature, wind direction, and wind speed at
time of pesticide application. Each commercial agricultural entity shall
submit all public disclosure reports to the County of Kaua`i Office of
Economic Development (OED), and shall include online access to a legible
map showing all field numbers and any key, legend, or other necessary map
descriptions for all applicable commercial agricultural entities. All public
disclosure reports shall be posted online, and available for viewing and
download by any interested persons. OED shall develop a standardized
reporting form.
(4) Pesticide Post-Application Urgent/Emergency Care Disclosure.
Each commercial agricultural entity shall establish an emergency response
hotline to be made available to any licensed physician or nurse practitioner
practicing in association with a clinic, medical facility, or emergency center.
Within six (6) hours of a request from any such licensed physician or nurse
practitioner who provides a documented medical need, the commercial
agricultural entity must provide the following information regarding all
actual pesticide applications related to the alleged incident: date; time; field
number; total acreage; trade name of pesticide used; EPA registration
number; active ingredient of pesticide used; gallons or pounds of pesticide
used; and temperature, wind direction, and wind speed at time of pesticide
application.
(b) It shall be mandatory for all commercial agricultural entities that
intentionally or knowingly possess any genetically modified organism to disclose the
[presence of] growing of said genetically modified organism.
(1) Annual public reports [of all genetically modified organisms
intentionally or knowingly possessed during each calendar year] shall be
provided to the Office of Economic Development and the State of Hawai`i
Department of Agriculture (DOA), and shall be posted online on the County
website. Direct notification to [the Department] OED and DOA documenting
such disclosure shall occur no later than sixty (60) days following the end of
Draft 1, NN & JY#3 9 October 15, 2013
•
Draft 1, NN & JY#3 10 October 15, 2013
each calendar year, except that the first reports shall be due on the date this
ordinance shall take effect.
(2) [Disclosure] Annual public reports shall include a general
description of each genetically modified organism (e.g., "GMO Corn" or "GMO
Sov"), a general description of the geographic location including at minimum
the Tax Map Key and ahupua a where each genetically modified organism is
being grown or developed, and dates that each genetically modified organism
was initially introduced to the land in question."
Sec. 22-22.5 Pesticide Buffer Zones.
(a) [Effective January 1, 2014 it] It shall be mandatory for all commercial
agricultural entities that [annually purchase or use] purchased or used in excess of
five (5) pounds or fifteen (15) gallons of [restricted use pesticides] any single
restricted use pesticide during [any] the prior calendar year to restrict the growing
of crops, except ground cover to which no pesticide is applied, and thereby restrict
the application of all pesticides in the following areas:
(1) [No pesticide of any kind may be used] No crops may be grown
within 500 feet of any [school, medical facility,] adult family boarding home,
adult family group living home, day care center, family care home, family
child care home, medical facility, nursing home, [or] residential care home[.],_
or school.
(2) [No pesticide of any kind may be used] No crops may be grown
within 100 feet of any park.
(3) [No pesticide of any kind may be used] No crops may be grown
within 500 feet of any dwelling, [except that if the commercial agricultural
entity has an approved Soil and Water Conservation Plan that explicitly
addresses pesticide drift on the dwelling, then no pesticide of any kind may
be used within 100 feet of any dwelling.] unless:
(A) The commercial agricultural entity has an approved Soil
and Water Conservation Plan that explicitly demonstrates no pesticide
drift on the dwelling, then no crops may be grown within 100 feet of
any dwelling; or
(B) The dwelling is owned by the landowner, and occupied by
the landowner or a family member of the landowner, and there are no
other dwellings occupied by third-parties within 500 feet of the
landowner dwelling, then there shall be no pesticide buffer zone
restricting growing of crops in proximity to the landowner dwelling; or
(C) Regarding a mature orchard, the crops of which grow in a
hedge-like manner creating a windbreak effect, if pesticide application
occurs between crop rows from a source no higher than two (2) feet
from the ground, for the purpose of eliminating weeds in the ground,
then no crops may be grown within 75 feet of any dwelling.
[(4) No pesticide of any kind may be used within 100 feet of any
public roadway, except that this restriction shall not apply to any existing
orchard, provided that the orchard posts roadway signs along the roadway no
Draft 1, NN & JY#3 10 October 15, 2013
Draft 1, NN & JY#3 11 October 15, 2013
sooner than twenty-four (24) hours before the scheduled application.
Roadway signs shall be located at the start and end of the field along the
public roadway where application will occur, and shall comply with all State
of Hawaii Department of Transportation requirements.]
(4) No crops may be grown within 100 feet of any public roadway,
except that pesticides may be used within 100 feet of any public roadway if
the commercial agricultural entity posts notification signage on land that is
adjacent to the public roadway no sooner than twenty-four (24) hours before
the scheduled application. Roadway signs shall be located at the start and
end of the field along the public roadway where application will occur, shall
be of a size that is legible from vehicles traveling at the posted speed limit,
and shall comply with all State of Hawai`i Department of Transportation
requirements.
