HomeMy WebLinkAboutKHPRC022516MINUTESKAUA`I COUNTY HISTORIC PRESERVATION REVIEW COMMISSION
Ldru`e Civic Center, Mo`ikeha Building, Meeting Room 2A/2B
MINUTES
A regular
meeting
of the
Kauai
County Historic Preservation Commission (KHPRC) was held on
February
25, 2016
in the
Lihu`e
Civic Center, Mo`ikeha Building, Meeting Room 2A/213.
The following Commissioners were present: Chairperson Anne Schneider, Pat Griffin, David
Helder, Althea Arinaga, Charlotte Hoomanawanui, Deatri Nakea, Stephen Long, and Larry
Chaffin Jr.
The following Commissioner was absent: Victoria Wickman.
The following staff members were present: Planning Department — Kaaina Hull (entered at 3:10
p.m.), Shanlee Jimenez, Myles Hironaka; Deputy County Attorney Jodi Higuchi-Sayegusa (left at
4:35 p.m); Office of Boards and Commissions — Administrator Jay Furfaro, Commission Support
Clerk Darcie Agaran,
CALL TO ORDER
The meeting was called to order at 3:00 p.m.
Ms. Higuchi-Sayegusa: Maybe roll call first.
Ms. Schneider: Roll call, first?
Deputy County Attorney Jodi Higuchi-Sa�gusa: Yes. Sorry.
Ms. Schneider: What do I do?
Ms. Higuchi-Sayegusa: Just, I guess, go around the room and make sure we are all here.
Ms. Schneider: We're all here.
Ms. Higuchi-Sayegusa: Quorum,
Ms. Schneider: Quorum? Yes, we have a quorum.
Ms. Higuchi-Savegusa: Okay, that's fine.
SELECTION OF 2016 VICE CHAIRPERSON
Ms. Schneider: Selection of the 2016 Vice Chairperson. We had a nomination.
February 25, 2016 KFIPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 2
Ms. Arinaga: Aloha. I would like to withdraw my name from the nomination, please.
Ms. Schneider: Do we have any nominations for Vice Chair?
Mr. Heldex: I would Iike to nominate Stephen Long.
Mr. Long: I would like to decline and I would like to nominate Victoria Wichman in absentia.
(Laughter in background)
Mr. Helder: That's good.
Ms. Griffin: I second it. (Laughter in background)
Ms. Schneider: All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote) Motion carries 8:0. Victoria is Vice Chair.
(Laughter in background)
APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA
Ms.
Schneider:
Approval of the Agenda.
I'd like
to move the discussion on the CLG first, if there
are
no objections, as we have the people
from the
State here.
Administrator Furfaro: Madam Chair?
Ms. Schneider: Yes.
Administrator Furfaro: We have a swearing in to do first, and we also have some documents to be
signed by (inaudible).
Ms. Schneider: Okay.
Council Administrative Assistant Eddie Topenio gave the Oath of Office to reappointed
Commission Member Larry Chaffin Jr.
Ms. Schneider: Can we now hear from the State?
Unidentified Speaker: Police Station?
Ms. Schneider: Oh no, no, the State. Cl
Re: Discussion on the status of the Certified Local Government.
February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 3
Ms. Higuchi-Savegusa: So we're on H.2.2
Ms, Schneider: Yes,
Kai wi Nui Yoon: Good afternoon, Madam Chair. Thank you, Commission, for moving the State
Historic Preservation Division up on the agenda. My name is Kaiwi. I'm from the State Historic
Preservation Division.
Anna Broverman: I'm Anna Bxoverman. I'm an Architectural Historian with the State Historic
Preservation Division.
Mr. Nui Yoon: Madam Chair, the only reason here is to report on our efforts and progress with
the Statewide Architectural Survey of Hawaii; happily known as the ... or also known as the
SASH. As you know, Madam Chair, we ... S14PD has started ... let me back up. Act 89 was an
appropriation from the Legislature to fund $100,000 in this fiscal year next towards doing
statewide surveys of residential districts. We are now in the process of actually doing the RLS
level field research and data collection, and we did start in Kauai. I'll let Anna tell you how that
experience was, but before that, I just want to let you know, Madam Chair, that we did meet with
Kauai Representatives, as well as your Mayor, to inform ... as well as your Planning Department,
to inform them of our progress. All being very supportive, and as I'm hearing it, Madam Chair,
that the team did an excellent job, and I think we're really excited about, you know, about our
progress.
The second part of this, Madam Chair, is the context studies. We just sent up our solicitations for
architectural firms to help us do those studies. So just as a reminder, there is the data collection
component, as well as the context studies, where we plan to, you know, include oral histories of
these areas to make them more relevant to Kauai community. We just met with your Planning
Department and perhaps there is some room in the statewide plan ... not statewide plan... What's
it called?
Ms. Broverman: The County Plan.
Mr. Nui Yoon: County Master Plan. That maybe some of that data can be useful toward informing
that plan. If there are no questions for me, Madam Chair, I'll turn it over to Anna.
Ms. Schneider: Are there any questions from the Commission? Larry.
Mr. Chaffin: I have a question concerning your title referring to architectural. In my opinion, and
I believe it's the State requirement that if you use that term, "architect", "architectural", anything
referring to that means that you are a licensed architect in good standing.
Mr. Nui Yoon: Madam Chair, I would ask if this would be put out of order at this time, as this is
not the agenda on the matter, but if you'd like, I can address this question.
February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 4
Okay. So Madam Chair, the State requirement... the actual State requirement is that the
Architecture Branch Chief, to qualify for Secretary of Interior Standards, just has to have a degree
in architecture with the relevant experience. It does not state that the Architecture Branch Chief
needs to be a practicing, licensed architect in good standing, and in fact, this title has been in
place ... I want to say for the past twenty (20) years, Madam Chair. If there is any, you know, issue
with that, then that would have to be taken up with the Chair of the Department of Land and Natural
Resources. But as far as I'm concerned, Madam Chair, my title is not, you know, important in the
way in the matter in which it was presented. It's just to inform people that there are three (3)
branches within the State Historic Preservation Division; one (1) being Architecture, one (1) being
Archaeology, and the third being History and Culture. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Ms. Schneider: Thank you. Any other questions? Stephen.
Mr. Long: Yeah, I have a follow-up question. I just wanted to confirm that in the past we've
discussed that the historical neighborhood districts would be done in two (2) phases. The first
phase we recommended four (4) or five (5) neighborhoods to take a look at, and I'm just hoping
that we'll have a chance next year, next round, to follow up with the other four (4) or five (5).
Mr. Nui Yoon: Madam Chair, absolutely. And you know, it was this Commission that helped
inform us for the first round of committees [sic], and we thank this Commission because it was
great advice. Going forward for the next fiscal year, we'll come back to this Commission and ask
for the next (inaudible).
Mr. Long: Thank you for being here, and thank you for being so clear and following up on our
discussions in the past.
Mr. Nui Yoon: Thank you.
Mr. Long: Thank you.
Ms. Broverman: So Madam Chair, I wanted to give a brief overview of how our surveys went last
week. We started in Hanapepe on Tuesday, and then we surveyed Hanalei on Wednesday, and
then Lihu`e Town Tracks and Kapa`a on Thursday. We, in Hanapepe, focused on the Hanapepe
commercial town area with the residents that are in that circle on the bend of the river as well. We
also surveyed the Hanapepe Swinging Bridge. From there, in Hanalei, we did all of Weke Road
and we ran out of time during that survey, but we are planning to come back next month to finish
that up. And then for Kapa`a, we went to the old Pineapple Cannery Plantation Manager's housing,
and then we did all of Lihu`e Town Tracks, and actually some neighborhoods even farther east of
that area because we had extra time.
But whenever we were out in the field, we had a lot of people come up to us and ask us what we
were doing. They axe very interested, but we had all positive feedback. Once we told them that
we were looking at the architectural character of places in the histories and we weren't the tow
people, it was ... we were very well received. I just wanted to say it was a really great kickoff to
February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 5
our surveys, and we appreciate all the help you guys did in pointing out the neighborhoods to
survey. We had a really fantastic time.
Ms. Schneider: And the CLG funds for 2015, have they all been spent already?
Ms. Broverman: No. There are some available still. We were trying to create projects for context
studies; for each CLG to create a context study for that grant cycle. We are still discussing with
the National Parks Service if we can help the County with matching funds with some of our State
funds. So once we clear that information up, we will let you guys know so that we can move
forward on that, Madam Chair,
Ms. Schneider: And there was discussion whether some of those funds could be used for a Historic
Planner. Did you ever clarify whether that was a possibility?
Ms. Broverman: National Parks Service still hasn't gotten back to me on that one, but we are
setting up a call with them soon, hopefully next week, so I'll make sure to ask that question
whenever I talk to them.
Ms. Schneider: Do you know how much funds are left in the 2015 budget?
Ms. Broverman: It's approximately ... about $50,000,
Ms. Schneider: And that's for all four (4) counties?
Ms. Broverman: Yes, for all four (4)... or three (3) counties. Yes, but just a reminder, too, the
2015 fiscal year for the Federal cycle is closing and the 2015 grant will end in September of this
year, but the 2016 grant cycle has just started, so try to think of some great projects that you guys
can put forward.
Deputy Planning Director Kaaina Hull entered the meeting at 3:10 p.m.
Ms. Broverman: The sooner the better so that we don't get stuck in a crunch this time next year
with the 2016 funds.
Ms. Schneider: Thank you.
Ms. Arinaga: I have a question for you. Can you refresh my mind and tell me where the Plantation
Manager's Home is in Kapa`a?
Ms. Broverman: Sure. It is right next to Waipouli Beach Park. And also, which steam or river is
right next to it? Pat, do you recall?
Ms. Griffin: It's the Baby Beach section, I believe.
Ms. Arinaga: Okay.
February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 6
Ms, Griffin: Makai of the (inaudible).
Ms. Arinaga: Right, okay. I know where the Baby Beach is. So in reference to the beach, where
is the home?
Ms. Broverman: They are right on the beach. It's in between Kuhio Highway and the ocean.
Ms. Griffin: May I?
Ms. Schneider: Go ahead, Pat
Ms. Griffin: It's not one Manager's home. It was the general...the houses that, essentially,
management lived in.
