HomeMy WebLinkAbout09/24/2014 Public hearing transcript re BILL#2556 PUBLIC HEARING
SEPTEMBER 24, 2014
A public hearing of the Council of the County of Kauai was called to order by
Mason K. Chock, Sr., Chair, Finance & Economic Development (Tourism / Visitor
Industry / Small Business Development / Sports & Recreation Development / Other
Economic Development Areas) Committee, on Wednesday, September 24, 2014, at
2:38 p.m., at the Council Chambers, 4396 Rice Street, Suite 201, Historic County
Building, Lihu`e, and the presence of the following was noted:
Honorable Tim Bynum
Honorable Mason K. Chock, Sr.
Honorable Gary L. Hooser
Honorable Ross Kagawa
Honorable Mel Rapozo
Honorable JoAnn A. Yukimura
Honorable Jay Furfaro
The Clerk read the notice of the public hearing on the following:
"Bill No. 2556 — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
CHAPTER 5A, KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED, RELATING
TO REAL PROPERTY TAXES (Reinstating the Permanent Home Use Tax
Limit),"
which was passed on first reading and ordered to print by the Council of the County
of Kauai on September 10, 2014, and published in The Garden Island newspaper on
September 14, 2014.
The following communications were received for the record:
1. Lewis, Walter, dated September 24, 2014
2. Mickens, Glenn, dated September 22, 2014
The hearing proceeded as follows:
Mr. Sato: We have two (2) registered speakers. The
first speaker is Ian Miles, followed by Joe Rosa.
Mr. Chock: Mr. Miles.
IAN MILES: Just so I understand, this is putting the cap
back the way it was before? Is that what this means?
Mr. Chock: That is correct.
Mr. Miles: Not exactly.
Mr. Rapozo: Yes, it is correct.
PUBLIC HEARING 2 SEPTEMBER 24, 2014
BILL NO. 2556
Mr. Chock: That is correct.
Mr. Miles: Exactly. I have only been studying this a
couple of weeks. I know you folks are involved, but it seems like removal of the cap
has created a lot of issues and problems here. At first, I could see Councilmember
Yukimura said how it is unfair for some people who come in and buy a house now.
They pay this higher tax rate. I see that point, but as I have weighed each thing, it
really seems like it opens such a can of worms. It is also creating incredible
instability in people's lives in the home market just by the fact they do not know
what their taxes are going to be. I am not quite sure how we got the cap, but it
seems to me, you folks were kind of ahead of the game because it was the coming
thing nationwide when you passed it, but at this point, you are going backwards.
The issue I kind of see here is that if you remove the cap, it is becoming kind of a
mess, from where I am sitting. It is going to wind up with maybe voters getting
together and they get something on the ballot that we pass the cap. Then, there is
really going to be turmoil because usually in most places, it is the voters who have a
tax revolt that does this. In a way, you folks were kind of ahead of the game there.
So, I think reinstituting the cap, at least on a temporary basis until the issue is
clarified would be a really good idea. So, in the past week or two (2) was since I last
came up here. I kind of see the cap as being probably the easiest temporary
solution to a lot of these wallows that are coming down. That is just what I have
come to believe.
Mr. Chock: Thank you for your testimony. We have a
question as well. Councilmember Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes, Mr. Miles, so are you aware that
removal of the cap dropped the taxes for five thousand (5,000) households?
Mr. Miles: I am sure some went up and some went
down.
Ms. Yukimura: Right. So, in advocating the restoration of
the cap, you are advocating that the taxes of five thousand (5,000) households will
go up. Is that what you are advocating?
Mr. Miles: I want a fair system and I really heard your
point regarding that to begin with, but there is a real issue in the lives of most
people. At least all of those people knew what their taxes were before. It is the
stability issue that really comes to the fore and the amount of new rules that you
are having to make to deal with this because it is like you can always kind of tell
what happens in the future by the amount of rules you passed. It does not even
matter what the rules are. They are going to cause more taxes, more
administration.
Ms. Yukimura: Well, it is also easy to favor stability if your
taxes are going down, but not if you are going up.
Mr. Miles: I got in at the beginning. I admit it. I am nt
denying that.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you.
PUBLIC HEARING 3 SEPTEMBER 24, 2014
BILL NO. 2556
Mr. Miles: I am all for fairness. I actually did not mind
my taxes going up a little bit. That would have been fine with me because I know
neighbors who bought later and are paying much higher taxes. It is kind of
throwing out the baby with the bathwater at this point. It is just creating too much
trouble, and people who had counted on it, I guess that is the biggest issue. People
who count on their taxes being a certain thing as I have moved towards retirement,
and suddenly they jump radically...
Mr. Chock: Okay.
Mr. Miles: ...then it is hard to deal with that.
Mr. Chock: Thank you.
Mr. Miles: Whereas if you get in at a certain point, you
taxes, you know you can plan ahead.
Mr. Chock: Thank you for answering it. You have a
question?
Mr. Furfaro: I have a question. I have a question at the
end of this, but I want to make sure we got some clarity here, okay?
Mr. Miles: Okay.
Mr. Furfaro: 2006, I was the author of the cap.
Mr. Miles: Good for you.
Mr. Furfaro: Okay, but here is the situation. We
increased the exemptions and these are the people that Councilmember Yukimura
is pointing to, when we removed the cap. So, there is one million eight hundred
thousand dollars ($1,800,000) of credits that people got with the new allocation of
homeowner use. Those people's taxes went down. On the flip side, we had one
million three hundred thousand (1,300,000) of people that had adjustments going
up, but to put the cap back in, I want to make sure you understand, it is a three
million one hundred thousand dollars ($3,100,000) swing. Here is my yes or no
question to you.
Mr. Miles: Okay.
Mr. Furfaro: If the cap went back in for the purpose of
revamping the entire Tax Code, could you live with the cap going back in only for
two (2) years? Yes or no.
Mr. Miles: Well, you all probably...
Mr. Furfaro: Until we bought time.
Mr. Miles: ...know more about it than me. Putting it
back in temporarily seems like a good idea from where I stand with my
understanding today.
PUBLIC HEARING 4 SEPTEMBER 24, 2014
BILL NO. 2556
Mr. Furfaro: That is all I needed to hear.
Mr. Chock: Thank you.
Mr. Miles: Thank you.
Mr. Chock: Next speaker.
Mr. Sato: The next registered speaker was Joe Rosa,
but I do not see him present.
Mr. Chock: Would anyone like to speak on this item?
Seeing none, we will move to the next. Oh, sorry. Please come up.
STANLEY DOTARIO: Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and members
of the Council. When I first got word about people telling me that their taxes went
up, I looked at my tax and I went, no, mine did not go up. Before August 20th, just
to be sure, I went back and looked at it. I said, "Wow, it went up one hundred ten
percent (110%). So, now, after the workshop after all of you folks explained to me
and Steve Hunt, I was still confused. So, I went to the Tax Department and I asked
the person there, "Why did it come up?" He said, "Well, because we have evaluated
that house higher, and they took away the two percent (2%) tax." I was like, geez,
they give it and they take it back. Then after reading a lot, I listen to you
Mr. Chairman, explaining to me about the two percent (2%) was temporary, right?
Okay. It came up one hundred ten dollars ($110). I can assure you I am not going
to lose my house because it came up one hundred ten percent (110%). I still had a
loan when I was working at Lihu`e Planation in 2000. They shut down. I still own
my house. In sports, the coach sometimes makes hard decisions. Not everybody is
going to agree with the coaches, but like the coaches, you folks have to come up and
run this County. I can assure you, when it comes General Election, I get excited
because from the time I was eighteen (18) years old and all of these people here on
that wall, I voted for them. I voted for all of you people sometime or another, right?
I can say that you folks run this County like how I would run a baseball team. You
cannot be listening to everybody complaining because you would never be able to
play the game right. It has to be run. The government has to be run. One hundred
ten dollars ($110) for me. I am on a fixed income too. I worked thirty-six (36) years
for the Plantation. I think I can manage it, but you folks have to come up with
money somehow. I just love voting in the General Election. I have my right to vote.
If I do not like how you folks are running the team, I will vote for somebody else,
but I want to say thank you very much for what you folks are doing and trying to
run the budget. It is not an easy thing.
Mr. Chock: Thank you.
Mr. Dotario: Thank you.
Mr. Chock: I think we missed your name for the record.
So, if you could state it for the record.
Mr. Dotario: Stanley Dotario. I lived here seventy-one
(71) years on this island.
PUBLIC HEARING 5 SEPTEMBER 24, 2014
BILL NO. 2556
Mr. Chock: Thank you, Mr. Dotario. We have questions
here. Councilmember Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you, Mr. Dotario for being here today,
and thank you for exercising your right to vote. What if your tax bill had gone up
fifteen thousand dollars ($15,000)?
Mr. Dotario: Well, that is for sure I would not be able to...
Mr. Rapozo: Yes, I think your testimony would be
different today.
Mr. Dotario: Yes, it would have been.
Mr. Rapozo: Yes, and I think that is what...and this is a
public hearing. So, I am not going to belabor the point, but the tax increases, a lot
of them were much more than one hundred ten dollars ($110).
Mr. Dotario: Well, that is life, right? You live in paradise.
My house value went up three hundred forty something thousand dollars, right? I.
bought my house for twenty-five thousand dollars ($25,000). I do not think it is
valued right. It is the same house. I lived in for forty-two (42) years, right? But we
have to pay taxes otherwise the government cannot be even run that way, right?
Mr. Chock: Thank you so much. Thank you.
Mr. Dotario: Thank you.
Mr. Chock: Next speaker. No, that is it. Anyone else
would like to comment or speak on this item?
There being no further testimony on this matter, the public hearing
adjourned at 2:48 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
SCOTT K. SATO
Council Services Review Officer
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