HomeMy WebLinkAbout06/17/2015 Council minutes COUNCIL MEETING
JUNE 17, 2015
The Council Meeting of the Council of the County of Kaua`i was called to order
by Council Chair Mel Rapozo at the Council Chambers, 4396 Rice Street, Suite 201,
Lihu`e, Kaua`i, on Wednesday, June 17, 2015 at 9:03 a.m., after which the following
members answered the call of the roll:
Honorable Mason K. Chock
Honorable Gary L. Hooser
Honorable Ross Kagawa
Honorable Arryl Kaneshiro
Honorable KipuKai Kuali`i
Honorable JoAnn A. Yukimura
Honorable Mel Rapozo
SCOTT K. SATO, Deputy County Clerk: Seven (7) present.
Council Chair Rapozo: Next item, please.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA.
Councilmember Kuali`i moved for approval of the agenda as circulated,
seconded by Councilmember Kagawa.
Council Chair Rapozo: Any discussion?
The motion for approval of the agenda as circulated was then put, and
unanimously carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: Next item, please.
MINUTES of the following meetings of the Council:
February 6, 2015 Facilitated Shared Priorities Workshop
May 6, 2015 Council Meeting
May 13, 2015 Public Hearing re: Bill No. 2582, Bill No. 2583, and
Resolution No. 2015-26
Councilmember Kagawa moved to approve the Minutes as circulated, seconded
by Councilmember Kuali`i.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. I want to thank the Council for the
deferral on the February 6th Facilitated Shared Priorities Workshop minutes. I have
read them over, and I want to thank Allison on our staff, for doing such a good job.
As you recall, we changed rooms and we had some trouble with the recording at that
Workshop. I expected a lot of gaps in the meeting, but it was complete and very
helpful. I am going to be voting to approve the minutes. But for the record, I want
to say that there are attachments to the minutes, one of which is the Facilitator's
COUNCIL MEETING 2 JUNE 17, 2015
notes. I want to say that for the record, I do not agree that Section 6 of the
Facilitator's notes are an accurate representation of what we decided, because it does
not make clear that affordable housing, parks, traffic, land transportation, and
energy were among the top eight (8) priorities of the Council. I do not think there is
any Councilmember around this table that would say that affordable housing, parks,
traffic, land transportation, and energy are not among the top eight (8) priorities of
this Council. For the record, I would just like to state that. Thank you, Chair.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much. Any further
discussion?
The motion to approve the Minutes as circulated was then put, and
unanimously carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: Next item, please.
CONSENT CALENDAR:
C 2015-170 Communication (05/25/2015) from the County Engineer,
transmitting for Council consideration, a Resolution Establishing a Maximum Speed
Limit of Thirty Miles Per Hour (30 MPH) and Forty Miles Per Hour (40 MPH) Along
Ala Kalanikaumaka, Koloa District, County of Kaua`i, State of Hawai`i.
C 2015-171 Communication (05/27/2015) from the Director of Finance,
transmitting for Council information, the Period 10 Financial Reports — Detailed
Budget Report, Statement of Revenues (Estimated and Actual), Statement of
Expenditures and Encumbrances, and Revenue Report as of April 30, 2015, pursuant
to Section 21 of Ordinance No. B-2014-781, relating to the Operating Budget of the
County of Kaua`i for the Fiscal Year 2014-2015.
C 2015-172 Communication (05/28/2015) from the Director of Finance,
transmitting for Council information, the following reports:
(1) County of Kaua`i Bond Summary of General Long-Term Debt Amount
Outstanding as of July 1, 2014;
(2) County of Kaua`i Bond Supplemental Summary of General Long-Term
Debt Amount Outstanding as of June 30, 2015; and Excluded County of
Kaua`i Bond Supplemental Summary of Long-Term Debt Amount
Outstanding as of June 30, 2015: CFD No. 2008-1 (Kukui`ula
Development Project) Special Tax Bonds, Series 2012, sold
April 25, 2012.
C 2015-173 Communication (06/04/2015) from Councilmember Kaneshiro,
providing written disclosure of a possible conflict of interest and recusal, with regard
to C 2015-166, which is the Right-of-Entry Agreement and Memorandum of
Understanding between the County of Kaua`i and Grove Farm Company, Inc., as he
is employed with Grove Farm Company, Inc.
COUNCIL MEETING 3 JUNE 17, 2015
C 2015-174 Communication (06/09/2015) from the Mayor, transmitting for
Council consideration and confirmation, the following Mayoral appointees to the
various Boards and Commissions for the County of Kaua`i:
1. Charter Review Commission
• Merrilee M. Ako — Term ending 12/31/2017
2. Fire Commission
• Michael T. Martinez — Term ending 12/31/2016
C 2015-175 Communication (06/09/2015) from Council Vice Chair,
transmitting for Council consideration, a proposal to amend the Kaua`i County Code
1987, as amended, by repealing Article 25 of Chapter 22, entitled "Barking Dogs."
Mr. Sato: We do have one (1) person signed up to speak
on C 2015-170.
Council Chair Rapozo: Can I entertain a motion to receive items
C 2015-171, C 2015-172, C 2015-173, C 2015-174, and C 2015-175?
Councilmember Chock moved to receive C 2015-171, C 2015-172, C 2015-173,
C 2015-174, and C 2015-175 for the record, seconded by Councilmember
Kuali`i.
Council Chair Rapozo: Any discussion?
The motion to receive C 2015-171, C 2015-172, C 2015-173, C 2015-174, and
C 2015-175 for the record was then put, and unanimously carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: Mr. Clerk, can we have item C 2015-170 please?
Councilmember Kagawa moved to remove C 2015-170 off of the Consent
Calendar, seconded by Councilmember Kuali`i, and unanimously carried.
COMMUNICATIONS:
C 2015-170 Communication (05/25/2015) from the County Engineer,
transmitting for Council consideration, a Resolution Establishing a Maximum Speed
Limit of Thirty Miles Per Hour (30 MPH) and Forty Miles Per Hour (40 MPH) Along
Ala Kalanikaumaka, Koloa District, County of Kaua`i, State of Hawai`i:
Councilmember Kagawa moved to receive C 2015-170 for the record, seconded by
Councilmember Kuali`i.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much. We have a registered
speaker?
Mr. Sato: Yes. Our first registered speaker is Meredith
Fisher.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
COUNCIL MEETING 4 JUNE 17, 2015
Council Chair Rapozo: Ms. Fisher, could you come up please? Good
morning. If you could just state your name for our captioner.
MEREDITH FISHER: Meredith Titus Fisher.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay.
Ms. Fisher: I would like to have the Ala Kalanikaumaka
speed limit raised. It is the bypass that is in between the old Koloa Road and the
roundabout in Po`ipu. It is twenty-five miles per hour (25 MPH) right now, and it is
really hard to drive that slowly on that road. It is a very wide open road. It is not
residential. It is definitely more country. There are no roadways that come out of
there except for the Kukui`ula driveway. It has a crosswalk there that is very
prominent and I think it even has a flashing light when people want to cross it. A lot
of people like to walk there and there is a great sidewalk, but it is spaced away from
the road. You can see everything driving up and down it, and it just does not seem
reasonable to have it 25 MPH. I would like to have it raised, if possible. I actually
use that road ten (10) times a week, minimum, and I find that when I am following
cars too, they are not always following the speed limit either.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Ms. Fisher: You will look down and you go, "Oh, my gosh.
I am going thirty-five miles per hour (35 MPH)." If anyone has driven that road, they
might agree with me.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Any questions? Councilmember
Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you very much, Meredith, for coming
to speak. The Resolution shows that the County Engineer has recommended higher
speed limits, thirty miles per hour (30 MPH) for one (1) section and then forty miles
per hour (40 MPH) for the other. This Resolution is something you support then?
Ms. Fisher: Absolutely.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
Ms. Fisher: I think that is a very reasonable speed limit
for that area. Also, just to let you know, there are no driveways. There are no houses
with driveways along that whole road that would be in danger of pulling out into
traffic and having cars and things hit them. It is just a really rural road. So, yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Alright. Thank you very much.
Ms. Fisher: Alright. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Anybody else wishing to testify?
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: This Resolution will come up later. I only
have one (1) question staff, if you could double-check. I know that road was a
COUNCIL MEETING 5 JUNE 17, 2015
condition for the Kukui`ula development, and I want to make sure it does not conflict
with any condition imposed back then. Some of those conditions were very specific.
I am not sure. So, if we can have someone check with Planning or Public Works to
make sure that this does not conflict with the zoning amendment that we had passed
years ago. Otherwise, I am in support of this. Thank you.
The motion to receive C 2015-170 for the record was then put, and unanimously
carried (Pursuant to Rule No. 5(b) of the Rules of the Council of the County of
Kauai, Councilmember Kagawa was noted as silent (not present), but shall be
recorded as an affirmative for the motion).
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Thank you. Next item,
please.
C 2015-176 Communication (05/13/2015) from the Mayor, requesting agenda
time for representatives from Smith Dawson & Andrews, Inc., to provide the Council
with a recap of the services and activities provided to the County during the past year
as part of their professional services contract as the County's Washington, D.C.
consultants.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much. Can I get a motion to
receive, please?
Councilmember Chock moved to receive C 2015-176 for the record, seconded
by Councilmember Kuali`i.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Council Chair Rapozo: Welcome to Kauai. Nobody wants to sit in
that middle seat? Maybe Cyndi. You can start by introducing yourselves for our
captioner, who is somewhere on the mainland, then we can begin with your report,
and then we will open it up for questions. I would ask Councilmembers to please hold
off on questions until we are done with the presentation.
JIM SMITH, President and Co-Founder of Smith Dawson & Andrews, Inc.:
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good morning everybody. Aloha. I am Jim Smith,
President and Co-Founder of the firm Smith Dawson &Andrews in Washington, D.C.
MARY CRONIN, Managing Director, Smith Dawson & Andrews, Inc.: I
am Mary Cronin. I am Smith Dawson & Andrews, Inc.'s Managing Director, also in
Washington, D.C.
CYNDI AYONON, Mayor's Administrative Aide: Good morning
everyone. I am Cyndi Ayonon with the Mayor's Office. I assist our D.C. Consultants
in coordinating their activities with the County of Kauai.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much. Why do you not start
with your overview or your report?
Mr. Smith: Again, thank you for the time this morning on
your agenda. As I said, I am Jim Smith, President of Smith Dawson &Andrews, Inc.
It is a pleasure to be here today to give you an overview summary of our activities
COUNCIL MEETING 6 JUNE 17, 2015
over the year. I think you did receive a written report via E-mail. Hopefully you have
had time to review that so we will not have to go over it in its entirety. We did just
want to highlight some of the major activities and projects that we have been engaged
with, and then would open it up to any questions that you might have. Mary is going
to summarize some of those activities.
Ms. Cronin: Sure. I am not going to go into the level of
detail that we have provided in this report of activities. Essentially, over the last
year since our report is on those activities, we continue to provide weekly legislative
updates. Perhaps you have been receiving those updates. Those include a status of
legislation, a listing of all of the hearings that are happening on the hill that week or
within that two (2) week timeframe, we also provide a listing of grant opportunities,
which I also route regularly to the Department Heads within the County, and in
addition whether or not there are any special items of interest, we also provide
analysis and summaries of the impacts on the County and make sure that people are
informed so that we can take any concerns to the table when necessary..
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present.)
Ms. Cronin: We continue to monitor issues of importance
to the County. We, of course, filed several appropriations-related requests this year
for programmatic funding levels for various programs important to the County. That
was with all of the members of the Hawai`i Congressional Delegation. We continue
to work hard to build relationships on behalf of the County with various Federal
agencies and of course, with members of the Hawai`i Congressional Delegation, and
other key Committee members both in the House and Senate, and their staffs. We,
of course, have continually provided a lot of assistance when it comes to grants, and
have worked hard to acquire or to secure letters of support on behalf of the County
grant applications from the entire Congressional Delegation. We have provided a lot
of support in just building capacity for grant opportunities, and working with the
program administrators within the various Federal agencies to ensure that our grant
proposals are as competitive as possible. Of course, when the Mayor made a couple
of trips over the last year to Washington for the Annual Conference of Mayors and
also for the now Second Annual Taste of Hawai`i, Hawai`i on the Hill, Hawaii Small
Business Summit, we provided support for the Mayor and facilitated several meetings
not just with the Hawai`i Delegation, but also with the Department of Housing and
Urban Development, the Department of Transportation, U.S. Fish and Wildlife
Service, and the U.S. Small Business Administration. Our purpose there is to go
build relationships with those agencies, with the staff, and also learn about the
funding opportunities or unique opportunities mechanisms that we could be taking
advantage of to be able to finance County projects. So, that is really just a brief
overview of most of the activities of the past year.
As you know, we are heavily focused on securing Federal grant funding for the
Departments. I guess after many meetings discussing our key priorities, we decided
to focus on a TIGER grant, which is the Transportation Investment Generating
Economic Recovery, which as you know, you have been briefed on that proposal. That
was really a model for how best to pursue Federal grants. We were really impressed
with the way that County was able to put together a team and to begin working on
this project over a year ago. When we were here last June, that was when we started
the process, getting everybody to the table and deciding, okay, what is the best
proposal for a TIGER project, what would be most competitive, what will align with
the appropriate criteria for the most recent TIGER programs, and what we need to
do, and when do we need to do it by in order to be prepared for the next round of
COUNCIL MEETING 7 JUNE 17, 2015
TIGER. We started that process in June. Then in August, we actually began hosting
some meetings with the Department of Transportation in Washington and the
County, and starting to just lay the groundwork for that proposal. That process
continued. In the fall when we finally had a Fiscal Year 2015 Federal budget, we
knew there was going to be five hundred million dollars ($500,000,000) for the TIGER
program for a 7th round. We knew that based on what we had learned in our
experiences meeting with the Department of Transportation, that the focus would be
on what they call "ladders of opportunity" so, making connections for low-income,
elderly, and disadvantaged communities and transforming those communities so that
they will have more opportunities and access to health care services, transportation,
jobs, and all of those things.
We started that teamwork and put together the proposal, and continued to
meet with the Department of Transportation. We met with the Deputy Secretary just
last week, Victor Mendez. We met with the Federal Highway
Administration (FHWA) Administrator, Greg Nadeau, in January, August,
December, February, and April, and then also I think in May. We had meetings in
person and over the phone. We conducted conference calls with the County staff with
the Department of Transportation TIGER leads, both Robert Mariner and John
Augustine. We really doubled-down on our effort to communicate with them and
make sure that we were addressing all of the concerns and red-flags, and making sure
all of the environmental reviews and all of the components of these projects were in
place. We put together a menu list of components for the grant proposal per their
recommendations. We really did everything that we possibly could to be as
competitive as possible. We feel that there is not much more we can do at this point.
We have to wait. But we worked closely with the Congressional Delegation
throughout the process, briefing them, and providing them regular updates of what
our activities were in terms of trying to make the proposal most competitive. They of
course are providing a Congressional Delegation letter of support for this project as
well as two (2) other projects submitted from Hawai`i. One is a Harvard project on
O`ahu and the other one is bus purchases for Honolulu. There are three (3) TIGER
projects. Those two (2) are in a different pot of funding. This particular project, as
you know, is in the rural pot of funding. They are not necessarily competing for the
same funds, although the competition will definitely be very tough.
Mr. Smith: I would just augment what Mary said with
regard to this TIGER application. Really, I would like to commend the County staff
for doing an excellent job in putting together that application. If any of you have ever
reviewed the TIGER program, you know that it is daunting to put these applications
together. It is very challenging. You have to be very specific, very concise, and you
have to address the criteria that is laid out in the funding availability announcement.
It cannot be any more than thirty (30) pages. That might seem like a lot, but for a
project of this magnitude and all of the information that is called for, it is a real
challenge to get in under thirty (30) pages. But the County staff did. I think they did
an excellent job. I think they submitted a very competitive project. I have reviewed
a lot of TIGER applications in the past, both successful and non-successful ones. I
think that this one stacks up as a very good and competitive application. That being
said, it is one of the most competitive Federal programs out there. So, there is no
guarantee that we are going to be successful, but I think we can be very proud of the
effort that the County put forward. Quite honestly, if you look at the TIGER program,
many of the projects that have been funded in the previous six (6) years did not get it
the first time, but they got it the second year or third year. We may not get it this
year. It does not mean we cannot go back next year or we may not even get the whole
COUNCIL MEETING 8 JUNE 17, 2015
project this year, but get components of it. It was a great effort. I commend the
County and we are keeping our fingers crossed.
Ms. Cronin: After we found that there was a lot of success
in that model, creating the team, and doing all the things that we have to do to be
competitive, we have narrowed some focus on some particular grants for some key
County projects that we feel best align. This week, while we have been here meeting
with the Department Heads within the County, we have provided them a booklet of
all of those grant opportunities that we think we should focus on. We have done that
in the past. We have cast a really wide net. We have looked at a lot of different
grants. Rather than presenting one hundred (100) or two hundred (200) grant
opportunities, we have narrowed down to about fifty (50). Each grant opportunity is
aligned with a particular project. So, Department Heads can take a look at those and
they can make some determinations to determine how viable or how feasible it might
be to pursue some of those, again, in a team-like format. They will be working on
that probably in next couple of months. Most of those grants do not come out until
January through April timeframe. They will have some time now to begin putting
the timeframe together in order to expect those grants. That is it.
Mr. Smith: Any questions?
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much. Councilmember
Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you for being here today. Based on
your report, I am very pleased with the service that you have provided to the County.
I want to thank you for that. Thank you, Cyndi, for the coordination. The last thing
you mentioned was narrowing the projects or the grant focus, and I think that is a
great idea. Is that something that the Council could get, that report that you gave to
the Administration?
Ms. Cronin: Absolutely.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Then in your report you mentioned
working with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, and I wondered if the problem that
we have been experiencing on the North Shore between the taro farmers and the U.S.
Fish and Wildlife Service has been addressed in those meetings?
Ms. Cronin: The meetings that we have had with U.S. Fish
and Wildlife Service have really been to be briefed, to receive updates, and just have
a conversation about where they are in the process of putting together the Kaua`i
Habitat Conservation Plan (HCP) and what to expect...
Councilmember Yukimura: It is the Conservation Plan, CP?
Ms. Cronin: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
Ms. Cronin: We have not talked with them about the taro
crop issues.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. Okay.
COUNCIL MEETING 9 JUNE 17, 2015
Ms. Cronin: That is something that would be a totally
separate issue and I believe separate staff who we then have been speaking with.
Councilmember Yukimura: That would be. I think it is primarily with the
Region 10 in Seattle. The problem briefly, I think it is the largest taro production
area in the State, in Hanalei Valley and it is the U.S. Fish and Wildlife refuge. So, it
is both a refuge and a lo`i or taro, farming goes on there. It produces the most taro, I
think, in State. The farmers have been experiencing severe deprivation where the
birds are eating the plants to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars. Really
impacting them. The farmers are more than willing to work with the U.S. Fish and
Wildlife Service with measures that will not hurt the wildlife. But the U.S. Fish and
Wildlife Service has been quite rigid in its policies and has not been forthcoming with
data that would support their policies. So, this has been a subject before the State
Legislature and is of major economic development agriculture issue. So, some help
with communication would be really helpful to the farmers in that area.
Ms. Cronin: Okay. I think that is something we could
work on with the refuge staff, which I think are actually based in the Portland office.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes.
Ms. Cronin: Also, the ecological field staff, who I believe
are base here in Honolulu. So, perhaps we could arrange to have a conference call
with them and discuss our options.
Councilmember Yukimura: That would be very helpful because we have
to find a solution if we want both this cultural crop and the very important food source
to continue with the idea that we would not harm the wildlife either, that we could
actually find a very good way of co-existence.
Ms. Cronin: Okay.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Hang on. Councilmember
Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: Follow-up question regarding U.S. Fish and
Wildlife Service. Have you done any work regarding the Newell Shearwater problem
and our football lights, because I really worked with Senator Schatz and Dale Hahn
from the Honolulu office? I think the message to me was that they see it is pretty
realistic that they could possibly add one (1) or two (2) more night games on a trial
basis. I do not know if you folks have spent any time on that issue or if that is not in
your scope?
Mr. Smith: Well, we have had conversations with U.S.
Fish and Wildlife Service. We have had meetings with them. We met with them
recently when the Mayor was in Washington. It has been more of a monitoring
engagement that we have had with them and keeping track of where they are with
the process. There has been discussion. Of course, they are well-aware of the football
lights, the issue, and the importance of that to the community. But Mary, you were
with the Mayor last week. Maybe you would report on that meeting.
Ms. Cronin: Right. The Mayor has continually brought
this issue up with the congressional staff, and of course, the County Attorneys are in
constant communication with the congressional staff on these issues and also have
COUNCIL MEETING 10 JUNE 17, 2015
been in constant communication as you know, with Division of Forestry and
Wildlife (DOFAW), the Department of Land and Natural Resources (DLNR), and U.S.
Fish and Wildlife Service. So, that is ongoing. When the Mayor was in Washington,
for example, last week, we had a meeting with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.
The update that they gave us was that the plan is currently being drafted, and that
there is no timeline right now. We do not know when to anticipate that plan being
complete. But they have received a number of updates from the County Attorneys on
just suggestions and things that they could consider when drafting the plan. They
have really presented them with a lot of options. We are waiting to see whether or
not any of those suggestions will be included in this plan that they are drafting. As
far as the issue of more football games, I think what the outcome or what the answer
is from all has been that there are no exceptions to the Endangered Species Act.
There are no waivers possible. In the event that you would like to host more football
games, "Friday Night Lights," then that is probably a policy decision that you will
have to make as a board, and that there will be at some point, a cost associated with
that.
Councilmember Kagawa: Can I interject? So, no matter if the lights are
killing just one (1) or two (1) and the rats and cats are killing hundreds and
thousands, the Federal government refuses to acknowledge that they are focusing on
the wrong problem? Is that how it works? U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, they do
not care whether hundreds and thousands are being eaten by feral cats and rats,
which they do not nothing about. They used to drop bait and things with DLNR. But
they are just going to worry about one (1) or two (2) that happens to maybe die from
lights? Is that how it really works?
Mr. Smith: Well, I do not think it is quite that simple. I
should say we are not attorneys and some of these issues...
Councilmember Kagawa: That is why the problem is that we live here.
We know what happens.
Ms. Cronin: Right.
Mr. Smith: Right.
Councilmember Kagawa: In Washington, they do not know what
happens here.
Mr. Smith: I understand.
Councilmember Kagawa: For them to make the call here and make such
drastic consequences on our public, and for us to say, "For five (5) years, we are doing
all we can, but too bad. No games unless you have to pay ten thousand
dollars ($10,000) a bird." Is that how it works? I mean, I am serious.
Mr. Smith: Well, they do look at the bird as "takings" and
there is a fine or a fee associated with takings.
Councilmember Kagawa: If the rats and cats eat one (1) bird, nobody
pays for that take. The Federal government or the State DLNR does not pay for that
dead bird?
Mr. Smith: No.
COUNCIL MEETING 11 JUNE 17, 2015
Ms. Cronin: Well, we have to wait and see to see what this
plan is going to say and what they are going to recommend, whether they recommend
a replacement process or whether they provide some sort of mitigation.
Councilmember Kagawa: I understand. Do you see where I am coming
from though?
Ms. Cronin: Yes.
Councilmember Kagawa: To me, to focus on one (1) or two (2) from the
lights and just ignore hundreds and thousands, I mean, you cannot make sense of
that one to me. Thank you, Chair.
Council Chair Rapozo: These are the wrong targets for that. Let me
just share what I just found out. I too, like Councilmember Kagawa, have been
following this and I met with our Congressional Delegation in March in D.C. I begged
them to at least fight for us and get us a three (3) hour a week or a two (2) hour a
week waiver. Granted there is no waivers. It is a big issue with National Association
of Counties (NACo).
Ms. Cronin: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: The Endangered Species Act is causing
numerous problems throughout the Country. This is where I think we need to focus,
the Habitat Conservation Plan, that is the issue. We, the Council, funded that plan
many years ago, and until today, it has not been completed.
Mr. Smith: Right.
Council Chair Rapozo: The problem, as I just found out, is that the
whole focus for the County anyway was the light, the damages to these birds from
the lights. Recently, we found out that that may not be necessarily true. That, in
fact, the power lines from Kaua`i Island Utility Cooperative (KIUC) are killing the
birds, and that has been documented.
Ms. Cronin: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: That has been proven. Now the emphasis is
hey, wait a minute now. Maybe it is not so much the lights. Maybe we have to start
turning our attention to the power lines. I guess for me, at some point, we have got
to separate ourselves, the County, from this massive Habitat Conservation Plan,
which links us in with KIUC, all of the hotels, and everybody else, and say, "Let us
focus on the County's responsibility" and get a Habitat Conservation Plan for the
County so we can get our takings permit so we can continue what we have been doing.
But as long as we are tied in with KIUC and everybody else, we are basically at their
whim and we have got to wait until this plan is complete so we can get a little license
that says, "Okay, your activity will affect x amount of birds and here is your permit."
I do not know what we can do, and I am hoping to have some dialogue with the
State and the Administration, that hey, we have got to sever ourselves so the County
of Kaua`i can have a Habitat Conservation Plan for the impacts that we cause to these
birds. But I guess what I am troubled is that even though we have now acknowledged
that maybe the lights are not causing the major damage or the major killing of the
birds, I do not see, and I see Councilmember Kagawa's frustration. It is even though
COUNCIL MEETING 12 JUNE 17, 2015
we know that, that is not changing the minds of the people that their minds needs to
be changed. That is not you two (2). So, please, do not take this as a criticism because
I appreciate your help.
Mr. Smith: No.
Council Chair Rapozo: But at some point, the County has to say, "Do
you know what? It is a policy decision." It is not our policy here because we do not
have that authority to tell the Administration "leave the lights on." But the fact of
the matter is that it is a policy decision by the Administration. If the Administration
felt that it was important, we could run the lights and take the risk of having to pay
a fine. The reality is how many birds really have fallen during the night games? Last
year, I believe last season, they did one. They had all the people from the Federal
government here monitoring, getting paid overtime to monitor, and there were no
incidents. The lights are not causing it. That is what he is trying to say. The lights
are not causing the problems that they have painted the picture. I guess that is my
request. I know you work for us. So, you do not tell us what to do.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Council Chair Rapozo: We ask you to help us in certain things. I am
asking that in the next discussion, if you could try to cover those bases or those
concern because they are real. I do not know what KIUC is going to do with the lines
up at the power line. They are going to have to move them. They are. There is no
exception. They are going to have to relocate those lines up at the power line trail at
a substantial cost, millions and millions and millions of dollars. Who is going to pay
for that? Everybody who turns on a light switch. It is a bigger issue. Believe me,
Friday Night Lights is critical. But as long as we are tied in with the entire HCP for
the island, we will never get a takings permit. That is how I feel. So, maybe it is
time to have that discussion that we separate ourselves out and work on the HCP for
the County of Kaua`i to move forward. Those are just my thoughts. I do want to say
that I have seen both of you in D.C. working very hard for us and I appreciate that.
Mr. Smith: Thank you.
Ms. Cronin: Our pleasure.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Just a quick clarification question because
you just kept using the word "plan." But on this bullet it has the Kaua`i HCP, which
is the Habitat Conservation Plan, and then it also has the Habitat Mitigation Plan.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present.)
Ms. Cronin: It is all one in the same.
Councilmember Kuali`i: It is all one in the same?
Ms. Cronin: Yes.
Councilmember Kuali`i: There is no timeline right now, I think is what
you said.
COUNCIL MEETING 13 JUNE 17, 2015
Ms. Cronin: No.
Councilmember Kuali`i: We have been working on it for how long?
Ms. Cronin: Well, several years.
Councilmember Kuali`i: And there is no end in sight?
Council Chair Rapozo: No.
Ms. Cronin: Well, we do not have a deadline. We do not
have a date-certain, yes. But I will add, Mr. Chairman, last week, when we met with
the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, they did say that they are working on splitting out
the takes between light attraction and power lines. That is something new that they
brought up.
Council Chair Rapozo: That makes me happy because that is what
needs to be done.
Ms. Cronin: Yes, and they are talking with KIUC.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Perfect. That is a great start because
that is what we need to do because the light issue is completely different from what
the power lines are doing and we should not be put in the same basket and our people
should not be suffering because of that. Anyway, thank you very much for that
clarification and I appreciate your work. Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you. Just one (1) request. Thank you
for all of the work that you folks do. Mary, you talked about you will get word of what
grants are available in January/February.
Ms. Cronin: Yes.
Councilmember Chock: I was just wondering if with you and Anne, if
we could get the recommendations for the projects that we have.
Ms. Cronin: Sure.
Councilmember Chock: I do not need the long version, just...
Ms. Cronin: Just the chart?
Councilmember Chock: Yes, just a chart of which ones we are moving
towards.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Ms. Cronin: Sure.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kaneshiro.
COUNCIL MEETING 14 JUNE 17, 2015
Councilmember Kaneshiro: I have just a follow-up to Councilmember
Chock's question. I was just wondering, how much money are we talking about as
far as the fifty (50) grants? It does not have to be exact, just an estimate.
Ms. Cronin: Oh, they are all different. Some grants are
small as ten thousand dollars ($10,000) or twenty-five thousand dollars ($25,000),
and relatively speaking, I mean, that may not be small. That may be a lot and there
may not be a match required for something like that. Then there are some grants
that are in the millions.
Mr. Smith: Then the TIGER project that was submitted
was a request for fifteen million dollars ($15,000,000). So, the range is wide. It just
depends on the agency, the program, and the project.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: And you answered my second question about
how much money we are expecting from the TIGER grant.
Mr. Smith: Well, the application or the request, was for
fifteen million dollars ($15,000,000). We will see what we get.
Ms. Cronin: It is broken down into a menu.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: I will hold you to it. What did you say?
Ms. Cronin: It is broken down into a menu of options. So,
each component has its own price. But they all add up to a fifteen million
dollar ($15,000,000) request.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: Okay. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. Just a follow-up comment about the
birds and lights issue. It appears based on what the Chair is saying, that it is a data
question and there are some parallels to the situation in Hanalei Valley. U.S. Fish
and Wildlife Service needs to be able to back up their policies with data because some
of their policies have such extreme impacts on us. If they have actual data, that is
one thing. But if they do not, and they need to be able to support their policies with
data. I have questions on page 4 in your report. You mentioned Climate Action
Champion's Designation.
Ms. Cronin: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: And also your Environmental Protection
Agency (EPA) Smart Growth Technical grants. I wondered if you could explain those
two (2) to us.
Ms. Cronin: The County submitted a designation
application to the U.S. Department of Energy for Climate Action Champions. It is
really just to recognize the County for all of the work that they have done in terms of
addressing climate challenges. There were a number of projects and activities
reported in this. I believe it was only a four (4) page application. It was very, very
brief. The County was not awarded the Climate Action Champion's Designation. The
benefit of receiving a designation like that is really for purposes of getting some
COUNCIL MEETING 15 JUNE 17, 2015
preferential treatment towards grant opportunities within the Department of
Energy, but also within the Department of Environmental Protection Agency and
other energy-related agencies. We are seeing a lot more designation opportunities in
addition to grants these days. Those people that are receiving these designations are
receiving a little bit of prestige that comes along with it and then preference when it
comes to grants. The EPA's smart growth toolkit technical assistance piece, that
proposal was for, I believe, for bike-share planning. It was not awarded to us per se,
but what happened was it struck up an interesting conversation and there is some
technical assistance planning for bike-share happening throughout Hawai`i. So what
they told the County is that they will work with the County on providing them with
technical assistance on bike-share planning as part of this larger opportunity. It was
very well-received when that application was submitted. It started to build a
relationship and they realized that Kaua`i needs this as well. So, that was really the
benefit to that application.
Councilmember Yukimura: Excellent. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Any other questions? Go ahead.
Councilmember Yukimura: Transit Tax Benefit Extender Bill, can you
explain that?
Mr. Smith: That is a tax fringe benefit that is provided to
employees when employers subsidize their transit passes. It has been on the books
for several years and the point is to provide parity with subsidized parking.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes.
Mr. Smith: Subsidized parking is eligible up to two
hundred fifty dollars ($250) a month and tax credits for subsidized parking. The
transit benefit had always just been one hundred twenty-five dollars ($125), but
under American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA), the stimulus recovery act
that President Obama passed in 2009, they increased the transit subsidy to be equal
to parking. But it was only for three (3) years and then it expired. Now it has been
a part of what they call the "tax extenders package," which includes a whole slew of
Federal tax breaks for everything for research and development for corporations to
this transit fringe benefit. It was extended for one (1)year and expired December 31st.
Currently, it is at one hundred thirty dollars ($130) and parking is at two hundred
fifty dollars ($250). The proposal and what we have always advocated for is to extend
that at least temporarily, but more importantly, to make it permanent so that there
is no disparity between parking and transit. We do not want to encourage people to
drive cars at the expense of taking buses.
Councilmember Yukimura: This goes to the employer?
Mr. Smith: It is a tax-free benefit to the employee.
Councilmember Yukimura: It is like a flexi spending benefit?
Ms. Cronin: Yes.
Mr. Smith: Yes. It is taken off the top of your payroll and
it is tax-free.
COUNCIL MEETING 16 JUNE 17, 2015
Councilmember Yukimura: So, you can use pre-tax money to pay for your
transit?
Mr. Smith: Right.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
Ms. Cronin: And then the pass is not taxed either. If you
were to buy a pass off the street, you would pay a tax on that. But if you have a pass
with your employer or through this program, then you would not pay the tax on that.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present.)
Mr. Smith: It is a pre-tax benefit, essentially.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes.
Mr. Smith: So, it is two hundred fifty dollars ($250)
tax-free that goes to purchase a transit pass.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay, and it is in effect up to one hundred
thirty-five dollars ($135) for transit?
Mr. Smith: One hundred thirty dollars ($130), right.
Councilmember Yukimura: One hundred thirty-five dollars ($135) a
month?
Mr. Smith: A month, right. We can get you more detail.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. Thank you, because it is something, I
think, employers would want to know. There are some employers who will
purchase...no, I do not think we have that. But in some jurisdictions, they allow for
bulk purchase of passes. For example, I know that Wilcox Memorial Hospital, I
believe, purchases bus passes for their employees.
Mr. Smith: I am sure they are taking advantage of the
benefits.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. So, the more employers who know that,
that would be encouragement for them to do that.
Mr. Smith: Right.
Ms. Cronin: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Not to mention not having to provide parking
for their employees.
Mr. Smith: Exactly.
Ms. Cronin: Yes.
COUNCIL MEETING 17 JUNE 17, 2015
Mr. Smith: As you can imagine, and a lot of the larger
cities around the Country, it is immensely popular. In Washington, D.C., the Federal
government provides the transit tax benefit to all Federal employees. It is a huge
incentive for employees to take transit as opposed to driving.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Any other questions?
Councilmember Yukimura: I have one (1) more request.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Go ahead.
Councilmember Yukimura: This goes to Cyndi. Could we get a copy of the
Climate Action Champion's application? Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. I just have one (1) question on the
municipal bond issue. Did we participate in that at all?
Ms. Ayonon: Yes.
Mr. Smith: Well, we have lent our voice with NACo in
supporting the continuation of tax-free municipal bond financing.
Ms. Cronin: And we have done letters of support to the
Congressional Delegation asking them to maintain the tax-exempt nature of
municipal bonds.
(Councilmember Chock was noted as not present.)
Council Chair Rapozo: I am assuming that we got support from our
Hawai`i Congressional Delegation.
Ms. Cronin: Absolutely. Yes.
Mr. Smith: Unanimous.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Any other questions? If not,
thank you very much. I just want to say, I mean, I think our budget line item says
"D.C. Lobbyists." Lobbyists sometimes has a negative perception from the general
public, but you are more of our advocates. That is kind of the way I look at you folks,
as advocates, because you folks work so hard to try to work on our behalf. It is
difficult, we being all the way over here and D.C. is a busy place. So, we appreciate
you being our eyes and ears. Thank you so much.
Mr. Smith: Thank you. We appreciate that.
Ms. Cronin: Our pleasure.
Council Chair Rapozo: The TIGER grant, we just approved that
TIGER grant here on the Council, the application, not long ago. I believe that is the
first application Kaua`i has ever sent in for TIGER. It is used a lot throughout the
Country. But it is our first attempt. I just want to put things in perspective. The
technical support that we got from your firm in itself, was well-worth the cost that
COUNCIL MEETING 18 JUNE 17, 2015
we pay for the entire year of services' from your firm. I am not saying that so you
bump your price because we appreciate your services. Just putting it in perspective,
when you look at all of the time that you spend on the County of Kaua`i, I just want
the public to know it is money well-spent. I remember years ago, there was a
question. I remember years ago, it was left out of the budget in trying to cut costs. I
believe the Council encouraged and got the Mayor's support to put it back in, and
hence, you folks are here today. I want to say thank you for your service and for the
public to really appreciate it. There is no way we could do this without some help in
D.C. We appreciate you keeping your rates down and the people of Kaua`i appreciate
that because it is a vital service that really, there is no way we could have completed
the TIGER grant unless we had hired a consultant to help us with the application,
which would have cost us a lot of money.
Mr. Smith: We appreciate your comments. Also, thank
you for the opportunity to work with the County. We consider it an honor and a
pleasure. I should say that we do not consider ourselves as lobbyists. We consider
ourselves an extension of County staff. We are here to support the Administration,
to support the County Council, and to provide the resources that are important being
so far away, to be able to compete with the program like TIGER. Again, thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much.
Ms. Cronin: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: You can go ahead. We are going to take some
public testimony. Is there anyone in the audience wishing to testify? Mr. Bernabe.
MATT BERNABE: Matt Bernabe, for the record. I just
wanted to weigh in. I had one (1) question, but I will weigh-in on another issue. The
football light issue is that nobody is talking, even in this conversation, how much of
a problem the plastic in the ocean is with the reproductive system. Their shells are
thin, their bellies are full, and they are dying because they are starving. They do not
have any place to put the food. I wanted to add that in because with you folks were
talking about it. But the real reason I wanted to speak right now on this issue is
everybody likes grants. I am not going to dog the TIGER grant.
(Councilmember Chock was noted as present.)
Mr. Bernabe: I do not know anything about it. But from my
short experience in life, there is easy acceptance criteria when you get these grants
and penalties if you do not live up to them. I really agree that yes, we need these
people out there. But when we accept grants, it is like Homeland Security money.
The police force therefore have to do what the Federal standards is once they take
that kind of money. Sometimes to me, I would rather look at financial solutions right
here, like investing in the farming idea of export, real agriculture, versus always
looking for grants. I am not saying this as "oh, that is a bad thing." I am just saying
as a skeptic. What are the unknown stipulations or the known stipulations? I am
sure that they know some. But sometimes there are unknown kinds. Like I said,
what happens if we do not live up to the criteria of accepting some of these funds?
Obviously, I do not know the ins-and-outs of each one, but I am always going to have
a little bit of skepticism when we are just looking for grant money. Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING 19 JUNE 17, 2015
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you, Matt. Just for your information
and public, all of the applications for grants have to come here. It is at a public
meeting just like this.
Mr. Bernabe: Perfect.
Council Chair Rapozo: If you are concerned and interested, you can
get a copy of the grant application and review it. We do, and that is a concern.
Sometimes we chase money. In the TIGER grant, for example, we have a project that
we want to do. We are basically asking the Federal government to consider funding
it, unlike the Federal government saying, "Hey, we have this money for you to do
this." We are saying, "Hey, we have a project that we want to do. We want to use
TIGER money" and we are hoping that the Federal government says, "It fits within
the criteria."
Mr. Bernabe: Thank you. I trust you folks.
Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else in the audience wishing to
testify?
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Further discussion. Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you, Mr. Chair. First of all, I want to
commend the consultants or lobbyists for the job that they have done. I thank them.
My frustration on the Friday night football games being taken away, I think we are
going on our fifth year. At a given time, we can have up to six thousand (6,000) people
or more attend Friday night football games. It is one of the important things that we
have going on Kaua`i. If in fact the reason for shutting down Friday night football
games was to save the Shearwater population, then I could understand it. But I
really see a lot of other things that are killing Shearwaters at a much higher rate that
are being ignored by the State and by the Federal government. They have the
expertise and the finances to take care of that problem as far as building a habitat
and preventing rats and cats from getting into nests. To just really penalize our
children is what we do by failure to make any progress on extending more night
games to our keiki. Recently, we had Marcus Mariota, number one pick. A lot of our
children out there, they participate in football hoping to make that kind of dream
come true. Again, our failure to really recognize the real problem and allow Friday
night football games to continue because it is not the reason why the Shearwater
population is declining. I do not know even if it is declining. When we had this
discussion before the experts from the State from the non-profits, I said, "How much
Shearwaters are there right now?" They do not even do a count. They guesstimate
by sonar or radar or whatever and they see how much are flying over. They just
multiply it or I do not know what their real rationale is for how much Shearwaters
there are. How do you say it is endangered if you do not even do a count? I think one
fact was that the mongoose population on O`ahu shut them down and that is why
Kaua`i has the abundance of it. If the Newell Shearwater population is really down,
then take care of the mongoose. Why just penalize our youth? That is my issue. I
will continue to fight this issue. I thank Senator Schatz. He is the only one that has
responded and is really trying to do something about extending more games and yet,
trying to be responsible in knowing that we have a court order that we need to follow.
But he talked about extending one (1) or two (2) more games. Instead of three (3)
COUNCIL MEETING 20 JUNE 17, 2015
games, we get five (5) out of the nine (9). Hopefully, we can get some progress. I will
continue to work with him. But I just wanted to make my feelings known. This is an
important issue. I think our consultants should continue to try to make progress on
these night football games because I strongly believe that the night football games
are not by any chance killing the endangered population, and I think we need to do
something about it immediately. Thank you, Chair.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Any other discussion?
Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. It is very evident from the report and the
results that we are getting, that the consultants from Smith Dawson & Andrews are
doing a very good job for us. I just want to say how pleased I am. It is very clear that
their help is very substantial. I appreciate the coordination that Cyndi has been
doing with them. I want to thank Councilmember Kagawa and Chair for continuing
to inquire about the football light situation. If it is indeed hurting the Shearwater
population, we need to take measures to prevent the harm. But if in fact the data
shows that is not the real cause of the problem, then that needs to be recognized. This
idea of what is really causing the problem is very important. I guess I just want to
say that I am hopeful that we get the TIGER grant. At the Smart Growth
conferences, the TIGER grant has been a major source of discussion and to see that
we are now able to take advantage of that opportunity. I do want to thank the
Administration and all of the different team members who have been working very
hard for this because it is a very worthwhile project, and even if we do not get all of
the money or do not get all of the money now, I am confident at some point, we will
be able to get funding for this project and we need to see it move forward. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i: There is definitely a lot of good information in
the legislative recap that they also provided. The only thing that I would say is that
there is so much information, and it is good to have it all. But I would think that it
would work better for the County, and maybe coming from the Mayor's Office, if there
was two (2) kinds of information. One, all of the information of all of the legislative
activity, and two, the second part, the ones that matter that we need to take action
on. If we are asking Congress for letters of support with this Climate Action
Champion Designation, with this EPA Smart Growth Technical Assistance, it would
be good instead of now Councilmember Yukimura asking for a copy of that, for us to
see what it is really about and how we can support that. In fact, when we are
initiating it, it comes to the Council and then goes out to the community because I
think more than information sometimes on the specific things that matter that we
are trying to accomplish and win the grant or win the designation, having community
support, and mobilizing the community to also send letters of support and call the
Congressmen and their Senators, that could help. I think as a community organizer,
who does that in the community, I think it is important to take it to the next-level
and to engage the community where we can, the citizens, and to ask them to mobilize
where it makes sense. I think as the Chair of Economic Development &
Intergovernmental Relations, I want to help with that. I will work with you, Cyndi,
and the Mayor's Office. But a lot of great things here and a lot of potential for
bringing more resources and more good things to our County. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Any other discussion? If not, very
good points. Years ago, we asked for more regular reports from the
lobbyists/advocates. So, now they send us a report every month. I believe we get it
COUNCIL MEETING 21 JUNE 17, 2015
every month. We all get it. Because I agree with Councilmember Kuali`i, that some
of these issues maybe should be brought to this table in the public so we can solicit
the support of the communities. I do not think we should have a monthly report. But
maybe working with the Economic Development & Intergovernmental Relations
Committee Chair, when there is an item that is of that level of importance, that we
should and have their report, not them, but their report and then we can solicit maybe
a Resolution on our part and obviously, the community's support. I think great
points. I mean, this is becoming a bird debate, but I think it is that important.
Councilmember Yukimura, she made the accurate statement that it is a data
collection issue. It is a data issue. We are working with, as Councilmember Kagawa
said, that we do not even know if it is accurate. Matt Bernabe talked about the birds
that are plastic and whatever. These birds leave Kaua`i and they go out for a long
time. They land on the water, they rest on the water, and they get eaten by fish.
They eat things that kills them. There is no way of counting those birds. The Federal
government in their wisdom, assumes that those birds are dying on land because of
lights or lines, and that is the methodology that they have been using all along. Now
with this recent development, someone put up a recording device on the lines and
they are finding when these birds hit the lines. It is counting them. One thousand
two hundred (1,200) birds were found to have been killed on by the lines on the power
line trail. One thousand two hundred (1,200), which prior to that it was supposed
assumed it was because of the lights. My point is this, we, and not maliciously, but
we have been provided misinformation because we have no way of counting the birds
as they die in the ocean or die enroute or hit a window. But we have been basing our
policy decisions and legal/lawful decisions based on misinformation. Councilmember
Kagawa is exactly right. How can we punish anyone without this information? Now,
this new development where the one thousand two hundred (1,200) birds, that is to
me, substantial. That is substantial. Substantial enough that maybe we have to
relook at our policy and say, "Do you know what? Let us go this season playing night
football." That in itself, according to U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, they told me that
they are going to let us play one (1) more game this year at night. But let us see what
happens. I do not want to see the birds die. But we spent a lot of money on the
shielded lights and they work. What I am saying is that we sometimes have to step
out of box and make that decision, and say, "We will prove to you folks that you are
not wrong and we are not killing one thousand two hundred (1,200) birds." I am
sorry, I had to vent. Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: I just want to also say in response to the feral
cats issue, that our Feral Cats Committee is working hard to address that issue
following-up on the task force report that was done by the task force that the
Administration convened and facilitated. Anybody who wants to work on that
problem, please see me. But there is ongoing work being done on that. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Any other discussion?
The motion to receive C 2015-176 for the record was then put, and unanimously
carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much. Next item, please.
Mr. Sato: We are on the top of page 3.
COUNCIL MEETING 22 JUNE 17, 2015
C 2015-177 Communication (05/22/2015) from the Housing Director,
requesting Council approval of the following:
• Disposal of twenty-two (22) boxes containing Housing Assistance
Participant records (outdated); closed Homebuyer loan payment records;
purchase orders; bank statements; employee timesheets; payroll
summaries; Community Development Block Grant (CDBG) files for
Fiscal Year 2007-2008, Health Insurance Portability and Accountability
Act (HIPAA) files from years 1998, 1999, and 2000; and Pa'anau/Kalepa
payment requests from Fiscal Year 2005-2008, pursuant to
Section 46-43, Hawai`i Revised Statutes and Resolution No. 49-86 (1986)
as amended, which has been kept for over seven (7) years and are no
longer of use or value; and
• Continued authorization to dispose of similar records as they become
seven (7) years old.
Councilmember Kagawa moved to approve the first bullet of C 2015-177,
seconded by Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Council Chair Rapozo: Discussion? Did you see the
memorandum (memo)? Not that one. The memo from Housing. It is in your packet.
They are requesting that the document in front of us be revised by deleting
"Requesting continued authorization to dispose of similar records as they become
seven (7) years old." I would not have supported it with that in their anyway. I am
glad they are agreeing to take it out. Councilmember Kagawa's motion was to
approve the first bullet. I guess I would ask the motion to be approving the document
on the condition that section "Requesting continued authorization to dispose of
similar records as they become seven (7) years old" be deleted.
Councilmember Kagawa withdrew the motion to approve the first bullet of
C 2015-177. Councilmember Kaneshiro withdrew the second.
Councilmember Kagawa moved to approve the disposal of records as
requested, removing the clause "Requesting continued authorization to dispose
of similar records as they become seven (7) years old," seconded by
Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Council Chair Rapozo: Discussion? Any public testimony?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
Council Chair Rapozo: Mr. Sykos.
LONNIE SYKOS: For the record, Lonnie Sykos. Hello Council.
One of the reason I came today was because of the second bullet. I would like to thank
the Council for removing that. It is grossly inappropriate to automatically eliminate
records. There could even be, in the future, an investigation going on and then we
discover that we intentionally destroyed the records required for the investigation.
Thank you, Mel, for paying attention to this detail and the rest of you. Aloha.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. The Administration had
requested it be deleted before it hit the floor. Any other public testimony?
COUNCIL MEETING 23 JUNE 17, 2015
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceed as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Further discussion?
The motion to approve the disposal of records as requested, removing the
clause "Requesting continued authorization to dispose of similar records as
they become seven (7) years old was then put, and unanimously carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: Next item, please.
C 2015-178 Communication (06/01/2015) from the Chief of Police, requesting
Council approval to purchase the Officers Safety Package from TASER International,
Inc. in the amount of $51,608.42 from the Kaua`i Police Department (Account
No. 206-1001-551.89-06, Asset Forfeiture Account). This package consists of one
hundred five (105) Axon Flex Body Cameras, twelve (12) Axon 6-bay Evidence.com
docks, unlimited Evidence.com video storage, one hundred five (105)
collar/versatile/cap flex mounts, one hundred five (105) controller/holster/belt clip
flex, premium plus service, one hundred five (105) X26P Taser Conductive Electric
Weapons (CEW), 4-year warranty on one hundred five (105) X26P CEW, one hundred
five (105) X26P CEW battery packs, and one hundred five (105) X26P CEW holsters:
Councilmember Kagawa moved to approve C 2015-178, seconded by Councilmember
Kaneshiro.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Any discussion? Any public
testimony?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
Council Chair Rapozo: Ms. Cowden, or do we have signed up
speakers?
Mr. Sato: We have two (2) registered speakers. The first
speaker is Lonnie Sykos, followed by Felicia Cowden.
Mr. Sykos: For the record, Lonnie Sykos. Just a note for
process. It would be much better for the public to hear what the Police Department
has to say before the public is asked to come up and comment.
Council Chair Rapozo: I appreciate that. If you would like, we will
call them up first and then have the public testimony after that.
Mr. Sykos: Yes please. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: We will not charge Mr. Sykos for his time.
Thank you. KPD.
ROBERT GAUSEPOHL, Assistant Chief: Good morning Council
Chair and Councilmembers. Rob Gausepohl, for the record. Basically, I made a big
mistake and did not realize that we did not already ask for this. We have been before
Council multiple times on this issue. I very much apologize for my mistake. It is my
error.
Council Chair Rapozo: So, you do not need this?
COUNCIL MEETING 24 JUNE 17, 2015
Mr. Gausepohl: No, we do need it.
Council Chair Rapozo: Oh.
Mr. Gausepohl: We thought we already had it.
Council Chair Rapozo: Oh, you thought you had it. I am sorry.
Mr. Gausepohl: We thought we had approval to expend it.
Council Chair Rapozo: Did you want to go over it real briefly? I guess
it would be beneficial, as I read your responses and the original communication, if
you could just go over the process that you are seeking. Basically, you have inventory,
the company came up with a new product line, they are going to give you credit for
your old ones, give you new ones, and there will be a difference. If you could just
explain that for us so that the public knows what the actual net fiscal impact to the
community or to the County is.
Mr. Gausepohl: Absolutely. Earlier this year, we brought
sixty-seven (67) Conducive Electric Weapons (CEW) or Tasers at a cost of about one
hundred twenty-seven thousand dollars ($127,000). After that, we were looking at
body cameras (body cam), which I think everybody agrees is a good project. We have
gotten to a point where we feel comfortable with purchasing the body cameras. The
brand that we wanted, we feel is the best, actually came out with a deal called the
"Officers' Safety Program," where instead of the sixty-seven (67) Tasers, we get one
hundred five (105) Tasers with holsters, plus we get the body cams with twelve (12)
docking stations, and unlimited storage. Without their discount, it is a three hundred
fifty-five thousand dollars ($355,000) cost. With their discount, it is one thousand
seventy-six thousand dollars ($176,000). They are allowing us to send back the
Tasers we have and give us credit for the one hundred twenty-seven thousand
dollars ($127,000). The net cost for this three hundred fifty-five thousand dollars
($355,000) ticket is roughly fifty-two thousand dollars ($52,000), which is not
budgeted, and we need permission to expend out of our Asset Forfeiture Funds.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much. Thank you for that
clarification. Do we have any questions? Councilmember Hooser.
Councilmember Hooser: Good morning.
Mr. Gausepohl: Good morning.
Councilmember Hooser: Just a couple of questions. The unlimited
storage, is that forever or for a year?
Mr. Gausepohl: There is an ongoing cost, which we are going
incur with any kind of electronic storage, and that is one hundred twenty-four
thousand dollars ($124,000) a year after that. We have the initial purchase and
one (1) year storage, and then one hundred twenty-four thousand dollars ($124,000)
after. The one (1) good outcome out of my mistake was that it is a non-budgeted item.
Therefore, we can apply for and get grants for the ongoing expenses and not be
supplanting it all.
Councilmember Hooser: Okay.
COUNCIL MEETING 25 JUNE 17, 2015
Mr. Gausepohl: It was not planned, but it is true.
Councilmember Hooser: Great.
Mr. Gausepohl: We are anticipating moneys to be available for
projects just like this.
Councilmember Hooser: I am happy to see the body cam project
moving forward. When exactly would that start?
Mr. Gausepohl: We are very close to having a good policy in
place. Officer Perreira is also here. Mike Contrades and the County Attorney just
got back from the National Symposium in Las Vegas regarding body camera use and
policies nationwide. My understanding is that our existing policy stacked up very
well. We learned some things that we are going to incorporate. But these are from
agencies that already have been using the cameras and we are just trying to glean as
much knowledge we can and do it right.
Councilmember Hooser: This will be one hundred five (105) body
cameras?
Mr. Gausepohl: Yes.
Councilmember Hooser: When do you expect all the officers to be using
them on a regular basis?
Mr. Gausepohl: Well, we are going to have to make sure the
policy is absolutely solid. I do not want to be in a rush and make a mistake. We want
to make sure we are doing this correctly. Then there is also training that is involved.
We want to make sure everybody is trained, aware of the policy, and just do this right.
We have to be careful in moving forward with this.
Councilmember Hooser: So, within a year, do you think?
Mr. Gausepohl: Yes. I was going to say within a year or so.
Councilmember Hooser: Okay. As that policy is being developed or
when it is developed, will you will be able to share that with the Council?
Mr. Gausepohl: Sure.
Councilmember Hooser: That policy, I would imagine, would instruct
officers when the cameras come on, how to handle it, when it goes off, and that kind
of thing.
Mr. Gausepohl: Right. What we do not want is anybody's
privacy to be invaded. We are the Police Department and we want to protect people's
privacy, not invade it. We have to be careful to draft a policy that reflects that.
Councilmember Hooser: Great. Thank you very much. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you. The Tasers are replacements?
COUNCIL MEETING 26 JUNE 17, 2015
Mr. Gausepohl: Yes, sir.
Councilmember Kagawa: Is it operated better?
Mr. Gausepohl: Yes. Absolutely. We had the X26, which was
analog and now we are updated to the X26P, which is a digital platform.
Councilmember Kagawa: What is the difference between analog and
digital?
Mr. Gausepohl: It records things better and it is more stable.
We are not going to have as much breakage. Also, this plan also covers warranties.
I do not know if that was articulated or not. But at five (5)years, we have replacement
for the Tasers.
Councilmember Kagawa: It sounds like a good warranty.
Mr. Gausepohl: Then at two and a half(2%) and five (5) years,
we have replacements for cameras. We all know how technology progresses very
quickly. At two and a half (2%) years, the camera might be that big instead of that
big. So, it is all incorporated in this. We are not just paying for storage with one
hundred twenty-five thousand dollars ($125,000) a year. We are paying for upgrades
and warranties as well.
Councilmember Kagawa: Second question. I do not know if it is a
question that you normally answer or not, but I am going just ask it because we have
some financial watchdogs in here and I think it is a question worth asking. We are
spending fifty-one thousand six hundred eight dollars ($51,608) from the Criminal
Asset Forfeiture Fund?
Mr. Gausepohl: Yes, sir.
Councilmember Kagawa: What is the balance of that fund now? It
carries forward, right?
Mr. Gausepohl: I believe so. I do not know what the entire
balance is at.
Councilmember Kagawa: You do not know what the current balance of
that is, approximate?
Mr. Gausepohl: No. I am sorry. I could get you that
information though.
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you. Thank you, Chair.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you, Chair. The last time we had this
discussion on the cameras you were able to give us a pretty good description of
function, when it turns on, how long it records for, and so forth. I just wanted to ask
if these cameras that we are getting, are they an upgrade, are the features different,
or are they the same as what we had originally talked about.
COUNCIL MEETING 27 JUNE 17, 2015
Mr. Gausepohl: They are exactly the same.
Councilmember Chock: Okay. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Any other questions? Councilmember
Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Hi. Good morning.
Mr. Gausepohl: Good morning.
Councilmember Yukimura: In terms of ongoing expenses, you said that
we will need one hundred twenty-four thousand dollars ($124,000) per year for
storage after this year?
Mr. Gausepohl: That is storage, warranty, and replacement.
Not just storage, but it is also unlimited storage.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. For the year?
Mr. Gausepohl: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: For the year that you have paid for, and you
said it will also cover replacement?
Mr. Gausepohl: Yes. The cameras will be replaced at two and
a half(2%) and five (5) years, and the Taser devices will be at five (5) years.
Councilmember Yukimura: So, this one hundred twenty-four thousand
dollars ($124,000) is on a yearly basis for storage and it buys you continuous
replacement every two and a half(2%) years for equipment?
Mr. Gausepohl: Two and a half (21/4) for the cameras and
five (5) for the Tasers, yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: I see, okay. If a camera is broken, is that
replaced?
Mr. Gausepohl: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: It is?
Mr. Gausepohl: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: It is automatically replaced?
Mr. Gausepohl: They are under warranty. So, unless it is
abused. I mean, if an officer that jumps in the ocean, it might not be covered. If it is
a normal wear and tear and it breaks, yes, it should be covered. It is the best, most
comprehensive, and cost-effective deal that we have been able to locate with the best
product that we have been able to locate.
Councilmember Yukimura: I appreciate the initiative and the alertness to
looking for this kind of discounted purchases. So, that is good. I am so glad you
COUNCIL MEETING 28 JUNE 17, 2015
mentioned that your commitment to putting in place the departmental policies before
actually utilizing the equipment. I mentioned this to you earlier, but there was an
article in The Garden Island about a jurisdiction where there were questions of use
of police force and the tapes were not viewed. So, I presume that our policies will
have a statement that says, "Whenever the question of police force arises, that these
tapes will be looked at."
Mr. Gausepohl: Absolutely. That is the purpose of project.
Councilmember Yukimura: I know. It was quite shocking to think that a
police department with this technology would not have a policy that addressed that.
But I just wanted to make sure.
Mr. Gausepohl: Those are the type of pitfalls. I mean, that is
a quite obvious one. But there are other more subtle ones that we want to avoid as
well.
Councilmember Yukimura: Maybe you would. Is it your intention that all
officers would wear this all the time?
Mr. Gausepohl: No. We cannot have all officers. We are going
concentrate on is Patrol. There will be some other specialized areas that we might
provide. But one hundred five (105), we have one hundred fifty-nine (159) sworn and
two (2) appointed. That is a large amount of officers that we can outfit.
Councilmember Yukimura: Right. So, your policy is going to cover which
part of the force uses it, when, et cetera?
Mr. Gausepohl: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
Mr. Gausepohl: And when it is appropriate to turn it on and
when it should be turned off.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Are there maintenance requirements
for this?
Mr. Gausepohl: That is inclusive in amount we are discussing.
Councilmember Yukimura: This company that is selling us this
technology will be in charge of maintaining it, and that is included in the one hundred
twenty-four thousand dollars ($124,000)?
Mr. Gausepohl: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you very much.
Mr. Gausepohl: It is a great deal. I mean, we have really
looked into this and for them to be able to offer this to us and give us credit is...and
we need to act this fiscal year. It is important. Again, it is my fault. I am deeply
sorry that I screwed that up.
COUNCIL MEETING 29 JUNE 17, 2015
Councilmember Yukimura: I mean, I think we appreciate the initiative to
get this new technology, which we all see the benefits of at an affordable price as
possible, and you are not asking for any General Fund moneys for this. This is your
Assets Forfeiture Fund. So, you are not unbalancing the budget.
PAUL APPLEGATE, Captain: That is correct.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Hooser.
Councilmember Hooser: A follow-up on the Tasers. What did you refer
to them as?
Mr. Gausepohl: They are called Conducive Electric Weapons,
per the company.
Councilmember Hooser: I assume there is a policy on those, when they
are supposed to be used, and when they are not used.
Mr. Gausepohl: Yes.
Mr. Applegate: Yes.
Councilmember Hooser: Do officers carry both a firearm and Taser on
a regular basis?
Mr. Gausepohl: Yes.
Councilmember Hooser: Are you going to offer something else?
Mr. Applegate: No. I would say that the ones issued, we do
not have enough for everybody. So, whoever is issued one, has it on them.
Councilmember Hooser: Okay. So, as they are going about their
business on a regular basis, they will have a firearm and Taser, and then there is a
policy on when the appropriate use of each of those, I suppose.
Mr. Gausepohl: Yes.
Mr. Applegate: Correct.
Councilmember Hooser: Okay. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Any other questions? You are going to be
getting more Tasers though, right, with this?
Mr. Gausepohl: Yes. We purchased sixty-seven (67), but we
are going to have one hundred five (105) with this purchase.
Council Chair Rapozo: Right. So, they are going to take the
sixty-seven (67) back and send back one hundred five (105). So, you will be able to
equip more officers with the Tasers.
COUNCIL MEETING 30 JUNE 17, 2015
Mr. Gausepohl: Yes.
Mr. Applegate: Correct.
Council Chair Rapozo: It is a good deal.
Mr. Gausepohl: That is a great deal.
Mr. Applegate: It is a good deal.
Council Chair Rapozo: Any other questions? If not, thank you very
much.
Mr. Gausepohl: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Hang tight in the audience because we may
calling you up later.
Mr. Applegate: Thank you.
Mr. Gausepohl: Yes, sir.
Council Chair Rapozo: I am sorry. If we could have Mr. Sykos back
up. Just start his time over. Thank you.
Mr. Sykos: Good morning, Council. For the record,
Lonnie Sykos. First off, Assistant Chief? I want to thank the Assistant Chief for
coming before the public and the Council and admitting to making a mistake and
finding the good path to rectify the mistake. Congratulations for being honest. It is
what we expect from our Police. For disclosure, my great uncle John Poole, rose from
Patrol Officer to Police Chief of a small town in North Carolina. I am not unfamiliar
with the challenges that our police department has. One of the questions that I have,
and this is not implying improper behavior. But one of my questions is in our property
seizure plan, do we seize property without the court's approval? You watch the media,
there are many states on the mainland that have roadblocks all over the states on
the highways and if you are unfortunate enough to be carrying a lot of cash, the police
will take your money from you even though it is for first and last month's rent, to pay
utility bills, and all of the legal reasons you would have to carry cash. They do not
give it back until you prove it was not intended for a criminal activity, which is an
impossibility to prove. I am simply asking the Council if you are aware of what the
rules are which govern the seizure of private property by the police department? I
am alleging no malfeasance or anything. I am just asking the question of what kind
of controls do we have over property seizure, which is certainly appropriate in some
circumstances? The other question I have is that these taped recordings, and I
understand that the police department has operational and security issues, but as a
principle, will these recordings be available to the public through say Freedom of
Information Act requests? Aside from that, I commend them for doing a great job in
getting the cameras and trying to get all of our Patrol Officers equipped with the
Taser. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Sykos.
Mr. Sato: Next speaker is Felicia Cowden, followed by
Matt Bernabe.
-
COUNCIL MEETING 31 JUNE 17, 2015
FELICIA COWDEN: Thank you. My name is Felicia Cowden. I
support C 2015-178 for the purchase of the body cameras. I want to acknowledge
with gratitude and appreciation to the police department for how much weight they
carry on them lately. They must have twenty (20) to thirty (30) pounds worth of
things on them in synthetic fabrics in the hot Hawai`i summer daytimes. I get that
this is another piece of weight, and one that is really looking at their behavior. But I
see it as a win-win for both the police and those that they engage. I think that what
we see as that we will encounter better behavior on both the part of the person under
question as well as the officer who is taking action. My predecessor here, Lonnie,
brought up two (2) important things about the Tasers. Tasers are better than guns.
I think that the cameras are going to help ensure more appropriate use of Tasers and
asset forfeitures. So, both of the concerns that were brought up, I feel like these
cameras help protect both the police and the people from experiencing that. I think
that also when people have gone through trauma with the police department, your
memory is not so good. So, it can also help people keep their memory clear of what
did in fact happen. It will bring accountability afterwards. I do not see where we
have a real loss. I think the one hundred twenty-four thousand dollars ($124,000) a
year is money well-spent for reduced trauma and better enforcement. I want to
support Councilmember Yukimura's statement on ensuring that these videotapes are
available to be viewed. If there is a person who has a concern about how they were
treated, it certainly seems that they are worthy of viewing the videotape as well as
the police department itself. It does not seem to me it should just be a matter of
public record for anybody to view at any time if there is not a compelling reason that
they would have an interest in it. In closing, I support this purchase. I appreciate
that it was requested in May. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much.
Mr. Sato: Our last registered speaker is Matt Bernabe.
Mr. Bernabe: How is everybody? Matt Bernabe, for the
record. I would be a bad person if I argued against the cameras. So, I will tailor it a
little different. The money we are talking about, the seizure money, I would like the
police department to have told the amount total in that account because are they a
municipal or non-profit because how much money are they supposed to have? Even
non-profits can only have a certain amount of money available to them. Instead of
body cameras, I would like, because I was just bragging about how lucky we are that
our small-knit community does not polarize our police like the mainland does. I was
just having this conversation at Kealia. I would like to see some of this money coming
out of the seizure funds for cookouts so that they can meet the people, get out of their
squad cars, and know everybody's names. That way we do not need cameras as much,
right? Cameras can go both ways. They can protect the citizen and the police officer
or they can incriminate either or. That goes both ways. They can incriminate the
cop. We see right now, cameras are on these police officers and they are still rolling
around like ninjas on the ground with little eighteen (18) year old girls. It is not
really stopping cops all over the Nation and I do not think our police is polarized that
the majority of cases need a camera. Now, why are they not budgeting this into their
regular budget is another question for me? I do not mind that they went and looked
for the fifty-one thousand dollars ($51,000) deal on all of this. That is great, and
admitted his mistake. I love it. That is great. But why are they not working this in
their regular budget? Homeland Security grants, I hope no more Homeland Security
grants come to our police department because they have hidden agendas for
federalizing our police department. Like I said, I do not want to sound like I am
against the cameras. I am. But I am also for doing a few other things like slow down
COUNCIL MEETING 32 JUNE 17, 2015
with the helicopters over my house looking for green harvest, right? I mean, you folks
want to talk about trauma. I will be watching television (TV) with my little daughter
back there and the helicopter it is literally...I am worried if they are going to crash
because as we have seen in the media, even marine helicopters go down in Hawai`i.
I do not really like the choppers, no matter what their reason is for my neighbor's
plants or whatever, being over my house. They fly all the time. I obviously do not
have anything because they are not coming to my house. My point being is that let
us find some other ways to interact with the community so we do not have to be so
polarized that we look like Fox News at 6:00 p.m., alright? I will come back.
Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else wishing to testify? Mr. Mickens.
GLENN MICKENS: Thank you, Mel. For the record, Glenn
Mickens. I just wanted to thank our police department for all they do. They need
these cameras and I think it is one of the preventative things that we can do is have
the police for their benefit and for the public's benefit. I think it is a great idea. I
think there are so many things that are happening. They are so controversial. With
the camera, the cameras will not lie. You have got it there on tape. Anyway, I just
want to say I really appreciate what our police do when they go out and risk their
lives by pulling over a car, they do not know if it is some maniac in the car that has a
hidden gun or something. But I do want to appreciate that. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you, Mr. Mickens. Mr. Taylor.
KEN TAYLOR: Chair and members of Council, my name is
Ken Taylor. I just want to go on record as supporting the request for this Officer
Safety package. I think these people put themselves on the line every day for all of
our safety and I think it is really important that we also take care of them. I hope
you all see fit to approve this request. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else? Did you want to come back up,
Mr. Bernabe, for a second time?
Mr. Bernabe: Matt Bernabe, for the record. Like I was
saying, I am not against these cameras at all. I really appreciate them working the
numbers to try to get it lower and a better deal for us, one hundred percent (100%).
What I am trying to say though, is on the bigger picture of this funding that they are
pulling from, what can we use that for that can augment having to buy one hundred
five (105) cameras? To me, even though it is cameras, it is a military solution to a
public relations issue. That is what I see this as. Like I said, if all cameras deterred
bad police behavior, which I am not accusing KPD of. We have our history. But to
me, it is relatively good. I do not feel afraid of my police like I did in Las Vegas seeing
"Homeland Security" on the yellow shirts on the bicycles. I feel pretty good. I do not
think we are at the stage where we need one hundred five (105) cameras. I am
probably the only one who does not say it that it is a great thing. But I just think
there are other mechanisms to get public involvement with our police force. That is
all I want to say.
Councilmember Yukimura: Question.
Mr. Bernabe: Sure.
Council Chair Rapozo: Go ahead.
COUNCIL MEETING 33 JUNE 17, 2015
Councilmember Yukimura: Matt, do not you think if there is an incident
that might put into question police conduct, and if there is a camera that showed that
the police acted professionally, that would help relations?
Mr. Bernabe: Do you know what? I would agree with that
in theory. But when we just watched an officer do a ninja roll on camera while he got
his knees on a little eighteen (18) year old girl's back, which I am ashamed that a
police officer cannot handle teenagers. I am one-legged and I handle my daughter's
friends better than that. They are probably wilder than the middle class kids that
were in that film. What I am saying is if the dogma was true that it was preventing
the cops from going a certain distance and it is preventing the public from going a
certain distance, I would buy it. But a lot of cases it cuts both ways. Sometimes the
cop has to retire like that incident, and sometimes that cop is vindicated. I am saying
that is a bad thing. What I am saying is that the Garden Island, Kaua`i County, is
not at had a level of polarization yet that we could not implement some of that funding
for some outreach programs so that we do not have to have chest protectors. Why
should we have chest protectors in Kaua`i? When was the last time an officer was
shot in chest on Kaua`i? I am just saying. It is a little extreme for our community.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. I do not think anybody disagrees with
your point that there could be a lot more building relationship activities.
Mr. Bernabe: Okay. Well, let me sum it up then. I think
this money could be better spent at this time. When we progress to a point where we
really have to consider cameras, then I will be one hundred percent (100%). I just
feel a few barbecues and outreach programs, knocking on the door. "Hello, I am
Sergeant so and so. This is my beat. I am glad to meet you."
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you.
Mr. Bernabe: "Here is my number and Facebook." We
become friends. That way when I see him, I can help them. I will videotape for them.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you, Matt.
Council Chair Rapozo: Matt, that is Paul and that is Rob. That is
Matt. Perfect. We are starting. Thank you, Matt. Anyone else wishing to testify?
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Council Chair, I think it is appropriate to ask
what the balance is in the Asset Forfeiture Fund.
Council Chair Rapozo: We have it.
Councilmember Yukimura: Oh, okay. Maybe you can share that.
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you, Councilmember Yukimura. The
balance that I have for 2014-2015 was ninety-seven thousand three hundred
dollars ($97,300) and for 2015-2016, it is four hundred eighty-four thousand three
hundred twenty-six dollars ($484,326).
COUNCIL MEETING 34 JUNE 17, 2015
Councilmember Yukimura: What is it?
Councilmember Kagawa: Four hundred eighty-four thousand
dollars ($484,000).
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. From that, we are taking fifty-two
thousand dollars ($52,000)?
Councilmember Kagawa: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you very much.
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you. Thank you, Chair.
Council Chair Rapozo: Any further discussion? Councilmember
Hooser.
Councilmember Hooser: I want to commend the Kaua`i Police
Department for going down this path and I think it really shows some forward
thinking by a relatively small community like ours to move with the body cameras
and also with the electronic Tasers. I think the more we can utilize non-lethal force
is better and to see that every officer is going to be provided with this or certainly the
Patrol Officers, I think, is a very good thing. I commend you on that. I think
Mr. Bernabe actually raises some good points about more community outreach and
more community involvement between the Kaua`i Police Department and the
community. It would be a good thing. I am hopeful that can also go do down that
path in the future. My understanding of the news reports is that the young woman
was fifteen (15) years old. Also, I want to clarify that the video that was shown was
a video by a bystander. It was not a video being worn by the police officer in charge.
I just wanted to point that out for the record. The main thing I wanted to do is just
thank the Police Department. I am obviously going to be supporting this measure.
Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you. I want to also just share that I
am supportive of these cameras. I also agree. We should be looking at ways to create
further outreach. But I do not think it is one or the other. It is both. I think the way
this came about, at least as I recall, was it was presented as somewhat of a pilot
project. I think that what I would like to see in the future is some feedback on how
it is working and how we can make sure it is working to our benefit. That is why I
thought it was appropriate for Asset Forfeiture funding at the time. I am looking
forward to see how this assists our community. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Any other discussion?
Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: I also want to say thank you to the team that
has proposed this on behalf of the police department. I think there has been good
research, negotiations, and planning, that is getting the County the best "bang for
the buck" on a very important tool and equipment to both protect the public and the
police officers. Thank you very much.
COUNCIL MEETING 35 JUNE 17, 2015
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Any other discussion? Likewise,
thank you folks for the research. We had a lot of discussion on the body cameras the
last time you were here. I do not remember the unlimited storage being an option. I
thought we had to pay for storage. I like hearing this, that it is unlimited and yes,
we are paying for the cost or the maintenance. That is fine. At least we are not going
to have to worry about somebody's upload not going through because the cloud is full.
I am really happy about that. Currently, our Tasers already have cameras. So, every
engagement, and if I am wrong, you can say "no." But I believe that the Taser
currently, every time it is engaged, the camera does engage. There is a video
recording of the Tasers. That is already in play and that is a good thing. Obviously,
Mr. Bernabe does bring up some good points. But I disagree with his comments about
the chest protector because I do not want to be the first cop had a gets shot in the
chest without a protector. Although we have the Garden Island, we have a lot of
transients that come here that are from those crazy towns. God forbid. The law of
average is not on our side. It tells us that the longer we go without one, we are going
to get one. We just have to make sure our officers are protected as best as they can.
I am not going to try to answer Mr. Sykos' legal questions because I am not a lawyer.
But I will say that we watch cops on TV and the cops they make the traffic stop, they
ransack the cars. They take what they want. The Hawai`i Constitution is very
prohibitive of that. It is obviously very protective of rights and search and seizures.
It is the whole process. Like I said, I will not get into it Mr. Sykos. We can share the
policy with you. But it has to be proven that whatever was confiscated was a direct
benefit of the crime. It is not just drugs. It is any crime. Thank God for that law
because it allows us to replenish the Asset Forfeiture money. I always say it is nice
to use bad people's money to buy things for the County. I just wanted to touch on
that. Thank you again, for your diligence because we are getting a steal. As I look
over the numbers, we are just getting a really good deal, a long range. You look at
the five (5) year overview. It is just a remarkable deal. Thank you, and I am glad we
will get more Tasers out there to protect our officers.
The motion to approve C 2015-178 was then put, and unanimously carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item, please.
C 2015-179 Communication (06/03/2015) from the Boards & Commissions
Administrator, requesting Council approval to receive and expend funding in the
amount of $2,000 from the Hawai`i State Commission on the Status of Women, to
support the County of Kaua`i Committee on the Status of Women and their ongoing
advocacy and work towards equality for women and girls by acting as a catalyst for
positive change through advocacy, education, collaboration, and program
development. The moneys will also be utilized for their Annual community events,
which include September Women's Health Fair (a partnership with Life's Choices
Kaua`i), October Breast Cancer Awareness, sponsorship of Kaua`i Drug Court
Graduations, 2016 Career Day event, March Women's History Month, April Equal
Pay Day, Walk a Mile in Her Shoes (sponsored by the YWCA), as well as other
activities including travel to the State Legislature for testimony, all in support of
Hawai`i Revised Statutes (HRS) Section 367-3(1)-(7): Councilmember Kagawa moved
to approve C 2015-179, seconded by Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Any discussion? Any questions?
If we do not have questions, she does not need to come up here. Hang on. I do not
know if there will be any questions. I read the communication and the sheets, and I
am totally satisfied with that. Councilmember Hooser.
COUNCIL MEETING 36 JUNE 17, 2015
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Hooser.
Councilmember Hooser: Since she has taken the time to come down,
maybe you wanted to say a few words about the proposal.
LISA ELLEN SMITH, Ex-officio, Hawai`i State Commission on the Status of
Women Representative: Chair and Councilmembers, thank you for
entertaining this idea. No, I do not really have any words. I have written them all.
Council Chair Rapozo: If you could just state your name for the
captioner. I am sorry.
Ms. Smith: Yes, sir. My name is Lisa Ellen Smith. I am
from Lihu`e.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much. Any questions?
Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Not a question. I want to thank you and the
Commission for the work for identifying this source of money. I know that it was
painful to have your budget cut. For you all to take initiative and seek out some
funding so that you can continue your work was very admirable. Thank you.
Ms. Smith: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Any other questions? If not, thank you very
much. Anyone wishing to testify?
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: No further discussion.
The motion to approve C 2015-179 was then put, and unanimously carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item, please.
Mr. Sato: On the top of page 4.
C 2015-180 Communication (06/04/2015) from Councilmember Chock,
requesting agenda time to discuss the formation of a sub-committee to research and
analyze the costs and benefits of a County Manager-Council form of government and
to compare it with the costs and benefits of a Mayor-Council form of government:
Councilmember Kagawa moved to receive C 2015-180 for the record, seconded by
Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Council Chair Rapozo: At this time, we are going to take the caption
break because we are getting close to a caption break. Let us take a ten (10) minute
caption break and then we can continue right through to lunch without any
interruptions. Thank you. Ten (10) minute caption break.
There being no objections, the Council recessed at 10:48 a.m.
COUNCIL MEETING 37 JUNE 17, 2015
The meeting was called back to order at 10:59 a.m., and proceeded as follows:
(Councilmember Kagawa and Councilmember Yukimura were noted as not present.)
Council Chair Rapozo: We are at C 2015-180 regarding the County
Manager-Council form of government. Do we want to have some discussion before
we call for public testimony? Why do we not start?
Councilmember Chock: Yes, I will just give a little bit of background.
The County Manager system has been a topic of discussion for many years, actually.
I know that as a County, we have looked at it briefly, and not really in detail. This
for me, became more of an interest this past year when we had our first collaborative
goal-setting meeting with the Mayor. I thought it was really beneficial that we would
be able to sit together, Council and the Mayor together to really define what the vision
is and what the goals that we are willing to move forward on.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present.)
Councilmember Chock: While it was just one (1) meeting, I think that
it would be a good move in the right direction, which brought up this question of what
are other systems we might be able to look forward to that might be beneficial to one,
save us some income, some money since that is number one on our list, but also
provide another avenue for accountability. We have a Mayoral system right now, and
so this communication is really to bring up a discussion amongst members if there is
an interest to look into it.
(Councilmember Yukimura was noted as present.)
Councilmember Chock: There are so many questions. We are talking
about a system change here. There are so many questions that need to be answered
that we would look towards perhaps enlisting a Resolution and forming a
sub-committee to answer some of those questions. With that, I will also open it up,
Chair.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you, Councilmember Chock. I
appreciate you introducing this. I think it has been a long issue. I think in 2008-2009
it went before the Charter Review Commission. There were some concerns about
legality and there were concerns about the pros and cons of this type of system. I
think the discussion is due. I think it is time to start talking about this discussion
again. My intent is to form a special sub-committee that will do the due diligence on
this matter and have the community outreach so that we can have the community's
involvement and their opinions, and then to report back to the full Council in no more
than six (6) months from now with some possible commendations whether or not the
timing is right. When you look at the current term, we have a sitting Mayor whose
term limits ends in three (3) years. So, should this go on the ballot at the next
election, that it would not impact any sitting Mayor. The timing would be right if, in
fact, that is what the people wanted to do. There are a lot of opinions on this matter.
There are a lot of opinions. But I think what has not happened is the information
and education being conveyed to the public on the pros and cons. I think as we speak,
the last I read, depending on what source, I think NACo's source is about forty-four
percent (44%) the International Association of County Managers or the National
Association of County Managers cite forty-nine percent (49%) of small Counties,
medium Counties, and large Counties that have County Manager systems. It is not
uncommon to find it. It works well in some cases and it does not in others. My hope
COUNCIL MEETING 38 JUNE 17, 2015
is that the committee will be able to take a look at all of these forms, all of the different
jurisdictions, what are the benefits, what are the downfalls, and come back with a
recommendation to the full Council, like I said, within the next six (6) months. So,
that is the hope. Any other discussion? Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you, Chair. I will be supporting any
movement to study this further to see what it would look like and to show our people
of Kaua`i what it would look like, and maybe they could get involved. Primarily, the
County Manager argument, I have heard from three (3) people, from Glenn, Ken, and
Mr. Walter Lewis. On numerous occasions they have been printing in it the paper
and whatnot about how that could fix it. While I think a drastic change is maybe
what we need, I think it takes a lot of due diligence before we reach that point. I am
certainly willing to do that. But I will just point to a few examples, and I will just
point to our University of Hawai`i (UH) system, how we always get optimistic when
we hear about the new President coming and how it is going to change with all of
their success on the mainland and how they are going to come and everything is get
better and how it has not actually. We look at Evan Dobell. He came here will all of
these accolades and what happened? Down. Then we hired Virginia Hinshaw. We
thought she was going to save UH. What happened? Down. Then Ben Jay. We
thought he would improve the Athletic Department from Ohio State. Down. I believe
there is no magic pill out in the mainland, one (1) person is going to come and fix
what we have. But certainly a system, this is more like a system change. It may take
the politics out of decisions being made and I think that is what Glenn, Walter, and
Ken have been talking about. Just a system change to take the politics out and
perhaps we will lead to a more efficient government. But certainly, at this point, like
I said, I saw one (1) E-mail where it said the County of Wisconsin adopted that and
they became successful. But if I recall right, a few years ago, Wisconsin was the worst
State. They were laying off teachers and closing fire stations. Certainly pointing to
a State that has failed and saying that the County is successful, I think you kind of
have to scratch your head on that one. Anyway, those are my comments at this point.
I do always look for, if we can improve, certainly, let us spend the time. My
recommendation is that we all be involved, like a workshop. But if the members
decide that they want to go with just a few people at the outset and then report back
to the Council as a whole, certainly, I think we will have the final say as to whether
we want to put this on the ballot or we will recommend that it goes on the ballot.
Thank you, Chair.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes. The final decision will be made by the
full Council and nothing prohibits the committee from holding workshops for the
other Councilmembers. I think it is the most expedient way to do the due diligence.
Again, this is just fact-finding. It is a fact-finding process that I think a three (3)
member committee would be best way to move forward. Just as an article that just
came out, it was shared with me. This was from San Jose Mercury News. The
average compensation for a County Manager or City Manager today is about three
hundred thousand dollars ($300,000). One of the tasks that the committee will be
looking at is what will this cost. That is why my recommendation for the committee
will obviously be the Budget & Finance Chair, Economic Development &
Intergovernmental Relations Chair, as well as Councilmember Chock who is
introducing the measure because, I think, all of those bases need to be covered, and
that way we can make a keen decision. I think Mr. Mickens, Mr. Taylor, and
Mr. Lewis, and we have received a lot of E-mails as well supporting a County
Manager system because, I think, people are frustrated with what is happening here.
I think that is what is driving this train, is the fact that things just are not getting
done to the satisfaction of the constituents, and they believe that if we had a County
COUNCIL MEETING 39 JUNE 17, 2015
Manager system, things might be different. They may be right and they may not. I
am not sure, and that is the purpose of the committee to go research these
jurisdictions that have systems like that or there are different forms of a County
Manager system. It is going to definitely be a working committee. I think some of
the concerns of the public are valid ones. I just got an E-mail yesterday from
Mr. Kimo Rosen, who has been waiting for somebody to clean the bushes at the
sidewalk on Kawaihau Road at Kuhio Junction for well over a month. In fact, I
believe almost six (6) weeks. It is a safety issue because it is causing a hazard for
pedestrians walking. I bring that up only because I just got that E-mail yesterday.
He is frustrated. He is extremely frustrated, and the question is had we had a County
Manager system, would it be any different? That is the task of the committee that
they need to determine. It is frustrating. It is frustrating for us too because we
cannot direct the Administration to do anything. We can ask. But like I told the
Administration, if it is not done by this afternoon, I am going to go take care of it by
tomorrow morning because I think that is a reasonable request and six (6) weeks is
an unreasonable response. That is what is driving this, is the frustration from the
community that things are not being done and they believe there is a better way. So,
our job is to do the due diligence. That is the hope. Any other discussion before I call
for public testimony? Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. I think that this is a worthy question and
discussion to have. Well, I would like to see the sub-committee actually create the
alternative because, I think, until you do that, you cannot make the comparisons. If
you compare the County Manager's system against the strong Mayor system or our
existing system in the abstract, you can go on forever and ever and not really come to
any workable conclusion. What I am saying is, the alternative of a County Manager
system has to be created in detail so that we know how it is going to work and what
we are comparing, otherwise you are comparing one piece of one form of a County
Manager system with another part of a County Manager system. Let me try to
explain. Right now, we have at least four (4) or five (5) Department Heads who are
part of the Mayor's cabinet who are not appointed by the Mayor or accountable
directly to the Mayor. That is the Planning Director, the Police Chief, the Fire Chief,
the Personnel Director or Human Resources Director, and the Water Chief, which is
a little different. But even before, and I do not know if there are more, these are
major parts of the County. I do not think you can find any other corporation, public
or private, other than the other Counties in the State where the Human Resources
Director is not directly accountable to the Mayor. If you have a Managing Director
form of government, I would guess that in order to make it really work like a
Managing Director County does, you would have to have these Directors be hired and
fired by the Managing Director because otherwise, you will not have a Managing
Director. If the Managing Director does not have the direct accountability, they are
not going to able to manage like a Managing Director. So, that is one of the things
that has to be part of the scenario. Then, as I understand it, the Mayor, if there is a
Mayor, becomes part of the County Council. I like that because then we are one (1)
body instead of two (2) separate bodies. If so, you want an uneven number. So, there
would be logically six (6) Councilmembers and a Mayor. The Mayor under the County
Manager system, is selected by the Council rather than by the vote in the popular
vote or the election. So, you would have to think through these details. I think
Councilmember Kagawa said, we want to know what it is going to look like. How do
you make the comparison until you know what it is going to look like?
These are the kinds of issues in detail that have to be addressed and not only
whether you want it, but whether State law allows it and what changes in State law
do you need if you want to be able to have a Managing Director County? It is not just
COUNCIL MEETING 40 JUNE 17, 2015
an abstract discussion about the pros and cons. It is like creating the Managing
Director system that you really want that is going to be workable in this County and
then how do you do it? Well, first of all, you would create that...
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura, hang on.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: That is what the sub-committee will do.
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, I am concerned about what the
sub-committee is going to be mandated to do, and that is what I want to put on the
table here.
Council Chair Rapozo: At the next Council Meeting, we are going to
have the Resolution forming the committee, and that is where you can share your
concerns. If you have any specific requests that you want, just make sure you get
that to staff because we are not discussing the sub-committee today. Today is just
the County Manager system.
Councilmember Yukimura: I think I am discussing the County Manager
system versus...
Council Chair Rapozo: What you are doing is trying to convince or
trying to state what you believe the task force needs to do. The task force has not
been formed yet.
Councilmember Yukimura: Are we not discussing the advisability of the
formation? This agenda time to discuss the formation of a sub-committee to research
and analyze the costs and benefits of a County Manager-Council form of government.
Council Chair Rapozo: Right.
Councilmember Yukimura: This is what we are discussing today.
Council Chair Rapozo: Well, I mean, I have not even started the
clock. This is discussion. I do not want to have to do that. I just want to make sure
we keep it tight. Next Council Meeting, we will have the discussions at the
sub-committee and what the sub-committee is expected to do. We have seven (7)
different ideas of what should be on that committee. If we do that today, we will be
here all day.
Councilmember Yukimura: I am just trying to help...
Council Chair Rapozo: I guess my concern, Councilmember, is you
are assuming certain things. We do not even now that. They are going to be
analyzing and addressing, like I said in my opening comments, their task will be to
see all the different types of the County Manager systems. They are going to have to
do all of that. The reason I am doing it as a sub-committee or recommending it, is
because this is exactly what I am afraid of. If we do this as a Council, we are going
sit here for hours and hours and hours looking at every single hypothetical where the
committee can do the due diligence and come back to the Council for discussion.
COUNCIL MEETING 41 JUNE 17, 2015
Councilmember Yukimura: My concern is that the committee will go
through all of these hypotheticals and come up with an abstract recommendation
without really looking at...because I want this to be something that moves us to the
real question of do we want it or not, and what is we want?
Council Chair Rapozo: JoAnn...
Councilmember Yukimura: I am bringing these details...
Council Chair Rapozo: Without trying to be offensive, it is not about
what you want. It is the committee is going to do their work and they are going to
come back to this body.
Councilmember Yukimura: Of course it is not...
Council Chair Rapozo: But that is what you are trying to do, JoAnn.
Councilmember Yukimura: No. I am trying to share my opinions and add
to the discussion. I believe that is what we are trying to do around this table.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay.
Councilmember Chock: If I may respond too?
Council Chair Rapozo: Please.
Councilmember Chock: Your point is well-taken. I think moving
forward, we definitely want the same outcome. We want to provide something that
is going to realistically be able to answer a lot of questions that you are bringing up.
How long it takes is another question. But I do not think we are here today, at least
at this time, to answer those things until we get clearer.
Councilmember Yukimura: I am not expecting answers.
Councilmember Chock: I know. What I am saying is we hear you.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you. What I am thinking is that rather
than answers, we are putting forth the questions that need to be addressed if we are
going to do our due diligence to do this. I am just raising some of the details that
have to be looked at in order to fully vet this question. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Any other discussion before I call for the
public testimony? Councilmember Hooser.
Councilmember Hooser: I think this is a good thing. I applaud
Councilmember Chock for initiating the discussion. I actually a year ago or so asked
staff to start working on something and quickly bogged down in details of it. I put it
on the side. I am glad to see Councilmember Chock embracing the challenge that
this is. I am assuming he will be chairing the three (3) person committee, is that
correct?
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, that is going to be my proposal.
COUNCIL MEETING 42 JUNE 17, 2015
Councilmember Hooser: Because he is initiating it that would be my
assumption. I agree with Councilmember Yukimura, that there are many forms and
many implications to consider during this whole conversation, and because there will
be four (4) of us not on the committee, the only time that we have to legally offer our
mana o on this is during these kinds of meetings. Since we only meet once a week, I
am certainly okay spending the time it needs to share our thoughts on this so when
the committee does work, they at least have the benefit of our thoughts and
suggestions as they move forward. My other thought was that I am not sure if six (6)
months is enough time. But I think it is good to be aggressive on that and shoot for
that. But it is a complicated issue and again, I applaud Councilmember Chock and
the committee for moving forward on it. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Any other discussion?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anyone registered to speak?
Mr. Sato: Our first registered speaker is Glenn
Mickens, followed by Lonnie Sykos.
Mr. Mickens: Good morning again, Councilmembers. For
the record, Glenn Mickens. Let me just say before I start my testimony, we in the
public that are trying to get this issue pushed, have no dog in this fight other than
the betterment of Kaua`i. I am never going to run for anything. I do not think Ken
is. Mr. Lewis will never run for anything. We are at the forefront of this thing. So,
we have no other issue in this thing other than trying to better the modus operandi
of this County of ours, okay? You have a copy of my testing. Let me read it for the
viewing public, please. First, I want to thank Councilmember Chock and Chair
Rapozo for putting this issue on the ballot. We have been waiting a long time.
Forming a sub-committee to research and analyze the cost and benefits of a County
Manager-Council form of government and to compare it with costs and benefits of a
Mayor-Council form of government is only the first step towards putting major
efficiencies in our Kaua`i government, but a major step in making it happen. If this
Council Administration listening to the dissatisfaction of its citizens, over the
multitude of problems both past and present that are not being addressed, they will
embrace a system where a professional is hired to solve problem and make decisions
based on our past experience. Should the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of a
multi-million dollar company, Kaua`i, be hired because of his or her popularity or
because of the experience or expertise he/she brings to the table? I think that is a
no-brainer. With a still elected Mayor sitting as one of the seven (7) Councilmembers,
which JoAnn just brought up, is not easy to see how decision making would be
simplified. No finger-pointing about whose problem it is by giving it to an experienced
manager. A manager would be fired in a heartbeat if he allowed a gym roof like the
Kilauea Gym leaking for twenty (20) year with no resolution to it. I have not heard
any resolution to it. The amount of money we have spent on that is obnoxious, or lack
of a site or drug facility on Kaua`i for over ten (10) years, plus traffic, our roads, and
solid waste, all growing worse under our present system. One of the best parts about
using this system is that we do not have to reinvent the wheel as it has been used
successfully around the world. You have a template out there already to go ahead
and look at what is being done and how it is being done. Thousands of municipalities
around the world are using it. You do not have to reinvent what is going on. It is
there for you to take a look at. Any unbiased person who factually compares our
present system to this form of government will be more than willing to least give it a
COUNCIL MEETING 43 JUNE 17, 2015
try. Absolutely nothing to lose and a tremendous amount to gain. Mel, I have
testimony of Walter Lewis here. Do you want me to come back after the next three (3)
minutes?
Councilmember Kagawa: Glenn, one (1) question, and this is a
hypothetical. Let me get your answer as to how you feel. You are saying like the
Kilauea Gym debacle.
Mr. Mickens: Yes.
Councilmember Kagawa: The County Manager would override Doug
Haigh's decision that going in the direction that we did to fix the roof? The County
Manager would need to have that engineering expertise and he will override Doug's
decision to fix the roof the way they did?
Mr. Mickens: Well, the County Manager obviously, he is
going to have people with the expertise to do this. But he is going to get the job done.
It is not going to sit there for twenty (20) years. A door on that gym up there, it had
to be sealed. The water got in and warped the floor. What kind of a thing is that to
take to fix? We have good carpenters on the island. They could have fixed it in a
heartbeat.
Councilmember Kagawa: I understand. But I am just saying, under
that decision to follow Doug Haigh's recommendation to fix the roof the way they did
on three (3) occasions or whatever they did.
Mr. Mickens: Yes.
Councilmember Kagawa: The Mayor did not, I think, use political
influence. He just listened to somebody who had more expertise than him in that
area and followed that recommendation. Obviously, that recommendation was not
good.
Mr. Mickens: Right.
Councilmember Kagawa: Because it kept leaking.
Mr. Mickens: Right.
Councilmember Kagawa: I am just wondering, how would the County
Manager be different from the Mayor in that Kilauea Gym roofing?
Mr. Mickens: Well, I am sure you folks even asked the
question. You asked it to Lenny Rapozo when he was here. Did you consult with a
local roofer? He said, "No." Well, why not? I am sure a County Manager would not
sit there and say, "Go ahead and ask the roofer." He is not going to a hire a consultant
to tell him how to do his job.
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you.
Mr. Mickens: You are not going to pay one hundred fifty
thousand dollars ($150,000) to a consultant. For what?
COUNCIL MEETING 44 JUNE 17, 2015
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you. I guess you answered my
question. You area saying that the County Manager would directly manage it in a
better fashion.
Mr. Mickens: Exactly.
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you. Thank you, Chair.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Next speaker.
Mr. Sato: Next speaker is Lonnie Sykos, followed by
Ken Taylor.
Mr. Sykos: For the record, Lonnie Sykos. I am fully in
support of creating a sub-committee. I am not fully in support right now of changing
our system to create a manager, but I am fully in support of radically changing our
current system. Councilmember Yukimura says we have a strong Mayor. In
Political Science 101 class our strong Mayor is called a "patronage system" and
therein lies the problem that we have. Some of our managers, as Councilmember
Yukimura has pointed out at least twice this year, have engaged in making decisions
that have cost us millions of dollars. The problem that we have is not that our
employees make errors because that is reality. The problem is, it does not matter
how egregious of an error that you make, you are never held accountable for the
errors. If Mr. Haigh was the one that said, "Oh, fix the roof this way" and the roof
did not get fixed, why did Mr. Haigh not ever get a pay raise? Why does he remain,
not that I am picking on him in this? This is hypothetical. I have nothing against
Mr. Haigh. I like him and I am not promoting any action to be taken, but to address
Ross. If they make the decision to fix the roof and the roof does not get fixed, maybe
the wrong person is in the job making the decisions, okay? There is no accountability
today and that is what we are hoping for from the manager who does not have to be
worried about losing people's votes because they hold other people accountable.
Secondly, whether we have a manager or a strong Mayor, some Department Heads
are never going to be under the control of a politician. The Police Chief cannot be
ordered by a politician to do anything, legally. That violates Federal and State
Constitutions as well as the County Charter. The Police Chief has to be independent.
The Fire Chief. Can the Mayor tell the Fire Chief"provide more service for this area
and less service for that area?" Is that constitutionally legal? No. The Mayor cannot
have authority directly over the Fire Chief. Planning. The same thing. In the
Planning Department, politicians cannot determine the decisions of the Planning
Department. They are supposed to be the result of due process, not political
expediency. What we are hoping for is an examination of how it is that our County
system fails and to address the failures.
Council Chair Rapozo: I have to stop you there. Your time is up. We
have a question. Go ahead, Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: Lonnie, one of the problems, I guess, with the
direct accountability of the managers is that they are civil servants, like Mr. Haigh,
and not to place any blame. Glenn brought up the Kilauea Gym as an example.
Mr. Sykos: Right. Correct.
COUNCIL MEETING 45 JUNE 17, 2015
Councilmember Kagawa: I just brought up that Doug was building and
he had consultants, I think, assist him on at least two (2) of the times that they
reroofed.
Mr. Sykos: Correct.
Councilmember Kagawa: The consultants are partly to blame, I guess.
How do we hold civil servants accountable if we have that County Manager? Do you
know what I am saying? It is not like an appointed position where he can suspend
his pay raise or fire him or what have you. When they are a civil servant making the
call, I do not see the difference between the Mayor trying to, I guess, reprimand or
whatever the manager, rather than the County Manager? I do not know if you have
a response.
Mr. Sykos: Well, my response is this; the people that the
Mayor appoints or hires are people that the Mayor has the authority to hold
accountable for doing their job and if they do not do their job correctly, they get
retrained hopefully, or demoted, fired, reassigned, or whatever the appropriate
response is. The problem is for say the Police Chief. We are unclear still. We are in
court over who has the authority over the Police Chief. It is 2015. We wrote the
Charter was written in 1968. How come we got from 1968 to 2015 without knowing
who is in control of the Police Department? My response is, if you hire a professional
manager, that is their job to provide those answers. Our Mayor is only required to
be what, twenty-six (26) years old or something? Thirty (30) years old and a resident
of Kaua`i.
Council Chair Rapozo: Lonnie, the question was about the civil
servants.
Mr. Sykos: My response is what it was.
Council Chair Rapozo: One (1) more.
Councilmember Yukimura: Lonnie, if we have a Manager form of
government, that means that the manager is not elected and therefore is not a
politician.
Mr. Sykos: Correct.
Councilmember Yukimura: Therefore, I believe, in many County Manager
situations, the Planning Director, the Fire Chief, and the Police Chief are all
accountable to the Managing Director.
Mr. Sykos: Correct.
Councilmember Yukimura: Because they are...
Mr. Sykos: Not a politician.
Councilmember Yukimura: ...theoretically not accountable to a politician
that is subject to a lot of political dynamics, but are accountable to a professional
manager. That is one of the aspects of a County Manager form of government that, I
think, is attractive to people on this island who are frustrated with the politics.
COUNCIL MEETING 46 JUNE 17, 2015
Mr. Sykos: Correct.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
Mr. Sykos: Yes. Our Commissions could act differently
and exercise different authority than they do. But lacking that, the manager is the
simplest way to address all of these issues.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, you are right. It is not to say there might
be other functions for a Police Commission, for example.
Mr. Sykos: Correct.
Councilmember Yukimura: Which is the...
Mr. Sykos: This is not eliminating a...
Councilmember Yukimura: Civil lay people buffer between the
paramilitary organization and the community.
Mr. Sykos: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Hooser.
Councilmember Hooser: Thank you for raising these very good points,
Lonnie. You mentioned the word "patronage."
Mr. Sykos: Yes.
Councilmember Hooser: I do not believe everybody understands what
"patronage" means. If you could explain what patronage is in a political/government
sense?
Mr. Sykos: In a political/government sense. In theory, all
government activities are supposed to be meritocracies, that it does not matter who
you are, who your background is, your politics, your religion, or whatever. It does not
matter. The only thing that matters is the quality of your performance. So, that is
meritocracy. As you move away from performance of that independent evaluation of
the performance, that means someone who is not potentially influenced by politics,
right? As you move away from having that meritocracy, by definition, you are
entering into a circumstance in which who the person is starts to take on importance
versus the job that they did. So, that is the difference. Patronage is the ability to
award people with benefit from the government who have not demonstrated that they
have earned it through merit.
Councilmember Hooser: Patronage would be the ability to hire people
without going through a merit process?
Mr. Sykos: Correct.
Councilmember Hooser: Just like the Department Heads, for example?
COUNCIL MEETING 47 JUNE 17, 2015
Mr. Sykos: Correct.
Councilmember Hooser: It would be patronage types of jobs.
Mr. Sykos: Yes.
Councilmember Hooser: It is in their interest that the person who is
giving them the job, is re-elected so they can keep their job?
Mr. Sykos: Yes. For example....
Council Chair Rapozo: I think you answered the question. Did he
answer your question? I think he made it very clear. He will be able to come back
and do three (3) minutes. Again, the question and answer is not to allow speakers to
have more time to share their opinions. It is to answer questions of Councilmembers,
and I think you answered the question as far as the patronage system. It goes away
from the merit. It comes to basically, a payback. You support me, I take care of you.
That is the patronage system.
Mr. Sykos: Yes.
Councilmember Hooser: Thank you, Chair for further expanding on
that.
Mr. Sykos: Thank you, Mel.
Council Chair Rapozo: If you have another question, that is fine.
Councilmember Hooser: I think it is an element that has not been
discussed and that needed to be on the table front and center, that with the County
Manager position, would those employees then work to help make sure that the
County Manager got re-elected? The answer is "no because he or she is not elected."
Mr. Sykos: Correct.
Councilmember Hooser: Okay.
Mr. Sykos: I mean, the answer is "no" because he is not
elected.
Councilmember Hooser: Thank you very much.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Next speaker.
Mr. Sato: Next speaker is Ken Taylor, followed by
Felicia Cowden.
Mr. Taylor: Chair, members of the Council, my name is
Ken Taylor. One of the issues that came up earlier is does this solve all of our
problems in making a change to a management style of government? No, it does not.
But it makes it better. We can always strive to make things better. Government at
its best is not great. I support forming a committee to look into the County
management form of government. I think there should be a timeline of three (3)
months with progress reports monthly to this body. At the end of the three (3)
COUNCIL MEETING 48 JUNE 17, 2015
months, a decision should be made to move forward and place it on the ballot or drop
it. If we are moving forward, we will never plenty of time to educate the public while
continuing to finish getting the Charter and ballot language in order. I have a
question for each of you. Each of you now have a one hundred eighty million dollars
($180,000,000) financial portfolio in need of a financial manager to administer the
funds, and you have two (2) applicants for the position. The first applicant is a citizen,
a nice person, over thirty (30) years of age, and has been a resident of the County for
over three (3) years. The second applicant, a U.S. Citizen, a professional manager,
with a masters or Ph.D. Degree in Financial Management, and ten (10) years
experience with a record you can check. It is your money. Which one would you hire?
Why not let the voters of this County make the same choice? It is their money. I
think it is really important that we move forward with taking a look at this. One
thing that is very different in a management form of government is that first of all,
there is no over there. The buck stops here. It will be important for all of you to hire
the best possible manager we can have because you will look good. He, in turn, will
perform and he will require the people working under him to perform. If he fails, the
community is going to come back to you folks and say, "Hey, something has to change"
and then you have the power to change it. Right now, you have no power to change
anything.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Taylor: Thank you.
Mr. Sato: Next speaker is Felicia Cowden, followed by
Matt Bernabe.
Ms. Cowden: For the record, my name is Felicia Cowden. I
am glad that this discussion is on the table. I support that. I do want to acknowledge
I do not understand the County management system well enough to say I support
having a County Manager or not. These are just comments. I have several concerns
and I have a suggestion. In it, I also really like what Councilmember Yukimura said
in that looking comparatively, not just at the County Manager position, but how we
could possibly make some other alternative adaptations. My concern is, like when I
hear what Ken Taylor just spoke of with criteria for managing my money, I appreciate
that. In managing a County, it is not just managing my money, it is not just the one
hundred eighty million dollars ($180,000,000). It is the seventy million (70,000,000)
people that live here and the twenty million (20,000,000) visitors. So, there is a
human element not....what did I say? Oh my gosh. Seventy thousand (70,000) and
the twenty thousand (20,000) visitors. It is not just money. I think that looking at
these different elements in our existing County are very important, too. What I would
put out on the table there is that maybe skillset criteria for all elected positions are
very important. Rather than say having this degree or that degree because very often
we are going pull somebody who is completely independent from our community. I
think that is my biggest concern. If we brought somebody over here that had perfect
things from Minneapolis, with all due regard to Minneapolis, they might not really
understand a lot of the subtleties that are very critical here. The Managing Director
position that is under the Mayor is almost like having a Managing Director. I might
not have the name right. But like Gary Heu. He had really great business
experience. When I look at Jay Furfaro, he has really very robust business
management skills. I think when we look at what kind of business person we have
to support the Mayor, that is very important. When I think about a County Council
really having a lot to do with how they pick the Mayor as a Mayor, well, we are still
then at the whim of our layperson Council. I think that we are losing a layer of the
COUNCIL MEETING 49 JUNE 17, 2015
balance of power. I am outlining some concerns I have, outlining the suggestion that
we really should have skill criteria set for all of these positions, and I would love to
be at that Committee Meeting. I do not know if that is going to be open to the public.
But I would really like to learn more about it and I hope it is open to the public so
people can participate.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. They will be public meetings. Do
you have a question?
Councilmember Yukimura: Do you not see a difference between the
present system and County Manager system that the Manager may not do
professionally in this system what he or she thinks should be done because there is a
political Mayor calling the shots?
Ms. Cowden: I do see that difference. But when we look at
the Managing Director's position, it might be that position could be changed a bit on
how it is lined up. I started at the very beginning saying there are subtleties that I
am owning that I do not get and I need to learn more and I need to know more before
I feel like I can make a qualitative decision even at the ballot box, right?
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. I think that is the intention behind this.
Ms. Cowden: But if there are just three (3) people who
decide it, I would like to be able to learn more. It is not clear to me that it is a change
that we need to make yet because I just do not understand enough.
Councilmember Yukimura: Right. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Next speaker.
Mr. Sato: Next speaker is Matt Bernabe, followed by
Doug Smith.
Mr. Bernabe: How is it? Matt Bernabe, for the record. I
support moving forward to Council on this issue, however, I have strong reservations.
Two (2) of the main issues that I have is I am assuming it is an appointed position.
If there is some criteria, like Councilmember Kagawa was pointing out, that if you
are going to micromanage everything, this manager has got to be an engineer, a
farmer, and all of these other things. If that is the argument, I do not see why
somebody like me, who does not have a managerial business background, but I have
been a chef. I have been in the Army. I definitely can micromanage groups. I
coached. You can get it in all forms, somebody who can run the show, and make good
commonsense logic. But when you go and put criteria before you can get in the job, a
person like me or somebody who raised ten (10) kids and put them off to college, some
home mom who decides she wants to get involved, she is out of the loop. She cannot
be involved. That is one (1) thing. The other thing is that it still leaves us up to
corruption, in my opinion, even more so because if somebody is business oriented,
they are not going to think about the tangibles like Felicia just pointed out. They are
only thinking about the bottom line, bottom line, and bottom line. They are not
thinking about the human aspect of what it takes to run a County. I have strong
reservations. I would like to move forward. Here is what I will say as far as a
solution. Like what you folks are all talking about, let us create the language that
makes it mandatory for the Department Heads to hold the criteria in their field, the
pedigree for those specifics, and let us get away from the patronage aspect of this.
COUNCIL MEETING 50 JUNE 17, 2015
Let us create the language that the Mayor cannot put his sister, cousin, or brother
who only worked over here. They do not have the degree. I do not know what the
case is. I am making it up. The other thing is if we do move forward with a City
Manager or a County Manager, they need to at least live here for five (5) years. You
cannot have some transplant. I am sorry. I will say it. You cannot have some
transplant coming over here and dictating what is going on here because do you know
what? There are a lot of people who voted for our last Mayor. They are not going to
be happy. I do not want to be the person pointing this out. But you do not see anybody
in here that is going for manager, to me, that graduated from Kapa'a High School or
Kaua`i High School. I am the only one who probably graduated on this island and I
am skeptical of a City Manager or County Manager. I will come back.
Council Chair Rapozo: Next speaker.
Mr. Sato: Our last registered speaker is Doug Smith.
DOUG SMITH: Doug Smith. What is the effect on the
homeless people and the poor forced to live in their vehicles? That is all I have to say.
Make your judgment according to that and according to our loving creator, who you
are all answerable to, as well as myself.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you.
Mr. Sato: We are back to Mr. Mickens.
Council Chair Rapozo: Mr. Mickens, you are going to read Mr. Lewis'
testimony?
Mr. Mickens: Yes. For the record, Glenn Mickens. Yes.
Thank you, Mel. Walter cannot be here. He is take caring of his wife. We feel very
fortunate to have Walter as a pro bono retired attorney for thirty-seven (37) years
and be able to give us advice on the legality of some of these things. Here is Walter's
testimony. Congratulations to the Council for bringing to its threshold discussion of
a governmental system for our island that could profoundly benefit our people. A
Council Manager type of system is well-known and frequently used throughout
America. About one-third (1/3) of all Americans live in communities having this
system. Approximately one-half(1/2) (fifty percent (50%) of all cities have a population
more than two thousand five hundred (2,500) uses this system. The heart of the
system is the appointment by the Council of a manager who serves at the pleasure of
the Council to have responsibility for the direction of operations of the community.
This manager has been educated and trained for performance of such duties. About
two-thirds (2/3) of all managers serving elsewhere have received Master Degrees,
usually in Public Administration, and have been engaged for some number of years
in public service. These qualifications are vital to bring a professional quality to the
direction of our affairs. The structure of a Council Manager system is quite flexible
and is easily adaptable to meet local requirements. For example, it frequently
provides for inclusion of a Mayor on the Council who is popularly elected and who
provides ceremonial and other services. Remember, he is going to be sitting here with
one of you. So, he has one-seventh (1/7) of the vote. So, it is not like he is completely
just a ceremonial type of person. The step proposed today is the selection of a
committee of Councilmembers to study the cost and benefits and features of a Council
Manager system that might be proposed for establishment of on Kaua`i. I urge the
Council to take this important action. For the Council Manager system to be adopted
here, it will require the Council to agree upon the detailed terms to be included, for
COUNCIL MEETING 51 JUNE 17, 2015
the proposal to be included in next year's ballot, and be favorably approved by our
voters. In my view, the many sound features of this system will enable our County
to enjoy a more cost-effective and better-run government. Regards, Walter Lewis.
It is pretty clear that if the Mayor is sitting here with you folks, the
finger-pointing stops. He cannot say, "I did not get it from over there." I am part of
the system. I am part of the vote right now. I think this is a huge favorable factor,
having this accountability given to a manager that obviously has to have very
stringent requirements to be able to get this job. Hopefully, it would be some manager
that has done this system before someplace else. That is all.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay, Glenn. Thank you. Any questions for
him?
Mr. Mickens: Thank you, Mel.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much. Lonnie. Second time.
Mr. Sykos: For the record, Lonnie Sykos. First, I would
like to thank Matt back there for giving us an even better understanding of how
deeply entrenched patronage is in which it should matter whether or not somebody
graduated from high school on Kaua`i as to whether they should be a manager here
in this County. If you are of the mindset that you should be a graduate from Kauai,
fine. I do not. Of the next agenda items is releasing the Executive Sessions about
funding the helicopter by charging people for being rescued. Is the Council aware
that the Council has heard hours and hours and hours of testimony back in 2007 and
2008 regarding the fact that the Fire Chief, his two (2) assistants, the Finance
Director, the Procurement Officers, and others all appeared multiple times before you
people, this Council, and said that the County had in place a cost control plan to
control the expense of the helicopter in place before we bought it, because they did
and it is public record. If you want to know how it is that a manager might save us
from ourselves, is the entire discussion about the expense of the helicopter. Had we
had a professional manager and had the manager done his job, he would have not
simply requested, as the Council and other members of the public did, to actually see
a copy of the plan. He would have forced the plan to be released and we know from
public testimony, that even though they told us that they had a plan, they do not have
one. They never had one in writing. Whatever was in their head is irrelevant and
does not exist in space and time. This one issue, the helicopter, would not be the issue
today if politics had not been part of the process. Secondly, hiring the pilot. We
purchased the helicopter and hired the pilot violating our own purchasing principles
legally albeit. But there was no need to do it and basically what we want is a
manager, a professional with training and experience, to protect us from our own
folly. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you.
Mr. Taylor: Chair and members of the Council, Ken
Taylor. A couple of things I just wanted to touch base on so that do not
misunderstand. The Mayor's position does not disappear. It just gets relocated.
Under a management style of government, the Mayor is still elected at-large, becomes
the Chair of the Council, and the seven (7) of you make the decisions of how the
County is going to move forward in the future, what the priorities are, and you set
the policies which govern the workload of the manager. He is there to carry-out your
policies and your directions, and to do it in most efficient manner. No manager with
COUNCIL MEETING 52 JUNE 17, 2015
any credibility only deals with the money. I mean, the money is the beginning part
of the County's operations. The intricacies of each Department are very important in
how that money filters down and gets used in those Departments is very important.
I hear week after week, you folks sit here talking to County Department Heads.
When it is all over, it is well, we have no control over what they do. You control the
purse strings. But when you release the money, you have no control over where the
money gets spent. Under a management style of government, that changes. Going
back to the Mayor's situation, if one (1) of you and I are running for Mayor, what is
our platform? What do we tell the community? Our platform is what our vision of
the future for the community is. The community decides then on electing one (1) of
us to sit there, which would then be the guiding light for the next four (4) years as to
what the Council does. I do not believe that we can change all of the issues in the
Charter that need to be done in one (1) swoop. We need to go after it in several
applications. I would like to see a four (4)year term for all Councilmembers staggered
so that we have a 3:4 vote. One (1) year the Mayor and three (3) of you are elected
and the next, maybe two (2) of you, and next year four (4) of you are elected. So, that
makes continuity much better. I came from a community where we had a County
Manager for twenty-six (26) years. That is good continuity. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you, Ken. Felicia, did you want to
come up a second time?
Ms. Cowden: I think I made my point.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Matt.
Mr. Bernabe: Matt Bernabe, for the record. I would first
like to start by saying that I did not say you had to be a graduate of Kapa'a High
School or one of the schools. I said, "Live in the County for five (5) years before you
run." That was my statement. I have written right here. If we start treating the
government like a corporation, then I will not be able to come and testify over here.
No sense. We are going to eliminate testimony. The other thing, why run a Mayor?
We pay the Mayor more than the Chair. Let us just remember that the Mayor and
just have seven (7) Councilmembers. It is cheaper. The Mayor makes more than you,
I am assuming, Mr. Rapozo.
Council Chair Rapozo: Everybody makes more than I do.
Mr. Bernabe: Okay, so there you go. Let us just keep the
Chair and forget the Mayor. I just want to reiterate that this is democracy to me. I
feel like I am just stepping into this arena. You folks only seen me recently. What if
I decide I want to run for Mayor? I am just saying. I am putting this as a personal
story. You folks creating this right before I am eligible to run for Mayor. I mean, I
could run already, but I am just saying. My eligibility means that I am now ready to
psychologically, and I decide I have something add to this community. I have skills
to run and hold those Department Heads to task and what not. But I do not have
this college pedigree, so you are out. That to me, is a knife in democracy. That is not
how it was designed. In California, they did this conversion in many Counties. Some
of them have failed right out, but many of them are run by the corporate entities that
surround them that live there. I am just putting out there that, yes, let us move
forward with the committee on this. I probably will not support whatever it comes
up with. I mean, unless there is some way to allow me, the regular Joe, to ascend to
the position...I served in the military and this is not democratic. I do not care what
the gentlemen behind you say. To me, everybody should be able to run for that
COUNCIL MEETING 53 JUNE 17, 2015
position. Do you know what? A lot of people voted the person in. He may have made
mistakes, but he is still representing a large portion of people who won at the last
ballot, right? I am just saying the numbers are saying, the Mayor is in. The people
that voted for him are not in here supporting this. There is a lot of room in this
conversion process to be hijacked by the wrong people. I just think we should double
down on the language that make accountability of the Heads of these Departments
and you folks vet them right here. Do they not all come through here? Let us create
the language that makes them more responsible for their actions. That is all I am
saying. I think it is the easier way to go. I think it is a lot easier way to go by just
creating the language for that, then recreating the whole system, to me.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much.
Councilmember Yukimura: Question.
Council Chair Rapozo: Oh, question.
Councilmember Yukimura: Matt, the thing about requiring a certain
amount of both experience and education is if you do not have someone who knows
how to deal with budgets or understands complex systems, the level and cost of
mistake made at the CEO level is horrendous.
Mr. Bernabe: I agree. However, I would like to point out
that experience can come in other venues. You can be a successful mom on a
shoestring budget, send your kids off to college, and still know how to budget better
than some of the people that are running the County and some of these Department
Heads.
Councilmember Yukimura: You are right.
Mr. Bernabe: I could be a chef. I could be a farmer.
Councilmember Yukimura: But you could also...
Mr. Bernabe: We bring things.
Councilmember Yukimura: But you could also have someone elected who
cannot handle those problems.
Mr. Bernabe: Are you saying that the manager is going to
be an elected position or an appointed position?
Councilmember Yukimura: No, no. We are just talking about what the
qualifications need to be for such a position.
Mr. Bernabe: Well, I understand.
Councilmember Yukimura: And what the risks are.
Mr. Bernabe: But the risks come in both a manager and
Mayor because if you have somebody so qualified in business and all they are thinking
about is the bottom line, he is an easier sellout to me, then somebody who just makes
a mistake because he did not know.
COUNCIL MEETING 54 JUNE 17, 2015
Councilmember Yukimura: That is the question of accountabilities. Who
accountability to whom? The Managing Director has to be accountable to an elected
body.
Mr. Bernabe: Well, I agree. But I am still stating and
standby, that the rewriting of the language to make that occur is easier than
recreating the whole system.
Councilmember Yukimura: That is possible.
Mr. Bernabe: I think that is the way to go on this issue.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. I am going to go through and you
can come back. Mr. Smith. Felicia.
Ms. Cowden: Felicia Cowden. I just wanted to clarify
something that may have gotten missed. When I spoke about skillset criteria, I
specifically chose those words as opposed to "degrees." Degree is a value, and people
can develop quality skillsets as measured by many different ways that they could
have worked and they are and to manage a big budget. I have managed a small
business worth four million dollars ($4,000,000) to five million dollars ($5,000,000).
That is not the same thing as the two hundred million dollars ($200,000,000) budget.
We would be looking at volume and elements like that of what goes in there. But that
is just why I had said"skillset criteria"because it is different than necessarily degrees
or paperwork, though those are valuable, too. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you for that clarification. Anyone else
wishing to testify? Mr. TenBruggencate.
JAN TENBRUGGENCATE: Thank you, Chair. Jan TenBruggencate. I am
the current Chairman of the County Charter Review Commission. I just wanted to
report to the Council that this issue has been taken up by two (2) separate Charter
Review Commissions, both of which submitted reports. I was part of the latest of
those in 2010, driven largely by the concerns of the same group of people who have
pushed it on your agenda. A number of issues were reviewed in both of those cases.
There are boxes and boxes of information about this, which will come into your
possession if you choose to do this. I think the seminal issue that both Charter
Commission efforts ran into was that as I understand it, State law does not envision
a County Manager form of government. The State law, between twenty (20) and
fifty (50) references in State law to interactions with the Mayor, and many of them
envision a Mayor who is both an elected Mayor and a Head of the administrative
branch of government. The State statute also called for the County to have an
Executive, an administrative and legislative form of government, which would not be
the case in this. At some point, one of our conclusions was that you would have to
make significant changes in State law before you could even consider going down this
path. But I did want to, because I have been up to my hips in County Charter issues
for the last few years and to some degree for the last forty (40) years, make one (1)
correction, which I think JoAnn recognizes. But Mr. Sykos suggested that we have a
strong Mayor form of government. We have the weakest Mayor form of government
in the State of Hawai`i with significant amounts of the executive power in the hands
of citizen commissions in a way that is not seen in the other Counties. My lights are
changing. I am done. I am happy to answer any questions.
COUNCIL MEETING 55 JUNE 17, 2015
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: I think you said it, but I am just wanting to
get that confirmed. You are saying that if we want to have a County Manager form
of government, the first change that we need is a change in the statute in the State
law and enabling legislation?
Mr. TenBruggencate: I am not an attorney. I cannot reference that.
But the two (2) different Charter Commissions that looked at this issue, received from
two (2) different County Attorneys, who at the time were serving under two (2)
different Mayors because it happened at different times. In both cases, those County
Attorneys said that the State statute preempts the County's ability to move to the
classic County Manager form of government. But what is also clear is there are many
permutations of municipal governments. One of the things that was suggested to us,
you could simply make the job of the Managing Director of the County have the same
qualifications as what folks are talking about as the County Manager. In that
situation, you could make a fairly simple change to the Charter and presumably
accomplish many of the things that you are looking for. On the other hand, one (1) of
the things that has come up repeatedly is that if you want to create more
accountability, one way is to change this system by shifting away from a
Mayor-Council form of government. But another way is to give the elected Mayor the
accountability that the Mayor does not now have, over the significant amount of
County government that is run by citizen commissions rather than by elected
officials.
Council Chair Rapozo: I have a question real quick, and it is a
follow-up. I have got to say this though, the issue for me on the Council, we talked
about the gym and the issues that we have with parks. Those Department Heads
come under direct control of the Mayor.
Mr. TenBruggencate: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: The other question I have is, and do not take
this in the wrong way, Jan, because I respect you and I appreciate your work on the
Commission. But is it not true that the two (2) Charter Commissions were appointed
by the Mayor?
Mr. TenBruggencate: And confirmed by the Council.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, but they were appointed by the Mayor.
Mr. TenBruggencate: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: And the County Attorneys that opined.
Mr. TenBruggencate: By different Mayors over time.
Council Chair Rapozo: It does not matter. I am just saying it is not
about the person, for me.
Mr. TenBruggencate: Right.
COUNCIL MEETING 56 JUNE 17, 2015
Council Chair Rapozo: It is not about Bernard or Bryan or Kaipo or
whoever else. It is not about that. Take the personalities out of it. The fact remains
that you are talking about a system that prohibit a Mayor from running in future.
Mr. TenBruggencate: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Why would he or she support this movement?
So, that is the question I have. You are having a Mayor appointed Charter Review
Commission and a Mayor appointed County Attorney. I mean, did the Charter
Review Commission ever think about getting an opinion from the Attorney General
because it is involving the State statute and not a County rule because what was
passed out to us, Councilmember Hooser at the time, he was in the Senate requested
this. Believe me, we have a completely different opinion from the Attorney General.
I would say if we are going to look at, and that is what the purpose of the committee
is, to put the politics and rubbish aside and go down the due diligence effort that we
can actually look at. Take out the personalities. That is so difficult.
Mr. TenBruggencate: If I could respond, briefly. I think it is
absolutely clear and it was clear in our assessment of what is happening around the
Country, is that there are communities that are excellently run with a Mayor-Council
form of government very much like the one we have and there are ones that are very
well-run as Ken suggests, that are run by a County Manager form of government.
There are also plenty of examples of very poorly run cities or bankrupt cities, run by
both forms of government. I do not think the form of government is the panacea that
some people think it is.
Council Chair Rapozo: I agree with you. I mean, if it was a ballot
question, if I had to vote today, I would not vote to change the system that we have.
I would not. I think if you just Google "City Manager or County Managers arrested,"
and look at how many are caught for embezzling government money or
misappropriating government money. Like I told Glenn, Ken, and Walter, our game
the game of the County strong Mayor system, is not broken. Do not hate the game
because it can work. It may not be managed the way we all want it to be, but at the
end of the day, it is who you put in the positions to run the game is what is important.
Mr. TenBruggencate: I think that if you are going to do this, what
you may end up with is a suggestion for a way to amend our current form of
government without getting into trouble with State statute and end up with
something that works a little better than what we have now. At least one hopes that
you would end up with something like that.
Council Chair Rapozo: Any more questions? Thank you, Jan.
Anyone else wishing to testify?
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you, Chair. It is a very interesting
topic that I am sure we will have more due diligence on. I totally agree with you as
to the success of this County Manager system will depend on who this Council and
Mayor should it be adopted, chooses. It is like a football coach. If pick Fred von
Appen or if you pick Nick Savon, you get two (2) totally different outcomes. If pick
COUNCIL MEETING 57 JUNE 17, 2015
Mary Rita Cooke (M.R.C.) Greenwood or Virginia Hinshaw or Evan Dobelle with all
of their accolades in education and experience, and I think you picked the wrong one.
The bottom line is who do we choose and how successful will that person be? That
will bear either success or failure for the County Manager system. I say it can work.
I believe it can work. But when we have the applicants at the salary level that we
end up doing should we do it, will we have the right applicant that can win and not
pick a loser because if we pick a loser, I do not care what system we pick, it is not
going to work, and not to say that this system is working. But is the County Manager
system going to be better? It all depends who the coach is. That is all I have to say
on this. Thank you, Chair.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Councilmember Hooser.
Councilmember Hooser: In response to Mr. TenBruggencate's
comments on the legality of it, I just want to read briefly what the Attorney General
Mark Bennett approved to the request I made when I was in the Senate
February 12, 2010. It says, "Section 46-1.5 of the Hawai`i Revised Statutes provide
that each County shall have power to frame and adopt a Charter for its own
self-government. It shall establish the County Executive Administrative and
legislative structure, an organization including, but not limited to, the method of
appointment or election of officials, their duties and responsibilities and
compensations and the terms of their office." Clearly, that State law says we have a
lot of control. But then it goes on to say "Section 2 of Article 8 has been interpreted
by the Hawai`i Supreme Court as allowing a County to enact any Charter provision
even if it conflicts with statutory provisions." So, even if it conflicts, the Supreme
Court says "The County can enact Charter provision if County is able to demonstrate
first, that the provision relates to the County's structure and organization...
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Councilmember Hooser: ...and second, that it is a matter of local as
opposed to statewide concern." This, to me, says that we do have the power to do this.
It has to be done right, of course, in terms of structure. This is not a definitive opinion,
I do not believe. But it certainly it is good evidence for me to justify moving forward
with this. Are we in the comment phase right now? Is that where we are at?
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes.
Councilmember Hooser: Okay. For me, this is about efficiency in
government and it is about politics in government. A County Manager form does not
by in and of itself, increase efficiency or get politics out of it. But I think it has
tremendous potential to do just that. People will ask me sometimes in terms of
politics about the Mayor's race and why does this person or that person run? I
explained to them that the Mayor during the second term, through patronage, and it
is not a bad thing. It is just the way things work, has a tremendous political machine
behind them. The Mayor directly appoints easily twenty (20) people, if not fifty (50)
or one hundred (100) people, at the end of the day. It is in all of those people's best
interest that the Mayor get re-elected four (4) years later. So, you have all of these
families. You have a built-in political machine. Again, it is not necessarily good or
bad, but the political influence is huge. Mr. Smith asked how this would affect the
homeless. Well, the way it is supposed to affect the homeless, is it is supposed to help
those who have the least amount of political influence, which would be the homeless,
which would be those with the least voice in our community, the low income people,
people who live in communities that do not have the influence, and we all know about
COUNCIL MEETING 58 JUNE 17, 2015
those communities. In theory, and I think much in practice from what I have read,
that the County Manager system does in fact, diminish the political influence and
amount of patronage. For the record, County Councilmembers, all of us, certainly
myself, I know that, have zero (0) patronage and control no direct jobs whatsoever.
When we run, we do not have a patronage machine behind us. Administrators do. I
think it is very promising that we are moving forward on this. Again, I think that we
keep our eye on the prize, which is how do we increase efficiency, how to make
government run better, how do we diminish the political influence on the process. In
terms of the qualifications, I just want to point out that there are degrees at major
universities on County management and how to run County governments. There are
people out there who are worked in other Counties and other Cities who have dealt
with Public Works issues, sewers, water treatment plants, and dealt with politic
bodies who have experience and track records on this that would be considered if this
moved forward for these types of positions. I applaud the Council, Councilmember
Chock, the community for moving keeping this discussion alive and moving forward.
Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you, Councilmember Hooser. Any
other discussion? Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: As we go through this, I get a little excited and
I am glad you brought my name up as being part of the Council because I asked to do
it. Is it cost-effective or not for our County to change to this? I can tell you when I
first got in, I think I got a letters from Glenn folks about a City Manager. I think a
lot of people do not have enough information to even make a decision on what they
want. I think this is a very good opportunity for everybody. For me, I see this
sub-committee as being able to get the information on both sides of the table and
presenting it. People are able to make up their own decision. It is not what I want.
It is not what anybody else wants. It is, here is the information, these are the pros
and conversation of both, and this is what we are presenting. This is what we are
coming up with. I think right now, we do not know what that information is because
I really have not had much information about a City Manager type system. To what
Councilmember Yukimura was saying about how this sub-committee is working, I
have all kinds of notes I put down as far as things we need to look at. Efficiency and
productivity. Which one is better? City Manager, Mayor, separation of powers. I
have neutrality of a City Manager versus a Mayor. Also, Council responsibilities.
With a City Manager, our Council responsibilities are going to change. We are the
ones that hire the County Manager. To say that there is no politics in it, you could
say there might be politics because we are the ones that hires the County Manger.
Also, how does it affect State law, which Jan brought up, County laws and Charter
changes? All of these things that is going to need to take place in order to change the
system is what I want to know. What are the pros and cons, what are the benefits of
doing it, and what we have to do it get there?
I think one of the main things that I want to task Glenn's folks with is I hear
a lot about let us focus on a City Manager. But I want to see what your vision is. I
am asking for help. If you folks can provide more information on the details of what
exactly do you see as a City Manager because I looked it up. There are thousands of
Counties, but of course, all of the Counties are different. I know what I read some, it
said the Council gets to elect who the Department Heads are. But I am not sure if
that is the framework you folks want to work with. I mean, if you folks can come up
with an agreement on it because again, we can probably spend hours and hours on
this is by saying, "What if we change this, what if we tweak this, what if we compare
these?" I would really like information from the public on what exactly is it that we
COUNCIL MEETING 59 JUNE 17, 2015
are looking at as far as a City Manager system? What are the criteria? What are the
duties and responsibilities? What are the changes in Council? I think that would
really help gear us towards the comparison of pros and cons. I am not saying it has
to be exact. But you can say, "Either Council can hire the Heads or they cannot" and
those are the options that we would look at. If we could get a little more direction on
it because for us to go through thousands of different City Manager systems, I think,
we would be spinning our wheels forever, we would have thousands of options, and
we would have a hard time really focusing in on what we really want here on Kaua`i.
Again, it is interesting. It is exciting for me because I get to learn more about what
a City Manager does. I get to learn probably more about the duties the Mayor and
how our government is operating. I really do look forward to it. Again, any help we
can get as far as a framework on exactly what a City Manager system on Kaua`i would
look like, I think, it would be greatly appreciated because I think that is where we
could get stuck on the details forever. It will not do anybody any justice for us to just
start guessing on we think this or that and then we will go on forever trying to figure
out what we are looking at. We know what the Mayor system looks like. We have
what the Mayor system looks like. I am just asking for help on the framework of the
City Manager system looks like. Thanks.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i: I will not repeat. I will just say "ditto" to
everything that Councilmember Kaneshiro just said. I want to thank you, Chair. I
am honored to serve on the sub-committee. I did live and work for ten (10) years in
the City of West Hollywood, which had a City Manager system. So, I am familiar
firsthand, but I think my work on the committee will be more about compiling and
sifting through the information. I am interested to hear from folks like
Mr. TenBruggencate more and perhaps look at, maybe not all of it, everything that is
in the boxes. I do not know how much there are. But to get the sense of what else
might be the challenges and the things that we have to look at besides the State law
and looking forward to the work and working with the community. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Any other discussion? Councilmember
Chock.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you, Chair. I really appreciate the
opportunity to have this discussion. For me, that is what I want to keep the focus on,
is continuing to move this discussion forward in answering some questions because I
think we all agree in this room, that there are things that we can do better and this
is the catalyst for us to have this discussion. For me, I mean, we may find there are
other ways to accomplish what we want. But this is one (1) avenue and we should
look down this avenue as well. Just in the discussion, what came to me is that there
are some key questions that we probably want to focus on. The first is what would
the County Manager system look like in detail that would work best on this island,
on Kaua`i? Then, the pros and cons question with the two (2) systems that are before
us and how they compare. Given whatever we can find in the sub-committee, whether
it be the County Manager system or our current system, how will we continue to
commit to accomplishing the outcomes that we are seeking to change within the
system? Again, thank you for the opportunity to continue this. There are so many
questions. Questions about the legality of it and cost questions. I appreciate some of
the concerns that came up in terms of criteria for manager selection as well as the
human aspect, which I think, has been coming up time and time today. I look forward
to diving deep into this. We will have something to report back soon, I hope. Thank
you, Chair.
COUNCIL MEETING 60 JUNE 17, 2015
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. I think this conversation today has been
valuable and important. The king of Bhutan put forth this philosophy of gross
national happiness. Actually, when I hear Glenn and Ken talking when they talk
about wanting the best for the island, that is kind of what we are looking for. There
were four (4) pillars behind this philosophy of gross national happiness. It was
enlightened economic development, preservation and perpetuation of culture,
protection of the environment, and the fourth one, which most people forget about is
governance; how a community makes decisions about the first three (3). I think that
is what we are talking about. We are talking about governance. What is the best
way and the best system for making decisions on behalf of this island with all of the
pooled resources, and how do we address the community's problems? This is a really
important question. I think the journey in asking the questions and exploring the
potential answers can be very useful. I am grateful to Councilmember Chock for
initiating the issue; for the Chair, for putting it on the agenda; and for Glenn, Walter,
and Ken for continuing to press us to look at the options. I think some of the questions
that we have to ask are what the accountabilities are, who is responsible, what are
the checks and balances against abuse of power, and how do you minimize politics in
hiring of a County Manager because this is a group of people choosing a high-level
manager. That is what the Council does when we choose the County Clerk and the
County Auditor. The recent hirings, I believe, or appointments have been good and
have followed a good process. But I have been on the Council where the County Clerk
has been chosen primarily by politics and have been kept in place by serving the
majority and catering to the majority that keeps him or her in place. It does not
always work to the best interest of the County and the people of the County. The
devil is in details and if we are going to change the system, we need to really look at
things very carefully. It is not just the system that determines whether or not things
work, but it is the system that can either encourage good governance or not. That is
why this question is very important.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present.)
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you, JoAnn and thank you everyone. I
cannot reiterate enough that the Council never heard this issue on the floor. We
never had the opportunity. I mean, the two (2) times it surfaced, it went through
again, the Charter Review Commission, who is appointed by the Mayor, and they
were advised by the County Attorney that was appointed by the Mayor. So, I do not
consider that a really open dialogue. I can tell you in my own personal experiences,
and I cannot remember what year it was, if it was 2009. I was on the Council. Maybe
before then. Maybe it was the first time this surfaced. I, along with many
Administration personnel, went out aggressively opposing the effort saying it was no
good, that we did not want this County Manager system because there had been some
bad cases on the mainland involving County Managers. I did not think that was the
problem. I did not think that the structure was the problem at the time. I still do
not. I think as Councilmember Yukimura talked about, I think if the Mayor used the
current process to select hopefully an incoming Auditor and the process we used to
select our County Clerk, I think a lot of problems would be alleviated. I think if we
put the most qualified people in the Directors positions, I think we would solve a lot
of problems. It is not just the sitting Mayor. It is all of the Mayors. It is not just
Kaua`i, it is all over the Country. It is not so much the structure of government. It
is how we apply the structure and how we put people in positions where they need to
be making tough decisions.
COUNCIL MEETING 61 JUNE 17, 2015
I have to thank former Senator Hooser. I think that title remains. Back in
2010, at the time Representative Mina Morita was requested to do an opinion and
she said she was not even going to address it because the State law was explicit
enough about the Counties. Now, this does not say what she meant, if we could or
we could not. I have to believe that she was explicit enough that we could. But I
think as Councilmember Hooser read earlier, it is very clear that the Supreme Court
has clearly stated, and this is great for the committee members to understand, to
understand, that the Charter trumps any statute if it relates to the structure of the
County's government. I do not want to hear the argument about it is illegal because
the Supreme Court has already ruled, and unless we want to appeal the Hawai`i State
Supreme Court, that is the fact. That is case law. As we move forward, if the
committee wants to validate that or verify it, that is fine. But to simply say that we
cannot do it because of what the statute says, that is not accurate. The Supreme
Court has already ruled. In fact, that ruling was in 1978, prior to the two (2) Salary
Commission visits of this issue and County Attorneys on two (2) Salary Commissions
did not recognize that Supreme Court decision. It is a new day. Again, this is really
about fact-finding and data-gathering. The committee members, whatever position
they have in their head at the time, needs to put that aside and move forward with
the sincere desire to get the information and make some informative
recommendations to the Council. Now, this will include numerous meetings in the
community where I encourage the communities to get involved. But do not just come
and say, "Because the County Manager works." If you are coming to the table, as
Councilmember Kaneshiro said, he wants to hear from you. He want to know what
aspects of the system that you are familiar with worked wherever you are talking
about because, I think, we can all agree on one (1) thing, West Hollywood, Santa
Monica, Santa Clara, or wherever you folks are coming from, it is not Kaua`i. We
have some issues that are unique to Kaua`i that are not necessarily applicable or
would benefit from a system that is being used on the mainland. I think Mr. Smith
brings up the homeless. We have a different situation here and we need to address
all of those. I look forward to the next meeting when we have the discussion on the
actual formation of the committee and looking forward to some great dialogue. Yes?
Councilmember Yukimura: I just want to say in terms of the timeframe,
I am looking at Ken Taylor's thing about three (3) months. I think you are going to
need six (6) months at least, especially if you want to get a lot of input from the
community. But once you set up or envision the system of the County Manager that
you are going to compare and then if we decide that it is a desirable one, we will need
to hire an attorney or somebody to develop all of the actual wording changes to the
Charter and also then look at the statutory changes that may be, if not required, at
least desirable, to make the system work. I just want to project that is going to be
part of the work that needs to be done.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, three (3) months, I think, no. That is not
going to happen. Monthly reports as well. Again, the goal in six (6) months is to come
to the Council to report with some recommendations. Should the recommendation be
to move forward, then I think the work begins, Councilmember Yukimura, like you
just talked about. Then, it is a matter of how is this thing going to be drafted? How
is it going to be written? There are a lot of references in the HRS and Charter that
pertain to the Mayor. There are a lot of references in the County Code that pertain
to the Mayor. All of those is going to have to be reviewed. Three (3) months, there is
no way we can even get this. Remember, for us to meet, it is every two (2) weeks.
The Committee can meet as often as they need to. But sending a letter off to an
agency for a response, that in and of itself takes a while. I think three (3) months is
pretty...and then the problem is if we require three (3) months, I can tell what you
COUNCIL MEETING 62 JUNE 17, 2015
the recommendation is going to be. We did not have enough time to explore all the
details. So, we cannot make a recommendation at this time. That is not what I want
to say. With that, the motion is made.
The motion to receive C 2015-180 for the record was then put, and unanimously
carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. With that, we will take a
lunch break. I know we have a presentation at 1:30 p.m. It is 12:35 p.m. Let us try
to be back before 1:45 p.m.
There being no objections, the Council recessed at 12:35 p.m.
The meeting was called back to order at 2:07 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Next item, please.
C 2015-181 Communication (06/05/2015) from Council Chair Rapozo,
requesting Council consideration, for the public release of the following County
Attorney opinion relating to Bill No. 2589 (Recovery of Rescue Expenses):
• County Attorney Opinion dated May 27, 2015
(Tracking No. 15-0441)
JADE K. FOUNTAIN-TANIGAWA, County Clerk: We have two (2)
registered speakers.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Thank you. For the public's
information, the request did make it over to the Attorney and the Attorney did
respond as far as no objection. However, there are Councilmembers that want to be
briefed. We are going to defer this at the end of the discussion until the next meeting
so we can have an Executive Session so the members can be briefed, and then we will
take action on the matter. If you could call the first speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The first speaker is Lonnie Sykos, followed by
Alice Parker.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
Mr. Sykos: For the record, Lonnie Sykos. Thank you,
Mel, for that information. I came today to lend public support for the opinion being
released. I understand Council's need to be briefed. So, I look forward to the opinion
at the next meeting and I will save the rest of my comments for then. Thank you very
much.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much. I am assuming that
Councilmembers are still interested in that briefing. Okay. Next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Next speaker is Alice Parker.
ALICE PARKER: Hi, Alice Parker, for the record. I echo
Lonnie's sentiments. I do support the County recovering expenses for people who
unthinkingly or just using no commonsense go out and hike. Kaua`i is not an
amusement park. It is real life. I feel with Darwin, survival of the fittest, if they are
COUNCIL MEETING 63 JUNE 17, 2015
so dumb they are going to go out when a tornado is coming or a hurricane, maybe
they should not come back. That is fierce, but come on. We taxpayers, should not
have to pick up the expense for stupidity, ignorance, or gain on the tour companies
who do these trips despite the bad weather that is coming. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else wishing to testify?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Chair, we have Matthew Bernabe.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay.
Mr. Bernabe: Matt Bernabe. I understand. I just want to
support it. I am here to support you folks. When taking this into consideration when
you folks run down this avenue, go ahead and look how many County trails versus
State trails are we rescuing people from? Sleeping Giant, there is at least ten (10) a
year. That is a State trail. Na Pali, hundreds at a time. Let me just laugh into the
mic for the record. Okay that is Na Pali right there. The State should be doing their
diligence on not promoting it as a hiking trail for one, excluding Sleeping Giant. Na
Pali is a hunting district, and litigating the costs. But not only that, responding to
the incident. They have a DLNR agency and when there is one hundred
twenty-one (121) people behind Kalalau Trail, a DLNR agency should be going
crossing that river, a helicopter going in, going with Meal, Ready-to-Eat (MRE) or
whatever it is, start a fire, first aid, and a DLNR agent should be sleeping in there.
That is a State thing. We should not be picking up the price for in that. I support
safeguarding ourselves. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Amen. Anybody else wishing to testify?
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Any discussion before I entertain the motion
to defer? If not, can I get a motion to defer?
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to defer C 2015-181, seconded by
Councilmember Kagawa, and unanimously carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item, please.
CLAIM:
C 2015-182 Communication (06/03/2015) from the County Clerk,
transmitting a claim filed against the County of Kaua`i by Advantage Rent A Car, for
damage to their vehicle, pursuant to Section 23.06, Charter of the County of Kauai:
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to refer C 2015-182 to the County Attorney's Office for
disposition and/or report back to the Council, seconded by Councilmember Kagawa.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. This is another claim involving a
bus. I would like a briefing in Executive Session on this claim. Any discussion?
Anybody in the audience wishing to testify?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
COUNCIL MEETING 64 JUNE 17, 2015
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
The motion to refer C 2015-182 to the County Attorney's Office for disposition
and/or report back to the Council was then put, and unanimously carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item, please.
COMMITTEE REPORT:
COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE:
A report (No. CR-COW 2015-06) submitted by the Committee of the Whole,
recommending that the following be Approved as Amended on second and final
reading:
"Bill No. 2588 — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE APPROVING A
COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT FOR BARGAINING UNITS 2, 3,
AND 4 BETWEEN JULY 1, 2015 AND JUNE 30, 2017,"
Councilmember Kuali`i moved for approval of the report, seconded by
Councilmember Kagawa.
Council Chair Rapozo: Any discussion? Public testimony?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
Council Chair Rapozo: Please, Mr. Bernabe.
Mr. Bernabe: Matt Bernabe. I am just ignorant on the
issue, basically, and did not want you folks to go blowing through. I do not
understand what Units 2, 3, and 4 are. I am into not quite sure what this is referring
to. Is there any way I could get a paper on it or something? I just basically wanted
to ask.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes. Sure. We can make that available for
you.
Mr. Bernabe: Okay. Sorry.
Council Chair Rapozo: This is a Committee Report. So, this is the
activity that happened last week at the Committee Meeting. So, these are just the
minutes of that meeting. But we can provide that for you.
Mr. Bernabe: Okay. Thank you very much. Sorry for
slowing down the process.
Council Chair Rapozo: No problem. The Bill is coming up for Second
Reading later today. If you want to check with our staff to get you the information
before. Okay. Just check with our staff. Any further discussion?
COUNCIL MEETING 65 JUNE 17, 2015
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Any further discussion?
The motion for approval of the report was then put, and unanimously carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: Next item, please.
RESOLUTIONS:
Resolution No. 2015-46 — RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING A MAXIMUM
SPEED LIMIT OF THIRTY MILES PER HOUR (30 MPH)AND FORTY MILES PER
HOUR (40 MPH) ALONG ALA KALANIKAUMAKA, KOLOA DISTRICT, COUNTY
OF KAUAI, STATE OF HAWAII: Councilmember Kuali`i moved for adoption of
Resolution No. 2015-46, seconded by Councilmember Kagawa.
Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone in the audience wishing to testify?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
Mr. Bernabe: Matthew Bernabe for the record. I will be
brief on this. I am not quite sure where this is even on the map. I do not even know
where the adjacent streets are and what not. But I will say this, on the east side, we
lowered our speed limits. I just recently went to a State traffic meeting that was held
at Kapa'a Library, and I did not see any police officers there or any representatives
from the County there. I will say this, the State expert told us the problem is that
we are not moving fast enough as a flow. Two (2) things. One, the speed limit is low.
That came out of his mouth. The second thing is that people at the stoplight, which
is not in your folks control, but they are not fast enough off the draw. So, they are
not getting out. One of the things that is within your control is the speed limits. The
mentality that we all live on an island, I pointed out that meeting that there are
two (2) types of people live on the island; the kind who have to get to work and have
three (3) jobs or they lose their life, have kids, and all of that; and there is the other
people who are retired or trust fund or something, and they are in a very relaxed
mode, tourists or people, who live here. There are two (2) different types of drivers
on the road. From the State expert's mouth, he said, "Lowering the speed limits
definitely congested the east side." That is all I have to say before you folks move
forward with this.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Ms. Parker. I am sorry, Felicia?
Councilmember Kagawa: Can we have public testimony after the
County Engineer's explain? I think that might shorten some of the public's testimony
now and they can come back later. I think that would be helpful.
Ms. Parker: Do you want me to amscray or stay?
Council Chair Rapozo: Do you have a question?
Ms. Parker: No. I think it is terrific.
COUNCIL MEETING 66 JUNE 17, 2015
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay.
Ms. Parker: I know where the road is, and they speed like
mad. I am going to make a right turn down there to get to the Koloa District, and I
am afraid to move. Thank you.
Councilmember Kagawa: Mr. Chair, that is why I think she is
misunderstanding because it is actually to increase the speed limit on this road.
Council Chair Rapozo: Right.
Councilmember Kagawa: If we can, let us have a brief presentation with
maps, if possible.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Mr. Dill.
Councilmember Kagawa: Or even a verbal description is fine, as along
as everybody knows this is the western Po`ipu bypass.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes. The speed limit is going up.
Councilmember Kagawa: The speed limit is going up for a good reason.
MICHAEL MOULE, Chief of Engineering Division: For the record, my
name is Michael Moule. I am the Chief of the Engineering Division here with the
County and Public Works. Larry Dill is with me with as Public Works Director and
County Engineer. I am going to give a brief report in summary of where we are with
this today. This came as a request to us from Council to look at raising of speed limit
on Ala Kalanikaumaka. It is currently posted at 25 MPH, but there are no current
Council Resolutions as to what the speed limit should be. The posting was done after
the road was built and Ala Kalanikaumaka, just to make sure we are clear, is the
western bypass road that connects Koloa Road to the roundabout in Po`ipu. That
entire length is currently posted at 25 MPH. Actually, I am sorry. Most of it is posted
at 25 MPH. Approaching the roundabout in the southbound or makai bound
direction, it is actually posted at fifteen miles per hour (15 MPH). You can see now
on the screen, the map of the area. I have a pointer here. This is the road here, Ala
Kalanikaumaka, previously known and sometimes still known as the western bypass
road.
If I could move it up just a little bit? There we go. You can see we have two (2)
different patterns here. I will talk about that in a moment. It connects from Koloa
Road to the roundabout. It was built by Kukui`ula Development Corporation as part
of their road network for their development to work, essentially. It was a requirement
of that development. They produced the plans, did all of the designs, constructed this,
and we have accepted this road. The speed limits were posted based on the design
plans that were shown, and they showed 25 MPH. There was never a move to go to
Council to create a 25 MPH speed limit, but that is what was posted based on the
plans that showed 25 MPH to be the posted speed limits. When we got the request
from Council, we took a look at several things. We did traffic counts to see how fast
people were actually going out there and we looked at the physical geometric design
of the road. You can see there are a number of curves on the road there. It is laid out
roughly like that in reality. We looked at those curves and checked what their design
speeds for those horizontal curves as well as the vertical curves, when the road goes
up and down. There are vertical curves, and those have a design speed that is
COUNCIL MEETING 67 JUNE 17, 2015
associated with each rate of curvature for the vertical curve as well as the horizontal
curve. We also looked at the presence of driveways and access points. There is only
one (1) public street, as you heard this morning, I think, when you accepted the
communication from the County Engineer, which is Ala Kukui`ula Road. It is
currently not public. It will be. That will become a public road. It is currently still
owned and maintained by Kukui`ula. But that is slated to be a County road in the
future once they are complete with their project or at least enough of that road to
turn it over to us. There are several driveways. They are not significant driveways.
This is a water tank access. I think, that must be the water tank there, that little dot
perhaps or maybe that is still a ditch. I am not sure. But in that vicinity there is a
water tank. There is also another access point to a field there. There is an access
point right there, that goes to the offices where Kukui`ula and many of their
developers have their offices. There is a few access points down here at the bottom
for the Kukui`ula shops as well as future access points, I think, to future residential
development, I believe, is planned down there as with well. We looked at all of those
factors and determined that the speed limit could be higher than 25 MPH as
requested from Council. We determined in the area shaded in black here, to raise the
speed limit to 40 MPH. This pattern here, two (2) dashes lines on each side or a line
on each side that is dashed, to be 30 MPH. That was based on several things, the
actual traffic counts and then mainly the horizontal curvature was the primary
factor. The curves down here, this curve here and that curve here, have a design
speed of about 30 MPH. We did not feel comfortable going higher than 30 MPH on
the posted speed. We did find, however, I will just look at my analysis here. We did
find that actual travel speeds, the measure we typically like to use is what is called
the "85th percentile speed." It is a speed at which eighty-five percent (85%) of the
traffic is traveling at that speed and slower. In other words, fifteen percent (15%) of
the traffic is traveling faster than that. In traffic engineering, generally speak, the
goal whether it be through road design or enforcement or the combination of those
things, is to have your 85th percentile speed be roughly equipment to this posted speed
limit because we recognize that eighty-five percent (85%) of the people are reasonable
in how they travel on our roadways and that there is going to be those speeders that
will go faster than that. We do not want to set the speed limit to be a lot lower than
people are actually traveling because that means we are making most of the public
scofflaw essentially, of we do that. So, either by raising the speed limit or by changing
the design of the road or the way that the road feels and looks to bring the speeds
down, we try to match those together. We found the 85th percentile speeds ranging
from 36 miles per hour (36 MPH) in the south bound direction near the southern end
down by the roundabout and thirty-nine miles per hour (39 MPH) in the northbound
direction, up to forty-two and a half miles per hour (42.5 MPH) roughly up near Koloa
Road. It ranged in this range from about 35 MPH to about forty-three miles per hour
(43 MPH) or so. Due to those numbers and trying to set the speed limit roughly
within five miles per hour (5 MPH) of the actual speeds out there and the actual
curvature, we felt that these two (2) speeds were appropriate for this road. I feel
comfortable that they are not too high nor too low for this particular road here. It is
rural, as you heard this morning. It does not have a lot of access and development
along it. That is really the end of my brief report.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you, Council Chair. Thank you for
your explanation and your maps. It is very crystal clear for me least, and your
explanations are awesome. I just wanted to know, what was the reason why
Councilmember Yukimura had asked you folks to consider it? Was it that we were
getting complaints it was too slow?
COUNCIL MEETING 68 JUNE 17, 2015
Mr. Moule: I do not recall. I do not have that with me, the
request itself.
Councilmember Yukimura: I will answer that. Actually, a couple of
people approached me and said, "This is crazy. Can you please see if something can
be done?" I just followed the procedure, which is to ask for an analysis. Thank you
to Public Works and Engineering for doing such analysis.
Councilmember Kagawa: That is all I wanted to know. Thank you.
Mr. Moule: Just driving it myself, I observed that it
seemed way too low as well.
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you.
Mr. Moule: When we got the request, we said, "Yes, we
think this makes sense. Let us study it and see what it should be."
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you to all of you as well.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you, Chair. I am supportive. I was
wondering, do we have any measures to monitor once we make a change in the speed
limits? We enact it, but do we still have make sure it is working as we had planned
it?
Mr. Moule: That is a good question. We are just
embarking really, on creating a true traffic count program here within the County.
In the past, we have taken counts upon requests for various reasons, if there is say
change in speed limit like this one for example, or we do counts when we do our bridge
structural load rating. How heavy of a vehicle can go on our older bridges, for
example. We want to know how much traffic is there. We do counts for that.
Sometimes we do counts with respect to a development review. They might give us
counts. We might take counts as part of that. But largely, it is driven by complaints
in the past. One thing we are trying to do now, in fact, I was just meeting with my
staff before I walked over here about that, is trying to compile the old data we have.
In addition, to the ongoing basis in the future, taking regular counts on most of our
major roadways around the island because we need that information fairly
frequently. If we get a request for a development to come in, we need to know how
close are we to nearing capacity on planning level just looking at the counts. There
might need to be some changes made. That access point, is it going to be a problem
for congestion or safety when someone connects there with a driveway? We can get
a general sense just by looking at an average daily traffic count along with the speed.
So, when we do counts, we collect all of that information. We had a meeting last week
or the week before with Planning and also Information Technology (IT) about how to
track that data within our Geographic Information System (GIS) as well. We are
embarking essentially, on a program like most cities and Counties have honestly, on
an ongoing basis to take counts. So, we will be able to track things over time number
one. Number two, I know what our counts and speeds are roughly on all through
roads, essentially, in the County. We would not count local residential streets except
upon request going forward, and we will keep those in database. What I expect to
happen, to answer your question, Councilmember Chock, is that on these major roads,
once we have counted them all, I would like to set up a system to count them every
COUNCIL MEETING 69 JUNE 17, 2015
five (5) years at a minimum. Different jurisdictions do it in different ways. In
California, for example, every jurisdiction is required to do an engineering and traffic
study to identify how it relates to the speed every five (5) years. If they want to be
able to enforce their speed limits, they have to do that per State law. That is not a
requirement in Hawai`i, but five (5) years is kind of the number that I am thinking of
at this point. Once we see how many counts that will require and how much staff to
do it, we can get a sense of what we can actually do. That is sort of the long answer
to your question.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: I really want to thank you for your work and
also ask, did something like this not happen when the four (4) lanes opened up
between here, Lihu`e town, and Kaua`i Community College (KCC) because I
remember them posting it at 25 MPH and everyone was, like, "how can we stay at
this level?" It later on it was changed quite quickly, like about two (2) or three (3)
weeks after it opened to forty miles per hour (40 MPH).
Mr. Moule: I am not sure. I actually think that segment
is posted at thirty-five miles per hour (35 MPH).
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. Maybe you were not here.
Mr. Moule: I was not here at that time.
Councilmember Yukimura: Maybe it is 35 MPH?
Mr. Moule: One of the things we have not done is sort of
an ongoing basis to look at past speed limits to see if they should be updated at any
given time. That is something we may do as part of this count program, be able to
come to you with recommendations to change speed limits, higher or lower, depending
on what is appropriate for the time. That is all to say at this point.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. I do believe though, that the 40 MPH
limit between Lihu`e and Kapa'a has appeared to reduce the number of traffic
accidents on that highway. You are right, that gathering data and making these
judgments are important, one way or the other. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Any other questions? I have
one (1). Your communication says that I guess, your proposal has been reviewed by
the Fire Chief, Police Chief, and Planning Department with no comments.
Mr. Moule: That is correct. They all said, "We have no
problem with this change."
Council Chair Rapozo: So, that is different from "no comment." "No
comment" means no comment versus supporting or not supporting it. I am real
critical with the police because they have to monitor these things. They did respond?
Mr. Moule: They did respond. There were comments, but
we have actually double-checked. If we did not receive a comment from them, we
said, "Please let us know if you have any concerns" and they replied with, "We have
no concerns" rather than "no comment."
COUNCIL MEETING 70 JUNE 17, 2015
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay.
Mr. Moule: To that point, I think this morning you asked
about whether there were any concerns with the conditions of approval for the
Kukui`ula development. We looked that up in the meantime and we did review the
Ordinance for that and indeed, there were no requirements for the speed to be set at
a certain level.
Council Chair Rapozo: The other question, it is going to be 30 MPH
to the roundabout?
Mr. Moule: From the roundabout up to just past Ala
Kukui`ula.
Council Chair Rapozo: What is the speed limit at the roundabout? Is
that posted as a separate one because 35 MPH going through that roundabout is
probably not very safe?
Mr. Moule: Right. The thing about roundabouts, this is
getting off-topic here.
Council Chair Rapozo: It is not off-topic because this map shows it
35 MPH to that roundabout and I am concerned with that.
Mr. Moule: It is 30 MPH to the roundabout.
Council Chair Rapozo: 30 MPH? Even 30 MPH. That is why I am
asking. Is there another speed limit for the roundabout?
Mr. Moule: There is not. On this island, it appears that
most roundabouts, and many intersections, are assigned with speed limits. That is
actually not the general practice nationally for traffic engineering. Roundabouts, if
anything, should be signed for advisory speed. That was sort of an older document
about roundabouts that was recommended. In the current Federal Highway
Administration document about roundabouts, they actually recommend not even
doing that. Roundabouts themselves are self-enforcing with respect to speed. You
cannot physically get through faster than the rough design speed by more than a few
miles per hour. Generally speaking, it is actually not recommended to post speed
limits or even advisory speeds now at or through roundabouts.
Council Chair Rapozo: I guess for me, because I am thinking for the
idiot that does not self-police his speed to a roundabout and he goes 30 MPH,
thirty-two miles per hour (32 MPH), he does not make the roundabouts, and then he
sues us because we have a posted speed limit of 30 MPH and he went 30 MPH. I do
not know what the roundabouts are rated at. If I remember correctly, the design of
the roundabout is designed for specific speeds, correct?
Mr. Moule: Yes. They are designed for about 15 MPH to
twenty miles per hour (20 MPH) typically, for the through movement.
Council Chair Rapozo: That one. What about the one here?
Mr. Moule: The one?
COUNCIL MEETING 71 JUNE 17, 2015
Council Chair Rapozo: In Po`ipu?
Mr. Moule: The one in Po`ipu, I have not tested the
curvature of that roundabout. I have driven it. It cannot be driven without getting
on two (2) wheels at faster than 20 MPH, twenty-two miles per hour (22 MPH).
Council Chair Rapozo: Right. I am telling you. I am just saying my
concern is, so it is our policy not to put a speed limit on a roundabout?
Mr. Moule: Not a posted speed limit. We have, I am
trying to remember which ones. The roundabout being built right now over here on
Umi Street and Hardy Street and the roundabout that was built recently over in Puhi
have advisory speeds, not posted speeds.
Council Chair Rapozo: So, there is no speed limit on the roundabout?
Mr. Moule: Just whatever the normal speed limit is for
the...
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Maybe it is the cop in me thinking. The
cop zaps a car at 30 MPH in a roundabout, what is he or she going to do? You have
to have a speed limit.
Mr. Moule: I mean, if the person is going 30 MPH coming
in, they will probably crash if you clock them that fast.
Council Chair Rapozo: Right. But it there is no opportunity for that
person to be cited for the violation, I guess, is what I want to say. I do not want the
County left holding the bag when some knucklehead crashes on the...
Mr. Moule: I think whether or not we post an advisory
speed, roundabouts are accompanied by several warning signs that warn about the
circular intersection, and that is advising people that this is coming up and you
should go slower. We could post advisory speeds at roundabouts. But I still would
not recommend that we reduce the speed through every roundabout or intersection
of any type, I would say. It is just not something that is typically done. It has been
done here. I have seen it done in some of the roundabouts here on Kaua`i, but I do
not recommend that we do that in the future to be consistent with what the National
standards are on these things.
Council Chair Rapozo: Alright. Councilmember Hooser.
Councilmember Hooser: Just briefly following it up because as I think
about it, it seems to make sense. You go from 30 MPH to a yield sign and it does not
say "reduce speed ahead" or "go from 30 MPH to fifteen miles per hour (15 MPH)" or
you just go from 30 MPH to what could be a stop. That is not typical to say "reduce
speed ahead"?
Mr. Moule: Just like any intersection, you have a stop
ahead sign. Say for example, you have a traffic signal. We will use that highway
since that is Hawai`i Department of Transportation (HDOT) and they also follow the
same Federal standards. You are approaching one of the signals in Puhi on the
highway that Councilmember Yukimura just talked about that is posted 35 MPH of
40 MPH, one of those two (2) speeds, and there is no speed limit that says "go twenty
COUNCIL MEETING 72 JUNE 17, 2015
miles per hour (20 MPH) as you approach. Than the light suddenly turns red, you
have to stop. That is normal. You would typically provide...you might, actually.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Mr. Moule: It is not even required, but you might. If the
signal because of a curve or something, you might provide a sign that warns that
there is a signal ahead. If it is very visible, you would not bother with that
necessarily, that there is a signal. At a roundabout, you would usually have a sign
that warns that of the circular intersection, the roundabout ahead. Right now, most
of our roundabouts are signed with additional warning signs that warn of that
condition, and that is what is typically done and is the official recommended way of
letting motorists know that there is something changing up ahead that they should
slow down for. From a liability perspective, of course as always, people can sue in
this Country whenever they want. But I think we are in a good position from a
liability point of view as long as we are following the National standards and
manuals, which is what we are recommending here.
Councilmember Hooser: Okay. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Any other questions? If not, thank you very
much. Is there anyone in the audience wishing to testify now?
Mr. Bernabe: Matt Bernabe, for the record. In lieu of the
facts of this particular case, I support it. It is not out-of-bounds. I know that road. I
drive it. Just for a suggestion, maybe they can put in the roundabout just paint
15 MPH. I do not know. I was just thinking that. But I support this.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Anyone else? Thank you.
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Further discussion? Councilmember
Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. I want to thank Public Works and
Michael Moule for doing the analysis. I also want to acknowledge Meredith Fisher
who was here earlier this morning.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present.)
Councilmember Yukimura: She is an example of a citizen who has spoken
up about something that did not seem to work. As Mr. Moule pointed out, if we kept
it at that low speed, eighty-five percent (85%) of the people would be violating the
speed limit. As long as we are not jeopardizing safety, I think this is a logical thing
to do. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Any other comments? My concern is that area
is used by a lot of pedestrians. There is the pedestrian walkway right there and I
guess I am concerned that we did not get any input from the Police Department.
40 MPH is quick. That is fast. When you are right alongside a walking path, that is
concerning for me. But I am assuming that you folks took a look at that. 40 MPH is
what is on Kuhio Highway by the golf course. That is the quick. I am not going to
COUNCIL MEETING 73 JUNE 17, 2015
hold up the process because I can count. But these types of Resolutions come up one
day. People will hear about this now after it is done. We really did not have much
community input because like most people, even you folks who follow Council, did not
understand what this was about. So, that is a concern of mine. I would much rather
have had that opportunity to the Koloa-Po`ipu community put some input into this
because I am concerned. Like I said, 40 MPH is a big difference from 15 MPH and
30 MPH or twenty miles per hour (20 MPH). But the experts have spoken.
Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: For me, my mom walks that thing every day,
I think. She walks on the sidewalk. As I drive on that road, there is a big green...I
do not know what you call it. A green strip, and then you have a sidewalk over there.
The road is really big, too. I do feel comfortable that this is a reasonable speed limit.
I have driven it. I have driven it at twenty-five (25) miles per hour. I do not know
how long it takes me to get from down that whole thing. It is pretty long. I am sure
if people have problems with it, they will let us know. I am sure if my mom has
problems with it, she will let me know right away. But she does walk on it almost
every day. I am comfortable with the speed limit.
Council Chair Rapozo: Roll call.
The motion for adoption of Resolution No. 2015-46 was then put, and carried
by the following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Chock, Hooser, Kagawa, Kaneshiro,
Kuali`i, Yukimura, Rapozo TOTAL — 7,
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Seven (7) ayes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Next item, please.
Resolution No. 2015-47 — RESOLUTION CONFIRMING MAYORAL
APPOINTMENT TO THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION (Merrilee M. Ako):
Councilmember Kagawa moved for adoption of Resolution No. 2015-47, seconded by
Councilmember Kuali`i.
Council Chair Rapozo: Discussion? Public testimony?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Roll call.
COUNCIL MEETING 74 JUNE 17, 2015
The motion for adoption of Resolution No. 2015-47 was then put, and carried
by the following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Chock, Hooser, Kagawa, Kaneshiro,
Kuali`i, Yukimura, Rapozo TOTAL— 7,
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Seven (7) ayes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Next item.
Resolution No. 2015-48 — RESOLUTION CONFIRMING MAYORAL
APPOINTMENT TO THE FIRE COMMISSION (Michael T. Martinez):
Councilmember Kuali`i moved for adoption of Resolution No. 2015-48, seconded by
Councilmember Yukimura.
Council Chair Rapozo: Any discussion? Any public testimony?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Roll call, please.
The motion for adoption of Resolution No. 2015-48 was then put, and carried
by the following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Chock, Hooser, Kagawa, Kaneshiro,
Kuali`i, Yukimura, Rapozo TOTAL — 7,
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Seven (7) ayes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Next item, please.
BILL FOR FIRST READING:
Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2590) — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE TO AMEND
CHAPTER 22, KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED, BY REPEALING
ARTICLE 25, RELATING TO BARKING DOGS
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Council Chair, we have one (1) registered
speaker.
Councilmember Kagawa moved for passage of Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2590),
on first reading, that it be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be
scheduled for July 15, 2015, and referred to the Committee of the Whole,
seconded by Councilmember Kuali`i.
COUNCIL MEETING 75 JUNE 17, 2015
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
Council Chair Rapozo: Who is the first speaker?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The first registered speaker is Alice Parker.
Ms. Parker: Alice Parker, for the record. Please, please do
not repeal the Barking Dog Ordinance. I guess it is onerous to enforce. But there are
people who just do not care about their animals and dogs bark on and on and on.
Please, reconsider. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is that it? Anybody else?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Matthew Bernabe.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you.
Mr. Bernabe: Matt Bernabe. I own dogs and I know the
difference between a bad dog owner, a good dog owner, and a dog who barks doing
their job. I have my motorbikes, I have my fishing poles and reels, generators, and
equipment. My dogs are working dogs and I sympathize. Even some of my neighbors
have dogs that I do not feel are not doing a job and they bark. But at the end of the
day, I am born and raised here and I do not know. Part of my cultural upbringing is
do you know what? That is just how it is when it comes to dogs. I am grumbling
about chickens. I am not grumbling about cows. I have some neighbors that has
some dogs. One of the, I call it a "Chupacabra" or whatever that Mexican creature is.
It does not even sound like a dog. I do not know and it is not bad owners in this case.
This one is just a little "shu-shu" dog. It just yaps. I understand that there are
abusive owners in the sense that they just let it go on and on with no attention and
what not. I do not know the mechanism. But I also am not affected by the current
law is either. I am just saying that this is a tricky one and I do not really know how
to vote on this. I think culturally, we have to let some dogs bark. Now, if it is abusive,
there should be a mechanism. Call the Kaua`i Humane Society. There has to be
mechanism if someone is just leaving a dog in the hot sun unattended. Other States
have a unit that goes in and checks on home situations. Just putting a unilateral law
of dogs, I am not quite sure of the language. I would have to be advised. I am not
affected by this, but I still feel that the ones that do have dogs working, it has be kept
in the picture. That is all.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next register speaker is Felicia Cowden.
Ms. Cowden: Felicia Cowden, for the record. I would like to
see the Barking Dogs Ordinance at least amended to make it be much less severe. I
think ten (10) minutes of barking, if there is something going on that is agitating
them, and I liked the word "working dogs." A lot of people have dogs just so they
protect their property and keep people away. Kaua`i is rural by nature. Hunting
dogs are part of our culture. I moved into a neighborhood where I am near three (3)
packs of hunting dogs. I just choose not to let it bother me. I can handle. We have
these neighborhood developments that have really heavy Covenants, Conditions &
Restrictions (CC&Rs), places like Princeville, and people who cannot cope with other
COUNCIL MEETING 76 JUNE 17, 2015
animals. I think they are ought to choose places like that to live. There can be out of
control barking and that is something that, I think, something certainly less stringent
than simply ten (10) minutes of barking. What can happen is you can have a really
ultra-sensitive person who can basically diminish the quality of life in the whole
neighborhood for anybody who happens to have an animal. I would be fine without a
barking dog rule. But I think people are more sensitive than I am. But what we have
is too severe, is my opinion. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Anyone else? You have a
question?
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. May I? What is the evidence that you
think it is too severe?
Ms. Cowden: It is ten (10) minutes, right? That is the
barking rule.
Councilmember Yukimura: Incessantly.
Ms. Cowden: Incessantly barking for ten (10) minutes. So,
what could cause that is a person who should not be there, something is agitating it.
It is not hard to bark incessantly.
Councilmember Yukimura: That is a valid defense under the law. If it can
be shown there is provocation, which could be a stranger on the lot or something, it
is a defense against it.
Ms. Cowden: I happen to live in a community where
sometimes there are people that really go after anybody with a dog. I will not name
names, but that happens. I think ten (10) minutes is too short.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Ms. Parker.
Ms. Parker: Alice Parker. How about twenty (20) minutes
because my friends and I went out to Koyasan Shingon Mission and we were waiting
for the paratransit out on Menehune Road. The bus was supposed to be there at
9:10 a.m. and it did not come until 9:20 a.m. There was a neighborhood dog that was
barking the whole time. The dog was right because we were strangers and we were
nearby. But the owners never checked it. I just felt sorry for the dog. I think it is
dogs that seem to have no reason to bark. I know that I adopted two (2) dogs from
the Kaua`i Humane Society sequentially. The first one did not bark much. The
second one, terrier dachshund mix. Yes, she was pretty yappy. But I had to use a
shock collar on her and then I used a water squirter, which worked. Now she has
learned. She can go "whoof' and there are people who are walking around, fine. Then
if she keeps on going, I go "grr" so she will stand there growling, which is fine. It is
not as loud for my neighbors. Maybe move it up to twenty (20) minutes because ten
(10) minutes is not bad and there is a reason. I am talking about needless reasons or
bored dogs or dogs who are out in the sun or have no water or have horrible conditions
that they are complaining about. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Mr. Bernabe, second time.
COUNCIL MEETING 77 JUNE 17, 2015
Mr. Bernabe: Matt Bernabe, for the record. I agree with
both of these ladies that just testified. I really like what Felicia said. I happen to live
in a neighborhood that does not have that problem. I am just lucky. Wailua Houselots
is really good. But to the lady before me, some of those things that she mentioned
can be called to the Kaua`i Humane Society as inhumane treatment of an animal.
There is a mechanism without having...and to the point that if somebody does, and
by the way, the owners may not be home. Have you ever thought about that? I mean,
they may not be home and they are barking at you because you are out front. I have
people that I know who it is because every day they walk at the same time in front of
my house and the dogs have a unique bark. But what I am trying to say is that there
are mechanisms for abused and neglected animals, and once you put this into
language, it gives somebody the opportunity to harass. I do not have it. But it just
obviously it is been here. It is a lot harder to go deal with it once you are engaged
with that. It takes a lot of your time to go clarify. Yes, you proved that you can show,
oh, yes, my dog was barking at something. But the proof of burden is on you, right?
Now you have to go out of your time and prove that you did not do something wrong.
No. Repeal this. I have made up my mind. I support all of this. At first, I was caught
in the Catch-22 because I know there are those issues out there. But there is a
mechanism for abused animals, even neglect is a form of abuse. I support repealing
it or at least softening it. I like what Felicia said. That is all.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you.
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: First of all, I am going to start by praising
Councilmember Yukimura for being bold and trying this out last year. Like
Councilmember Hooser said in his final message on final approval that he was
involved in this fifteen (15) or sixteen (16) years ago, and something needs to be done
on this. There are some incessant barking. I can just picture those where they cage
their animals, they do not run around, they are barking because they are hungry, and
they are barking because they went to get out of cage. This barking dog law right
now, what it is doing is creating a lot of animosity, fighting, filing, and citations
among neighbors that really is not the purpose of what the Council had supported a
year ago. I think the Council had supported trying to tackle the problems that are
going on that should not be going on. What this barking dog law has done is it has
opened it up for just neighborly bickering that should not be taking place. I have
two (2) people that have become constituents, I guess, because they knew that I voted
against the barking dog law. I told them, they wanted me to repeal it about six (6),
months ago, and thanks to Aida, who has been working with staff and me. I told
them I cannot go and try and repeal this law until I see some of these case goes to the
end and how the judges rule because that is the final hammer; how the courts act the
citations are dealt out, they go to court, and what will the Judges do? I can imagine
the Judges are full on their plate and do not want to hear barking dog fights in their
courtroom. It is happening, and people are spending money defending themselves,
and they are being found innocent. It is not to say that the law was a bad one. We
relied on the Kaua`i Humane Society. They came up, they gave us their honest truth.
They thought that if you pass this barking dog law, we can help solve some of these
issues. But without a dog law, we cannot go and try and work with both parties. I
understand that. But at the end of the day, I think right now, we are seeing a lot of
people using this barking dog law to get at their neighbor that they do not like. I am
COUNCIL MEETING 78 JUNE 17, 2015
really against our Council passing these kind of laws. I think we have enough bad
blood out there day-to-day without having another vehicle for neighbors to fight with
each other. There is a lot of reasons.
I can talk about my personal dog because every time my dog barks at night, I
go out, me or my wife. We go out and we find out why he is barking because I am
sure that neighbors want peace and quiet after 8:00 p.m. or what have you. Ninety
percent (90%) of the time I would say it is either a feral cat, a chicken, or somebody
walking on the road. He is not barking for no reason. If nobody is there, the dog is
going to lie down. I mean, he just going to cruise. But most house dogs bark for a
reason because the owners will discipline them. We put on dog collars, we squirt
water or what have you, to try and reach our dogs that it is not cool to bark at night.
Most dogs will react with proper training. I really want to correct this thing before it
gets worse. I want to stop the bickering among neighbors to try and get after each
other and to go into court. I do not want this Council to foster that. But as far as
tackling the bigger issue about those who, like Matt and Felicia said that are
incessant barking, this barking dog law does not address that. I think we need
something. I do not know what it is. I wish I did know at this time. But I think with
enough work, there is a way to go after those specific owners. But in this case, I think
we have waited a year and we have watched the Kaua`i Humane Society. One could
also say that the Kauai Humane Society right now, is undergoing some challenges of
their own. There is a large feral cat issue out there. There are feral chicken issues.
I think the Kaua`i Humane Society should stick to their core services and stop being
the barking dog referee. Let us get them back to basics. Let us look for a means that
we can really tackle the problem that we all want to tackle, is those owners who are
not being responsible dog owners. Thank you, Council Chair.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Councilmember Hooser.
Councilmember Hooser: Yes. I understand what the points the
introducer is trying to make. But I think we are "throwing the baby out with the bath
water," basically. If in fact, ten (10) minutes is too short, then let us make it longer.
If in fact, the enforcement mechanism is not what it should be, then let us fix that.
There is a problem in community and there was fifteen (15) years ago when I was
here about incessant barking of dogs. Unfortunately, this measure does not allow for
amending. It is simply a repeal. I would have preferred a proposal if someone was
not happy with the law, to say, "Okay, let us make is twenty (20) minutes, let us do
this, or let us do that." But right now, it is basically an up or down vote, either we
repeal it or we do not repeal it.
I have a dog, sometimes I have two (2). My wife will call the second one, my
grand-dog. It is a dog of my son who stays at the house. Those dogs bark. Our dog
Roxy will bark when the neighbor's dog Bob walks along out hedge. Roxy will see
Bob out there and will bark and bark inside our house. So, we deal with that. We
also have neighbors that thankfully not anymore, but live a distance away. But their
dogs would bark would bark every night, late into the night, hour after hour after
hour. I remember sometimes my only option is to go on the porch and say, "Shut the
front door" and try to get that dog to be quiet. When I introduced the Bill some years
ago to do this, it was not successful. I will not forget getting calls from people who
live over here in Lihu`e, multi-generational people, lots of old folks saying,
"Councilmember, I cannot sleep. I work at night. All day long there is this dog right
outside my window. It is a small lot. They are ten (10) feet away. They bark, bark,
and bark all day long. I tried talking to the neighbors. There is nothing they can do.
We call the police, we call this, there is no law against it, there is nothing that we can
COUNCIL MEETING 79 JUNE 17, 2015
do, and so can you help?" There are those kind of people all over our island in Lihu`e,
on the west side, and the east side. I would say that the Barking Dog Ordinance is
not the cause of the friction. The cause of the friction is people not being able to sleep
at night who are saying, "What are they going to do with it?" They tried talking to
the neighbor. The neighbor does not want to deal with it. Again, I would much rather
see an attempt to improve upon this law. A lot of time, a lot of hours, and a lot of
public testimony went in this; hours and hours and hours over years. Just to "x" the
whole thing at one time, I think, is imprudent and we should look for ways to improve
it, not ways to just throw it out. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: When I first read the Bill, I thought I do not
think I can support this. I thought about all of the hours and time volunteers spent
on it. But I think that what I want to support is exactly what is coming up, and it is
this discussion about how to improve it. I am inclined to support this on first reading
to continue that discussion. I have asked for additional statistics from the Police
Department. I think it is a good time for us to evaluate what it is we passed so that
we can make some changes. I am for amending it and making it better. If I had to
vote on it today, I would not vote for it. But again, I will support it on first reading
because I would like to see this go to a Committee for additional discussion. I have
not heard from the Kaua`i Humane Society, and I truly want to hear from some of the
people that are being affected in both good and bad ways. I have only had positive
E-mails from people thanking the Council for passing the Bill. So, I am looking
forward to hearing from others who are struggling with it and see what we can do
somewhere in between. My hope is that we can work on the solution rather than
having it one way or the other. Thank you.
Councilmember Yukimura: When I introduced a Barking Dog Bill in the
1980s, I did it because this local couple from Lihu`e Town Estates came to me and
said, "We have had to move our bed from our bedroom to our living room because our
neighbor's dog is right outside our bedroom and keeps barking all night. We have
tried to talk to our neighbors and they have not wanted to talk to us about the
problem." That is how serious it is for some people. In the last round when we were
considering the Bill that is now an Ordinance, the Principal of an elementary school
who was hurt badly and was in recovery sent us an E-mail saying, "Please do
something. I have a dog next door. He barks all day and all night. I am home trying
to rest and recover, and I cannot. There is no recourse or relief for me." These are
the issues that we have had to deal with. The one that was recently in court, it was
a retired couple who had bought their home, and I think on the second day, the dog
started barking and they never stopped. There had to be some solution and they
would call the Kaua`i Humane Society, they would call the police, and neither could
really do anything because there was no law to address it. So, that is why we worked
for three (3) years with people who had barking dog problems to try to craft a law
that would work. We worked with the Police Department to make sure that they
would not be unduly burdened, and we worked to make sure that this law will not be
used in situations of the Hatfields versus McCoys where neighbors just hated each
other and just tried to do everything possible to make life miserable for each other.
You all got the barking dog statistics yesterday or the day before, which shows
a year's worth of cases that have come up under our law. It shows that there were
seventy-one (71) reports, forty-one (41) of those have been addressed by the law, and
sixteen (16) of them closed with education. There is a whole process where if they get
a complaint, the Kaua`i Humane Society will send instructions both to the dog owner
COUNCIL MEETING 80 JUNE 17, 2015
and to the complainant. One, the complainant is told how to keep logs, and other
neighbors can also keep logs. The dog owner is given all kinds of suggestions as to
ways that they can control the barking of their dog including barking collars,
including training, and making sure the dog is okay physically with enough food and
water, things like that. Then there is a process. So, sixteen (16) of the
seventy-one (71) cases, and some of them have just come up in the last six (6) months.
These will still going through the process. But of the earlier ones, sixteen (16) have
been closed with education, seventeen (17) have had citations issued, and I think
two (2) have gone to court. I sat in court, listened, and saw how difficult it was for
evidence and so forth. The burden is on the complainant to first show evidence and
logs that it is a problem. Then, the burden is on the defendant to show defenses or
reasons why the dog was barking for good reason. In that case, the Judge found for
the defendant. However, for the last three (3) months of that case, the dogs have been
quiet. It showed that the actual law was working. There are difficult situations. In
this case, the dog owner choose to give up one (1) of the dogs. I know that was a very
difficult and hard decision for her. But I do not think she was questioning in the end
that the dogs were causing a problem for her neighbors. Anyway, I think it is working
for the most part. I am going to vote on first reading in favor of it so we can hear. I
think it is good that we hear how the law is not working, and then devise ways to
address that if in case it is not working.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Anyone else? Councilmember
Hooser.
Councilmember Hooser: Just a process question. Again, it is my
understanding that we are not able to amend this Bill at all. It is a repeal?
Council Chair Rapozo: Correct.
Councilmember Hooser: If we wanted to improve the law as opposed to
repeal the law, we cannot do that with this vehicle?
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Correct.
Councilmember Hooser: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: I just wanted to say I will be voting this to get
through first reading. I do think a situation like this does need to be reevaluated. I
would like to hear more from the Kaua`i Humane Society about how the cases are
going, what their feeling is, and how effective this law has been. But this law kind of
makes me...I do not want to bring it up, but it makes me think of a private nuisance
lawsuit, similar of that to the smoke issue. It is between two (2) neighbors, and I
think there is a method for people to resolve their issues and it is through a private
nuisance lawsuit. I am open to hearing more information, and I look forward to the
discussion that is going to happen, and the testimonies that we will probably get. It
will probably give us a better idea how the law has been working so far.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: Let me point out, too, that there is no County
in Hawai`i that has a successful barking dog law that is being enforced. This is not
an easy problem to fix. Honolulu has, I believe, they have a law in the books. But
COUNCIL MEETING 81 JUNE 17, 2015
the police and humane society do not even go there. Why would you not go there?
Because when you go to court, you are not going to be able to prove it, your prosecutor
is going to waste all of that time, and your police will waste time for nothing. Who is
going to lose out? The residents, the locals, who has to defend themselves. I just
think again, a specific reason why I say "repeal and not "amend" because right now,
it is not working and it will never work. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i: I, too, am supporting on first reading. I am
not sure I saw the original E-mail from the Kaua`i Humane Society, and then I saw
the chart of numbers. It looked all wrong. I asked several questions and then for
further information even about the involvement of KPD and all of that, and some of
the information that we got back, and I think it is still coming back now. We need
the time to look at it further. But I was told that KPD does not get involved. That is
one thing to consider. The numbers were corrected a couple of times. I am not even
sure if Councilmember Yukimura has the latest numbers. But there is a lot of
information to look at. I think overall, if it is a bad law, then it should be repealed. I
appreciated the comments from one of the testifiers about the culture and about the
law not going too far because there is a way to correct bad behavior and to have people
be better owners and more responsible owners even still working with the Kaua`i
Humane Society, but short of two hundred dollars ($200) or a five hundred dollars
($500) fines, neighbors taking each other to court, and all of that. I am willing to
work on this.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember, you have used up your time.
What do you have?
Councilmember Yukimura: First I want to say that because we are not
going to be able to amend this Bill, if we are going to make changes, we will have to
introduce a new law.
Council Chair Rapozo: Right.
Councilmember Yukimura: But I am willing to use this as a vehicle to find
out what is happening, which is why I will vote for it on first reading.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Thank you.
Councilmember Yukimura: I also want to say...
Council Chair Rapozo: No. Councilmember, you have used your time
and this is first reading and please. You saw the light turn yellow and it is done. I
want to really respect the rule because once you start deviating...
Councilmember Yukimura: The rule makes no sense.
Council Chair Rapozo: But that is the rule. Change the rule. Anyone
else?
Councilmember Yukimura: I want to appeal the decision of the Chair.
Council Chair Rapozo: Go ahead, appeal the rule.
COUNCIL MEETING 82 JUNE 17, 2015
Councilmember Hooser: Chair?
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes.
Councilmember Hooser: I am not sure how much time I have available.
But I would be happy to yield my time to Councilmember Yukimura.
Council Chair Rapozo: How much time does Councilmember Hooser
have?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Councilmember Hooser has two (2) minutes
left.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay.
Councilmember Kuali`i: I have a process question? I never understood
the rule to be that we can give each other time.
Council Chair Rapozo: Well, it is silent. But I am going introduce a
Resolution with clarifications because this is...and again, I am going to call a spade
a spade. Councilmember Yukimura tests the rule and she is the only one that does
it. I am going to clarify the rule and this body will decide what they want to do
because it is a First Reading Bill. It is going to go to public hearing. It is going to go
to Committee. I am going to honor it because we have no rule about transferring
time. Councilmember Hooser, two (2) minutes. Please give Councilmember
Yukimura two (2) minutes. I will be preparing some changes because some of this is
just unnecessary, in my opinion. Councilmember Yukimura, continue.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. I want to say we have this problem
because the rule is not functional. If we have relevant, important things to say as
part of the discussion, we need to be able to do it. All I want to say is that in response
to Councilmember Kaneshiro's concern that this is a private nuisance case, when you
have seventy-one (71) complaints, it is very different from the Smoke Bill because you
can see it is a major problem and something that we need a law to address. That is
really what I wanted to say.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you.
Councilmember Yukimura: I think we need to be able to go back and forth
on these issues and on these opinions that different Councilmembers have.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Any further discussion? I will say
the rule may not make sense to you, Councilmember Yukimura. I have not heard no
complaints from anyone else. That rule was passed and that is the rule. Again, if
you want to change the rule, you will have an opportunity when I introduce the
Resolution. You can make amendments and we can go down that road. But it is
frustrating for me to try to run this meeting as we should be when I get tested all the
time and challenged all the time. It is from you, Councilmember Yukimura, no one
else. With that, roll call.
COUNCIL MEETING 83 JUNE 17, 2015
The motion for passage of Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2590), as amended on first
reading, that it be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be scheduled
for July 15, 2015, and referred to the Committee of the Whole was then put,
and carried by the following vote:
FOR PASSAGE: Chock, Hooser, Kagawa, Kaneshiro,
Kuali`i, Yukimura, Rapozo TOTAL — 7*,
AGAINST PASSAGE: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0.
(*Pursuant to Rule No. 5(b) of the Rules of the Council of the County of Kauai,
Councilmember Hooser was noted as silent, but shall be recorded as an affirmative for
the motion.)
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: 7:0.
Council Chair Rapozo: Next item.
BILL FOR SECOND READING:
Bill No. 2588, Draft 1 — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE APPROVING A
COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT FOR BARGAINING UNITS 2, 3, AND 4
BETWEEN JULY 1, 2015 AND JUNE 30, 2017: Councilmember Kagawa moved for
adoption of Bill No. 2588, Draft 1, on second and final reading, and that it be
transmitted to the Mayor for his approval, seconded by Councilmember Kuali`i.
Council Chair Rapozo: Discussion? Public testimony?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you, Chair, just for the time. Let me
clarify. I know we went through this previously. I voted silent on this. I will do so
again. I keep being told that we do not have a say in this. This is what we do. I kind
of have an issue with that. I do not know why I have to vote on something when I do
not have a say on it. It just does not make sense to me. While I support that there is
a process and decision has been made, I think that this is an area that we have to pay
attention to more. I will be consistent with my vote and silent in this process again.
Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Any further discussion? Councilmember
Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: Along the lines of Councilmember Chock, I am
kind of baffled that the way all of our State and County workers are paid. For
example, I think the last time we had the police and fire raises and we analyzed it, I
think they were near the top ten (10) and school teachers were 49th out of fifty (50).
Then, I know some of our Hawai`i Government Employees Association (HGEA)
engineers are way down. But I am just wondering where we all should be because I
COUNCIL MEETING 84 JUNE 17, 2015
think everyone can agree that our engineers are important to do our roads, our
walkways, and everything. We all agree. I think teachers are important. We all
agree public safety is important. But at the end of the day, I mean, why do we have
so much of this up and down? We have got one (1) at top ten (10) and the other 49th?
I would think that if you get better teachers, then you get less criminals later that
grow up. I mean, does that not make sense? Why spend the high salary on the police
when maybe you can create more good non-criminal students coming up? I am just
really am troubled by the whole negotiation process of the State and County, and try
to find some kind of balance at some point. But when we have no say over the ones
that we pay the tab, like Councilmember Chock, I have some issues because at some
point, we are going to break the piggy bank. When you hear about in the mainland
firehouses being closed and what have you, it is true. Some Counties just go broke
and then they have to go on a volunteer system. Who suffers? The residents are
going to suffer when they have that fire that do not have that twenty-four (24) hour
personnel. I am really troubled by the whole scale of collective bargaining. I think it
behooves us to at least try and attack this problem. I do not know. Maybe baby steps
at the start. But somewhere. I think we need to try and take a step and try and
change the whole picture. Thank you, Chair.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Hooser.
Councilmember Hooser: I share some of the frustration about the lack
of Council's involvement and participation in the process. But if any of us are not
happy with the settlement, we can vote "no." I will be voting "yes."
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: I am very grateful to hear the concerns
around the table because there is cause to be concerned. I will be voting for these
raises. How can I not vote for them, when not too long ago HGEA and United Public
Workers (UPW) members and teachers were required to take furloughs and five
percent (5%) cuts while police officers and firefighters got six percent (6%) raises for
those same two (2) years in a row compounded or equivalent to rank-to-rank?
Following those years, police officers and firefighters got equivalent of four
percent (4%) raises for four (4) years compounded. This is resulting in entry level
police officers now making about sixty-two thousand dollars ($62,000) before
overtime, and Police Captains making about one hundred twenty-five thousand
dollars ($125,000) on the average before overtime, more than some attorneys,
engineers, planners, and IT personnel in the County. This is not to say that we should
not compensate our police officer and firefighters adequately. We must. But we must
also need to compensate our other employees and provide good public services. There
was a time not too long ago when we were having difficulty in recruiting police
officers. But that is not the case anymore, nor is it a problem to recruit firefighters.
But we are having problems recruiting top quality engineers, IT personnel,
experienced attorneys, and planners. We must have more internal pay equity if we
are to deliver high quality services to people of Kaua`i and Ni`ihau. But that is not
the only problem. Looking at the big picture. Our way of setting salaries in the
County and State is not sustainable. If we do not make some changes, we risk facing
fiscal instability at the least, and bankruptcy at the worse. I say this not to cause
panic or knee-jerk actions, but to urge us all to take actions while we still have time.
If we start now to look deeply at the system and make the course corrections when it
is still possible, we will be much better off and we will achieve the Mayor's and the
Council's top priority, which is financial sustainability. I also believe it would be in
COUNCIL MEETING 85 JUNE 17, 2015
the unions' best interest as well, since the unions did not fare well in Detroit's
bankruptcy proceedings. We all have a stake in avoiding such outcome.
I want to show the statistics on this. This is showing the raises of all of the
different bargaining units in 2016. These are just the raises, not the total salaries in
2017 and the cumulative total over the period of their contracts. I think some of them
have four (4) year contracts and some of them have two (2) year contracts. In 2017,
for raises alone, we are going to be paying fifteen million dollars ($15,000,000). That
is next fiscal year. This is the total pay raise increases over four (4) years. Thirty
million dollars ($30,000,000), right? By 2017. Right. This is an unsustainable
budget. So, who also gets hurt by a non-sustainable budget is the public because we
have to provide good services presently and we have to be preparing for the future. I
mean, that is what generations before us have done. They have always thought about
the future. But the way we keep just cutting and cutting on services, supplies, and
all kinds of things are asking our people to do more for less, and sometimes trying to
squeeze blood out of a stone. That is not going to provide good services nor is it taking
care of the future whether it is skateboard parks and other facilities to keep our kids
out of trouble, taking care of the elderly, providing better bus service or providing
affordable housing. What also gets hurt is proper support for our employees who need
supplies, tools, equipment, and training to serve the public well. The Administration
has indicated it wants to address this problem. But I have not yet seen how we are
going to do it. I hope that we will find a way together to collectively address this
because it is not sustainable.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you, anyone else? Councilmember
Kuali`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Of course, I will agree with Councilmember
Yukimura about it not being sustainable because it is very obvious when you see the
figures just going up and up. But I do disagree with the statement about we do not
have a say. Of course we have a say. This is the only place where we do have a say,
during the budget. This Council approves or does not approve how much this County
can spend, period. I mean, it is true we do not participate in actual negotiations and
that is why when the negotiations are over, we have no choice but to approve what is
before us for that year. I mean, it is only the right thing to do. But we must then for
the next cycle and the cycle after that, constantly work on things like Vacancy Review
Committee and the Position Review Committee, all positions. We did not do enough
in this last budget vote. That is what I said. The glass is half-empty because with
eighty percent (80%) of the budget being spent on salaries, but we are not even able
to start reducing by eliminating more of the vacant positions. It is only natural that
you feel a sensitivity toward ours workers, their families, and who they are
supporting. It is hard to cut a position with a body in it. But let us be real about the
positions that are vacant and we should at least cut those. Let us be real about the
levels of salaries throughout the County that we allow just to blow up as if this is the
City of San Francisco or New York City. This is the County of Kaua`i. We want to
attract the highest best level top managers. But let us use the fact that we are here
in this beautiful place as part of the benefit of having such a high level job in our
County. This is not about the workers, in my opinion. It is not about the unions. It
is about us as the County Council and the Mayor as the Administration mismanaging
our budget. So, that is what we have to work on. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kaneshiro.
COUNCIL MEETING 86 JUNE 17, 2015
Councilmember Kaneshiro: I have got to agree. I share the same concerns
as all the other Councilmembers here. I think the one frustrating part about the
budget, I mean, we get pounded on to cut the budget. But as you can see in the
spreadsheet, next year, there is an eight million dollars ($8,000,000) increase to
salaries based on collective bargaining. There is really not much we can do about it.
I mean, we cannot cut those jobs or anything. We are going to have to cut expenses,
which we have been trying to do to balance the budget. I think it is hard. I am not
saying that police do not deserve the pay that they get. I am not saying that fire does
not deserve the pay that they get. I think we do have all of the positions full, probably
because the pay is a lot better now. It motivates people to want to be a police officer
or a fireman when we have other positions that the pay may not be that great so we
have a hard time filling it. I think when it comes to collective bargaining, although
we do not get to sit at the table, I just ask whoever sits at the table, to please look at
the individual Counties and what our financial situation is. I am not opposed to
increases. But I am opposed to not looking at what our financial situation is and then
just sticking us with the tab. If we could plan out the next ten (10) years of increases,
small increases. I mean, usually everybody uses inflation at three percent (3%) and
increase salaries somewhere along there. But to give six percent (6%) increases or
four percent (4%) increases, it is hard, and it is hard to know where our budget is
going when we do not know maybe the collective bargaining is only for a few years
and the next year it gets bumped again. I know we will be paying a lot more attention
to the collective bargaining process. I will be paying a lot of attention to the collective
bargaining process this coming year. I am just hoping that we can come up with
something that is reasonable and fits each other County's budget. For all of our
workers to follow the same budget as the State, to follow the same budget as Big
Island or Maui. We all have different financial situations. I think it needs to be
specified to the individual islands. I will be voting for it. But I know I will be
watching the process a lot closer next year.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Hooser.
Councilmember Hooser: Just real briefly, and this is not intended at
anyone in particular. But there has been several comments made by how the Council
is powerless and that is not true. We can cut jobs if we wanted to. Many of us think
that it is not the right thing to do. Others there is no political will to do it. We do
have the power to vote "no" if this Council wants to and take other action. Just for
the record, we are not powerless. But we choose to vote "yes" today and support these
measures. I just wanted to say that for the record.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: I mean, we do not have to go to cutting jobs
right away. But we can at some point, say "no" to pay raises, and we may have to do
that in the future if we want a sustainable budget. How the pay raises are set up is
one of the keys that we have to start looking at. Police could get their pay raises
because during arbitration, they were allowed to look at the reserves, I mean, our
unexpended...or what is it called?
Councilmember Kuali`i: Unassigned Fund Balance.
Councilmember Yukimura: Unassigned Fund Balance, and that is one of
the mechanisms which may be we have to change.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura.
COUNCIL MEETING 87 JUNE 17, 2015
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else? I will just say that we are
between a rock and a hard place. We can vote "no" and we can stop the funding, and
then we will get sued because the contract has been approved. You cannot not fund
it. I mean, you can vote "no." You could. But we will get sued because the Counties
agreed to this. The Mayors agreed to it. The Mayors should be the ones saying "no"
because their votes matter, not the Council's. The way it works is both sides agree,
they end up coming up, and typically we do not agreement. So, we end up in binding
arbitration and then the arbitrator rules on a decision that is binding. We do a
horrible job as a County generally, with the outer island Counties, in negotiating
these contracts. Horrible. What I found out in the last couple of years is that we
basically put all of our eggs in one (1) basket. We let Honolulu negotiate for us and
that is the problem. Honolulu has their own agenda. Political agenda, call it what
you want. But they have their own. They are just geographically and politically
much closer with the Governor. The Governor needs one (1) vote from one (1) County
Mayor to pass the agreement. One (1). Unless all of the Mayors get together and say
"no," it is not going to change. It will not change and then we are bound. What are
we going to do? We are going to vote "no" on this and end up with a lawsuit for a
breach of contract? That would be irresponsible. I have said this to a couple of union
representatives, "You folks are going to be so successful in negotiations, and you are
going to cause us to cut positions." JoAnn is exactly right. It is not sustainable. We
will not be able to fund these pay raises going forward. The contract also provides for
Counties to reduce the size of the force. There is a process for that. We are going to
get to a point before bankruptcy that we are going to be sending out pink slips to
employees because the unions were so successful in the prior years, that now the
County have no choice but to say, "Hey, sorry, either furloughs or we are going to be
reducing your workforce," which is totally legal under the contract. Do we want to do
that? Of course not. I guess what I am saying is the unions, you folks have to start
looking ahead too because yes, you can come up with these huge increases, but at
some point, there will be no money and we are almost there. But until then, we are
at the whim of the arbitrators, of the Governor, and one (1) Mayor. In this case, a
Mayor has never...maybe one (1) time. I think, Mayor Baptiste had talked about not
supporting the collective bargaining increases. That was many years ago. But since
then, the Mayors just go along with it and then we have to deal with it.
When police officers was making one thousand five hundred dollars ($1,500) a
month, that was what I was making when I was a cop. Nobody was complained about
that. They went to work and we had a hard time filling positions. We are not talking
about what they should or should not get paid. But to all the people out there that
think they are paid too much or they want to get paid that much, hey, go apply. Go
be a cop. That is my comment to that. Go be a cop. You want to make sixty thousand
dollars ($60,000) a year starting pay, go sign up. They are looking for people all year
long. It is not one of the best jobs in the planet. It is a tough job. It is a dangerous
job. We talked about that earlier today. I think they are getting paid. It is a lot of
money, but when you call for them and you need help, they are worth every penny of
it. I just want people to understand that. Those fire/police contracts are very
lucrative. They were very attractive. But at the end of the day, the Governor and
the Mayors agreed to it so now we have to fund it, and that is the unfortunate part.
KipuKai talked about this. Just take for example, a couple of Departments across
the street. You look at Human Resources (HR) and look at Mayor's Office. The
amount of personnel in those Departments. A lot. We have got to look inside
ourselves first and as KipuKai said, start looking internally and say, "Hey, do we
really need all of these people?" I am not talking about the ones that come under
COUNCIL MEETING 88 JUNE 17, 2015
collective bargaining contracts. I am talking about appointed and exempt personnel
that do not enjoy the union protection. Do we need all of those people at that
extravagant salary? I do not know. That is the question we have to ask ourselves.
With that, roll call.
The motion for adoption of Bill No. 2588, Draft 1, on second and final reading,
and that it be transmitted to the Mayor for his approval was then put, and
carried by the following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Chock, Hooser, Kagawa, Kaneshiro,
Kuali`i, Yukimura, Rapozo TOTAL — 7*,
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
(*Pursuant to Rule No. 5(b) of the Rules of the Council of the County of Kauai,
Councilmember Chock was noted as silent, but shall be recorded as an affirmative for
the motion.)
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Seven (7) ayes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Can we have the next item,
please? It is just the reading to get into Executive Session.
EXECUTIVE SESSION:
ES-805 Pursuant to Hawaii Revised Statutes (HRS) Sections 92-4 and
92-5(a)(2), and Kaua`i County Charter Section 3.07(E), the Kaua`i County Council will
meet in Executive Session with the County Clerk. This Executive Session pertains
to the evaluation of the County Clerk where consideration of matters affecting privacy
will be involved as they relate to this agenda item
Council Chair Rapozo: Go ahead.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Council Chair Rapozo, if I just may say a few
words regarding this Executive Session (ES).
Council Chair Rapozo: Sure.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: I would like to preface my statement by
saying that I have not had a chance to present my vision, goals, et cetera, to our staff.
They have heard bits and pieces of it at different times. But as many of you know,
we have been very busy with the budget as well as the National Western Interstate
Region (WIR) Conference, and I have just not had the time to do so. So, they are
hearing it for the first time. I truly apologize to them for that. It is not how I normally
do things, as I usually personally discuss these items with our staff prior to
presenting them to you.
I was sworn in as the County Clerk on May 6, 2015. As part of the discussion
held that day, it was requested that within six (6) weeks, which is today, the Council
would meet with me to discuss and establish mutual expectation and goals. Given
those statements and timeline, ES-805 has been posted. Believe me, I mean no
disrespect, but it is my belief that if we will be discussing my goals for the office, I
would feel much more comfortable having this discussion in open session. As such, I
COUNCIL MEETING 89 JUNE 17, 2015
will be waiving my privilege to go into Executive Session today. I understand that
the posting also states "the evaluation of the County Clerk," and I feel that this
discussion should also be held in open session. It is very important to me to be able
to openly discuss with you, as well as our staff and members of the public, what I see
as a vision for the office and for the Office of the County Clerk, our goals, and be able
to have your feedback. I am open to any questions that you may have.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. First of all, let me address the
Executive Session posting. If we are going to be discussing goals and objectives, then
it does belong in open session and not in Executive Session. As far as the evaluation
of the County Clerk, you have been here six (6) weeks. So, obviously, you are far from
getting your evaluation. I think as we are discussing expectations that as well, should
be held in open session and not in Executive Session. The posting reflects an
Executive Session. We are allowed to have this posted Executive Session discussion
in open session. So, that is what we will do. Councilmember Kagawa, did you have
a question?
Councilmember Kagawa: I realize that. I commend the Clerk for
wanting to have it in open session. I feel a little hesitant knowing that each
Department or Office, they might have some internal meetings that they want to just
keep within themselves. I just want to make sure that the advice of the Council is
unanimous and make sure that we are all on the same page because I feel like some
things is better kept within the units. Thank you, Chair.
Council Chair Rapozo: I mean, goals and objectives do not fall under
protections of Chapter 92. If the Clerk believes or any Councilmember or the County
Attorney for that matter, believes we are getting to a point where it involves a
personnel matter, then obviously we can break at that point and go into Executive
Session. That is the beauty of the posting. We can go in if we have to. I want to limit
today's discussion to simply that, the goals and objectives, and we can move forward
on that. That is completely open to the public. If we have any specific questions that
involve personnel that we hold that until the end, we can get B.C. go home, and then
we can reconvene in Executive Session. Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: I just want to commend our County Clerk for
challenging the process because I think it makes a big difference when the public sees
officials taking the initiative to keep things as transparent and open. In terms of
inspiring what I call "shared vision," it is that much more important that it happens
in openly because it is something that we are all trying to co-create in the process.
Mahalo.
Council Chair Rapozo: Any other questions? Councilmember
Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: I want to thank the Clerk. No apologies
necessary. I really feel like just by honoring with my request that we have a
discussion, remembering it, and putting it on the agenda is a great thing. Thank you
very much. I have no objections to discussing the goals of the County Clerk in open
session. But I also saw this as a part of our personnel responsibility to start out your
term with a clear understanding of what our concerns were about the operations and
what your goals would be as the Clerk, and then that would become part of the
evaluation. I think that might be better done as a personnel issue in a closed session.
Let us try it and see how it works. But I am thinking that we should have some closed
COUNCIL MEETING 90 JUNE 17, 2015
session time to talk about what are our expectations are and the things by which you
will be evaluated.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Hooser.
Councilmember Hooser: Pardon me Chair, I am not really clear on why
this item is on the agenda and what we are going to be talking about. As you
mentioned, the Clerk has only been in her job a few weeks. I cannot imagine any
evaluation of that few weeks is going to be meaningful. If it is for the purpose of the
Clerk presenting the goals and objectives and plans for the future, then I would think
the Clerk would have time to develop that, work with the staff, present that to us in
writing, and then perhaps we could have a discussion. It feels like something is not
quite right here.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Well, let me answer your question.
The reason it is on the agenda is when we appointed Jade as the Clerk,
Councilmember Yukimura requested that in six (6) weeks we have a posted agenda
item to discuss the goals and objectives, and that is why it is here. I was just trying
to honor the request of the Councilmember. That is why it is here today.
Councilmember Hooser: Just a brief follow-up. I think what I heard
from the Clerk was that she had not had time to really meet with the staff to complete
that. I would suggest that we might give the Clerk additional time unless there is
some urgency to do this, to finish her goals and objectives and meet with the staff as
she seems wanting to do, and then we reschedule it would be my suggestion.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: I concur. I want to give her another six (6)
weeks or what have you because I know when Ricky left, she was smashed doing a
lot on her own. We are already understaffed to begin with. Thank you, Chair.
Council Chair Rapozo: I am just trying to honor the request of the
Councilmember. That is all. I think you forget you asked for that, right?
Councilmember Yukimura: No. I remember, but I did not expect it to be
so impeccably addressed.
Council Chair Rapozo: JoAnn, that is what you asked for.
Councilmember Yukimura: Plus or minus six weeks (6). I mean, six (6)
weeks plus or minus. I am really thankful it was not forgotten, and I have no problems
with giving more time.
Council Chair Rapozo: When I was selected as Chair, and I
appreciate that. I got bombarded with blog posts and E-mails saying, "The dictator
has arrived." King Mel. He is going to keep everything from the agenda, blah blah.
I put everything that was requested on the agenda. JoAnn, if you want something in
six (6) weeks, it will be in six (6) weeks. If you want something plus or minus and if
you state that, then we will be plus or minus it. But you had stated six (6) weeks and
that is why we are here. I have no objection and I do not think the Clerk has any
objection. I do not think B.C. has any objection because if we are good with that, he
can go home. Is that okay with you Madame Clerk?
COUNCIL MEETING 91 JUNE 17, 2015
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: That is fine.
Council Chair Rapozo: I know you prepared for this day.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: I welcome the time and at least the
opportunity to speak with the staff.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: That is probably the best way to do it. Public,
any testimony?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Let us receive this and then I think
Councilmember Hooser's suggestion is a good one. We will allow you to prepare
something in writing and circulate it, and then we have that discussion at that time.
Councilmember Kagawa moved to receive ES-805 for the record in open
session, seconded by Councilmember Kuali`i.
Council Chair Rapozo: Further discussion?
The motion to receive ES-805 for the record in open session was then put, and
unanimously carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. With that, no further
business, the meeting is adjourned.
ADJOURNMENT:
There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 3:45 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
■r -
SCOTT K. ATO
Deputy County Clerk
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