Ms. Arinaga: Okay, I was just going by her information when you said it was the Manager's home,
so I just wanted to check. Thank you.
Mr. Nui Yoon: Madam Chair, now that you did bring up fiscal year funding or funding in general,
what we are trying to do is be proactive about the County funding mechanisms, so we met with
Maui County's Mayor and Finance Director, and actually learned that the Mayor has discretionary
funds that he could match the CLG funds with. It's not the same here in Kauai, but what I'm
saying, Madam Chair, is that going forward, we are going to try and figure out, you know, at the
County level, what needs to happen so that the projects that you guys are recommending can be
funded in a manner and efficient timeframe so we can get these projects done.
Ms.
Schneider:
Yes, thank
you. Any other questions? Anymore discussion? Thank you
Mr.
Nui Yoon:
Thank you,
Madam Chair,
Ms. Arinaga: Thank you.
Ms. Higuchi-Savegusa: I notice we didn't call for public testimony for this (inaudible).
Ms. Schneider: Is there anyone from the public that would like to come up and speak? Nancy?
Nancy McMahon: I am Nancy McMahon and I'm here really with the Parks and Recreation, and
that was... I came up here because you folks, and I think I've talked to Kaaina, what you would
like to do because you wanted to nominate things to the register that were part of Parks and
Recreation's facilities that they owned, and so I probably need to know kind of where we need to
go with that; that would maybe be a project that we could put for funding in. We were also talking
about a curation facility and trying to get some of the County archaeological collections that are
with the private firms back to the County of Kauai, and at least provide a facility where future
research could be done there, and looking for some kind of building space within that part of that
process. I don't know if they were able to talk to and verify whether... usually CLG doesn't pay
for hard funds, that I recall, but things may have changed since I've been at SHPD, or was at
February 25, 2016 KI-IPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 7
SHPD. But they could pay for guidelines and rules, and then we could also pay for professional
services to help get those nominations on board. I have talked to Don Hibbard about doing a few
of them because I've work with him on another project that we just finished up.
Ms. Schneider: And he's no longer with the State?
Ms, McMahon: He's not. He's on his own, so that's correct.
Mr. Hull: Yeah, so just to give some background, at the last meeting, there were discussions of
the Department coming back with, say, recommendations for applications for CLG funds in the
2015 and 2016 years. The 2015 year, because the timeline is such a crunch, the Department
has... outside of those educational types of things, because there is such a tight timeline, we're very
cautious about going after those monies. I think if Kaiwi guys come back with the other stuff that
he was talking about with the Federal folks. But the 2016, three (3) potential projects the
Department was looking at and talking with Nancy and other individuals is that the first... The
first two (2) are actually looking at possibly applying for CLG funds for consultation purposes for
nomination to the register. The two (2) structures that we would be looking at would be, one (1),
a County facility, which is the War Memorial Convention Hall, and seeing if CLG funds could be
utilized for, essentially, the hiring of a consultant to go through the nomination process for the War
Memorial Hall. The other property is a private residence in Hanalei; commonly referred to as the
Sloggett House. The landowner has expressed interest and a desire to have their property put on
the register, so that's another potential project. And then the third one, which Nancy alluded to, is
the need for Kauai to have a repository or curation facility for those archaeological finds that are,
essentially, unearthed, say, during the construction of a road or highway. Those generally
get...correct me if I'm wrong, Nancy, but those, .because there is no facility here, it has to be
shipped over to Oahu, and to have that in place here and looking at a potential site for that. So
those are three (3) kind of loose recommendations that the Department wanted to kind of bounce
of you folks loosely here to see if there is an interest, and then we can go into further research, as
far as actually getting up a potential draft application form or a presentation for each of those three
(3). If there's any objections to any of those three (3), then we can just say okay, we are not going
to move on. The one that is, of course, I think, somewhat... some may be leery of is going after
CLG funds for a consultant for a private residence. Myles and I, and other staff members had
discussions; is that appropriate to go after public monies to help a private residence get on the list
when, in fact, they already have an interest? And so that's for you folks to discuss. Ultimately,
we kind of looked at it as, until we have the problem of private property and applicants climbing
over each other to get access to CLG funds for a nomination to the register, until that problem
happens, we may want to try to help these guys out as much as we possibly can because we realize
it's been over a decade since Kauai has put anything on the register.
Ms. Schneider: But the War Memorial is certainly eligible.
Ms. McMahon: Right.
Mr. Helder: Nancy, is this, possibly, anything that can interface with what Pila Kikuchi was trying
to do?
February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
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Ms. McMahon: Well, here's my history on the curation facility repositories that we're talking
about. It started, actually, when I was at SHPD as the Kauai Archaeologist here and Ross Cordy
was my boss. He actually approached the State Legislation to look at ... and this is when we were
fairly well off, the economy was good... and we were kind of looking at purchasing properties, too,
and so they had given me a list of things to look at. And so he went there to approach that they
fund monies for all the counties to get facilities for them because what was happening is,
technically and legally, the artifacts, the scientific material that was collected still belongs to the
landowner, but most landowners don't know what to do with it. It's not something that ... Lenny,
actually, (inaudible) asked me if we could give it back to cultural descendants, but that would
be ... I wouldn't want the County to get into the mess of trying to figure out who is the right cultural
descendant to give that to. It's really scientific material to be used so we don't have to continue
to do excavation or disturb things, but we might find other things that might lead to research or
new scientific methods have come up to date things or do analysis to different things. That's sort
of where it started. Pila, then, was going to try to do something... and he still has his collection. I
believe it's still up there. It never went any further than the thought. They had changed from the
Chancellor, then, at the University to different heads now, and I had kind of talked to them a few
times when I was flying back and forth, and running SHPD, about trying to push that again. And
what's happened here now, most people still think of me as an archaeologist, and most
people ... and some of the firms now, have come to me and said here, here's what we collected
from the Pono Kai wall, and I see a box coming at me, and I'm like... So I will now be ... and I
don't want that because there are rules of how you have to accept those things, and that would be
some of the guidelines that I'd want to be developed. We don't ... you know, it's really they have
field notes and photographic records, and all that has to come organized so it's in a certain manner
to you; not just hodgepodge. And I'm not sticking it in my corner at my office because it'll... once
it starts, it'll never stop, and I won't be the... and that's not ... what I don't want. So that was why
I thought like, well maybe we better do this the right way and set this up. And then when we were
in the... at SHPD when we were, sort of, in the red category with the Parks Service, I actually was
tasked with bringing this up again and coming up with guidelines for the curation facility. SHA,
the Study for Hawaiian Archaeology, actually has developed some. I took from three (3) other
states and kind of have a draft. I still have my files on that, so I kind of have an idea and that was
sort of the idea, and I kind of wanted to partner with the Historical Society because I don't think
we have the money for a position either, but what I ... but Helen Wong that works there, worked
for a firm for years and she's also a Librarian and she's an Archivist. She's actually a Certified
Archivist, so she actually knows those guidelines better than I do and I would partner with them,
as a partnering facility to ... and then so you still kind of ... CLG...it's a State, County, and a
nonprofit entity trying to partner to kind of resolve this issue. And it isn't just Hawai`i's problem,
it's actually kind of a nationwide problem about curation facilities.
Mr. Helder: Is KCC interested at all?
Ms. McMahon: I never got ... I think what... Pila wanted to build a whole new building for it, and
I think they didn't have the funds. I don't...I somewhat know where some of his collection went.
I don't even think they all know where it's at. It never got them to move beyond that, you know.
Yeah. It's worth approaching them again.
February 25, 2016 K11PRC Meeting Minutes
Page 9
Mr. Helder: Yeah, it sounds like it. Good luck with that.
S. Schneider: Thank you, Nancy
Ms, McMahon: The other... just another tidbit that on said in talking to him, and Anne may
know more about this, but Don did a bunch of brochures before, too, in looking at helping ... I think
brochures on either the nomination process or historic homes. He mentioned that to me as another
thing that could be tailored to Kauai again, and publishing some of those again, too.
Ms. Schneider: Thank you. Any questions?
Mr. Chaffin Jr.: I have a question. It involves...do the owners of these properties realize once
they are on the register that they have very strict requirements that they can't remodel, they can't
resell, they can't do this, that, and the other thing? Am I correct in thinking that?
Ms. Schneider: No.
Ms. McMahon: No. (Laughter in background) But it wasn't really my question to answer. No,
they don't ... I mean, it's really a status thing. There is a tax benefit to them on the State Register
for the County, but...
Mr. Hull: Yeah, and at the end of the day, these properties that go on the list can be resold. They
function just as private properties. It's just a type of overlay, essentially, on the structure or site.
And it depends on the manner in which the nomination was made as to what those restrictions are.
I mean, if the nomination highlights a particular staircase or banister in the structure, then yeah, to
take that away or remove it, there will be some... it won't be as easily as ... but if, you know, if the
structure is nominated in a manner in which the focus is primarily on the exterior, then interior
renovations, generally, are fine. And I know Kaiwi guys can speak to a much more detailed level
as far as the restrictions and prohibitions, as well as the allowances that sites on the register can
do.
Mr. Chaffin Jr.: Thank you
Mr. Helder: They can also remove it from the register, and they can demolish the building. Those
are two (2) things that they can do.
Ms. McMahon: And it doesn't open it ... they don't have to show it to the public either. It's not
something that ... it's still aprivate residence.
Ms. Griffin: Madam Chair, I have a question, again, about the funds, but it's not directed to
Nancy's presentation, and that is going back to the 2015 funds. One of the things that we tallied
about, and I don't know how long it takes to put together an application or some kind of request,
but we have talked periodically about the need, the continuing need, for training. For what is our
responsibility on this Commission, what are the rules and standards that we function with. We
have several new members and I'm hoping that it wouldn't take ... it wouldn't be a burden on the
February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 10
Planning Department Staff to put together a proposal, and it wouldn't be an overwhelming
difficulty to plan having someone come. I think I mentioned a month or two ago that several of
us went to Kona, two (2) Decembers ago, with the NAAPC, National Alliance ... NAPC, of
Preservation Commissions, and one (1) of our trainers was Jack Williams, who, when David
Helder and I first sat on this Commission in 2001, came to Kauai and gave us really fabulous
training. So I would recommend that if there is any way for us to bring somebody here, have the
Commission dedicated to clearing their calendar for that training day. It would benefit all of us,
so that's one (1) thing in the next year's fund, too, but if these funds are getting unused, that seems
like a natural...
