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HomeMy WebLinkAboutKHPRC022516MINUTESKAUA`I COUNTY HISTORIC PRESERVATION REVIEW COMMISSION Ldru`e Civic Center, Mo`ikeha Building, Meeting Room 2A/2B MINUTES A regular meeting of the Kauai County Historic Preservation Commission (KHPRC) was held on February 25, 2016 in the Lihu`e Civic Center, Mo`ikeha Building, Meeting Room 2A/213. The following Commissioners were present: Chairperson Anne Schneider, Pat Griffin, David Helder, Althea Arinaga, Charlotte Hoomanawanui, Deatri Nakea, Stephen Long, and Larry Chaffin Jr. The following Commissioner was absent: Victoria Wickman. The following staff members were present: Planning Department — Kaaina Hull (entered at 3:10 p.m.), Shanlee Jimenez, Myles Hironaka; Deputy County Attorney Jodi Higuchi-Sayegusa (left at 4:35 p.m); Office of Boards and Commissions — Administrator Jay Furfaro, Commission Support Clerk Darcie Agaran, CALL TO ORDER The meeting was called to order at 3:00 p.m. Ms. Higuchi-Sayegusa: Maybe roll call first. Ms. Schneider: Roll call, first? Deputy County Attorney Jodi Higuchi-Sa�gusa: Yes. Sorry. Ms. Schneider: What do I do? Ms. Higuchi-Sayegusa: Just, I guess, go around the room and make sure we are all here. Ms. Schneider: We're all here. Ms. Higuchi-Sayegusa: Quorum, Ms. Schneider: Quorum? Yes, we have a quorum. Ms. Higuchi-Savegusa: Okay, that's fine. SELECTION OF 2016 VICE CHAIRPERSON Ms. Schneider: Selection of the 2016 Vice Chairperson. We had a nomination. February 25, 2016 KFIPRC Meeting Minutes Page 2 Ms. Arinaga: Aloha. I would like to withdraw my name from the nomination, please. Ms. Schneider: Do we have any nominations for Vice Chair? Mr. Heldex: I would Iike to nominate Stephen Long. Mr. Long: I would like to decline and I would like to nominate Victoria Wichman in absentia. (Laughter in background) Mr. Helder: That's good. Ms. Griffin: I second it. (Laughter in background) Ms. Schneider: All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote) Motion carries 8:0. Victoria is Vice Chair. (Laughter in background) APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA Ms. Schneider: Approval of the Agenda. I'd like to move the discussion on the CLG first, if there are no objections, as we have the people from the State here. Administrator Furfaro: Madam Chair? Ms. Schneider: Yes. Administrator Furfaro: We have a swearing in to do first, and we also have some documents to be signed by (inaudible). Ms. Schneider: Okay. Council Administrative Assistant Eddie Topenio gave the Oath of Office to reappointed Commission Member Larry Chaffin Jr. Ms. Schneider: Can we now hear from the State? Unidentified Speaker: Police Station? Ms. Schneider: Oh no, no, the State. Cl Re: Discussion on the status of the Certified Local Government. February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 3 Ms. Higuchi-Savegusa: So we're on H.2.2 Ms, Schneider: Yes, Kai wi Nui Yoon: Good afternoon, Madam Chair. Thank you, Commission, for moving the State Historic Preservation Division up on the agenda. My name is Kaiwi. I'm from the State Historic Preservation Division. Anna Broverman: I'm Anna Bxoverman. I'm an Architectural Historian with the State Historic Preservation Division. Mr. Nui Yoon: Madam Chair, the only reason here is to report on our efforts and progress with the Statewide Architectural Survey of Hawaii; happily known as the ... or also known as the SASH. As you know, Madam Chair, we ... S14PD has started ... let me back up. Act 89 was an appropriation from the Legislature to fund $100,000 in this fiscal year next towards doing statewide surveys of residential districts. We are now in the process of actually doing the RLS level field research and data collection, and we did start in Kauai. I'll let Anna tell you how that experience was, but before that, I just want to let you know, Madam Chair, that we did meet with Kauai Representatives, as well as your Mayor, to inform ... as well as your Planning Department, to inform them of our progress. All being very supportive, and as I'm hearing it, Madam Chair, that the team did an excellent job, and I think we're really excited about, you know, about our progress. The second part of this, Madam Chair, is the context studies. We just sent up our solicitations for architectural firms to help us do those studies. So just as a reminder, there is the data collection component, as well as the context studies, where we plan to, you know, include oral histories of these areas to make them more relevant to Kauai community. We just met with your Planning Department and perhaps there is some room in the statewide plan ... not statewide plan... What's it called? Ms. Broverman: The County Plan. Mr. Nui Yoon: County Master Plan. That maybe some of that data can be useful toward informing that plan. If there are no questions for me, Madam Chair, I'll turn it over to Anna. Ms. Schneider: Are there any questions from the Commission? Larry. Mr. Chaffin: I have a question concerning your title referring to architectural. In my opinion, and I believe it's the State requirement that if you use that term, "architect", "architectural", anything referring to that means that you are a licensed architect in good standing. Mr. Nui Yoon: Madam Chair, I would ask if this would be put out of order at this time, as this is not the agenda on the matter, but if you'd like, I can address this question. February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 4 Okay. So Madam Chair, the State requirement... the actual State requirement is that the Architecture Branch Chief, to qualify for Secretary of Interior Standards, just has to have a degree in architecture with the relevant experience. It does not state that the Architecture Branch Chief needs to be a practicing, licensed architect in good standing, and in fact, this title has been in place ... I want to say for the past twenty (20) years, Madam Chair. If there is any, you know, issue with that, then that would have to be taken up with the Chair of the Department of Land and Natural Resources. But as far as I'm concerned, Madam Chair, my title is not, you know, important in the way in the matter in which it was presented. It's just to inform people that there are three (3) branches within the State Historic Preservation Division; one (1) being Architecture, one (1) being Archaeology, and the third being History and Culture. Thank you, Madam Chair. Ms. Schneider: Thank you. Any other questions? Stephen. Mr. Long: Yeah, I have a follow-up question. I just wanted to confirm that in the past we've discussed that the historical neighborhood districts would be done in two (2) phases. The first phase we recommended four (4) or five (5) neighborhoods to take a look at, and I'm just hoping that we'll have a chance next year, next round, to follow up with the other four (4) or five (5). Mr. Nui Yoon: Madam Chair, absolutely. And you know, it was this Commission that helped inform us for the first round of committees [sic], and we thank this Commission because it was great advice. Going forward for the next fiscal year, we'll come back to this Commission and ask for the next (inaudible). Mr. Long: Thank you for being here, and thank you for being so clear and following up on our discussions in the past. Mr. Nui Yoon: Thank you. Mr. Long: Thank you. Ms. Broverman: So Madam Chair, I wanted to give a brief overview of how our surveys went last week. We started in Hanapepe on Tuesday, and then we surveyed Hanalei on Wednesday, and then Lihu`e Town Tracks and Kapa`a on Thursday. We, in Hanapepe, focused on the Hanapepe commercial town area with the residents that are in that circle on the bend of the river as well. We also surveyed the Hanapepe Swinging Bridge. From there, in Hanalei, we did all of Weke Road and we ran out of time during that survey, but we are planning to come back next month to finish that up. And then for Kapa`a, we went to the old Pineapple Cannery Plantation Manager's housing, and then we did all of Lihu`e Town Tracks, and actually some neighborhoods even farther east of that area because we had extra time. But whenever we were out in the field, we had a lot of people come up to us and ask us what we were doing. They axe very interested, but we had all positive feedback. Once we told them that we were looking at the architectural character of places in the histories and we weren't the tow people, it was ... we were very well received. I just wanted to say it was a really great kickoff to February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 5 our surveys, and we appreciate all the help you guys did in pointing out the neighborhoods to survey. We had a really fantastic time. Ms. Schneider: And the CLG funds for 2015, have they all been spent already? Ms. Broverman: No. There are some available still. We were trying to create projects for context studies; for each CLG to create a context study for that grant cycle. We are still discussing with the National Parks Service if we can help the County with matching funds with some of our State funds. So once we clear that information up, we will let you guys know so that we can move forward on that, Madam Chair, Ms. Schneider: And there was discussion whether some of those funds could be used for a Historic Planner. Did you ever clarify whether that was a possibility? Ms. Broverman: National Parks Service still hasn't gotten back to me on that one, but we are setting up a call with them soon, hopefully next week, so I'll make sure to ask that question whenever I talk to them. Ms. Schneider: Do you know how much funds are left in the 2015 budget? Ms. Broverman: It's approximately ... about $50,000, Ms. Schneider: And that's for all four (4) counties? Ms. Broverman: Yes, for all four (4)... or three (3) counties. Yes, but just a reminder, too, the 2015 fiscal year for the Federal cycle is closing and the 2015 grant will end in September of this year, but the 2016 grant cycle has just started, so try to think of some great projects that you guys can put forward. Deputy Planning Director Kaaina Hull entered the meeting at 3:10 p.m. Ms. Broverman: The sooner the better so that we don't get stuck in a crunch this time next year with the 2016 funds. Ms. Schneider: Thank you. Ms. Arinaga: I have a question for you. Can you refresh my mind and tell me where the Plantation Manager's Home is in Kapa`a? Ms. Broverman: Sure. It is right next to Waipouli Beach Park. And also, which steam or river is right next to it? Pat, do you recall? Ms. Griffin: It's the Baby Beach section, I believe. Ms. Arinaga: Okay. February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 6 Ms, Griffin: Makai of the (inaudible). Ms. Arinaga: Right, okay. I know where the Baby Beach is. So in reference to the beach, where is the home? Ms. Broverman: They are right on the beach. It's in between Kuhio Highway and the ocean. Ms. Griffin: May I? Ms. Schneider: Go ahead, Pat Ms. Griffin: It's not one Manager's home. It was the general...the houses that, essentially, management lived in. Ms. Arinaga: Okay, I was just going by her information when you said it was the Manager's home, so I just wanted to check. Thank you. Mr. Nui Yoon: Madam Chair, now that you did bring up fiscal year funding or funding in general, what we are trying to do is be proactive about the County funding mechanisms, so we met with Maui County's Mayor and Finance Director, and actually learned that the Mayor has discretionary funds that he could match the CLG funds with. It's not the same here in Kauai, but what I'm saying, Madam Chair, is that going forward, we are going to try and figure out, you know, at the County level, what needs to happen so that the projects that you guys are recommending can be funded in a manner and efficient timeframe so we can get these projects done. Ms. Schneider: Yes, thank you. Any other questions? Anymore discussion? Thank you Mr. Nui Yoon: Thank you, Madam Chair, Ms. Arinaga: Thank you. Ms. Higuchi-Savegusa: I notice we didn't call for public testimony for this (inaudible). Ms. Schneider: Is there anyone from the public that would like to come up and speak? Nancy? Nancy McMahon: I am Nancy McMahon and I'm here really with the Parks and Recreation, and