HomeMy WebLinkAbout2015_0720_Minutes Open_APPROVEDCOUNTY OF KAUAI
Minutes of Meeting
OPEN SESSION
Approved as amended 8/19/15
Board/Committee:
I SALARY COMMISSION
Meeting Date
I July 20, 2015
Location
Mo'ikeha Building, Meeting Room 2A/213
Start of Meeting: 10:37 a.m.
End of Meeting: 11:41 a.m.
Present
Chair Michael Machado. Members: Robert Crowell; Sheri Kunioka -Volz; Cammie Matsumoto; Lenie Nishihira
Also: Deputy County Attorney Matt Bracken; Boards & Commissions Office Staff: Support Clerk Barbara Davis, Administrator Jay
Furfaro
Excused
Members Charles King; Jo Ann Shimamoto
Absent
SUBJECT
DISCUSSION
ACTION
Prior to the start of the meeting, Council Administrative Assistant Eddie
Topenio gave the Oath of Office to Commission Members Robert Crowell and
Camilla Cammie Matsumoto
Call To Order
Chair Machado called the meeting to order at
10:37 a.m. with 5 members present and
welcomed new member Crowell and reappointed
member Matsumoto.
Approval of
Open Session Minutes of November 10, 2014
Ms. Nishihira moved to approve the minutes as
Minutes
circulated. Ms. Matsumoto seconded the
motion. Motion carried 5:0
Business
SC 2015 -01 Election of Chair and Vice Chair for 2015
Ms. Kunioka -Volz volunteered to fill the position of Vice Chair to which
the Chair called for a motion to accept Ms. Kunioka -Volz to the position.
Ms. Nishihira moved to accept the appointment
of Ms. Kunioka -Volz as Vice Chair. Ms.
Matsumoto seconded the motion. Motion
carried 5:0
With no volunteers for the Chair position, Chair Machado did not feel it
was appropriate to nominate someone who was not present.
Ms. Matsumoto moved to defer the election of a
new chair to the next meeting. Ms. Nishihira
seconded the motion. Motion carried 5:0
SC 2015 -02 Information atg hering, review, discussion and possible
Salary Commission
Open Session
July 20, 2015 Page 2
SUBJECT
DISCUSSION
ACTION
decision-making with regard to establishing the maximum cap for salaries
for the fiscal year 2016/2017 for Councilmembers and all officers and
employees included in Section 3 -2.1 of the Kauai County Code
a. Review of Draft Resolution 2014 -1 rejected by the County Council
on January 7, 2015
b. Resolution 2012 -1; Resolution 2012 -2; Resolution 2012 -3;
Resolution
2013 -1; Resolution 2013 -2 as relates to the salaries of County
officers and employees
Mr. Furfaro said in a discussion with the Administration and the Mayor, it
was their thinking based on previous submittals, that it probably would be
best not to submit the Commission's recommendations to Council until
February. Previously it has been timed so that the budget is finalized in
March, after the certified financial report of the County — the CAFR — is
received in December. That is the document where the auditors indicate if
there is any surplus available from the current operating year.
Chair Machado thought that was a good idea saying the Commission needs
time to go through the process, and asked if the Commission would be
getting more information on numbers they can look at to draw from. Mr.
Furfaro said he brought some materials with him, but plans to have a
broader discussion with the Managing Director, the Finance Director and
the Mayor and will prepare to have something for the Commission to look
at for the next meeting. In the meantime Mr. Furfaro distributed
information on the Consumer Price Index as a point for discussion. Staff
also stated that all of the salary comparisons from the neighbor islands used
to formulate the last resolution are available if the Commission wishes to
review the information, making particular note that mainland salaries were
not taken into consideration. Ms. Kunioka -Volz asked if Council received
the reports to which Staff could not recall them getting the comparisons
Salary Commission
Open Session
July 20, 2015 Page 3
SUBJECT
DISCUSSION
ACTION
provided by HR. Ms. Nishihira thought Council did get the comparables
for the neighbor islands because they made comments that Kauai can't pay
as much as Maui or Oahu, but that was not what the Commission was
saying. We were using the figures for comparison, but not trying to bring
them up to that level. The next time a salary resolution is sent to Council it
would be helpful to include the information the Commission uses in their
formulation. Ms. Kunioka -Volz asked for a copy of the report
Councilperson Kuali'i presented about how Kauai was higher in the State
in salaries. Mr. Furfaro said he did not make copies, but he could share that
information, and the higher salaries were not in all categories. These
documents are about stimulating the discussion and not any more than that.