I also want to speak to the very important task that we are tasked with by ordinance in establishing
our Commission, and that is the encouragement in putting things on the State and National
Register. I believe that there are numerous County -owned structures, State-owned too for that
matter that are just waiting to be honored in this way. There are many pavilions in our parks that
are over fifty (50) years old and were built at a time when we were really celebrating Statehood or
earlier. There are historic bridges that people have been coming to us for some years now for
assistance in doing that. And I fear ... because so much of our law and standards in, not just this
Commission, but in our governmental processes that are built on precedent, I fear using that public
money to... for the development of a private nomination because so many people who have done
it... I was recently appointed to the Kauai Historic Places Review Board, and you know, there
were (inaudible) and properties that are private properties that people have hired private
contractors like Don Hibbard to create the nomination. And I just feel like there may be some
unintended consequences that will live long beyond when I have retired from this Commission.
So I believe that it's a legitimate use for us to look at funds for placing structures on the register
and I think that looking at what's available in the County, and potentially the State, is our best
route to go because they are just waiting for us to recognize them. Thank you.
Mr. Helder: One (1) other point. I'm real familiar with this building and the renovation that's
been done in the last decade, and this has been altered quite a bit. I don't know that this
would ... under what I know it takes to qualify for the National Register, the alterations of this have
been substantial enough that I don't think it would qualify, frankly, to the ... that's from seeing it
all these years, so this is an interesting question.
Mr. Hull: Yeah, and I think to the point, I mean, it's a good discussion point because we always
go back to resources and we do have that line item in this year's budget to hopefully get a Historic
Planner. And I wish I could say that, you know, we have a Planner in-house that I could designate
this and be working on nominations. Quite frankly, we don't ... I can't ... we just don't have the
resources, so it's kind of saying... and I wish we did have a Planner that would be able to say, I'll
be doing public facilities, as well as availing his service to the private sector to say I will be walking
these nominations through because I think we have seen people knocking on our door saying I
want to nominate something, and somehow, somewhere, someway, it falls by the wayside. So
that's saying if we had the Planner that could say I'll lend the services and I'll walk this particular
property or this structure through the nomination process because it is the task of the Department
and this Commission to bring nominations for the list. That's essentially why I was putting it out
there is, I wish my Department could provide that service, we just don't have the staffing and the
February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 11
resources, and to say maybe the monies are available... And I actually meant to talk with Kaiwi
and Anna folks. We actually had a conference call scheduled two (2) weeks ago specifically on
this issue and the expenditure of CLG funds. I ended up missing the conference call, and then
Anna folks were doing the survey, so we've been missing each other on having this specific
discussion. I don't know if they want to comment further on...
Mr. Nui Yoon: He missed the call. (Laughter in background) (Inaudible)
Mr. Helder: Now, I understand, as I recall, it's been some years now, but the Park Department at
the Federal level will provide assistance; getting stuff through the nomination process. Isn't that
what you remember? If you put something through and it's got problems, they will assign
somebody to help pull that through. They really gave us a long training on what the processes
were that they did that. What I don't know about is at the State level, whether they have somebody
now that can help walk these things through. I don't think at the County level there's really an
issue, but it's at the State and the Federal level that would be more the case. Is that...?
Mr. Nui Yoon: Madam Chair, if you can just restate what exactly you want SHPD to respond to.
There were a bunch of... So is it State Register or National Register that you want?
Mr. Helder: What we are discussing here is using funds, CLG funds, at the County level to aid in
putting something on the register; whether it be private or whether it be public. My understanding
was, in our training, that at the Federal level, if something is going to be applied to the National
Historic Register, when the application is made and if it's flawed or if it needs more work, they
will supply somebody that will aid in correcting those errors so that it will get through at the
Federal level. Usually prior to applying at the Federal level, it goes on State Historic. I don't
know now what the situation is at State Historic; whether they are supplying somebody to aid in
applications to the State Register or not. Can you address that?
Ms. Broverman: Sure. So how the process would work is that a ... anybody can write the
nomination and nominate it. And whenever the nomination is complete in their minds, they'll
submit it to our office, and at that time, one (1) of our staff members, say myself or Lexi or another
one of us, would review that nomination to make sure that its complete and it fits the standards
that are outlined in our administrative rules, and then we also look at the National Register
guidelines. Once we do that, we'll say if we think that it's complete or not. Or else, we can give
recommendations as to what information you should add or not add.
Mr. Helder: Okay.
Ms. Broverman: We won't actually add that information for you.
Mr. Helder: Right. But you will guide somebody through.
Ms. Broverman: Yes,
Mr. Helder: That's the question that I'm asking is that...
February 25, 2016 KFIPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 12
Ms. Broverman: We will guide through, but we just won't provide the information.
Mr. Helder: Yes, right, okay.
Ms. Schneider: Is that clarified?
Mr. Helder: Yes. Okay, thanks.
Ms. Broverman: You're welcome.
Mr. Nui Yoon: Oh, and Madam Chair, I just wanted to follow up on Nancy's previous comments
about the archaeological repository. Currently, Madam Chair, there is a House Bill 2602, and it's
a historic preservation bill that SHPD is monitoring at the moment, which appropriates funds for
DLNR to study the size and storage (of) archaeological collections. It was just referred to Water
and Land and Finance as of February 1st, 2016.
Ms. Schneider: So it's in the process?
Mr. Nui Yoon: Yes, Madam Chair.
Mr. Helder: Which...where is that?
Mr. Nui Yoon: HB2602. House Bi112602.
Mr. Helder: Oh, okay. But where is the building located that you axe referring to? Is it on this
island?
Mx. Nui Yoon: Madam Chair, this is just an appropriation bill that appropriates funds for DLNR
to study what the size and requirements would be for a repository for archaeological...
Mr. Helder: Oh, okay.
Ms. Schneider: Thank you.
Mr. Nui Yoon: Thank you, Madam Chair.
Ms. Schneider: You'll let us know how the bill progresses?
Mr. Nui Yoon: Will do, Madam Chair.
Ms. Schneider: Thank you guys.
Mr. Hull:
Could I ask
a question?
Have you folks
received applications for CLG funds for,
essentially,
consultation
purposes for
nomination? Or
is that kind of rare?
February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 13
Ms. Broverman: Since I've been reviewing applications, I haven't received one. But on Hawaii
Island for 2016, their CLG is looking at getting funds to help them nominate an archaeological
site. So they went to get the information for an AIS, which will provide the context and history of
the site. I think it's something that the KHPRC should look into because it is something that
doesn't happen very frequently, but it should happen a lot. And especially if you haven't had a
property nominated...
Mr. Hull: Over a decade, yeah.
Ms. Broverman: Yeah, for over a decade.
Mr. Hull: No, and that's why, and because just knowing the way the government processes and
the way the Planning Department works with permits all the time, we do guide applicants through
the process, and when it is a pro se situation, a lot of times it can take a lot longer because they are
not as familiar. Sometimes they will just fall by the wayside because of their frustration with
various requirements and rules and regulations. The Department can guide them, but it cannot
draft their applications insofar as SHPD can guide them, but it cannot draft the application
nomination forms so that it meets the standards.
Mr. Nui Yoon: Also, Madam Chair, as a matter of clarity, the State nominations, once they go
through their process with SHPD, are then nominated at the State Historic Places Review Board.
At which point, that board may make a determination whether to place it on the State and
recommend to the National Register. For National Register, currently, the Deputy SHPO, which
is Alan Downer, the Administrator, will then route that nomination to the keeper for consideration.
Ms. Schneider. Thank you.
Mr. Nui Yoon: Thank you, Madam Chair.
Ms. Arinaga: I have a question.
Mr. Long: I have a question.
Ms. Schneider: Go ahead, Stephen.
Mr. Long: Sorry, thank you. What's the specific date deadline for applying for the 2015 $50,000
CLG monies? And have you received any application requests?
Ms. Broverman: So last year, I created a timeline for people to apply for projects, and I don't
recall off the top of my head what it was, but the deadline passed and we didn't receive anything.
So at that point, we decided to just come to you guys and look at what the projects.., or what
projects you are interested in ... say education, context studies, that type of thing ... and we would
direct the projects to you guys. For 2016, the deadline that I created was mid -January, and again,
I didn't receive any applications. So...
February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 14
Mr. Long: You did?
Ms. Broverman: I did not...from any of the CLGs.
Mr, Long: I think it's important to be sensitive to the Planning Department Staff and give them
ample time to prepare acceptable applications, so I would support Pat's thoughts that if can, and
timelines tight for specific project applications, that those funds be allocated to education.
Mr. Helder: Yeah, I agree.
Ms. Broverman: Okay.
Mr. Helder: I think all of us (inaudible).
Ms. Schneider: Yeah, thank you
Ms. Griffin: Madam Chair. So what would that take for our over -worked Kauai Department of
Planning Staff to get something to you? (Laughter in background)
Ms. Broverman: The project proposals are these applications that are about three (3) pages long
and it just states who the project applicant is, why you need that project, or how you are going to
use the funds; basically a budget. So they just fill out that application, and then send it to us. I
think where a lot of the time comes in is that you guys only meet once a month and so creating
projects and deciding on what to do once a month is difficult. So maybe...
Mr. Hull: For the three (3) that we were just discussing for the 2016 funds, ultimately, we wanted
to get your feedback and then given this feedback, we were going to come back... essentially, we
could come back with three (3) applications for your review and action on the next meeting. For
the 2015 funds, yeah, I mean, we could fill out the forms, but it's probably past, right?
Ms. Broverman: For 2015, because the project schedule is so tight, we can help you fill out the
forms.
Mr. Nui Yoon: So Madam Chair, again, as a point of clarity, 2015...the deadline has lapsed. So
I only say that cautiously because your recommendation then goes to your County Councii for
approval for the matching funds, then we have to route it to National Parks Service for their review,
so that takes time and that's why Anna puts a deadline of, on or around, January to get it done.
But like I said in my opening comments, Madam Chair, we are trying to ... I'm trying to identify
how to shorten and curtail some of those processes so that we can get the funding on a much more
efficient... in efficient time.