(5) [No pesticide of any kind may be used] No crops may be grown
within 100 feet of any shoreline or perennial waterway that flows into the
ocean. This provision shall not apply to any irrigation ditch or drainage
canal that does not directly flow to the ocean. [This provision shall not apply
to any specific instance where the State of Hawaii Department of Agriculture
has authorized such pesticide use for public health purposes.]
(b) The provisions in Section 22-22.5(a) shall not apply to any specific
instance where any County, State, or Federal government agency has authorized
such pesticide use for public health or safety purposes.
[(b)] If this Section, or any part thereof, is determined to conflict with
any pesticide labeling information [pertaining to such pesticides (restricted use,
general use, or experimental)], the more restrictive and environmentally protective
provisions shall apply."
Sec. 22-22.6 Environmental and Public Health Impacts Study
(EPHIS).
The County of Kauai shall complete an Environmental and Public Health
Impact Study (EPHIS) through a two-part community-based process to address key
environmental and public health questions related to large-scale commercial
agricultural entities [using] utilizing pesticides and [growing] genetically modified
[crops] organisms. [The] As determined by Council Resolution, the first part shall
utilize a Joint Fact Finding Group (JFFG) convened and facilitated by a
professional consultant to determine the scope and design of the EPHIS within
twelve (12) months of the Notice to Proceed. In the second part of the process, the
EPHIS shall be conducted by a professional consultant with oversight by the JFFG
and shall be completed within eighteen (18) months of the relevant Notice to
Proceed. The EPHIS may make recommendations that include, but are not limited
to, possible actions the County may take in order to address any significant effects,
public health impacts, or both.
Sec. 22-22.7 Penalties.
(a) Any person, firm, or corporation, whether as principal, agent,
employee, or otherwise, violating, causing, or permitting the violation of any of the
Draft 1, NN & JY#3 11 October 15, 2013
Draft 1, NN & JY#3 12 October 15, 2013
provisions of this Article, shall be assessed a civil fine of $10,000-$25,000 per day,
per violation.
(b) In addition to any penalty described in Subsection 22-22.7(a), any
person, firm, or corporation, whether as principal, agent, employee, or otherwise,
violating or causing or permitting the violation of any of the provisions of this
Article, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, and upon conviction thereof shall be
punished by a fine of not more than two-thousand dollars ($2,000.00), or imprisoned
not more than one (1) year, or both, for each offense. The continuance of any
violation after conviction shall be deemed a new criminal offense for each day that
the violation or violations continue.
Sec. 22-22.8 Rulemaking.
In order to effectuate all provisions of this Article, the Office of Economic
Development may engage in any rulemaking it deems necessary or proper, utilizing
the provisions of Hawai`i Revised Statutes Chapter 91. In so doing, OED is
authorized to collaborate with the State of Hawai`i Department of Agriculture.
SECTION 2. Severability Clause. If any provision of this ordinance or
the application thereof to any person, commercial agricultural entity, or
circumstance is held invalid, the invalidity does not affect other provisions or
applications of the ordinance which can be given effect without the invalid provision
or application, and to this end the provisions of this ordinance are severable.
SECTION 3. New material is underscored. In printing this ordinance,
the brackets, bracketed material, and underscoring need not be included.
SECTION 4. This ordinance shall take effect [six (6)] nine (9) months
after its approval."
(Material to be deleted is bracketed. New material to be added is underscored.)
V:\AMENDMENTS\2012-2014 term\Bill No. 2491, Draft 1 NN&JY#3 10-15-2013 JH
Draft 1, NN & JY#3 12 October 15, 2013
ATTACHMENT E
Draft 1, TB#1 1 October 15, 2013
(Continued October 08, 2013 Meeting)
FLOOR AMENDMENT
Bill No. 2491, Draft 1, as amended Relating to Pesticides and Genetically Modified
Organisms
Introduced by: TIM BYNUM
1. Amend Bill No. 2491, Draft 1, as amended by amending the proposed
Section 22-22.5 as follows:
"Sec. 22-22.5 Pesticide Buffer Zones.
(a) It shall be mandatory for all commercial agricultural entities that
purchased or used in excess of five (5) pounds or fifteen (15) gallons of any single
restricted use pesticide during the prior calendar year to restrict the growing of
crops, except ground cover to which no pesticide is applied, and thereby restrict the
application of all pesticides in the following areas:
(1) No crops may be grown within 500 feet of any school, medical
facility, adult family boarding home, adult family group living home, day care
center, family care home, family child care home, nursing home, or
residential care home.
(2) No crops may be grown within 100 feet of any park.
(3) No crops may be grown within 500 feet of any dwelling, unless:
(A) The commercial agricultural entity has an approved Soil
and Water Conservation Plan that explicitly demonstrates no pesticide
drift on the dwelling, then no crops may be grown within 100 feet of
any dwelling; or
(B) The dwelling is owned by the landowner, and occupied by
the landowner or a family member of the landowner, and there are no
other dwellings occupied by third-parties within 500 feet of the
landowner dwelling, then there shall be no pesticide buffer zone
restricting growing of crops in proximity to the landowner dwelling; or
(C) Regarding a mature orchard, the crops of which grow in a
hedge-like manner creating a windbreak effect, if pesticide application
occurs between crop rows from a source no higher than two (2) feet
from the ground, for the purpose of eliminating weeds in the ground,
then no crops may be grown within 75 feet of any dwelling.
