HomeMy WebLinkAbout03/31/2017 Fire Department, Police Department Fire Department
Honorable Arthur Brun
Honorable Mason K. Chock
Honorable Derek S.K. Kawakami (present at 9:13 a.m.)
Honorable Mel Rapozo (present at 9:04 a.m.)
Honorable JoAnn A. Yukimura
Honorable Arryl Kaneshiro
Excused: Honorable Ross Kagawa
The Committee reconvened on March 31, 2017 at 9:03 a.m., and proceeded as
follows:
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Good morning. I would like to call to order the
Budget & Finance Committee and the Fiscal Year 2017-2018 Departmental Budget
Reviews. On the schedule today, we will be hearing from Fire and Police. As we do each
morning, we will take public testimony. Anyone in the audience wishing to testify on this?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back to
order, and proceeded as follows:
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: We will get right into business. For today, we
have Fire first. We will take the Divisions by Administration, Operations, Prevention,
Training, and Water Safety. If you want to give just an overall outlook, we will ask any
questions. If you have any specific information, try to keep it in the Division, and we will
ask the questions there. You may begin now.
ROBERT F. WESTERMAN, Fire Chief: Good morning, Committee Chair
Kaneshiro and Council. Robert Westerman, Fire Chief, for the record. This morning, I
have Deputy Kililpaki Vaughan; our Administration Officer, Rose Bettencourt; we have our
Prevention Captain, Darryl Dante; our Training Captain, Mike Scovel; and then we have
Ocean Safety, Randall Ortiz. Kalani is enjoying himself in New Zealand, surfing in a big
championship. I am sure he will win. The rest of the Division folks are here with us.
Noticeably absent are a majority of the folks that were with us last year, and that is in an
effort to save overtime dollars because all of these folks work programs for us and
sometimes they are not on shift for the day. So we have relieved them and said, "Hopefully,
we will have all of the answers you need."
We will start with just the budget discussion that you have in your presentation.
We will go through that real quick, and then we will open it up. We are just going to talk
about the differences in the budget for this year, what we did for some saving since last
year, and what we are planning on doing for saving this year. As you know, we have an
increase of about eight point seven percent (8.7%). The largest of that is for $1,900,000,
which are the employee benefits that come out of the Employee Retirement System (ERS)
and Other Post-Employment Benefit (OPEB). We would like to not see that increase, but
there really is very little that we can do about that. Then, we have a slight increase in
utilities of $5,000, little bit of increase in equipment for $120,000, and that is putting the
engine lease back on the budget. Then, the net operations is a modest increase of$104,000.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 2
First off, I would just like to talk about the process we went through. When we start the
budget, we fund it all and then we go back and look at it, we cut and cut and cut and cut.
We cut about $300,000 out of our initial look at the budget. We went with the
Administration and working with the Administration, we cut back about another $480,000
in different places. Then after that, the Administration takes a look, we give them our
priorities for equipment, and then they re-put back in what they think the priorities for
equipment can be, and then that was done and you will see that in the different Divisions.
Currently, we have had some savings dollars. We did return $316,000 last year. It is a
pretty modest return. We did the best we could to hold down our costs. Then, we also
absorbed a couple of things that really do not reflect in the budget, that you really need to
understand. We absorbed $190,000 in workers compensation medical benefits, and we
absorbed $78,000 in unfunded payments that go to vacation payouts. So we have a lot of
things because they are all dollar-funded in the budget and the assumption that we can
move moneys around as we move through the year, so that you know those are already
absorbed.
Then, we also like to talk about some savings. Last year, we came back to you after
we did not get the grants for our Automated External Defibrillators (AEDs) and
self-contained breathing apparatus (SCBAs). You were loud and clear saying, "Get the best
value and the best dollar you can." We insisted on the larger amount and we are glad you
supported that, but we were able to get some savings. The Purchasing Department and the
State Purchasing Officer finally have agreed to sign on to the National Association of
Procurement Officers (NASPO). It is a program whereby nationally, just about everything
that you can think of is bid in big, national contracts. One of the big savings for us is the
time. If it is in a NASPO contract, you can simply go out and a couple of folks that have
already bid, have them give you their bid, turn around, your purchase is done, and do your
contract. But for that, we were able to save in the AED purchase, $20,000. For the SCBAs,
we are looking for another $40,000, and we are hoping on this next engine purchase using
the new apparatus contracts that have been added to NASPO, maybe another $120,000 in
savings. We have looked everywhere we could in order to be successful in obtaining
savings. As usual, we constantly apply for grants. We are up to $14,000,000 over the last
nine (9) years. This year will be the last year we report about the Volunteer Assistance
Grant because we did not get it and it no longer exists. It is one the major cuts that is
coming out of the Administration. Homeland Security as we know has been cut and cut and
cut, but we were successful. We received $36,000 to replace our Blower Hazmat suits, and
we received $20,000 for the Community Emergency Response Team (CERT) trailer for the
north Shore. We also got an extension because there was about $6,200 left in our Staffing
for Adequate Fire and Emergency Response (SAFER) grant from our last SAFER grant.
They allowed us the extension so we could take those costs and bring those costs in to save
us another $6,200. We have done some applications and again, with the tightening
budgets, I do not know how successful we will be, but we have applied for a rehab vehicle
for about $209,000. Then, we did some Community Development Block Grant (CDBG) as
usual. We make our bravest attempt, and this year instead of purchasing vehicles, we are
asking them to support our Capital Improvement Project (CIP). One of them, as you know,
is the asphalt in the back of Kalaheo Station is terrible, the drainage is terrible, and it is
not just to go and patch it. We got $150,000 out of CDBG to help support that project. We
are also hoping that, and we got a little bit of money for that. They think that they can do
it inside, we want to put rooftop solar and rooftop solar air conditioning (AC) so we can get
rid of the window ACs and help reduce our energy costs by putting solar air conditioning
units. So it will be our first station to make that attempt and see how effective it is going to
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 3
be for us. We always do whatever we can, again, to support our budget outside of the
budget. The Friends of Kaua`i Fire Department is supporting our Fall Prevention Program
to the tune of $42,000 over the next two (2) years. We also received $3,500 each year from
the State Department of Health, Fall Prevention and Awareness Program. Again, that is
helping reduce costs, and continue to do our programs. Of course, where would we be
without our friend in the audience and Kauai Lifeguard Association (KLA) President,
Dr. Monty Downs? $105,000 last year, was their donation. Again, the Council agrees to the
Roving Patrol and KLA committed to purchasing equipment for the Roving Patrol. They
have definitely come through with that. We also received an HMSA Foundation Grant for
$30,000. It is used to purchase thirty-two (32) training kits that go into the schools so that
when we do our hands-only cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) in the school, it leaves
behind the kits so the health teachers can help practice with the kids. It is not we just go in
and teach them and walk away. There are some things left behind, and then some AED
trainers.
As we move forward, a couple of things we are doing, we are purchasing the targeted
solution software and using the moneys from the Fire Prevention fees. This software is
designed to provide us training on the job, in-house, off of overtime. So that will provide
some overtime savings in the future. The other savings we gained from that is Honolulu
and Maui Fire Department are always using it. So all the training modules we do not have
to purchase and buy because simply, Target Solutions is going to allow us to share the
training modules between the departments because some of them are locally made or have
to be purchased. So it allows for a sharing of all of them in the Country. Our National
Registry Emergency Medical Technician (MREMT) class to help start improving services
out on the beach and not just in the Fire Department. We have started to add Ocean Safety
Officers to the EMT class, so we have two (2) going through it right now.
We reported in there that we are going to have some significant problems with
purchasing the laptops for the new program with Ocean Safety Bureau (OSB) so they can
do online reporting and everything right there at the tower. Information Technology (IT)
has come up with a better solution working with our folks. We are going to be able to use
the new air pads, which are like $650 with the big plastic case and all of that kind of thing,
versus $3,500 for a laptop. So that is going to be significant savings as we move forward. It
was already cut out of budget because we just knew we could not afford that amount, so
now we can just absorb that cost within the budget.
We are working on the video. I do not know if you have seen it yet, but it just came
out, the new video for the airport. We are very lucky in that the marketing of that has just
skyrocketed. You are going to see it in Wal-Mart, you are going to see it in hotels, you are
going to see it at the car rentals, and all of those places. A lot of them have signed on
saying, "We want our piece," and then of course, they will do their little own advertisement
on the bottom of it. We have gotten a lot of support from them in order to facilitate that.
The last thing, again working with KLA, the Rotary Club put up the Jet Ski hale in
Po`ipu. We do not have a place to service our vehicles with a rack or our smaller vehicles.
In working with them and KLA, we are trying to come up with a solution and a building in
Koloa next to the current Jet Ski hale where we can run our slight trucks in and the
mechanics can work underneath them without having to be on crawlers and things like
that. So all of our light trucks, that facility will help us provide that service. That is pretty
much a quick overview of the difference in the budget, what we tried to do to save last year,
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 4
and what we are trying to do to save last year. We are open to questions and any other
things you would like to talk about.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Thank you for that good presentation. Do we
have any questions on this presentation? We will take those first. Councilmember
Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you. It is some really good things that
you have reported out. I am so pleased you are using this national procurement system.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: I know I have inquired once whether the counties
in general, our County, could use the National Association of Counties (NACo) procurement
system, but you have pointed out some real advantages like pre-certification and so forth,
as well as economies of scale pricing.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you for leading the way on that.
Chief Westerman: You are welcome.
Councilmember Yukimura: Your software training, can you explain that?
Chief Westerman: Target Solutions?
Councilmember Yukimura: What is it called?
Chief Westerman: Target Solutions.
Councilmember Yukimura: Target Solutions. I did not quite understand
that.
Chief Westerman: We actually had it in past, and the Department
of Human Resources (HR) was using it to do recurring trainings where essentially we put
up a training module and let us say it is the training that requires us to...oh, there are so
many of them. What is one of the employee ones?
KILIPAKI VAUGHAN, Deputy Fire Chief: Good morning, for the
record, Kilipaki Vaughan, Deputy Fire Chief. I believe that the County of Kaua`i Human
Resources had it maybe about four (4) to five (5) years ago. They used it for some so-called
workforce training. Honolulu Fire signed on a couple of years back, as well as Maui. There
is about four hundred fifty (450) hours' worth of training modules online so we can kind of
capture some productivity better in the stations. So that will help us, again, try to glean
back some of the overtime opportunities that are out there and curb costs.
Councilmember Yukimura: They are more generic type of training? I mean,
maybe you could give a couple of examples.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 5
Mr. Vaughan: Okay. As far as Fire Inspector I or Firefighter I,
there are certain standards that follow National Fire Protection Association.
Councilmember Yukimura: Oh, I see.
Mr. Vaughan: There are certain hours that we have to
accumulate each year and required training. So rather than hosting a live class...
Councilmember Yukimura: Right.
Mr. Vaughan: ...we can do this in-station. The analytics come
out and tell us what person did what, who needs to get caught-up on their particular
training for the year, and it will capture all of that. Again, just on the Fire side, I believe
there is four hundred fifty (450) hours worth of modules.
Councilmember Yukimura: Wow.
Mr. Vaughan: There is also community health, Emergency
Medical Services (EMS) type of things. There is Occupational Safety and Health
Administration (OSHA) based opportunities as well.
Councilmember Yukimura: Wow, what a resource, and it is Fire-specific and
the Firefighters can do it as they have time available. So does every fire station have a
computer?
Chief Westerman: Yes, every individual now has an E-mail address,
and Ocean Safety is now coming on-board with that. So any recurring training
requirements that we have, even if it is an HR requirement, which is what we were doing
before, can go on there and they get their E-mail saying, "You have to study this or you
have to go out to Target Solutions and do this course." It then documents the amount of
time that you were on. They even set a standard on you cannot just go out there and say,
"Oh, I did the safety module" and two (2) minutes later, click off because it is going to tell
you, "No. There is no way you could have done the safety module in that amount of time."
Then, some of them even have questions that you have to answer. You read it and do the
quiz at the end, and it calculates that. Then, it sends E-mails back to, in this case, it will go
back to the Captains and from the Captains, it goes back to the Battalion Captains (BCs) if
they have not done it in a certain amount of time, and eventually back to the Training
Captain saying, "You need to get this training module done. You are overdue." So it kind of
tracks it all for us.
Councilmember Yukimura: So, it really avoids a lot of issues that come from
having to gather people at a certain place at a certain time?
Chief Westerman: That is the biggest one, and sometimes, it is a
little difficulty that if someone else is doing the training for you, they kind of have a
copyright on their training. Some will let us videotape that training so we could do a live
training and we could videotape it, and then make that available to everybody else. But
some of them will not sign off on letting us record it because they want to get paid for their
students, but again, that is why the sharing with the modules with all of the Fire
Departments is very beneficial to us.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 6
Councilmember Yukimura: So you are sharing it with the Fire stations or
Fire Departments?
Chief Westerman: Well, this is all just for the Fire Department, but
all of the different training modules that are available, Honolulu may have purchased some
of them or Honolulu made them themselves, and we review them and say, "Oh, that works
for us." So we can have that.
Councilmember Yukimura: Excellent.
Chief Westerman: It is the same with Maui.
Councilmember Yukimura: You mentioned the air pads, I did not quite
understand how you are getting savings and you are avoiding the budget basically because
you are doing it through some other route.
Chief Westerman: Yes. We are getting ready to start the program
where the Water Safety Officers in the morning as soon they show up to the tower, they are
going to open up their air pad and put that "I am here." Then, they can put in the wave
conditions, the heights, the direction, the time, the intervals, all of that and the conditions
at that tower. It is all logged automatically. It goes into a database in the cloud database.
If they have an incident during the day, it automatically records. They have a log that they
keep manually, so now, it will be every hour they go in and say, "There are thirty-five (35)
people on the beach," they did first aid, and they marked they did first said. Heaven forbid
they have a drowning or rescue, but it would even get to the point where they can pinpoint
on it on a map so that we will end up with mapped data of where everything happened.
The problem was initially, it looked like the unit that we had to have to do all of that is like
your laptop computer, something like this. It is not very ruggedized. Even if I take it out of
the case and I put it on ruggedized case, it has some issues with it. The biggest issue is it is
costly. Apple has actually decided that their product is too expensive, and they are
lowering the prices significantly on their Air Pads. So it is just a small laptop is what it is.
This is $3,500 and then if something happens to it, it is a $3,500 replacement. If I buy a
$549 Air Pad, I can buy six (6) of these for the price of one (1). We are going buy ruggedized
cases. They all have a cell Wi-Fi volt connection inside of them. As you will see, we had a
little bit of increase in our communications, and that was to cover that. It is not going to
cover all of it, so we are going to make sure that we reduce the amount of one that we need.
Councilmember Yukimura: Can you share that information with Parks
because yesterday, we were talking about how to equip the Park Rangers, and that might
be a solution for them, too? Thank you.
Chief Westerman: We can.
Councilmember Yukimura: I have questions on the narrative.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Do you have it broken up by Division?
Councilmember Yukimura: No, I have it by the way it was presented in the
narrative.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 7
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: We will go through those questions now if you
want. Does anyone else have questions on this presentation?
Council Chair Rapozo: No.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Council Chair Rapozo.
Council Chair Rapozo: It is just when we get to the Divisions in the
budget.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Okay. Go ahead, Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Congratulations on your CERT training. I mean,
you have just applied such a focus and support for them. I see you have one hundred
thirty-four (134) graduates and refresher courses as well. So it is really good to know the
community aspect because we have them as partners, right, during time of emergency that
they are being prepared and well-coordinated. In your successes and achievements, you
talk about the Firefighters and Ocean Safety Officers (DSOs) and how they have helped
with so many events, and that indeed, is great support. I just wondered how much
overtime comes out of those volunteer efforts.
Chief Westerman: Those volunteer efforts, there is hardly any
overtime, if at all, in those. That is mostly during the day setting up tables and chairs. An
example is Relay for Life that is coming up. So Hanapepe station is always out there
helping us put those tents up in the morning and then taking them down the next morning.
It is on-duty crews. The Valentine's Day Dance is the on-duty crews. Most of those
community things, if not all of it, is not on overtime.
Councilmember Yukimura: Excellent. Thank you. You say that you
anticipate a big workforce retirement at the end of this year. My question is, how are you
preparing for that or does it look like you will have many vacancies because I believe that
the Fire Department compared to the Police Department is lucky to have a long waiting
list?
Chief Westerman: Yes. We have lost six (6) already and we are
starting a recruit class in May of those six (6). By December of 2017, we anticipate
twelve (12) to fourteen (14) more senior Firefighters retiring, including a couple of Battalion
Chiefs. What we did, working with Human Resources a couple of months ago, as we get our
normal recruit list and they come in for interviews, in this particular case, knowing that we
are going to have such a mass exodus, we asked them for the entire list. We normally do
not do that. So we interviewed the entire list of people. It took us a couple of days.
Councilmember Yukimura: Wow.
Chief Westerman: So we have one (1) list that is already done, those
folks have already been selected for hire, and we will talk about that in the positions. Then,
we have the next group people sitting on the list and so starting the class we can start it
pretty quickly because it takes...we have to wait until they retire, and then it takes
probably sixty (60) days; acceptance, urine tests, background checks, and all of that has to
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 8
happen. So we are trying to get as far ahead as we can, and HR has been very great. We
have never done it this way before.
Councilmember Yukimura: Excellent, good planning.
Council Chair Rapozo: I have a follow-up on that, just really quick.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, sure.
Council Chair Rapozo: You say you are going to have a recruit in May?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: This year?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: And then the retirements will be in December?
Chief Westerman: Right.
Council Chair Rapozo: And you expect another class next year?
Chief Westerman: Next year in February.
Council Chair Rapozo: Just one (1) next year?
Chief Westerman: Just one (1).
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. I noticed in the budget, and we will get to
that later...
Chief Westerman: Yes, that is the reason that has increased.
Council Chair Rapozo: But in the budget, you are showing that you are
having two (2) recruit classes.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: But you are only have one (1)?
Chief Westerman: One (1) in this year, and yes. Sorry about that.
Council Chair Rapozo: So for the next fiscal year, you are only dealing
with one (1)?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: But your budget reflects two (2) on the overtime?
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 9
Chief Westerman: Right. Sorry. I apologize. It is because the one
that is starting in May and then there is one (1) starting this fiscal year.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Thank you.
Chief Westerman: Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you. On page 3 of for your narrative, I was
looking at the graph of total calls by year and percentage of increase. Thank you for
providing this. One of the reasons for looking at it is to see what the trends are. They just
raised questions about the causes of these calls. Here, you have shown that for Fiscal Year
2016, seventy-three percent (73%) of the calls were for medical, one percent (1%) or sixty
(60) rescue calls required helicopters, and one hundred five (105) rescues were for Ocean
Safety. But the Ocean Safety rescues are not included in the total calls?
Chief Westerman: No.
Councilmember Yukimura: That is because it is a different group that
responds, basically?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: You are just talking about...
Chief Westerman: Well, I take that back. Some of them may
because it might have started just strictly as an Ocean Safety call, and then Fire responded,
or it could have been off-shift and Fire responded only and there was no Ocean Safety.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
Chief Westerman: But a majority of that is Ocean Safety, yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: So you do not include any of the Ocean Safety
calls that have the Firefighters come out?
Chief Westerman: Yes, we do. Those are included.
Councilmember Yukimura: That is included?
Chief Westerman: Yes, that is in there.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. When I look at the basic curve, it looks
like it might correlate with population and economy. Like there is a big dip in 2008 and
2010 when we had the big crash, well, there were fewer tourists then because that was a
real lack of that. As we lobby for the Transient Accommodations Tax (TAT), this data can
be helpful.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 10
Councilmember Yukimura: So then the fire alarm responses on the next
page, you indicate there were two hundred fifty (250) fire alarm responses with $1,100,000
fire loss. Of these responses, can you tell how many were major loss fires, how many were
false alarms, how many were minor, and how many were preventable?
Chief Westerman: All of the ones that are included in here are all
major fires that had to be investigated. I believe last year was thirteen (13). Yes. So the
fire loss is for thirteen (13) fires, not for the two hundred fifty-eight (258) alarms.
Councilmember Yukimura: So thirteen (13) out of two hundred
fifty-eight (258) were major?
Chief Westerman: Major fire loss, yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: That is helpful. How many were false alarms?
Chief Westerman: I do not have that data, but I can get that.
Councilmember Yukimura: But some are sometimes?
Chief Westerman: Pardon?
Councilmember Yukimura: But some are?
Chief Westerman: Some are, yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Do you do any analysis how many were
preventable? That is a little harder, but...
Chief Westerman: The false alarms?
Councilmember Yukimura: No, the total calls.
Chief Westerman: No, we do not analyze that.
Councilmember Yukimura: We you pour so much money into fire prevention,
I just wondered how we are making the correlation. Are our efforts for fire prevention
working or not? I mean, I think thirteen (13) major fires is small, so you could say that is
good.
Mr. Vaughan: For the record, Kilipaki Vaughan. I think our
efforts from prevention have been tremendous. You can see the total call volume rising, but
the fires actually stay about the same. So it means that there are more fire calls, but we
are actually doing a better job in the community of educating people. This morning, our
Sparky Fire Safety trailer is at Kilauea and continuing their "learn not to burn" education.
Every day is education as far as fire prevention. I believe we made a huge dent in it. You
can see, again as you pointed out, that the medical calls are rising and that just comes from
an aging baby-boomer population. We are kind of reaching the younger people, and the Fall
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 11
Prevention also captures some of the kupuna engagement so we are educating them along
the way. But I humbly believe Fire has done a pretty good job on the fire prevention side.
Councilmember Yukimura: I think so too. I have always pointed out that the
"stop, drop, roll" is imbedded in my daughter's head and I think in a lot of kids. It is such
an easy concept and a life-saving concept. So prevention is always the focus, I believe, is
the most cost-effective and yet, we are trying to do performance-based budgeting and using
actual indicators and data rather than just our kind of intuitive sense about what is
happening. That is why I asked. I am going to go on, okay. So you talk on page 5 about
your...
Council Chair Rapozo: Is that the fire alarm?
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: We will take a quick recess.
There being no objections, the Committee recessed at 9:32 a.m.
The Committee reconvened at 9:34 a.m., and proceeded as follows:
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Quick technical difficulty. Councilmember
Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: On page 5 of your narrative, you are talking
about the First Responder and CPR training provided in-house and then also the Hands-
Only CPR going to train elementary, high school, and middle school kids, which is excellent.
I mean, that is very much life-saving. So I just wondered if we have done in-house to the
County, whether County workers are learning it. I remember once, we had a death, I think,
Driver's Licenses or something like that. So if someone had known CPR, it might have
made I have difference.
Chief Westerman: We did offer one (1) class last year, and we had
twenty-one (21) County members attend.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
Chief Westerman: We get requests all of the time from different
Divisions to do that.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. So will you do it for Council Services?
Chief Westerman: Sure, absolutely.
Councilmember Yukimura: If you can give us an announcement where it is
happening so we can learn, too?
Chief Westerman: Will do.
Mr. Vaughan: We will do it right here.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 12
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, maybe you should do it in front of the
television. It might be a way for everybody to learn.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you. On page 15, Operating Budget
Discussion, you speak about the savings on $352,000 from overtime and rank-for-rank by
shorting some lines. I just wanted to understand more clearly, how it is you accomplished
that.
Chief Westerman: What we do, like I said, we start with a full
budget line item and then we say, and for rank-for-rank in particular, not everybody takes
their full rank-for-rank, so we can cut off of that. So it is mandated that we have it, but we
can still cut some of that, and it is actually savings coming back from the Firefighters by
not taking the rank-for-rank.
Councilmember Chock: So it is a choice not to?
Chief Westerman: It is a choice not to, yes.
Councilmember Chock: So Firefighters on the line are choosing not to
take rank-for-rank?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Chock: Is it a request from the Administration to
consider not taking rank-for-rank?
Chief Westerman: Without giving you an individual's name...no, no.
Without giving individual's names, we have an individual that has several kids in college
and they are on Pell grants. The increased salary that he would make disqualifies him for
some of the Pell grants. So it is a choice. We have several that have part-time jobs that are
significant. They run their own companies, and so they do not want to come back to work.
So it is a choice for them not to come back to work because that day that they are off, they
are working or those four (4) days they are off, they are working doing something else. So it
is not really beneficial to them. It is simply just a choice. By the contract, every single
Firefighter is offered. I do not even have to say, "Take the rank-for-rank." They are
already told, "Everything that is available, you take it" because it does a couple things for
us. One, if we have to have overtime that day, we can eat up rank-for-rank time by doing
that and hopefully by the end of the day, there is no extra overtime that is needed because
we used rank-for-rank. Then, again as I said, it is their choice whether they want to do the
rank-for-rank or not.
Councilmember Chock: So this voluntary, I guess, declining of the
rank-for-rank is a projection of$352,000 that you have moving forward, is that correct?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 13
Councilmember Yukimura: I have a follow-up.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: How does a Firefighter choose not to take
rank-for-rank?
Chief Westerman: It is more of a Firefighter choosing to take
rank-for-rank.
Councilmember Yukimura: Right, and I am asking how is that registered.
Chief Westerman: Well...
Councilmember Yukimura: Maybe I just do not understand rank-for-rank.
So there is a Captain who cannot be at work for whatever reason and the rank-for-rank
says you have to have another Captain in place, so who makes the choice which Captain
goes into the rank-for-rank?
Chief Westerman: That is why we leave the program up to the
Firefighters. So if you and I, and the Deputy or the three (3) Captains are in that station,
you say, "I am going to take vacation." You tell us and one (1) of us says, "If I am on my
four (4) days off, I can take it without a problem." But if we are in-between days, he might
have to take the front twelve (12) hours and I take the back twelve (12) hours. As soon as
you have that made, you let your BC know with an E-mail and other individual's BC that I
am off, you approved my vacation, and here is the rank-for-rank. So they manage all of
that. They send an E-mail to the BC, or they might send a BC an E-mail saying, "Can I
have vacation," and the BC says, "I do not have enough people." So then he has to go and
find someone to work his rank-for-rank for him. It is really managed by them. Then, if
there is nobody to work, then the BCs just temporary assignment (TA) Apparatus Operator
and then we TA a Firefighter and Apparatus Operator. If the need-be, we overtime a
Firefighter.
Councilmember Yukimura: And the lower ranks get on the job training?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Mr. Vaughan: And maybe some of the explanation is that in
rank-for-rank, there is a capped amount. It is almost like divided into semesters. This part
of the year, you can only work this many. This part of the year, you with work this many.
The other analogy is that if there are three (3) Captain positions at one (1) station, but if
there is a vacancy, now that one (1) vacant position cannot work rank-for-rank. So there
are savings that come from that as well. You two (2) folks could work for my vacant
position, but this vacant position cannot work for any of your two (2). So there is savings in
that as well.
Chief Westerman: As a TA day, a double TA day, and then maybe
overtime, maybe not. If staffing is at a certain level, the BCs will say, "I am not bringing in
Firefighters and three (3) is enough today." We have that and you saw our statistics about
how we try to stay at the ninety percent (90%) staff.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 14
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. It sounds like sort of a little market where
people kind of bid on it.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Council Chair Rapozo.
Council Chair Rapozo: Maybe I do not understand it. I know we ask
this question every budget year and it seems to make sense, but then I get confused again.
So the rank-for-rank is only for Captains?
Chief Westerman: No, any "ranked Firefighter," which are the
Firefighter IIs, Firefighter IIs, Fire Captains, and the Battalion Chiefs.
Council Chair Rapozo: You have Fire Station "A" and you have a
Captain that wants to take off. He can get another Captain? It has to be a Captain?
Chief Westerman: It has to be a Captain.
Council Chair Rapozo: It cannot be anybody lower than a Captain?
Chief Westerman: No.
Council Chair Rapozo: And if he cannot find a Captain, then what
happens?
Chief Westerman: Well, two (2) things. One, if the BC has approved
his vacation, then the BC will TA the Firefighter III that is in the station and TA the
Firefighter to the Firefighter III position.
Council Chair Rapozo: Would the BC not make sure that there are
available men before he grants the vacation? In other words, if you applying, and I am not
talking about annual vacation, if you want to take off Friday for whatever and you want to
take off, you put your request, and the BC is going to look at, do we have the manpower?
"No, I cannot find anybody." Would it not make sense to decline it?
Chief Westerman: Well, we do decline people and say, "You cannot
take vacation because there is not enough staffing." But then they have the option of
saying, "I have a rank-for-rank that will work for me."
Council Chair Rapozo: Right, but I am saying if he does not. Basically, I
put in my request for time off, vacation, or whatever it is. You are saying it is the
Firefighter's responsibility to go find somebody to work for him or her?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: I go out and say, "Hey, can you work for my
Friday?" "No, I cannot." Now, when I put in my vacation request and the BC says there is
no availability.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 15
Council Chair Rapozo: That should be declined.
Chief Westerman: It is declined.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay, but then you said that if they cannot find a
Captain, then they TA everybody up.
Chief Westerman: No. Okay. If I decline your vacation, what are
you going to do if you still want to play golf with those folks or you still want to see your son
do his May Day celebration? You call in sick. You call in sick and then I TA the Firefighter
III. It happens every day in every department, right?
Council Chair Rapozo: Well Chief, if that is the mentality, then yes, we
are just going to keep granting and paying. I do not want to get into an argument about
this. I guess for me, it is a management issue that, "Hey, if you cannot find the coverage,
and it is not your annual vacation, then sorry. If you want to call in sick, call in sick and if
I find out that you called sick when you were not sick, then we will take care of that."
Chief Westerman: I understand, but the contract says I have to give
them two hundred eighty-eight (288) hours.
Council Chair Rapozo: Right.
Chief Westerman: So if I deny, deny, deny, deny, and they come to
the mid-year and they did not get half of their rank-for-rank, what are they going to do?
They are going to file a grievance and want to get paid for all of the rank-for-rank that they
did not get because the rank-for-rank...
Council Chair Rapozo: Chief, I am not talking rank-for-rank. The
rank-for-rank person is not working. It is not a rank-for-rank issue anymore. He cannot
find a rank-for-rank person, so it is not rank-for-rank. He is going to get mad and file a
grievance. He is going to get mad at his fellow Captain who does not want to work. I am
trying to understand this because now I can see like what Councilmember Yukimura said.
It is kind of like real simple. We can really take advantage of the system. I understand
what the Union does, but if he or she cannot find a rank-for-rank person, then
rank-for-rank is pau. We are not talking rank-for-rank anymore. Now we are just talking
about management of the station and saying, "Hey, sorry, pal. We cannot. We do not have
manpower."
Chief Westerman: We do, and sometimes they just do not do it.
They stay on the job.
Council Chair Rapozo: And if they call sick, and obviously if they call in
sick, they are not sick.
Chief Westerman: When they call in sick, it is usually not a
rank-for-rank. It is so late and limited that we end up just TA. People call in sick routinely
for sickness, but...
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 16
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, and that is legitimate. But if the person is
asking for time off and he cannot get off because of manpower shortage and then he calls in
sick, I think even the Union contract would allow for an investigation or whatever it is. I
am not trying to be hard, I am just saying that we have to look at ways to restrict and this
really allows for a lot of overtime, not rank-for-rank. I am not talking about rank-for-rank.
Rank-for-rank is one thing, but I am just talking about the management of that station and
same goes for any Department. If we are just allowing people to take off and we are going
to cover that backlog with overtime, we will never get a handle on the overtime. Police
included. As I look at the overtime reports that we just got, there is a significant amount of
overtime. I can see the rank-for-rank, and I would think it is not much of a difficulty to find
somebody to work rank-for-rank because everybody has the days that they have got to use
because I understand they lose it, right? If they do not use it, whatever the contract gives
them in rank-for-rank, they lose use it or lose it, right?
Chief Westerman: They will not lose it, I guarantee you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, that is my point. I do not think you will find
too many situations that the person is not going to want to take rank-for-rank.
Chief Westerman: Like I said, we have Firefighters that do not do
rank-for-rank, period, some that do not use their entire time. So that is why we made the
program so that they select every time that they want to work rank-for-rank because if we
start denying rank-for-rank working, then they can come back and say, "You denied me my
rank-for-rank."
Council Chair Rapozo: Again, I was not talking about that. If I tell
Councilmember Chock to work for me, he works for me, and then the BC says, "No," that is
another story.
Chief Westerman: Right.
Council Chair Rapozo: But if I ask Councilmember Chock to work for
me, he said, "I cannot," and now I do not have a Captain to work for me, unfortunately, they
have to work.
Chief Westerman: Right, and they do.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Brun and then Councilmember
Yukimura.
Councilmember Brun: I have a follow-up question on his because I do
not think it was answered. If somebody requests vacation, they are denied, and then they
call in sick, are we tracking that because we know he is not sick? We know he had
something. Are we doing something about it?
Chief Westerman: No.
Councilmember Brun: Thank you.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 17
Chief Westerman: I think it is few and far in between. Because of
the rank-for-rank program, we have very little opportunity to deny. Does that make sense?
Where in past, we did. If you look at our sick leave statistics, I can tell you that they have
actually gone down. There are a couple things to think about when you talk about budgets
and liabilities. If we do rank-for-rank, we do save overtime because if we do not do
rank-for-rank and we TA, we bring in a Firefighter on overtime. So we have increased our
overtime costs and we have increased two (2) TA times. So it does not cover a whole
rank-for-rank as you add the dollars up, but if you work the rank-for-rank, then it save
two (2) TAs and it saves overtime. So it is a savings in the program, and that is kind of why
when we first did this, we started reducing our overtime dollars because rank-for-rank
dollars will start paying forever for that. Does that make sense? Okay. Everything we let
accumulate is a liability to the County; vacation, sick leave, and compensation time. All of
that is a liability to the County. If our employees do not use it, it is an increased liability to
the County because we just talked about payout for sick leave and vacations. It is huge
costs for me. Next year at the end of 2017, I am looking at about $500,000 in vacation
payouts because you are talking about the senior folks at the end of their career, and
having to pay that out at the end of the year. So if we can get them to use their sick leave
and vacation while they are on the job, it saves us more money in the end. Does that make
sense?
Councilmember Yukimura: Does sick leave accumulate?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
Council Chair Rapozo: But it does not cost. It just adds to your time of
service. You do not pay out sick leave. You can pay out vacation. You do not pay out sick
leave. If a person who retires with twenty-five (25) years of service, he has two (2) years of
sick leave, he then gets that extra two (2) years in time of service, but we do not pay out
sick leave.
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, but through the extra time, you do pay
more.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: The retirement system pays more.
Chief Westerman: Right, the retirement system is going to pay
more.
Councilmember Yukimura: But we are paying into the retirement system.
Council Chair Rapozo: We pay whatever the person gets...I am just
talking about direct costs. The Chief is saying the vacation is a direct cost, the person is
going to cash in his time and we have to pay it, but we do not pay for the sick leave. It just
adds to his time of service.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 18
Chief Westerman: Right.
Councilmember Yukimura: I have a question.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Chief, is not rank-for-rank a form of overtime?
Chief Westerman: I guess if you are working on a day off, you can
classify it overtime yes, but it is collective bargaining. It is not a choice. Does that make
sense?
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. I mean basically, rank-for-rank took away
the choice or the discretion of management for saying who is going to be the replacement
and who is going to get the overtime if there is overtime involved. If someone has
completed their quota for the week and they take over the rank-for-rank, then it is overtime
for them. Is it not?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: It would be interesting to know how much
rank-for-rank time is overtime because you could give it to your Captain friend who is due
for overtime. That is where the discretion of the management was taken away. They could
have given it to someone who has not reached overtime quota and therefore, cost the
County less money. But now, rank-for-rank is an entitlement. You have to have so many
hours of rank-for-rank, right? So I mean basically, it is mandatory overtime, if you will.
No?
Chief Westerman: Yes. I understand what you are saying, but I...
Councilmember Yukimura: Because it is saying every...you said who
qualifies for rank-for-rank?
Chief Westerman: All ranked Firefighters.
Councilmember Yukimura: All ranked Firefighters are entitled to certain
amounts of rank-for-rank, and if they do not get it and they want it, then what happens?
We are not talking about the ones who do not want it. If they do not get it, then what
happens?
Chief Westerman: Well, they could come back and say, "You denied
me the opportunity to earn that income," and then file a grievance saying that they want
that money.
Councilmember Yukimura: Even if they were not offered it from their fellow
Captain or fellow coworker?
Chief Westerman: Well, that is why my policy is everybody is
entitled to every rank-for-rank that is available so there is no opportunity for them to say if
they did not get their full complement that is on them.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 19
Councilmember Yukimura: But then they are entitled to a certain amount
every six (6) months?
Chief Westerman: Yes, we cut it in half. Every six (6) months.
Different Counties are different. Some of them do it every four (4) months and some of
them do it on the whole year.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: I have a question. Rank-for-rank, what is the
pay rate for that? Is it time and a half?
Chief Westerman: Time and a half.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: So it is the same as overtime?
Chief Westerman: Yes, it is the same as overtime.
Councilmember Yukimura: Excuse me, may I?
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: So whenever it is a rank-for-rank position, then
they are entitled to time and a half?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: So it is systemized overtime that is beyond the
discretion of the management.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you.
Chief Westerman: That is a good way to put it. Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Any further questions on rank-for-rank? Do you
have any more questions on the presentation, Councilmember Yukimura?
Councilmember Yukimura: No.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: If not...
Councilmember Yukimura: Are we going to go page by page?
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 20
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: The presentation is out. We are going to start
with Administration. Do we have any questions for the Administration on the
Administration budget? Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: I noticed that your telephone from 2016 to 2018
budget is like a twenty-four percent (24%) increase, unless my math is wrong, which could
be the case. It is like a $6,000 increase, over $22,000. Wait, excuse me, that is
electricity...no, it is telephone. I just wondered how that happened or what is the
explanation is.
Chief Westerman: For the entire Administration?
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. I am not sure what the entire
Administration covers. It is in your Administration budget. The first page, the summary.
Council Chair Rapozo: Which page is that?
Councilmember Yukimura: The first page, the summary.
Chief Westerman: So you are wondering why the increase in
2016-2018?
Councilmember Yukimura: Oh, I see you have the text.
Chief Westerman: $118,000 of that is retirement contribution.
Councilmember Yukimura: No, I see...
Mr. Vaughan: No, the telephone.
Chief Westerman: Oh, the Telephone. 10-03.
Council Chair Rapozo: Page 102.
Chief Westerman: The telephone.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Page 137 has the details.
Councilmember Yukimura: So it was the Wi-Fi?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Is that an addition?
Chief Westerman: Yes. That is for the Ocean Safety Air Pads.
Councilmember Yukimura: Interesting. That is what Parks was talking
about yesterday...
Chief Westerman: Right.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 21
Councilmember Yukimura: ...needing Wi-Fi at all of the parks in order to
provide iPad or communications capacity.
Chief Westerman: Well, if they would put Wi-Fi in every park, I
could save money by taking the Verizon/AT&T module out of our iPads. That would be
some savings for us in the future. Anyplace that there is Wi-Fi at all of the parks, that
would help us.
Councilmember Yukimura: The different silos need to get together where you
overlap in services, right, because the beach parks are where our OSB people are.
Chief Westerman: Right.
Councilmember Yukimura: And that is also a park serviced by our Rangers.
Chief Westerman: Right.
Councilmember Yukimura: I think. I do not know if Kealia Beach is.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: So sharing that Wi-Fi capacity, if that is what is
needed, would be good.
Chief Westerman: Yes, it would be. I was not aware that they were
planning to do anything like that until I listened to Lenny yesterday. We would be more
than happy to work with them to get one (1) system going.
Councilmember Yukimura: Maybe that is where our Budget Team can look
at where the overlaps might be for Wi-Fi service because the bus is also looking to have Wi-
Fi at the bus stops.
Chief Westerman: Right.
Councilmember Chock: Put it in their budget.
Councilmember Yukimura: What?
Chief Westerman: Without getting too much into the technology, it
could be tough because we are not limited to the park itself. As they go down the beach, the
Wi-Fi signal would deteriorate and then they would lose their ability.
Councilmember Yukimura: There may be a distinction where you have to
have a separate Wi-Fi service. I do not know, but it is worth looking into. It is like our
phone system where we have channels...
Chief Westerman: Yes.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 22
Councilmember Yukimura: ...for emergency response and certain people can
get on that wave or whatever it is.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: I guess it is distinct from public access.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: To Wi-Fi, which is what...well, Transportation
would have both purposes. They would have internal needs as well as public Wi-Fi.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Council Chair Rapozo.
Council Chair Rapozo: I do not know if you go down to the parking lot
and try to use the Wi-Fi from this building. There is none. It is not that simple that we are
going put a Wi-Fi system at Lydgate Beach Park and the lifeguards are going to get service
all way down the beach. That is just not realistic. You need towers and relay stations. It is
not that simple. Wi-Fi does not come from the thin air. It has to come from a source. You
cannot get around this, especially public safety. You cannot say, "Oops, signal lost." You
cannot. I think centrally located in the park, even the Wi-Fi, you can get better systems
that have a wider range, but they all cost money. There is a maintenance cost to that as
well. Are these all brand new phones? Do you have phones now?
Chief Westerman: We have phones now. These are for inside
(inaudible). It has a broadband in it. It is for the individual units.
Council Chair Rapozo: I guess because the way the text is reading, it
says, "Existing phones for F1, F2, 3 BC's, R3...I have no clue what all of these things are.
There is a total of nineteen (19) but you say you have existing phones?
Chief Westerman: That is everything. That has been there.
Council Chair Rapozo: So that cost is to maintain these phones?
Chief Westerman: Maintain the current ones that we have, yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: And then Wi-Fi would be included on the Ocean
Safety people?
Chief Westerman: Right.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Is that for your Air Pads?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Got it. Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 23
Councilmember Yukimura: Council Chair Rapozo, you were talking about
something that, because cell phones do...I mean, they have better coverage?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: And you were talking about tying it in?
Council Chair Rapozo: No. All I was suggesting rather than build Wi-Fi
stations all over this island, unless you want to do it as an amenity, I am talking about the
parks. If they want to do it as an amenity for the campers, that is a different purpose, but
for practical use and for safety and our employees, everybody's cell phone has the data. You
have to have the data account and that costs money, too, but now with the unlimited plans,
I think you cannot get away from that. But you need something that works all the time.
That is my only concern with the parks. The Wi-Fi stations for campers, like I said, that is
a luxury. But when we are talking about our employees and their safety, you have to have
that data connection so that they can communicate with who they need to without having
to rely on a Wi-Fi signal that may not be there. That is all I was saying yesterday.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: But those iPads are not going to be used for
communication necessarily. I mean, you have cell phones, right, for emergency response?
Chief Westerman: They have radios.
Councilmember Yukimura: The iPads are more for reporting and recording.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Are there any other questions?
Chief Westerman: And it could be communications. They could text
with the phone.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, but you do have alternatives.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: I have a question. Can you justify the need and
expectations for a new Assistant Fire Chief?
Chief Westerman: Yes. As reported in previous years, since 2000
our Firefighter account has gone from 128 to 207. We have added an additional Fire
station. So if you look at the span of control and the safety required to manage the
Operations Bureau within the Department, we need someone to help manage that. An
average span of control for a normal span of control is five (5) to seven (7) people that you
are supervising. A high risk area is maybe three (3) to five (5). So our Battalion Chiefs are
managing eight (8) different fire stations, nine (9) different fire crews, plus they are doing
tons of additional duties that equates to some of their overtime. This really becomes a
safety factor when the BCs are outdoing something else instead of standing with his radio
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 24
monitoring the crew and responding with the crews. All of a sudden, something is going to
happen and he is not going to be available to immediately dispatch additional resources and
help the Captains make decisions that are life-saving. So the challenge for us is how do we
get that management layer in there to help take some of the workload off the Battalion
Chiefs, put it in a position to help manage that, supervise those Battalion Chiefs, and then
perform the services that we need within the Bureau? I can do it now or we can talk about
overtime. Some of the reasons that we have overtime is simply because we do not have the
people we need to manage programs, so we do that on overtime. An example is we have a
particular Firefighter III that has about four hundred forty-six (446) hours of overtime. If
you do not want me to pay him overtime, I need an IT Specialist, I need a
Multi-Disciplinary Team (MDT) Specialist, and I need a Geographic Information
Systems (GIS) Specialist. This is all of the additional work that he does besides his job
every day. They are working. They are not just taking overtime hours. They are
performing functions for the Department. We have grown, our responses have grown, our
personnel has grown, and so it takes a different layer or an additional layer here in
Assistant Chief position to help manage that. A lot of people attend meetings for me on
overtime because I simply run out of time in the day even with the Deputy, so we assign
them to attend the meeting or whatever meeting that needs to attend so they can then
bring the information back. So again, the Assistant Chief (AC) is really more critical in
helping the Bureau manage safely because it has gotten so big. We are actually pretty close
to asking for a second Battalion Chief so that we can break that up because that workload
on the Battalion Chiefs is huge. You noticed he was not here this morning. We would love
to have had him here this morning, but he has work that he has to do in order to get the
shifts working through the day and instead, the Assistant Chief could have been here and
managing the budget with us then going back and helping manage the budget within each
of the three (3) Bureaus. One of the things, too, about when you have three (3) folks that
are not on every day, they are off, on, off, on, and then off four (4) is the continuity and flow
of information that they constantly have to work with. Where if you have somebody that is
over them and able to help manage them, that information comes to a peak where it can
then be deciphered and managed and then what has to go up to the Administration and
what he can manage within the Bureau. It is a long time coming and I really feel we have
to have this position.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Chief, so you said there are eight (8) fire
stations...oh, no, that this Assistant Fire Chief would oversee?
Chief Westerman: No. The Battalion Chiefs on a daily basis,
oversees eight (8) fire stations with nine (9) different crews because you have the Rescue
Crew as an addition, and at one (1) station has two (2).
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. You mentioned additional duties. Can
you help me understand what those additional duties are?
Chief Westerman: Every request from the community that comes in
and wants to have the fire engine company attend their event, or support Pu'uwai Canoe
Club, or the KaMheo School, or any of those. That is one of the things that the Battalion
Chief is trying to manage with his crews, worrying about what is going to happen for the
day. That is an additional duty that takes a lot of time and effort, where if an AC was in
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 25
there, that request could go to the AC and he can help the BC manage that because the BC
again, still has to manage for fire and emergency response all day long. One (1) of our
Battalion Chiefs is on the Local Emergency Planning Committee (LEPC).
Councilmember Yukimura: What is the LEPC?
Chief Westerman: What does the acronym stand for?
Mr. Vaughan: Local something...
Chief Westerman: Emergency Planning Committee.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
Chief Westerman: That is that one that is the Tier 1, Tier 2 moneys
that come in for people with hazardous materials. So he is assigned to that Committee, he
is required to travel to Honolulu about every quarter, and then he helps manage those
resources and the money that they give us so that we make sure we spend it appropriately.
Most of it is for the hazardous materials, our phones, and those kind of things. Currently,
that same Battalion Chief is responsible for the Training Bureau where the AC could help
alleviate some of the work that he does.
Councilmember Yukimura: You have training...
Chief Westerman: Captain.
Councilmember Yukimura: Captain?
Chief Westerman: Yes, and he reports to a BC and then hopefully
reports to an AC.
Councilmember Yukimura: Why would the Training Captain not just report
to you and your Deputy?
Chief Westerman: Well, they do, and so do the BCs, the Prevention
Bureau, and every other committee. That is why I am saying in the time of day, I just do
not have the time of day to respond to everybody. Even with the Deputy, we need a layer in
there to help support all of those operations safely and to separate the ones that do not
really need to come to me and go to somewhere else for a management decision.
Councilmember Yukimura: That is your Deputy doing that, right?
Chief Westerman: Part of the work is done by the Deputy, yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: I mean, like those requests from the community,
excuse me and please forgive me. I do not understand why it cannot be done at a station
level or by a coordinator in your Office that does not have to be a high level Chief.
Chief Westerman: If I had somebody, I would assign it to them.
Everybody is busy, that is what I am kind of trying to say here. Everybody is busy doing
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 26
additional work and most of the requests come to me in an E-mail. I literally just push it
out, I see what day it is, I push it out to that BC, and I say, "Take care of it and manage it."
That is kind of how those things are handled. I would say at least every other day, every
three (3) days issues get a request for support in the community some way or another, and
then it goes to the BC because the BC is the one that has to say, "Oh, well, I have Station 1
already out doing something in the community. Now somebody in Station 8 wants them to
do something, but Station 8 is relocated to Station 1." So that decision has to be made at a
management level, not at a station level.
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, sometimes we just have to say, "No," right?
Chief Westerman: And we do.
Councilmember Yukimura: You said there is a Firefighter III with four
hundred sixty (460) hours of overtime. I did not quite get how that position has to do with
what we are talking about.
Chief Westerman: We are talking about overtime. You want to talk
about total overtime hours and the fact that I do not have an IT Specialist that works for
Fire. We had an MDT person who was hired and then he ended up in Police and he does
only Police now. I have just as many MDTs and just as much work that has to be done in
IT. So we work closely with IT, and we have a gentleman that has the capacity to support
IT, doing the work for us. IT is overworked, absolutely overworked. I am here to say, "Get
them four (4) or five (5) more people, and then I can do a lot less overtime because my
specialist is the one that does my MDTs." He manages my software, he manages repairs,
and maintenance....
Councilmember Yukimura: Who does that?
Chief Westerman: I am not going to tell you his name.
Councilmember Yukimura: I am not talking about the person, what position?
Chief Westerman: Look up his position. We will give you the
position.
Mr. Vaughan: It is a Firefighter III.
Chief Westerman: Firefighter III, yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: So an Assistant Chief would do that rather than
an IT person?
Chief Westerman: No. The Assistant Chief would not do that, but
there is some work that the Assistant Chief could do that I could take away from him, like
managing the program. That could be managed by the Assistant Chief and then he only
does the technical work that needs to be done.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 27
Councilmember Yukimura: So you did look at perhaps to meet that need an
IT person at a lower salary, but you decided that no, you would rather have an Assistant
Fire Chief, and that is who is going to do the work?
Chief Westerman: One has nothing to do with the other.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay, but I thought you mentioned that in terms
of workload.
Chief Westerman: He could do a little bit of work, but an Assistant
Chief would be a manager. He is not there hired to go out and pull MDTs out of a vehicle
and put them in another vehicle.
Councilmember Yukimura: Right.
Chief Westerman: Right. That would be an irresponsible use of his
time.
Chief Westerman: Yes, that is why maybe you need an IT person.
Mr. Vaughan: I think what the Chief is trying to say is that the
workload is great. There is a big workload. There are a lot of initiatives that Council and
the community demands of us. The community demands a greater level of service and we
are an essential public service. I believe that the span of control, we are already beyond the
span of control, three (3) to seven (7) optimal, five (5), and now we are beyond that. To have
a daily supervision, a daily management of the Fire line operations that affect the
community on the frontline is vitally important to the operations of this Department. If
Council says it is not that important and that takes a different level of care or management,
I am not so sure if that is the correct approach. But at the same time, I believe that the
community is coming forth, the call volume comes up, and there are more rescues. Last
year, we came asking for two (2) AC positions and we deferred. We had to work with less,
but you want us to be more productive with less and it is really hard to be more productive
with less and not have positions.
Councilmember Yukimura: We want to support you, and so we are trying to
understand the workload. I mean, the call volume has gone down slightly, right, this year
over last year. When you say the community is asking for a greater level of service, what
are we not doing that they need, or are you saying at the existing level of service, we are not
properly staffed?
Chief Westerman: Well, we do continue to grow. The island
continues to grow. The population continues to grow. Tourism continues to grow.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, and...
Chief Westerman: That creates more and more demand for the
Firefighters to do their job.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura...
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 28
Chief Westerman: More and more demand for the Firefighters to do
their job. Their job is not IT, right? Their job really is not going out and putting up tents
all over the island. That is really not their job. We are happy to do that, but at some point
in time, we have to say, "How are we going to manage this so we can manage it safely and
still provide the service to the community?" We can go back to this person. He is not the
only person. There are about four (4) of them who have those kinds of hours because they
are doing special programs within the Department. Some of their hours could be brought
back and assigned to the AC as the one attending the meetings, Monday through Friday, if
he is here he can attend a meeting. This particular individual, if it is his day off and he has
to attend the meeting it is on overtime, and we cannot tell IT, or the State, or somebody
else, "Change your meeting because our person is on overtime." We need to attend the
meeting. So some of that can come up, a little bit can come up to the AC level. So what we
are trying to say is we are getting to the point where we need to have a level of protection in
there to make sure that we do say "no" when we have to say no, and then, how do we say
no? Can we maybe do it on a different day? Can we maybe do it with different people?
When you have a BC doing it, if they are gone for four (4) days and a different decision has
to be made, I have to wait for them to come back to make that decision.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Council Chair Rapozo, and then we will come
back to you.
Councilmember Yukimura: Sure.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Council Chair Rapozo.
Council Chair Rapozo: The fact that we are asking these questions does
not mean we do not care. That is not the case.
Chief Westerman: We know.
Council Chair Rapozo: We have a budget that we have to balance. We
have a budget that we are looking at losing some TAT. We have some tough decisions to
make. I think the arguments that you bring are valid, but that would be valid for the Police
Department and valid for other Departments. I wish we could give everybody everything
that they wanted and it is difficult. As I look at this, how do we do this in a fair and
equitable way and that the community will benefit? I just wanted to make the fact that we
are asking the questions and Councilmember Yukimura is asking a lot of questions that are
in a lot of people's minds. I am not going to waste our time here. Chief, we can sit down
and talk story afterwards. I have a lot of questions as far as what they would be doing. The
positive thing is you made the Mayor's cut. So the Mayor is supportive of you and you had
much more discussions with him.
Chief Westerman: It does not come without its cost.
Council Chair Rapozo: A lot of things that you bring up with what this
Firefighter III is doing, just thinking out loud, can that be done while he is working? I
understand that you said that if he had to go to a meeting, you have to call him up. I am
not sure what that person is doing, but if we have an IT issue or we have a GIS issue and
you folks are not receiving the service that you should be getting and they are overworked
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 29
and overwhelmed at IT, then that is something that we have to look at. We will have that
discussion offline. I just wanted to make that point that we do care.
Chief Westerman: If I could point out, this is not a new position.
You talked about can a lower person do this? The Firefighter that we are moving up into
this position, not the person, the position, cannot manage a Battalion Chief. It has to be
somebody that can manage at a higher level. So this is not new. This is actually
reallocating an existing position to a new position. I am not sure we understood that.
Council Chair Rapozo: I noticed in your narrative, it was a new position,
but it already had a Position Number of 630.
Chief Westerman: Right.
Council Chair Rapozo: What was that position?
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Firefighter Trainee.
Chief Westerman: A Firefighter Trainee. Actually, it was...
Council Chair Rapozo: Oh, that is what you tried to do last year?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay, got it. Thank you.
Chief Westerman: And last year, you told us, "Go back and see if we
can do two (2) Assistant Chiefs or two (2) Deputy Chiefs." So we went to HR and they said,
"No, you cannot do two (2) Deputy Chiefs."
Council Chair Rapozo: I got it.
Chief Westerman: So we are back here saying, "Okay, the Assistant
Chief is the option for us."
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: I think Council Chair Rapozo said it well. We
are trying to serve and support you, but we have all of these issues and just a small
percentage of rank-for-rank would pay for this position. So it is all of this kind of balancing
that we have to do. As every Department is called to do more with less, we do want to see
how we can provide the same services with the use of technology, use of different resources,
and get the job done. So we are having to do things in a different way. You are right. We
just need to keep adding on of we just do everything the same way and we have more need,
more population, more calls. But what we are having to look for, all of us, is how do we
optimize the new technology to do the work that before, ten (10) people used to have to do?
Now, how can we do it with five (5) and new technology, or new structure or whatever?
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: I think we are all getting to the point of just if we
can provide a clear justification and any cost-benefit analysis for having this additional
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 30
position because I know we went through a lot of discussion last year. Last year, it was just
you, Chief, and we added the Deputy Fire Chief. So now we are faced with are we adding
another body again? So if you can provide us some type of justification, cost-benefit
analysis for us on why we need this position, how tight our budget is, and how it will help
the County?
Chief Westerman: Okay. We did not add. We funded the Deputy
Chief. We had the Deputy Chief for seven (7) years and then to save money, we dollar-
funded the Deputy Fire Chief. So sure, we will put something in writing and send it over
again.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Are any other questions? Are there any other
questions for Administration? I have a broad question and you kind of answered it earlier.
But again, what are you doing to control or reduce or manage overtime for controllable
overtime?
Councilmember Yukimura: Is that regular overtime?
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Is it discretionary overtime?
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Discretionary. It is not the premium, holiday, or
rank-for-rank. It is overtime.
Chief Westerman: Well, we are doing everything we think we can
do. We have asked the folks that are working programs to reduce the overtime if they can.
Our IT person, if you want to call them that, our MDT person, is the one we have asked
because he is pretty significant. We have a communications person who does that same
thing. We have asked him that if they can get to the meetings switched to when he is
on-shift, but again...
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Is there a way to significantly reduce our
manager overtime?
Chief Westerman: Well, we have reduced our overtime down to
about $267,000, that is manageable. If you average that out, you are only talking about a
Firefighter working thirteen (13) hours a year. We have one hundred thirty-five (135)
Firefighters, it is only thirteen (13) hours a year. It is just that some do not work any, some
work two (2) hours. Some work three (3) hours. Those are the holdover on the shift
because the person has to come in. If you are talking our F9 manageable overtime hours,
that is all there is. You have to take out the rank-for-rank. You have to take out the
scheduled overtime. You have to take out the TA premiums and all of that. Our
manageable overtime is very minimal. The other one is Fire Training, and we are planning
on reducing some of that Fire Training overtime by going to the Target Solutions software
so that more of that training can be done on shift and in their stations instead of being on
overtime.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 31
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Brun.
Councilmember Brun: I was just looking at Fire Operations. So regular
overtime is $698,000. Is that something that we cannot control?
Chief Westerman: No, because in that is holiday overtime. The
majority of that is holiday overtime, which we cannot control.
Councilmember Brun: And then so right now, we have five (5) people
per station per shift.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Brun: What is the minimum we can run with?
Chief Westerman: Four (4) is our watch standing requirement and
occasionally, we will go to three (3). We can go to three (3). Ninety percent (90%) of the
time we have to be at four (4).
Councilmember Brun: Okay. So if somebody calls in sick or somebody
takes off and we go to four (4), we automatically fill the fifth position with something on
overtime?
Chief Westerman: No.
Councilmember Brun: We will try to run with four (4)?
Chief Westerman: We run with four (4).
Councilmember Brun: Alright. Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: I do not know, maybe we should look at
Operations, but I am still looking at Administration. There are three (3) line items for
overtime on page 136. There is regular overtime, rank-for-rank overtime, and premium
pay. Maybe premium is not overtime. Well, it does have scheduled overtime, which is
$10,000 of the $16,000 that is called premium pay, so I guess that is an overtime. So you
have three (3) different kinds of overtime. Rank-for-rank is not managed. You do not have
management discretion on it, right? I think Budget & Finance Committee Chair is asking
you about manageable overtime.
Chief Westerman: Right.
Councilmember Yukimura: So rank-for-rank is not manageable. So there is
regular overtime and of that, it is broken down into holiday pay and overtime pay. Holiday
pay is not manageable either.
Chief Westerman: Right.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 32
Councilmember Yukimura: We have holidays and we have to pay people
when they work on holidays.
Chief Westerman: Right.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. So the only manageable one is $27,000?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: That $27,000, if you go down to premium pay, I
guess Temporary Assignment, you have some discretion with this?
Chief Westerman: No.
Councilmember Yukimura: No? Okay, scheduled overtime...
Chief Westerman: No.
Councilmember Yukimura: Is that the one you have discretion with?
Chief Westerman: No.
Councilmember Yukimura: You do not have scheduled overtime? So of the
three (3) different overtimes, which it looks like it totals about $160,000, $27,000 of that is
actually manageable?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: And I bet the dynamics get even more extreme
when you look at Operations. Which page is that?
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: My question was general. For Operations, that
overtime line item is $40,000.
Councilmember Yukimura: $40,000 out of almost $2,000,000?
Chief Westerman: Yes. I said we try to manage that as best we can.
We have asked them to do things on-shift when they can. If I do not have the overtime,
then I cannot run the programs. It just simply amounts to that. If I do not have that, IT
has to have somebody pretty much full-time to help with my MDT software. We work with
them diligent on the GIS software, but it takes that individual working with IT to get our
GIS software done. Our CERT program is another good example of that. We used to have
a CERT Coordinator and we no longer have the CERT Coordinator, so we have to do with
in-house Firefighters. Actually, our lead CERT Coordinator is here today and he is on the
job today. He is not here on overtime. But working with the community does not come 9:00
a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Working with the community, the classes run 5:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. in the
evening. They run twenty-two (22) schedules through the year. If he is on-shift, it helps,
but if he is not on-shift, then it creates some overtime.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 33
Councilmember Yukimura: I have this question for the Police as well as Fire,
are there certain positions that could be civilian rather than Firefighter positions to do the
job like a CERT Coordinator. No offense to your present CERT Coordinator because I know
how good he is. Does it really take the type of Firefighter training and everything, or can it
be somebody that is really close to the Fire Department? I have seen people like that who
understand operations, and has comes up to speed really quickly understanding things, but
does not have to all have all of the training.
Chief Westerman: I could civilianize the position, but I cannot give
you a Firefighter to do that.
Councilmember Yukimura: Of course not, but you could come in and ask...
Chief Westerman: So you would have to give me a position. It is
cheaper to do it on overtime than to fill a full-time position.
Councilmember Yukimura: Correct. Maybe all you need is a part-time
position for CERT Coordinator. I am just asking. Maybe two (2) or three (3) civilian
positions rather than an Assistant Chief.
Chief Westerman: No, that is...
Councilmember Yukimura: You need a Deputy.
Chief Westerman: Again, that is a whole different level of
responsibility in the Assistant Chief.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Are there any other questions on the
Administration line items? Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: Chief, I just wanted to confirm, you have $1,500
for all your stations for fire hoses.
Chief Westerman: I am sorry?
Councilmember Chock: Page 138, Special Projects. I see as you go into
Operations, you have under Public Safety, you also have fire hoses listed. I just wanted to
confirm what the difference was in your expense? Page 138 on the very bottom. Our
number, our page, Special Projects, $12,000.
Chief Westerman: Yes. When we put in our equipment line items,
those equipment items are identified exclusively. This line item is for things that we do not
know that will break or get lost in the performance of our job. Fire hoses burst or a
wrench...
Councilmember Chock: So miscellaneous items that come up throughout
the year?
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 34
Chief Westerman: Yes, items that come up. Also, we have
identified a few things here, only so that you get the idea what the money is supposed to be
used for. It is to replace things that we lose during the year, broken during the year.
Councilmember Chock: So that is an ongoing cost that you attribute to
each of the stations. Is the increase in the $7,000 for pest control? Is that what it is?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Chock: Okay.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Is pest control a new line item?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: What is that?
Chief Westerman: Pest control; bugs, rats, and cockroaches.
Councilmember Chock: Is that is attributed to every station as well?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Chock: Okay. Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Are there any other questions on
Administration? I have a question. Collective bargaining, annual physicals.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: $61,000. That a new line item or is that a line
item that we always had?
Chief Westerman: No, we have always had it.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Do we pay for them to go to the doctor and get a
physical?
Chief Westerman: Yes, annual physical. That is tied with their
Commercial Driver's License (CDL).
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Are there any other questions for
Administration? If not, we will move on to Operations. Are there any questions for Fire
Operations? Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: We have been told that electricity use,
Countywide, has been doing down. It looks like in Fire Operation, it is going up, not over
last year, but since 2015. When did our new Kaiakea Fire Station come on-board?
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 35
Chief Westerman: 2010.
Mr. Vaughan: 2010.
Councilmember Yukimura: 2010?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Anyway, it was supposed to be really
energy-efficient, right? It is a LEED-certified building. Have we found that it uses less per
square foot than other stations?
Chief Westerman: Yes, it does, but it is on the same cycle. The
demand is the same.
Councilmember Yukimura: Of course.
Chief Westerman: But it is a little less.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. So your electrical use has not been going
down?
Chief Westerman: A little bit, but not much.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Related to that, you said you are doing
energy improvements to the different fire stations starting with Kalaheo Fire Station.
Chief Westerman: We asked them in the CIP to examine putting
solar on the roof, and putting solar AC because it has window ACs, and it is very inefficient.
Councilmember Yukimura: So solar on the roof, meaning solar water
heating.
Chief Westerman: Photovoltaic (PV).
Councilmember Yukimura: You are going to heat your water with
photovoltaic?
Chief Westerman: No. Most of our stations have solar water
already.
Councilmember Yukimura: Excellent.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay, and so the solar that you are talking about
is a new improvement will be a photovoltaic system?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 36
Councilmember Yukimura: That covers your electrical needs other than
water?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Heating. Have you done analyses that show how
much you will be saving?
Chief Westerman: Well, the standard what we hear in the industry,
is that we should be able to save anywhere from fifty-five percent (55%) to seventy-five
percent (75%) of our costs. We are concerned because we are not a house like you and I live
in. We have demand all day long, so the assumption that it will actually save us even
more...you and I go to work every day. Everything in the house is shut down. So the PV
going...it is just turning the meter backwards in most cases. But we are in and out of the
house all day long, twenty-four (24) hours a day. So we have a higher demand, so we are
hoping that it will kick down to the high-end of that, like seventy-five percent (75%).
Councilmember Yukimura: Hopefully before you procure anything, you will
do an analysis to see whether and what kind of savings you will get. I hope you do not just
go on a general kind of claim that because a homeowner has done that, and they are not
getting the kind of savings that were projected.
Chief Westerman: That is why I said, that is why I heard the
average range is really pretty significant and again, it depends on the demand that you
have on your system.
Councilmember Yukimura: Do we have all light-emitting diode (LED) lights
and that kind of thing?
Chief Westerman: No.
Councilmember Yukimura: In our stations?
Chief Westerman: No.
Councilmember Yukimura: Because the advisable thing to do is do an energy
audit first so that you get a true picture of your real energy needs so you can size your
photovoltaic system not larger than needed.
Chief Westerman: Right. You could talk to Ben Sullivan about
that. I know we have gone through a couple energy audits since I have been here. But you
would have to ask him what the results are. They have changed lights, fixtures, and things
based on these audits.
Councilmember Yukimura: In your fire stations?
Chief Westerman: Yes, in all the fire stations.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. So you will make sure that there are
energy audits are done before the photovoltaic system?
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 37
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay, excellent. It is good news that you are
moving towards renewable energy. Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Council Chair Rapozo.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Chief, on your page 120, our page
156, under the "leased" line.
Chief Westerman: Page 120?
Council Chair Rapozo: Your page 120. We have a different set of page
numbers just to confuse the Councilmembers.
Chief Westerman: I have 156.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Bottom of page 156.
Chief Westerman: Okay. Got it.
Council Chair Rapozo: Oh, do you folks have the same numbers?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Page 156 on the bottom right under the
leased line on the top, you have the three (3) examples, El, assuming Engine 1, Engine 8,
and Engine 2.
Chief Westerman: Right.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is that the annual lease payments?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: $120,000. How much is a truck? $1,000,000?
Chief Westerman: No, they are about anywhere from $485,000 to
$585,000 depending on the type of truck. We are hoping with NASPO, that it will actually
be a little less.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. On Engine 8, it says, "Expires
September 2016."
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: But we are still paying?
Chief Westerman: No, it is going to expire.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 38
Council Chair Rapozo: This is 2017 already.
Chief Westerman: Yes. We know. We just now saw that ourselves.
Same thing with the helicopter. We just made the final payment on the helicopter.
Council Chair Rapozo: So is that Engine 8 line can be removed?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: See how we are saving money already, Chief.
Chief Westerman: You saved me money for my Assistant Chief.
Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: I just saved you $119,133.
Councilmember Brun: Now we might think about it.
Council Chair Rapozo: Like Bernard Carvalho would say, clap.
Chief Westerman: Well, if you look at the $209,000 for the
helicopter, we can remove that too.
Council Chair Rapozo: Oh, my gosh.
Chief Westerman: I just got verification that we did make it. I did
not want to take it out until we settled up with the bank because you never know what they
are like.
Council Chair Rapozo: That one, I now you were telling me was going to
be coming.
Chief Westerman: Right.
Council Chair Rapozo: So I was not as concerned. I figured by the
Supplemental Budget we should now, but the 2016 is pau?
Chief Westerman: Right.
Mr. Vaughan: On the Ladder 4 through the grant, we helped
save a couple years of leases by getting that award. So hopefully take that into
consideration as well.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: I am sorry. I just was not tracking here. Which
ones are coming down?
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: On page 156.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 39
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Under "Leased," E8, Engine 8.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: It expired 2016, so $119,000. Then two (2) below,
the helicopter is done, 2017.
Council Chair Rapozo: So we now own that thing, right, Chief?
Chief Westerman: Pardon?
Council Chair Rapozo: We now own the helicopter?
Chief Westerman: Yes. I have not seen the release, but yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: We will own that helicopter?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: So no more lease payments.
Chief Westerman: Right.
Council Chair Rapozo: Committee Chair Kaneshiro, you can tell me, but
just real quick and we can discuss this later, but the fact that we own the helicopter, does it
have any bearing on the use whether it is a public, private use? Is that something that we
can, you know where I am going with, right? The charging of our rescues. Right now,
prohibited because of the classification of use.
Chief Westerman: Right.
Council Chair Rapozo: Does the fact that we own it, does it have any
bearing on whether or not we can change the classification? If it is too complicated to
discussion here, we can discuss it later.
Chief Westerman: Well, the simple answer is no.
Council Chair Rapozo: It has no bearing?
Chief Westerman: It has no bearing.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay.
Chief Westerman: So you know, we have made a couple of attempts
and the County Attorney has made a couple of attempts to recover some moneys. They
could fill you in on the results of that.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 40
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Along the lines of the helicopter, now that we are
saving $209,000, my question was going to be, what is the cost and benefits of having the
helicopter? What would it have cost us if we did not have the helicopter and we had to do
certain rescues if we had to pay for a helicopter during the year compared to us having the
helicopter?
Chief Westerman: Well, I guess that could be a long discussion, but
we could not.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: You can keep it short.
Chief Westerman: We could not. The Federal Aviation
Administration (FAA) was preparing to fine us and any operator that was supporting us.
That was one of the main reasons...
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: For not having a helicopter?
Chief Westerman: For using their service inappropriately with the
FAA guidelines. The last three (3) flights that we did, the FAA started an investigation on
the carrier that was providing us service and he told us, "I am not going provide you service
anymore because it affects my license." So the whole concept was we could use them
occasionally. We are not using them occasionally anymore. We are flying regularly, saving
lives with the helicopter and putting out brush fires. So to them, it was no longer
occasional use. We were using the helicopter like it was our own, and so that is why the
carriers were saying, "Sorry, I have got to do my job. I do not mind helping you, but I am
not going lose my license over it." That what got us into doing our own helicopter.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: So helicopter companies were not wanting to
help with brush fires?
Chief Westerman: No, they wanted to help. But the FAA says,
"That is not what you are chartered to do and that is not what your license says you can
do."
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Okay. Councilmember Kawakami.
Councilmember Kawakami: Just a comment on that because I was on the
Council when that discussion took place. It was part of that, but another big reason is that
we had Firefighters jumping on helicopters with pilots they were not familiar with on
aircrafts that they were not familiar with, and they were having some very close calls. So
from a public safety standpoint, it made sense at the time because there was a big lobby on
the safety side of our Firefighters and the type of situations we were putting them will in.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Sorry. On page 153 under Other Services, the
helicopter pilot contract, can you refresh my memory? We are contracting with a company
or with an individual?
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 41
Chief Westerman: With a company.
Councilmember Yukimura: To the tune of$397,000 to operate the helicopter?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: And then there is a helicopter maintenance
contract, which is $105,000?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: So that is about $500,000?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: For sixty (60) rescues a year, according to your
statistics, right?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: So $500,000 divided by sixty (60) is the cost of
each rescue?
Chief Westerman: Well, we also fly for brush fires and that is not
included.
Councilmember Yukimura: Why is not it included?
Chief Westerman: Because those were rescues.
Councilmember Yukimura: Because they were not rescues?
Chief Westerman: Right.
Councilmember Yukimura: So how many brush fires were there?
Chief Westerman: I do not have that number in front of me, but I
can get it to you.
Councilmember Yukimura: I know that is a different nature of Operations,
because it is often a matter of days, sometimes, when you are doing it.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Could you provide us those statistics?
Chief Westerman: Sure.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 42
Councilmember Yukimura: How many brush fire incidents and how many
hours of operation? Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Brun.
Councilmember Brun: I have a follow-up. $397,000. So we have a pilot
on standby twenty-four (24) hours a day?
Chief Westerman: No. The contract pays for the company to
support us with a pilot that we have agreed to and trained with from sun up to sundown
every day. They also do the maintenance. They are also responsible to provide the Director
of Maintenance and the Director of Flight.
Councilmember Yukimura: For another $105,000?
Chief Westerman: No. The $105,000 is for parts.
Councilmember Yukimura: It is for parts only?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Brun: So $397,000 is the pilot, flight...
Chief Westerman: They actually have three (3) pilots and then a
mechanic, and then mechanic hours in case they have a large overhaul like a three
hundred (300) hour overhaul that takes three (3) or four (4) people and they usually bring
them in from Oahu.
Councilmember Brun: Okay.
Chief Westerman: They take the plane down. It also provides for a
standby aircraft when they are down for maintenance.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: I was just wondering, Chief or Rose, if you have
an accounting of responses to State jurisdiction and costs associated with those and/or costs
associated with visitors that we can look at.
Chief Westerman: We can get that, too.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: I have one (1) more.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Council Chair Rapozo.
Council Chair Rapozo: This is a follow-up, the sixty (60) you cite, are
those actual rescues?
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 43
Chief Westerman: Pardon.
Council Chair Rapozo: The sixty (60) rescues?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Those are actually where you actually rescued a
person?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: That is not including the time in air for search
and rescue, if you are looking? I know you folks go up.
Chief Westerman: You are right. It could include sometimes that
was a search and rescue time, yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: The sixty (60)?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Not inclusive though. I would assume that if you
went up and often times you folks go up to look for a missing hiker.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: And if you do not find them or the person gets
out on their own, is that included the sixty (60) or is it just actual?
Mr. Vaughan: I think the sixty (60) incidents, and the incident
can run maybe an hour. It could run a couple of hours.
Council Chair Rapozo: Days?
Mr. Vaughan: And then it also does not just entail sixty (60)
people. It could be two hundred (200) people. You could have one (1) rescue doing one
hundred twenty-one (121) people in one (1) day.
Council Chair Rapozo: Right. You are out there in case we have a
missing swimmer, you are out there for quite a few hours.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: It is difficult to say per rescue because one (1)
rescue or one (1) call may have been thirty (30) or forty (40) hours of helicopter time.
Chief Westerman: Right. We have that information. I apologize
that I did not bring that today. Every month, we know exactly how many hours we have
flown, what we have flown it for, and how many missions we have flown. I apologize I did
not bring that with me today, but we will get to you by the end of the day.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 44
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: I think even Hanakapi'ai, when the stream is
flooded, they are rescuing I do not know how many people that are stuck on one side. But
that would be one (1) incident, but you are flying that helicopter back and forth for a whole
number of people.
Chief Westerman: Right.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Are there any further questions?
Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: The fuel costs on page 155, diesel went up pretty
significantly from 2016. Is that because of the ladder or additional equipment?
Chief Westerman: No. I do not see that we went up that much.
Councilmember Chock: In 2016, the budget was $26,000. Is that correct?
This year's request is for $45,000 for diesel.
Chief Westerman: Yes, because that is the rate we are expending.
We were under budgeted and we spent more than that. I think I have that dollar amount.
Councilmember Chock: In previous years, you have 74, 56....
Chief Westerman: Right.
Councilmember Chock: So that is why I wanted to see if it is an error in
the budgeting?
Chief Westerman: We have cut in the budget where we think we
can and then at some time, history tells us that we have to move it back up.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Are there any further questions for Operations?
If not, we are going to move on to Prevention. Prevention for us, is on page 167. Are there
any questions for Prevention? Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Prevention regular overtime is $86,000. Is the
trailer taking $35,000 of that?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Apparently. So we are not able to handle that
with our regular hours?
Chief Westerman: No.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 45
Councilmember Yukimura: You have three (3) Firefighters, a Prevention
Inspector, and a Fire Captain in that Division. So the scheduling of time just does not
make it work to stay within regular hours?
Chief Westerman: Well, they do attend, one (1) of the members or
maybe even two (2) attend, but it takes about five (5) or six (6) people to do a school. To run
through all that we do at the school with a couple classes of kids, you cannot do that with
one (1) person. It takes four (4) to five (5) Firefighters to do that.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Is there a way to do that during non-overtime
hours because it is during the day?
Chief Westerman: Well, again, if you are going to give additional
duty to the Firefighter and we are going to take him away from his normal job and the
station has a fire call, they have to leave and leave behind one (1) or two (2) people that are
there from Prevention Bureau, then they have to stop what is going on at the school.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Can we not just do that?
Chief Westerman: We can stop the program.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: I mean, if there is an emergency?
Councilmember Yukimura: Not stop it, just...
Chief Westerman: There is no other way.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: I mean if they are at a school and there is an
emergency, then just go to the emergency, and tell the kids, "Hey sorry. It is part of our
job."
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, it would be exciting to the kids.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kawakami.
Councilmember Kawakami: Send the Fire Commissioners.
Council Chair Rapozo: I have a question.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Council Chair Rapozo.
Council Chair Rapozo: These Firefighters IIIs that are sitting in
Prevention, are they assigned to a station as well? They are not, right?
Chief Westerman: No.
Council Chair Rapozo: What kind of shifts do they have? Do they have
normal shifts?
Chief Westerman: Forty (40) hour workweek, yes.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 46
Council Chair Rapozo: They work Monday through Friday, I am
assuming.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: So on the school appearances, which would be
Monday through Friday and if it requires four (4) personnel, you are saying that you cannot
accommodate those requests with your existing...it is like one and a half (1.5) per month,
one (1) appearance a month, one and a half (1.5) a month, I guess. So you are saying that
with the three (3) Firefighter IIIs, the Fire Prevention Inspector, and the Captain, they
could not accommodate those requests for the school presentations on straight time? I
thought that is why when we went into this program with the Prevention Bureau, that was
what that was going to be. We are going to use those people to do the presentations so we
did not have to take people off the line. But you are saying we cannot accommodate that
once or twice a month with these five (5) individuals, and we are requiring to pull four (4)
individuals off the line, Firefighters off of the line, to do those presentations? Is that what I
am hearing?
Chief Westerman: Well, it is not one (1) a month or one and a
half(1.5) a month. They are done during the school time. So you have four (4) or five (5)
months of the year that you cannot do it.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay.
Chief Westerman: And then we do them mostly around Fire
Prevention Week, so you are doing a lot of them at one (1) time. You are not doing one (1)
this month and then one (1) the next month. That means then that the other work that the
Fire Prevention Inspectors are doing has to not get done.
Council Chair Rapozo: Typically when you go to a school, how long is the
demonstration? Maybe you have someone here that is on the trailer. When you roll up to a
school, how long does that trailer stay at the school?
DARRYL DATE, Fire Prevention Captain: Good morning Councilmembers.
Darryl Date, Fire Prevention Captain. When we go to the schools, we usually allot two (2)
full days at each school, and that is from the beginning of the school session all the way to
the end, and we usually allot half an hour per class.
Council Chair Rapozo: Oh, okay.
Mr. Date: So we utilize the entire day when we are there.
Council Chair Rapozo: So the eighteen (18) appearances would be
eighteen (18) different schools?
Mr. Date: Yes.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 47
Council Chair Rapozo: Eighteen (18) different days, I guess?
Mr. Date: It is eighteen (18) different schools, so times
two (2), most likely. Some of them are three (3) days for the bigger schools like Kapa'a
Elementary School and Elsie H. Wilcox Elementary School.
Council Chair Rapozo: I did not realize we had eighteen (18) schools on
the island.
Mr. Date: Well, that is public, charter, and private schools.
Council Chair Rapozo: Oh, okay.
Chief Westerman: We cannot leave anybody out.
Council Chair Rapozo: What?
Chief Westerman: We cannot leave anybody out.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: This $86,000 we are talking about is just the
regular overtime, then there is rank-for-rank, which is $51,000, and premium pay, which is
$52,000. So that is a total of$1,900,000 of overtime.
Chief Westerman: I am lost where you come up with that amount of
money.
Councilmember Yukimura: Excuse me.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: $190,000.
Councilmember Yukimura: $190,000. I am sorry. I know my math is off.
Okay, so sorry. $190,000 of overtime.
Chief Westerman: Then again, $11,000 of that is holiday, which we
cannot do anything about. Then, you are talking about the rank-for-rank, which is $51,000
of that.
Councilmember Yukimura: I know.
Chief Westerman: So you are down to about $70,000 or something
thousand that we use for the programs.
Councilmember Yukimura: It is still a lot of overtime for four (4) to five (5)
people.
Chief Westerman: It is not five (5) people. Each time, it is five (5)
people, and two (2) of them are on-shift. So it is three (3) people each time, so that is one
hundred forty (140) to one hundred fifty (150) occasions that they are getting overtime.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 48
Councilmember Yukimura: So what is this Bureau Opportunity Benefit
Incentive?
Chief Westerman: Contract agreement.
Mr. Vaughan: Bargain 4.
Chief Westerman: The forty (40) hour Firefighters that come into
the forty (40) hour workweek.
Councilmember Yukimura: And standby pay. Is that not for standing by
for...
Mr. Vaughan: That is for fire investigation.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Mr. Vaughan: In the evening off hours.
Councilmember Yukimura: I am sorry?
Mr. Vaughan: Standby pay is in the evenings on the off hours.
So if you want somebody to respond to a fire structure fire call or fire investigation, and
one (1) of the Inspectors is on standby for that evening to make sure he is available to
respond to the call.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Council Chair Rapozo.
Council Chair Rapozo: Those are contract items. There is nothing you
can do about that, right?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Mr. Vaughan: They are collectively bargaining for.
Council Chair Rapozo: You have one (1) Fire Inspector in the budget,
but you have three (3) Firefighters IIIs. Are those Firefighter IIIs also considered
Inspectors?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: So the standby would be rotated amongst those
people in the Division?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 49
Mr. Vaughan: If you look at page 158, those five (5) positions
are Fire Inspectors, Fire Investigators, Fire Public Educators, and Fire Prevention
Inspector II is the Plans Examiner, that was my position and when I moved, it since has
been vacant.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay.
Mr. Vaughan: And it is on continuous recruitment.
Council Chair Rapozo: And I bet right now, you wish you were back
there.
Mr. Vaughan: I am happy in the fire.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Brun.
Councilmember Brun: Out of these five (5) positions that are forty (40)
hour weekdays, are they on seven (7) days a week?
Chief Westerman: Five (5) days a week.
Councilmember Brun: So they are on five (5) days a week? I am just
trying to figure it out. Holiday pay is separate. It would not be under their regular pay for
the day?
Chief Westerman: Well, that is if they have to work the holiday or
they worked the holiday. That is what the holiday pay is.
Councilmember Brun: Okay. So they are not working if they do not
have to?
Chief Westerman: Right.
Councilmember Brun: This is just in case they get a call?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Brun: That is when the $11,000 should be kicking in
then?
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Holiday pay is automatic, right?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Brun: In their salary, but this is budgeted for overtime
like the $11,000 on holiday. That is the question I was asking.
Chief Westerman: If they work.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 50
Mr. Vaughan: So maybe the Inspectors work Monday through
Friday, forty (40) hour workweek. Kuhio Day falls on Monday. If they come in to do work
that is backed up, they can work the holiday pay. Often times, not everyone works that at
all.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: We are coming up to a caption break. I think it
is a good time to take a ten (10) minute caption break, and we will come back to this.
There being no objections, the Committee recessed at 11:00 a.m.
The Committee reconvened at 11:13 a.m., and proceeded as follows:
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Okay. Welcome back. We are still on
Prevention. Do we have further questions for Prevention? I have a question that is going
backwards because I think the questions went around. Again, if these people are working
8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m., why is there overtime associated with the demonstrations at the
school? Is that not during their regular work hours?
Chief Westerman: This overtime is for the Firefighters that come in.
You are talking about the overtime pay in Prevention?
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: For the Fire Safety Trailer.
Chief Westerman: For the Fire Safety Trailer, that is not for the
Prevention folks. That is for the other Firefighters that come in and support it, four (4) to
five (5) Firefighters in addition to the Firefighters supporting that program.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: How many firefighters are at that?
Chief Westerman: It could be five (5). We try to keep it down to
five (5) or less.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Do we need five (5) there for the demonstration?
Chief Westerman: Well, when you want to run twenty-five (25) kids
through four (4) stations in less than a bell, yes.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Can we run less stations? I am just trying to
figure out how to save costs.
Chief Westerman: You tell me how much you want to cut and I will
modify the program. That is really what it takes to run the program that we have right
now. We can.
Council Chair Rapozo: I have a question.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: I am not running the program. I do not know
how to save the costs. I am just asking the question. Are you able to reduce it so you have
less Firefighters there on overtime?
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 51
Chief Westerman: We can, but it would be a less effective program.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Council Chair Rapozo.
Council Chair Rapozo: This program is the one that these people go
through the chambers, the fire extinguishers, and that whole...
Chief Westerman: Hands-Only CPR.
Council Chair Rapozo: Right. So, that is the whole shebang?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: The program that you are talking about here is
the whole shebang?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. I was thinking it was just the show and
tell, but this is actually the one...I got it.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Is there a possibility of further educating and
using your CERT volunteers to help the existing Firefighters in prevention to make school
presentations?
Chief Westerman: I guess that is a possibility.
Councilmember Yukimura: Because they know CPR, right?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: I mean, so you would have to further educate
them on the issues of fire prevention, but it seems to me, you might be able to reduce costs
that way because you do not need somebody who is jumping into a fire or knowing how to
operate a fire truck. You just need somebody who knows how to educate kids.
Chief Westerman: I suppose, if I could get volunteers.
Councilmember Yukimura: These are very volunteer-minded volunteers that
you have in your CERT group. Anyway, it is just an idea.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Again, how can we think outside of the box and
save costs on things like this? Are some Firefighters willing to volunteer on their days off
to assist at that Fire Safety Trailer? I do not know. I am just trying to think outside of the
box. Are there any further questions on this? Council Chair Rapozo.
Council Chair Rapozo: I would say that as far as the volunteers, they do
not allow that because of the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA). That is just a ridiculous
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 52
law that if you want to volunteer on your own time whether you are Police, or Fire, or
whatever, you have to get overtime.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Scratch that idea. Councilmember Kawakami.
Councilmember Kawakami: Wow, I was not aware of that. Even career days,
they are required to get overtime as well? If I am a parent of a child that goes to a school
and they have a career day and say, "Hey, Bobby can you get your dad to come out and
participate," we are required to pay them?
Chief Westerman: That is a little different.
Councilmember Kawakami: Oh, it is different?
Chief Westerman: Yes, it is a little different. If you are as a parent
are volunteering and you are talking about your day, for us, we have Firefighters that do
that all the time.
Councilmember Kawakami: Okay.
Chief Westerman: This is different. This is a function that we are
doing within the Department. It is a program within the Department that works with the
scope of their jobs. So that means it is FLSA. We cannot ask them to volunteer for that.
Councilmember Kawakami: I got it. So career days are different?
Chief Westerman: Yes. We go to career days, but we do those
on-shift.
Councilmember Kawakami: Okay.
Council Chair Rapozo: I think if you read the law and we went through
this many times with many Executive Sessions, we got sued about this. This County has
had two (2) settlements from a Police Officer, class actions from Police and Fire. As long as
you do not get caught, you are okay. So as long as you put on the uniform and that badge
and you are acting in the capacity whether you are a dad or what, you volunteer for a
charity dance and put on the uniform, you qualify for FLSA. Maybe Rose can correct me if I
am wrong. That was the briefing we got years ago. So as long as nobody squeals, you do
not come back later and say, "Hey, I volunteered. I put on my uniform."
ROSE BETTENCOURT, Kaua`i Fire Department Personnel Specialist: Yes,
because they are really rigid on that so far as volunteering. It is not really, truly
volunteering, so we would have to pay. Yes, somebody can do that on their own time, and
then later on, file. If we knew or, could have known, or should have known that they were
doing this, then we are liable.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes.
Ms. Bettencourt: So that is the problem.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 53
Council Chair Rapozo: Unfortunately, that costs the County a lot of
money and it is just a ridiculous law. It is what it is.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: I am not talking about asking Firefighters to
volunteer. I was talking about asking civilian CERT volunteers to volunteer.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kaneshiro asked about the
workers.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: I asked that question.
Councilmember Yukimura: Oh.
Council Chair Rapozo: He had the last question and that is why I
brought that up.
Councilmember Yukimura: Oh, okay.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: So, let us get retired Firefighters to go and
volunteer because they have nothing better to do on their days off...no. Are there any
further questions for Prevention? Of course, if you leave it in our hands, the only
mechanism we have is to cut the budget. So we would say, "Here, figure out how to do this
with half the amount of money." That would be the only thing we could do on our side. Are
there any further questions for Fire Prevention? If not, we are going to move on to
Training. As Council Chair Rapozo noted earlier...the recruit class.
Chief Westerman: I would like to restate that it is in both years
because this class starts in this Fiscal Year and it goes into the next calendar year. So
there are two (2). It is the end of one class and the start of another in the next calendar
year.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay.
Chief Westerman: My apologies.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Are there any other questions? Councilmember
Brun.
Councilmember Brun: Training, same thing. Three (3) people, just
regular Monday through Friday?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Brun: These are on-shift just Monday through Friday?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Real quick, Committee Chair Kaneshiro.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 54
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Council Chair Rapozo.
Council Chair Rapozo: How long is your recruit training?
Chief Westerman: Seven (7) weeks.
Council Chair Rapozo: Seven (7) weeks, and you are starting in May?
Mr. Vaughan: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: So you should be done by the end of the fiscal
year.
Chief Westerman: No.
Mr. Vaughan: Calendar year.
Councilmember Brun: Seven (7) weeks or seven (7) months?
Mr. Vaughan: Seven (7) months.
Council Chair Rapozo: Oh, you said seven (7) weeks.
Chief Westerman: Seven (7) months.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay, got it.
Councilmember Brun: Seven (7) weeks, sign me up. I should have been
a Fireman.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Are there any other questions? There was not
too much change in the budget. Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: So you are not anticipating that much savings
from the Targets Solution training?
Chief Westerman: Yes, we will, but we do not know what that is
going to be yet and how long it is going to take us to get the program online.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. So you have not specified the courses or
anything like that yet?
Chief Westerman: No.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: We had a few extra classes added in the
overtime, Department of Education (DOE), Hands-Only CPR Training, and Fall Prevention
Training. Are those all new programs? One (1) is, I think, $10,000 and the other is
$17,000. It is regular overtime and training programs, page 165.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 55
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: The very bottom of the Training Programs, there
is a DOE Hands-Only and Fall Prevention Training.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Are those required?
Chief Westerman: Those are additional programs we are doing in
the school and doing with the County.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: I fully support the public education that is
happening with CPR. I used to go to school in Seattle where their goal was to train one (1)
out of four (4) adults who knew CPR. I think it was one (1) out of four (4), one (1) out of
three (3), so that if you were anywhere there were three (3) people, you had a good chance of
having somebody to know CPR. So I think it is a great prevention measure and you really
are taking on your emergency response function well. So we are evolving towards that.
Chief Westerman: Seattle is a program we are modeled after.
Councilmember Yukimura: Excellent. I am looking again at your chart,
where you say seventy-three percent (73%) of the calls for medical, one percent (1%) was for
helicopters, and twenty-two (22) calls required fire. I am wondering how much of your total
budget is geared to firefighting? What is the cost of your budget for twenty-two (22) calls?
We are evolving, so that is why a fire engine goes to a house emergency call because we
started as a Firefighting Division, but in fact, now we are evolving and our society is
evolving, so you are more emergency medical, ocean rescue, and much more diverse type of
departmental needs and yet, our whole structure is on firefighting.
Chief Westerman: Yes. You could say the whole budget is to fight
twenty-two (22) fires because it is a preparation issue. You have to have the firefighters
equipped and you have to have them trained and they have to be ready to respond on a
moment's notice. So all of that has to be done prior to a fire, and yes, if there are only
twenty-two (22) fires, yes, that is a big expense for the twenty-two (22) fires. What are all
of the other things that keeps us busy twenty-four (24) hours a day, seven (7) days a week?
Medical is a big part of that. Like you said, we are trying to evolve, too, and how we modify
our response so that we can be more efficient, more effective, and reduce risks? That is the
biggest challenge here, reducing risks. We have the helicopter, but every time the
helicopter turns on its rotors, our risk meter goes all the way over. So if we can avoid that
through prevention somehow or working with the State to have them finally get that bridge
in so that we are not running out to Hanakapi'ai, those are all of the prevention measures
that we want to take to reduce the amount of times that helicopter has to fly. But if it is
life and death and the helicopter is the only way, that is what it takes. It is the same with
a fire. If it is a major fire and we have six (6) engines responding, they have to be trained,
prepared, and prepped. So, how do we now work with the fact that is the two (2) least
things we do out of everything we do?
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 56
Councilmember Yukimura: Right.
Chief Westerman: Because they are the most expensive, no doubt.
They are the most expensive. If all we did was EMS, I could tell you what it would cost.
American Medical Response (AMR) has an $8,000,000 bill. That is not what we are doing.
So how do we now respond and serve our citizens, support AMR, and support EMS? We are
rethinking how we are responding and, in fact, we have had a couple of engine companies
already take on the challenge to determine the risk if we respond with only the smaller
truck, a Captain, and our EMT to a medical call and leave the engine and the operator
behind. That is a risk. It is a huge risk to assume that there is nothing going to happen
while those two (2) or three (3) Firefighters are out of the station responding to a medical
call because as it is today, there are times when we are out on a call and we have to
actually split our units already. It is two (2) medical calls. It is not necessarily a fire, but it
might be two (2) medical calls. So we are rethinking that.
Councilmember Yukimura: Good.
Chief Westerman: We are trying to figure out a better way to do
that as you saw in my presentation. We are considering getting a different kind of vehicle
to respond so that we can then provide that service a little differently.
Councilmember Yukimura: I so appreciate that you are looking at that
because I think, and this does not apply only to the Fire Department although it is pretty
dramatic when you look at the Fire Department. We have to restructure ourselves for our
changing mission and that is what I hear you are beginning to do. Part of that is also, I
think, asking what civilians can do rather than Firefighters because even this kind of CPR
education, probably can be taught by civilians rather than Firefighters. Even as I look at
Maui's Police Department, some of the youth work, they have a fairly large contingent of
social workers in the Police Department who are very highly-trained to work with youth.
They have this wonderful coordinated work between the Police Officers who do their police
work, but are coordinated with their social workers who are within the Department. So I
see that because you can get a very effective social worker for far less salary and different
kind of training than you would for Policeman or Firefighter. It is just kind of finding
appropriate roles and not just saying that the Firefighter has to do every function.
Chief Westerman: I agree one hundred percent (100%), and it goes
to what I said earlier about if I had an IT and MDT Technician, I would not have to spend
those many overtime hours on the Firefighter performing additional duties. But at this
point, that person would cost more money than the overtime money. So any of the
programs that we would want to pursue and have a non-uniformed person do for us, there
is still a cost-benefit analysis. Is it cheaper to continue to do it with overtime firefighters
versus hiring a full-time person, which it takes probably two (2) firefighters or three (3)
firefighters of overtime before you get to the point that you are going to fund a civilian
position to do the work? I agree one hundred percent (100%). I wish I could get there,
but...
Councilmember Yukimura: I do not know. If you put in all of the
rank-for-rank and all of the overtime, that adds up pretty fast.
Chief Westerman: Well, that is there regardless.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 57
Councilmember Yukimura: And the training requirements. All of the
intensive...which you need in order to fight a fire.
Chief Westerman: Right.
Councilmember Yukimura: But you do not need in order to teach CPR or do
the Trailer Fire Prevention training.
Chief Westerman: Right, and I agree. But to me, the cost-benefit is
we have to do that anyway. We have to have all of that expense and all of that training
anyway. So if we can take a little bit of additional overtime for that Firefighter to do
additional work, that is where savings comes from versus hiring a whole person to do that
job.
Councilmember Yukimura: $60,000 a year for Fire Prevention Trailer work.
Chief Westerman: Yes, and if I put five (5) civilians in there, that is
more than $60,000, even if I did it with three (3) civilians. That is $350,000 to $400,000.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. Okay. Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Brun.
Councilmember Brun: Chief, the regular overtime on this is $483,000.
Looking on the next page, that is for the cost of the programs, like first-responder, eight (8)
hours $46,000. Is that for a program? That is not just for the employee, the $46,000 in
eight (8) hours, right?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Brun: Okay. So all that is just programs that you need
for that?
Chief Westerman: In programs and overtime costs, yes.
Councilmember Brun: Okay. Alright.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: This is the overtime costs that are incurred by
the employees during the training, right?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro; So when they are training, they are not training
during work hours. When they do the programs, then they incur these overtime.
Councilmember Brun: This is for all of the employees going under the
Training?
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 58
Chief Westerman: This is for overtime costs program, right. In
Training, there is money for the program and money for the overtime costs. This is where
we are hoping to reduce some of this with Target Solutions. How much of this are we going
to be able to convert to Target Solutions in the next year?
Councilmember Brun: Okay. I was thinking that $483,000 was just for
the three (3) people making that much overtime.
Chief Westerman: No.
Councilmember Brun: Okay. It is for the whole Fire Department, but it
comes under Training?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Brun: Got it.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: So the more training they can do with that
software in the building during working hours, the smaller these numbers should get
hopefully. Are there any further questions on Training? No? We will move on to Water
Safety. Water Safety is on page 172. Are there any questions for Water Safety? Their
budget was pretty static. Retirement contribution was the largest jump, but that is because
of ERS.
Council Chair Rapozo: I just have one (1) really quick question and it is
about the Roving Patrol, I guess, you call it. Is that working out alright?
Chief Westerman: Yes. Actually, the first day was a success at
Anini Beach. They were close. We were able to do a rescue at Anini Beach, but that has
kind of been the norm for them. I do not want to say it is a matter of luck. It is a matter of
fact that they are no longer sitting at one (1) tower. So we have the Roving Patrol around.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: As a follow-up to that, do you have a report that
tells us a one-year evaluation of the program, how it has been, how many rescues have been
done, and what has worked and not worked?
Chief Westerman: We have not had a whole year of the Roving
Patrol yet.
Councilmember Yukimura: That is true.
Chief Westerman: But we will be gathering that information.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. How long has it been in operation?
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 59
Chief Westerman: December we were in full swing with the vehicles
and the jet skis.
Councilmember Yukimura: So not even half a year?
Chief Westerman: Not even half a year.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
Chief Westerman: I do have some statistics here, I guess.
Councilmember Yukimura: Great. Thank you.
Chief Westerman: I told them to be prepared. Thank you for the
question. So Fiscal Year to-date in 2016-2017, they have had twenty-two (22) rescues,
three (3) assists, four thousand seven hundred twenty-seven (4,727) preventions, two
hundred eight (208) first aids, nine thousand one hundred ninety-four (9,194) public
contacts, and the beaches they attended accounted for one hundred seven thousand seven
hundred forty (107,740) people.
Councilmember Yukimura: So the assists versus rescues are what? I mean,
they are not the main ones that make the rescues?
Chief Westerman: Yes. Captain Ortiz.
RANDALL ORTIZ, Water Safety Officer: Aloha, Randy Ortiz, Ocean Safety.
Actually, the assists would be with the fire engine itself.
Chief Westerman: They were assisting the Fire Department.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, so the Firefighters were the first responders
and then you came in to assist?
Mr. Ortiz: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: It being probably a water incident. Okay. That
is a small number compared to your actual rescues, yes?
Mr. Ortiz: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Three (3), I think assists and how many rescues?
Mr. Ortiz: Twenty-two (22).
Councilmember Yukimura: And locations of those rescues?
Mr. Ortiz: The rescues itself...
Councilmember Yukimura: If you do not have it right now, maybe you can
just...
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 60
Mr. Ortiz: I have a few.
Councilmember Yukimura: Oh, okay.
Mr. Ortiz: In March 2017, sorry, Jet Ski rescued Hanalei
River mouth from high surf. They were luckily in the area and they responded. In fact,
this morning, we just had a boat in distress and the southwest Roving Patrol was assisting
the Coast Guard. Again, having the Roving Patrols helps the island as well as the stations.
So it is a good thing.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. Thank you, and thank to KLA for their
support.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Are there any other questions from the
Members? KLA does a lot to support the lifeguards.
Councilmember Yukimura: And Dr. Downs. Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: If there are no other questions, we are at
11:40 a.m. We can take an early lunch. We will get back at 12:40 p.m. and we will take
Police early, and then hopefully, we can finish the day early. We are about an hour ahead
of schedule, I guess.
Councilmember Yukimura: I had an appointment at 12:30 p.m. with my
dad's doctors.
Councilmember Chock: I have a 12:30 p.m. appointment too.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: We will still have four (4).
Council Chair Rapozo: But we cannot go to the bathroom.
Councilmember Kawakami: We can, but we just have to take a recess.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: We will take a recess if someone has to go to the
restroom. If you can let Police know, we will be here at 12:40 p.m. or 12:45 p.m., around
there. Again, thank you, Fire, for being here. It was a good presentation on the overall
picture. We will take a one (1) hour lunch break.
There being no objections, the Committee recessed at 11:40 a.m.
The Committee reconvened at 1:30 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Welcome back. We have the Police Department
up now. Chief, are you going to do a quick introduction and presentation?
DARRYL D. PERRY, Chief of Police: Yes, if you give me the latitude, I have a
brief opening statement that I would like to share. Aloha Council Chair Rapozo, Vice Chair
Kagawa, Budget & Finance Committee Chair Kaneshiro, and Councilmembers. Thank you
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 61
for allowing us the opportunity to present our 2017-2018 budget for the Kauai Police
Department (KPD). Please let me start by saying I have never been more proud of the men
and women of the Kaua`i Police Department. We have stayed the course by providing the
best possible service to keep our community safe within the constraints of our budget. But
sometimes we are evaluated from the lens of misunderstanding, not knowing exactly what
our responsibilities are, not knowing the complexities of our job, not knowing our legal
mandates and possible liabilities, not knowing the dangers we face on a daily basis, not
knowing how it feels to strap a gun on your hip, and wear an armored vest, believing that a
quarter inch of Kevlar will save your life from a bullet. When people run away from
danger, we run to danger because that is the choice and commitment we have made in the
service of our community.
Unfortunately, the challenges we face today are unprecedented. For example, there
is a saying that "a lie goes halfway around the world before the truth put on its boots." But
with today's technology, everyone is a reporter with the use of cell phones and smartphones
that record videos and connect them to Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and the like. Today,
false narratives can circle the globe three (3) or four (4) times before law enforcement can
respond to misinformation. This was clearly evident in Ferguson, Missouri when Police
Officer Wilson shot Michael Brown, a black male, who had just robbed a convenience store.
False narratives said that Brown was shot in cold blood by police while surrendering with
his hands up. This information was spread globally and was blatantly false, but that did
not stop the misunderstanding from being imbedded in the consciousness of Americans, and
although the officer was cleared of all charges based on evidence and eyewitness testimony,
many still believe that Michael Brown was murdered in spite of overwhelming evidence to
the contrary. That violence by police against civilians is going unchecked. This is not true
because there is no data to support that claim. That is why Federal Bureau of
Investigation (FBI) Director James Comey has made it a priority to gather statistics
nationwide so that this conversation about perceived police brutality and abuse can take
place from a position of facts.
In the meantime, KPD is addressing the issue of being more open and developing
better relationships with our major media outlets, such as KITV, KHON, Hawai`i News
Now, and Civil Beat, just to name a few. We have implemented community outreach
programs coupled with the implementation of body-worn cameras, the only department to
do so in order to protect our citizens and police officers from misinformation. You should
know for the past five (5) years, KPD has reacted and responded to over forty thousand
(40,000) calls for service annually. However, our resources are being continually stretched
to the limit by repeat offenders who commit drug, property, and crimes against persons. As
an example, in today's Garden Island newspaper there is an article on Mrs. Numazaw, who
since 2003 has been arrested fifty-eight (58) times, twenty-eight (28) felonies, eighteen (18)
misdemeanors, and twelve (12) petty misdemeanors. Just this past Wednesday, we
identified seven (7) individuals in the Garden Island newspaper who were arrested for
theft, burglaries, credit card fraud, identification theft, and forgeries. Arresting these
individuals would not have been possible without strategic and careful planning by
targeting career criminals. As a result, we have seen a sixty-two percent (62%) reduction in
burglaries and a seven percent (7%) reduction in thefts. KPD has a sixty-two percent (62%)
closure rate for sexual assaults through the prosecution of perpetrators. This can be
compared to the national average of only thirty-nine percent (39%). Both homicide and
bank robbery cases in the past five (5) years have a one hundred percent (100%) closure
rate, and with regards to unsolved homicides, there are no cold cases. All unresolved
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 62
homicides are reviewed and examined periodically to ascertain if there are viable leads to
pursue, especially as technology evolves.
For the past three (3) years, KPD Narcotics detail as the lead agency working in
collaboration with the FBI, Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), and Postal Service,
have taken down drug trafficking organizations situated here on Kaua`i and as a result,
recovered over twenty (20) pounds of crystal methamphetamine with a street value of
between $3,500,000 to $5,000,000. This is twenty-five (25) pounds of ice that will not find
its way into the households of our community and will not be the cause of domestic violence
against women and violence against our most vulnerable in our community, our children
and elderly. Before you say, "So what," let us say this, if I told you nine (9) years ago that
KPD would have been accredited; if I had told you that we would be the first Department to
wear the body-worn cameras in the State of Hawai`i; if I would have told you the first to
have presumptive deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) protocol in the State spearheaded by a
Harvard graduate; if I had told you that we would seek and obtain $2,300,000 in records
management system for the County at no cost; if I had told you that we would be awarded
six (6) Community Oriented Policing Services (COPS) grant Police Officer positions; if I had
told you it would completely overhaul KPD's internal administrative structure to hold our
employees accountable for acts of misconduct; and if I told that you that the Honolulu,
Maui, and Big Island Police Departments would look at us for leadership, nine (9) years
ago, many would have said we were crazy. But that is exactly what we did. We did not do
it alone, but with the support of everyone here in this room and that is why I am so proud of
what we have accomplished collectively. However, we cannot rest on our laurels. We must
continue to move forward especially in the area of cybercrime where the dark web continues
to promote illicit drug sales and human trafficking without repercussions.
While I understand your concerns with respect to fiscal responsibility, I can assure
that KPD takes this responsibility very seriously, and our efforts in that regard have gone
over and above reducing costs wherever possible. However, there is a caveat, we are at the
bedrock financially of being able to provide of the services that are expected of KPD, and
further cuts will lead to reduced services and may cripple our ability to be proactive to
combat emerging challenges such as the increased proliferation of narcotics. We cannot
afford to let our guard down and as such, we need to have your continued fiscal support.
Last night when I talked to my wife Solet about coming before you, I told her what I
was going to say, she said, "Well, that seems really dark." But the fact of the matter is that
is what we are facing today. So as I mentioned, we want to continue to stay the course and
we want to be able to accomplish our mission and realize our vision of reducing the fear of
crime in our community. So with that said, the most important statement I am going to say
today is I am going to turn it over to Deputy Chief Michael Contrades for the rest of the
presentation. Thank you very much.
MICHAEL CONTRADES, Deputy Chief of Police: Thank you, Chief. Good
afternoon. We have prepared a brief presentation to kind of answer or hopefully answer
some of the questions that may be out there in terms of what we have done to be fiscally
responsible as a Department. Overview of our budget, we have three (3) sources of funding:
our operational General Fund, our Criminal Asset Fund, and grant funding. This year, our
operating budget is ninety-one percent (91%) salaries, overtime, and fringe benefits with a
balance of nine percent (9%) for all other expenditures.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 63
Compared to last year, we have a net increase of nine point five percent (9.5%) or a
little over $2,900,000. Seven point nine percent (7.9%) of that are net increases due to
collective bargaining pay. One point six percent (1.6%) are things that we are asking for or
$509,000 such as utilities for Kapa'a Armory, new vehicles, office expansion, an evidence
building, and biennial physicals.
We have managed eighteen (18) Federal and State grants which was roughly
$2,800,000. Some grants are recurring and some are not. With the Federal government's
fiscal situation over the years, we have seen a steady reduction in funding. We do our best
to expend grant funds before we do County funds. One (1) example is traffic enforcement.
We try to do that on grant funding.
Our Criminal Asset Fund is a program that we have through the United States
Department of Justice (DOJ). It is sharing federally forfeited property. The primary
purpose for Assets Forfeiture is law enforcement to deter crime by depriving criminals of
the profits or proceeds of their illegal activities and removal of the instrumentality of crime.
It is also to enhance cooperation between the Federal, State, and local law enforcement
agencies. Essentially, they give us a percentage of the funds for cases we are involved in,
and those funds are to be used for equipment, investigations, training, and in some cases,
salaries. We have used some of our Asset Forfeiture Funds to help us pay for new positions
with the COPS grant. Essentially, criminal asset funds cannot be supplanted. In other
words, they cannot take the place of funds. They must be used to enhance our budget.
If we do not comply with the Federal government's guidelines, they may deny us our
sharing requests. In other words, we are going to get the money that we are due through
the program, we could be temporarily or permanently excluded from the program, they
could offset future sharing in the amount equal to impermissible uses, and there may be
some civil enforcement actions taken against us for breach of contract, or in some serious
cases, criminal prosecution at the Federal level.
In terms of fiscal responsibility and cost-savings, we constantly are trying to analyze
our budget, apply cost-reduction measures, and get to that point of being at those
anticipated expenditures. We believe we are there. We have searched for innovative and
fiscally responsible ways to accomplish our goals. I am just going to name three (3) of them
to be brief, but we have many more. Last year we did this, we did this again this year. As
we have built our recruit class, we hired the first three (3) of that class. While we went
through the process to train or hire the others, we trained the three (3) for detention facility
duties and put them in the facility while we were working the rest of the class trying to hire
more people. Those three (3) Police Services Officers (PSOs) that work there, saved us
fifty-three (53) nine (9) hour shifts or roughly about $35,000. So that is something that has
worked in the past, it has worked well this time, and we plan to do it again in the future to
save on overtime costs. Negotiation of a contract. Our personnel work really hard to
negotiate this contract and not only did they get better quality equipment for our new
marked vehicles, but they were able to save about $5,000 per vehicle. So we have an
estimated savings of about $95,000 on the purchase. We also moved and purchased
ParaDNA system. This allows our investigators to perform in-house, these things are done
at the Kaua`i Police Department, presumptive DNA screening for profile comparison and
sample quality. KPD tested fifty-three (53) items thus far, a total cost to us is a little over
$4,200. So if we did these same tests and sent these tests out to a private laboratory, it
would have cost between $34,000 and $58,000 depending on which laboratory it went to. So
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 64
our estimated cost-savings is between $30,000 and $54,000. Again, these are just three (3)
examples that we wanted to provide to you to demonstrate that we are trying as hard as we
can to be fiscally responsible.
These are budget requests above and beyond our budget. One (1) of the directives
was to come in and make sure our budget was flat. These are the things outside of that
that we will need. According to the State of Hawai`i Organization of Police Officers
(SHOPO) Collective Bargaining Agreement, every two (2) years, we have to provide annual
physicals for our Police personnel, and that is roughly $65,000. On a side note, this use to
be closer to $100,000, but we really took a hard look at what the services were providing
and we also took a look at the contract, and was able to bring it down to $65,000. Utilities
for the Kapa'a Armory. The Department of Defense (DOD) will no longer be utilizing the
facility, so there is no more shared costs. At this point, we will be responsible for the
electricity, water, and sewer. So we are asking for additional funds to pay for those things
at the Kapa'a Armory. KPD office expansion. We expanded our offices previously. We are
utilizing some unused space within the building, so instead of traditional construction,
which is expensive, we purchased these paneling to create office space. It will provide our
detectives with a secured area to maintain the integrity of their cases, and we are doing our
best to utilize the existing space in order to be fiscally responsible. New vehicles. KPD
suffers with an aging fleet and so the repairs to the vehicles are becoming very costly. We
do have a replacement policy in place that we put in several years ago. Right now, I think
we are in two (2) years of a three (3) year strategic plan in order to replace all of the
vehicles that we need and to get them up to speed to be in line with the policy that was
drafted. Vehicles that are replaced, we can use them for other things. We can pass them
down to other County agencies or we can use it in non-pursuit areas. Then out of our Asset
Forfeiture Fund, we are asking for $100,000 for training opportunities and equipment
needs.
As far as vacancies, we wanted to explain that over the last five (5) years, we have
hired one hundred four (104) people to fill vacancies. These are not new positions. These
are to fill vacant positions. We have hired seventy (70) Police Services Officers over the last
five (5) years, eighteen (18) Dispatchers, seven (7) Clerks, three (3) Crime Scene Specialists,
Evidence Custodian, IT Specialist, Fleet Coordinator, Account Trainee, Program Specialist
and the Derelict Abandoned Vehicle Coordinator now comes under KPD. As far as our
current vacancies, we have twelve (12) Police Officer vacancies, which is on continuous
recruitment. We have one (1) Program Specialist III. Right now for that position, we are
looking at combining duties under one (1) position to manage our public safety answering
point or our dispatch center as well as manage our records management system. That is
the new one that we acquired. We have one (1) vacant Crime Scene Specialist II position,
which we are in the process of filling. We have one (1) Emergency Services Dispatcher that
is on an ongoing recruitment. That is also grant funded. We have one (1) recently vacated
School Crossing Guard position and four (4) Traffic Monitors. Those descriptions are being
written up, and it is been unfunded for the first six (6) months of this fiscal year.
I know overtime is a big concern for everyone, so we wanted to briefly explain these
are the causes of overtime. These are also the things that we track every two (2) weeks to
see where we are expanding our funds and basically, overtime is collective bargaining. How
we spend it is investigations, report writing, holidays, working back-to-back shifts, or your
days off being canceled, covering for vacation leave, sick leave, workers compensation leave,
cellblock coverage, attending court during your off time, call-outs, trainings, special
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 65
projects, and administration duties and meetings. Again these are all the things that we
track bi-monthly.
This is what the breakdown is. So far this fiscal year, as you can see, personnel
shortage takes the vast majority of the overtime. It is almost twelve thousand (12,000)
hours in terms of personnel shortage. Holiday pay is the second largest. Each one I
address in the next slide, so I would not go into detail for each one until then.
Efforts to reduce overtime. We have an expedited hiring process. It takes roughly
six (6) months or so to hire someone. We have really revamped the entire hiring process.
New hires are trained and placed in cellblock. We use webinars and online training to
replace traditional training. We have strict mandates for overtime approval. Bi-monthly
evaluation of overtime expenditures. When we can, we change work schedules. As an
example, if someone has a meeting on a Saturday, we may give them off on a Friday and
then they work the Saturday at straight time. Special events sponsored are no longer in
KPD's budget. We used to spend over one hundred thousand dollars ($100,000) to do
operations in terms of parades and things like that. We no longer do that in our budget.
Analysis of causes of overtime and brainstorming of methods to reduce overtime
expenditures and minimal staffing on holidays. What we do is we look at our schedules and
we make sure to that the minimal staff is working. There are provisions in the collective
bargaining agreement that you cannot schedule the same person two (2) holidays in a row
off. So there are things like that that we have to follow. We have a Physical Readiness
Program to help improve health, well-being, and of course our ability to respond to calls.
We are also hoping that it will help reduce sick leave. We are in the process of reviewing
our report writing methodology and practices to see if there is a way that we can reduce the
amount of report writing time we spend. We are also exploring online reporting of some
incidents. Spillman, the new records management system that we have, they are currently
working on an online solution. So hopefully in the future, people will be able to report
various crimes or incidents online.
In this particular chart, what we wanted to display was our efforts to reduce
overtime. The orange bars are costs, money, from Fiscal Year 2013 to Fiscal Year 2016.
The blue line tracks hours. As you can see, we have done our best to try and reduce as
much as we can. In 2016, there is a slight uptick in overtime and we attribute that to
training. We had certain trainings that needed to be accomplished including field training
that pushed that up a little bit. Numbers-wise, how this looks, from Fiscal Year 2013 to
2014, thirteen thousand six hundred eighty-nine (13,689) hour reduction in overtime with a
cost-savings of a little over $538,000. From 2014-2015 another four thousand five hundred
(4,500) hour reduction with $210,000, and 2016, that is the slight uptick. It went up about
one thousand seven hundred (1,700) hours for $83,000. So a net for all of that is roughly a
$709,000 savings with sixteen thousand (16,000) hours of overtime savings or reduction.
Further options to reduction of overtime: decrease services, increase personnel, or
decrease our training. A few things to consider is that if we decrease services, potentially
less safe community, officers may not respond to certain types of cases such as minor traffic
collision, civil cases, and non-criminal matters. So far, we have been able to maintain the
level of service that we have all of these years, but again, these are the types of things that
we are taking a look at. Increase in personnel. This will reduce some overtime, of course
not all. It will be costly, and it will take time before the reductions of overtime
expenditures are realized. That is because it takes roughly six (6) months to hire, six (6)
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 66
months to train, and three (3) months of field training before the new officers are able to
help us reduce our overtime. If we decrease officer training, we increase liability for the
County, potentially negligent training, less professional personnel, reduced quality of
service, unprepared or ill-prepared personnel, and it may impact the accreditation status.
Well-trained officers reduce liability. Of course, they are more professional, we have less
complaints, better service provided to the community, and of course, prevent serious
incidents like we have seen on the mainland.
In closing, our mandate is to serve and protect. Our job is to keep the community
safe. Budget is critical to that end. We work really hard to provide the highest level of
services possible within the constraints we are given budget wise. Overtime is necessary
and it is part of policing, but we do all we can within the guidelines of collective bargaining
to be fiscally responsible and judicious in the use of our overtime. That is it in terms of the
presentation.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Thank you. Again, as every year, I think I
compliment you folks on the presentation, the budget overview. It is really clear. You
probably answered a lot of the questions we were going to ask anyway in this budget.
Thank you for your hard work in putting this together.
Mr. Contrades: Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Do we have any questions on the presentation? I
had a question on the physicals. I know it is a collective bargaining item, but we pay for
Police Officers to get a physical. What happens if they do not pass the physical?
Chief Perry: If they do not pass, then what we do is we create
an action plan to get them back to the standards that are set by the medical field. The
minimum standards that officers should be able to exhibit and display.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: So this is a health physical at the doctor. It is
not like a physical test as far as running or anything like that, right?
Chief Perry: This? No.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Just a doctor's physical?
Chief Perry: If you have high blood pressure or other issues,
or whatever else you may have.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: So if they do not pass, they just get put on a
program and they need to get tested again?
Chief Perry: Yes.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: In time?
Chief Perry: Basically, that is it.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 67
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Okay. I guess for me, I do not know. If they are
able to work throughout the year without the physical, I do not know if they need a doctor
to tell them whether they are healthy or unhealthy. It is not like they are going to go on
sick leave. Say they have high blood pressure, it is not like they are going to get pulled out
of the workforce until their blood pressure is better or something like that.
Mr. Contrades: It is part of the collective bargaining agreement,
so we are mandated to provide that every two (2) years.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Okay. Are there any questions on this? If not,
we can hit the budget and you may have questions that coincide with the presentation in
the budget also. So we will move on into the budget. We will look at the Chiefs Office. Are
there any questions on the Chiefs Office budget? I had a question on the Subsidized
Vehicle Program.
Mr. Contrades: Yes.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: It is probably in here somewhere, but I have it in
my notes. I think last time you folks provided a worksheet that showed how we are able to
save costs using the subsidized program versus leasing a vehicle.
Mr. Contrades: Yes.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: I meant to ask you before this meeting, but if you
can provide that again.
Mr. Contrades: Sure.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: The breakdown of why we are able to save more
costs using the Subsidized Vehicle Program rather than leasing a vehicle through its life.
Mr. Contrades: We can do that.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Okay. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: I have a question.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Council Chair Rapozo.
Council Chair Rapozo: You mentioned in the presentation the Traffic
Monitors. Last budget, I remember you talking about re-describing those positions. What
is the status on that?
Mr. Contrades: At this point, we are working on the job
descriptions and we also have to sit down with SHOPO to discuss it with them. They are
going to have an enforcement component to them, so we feel SHOPO would be the right
union to put that position under.
Council Chair Rapozo: Enforcement meaning what? What are they
going to be enforcing?
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 68
Mr. Contrades: Traffic in and around the schools. So traffic laws
in and around the schools. This idea concept came up when we are looking at the School
Crossing Guard positions.
Council Chair Rapozo: Right.
Mr. Contrades: It is extremely difficult to fill. Not very many
people want to work an hour in the morning and an hour in the afternoon, at the time, $10
an hour. When we took a look at what the law mandates that the Police Department is
supposed to do, it does not speak about School Crossing Guards. It talks about monitoring
traffic safety and that includes a component of enforcement. So our idea was to try these
four (4) positions, create them, they would monitor the schools, they would do enforcement,
but it would be a lower level pay, and they would also not carry a gun. It is something that
is new. No one has ever done it before, but we want to see if it will work in terms of making
the schools safer. Part of their duties is to monitor and report, and so they would also
report back to the Traffic Safety Section to let them know, "Hey, we have got a serious
speeding issue over here and I need more assistance." At that point, we could deploy
resources to that particular school. We also are looking at when school is not in session, we
could utilize them in our cellblock to again, offset overtime costs by providing services
there.
Council Chair Rapozo: So this is the four (4) positions in the budget,
Traffic Safety Monitor?
Mr. Contrades: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: PO4s?
Mr. Contrades: That is the lowest level for SHOPO.
Council Chair Rapozo: So they would be covered by SHOPO?
Mr. Contrades: That is what we wanted to work towards.
Council Chair Rapozo: That is $56,000 a year?
Mr. Contrades: Well, part of the plan was to hopefully pick up
people; age eighteen (18), nineteen (19) or twenty (20), that might want to become police
officers, and they have that ability to kind of...I mean we do the background checks, they
come in, and it could potentially be a stepping stone to becoming a police officer.
Council Chair Rapozo: What is the starting pay for Police right now?
$58,000?
Mr. Contrades: I thought it was $60,000.
Council Chair Rapozo: $60,000. I mean, $56,000 for a Traffic Monitor.
Who prices that? Who determines that? That is kind of high, I think, compared to a Traffic
Crossing Guard.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 69
Mr. Contrades: The duties would be different, of course. The
School Crossing Guards do none of that. They do not monitor traffic, they do not conduct
enforcement, and they of course are unable to work in our cellblock. Right now, our
cellblock is staffed mainly with Police Officers, and so this would be like a lower level officer
per se.
Council Chair Rapozo: Well, not much lower.
Mr. Contrades: That is true.
Council Chair Rapozo: $56,000 is just like a new Police Officer. When
do you expect this to be done?