Ms. Schneider: Thank you.
APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA (Continued)
February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 15
Ms. Schneider: So we are going to go back to Approval of the Agenda and Approval of the 2016
Meeting Minutes.
Approval of the Agenda. Discussion?
Mr. Helder: No.
Ms. Schneider: No? Make a motion.
Ms. Griffin: I move that we approve the agenda.
Ms. Arinava: I second.
Ms. Schneider: Thank you. Approval of the January 7ti'... Approval of the agenda. Can we have
a vote everybody? (Unanimous voice vote) Motion carries 8:0.
APPROVAL OF THE JANUARY'7, 2016 MEETING MINUTES
Ms. Schneider: Approval of the January 7, 2016 Meeting Minutes. Do I have a motion?
Mr. Helder: So moved.
Mr. Chaffm Jr.: Second.
Ms. Schneider: Discussion? Everybody in favor? (Unanimous voice vote) Motion carries 8:0.
ANNOUNCEMENTS AND GENERAL BUSINESS MATTERS
Ms. Schneider: Announcements and General Business Matters.
COMMUNICATIONS
Ms. Schneider: Do we have any communications? Or Pat, do you want to speak about the...?
ANNOUNCEMENTS AND GENERAL BUSINESS MATTERS (Continued)
Ms. Griffin: Well, Madam Chair, L..on the General Business Matters, our business of the
KHPRC, were we going to clarify a little bit further about use of our applications for funding for
next year? As Anna said, we only meet once a month.
Ms. Schneider: We would ... how would you like...
February 25, 2016I ITPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 16
Mr. Helder: I'd like to comment on this, I really would, because when everybody is describing all
of this shortened time and how it becomes impossible and the deadlines past, and we brought up,
I think seven (7) months ago, the need for an educational component and that we would like to see
some of the CLG funds go toward that. And if we can't... it's very frustrating if we are relying on
the Planning Department to bring that forward because we do meet once a month and they don't
bring it forward to the point where the deadlines are past, then it's ... are we ever going to get a
component? When do we have to ask? Two (2) years in advance? I don't know. I think what Pat
was saying was really important that any funds that are not expended and prior to a deadline should
be assigned to an educational component.
Ms. Schneider: I agree.
Mr. Helder: Automatically. So that we don't just have funds that are available to us pass, and
that's what it looks like has done now. I don't know whether we need to put an action in place
saying we write the application and give it to the Planning Commission [sic] to submit, or we
request directly from the State that we are able to submit what we need because this is ... this isn't
functional.
Ms. Schneider: Kaaina, do you have any...?
Mr. Hull: Yeah, I mean, there is nothing that precludes this body from drafting it up and submitting
it and taking action on it. If you are directing the Planning Department to specifically draft it up,
we can do that. At this point, there was interest expressed in an educational component, and like
I said, we had planned to have a conference call with SHPD two (2) weeks ago. I apologize. I
was sick that day. I did try to reach out to them, but they were busy on their surveys over here and
throughout the rest of the State. If you are asking us to specifically come up with an educational
plan for the next meeting, we can do that.
Mr. Helder: I'm thinking I would like something different. I move that we make an educational
committee; that we have three (3) members of this board sit on an educational committee and
decide what would be possible to bring it before this committee and have the committee say ... or
have the Commission say yes or no, I want you to draft something, and then go ahead and draft it,
and submit it so that we are within our own goals relative to this, and we don't have to wait for
somebody to interpret an interest into an action.
Ms. Schneider: Sounds like a plan.
Mr. Helder: Okay. So I move that we make an educational committee.
Ms. Higlrchi-Savegusa: So you folks are ... just to clarify, you want to ... you are establishing like
a...
Ms. Schneider: PIG.
Ms. Higuchi-Savegusa: Permitted Interaction Group committee.
February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 17
Mr. Helder: Yes, that's right.
Ms. Higuchi-Sayegusa: Okay. One second.
Ms. Arinaga: So my own question would be, are we allowed to submit a plan? Or do we have to
go through Planning?
Mr. Helder: He just said we could.
Ms. Arinaga: For the funding. We can, right? That's what I want to clarify.
Mr. Hull: You can take an action on a plan, yeah, correct.
Ms. Schneider: We need a second on David's motion.
Ms. Arinaga: Okay, I second.
Ms. Schneider: All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote)
Ms. Higuchi-Sayegusa: Wait a minute. Hold on. Back up. I'm just trying to get to my ... just
make sure we are all doing this correctly. One second.
Ms. Schneider: Jay
Administrator Furfaro: Again, Jay Furfaro, Boards and Commissions Administrator. I just wanted
to offer a little k6kua here. So again, as you get into an item, you get a second, you have a
discussion. In the discussion, it seems the question is, can you form a subcommittee? You can
form a subcommittee. It can be no more than the minority of your body. Your body is nine (9).
Okay, so it can't be more than four (4) individuals. It needs to be scheduled, posted, and announced
that you have a place to meet. And whatever your committee discussed, you have to come back
and actually make a report to the full body. Okay, so that's one (1) component.
Ms. Higuchi-Sam tg isa: Perhaps the best thing for now is ... this is brought up in the general
business... as a general business matter. For the next meeting, we can put it on the agenda on
whether or not to form this Permitted Interaction Group, and then you can have the discussion of
what's the scope and purpose of that PIG, and we can go forward and vote for that.
Administrator Furfaro: To follow up on what the counsel has just shared with you, I would take
advantage of the fact you would put that on the agenda as a discussion item under J, which is
usually your educational pieces, and from there, you could have a pretty healthy discussion about
that process. I can help the Planning Department to do any research you need on that as it relates
to OIP, but I would certainly not want to keep broadening this discussion today without us getting
into, maybe, some conflicts about procedure.
Mr. Helder: That wouldn't fall under J today on the agenda (inaudible)?
February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 18
Administrator Furfaro: But it's (the educational piece) not on the agenda.
Ms. Schneider: It's not on the agenda. It needs to be an agenda item.
Mr. Helder: Oh I see. Okay.
Administrator Furfaro: The answer to your question is yes, it would fall under J, but you need it
on the agenda.
And also, fox clarification, as I'm listening in the back did I hear that you wanted some tracking
on Bill 2602?
Ms. Schneider: We'd like to know.
Administrator Furfaro: Okay, very good. My office...for your general information, I track all the
bills for the County. And in fact, if I see something of interest, I'll make sure that, as it progresses,
I send it over to Planning...
Ms. Schneider: Thank you.
Administrator Furfaro: And I can assist them from there. So I just want to confirm you have
imerest in, .I
Ms. Schneider: Yes, we do.
Administrator Furfaro: Following 2602.
Ms. Schneider: Yes.
Administrator Furfaro: Okay, thank you.
Ms. Schneider: Thank you very much.
Mr. Helder: I would like to withdraw the motion that I made and make a different motion. I would
like to move that to the agenda for next meeting that we discuss creation of an educational
committee.
Ms. Higuchi-Saved So back to the withdrawal, do we have the second withdrawal also? Okay,
to withdraw your second?
Ms. Arinava: Second to withdraw.
Ms. Higuchi-Sayegusa: Okay, and then now you are interested inputting it on the next agenda?
Mr. Helder: Yes.
February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 19
Ms. Hi chiug�Sa e u sa: Okay.
Mr. Helder: I'm moving to put it on the agenda to create an educational committee.
Ms. Schneider: And do we have a second on that?
Ms. Arinaga: Second.
Ms. Schneider: And a vote. All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote)
Mr. Hull: And if I could...
Ms. Higuchi-Saegusa: You don't necessarily vote on that.
Administrator Furfaro: (Inaudible) Madam Chair, if a member comes to you and requests
something to go on the agenda, you are in control of agenda.
Ms. Higuchi-Sayegusa: Yeah, you don't necessarily have to vote on that, but any case ... yeah,
Mr. Hull: And if I could also ... because I...just to clarify for the Department, I apologize if the
Commission felt frustrated or is upset with the Department being that a request was made some
months ago for the educational component. When we thought we had essentially answered that
was two (2) months ago when we gave our presentation because the original plan was to have the
former County Attorney give his general orientation as an educational component. He was unable
to attend because he can't appear before a Board for at least a year after having worked in Civil
Service. So both ... myself and the County Attorney went through that slideshow presentation
educational component, and we thought that ... I was under the impression that that was in response
to the request for the orientation. If we misinterpreted that, I apologize for any offense on that,
and...
Mr. Helder: No, you didn't misinterpret it. However, it was only one (1) component of something
that's really much more complex because the ... a good portion of the laws that govern this body
and the actions that we have come from the Federal level, which the County wouldn't cover. Also,
some of the educational component would be sometimes involving having somebody come from
maybe a mainland historic district, and describe to us how they did it and how they were received
at the Federal level. In other words, the educational component that we need, which trains people
to do this job, is not just what the County requires; it's on a bigger scale. So while we really
appreciated what you guys did, we need more. And probably the stuff that we need to know and
other people need to know, here, is stuff that we've been trained on earlier, and say Pat and I would
know what those components would be because we've had a lot of them. So it didn't have to do
with that you didn't provide everything you needed to provide, but there's more that we need. But
thank you.
UNFINISHED BUSINESS (Continued)
February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 20
Re: Report from investigative committee (Permitted Interaction Group) to discuss and
explore draft update of the Kauai Historic Resource Inventory. Once formed and
the task completed, the investigative committee will present its findings to the
Commission in a duly noticed meeting for decision -making.
Ms. Schneider: Going onto the Unfinished Business. Report from the PIG. Pat or Stephen.
Ms. Higuchi-Sa egusa: Were there any communications, actually? Did you...?
Ms. Schneider: We didn't get any.
Ms. Higuchi-Sayegusa: Okay. So just clarifying, no communications on Item G. Okay, so H.1.
Ms. Griffin: Thank you, Madam Chair. The Permitted Interaction Group is going through that
long inventory that was done a couple of years ago of the Puna District and the Lihu`e Districts
for historic buildings/structures. It's in two (2) segments; fifty (50) year and older buildings and
thirty-five (35) to forty-nine (49) year old buildings. We've met twice for two (2) or three (3)
hours each time, and we are going building by building to assure accuracy and agreement and
taking out the structures that we feel are not compliant. Our PIG is our Chair, Anne Schneider,
Stephen Long, myself, and Victoria Wichman. So we will continue that process. There are 550
odd on the fifty (50) year and older list and then are another 1,100 or something on the thirty-five
(35) to forty-nine (49), so we will not have a conclusion and recommendations to bring you next
month, but we are working diligently.
Ms. Schneider: Thank you.
Mr. Long: And as a specific follow up, out of the 600 structures that axe on the list, we reviewed
115, and of those 115, we've essentially kept 20... approximately 20 on the list, removed
approximately 15 or 20, and of the remainder, we've determined that they would need more
research or photographs or follow up, which we, the PIG committee, intend to do ourselves in the
field in the future.
Ms. Schneider: Thank you, Stephen.
Mr. Chaffin Jr.: Who's on this committee?
Ms. Schneider: Myself, Pat Griffin, Stephen Long, and Victoria Wichman.
NEW BUSINESS
Re: Former Kauai Police Station
TMK: 3-6-002:005 & 022
3060 Umi Street, LYhu`e, Kauai
Proposed demolition.
February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 21
Ms. Schneider: So New Business. We have the former Kauai Police Station.
Mr. Long left the meeting at 3:55 p.m.
Paul Tonam: Madam Chair, thank you for...Committee [sic] members, thank you for having us
here today. This is Eric Agena, Director of DAGS Kauai. My name is Paul Tonaki. I'm with
Mitsunaga & Associates. I'm preparing... I'm a consultant to DAGS, and we are preparing
demolition plans for the former Kauai Police Station. I brought copies of the plans that I would
like to pass out.
Ms. Schneider: Sure.
Mr. Tonaki: So yeah, I don't have enough copies for everyone. Maybe you can share.
Mr. Long returned to the meeting at 3:56 p.m.
Mr. Chaffin Jr.: As an introduction to Mitsunaga &Associates, could you tell me a little bit about
them? Are they architects? Engineers?
Mr. Tonaki: We are an architectural engineering consulting firm. We have a staff of about six (6)
architects, more civil engineers. Our Civil Department is the biggest right now, and we have, I
believe, two (2) structural engineers on staff, and one (1) mechanical engineer. So total staff is
thirty (30),1.maybe forty (440) people.
Ms. Schneider: So it's our understanding you want to demolish this building.
Mr. Tonaki: Right. We are here today to present the State's proposal to demolish the former
Kauai Police Station. To give you a little history on the building, it was designed by Guy
Rothwell. He was a local architect/engineer and it was built in 1951. The original building was a
simple courtyard design. It was a linear, one-story building wrapped around an open courtyard.
It was a design well -suited to Hawai`i's tropical climate. However, to add needed floor area, the
open courtyard was enclosed in the late 1970's, and it would become the building that stands there
today.
We did that ... my office did that building survey and assessment last year; part of it focused on the
historical significance of the building. We concluded that the design ... the original design is very
functional, it was very economical, but we didn't find much historic relevance in the building.
That survey that you have was submitted to SHPD, and SHPD concurred with our conclusions.
There is a letter attached in that survey where they do not object to demolishing the building. The
architectural style in the 1950's was a modernist, international style; what is coined as modernist
international. The international style was characterized by flat roofs, geometric forms, a lot of
glass, strong structural expression of the structural system. By contrast, the police station design
is more straightforward and tropical in concept without strong historical elements in the building.
February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 22
So today, DAGS is proposing to demolish the vacant, dilapidated structure and in the near future,
to use the site for parking.
Ms. Schneider: Now, is it brown site because it had those tanks that were leaking?
Mr. Tonaki: The tanks were removed, documented, and the removal process was filed with the
Department of Health.
Ms. Schneider: You won't have to excavate the dirt at...?
Mr. Tonaki: No. No. The record of removal is on file with the Department of Health meeting all
standards, appropriate standards.
Ms. Schneider: Any questions? Discussion?
Ms. Griffin: Is he finished?
Ms. Schneider: Are you finished?
Ms. Griffin: Do you have morel
Mr. Tonaki: Except ... I don't know, maybe you can explain, maybe, long-term plans for the site?
Eric Agena: Okay, I don't know the proper way to address people, so I just going talk. (Laughter
in background) Okay. If you need me to speak more proper English, I can, but I rather talk just
off the (inaudible). Basically what is it is that in...
Ms. Higuchi-Saegusa: Sorry, did you state your name?
Ms. Schneider: Introduce yourself.
Mr. Agena: Oh, I'm sorry. My name is Eric Agena, District Engineer with DAGS Kauai. In this
area, in particular, we have parking challenges; I guess is a way to put it nicely where even for...
If you look at just the State employees that are housed within our facilities in that near area, if
every employee had wanted a stall, we don't have nearly enough. And that tends to tax a lot of
the surrounding areas and even the County. We get complaints. We can't control where they park
their personal vehicles, but you know, they park where they need to park. So what our hope
is ... because we know that there is the immediate ... I mean, there is this need, and we have this
building that right now is basically an attractive nuisance, yeah? That we can do away with this
structure that's really serving no purpose right now; other than to serve as a magnet for odd
inquiries, vandalism, that type of thing, and make it into a useable parcel again. In the meantime,
what's also happening is DAGS is doing a, I guess, a space needs study to ... which in turn would
then influence the master planning for DAGS to then figure out what would be the ... what options
we would have for the long-term use of that property, but at least in the meantime, we can have
parking available.
February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 23
Ms. Arinaga: I have a question. So will the parking be specific for State employees? Or open?
Mr. Agena: Okay, with my official hat on...I gotta watch because these things are... Anyway,
okay, technically, yes, it is for State. We would have signage up there saying that it is, you know,
a regulated parking for the State. Now, what I need to say is, I have my hopes of what it will end
up being, which I would then present to our DAGS folks, but I cannot ... I mean, I'm not a dictator.
I cannot determine, alone, what we do. But I have some thoughts on how best to use the property,
and I hoping that all of that gets taken into consideration. But what I would see ... or what I do
believe would end up happening is, yeah, we would have permitted parking... permitted meaning
for the State employees or whatever... that would be regulated and monitored by our parking
control people. Our parking control staff works on regular working hours. I don't know if you
can read into what I just said, but basically... so we would have during work hours, we would be
actively regulating who's parking in those areas, and it is actually for State use. If something were
to happen during off hours, we would then state that they weren't supposed to be parking there.
Ms. Arinaga: So another question, who, then, determines what that area will be? I mean, it sounds
like you have your vision of what you would like to see, but who's included in...?
Mr. Agena: Again, it would be based on the general needs of DAGS and the State
Ms. Arinaga: Okay.
Mr. Agena: So yeah, so I have my personal ones that I think would be best for that parcel, but
again, I have to vet it through the proper channels.
Ms. Arinaga: Thank you.
Ms. Schneider: Any other questions?
Mr. Chaffin Jr.: I have a comment. I think you've touched on something that's dear to my heart,
and that is the parking requirements. In our Code, the parking requirements are far, far, far too
limited. We need to have actual parking requirements, and I think this is the place to start that
reflects the actuality.
Ms. Higuchi-Savegusa: Just to clarify, we're...
Ms. Schneider: It's not on the agenda.
Ms. Hi ucg hi-Sayegusa: Yeah, we're ... our discussion should be kind of towards the purpose of
this Commission. So if there's a ... there might be another way to, you know, or a venue to bring
that up, but just to kind of ring the discussion in on, you know, historic preservation interests and
the interest of this Commission.
Mr. Chaffin Jr.: Well we were talking about parking, and that's...
February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 24
Ms. Higuchi-Save�usa: Yeah. I know, I know. I kind of...we kind of let it go, but let's keep it
more on (inaudible).
Mr. Agena: Sorry, I have a tendency to say more than I should. (Laughter in background)
Mr. Hull: I think what the counsel is getting at is that the...DAGS has a proposed use for this site,
and as citizens of Lihu`e and Kauai, we all are interested in the overall use, but for the purposes
of historic preservation review, we are actually looking at the demolition of the historical structure.
Ms. Arinaga: Okay.
Mr. Hull: And if we could reserve the comments and discussion for the actual structure
Ms. Schneider: Is there any other discussion? Pat? Stephen?
Mr. Long: Yeah, this might take some time, so _please be patient with me. On the
historical... architectural historical basis, I do find that ... this structure to have some significance,
and in a number of ways; both architecturally and its context within the community, you know, as
a center core of our downtown. So I would like to just go through your report and ask you some
questions, and perhaps you could clarify that. And these do have to do with the architectural
integrity of the building, and its historical context. I do believe that ... if you're coming to this
Commission, I believe, which is Historic Preservation Review Commission, to present us with a
demolition plan for our review is a little bit ahead... getting a little bit ahead of the conversation
and discussion about the validity of the building as an architectural significance. So with your
report, I'm just going to go through it page by page.
On Page 1, I see that you say that it is a ... was a design that was appropriate and specific for
Hawaii's tropical climate, which makes it site specific and significant to Hawaiian architecture.
I don't see anywhere on your report referenced to the fountain that was in the center of the original
building, and I think that was a significant omission and I think that was an important design
feature in that building, so it would be nice to be able to see that referenced in your report and
documented in some way.
As I go through the report, you know, you have a demolition plan of what you called a dilapidated
building, but yet, when I read your actual report, you know, the building foundation appears to be
in good condition without settling and cracks and whatnot. And actually, I would refer to that as
being in excellent condition, as opposed to good condition. I have a question. On the CMU walls,
exterior and interior, is there any problem with the tuckpointing?
Mr. Tonaki: Not that ... the walls are in good condition.
Mr. Long: Well actually, I would, then, identify those as being in excellent condition, rather than
good. Good means average. Excellent means there is no settlement cracks or problems with the
tuckpointing.
February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 25
Same with the interior walls, I would clarify that they are in excellent condition; not good
condition.
Mr. Tonaki: The interior... they might be ... I wouldn't say excellent condition.
Mr. Long: The CMU? 4-inch CMU walls?
Mr. Tonaki: Oh, CMU, yeah. I'm talking about more the frames, partition walls.
Mr. Long: Right. I'm talking about the 4-inch CMU walls.
