HomeMy WebLinkAbout03/27/2014 Council minutes COUNCIL MEETING
MARCH 27, 2014
The Council Meeting of the Council of the County of Kaua`i was called to
order by Council Chair Jay Furfaro, at the Council Chambers, 4396 Rice Street,
Room 201, Lihu`e, Kaua`i, on Thursday, March 27, 2014 at 9:05 a.m.
Chair Furfaro: We have a very, very full calendar today and
there is an order of business that is laid out for March 27th. It will be made
available shortly at the podium. I do also want to say that it is laid out as such
because we have visitors here from the Big Island, from O`ahu, and other parts of
the State as it relates to travel. I also want to again say as our Rules point out, I
will be keeping testimony today to an opportunity to speak for three (3) minutes. I
will not automatically extend six (6) minutes for the purpose of how full the
calendar is, and the calendar is unfortunately this full because tomorrow we
actually start budget. So, many of the budget items will be given other time as well
for public testimony. On that note, Mr. Clerk, I would like to call the meeting order
with an understanding that at the roll call, we will acknowledge that
Councilmember Kagawa will be here at 9:30 a.m. Roll call, please.
RICKY WATANABE, County Clerk: Chair, approval of the agenda.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA.
Mr. Rapozo moved for approval of the agenda as circulated, seconded by
Mr. Chock, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1 (Mr. Kagawa was excused).
The following members answered the call of the roll:
Honorable Tim Bynum
Honorable Mason K. Chock, Sr.
Honorable Gary L. Hooser
Honorable Ross Kagawa (present at 9:18 a.m.)
Honorable Mel Rapozo (excused at 5:25 p.m.)
Honorable JoAnn A. Yukimura
Honorable Jay Furfaro
Mr. Watanabe: Six (6) present.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Before we called roll call, we
already approved the agenda. So, I am sorry if you and I were not coordinated
appropriately, but we can go to the public comment period.
PUBLIC COMMENT.
Pursuant to Council Rule 13(e), members of the public shall be allowed a total of
eighteen (18) minutes on a first come, first served basis to speak on any agenda
item. Each speaker shall be limited to three (3) minutes at the discretion of the
Chair to discuss the agenda item and shall not be allowed additional time to speak
during the meeting. This rule is designed to accommodate those who cannot be
present throughout the meeting to speak when the agenda items are heard. After
COUNCIL MEETING 2 MARCH 27, 2014
the conclusion of the eighteen (18) minutes, other members of the public shall be
allowed to speak pursuant to Council Rule 12(e).
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Is there anyone in the audience
that for time constraints, wants to testify now? Alice.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public comment.
Chair Furfaro: Alice, would you announce what item on the
agenda you wish to speak to before we start your time?
ALICE PARKER: Okay. Alice Parker, and I want to cover
Executive Sessions and Special Counsel costs. I believe that we would be better
served to have our County Attorney's Office handle these special issues that come
up. We need some section in the Attorney's Office that can handle this. I talked to
Al Castillo and he was in accord with this too. I mean, we are spending exorbitant
amounts of money for Special Counsel time after time and if we had a section in the
Attorney's Office, it would really save some money. Maybe they could not do the
whole thing, but it would at least cut down some of the finances that we, the
taxpayers, are burdened with when we have to hire these outside costs. Then the
costs keep going up and up and up and I do not understand that. If there is a
contract, there should be a specified amount and a specified amount of time to
complete it. I think that the Council has asked for progress reports from now on.
So, that would help. Anyway, that is my concern. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Is there anyone else that wishes to speak on
any item at this time? If not, just for the general note, a format had been laid out,
Alice, on September 6th for consideration of the County Attorney on the items you
just talked about with a procedural recommendation and that will be discussed
when we review the County Attorney's Office in budget, and budget starts
tomorrow.
There being no further public comment, the meeting proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: Let us go to Section (E), please, on the
Minutes.
MINUTES of the following meetings of the Council:
February 12, 2014 Council Meeting
February 12, 2014 Public Hearing re: Bill No. 2520, Bill No. 2521,
Bill No. 2522, Bill No. 2523, Bill No. 2524, Bill No. 2525, Bill No. 2526,
Bill No. 2527, and Bill No. 2528
Mr. Chock moved to approve the Minutes as circulated, seconded by
Ms. Yukimura, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1 (Mr. Kagawa was excused).
Mr. Watanabe: There are two (2) more meetings.
February 26, 2014 Special Council Meeting
February 26, 2014 Public Hearing re: Bill No. 2529
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me, Mr. Clerk, I think I read it and
took the vote on the first two (2).
COUNCIL MEETING 3 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Watanabe: Yes, that was the last two (2).
Chair Furfaro: No, but I think I am exempt from one of
those meetings. That is why I voted on the first two (2) and then I was going to
acknowledge that I was not present to vote. So, if I could have the vote on the first
two (2) items, February 12th, both items first, I would appreciate it.
Mr. Watanabe: So, the first approval we are taking is
February 12, 2014 Council Meeting and the February 12, 2014 Public Hearing
re: Bill No. 2520, Bill No. 2521, Bill No. 2522, Bill No. 2523, Bill No. 2524, Bill
No. 2525, Bill No. 2526, Bill No. 2527, and Bill No. 2528. The second meeting is
February 26, 2014 Special Council Meeting and February 26, 2014 Public Hearing
re: Bill No. 2529.
Chair Furfaro: May we have a motion?
Ms. Yukimura moved to approve the Minutes of February 26, 2014 Special
Council Meeting and February 26, 2014 Public Hearing re: Bill No. 2529 as
circulated, seconded by Mr. Rapozo.
Chair Furfaro: I will not be voting to the Clerk. Further
discussion?
The motion for approval of the minutes was then put, and carried by a vote of
6*:0:1 (Mr. Kagawa was excused). (*pursuant to Council Rule No. 5(b) of the
Rules of the Council of the County of Kauai, Chair Furfaro is noted as voting
silent but shall be recorded as an affirmative for the motion.)
Chair Furfaro: Five (5) ayes. Let us go to the Consent
Calendar, please.
Mr. Watanabe: I believe Councilmember Yukimura has a...
Ms. Yukimura: Yes. Mr. Chair, I want to ask that item
number 3, C 2014-80 be taken separately.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. That is on the housing grants?
Ms. Yukimura: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura moved to remove C 2014-80 from the Consent Calendar,
seconded by Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: For the process, we have a Resolution on
that item, so we could have the discussion unless someone is here.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes. May I explain, Chair?
Chair Furfaro: You have the floor.
Ms. Yukimura: I just have a conflict of interest on one (1) of
the items on the Resolution which is some allocation to the Boys & Girls Club. So, I
was going to recuse myself from this communication and that is why I want to take
it separately.
COUNCIL MEETING 4 MARCH 27, 2014
Chair Furfaro: Acceptable?
Mr. Rapozo: That is fine.
The motion to remove C 2014-80 from the Consent Calendar was then put,
and carried by a vote of 6:0:1 (Mr. Kagawa was excused).
CONSENT CALENDAR:
C 2014-78 Communication (02/28/2014) from the Clerk of the Planning
Commission, transmitting the Planning Commission's recommendation to amend
Condition No. 19 of Ordinance No. PM-2004-370, as amended by Ordinance
No. PM-2010-400, relating to the Kukui`ula Workforce Housing and Ordinance
No. PM-2005-374 (Kukui ula Development Company (Hawaii), LLC and Kauai
County Housing Agency, Applicants) (Applicants' petition, Planning Director's
Report and Supplement #1 to Planning Director's Report, on file in the County
Clerk's Office.): Mr. Rapozo moved to receive C 2014-78 for the record, seconded by
Mr. Chock, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1 (Mr. Kagawa was excused).
C 2014-79 Communication (03/07/2014) from the Mayor, transmitting for
Council consideration and confirmation, the following Mayoral appointees to the
various Boards and Commissions for the County of Kaua`i:
1. Civil Service Commission
• Nancy P. Golden —Term ending 12/31/2016
2. Liquor Control Commission
• Paul N. Endo —Term ending 12/31/2016
3. Public Access, Open Space, and Natural Resources Preservation Fund
Commission
• Karen M. Ono —Term ending 12/31/2015
4. Salary Commission
• Lenie F. P. Nishihira — Term ending 12/31/201
Mr. Rapozo moved to receive C 2014-79 for the record, seconded by
Mr. Chock, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1 (Mr. Kagawa was excused).
C 2014-81 Communication (03/14/2014) from the Mayor, transmitting his
Fiscal Year 2014-2015 Budget Message, along with the proposed Operating Budget,
Capital Improvements Projects (CIP) Budget, and Schedule of Charges and Fees.
(Detailed Line Item Budget on file in the County Clerk's Office.): Mr. Rapozo moved
to receive C 2014-81 for the record, seconded by Mr. Chock, and carried by a vote of
6:0:1 (Mr. Kagawa was excused).
C 2014-82 Communication (03/14/2014) from the Director of Planning,
transmitting for Council consideration, a Bill for an Ordinance to amend Chapter 8,
Article 17, Kaua`i County Code 1987, as amended, relating to the Comprehensive
Zoning Ordinance, to increase the fee charged by the Planning Department from
COUNCIL MEETING 5 MARCH 27, 2014
$500 to $750 for non-conforming use certificate fees charged as a part of the
County's Transient Vacation Rental (TVR) program: Mr. Rapozo moved to receive
C 2014-82 for the record, seconded by Mr. Chock, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1
(Mr. Kagawa was excused).
C 2014-83 Communication (03/14/2014) from the Director of Finance,
transmitting for Council consideration, a Bill for an Ordinance to amend Chapter 6,
Article 14, Kaua`i County Code 1987, as amended, relating to the Public Access,
Open Space, and Natural Resources Preservation Fund to establish a floor of
one-half percent (0.5%), as stated in the Kaua`i County Charter, and a ceiling of one
and one-half percent (1.5%) of the annual certified Real Property Tax revenues
appropriated to said Fund: Mr. Rapozo moved to receive C 2014-83 for the record,
seconded by Mr. Chock, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1 (Mr. Kagawa was excused).
C 2014-84 Communication (03/14/2014) from the Director of Finance,
transmitting for Council consideration, a Bill for an Ordinance to amend
Section 21-9.2 of the Kaua`i County Code 1987, as amended, relating to Integrated
Solid Waste Management, to increase the Solid Waste Tipping Fees imposed for
business, commercial, and other nonresidential disposal fees: Mr. Rapozo moved to
receive C 2014-84 for the record, seconded by Mr. Chock, and carried by a vote of
6:0:1 (Mr. Kagawa was excused).
C 2014-85 Communication (03/14/2014) from the Director of Finance,
transmitting for Council consideration, a Bill for an Ordinance to amend
Section 5-2.3 of the Kaua`i County Code 1987, as amended, relating to the Motor
Vehicle Weight Tax, to increase the Motor Vehicle Weight Tax rates for both
Passenger and Freight vehicles: Mr. Rapozo moved to receive C 2014-85 for the
record, seconded by Mr. Chock, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1 (Mr. Kagawa was
excused).
C 2014-86 Communication (03/14/2014) from Council Chair Furfaro,
transmitting for Council consideration, a Resolution requesting that the State of
Hawai`i and affected community members expand eradication and prevention
efforts regarding Little Fire Ants: Mr. Rapozo moved to receive C 2014-86 for the
record, seconded by Mr. Chock, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1 (Mr. Kagawa was
excused).
Ms. Yukimura: So, Mr. Chair, I presume you will now be
voting on C 2014-80, so I will leave the room.
COMMUNICATIONS:
(Ms. Yukimura was recused from C 2014-80.)
C 2014-80 Communication (03/10/2014) from the Housing Director,
transmitting for Council consideration, a Resolution Authorizing the Filing of the
Kaua`i County 2014 Action Plan (Community Development Block Grant) with the
Department of Housing and Urban Development, United States of America, for a
Grant Under Title I of the Housing and Community Development Act of 1974 and
1987 (Public Laws 93-383 and 100-242), As Amended: Mr. Rapozo moved to receive
C 2014-80 for the record, seconded by Mr. Chock, and carried by a vote of 5:0:1:1
(Ms. Yukimura was recused;Mr. Kagawa was excused).
(Ms. Yukimura was noted as present.)
COUNCIL MEETING 6 MARCH 27, 2014
Chair Furfaro: I did not think you went far.
Mr. Watanabe: Council Chair, following the order of the day,
we are on Resolution No. 2014-17 relating to Little Fire Ants (LFA).
Chair Furfaro: Page number?
Mr. Watanabe: Page 7.
There being no objections, Resolution No. 2014-17 was taken out of order.
RESOLUTION:
Resolution No. 2014-17 — RESOLUTION REQUESTING THAT THE STATE
OF HAWAII AND AFFECTED COMMUNITY MEMBERS EXPAND
ERADICATION AND PREVENTION EFFORTS REGARDING LITTLE FIRE
ANTS: Mr. Bynum moved to adopt Resolution No. 2014-17, seconded by Mr. Chock.
Chair Furfaro: I have a motion to approve and a second. I
am also delighted to let you folks know that we have Dr. Vanderwoude here from
the Big Island. I want you to know that this Resolution introduced by myself, deals
with the fact that these Fire Ants could be disastrous for the Hawai`i Islands as it
relates to the economic consequences. We have an expert to talk to us and make a
short presentation, but as many of you know, I was a student exchange in French
Polynesia and had lived in Tahiti for a number of years, and we have Fire Ants that
have exploded in the districts of Papenoo and Papara in French Polynesia to the
point that farmers are actually abandoning the working of the fields. It is that
drastic. So, on that note, I will ask Dr. Vanderwoude to come up and chat with us,
and then we will open for public testimony. Please.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
DR. CASPER VANDERWOUDE, Research Manager, Hawai`i Ant Lab:
Thank you, Mr. Chair and Councilmembers. Thank you for inviting me. My
name is Casper Vanderwoude. I manage the Hawai`i Ant Lab which is based in
Hilo. We are funded jointly by the State Department of Agriculture (DOA) and the
Hawai`i Invasive Species Council (HISC), along with some other grant bodies
depending from time to time, depending on which grants that we are actually
working on.
(Mr. Kagawa was noted as present.)
Chair Furfaro: May I have the staff put a slide up that
shows the Big Island as well as Maui and Kaua`i who may have these colonies so
that when you talk about the Big Island situation and so forth, we can be very
geographically specific of where the problem exists?
Dr. Vanderwoude: Certainly.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Go right ahead.
Dr. Vanderwoude: Right. This shows the three (3) main islands
that we know have Little Fire Ants. The Big Island is most definitely the worst
affected at the moment and in an area between Kalapana and Laupahoehoe up to
COUNCIL MEETING 7 MARCH 27, 2014
an elevation of about two thousand five hundred feet (2,500), proportional
significant number of properties have Little Fire Ants. They have also been
discovered near Kona and in isolated patches between Kailua, Kona and Captain
Cook, and also in Na'alehu, which is the southernmost point. There is a single
infestation on the island of Kaua`i, the Kalihiwai Bay, and we have one (1)
infestation currently on Maui near Waihe`e. Both of those are being under active
eradication. So, we are trying to eradicate those smaller infestations on the
Neighbor Islands. More recently, there have been a few discoveries of Little Fire
Ants on the island of O`ahu was well that are associated with the export of some
infested hapu u logs from the Big Island over to Honolulu. I am guessing you would
like me to talk mostly about what we are doing on this island?
Chair Furfaro: Yes, and actually, we had a short discussion
about the detection and the collection process if someone discovers it, which was
using peanut butter to attract the ants onto a popsicle stick, then putting the
popsicle stick a plastic bag and having it frozen and sent to the State so you can
determine if this is the right ant or Little Fire Ant or something to that effect.
Could you confirm that or give us the right information as to what the procedure is?
Dr. Vanderwoude: Yes, I can. For people who have not
experienced Little Fire Ants, they are probably thinking that this has much to do
about nothing, it is just another ant. Talk to some people that have been living with
this species and you will soon realize that it is a terrible thing to have in your home,
on your property, on your farm or anywhere else.
Chair Furfaro: Eddie, could you — excuse me, Doctor. Could
you check his microphone to see if it is on? It is on?
Dr. Vanderwoude: Would you like me to pull it a little bit
closer?
Chair Furfaro: Maybe you could pull it a little closer. There
we go.
Dr. Vanderwoude: I am just too tall for this thing. So, early
detection gives us a chance to eradicate Little Fire Ants before they become
established. Once an infestation covers spans more than a few acres, it is very, very
difficult to eradicate and certainly very expensive. So, our best weapon in the fight
to prevent this species from spreading is finding them before they become
established. So, we ask all people to be aware of the problem, be aware that Little
Fire Ants are spreading, and if they can, to self-diagnose or self-survey their
properties. It is extremely easy. You simply use a chopstick or a popsicle stick and
smear a very small amount of peanut butter on it, leave a few of those in shady
places around your property where you think you might have Little Fire Ants. If
you do collect ants, pop that stick into a small ziplock bag and freeze it overnight,
and then they can be sent either directly to our lab or to the Department of
Agriculture here in Lihu`e or to the Kaua`i Invasive Species Committee (KISC) base
yard as well. So, there are options as to where they can be sent.
Chair Furfaro: It is confirmed that right at present, Maui
and Kaua`i each only have one (1) location where they have been confirmed to be
present?
COUNCIL MEETING 8 MARCH 27, 2014
Dr. Vanderwoude: That is correct. I know that Kaua`i Invasive
Species Committee have done a lot of surveying throughout the island and as far as
we know, it is only present near Kalihiwai Bay and we have been working for some
years to try to eradicate that. We are actually doing very well. We started in
earnest, about two (2) years ago, two and a half (2'/2) years ago, where at that time
it covered about twelve (12) acres, three (3) properties between the bay and the
Kilauea Wildlife Refuge. At the moment, we have it pretty much pinned to the cliffs
of the bay. So, we have actually managed to pretty much eradicate it from about
ten (10) of those twelve (12) acres. So, now the most challenging part is lift, which
is to free our people to climb down the cliff on ropes and spray those last few
colonies that are actually quite isolated and difficult to reach. That phase of the
project starts the week after next. We will be working with the company called
Climb Aloha, KISC, and our people will be working together to start that particular
project.
Chair Furfaro: We have a representative here from KISC
today as well, and we will be calling him up next to talk about how that technique is
used. On a recent visit that I had on the Big Island, I was surprised that in an area
by Keaukaha. There were actually some ants in the trees?
Dr. Vanderwoude: Yes, that is correct.
Chair Furfaro: They were on the beach as well.
Dr. Vanderwoude: One of the problems with this species is that
it does make nests in trees as well as on the ground and most of the nuisance ants
or pest ants that we have had to deal with worldwide tend to live on the ground
only. So, it makes the job very difficult. It meant that we had to develop special
tools and different ways of dealing with this particular problem. We are currently
working with the County of Hawai`i, Richards and Speech, and the Pana`ewa Zoo
using funds provided to us by the Hawai`i Tourism Authority to develop
management protocols for public use areas. This is going to be an increasing
problem for the County of Hawai`i as more and more public areas become infested.
So, we are working to develop effective and efficient management programs to deal
with that from a County perspective. One of the outputs of that will be a Best
Practices Manual which would be useful to other Counties should this particular
pest spread.
Chair Furfaro: Did I just hear you mention Pana`ewa as
having a colony?
Dr. Vanderwoude: Yes. The area around Pana`ewa is quite
badly infested as is the zoo, which is kind of central.
Chair Furfaro: That is the zoo. May I ask the KISC
representative to come up and join you on the microphone and we can turn the
second microphone on? Maybe you can give us a little bit of an update on the
Kalihiwai infestation and how we are currently working on what you said is left on
the side of the pali there, on the cliff, and what are the arrangements with the
treatment of that, either of you gentlemen.
Dr. Vanderwoude: I think I can take that. KISC has been most
of the work. We have been trying to coordinate and develop the techniques that are
being used. So, most of the heavy lifting is being done by KISC. I would like to
COUNCIL MEETING 9 MARCH 27, 2014
acknowledge the assistance County as well. They have been very helpful with
signage and helping to manage access to the infested areas as well because part of
that site has a public trial through it that has been quite problematic. We have
used a combination of treatments there. We have used standard granular baits
which we can spread on the ground and then we have developed a gel bait which we
are able to shoot up into the trees. Most of the baits that are available
commercially are in this granular form which makes them very difficult to apply to
vegetation. So, we have developed a different bait that is in a more liquid or paste
form that we can apply directly to the trees and deal with those nests that are up
beyond our reach.
Chair Furfaro: Would you like to add anything to that at
this time?
RAYMOND KAHAUNAELE, Field Operations Supervisor for the Kaua`i
Invasive Species Committee: For the record, my name is Ray Kahaunaele.
I am the Field Operations Supervisor for the Kaua`i Invasive Species Committee.
We work under the direction of Casp, Hawai`i Ant Lab, and also with the
Department of Agriculture with Craig Kaneshige. We pretty much have it
contained into a certain area on a couple of properties. Like he said, the most
difficult part would be on the cliff side, getting to those colonies there. We are going
to actually do it in a couple of weeks. We have people coming down to take care of
that.
Chair Furfaro So, what is the follow-up after the
treatment? Do you wait a couple weeks and then you re-inspect it?
Dr. Vanderwoude: What we do is we treat about every six (6)
weeks for twelve (12) months. The problem with trying to control ants is no one (1)
single application of the baits we use will be enough. To give you an idea, in a badly
infested area every square foot of land will have as many as two thousand (2,000)
ants living on that one (1) square foot. So, multiply that across a house lot, which is
ten thousand (10,000) square feet, that is a lot of ants and a single application of
pesticide will only manage to deal with a portion of those. So, what we do is we
treat and then we treat again, and we treat again, and we keep on treating until we
cannot find any ants and then we continue treating again afterwards just to make
sure we got those last few. Once that phase of the project is complete, we then
monitor that site very carefully for three (3) years afterwards to make absolutely
certain that we have not missed that last colony. It is very intensive and it requires
a lot of political will and perseverance. Certainly, Craig Kaneshige from the
Department of Agriculture and my colleagues at KISC have been working on this
for many years and it is really to their credit that we do not have this problem
spread throughout this particular island, that they have managed to contain it
during a period when we did not have the technology to deal with it. Once we have
developed those new techniques, we were able then to go back to that site that have
been effectively corralled by Department of Agriculture and KISC and start this
treatment process.
Chair Furfaro: Gentlemen, I am going to ask the members if
they have questions now. If you do not mind, I am going to open up the floor.
Questions after this update? JoAnn.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes. I first want to thank both of you and
the teams you work with for especially KISC with respect to the Coqui frogs. That
COUNCIL MEETING 10 MARCH 27, 2014
was remarkable success in eradication and the Council as you know, helped to fund
the effort because we realized how critical it was at that point in time. I am
grateful to the Chair for introducing this Resolution to bring attention to the
problem. My questions are, you are talking about treatment and eradiation, how do
we do prevention and what can the community, both individually and collectively,
do to stop the ants from even entering our island?
Dr. Vanderwoude: That is a very good question and there is no
doubt that prevention is the best approach to invasive species. Dealing with them
once they have become established is sometimes hideously expensive. So,
prevention really should be the main arm of any strategy to deal with invasive
species. With Little Fire Ants clearly, the easiest way that they can be transported
from location to location is in things like potted plants. They can be nesting in the
plants themselves, but more often in the potting medium and because of their tiny
size, they can go undetected. Fortunately, the State Department of Agriculture
Plant Quarantine Branch regulates the movement of potted plants between islands.
So, any nursery that wishes to export plants from say, the Big Island to this island,
would require either to have a certified nursery where the nursery is inspected
regularly by the Department to ensure it is free of pests or each individual
shipment will be inspected by Plant Quarantine Officers. So, that pathway of
movement of potted plants is clearly the most important pathway. There are other
pathways as well and that can be people generally carrying potted plants or orchids
or cut flowers or foliage with them when they travel by plane. Many people do in
fact have those items inspected by DOA before they fly, but other people do not. So,
that is a risk. The movement of any agricultural or landscaping commodities like
cinder, hapu`u logs, and landscaping material can also be a risk. So, we are looking
how we can address that and certainly the main shipper here in the State, Young
Brothers, Limited, are very anxious to facilitate the prevention strategies that we
would like to see put in place. So, that leaves smaller things, the lower probability
pathways which are people generally moving things that may be infested whether it
is household goods or personal items. So, being able to raise awareness of the issue
with people generally is a very good strategy to try to cope with those lower risk
pathways.
Ms. Yukimura: So, if people's awareness is really important
can you...I think the people of Kaua`i do not fully understand how horrible it is and
the kinds of problems that arise when there are Little Fire Ants. Can you perhaps
explain, both of you or either or you, explain this in some detail? I mean, your
brochure talks about how pets are affected and how cats and dog pets, can be
basically attacked by ants. I am assuming humans will be greatly affected. I have
heard that farm workers are very much affected. Can you tell us about this?
Dr. Vanderwoude: Yes. The impacts of LFA are quite far
reaching. Just to focus on pets and domestic animals, Little Fire Ants will get
caught up in the fur or the feathers of domestic animals and pets. Invariably some
of those ants will end up around the face and it is highly likely that those ants will
end up being caught on the animal's eyes and at that point when the animal blinks,
the ants become alarmed and start to sting. Those stings become an entry point for
micro-bacteria into the cornea of the eye and that causes progressive blinding of
those animals. That condition is known as Tropical Keratopathy. A little thought,
where there are Little Fire Ants, Tropical Keratopathy is very common. So, it is a
very common sighting in infested areas in Hilo and Puna to see animals that are
either completely or partially blinded. Elsewhere in the State it is quite rare. I do
COUNCIL MEETING 11 MARCH 27, 2014
not know if you have seen animals with cloudy eyes, whether you see that normally,
but in Hilo and surrounding areas, a major portion of domestic pets look like that.
Ms. Yukimura: What about people?
Dr. Vanderwoude: Well, Little Fire Ants sting people too. They
are not particularly aggressive, but they get trapped in people's clothing especially
the ones that are living in trees. It is very easy for them to fall out of the tree. So, if
you are living in an area with Little Fire Ants, you will be subject to a constant rain
of them falling out of the vegetation. Different people react differently, but in
extreme cases they cause quite a painful, almost an anaphylactic reaction. I have a
friend of mine that actually starts to get short of breath and gets extremely unwell.
Ms. Yukimura: You have a picture of the banana trees. So, I
imagine the farm workers who harvest banana trees are affected by this.
Dr. Vanderwoude: Yes, they are. I can speak from personal
experience. I was stupid enough to harvest some bananas from a tree that I knew
to be infested and I did not think about it. Every time I tried to take the bunch off
with my machete, I would get this rain of ants coming down on me and I ended up
getting quite badly stung. Most tropical fruit tree and plant species are ideal
habitats for Little Fire Ants. So, mango, avocado, papaya, rambutan, mangosteen,
all of the crops that are quite common here, and bananas are at the top of that list,
are places where LFA really like to live.
Ms. Yukimura: I mean, it is certainly something we do not
want on our island. So, if people find what they think might be these Little Fire
Ants, what should they do?
Dr. Vanderwoude: Well, they have a number of options. I
described how it is fairly easy to collect samples, but if you believe that you do have
Little Fire Ants or you see a very small ant that you have not seen before, please
call either the Department of Agriculture here in Lihu`e or call KISC and I am sure
that somebody from one of those offices would be more than happy to come out and
do a survey of the property.
Ms. Yukimura: I know that KISC responds very well.
Mr. Kahaunaele: Yes, we usually respond to people
complaining about ant bites and then we will go and do a survey, whatever we
think, we will send to the Department of Agriculture to identify if it is or not LFA.
Ms. Yukimura: And your number is easily found in the
phonebook?
Mr. Kahaunaele: Yes, and we do have web information.
Ms. Yukimura: Website.
Mr. Kahaunaele: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: So, K-I-S-C, right?
Mr. Kahaunaele: Correct.
COUNCIL MEETING 12 MARCH 27, 2014
Ms. Yukimura: Kaua`i Invasive Species Committee, and is
that your website? Well, you can just...
Mr. Kahaunaele: Yes, and then we do a lot of outreach year
round, County Farm Bureau Fair, Garden Fair, and we always have information
there for people.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Last question, our Parks Director said
that there was in infestation at Salt Pond. Was that checked out?
Mr. Kahaunaele: No. We are going to do it sometime this
month. Because of the rain, we cannot. When it rains, they do not really move
around so it is useless to do the survey.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay.
Mr. Kahaunaele: So, I will have it on the schedule for this
month sometime. I will let Lenny and everybody know.
Ms. Yukimura: Alright. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Other members, questions? Go ahead,
Mr. Kagawa.
Mr. Kagawa: First of all, I want to thank you folks for the
work that you do. I think we do not have the big problem like O`ahu yet, but that is
why I think it is important. I thank the Chair for putting it on the agenda and
getting community awareness. I mean, I was not aware that the ants were this
small. I have been bitten by Red Ants before on O`ahu and it was at the soccer field
in Waipi`o. It was red and it was very painful, but it was bigger than this. So, it
was not the Little Fire Ants that bit me in Waipi`o?
Dr. Vanderwoude: No. There is a species that most people here
call "Red Ant" which is a species of solenopsis that has been here since World
War II. They are much larger and they tend to live in open spaces like soccer fields,
sporting areas, and golf courses. Little Fire Ants prefer shady areas, areas where
there is not so much sun. So, that is most of our islands because we have pretty
lush vegetation here.
Mr. Kagawa: Okay. I guess my second question is, there
are popular ant baits that are very effective that homeowners use, right, that Terro
brand? For me, I am basically clueless about pests. My wife is the pest control
person. So, I really should take more interest. How do those types of baits work?
They work well on the black ants. They do not work these types?
Dr. Vanderwoude: Different baits work better for different
species. We have a website, the Hawai`i Ant Lab has a website called
LittleFireAnts.com and you can download information sheets and guides on dealing
with invasive ant species. They are quite detailed and we provide lists of the baits
and other chemicals that can be purchased here in Hawaii. We try to point out
which ones are better for different situations on those manuals that you can
download.
COUNCIL MEETING 13 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Kagawa: Is the theory that same, that they will take
the bait, bring it back to the nest...I guess to the Queen?
Mr. Kahaunaele: Yes, some baits work that way and some
baits are just when they eat it, they die.
Mr. Kagawa: When they eat them, they will die?
Mr. Kahaunaele: Yes.
Mr. Kagawa: Okay.
Mr. Kahaunaele: Actually, you would want something that
would take it back to the nest, but then again, if you continue treating you want to
vary your treatments, maybe try something else because once they get used to one
thing, the population will stay. So, if you can change around your...
Mr. Kagawa: Change around the baits.
Mr. Kahaunaele: Yes.
Mr. Kagawa: Just like fishing.
Mr. Kahaunaele: Yes.
Mr. Kagawa: Okay. Well, is it fair to say that for the red
fire ants, we are still experimenting what works well?
Mr. Kahaunaele: No.
Mr. Kagawa: We kind of know what bait works well?
Because I know one time I had a huge ant problem one time and that is the only
time I took interest. So, I went to the University of Hawai`i (UH) Agriculture store
in the industrial area and I bought the most expensive one they had because I
thought it would work well and it smelled really bad. It smelled like dead fish or
something, but it was quite huge, the pieces of bait.
Mr. Kahaunaele: Granules.
Mr. Kagawa: Yes, but it was not effective. I mean it did
not really help, except my dog kept eating it. It is a true story though. My dog ate
it because it had a strong smell. I did not see the reduction in the ants though with
that expensive one that I bought. That UH person told me that is the best one we
have, but it did not work.
Dr. Vanderwoude: It is exactly like fishing. Different species
are attracted to different kinds of baits. To give you an example, my father-in-law
and I would go fishing in Australia and we both use different kinds of baits. We
would stand beside each other in the water at the beach and at the end of the
afternoon, he would have a bag full of one species of fish and I would have a bag full
of other species of fish just because we are using different baits. So, it is very
important to know which one to use for which situation.
COUNCIL MEETING 14 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Kagawa: Well, I guess my final request is that when
we do find what recipe works, maybe we can have it come back on the Council
because one million (1,000,000) people like Mel said, watch this right here. So, we
can educate and if people have not, maybe they can call you folks and help deal with
it because it seems like once it spreads, you are pretty much...I mean I seen the
news, some of the reports from O`ahu, and once it spreads it is pretty hard to
control. Thank you for your work.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo, you have the floor.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you, and thank you for being here.
What do you folks use to kill it?
Dr. Vanderwoude: There are number of granular baits that we
use and we look for the ones that are most effective and are the least toxic. The
baits we use for the aerial ant, the ants that live in vegetation, is a recipe that I
have developed over the past ten (10) years or so that seems to be very attractive to
Little Fire Ants. Here on Kaua`i, we use an active ingredient in that bait called
methoprene, which is one of the safest pesticides available anywhere. It is a very
slow acting active ingredient, but it does work very effectively.
Mr. Rapozo: Like Ross, at the house I use Andros which is
a granular. I do not know if the camera can get this. Can you get this? I do not
know if you can get that close, but it is small. It looks like it is almost like...you can
see it in comparison to my hand. It is like little ukus, small little. I do not know
how you find this thing, but would something like Andros work on this?
Dr. Vanderwoude: Andros is a good bait. We use a generic
version of it, which is available at the chemical supply stores as well. Effective
treatment is a combination of the right product, but also the right application with
it.
Mr. Rapozo: Right.
Dr. Vanderwoude: It can be very easy to make some small
changes in how you apply those baits to have a big difference in the impact that it
has on the ants.
Mr. Rapozo: Because I had no clue that the Little Fire
Ants, like Ross said, was this small.
Dr. Vanderwoude: There are no smaller ants in Hawai`i.
Mr. Rapozo: There are no smaller?
Mr. Kahaunaele: Yes, that is the smallest ant.
Dr. Vanderwoude: There are two (2) or three (3) species that are
about the same size, but you will not see a smaller ant anywhere in the State.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Chock.
COUNCIL MEETING 15 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Chock: Thank you. I am so thankful that at least on
Kaua`i, we have confined it to Kalihiwai at this point. Also, what I took from what
you had to say was that prevention is the most important and that we have a
process to go through certified quarantine. Can you share anymore about what the
biggest need there is because I have heard some stories about orchids coming from
Hilo and then all of sudden in the backyard you hear the Coqui Frog chirping away
at night? So, I know that is how they are coming. Is there any specific area that we
need to pay attention to? Is it more inspection or tighter restrictions on that? If you
can share anymore on that, that would be great.
Dr. Vanderwoude: I cannot testify as to what the Department of
Agriculture needs or what the Department believes should be done. It is really for
the DOA to talk about. I would just tell people moving from island to island,
whether they are flying or by other means, if you are transporting things like potted
plants or orchids, to just be really, really careful. If you want to bring them into the
DOA office before you fly, they will inspect them for you and that is what I would
recommend that people do.
Mr. Chock: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Well, one of the reasons I put this on so early
is when this Resolution and should it pass, we will send that with our Council
Services to the State Legislature right now because earlier we had sent a Money
Bill to them asking them to reinstate those vacant positions in the Agriculture
Department so that they can have the inspections that are required, especially
importing of hapu`u from the Big Island and so forth is my understanding how the
any actually got towards the North Shore. It was transferred in some hapu'u.
Without the appropriate staffing at the State Agriculture Department, it is very
difficult. So, the intent of this Resolution is to go with our testimony about
re-staffing these positions. Anymore questions folks before I ask for public
testimony? Gentlemen, we really appreciate both of you being here and we are
going to be required from our Rules to take public testimony. Public testimony for
today, I am going to leave with only three (3) minutes because we have such a full
agenda. We are trying to get through items before our budget meetings tomorrow.
Thank you so much. If you have any extra materials, please leave it with our staff,
business cards, anything. Thank you. Public testimony? Mr. Mickens.
GLENN MICKENS: Thank you, Jay. For the record, Glenn
Mickens. I just have a question. I also appreciate the work these gentlemen are
doing to eradicate this problem. I am just wondering whether these exterminating
people on Kaua`i, if they are familiar with this. I know like Ross, my wife handles
the bug situation, but we have an eradication service that comes around about
every two (2) weeks or we will call them sooner. Are they familiar with these types
of ants? I mean familiar enough that they now how to handle them because I did
not really hear the solution as Ross was asking. I did not really hear the main
thing that you kill these particular things with. I have never seen this ant. I would
not know it if I did see it. So, I just wondered if the people here, the eradication
people, are familiar with this. That is all. I do not know whether they can answer
it or not. Thank you, Jay.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Is there anyone else that wants
to speak?
COUNCIL MEETING 16 MARCH 27, 2014
JOE ROSA: Good morning members of the Council. For
the record, Joe Rosa. When I moved into my new home in the 1960s I had an
infestation and I do not know where those fleas came from because I did not have
any cats, no dogs, but I had an infestation in my garage. Fortunately, my garage is
separated from the house. So, in my knowledge what I learned in grammar school,
there was an old pesticide that maybe you people have not heard about. The old
Black Leaf 40. It is a nicotine substance pesticide and I remember that in my
school days. When the chickens used to have lice on them, they said either take
sulfur and dust them under their wings and by their tail or on the pens. You could
get Black Leaf 40 nicotine spray, spray all of the footing of the pens, take the
chickens out, spray on the footing on the pens there, and get rid of the lice. So, I did
the same thing in my garage for the fleas. I sprayed it all with the Black Leaf 40 on
the baseboards between the wall and the baseboard thing, and I got rid of the fleas,
ants, and anything else. So, I thought about using it on my house on the
baseboards. Maybe Mel could see if they still have Black Leaf 40 in the stores and
spray the footing of their homes and the pipes that goes into the house, just spray it
with Black Leaf 40. I sort of solved the ant problem in my house. It is a highly
deadly pesticide because on the bottle it says, "Black Leaf 40" and you see the
crossbones over there of the skeleton signifying it is poisonous. Some you those old
things do work. So, instead of only coming here and telling the people put peanut
butter with a stick, they should have already have looked into some pesticides to get
rid of this here for the homeowners. Do not wait to check to see if it was the Little
Fire Ants. Get rid of it. Get rid of the source immediately. Not dilly dally like a lot
of the things here. Kaua`i is a forgotten island and they say, "We will get to you"
and then it is going to take maybe a week or two (2) before...
Mr. Watanabe: Three (3) minutes.
Mr. Rosa: ...before they get here. That is the policy. I
know the infrastructure, the way the things work on this island. Kaua`i...
Chair Furfaro: Thank you, Joe. The (3) minutes are up.
Mr. Rosa: Yes. It is the forgotten island. So, they
should do something. Look at California when they had the fruit flies. They
sprayed it right away and they got rid of it. In the State of Hawai`i, they wait until
it is too late. So, think about it. Get the State people to get it done before it
becomes a problem. They wait too long.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you, Joe.
Mr. Rosa: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Is there anyone else in the audience that
wants to give testimony?
L'HOTE YOSHITO: Aloha kakahiaka. My name is L'Hote
Yoshito and I happen to live right above the Little Fire Ants in Kalihiwai. They
rain on you when you walk through the trail. It is a real problem. It has been
identified and it has been the same for a long time. So, what I want to communicate
to everybody is, how can the community help, how can maybe exterminators come
and apply some of the poison that you folks would recommend? But I feel like we
need to kill the ants as fast as we can when they identify it and how can we speed
up the process? I want to let you folks know that Kilauea is ready to help in that
COUNCIL MEETING 17 MARCH 27, 2014
manner because we are the only zone that has them and we want to get rid of them.
Mahalo.
Chair Furfaro: Is there anyone else that would like to
testify?
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: Again, for the members, some of you know
that my family's kuleana is right in that area at Puhukamu and certainly concerned
that we address this with help from KISC and the State. I want to thank the
specialist for responding to my request from Hilo to come over, but what I am
hoping that we can do here while the Legislature is still in session is deal with the
general state, having a copy of the Resolution going to them, making them aware of
how important it is for us to address this as we did, JoAnn mentioned with the
Coqui frog in advance. It took us three (3) years, but we are generally Coqui frog
free here, that it is a way to solicit the State to support their staffing, and the
educational purpose that we want with residents on Kaua`i as to what techniques
and what process to go. That is the intent of the Resolution. JoAnn, let me give you
the floor.
Ms. Yukimura: Chair, thank you. I was just wondering if
Dr. Vanderwoude would like to respond to the public testimony in any way,
especially, the question on Kalihiwai on how a community could help. Is that
alright, Chair?
Chair Furfaro: Yes, fine. I think that was excellent. I was
going to turn my file over to the gentlemen that gave testimony.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Chair Furfaro: In particular, the question is posed to you
from Councilmember Yukimura. Is there any greater vehicle that we can do to help
this specific community in Kalihiwai?
Dr. Vanderwoude: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have been working
in that little area for about five (5) years now. The first few years we were really
still doing research to find methods that worked. We have those now. Then we
really need to first of all engage the property owners. There are three (3) property
owners that were all affected, and then we had some regulatory hurdles that we had
to go through. We have been treating there now for about I think, two and a half
(21/2) years. Most of that area is now free of Little Fire Ants. We have a couple of
little hot spots, which are very small and the cliff areas, which would be to the west
of the second trail, the one that runs along the cliff line. So, that is our next step
now, is to deal with those ants at the very edge of the infestation, but I am quite
hopeful that we can eradicate it. Thanks in large part to the assistance from KISC,
from DOA, and also from the County with signage and other assistance. So, I think
we can eradicate it.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay.
Dr. Vanderwoude: I would also respectfully ask that if people do
have some of the older pesticides in the 1960s still in their storage, especially the
COUNCIL MEETING 18 MARCH 27, 2014
ones with the skull and crossbones on it, those are now no longer being used
because they tend to be very residual and they are persistent in the environment.
Most, if not all of those, are now no longer registered because they have discovered
non-targeting impacts to people, animals, and to the environment. So, I would ask
people respectfully, that if they have some of those older chemicals, either to not use
it or be very careful about how one disposes of them. Many of them contain things
like arsenic and other extremely toxic chemicals.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much. JoAnn.
Ms. Yukimura: So, just on the disposal of those pesticides.
They should call somewhere to dispose of them properly?
