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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2015-7-9OpenSpaceCommissionMinutesCOUNTY OF KAUAI Approved Minutes of Meeting OPEN SESSION Board/Committee: Public Access, Open Space and Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Meeting Date July 9, 2015 Location Mo'ikeha Building — Meeting Room 2A/2B Start of Meeting: 1:05 p.m. End of Meeting: 4:13 p.m. Present Members: Chair Patrick Gegen, Joseph Figaroa, Dorothea Hayashi, Randall Blake, Linda Dela Cruz, Teddy Blake, Shaylyn Kimura Also present: Deputy County Attorney Jodi Higuchi- Sayegusa; Planning Department Staff: Nani Sadora, Duke Nakamatsu; Boards and Commissions Staff: Administrator Jay Furfaro (left at 2:27p.m), Support Clerk Darcie Agaran Excused Absent Karen Ono SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION Call To Order The meeting commenced with a roll call of the Commissioners, Planning Staff, and the Deputy County Attorney. Chair Patrick Gegen called the meeting to order at 1:05 p.m. with seven (7) Commissioners resent constituting a quorum. Approval of Agenda Being that there were no suggestions for revisions to the agenda, Chair Gegen stated the agenda will stand as -is. Announcements There were no announcements. Approval of Minutes Minutes of June 25, 2015 Ms. Sadora stated that the approval of the minutes will need to be deferred because the minutes were not yet received. With no objections, this item was deferred. Receipt of Items for the Record There were no items to receive for the record. Public Comment All public testimony pursuant to HRS 92 (Sunshine Law) There was no public testimony. Unfmished I G.1. Update on recommendation to Coun Council for condemnation Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 Page 2 SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION Business resolution for a portion of TMK (4) 2 -6- 003:017 to obtain a pedestrian public beach access easement to Kukui`ula Bay through the former Hoban property and discussion on alternative pedestrian public beach access options to Kukui`ula Bay. Commissioner T. Blake asked if they set a floor on the price of where they start at after the condemnation resolution is accepted or passed to which Chair Gegen replied he's not sure if they have any ceiling or floor placed on the property. Chair Gegen stated he doesn't think they've gone forward with moving towards the acquisition, other than their suggestion that was made to the Planning Department. He knows that it was discussed at the last County Council meeting, but he doesn't know if the recommendation has been formalized or what the process is for it to go to Council. Commissioner T. Blake stated he's concerned that once Council receives the mediated price, it is out of the Commission's hands. He asked if it would be something the Commission would like to look at again if the price went up to $1.5 million or $2 million because that's a substantial price for 600 square feet of property that's ten (10) feet wide. Chair Gegen stated he doesn't believe that their current recommendation to Council had any sort of limits on it. Commissioner T. Blake asked if it's something the Commission wants to consider. He doesn't know what the rest of the Commission thinks, but he feels it's something they should at least talk about. Commissioner Fi aroa asked if he was talking about a cap value to which Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 Page 3 SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION Commissioner T. Blake replied yes. Commissioner T. Blake stated it would be a recommendation from the Commission. He added that if the mediated price is $1 million, he feels they could probably go for a couple other properties that would be just as good. Commissioner Hayashi asked if the $1 million includes the cost for Attorneys or if it's separate from the Commission's fund. Attorney Higuchi - Sayegusa stated that the presentation at Council kind of outlined the process. She explained that she thinks it's the Commission's role to make the recommendation along with the Planning Department's support, as well as making recommendations to Council. Attorney Higuchi- Sayegusa stated that Council is the body that decides whether or not to move forward with acquiring a particular property. Once Council makes the call to acquire a property, then it's up to the County Attorney's office to negotiate a price. If a price can't be agreed upon and it's not a friendly cooperative kind of sale, then it becomes the whole litigation process of eminent domain, which is to go in, take the property, and go through the court process to decide upon the just compensation for a particular piece. Commissioner T. Blake asked if it goes to a mediator or to court first if both parties don't agree to which Attorney Higuchi - Sayegusa replied it'll be through the County Attorney's office to take it to court through the condemnation process. Attorney Higuchi - Sayegusa stated that a mediator is not necessarily appointed, unless that's the process the parties choose to go through. She added that if they can't come to an agreement, it'll inevitably end up in Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION court and a litigation process. Ms. Sadora stated that in the Commission's acquisition plan, they outline what they're projecting as cost, which is what they're wanting to be considered based on the information that was investigated. As far as giving Council a ceiling, she doesn't know if that's in their purview to do that. She stated that the Commission has done their part by submitting a recommendation for consideration. Ms. Sadora explained the importance of the acquisition plan as it provides an outline of what the Commission has supported on how to move forward, which she thinks is the best they can do. Commissioner R. Blake stated that he disagreed with Commissioner T. Blake's recommendation. He thinks they should at least see the acquisition plan first. Ms. Sadora stated that the Commission already had a copy of the acquisition plan, but she can provide another copy if they need one. Commissioner R. Blake stated that he thinks the County Council is competent enough to know what a fair value price is and he trusts their judgement. He added that they have a fiduciary responsibility to protect the County's assets and spend it wisely, so he doesn't feel it's necessary to restrict them with a cap. Commissioner T. Blake stated he doesn't want to restrict them. He wants them to be conscious of the price, especially being in a high -priced area. Chair Ge en stated that he understands where Commissioner T. Blake is Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 Page 5 SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION coming from. He suggests following up from the Commission's standpoint and ensuring that it actually goes to Council in a formal recommendation. Commissioner Figaroa asked Ms. Sadora if the acquisition plan has been presented to Council to which she replied she believes it was brought to their attention when Chair Gegen gave his public testimony. Ms. Sadora also mentioned that they talked about it again when Mr. Dahilig did his presentation. She stated that she can't confirm if Council received it. Commissioner Figaroa asked if it's in the County Attorney's office to which Ms. Sadora replied it has been with the County Attorney's office and it has been with Administration. She believes when Mr. Dahilig gave testimony he said that it was held in the Department to see if the Commission's recommendation of condemnation will receive support from Administration and Council. According to Commissioner Figaroa's knowledge, the acquisition plan was put together and presented to the County Attorney's office. Commissioner Figaroa asked Attorney Higuchi - Sayegusa where is the acquisition plan to which Ms. Sadora interjected saying that the County Attorney's office receives the acquisition plan because they support this Commission. Ms. Sadora stated their recommendation went to Administration because it's looking for its transition to Council. It's a matter of whether or not Administration believes it's something feasible to go after or if they want to see if there's another measure that they could consider, which is where it was held up for a little while. Commissioner Figaroa stated that the recommendation went through and Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 OM SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION asked if the County Attorney's office supported it to which Ms. Sadora replied she doesn't think they need to be in support of it or not. Attorney Higuchi= Sayegusa stated that they're there to help the process move forward. She added that they're there to do the negotiation and acquire the property once they receive the "okay" from Administration and Council. Commissioner Figaroa stated he would like to have a clear answer of where the acquisition is exactly. Chair Gegen stated that he believes.it's ultimately in the Planning Department's court at this point in time. He doesn't believe a formal recommendation from Planning, which included the Commission's recommendation, has been transmitted. Chair Gegen asked Ms. Sadora if that was correct to which she replied correct. Commissioner Hayashi brought up the "Task Tracker" noting that it states the condemnation resolution was sent to Council. Chair Gegen stated that the Commission forwarded it to Planning, so it didn't end up going to Council yet. Ms. Sadora stated that the document is sent attention to. She added that it has a process that it goes through, so that's where it's been held because from the Commission and Staff s preparation on the Commission's behalf, the document has been prepared to circulate to Council. However, the Commission still falls under the umbrella of having the support of the Department, as well as Administration, before getting to the end result. Ms. Sadora stated that that's the part they are still working to figure out. Chair Gegen stated that in his humble opinion, the process needs work, but Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 Page 7 SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION as of right now, they made a recommendation that went to Planning and that's where it is currently. Ms. Sadora added that although the "Task Tracker" still needs to be updated, they decided to do it to keep the Commission well informed of where things are, but she wanted the Commissioners to keep in mind that they are a recommending body, so when they make their recommendation they've done their part. Ms. Sadora understands the frustration, and explained that as much as they're going to try to see it through and ensure that it comes to some kind of fruition, or that there's an answer she can provide to the Commission, they don't have control of that. She stated that she'll provide the Commission as much as she can, but if it gets held up for any reason, the Commission needs to know that that's something neither the Commissioners, nor Ms. Sadora can push for. Ms. Sadora stated that they will continue to push and do their part, and she'll report back to the Commission when they have information. She added that because they have no positive answer doesn't mean it's not happening; they're providing as much as they know at the time. G.2. Review and discussion on 4.860 -acre archaeological parcel in Po`ipu located at TMK: (4) 2 -8- 031 -199. Chair Gegen explained that this is the historical site that Commissioner T. Blake identified in the K61oa area where it continues to have wonderful archaeological remnants of the K61oa Field System. Commissioner Figaroa stated that at the last meeting, they collectively realized that the developer cannot develop on this parcel, so it shouldn't be on their recommendation list. In his opinion, they shouldn't move forward Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 UUM SUBJECT I DISCUSSION I ACTION with this because it won't be developed anytime soon and it's not a high priority project. Commissioner T. Blake stated that the south side of Kauai is the economic engine of the island; there's more hotel rooms, higher occupancy, and the highest average pay rate than anywhere else on the island. Also, there's the benefit of having a lot of archaeological sites. He stated that the K61oa Field System is the most unique in all of Polynesia, and all that's left are remnants. Commissioner T. Blake stated that this property probably won't ever be restored by its owner, and it's been sitting for about thirty (3 0) years and nothing has been done with this place. He feels that there's a renewed interest in the Hawaiian culture. Since people are talking about sustainability, Commissioner T. Blake stated there's no better example of taking something that is considered today as totally unsuitable for agriculture, and proving how the island was able to sustain itself for a thousand years without any help. He added that they've been doing a lot of private and non -profit work down there. When Commissioner T. Blake spoke to Jennifer Luck a while back, she said that $60,000 would be a really good price for this property. He stated that the sale price would be minuscule because it cannot be developed. Commissioner T. Blake stated that the Open Space Commission could buy the property in its entirety, but they'd like to get more people involved in the community, so they're speaking with Public Land Trust, Hawaiian Island Land Trust, and developers in the area. They're trying to raise half of the money, and will ask the County for the other half. Commissioner T. Blake feels this is low - hanging fruit and believes the Commission can build on this success. He added that the next time there's property in Po`ipu they want to purchase, they will ask the people who contributed for their help again. Commissioner Figaroa stated that he sees the vision for the project that Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 UM SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION Commissioner T. Blake has. He asked Commissioner T. Blake if he could raise the money to purchase the property to which Commissioner T. Blake replied if they could, they would have. He added that raising money is easy to talk about, but hard to accomplish. Commissioner T. Blake stated that he's been doing this for ten (10) years and they haven't had that kind of success. Commissioner T. Blake stated that when he asked Dr. Hal Hammatt regarding the last archaeological site, Dr. Hammatt said that it's probably the most important of sites because it has everything that the field system had. Dr. Hammatt and Cultural Surveys agreed to be a 50% partner in doing the restoration if they're able to obtain the property. It's of interest to him because he's been doing forty (40) years of research here and obtaining the property will give him the opportunity to put his research into action. Commissioner T. Blake doesn't think any other archaeological site in the State of Hawaii has the opportunity to work with Dr. Hammatt and Cultural Surveys, so he feels that it makes it even more challenging and more attractive. Commissioner T. Blake mentioned that within a few months, they'll dedicate the Holo Holo Koloa Scenic Byway, which is the only Federal scenic byway on Kauai. This was done privately, without asking the County for any funds. It has cost $130,000 so far. Malama o Koloa is championing this project because it's something that will give them a basis to build from. Commissioner Figaroa stated that it sounds like it's more of a restoration project rather than a preservation project to him. Commissioner T. Blake stated that every archaeological project is restoration, and hopefully there's enough volunteers, manpower, and Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 Page 10 SUBJECT I DISCUSSION money to restore. He added that they're going to restore it as it was, a field system. They plan to get water from the `auwai, planting lo`is and anything they can grow to show exactly what was done in, what was called, inhospitable land. Chair Gegen asked Commissioner T. Blake, from a Malama o Koloa point of view, if he wants the Commission to generate an acquisition plan at this point in time or if he's putting it on the Commission's radar so that they know it's something that might come up in the future. Chair Gegen stated that he thinks this is very valuable, but doesn't know how much it would cost. They would get that information from an acquisition plan. Commissioner T. Blake stated that he thought they were in the process of working toward an acquisition. He stated there are three (3) options in acquiring this property. (1) They can ask the owner, Angelina Laubsh, if she would consider a conservation easement and turning it over to the County, which she could receive tax benefits for. (2) By law, she's required to clean-up the property. Based on the price of the clean-up on the last archaeological preserve that was completed a few years ago, it would cost the owner upwards of $35,000. So they'd ask for her to credit the cost of the clean-up and apply it to the sale price. (3) To get partnerships. Commissioner T. Blake stated they're actively pursuing each option. Chair Gegen asked if he would like the County lawyers to start stepping in to which Commissioner T. Blake replied yes. Chair Gegen asked if they have started a dossier on this parcel to which Ms. Sadora replied no. Ms. Sadora stated that if it's the Commission's desire to start a dossier, she can do it. ACTION Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 Page 11 SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION Chair Gegen stated for clarification that working on an acquisition plan would not be an automatic recommendation to Council; it would just provide the Commission with information and their options. Then it would need to go back to the Commission for a vote. Ms. Sadora stated that that is correct. Chair Gegen recapped the discussion so far stating that one (1) Commissioner feels this is not a high priority to move forward on and another Commissioner who feels it is a high priority. Commissioner R. Blake stated that he's in favor of moving forward with an acquisition plan. Commissioner Kimura asked, in speaking with different organizations for financial contributions, if it was for the acquisition to which Commissioner T. Blake replied yes. Commissioner Kimura asked about the funding for the actual restoration and management, and how it will ultimately run to which Commissioner T. Blake replied they'll start planning how they're going to complete the restoration once they acquire the property. He stated that their plans need to be approved by SHPD. Commissioner T. Blake added that they'll be going through their list of developers in the area, and others in the community that may be substantial enough to help out. He stated that they will look towards grants after exhausting their resources with the developers. Commissioner T. Blake stated that he wouldn't feel right going back to the County to ask for funding on the restoration, but in Koloa, they have a CFD bond in Kukui`ula that can be spent on non CIP Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 Page 12 SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION projects in Koloa. Commissioner Kimura asked if the current landowner is aware of his group's plans, if Ms. Laubsh understands the cultural significance, and if she's supportive to which Commissioner T. Blake replied he doesn't know how supportive she is because he hasn't spoken with her himself. However, he knows that she's into historic preservation from the people he has talked to. After speaking with the landowner's realtor, Commissioner T. Blake was told that it will be well- received by the landowner, but he doesn't know how well- received. Chair Gegen stated that it will come out in the acquisition process. Ms. Sadora added that an option would be for Malama o Koloa to have a stewardship agreement of the area to be able to manage the restoration. Commissioner Figaroa asked if Malama o Koloa would do their due diligence first, then come before the Commission, at which point the Commission would decide if they want to partner up or not. Chair Gegen replied that's one way to do it. Chair Gegen stated he heard from Commissioner T. Blake that they are very open for the County to initiate some of that process. Commissioner Figaroa stated that he likes the partnering up idea of having them do their due diligence, and then partner up when they're ready because he feels it makes the process smoother. He's concerned that if they add a dossier process to the agenda, then another item will be put on the side, and it'll be a continuous cycle to where they end up with an `opala list. Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 Page 13 SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION Commissioner Figaroa stated that it seems like everything has been paved out because from what he understood from Commissioner T. Blake is that the owner is required by law to clear the area at her own expense, and if she can't develop on the property, that's another plus. Commissioner Figaroa stated that it seems Malama o Koloa has a lot of things laid out for them. He is more than willing to partner up, but instead of moving forward with a dossier process first, Commissioner Figaroa would like Malama o Koloa to do their due diligence and present to the Commission where they can fit in. Commissioner T. Blake stated that they're currently going through the process. He explained that Malama o Koloa doesn't want ownership of the property, they want it to go to the County so that it stays in perpetuity. Commissioner T. Blake stated that it's safe to have the County hold the property and provide stewardships because (1) he doesn't think the County will be able to move on it due to being in budget shortfalls. (2) There are two parties that are very interested, Malama o Koloa and Cultural Surveys. Commissioner T. Blake stated that his goal and the work that Malama o Koloa does is to have the south side of Kauai be the #1 heritage tourist destination in Hawaii. Commissioner R. Blake moved to formulate an acquisition plan for TMK: (4) 2 -8- 031 -199. Commissioner Hayashi seconded the motion. Chair Gegen stated that he feels this piece of property fits within their criteria and he believes that it'll be time well spent for Staff to look into it. He added that if it turns out to be favorable and the Commission decides to move forward with the recommendation that would be an appropriate time to ask the community what their plans would be for restoration. Commissioner Hayashi brought up the words "park reserve ", stating that Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 Page 14 SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION she heard a conversation about it and that she needs to research it. She asked if it dealt with State Historic Preservation. Attorney Higuchi stated that due to the fact that there are archaeological sites on the property, it will affect any development or proposed development. She added that by looking at it for acquisition purposes, there isn't anything that will trigger any procedural requirements under HRS 6e. Commissioner T. Blake stated that since the property is over fifty (50) years old, a plan must be approved by the State Historic Preservation Division before any work is done to the property. He added that this would take place after acquisition. Chair Gegen stated they should find out what the definition of "park reserve" is for future reference. Being that there was no further discussion, Chair Gegen called for the vote. Motion carried 7:0. Commissioner T. Blake left the meeting at 2:01 p.m. Chair Gegen requested for Ms. Sadora to send a letter to the County Attorney to identify what a' park reserve" is according to Hawaii Statutes and if it has any impact upon the Commission's decisions going forward. G.3. Update on vacant commissioner position. Ms. Sadora stated there is no update on the vacant Commissioner position. Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 Page 15 SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION Chair Gegen reiterated that there is one (1) vacancy, which is a Council at- large position. Chair Gegen asked if Ms. Sadora is aware of any recommendations that were sent to Council to which she replied no. Chair Gegen informed the Commission to contact a Council Councilmember if they would like to refer someone to fill the vacant Commissioner position. Commissioner T. Blake returned to the meeting at 2:03 p.m. Mr. Furfaro stated that a message as such was sent to the Chairman of the Council a couple of weeks ago. GA. Review and discussion on past recommendations and prioritization of the Commission's work plan/timeline of events and activities including spreadsheet of Commission's task list. Chair Gegen explained that they're discussing a process to receive public input for potential pieces of property. He stated that at the last meeting, they talked about not going to the County Fair this year, and they talked about attending community meetings and publicizing it in the newspaper. Ms. Sadora updated the Commission with information regarding the community outreach meetings. She stated that Koloa has quarterly general meetings, so she's not sure if it'll be sufficient for the timeline; however, Commissioner T. Blake will check with the new President. In Kapa`a, their meetings are held on the last Saturday of the month from 2:00 p.m. to Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 Page 16 SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION 4:00 p.m. at the Kapa`a Library, so they're able to get on the meeting agenda. In Kilauea, their meetings are held on the first Tuesday, so they're able to get on the meeting agenda as well. Ms. Sadora stated that she wasn't able to get information on the Waimea and Princeville communities. She mentioned that they could do something in Hanalei. Ms. Sadora noted that Commissioner Dela Cruz assisted with the Waimea and Kekaha community meetings last time. Ms. Sadora spoke with J, the Director for Ho`ike, and he stated that a PowerPoint presentation would be perfect if the Commission decides to do that. He would encourage them to keep it to a minimal amount of slides, but be very detailed. There would be no cost for this because Ho`ike will support it for the community. Ms. Sadora stated that in the past they've done PSAs over the radio with Bev Brody on Wednesdays. She feels that Felicia with KKCR would be okay with. it as well. Ms. Sadora added that she sent previous PSAs that was done by Mary with Administration to Chair Gegen. She explained that the information is provided to Mary and she'll generate the actual release that they can go public with. Ms. Sadora stated that they've previously purchased a color ad in the newspaper that ran on Wednesday or Sunday, which was the most viewed times. She noted that they included the survey in the newspapers that people could send in, but only one (1) survey was sent back. Ms. Sadora is unsure if it's worth the money to insert the entire survey in the newspaper, but suggested to use the newspaper as a means to inform and encourage the public to participate. Commissioner T. Blake suggested adding the Hana e e community to the Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 Page 17 SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION list as Commissioner Hayashi has been very instrumental in the organization. He stated they've had four (4) or five (5) meetings thus far. Commissioner R. Blake suggested using the Mayor's show as another option. Mr. Furfaro informed the Commission that the Mayor's show has been postponed indefinitely due to funding cuts. Chair Gegen stated that the Commission previously discussed attending the community meetings in September and October, discussing the recommendations in November, so they'd be ready to put together their final report in December. He suggested to contact the different community associations to come up with a schedule for the Commission. Chair Gegen felt that that would be the time to look at creating a PSA, as well as determining if they want to go out with some print media, so they would be providing definitive information to the public. Ms. Sadora stated that once they figure out a schedule for the community meetings, they'll need to post it as an item on their agenda. Commissioner T. Blake stated that two (2) years ago, they did public outreach in Hanapepe, Koloa, and the County Fair. Ms. Sadora confirmed stating that they went out to Kapa`a, Kilauea, Waimea, Koloa, and Hanapepe. Commissioner T. Blake asked if it worked pretty well to which Ms. Sadora replied yes. Ms. Sadora stated they've also been to Po`i u Beach and Salt Pond in the Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 SUBJECT I DISCUSSION I ACTION past. She added that they're trying to jump into the existing community meetings where the people that participate might be more involved. Commissioner Hayashi suggested to have a presentation given at her community association meeting because they're currently preparing to have speakers. She stated that they're meeting every Tuesday. Chair Gegen asked Commissioner Hayashi to assist in coordinating a date for the meeting. Ms. Sadora reiterated that when they're going out meetings, the idea is to have two (2) commissions short presentation, and hand out the surveys. She community can complete the surveys at that time, with the community association so they can assist Commission. to the community rs present, conduct a stated that the or the surveys can be left in soliciting for the Commissioner R. Blake asked if they must have two (2) Commissioners or is two (2) the maximum to which Ms. Sadora replied they don't have to have two (2) Commissioners, but it's the maximum. Ms. Sadora stated that they'll have Staff on -site at the community meetings as well. She reminded the Commissioners that they need to be clear and upfront when they make their presentations to make it known what their purpose is. Commissioner Hayashi asked if it's possible for a third Commissioner to attend the meetings, but not as a Commissioner to which Ms. Sadora replied yes. Ms. Sadora stated that the maximum number of Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 Page 19 SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION Commissioners that will represent the Commission is two (2). Commissioner Hayashi explained that she would rather sit in the audience. Attorney Higuchi - Sayegusa stated that they need to be clear on who's actually at the community meetings on behalf of the Commission and engaging in the process. Ms. Sadora expressed that they want for it to be a positive arena where they are trying to engage public input. She stated it would be good for the speaker on behalf of the Commission to have control of the meeting. To recap, Chair Gegen asked Staff to continue looking at and seeing if they can schedule the community meetings; ideally in September and October. Then they can determine which Commissioners will represent the Commission at those meetings. Ms. Sadora stated that she'll put together a calendar for the community meeting dates in September and October, and have it ready at the next Commission meeting in August. Chair Gegen asked Ms. Sadora to create a brief PowerPoint presentation of the Commission's history and purpose for the Commissioners to use at the community meetings. G.S. Review and discussion on access to Lawa`i Kai beach. Chair Gegen stated that the Commission has gone on field trips to this property. He stated that there are concerns about how the public is Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 Page 20 SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION accessing the beach. There is a formal access that goes along the ocean, which can be difficult or impossible to get to. Chair Gegen added that there is a special conservation district there due to the turtles that nest there, so there is concern about too much activity on the property. Commissioner Figaroa suggested taking this item off of their list because there is access, even though it's seasonal. He also mentioned that during the non - season, there is a process for the public to obtain a permit through A &B for access onto their property, which he feels encourages a conservation effort. After speaking with a few fishermen, Commissioner Figaroa realized the importance of preserving the wildlife in that very precious area. Commissioner T. Blake stated that he sat on the Citizens Advisory Commission for the special area zone at Lawa`i Kai, which was a six (6) year process to get it passed through DLNR and the State; monk seals and turtles were the big thing. He stated that when he was really young, no one used to go there, everyone respected that it was private property, but this was also when the population wasn't that big. Now with the influx of people, it's not unusual to see over 100 people down there. Commissioner T. Blake stated that if they pursue getting the access, they'll need to talk to two (2) property owners; Kukui`ula owns the road from the gate to the foot of the valley, and NTBG owns the valley. The road that was damaged during the hurricane would need to be replaced. Commissioner T. Blake stated that the reason they never replaced it was to prevent access, but that hasn't stopped the public. He explained that a fence has been erected on the old driveway, but people walk along the beach, pass the gate, pass the guard, then they go up, go through the fence, and climb down, which is really dangerous. When Commissioner T. Blake heard that the South Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 Page 21 SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION Shore Manager wanted to install a rod iron fence across the road down to the sea, he was against it. He stated that it would definitely raise public awareness and they would not be in favor. Commissioner T. Blake stated that after the hurricane, the Koloa community agreed to not push for access because they felt that NTBG is trying to protect the lifestyle of an ahupua`a. He was supportive of not having an access until he came to Open Space and heard about the non - accesses on the east and north side of the island. He stated that they visited three (3) places that were all contentious accesses. Commissioner T. Blake stated that he feels strongly both ways and doesn't know how to pursue this. If they pursue access, they will definitely receive fallback from NTBG, and if not, the public will continue to get down there. Commissioner R. Blake stated that he was curious about their previous discussion regarding Makai Watch, so he contacted Francis `Bully" Mission who is the Chief of Enforcement for DLNR. Francis stated that the Makai Watch Program continues to be supported by DOCARE, so Commissioner R. Blake believes it was part of the community plan, as far as he can remember from Commissioner T. Blake's discussion. If the Commission decides to move forward with trying to gain access, Commissioner R. Blake feels that the conversation with DLNR needs to be brought up again. Commissioner T. Blake stated that they have a program for Makai Watch Classes, but it's more community - oriented. They had a Makai Watch Program that was spearheaded by Kawika Winter from Limahuli. Commissioner T. Blake stated that they teach techniques of observation, but nothing to do with enforcement. In going back to the turtles, Commissioner T. Blake stated that they nest Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 Page 22 SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION one (1) time a year. He has seen one (1) nest at Nomilu this year, and Lawa`i Kai had its first nest a couple of months ago. Commissioner T. Blake explained that at Lawa`i Kai, they ribbon off the nest with yellow ribbon. He found out from DLNR that if a female turtle comes up on a beach to lay eggs and sees artificial light, she'll turn around and never return. Commissioner T. Blake stated that at Lawa`i Kai, there's one (1) resident staying in the Allerton House, but the lights are never turned on in the night on the beach. He noted that Nomilu is perfect because there's no lights there. Commissioner T. Blake stated that he hasn't seen anyone mess around with the turtles or their eggs. He added that he's never seen a monk seal at Lawa`i Kai, but he's seen them at Nomilu. Commissioner Hayashi is concerned that if they acquire access, the County is going to be responsible for it. She stated that it'll be a battle with the landowner, but they will need to clear up the area and make it safe for the public. Commissioner Hayashi asked if they're willing to go that route. She feels that it may be best for the future to leave the area as -is because there may not be another area where it's totally preserved. Commissioner T. Blake stated that the problem with that is the different commercial businesses, such as kayak tours, would take advantage of it. He added that it's illegal to launch from Kukui`ula and it's illegal to land on a beach without permission from DLNR. NTBG is definitely concerned about the public wandering freely on their property because there are no guards down there twenty -four (24) hours a day and there are other people who pay to see the gardens. Commissioner T. Blake shared that there was an instance where someone broke the hand off a statue, and another instance where someone was sleeping in the house. He reiterated that being from the area, it's a really hard call for himself. Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 Page 23 SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION Commissioner Dela Cruz stated that she agrees with Commissioner T. Blake regarding NTBG, and she feels it would be a big issue on liability. She feels that access shouldn't be acquired and highly agrees to remove it off their list. Chair Gegen feels that if they keep it on the agenda, it means they're going to do something with it, but they can take it off and wait for someone to bring up the issue, then they can reassess it at that time. Commissioner Figaroa moved to remove the review and discussion issue for Lawa`i Kai Beach off of the agenda, until there is a compelling reason to bring it back. Commissioner Dela Cruz seconded the motion. Motion carried 7:0. The Commission recessed at 2:39 p.m. The Commission reconvened at 2:52 p.m. G.6. Review and discussion on Kaha Kai Condominium parcel located at TMK: (4) 2 -8- 017:016. Ms. Sadora stated that this is an ongoing item on the agenda. She added that there's an acquisition plan already, and they're just waiting for communication from the Hui from Kaneiolouma to say that they are ready for the Commission to take action. Chair Gegen asked if the acquisition plan was put together by Kaneiolouma to which Ms. Sadora replied that it was put together with their input. Ms. Sadora stated that Uncle Rupert attended the meeting to listen, he Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 Page 24 SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION didn't have any updates to share, but just that they are continuing to do their part to get it moving. Chair Gegen stated that according to the presentation to Council, Rupert is trying to avoid condemnation and working to see if it can be acquired in friendly fashion. Commissioner T. Blake asked if Kaha Kai is the entity that owns the Nukumoi parcel to which Ms. Sadora replied correct. Chair Gegen stated that the Commission will continue to support the Hui from Kaneiolouma as needed and as they can. Commissioner Figaroa requested for Staff to notify the Commissioners the next time anything on their priority list is on Council's agenda. Ms. Sadora stated she will forward the agenda to them if it has anything to do with the Commission. G.8. Review and discussion on Trust for Public Land request for the Commission's consideration regarding the Embracing Kuleana at Waipa Project: Kaluanono. TMK: (4) 5 -6- 004:010 and Halulu Fishpond Access, TMK: (4) 5 -6- 004:017. Ms. Sadora stated that this is another situation where there is a partnership. She explained that Waipa is still waiting for their appraisal to be completed, so nothing has been able to move forward as of right now. Commissioner T. Blake asked if this is for access to the fishpond to which Ms. Sadora replied it's for two 2 parcels, Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 Page 25 SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION Commissioner T. Blake asked if it was from the main road to the fishpond to which Commissioner Kimura replied the access road to the fishpond is included in one (1) of the parcels, so it is part of the fishpond. Commissioner T. Blake asked about the second parcel to which Commissioner Kimura replied it's a landlocked parcel. She added that when you enter Waipa on the mauka side, it's the land right above where they grind poi, if you follow the stream; probably 100 yards or so. Commissioner Kimura stated they use part of it as a garden. Commissioner T. Blake asked who the landowner is. Commissioner Kimura stated its Can Corp, but Ms. Sadora stated that the documentation they received shows its Wai`oli. Chair Gegen reviewed the information that was brought before Council; the estimate cost of $1.5 million, County share of $1.3 million, willing landowner, partnering with the Trust for Public Lands and Waipa Foundation, and the appraisal is being conducted and will transmit appropriations bill after receipt of appraisal. Ms. Sadora stated that she thinks the cost is the total for both parcels. Commissioner T. Blake asked who would take title if this is successful to which Ms. Sadora replied the desire of Waipa is for them to take ownership. Ms. Sadora stated that the Trust for Public Lands is working together with Wai a, and they're doing their own appraisal, which is what everyone is Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION waiting for in order to move forward. She stated that the Trust for Public Lands' timeline needs to be updated because they anticipated to have their completed appraisal by this month, but it's taking a little bit longer than expected, and last month they were supposed to have received the Legacy Lands funding. However, Ms. Sadora stated that they are communicating with the landowners, so they know the appraisal needs to be completed in order to move forward. G.9. Review and discussion on Alexander Dam. Commissioner Hayashi stated that Scotty Vidinha was supposed to attend the meeting, but he had other commitments to tend to. She added that he knew the details, so she was hoping he would be there. Commissioner Hayashi felt that there seems to be no interest, so she's unsure if the Commission wants to keep it on the agenda. Commissioner Figaroa stated that he thinks it fell out of interest because no one wants to take responsibility for the old government road leading up to the dam. Commissioner oner Hayashi asked if it's blocked off to which Commissioner Figaroa replied he believes so. Attorney Higuchi - Sayegusa stated that she doesn't know the dynamics of that area and doesn't have any background on this particular location, but if the Commissioners have questions about a road in limbo or paper roads, then she can prepare a response. Ms. Sadora stated that apparently there are no dynamics as it is now; it's Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 Page 27 SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION just hearsay. She added that the Commissioners were given the minutes of the last known meeting where the discussions took place, so that they could have an idea of the dialog at that time, but there is no proof. Ms. Sadora stated that nobody is admitting to doing any wrongdoing. Commissioner R. Blake stated that he brought this up at their last hunter's education session and reviewed it with Elton Ushio, their master hunting instructor for the past eighteen (18) years, and Elton confirmed that the access is denied there. However, there is another access into the hunting area; they just have to go a different route. Commissioner R. Blake feels that this is the reason for the Commission not seeing an overwhelming support or vocalization from the hunting communities. Commissioner T. Blake asked if it's a government road and if so, then why is it closed off? Commissioner Figaroa recalls former Deputy County Attorney Jung stating that it's considered a road in limbo. Commissioner Figaroa stated that it's such a headache because the County doesn't want to claim it, nor does the State; no one wants liability of it. Commissioner T. Blake asked if it's actually State property and the County hasn't accepted ownership to which Attorney Higuchi - Sayegusa replied that a road in limbo is where it's unknown who has the legal title. She added that it's arguable whether it should be DLNR that owns this road/trail, but at some point through legislation, the State said they conveyed all localized roadways to the Counties. Attorney Higuchi- Sayegusa announced that she's providing general information stating that the Counties' position is that they don't own it until they accept it, and they don't accept it until their legislative body accepts ownership. She stated that this sounds like it fell through the cracks and no one has taken Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 MM SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION ownership or accepted it, so it's considered a road in limbo. Commissioner T. Blake asked if it was by legislation or executive order to which Attorney Higuchi - Sayegusa stated State legislation. Commissioner T. Blake stated that his understanding of roads in limbo was by executive order. He added that the State's position was if they don't name the roads, then it's belonged to the County. Attorney Higuchi- Sayegusa agreed. Commissioner T. Blake asked if it's a road or a trail to which Attorney Higuchi - Sayegusa replied it sounds like a trail or unpaved road. Chair Gegen stated that it would have vehicular access if the gate was open. Commissioner Hayashi stated that it's a road because she remembers driving up there to pick lilikoi. Chair Gegen asked if a property owner next to a road in limbo can gate off that road to which Attorney Higuchi- Sayegusa replied that they can protect their own personal property. Commissioner T. Blake asked if it would fall under the purview of Na Ala Hele since it's a trail to which Attorney Higuchi - Sayegusa stated that that's part of the argument as well because the Counties also Osay that it's DLNR because they handle trails, accesses to hiking areas, etc. It's not leading to any neighborhoods or County infrastructure. Commissioner Figaroa moved to remove this item off the agenda until it is brought back to the Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 Page 29 SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION Commission's attention and more information is available. Commissioner R. Blake seconded the motion. Motion carried 7:0. New Business H. 1. Review and discussion on presentation to Council on June 24, 2015 regarding PL 2015 -01 Communication (05/07/2015) from Council Chair Rapozo requesting the presence of the Planning Director and the Countv Attorney to explain the process that occurs before and after the Public Access, Open Space, and Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission selects properties for acquisition, including a detailed summary of the Commission's current priorities; and the Eminent Domain process, and how it relates to the Commission's process and the acquisition of properties. Commissioner R. Blake stated he was able to review the PowerPoint prior to arrival. Commissioner Hayashi stated she had the opportunity to view the presentation. She was a little disturbed because she always thought that the Commission's "boss" was Council, but she found out from the presentation that their recommendations go to Administration. Also, she was surprised that the order of their top four (4) priorities were incorrect in the presentation. Commissioner Figaroa stated he was surprised as well because they voted the Kekaha property off the list two (2) meetings ago. Ms. Sadora noted that it was one (1) meeting ago. Commissioner Figaroa asked if the presentation was updated to which Chair Ge en stated the Council meeting was before the Commission's last Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION meeting. Ms. Sadora stated the Commission went through the acquisition process for this parcel, where they had support for it, but it was through the investigation beyond that that they decided it wasn't the best way to go. Chair Gegen stated the Commission never made a recommendation for Planning to submit to Council. Ms. Sadora stated that they didn't, and that the report is coming from the Department. She added that this parcel didn't necessarily involve the Commission because there was a willing landowner. Ms. Sadora explained that this might happen sometimes because even though it doesn't come from their recommending body, it's something they had as part of their recommendations list back in 2009. So even though it was an acquisition plan, the support for the recommendation came from the Department and Administration. Ms. Sadora explained the Commission's mandate stating that their biennial recommendations are circulated to Mayor and Council. As a Commission, they are assigned to the Planning Department, so the Planning Department oversees the Commission. Anything that comes out of the Commission goes through Staff to the Planning Department. From the Planning Department it goes to Administration, then Administration to Council. Ms. Sadora explained that that is the internal process, it's not outlined in any written document yet. As far as what the Commission is mandated to do, there is nothing in writing that explains a process beyond their recommendation list. She added that the Commission decided to do the acquisition plan to help facilitate moving a recommendation. Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 Page 31 SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION Chair Gegen added that it was based on feedback from Council saying that the Commission wasn't providing them with the tools to move forward. Chair Gegen reiterated that the process is they make a recommendation to the Mayor and Council. He stated that they made a recommendation on January 23rd to the Mayor, but it hasn't gone to Council. He asked if they should recommend it to Council now. Ms. Sadora replied saying she thinks that's the clarity that will always be the debate. She explained that when the Commission makes a recommendation, it has the support of the Department, and then it goes to Administration. Chair Gegen stated that the Commission doesn't need the support of the Department to make a recommendation. Ms. Sadora stated that the Department oversees what comes out of the Commission and added that it's something the Planning Director needs to speak to the Commission about. Chair Gegen felt that this is why the process should be outlined with certain times. For example, if they make a recommendation that goes through Planning, there's a sixty (60) day window for it to be transmitted to Council or it will be bypassed. He stated there should be some kind of process, otherwise it isn't democracy in action. Ms. Sadora reiterated that prior to the presentation to Council, there was no outlined process. After they make the recommendation, they've done what their mandate says. Chair Gegen disagreed saying they haven't because they didn't make the Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 Page 32 SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION recommendation to Council. Ms. Sadora stated they made the recommendation by means of their annual report. Chair Gegen stated they did not formally ask for an acquisition. Attorney Higuchi - Sayegusa read the ordinance that establishes the Commission. She clarified that their role is to work with the Planning Department, develop the annual and biennial list, solicit the input, and prepare the report for the Mayor and Council to review. The report should include, but not be limited to, a list of accomplishments, challenges, future goals and objections, and recommendations. Commissioner Figaroa understands where Chair Gegen is coming from. He stated that some recommendations were sent to Administration, but not to Council; therefore, they're not fulfilling their role which states "Administration and Council ". Commissioner Figaroa stated they are working with the Planning Department, "but if the Planning Department doesn't approve of what we're doing, then who's to say it just doesn't get thrown in the trash; which I'm pretty sure happens ". He added that some of the items have been on the agenda for five (5) years, since the Commission first started, and they continue to discuss it. In regards to the Hoban property, Commissioner Figaroa senses Chair Gegen's frustration because the process has changed ten (10) times from when he became a Commissioner, and they are still discussing a process. Commissioner Figaroa stated that the Commission looks foolish when they o before Council because they have millions of dollars in the fund and Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 Page 33 SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION Council asks why they aren't spending any money. He questioned if it was because of the Commission or the Planning Department, Commissioner Hayashi asked if they can present an amendment. Going back to Chair Gegen's statement, Commission Figaroa stated he would love to have an amendment that would provide a timeline. He feels everything should have a timeline. Chair Gegen explained that he feels the timeline would mean that within sixty (60) days their recommendation should move forward; however, it doesn't mean that the Planning Department and/or Administration can't say that they understand it's the Commission's request, but they need more time to look at it. Chair Gegen stated that as it is right now, Council does not know what the Commission wants to do. Commissioner T. Blake asked if he's suggesting a sixty (60) day timeline from the time it leaves the Commission to the time it gets to Council or sixty (60) days for Planning to approve it, sixty (60) days for Administration to approve it, and then it's sent to Council. Chair Gegen replied no. He stated that Planning works at the behest of the Mayor, so when the Commission makes a recommendation, there's no reason that the Planning Department and the Mayor can't be notified immediately; within the next two (2) days. Chair Gegen stated that he understands that it may take longer than sixty (60) days if an appraisal needs to be done, but that way it would be easy for the Commission to inform Council that they recommended a property, there are certain hurdles that they need to overcome, so now Planning is involved, and this is the expected timeline. Attorney Higuchi-Sayegusa asked for clarification if the recommendations Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 SUBJECT I DISCUSSION I ACTION were to develop the biennial list. Ms. Sadora noted that it's the biennial report. Chair Gegen replied no because the Commission is doing the dossier process now, so they aren't waiting for a two (2) year recommendation. Ms. Sadora stated that the dossier is part of their process now, but the mandate states that the biennial list they submit is by their biennial report. She added that the dossier process is one (1) of the mechanisms the Commission inputted as part of the new ordinance. Commissioner Figaroa asked if the dossier process can have an amendment to recommend timelines on the communication process to which Ms. Sadora replied that they can do whatever they want. However, whether or not they abide by the timelines, she doesn't think that they have a position to state that as a body, unless it becomes part of the new process. Commissioner Figaroa felt that they have the authority because when they present their report to Council, Council asks them what can they do to improve, what are their frustrations, etc., so they're trying to hear from the Commission and asking what they can do for them. Commissioner T. Blake asked if this sort of timeline request needs to be approved by Council to which Ms. Sadora replied she's unsure if Council needs to approve it. She added that Council is currently trying to define a process of how things are communicated. Commissioner T. Blake asked if the Open Space Commission has administrative rules to which Ms. Sadora replied yes. Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 Page 35 SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION Commissioner T. Blake stated that in order to change administration rules, it must be approved by Council. Ms. Sadora stated that she thinks the Commission's rules were internal. She doesn't think it is part of what Council approves. Ms. Sadora indicated that she thinks there is going to be continued communication between the Department, Administration, and Council to define what the process is now. She stated that it hasn't been part of their mandate before; as far as what happens when a recommendation is made, where the acquisition plan goes, etc. Now they understand the importance of it, so that there is action that can happen. Ms. Sadora stated that in the eyes of the public, the Commission is sitting on $5 million. From being on Council's floor, it received attention and now they see that there is no outlined process in place, so there needs to be one that is understood by all parties that are connected to it. Ms. Sadora added that she wants to refer to the dossier as an acquisition plan going forward. Commissioner Figaroa asked what happens if the Planning Director doesn't agree with the Commission's recommendations to which Ms. Sadora replied she can't speculate on where things are going to go because she doesn't know the outline of the new process. Commissioner Hayashi stated that she feels the Commission should be part of the decision - making for the new process because they are the ones that are frustrated, and they will be the ones affected by this new process. From his experience in dealing with Council, Commissioner T. Blake Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 Page 36 SUBJECT I DISCUSSION I ACTION stated that if they want to move ahead, someone has to take it upon themselves as a Commissioner and say that they'll bird -dog it through that Committee. He added that recommendations may sound great to the Mayor and the Planning Department, until another one comes in and that first recommendation gets pushed back, further and further. Commissioner T. Blake stated its learning how government works, and that when you know the process and you fill in the holes, your gratification comes quicker and lasts longer. Chair Gegen agreed, stating that he feels part of the frustration is coming from the fact that under the real rules, the Commission only gets their say every two (2) years. However, with the dossier process, they expected to be able to go offline and make recommendations that would be followed in a timely manner, not a two (2) year timeframe. Commissioner T. Blake suggested to take the added initiative to talk to the Planning Director and ask for updates. Also, speak with the Planning Committee at Council because they listen to constituents; whether you're a board member or not. He stated that it may not be the way they like it, but that's how it works. Ms. Sadora shared her side stating that the Commission is appreciated for the work and time they put in to make recommendations. However, it's not always going to be one (1) person's decision on where the recommendations go, and that's the internal process that they have to go through. She stated that she can feel the Commission's frustration because she sits on the other side where she doesn't see any gratification as well. She noted that she doesn't need to see gratification, but she wants to see it because she wants the Commission to feel that there is direction and Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 Page 37 SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION movement in the work they put in. Ms. Sadora stated that the Commission will be constantly reminded that they are a recommending body. She added there's a process that happens that she doesn't put in place and they don't have any control over. The recommendation is taken as far as it can be taken. Ms. Sadora stated that it's not being thrown in the trash, but people need to do their due diligence to see if it's something they will support. She added that although it may not be in the timeframe they would like, the process is continuing to happen. The recommendation(s) remain on their list, she knows what they want to do, but when she asks for an update and she can't get one, it's not for the lack of asking or lack of information, it's just that there is nothing available to be reported back. Ms. Sadora reassured the Commission that she's on the side of always advocating for them to be able to get things to happen. If they decide to advocate on their own and talk to the people involved that may have traction, she feels that's great and she'll be there for support. Ms. Sadora explained that she knows the Commission wants to see their recommendations go to the next level, but everything must go through a process first. Commissioner Figaroa thanked Ms. Sadora for expressing her side. He explained that his frustration comes from the fact that their recommendations have not necessarily been heard. Commissioner Figaroa understands that they're doing their job by providing recommendations, but he stated that it ends up in some sort of abyss where months later they're discussing the same thing. He stated that he's heard of three (3) separate dossier processes that have changed, but were not implemented. Commissioner Figaroa asked what the official process is. Ms. Sadora replied that the process has always been the same. It's always Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 Page 38 SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION going to go from the Department, to Administration, then to Council. She explained that when there is a situation that's dealing with condemnation, there needs to be someone who supports that condemnation, so there is dialog between the Department and Administration. Chair Gegen wanted to mention three (3) things. (1) They haven't completed their duty on Hoban because there has been no recommendation to Council; it was only made to the Mayor through the Planning Department. Chair Gegen felt that they need to have a direct mechanism or timing on it. (2) He's concerned with the fact that Mr. Dahilig represented the Open Space Commission at Council, without a Commission member present, stating that Kekaha was the Commission's #2 recommendation. Chair Gegen stated that it was misrepresenting the work their body has done and/or their decisions, which he felt was not okay. (3) In regards to the final slide of the PowerPoint presentation, which states the Managing Director and the Planning Director will meet with the Commission, Chair Gegen suggested that they spend some time at the next meeting to discuss the steps of the process before they meet with the Managing Director and the Planning Director. He stated he will be mapping out a process and the Commission can help him fill in the holes. Chair Gegen brought up the sixty (60) day timeframe as a suggestion again. Commissioner Figaroa stated he likes the sixty (60) day timeframe. Commissioner T. Blake stated that when an applicant comes before the Planning Commission, if it's not looked at within a certain time, it'll pass automatically. He added that he understands the frustration, but he also understands that their budget is not what it used to be; they have less meetings and less staff. Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION Commissioner R. Blake asked Attorney Higuchi- Sayegusa if they can amend or recommend to the Council that they amend the Commission's ordinance to have this timeframe where once they vote on an acquisition plan, it has to be presented within a certain time. Attorney Higuchi- Sayegusa replied that it's one way of doing it. She stated that they could seek to amend the ordinance to set exactly what the procedures are, but at this point, it's an inter - departmental process and she doesn't think it is necessary. Attorney Higuchi - Sayegusa added that it could be done with policies and the understanding between the Department, the Commission, and Council. Commissioner R. Blake asked if policies are subject to change from one Administration to another to which Attorney Higuchi - Sayegusa replied yes. Commissioner R. Blake asked if it's an ordinance, will it be need to be revised and passed to which Attorney Higuchi- Sayegusa replied yes. Commissioner R. Blake stated he didn't want to have the Commission go through this situation again when another Administration comes in and changes the policy. Being that Attorney Higuchi- Sayegusa is new to the Commission, she stated that she doesn't know how things happened when the Commission first began, but she feels that coming to an understanding might be worthwhile. She added that an ordinance change is a whole other beast which might take a while. Commissioner Hayashi stated that she wanted to know the definition of Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 I' 1 SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION "review ". She feels that it's a broad term and she wants to know what it means when they "review" the Commission's recommendations. Chair Gegen stated that he's not as concerned about the review process. He's concerned about the recommendation getting to Council, so Council can act on whether they approve it or not. Attorney Higuchi- Sayegusa explained that Council makes the decision, but there's the Administration piece as well because there is the money portion of it, too. She stated that the decision is twofold. Chair Gegen asked Attorney Higuchi- Sayegusa what she meant about the money because Council controls the budget and they are the ones to release the funds. Attorney Higuchi- Sayegusa stated that's correct, but they need both pieces to move forward. Chair Gegen stated that ideally they do, but "you've never seen the Council do something Administration doesn't like ?" Attorney Higuchi - Sayegusa replied that's true. Chair Gegen stated that he's not tied to the outcome, but he's tied to the process, which says they are supposed to make recommendations to the Mayor and Council; however, they've only done one (1) so far. He suggested that they either create their own mechanism to go directly to Council through back channels, or create an upfront process where the Mayor forwards the recommendation to Council, even if he hasn't finished reviewing it and/or doesn't have a recommendation. Chair Gegen stated that if the Mayor needs seven (7) years to review it, he's fine with that, but if Council wants to move on it, he feels they should be able to move on it. Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION Attorney Higuchi- Sayegusa stated that it seems the dossier process was developed as a means prior to the ordinance. She added that the ordinance establishes the base of what's required. Chair Gegen stated that the dossier process was created to complete things in a timely fashion. He mentioned that the Kekaha property might be approved, even though the Commission didn't want it to. Chair Gegen stated that it's fine, but it's just not a recommendation from Open Space. He added that all they can control is their recommendations, so when their recommendations are blocked from going where they're supposed to, there's a problem with the process. Attorney Higuchi - Sayegusa stated that the dossier process is not necessarily required by ordinance. Commissioner R. Blake suggested that maybe it should be required in the ordinance. Commission Figaroa agrees with Commissioner R. Blake. His reasoning was that it just takes one (1) person to not like the policy and change it. Commissioner Figaroa stated that with it being in the ordinance, it can stand as the process. He recalled that the dossier process was created through the ordinance because they needed a communication mechanism. Commissioner Kimura joined the conversation acknowledging that she's "the new kid on the block ". She stated that she's a real estate agent, and prior to that, she had twenty (20) years in business where it's all about deadlines and timelines. She mentioned that you can't close a real estate Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 Page 42 SUBJECT I DISCUSSION I ACTION transaction unless all your contingencies are met, and you can't meet your contingencies without a timeline. Commissioner Kimura wanted to publicly express her appreciation for all of the Planning Department's hard work. She felt the Commission was going off track a little. Commissioner Kimura reiterated that the last slide of the PowerPoint presentation stated that the Planning Director and Managing Director will meet with the Commission, so she believes that the Commission's concerns can be addressed and the process building can take place after they hear from them. She could sense the Commissioners' frustration and thought that at times there's an assumption that they have more power than they really do. Commissioner Kimura apologized if it offended anyone. She added that there's an undercurrent of things that occur that is way bigger than the room and the people sitting there. Chair Gegen stated that hearing them say what their direction is, is different than experiencing it for the past four (4) years. He added that he's taking what they've experienced as what their reality is. Commissioner Kimura stated that she doesn't have a right to say what she says because she hasn't experienced it, but instead of looking at the presentation as a negative she felt that it can be a springboard, and that it presents a great opportunity for dialog. In her opinion, Chair Gegen should have at least been at the presentation. She added that she's a firm believer of the ho`oponopono process; she has seen it work, both personally and professionally. If the process is in limbo, Chair Gegen explained that he would like to map out a process and have a proposal ready to present to the Planning Director and the Managing Director. He stated that he can initiate it, but would like Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 Page 43 SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION the Commissioners to review it before it's presented. Chair Gegen added that he's open to the Planning Director and the Managing Director coming before the Commission at any time, but he thinks that it would behoove them to finalize their ideal process beforehand. Chair Gegen stated that it's exciting and he looks forward to meeting with the Planning Director and the Managing Director. He would like to obtain information that would help the Commission be more effective in their work. Chair Gegen added that he would like their recommendations to be solid. Commissioner Kimura stated that she feels the Planning Staff work really hard and they have the best interest at heart, as do the Commissioners. However, she reiterated that there is an undercurrent of the way things work that are not going to change. She informed everyone to keep in mind that their proposal may not go anywhere, but on the same token, to honor the work that has been done, so that it can be improved moving forward. Chair Gegen stated that no one's comments were meant to take away anything from the Planning Department's work. He understands Ms. Sadora's frustration because she has pressure coming from both sides; the Commission and the Department. Going back to the PowerPoint presentation on the Commission's process where it says "Mayor and Council ", Commissioner Kimura's impression is that they receive it simultaneously. However, Commissioner Kimura heard Ms. Sadora say that it's actually "Mayor then Council ". She suggested that it should be changed to "then" because then the assumption won't be that they necessarily receive it at the same time. Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 SUBJECT I DISCUSSION I ACTION Chair Gegen stated that the ordinance says, an annual report for the Mayor and Council to review; but that's the annual report. He added that it doesn't explain the acquisition plan or the dossier process. Commissioner Hayashi thanked Commissioner Kimura for bringing their focus on how they should be working together. She stated that she tends to get emotional. Commissioner Hayashi thanked Ms. Sadora as well for all of her work. Chair Gegen expressed that if the Planning Director and the Managing Director agree to the process /plan they come up with then he would like to give it a try. If it doesn't work, then he would like to go directly to Council and inquire if they want to receive recommendations from the Commission, or if they want to go through a process that may take a year and a half for them to receive. Chair Gegen stated if Council is okay with waiting, then he's fine with that. If not, he suggested that they can follow up with an ordinance. Commissioner R. Blake asked if Mr. Dahilig is scheduled to come before the Commission to which Ms. Sadora replied she doesn't know if they have outlined a particular day yet, but she'll get back to the Commission. Chair Gegen suggested that in two (2) meetings would be a sufficient time for the Planning Director and the Managing Director to come before the Commission. He would like one (1) meeting to discuss a process. Ms. Sadora stated that Mr. Dahilig is currently off -island and she doesn't know if they already discussed a date, but she'll provide an update at the Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 I.,__ ,, SUBJECT DISCUSSION ACTION next meeting. Commissioner T. Blake requested for Chair Gegen to write a letter to former Deputy County Attorney Ian Jung to thank him for being there and doing a good job in representing the Commission. Chair Gegen stated that he'd be happy to do that. Next Meeting Chair Gegen announced the next meeting date is on Thursday, August 13, Date and 2015, at 1:00 p.m. at the Mo'ikeha Building — Meeting Room 2A/2B. Agenda Topics for Discussion Chair Gegen stated that the following agenda topics will remain on the next meeting's agenda: Hoban property, the 4.860 -acre archaeological parcel in Po`ipu, the vacant commissioner position, past recommendations, the Kaha Kai Condominium parcel, and the Waipa Project. He would like to add discussion on a recommendation process or dossier process to the agenda. Commissioner Hayashi requested to add the state lands area near to Salt Pond on the next agenda. She's interested to find out if there was any movement on the property and the status. Commissioner T. Blake stated that the place name for that area is "Waimaka O Hi`iaka ". Chair Gegen asked for it to be placed on the next agenda. Commissioner R. Blake stated that he will be absent on August 1P. Adjournment Chair Gegen adjourned the meeting at 4:13 p.m. Public Access, Open Space & Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission Regular Open Session July 9, 2015 Submitted by: Staff Support Clerk () Approved as circulated () Approved as amended. See minutes of meeting. Reviewed and Approved by: Patrick Gegen, Chair