HomeMy WebLinkAbout2015_0928_Minutes Open_APPROVEDCOUNTY OF KAUAI
Minutes of Meeting
OPEN SESSION
Approved as circulated 10/26/15
Board /Committee:
CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION
Meeting Date
September 28, 2015
Location
Mo'ikeha Building, Meeting Room 2A /213
Start of Meeting: 4:00 pm
End of Meeting: 5:25 pm
Present
Chair Jan TenBruggencate; Vice Chair Joel Guy. Members: Mia Ako; Ed Justus; Allan Parachini; Patrick Stack; Cheryl Stiglmeier
Also: Deputy County Attorney Philip Dureza; Boards & Commissions Office Staff. Support Clerk Barbara Davis; Administrator Jay
Furfaro; County Clerk Jade Fountain - Tanigawa; Deputy County Clerk Scott Sato
Excused
Absent
SUBJECT
DISCUSSION
ACTION
Call To Order
Chair TenBruggencate called the meeting to
order at 4:00 p.m. with 7 Commissioners
resent.
Approval of
Regular Open Session Minutes of August 24, 2015
Mr. Justus moved to approve the minutes as
Minutes
circulated. Mr. Parachini seconded the motion.
Motion carried 7:0.
Business
CRC 2015 -02 Staff's update on status of County Clerk's Office verif y g
accuracy of 2014 Codified Charter for certification for continued Charter
Commission's identifying and proposing non - substantive changes to the
Charter (On- going)
Staff noted the County Clerk's Office has indicated their target date is now
October.
CRC 2015 -03 Chairman's update on the status of the preamble (On- going)
County Clerk Fountain - Tanigawa said they had spoken with the Office of
Elections on Oahu to try to locate the actual ballot that the preamble was
supposed to have been proposed on, and they could not locate it in their
warehouse or in their archives. Absent of that the County Clerk's Office
will be requesting a formal opinion from the County Attorney's Office
whether it should be listed on the ballot, or if they feel comfortable with the
background information provided from the Clerk's Office to have it inserted
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in the Charter.
CRC 2015 -04 Memorandum dated 8/27/15 soliciting input from the Maw
County Council and Department Heads asking them to review their portions of
the Charter and to report back to the Commission for consideration of any
changes desired
Staff stated there will be delays in receiving information as the request was
also given to some of the Commissions who only meet once a month and
need to place the request on their agenda; they were requested to respond
back to the Charter Commission by the end of this year. Responses
received will be placed on the Charter Commission's agenda.
CRC 2015 -06 Request from Chair TenBruggencate to place on the agenda the
issue of Council Districting
Chair TenBruggencate said he placed this item on the agenda at the request
of Commissioner Stack. Chair TenBruggencate pointed out the issue of
districting for County Council candidates has been considered several times
by several Charter Commissions. Since there is not a specific proposal
before the Commission the Chair deferred to Commissioner Stack.
Mr. Stack agreed that this issue has been kicked around more than once or
twice, but he understands that for each successive motion to be passed it has
been approved by a higher and higher percentage. Mr. Stack said he is not
a dyed in the wool districting person but there are certain aspects in our
County that do not have any home favorites. The Commission does not
need to go through the details now because if this body gets serious about
districting it could fall back on the last opportunity they had for districting,
and use that language and those geographical areas for representation.
Chair TenBruggencate said his recollection from the last time they dealt
with districting there were so many different proposals they could not
develop a majority around any one. If this moves forward the Commission
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would need to rally around a single proposal.
Mr. Guy remembered it differently. The Commission did look at different
districts, and he applauded Commissioner Justus for all the work he did.
The Subcommittee solicited information from the public, but for the new
Commissioners who did not go through that lengthy process it is a hard talk
to have. Mr. Guy said he learned more about districts than he thought he
would ever want to know. There was one district proposal that made it to
the table, but it did not pass. This issue has been on the ballot multiple
times, and it is getting closer and closer to passing. It seems like the people
are wanting it more and more, and clearly there is a desire for it, so we
should let the voters vote on it.
Mr. Justus said he did write up some language that was used the last time
this was presented to the Commission with the only difference he was
proposing 5 districts with 2 at -large seats. In 2006 it was proposed as 3
districts and 4 at- large, basically using the State legislative districts. When
districting was first proposed in the `80s there was a greater number of
people that did not want it. The last time it was on the ballot it was about
131 (sic) votes away from passing. In researching how the various districts
voted it seemed the outlying communities typically almost always voted in
favor, but Lihu`e and Kapa`a did not. Looking at the voting numbers from
this past Council race had there been a district seat the lady from the North
Shore would have been elected as a district candidate. The point is there
was a district on the Island that had a candidate who spoke their voice, but
did not get elected. It says there are communities that want to have
someone from their area to represent them.
Mr. Parachini said personally as a voter he is still on the fence. He has had
a number of conversations with members of the public, and was reminded it
has been on the ballot in the sequence laid out, but he thinks it is something
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the voters deserve to be able to give their voice to. It might be a good idea
if the Commission can come to some consensus of what to propose to the
public. Mr. Parachini said he is drawn to the 3 district idea because if it is
more than 3 they have to establish an apportionment mechanism for the
County, and if there was an apportionment battle it could be litigated for
decades. If something is to be proposed Mr. Parachini thought it should be
3 districts and 4 at- large, but he was not saying it was the only practical
way to do it. Mr. Parachini felt this could also present a good opportunity
to consider 4 year terms for all County Councilmembers, but terms would
need to be staggered in the beginning.
Mr. Guy asked if a 2 year district and a 4 year at -large term would help with
the staggering. Mr. Parachini said his initial feeling was that it should be 4
years for all of them.
Ms. Ako said before she can vote she needs to have this issue vetted as she
does not have enough information to make a decision. Chair
TenBruggencate assured Ms. Ako that the Commission would not take a
final vote on this issue today. Chair TenBruggencate requested that Staff
make available the Sub - committee reports on districting to the
Commissioners. Mr. Guy stated there were some very passionate people for
and against districting at the various meetings, so these conversations are
not meant to put anyone on the spot, but to start the conversations so
intelligent decisions can be made. Mr. Guy also pointed out there was no
proposal to be voted on. Mr. Parachini agreed they need to cover the base
of getting public input on this. Mr. Justus recalled that the public wanted
districts, but no one could come to a clear consensus as to which proposal
they wanted. Chair TenBruggencate pointed out that there was also a
substantial number of people who did not want districting period. Chair
TenBruggencate asked if the Commission wanted to make a single proposal
now or defer this to the next meeting,
Ms. Sti lmeier moved to defer to the next meeting.
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Mr. Parachini seconded the motion. Motion
carried 6:1 (nay-Justus)
CRC 2015 -07 Request from a member of the public via Chair
TenBruggencate to again consider a proposed amendment to allow county
board and commission members to appear before other county boards,
commissions, or agencies
Chair TenBruggencate said this request came from a member of the public,
Dennis Esaki, who is out of State today, but did send a letter. A second
letter was received from the president and CEO of the Kauai Chamber of
Commerce, Mark Perriello. Chair TenBruggencate said a ruling of the
Board of Ethics says if you are a member of a board or commission, even
though you are a volunteer, you are an officer of the County. The Charter
says if you are an officer of the County you may not appear in behalf of
private interest before any board, commission, or agency of the County.
The proposal from the Chamber of Commerce and Mr. Esaki is to amend
that section to say if you are a board member or commissioner you cannot
appear on behalf of a private interest before the panel that you sit on, but
you can do so before other agencies. One of the suggestions is there are
people who will not serve on boards or commissions because they depend
for their livelihoods on appearing before County boards, commissions, and
agencies, and as a result we lose the opportunity to take advantage of their
volunteer service. Chair TenBruggencate drafted language to try to
accomplish this, which adds the additional piece of information that if they
are allowed to appear they would simply need to disclose that they serve on
a board or commission. The suggestion is to continue to make it impossible
for members of boards and commissions to appear on behalf of private
interest before their own commission, but to allow them to do business with
the County outside the commission they serve on.
Mr. Parachini asked the Attorney to clarify what private interest means in
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this context. Attorney Dureza said as a general definition, since he has not
researched this, would be something that is not governmental, so it could be
corporations or `for' or `non' profit organizations. Chair TenBruggencate
said the current language prohibits an attorney from representing a paying
client, or even a non - paying client, before boards or commissions if that
attorney serves on a board or commission. The suggestion has been that
those people are not offering themselves up for County service because it
would impact their ability to make a living. Ms. Ako questioned County
legal representation in the capacity of a board or commission member
versus when not acting in the capacity as a commissioner to which Attorney
Dureza said basically if they are doing something as an official duty as an
officer for the County they would be "covered" by the County Attorney's
Office.
Chair TenBruggencate noted that the language from the 2008 Charter
amendment was included in the meeting packet, but that proposal was
turned down by the voters. Mr. Justus thought they should make it clear in
the language to say "provided however unpaid or volunteer County board
and commission members may appear ". He thought because they didn't
state the members are unpaid a person who has no concept of County
governance might naturally think that board or commission members are
paid. Mr. Stack said they should clarify the language to read "Kaua`i
county boards and commissions" because the way it is written it could be
any board — it could be the Big Island's board. Mr. Parachini asked for
further clarification on private interest — if he is a chair or an officer of a
community association and the community association is displeased with
the level of police patrol service and decides to complain to the police
commission about this, he could not do this, correct? Chair
TenBruggencate said it was his understanding that the way the Charter is
being interpreted today that is correct.
Mr. Justus so moved.
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Chair TenBruggencate called for a motion.
Chair TenBruggencate clarified the motion by adding they include Mr.
Justus' suggestion they use the term "volunteer" in the ballot question. Mr.
Justus said the exact words would be "provided however unpaid or
volunteer County board and commission members ". The revised 2015
proposal from Chair TenBruggencate which was distributed at the start of
the meeting does not include the actual Charter language — only the ballot
question. Mr. Justus asked if he could remove his motion and just use the
language provided in the ballot question as the language for the motion.
Chair TenBruggencate pointed out the language is different (in the 2008
and 2015 proposals).
Staff suggested deferring this item so it can be brought back the next month
in Ramseyer form for the Commission to review. Chair TenBruggencate
said he tried to make the 2015 proposal more palatable, since the 2008
proposal failed, by including a disclosure. Chair TenBruggencate said if
Mr. Justus was planning to ad lib it would be better to have something
written.
Mr. Parachini asked if it would be reasonable to suggest that the Chair, as
the author of the 2015 proposal, prepare amended language as Mr.
Parachini is not comfortable voting on something where there is not
Mr. Justus move to defer to the next month. Mr.
something to vote on. Could the Commission see some proposed Charter
Parachini seconded the motion. Motion carried
language next month?
7:0
CRC 2015 -08 Proposed amendment from Commissioner Justus on Article 111,
Section 3.06 and 3.07 D, and Article XXIX, Sections 29.01 -06, as relates to the
Compensation of Councilmembers and the Organization of Council; Officers;
Rules; Employees
Mr. Justus said he proposed the amendment since he has heard it batted
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about over the years. The language about compensation mirrors the
language that it states for board and commission members. This proposes
that councilmembers would not receive a salary or monetary compensation,
but they would be given payment for expenses that happen during their
work. In order for that to happen there would also be changes in the section
for the Salary Commission and the Rules of the Council, because if they are
not going to receive any compensation they cannot suspend them without
pay for a month if they have done something wrong. In studying the
formation of the Constitution one of the things that kept coming up is the
idea that anyone who is running for a legislative office should not be paid;
these should be people who want to see the betterment of government, and
not be there just to collect a salary. Also people often complain they cannot
get to Council meeting because they happen in the middle of their work
day. Writing letters or emails are not as effective as someone in the room
voicing their opinion. If you remove the salary of the councilmembers you
will be getting people who are there because they want to be there, and are
there to hear the community's voice. They would probably try to hold
meetings at night, so it does not interfere with their jobs, and you would get
more participation from the public because they can actually come to the
Council meetings and voice their opinions. Mr. Justus said he did not know
what the ramifications would be, but he would like the Commission to
discuss this.