Dr. Vanderwoude: Yes, there is a Pesticide Branch
Representative here in Lihu`e with the Department of Agriculture and it would be a
very good idea. She is extremely helpful. Anne Kam, I believe, is her name, and I
would definitely contact her about how to dispose of those older pesticides.
Ms. Yukimura: Because your point is that it lasts a long
time in the environment and it is highly toxic?
Dr. Vanderwoude: Yes, some of these older pesticides are
extremely toxic and really need to be handled very carefully.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much. I am going to call one
(1) more time.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: Discussion from the members? Mr. Hooser, I
will start with you and I will go around the table.
Mr. Hooser: Just real briefly, Chair. The presentation
was very informative, thank you. I had some first-hand experience with the Kaua`i
Invasive Species Council with regards to a Coqui frog that one night I heard at my
house going off in Wailua Homesteads. We called and they came out right away
and we got rid of it immediately. So, my compliments to them for their fast work
and they are an important asset to our community. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: JoAnn, I will go to you.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay, thank you. First of all, I want to
thank you, Chair, for introducing this Resolution because it does help increase
awareness and we cannot keep our island free of these invasive species that have
such huge impacts on our economy, life style, and on our well-being without the
help of the community. So, I am glad that we are talking about this issue and I
want to ask that before we vote on it, we have the Clerk read the four (4) "Be It
Resolved" paragraphs because they talk about what needs to be done if you find
these ants on your property. I also want to say that when the Superferry was an
issue, this was part of the issue for us who were really concerned because it would
have just increased the points of coming in whether it is dirt or soil or people's cars.
COUNCIL MEETING 19 MARCH 27, 2014
So, I feel the State is not doing enough to do prevention and I am hoping that there
will be other measures. I hope somebody is working on other measures for control
of incoming nursery plants, dirt, and other plants so that we can prevent these
highly impactful invasive species from coming to our shores.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you, JoAnn. Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: I want to thank the gentlemen for being here
today and all the great work. This presentation was important, but I mostly want
to acknowledge our Council Chair. We all have the opportunity to serve here, meet
wonderful people here, know what is happening in our community, and provide
stewardship. Chair has been a mentor to me in many ways and since early on the
Council, a mentor to our whole community about this invasive species issue.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you, Tim.
Mr. Bynum: I want to acknowledge his good work, in my
view, and I think this is not unfair to say. We would have a huge Coqui frog
infestation if not for the leadership of our Council Chair on that issue when I first
came on the Council. So, this is a continuation of that and it is very much
appreciated. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Before I go to you, Mr. Kagawa, I want to
confirm what Mr. Hooser said about working with KISC, but I want you to know
behind me on the Coqui frog push was JoAnn Yukimura. If you have to track
through Lawa`i Valley at night with a flashlight looking for Coqui frogs, it is better
you pass a Money Bill because she is intense. Mr. Kagawa, you have the floor.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you, Chair. First of all, I would like
to thank Casp, Raymond, and even Craig Kaneshige who is not here. I personally
know Craig and I think he does a wonderful job with the pest control for the
Department of Agriculture. I will be calling him and see how we can help him to
control this problem because I know that it can easily be transferred to more than
Kalihiwai. If we can contain it there, I think that is the important part, to just
contain it there and try and reduce the size there. We do not want it to spread. I
think Kaua`i has done well. Like Councilmember Bynum just said, we do not have
a mongoose problem, we do not have a Coqui frog problem, and I think it is a credit
to KISC and the Department of Agriculture in really controlling pests on Kaua`i and
we need to continue that. These ants give stress to all of us. Those black ants give
us stress when they are around our house, when we are watching television and
they are crawling on us. Imagine these Little Fire Ants, they will put a big sting on
you. So, I think this is a really important one, Chair. I think we have to support,
the Department of Agriculture or whomever it be, KISC, and really contain this
problem. It could be a really bad one. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Mr. Kagawa, I want to thank
you also for bringing it to our attention, the concerns of what is happening on the
West Side park at Salt Pond as well. Thank you. Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess for the public,
www.LittleFireAnts.com is important. A lot of resources there. I am not sure if the
gentleman that testified about the ants that rain on him by the trail is in the area
that you are talking about. It is? You are familiar with what he is talking about?
Okay. I think that is critical, making sure that we keep the State appraised of all of
COUNCIL MEETING 20 MARCH 27, 2014
the possible infestations throughout the island because I think this is something
that we can get a handle on and we should definitely work to that end. Thank you
all for being here, for the information, and I guess we will get updates as time
progresses. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you, Mr. Rapozo. Vice Chair Chock.
Mr. Chock: I just wanted to thank Chair Furfaro for his
leadership, not only for the introduction of this Resolution, but also for the follow-up
to the State to ensure that the preventive measures are being taken care of. I think
that is the biggest piece that we need to look at to ensure that we stop these
invasive species from coming forward. I also like the idea that I think it was
Mr. Mickens that mentioned about sharing the resource of information with our
professionals out there, our exterminators. So, if we can make sure that occurs in
terms of the information you folks have had to share. I am sure that they are
dealing with it, but to know how to deal with it is really important and I am just
looking forward to seeing things happen. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Anyone want a second time?
JoAnn, you have the floor.
Ms. Yukimura: I just want to add on to the compliments that
were given to the Chair and me on the Coqui frog because it was the entire Council
that voted for the budget that was critical, but the real heroes as far as I am
concerned was KISC. I want to acknowledge the leadership of Karen Gunderson
who left recently, but that was fifteen (15) acre infestation of Coqui frogs and it was
the really intelligent approach. Craig was also part of that Committee and Ray too,
I think. They were so scientific in their approach, they were relentless, which is
what you have to be on these issues, and they avoided a horrible situation for all of
us. Can you imagine if the Coqui frogs got down to Po`ipu, the visitor industry, and
all over the island close to our homes? It would have been a miserable thing and
would have had many both economic and life style impacts. So, we were happy to
give money to a team like that, that used the money so well. We really acknowledge
and thank KISC. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you, JoAnn. Before I call a vote, I
also want to echo the work. Karen Gunderson is still in touch with us even though
she had moved on to the West Coast and so forth. It was Karen that worked with
me and with Jenelle from our staff— Jenelle, thank you very much, on the wording
of this Resolution. It was Karen also, we another one that is coming up soon about
the testing of mites for our honey bees. So, that was Karen that helped work with
Jenelle and I on the verbiage for that when we get it. It is only appropriate for us to
really thank Karen for all of the great things she did with her stewardship of our
island. She has always worked very closely with us and we will stay in touch with
her and that was the appropriate thing. Now on that note, we would like to have
some kokua and ask the Clerk to read the portion of the Resolution from "Be It
Resolved."
Mr. Watanabe: We are reading from Resolution No. 2014-17,
which is entitled "RESOLUTION REQUESTING THAT THE STATE OF HAWAII
AND AFFECTED COMMUNITY MEMBERS EXPAND ERADICATION AND
PREVENTION EFFORTS REGARDING LITTLE FIRE ANTS (LFA)."
COUNCIL MEETING 21 MARCH 27, 2014
"BE IT RESOLVED BY THE COUNCIL OF THE COUNTY OF KAUAI,
STATE OF HAWAII, that the County of Kaua`i requests that the State of Hawai`i
continue and expand its prevention and eradication efforts aimed at completely and
permanently removing all Little Fire Ants from all islands of the State of Hawai`i,
by the enforcement of inter-island bio-security efforts, and other methods. In
particular, adequate resources should be expended for controlling and reducing LFA
populations on the Big Island, and preventing current and future movement of LFA
between islands.
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the County of Kaua`i requests that any
property owner, lessee, or person otherwise occupying a location on Kaua`i, who
suspects the presence of Little Fire Ants at that location, immediately report the
suspected presence to either the State of Hawai`i Department of Agriculture
(HDOA), or the Kaua`i Invasive Species Committee (KISC). HDOA, KISC, or both,
may then respond by confirming the suspected presence and, if applicable, engaging
in immediate treatment.
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that if a Kaua`i property is confirmed as
having Little Fire Ants present, to prevent further spread of LFA on Kaua`i, the
person or persons exercising control of the property should, for the good of the
community, cause all green waste to remain on the site of that property until the
property has been deemed LFA-free by the Hawai`i Department of Agriculture.
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that if a Kaua`i plant nursery or plant
distribution center is confirmed as having Little Fire Ants present, to prevent
further spread of LFA on Kaua`i, the person or persons exercising control of the
plant nursery or plant distribution center should, for the good of the community,
cause all products to remain on the site of that plant nursery or plant distribution
center until the site has been deemed LFA-free by the Hawai`i Department of
Agriculture.
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that copies of this Resolution be sent to all
members of the State House of Representatives and State Senate, Governor Neil
Abercrombie, Mayor Bernard P. Carvalho, Jr., Hawai`i Invasive Species Council,
Coordinating Group on Alien Pest Species, Kaua`i Invasive Species Committee, Big
Island Invasive Species Committee, Maui Invasive Species Committee, Moloka`i
Invasive Species Committee, and O`ahu Invasive Species Committee."
Chair Furfaro: Thank you, and thank you, JoAnn for
recommending that we read the "Be It Resolved" portion. Before I call for the vote, I
also want to thank Mr. Steve Hall from our County Attorney's Office who had
worked on the policy statement that was just read. I think Steve is somewhere
today at the County. Thank you, Stephen. Dr. Vanderwoude, we appreciate you
being here from Hilo, and also the representatives from KISC here today, much
appreciated. To the Clerk, I have a motion to approve and a second. I would like a
roll call vote, please.
COUNCIL MEETING 22 MARCH 27, 2014
The motoin to adopt Resolution No. 2014-17 was then put, and carried by the
following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Bynum, Chock, Hooser, Kagawa,
Rapozo, Yukimura, Furfaro TOTAL— 7
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
Mr. Watanabe: Seven (7) ayeas.
Chair Fufaro: 7:0. Very good. Now, to eveybody in the
audience, I want to make sure we have an understanding, I am limiting testimony
today to three (3) minutes. Any further testimony is at the discretion of the Chair,
but we do have so much to cover today with the start of our budget tomorrow. I
want to make sure that you folks understand that. I also want to take the recess for
our ten (10) minutes at this time and I will not be able to thank the Doctor as he is
walking out the door. So, I want to let you know that we would like to be back at
our table here in ten (10) minutes. So, we are on recess and we will be back in ten
(10) minutes.
There being no objections, the Council recessed at 10:16 a.m.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order at 10:30 a.m.,
and proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: Aloha and good morning. Again, this is the
continuation after our recess. This is my intent to the Clerk and to those of you that
are in the audience, the Council has had an opportunity to have individual briefings
on the Kilauea Agricultural Park presentation, individually with the Office of
Economic Development, but we are the day before we start budget. So, we are in a
very difficult position as it comes to getting business done today that sets the tone
for the budget coming forward. So, I am going to take public testimony first because
at 11:30 a.m. we have to break for a visit from our attorneys on other subject items
at 11:30 a.m. and then at 1:30 p.m., we have the ownership presentation on the
rebuild of Coco Palms, but there might be some of you from the North Shore that
have come in, want to give testimony, and if you are in a situation where you are
wanting to give testimony, but have to leave, somehow let the Clerk's staff know
that. We are going to start with taking testimony on this proposal. We will end by
having the Office of Economic Development at some point in time, make the
presentation to the Council as a body, but like I said earlier, the Council has met
individually with these people that have drafted both legal the Department and
Economic Development, the proposal. We have a telephone on? If you could silence
your phone. Oh, that is you, Chief? Somebody in that back, thank you very much.
Your kokua is appreciated. If you do plan to speak, I will be giving you your three
(3) minutes up front and you need to sign up with our staff. Do we have a sign up
list, Mr. Clerk?
Mr. Watanabe: Yes, we have, Chair.
Chair Furfaro: On that note, let us begin by reading the
item.
COUNCIL MEETING 23 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Watanabe: We are on page 5, under Legal Documents,
number two.
There being no objections, C 2014-96 was taken out of order.
LEGAL DOCUMENT:
C 2014-96 Communication (03/05/2014) from the Director of Economic
Development, recommending Council approval of the County of Kaua`i Kilauea
Agricultural Park Agreement with Malama Kaua`i and the Kilauea Agricultural
Committee relating to the Stewardship of Kilauea Agricultural Park Complex
located on real property identified as Tax Map Key (TMK) No: (4) 5-2-004-047 (por.)
and (4)-5-2-004-099 (por.), 75 acres of land situated in the Hanalei District, Kauai.
• County of Kaua`i Kilauea Agricultural Park Agreement for the
Stewardship of Kilauea Agricultural Park Complex located on real
property identified as Tax Map Key (TMK) No: (4) 5-2-004-047 (por.) and
(4)-5-2-004-099 (por.)
Furfaro: How many speakers do we have?
Mr. Watanabe: Six (6) speakers so far, Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Six (6) speakers so far? First offering again
in the audience is, if there is anybody who is planning to testify, please sign up now
for your three (3) minutes. If not, as it is with the six (6) speakers right now, I
guess do we have a representative from Malama Kaua`i? Do we have a poi:, from
Malama Kauai. Keone, I would like to start with you. For the Agricultural
Community Group, the original group, do we have a speaker? Is that you, David?
Who is going to be speaking? Rodney? Okay, thank you. Have you signed up?
Okay. We will call you second then. We have read the item.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
KEONE KEALOHA: Aloha Councilmembers. My name is Keone
Kealoha and I am currently the Executive Director of Malama Kauai. I am going to
be applying for the Stewardship Agreement of the Kilauea Agricultural Park
Complex. This project is over a thirty (30) year project that was originally a
tradeoff between a for-profit developer and the community of Kilauea. I think you
have the documentation in front of you and you know the story. We all know the
story and it has been the same story. I think what is different is that today, the
Council has the ability to change that story and with a majority vote to move this
into the hands of the community. We are more than ready to take on this challenge,
we are committed, and we are dedicated. The community has been ready. There
may be questions that come up as how are you going to do this or how are you going
to address this issue or this infrastructure need or this funding. All of the planning
has already been done. We know that we can get water. The County has done the
study. We know that the land is there. We know that we have the farmers. We
know that there are funding partners out there waiting. We know there are people
that have equipment, skills, and expertise. Every possible person that we would
need, every professional that we would need is part of our community and they are
ready to step forward and make this a reality. All I think we are asking for is the
County Council to be a partner with the community in this project. That is all that
I have to say at this time.
COUNCIL MEETING 24 MARCH 27, 2014
Chair Furfaro: Members, questions for Keone?
Councilmember Yukimura, you have the floor.
Ms. Yukimura: Hi Keone.
Mr. Kealoha: Hi.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you for being here and you are going
to be here throughout so even after George's presentation?
Mr. Kealoha: Yes, I will be here if there is any additional
questions that might be needed, I am able to.
Ms. Yukimura: You said that all of the planning has been
done and that there is water. Do you know how much it will take to bring the water
to the site?
Mr. Kealoha: Well, according to the County's own reports
that were done, the current report states that it would be in the neighborhood of
three million five hundred thousand dollars ($3,500,000) to drill three (3) wells and
provide the infrastructure. So, we know that there is a verifiable source of water
because the County has done that. They commissioned that study and those
numbers. So, that I think, is the starting point. Now, anything that we can do to
reduce the cost, that we can grow partnerships in our community for other sources
of water or other ways that we can obtain water, we are going to look for those, but
we know for certain that we at least have, through the County's own process, a
verifiable source of water for that location.
Ms. Yukimura: But the story I was told is that the County
plan is far too expensive and that by giving this to the community, it will be done
more cheaply through volunteer and other labor. So, I guess I would like to know
what your plan is for getting water to the site and how much it will cost.
Mr. Kealoha: Well, I think I just stated the plan z scenario,
that if we can raise three million five hundred thousand dollars ($3,500,000), it has
already been verified through the County's own contracting, that we do have water
at the site.
Ms. Yukimura: But my understanding was that there is an
alternative plan to the County's plan.
Mr. Kealoha: There is always one of those, yes.
Ms. Yukimura: So, what is the alternative plan?
Mr. Kealoha: Well, I think there are several that are on
the table that we can explore more deeply. Just as an example, Bill and Joan
Porter have a five hundred (500) acre parcel across the highway. They are already
utilizing water from the Kalihiwai Reservoir as far as suppression for an existing
building that is there. There is a culvert that is still in existence that goes under
the highway. There is potentially a new road that is going to be going from the
highway to the town core center as part of the proposed shopping center
development, which will contain an easement, a County easement, I believe. So,
there is a possibility of working with that landowner to provide water to, and
COUNCIL MEETING 25 MARCH 27, 2014
having it get at least to the town core, and then looking at some other partnerships.
I believe the Water Department has a 20/20 plan that is a little behind as far as
implementing it, but one of their items includes replacing the main that goes down
to Kilauea Road. So, there is a possibility of utilizing existing infrastructure. See,
what I am saying though, is that these are possibilities. These are things that we
have looked at. We have a meeting tomorrow with Bill Porter to discuss the water
issue.
Ms. Yukimura: Well, the thing is that this whole history has
been built on possibilities.
Mr. Kealoha: That is right.
Ms. Yukimura: The reason why we are still here today
looking for an agricultural park is because there were possibilities, but there were
no concrete plans.
Mr. Kealoha: And we are here.
Ms. Yukimura: So, that is what I think I as a
Councilmember who is looking to give a Stewardship Agreement to a community
group for a ten (10) year period, wants to know how are you going to use the ten (10)
years to get this thing accomplished. For example, how much water is needed for
you agricultural park plan? Do you now that?
Mr. Kealoha: Well, if you look at the report that was
commissioned by the County, the well that is being proposed, the three (3) wells
address that issue based on the Master Plan that the Council approved. I think you
approved that pan some years ago. So, that is the plan we are implementing. We
are not looking to do anything at this time, than what has already been proposed
and approved by the Council, the Master Plan. So, looking at that Master Plan, it
already dictates what percentages of agricultural activities would be happening on
the parcel and based on that, the projections for the water in those wells was
determined.
Ms. Yukimura: So, the plan that the County has was not
created by farmers. So, I do not know how realistic the plan is, but it is not a
business plan. That is what you really need in order to make something happen.
So, I was wondering if you folks have a business plan.
Mr. Kealoha: I believe that there is some initial performa
material that has five (5) year financial projections and an agate chart timeline. I
think that will be presented a little bit later when the Director of Economic
Development offers his presentation.
Ms. Yukimura: I know I did ask George for that and I hope it
is on its way because it was not given to us when we were briefed individually and I
did ask for it. So, you do not have a business plan though?
Mr. Kealoha: We have done years of work to get to this
point. I think you made reference to the plan that the County Council approved as
the Master Plan for the project and then at the same time, I felt like you said that
might not be the appropriate plan.
COUNCIL MEETING 26 MARCH 27, 2014
Ms. Yukimura: We never approved the plan.
Mr. Kealoha: The Master Plan?
Ms. Yukimura: We never approved the plan.
Mr. Kealoha: There was a Master Plan that was presented
and approved by the County Council some years ago. It was performed by Kimura
International. Are you familiar with that plan?
Ms. Yukimura: Yes. I believe it was done while I was on the
Council. I do not believe we approved that plan.
Mr. Kealoha: It is posted on the County's website.
Ms. Yukimura: That does not mean it has come to us for
approval, but okay. Thank you.
Mr. Kealoha: Okay. Maybe we can check on that.
Chair Furfaro: Keone, before I give the floor to Mr. Rapozo, I
do want to say so we do not get caught up between a business plan and performa,
your group has done a performa though based on anticipated...
Mr. Kealoha: There is an initial performa that has been
laid out based on our best knowledge to this point. You know we have dedicated all
of our time as volunteers to this point. There is no really paid employee of the
agricultural park because in fact at this moment, we do not have an agreement in
place. If we are able to obtain that agreement, what it will do is it will allow
funders to have more confidence in our request for their support. So, that is why I
think it is crucial that when we get that Stewardship Agreement in place, that will
allow us as a community to bring in those funding partners who are kind of waiting
to see that there is some site control that they can invest into the future.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo and then Vice Chair.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you,
Keone. Let me just start. I guess I look at it a little differently as far as where we
go from here because this has been a project in the waiting for a very, very long
time. I think the problem is that the County held onto it for too long rather than
allowing the farmers to work the details. I think that is where the County tried to
be farmers. The County tried to know more than farmers and not maliciously, but
just because they thought they could. After all this time, I think this is an
opportunity for the farmers to now control their fate and I have faith in that. So, I
look forward to this. My question, as I am reading through the actual agreement,
there are some conditions. This land was deeded over to the County because of a
Special Management Area (SMA) permit that they had some conditions. Now, were
all of those conditions met? I guess when I am looking at the budget, the initial
budget in the presentation for the water line irrigation system was six hundred
sixty-two thousand dollars ($662,000) and the current budget is actually three
million seven hundred thousand dollars ($3,700,000). Has the irrigation system
been constructed?
COUNCIL MEETING 27 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Kealoha: No, there is no water to that particular
parcel at this time that I am aware of.
Mr. Rapozo: And your organization is set to move forward
and take that on?
Mr. Kealoha: Yes. Our organization is the 501(c)3
non-profit that is working in partnership with the community. So, really, if you
look at the Stewardship Agreement, Malama Kaua`i as an organization will help to
support the community up to the first two (2) years of the agreement. Within that
time period, probably nine (9) to twelve (12) months is a general estimate of how
long it would take to form a community based 501(c)3 that could take that on. To
answer your question more directly, yes, that is why we are here. We are
completely aware of all of the needs that will have to be met in order for the
property to be realized as it is in the Master Plan, but we are willing to take that
challenge on and we have been for some time.
Mr. Rapozo: Well, I guess my concern is that as I am
reading through the Stewardship Agreement will take on the responsibility of
constructing a water line that was required as a condition of a permit and a
development. In other words, your non-profit and your farmers are going to be
tasked with doing something that should have been done by a developer. That is a
problem I am having. Now, if that is the only way that we are going to get it done,
then fine. Those are the questions that I have of our Administration, is are we
going to hold that developer to some kind of compensation to complete what was a
condition in a development? I do not see how the developer can be forgiven for not
completing that very, very important component of this farm lot. As I am reading
all of these things, it is like you folks and the farmers are saying, "Hey, we are going
to get together and we are going to get the money." That is all good, but at some
point, the developer needs to come back and pay back the people because that is the
condition of the development.
Mr. Kealoha: Right.
Mr. Rapozo: So, I will be pursuing that question with the
County Attorney's Office as well as Planning.
Mr. Kealoha: I appreciate that.
Mr. Rapozo: But that is how I am reading this and as I
am reading the materials that I just got today in the packet, it is even clearer to me
that some of these things should have already been done.
Mr. Kealoha: Yes, and I think what the community is
saying is that we are not saying that it is not an option, we do not want to look at
that piece, but we are willing to take the ball and go ahead and move it forward and
when it comes time to have the conversation, then we would like to be the ones to
say, "Hey, can we have this conversation now." Not necessarily have you folks bear
that whole burden about trying to find out what are the details of the water. We
want to investigate all of the possibilities that we can and if there is some
restitution that needs to come to make that original agreement pono, then we would
be happy to look at what those different options are.
COUNCIL MEETING 28 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Rapozo: I agree. I am prepared to vote on this today.
I want to support this today.
Mr. Kealoha: I appreciate that. The community would
appreciate that.
Mr. Rapozo: I want to set precedence today. I want this
to move forward because we have had it for way too long and we have not made it
happen. I do not believe this should be the deal-breaker, but I also think that this
body as well as the Administration needs to pursue that. Like I said, it could be
years down the road, but at that point, if compensation is warranted whether it is
through an agreement or it is through legal action, that needs to be taken care of.
There was a condition of an approval.
Mr. Kealoha: There is one (1) item in the Stewardship
Agreement. There is a line that reads to the effect of, this agreement recognizes
that there may have been previous requirements or other documents in the SMA
and this agreement does not preclude those items.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Kealoha: But again, at the same time I just want to
reiterate. We are not here to be in opposition to the County. We one hundred
percent (100%) have been working with County folks to get it to this point and we
want to continue to do that in years ahead. We are not here to be an adversary. We
are here to do this in partnership with you folks and however we can figure it out.
We are going to try to get everything done for free or through good will of the
community or their partners as much as we can, but if there is some assistance we
might need like as you suggest, maybe finding out the details of that and maybe
looking at what resources the County Attorney or other things that could help
facilitate that. Very appreciated. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Chock.
Mr. Chock: Thank you, Chair. I think this is a great
celebration to see that this is coming full circle and headed in the right direction for
the community to take the lead on. I also agree with some of what Councilmember
Yukimura's concerns are and I think that those are steps that we need to take. I
think that we can act in good faith to move forward on something knowing that we
have benchmarks that we can look forward to and those are the things that I think
this body is looking for as well. So, if we can continue to partnership on those notes,
then we would be more inclined to just say, "Yes, let us sign this over." We know
that we cannot do it and we need to get it into the right hands. One of my questions
was really about Malama Kaua`i's role. Is the intent to move towards this project to
be its own non-profit or run by its own non-profit and in terms of the timing, when
would that occur? The second question, I will just give it to you now, is obviously
this is community driven and whenever we do something with inclusive of the
community, it can be a long process and we want to make sure that everyone's
voices are heard and so forth. Do you folks have any plans specific to that in terms
of the process that you have in place to engage the community?
Mr. Kealoha: Well, on the first question, in the
Stewardship Agreement itself, it does speak to the timeline for the transfer to a
community based 501(c)3 non-profit. It is anywhere up to two (2) years. The first
COUNCIL MEETING 29 MARCH 27, 2014
two (2) years that Malama Kaua`i would act as that entity and then work directly
with the community to do that. We have lawyers in our community that are willing
to support the project and do some of that paperwork that may be required. A
typical 501(c)3 application can take anywhere from maybe seven (7) to twelve (12)
months to process. So, we fell that the timeline of two (2) years is more than
adequate to meet that timeline. On the other question as far as...
Mr. Chock: Will Malama Kauai be the umbrella to
oversee the community engagement process?
Mr. Kealoha: Yes. We will definitely support, with our
resources as we can. I mean, we have been doing community engagement for
probably over seven (7) years of the length of the organization, but really, the
community is already engaged. As you can see by the number of folks that came
down to support the Kilauea Agricultural Park toady in the middle of the afternoon.
So, I think that as far as doing community outreach, that is the cornerstone of
Kilauea's approach. It has always been a community strong town and there is a
strong Neighborhood Association that is involved and there is a subcommittee on
that organization that is tasked with looking at the agricultural parks. So, there is
already infrastructure, resources, and partnerships that have been created. So,
doing those big meetings, connecting with people, doing the charrettes, just as was
done with the Kilauea Town Plan, a lot of outreach and time spent to collect
everybody's ideas and come up with the best plan possible given the history and the
requirements to meet from the original SMA as well as where our community is
now thirty (30) years later.
Mr. Chock: What is your idea of what the County's role
would be? I know that there are some specific things here that is written up in
terms of how we would support it financially. Is there anything else that you would
see our role in the future in this partnership?
Mr. Kealoha: Yes, I think the County does have some of
the equipment and some of the expertise, whether those are looking at ingress and
E-grass things from the Planning Department, talking to Public Works and maybe
utilizing some of your bulk purchasing power to acquire aggregate materials or
things like that. We are not putting all of those costs on the County, we are just
saying that you might have more available access to some of the things that would
help to move the project forward. So, as we come up and start to distill the plan
who are those potential partners including the County, and how can we best realize
the vision of the Agricultural Park Complex?
Mr. Chock: Okay. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Before we go too much farther, and I am
going to give Mr. Hooser the floor next, I just want to clear up some information
here. For everybody, the final assessment from Kimura & Associates, the plan was
not necessarily approved.
Mr. Kealoha: Okay.
Chair Furfaro: Here is the documentation. It was accepted
by the Administration in December of 2008 from a presentation. It was then
accepted by the County Council on February of 2009. Now, there is a difference
between accepting the document as planned versus approving the plan. So, I do not
COUNCIL MEETING 30 MARCH 27, 2014
want to get caught up on these little points, but that is the difference that we are
spending time on between you and Councilmember Yukimura. I would also like to
say, from that piece that was accepted and I was Vice Chair of the Council then, but
I will share will all of the members here at the table my correspondence that was
followed-up to Mr. James O'Connor. This correspondence basically said I was
making reference to the original plan and some of the things that were left out, and
I think the County still has an opportunity for, dealt with other pieces that it was in
the Crater Hill proposal including a dedication for a school, a dedication for land for
a botanical garden, a dedication for land for an agricultural park that we are
talking about right now, and the provision for irrigation for the agricultural park.
This correspondence was copied to Mr. Costa, Mr. Trask, Mr. Dahilig, and Dee
Crowell at Planning. So, those are things that still have to be ironed out because I
believe there is some potential untied final agreements. So, those are the things
that have to be negotiated. I would like to use this time here because of our tight
schedule, because you already told me you can come back and I would like to
remind my colleagues. We can go deeper into questions and call people back, but let
us use this time for the people that want to give testimony for the facility.
Mr. Hooser has an opportunity to speak to you about questions, but I am saying
after this, I want to make sure we are taking testimony because this will be carried
on later in the day. Mr. Hooser, you have the floor.
Mr. Hooser: Thank you. Thank you, Keone. I really
want to say thank you loud and clear to yourself, to Malama Kaua`i, and to the
entire Kilauea community. I think it is just a wonderful thing that is happening
right now and I think it probably should have happened twenty-five (25) years ago
or so. Could you just briefly maybe list a few of the other partners that are involved
in this program, or key players or participants if you would?
Mr. Kealoha: Well, I think more than anything it is the
community itself and as I stated earlier, we have people with Planning degrees, we
have the lawyers, we have engineers, we have several heavy equipment operators
that do jobs for the County and the State that have already said that they want to
participate, they want to see this agricultural park realized. Through some of our
outreach, we have folks at the State Legislature who are interested in supporting
the project in the future. There are lots of grants that are able to be tapped on
whether that is for doing some of the site work, building some of the infrastructure,
operating some of the educational tracks that are being discussed. There are
Federal programs for this and then there is private foundations that we have
already talked with, some that work at a National scale and I could go on to list
some of those, but we do have those relationships.
Mr. Hooser: Thank you. I think that is the kind of the
point I wanted to get at, is that the County has been working on this and my hats
off to the Director of Economic Development for getting the Stewardship Agreement
together, but you said thirty (30) years?
Mr. Kealoha: A little over thirty (30) years I believe.
Mr. Hooser: So, I believe that for the last thirty (30) years
there has been a lot of planning going on and a lot of we could do this, we could do
that, and the County has not been able to really come to the conclusions and
implement this. I believe what I am hearing you say is that you do not have every
single answer to every single question here today, but that you and your group are
looking at all of the plans that have been in place and that you folks as a
COUNCIL MEETING 31 MARCH 27, 2014
community will figure it out and move it forward and put this land into productive
use. Is that a fair assessment of what you are saying?
Mr. Kealoha: It is, and the original agreement that was
the land was to be used by Kilauea folks to do farming. So, there is really no other
group to step forward except for the one that is before you today, the Kilauea
community. So, it is just a matter of helping us to realize what that promise was
and yes, we are ready. I agree, we do not have every answer to every question and
it is great to do risk assessment and we understand that. We have the partners
though. We have the people in the community and even beyond our community who
have already voiced their promise to help us realize this agriculture park. I think
what we bring to the table is dedication and commitment.
Mr. Hooser: Great. Thank you very much. Thank you,
Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Again to those, I think we have six (6) people
signed up. Am I correct?
Mr. Watanabe: Yes, and in addition, we have seven (7) now.
Chair Furfaro: Okay, we have seven (7). I am sharing with
you now, I think before we break for our next appointment and appropriate notice
has been given. We have Mr. Sproat first, right coming up? Go ahead, David.
David, I would just like you to be giving us testimony right now about the general
concept and the transfer agreement that is before us. Thank you for being here. Go
ahead.
DAVID SPROAT: Council Chair and fellow Councilmembers,
my name is David Sproat and I want to provide a perspective and also answer some
of the questions that were raised here as briefly as I can. I was one of the original
interveners in the project along with Dave Moore and Dave Boynton. I saw this
whole thing as Keone said, I will echo, it was a transfer of values. So, the
subdivision was allowed to go forth. We negotiated that so that this was originally
ninety (90) acres. It became seventy-five (75) because of an engineer design error on
the part of the developer, would go into agriculture and there is an agreement to
that effect it has to in agriculture. It is not the County, and I wish JoAnn would
listen to this or other people, that has held up this process, okay? It was the
developer. For twenty (20) some odd years, the land was never transferred. It was
supposed to be deeded across and we threatened the revocation of the SMA that
allowed the land to be deeded to the County. The County has only held it for the
last five (5) or seven (7) years maybe and they have gone through the planning
process and so forth. So, there is an ownership with Kilauea Town. I am sorry we
do not have all of the answers JoAnn, but a lot of things start with a dream and a
promise. That is how Wiapa started. When you see some dinosaurs like us coming
into the room, you know it is community driven because otherwise we would not be
here. It started that way and I could not bring for example, like Wiapa, that project
to fruition as it is today without the young ones coming on board. That is what you
see with Keone and these others, but we support them one hundred percent (100%).
So, that is a very important point about it was not the County that held it up, it was
the developer. The developer holds a lot of the responsibility. Thank you,
Councilmember Rapozo, Mason, and the rest of you. There is water to the site.
There are five (5) County meters to the site, no five (5). We might have given one
(1) to Jim in this last trade-off when he took one (1) more lot. See, there has been a
COUNCIL MEETING 32 MARCH 27, 2014
lot given to the developer. He took one (1) of the lots that should have been in this
seventy-five (75) acres. It was given to him. As a concession there were only to be
twenty-six (26) I think it became 26B. Anyway, so there is a lot of background why
is has evolved. Now, it had been held up for thirty (30) some odd years mostly
because of the developer. He has tried to sell it a number of times. That is really
important, but I tell you I am excited with the energy I see. I have equipment, I am
going to support it, I will go in there and start clearing, and the County can come in
and support as much as they want. I think there are some very real ideas. As you
notice, Keone could not speak to all of them in detail because some of them are
being negotiated, they are being talked about, and they are being presented.
Mr. Watanabe: Three (3) minutes.
Mr. Sproat: The Porters as you have noticed, they are
very community minded people and I think they will come onboard and support
something like this. I urge the Councilmembers. I thank the six (6) for the support
that you show and I would like to have JoAnn's support on this too. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: You know, again...
Mr. Sproat: I think I heard three (3) minutes that is why.
Chair Furfaro: Members, I do not want to get into a lot of
discussion because we are going to get into that with Economic Development. I
want to take testimony first. I will allow you one (1) question, JoAnn.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Okay.
Ms. Yukimura: So, David, in this arrangement there appears
to be some legal issues that still have to be resolved.
Mr. Sproat: In terms of performance by the developer
maybe.
Ms. Yukimura: Well, how many water meters there are any
maybe one (1) was taken by Mr. O'Connor. What is...
Mr. Sproat: Some matters have to be looked into, yes.
Ms. Yukimura: So, whose job is it going to be to resolve those
legal matters?
Mr. Sproat: Well, we can provide our own legal support
or the County could support us in that if they would like to because we are looking
at a partnership agreement, right? This is what we are looking at.
Ms. Yukimura: Well, partnership agreements are clear
about which roles the partners have. If you do not have clarity, you get all problems
later on. Oh, you were supposed to do it. No, you were supposed to do it. So, I
mean...
COUNCIL MEETING 33 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Sproat: I probably can provide the most background
in terms of what those agreements are because I was there from day one (1). I sat
through every negotiating process with all of the various Councils. I think it took
about two (2) to three (3) years to negotiate this subdivision. I can answer that and
I can speak to the agreements that need to be enforced.
(Mr. Bynum was noted as not present.)
Ms. Yukimura: Well, I am sure you can. If you could solve
the problem by dictating what the solution is, I would love it.
•
Mr. Sproat: I cannot solve the problem.
Ms. Yukimura: But when you talk about dinosaurs, I am one
of them and as you know, I was involved in the advocacy of the condition for the
SMA permit and the Kaua`i Public Land Trust first tried to work on this issue too.
So, there were a lot of steps through this process and like you have pointed out, how
many years to not yet have an agricultural park.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. I do want to say in our Rules, there is
no dialogue going on. This is a point that we can ask questions. I just heard some
history being discussed. I did not hear a question. So, David, I am going to ask
during the break because we will break today, Mauna Kea and the County
Attorney's Office as well as George and the Planning Department, I am not going to
ask you come up, but please verify to me the appropriate number of water meters
hat exists as that is an asset for the land and we should have an exact number.
David, I am going to ask Rodney to come up.
Mr. Sproat: Yes. I was just going to make one (1) last
statement that I, also with Rodney, sat on the original Kilauea Agricultural
Association that was involved in this.
Chair Furfaro: Yes, and that was the reason I wanted the
old timers to come up and testify first. You have a question for David, Mr. Kagawa?
Go right ahead. Question now, not just summary.
Mr. Kagawa: Chief, thank you for coming. I totally
support this project. Is there a possibility of growing taro at some point if we can
get some water coming over?
Mr. Sproat: You could actually grow dry land taro.
Mr. Kagawa: Dry land taro?
Mr. Sproat: Yes.
Mr. Kagawa: With the metered water?
Mr. Sproat: Kilauea has one hundred (100) inches of rain
a year. You could actually grow it without irrigation, dry land taro.
Mr. Kagawa: I know there is a lot of taro grown in
Hanalei, do we have any taro grown in Kilauea?
COUNCIL MEETING 34 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Sproat: Commercially, there may be a few small
patches, but not much, not like Hanalei.
Mr. Kagawa: Is it going to taste as good as yours?
Mr. Sproat: I do not think so.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: David, thank you very much.
Mr. Sproat: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: I want to call up Rodney now. Rodney.
RODNEY YADAO: For the record, my name is Rodney Yadao. I
am here basically for the young people that you see back here. We have been
fighting for agriculture for a long time and I see they are responsible now. So, my
son said to me, "Dad, are you going to go speak?" I told him, "Oh, I do not think so."
I have been to a lot meetings in my life, but thank you for the call up and I hope you
folks see the wisdom. We do not have all of the answers, but we were working it for
a lot of years because the young people, they are interested. Let us give them the
opportunity to do what I could have done. So, please, I speak favorably of this
proposal and I hope all of you support us. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Question? Go ahead, Mr. Kagawa.
Mr. Kagawa: Good to see you again. I have not seen you
for a while. You look happy.
Mr. Yadao: You are off at meetings.
Mr. Kagawa: You look happy in your retirement. What
kind of things do you foresee? I know that you are a farmer at home. What kind of
things do you foresee being successful in growing at that agricultural park?
Mr. Yadao: Kilauea at one time, used to be the capital of
guava. You take the thing that grows out in nature. I have been talking to some of
the young people. They said they are going to grow crops that can sell, number one,
and that is conducive to the growing environment in Kilauea.
Mr. Kagawa: Okay.
Mr. Yadao: That remains to be seen until people come up
with business plans. Any applicant who wants to farm has to have credibility. So,
the Committee is going to go through, what is your business plan and what is your
credibility as far as what you are talking about? That will all come when you talk
about business plans. Any young man who is interested has to be smart to
understand business first. He is not going to just try farm. He is going to come up
with a business plan individually before he comes up to the Committee. So, those
answers in time, will come.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING 35 MARCH 27, 2014
Chair Furfaro: Question? JoAnn.
Ms. Yukimura: Rodney.
Mr. Yadao: Hi, JoAnn.
Ms. Yukimura: Hi. I know we go back a long time. I have
seen much. So, who is going to be the ones that judge the business plans or
evaluate the business plans?
Mr. Yadao: It will be a Committee of community minded
people. They do not have all of the answers either, but it will lead to the credibility
of the individual people on the Board, just like you folks are judging whoever comes
up here to speak. It will be a collaborative decision.
Ms. Yukimura: Will the people who are evaluating know
how to do business plans themselves?
Mr. Yadao: Well, right here is a lot of mentors in the
community. So, it was envisioned that they will be mentor farmers to help thee
young men and women who want to be farmers along the way just like how retired
citizens give back to the community. There are a lot of people in the community
who want to give back and make this agricultural park happen.
Ms. Yukimura: So, it will be successful farmers who are
evaluating?
Mr. Yadao: And business people in the community.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay, and is that written down somewhere
in an organizational plan?
Mr. Yadao: This is the beginning, JoAnn. This is the
beginning of a process that has been going on for a long time. So, like I said, we do
not have all of the answers and all of those answers will come in time.
Ms. Yukimura: Well, just because Keone said all of the
planning has been done...
Mr. Yadao: Yes, we have seen a lot of plans come
through the dirt. When you were Mayor, there were plans then. There was
applications given then, but now it is happening. So, just let us just support what is
happening now and take it from a beginning point. There is nowhere else to go.
Just start from the beginning.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Yadao: And the answers will come.
Ms. Yukimura: If your planning is done, you are more than
at the beginning.
Mr. Yadao: And we can send you the minutes of all of the
meetings to keep you updated on what is going on or you can come. I talked to your
COUNCIL MEETING 36 MARCH 27, 2014
husband about the water. So, the inquiry is out there. There is a spring there and
he volunteered to come down with me to see if that spring is still flowing and then
he can take a measurement. So, there a lot of people in the community who are
willing to take the hike and make it happen.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Rodney, let me ask you a question. Thank
you for the answer about Kilauea. Kilauea is quite an agricultural history with it
with Titcom and all that has gone, even the Valley of Puhukamu. It actually
references a red dry land taro that was grown there. What do you see as the process
of coming back and reporting to the Council on your progress? Would we see that
every six (6) months? What do you think?
Mr. Yadao: I think the Administration has competent
people who has been helping us all along.
Chair Furfaro: And I will ask them.
Mr. Yadao: So, those people will be with us all along, all
the way.
Chair Furfaro: Fair enough.
Mr. Yadao: Economic Development. The Mayor's Office
had been very open and helpful.
Chair Furfaro: Good.
Mr. Yadao: Yes. I think that open line of communication
will certainly continue.
Chair Furfaro: That answers my question. Thank you,
Rodney. Okay, I have instructed my staff at a certain point to actually put an
orange mark on people signing up because we are going to get to a point that we
have to go onto other agenda items that were with us, but I just want to make sure
you folks know that not once, but twice, I reminded people about signing up and I
do not think at 11:30 a.m. when we break we are going to be able to get to all of you.