that was... I came up here because you folks, and I think I've talked to Kaaina, what you would like to do because you wanted to nominate things to the register that were part of Parks and Recreation's facilities that they owned, and so I probably need to know kind of where we need to go with that; that would maybe be a project that we could put for funding in. We were also talking about a curation facility and trying to get some of the County archaeological collections that are with the private firms back to the County of Kauai, and at least provide a facility where future research could be done there, and looking for some kind of building space within that part of that process. I don't know if they were able to talk to and verify whether... usually CLG doesn't pay for hard funds, that I recall, but things may have changed since I've been at SHPD, or was at February 25, 2016 KI-IPRC Meeting Minutes Page 7 SHPD. But they could pay for guidelines and rules, and then we could also pay for professional services to help get those nominations on board. I have talked to Don Hibbard about doing a few of them because I've work with him on another project that we just finished up. Ms. Schneider: And he's no longer with the State? Ms, McMahon: He's not. He's on his own, so that's correct. Mr. Hull: Yeah, so just to give some background, at the last meeting, there were discussions of the Department coming back with, say, recommendations for applications for CLG funds in the 2015 and 2016 years. The 2015 year, because the timeline is such a crunch, the Department has... outside of those educational types of things, because there is such a tight timeline, we're very cautious about going after those monies. I think if Kaiwi guys come back with the other stuff that he was talking about with the Federal folks. But the 2016, three (3) potential projects the Department was looking at and talking with Nancy and other individuals is that the first... The first two (2) are actually looking at possibly applying for CLG funds for consultation purposes for nomination to the register. The two (2) structures that we would be looking at would be, one (1), a County facility, which is the War Memorial Convention Hall, and seeing if CLG funds could be utilized for, essentially, the hiring of a consultant to go through the nomination process for the War Memorial Hall. The other property is a private residence in Hanalei; commonly referred to as the Sloggett House. The landowner has expressed interest and a desire to have their property put on the register, so that's another potential project. And then the third one, which Nancy alluded to, is the need for Kauai to have a repository or curation facility for those archaeological finds that are, essentially, unearthed, say, during the construction of a road or highway. Those generally get...correct me if I'm wrong, Nancy, but those, .because there is no facility here, it has to be shipped over to Oahu, and to have that in place here and looking at a potential site for that. So those are three (3) kind of loose recommendations that the Department wanted to kind of bounce of you folks loosely here to see if there is an interest, and then we can go into further research, as far as actually getting up a potential draft application form or a presentation for each of those three (3). If there's any objections to any of those three (3), then we can just say okay, we are not going to move on. The one that is, of course, I think, somewhat... some may be leery of is going after CLG funds for a consultant for a private residence. Myles and I, and other staff members had discussions; is that appropriate to go after public monies to help a private residence get on the list when, in fact, they already have an interest? And so that's for you folks to discuss. Ultimately, we kind of looked at it as, until we have the problem of private property and applicants climbing over each other to get access to CLG funds for a nomination to the register, until that problem happens, we may want to try to help these guys out as much as we possibly can because we realize it's been over a decade since Kauai has put anything on the register. Ms. Schneider: But the War Memorial is certainly eligible. Ms. McMahon: Right. Mr. Helder: Nancy, is this, possibly, anything that can interface with what Pila Kikuchi was trying to do? February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 8 Ms. McMahon: Well, here's my history on the curation facility repositories that we're talking about. It started, actually, when I was at SHPD as the Kauai Archaeologist here and Ross Cordy was my boss. He actually approached the State Legislation to look at ... and this is when we were fairly well off, the economy was good... and we were kind of looking at purchasing properties, too, and so they had given me a list of things to look at. And so he went there to approach that they fund monies for all the counties to get facilities for them because what was happening is, technically and legally, the artifacts, the scientific material that was collected still belongs to the landowner, but most landowners don't know what to do with it. It's not something that ... Lenny, actually, (inaudible) asked me if we could give it back to cultural descendants, but that would be ... I wouldn't want the County to get into the mess of trying to figure out who is the right cultural descendant to give that to. It's really scientific material to be used so we don't have to continue to do excavation or disturb things, but we might find other things that might lead to research or new scientific methods have come up to date things or do analysis to different things. That's sort of where it started. Pila, then, was going to try to do something... and he still has his collection. I believe it's still up there. It never went any further than the thought. They had changed from the Chancellor, then, at the University to different heads now, and I had kind of talked to them a few times when I was flying back and forth, and running SHPD, about trying to push that again. And what's happened here now, most people still think of me as an archaeologist, and most people ... and some of the firms now, have come to me and said here, here's what we collected from the Pono Kai wall, and I see a box coming at me, and I'm like... So I will now be ... and I don't want that because there are rules of how you have to accept those things, and that would be some of the guidelines that I'd want to be developed. We don't ... you know, it's really they have field notes and photographic records, and all that has to come organized so it's in a certain manner to you; not just hodgepodge. And I'm not sticking it in my corner at my office because it'll... once it starts, it'll never stop, and I won't be the... and that's not ... what I don't want. So that was why I thought like, well maybe we better do this the right way and set this up. And then when we were in the... at SHPD when we were, sort of, in the red category with the Parks Service, I actually was tasked with bringing this up again and coming up with guidelines for the curation facility. SHA, the Study for Hawaiian Archaeology, actually has developed some. I took from three (3) other states and kind of have a draft. I still have my files on that, so I kind of have an idea and that was sort of the idea, and I kind of wanted to partner with the Historical Society because I don't think we have the money for a position either, but what I ... but Helen Wong that works there, worked for a firm for years and she's also a Librarian and she's an Archivist. She's actually a Certified Archivist, so she actually knows those guidelines better than I do and I would partner with them, as a partnering facility to ... and then so you still kind of ... CLG...it's a State, County, and a nonprofit entity trying to partner to kind of resolve this issue. And it isn't just Hawai`i's problem, it's actually kind of a nationwide problem about curation facilities. Mr. Helder: Is KCC interested at all? Ms. McMahon: I never got ... I think what... Pila wanted to build a whole new building for it, and I think they didn't have the funds. I don't...I somewhat know where some of his collection went. I don't even think they all know where it's at. It never got them to move beyond that, you know. Yeah. It's worth approaching them again. February 25, 2016 K11PRC Meeting Minutes Page 9 Mr. Helder: Yeah, it sounds like it. Good luck with that. S. Schneider: Thank you, Nancy Ms, McMahon: The other... just another tidbit that on said in talking to him, and Anne may know more about this, but Don did a bunch of brochures before, too, in looking at helping ... I think brochures on either the nomination process or historic homes. He mentioned that to me as another thing that could be tailored to Kauai again, and publishing some of those again, too. Ms. Schneider: Thank you. Any questions? Mr. Chaffin Jr.: I have a question. It involves...do the owners of these properties realize once they are on the register that they have very strict requirements that they can't remodel, they can't resell, they can't do this, that, and the other thing? Am I correct in thinking that? Ms. Schneider: No. Ms. McMahon: No. (Laughter in background) But it wasn't really my question to answer. No, they don't ... I mean, it's really a status thing. There is a tax benefit to them on the State Register for the County, but... Mr. Hull: Yeah, and at the end of the day, these properties that go on the list can be resold. They function just as private properties. It's just a type of overlay, essentially, on the structure or site. And it depends on the manner in which the nomination was made as to what those restrictions are. I mean, if the nomination highlights a particular staircase or banister in the structure, then yeah, to take that away or remove it, there will be some... it won't be as easily as ... but if, you know, if the structure is nominated in a manner in which the focus is primarily on the exterior, then interior renovations, generally, are fine. And I know Kaiwi guys can speak to a much more detailed level as far as the restrictions and prohibitions, as well as the allowances that sites on the register can do. Mr. Chaffin Jr.: Thank you Mr. Helder: They can also remove it from the register, and they can demolish the building. Those are two (2) things that they can do. Ms. McMahon: And it doesn't open it ... they don't have to show it to the public either. It's not something that ... it's still aprivate residence. Ms. Griffin: Madam Chair, I have a question, again, about the funds, but it's not directed to Nancy's presentation, and that is going back to the 2015 funds. One of the things that we tallied about, and I don't know how long it takes to put together an application or some kind of request, but we have talked periodically about the need, the continuing need, for training. For what is our responsibility on this Commission, what are the rules and standards that we function with. We have several new members and I'm hoping that it wouldn't take ... it wouldn't be a burden on the February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 10 Planning Department Staff to put together a proposal, and it wouldn't be an overwhelming difficulty to plan having someone come. I think I mentioned a month or two ago that several of us went to Kona, two (2) Decembers ago, with the NAAPC, National Alliance ... NAPC, of Preservation Commissions, and one (1) of our trainers was Jack Williams, who, when David Helder and I first sat on this Commission in 2001, came to Kauai and gave us really fabulous training. So I would recommend that if there is any way for us to bring somebody here, have the Commission dedicated to clearing their calendar for that training day. It would benefit all of us, so that's one (1) thing in the next year's fund, too, but if these funds are getting unused, that seems like a natural... I also want to speak to the very important task that we are tasked with by ordinance in establishing our Commission, and that is the encouragement in putting things on the State and National Register. I believe that there are numerous County -owned