Mr. Tonaki: Okay, okay
Mr. Long: So I would, again, once clarify those as being in excellent condition. It appears that
there are a lot of original elements that remain to the building; light fixtures, the windows, the
entry door. I'm quoting you, the original windows are still in place. They are in poor condition,
and I can see that from the photos, as well as the front entry door. Yet, those could certainly be
replicated.
In your summary and conclusions on the historical significance, once you tell us what a shame it
is that the Hamilton Building was demolished because it represents an international style, and yet,
you don't apply those same standards to this building, which not only has the simplicity of the
international style to it, but is also specifically appropriate to Hawai`i's tropical climate, which
you also mentioned in your report. So quoting Mies van der Rohe, a well-known 1950's architect
that "less is more" and "God is in the details of simplicity", I perceive that this building does
embrace those philosophies of 1950's international style of Hawaiian atmosphere.
I have a specific question about the ADA. What ... well, it's difficult to determine from the plans
that were provided what the dimensions of the toilet rooms, bathrooms, and men's room were.
Can you tell us what those were?
Mr. Tonaki: Not off hand, but they were in tight spaces, so they wouldn't meet ADA requirements.
Mr. Long: What is tight? What dimensions? A 5-foot turning radius is what's required for ADA
in a bathroom. So is it tight like 4' 11"? Or...?
Mr. Tonaki: I recall there are ... that there is not enough room around the toilets or ... there is not
enough wheelchair maneuvering space around the toilet. I'm just going by memory. And around
the doors, maneuvering space at the doors to enter and exit.
Mr. Long: But the fact is you really don't know. You state that there appears to be prohibitive
retrofitting to meet ADA requirements, but yet, you can't tell us specifically what the dimensions
of those rooms are.
February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 26
Mr. Tonaki: We didn't go and measure, but just generally looking at the bathrooms, there would
be substantial work to be done to have it conform to ADA standards. Without specifically saying
well, this was 3 feet, this was ... there was only one (1) foot at the side of the door, just generally
we saw that there would be substantial renovation to the bathrooms.
Mr. Long: What other ADA retrofitting would need to be done to bring it up to code?
Mr.
Tonaki:
It's
mainly
creating space, additional space,
in the bathrooms, and new fixtures.
Definitely new..
wwell the
fixtures would need to be changed
anyway, so...
Mr. Long: Pardon?
Mr. Tonaki: The fixtures would...they are old...they would need to be replaced anyway; the
plumbing fixtures. And there would just be a lot of demolition of walls around the fixtures to
create space in the bathrooms to meet ADA standards.
Mr. Long: I understand that the plumbing fixtures may need to be replaced to bring them up to
code, but you are showing us photos here, architectural photos, of black holes on Page ... I mean,
you can't tell anything about these spaces from the photographs that you took and provided to us.
In general, coming before the Commission, we'd like to have photographs that accurately represent
what you are trying to show us. I noted that your electrical consultant and your structural
engineering consultant provided clear photographs, but your architectural photographs were
clearly taken without a flash and are imperceptible.
Mr. Tonaki: Do you have black and white copies?
Mr. Long: No, I have color. I have color.
Mr. Tonaki: You have color?
Mr. Long: Mmhmrn. We11, it's actually black and color.
Mr. Tonaki: Black and color?
Mr. Long: Correct. I can see the green doorjamb, but I can't see the typical bathroom. So there's
really not much information for us to go on other than your opinion, which is that the ADA would
take a lot of retrofitting.
I have a specific question for DAGS in your parking lot proposal. I've heard a rumor ... not a
rumor ... I was in a meeting in which it was expressed by a County official that the parking lot
intends to be gravel. What surface do you intend to...?
Mr. Agena: The current ... what's presented right now is only for demolition of the building. The
future fully developed parking would need to follow on a separate project.
February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 27
Mr. Long: And what would be the finish of that parking?
Mr. Agena: I would presume pavement, but that's not ... that design hasn't started,
Mr. Long: So when I heard about (inaudible).
Mr. Agena: But how does this pertain to historical?
Mr. Long: I heard a gravel parking lot.
Mr. Agena: Understood, but how does this pertain to historical?
Mr. Long: It doesn't. Excuse me.
Mr. Agena: Okay.
Mr. Long: But I would ... it might have some reflection and impact on the historical nature of the
downtown area. For instance, like in your city, if somebody were to install a gravel parking lot
next to `Iolani Palace, then that would certainly impact the historical nature and atmosphere,
contextually, of that important downtown historic area.
Mr. Agena: To clarify, I was born and raised here and lived here my entire life.
Mr. Long: Right. (Inaudible)
Ms. Higuchi-Sayegusa: But any case, we're...the discussion is on the building, right? If you could
just focus on the building for now. There is no design, yet, for review.
Mr. Long: Okay. So I feel that just...if you ... I believe that this does have some architectural
significance to Kauai and there are impacts to a historic structure, and I would ask that you
perform an EIS because there are specific impacts to the historical affected structure.
You say that there are challenges to parking, but have you conducted a traffic impact study?
Mr. Agena: How would a traffic impact study be pertinent to parking?
Mr. Long: Before the Commission, you did make a comment and you said you have challenges
downtown with parking. I'm curious whether that is an opinion or whether it comes from a traffic
impact study.
Mr. Agena: It's from personal observation and from constant complaints from patrons, from
employees, from staff, so it's not something that I'm pulling out of the air. And again, I was born
and raised here. I live in Lfhu`e. I've lived here for... actually born on the west side, but I've lived
in Lihu`e since ... for the last, maybe, twenty (20) years, so I'm well ... I understand this area, I
understand the sensitivities of the area, I understand the significance of things in the area. When
February 25, 2016 KHPAC Meeting Minutes
Page 28
I look at this building, contrary to what your ... I kind of have a different view than you, as far as
the significance of the facility.
Mr. Long: That's fair.
Mr. Agena: Because it doesn't...to me, it does not ... the way it sits, the current building, detracts,
I feel, from the Lihu`e area. I don't think ... and then to try ... and as the report states, to try and do
the work involved to make it into something that is, I guess, maybe to keep what's there versus to
make something that is more functional, that will work better within the town as it is now, I think
there are significant... more advantages to moving forward with removing that building than there
are in trying to make this thing ... to throw the resources at it, to spend the money needed to try and
make that building useable again.
Mr. Long: Yeah, that's fair and it is an eyesore; that's really clear.
Mr. Agena: See, the thing is that... Oh, I'm sorry.
Mr. Long: Is there any way that, you know, there could be an adaptive reuse of that building where
the State could gain income from it? I mean, I don't know if this is really historically related, but
we are talking about restoring a historical ... a potentially historic structure. Is there any way that
there could be an adaptive reuse? That you could find a tenant that would be willing to take it
over? So that it could add to the ... you know, the pedestrian character of the downtown, as opposed
to a parking lot.
Mr. Agena: Again, I can see if this was a building that we were talking like, for example, the
former Courthouse; when you look at a building of that magnitude, when you see that, when you
drive by that. When you're looking at this, the building in question right now, I ... honestly, I mean,
the... cost -wise, I mean, we could still make something that is significantly... that's more workable,
more useable that is designed specifically for the purpose that we are ... that we would need it for,
as opposed to keeping a building for the sake of keeping a building. Again, it doesn't ... when you
look at it, 1 mean, anyone walks by and look at it, and to try and say that this is something that
is ... I don't know how to word it nicely, but I mean, it's not something that really looks like a
building where you feel wow, we gotta ... this thing has to be saved.
Mr. Helder: May I interrupt you and just ask you, I mean, subjectively, you are implying that a
gravel parking lot is more attractive than this building. And that this building is useless in terms
of adaptive reuse for something like a community education center for children, or an art center,
or something like that with the building restored to really document the history of Llhu`e around
the period of the 50's and 60's. You are also implying that that particular style, architectural style,
had no aesthetic benefit to Lpru`e. And based upon those subjective judgements that you are
making, our particular board really attempts to promote adaptive reuse and to promote retaining
things that have the character that the town originally had. It's not for us to say yes, but it's in a
place where we really could use a parking lot instead, so what we are asking you is how much of
this is subjective with the idea that what's being written here is really to promote a parking lot?
And I think that what Stephen is addressing is that this is part of what is Lihu`e history. You might
February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 29
not like it, you know, and you grew up with it and you may think that s a lousy looking building,
but on the other hand, it is one of... it is the history of the place.
Mr. Tonaki: I'd like to say that Mr. Long brought up the tropical design of the building being site
specific, but I think that was totally eliminated by enclosing that courtyard.
Ms. Griffin: Madam Chair?
Ms. Schneider: Sure, Pat.
Mr. Tonaki: So it's no longer a good example of a design that's suitable to the LYhu`e climate
Mr. Lon¢: That's a really good point. I did note that in your report. And so I don't know...see
SHPD here, but my question to SHPD is that they say, here, that it has had several alterations;
when, in fact, it's really only had one (1). My question would be if you remove the alteration to a
historic building that makes it affected, then does it not become unaffected?
Ms. Schneider: Pat.
Ms. Griffin: Madam Chair, thank you. I have much to say as well. First of all, from a local
published history of the area, the description of the former Police Station begins by saying the shell
of a building that now languishes across Hardy Street from the Courthouse was once among the
most appealing headquarters inhabited by a Police force on a tropical island anywhere in the world,
and a lot of people felt that way at the time.
I also take exception to dismissing Guy Rothwell as just a local architect. Guy Rothwell was a
president of the American Institute of Architects, Hawaii Branch. He was the supervising
architect of Honolulu Hale; that is the Honolulu City Hall for those of us who live here. He
achieved his ... he was registered as a professional engineer and architect by the Territorial Board
in 1924 and elected as a member of the American Institute of Architects in 1932. His major
buildings include Our Lady of Mystic [sic] Rose Chapel at Chaminade College, Damien High
School, Roosevelt High School, ARMCO, the first all metal pleasure craft made in Hawaii. He
also worked with craftsman here, understood to (have) built canoes to take to the Seattle World's
Fair. He ... in addition to Honolulu Hale, he was involved with the Honolulu Stadium, the King
Street, Moanalua, and Wahiawa Bridges... and you all know the Wahiawa Bridge ... O`ahu Railway
and Land Depot, the Harris Memorial Church, the Boys Athletic Club [sic] at Palama, the Hilo
Armory, First National Bank, Bishop Trust, the Charles Atherton dormitory at UH, the original
gymnasium at University of Hawaii, the Beretania, Kalihi, Kaimuki pumping plants for Sewer
and Water Commission, among other things. He designed our Shell Station, he designed the All
Saints Episcopal Church in Kapa`a, and he did hundreds of buildings around the State that are
well-known and respected in a way that this building should be, too.
This building is eligible for the National Register under criteria A and C. Criteria A is buildings
that are associated with events that have made a significant contribution to the broad patterns of
our history. And this building... yes, you are right ... it was in 1951 that it started being built, but
February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 30
it was authorized under Act 277 of the Session Laws of Hawaii in 1945, and you all will recall
that 1945 was the end of World War II and there had been Marshall Law here, there was
tremendous uncertainty, and the movement for unionization, labor unions on the plantation, had
been in (inaudible) from the beginning of the war to the end, so you have a territory that is just
coming out of the war, plantations have changed and a whole new system is about to begin, and
the development of a new police station, getting all those cops out of the second floor of
the ... where the County Council now meets ... and in a place of their own was a very important
thing. Session Laws in 1949, Item 60 was construction of police building and the loan fund.
Again, that was after a major strike that had resulted in unionization. So 1951, again, you
dismissed with a straw man by talking about international style as if that was the only style that
any buildings where built in. So those of you who are here, think about Ltgiu`e United Church, the
Hart Wood Building, with the double -pitched roof and the moss rock; that was 1951.
The DLNR, Department of Land and Natural Resources, beautifully puts out calendars every year,
and in 2005, they did one on architecture in the 50's. Here is the L-ihu`e United Church. There
are several in here, but I won't take too much. This is the Waiola Congregational Church in
Lahaina. There is nothing international about its style. One more, the Waikiki-Kapahulu Library,
and there is only a detail of it, but if you google it, you can see that, once again, this library was
not an international style. There was a very strong and vibrant movement at the time for a tropical
identification to our buildings. I might add the ILWU Building that's on Hardy Street is also in
the 1950's, and very few people would consider an A -frame as either ... as international style, and
that was designed by an honored architect, Alfred Preis, who also designed the Arizona Memorial.
Oh, and Criteria C is, that embody distinctive characteristics of a type, period, or method of
construction, or that represent the work of a master, or that possess high artistic values. We talk
about history as not being a beauty contest, so our own personal opinions of whether the State
building is a fabulous example of international styles... (Inaudible) Kagawa who also did the
building across... where ... Kalanimoku Building in Honolulu, but this is the work of a master and
it does embody distinctive characteristics of type, period, and method of construction. And I might
add, yes, the center courtyard was covered in the 70's, but they did not change the roofline of the
exterior. The courtyard is still there, and walking into a police station with a fountain in the middle
is, you know, this remarkable thing. There is still the possibility of putting offices around the
perimeter as they once were.
I also want to say that looking at the building...I sit on the Kauai Business Council, and every
fall, we meet with our Legislators and these wonderful organizations talk about human resources
and all kinds of things, and I bring this in and say you know, the County and the State never talk
to each other. And this, in the blue, is County owned facilities, the pink is State owned facilities,
and then there is a little green for Federal. The County has cherished its historic buildings and
went to our former Chair, Jay Furfaro, was... spearheaded the restoration of our County... Historic
County Building. The Public Works Department (inaudible) did a fabulous job of the Hart Wood
County Annex, which is right across street from the Police Station, and right across the street, it's
included. All of this area is a historic district; the Courthouse, the Annex, the County Building,
and the County lawn; that's a historic district. So to say that this building across from it is nothing,
February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 31
doesn't make any sense at all. And if the State would just talk to the County, which has spent the
last ten (10) years trying to develop walkable, livable communities so that...
Ms. Higuchi- ayegusa left the meeting at 4:35 p.m.
Ms. Griffin: And then DAGS we and cut four (4) trees down on Umi Street, which isn't very
walkable when the ... both trees in the Public Health Department... And I might add, the Public
Health Department is immediately adjacent to the former Police Station, and the scale of those two
(2) buildings and the school, which was designed by Ernest Hara, who is a big name in modern
Hawaiian architect. We know John Ham now is still ... his son. And so you've got a scale there,
and you've got materials there that are absolutely in keeping with the context of the area, which
we talk about in our... in looking at historic preservation.
I have an early ... the plot plan, which you all may have shown, and the ... you may have ... I could
not read these in color, but these plans on exactly where were the judges' chambers, where were
the bathrooms, where... each space, what was being used, and even the windows, from your
account, are still original and may not be in very good condition, but are eminently replaceable.
So you've got a situation where... and here's a different one. I think you showed this, but again,
it's in very bad condition how it was configured. I might add that in the 70's, people would come
in and the fountain... and they had marijuana growing there in the 70's. Do any of you all
remember this? Because they tried to ... this was from the Kauai Bureau Chief of the Honolulu
Advertiser, I found out ... they wanted to let people know what marijuana looked like, so that...
(Laughter in background) And they arrested a couple people who tried to steal it, just to let you
all know the history of the place.
The problem for me, and I have a really big problem, which is you are coming to us with a
demolition plan; without consulting at all on the historic nature of the building. I don't think that's
right. And I have to say...
Mr.
Tonaki:
The plans are
not final.
Ms.
Griffin:
Yeah, well...
But you (inaudible)
Administrator Furfaro: Excuse me.
Mr. Tonaki: Sorry,
Administrator Furfaro: She has the floor.
Mr. Tonaki: I'm sorry.
Administrator Furfaro: You can respond at the appropriate time.
Ms.
Griffin:
You've been to
the
State Historic Preservation Division first, and I
take exception
to
that
as well
because we in
this
Country really prize private property rights,
so demolition
is
February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 32
something that, across the nation, can be delayed but not stopped; except for the State. The State
Historic Preservation Division has the right of advice and consent on whether to demolish this
building. So before hearing the local boots on the ground, to go to the State and override anything
we could say is not right and I take exception to that, and hope that the Commission will agree
with me to write that Division and request them to reconsider. This is an important building. It
doesn't look like much. You're right because it's been ... you know, demolition by neglect is not
an effective treatment for preservation. We call it malign neglect. And the building... they were
planting plants here. Guy Rothwell was the architect and engineer. His son, Frank Rothwell, was
the engineer in this. And honestly, there is a tremendous opportunity for the State to finally
participate with the County on creating a private place. That is the center of the center of the
island.
Ms. Schneider: Excuse me, Pat, but we've just been told to curtail (inaudible).
Ms. Griffin: Thank you. I appreciate that, but I think this is so important and just to dismiss it and
provide a plan for creating a parking lot misses the point. So having the center of the County seat
with a historic district across the street needs further consideration and the ability to look at how
that building can be used effectively by the State.
And I'll go further, there was ... the County also did a parking lot survey and study, and they found
that at any given time, only 50% of the parking spaces were in use during the day. There is a
possibility, and I do have...
Ms. Schneider: Excuse me a second, Pat. Do we have a motion to have them come back to us
with a revised plan? Or...?
Mr. Helder: I actually have two (2) motions. (Laughter in background) I move that we set this
aside and have them return after they've had an opportunity to consult with the State; that's the
first motion.
Ms. Schneider: Do we have a second?
Ms. Arinaga: I have a question for them. Should I...7
Ms. Schneider: First...
Ms. Griffin: I second.
Ms. Arina>?a: Okay,
Mr. Helder: Okay, now we can have discussion.
Ms. Arinaga: I have a question for them. Is that okay?
Mr. Helder: Sure.
February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 33
Ms, Arinaga: Okay. So my question would be, were there any considerations to restoring the
building before the demolition plans became? I know that building. My husband was a Police
Officer in that building for many, many years. But were there any plans? Were there any studies
done as to restoring the building? Maintaining the building? Fixing it up? Anything?
Mr. Tonaki: Okay, yeah, there was...I recall there was another survey done, I believe, in the 90's
on improving the existing structure for the Police Department, and there were recommendations
for improvements to the building for the Police Department to remain in the building. I'm not sure
if those improvements tools place.
Ms. Schneider: So we have a motion and a second to come back to us with further plans. Do we
have a vote on that?
Ms. Griffin: In the discussion, before you...
Administrator Furfaro: Excuse me, Madam Chair, lei me get the procedure correct here, okay?
You do have limits on how long someone can hold the floor, okay? You need to manage that
appropriately within your judgement. You have a motion on the floor to defer this item or refer
this item, but be very careful if you go for deferral until they come back. There is no discussion,
okay? So you have a motion on the floor to basically do an invitation with a list of questions for
them to come back, that motion was seconded, and she is still allowed to have dialog, okay? Then
you can recognize other members of your Commission, okay? So you still have an open question
that was posed to the individuals.
Ms. Schneider: Okay.
Administrator Furfaro: You have the floor, sir.
Mr. Tonaki: Oh, okay. As I said, there were recommendations for improvements to the Police
Department, to the building, for them to remain there. Honestly, I'm not sure if those
improvements took place, were implemented. I'm not...
Ms. Arinaga: Thank you.
Mr. Tonaki: Yeah. I'm not sure when the Police Department moved out.
Mr. Agena: By the way, I wanted to just say one (1) more thing, yeah? It's just that what I was
stating earlier is my, again, I gotta stress, it is my personal opinion. It's not...I'm not speaking on
behalf of the State as a whole, and that's where I said I have a problem with just tending to speak
my mind. I'm not saying that that is necessarily the view of the State that everybody thinks that
building is ugly or whatever, yeah? That's not ... I just was giving my personal opinion in my... in
just my (inaudible). Maybe that would have been better if I just talk story with you on the side or
something like that instead of doing it in this kind of a forum, but it was just my personal opinion.
February 25,2016 K14PRC Meeting Minutes
Page 34
Mr. Helder: So to address the question that was asked and the response, the response was that in
1990 there might have been a study. So is that ... would I interpret that to be, no, nobody looked at
rehabbing this building? Because that's ... 1990 is a long time ago. (Inaudible)
Mr. Tonaki: The Department... the building was occupied at that time.
Mr. Helder: Right. And her question was, before this was thought about as being demolished,
was there any effort given to studying whether this building could be (inaudible)? Or was it just
written off?
Mr. Tonaki: Well, that would be up to the State. We were just hired to do the demolition plans.
Mr. Hull: If I can also interject, I mean, there is a part of the survey that states that renovation of
the structure to a point of reuse would probably be more costly than demolition and construction
of a new building. I mean, that's stated in the ... just to point out, that's stated in the survey.
Ms. Schneider: Is the discussion still on whether to have them come back with more information?
Mr. Hull: And I think for the applicant, it might help to clarify when you are saying you'd like to
defer the item in order for them to come to readdress or possibly relook at their plans. There's two
(2) potential plans out there and I think they are going to need clarification. Are you asking
them ... because what they have, essentially, before you folks is this survey which is a mitigation
measure of demolition. Now, are you folks asking them to reconsider the demolition? Or to
reconsider and amend the survey? So I think that...
Mr. Helder: No, I'm asking them to come back after the (inaudible) my second motion which is
going to be to appeal to State Historic about this project, both by telephone and by mail, so that
they realize that we have a large problem with this project. They would then consult with these
people and then perhaps when they return, we would have a different approach that would be
brought by the State; that's my goal. As I said, it can only be made in two (2) motions, so the first
is to defer so that they can go back and discuss with State, and then the second motion would be
to appeal to State through letters and a phone call from the Chairman about our displeasure with
(a) the approach and (b) the project without considering rehabilitating the building or adaptive
reuse or any of the other remedies that are available for this building. Is that good?
Ms. Schneider: Is there any other discussion of this?
Administrator Furfaro: Can I just ... I'm only touching base on procedural pieces here. Madam
Chair, so your choices are you can direct a series of questions to the Planning Department, have
them forward those questions to these gentlemen, and reschedule them to come back, but to just
defer it and not have it clear what questions you are asking and so forth, will not, in my observation,
(inaudible) a resolution.
Ms. Schneider: Alright. Well, do we have a series of questions that we would like them to come
back with?
February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page35
Mr. Helder: Yeah, I don't know where the series of questions would come in; that s not ... wasn't
part of my motion. Maybe Jay would like to make a motion ... that spells out what you are trying
to ask; that's not what I'm trying to ask, Jay.
Administrator Furfaro: I understand that.
Mr. Helder: Okay.
Administrator Furfaro: But just (inaudible).
Mr.
Helder:
And it's not what I need to
ask, either. I can ask fox it (to be) deferred so that they
can
consult
with State; State would have
the questions.
Administrator Furfaro: My office guides you on (inaudible).
Mr. Helder: Okay, okay.
Administrator Furfaro: I was giving the Chair some options. If you leave today and it's not clear
what they are coming back for, and that doesn't have to be decided in here, you can just go through
the Chair and get questions to the Planning Department. The Planning Department has already
noted another part of the report that, maybe, you want more clarification on. I'm only regarding
the procedures on suggestions for the Chair.
Ms. Schneider: So can we have a mofion that they come back and give us an explanation why
they didn't have an adaptive reuse of the building? And what possible adaptive reuse there might
be?
Mr. Helder: I don't know what to do with my motion at this moment. (Inaudible)
Ms. Schneider: Can you repeat it again?
Mr. Helder: I did, but it's... (Laughter in background) I don't know what's wrong with it.
Mr. Hull: If I may.. .
Administrator Furfaro: His motion is active and you have a second. His motion is active.
Ms. Schneider: So we can vote on the action. All in favor?
Ms. Griffin: Can you repeat the motion, please? One of you.
Mr. Helder: I would like us to defer this and request that they return at a future time after they
consult with State Historic about this pxoj ect, which would give us time to speak with State Historic
about our feelings about this.
Aebmary 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 36
Administrator Furfaro: And you already have a second.
Ms. Schneider: Second. All in favor of this? (Unanimous voice vote) Motion carries 8:0.
Mr. Chaffin Jr.': Discussion?
Ms. Schneider: Discussion.
Administrator Furfaro: There is no discussion.
Mr. Helder: It's been voted on. Okay, now the second motion that I would like to make is that I
request the Chair ... I would move that the Chair contact the State Historic about this particular
project, both by phone and by a direct letter, not going through the Planning Department
necessarily, voicing our concern about this project and the lack of consultation with us before they
made a determination, and that our interest in preserving this historic center to Lihu`e be
communicated to State Historic because they apparently are not aware of it.
Ms. Schneider: That's too bad we didn't speak to them when they were here.
Mr. Helder: Yes.
Ms. Schneider: Since they were here this morning. (Laughter)
Mr. Helder: I don't think it's for those particular guys to do though.
Ms. Schneider: Do we have a second?
Ms. Griffin: I second it. And I would like to amend that motion to ask that the State Historic
Preservation Division specifically ... the language is...reconsider their former letter of acceptance.
Mr. Helder: I second.
Mr. Hull: Just to clarify, I think... Madam Chairperson, if you choose to write a letter to SHPD on
your own on behalf of this group, indeed you can do that. There was a certain point being made
that the Planning Department not be involved. If there is going to be County of Kauai letterhead
and what not.. .
Ms. Schneider: Itshould be County.
Mr. Hull: It's going to have to get funneled through the Planning Department.
Ms. Schneider: Routed through the County. Yes, I agree.
Mr. Helder: I didn't specifically exclude the Planning Department. It could be either; whatever
would get the job done.
February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 37
Ms. Schneider: I also would appreciate some...
Mr. Helder: So we have an amendment and we have a second on the amendment.
Ms. Schneider: We need to vote.
Mr. Helder: Yes.
Ms. Schneider: All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote) Motion carries 8:0.
Mr. Helder: Now we have a motion. The motion is to have you communicate directly with State,
both by telephone and a letter; that's been seconded.
Ms. Schneider: Yes. We have a vote on it, and it's approved.
Mr. Helder: We can do that.
Ms. Schneider: Yes. Also, we'd like to see you come back with some ideas on adaptive reuse. I
mean, is it possible that somebody like Habitat or. .Would take the building over if you don't want
to be liable for the building?
Mr. Chaffin Jr.: I have a question or a comment, and I think we are getting too legalese in this
discussion. I'd just like to say to them ... have them come...study all of our thoughts and come
back with a suggestion of what to do; whether there's no way it can be retained or remodeled
structurally, so on and so forth, or whether there is a better use for it, or something that after
discussion and thinking about it in your group, you can come back with us.
Ms. Schneider: Commissioners? Stephen
Mx. Long: I don't know if this needs to be a motion, but I do have a specific request from you for
clarification and information, and that would be to provide us more detailed information about the
fountain. It is not mentioned in your report. That you provide us with an actual study and
assessment, not opinion, as to the economic viability of adaptive reuse, specifically with respect
to your statement that, for the same cost or less, the property owner can construct a new building
with higher efficiency and designed for its intended use, which I don't believe is an accurate
statement, so a survey, an actual assessment, as to the physical condition of the building, would be
appropriate, I believe.
Mr. Helder: Stephen, can I interrupt you for a moment? It's probably...
Mr. Long: No. I don't want to be interrupted right now. Thank you. Also, with regards to your
comments about ADA adaptability, I would request that you have accurate, clear photographs that
the Commission can look at when you talk about certain items, and that you are clear on what
ADA adaptability requirements would need to be done and why this building does not comply at
this time.
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Mr. Helder: I would request that you make those comments to State Historic. These guys are here
about a demolition permit. State Historic is the one that should address all of those issues about
adaptive reuse and all the lack of documentation and all of those things because they are the ones
that have signed off on this and they are the ones that we are requesting to withdraw their
agreement by pointing out the lack of things. So if you would detail those to Anne so that she
could make that part of her request of State, that would be perfect. It's very good.
Mr. Long: Thank you for your clarification.
Ms. Schneider: Thank you.
Mr. Helder: Yeah. Now we need a vote on it.
Administrator Furfaro: Just procedurally, again, that...you did not have a second on what the
gentlemen was asking to, and you need to get the second, and then amend it to reference.
Mr. Helder: No, we have a second.
Ms. Schneider: We have a second.
Administrator Furfaro: I'm sorry.
Mr. Helder: Yeah, we are in the discussion part of it.
Administrator Furfaro: Good, okay.
Ms. Arinaga: Yeah, it was discussion.
Administrator Furfaro: That's fine. It's a little late back here, and then that motion is amended as
such. Good. Got it.
Ms. Schneider: Can we have a vote? All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote) Motion carries 8:0.
Anything else? Do we need a hand count? No, we're good.
So I hope you'll come back to us with...
Mr. Tonaki: Thank you, Commissioners.
Ms. Arinaga: Thank you. Thank you.
COMMISSION EDUCATION (None)
Ms. Schneider: Commission Education. We have none.
February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
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DATE AND AGENDA TOPICS (March 24, Zulu)
Ms. Schneider: The next meeting will be March 24, 2016. We're adjourned.
Administrator Furfaro: Oh, I have an announcement (inaudible).
Ms. Schneider: One (1) announcement?
Administrator Furfaro: One (1) announcement. It's appropriate for me to share with you that on
March V. next Tuesday, we have our training session that's dealing exactly with some key points
from the County Attorney dealing with issues that really consistently come up and you should be
briefed on. We are very fortunate to have Nick Courson, the Deputy County Attorney, making
that presentation. Tomorrow is the deadline to sign up. And please, I want to make sure you
recognize...
Mr. Chaffin Jr.: When is the date again?
Ms. Schneider: March 1st
Administrator Furfaro: Tuesday, March 1st. We have a session with... And also, Chair, I just
want to say, my comments were directed at making sure that the procedure according was followed
and that the vote was recorded as the will of the body.
Ms. Schneider. Thank you.
Administrator Furfaro: I was not trying to do anything more than pointing out those rules.
Mr. Helder left the meeting at 4:58 p.m.
Ms. Schneider: No, I appreciate all your help.
Mr. Chaffin Jr.: What was the time?
Administrator Furfaro: March 1st. 9:30.
Ms. Schneider: I adjourn the meeting.
ADJOURNMENT
The meeting was adjourned at 4:58 p.m.
February 25, 2016 KHPRC Meeting Minutes
Page 40
Respectfully Submitted,
Darcie Agaran
Commission Support Clerk
Date: