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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2018_1115_KHPRC_Minutes_DraftDRAFTjTj )Rq)AIDt ousel COUNTY OF KAUA'I KAUA'I HISTORIC PRESERVATION REVIEW COMMISSION Mo'ikeha Building, Meeting Room 2A/2B MINUTES A regular meeting of the Kauai Historic Preservation Review Commission (KHPRC) was held on November 15, 2018, in the Mo'ikeha Building, Meeting Room 2A/2B. The following Commissioners were present: Chair James Guerber, Althea Arinaga, Lawrence Chaffin Jr., Gerald Ida, Aubrey Summers and Victoria Wichman. The following Commissioners were excused: Vice Chair Anne Schneider and Commissioner Deatri Nakea. The following staff members were present: Planning Department Deputy Planning Director Ka`aina Hull and Alex Wong. Deputy County Attorney Jodi Higuchi-Sayegusa. Office of Boards and Commissions Administrator Nicholas R. Courson and Support Clerk Sandra Muragin. The following staff member were excused: Shanlee Jimenez CALL TO ORDER Chair Guerber called the meeting to order at 2:59 p.m. ROLL CALL Deputy Planning Director Ka`aina Hull: Good afternoon, Chair and members of the Commission. First order of business is roll call. Commissioner Arinaga. Ms. Arinaga: Here. Mr. Hull: Commissioner Chaffin. Mr. Chaffin: Present. Mr. Hull: Commissioner Ida. Mr. Ida: Here. Mr. Hull: Commissioner Nakea and Schneider, are excused. Commissioner Summers. Ms. Summers: Here. Mr. Hull: Commissioner Wichman. Ms. Wichman: Here. Mr. Hull: Chair Guerber. Mr. Guerber: Here. Mr. Hull: You have a quorum, Chair. APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA Mr. Hull: Next agenda item is approval of the agenda. The Department has no recommendations or amendments. Chair Guerber: No recommendations? Mr. Hull: We have no recommendations to amend it ... to keep as is. Mr. Chaffin: Do I hear a motion? Ms. Summers: Yes. Ms. Arinaga: I move that we accept — Oh, I am sorry. Ms. Summers: No, I didn't ... I am sorry. Ms. Arinaga: —accept the September 20th minutes. Mr. Hull: Oh no, that's the agenda. Ms. Arinaga: Oh, wait, I am sorry, the agenda. Ms. Wichman: Second. Chair Guerber: All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote) Any opposed? Hearing none, motion passes. Motion carried 6:0. APPROVAL OF THE SEPTEMBER 20, 2018 MINUTES Mr. Hull: The next agenda item is approval of the September 20, 2018, minutes. Chair Guerber: Now. November 15, 2018 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 2 of 26 Ms. Arinaga: Now, right, I move that we accept the September 20th minutes. Ms. Summers: I second that. Chair Guerber: Discussion? (Hearing none) All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote) Opposed? Hearing none, motion passes. Motion carried 6:0. Mr. Hull: Motion passes, Chair. HEARINGS AND PUBLIC COMMENT Mr. Hull: The next agenda item is Agenda Item E, Hearings and Public Comment. For those in the audience, if there's any agenda item you would like to speak on at this time, the Chair does allow for three minutes. However, if you are here for a particular agenda item, the Chair will also be allowing you to speak then, but if you want to speak at this time, now would be the time. Seeing none, Chair. ANNOUNCEMENTS AND GENERAL BUSINESS MATTERS Mr. Hull: We have no announcements for F. COMMUNICATIONS Mr. Hull: No communications for G. UNFINISHED BUSINESS 1. Kilohana Plantation (Wilcox Homestead) TMK: (4) 3-4-005:001, Lihu`e, Kauai Proposed construction of a living room lanai. a. Director's Report pertaining to this matter. Mr. Hull: We have a Director's Report pertaining to this matter. It was received at the last meeting and remains the same. We have no changes to the Director's Report, but I believe the applicant is here to further discuss some of his proposals with you folks. Fred Atkins: Thank you Chair, for having me. My name is Fred Atkins. I am the General Partner of Kauai Kilohana Partners dba Kilohana Plantation. At the end of the last meeting, you had requested some more information from me, so I am here today to kind of give you some update on that. And also, there was, I think, a couple of commissioners that weren't here at the November 15, 2018 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 3 of 26 last meeting. Do you want me to give you a reason why we're trying to go for it or you got enough information? We can go straight to ... okay. Ms. Arinaga: I was here. Ms. Wichman: You were here? Was I the only one gone? Yes, it's fine. Mr. Atkins: Okay. Ms. Wichman: Thank you. Mr. Hull: So, Commissioner Summers, were you... Chair Guerber: She was not... Ms. Arinaga: She was not here. Mr. Hull: Did you need Mr. Atkins to go over... Ms. Summers: No, I got it. Mr. Atkins: No? Okay, that's great. Ms. Summers: Thank you for asking. Mr. Hull: Okay. Mr. Atkins: So there's a couple different issues. One of them was attaching the gutter to the main home, and I went back and I discussed it with the architect. And the way he designed it is that the gutter did not run the full length of the wall or the roof that connects to the home or goes right up close to it. He put strong brackets on there that could run under the eaves, and the water would fall into the gutter without touching the building, so that's good news for us. And then it goes ... if you see in the picture, there's a fireplace on that side. In that area we left that open because we're going to have like a planter, a low planter, around the fireplace and then the decking so you can see the fireplace itself. The architect is really beautiful. So that helps me from the historical commission side. From the Planning Department... the Building Department, if you don't touch a structure, then you need to be 10 feet away, okay. So, it's kind of a catch-22 because it's my understanding, and correct me if I am wrong, its 10 feet from wall to wall. So on the eaves of the home, there (is) an English Tudor eave and its (a) four feet overhang. So we designed a four -foot overhang on the (living room) lanai so it matched, which leaves a two -foot opening. So when you're coming out of the living room onto the (living room) lanai, there would be two feet of open air, which would create a liability problem as you're walking from one to the other. So, when we decided to put a bar in the living room to increase our revenue, because we never really had a bar in the restaurant proper, one of the things that the Building Department... the first question was, November 15, 2018 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 4 of 26 are you going to impact the existing oak floors? And I said, "No, because in 1992 with Hurricane Iwa the rafter tails left the building." They were, you know, they were nailed into the trusses and the nails didn't hold. At that time they didn't have the bolts. Since then, you know, when we redid it, they required us to put the major bolts through the rafters; through the, you know, rafters itself and hopefully that would not sustain the same type of damage. So they said since it's not the original oak floors, then we can go ahead and do the bar as long as the bar could be taken away if the home was ever returned to its natural state and, maybe, turned into a museum. So that led me to think about the rafter tails because they're not the original rafter tails. And with that, I would hope you would consider that we could put ... and it doesn't happen ... we won't even need it in all of them because the way the gutters are designed, but then we would be over the hurdle of not having it attached to the home, okay. So that is just for your consideration. Let me see. The other one — you wanted renderings. One of the Commissioners asked; she just couldn't get a good feel from the plans that we gave you, and I have to agree with her. The plans show the sketch of what it would look like and it wasn't a very good sketch. And it made it look like the patio was going to come right up to the front of the house. So she wanted a rendering to get a feel. So I've given you two angles: one from the front of the house and those, yes I got a larger... so this one right here (held up a rendering) shows it much larger of how it kind of ties in. And the one thing I want to emphasize ... we spent a lot of time on this... Mr. Hull: Fred, hold on one second here. Yes, you have to speak into the mic. Mr. Atkins: Thank you. What we try to do is we try to put ourselves in Gaylord Wilcox's place. What would he do if he tried to add something on and how would it be esthetically pleasing to the home? So Tim Bradley came up with a design that tried to match these existing peaks. There's three of them here. And this matches what we put into the back courtyard because this... everything white here, that's all brick. So we tried to match the brick, tried to match the eave lines, and that was ... we sent these plans to Gaylord and he had his architect in Honolulu look at them and we got very nice feedback. In your packet you have support letters, very strong support letter from Gaylord and his architect, the way we did the layout and the design. So that shows you as you're driving in and I think this one's a very realistic look. The second one we did — we want to give you an example of how it would look from the back or from the side. This one here (held up a rendering) — it gives you a representation (of) how it's going to look in regards to the chimney and how far it's going to go up. If you can look at the very back of this, it doesn't show the existing home so this thing makes it look as much farther out into the yard than it really is because we have a coral pathway that goes right through it; but this was Palms Architecture. And I went down and said, you know, it doesn't really ... it shows the look and the design, and he said this is the right height but this tree over here, the way ... if he would've done it and put (it) exactly where this tree is, you wouldn't see this much. So he was trying to give you more of an idea of how this looks in relationship to the height and that was one of the questions that was asked. But in regards to where exactly... it doesn't stand out like that. There's another rendering here that I presented the first time around and it shows the ... it shows just a little more of the side angle. So it's tucked behind this ... the palm that you see right here that's ... and you can see that on the first one ... on the first page, it's tucked behind that, so it's pretty far around the side. And this one shows a more ... little more the walkway, where this one November 15, 2018 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 5 of 26 is way beyond it. So I just wanted to bring that to your attention. It looks like its way out, it doesn't go that far, it's like 20-something feet out in the yard; this (is) a massive yard. The other thing that I definitely want to make sure you understand is this — when you walk out onto the (living room) lanai, you're looking at a beautiful poinsettia tree. The poinsettia tree takes up about half of the lanai. That is not going to go away and it'll be pruned a little, but that is going to be like the focal point of being on the lanai because that will be lit up at night; this can be gorgeous, okay. It also gives us access to this side lawn, so with this we can do ... we have a lot of requests from local people that want to do special dinners for, like, 40 or so, and we really don't have ... the private dining room holds about 30. We do 40 and it's in the restaurant and it really ... the ambiance kind of leaves when you have people really partying, you know, and then the rest of the people are there for a romantic dinner or they're trying to have some kind of conversation. So this would help us financially and that's the main thrust of this. I did talk to the historical people in Honolulu because it was mentioned to me that we should not be paying land taxes that are on the State Historical Register, and that's what she thought and she looked at it and in Honolulu they do not pay tax, okay. Kauai does and that's about $76,000 a year. I was kind of excited, but then I didn't think she was right because we are Special Use Commercial, but even in Honolulu it was Special Use Commercial (and) they waive the land tax. So we need to try to find a different way of increasing our revenue so we can pay for upgrades, okay. The next 18 months we are going to look at about a half million dollars' worth of upgrades. We have to redo the roof, we got to redo the oak floors again, we got to tent the place and to build this would cost about $150,000 is what I am estimating. So, those are the reasons we're doing it. I would be more than happy to answer any questions that you have. But, we would like to move forward if possible. Chair Guerber: Are there any questions? Mr. Atkins: No questions? Chair Guerber: I have to say I was really concerned about this, not that I ... I visited the place, twice, since the last meeting. This really helps a lot ... this rendering helps a lot. I was afraid that it was going to come out so far that we were going to have ... you were going to have to chop down a tree, and it's not even close to it. Mr. Atkins: No. If you look at the plans and I don't have the plans right in front of me but I think you have there ... I think its 20 something feet, or 26 or something, by ... it's longer than it is wider. You know, like I said, it won't even go across that middle ... we have a walkway that takes us back to Clay Works and the other shops that we have in the back. Chair Guerber: That walkway has to move, right? November 15, 2018 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 6 of 26 Mr. Atkins: No, it doesn't have to move. It doesn't get to the walkway. So that'll give you a better description. That's why when I saw this, I wasn't too excited because it's nice, it looks nice, but it doesn't ... it looks massive... Chair Guerber: It looks massive. Mr. Atkins: It looks big. Chair Guerber: This looks much larger than... Mr. Atkins: Yes. Chair Guerber: I saw the walkway... Mr. Atkins: Yes, and I asked them, I went down and I said, you know, this ... a rendering should be a rendering, why can't ... he said one of the problems is that tree. You know, if I did it from that angle with the tree there, you wouldn't see it. That's why I said if you look at the back wall, they didn't even show the back wall, you know. The first one really shows exactly how it's going to fit in. This one, I don't know, I don't do renderings. I didn't ... I couldn't understand why he said they worked on it a little more. But I said I don't want you to not make it smaller where the dimensions... the roof ...they were concerned how that would look from the side with the chimney. So, my thing ... I didn't like that side of the house because the roof is flat. It's the only place because it has a deck up there off the master bedroom, and I have a picture of that. So, if you look at this, here you can see that flat roof. This is the most — Chair Guerber: This is how it looks now. Mr. Atkins: Yes, it's the least esthetically pleasing part of the property. If you look at that and you look at this, even though it's not to the, you know, dimensions. The dimensions this way, on this one, you can see where you can still see the courtyard, you can see all, you don't ... in that picture there's that tree. You don't see that nice curvature when you first look at the home, you know, where there used to be the nursery, but this — I am telling you — it's going to look gorgeous when it's done. Mr. Hull: Just a quick question. Is Palm Architecture your architect then, for the project? Mr. Atkins: No. Mr. Hull: Or they're just doing the renderings? Mr. Atkins: No, Tim Bradley is the architect that did the plans; he doesn't do renderings. Tim still drafts with his pencil, okay. He's one of those old-style, beautiful work but that was something and so a gentleman John at Palms Architecture is the one that did it. November 15, 2018 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 7 of 26 Chair Guerber: So everyone should know that everyone read Alex's report and there were three criteria that he has to have met. And two of them, I think, are met and the other one we have to excuse, I suppose. Mr. Hull: What, what... Chair Guerber: That's the distance, the setback distance? Mr. Atkins: Well, that's more of a County, is that... Mr. Hull: Yes, that's not something (that) you folks need to review, as far as setbacks. They're just hard fast standards as far as you have to meet them for a certain degree. And one of the issues that our report was bringing up is, and Mr. Atkins kind of highlighted on, is whether or not it's going to touch. And regardless of where we are in the project, it was kind of like, if it touches, arguably it triggers all types of other requirements, including but not limited to that very lengthy and expensive environmental review (sic) process, and so that was the trick, I think. Mr. Atkins himself was kind of basically ... how do we propose something that doesn't necessarily physically touch the building? And so... Mr. Atkins: So, Ka'aina, just drawing clear what you just said that if it touches, then is it the Commission... through this Commission that would be triggered or... Mr. Hull: No, no — Mr. Atkins: The Planning... Mr. Hull: —the Planning Department itself. Mr. Atkins: I got to go to Planning (Department), so they understand from here it's not a done deal. I still got to go to Planning (Department). Mr. Hull: Still got to go to the Planning Department. And I think as long as we're able to resolve that, the Department doesn't have any further concerns over the project. The one that I can bring up but I think can be resolved at the Planning Department level is ... and I really appreciate what Mr. Atkins has provided with the renderings and what Palms Architecture (has) done so we can really get a feel for it. The one issue, and there is some debate among, I think, a lot of people — but under the Secretary of Interior Standards for Preservation, when you have a historical site and you have a new building, while common, you know, sense practice will say of course you got to make that building blend in with the historical structure, which Mr. Atkins has done. It feels and looks wonderful. I think historic preservation that the Secretary of Interior Standards aren't really concerned so much with the aesthetics as they are with preserving the story of that original structure. And so that's why the standard generally is to make that new structure, while it can blend to a certain degree, it has to be a distinctive element that separates it from the original structure. And I am not sure if this structure has a specifically distinctive element that does separate from it. Having said that, though, I think during the permitting process that that could be worked out. November 15, 2018 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 8 of 26 Mr. Atkins: I respect what you said, Ka'aina. I am just going one process at a time and you know, we tried to keep the ... our tag line is a glimpse of Kaua`i's past and we've had it for 31 years, and it's to our benefit sometimes and to our detriment because local people think we're just a special occasion host, you know, classy — Mr. Hull: Yes, yes. Mr. Atkins: It goes back and forth with that but I've always stayed with keep Kilohana, Kilohana, and keep Gaylord's... that feel, but it's the expenses of running a restaurant nowadays with all the health care, and property insurance will probably go up with the disasters this year on the mainland and California fires. It just never stops, so. Mr. Hull: Yes, and to Mr. Atkins credit, you know, we're kind of hemming and hawing over a lot of things, but at the end of the day, what he's been able to do is take a piece of Kaua`i's story, a piece of Kaua`i's history and actually turn it into an enterprise that's not just (for) tourists, but indeed the public and the local public can interact and engage with that history. And there's not many areas on Kaua`i's built environment where you can do that, so I really appreciate the efforts he's making there. I think also, too, in this distinctive from new ... we're going to get into a discussion later on (in) the agenda because that very same discussion came up in which one of the Commissioners was like, "No, I want the structure to look exactly like the other building" and that's what Commissioner (sic) Atkins was doing, actually, with his proposal. And that's what I am saying ... I don't think it's a sticking point for the Planning Department. The Planning Department has no further input or comment on the application if the Commission is ready to act upon it. I think some of that distinctive architecture element can be resolved during the permitting process, but at the end of the day, I leave it for you folks to discern on what to ... what course of action to take. Ms. Summers: So I was more concerned when I saw the drawings about how much it looked like the existing scene. This rendering makes me feel like it's different enough that even the railings on the hand -drawn one look a little bit more like they're trying to be historic, whereas ... and I don't ... you know it's the rendering that I am responding to. This appears different enough to me but within the same vocabulary as far as the roof and everything that I feel much better after seeing this as far as being different enough but yet fitting in, so that you don't feel like you put something very (inaudible) in relationship to the existing. Mr. Hull: You see, that's why Aubrey is a Commissioner. Because ultimately, what I was going to do — both myself and Alex and even Myles, we're not architects — but what I was going to do is turn around to an architect and say is this distinctive enough, what do you think, and I think Commissioner Summers comments are to that point. Thank you, Commissioner. Mr. Atkins: Thank you for your input. Chair Guerber: Do I have a motion? Ms. Summers: I motion to accept. November 15, 2018 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 9 of 26 Chair Guerber: That's good enough. Ms. Arinaga: Second. Chair Guerber: All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote) Oh discussion, any discussion? Larry? Mr. Chaffin: This is slightly off the subject but your intent is to keep it as historic as possible? Mr. Atkins: Yes. Mr. Chaffin: And I think what you've done in the living room is obnoxious — putting that bar in — and I've mentioned that every time. You said it increases your cash flow but it certainly spoils that ambiance of the living room. Mr. Atkins: And I respect your opinion. On the other hand, people will walk into — Mr. Hull: I am going to step in right here. I appreciate you want to respond, Mr. Atkins. At the same time, I do have to step in and say that in order to have this discussion on a public forum that has been under Sunshine Law published, it has to have a properly agendized and this is not. I respect your input as well, Commissioner Chaffin. At this time, if you want to discuss, you know, other aspects of how the historic structure is run, you can discuss that with the Chair by having that put on the agenda. But right now, that is not on the agenda and not really up for discussion. Chair Guerber: Well, I maybe, should say something about the commercial aspect of this since I own an establishment kind of like Fred's. And it is difficult to maintain a profitable business and what we're concerned about here is to preserve, somehow to preserve this wonderful piece of art through time, this building; it needs maintenance and this restaurant helps maintain it. It brings revenue in that will go back into it and keep it for all of Kauai. And actually, it lets people, all people — come to see it and experience it inside, which is very important to me as a part of the community. So I feel that this will enhance your business and I am really all for that. Okay, take a vote. All in favor? (Few responses) Opposed? (One response) Ms. Summers: Do you want to take a roll call? Mr. Hull: Yes, let's do a roll call vote. The motion is to accept as proposed the improvements to the subject property. Commissioner Arinaga. Ms. Arinaga: Accept. Mr. Hull: Commissioner Chaffin. Mr. Chaffin: Deny. Mr. Hull: Commissioner Ida. November 15, 2018 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 10 of 26 Mr. Ida: Accept. Mr. Hull: Commissioner Summers. Ms. Summers: Accept. Mr. Hull: Commissioner Wichman. Ms. Wichman: Accept. Mr. Hull: Chair Guerber. Chair Guerber: Accept. Mr. Hull: Motion passes, Chair. Thank you, Fred. Motion carried 5:1. 2. 3 Palms, LLC (Douglas Baldwin Beach House) TMK (4) 5-5-002:107 5242 Weke Road, Hanalei, Hawaii 96714 Proposed conversion of an existing historic dwelling unit into an accessory structure, addition of new decking, and removal of the existing kitchen facilities. Proposed demolition of existing garage associated with existing historic residence. a. Letter (10/9/19) from Ian K. Jung, Belles Graham Proudfoot Wilson & Chun, LLP. b. Director's Report pertaining to this matter. Mr. Hull: Which I don't believe there have been any further amendments made to our Director's Report, so it stands as is. This agenda item was ultimately ... a motion was made to approve and accept as proposed. The vote was taken. While the majority held the vote in approval, the rules of the Commission require, at a bare minimum, a quorum majority, meaning you need at least five votes in the affirmative to pass the agenda item. So being that there was no action, essentially because there was not enough votes for an action, it is being brought back to you folks for discussion. And I believe Mr. Jung has a bit more to add to try and convince five of you fine people to ... go ahead. Mr. Ian Jung: Okay, good afternoon Chair, members of the Commission, Ian Jung on behalf of the applicant 3 Palms, LLC. Also with me is Marc Ventura, the architect of record who will be working on the project as well. Following the last meeting, as the Deputy Director indicated, we did have no action on the item, so one of the Commissioners requested that we do additional renderings to show how there's going to be a setup buffer, as well as a vegetative buffer, between the rehabilitated Douglas Baldwin Beach House and the proposed new structure and guest house. So when we looked at it, you know, I think we just heard from the Deputy Director about the philosophical theories of the Secretary of Interior Standards. One of the important things, I think, when looking at ... I mean there's all kinds of scenarios you can run into, but one of the important things when you look at a singular structure on the Registry is how ... how you November 15, 2018 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 11 of 26 can build on the same property that's not where the registered property is. And so that issue brings it to the proximity issue. And so one of the Secretary of Interior Standards is when you're going to ... and I think it's sort of a modernist preservation approach that actually originated in the late 1800s from this guy John Ruskin. But his theory is that you try and create what's referred to as potential opposition, where you make the rehabilitated structure distinct from the proposed new structures. And this applies, well I think, when you actually have a singular structure versus in an area where you have a historic district or landmark, where there's multiple structures that are on a registration for a similar feature, architectural feature that holistically is an entire area. So what we're trying to do here, just to recap; I think there were two commissioners that were here. The Douglas Family Beach House, which is on ... if you look at the pane on the top right, there's that structure there, which is the existing residence that was built in the 1920s. There were some alterations to that structure one in 1935 and the other one in 1960s that added some ... some features that warrant historic to the context of vernacular style of what it was. So our proposed approach on this is to look at doing a rehabilitation to the historic structure but a conversion of its use, so we could build a residence in the back. And that was the main question that was an issue in the last Commission meeting. So these photo's here, looking at the bottom left pane, you can see that's... there's a request, we show a photo from the beach. And as indicated in the last meeting, the new structure will be outside the shoreline setback area. We did a certified shoreline to that effect and visually it's set back, kind of like how the old historic homes were at the time in the Hanalei Bay area where you had a great big front yard. Alright, then going laterally over to the right pane, that's looking at the structure from sort of the first jaunt of the yard coming up from the beach. And so, looking at that, you can see the home is of a contemporary modern style where there's a lot of wood and glass involved in it. And then looking at the top pane where we just look ... the rehabilitated structure will be vegetated to have that mitigation. So when you're looking from the road it would be very difficult to see the new proposed structure in the back. And then with this angle as you drive by you won't even be able to see the guest house. The guest house will be about 20 feet in-between some trees and you can see that on the site plan which is the top left pane. On the site plan there, you can see how there's some vegetation that'll block the Douglas ... the rehabilitated Douglas Family Beach Cabin (sic) from the guest house and then a distance of about 60 feet from the rehabilitated historic structure over to the proposed new residence. And so with this ... with this approach we're trying to maintain the preservation of the structure restored to its original character from what we know. Unfortunately, our historic architecture consultant, Glen Mason, was unable to find original photos of the house. We did find some more recent photos of the house and then with the help of Marc and another architect we're able to basically work to restore what that house would probably look like. We didn't enclose ... the lanai was enclosed in the 30s but we left that to keep the vernacular style sort of in line with what it appeared like it was in the past. So this, I hope is enough information now for the Commission to take action on this. The request for these additional renderings, I think, helps give that perspective, but if you have any questions either Marc or myself can address those for you. Chair Guerber: The last meeting, which I was ... I did not attend, there were two commissioners that objected to this. Can you tell us why? November 15, 2018 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 12 of 26 Mr. Jung: I think Commissioner Schneider had a concern about how the new structure would look from a massing standpoint and a style standpoint on the registered property. And the issue was how do you affect the registered property or the historic structure itself? So the way we're looking at it is we would like to restore the historic structure to what it was, you know, as a feature of its time and place, and to maintain it, and keep it, and then build the new residence in the back ... sort of in the back two-thirds of the lot. And I am not sure... Chair Guerber: You're kind of hiding the new structure from the street and letting the historic structure stand. Mr. Jung: That's correct and I think from a visual standpoint, you know, that would be the structure that would want to be seen, you know, and understood of what it was in its time and place. So that would remain visible from the Weke Road location but in the back, we'll try and mask as best as we can, you know, with the vegetation elements that we show on the site plan to mask how that structure will be seen from the roadway. But as you know with the north shore development plan, we have a 25-foot height limitation, so (it) would be hard to see it anyways because it'll be ... although it'll be 2 stories, it'll still be below that 25-foot mark. And the other Commissioner was Mr. Chaffin, who didn't have too many comments on it; I think just voted no. Mr. Hull: The comments that Commission Schneider... Ian is referring to is somewhat what we were talking with (inaudible). And part of me is kind of with Commissioner Schneider in a sense that why on earth would you create something so vastly different looking? It doesn't have that right feel. So there is a part of me that understands where Commissioner Schneider is coming from sitting in the role and having to ... this role and still having to adhere to preservations elements, I understand why they are there. Like I said on the previous application, they are there to ensure the protection of a particular area's built environment story. And the story behind that building is that was the type of building it was in the time and place (and) you don't try to replicate it with a faux 1930-ish, 1940-ish plantation house. So I can completely understand where Commissioner Schneider was coming from. But ultimately, and that's why the Department isn't any different to those sentiments and to those philosophies, we do adhere to the Secretary of Interior Standards despite some not necessary liking the outcome of it. But at the end of the day, the Department can stand by the recommendation because it aligns with the Secretary of Interior Standards of having a distinct structure different from the one with historical integrity. Ms. Wichman: Ian, I have a question for you. Mr. Jung: Sure. Ms. Wichman: You wrote here about the historical character that you're going to keep it remaining as a record of its time. Then it goes... however, the applicant should enjoy the right to contrast the architect of the past by allowing a contemporary feature or design that may very well be recognized as a significant — in the future. So is that just like maybe this would happen? Mr. Jung: Well, I think and that was sort of the theory of...and this goes somewhat when they were rebuilding cities and how do you allow for architecture of the past to sort of be merged with November 15, 2018 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 13 of 26 new architectural theories. And I think, you know, in all architects — and I am sure Marc can chime in on this — there seems to be like this willingness to have a freedom of their own expression, and so with a modern structure like this, it's almost as if they feel okay, this is how ... this is my new creation, which may be in the future a record of its time for the modern contemporary design. And that's the point I was trying to make, where you know I am not saying that this will be something that's going to be a notable (inaudible) house or something like that in the future. But you never know because of its type of design where it's a unique feature from an architect who may be a normal person and not necessarily know but in the future, it could be an important thing that could be looked at as a record of its time in the future. Because ironically, you know, I know the Transient Vacation Rental (TVR) issue has been sort of this ongoing elaborate issue with the County, but the Douglas Baldwin Family Beach House was like one of the first TVRs in Hanalei. It was like this vacation rental, not vacation rental but a vacation house. So moving forward from that, you know, having a new contemporary residence that contrasts with an old historic might be a cool feature 50 years from now. It actually may be eligible for the Registry because the standard under State Historic Preservation Division (SHPD) is 50 years. Ms. Wichman: Thank you. Mr. Hull: So Ian, are you saying that you guys are amenable to having a plaque identifying this as ground zero for TVR appropriation? Mr. Jung: It's not a vacation rental, for the record. Chair Guerber: Any other discussion? Does someone want to make a motion? Yes. Mr. Ida: There's a pool on this property? Or there will be a pool? Mr. Jung: Yes, so the pool is proposed. It's actually going to be on the roof. And so you have the bedrooms up top, which Marc pointed out, and then on the side it's a roof. And it's a little unique because this is in the open district and so it's constrained for land coverage so there's not a lot of land coverage; it's a 10 percent threshold for land coverage. Mr. Ida: What's a green roof? Mr. Jung: A green roof is a ... maybe, Marc, he can better explain this, but the idea is they're going to put some vegetation along the rim to sort of mask the visual impact of it. And so along the rim of the roof line adjacent to the bedroom... Marc, if you can point that out. Marc Ventura: Yes, so the pool here on top is basically planters, it's basically... Mr. Hull: Oh, hold on Marc, hold on for one second. Mr. Ventura: Hello. Okay, yes, so a green roof is basically a roof top garden. So it's a garden with planter box that is integral to the roof, so it's not a roof plan here. November 15, 2018 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 14 of 26 Ms. Summers: So it's literally green because of the plantings and then it's also more environmentally acceptable on a roof. So it's kind of... Mr. Ventura: Sort of absorbs heat, mitigates heat and what not. It runs the perimeter... these particular images, you can't... there's a planter that runs along the edge of the roof top there. I think I'd just like to point out a couple of things about the ... this particular design. Although it is a modern design it is ... I think it's so far from being an ostentatious design there's just very little detail ... it's a very simple structure. Its glass with a couple of solid sort of pilaster elements and glass and then basically the floor plane that we're trying to make green. There's a pool on the roof, yes, but it's really a low impact I think, as you can get, but it was just trying to be a very light low impact structure. The other thing I'd like to point out is that while 20 feet is your typical plane height for a two-story building, plus your roof, because we have a flat roof, the top of that roof is at 20 feet, so it's a pretty low-lying structure. Again, just a pretty minimal impact as far as that goes for a modern structure but it was really just about transparency and almost you can see through it. Ms. Summers: What's the material on the solid portions? Mr. Ventura: The structural frame is going to be concrete but it's going to be wood clad. So we want to do a wood, like an ipe wood, so it would be a weather resistant hardwood that's going to clad the whole thing. Ms. Summers: Is that what the fence is also? Mr. Ventura: Yes, that's what the fence is and we're looking at, kind of, maybe putting that on the existing structure as well. Ms. Summers: So the new will be allowed to gray out also? Or will it be gray out like the fence? Mr. Ventura: Yes, it'll naturally finish over time. Ms. Summers: So it'll look kind of (like) the color of the bark on these... Mr. Ventura: Yes, yes, that's right. The intent is to really kind of have a natural ... and there's not a lot of finishes, either. We're trying to minimize and just make everything uniform so while the floors wood clad perimeter everywhere and glass. That's pretty much what... Ms. Summers: And plantings and green... Mr. Ventura: And plantings and green and... Ms. Summers: Wood. Mr. Ventura: Yes, yes. November 15, 2018 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 15 of 26 Chair Guerber: Just how far is the new building from the old? Mr. Ventura: Approximately 60 feet. Mr. Jung: Yes, I measured it at 60 feet. Mr. Ventura: So... Chair Guerber: Six -zero. Mr. Jung: Six -zero. Ms. Summers: It looks farther on here if you look at the ... well, sorry, I can't tell where that deadline is. I think it's here? Mr. Ida: These are separate buildings? Mr. Ventura: No, these are ... there're all one building... Mr. Hull: Sorry, gentlemen, sorry. Gentlemen, you're (being) recorded for the purpose of recordation and so Aunty Sandra is glaring at me. If you can speak into the microphone. Mr. Ventura: Yes, this is actually a roof plane here. So that's what you're seeing is the roof. But these are... its all one building but this is the second story of... sorry, I can't quite get the mic over there. So, what you're seeing there are these three bedrooms on top. It's all part of the structure. I am going to point it out here. Those are those three bedrooms, if you will, on top and then this is the roof deck and the pool. So there's three bedrooms and that's the deck. So really, your 20-foot height only happens at this ... that's the second story area, is right there on those three bedrooms. Mr. Ida: What are these? Mr. Ventura: Those are ... that's a graphic for pool side seating, adjacent... Ms. Summers: That's the lounge seats — Mr. Ventura: Lounge seating. Ms. Summers: —we'll be invited to when the project is done. Mr. Ida: Are all these trees big trees or like existing? Mr. Ventura: Some are existing, some are relocated, some are being ... where this new structure is going they're actually relocating these. I think it's the dark ones that are being replaced. So some will be relocated and some will be new. November 15, 2018 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 16 of 26 Mr. Jung: I have the plan if you want to see the tree plan, which was in the original set that went out to the Commission. Mr. Ida: This wall is (inaudible). Mr. Ventura: Yes, there's actually a wall there now, but that's going to be a new wall that's going to come in. It's going to be a six-foot top, so it's going to be under six feet. Ms. Summers: It's a fence, a wood fence. Mr. Ventura: Wood fence. Ms. Summers: Not a wall, right? Mr. Ventura: Yes, yes. Mr. Jung: Here's the relocated trees. These are the existing trees and these will be the relocated trees. Chair Guerber: Any other questions? Ms. Wichman: I have a question, please. Has there been any archaeology done on this property? Mr. Jung: Not yet. And so the way the process is for us to get through this initial phase, then we go in and will do the test trenching for when the ... once we relocate the structure once we get this first round of approvals on how to convert over the residence. Ms. Wichman: Seems like we would want to know that before putting a new structure on top of something? Mr. Jung: Yes, no, so we're going to get into ... once we get the foot plan, you know, have the foot print laid out and we know we can move forward with the rehabilitation of the Douglas Family Beach House (sic) and then allow for the second structure. Then our next phase is to do the archaeology and ensure that there's no historic remains under the subsurface. Mr. Chaffin: Prior to actual construction? Mr. Jung: Correct. Chair Guerber: Could we stipulate that if you find anything that you come back to us? Mr. Hull: Yes, so generally what happens if they find a particular ... like an iwi, then they would go to the Burial Council and work with the Burial Council on what to do for mitigation or ... yes, for mitigation should iwi be found. If there's anything above and beyond that, like if there are archaeological features that is to be (handed) over to SHPD and indeed come back to here. But November 15, 2018 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 17 of 26 in most scenarios out here, the only thing that you're probably going to find out there is ... if you do find anything, (it) is going to be iwi, which would result in them going to the Burial Council. Mr. Jung: Yes, we would chart that a new course in going through ... if we do the archaeological inventory survey and I do the test trenching and I come out clean. You know, we start construction and we find something, then it becomes an inadvertent find. But if we find something when we go through our archaeology inventory survey, then it's a known burial site and we go through a separate process. So there's two separate processes that would convert to SHPD in one course and the Burial Council in another. Mr. Hull: And so one course of action where it could end up back here, say, is ... say they do in their trenching, find iwi. Go to the Burial Council. The Burial Council says keep in place but move the structure in this matter and, say, they move the structure in a manner which may not have been accounted for by this Commission in its analysis (of) the historical impact on the structure, then it would come back to you folks for another possible round of review for siting and whatnot. Mr. Jung: And that's statutory, so we would have to go through that process anyway. Chair Guerber: Okay. Any other questions? (Hearing none) Is there a motion? Ms. Summers: I motion to accept as presented. Chair Guerber: And a second? If not, I second. No, I can't. Commissioner Chaffin seconded. Chair Guerber: All in favor? Oh, sorry. Discussion? (Hearing none) Is there anyone from the public that (would) like to come forward and discuss? (Seeing none) No discussion. All in favor? (Unanimous consent) Opposed? Hearing none, it passes. Motion carried 6:0. Mr. Hull: Motion passes. Mr. Jung: Thank you very much, Chair. 3. Request (10/16/18) from Max W.J. Graham, Esq., Authorized Agent, to amend the proposed building design for an office and gift shop addition involving Use Permit U- 2005-22, Variance Permit V-2005-6, Class IV Zoning Permit Z-IV-2005-28, Tax Map Key: (4)3-6-005:005, LYhu`e, Kauai, Kauai Museum. Mr. Hull: Just a little background on this. As you can see there's no Director's Report on this. The Historic Preservation Review Commission reviewed this proposal about two years ago, I want to say, and pretty much was in complete agreement with the proposal. Many were very happy with what was being proposed. There's actually been a series of proposals. Some of them — this Commission had severe reservations and criticism concerning the particulars of particular proposals to punch through one of the stained glass windows for a walkway. Of course you folks let the applicant know that that would not be acceptable in historical preservation terms and they November 15, 2018 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 18 of 26 took that to heed and came back with the separate proposals you guys reviewed a year and a half to two years ago. We're all good with it. There was some concern about the rock facade and the applicant is here now just to kind of go over the rock facade issues and to see if there is any agreement on their proposal at this time, so. Mr. Jung: Good afternoon, Chair, members of the Commission, again. Ian Jung on behalf of Kauai Museum and with me here is Chucky Boy Chock the Executive Director of the Kauai Museum. We just went through the Planning Commission actually last week Tuesday. And just for a little bit of background on the project, I know some of you who are sitting on the Commission heard it before when they were going through the environmental assessment for the project because of the use of State funds that were being applied to do the work. In this particular case, we appreciate the hastiness to get this on the agenda because we asked the Planning Department to do this as soon as we possibly could because we have the grant-in-aid coming up for an extension. We wanted to show that we're actually getting a good degree of progress on this project, so what we did is we looked back and just for project background — what we're doing is adding ... and there's two buildings. The Wilcox Building was built in 1924, which was originally a library and then the Rice Building was an addition where we're going to propose this new addition. And unlike the two past projects where they were sort of disconnected, this one is an actual physical addition to a historic structure. And so what we're looking at here is adding this north wing, which Chucky will explain what the use will be. But the north wing will add about 1,000 square feet for new space for the museum and some of the previous iterations were ground -level proposals but in this case, it was elevated so we could use that space below as sort of like the pa`ina space that the tent was out there for in the past few years. And so with this new approach, we looked at it from a historical prospective and Ron Agor was the architect. And Ron's conversations with SHPD on this is they actually wanted the rock wall veneer that was proposed. And I went back and I took a look at the Commission minutes from a ... I think it was March 24, 2016, two years ago. There was some concern by the Commission about the type of rock wall veneer, so what we did is we got a sampling for you. There's two sample photos: one is the actual sample that's used by the contractor and then another one is the actual installation of it. As many of you know, the use of moss rocks has been somewhat of a controversy recently about where and how you get those rocks. And so there's this company out of Oahu where a contractor found that they actually design these rocks and cast them in Honolulu where it actually has a good physical appearance of how it should be. Ms. Wichman: They're not real? Mr. Jung: They're not real. Yes, so it's a veneer and I had the same concern looking at it. Because typically when you don't ... you know what we just discussed is, when you build a new addition compared to something of the past, you want to make it distinct, so the historic structure can stay sort of a standout compared to the new structure, but this is a physical addition and in the conversations the architect had with a then-SHPD employee and a (inaudible) they actually wanted this rock veneer. And I know some of you would see how the concern would be looking at it from the County Rotunda, looking out to the east on the west wall, how it looked, but Chucky did some research with the contractor and found that you can actually... because that rock wall has been aged pretty significantly and it has that red dirt tint that it's almost like that west side rock. And so they're able to match that tint to make the photo element here (that) I November 15, 2018 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 19 of 26 have to be that color. And it's going to be sort of a creative approach on how they attach it to the sheet rock because if you look at the existing structure, there's some lateral lines... concrete lines that sort of create bands of those rocks so we're going to have to mimic that as well. So if you have any questions, we can answer questions to that, but I'll turn it over to Chucky to explain the proposed use for that new structure. Mr. Chucky Boy Chock: Thank you. Chucky Boy Chock. I think the best example for this is Punahou School. They've been doing hundred, little over a hundred thousand square feet of this same rock like our library, like our building to match it, and they got more work there at Punahou School. Conrad Nonaka, if you know him, Kauai Chef who just passed his dream building is being completed with this look also, (and) it's called the Culinary Center in Honolulu on Diamond Head. So ... and they make it look old. So that's the best analogy and as far as the space, this is for an exhibit center for mainly traveling exhibits and of course in-house exhibits. That's really what it's for. It's for the community and it's really geared to, not only our kids our children but also for our Kupuna. Mr. Jung: And just to update the Commission, we did get comments back originally from SHPD on this about not only the rocks but also they wanted some vegetation along the ... looking on the north face of the wall where you have the columns going up, just a mass sort of that greenery where you look into the museum. And I don't think I circulated that one, Alex, but did you pass that to the Commission, the SHPD comments? The SHPD letter? Mr. Alex Wong: No, I did not, I did not print that out, sorry. Mr. Jung: So we're happy to answer any questions. The Planning Commission did approve it on Tuesday and the reason we had to go to the Planning Commission is because this particular area is a Special Treatment Public District. So any three-dimensional addition to a structure triggers a Use Permit, so we had to amend the existing permit, but we had the condition set up subject to commentary from this body, so that's what brings us here today. Ms. Wichman: I have a comment. I think I was one of the Commissioners that wanted the rock and was told that there is no rock. So I appreciate Chucky Boy and probably you or the architect finding this facade rock and finding the rock pohaku facade. Mr. Chock: Called a friend at Punahou School. Ms. Wichman: That's great though and nobody's going to question where the pohaku came from, etcetera, etcetera, you know, and it's not real. So that's ... I am glad that SHPD concurred that we needed something that matched, you know, to go along with the Wilcox Building. Yes, yes, I think this is great. Thank you. Mr. Chaffin: I have a question. Are these real rocks or are these artificial? Mr. Chock: We have the make, you know; how they create it. Chair Guerber: So these are real rocks — November 15, 2018 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 20 of 26 Ms. Wichman: They're not real. Chair Guerber: —right? Mr. Chock: They make it. Chair Guerber: This is made? Ms. Wichman: Yes. Mr. Chaffin: No, artificial rocks. Chair Guerber: Artificial? And so is this? Mr. Chock: Yes, sir. Ms. Wichman: They color it to make it... Mr. Chock: So, in Honolulu, drive by Punahou School, you won't know the difference. Chair Guerber: Because I have seen veneer that's done with cast rock and it's not this... Mr. Chock: This is the latest, and it's called Big Rock Hawaii. They're on the cutting edge. I think they use rock material to make this. Mr. Ida: So this stuff, like weighs the same as a rock? Mr. Chock: Not quite. Mr. Ida: Is it lighter? Mr. Chock: Yes, sir. Mr. Ida: And the normal application is to, like just stick it on sheet rock? Mr. Chock: I think the process is piece by piece. Ms. Summers: That's also the typical process for a true rock veneer, so you would use the same process for real or faux rock veneer. Mr. Ida: This is pretty cool. No excuse to go stealing rocks. Mr. Chock: You know, I can't answer that but we do have... should have it in there, the making of it, how they make it. November 15, 2018 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 21 of 26 Mr. Jung: Yes, I passed out ... I read it but it kind of went over my head because I am not a contractor but it has the whole installation process. There's actual physical cast concrete that's dyed and porous to match an original rock that they used to do the casting. Then what they do is then they attach it to the sheet rock by whatever ways they do it and then they pick pigment colors to match the type of look you want, whether it's like a moss rock, greenish, red dirt, red tintish, or the cleaner blue rock, which is sort of that newer rock. Mr. Ida: And they can put fake moss on? Ms. Arinaga: I have a question. So, did you ... did I hear you say it can be seen only at Punahou? Or how about here on the islands? Mr. Chock: No, this is the project they're working on and so this is actually for Punahou. Ms. Arinaga: Okay. Mr. Chock: But they're doing like ... right now, they just finished about a hundred thousand square feet of it. Ms. Arinaga: Okay, with this. Mr. Chock: And so they ... they're just completing the Culinary Center also, with the same thing. Ms. Arinaga: That's pretty cool. Mr. Ida: What is the cost differential between that and real rocks? Mr. Chock: Well, for one, getting the real rock was the problem and then secondly, it's more affordable this way — much more affordable. Ms. Arinaga: So once you get these rocks, you would have to hire someone to... Mr. Chock: Yes, the contractor that we're working with — Ms. Arinaga: Okay. Mr. Chock: —is the guys that will install this. Ms. Arinaga: Okay. Chair Guerber: So I have a bit of a question here. Where is this rock wall that we're talking about? This section? Mr. Jung: It's the upper right pane. Chair Guerber: Right pane. November 15, 2018 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 22 of 26 Mr. Jung: It's the west elevation. Ms. Arinaga: To the right. Ms. Summers: The page shows it better. Doesn't it? The color. Mr. Jung: The rendering on the bottom just shows what the wing would look like but that's looking from the north east. So on the actual plans and elevations, it's the west elevation on the top right. Chair Guerber: So the west elevation — this is all the rocks we're talking about. This is the rock wall. Mr. Jung: Yes, so... Chair Guerber: The other rocks, these rocks are like the east elevation, we see that every day. Right? Mr. Jung: Right. Ms. Summers: But the pilaster is under the new, right? Aren't those new? Mr. Jung: Plaster? Ms. Summers: The rock columns. Mr. Jung: Yes, those will be new. Ms. Summers: Those are all new too? Mr. Jung: Yes, that was actually requested by SHPD as well. Ms. Summers: So that (when) it turns the corner its all... Mr. Jung: Right. So if you're looking ... if you're standing here looking back, you'll see this wall. Ms. Summers: Right. Chair Guerber: That's ... we'll (inaudible). Mr. Jung: And this section here is the new wing. Chair Guerber: Okay. Any other questions? (Hearing none) Is there a motion? Ms. Arinaga: I move to accept the project. November 15, 2018 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 23 of 26 Ms. Summers: I second the motion. Chair Guerber: We have a motion and a second. Discussion? No Discussion. All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote) Opposed? Hearing none, it passed. Motion carried 6:0. Mr. Hull: Motion passes. Mr. Jung: Thank you, Commissioners. 4. Discussion on the status of the Certified Local Government. Mr. Hull: We have no further updates on the CLG status. We maintain CLG status but we have not been in communication, really, with State Historic Preservation Division, the Architectural Branch... Ms. Wichman: Have they replaced some of their people that left? Mr. Hull: No. Ms. Wichman: And I just heard Kaiwi's leaving also. Mr. Hull: I was not aware of that. Ms. Wichman: Yes. Mr. Hull: Okay. So I am going to imagine the radio silence that we've had with them for the past several months is going to become that much more silent. It all comes down to a staffing issue over there. We're not saying that there's any particular person at fault, it's just they have very little at this point and close to no staff it appears. Ms. Wichman: So the other CLG's, Maui and the Hawaii island, in the same boat... Mr. Hull: Yes. Ms. Wichman: Right? Mr. Hull: Correct, so we have, I'll say a lot of...we've had some discussions with the archeological branch, but as far as the architectural branch, which is the one that generally steers the Certified Local Government status for the County has been fairly silent. I can say and the first application reviewed, you know, put it back on the radar, because it kind of fell by the wayside. I guess with the various things going on, and I think discussions were going on right before the flood, so perhaps that's why they got kind of fell by the wayside. But there was some discussion and Fred (Atkins) kind of reminded me of that, of looking at routing through this commission a proposal to amend the tax code. Because as Fred was pointing out in Honolulu, on Oahu there are tax ... lower tax status for historical properties, commercial and residential. On November 15, 2018 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 24 of 26 Kauai that status is only afforded to the residential properties. And so there was a discussion that I believe, about a year ago, where there was some interest in looking at proposing from this body, a proposed draft ordinance to also apply that tax rate to commercial properties, as well. Chair Guerber: So was there any incentive to make a commercial property historical? Mr. Hull: At the County level, no. And there's other, of course, Federal grants-in-aid which can be provided for those properties that are on the Register, but as far as any County incentive, no. It only exist for residences. So, not that Alex's plate isn't already full, but ... and we'll be looking at where the next administration would want to go, but I think that is a possible package that we can put together should the incoming administration want to pursue that. Without that ... well, without any further ... I have no other further updates on the CLG. Ms. Wichman: So the CLG, that means we're not getting any money either? Or is the parks system... Mr. Hull: For the most part the last conversation I had with the individual processing CLG applications indicated that they weren't ... they can review it, but they're not in any position to manage providing those or allocating those funds; that was about a year, year and a half ago. Quite honestly, some of the rigmarole that surrounds those funds and the various T's that we to cross and the I's that we have to dot, to a certain degree it doesn't make it worth it. Yes, the amount that we have to go through... contract procurement and referring back to them. The timelines, I think I alluded to you folks before — sometimes we don't see that money, because it has to be freed up federally. We see that money like, within two months of having to finalize the project and a lot of these projects take a lot longer than that. And so we did go through ... what was one of those we used the money for recently? We did get CLG monies recently .... I can't recall, but I know it's a lot of heartache for Myles (Hironaka) to go through, and it's only after seeing that we don't get those monies and we, the Planning Department and the County, expend those monies expecting to be reimbursed by the Federal Government. And a lot of times those monies don't get reimbursed until sometimes after the close of the project. It was a nomination of a site that we used CLG monies for ... the Hanapepe Bridge, I believe. We used CLG monies for and quite honestly ... we got an estimate, which we're allowed to do procurement wise on how much it would cost to hire a consultant to nominate the bridge. It was a well -renowned preservationist and consultant that gave us the figure of...I believe it was $4,000. And when we finally secured the award, when we went to procure the services, that very same individual who put the figure out at roughly $4,000 did not put in a bid. And when we kind of had the discussion why wouldn't you do that, his response was, within the year and a half that I gave you that figure, I've been working with the state and county governments, and to have to go through the hoops of, like, the insurance he has to get, and all the various requirements he has to meet, he said I am not going to bid for that. So ultimately, a larger firm bid for it and we know that then they subbed it out to him. So that's some of the issues that we run into when managing the CLG grant funds. Sometimes there a little more headache than what they're worth. So, anyway, that's where it is. NEW BUSINESS November 15, 2018 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 25 of 26 Mr. Hull: Sorry, there's no new business and we have no further agenda items. COMMISSION EDUCATION COMMITTEE KAUA'I HISTORIC RESOURCE INVENTORY UPDATE COMMITTEE HISTORIC PRESERVATION PUBLICITY COMMITTEE HANAPEPE BRIDGE REPLACEMENT PROJECT COMMITTEE SELECTION OF NEXT MEETING DATE AND AGENDA TOPICS (12/20/2018) ADJOURNMENT Chair Guerber: Shall we move to adjourn? Ms. Arinaga: I move to adjourn. Mr. Chaffin: Second. Chair Guerber: All in favor? (Unanimous voice vote) We are adjourned. Motion carried 6:0. Chair Guerber adjourned the meeting at 4:07 p.m. Respectfully Submitted, Sandra M. Muragin Commission Support Clerk O Approved as circulated. O Approved with amendments. See minutes of meeting. November 15, 2018 KHPRC Meeting Minutes Page 26 of 26