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HomeMy WebLinkAboutOctober 1, 2015KAUAI COUNTY HISTORIC PRESERVATION REVIEW COMMISSION Lihu`e Civic Center, Mo`ikeha Building, Meeting Room 2A/2B MINUTES A regular meeting of the Kauai County Historic Preservation Commission (KHPRC) was held on October 1, 2015 in the Lihu`e Civic Center, Mo`ikeha Building, Meeting Room 2A/2B. The following Commissioners were present: Chairperson Pat Griffin, Anne Schneider, Stephen Long, Charlotte Hoomanawanui, Victoria Wichman, and Larry Chaffin Jr. The following Commissioners were absent: Althea Arinaga, David Helder, and Kuuleialoha Santos. The following staff members were present: Planning Department — Kaaina Hull, Shanlee Jimenez; Deputy County Attorney Jodi Higuchi - Sayegusa; Office of Boards and Commissions — Administrator Jay Furfaro, Support Clerk Darcie Agaran. CALL TO ORDER The meeting was called to order at 3:00 p.m. APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA Ms. Griffin: If there are no objections as we move to approve the agenda, I would like to place Items C.2., C.3., and C.4. at the end of the business today, rather than where they appear now. With that, may I have a motion to approve the agenda? Ms. Schneider: I make a motion that we approve the agenda. Mr. Chaffin Jr.: Second. Ms. Griffin: Thank you. Ms. Schneider moved and Mr. Chaffin seconded the motion. All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote) Opposed? Hearing none, the motion carries 6.0. APPROVAL OF THE AUGUST 6, 2015 MEETING MINUTES Ms. Griffin: The Approval of the August 6, 2015 Meeting Minutes. Are there any corrections? Hearing none. May I have a motion to approve? Ms. Wichman: Move to approve. October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 2 Ms. Schneider: I second the motion. Ms. Griffin: Ms. Wichman moved (Unanimous voice vote) Opposed? carries 6:0. COMMUNICATIONS and Ms. Schneider seconded the motion. All in favor? Hearing none, we accept the minutes as written. Motion Re: Letter (9/8/15) from Ronald A. Sato, AICP, Senior Associate, HHF Planners Regarding Environmental Reviews for Federally- Subsidized Public Hearing Projects (County of Kaua`i); Section 106 Consultation — No Effect Determination — Hale Hoolulu (Eld), TMK: 5- 2- 08 :56; Hale Hoonanea (Eld), TMK: 24- 03:17; Hale Nam Kai O`Kea (Eld), TMK: 4 -6 -14 :105; Home Nani (Eld), TMK: 1 -6- 07:31; Kawailehua (Federal), TMK: 2- 6- 04:58; Kekaha Haaheo, TMK: 1- 3 -08 :20 & 26. Ms. Griffin: Item B.1., a letter from Ronald Sato regarding environmental review for Federally - Subsidized Public Housing Projects; Section 106 Consultation. Mr. Chaffin Jr.: Where is that? Ms. Griffin: It's at the end of the minutes, so it's ... let's call it half an inch in. Is there anyone in the public who is here to testify on the Federally - Subsidized Public Housing renovations? No. If there aren't comments at this point, may I have a motion to receive the communication? Ms. Schneider: I make a motion that we receive the communication. Ms. Griffin: Ms. Schneider has moved and Ms. Wichman has seconded the motion to receive the communication. Mr. Chaffin Jr.: From HHF Planners? Ms. Griffin: Yes. Discussion? Hearing none. All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote) Opposed? (None) The motion carries 6:0. Thank you. UNFINISHED BUSINESS Re: Letter (7/17/15) from Kimi Yuen, Senior Associate, PBR Hawaii & Associates, Inc. informing the KHPRC of the Draft .Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) for the Hi'ena State Park Master Plan that has been prepared pursuant to Chapter 343 of the Hawaii Revised Statutes and Administrative Rules, Title 11, Chapter 200. October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 3 Ms. Griffin: Item C.1., Unfinished Business. The letter from Kimi Yuen, Senior Associate at PBR Hawaii & Associates informing the KHPRC of the Draft Environmental Impact Statement for the Ha` ena State Park Master Plan. There is a memorandum in our packet, immediately after the HHF Planners letter. Kaaina, would you like to tell us about this, please? Deputy Director Kaaina Hull: Yes, just real briefly. During the last KHPRC meeting, essentially the Ha`ena State Master Plan, the draft EIS, was being presented to you folks for your review and comment. The ultimate summary that happened at the meeting was there were some concerns, there were some statements, but overall there was a concern of having time to review the draft EIS in which the Commission wanted additional time to review it on their own and submit comments to the Department to essentially synthesize, and then get back to you folks for your review and action. So the comments that you have before you now are what the Department received. The Department is in agreement with these comments and would recommend passage of, or adoption of those comments to be sent to OEQC for their inclusion in these communications for the draft EIS. Ms. Griffin: And that's Office of Environmental Quality Control, Mr. Hull: Correct. Sorry about that. Ms. Griffin: Thank you. There is the two -page response. Is there a motion to adopt? Ms. Schneider: I make a motion that we adopt the comments as Kaaina has stated them. Ms. Griffin: Second? Larry Chaffin seconded. Anne Schneider made the motion. Discussion? Mr. Long: This is about the Ha`ena Beach Park? Ms. Griffin: It's the State Park Plan, yes. Mr. Long: Right. I have some comments. Ms. Griffin: About the draft of the memo? Mr. Lonjz: Not about the memo; about the plan itself. Ms. Griffin: Okay. Mr. Long: Is now an appropriate time for that? Ms. Griffin: The motion has been made to adopt the comments as they were sent in to the Planning Department from any of us who sent them in, and to adopt them as written. So we should deal October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 4 with whether or not to adopt these; that's the motion. comments. And then I will ask if there are other If there are no comments, the motion has been made to adopt this memorandum as written. All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote) Opposed? Hearing none, they are adopted. Motion carries 6:0. Along with the letter, are there other issues? Stephen? Mr. Long: Oh, thank you. I did have some additional thoughts or questions or comments regarding the Hd'ena Beach Park Plan. Is there a representative from the consultant or the State here? Alan Carpenter: Yes. Ms. Griffin: Mr. Carpenter, please identify yourself as well. Mr. Carpenter: Hi. Good afternoon, Commissioners. I'm Alan Carpenter, Division of State Parks. So not to step backward, but if I may kind of give you a brief update on things that have happened from our side since the last time we met. We wem under the understanding that you folks were going to compile your comments and get it to us by the deadline, which was September 8th. We held a public meeting on August 19th. It was very well attended in Hanalei; over three hundred (300) people. It was a little contentious, and many people at that time asked for additional time to digest the plan because it is a very intimidating document as there is a lot in there and it's very complex. Subsequently we also received a number of written comments asking for an extension. We have, in fact, granted that extension to the public and we have a new date of October 9`b to accept formal public comments. However, subsequent to that, we also met again with our Master Plan Advisory Committee and the consensus after that meeting was there's enough dissention and confusion in the community about the plan that the amount of time that we had given to digest it and the amount of time we spent presenting the plan in a public forum was not adequate. We agreed collectively that was, in fact, the case and that we would rather get this done right than get it done quickly. So we have internally, we're not putting a halt to the OEQC process, but we are going to take more time to engage with the community, have additional public outreach led by the Master Plan Advisory Committee who feel ... they've invested so much in the plan that it's really their responsibility to take it out, obviously with State Parks support. We envision that process is probably going to allow for another six (6) months of discourse prior to taking the plan to the DLNR Board for finalization, so there is time. I'm not saying hey, give yourselves six (6) more months and get back to us, but we will continue to accept comments, particularly from agencies because of the complexity and the length of the plan, and our own, sort of, misstep in taking it out at such a late time. There was a lot of public interaction, but it was very early on and this has been like an eight - year process, so we feel that it's only fair to the community to extend it at this time. Ms. Griffin: Well thank you. You will be getting a memorandum from the Historic Preservation Review Commission with our comments as it stands now. There are additional questions I think that you have. October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 5 Mr. Long: Yes, thank you. At our last meeting with you, and thank you very much for being here, I also understand that our responsibility is towards historical nature of comments, so I'm going to keep myself to that subject. Mr. Carpenter: Thank you. Mr. Long: I had a question about the resources that were mauka of the highway. How are those going to be handled and access to those? Mr. Ca erp nter: That's a complicated issue because we have identified rock fall danger immediately of the cliffs, which includes the highway and a little bit makai of the highway. To back up a little bit, we originally envisioned taking jurisdiction of the highway from DOT, turning it into an interpretive pedestrian corridor, which would highlight the caves and the other sites mauka of the highway, as well as the loci to the makai side. We have pretty much committed, through a collaborative process with the community, to moving people away from the rock fall hazard, which is where that boardwalk trail comes in, in the plan, right. That trail is situated so that it's beyond the 0% rock fall hazard line; that was not originally part of our intent. So there will be no directed public access along the highway, which gives you the most direct views of, in particular, the two (2) wet caves. However, those caves will be interpreted from this trail, so there will be an interpretive waypoint along the way. In fact, there are a couple of advantages to the boardwalk, and this was something proposed by the folks who are working the loci; not by us. They direct people and they keep people in a single, sort of, file corridor away from the hazard zone, but also you are kind of immersed ... this is both a plus and a minus...you're immersed in the loci system. You are walking right through it, so you get the best view of that cultural landscape because you're in the middle of it. But you also get a view of Makana, which is a very important cultural peak that is over lined at the whole park with tremendous significance; a view that you don't get when you're right up against the base of the cliffs and you're walking on that road. You can't see it. So it's another thing, you get to see a little bit more of Hacena's cultural landscape as you move. Now, we are not going to physically barrier anybody from walking down the road, but you will have to do so at your own risk. I think due to our primary mission of keeping people safe, we're not going to invite people to those caves. Mr. Long: There are two (2) caves, the dry and the wet cave, down on the highway. Mr. Carpenter: They are both wet; one (1) is higher than the other. Mr. Long: Okay. And then up above, for decades we'd take the kids and go up, and there's this cave up there where you can go into. Mr. Carpenter: Right. Okay, yes, the dry cave is back at the County Park, Mr. Long: About 35, 40 feet up. So that's the cave we'd take our kids to; put lifejackets on them, take them through various caverns, which was fun. October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 6 Mr. Carpenter: Yes. It is and a lot of people do it. Technically, it's not allowed, right; swimming in the waters is not allowed, and we'll probably keep it that way. Again, that is right smack dab in the middle of the rock fall hazard zone, so we are not going to invite people to go up there. You know, it's a double -edged sword. You can go back and look at what we had to do with Kaliuwa` a, Sacred Falls on Oahu, which is a very culturally important place to a lot of people, but the danger is so great that we felt that we had a duty to literally keep people out, so nobody can go there today. I don't know if it will come to that. I don't know if the risk in this area is of that magnitude. I know the engineers who do the study; I think they do good work. I haven't read the rock fall danger report cover to cover, and some of its just probability, so I can't say how great that risk is. I know that when I go to places, I have a very, sort of, keen awareness of hazards now when I visit places. I see things differently now that I've seen all of these hazards in our own parks. I always use, sort of, the barometer of well, would I take my kids there? And I think I would. I would probably take my kids up there. But that's not a ... you can't use my measure, right, so we have to go with what the report says, and if it says there's a high risk of somebody being injured or killed, we either have to mitigate that risk or move people out of the way. And that's, you know, we are going to move them out of the way and simply not invite them in. There's not going to be people chasing you up there and telling you to get out most likely, but staffing's a whole other issue. I see you had a concern in here that the cost involved in implementing this is an issue. I think the first one was, is this ever going to happen? Will this Master Plan ever be completed? The Master Plan will be completed. Will it be fully implemented? I doubt it will ever be 100% implemented. It will be implemented in phases as funding allows, and I think little things hopefully will help the community realize that these are small changes that are for the good. We like to think that the whole process is going to be a community -based adaptive management strategy. So the community has been driving this from the beginning, but we have to accept it and we have to accept the liability that our decisions bring. Anyway, I hope ... has that answered your question at all? Mr. Long: Yes, thank you. Mr. Carpenter: Alright. Mr. Long: During your last presentation to us, you mentioned something about no restrictions for traditional gathering rights. I take that to mean if somebody in the neighborhood wants to go fishing, they got their fishing pole, they can walk down the highway and go fishing. So what kind of mechanisms are going to be in place to allow that to happen? Mr. Carpenter: My guess is ... I think the easiest way for us to implement that would be to have a Special Use Permit that people could get, probably annually. You come in, you give your reasoning behind your cultural attachment, your reason to get there, and that would be your pass for that year to get in. It wouldn't cost anything. Mr. Long: '_ Okay. I know that you are going to have to restrict the number of people by about half. We don't have the site plan up here, so what happens when somebody drives down to the end of October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 7 the road, and at what point are they told to turn around? I mean, is there a sign like the "Closed Bridge" barrier that says "Ke`e Beach now full for the day "? Mr. Carpenter: I think there are a number of ways that could happen, and I don't think we have the answer. This is largely dependent ... the notion of setting a visitor limit, which is really breaking new ground, not just here, but anywhere. I mean, there's no National Park that does that, currently. We don't have a model to go on. All we know is there's too many people there now; too many cars and too many people. And it's having a detrimental effect on the resource and visitor experience. There are so many things that have to come together before we can even think about implementing that. So we have to have the issue of enforcement outside of the park. A shuttle is almost mandatory to be in operation if we are going to cut down the number of cars dramatically. To answer your question, I don't know exactly how it will work. Whether it would be you have to purchase an advanced ticket for any given day, or whether it would be all manifested right there by a control point and staff in the park; probably a combination thereof. There's a lot of scenarios envisioned in that plan, and I think that's part of the reason people are very concerned about it because it looks like we're just throwing out all of these things to confuse people, but we are really throwing out all of the these things because we are not sure which one is going to work. We want to be able to implement and adapt as we go to make sure that if we mitigate all of the impacts in the park, but create a whole bunch outside, that's not a success, right? So, we don't know, but it probably will start with limited parking and no visitor limit; that will be the first step. And we may implement a visitor limit without enforcement, and see how that works. I'm guessing it won't. Actually, out -of -state visitors might comply; I don't think locals will. There's a big question of local access, and we are hearing a ton about that. If we implement a visitor limit and we don't have the ability to discriminate between local and visitor, there will be times when locals will not be able to go. They will be turned around, too. We haven't figured that out yet. Although one thing we're pretty sure we'll do is there will be a peak period during the day when this limit will apply. Very early in the morning and late in the afternoon it won't, which means those who want to go there early to fish, those who want to run down the trail, go surf at Hanakapi'ai, those who want to come and watch the sunset at 6:45 will be able to come in, as long as there's parking place available. But again, to get back to your question, we don't have the perfect answer yet, but it's going to take experimentation, and hopefully a solution can be reached. Ms. Griffin: Do you have a date for the next public meeting? Mr. Carpenter: We don't. We do not yet. Mr. Long: My final thought ... and we don't have the site plan up here... Mr. Carpenter: Do you want one? Mr. Long: No. Mr. Carpenter: Okay. October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 8 Mr. Long: But my consideration is that there ought to be some kind of a turnaround in the site plan; not a hammerhead, so people get there then it's the easy (inaudible). Mr. Carpenter: There is a turnaround. There's a turnaround before you even enter the parking lot. Mr. Long. Okay, that's all. Thank you. Mr. Carpenter: Okay. Ms. Griffin: Thank you so much. As the conversation and the plan potentially evolves, I assume you'll come back and see us, and we may well generate a second memorandum to you. Mr. Carpenter: We would be glad to. We want to keep you folks involved. A lot of people think this plan was a done deal. I mean, one of the things was just the semantics for the fact that it was called a "Final Draft ", but I mean, it's still a draft. We're still very open to modifying the plan, and I think we've already made some concessions. The plan that you see, it'll change. Most likely the development will be lessened. I can almost certainly say that, but we are going to hear more from the public before we make the final decisions. Ms. Griffin: Great. Thank you so much. Mr. Carpenter: Okay, thank you. NEW BUSINESS Re: Class IV Zoning Permit Z4V- 2015 -41, Use Permit U- 2015 -40 and Variance Permit V- 2015 -6 to allow installation and height variance for a 53 feet high stealth telecommunications structure and associated equipment on a parcel located in Lihu`e, situated at the Tip Top Motel/Cafe and Bakery site, further identified as 3173 Akahi Street, Tax Map Key 3 -6406 :073, Lihu`e, Kauai. Ms. Griffin: So moving into New Business. Item D.1., Class IV Zoning Permit and Use Permit and Variance Permit to allow installation and height variance for a 53 -foot high stealth telecommunications structure and associated equipment on a parcel located in Lihu`e, situated at the Tip Top Motel /Cafe and Bakery site, further identified as 3173 Akahi Street. Mr, Hull. Mr. Hull: Okay. Thanks Pat. For the Commission, this is a unique review for you folks. The structure itself is a new structure where it's going onto the Tip Top Cafe and Motel is actually not a historic structure. It's close to it; it is forty -seven (47) years old. In a few years it will be part of our inventory, but as of currently, it is not. To give you guys some background on why it is here before you folks for your review, the application was before the Planning Commission back in August. What Verizon was proposing to do is put a telecommunication tower there with the October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 9 antennas to meet customer demands, essentially. To take a few steps even further back, over the past several years, there have been an increasingly large amount of applications concerning telecommunication facilities. The vast majority of them have come to Kauai and the ones that have received approval are in the Agricultural Zoning District. One of the biggest issues that generally arises concerning these sites, because they are often high ... they average generally at 70 to 100 feet, some of them go up to 150/160 feet ... is the ability to stealth them because the telecommunications tower can have this fairly industrial look, and it also breaches into the horizon as impacts on the view plain. Over the past decade, the telecommunication industry has gotten very used to the fact that on Kauai, stealthing of these sites is very important. I'd say roughly 90% of the sites have some type of stealthing capability. Because the majority of them are in the Agricultural Zoning District, they are actually turned into what make them look like pine trees, essentially. A handful has come into the urban area, and those that have generally stealth themselves by going on an existing building of the necessary height and making like a full wall around the antennas that does not interrupt the transmission of radio frequency (inaudible). As demand for these sites increase, in particular because of data and the iPhone craze now, the telecommunication companies are increasing the amount of sites that they need in the urban area. When Verizon came with this application in Tip Top, the original proposal that they came with was, and I believe Shan handed it out to you guys, it's one of the paper ones that we just handed out today. Ms. Schneider: The monopole? Mr. Hull: Well actually the monopole is not what they originally proposed. I actually asked them to provide that to see essentially what it would look like with a monopole at that site. Ten (10), fifteen (15) years ago I think most applications that's what the Applicant would have proposed. But the telecommunication industry, like I said, has gotten very used to the fact that on Kauai, you have to kind of stealth in order to get review by Planning Commission. So they automatically came in with a stealth proposal, which is the other handout you folks have, in which it kind of just is that 55 -foot high tower essentially. Ms. Schneider: Steeple? Mr. Hull: Yes. When the Department saw that in the preliminary review with them, we had actually informed them that they can submit that application, but given the protrusion in the horizon, the impact of what the Department deemed as somewhat monolific, the Department would probably be recommending denial on that application. So in looking at other strategies that have been utilized in the urban form on the mainland, per se, is the use of either a water tank or a clock tower is a fairly common strategy to stealth telecommunication facilities. In looking at that, we kind of had asked what a clock tower would look like, and they came back with a rendering, which you guys got in the original packet that was submitted to you guys last week. With that proposal, the Department did feel that did, in fact, blend with the urban form of the Llhu`e Town Core. It also served somewhat of a functional aesthetic in the sense that the clock would be functioning. We took it to the Planning Commission with a recommendation of approval. The Planning Commission, on August 25h, approved the site for telecommunication; however, they had concerns about the design. So ultimately, the Applicant has to return to them with a design October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 10 proposal that they feel is appropriate. Aesthetics is a very tricky subject to get into. If you have seven (7) Commissioners, you are probably going to have seven (7) different opinions on what's aesthetically appropriate. The Planning Commission actually referred this application to you folks to see what your design review would be of the site within a historical context, keep in mind, but that is why, essentially, you have been handed this application. It's not officially a historic site, but the Planning Commission is requesting that you review the site and do a design evaluation and possibly if you have a recommendation on one (1) of the options that the Applicant has given. So essentially you have three (3) options that the Applicant has given to you folks, which is ... technically you guys have five (5) options, actually. You've got the three (3) that were previously transmitted to you; one (1) was... Ms. Griffin: The clock tower, the silo, and the water tank. Mr. Hull: The water tower. And then you also have these options, which were the original proposal, as well as just straight going telecommunication tower. The Department still holds by its recommendation to the Planning Commission that the clock tower is the most aesthetically appropriate for this area. However, it's here for your review and your comment, essentially. Ms. Griffin: Thank you very much. Are there questions of Kaaina? Is the Applicant here? Mr. Hull: She is. Kathy O'Connor- Phelps: Good afternoon, Madam Chair and the rest of the Commission. I'm Kathy O'Connor - Phelps. I'm a consultant for Verizon Wireless who will be the carrier at this project. We are eager to get your input. We are willing to basically do any design to get it going and get it approved. I will say that the owner's preference is the clock tower. He's not crazy about the water tank and it's not good for co- location if you want to have another carrier utilize that site as well. I think, Mr. Hull, didn't you say that it was called. the Times Square? He had looked in some documents from way back when and it called it the Times Square of Lihu`e, so I think the clock tower fits in just great with that. But if you have any questions, comments, kind of guide the Commission, otherwise you are going to end up with a pineapple. (Laughter in background) Mr. Hull: She says that jokingly, but there was a request, essentially, to entertain looking at a possible pineapple design; a 50 -foot pineapple. Ms. O'Connor - Phelps: Yes. The landlord freaked. Mr. Hull: To the Applicant's credit, she actually had their engineers take a look and see if that was even feasible. Ms. O'Connor - Phelps: We did. It was basically going to look like the water tank with the crown on top of it, so it would not look right. Ms. Griffin: Thank you. Are there questions of the Applicant? Larry? October 10, 2015 KBPRC Meeting Minutes Page 11 Mr. Chaffin Jr.: We have two (2) packets of drawings. Which one are you talking about? Ms. O'Connor - Phelps: The clock tower was the one that we revised based on Planning's comments, so that they would support the project, that's what went before Planning Commission in August. Planning Commission said hey, can you try a water tank, can you try maybe like a farm silo, something like that? We said absolutely, we can adjust those, so you should have the silo, I think we have a smokestack, which is basically the silo without a top, and then the water tank. If you need copies, I have extra. Ms. Wichman: There's just the one that's just bare, with just the antennas. Ms. O'Connor - Phelps: Is that the...? Yes. We are just showing a comparison. That's what a monopole, like Mr. Hull said, that's you know a fifteen -year ago design, but that's what they used to look like so they've come a long way. We are spending a lot of money to stealth the tower. Ms. Schneider: Is this the final version of the tower? Ms. O'Connor - Phelps: The clock tower? Ms. Schneider: Yes. Ms. O'Connor - Phelps: Yes. I mean, unless you guys have further comments and want something added to it. Ms. Schneider: I think a little more overhang on the roof might make it a little more aesthetic. Ms. O'Connor - Phelps: A little more overhang? Ms. Schneider: Yes, Ms. O'Connor-Phelps: Okay. Ms. Griffin: What are the dimensions? We did get some plans, but they were reduced down to 8 %2 by 11, which is always a challenge. Ms. O'Connor-Phelps: Oh, okay. If you want a bigger one, I have one (1). I can pass it around, but I can give you dimensions. Ms. Griffin: Thank you. Ms. O'Connor - Phelps: It is 12 by 12. So essentially it'll be a 12 by 12. It's not going to be all the way down to the ground. It'll have the four (4) posts, so he can still put his trash, ..he has a trash thing underneath there, so he can still utilize that space. And then the antennas at the top, behind, basically what it is, is a fiberglass that can shoot the signal through. October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 12 Ms. Griffin: Other questions of the Applicant? Mr. Long: I have a comment. Since I have an Whone, I'm in favor of more (inaudible) and stealthing them. (Laughter in background) My comments, aesthetically, are I support Anne's comment on more of an overhang. Ms. O'Connor-Phelps.. Okay. Mr. Long: I wonder if you even want to do a horizontal soffit with a split pitch. Ms. O'Connor - Phelps: Horizontal soffit. Mr. Long: Horizontal soffit with a split pitch. Ms. O' Connor - Phelps: Okay. Mr. Long: Your guts of your equipment is all at the top. Ms. O'Connor- Phelps: Right. Mr. Long: So you really want a flattest roof as possible. So instead of coming down like this, one could have a horizontal soffit and /or split pitch if possible within that same volume. Ms. O'Connor-Phelps:. Okay. Mr. Long: And the second thing is, in the interest of reducing the mass, since the guts of the equipment are at the top, and there probably needs to be some circulation ladder going up the pole. Ms. O'Connor - Phelps: Yes, between antennas, has to maintain a certain space. Mr. Long: I believe that, design -wise, one could reduce the mass by keeping the top 12 by 12, which you need to house the equipment, but then you could reduce the base supporting that to something like 8 by 8, which has precedence in other watch towers historically. They'll come up and they'll have a little build out up at the top. So those are my comments. Ms. O'Connor - Phelps: The only concern I have with the 8 by 8, and certainly we would do it, is that if AT &T came in later on, they may be before you again to go back out because they have to fit their antennas in, and I'm not sure what their configuration would be. Mr. Hull: To give some background for that, so what you see with these sites, and particularly because, ..not just because they're costly, but because they can be unsightly, the State of Hawaii has an official policy, as well as the County, when they are able to do so that they allow for co- location of their competitors on the same pole. So Verizon puts a pole up, they are required to make it available for their competitors to put antennas at a lower level, as opposed to every single competitor having their own sites, and therefore, reducing the amount of poles that are on Kauai October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 13 or throughout the State. The only issue ... I don't think that ... that could be part of the aesthetic concern and that's essentially what we are looking at here today. The part of the concern that the Commission may have with it is, you are no longer able to co- locate competitors on that pole. And I say that in a very neutral manner in the sense that if that's what it takes to get this 50 -foot tower aesthetically sited, then that's what it takes. Mr. Long: If that doesn't work because of leasing considerations, one can reduce the mass by additional horizontal bands or a difference in material where you had something at the base and then something above; board and batten, and then stucco. I'm not asking to do any great architecture, just ... you can break up the mass with different elements. Ms. O'Connor-Phelps: Okay. Mr. Hull: I think one (1) way that's possible, if say this body decides to move on the clock tower and recommend it, that in going back to the design review with the Planning Commission, perhaps the Applicant can have different variations, like you are saying Commissioner, one in which you have additional horizontal lines or ones in which you actually are shrinking the mass to 8 feet where appropriate. Ms. Griffin: Are there other questions of the Applicant? I know that there are several different types of receivers. The one presented here, is that the only one that's available for this particular placement? Ms. O'Connor - Phelps: You mean, did we go to other owners? Ms. Griffin: I'm sorry? Ms. O'Connor - Phelps: Did we go to other property owners? Is that what you mean? Ms. Griffin: No. I'm talking about what it looks like on top. There used to be different types of transmitters, different sizes, and different looks. Ms. O'Connor - Phelps: Yeah, I mean, what's inside is typical of what it is today. They are 8 -foot antennas; they are rather large. Ms. Griffin: Okay. Ms. O'Connor - Phelps: And then what we call "remote radio units" gives it a boost in signal, and then surge suppressors, just in case there is a power surge. Ms. Griffin: Any other comments? Is there anyone in the public who would like to testify? Yes, come up Palmer. October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 14 Palmer Hafdahl: If I may, I'm Palmer Hafdahl. I'm just sitting here as an interested community member at the moment. The Lihu`e Town Core Plan has in it allowances for pedestrian access from the neighborhoods on Elua Street and Akahi Street to the highway. It included options, one (1) central on Elua Street and then heads up to two (2) connectors from Akahi to the highway. In visiting the site, it was clear that this alignment through the center of Tip Top property happens to line up with the Elua pedestrian pathway suggested. Because of another interest I have, I didn't want to see the possibility of a pedestrian connection, at that point, being missed. Maybe not this Board in terms of how it looks, but in terms of placement, maybe the suggestion that we allow that it be placed so that at a term when there is a willing landowner on both sides that a connection can be accomplished there; just looking forward from the planning standpoint. I appreciate hearing that it actually is elevated above grade and it potentially allows greater access beneath them, but it's just something that I'd like to encourage you to look at when it comes to the aesthetics. Maybe not bringing it down to the ground is a good point, and the possibility of providing that connection. It turns out that it may be a real principal place to make that much needed connection. Thank you. Ms. Griffin: Thank you. Our Commission is always cautioned to be guided by the laws and standards of historic preservation, and not our own personal taste. So I wanted to say that even though Tip Top is not quite fifty (50) years old, Akahi and Elua Street are certainly eligible to be historic districts. Our Town Core plan, which was adopted as an ordinance in 2010, I believe, talks real specifically about mass and scale. All of these structures, including the clock tower, when you talk about 12 by 12, that's probably about the ... this much table, and that's really big. I have some pictures. This one you probably can't see, but this is a historic building. This is the first part of the Civic Center that became historic almost a year ago. This is a historic building, the Kauai Museum, and that utility pole has got to be 50 feet tall. Here's another, the light post in front. The round building won't become historic for another two (2) years. This is the post that's directly across the street from Tip Top; it's 50 feet. So I'm not convinced that the, let's be honest here's a cell tower, isn't the best approach. That it's just what it is because I think when people go down Akahi Street, they don't see these poles. They see the houses, they see the offices, and the same is true if any of you who parked up on this side with the real tall lights. The Kauai Museum sees this because they've always wondered why the lights go back across in front of their property and then cross the street again, but again, we tend to see the museum; we don't see the utility poles. So for me, looking at this district eligible street that seems like the least intrusive; the actual cell tower itself, rather than these very large things. Also, it is a variance from the 30 -foot height limit that is listed on Akahi and Elua Street. I did not attend that Planning Commission meeting and I haven't seen the transcript of the discussion, but it does look to me like that's the least aggressive kind of approach. I don't know. Any other comments? Mr. Long: Yes. I'm picking up on what Pat is saying. There's another option that isn't presented here, which is the cell tower with some fake metal branches; like up on Princeville, Hoku Heiau, which is what you're talking about. I mean, you're just talking about the utilitarian bare pole, but if it's really ... you don't see the telephone poles because you drive kind of like right by them and you don't look out your window up 50 feet. This is a little bit more in the distance, so you are seeing more of the silhouette, which is rectangular. Maybe there is another option, which is not to hide it in a non - existing bell tower. In the city, they hide them in existing church steeples and that kind of thing, which it already exists; it's hollow, that makes sense. Here you are building a really October 10, 2015 KBPRC Meeting Minutes Page 15 large object to disguise something that's really small. So in picking up on what Pat's saying, maybe if we just disguise the silhouette of it, in the distance, make it kind of like a tree, or not like a big watch tower. Ms. Schneider: Or paint it blue like the sky. (Laughter in 7 background) Mr. Long: That's a thought. Personally, aesthetically I'd have to take a look at both of them, but I think they are both really valid; both are reasonable solutions. Mr. Hull: If I could interject, too. These are discussions the Department has had with applicants for at least the past fifteen (15) years now, as the person who has been in charge of telecoms for the past several years. First and foremost, concerning the massing, I can understand the Chair's concern with the fact that the clock tower... all of the other options have far more massing than the pole as presented. What I think you guys also need to take in to consideration is the pole as presented is more than likely not what the pole will morph into once co- location happens. The reason the massing is that large is because the antenna massing is that large, so ultimately what you could have here, because of co- location is you can see the top has all of those panel antennas which are roughly going to be about 12 feet in diameter. They are going to have their walls right around those antennas. There are going to be more coming down, and it's just going to have a feel of a very large, massive antenna pole after co- location happens, so that's one (1) of our concerns. And even above and beyond, I mean, the fight that we had with telecommunication carriers in the beginning to get them to realize that they should be stealthing these sites was the sense, and we would generally make the position that there's utility poles galore all around. They are exempted from our review, but why should the utility poles be allowed to not have to stealth, and they are. Our response is, what always has been and will remain to be, those utility poles do impact the view plain. They have become, somewhat, background noise to the passenger in the car or the pedestrian, but they kind of just fold into the landscape because we've just accepted them. But when you do actually look at them individually, they do impact the view plain. And because there's one (1) say unaesthetic structure does not legitimize you having the ability to now also put something that's going to have an impact on the view plain. So that's generally where we stood with these sites. Concerning the monopine, because that has been, I'd say, the number one strategy for telecommunication carriers on the island, and that's because the bulk of the sites are in the Agricultural District and the monopine blends in with the agricultural area. The trees help mask it and it becomes camouflage with the trees in and around it. A tree pole in an urban environment would stand out a bit like a sore thumb; they really do. I mean, do they look like trees when you're zipping by on the highway, yes, but when you actually stop and actually look at these things, they're not quite the magnificent piece of artwork that one may think is going into these because they do stand out. The only reason they don't stand out is because they've got generally fifty (50) or sixty (60) trees around them. So that's just what I'll put in as the Department's two cents on the review. Ms. Griffin: Thank you. Okay, so we have some choices. We can choose not to comment on the aesthetics, we can make a choice with one (1) of the presented options, or we can potentially ask October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 16 for another refined option, but we are responding to the Planning Commission's inability to decide on the options that they were given. Ms. Schneider: Kaaina, either way they're coming for a height variance? Mr. Hull: Yes, they came in for the height variance. Essentially, the Planning Commission approved the variance and approved the site. However, they wanted further input on the actual design of the structure. Ms. Schneider: So could we ask them to come back with some refinement of the clock version? Mr. Hull: Given the Applicant's timeline, it'll ultimately be if you can come back, Kathy, is essentially what I think they're asking. Ms. O'Connor - Phelps: When do you ... you meet again in ... what are we in... Ms. Griffin: First Thursday of each month. Ms. O'Connor-Phelps: So of November? I mean, if that's what it's going to take to get you guys to let us move forward, then certainly. I mean, would we like to go to Planning Commission and be done and ready to submit it to Building Permits this year? Yes, we would obviously like that option better, but.. . Ms. Griffin: Well if I can have a motion then we can discuss and then come to a vote. Ms. Schneider: I make a motion that we ask the Applicant to come back with some refinements to the clock tower version. Ms. Griffin: Is there a second? Hearing no second, that motion dies. May I have another motion? Mr. Chaffin Jr.: I have a question. You mentioned trees surrounding this. Are these trees that you have planted or do they just happen to be there? Ms. O'Connor - Phelps: We've done both. We've done it where there's been trees that have been existing, and then especially on the mainland in Southern California, a lot of palm trees. We do a lot of monopalms, and we are told to plant trees around it. This property is way too small. We would never be able to fit any landscaping. We're pretty tight as it is in there, and there's no. ..we actually thought about a monopine knowing that Kauai liked monopines, and like Mr. Hull said, I think it'll stick out too much. We'd love to do that; it's cheaper. (Laughter in background) My client would be very happy if it was a monopole even, but like Mr. Hull said, the photo Sim is not showing what could potentially be co- locators on that pole. Ms. Griffin: If we cannot get a motion to go forward, then essentially we are not going to make a comment. We will defer to whatever the Planning Commission decides. Is that the choice of the Commissioners? October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 17 Mr. Long: I'll make a motion. I move that we support the owner's inclination to support the stealthing of the cell tower in a clock tower construction, and that the mitigating elements on the clock tower proposal as submitted would be to revise the roof profile, perhaps a split -pitch and/or additional overhang, as well as reducing the mass of the tower with materials and other aesthetic elements, and that the Applicant come back before us and present those revisions. Ms. Griffin: Is there a second? Ms. Schneider: I'll second the motion. Ms. Griffin: Alright. It's been moved and seconded that we support the owner by accepting the stealthing of the cell tower in the clock tower, mitigating the design to revise the roof profile, perhaps with a double -pitch and longer overhang, and possibly reducing the mass on the post section itself. Thank you. Is there further discussion? Larry. Mr. Chaffin Jr.: I would like to propose that we not tell them exactly what to do, but come back to us with various proposals, so that they're not just limited to this one (1) discussion. Ms. Griffin: Great, and it did say "possibly" with those suggestions. Is there other discussion? Ms. Wichman: Yes. I'd like to mention that I think the point that Paul brought up about the walkway, that's part of the Llhu`e Town Core Plan, I think that needs to be addressed so that it's not excluded since that already is part of the 2010 plan, right? Ms. Griffin: Would you like to amend the motion? Ms. Wichman: I'd like to amend that. That the pedestrian connection should be included within this plan. Ms. Griffin: So Victoria is moving to amend the primary motion by incorporating the Town Core Plan's pedestrian connection in the concept. Mr. Hull: I'll just interject real briefly on that. I think you're within the purview of the Commission to say it should be considered. However, also knowing the fact that (1) the Planning Commission has already given approval to the site for a telecommunication facility and the actual requirements say of an access way would be considered an exaction, which Jodi would have to weigh in on, as far as whether you can do that after approval has been given, and then (2) that actual corridor requires, not only the Tip Top landowner giving approval to say an easement or handing the property over to the County, but as well as the abutting property owner as well, who is not part of this application. I'm not saying that the sentiment shouldn't be in the motion, but just to caution, as far as to keep it in the consideration realm. October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 18 Ms. Wichman: Okay, so maybe I misunderstood. Was the corridor or the pedestrian connection part of the plan? Mr. Hull: It is part of the plan, but it also requires, essentially, either the willing landowners convey that land to the County, or establish an easement, or that the County go in there and condemn the lands for that corridor. It's a recommended connection to have, but in order for that connection to be established, it takes one (1) of those three (3) scenarios. Ms. Wichman: Okay, I understand. So it hasn't been approved? Mr. Hull: Yes, Ms. Griffin: Would you like to withdraw your motion? Or.. . Ms. Wichman: I was under the assumption that the pedestrian corridor was already part of it, so I'd still like to see that happen. Consideration? Ms. Griffin. Would you restate the motion, please? Ms. Wichman: My part of the motion? I would like to see consideration of a pedestrian connection that goes through the Tip Top properties as planned in the L3hu`e Town Core Plan of 2010. Ms. Griffin: Is there a second? Ms. Schneider: I second the motion. Ms. Griffin: It's seconded by Anne Schneider. So the amendment to the primary motion is that consideration be given to future possibility of the pedestrian path crossing the property as shown in the Llhu`e Town Core Urban Design Plan adopted in 20101 Ms. Wichman: Yes, thank you. Ms. Griffin: Further discussion on the amendment? All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote) Opposed? Hearing none. Motion carries 6:0. Going back to the primary motion, is there further discussion? All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote) Opposed? Hearing none, that motion carries 6:0 as well. Ms. O'Connor - Phelps: Thank you. Ms. Griffin: Thank you so much, Ms. O'Connor- Phelps. Re: Garden Island Service Station, (Aloha Petroleum Ltd.) TMK: 3 -6- 06:89, Lihu`e, Kauai October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 19 Zoning Permit Z -9846 for the Proposed Demolition of the Existing Shell Service Station. Ms. Griffin: Under New Business, Item D.2., Garden Island Service Station (Aloha Petroleum Ltd.), Zoning Permit for the proposed demolition of the existing Shell Service Station. Staff? Mr. Hull: Good afternoon, again, Commissioners. Concerning the demolition of the subject service station, the Department has received the demolition application for the Shell Service Station. The site is not on the National or State Historic Registry, however, it is a historic site, as well as on the County of Kauai inventory. The profile that we gave to you folks is actually inaccurate, and I'll hand out the accurate profile. I believe the profile we handed to you stated 1942, when in fact it's actually 1930, when the structure was constructed. It has proven through our research to be one (1) of the prime architectural features here on Kauai concerning the roof in particular, as well as the overall site, but the roof, in particular, has proven to have significant historical and architectural significance. Actually, it was under consideration, I know, by this body, as far as recommending movement on nominating it to the State Historic Register. Ultimately, this is an application for you folks to begin discussions on. I think at this point, more than likely the Department, at the end of those discussions, will be recommending a deferral. And that is because it is a fairly complex process, and this is a very important building in the Department's eyes. With that, I'll turn it over to Pat because I know she has definite insight to the particular structure. Ms. Griffin: Thank you. Are there questions of Kaaina? Ms. Schneider: Kaaina, is there any way we can induce them to keep this building? Since it is iconic. Mr. Hull: Yes. There are two (2) options, essentially, when you're looking at regulations, right? I mean, you're either going to use the stick or the carrot. The carrot being tax incentives and encouragement from this Commission or from other bodies to encourage the landowner to realize that they essentially have a gem within a rough right here that can be utilized for an array of different things. If that doesn't work, to use the regulatory powers essentially is as to how far you can actually deny a demolition, would lead to an interesting legal and philosophical debate, let's say, but it's not that the Department is going to not necessarily go that far. The Department itself feels that it is a very significant structure and is currently in the process ... I have a draft letter that we are sending to the landowner; basically to highlight the site and say what a gem this place really is. Do you realize you have this site? Its significance in Hawai`i's history, and perhaps you may have other plans for it. Ms. Schneider: Because we were thinking of having this walking tour on an app for L-ihu`e, and that would certainly be one (1) of the highlights. Mr. Hull: Definitely. October 102 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 20 Ms. Schneider: I mean, it's like a Route 66 element that is here on Kauai. Ms. Griffin: Is the Applicant here? Mr. Hull: There's an interesting situation going on with that. with the Applicant, but actually isn't authorized currently. authorization to give official representation to this body, or Applicant. I'm not sure if he might be willing to testify as a in to this application; he may or may not. But officially, there is today. Palmer Hafdahl has been working He doesn't have an actual legal any other body, on behalf of the ember of the public that has insight no applicant present at the meeting Ms. Griffin: Okay. Well, the next item is whether or not there is anyone in the public who would like to come up and testify. Mr. Hafdahl: Aloha. I'm Palmer Hafdahl and I just want to say I have worked with this applicant. I submitted the application for them. I'm kind of their representative here on the island, and I met with them this week and have had ongoing conversations with them. At this point, my last meeting with them is they are happy enough to defer this a bit until they can get their ducks in a row as well, but they'd certainly like to hear the impressions and concerns of the Kauai Historic Preservation Review Committee and I'll take those notes back to them. Ms. Griffin: Thank you. Mr. Halfdahl: Oh, I did submit the historic review for them as well, so I understand the history of it. On a personal note, my first trade was plastering and I always admired this building's roof as it is done with what you calla scratch coat and plaster. It's the first (inaudible) you take at a three - coat plaster job. It's a unique application. Whether it's historically significant for that, I don't know. It's significant to one plasterer's son, but that's all. (Laughter in background) Ms. Griffin: Thank you, Palmer. You all had in your packets, and I'm sure you've read the information. There was a wealth of information about the history of the building, the exceedingly important architect, and a little bit in absence, but the ownership. Does anyone have comments? Mr. Long: I have a question. I noted that there's a demolition permit applied for, so has there been any development plans submitted? Mr. Hull: No. It just looks like, currently, it's just a straight demolition of the building. Our understanding is that they are essentially having some maintenance issues with the building and there isn't really any plan to necessarily replace the building, per se. Ms. Griffin: Excuse me, but the letter from Palms Hawaii does say that the demolished structure will be replaced by an iconic service station canopy and pumps assembly. Mr. Hull: Yes, but as far as the canopy that is referenced in the letter, as well as the pumps, they still plan to maintain, as we understand it, still maintain the site as a fuel station; however, an actual October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 21 enclosed structure, as we understand it, has not been proposed, nor have we even seen the plans or received official plans and application for the new fueling station. Ms. Schneider: Is there a deadline for you on the demolition permit? Or can you hold that until...? Mr. Hull: Demolition pen-nits are done via the Building Permit route, which do not have timeline requirements. Ms. Griffin: Other questions /comments? Mr. Chaffin Jr.: I'm very concerned that we don't get into trying to design a project that we are not qualified for. We don't have all of the information. Ms. Griffin: Thank you. Other comments or questions? Well Kaaina's right. I do have some things to say about this, and it relates to our kuleana; the history of the place and our place. The State Historic Preservation Division. Have we heard from them? Mr. Hull: No, they haven't commented at this point. It has been referred to them, but they have not commented yet. Ms. Griffin: Okay. As part of the Architectural Division of SHPD, they say, in Hawaii, historic places play an important role of tangibly linking the diverse modern population with Hawai`i's unique history. They simultaneously serve as places of memory for those who have always lived here, while educating newcomers about the island's collective history. Preservation is important; not only is it a means to remember our past, but to inspire our future. In what we do, we talk about places being historically significant. (1) If the building is historically or architecturally significant in terms of its period, style, method of building, construction, or use of indigenous materials. I'd like to suggest that this building absolutely fits that category. In the late 20's and early 30's, as the automobile age, the automobile era, was really coming into its own. Places around the Country really exhibited their own special locations by these service stations. This particular station, the owner, who was the big political boss here at the time, Senator Charles Rice, Charles Atwood Rice, Charlie Rice, and he owned that and they were looking at what we now call plantation - style, double -pitch roof, the old Dickey roof that we know. The architect, Guy Rothwell, who was one (1) of the designers of Honolulu City Hall, Honolulu Hale, and did a lot of other buildings, thousands of them in Hawaii in his time, he said no, our heritage is Hawaiian. This roof, looking like a thatched roof, is a way to represent that, and using moss rock. At the time it was known as Koloa moss rock. They actually dyed the roof a yellow to look like straw, and the island for the pumps, red pumps, they painted green. Some of you may remember Al Duvall, and they hired him to actually do the landscaping with native palm trees, native vines, and things. It's an architecturally significant building; there is not another one like it in the universe. (2) The building is a significant reminder of the cultural or architectural history of the City, State, or Nation. Yes. (3) The building is associated with the significant local state or national event, or October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 22 the building is associated with one (1) or more significant historic persons or events, or with the broad architectural, cultural, political, economic, or social history of the City, State, or Nation. And definitely, this service station talks about the significance that was starting to happen with transportation, which was the first thing. The automobile era is what got us out of our separate kingdoms at the different plantations. This building represented that in our own local style. (4) The building is one (1) of the few remaining examples of its period, style, or method of construction. Yep. (5) The building is identified with the person who significantly contributed to development of the City, State, or Nation. It was actually a territory then, but Senator Charles Rice was absolutely significant in taking Kauai and Hawaii for all the time he was in the Senate, and his work on the Statehood Commission twice, and what he was doing, so yes. (6) The building is identified as the work of a master builder, designer, or architect whose individual work has influenced the development of the City, State, or Nation. I told you a little about Guy Rothwell, and Palmer Hafdahl has nicely included information, or SHPD, the State Historic Preservation Division. (7) The building value is recognized for the quality of its architecture and it retains sufficient elements showing its architectural significance. Yes. When we go past, there's that unsightly, yellow, 18 -inch high belt around the roof that really mitigates the view of it, but it's still there. The fact that there's been malign neglect of upkeep and maintenance does not take away from that fact. (8) The building character is in a geographically definable area possessing a significant concentration or continuity buildings united in past events or aesthetically by planner physical development. That block, when you start right across here where you have the old Garden Island Motors that we call it western, but commercial vernacular in Hawaii that faults front is there you go up with the Garden Island Newspaper that's now Kauai Pasta, that's from the 20's, and then the service station. Next to it, the year after, was built that Spanish mission -style exuberant Lthu`e Theater, which was, at the time, really special; 800 seats they put in in 1930. The place is really special and it is special that the choice was to represent our Hawaiian culture; not simply the dominant plantation era. The National Parks, there's a preservation brief on the preservation and reuse of historic gas stations. It says that historic features that contribute to the character of a gas station should be preserved. A gas station structural form is of central importance. The outward appearance of a historic gas station; its size, shape, massing, and scale often reflected a particular locale. It gives the historic property its identity and contributes today to a public understanding of when and why it was constructed. The roof's configuration pitch and covering are also important, and it goes on. I mention all of that because we have a very historic building in a historic neighborhood in Lihu`e, the County seat and heart of Kauai as we call it. We also have the Lihu`e Town Core Urban Design Plan that stresses that the architectural and building design guidelines serve to respect and reinforce the historic context of this neighborhood, and they are talking about the Kuhio Highway neighborhood. They are intended to protect the various architectural styles and character of existing buildings; that new buildings should be designed to relate to the larger communities, streetscape, and neighborhood by striving to be contextually integrated within the community. Under "Roofs," in this section, it says, new construction or major renovation shall utilize roof shapes, materials, and colors which are compatible with the existing traditional and historic architectural character of the area. I would like to know, from you, if this building is destroyed, is it within the possible use to...because the Town Core Plan says that a Use Permit has to be granted for gas stations. So if this building is destroyed, will any new place be non - conforming with, ..if it's purposely demolished, will it be non - conforming with the plan and our ordinance? October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 23 Mr. Hull: Under Chapter 8, which is the previous zoning ordinance for this area, if it's voluntarily demolished, then I believe no. They would, therefore, have to obtain a Use Permit. But the Town Core Plan overrides Chapter 8 on this, so there is a possibility that actually a Use Permit would be required for any further development, or I should say, any further use of the site after it's been removed from use during that time of demolition. There is a possibility that could go through the Use Permit process; would be required I should say, but we would have to look into that further and particularly, we would have to work with Jodi to get a legal analysis of the non - conforming use being able to continue without a Use Permit. Or the flip side of that, the non - conforming use being required to therefore have to get a Use Permit after demolition. Ms. Schneider: It wouldn't be grandfathered in? Mr. Hull: And that's what I'm saying. We have to check on that. Ms. Schneider: Yes, because if they rebuild it within a year, usually it would be grandfathered. Ms. Griffin: But they're not talking about rebuilding. They're talking about doing something else. Mr. Hull: And that one (1) provision year you're speaking to, Commissioner Schneider, is concerning acts of God, essentially. If the structure is destroyed by a storm, they have one (1) year to construct it, but if they voluntarily raze the building, under that particular Code Section, they cannot build it. But because the Town Core Plan is much more of a recent adoption, we would have to clarify that, really. Ms. Griffin: In that case, I suggest that we do defer until next month when we will have more information; both about the possibilities for this site. Hopefully some possibilities for maintaining this tremendously historic structure and possibly the Applicant here as well. If you agree, I would entertain a motion to that effect. Ms. Schneider: I make a motion that we defer until we hear something back from the Applicant and make some pitch to try to get them to keep the building. Ms. Wichman: I second. Ms. Griffin: It's been moved and seconded that we defer until we hear something back from the Applicant and can discuss with them the possibilities of keeping the building. Discussion? Mr. Chaffin Jr.: Yes. I'm concerned that the owner... that we're putting criteria on the owner that may not be financially in his or her favor. Ms. Griffin: Other discussion? Ms. Schneider: Is that in our kuleana? Ms. Griffin: No. We are here for historic preservation, not cost, but it's always important. October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 24 Mr. Chaffin Jr.: I think you have to consider that. Ms. Griffin: Thank you. Other discussion? Hearing none. Mr. Hull: If I could clarify for Commissioner Chaffin, too. Ultimately what goes on with review at the Historic Preservation Conunission is the KHPRC serves in an advisory capacity, and would serve in an advisory capacity to either the Planning Director if we're reviewing a Class I or over - the- counter permit, or to the Planning Commission if we're reviewing a Use Permit or Class IV Zoning Permit. That analysis does get taken into place particularly with some reviews at the Planning Commission level where they do take into discretion, as long as it's not a variance that you're talking about, but as far as exactions or requirements made upon applicants and the potential over - exacting, if you will, on a particular application. So that type of review is done, but I'll also defer to what Chair Griffin pointed out is that the purview of this Commission is really to look at the historic qualities and the historical resources and whether or not things like preservation or adaptation can be utilized. So I wouldn't worry too much about the financial side of it being that there will be another review of it, be it at the Planning Commission level or be it at the Planning Director's level, that you don't necessary have to worry about at this point. Just to, somewhat, unlay that concern. Ms. Griffin* Thank you for that explanation. Is there other discussion? Hearing none. All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote) Opposed? (None) The motion carries 6 :0. Thank you, and we'll look forward to your report next month. Re: Letter (8/25/15) from J. Michael Will, P.E., Program Engineering Manager, US Department of Transportation, Federal Highway Administration requesting to be placed on the Kauai Historic Preservation Review Commission agenda to discuss and review the Wainiha Bridges No. 1, 2,3; Bridge 7 E; Kapa`a Stream Bridge; and Hanapepe River Bridge. Ms. Griffin: Okay. Item D.3., New Business, letter from Michael Will, P.E., Program Engineering Manager, US Department of Transportation, to discuss and review Wainiha Bridges No. 1, 2, and 3; Bridge 7 E; Kapa`a Stream Bridge; and Hanapepe River Bridge. Staff, is there any...? Mr. Hull: We don't have a report on these particular ones. I think they are not actually coming for any zoning permits. This is disclosure before you for their 6E Review Process, Ms. Griffin: Thank you. Applicants? Nicole Winterton: Hi. I'm Nicole Winterton. I'm the Environmental Manager from Federal Highway Administration, Central Federal Lands. We planned to come before you last month, so we have had some updated project planning, so we did update some presentations for you. We figured you would appreciate the latest and greatest information, so we'll pass that out. Ms. Griffin: Terrific. October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 25 Ms. Winterton: I'll just go ahead and get started, if that's okay, while he's handing that out. Ms. Griffin: Please. Ms. Winterton: Like I said, I'm with the Federal Highway Administration, Central Federal Lands. We are a division of Federal Highways that does planning, environmental compliance, design, engineering, and construction management oversight of transportation projects. We typically work in the Federal lands, within or access to Federal lands, such as National Parks and National Fish and Wildlife Service Refuges. We've developed a partnership with the Hawaii Department of Transportation. Over several years, we've partnered up on some infrastructure jobs here in Hawaii, and have worked closely and developed a good relationship with HDOT; I'll abbreviate. We've developed into a five -year Memorandum of Agreement to deliver a program of projects with HDOT to help them deliver some critical infrastructure jobs, and also enter in a Peer -to -Peer Partnership with both agencies learning from one another the delivery, programming of jobs, and construction management of jobs. We have several projects on several different islands, but what we are here to talk about are the projects that we have here on this island. So the project that I thought that I'd start with, if it's okay with you all, is the Wainiha Bridges Project. As part of this partnership, we have four (4) projects on this island. We've also partnered with an A &E, Architectural and Engineering firm, to support us on delivery on a lot of the projects. The Wainiha Bridges Project is a little bit unique, so I'll primarily talk about that project. CH2M Hill is helping support the engineering and compliance for the other bridges on the island, so I'll hand it over to Kathleen Chu, with CH2M Hill, after we talk about the Wainiha Bridges. We also have representatives from Mason Architects and Cultural Surveys Hawaii, who are providing support from the historic architecture side of things and the archaeological side of things, so if questions come up, they are here to help (inaudible) their purview. Ms. Griffin: Before you start, just so I'll know whether we can go through or not, is there anybody that's in the public that's going to want to testify on any of these bridges? Okay, then we'll just go through one to the other. Thank you. Ms. Winterton: Okay, great. So I think going through the Wainiha Bridges Project, if you want to just kind of run through the slides with me, I think I pretty much covered the role of FHWA in this project. I really wanted to talk about that because I think you probably seen or heard from projects that are federally funded and worked with the division where in those roles, traditionally, HDOT is more the delivery agent for that project and FHWA acts as a Federal agency for the 106. In this project, we are doing the actual design engineering, so we are the lead agency for Federal. These are federally funded jobs, so they are subject to Federal compliance, so Section 106. They are also State projects on the State route, so they're also, you know, with compliance for the State laws as well. A little bit of project background for the Wainiha Bridges. They have a pretty long background; these are the bridges. We've actually been on this part of the island talking about it here tonight, so Wainiha Bridges 1, 2, and 3, which are the last one -lane bridges on your way to Ha`ena on October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 26 Kuhi6 Highway, the north shore section. The original Bridges 1 and 3 were constructed in 1904. The stream channel kind of carved a new path, and in 1931 we had a new bridge added. Tidal storms damaged the bridges in '46 and '47, so then we had a new period of significance with new bridges added in this timeframe between the 50's. Bridges 1 and 2 were replaced, and then we had. ..oh, I'm sorry, we had all of the bridges replaced, and then in '66 we had the east span of Bridge 3 replaced. So just a little bit of background. We have, kind of, two (2) periods of significance with these bridges that were in this location. In 2004, the Bridge 2 ... so they go in order, Bridge 1 is the eastern most bridge, and then 2 and 3 are two (2) bridges that operate essentially as one (1) single -lane bridge, so just a little bit of background on that. These bridges suffered damage from storms in 2004, and Bridge 2 was replaced. Under inspection in 2007, they were in a pretty bad state of disrepair, so there was an emergency proclamation for the Governor to replace the bridges. HABS (Historic American Buildings Survey) /HAER (Historic American Engineering Record) was done at that time, and new prefabricated modular steel structures that we refer to as Acrow bridges are in there now. That was placed as a temporary measure to secure funding for the permanent replacement, and also to get through the compliance and engineering of that. If we go to the next slide, just a little bit of reference, this is Bridge 3. In the lower right -hand corner, that's the existing bridge that's there now; that's the Acrow Bridge that we refer to. In the upper left -hand corner, that's the 1950's structure, the historic bridge that was present before that removal in the 2000's. Central Federal Lands came into this project and there was a lot of background on it. What we really tried to do is seek to understand. There's very strong interest in this project. We have a significant road; the north shore section of Kuhi6 Highway is listed on the National Register, and also on the State Register. Also, we knew coming into this that it was important to come up with a context sensitive design, so Central Federal Lands really spent time meeting with the community on the north shore, as well as the Hanalei Roads Committee to really understand what was important, as far as the aesthetic, the natural, the cultural features, so that we could try and develop the goals for the project. Through that process, and I think in the old presentation from last month, I really kind of went through the issues that we've heard from the public. If you're interested, I'd be happy to expand. But we heard a lot of different feedback on how the bridges are operating, and developed a purpose and need -for the project. The primary purpose is essentially to provide permanent replacement bridges for the temporary Acrow bridges that are out there. We also identified opportunities to improve operations, manage the maintenance requirements, and also to balance project improvements with the character of the historic roadway corridor. There are issues with sight distance and visibility crossing the bridges. We heard that the rail spacing of the steel bridges is difficult, and I've experienced it, too. It's difficult to see through and across. There are maintenance concerns with vegetation overgrowth affecting site distance. When they had to put those temporary bridges in, they also had to raise the grade of the road a little bit. So all different factors that we identified. We identified a lot of opportunities. One (1) other important thing that we also identified was the significance of the roadway, so it became a balancing act of evaluating what our project transportation goals were, with also the context of the roadway, but also just the aesthetic and natural values that are really important to the community. In kind of reviewing the historic significance and some of those project goals and improvements, we really tried to step October 105 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 27 forward a process, and this is where we really would like the Commission's feedback, and this is what we presented. We had our most recent public meeting on September 151h. We've stepped through an alternative evaluation process, and we're preparing an environmental assessment for the project, and identified alternatives based on what we heard. We don't think that we are going to carry forward for analysis and we'd like the Commission's feedback on that. And also on the flip side, alternatives that we'd like to really move forward with analysis, so preliminary design feedback as we move forward with that process. Moving forward, we identified a lot of opportunities for developing of the alternatives based really on the feedback that we heard and some of the engineering evaluation, which was the sight distance, traffic calming considerations. We heard interest in narrow bridges to help slow the traffic, accommodation of vehicle loads and navigation of emergency vehicles across and between the bridges; we heard feedback on that. Maintenance requirements, the aesthetics compared to historic roadway, historic alignment of the roadway, and then other design criteria and guidelines. Whenever we build new infrastructure or work on infrastructure, we have to document anything that we're doing that deviates from standards and guidelines. Some of the opportunities, and this is through p involved with the Hanalei Roads Committee, was of the roadway and bridge profiles to improve the like it was before, incorporating bridge rails that temporary Acrow bridges to address some of that alignment improvement between Bridges 2 and 3. ast coordination with HDOT before we were replacement of those Acrow bridges, lowering sight distance to get it back to a little bit more are shorter and more open than those on the sight distance problem, and then a very minor On the flip side, moving forward to the next slide, we did hear feedback on the challenges crossing those one -lane bridges, so there were recommendations on replacing the Acrow bridges with two - lane bridges so that you don't have that stop controlled traffic situation. We also looked at this because this is the standard design recommendation that if you were coming at a project today somewhere else in the world, this would be the recommended alternative for the type of roadway we have and the traffic number. However, considering the historic context and the current roadway operating and safety conditions, we're able to apply design exception to eliminate having to create two -lane bridges. Currently, that's being evaluated as an alternative to dismiss from further analysis, so we would certainly like feedback on that. Ms. Schneider left the meeting at 4:37 p.m. Ms. Winterton: Another option considered, which is always a consideration on a bridge project because you're crossing a stream is to replace the bridges with one -lane bridges on a new alignment. So that allows you the opportunity to build your new bridge, maintain traffic on your existing bridge, and then switch the traffic and take out the bridge. Basically, it shortens your construction period. We looked at that and it might provide some cost savings and time savings, but it didn't really outweigh some of the other disadvantages from the alignment change, and it didn't really offer design advantages. It's not like it was the ultimate improvement to make everyone see across and between the bridges. At this point, we anticipate dismissing that alternative from further evaluation. October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 28 So really where we're left is replacing the Acrow bridges with new one -lane bridges on a similar alignment, so that's closely matching the historic alignment with just a slight minor improvement on the tweak and curve between Bridges 2 and 3. As I mentioned before, we will have to have a design exception because typically one -lane bridges are usually only considered on very low - volume roads, but based on the conditions, the engineering team felt that could be justified. And as I mentioned before, lowering the profile of the road and the bridges to get it back more to the historic conditions. Then, as part of the National Environmental Policy Act process, we do need to carry forward the no action and no build alternative. A lot of the feedback from the community was interest in width and design considerations, so we looked at a lot of different factors, such as the Design Controlling Criteria; what recommendations are for lane width, shoulder width. We considered functionality; how vehicles can get across the bridges and between the bridges. Potential maintenance considerations for whichever bridges are out there. Pedestrian and bicycle safety; we heard was important. Driver perception and expectation; how they are able to operate on the roadway. And also the historic alignment considerations. They were all kind of factors, and advantages and disadvantages of different varying widths. Ms. Schneider returned to the meeting at 4:39 p.m. Ms. Winterton: What you see before you, and what I provided ahead of time with some of the layouts provided for each of the three (3) bridges is, where our team is looking at, as far as reviewing of DOT and Federal standards, what some of the conditions are out there, and that is essentially a 14 -foot clear width. It's a precast concrete girder bridge. On the slide, I have some of the lengths. So essentially you have, similar to the historic conditions, a single -span bridge for Bridge 1, approximately 50 feet, single -span for Bridge 2, and then three -span approximately 178 feet for Bridge 3. There are the historic piers in the water, but they are not actually functioning right now. The Acrow Bridge actually spans them, so for pennanent replacement bridges, we would need piers to support that length of bridge. Ms. Griffin: So you'd leave the old pier, but construct new ones? Is that what you're...? Ms. Winterton: Actually, the recommendation is to ... because what we need to do is match the hydraulics and the hydraulic opening with lowering the bridge, so the recommendation is to have a three -span structure with two (2) piers in the water similar to how the historic bridges were, but to put the new piers in and to remove the historic piers. So where exactly they would line up is still being evaluated because obviously they can't put it right where the old ones are. Ms. Schneider: What is the timeline for this? When would you be doing this? Ms. Winterton: We aim to get through the environmental compliance process winter /early spring, and then move towards completion of the design and securing the permits. It depends a lot on funding priorities with the State, but we find that as soon as we get everything done and ready to go, the money tends to appear. October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 29 Ms. Schneider: What's the duration for doing this? Ms. Winterton: Okay, so I include that a little bit later, but I should add that ... and I didn't include...our memorandum agreement with all of these projects with HDOT is essentially to do the full delivery and construction, and turn the facility back over to HDOT by 2018. So our goal is to get all of the projects that we are working with completed in 2018. The construction approach is a challenge on these projects, and I'll talk a little bit about that later, but the anticipated timeframe, to be conservative, was two (2) years. Ms. Schneider: And you're going to improve the sight lines for entry and exit of the bridge? Because that's really the problem now. Ms. Winterton: Yes. So that's the goal, to improve that, but I clarified to the extent possible because there are constraints in this location, and that goes to that balancing act of improvements while maintaining consistency with historic. Are there any questions on that? On the following two (2) slides, I have a photo of the existing Bridges 2 and 3, and a rendering of what we were thinking about for Bridges 2 and 3. Some of the feedback that we've heard, and I would love the Commission's feedback as well, you know, is really the community has grown to appreciate those 1950's bridges. From an engineering perspective, when you look at the type of the rail spacing and some of the challenges with the sight distance, it actually does provide opportunities for improvements with that type of rail design. With consideration of the design standards, we always like to have crash - tested rail when we do improvements. So we have identified a crash - tested rail that sort of plays off a little bit of the historic rail. It's a structural steel tube rail, and this rail here it's called the Wisconsin Type. We went back and forth on vehicle rail only versus vehicle combo rail, and landed on a vehicle rail, which is a little bit lower and part of that is opportunities for that improvement to the sight distance. It's top - mounted, and max post spacing is 6' -6 ", which is that max amount that you would want to put it towards to still meet the crash -test standards. We'd probably seek to get close to that again because that visibility through the bridge is problematic. Construction strategies. As I mentioned, the anticipated duration of construction is two (2) years, and it's depending on funding. Because these are bridges crossing the streams, it is a little bit hard, so we are talking about evaluating site conditions and how we can maintain traffic, and it's shifting the existing Acrow bridges, using them for construction, and shifting them makai to build the new bridges on alignment, and accommodating emergency access through construction. But there would have to be delays and very short-term closures for different milestones, such as moving the bridges. Another challenge for construction is leading up to these bridges, the three (3) original historic bridges crossing different streams, these are the Waioli, Waikoko, and Waipa Bridges, these are load restricted, and construction vehicles and equipment tend to be heavy. So we have evaluated this as a construction challenge, and the current recommendation is...because we do not want to affect the historic integrity of those original bridges, is to provide temporary bridges adjacent to or over so as to not touch the original bridges. October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 30 I have here, the second to last slide here, Waioli ... the approach is evaluating the site conditions, utilities, right -of -way, and opportunities of where these bridges could be placed under temporary conditions would be...Waioli, mauka of the existing; Waipa, makai of the existing; and Waikoko is a very short structure right on the coastline, and there we have an opportunity to actually go up and over the existing bridge, so building behind on each side and going up and over because we really don't want to negatively impact any historic structures. The next steps are.. we really want to get feedback, continue the design process, and refine engineering through different coordination with you all, the public, we're getting feedback from the public, SHPD, and other interested parties, and prepare the analyses and the reports, and prepare an Environmental Assessment. Any questions? Comments? Mr. Chaffin Jr.: Yes. I would appreciate getting this package in advance. You reviewing it in front of us is difficult for me. Ms. Winterton: Okay. I apologize for that. I did provide a presentation in advance for the last meeting; a lot of the information is similar. And we provided the drawings for each of the bridges. So we actually ... in preparation for the public meeting, really took an extra step. We've done a lot of coordination with HDOT to get to a comfort level. There is a pretty big deviation from what is typically the recommended design approach, and so we were seeking to get feedback from the public as well, and I just wanted to give the latest and greatest information. Feel free to absorb this information. We'll take comments through the process, really. Ms. Schneider: I appreciate that you've taken into consideration what those bridges looked like originally. Ms. Griffin: Other comments? Thank you. In a general way, it's for those of us who have dealt with roads and bridges for twenty (20) years or more. Having context sensitive solutions roll right off your tongue, you know, is music. To be talking about protecting the historic bridges, rather than all of the reasons why it's too expensive, it can't be done, the people are going to fall through, you know, height limitations, materials, but hearing the "can do" aspects is really a pleasure. I must say that with the Hanalei Roads Committee that they are consulting and in agreement is a really important component to this historical review. They know about the roads up there, and bridges. Thank you. So moving along to Hanapepe. Kathleen Chu: Hello. Good evening, Madam Chair and Commissioners. I'm Kathleen Chu with CH2M Hill, and if you can switch to your next presentation packet. I'm going to talk about three (3) bridges this evening; the Hanapepe River Bridge, the Kapa`a Stream Bridge, and Bridge No. 7E. I'll stop between each one so you guys can provide your comments on it. Ms. Griffin: Thank you. October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 31 Ms. Chu: Again, thank you for allowing us to share this information with you and getting your feedback. Moving on to Slide 2, the Hanapepe River Bridge is located on Kaumuali`i Highway. It's State Route 50 at Mile Post 16.5 in Hanapepe. This bridge crosses Hanapepe River and it's located between Hanapepe Road to the east and Puolo Road to the west. On Slide 3, this is a map showing the areas of potential effect for this project. I believe you received this in advance as well. Again, just to share with you some of the project background on Slide 4, the existing bridge was built in 1938, and it's a three -span reinforced concrete bridge. It measures 275 feet from the backface -to- backface of the abutments, and has an out -to -out bridge width of 38 feet. Right now it doesn't meet current roadway or bridge design standards. It does not meet any live load or seismic requirements as well. The existing bridge is classified as structurally deficient and functionally obsolete. In addition to the substandard load carrying criteria, it also has been identified as scour critical. Recently, and I guess in the past, too, there's been inspection of the existing timber piles. I'll go into more on the timber piles on Slide 5. There's been inspection. The DOT does inspection on the bridges every two (2) years. In 2007 and 2008, the existing pier and abutment foundations were... inspection was performed by Nagamine Okawa Engineers. In this inspection, this is where they first, I believe, noticed the undermining at both of the pier foundations and one (1) of the abutment foundations. Just in those two (2) years in 2009, they really noticed that some of the scour at these foundations has increased. Also, one (1) of the remaining unseen timber piles, ..there's been a lot of rot or marine infestation. They are not sure of the exact cause, but the timber piles, their load carrying capacity has diminished greatly. More recently, the DOT asked KAI Hawaii structural engineers to go out there after a heavy storm in 2012. They noticed that one (1) of the timber piles has completely been disconnected with the concrete cap, and another one of the piles, 80% of its circumference was gone. The timber piles that are below ground, the structure capacity of those cannot be accessed because they are under water and in the ground. Right now, the DOT does monitor the top of the pier elevations just to keep an eye on the bridge. Secondly, the bridge rail has deteriorated and it does not meet current bridge standards. You can see from some of the pictures that it is decaying. Okay? So on Slide 6, I wanted to share with you some of the alternatives that are being considered; one (1) is rehabilitation. As I mentioned earlier, the bridge is structurally deficient, and is scour critical, and the timber piles are decaying, so it needs a new substructure. The bridge needs a new foundation. There is no way we can maintain the existing foundation, so it does need a new substructure. In regards to the superstructure of the bridge, it does need a new deck. The bridge needs new bridge rails. It does need to be widened and it needs to be upgraded in regards to seismic and load carrying capacity. So that's a pretty extensive rehabilitation. It's practically all new bridge parts. The replacement is also one (1) of the options. And as Nicole mentioned, no build is also a requirement, just through the NEPA process. I'm going to expand a little bit more on the replacement option, which is on Page 7. This is the alternative that the project team is leaning towards, just based on the information I shared with you October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 32 on the rehab option. One (1) of the goals is to design with as little change as possible. With the bridge structure, we are looking at two (2) different types of, kind of, aesthetic alternatives. The new substructure would be drilled shafts. It would have new pier foundations. It would be 308 feet long and 52 feet wide, so the 52 feet width allows for two (2) 12 -foot lanes, two (2) 8 -foot shoulders, and the two (2) 5 -foot sidewalks. We would match the existing alignment and the profile as much as possible. We are not planning any vertical changes. We are going to continue to meet the 35 mile per hour posted speed limit, and there is no change in the 100 -year storm event, so hydraulically it's still good. Right now there is an existing 12 -inch waterline, a 12 -inch sewer line, and existing electrical and telecommunication lines on the bridge. Those would be maintained as well. The construction strategy for the new bridge would be to place a temporary bridge on the mauka side. The temporary bridge would be 28 feet wide to maintain two -way traffic. We do know this is a very important route and it's important to maintain the two -way traffic. The next few slides show you just some visualizations and some pictures. The first on Slide 8, this is a picture of the existing bridge. Then on Slide 9, this alternative shows a bridge that most closely resembles the existing bridge. It has an arch fascia that resembles the arch on the bridge now. Then Slide 10 shows the more traditional bridge structure that's also being considered, and this is a straight girder. Okay. We did have a public meeting on September 17'h. About thirty -five (35) members from the public attended. The questions that they asked were primarily ensuring that the temporary bridge could maintain access for their loads because there is a lot of concern with access to the landfill, and also access to the Pacific Missile Range. They were in favor of a new structure that would address any load carrying concerns as well. In regards to the bridge rails and the end post, on Slide 11, on the west side of the bridge it appears that the bridge end post has been rehabilitated in the past. The ends were altered by the installation of a flushed concrete barrier which transitions into your traditional metal guardrails. On the east side, one (1) of the end posts has also been rehabilitated, but on the south east end, the end post on the makai side, the existing post there has been maintained; existing radius cavetto molding is still there. Slide 13 shows a rendering of our proposed bridge rail. Again, we had to look for a bridge rail that would meet Federal Highways and the DOT crash -test standards, so this one here is a Texas Balustrade. It would be 42 inches high to meet bridge rail standard height for bicyclists. It is the same bridge rail that's out there on the Llhu`e Mill Bridge. This rendering here just shows you how the end post transitions would look as well. I'm here to answer any questions or get any of your feedback. Ms. Griffin: Commissioners, questions? Mr. Chaffin Jr.: On the alternate drawings you have, are there any estimated costs? October 10, 2015 K14PRC Meeting Minutes Page 33 Ms. Chu: Well the arch fascia is more expensive. I don't know the exact cost. There is another handout, an 11 by 17, which shows you the Alternative 1 and the Alternative 2. Also, another 8 �/z by 11, which shows how the fascia would be put in place. Ms. Griffin: Other questions? I have one (1) question. What is the current width of the bridge did you say? Ms. Chu: The current width is 38 feet, so I believe its two (2) 11 -foot lanes and the 5 -foot sidewalks, that's existing. Ms. Griffin: I know in Kaua`i's Land Transportation Plan there was a view to eventually expand Kaumuali`i Highway all the way out. I'm wondering if this 52 feet wide ... tell me what the 16 feet of shoulders is for, and additional 10 feet of sidewalks. Ms. Chu: Well the 5 -foot sidewalk ... there's an existing 5 -foot sidewalk on both sides of the bridge today, so we're putting back the existing sidewalk. The shoulder, it is primarily a safety. It's for if vehicles get stuck, for vehicles to pull over. There is no intention with this project for this to become an expansion of the two (2) lanes. I don't think the extension of a four -lane highway extended that far west. Ms. Griffin: Yet. (Laughter in background) Ms. Chu: At least in the 20 -year long range plan. (Laughter in background) Ms. Griffin: Okay. Also, on the railings, the existing bridge has a very interesting ... I don't remember seeing another with this profile on Kauai; it's very 30's, deco -ish. It was not possible to do anything similar to this that would still meet Federal Highway standards? Ms. Chu: You know, we did work closely with Federal Highways to find a bridge railing that had gone through crash testing that would most closely resemble the existing bridge rail. The Texas Balustrade was the closest that we could find with an opening. I know the opening is not quite the same. Ms. Griffin: Yes. It's an arched opening rather than this.. . Ms. Chu: Right, it's kind of a cross, yes. If we were to develop a new, ..this project would not be able to develop a new bridge standard and have it go through all of the crash testing that's necessary. So the Texas Balustrade is the one that most closely resembles this. Ms. Griffin: Other questions? Mr. Long: Well I have a comment about that response. On a number of our bridge projects, we've been working with DOT. Is it Mike? Ms. Griffin: Most likely it's Donald Smith. October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 34 Mr. Long: Yes. So we've asked them to replicate various bridge railings, and they've been able to do that. It appears to me that we have one (1) existing bridge railing and you went through some books to try to get as close as possible because you wanted to find something that has already been crash - tested; yet, wouldn't it be possible to take a look at the design so that we could get something that replicated the existing? Ms. Chu: I believe the bridge rails that the DOT have installed in place have been crash - tested; I mean, that would be a requirement. They would not be able to install a bridge rail that had not been, .well definitely none with Federal funding. It probably is one that they were able to find that is extremely similar to the existing rail. Mr. Long: But not ... sort of similar, but not really like it. Ms. Chu: Right, I understand. Mr. Long: So I would like to ask that DOT come back to us with a design of a railing that's identical to the existing; a replication of the historical railing within the certain guidelines, which we have been able to do in the past, rather than look in a book for a railing that has been crash - tested that sort of looks like it. Deputy County Attorney Higuchi- Sayema: I think these folks are here kind of to. ..through the process under the Federal laws, under requirements, reviewing cultural and historic resources. I would suggest that you folks make your comments, and then I'm not sure if...requiring the return ... I'm not sure how that's going to affect your folks' processes or ... I mean, if that could be accommodated. Ms. Chu: Our primary goal tonight is to receive consultation and receive feedback. Some of the next steps are...we are in the midst of doing our environmental documents. There is a goal to have the environmental documents completed by the end of the year. There has been some preliminary engineering that's been advanced; primarily just to determine what any impacts would be. We hope to have a draft EA out by the end, but we are also consulting with SHPD, so I think the process is going to... Ms. Winterton: Yes. I mean, I can't speak to what it takes to create a totally new rail. I could bring this, this is great input, and bring it back to our structural engineers to go and revisit, but I know they went through a pretty robust exercise to evaluate crash- tested available rails. It is a unique rail, and that's why it's hard to land on that close exact match. We can, again, revisit that, and I don't know if it's an opportunity to create a brand new rail though because of the robust process to get crash testing. With the infrastructure that we're providing and the speeds, I mean, that's the goal to have something that meets the standards. So I think the exercise was pretty robust, but we could definitely take that input, take it back, evaluate, and look at that. It sounds to me like the feedback that I'm hearing is that aesthetics related to the existing rail is extremely important to the Commission. October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 35 Mr. Long: As I'look at it, you're designing a whole bridge, and we're just talking about the railing; I mean, you have to design everything about that bridge. So to design a railing that passes crash - test ought to be part of your exercise in as the way I look at it. Ms. Nicole: Yes. I mean, I think that it's more complicated than that to go through, ..1 mean, they go through years and years and years of crash testing through the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. So I think there are certain parameters that they can, maybe, tweak when it still meets the standards like I was talking about Wainiha and the spacing and stuff like that, so we could take that feedback and provide it to the structural engineers and see what's possible. Mr. Long: Yes. I mean, on a design level, art deco is rectilinear and this railing has an arch in it, so you're actually taking away part of the cross section of the railing by introducing an arch. So maybe there are certain parameters of railing and steel and volume that your designers could take a look at? Ms. Nicole: Okay, yes. That's good feedback. Ms. Griffin: Other comments? Okay, moving right along. Ms. Chu: Okay. So the Kapa`a Stream Bridge on Slide 14. This one is located at Mile Post 9.8 on Kuhi6 Highway, State Route 56. It's on the east side of Kauai. This project also includes improvements at Kuhi6 Highway and Mailihuna Road intersection, which is located approximately 550 feet south of the bridge. The next slide, Slide 15, shows the area of potential effect for this project. On Slide 16, some of the project background. Kuhib Highway is a two -lane undivided highway with existing lane widths of 12 feet and shoulders on either side of the bridge range between 4 to 8 feet. There is an existing deficient two -span bridge that was built in 1953. It's also classified as being functionally obsolete. This one also has substandard load carrying capacity, and it doesn't meet current seismic requirements. This bridge has also been identified as scour critical. On this bridge, the condition and the capacity of the existing timber piles is unknown because it's completely underground. This existing bridge is approximately 150 feet long and it is 38.5 feet from out -to -out. Again, it doesn't meet the current width requirements, and the bridge railings and approaches don't meet current crash test requirements. And the Kuhi6 Highway and Mailihuna Road intersection is a three - legged stop control on Mailihuna Road. There is also this private driveway that accesses it to the northwest. Just a little bit more about the intersection, which is probably less of a focus for this Commission, but it does experience a lot of delay, and pedestrians currently are not accommodated. In the past, there has been seven (7) accidents within the project limits; none of theirs were fatal, but six (6) of them occurred directly from the people trying to make the left turn movement from Mailihuna Road onto Kuhib Highway. October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 36 So for the bridge, on Slide 17, the three (3) primary alternatives that are being considered are the rehabilitation, the replacement, and the no build. Again, the existing deficient two -span bridge was built in 1953 starting with the substructure. The current condition and capacity of the timber piles that support the abutments and the center pier are unknown, so right now we just don't know what the adequacy of the existing foundation is. To rehab it, we would have to do a pretty extensive retrofit to the existing foundation to make this a viable option. For the superstructure, to rehabilitate the existing bridge, we would need to widen it, we would need to take down the bridge rails, and this would, again, be an extensive process to strengthen the girders and make it meet seismic requirements, as well as the load carrying requirements. Again, we discuss the no build option as it being a requirement, and then there's the replacement of the existing bridge. Also on this bridge, with initial consultation with the State Historic Preservation Division, we had met with Architectural Historian Jessica Puff and she recommended that no survey work was needed for Kapa`a Stream Bridge. The bridge is not eligible for listing on the National or the Hawaii Registers of Historic Places, but the final determination will be made by Federal Highways, On Slide 18, we share with you what is being proposed. Again, the replacement is where the project team is heading. The new bridge structure would be a single -span concrete bridge, so we would remove the need of a center pier, and this would help hydraulically with flow conditions in the future. The new bridge would be 190 feet long with a deck width of 42.5 feet. This bridge ... we're not putting back the sidewalk, we're putting back two (2) 12 -foot lanes and two (2) 8 -foot shoulders, so the bridge would be widened a total of 4 feet; that's 2 feet on each side. Basically, the bridge railing would be 2 feet, 8 inches high. It would have a 10 -inch high metal railing for bike safety, so that would bring it to a total of 42 inches. This also most closely resembles the existing bridge rail. Again, the utilities would be maintained on the existing bridge. In order to construct it, we would place a temporary bridge on the makai side, so this would be between the existing bridge and the shared use path bridge. Slide 19 is kind of the visual simulations of "Before" and "After" of what the bridge would look like. We did have a public meeting on this bridge on September 18`1'. As you can imagine, most of the focus was really on the intersection. We didn't have too many comments on the bridge. Again, I'll just quickly go through the intersection. In relation to the intersection, on Slide 20, it is to improve the traffic operations by trying to help reduce delays and improve pedestrian safety at this intersection. For Mailihuna Road, the traffic does back up so it does have a level of service of F. Alternative 1 is a roundabout alternative, which would be a single -lane roundabout with a truck apron. It would have splinter islands and marked sidewalks on each approach. The single -lane would be 18 feet wide with an inscribed circle diameter of 130 feet. This roundabout would alleviate congestion and reduce delay on Mailihuna Road, and it would also provide a yield control on all legs. It does have a much larger footprint than the existing intersection, so this alternative would require a lot more grading. It would require more retaining walls, and there would be more encroachment in the undeveloped coastal area. October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 37 The next alternative, on Slide 22, is your more traditional intersection with full traffic and pedestrian signals, and crosswalks. This alternative would provide a new northbound left -turn lane on Kuhio Highway for those going onto Mailihuna Road, and a southbound right -turn lane as well. The northbound left -turn lane would provide' 180 feet of storage, and then the southbound right -turn lane would provide 150 feet. So this alternative would include, again, the signal of the marked crosswalks and lighting to improve conditions for your non - motorized modes. That's it for Kapa`a Stream Bridge, and the Kuhio Highway and Mailihuna Road intersection. Do you guys have any comments? Questions? None? Okay, Mr, Long: I have a comment. Ms. Chu: Oh, okay. Mr. Long: Where the new proposed railing for Hanapepe is similar to the existing, this one has no resemblance to the existing at all, in my opinion; it's like nobody even tried. The existing is somewhat art deco with bi- partake rectangular columns and a different rhythm in the railing, so I don't see any similarity between "Before" and "After ", at all. It doesn't look like it was picked out of a book; it looks like it was just poured concrete, the new railing. So it wasn't like somebody said "oh gee, let's pick a railing that's similar to the existing ", they just designed a straight pour. Ms. Chu: Okay. Mr. Long: So it's the same comment. Ms. Winterton: Okay. I think that's good feedback, and I can take it back, again, to our structural engineers. I don't know if ... I think with this bridge it didn't have as much ... not to say that we moved more towards that with Hanapepe-, but Hanapepe was a more historically significant structure, and I think that effort was very robust whereas I think the aesthetics were integrated into this, so I can bring that feedback back, but I don't think resembling or matching was identified as a goal, so if that's feedback that you think should be considered. Mr. Long: I'd like to identify it as a goal. Ms. Winterton: Okay, Ms. Schneider: Keeping the same rhythm as the old bridge. Mr. Long: Yes. Ms. Schneider: As opposed to this very even spacing that you have on the new bridge. Mr. Long: I mean, you have historical architects in your group, yes? October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 38 Ms. Wintertbn: Yes, Mr. Long, could you have that architect talk to that engineer? (Laughter in background) Because this is clearly designed by that engineer. Ms. Winterton: Yes, I mean, well we have Barbara here who can speak, so really we have the meeting and the minds that come together. Mr. Long: Are you the architect or the engineer? Ms. Winterton: So I mean, I think it's that balance of when we have that historically significant structure, there's the balance of striving to maintain or play off of the aesthetics, but we are not trying to recreate history. I don't know if that was the primary goal on this job. I think it's more of a sensitivity towards the community, and the appreciation for the structure that they are seeing. Mr. Long: Well, the structure that you see when you drive across the bridge is the railing. Ms. Winterton: Okay. Mr. Long: That's all you see. You don't see the girders, you don't see the... Ms. Winterton: We didn't get a whole lot of feedback on the rail itself, except for the visibility out while you're driving. Ms. Chu: Right, was to keep the bridge rail ... to not make the bridge rail too high as to maintain some of the visual plains; the makai / mauka. Mr. Long: Yes, I understand that. I would say that it's an architecturally significant feature on this bridge. When was this built? Ms. Winterton: Preliminary coordination is that it is built in 1952 or '53; Barbara could chime in. Mr. Long: Okay, so it was built in the 50's. Ms. Winterton: It's not viewed as eligible for the State, nor the National Register. Mr. Long: I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about it being architecturally and aesthetically significant. Barbara Shideler: If you believe it's architecturally... Ms. Griffin: Can you identify yourself? Ms. Shideler: Barbara Shideler with Mason Architects. It may very well be architecturally significant to the community. In defense of the engineers and CFL, when we consulted with State October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 39 Historic Preservation Division, they said that they did not believe it was historically significant, and in fact, it was removed from our scope of work. It's a common bridge type. It was identified as not of historic consideration. I mean, that's why we've come to the local community, to consult with you and get another voice on that. We hear that and it's something to take into consideration as we go forward. Mr. Long: Thank you. Ms. Winterton: We can have the meeting of minds reassessed, and connect on the architecture and the safety. Mr. Long: Yes, because SHPD has their standards, and historically significant is different than aesthetically significant. So I'm interested in the aesthetically significant aspect. Thank you. Ms. Winterton: Okay, that's good feedback. Thank you. Ms. Chu: Any other comments on the Kapa`a Stream Bridge? Mr. Long left the meeting at 5:23 p.m. Ms. Chu: So the last one is Bridge No. 7E. It's located on Kaumuali`i Highway on Route 50. This one is near Mile Post 7. The route is classified as Rural Minor Arterial, and it's the primary route from Lihu` e to the Koloa District. This bridge is just west of Maluhia Road. Slide 24 shows, again, the area of potential effect for this project. On Slide 25, just some of the project background. The purpose of this project is to improve Bridge 7E to maintain Kaumuali`i Highway's crossing of an unnamed stream and to, again, continue to provide a safe and functional component of the regional transportation system. The existing bridge was built in 1933 and again, the structure doesn't meet current live load, seismic, roadway widths, railings, or other requirements. This bridge is a reinforced concrete box that has two (2) culvert cells with wing wall abutments, and again, is structurally deficient. The bridge is 22 feet long and the width is 32 feet wide. Through this bridge, the existing highway is 10 feet. There are two (2) lanes that are 10 feet with 2 -foot shoulders on each side, and the posted speed limit is 50 miles per hour. Again, the project team looked at the rehabilitation, the replacement, and the no build alternatives. Right now, the top slab of the box culvert does not meet the current live load requirements. The bridge has also been paved over in the past. This would need to be strengthened, so if they strengthen the top slab, they need to increase the slab thickness and they would have to put in increasing reinforcement on the sides of the box, which may also affect the hydraulic capacity of the box and overstress the existing piles. So again, rehabilitation can be very complex, and again, the capacity of the existing piles is unknown as well. The project team moved forward into looking at the replacement option, and then there is the no build option that also needs to be considered. October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 40 Mr. Long returned to the meeting at 5:25 p.m. On Slide 27, the proposed bridge is 24 feet long. We are looking at a single -cell box culvert, so it'll be just a one (1) box culvert cell, versus two (2) cells. This will improve the hydraulic capacity. It will be 44 feet wide, so this would allow for your two (2) 12 -foot lanes and 8 -foot shoulders, and room for the bridge rails as well. We will put in crash - tested bridge rails. The intent is to match the existing profile and alignment of the roadway, so there will be no changes vertically or horizontally. We'll maintain the existing electrical and telecommunication lines. The next slide shows you the "Before" and "After" of what it would look like. Right now, most people don't realize they are going over a bridge. There is just guardrail and the bridge has been paved over. So in the future, you will see your standard concrete barrier. Any comments? Ms. Griffin: Comments? I noticed on all of these the area of potential effect includes under the bridges and some land. I know we have archaeology represented here, and none of that has been discussed, but I'm wondering if there are areas in any of these bridges that we've discussed, cultural archaeological sites that would have any kind of adverse effect. Gerald Ida: Gerald Ida, Cultural Surveys Hawai i. Just speaking generally, no, there's nothing really. At this point, we've done work on each of these bridges and we have submitted reports to SHPD, but they haven't been totally reviewed yet; they are still in draft form. We have had a meeting with SHPD to discuss the findings. We have done subsurface testing, as well as surface surveys of the surrounding areas of the bridges. It's been my experience when you do things like these bridges, because I've done a lot of bridges including Wailua, a lot of these places are pretty messed up where there is an existing bridge. I would have not expected to find anything and indeed we found very little. What cultural material, historical, and pre - contact artifacts we found are not associated with any kind of intact cultural layer or historical layer; they are just messed up. There are some artifactual material in there, but nothing you can really do any kind of analysis on. Ms. Wichman: So mostly backfill? Is what it looks like? Mr. Ida: Yes, because they messed the place up big time once they put in the abutments. Ms. Griffin: So for the purpose of this Commission, we don't need to be concerned about that aspect of the projects as they've been described. Mr. Ida: Like I said, the ball is in SHPD's court right now. I can see where they might require us to do potentially maybe just a little bit more subsurface work, but ... and there are some actual sites in these areas, but they are really kind of marginal stuff like historic culverts and stuff like that. Ms. Griffin: Culverts may become a big discussion at some point in the not too distant future. Mr. Ida: I know. Hopefully I will be retired by then. (Laughter in background) October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 41 Ms. Griffin: Thank you. Other questions of Gerald? I appreciate that. Thank you. Other general questions for Kathleen or Nicole? No. We casually gave you comments as we went along, so if there are no other questions, then may I have a motion to receive this information and documentation as we have it? Ms. Schneider: I make a motion that we receive this documentation as presented. Mr. Chaffin Jr.: Second. Ms. Griffin: Second, thank you. It's been moved and seconded that we receive the documentation on the bridges. Discussion? All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote) Opposed? None. The motion carries 6 :0. Thank you all very much for waiting so long, for being together with the presentation. Ms. Winterton: Thank you. Ms. Chu: Thank you. Thank you for your time. ANNOUNCEMENTS AND GENERAL BUSINESS MATTERS Ms. Griffin: We skipped a couple of pieces, and they are short. The first is the Announcements and General Business Matters. There is an announcement about the SHA Conference. Victoria, do you want to tell us about...? Ms. Wichman: I do. I'm one (1) of the co- Chairs for the Society for Hawaiian Archaeology Annual Conference that's coming up October 91h, 10th, and I1th. We have invited the Planning Department to come free of charge, so everybody here is invited. Mr. Furfaro, you are more than welcome to come, please. Friday evening, starting at 5 o'clock, 5:00 until 8:00, we'll have the Kauai Museum for the first hour; we'll have it all to ourselves. We are having a stewardship award, Naki`ikeaho Stewardship Award, which will be presented to Hui Makaainana o Makana out in Hd'ena. Our keynote speaker will be Mayor Carvalho, and he'll be speaking on his preservation efforts on this island, which I thought that was very appropriate. Ms. Griffin: So we need to listen to that. Ms. Wichman: Please come. It's open to the public here at the Kauai Museum next Friday night actually, and then on Saturday and Sunday at the Wailua...at Smith's Family Tropical Paradise Luau Grounds, we'll be having our conference; it starts at 8 o'clock in the morning. We have many papers. I know Saturday is kind of a bad time for Kauai because it's the same day as the Queen Emmalani up in Kokee, but we do have a lot of interesting papers going on, on that day. We also have conference papers going on, on Sunday, the l l th, and I tried to put most of our Kauai papers on that morning, so the Kauai people that might've went up to the Queen Emmalani would have an opportunity to hear papers from Kauai. As I mentioned, it's free for the County to come; October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 42 anybody in the County is welcome to come as our complimentary guest. We anticipate about a hundred (100) archaeologists showing up for this. Very interesting papers; there are several papers on Nu`alolo Kai. There are papers on Kauai Nui Kuapapa, which is the ahupua`a and moku signage project here on the island; interesting papers. I could send to Shan our schedule -at -a- glance. Mary Jane Naone and I are the organizers. We are still in the process of doing the last minute T's and I's on our program, so that won't be ready until the conference, but I do have the schedule -at -a- glance which we can pass around or email. Ms. Griffin: It's online, isn't it? Ms. Wichman: It is online. Our site is hawaiianarchaeology.org. Ms. Griffin: Did everybody get this 2015 conference...? So at the bottom of it it shows the hawaiianarchaeology.org. Ms. Wichman: Yes, it should have the website on there. So that should have all of the updated schedules as well. Food is included, so it's all good. There's a luau on Saturday night. You are all welcome to come to that as well. Mr. Hull: Commissioner Wichman, just for clarification, do say KHPRC members that want to attend, do they just show up and they'll be comped? . Or should they contact...? Ms. Wichman: It would be nice if people would let me know, if they would RSVP because I need a headcount for the food. So it's always good for me to know, and then I can have name tags that show who your affiliation is as well. It's a really good opportunity for networking with archaeologists. These are archaeologists that are from across the State of Hawaii, plus from New Zealand, California, Ohio, New York, and Alaska, several different states as well. We also have a workshop on Sunday afternoon on microfossils. It's kind of interesting. We have a professor from New Zealand who's coming up to give a paper, and since he came we thought we'd ask him to do one on microfossils and phytoliths, which has to do with plants, so it should be quite interesting. Ms. Griffin: Thank you so much. And thanks to you and our SHPD archaeologist, Mary Jane Naone, they have really, from what I understand, have put this thing together and it should be a really fine conference that all of us should be able to take advantage of. Thank you. Ms. Wichman: We're looking forward to it. Thank you. And specifically, I'd really like to invite you to the Mayor's keynote address on Friday night, and to honor Hui Maka`ainana o Makana. I think they are very worthy of honoring at this time. The Mayor is such a dynamic speaker that I think ... he's so enthusiastic about his preservation efforts that I'm looking forward to hearing him. Ms. Griffin: Thank you. Ms. Wichman: Thank you. October 10, 2615 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Pagc 43 Ms. Griffin: Any other announcements and general business matters? UNFINISHED BUSINESS (Continued) Re: Report from investigative committee members (Permitted Interaction Group) to discuss and explore strategies on informing the public and land owners on the State and National Register of Historic Places Nomination Process and Incentives for placing historic structures on to the National and State Register of Historic Places. Ms. Griffin: Going on to C.Z., the report from the PIG to discuss and explore strategies on informing the public. There is a printed report here at this point. One (1) of the two (2) possibilities that was on the report that we made last month was the possibility of putting the Shell Station on the National Register, so I just wanted to mention that. There was also, and we read in the minutes, I think that we had been suggesting our little mini education for this or next month, and that's why I was a little short, Larry, when you talked about cost because one (1) of the opportunities we have ... there are tax incentives. Buildings built before 1936 that are on the National Register can get a 20% tax credit on rehabilitation. There are things like that that if we know about, we will be able to discuss with applicants, people who come before us, and to be able to get the information out. I'm hoping that, Mr. Hull, if you can arrange perhaps if Ian Jung will come back and educate us on his time. Or we have some other expert who could give us that training next month; I think would be beneficial for us all. Was there anything else from our PIG that...? Re: Report from investigative committee (Permitted Interaction Group) to discuss and explore creating a Smart Phone Application to identify and highlight Historic properties on Kauai. Ms. Griffin: Then on C.3., report from the Permitted Interaction Group to discuss the Smart Phone App. Ms. Wichman: Nothing has been done, so I'd like to defer that. Kuulei and I have not gotten together. We were supposed to be talking with the Kauai Nui Kuapapa, and that hasn't happened as well. Ms. Griffin: Okay, great. Ms. Wichman: So defer it, please. Ms. Griffin: If we can just continue that on the agenda for next month. Re: Discussion on the status of the Certified Local Government. October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 44 Ms. Griffin: And then the status of the Certified Local Government, CA. I guess the most important question is, when are the applications due for the next round of Certified Local Government funds? Mr. Hull: It usually happens, I believe, in March. We'll double -check on that. Ms. Griffin: So perhaps if you can have in your tickler file to put in maybe our December or January agenda to start discussing possible projects. Inventory always comes up, but we do have the possibility of National Register nominations that our PIG has discussed. Mr. Hull: And on that topic, to use that as an agenda item to segue into the fact that concerning the current inventory that we have or don't have, it's ultimately, and I think the Commission, you are going to have to start wrestling with whether or not they want to do this, but ultimately there are issues that both the Department and SHPD have with the inventory that was produced, and perhaps that needs to be, essentially, pared down. Essentially what it looks like could be a possibility for you guys to put on the back burner and start thinking about is that, to utilize this body, essentially, to go through the list and establish an acceptable inventory, essentially. There is a fair amount of work associated with that, and meetings could be a bit longer, but the inventory list is one (1) of the most critical resources for this body and for the County, in terms of preservation and that is probably the only avenue because it lends itself to public discourse and transparency that would be acceptable, really. Ms. Griffin: That's great. I think that if we can establish another PIG so that three (3) or four (4) of us can do it, and then we can bring it back to the Commission and get it more efficient. So if you will remind us or have it as an agenda item next month. Anything else on the CLG? In that case, our next meeting will be next month, November 5t1i, and hope to see you ... yes? Mr. Long: I have a question and a thought. Ms. Griffin: Yes. Mr. Long: We came up with these four (4) neighborhoods to do a historic survey of We came up with four (4) because that seemed like a reasonable amount of work for them, but we don't know if Pakala will be included in that group because it's privately owned. My guess is that we likely will not receive permission from the owner to do that survey there. In my discussions with some of the Planning Staff, there was a concern that we didn't have enough neighborhoods on this list. So my consideration is, do we want to put Hanapepe and Waimea, which were the other two (2) communities that we discussed that we were going to be doing as a tier 2, phase 2, next year. Do we want to put those on this list so that we don't end up with less work than we possibly could have? Ms. Griffin: Thank you. And that was in my anxiousness to get everybody out of here, I didn't give enough attention to that part of the CLG. It was my understanding that Staff was going to October 10, 2015 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 45 compile the list of the several different areas that we discussed. Did that happen? Or did it just go down to...? Mr. Hull: As I understand, it just went to the four (4), but I have to double -check with Myles on that. Ms. Griffin: Okay. Mr. Hull: But we should make a note to bring that back at the next KHPRC meeting. Ms. Griffin: Okay. Yes, Myles did send a message saying that they are going to start doing their field surveys in October and November, but we don't really know... And they will have students as interns doing the inventorying and so forth, and the field surveys, and that they will let the Planning Department know when they have a real schedule for here. Mr. Long: In my conversation with Myles, he said that they are going to be relying on in -house Staff, students, and volunteers to do this survey work. I'm a member of the public; I would like to volunteer to be part of that team in that process. Ms. Griffin: They specifically said that members of KHPRC are welcome to participate. Mr. Hull: Okay. We'll have to look at that. I think having you as a volunteer would be wonderful, but then we'd also have to look at your ability to actually vote on that item though. Inadvertently you push yourself out of the decision - making process. because you may have to recuse yourself, but Jodi can look into that. Ms. Griffin: Thank you. Anything else on that agenda item? SELECTION OF NEXT MEETING DATE AND AGENDA TOPICS (11/5/2015) Ms. Griffin: Okay. Then the next meeting is set for November 5ffi, first Thursday. Is there a motion to adjourn? Ms. Schneider: I make a motion. Mr. Chaffin Jr.: Second. Ms. Griffin: Thank you. All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote) Thank you. Thank you all for taking the time. ADJOURNMENT The meeting was adjourned at 5:45 p.m. October 10, 201$ K-HPRC Meeting Minutes Page 46 Respectfully Submitted, Darcie Agaran Commission Support Clerk Date: 01411