HomeMy WebLinkAboutKHPRC062316MINUTESKAUA`I COUNTY HISTORIC PRESERVATION REVIEW COMMISSION
LYhu`e Civic Center, Mo`ikeha Building, Meeting Room 2A/213
MINUTES
A regular meeting of the Kauai County Historic Preservation Commission (KHPRC) was held on
June 23, 2016 in the Ldru`e Civic Center, Mo`ikeha Building, Meeting Room 2A/2B.
The following Commissioners were present: Chairperson Anne Schneider, Victoria Wichman,
Charlotte Hoomanawanui, Deatri Nakea, Stephen Long, Pat Griffin, Althea Arinaga, and Larry
Chaffin Jr. (entered at 3:09 p.m.).
The following Commissioner was absent: David Helder.
The following staff members were present: Planning Department — Kaaina Hull, Leslie
Takasaki, Myles Hironaka; Deputy County Attorney Jodi Higuchi Sayegusa; Office of Boards
and Commissions — Administrator Jay Furfaro (left at 4:26 p.m), Commission Support Clerk
Darcie Agaran,
CALL TO ORDER
The meeting was called to order at 3:03 p.m.
Deputy Planning Director Kaaina Hull: Good morning, Chair and members of the Commission.
Roll call. (Laughter)
Ms. Schneider: Roll call.
Mr. Hull: Commissioner Arinaga?
Ms. Arinaga: Here.
Mr. Hull: Commissioner Chaffin? Commissioner Griffin?
Ms. Griffin: Here.
Mr. Hull: Commissioner Helder? Commissioner Hoomanawanui?
Ms. Hoomanawanui: Here.
Mr. Hull: Commissioner Long?
Mr. Long: Here.
.Hull:
Commissioner Nakea?
June 23, 20I6 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
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Ms. Nakea: Here,
Mr. Hull: Commissioner Schneider?
Ms. Schneider: Here.
Or. Hull: Commissioner Wichman?
Ms. Wichman: Here.
Mr. Hull: We have a quorum, Chair.
APPROVAL OF TILE AGENDA
Mr. Hull: Next agenda item is Approval of the Agenda.
Ms. Schneider: Are there any additions or changes?
Mr. Hull: The Department doesn't have any recommendations.
Ms. Griffin: I move to approve.
Ms. Arinaea: I second.
Ms. Schneider: All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote) Motion carries TO,
APPROVAL OF THE MAY 26, 2016 MEETING MINUTES
Or. Hull: Next is Approval of the May 26, 2016 Meeting Minutes.
Ms. Nakea: I move that we approve the minutes for May 26th,
Ms. Griffin: Second.
Ms. Schneider: All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote) Motion carries 7:0.
PUBLIC COMMENT
Or.
Hull: Agenda Item D. This is Public Comment. For the public's notification, at this time,
public testimony can be taken for any agenda item in the beginning of the meeting or you can wait
for your turn during the specific agenda item. Is there any member of the public that would like
to testify on any of the agenda items at this point? Seeing none.
June 23, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 3
COMMUNICATIONS
Mr. Hull: There are no communications.
UNFINISHED BUSINESS
Re: Discussion on the status of the Certified Local Government.
Status of the National and State Register Nomination of the Hanapepe Bridge.
Mr. Hull: Moving on to Unfinished Business. Discussion on the status of the Certified Local
Government, status of the National and State Register nomination of the Hanapepe Bridge. The
drafted Certified Local Government FYI grant application for the nomination of the Hanapepe
Bridge to the State of Hawaii and National Register of Historic Places.
So after last Commission meeting, the Commission made a request that the Department draft up
an application for CLG funds to hire a consultant to draft the nomination form and papers for the
Hanapepe Bridge, which is attached to the agenda for your review and comment.
Ms. Schneider: Is the applicant here?
Mr. Hull: Well, no, there is no applicant for the nomination. Essentially, there was a desire by the
Commission to apply for CLG funds for the Hanapepe Bridge to be nominated to the State or
National Registry. So you have, in your receipt, the application form, which the Department
drafted up, and if you have any discussion or would like to take action on that CLG... The
Department wouldn't send the application form up on its own. It would wait for your approval, if
that's the wishes of this Commission, to submit the application for CLG funds to hire a consultant
for nomination.
Ms. Schneider: Commissioners? Pat.
Ms. Griffin: I think that the application, which has a total project cost of $3,200 is minimal. We
ask ... the grant amount is for $2,000 and it speaks directly to what the Commission has been
discussing about encouraging and assisting sites on the National Register, which is particularly
important for public sites. So I think it looks great, and thanks to the Staff who put it together.
Ms. Schneider: Do we have a recommendation?
Ms. Griffin: I move that we accept it as written and request that the grant application be sent on
to SHPD.
Ms. Schneider: Do we have a second?
Ms. Arinaga: I second.
June 23, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
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Ms. Schneider: Any discussion?
Mr. Hull: At this point, you may also want to see if there are any members of the public before...
Ms. Schneider: Is there anybody from the public that would like to speak on this application?
Seeing no one.
Mr. Hull: Okay.
Ms. Schneider: Can we vote?
Mr. Hull: Yeah. If you have no further discussion, you can take the vote.
Ms. Schneider: All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote) Anybody opposed? (None) Motion passes
7:0.
Mr. Hull: So for the Commission's clarification, too, so the way that the County of Kauai has to
deal with grant applications is it has to be reviewed and approved by the County Council first. So
it will be submitted to the County Council and, pending their approval, we'll forward it on to
SHPD.
Ms. Griffin: Do you know the timeframe for forwarding it to the State?
Mr. Hull: Essentially, we could do it concurrently. I'll have to double-check with the Council
Services, but...
Mr. Chaffin Jr. entered the meeting at 3:09 p.m.
Ms. Griffin: I'm asking about the grant deadline.
Mr. Hull: I believe we have enough time, but I'll have to double-check.
Re: Discussion on the status of the Certified Local Government.
Certified Local Government FY2016 Grant Application for the nomination of the
Kauai War Memorial Convention Hall to the State of Hawaii and National Registers
of Historic Places.
Mr. Hull: The next agenda item is Certified Local Government... oh, excuse me...G.l.b. Certified
Local Government FY2016 grant application for the nomination of the Kauai War Memorial
Convention Hall to the State of Hawaii and National Registers of Historic Places. A letter from
Lenny Rapozo, Director of Department of Parks and Recreation, County of Kauai, requesting that
the KHPRC delay submission of this application to allow the Department of Parks and Recreation
to amend its current Exemption List for the Hawaii Revised Statutes (HRS) Section 343.
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So to give some background on what that essentially is, is two (2) months ago, Inc KHPRC took
action to apply for CLG funds, or Certified Local Government funds, to hire a consultant to draft
up the nomination papers for the Kauai War Memorial Convention Hall to be put on the State
and/or National Registry. The way that was approved was for the Department to work with the
various agencies and do the necessary, essentially, footwork to get the application over. In
discussing and working out with Department of Parks and Recreation, we became aware of an
issue.
To somewhat step back, there is a lot of concern in the public that going on the National or State
Registry creates all types of barriers or bureaucratic loopholes or obstacles for maintaining or
for... maintaining the site or doing other changes, and most of that, quite frankly, is untrue. Under
preservation law, there are ways in which they can be maintained. With the exception, I'll say, of
Hawaii and not because of preservation law, per se, but because if you're on the National or State
Registry, you are automatically ... any change in use or use automatically requires, what's referred
to as, an environmental review, and that will entail either an Environmental Assessment or an
Environmental Impact Statement. An Environmental Assessment can cost anywhere from $10,000
to $30,000 to $50,000 and take up to six (6) months to complete that assessment. An
Environmental Impact Statement can cost anywhere from $75,000 to $0.25 million and can take,
you know, one (1) or two (2) years to complete these things, so that is fairly laborious and, to a
certain degree, a barrier or an obstacle when maintaining a site like the Convention Hall. So what
the Department of Parks and Rec is asking for ... and the State has recognized that these can be
barriers for small changes because it's just any use, any change on something that's on the list has
to go through this process. So the State has an exemption list for various agencies for things like
minimal improvements or changes of use in order ... where they can exempt out of having to do the
environmental review process for these minimal or nominal changes.
So what the Department of Parks and Rec is asking for is just to be able to amend their exemption
list to incorporate some management of the site to ensure that if it's on the Registry, any type of,
say, interior or small modifications won't bump them or push them into having to do that fairly
lengthy environmental review. The Department is looking at it as it's a reasonable request. The
letter states that they are in support of ultimate nomination, but they just want to clear this one (1)
procedural issue.
Ms. Schneider: Commissioners? Pat.
Ms. Griffin: How long is he proposing that that will take?
Mr. Hull: There's no timeline in the letter. Yeah, there's no timeline in the letter. Well, see, they
would have to get the language drafted, if they are going to have language, and then that language
ultimately has to get vetted and reviewed and approved by the Office of Environmental Quality
Control and the Environmental Board, which is a public hearing of sorts. I imagine it would take
anywhere... quite honestly, in my own estimation, it would be six (6) to eight (8) months before
they could get any amended language. Could it take longer? Yes. But on average, I would imagine
six (6) to eight (8) months. Our County Attorney is familiar with it, so...
June 23, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
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Deputy County Attorney odi Higuchi Sayegusa: Yeah, and so it'd have to go through OEQC
review, and go to the Environmental Council and, specifically, the subcommittee to review the
exemption list, and then it has to go back to the full Council for approval. So the drafting, the
review process, the Enviromnental Council, and then coming back and, ..if there's any questions
or any issues that needs to be dealt with, you know, they'd have to go back again to the Council.
So, I mean, it's really ... it just depends on the process. I helped Public Works with
their... amending their list and we had to go back at least twice or three (3) times to the
subcommittee before it got approved to the Environmental Commission. Yeah.
Ms. Griffin: We talked about this some months ago when we were discussing
putting... recommending things to be nominated for the State or National Register. There is that
process once the exemptions are submitted, but I am wondering about asking that the letter be
submitted within a fairly quick timeframe because it's not like writing the letter and having, you
know, a self-addressed stamped envelope that comes back with the okay, you know? So in terms
of a response to this letter, it seems appropriate for us to ask about when that exemption is going
to be submitted.
Ms. Schneider: Can we make a recommendation to receive it and ask for a timeline?
Ms. Higuchi Savegusa: Or an update be forwarded on to the Commission once the
Parks... Department of Parks and Recreation has a timeline. But, you know, there is a letter here
before the Commission on the agenda that you folks could receive because it's just,. you already
took action previously, and so now it's just a letter after submitted. So, you know, the action would
be just to receive it, and then, you know, you could also ask the Department to follow-up or maybe
update you folks at a future date.
Ms. Griffin: Yes, it seems like simply receiving it doesn't ask the question.
Ms. Higuchi Savegusa: Right,
Ms. Griffin: That being able to ask that they return next month with the letter requesting
exemption, or whatever; if it's a form, I'm not sure.
Ms. Higuchi Sayegusa: Or at least the language, perhaps, of the amendment to the exemption list.
Or a couple months. I'm not sure.
Mr. Chaffin Jr.: I would suggest that in that framework we put in a number of days or weeks, or
a time limit like two (2) weeks or a month or something, so it just doesn't go on and on.
Ms. Schneider: Is that within the purview...?
Ms. Higuchi Savegusa: I mean at this point, though, you folks already took action on the grant
application proposal, right?
Ms. Schneider: A couple of meetings ago
June 23, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 7
Ms. Hi cug hi Savegusa: Right. And it's just, A in just trying to think of what Luther action, or
what would be the hook, you know, at this point, other than, you know, just asking the courtesy of
the Department to keep you folks in the loop.
An Hull: I think the request can be made that an update be given, as far as when the.. or the
language is anticipated to be sent over to OEQC because ultimately, the language is going to be
sent over, so I don't see that necessarily being a problem for Lenny. And I think if, ..yeah,
if...there's two (2) ways you guys can do it; you guys can receive it and also additionally request
that an update be given, or you can defer it until further information can be provided.
Ms. Schneider: What's the Commission's pleasure?
As. Wichman: I'm just wondering why the County is doing this. Is it just to save money?
Or...I'm not really sure why they're requesting to be on the exemption.
Mr. Hull: Say it's on the nomination... excuse me, it's on the registry and the Department of Parks
and Recreation wants to put a water fountain, the trigger under 343 is a carte blanche trigger; any
proposal. So he would say I want to put a water fountain and to the tune of, I don't know, $1,000.
The Environmental Review would say, before you put that water fountain, you have to do an
Environmental Assessment to determine that that water fountain will not have any impacts on the
surrounding area, and so he'll do the $50,000, 6-month or 2-year review to determine whether or
not the water fountain is going to have any impacts. Because the trigger for a registered site is
carte blanche on everything, they need exemptions to ensure that they can just maintain the site as
a gathering place in its day-to-day operations, essentially.
Ms. Wichman: But would the exemption give them carte blanche to do what they want?
Ms. Higuchi Savegusa: No.
Mr. Hull: No.
Ms. Wichman: No? So where is the oversight?
Ms. Higuchi Save usa: I think what's so through the exemption list process, the Deparhnent is
given the opportunity to name certain projects that are, kind of, within the certain...the threshold
and it's still governed under HRS 343, which requires reviews for when its triggered, and so things
like historic sites typically triggers it. It's just now carving out those types of renovations or, you
know, that really shouldn't be subject to the whole process. For example, like minor interior
aIterations that's not going to really affect the historic nature of the site or the building, and those
types of things. So it's just ... and when we went through the previous process with Public Works
to carve out those types of things, we went through each and every listed item to ensure it
vas ... there was some means to have oversight over any construction and anything like that, so in
this context for historical sites, I mean, we have the general guidelines that it's not meant to take
out, you know, things that would. ..it's not going to go around HRS 343. It's really meant to take
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It those that are not going to have any impact to the historic nature of the site. I mean, it's like a
catch-all and then just carving it out; those appropriate things.
Mr. Hull: Yeah, and if I could dovetail on it, to be clear, being put on the exemption list doesn't
mean it's therefore exempt from the review. It's just...they come in and say what specific type of
projects are exempt within this site; say, a water fountain or, say, interior repair. And if it's a type
of project that isn't on that exemption, then it bumps it up to that environmental review.
Ms. Wichman: Oh okay.
Mr. Hull: So you can imagine, especially with architectural context of the Convention Hall, if
they're going to go and, say, change the dome or something, like, that would definitely not be on
the exemption list, so they would have to, therefore, go through that 343 environmental review.
Ms. Wichman: Alright.
Mr. Hull: Yeah.
Ms. Wichman: I understand better now. Thank you.
Ms. Schneider: So what's the Commission's pleasure?
Ms. Higuchi Savesusa: I guess to re -summarize the options at this point, it's to receive and maybe,
you know, if you folks want to ask the Department to give updates in the future, or you can defer
it until an ... to allow the Department to update you, but still have it on the agenda.
Ms. Griffin: I move that the KHPRC receive this letter from Department of Parks and Recreation,
and request that they update us next month about the request for an exemption.
Ms. Schneider: Is there a second?
Ms. Arinasa: I second.
Ms. Schneider: Any discussion?
Mr. Chaffin: I question whether this, really, is a historic building. Does it have any great
architectural significance?
Ms. Hi ug chi Sayeggsa: Sorry, just to bring it back, we already acted upon that, you know, whether
or not to submit the grant application for the designation of it, so at this point, it's just more the
letter; the action on the letter.
Mr. Chaffin: Okay.
June 23, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
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Ms. Schneider: Any further discussion? All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote) Anyone opposed?
(None) Motion passes 8:0.
Re: Department of Parks &Recreation
County of Kauai
Construction of a Recreational Fence for Safety and Per Lease Agreement at Waioli
Park, TMK: 5=5=06:008, Hanalei, Kauai.
Mr. Hull: Next agenda item is Agenda Item H, New Business. No. 1, Department of Parks and
Recreation, County of Kaua'i, construction of a recreational fence for safety and per lease
agreement at Wai'oli Park, TMK: 5-5-006:008, Hanalei, Kauai. The applicant is the Department
of Parks and Rec, and I believe Nancy has a presentation.
Nancy McMahon: Good afternoon, Commissioners. I'm Nancy McMahon. I'm the Park Planner.
I also have with me Wai'oli Corporation, some of the board members are here today; their Director
and two (2) of the board members are here. We are going to be talking about Wai'oli Town Park
in just a minute while I kind of get set up here. Sony I'm sitting so far away. It may be a little
big.
So I kind of wanted to give you.,. you got in your packet, I think, the application that we had in
there, and what I wanted to do was kind of give you an idea of where this is at. We are actually in
the center of Hanalei; right there in the middle area. That green highlighted area is Wai'oli Town
Park. It is leased to the County on a new current lease `til 2032 from Wai'oli Corporation. It's
about 5 acres in that park side there, so I wanted to let you know that.
And what we're proposing. ..so that kind of gives you the area up there at the top comer. You can
sort of see it up here, and this area here is the acres. It's currently a soccer field. We also have a
lighted basketball area that's there. We're looking at putting in some vinyl fencing to match the
existing fencing that is in front of the Wai'oli Hui`ia Church that's there, and I'll show you some
pictures of that, but I just wanted to let you see. This is Kuhio Highway here. The fence will also
run down along Malolo Road, so I just wanted to, kind of, show you that area, too; and that's right
here. We are going to have a service gate that we are going to propose. It's going to be
about... right.., actually across from the opening here, so that there's actually a couple restrooms
that are over there, and going from there, so...
So this is a picture looking towards Kuhio Highway. You can see that the court house there is in
the front area. This is the existing basketball court. There's some telephone poles already there
that we've had in. There's the fence that's there, with that area there. So that's what we are going
to try to match the fencing. Here's a better picture of it. A little closer up so you can see what it
looks like right in front of the church. It's a 2-rung split rail. They have a wood fence. We are
going to try to put in vinyl because we just think the easier maintenance on it, easy to replace, and
something that we can keep clean a little bit better.
June 23, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 10
So this is the soccer field and this is the area right now. Cars are parking in here. We also have
some other events and there's no organization to that. And there has been a child hit, so a little bit
of a safety issue for that.
So this is sort of the schematic for the proposal for the construction. There will be 8-foot sections.
These are going to be fairly minimum; 5 inches by 5 inches, not quite as big as the existing one,
with 2 feet in the ground with a rebar and cement to hold that in, and then the section in between
there with a cap on the post. We'll probably cement the post just to fill that in a little bit better.
Just to give you the idea of that split rail. So they'll be 3 feet above ground and then these rails
that will go across there on that vinyl fencing. So it's about 440 feet along KiN6 Highway and
about 395 feet along Malolo Road with that service gate in there.
I kind of wanted to give you a little ... that's a little bit better of an aerial view of that location, so
here's... So we're going to probably try to keep in line with the palm. I Ary to follow that same...
There's their fence over there. We're going to tryto keep in line and go down here. Here's that
service gate, which we're going to try to match the opening here; essentially where the porta potties
are at and going down to right about there.
It's been in the lease agreement since, I believe, 1982 to fence this park and we have not done it,
so we are trying to now fence it. We are trying to match it aesthetically to the existing fencing
that's already on the church property, and take care of that, sort of, issue. So I kind of wanted to
just give you that, sort of, overview on it. We have...and the way that I'm looking at the
construction plans, it's sort of to give a, sort of, minimum impact by 5 inches by 5 inches on the
vinyl fencing. I initially talked to Mary Jane about... we'll have to do some archaeology, but what
Y want to do is, ..my own experience, I drove out there when I was measuring this off and got stuck.
It's mostly lo'i. The County of Kauai doesn't have 4-wheel drive vehicles. I forgot because the
State of Hawaii does. (Laughter) And I got stuck about 2 feet in the mud and had to get pulled
out by one of our custodians' friends that had a 4-wheel drive truck to pull me out, so it's mostly
lo`i soils. So I thought our area of impact is really going to be the fence line, but we go ... if we do
some archaeological testing, it will be in between. We are going to go...have to go out for
construction bids and the contractor will then hire an archaeologist to work with the scope of work
on the archaeology there, so that's what the plan is right now.
Because ... this property is on the register that's why we're coming to see you. I did send, about a
year ago, to the Architecture Branch for SHPD and they seem to not have a lot of concerns. I also
submitted it through their submittal process just to make sure. I haven't received any comments
back, but this will be an SMA Minor Permit to do that. And I know that the Board will really be
happy that we're trying to work on this project and get this done. So I would address any questions
you have, if you have anything.
Ms. Schneider: Any questions for the applicant? Commissioners? Is there anybody from...
Ms. Arinaga: I do. I do.
Ms. Schneider: Okay.
June 23, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 1 I
Ms. Arinaga: Just a quick question, Nancy. So with the fencing... and I know there's a lot of
soccer families out there. Will the fencing keep the cars out?
Ms. McMahon: That's the intent, and keep them parked along that side.
Ms. Arinaga: Okay.
Ms. McMahon: I did talk to Highways, just so you know. The right -of --way is 40 feet from the
centerline on that mauka side of the highway there; Kiihio Highway. So the idea was to keep it in
line with those palm trees, which is actually still in line, and that still gives you room to either do
parallel or angled parking in there, and that should keep people to park right there.
Ms. Arinaga: Okay, great. Thanks.
Ms. Schneider: Because the field turns to mud when people park on it; having parked on it.
Anybody from the public that would like...?
Bob Schleck: Good afternoon, Commissioners. I'm Bob Schleck. I'm the Director of the Wai`oli
Mission House at Hanalei, and I want to thank you for your consideration of this. As Nancy has
said, we wished for this to be done for some time. The park was always... or that area was made
available when the Mission House was restored in 1921, and then a formal agreement came into
works with the County in the 1950s, so it has always been a congenial arrangement, but it has
always been intended as a recreational area/a playground, and not for traffic or vehicles. So we
appreciate this consideration and the effort. I think it also replaces a fence that had existed there
in the 50s and 60s, so it's putting back what once was there.
Ms. Higuchi Sayegusa: Sony, Nancy. Sorry to just interject. If we could just have the
witness ... I'm song, not the witness ... but the testifier, and if you can ... just for now and then you
can come back when recognized. Thank you.
Mr. Long: Thank you. Thank you. I have a question. Will you be replacing the existing wooden
fence when you put in this new plastic fence?
Mr. Schleck: The wooden fence is in front of the Wai`oli Hui`ia Church, and that is a separate
property. This is the Wai`oli Mission property, so it would...there isn't a fence there right now.
It's mostly rocks or palm trees.
Mr. Long: Right.
Ms. Wichman: I have a question. Mr. Schleck, the new fence that will be going up, will it be on
the same footprint as the previous one that was up in the 50s?
Mr. Schleck: I believe it is very similar to that location, yes. As a matter of fact, I think the palm
trees were planted where the old fence had been, so it kind of is the old arrangement, the old
alignment.
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Page 12
Ms. Wichman: Thank you.
Mr. Chaffin Jr.: I've heard discussion that there is soccer on the other side of the fence, and my
question is, with the soccer, is the fence going to prevent the balls from going into the street?
Mr. Schleck: I don't think we can guarantee that, okay. Ideally, it would. And, you know, the
park is intended for all recreation, pot just soccer. I know baseballs or whatever can also be there,
but I don't know that it would have that much of a deterrent. Hopefully it would.
Mr. Chaffin Jr.: Thank you.
Ms. Schneider: Any further questions? Any recommendations?
Ms. Hieuchi Savegusa: Perhaps we can, ..if there's more testimony.
Ms. Schneider: Is there anybody else from the public that would like to speak on this application?
Mr. Schleck: Thank you.
Ms. Nakea: Thank you.
Ms. Schneider: Do we have a motion? Commissioners?
Ms. Wichman: I have a question for Nancy.
Ms. McMahon: Commissioner Wichman.
Ms. Wichman: So I'm just curious why there isn't an AIS? Because you have found other things
at the Mission House as well, right? And you mentioned that these are possible lo`i.
Ms. McMahon: We're going to put it with the construction plan, so that contractor will have to
do that. Yeah, we've kind of talked and I did talk to Susan Lebo about the ... we were looking at
the footprint. The area of impact is really the fence line.
Ms. Wichman: Right.
Ms. McMahon: And trying to stay in there, and maybe doing a couple ... my thoughts were doing
a couple trenches or test units, really, in between the rungs where we think the posts are going to
go. It'll be lo`i; (inaudible) lo'i, basically, soils that I can tell. Maybe we can do some pollen or
something like that in it.
Ms. Wichman: Okay, that would be great.
Ms. McMahon: Yeah. So our construction contractor will have to have that in their proposal.
lune23, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 13
Ms. Wichrnan: Okay, great. Thank you.
Ms. Nakea: Well, I just have a question. What...if we were to...if I were to make a movement,
what would. ..we9re just receiving, in a sense, right, at this point? What...
Mr. Hull: I think if the Commission as a whole is okay with what's being presented, you would
just receive it. If you want to take, say, a more proactive role, you could take a motion to
recommend some type of approval. If there are concerns in the application that you have, that is
also a motion that could be made, and those concerns would essentially go in an advisory capacity
to the Planning Department because we are reviewing their Special Management Area Minor
Permit. So we do give conditions of approval and have, say, final authority on that. Your motion,
if you have concerns, would serve in an advisory capacity to us whether or not we would
incorporate that motion or that action by this body to make it a condition of approval.
Ms. Nakea: Okay.
As. Schneider: Commissioners?
Ms. Griffin: And this is exempted from an EA?
Ms. McMahon: I put in a request to be exempt from the EA process because it is a park and there
was a former fence there before, so we are replacing that a fence. It's a repair and replacement
type of project. So I have submitted that letter to the Planning Department and waiting for their
response with the packet that I submitted with the SMA Minor.
Ms. Nakea: I move that we receive the report and...
Mr. Chaffin Jr.: Second,
Ms. Schneider: Any discussion? All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote) Anybody opposed?
(None) Passes.
Mr. Hull: Motion passes 8:0.
Re: Letter (6/10/16) from Saundra F. Jacobs, Regulatory Compliance, Eukon Group
Requesting to Make a Presentation on the Cultural Resource Aspects and Processes
to the KHPRC on the Proposed AT&T Cell Site Located at the Kilauea Japanese
Cemetery, TMK: 54 4:49, Kilauea, Kauai.
Mr. Hull: The next agenda item is H.2., New Business. Letter from Saundra Jacobs, Regulatory
Compliance, Eukon Group, requesting to make a presentation on the cultural resource aspects and
processes to the KHPRC on the proposed AT&T cell site located at the Kilauea Japanese
Cemetery, TMK: 5-24:049.
Dune 23, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 14
Saundra Jacobs: Good afternoon, Chairwoman Schneider and members of the Commission. I'm
Saundra Jacobs. I'm the Environmental Resource Specialist with Eukon Group. We are the
environmental consultant to AT&T, and with me here today is also Dr. Alex Hazlett. He's the
Senior Archaeologist with Scientific Consultant Services, and I'll ask him to speak in a few
moments, way back there.
We're here today, at the request of the Planning Department, to review with you the cultural
resource processes that we went through to comply with the National Environmental Protection
Act and the National Historic Preservation Act, Section 106, for the new monopine at the Kilauea
Japanese Cemetery on Mihi Road in Kilauea. So what you have before you ... and I'm glad I
printed out some paper copies...is just a real brief presentation to take you through the steps that
we go through when we're reviewing a cell site for any carrier.
One of the first pages, the second page on your presentation, is a map of the Kilauea Japanese
Cemetery on Mihi Road. The next page is ... this would really be better as a PowerPoint, wouldn't
it? Chairman Schneider, if you don't mind, I think this would be better as a PowerPoint. Would
you mind if I pull my computer up and put it on my computer?
Ms. Schneider: We can take a 5-minute recess and (inaudible).
Ms. Jacobs: Thank you. I appreciate that.
Ms. Schneider: We'll recess for five (5) minutes so she can set up.
The Commission recessed this portion of the meeting at 3:43 p.m.
The Commission reconvened this portion of the meeting at 3:46 p.m.
Ms. Schneider: Call back to order.
Ms. Jacobs: Thank you. Shall we try that again?
Mr. Chaffin Jr.: Where in California?
Ms. Jacobs: Southern California in Irvine in Orange County, and in Ewa Beach in O'ahu. I am
the Environmental Resource Specialist myself. I've been doing environmental assessments for
NEPA and CEQA for the last 25 years, and I've been working in the telecom industry for the last
20 years doing specifically for NEPA.
Thank you, again, Chairwoman, for indulging me. Makes it a little bit easier here.
Ms. Jacobs presented a PowerPoint Presentation on the AT&T site at the Kilauea Japanese
Cemetery for the record (on file with the Planning Department),
Dr. Alex Hazlett: I'm Dr. Alex Hazlett. I've been working for SCS for the last 4 '/2 years, almost
5 years. I worked for Cultural Surveys Hawaii previous to that since 2007 in the offices on Oahu.
June 23, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 15
I've worked on projects here. I worked on monitoring for the bike path in Wailua, but most of my
work has been on O'ahu and on Army Corps projects on Oahu and the Big Island. I helped to
write the plans and do some of the revisions that were sent back and forth to SHPD until the AMP
was approved, so I've seen this language a few times.
Dr. Alex Hazlett continued the PowerPoint Presentation on the AT&T site at the Klauea
Japanese Cemetery for the record (on file with the Planning Department).
Dr. Alex Hazlett: That's all I have.
Ms. Jacobs: Thank you so much. So you have a paper copy of exactly what we went through, and
those are for you to keep, as well as the larger documents. As an advisory to the Planning
Commission, we are hoping that you would support this project and have the old, ugly pole go
away and the taller monopine stay.
Ms. Schneider: Any questions for the applicant, Commissioners?
Ms. Arinaga: I do.
Ms. Schneider: Go ahead, Kalei.
Ms. Arinaga: I have a couple of questions on your timeline, please. September 2014, you
mentioned that there was consultation with Gary Smith.
Ms. Jacobs: Correct,
Ms. Arinaga: And what happened? I mean, it just seems like a statement that you met with Gary
Smith. Were families identified that are in the Kilauea Japanese Cemetery?
Ms. Jacobs: Actually, there were. If you indulge me, I would be happy to read the email from Mr.
Smith concerning just that item.
Ms. Arinaga: I would. Thank you.
Ms. Jacobs: This is March 23, 2015 from Gary Smith to Carrie Willoughby with Ace
Environmental. Aloha Came, I've not been successful over the many years and several inquiries
to ascertain the presence of Chinese burials within the combines of the Klauea Japanese Cemetery.
We do know that it was originally used to bury the Chinese, as well as the Koreans, and that there
was a segregation of these burials by race. The Chinese site, as close as I can tell you, is on the
southeast comer of the 2-acre property. For the most part, these burials were single men with no
family as it was the practice of the plantation to recruit only single Chinese and Korean men, and
later Filipino men. Today, its only evidence is a comparative difference in the topography. It's a
little more bumpy as would be the case if the burial sites had been formally dug up and the soil left
in heaps and depressions to gradually level over time.
tune 23, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 16
For the sake of time, all of the emails and all of the outreach that was done, I'd be happy to continue
to read. If it's the privilege of the Chair, I can continue.
Ms. Schneider: Kalei, were your questions answered?
Ms. Arina¢a: Or can it be provided to the Commission?
Ms. Schneider: Do you have a copy of it?
Ms. Jacobs: Certainly. Yes. This is definitely a public document that is also in the SHPD's hands
as well.
Ms. Arina¢a: Great. I thank you, and I have another question. October 31, 2014, consultation
attempts with Mr. Wayne Harada. Was there any follow-up?
Ms. Jacobs: There was. Mr. Harada was contacted again on behalf of AT&T. There was a
subsequent follow-up approximately a week later, but there is no documentation that he was able
to correspond back to the consultant at the time.
Ms. ArinaQa: Thank you. One more question. April 2015, the attempt to reach out to descendants.
Can you explain what happened? Were you successful? Were you...?
Ms. Jacobs: Well, part of that outreach to the descendants included Mr. Gary Smith, and there
was an outreach to the SHPD Office for a list of potential descendants. They did not have one, so
they went with talking to Mr. Gary Smith, who goes on to mention a few people by last name as
initials to keep their privacy. So there were several. just as an example here, Mr. W.G. who along
with his father went to help clean up the Chinese section annually in April for Ching Ming in the
1950s. The graves, what few remain, would have been marked with a wooden post long
decomposed, as was the case with the current Japanese section where they were only known based
on the cemetery plot plan created in the 1930s. So it was an ongoing process of emails and phone
calls and inquiries, and then reporting back to the SHPD Office as well.
Ms. Arinaea: It seems that this started in 2014, but I only see one (1) neighborhood association
meeting and an attempt to reach out to the people who live there. Can you explain why?
Ms. Jacobs: Well, the Site Acquisition Manager...I'm just the Environmental Consultant, so if
there are neighborhood meetings, they would be held by AT&T's representative. So the one I'm
most familiar with is the most recent 2015 meeting.
Ms. Arinaga: Thank you.
Mr. Hull: I can also speak a bit to this, Commissioner. The application you are reviewing is
actually a consequence of several years of trying to find a site out there. Actually, this was not the
original proposed site for AT&T. AT&T proposed to go somewhat closer to Kilauea Town in the
vicinity of Titcomb Road and was met with overwhelming response from the community that did
June 23, 2016 KNPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 17
not want it there. And I attended some... at least one of those neighborhood community meetings,
and there was robust discussion about moving the proposed site to an alternate site, and the
Japanese Cemetery ultimately had a site, and so they are looking at it as an alternative to what
you're seeing here now today.
Ms. Schneider: And this will still have to go to Planning Commission?
Mr. Hull: This ultimately goes to the Planning Commission. Correct.
Ms. Arinaea: Thank you.
Ms. Jacobs: You're welcome. It was difficult to pare down two (2) years of consultation into a 5.
minute presentation, so I apologize if it sounds abbreviated in the presentation, but it was quite in-
depth.
Ms. Schneider: Thank you. Are there any other questions from the Commission? Is there anybody
from the audience that would like to speak on this application? Do we have a motion?
Ms. Jacobs: Thank you.
Ms. Wichman: I have a question, please. I know that back in ... was it 2001 that this came first
before...or the original cell tower came before this Commission? I'm just kind of curious if. I Ahis
is going to just replace that cell tower that's there now, right?
Ms. Schneider: Yes.
Ms. Wichman: So back in 2001, was there opposition to putting this originally there?
Mr. Hull: I would have to research the file. I'm not too sure at this point in which I would have
to research the file.
Ms. Griffin: And I believe that it actually came before this Commission in the late 90s. I became
a Commissioner in 2001. I did go up to the site at the time, to Kilauea with a Commissioner to see
it, and I know there was a lot of discussion, at the time, about it.
Ms. Wichman: I remember that.
Ms. Griffin: Yeah. But ultimately accepted, obviously.
Mr. Hull: Yeah, and I can say, for this site, when it was originally sited, it was kind of in the
burgeoning era ... not the burgeoning... but it was as more and more telecom was coming online.
But this was kind of in the beginning. I mean, now, you know, the Commission will
review...Planning Commission will review four (4) or five (5) sites like these a year. When it was
originally ... or as telecom began to establish itself here in the Country, and as well as here on
Kauai, there was not much of a move to, somewhat, stealth these sites. So since that time, the
June 23, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 18
County and the Planning Commission have adopted a policy pretty much where any new site
outside of the Industrial District needs to be stealthed to some manner. So virtually, almost all the
sites that have been reviewed in the past decade have had some stealthing mechanism; whether it
be to look like a tree if it's in the agricultural area, or if it's on a building to have some type of
facade covering the antennas. You folks received one which they looked at turning into a tower.
(Laughter) So this is a site that. ..one of the few remaining sites that hasn't been stealthed, which
is why the Department preliminarily can say we are supporting this in the sense that when you do
visit the site, it is a sacred area, but it has this very industrial structure within it. Now, it's going
to be there and what the applicant is proposing now is, ..the facility will still be there, but they are,
in an attempt, trying to stealth it to blend in a bit more with the environment.
Ms. Wichman: So the tower itself isn't going to move at all? It's just going to be extended upward,
right?
Ms. Schneider: That's my understanding.
Ms. Wichman: Is that right?
Ms. Schneider: No?
Mr. Hull: No.
Ms. Wichman: Because it looks like in this plan that it's actually moved, but (inaudible).
Ms. Jacobs: They are going to move it on to the other side of the shelter that's there. Expand the
lease area, so that it can have room for two (2) carriers, now, on one (1) pole rather than two (2)
separate poles, and the old pole will come down.
Ms. Wichman: So that's where SCS comes into play with the archaeology monitoring, right?
Dr. Hazlett: We came into it primarily because the ground disturbance with digging for a new
pole, laying a slab for the new cabinets, and also for the tree that was originally going to be
extracted entirely. And that was of great interest to the State because of the chance for burials
coming up with the roots, so we were happy to hear when they said they'd rather stump it and
leave the roots in place.
Ms. Schneider: So do we have a recommendation?
Mr. Chaffin Jr.: I would like to make a comment on these elevations. They are supposed to look
like a tree and I have... was aware of it, and as I drive by these places that have these "tree -looking
structures", they don't look anything like a tree. They are just a sore thumb. I'd either like to see
it changed or just accepted.
Ms. Hieuchi Sayegusa: So perhaps the best thing to do at this point is to generate a motion and
then you guys can have a discussion on any proposed action that you folks want to take.
June 23, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 19
Mr. Chaffin Jr.: Well, I would like to propose a motion to examine these elevations of the "tree-
like structure" and make it more like a tree, or just accept it as it is.
Ms. Higuchi Savegusa: I guess there's, kind of, two (2) actions that were proposed within the
same motion, so maybe you could distill it to, maybe, one (1) and then see where that goes, and
then possibly if, you know, if that motion fails, then we can discuss a second motion.
Administrator Furfaro: You have a motion on the floor. You need a second.
Mr. Hull: I think, Jay, what the attorney is getting at is the motion is conflicting.
Ms. Higuchi Savegusa: So perhaps the best at this point is to retract it and if you could just clarify
one (1) proposed action and then we can go from there.
Mr. Chaffin Jr.: Alright. I will retract my initial motion/conversation, and just state that I feel that
these elevated tree -like structures don't look like a tree at all. They are just a sore thumb, and I'd
like to see it modified.
Administrator Furfazo: The rest of my piece is if you don't get a second, the motion dies.
Mr. Chaffin Jr.: Right.
Administrator Furfaro: Okay.
Ms. Schneider: Do we have a second?
Ms. Higuchi Savegusa: Yeah, I think that was not really a motion, but sort of a comment. Okay.
Mr. Lone: I have a comment. I'm looking at both of the elevations; one is a drawing and one is a
photographic overlay, and those two (2) towers are very different. I mean, the one on the
photographic overlay looks pretty much, to me, like a Norfolk pine. On the elevations, the drawn
ones look less like a tree, so maybe you could, you know, clarify exactly how much like a tree it
looks and what kind of tree.
Ms. Jacobs: Pleasure of the Chairwoman. Well, it's not a real tree. The old version, back in 2001,
was very industrial looking. It's difficult to make these look like real trees, and one of the biggest
problems... and, in fact, I even have a construction person with me here today if you really wanted
to get into that type of discussion... but structurally, these things need to be very, very strong.
There are winds and rain that it needs to stand very, very straight. It can't be crooked like a real
tree because it wouldn't stand the wind shear that it would be taking from any type of hurricane.
And these are structures that you're going to be using in an emergency, in addition to any time that
the police or safety personnel need to locate their antennas, they're going to come to these types
of facilities. So yes, I personally think they're beautiful, but I'm biased. But the idea here was to
take what could potentially be two (2) poles, turn it into one (1) taller pole, try and make it look as
June 23, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 20
much as a tree as possible, and be able to provide coverage in this area, so that's now I will answer
that.
Ms. Schneider: So do we have a motion by anyone?
Mr. Lona: Well, could you clarify for us which of the renderings you gave us is most like what
you're going to install?
Ms. Jacobs: This is still going through review with the Planning Department. Is that correct,
Director Hull? And so I would have to say...I think the photo simulation is a little sparse myself.
I probably would have had them try for a more bushier tree. When the planners are processing
this application, one of the things they can do is specify the number of branches per foot. And
there's a certain... and I don't want to quote what it is because I don't have it off the top of my
head, but ... or a certain number of branches per 10 feet, I think, is how it's calculated. And if you
want it to look bushier, it's a little more expensive, but they can do that. They also put on the
antennas what are called socks, and those kind of hide those big flat panels with more piney looking
socks.
Ms. Schneider: Would you be able to come back to the Commission next month with a more
illustrative picture of what it actually will look like?
Ms. Jacobs: Well, I'd be happy to ask them to prepare a new photo simulation, if that's what you
would like, with something that would look a little bit more about... because I think the drawings
are very recent and, I Xm really not quite sure how long ago these were done; at least a year ago
or so. And they do look different, and I apologize for that, but I can certainly ask AT&T to prepare
a revised photo simulation and I can send that to Director Hull, and perhaps he can pass that out
to you at that time.
Mr. Hull: Yeah, and if that's the pleasure of the Commission, that's... ultimately, you can request
that. And I'll also say that it is common for applications of this nature that are ... if approved by
the Planning Commission, it's standard to have a condition that the tree structure maintain a tree
appearance and the Department reserves the right to further engage the applicant to alter or amend
the tree to make it look more like a tree, essentially.
Ms. Griffin: Chair?
Ms. Schneider: Yes,
Ms.
Griffin:
I
have a
question for
clarification. Is there time to wait a month? Or when is this
supposed to
go
before
the Planning
Commission?
Mr.
Hull:
I'm not familiar
myself.
For the applicant, do you guys
know when your ... have you
guys been
set for a hearing
date for
the Planning Commission at this
point?
June 23, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 21
Ms. Jacobs: Not that I'm aware of, no. And remember, we're here as the Environmental
Consultant to show you what type of NEPA and Preservation Act processes we went on. Keoni
Fox is the Site Acquisition Manager that is processing this through the City...County, excuse
me ... and you know, he was the one ... I would just be reporting back to him. We are getting into
some other realms beyond my expertise. I just happen to know a lot of things because I've been
in the industry for a long time.
Ms. Schneider: Stephen.
Mr. Lone: How high is the tower? The new tower?
Ms. Jacobs: They are proposing 60 feet; 60 feet to the top of the branches.
Mr. Lone: Okay, so addressing the aesthetics of the final tower that is going to be proposed, in
Kilauea, there are a lot of examples of 60- to 80-foot Norfolk pines, so perhaps your engineer could
take a look at those examples. And since they're going to have to come up with some kind of a
shop drawing on this amount of branches at "x" amount of feet on center, now's the time to do
that, so that would be a great exercise for them to use an actual tree to model their installation after.
Ms. Jacobs: Thank you. I will take that back to the Site Acquisition person.
Ms. Schneider: Do we need a vote?
Mr. Hull: You can defer the item, or you can make a motion.
Ms. Hieuchi Savegusa: Right.
Mr. Hull: And it sounds like there might be an opportunity to defer if they can resubmit...
Ms. Schneider: Can we get a motion?
Mr. Lone: I'll make a motion that we defer this application and submittal until our next meeting
or whenever they are prepared to present to us shop drawings for the proposed pole installation
overlaid with a photographic image.
Mr. Chaffin Jr.: I'll second that.
Ms. Schneider: Any discussion? All those in favor? (Unanimous voice vote) Anybody opposed?
(None) Motion passes 8:0. Thank you, Stephen.
Mr. Hull: Motion passes.
Re: Puuopae Bridge Replacement
TMK: 4-4-02, Kawaihau, Kauai
June 23, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 22
Mr. Hull: The next agenda item is New Business H.3., Put `u`opae Bridge, fMK: 4-4-02,
Kawaihau, Kauai. Letter from Michael Moule, Chief, Engineering Division, Department of
Public Works, County of Kauai, requesting to be placed on the agenda to present additional
information about the design for the rehabilitation of Pu`u`opae Bridge.
Michael Moule: Good afternoon, Chair Schneider and members of the Commission. My name is
Michael Moule. I'm the Chief of Engineering Division here with the Department of Public Works
at the County. I was here last month presenting...we talked both about this bridge, Pu`u`opae
Bridge, as well as Hanapapa Bridge. I heard your earlier conversation about having Hanapapa
Bridge listed. Good luck with that. (Laughter in background) No further comment on my part on
that at this point. (Laughter in background)
We wanted to present back to you again because we've received some comments from Hawaii
Department of Transportation on this, and these are comments that have been received in the past
that we've responded to and we thought were resolved, but it turns out they weren't. So I'll try to
give a little bit of a brief timeline so that the. ..the main comment, the change that you'll see that's
going to be presented to you is ... compared to what you saw last time, this new drawing shows
guardrail, typical w-beam guardrail... actually thrie beam guardrail that comes off the other bridge
and wraps around the comers, and that's to protect the ... two (2) things. One is to protect the
bridge rail itself, the end of the rail that would stick out towards oncoming traffic is, in and of
itself, a hazard, and so you'd attach the guardrail with that and wrap it around so that it's protected
from a blunt end hit by a motor vehicle. And then also, just by wrapping it around somewhat, you
reduce the likelihood a vehicle will go down into the stream itself actually. It's a good...I don't
know ... a 6- to 8400t drop or something or more down into the stream in this case.
So back when we did 60% plan submittal in 2014, actually, HDOT came back and said that they
made a comment about the bridge rail back then. We replied saying this has been through many
reviews with historic resources folks and HDOT has seen this in the past. We want to leave it
without bridge rails since it was made a long time ago. We subsequently received no response
from HDOT saying no, no, no, you really must put in the bridge rail until which time we submitted
90% plans this year, and about May, we received comments back from them saying oh no, you
really must have this bridge rail in and we made that comment before. Why didn't you change it?
And we told them why we didn't change it, but they didn't reply to that with the statement that
they were not okay with that. So we went around in circles with them a little bit, trying to say
okay, is this really necessary? What's the situation on this? And we've come to a conclusion that
from Federal Highway Administration and Hawaii Department of Transportation's point of view,
they're not going to let some (inaudible) using Federal funds on this bridge without guardrails, he
said, effectively.
So we knew about this comment when we were here last month. I didn't bring it up because at
that time, we were hopeful that we'd be able to get through leaving the bridge as designed and
wouldn't have to present that to you, so that's why we're back. And I apologize for that, but I
didn't want to bring it up back then thinking ... at that point, we thought we had a good chance of
getting through because of what had happened in the past with the previous, ..you know, what we
June 23, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 23
thought were approvals, but they weren't approvals. They just weren't...they just never followed
up; let's put it that way. So that's the best way that I can explain it at this time.
But since a month ago, we are now to the point where okay, this has got to happen. There's no
compromise on this, and we are coming to you, showing you a new plan view with the guardrails
wrapping around the ends of I Attached to the bridge rail and wrapping around the end, and a new
elevation view that also shows how that works. A few other minor adjustments were made. The
waterline, which is going to be largely out of sight at this point, has to wrap around where the
guardrail post would go; that'll be buried at that point so you won't see that (inaudible). And I
think that's really about it. We did adjust the location of the placement of the historic end posts,
although those can be moved back and forth sort of linearly along the bridge; honestly to wherever
people want them. They're not attached to the bridge. They are sort of separate. It was proposed
for that in there. There'll be a small (inaudible) footing detached, so those can be moved to
wherever, really, we, and potentially in consultation with you all, think they will be best placed to
represent, you know, the original structure as best as possible.
So our goal at this point is to get any comments we have from you and then we are going to move
forward with working with Federal Highway Administration and State Historic Preservation
Division to, sort of, redo the concurrence of no adverse effect for this bridge. The determination
has been made already, and we had a conference call with HDOT and SHPD on this about two (2)
weeks ago, and they said, you know, based on other similar bridges and projects like this that at
first blush it didn't seem like there would be an adverse effect with this, but we thought it was
important to bring it back to you all and get your comments so they have those comments when
they're making that determination, so that's why we're here.
Our apologies for what is very much a last minute change, and we apologize for that. We could've
probably had done a better job of asking HDOT, are you really okay with this? Honestly. But we
didn't get the response from them saying oh no, that response is not sufficient for us. So that's
where we are. I've got Mike Hunneman here with Kai Hawai'i. He's with the design engineers
for this project, and we can answer additional questions about this. I'll add one last thing is that
Mike and I were talking about this, and he can give his personal experience, but in my experience,
it's very unusual if not ... if it ever happens that a Federal -aid bridge is rebuilt or built new without
these kinds of guardrails on the end. It's been a long time, but I actually worked as a Bridge
Engineer for the Oregon Department of Transportation years ago and it was always a big no -no to
leave a blunt end of a guardrail ... a bridge rail facing traffic, and so we always wrapped bridges
with guardrails. So that's ... in some ways, I was surprised since we didn't have it, but we.. MY
understanding was that it had gone through all the approval processes and we're moving forward
with it. But it turns out there had been some miscommunication on that in the past, and we're now
at a point where we do need to add that, and we're here to get your comments. So that was longer
than I planned, but hopefully that's a pretty good explanation.
Ms. Schneider: Any questions for the applicant? Pat? (Laughter) Our resident bridge person.
(Laughter in background)
Ms. Wickman: I have a quick question, please.
June 23, 2016 KHPRC Mmting Minuta
Page 24
Ms, Schneider: Sure,
Ms. Wichman: So by wrapping around these guardrails, does that, in any way, change the
historical integrity?
Mr. Moule: I think that would be a better question for someone besides me. I'm not a historic
integrity expert, but I will say there were no guardrails wrapped off the original bridge.
Ms. Wichman: Right, right.
Mr. Moule: What's out there today ... the bridge rail that's out there today is not the original bridge
rail. But my understanding ... our understanding is that there were not those types of guardrails
wrapping around, and that's fairly common. Bridges built a hundred years ago, that often wasn't
the case. You put a bridge rail right along the bridge itself and that was it. That's changed in the
last hundred years, and probably fifty years ago since we've always been doing that, but it didn't
happen a hundred years ago.
Ms. Wichman: But it will change the way the bridge looks without...
Mr. Moule: Absolutely.
Ms. Wichman: I mean because ... I mean, it would change quite a bit actually.
Mr. Moule: There's no doubt that it would change the way the bridge looks.
Ms. Wichman: And I'm curious what the community feels about that.
Mr. Moule: You know, we...I don't have an answer to that at this point. We haven't gone back
to public meetings on this at this time. You know, we ... you know, our effort at this point is to
work through the groups that understand the historic nature of this as best as we can, and get to
preferably the "No Adverse Effect" finding. If we don't get the "No Adverse Effect", we'll keep
moving forward with this project, but we are going to have to rethink a lot of things, including the
timing of when this bridge gets rebuilt. We understand that may be a result at this point, but we're
trying to avoid that if we can.
Ms. Wichman: Okay. I understand that, but I do know that there's a very, "the community is very
concerned about this bridge, and so I would like. .11 mean, I would think that you'd want to consult
with them or have another public meeting in Hanapepe to let them know about this.
Mr. Moule: This is the Pu`u`opae Bridge.
Ms. Schneider: Pu`u`opae.
Ms. Wichman: Oh, Pu`u`opae. Sony, sorry, sorry.
June 23, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 25
Mr. Monte: Yeah. That's alright.
Ms. Wichman: Okay. (Laughter in background)
Mr. Moule: I will say that, I mean, our timeline is really tight right now. We recognize that we
may not get there at this point. We've had a lot of conversation about what happens if we don't
get there and we're prepared to move in that direction, but we have to, essentially, get through the
process of getting the "No Adverse Effect" determination letter within the next month, roughly
speaking, maybe five (5) weeks, and get our other final documents in place by early August;
otherwise, this project will not be funded in this Federal fiscal year. It's not a threat or anything.
It's just a statement saying we want to get it done in this timeframe. We recognize that
we're..'With this change, this may result in us having to punt into a future year, and we've already
had discussions on how we would do that if we needed to do that because we recognize that ... what
we think is a route to get this done this fiscal year, we recognize that it may not happen because of
the reality of this process.
Ms. Wichman: Okay. I'd just like to apologize and retract some of my statements because I
vas ... I got a little confused and getting the two (2) bridges...
Mr. Moule: Sorry I mentioned Hanapepe Bridge.
Ms. Wichman: Yeah, I know. I'm getting the two (2) bridges confused, so I would like to retract
what I said. Thank you.
Mr. Moule: Okay.
Ms. Schneider: And Pat...
Mr. Moule: The community's much smaller in this case with the Pu`u opae Bridge.
Ms. Wichman: Yes, I understand that. Yes, yes.
Mr. Moule: Okay.
Ms. Wichman: It's a lot different.
Ms. Schneider: Did you want to speak, Pat?
Ms. Griffin: Thank you, Madam Chair. First, Mr. Hunneman, it's always a pleasure to see you.
I am aware that under other circumstances, you could've built the Taj Mahal in the time that you've
spent on this, and you probably did not expect this to be your life's work when you first opened
the letter about this project.
I would like to ... I guess this has been one (1) of three (3) bridges that have been worked on
simultaneously; the `Opaeka`a and the one that's about to start work on...
June 23, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 26
Mr. Moule: Demolition has started. Kapw, Bridge.
Ms. Griffin: What will happen to those in relationship to this guardrail discussion?
Mr. Moule: So Kapahi Bridge has a guardrail on it already; the old bridge had a guardrail on it.
Ms. Griffin: Okay.
Mr. Moule: So it has a guardrail in the plans, and it will have a guardrail very similar to this in
how that looks. `Opaeka`a Bridge, we will likely be looking to do the same thing on that bridge.
We're in a similar situation. We're likely in a situation where we have to either do that, and go
through the process, whatever that means, with respect to that bridge, and. ..to rehabilitate that, or
somehow come up with enough County funds to rebuild the entire thing without Federal -aid funds.
That's really where we're going to have to be on that. So I think our move forward right now will
be to move forward as a Federal -aid bridge and go through all the necessary steps, and probably
given that bridge's design, it's even more of an issue, honestly, I would imagine, from how the
guardrail might affect that bridge's look. So we know that that can be more challenging in that
case, but we know we're going to have to have a similar conversation about that bridge before we
move forward on that one.
Ms. Griffm: And with a longer timeframe.
Mr. Moule: Yes,
Ms. Griffin: Because that is a nationally historic bridge, you know, of importance. This one is
a...it was a modest transport across a stream, and it's always been a work -a -day kind of structure.
What is this guardrail going to be made of and look like?
Mr. Moule: It'll be steel guardrail; typically galvanized steel, right? A typical galvanized steel
guardrail. The very typical metal guardrail that you'd see on the side of a highway or attached
from any normal bridge. I mean, all the bridges that are looking to be replaced in the near future
on Kauai, including the State's bridges, like the W ainiha bridges are going be proposed to include
similar guardrail, that's unfortunately a safety issue that is very important to the...
Ms. Schneider: The Wainiha Bridge, they did show us like a white kind of...
Ms. Griffin: Right, but...
Mr. Moule: Oh for that, for the guardrail that attaches to the bridge rail? They showed a white
guardrail for that, too?
Ms. Schneider: Yes.
Ms. Griffin: Before your time, when Mr. Hunneman and Commissioners were up at the Kapahi
Bridge, the talk was of a separate railing, and you mentioned at the time that the metal -backed
June 23, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 27
wood would actually look more obtrusive because it was thicker than the old wood -style. But two
(2) men from Kauai just went to the Blue Ridge Mountains for a bicycle ride and one (1) of them
brought me back this, ..these railings. And I just wanted to show it because I keep hearing that for
safety reasons, it has to be metal, but it seems that there are alternatives at this point, and to have
that metal railing, I ... nobody wants to sacrifice safety for history. The question is how can there
be something that's less obtrusive than that kind of metal railing that compromises the entire look
and feel of the bridge?
Mr. Moule: I'll start, as far as ... I see the picture. I'm quite familiar with those railings. I've been
to North Carolina for several years and biked hundreds of miles along those rails, and I think those
are steel -backed, actually, in that case. They are a roadside guardrail, which is the equivalent to a
w-beam, 2-beam which is the "w" shape, and it's one (1) beam, right? As you can see in that
picture. The bridge rail itseli..not talking about the guardrail approaching it ... the bridge rail
itself, from a bridge standard point of view, will require putting railings in a way that you can't
pass a 6-inch or an 8-inch sphere through anywhere, so you couldn't just have one (1) railing like
that because then you go underneath it, right? You can have one (1) railing, but it would have to
be this thick. You have to get up to 42 inches, right? Yeah, 42 inches for pedestrian safety. So,
you know, you have to go up to 42 inches, and between your different railings that you have,
whether they're horizontal or vertical, you have to have ... you can't pass a 6-inch sphere. So any
gap vertical or horizontal can't be more than 6 inches. You need three (3), essentially, railings to
do that; unless you have two (2) really big ones, right? And so that makes it more challenging to
do it than a simple single, wooden guardrail like that. I'll let Mike...he has probably more
experience than I do on what there might be, as far as crash -tested bridge rails that are wooden.
There may be some. I don't know what those are. I don't know if those are applicable here. I
don't know if you have any sense of those, Mike.
Ms. Griffin: My suggestion was not a single...it was just saying I know other materials are being
used around the Country for bridges, and my own personal opinion is that the County and lots of
other people, including community, have worked long and hard on this. And it's not my intention
to propose something that will delay the procedure at this point, but I do think that given this rather
dramatic change that if there are alternatives to that metal w-style material would be advantageous.
Ms. Schneider: Do we have a motion?
Ms. Griffin: Oh, I think he was going to tell us if there were other possibilities.
Mike Hunneman: I don't think there is, and the reason for that is you've got the bridge railing that
Michael described which is a very rigid structure, and then you've got a w-beam leading up
through the approached roadway, which is fairly elastic, so if you hit it, you kind of just. ..like a
rubber band; you don't go through it, but you deflect it quite a bit. In between that elastic railing
and the rigid bridge railing, you've got to have something that's somewhere in between according
to Federal Highways, and that's what this railing accomplishes, really. The wooden railing does
not provide that stiffness.
Ms. Schneider: Thank you. Commissioners, do we have a motion?
June 23, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 28
Ms. Higuchi Sayeg_usa: So I guess...I mean, this is similar to the previous action, so at this point,
you know, you folks could receive the proposal or you can approve it; move to support/approve,
you know. I'm not ... examples of the options that may be available for you folks. (Laughter)
Ms. Schneider: No recommendations? (Laughter in background)
Ms. Griffin: I move that we receive this new plan with regret.
Ms. Nakea: I second.
Ms. Schneider: Any discussion?
Ms. Griffin: I have a little discussion, which is to say that I think it's very unusual and slightly
questionable to have a draft EA that has been approved, and then have something come again.
And I very much hope that we don't see other alterations to this particular bridge in the future, as
nice as it is to see you'gentlemen. (Laughter in background)
Ms. Schneider: Is there a vote on this? All those in favor? (Unanimous voice vote) Anybody
opposed? (None) Passes 8:0. Thank you.
Mr. Hull: Motion passes.
COMMISSION EDUCATION COMMITTEE
Re: Report from of investigative committee members (Permitted Interaction Group) to
discuss and explore educational opportunities for the Kauai historic Preservation
Review Commission. Once formed and the task completed, the investigative
committee will present its findings to the Commission in a duly noticed meeting for
decision -making.
Mr. Hull: Next agenda item is Agenda Item I, Commission Education Committee. Report from
the investigative committee members (Permitted Interaction Group) to discuss and explore
educational opportunities for the Kauai Historic Preservation Review Commission. Once formed
and the task completed, the investigative committee will present its findings to the Commission in
a duly noticed meeting for decision -making.
Ms. Nakea: Madam Chair, I will be giving this report. The KHPR Commission Education PIG
net on Thursday, June 161 at 2:00 p.m. at Island School with the goal of determining our training
needs and finding resources to help fulfill those needs. Here are our requests: the first one, full
training on the basics of being a Historic Commissioner; like the NAPC Commission Assistance
and Mentoring Program attended in Kona in 2014. Specifically, we would like to receive training
in Secretary of Interior Standards, how to judge and respond to permit requests of historic
properties. Also, reviewing Section 106 of the National Historic Preservation Act, and Hawai'i
Revised Statutes Chapter 6E. In addition to that, we would like to be trained on how to run a
June 23, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 29
meeting; not necessarily parliamentary procedures, but best practices and preparation strategies
for before, during, and after a public hearing. And ideally, we would like this basic training to be
on Kauai. The second big request, or, . Anyway, No. 2, two (2) in -state or national conferences a
year for training and networking that would be in addition to the Hawaii Congress of Planning
Officials. No. 3, two (2) Kaua`i trainings; one of which may be the NAPC CAMP Conference.
No. 4, attendance at a Maui or Hilo HPRC meeting to see how they are run, and that may count as
one (1) of the in -state conferences mentioned in Item No. 2. In addition to these requests ... oh,
does any of my other PIG members have anything to chime in at that point? Okay.
And then in addition to our requests, we also have some questions. When do current CLG funds
expire? And will funds be available for training in the upcoming year as Commissioners turnover
and as new Commissioners join us? Okay, that's the first question.
W. Hull: Forgive me for not knowing that off the top of my head, I believe there are, given the
last presentation that was given by Anna Broverman here, so I believe there still are. Anna was
supposed to have been here today, but some of their funding issues fell through so she was unable
to attend today.
Ms. Schneider: And Jodi's going to give us a training session next meeting.
Ms. Hieuchi Sayeuusa: Yes.
Mr. Hull: Yeah, and concerning just one of those issues that we have actually been in discussions
with the County Attorney's Office to provide, ..how to run a meeting, essentially/parliamentary
procedure review for this body. We were looking at doing it this Commission meeting, but they
weren't available to lend the resources for this meeting, but we are looking at agendizing that for
the next one.
Ms. Griffin: What the...we piglets were talking about in that meeting, in terms of how to run a
meeting, as De suggested, is not parliamentary procedures, but, you know, before a meeting. I
know in the original training I had with Jack Williamson, who was also in Kona, but back in 2001,
he stressed how important it was to go to the site, see it, because a map is not a landscape. And in
a meeting, when, you know, what kinds of questions, how do you approach the people that are
bringing permit requests, and that sort of thing; not parliamentary procedure, which would be
standard operating procedures across the Boards and Commissions.
Mr. Hull: Understanding that, then, that would definitely be one that we would run more through
the CLG program and the training that could essentially be done with those funds from...say like
the Kona training that happened.
Ms. Schneider: -Thank you, Deatri.
Ms. Nakea: Okay. I have more questions. Are we currently members of the NAPC? And if we
are not, may we be?
Dune 23, 2016 KnPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 30
Ms. Griffin: The National Alliance of Preservation...
Mr. Hull: Yeah, no, I know, I know that. I was trying to figure out if we're actually, . Me don't
have a membership, no. So we can look into how we can establish membership within that
organization.
Ms. Nakea: Okay. And then, also, the list that Shan sent us was great and very helpful. A lot of
those conferences have already happened, though, so if we could get, maybe, a more current,
updated list.
Mr. Hull: Yeah, and that's what we've been working with SHPD... that actually came from SHPD.
Ms. Nakea: Okay.
Mr. Hull: So, they're the ones that kind of have the fingers on the post of the National Conventions
or State Conventions, so yeah, we'll work with Anna to get an updated list again.
Ms. Nakea: Okay. Do any of my other piglets... that's such a great word ... okay. Sorry.
Ms. Griffin: I just wanted to thank you for that presentation. It was...
Ms. Schneider: Very good. Thank you.
Ms. Nakea: Oh, absolutely. You're very welcome.
Ms. Griffin: It was very good.
Ms. Nakea: Thank you.
Ms. Arinaea: I think your first question was not answered about funding.
Ms. Schneider: We're waiting for Anna.
Ms. Arinaea: Oh, we're waiting. Okay.
Mr. Hull: And I was just saying, Commissioner, that with the discussion that Anna gave at the
last meeting concerning funding for training, it appears that there is still available, but I don't want
to say that with any officialdom unless Anna folks are sitting at the table. (Laughter)
Ms. Schneider: And we need a date (inaudible)?
Mr. Hull: Well, concerning the ... there's two (2) courses of action that can happen after Deatri's
report. The Department can begin...can initiate and look at these very things and report back to
the Commission on these.
June 23, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 31
Ms. Schneider: Yes, that would be great
Mr. Hull: Or, the second course of action is if you want to take official action in recommending
that the Department look into these; that's at the...
Ms. Higuchi Sayegusa: So that will have to be put on the subsequent agenda. So this is just the
report back phase, unless you folks want to continue on any investigation or study or, you know,
looking into educational opportunities, and then make a decision at some other point, but we're
right now in the report, .discuss and report back and still study phase. But subsequent to this is
you guys have to figure out what the action is going to be.
Ms. Schneider: I think after we speak to Anna and see how much money there is
Ms. Higuchi Sayegusa: Okay.
Mr. Hull. Yeah, so I can say the Department will begin looking at these very specific requests
right now, but also it might be prudent and we can go through the minutes, Deatri, to kind of draft
up the specific proposals that were stated so that it can be agendized, and whether or not the
Commission wants to take specific action as a body on those at the next meeting. But I can say
with that ... with what Deatri's already given, we can begin, already, looking into these options.
Ms. Nakea: And the minutes... going off of the minutes is fine?
Mr. Hull: Yeah, and we might give you a call for clarification, but we can.. those were very
specific and clear and precise. (Laughter in background) Thank you for that.
Ms. Nakea: You're welcome. (Laughter in background)
Ms. Schneider: The next one is J?
Mr. Hull: Jodi, do we need a motion to receive?
Ms. Higuchi Savegusa: Yeah, maybe ... I was just thinking about that. Perhaps we could have a
motion to receive the report.
Ms. Arinaga: We're on the Committee, so does it matter?
Ms. Higuchi Sayegusa: I mean, it's technically, really, a report back, but yeah.
Ms. Schneider: Do we need a motion to receive it?
Ms. Higuchi Sayegusa: I guess to...
Mr. Chaffin Jr.: I'll make a motion to receive the report.
June 23, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 32
Ms. Higucm Sayeg isa: Thank you.
Ms. Schneider: Do we have a second?
Ms. Wichman: Second.
Ms. Schneider: Any discussion? All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote) Any opposed? No.
Motion passes 8:0.
KAUAI HISTORYC 12ESOURCE INVENTORY UPDATE COMMITTEE
Re: Report from investigative committee (Permitted Interaction Group) to discuss and
explore draft update of the Kauai Historic Resource Inventory. Once formed and
the task completed, the investigative committee will present its findings to the
Commission in a duly noticed meeting for decision -making.
Mr. Hull: The next agenda item is J, Kaua`i Historic Resource Inventory Update Committee.
Report from investigative committee (Permitted Interaction Group) to discuss and explore draft
update of the Kauai Historic Resource Inventory. Once formed and the task completed, the
investigative committee will present its findings to the Commission in a duly noticed meeting for
decision -making.
Ms. Schneider: Stephen.
Mr. Long: I'd like to make a report on our Interaction Group. Four (4) of us, plus Myles, our
Planner, conducted our first site visit on Tuesday. Before I give you some of the statistics, I'd like
to say that we have been really forhuiate to have Myles working with us. We showed up on
Tuesday and he had maps and TMK numbers and lists and was totally prepared and made our job
really easy. He's also a pleasure to spend 3 % hours in a small car with. (Laughter in background)
Ms. Schneider. With snacks. (Laughter)
Mr. Lone: And I also thank you for this summary that I'm going to read right here. Our consultant
for the architectural survey identified 594 sites, and of those, we've reviewed the 340 in the Llhu`e
District. We had about 50 buildings that we were unsure of because there wasn't enough
information or the photographs were not accurate enough. So to date, we've identified 220 sites
to keep and we removed 84 sites from the survey inventory, primarily by going out into the
neighborhoods and looking at the actual structures, and we'll be continuing on the other 254
properties in the next month or two.
Ms.
Schneider:
Thank
you, Stephen. And it was
great
to actually go out and see the buildings.
(Inaudible) Thank you,
Myles. Anything further?
The
next meeting is...
Ms. Wickman: Do we need to accept that?
June 23, 2016 KHPPC Meeting Minutes
Page 33
Ms. Schneider: Do we need a motion for that? To receive that?
Ms. Wichman: I make a motion to receive the PIG report for the Resource Inventory update
Ms. Schneider: Do we have a second?
Ms. Arinaea: Second.
Ms. Schneider: All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote)
Mr. Hull: Motion passes 8:0.
I'll also state, just for the Commission's edification, that there was some discussion at the previous
meeting about having the reports and the PIGS maintained within the agenda, and so the way we
set it up with the County Attorney's Office and the Chair is looking at having specific sections for
any PIGS that are created, so you have two (2) PIGs right now; one on education and one on the
inventory. So there will always be those sections, I and J, dedicated to those Interaction Groups
until they disband. Now, if, for some situation, that PIG doesn't meet between now and the next
Commission meeting and there would be no report, no report will be listed, but the section for the
Committee will always have its placeholder on the agenda.
Ms. Griffin: Thank you.
DATE AND AGENDA TOPICS (July 28, 2016)
Mr. Hull: Moving on to the next agenda item. Date and Agenda Topics. The next upcoming
agenda is July 28, 2016. Anna roverman from SHPD had intended to come to this meeting to
give a presentation and there's also discussions of her giving a ... somewhat of a CLG trailing. She
has conveyed to us that because of some funding issues, she was unable to attend this meeting and
she will, more than likely, not be able to attend the July meeting, but she will be looking at doing
the CLG training in August. In the meantime, she did submit over kind of a CLG grant application
diagram that I can circulate to you guys that you guys can kind of look at and fiddle with until she
gives her presentation. Thank you.
Ms. Schneider: Are we adjourned?
Ms. Griffin: Well, on the date and agenda topics, I would like to see an agenda topic on what we
discussed last month and a couple months before, which is some, you know, media presence that
is produced about the 50" Anniversary of the National Preservation Act and the 30th Anniversary
of the Kauai Historic Preservation Review Commission, the first CLG in the State.
Mr. Hull: Definitely. And an update on that, Commissioner, is we have some of the information
that you provided and we're very grateful for. In fact ... and the rest we're waiting for from SHPD
and Anna did just email me yesterday stating that she is still compiling that. She hasn't forgotten
June 23, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 34
about it, but she is still compiling that for us, so I'll send another email her way or give another
call to make sure or hope that we can get additional information for that July meeting. And then
also, as was discussed in the previous meeting, the Department would anticipate having the draft
rules for you folks at the July meeting.
S. Schneider: Are we adjourned? Adjourned.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjoumed at 5:01 p.1n.
Respectfully Submitted,
cie Agaran
Commission Support Clerk
Date: '01 lb lb