Mr. Contrades: We are in the process of trying to finish up the
job descriptions, and we hope to meet with SHOPO in the next few weeks if we can get an
appointment with them.
Council Chair Rapozo: At what point do you think you are going to be
ready to hire? To be honest, we are just looking at where you can cut. If you do not need
the full year funding for the positions, then obviously, that is what we are going to take
because that is a significant amount of money.
Mr. Contrades: Our priority right now is to hire Police Officers,
and so I would say at least another six (6) months or so.
Council Chair Rapozo: If it is anything like United Public
Workers (UPW) and Public Works, these things take a long time, the consultation, and I
guess you have to come to some kind of agreement with the Union.
Mr. Contrades: So if the positions are short-funded, we would
work around that.
Council Chair Rapozo: I guess our task, we just had the discussion with
the Fire Department, is we want to be able to pass the budget that is not going to create an
impact to the departments. For me anyway, the best place do that is from vacant positions
because it is a vacant position, so it is just not going to impact you folks.
Mr. Contrades: I wish I could give you a precise timeline. We are
working on it and so we would like to move it forward. We do have a duty and
responsibility to each of the schools based on Hawai`i Revised Statutes (HRS). So we are
going as quickly as we can.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Brun.
Councilmember Brun: So you have four (4) of them, and how would that
be spread among all of the schools?
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 70
Mr. Contrades: They would have to rotate. They would rotate
amongst the different schools.
Councilmember Brun: Do we have that much of an issue at the schools?
Mr. Contrades: There are a few schools that do have issues. So
part of their responsibility would be to assess those different issues and report back. Then
if it requires additional resources, or Traffic Safety Unit, or Patrol Officers, would be tasked
to provide that. As an example, off the top of my head we get complaints all the time about
the area by Chiefess Kamakahelei Middle School, so we go periodically to address them.
These people, that would be their full-time job to do so. So what we see is we would end up
having safer school zones and better information on what is going on in each of those areas.
Councilmember Brun: Right now, we have nobody, not the people that
are on patrol because I think we are thin over there as it is. Do we not have anybody to go
for an hour in the morning?
Mr. Contrades: That is what our Patrol Officers and Traffic
Safety Units do.
Councilmember Brun: Yes, but we do not have anybody else within the
Department that can go over there for an hour before they come into the office?
Mr. Contrades: Those are the jobs of the Patrol and Traffic
Safety, is enforcement. We do have some staff that, on overtime, will go and do it because
there is grant funding to do so, so some personnel go out and do that as well. The primary
duties of Patrol and Traffic Safety is traffic enforcement. One (1) of the duties of Patrol is
primarily for traffic.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kawakami.
Councilmember Kawakami: Thank you, gentlemen. Do we still have the
School Resource Officers (SROs)?
Chief Perry: Yes we do.
Councilmember Kawakami: So they would just be described as a Police
Officer when we are going over salaries and positions?
Chief Perry: Yes.
Councilmember Kawakami: Okay. I was just double-checking. Is it the same
with Kaua`i Police Activities League (K-PAL) as well? They are just designated under the
description as Police Officer?
Chief Perry: Yes, with specific duties and responsibilities.
Councilmember Kawakami: Okay.
Chief Perry: With respect to the SRO program, we had a
letter of agreement dated back in 2001, I believe, that was signed by current Principal at
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 71
Kapa'a High School, the former Mayor, and Chief Freitas. I had wanted to use them, the
officers, partly as their responsibility to be responsible for the schools, yet to back up our
officers on the road in cases for example, when Council Chair Rapozo was on his way home
and he saw a Driving Under the Influence (DUI) driver. We had nobody available to
respond. So part of the strategy was to have our officers available instead of being in the
school, respond to the school if complaints were being made. I wanted to better utilize, be
more effective and efficient in their being on-duty by backing up our officers and making
sure nobody gets hurt, and also being able to address cases. But I was told that the
memorandum or the letter of agreement was still in effect. If we were to pull our officers
out of school, even temporarily, the liability will fall on the County if anything happens to
the children. What we are doing right now is revisiting that memorandum or that letter of
agreement to come up with a memorandum of understanding, so that the liability is not
strictly on the County itself. It is an ongoing process. It is frustrating on my part, not
being able to utilize our staffing as I believe we should be able to use. But nonetheless, we
are following the directive of the County Attorney and making sure that we get that done.
Councilmember Kawakami: So the School Resource Officer is primarily
dedicated for the high schools, right?
Chief Perry: Yes, sir.
Councilmember Kawakami: Would we be able to utilize the Traffic Safety
Monitor as the SRO?
Mr. Contrades: I believe if you give them SRO duties, you are
going to have to pay them at that level of pay. Appeal 7 as a regular officer. Appeal 9 is a
Specialized Officer, and School Resource Officers are PO9s.
Councilmember Kawakami: I am thinking there is a need in the middle
schools, an increasing need. Unfortunately, times are changing and I was hoping that
maybe these Traffic Safety Monitors would be able to monitor some of the middle schools
and not necessarily be designated as SROs, but just have it in their job descriptions. But I
guess that is something you folks can ponder. Thank you, Committee Chair Kaneshiro.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Are there any other questions? I know this is a
question Councilmember Yukimura asked earlier today, and it is a very valid question. In
our search to save on costs, are there any positions that could be possibly filled with
non-Police Officers? Our Police Officers are doing certain jobs that you do not necessarily
need a fully trained Police Officer that we put all of this time into training them to get them
trained up to be a Police Officer, and then maybe they are doing a desk job that somebody
else could be doing. Is there any opportunity for those kind of cost-savings? I could see a
huge cost-savings if there were opportunities like that.
Chief Perry: You mean to replace the officers? For example,
we have the Administrative Bureau that we have Officers that is a Captain that is doing
contracts and the like. Do you mean to replace that or in addition, have people to augment
their duties and responsibilities?
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: I would say, for me—and then I have
Councilmembers follow-up—for me, it would be because we are short-staffed in other areas
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 72
to have that person go and work in other areas and staff that position with a civil servant
that gets paid less to be in the office and doing contracts or grants.
Chief Perry: Off the top of my head, I cannot think of any.
But we could do some research on that.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: The positions that I have looked at where there
might be a possibility is the SRO, School Resource Officer, which could be a youth worker of
certain qualities and skills. I am aware that in the Maui Police Department though they do
not play the role of the School Resource Officers, they have similar function in wanting to
build positive relationships between the Police and the young people, and help the
community with problem youth. There, they are using like they used to have, social
workers be part of that program. I am aware that Maui has three (3) or four (4) social
workers and they work together with the Police Youth Division on that. My question is,
how do the private schools survive without a SRO? What is the real function? It is a State
function, too, that we are playing. I have heard several rationales for the SROs, and
nothing against the incredible officers who are working in SRO positions who are wonderful
in what they do, but we are paying Police salaries with a lot of police training. The
question is the role of the SRO, one would be to help keep peace on the campus, and two,
would be to establish positive relationships between young people and police, and three
would be to handle disciplinary problems. No?
Mr. Contrades: No.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
Mr. Contrades: The School Resource Officers do not handle
internal school disciplinary problems. They handle criminal investigations, and so
whenever there is a crime reported in the school, that is part of their responsibility.
Councilmember Yukimura: Right, and that is the whole issue about
criminalizing youth behavior in the schools, which there is kind of a thin line between
disciplinary problems and criminal behavior. In some other schools in the Country, it has
actually become quite a problem where the schools are too quick to criminalize certain
behaviors, so the kids are thrown into the criminal arena rather than school student
problem discipline. I have heard the principals and they love the SROs, but that is one (1)
area. The other area is K-PAL. There are pros and cons there, but we are doing youth
work. I am not saying sever the connection between the Police Department and the kids,
but is there a way to have a civilian coordinator who then creates all of these opportunities
for contact between the Police Department and the kids? Those were a couple of areas
where there was a question mark in my mind, and you folks can fill us in on how it looks to
you. You need people on the beat in the patrol who are doing police things that nobody else
can do, and so can you put people in these positions where you are using officers that might
be able to do something but at a lesser cost and without using highly skilled, expensively
trained Police Officers? That is the question.
Chief Perry: With respect to the SRO program, I can
understand. There are certain aspects of their duties and responsibilities that just their
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 73
presence deters crime and the rest. We have spoken with Mr. Arakaki and the presence of
a Police Officer on campus not only assures a safer environment for the children, but also
gives confidence to the parents when they bring their children to school that students can
go to a Police Officer. It is not only reporting crimes that the students may do, but it is also
students that are victims of crime in school that are afraid to go to anybody. We have had
cases where the children have gone to the Police Officer directly and explained that they
were sexually assaulted and the rest, and we have taken initiatives on that. So it is that
partnership that we are having with the DOE that is so important to us. Additionally, on
the mainland and you know for a fact that we have had incidences where active shooters
have taken place. Sandy Hook is one example, and they did not have proper security there.
I am not saying that it would be a preventative measure, but an officer being on scene there
may be able to stop an active shooter if it would to occur, heaven forbid, here on Kaua`i. So
it is those things though Police Officers are there, the intrinsic that perhaps you cannot put
a finger on the Officers being there that is so important. What is it? I think it is $360,000
for three (3) officers that we pay a year. We have had the discussions with Mr. Arakaki, the
Mayor, and Mauna Kea about how to better utilize our SRO program and still have a win-
win situation with the DOE? It is a State function, but we feel that it is a valuable position
in our community. But we can take a look at it.
Councilmember Yukimura: If the DOE feels it is so valuable, maybe they
need to find funding for it. It is easy to say we need this when they do not have to fund it.
Chief Perry: I agree.
Councilmember Yukimura: That is number one. Number two, I think there
are many campuses, other schools, where they have achieved the goals you are talking
about where parents feel comfortable and where sexual assaults has been reported. I do
not know that you really need a Police Officer there. The Sandy Hook thing, I am hoping
that there are quick response protocols that will get police on campus quickly, they have
lock down procedures, and all of that, which I hope should not turn on the twenty-four (24)
hours seven (7) days a week presence or whatever, eight (8) hour presence of a Police
Officer.
Chief Perry: These incidents of an active shooter occurs
within a minute or so. If we do not have somebody on campus, it may go south really fast. I
have been down that road before with respect to asking the DOE for funding if it is so
important, and the only thing that we have gotten that was in the last couple of years, was
training for our officers. Even then, reimbursement was eight (8) months late. So we have
gone and tried what we could. We are still in dialogue with the DOE, Mr. Arakaki, the
Mayor, and Mauna Kea. Hopefully somewhere along the line, we can resolve it. In terms of
the Police Department, we feel it is a valuable asset not only for the schools, but also for the
students, parents, and all of those involved.
Councilmember Yukimura: Chief, what do you call? Active shooter?
Chief Perry: Active shooter, yes, ma'am.
Councilmember Yukimura: That could happen anywhere on the island,
which by your reasoning, we should police everywhere. Do you know what I mean?
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 74
Chief Perry: No. They look for vulnerable targets, soft
targets, and schools are soft targets. That is what they are looking for.
Councilmember Yukimura: Alright.
Chief Perry: In regard to K-PAL, Deputy Contrades.
Mr. Contrades: As far as K-PAL, we have one (1) person that is
dedicated to that, a Police Officer.
Councilmember Yukimura: That is true.
Mr. Contrades: It is the Police Officer that makes the program. I
think it would be really difficult to have a civilian employee who does not have the same
level of knowledge, and also crime prevention knowledge. Yes, that could be trained, but it
is a crime prevention program. It is not just a feel-good, let us play sports kind of program.
Our now Captain, Mark Ozaki, has done a tremendous job with this program for many,
many years. But the program is successful because Police Officers are involved in it. So
that would not be an area, I think, that would be beneficial to change to a civilian staff.
Just so you know historically, we have done that in the past. Our Identification Technician
used to be a high paid Lieutenant. Today, we have a Civilian Crime Scene Specialist. So
we have done things like that to be more fiscally responsible and improve operations where
we saw it would benefit us. But in this particular case, with K-PAL, we do not believe that
the program would be better off with a civilian than it would a Police Officer.
Councilmember Yukimura: So you have the concept that your Technician
example is a very good one.
Mr. Contrades: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: I want to say that enforcement and crime
prevention are really different, especially when coming to youth and there are a lot of
civilians who are pretty good about knowing youth crime prevention, adolescent. You do
not have to be a Police Officer, but I do acknowledge the connection in having the Police
Department involved in sports and having contact with the kids because I feel that is
important. Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you, Chief. I know we have been down
this road with the questions that you just kind of referenced. I was wondering if you might
be able to provide an accounting of any services we provide under State jurisdiction. I am
looking for more static costs. I know we have met about it before, but anything from
investigations on State land or trails or State property, things like that. I am asking not
only of your organization, but others as well.
Mr. Contrades: At this point, I could not give you hard numbers.
Councilmember Chock: I understand.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 75
Mr. Contrades: But I can tell you that we spend a lot of our time
addressing State issues.
Councilmember Chock: I am just looking for a figure, an account of it,
not at this time of course, but in a response. Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Brun.
Councilmember Brun: For that too, anything that has to do with courts,
right?
Chief Perry: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: That is what I wanted to follow-up on.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Council Chair Rapozo.
Council Chair Rapozo: The judiciary, the sheriffs bringing over the
prisoners for the Police to book. I understand we have sent them bills and they have not
p aid.
Mr. Contrades: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is that still going on?
Mr. Contrades: To my knowledge, they no longer book with us
because they have their own booking system now. We pushed to make sure that happened
so they can book on their own. The problem that we continue to have with them is that
they want us to hold their prisoners.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay, and we do not want to hold their prisoners.
Mr. Contrades: No, we do not, but we do, because the alternative
is that they will not arrest and they will call us instead.
Council Chair Rapozo: That is why this is a good show, so the public
watching can hear live and in color that they would do something like that. That our
friendly sheriffs across the street at the courthouse would turn criminals loose because they
do not want to babysit them in the cellblock. That is what the media has to cover.
Mr. Contrades: They have their own holding facility so they
could do it.
Council Chair Rapozo: They have everything, and I am well-aware of
that. This has been going on for a long, long, long, time and I am frustrated. For a long,
long, long, time they walk the prisoners across and KPD in the goodness of their heart,
booked them and that is rubbish. They need do that and there comes the point where the
County is going to have to start telling the State, "Sorry." Like they are telling us today at
the Capitol with the TAT discussion, they are telling the Counties, "Sorry." We need to do
that same and say, "We cannot afford it anymore. You have a cellblock. You have Sheriffs
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 76
with badges and guns. You have a booking room, you folks have fingerprinting, and all of
that, use it because we are not going to do it." If they let these people go, we know. We can
track that. We can track it, and then we just put it in the paper. These were the people
that the Sheriffs let go because they did not want to watch them in the cellblock. I am at
that point already because I am tired of playing that game. We are over here absorbing
that cost and how much was that cost annually?
Mr. Contrades: I am not sure what the annual was, but I recall
one (1) bill was at least $5,000.
Council Chair Rapozo: One (1) bill, for one (1) month.
Mr. Contrades: I am not sure what the period of time was, but it
was not as long as a year
Council Chair Rapozo: That has to stop. I asked Mauna Kea to pursue
collections with that because they just refuse to pay. How can that be? Refuse to pay.
Mr. Contrades: We have had meetings with various law
enforcement State level agencies over the last...not recently, but previously three (3) years.
The same thing is told to us every time, that they have budgetary constraints and we tell
them, "So do we."
Council Chair Rapozo: Well, what if we cut your budget by $100,000 a
year in that area? Maybe that would change the attitude of the County towards the State.
I am not trying to be a hard person, but they have it, and that is okay and we have to
absorb it? That is not right. It is not right.
Mr. Contrades: It is hard for us because it is almost like we are
put in a hard place because if they decide not to do something, we are the default law
enforcement per se. It is our people, this is our community, and we have to do something.
That is how we feel about it.
Council Chair Rapozo: You see, Chief, it is their responsibility.
Mr. Contrades: Right. I agree.
Council Chair Rapozo: It is their community.
Mr. Contrades: I agree.
Council Chair Rapozo: It is their system, and we cannot save the world
from everybody. They need to be made aware, the public needs to be made aware that they
are derelict in their duty if they let a prisoner go because they do not want to sit in a
cellblock at the courthouse because they have budgetary restraints. We have, too.
Mr. Contrades: I agree.
Council Chair Rapozo: It is very serious this year. We just cannot be
the State's safety net. I understand because it is very tough to watch a bad person go free.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 77
Mr. Contrades: Right.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is it okay for them to let them walk? Do you
what I am saying?
Mr. Contrades: In our organization, it would not be.
Council Chair Rapozo: Right, you do not do that. But for them, it is
okay, because the County is the safety net for that particular service, and that is not right.
I do not know how we get that message across to Governor Ige. He is coming next week I
think. Maybe we should just bring it up to him at the school. That is how passionate I am
about this because it is wrong. They use the threat that if you do not take them, we are just
going to let them loose. Really? Get that person's name and badge number and let the
public of Kaua`i know what they are doing. It is wrong and we, the County, are going to
have to put our foot down and say, "We cannot do it. We simply cannot do it." So we will
pursue however we can on our level. I do not know how, but we have got to send that
message loud and clear to whoever, the judiciary people, and say that practice is going to
stop. If they want to let people go, then they are going to have to deal with the
consequence.
Chief Perry: With the regard to the State costs and the
services we provide, do you want us to include traffic enforcement on State highways?
Council Chair Rapozo: I think that would be a stretch.
Chief Perry: Okay.
Council Chair Rapozo: I think that...
Chief Perry: None of the moneys come to us that is why, but
we expend our resources in that area.
Council Chair Rapozo: I mean, I think that should be added in a
separate line item, maybe, just so that we know.
Mr. Contrades: It is the misconception in the community that
when we give traffic citations, that those moneys come to the County and they do not. They
go to the State. The Police Department does not get any of the moneys as far as I am aware.
Chief Perry: And neither do the officers get promoted.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Follow-up to Council Chair Rapozo's question.
These officers who appear to be playing games with us in terms of the cellblock and the
arrests, whose Division are they under? Is that the Sheriff's Office?
Mr. Contrades: The Sheriff's Office, yes.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 78
Councilmember Yukimura: And the Sheriffs Office is under the judiciary?
Mr. Contrades: Public safety.
Councilmember Yukimura: So it is not the judiciary. It is public safety.
Okay, because we probably should write to the superiors. I do not know if they know it is
happening or what, but we should give them a chance to correct their process. We can find
that out. Can we find out who is in charge of public safety on Kaua`i? The Public Safety
Department? Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Are there any further questions?
Councilmember Yukimura: Where are we?
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: We are on the Chiefs Office.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. I have questions.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: If you have already covered it, I will find out
later. Your electricity costs look like they are rising and we have been told that generally,
our County's electricity costs are lower. I was looking at page 101, just the overall.
Mr. Contrades: We are asking for an increase in that area
because we are now responsibile for the utilities at Kapa'a Armory.
Councilmember Yukimura: Oh, yes, that is right. I remember reading that.
So, to that extent, the armory is raising your bill?
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: They shared the cost with DOD, I believe, before.
Mr. Contrades: Yes.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: But now DOD is out of the building. Police has
the whole building, so we get the whole bill for the electric.
Councilmember Yukimura: Are you using the whole building?
Mr. Contrades: The majority of it. There is a portion that Fire
uses for Ocean Safety.
Councilmember Yukimura: Which is storage?
Mr. Contrades: No, I believe they use it as an office. I believe
personnel. I am not sure how much, but I believe personnel works there.
Councilmember Yukimura: So is there any effort to make sure that there is
wise electrical use practices whether it is turning off computers when you go home from
work or turning off lights?
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 79
Mr. Contrades: As far as the Kapa'a Armory, it is difficult to do.
We are a twenty-four (24) hour seven (7) days a week operation, and so the officers are
constantly in and out of the station.
Councilmember Yukimura: The whole building?
Mr. Contrades: We have a portion of it. So the lights are used in
the portion that we use and when we use the other portions. The lights are not turned on
twenty-four (24) hours seven (7) days a week in the entire building. We just have a section
of it.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Alright. Do you use generators or
anything that is really a big draw? It is just that it is a big building?
Mr. Contrades: We have no generators there.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Generators would be generating that, not
taking. No, it would draw on the electricity. Okay.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: We would see an increase in our gasoline bill.
Councilmember Yukimura: Right.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Brun.
Councilmember Brun: Police Fleet Services Coordinator, is that the
mechanic?
Mr. Contrades: Well, he is a certified mechanic, but that is the
person that takes care of basic repairs on our vehicles and transporting our vehicles to and
from the baseyard.
Councilmember Brun: He is not in the mechanic shop?
Mr. Contrades: No, the Fleet Coordinator is with us.
Councilmember Brun: Do you folks fund the mechanic in the mechanics
shop?
Mr. Contrades: I do not believe that is in our budget, but there
are supposed to be mechanics for us there.
Councilmember Brun: Okay.
Mr. Contrades: One (1).
Councilmember Brun: Do you think one (1) is enough?
Mr. Contrades: No, not at all.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 80
Councilmember Brun: Better learn how to use a wrench.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Are there any further questions for the Chief's
Office budget?
Councilmember Yukimura: I presume you folks covered overtime.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Yes, there was a lengthy presentation on
overtime. They went over a PowerPoint presentation on it.
Council Chair Rapozo: We did not cover the line items though.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: We did not look at the individual line items, but
they provided a presentation on the ways they were trying to cut overtime.
Councilmember Yukimura: I had a question about page 109 on the
subsidized vehicles. So we are transitioning, right, to subsidized vehicles?
Mr. Contrades: We have a plan to do so over the next several
years as long as it is, of course, supported by the Administration and Council. We want to
outfit all Sergeants and above in a subsidized vehicle. We were asked to provide the cost-
savings for that, and so we will provide that document. But on the other side of that is the
fact that with subsidized vehicles, in disaster response and availability, it is a lot better.
We are more prepared for disasters because the officers have their cars right there. There
is no need to travel into a station for your vehicle. Your work car is with you. It is also a
big help in terms of the shop. Those are x amount of vehicles less that that the shop has to
deal with because the officers are responsible for the maintenance of it. So we see it is a
very good and viable program to continue moving forward with.
Councilmember Yukimura: With the subsidized vehicle agreements that you
must make with the Police Officers, the work has priority. So if it is needed, it is there with
the officers, always.
Mr. Contrades: That is their vehicle, yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: And whenever the vehicles are needed, I am just
thinking that the family might need the car, too.
Mr. Contrades: Absolutely, I see what you are saying. If they are
called into work, they have to use their vehicle.
Councilmember Yukimura: I see. Okay.
Council Chair Rapozo: I have one (1) question.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Council Chair Rapozo.
Council Chair Rapozo: On the overtime, all of the overtime comes out of
your office now, right?
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 81
Chief Perry: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: I am looking at our statistics to see the prior
years, and in the regular overtime in Fiscal Year 2014 was $2,200,000, Fiscal Year 2015
was $1,900,000, Fiscal Year 2016 was $2,200,000, Fiscal Year 2017 was $1,700,000, and it
looks like Fiscal Year 2018 is the same. So it looks like there was a reduction of about
$500,000 between Fiscal Years 2016 and 2017. How is that working out for you folks? Are
you folks going to run out of money this year?
Mr. Contrades: We are going to be close.
Chief Perry: We are going to be close, yes.
Mr. Contrades: We will be using of course, the unexpended
salaries. Right now, we are projecting a return of about $150,000 or so overall, I think, for
our budget.
Council Chair Rapozo: I guess, how short are you going to be in
overtime? Obviously you are transferring funds from other accounts. How much is your
overtime or how much are you projecting the overtime to be? The regular overtime. This is
just that one (1) line, the regular overtime.
Mr. Contrades: $2,600,000 is what we are projecting.
Council Chair Rapozo: $2,600,000?
Mr. Contrades: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: And the budgeted amount is $1,700,000. So
about $900,000 short budgeted this year.
Mr. Contrades: Yes. Last year, there was a short. I believe we
have new trainers, and so we will no longer need overtime for those trainers. But I think a
lot of that has to do with the fact we are not full. So we have a lot of unexpended salaries
because currently we have twelve (12) vacancies. I think if we were full, that number
would be a little closer to reality, but we have been trying really hard to do so.
Council Chair Rapozo: So $1,700,000 would work if you were fully
staffed, you think?
Mr. Contrades: It would probably still be tight. It just depends
on what happens. Keep in mind, we have not had a major incident like a tsunami warning
or anything like that. I use tsunami as an example because if there is a warning and we
have to do an evacuation, and I remember a period of time where we did it in couple of
times in a year or every year in a row, you are talking about forty (40) to fifty (50) personnel
that has to be deployed to close the roads down. So if we have something major like that, it
will throw our overtime budget out of whack.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 82
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes. We are just kind of banking on a normal
year, operational.
Mr. Contrades: Right.
Council Chair Rapozo: And so $1,700,000, still close to $1,000,000 under
what you are probably going to use?
Mr. Contrades: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Brun.
Councilmember Brun: With the $1,700,000 budgeted, we are going to
spend about $2,600,000 in overtime, but we are still saving on the regular salaries. I think
in here, it is $14,695,000. So we are still going to spend less than that on regular salaries if
you are borrowing money from there?
Mr. Contrades: Yes, all of the unexpended...
Councilmember Brun: Right now, you are short on people. So this
$14,000,000 is if you were fully staffed, right?
Mr. Contrades: Yes.
Councilmember Brun: So you are not spending that $14,695,000 plus
$2,600,000?
Mr. Contrades: Right.
Councilmember Brun: Okay. Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura, did you have a
follow-up on this also?
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. It occurred to me that if we are putting
aside a reserve, and I guess this would go to the reserve policy, that if we have a very
unusual year related to potential disasters, that would be a legitimate reserve expense. I
do not know. I do not have any more follow-up, but I have some other questions.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: I think we would have to relook at the reserve
policy again. I think reserve policy specifies the type of event that needs to happen for us to
pull.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: If it is just an evacuation, I do not think it
qualifies as something that we could pull money out of the reserve for. We would still have
to pay it back anyway. Council Chair Rapozo.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 83
Council Chair Rapozo: I do not know about...are we talking about a
disaster that would trigger an emergency declaration? I do not know if that would qualify
for reimbursement or federal money. I am not sure that qualifies. But I am just trying to
figure out what the baseline is. Obviously, if something like that happens, it happens. We
will obviously get the money from someplace. Just on a regular baseline, what is the real
number that you folks need, all the departments need, and not have to transfer money from
the unexpended salaries because as you transfer moneys from unexpended salaries, you
kind of mess up that position and then you have to get money from someplace else to fill the
positions if you want to hire. What is that number? What is the real number and kind of
working with that number and making the adjustments at that point?
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: I think we find that baseline and you will be able
to explain any variances in it if we have a tsunami warning or something where you can
say, "We had to deploy forty (40) people at so many hours, and that is a bump in the
overtime for that reason." Other than that, this is where we are on a smoother basis.
Mr. Contrades: If I may? One (1) of the difficulties, and I use the
disaster as a majority incident because that could really skew our overtime. But depending
upon the types of crimes that are reported, or if you had a major burglary series, or several
homicides, those are the kind of things that could actually affect us as well. Sometimes
those are of course difficult to anticipate, but I guess what I am trying to say is there is a
myriad of reasons why the overtime could go up and down. But yes, you are correct. We are
on the lower end of perhaps what it should be.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Are there any further questions for the Chief's
Office?
Councilmember Yukimura: Can I just commend you for your major
achievements this year, the accreditation, your dispatch installation, and also for the
training program.
Mr. Contrades: Thank you.
Councilmember Yukimura: It is very innovative and thoughtful program. So
I just wanted to congratulate the leadership office.
Mr. Contrades: Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Are there any further questions? If not we will
move on to Administrative and Technical Bureau (ATB). It starts on page 160 for us.
Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: It is probably a small question, but we moved the
towing and derelict vehicles management, or implementation to you folks. That is in there
to the tune of$95,000. Is it working well?
Mr. Contrades: It is working very well. The person we hired is
doing an excellent job.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 84
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Well, good. That was a good move. I am
glad to hear that.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Brun.
Councilmember Brun: Are abandoned/derelict vehicles still being
brought to Puhi Metals?
Mr. Contrades: I believe so.
Councilmember Brun: So it is costing us, right?
Mr. Contrades: Yes.
Councilmember Brun: Are we trying to recover those funds from the
owners of the vehicles?
Mr. Contrades: I do not believe so.
Councilmember Brun: And we were not doing that before?
Mr. Contrades: No.
Councilmember Brun: Do we have any plans? Would it cost us too
much to get that money back?
Mr. Contrades: I will let you speak to the Chief who manages
that aspect of it.
ROBERT GAUSEPOHL, Assistant Chief: Good afternoon. Robert
Gausepohl, for the record. Yes we do as part of the process, try to recover towing fee and
storage fees.
Councilmember Brun: You folks do?
Mr. Gausepohl: Yes.
Councilmember Brun: Okay.
Mr. Gausepohl: For the person that wants to get their vehicle
back, and of course a lot of them are in the true sense abandoned, they are not going to pick
them up. We send out notification that their vehicle was towed, and they have to bring the
letter down and pay the storage fees and towing fees. So we are trying to recover that, but
it is not very successful because most people do not care about the vehicles that are getting
towed.
Councilmember Brun: So there is nothing that we can do to make
sure...so what they are doing right now is like a free disposal fee? I just put my car on the
side of the road and you take them. "Boom, I do not want it."
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 85
Mr. Gausepohl: No, because they get cited a pretty hefty citation
and they are usually expired as well. So they will put a stopper on their license. So when
they go to renew their license, they are going to have to pay all these back fees. It is by no
means free. It is not a good strategy if you want to get rid of your car to do that.
Councilmember Brun: But we are already putting on the fees, so why do
we not add the towing fees also to their stop fee because right now, only what they have is
the tickets, which that goes to the State, right?
Mr. Gausepohl: Yes.
Councilmember Brun: And the County is paying for the towing fee.
Mr. Gausepohl: Yes.
Councilmember Brun: So we are losing money all the way around.
Mr. Gausepohl: Yes.
Councilmember Brun: So why do we not add that to their bill so they
cannot get their license, just add our part in?
Mr. Gausepohl: I think that is something that we could talk to
the County Attorney about.
Councilmember Brun: Okay.
Mr. Gausepohl: I do not think legislation is in place to allow us to
do that at this point.
Councilmember Brun: Okay.
Mr. Gausepohl: It is just another one of many situations like that
we are in.
Councilmember Brun: We will try to get that money back somehow.
Mr. Gausepohl: Yes.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: How many of those incidents is the vehicle
ownership identifiable?
Mr. Gausepohl: I do not have that exact number for you.
Councilmember Yukimura: Is it more or less...I mean, because I am thinking
if somebody really wants to abandon it and push off their costs without penalty, they would
remove the identifying numbers. I have heard it is done, but I just wanted to know how
frequently.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 86
Mr. Gausepohl: I do not think you can...unless you are a
mechanic and you know where every single vehicle identification number (VIN) on that car
is...
Councilmember Yukimura: You cannot?
Mr. Gausepohl: ...there are some that are hidden and tucked
away in difficult places to get to.
Councilmember Yukimura: But somebody could say, oh, well no...I guess
they would know the last owner of the vehicle number, except that there could have been
an informal sale, but you have to register it somehow.
Mr. Gausepohl: Unfortunately, we have situations like that
where people come to us later and say that there is say stopper on their license and they
sold that vehicle to somebody else, and they did not follow through on the paperwork. But
we have to do our job, too.
Councilmember Yukimura: Right. Well, I think it was in Oregon where they
put a disposal fee on a brand new car when it was sold and it follows the ownership so that
when the last owner shows that they properly disposed of the car, they get a refund.
Mr. Gausepohl: That is a great idea.
Councilmember Yukimura: But that means everybody has to pay. It was an
intriguing idea for me.
Mr. Gausepohl: I think the problem we have here is that on the
mainland, even if your car is a piece of junk and you have to tow it to a scrapyard, they give
you $300 to $500 just for the scrap. We are on the other end where we are paying somebody
to get rid of it. I think that is part of our dilemma.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, being in the middle of an ocean.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: I think right now, if people want to get rid of the
car, they can bring it to Puhi Metals and recycle it for free rather than dumping it on the
side of the road.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. But if it is not operable, they have to pay a
towing charge.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Again, it is free if they bring it there. I would
encourage anybody that wants to get rid of their vehicles to just bring it there. Are there
any other questions? Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: In our repair and maintenance equipment on
page 118, you have $159,000, $129,000 is Officer Safety Program Body-Worn Cameras. Oh,
this is the actual cost of the cameras.
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 87
Mr. Contrades: No, that is the agreement that we have to pay for
every year. So it is the cost of storage and replacement cameras. That is it every year. It is
$129,000 and we have unlimited storage, which is...
Councilmember Yukimura: Oh, this is the information storage?
Mr. Contrades: It is the whole program. There is a whole
program outlined. In two (2) years, we get new cameras. In four (4) years, we get new
Tasers, and this is just an example. I do not know what the exact is, but it is part of that
whole program and included in that is data storage, which is unlimited.
Councilmember Yukimura: So you are saying that they have certain
requirements about how you treat the body cameras when we get it from them and that is
IT...anyway, this is the cost of us abiding by the agreement?
Mr. Contrades: It is part of contract, yes. This is the cost of the
program.
Councilmember Yukimura: Can you just tell me what costs they are? I am
just curious.
Mr. Contrades: We entered into a contract with them a few years
ago.
Mr. Gausepohl: Basically, all of the video needs to be downloaded
or uploaded to Evidence.com and those fees are enormous. That is a huge amount of data
that they are storing for us in a secured system, still allowing us access to it. It also covers
any damage to the cameras or accessories and also covers the CEW, the Conductive Electric
Weapon, the Taser weapon itself. So all of that is encompassed into one (1) line item at this
price, annually. We did a lot of shopping around and just the video storage, it is a bargain
for the amount of data that we are storing. Then like the Chief said, two and a half (2.5)
and five (5) years, we get camera upgrades for free. That is built into the system. I
understand that there is an Exon Flex 2 that is an upgrade from the current one, and the
CEWs are replaced at five (5) years. It is a real comprehensive program and it gives us a
consistent annual line item for the length of the contract.
Councilmember Yukimura: And the information storage is unlimited?
Mr. Gausepohl: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Is the retrievability user-friendly or easy?
Mr. Gausepohl: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Are our officers wearing it throughout
their beat or their daily time?
Mr. Gausepohl: Yes, throughout their shift. There is a very
thoughtful policy in place on when they are supposed to turn it on to not...
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 88
Councilmember Yukimura: Use it unnecessarily?
Mr. Gausepohl: Exactly, or invade anybody's privacy, but at same
time, capture valuable evidence for criminal acts and to defend our officers if they are
falsely accused.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Alright. Have we had any chance to use
the information yet?
Mr. Gausepohl: It is used all the time, especially for...
Councilmember Yukimura: For cases?
Mr. Gausepohl: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: In court?
Mr. Gausepohl: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Excellent. Thank you.
Mr. Gausepohl: Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Are there any further questions?
Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Do we have an Investigations Division?
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Yes, that is next.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay, than I will save my question for then.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Okay. If there are no other questions for
Administrative and Technical Bureau, we will move on. Investigative Services Bureau
(ISB). Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Congratulations. I am just thinking just recently
all of the arrests you have made on the burglaries and thefts.
BRYSON PONCE, Assistant Chief: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Very good.
Mr. Ponce: Thank you.
Councilmember Yukimura: My question is on your budget narrative page 3
where you say in the first month of Fiscal Year August 2016, Detective Morita investigated
and closed two (2) promoting minor produced images, second degree cases, and three (3)
promoting child abuse first degree cases. When you say "closed," I just did not know what
that meant. Did it mean that you determined the offender, who the offender was, brought
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 89
it to court and brought it to successful prosecution, which I understand is not your kuleana
entirely?
Mr. Ponce: Yes, that is what it means. He identified a
suspect, arrested that person, and sent the case to the Office of the Prosecuting Attorney.
Councilmember Yukimura: You said it much better than me, identified the
suspect, arrested them, and then sent them on to the Prosecutor.
Mr. Ponce: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Then, that is excellent work, too.
Mr. Ponce: Thank you.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you very much.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Are there any other questions? There was not
much change in the budget. If there are no other questions, we will move on. We will move
on to Patrol, page 129. Are there any questions for Patrol? I had a question just on the new
computer equipment you folks are getting, the smart board. Is that for the office or...
Mr. Contrades: That is for the command vehicle.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Oh, the actual command vehicle.
Mr. Contrades: Yes.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Which it says right here. Okay, got it.
Councilmember Brun.
Councilmember Brun: Coach Asher, do the Raiders still play in the
NFL? I am just joking.
Councilmember Yukimura: Very relevant.
Council Chair Rapozo: When you live in the Westside (inaudible).
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Check his registration and safety check. Are
there any questions for Patrol?
Councilmember Brun: He is always picking on me about my Cowboys.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: We just have Patrol, then we have the Criminal
Assets Forfeiture Fund, and that is it. If there is no questions for Patrol, we will move on to
the Criminal Asset Forfeiture Fund.
Councilmember Yukimura: Is that page 300?
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 90
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Yes, page 300. With just the two (2) items, Chief,
if you can explain what the two (2) items are for. It just says "training" and the other is
"public safety," but if you have any further description on it.
Mr. Contrades: As far as the training, we wanted to put funds
there available for us for any type of unexpected training opportunity. What happens a lot
of times is the outer islands will host the training and notify us during the Fiscal Year. It
is not something that we can plan for and so we would like to utilize Criminal Asset
Forfeiture Funds in order to attend those types of trainings. The $20,000 is to purchase an
unmarked vehicle for Narcotics for our Vice Section. They have some pretty old vehicles
that need to be replaced.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Are there any further questions on these two (2)
items? That is our last item. Councilmember Yukimura, if you have another question that
you are dying to ask?
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you.
Councilmember Kawakami: Make it an hour long question.
Councilmember Yukimura: I do not think I have had too many of those, have
I?
Council Chair Rapozo: Not yet.
Councilmember Kawakami: As long as your other half is not here. You are
the two (2) most talkative Councilmembers.
Councilmember Yukimura: I think the two (2) of us are here.
Councilmember Brun: Committee Chair Kaneshiro, you are number
one.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: This meeting is going downhill very fast.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, let us get back to the real questions.
Council Chair Rapozo: Actually, let us go home.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Last question.
Councilmember Yukimura: Actually, in your Narcotics enforcement you are
replacing a K-9 drug dog due to retirement. Does that mean we do not have a drug dog
anymore?
Mr. Contrades: We do.
Councilmember Yukimura: Oh, okay. Is that retirement of the handler, or
retirement of the dog, or both?
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 91
Mr. Contrades: Retirement of the dog.
Councilmember Yukimura: Oh, okay. Excellent on your succession planner
and on working on minimizing of road closure times. Overall, let me see, your biennial
physical...I think you might have said that. Your biennial physicals are according to
Article 34, that is the Collective Bargaining Agreement?
Mr. Contrades: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay, and do you know what your per vehicle
maintenance cost is on the average?
Mr. Contrades: That is not something I could provide right now.
If you need me to get that for you, I can.
Councilmember Yukimura: The question is stimulated by you saying that
the maintenance shop will have ten (10) less vehicles to maintain with the reduction in
parts and supplies. I was just wondering what kind of cost reduction we are looking at.
Can you get that?
Mr. Contrades: We can try.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay, if you could. Then on your evidence
building, you are suggesting a $100,000 metal evidence building, which you say will avoid
having to call Evidence Custodians out on overtime, I think. Is that it?
Mr. Contrades: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: And you are saying that the Officer would secure
the evidence in the proposed building, lock it, and have the only available key other than
the Evidence Custodians. But only one (1) officer is going to put evidence in?
Mr. Contrades: That is part of chain of custody. With the
evidence building, there would be separate days. When you seize a vehicle, the officer has
to testify to the fact that nobody entered that vehicle and that the evidence was not
disturbed. So with this building, we will be able to do that. The officer would lock it in
there and there would be one (1) person responsible for chain of custody.
Councilmember Yukimura: So do other officers have access to the evidence
building and the evidence that is specific to another officer?
Mr. Contrades: We limit that. Very few people have access, but
right now when we are searching a vehicle in the warehouse, the Evidence Custodian has to
be called out because they have to be there to testify that none of the other evidence was
disturbed.
Councilmember Yukimura: But if you have this system where an officer can
just place it in the building until the evidence, that will be satisfactory to the court that
there has been...
March 31, 2017
Fire Department and Police Department
Page 92
Mr. Contrades: Yes, that is how it is done in other jurisdictions.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Very good. I believe that was all my
questions.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Perfect because I think we have two (2) minutes
left before we would have had to take a caption break.
Councilmember Yukimura: See, my questions were not that long.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Thank you, again, Councilmembers, for being
prepared with answers. I think that moves everything along. Thank you for being
prepared. Councilmembers, please prepare the questions that the Administration needs to
answer. With that, thank you again. We will take a recess. I would like to recess the
Departmental Budget Reviews. We will reconvene 9:00 a.m. on Monday, April 3, 2017
where we will have discussions on Revenue, Real Property Tax, charges and fees, as well as
hear from the Office of Economic Development.
There being no objections, the Committee recessed at 3:05 p.m.