The document listing the 10 points under Strategic Considerations are
items that come up that are important for the County of Kauai with
Retention and Continuity as being important to any business.
Competencies and Comparisons goes around the question of how we
compare to other islands and are the job scopes the same. There are some
definitions of Hawaiian values in the packet that relate to Management
Values /Growth. Mr. Furfaro pointed out under Self- Improvement there are
many positions in the County that are required to go through retraining and
recertification such as attorneys and engineers. Under Leadership
Challenges there has been the question of having a managing director
versus an elected mayor, but in comparing with counties that have
managing directors they did not necessarily have to deal with bargaining
units; they were non -labor related. Financial Planning /Performance — C.P.I.
(Consumer Price Index) is the cost of living which was included on a
different handout. Specialized Field of Knowledge which was shared
earlier, but also deals with specific types of emergencies such as tsunamis,
hurricanes, and tropical cyclones. Value of Benefit Dressings - what do we
actually reimburse the department head for - their training, recertification
and so forth - this could be part of the Commission's discussion. And with
the upward appraisal for performance you are looking at people's
Salary Commission
Open Session
July 20, 2015 Page 4
SUBJECT
DISCUSSION
ACTION
commitment to be inspired to be in this community.
Mr. Furfaro stepped out of the room to make copies of the Comparison of
Executive Pay Rates between the counties, which they had referred to
earlier. Ms. Kunioka -Voltz said this report was a strong point in rejecting
the Commission's proposal. Chair Machado thought that anything the
Commission proposes now will be under scrutiny. Ms. Nishihira felt that in
her first year she had been blindsided because she thought the Resolution
was being rejected because it was too low. She questioned how they could
not accept something that was proposed seven years ago; any new studies
would only show it going up. She continued by saying when they were
asked if the study (the Nash Report) had been updated Ms. Kunioka -Volz
questioned why they would spend the money to do another study only to
find the recommended wages were higher than what the Council was
willing to accept. Ms. Kunioka -Volz thought Councilmember Kuali'i's
report was real surprising, but he never disclosed where he got the material
from. Ms. Nishihira said the Councilmember had even referred to the
Federal, but she knows the Service Contract Act's salaries are so much
higher. Ms. Kunioka -Volt stated there was even a councilmember who
changed his vote after the discussion. Ms. Nishihira said maybe Council
doesn't understand that the Commission is only setting the limits, but Ms.
Kunioka -Volz said when she reminded him of that he got very upset about
it.
Ms. Nishihira said maybe that is why they can't attract managers for the
DOW (Department of Water). At least if you raise the limits to be market
value you have the latitude to attract and/or retain people.
Mr. Crowell thought the Council took the Resolution and the budget, and
made it sound like this was what was controlling the budget; this is such a
small portion of the total package when you look at the bargaining units.
Salary Commission
Open Session
July 20, 2015 Page 5
SUBJECT
DISCUSSION
ACTION
Upon Mr. Furfaro's return and the distribution of the Comparison of Pay
Rates, Ms. Kunioka -Volz acknowledged that it was the same report the
Commission obtained through HR last year, and further stated that
Councilmember Kuali'i had presented some other data (at the Council
meeting) that showed the reverse of this comparison. The Comparison
report shows Kauai being a lot lower than the other counties. Mr. Furfaro
did not believe Mr. Kuali'i shared his report with the Board, but he will call
Mr. Kuali'i to get further information from him. If Mr. Kuali'i presented
that information at the Council meeting Chair Machado asked if that would
not be part of the minutes. Mr. Furfaro said yes, it would be part of the
record.
Ms. Nishihira referred to Council's questioning if the Commission had
updated the study to which we told them we did not see the expense as
being justified because we were presenting numbers that were presented
in'08 and anything subsequent to that would be higher. Is that something
the Commission should look into? Staff noted that the Nash Report was not
used in its considerations as the Commission wanted to make their
comparisons from within what the other islands were doing. Mr. Furfaro
said he did pull the August 2014 State Department's Labor and Industrial
Relations Report, but wanted to check with the Commission before
distributing it to them. Chair Machado thought the report would be helpful.
Ms. Kunioka -Volz said the other positions are out of the Commission's
control, but the Comparison does have the positions the Commission makes
the decisions for. Mr. Furfaro said he understood and pointed out those
positions across the State are included in the document. Staff asked the
Commission what reports they would like to have made available to them.
Chair Machado thought anything they could look at would be helpful, and
agreed that the 2010 report Mr. Furfaro had would be helpful with the
comparisons and the timeframe differences.
Salary Commission
Open Session
July 20, 2015 Page 6
SUBJECT
DISCUSSION
ACTION
Ms. Kunioka -Volz thought it would be important to look at why the
Council rejected the proposal; what were the justifications they used
because the Commission will not be able to make any headway unless they
can address those issues. Mr. Furfaro agreed to review the Council
meeting minutes, which might follow along with some of the ten points he
provided. Chair Machado asked if the Commission wanted to review the
draft Resolution rejection now, or wait until the next meeting when they
have the other information on hand.
Mr. Crowell said there was something else he wanted to address and it
might be more for the County Attorney. The Commission has always had
difficulty with the police chief and fire chief positions and he does not
know if it would be this Commission to propose it, but those positions are
usually filled with ex- firemen or ex -cops, and those coming through the
ranks make way more than the chief today. The question is what if you
pulled the two chiefs and maybe the deputies out of this category so they
are no longer appointed. Then bump up their salary, and because they are
usually retirees filling these positions, let them find their own benefit
package so we can attract candidates for these types of positions. Mr.
Crowell explained that the deputies of police and fire both went back to the
ranks so they can make more money. The two chiefs have both retired
from former positions so what would it take to propose a change of that
nature for these two positions. They would still be the department head but
a contracted employee instead of being part of this procedure.
Attorney Bracken said this Commission has the authority to make changes
in the salaries and benefits. If they are removed from this Commission's
authority it would have to be an amendment to the Charter. Chair Machado
asked if the Salary Commission could make a recommendation for that
consideration to which Attorney Bracken said they could make such a
Salary Commission
Open Session
July 20, 2015 Page 7
SUBJECT
DISCUSSION
ACTION
recommendation to the Charter Review Commission. Staff suggested they
would also need to check the Hawaii Revised Statutes to make sure those
positions are not inter -woven into how the Charter is set up. Ms. Kunioka-
Volz thought the reason they keep coming up with problems with those two
departments is because they have separate unions that only bargain for that
job category, whereas the other positions belong to unions that have
multiple positions. In one of our past discussions it seemed there was a lot
of working together with the union because a police commissioner had
admitted he had been from the union, and how they would use the chief's
salary to negotiate the police salaries so it was an endless thing. They were
telling us we should increase the chief's salary because the rank and file
were higher, and yet the rank and file will increase their salary based on the
cap on the chief's salary. It was mentioned in that meeting that the rank and
file positions are out of our control, and they are what is driving the
justification for the increase in those two salaries. Mr. Crowell said there is
no doubt those two unions hold us hostage every negotiating period; public
safety is imminent, but he is just trying to figure a way how the chief can
make more money than his rank and file.
Mr. Furfaro suggested perhaps he should bring some of that salary
information for the rank and file positions for discussion. Chair Machado
thought it would help because it is the inversion problem but how can they
solve it. There was talk at one time of setting the chief's wage at 10%
above the highest rank and file, but then do you set it above the base salary
or what he gets per year. Some of the rank and file get $150,000 including
their overtime, and if you put 10% on that it is quite a bit of a jump. Ms.
Kunioka -Volz said every department, if there is quite a bit of OT in rank
and file, will make more; it is a problem of managing the OT. It is built into
the Fire Department where they have rank- for -rank so if a captain takes off
another captain has to fill that position. Ms. Nishihira did not think it was a
unique problem and other counties have it. Mr. Crowell said the other
Salary Commission
Open Session
July 20, 2015 Page 8
SUBJECT
DISCUSSION
ACTION
counties' police and fire chiefs are set relatively higher than the rest of the
department heads. If you look at bumping them up then they would be even
higher than the Mayor and how do you justify that. Chair Machado
questioned when does it get to a point that the OT exceeds the hiring of a
new full time employee? There would not be an OT problem if there were
enough workers to do the actual work at straight time. It seems if there is
that much OT it would warrant another full time employee. Ms. Kunioka-
Volz thought there had been a problem with the recruitment process and
heard it took a long time from when they applied to their being hired. Mr.
Furfaro said the chief of police has done an excellent job in being able to
fill those vacancies. Several years ago there were as many as 20 vacancies
on the police force and there was one recruitment class a year. Over the last
four years the chief has changed it to two recruitment classes and believed
as of a year ago the vacancies were down to about 9. Part of it is there is a
very long, long procedure with background checks. The Fire Department
has not had that much of a challenge in filling their vacancies. In looking at
the budget, the Fire and Police Departments makeup around 49% of PTE
associated to the County's budget. With the new automated rubbish trucks,
Public Works has reduced their OT tremendously. Mr. Furfaro said he
would provide the schedule of the police officers' pay for grade for the next
meeting. Ms.,Matsumoto asked if it would be possible to look at the
overtime people received in the last few years to see if there something to
help the Commission look at amounts that people receive. Also if you look
at the police chief and the fire chief and then the mayor's salary — why are
they all the same? Ms. Kunioka -Volz said that was because the police and
fire chiefs received their raise and the mayor froze his. Ms. Matsumoto said
it would be interesting to explore the idea of taking those two positions out
to help clarify the salaries of other positions.
Mr. Crowell said in the history of the two chiefs' positions the only people
you can attract are from either within the department, which it is now very
Deleted: Nishihara
Salary Commission
Open Session
July 20, 2015 Page 9
SUBJECT
DISCUSSION
ACTION
difficult to attract them, or it is usually a retiree. If it is a retiree he may not
need the benefits that we would normally budget for them. Ms. Kunioka-
Volz is not aware of what the current fire chief's benefits are from the
private sector, but the benefits stop for the police when they come back.
Mr. Crowell said it wouldn't if he was a contractor, he would continue to
get whatever he is due from the City and County of Honolulu's or ERS so
they would not need to budget for benefits. Ms. Nishihira thought under
Hawaii employment laws you can't make them a contractor. Mr. Crowell
asked what it would take to change that if that is the law. Ms. Nishihira
said it is State laws, employment laws, and the difference in being a
contractor, which has a certain definition and works independently, and a
full time employee. Ms. Matsumoto thought there were some positions that
are excluded from bargaining units. Ms. Nishihira said they differentiate
between hourly and salaried, and they don't want people to get around that
because they don't pay employment taxes with a contractor. Ms. Kunioka-
Volz said the two chiefs' positions are appointed by commissions. Mr.
Furfaro said planning, police, fire (liquor, water, civil service) appointments
are made by commissions. The Mayor is an ex- officio to those
commissions; he does not have a vote but he is allowed to have discussions
about personnel items. Mr. Furfaro asked Attorney Bracken to check on
whether you can qualify someone to be a candidate for a position based on
the fact they are a retiree. Attorney Bracken agreed that might run into
discrimination situations. Mr. Crowell said that was not what he was
saying only that in the past they have been retirees. He was suggesting a
way to show the Council that they can afford a higher paid person by taking
his benefits out of the picture, and they will no longer be budgeting his
benefits in with his salary. It does not matter who applies for the job; the
person knows they are not getting 21 days of vacation or 21 days of sick
leave or whatever else they get.
Mr. Furfaro said in looking at the mayor's salary there was a point that the
Salary Commission
Open Session
July 20, 2015
Page 10
SUBJECT
DISCUSSION
ACTION
mayor, on his own initiative, took a salary cut during the furloughs, and he
does not know if the mayor has ever been caught up. Ms. Kunioka -Volz
said that was what the Resolution was supposed to have done by bringing
him and his staff back up. The Commission needs to understand better why
the Council rejected it, and what their reasoning was. Mr. Furfaro said he
would try to get the transcripts, which are public record, along with the
extractions of the names of what certain pay rates were for certain officers
for overtime earnings and CM Kuali'i's verbal report. Asked if any of the
positions on the Salary Resolution are eligible for overtime the response
was no.
Announcements
Mr. Machado stated he would not be available for the meetings tentatively
scheduled for August 17 and September 20. Mr. Crowell is not available on
August 24. Staff will check other meeting patterns to include possible
afternoon meetings and Tuesdays or Wednesdays and get back to all
Commission members for verification with their schedules.
Adjournment
Ms. Matsumoto moved to adjourn the meeting at
11:41 a.m. Mr. Crowell seconded the motion.
Motion carried 5:0
Submitted by:
Reviewed and Approved by:
Barbara Davis, Support Clerk Michael Machado, Chair
() Approved as circulated. ( ) Approved with amendments. See minutes of meeting.