structures, State-owned too for that matter that are just waiting to be honored in this way. There are many pavilions in our parks that are over fifty (50) years old and were built at a time when we were really celebrating Statehood or earlier. There are historic bridges that people have been coming to us for some years now for assistance in doing that. And I fear ... because so much of our law and standards in, not just this Commission, but in our governmental processes that are built on precedent, I fear using that public money to... for the development of a private nomination because so many people who have done it... I was recently appointed to the Kauai Historic Places Review Board, and you know, there were (inaudible) and properties that are private properties that people have hired private contractors like Don Hibbard to create the nomination. And I just feel like there may be some unintended consequences that will live long beyond when I have retired from this Commission. So I believe that it's a legitimate use for us to look at funds for placing structures on the register and I think that looking at what's available in the County, and potentially the State, is our best route to go because they are just waiting for us to recognize them. Thank you. Mr. Helder: One (1) other point. I'm real familiar with this building and the renovation that's been done in the last decade, and this has been altered quite a bit. I don't know that this would ... under what I know it takes to qualify for the National Register, the alterations of this have been substantial enough that I don't think it would qualify, frankly, to the ... that's from seeing it all these years, so this is an interesting question. Mr. Hull: Yeah, and I think to the point, I mean, it's a good discussion point because we always go back to resources and we do have that line item in this year's budget to hopefully get a Historic Planner. And I wish I could say that, you know, we have a Planner in-house that I could designate this and be working on nominations. Quite frankly, we don't ... I can't ... we just don't have the resources, so it's kind of saying... and I wish we did have a Planner that would be able to say, I'll be doing public facilities, as well as availing his service to the private sector to say I will be walking these nominations through because I think we have seen people knocking on our door saying I want to nominate something, and somehow, somewhere, someway, it falls by the wayside. So that's saying if we had the Planner that could say I'll lend the services and I'll walk this particular property or this structure through the nomination process because it is the task of the Department and this Commission to bring nominations for the list. That's essentially why I was putting it out there is, I wish my Department could provide that service, we just don't have the staffing and the February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 11 resources, and to say maybe the monies are available... And I actually meant to talk with Kaiwi and Anna folks. We actually had a conference call scheduled two (2) weeks ago specifically on this issue and the expenditure of CLG funds. I ended up missing the conference call, and then Anna folks were doing the survey, so we've been missing each other on having this specific discussion. I don't know if they want to comment further on... Mr. Nui Yoon: He missed the call. (Laughter in background) (Inaudible) Mr. Helder: Now, I understand, as I recall, it's been some years now, but the Park Department at the Federal level will provide assistance; getting stuff through the nomination process. Isn't that what you remember? If you put something through and it's got problems, they will assign somebody to help pull that through. They really gave us a long training on what the processes were that they did that. What I don't know about is at the State level, whether they have somebody now that can help walk these things through. I don't think at the County level there's really an issue, but it's at the State and the Federal level that would be more the case. Is that...? Mr. Nui Yoon: Madam Chair, if you can just restate what exactly you want SHPD to respond to. There were a bunch of... So is it State Register or National Register that you want? Mr. Helder: What we are discussing here is using funds, CLG funds, at the County level to aid in putting something on the register; whether it be private or whether it be public. My understanding was, in our training, that at the Federal level, if something is going to be applied to the National Historic Register, when the application is made and if it's flawed or if it needs more work, they will supply somebody that will aid in correcting those errors so that it will get through at the Federal level. Usually prior to applying at the Federal level, it goes on State Historic. I don't know now what the situation is at State Historic; whether they are supplying somebody to aid in applications to the State Register or not. Can you address that? Ms. Broverman: Sure. So how the process would work is that a ... anybody can write the nomination and nominate it. And whenever the nomination is complete in their minds, they'll submit it to our office, and at that time, one (1) of our staff members, say myself or Lexi or another one of us, would review that nomination to make sure that its complete and it fits the standards that are outlined in our administrative rules, and then we also look at the National Register guidelines. Once we do that, we'll say if we think that it's complete or not. Or else, we can give recommendations as to what information you should add or not add. Mr. Helder: Okay. Ms. Broverman: We won't actually add that information for you. Mr. Helder: Right. But you will guide somebody through. Ms. Broverman: Yes, Mr. Helder: That's the question that I'm asking is that... February 25, 2016 KFIPRC Meeting Minutes Page 12 Ms. Broverman: We will guide through, but we just won't provide the information. Mr. Helder: Yes, right, okay. Ms. Schneider: Is that clarified? Mr. Helder: Yes. Okay, thanks. Ms. Broverman: You're welcome. Mr. Nui Yoon: Oh, and Madam Chair, I just wanted to follow up on Nancy's previous comments about the archaeological repository. Currently, Madam Chair, there is a House Bill 2602, and it's a historic preservation bill that SHPD is monitoring at the moment, which appropriates funds for DLNR to study the size and storage (of) archaeological collections. It was just referred to Water and Land and Finance as of February 1st, 2016. Ms. Schneider: So it's in the process? Mr. Nui Yoon: Yes, Madam Chair. Mr. Helder: Which...where is that? Mr. Nui Yoon: HB2602. House Bi112602. Mr. Helder: Oh, okay. But where is the building located that you axe referring to? Is it on this island? Mx. Nui Yoon: Madam Chair, this is just an appropriation bill that appropriates funds for DLNR to study what the size and requirements would be for a repository for archaeological... Mr. Helder: Oh, okay. Ms. Schneider: Thank you. Mr. Nui Yoon: Thank you, Madam Chair. Ms. Schneider: You'll let us know how the bill progresses? Mr. Nui Yoon: Will do, Madam Chair. Ms. Schneider: Thank you guys. Mr. Hull: Could I ask a question? Have you folks received applications for CLG funds for, essentially, consultation purposes for nomination? Or is that kind of rare? February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 13 Ms. Broverman: Since I've been reviewing applications, I haven't received one. But on Hawaii Island for 2016, their CLG is looking at getting funds to help them nominate an archaeological site. So they went to get the information for an AIS, which will provide the context and history of the site. I think it's something that the KHPRC should look into because it is something that doesn't happen very frequently, but it should happen a lot. And especially if you haven't had a property nominated... Mr. Hull: Over a decade, yeah. Ms. Broverman: Yeah, for over a decade. Mr. Hull: No, and that's why, and because just knowing the way the government processes and the way the Planning Department works with permits all the time, we do guide applicants through the process, and when it is a pro se situation, a lot of times it can take a lot longer because they are not as familiar. Sometimes they will just fall by the wayside because of their frustration with various requirements and rules and regulations. The Department can guide them, but it cannot draft their applications insofar as SHPD can guide them, but it cannot draft the application nomination forms so that it meets the standards. Mr. Nui Yoon: Also, Madam Chair, as a matter of clarity, the State nominations, once they go through their process with SHPD, are then nominated at the State Historic Places Review Board. At which point, that board may make a determination whether to place it on the State and recommend to the National Register. For National Register, currently, the Deputy SHPO, which is Alan Downer, the Administrator, will then route that nomination to the keeper for consideration. Ms. Schneider. Thank you. Mr. Nui Yoon: Thank you, Madam Chair. Ms. Arinaga: I have a question. Mr. Long: I have a question. Ms. Schneider: Go ahead, Stephen. Mr. Long: Sorry, thank you. What's the specific date deadline for applying for the 2015 $50,000 CLG monies? And have you received any application requests? Ms. Broverman: So last year, I created a timeline for people to apply for projects, and I don't recall off the top of my head what it was, but the deadline passed and we didn't receive anything. So at that point, we decided to just come to you guys and look at what the projects.., or what projects you are interested in ... say education, context studies, that type of thing ... and we would direct the projects to you guys. For 2016, the deadline that I created was mid -January, and again, I didn't receive any applications. So... February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 14 Mr. Long: You did? Ms. Broverman: I did not...from any of the CLGs. Mr, Long: I think it's important to be sensitive to the Planning Department Staff and give them ample time to prepare acceptable applications, so I would support Pat's thoughts that if can, and timelines tight for specific project applications, that those funds be allocated to education. Mr. Helder: Yeah, I agree. Ms. Broverman: Okay. Mr. Helder: I think all of us (inaudible). Ms. Schneider: Yeah, thank you Ms. Griffin: Madam Chair. So what would that take for our over -worked Kauai Department of Planning Staff to get something to you? (Laughter in background) Ms. Broverman: The project proposals are these applications that are about three (3) pages long and it just states who the project applicant is, why you need that project, or how you are going to use the funds; basically a budget. So they just fill out that application, and then send it to us. I think where a lot of the time comes in is that you guys only meet once a month and so creating projects and deciding on what to do once a month is difficult. So maybe... Mr. Hull: For the three (3) that we were just discussing for the 2016 funds, ultimately, we wanted to get your feedback and then given this feedback, we were going to come back... essentially, we could come back with three (3) applications for your review and action on the next meeting. For the 2015 funds, yeah, I mean, we could fill out the forms, but it's probably past, right? Ms. Broverman: For 2015, because the project schedule is so tight, we can help you fill out the forms. Mr. Nui Yoon: So Madam Chair, again, as a point of clarity, 2015...the deadline has lapsed. So I only say that cautiously because your recommendation then goes to your County Councii for approval for the matching funds, then we have to route it to National Parks Service for their review, so that takes time and that's why Anna puts a deadline of, on or around, January to get it done. But like I said in my opening comments, Madam Chair, we are trying to ... I'm trying to identify how to shorten and curtail some of those processes so that we can get the funding on a much more efficient... in efficient time. Ms. Schneider: Thank you. APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA (Continued) February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 15 Ms. Schneider: So we are going to go back to Approval of the Agenda and Approval of the 2016 Meeting Minutes. Approval of the Agenda. Discussion? Mr. Helder: No. Ms. Schneider: No? Make a motion. Ms. Griffin: I move that we approve the agenda. Ms. Arinava: I second. Ms. Schneider: Thank you. Approval of the January 7ti'... Approval of the agenda. Can we have a vote everybody? (Unanimous voice vote) Motion carries 8:0. APPROVAL OF THE JANUARY'7, 2016 MEETING MINUTES Ms. Schneider: Approval of the January 7, 2016 Meeting Minutes. Do I have a motion? Mr. Helder: So moved. Mr. Chaffm Jr.: Second. Ms. Schneider: Discussion? Everybody in favor? (Unanimous voice vote) Motion carries 8:0. ANNOUNCEMENTS AND GENERAL BUSINESS MATTERS Ms. Schneider: Announcements and General Business Matters. COMMUNICATIONS Ms. Schneider: Do we have any communications? Or Pat, do you want to speak about the...? ANNOUNCEMENTS AND GENERAL BUSINESS MATTERS (Continued) Ms. Griffin: Well, Madam Chair, L..on the General Business Matters, our business of the KHPRC, were we going to clarify a little bit further about use of our applications for funding for next year? As Anna said, we only meet once a month. Ms. Schneider: We would ... how would you like... February 25, 2016I ITPRC Meeting Minutes Page 16 Mr. Helder: I'd like to comment on this, I really would, because when everybody is describing all of this shortened time and how it becomes impossible and the deadlines past, and we brought up, I think seven (7) months ago, the need for an educational component and that we would like to see some of the CLG funds go toward that. And if we can't... it's very frustrating if we are relying on the Planning Department to bring that forward because we do meet once a month and they don't bring it forward to the point where the deadlines are past, then it's ... are we ever going to get a component? When do we have to ask? Two (2) years in advance? I don't know. I think what Pat was saying was really important that any funds that are not expended and prior to a deadline should be assigned to an educational component. Ms. Schneider: I agree. Mr. Helder: Automatically. So that we don't just have funds that are available to us pass, and that's what it looks like has done now. I don't know whether we need to put an action in place saying we write the application and give it to the Planning Commission [sic] to submit, or we request directly from the State that we are able to submit what we need because this is ... this isn't functional. Ms. Schneider: Kaaina, do you have any...? Mr. Hull: Yeah, I mean, there is nothing that precludes this body from drafting it up and submitting it and taking action on it. If you are directing the Planning Department to specifically draft it up, we can do that. At this point, there was interest expressed in an educational component, and like I said, we had planned to have a conference call with SHPD two (2) weeks ago. I apologize. I was sick that day. I did try to reach out to them, but they were busy on their surveys over here and throughout the rest of the State. If you are asking us to specifically come up with an educational plan for the next meeting, we can do that. Mr. Helder: I'm thinking I would like something different. I move that we make an educational committee; that we have three (3) members of this board sit on an educational committee and decide what would be possible to bring it before this committee and have the committee say ... or have the Commission say yes or no, I want you to draft something, and then go ahead and draft it, and submit it so that we are within our own goals relative to this, and we don't have to wait for somebody to interpret an interest into an action. Ms. Schneider: Sounds like a plan. Mr. Helder: Okay. So I move that we make an educational committee. Ms. Higlrchi-Savegusa: So you folks are ... just to clarify, you want to ... you are establishing like a... Ms. Schneider: PIG. Ms. Higuchi-Savegusa: Permitted Interaction Group committee. February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 17 Mr. Helder: Yes, that's right. Ms. Higuchi-Sayegusa: Okay. One second. Ms. Arinaga: So my own question would be, are we allowed to submit a plan? Or do we have to go through Planning? Mr. Helder: He just said we could. Ms. Arinaga: For the funding. We can, right? That's what I want to clarify. Mr. Hull: You can take an action on a plan, yeah, correct. Ms. Schneider: We need a second on David's motion. Ms. Arinaga: Okay, I second. Ms. Schneider: All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote) Ms. Higuchi-Sayegusa: Wait a minute. Hold on. Back up. I'm just trying to get to my ... just make sure we are all doing this correctly. One second. Ms. Schneider: Jay Administrator Furfaro: Again, Jay Furfaro, Boards and Commissions Administrator. I just wanted to offer a little k6kua here. So again, as you get into an item, you get a second, you have a discussion. In the discussion, it seems the question is, can you form a subcommittee? You can form a subcommittee. It can be no more than the minority of your body. Your body is nine (9). Okay, so it can't be more than four (4) individuals. It needs to be scheduled, posted, and announced that you have a place to meet. And whatever your committee discussed, you have to come back and actually make a report to the full body. Okay, so that's one (1) component. Ms. Higuchi-Sam tg isa: Perhaps the best thing for now is ... this is brought up in the general business... as a general business matter. For the next meeting, we can put it on the agenda on whether or not to form this Permitted Interaction Group, and then you can have the discussion of what's the scope and purpose of that PIG, and we can go forward and vote for that. Administrator Furfaro: To follow up on what the counsel has just shared with you, I would take advantage of the fact you would put that on the agenda as a discussion item under J, which is usually your educational pieces, and from there, you could have a pretty healthy discussion about that process. I can help the Planning Department to do any research you need on that as it relates to OIP, but I would certainly not want to keep broadening this discussion today without us getting into, maybe, some conflicts about procedure. Mr. Helder: That wouldn't fall under J today on the agenda (inaudible)? February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 18 Administrator Furfaro: But it's (the educational piece) not on the agenda. Ms. Schneider: It's not on the agenda. It needs to be an agenda item. Mr. Helder: Oh I see. Okay. Administrator Furfaro: The answer to your question is yes, it would fall under J, but you need it on the agenda. And also, fox clarification, as I'm listening in the back did I hear that you wanted some tracking on Bill 2602? Ms. Schneider: We'd like to know. Administrator Furfaro: Okay, very good. My office...for your general information, I track all the bills for the County. And in fact, if I see something of interest, I'll make sure that, as it progresses, I send it over to Planning... Ms. Schneider: Thank you. Administrator Furfaro: And I can assist them from there. So I just want to confirm you have imerest in, .I Ms. Schneider: Yes, we do. Administrator Furfaro: Following 2602. Ms. Schneider: Yes. Administrator Furfaro: Okay, thank you. Ms. Schneider: Thank you very much. Mr. Helder: I would like to withdraw the motion that I made and make a different motion. I would like to move that to the agenda for next meeting that we discuss creation of an educational committee. Ms. Higuchi-Saved So back to the withdrawal, do we have the second withdrawal also? Okay, to withdraw your second? Ms. Arinava: Second to withdraw. Ms. Higuchi-Sayegusa: Okay, and then now you are interested inputting it on the next agenda? Mr. Helder: Yes. February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 19 Ms. Hi chiug�Sa e u sa: Okay. Mr. Helder: I'm moving to put it on the agenda to create an educational committee. Ms. Schneider: And do we have a second on that? Ms. Arinaga: Second. Ms. Schneider: And a vote. All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote) Mr. Hull: And if I could... Ms. Higuchi-Saegusa: You don't necessarily vote on that. Administrator Furfaro: (Inaudible) Madam Chair, if a member comes to you and requests something to go on the agenda, you are in control of agenda. Ms. Higuchi-Sayegusa: Yeah, you don't necessarily have to vote on that, but any case ... yeah, Mr. Hull: And if I could also ... because I...just to clarify for the Department, I apologize if the Commission felt frustrated or is upset with the Department being that a request was made some months ago for the educational component. When we thought we had essentially answered that was two (2) months ago when we gave our presentation because the original plan was to have the former County Attorney give his general orientation as an educational component. He was unable to attend because he can't appear before a Board for at least a year after having worked in Civil Service. So both ... myself and the County Attorney went through that slideshow presentation educational component, and we thought that ... I was under the impression that that was in response to the request for the orientation. If we misinterpreted that, I apologize for any offense on that, and... Mr. Helder: No, you didn't misinterpret it. However, it was only one (1) component of something that's really much more complex because the ... a good portion of the laws that govern this body and the actions that we have come from the Federal level, which the County wouldn't cover. Also, some of the educational component would be sometimes involving having somebody come from maybe a mainland historic district, and describe to us how they did it and how they were received at the Federal level. In other words, the educational component that we need, which trains people to do this job, is not just what the County requires; it's on a bigger scale. So while we really appreciated what you guys did, we need more. And probably the stuff that we need to know and other people need to know, here, is stuff that we've been trained on earlier, and say Pat and I would know what those components would be because we've had a lot of them. So it didn't have to do with that you didn't provide everything you needed to provide, but there's more that we need. But thank you. UNFINISHED BUSINESS (Continued) February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 20 Re: Report from investigative committee (Permitted Interaction Group) to discuss and explore draft update of the Kauai Historic Resource Inventory. Once formed and the task completed, the investigative committee will present its findings to the Commission in a duly noticed meeting for decision -making. Ms. Schneider: Going onto the Unfinished Business. Report from the PIG. Pat or Stephen. Ms. Higuchi-Sa egusa: Were there any communications, actually? Did you...? Ms. Schneider: We didn't get any. Ms. Higuchi-Sayegusa: Okay. So just clarifying, no communications on Item G. Okay, so H.1. Ms. Griffin: Thank you, Madam Chair. The Permitted Interaction Group is going through that long inventory that was done a couple of years ago of the Puna District and the Lihu`e Districts for historic buildings/structures. It's in two (2) segments; fifty (50) year and older buildings and thirty-five (35) to forty-nine (49) year old buildings. We've met twice for two (2) or three (3) hours each time, and we are going building by building to assure accuracy and agreement and taking out the structures that we feel are not compliant. Our PIG is our Chair, Anne Schneider, Stephen Long, myself, and Victoria Wichman. So we will continue that process. There are 550 odd on the fifty (50) year and older list and then are another 1,100 or something on the thirty-five (35) to forty-nine (49), so we will not have a conclusion and recommendations to bring you next month, but we are working diligently. Ms. Schneider: Thank you. Mr. Long: And as a specific follow up, out of the 600 structures that axe on the list, we reviewed 115, and of those 115, we've essentially kept 20... approximately 20 on the list, removed approximately 15 or 20, and of the remainder, we've determined that they would need more research or photographs or follow up, which we, the PIG committee, intend to do ourselves in the field in the future. Ms. Schneider: Thank you, Stephen. Mr. Chaffin Jr.: Who's on this committee? Ms. Schneider: Myself, Pat Griffin, Stephen Long, and Victoria Wichman. NEW BUSINESS Re: Former Kauai Police Station TMK: 3-6-002:005 & 022 3060 Umi Street, LYhu`e, Kauai Proposed demolition. February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 21 Ms. Schneider: So New Business. We have the former Kauai Police Station. Mr. Long left the meeting at 3:55 p.m. Paul Tonam: Madam Chair, thank you for...Committee [sic] members, thank you for having us here today. This is Eric Agena, Director of DAGS Kauai. My name is Paul Tonaki. I'm with Mitsunaga & Associates. I'm preparing... I'm a consultant to DAGS, and we are preparing demolition plans for the former Kauai Police Station. I brought copies of the plans that I would like to pass out. Ms. Schneider: Sure. Mr. Tonaki: So yeah, I don't have enough copies for everyone. Maybe you can share. Mr. Long returned to the meeting at 3:56 p.m. Mr. Chaffin Jr.: As an introduction to Mitsunaga &Associates, could you tell me a little bit about them? Are they architects? Engineers? Mr. Tonaki: We are an architectural engineering consulting firm. We have a staff of about six (6) architects, more civil engineers. Our Civil Department is the biggest right now, and we have, I believe, two (2) structural engineers on staff, and one (1) mechanical engineer. So total staff is thirty (30),1.maybe forty (440) people. Ms. Schneider: So it's our understanding you want to demolish this building. Mr. Tonaki: Right. We are here today to present the State's proposal to demolish the former Kauai Police Station. To give you a little history on the building, it was designed by Guy Rothwell. He was a local architect/engineer and it was built in 1951. The original building was a simple courtyard design. It was a linear, one-story building wrapped around an open courtyard. It was a design well -suited to Hawai`i's tropical climate. However, to add needed floor area, the open courtyard was enclosed in the late 1970's, and it would become the building that stands there today. We did that ... my office did that building survey and assessment last year; part of it focused on the historical significance of the building. We concluded that the design ... the original design is very functional, it was very economical, but we didn't find much historic relevance in the building. That survey that you have was submitted to SHPD, and SHPD concurred with our conclusions. There is a letter attached in that survey where they do not object to demolishing the building. The architectural style in the 1950's was a modernist, international style; what is coined as modernist international. The international style was characterized by flat roofs, geometric forms, a lot of glass, strong structural expression of the structural system. By contrast, the police station design is more straightforward and tropical in concept without strong historical elements in the building. February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 22 So today, DAGS is proposing to demolish the vacant, dilapidated structure and in the near future, to use the site for parking. Ms. Schneider: Now, is it brown site because it had those tanks that were leaking? Mr. Tonaki: The tanks were removed, documented, and the removal process was filed with the Department of Health. Ms. Schneider: You won't have to excavate the dirt at...? Mr. Tonaki: No. No. The record of removal is on file with the Department of Health meeting all standards, appropriate standards. Ms. Schneider: Any questions? Discussion? Ms. Griffin: Is he finished? Ms. Schneider: Are you finished? Ms. Griffin: Do you have morel Mr. Tonaki: Except ... I don't know, maybe you can explain, maybe, long-term plans for the site? Eric Agena: Okay, I don't know the proper way to address people, so I just going talk. (Laughter in background) Okay. If you need me to speak more proper English, I can, but I rather talk just off the (inaudible). Basically what is it is that in... Ms. Higuchi-Saegusa: Sorry, did you state your name? Ms. Schneider: Introduce yourself. Mr. Agena: Oh, I'm sorry. My name is Eric Agena, District Engineer with DAGS Kauai. In this area, in particular, we have parking challenges; I guess is a way to put it nicely where even for... If you look at just the State employees that are housed within our facilities in that near area, if every employee had wanted a stall, we don't have nearly enough. And that tends to tax a lot of the surrounding areas and even the County. We get complaints. We can't control where they park their personal vehicles, but you know, they park where they need to park. So what our hope is ... because we know that there is the immediate ... I mean, there is this need, and we have this building that right now is basically an attractive nuisance, yeah? That we can do away with this structure that's really serving no purpose right now; other than to serve as a magnet for odd inquiries, vandalism, that type of thing, and make it into a useable parcel again. In the meantime, what's also happening is DAGS is doing a, I guess, a space needs study to ... which in turn would then influence the master planning for DAGS to then figure out what would be the ... what options we would have for the long-term use of that property, but at least in the meantime, we can have parking available. February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 23 Ms. Arinaga: I have a question. So will the parking be specific for State employees? Or open? Mr. Agena: Okay, with my official hat on...I gotta watch because these things are... Anyway, okay, technically, yes, it is for State. We would have signage up there saying that it is, you know, a regulated parking for the State. Now, what I need to say is, I have my hopes of what it will end up being, which I would then present to our DAGS folks, but I cannot ... I mean, I'm not a dictator. I cannot determine, alone, what we do. But I have some thoughts on how best to use the property, and I hoping that all of that gets taken into consideration. But what I would see ... or what I do believe would end up happening is, yeah, we would have permitted parking... permitted meaning for the State employees or whatever... that would be regulated and monitored by our parking control people. Our parking control staff works on regular working hours. I don't know if you can read into what I just said, but basically... so we would have during work hours, we would be actively regulating who's parking in those areas, and it is actually for State use. If something were to happen during off hours, we would then state that they weren't supposed to be parking there. Ms. Arinaga: So another question, who, then, determines what that area will be? I mean, it sounds like you have your vision of what you would like to see, but who's included in...? Mr. Agena: Again, it would be based on the general needs of DAGS and the State Ms. Arinaga: Okay. Mr. Agena: So yeah, so I have my personal ones that I think would be best for that parcel, but again, I have to vet it through the proper channels. Ms. Arinaga: Thank you. Ms. Schneider: Any other questions? Mr. Chaffin Jr.: I have a comment. I think you've touched on something that's dear to my heart, and that is the parking requirements. In our Code, the parking requirements are far, far, far too limited. We need to have actual parking requirements, and I think this is the place to start that reflects the actuality. Ms. Higuchi-Savegusa: Just to clarify, we're... Ms. Schneider: It's not on the agenda. Ms. Hi ucg hi-Sayegusa: Yeah, we're ... our discussion should be kind of towards the purpose of this Commission. So if there's a ... there might be another way to, you know, or a venue to bring that up, but just to kind of ring the discussion in on, you know, historic preservation interests and the interest of this Commission. Mr. Chaffin Jr.: Well we were talking about parking, and that's... February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 24 Ms. Higuchi-Save�usa: Yeah. I know, I know. I kind of...we kind of let it go, but let's keep it more on (inaudible). Mr. Agena: Sorry, I have a tendency to say more than I should. (Laughter in background) Mr. Hull: I think what the counsel is getting at is that the...DAGS has a proposed use for this site, and as citizens of Lihu`e and Kauai, we all are interested in the overall use, but for the purposes of historic preservation review, we are actually looking at the demolition of the historical structure. Ms. Arinaga: Okay. Mr. Hull: And if we could reserve the comments and discussion for the actual structure Ms. Schneider: Is there any other discussion? Pat? Stephen? Mr. Long: Yeah, this might take some time, so _please be patient with me. On the historical... architectural historical basis, I do find that ... this structure to have some significance, and in a number of ways; both architecturally and its context within the community, you know, as a center core of our downtown. So I would like to just go through your report and ask you some questions, and perhaps you could clarify that. And these do have to do with the architectural integrity of the building, and its historical context. I do believe that ... if you're coming to this Commission, I believe, which is Historic Preservation Review Commission, to present us with a demolition plan for our review is a little bit ahead... getting a little bit ahead of the conversation and discussion about the validity of the building as an architectural significance. So with your report, I'm just going to go through it page by page. On Page 1, I see that you say that it is a ... was a design that was appropriate and specific for Hawaii's tropical climate, which makes it site specific and significant to Hawaiian architecture. I don't see anywhere on your report referenced to the fountain that was in the center of the original building, and I think that was a significant omission and I think that was an important design feature in that building, so it would be nice to be able to see that referenced in your report and documented in some way. As I go through the report, you know, you have a demolition plan of what you called a dilapidated building, but yet, when I read your actual report, you know, the building foundation appears to be in good condition without settling and cracks and whatnot. And actually, I would refer to that as being in excellent condition, as opposed to good condition. I have a question. On the CMU walls, exterior and interior, is there any problem with the tuckpointing? Mr. Tonaki: Not that ... the walls are in good condition. Mr. Long: Well actually, I would, then, identify those as being in excellent condition, rather than good. Good means average. Excellent means there is no settlement cracks or problems with the tuckpointing. February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 25 Same with the interior walls, I would clarify that they are in excellent condition; not good condition. Mr. Tonaki: The interior... they might be ... I wouldn't say excellent condition. Mr. Long: The CMU? 4-inch CMU walls? Mr. Tonaki: Oh, CMU, yeah. I'm talking about more the frames, partition walls. Mr. Long: Right. I'm talking about the 4-inch CMU walls. Mr. Tonaki: Okay, okay Mr. Long: So I would, again, once clarify those as being in excellent condition. It appears that there are a lot of original elements that remain to the building; light fixtures, the windows, the entry door. I'm quoting you, the original windows are still in place. They are in poor condition, and I can see that from the photos, as well as the front entry door. Yet, those could certainly be replicated. In your summary and conclusions on the historical significance, once you tell us what a shame it is that the Hamilton Building was demolished because it represents an international style, and yet, you don't apply those same standards to this building, which not only has the simplicity of the international style to it, but is also specifically appropriate to Hawai`i's tropical climate, which you also mentioned in your report. So quoting Mies van der Rohe, a well-known 1950's architect that "less is more" and "God is in the details of simplicity", I perceive that this building does embrace those philosophies of 1950's international style of Hawaiian atmosphere. I have a specific question about the ADA. What ... well, it's difficult to determine from the plans that were provided what the dimensions of the toilet rooms, bathrooms, and men's room were. Can you tell us what those were? Mr. Tonaki: Not off hand, but they were in tight spaces, so they wouldn't meet ADA requirements. Mr. Long: What is tight? What dimensions? A 5-foot turning radius is what's required for ADA in a bathroom. So is it tight like 4' 11"? Or...? Mr. Tonaki: I recall there are ... that there is not enough room around the toilets or ... there is not enough wheelchair maneuvering space around the toilet. I'm just going by memory. And around the doors, maneuvering space at the doors to enter and exit. Mr. Long: But the fact is you really don't know. You state that there appears to be prohibitive retrofitting to meet ADA requirements, but yet, you can't tell us specifically what the dimensions of those rooms are. February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 26 Mr. Tonaki: We didn't go and measure, but just generally looking at the bathrooms, there would be substantial work to be done to have it conform to ADA standards. Without specifically saying well, this was 3 feet, this was ... there was only one (1) foot at the side of the door, just generally we saw that there would be substantial renovation to the bathrooms. Mr. Long: What other ADA retrofitting would need to be done to bring it up to code? Mr. Tonaki: It's mainly creating space, additional space, in the bathrooms, and new fixtures. Definitely new.. wwell the fixtures would need to be changed anyway, so... Mr. Long: Pardon? Mr. Tonaki: The fixtures would...they are old...they would need to be replaced anyway; the plumbing fixtures. And there would just be a lot of demolition of walls around the fixtures to create space in the bathrooms to meet ADA standards. Mr. Long: I understand that the plumbing fixtures may need to be replaced to bring them up to code, but you are showing us photos here, architectural photos, of black holes on Page ... I mean, you can't tell anything about these spaces from the photographs that you took and provided to us. In general, coming before the Commission, we'd like to have photographs that accurately represent what you are trying to show us. I noted that your electrical consultant and your structural engineering consultant provided clear photographs, but your architectural photographs were clearly taken without a flash and are imperceptible. Mr. Tonaki: Do you have black and white copies? Mr. Long: No, I have color. I have color. Mr. Tonaki: You have color? Mr. Long: Mmhmrn. We11, it's actually black and color. Mr. Tonaki: Black and color? Mr. Long: Correct. I can see the green doorjamb, but I can't see the typical bathroom. So there's really not much information for us to go on other than your opinion, which is that the ADA would take a lot of retrofitting. I have a specific question for DAGS in your parking lot proposal. I've heard a rumor ... not a rumor ... I was in a meeting in which it was expressed by a County official that the parking lot intends to be gravel. What surface do you intend to...? Mr. Agena: The current ... what's presented right now is only for demolition of the building. The future fully developed parking would need to follow on a separate project. February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 27 Mr. Long: And what would be the finish of that parking? Mr. Agena: I would presume pavement, but that's not ... that design hasn't started, Mr. Long: So when I heard about (inaudible). Mr. Agena: But how does this pertain to historical? Mr. Long: I heard a gravel parking lot. Mr. Agena: Understood, but how does this pertain to historical? Mr. Long: It doesn't. Excuse me. Mr. Agena: Okay. Mr. Long: But I would ... it might have some reflection and impact on the historical nature of the downtown area. For instance, like in your city, if somebody were to install a gravel parking lot next to `Iolani Palace, then that would certainly impact the historical nature and atmosphere, contextually, of that important downtown historic area. Mr. Agena: To clarify, I was born and raised here and lived here my entire life. Mr. Long: Right. (Inaudible) Ms. Higuchi-Sayegusa: But any case, we're...the discussion is on the building, right? If you could just focus on the building for now. There is no design, yet, for review. Mr. Long: Okay. So I feel that just...if you ... I believe that this does have some architectural significance to Kauai and there are impacts to a historic structure, and I would ask that you perform an EIS because there are specific impacts to the historical affected structure. You say that there are challenges to parking, but have you conducted a traffic impact study? Mr. Agena: How would a traffic impact study be pertinent to parking? Mr. Long: Before the Commission, you did make a comment and you said you have challenges downtown with parking. I'm curious whether that is an opinion or whether it comes from a traffic impact study. Mr. Agena: It's from personal observation and from constant complaints from patrons, from employees, from staff, so it's not something that I'm pulling out of the air. And again, I was born and raised here. I live in Lfhu`e. I've lived here for... actually born on the west side, but I've lived in Lihu`e since ... for the last, maybe, twenty (20) years, so I'm well ... I understand this area, I understand the sensitivities of the area, I understand the significance of things in the area. When February 25, 2016 KHPAC Meeting Minutes Page 28 I look at this building, contrary to what your ... I kind of have a different view than you, as far as the significance of the facility. Mr. Long: That's fair. Mr. Agena: Because it doesn't...to me, it does not ... the way it sits, the current building, detracts, I feel, from the Lihu`e area. I don't think ... and then to try ... and as the report states, to try and do the work involved to make it into something that is, I guess, maybe to keep what's there versus to make something that is more functional, that will work better within the town as it is now, I think there are significant... more advantages to moving forward with removing that building than there are in trying to make this thing ... to throw the resources at it, to spend the money needed to try and make that building useable again. Mr. Long: Yeah, that's fair and it is an eyesore; that's really clear. Mr. Agena: See, the thing is that... Oh, I'm sorry. Mr. Long: Is there any way that, you know, there could be an adaptive reuse of that building where the State could gain income from it? I mean, I don't know if this is really historically related, but we are talking about restoring a historical ... a potentially historic structure. Is there any way that there could be an adaptive reuse? That you could find a tenant that would be willing to take it over? So that it could add to the ... you know, the pedestrian character of the downtown, as opposed to a parking lot. Mr. Agena: Again, I can see if this was a building that we were talking like, for example, the former Courthouse; when you look at a building of that magnitude, when you see that, when you drive by that. When you're looking at this, the building in question right now, I ... honestly, I mean, the... cost -wise, I mean, we could still make something that is significantly... that's more workable, more useable that is designed specifically for the purpose that we are ... that we would need it for, as opposed to keeping a building for the sake of keeping a building. Again, it doesn't ... when you look at it, 1 mean, anyone walks by and look at it, and to try and say that this is something that is ... I don't know how to word it nicely, but I mean, it's not something that really looks like a building where you feel wow, we gotta ... this thing has to be saved. Mr. Helder: May I interrupt you and just ask you, I mean, subjectively, you are implying that a gravel parking lot is more attractive than this building. And that this building is useless in terms of adaptive reuse for something like a community education center for children, or an art center, or something like that with the building restored to really document the history of Llhu`e around the period of the 50's and 60's. You are also implying that that particular style, architectural style, had no aesthetic benefit to Lpru`e. And based upon those subjective judgements that you are making, our particular board really attempts to promote adaptive reuse and to promote retaining things that have the character that the town originally had. It's not for us to say yes, but it's in a place where we really could use a parking lot instead, so what we are asking you is how much of this is subjective with the idea that what's being written here is really to promote a parking lot? And I think that what Stephen is addressing is that this is part of what is Lihu`e history. You might February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 29 not like it, you know, and you grew up with it and you may think that s a lousy looking building, but on the other hand, it is one of... it is the history of the place. Mr. Tonaki: I'd like to say that Mr. Long brought up the tropical design of the building being site specific, but I think that was totally eliminated by enclosing that courtyard. Ms. Griffin: Madam Chair? Ms. Schneider: Sure, Pat. Mr. Tonaki: So it's no longer a good example of a design that's suitable to the LYhu`e climate Mr. Lon¢: That's a really good point. I did note that in your report. And so I don't know...see SHPD here, but my question to SHPD is that they say, here, that it has had several alterations; when, in fact, it's really only had one (1). My question would be if you remove the alteration to a historic building that makes it affected, then does it not become unaffected? Ms. Schneider: Pat. Ms. Griffin: Madam Chair, thank you. I have much to say as well. First of all, from a local published history of the area, the description of the former Police Station begins by saying the shell of a building that now languishes across Hardy Street from the Courthouse was once among the most appealing headquarters inhabited by a Police force on a tropical island anywhere in the world, and a lot of people felt that way at the time. I also take exception to dismissing Guy Rothwell as just a local architect. Guy Rothwell was a president of the American Institute of Architects, Hawaii Branch. He was the supervising architect of Honolulu Hale; that is the Honolulu City Hall for those of us who live here. He achieved his ... he was registered as a professional engineer and architect by the Territorial Board in 1924 and elected as a member of the American Institute of Architects in 1932. His major buildings include Our Lady of Mystic [sic] Rose Chapel at Chaminade College, Damien High School, Roosevelt High School, ARMCO, the first all metal pleasure craft made in Hawaii. He also worked with craftsman here, understood to (have) built canoes to take to the Seattle World's Fair. He ... in addition to Honolulu Hale, he was involved with the Honolulu Stadium, the King Street, Moanalua, and Wahiawa Bridges... and you all know the Wahiawa Bridge ... O`ahu Railway and Land Depot, the Harris Memorial Church, the Boys Athletic Club [sic] at Palama, the Hilo Armory, First National Bank, Bishop Trust, the Charles Atherton dormitory at UH, the original gymnasium at University of Hawaii, the Beretania, Kalihi, Kaimuki pumping plants for Sewer and Water Commission, among other things. He designed our Shell Station, he designed the All Saints Episcopal Church in Kapa`a, and he did hundreds of buildings around the State that are well-known and respected in a way that this building should be, too. This building is eligible for the National Register under criteria A and C. Criteria A is buildings that are associated with events that have made a significant contribution to the broad patterns of our history. And this building... yes, you are right ... it was in 1951 that it started being built, but February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 30 it was authorized under Act 277 of the Session Laws of Hawaii in 1945, and you all will recall that 1945 was the end of World War II and there had been Marshall Law here, there was tremendous uncertainty, and the movement for unionization, labor unions on the plantation, had been in (inaudible) from the beginning of the war to the end, so you have a territory that is just coming out of the war, plantations have changed and a whole new system is about to begin, and the development of a new police station, getting all those cops out of the second floor of the ... where the County Council now meets ... and in a place of their own was a very important thing. Session Laws in 1949, Item 60 was construction of police building and the loan fund. Again, that was after a major strike that had resulted in unionization. So 1951, again, you dismissed with a straw man by talking about international style as if that was the only style that any buildings where built in. So those of you who are here, think about Ltgiu`e United Church, the Hart Wood Building, with the double -pitched roof and the moss rock; that was 1951. The DLNR, Department of Land and Natural Resources, beautifully puts out calendars every year, and in 2005, they did one on architecture in the 50's. Here is the L-ihu`e United Church. There are several in here, but I won't take too much. This is the Waiola Congregational Church in Lahaina. There is nothing international about its style. One more, the Waikiki-Kapahulu Library, and there is only a detail of it, but if you google it, you can see that, once again, this library was not an international style. There was a very strong and vibrant movement at the time for a tropical identification to our buildings. I might add the ILWU Building that's on Hardy Street is also in the 1950's, and very few people would consider an A -frame as either ... as international style, and that was designed by an honored architect, Alfred Preis, who also designed the Arizona Memorial. Oh, and Criteria C is, that embody distinctive characteristics of a type, period, or method of construction, or that represent the work of a master, or that possess high artistic values. We talk about history as not being a beauty contest, so our own personal opinions of whether the State building is a fabulous example of international styles... (Inaudible) Kagawa who also did the building across... where ... Kalanimoku Building in Honolulu, but this is the work of a master and it does embody distinctive characteristics of type, period, and method of construction. And I might add, yes, the center courtyard was covered in the 70's, but they did not change the roofline of the exterior. The courtyard is still there, and walking into a police station with a fountain in the middle is, you know, this remarkable thing. There is still the possibility of putting offices around the perimeter as they once were. I also want to say that looking at the building...I sit on the Kauai Business Council, and every fall, we meet with our Legislators and these wonderful organizations talk about human resources and all kinds of things, and I bring this in and say you know, the County and the State never talk to each other. And this, in the blue, is County owned facilities, the pink is State owned facilities, and then there is a little green for Federal. The County has cherished its historic buildings and went to our former Chair, Jay Furfaro, was... spearheaded the restoration of our County... Historic County Building. The Public Works Department (inaudible) did a fabulous job of the Hart Wood County Annex, which is right across street from the Police Station, and right across the street, it's included. All of this area is a historic district; the Courthouse, the Annex, the County Building, and the County lawn; that's a historic district. So to say that this building across from it is nothing, February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 31 doesn't make any sense at all. And if the State would just talk to the County, which has spent the last ten (10) years trying to develop walkable, livable communities so that... Ms. Higuchi- ayegusa left the meeting at 4:35 p.m. Ms. Griffin: And then DAGS we and cut four (4) trees down on Umi Street, which isn't very walkable when the ... both trees in the Public Health Department... And I might add, the Public Health Department is immediately adjacent to the former Police Station, and the scale of those two (2) buildings and the school, which was designed by Ernest Hara, who is a big name in modern Hawaiian architect. We know John Ham now is still ... his son. And so you've got a scale there, and you've got materials there that are absolutely in keeping with the context of the area, which we talk about in our... in looking at historic preservation. I have an early ... the plot plan, which you all may have shown, and the ... you may have ... I could not read these in color, but these plans on exactly where were the judges' chambers, where were the bathrooms, where... each space, what was being used, and even the windows, from your account, are still original and may not be in very good condition, but are eminently replaceable. So you've got a situation where... and here's a different one. I think you showed this, but again, it's in very bad condition how it was configured. I might add that in the 70's, people would come in and the fountain... and they had marijuana growing there in the 70's. Do any of you all remember this? Because they tried to ... this was from the Kauai Bureau Chief of the Honolulu Advertiser, I found out ... they wanted to let people know what marijuana looked like, so that... (Laughter in background) And they arrested a couple people who tried to steal it, just to let you all know the history of the place. The problem for me, and I have a really big problem, which is you are coming to us with a demolition plan; without consulting at all on the historic nature of the building. I don't think that's right. And I have to say... Mr. Tonaki: The plans are not final. Ms. Griffin: Yeah, well... But you (inaudible) Administrator Furfaro: Excuse me. Mr. Tonaki: Sorry, Administrator Furfaro: She has the floor. Mr. Tonaki: I'm sorry. Administrator Furfaro: You can respond at the appropriate time. Ms. Griffin: You've been to the State Historic Preservation Division first, and I take exception to that as well because we in this Country really prize private property rights, so demolition is February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 32 something that, across the nation, can be delayed but not stopped; except for the State. The State Historic Preservation Division has the right of advice and consent on whether to demolish this building. So before hearing the local boots on the ground, to go to the State and override anything we could say is not right and I take exception to that, and hope that the Commission will agree with me to write that Division and request them to reconsider. This is an important building. It doesn't look like much. You're right because it's been ... you know, demolition by neglect is not an effective treatment for preservation. We call it malign neglect. And the building... they were planting plants here. Guy Rothwell was the architect and engineer. His son, Frank Rothwell, was the engineer in this. And honestly, there is a tremendous opportunity for the State to finally participate with the County on creating a private place. That is the center of the center of the island. Ms. Schneider: Excuse me, Pat, but we've just been told to curtail (inaudible). Ms. Griffin: Thank you. I appreciate that, but I think this is so important and just to dismiss it and provide a plan for creating a parking lot misses the point. So having the center of the County seat with a historic district across the street needs further consideration and the ability to look at how that building can be used effectively by the State. And I'll go further, there was ... the County also did a parking lot survey and study, and they found that at any given time, only 50% of the parking spaces were in use during the day. There is a possibility, and I do have... Ms. Schneider: Excuse me a second, Pat. Do we have a motion to have them come back to us with a revised plan? Or...? Mr. Helder: I actually have two (2) motions. (Laughter in background) I move that we set this aside and have them return after they've had an opportunity to consult with the State; that's the first motion. Ms. Schneider: Do we have a second? Ms. Arinaga: I have a question for them. Should I...7 Ms. Schneider: First... Ms. Griffin: I second. Ms. Arina>?a: Okay, Mr. Helder: Okay, now we can have discussion. Ms. Arinaga: I have a question for them. Is that okay? Mr. Helder: Sure. February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 33 Ms, Arinaga: Okay. So my question would be, were there any considerations to restoring the building before the demolition plans became? I know that building. My husband was a Police Officer in that building for many, many years. But were there any plans? Were there any studies done as to restoring the building? Maintaining the building? Fixing it up? Anything? Mr. Tonaki: Okay, yeah, there was...I recall there was another survey done, I believe, in the 90's on improving the existing structure for the Police Department, and there were recommendations for improvements to the building for the Police Department to remain in the building. I'm not sure if those improvements tools place. Ms. Schneider: So we have a motion and a second to come back to us with further plans. Do we have a vote on that? Ms. Griffin: In the discussion, before you... Administrator Furfaro: Excuse me, Madam Chair, lei me get the procedure correct here, okay? You do have limits on how long someone can hold the floor, okay? You need to manage that appropriately within your judgement. You have a motion on the floor to defer this item or refer this item, but be very careful if you go for deferral until they come back. There is no discussion, okay? So you have a motion on the floor to basically do an invitation with a list of questions for them to come back, that motion was seconded, and she is still allowed to have dialog, okay? Then you can recognize other members of your Commission, okay? So you still have an open question that was posed to the individuals. Ms. Schneider: Okay. Administrator Furfaro: You have the floor, sir. Mr. Tonaki: Oh, okay. As I said, there were recommendations for improvements to the Police Department, to the building, for them to remain there. Honestly, I'm not sure if those improvements took place, were implemented. I'm not... Ms. Arinaga: Thank you. Mr. Tonaki: Yeah. I'm not sure when the Police Department moved out. Mr. Agena: By the way, I wanted to just say one (1) more thing, yeah? It's just that what I was stating earlier is my, again, I gotta stress, it is my personal opinion. It's not...I'm not speaking on behalf of the State as a whole, and that's where I said I have a problem with just tending to speak my mind. I'm not saying that that is necessarily the view of the State that everybody thinks that building is ugly or whatever, yeah? That's not ... I just was giving my personal opinion in my... in just my (inaudible). Maybe that would have been better if I just talk story with you on the side or something like that instead of doing it in this kind of a forum, but it was just my personal opinion. February 25,2016 K14PRC Meeting Minutes Page 34 Mr. Helder: So to address the question that was asked and the response, the response was that in 1990 there might have been a study. So is that ... would I interpret that to be, no, nobody looked at rehabbing this building? Because that's ... 1990 is a long time ago. (Inaudible) Mr. Tonaki: The Department... the building was occupied at that time. Mr. Helder: Right. And her question was, before this was thought about as being demolished, was there any effort given to studying whether this building could be (inaudible)? Or was it just written off? Mr. Tonaki: Well, that would be up to the State. We were just hired to do the demolition plans. Mr. Hull: If I can also interject, I mean, there is a part of the survey that states that renovation of the structure to a point of reuse would probably be more costly than demolition and construction of a new building. I mean, that's stated in the ... just to point out, that's stated in the survey. Ms. Schneider: Is the discussion still on whether to have them come back with more information? Mr. Hull: And I think for the applicant, it might help to clarify when you are saying you'd like to defer the item in order for them to come to readdress or possibly relook at their plans. There's two (2) potential plans out there and I think they are going to need clarification. Are you asking them ... because what they have, essentially, before you folks is this survey which is a mitigation measure of demolition. Now, are you folks asking them to reconsider the demolition? Or to reconsider and amend the survey? So I think that... Mr. Helder: No, I'm asking them to come back after the (inaudible) my second motion which is going to be to appeal to State Historic about this project, both by telephone and by mail, so that they realize that we have a large problem with this project. They would then consult with these people and then perhaps when they return, we would have a different approach that would be brought by the State; that's my goal. As I said, it can only be made in two (2) motions, so the first is to defer so that they can go back and discuss with State, and then the second motion would be to appeal to State through letters and a phone call from the Chairman about our displeasure with (a) the approach and (b) the project without considering rehabilitating the building or adaptive reuse or any of the other remedies that are available for this building. Is that good? Ms. Schneider: Is there any other discussion of this? Administrator Furfaro: Can I just ... I'm only touching base on procedural pieces here. Madam Chair, so your choices are you can direct a series of questions to the Planning Department, have them forward those questions to these gentlemen, and reschedule them to come back, but to just defer it and not have it clear what questions you are asking and so forth, will not, in my observation, (inaudible) a resolution. Ms. Schneider: Alright. Well, do we have a series of questions that we would like them to come back with? February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page35 Mr. Helder: Yeah, I don't know where the series of questions would come in; that s not ... wasn't part of my motion. Maybe Jay would like to make a motion ... that spells out what you are trying to ask; that's not what I'm trying to ask, Jay. Administrator Furfaro: I understand that. Mr. Helder: Okay. Administrator Furfaro: But just (inaudible). Mr. Helder: And it's not what I need to ask, either. I can ask fox it (to be) deferred so that they can consult with State; State would have the questions. Administrator Furfaro: My office guides you on (inaudible). Mr. Helder: Okay, okay. Administrator Furfaro: I was giving the Chair some options. If you leave today and it's not clear what they are coming back for, and that doesn't have to be decided in here, you can just go through the Chair and get questions to the Planning Department. The Planning Department has already noted another part of the report that, maybe, you want more clarification on. I'm only regarding the procedures on suggestions for the Chair. Ms. Schneider: So can we have a mofion that they come back and give us an explanation why they didn't have an adaptive reuse of the building? And what possible adaptive reuse there might be? Mr. Helder: I don't know what to do with my motion at this moment. (Inaudible) Ms. Schneider: Can you repeat it again? Mr. Helder: I did, but it's... (Laughter in background) I don't know what's wrong with it. Mr. Hull: If I may.. . Administrator Furfaro: His motion is active and you have a second. His motion is active. Ms. Schneider: So we can vote on the action. All in favor? Ms. Griffin: Can you repeat the motion, please? One of you. Mr. Helder: I would like us to defer this and request that they return at a future time after they consult with State Historic about this pxoj ect, which would give us time to speak with State Historic about our feelings about this. Aebmary 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 36 Administrator Furfaro: And you already have a second. Ms. Schneider: Second. All in favor of this? (Unanimous voice vote) Motion carries 8:0. Mr. Chaffin Jr.': Discussion? Ms. Schneider: Discussion. Administrator Furfaro: There is no discussion. Mr. Helder: It's been voted on. Okay, now the second motion that I would like to make is that I request the Chair ... I would move that the Chair contact the State Historic about this particular project, both by phone and by a direct letter, not going through the Planning Department necessarily, voicing our concern about this project and the lack of consultation with us before they made a determination, and that our interest in preserving this historic center to Lihu`e be communicated to State Historic because they apparently are not aware of it. Ms. Schneider: That's too bad we didn't speak to them when they were here. Mr. Helder: Yes. Ms. Schneider: Since they were here this morning. (Laughter) Mr. Helder: I don't think it's for those particular guys to do though. Ms. Schneider: Do we have a second? Ms. Griffin: I second it. And I would like to amend that motion to ask that the State Historic Preservation Division specifically ... the language is...reconsider their former letter of acceptance. Mr. Helder: I second. Mr. Hull: Just to clarify, I think... Madam Chairperson, if you choose to write a letter to SHPD on your own on behalf of this group, indeed you can do that. There was a certain point being made that the Planning Department not be involved. If there is going to be County of Kauai letterhead and what not.. . Ms. Schneider: Itshould be County. Mr. Hull: It's going to have to get funneled through the Planning Department. Ms. Schneider: Routed through the County. Yes, I agree. Mr. Helder: I didn't specifically exclude the Planning Department. It could be either; whatever would get the job done. February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 37 Ms. Schneider: I also would appreciate some... Mr. Helder: So we have an amendment and we have a second on the amendment. Ms. Schneider: We need to vote. Mr. Helder: Yes. Ms. Schneider: All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote) Motion carries 8:0. Mr. Helder: Now we have a motion. The motion is to have you communicate directly with State, both by telephone and a letter; that's been seconded. Ms. Schneider: Yes. We have a vote on it, and it's approved. Mr. Helder: We can do that. Ms. Schneider: Yes. Also, we'd like to see you come back with some ideas on adaptive reuse. I mean, is it possible that somebody like Habitat or. .Would take the building over if you don't want to be liable for the building? Mr. Chaffin Jr.: I have a question or a comment, and I think we are getting too legalese in this discussion. I'd just like to say to them ... have them come...study all of our thoughts and come back with a suggestion of what to do; whether there's no way it can be retained or remodeled structurally, so on and so forth, or whether there is a better use for it, or something that after discussion and thinking about it in your group, you can come back with us. Ms. Schneider: Commissioners? Stephen Mx. Long: I don't know if this needs to be a motion, but I do have a specific request from you for clarification and information, and that would be to provide us more detailed information about the fountain. It is not mentioned in your report. That you provide us with an actual study and assessment, not opinion, as to the economic viability of adaptive reuse, specifically with respect to your statement that, for the same cost or less, the property owner can construct a new building with higher efficiency and designed for its intended use, which I don't believe is an accurate statement, so a survey, an actual assessment, as to the physical condition of the building, would be appropriate, I believe. Mr. Helder: Stephen, can I interrupt you for a moment? It's probably... Mr. Long: No. I don't want to be interrupted right now. Thank you. Also, with regards to your comments about ADA adaptability, I would request that you have accurate, clear photographs that the Commission can look at when you talk about certain items, and that you are clear on what ADA adaptability requirements would need to be done and why this building does not comply at this time. February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 38 Mr. Helder: I would request that you make those comments to State Historic. These guys are here about a demolition permit. State Historic is the one that should address all of those issues about adaptive reuse and all the lack of documentation and all of those things because they are the ones that have signed off on this and they are the ones that we are requesting to withdraw their agreement by pointing out the lack of things. So if you would detail those to Anne so that she could make that part of her request of State, that would be perfect. It's very good. Mr. Long: Thank you for your clarification. Ms. Schneider: Thank you. Mr. Helder: Yeah. Now we need a vote on it. Administrator Furfaro: Just procedurally, again, that...you did not have a second on what the gentlemen was asking to, and you need to get the second, and then amend it to reference. Mr. Helder: No, we have a second. Ms. Schneider: We have a second. Administrator Furfaro: I'm sorry. Mr. Helder: Yeah, we are in the discussion part of it. Administrator Furfaro: Good, okay. Ms. Arinaga: Yeah, it was discussion. Administrator Furfaro: That's fine. It's a little late back here, and then that motion is amended as such. Good. Got it. Ms. Schneider: Can we have a vote? All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote) Motion carries 8:0. Anything else? Do we need a hand count? No, we're good. So I hope you'll come back to us with... Mr. Tonaki: Thank you, Commissioners. Ms. Arinaga: Thank you. Thank you. COMMISSION EDUCATION (None) Ms. Schneider: Commission Education. We have none. February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 39 DATE AND AGENDA TOPICS (March 24, Zulu) Ms. Schneider: The next meeting will be March 24, 2016. We're adjourned. Administrator Furfaro: Oh, I have an announcement (inaudible). Ms. Schneider: One (1) announcement? Administrator Furfaro: One (1) announcement. It's appropriate for me to share with you that on March V. next Tuesday, we have our training session that's dealing exactly with some key points from the County Attorney dealing with issues that really consistently come up and you should be briefed on. We are very fortunate to have Nick Courson, the Deputy County Attorney, making that presentation. Tomorrow is the deadline to sign up. And please, I want to make sure you recognize... Mr. Chaffin Jr.: When is the date again? Ms. Schneider: March 1st Administrator Furfaro: Tuesday, March 1st. We have a session with... And also, Chair, I just want to say, my comments were directed at making sure that the procedure according was followed and that the vote was recorded as the will of the body. Ms. Schneider. Thank you. Administrator Furfaro: I was not trying to do anything more than pointing out those rules. Mr. Helder left the meeting at 4:58 p.m. Ms. Schneider: No, I appreciate all your help. Mr. Chaffin Jr.: What was the time? Administrator Furfaro: March 1st. 9:30. Ms. Schneider: I adjourn the meeting. ADJOURNMENT The meeting was adjourned at 4:58 p.m. February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 40 Respectfully Submitted, Darcie Agaran Commission Support Clerk Date: