HomeMy WebLinkAbout05/07/2014 Special Council Meeting minutes - Interview SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 7, 2014
The Special Council Meeting of the Council of the County of Kaua'i was called
to order by Council Chair Jay Furfaro, at the Council Chambers, 4396 Rice Street,
Room 201, Lihu'e, Kaua'i, on Wednesday, May 7, 2014 at 9:06 a.m., after which the
following members answered the call of the roll:
Honorable Tim Bynum
Honorable Mason K. Chock, Sr.
Honorable Gary L. Hooser
Honorable Ross Kagawa
Honorable Mel Rapozo
Honorable JoAnn A. Yukimura
Honorable Jay Furfaro
APPROVAL OF AGENDA.
Mr. Rapozo moved for approval of the agenda as circulated, seconded by
Ms. Yukimura, and unanimously carried.
Chair Furfaro: The next item is for public comment for the
Special Council Meeting, not to be confused for the public comment for the
Committee Meeting which will happen a little bit later. The item on the Special
Council Meeting today is one (1) item which is an interview for a Police
Commission. Is there anyone in the audience that would like to testify by Rule 13(e)
before we go to that agenda item? Seeing no one, we will go to Section "E" the
Police Commission interview.
PUBLIC COMMENT.
Pursuant to Council Rule 13(e), members of the public shall be allowed a total of
eighteen (18) minutes on a first come, first served basis to speak on any agenda
item. Each speaker shall be limited to three (3) minutes at the discretion of the
Chair to discuss the agenda item and shall not be allowed additional time to speak
during the meeting. This rule is designed to accommodate those who cannot be
present throughout the meeting to speak when the agenda items are heard. After
the conclusion of the eighteen (18) minutes, other members of the public shall be
allowed to speak pursuant to Council Rule 12(e).
There being no one present to provide public comment, the meeting proceeded
as follows:
INTERVIEW:
POLICE COMMISSION:
• Mary K. Hertog—Term ending 12/31/2015
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 2 MAY 7, 2014
MARY K. HERTOG: Good morning.
Chair Furfaro: Mary, I am going to ask you to introduce
yourself but first if you could make sure that blue light is on.
Ms. Hertog: It is on.
Chair Furfaro: Great. The floor is yours to introduce
yourself and give us a little bit of your background.
Ms. Hertog: Good morning, I am Mary Kay Hertog. My
husband and I arrived here on Kaua`i about twenty-two (22) months ago after I
retired from the Air Force serving thirty-four (34) years on active duty, or almost
thirty-four (34) years. Of that thirty-four (34) years I spent twenty-seven (27) as a
cop. Security Forces are Military Police, you might be more familiar with. I rose up
through the ranks to actually become the leader of that crew from the top cop in the
Air Force where I was responsible for organizing training and equipping about
thirty thousand (30,000) airmen for their missions including getting ready to go to
combat in Afghanistan and Iraq, protecting our bases day-to-day around the world
and nuclear security. I spent about eleven (11) years of my almost thirty-four (34)
year career in various commands, many security force units but I was also given the
opportunity to step outside of the cop career field. When I was a commander of a
wing, one of the largest wings in the Air Force and that is equivalent to being a
Mayor and then I was also promoted and was able to be a Numbered Air Force
Commander where I was in command of four (4) wings in the Air Force. I have a lot
of training background. My responsibility was training about ninety percent (90%)
of the Air Forces specialty including security forces. In my final year I spent back
at the Pentagon, I was on the Security of Defense staff working sexual assault
prevention and response issues. Which I am sure if you see the news or read in the
papers know that it is an extremely difficult problem in the Military, college
campuses, and everywhere is trying to handle as well. That is a little bit about me
and my background and I am happy to be living here in paradise as my husband is
too.
Chair Furfaro: You live in KOloa, am I correct?
Ms. Hertog: Yes we do.
Chair Furfaro: I will open up for some questions starting
with Councilmember Bynum.
Mr. Bynum: Good morning Ms. Hertog. May I call you,
Mary?
Ms. Hertog: Mary Kay, please.
Mr. Bynum: Mary Kay?
Ms. Hertog: Yes.
Mr. Bynum: I am Tim. Outstanding resume. Thank you
for your willingness to serve.
Ms. Hertog: My pleasure.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 3 MAY 7, 2014
Mr. Bynum: One thing I have learned from our Pacific
Missile Range Facility (PMRF) and the Commanders we have had over the years is
when you reach Command positions in the U.S. Military, you got some serious
skills. I am very pleased that you would step up to this position. I have been
lobbying the Mayor to appoint more women in community advocates and bring more
diversity to the board and you fit all those despite having a background in law
enforcement. Thank you for your willingness to serve. I cannot think of a better
candidate.
Ms. Hertog: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Questions? JoAnn, would you like the floor?
Ms. Yukimura: Technicially we should be calling you,
General Hertog, right?
Ms. Hertog: I go by "Mary Kay." If you see me in
uniform, that is okay too.
Ms. Yukimura: Thank you, Mary Kay and I appreciate your
speech recently before the Veterans. I did not realize that you were actually living
here. I thought you were...I did not realize that you were retired. I did not come in
when they introduced you. It is wonderful to have you actually as a resident of
Kaua`i.
Ms. Hertog: Thank you.
Ms. Yukimura: I want to say as a woman to have a woman
like yourself have risen in the Air Force to the level that you have is an amazing
accomplishment.
Ms. Hertog: Thank you. I had a lot of help along the way.
I did not do it by myself, that is for sure.
Ms. Yukimura: I want to honor you for that. Your
understanding of what the duties are, are very complete from what your application
form says. I want to focus in the role of reviewing and dealing with complaints
from the public against the Police Department and its officers. My understanding
of the history of the Police Commission, not this particular Commission but in
general. The Police Commission is meant to be a lay body over a paramilitary body
and an interface between the community and a paramilitary. So, I guess some of
my concern is your knowledge of the community and your understanding of that
role in terms of whether you would be able to understand a community position
versus a military position.
Ms. Hertog: I do not think I would have any problem with
that because even in the military we are dealing with communities. As a Wing
Commander, I was like the Mayor of a small city. Most of my dealings were with
community leaders and understanding how my base affected their community, what
I could do to bring down the noise of the jets, or whatever the case may be. I think
it is very important that we have that kind of interface because the community is
who the Police protect and serve and we want to be able to make sure that they
have a venue to air any kind of complaints they might have with the Police be it
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 4 MAY 7, 2014
unprofessional conduct, excessive use of force, and that is where the Commission
comes in. From what I understand, from reading the Charter, to take a look at the
training aspects, maybe you have a problem because the individual was not
properly trained or maybe you have a serious problem because this individuals
name has come up over and over again. I think the Commission has that
responsibility per its Charter to listen to the public, take their concerns, investigate
it, and see if it has merit that can be substantiated or not substantiated, and then
turn it over to the Police Chief as well.
Ms. Yukimura: You have had experience in your former
positions in dealing with complaints from a community?
Ms. Hertog: Big time.
Ms. Yukimura: You had many?
Ms. Hertog: Absolutely. It could be traffic concerns, hey,
you are blocking the highway that we need to get on to because you are doing ID
checks at the gate, it could be your loud noise complaints from the jets flying over,
or may we are out blowing something out, you know we are training, and we have to
be very sensitive to the community concerns. We cannot operate in a vacuum
anywhere.
Ms. Yukimura: Alright, thank you very much.
Ms. Hertog: You are welcome.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Hooser.
Ms. Hertog: Thank you very much for being willing to
serve in the community like that. I think your record of significance success and
professionally speaks to your ability and I wanted to thank the Mayor publicly for
choosing to appoint you to this position. Did you seek it out or were you sought out?
Ms. Hertog: No, I sought it.
Mr. Hooser: You sought it, okay.
Ms. Hertog: When I arrived here about twenty-two (22)
months ago, I was reading the Garden Island and there were some letters to the
Editor about, "why are there no women on the Police Commission?" I met the
Mayor at the Multiple Sclerosis Proclamation Ceremony. I have MS and I was
unfortunately was diagnosed with it like six (6) months before I retired but I
evidently had it for about ten (10) years and just kind of ignored it and worked my
way through it. When I was at my ceremony I took the opportunity to give him my
biography and say, "hey, I am a volunteer should a position become every
available." Quite frankly I think you need someone to represent the Police
Commission because you have women on the force but not only that your
complainants may be female coming in and it may be a little intimidated for them to
come in and face nothing but males on the Council or on the Commission.
Mr. Hooser: And during your career you obviously, as you
said, dealt with community complaints.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 5 MAY 7, 2014
Ms. Hertog: Yes.
Mr. Hooser: Did you deal with complaints specifically to
military police actions?
Ms. Hertog: No. When was a Wing Commander, it was
anything. It could absolutely anything but when I was a Squadron Commander for
Security Forces and I had some units that were six hundred (600) people strong,
etc., then that focus solely on complaints. I had people coming in and saying, "I
received this ticket for this and I did not do this," or "this person treated me
improperly," "his conduct was very unprofessional," or "I feel they used excessive
force when they apprehended me," I have had that kind of experience dealing with
the public on that.
Mr. Hooser: I assume you also have experience
evaluating other leaders as you would be asked to do with the Police Chief and
others.
Ms. Hertog: I have.
Mr. Hooser: Okay, great. Thank you for your willingness
to serve.
Ms. Hertog: Thank you.
Mr. Hooser: And for reaching out.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Kagawa, you have the floor.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you, Mary Kay for volunteering to
serve. Like all the other Councilmembers, I will be supporting your nomination.
Ms. Hertog: Thank you.
Mr. Kagawa: I just have a few questions.
Ms. Hertog: Sure.
Mr. Kagawa: Were you involved with budgets in your
position as General?
Ms. Hertog: Oh yes, absolutely.
Mr. Kagawa: At the County level we are pretty much
broke. Our Police Department is our largest spender. Their budget is about twenty-
five million dollars ($25,000,000) right now.
Ms. Hertog: Okay.
Mr. Kagawa: And in this Fiscal Year it went up about two
million dollars ($2,000,000) over this current year, so next year's budget it will go
up another two million dollars ($2,000,000). When the County is broke, we cannot
keep having these increases or else there will have to be more taxes added to our
residents. I think one of the jobs I would like to see out of the Police Commission is
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 6 MAY 7, 2014
to help to bring some accountability to the budget process. I do not think the
Council can do it all in a matter of two (2) weeks or so. I think the Police
Commission...I would like them to look at what is good for the Department, what
makes sense, what is good spending, and I would like to see them cut what is not
good spending and what is not in the best interest of the taxpayers.
Ms. Hertog: Sure.
Mr. Kagawa: Are you willing to try and help the
Commission to move in that direction to oversee some of the financial aspects of the
Police Department?
Ms. Hertog: Absolutely. Frankly I am used to dealing
with hundreds and millions of dollars and sometimes billions of dollars of assets
with what we had at our Air Forces bases but it gets down to some days you have to
less with less and not more with less. You might have to do expectation
management. We cannot always respond to every single fender-bender. Maybe you
need to drive into the Police station and have somebody give the paperwork to fill
out versus a cop out on the street to bring in. I am aware that the police force or the
Police Department has expended on a great deal on overtime, you need to peal that
back and take a look at what is causing the overtime? Is it a great number of traffic
accidents? Do you have people that are only trained specifically in one area?
Maybe you only have one traffic accident investigator or two and not one on every
shift so you have to call that person out? There are other things you have to
balance with it too. This is a small Police Department compared to Honolulu Police
Department (HPD) where you have twice as many people and you got a lot of
flexibility. When we had a lot of anti-GMO demonstrations, I mean the County, I
am sure had to have the budget blew up there in terms of what the Police had to
expend in terms of protecting and controlling the crowd? How do we deal with it?
Do we make somebody else pay for that? Do we change shifts? Can we change
hours that people are working? How much overtime is authorized? There are a lot
of things you can do but you got to peal it back layer by layer to find out what the
real problem is.
Mr. Kagawa: Thank you, Mary. It is exactly what I
wanted to hear. It sounds like you have a lot of experience and the energy that is
needed. We need people on Commissions to really step it up now that we have
burned a lot of our reserves and I think now it comes the times where we need to be
more accountable and I like what you bring to us and hopefully you can spread that
message to the other Commissioners. Thank you.
Ms. Hertog: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mr. Rapozo, you have the floor.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you, General, for being here.
Ms. Hertog: Thank you.
Mr. Rapozo: I met you, I guess about twenty (20) months
ago.
Ms. Hertog: Right at a neighborhood community meeting.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 7 MAY 7, 2014
Mr. Rapozo: You were a new resident at a coffee hour out
there in Koloa and it was evident to me that both you and your husband had an
interest to serve the community. I am very happy to see you especially in this
Commission because I do, as Chair of the Public Safety Committee...I got to tell a
story that in 1982, you must have started shortly before 1982...
Ms. Hertog: Actually today is my anniversary of being
commissioned in the Air Force back in 1978 so, yes, I am a few years older than you.
Mr. Rapozo: But in 1982 I attended Lackland for my basic
training in the Air Force and...
Ms. Hertog: That is where I was Wing Commander.
Mr. Rapozo: At Lackland? That was the base where they
trained all the cops.
Ms. Hertog: Exactly, right.
Mr. Rapozo: And that is where they threatened us that if
you failed...I went to telephone school but they said if you failed the fear heights
test, or fail whatever obstacle...whatever you was that is where you would go.
Ms. Hertog: You are going to make a cop, right?
Mr. Rapozo: You would be a cop, yes. I witnessed the
training because they trained all over that base. I remember having no stripes and
then throughout basic having to meet people with two (2) stripes, three (3) stripes,
and the more stripes they had either more nervous you got and then of course when
you started to see the Lieutenants and the Captains, we rarely got to see a General,
but when you did see a General it was just some sense of fear and I never knew you
was a General. When I met you, I think you told me that you retired Air Force but I
do not think you told me that you was the General and that is being very humble
but I saw you a month or so ago at the Vet Center and you were dressed up, you
were the speaker, and I saw the General. I almost passed out. I told my wife, "oh
my gosh," because she was at the community meeting as well and we had both met
you. You said, "She is a General?" Do you know what it takes to be a General in
the Military? I say that because I want to edify what the skill set that you bring
and especially in the field that will serve the Police Commission quite well.
Mr. Kagawa talks a lot about the budget issues and I agree with you. There are
many things that can be done to save the County money as it relates to the Police
Department, Fire Department, every Department but one of the things you will find
different here is the labor unions that you did not have to deal with in the Military.
Ms. Hertog: Actually I did.
Mr. Rapozo: With the cops?
Ms. Hertog: Yes, because we have civilian police as well,
so yes, I am very familiar with union leaders. I used to have a standing
appointment every Friday. They would come into my office and slap down an unfair
labor act on my desk and say, "okay, this is what we are doing here." So, yes, not
just cops but other organizations in the Air Force and the Military fell under the
union.
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 8 MAY 7, 2014
Mr. Rapozo: That is good to know and I am glad you
clarified that. In 1985 I joined the Police Department as well and back then it was
a paramilitary and I know that sounds like a bad word but it is not. Paramilitary —
bring the military structure...
Ms. Hertog: Discipline.
Mr. Rapozo: Exactly, that is what it was. I can tell you
back then you could not call your Sergeant by the first name and it was almost
thirty (30) years ago, you could not call obviously the Lieutenant by their first
name. It was Sergeant, Lieutenant and I had been trained in the military for that
so for me it was easy but I think we have kind of got away from that in some extent
today and over the years, gradually got away from the paramilitary and I am not
saying that every cops should have an M60 50 caliber machine gun in their cars but
I do believe that the discipline needs to be restored. I think the paramilitary
structure and I am hoping that you can take a look at that and as we move forward
with training, I think that is where it starts.
Ms. Hertog: Absolutely.
Mr. Rapozo: Obviously your resume and your explanation
of what you have accomplished leaves me no doubt that you can at least offer that
perspective and suggestions as we move forward. I think it is critical that we do
that. I think we have a great police force, I really do. I think they are sometimes
overworked because we have...I am sure you know, we only have ten (10) beats on
the whole island. We compare our island to different jurisdictions, others would
laugh and say, "How can you service that island with only ten (10) cops?" We do
and we do it well but it is getting harder to do.
Ms. Hertog: Sure.
Mr. Rapozo: I just wanted to bring those things up.
Again, like Gary, I thank the Mayor for appointing or nominating you. I look
forward to a very probably a different Police Commission going forward because you
bring that level of expertise. Obviously you will be supported here and approved. I
encourage your fellow Commissioners to accept you and really appreciate what you
can bring to the table. Thank you very much.
Ms. Hertog: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Anyone else? Go right ahead.
Mr. Chock: After the story it is hard for me to call you
"Mary Kay," I want to call you "General" "General Mary Kay." Based on your
responses, experience, and what I think you will bring is great balance to our Police
Commission, of course, you have my full support. I am looking forward to having
you onboard. Thank you so much for your service.
Ms. Hertog: Thank you.
Chair Furfaro: Mary Kay, I guess it is my turn. First of all,
welcome to our island home which is now your island home. Certainly I look
forward to supporting you and will support you for the Commission. I just want to
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING 9 MAY 7, 2014
share with you a couple of things that for me really standout, my background is
business and management being able to interrupt financials. I have been told that I
am pretty good at that. Let me share with you some of the concerns that I have.
We are entering a grant from the Federal government in the amount of eight
hundred and forty thousand dollars ($840,000) for the Police force which would
allow us at the cost of this Federal grant to add a Police beat of five (5) officers and
one (1) sergeant. The fact of the matter after that grant is finish we then have to
finance that extra beat on our own.
Ms. Hertog: Sure. It is much like the Federal
government, they will give you the startup and you have to sustain it, absolutely.
Chair Furfaro: Right. So, I think you are very familiar with
the fact that my next question is going to be as the demand is to add beats the
question then becomes also understanding how do we sustain that kind of staffing
increases? That is a challenge and I think it starts in July that we are going to
have that opportunity. Also, different than the Honolulu Department who has
twenty million dollars ($20,000,000) worth of overtime in their budget. We have two
point two million dollars ($2,200,000). A lot of that overtime and it has to be refined
is dedicated to the fine job that the Chief has done in building our recruits to fill our
vacancies. He has gone to two (2) recruit classes a year but the net outcome of that
for me has to be then let us reduce our overtime when we fill those staffing guides
because in fact a lot of the overtime is directed that way. Then of course with the
retirements that we have every year, a little more focus on the continuity of
promoting people, identifying high achievers, and so forth which I think you bring
all that experience to the table. Those are the kinds of things that I think that you
will be a big plus for us in supporting the Chief and the Commission and I look
forward to voting for you. I wish you success.
Ms. Hertog: Thank you very much.
Chair Furfaro: Anymore dialogue with Mary Kay?
Ms. Hertog: Thank you, I appreciate the time.
ADJOURNMENT.
There being no further business, the Special Council Meeting adjourned at
9:28 a.m.
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