Ms. Ako said a lot of thought had gone into the proposal, but the reality is it
costs a lot of money to live in paradise. Currently what the elected officials
on the Council make is not enough to sustain them, whereby some of them
work two jobs. To ask for this elected position to be non -paid is focusing
on a select group of individuals that can afford to not work. While it may
be a great idea, the reality is Ms. Ako did not think it could be done, and
very few would throw their hat in the ring. Mr. Stack asked how Ms. Ako
knew that people would have to get a salary to maintain their position. Ms.
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Ako said not everyone in the County Council works two jobs, but the pay
they currently make is not a living wage.
Mr. Parachini said there are at least two members that have other jobs to
which Chair TenBruggencate said it is more than that. It is essential to
focus on what they ask County Councilmembers to do, and there is a lot to
those jobs well beyond showing up for a regular meeting every two weeks,
special meetings, committee meetings, and public hearings. There is a great
deal of constituent interaction involved in being a councilmember. The
demands of the job are so great we would be risking putting ourselves in the
position of paying nothing and getting nothing. There has been debate on
whether being on the County Council is or is not a full time job, and Mr.
Parachini's impression is that it is far closer to a full time job than not. It
would be a very bad bargain.
Ms. Stiglmeier does not want to assume individuals have enough money to
be able to volunteer for a County Council position, and feels that the time
that is put in for being able to serve our community is worth some type of
compensation. The compensation they currently get is not a great amount,
but in order to get individuals to take the position that much more seriously
they are being compensated to complete certain tasks. If the monetary
compensation is taken away will individuals take their job as seriously as
they do? If they don't have to work, and as sitting councilmembers have
their meetings at night, possibly they might have more interaction. But they
deserve some sort of compensation because they work hard for us. We take
away that compensation what quality of work will we get from them.
Mr. Stack said you only have to look to this room to see that altruism and
unpaid volunteerism works. Ms. Stiglmeier agreed. Mr. Stack stated that
he is very, very proud to be part of the Commission of this County when he
looks around the table and sees who he is colleagues with, and he would
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continue to do this whether he was paid $25 a day or zero, which is
currently zero. We all owe a great debt to these institutions, and we need to
support them. There are very talented people on this island with a wealth of
experience that would be happy to donate their time, and making this a non -
paid enterprise is to reduce it or elevate it to what we are doing right now.
Mr. Justus said across the United States there are many municipalities that
do not pay their council; communities of our size and larger. It is a
testament that people do step up to the plate.
Mr. Guy questioned if someone is broke do they not get to run? If you do
not have that luxury, but you really want to do good for your community it
would be hard to run; you would be excluding the people who can't afford
it. Chair TenBruggencate said it was fair to say that in at last the first four
months of the year the County Council spends inordinate amounts of time
working on the budget. It is something you could not hold another job and
do that unless you had a very civic minded employer. Mr. Justus said
whether the Council is part-time or full -time the Charter says they are part-
time, so it might be worth discussing amending the Charter to make them
full -time positions because it is a full -time job.
Ms. Fountain - Tanigawa clarified the point made about the Council being a
full -time versus part-time job noting that although the Charter states they
are part-time the ERS (Employee Retirement System) considers them full-
Mr. Justus moved to accept this item as a
time employees.
Charter amendment. Mr. Stack seconded the
motion.
Roll Call Vote: Nay -Guy; Abstain - Justus; Nay -
Parachini; Aye- Stack; Nay - Stiglmeier; Nay -
TenBruggencate; Nay -Ako
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Motion Failed 5 Nay; 1 Aye; 1 Abstain
CRC 2015 -09 Proposed amendment from Commissioner Justus on Article III,
Section 3.07 D as relates to disorderly or contemptuous behavior by
councilmembers
Mr. Justus referred to a prior discussion on what the Council's authority is over its
members. Mr. Furfaro had said the Council not only has the authority to suspend
pay, but to expel from the meeting, and the plain reading of the Charter does not
explicitly state that the Council has the ability to expel its own members for
disorderly conduct. The current Charter says (Section 3.07 D) ( ... ) The
presiding officer or the council by a majority vote may expel any other person who
is guilty of disorderly, (...) conduct (... ). For the sake of clarity in the Charter
so it cannot be refuted in the future it could be made clearer that the Council does
have the authority to expel one of its members from the meeting for disorderly
conduct.
Mr. Furfaro clarified that he had referenced the Council having the ability, with a
super majority, to reprimand members for their conduct behavior as well as having
the ability to suspend them for any period of time with the consequences being an
interruption in their pay. Further clarification can be obtained from the County
Clerk, but it does exist. Mr. Justus said he was not clear on what Mr. Furfaro said.
Mr. Furfaro said Council Rules have those options regarding reprimand with a
super majority. Mr. Parachini said the Charter language is consistent with what
Mr. Furfaro just said, and he read the first sentence of Section 3.07 D in which it is
stated. Ms. Ako thought Mr. Justus had added another layer to what was cited in
the Charter in which they suspend pay, but also expel them from a meeting.
Referencing the Council rules and with the two thirds vote that the majority can
suspend a member's pay for up to a month, Ms. Fountain - Tanigawa was asked by
suspending the pay does that also mean that councilmember is expelled from the
Chamber. Ms. Fountain - Tanigawa said it does not state it clearly, and Council
rules can also be amended through a Resolution. It implies if they are not
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attending a meeting or getting paid then they don't come in and their vote is not
counted. The Rules don't explicitly state that, but she does not have the Rules in
front of her to be able to quote. Ms. Fountain - Tanigawa did not think it would
hurt to explicitly state that in the Charter, but the Rules could cover it also. It
would help to have it better clarified in the Council Rules, which could address
Mr. Justus moved to receive the proposal. Ms.
whether it was a committee meeting or a Council meeting.
Stiglmeier seconded the motion.
Mr. Guy asked permission to address another question to Ms. Fountain - Tanigawa
in which he said the Rules can be changed, the Charter can't. Put it in the Charter
so it is crystal clear into the future. Ms. Fountain- Tanigawa said if that is what
they intend, but they additionally need to think about whether it is the entire
membership of a Council Committee, or the full sitting Council, but that can also
be covered in the Council Rules.
Roll Call Vote: Nay -Ako; Nay -Guy; Abstain-
Justus; Nay - Parachini; Nay- Stack; Nay -
Stiglmeier; Aye- TenBruggencate
Motion to receive failed 5 -Nay; 2 -Aye; 1-
Abstain
Mr. Justus moved to accept the proposal for the
sake of discussion. Mr. Guy seconded the
motion.
Mr. Justus moved to amend the language to read: The council may, upon an
affirmative vote of at least two- thirds of its entire membership, expel from a
meeting any member for disorderly or contemptuous behavior in its presence.
Following discussion on committee meetings versus full Council meetings, Mr.
Justus said he had no amendment to make.
Further discussion took place on how specific the language needed to be on
expulsion and suspension of pay. Mr. Justus suggested to make it more linear
perhaps the second sentence in the proposal should be moved to the beginning of
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the section so they first have the power to expel, and then the power to suspend
without pay, and then also have the power to expel anyone else in the room who
Mr. Justus moved to amend the motion by
is guilty.
putting the middle sentence of proposed Section
3.07 D at the beginning. Mr. Guy seconded the
motion.
Ms. Ako asked if "disorderly" or "contemptuous" behavior was defined in the
Motion to amend carried 7:0
Council Rules. Ms. Fountain - Tanigawa indicated no.
Main motion as amended carried 4:2 (Nay -
Parachini, TenBruggencate)
Amended proposal to be sent to the County
Attorney's Office for approval of form and
legality.
Announcements
Next Meeting: Monday, October 26, 2015 — 4:00 p.m.
Adjournment
A motion was made to adjourn the meeting at
5:25 p.m. followed by a second. Motion carried
7:0
Submitted by:
Barbara Davis, Support Clerk
O Approved as circulated.
O Approved with amendments. See minutes of
Reviewed and Approved by:
meeting.
Jan TenBruggencate, Chair