So, we have taken you name, but it might be 3:00 p.m. by the time we get back to
this item. Let us move on. Next speaker.
EDUARDO TOPENIO, JR., Administrative Assistant to the County Clerk:
Next speaker, Mr. Chair, is Felicia Cowden, followed by Talia Abrams.
FELICIA COWDEN: Aloha. I am Felicia Cowden. I am actually
speaking with four (4) hats, one is person the behind Akamai Backyard, Akamai
Learning, Regenerations Botanical Garden, and the former President of the Kaua`i
North Shore Business Council. I live maybe a quarter ('A) mile from this place and
my Akamai Backyard is something that teaches people and just evangelizes what I
call yardening, and I say I am the lazy princess's guide to gardening. I do not like
to weed, water, or work. I probably have at least one hundred fifty (150) different
successful types of food in my yard. I have so much food, I cannot even give it away
I have so much. We even honestly guerrilla garden that agricultural park right
now. We go and collect avocados, guavas, and all kinds of food out there and when
COUNCIL MEETING 37 MARCH 27, 2014
we feel sorry for seeds not having ground to go in, it gets dumped out there without
water, without inputs, without anything, and it thrives. If you went and you looked
at the agricultural park right now, it is filled with trees and plants. So, when they
say there is not enough water to grow food, I say whoever says that has not looked.
We had a big permaculture class just come here, Regenerations Botanical Garden
has been really behind that. If you use different methodologies like permaculture,
you do not have to water. I do not water my yard and I have all of that food. I live
so close. Our food forest that we have planted up there with Malama Kaua`i and a
handful of other organization, we do not have to turn the water on there. I am not
joking. We do not run a hose. So, when I hear this might get stuck over water, that
really frustrates me because if people know actually how to farm and we could call
it modern methods, but it is really old methods, you do not need it. Uncle Rodney
said that there is a spring there. There is a spring there. I like that you asked
about kalo. At one point I had like three hundred (300) really overhead kalo plants
in my yard that along the water there is a stream that goes down there. You could
plant along there. We learn ways of bringing water up from below in our
permaculture learnings. What I want to say as the former President of the Kaua`i
North Shore Business Council Jim O'Connor was on our Board when this land was
being made possible. We were actually really excited about it. We were trying very
hard to get that to move forward. We were deeply discouraged to see that progress
did not get made and even though I kind of say I am a recovering capitalist or
something, it is still in my blood. Eighteen (18) years have been in business with
Hanalei Surf Company. I have helped incubate lots of little businesses. I am
committed...
Mr. Topenio: Three (3) minutes.
Ms. Cowden: ...to helping people get their business plans
together no problem. Any of these young farmers that I am helping to cultivate
through Akamai Learning, I will back them up. Anybody else I do not know, I will
back them up. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you, Felicia. Any questions? No?
Mr. Topenio: Next speaker is Talia Abrams, followed by
Collin Dana.
TALIA ABRAMS: Hi, I am Talia. I really support this.
Recently, I had an Edible Landscaping Bill that made it to the Senate and is
deferred now, but it is being piloted in Kilauea and I am really excited about that. I
think that this agricultural park and this edible landscaping thing will complement
each other so well. I am so excited about it, I hope you all support it, and go
agriculture. Thank you so much.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much. Next speaker, please.
Mr. Topenio: Next speaker is Collin Dana, followed by Ned
Whitlock.
COLLIN DANA: For the record, my name is Collin Dana. The
Kilauea Agricultural Park is frankly, one of the most exciting developments I have
seen in quite some time as a young aspiring farmer. All of these supposed roads
blocks that might slow us down or get in the way, really, to me, those are just the
next hills that we have to climb. I am not going to let this thing not happen and
COUNCIL MEETING 38 MARCH 27, 2014
there is a whole bunch of people behind me that are in the same frame of mind.
Our kupunas started this, we are going to finish it. This is an investment in the
future of Kaua`i. We all talk about sustainability. This is where the rubber meets
the road. It is time to put our money where our mouth is. The issue of water is a
non-issue to me. Farmers are really resourceful people. One hundred (100) inches
of rain a year. That is mana from heaven. So much we could grow without even
importing water and there are so many people who are determined to see that we
are not even limited by those constraints. So, the idea that this is maybe a sketchy
venture, no, no. There are determined people behind this. I think you folks all
know what determined people look like. We are going to get it done. We are going
to make this happen. So, really, there is no much more for me to say. It is just,
make it good, make it pono, let the community take this and run with it because we
are ready. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Next speaker, please.
Mr. Topenio: Next speaker is Ned Whitlock, followed by
Bradley Smith.
NED WHITLOCK: Good morning Council, Chairman. Ned
Whitlock, farmer of Moloa`a. I have been farming twelve (12) years in Moloa`a on
twenty-eight and a half (281/2) acres. In those years, I have seen over one hundred
(100) young people come through helping me on my farm. To see the enthusiasm
and the spark of joy in these young people today at what is happening in
agriculture, just the thirst for knowledge and how to grow more things, and just the
thrill of greenery sprouting there in the field is something to be (inaudible). As a
farmer for thirty-five (35) years, that is very heartening and to have this youthful
energy behind this project, I just see through. As far as business plans, all you have
to do...I mean go to Kalapo Foods, Steve over there, and ask for their wish list. It is
a whole page of things that you could be. Of course, start with the local markets,
but for a simple drive down to the Young Brothers, you have three (3) huge stores in
O`ahu and Maui that are willing to take all of the corn you could grow, probably all
of the meyer lemons you could grow, and the list goes on and on and on. So, the
opportunity is there. We can grab it. One hundred (100) inches of rain, wow. I get
fifty (50) where I am. So, if you go for citrus or again, taro or things that love that
rainfall, to see a breadbasket right there in the yard. Just for people to change the
paradime from driving to work somewhere to work for somebody else than to be
their own boss and make it happen, and just have fun while they are doing it and be
in association with other people while they are doing it. It is just such a beautiful
opportunity that I hope the Council will support. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Question for you, Ned.
Ms. Yukimura: Ned, I put a lot of weight on what you say
because you have actually farmed for twenty (20) years on Kaua`i, thirty-five (35)
years in your...
Mr. Whitlock: Twelve (12) years here.
Ms. Yukimura: Twelve (12) years on Kaua`i and twenty
(20)...
Mr. Whitlock: Twenty-five (25) in Arkansas.
COUNCIL MEETING 39 MARCH 27, 2014
Ms. Yukimura: Twenty-five (25) total?
Chair Furfaro: No, he said in Arkansas I think.
Mr. Whitlock: In Arkansas. So, thirty-five (35), something
like that.
Ms. Yukimura: Thirty-five (35) years total. So, you feel that
the agricultural park could be a success without any additional water?
Mr. Whitlock: Well, water is great when you are trying to
get something to sprout, but it just depends on what your mix is and what you are
trying to grow. If you are trying to grow lettuce greens, sure, in the summer time
you are going to have some irrigation at some point. Even with the existing meters
they have there, that is a walloping start to get something going. If there are other
possibilities coming in later...I mean drilling a well is not going to take three
million five hundred dollars ($3,500,000) to build a well.
Ms. Yukimura: How much will it cost?
Mr. Whitlock: It is probably one hundred fifty dollars
($150) a foot just for the drilling and then electrical costs. So, for fifty thousand
dollars ($50,000) or one hundred thousand dollars ($100,000) you could have a well
happening right there.
Ms. Yukimura: That would be great to show in a plan. That
is great. Are you going to be one of the mentors?
Mr. Whitlock: Well, I have just been on the sidelines, but I
am glad to share anything I know. Come to my farm and see what is possible. It is
happening.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes, well, okay. Thank you very much.
Mr. Whitlock: Alright. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you, Ned. Next speaker, please.
Mr. Topenio: Next speaker is Bradley Smith, followed by
Adam Asquith.
Chair Furfaro: Bradley and then Adam.
BRADLEY SMITH: Hi Council. My name is Bradley Smith. I
have been farming in Kilauea for fifteen (15) years and for the last eight (8) or nine
(9) years, I have been farming directly across the street from the agricultural park
on land I lease from Mike Strong. That is a little over twenty (20) acres all in fruit
trees. So, I am really farming in the area and just that it is definitely doable. The
land is great, the soil is great, and right now, it is just the seventy-five (75) acres is
almost all just Christmas Berry just sitting there empty. There are junk cars there,
people living in it. It is just being wasted. So, the alternative to have people that
are willing to try and farm it, I do not see how that could be bad. Yes, it is going to
be hurdles and farming is really hard, but we need an opportunity to at least start.
I mean, it has taken thirty (30) years so far. We could drag this thing on for
COUNCIL MEETING 40 MARCH 27, 2014
another thirty (30) it looks likes easily from just the twenty (20) minutes of this
meeting. I think it is just important. I worked on farms for my first ten (10) to
twelve (12) years of farming and my first chance to get into farming on my own was
a mentor offering me a lease, a very reasonable lease, to start farming and since
that, I have been able to get me foot in the door. I support my whole family. We
were able to buy our own land in Moloa`a. It has just allowed me to make a living in
farming. If you do not have access to cheap land, forget it. Land is so expensive out
here. You will never ever make it. If you are a starting out farmer and you are
buying land at fifty thousand dollars ($50,000) an acre that you cannot even live on
and you are just starting with no assets or savings account, it is really, really
difficult. So, this is just an opportunity where the County, the community, and all
of the organizations can give all of these young people a chance and establish
people, anyone really, a chance to grow food instead of working the service industry
or whatever the alternatives are. Not that working in the service industry is bad at
all, but I think there is a sense of urgency for people that are young that want to
grow healthy food or just grow food that...
Mr. Topenio: Three (3) minutes, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Smith: I think there should be a sense of urgency. It
is important that this get passed and not dragged on for twenty (20) more years.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Questions? JoAnn.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you very much for being here. How
many acres do you farm?
Mr. Smith: I farm a total of about thirty (30), but ten
(10) in Moloa`a and then twenty (20) are in Kilauea.
Ms. Yukimura: The twenty (20) acres that you lease, they
were already prepared so to speak? I mean, they were cleared and they had been
farmed for many years?
Mr. Smith: They had, but when I got it, it was not in
good condition. It had been let go. So, it was a couple years to bring it up to speed.
Ms. Yukimura: Do you have irrigation?
Mr. Smith: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: You do?
Mr. Smith: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Do you think you can farm without
irrigation in that area because you are very close?
Mr. Smith: You can, yes. I do no think the water should
be the ultimate hurdle to getting this project done. You could. You just have to be
particular about what you grow. It is like what Ned was saying. You are not going
to be growing lettuce in the summer time, but drought resistant plants and trees. If
you have the energy and you are willing to make it happen, you can make it
happen. You can fill your truck up. Farmers are resourceful. Get a fifty (50) gallon
COUNCIL MEETING 41 MARCH 27, 2014
water tank, fill your truck up, go in the middle of summer, and go water your plants
one at a time, two (2) cups of water to keep them alive.
Ms. Yukimura: So, you grow what across the street from the
agricultural park?
Mr. Smith: It is all fruit trees. So, it is a mix.
Ms. Yukimura: So, that is much easier to grow without
irrigation than, like you said, greens or something like that? So, you are not stuck
if you...
Mr. Smith: I mean it is not easier to grow without water.
It is not easy to grow, but lettuce you are going to have to water every couple of
days. I could not water my trees for a year. I am not going to be taking quality
things to market, but yes, I could just leave my trees alone.
Ms. Yukimura: So, I just want to say that I really agree with
you that there is an urgency and there has been an urgency for the last thirty (30)
years.
Mr. Smith: I mean...
Chair Furfaro: She did not pose a question.
Mr. Smith: Yes, okay.
Chair Furfaro: You do not get your time extended.
Mr. Smith: Alright.
Chair Furfaro: You pose a question.
Ms. Yukimura: No, I truly understand.
Mr. Smith: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you for your testimony. We have
another question for you.
Mr. Smith: Oh, yes.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you for your testimony. What is the
most profitable, or if you want to share it, if not, you do not have to. What is the
most profitable fruits or vegetables that you grow?
Mr. Smith: Well...
Mr. Kagawa: What grows well over there?
Mr. Smith: My most profitable fruit...
COUNCIL MEETING 42 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Kagawa: What grows best in that area?
Mr. Smith: With the fruit trees, like I have avocado,
lychees, and mangosteen. Mangosteen is the most profitable because it is just so
rare and it takes twelve (12) years for the trees to be mature, but I mean, small
plots like this, the key is just diversifying so you do not have all of your eggs in one
(1) basket. It is just the learning curve of finding your market. There is going to be
an incubator program with people getting quarter ('/) acre plots. It is finding your
markets, what you want to grow, and it is getting it to that market. It could be a
number of things. If you get a really good report at the Farmers Market, you could
just making a living at the Farmer's Markets easily.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you.
Mr. Smith: Yes.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you, Brad.
Chair Furfaro: JoAnn.
Ms. Yukimura: Are you a full-time farmer?
Mr. Smith: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: What would you say, how much acreage is it
advisable to have a full-time farmer operate successfully?
Mr. Smith: That is kind of hard to say. I think they are
planning maybe quarter (1/4) incubator lots. You could make a living off quarter (%)
acres. At that, you would need water to make a living off of it, but definitely. If you
are going to work every square inch of that quarter ('/) acre, yes, for sure.
Ms. Yukimura: Are you going to be one of the mentors?
Mr. Smith: I would be, yes, definitely.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you very much.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much. Adam, if you can find
your way to come up. There we go. Adam, I have a statement to make. To all of
you in the audience, we have a group. Adam is going to speak and then I am going
to ask Mr. Pacheko as an officer of Kilauea Community Association if he wanted to
say anything. Then we are going to break for another agenda item. I do not think
we will be back to this at the earliest, it will be 2:30 p.m., maybe later than that.
We have attorneys here and other topic agenda with people coming in from
Honolulu. Adam, you have the floor.
ADAM ASQUITH: Thank you very much. My name is Adam
Asquith. I have farmed on Kaua`i for fifteen (15) years now. I have changed farms
five (5) times and I wonder why I have not made any money doing that. So, it is the
pursuit of land and the security of the land that is the real limit for staring farmers
much less trying to be a successful farmer. So, I am here to support farming in
general. These people who are seeking a place to farm in this project in particular.
Uncle Dave is always `olu olu and even though he has pointed out that is had been
COUNCIL MEETING 43 MARCH 27, 2014
thirty (30) years, he did not really place the blame on the County or the developers.
I would humbly point out that I think that the County does share some culpability
in what has transpired in that thirty (30) years. That thirty (30) years represents a
generation of our community. So, there has been a generation lost that has not had
the opportunity to farm in Kilauea. We all know what has happened to agricultural
lands in that intervening thirty (30) years and the County has, not despite some
efforts, has allowed the logarithmic escalation of land prices to the point where real
farmers cannot purchase land and make a living. We have very, very few examples
of that happening. So, I would argue that the County does have some responsibility
here to help make this happen given the fact that in the larger picture, it really has
not protected agricultural lands from that price escalation and therefore, farmers in
our community from allowing like you did two (2) generations ago. We all know
many, many family farms who made substantial livings off of affordable
agricultural land. That is the big problem. Please find every opportunity you can to
make this happen rather than seeking minor obstacles, which might or might not
impact its success. With regard to the agricultural plans and the success or failure
of this, I am reminded of the classical farmer joke about the after who won the
lottery and when the press asked him what he was going to do now that he is all
rich. He honestly answered, "Well, I guess I will just keep farming until the money
runs out." Nobody goes into arming to get rich, and it is true.
(Mr. Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Mr. Asquith: Eight (8) out of ten (10) people who attempt
to do this will not succeed, but my God, how many restaurants open and shut in
Kapa'a on a weekly basis? It is just the nature of business, right? Farming is no
different. Just because you can find, and I can help you find ten (10) things that is
not in the plan. Please, find it in your capacity to allow it to go forward alright,
please. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you, Adam. JoAnn.
Ms. Yukimura: A successful agricultural park is what I have
been working for years. So, I want to see that happen and below those questions is
this desire. Adam, what kind of land tenure do you think should be given to a
farmer because you said you have been moving through five (5) farms? What sort of
length of time?
Mr. Asquith: A minimum of something like five (5) to ten
(10) years because if you go to the agencies like National Resource Conservation
Service (NRCS) to look to request for money, they want to see some kind of five (5)
to ten (10) year tenureship on the land before they will loan you money. For
example, if you are going to plant any kind of long-term crop you need something in
that term.
Ms. Yukimura: Really, five (5) or ten (10) years is enough?
Mr. Asquith: No, but that is not exactly...you asked what I
was recommending, right? That would at least allow you to make a commitment.
Let me back up and say that what we really should be supporting here and working
as hard as we can is for our farmers to own their land and be able to pay for that
land off of the production on that land, given that we do not have, that is not a
reality right now. Some type of five (5) to ten (10) years guarantee at that land will
allow them to jump in.
COUNCIL MEETING 44 MARCH 27, 2014
Ms. Yukimura: I am aware of agricultural parks around the
State where farmers have a lease and they are not growing food and sometimes it is
bear, but the people have not been able to get them off of the land. So, maybe they
are not even farmers. So, those are going to be some of the management issues that
have to be addresses.
Mr. Asquith: Well, let us not start throwing rocks in a
glass house with regard to who is farming and not farming on agricultural lands
that are approved by the County. Let me tell you right now, I put far more trust...
Chair Furfaro: Excuse me, Adam, you do not need to go
there.
Mr. Asquith: No, but I am just...
Chair Furfaro: No, you do not need to go there.
Mr. Asquith: What I am trying to get at Jay, is...
Chair Furfaro: No, I want to tell you, that was not a fairly
posed question. That was some assumption. You do not need to go there.
Ms. Yukimura: I am sorry. I do not even know what you are
referring to, but I am serious about how you can manage the land so that good
farmers can get it and stay on it. That is what I am asking and I just know from
experiences elsewhere that it is not that easy.
Mr. Asquith: I am sure it is not, but that is one (1) of
hundreds of details that these folks will work out. Let me just say that it is the
limitless analysis, details, and planning that will kill a project like this. The
farming is difficult enough if you allow them to get on the land, right?
Ms. Yukimura: Okay.
Mr. Asquith: No extent of further planning and details
will improve the success of whoever gets on the land.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Thank you, Adam. I want to say that
it is those kinds of details that will make the agricultural park a success. So, thank
you.
Chair Furfaro: Adam, thank you for your testimony.
Mr. Asquith: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Gary, from the Kilauea Community
Association, is there anything you want to add here before we break?
GARY PACHEKO: Thank you, Jay, Councilmembers. I was on
the original plan for this acreage. I still have the records of the original. We were
down to the last two (2) people to sign their agreements when the thing got closed
down. We were very disappointed. Bill Spitz and Jack Gushiken, there were like
three (3) or five (5) of us on the Committee and we were meeting and we were ready
to finalize the thing when the deal was pulled off. At that time, we had the water
COUNCIL MEETING 45 MARCH 27, 2014
from Kilauea Stone Dam. There was an easement through the old plantation ditch
that the water was to be brought down for free, but because the things was canned,
they sold off the land where the free water and pipe to service this area was pulled
out. That is why the problem is now with water.
(Mr. Kagawa was noted as present.)
Mr. Pacheko: If it happened when we originally started,
this would not be a problem and we would have a productive farm area, but due to
the fact that is the past. Let us look forward and push this thing and get this farm
going. It will take some time to clear the land because of all of the worth that is
there, but do not stop it now because you have the energy of the young people that
are willing to try and get this thing going because we know the need of growing our
own fruits and vegetables here. What better place to do it than in the famous
Kilauea? I have been an active member in the North Shore and I am one hundred
fifty percent (150%) in the back of this. I want to ask the Council to please pass this
because this is plus for Kilauea. Kilauea is the leading community that other
communities look up to us because of our involvement in the community in getting
things done. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Any questions for Mr. Pacheko?
No?
Mr. Pacheko: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Gary, you will be our last testifier for this
time.
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
(Mr. Bynum was noted as present.)
Chair Furfaro: I am going to make a couple of
announcements here. First of all, for those of you that have not been able to speak,
it is first of all my decision and this is to the staff, we will probably only have
forty-five (45) minute lunch break today. I see us now needing to go into a Special
Counsel consultation with the legal dealing with our Audit Department. When they
get out of that session, we will go to lunch at 12:45 pm. to 1:30 p.m. At 1:30 p.m. or
so we have the owners with a presentation on an update of Coco Palms. So, I do not
think that we would be able to get back to this item until about 2:30 p.m. So, I
think you have heard from around the table, there are many Councilmembers
including myself that we look forward to this happening and we understand there
may be some risks, but I think we are ready to...like I used to say in high school,
"we might be willing to chance `em." I would like to just tell you, I am sorry. We
need to do this because tomorrow we start our budget and we have to get a lot of
other things out. I think the earliest we will be back is 2:30 p.m. on this item.
Then, at 3:00 p.m. we have the opposite problem. We have too much water in a
place in Koloa that we have to look at. Maybe we could get some water from there.
That is what we need to do. So, Mr. Hooser, I will give you the floor.
Mr. Hooser: Just real briefly, Chair. Since we are ending
this segment and we are going to be going into Executive Session and then going to
COUNCIL MEETING 46 MARCH 27, 2014
lunch, there are many people who may not be here when we come back even though
they will have the opportunity, I am assuming to testify if they would like...
Chair Furfaro: They will.
Mr. Hooser: I think from the public's perspective, and the
public is here, both the public and the television. Based on your request I think
many of us have not been asking questions to allow more and more speakers to
speak. I feel frustrated by that to a certain extent and not because of the nature of
the questions coming out of the Council have been more critical than myself if I was
going to be asking questions, but out a respect for you and the process I have not
done that. So, I want to make sure the community knows that just because I am
not asking questions and many here, that we are interested. I speak for myself. I
support this project one hundred percent (100%) and trust that the community is
smart enough, committed enough, dedicated enough, and has the experience to
make this thing work. I have not had the opportunity and chose not to, again, we
have a busy agenda, to express that along the way, but I just want express that now
in conclusion so that people do not leave here thinking that well, gee, we have not
asked a question or talked or say anything, so we may not care. I just wanted to
make those remarks.
Chair Furfaro: I think I tried to point that out at the
beginning. We will all have our time when the Office of Economic Development is
up to make the presentation and we can, for a lack of another term, drill down on
some questions. As I started in the beginning, I isolated this time because people
wanted to give testimony and the fact of the matter is had already committed to
Coco Palms and the legal department on all of the other agendas. We will be here
to prepare to Council to ask whatever questions they want of the project. I can
assure you.
Mr. Rapozo: I have a quick question, Mr. Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: I am just looking at your order of the day,
the 3:00 p.m. street drainage issue, are we expecting any?
Chair Furfaro: We are expecting Engineering.
Mr. Rapozo: Just from the County though? You are not
expecting anybody from off-island or whatever?
Chair Furfaro: No.
Mr. Rapozo: I guess I am not on the Public Work / Parks
& Recreation Committee, but if there is a way to just refer this to the Committee for
next week we can have the discussion there. I just feel for a lot of these people that
came from the North Shore and drove all of this way and then if we come back at
2:30 p.m. within two (2) or three (3) speakers, we will be back in another session.
So, I would just offer that suggestion that we refer that and utilize that time to
come back to this issue.
Chair Furfaro: Well, I tell you how I plan to do that. I have
already spoken to the people that are encouraging the Public Works Department to
COUNCIL MEETING 47 MARCH 27, 2014
work on that drainage, they are entitled to give some testimony, but if the Council
chooses to immediately to refer that item to a future Public Works / Parks &
Recreation piece, well that can happen as long as those people get an opportunity
for something that was on the agenda. I am more than flexible and I am trying to
be as fair as I can, but we are pinched between the budget starting tomorrow and
Money Bills that need to be on the agenda for the purpose of getting into the budget
discussion. Yes?
Ms. Yukimura: It may be that those people who want to
testify on the Public Works issue might be willing to come back next week in
Committee.
Chair Furfaro: Again, that is what I just said.
Ms. Yukimura: Oh, okay.
Chair Furfaro: I have spoken to them. I think as long as I
know someone here can refer that item to a Committee and they can talk, I think
they would be satisfied with that. Then we can...
Ms. Yukimura: Oh, at the Committee.
Chair Furfaro: So, at the same time, I do not want to sound
like I am an advocate for one particular item on the agenda. Mr. Kagawa.
Mr. Kagawa: Yes. Since we are in a crunch period as far
as trying to make sure that the people showed up at least hear the final decision, I
am willing to actually call for the question if members feel like we can do that. I
think we have all been briefed individually. We all basically are in support of
approval. We feel that the County has had enough time in trying to work it out, but
it appears that in this special, unique case, that the community perhaps is the
stronger option as far as getting some progress done. I am willing to state my
approval now if the Committee feels that way. We can have our other questions
answered at a later update as they move along the process. I am willing to give my
approval. I do not see the County being a better option in taking this issue by itself.
Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Members, is there any more discussion on
that subject? Mr. Bynum and then Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Bynum: I will try to be as brief as I can. I want to
share what Councilmember Hooser was saying, that I know this issue really well I
worked for the Baptiste Administration when they moved to acquire this land.
These folks in the audience are my mentors. I had the wonderful opportunity to
work directly in the Kilauea community quite extensively for a number of years. I
am ready to vote on this. I am supporting it. Our good Department under George,
this collaborative effort. I could go into all of the munition details, which we will
because this is just the beginning, right? We will do all of that. Kilauea is a
wonderful community. They are here in force. We have a strong Economic
Development Director who is encouraging us to move in this direction. I am
prepared.
Chair Furfaro: Was that you that wanted to speak again,
Mr. Rapozo?
COUNCIL MEETING 48 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Rapozo: Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. I would agree
with Mr. Kagawa, that nothing that is going to be said later today is going to
change my mind. I know Mr. Sproat, I believe it was Mr. Sproat that said earlier
that the delays really was not because of the County. It was because of the
developer, but certificates of occupancy were issued by the County. That is where
we screwed up. When we issued the certificates to go ahead and complete your
development without the conditions being met, that is the County's fault not the
farmer's fault. That was out fault. Then someone else said, I believe it was
Mr. Yadao, about the promise. Now we have to deliver on the promise and that is
the opportunity. I know JoAnn talked about the requirement to ask a lot of
questions and over the years she has asked a lot of questions, but maybe we are just
asking the wrong people. Maybe we asked the wrong questions. That is why thirty
(30) years later, we are still here. What hit me was when Adam said we lost a...I
think it was Adam that said, we lost a generation. That hit me today I never
thought of that, but that is true. Now we put the ball in the farmer's court. I have
the ultimate trust that the right will be done. So, I am prepared to vote right now.
Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Hooser.
Mr. Hooser: I am prepared to vote right now also, Chair.
Chair Furfaro: I will keep my comments to the point until
somebody actually makes a motion because I want to point a few things.
Mr. Kagawa moved to approve C 2014-96, seconded by Mr. Hooser.
Chair Furfaro: There was a motion made and a second. Is
that correct earlier? It was at the start? Any further discussion? JoAnn.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you. This is such a difficult thing for
me to do. I want to state up front that I am going to be voting for this, but I want
you to know why I am asking the questions. I mean, I worked with the Kilauea
Agricultural Association for many, many years. I represented David and Linda as a
legal aid attorney against the agricultural subdivision of land. We fought the
proposals for a convention center right about Kauapea Beach. We also fought
against a proposal for a golf course and condominium over there. We worked. We
tried to have Kilauea Agronomics donate a one hundred (100) acre agricultural park
for Kilauea. I married a farmer who was part of the Kilauea Agricultural
Association who worked for many years with Johnny Akana. I was involved with
this Crater Hill effort, so I yearned to see and agricultural park in Kilauea for
many, many years. I have personally worked on this and also actually worked to
expand the Kilauea National Wildlife Refuge and add the Crater Hill piece to it and
Mokule`ia Point, which was going to be a Country estate for a nuclear physicist. We
went through all of this. I also saw young farmers in Moloa`a, Papaya Coop with all
of their energy and passion wanting to succeed in farming and accepted eighty
thousand dollars ($80,000) from the State and they no longer exist. I was the one
who actually put money in for an island-wide agricultural park system so that we
could have agricultural lands available to farmers throughout the island.
The reason that I am asking these questions is because I know that you have
to have answers to them in order to succeed. When we gave the Stewardship
Agreement to Kaneiolouma Archeological Park, Rupert Rowe and his people when
they came before us, they were able to answer our questions, which I believe, was a
COUNCIL MEETING 49 MARCH 27, 2014
part of our job as stewards of this public land to ask and have answers to. So, that
is why I am asking these questions. I also hear the commitment and the passion in
the community to work on this. I also have real hope in this new generation that is
stepping up to the plate. So, I am going to support that. I want to support that, but
I have a lot of concerns and I am going to put my trust in all of you that you will
take this responsibility very seriously. I have questions about governance because I
have seen organizations fall apart, not being able to make the decisions, and then
become fractionalized and start fighting each other. So, those ground rules, how we
are going to operate together, a business plan, and a financial plan. I do not believe
they are unnecessarily picky questions to ask. In fact, if you want to accomplish
what you want to accomplish, you will be asking these questions to yourselves. I
mean this as a celebration. This is to a certain extent, a consummation of dreams
for many years, but it not really a consummation. It is going to take so much hard
work, cooperation, and effort...
JADE K. FOUNTAIN-TANIGAWA, Deputy County Clerk: Five (5)
minutes.
Ms. Yukimura: I am going to vote for this in faith that you
will all rise to the occasion and that we will actually have a very joyous celebration
when the agricultural park is going to be dedicated. You are going to be the
developers. This is a developer's job. You are not only going to be the farmers, you
are going to have to figure out...
Chair Furfaro: JoAnn, they waved me. That was your five
(5) minutes for discussion.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you. I look forward to the celebration
when the agricultural park will be developed, blessed, and that we will see farmers
growing food for our people for many, many years.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you, JoAnn. Before I go any further,
and I want to share this. This is a precedence that I personally as the Chairman
have to take responsibility for before we go any further because these are our Rules
and we are guided by Rules and they are very old Rules. There are three (3) people
who have signed up, but who have not been able to speak. May I ask if they are
willing to waive their signup to speak? Could I see the hands? There is one (1),
there is two (2), and there is somebody that signed up. Is there anybody who
actually, I have their name here and wants to speak? Okay. Thank you.
The following members of the public withdrew their opportunity to provide
testimony:
• L'Hote Yoshito
• Josephine Bonaparte
• Alvin Castelo
Chair Furfaro: I am sorry. Those are the Rules and enter
that into the record. I will come back to you, Mr. Kagawa.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you. Again, I want to thank
Councilmembers for having the decision made now and to let the community know
that we are behind you one hundred percent (100%) even through tough times that
may come up. I think our community wants to see agriculture improved and this is
COUNCIL MEETING 50 MARCH 27, 2014
a perfect opportunity to be a model for Kaua`i. I not only see this happening at
Kilauea. If we can make this happen in Kilauea, we can do it on the West Side and
we can diversify, grow some food for our residents, and help some people with new
careers that are good for the island. So, I see this also as a celebration. I must
honestly say that I did not know that the agricultural park was by my favorite
fishing spot. Rock Quarry, is where I love to go and fish. I live on the West Side all
my life, but I go where there is fish and Rock Quarry was pretty good to me. I was
kind of dismayed when I saw all of the development down there, seeing those nice
beautiful homes. I must say, really nice homes, but I kind of thought that would
those homes at some point block off our access down to that favorite fishing spot,
not only for me. I see a lot of lead and what have you on the rocks. It is a lot of
people's fishing spot. I am glad to see that with that development, at least we might
have something good there for the people of Kilauea and Kaua`i. I will be casting a
vote for support. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Chock.
Mr. Chock: I will be as quick as possible. I know time is
running out and everybody is taking their time. My first informal meeting here at
Council was to sit in the agricultural park discussion and when they ended I said,
"Mr. Costa, what can we do to make sure this ends in the community's hands? It
has to go there. We have been waiting too long for this to occur." Uncle Walter
from Moloka`i would said that Moloka`i is aina momona. Well, I believe that Kaua`i
is the gatekeeper of the privilege because of the water resource that we have and it
is just a matter of management, which brings me to where Councilmember
Yukimura's concerns are which, I think is a valid concern and we need to continue
to work together at these benchmarks and just keep us in the loop in the
communication of this so that we can make sure that this is a thriving success.
When it comes down to it, it is about trust and I am willing to cast my vote in terms
of that trust. Mahalo.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: This sea cliff subdivision was a watershed for
Kaua`i in so many ways and not just this agricultural park, but also about
agricultural subdivisions and corporate money, who wants to come here, how much
strength we have as a community, and how sophisticated we are to fight back those
things. Boy, I could go on and on about just this one (1) subdivision. What I want
to focus on is Aunty Lynn, David, Rodney, and Mr. Pacheko who have been mentors
to me about how you act in a community, how you work together in a community,
and I wanted to thank all of you. I agree with Councilmember Chock and JoAnn, as
always is looking at all of the issues and details and that is very valuable, but it is
time for us to act. There has been many, many talks and there is not a perfect plan
here, there is not a perfect solution, but there is a community collaborative effort
with the County and when we do that well, that is when our community is at our
best. So, good luck and thank you very much.
Chair Furfaro: May I speak now? First of all, I want to say
that it is obvious that everyone that is here feels that this park is beneficial for all,
but I want to let you know as the elected Administrator of the Council, I have to be
cognizant of the fact that this is a very different precedent than what we are used
to. To vote on a procedural item without completing all of the particular pieces and
therefore, I had to ask those that signed up if they were willing to waive their right
to speak, whatever testimony they give pro or not. We have that documented in the
COUNCIL MEETING 51 MARCH 27, 2014
record. I used to feel that you surround yourself with really good people, then you
give them the authority and the autonomy to do their job, and they will do a good
one. I believe that this is true of this community and this park. I also have to tell
you, I am looking for an acknowledgment from the legal counsel for the County and
the Economic Director to know, I will support this today, but knowing in six (6)
months I am going to have an update and knowing in six (6) months, we are going
to actually have something documented that tells us the question I asked Keone.
How often will you be giving us an update? We have not concluded that. I want to
make sure we understand. As the Administrator of the Council, and three (3) times
elected by the whole majority to be the leader, I want to make sure we understand
Economic Development and the County Attorney's Office, I am looking for some
amendment in six (6) months that tells us how the reporting system is to the
Council. Could I have you come up Mauna Kea for that?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
MAUNA KEA TRASK, Second Deputy County Attorney: Aloha Chair.
For the record, Second Deputy County Attorney, Mauna Kea Trask.
Chair Furfaro: Mauna Kea, first I want to tell you, all of us
have seen the document and George's presentation. So, we understand the guts and
so on. The piece that is missing is some understanding about updates.
Mr. Trask: Yes, Chair...
Chair Furfaro: How do we fix that?
Mr. Trask: Under the terms of the Stewardship
Agreement as you are aware, if I can just have a second to find it. This is on page 5,
Stewards' responsibilities, paragraph four. "The Stewards shall keep a
logbook/journal of all activities conducted at the site to be available upon request."
Chair Furfaro: That satisfies me. "Upon request."
Mr. Trask: I just wanted to add one (1) more thing. On
page 8 under Checks to Ensure Proper Stewardship. "OED, or their representative,
will make two (2) field checks per year to see that proper stewardship is being
done," et cetera. So, we can provide the Council copies of the results of those
inspections at that time.
Chair Furfaro: Okay, do not dig more than that. That is my
only question, okay?
Mr. Trask: You got it.
Chair Furfaro: I do not want to go on and start looking at all
of the legal parts because I am getting hungry and I am diabetic. JoAnn.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes. I want to ask that there also be
developed an addendum or something that lays out the benchmarks for
performance, clearing of the lot, development of an operations plan, and a financials
plan.
Chair Furfaro: Is that understood Mauna Kea?
COUNCIL MEETING 52 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Trask: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much for coming up.
Mr. Trask: Thank you.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceed
as follows:
Chair Furfaro: On that note, I hope everybody understands
at the end of the day, administratively, I am the point person for this body. So, I am
prepared now to vote. We will do a roll call vote if we may. Roll call, please.
The motion to approve C 2014-96 was then put, and carried by the following
vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Bynum, Chock, Hooser, Kagawa,
Rapozo, Yukimura, Furfaro TOTAL— 7,
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Seven (7) ayes.
Chair Furfaro: 7:0. Thank you very much. May I now ask
others if you could leave quietly because I have to call Mauna Kea back up for the
next item and from a housekeeping standpoint, you folks, I am going to be recused
from the next item, so make sure you keep it within one (1) hour so we can have a
lunch break and we push everything back thirty (30) minutes. Thank you everyone.
Mauna Kea, if you can come up. Tim, we are continuing with business. Someone
from the County Attorney's Office was coming up? Mr. Hall. For the record, please
note that I have recused myself.
(Council Chair Furfaro was noted as recused for ES-712 and ES-713.)
Council Chair Furfaro relinquished chairmanship to Mr. Chock.
Mr. Chock: For the record, County Attorney
Stephen Hall is here to introduce the Executive Session.
There being no objections ES-712 and ES-713 were taken out of order.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
STEPHEN F. HALL, Deputy County Attorney: Yes, good afternoon.
Stephen Hall, Office of the County Attorney. I have items 1 and 2 on the Executive
Session list.
EXECUTIVE SESSIONS:
ES-712 Pursuant to Hawai`i Revised Statutes (HRS) Sections 92-4,
92-5(a)(4), and (8) and Kaua`i County Charter Section 3.07(E), the Office of the
COUNCIL MEETING 53 MARCH 27, 2014
County Attorney, requests an Executive Session with the Council, to provide the
Council with a briefing and for settlement authority as it relates to the
investigation of personnel matters involving the Office of the County Auditor, and
related matters (including Ernesto G. Pasion vs. County of Kaua`i, et al., Civil
No. 13-00676 ACK RLP (U.S. District Court)). This briefing and consultation
involves consideration of the powers, duties, privileges, immunities, and/or
liabilities of the Council and the County as they relate to this agenda item.
ES-713 Pursuant to Hawai`i Revised Statutes (HRS) Sections 92-4,
92-5(a)(4), and (8) and Kaua`i County Charter Section 3.07(E), the Office of the
County Attorney, requests an Executive Session with the Council, to provide the
Council with a briefing as it relates to the investigation of personnel matters
involving the Office of the County Auditor, and related matters (including
Ernesto G. Pasion vs. County of Kaua`i, et al., Civil No. 13-00676 ACK RLP
(U.S. District Court)). This briefing and consultation involves consideration of the
powers, duties, privileges, immunities, and/or liabilities of the Council and the
County as they relate to this agenda item.
Mr. Chock: Thank you.
Mr. Kagawa moved to convene in Executive Session for ES-712 and ES-713,
seconded by Ms. Yukimura.
Mr. Chock: Good. We have a motion to go into Executive
Session. Councilmembers, any questions of County Attorney, Stephen Hall? If not,
we will call for public testimony. Do we have anyone on the list?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: We now have two (2) people who registered
to speak. The first speaker is Sherwood Hara, followed by Glenn Mickens.
Mr. Chock: So, we have two (2) speakers. I intend to
follow the same track and follow suit with Council Chair because of the intense
schedule. So, we will allow for three (3) each speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Vice Chair Chock, Mr. Hara is not present.
So, we could just jump to Glenn Mickens.
Mr. Chock: Okay. Mr. Mickens, you are the first
speaker.
Mr. Mickens: Thank you, Mason. For the record, Glenn
Mickens. I am going to give you a little historical record of the way I believe this
thing has played out along with the Executive Sessions for you folks and the
camera. This Council has held twenty-four (24) Executive Sessions regarding our
Auditor. Ernie Pasion's audit of fuel costs consumptions and related matters.
Three (3) more on today's agenda will bring this total to an unprecedented
twenty-seven (27). There is something very, very wrong with our system when
those in power must go behind closed doors to decide a matter that should never
have been started in the first place. From the beginning of this convoluted fiasco,
seven (7) Councilmembers unanimously hired Ernie Pasion to be to be our very first
County Auditor, a position mandated by our Charter. His qualifications were
impeccable and superior to those of the other two (2) finalists candidates vying for
the job. One of them was even a Certified Public Accountant (CPA) that worked for
the Security Exchange Commission (SEC). Mr. Pasion put together a group of
COUNCIL MEETING 54 MARCH 27, 2014
people who successfully did seven (7) audits and did them so efficiently that the
results of all but one (1) was agreed to but the auditees. Ernie does all of this audits
with his Yellow Book as his guideline, guidelines followed by all government
auditors. He has fought to stay completely neutral in all of this audits and whatever
failure, fault, or positive is uncovered, it is done to make better the system more
efficient. Regretfully, or should I say gratefully his fuel cost consumption audit
uncovered an irregularity and the alleged misuse of a County gas card by our
Mayor. Once this audit came to light, our Auditor's budget was cut by an
astounding thirty-two percent (32%), three (3) times that of any other budget.
(Mr. Hooser was noted as not present.)
Mr. Mickens: This huge reduction was severe enough to
cripple the motive (MO) by which our Auditor had been doing his job. It does not
take a legal person to connect the dots to figure out that retribution had taken place
as payback for what the audit had uncovered. It is irresponsible that any
consequence of the gas (inaudible) arising from the Fuel Audit should fall on the
Auditor who was merely performing his authorized function. Instead, we should
look to the Mayor and the Council to perform their duties and enforce the clearly
applicable provisions of the law. This whole sorted gas (inaudible) mess has the
potential in our Hawai`i Revised Statutes (HRS) 78-9 to remove our Mayor from
office, but again, Mr. Pasion did not orchestrate what is happening as his contractor
did his job and now the chips must fall where they may. How terribly regrettable
that Mr. Pasion must now be in a legal battle for his job and financial well-being
when he did his job, a job that was allotted by the Association of Local Government
Auditors. May justice prevail and may Ernie continue on...
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Three (3) minutes.
(Mr. Hooser was noted as present.)
Mr. Chock: Three (3) minutes there, Mr. Mickens.
Mr. Mickens: ...untold money. I am...
Mr. Chock: Can you wrap it up?