(4) No crops may be grown within 100 feet of any public roadway,
except that this restriction shall not apply to any existing orchard, provided
that the orchard posts roadway signs along the roadway no sooner than
twenty-four (24) hours before the scheduled application. Roadway signs shall
be located at the start and end of the field along the public roadway where
application will occur, and shall comply with all State of Hawai`i Department
of Transportation requirements.
(5) [No pesticide of any kind may be used] No crops may be grown
within 100 feet of any shoreline or perennial waterway that flows into the
Draft 1, TB#1 1 October 15, 2013
Draft 1, TB #1 2 October 15, 2013
ocean. This provision shall not apply to any irrigation ditch that does not
flow to the ocean.
(b) The provisions in Section 22-22.5(a) shall not apply to any specific
instance where any County, State, or Federal government agency has authorized
such pesticide use for public health or safety purposes.
(c) If this Section, or any part thereof, is determined to conflict with any
pesticide labeling information, the more restrictive and environmentally protective
provisions shall apply."
(Material to be deleted is bracketed. New material to be added is underscored.)
V:\AMENDMENTS\2012-2014 term\Bill No. 2491, Draft 1 as amended TB#1 10-15-2013 JH
Draft 1, TB#1 2 October 15, 2013
ATTACHMENT F
Draft 1, as amended JY#1 1 October 15, 2013
(Continued October 08, 2013 Meeting)
FLOOR AMENDMENT
Bill No. 2491, Draft 1, as amended Relating to Pesticides and Genetically Modified
Organisms
Introduced by: JOANN A. YUKIMURA
1. Amend Bill No. 2491, Draft 1, as amended by amending the proposed
Section 22-22.5 as follows:
"Sec. 22-22.5 Pesticide Buffer Zones.
(a) It shall be mandatory for all commercial agricultural entities that
purchased or used in excess of five (5) pounds or fifteen (15) gallons of any single
restricted use pesticide during the prior calendar year to restrict the growing of
crops, except ground cover to which no pesticide is applied, and thereby restrict the
application of all pesticides in the following areas:
(1) No crops may be grown within 500 feet of any adult family
boarding home, adult family group living home, day care center, family care
home, family child care home, medical facility, nursing home, residential care
home, or school.
(2) No crops may be grown within [100] 250 feet of any park[.],
except that, regarding a mature orchard, the crops of which grow in a hedge-
like manner creating a windbreak effect, if pesticide application occurs
between crop rows from a source no higher than two (2) feet from the ground,
for the purpose of eliminating weeds in the ground, then no crops may be
grown within 75 feet of any park.
(3) No crops may be grown within 500 feet of any dwelling, unless:
(A) The commercial agricultural entity has an approved Soil
and Water Conservation Plan that explicitly demonstrates no pesticide
drift on the dwelling, then no crops may be grown within 100 feet of
any dwelling; or
(B) The dwelling is owned by the landowner, and occupied by
the landowner or a family member of the landowner, and there are no
other dwellings occupied by third-parties within 500 feet of the
landowner dwelling, then there shall be no pesticide buffer zone
restricting growing of crops in proximity to the landowner dwelling; or
(C) Regarding a mature orchard, the crops of which grow in a
hedge-like manner creating a windbreak effect, if pesticide application
occurs between crop rows from a source no higher than two (2) feet
from the ground, for the purpose of eliminating weeds in the ground,
then no crops may be grown within 75 feet of any dwelling.
(4) No crops may be grown within 100 feet of any public roadway,
except that pesticides may be used within 100 feet of any public roadway if
the commercial agricultural entity posts notification signage on land that is
adjacent to the public roadway no sooner than twenty-four (24) hours before
Draft 1, as amended JY#1 1 October 15, 2013
Draft 1, as amended JY#1 2 October 15, 2013
the scheduled application. Roadway signs shall be located at the start and
end of the field along the public roadway where application will occur, shall
be of a size that is legible from vehicles traveling at the posted speed limit,
and shall comply with all State of Hawai`i Department of Transportation
requirements.
(5) No crops may be grown within 100 feet of any shoreline or
perennial waterway that flows into the ocean. This provision shall not apply
to any irrigation ditch or drainage canal that does not directly flow to the
ocean.
(b) The provisions in Section 22-22.5(a) shall not apply to any specific
instance where any County, State, or Federal government agency has authorized
such pesticide use for public health or safety purposes.
(c) If this Section, or any part thereof, is determined to conflict with any
pesticide labeling information, the more restrictive and environmentally protective
provisions shall apply."
(Material to be deleted is bracketed. New material to be added is underscored.)
V:\AMENDMENTS\2012-2014 term\Bill No. 2491, Draft 1 as amended JY#1 10-15-2013 JH
Draft 1, as amended JY#1 2 October 15, 2013