Mr. Mickens: Yes.
Mr. Chock: Thank you.
Mr. Mickens: And may we get a County manager who can
keep this debacle from ever happening again. The cost for this issue alone went in
at hundreds of thousands of dollars. Thank you, Mason.
Mr. Chock: Thank you very much. Anyone else?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: We do not have any...
Mr. Chock: No one else schedule?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Yes. No one else registered.
COUNCIL MEETING 55 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Chock: Anyone else would like to comment on this?
Shaylene. You have three (3) minutes as well.
SHAYLENE ISERI: For clarification, I did sign up for C 2014-93
and it appears that this is the concurrent Executive Session relative to that item. If
you are going to be discussing motions and fees, then this would be the opportune
time for me to talk.
Mr. Chock: Can you repeat which one you said you
wanted to...
Ms. Iseri: C 2014-93.
Mr. Chock: Oh, okay.
Ms. Iseri: I do not see a concurrent Executive Session
for the request for expenditures of the Special Counsel fees, but it appears that this
would be the concurrent item that you will be discussing the investigation as it
relates to this Federal case.
Mr. Rapozo: That is the one. That is the one, Shay.
Ms. Iseri: So it is?
Mr. Chock: Do you want to speak on this one? I just
wanted to confirm with the Clerk.
Mr. Rapozo: ES-713 and C 2014-93 are concurrent.
Ms. Iseri: Okay. It has different items. One speaks
about the Special Counsel fee of sixty-five thousand dollars ($65,000) and that is
noticeably absent from the ES-713 item, but it is on the same item? Alright. So, if I
could start now.
Mr. Chock: Yes.
Ms. Iseri: Okay. Good morning I think or it may
afternoon at this point. I, Shaylene Iseri, speaking on behalf of myself and the
people of Kaua`i, I would state that I vehemently object to any authorization to
expend any type of fund in this Federal case involving Pasion versus County of
Kaua`i. This is the Federal case. As you recall at the last couple of weeks that I had
testified, the County as represented by Mr. Sato as well as the County Attorney,
Mr. Castillo, representing Chair Furfaro, they were issued sanctions for filing a
frivolous motion for trying to remove this case from the State Court to the Federal
Court. The only cases that are pending here is the Federal Court case. Therefore,
all of the expenses relate to the County filing a frivolous motion and incurring costs
where the Judge found that it was totally unreasonable for these attorneys because
they ignored binding Supreme Court and Ninth Circuit Court precedent, they were
presented with multiple opportunities to review the controlling case law, and to
stipulate to the plaintiffs request to keep it in State Court. Despite that, the
defendant's actions resulted in dealing the timely litigation of this case in the
proper forum as well as increase costs to the plaintiff and the Court. What I
understand from looking at the Federal Court docket is that the plaintiff submitted
attorney's fees of twelve thousand five hundred twenty-five dollars ($12,525) as a
COUNCIL MEETING 56 MARCH 27, 2014
result of their incompetence in filing a frivolous motion in Federal Court. I believe
that the taxpayers should not bear the burden of paying these costs that were
incurred by two (2) attorneys who totally ignored controlling case law. So, this
twelve thousand dollars ($12,000) if that is the case, I believe Mr. Bennett had put
in for hours of forty-nine point seven (49.7) hours in preparing this motion that the
Court found that was totally frivolous. There is now, another motion in opposition
to the filing of the fees that had occurred on March 24th. So, now we are incurring
more fees by objecting to the fee schedules that was provided by the plaintiffs
attorneys of which the Court ordered the County Attorneys to pay. It appears it is
not clear from that motion what the arguments are except that Mr. Bennett should
be only charged four hundred dollars ($400) an hour, but he is asking for four
hundred fifty dollars ($450) and hour, and for his Legal Assistant is two hundred
thirty dollars ($230) that they are asking. The County is saying, "No, we should pay
only one hundred forty-five dollars ($145) to one hundred sixty-five dollars ($165).
It seems like paying all these pennies that we are talking about and we are
expending just on the motion, twelve thousand dollars ($12,000) and now we are
asking for sixty-five thousand dollars ($65,000) for what when we should not have
even been in Federal Court? It was very clear form the Court's indication that all of
the claims arose in State Court. There was absolutely no reference to Federal law
and yet the County...
(Mr. Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Three (3) minutes.
Ms. Iseri: ...still went ahead...
Mr. Chock: Three (3) minutes, right?
Ms. Iseri: ...and filed this frivolous motion. So, again, I
object to any fees being paid on any Federal claims, not the fees paid to Special
Counsel nor any fees that we have to pay for the plaintiffs. That cost should be
incurred by the incompetent and arrogance of the people that created the litigation,
which is the County Attorney and Mr. Sato.
Mr. Chock: Thank you. Anyone else would like to speak
on this item at this time? Seeing none...
Mr. Rapozo: I have a question.
Mr. Chock: Oh, you have a question?
Mr. Rapozo: No, for the County Attorney actually.
Mr. Chock: County Attorney?
Mr. Rapozo: For either Mr. Sato or...
Mr. Chock: I do not see Mr. Sato.
Mr. Rapozo: Or anyone.
Mr. Hall: Good afternoon again. Stephen Hall, Deputy
County Attorney.
COUNCIL MEETING 57 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you.
Mr. Rapozo: I do remember reading the ruling from the
Court that said that the case should not be in Federal Court, that in fact, it needs to
go back to State Court.
(Mr. Kagawa was noted as present.)
Mr. Hall: Correct.
Mr. Rapozo: My question is, is Civil No. 13-00676, is that
still a pending case?
Mr. Hall: Yes. The Federal Magistrate Judge retained
jurisdiction solely for the discussion on fees and then it will be returning to State
Court.
Mr. Rapozo: So, this request, and the only reason I bring
this up is just for the legality of the posting. I want to make sure we posted
properly.
Mr. Hall: Yes.
Mr. Rapozo: So, on C 2014-93 which according to my
notes on the agenda, is the companion to ES-713. The sixty-five thousand dollars
($65,000) is just legal fees in that Federal motion? Is that what...
Mr. Hall: No, well...okay. Yes, the two (2) posts
correlate. So, you are correct in that. The sixty-five thousand dollars ($65,000) that
we are requesting are not pertaining specifically to that motion. We can discuss
this in more detail. I have got some breakdowns for you all that...
Mr. Rapozo: I just want to make sure that the posting is
valid, that because it references a Federal Court case, which I read...
Mr. Hall: Right, technically it is still in Federal Court
until that issue of fees on the motion that Ms. Iseri was just discussing, until that is
resolved, it will be in Federal Court. Once that is resolved, it will come back to
State Court and then there will be a different case number associated.
Mr. Rapozo: But the original case was not filed in State
Court?
Mr. Hall: The original case was filed in State Court by
the plaintiff.
Mr. Rapozo: And that case, what is the status of that
case?
Mr. Hall: That case is currently in Federal Court.
Mr. Rapozo: So, it does not stay at State Court?
Mr. Hall: No.
COUNCIL MEETING 58 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Rapozo: I guess the motion was made to transfer it to
Federal Court?
Mr. Hall: It transfers to Federal Court, exactly, and
then when the appropriate order is given, it will transfer back to State Court.
Mr. Rapozo: And that has not been given yet?
Mr. Hall: Correct.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Chock: Any more questions? Hearing none, we have
a motion to move into Executive Session. Roll call for that. Oh, you have
something? Ken. We have one (1) more speaker.
KEN TAYLOR: Chair and members of the Council, my name
is Ken Taylor. First of all, I am very frustrated by this whole process because you
folks have over the last year have created some real problems for the County
taxpayers because of all of this frivolous activity in reference to the Auditor. The
Auditor was put in place to do a job. He has done quite a job. To this date, very
little of this information has been on the agenda for discussion. You folks sit here
as the purse string holders for the County. The documents that have been produced
by the Auditor was to show where improvements could be made and money saved in
the operations of the County. For whatever reason, I do not know, you have elected
not to have these items on the agenda for full discussion and recommendations to
take these matters forward and save the taxpayers money. Now, I see the Mayor
looking at raises four million dollars ($4,000,000) in salaries and looking at other
increases in rates, and yet, we have not even taken the opportunity to save where
we have the opportunity to do so. That is very disturbing. Yesterday I sent an
article out that was in reference to a Mayor's problem back on the East Coast and
the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) went in and did an investigation and the
Mayor has resigned. I am asking, will it take the FBI to solve Kaua`i's Mayor's
problem with HRS 78-9? Again, an issue that you have an obligation to the
community to deal with. You have not even put it on the agenda for discussion and
I am very disturbed. Will we get free National news of bringing Kaua`i's ethical and
moral issues to the world? Will it not be better for Mayor Carvalho to admit that he
made a mistake take the high road, and do what HRS 78-9 requires and step down
or will you folks step up to the plate and do what you are supposed to do?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Three (3) minutes.
Mr. Chock: Three (3) minutes, Ken.
Mr. Taylor: Investigate this issue as it is written.
County Charter 3.17 gives you the right to perform investigations. By not doing
this, you are showing that your ethical and moral compass is not in good working
order and maybe that you are not fit to hold office. When you took the oath of office
you swore to uphold the United States Constitution...
Mr. Chock: Can you summarize it please, Mr. Taylor?
Mahalo.
COUNCIL MEETING 59 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Taylor: I will be finished here in a second. You took
the oath of office to uphold the United States Constitution, the State Constitution,
and the County Charter. These allegations and behaviors are inexcusable and
cannot be tolerated. So, I hope in the near future these documents are put on the
agenda for the full discussion and the recommendation and that you move forward
with an investigation into HRS 78-9. Thank you.
Mr. Chock: Thank you. Do you have a question Tim, for
Ken?
Mr. Bynum: Thank you for your testimony, Ken. I do not
understand your contention that no action has been taken on the audits. I am
aware of dozens of responses to the audits there were responded where the County
has made changes. I am curious, where your contention is that we have not
adopted any audit recommendations since the Auditor has been in here?
Mr. Taylor: I guess if you could show me on the agendas
from the past where each of these items have been agenized, I would appreciate it.
Mr. Bynum: Okay. Then, one (1) other question. This
matter that is before us today, do you know how this arrived on the Council's
agenda? How did this come to be an agenda item, do you know?
Mr. Taylor: I am not privileged to that information, no.
Mr. Bynum: Okay. No one on this Council initiated any
agenda items related to the Auditor. We are responding to personnel matters. We
are doing our responsibility as Councilmembers. So, I just wanted to make that
point.
Mr. Chock: No question then?
Mr. Bynum: Well, I asked a question and he did not
answer.
Mr. Chock: Thank you. Anyone else would like to speak?
Of course, Mr. Rosa, please come up.
Mr. Rosa: Members of the Council, good afternoon. For
the record, Joe Rosa. In a matter of four (4) days, this thing has been on this
agenda for a year and after twenty-four (24) Executive Sessions still no decision.
The Auditor went through a suspension without any just cause, it was noted in the
papers and everything else, and yet, there is no decision by this body. You people
are people with integrity and this all came about through the false information you
got from the person that should be advising the Council. It is high time that when
people cannot do the work and give you the right information, start to cause all of
this kind of trouble, and a lot of time not here, the Chair says he hears a lot of
hearsay, but no evidence. So, it starts from within the organization, the Committee
of this whole County, from the top to the Council. So, it is high time that you people
get your information straight so that this kind of things do not get caused, all of
these liabilities. It is high time. Some of these audits have been done and I just
heard it says that they did improvements, but I still hear about the gas cards
coming out by audits yet. So, has it been corrected? No. Why? These audits are
not being made public and has not been thought out here by the Council itself so
COUNCIL MEETING 60 MARCH 27, 2014
that it can be made known because it is a public record and it had to be printed with
the okay from the body. So, after the body okayed the audits, it was printed in the
booklet forms hat Mr. Ken Taylor was showing you people. So, it is a legal
document. So, why not throw it out here in the Council and make it known to the
public and let them see where all the faults are, and those people responsible for it,
well, if they have to say goodbye, they will have to say goodbye and step out
gracefully when they have the chance to step out if there are irregularities. The
way it seems, there is. If not, it would not be this kind of a problem that has been
hanging on for nearly a year. So, with that...
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Three (3) minutes.
Mr. Rosa: I leave you with that thought. Thank you.
Mr. Chock: Anyone else would like to speak on the
Executive Session requests?
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Mr. Chock: We have a motion on the table. We are going
to go to roll call for this item.
The motion to convene in Executive Session for ES-712 was then put, and
carried by the following vote:
FOR EXECUTIVE SESSION: Bynum, Chock, Hooser, Kagawa
Rapozo, Yukimura TOTAL— 6,
AGAINST EXECUTIVE SESSION: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: Furfaro TOTAL— 1.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: 6:0 and one (1) recused.
The motion to convene in Executive Session for ES-713 was then put, and
carried by the following vote:
FOR EXECUTIVE SESSION: Bynum, Chock, Hooser, Kagawa
Rapozo, Yukimura TOTAL— 6,
AGAINST EXECUTIVE SESSION: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: Furfaro TOTAL— 1.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Six (6) and one (1) recused.
Mr. Chock: Good. So, we will take a quick break and
come back in three (3) minutes. Is that okay, to start up in three (3) minutes?
Then, I know we are right on lunch here, so we may be coming back to Executive
Session or the other option is that we rotate Councilmembers for lunch, is what I
was told. So, we will make that decision in there, but we may not be coming back
directly on time, is my understanding. Do you have a question?
Mr. Kagawa: Well, I think by law we need to provide staff
with time to go and eat. So, my recommendation is that we try to get done by
COUNCIL MEETING 61 MARCH 27, 2014
1:00 p.m. and if we cannot, maybe we perhaps should just take the break and go
straight back into Executive Session if that is okay with you folks.
Mr. Chock: That is good. Let us see what we can get
done.
There being no objections, the Council recessed at 12:34 p.m.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order at 3:02 p.m.,
and proceeded as follows:
(Chair Furfaro was noted as recused from C 2014-93.)
Mr. Chock: Can you read that item that we need to move
on?
There being no objections, C 2014-93 was taken out of order.
COMMUNICATIONS:
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: This is on page 4.
C 2014-93 Communication (03/14/2014) from the County Attorney,
requesting authorization to expend funds up to $65,000 for Special Counsel's
continued services to advise and represent the County Council in matters relating
to the investigation of personnel matters involving the County Auditor's Office, and
related matters (including Ernesto G. Pasion vs. County of Kauai, et al., Civil
No. 13-00676 ACK RLP (U.S. District Court)): Ms. Yukimura moved to approve
C 2014-93, seconded by Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Chock: Motion and a second. Anyone would like to
speak on this item? Seeing none...no?
The motion to approve C 2014-93 was then put, and carried by a vote of
6:0:0:1 (Council Chair Furfaro was recused).
Mr. Chock: Is there another item we need approve as
well?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: No, that is it. The Chair will be returning.
Mr. Chock: Okay. I know Chair Furfaro wants to be a
part of this and hear the update and I think someone is calling him right now, but
you folks can come up please and get ready for this update. Thank you folks for
being here. Let us move to whatever we can. We will continue to move through,
but you can sit there.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: This is on page 4.
C 2014-88 Communication (03/04/2014) from the Executive on
Transportation, requesting Council approval to amend the amount authorized to
receive, indemnify, and expend the Federal Fiscal Year 2013 Federal Transit
Administration (FTA) Section 5339 Annual Apportionment provided to the County
of Kaua`i to support public transit capital expenses, by increasing the amount by
COUNCIL MEETING 62 MARCH 27, 2014
$15,833, for a total grant award of $415,833: Ms. Yukimura moved to approve
C 2014-88, seconded by Mr. Kagawa.
Mr. Chock: I do not see Celia here for any questions.
Any discussion on this?
The motion to approve C 2014-88 was then put, and unanimously carried.
Mr. Chock: We can fit another one in.
C 2014-89 Communication (03/05/2014) from Council Chair Furfaro,
requesting the presence of the County Engineer, to provide an update on the Ala
Kalanikaumaka Street off-site drainage area and the efforts of the Department of
Public Works to address the reported problems that occur following heavy rain.
Ms. Yukimura: Move to defer, right?
Mr. Chock: I believe there is a motion to defer.
Mr. Kagawa: No refer.
Ms. Yukimura: Refer to Committee.
Mr. Rapozo: Mr. Chair?
Mr. Chock: Please.
Mr. Rapozo: We have members of the public here that
came to testify on that. So, I am not sure if you wanted to take that now.
Mr. Chock: Chair is on his way up now and since they
are here, why do we not get that done too.
Mr. Kagawa: I think Coco Palms was scheduled before. I
mean, I do not want to tell anybody to wait, but Coco Palms was at 1:30 p.m. and
Ala Kalanikaumaka Street is 3:00 p.m.
Mr. Chock: Okay, we will take Coco Palms first then.
We will come back to it. Thank you.
C 2014-90 Communication (03/10/2014) from the Fire Chief, requesting
Council approval to receive and expend the recurring Volunteer Fire Assistance
Program Grant No. 13-DG-11052012-102 in the amount of$50,000, for training and
acquisition of equipment and materials: Mr. Kagawa moved to approve C 2014-90,
seconded by Ms. Yukimura.
Mr. Chock: Would anyone like to speak on this item for
the Fire Department?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one to provide testimony at this time, the meeting was called
back to order, and proceeded as follows:
COUNCIL MEETING 63 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Chock: Any discussion Councilmembers?
The motion to approve C 2014-90 was then put, and unanimously carried.
Mr. Chock: Next one.
C 2014-91 Communication (03/11/2014) from the Director of Finance,
transmitting for Council information, the Second Quarter Estimate of Revenues and
Expenditures Report (Periods 4-6) for the Fiscal Year 2013-2014: Mr. Rapozo moved
to receive C 2014-91 for the record, seconded by Ms. Yukimura.
Mr. Chock: Motion to receive for the record here on the
table. Anyone would like to speak on this item?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one to provide testimony at this time, the meeting was called
back to order, and proceeded as follows:
Mr. Chock: Any discussion Councilmembers?
The motion to receive C 2014-91 for the record was then put, and
unanimously carried.
(Council Chair Furfaro was noted as present.)
Mr. Chock: That ends C 2014-91. Chair Furfaro is back in
the room. Welcome back, and we have Coco Palms here for us
Mr. Chock returned Chairmanship to Council Chair Furfaro.
C 2014-87 Communication (02/03/2014) from Council Chair Furfaro,
requesting the presence of Michael J. Belles, Esq., to provide the Council with the
first quarterly progress report relating to the rebuilding of the Coco Palms Hotel by
Coco Palms Hui, LLC: Mr. Kagawa moved to receive C 2014-87 for the record,
seconded by Mr. Rapozo.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Gentlemen, thank you very for being here. In this communication and put it on the posting, I had given
basically four (4) questions that I wanted to make sure that we covered today after
you gave us kind of and update on how you have progressed so far.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Chair Furfaro: I will let you folks go ahead and share with
us what you can at this time. So, you have the floor Mike.
MICHAEL BELLES: Good afternoon Mr. Chairman and members
of the County Council. For the record, my name is Michael Belles representing Coco
Palms Hui, LLC. Sitting to my immediate right is Dirk Soma. He is the Head, I
will call him our leader of our Culture Advisory Committee for Coco Palms. Sitting
to his right is Tyler Greene, one of the principals of Coco Palms Hui, LLC, and
sitting immediately behind Tyler is Chad Waters, the other principal of Coco Palms
Hui, LLC. I would like to begin by thank the Chair and the members of the Council
for affording us the time. We told you back in December that we would be more
COUNCIL MEETING 64 MARCH 27, 2014
than happy...I do not mean that facetiously, to appear before you and report to the
Council on a quarterly basis and give you a status report of what is happening with
Coco Palms. In addition to whatever rumors or hearsay are out in the community,
we can tell you at least what we know and understand and respond to any questions
the Council may have. What I would like to begin by describing very briefing and
then I will turn it over to my clients and to Dirk, is that we have had our
pre-consultation meetings with the County Attorney's Office and the Planning
Department to first identify what permits are likely to be applicable to this project.
At this point, we have identified minimally, an SMA Permit, Class IV Zoning
Permit, and a Project Development Use Permit would be required for this project.
We are still in the process of finalizing site plan, architectural design drawings, as
well as all of the other plans that are necessary before we can actually come up with
a final plan which would then be accompanied by a narrative, and then constitute a
permit application. Once we have that in draft form, we would like then to circle
back to have another meeting, at least one (1) more meeting, with the County
Attorney and with the Planning Department to make sure we are on agreement in
terms of what the entitlement or permitting path should be for the project. The
other permit that we are going to be applying for within the next couple weeks is
the After-The-Fact Dust Fence permit. Before, we have failed to do so, not
intentionally, just not knowing any better for the shoreline setback determination,
which is basically required for anything within five hundred (500) feet of the
shoreline as you all know. I literally mean anything. So, this is something that we
will be filing in the next couple of weeks. Beyond that, that is really the status of
the permitting and entitlements to-date and I would like to turn it now over to
Mr. Greene to give you an explanation of where we are in terms of working together
with the operations and covering other aspects that we had discussed previously.
This has been prompted by the last letter from the Chair of the Council to my
clients. So, with that, I will turn it over and at any point at the will of the Chair,
you could interrupt us or you can save the questions for the very end.
Chair Furfaro: The four (4) points that I had, point number
four was giving us kind of an update on the permit requirements which you have
done. I guess what I am looking for is how we are doing on the community
meetings, where do we stand on a brand selection for an operator, and do we have
any rough outline of a critical path, were my comments from the last time about
timeline from hopefully a very successful opening. I guess that is what I would like
to go over.
Mr. Belles: What I can describe very generally, and I
have to be general when we talk about timelines because just for the entitlement
and permitting process, we all know that any estimate you can give presumes a lot
of things. For example, (inaudible) intervention, support of the community, and
that our application is appropriate to the review of the Planning Department staff.
I would say that I would like to think that we would have the entitlements in place,
assuming we are looking at an SMA Class IV Zoning Permit and Project
Development Use Permit, within six (6) to nine (9) months. The dust fence and
shoreline setback determination should be a matter of one (1) to two (2) months.
Following that, it is a matter of finalizing, construction drawings, and getting
building permits approved, but we do not know what conditions will be imposed by
the Planning Commission, and as you all know, that can determine possible
changes or revisions to our site plan as well as the ultimate construction drawings
that would be necessitated by those conditions. So, we have to go through that
process first. This is going to be rather arbitrary, but I would like to think that by
the end of year or by first quarter of 2015, we might be able to turn over that
COUNCIL MEETING 65 MARCH 27, 2014
proverbial first spade of dirt and get the project under construction, but please do
not hold me to that because so much can happen in just the next six (6) months
which could alter that. It could accelerate, but at the same token it could take
longer than that. That is my best guess at this point and time knowing what I
know today. I will let Tyler deal with the issue of the operator and where we are in
terms of choosing a brand name and then actually, Dirk Soma is going to be critical
to the discussion of all the meetings that have been had thus far whit the
stakeholders, the community meetings. He has done, in my opinion, an incredible
job working with the community and I have not worked with him before. This is my
first opportunity. I have been very impressed at how well he has worked together
with the community and the stakeholders, how well he has functioned as a
moderator for many of the meetings together with the clients and he will cover a lot
of that. I do believe that you have all received an E-mail from the client which had
attached to it, basically a summary of the community activities and functions which
are a lot of the items that Mr. Soma will go into more detail on, give more responses
to any questions you may have, but that is the one (1) item we wanted to get to you
before today's meeting. I apologize it was yesterday on the holiday that it was sent
to you, but we did want to give you a little time and not just hit you with it at the
meeting today. So, hopefully you have had a chance to at least look at some of it. If
not, Dirk will give you a summary of it and again, be available to respond to any
questions you may have. So, if it satisfies the Council, what I would like to do is
first turn it over to Tyler Greene and let him go into the issues of operations and
branding, and then we can turn it over to Mr. Soma to deal with the community
relations.
Chair Furfaro: Well, thank you, Mike. There is a lot of
detail here. So, perhaps rather than dig into it, we will have some time to digest it
and really have a better understanding of an update at the next time around.
Mr. Belles: And what it may do, we will be back in three
(3) months at the pleasure of the Council, but as you indicated, we are always
accessible and we are available to meet with the Council or respond to anything in
writing that you may send to us. So, we will always be available and respond to the
Council to the best of our ability. With that, I will turn it over to Mr. Greene and let
him explain where we are in terms of operations and choosing a brand for the
project.
TYLER GREENE: Thank you. Good to see everyone here today.
Thank you for having us. In terms of the operation, we are what we would like to
call "first and goal." We, as you folks know, we have selected two (2) operators early
on to try and work with. Out of one (1) of those operators, we are working through a
management agreement right now. We feel we are probably about week away from
locking down that management agreement. There were a couple things that were
important for us within the scope of this operator and at the top of the list was
being able to infuse to the cultural program that has been put together by the Coco
Palms Cultural Advisory Committee, into the day-to-day operations of the resort.
So, things like the torch lighting ceremony and other cultural and historical aspects
that are so important to the resort itself. We want to make sure that any operator
that comes in does not just take those on and practices those things for the first
year or two (2) years or three (3) years. We want to make sure that it is carried on
in perpetuity and so that is kind of the finishing touches that we need to work
through on our management agreement to make sure that everything is in line
there. Then the second thing was we wanted to have some flexibility and freedom
on terms of choosing the General Manager of the property. We feel that in order to
COUNCIL MEETING 66 MARCH 27, 2014
infuse the type of feeling and program that Coco Palms is calling for, it is going to
start with the General Manager and it is going to infuse down into all of the
employees of the property. So, that is kind of the other thing that we are working
through right now in the operations side. So far the group that we are steering
towards is showing great flexibility and has shown just as much excitement as we
all have for those cultural and historical aspects of Coco Palms. So, we will
probably be able to go public with that information within the next couple of weeks
is what we are thinking. Any questions on the operations side?
Chair Furfaro: Let me just say if I may, some of the...well, I
believe the last time you shared with us it was narrowed down to two (2) brands.
Mr. Greene: Correct.
Chair Furfaro: But your concern was making sure that the
highlight could in fact be with the Coco Palms signature name being the headliner?
Mr. Greene: Correct.
Chair Furfaro: And the operator being secondary?
Mr. Greene: Correct.
Chair Furfaro: I just wanted to share with...well, for
example with the Moana Surfrider. It is not first acknowledged as a Weston Hotel.
Mr. Greene: Right.
Chair Furfaro: It is actually taken its first lady of Hawai`i's
name, the Moana Surfrider, operated by Weston Hotels.
Mr. Greene: Right.
Chair Furfaro: So, I assume that is one of the test of the
operators willing to put that hotel's name premiere and the operator secondary?
Mr. Greene: Absolutely. That was the first thing on the
list and so it will be what we would call soft brand where it will be Coco Palms by x.
So, the idea is that the operator is an afterthought and for any visitor coming to the
resort, they are focused on Coco Palms and not whoever the operator may be.
Chair Furfaro: Members, any questions along the line of
operator?
Mr. Greene: I would like to echo Mike's comments about
timing. We have kind of internally made it a goal hopefully to be open by
January 2017. If we can do it sooner, we would love to do it sooner, but so far
everything seems to kind of be lining up in that direction. So, that is...
Chair Furfaro: Did I hear 2017?
Mr. Greene: Correct. If we get permits within six (6) to
nine (9) months, it is looking like a two (2) year construction schedule. Maybe we
COUNCIL MEETING 67 MARCH 27, 2014
can push that a little bit, but most likely it would be a twenty-four (24) month
construction schedule and then that would then take us to first quarter 2017.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Kagawa, you had a question?
Mr. Kagawa: He answered it.
Chair Furfaro: Oh, he did? Okay, very good. Other
members at this time? Yes?
Ms. Yukimura: Are you through with your progress report
to-date?
Mr. Belles: I would like to add one (1) more thing to
what Mr. Greene said and then I can turn it over to Dirk to cover the Cultural
Advisory Committee.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. I will have questions after your
complete presentation. Thank you.
Mr. Belles: Okay. I think to underscore the point that
Tyler Greene just mentioned, we have gotten an incredible level of cooperation from
the County, not only from the County Council and the Chair, but also from the
Administration, from the Mayor, the Office of the County Attorney, Ian Jung in
particular, and the Planning Department with the Planning Director, Mike Dahilig
being great assistance to us. There are no guarantees in this, but I really
appreciate the openness, the intellect that they have applied to work together with
us to come up with an appropriate entitlement course of action and also, helping us
come up with the best possible design in operations for the property. They have
done it in a very timely fashion and knowing things and challenges that they have
to deal with, it is truly remarkable, the amount of time that they have afforded us
to help us move this project along. So, I wanted to acknowledge that because it has
been very important to us getting to the point that we have now and I hope you will
all agree that not just with the community relations, but in all things when you
consider we were just here in December with the holidays. Quite a bit has been
accomplished in the last two (2) to two and a half (2%) months. We want to
continue that momentum and continue moving rapidly, but also do things
thoughtfully and properly. All of things have to be done, but some of them are time
consuming. With that brief recap, I will turn it over to Dirk Soma and he will cover
the community relations side together with all of the good work that the Cultural
Advisory Committee has done for Coco Palms.
Chair Furfaro: Well, thank you. I just want to make sure
we have no more questions for Mr. Greene about the brand, the management
contract, and so forth. Then, the last question I had was the community meetings,
an update regarding the discussions, and we will turn that over to Dirk.
DIRK SOMA: Aloha, good afternoon Council. For the
record, Dirk Soma, member of the Cultural Advisory Committee. I guess due to
attrition, I am the least busy of everyone that is on the Committee so I have been
asked to kind of appear here before you today. You do have a copy of a report that
we generated for Tyler and Chad. It just goes through the amount of activity that
the Coco Palms Cultural Advisory Committee (CPCAC) has done since coming
together in October. Real quickly, I will go through the report. Our initial activity
COUNCIL MEETING 68 MARCH 27, 2014
started off again, with developing our objectives as a Cultural Advisory Committee
and we came up with three (3). The three (3) of them are to assemble the best ideas
from respective members of the Hawaiian host community and seek guidance that
ensure that the integrity of the property is perpetuated while supporting a resort
that is sustainable. So, the underlying objective of us is to support a resort
development. The second objective is to create and present to Coco Palms Hui, LLC
a guiding document that focuses on the hoi i or the reverence of the property by
honoring and incorporating the rich history and culture of the ■ ina into the resort's
design and programs. Our third objective is to provide opportunities for all Kaua`i's
voices to share their mans o as the Coco Palms moves from conceptualization or an
idea and becomes a destination that emulates the values of aloha and ho okipa. So,
these are the first things that we did, is developing our objectives. Then extension
of the Iniki Ordinance and we are very happy that we were able to get the
extension.
Once we got the extension, we moved ahead with our other objectives. You
will see a section of our guiding principles document that is there for you and there
are five (5) guiding principles that we have submitted to Coco Palms Hui, LLC.
These are very important because as we move forward, we want to make sure that
the integrity of the development and the resort once it operates, honors the things
that we are tasked to do through our objectives. The first guiding principle is we
will honor the sacredness of the aina on which the property stands and the
surrounding area. Second, is that we will preserve the history of the host culture as
well as the culture that of made Coco Palms the iconic destination of Kauai. Third,
we will perpetuate the host culture through integrating Hawaiian cultural values
and activities into all phases of operations so that associates understand the sense
of place of their worksite and their kuleana as hosts. So, here we see the Coco
Palms Cultural Advisory Committee not just a part of the development, but the
operations as well. The fourth guiding principle is that we will offer authentic
activities and programs so that guests will come away with truly unique Kaua`i
experiences. The last guiding principle is we will provide a gathering place for
Kaua`i's community to honor the ?lino and perpetuate Kaua`i's sense of community.
So, those five (5) guiding principles have been shared with the developers, they have
embraced them, and we have also shared these at all of our community meetings.
Then you will see Attachment B actually has the guiding principles document
in its complete form. Then, we engaged in various community activities. So, if you
look at our timeline beginning on February 5th, we hosted a luncheon at the Aston
Aloha Beach Hotel for our Native Hawaiian community stakeholders. We did have
about thirty-three (33) people in attendance and we had an opportunity to go
through a discussion where we shared the CPCAC's objectives, our guiding
principles, and then we gave every participant the opportunity to vision what it is
they would like to see as the Coco Palms development. What would you like to see
in that operations? So, in Attachment C, you will see all of the comments that we
gathered. We handed out 3x5 cards, we asked them to list three (3) to five (5) ideas,
and we asked every individual to share their highest priority. So, what you have in
front of you in Attachment C, are the verbatim comments from that luncheon. On
the 25th, we hosted a meeting with Hawai`i Island Land Trust and Friends of Coco
Palms as well as community members at the Kapa'a Neighborhood Center. You will
see in Attachment D, all of the comments that they shared there. On March 14th,
we were really happy to host the current cohort of Leadership Kaua`i. So, those
students were able to take a site tour of the property and then also be exposed to
the objectives as well as the guiding principles and Tyler did a great job of kind of
just walking them through the property and sharing the vision for Coco Palms.
COUNCIL MEETING 69 MARCH 27, 2014
(Mr. Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Mr. Soma: You will see on March 20th, this was a really
fun activity we did with Kamehameha Schools Ipu Kukui Intersession Program.
Not only did we have them walk on property and share their mana`o, but we also
took them on a tour up Wailua River with Kawika Smith. He got to share with
them the history of the area, their history as running a business in the area for four
(4) generations, and Kawika's kuleana as that next generation of owner with his
family owned business. Then again, the walkthrough that we did with them on
property. You will see Attachment E has all of their comments. It is really great to
see this perspective from our youth because they are the next generation of
stakeholders as we move forward. Then most recently on March 21st, we had a
general community meeting at Kapa'a Neighborhood Center and you will see in
Attachment F, all of the verbatim comments there.
From all of these, we saw a lot of thoughtful responses and they were not just
about individual preferences, but they were about community preferences as well.
You will see that there are recurring themes as you look at these lists. Some
thought about bringing back a lot of the things that Grace was doing, torch lighting
ceremony and coconut tree planting ceremonies. There were also suggestions for
authentic Hawaiian cultural activities whether it be la au lapa'au, hula, `Olelo
No`eau, `Olelo Hawai`i, lomilomi, whatever it may be, making those authentic.
Then there was a series of comments that embraced the community and ensured
that community would have access to the property. I think (inaudible) had over two
hundred twenty-five (225) comments in total that we have put together. We did get
additional E-mails from attendees and we did respond to those E-mails thanking
them for coming, and we shared with each group that was at each meeting, their
respective list from their meetings. So, if they gave us their E-mail contacts, we
sent them a copy of all of the comments that came out of their meeting. Our next
steps that you see to continue the communication. In one (1) instance when we met
with the Native Hawaiian community they asked if they could share this with their
network and if their network had feedback, could we bring it back to the group?
(Mr. Kagawa was noted as present.)
Mr. Soma: I said, "By all means." The whole Ho`okipa
network has come up with some ideas and they want to share them with us as well.
So, we want to keep communication open. We do have two (2) meetings scheduled
bedsides the one that is in the report, the April 26th tour with Hawaiian Island
Land Trust. Coco Palms Hui, LLC will be the presented speaker at the Kauai
Native Hawaiian Chamber of Commerce breakfast meeting on April 15th. That is
not put in this report. So, there are two (2) additional formal meetings that are
already on the calendar for April. We just are really, really fortunate and pleased to
be a part of this process at the ground floor. The Advisory Committee knows it does
not have all of the answers and we continue to reach out to the community. Based
on the receptiveness that we have gotten from the developers, we are very happy to
be working in tandem on this project. So, that is our report. You can read through
each of those comments and you will see maybe some of your own thoughts and
feelings about it listed in that. So, we do feel that we are on the right track with
this. I will take any questions that you may have.
Chair Furfaro: So, very thorough, very much appreciated.
Dirk, can you give us a copy of the bylaws of the activities associated with the
Native Hawaiian Chamber of Commerce?
COUNCIL MEETING 70 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Soma: I would be happy to.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Could you identify for us, the
membership qualifications?
Mr. Soma: Sure. Would you like that in writing or I
would be happy to explain that right now?
Chair Furfaro: Before the next visit just so that when you
refer to these organizations, we understand their structure and so forth.
Mr. Soma: Sure.
Chair Furfaro: I appreciate the summary on the guiding
principles. Obviously, I guess looking at this and being someone who has worked
Coco Palms at the same time, understanding some of these similarities with resorts
that have tried to perpetuate a sense of place and so forth. I was wondering if you
folks are, as you referenced it, "honor the sacredness of the area." If you are trying
to maybe reference those terms in Hawaiian? For example, the sacredness of Coco
Palms itself is being a place that is wahipuna?
Mr. Soma: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: And so forth. You might want to look at
some, but the one I seem to be missing here myself, the value of ho okipa, the sense
of being a good host once the people are actually here. So, I am sure that will play
into your brand name and your service.
Mr. Soma: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: But those are just outside comments.
Mr. Kagawa, you have the floor.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you, Chair. I want to thank all of you
for the report. Very thorough for a quarterly report and I want to thank you all for
showing up. Three (3) months ago, I think we were, I do not want to say fifty/fifty
(50/50), but we did not have a press release by the Mayor saying Coco Palms is
back. He just showed a lot of hope, but since then I think maybe that was two (2)
months ago, you see pretty much he made a statement that he believes we are on
our way and he made a statement that I think hit the major newspapers as well as
KHON News. So, I mean, is that feeling shared with the group? I mean, obviously,
the Mayor came out.
Mr. Greene: Just a general comment on that. We have
been pleasantly surprised and grateful at the same time in terms of how everything
seems to be coming together. Every day, it is just more and more tangible and
every day we wake up and we feel we are getting closer to the goal collectively with
everyone. For Chad and I, what has been so amazing is the love and support we felt
from Kaua`i in general and how it is not about us, it is about Kaua`i. It is bigger
than us and so for us, this project is going to happen. We feel very confident that
this is going to happen.
Mr. Kagawa: So, in your opinion, you folks are on hundred
percent (100%) sure we are going to get this done?
COUNCIL MEETING 71 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Greene: Well, we are more than committed and so for
us, yes, it is one hundred percent (100%) for sure.
Mr. Kagawa: I appreciate that. I think when you take on
a big venture like this, you have that "nothing is going to stop you" attitude. So,
thank you and you have a that "nothing is going to stop you" attitude because I
have known Dirk for a long time and I know that he does not know how to go less
than one hundred percent (100%) in anything he does. So, I expressed that to other
Councilmembers as well prior to you briefing us here, but he has a good heart so he
is going to take care of what the local area concerns are. My only...because I am
one hundred percent (100%) sure it is gong to happen. My biggest worry and this is
not really a question, is on the traffic, the impact there. There are two (2) areas
that I am particularly concerned about, is the main highway because Kapa'a is
already stuffed as it is. So, I guess at a later point as we get closer to the project
getting done, what kind of work have we done with the State to get traffic to merge
in smoothly whether it be creating a merge lane of some type from the hotel to the
main highway. I would really appreciate that. Also, any impacts to the Wailua
Homesteads and Houselots areas. I am sure there are ways of again, of flowing
smoother into traffic without plugging traffic and I really would appreciate it. I
realize when you add a lot of cars, you cannot expect things to get better, but as
long as we really work well with the County and the State Engineers, I would really
appreciate it because we definitely do not want to add to what is already a bad
problem at times in Kapa`a. Thank you again.
Mr. Greene: Thank you.
Mr. Chock: Chair, thank you. Congratulations. Good
job. Thank you, Dirk for all of the hard work you have done as well with the
community. I can tell by the different groups that you had participate, that is a
diversity of perspective and do you feel comfortable about that as well in terms of all
the people and voices that you have been able to interact with in terms of getting
feedback?
Mr. Soma: I think it is a representation. We still need
to have more voices.
Mr. Chock: Okay.
Mr. Soma: Our vision was to work with small circles
and work out. So, we started with our Native Hawaiian community first, then to
the Friends of Coco Palms and Hawaiian Island Land Trust, and then to the larger
community. So, since we have done these three (3) opportunities to reach out, now
there is opportunity to reach out even further and then deeper within each of these
circles as well. Like I mentioned, the ho`okipa network, Nani Rogers, and that is
her group. So, once she shared all of the mans o from that meeting and said, "We
have some more ideas, can we come back and meet again?" Most definitely. Again,
not only are we working wider in the circles, but deeper within each of the circles.
Mr. Chock: Good. Mahalo. I was looking on I think
Attachment F or the one that walks about what you are going to do with the iwi
kupuna (inaudible)? Man, that is a big one. Do you folks still see concerns with
that issue at Coco Palms and some of your (inaudible)?
COUNCIL MEETING 72 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Soma: Yes, I think it is a definite concern and I
think we have learned a lot of lessons from what people have done incorrectly and
correctly. So, we can learn from those correct lessons and move forward. It is
again, engaging the right people and doing it the right way.
Mr. Chock: Thank you. Now, just one (1) last thing. I
know there was talk about working with the Public Land Trust and is that
discussion still continuing and moving forward?
Mr. Greene: Yes, there are continuous conversations and
just in general terms, what we are discussing is actually granting a conservation
easement on the back mauka side of the property.
Mr. Chock: Okay.
Mr. Greene: So, that was something that they had asked
for and something we felt that we were willing to do.
Mr. Chock: Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Greene: So, we have not worked out the logistics of
that and how that would look, but those conversations are in progress.
Mr. Chock: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: JoAnn, you have the floor, Councilmember
Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you. I do want to congratulate you
and thank you for this work done thus far. It is good that hear that things have
been going well. So, I am glad to hear that. My questions are regarding the input
that you have gotten from the community and I am grateful that you have done this
work. I guess the question is for Tyler. With all of this input, what are you going to
do with it?
Mr. Greene: Well, I think that is why we are so grateful
we have Dirk to help us lead, organize, and take all of these things into
consideration. It really has been eye opening for us that there is a lot of
commonality here and I think that the community at large, it feels to us, wants the
same thing that we have always wanted, and that is to bring Coco Palms back to its
original glory. One thing that we really liked was how Dirk passed out the 3x5
cards so that we could collect all of that. To answer your question specifically, as we
continue to grow the Coco Palms Cultural Advisory Committee, those are things
that will then get infused into the program. So, from a timing standpoint, our
objective was to work through the submittal of the permits, once we know we have
got the permits, then Dirk, Chad, and I can all sit back and say, "Okay, how are we
then going to make all of these things a reality and to what extent?" So, that is
what we are in the process of doing.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. So, Councilmember Kagawa brought
up the issue of traffic which was on my list. I guess, as you are developing your
application for permits, you must be grappling with that issue?
COUNCIL MEETING 73 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Greene: Yes, and there are a couple different concepts
that we are kind of working with. I do not want to speak out of turn here, but we
are looking at the possibility of maybe bringing the main entrance of the hotel on
the Haleiolio side of the property. So that way, when people come in from Lihu`e
across the bridge, they do not have to turn at the light there where the Homesteads
is. So, the thought is if we could keep that traffic moving because it is usually that
left turn lane that gets so backed up. If we could keep that traffic moving to what
would be the Wailua side of the property, they come in there and then maybe even
we look about having a turnabout so that instead of coming out on that side of the
property, they come back to Haleiolio and then exist the property that way. That is
number one, and then number two on our marketing side, we really want to push
the idea that you can come to Kaua`i and you do not have to be so reliant on a car.
So, we are really pushing the bike path and toying with the idea of having maybe a
fleet of ten (10) electric cars on the property that a hotel guess could rent for an
hour or half a day or so on and so forth. So, now they do not have to come and rent
a car for a week and then it just kind of bogs everything down. Then with that, we
would set up tours in the morning. Maybe one morning they can go to the North
Shore, next morning they can go to the South Shore. So, in the course of two (2) or
three (3) days, they can feel like they have seen everything they needed to fit into
Kaua`i and then the rest of the time, they can enjoy all of the amenities right there
in Wailua and Kapa`a. There is really so many fascinating things in our opinion,
about that area, whether it is because of the historical side of because of Wailua
River and how that ties in or because of Queen Deborah Kapule. So, there is just a
lot of things for people to really soak in there and so there is no need in our opinion,
for them to be driving all over the island the whole time that they are here. So, that
is kind of...part of our program is to really push that and with this traveler coming
in, actually show them that it is more conformable to not have to worry about a car,
that we will pick you up at the airport, we will have everything laid out for you, and
you do not have to worry about anything else.
Ms. Yukimura: I like that. What about the crossing of the
main highway?
Mr. Greene: It is a delicate issue for sure. The way we
have it set up in terms of getting people to the beach is we are talking about a
shuttle that would, whether it is in kind of a golf cart fashion or whatever it may be,
that would just run loops that would pick up the guests and then come in. We are
in discussions as well as having public parking for beach access on the property. So,
the shuttle is not just for hotel guests, it is for anybody that wants to go the beach
that day and they can come in and just be on continuous loops and then drop people
off across the street by the Seashell Restaurant there.
Ms. Yukimura: So, you have abandoned the ideas of either
an underpass or an overpass?
Mr. Greene: Yes, it just seems to be too problematic.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Well, I mean, your shuttle is still
going to add to the traffic.
Mr. Green: Yes, and so that is something that we need to
work through.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. What about housing?
COUNCIL MEETING 74 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Greene: Do you want to comment on that issue?
Mr. Belles: We have not had an opportunity to sit down
with Housing yet. The main reason for that is we have not even decided on what
the density of the project is. As you know based on prior discussions that we have
had with individual members of the Council, plus what we said during the course of
the public hearings and public meetings that we had on the Tniki Ordinance, the
client is looking at acquiring parcels and looking to ultimately, once we decide on
what the housing obligation would be, sitting down with the County Housing
Agency, but until we have done more internal work and come up with a plan that
they feel is viable and sustainable, it would be premature to sit down with Housing,
but it is something that we want to do. Ideally, in our next quarterly report, we will
have a component that deals with the housing issue.
Ms. Yukimura: Well, I think that is acceptable. I mean, I
understand that you are focusing on permits and on getting the inputs that can
infuse your permitting...the putting together of your permit applications. I am
thinking that the Housing Agency on its side, should be looking at creative
opportunities too and they have been very busy. So, I do not know that they have
spent much time there, but I am glad that it is still on your list and I am hopeful for
something that will be very beneficial to the community and to you as well.
Mr. Belles: Well, and having worked with the Country
Housing Agency in many different capacities in my career, I can say this without
being facetious, I look forward to sitting down with them and inviting their ideas. I
believe that by working together, we can come up with an appropriate plan.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes. My last question is about the density
issue. You said you have not settled yet on that?
Mr. Belles: Correct.
Ms. Yukimura: But that will be settled by the time you apply
for permits I presume?
Mr. Belles: Absolutely, it has to because the density,
total number of unit count, is going to drive parking and so many other issues. Bad
pun using the word "driving," but a lot of issues are going to be reliant on the
number of units, where the units are located, and the ultimate design of the plan.
So, all of these things are really working together in tandem.
Ms. Yukimura: And what was your permit schedule? When
are you targeting submitting the application?
Mr. Belles: We would like to file in the next sixty (60)
days for the SMA Class IV Project Development Use Permit, we would like to file
the Shoreline Setback Determination (SSD) for the after-the-fact dust fence in the
next couple of weeks, and if all goes well, we would like to have permits with
reasonable conditions between September and December, before the end of the year.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Alright. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Now, we will go to Mr. Bynum.
COUNCIL MEETING 75 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Bynum: Thank you for the update and you really got
my attention with the traffic discussion. So, I want to start just by saying I had
some involvement in the visitor industry in the past and we are losing a market
share on Kaua`i because there are people who cannot or choose not to drive cars. So,
I just want to applaud your initiative very hugely. I hope that Coconut Resort
Association is looking at a shuttle again someday to serve the Coconut Coast. We
had a history of doing that with the startup during a difficult economic time and
there was not frankly, enough logical stops and not all of the hotels bought in, that
kind of thing, but I hope that is a part of the future endeavor.
The overpass last time, you folks were like yes, overpass. It will take
surfboards too. That was my question and I have always thought that the Seashell
Restaurant and now the four (4) lane project, there has been some land acquisition.
The State is going to come in there and do some things that is going to affect
Haleiolio and the left turn lane there. Very complex issues as you have noted. We
have great flexibility at the State level from our local official in my experience, but
once you get to the State level, it is like a black hole. So, I hope you are...does
this...there is a question here. Do these issues have to be resolved for the SMA? I
mean, what are the timelines here? I love your idea about an alternative kind of
shuttle thing. Some of this and where I get confused is in the past, we had these
other proposals where there was commitments made for parking for these kinds of
issues. You are in the middle of that. Some of these questions you can answer and
other you do not, right? So, do you need that for the SMA was the first question?
Mr. Belles: Well, for the SMA permit in my experience
historically, they do look at issues like traffic, they do look at issues to mitigate
traffic impacts like a shuttle, like bus service, and using alternative means of
transportation and the multimodal path is a great example of that. Being it
abutting the property, it is something that would greatly benefit the clientele as
well as surrounding community. It would lessen impacts all the way around. So, it
is self-serving for us to pursue these opportunities. I use the word "opportunity"
deliberately and not obstacles because I think it is a win-win if we can pursue these
successfully and have these other options available to us rather than just have
everyone having a dedicated car.
Mr. Bynum: So, these issues about the traffic flow, the
impacts, is something you have to be working on right now.
Mr. Belles: They are part of the design, for the site plan,
and it will part of the application because we do have to discuss traffic impacts.
Based on my experience, I can almost assure you that it will be a discussion before
the Planning Commission as well as the Planning Department before we file our
application about how we plan on dealing with the traffic impacts.
Mr. Bynum: Because you have land ownership there,
some of these may be mitigated. So, my next question is about the Wailua
Houselots community and whether you are doing outreach there. I was a resident
there thirteen (13) years and whatever happens there at that signal, and probably
half of the residents do not know that the current plan is they are going to lose their
left turn lane into, and I still do not understand how that is going to get mitigated.
Now you add some of the things you are talking about. Do you have a traffic
engineer working on this?
COUNCIL MEETING 76 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Belles: We will have traffic engineer. We will have
to do the appropriate studies and analysis to have the answers for the Planning
Commission. I can tell you I personally have a stake on this. I live up Kuamo`o
Road, my partner lives in Houselots. So, we want to make sure that our quality of
life is nto adversely affected by this development as well.
Mr. Bynum: So, Ray McCormick is in dialogue with you
folks?
Mr. Belles: We have had one (1) meeting with him and
we are going to be having several others. As you know, as part of any permitting
process, you do have responses from State Highways Division because we will be
utilizing and impacting the State highway system.
Mr. Bynum: I could go on with this, but I know you are
doing your due diligence. Last one, Seashell Restaurant, is that out of this mix?
Mr. Belles: No, the Seashell Restaurant is also being
proposed to be renovated and rebuilt just like the hotel. The only issue that has
been taken off of the table now as Tyler Greene explained, was the overpass because
that regrettably, has a lot of entitlement problems with it including the possibility
of an Environmental Impact Study (EIS) because you are using a State
right-of-way. That is an absolute trigger in the State law, Chapter 3430(A), Hawai`i
Revised Statutes. So, that is really inhibiting our ability to pursue that because if
we were to consider that, I can guarantee you that would delay our project beyond
the two (2) years you have given us under the Iniki Ordinance to see this project
through.
Mr. Bynum: I am not surprised that was the conclusion
about the overpass.
Mr. Belles: I just want to be honest with you about why
that has diminished in terms of being a reality because before we looked into this,
that was something that we wanted to pursue and why we discussed at the last
meeting as you pointed out, the idea of having somebody step into the elevator and
have a surfboard with them, was our goal.
Mr. Bynum: This is the only issue I am going to stick with
and then let go. This is really, really important now because that bridge was the
solution to all of these, how are you going to get visitors there, the guests back and
forth, right? So, this is something I want to really pay close attention to personally
because I feel like a commitment to those Wailua folks who are going to be impacted
by this and in the recreational use, things have changed. There is a path there now
that is a good thing, but it also adds some complicating factors. So, good luck
figuring that one out because that one is critical, but I also heard a commitment
that whatever system there, would be available for the people who live in the
Houselots. I used to go down there and take the kids across the road and leave
them fishing for a couple of hours then come back because as a parent, I would not
let them cross that road. So, I hope you are committed to the people there to help
with the solution that works for the local residents as well. Thank you very much.
Mr. Bells: Well, as Mr. Greene explained, the shuttle is
not only going to be available to people occupying units at the hotel, but will also be
made available to members of the general public. Is that correct?
COUNCIL MEETING 77 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Greene: Yes.
Mr. Bynum: And then there is like parking on that side
too for general public perhaps too?
Mr. Belles: We will be working together with the
Planning Department and ultimately the Commission to have parking at both ends
of the site so that those opportunities are available to the public also. So, it is not
inconvenient where they have to walk the full length of the property to get from one
side to the other or be as most people are by human nature, lazy, and cross the
street wherever you can including outside of crosswalks.
Mr. Bynum: Right. Yes. Thank you very much.
Chair Furfaro: Again members, I just want to remind us all,
this is our first briefing on this. I am going to give Mr. Hooser the floor next, but I
want to let you know I have opened five (5) of the hotels on this island and the key
part of this is true. Before you mandate what the visitor is doing, you need to make
sure you know that brand you are dealing with because it is their customer that
finds themselves expecting certain levels of service delivery and I just want to point
that out there. You may say ten (10) electrics cars, but the reality, if you have a
GIT group operator, ten (10) electric cars is not going to make the day for them.
You have East bound visitors and West bound visitors that they are married to
certain brands, which have certain customer expectation. So, it is clear to me that
you probably will know by the next time we meet who you might have as an
operator. That is correct?
Mr. Greene: Absolutely.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Mr. Hooser, you have the floor.
Mr. Hooser: Thank you, gentlemen for being here and
thank you for your presentation. The issue or the question I have is regarding the
walkway over the highway. Clearly, there will be, hopefully, hundreds of people
every day that visit and many of them if not most, will want to go across the street.
So, I would encourage you to revisit the issue. I know Chapter 343 intimately and it
should not be a roadblock per se. There are three (3) ways to get through that. One
is to get an exemption. If the Agency looks at it and says there is not going to be an
impact. The other would be an Environmental Assessment (EA), which is not an
earth moving act of Congress kind of document and I would hope that you could get
by with this Environmental Assessment. If in fact it was required in a full
Environmental Impact Statement, then I would say, "Yes, this is going to cost some
money and going to take some time." Given the long standing situation that there
is just going to be more traffic, there is just going to be more traffic and there is
going to be more people. So, I would encourage you to look at that option perhaps
again or look for other ways to move people easily. I know we talked about shuttles
earlier or other kinds of transportation, but I think the human inclination is going
to be to want to run across the street. So, just...I mean, it is supposed to be a
question.
Mr. Belles: Well, I will give you an answer even if there
was not a question.
Mr. Hooser: Okay.
COUNCIL MEETING 78 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Belles: We do not want to foreclose that opportunity,
but in addition to the trigger being the use of State lands, there is also the issue of
how you would construct and design an overpass with the high water table, the
dredging that would be required, and a lot of those other engineering factors would
probably also be a non-waivable trigger to the EIS. Again, I just want to be candid
with you and tell you what we have learned so far. We would like nothing better
than to pursue that, but because of the specter of the EIS, I believe it would be very
difficult for us to pursue that and meet the timelines that we have committed to.
Mr. Hooser: So, is it possible...if I can ask one (1) more
question or ask a question, that you are looking at it in terms of long term planning
where it does not impact the opening of the structure, but yet remains a part of the
plan that you intend to implement after it opens?
Mr. Belles: The problem with that is that we have a
Hawai`i Supreme Court decision that says if you have something that has to be done
in phases or there is coupling in terms of the planning process, then you have to
study it at the get-go, which if we were to be honest and approach this in the
appropriate and lawful fashion, you would have to do the EIS if this was part of the
ultimate plan.
Mr. Hooser: So, the EIS is required?
Mr. Belles: Correct.
Mr. Hooser: Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. We will go around one (1) more
time. Mr. Kagawa, you have the floor.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you, Chair. For me, the overpass was
not there before and it is not a deal breaker for me. I just read the Star Advertiser,
just briefed through it. It said Kaua`i is the fastest growing County in the State per
the census. We are growing at one point six percent (1.6%). Maui is second at one
point four percent (1.4%). That is one of the main reasons I was promoting in
supporting this project, was the jobs that it could provide, not only primary jobs. As
you know, Kaua`i, there is a costly price to live in this beautiful place we live and
some people need two (2) or three (3)jobs in order to pay the mortgage and whatnot.
So, I just think the opportunity of having that chance to not only serve our
residents, but also our newcomers who are new residents, that opportunity to work
and to have that place that we all love and remember. I think as all of the
Councilmembers have mentioned, that overpass would be nice, but I do not think it
is only on your shoulders. I think people do cross that road now. It does cause
traffic problems not without the hotel. People enjoy the kayak rides and then they
want to go to the beach area. Some do now know of that back road walkway
through the sand or they are Americans with Disability Act (ADA) or they have a
bike, they have to wait there. So, I think it is part of the State and the County's
responsibility to our residents. We have a beautiful bike path there. I think
possibly a partnership with the State and County to work or try partnership,
whatever it may be, but I think it is a long-term plan that we could look at, but I do
not think it is a deal breaker right now. I think the deal breaker right now is for
you folks to do what you have been doing and I applaud your work up to this point.
Mr. Belles: Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING 79 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you.
Ms. Yukimura: I want to talk about that overpass too and
actually, Councilmember Hooser pretty much covered where I wanted to go on it. I
mean, I am somewhat horrified that the EIS process, which was meant to protect
the environment is making it more difficult to look at what I think would be an
environmentally better solution than shuttles or more cars or people trying to cross
at grade, that four (4) lane highway. All of that is a major problem and even if you
do not address it before you open, it is going to come back to haunt you, I believe, in
just the operations of your hotel. If State land is a problem, and I understand why
it is a problem, we should somehow change that along the lines of what
Councilmember Kagawa is saying. They need to be willing partners in solving this
problem because it is their problem, State Department of Transportation (DOT),
and it is our problem, the County, that wants a workable solution on our highways
and we also want our visitors not to be so upset about our traffic congestion. So, I
just want to say to Councilmember Bynum's suggestion of a shuttle in Kapa'a town.
Actually, if the Kaua`i Bus system can come every half an hour and then every
fifteen (15) minutes, which is what our long-term goal is, you do not really need a
shuttle, but you have to cross the street and then go to the bus stop which is very
close across from Kintaro or Courtyard at Waipouli. That is not a far walk if you
can make if a safe walk and if they go every half hour or every fifteen (15) minutes,
our ultimate goal, getting into Kapa'a is not a problem. So, there is that. What if
you did work with the State Highways system, and thank God we have Ray
McCormick. I know that it gets harder as you go up, and have the State propose a
project.
Mr. Belles: If there was lawful way for the overpass to
be built without interfering with the timeline that is imposed on us to develop the
Coco Palms project, then that is something that we could work together with the
County and the State on, but as long as there is a legal obstacle to us pursuing that
path, then it is not something that I would recommend or could recommend to my
client, that we do it and it might necessitate, as you suggest, either a change in the
law or a better legal mind than mine to look at this and find a way of approaching
this.
Ms. Yukimura: Or the State taking it on as a project because
my mind was going to roundabouts and I know Michael Moule, I hope you are
listening. I do not see how it can really work there, but because if you are talking
about an entrance over there, those are a lot of left turns, whether it is by your
shuttle to the airport or your individual cars coming in. So, we need a solution
there, but if you say you are willing to contribute to the construction of the
overpass, that might help a lot of the cost.
Mr. Greene: Can I just make a quick comment? It is our
preference to do that bridge, but the balancing act is as Mr. Belles said, just the
timing because we are worried about the timeline on the ¶niki Ordinance, but also
the timing of the opening of the hotel to hit the market at the right time, but our
first choice would be to do the bridge.
Chair Furfaro: This is just a briefing time. Mr. Hooser, you
have the floor.
Mr. Hooser: Yes, thank you, Chair. Just to follow-up on
Councilmember Yukimura's follow-up on the overpass. I think really, that is the
COUNCIL MEETING 80 MARCH 27, 2014
legal solution. You have not yet met with the State Highways or you have? Have
you met with the State Highways?
Mr. Belles: No, we have not met on the issue of the
overpass.
Mr. Hooser: Okay. No, but on the highway
improvements fronting the property.
Mr. Belles: Just preliminarily.
Mr. Hooser: Okay, because it is my understanding that
the State has a major project there to go to three (3) lanes, that it was funded, and I
am not sure where the funding is now, but it is a major project. That project will
require an EIS or an Environmental Review for Chapter 343 anyway. So, the State
has to do that review to do the highway improvement. So, I would think that if this
was a priority of yours, and you said it is, that you could talk to the State and
express a willingness to work with them and to fund part of that overpass, if not all
of it, in conjunction with the highway improvements. In that way, it is part of that
improvement, it is not part of your improvement, but yet you have made the
commitment to make it happen. At the end of the day, I think Councilmember
Yukimura used the correct word. This is going to come back to haunt you. There is
no question. I mean, it is just a matter of time and bad things could happen. We
had the discussion, we talk about it, and we make a conscious decision not to do it,
then later something bad happens and it makes it even worse for all of us. So,
would you consider doing that when you talk to the State, making them some kind
of commitment that when they move their highway improvements through, you
would like to see an overpass and will help make it happen?
Mr. Belles: We have no objections to discussing anything
with anyone. If this is a viable option that will not interfere with our timeline to
rebuild and renovate the Coco Palms Hotel project pursuant to the Iniki Ordinance,
then it is the case of leaving no stone unturned and it is something that as was
suggested by other members of the Council, we may need the support of not only the
County Council, but the County Administration working together working with
State of Hawai`i Department of Transportation, perhaps the Governor's Office, and
the State Legislature to see if this is something that we can do in a viable way and
not invite legal problems that haunted the Superferry. It is as simple as that.
Mr. Hooser: Right, but the State has to comply with
Chapter 343 to do the highway improvements. There is no question about that and
so that will be based on whether there is three (3) lanes or four (4) lanes or two (2)
lanes or whether there is a curb and gutter or whether there is an overpass. It will
be an all-encompassing Environmental Review.
Mr. Belles: We will not refuse to talk to anyone about
anything and this is something that we have a self-interest in seeing that this be
done because it will make for a safer and expedient means of transportation for our
clients as well as members of the general public.
Mr. Hooser: Thank you.
Mr. Greene: Something that we could offer is rather than
wait another ninety (90) days until we see you folks next, is we could put our heads
COUNCIL MEETING 81 MARCH 27, 2014
together on this and have those conversations and then maybe in the next thirty
(30) days give you an update on maybe possible options.
Mr. Hooser: That would be great.
Mr. Greene: Yes.
Mr. Hooser: Thank you. Thank you, Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Well, gentlemen, I know you did hear from
us today about some challenges, but you also heard some encouragement and we did
say "putting our heads together" not knocking our heads together. So, let us do it
cooperatively and with as many agencies that will kokua with you. I want to say
that we do plan to see you in June and I would like to say that I would like to have a
better understanding of brand selection and a better understanding of where we are
talking about density. At one time, you told us we were going from three hundred
ninety-five (395) maybe to three hundred twenty-five (325), but maybe we could
have a better idea about the project density. One of the items that I think we need
to also start talking about or having a better understanding is the financing of the
project. I would like to think that is going to be really important when we get
together in June to have an understanding of how that is all coming together
because no hotel, not even Coco Palms when it opened with twenty-four (24) rooms,
overnight was successful with one hundred percent (100%) occupancy. There is
going to be some carry-in costs for a couple of years until it is recirculated on the
map and we would like to hear about your finance and marketing plan as we go
forward. Thank you very much for your time today and we will keep you posted,
but we will see you in June.
Mr. Belles: Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the
Council for giving us this opportunity. It is something that helps us, gives us
direction, and I think does show that there are times when a private landowner and
developer can work hand in hand with the County and all other stakeholders to
make for a better project. Thank you very much.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much, Mike.
Mr. Greene: Just one (1) last thing. We are just very
grateful for your guidance and support. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Well, you will find that there is a lot of aloha
here for Coco Palms and we are delighted to see as many associations, societies
working with you to make this a success. Thank you. I am going to ask for any
public comment. Remember, I am keeping public comment to three (3) minutes
today because we have a really full, full agenda. Is there anyone that would like to
add anything to the Coco Palms briefing at this point? Okay.
There being no one to provide testimony at this time, the meeting was called
back to order, and proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: I am recommending sometime in early June,
for an update if that is acceptable to all of you. If not, I do want to move on to the
next item with a simple receive for the day. A motion has been made.
COUNCIL MEETING 82 MARCH 27, 2014
The motion to receive C 2014-87 for the record was then put, and
unanimously carried.
Chair Furfaro: Very good. Thank you very much. I am
going to go right into the next item, which we had hoped to have on by about
3:00 p.m. and I want the Engineering Department to understand my instructions
after I have this item read with the Koloa flood area.
There being no objections, C 2014-89 was taken out of order.
C 2014-89 Communication (03/05/2014) from Council Chair Furfaro,
requesting the presence of the County Engineer, to provide an update on the Ala
Kalanikaumaka Street off-site drainage area and the efforts of the Department of
Public Works to address the reported problems that occur following heavy rain.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. For those of you who were not
here earlier in the day, this is an agenda item that I put on the agenda possibly to
get an update and just receipt, but members of the table indicated that if we took
some testimony and there was strong enough testimony to move this to a
Committee, then we would have that discussion with Engineering in a Committee
level, not on the briefing level. If that is the case, if we know we are going to defer
it to a Committee, I will not call Engineering up now, but refer it to that Committee
Meeting. So, I would like to start if I can, with taking some testimony on this flood
issue from the public and I will call up Mr. Abreu first.
There being on objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
Chair Furfaro: If both of you can introduce yourselves and
then each of you get three (3) minutes of testimony on your belief of why this item
should be in Committee for further attention. We can make a decision about
referring it at that time. Most of the work on the problem issue is done in
Committee, not at full Council. If you can introduce yourselves, Mr. Abreu.
RUSSELL ABREU: My name is Russell Abreu and I represent
the Church at Koloa. I am one of the board members there and we have had an
issue with the County for the last couple years and it is due to the flooding of the
bypass road. We have met with the County prior to this, Engineering Department,
stated our concerns, but we feel it has not been addressed and this is why we are
this far in this endeavor. The reason for this is because I have been on that
property since, well, I was born in the 1950s, but I have been on that property since
1959 as part of the Church, going there, raising a calf or two right on that property.
We have never had any flooding or any kind of water coming through our property
like it has been now since the bypass road has been passed. Once the bypass road
was built, we felt the water was diverted to us and now it has become a safety issue.
We have water coming through our property that never has been in prior years. I
have explained it to the County Engineering Department, I took them to the site, I
showed the where the old cane field road was, how the water used to come across
the dip in that road, how it was towards the Koloa roadside of the road, and went
down to Waikomo Stream. It never did come to our property because the way it is
built. Once that bypass road was in, they put a culvert in, they had to dig it fairly
deep, and then the water directed to us. As I said, we have never had this type of
flooding until that bypass road was built and now we feel it is a safety issue and the
liability for our Church and the public in that area because we have a public
cemetery back there, we have several rentals backs there, we have a lot of little
COUNCIL MEETING 83 MARCH 27, 2014
kids, and we just want this issue to be solved because again, it is a safety issue and
the only answer we always got from the County was, well, they gave us an aerial
shot. They did not consider any local knowledge of the area, people living in that
area, over the years hunting in that area, knowing how the water used to go the
other way, all that was not really...as far as I am concerned, was never even taken
into consideration. As I said, the people that live there, the gentlemen that
moved...
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Three (3) minutes.
Mr. Abreu: ...the last home in that area, which now
could be threaten by that water had a permit from the County, it was okayed by the
County, that was never a Flood Zone, that one area that they claimed was a natural
flow only had a twelve (12) inch culvert and if that was a natural flow, no way. You
can just see how that bypass road...local knowledge as far as living there, I always
knew that the water would either settle down on. If you either way you go up or
down that road, going up to the Kalaheo area, the water would always settle back
there and if it did really rain heavy, it would come over that road and as far as that
is why the County experienced flooding and from there would come down and would
stay on that old dispensary road, would stay on the Koloa Road side of that property
and went down to Wiakomo Stream. It never did come to us.
Chair Furfaro: Russell, thank you very much for that. Your
timer went off and you stay right there. Cobb-Adams, if you can introduce yourself
as well.
ROLLINA COBB: Rollina Cobb.
Chair Furfaro: Oh, not Cobb-Adams. I am sorry.
Ms. Cobb: I will send her my bills.
Chair Furfaro: Oh, okay. Very good. Go ahead.
Ms. Cobb: You have read most of the information and
dialogue that has gone back. If you have heard Russell before, the message is the
same, for some of you who have heard it. The concern is great and I have been
assisting them to see how they can get this situation resolved. It is interesting
because there are several factors. After or doing or prior to the culvert being built,
there is some dumping area of dirt was done on the field that we are talking about.
In addition, there is another dump, a holding area, of soil that has added to the
flooding that will redirect the same water to a very dangerous area. I think the best
thing, and I do not know when to predict it, is to see this property when it is really
raining and flooding. The one time I went to check during the rainy season when
we are flooding, just at the culvert that was installed on the road abutting the
Church property, it was so heavy that the whirlpool started on both sides. It means
that it was dangerous and that tells me a lot, that I made sure that we were on the
right side so we would not get stuck just in case the culvert was done away with,
but I think seeing this property in the rain when it is bad will show exactly what
gravity did to that water crossing the bypass into the open area through the back of
the Church and that becomes a safety issue for the County as well as the Church.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING 84 MARCH 27, 2014
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: Members, if you understood what I am
saying is this, as you all know, most of this type of work is actually done in
Committee. The Public Works / Parks and Recreation Committee Chair is
Mr. Kagawa and I believe there is an opportunity here to refer this in three (3)
weeks to your Committee, but I cannot make that motion.
Mr. Kagawa: I think I have a response from Public Works
a while ago, maybe a year, regarding this issue and after having gone out with
Councilmember Rapozo and Christiane from our staff, we brought out some of the
concerns and we had a response back. So, I think I want to kind of refresh my
memory as to what the response was. Staff is getting it right now. My
recommendation is that we just finish off this item today. I think Larry is here
prepared to give his response, but if the response is not sufficient and we fell like we
need to get others involved in this issue such as Kukui`ula, then we can go to
Committee. So, let us see how it flows and if we need to...no pun intended. Let us
see how it goes and then we can decide if we need to refer it. Thank you, Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Again, I will depend on one of the Committee
Chairs to make that recommendation. Any other comments at this time? If not, I
am going to bring up Engineering and we are going to hear from them and then
make a decision about referring it to Committee. Mr. Dill, if I can have you come
over.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
LARRY DILL, P.E., County Engineer: Good afternoon Council Chair
and member of the Council. For the record, Larry Dill, County Engineer.
Chair Furfaro: Can you introduce yourself? I heard Larry.
Mr. Dill: Yes, sure. I am sorry. Again, for the record,
Larry Dill, County Engineer and with me I have Michael Moule who is our new
Engineering Division Chief.
Chair Furfaro: Welcome, Michael.
MICHAEL MOULE: Thank you.
Mr. Dill: Michael, obviously being very new does not
have a lot of the background, but has become pretty familiar pretty rapidly with
this particular issue. What I have up there is a plan of the overall area. Can I have
the laser pointer, Scott, please? Thank you. So, this is the Koloa area obviously.
Here is Koloa Road coming down from the highway into Koloa Town, intersection
with Po`ipu Road, and this is Maluheai Road going up towards the tree tunnel back
up to the highway, just to orient you. You see, we have house on Church property is
the house that Mr. Abreu is referring to right about here. This, just showing you
the dashed line, is the western bypass road, Ala Kalanikaumaka. So, what
happened when this western bypass road was built, they experienced some flooding
problems in the road. A lot of this happened prior to me coming on board with
Public Works. So, this stuff was all constructed by that time I think. They sized
some culverts underneath the bypass road and these culverts were meant to
COUNCIL MEETING 85 MARCH 27, 2014
accommodate...you can see that line in sort of a light purple, the drainage area that
drains toward the culvert areas. So, all of the water from that drainage area I
outlined, drains into those culverts. Now, downstream of that, very basic
engineering. Water flows downhill. So, if you follow the contours here you can see
there is a bend in the contour, which indicates and further down here a bend in the
contours that this is basically the flow line for this drainage area. Now, there were
a couple of old cane haul roads that crossed this alignment of that drainage swale or
ditch if you will. So, in order to alleviate flooding because they were blocking the
flow, these are not County roads. As Mr. Abreu pointed out, there was very small
culvert probably eighteen (18) inch culverts at each of those things that were not
accommodating the flow causing water during a significant rain event to back up in
this area and flood Ala Kalanikaumaka. So, the developer or builder of the western
bypass road, through their engineers, submitted a proposal to the County to
basically improve this ditch and clean it out and I do not have the dimensions in
front of me of the ditch. Do you have the cross-section? How wide is the body? Do
you know? It made a regular trapezoidal channel I guess, from here down to the
location and they cleaned it out and terminated just beyond the house over in this
location. Also, as part of that, they have a permanent requirement that across this
property from here down to just above that location, which is all one (1) property,
that the owner of the property would be required to maintain that ditch. So, they
have been maintaining the ditch fairly well and so it is doing its job. So, what that
ditch does is it meets the requirements of the County Storm Water Runoff Manual
and it dames the Hundred Year Storm within the limits of that ditch. There is an
area a little bit upstream from this property where it exists the ditch a little bit and
floods out of the ditch somewhat, but after it goes across here which is a forward
crossing, then it does stay within the confines of the ditch pretty much. So, you are
aware, forward crossing is designed and I think there are three (3) eighteen (18)
inch pipes that were installed under this road at this location, but as a forward
crossing, it is designed in a large storm, in a Hundred Year Storm for instance, that
the flow would actually go through the culverts and over the road. So, that whole
area has been concreted and riprapped so that in the event of a storm event like
that, it would not tear out the road. So, pretty shortly after that was constructed,
you may recall there was a very large storm event and it did go over the road.
Fortunately, it did function as it was designed, but there is a lot of water going
across that area, a lot of the water in the event of a storm and if it is going over
fairly rapidly and fairly deep. We were recently out on the property again just to
look at it because there were a few, I would say pretty minor things after the big
storm event happened. There were a little bit of concern. We saw a little bit of
erosion in some areas and at our request, Kukui`ula did go back and made some
improvements. So, we wanted to check on the status of those and it looked pretty
solid, stable, and functioning properly.
One thing I will note is as I mentioned, Kukui`ula and the owner of this
property are committed to maintaining this ditch from the western bypass road
down to their property line, which is just above this road. Below that road, it would
help the Church's needs to get some maintenance accomplished adjacent to their
property where that channel was created by this project because it is all over grown
with a lot of vegetation and there are some thing that are blocking the drainage.
So, I would recommend that the Church do at least help their own cause in that
regard by cleaning that ditch out. So, I guess I would wrap up by saying what was
submitted by the engineers and reviewed by the Engineering Division, the proposal
did meet the requirements of our County's Storm Water Runoff Manual and it is
functioning as designed.
COUNCIL MEETING 86 MARCH 27, 2014
Chair Furfaro: Okay. That is the end of the presentation?
Mr. Dill: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: I will have one (1) question for you and then
turn it on to other members. So, the Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) as it
relates to the maintenance, whose office has that on file and when was the last time
it was reviewed?
Mr. Dill: The actual field work was reviewed or the
actual document?
Chair Furfaro: The document that the County requested for
an understanding of the maintenance of the area up to whatever point.
Mr. Dill: The last time it was reviewed was probably a
year ago when Councilmember Kagawa mentioned that we forward that
correspondence over.
Chair Furfaro: Actually, reviewed the document?
Mr. Dill: I beg your pardon?
Chair Furfaro: Actually, reviewed the MOU?
Mr. Dill: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Mel, I will give you the floor and then
I will go to JoAnn.
Mr. Rapozo: I do not want to waste time going into that
because I think what I heard was that it is not going to change.
Mr. Dill: We have no plans to change anything right
now.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay. Then I guess, Mr. Chair, I would ask
that we refer this to the Committee because I think we definitely need some work. I
do want to make another visit down there. I do want to go do a little bit more
research on the history because I know one thing, that is was not happening before
and it is happening now.
(Mr. Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Mr. Rapozo: Whether or not what was done was what was
submitted and approved, if it is causing a safety issue down for the residents, then
maybe that is something we have to take a look at. So, rather than belabor this
point here, I would just say that we refer it to the Committee and we can go get
more information.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. JoAnn and then Mr. Hooser.
COUNCIL MEETING 87 MARCH 27, 2014
Ms. Yukimura: I guess for Larry then, I do not know if you
have pictures of the flooding or understand what was happening there, but is it your
opinion that it is not damaging or dangerous to the Church or any residents there?
(Mr. Kagawa was noted as present.)
Mr. Dill: It is not damaging to any property. As I
mentioned, there was a significant storm event where the water did come across the
forward crossing. So, anytime it does come across, there is a lot of water coming
fast at a significant depth, but it did survive that very well. As I mentioned, there
were a few issues out there that we pointed and Kukui`ula came back and did a
little bit of reinforcing and stabilizing of what was there and our recent trip last
week, we went out to look at it, confirmed that was done and we did not see any
further signs of erosion. Anytime you have a storm or a channel with that much
water going through it, certainly it is a safety issue. So, people living in those
areas, we have streams all over this island and they need to be aware of those sorts
of things and take care.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes. When I was at the Lihu`e Business
Association meeting on the diary this morning, they were mentioning a large storm
in 2006 or something. When was this large storm or runoff? I mean, that was in
the K61oa area.
Mr. Dill: It would have been later than that. Do you
know that year? 2012 I think it was, actually.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Alright. I hear those who have raised
this issue want to have more extended discussion. So, I think I have my questions
answered at least to the extent that I understand what your understanding is of the
situation.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Hooser.
Mr. Hooser: Yes, thank you, gentlemen. If what
Mr. Abreu said is true and I believe it to be so, and no one has denied that before
this roadway was put in he did not have a flooding issue and now the roadway is
put in and he has a flooding issue. I would think that if my neighbor made
improvements on their property and after those improvements water flowed onto
my property that was not there before, my neighbor is still responsible even if they
made a good faith effort to do it the right way. So, either the County or the private
landowner, I would think, would be responsible for the actions and if that is the
case, is there something the County can do to mitigate that at this point rather than
just tell the owner, "Well, we built it according to the specifications, we thought the
specifications were okay, and it is your problem." Is there something the County
can do or whoever? The responsible party, I think, is the responsible party. So, is
there something that can be done?
Mr. Dill: Well, I respect Mr. Abreu's memory of how it
used to be back then, but we have no evidence to suggest that there is a reason for it
to be different than it was before. The caveat on that is as we know on this island,
the plantation companies when they were around, they built extensive irrigation
systems involving ditches that diverted water elsewhere over the years. So, a lot of
water was diverted from its natural course. There were ditches in this area that we
have some...I will not say plans, but on maps, there are some lines on some maps.
COUNCIL MEETING 88 MARCH 27, 2014
We went out there purposefully looking for those old ditches in the past. Now, the
plantations are not around anymore, they do not maintain those ditch systems
anymore, and so we saw the reminance of some of those ditch systems in various
states of disrepair. So, my opinion is part of what is going on is the water is not
being diverted anymore as it used to be by the plantation ditches. It is returning to
its natural course. So, that is part of this issue, I believe.
Mr. Hooser: Okay. Just one (1) more question, Chair, if I
could?
Chair Furfaro: Go ahead.
Mr. Hooser: If we put off for a second who is responsible,
what can be done in your opinion? I mean, if the County chose to say, "Okay, we
want to do something to help make this problem better," do you have any
suggestions on what could be done to make that happen?
Mr. Dill: Nothing that I am prepared to say here.
Mr. Hooser: Okay. Perhaps when we hear in the
Committee? Is it that you are not prepared or is it a legal type of thing you want to
think about it?
Mr. Dill Probably both.
Mr. Hooser: Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Kagawa.
Mr. Kagawa: I just want to kind of refresh. It was almost
exactly a year ago, more than a year ago, that we wrote the first memorandum to
you. So, that means we met with the Church members and Mr. Abreu, even prior to
that. Basically, your response has basically not changed. In the letter we also
asked you if you could help with some short-term solutions in regards to safety for
children that may be in the area and that answer, we did not get a response. So, we
asked for a possibility of erecting some type of fencing along the ditch. I too, hear
what you are saying. I understand we cannot compare pre-sugar plantation days to
now. I also know that when that road was built, the bypass, I think property
owners expected maybe some of that water to flow down with the road, but I guess
what was done was they created a culvert under the road that just lets the water
from the mountains come all the way down. So, I think they did not want that road
to create more water and it possibly did or is your answer that it was flowing down
anyway without the road?
Mr. Dill: First of all, it is a basic engineering drainage
precept that you shall not divert water from one watershed to another watershed.
Having said that, the plantations did that all the time with their irrigation ditch
system. So, when you put the road across there, the road basically goes through a
small valley and comes back out again. So, it would be wrong to try and pick up the
water out of the valley and dump it somewhere else in another valley because then
definitely, you have impacted somebody that was not being impacted before. So, by
putting a culvert at the low point of that road where the flow line of the valley was,
it keeps that water in its natural path.
COUNCIL MEETING 89 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Kagawa: I guess what is hard to image for the
residents that has been there for a long time is that we allowed a road to be built
over areas that were vegetated and would soak in some of that water, but you clear
a path for that road and knock down the vegetation and then put holes in there so
the water just comes directly through at them, they have a hard time, I think,
figuring how that is fair. I think I kind of agree with them, that if it added more
water and perhaps maybe Kukui`ula can help and divert some towards their road as
it goes down. I do not know.
Mr. Dill: I hear what you are saying, but I have a hard
time agreeing that it "added more water."
Mr. Kagawa: Okay.
Mr. Dill: Because when I look at the contours and the
topography, I just do not see how that makes sense, unless you take into account
the divergence that were done in the past by the irrigation ditches by the
plantations.
Mr. Kagawa: Well, for me, I work more from a, I think,
common sense in trying to make it fair for the local residents, but I am not an
engineer too and I should not be telling you what to do. If we can somehow, maybe
we need more than just three (3) weeks, but I think if we can go and maybe do
another site visit and perhaps I would even appreciate Larry, if I could go out with
you and we can look at it. There was an issue about the neighbor too also stock
piling things that may have been contributing to that issue. So, if we can maybe
setup a date and we can go have lunch somewhere down there.
Mr. Dill: I want to say that we are more than happy to
do this because I respect the concerns that the Abreus have about the property. You
mentioned the stockpile. There was stockpile plan that was part of the proposal. It
was done by Kukui`ula and the way they did the stockpile was a little different. I
am not sure that it impacted the drainage that much, but we are working on them
to confirm that. If it did, then we are going to have them revise that. So, we are
going to make sure that it taken care of properly.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you, Larry. Chair, my
recommendation is that we go for five (5) weeks maybe on a referral to Committee.
Chair Furfaro: So, maybe before April 16th and if we can
give some community members that have interest, maybe you visit the site by
April 16th and then two (2) weeks after that, have it in the Committee?
Mr. Kagawa: I will go out on a Saturday if I have to, but
we will find a way to get it done before five (5) weeks.
Chair Furfaro: What is the date just for this point after two
(2) weeks past the 16th of April?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: That would be the Committee Meeting of
May 7th.
Chair Furfaro: May 7th? Okay. Because we are in
Committee Meeting and we do not have one at the end of May. Mr. Hooser.
COUNCIL MEETING 90 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Hooser: If I could just ask that the Director that
when you come back, if you could have some idea within your legal authority and
within the whole liability issue, some perhaps ideas or suggestions on what might
be done to resolve the issue and at the minimum, it would be helpful to me if I had
some idea of the scale of the problem. Is this a five thousand dollars ($5,000)
problem or is this a five hundred thousand dollars ($500,000) problem? That kind
of thing. If somebody wants to fix it, about what are we looking at? Thank you.
Mr. Dill: I will definitely endeavor to do that, come
back with a proposal for a reasonable solution for this. If the issue is the lack of
maintenance and the disrepair of the irrigation ditches that used to carry water
elsewhere, I do not know that if restoration of that irrigation ditch system is the
answer. I do not know if that is a reasonable solution that I can come back with. I
do not know sitting here today, what a potential "reasonable" solution is.
Mr. Kagawa mentioned the issue of the fence which would be a strict safety
measure to help things and that could be something that could be a solution or a
part of a solution perhaps that we can certainly look at.
Chair Furfaro: So, if I heard the correct Larry, the approach
and when we get back on May 7th if that is the date, we are going to look at if we
have to put up some safety fencing on safety issues that is part of an estimate and
then of course the actual flooding may be a lot more challenging to figure out, but
two (2) parts to this?
Mr. Dill: I would also mention again, I think that the
ditch, as it goes by the house, it needs to be maintained. It is all totally overgrown
right now. That would help their own cause.
Chair Furfaro: Through an inspection, if that occurs, then
certainly that is something that can come out of Public Works as a notice to the
property owner.
Mr. Dill: Okay.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo, did you have something? No?
Mr. Rapozo: No questions. Just a short comment.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Well, I am going to say at this point,
that we are looking for being back on the agenda in the Committee of Public Works /
Park & Recreation by May 7th and sometime before that, to be inclusive with
Mr. Abreu to be able to do an actual site inspection under the coordination of the
Public Works / Parks & Recreation Chairman, Mr. Kagawa. Is that acceptable to
you?
Mr. Dill: Absolutely.
Chair Furfaro: You can concur.
Mr. Moule: Me?
Chair Furfaro: Yes, you.
COUNCIL MEETING 91 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Moule: Yes, that is also acceptable to me, yes.
Sorry.
Chair Furfaro: I would like to see if we have anymore
testimony and if not, I am looking for a motion.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Mr. Chock moved to refer C 2014-89 to the May 7, 2014 Public Works / Parks
& Recreation Committee Meeting, seconded by Mr. Kagawa.
Chair Furfaro: Okay, and it is understood that there will be
a visit it the property before then. I have a motion and a second. Is there anyone
else in the audience that wants to speak that had not spoken? If not, this item is
going to be back on the agenda in the Committee on May 7th. You come up, but I
have told everybody toady they can only speak once because we are so backlogged.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
Mr. Abreu: Also, at that time...
Chair Furfaro: Sit and relax, but just make a short
statement.
Mr. Abreu: The thing is again, our concern is the flow of
the water. Again, that has to be looked into. The direction, if that was the actual
direction because to me, a simple test of this is just to plug up the culvert on the
other side of the road and you see where the water would go. It would not come to
our side. It would either go back to that way or filter through the property or go
back across the road, but never did come to us. That is my main concern through
all of this. Sure, the thing is working the way it is supposed to work, but is it in the
right direction? That is my question.
Chair Furfaro: I think after that site inspection, they will
have a better evaluation to share with us after that. Could you please make sure
we have your phone number so that Mr. Kagawa can be in touch with you?
Mr. Abreu: Yes, I am sure he has it, but I will give it
again.
Chair Furfaro: Great. Thank you.
Mr. Abreu: Thank you.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: Okay, we have a motion. There is no one
else that wants to testify on this item. We have a motion as made on the referral
for May 7th, any further discussion? Mr. Rapozo.
Mr. Rapozo: Yes. I just would encourage all of the
members to go down and take a look at the area because it is very difficult when
COUNCIL MEETING 92 MARCH 27, 2014
you look at the sheet, very difficult if you look at photos. I think if you go down and
take a look at the culvert, I think it is much more revealing to look at it that way.
The other concern that I have is like Ross talked about, that the site visit Ross and I
did was over a year ago and there was some safety issues. I heard Larry mention
safety issues. It is a safety issue. It is not a convenience issue. It is not the fact
that these people do not want the water running over the road. It is the fact that
there are so many, what I see, as some serious safety issues with the children in the
area playing in the culvert and getting stuck in that culvert. It is open. It is totally
accessible. The suggestion to fence up that area was made again, over a year ago
and that needs to be done. Something needs to be done to protect it, while we are
debating whose fault or who is going to fix it or what, we need to protect hat area so
that kids do not go in those culverts because we all know how fast the water can
come down. It often times comes without warning and I do not want to be here
knowing that we could have done something and we did not. I had assumed...again,
never assume, but I had assumed that those safety measures were taken between
the time we had gone down there and today. So, I would just maybe send over a
formal request that I do not care who does it. I do not care if Kukui`ula does it. If
nobody does it, then the County has to do it. We have to protect the kids in that
area and deal with the water issue later, but I think primarily, we have to make
sure no kid gets hurt down there. I know the volume of water, I know that
regardless of the storms that we have had in the last five (5) years, we have not
have had a Hundred Year Storm. It has not been a Hundred Year Storm. So, I do
not know if the road has to be elevated with larger culverts to allow for more water
flow so it does not crawl over, if it is as simple as cleaning out the ditch, the
landowner. We can require them to do that. As the County, we can require them to
do it or we go in and clean it and charge them, bill them. We just cannot pretend it
does not exist though. I will be heading down there again with Ross in the near
future to take some pictures and see if we can get this thing resolved.
Chair Furfaro: If you can report back to the Committee, but
I think we all take your recommendation from now until May 7th, it would not hurt
for us to go down there individually. So, we have a motion, a second. Any further
discussion?
The motion to refer C 2014-89 to the May 7, 2014 Public Works / Parks &
Recreation Committee Meeting was then put, and unanimously carried.
Chair Furfaro: Please so note for a future calendar.
May 7th, Russell.
Mr. Rapozo: Mr. Chair?
Chair Furfaro: Yes.
Mr. Rapozo: If I may? I have a request and I do not do
this often, but I am going to ask that we take an item out of order today.
Mr. Wilson has been here since this morning and he would like to testify on Bill
No. 2532, which is a Bill for Second Reading. He does have a flight to catch back to
O`ahu. So, if there are no objections, if we could at least take his testimony so that
he can leave, I would appreciate it.
Chair Furfaro: I have no problems with that.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING 93 MARCH 27, 2014
Chair Furfaro: Jade, did you so note the Bill that we want to
read? This is second reading. Could we read that into the record, please, and then
we will allow Mr. Wilson to give testimony?
There being no objections, Bill No. 2532 was taken out of order.
BILL FOR SECOND READING:
Bill No. 2532 — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
ORDINANCE NO. B-2013-754, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO THE CAPITAL
BUDGET OF THE COUNTY OF KAUAI, STATE OF HAWAII, FOR THE FISCAL
YEAR JULY 1, 2013 THROUGH JUNE 30, 2014, BY REVISING THE AMOUNTS
ESTIMATED IN THE BOND FUND — CIP AND SPECIAL TRUST FUND — CIP
FOR PARKS & PLAYGROUNDS (Black Pot Condemnation Balance - $1,259,905)
Mr. Bynum moved to adopt Bill No. 2532 on second and final reading, and that is be
transmitted to the Mayor for his approval, seconded by Ms. Yukimura.
Chair Furfaro: There is a motion to approve and a second. Is
there anyone in the audience that wishes to testify?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
Chair Furfaro: You can come up now, Mr. Wilson.
RICHARD WILSON: Mr. Chair and members of the Council, thank
you again. I am really here to testify about the Bill, not in opposition to it, but more of
a procedural nature. It is my understanding that you folks have been led to believe
that this is some sort of a victory for the County of Kaua`i and that when you look at
the fees that have been spent, this is the last, this case is done, there is nothing
further that is going to go on, and I am really here to set the record straight because it
is not true. The real facts of this case are based on the last offer from the County and
the jury awarded Mr. Sheehan one million dollars ($1,000,000) more. We have been
taking about mediation. We have been talking about negotiations. It was no
negotiation. This is the bottom line. The jury order one million dollars ($1,000,000).
To get to that point, there was five hundred thousand dollars ($500,000) in attorney's
fees. There is two hundred fifty thousand dollars ($250,000) of interest, which is still
accruing which has not been paid. We will be appealing several issues by the Circuit
Court. I am very confident there will be another award of interest in excess of two
hundred fifty thousand dollars ($250,000) because the calculations were wrong. If the
Intermediate Court of Appeals agrees with our entire or all the issues of error, the
County could be facing of upwards of millions of dollars of exposure. Those are the
facts. So, to get to this Bill, it cost another almost one million dollars ($1,000,000) in
attorney's fees, costs, and interest. Members of the Council, if that is a victory, I do
not know what a defeat is for you folk. It did not have to be that way. I have been
coming here now, I think this is the fifth time this year and we have been taking
about mediation. We have been talking about let us sit down. Let us stop the outside
Counsel. Let us stop the bleeding. If you have somebody who is reasonable, maybe we
disagree, but somebody serious enough to sue this County, it would behoove you folks
to sit down and talk to that person. Chair Furfaro, I cannot remember if it was the
last time I was here or the time before, you seemed to have a very strong opinion
about that makes sense. We should talk before we run off to Court. There are four (4)
pending matters between Mr. Sheehan and the County. They are in Federal Court,
they are in State Court, and they are on appeal. I will be filing a fifth action as early
as next week. I spoke with Mr. Sheehan and we had a long discussion. His point was,
COUNCIL MEETING 94 MARCH 27, 2014
well, you know what Rich, if the Council is that...not adamant, but that interested in
mediation, why do you not talk to the County Attorneys and say, "All matters, the four
(4) cases that are already in the court system, the fifth one we are going to file, no
conditions, let us sit down and talk about it." So, I made the request. Do you know
what you County Attorney's response was? No. We are not going to mediate with
you. No. I did not make any preconditions, all matters. Let us talk about it. Bring in
a retired neutral, a Judge. We have talked about that before, and the answer was no.
I guess why I am here is sure, pay Mr. Sheehan the money, but this is a systemic
problem and the County Attorney continues to have you folks write checks and it is
troubling for me because as you folks know, I am from Kaua`i.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Three (3) minutes.
Mr. Wilson: My family lives on Kaua`i and there has to be
some sort of change in the culture or the atmosphere at the County Attorney's Office
because that one million dollars ($1,000,000), it did not have to be spent. When we
were here three (3) years ago, when the Council was down at Hale Kaua`i. Do not sue
us. I now you folks get advice from the County Attorney's Office and Mr. Chair, it is
just a shame that that money did not have to be spent. Thank you for taking me out
of order. I really, really appreciate it. It is always nice to come home. Thank you very
much, Mr. Chair and members of the Council.
Chair Furfaro: You have a question? My. Bynum has a
question.
Mr. Wilson: Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: Mr. Wilson, under what circumstances does
the County Attorney spend money or settle cases without authorization from this
body?
Mr. Wilson: Well, I could go into a lot of detail on how it
seems there is a pattern in practice where you folks are not being updated on budgets
by...
Mr. Bynum: Mr. Wilson, the question is, under what legal
circumstances does the County Attorney make decisions to spend County money that
is not authorized by this body?
Mr. Wilson: For example, not mediating with litigants
where you would not have to spend money because obviously you folks have the purse
strings, but it seems to me that it is a systemic issue where the County Attorney
continues to come to you for money, putting you in a position where you have no
choice. To me, sure, the underlying decision is yours to make, but you are with very
few options. When you are already going down a litigation standpoint and you have
been advised to continue to litigate as opposed to mediate.
Mr. Bynum: So, the County Attorney cannot settle a case.
They cannot decide. You said the County Attorney has you spending this money.
They can only ask us to spend money. Is that not correct?
Mr. Wilson: That is not correct and I do not want to talk
about your lawsuit.
COUNCIL MEETING 95 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Bynum: Okay.
Mr. Wilson: I do not want to go down that road.
Mr. Bynum: Neither do I.
Mr. Wilson: You are forcing me to...in terms of answering
that question, you are forcing me to...
Mr. Bynum: I am done.
Mr. Wilson: ...go down your road.
Mr. Bynum: You have already answered my question. I
am done.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo has a question for you.
Mr. Wilson: Yes.
Mr. Rapozo: When you testified that you have...let me just
see if I have this right. You have one (1) Federal, one (1) State, two (2) cases you said
in mediation right now?
Mr. Wilson: No, they are on appeal.
Mr. Rapozo: Oh, on appeal. I am sorry.
Mr. Wilson: And I will be filing a fifth as early as next
week.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay. So, you said that you had made a
request to the County Attorney's Office to mediate potentially all?
Mr. Wilson: All of it.
Mr. Rapozo: All four (4) or you would not file the fifth?
Mr. Wilson: All four (4), I would not file the fifth, and let
us resolve it all. By the way, my only other requirement, I should say my one (1)
precondition was to have one (1) of you folks or a Committee present during mediation
so you can see for yourselves as to what the process is, what the positions are, and it is
not filtered through the County Attorney's Office.
Mr. Rapozo: When was that request to mediate or your
offer to mediate made?
Mr. Wilson: Within the last two (2) weeks. If you would
like, I can send you the correspondence to the County Attorney's Office.
Mr. Rapozo: That would help. I am not so sure how that is
going to affect the vote today, but that would definitely help. When was the...I am
assuming you testified that the County Attorney said, "No."
COUNCIL MEETING 96 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Wilson: That is correct.
Mr. Rapozo: When was that?
Mr. Wilson: Earlier this week.
Mr. Rapozo: Early this week?
Mr. Wilson: Yes.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay. I am not sure, and maybe the Chair
received some communication from the County Attorney's Office. I did not. So, it
would help me if you send me whatever you have.
Mr. Wilson: I will give you the correspondence.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: If you are going to send it to Mr. Rapozo, you
might was well send it to me as well.
Mr. Wilson: I will do that, Chair.
Chair Furfaro: I want to make sure you are really clear on
my statement. So many times I sit here and people say, well, you said this and...in
my professional career, I have sat through mediations with Unions, with owners, and
with construction companies. I do not need to go to one over here and learn how to
walk. When it comes to understanding audits, I have not only been the challenged
person for the ownership representative of audits with management companies, but I
have gone through it enough times that I know the moving parts, but I want to tell
you, you are correct. Going forward, mediation is always good and this Money Bill to
acquire Black Pot Beach Park was my Money Bill in 2003. My Bill. My daughter's
grandfather was the only registered Coast Guard Captain for the Hanalei estuary in
Captain Henry Gomes. It means a lot to me. I have talked to Mike many times, but
the opportunity initially to enter into some agreement whatever happened, did not
and now we are at this point where to me, we have come a long way and it is
unfortunate, but there is a lesson here. It is always good to exchange ideas and
discussion. I just think we are a little too far and I need to share that with you
Mr. Wilson.
Mr. Wilson: Well, Mr. Chair, with respect to this matter
because the Money Bill is front of you folks, I understand, but there are other pending
issues. The one thing I disagree in my experience as a litigator for twenty-three (23)
years, there is never inappropriate or too late to talk. It is always good to talk because
litigation as you folks know, is so incredibly expensive. When you have somebody on
the other side, I would like to think I am reasonable and most people probably think
that I am, but when we are offering no conditions to really involve you folks into it, I
would think that would be a golden opportunity to stop the bleeding, let us talk about
it, and you have done it in the past. Even if it does not resolve matters, what it does is
it gets the parties closer to an understanding and maybe you can narrow the issues.
There are no guarantees as well know and that is all we wanted. It is just
unfortunate, but I appreciate the time again, Mr. Chair and members of the Council.
Thank you very much.
COUNCIL MEETING 97 MARCH 27, 2014
Chair Furfaro: One (1) more.
Mr. Wilson: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Councilmember Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: So, is there any reason why passing this Bill
before us will prevent mediation?
Mr. Wilson: No, not at all.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much for being here.
Mr. Wilson: Thank you very much.
Mr. Rapozo: I guess, one (1) more real quick.
Chair Furfaro: Oh, excuse me.
Mr. Rapozo: So, I guess the offer is still there to talk?
Mr. Wilson: Absolutely.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: And I want to reconfirm, you are going to send
the material to myself and Mr. Rapozo?
Mr. Wilson: I will be back in the office tomorrow. In fact,
Mr. Chair, if would like I can send it to all members of the Council.
Chair Furfaro: I would appreciate it if you would let it come
into my office so that I can distribute it.
Mr. Wilson: Okay, I will give you the copies.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Mr. Hooser.
Mr. Hooser: Yes. Just to be clear, you made an offer to the
County Attorney to mediate outstanding issues?
Mr. Wilson: Correct.
Mr. Hooser: And that was in writing?
Mr. Wilson: Yes.
Mr. Hooser: And the response from the County Attorney,
was that in writing or was the verbal?
Mr. Wilson: Verbal. Actually, I believe it was verbal and it
was confirmed in an E-mail saying, "You are right, the answer is no."
COUNCIL MEETING 98 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Hooser: And there was not an answer, "I need to talk
to the Council or make me an offer and then we will talk about it?" It was just "no."
Mr. Wilson: I think it came from the County Attorney
himself, "No."
Mr. Hooser: Okay. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you again.
Mr. Wilson: Thank you again.
There being no further public testimony, the meeting was called back to order,
and proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: We need to finish our business on this item,
but I want to let you know that our Housing Agency needed to leave on a First
Reading Bill and I have excused him. He is traveling and since it is only a First
Reading Bill, when we get to that I hope you understand I made that decision that he
could leave. Jade, we are going to move on a vote on this item right now. Before that,
any further discussion? Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: I always appreciate any testimony before this
Council, but I am also really comforted by the fact that there is a public record of our
proceedings that people can if they choose to take the time to find out about the
accuracy of the public testimony we receive. I will just make one (1) comment. Yes,
let us mediate now that I am in appeal because you have won all of your motions. So,
it is like you mediate at the beginning of something, not at the end of something. We
are bringing this to an end unless the appeals are successful. Just on the face of it,
you mediate after you have won when you are in appeal? It does not make any sense
to me. So, thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Members, we had a speaker for this item who
had signed up for Bill No. 2532. I apologize. Besides Mr. Wilson, Shaylene had signed
up. Shaylene, I am going to go back to suspend the rules and give you three (3)
minutes.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
SHAYLENE ISERI: Good afternoon Council Chair, Vice Chair
Chock, and members of the Council. One million two hundred five thousand dollars
($1,250,000) is an exorbitant amount of money that is still unclear for many members
of the public what it is being spent for, was it really necessary for it to have been
spent, and how many more moneys will be spent in this matter and related matters.
The problem is especially amplified because most of the discussions are done in
Executive Sessions and it appears certain information about lawsuits are discussed in
open session that only support a position instead of giving the public the totality of the
information so that the constituents can make informed decisions. I would ask that
the Council take a proactive approach to being fiscally responsible in bringing a
resolution to this issue that has been ongoing for decades. How much have we spent
on Special Counsel to defend this lawsuit? Why are we hiring Special Counsel if we
have numerous amounts of County Attorneys? Are they inexperienced? Are there
conflicts? How many more moneys are expected to be spent? What has been the
barrier to resolving this case and related cases? How much effort has been exerted to
COUNCIL MEETING 99 MARCH 27, 2014
seek a resolution other than trial? There are in my opinion, many opportunities for
this Council to provide a briefing to the public of the status of these lawsuits, yet the
public is kept in the dark under the cloak of Executive Sessions. For example, if this
was a jury trial case as it seems to have been as it was discussed, this is public and the
Council has a duty, I believe, as our representatives in this case and others to provide
the dates and results of the motions filed and the jury verdicts if that was the result of
the case. Executive Sessions leave a bad impression in the public's mind and the
volume of Executive Sessions negatively impact the confidence that the people have in
our representatives. Let us bring more openness and transparency to the community
and try to resolve these with the public's interest in mind. Thank you.
Mr. Trask: Aloha Chair and members of the Council,
Second Deputy County Attorney, Mauna Kea Trask. I apologize for not having a tie at
this time. I was going to check on something else.
Chair Furfaro: You are forgiven. It is aloha Thursday.
Mr. Trask: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: I want to make sure that my reconciliation of
this, is this is not more money that is being spent. This is money that is being
returned to the County and being transferred into the Parks and Recreation account.
Mr. Trask: Yes, Chair. What this is, is this represents
the last amount of money that is owed to Mr. Sheehan in order to finalize the
purchase of the property. One million three thousand dollars ($1,003,000) of this
money is part of the original five million eight hundred ninety thousand dollars
($5,890,000) that was put into the Clerk of the Court for the motion for possessing
pending litigation. We got an updated appraisal and that number was brought down,
we took the money back, put it in another account, and then we need the Money Bill to
put it back and to pay out. There is a difference. Three hundred thousand dollars
($300,000) of the money that was taken by the County was put in the General Fund to
satisfy Mr. Sheehan's back taxes. So, that is where the Parks Fund money kicks in.
Also, too, regarding the statements made by Mr. Wilson regarding settlement.
We did discuss. We met a couple weeks ago regarding another matter with
Mr. Sheehan, talking about discovery issues and the proposal for mediation came up.
I took it to the office and discussed it with Mr. Castillo. I wrote an E-mail Mr. Wilson
earlier this week saying I am going to be getting back to you with a written letter
regarding your proposal and you can expect it by the end of the week. I am almost
done drafting that letter. It should go out by tomorrow. He asked, "Well, basically is
it yes or no?" My recollection is that I wrote in the E-mail, "Well, it is not no." Of
course I cannot say it is yes, but I just talked to him about it and he said, "No, you said
no." So, if I said that I am going to have to correct that E-mail. It is not no. I am
working on that letter because, and you will see why, but again, as was stated earlier
we are interested in mediating. Mr. Bynum makes a good point, but given that it is
likely to appeal, we are willing to sit down. We thought in essence, we would like to
discuss a more detailed proposal to bring to you to make that discussion and have that
discussion at a later date and whether or not to approve. So, we are going to speak
and speak further, but for various reasons, it was recommended that we get more
specific. So, that is essentially the letter that I am going to send to him tomorrow.
Chair Furfaro: My question to you as the Administrator of
the Council, myself, is it your intention to copy me on that letter?
COUNCIL MEETING 100 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Trask: Well, actually I did not think about that. I
was going to have the discussion with Mr. Wilson first and then when it is right to
bring to you, I was going to bring it to you.
Chair Furfaro: When the appropriate time comes, you do plan
to copy me so that I can inform the Council?
Mr. Trask: Definitely. There is just issues relating
to...yes, I can do that and we will do that.
Chair Furfaro: I am requesting that.
Mr. Trask: Then I will definitely do it, Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Al, did you want to say
something?
ALFRED B. CASTILLO, JR., County Attorney: Yes. Council Chair
and Councilmembers, good afternoon. Al Castillo, County Attorney. I do not want to
cast a shadow or a cloud over what is going on with the acquisition of Black Pot Beach
Park because it is a good thing for the community. Months and months ago when
Mr. Wilson was here or Mr. Sheehan, they did talk about coming to the table and we
did go to the table and the record will show exactly how genuine they were way back
then and how genuine we were. Now, what is really happening here is and the people
out there should know. When you want to come to the table, come to the table with
facts and figures. With the facts and figures what we can do is what I told Mauna
Kea, is with the facts and figures, genuine facts and figures, then and only then we
can come to the Council and present it to the Council. We do not want to waste time
with just idle talk, and idle chat. We want facts and figures and we want to resolve it
as much as anybody else. Yes, reasonable. We want to be reasonable, but we want
facts and figures. That is all that I want you folks to know.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo has a question for you.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, you think it is okay
to say "no" to an offer to mediate without having a...even if it is a non-genuine. I
think once you say "no," it is no versus coming here and coming to us and say in
Executive Session, "We have a non-genuine request to..." versus because I think that
is where for me anyway, we are running into issues. These things, we do not know.
The Council does not know and yet, I think we should.
Mr. Castillo: Well, Councilmember Rapozo, we have lived
with this case for months and we have established a level of relationship with the
other side. We will not waste the Council's time. If there is a genuine offer that we
should bring, then we will bring it. We do not want to waste your time. If you feel like
we should come to you...it is our responsibility as your attorneys if there is an offer.
Yes, then we come, but we need to know what that offer is. At his point in time, we do
not know what the offer is.
Mr. Rapozo: Well, it is hard for me because I have not seen
the E-mail or the letter that was sent. So, I guess once I see that, it might be easier to
judge, but I guess...
COUNCIL MEETING 101 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Castillo: Judge...excuse me. Yes, but my information
was we did not have any information to judge.
Mr. Rapozo: Well, I do not know what was provided. That
is my point. I would have felt much better if we had gone in there and you tell us
what was not genuine and that in fact let the Council decide whether or not we are
going to because at the end of the day, it is the people's money. It is the public's
money. It is not your money. It is not our money. So, I think it would be best for
everybody that if there is and again, that is why we rely on your expertise to tell us if
it is genuine or not, if you think we should go or not, but I do not think that you should
be making the decision to not mediate without talking to us first. That is all I am
saying.
Mr. Castillo: I need to correct that Councilmember Rapozo
because we are not making that decision not to mediate. We need information on a
basis for me to contact the Council Chair to ask for agenda time because we have
information, genuine information to give to the Council. We have not reached that
point.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. That is understood at this point.
Mr. Castillo: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: I want to make sure you also understand this.
You are our attorneys and there is a sense of urgency here. I have been on the Council
for twelve (12) years. I have had opposing attorneys walk in and want to talk to me
directly. I have told them kindly to leave my office. They speak to me through my
attorney. So, if there is anything over here that is going on with this dialogue, is we
are now all aware of it, Mr. Rapozo has requested and I have piggy backed on that to
get Mr. Wilson's correspondence, and whatever you send please make sure that we are
copied.
Mr. Trask: I would just like to...I will speak with
Mr. Wilson about this in a minute, but given that there is pending litigation, there is
an issue of when clients are represented and attorneys speak to represented parties,
but then there is also an extra layer of you are the County Council so there is some
different aspects to it because you are a public body, people have the right to speak at
public forums. So, I will speak to Mr. Wilson about that, but per what Mr. Castillo
said, we still are or obviously there is a generally offer out there. I wanted to get more
specifics and I will speak to Mr. Wilson if we can work that out, then we can avoid
further communications that do not involve just the attorneys. We still need to talk
about that.
Chair Furfaro: Understood. I just want to let you know, I
understand. When you have opposing attorneys and there is litigation, I do not talk to
them, so that you know. That is not the appropriate practice, but Mr. Rapozo has
made the request, Mr. Wilson is going to fulfill it, and now you are aware of it. You
still have the floor.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay. I guess Mauna Kea, it is three (3)
weeks, four (4) weeks, five (5) weeks ago I asked a question about this case because
Mr. Sheehan had come up and said that the case was far from over. Then I called up
Mr. Castillo and he said that as far as he knew, the case was over. Then, I am hearing
that you have pending cases in Federal Court, State Court, and you have two (2)
appeals. I do not know if you are inferring or you folks are inferring that I should not
COUNCIL MEETING 102 MARCH 27, 2014
be talking to Mr. Wilson or I should not be talking to anyone. He came up to testify
here. I wish I had spoken to him before so I could have gotten the information that I
do not have today. Maybe you have it. I do not know if you have the...
Mr. Trask: I do have the E-mails and actually, again, my
recollection was basically we are not saying no at this point and I was going to write a
letter to him for more clarification. That is kind of...I am not insinuating that it is
improper to speak to you again, because you are Council, but it is complex and I
wanted to have that discussion with Mr. Wilson to iron out those generalities so that
we can bring forth to you the proposal. Like Mr. Castillo said, if there is one, if we can
come to terms with the proposal. I apologize it is taking a little while. I am currently
working on responses regarding another Money Bill of five hundred thousand dollars
($500,000) and going through all of that. So, it is taking me some time to juggle some
things, but I do intend to get the letter to him tomorrow and he basically knows what
it is about now. I just want to say that if we can have some time to work this out and
bring to you what it is, then that would be appropriate.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay. I guess like I said, when I see the
E-mail, I will be able to...this is how I look at it though because you are my attorney,
your office is my attorney. Let us say I went and got arrested, I got charged and I
have an attorney and the prosecutor calls my attorney and says, "Hey, we have a deal
for you. Do you want to talk about this deal" and my attorney says, "No." Never
called me, just said, "No, I do not think it is in the best interest of my clients," I would
fire you if I found out that is what happened. Do you know what I am trying to say?
So, when you have these developments whether it is genuine or not in your opinion,
we are the client and I guess I am feeling that I am not a client. I am feeling like the
County Attorneys are going to do what they do and they are just going to tell us what
the result is. That is where I am having a difficult time Mauna Kea. I hope you can
appreciate that because I do look at you as our private attorney, personal attorney,
that should be communicating with us, at least with the Chair anyway.
Mr. Trask: Yes, and we are having that discussion with
Mr. Wilson now with that intent.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay, and I appreciate that. Thank you.
Mr. Trask: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you, Mel.
Mr. Castillo: Council Chair?
Chair Furfaro: Yes.
Mr. Castillo: Can I correct a statement that was made on
the floor?
Chair Furfaro: If it needs to be corrected, this is the place to
do it because this is the record.
Mr. Castillo: Thank you. This is the second time that I
need to correct Councilmember Rapozo. On this subject matter, I did not tell him, "As
far as I knew the case was over." When I came up here, what I did say was, "Mauna
Kea had that case, there is a time for appeal, and I do not know if that time had
COUNCIL MEETING 103 MARCH 27, 2014
expired." I did not ever say that the case is over because I did not have that
information.
Chair Furfaro: That is your clarification on the matter.
Mauna Kea, I guess you can see all the urgency we have right now to make sure you
copy us on what is transpiring between attorneys.
Mr. Trask: I will.
Chair Furfaro: You will? Is that what I heard?
Mr. Trask: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Yes, Mr. Hooser?
Mr. Hooser: Just a brief...it seems to get more confusing as
the conversation goes on. So, Mr. Wilson pretty clearly sat here and said he made an
offer to mediate and the County Attorney said, "No." Now, Mr. Trask, you said you
sent an E-mail to Mr. Wilson saying, "I am not saying no." So, do I have my facts
correct?
Mr. Trask: The original proposal was an oral proposal by
Mr. Wilson when we were discussing another matter. I said, "Okay, send me
something in writing more specific so I can show, essentially Al." Then I talked with
Al about it and he said, "Look, you need more specifics" and I took some notes. You
need a, b, c, and d. I believe it was over the Prince Kuhio holiday, I E-mailed
Mr. Wilson. I said, "Hey, just so you know and keep you in the loop, I am going to be
drafting a letter. I will be sending to you a written regarding some things that we
discussed and how to deal with the situation." So, he said, "Okay, yes or no, basically."
Then what I wrote to him was...well, how do you answer that question? So, I said,
"Well, it is not no." He said, "Look at your E-mail again, you said no." So, I am going
to go look at that E-mail again, but what I meant to write was, "It is not no" because of
course, I am working on drafting a letter right now. So, if I made that mistake in the
E-mail, that is my fault. That is not Al's fault because he did not say, "No." It is get a
letter more specific. So, that is what I am working on right now.
Mr. Hooser: Okay. So, you did not intend to say "no," but
you may have said no and you are going to check on it?
Mr. Trask: I am going to check, but I mean to say, "Not
no" because again, I am writing a letter currently.
Mr. Hooser: Okay, thank you.
Chair Furfaro: I just want to clarify something over here. I
mean, in my life in Senior Management and I know between attorneys you folks play
a lot of hardball and then all of a sudden we find ourselves over here needing to
interpret how you folks negotiate. Your responsibility is to this Council, bringing fair,
objective, and reasonable offers to us. How you get to that negotiation is why you
went to law school. Okay? Now, let us move on. We expect to hear from everybody
and again, I do not like opposing attorneys coming in and talking directly to me. That
is not good practice. They go through my attorney and in this case, you are our
attorneys. I want to give Mr. Wilson another three (3) minutes just simply because
COUNCIL MEETING 104 MARCH 27, 2014
there has been a lot of dialogue over there that he needs to say something and that is
it.
Mr. Wilson: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Well, if what I am
hearing, is it not a no, it is a maybe yes, then that is great news. If that is what they
meant by it, that is great. On this matter about more specifics, because in the E-mail,
I went over the four (4) pending cases as well as the one we are going to file, a
mediation is...I do not mean to be condescending or pejorative, it is not rocket science.
This is an issue. The County Attorneys who represent you folks know the cases, they
know what the issues are. It does not require some party to go and basically do a
settlement conference statement outlining every single exposure, defense, claim, and
odds. Here is the issue, we are going to mediate it. That is what the...I am preaching
to the choir here, Mr. Chair, because you have done it before. For the other folks who
have not done it, that is why you go to the mediator and you discuss. Al says that we
have a relationship. I do not have a relationship with Mr. Castillo. I have one with
Mauna Kea. The problem is a lot of decision making is not made by Mauna Kea. It
goes through Mr. Castillo, which I do not have a relationship with for whatever
reason, but you do not need to go into the umpteenth detail for another party to agree
to sit down and talk. That is all this is and if the County's position now is sure, maybe
there is some other information. We are not sure, but we do not do it as much as you
do. If you want to mediate, that is terrific and if that is what the County Attorneys
are saying, then great. I look forward to getting Mauna Kea's letter. I hope we get to
mediate. The only request that I would make again, is that a member of this Council
participate. Thank you very much for the extra time, Mr. Chair.
Chair Furfaro: I do want to tell you one other thing here.
Mr. Wilson: Yes, sir?
Chair Furfaro: There are two (2) members of the choir and
the other one over here sits at the end of the table. His name is Mr. Kagawa. We both
played a lot of baseball in our time.
Mr. Wilson: Me too.
Chair Furfaro: And we know that there are games within the
game within the game. Okay? What I want that comes to me through my attorney is
the real score card. Who got ahead, who got how many balls and strikes, and so forth?
So, I just want to make sure that you understand.
Mr. Wilson: Oh, I fully understand.
Chair Furfaro: I am watching every moving part of this game
and...
Mr. Wilson: I fully understand.
Chair Furfaro: Very good.
Mr. Wilson: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded
as follows:
COUNCIL MEETING 105 MARCH 27, 2014
Chair Furfaro: Okay. I think we are at a point, we have to
take a caption break. Am I correct? I think we actually went over a little bit of extra
time. So, I am going to call for a caption break and we will come back for discussion.
Ten (10) minute caption break. Be back at 5:35 p.m.
There being no objections, the Council recessed at 5:25 p.m.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order at 5:40 p.m.,
and proceeded as follows:
(Mr. Rapozo was noted as excused.)
Chair Furfaro: We are back from our recess and I do want you
to know accordingly, I had Mauna Kea's E-mail copied to all of you folks. If you can
please note in all fairness, his E-mail starts off by saying, "It is not a no." Okay? In
all fairness.
Ms. Yukimura: That is pretty clear.
Chair Furfaro: So, there is another interpretation there, but
anyway, I needed to get that cleared. Now, we need to vote on this item here.
Mr. Kagawa: Discussion?
Ms. Yukimura: Discussion.
Chair Furfaro: And have discussion. Do I have a motion?
Okay. I will go with Mr. Bynum, then Mr. Kagawa, and then JoAnn. Mr. Bynum, you
have the floor.
Mr. Bynum: I just want to expand a little bit of what I said
earlier when I thought we were in discussion. I am comforted that there is a public
record and I am very concerned about some precedence that have been said at this
Council over the last few months. I do not know what to do about it necessarily, but
things have changed. I have been on this Council for nine (9) or ten (10) years. I do
not remember litigants coming up and testifying in the middle of a lawsuit. I do not
remember citizens making allegations of corruption and mismanagement based on
personnel matters that they have legally, no authority to know the details of, get
blamed for doing things that you did not even initiate, that you are responding
because of your responsibility. To have the dialogue we had today about an E-mail
that was sent yesterday or not and the minutia between our attorneys I agree with the
Chair. I do not talk with litigants when we are in cases. I know what those
boundaries are. So, this thing of people coming up here and saying these rhetorical
things when we cannot defend ourselves because we are acting responsibly by keeping
the confidentialities that we are legally responsible for. So, you have all of these
things said and cannot defend yourself, you cannot defend, you cannot even correct the
record. Now, we had the County Attorney up here today doing something
unprecedented that I applaud. He corrected the record because I have watched our
County Attorney. I have heard incredible things said about our Mayor, about our
County Attorney, about all of these allegations, and it is not appropriate to respond.
This, I do not know what to do about it, but this is not right. We should not be having
this kind of dialogue and this kind of back and forth about this E-mail. Unbelievable.
These are bad precedence and so I just wanted to say that out loud. Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING 106 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you, Chair. The word "genuine" was
used a lot in this short discussion. So, I looked it up on the Webster Dictionary and it
says, "actual, real, or true; not false or fake; sincere and honest." In this world of
lawsuits and litigation, it is very difficult to find genuine. I think what the
attorneys try to do is they try to get whatever they can. So, try and be as
disingenuous as they can because that leads to a better payoff for their client. So, I
really think any time that we have a litigant who wants to discuss mediation, I
think we need to listen and I am not a big fan of mediation as you have seen in
recent months, but I do believe it is our obligation and the County Attorney's
obligation to listen to any offer to mediate. I think we can decide after we hear
what the offer is whether we feel it is genuine or not genuine, but if somebody offers
to settle a lawsuit against us, please do the listening and let us see if it is genuine.
Let us not decide before we listen if it is genuine or not. Thank you, Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you, Mr. Kagawa. Councilmember
Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you. I was part of the Kaua`i Public
Land Trust (KPLT) when KPLT tried to negotiate with Mr. Sheehan to acquire the
properties that we are talking about and pass it on to the County, much as we did
with the Hodge property, which was adjacent then to Black Pot Beach Park. There
was a huge discrepancy between what Mr. Sheehan said publicly and what he was
actually willing to do. Then, we had a similar experience when the County began
negotiations with Mr. Sheehan. We made huge efforts to come to agreement. We
did not want to go to court, but there was no other way to achieve our goal of
acquiring Black Pot Beach Park. Special Counsel was not hired to defend the
County. It was hired to help us accomplish our goal of acquiring these properties to
expand Black Pot Beach Park by fairly compensating Mr. Sheehan for the value of
the property. So, I feel like we have been very cooperative as much as we could be
and then we had to keep moving toward our goal, and I am really happy today to be
able to vote for this Bill that is going to finally bring this project to fruition.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Anymore before I call for the vote?
No? Okay, we have a motion and a second, and we have enough here to have a vote.
So, please do a roll call vote, please.
The motion to adopt Bill No. 2532 on second and final reading, and that it be
transmitted to the Mayor for his approval, was then put, and carried by the
following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Bynum, Chock, Hooser, Kagawa,
Yukimura, Furfaro TOTAL— 6,
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Rapozo TOTAL— 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Six (6).
Chair Furfaro: 6:0 ayes, thank you very much. What I
would like to do, I have just for the Council, any representatives that were here for
Bills for First Reading, I have let them go home because we will have opportunities
in Second Bill Readings. I would like to be able to handle some discussion on the
item for Mr. Dill. Mr. Dill, that item number...
COUNCIL MEETING 107 MARCH 27, 2014
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: It is on page 5, C 2014-95.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Could you read that one as
Mr. Dill finds his way up?
There being no objections, C 2014-95 was taken out of order.
LEGAL DOCUMENT:
C 2014-95 Communication (02/24/2014) from the County Engineer,
requesting Council approval of the State-County Memorandum of Agreement
(MOA) Implementation of County Federal-Aid Highway Projects and Programs:
Mr. Kagawa moved to approve C 2014-95, seconded by Mr. Bynum.
Chair Furfaro: Okay, this is on the MOU. Larry, if you
want to give us some narrative.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Mr. Dill: Certainly. Thank you, Chair. Good evening
Council Chair Furfaro and members of the Council. We have before you today,
requesting your approval for execution of this State-County Agreement for
Federal-Aid Projects. Real briefly, as you are well aware, we are fortunate to
receive for many of our roadway and transportation projects, funding from the
Federal Highways Administration. The Administration basically grants money
through the State, to the County and the other Counties as well for the County to
implement these projects. Every party has certain responsibilities and this
agreement, which we have never had in place before though many State have had
in place. Federal Highways is looking to add some formal (individual) to the way
that this process is worked out between the Counties and the States. It identifies
what the Counties are required to do and what the States are required to do.
Basically, we are required to comply with all laws in place. As you probably know,
there are many Federal laws we have to comply with in prosecuting these projects
and it lets the State know what their responsibilities are for administering the
program to the Counties. We have been discussing this agreement with the State
for the last several months. They have also been working with the other Counties.
Our attorneys, I want to give credit especially to Jodi Higuchi, our Public Works
attorney who has been working hard on this agreement and also according with the
other corporation Counsels from the various Counties. We have finally got it to the
point now where all of the Counties are bringing it to their various Councils for
approval. So, that is my brief presentation on this. I am happy to answer any
questions if I can.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. We will start with Mr. Bynum. Your
microphone.
Mr. Bynum: Thank you very much. Just one (1) question.
So, this is the same MOU in each County?
Mr. Dill: Yes. Actually, you may notice that all the
Counties will be executing this single document.
Mr. Bynum: Right.
COUNCIL MEETING 108 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Dill: Yes.
Mr. Bynum: And it has a Dispute Resolution Section?
Mr. Dill: Yes.
Mr. Bynum: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you for pointing that out. Other
questions for Mr. Dill? Councilmember Yukimura.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes, thank you. It seems like a good idea to
have a written agreement. So, in Section 4 on page 3, looks it like the County is
responsible for designating a qualified full-time public employee to be responsible
and serve as the overall point of contact. Who in the County, will that point of
contact be?
Mr. Dill: All of the points of contact are listed on
page 15.
Ms. Yukimura: I see.
Mr. Dill: You will notice for the County of Kaua`i, it is
the County Engineer. So, I am the designated point of contact as far as this
agreement is concerned for overall oversight of the program. Now that we have
hired a Chief for the Engineering Division, I have let him know that it may will be
that it will move into his responsibility at some point, but for now, I am the
designated point of contact.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: So, you have the authority to anoint the new
hire?
Mr. Dill: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: I see. I guess that is the way authority
works, right? Any further questions for Mr. Dill? If not, thank you Mr. Dill.
Mr. Dill: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: We have two (2) other people in the
audience, but they are not here for this particular item.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: Jade, we have a motion and a second. So, is
there is any further discussion before I call for a vote? If not, this is a roll call? No,
this is a grant.
The motion to approve C 2014-95 was then put, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1
(Mr. Rapozo was excused).
COUNCIL MEETING 109 MARCH 27, 2014
Chair Furfaro: Thank you very much, Larry for staying.
Enjoy your evening. We have a few housekeeping things that need to be done. I
would like to clean this up for the next ten (10) minutes and then I think we are
waiting for the Auditor to go into Executive Session before that, but let us clean up
some housekeeping items.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: This is on page 4.
Chair Furfaro: On page 4 everyone.
C 2014-92 Communication (03/14/2014) from the Director of Economic
Development, requesting Council approval to accept a donation from the Hawai`i
Natural Energy Institute (HNEI) for building energy monitoring at 3990 Ka'ana
Street, valued at $64,072, to include hardware, setup, monitoring, data collection,
reporting, and suggested retrofit strategies for the facility: Mr. Chock moved to
approve C 2014-92 with thank—you letter to follow, seconded by Mr. Kagawa.
(Mr. Bynum was noted as not present.)
Chair Furfaro: Any further discussion?
The motion to approve C 2014-92 with thank—you letter to follow, was then
put, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1 (Mr. Rapozo was excused).
Chair Furfaro: Next item.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Next item is on page 5.
CLAIMS:
C 2014-97 Communication (03/07/2014) from the Deputy County Clerk,
transmitting a claim filed against the County of Kaua`i by Felicia Cowden, for
damage to her personal property, pursuant to Section 23.06, Charter of the County
of Kaua`i: Mr. Kagawa moved to refer C 2014-97 to the County Attorney's Office for
disposition and/or report back to the Council, seconded by Ms. Yukimura.
Chair Furfaro: We have a second from JoAnn?
Ms. Yukimura: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Any discussion?
The motion to refer C 2014-97 to the County Attorney's Office for disposition
and/or report back to the Council was then put, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1
(Mr. Rapozo was excused).
Chair Furfaro: Next item, please.
C 2014-98 Communication (03/10/2014) from the Deputy County Clerk,
transmitting a claim filed against the County of Kaua`i by Paul Noboru Applegate,
for damages to his vehicle, pursuant to Section 23.06, Charter of the County of
Kaua`i: Mr. Kagawa moved to refer C 2014-98 to the County Attorney's Office for
disposition and/or report back to the Council, seconded by Ms. Yukimura.
COUNCIL MEETING 110 MARCH 27, 2014
Chair Furfaro: Second by JoAnn. Further discussion?
The motion to refer C 2014-98 to the County Attorney's Office for disposition
and/or report back to the Council was then put; and carried by a vote of 6:0:1
(Mr. Rapozo was excused).
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Next item.
COMMITTEE REPORTS:
FINANCE & ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (TOURISM / VISITOR INDUSTRY /
SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT / SPORTS & RECREATION
DEVELOPMENT / OTHER ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AREAS) COMMITTEE:
A report (No. CR-FED 2014-16) submitted by the Finance & Economic
Development (Tourism / Visitor Industry / Small Business Development / Sports &
Recreation Development / Other Economic Development Areas) Committee,
recommending that the following be Received for the Record on second and final
reading:
"C 2014-53 Communication (02/05/2014) from Councilmember
Bynum, requesting the presence of the Director of Finance and the Budget &
Purchasing Director, for a broad discussion and presentation on the budget
trend analysis and identified challenges for the upcoming Fiscal
Year 2014-2015 budget session for the County of Kaua`i,"
Mr. Kagawa moved for approval of the report, seconded by Ms. Yukimura,
and carried by a vote of 6:0:1 (Mr. Rapozo was excused).
A report (No. CR-FED 2014-17) submitted by the Finance & Economic
Development (Tourism / Visitor Industry / Small Business Development / Sports &
Recreation Development / Other Economic Development Areas) Committee,
recommending that the following be Received for the Record on second and final
reading:
"Bill No. 2530 A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
ORDINANCE NO.B-2013-753, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO THE
OPERATING BUDGET OF THE COUNTY OF KAUAI, STATE OF
HAWAII, FOR THE FISCAL YEAR JULY 1, 2013 THROUGH
JUNE 30, 2014, BY REVISING THE AMOUNTS ESTIMATED IN THE
GENERAL FUND (Police Department — Chief's Office, Regular Overtime -
$500,000),"
Mr. Kagawa moved for approval of the report, seconded by Ms. Yukimura,
and carried by a vote of 6:0:1 (Mr. Rapozo was excused).
A report (No. CR-FED 2014-18) submitted by the Finance & Economic
Development (Tourism / Visitor Industry / Small Business Development / Sports &
Recreation Development / Other Economic Development Areas) Committee,
recommending that the following be Approved on second and final reading:
"Bill No. 2532 A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
ORDINANCE NO. B-2013-754, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO THE
CAPITAL BUDGET OF THE COUNTY OF KAUAI, STATE OF HAWAII,
COUNCIL MEETING 111 MARCH 27, 2014
FOR THE FISCAL YEAR JULY 1, 2013 THROUGH JUNE 30, 2014, BY
REVISING THE AMOUNTS ESTIMATED IN THE BOND FUND — CIP
AND SPECIAL TRUST FUND — CIP FOR PARKS & PLAYGROUNDS
(Black Pot Condemnation Balance - $1,259,905),"
Mr. Kagawa moved for approval of the report, seconded by Ms. Yukimura,
and carried by a vote of 6:0:1 (Mr. Rapozo was excused).
Chair Furfaro: Next item.
RESOLUTIONS:
Resolution No. 2014-11 — RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING THE REAL
PROPERTY TAX RATES FOR THE FISCAL YEAR JULY 1, 2014 TO
JUNE 30, 2015 FOR THE COUNTY OF KAUAI: Ms. Yukimura moved to schedule
a public hearing on May 7, 2014 at 5:00 p.m., and that it thereafter be referred to
the Committee of the Whole, seconded by Mr. Kagawa.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Roll call.
Chair Furfaro: I think we had a second from Ross. Thank
you. Any discussion?
(Mr. Bynum was noted as present.)
The motoin to adopt Resolution No. 2014-11 was then put, and carried by the
following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Bynum, Chock, Hooser, Kagawa,
Yukimura, Furfaro TOTAL— 6,
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Rapozo TOTAL— 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
Chair Furfaro: Next Resolution, please.
Resolution No. 2014-12 — RESOLUTION CONFIRMING MAYORAL
APPOINTMENT TO THE CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION (Nancy P. Golden)
Chair Furfaro: This is a deferral.
Mr. Kagawa moved to defer Resolution No. 2014-12 pending interview,
seconded by Mr. Chock, and was carried by the following vote:
FOR DEFERRAL: Bynum, Chock, Hooser, Kagawa,
Yukimura, Furfaro TOTAL— 6,
AGAINST DEFERRAL: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Rapozo TOTAL— 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
Chair Furfaro: Deferred. Next item, please.
Resolution No. 2014-13 — RESOLUTION CONFIRMING MAYORAL
APPOINTMENT TO THE LIQUOR CONTROL COMMISSION (Paul N. Endo):
COUNCIL MEETING 112 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Kagawa moved to defer Resolution No. 2014-13 pending interview, seconded by
Mr. Chock.
Chair Furfaro: No discussion on a deferral.
The motion to defer Resolution No. 2014-13 pending interview was then put,
and was carried by the following vote:
FOR DEFERRAL: Bynum, Chock, Hooser, Kagawa,
Yukimura, Furfaro TOTAL— 6,
AGAINST DEFERRAL: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Rapozo TOTAL— 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
Resolution No. 2014-14 — RESOLUTION CONFIRMING MAYORAL
APPOINTMENT TO THE PUBLIC ACCESS, OPEN SPACE, AND NATURAL
RESOURCES PRESERVATION FUND COMMISSION (Karen M Ono)
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Council Chair, we received a memorandum
dated March 27th from Paula Morikami withdrawing Ms. Ono's name as she is a
Mayoral appointment.
Mr. Kagawa moved to receive Resolution No. 2014-14 for the record, seconded
by Ms. Yukimura.
Chair Furfaro: Question? Yes.
Mr. Bynum: I just wanted to thank Karen for her service.
There was a mistake that we did not need to approve it, but she is going to be an
excellent member of that Commission.
Chair Furfaro: Yes, she is going to be.
Mr. Bynum: I thank the Mayor for a good appointment.
Chair Furfaro: Yes, the Mayor's appointee does not get our
confirmation. Let us move to receive.
The motoin to receive Resolution No. 2014-14 for the record was then put,
and carried by the following vote:
FOR RECEIPT: Bynum, Chock, Hooser, Kagawa,
Yukimura, Furfaro TOTAL— 6,
AGAINST RECEIPT: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Rapozo TOTAL— 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0.
Chair Furfaro: Next item, please.
Resolution No. 2014-15 — RESOLUTION CONFIRMING MAYORAL
APPOINTMENT TO THE SALARY COMMISSION (Lenie F. P. Nishihira):
Mr. Chock moved to adopt Resolution No. 2014-15, seconded by Mr. Kagawa.
COUNCIL MEETING 113 MARCH 27, 2014
Chair Furfaro: I do want to comment. She was an excellent,
excellent candidate and a great interview this morning.
Ms. Yukimura: Great.
Chair Furfaro: Any further discussion? Mr. Kagawa.
Mr. Kagawa: I missed the interview, but I read her resume
or application and it was outstanding with her accounting background and what
have you. So, I want to thank again, Paula and Lenie, for bringing great Board
members. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. This is a motion to approve.
The motoin to adopt Resolution No. 2014-15 was then put, and carried by the
following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Bynum, Chock, Hooser, Kagawa,
Yukimura, Furfaro TOTAL— 6,
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Rapozo TOTAL— 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
Resolution No. 2014-16 — RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE FILING OF
THE KAUAI COUNTY 2014 ACTION PLAN (COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT
BLOCK GRANT) WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN
DEVELOPMENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, FOR A GRANT UNDER
TITLE I OF THE HOUSING AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT ACT OF 1974
AND 1987 (PUBLIC LAWS 93-383 AND 100-242), AS AMENDED
Chair Furfaro: One moment before we have the deferral.
We have a member who wants to speak.
Ms. Yukimura: I just want to recuse myself. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: She wants to recuse herself. Do not go far.
Ms. Yukimura: I will not.
(Ms. Yukimura was noted as recused from Resolution No. 2014-16.)
Chair Furfaro: Go ahead, Mr. Kagawa.
Mr. Kagawa moved to defer Resolution No. 2014-16 to the April 23, 2014
Council Meeting, seconded by Mr. Chock.
Chair Furfaro: We have a motion to defer and a second. No
discussion on a deferral.
The motion to defer Resolution No. 2014-16 to the April 23, 2014 Council
Meeting was then put, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1:1 (Mr. Rapozo was
excused and Ms. Yukimura was recused).
COUNCIL MEETING 114 MARCH 27, 2014
Chair Furfaro: Ask Councilmember Yukimura to come back
in. There we go.
(Ms. Yukimura was noted as present.)
BILLS FOR FIRST READING:
Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2537) — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE RELATING
TO THE OPERATING BUDGET AND FINANCING THEREOF FOR THE FISCAL
YEAR JULY 1, 2014 TO JUNE 30, 2015 (Mayor's Operating Budget): Mr. Kagawa
moved for passage of Proposed Draft Bill No. 2537 on first reading, that it be
ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be scheduled for May 7, 2014 at
5:00 p.m., and that it thereafter be referred to the Committee of the Whole,
seconded by Mr. Chock.
Chair Furfaro: Further discussion? Roll call.
The motion for passage of Proposed Draft Bill No. 2537 on first reading, that
it be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be scheduled for
May 7, 2014 at 5:00 p.m., and that it thereafter be referred to the Committee
of the Whole, was then put, and carried by the following vote:
FOR PASSAGE: Bynum, Chock, Hooser, Kagawa,
Yukimura, Furfaro TOTAL— 6,
AGAINST PASSAGE: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Rapozo TOTAL— 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Six (6) ayes.
Chair Furfaro: Six (6) ayes. Thank you. Next item.
Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2538) — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE RELATING
TO CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS AND FINANCING THEREOF FOR THE FISCAL
YEAR JULY 1, 2014 TO JUNE 30, 2015 (Mayor's CIP Budget): Mr. Kagawa moved
for passage of Proposed Draft Bill No. 2538 on first reading, that it be ordered to
print, that a public hearing thereon be scheduled for May 7, 2014 at 5:00 p.m., and
that it thereafter be referred to the Committee of the Whole, seconded by
Mr. Chock.
Chair Furfaro: Further discussion? If not, roll call vote,
please.
The motion for passage of Proposed Draft Bill No. 2538 on first reading, that
it be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be scheduled for
May 7, 2014 at 5:00 p.m., and that it thereafter be referred to the Committee
of the Whole, was then put, and carried by the following vote:
COUNCIL MEETING 115 MARCH 27, 2014
FOR PASSAGE: Bynum, Chock, Hooser, Kagawa,
Yukimura, Furfaro TOTAL—6,
AGAINST PASSAGE: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Rapozo TOTAL— 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Six (6) ayes.
Chair Furfaro: Six (6) ayes. Thank you. Next item.
Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2539) —A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
ORDINANCE NO. PM-2004-370, AS AMENDED BY ORDINANCE
NO. PM-2010-400, AND ORDINANCE NO. PM-2005-374, RELATING TO THE
KUKUI`ULA WORKFORCE HOUSING: Mr. Chock moved for passage of Proposed
Draft Bill No. 2539 on first reading, that it be ordered to print, that a public hearing
thereon be scheduled for April 23, 2014, and that it thereafter be referred to the
Planning Committee, seconded by Mr. Kagawa.
Chair Furfaro: Further discussion? If not, roll call, please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Chair, there is something that we need to
check on quickly for this one. If I could just put this to the end?
Chair Furfaro: We will put it right to the end.
Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2540) —A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
ARTICLE 17, CHAPTER 8, KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED,
RELATING TO NONCONFORMING USE CERTIFICATES FOR SINGLE FAMILY
VACATION RENTALS: Mr. Chock moved to refer Proposed Draft Bill No. 2540 to
the Planning Commission, seconded by Mr. Kagawa.
Chair Furfaro: It is referred to the Planning Commission.
Ms. Yukimura: Sorry.
Chair Furfaro: This Bill takes the fees from five hundred
dollars ($500) to seven hundred fifty dollars ($750) on approved Transient Vacation
Rentals (TVR). This will raise approximately one hundred thousand dollars
($100,000) for the year. Further discussion? If not, roll call for a referral to the
Planning Commission.
The motion to refer Proposed Draft Bill No. 2540 to the Planning
Commission, was then put, and carried by the following vote:
FOR REFERRAL: Bynum, Chock, Hooser, Kagawa,
Yukimura, Furfaro TOTAL — 6,
AGAINST REFERRAL: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Rapozo TOTAL— 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Six (6) ayes.
Chair Fufaro: Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING 116 MARCH 27, 2014
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Chair, if we could go back to proposed Draft
Bill No. 2539.
Chair Fufaro: Sure.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: It did come from the Planning Commission.
Chair Fufaro: Okay. So, this is not a referral to the
Planning Commission.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: No, we can enteratin it now in Council.
Chair Furfaro: We can?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Yes.
Chair Fufaro: So, we have the motion and second, right?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Further discussion? If not, roll call again. I
am sorry.
The motion for passage of Proposed Draft Bill No. 2539 on first reading, that
it be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be scheduled for
April 23, 2014, and that it thereafter be referred to the Planning Committee,
was then put, and carried by the following vote:
FOR PASSAGE: Bynum, Chock, Hooser, Kagawa,
Yukimura, Furfaro TOTAL— 6,
AGAINST PASSAGE: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Rapozo TOTAL— 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Six (6) ayes.
Chair Furfaro: Six (6) ayes.
Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2541) —A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
CHAPTER 6, ARTICLE 14, KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED,
RELATING TO THE PUBLIC ACCESS, OPEN SPACE, AND NATURAL
RESOURCES PRESERVATION FUND: Mr. Chock moved for passage of Proposed
Draft Bill No. 2541 on first reading, that it be ordered to print, that a public hearing
thereon be scheduled for April 23, 2014, and that it thereafter be referred to the
Planning Committee, seconded by Mr. Bynum.
Chair Furfaro: Further discussion? Mr. Bynum and then
Councilmember Yukimura, or Councilmember Yukimura, you can go first.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. I just want to say I do not agree with
this Bill, but I will be voting to have it pass on first reading so we can go to the
public hearing and hear what people have to say about it.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. Mr. Bynum.
COUNCIL MEETING 117 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Bynum: Thank you. Similar. I am going to vote for
this today. I just want to note for the record that this is an Administration Bill that
I introduced by request and I am looking for alternatives for this particular
measure, but for now, I am going to support it today.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. So, I want you folks to know that I do
support this Bill and I have shared with you that as we increase the fees for the
public acquisition, we have also then increased all of the costs associated with the
acquisition such as appraisals, legal fees, and so forth. This Bill may make some of
that money avaiable as long as it is for the land piece. That is how I understand it
at this point and that is my comment. I do not need a lot of discussion on this, but if
you disagree with me, disagree with me, but I am just telling you I can support it.
Go ahead.
Mr. Bynum: I just want to make sure we are talking
about the same Bill. This is a Bill that reduces our contribution to the Open Space
Fund?
Chair Furfaro: This says that our minimum will be one-half
percent (0.5%), but can go up as high as one and a half percent (1.5%).
Mr. Bynum: Okay. We are talking about the same Bill, so
we can...
Chair Furfaro: But then if it goes up to one and a half
percent (1.5%) and we have a large acquisition and so forht, we will not be going to
the County Attorney's budget for legal fees associated with acquisition. So, we can
have more discussion as we go...
Mr. Bynum: Sure, I am happy to save that discussion.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Hooser.
Mr. Hooser: Yes, we will have lots of discussion in the
weeks ahead on these and we all acknowledge that the buget is going to be a very
difficuly process for all of us, but I also think it is important to telegraph to a cetain
extent how we are feeling about certain things as we move forward. So, I feel
compelled also to share the concerns expressed by Councilmember Yukimura and
Councilmember Bynum. We have a very difficult time at the end of the day in
supporting this measure, but I realize that there are a lot of tough choices ahead.
Thank you very much, Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Again, I telegraph clear enough. Very good.
The reason again, I hope we can go after some large acquisitions and money is tight.
Anyway, any further discusison?
The motion for passage of Proposed Draft Bill No. 2541 on first reading, that
it be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be scheduled for
April 23, 2014, and that it thereafter be referred to the Planning Committee,
was then put, and carried by the following vote:
FOR PASSAGE: Bynum, Chock, Hooser, Kagawa,
Yukimura, Furfaro TOTAL— 6,
AGAINST PASSAGE: None TOTAL— 0,
COUNCIL MEETING 118 MARCH 27, 2014
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Rapozo TOTAL — 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa Six (6) ayes.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you.
Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2542) —A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
SECTION 21-9.2 OF THE KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED,
RELATING TO INTEGRATED SOLID WASTE MANAGEMENT: Ms. Yukimura
moved for passage of Proposed Draft Bill No. 2542 on first reading, that it be
ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be scheduled for April 23, 2014, and
that it thereafter be referred to the Committee of the Whole, seconded by
Mr. Bynum.
Chair Furfaro: Not the Convention Hall.
Ms. Yukimura: I was asleep, Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Further discussion?
The motion for passage of Proposed Draft Bill No. 2542 on first reading, that
it be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be scheduled for
April 23, 2014, and that it thereafter be referred to the Committee of the
Whole, was then put, and carried by the following vote:
FOR PASSAGE: Bynum, Chock, Hooser, Yukimura,
Furfaro TOTAL— 5,
AGAINST PASSAGE: Kagawa TOTAL— 1,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Rapozo TOTAL— 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: 5:1.
Chair Furfaro: 5:1.
Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2543) —A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
SECTION 5-2.3, KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO
THE COUNTY MOTOR VEHICLE WEIGHT TAX: Ms. Yukimura moved for
passage of Proposed Draft Bill No. 2543 on first reading, that it be ordered to print,
that a public hearing thereon be scheduled for April 23, 2014, and that it thereafter
be referred to the Finance & Economic Development (Tourism / Visitor Industry /
Small Business Development / Sports & Recreation Development / Other Economic
Development Areas) Committee, seconded by Mr. Bynum.
Chair Furfaro: Second by Mr. Bynum. Discussion? If not,
roll call, please.
The motion for passage of Proposed Draft Bill No. 2543 on first reading, that
it be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be scheduled for
April 23, 2014, and that it thereafter be referred to the Finance & Economic
Development (Tourism / Visitor Industry / Small Business Development /
Sports & Recreation Development / Other Economic Development Areas)
Committee, was then put, and carried by the following vote:
COUNCIL MEETING 119 MARCH 27, 2014
FOR PASSAGE: Bynum, Chock, Hooser, Yukimura,
Furfaro TOTAL— 5,
AGAINST PASSAGE: Kagawa TOTAL— 1,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Rapozo TOTAL— 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: 5:1.
Chair Furfaro: 5:1?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. We have Bills for Second Reading.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: This is Bill No....
Chair Furfaro: This is one to receive, I believe, right?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Yes.
BILLS FOR SECOND READING:
Bill No. 2530 — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
ORDINANCE NO. B-2013-753, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO THE OPERATING
BUDGET OF THE COUNTY OF KAUAI, STATE OF HAWAII, FOR THE FISCAL
YEAR JULY 1, 2013 THROUGH JUNE 30, 2014, BY REVISING THE AMOUNTS
ESTIMATED IN THE GENERAL FUND (Police Department — Chief's Office,
Regular Overtime - $500,000): Mr. Chock moved to receive Bill No. 2530 for the
record on second and final reading, seconded by Mr. Kagawa.
Chair Furfaro: I have a second by Mr. Kagawa, a first by
the Vice Chair.
The motion to receive Bill No. 2530 for the record on second and final reading
was then put, and carried by the following vote:
FOR RECEIPT: Bynum, Chock, Hooser, Kagawa,
Yukimura, Furfaro TOTAL—6,
AGAINST RECEIPT: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Rapozo TOTAL— 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Six (6) ayes.
Chair Furfaro: Just for clarification, I thought perhaps on
receiving the Bills for Second Reading, it would have just been a voice vote.
Ms. Yukimura: Me too.
Chair Furfaro: Oh, you thought that same way?
Ms. Yukimura: Yes.
COUNCIL MEETING 120 MARCH 27, 2014
Chair Furfaro: Very good. Where do we go from here then?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: We have one (1) Executive Session, that is
ES-714 and one (1) corresponding open session item which is on page 4, C 2014-94.
Chair Furfaro: So, perhaps at this time, we could see if want
to hear from the County Auditor?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: If we wanted to get into Executive Session,
we could get the County Attorney.
Chair Furfaro: Yes.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: If they could read ES-714.
Chair Furfaro: On that note, for just clarification, the
County Auditor cold be invited into the Executive Session?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: As a resource person.
Chair Furfaro: Just want to make sure.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: As a testifier for the Bill. Go ahead, Al.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Mr. Castillo: Thank you. Council Chair and
Councilmembers, good evening, Al Castillo, County Attorney. The next matter for
your consideration is ES-714.
EXECUTIVE SESSION:
ES-714 Pursuant to Hawai`i Revised Statutes (HRS) Sections 92-4,
92-5(a)(4), and (8) and Kaua`i County Charter Section 3.07(E), the Office of the
County Attorney, requests an Executive Session with the Council, to provide the
Council with a briefing as it relates to the retention of Special Counsel to represent
the Office of the County Auditor regarding the release of the Fuel Audit, and related
matters. This briefing and consultation involves consideration of the powers,
duties, privileges, immunities, and/or liabilities of the Council and the County as
they relate to this agenda item.
Mr. Castillo: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Kagawa.
Mr. Kagawa: Did you want a motion?
COUNCIL MEETING 121 MARCH 27, 2014
Chair Furfaro: Yes, please.
Mr. Kagawa moved to convene in Executive Session for ES-714, seconded by
Ms. Yukimura.
Chair Furfaro: Is there any further discussion? If not,
which has been my practice for Executive Sessions to go by a roll call vote. County
Auditor, did you want to speak on this?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
ERNESTO G. PASION, County Auditor: For the record, Ernesto
G. Pasion, County Auditor. I want the public to know the reasons for my asking for
Special Counsel. The Chartered operations of the Office of the County Auditor's are
important and it must be kept with the highest level of honesty, integrity, openness,
transparency, completeness, and fairness to all parties involved. The Special
Counsel will be guiding and assisting me with the proper legal process, language,
and determining the legal issues and concerns necessary to issue the final Fuel
Audit Investigation Report. The privacy interests and protection of individuals and
County employees who provided testimony are paramount and need to be protected.
This Special Counsel will also be assisting us in this important area. Rest assured
that this is not personal. This process is in conformance with the provisions of the
Generally Accepted Government Auditing Standards (GAGAS) or the Yellow Book
and the County Charter. I firmly believe that the Office of the County Auditor
cannot be effectively, objectively, and ethically represented by the County Attorney
on this particular audit because the County Attorney and the former First Deputy
County Attorney represented and advised County officials and personnel who were
subpoenaed for their alleged direct and indirect involvement in the use of County
fuel for personal use in the investigation hearings. Pursuant to Generally Accepted
Government Auditing Standards, also known as the Yellow Book, provide the
following reporting requirements:
• Section 7.03 Auditors must issue audit reports communicating the results
of each completed performance audit.
• Section 7.04 The auditor should use a form of the audit report that is
appropriate for its intended use
• Section 7.05 The purposes of audit reports are to (1) communicate the
results of audits to those charged with governance, the appropriate
officials of the audited entity, and the appropriate oversight officials; (2)
make the results less susceptible to misunderstanding; (3) make the
results available to the public, unless specifically limited; and (4) facilitate
follow-up to determine whether appropriate corrective actions have been
taken.
• Report Findings: Section 7.14 In the audit report, auditors should present
sufficient, appropriate evidence to support the findings and conclusions in
relation to the audit objectives.
• Section 7.23 When fraud, noncompliance with provisions of laws,
regulations, contracts, or grant agreements, or abuse either have occurred
or are likely to have occurred, auditors may consult with authorities or
legal counsel about whether publicly reporting such information would
COUNCIL MEETING 122 MARCH 27, 2014
compromise investigative or legal proceedings. Auditors may limit their
public reporting to matters that would not compromise those proceedings
and, for example, report only on information that is already a part of the
public record.
• Section 7.39 If certain pertinent information is prohibited from public
disclosure or is excluded from a report due to the confidential or sensitive
nature of the information, auditors should disclose in the report that
certain information has been omitted and the reason or other
circumstances that make the omission necessary.
• Section 7.40 Certain information may be classified or may be otherwise
prohibited from general disclosure by Federal, State, or local laws or
regulations. In such circumstances, auditors may issue a separate,
classified or limited use report containing such information and distribute
the report only to persons authorized by law or regulation to receive it.
• Section 7.41 Additional circumstances associated with public safety,
privacy, or security concerns could also justify the exclusion of certain
information from a publicly available or widely distributed report. The
auditors may consult with legal counsel regarding any requirements or
other circumstances that may necessitate the omission of certain
information.
• Section 7.42 Considering the broad public interest in the program or
activity under audit assists auditors when deciding whether to exclude
certain information from publicly available reports. When circumstances
call for omission of certain information, auditors should evaluate or
conceal improper or illegal practices.
• Section 7.43 When audit organizations are subject to public records laws,
auditors should determine whether public records laws could impact the
availability of classified or limited use reports and determine whether
other means of communicating with management and those charged with
governance would be more appropriate. The auditor may consult with
legal counsel regarding applicable public records laws.
Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Councilmember Yukimura and then
Councilmember Chock, please.
Ms. Yukimura: Ernie, may we have a copy of what you just
read?
Mr. Pasion: Sure.
Ms. Yukimura: And are you aware of an opinion from either
I guess it would be the Disciplinary Counsel, that determines when there is conflict
or interest among attorneys? Do you have any reading of that or has...
Mr. Pasion: I have it not explored that one,
Councilmember.
COUNCIL MEETING 123 MARCH 27, 2014
Ms. Yukimura: Oh, okay. Alright. Thank you.
Mr. Pasion: Hopefully, I do not have to go there.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes, and I am remembering, I think it is the
attorneys actually who go the Board. They usually are the official body. Thank
you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Chock.
Mr. Chock: Thank you, Chair. In my short time here, we
have fielded a lot of concerns and requests from the community, the public, about
the need to not only share the findings of the audits that had been done by your
office, but also to be able to see that there is some progress being made on that
outcomes of the findings that you created. My question is just to ask you, do you
agree that it is in the best interest for us to share as much as possible from these
audits?
Mr. Pasion: Yes.
Mr. Chock: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Hooser.
Mr. Hooser: Yes, Mr. Pasion, how are you?
Mr. Pasion: Fine, Mr. Hooser.
Mr. Hooser: I want to restate just so I have it clear. The
Fuel Audit was done before I was elected to the Council I believe, over a year ago?
Mr. Pasion: Yes.
Mr. Hooser: And now, it is complete and the desire is to
release it? Is that correct?
Mr. Pasion: That is correct. I am obligated by, as I read
to you, the provisions of the Yellow Book or the Charter that the office is obligated
to issue an audit report.
Mr. Hooser: Okay. Clearly, it was in the media that
there were some preliminary conclusions or something. Was there a partial release
before? What happened?
Mr. Pasion: Well, the first one was a limited one just to
cover some irregularities that were uncovered in the use pf purchase of gasoline
stored at the different...
Chair Furfaro: Base yards.
Mr. Pasion: Base yards and also the use of credit cards
issued to the Transportation Agency for the use of their vehicles.
Mr. Hooser: And that was release already? That one?
COUNCIL MEETING 124 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Pasion: Yes.
Mr. Hooser: And that had some controversial or
contentious finding in that one. Now this is a different one that went more detailed,
more in-depth into the same facilities?
Mr. Pasion: Yes, this one involved the overall and then
also the investigations that were done and that is the reason why there is a need for
Special Counsel to guide me in what is legal to release to the public for public
consumption.
Mr. Hooser: So, your office wants to release this, but you
are concerned that if it is done improperly, it could expose the County or employees
to legal action?
Mr. Pasion: Thank you for mentioning that because there
were some people that were willing to come up and provide testimony to what they
knew about what was going on.
Mr. Hooser: So, you believe you need outside Counsel to
advise you on how to properly do this?
Mr. Pasion: That is correct.
Mr. Hooser: And you believe the County Attorney's Office
is not in the position to do this properly for you?
Mr. Pasion: Yes.
Mr. Hooser: Okay.
Mr. Pasion: Because they are directly conflicted by their
participation.
Mr. Hooser: Okay. Thank you very much.
Mr. Pasion: You are welcome.
Mr. Hooser: Thank you, Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Yes, I would thank you for those questions
because I think that gets to the heart of what the Auditor is asking, to make sure
that the release is appropriate. Councilmember Yukimura and then Mr. Kagawa.
You had your hand up, right? Go ahead, JoAnn.
Ms. Yukimura: So, Ernie, is this the first audit report where
you are asking for Special Counsel?
Mr. Pasion: I believe so, because of the nature of this
type of audit. Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: There were no irregularities in any of the
other audits that you did?
COUNCIL MEETING 125 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Pasion: There were a couple of them. For example, if
you go into the use of County vehicles, there was some noncompliance by the
County in its obligation to implement the provisions of HRS 105 as far as the use of
government vehicles, wherein people were taking the vehicles home. Part of it is
considered compensation and should be subject to payroll taxes by the users as well
as the share of the County on their Federal Insurance Contributions Act (FICA) and
Medicare taxes.
Ms. Yukimura: So, the answer is...this is the take home care
audit you are talking about?
Mr. Pasion: Yes, the use of County vehicles that were
used to take home.
Ms. Yukimura: The use of County vehicles?
Mr. Pasion: Right.
Ms. Yukimura: And that one was released without Special
Counsel? You did not need Special Counsel?
Mr. Pasion: That is correct.
Ms. Yukimura: So, this is the first one where you have
needed legal advice about what to release and what not to release?
Mr. Pasion: That is correct.
Ms. Yukimura: How did you distinguish this one from all
from all the rest?
Mr. Pasion: Well, because of the nature of this particular
audit.
Ms. Yukimura: And that is?
Mr. Pasion: That is there was some alleged criminal
nature of some acts that were...
Ms. Yukimura: But was that not resolved?
Mr. Pasion: I do not know. We will find out when I do a
follow-up audit on the Fuel Audit. I will do a follow-up audit on the Fuel Audit.
Ms. Yukimura: I thought you handled and all the people who
were involved with handing that issue of allegations, that was settled.
Mr. Pasion: Well, Councilmember Yukimura, we have to
do a follow-up audit so that what we uncovered and what we recommended are
being followed by the Administration, by the County. So, the follow-up audit will
then determine whether it is still ongoing or everything was addressed properly by
the County.
COUNCIL MEETING 126 MARCH 27, 2014
Ms. Yukimura: Is it not a process of audits that where there
is an allegation, you refer the matter to the proper enforcement officers for
evaluation and that is how it gets settled, whether in fact there was an illegal or
criminal act? Was that matter not settled already?
Mr. Pasion: Well, to me, that is separate as far as doing
what is required of my office as far as getting this final audit report out. My office
does not have any enforcement authority.
Ms. Yukimura: No, that is why you...is it not a proper
procedure to refer it to a proper investigative authority?
Mr. Pasion: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: And was that not done? I assume you
followed proper procedure on that.
Mr. Pasion: That part of it was referred to governance,
which was the County Council.
Ms. Yukimura: We are not an enforcement agency.
Mr. Pasion: Yes you do under 317.
Ms. Yukimura: No, that is not. That is an investigative
power, but it is not an enforcement power.
Mr. Pasion: But it is a step toward the enforcement.
Ms. Yukimura: Well, I guess we need to consult some legal
authority on that.
Mr. Pasion: Just like that I am doing right now.
Ms. Yukimura: Well, no, but I mean if it comes to the County
Council, then we have to do whatever we have to do and if that was your proper
procedure, then that was followed?
Mr. Pasion: I am just following procedures.
Ms. Yukimura: Well, it says that when fraud, noncompliance
with provisions of laws, regulations, contracts, or grant agreements, or abuse either
have occurred or are likely to have occurred, auditors may consult with authorities
or legal counsel about whether publicly reporting such information would
compromise investigative or legal proceedings. I think there were no legal
proceedings, right, that resulted after procedures were followed? Is that not right?
Was it not resolved?
Mr. Pasion: That is one of the provisions of the Yellow
Book that you are referring to. As far as getting my final audit report, I am also
following the provisions of the Yellow Book because otherwise, it will be incomplete.
I have to get it out.
COUNCIL MEETING 127 MARCH 27, 2014
Ms. Yukimura: Yes, but I think this is the Section that is
most relevant, the others...alright. Well, we will have a discussion. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Kagawa.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you. Thank you, Ernie. Was this
audit performed in-house or did you contract it out?
Mr. Pasion: No, it was not in-house. We used the
consultants as investigators.
Mr. Kagawa: So, consultants. Who performed the audit,
the work papers?
Mr. Pasion: The work papers were done by...well, the
work papers for the interim report was done by Ron Rawls who was a part of my
staff.
Mr. Kagawa: Oh, okay. It was done in-house?
Mr. Pasion: Right, and that was to report the findings of
the use of purchase gas as well as the credit cards issued to the Transportation
Agency and recommendations to correct them, but as far as the rest of the audit, it
was held until we got to issue the final report.
Mr. Kagawa: For what years was that audit?
Mr. Pasion: It was in 2010 and 2011.
Mr. Kagawa: 2010 and 2011? Did the office go forward or
back to see if it was a problem from the prior years also? Did we go back and...
Mr. Pasion: I would say that it has been a problem
because the software that was supposed to monitor the use of purchase gas at the
base yards, the system was not functioning. If you go to the Automated Teller
Machine (ATM), if you do not have the right number, you do not get any cash out,
right? But for the gas code that they were using, it was an old system. You can put
000 and it dispensed gasoline.
Mr. Kagawa: So, basically, for the prior years, it was very
easy to steal gas if one wanted to?
Mr. Pasion: I would say, yes.
Mr. Kagawa: But now with that new system, it allowed
you folks to catch some irregularities?
Mr. Pasion: Well, we will find that out when we do a
follow-up audit.
Mr. Kagawa: Okay. Very well. I do not tend to beat
around the bush. So, here is what was happening with me at least. I have been
getting a lot of requests from some of your supporters and they are asking me to
initiate removal of the Mayor because of the Fuel Audit. I for one, I feel that the
COUNCIL MEETING 128 MARCH 27, 2014
Mayor is highly under paid. I just went through the University of Hawai`i (UH)
salaries. There are fifty (50) people that work for the University of Hawai`i that
make more than two hundred thousand dollars ($200,000). I think the Mayor does
a lot than probably most of those fifty (50), what his job entails in running the
County of Kaua`i. We do not have a County Manager, but I really think if we are
going to spend outside Counsel to focus on the Mayor, I can say at this point, I am
not going to support it because I think politics does not belong at least on the
Council floor. I think if it is for outside Counsel for something else, then I will
consider it, but I think the Mayor's job to run the County to be at every function, I
think it entails using a lot more gas than probably he gets from the County. It is a
tough job and I think if we needed to set up some internal controls for the Mayor for
the future going forward, I think that is the right way to go. To question whether
our Mayor was stealing gas, I do not think it is fair. Anyway...
Mr. Pasion: Councilmember, if I may make a comment on
what you just said.
Mr. Kagawa: Yes.
Mr. Pasion: This request for a Special Counsel is not for
what you are talking about.
Mr. Kagawa: Okay.
Mr. Pasion: This request for Special Counsel is to
complete our audit.
Mr. Kagawa: Okay.
Mr. Pasion: I am not talking about the one that you are
taking about at all.
Mr. Kagawa: Well, it is just that I bring it up because in
recent weeks, I have been getting request from supporters of yours that sit here
with these signs in front and they are asking me to initiate removal of the Mayor
because he took the Fifth on the questions. Like I said, I think sometimes, we just
have to move on from issues that are done with.
Mr. Pasion: They were just exercising their First
Amendment.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Councilmember Yukimura, did you want to
respond to that specifically or...
Ms. Yukimura: It is a follow-up.
Chair Furfaro: It is a follow-up?
Ms. Yukimura: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Go right ahead.
COUNCIL MEETING 129 MARCH 27, 2014
Ms. Yukimura: So, if it is not the issue of corruption, then is
it just the privacy issue of redacting what might be private, personal privacy?
Mr. Pasion: I really do not know Councilmember. That is
the reason why I am asking for Special Counsel to help me and guide me because I
do not know. I do not want to compromise the privacy interests of people that
volunteered to provide testimony...compromise losing their jobs.
Ms. Yukimura: But that issue would not be an issue that
would trigger a conflict of interest with the County Attorneys. I mean, I think there
are people in the County Attorney's Office who can very straight forwardly advise
you about privacy issues and so forth.
Mr. Pasion: Objectively...Councilmember, like I said, I
would rather request for Special Counsel on this.
Ms. Yukimura: If the privacy issues are the issue, then that
did not come up in other audits?
Mr. Pasion: Not to this degree on this one. There were so
many that...well, the Council has a copy of the investigation report by the way.
Ms. Yukimura: Maybe it would be helpful for us to review it
again. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Just for clarification, the copy you referred to
was the first review?
Mr. Pasion: Chair, the...
Chair Furfaro: The copy you just referred to was the first
Fuel Audit?
Mr. Pasion: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Just for clarification.
Mr. Chock.
Mr. Chock: Thank you. Councilmember Yukimura
basically asked the question that I was going to ask, but can you specifically state
what it is that is in conflict for our County Attorney to advise you on this matter?
Mr. Pasion: Well, the County Attorney was the one who
was advising the alleged user of a credit card that was assigned to a County vehicle,
but was being used for a personal car.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Hooser, you have the floor.
Mr. Hooser: I am trying to get a little more clarity. So,
the first initial audit was done and that audit showed alleged improprieties or
criminal acts by the Mayor and others and now this is a follow-up audit?
COUNCIL MEETING 130 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Pasion: No, it is the...we will do a follow-up audit to
find out if the recommendations and what were going on have been corrected. This
one is still part of the interim report that was issued to complete that audit.
Mr. Hooser: So, there was the initial audit?
Mr. Pasion: Yes.
Mr. Hooser: And then there is this interim...
Mr. Pasion: No, there was an interim audit that was
done and this is the...
Mr. Hooser: So, the first audit was an interim audit?
Mr. Pasion: Right.
Mr. Hooser: And now there is the final audit?
Mr. Pasion: Yes, this one is going to be the...
Mr. Hooser: Which has been completed or which you hope
to complete?
Mr. Pasion: Well, it has been completed and I need to
have the Special Counsel to go over what is going to be completed to be released to
the public, make sure that there are...
Mr. Hooser: Right.
Mr. Pasion: I am just trying to protect the office too that
is why.
Mr. Hooser: So, on the final audit, what percentage of the
actual work has been done except for this work for the Special Counsel?
Mr. Pasion: It is almost...I would say ninety-five percent
(95%) done. Everything is done, it is just trying to put it together and then before it
is issued to you and to the public, that it has to be reviewed by a legal person,
Special Counsel, to make sure that everything is legal.
Mr. Hooser: Right. So, consider that the initial interim
audit...
Mr. Pasion: Okay.
Mr. Hooser: Disclosed very sensitive, contentious,
allegations of impropriety, the final audit, does that add addition information? It is
new information?
Mr. Pasion: Well, the one that we are going to be issuing
were not reported in the interim.
COUNCIL MEETING 131 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Hooser: Right. So, is that new information contained
inside that?
Mr. Pasion: Yes.
Mr. Hooser: Which may or may not also support or not
improprieties? There is additional information that might be controversial or
contentious or no?
Mr. Pasion: Well, as far as controversial or whatever,
that will be up to the Special Counsel to help me with that.
Mr. Hooser: And that is why I wondering if that is why
you need to Counsel because you expect this thing to blow up and be controversial
and get all kinds of big people upset. Is that why you need Special Counsel?
Mr. Pasion: The nature of this report that will be coming
out, I need some legal assistance to get it out because of its implications, yes.
Mr. Hooser: Okay. So, because of its implications?
Mr. Pasion: Yes.
Mr. Hooser: Because of what the audit may indicate or
state or show, you want to...so, it is more than just protecting...okay, never mind.
Thank you very much. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Okay, I just want to get consistent on the
terminology, Ernie, for a minute if I can. The preliminary report that came out was
submitted to the Council in what was referred to as a draft. Am I correct?
Mr. Pasion: Well, there was a draft that was issued first
before we made it public.
Chair Furfaro: Yes.
Mr. Pasion: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: So, that is the draft that we see. Then there
was a request by you to secure Special Counsel and investigators to go the next step
of which this Council, including myself, supported for you.
Mr. Pasion: When we initiated the audit, Chair, it was
uncovered that there were some alleged irregularities going on.
Chair Furfaro: Understood, but you had come to...
Mr. Pasion: And we said that we do not have the
expertise to do investigations.
Chair Furfaro: I understand that.
Mr. Pasion: So, then we came to the Council and
requested for the retention...
COUNCIL MEETING 132 MARCH 27, 2014
Chair Furfaro: The curators and the investigators.
Mr. Pasion: Retaining of investigators.
Chair Furfaro: So, the Council went to bat for you on that.
Mr. Pasion: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: Right?
Mr. Pasion: That is correct.
Chair Furfaro: In particular, myself. I went to the
Administration to make sure that happened. So, from those special investigators,
we now have a redraft of the original preliminary report? Is that what we are
saying, and that is the one you want the legal help on?
Mr. Pasion: It is not a redraft. It...
Chair Furfaro: A finalized?
Mr. Pasion: Yes, it is a final. It is the fuel investigation
audit report that is going to come out.
Chair Furfaro: So, that is what you want the legal Counsel
for?
Mr. Pasion: Yes.
Chair Furfaro: But it is also what I am hearing, and after
you do that, then you also want to do a follow-up of a new investigation?
Mr. Pasion: We will do a follow-up of the Fuel Audit that
is required of us by the Yellow Book and also by the Charter.
Chair Furfaro: But that will be the third one because we did
the draft preliminary, we have the one now you want Special Counsel for, and then
you will be asking to have a new Fuel Audit. Is that what I am hearing?
Mr. Pasion: No. I will be doing a follow-up audit of the
Fuel Audit that we...
Chair Furfaro: A follow-up of the second draft of the Fuel
Audit?
Mr. Pasion: The overall.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. I am just trying to put these in what
stages we have.
Mr. Pasion: The overall gas audit.
Chair Furfaro: JoAnn.
COUNCIL MEETING 133 MARCH 27, 2014
Ms. Yukimura: So, the follow-up you are talking about is
where you see how many of the recommendations have been followed?
Mr. Pasion: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: Have you done follow-ups of other audits?
Mr. Pasion: We did follow-up on the energy for the Cost
Control Commission and we might have to do a follow-up on that too because I can
see that there are some gaps in there.
Ms. Yukimura: Well, what about the other audits that you
have done, have you done follow-ups on them?
Mr. Pasion: Well, they will be coming.
Ms. Yukimura: How much time do you allow before you do
follow-ups?
Mr. Pasion: Usually two (2) to three (3) years.
Ms. Yukimura: So, you have not even issued the final Fuel
Audit, so you are going to wait two (2) or three (3) years and then do a follow-up?
Mr. Pasion: Well, basically, the Fuel Audit was in 2011.
So, we could do it. I still have to ascertain it. At this point, I do not know yet.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Let me clarify something here. The
questions I asked of Ernie of the Fuel Audit were because that is what is on the
agenda. I want to get clear that we are all using the same terminology. The agenda
item here is not about procedural things about other audits. So, I just...
Mr. Pasion: Well, thank you. Thank you, Chair.
Chair Furfaro: I just want to make sure you understand, I
was trying to get the clarification because we did get an original book which I recall
was the first draft. We did you extra assistance through the law firm of
McCorriston Miller Mukai MacKinnon LLP and the investigators. So, this might be
actually the second request for some legal and investigative help.
Mr. Pasion: They were not hired as legal Counsel...
Chair Furfaro: Okay, you used...
Mr. Pasion: They were investigators.
Chair Furfaro: Okay, you used the law firm for
investigators.
Mr. Pasion: They were the only one that bid for that
service.
COUNCIL MEETING 134 MARCH 27, 2014
Chair Furfaro: Got it, but what I want to make sure you
understand, I am trying to get some clarity on the terminology we are using; draft,
preliminary, and final draft. I just want to make sure we got that and that is all to
want to do. I just want to clarify. Mr. Bynum and then Mr. Hooser.
Mr. Bynum: Hi, Ernie. I thought this was pretty straight
forward, but now that there is questions, I end up having questions after all. In
your written thing you say, "firmly believe the Office of the County Auditor cannot
effectively, objectively, and ethically be represented by the County Attorney's Office
because the County Attorney and former First Deputy represented and advised
some of the officials that had to respond to the audit." Did that entail that the
entire County Attorney's Office being recused?
Mr. Pasion: Well, the County Attorney himself and the
First Deputy were involved in advising.
Mr. Bynum: We have a whole cadre of County Attorneys.
It not uncommon for them to conflict out. My question is has the entire office been
recused from this matter?
Mr. Pasion: Well, I would like to say that I would like to
have a more objective assistance from Special Counsel because to me, to office is
conflicted in this...
Mr. Bynum: The entire office?
Mr. Pasion: Yes, in this particular audit.
Mr. Bynum: Has that determination been made lately or
has the office recused themselves?
Mr. Pasion: What was that?
Mr. Bynum: I am just trying to determine, Ernie, if that
is your opinion or if there has already been a recusal or something.
Mr. Pasion: That is my opinion as the County Auditor.
Mr. Bynum: Okay. I guess I do not understand why
another member of the staff who was not involved in those earlier matters could not
effectively provide this. If the whole office was recused, then I would understand
that, but if that is not the case and there are just certain Deputies that were
involved...it is very common is it not for our Deputies at any firm to
compartmentalize and say, "Well, yes, I do not deal with this one because of this
conflict, but we have other attorneys to deal with it." I was just confused. I did not
know if this statement was an opinion or if the office had already recused, and then
have not, but you have clarified that it is an opinion. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Hooser, you have the floor.
Mr. Hooser: My comments can be done after we call the
meeting back to order, Chair. I just have some brief comments to make.
COUNCIL MEETING 135 MARCH 27, 2014
Chair Furfaro: Any other questions of the Auditor? Thank
you, Ernie.
Mr. Pasion: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Castillo, did you want to...
Mr. Castillo: Something short, Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Okay.
Mr. Castillo: Council Chair and Councilmembers, good
evening, Al Castillo, County Attorney. I just want to make note for the people that
may be wondering why I am up here. Regarding conflict, the Office of the County
Attorney represents all of the agencies in the County of Kaua`i and the lucky thing
and in this case, what should be discussed in Executive Session is whether or not
there are special circumstances that necessitates Special Counsel. Now, I would
like all of you to know that Mona Clark came back from retirement and she is
behind me. In terms of being separated from much of this issues, Mona Clark is
here, she is presently assigned to the Auditor's Office and to the Finance
Department, and she will be able to guide the Council and the County Auditor in
matters such as this. I just wanted to let you know. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Questions of Al? No?
Mr. Chock: Just clarification, Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Yes.
Mr. Chock: So, Mona Clark is just back on, she has not
been a part of any of the Fuel Audits in the past, so she would be a good candidate
in your office to be able to provide some legal Counsel as illustrated within the
request?
Mr. Castillo: Vice Chair Chock, I can only accurately
answer that question by telling you that as far as a conflict of interest situation,
there is none. I do not know how much she has paid attention to what has been on
television for the past several months. I can tell you that she has been retired for
about a year and now she is back. So, she would be a good candidate to serve the
County Auditor's Office. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Hooser.
Mr. Hooser: Yes, just briefly for the record. So, did you
advise the Mayor to take the Fifth on the question of whether or not fuel was taken
inappropriately?
Mr. Castillo: I am not at liberty to waive any
confidentiality that I have had with any of my clients.
Mr. Hooser: Okay.
Mr. Castillo: So, I cannot share any such information with
you. What I can tell you regarding this matter here is if you look at the agenda
COUNCIL MEETING 136 MARCH 27, 2014
item, it is only regarding the release of information and I feel confidently that Mona
Clark is more than capable and willing to guide the County Auditor's Office.
Mr. Hooser: If I may, the reason I think it is compelling
to point this out is because, and I agree with you that Mona Clark is capable of
doing a good job. I think it is a matter of confidence and circumstances from the
Auditor's Office and maybe from the public given the past involvement you had in
this issue, in advising the Mayor in a criminal matter. So, it is all convoluted
between the Auditor's Office and the Mayor and the Attorney's Office. So, I believe
and I do not want to speak for the County Auditor, that one reason that it is being is
because he wants confidence in his representation and given that history, there is
this lack of confidence.
Mr. Castillo: Well, convoluted, I would disagree because of
the fact that we take our job seriously in terms of who we represent and how we
separate our cases and how we keep information from each other regarding our
respective clients. So, as far as I am concerned, we have a clear understanding in
our office as to where the boundaries are. If there is any confusion, that is outside
and that is speculation. Thank you.
Mr. Hooser: Thank you, Chair. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Any further questions? Mr. Pasion, did you
want to respond to that? Excuse me, Al. Ernie, you have the floor.
Mr. Pasion: Councilmembers, Ernie Pasion, County
Auditor. I beg to differ with the County Attorney. He said that his office's job is to
protect or to represent the different Departments of the County. Well, what
happened to me? I had requested for Special Counsel to protect my office three (3)
times. I never got any response from him. So, it is in the record. It is part of my
case. I just want to say that because he said some things that were not true.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: Discussion amongst the members, and
remember, it is my practice to actually call a roll call before we go into Executive
Session. Mr. Kagawa, you have the floor.
Mr. Kagawa: Yes. Again, I am getting all of these highly
unusual things happen in my first term. I do have some experience with auditing.
I am an Accounting major and I had four (4) years working with a CPA in O`ahu,
Gerald Oshugima and we did have some government audits, some with the State,
some with the County, and I know how government audits are done. I do not do
performance audits, but generally, auditing is planning, preparing, and reporting
any irregularities accordance with, in this case, government accounting standards.
I have never in my time working for the CPA, felt the need to have an attorney to
oversee my work. I think our job is to do our investigating and report whatever we
find. If it hurts some individuals or their feelings or criminally have implications, it
is what it is. I am not here to judge the audit that Mr. Pasion did, but I think his
staff prepared the audits in accordance with government auditing standards and I
do not think there is really...I cannot see the need to have an attorney at five
hundred dollars ($500) and hour as we heard previously, to oversee their work. You
are going to have an attorney that does not know anything about auditing and is
COUNCIL MEETING 137 MARCH 27, 2014
going to spend time learning and reviewing the County Fuel Audit. I mean, the
time that he is learning, he is going to be billing us. I think we have Mona working
for the County. We are already paying her salary, let us give her a chance and I
think it is incumbent upon the attorneys to know when they have a concern and
Mr. Pasion has raised his concern. He does not want certain individuals highly
involved in the Fuel Audit case, such as Mr. Castillo, get involved or in the way of
directing Ms. Clark in what she does. I hope that we can actually satisfy two (2)
birds with one (1) stone and give Ms. Clark a chance to help Mr. Pasion give him
the fair review that he wants. Like I said, I know his staff, I knew Mr. Rawls a
little bit, and I have high confidence in the work that they have done. I think the
audit is what it is and some people have suffered through it, but I just hope that we
can move forward, we can get the audit out, and we can see what it is. I think the
Judge already partly decided on some of the case, but it is what it is and people
need to correct their actions if they show up in not god standing with an audit.
They just need to make their corrections and if they are really doing a lot of highly
unusual criminal activity, then they need to be prosecuted. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Further discussion? Mr. Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: I guess we get to talk about extraordinary
things several times today because you are correct. It is not just your first term. I
said earlier, extraordinary things are happening around all of these lawsuits and all
of this rhetoric that I have not seen in the twelve (12) or thirteen (13) I have been
here. Like this item, I thought we just normally we just go into Executive Session
and have the discussion. Now, we have had the whole discussion right here on the
floor.
Ms. Yukimura: Not the whole.
Mr. Bynum: Almost. We know what Mr. Passion's
position is. He says this is his opinion that he cannot be represented. We know
what the County Attorney's position is, that clearly, he is not going to have the
attorneys that Mr. Pasion is uncomfortable with working directly with this, but
there is a whole bunch of other attorneys there too. You do not start with t
assumption that something is nefarious, at least I do not. I start with the
assumption that people work in their roles with integrity. Now, I know Mona Clark
that got brought up there, I have seen the work she has done since prior to Al
Castillo being the guy. She is like this solid contract person that all of our people
really, really appreciated and when she retired I was sad because I have seen the
product of her good work, but even if I had not she is an attorney. She is a
professional. We are going to assume that she is going to act like a professional just
like I assume those of us around this table do. Then if one of us does not, we call
each other on it, right? So, I do not even know why we are going to go into
Executive Session. I know what my position is. There are plenty of County
Attorney who can do this role and the County Attorney has already given his
position. So, it is unusual, unusual things are happening around here, but these
things should not get played out on the Council floor and testimony going back and
forth. Again, I do not know what to do about it, but I do not know what this is
happening so much over the last few months.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Hooser.
Mr. Hooser: Yes, thank you, Chair. I think actually, the
fact that this is happening so much over the past few months is indicative of the
COUNCIL MEETING 138 MARCH 27, 2014
situation we are in with the County Attorney's Office. So, I think that is multiple
symptoms that there is issues with the County Attorney's Office and I differ from
my colleague to say that I think this is a good discussion to have. I asked my initial
questions because it was not clear, I do not think to the public, why we were going
into Executive Session. So, it needs to be clear that we are talking about a County
audit of the gas and serious allegations were made about our Chief Executive, the
Mayor, and whether it was criminal or just bad judgment or what, it is a very hot,
volatile topic in our community and it has many potential implications. So, it does
not surprise me given the history, given the circumstances, given the relationship
with the County Attorney's and the County Auditor's Office, that he would come
and request outside Counsel. It does not surprise me one bit. I think if I was in a
similar situation and handed my file, a hot topic that implicated or possibly
implicated or was politically hot, I would want legal advice too. Given the history of
the office, I would want outside Counsel too. No reflection on the new Deputy
Attorneys that may or may not provide that advice, but I think it is a perfectly
reasonable request to make, number one, given the circumstances. Also, I want to
say that even though I know my other colleague did not mean to imply this, but half
the people in the County are under paid and if being under paid does not justify
taking advantage of the system whether it is taking home paper, paper clips, pens,
or gasoline. This is a serious issue. I think we should treat it with the seriousness
that it deserves and if we are going to make a mistake, we make a mistake of being
more transparent and more forthright so the people of our County do not think that
we are sweeping something under the rug or trying to somehow not be transparent.
I just think it is a reasonable request and we can have further discussion in
Executive Session. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Chock.
Mr. Chock: Thank you, Chair. I would agree. I think
that is just a sign of the time that the request is that there is more transparency
and that is why we have people every day here asking us to share things that we
end up doing in Executive Session. So, whatever we can get away with happens on
the floor in this discussion. So, I appreciate it. I am still really confused about is it
about privacy, is it about his opinion, is it convoluted because the County Attorney
advised others and now they are all conflicted, is it just the County Attorney or the
First Deputy? The decision I need to make is whether or not there is a true source
of conflict there and that is what I am hoping to get out of the Executive Session,
but for my standpoint especially since we have been here every day getting pounded
because of legal Counsel or Special Counsel. It is like why are you folks hiring
Special Counsel constantly? Well, this might be a small way to say, I do not think
we need Special Counsel at this time around because it is a very broad request. It is
what can you share in this document or not. That is it. So, that is the direction I
am headed now, but I am willing to talk more about it and hear more about what
the details are. Thank you, Chair.
Chair Furfaro: So, on that note, I would like to actually call
for a vote to go into Executive Session as again, has been my practice as Chair. So,
could I have a roll call vote, please?
The motion to convene in Executive Session for ES-714 was then put, and
carried by the following vote:
FOR EXECUTIVE SESSION: Bynum, Chock, Hooser, Kagawa
Yukimura, Furfaro TOTAL— 6,
COUNCIL MEETING 139 MARCH 27, 2014
AGAINST EXECUTIVE SESSION: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Rapozo TOTAL— 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Six (6) ayes.
Chair Furfaro: Six (6) ayes, and I would like to say if we can
be in the chambers by ten (10) minutes past 7:00 p.m. or sooner, but some of us
need to take a break.
There being no objections, the Council recessed at 7:03 p.m.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order at 7:48 p.m.,
and proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: We are back from our Executive Session.
Mona, I have you here at the table and I think there are some questions we want to
post to you from various Councilmembers. JoAnn.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes, thank you. In examining all of the
circumstances of this situation, Mona, I can understand the Auditor's reluctance to
consult with Al Castillo, the County Attorney, but I think for us the question is
whether there are other attorneys with the office who can properly service the
Auditor's needs and avoid any conflict of interest. So, I want to ask you a couple of
questions and one is, should the Council determine not to authorize Special Counsel
at this time and if the job were to be given to you to support and work with the
County Attorney, how would keep the independence necessary from the County
Attorney for whom both the Auditor and the public perceive a conflict?
Chair Furfaro: Before you answer that, procedurally I would
like the Clerk the read the item that we are discussing here. So, if you could read
C 2014-94.
C 2014-94 Communication (03/20/2014) from the County Attorney,
requesting authorization to expend funds up to $10,000 to retain Special Counsel to
represent the Office of the County Auditor regarding the release of the Fuel Audit,
and related matters.
Chair Furfaro: Go ahead if you are still okay with her
question, please go ahead and respond.
MONA CLARK, Deputy County Attorney: Well, I think in this
particular situation, I would maintain strictly the confidentiality of my client, the
Auditor's Office, and not consult with anybody else in the office. I think that would
address the concerns about any conflict and assure that I was not drawn in a
conflict situation. If somehow the situation morphed over time and new facts or
circumstances were presented to me that I had been unaware of that I felt created
some sort of conflict, then I would call of Office of Disciplinary Counsel (ODC)
immediately and run by the circumstances that had developed and get an opinion
from an outside party, which is there for that specific purpose to determine whether
there was in fact a conflict. If there was any sort of conflict, I would first inform my
client, but then I would believe our office would submit a request for Special
COUNCIL MEETING 140 MARCH 27, 2014
Counsel. At this point, I do not see that any sort of conflict exists because the type
of activity that is being discussed here, redacting to protect the names, protecting
the County from any sort of slanderous allegations that something slanderous has
been said, that type of activity is pretty straight forward and I do not perceive any
type of conflict at all with my ability to do that. I have been gone for the last eight
(8) or nine (9) months and so I have not been involved in anything that has gone on
during that time period. I could not tell you exactly what has gone on because I
have not been tracking it. So, I do not know. I have not been involved in anything
obviously. So, I feel very confident that I could keep myself separate from the rest
of the people in the office so that no conflict occurs as far as people who have
previously given advice on the subject matter of the audit, that I did not have
contact with them or influence by them.
Ms. Yukimura: Now, you said you have been gone eight (8)
to nine (9) months, but I believe the investigation was done before that. So, I just
want to be clear that you did not have any role whatsoever or have any discussions
whatsoever with the County Attorney or anyone associated form the County
Attorney's Office with the Fuel Audit.
Ms. Clark: I was aware that a Fuel Audit had occurred
obviously. I think that was pretty common knowledge.
Ms. Yukimura: That was.
Ms. Clark: But I was not involved in the activities about
the Fuel Audit.
Ms. Yukimura: And you were not involved in any discussions
about the Fuel Audit?
Ms. Clark: Beyond just knowing that a Fuel Audit had
occurred and basic allegations, I was aware that there were allegations that have
been discussed in this Council, but that was pretty much my knowledge.
Ms. Yukimura: So, you were aware of things that were
publicly known?
Ms. Clark: I think I was aware of what was publicly
known.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Hooser.
Mr. Hooser: Thank you. It has been a long day for all of
us. In the prior discussion that we had before we went into Executive Session, we
talked and I had asked questions and others too about potential improprieties that
were passed and it is possible if you were consulting and going through it, you
might discover other improprieties and whether they are illegal or just unethical or
just improprieties, in that situation, what would you do? What is your
responsibility?
Ms. Clark: If I discovered that there were improprieties?
COUNCIL MEETING 141 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Hooser: Right. I mean, if the audit pointed out
improprieties.
Ms. Clark: Well, I think it depends on what sort of
improprieties you are talking about because I think any audit is going to highlight
problems that have occurred.
Mr. Hooser: Like theft. We will cut to the chase here,
stealing.
Ms. Clark: Right. If you are talking about criminal
activity, I believe that there would be a progression of referrals. I think the first
thing would be the referral to the Attorney General's Office for that type of activity.
Mr. Hooser: Yes.
Ms. Clark: That is pretty much what would happen, I
guess.
Mr. Hooser: If the decision was to ask you to work with
the County Auditor's Office, you would...I guess the was the process would work is
you would meet with the County Auditor and sit down to determine exactly what he
would hope to accomplish with your services, what he needs. Is that correct?
Ms. Clark: Well, I think we would talk. It is my
understanding from being here, that a lot of it is going to be redacting to protect
people's privacy. Obviously, we would have to talk through whatever issues he saw
and find out what they were and go from there.
Mr. Hooser: So, in those discussions, you would then be
able to determine the scope-of-work if you would, then the depth of knowledge and
experience needed to provide the services, and then determine whether you are the
right person for the job, I suppose?
Ms. Clark: Right. You will always want to have a level
of competence that you either currently have or you can develop so that you can
deal with the issues. If I felt that it was something that is easily researched or even
was difficult to research, I would feel competent to do that. Though if some unusual
set of circumstances came up that was totally beyond my expertise, I would seek
assistance of some sort. I do not know whether that would be in the form of a
training course that would be applicable or a Continuing Legal Education (CLE), a
continuing education course. I do not know what would be required. A lot of times,
one can educate yourself. As attorneys, we spend a lots of time researching items.
So, that would be the first course of action.
Mr. Hooser: Thank you. Thank you, Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Anyone else for first questions before JoAnn
has a second question? No? JoAnn, you have the floor.
Ms. Yukimura: If the Council were to approve Special
Counsel, it still has to go through your office, does it not, through the Procurement
Code process?
COUNCIL MEETING 142 MARCH 27, 2014
Ms. Clark: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: So, that your office would work with the
Auditor on what the scope-of-work would be or what the needs are and then you
already have a list which has been qualified for whatever work is needed or wanted,
and your office would choose with the Auditor, from the list? Is that how it works?
Ms. Clark: I think that you have submission by, I think
it is July 1st every year for professional credentials related to various items. So, you
would have all of these resumes from firms that would be ranked and evaluated and
then one chosen. Frequently, the ranking occurs just within our office rather than
bringing in the Auditor's Office to rank them in any way.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. So, the selection is actually done by
the County Attorney's Office?
Ms. Clark: That is correct.
Ms. Yukimura: Even if Special Counsel is involved?
Ms. Clark: That is right.
Ms. Yukimura: And it definitely requires a scope-of-work?
Ms. Clark: You would have a scope-of-work attached to
the contract.
Ms. Yukimura: Alright. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: First of all, welcome back.
Ms. Clark: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: The way these questions are going and
directed towards you and so forth, this would really be that you would be
encapsulated as the attorney for the Auditor and not the Counsel?
Ms. Clark: That is correct. I would be working for the
Auditor's Office.
Chair Furfaro: Other questions? Mr. Hooser.
Mr. Hooser: Just to clarify. So, the Auditor would be
your client?
Ms. Clark: That is correct.
Mr. Hooser: And that is where the client-attorney
privilege would be between you and the Auditor, and you would not share
information with the Council or the Administration?
Ms. Clark: That is correct.
Mr. Hooser: It would just be between the two (2) of you?
COUNCIL MEETING 143 MARCH 27, 2014
Ms. Clark: That is right.
Mr. Hooser: Okay. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Vice Chair.
Mr. Chock: Thank you. So, it seems to me the discussion
is moving towards the option to connect you with the Auditor to see that their needs
are met at the office. In the event of working through the concerns and what to
release or not, if there was a conflict that came up, what process would you go
through at that point to address the conflict?
Ms. Clark: If I felt that a conflict had arisen, I would go
back through and look at the professional rules of conduct that would rule in that
case. Generally, the conflict of interest rules would be the one that come first to
mind. Then I would call the Office of Disciplinary Counsel. They are very open to
people calling them or to attorneys calling them and seeking advice. I would set out
the circumstances that led me to believe that a conflict of interest had arisen. I
would then have a conversation with the person who was working for ODC and they
would ask me questions and I would provide responses and they would determine
based on what I told them, whether a conflict existed. If I was told that a conflict
exited, I would not want to handle the case or the matter any further because that
would compromise me professionally.
Mr. Chock: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: JoAnn.
Ms. Yukimura: So, if you were to get an opinion from
Disciplinary Counsel that there was a conflict and you followed the professional
rules, it would be at that time where there would be made a request for Special
Counsel then?
Ms. Clark: That is right. At that point, a request would
come from our office to this body requesting that Special Counsel be appointed.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Any more questions? None? Thank you very
much. Thank you.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Kagawa.
Mr. Kagawa: Can I make a motion?
Chair Furfaro: You can make a motion. Excuse me.
Mr. Pasion, you want to speak? Come right up.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
COUNCIL MEETING 144 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Pasion: For the record, Ernesto G. Pasion, County
Auditor. As you know, all contracts are reviewed by the Office of the County
Attorney and when we submitted our contract for this particular project which has
the Furlough Audit Report completion as well as the Fuel Audit Investigation
Report, it showed that we needed Special Counsel and their office approved it for
form and legality and never questioned it. So, we can expect it that we would be
able to get Special Counsel.
Chair Furfaro: Scott.
Mr. Pasion: Can you give them the copies, Scott?
Ms. Yukimura: What is the date of that, please?
Mr. Pasion: January 2013. This in on Contract No. 9039,
that they approved for form and legality, that reflected the fact that we needed
Special Counsel, and they signed off on this contract. Now, after the fact that they
did this, they want to handle it themselves? They did not bring it to our attention.
Chair Furfaro: JoAnn.
Ms. Yukimura: The following work shall be completed...this
is scope-of-work attached to what?
Mr. Pasion: This is the scope-of-work that was attached
to our contract with PKF Hawai`i, LLP, for them to do the completion of the
Furlough Audit Report and then also the Fuel Audit Investigation Report, to be a
public report.
Ms. Yukimura: Okay. So, you hired or procured CPA firm?
Mr. Pasion: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: To do a Fuel Audit Investigation Report?
Mr. Pasion: To do a...
Ms. Yukimura: Now, is this the one we are talking about?
Mr. Pasion: Yes, it is. No, not that one. The one that
had to be issued by our office.
Ms. Yukimura: I do not get it. This was issued by your
office, was it not?
Mr. Pasion: Yes, that was the interim report.
Ms. Yukimura: Oh, okay. Anyway, they approved as to form
and legality, but that is not approving Special Counsel.
Mr. Pasion: But they were made aware of it and if they
had concerns, they would have just it back to me and said, "We can handle this
ourselves."
COUNCIL MEETING 145 MARCH 27, 2014
Ms. Yukimura: Well, I think perhaps they knew that you
would still have to go through the Special Counsel request process.
Mr. Pasion: Obviously.
Ms. Yukimura: So, "incorporate changes to the report as
required by Special Counsel and/or the Officer-in-Charge." Who is the
Officer-in-Charge?
Mr. Pasion: I am.
Ms. Yukimura: So, they saw that this thing could be
implemented without Special Counsel too? I mean, that is an option, right?
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Kagawa.
Mr. Pasion: Well...
Chair Furfaro: Oh...
Mr. Pasion: Go ahead.
Mr. Kagawa: In following-up with Councilmember
Yukimura, it says "and/or," so it is either or as I read it, or both. It could be Special
Counsel, could by you, Ernie, or ti could be the both of you. That is what "and/or"
means to me.
Mr. Pasion: But it does not say "Special Counsel or," it
says "and/or."
Mr. Kagawa: And...
Mr. Pasion: So, it is...
Mr. Kagawa: No, but what I am saying is that it could
mean you and the Special Counsel or it would be the Special Counsel by himself or
it could be you by yourself.
Mr. Pasion: But the fact that this is a legal matter, I am
not an attorney like Mona or...
Mr. Kagawa: Well, Ernie, I think my question is are you
willing? Mona has said she will not deal with the people who I think we all believe,
are in conflict, Al, First Deputy, or she said no one else in the office. She is just
willing to...at the onset, try and work with you, see if she can satisfy your needs as
meant by this language, and if you or her find yourselves in a predicament that you
cannot work together, there is still problems, at that point I guess maybe one of you
could come back to us. I think, give her a chance is my recommendation. The
Special Counsels that I have seen in recent months, you are not on the Council and
see what I am seeing. I am not happy with ninety percent (90%) of the Special
Counsel work that I have seen in recent months, ninety percent (90%). There is one
(1) attorney in particular that I am happy with and I cannot say that about anyone
else so far. So, saying that you want a Special Counsel to make things better I
think, is not a guarantee. I would try to work with Mona first and if you are not
COUNCIL MEETING 146 MARCH 27, 2014
happy or if you feel that she is not being I guess the private attorney that you want
in this case, then you can come back, but I say, please, Ernie, try and give her a
chance and see if you can work together because like I said, the Special Counsels,
all I know is that the bills come in and your ten thousand dollars ($10,000) will be
probably gone in two (2) weeks or one (1) week and you will be coming back to us
and we will not be happy if we end up in the hundreds of thousands because the
purpose of your audit to save money will actually cost us more money in the end.
She is on staff. She works for us. She is on our payroll. She is willing to be
independent. Can you at least try and work with her on the onset and if there are
still problems, then come back to us?
Mr. Pasion: Well, Councilmember Kagawa, that is the
reason why when I requested the County Attorney to hire the law firm McCorriston
because they were involved in this whole thing so they knew about the whole
situation. So, it should not take that otherwise we are going to reinvent the wheel
again on this thing by going with somebody else.
Mr. Kagawa: So, you have already selected McCorriston?
Mr. Pasion: No, no. McCorriston was involved in the
investigation. So, I requested the County Attorney to possible request that they will
be involved in this project.
Mr. Kagawa: Did they indicate to you that ten thousand
dollars ($10,000) will take care of their whole needs?
Mr. Pasion: No, I did not talk to them. I was going
through the protocol of going through the County Attorney.
Mr. Kagawa: How did you get ten thousand dollars
($10,000)?
Mr. Pasion: Ten thousand dollars ($10,000) was the one
that was...oh, ten thousand dollars ($10,000) was...
Mr. Kagawa: The request.
Mr. Pasion: It was the request of the County Attorney,
not me.
Mr. Kagawa: They requested ten thousand dollars
($10,000)?
Mr. Pasion: Yes, that is right.
Mr. Kagawa: So, I am still not comfortable approving ten
thousand dollars ($10,000), allowing you to proceed with hiring McCorriston, and
not knowing what the end bill will be. I need to know how much are we going to
end up...what is your estimate for McCorriston to represent you throughout this
Fuel Audit ending?
Mr. Pasion: Well, the fact that they were involved...
COUNCIL MEETING 147 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Kagawa: I am not going to give you an open check,
Ernie.
Mr. Pasion: Well, the fact that they were involved to me,
would shorten the time compared to somebody else going into the whole thing
again.
Mr. Kagawa: But you are still not telling me. How much
will it cost in the end? Do you have an estimate?
Mr. Pasion: No, I do not. I wish I was an attorney, but I
am not an attorney.
Mr. Kagawa: Well, you need to get that figure because I
am not approving a blank check, Ernie. I am sorry.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Hooser.
Mr. Hooser: Yes, Mr. Pasion. Part of the challenge I
think, and I said earlier that I thought it was a reasonable request given the
situation in given the circumstances and history with the County Attorney's Office
and I still believe it is a reasonable request. However, looking at the County
Charter and looking under the reasons, typically, outside Counsel would be hired,
looking at that and also trying to understand exactly what this outside Counsel
would do, I do not believe what exactly that person would do. Now you mentioned
McCorriston. It is my understanding that there is a procurement process that is
has to go through and whether McCorriston was hired or not, I am not even sure
about that. So, I think what I am thinking is that if we have a fresh deputy County
Attorney, which we have, who has a lot of experience and will set up a wall between
Mr. Castillo and the rest of the staff, then she could meet with you and evaluate the
needs at the minimum. Just say, "Okay, what do we need?" Then either she can
fulfill that need or she could come to the conclusion that gee, this is going to take all
of this time. I have to relearn all of this. McCorriston already knows it. It might be
more efficient, a better...so we can get somewhat of a better evaluation of what you
needs are and what legal requirements those are, but right now, we get that you
have to have somebody review this. That is loud and clear, but in terms of what the
reviewer consists of and how long it would take is not clear. So, I think the
direction I am leaning towards is that you work with this Deputy who again, has
experience, has been out of the office for a while, and could at the minimum,
evaluate what your needs are and hopefully fulfill those needs, but if not, make
other recommendations if you need specialized law advice that we cannot offer, the
County cannot offer, or if it would be just much more efficient as you seem to think,
to hire a firm that has been involved. Do you have any comments on that? I am
supposed to ask you a question, but that is not really a question.
Mr. Pasion: Well, I was advised that there could be a
Chinese firewall to prevent any pollution between the Deputy and the County
Attorney or things like that. So, I do not know how it works. So, I do not know
what a Chinese firewall is.
Mr. Hooser: I think if I may, that it is not uncommon in
large firms especially and certainly in the County here, that happens. I think a
certain amount of trust will be required obviously and your ability to work together
COUNCIL MEETING 148 MARCH 27, 2014
with her, I think shows some good faith and trust initially and then if you are
proven wrong, then we could go to Plan B maybe.
Mr. Pasion: Okay.
Mr. Hooser: That would be my suggestion. Thank you.
Thank you, Chair.
Chair Furfaro: Other members? JoAnn.
Ms. Yukimura: So, Ernie, the sheet that you have given us
as a scope-of-work says, "the consultant's tasks shall include, but not be limited to"
and in this case it is PKF Hawai`i, LLP as the consultant.
Mr. Pasion: Yes.
Ms. Yukimura: In collaboration Kiamalu Consulting and
Investigations Agency LLC, write a report from the Fuel Audit Investigations
Report that is acceptable for public release. So, I mean, I think earlier before we
went into Executive Session you told Councilmember Kagawa, "Oh, it is not about
potential criminal activity," but this does sound like it is because it is related to the
investigation and you are hiring the services through the consultant. You are
hiring the services of an Investigations Agency.
Mr. Pasion: That is with PKF Hawaii, LLP, not me
hiring them.
Ms. Yukimura: Well, yes, but I mean I think they have the
responsibility to be legally correct and they must have their legal Counsel that
advises them on...because that is the scope-of-work. That is their performance
requirement. A report that is acceptable for public release. So, to me, you already,
through this investigative agency, you have services already or you should. If you
do not, then working with Mona to understand that would seem to be logical, but I
also want to just encourage you to, in good faith, work as far as you can. What the
Chinese wall means to me, is that Mona will act in her professional capacity and
without consulting with others in her office, will work to serve you as her client.
Mr. Pasion: What kind of assurance would I have on that
one?
Ms. Yukimura: You will have the assurance of working with
her and you will be able to tell how professional she is. That is your first interface
to know.
Chair Furfaro: Okay. You were about to make a motion?
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Mr. Kagawa moved to receive C 2014-94 for the record, seconded by
Mr. Bynum.
Chair Furfaro: Discussion now. Mr. Bynum.
COUNCIL MEETING 149 MARCH 27, 2014
Mr. Bynum: Ernie was our Deputy County Clerk here.
These issues of confidentiality, professionalism, and whatever you want to call it,
boundaries or Chinese walls or whatever, are things that we exercise, our staff here
exercises every day. Any new staff person that comes here gets training. I got
training about this when I came here. This is the level of professionalism that we
exhibit everywhere because if I am mad at one of the staff, I am not going to trust
the other staff? I do not believe that Mr. Pasion has any reason whatsoever, I could
have asked him this, to question the integrity of Ms. Clark. To do that blanket
because of who here boss is and you have difficulties there, it is just not acceptable
to me and professional conduct here. A part of me wants to just say, "Okay, fine.
Let us just give him Special Counsel," but that is like saying, "Well, it does not meet
the criteria." The criteria we have here, there is a simple criteria. Is there a
conflict? Is there a reason that we would expend these County funds above and
beyond? I guess that fiduciary responsibility is important too because I was
between appearances and what I think is the right thing to do. Well, I am not gong
to go with appearances. I am going to go with what I think is the right thing to do,
which is at this point, say, "Work with the professionals we have." The office has
not been recused. If we run into a problem, I have faith in the professionalism of
the individuals in this County to do the right thing as outlined by Ms. Clark in her
answers to her questions. So, circumstances may change, but at this point, I do not
think Special Counsel is warranted.
Chair Furfaro: Further discussion? Mr. Kagawa.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you, Chair. I really believe what we
are experiencing is partly due to a growing pains of having the County Auditor's
Office created. I think it is commendable that Mr. Pasion has done the Fuel Audit
investigation Report. It has uncovered some irregularities or improprieties that
were going on. I for one, do not believe that our Mayor is a thief. I have known him
for many years. I think he is of the highest integrity. He is the last person that I
would think would steal gas for his personal self, but corrections need to be done.
Sometimes we follow what was done in the past and I am glad that Mr. Pasion has
basically corrected the way employees treat gas and I think his auditing has led to
having accountability at the base yards. Who knows how much gas has been
missing and I think he is here with a legitimate request that he personally feels is
right. It is in the language here. I find it peculiar that line 3 would include that
though. Like I said, I have done audits before working for a CPA firm with
government audits. We have never had our work reviewed by an attorney to see
what we release or not. When you do an audit, whatever you uncover, it comes out.
It is what it is. If people are shown to have done actions that are not proper, then
again, it is what it is. I think Mr. Pasion's report should be reviewed by himself and
if he has some kind of legal question, it should go to the County Attorney. I think
what has transpired in the months is he has no trust in some of the attorneys there
in some of the advice that they have given, but we have Mona that has stepped up,
is willing to try and help up resolve this situation without having to spend Special
Counsel moneys that I do not know what it is going to amount to. If I knew that it
was just ten thousand dollars ($10,000) and that would be the end of it, I would
approve it right now. I would give Mr. Pasion what he wants being the Auditor,
feeling proud of his audit in what they are releasing, but I have a feeling that this
ten thousand dollars ($10,000) is just the initial request and I am concerned that we
will be adding one (1) or two (2) more zeroes to that number when it ends. So, I will
not be supporting his request today, but I do remain open to hearing back from both
of you in the future because I believe that he does have a legitimate request, but
hopefully, he can work it out with Ms. Clark. Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING 150 MARCH 27, 2014
Chair Furfaro: Further discussion? Mr. Hooser.
Mr. Hooser: Yes, I will be supporting the motion to
receive and believe I think, as Councilmember Chock has mentioned earlier, that at
the end of the day it is about transparency and we need to take this issue of the
Fuel Audit and put it to bed, put it out, get it finalized, have it reviewed, then
distributed to the public, and let the cards fall where they may. People can respond
to it. So, we need to deal with this and the underlying issues again, I believe is a
valid one in terms of the request by Mr. Pasion that the lack of faith, confidence,
and the distrust. This is a serious issue, is how do we function? You see the
difficulty of his office trying to function without confidence and that is the
underlying issue that we have seen to be a recurring theme that we need to deal
with as a County, not just as a Council. Thank you, Chair, for the opportunity to
speak and for running such a long, good meeting.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. Anyone else? JoAnn.
Ms. Yukimura: Yes. I understand Mr. Pasion's distrust of
Mr. Castillo and I believe his intention is to get this Fuel Audit completed, which as
Mr. Kagawa has said, is something that has had already a positive impact on the
County. I do believe that there are resources to meet his need and I have confidence
in Mona Clark, 1) that she will be a consummate professional, 2) that she will keep
her independence and therefore not be in conflict and that if a conflict should
emerge, she will be the first to acknowledge that and seek Special Counsel. So, I
would really request of our Auditor that he work with that schematic and I hope
that he will really get the services that he needs.
Chair Furfaro: Vice Chair.
Mr. Chock: Thank you, Chair. I just wanted to say that
I think this is a good intermediary approach that as stewards of the County can
take to mitigate not only the needs of the Auditor's Office, but also of the County's
budget and unforeseen costs. So, I am supportive of receiving this item and I look
forward to hearing an update from both parties involved and in releasing this Fuel
Audit Report. I am looking forward to seeing that released. Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: On that note, I would like make this motion
to receive a roll call vote, if I may, please.
The motion to receive C 2014-94 for the record, was then put, and carried by
the following vote:
FOR RECEIPT: Bynum, Chock, Hooser, Kagawa,
Yukimura, Furfaro TOTAL— 6,
AGAINST RECEIPT: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Rapozo TOTAL — 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Six (6) ayes.
Chair Furfaro: Thank you. On that note and before we end
the night, I would like to remind everybody that tomorrow we start with the
Departmental Budgets, 9:00 a.m. We go into a pretty demanding period for us. We
start at 9:00 a.m. with the Chair's overview as well as an opportunity to hear from
COUNCIL MEETING 151 MARCH 27, 2014
the Mayor and the Administration from the Mayor's Office, Life's Choices, and also
at some point in time I want to set the tone that at the beginning of each session,
that is when I will be taking public testimony, okay, and that has been my past
practice. I also would like to ask for your approval that earlier today I had
announced the press release of our Deputy County Clerk, Jade, actually being
selected as a finalist in the Pacific Business News' "Women Who Means Business:
Businesswoman of the Year" awards as a nomination. Your work is always
appreciated, but I would like to ask if I may enter the press release into the record
of today's meeting.
The referenced news press release was entered into the record.
ADJOURNMENT.
There being no further business, the Council Meeting adjourned at 8:29 p.m.
gip•spe tfully submitted,
it
J ti, ' . •UNTAIN-TANIGAWA
De s uty County Clerk
:aa