Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout03/23/2016 Council minutes COUNCIL MEETING MARCH 23, 2016 The Council Meeting of the Council of the County of Kaua`i was called to order by Council Chair Mel Rapozo at the Council Chambers, 4396 Rice Street, Suite 201, Lihu`e, Kaua`i, on Wednesday, March 23, 2016 at 8:31 a.m., after which the following Members answered the call of the roll: Honorable Mason K. Chock Honorable Gary L. Hooser (present at 8:32 a.m.) Honorable Ross Kagawa Honorable Arryl Kaneshiro Honorable KipuKai Kuali`i Honorable JoAnn A. Yukimura (present at 8:53 a.m.) Honorable Mel Rapozo APPROVAL OF AGENDA. Councilmember Kuali`i moved for approval of the agenda as circulated, seconded by Councilmember Kaneshiro, and carried by a vote of 5:0:2 (Councilmembers Hooser and Yukimura were excused). MINUTES of the following meetings of the Council: January 13, 2016 Council Meeting February 10, 2016 Council Meeting February 10, 2016 Public Hearing re: Bill No. 2614 March 9, 2016 Public Hearing re: Bill No. 2616 and Bill No. 2617 Councilmember Kagawa moved to approve the Minutes as circulated, seconded by Councilmember Kaneshiro, and carried by a vote of 5:0:2 (Councilmembers Hooser and Yukimura were excused). JADE K. FOUNTAIN-TANIGAWA, County Clerk: Chair, the next item are the interviews for Boards and Commissions. The first one is Russell M. Wong for the Charter Review Commission. (Councilmember Hooser is noted as present.) INTERVIEWS: CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION: • Russell M. Wong —Term ending 12/31/2018 Council Chair Rapozo: Mr. Wong, how are you? Long time no see. Can you please state your name for our captioner, who is somewhere far away? COUNCIL MEETING 2 MARCH 23, 2016 RUSSELL M. WONG: Russell Wong. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you for being here today. You are being recommended to the Charter Review Commission. With that, we will let you open up with a few minutes about yourself, and then we will have any questions if Councilmembers have them. Mr. Wong: I am the Chief Operating Officer of Aloha Auto Group, which is the Kia dealer for the State and the Harley-Davidson dealer here in Kaua`i and in Kona. I am interested in being a part of the community and excited for the opportunity. I am a very civic-minded person and saw on the County website that they were looking for potential people to volunteer for Boards and Commissions, so I sent an application in. I think about one (1) year ago, and have been going through the process since then, I spent a lot of time traveling to different businesses on the different islands, but Kaua`i is my home. My son married a Kaua`i girl from Kekaha and we decided to move permanently here back in 2014. Previously, I lived on Kaua`i from 2007 to 2010 and knew that this is where I wanted to be. My great-great grandfather was Francis Scott; he is buried up in Kilauea and he was a Kilauea Sugar manager a long time ago. My wife's family is from Anahola. I am happy to be living here and I want to get involved in the community. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much. Any questions of Mr. Wong? Councilmember Hooser. Councilmember Hooser: Good morning, Mr. Wong. Mr. Wong: Good morning. Councilmember Hooser: Thank you for your willingness to serve. My question is about the roles and responsibilities of the commission. What is your understanding of the kind of work you will be doing? Mr. Wong: I have read the Charter and I understand that the commission will actually be sun-setting at the end of this year, unless the voters approve to extend it. I also understand that the Charter Review Commission is responsible to recommend charter amendments and present it to the public to vote on. Councilmember Hooser: There are a couple of hot items that seem to be on every year or every election year, anyway. One of them would be districting, having council districts. Another one that is talked about is the council-manager system. Do you have any opinions, perspectives, positions, or have you thought about those particular issues? Mr. Wong: I have not spent a lot of time thinking about...I do understand the differences between the different counties, the at-large versus the districting. I have not really formed a specific opinion on it at this point. I think ultimately the voters would be the ones that would decide what best serves the community. I am not very familiar with the managing... COUNCIL MEETING 3 MARCH 23, 2016 Councilmember Hooser: Council-manager. Mr. Wong: Yes, council-manager form of government since I have not seen...I know there are some counties on the mainland that operate that way. I have not seen that here in Hawai`i, so I really have not formed an opinion. I would have to get the information and kind of analyze it and see what the benefits and issues are with it. Councilmember Hooser: I think you will be jumping in at a point where decisions have to be made fairly soon if things are going to go on the ballot. So there will be some homework in catching up, I guess. Mr. Wong: I think the limited information that I did see in what was provided to me, I think the commission looked at that, but I do not think it is currently being looked at by the commission, as far as what I have been able to see in just the limited information I received from reading the Charter and stuff. Councilmember Hooser: Thank you so much. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you, Chair. I am wondering if you are aware and acknowledge to try and address...like we have an issue, as a Councilmember has brought up, and in Kaua`i, I believe there is a vocal minority and there is a silent majority who are too busy to get to know what the issues are, or it is not their style to be vocal and tell you what to do. I am wondering how do you determine the will of the majority of the people because a lot of them are the silent people out there. How do you figure that out? You may get one hundred (100) E-mails that tell you the county manager is the way go and you may get zero (0) to keep it as-is. Does that mean that the one hundred (100) people represent the majority of the island? I believe that they do not. How do you on the commission try to determine if this is a valid amendment that we need to put on or because one hundred (100) people have vocally told you that it is the right thing to do and it far outweighs the amount that have not told you what to do? Being a businessman and what have you, you have a lot of local customers and they tell you that, "Hey, let us leave it the way it is right now and keep it off the ballot." So how do you determine, as a member of the Charter Review Commission, what is the will of the people? It is a job that we have here, but I am wondering if you have any take on how you are going to help figure out what that is? Mr. Wong: I think I understand the comment you are making, with respect to...in relating it from a business perspective, the loudest complainer gets a lot of attention, but I recognize that any...and I would look at things the same way for any operation or business—when you survey...I will take it into my professional life...when you survey all of the people, for instance, buy things from you, you get one general opinion of how you perform and that is basically a result of people that are responding to individual surveys and I would equate that to voting. Then maybe you get social media reviews that may be different than what your real customer base feels of you because you get individuals that may be putting out an opinion. You have to weigh all of those things. Ultimately, I would COUNCIL MEETING 4 MARCH 23, 2016 look at the will of the people as being what they do at the ballot box. You have to have some common sense and understand what you are looking at and what you are dealing with and try to review it from as unemotional point as you can while looking at the facts and making good decisions. Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you. Good response, Russell. I appreciate your willingness to serve. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Chock. Councilmember Chock: Good morning, Mr. Wong. Mr. Wong: Good morning. Councilmember Chock: Thank you for serving. I just have a question. I know we have asked you about specific issues that are currently on the table. I just want to know, from your perspective, needs focus and attention in terms of our Charter development or any charter amendments for the Charter Review Commission moving forward? Mr. Wong: I have not really gotten into the specifics. I have just been trying to update myself and read what has been going on. Is your question what specifically do I think needs modification in the Charter? Councilmember Chock: Yes. Mr. Wong: In reading the Charter, I think the Charter is pretty well written. I see some of the recommendations that are being considered that will be over the remainder of the term of the Charter Review Commission before it potentially sunsets, unless it is voted to continue. They have some items that they are looking at in making it to the ballot. Some of them are relatively basic. I know they are looking at term limits and that will be a discussion...or changing the terms, not term limits. There is also the issue about changing to districting. Those will all be things that I have to really dig into and get a sense for what is positive and what should be recommended, but I do not have a specific high priority that I have identified. Councilmember Chock: Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Any other questions? If not, thank you, Russell. Just on a personal note, I have known Russell for many years. When he first came over to Kaua`i, I think you were commuting for a while when you first got here, right? Mr. Wong: I actually got a rental on Kawili Street, but I was a member...maybe I am over-talking now, but I was a member of the State's Better Business Bureau and when I got out here, we felt like Kaua`i was not well-served, so we formed a Better Business Bureau Advisory Committee that Chair Rapozo volunteered and worked on, so I got to know Chair Rapozo from those experiences. COUNCIL MEETING 5 MARCH 23, 2016 Council Chair Rapozo: That was my point that I wanted to make, that when I first met Russell...what do you go by Russell or Russ? Mr. Russell: Russell, either one. Council Chair Rapozo: His heart...he really wanted to help out Kaua`i and wanted to make a difference here on Kaua`i, so I am very happy to see your name here and obviously I think you will get the support from the Council. It is a tough commission. I will be bringing up the County Attorney because I think there is an issue regarding the date because of the sunset, so we may have to fix the Resolution, but we will get it from the County Attorney. That will not affect the appointment. Mr. Wong: Okay. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much, Russell. Mr. Wong: Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Let us take public testimony now before I call up the County Attorney. Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Chair, the first registered speaker is Felicia Cowden. There being no objections, the rules were suspended. FELICIA COWDEN: Felicia Cowden for the record. I want to thank the nominee, and with all due respect to him, I have a serious problem with this nomination because of the system of how the nominations are made. It is not very public who all is put up for nomination. I know that many good qualified people are overlooked. As an example, Christobel Kealoha put her application in a couple of years ago and she was almost thirty (30) years with the State Attorney's Office where she was the Deputy Attorney General. She has also been a county attorney. She ran for County Council. She had a heavy capacity to be able to manage this and she was not even given a call. The issue that the Charter Review Commission is dealing with right now...they spent three (3) hard years looking over the Charter for gender agreement and all of these small elements in there. After three (3) hard years of work, the Deputy County Attorney—he might be right, but he said the placement of a comma and all of these things made that invalid. If Christobel had been in there, she would be able to know early on if that is a waste of time or if this young county attorney does not know accurately. That is just one example. When she was not selected, they picked somebody who had only been here for two (2) years. I would say he is doing a good job and he is now the Chair, but they picked somebody brand new to the County over somebody with that much lifetime capacity and understanding. After that happened, I was very unhappy and applied myself. But guess what? I would not even get out of the chair to give me an application because they said they did not have anymore. I said, "Could you please print one out?" They said no and that I needed to write a letter, mail it in, and they would mail me one back. I called the boss, who is in the room, and he met me at Barbeque Inn and we sat and talked. It was explained to me that there would be no COUNCIL MEETING 6 MARCH 23, 2016 more people put for that commission because that commission was sunsetting at the end of this year; no more people would be selected for that. I will have three (3) more minutes because this is very important. I am going to be putting in a charter amendment or at least an ordinance...I am going to be asking for that. If I have been asked a question like Russell was just asked, I would be able to answer all the way down the line, where we have issues that are in challenge with what is going on and where we need help. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. You can come back up. Ms. Cowden: Okay. Council Chair Rapozo: I think Mr. Furfaro wanted to come up as well and address some of your concerns. Today's process is an interview. The resolution for the appointment will be up at the next council meeting. I want to stay away from the personal...the fact that you disagree with an appointment or a recommendation from the Mayor, the commission, or the agency, you have every right to oppose the nominees, but I would ask that we talk about the nominee and not what happened three (3) years ago. Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: I have a process question. Are we going to have a debate about whether the process of selecting members to serve on commissions is going to be discussed now? I think it is highly inappropriate. Let us stick to the interview and say whether you are for or against Mr. Wong and that is it. It is not about because you do not like the process, you complain about it during the interview of Mr. Wong. It is not fair and it is not appropriate and I think we should just cut it out. Council Chair Rapozo: I kind of alluded to that, but the fact some allegations were made about the process, I do want Mr. Furfaro to respond to what the allegations were. It may not be appropriate, but I do not want to put this away and wait for another agenda item. Mr. Furfaro, please state your name. JAY FURFARO, Boards and Commissions Administrator: This is Jay Furfaro for Boards and Commission. I cannot speak on the process that has been raised here, other than I can confirm with you that I have initiated, like I have with many candidates, a separate meeting with potential candidates. I did point out with some candidates who have interest in possibly seeking public office that we have a number of boards and commissions that are exempt from those applications, and the Charter Review Commission is certainly one and also the Board of Ethics. I think in my nine (9) years, I have been consistent with the fact that of the matter that even on the application, it so states that applications for those commissions are ideally people who are not caught up in the political system through affiliations or structure with a candidate. If you review the application, you will see it as such. My comment about the terms...I have made it very clear that this commission is a ten (10) year commission by Charter. The Charter also states that appointments are for a three (3) year period, so if you rolled these three (3) year periods out, at some point in time you are going to end up with two (2) vacancies on this commission, simply because people's terms have expired. Therefore, as Mr. Wong has expressed to you, he understands that this thing could sunset. The applicants also understand that if it sunsets and there is a new commission, there will be new COUNCIL MEETING 7 MARCH 23, 2016 considerations next year to reappoint full-term members to the Charter Review Commission. I hope that answers some of your questions. (Councilmember Yukimura was noted as present.) Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Councilmember Hooser. Councilmember Hooser: Thank you. I think the question about the process is a fair question. Are the people that seek out an application to serve on a commission ever told that there are no applications available? Mr. Furfaro: They have never been told that by me nor I believe by my staff. I have mailed applications for people who made queries by phone. I have encouraged them to come down. I have applications on the counter and we have the website. Councilmember Hooser: There is no prohibition to serve on the Charter Review Commission for someone who has ran for office in the past or might even consider running in the future, I believe, on the application? Mr. Furfaro: I believe if you look at the application, you will see that there are two (2) commissions that...I will get the statement from my office and I will be glad to send it over to you. It is clearly one for the Board of Ethics. Councilmember Hooser: Right, and that is the only one that is on this application? Mr. Furfaro: Yes, it is on that application and a particular individual had applied for that commission as well and that was what the discussion was about. I should also point out that there are current members that have asked to step down from commissions because they are affiliating themselves with individual elections. I can provide those names for you, separately, if you would like, but there are two (2) individuals that I have talked to as such. Councilmember Hooser: In general just real quick, the process is that I would imagine people would apply, their applications are reviewed, and then the decision is made. Do you review them or does the Mayor review them? Who makes that decision whether or not they are considered for a commission? Mr. Furfaro: Fair question. The applications come in and I review all of the applications. I sometimes look at particular areas where they might be aligned with conditions of that commission and I have in the past had lunch with candidates or met with them for coffee in my office to discuss their background and their willingness to serve, and then submit that up to the Mayor with the comments from that interview. Sometimes, the Mayor even probes a little further and he has met with candidates after that. There is a sequence of an evolution of the application process. Councilmember Hooser: Thank you. COUNCIL MEETING 8 MARCH 23, 2016 Council Chair Rapozo: We are not going discuss process anymore because I just wanted to give you an opportunity to respond. We will send over a communication to the Office of Boards and Commissions with questions that any one of you have as far as process, and then Mr. Furfaro can respond. I do not want to get into this whole process. I respect Mr. Wong taking his time to be here today, as well as Mr. Pacheco, and I think the focus...Felicia, when you come back up, if you decide to come back up, I am only going allow testimony as it relates to the application for this appointment today. Thank you. Mr. Furfaro: Thank you, Chair. Councilmember Kagawa: Again, I hate to interrupt other Councilmembers, but it is not appropriate to be discussing what we were talking about during the interview of Mr. Wong. We try not to be rude and cut each other off as Councilmembers and the public, but let us stick to the agenda item because it is a violation of the Sunshine Law. As you all know, we need to abide by the laws. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Mr. Furfaro: If there are no more questions for me, the individual's application is still active in my office. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Mr. Taylor. Again, focus the discussion and the testimony on the application on hand. KEN TAYLOR: Chair and Members of the Council, my name is Ken Taylor. With all due respect to the applicant, I have a problem because I think we have already put people in place that may not have been qualified, and Hawai`i Revised Statutes (HRS) Section 50-4, "Qualifications for Commission Members" reads, "Each charter commission member shall be a registered voter and resident of the county for at least three (3) years prior to the member's appointment." I think we have already violated that law and I am not sure where we are today, but I think it is imperative as we move forward to take a look if all of these applicants are meeting the requirements that are set forth in state law. I think you have to take a good look at that before you move forward with any more appointments. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Anyone else wishing to testify? Felicia. Ms. Cowden: Felicia Cowden for the record. I had really hoped to not have to be specific about Russell Wong because I respect anybody who is willing to come forward and help, but if I have to focus there, I will. He has not lived here very long. He lived here in the past and has returned recently. Because this is essentially the "11th inning" of the game, we are in overtime for what works for understanding how to do the charter review. Understanding what has been happening up until this point is the critical part of it. From the slight amount of questions he was given, clearly he is not familiar with that. Another quality aside from a decent time of residence on the island is active participation in the public process with other commissions, with the County Council, with the Mayor's Office, and how everything interfaces together, because the Charter is essentially the COUNCIL MEETING 9 MARCH 23, 2016 constitution to make it simple for how the County works. If people do not experience the little flaws that are in there...this was written fifty (50) to sixty (60) years ago when the plantations were still very strong, but since then the County has had to adapt in so many ways that there are big weaknesses that are not the fault of staff, the commissions, and the people, but there are big, huge, weak points. When we have been talking about the need for a county manager versus a mayor, I think that problem could be avoided by really taking a good, hard look at the Charter. There are clear weaknesses that are in there that make it difficult for the Council and the Mayor to work together. Those things could all be fixed. Those are all elements that somebody should have in their back pocket. It should not be just that they are a nice person that is willing and able to do it. I think another thing is that commissions are meant to represent the public. People that have a high public interface and have the trust of the public are very good candidates for this because the communication can flow in strongly, and because the Charter Review Commission is not on H5`ike, there is almost no knowledge of where it is. So when things like this week's meeting came off schedule a week ahead without notification, we need people who are in there that are able to be querying the public for what is going on. Russell might be a wonderful person, but I do not think he meets the qualifications as much as others that could be considered for this job. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Anyone else? I heard it from more than one (1) testifier that there was a question about his residency here. Mr. Wong has been a resident here for a long time. Mr. Wong was the General Manager of Midpac Auto here on Kaua`i and the application says 2007. Anyway, I am not even going to go there. I want to apologize to you, Mr. Wong. That is the reason why people do not want to serve on commissions because this process at times can be very intimidating. Thank you. Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: Chair, I just want to say that this process of confirmation is a very serious process and I think the issues raised about knowledge and time in community is important and I do not see it as an illegitimate question. Council Chair Rapozo: I do not either. I do not know if you were here when Felicia testified the first time. Were you? Councilmember Yukimura: No. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Maybe that is why you do not understand why I am saying what I am saying. Councilmember Yukimura: I may not. Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, read the minutes. Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: It is frustrating to hear, "Well, I do not like this appointment because I feel this and I feel that," and while everybody is entitled to their opinion, but at the end of the day I believe he is a great candidate. We disagree and we disagree, but that is how it is. That is government. So to go through the interview process and now to say, "Well, I think it is a legitimate question," I think we are just getting silly over here. Let us just move on. In every COUNCIL MEETING 10 MARCH 23, 2016 action that we take, we are not going to get one hundred percent (100%) agreement all of the time. If we do not, we do not. I do not know why we are making a big deal. We have had the interview and we have had some comments that I do not agree with and we have had some discussion that I do not agree with taking place on this agenda item, and I think we should move on. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Chock. Councilmember Chock: Thank you, Chair. I have written down a few questions and I think that certainly the topic of the conversation is an important one, but not what we should be focused on this morning. I agree that we should move on and look forward to putting something on the agenda for further discussion on the selection and nomination process, if I could make that request. Council Chair Rapozo: As I stated earlier, we will be sending over the questions because I think Felicia's first half of the testimony was about process. It is not that she did not like Mr. Wong; it was that she thought that somebody else should have it, but that is not what today is about. Today is about Mr. Wong's qualifications. If you have a question, obviously it is legitimate to bring it up. But the first three (3) minutes was about process and individual situations that Ms. Cowden experienced with Boards and Commissions and that is not for today's interview process. I am sorry and I am not going to allow that. Again, we will set up a communication across with any questions as far as process because I have some concerns about what Ms. Cowden has stated and I believe that needs to be addressed. That is not for today. Today is the interview of Mr. Wong. Councilmember Hooser. Councilmember Hooser: You kind of addressed some of what I was going to say. I this it is perfectly legitimate for someone to come up from the public and testify and express concerns about an applicant, about their experience, and about the process in which they were selected. I that is a legitimate thing and I think nominees need to understand that they are moving into the public figure and they need to be able to deal with that. I was very impressed by Mr. Wong's interview and I had no concerns about him as an individual person to serve on this commission at all. For us to send a message that it is not okay for the public to come up and express their concerns...I think we did that. I think these are legitimate questions about the process and we have dealt with that. I appreciate you exploring that and not letting it hang out there. Just like the nominees have to be willing to put themselves out, we need to let the public also speak their mind. So I guess what happened today is perfectly fine. That is part of the process. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Councilmember Kuali`i. Councilmember Kuali`i: Just one quick thing, I just want to say that it is the Mayor's prerogative; it is his selection and his appointment. We can assume that the Mayor is finding people who meet the basic qualifications and who are eligible for the position, and then we can hear from the community of what they like or not like and maybe that is not, in their opinion, the best person for the job. But if it is the person that the Mayor selected and is putting forward and if we can agree to that person adding to the diversity and representing the community the COUNCIL MEETING 11 MARCH 23, 2016 best he or she can, then we can confirm that appointment. I think it is fairly simple. I thank Mr. Wong for stepping forward and being willing to serve. I think everyone who is willing to serve, whether they have been here one (1) year or ten (10) years, we need diversity in service and I think we get that and I thank the Mayor for his appointments. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Mr. Trask, can you come up real quick? This Resolution may have to be amended and the reason I am asking Mauna Kea to come up is because the Charter states that the Charter Review Commission would be initiated in 2007 and run for ten (10) years, which takes it to 2017. This Resolution shows the term going through to 2018. We cannot assume that the Charter Review Commission or the people in the ballot box will do anything different, so we have to assume, as of today, that this term ends in 2017. If that is the case then I would suggest that we amend the Resolution to reflect that because otherwise you would be appointed to a position or a commission that does not exist, but you are the lawyer. MAUNA KEA TRASK, County Attorney: Thank you. For the record, Mauna Kea Trask, County Attorney. In answering your question, and I am looking at Kaua`i County Charter Section 24.03 and comparing it to the Kaua`i County Charter Section 23.02, Section 23.02 describes Boards and Commissions generally, all boards and commissions and commission members. Under Section 23.02(c), it states, "The members of all boards and commissions shall serve for staggered terms of three (3) years and until their successors are appointed." That is the general law. However, if you look at 24.03, "Charter Review," the Chair is correct. It states, "A charter commission composed of seven (7) members who shall serve in accordance to Section 23.02(c) of this Charter to study and review the operation of the county government under this Charter for a period of ten (10) years commencing in 2007." So assuming the Charter Review Commission began on January 1, 2007, it would sunset on December 31, 2016. So in looking at the calendar, January 1, 2017 is a Sunday. I think it has been determined that furthermore it says it is ten (10) year intervals, so it would be from 2007 to 2017 or December 31, 2016, and then it would not operate for ten (10) years, and then it would start again. I think that it would be cleaner for the record to amend it to December 31, 2016. However, if it is left at 2018, it would still be inoperative because the Charter Review Commission would not be in effect. Given the clarity of record, I think it would be better to amend it to reflect the termination date of the Charter Review Commission, if that makes sense. Council Chair Rapozo: So the commission member would have to be basically reappointed and he would not have been charged for that full term? Mr. Trask: Correct. Council Chair Rapozo: Can we do that on the floor? Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Chair, the resolutions are not on this agenda. Council Chair Rapozo: I know, but is that something that we can do? Do we have to resubmit? Can we amend the existing resolution? COUNCIL MEETING 12 MARCH 23, 2016 Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Yes. Council Chair Rapozo: Next week? Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Yes. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Thank you. Next item. Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next item is another interview. This is for the Fire Commission, Chad K. Pacheco. FIRE COMMISSION: • Chad K. Pacheco — Term ending 12/31/2018 Council Chair Rapozo: Chad, are you still here? I am glad you are still here. Can you come up to the chair, please? Mr. Pacheco is being recommended to the Fire Commission. CHAD K. PACHECO: Good morning, Council. My name is Chad K. Pacheco. I am the son of Gary and Haunani Pacheco. I grew up in Kilauea Town. I am currently a lead baker at the St. Regis Princeville, as well as a shop steward for International Longshore and Warehouse Union (ILWU). I was one of the founding members of Kaua`i K-9 Search and Rescue Team, and then went on to become a part of the K-9 Urban Search and Rescue (USAR) Team in O`ahu for the State of Hawai`i. We were part of the beta testing for the K-9 on the national level for the National Search and Rescue Association. I am also a member of the National Search Alliance. I have worked alongside the Kaua`i Fire Department (KFD) and Kaua`i Police Department (KPD) in many searches and I was interested in furthering the community service, so to say, in applying for the Fire Commission with a little understanding of it and trying to expand my knowledge of how Fire, Police, and everybody else work well together. The concentration was more on the Fire Department because we work alongside them a lot. I went to Jay Furfaro to ask for an application because I saw it online, and after further discussion with my peers and my father, I decided to apply for the position. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Any questions for Mr. Pacheco? Councilmember Kuali`i. Councilmember Kuali`i: I might have missed this, but where do you reside on the island? Mr. Pacheco: I reside in Kilauea. Councilmember Kuali`i: For your K-9 search and rescue, you have ten (10) years there. Are you still doing it or is that something you have done in past? Mr. Pacheco: I have over ten (10) years. I was on a previous team prior to that, that disbanded so we continued on and formed the Kaua`i Search and Rescue Association. I am still a member of it; however, I am not an active member due to my obligations right now with the hotel going through COUNCIL MEETING 13 MARCH 23, 2016 some union negotiations, but I still participate in training once in a while when I get an opportunity to do it. Councilmember Kuali`i: Thank you. I have a nephew and two (2) really good friends who do that and I am so blown away by the dogs and how well-trained they are. It is important work for our community in devastating times often. Thank you for your willingness to serve. Mr. Pacheco: Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Hooser. Councilmember Hooser: Thank you for your willingness to serve also. Just glancing at the application, I saw the last name and I was thinking, "Did we not just talk to him the other day?" Thank you for being willing to serve. Mr. Pacheco: Thank you. Councilmember Hooser: Your application says that you understand that challenges that face the department and would like to help. Can you expand on that a little bit? What challenges do you see facing the department? Mr. Pacheco: For the department, some of the challenges that I have come across with my experience with the K-9 unit was communication and how the difference in communication that went along with the searches. There was one search in particular where we had superior equipment to Fire where we ended up lending them our equipment because we had the capabilities of broadcasting our radio signal further. Since that time, I have noticed that the Fire Department has purchased their own set of communication devices that can further their communications. So that is just one of many that I have seen. I have a brother-in-law that is in the Fire Department and many friends in the Fire Department and when you sit down with them and you hear some of the challenges that they face, you sit there and say, "How can I help?" I think this is an avenue where I can be the voice or get their information that they are trying to get across and see how we can make things work for them because they are a vital part of the community and safety of the community. Councilmember Hooser: Thank you so much. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you, Chad, for your willingness to serve. I am wondering if you are going to be able to put on the other hat and separate yourself from your brother-in-law and your friends and try and look at the Fire Department from a financial perspective. With the County facing a shrinking budget, the public saying "no more taxes" and the Fire Department's budget, especially the salaries and overtime, are just continuing to grow; are you willing to look at the financial aspect in trying to determine what is the best way to try and prevent that overtime that could possibly be avoided so that it is sustainable and we do not have to end up like the mainland and shut down firehouses and what have you? Are you willing to look at that financial part? We just had the salaries posted COUNCIL MEETING 14 MARCH 23, 2016 up of the overtime and they were quite alarming. A lot of them were between thirty thousand dollars ($30,000) and fifty thousand dollars ($50,000), like every single firefighter making thirty thousand dollars ($30,000) to fifty thousand dollars ($50,000) in overtime. From the public, some of them are telling me, "How can they make that much overtime when they work during the night, they sleep from 10:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m., right? Then they go back to work. Are they reaping the benefit of getting paid while they are sleeping? If they have to work a couple of hours later, do they still get overtime?" Those are the kinds of questions from the public. How do we reduce it so maybe it is more manageable amount like ten thousand dollars ($10,000) to twenty thousand dollars ($20,000) in overtime, rather than thirty thousand dollars ($30,000) to fifty thousand dollars ($50,000)? Are you willing to look at those aspects and try to see how we can control the Fire budget? Mr. Pacheco: Yes. Being a shop steward, I was once the Chairman for the St. Regis hotel and there are those challenges where you have to separate yourself from a lot of the issues and look at what is in black and white and follow those black and white, instead of going off of your personal feelings, so to say. It might not be what the people want to hear, but that is what is in black and white and that is what you need to stand by and go, "Hey, this is what we have to work with. This is what we have to try our best to accommodate." If you do not have the money there, you do not have a job so you have to figure out the best possible way and avenues to get the job done with what you have. Councilmember Kagawa: That is a great answer. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Chock. Councilmember Chock: Thank you, Chair. Mr. Pacheco, thank you for your application and I think you are going make a good fire commissioner and you have my support on it. We have been talking about the issue of possibly charging for rescues where people disregard warnings or show blatant disregard and negligence in their actions. How do you feel about that? Mr. Pacheco: That is a subject that really hits home for me. The reason being, I am down in Kalihiwai, which is the beach where we live that we have rescue tubes and what not, and on a daily basis, I see people negligent and they go out. We are warning them to not go into the ocean because the surf is big and this and that. You get those people who say, "I swim two (2) hours a day. I can do it," but when they go out in that ocean, they become a problem now and we being there with the trainings that we have had, we have gone out and rescued them and brought them in. My personal feeling is that if there is a sign there that says to not go out and you just say, "I can do it," and you go out and get into trouble, then I feel like there should be some sort of repercussion for that. You are putting the lives of not only yourself, but as well as the firefighters and police officers, in harm's way to rescue someone that was pre-warned and now they are putting lives at stake to rescue them. Like I say, they were told to please not do it. That subject really hits home for me, seeing as I was an active member of the K-9 when we got the calls to go and help. There are those people that are warned to not go off the trail, but they go off the trail, got spun around, and got lost in Koke`e. We spent two (2) to three (3) days trying to find them and finally found them. It is a great feeling to bring them home, but in the same sense there are warning signs along the COUNCIL MEETING 15 MARCH 23, 2016 trails that say do not do it. My opinion is if they blatantly disregard what has been put out there to them, then yes, I believe they should have some kind of financial incurrence to balance the budget of which the public is saying, "Why this or why that?" This is one of the aspects where it goes hand-in-hand. Councilmember Chock: Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: Chad, you are very well-spoken and I am not surprised, knowing who your parents are. Mr. Pacheco: Thank you. Councilmember Yukimura: I am curious about the Kaua`i K-9 Search and Rescue that you have worked with for ten (10) years. Is that a voluntary service? Mr. Pacheco: Yes, that was a voluntary service. The original group was formed by a group of individuals who actually started a group because of a rescue that happened where a K-9 was lost because they were not trained properly in that avenue. So my partner and I were asked, because we had so much dog knowledge, to join the group. In that timeframe, there was a little bit of change in structure and we decided that we needed to be more on a national level where we could take our members and they could move throughout the country and be able to go into these different teams and be able to just slide right in, so to say. So we formed the Kaua`i K-9 Search and Rescue Team that was a voluntary team and still is a voluntary team. We rely on our own money or grants, whichever we can do, and provide a service to the community that is dispatched to Fire or Police and that is the only way we get dispatched. Like I said, it is voluntary. It is a tool that is put into action when called upon. Councilmember Yukimura: Because knowledge of terrain is so important, am I correct that you folks meet on weekends and go out as part of the training often or that team anyway? Mr. Pacheco: Yes. When I was a member of the team, we conducted training every Sunday throughout different parts of the island where we are allowed to bring our K-9s and work. We also did hikes in areas where we frequently get called to, one of them being Koke`e. We found that sometimes not being in the role of authority as Fire or Police, we could bring a little more comfort to family members and get a little more information out of them that assisted in the recovery or the rescue of an individual. I know one rescue in particular where it was just one phone call that made the biggest difference and it was a phone call to a friend of ours, who flew a helicopter that spotted the person on the ridge and that gave the Police and Fire direction to start the next day and the gentleman was found. Councilmember Yukimura: I am very impressed by the level of excellence for a voluntary group that plays such a key role. COUNCIL MEETING 16 MARCH 23, 2016 Mr. Pacheco: Thank you. Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you very much. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Any other questions? If not, thank you very much, Chad. Thank you for being here and thank you for your service in the community as well with the K-9. We will be having your resolution next week at the full council. Thank you. Mr. Pacheco: Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone wishing to testify on this appointment? If not, next item, please. CONSENT CALENDAR: C 2016-62 Communication (02/17/2016) from the Mayor, transmitting for Council consideration and confirmation, Mayoral appointee Gary A. Pacheco to the Liquor Control Commission — Term ending 12/31/2018: Councilmember Kagawa moved to receive C 2016-62 for the record, seconded by Councilmember Yukimura, and unanimously carried. C 2016-63 Communication (03/02/2016) from the Director of Finance, transmitting for Council information, the Period 7 Financial Reports — Detailed Budget Report, Statement of Revenues (Estimated and Actual), Statement of Expenditures and Encumbrances, and Revenue Report as of January 31, 2016, pursuant to Section 21 of Ordinance No. B-2015-796, relating to the Operating Budget of the County of Kaua`i for the Fiscal Year 2015-2016: Councilmember Kagawa moved to receive C 2016-63 for the record, seconded by Councilmember Yukimura, and unanimously carried. C 2016-64 Communication (03/10/2016) from Councilmember Kuali`i, providing written disclosure of a possible conflict of interest and recusal regarding Resolution No. 2016-30, Kaua`i County 2016 Action Plan (Community Development Block Grant), specifically item f. Economic Development by Workforce Development (Hawaiian Community Development Corporation), as he serves as President of the Homestead Community Development Corporation, and item g. Photovoltaic System & Air Conditioning Units for Family Violence Shelter (YWCA of Kaua`i), due to his employment with the YWCA of Kaua`i: Councilmember Kagawa moved to receive C 2016-64 for the record, seconded by Councilmember Yukimura, and unanimously carried. C 2016-65 Communication (02/19/2016) from the Deputy Director of Finance, transmitting for Council information, the 2016 Real Property Assessment List of the County of Kaua`i pursuant to Section 5A-2.2, Kaua`i County Code 1987, as amended: Councilmember Kagawa moved to receive C 2016-65 for the record, seconded by Councilmember Yukimura, and unanimously carried. C 2016-66 Communication (03/03/2016) from Council Chair Rapozo, transmitting for Council consideration, a Resolution appointing a representative and alternate to serve on the Executive Committee of the Hawai`i State Association COUNCIL MEETING 17 MARCH 23, 2016 of Counties (HSAC) for the term commencing July 1, 2016 through June 30, 2017, and nominating a representative to serve as a Board Member of the National Association of Counties (NACo), whose term will begin on the last day of the 2016 NACo Annual Conference, pursuant to Section 5 of the Bylaws of the Hawai`i State Association of Counties: Councilmember Kagawa moved to receive C 2016-66 for the record, seconded by Councilmember Yukimura, and unanimously carried. C 2016-67 Communication (03/11/2016) from the Director of Finance, transmitting for Council information, supplemental property tax revenue information pertaining to the estimated reduction in real property tax revenues resulting from the Home Preservation Limit and Very Low Income tax relief measure enacted by the Kaua`i County Council, based on the Real Property Assessment Certification for Fiscal Year 2017 factored with the existing real property tax rates: Councilmember Kagawa moved to receive C 2016-67 for the record, seconded by Councilmember Yukimura, and unanimously carried. C 2016-68 Communication (03/11/2016) from Councilmember Kuali`i, transmitting for Council consideration, a Resolution Expressing The Support Of The Council Of The County Of Kaua`i For The Proposed Adolescent Treatment And Healing Center: Councilmember Kagawa moved to receive C 2016-68 for the record, seconded by Councilmember Yukimura, and unanimously carried. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Next item, please. COMMUNICATIONS: C 2016-44 Communication (02/12/2016) from the Salary Commission, transmitting for Council information, the Salary Commission's Resolution No. 2016-01, Relating to the Salaries of Certain Officers and Employees of the County of Kaua`i for the Fiscal Year 2016-2017, which was adopted by the Salary Commission at its February 5, 2016 meeting. • Salary Commission Resolution No. 2016-1 Councilmember Yukimura moved to reject the Salary Commission's proposals from the Director of Economic Development through the Councilmembers, seconded by Councilmember Chock. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay, it has been moved and seconded. Let me pull up the communication. Any discussion before we open it up to public testimony? Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: I would like to reject all, so I do not know if I have to make a separate motion. Why are we going to reject half when we should remove all is my question? Council Chair Rapozo: We need to address the motion on the floor, which is the partial rejection. Councilmember Kagawa: So I am going to vote no on this, Chair. COUNCIL MEETING 18 MARCH 23, 2016 Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you, Chair. As I said before, I think we need to really acknowledge and properly compensate the executive level leadership in the County and that is why I am not moving to reject the first-half of the list, which includes the County Engineer, the Director of Finance, the Fire and Police Chiefs, the Planning Director, and the Water Engineer, because I think they are far below their counterparts in the marketplace and they have not received a raise for nine (9) years. They are incredibly critical positions for which we need to attract high-level talent, so I believe these salaries increases are very overdue and I believe we need to allow them to stand. I am moving to reject the bottom-half of the list, including the next Councilmembers in the next term because I feel that they are at levels that are pretty adequate. I have looked at comparisons across the State, and given our population and the demands of the job, they are not far off. I think they can stand for now and that is why I am moving to reject those. Council Chair Rapozo: Was your last point that you checked with other islands and the populations in regards to the Council Chair and Councilmembers? Councilmember Yukimura: No, it was for the positions in Economic Development, Liquor, Parks, Housing, Boards and Commissions, Clerk, Auditor, and County Council. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: First, I want to say that I agree with everything that you said about the majority of the salaries being underpaid and being well-deserved. The only part I disagree with you is whether or not we financially can afford to do it at this point in our life with the County's current fiscal situation. That is the only part I disagree with you on. Again, I agree with everything that you said, that they are underpaid and have not had a raise for nine (9) years, and to attract the best we should do it. I totally agree. The part I disagree with you on is whether we are currently financially able to commit those moneys, even whether it would be half or full. My question for you is do you believe that the Salary Commission did a great job on the first-half and then they screwed up the second-half? Councilmember Yukimura: No, I would not say that. I think the Salary Commission has done a really good job and excellent work. Councilmember Kagawa: So why change it? Councilmember Yukimura: First of all, for the reasons you are saying that we do not have enough money and I do not believe that the salaries that I am proposing to reject are far off other counties or even the counterparts in the market. Also, I am concerned about quality control in the process for selecting these and I do not have assurance that the process has been really thought through. Council Vice Chair, I believe we cannot afford not to allow the raises in the first-half. I think the level that we are setting for the County Engineer is like maybe just above entry level in the private sector. COUNCIL MEETING 19 MARCH 23, 2016 Councilmember Kagawa: Does our County Engineer have a license right now? Councilmember Yukimura: I do not think we do have a County Engineer right now. Councilmember Kagawa: We do have one, Lyle Tabata. Councilmember Yukimura: We have an Acting County Engineer. Councilmember Kagawa: So you are saying that he deserves the higher one? Councilmember Yukimura: No, we are not looking at each person, we are looking at position. I want to say that when I was the mayor, my salary was sixty thousand dollars ($60,000) twenty (20) years ago, and the County Engineer under me was much lower and I had the hardest time recruiting a competent County Engineer. We cannot raise it to the level probably that we need now to attract top level engineers, but at least we need to get it up to one hundred fourteen thousand dollars ($114,000). Councilmember Kagawa: You talked specifically about the County Engineer and we started getting into person into the position and I wanted to avoid that, so the way you avoid that is you take the full Salary Commission recommendation and you vote it up or down. If we are financially able to do it, then fine, we approve. You agreed with me that we are not financially able to do it, but then you still want to do half. It is like we are financially able to do half of the salaries. That is in between. We are either financially able to do it or we are not. Councilmember Yukimura: I guess I disagree. I am trying to look with more discernment at these categories and I feel we can get people from the private sector in these positions in the lower half, but I do not believe we can get really high-level talent in the upper-half without having these salaries that are being proposed by the Salary Commission. Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. Councilmember Yukimura: I am actually trying to balance your considerations of budget and money, and also looking at the need for proper compensation for the kind of quality and talent we need. Councilmember Kagawa: Well, if you are going to try and satisfy my needs then I would say to wait until the budget and wait until we see what financial position we are in before we commit any increases to our executive salaries, no matter how justified and worthwhile we see them to be. If not, I will ask that you amend the motion to ask to let us see whether the Council is willing to split up the vote. COUNCIL MEETING 20 MARCH 23, 2016 Councilmember Yukimura: Well, by my motion I am asking that. You could vote for this, and then also move to, assuming it passes, reject the upper-half and see if there are votes for that. Councilmember Kagawa: It is a totally different vote to vote no on half or to vote no on all. I want to vote no on all. Councilmember Yukimura: I know what you want to do. Councilmember Kagawa: So if you vote no to half, I will vote yes because I disagree with you. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Hang on—right now, the motion on the floor is to reject in part, which is from the Economic Development Director on down through the Council. That is what is on the floor right now. To reject that, there is a requirement of five (5) votes. Just so we understand, we are going to take a vote on this motion after we have the discussion. Five (5) votes will basically remove those raises from the resolution, and then we would then entertain what is being called the top-half. That is what is on the floor right now, the rejection of the Director of Economic Development, Director of Liquor Control, Director of Parks and Recreation, Deputy Director of Parks and Recreation, Director of Housing, Boards and Commissions Administrator, County Clerk, Deputy County Clerk, County Auditor, Council Chair, and Councilmembers. Councilmember Hooser. Councilmember Hooser: I have a process question. Are we going to be deliberating and debating before the public testimony, and then after the public testimony also? Council Chair Rapozo: No. Actually, I wanted to give Councilmember Yukimura an opportunity to explain her motion and I am not going deny the discussion. We will open it up to public testimony before we take the vote. Councilmember Hooser: Okay. I will hold mine until afterwards, otherwise I get two (2) bites at the apple I guess. Council Chair Rapozo: This is one of the few times because it is basically a question and answer between members. I want to make sure that everyone understands the reasons for the motion and I think there are some good questions the Councilmember Kagawa asked and valid concerns and points made by Councilmember Yukimura as well. Any other discussion before we open it up for public testimony? Again, the motion on the floor is the rejection of salaries from the Director of Economic Development down to the Councilmembers. With that, I will suspend the rules with no objections. Anyone in the audience wishing to testify? Mr. Bernabe. There being no objections, the rules were suspended. MATTHEW BERNABE: Matt Bernabe for the record. I want to start off with saying that if the justification, which I agree with, is to attract the best so that we can run more efficiently, I actually support that one hundred percent (100%). With that said, this means we have to adopt the best practices shown by COUNCIL MEETING 21 MARCH 23, 2016 the county manager's presentations. We have to do that and we have to put it in the County Charter. We have to make enforceable standards that force the department heads of all departments, mainly Human Resources, to be qualified in their field and be able to function. We should be able to judge this on job performance, and like I said again, with concrete standards; that are written in and not changeable if you like the person or if it is a different department. We need to really tighten the belt here. Since I have been coming here and talking to you folks on this very public visual display of county civics, the county process, I have actually had a lot of employees that are really good employees. The thing I keep hearing is that when they are out in the field—and they are the eyes and ears; these are our people—and there is a discrepancy or even if it is something small that is just routine, when they report it through the channels, there is no processing nerve center that is functioning. That is evident. We talk about it here all the time. Very highly outspoken. You can play the ping pong game and not figure the problem out, but I am about figuring the problem out, so I have talked to these people and I have come and watched for the last two (2) years. Before that, I was asleep. It really, really is obvious, not only to myself because this is so public...lots of people watch this...that we actually have to upgrade the County Charter that was written years ago when we were still being formed under the shadow of the plantation eras. Those are the facts. You folks are here today and you want to give them raises then put some concrete standards for these department heads. Let us get some safeguard in here. I am all for the raises. Ms. Cowden: Felicia Cowden for the record. I want to acknowledge that it is very difficult because there is not enough money, so I just want to make an observation. I am really heart-warmed to see all of the beautiful, young people that come into Planning, the County Attorney's Office, and Engineering. We have some really good people that come in and I think because of what they are paid, the County becomes very vulnerable to having the best of them picked off once they understand and have competence, capability, and connections. We see development typically hires those planners and attorneys—I am coming back to sports; every time I look on this side, I want to talk sports—it is like the highest draft or whatever, the best players get pulled into the opposite team from the people because our strong players are underpaid. When Councilmember Yukimura says we almost cannot afford to not do it, I get that and when Councilmember Kagawa says that we have to look at this holistically...that is what I am hearing you say, that you want to hold off until the budget. Do I have that right? Okay. It is important, but unfortunately we seem to do things sequentially instead of holistically. I am just making that comment that I am getting that if you do not give people what they deserve, you lose those really key people and we lose them just as they are rising to their real strong ability and they join the team of the people who we are taking from the public. Good luck with your decision. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. MARY KAY HERTOG, Vice Chair of the Police Commission: I had not planned to speak, but I am always up for talking. Mary Kay Hertog, Vice Chair for the Police Commission. You all have a very tough job, as our previous speakers have indicated. You have to keep this County solvent and attract great people to work in all departments and you have to retain them. This is what the Salary Commission fight has been all about. You both have great arguments. Can we COUNCIL MEETING 22 MARCH 23, 2016 afford to do it? Can we afford not do it? I do want to assure the County that we do have very high standards and requirements for the Police Chiefs position that I went over in my previous testimony a couple of weeks ago. We have established those standards and our rating system for them. My concern is that if we do not do something now, even if it is incremental, the public will see this, I think, as a slap in the face to the people who occupy these positions. Some progress is better than no progress whatsoever, and then we can perhaps tackle this incrementally, because yes you do need to see what the final budget figures are. This is a problem that is not going to get better with age. It is already eight (8) or nine (9) years into it and if we continue to kick this can down the road, these gaps in pay are going to get higher and higher. I would ask you to consider tackling this incrementally so we can at least start working the problem. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. KEN TAYLOR: Chair and Members of the Council, Ken Taylor. While I know it is always nice to have the brightest and the best, sometimes it is not affordable. Unfortunately, we are at a time when we seem to have the cart before the horse. We have budget hearings coming up very soon and you are now talking about raising salaries and I think what you should do is to go into the budget hearings before you approve this, show the community where and how these raises would be paid for, and then consider whether the raises can be afforded or not. I get disturbed when we compare ourselves to the other islands in Hawai`i because they are all much larger in population than we are. Consequently, they have considerably more income than we do, so it is really difficult to make comparisons of Kaua`i against Maui, Hawai`i, and O`ahu. I think it is really important that if you are going to give these raises, and I am not arguing against them, I am only asking if we can afford them, where will the money come from, and what other services will have to be curtailed in order to move forward with these increases? I think the community has a right to know and understand where you are going with this financial decision before you make it. I hope that you will go into budget hearings and discuss this issue thoroughly, and then make the final decision at that point in time. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Next speaker. ROBERT CROWELL, Member of the Salary Commission: Good morning, Council. I am Bob Crowell, a Member of the Salary Commission. I just wanted to express a few comments related to the resolution. Under the leadership of Charlie King and Sheri Kunioka-Volz, this commission worked very hard on these recommendations before you since last July. Also with the guidance of our staff like Jay, as well as Barbara Davis, we met on a number of occasions and did extensive research that included comparable salaries of different county departments, directors, and chiefs throughout the State. We looked at differences in department responsibilities and sizes. The research also included your salaries, Council salaries. We feel what is being recommended is fair and equitable to attract and retain excellent, well-qualified candidates for these demanding positions. Please remember these are only salary caps. These caps have not been raised or increased since 2009, a period of seven (7) years, except for the Police and Fire Chief. Now the actual salaries will be dependent on the appropriate appointing authority, whether it be a board or commission, the Council, or the Mayor. I hear a lot of talk about COUNCIL MEETING 23 MARCH 23, 2016 money. In our discussions at the commission, the question would always come up: can Kaua`i County afford department head salary increases? We were assured by this Administration that they would look to see that money would be appropriated if there was an increase recommendation. I would hope that the Council would hold the Administration's feet to the fire if, in fact, that is true. We were happy to learn that after operational cuts, I understand the Mayor's balanced budget does actually include all of these proposed raises that you have before you. It is never a good time to raise salaries; however, we feel at this time, these increases are modest enough to tolerate. I would ask that we do not let ourselves get behind the proverbial "eight-ball." While we may be ahead of some departments on Hawai`i island, we do not know what their salary commission is recommending this year. Also, as part of our deliberations, we looked at the tier structure: license requirements, advance degree requirements, as well as department sizes and responsibilities. We feel we can move on with this structure at this time. For these reasons, I ask that you approve the recommendation of the Salary Commission in its entirety. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much. Mr. Crowell is here as a Member of the Salary Commission and he is able to answer questions if Councilmembers have questions. If not, thank you very much. Anyone else? Mayor. BERNARD P. CARVALHO, Jr., Mayor: Good morning, Council Chair, Vice Chair, and Councilmembers. I sat here before and you know what my feelings are, as articulated by Mr. Crowell. I really appreciate the work of the Salary Commission. As you just heard, they have done extensive work. They have answered and extended the opportunity to vet out many of the parts of this discussion that you folks have concerns about. So I am sitting here to tell you once again, to ask you once again, to support the Resolution in its entirety. Our Salary Commission has done an extensive overview, as Mr. Crowell has just stated; I am going to restate that. Job performance—I sit before you as Mayor, as my responsibility to manage the operational part of this County. I have assembled a team of well-qualified men and women who have put their hearts and souls on the table. Some may not have certain licenses; however, the responsibility of each of the various departments...it would not sit with me and look at the different responsibilities of every single department, you will see how much impact each department has in various areas. It is important for you, I believe, and I know we are not talking about certain people, but the structure and what the positions mean to make things happen for the people that we serve—it is important...I made the decision back in 2009...I made the decision as Mayor to freeze all salaries, because at that time, we were going through furloughs and I do not want to go back there, but now it is seven (7) years later and if I would have sit with each of you, one-by-one, with each one of our department heads, I can tell you all the responsible areas that they have done, everything that they have engaged with, the community part, the embracing part; the duties and responsibilities of every department. All we are trying to do is get to a place. It is never the right time, I believe, but I believe now is the right time because we can continue to say that. So I humbly ask again as Mayor, knowing what the responsibility of the operational functions of this County are, and its men and women that need to do their work, I believe that this is the right time. We submitted our Fiscal Year 2017 budget to you one (1) day early, so if you look into that budget, we have covered the costs. We have looked at it internally, we have listened to you, and we have incorporated some of the thoughts COUNCIL MEETING 24 MARCH 23, 2016 and suggestions that you have that we looked into. So look into the budget itself and you will see that we have covered the costs for the entire part of this Resolution that our Salary Commission has done a wonderful job and extensive work in making it happen. I just wanted to say that again and be assured that I will, as Mayor, look at every position from this day forward and do evaluations as necessary. That is my responsibility, to evaluate every one of our team members and assure that they are doing what they need to do. If they are not, that is my responsibility. But for this discussion, again, I implore you to support this Resolution in its entirety because the work that has gone into from the Salary Commission to make it fair, to find balance, and to assure that we are in the right time, in the right place and what we need to do to support this overall piece for our men and women who do great work for our County. Thank you so much for the opportunity, Chair. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you, Mayor. Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: Mayor, Maui's population is more than two (2) times Kaua`i's, but their economic development director would make less than ours if the proposed raises are approved, and Hawai`i County's population is almost three (3) times more than ours, but their economic development director's salary would be ten thousand dollars ($10,000) less. How do you justify the proposed raises? Mr. Carvalho: I justify the raise by whoever is in that position and the work that they do and the volume of work. That is how I do it. Councilmember Yukimura: We are not talking about the people in the position. Mr. Carvalho: No, I said the position itself. Councilmember Yukimura: Right. Mr. Carvalho: Yes. Councilmember Yukimura: What is the process by which you used to choose Economic Development Director and Parks and Recreation Director? Mr. Carvalho: The same way I do with every other... Councilmember Yukimura: Do you advertise it? Mr. Carvalho: We advertise. Councilmember Yukimura: You do? Mr. Carvalho: Yes. Councilmember Yukimura: Did you with the last choices? COUNCIL MEETING 25 MARCH 23, 2016 Mr. Carvalho: For Economic Development, I do not think we advertised. Councilmember Yukimura: What about Parks and Recreation? Mr. Carvalho: Did we advertise? No, I do not think we advertised, but that is the choice that I have as Mayor. I can advertise or not. I looked for qualified people who understand their responsibilities and who have an extensive background in the subject matter. That is my responsibility of whether I go out or not. As Mayor, I feel strongly that the people that surround me are totally qualified. I am sorry, Councilmember Yukimura, but that is how I choose to manage myself. You were the mayor before, so you know. This is my time and I know what I have to do. I feel very confident in the people that surround me because they are qualified. They might not have all of the things that you are thinking about, but I can tell you that sometimes we go out and sometimes we do not, but that is my choice. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kuali`i. Councilmember Kuali`i: Hi, Mayor. Thank you for being here. Mr. Carvalho: Aloha. Councilmember Kuali`i: By your testimony, you seem to be saying to the public that my Administration, we the County, can afford these raises to fifty-four (54) of the highest paid leaders of this County in the Administration, more or less one hundred thousand dollar ($100,000) positions. In saying that the County can afford it, what is to say to the County coming before the Council and the people and saying that we need a General Excise Tax (GET) increase to raise one hundred million dollars ($100,000,000) or more to deal with our maintenance of roads and backlog? It seems to me as if we have such a big liability in that need to service the public with the road maintenance, so much so that we are considering raising taxes. So how can we give any kind of raises, especially to the leaders who are supposed to be setting the example? The average citizen taxpayer out there would believe that one hundred thousand dollars ($100,000) is enough to get by on this island and maybe it is not ideal and the best situation—somebody said to attract the brightest and the best, but maybe this County has to tighten its straps. So what can you say about the budget and the GET versus giving raises to the fifty-four (54) highest leaders? Mr. Carvalho: Councilmember, we did submit to you a balanced budget. We did look internally and took some of your suggestions. Yes, it counts in a different pot, if you will. The GET is the GET and salaries is salaries, but what we are talking about today on the floor is the men and women that make things happen, get things done, and answers a lot of your questions and follow-up on a lot of stuff that you folks need. Again, I am just following the great work of our Salary Commission. It has been seven (7) years and all we are asking is to get it to that point and I am committing to you that I will continue to evaluate each position accordingly to my standards and we will make sure that whoever is in that particular position with that responsibility will be able to manage their departments according. I would encourage you to look at the budget. COUNCIL MEETING 26 MARCH 23, 2016 Councilmember Kuali`i: Thank you. I get that you say you submitted a balanced budget, but in principle, are you saying that these raises are so important to you that if it needed to be you would raise taxes to pay these raises? Mr. Carvalho: I believe we do not have to raise taxes for the raises because if you look at what we have submitted, we will be able to work it both ways. Councilmember Kuali`i: For this County going forward, we do not need to raise any taxes at all for our bottom-line budget? Mr. Carvalho: I would prefer to wait to get into the discussions of our budget process because at that time, Councilmember, we can explain to you in-depth on where we are at, why we did what we did, and what sources of funding are coming. It is all there and I have my team ready to answer any questions. For today, all I am asking is for your support on the Salary Commission's submittal in its entirety. Thank you so much. Councilmember Kuali`i: Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Hooser. Councilmember Hooser: Thank you for being here. I truly appreciate your passion and support that you give to people that work for the County and work directly with you. I sincerely do appreciate that. My concerns go to the ability to pay and I understand and disagree with the language that we have a balanced budget and there are no tax increases. Is it true that the taxes for many residents will pay more taxes next year than paid this year? Is that true? Is the County balancing its budget, partially at least, on these increased taxes from residents? KEN M. SHIMONISHI, Director of Finance: Ken Shimonishi, Director of Finance. In the budget message, we do address the fact that real property taxes have increased six million four hundred thousand dollars ($6,400,000). A very, very small fraction of that is coming from the Homestead Class, a one point six eight percent (1.68%) increase over last year. This would also be including new properties that come into that classification. When you consider those factors, I think the County, Council, and the Administration have done an excellent job in terms of sheltering the residents of Kaua`i from real property tax increases. If I could just go back and clarify, there was discussion on the GET surcharge and as you know, the Legislature passed the counties the authority to limit the surcharge and that surcharge is specific towards highways, public transportation systems, roads, et cetera. The increases or the recommendations by the Salary Commission are all General Fund money, except for the Liquor Control Department. Again, we need to make that distinction between what the GET's purpose is for, which is the backlog in all of the road repair work and bridge work that the Department of Public Works has identified et cetera, versus what the Salary Commission has proposed, which would be funded primarily by the General Fund. Councilmember Hooser: I have one more question. I believe in your budget message, and correct me if I am wrong, but you mentioned that part of COUNCIL MEETING 27 MARCH 23, 2016 balancing the budget was predicated on action by the Legislature and if that action did not occur, it would result in an additional one million six hundred thousand dollars ($1,600,000) that we would have to find somehow. Did I get that right? Mr. Shimonishi: That portion you are talking about relates to the Transient Accommodations Tax (TAT). Currently, the counties are capped at one hundred three million dollars ($103,000,000). There is a bill in the Legislature to continue the one hundred three million dollars ($103,000,000) permanently and reestablish the working group in 2022. Without the passage of that bill, the cap would be reduced to ninety-three million dollars ($93,000,000) and that is where we would have a shortfall of one million four hundred thousand dollars ($1,400,000). Councilmember Hooser: I know we are not in the budget discussions, we are getting there, but because several of our votes or decisions are based on the ability to pay, if that bill does not pass then that means we will have to have further cuts or raise taxes to cover that shortfall. Is that correct? Mr. Shimonishi: Not necessarily. We have gone from two (2) extremes since I have started here. In processing the Fiscal Year 2013 budget, we used eighteen million dollars ($18,000,000) plus of Fund Balance in order to balance and in this current budget submittal, we are actually proposing to increase that Fund Balance tentatively, given the fact that we have these discussions going on now. We have gone from relying on our Fund Balance or our savings heavily to now not relying on that at all thus far. As we work with our Government Finance Officers Association (GFOA) consultants on our long-term financial planning as we get more astute into the use of Fund Balance, it may be in fact that we are too stringent on the use of Fund Balance, because clearly one of the allowed uses is to fund one-time expenditures that are in our budget that we have chosen not to use the Fund Balance thus far. That, in and of itself, would need to be looked and how much of the Fund Balance should we allow ourselves to use each year going forward in order to fund because we know that we lapse certain funds or we may collect more revenue than what is budgeted. Last year, we had an actual increase to the Unassigned Fund Balance of over seven million dollars ($7,000,000). I am projecting that we would also see an increase in the Fund Balance ending of 2016, given the fact that we were able to balance 2016's budget only one hundred twenty-six thousand dollars ($126,000) in Fund Balance being used, which is virtually a break-even type of sustainable budget. Our revenues cover our expenses and our transfers out of the General Fund. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. We are going hear all of this again tomorrow and we are going to hear all of this for the next three (3) or four (4), however long we are going to be in budget, but I appreciate you answering our questions. My head is hurting right now. Thank you for that. Anymore questions of the Mayor or Ken? Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: I am wondering if you realize and talked to all of your supporters that this is a very unique vote because you win with three (3) votes. So you had your three (3) votes last week in committee; why try and discuss it further? To me you are hurting your chances. All you need is one (1) person to swing over the other way, Councilmember Chock or Councilmember Kaneshiro swings our way, and you folks lose everything. You folks already won last week. I COUNCIL MEETING 28 MARCH 23, 2016 do not see the strategy and I do not see the strategy in the minority member of the three (3) trying to amend our bill. You are lucky that you are getting away winning with three (3) and you further included this bill to suit your needs. You want to be the power player, even though you are the member of three (3) that are going win. Do you folks realize that? When you win, you just take the win, right? Mr. Carvalho: We are ready for the win. Council Chair Rapozo: That is the athlete in Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: I do not know if you can answer to that, but I do not see the strategy. Mr. Shimonishi: Councilmember Kagawa, thank you for the comments. Again, I just thought it was important to come up here and clarify statements made and questions asked by the Councilmembers. I am not here to say that we are winning. Mr. Carvalho: It is not a win or lose thing. We are just trying to support. Council Chair Rapozo: Exactly. Mr. Carvalho: I was asked questions about the budget's specifics. So I am here to speak about this? Council Chair Rapozo: We appreciate the candid discussion. That is helpful. Mr. Carvalho: Yes. Council Chair Rapozo: Any other questions? Councilmember Kuali`i. Councilmember Kuali`i: I just wanted to follow-up because Mr. Shimonishi, Finance Director, talked about the GET and how it is the Legislature that put this opportunity forward so that if we can raise the tax, then we could use that because it is earmarked for road repairs; however, it has been talked about a lot now about one hundred million dollar ($100,000,000) backlog of these road repairs, and we have to do that whether we have the GET or not, right? So in the budget going forward, are we budgeting without the GET to tackle that road maintenance issue and how are we coming up with the money without the GET to address the road issue? Mr. Shimonishi: I apologize, Council Chair Rapozo, but my questions are relating to budget. Council Chair Rapozo: Let me just interject because I do not want to get into a whole detailed discussion, but I guess the question, and this is one of my questions as well, is how is the County prepared today, regardless of what COUNCIL MEETING 29 MARCH 23, 2016 happens...I think Councilmember Kuali`i said regardless of the GET, is the County in a position to sustain these increases going forward? I know this year you submitted how you plan to fund it or the cuts that were made that could fund this, but what about going forward the next year and the next year, and the next year. Again, keep in mind that Councilmember Kuali`i has brought up the fact that if the GET and TAT does not pass. Those things are all moving targets. We really do not know how the County plans to sustain the increases. Mr. Shimonishi: Again, the budget is a dynamic process. It has to be looked at each year and decisions are made about what we are funding and what we are not funding, collective bargaining impacts, and so on. That is just the reality of how we move forward. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kuali`i. I am not sure if that answered your question. Councilmember Kuali`i: You made it sound like the GET is the answer, but I want to say without the GET, you are budgeting to deal with the backlog of road repairs, and to deal with it in a meaningful and significant way so that the people can see a difference. I do not want the excuse to say, "Well, we did not get the GET so we cannot do this," because that comes back to the bottom-line budgeting and to not giving raises and using that six hundred thousand dollar ($600,000) to seven hundred thousand dollar ($700,000) difference every year to go to the roads if we have to. Our budget is all about priorities and what is critical and what is important. I want to hear that. I want to hear are we, without the GET, addressing the one hundred million dollar ($100,000,000) backlog and are we addressing it in a meaningful way that you plan to do only if you get the GET? Mr. Shimonishi: I do not believe that I said the GET was the answer to the budget. But just to be clear, the County has budgeted one million two hundred thousand dollars ($1,200,000) a year towards this roadwork, as we said before, and we tried to double that on the subsequent year and carry that balance forward. The fact is that is the financial constraints that we operate under. Now if we are choosing to use General Fund money, basically property taxes and transient accommodations tax, and to push those moneys into our Highway Fund to further our road repair efforts, then yes, that can be done. That is also available to the Council to do so with the budget that is in front of you. That obviously puts a heavier burden on the real property taxpayers. There are only so many places that we have revenue sources that we can draw upon. Again, the whole road repair/bridge repair, I would leave towards the Department of Public Works to answer about what is the plan or how do we accomplish our goals? Councilmember Kuali`i: You are saying that by the financial constraints that we are operating under, you are basically saying that we cannot afford to do the type of road maintenance and repair that we need to do, not with the current budget. Is that correct? Mr. Shimonishi: I think the needs will always outweigh the resources based on where we currently are, correct. Councilmember Kuali`i: Thank you. COUNCIL MEETING 30 MARCH 23, 2016 Council Chair Rapozo: Any other questions? If not, thank you very much. Mr. Trask. It is always a surprise when he pops up here, but I am assuming it is something that you want us to know. Councilmember Kagawa: Can we have Mauna Kea address just for clarity for the public and everybody watching on television and online what kind of vote is needed today in order to have any portion amended or passed or what have you, because it is highly unusual. It is the only part of the Charter that I strongly disagree with that they set it up this way, because in any action a 4:3 vote is the minimal to win and a budgetary act with large implications or to override the veto you need a supermajority. In this case, it comes before the Council and a vote of three (3) wins. It is a "scratch your head" moment really. Can Mauna Kea explain that? Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, I am sure he can, but I think last week or when this this was on, I explained that was intended so that the Salary Commission would have that edge and that majority, so basically keeping the politics, if you will, out of it and just giving their work the due. It is actually more difficult to kill a Salary Commission proposal than it is to pass it. Mr. Trask, can you explain that, but first I am dying to find out what you wanted to tell us first that got you to come up, and then you can go to the voting. Mr. Trask: They actually relate. For the record, Mauna Kea Trask, County Attorney. If I may, I would like to begin with answering Councilmember Kagawa's question because it enfolds nicely. According to my research, the County has gone through the salary setting process numerous different ways and it has been discussed on the floor before. Before it was a certain percentage that the Mayor always got a certain percentage more than the highest paid civil servant and has gone through different iterations or since the Charter was formed in the 60s. In this case, the Chair is correct. The Salary Commission was created, it appears in 1988, in order to take the politics out of the process, specifically mayoral politics and council politics. The idea was in line like the county manager and scientific management principles; you put people unelected who serve gratis for no compensation and they would look at specifically salary issues and what is needed to attract, specifically attract certain level of persons to certain high-level positions. So they thought in order to effectuate this, the best would be for the commission to adopt this resolution and for that resolution setting simply the maximum allowable salary, not setting or allocating the salary; just setting the maximum theoretical value of the salary via passage of a resolution. The only way that could be stopped was via one motion, which is a motion to reject. It is not an act that needs to be adopted either by Council or the Mayor; it takes effect on its own, unless specifically rejected by the Council via supermajority vote of five (5). It looks like the reason why it was done that way was to best take the politics out. Now that is always questionable on how it can be done, but that is the situation. Now moving onto what I wanted to discuss before...as said on the floor, there has been a lot said involving both the Salary Commission Resolution and the budget. All I wanted to do was just clarify for the record that they are two (2) different things. This Salary Commission Resolution does not give anyone salary raises. What it does is raises the theoretical cap of the maximum that can be paid. It is very important, because as Councilmember Kagawa, Councilmember Kuali`i, COUNCIL MEETING 31 MARCH 23, 2016 and this body has stated in various ways, this is not the budget. You do not pay these salaries right now. The appointing authority, if you look at Section 29.03, "The respective appointing authority may set the salary of an appointee at a figure lower than the maximum figure established by the Salary Commission for the position. When you have the Police Commission here, they set the salary of the Police Chief. You do not set that. Salary Commission definitely does not set that. The appointing authority does. For instance, you, the Council body, are the appointing authority for the County Auditor. You set that salary cap and you may set it lower, depending. Like the Mayor said, administrators under his authority forwent salary increases as the appointing authority, said no one is getting raises and that was done. Furthermore, it has been discussed on the floor previously that certain people are remiss to take salaries. They do not feel comfortable adopting this Resolution or not rejecting it because they do not think they are entitled to. I just want to point out again that elected officers under the Salary Commission, Section 29.03, "Elected officers may voluntarily accept a salary lower than the maximum figure established by the Salary Commission for their position or forego accepting a salary." I want to make sure this is clear because for you, the audience, and the public, this is not the budget process. The budget process is separate and apart, and as the controller of the purse springs, this body ultimately via supermajority override of a mayoral veto whether in total or a line item. The Council controls the purse strings. The Salary Commission does not. This Resolution does not control the purse strings and does not divest you of that authority. You still have that budget process and the budget process is the appropriate point to go through with that legislative procedure. Again, the Salary Commission today sets the maximum theoretical value, but when questions come up as far as the ability to pay, what we have heard today, ability to pay various funds and various actions by the State, that is done at budget process and this does not divest you of that authority. That is what I wanted to make clear. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: If this is just theoretical, can we change whatever we want to for the salary of these various executive positions in the budget? Mr. Trask: The budget process proceeds according to the budget rules in and of itself. Councilmember Yukimura: Does it not proceed according to the Salary Commission Resolution? Mr. Trask: The Salary Commission Resolution is the maximum that can be allotted. Councilmember Yukimura: So what is indicated in the budget, the maximum or the actual? Mr. Trask: I do not have the budget before me. Again, that is a budget discussion. What I wanted to address was the big picture. This is not the budgetary process. For example, if there is a shortfall or the State all of a sudden say, "County, there is no TAT, you do not get anything. Not only do you not COUNCIL MEETING 32 MARCH 23, 2016 get status quo, we are taking it all because the rail is torpedoing and we have to fund the whole thing." Council Chair Rapozo: Hypothetically now. Mr. Trask: Whatever it would be, then you would be facing that huge shortfall, so you and the budget process would have to make extremely hard calls, and then you would have to decide whether or not you can afford whatever that is. The salary maximum would still be available, but nonetheless, the money you would have may or may not cover that. That is the budget process, which is separate. Councilmember Yukimura: I would like to ask Mr. Shimonishi a question as to the relationship between the Salary Commission Resolution and the budget, please. Council Chair Rapozo: Well, I do not know. Is it a legal question? Councilmember Yukimura: It is related to the opinion that the County Attorney has just rendered, but it addresses the financial aspect of it. Council Chair Rapozo: Ken. Mr. Trask is saying, and he did specify with five (5) votes, at any budget session, we could take any of these positions and cut the salary. If we did not fund it, they could not pay it. Obviously, the Mayor would veto and that is why I think Mr. Trask mentioned the five (5) votes so we would override the veto. At any time in the budget process, this Council can reduce the salary, simply by not funding it. The department would be able to, and Ken correct me if I am wrong, transfer funds from another part of that department over to fill that salary gap. So in some sense, we really do not have that control. We cannot fully fund the position, but at some point, the Administration would be able to fix that. Councilmember Yukimura: May I ask my question? Council Chair Rapozo: Do you want me to say yes? Councilmember Yukimura: Ken, can you refresh my memory? I think it came up when we were dealing with attorneys. Do we put in the amount that is in the Salary Commission Resolution, the maximum, or do we put what is actually the salary? Mr. Shimonishi: I believe there is actually a variation of that whereby salaries are budgeted closer to what they actually are, at least I know that for the Prosecuting Attorney's Office, as well as they may have included a hedge, but not at the maximum on the Salary Commission Resolution...not necessarily at the maximum is what I should say. Councilmember Yukimura: So what is put in the line items for these positions that are in the Salary Commission Resolution is based on the department head or the Mayor in terms of what the person is actually getting and may get in the future, but not necessarily the maximum? COUNCIL MEETING 33 MARCH 23, 2016 Mr. Shimonishi: That is correct. Councilmember Yukimura: For example, if the Salary Commission's proposal is affirmed or is allowed to stand, then for any one of the positions that do get the increase, what is reflected in the budget? Is it their actual level or the level in the Salary Commission Resolution? Council Chair Rapozo: He just said that it is a variation. Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. Council Chair Rapozo: Some department heads...we see it every year...for some reason the attorneys, both sides, will put the salary that they expect to pay. Some department heads put the maximum. At the end of the day, it is up to the department and how they submit their budget. Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you. If the Council, in its discretion or judgment, decides to remove the salary, cut it in half, or set it at a level that the majority feels is appropriate and it is less than the amount that has been authorized by the Salary Commission Resolution, maybe Mauna Kea, is that legal? Secondly, if it is legal, are we still obligated to pay that amount to the person? Does that mean that the department takes from somewhere else? Mr. Trask: Under Section 19.07(a) of the Charter, it states, "Upon the conclusion of the budget hearings, the council may reduce any item or items in the mayor's proposed budget by a majority vote, it may increase any item or items therein, or add new items thereto by an affirmative vote of two-thirds of the entire membership. The Council shall pass on final reading the annual budget ordinance on or before the seventh day..." That is what the Charter says and all I am trying to reiterate to you is that the budgetary process is separate. This is the Salary Commission Resolution process. Councilmember Yukimura: Mauna Kea, if the amount we owe some company or person is not put in the budget, what happens? Mr. Trask: They quit and we have seen that. Councilmember Yukimura: Or they sue us. So are you saying that the Council can reduce a salary, even though it is legally owed? Mr. Trask: I cannot answer that question. I apologize, I am not trying to be evasive, but when you say "legally owed," everything is subject to appropriations by the Council and all I am trying to do is just make a clarification because so much has been said on the record here today. It is very difficult to answer these questions specifically when you use legal terms of art, et cetera. All I can tell you is that...I know that if I cannot pay some deputy county attorneys a certain amount and the Council does not appropriate that amount of money for me, then they will quit because they can get better jobs elsewhere. They have offers elsewhere and they have left because they see that...the County provides no partnership tracks. The County does not provide a lot of stuff. Talk COUNCIL MEETING 34 MARCH 23, 2016 was about, "Well, we have twenty-one (21) days of vacation." I will tell you that attorneys do not take vacation because whether or not you take it, you have to meet your deadline anyway. Council Chair Rapozo: Mauna Kea, I would just ask you to speak to the legal argument and not the defending of your office. I appreciate that because I think in some sense I agree, but really, you came up to explain some legal stuff. The lobbying can be done at a later time when you testify in your personal capacity. I do not mean to interrupt, but I see the passion. Councilmember Chock. Councilmember Chock: Thank you, Chair. Councilmember Yukimura: I did not get my second answer. Council Chair Rapozo: I am sorry. Go ahead, Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: I asked Ken a question. Mr. Shimonishi: I think this was addressed at the previous meeting where we do have the authority, as I understand it, to move funds within our department, within the accounts that are established, provided funds are available. Yes, we could, in fact, increase where needed or decrease as well. Councilmember Yukimura: If we are legally obligated to pay it, we have to pay it somehow. Mr. Shimonishi: I would think so, yes. Council Chair Rapozo: The only legal obligation would be a contract. Councilmember Yukimura: A salary certification, I would guess. It is not Janine? Mr. Trask: I would like to hold off right now. We really should discuss this stuff...we are talking about legal obligations and financial things on the floor. I would rather talk about this in Executive Session. I think to make that call, I am not comfortable to say that a salary certification or the lack of a contract with someone entitles anyone to anything in the budgetary process. I would have to do the analysis and research. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Let us not overcomplicate this Resolution. It is very simple. If you agree with it, you vote. If not, you do not. It is that simple. Councilmember Chock. Councilmember Chock: Thank you, Chair. We sent over questions and a request for how these increases were going to be funded, so I am looking at "Attachment A." Are we saying that the proposed cuts that are listed here, do they include a maximum of the salary increases that we are looking at? If this is how you are going fund it, does this include the maximum increases? COUNCIL MEETING 35 MARCH 23, 2016 Mr. Shimonishi: Correct. That is the difference between what currently is versus what was proposed, as well as factoring in some amounts for benefits. Councilmember Chock: Okay. So what I am hearing just to confirm, Mauna Kea, is that if we disagree with funding this from a budgetary standpoint, then essentially we can utilize this or hold this funding that you folks have identified here because that is within our purview to no longer fund any increases in the salaries moving forward? Is that correct? Mr. Trask: What I am saying is that the passage of this Salary Commission Resolution does not divest this body of its budgetary authority and whatever that means specifically. That is all I am prepared to say today, but I want to make it clear for the record because it is not clear. I just want to make sure that this body knows that the Salary Commission is not taking away your authority to budget. Your authority to budget is your authority to budget. Council Chair Rapozo: Any other questions? Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: If this body allows the salary raises to stand, does it not then obligate us to pay it when it comes to budget time? Mr. Trask: I do not think so. If I am understanding this correctly, say you were even to budget one hundred fourteen thousand dollars ($114,000) for the County Attorney's salary, just for discussion purposes, the Mayor could say, "Mauna Kea, you are doing a pretty good job, but you do not deserve one hundred fourteen thousand dollars ($114,000). I am going to give you...let us see how much you do. Let us see you stick on and see you continue the litigation and see how that goes." I cannot claim that. As the appointing authority, I cannot claim that I am entitled to the one hundred fourteen thousand dollars ($114,000). The Charter itself says the appointing authority may set it less. Councilmember Yukimura: That is not my question, Mauna Kea. I am not talking about the Mayor's discretion. If the Council allows the salary raises to stand, we need to be ready to pay for them if they are set at whatever level they are set, up to the maximum that has been authorized. Is that not correct? Mr. Trask: Let me talk generally. It is difficult for me to say that, but to speak specifically, let us look at a position that is under your purview: the County Auditor. The County Auditor is set to get an increase of one hundred nineteen thousand dollars ($119,000). If you as the appointing authority says, "Look, we cannot afford that. We are only going to budget up to one hundred fifty thousand dollars ($150,000)..." Councilmember Yukimura: Mauna Kea, I am sorry. I am not talking about the powers of the appointing authority; I am talking about the power of the Council to let stand or reject the maximum levels of the executive salaries that are included in this Resolution. COUNCIL MEETING 36 MARCH 23, 2016 Council Chair Rapozo: Let me give you a hypothetical or a scenario. The Mayor sends over the budget for the County Attorney's salary at one hundred fourteen thousand dollars ($114,000) and the Council says, "No. Let us make it one hundred eight thousand dollars ($108,000)." What happens? I think Councilmember Yukimura is asking what our authority is if we say, "No, we are not funding it," and there was a Salary Commission Resolution that was passed at the maximum and the Mayor has sent over his budget that pays you the maximum and the Council says, "No, we do not want to pay the maximum." Mr. Trask: Under the Charter, Section 19.07(a), you may reduce any item or items in the Mayor's proposed budget by a majority vote and may increase any items or add new items thereto. Your budgetary power still stands. Council Chair Rapozo: That is what I heard earlier. Mr. Trask: If that is what you are asking, then that is what it is. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Does it make sense? Any more questions? We need to take a caption break, so I just want to get these people off of the stand. Does anyone else have any questions? If not, thank you very much. Anyone else wishing to testify on this matter? We still have public testimony. With that, we will take a ten (10) minute recess. There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 10:30 a.m. The meeting reconvened at 10:42 a.m., and proceeded as follows: Council Chair Rapozo: The meeting is called back to order. Is there anyone who wanted to testify for the first time? If not, second time? Mr. Bernabe. MATTHEW BERNABE: Matthew Bernabe for the record. As far as the Police raises go, I always supported them, but I would like to go on record again and say that I think we should charge the cadets for part of their training costs incurred. I have been in two (2) branches of the military and neither one of them even let me get a free haircut from the first day. The very first shave that you see in the movie "Stripes," they charged you. I do not know why we completely fund that. That is a way to fund their particular raises, I believe. As I was speaking earlier about making concrete language in the County Charter, to make it more efficient that we could justify these raises. For example, I just heard today that some departments list the more accurate amount they are going to pay their heads and subsequent, whereas some others leave it to the maximum and let it float with some unknown discrepancy of where we are. Let us put language in that that makes the department heads or the Administration submit the budget with accurate figures. How can we balance the budget if we have two (2) different systems of whatever department, "We are going to be more accurate, but for this one, we are going to have some lapsed?" That does not make sense. As far as...I am sorry that this is about to be critical, but some of these department heads are not qualified and the reason I say this is if we had a functioning HR and all the department heads were in conjunction with HR, we would not have had the bike COUNCIL MEETING 37 MARCH 23, 2016 trail by the roundabout going up Olohena to the middle school made with not one level of due process until they came here and asked for an after-the-fact resolution to legalize it. That money could have gone to some other parts. That is a waste of money. I am a public member. That one right there is hard to justify raises when the Department of Public Works is doing projects that have no due process. This is what I am talking about. We need to make enforceable standards, uniformed across the board. That will actually save us money, as you have pointed out in the presentations of the county manager. I do not want a county manager—trust me. However, I am all for adopting the best practices that they have themselves have done the footwork. I support this because we need to entice them with the potential of making a higher salary, especially in departments like lawyers; however, we have to have some teeth to make sure that the belt is tightened. We need to do it. Thank you very much. Councilmember Yukimura: I have a question. Council Chair Rapozo: Matt, Councilmember Yukimura wants to ask you to restate or rephrase something. Councilmember Yukimura: You said that you support this, so do you mean that you support this Salary Commission Resolution? Mr. Bernabe: Yes, because this Resolution... Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay, that is all. I think you made your point. Thank you, Matt. Anyone else wishing to testify? If not, I will call meeting back to order. Further discussion? Councilmember Kagawa. There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows: Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you. I would like to let the Council know that my motion that I want to make after we vote on this motion is to reject all of the salaries, simply for the reason...again, not because I discredit the work of the Salary Commission, but because financially you have heard all of the stories from the Director of Finance. As we discuss it more, it gets even more concerning. Councilmember Kuali`i had a great question about what is the status of our one hundred million dollar ($100,000,000) backlog in roads? We also have a one hundred million dollar ($100,000,000) backlog in bridges. And we are going to catch up by paying one million four hundred thousand dollars ($1,400,000) per year? We have a one hundred million dollar ($100,000,000) backlog and we are going to pay one million four hundred thousand dollars ($1,400,000) a year and that should be fine to us? That is ridiculous. We are never going to catch up if we are going to put one million four hundred thousand dollars ($1,400,000) into that. Before we even reach the budget now, we are going to increase salaries by eight hundred thousand dollars ($800,000)? Is that fiscally responsible? Or you folks even want this amendment with four hundred thousand dollars ($400,000). It is crazy. We have dire needs out there and this is not about attracting or keeping qualified employees there. My dad was a former Deputy County Engineer, so I can speak for that. He COUNCIL MEETING 38 MARCH 23, 2016 had a license and he was a former Deputy County Engineer. Henry Morita, his boss, the former County Engineer, had his license as well and they left their other jobs at the Pacific Missile Range Facility (PMRF) and the private sector with pay cuts, in that time, over ten thousand dollars ($10,000). But they came because they wanted to help the County get to a better place, give back, and find a reward in trying to be community servants. Not for pay. They did not come over for pay. It is not about pay. You are not going to make more money than the highest paid civil servants. It is not going to happen. We have had salary inversion from the `70s. Former Mayor Yukimura would know. She was there. I am sure she faced the same problems. This is not going to fix it. What concerns me is that when we say, "Well, we do not want to kick the can down the road," but when you are broke, you have to kick the can down the road. That is what people in the public do right now. Instead of sending their kids to the mainland for college, they tell their kids, "You have to go to Kaua`i Community College (KCC) for two (2) years." We do kick the can down the road every day. Our middle class, working people, and lower class, they are kicking the can down the road. Let us not talk about kicking the can down the road. Everybody is kicking the can down the road when we are broke and we are broke, too. Right now, the County is broke. We talk about catching up to our roads and bridges with one million four hundred thousand dollars ($1,400,000) per year. Look at the pictures of Hanapepe Bridge. We are going to patch it with cement underneath? I do not know. Anyway, I do not know what the priority is. I am going to make a motion to reject all of the salaries. I know this is a funky vote where three (3) votes is going to win or basically get it passed, and I will move on from there if it does pass. We are going to somehow find a way to make it up, but I am telling you that I think this can wait. I do not think this is a rush. If it is a rush, then it should wait because we do not have the moneys right now. I urge one of the three (3) members to change your mind because it is not too late. Thank you, Chair. Council Chair Rapozo: Discussion? Councilmember Hooser. Councilmember Hooser: I am going to be supporting removing half of the salaries from the Resolution, which I believe is what the motion is. In the off chance that we accidentally pass...I say accidentally meaning if the whole thing passes, then at least only half will pass. I do not know how the votes are going to fall, but that is why I am voting that way. For the record, I want to say that I am a proud graduate of Kaua`i Community College and I think it is a fine institution and I know that is not what was meant by the comment, but it is about the ability to pay. I disagree with some of what the County Attorney was saying earlier that it is not about the budget. I do not think this is a legal question; I think it is a policy question and I think we do need to take into consideration budget consequences. That is part of our responsibility, which is to look at the budget, look at our ability to pay, and look at the parameters in which we are giving departments on how to budget, how much they can pay their people, and how much they can spend. Again, it is no reflection on the people. I would like to see one County budget go through where it does not have tax increases in it and not have proposed tax increases on the table leading up to it before we start putting raises into effect and continuing to spend money that the people do not have. The Administration spoke about them finding money and having money in the budget, but I think it is important to remind all of us that these are taxpayers' moneys. These are residents' and COUNCIL MEETING 39 MARCH 23, 2016 businesses' money and we need to spend it very wisely. For those reasons, I will be voting in support of the amendment of the proposal. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Chock. Councilmember Chock: Thank you. The discussion today about the Salary Commission Resolution and the budget being two (2) separate things; I think by means of this discussion itself says that they are, and while they may not or should not be, the reality is that it has been used as a mechanism or a tool to control the outcome. I think there is one thing that we can agree upon, at least that is what I heard from all Members, is that we agree with the work that has been done by the Salary Commission and we agree with outcomes and their recommendations. If we can move from that standpoint...that is why I want to support this amendment. One, I also heard the comment of taking incremental steps and I truly believe that we need to start to move in the right direction and I think that this is one way to do so. It is true that we are responsible for the budget. I want to be able to look at that budget and make a determination of where we are and what our needs are. We have asked the Administration to give us a guide of where this money is going to come from and they have given it to us, so I think this is the tool that we need to use. If six hundred sixty-seven thousand nine hundred forty-two dollars ($667,942) is what is being cut, then we have that capability of holding those funds back so that no raises get funded. That is the mechanism, I think, and our purview within the budget process. So I will be looking at that and utilizing that moving forward. However, I do think that especially for the salaries that were identified, I would like to see some of them move forward and that is why I will be supporting this amendment. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: So you are supporting the amendment to remove? Councilmember Chock: That is correct. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Councilmember Kaneshiro. Councilmember Kaneshiro: I said it last week and I will say it again this week: what is in best interest of the County in the long run? That is the decision that I have been contemplating this whole time. For me, it is easy to say "no" to increases each and every year due to budget concerns and timing. I believe I said that last year. I said I am not comfortable with this due to budget concerns and timing, but the more I think about it, there will never be a right time. We will always have other obligations that will seem more pressing. We will probably always have roads that need to be paid for and we will have other things that need to get done. For me, I think about it and I take a step back. What is the long-term effect of our decisions today? It is going to compound year-after-year, this discrepancy. Does it affect us? I believe it does. Keeping the salaries stagnant hinders us from competing with comparable jobs on the island or even within the State. Why would a great county attorney on O`ahu want to come to Kaua`i if we are paying ten thousand dollars ($10,000) to twenty thousand dollars ($20,000) less than what they are getting there? I think it does hinder us and ultimately we want good, quality workers. We are going to continue to have this problem if we do not take a step. We need to take a step. I think we all know that for the future we COUNCIL MEETING 40 MARCH 23, 2016 want highly-qualified individuals. We want the best people we can get here. For me, you really take a step back and say, "What is the overall goal?" For me, I want the best quality people here. Do we get private people that come here and take a pay cut? Yes. We have some and we are very fortunate for it. Have we had people who have left to get higher pay? Yes. We have seen that. We have had people not take higher positions, a lot of deputy police type of positions. They do not want to take the position. There is a lot of inversion there. So can we get qualified attorneys, Certified Public Accountants (CPAs), and engineers to come here at the salaries that we are offering? I think they would rather be looking at O`ahu and the other counties for jobs if they can get paid higher. For me, I would want to just take the whole thing as a whole, because in reality, I am look at it as the Salary Commission came in and they did their work. They are volunteers. They have no connection to the County and they are there to take an unbiased look at salaries of the County. As I mentioned last week, the Salary Commission's goal was to attract and attain public servants of the highest caliber and quality and they spent many hours questioning the Administration, and reviewing and discussing information to determine the best course to recommend for the County. Fairness was the overall consideration. For me, my vote is to take the recommendation. It is not about is this person qualified in this position? That is not our job. Our job is to say, "Do we agree with what the Salary Commission is recommending?" All of their work that they did, do we agree that is where the salaries should be? It is the Mayor's job to look at individual positions and say, "This person is doing good. He gets a raise. This person has some potential growth." "We will not give that person a raise." That is the Administration's responsibility. Our responsibility is just to look at this Salary Commission Resolution and say, "Do we believe that this is fair?" That is where I am coming from. That is where I came from last week and that is where I am going to continue to stay. I take the Salary Commission Resolution as-is. I think the Salary Commission did a lot of work on it. They spent a lot of hours on it. If they wanted the Council to be the ones to do it, then we would spend hours looking at each individual position and deciding whether we think they should get a raise or not, but that is not our job. That is the Administration's job. The Salary Commission's job is to set the salary cap. For me, I am going with the recommendation of the Salary Commission and that is my position. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kuali`i. Councilmember Kuali`i: I am going to vote in support of this half, but I really support rejecting all, not just this half. For starters, I would say that as a Council, it is our job. We have a bigger job than the Salary Commission. The Salary Commission has the job of putting a proposal forward regarding salaries. Our biggest job and most important job are managing the finances of this County, as far as policy goes, setting the budget. So the most important votes that we make on this Council is the vote on the budget, the vote on this Salary Commission Resolution, and the vote on money bills. Other than that, it is all in the hands of the Administration, how they manage day-to-day, and how they produce results for the people with the money that we appropriate. There is nothing more important; there is no bigger job than we have than budget and these salaries. All of the arguments have been made what is deserving. When you think about what is deserving, there are a lot of perspectives. I, as an individual employee, can have a perception of what I deserve, and then my boss can have a perception of what I deserve. My coworkers can have a perception of what I deserve. The Mayor can COUNCIL MEETING 41 MARCH 23, 2016 have a perception if I am working for the County as a director and the Mayor can have a perception of what I deserve. Of course, this Council can have a perception of what people deserve. It is not about personalities; it is about positions and we are not even really looking at individual positions at this time. We are not even looking at individual positions at this time. We are looking at it as a whole, across the County wide. We have fifty-four (54) positions that are in the highest leadership of this County. They are basically one hundred thousand dollar ($100,000) positions. The one lowest paid that is the only one that is not paid at the cap is the Board and Commissions Administrator. The current salary is ninety-six thousand dollars ($96,000,000) and the current maximum salary of what it could be is one hundred three thousand dollars ($103,000,000). We talk about it as only caps and it is not really what the salary is. The majority of all positions are paid at the maximum, so we can expect that if we increase the maximum, then that is what we will increase to our budget. There are positions like the County Attorney positions and the Deputy Prosecutor positions and those are all of those attorneys, different levels. They have a wider range so they are mostly not paid at the maximum as far as being paid at the maximum is one position. The thing about what you deserve is what you deserve, versus what is fair, versus what is enough. The most important person that decides (inaudible) about all of those questions is the taxpayers. The taxpayers, our citizens, our constituency, have to pay for this, right? We cannot go back to them and ask them for any kind of tax increase until we get more serious about the budget and we need to ask our top management to help us with that. Can you please be satisfied with one hundred thousand dollars ($100,000)? Most of them have been. I do not think we have any kind of problem. Human Resources for years now has never been able to prove that we have a serious problem with our top-level salaries, that everybody is leaving, that it is not enough money, that everybody is so unhappy, or that the County is a terrible place to work for because I cannot get paid enough. That is just not reality. Show me the justification that we have a problem to say that we have to fix it. We have bigger problems. We have problems with our roads. We have a one hundred million dollar ($100,000,000) backlog. We have all kinds of more serious problems at this moment and we need our top level fifty-four (54) positions in management to support us in that; to support the people, to support the taxpayers. Now is definitely not the time. If this Council and this Administration can do a better job with the budget each year, we can build us to the place where it is a better time. It is not fair to say there will never be a better time. There can be a better time if this Council and this Administration gets serious about cutting the budget. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: In proposing to reject the bottom-half of the salary list, I am not picking out positions or I am not picking out people in positions. I am actually looking at two (2) different tiers and when I look at the bottom tier, it is not about the budget being too tight; it is actually about what is fair and what is comparable to the market. I do not believe that the salaries in the bottom tier are stagnant. I believe that they are very competitive and we do not need raises to attract people in the bottom tier. As evidence of that, if you look at the other counties, and please keep in mind that Hawai`i's population is three (3) times Kaua`i's population and the population of Maui is two (2) times Kaua`i's population. Nonetheless, the proposed increase for the Economic Development Director would set it at one hundred nine thousand dollars ($109,000), whereas Maui County's COUNCIL MEETING 42 MARCH 23, 2016 Economic Director is at one hundred six thousand dollars ($106,000) and Hawai`i County is ninety-nine thousand dollars ($99,000). The Parks Director, in this salary ordinance, would be at one hundred nineteen thousand dollars ($119,000), when in Maui is it at one hundred fourteen thousand dollars ($114,000) and on Hawai`i island it is at ninety-nine thousand dollars ($99,000). The Housing Director would be set at one hundred nine thousand dollars ($109,000) under this salary resolution, but in Maui County it is set ten thousand dollars ($10,000) less at ninety-nine thousand dollars ($99,000) and on Hawai`i island also, ninety-nine thousand dollars ($99,000). The Boards and Commissions Administrator would be set at one hundred nine thousand dollars ($109,000) and there is nothing comparable. We discussed this one. We were discussing the council-manager system because it may not be necessary that that position really be a charter position, even though I agree that we need the position. I do not believe that the existing salaries are out of line and that is the reason why I am proposing this. I think these are fair salaries and that to raise them is not fair to the taxpayers. I want to say that anybody who votes against this motion to reject will be voting for these proposed salaries. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: I am going to be voting against the motion to reject because it only rejects part of the salaries. I believe that financially we should reject all of the salaries and that is my next motion. Can I make that motion, Mr. Chair, after this vote is taken? Council Chair Rapozo: Yes. Councilmember Kagawa: Just to be clear, I count two (2) votes now, myself and Councilmember Kaneshiro, who wants to vote on the whole thing and have the guts to vote on the whole thing instead of trying to chop it up and cover yourself. So let us either accept the work of the Salary Commission or not; not micromanage them and say, "This part is fair, but this part is unfair." That is micromanaging. You just accept it or you do not. They did the work and spent all of those hours. Let us stop micromanaging and let us have guts to vote on it in its entirety, as it should be. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Hooser. Councilmember Hooser: I have stated repeatedly over every hearing on this that I do not support raises and I stated my reason to support this measure and it has nothing to do with my guts. I respect everyone's intention and decision-making process that they go through on this. I said repeatedly that I do not support any of these raises and I see this as a step in that direction. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Any other comments before I finish? We will take the vote immediately following my comments. Let me start with something that Councilmember Kagawa said about his dad. I do not know why we keep trying to compare the private sector and government work. It is a choice to come work over here. It is a choice. You want to step down from your private sector job to come here, then it comes with a lower pay. The County...I do not believe government was ever intended, unless you are in the Congress, to make you rich. It COUNCIL MEETING 43 MARCH 23, 2016 is not built that way and it is community service. It is an opportunity for people to give back to the community and often times comes with a cut in pay. I had a few very successful businesses before I got involved in this ridiculous game of politics. Since then, those businesses have been reduced to where I have to get a part-time job, but that is because this job took a lot of my time. That is a choice. I could have said, "I am done and I am going back to revive my business and made money again," but that is a choice. I think people need to understand that you are not coming to the County to get rich; you are coming to the County to provide community service. That is a choice and I think that is important. The ability to pay is very important. I asked the Administration that I wanted to see some consolidation of departments and divisions; in other words, reduce your workforce. That is what I wanted to see. I did not want to see, "We are going to save three hundred thousand dollars ($300,000) from here and save two hundred thousand dollars ($200,000) from here." I wanted to see, like what Council Services did, we are doing more with three (3) less positions. That is what I wanted to see, but that was not provided. Like Councilmember Kuali`i said, I am not convinced that we have a recruiting or retention problem. We do not. The Mayor, the Prosecuting Attorney, and the Councilmembers are elected, so there is no recruiting issue there. Since I have been here, the County Engineer position has been one problem that we have had, but we have constantly filled that position. Maybe we have to do a better job of marketing and advertising the position. The Director of Finance and the Housing Director both, and I am using the examples that were provided, that they left because of pay. They both came to this Administration, and I know this personally, because they told me, on a limited term, "Hey, Mayor, I agree to come help you out in the next year or so," and both left...actually stayed longer than they had intentionally stayed here, and there was no real issue there. I do not see anybody bailing out of the County. You can go down the list. The Managing Director, Deputy County Engineer, Deputy Director of Finance, County Attorney, Deputy County Attorney, Human Resources Director, Police Chief, Planning Director, Deputy Planning Director, Liquor Control Director, Parks and Recreation Director, Boards and Commissions, County Clerk—I do not see anybody crying that they are not making enough money, like Councilmember Kuali`i said, and that they are leaving. We do not have an issue. We are trying to get the people to see that, but it is not a real issue. The other part of it is just being fair and equitable. Comparing us to the outer islands is just meaningless. We do not know what goes on in those counties. We do not know what additional resources their department heads have. We do not know the operations enough to be able to say that they should be the same. For example, O`ahu has a lot of people. They have satellite city halls all over the place. They have a different operation. So to even compare us to anybody else, to me, unless you have the information in-depth of how they operate the County, why compare to that? Why? To me, it is irrelevant. It is what we do here; what we produce and perform here is what this body needs to address. I think it has been said numerous times, and the Salary Commission probably thinks that we are full of it by saying it, but I really appreciate their work. Again, it comes down to is this the right time. Councilmember Kuali`i said it best. We can get to that point where it is the right time, definitely, but it is going to take some effort. It is not going to work if we continue to grow the size of this County. It is just not going to happen. I was starting to keep track of where the votes are going to go, but I am just going to say that I am not going to support this amendment, simply because I do not want to take a chance of half passes and the other half does not pass. I am under the position that if you cannot support it, then you vote no. How can you say that the COUNCIL MEETING 44 MARCH 23, 2016 Salary Commission was right for half of the positions and wrong for the rest? How do you say that? They used the same analysis. What they did with the tiered system was the best suggestion I have seen ever since I have been on this Council and I have seen several Salary Commission recommendations. The tiered system is where we have to go, but for me it is hard telling the people, "Hey, we have potential tax increases." So I am not going to be supporting this thing and I am going to wait until Councilmember Kagawa makes his motion, and then I will take the appropriate action at that point. With that, roll call. Let me just make it clear that this is a motion to reject from Economic Development down and five (5) votes will remove them from this Resolution. Roll call. The motion to reject Salary Commission's proposals from the Director of Economic Development through the Councilmembers was then put, and failed by the following vote: FOR MOTION: Chock, Hooser, Kuali`i, Yukimura TOTAL — 4, AGAINST MOTION: Kagawa, Kaneshiro, Rapozo TOTAL— 3, EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0, RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0. Council Chair Rapozo: The motion fails. Councilmember Kagawa moved to reject Salary Commission Resolution No. 2016-1 in its entirety, seconded by Councilmember Kuali`i. Council Chair Rapozo: The question has been brought up a couple of times on whether or not I am going to recuse myself because of my brother being the Liquor Control Director, but my vote is not going to help my brother one bit. It hurts him. So I am not going to recuse myself and I am going to vote. Councilmember Yukimura: It just helped him. Council Chair Rapozo: I helped him? I did not help him because I am going to hurt him in the next vote. Go ahead, Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: Chair, I want to start by saying that after I rubbed my crystal ball, this Salary Commission Resolution will pass by a 3:4 vote. There was never one time in history, I think, that I can recall that a 3:4 vote won something that is so monumental in that it will be raising salaries, potentially lessening our budget, and lessening other things that we have to do that are, I feel, in dire need right now. I want to say that once it passes and the salaries do increase, and I will not be supporting it, but I will expect that we live up to that increases. If you get the increases, live up to it. Do more. That is how you sell it to the taxpayers and they can accept it and live with it. That is all I am asking, is that once it does pass, and it will feel funny that it will pass because you will have a 3:4 vote here, but live up to it, push forward, and let us show the public that we are all deserving of the salaries that are going to be increased. I think that is how you sell it. There is no sense in crying over spilled milk about the process. This is the way it is going to go. At the Council level, what we have to do is to try and see if we can do more cuts and generate revenue so that those things in dire need are not hurt as well. We are going to hit the budget process and I do not even want to go there, but COUNCIL MEETING 45 MARCH 23, 2016 again, my vote will be to reject all just because I do not feel that we need to rush into making this type of decision that puts another eight hundred thousand dollars ($800,000) of burden on the taxpayers. Thank you, Chair. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Hooser. Councilmember Hooser: As I have said repeatedly, I am not voting in support of any raises. My previous vote, if you look at the tape, you will see that I voted that way because I wanted to avoid accidentally giving half a raise. So if Councilmember Kagawa is correct and the vote turns out that everybody gets raises, those that voted against Councilmember Yukimura's motion were effectively voting in favor of giving Councilmembers a raise, as well as everyone else. That is the bottom line. So I am going continue to be consistent with my vote against this, but that is the net result if Councilmember Kagawa's prediction is correct. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else? Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: I am going to be voting against this motion to reject because I believe that we need to raise the salaries for the top tier, as I have always said. These are top-level leaders that have not been given raises and are far below their market counterparts. In order to keep this County whole, we have to pay them appropriately. I do not feel the same way for the reasons I have given on the previous vote about the second tier. It was a chance to reduce the cost by at least three hundred thousand dollars ($300,000) and not do it unfairly, because as I pointed out, this bottom tier would be higher than their counterparts on the neighbor islands. I am not taking Honolulu into comparison because they are far out of the league. I did not even mention this most egregious one is the Deputy Director of Parks and Recreation will get one hundred fourteen thousand dollars ($114,000), when in Maui the Deputy Parks Director is getting one hundred three thousand dollars ($103,000), and on Hawai`i the Deputy Parks Director is getting ninety-four thousand dollars ($94,000). I also feel that for Councilmembers, the present salary we are getting, which is fifty-six thousand dollars ($56,000) or something like that, is appropriate for a part-time job. If we want full-time, then we should make full-time salaries but require it to be full-time. Right now, the proposal is for Councilmembers to get sixty-three thousand dollars ($63,000) for a part-time job. I felt that my motion to reject the bottom-half, which also increases the Liquor Control Director's salary, was the best way to bring a compromise, give the place where it is most needed and not where it is not needed, and address budget issues, as well as the need to properly compensate our people. But since that vote failed, I am not going vote against the salary increases that I believe are well-deserved. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kuali`i. Councilmember Kuali`i: So splitting up the vote was problematic from the very beginning, but it is really odd to just flip your decision. My decision for the rejection of the bottom-half was to also then come back later and try and get the top-half. So I fully support a full rejection of all raises and I do this on behalf of the working class, poor, the people that are getting by on twenty-five thousand dollars ($25,000), thirty thousand dollars ($30,000), or forty thousand dollars COUNCIL MEETING 46 MARCH 23, 2016 ($40,000)...all of our families, our kupuna, and the people that can make it work. So I do not know how our fifty-four (54) top leaders cannot make one hundred thousand dollars ($100,000) work and how our Administration or this Council can think going forward, the way to deal with the budget potentially is to charge people more taxes. We just cannot do that. We have to be more efficient. Fiscal responsibility is the number one job of this Council. That is what we were elected to do, for sure—the budget, these salary increases, and appropriations. If you had certain people on the Salary Commission, people who felt maybe the way that I do right now, you could probably have a recommendation for decreases. This is about public service. To make this about the Council's salaries is silly. Take it out and deal with it separately, I do not care. I am not doing this job for money. I work just as hard as the Mayor and he makes more than double what I make and I work just as hard as any of our department directors who make more than me. Do not call it a part-time job we all work hard and we all work because we love the County and we love the constituents that we serve. The constituents that we serve are our family, our neighbors, and our community. We grew up with them and we work with them. These are hard votes, but that is what we were elected to do and it is about fiscal responsibility. Please, community, come and join us in the budget process because it is going to be a very, very tough budget until we start being real. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kaneshiro. Councilmember Kaneshiro: Again, I am not going to change my thinking or my reasoning. I explained my logic last week and I explained it earlier today. Again, my decision is to support what the Salary Commission proposed. I was not going to and I am not going to spend hours and weeks looking at every single individual position and me coming up with a determination on whether what the Salary Commission proposed is good or not. They spent the time. That is what they did and that is what their role is, which is to spend the time and justification for where they think the ceiling should be. Again, this is just a ceiling. It does not necessarily have to be what everyone is going to get. That is the Mayor's responsibility and the commission's responsibility to say, "Hey, does this person deserve a raise? Do they stay here? Do we allow them to move up with potential? Maybe they just started. Maybe they do not have the qualifications to actually get the top raise." That is the Administration's responsibility to do. We heard the question, "Where is the money going to come from?" The Administration provided all of the cuts for this, six hundred sixty-seven thousand dollars ($667,000) in cuts. Do I think they are going to raise everybody's pay rate to the top ceiling? I sure hope not, but it is within the discretion of the Administration and the commission. That is their job. Our job is to take the Salary Commission recommendation and vote on that. That is what I am doing; I am voting on the Salary Commission's recommendation for all the reasons I said earlier. That is it. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Chock. Councilmember Chock: This process has been real difficult and it is difficult because of the blanket approach to all of these positions to say that each one should just move forward. I have tried to problem-solve with this body to come to a resolution where I thought we could take a step forward that I thought was feasible, but that has not happened. As much as we tried to, we are back to where we were from the very beginning, and in the very beginning of this process, I said COUNCIL MEETING 47 MARCH 23, 2016 that I will not support any Council increases and I still feel strongly about that. There is a chance that we could take that out, but that is not what we are voting on right now. I am staying consistent and following through with what I said and will be supporting the direction of this current vote. It is very unfortunate because we are going to have to be coming back to this next year or the following year to deal with this again. I believe that some of these people or some of these positions need to be addressed. But when it is all or nothing, we have to make decisions based on the bottom line and there is a bottom line for me here. Therefore, that is how my vote will go. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Any other discussion? If not, the motion is to reject in whole, and five (5) votes are required for the motion to pass. With that, roll call. The motion to reject Salary Commission Resolution No. 2016-1 in its entirety was then put, and carried by the following vote: FOR MOTION: Chock, Hooser, Kagawa, Kuali`i, Rapozo TOTAL — 5, AGAINST MOTION: Kaneshiro, Yukimura TOTAL — 2, EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0, RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0. Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Motion passes. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Next item. C 2016-69 Communication (02/16/2016) from the Chief of Police, requesting Council approval of an unbudgeted purchase of a 48 feet by 20 feet (960 square feet) mezzanine for an approximate cost of$80,000.00, and subsequent installation at the Kaua`i Police Department's Station in Lihu`e to address the need for additional space for evidence storage; $50,000.00 of the cost of the mezzanine will come from unexpended funds in Account No. 001-1003-551.43-03, (Kaua`i Police Department, Administrative & Technical Bureau, Repair and Maintenance Vehicles), and the remaining $30,000.00 will come from unexpended funds in Account No. 001-1001-551.01 (Kaua`i Police Department, Chiefs Office, Regular Salaries) as a result of vacant positions. Council Chair Rapozo: We also have the next item, which is C 2016-70. Councilmembers, do you anticipate questions on these items? I have asked the Budget & Finance Committee Chair to consider taking this up in the committee, because I do not know...I just saw this the first time you folks saw this. I anticipate a lot of questions. So unless you folks can resolve this in ten (10) minutes, which I do not think can happen, I would ask that we refer this to the Budget & Finance Committee and take public testimony. What are your thoughts? Councilmember Kagawa: Yes, I believe we should do all of the detail work in committee. I have no substantial questions, but if you feel like there is some substantial work that needs to be done prior to approval, I would say that we go to committee as the normal process. Thank you, Chair. Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else? Councilmember Kaneshiro. COUNCIL MEETING 48 MARCH 23, 2016 Councilmember Kaneshiro: I agree. I have some questions and I did not have time to send it over to the Kaua`i Police Department before this meeting. I will try to send it over if we have the time now. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Any other questions or concerns? Councilmember Kuali`i. Councilmember Kuali`i: I have a basic process question that is more for Finance than for KPD at this time. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Anyone else have questions? Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: I have questions, but I prefer to do it in committee. Council Chair Rapozo: Any questions as far as the process? Are there any objections to moving this over to the committee? We can have KPD come up next week and do a presentation for us on both of the items. Councilmember Kagawa: Yes. Chair, so that we do not waste their time, let us take that up probably first thing on the agenda, if that is okay with the members of the committee. Council Chair Rapozo: I do not have a problem with that. We do not have many items next week. We will do that as the first item at 8:30 a.m. next week so they do not have to be waiting. I apologize. I thought KPD was here this morning for security for the pay raise vote. With that, I just need a motion to refer this item to the committee. Councilmember Kuali`i moved to refer C 2016-69 to the March 30, 2016 Budget & Finance Committee Meeting, seconded by Councilmember Kaneshiro. Council Chair Rapozo: Any public testimony? I will suspend the rules with no objection. There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony. Mr. Bernabe: Matthew Bernabe for the record. Before you folks refer this item to the committee, I am not quite sure what a mezzanine...I am not really sure how to say that word...what is this? Is this like a square box container? Mezzanine? I learned something new today. However, I am not quite sure what that is. For the amount of money they are asking to purchase it, could we not just fortify the old KPD building as an annex for their storage? I am thinking with eighty thousand dollars ($80,000) and a structure that is already upright, we could get it for forty thousand dollars ($40,000). I am not quite sure what the benefit is. I really have to honest because I have never seen that word before. Just from first glance, I see a building every day I leave this place, which is the old police station right across the street, that I am pretty sure we could retrofit COUNCIL MEETING 49 MARCH 23, 2016 as an annex, auxiliary, or some kind of form of storage for evidence. We could even store vehicles there or evidence cars that come out for evidence. I just want that to be taken into consideration when you go to the committee. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Anyone else? If not, I will call the meeting back to order. Any discussion on C 2016-69? The old police station is a State facility. It is completely riddled with asbestos, so at this point it is not feasible, as well as the location as being far away from the Police Department. I would encourage anyone that has questions that you would like us to ask, because we do not know either, send the questions over to us and we will send it over to the Police Department. If not, the motion is to refer this to the Budget & Finance Committee. There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows: The motion to refer C 2016-69 to the March 30, 2016 Budget & Finance Committee Meeting was then put, and unanimously carried. Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item, please. C 2016-70 Communication (02/22/2016) from the Chief of Police, requesting Council approval of an unbudgeted purchase of fifteen (15) newly marked Ford Explorer patrol vehicles, at an estimated cost of $50,000.00 to $55,000.00 for each vehicle (total of $750,000 to $825,000), using unexpended funds anticipated in Account No. 001-1001-551.01-01 (Kaua`i Police Department, Chiefs Office, Regular Salaries), to keep the Kaua`i Police Department on track with their strategic vehicle replacement plan which necessitates the purchase of forty-five (45) newly marked patrol vehicles over the next three (3) years, and with the understanding that no vehicles will be budgeted in Fiscal Year 2017: Councilmember Kuali`i moved to refer C 2016-70 to the March 30, 2016 Budget & Finance Committee Meeting, seconded by Councilmember Kaneshiro, and unanimously carried. Council Chair Rapozo: Next item, please. C 2016-71 Communication (02/26/2016) from the Fire Chief, transmitting for Council consideration, amendments to Chapter 15A, Kaua`i County Code 1987, as amended, relating to adoption of the State Fire Code, incorporating by reference the 2012 Uniform Fire Code, and providing for local amendments thereto: Councilmember Kuali`i moved to receive C 2016-71 for the record, seconded by Councilmember Hooser. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Any other discussion? Public testimony? The bill will be coming up later. The rules are suspended. Again, as I stated last week, testifying for the communication that is connected to the bill will be carried over to the bill. There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony. Mr. Bernabe: That is fine. I am only using this opportunity to highlight the Fire Department's adopting of the Fire Code, which I COUNCIL MEETING 50 MARCH 23, 2016 am going to assume are the best practices over an accumulation of trial and errors that they have studied and have deemed best practices, and this is what we need to do with our County Charter. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Any other public testimony? If not, I will call the meeting back to order. Further discussion? Councilmember Kagawa. There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows: Councilmember Kagawa: I would like to ask the Fire Department's Fire Prevention Unit that oversees the code and is pushing forth this adoption to please...you do not need to come up, but please make sure you send over a copy of the changes to the Contractors Association of Kaua`i, if possible, Karen Taketa, and preferably get it to their consultant who oversees building codes; Don Lutao and just make sure that the contractors and the residents will get a chance to at least provide comment, should they have any concerns on any significant changes. I am not a building contractor, so I have no experience in knowing what is being changed and just make sure that we get community buy-in from the contractors and everybody to make sure that we have the strongest bill possible at the end. Thank you, Chair. Council Chair Rapozo: Anymore discussion? The motion to receive C 2016-71 for the record was then put, and unanimously carried. C 2016-72 Communication (03/01/2016) from the Executive on Aging, requesting Council approval to apply for, receive, and expend a continuation of grant funding awarded by the Corporation for National and Community Service to the County of Kaua`i, Agency on Elderly Affairs, Kaua`i RSVP from April 1, 2016 to March 31, 2017, in the amount of $62,847.00 for year 2 of 3, to assist the Kaua`i RSVP in carrying out a national service program as authorized by the Domestic Volunteer Service Act of 1973, as amended (42 U.S.C., Chapter 22): Councilmember Kaneshiro moved to approve C 2016-72, seconded by Councilmember Yukimura, and unanimously carried. C 2016-73 Communication (03/01/2016) from the Fire Chief, requesting Council approval to accept a donation from the Kaua`i Lifeguard Association (KLA), valued at $3,649.37, of one (1) Jet Ski Trailer, to be utilized by the Ocean Safety Bureau for roving patrol and training purposes, to transport jet skis and rescue equipment when a roving unit is in operation, and for use by Training and Prevention Officers for rescue craft training and any special functions that require lifeguard services or education on Ocean Safety Awareness: Councilmember Kuali`i moved to approve C 2016-73 with a thank-you letter to follow, seconded by Councilmember Kaneshiro, and unanimously carried. C 2016-74 Communication (03/02/2016) from the Mayor, transmitting for Council consideration, the cost items for the Hawai`i Government Employees Association (HGEA) Bargaining Unit 14 for the period July 1, 2015 and COUNCIL MEETING 51 MARCH 23, 2016 June 30, 2017 based on an arbitrated award and in accordance with the procedures contained in Chapter 89, Hawai`i Revised Statutes (HRS), pursuant to Section 89-11 of the HRS and Section 19.13B of the Kaua`i County Charter: Councilmember Kuali`i moved to receive C 2016-74 for the record, seconded by Councilmember Kaneshiro, and unanimously carried. C 2016-75 Communication (03/10/2016) from the Prosecuting Attorney, requesting Council approval to apply for, receive, and expend Federal Highway Safety funds from the State of Hawai`i Department of Transportation, in the amount of $162,529.00, to be used towards continued funding of 1.00 Full-Time Equivalent (FTE) Special Prosecuting Attorney, travel, and training: Councilmember Kuali`i moved to approve C 2016-75, seconded by Councilmember Kagawa, and unanimously carried. C 2016-76 Communication (03/14/2016) from the Mayor, transmitting his Fiscal Year 2016-2017 Budget Message, along with the proposed Operating Budget, Capital Improvement Projects (CIP) Budget, and Schedule of Charges and Fees: Councilmember Kaneshiro moved to receive C 2016-76 for the record, seconded by Councilmember Chock. Council Chair Rapozo: We will be going over this in detail tomorrow. The motion to receive C 2016-76 for the record was then put, and unanimously carried. Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Chair, the next item are your Committee Reports. COMMITTEE REPORTS: PUBLIC WORKS / PARKS & RECREATION COMMITTEE: A report (No. CR-PWPR 2016-04) submitted by the Public Works / Parks & Recreation Committee, recommending that the following be Received for the Record: "PWPR 2016-03 — Communication (02/04/2016) from Committee Chair Kagawa, requesting the presence of the County Engineer and Deputy County Engineer, to discuss the circumstances relating to the Management Advisory Report for the Fiscal Year Ended June 30, 2015, Current Findings and Recommendations, 2015-003 (Improve Monitoring of Delinquent Receivable Accounts)," Councilmember Kagawa moved for approval of the report, seconded by Councilmember Kuali`i, and unanimously carried. A report (No. CR-PWPR 2016-05) submitted by the Public Works / Parks & Recreation Committee, recommending that the following be Received for the Record: COUNCIL MEETING 52 MARCH 23, 2016 "PWPR 2016-04 — Communication (02/18/2016) from Council Chair Rapozo, requesting the presence of the Acting County Engineer, to provide a briefing and status update on the Hanapepe Bridge," Councilmember Kagawa moved for approval of the report, seconded by Councilmember Kuali`i, and unanimously carried. BUDGET & FINANCE COMMITTEE: A report (No. CR-BF 2016-07) submitted by the Budget & Finance Committee, recommending that the following be Approved on second and final reading: "Bill No. 2616 — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE TO AMEND SECTION 22-2.4 AND SECTION 22-10.6, KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO IMPOUNDMENT FEES," Councilmember Yukimura moved for approval of the report, seconded by Councilmember Chock, and unanimously carried. A report (No. CR-BF 2016-08) submitted by the Budget & Finance Committee, recommending that the following be Received for the Record: "Bill No. 2617 — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING ORDINANCE NO. B-2015-796, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO THE OPERATING BUDGET OF THE COUNTY OF KAUAI, STATE OF HAWAII, FOR THE FISCAL YEAR JULY 1, 2015 THROUGH JUNE 30, 2016, BY REVISING THE AMOUNTS ESTIMATED IN THE GENERAL FUND (Kaua`i Humane Society Barking Dog Enforcement - $33,901)," Councilmember Yukimura moved for approval of the report, seconded by Councilmember Chock, and unanimously carried. A report (No. CR-BF 2016-09) submitted by the Budget & Finance Committee, recommending that the following be Referred to the March 23, 2016 Council Meeting: "C 2016-44 — Communication (02/12/2016) from the Salary Commission, transmitting for Council information, the Salary Commission's Resolution No. 2016-01, Relating to the Salaries of Certain Officers and Employees of the County of Kaua`i for the Fiscal Year 2016-2017, which was adopted by the Salary Commission at its February 5, 2016 meeting. • Salary Commission Resolution No. 2016-1," Councilmember Yukimura moved for approval of the report, seconded by Councilmember Chock, and unanimously carried. COUNCIL MEETING 53 MARCH 23, 2016 COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE: A report (No. CR-COW 2016-04) submitted by the Committee of the Whole, recommending that the following be Approved as Amended on second and final reading: "Bill No. 2614, Draft 2 — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE TO AMEND CHAPTER 3, KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED, BY ADDING A NEW ARTICLE 6, RELATING TO THE REGISTRATION OF LOBBYISTS," Councilmember Kuali`i moved for approval of the report, seconded by Councilmember Yukimura, and unanimously carried. Council Chair Rapozo: Madame Clerk, at this point, I see a lot of people in the audience and I am assuming it is for the Resolution for the Adolescent Treatment and Healing Center and that is last on the resolution list. I know that we have the Community Development Block Grant (CDBG) Resolution, so I have asked Scott to have the Administration come back after lunch. Can we just go to Resolution No. 2016-36 at this point? There being no objections, Resolution No. 2016-36 was taken out of order. RESOLUTIONS: Resolution No. 2016-36 — RESOLUTION EXPRESSING THE SUPPORT OF THE COUNCIL OF THE COUNTY OF KAUAI FOR THE PROPOSED ADOLESCENT TREATMENT AND HEALING CENTER: Councilmember Kagawa moved for adoption of Resolution No. 2016-36, seconded by Councilmember Kuali`i. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Councilmember Kuali`i, did you want to say a few words before we take public testimony? If you folks are going to speak on this, can you sign up so we can have some order? Go ahead, Councilmember Kuali`i. Councilmember Kuali`i: I am just putting this Resolution forward so that the Council can have an opportunity to express our support for the Adolescent Treatment and Healing Center. I would like to have the Resolution read, please. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: I think it is not just support, but you are also asking for a commitment to expend... Councilmember Kuali`i: A resolution shows support, so the commitment is still part of a resolution. Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. Councilmember Kuali`i: Yes, so ultimately, any dollars would have to happen during the budget. COUNCIL MEETING 54 MARCH 23, 2016 Councilmember Yukimura: But this Resolution says that we are committed to funding the operations of the Adolescent Treatment and Healing Center. Councilmember Kuali`i: If you cannot support that, then you vote no. Council Chair Rapozo: That is what it is saying, Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Kuali`i: Yes, word-for-word. Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, that is what it says. Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, this Resolution is tied to a commitment to fund and raise revenues if necessary to fund. Councilmember Yukimura: So, increase taxes. Councilmember Kuali`i: Or cuts. Council Chair Rapozo: Yes. Councilmember Yukimura: What is the amount that is being committed to? Councilmember Kuali`i: May I have the Resolution read? Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Sure. "Resolution Expressing The Support Of The Council Of The County Of Kaua`i For The Proposed Adolescent Treatment And Healing Center: WHEREAS, substance abuse, dependence, and addiction are serious challenges facing Kaua`i's community and if left untreated in juvenile populations, could lead to joblessness, homelessness, increasing rates of delinquency and criminality, family violence, increase in healthcare costs, mental health services, emergency room admissions, and additional prison beds. These outcomes could create significant costs that consume an inordinate percentage of Federal, State and County spending; and WHEREAS, understanding the importance of developing an Adolescent Treatment and Healing Center on Kaua`i, Mayor Bernard P. Carvalho, Jr. has included this as a top priority within the County's Holo Holo 2020 vision; and WHEREAS, the County Council approved a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) on June 3, 2015, for the dedication of approximately five (5) acres from Grove Farm to be used for an Adolescent Treatment & Healing Center located in upper Hanama`ulu; and WHEREAS, the County of Kaua`i has submitted a Capital Improvement Project (CIP) request to the State Legislature in the amount of $5,000,000 for COUNCIL MEETING 55 MARCH 23, 2016 Construction and Site improvements of the Adolescent Treatment and Healing Center; and WHEREAS, the lack of on-island residential treatment continues to be a problem as there is a critical and urgent need for greater and earlier enhanced access to mental health and substance abuse services for youth, especially during the early stages when our young people experience contact with the judicial system; and WHEREAS, in order to support a full continuum of treatment and recovery services, it is imperative to re-direct or reinvest government funds to implement system-changes designed to reduce the high incidence of youth entering the judicial system; and WHEREAS, an on-island Adolescent Treatment and Healing Center would reduce the number of youth entering the juvenile justice system, serve as an alternative to locked facilities, and encourage community and family-based engagement; and WHEREAS, Act 201, the Reform of the Hawai`i Juvenile Justice System, signed in 2014 recommends that resources be allocated and increased statewide to address substance abuse, mental health, and social issues, and that the necessary funding be allocated to each county for both residential and outpatient services through one of the youth-serving agencies, to meet the myriad of mental health and social needs that youth and their families struggle with on a daily basis; and WHEREAS, private insurance coverage for drug treatment is insufficient in many cases to cover the cost of residential treatment and may not cover airfare and transportation for off-island residential treatment. Depending on the type of coverage, the patient's co-payment, deductibles, and expenses for some medication make it cost prohibitive; and WHEREAS, the State of Hawai`i, Child and Adolescent Mental Health Division (CAMHD) does not currently have adequate resources to provide ongoing operating subsidies for any new adolescent treatment facility in the State of Hawai`i; and WHEREAS, it's estimated that operating a 24-hour / 7-day a week ATHC will require operating subsidies of between $267,000 to $865,000 per year, depending on future assistance from the State of Hawai`i; and WHEREAS, the County of Kaua`i, Office of the Mayor, Life's Choices Kaua`i is committed to exploring and applying for grants to help fund the on-going operations of the ATHC; now, therefore BE IT RESOLVED BY THE COUNCIL OF THE COUNTY OF KAUAI, STATE OF HAWAII, that once an ATHC is built, the County Council is committed to providing the shortfall in annual operating funds and increasing County revenues, if necessary, for its on-going operations. BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the County Council is committed to pursuing additional funding for treatment and prevention from the State COUNCIL MEETING 56 MARCH 23, 2016 Legislature through either the expansion of Department of Health, Child and Adolescent Mental Health Division (CAMHD) funding or other innovative methods of revenue generation. BE IT FINALLY RESOLVED, that a copy of this Resolution be transmitted to Governor David Y. Ige, State Senate President Ronald D. Kouchi, Speaker of the State House of Representatives Joseph M. Souki, State Representative Derek S. K. Kawakami, State Representative Daynette "Dee" Morikawa, State Representative James Kunane Tokioka, State Department of Health, Child and Adolescent Mental Health Division (CAMHD), and Mayor Bernard P. Carvalho, Jr." This is introduced by Councilmember KipuKai Kuali`i. Councilmember Kuali`i: So to answer Councilmember Yukimura's question about the dollars and how much it would actually cost, the "whereas" that talks about the estimation of operating a twenty (24) hour, seven (7) days a week Adolescent Treatment and Healing Center, they are estimating operating subsidies of between two hundred sixty-seven thousand dollars ($267,000) up to eight hundred sixty-five thousand dollars ($865,000) per year, depending on future assistance from the State of Hawaii and obviously other grant sources. That estimation was provided by the Administration. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: I am looking at the feasibility study on the proposed Residential Substance Abuse Treatment and Healing Facility for Adolescents on Kaua`i Final Report and it shows that the total cost, if there is no additional supplementary funds from anywhere else, which I have been waiting for at least three (3) years for the Administration to show us where these additional funds will come from and I have not seen any hard evidence of it, would be one million two hundred thousand dollars ($1,200,000). I think that is kind of low. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Councilmember Hooser. Councilmember Hooser: I have a question for the introducer. How many adolescents would this serve annually? Councilmember Kuali`i: Let us have someone from the Administration come up and help me with that question. Councilmember Hooser: Where would the additional revenue come from again? Council Chair Rapozo: I will suspend the rules. I do want to get the public testimony in before we break for lunch, which will be at 12:30 p.m., so how many of you have signed up to testify? Okay. Let us just ask the question, and then we can get the public up because I am not sure if they can come back after the lunch break. Councilmember Hooser: The Resolution calls for a commitment for funding and it talks about five (5) acres, but does not say how many adolescents it would serve. COUNCIL MEETING 57 MARCH 23, 2016 Council Chair Rapozo: Please state your name. There being no objections, the rules were suspended. THERESA KOKI, Life's Choices Kaua`i Coordinator: Theresa Koki for the record, Life's Choices Kaua`i Coordinator. For the 24/7 operation, we have a proposed amount of eight (8) beds for youth; however, the center itself will be serving youth on an outpatient basis as well. Councilmember Hooser: So eight (8) beds? Ms. Koki: Correct. Councilmember Hooser: So the subsidy would be to service those eight (8) beds? Ms. Koki: Correct. Councilmember Hooser: Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: How many youth are we expected to service inpatient/outpatient? Ms. Koki: For one (1) year? Council Chair Rapozo: Yes. Ms. Koki: I would say over two hundred (200). Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. That is the number I think we were trying to figure out. Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: How many are you serving for the residential treatment, not the outpatient? How many patients would you serve in one (1) year? Ms. Koki: I cannot anticipate that right now. NADINE K. NAKAMURA, Managing Director: Nadine Nakamura, Managing Director. We have several scenarios worked out, depending on the type of revenues used to pay for the client that is referred to the residential treatment center. Depending on the source of funding, for example, whether it is private pay, whether it is private insurance, whether it is the State Department of Health (DOH) paying for it, it will determine how long a patient or client may stay in the facility. So we have several scenarios that we can outline with you and describe to you. It would range roughly based on the number of bed nights, from twelve (12) to seventy-nine (79) clients per year. We can go through the various scenarios with you. Councilmember Yukimura: Twelve (12) to seventy-nine (79) clients. COUNCIL MEETING 58 MARCH 23, 2016 Ms. Nakamura: Excuse me—yes, twelve (12) to seventy-nine (79) based on the type of payment for the use of the facility. Councilmember Yukimura: Using eight (8) beds? Ms. Nakamura: That is correct. Excuse me, that is in the first year start up, but when the full eight (8) beds are potentially used it would range between sixteen (16) to one hundred five (105). Councilmember Yukimura: My understanding is that referrals will not be made unless there is confidence in the services that are rendered. That was one of the issues with the two (2) neighbor island adolescent treatment centers that closed down, that there were not enough referrals made to them. How do you assure that there will be referrals made? Council Chair Rapozo: I am going to stop you there, Nadine, because I want to get to public testimony. It sounds like we are going deep into it and I really did not want go to there today. That is what this Resolution is saying. We will provide the funding if it falls short. We, this body and this Administration, will make sure through a commitment in funding. I want to get the public up here because I know that some of them cannot come back after lunch and I think that is the most important thing right now. We can have the discussion in detail afterwards. Ms. Nakamura: I will be happy to answer that question. Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, thank you. With that, can we call the first speaker, please? Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The first speaker is Matthew Bernabe, followed by Kimberly Cummings. Mr. Bernabe: Matthew Bernabe for the record. First of all, I will go on record to say that I completely support this one hundred percent (100%). The thing that I want to emphasize is the outpatient, because I only hear about looking for grant funding. I want to hear about creating revenue by enterprise. I want to see farming from ground to packaging, created by this opportunity here. I have already testified my background and that a lot of work, purpose, and a few good people in my life prevented me from becoming a statistic. That is a fact. To fund these eight (8) beds—and by the way, if you have a chronic ice problem, it is going to take nine (9) months minimum. You are not going to solve that in three (3), not six (6), some do not solve it in nine (9); some take two (2) years to really get off of that habitual problem. I know because I have buried my friends. My resume is strong in this field, trust me. Funerals—I have been to them. I know. If we do not use this opportunity to really create something that we can include, not just the gone and we need to really bring them back, but the at-risk, and not only the at-risk, the ones that never would be at-risk. This is something that can benefit them because this is a collaborative issue that we can expand and make satellite washing process units for small farms and really start exporting food and making revenue come in so that we do not always have to be subject to the State, as we argue day in and day out about the Transient Accommodations Tax. For one, I COUNCIL MEETING 59 MARCH 23, 2016 support this, but I really think this is an opportunity to set the example. I know well that the programs where you just put them in the room and they do all of the standardized stuff—there is a very high rate that they return to that lifestyle. My daughter has friends that ask if they can camp. Some of them have graduated the Honolulu program and they come back and have no job or any work experience. They only have experience of socializing in a crowd and dealing with specific isometric problems, but we live in a holistic world. We need to really look at this and utilize this opportunity and spend these resources wisely. Thank you very much. Council Chair Rapozo: I know we have a list, but is there anyone who signed up to testify and will not be able to come back after lunch? I would ask that you allow the people that cannot come back after lunch to speak, and then we will go from there. Thank you. KIMBERLY CUMMINGS: Aloha Council. My name is Kimberly Cummings. Council Chair Rapozo: Do you need a tissue? Can somebody bring the box of tissues to her, please? I will need a box, too. I am not joking. Ms. Cummings: I am so passionate about this subject. My name is Kimberly Cummings and I am a recovering addict. Today, I am a Clinical Director of an intensive outpatient treatment facility on Kaua`i that helps men and women in our community and I run a clean and sober transitional supportive living home on the island. You need to know that I have a house full of women that started drugs in their adolescent years. I have two (2) out of eighteen (18) women that had help during their adolescent years. It was not available, and if it was available it was away from home—out of their healing environment, out of their supportive environment, and away from people that they knew loved them and supported them. We need this. Thank you, Councilmember Kuali`i, for introducing this. We really need the support in this Resolution. We need to build this for our children to help them heal here and support them in their healing. We need to show that we are willing to do whatever it takes to help them heal. We still send people away to get healing from cancer and all kinds of other diseases. This is a family disease addiction. Please support this Resolution. I could go on and on with testimony about my life and how far I have come. I know my parents did the best they could with what they had here at the time, but I wish it was available for me back then. I would not have been an adult battling for my life. I revert back to the people that I help today. I have only two (2) people that did not start as adolescents and those two (2) people started at eighteen (18). Please support this Resolution. It makes a difference. Thank you. Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Kalia Boiser Gomes, followed by Connie Rowe. KALIA BOISER GOMES: Hello. My name is Kalia Boiser Gomes. I started using drugs at a young age. I was introduced to marijuana and alcohol at age twelve (12). At age fourteen (14), I was using these two (2) substances frequently. At age fifteen (15), I began using cocaine. At age sixteen (16), I was drinking alcohol and using marijuana, cocaine, ecstasy, and various other pills. Not COUNCIL MEETING 60 MARCH 23, 2016 long after, all of this led me to a suicide attempt. I ended up at Wilcox Memorial Hospital at the Intensive Care Unit (ICU) for five (5) days. Immediately after that, I was medivacked to Kahi Mohala Behavioral Health on O`ahu. During the two (2) weeks I was there, it was the saddest and loneliest time in my life. I felt really unsupported because I was missing my family. Had there been an adolescent treatment center on the island at the time, I feel I would have gotten the help I needed. Instead, this is now a problem that is carried on into my adult life. I believe we need an adolescent treatment center here on Kaua`i because there are many teenagers suffering with the disease of addiction and if that problem is not addressed, like me, their disease will progress. I am in full support of the Resolution. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you, Kalia. Next speaker. Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Connie Rowe, followed by Deborah Vannoy-Botelho. CONNIE ROWE: Good morning. I am a student at KCC and a member of the PAU Violence group on campus. In that role on campus, T meet with many of the students on our campus that have an addiction to the drugs that have started when they were younger and are continuing on through. I did not realize that we did not have an adolescent program on our island until recently. Again, I would like to thank you for bringing this up. A lot of the children that I speak to, and I call them children...they are young adults now...that started when they were younger wish they had a program at that time because they may not have continued. They would have been able to get help. Parents could not afford to send them off-island to get the assistance that they needed and do not have the coverage on their medical insurance that provides for those types of treatments. This program would aid our island greatly in our youth from continuing. It would also help those that are currently using and keep the younger ones from using. They do support the others not using. The ones that are currently addicted do try to help the younger ones, but it is not enough. We do need this program. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Deborah Vannoy-Botelho, followed by Susie Ohlen. DEBORAH VANNOY-BOTELHO: My name is Deborah Vannoy-Botelho. I, too, started at a young age at eighteen (18) and did not get the help until I was thirty-seven (37). I really think that teenagers nowadays need the most help before they get into their adulthood and attempt suicide and all that kind of stuff. Being addicted to drugs and alcohol leads to suicide. I am one hundred percent (100%) in support of the Resolution. That is all I have. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Susie Ohlen. SUSIE OHLEN: My name is Susie Ohlen, followed by Lani Nagao. COUNCIL MEETING 61 MARCH 23, 2016 Council Chair Rapozo: Good afternoon, Susie. SUSIE OHLEN: Good morning. My name is Susie Ohlen. First and foremost, I want us to realize that in some way or another, we all have children and if we save one (1) life, it is worth it. I had a mother who was in addiction and at the time it was not dealt with. It was prescription drugs and we just did not talk about it. I have four (4) children and we need to talk about it. We need to save lives. I feel like the amount of money that you folks are proposing...if you save that one (1) life, the repercussions of that are going to save more lives, whether it be through good example or just taking action. I feel that the other islands do have these institutions and hospitals, but we need it here and I do not think it is a lot to ask to save some kids. It is going to make jobs available to other people and also have the ripple effect of doing good. Children want you to listen to them. They do not want to be pushed aside; they want to be listened to. When you listen to your children, they respect you. I am all for this and I ask that you please pass it. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Lani Nagao, followed by Uma Sivanathan. LANI NAGAO: Hi. My name is Lani Nagao, representing the McKenna Recovery Center. I am here today to support the intent to establish an adolescent residential treatment center on the island. Thank you for efforts. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Uma Sivanathan, followed by Madeleine Hiraga-Nuccio. UMA SIVANATHAN: Hello. I am Uma Sivanathan. I have been a resident on Kaua`i for over thirty-five (35) years and I have a son who has been struggling with crystal methamphetamine addiction for nine (9) years after the passing of his brother from a surfing accident. I have seen this struggle for a long time and there has not been anything on Kaua`i that has served my son's needs. He has been in and out of jail and in rehab. When we are talking about money, I think in his case that may have cost a lot more for the services out there that he has been in. I believe that if we had been able to address it at a young age...he did start at a young age without me really knowing until later that if we could have addressed this problem, as this Adolescent Treatment and Healing Center will do, I believe that he could have recovered and living a normal, productive life here. I totally support this. I really feel that it is not a matter of money...I mean I know it is, but I think in the long run it will save lives and save money to tell you the truth. Thank you. Please support this. Council Chair Rapozo: thank you Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Madeleine Hiraga-Nuccio, followed by Arthur Brun. COUNCIL MEETING 62 MARCH 23, 2016 MADELEINE HIRAGA-NUCCIO, Branch Chief, Kaua`i Family Guidance Center: Good morning, Councilmembers. My name is my Madeleine Hiraga-Nuccio. I am the Branch Chief at the Kaua`i Family Guidance Center, representing the Department of Health Child and Adolescent Mental Health Division (CAMHD) this morning. I would like to offer information regarding the County's plan to construct a facility for an adolescent drug treatment on Kaua`i. There are several concerns to be addressed prior to proceeding with the construction plan. Staff of the Child and Adolescent Mental Health Division have had several discussions and has been consulted by County officials regarding funding, especially available for operation of a treatment program. CAMHD staff have noted that it would be essential at any such venture, identifying multiple sources of income, including private insurance options, even though we recognize that those are generally more restrictive in terms of length of treatment; however, it is important to have a diversified revenue stream. CAMHD staff have also noted that a key component to viability and sustainability is the ability to maintain maximum occupancy. To accomplish this, it would be necessary to recruit clients from well beyond Kaua`i island and possibly expanding marketing, even to the mainland. Priority could still be given to clients from Kaua`i. However, unfilled beds would absolutely result in the demise of the program. If the intention is to provide residential services to both males and females, it is important to realize that fixed operational costs will have to include double staffing. CAMHD staff have been clear also in advising that there are limited state funds or passed-through federal funds for residential programs beyond those that are currently contracted through CAMHD. Those are Bobby Benson Center, Marimed Foundation, and Child and Family Service Ka Pa Ola Program. CAMHD funds currently pay for those contractors to maintain their bed availability; nonetheless, result in a guaranteed contract that is paying for unfilled beds, unfortunately, a regular condition. We at CAMHD acknowledge the very positive intentions of the Council to address a significant health problem with long-term negative effects on our entire community. We are involved daily in these efforts and welcome the opportunity to work together with the County to provide support and information as the County develops a well-designed business plan to accomplish the goals of preventing and treating substance abuse problems on Kaua`i. Thank you very much for your time. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Can you come back after lunch? Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: Yes, I can. Council Chair Rapozo: I would ask that you be here as a resource person so we can have some dialogue. I would appreciate that. Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The last registered speaker is Arthur Brun. ARTHUR BRUN: Arthur Brun. I will try to get through this. As Kim said, this really hits home. I started using drugs when I was fifteen (15) years old and entered a rehab at twenty-one (21) on O`ahu. Once you are off-island, COUNCIL MEETING 63 MARCH 23, 2016 it is hard because you do not have family there and you do not have the support that you need. When this was coming up, I called the Mayor personally and told him that I want to be on his committee and be a part of this solution and try to help us move forward. I think it was in 2010 when Council Chair Rapozo and I went out to Anahola when they had some issues...I think somebody suicided out there and we went out there to try and talk to the youth. This facility can help with some of that, where the kids can get someplace to go, a safe haven, where they can look for help that they need and talk to people to help them out. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura, I cannot help, but...excuse me—when a person is speaking, and maybe you do not recognize this, but when you are doing the "no nod," I think it is very, very disrespectful to the speaker. You do it a lot and I was hoping you...they are here to speak and when you do that, it is distracting. It distracts me. I can only imagine how the speaker feels. If you want to acknowledge what they are saying with a "yes nod" then that is fine. When you do the "no nod," I do not think that is appropriate. Councilmember Yukimura: I apologize for doing that. It is just that some of the counseling and stuff is not going to happen at an adolescent drug treatment center. Council Chair Rapozo: Again, we are not here to dispute or debate with the speaker. He is making a... Councilmember Yukimura: No, that is true, Chair. But if we are able to ask questions then we would be able to clarify things. Council Chair Rapozo: Well, we are not going to go there. Councilmember Yukimura: Right now, we are not able to do that. Council Chair Rapozo: You will have an opportunity to clarify whatever you believe is right or wrong. Councilmember Yukimura: No, that is not true. We do not have an opportunity. Council Chair Rapozo: Again, I am sorry, Mr. Brun. Councilmember Yukimura: I am sorry, too. Mr. Brun: We can look at it as money, but if you really look deep down inside, every one of you folks were touched with somebody on drugs—everyone. You can say "no," but we are looking at money. Is somebody's life worth this, "No, let us cut back here or cut back there?" We need this on-island. These are the children of our future. Give them a chance in life. It is not the child's fault that they grew up in a broken home or that the family does drugs. Give the child a chance. Give the youth a chance. If it is up to me, we will build a center that can also house adults also because that is some of our other trouble, which is trying to save the adults. We are looking at an adolescent center, so it is a start; it is somewhere to go. Once we get it going, we can look at alternative solutions like COUNCIL MEETING 64 MARCH 23, 2016 farming and whatever else we can do moving forward, but let us get the initial process out first before we try to look at other solutions right now and try to move forward to help our youth, because they are the children of our future. If we cannot help them, nobody will. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Any other registered speakers? Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: No further registered speakers. Council Chair Rapozo: If not, anybody in the audience wishing to testify? Chief, will you be available as well after lunch? I know you are a busy person. DARRYL PERRY, Chief of Police: Sure. Darryl Perry, Chief of Police for the Kauai Police Department. I submitted a written testimony and that is why I was not going to say anything, but our viewing public needs to know what I wrote. It was a memorandum to the Council, basically saying...I am going read it verbatim: "Thank you for this opportunity to offer my written testimony in support of the proposed Adolescent Treatment and Healing Center. As you know, the Kauai Police Department has a vested interest..." This is interesting...I made a mistake in my written testimony. "We have a vested interest in exploring options other than incarceration with regard to youth who may have a predisposition to drug abuse. We also understand that there are a vast number of factors associated with drug abuse that must be identified, isolated, and addressed with proper expert care in order to help those who are in need, particularly preteens, teens, and young adults. It is for those reasons that the Kaua`i Police Department believes that the proposed Adolescent Treatment and Healing Center will address those issues and turn our children away from a destiny of self-destruction toward a path, where a brighter future awaits. It is more critical in this day and age, as pro-marijuana advocates continue to move the State towards legalization. A recent study..." and I have attached that information for you to look at later on, "...entitled `The Legalization of Marijuana in Colorado,' completed in September 2015 by the Rocky Mountain High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area, reveals the negative impacts associated with medical and legalized marijuana among the youth in Colorado. Sincerely, Chief Daryl Perry." I just want to say one more thing before my time expires. I mentioned before that Bobby Benson, when I was a detective in Honolulu, I handled a case where he was a burglary suspect and I ended up arresting him. I knew at that time that he had a drug problem. Unfortunately, he was never treated for the issues that he had and his father was a Major with the Juvenile Crime Prevention Division and even he could not help his son. Eventually, his son passed away. I remember talking to Bobby and he was in tears because he could not control himself. That is a sad statement, too. We had an opportunity to help him and we did not, and he subsequently passed away. I do not want this to happen again to any of our children here on Kaua`i and whatever it costs, it is well-worth it. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you, Chief. Anyone else wishing to testify for the first time? Mr. Taylor: Chair and Members of the Council, my name is Ken Taylor. My youngest son got involved in drugs and was in a facility similar COUNCIL MEETING 65 MARCH 23, 2016 to this for a period of time. Fortunately, he has lived a clean life for the last fifteen (15) years now, so I am very happy for that. But I go back to a couple of things and I am concerned that when the report that was commissioned by the Mayor's Office or the drug rehab people, it said that three (3) to five (5) at any given time on the island could qualify to be in this facility. I am very concerned about that because what are we going to do with the rest of the beds? Are we going to bring people from other islands to fill them to make this thing viable? I do not know. There were a lot of questions asked the last time this was before you that raised concerns about the cost, not only of building the facility, but operations. The numbers seemed to have changed downward. I doubt that these numbers are accurate. I think one million two hundred thousand dollars ($1,200,000) was a more accurate number, but as far as building a facility here for three (3) to five (5) people in any given year—a lot of people misunderstand that this project takes care of all people with drug problems and it does not. There are still a whole lot of people out there. In fact, the majority of the people on the island that have a drug problem will not be part of this operation and that is very concerning. If there are three (3) to five (5) people that need to be sent to another facility, it would almost be cheaper for us once or twice a month to give the family an airplane ticket and let them go than to build a new facility for the three (3) to five (5) people. Anyway, I am opposed to moving forward with this project at this point in time until more answers are brought forth for how do we pay for it. Right now, we are hoping that we can find some grants to operate this facility. That is not good enough; not in our budget conditions today. I will be back. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you, Ken. Anyone else wishing to speak for the first time? BRUCE HART: For the record, Bruce Hart. I spoke the last time this issue came before the Council and there is currently a drug and alcohol rehabilitation program on-island called "U-Turn for Christ." I believe that one of reasons that the pastor, Pastor Alex and other members of the Christian community, are not here is because this type of program does not allow Christian ministers to go on site and speak to these children about Jesus Christ. That is my objection. I served at a local ministry that housed U-Turn for Christ and I have heard stories, more than one, like the gentleman that got up here and spoke that he was addicted to drugs. I have worked with these men and have gone down to the U-Turn for Christ ranch and prayed for these men in the name of Jesus Christ. My only objection to this is that you would allow us to have access to these children in order to be able to tell them, not to force-feed them, but just to be able to ask them, would they like to know the Lord Jesus? Would they like him in their lives to be able to teach them about that truth? That is my only objection. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Anyone else wishing to speak for the first time? Second time? Okay. Ms. Ohlen: Susie Ohlen. I would like to state that before I did not mention that we are naive to think that you cannot fill ten (10) beds. That is ridiculous. You are going to be able to fill these beds once you start reaching out and people know that they can get their children help. One of the things that I forgot to mention was the fact that a lot of drug abuse in adolescents and their parents leads to physical abuse, which leads to Child Protective Services (CPS) COUNCIL MEETING 66 MARCH 23, 2016 cases and I did some research that for the CPS cases that they have, a lot have to do with drug addicted parents and their children. They are being ripped out of homes because of the drug addiction...yes, however it is neglect. I think that if we can just get this done and give it a try, what would it hurt? What would it hurt to see if we could change lives and families all over? That is what it is about. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Mr. Bernabe: Matt Bernabe for the record. A lot of rehabilitation does require medical assistance in the form of medication or therapy and a lot of it has other factors that go into it; however, purpose, and I will repeat it, purpose is the primary reason somebody pulls themselves out of the rut. I mean that can be with or without Jesus. I am not advocating for or against it. I am saying that you have to have purpose and if Jesus is that purpose, then better yet. But for the ones that do not want to follow that path, we have to have some kind of mechanism for them to be worth something in society. If you go and make three (3) male, three (3) female beds to start and you build this piece of property to have the outpatients to support it within working enterprises...you have a large piece of land. We invest in the technology side where we can package after we clean the vegetables, and package it, and part of those kids will be the kids that go out and look for the people that are going to buy it. Now you have a diversified program that some may not want to be working with the high-tech side of the computer laser packaging. Nowadays, you can print to order something. Somebody shows up with their ginger and they want to package it for the farmers market and make it legitimate, they are able to bring their stuff here, not even the stuff that the kids grow. We need to create revenue to support this and enterprise gives not only the revenue, but the purpose. We need purpose and revenue, not just to thrown them in there and let them talk to the "specialist." I could qualify for a better specialist. Trust me, I do it all of the time. Some of these people that are adults today is because I have personally have helped talked them out of the rut that they were in. I, myself pulled myself out of the rut. Right now, the opportunity to really hit this out of the park...we all agree that we need the facility and that it is going to cost money. Let us all agree to give these kids some purpose and let them earn some of the money. Who knows? Maybe we can add on beds or add an adult wing. Maybe we can even make a surplus of money to help address some of these issues that we have discussed here today. This is the kind of the out-of-the-box thinking that the County of Kaua`i needs to really start considering and not just going and raising vehicle weight taxes, gas taxes, and general excise taxes. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you, Matt. Anyone else wishing to speak for a second time? Mr. Taylor: Ken Taylor for the record. As I said earlier, the cost is concerning to me for the amount of activity that we will get out of it. On the second page in the "whereas" at the bottom that says, "WHEREAS, the County of Kaua`i, Office of the Mayor, Life's Choices Kaua`i is committed to exploring and applying for grants..." This issue was first talked about at a public meeting at the Lihu`e community center...I do not know...four (4) or five (5) years ago at least. If they were really committed to exploring...they have had four (4) or five (5) years to do so and we would have some knowledge today of what was available, if anything. This is the problem and the issues that were raised the last time this issue was COUNCIL MEETING 67 MARCH 23, 2016 before you: where will this operating money come from? It is not in the budget today. What are we going to give up in order to make this work for three (3) to five (5) people, which I do not disagree should have some help? There are alternatives to it and we need to look at these alternatives. All that has gone on from the beginning of this whole process is that "this is what we are going to do and we are going to do it; we have the five (5) acres and we are going to do it and ask somebody to give us this money; we are going to go out of our way and commit to exploring where we are going to get the money to operate." But five (5) years has passed and nothing has happened. There is no commitment to explore. They have not done it. If they have, we have not seen the results. Where are the results of their exploration? We need to get some answers before we go forward again with this "ready, fire, aim" activity. It keeps coming up and coming up, over and over again, and it is time to put a stop to it until we have all the right answers, and then move forward. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else wishing to testify? Mr. Hart: For the record, I said I was for this Resolution. I think that is what we are talking about, is it not? The resolution that we want is something that is going to help the children. So the budgeting of it is going to come up if we ever get that far where we are going to break down. We are going to have to do the budget. Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else? Ms. Sivanathan: In listening to Matt Bernabe—I hope I am pronouncing it correctly—I completely agree with the exploration of how the center could become as self-sufficient as possible, and I do see that there is a lot of potential. I do believe that the purpose part of it is very, very important. I feel that a lot of times on Kaua`i, our children do not have the purpose, the incentive to...they have a boredom, which is why often times they will try these drugs. Giving them a land-based purpose, working on the land, and then creating revenue could be very inspiring, so I am excited about that. I also have the question about will there be a fee for service for the beds? Will that bring in income? I do not know that answer, but it seems like there will be income coming into the center for outpatient services and everything. Can we look at that? How much will be coming in versus how much will be brought in by grants or outside costs? I am very excited about the land base because I know there is a successful program on Hawai`i island, and I am not sure of the name of it, but they are working in a culturally-based program that is very successful with addictions. I am excited and I hope that we can look further into the land base part of it. Councilmember Yukimura: May you please provide information on that Hawai`i island program? Ms. Sivanathan: Yes. Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else wishing to testify? If not, we are going to take our lunch break and be back at 1:35 p.m. We have a public hearing at COUNCIL MEETING 68 MARCH 23, 2016 1:30 p.m. We will have Theresa and the Administration come up after lunch to answer any questions. The State will be here as well. Did she leave? She is here. Okay. Then we will go from there. With that, thank you. We will be back at 1:35 p.m. There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 12:32 p.m. The meeting reconvened at 1:37 p.m., and proceeded as follows: Council Vice Chair Kagawa: Okay, we are going to go back to the regular council meeting. Can we take care of some housekeeping things like the bills for first reading? Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: On page number 7, we have Resolution No. 2016-33. There being no objections, Resolution No. 2016-33 was taken out of order. RESOLUTIONS: Resolution No. 2016-33 — RESOLUTION CONFIRMING MAYORAL APPOINTMENT TO THE LIQUOR CONTROL COMMISSION (Gary A. Pacheco): Councilmember Kuali`i moved for adoption of Resolution No. 2016-33, seconded by Councilmember Chock. Council Vice Chair Kagawa: Any discussion? Anyone from the public wishing to speak on this? Seeing none, roll call. The motion for adoption of Resolution No. 2016-33 was then put, and carried by the following vote: FOR ADOPTION: Chock, Hooser, Kagawa, Kaneshiro, Kuali`i, Yukimura, Rapozo TOTAL— 7*, AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL — 0, EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0, RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0. (*Pursuant to Rule No. 5(b) of the Rules of the Council of the County of Kauai, Councilmember Hooser, Councilmember Yukimura, and Council Chair Rapozo were noted as silent (not present), but shall be recorded as an affirmative for the motion.) Resolution No. 2016-34 — RESOLUTION APPOINTING A REPRESENTATIVE AND ALTERNATE TO THE EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE OF THE HAWAII STATE ASSOCIATION OF COUNTIES AND NOMINATING A REPRESENTATIVE TO SERVE AS A BOARD MEMBER OF THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF COUNTIES: Councilmember Kuali`i moved for adoption of Resolution No. 2016-34, seconded by Councilmember Kaneshiro. Council Vice Chair Kagawa: Any discussion? Anyone from the public wishing to speak on this? Seeing none, roll call. COUNCIL MEETING 69 MARCH 23, 2016 The motion for adoption of Resolution No. 2016-34 was then put, and carried by the following vote: FOR ADOPTION: Chock, Hooser, Kagawa, Kaneshiro, Kuali`i, Yukimura, Rapozo TOTAL— 7*, AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL — 0, EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0, RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0. (*Pursuant to Rule No. 5(b) of the Rules of the Council of the County of Kauai, Councilmember Hooser, Councilmember Yukimura and Council Chair Rapozo were noted as silent (not present), but shall be recorded as an affirmative for the motion.) (Councilmember Hooser was noted as present.) Councilmember Chock: Clerk, just a point of clarification, the resolution that we previously voted on was for Gary Pacheco. I just wanted to make sure. Okay, good. Thank you. Council Vice Chair Kagawa: Yes. Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Vice Chair, did you want to take the Real Property Tax Rates Resolution at this time? Council Vice Chair Kagawa: Sure. Wait, the Chair is back now. I will turn it back to you, Chair. We took care of some housekeeping items. It is your choice as to where you want to go from here. (Council Chair Rapozo was noted as present.) (Council Vice Chair Kagawa returned chairmanship duties to Council Chair Rapozo.) Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Chair, the public hearing has been concluded. We are on page number 7. We have the two (2) Housing resolutions and also the Real Property Tax Rates Resolution to take care of. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. There being no objections, Resolution No. 2016-29 was taken out of order. Resolution No. 2016-29 — RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE FILING OF THE KAUAI COUNTY 2016 ACTION PLAN (HOME INVESTMENT PARTNERSHIPS PROGRAM) WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, FOR A GRANT UNDER TITLE II OF THE CRANSTON-GONZALEZ NATIONAL AFFORDABLE HOUSING ACT (PUBLIC LAW 101-625), AS AMENDED: Councilmember Kagawa moved for adoption of Resolution No. 2016-29, seconded by Councilmember Chock. COUNCIL MEETING 70 MARCH 23, 2016 Council Chair Rapozo: Any discussion or public testimony? If not, roll call. The motion for adoption of Resolution No. 2016-29 was then put, and carried by the following vote: FOR ADOPTION: Chock, Hooser, Kagawa, Kaneshiro, Kuali`i, Yukimura, Rapozo TOTAL— 7*, AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL— 0, EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0, RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0. (*Pursuant to Rule No. 5(b) of the Rules of the Council of the County of Kaua`i, Councilmember Yukimura was noted as silent (not present), but shall be recorded as an affirmative for the motion.) Council Chair Rapozo: Next item, please. (Councilmember Yukimura was noted as present.) Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: I am sorry, were these Housing resolutions supposed to be deferred? Councilmember Kaneshiro: Council Chair, I know we went kind of fast on that. For the one we just voted on, were we going to defer for a presentation by the Housing Agency? Council Chair Rapozo: It is entirely up to the body. I read the material and I am fine with voting. If you folks want, we can. Councilmember Kaneshiro: I read it and I am okay with it as well. Council Chair Rapozo: Was anybody's vote contingent on it? We can have them come back and do a presentation afterwards. This is pretty much a recurring request. If everybody is okay with it, we can move on. Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Okay. We are on Resolution No. 2016-30. (Councilmember Kuali`i was noted as recused from Resolution No. 2016-30.) Resolution No. 2016-30 — RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE FILING OF THE KAUAI COUNTY 2016 ACTION PLAN (COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT) WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, FOR A GRANT UNDER TITLE I OF THE HOUSING AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT ACT OF 1974 AND 1987 (PUBLIC LAWS 93-383 AND 100-242), AS AMENDED: Councilmember Kagawa moved for adoption of Resolution No. 2016-30, seconded by Councilmember Chock. COUNCIL MEETING 71 MARCH 23, 2016 Council Chair Rapozo: Let the record reflect that Councilmember Kuali`i has stepped out, as he is recused from this item. Any discussion? Any public testimony? Seeing none, roll call. The motion for adoption of Resolution No. 2016-30 was then put, and carried by the following vote: FOR ADOPTION: Chock, Hooser, Kagawa, Kaneshiro, Yukimura, Rapozo TOTAL — 6, AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL — 0, EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0, RECUSED & NOT VOTING: Kuali`i TOTAL — 1. (Councilmember Kuali`i was noted as present.) Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Next item. Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next item is Resolution No. 2016-35. There being no objections, Resolution No. 2016-35 was taken out of the order. Resolution No. 2016-35 — RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING THE REAL PROPERTY TAX RATES FOR THE FISCAL YEAR JULY 1, 2016 TO JUNE 30, 2017 FOR THE COUNTY OF KAUAI: Councilmember Kagawa moved to schedule a public hearing for May 11, 2016 at 5:00 p.m., and that it thereafter be referred to the Budget & Finance Committee, seconded by Councilmember Chock. Council Chair Rapozo: Any discussion? Public testimony? If not, roll call. The motion to schedule a public hearing for May 11, 2016 at 5:00 p.m., and that it thereafter be referred to the Budget & Finance Committee was then put, and carried by the following vote: FOR MOTION: Chock, Hooser, Kagawa, Kaneshiro, Kuali`i, Yukimura, Rapozo TOTAL — 7, AGAINST MOTION: None TOTAL — 0, EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0, RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Next item. Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: We are back to Resolution No. 2016-36. We have one (1) additional speaker who has registered to speak. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. With that, I will suspend the rules if there are no objections, then we can have the speaker. Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The speaker is Norma Doctor Sparks. There being no objections, the rules were suspended. COUNCIL MEETING 72 MARCH 23, 2016 NORMA DOCTOR SPARKS: Good afternoon. Norma Doctor Sparks for Families First Hawai`i Services. Thank you for this opportunity. I have some information, as well as some concerns about the resolution to construct the facility for Adolescent Treatment and Healing Center on Kaua`i. As you know, Steven Sparks and I completed the feasibility study in 2013. At that time, we did support a residential treatment facility for adolescents because we found that there was a need based on data that we received from the judiciary, as well as the Department of Health. At that time, we did recommend a pilot first because we were not really sure whether or not there was going to be sufficient referrals to the program. I support the idea of a residential treatment program. I do note that in 2013, however, the shortfall is actually one million sixty thousand dollars ($1,060,000). I know the resolution talks about eight hundred thousand dollars ($800,000) or so, but based on employees, the total personnel costs, utilities, telephone, food, business insurance, et cetera, it came out to one million sixty thousand dollars ($1,060,000), regardless of whether or not there are one (1) or two (2) children in that program. I believe that this county could have a national model for substance abuse. As you know, I have had a lot of experience across the United States in looking at programs for adolescents. I believe that there could be a great model here because of the environment that we live in. But I do have a concern that the resolution does not really address the concern about building a building first, and then trying to figure out what services will go in there. I would suggest that instead of doing it that way, that the program actually be defined, and then build a building or use an existing building, depending on the needs of the service program. I do think that there might be a concern about the redirection of the funds and possibly increasing revenue. When we did the study, we did talk about a pilot because we felt that it would be more reasonable to begin with. We know that there are agencies in Hawaii that have failed because of the lack of referrals to the programs because they were found to be ineffective. There is a need here in Hawaii, on Kaua`i specifically, for an adolescent treatment facility, but I do have these concerns and I hope that you will consider them as you really consider this Resolution. Thank you very much. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: Chair, I want to ask if we have already identified Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio as a resource person. Is there someone else, too? Council Chair Rapozo: No, that was it. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. I think Ms. Sparks is a resource person, and also her husband as the writer of the feasibility study. Council Chair Rapozo: I would agree that she had participated. Councilmember Yukimura: So I would like to be able to ask questions, if not right now, at the end of the public testimony. Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, as long as she will be available. Ms. Sparks: Certainly. COUNCIL MEETING 73 MARCH 23, 2016 Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else wishing to testify? If not, I will ask the Administration to come up now. First, Councilmember Kuali`i. Councilmember Kuali`i: I just wanted to mention the other testimony because it does not look like some of them are here. There are about four (4) or five (5) others if you look in your handouts. We did receive testimony of support from Alan Johnson, the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of Hina Mauka and he was also on the Kaua`i Blue Ribbon panel that did the work. We also received testimony from Holly Walker, who is the President of Friends of the Children's Justice Center of Kaua`i; Scott Giarman, the Executive Director of Kaua`i United Way; and Maile Murray, who is our Certified Substance Abuse Counselor at Child and Family Services. They are all testimony of support. In writing, we also received testimony of opposition from Lavern Bishop as an individual resident. Thank you, Chair. Ms. Koki: Aloha. Theresa Koki for the record. Council Chair Rapozo: Do you have any comments? You might want to give us an overview. I am assuming that the Administration is in support of this Resolution. Ms. Koki: Well, I would like to clarify a few things that were said on the Council floor earlier today. One was that you were waiting three (3) years for me to respond to give you information on the treatment center, when we have sent over six (6) correspondences through questions during the budget and other times to respond to the questions. Some of the times we said that we could not answer that question at that time, but I think we have answered most of the questions. The other thing is I want to let people know that when you say things like we have not done anything for four (4) years, I have been working on this project for most of my time and I really want to move on to something, but there is a thing called "procurement law," and right now this adolescent treatment center is kind of like a "white elephant" and it does not exist, so you cannot apply for any grants. It just does not exist. In the resolution, it also addresses that we make every effort to look for funding when the time is appropriate. Even for the Department of Health to tell us that they are not going to give us funds for beds...during a Request For Proposal (RFP) when we have a building, you cannot discriminate against people wanting who have a good RFP to ask for the beds. Even the suggestion in the feasibility study to get the eight (8) beds secured....that is totally illegal. You cannot do that. We have had a lot of discussions with the Department of Health and all of their branches that treat adolescents. We have had discussions with the Office of Youth Services and the Kaua`i Youth Correctional Facility, and there is a report that came out to the Legislature, that we leave our kids on Kauai in prison longer than any other island because there is nothing for them to return to here. These are kids that ran away and maybe was caught with an ounce of marijuana, and we leave them there for numerous months without a treatment program, without an assessment, and if you saw the recent years lately, the Office of Youth Services operating the Hawai`i Correctional Facility spent one million five hundred thousand dollars ($1,500,000) in overtime. That is where all of this money is going. We even noted at a recent training with the Hawai`i Youth COUNCIL MEETING 74 MARCH 23, 2016 Services network that we have fifty-five (55) kids incarcerated on the mainland through a contract with the Department of Health, the State of Hawai`i—fifty (55) of our kids are on a mainland prison. These are all of the data that nobody wants to give us, but it appears on the front page of the Star Bulletin once our State Legislature starts looking at these things. Why do we have empty beds and we keep sending our kids to correctional facilities off-island? For the part about Jesus, I just wanted to say that when you get into a residential treatment situation, you have the option of signing, when you sign your paper, what religion you belong to and if you want to receive your sacraments and if on Sunday you want your church to come by to meet with you or your family. So you do not get those rights taken away, so they can still practice their faith. I am ready to answer any other questions that you may have. Council Chair Rapozo: Would a faith-based organization be prohibited from running a facility and having faith-based principles? Ms. Koki: I am not sure if they could operate the facility as far as the licensure requirements in the State of Hawai`i. It would have to be people with credentials on the treatment part, but I am sure they would not be disqualified from even coming there to meet with the youth. The eight (8) beds that we talked about, I have spoken to Matt Bernabe and other people, including you folks earlier, about the opportunities for the agriculture, because it is agricultural land, for the kids to farm and do farmers markets. We have been working closely with the treatment centers on O`ahu and they have been giving us ideas about opportunities for the kids as well regarding auto mechanic shops and drafting opportunities in agriculture. At one time, we were looking at another property. It was this botanical garden aspect with orchids where this lady could teach them how to cross-pollinate orchids, roses, and other things, and just looking for things to keep the kids busy, not an institutional-like place. We want the whole continuum of care for the kids. We want to make sure that all of their school credits are transferable. Mr. Arakaki from the Department of Education (DOE), as well as the State Department of Education has pledged that they will support us by giving us a teacher. Grove Farm has donated the land. Prior to me becoming the anti-drug coordinator, I had a stranger who used to come here on vacation that gave us fifty thousand dollars ($50,000) and we still have it. For the first couple of youth that pass through the doors, he wanted to sponsor them, because as a child he had the same problem. Council Chair Rapozo: So what does this Resolution do for your effort? Is it basically a commitment for the Legislature? Ms. Koki: By the way, thank you very much to Councilmember Kuali`i and all of you who supports it. It is showing our Legislature that you folks are willing to support our kids here on our island so that they can move their Capital Improvement Projects (CIP) resolution further to show that everybody is in support of this and that we do want to go ahead and do the facility, but they would not support it without the commitment of operational funds. The "catch-22" for us is that we are going to look for grants, like I said, when we have it built or even prior to when we have plans. We could start looking for grants in that nature. For operational funds, I believe they will come from other sources, as well as the Juvenile Justice Reform. It takes one hundred ninety-nine thousand dollars COUNCIL MEETING 75 MARCH 23, 2016 ($199,000) to incarcerate one (1) kid for one (1) year. In the State of Hawai`i, it takes fifty thousand dollars ($50,000) less for that child to stay in treatment for so many months. Council Chair Rapozo: I just have one more question. I guess a few weeks ago, I went with you and Nadine Nakamura to meet with Senator Tokuda and we had that discussion about the Legislature's concerns about how the state agencies were being run, and that in fact, I suggested...why did they not do an audit? If they are so concerned...and it was interesting how she said, "Hmm, I guess we can do that." I do not know how else...is there any word on that? Are they moving forward on an audit of these agencies that are questionable? Ms. Koki: In January, Senator Tokuda was on the front page of the newspaper where she was talking about the Office of Youth Services with her one million five hundred thousand dollars ($1,500,000) in overtime, from the gardener to the top person. They anticipate overtime again this fiscal year, which was last fiscal year, so another one million dollars ($1,000,000) for thirty (30) inmates, because they went from like eighty (80), and when the Juvenile Justice kicked in, that is when they started sending our kids to the mainland treatment centers, just to alleviate—the harder crime criminals that are youth need to be in a correctional facility, but the ones that are not need treatment. They do not need to be there. So they started reducing their numbers, but we did not realize that there are five million one hundred thousand dollars ($5,100,000) in contracts from the Department of Health to mainland correctional facilities, and that is where our kids are going. That was the first place that she was going to audit, the Office of Youth Services, and I believe the next place was going to be where the Department of Health funds are going, because she is concerned that our kids are being sent to mainland treatment facilities, some of them without even their parents' knowledge. There was another article in the Star Bulletin about that. It was a seventeen (17) year old girl and her parents did not know where she was. They went to visit her at the facility that she went to and later on she was sent to a mainland facility without their knowledge and consent. This whole system has to be revamped and we are uncovering even worse things. Council Chair Rapozo: Again, the Legislature is aware and it is their job to go and fix it. They know it exists is what I am trying to say. Ms. Koki: In the Juvenile Justice Reform, and in fact, Judge Recktenwald did state this at the Hale `Opio board meeting that the moneys that they save in incarceration was going to be given to each county for residential treatment and outpatient treatment and I believe most of you were there to hear it straight from the Judge. Council Chair Rapozo: Any questions? Councilmember Chock. Councilmember Chock: Thank you, Theresa. The Resolution speaks about a low figure of two hundred sixty-seven thousand dollars ($267,000). We have also had testimony that it was in excess of one million dollars ($1,000,000) to operate and I wanted to know...I know we are kind of making this stuff up along the way because we are not clear of the plan, but how you can validate the true cost. What I mean by that and what I am looking for is even though we have not and COUNCIL MEETING 76 MARCH 23, 2016 cannot write for funds, what do you believe will be the need from operating funds from our County budget in the long run, given the fact that you will be seeking funds from the State and other grant opportunities? Ms. Koki: We do have a spreadsheet where we have to anticipate funds, of course, and the Managing Director Nadine Nakamura will take over this portion of the funding. Ms. Nakamura: Nadine Nakamura, Managing Director. What we are handing out is one part of the financial picture for the proposed Adolescent Treatment and Healing Center. The numbers that Councilmember Yukimura and Ms. Sparks mentioned earlier, ranging between one million dollars ($1,000,000) and one million two hundred thousand dollars ($1,200,000) is pretty much the numbers that we have been able to confirm in terms of the operation of this facility. Again, this is after talking to members of the Blue Ribbon Panel, who are familiar with operations. We have talked to many nonprofits and existing operators and they have actually looked at our numbers and said that these seem reasonable. So the one million two hundred thousand dollars ($1,200,000) for the overall operations is pretty much the number that is our working number. Now what you see in front of you are various scenarios for how the funding would happen, so I do not know if you want to get into this, but I just wanted to address your first question. Councilmember Chock: Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: Testimony from the Department of Health said that if you have both males and females, you will have to have two (2) sets of parents, 24/7. Has that been taken into account in your operating costs? I believe the figures that were in the feasibility study assumed it would be just one sex. Ms. Nakamura: We talked to the nonprofit operators, who currently received State DOH CAMHD funds, and they have looked at our numbers. We told them our assumptions, four (4) beds for girls and four (4) beds for boys. So the numbers pretty much reflect the feedback that we received. Councilmember Yukimura: Who are those nonprofit people you have spoken to? Have they run facilities? Ms. Nakamura: Yes, these are the two (2) current DOH operators. Councilmember Yukimura: So Bobby Benson and Marimed. Ms. Nakamura: That is correct. Councilmember Yukimura: Do they have both male and female? Ms. Nakamura: Yes, they do. Excuse me, Bobby Benson has male and females and I believe that Marimed, the facility that we looked at on the COUNCIL MEETING 77 MARCH 23, 2016 windward side of O`ahu, has only males in the one facility that, I think, Councilmember Kuali`i attended when we had that site visit. Councilmember Yukimura: In Bobby Benson, do they have two (2) sets of this...I forget what it is called... Councilmember Nakamura: They have many different designs of the facilities and very different approaches to providing the service. We have run the numbers past Bobby Benson to get that feedback since they do coeducational facilities. Councilmember Yukimura: Do they have double staff? Ms. Nakamura: Their staffing is based on the facility itself, which is...their design of the facility, they do have staffing at all...they are all 24/7 facilities, so we designed it around the feedback that we received. Councilmember Yukimura: Do they have ten (10) beds? Ms. Koki: They have twenty (20) plus beds. Ms. Nakamura: Yes, I think they can accommodate up to thirty (30). Ms. Koki: I think thirty-six (36). Twenty (20) beds are paid for by the Department of Health. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Ms. Nakamura: These are the assumptions that we made. We looked at the feasibility report and tried to get updated information through our site visits, one-on-one meetings, and phone conversations and shared our data with them, got feedback, and made adjustments along the way. Councilmember Yukimura: Do you have an example of any adolescent drug treatment center that is operating with this mix of revenue with any of your scenarios? Ms. Nakamura: Well, we did have a chance to talk to a few operators who run facilities on the mainland as well, and interestingly, their approach to having both males and females within one (1) residential structure is not uncommon. They shared with us their opportunities for private insurance to cover some of the costs. They shared with us how they finance and sustain their operations and it was very eye-opening because the amount of private insurance that you can receive on the mainland is a lot higher than what it seems like the possibilities are in the State of Hawai`i. So that is something that we also want to pursue and I think the Legislature is interested in looking at that issue, and why is it not that our current nonprofits who operate these facilities do not take advantage of private insurance to supplement state funding? COUNCIL MEETING 78 MARCH 23, 2016 Councilmember Yukimura: I think the answer was given to us by the study that said that when there is not confidence in the operations, there will not be referrals of clients, and I believe that was one of the issues that closed one of the neighbor island facilities. So my question is based on all you have learned, have you developed a business plan for this facility? I think eight (8) beds are pretty minimal in terms of economies of scale. How are you going to make it work? I would have assumed that a business plan would show that. Ms. Nakamura: Yes, and key to the business plan is the handout that you are looking at now that makes certain assumptions about revenues and expenses and what the ongoing operating costs will be, looking at potential revenue sources based on different scenarios of private insurance like Quest, Hawai`i Medical Service Association (HMSA), and potential state funding. So we have made several assumptions and shared this with some of our state legislators and we have also shared it with the Department of Health and others. We have made a lot of changes along the way and we have massaged the numbers to get it to this point where the Blue Ribbon Panel/finance committee has reviewed this, given us feedback, looked at whether the numbers are realistic, and so forth. It has been an iterative process to try to refine these numbers. This is the roadmap of what the facility itself can support. Councilmember Yukimura: This is not a roadmap. A business plan would be a roadmap, but this is not a business plan. What program model are you going to be providing? Ms. Koki: I just want to share a little bit how our center is looking like at this point. We are working with our Blue Ribbon Panel and things that the Mayor really wanted to see happen based on speaking with parents in the community whose family has gone through this. Our center is going to be like a youth center, so there is going to be the assessment center, and then that assessment center will be available for parents to bring their kids, for the officers in school to bring their kids, too, and then we are trying to pilot it after the O`ahu project. For that, there is funding in the Office of Youth Services and the alcohol and drug division through the State because they really want to make sure that these kids get assessed and get followed until the very end. The other portion would be outpatient providers in different levels like intensive outpatient or just outpatient, and then the eight (8) beds for the residential. In September of 2015, we collected information from organizations that are in the treatment field; they are experts that do treatment every day with youth and adults. Twenty-five (25) agencies here on Kaua`i responded: nine (9) of them want to move to this facility and have a contract with us and seventeen (17) said they want to be in the continuum for other referrals outside of that property. But if you think about this, the whole process was to not have the parent to go and runaround the whole island to find services for their children. If the officer in school drops off a child at the assessment center and just finds out that he has anger problems and no drug problems, then he goes to alternatives for violence classes. If they are an addict by their summary on their assessment, then they get admitted to the treatment center. We thought the Susannah Wesley Community Center on O`ahu was...while kids were waiting for their assessments, they were playing basketball with mentors from Big Brothers Big Sisters or whatever, but the true picture of the whole continuum of care we want at this property. Because of the procurement situation, again, I can COUNCIL MEETING 79 MARCH 23, 2016 say that we have been talking to people about the farm-to-table process for the kids and the agricultural component and horses because there is a ranch next door. There are some farmers that are leasing land next door and they all want in. I have a commitment board and I have their business cards and I also have other people that want to participate, including the faith-based community and others. We did have three (3) viable responses for the Request For Information (RFI). Two (2) of them said that they absolutely, positively do not want any money from the State. They are successful on the mainland and they have a lawyer and insurance people that know how to bill and get back every dollar that they spend on the child and they are actually for-profit organizations. Councilmember Yukimura: So then you do not need this Resolution if you think you can get... Ms. Koki: We cannot disclose that right now because of procurement. Right now, the CIP bill in the Legislature is moving forward and I think it is going to be heard again soon, so we do need this Resolution. Again, we do appreciate it. Councilmember Yukimura: I still do not know what program model you are using and whether it is the best practice. I would like to have a presentation of your program model. Ms. Koki: We are going to RFP out this facility and we are going to let the vendor decide what...we are going to say, "This is what we want," and they are going to say what they can deliver. Councilmember Yukimura: What do you want? Ms. Koki: We want to residential part, the outpatient, intensive outpatient, the assessment center, and built in to that component, everyone has to do aftercare for the youth. Councilmember Yukimura: It seems like because you cannot justify an adolescent drug treatment center, you are throwing everything into it now, too, like an assessment center and outpatient. How far away is this building from the town of Lihu`e? Ms. Koki: I think it is a seven (7) minute drive to the hospital, so the greater Lihu`e, probably about ten (10) to thirteen (13) minutes. Councilmember Yukimura: Is it accessible by public bus? Ms. Koki: I think you put the bus after the center is built. Councilmember Yukimura: I hope not. Ms. Koki: Because of the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) laws and juveniles, we do not want people coming on the bus to this facility, just like we do not put a bus stop at the prison. COUNCIL MEETING 80 MARCH 23, 2016 Councilmember Yukimura: That is exactly why to mix outpatient with a residential drug treatment center does not make sense, because with outpatient you want it very, very accessible and with the adolescent drug treatment center you want it protected a bit from public access. So you are doing an outpatient as well? Just like Easter Seals wanted to go to Waimea; accessibility is so important. You are putting all of these little bells and whistles and not even giving us assurance that they are all going to fit, and there is no business plan for income stream. If you say you are going with these respondents to the RFP, who are going to take care of all operating costs, then we should not have to do this. We should not have to commit to anything. Ms. Nakamura: I would like to mention that what is in front of you is an estimate of income stream in three (3) different scenarios. That is what is in front of you. Councilmember Yukimura: I know, but they are so "iffy." Ms. Nakamura: Again, this is a pro forma, so these are based on assumptions. Councilmember Yukimura: Correct, and they may have been based on assumptions as well when the two (2) adolescent drug treatment centers on the other neighbor islands closed down. Council Chair Rapozo: That is an assumption. Councilmember Yukimura: No, it is not an assumption. They closed down. Council Chair Rapozo: No, the assumption that they used this type of pro forma. We do not know, Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: Well, the assumption is that they had a hard time staying open and alive, and to spend five million dollars ($5,000,000) to build a facility and not have a business plan... Council Chair Rapozo: Do you have a question? Councilmember Chock has a question. Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, I do have a question. Council Chair Rapozo: Well, please get to it. Councilmember Yukimura: I am getting to it. To not have a business plan is really risking public money. My question is what is your business plan? Ms. Koki: In the... Councilmember Yukimura: No, I want a full-on business plan and not just one (1) sheet of figures. COUNCIL MEETING 81 MARCH 23, 2016 Ms. Koki: Again, we are going to RFP out this and they are going to give us their business plan, like they did in the RFI, which we gave you copies of. Ms. Nakamura: I think what Theresa is saying is that when we go out for the RFP, there will be many different providers, we hope, applying for it and each one may have a different approach to how they want to deliver the services. The models that we saw and heard about on the mainland are a little different from the models that operate in this state, but it is interesting how they are able to operate the facility because they are financially sustainable and they do it without a lot of outside state funding. It is possible to do, they say, under Obamacare, if they are able to prove medical necessity and they do that by using their attorneys, working with insurance companies, and so forth to make the case that they can be reimbursed for this medical need. Councilmember Yukimura: Did they build their building as well? Ms. Nakamura: Again, they are different models. For some of them, they receive subsidies. Some of them do an outright acquisition of existing properties. Some build from scratch. They are very different models out there. Councilmember Yukimura: A lot of people come from the mainland thinking that they can make it work here and they do not take into account various things. Are you convinced and will guarantee us that we will get an operator that will make this work, satisfy the needs of our kids, and if we build it you are asking us to build it based on an RFP. You do not even have an RFP; you just had an RFI. Is that correct? Ms. Nakamura: That is correct. Councilmember Yukimura: An RFP does not require any real commitment on the part of anybody. Ms. Nakamura: The RFI. Councilmember Yukimura: I am sorry. Yes, the RFI does not require any commitment. What if we build a building and you go out with RFP and there is nothing that is really satisfactory? Ms. Nakamura: That is an option that may occur, and at that point, we would need to reassess to see what the best use of that facility might be for the community. But at this point, when the Blue Ribbon Panel is unanimously saying...and these are all the operators...the people who are involved that understand the situation on the ground on this island who are saying that there is a need, they will do referrals, and they are part of the decision-making process. They are all in support of this. That is what we are going with, community feedback. Council Chair Rapozo: I have other Councilmembers that want to ask questions, too. Councilmember Chock. COUNCIL MEETING 82 MARCH 23, 2016 Councilmember Chock: Thank you. I have two questions. Under scenario of the budgets that are being presented here, do we have an indication of where these funds would be generated or come from going forward? The second question is there was discussion about suggesting a pilot program prior to starting. Have we looked further into that? Is that still an option that we are considering that may lead up to this larger plan that we have? Ms. Koki: We looked into that as various other properties that would be ready turnkey with little...we found out that in order for us to purchase a property, we would have to do an Environmental Assessment (EA) on that property and most landowners did not want to wait for us, and if we did sign a document to say they would, somebody else comes along, offers them more money than we could, then they could always change their mind and the document would not stand up in court. We also brought that forward to the Blue Ribbon Panel and they made a decision and a recommendation to the Mayor that we are not going to "pilot" our children. Councilmember Chock: (Inaudible). Ms. Nakamura: Regarding the revenue sources? Councilmember Chock: Yes. Ms. Nakamura: We looked at various revenue sources. For example if you see the first scenario there, that would be all with private pay. "PBPD" is the "Per Bed, Per Day (PBPD)" rate. The next column over is the average stay. For example, that one source like Quest or HMSA would be typical average stay that they would pay and the typical rate that they would pay. So we looked at what would private insurance pay and what is the typical going rate and the number of beds. That is how we built the spreadsheet here. If you drop down to "scenario B," you can see CAMHD...that is the highest per bed, per day rate at four hundred thirty-three dollars ($433) per day. The average in the stay is much longer than any of the private pay options. They will pay for up to...average length of stay is one hundred eighty (180) days, so you need fewer clients to fill those beds. We looked at different scenarios where the first scenario we would have zero state funding, revenue sources. The second scenario, paying for half of the beds or...excuse me...yes, half of the beds, and then the third scenario, paying for all of the beds. But if you can see, although we are showing the first year of six (6) beds, we are looking at ramping up to eight (8) beds. We tried to be conservative in our numbers that in the first year there is some startup, getting the word out and making sure the systems are in place. So we just try to be conservative for the first year, only looking at six (6) beds, but then ramping up during the second and third year to use the full eight (8) beds. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you. Can you just review a little bit or make clear what the CAMHD funding is? Ms. Koki: Sure. They get their budget through the State Legislature for operational costs and CAMHD is from the Department of COUNCIL MEETING 83 MARCH 23, 2016 Health, the branch of Child and Adolescent Mental Heath Division. Madeleine Hiraga-Nuccio, who testified earlier, is our Kaua`i office manager. Councilmember Kagawa: What is "ADAD?" Ms. Koki: "ADAD" is the "Alcohol and Drug Abuse Division" from the State Department of Health as well. Councilmember Kagawa: Do they have a Kaua`i branch, too? Ms. Koki: No, they do not. At the Department of Health here, we have only the Family Services Division. Councilmember Kagawa: Some of these numbers that you have...I appreciate the three (3) different scenarios. Did you get any of this from prior or existing operators? Ms. Koki: We currently got the HMSA one from Quest/HMSA medical and the private insurance, too. The CAMHD, we got it from them. Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. Ms. Koki: For the Alcohol and Drug Abuse Division, they gave us their numbers as well. That is it. It was hard to talk to other medical insurances that did not want to give us the information. It was hard to talk to the treatment provider because they have their billing thing, so it was hard for them to share. There is also this thing with parity now that everybody's medical insurance has to cover substance abuse. Councilmember Kagawa: For my last question, I was wondering because I heard a little bit about the two (2) facilities on the neighbor islands that have closed and I was wondering what the primary reasons were for shuting down. Was it a lack of having sufficient patients, thus not generating revenue to pay the staff? Was it a lack of funding or commitment from the State and the counties, and the counties felt that it was better to close it down and leave Honolulu as their option? Ms. Koki: There are certain reasons why it happened and I really do not feel comfortable saying it on public television, but one involved procurement. The other thing is if you are just going build your center and sit there and not market it like, for example, did you know on Kaua`i what the facilities were that our kids could actually go to? No. If you just do that and you keep getting paid...you are going to get paid anyway, whether you do your marketing...I mean you do not have to do a marketing plan for substance abusers, but you need to let people know that you exist and they did not have a very good one. Referral-wise, as a parent, if I had to choose, I would like to see the facility first. If it is a nonrestrictive facility where your kid can run away in a strange place that they do not know, it is kind of scary. These are facilities that are not...well one of them is...where you can come and go and they hold your bed for so many days. Parents do not feel that secure and that is why a lot of them make a decision with their COUNCIL MEETING 84 MARCH 23, 2016 private pay insurance to send them to the mainland where the treatment facilities are full on residential, locked-down facilities like boot camps and things like that. Councilmember Kagawa: If I had to rub my crystal ball, I would rub it and find out what the future holds, but Councilmember Kaneshiro told me to throw away the crystal ball because he said it is broken. Thank you, Chair. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kuali`i. Councilmember Kuali`i: I kind of want to get a better sense of what this Kaua`i Blue Ribbon Panel is. I know I saw one (1) testimony from the Executive Director Scott Giarman from United Way and I guess he says that he was on the Blue Ribbon Panel and another person from Hina Mauka... Ms. Koki: Yes, Alan Johnson was on our Blue Ribbon Panel. Councilmember Kuali`i: Yes, Alan Johnson. When you talk about nine (9) out of twenty-five (25) about expressing interest in being at the facility, that is because you have...it is already built into the process by having this Blue Ribbon Panel to engage and involve as many of the different community providers, if you will, as possible. So tell me a little bit more about who has been involved. Ms. Koki: The survey actually went out to our treatment community, which Arthur Brun is serving on, as well as Scott Giarman and Kim Cummings. Our Blue Ribbon Panel is a selection of twelve (12) people that were suggested by the feasibility consultants, Norma and Steve, that we have an advisory committee that would serve to further bring information to this. We have the Chief of Police, the Prosecutor, and various other people operating treatment facilities. Alan Johnson has been operating facilities for almost twenty (20) plus years and he was selected as well. The Office of Youth Services, David Hipp used to serve on our panel as well, but he recently was replaced. They are people that have experience in this. Councilmember Kuali`i: Can you give some examples of folks that expressed interest in being a part of the youth assessment center and being engaged in the part of servicing the community? Ms. Koki: Sure. So these are all people who service adolescents. You have to separate your adults from adolescents. So the ones that serve both did not want to move to the property because they cannot compromise the mixing of the two. We have people that service youth in crisis bases that want to move to the facility. We have a lot of substance abuse counselors that are interested in actually forming a group to run the assessment center, as well as others who already have their businesses. Again, I just do not want to say it out loud because of procurement, but we have asked them and they not sign a letter of commitment and it is not solid, but they are willing to meet with us after they did the survey and they told us how much square feet they need, why they wanted to move there, what are their numbers, and things like that. COUNCIL MEETING 85 MARCH 23, 2016 Councilmember Kuali`i: In one of these letters of testimony, the United Way person talks about Hina Mauka generously reserving beds for Kaua`i patients at their residential substance abuse treatment facility on Oahu. For Kauai people now who need in-house treatment that have to go to O`ahu, are there other facilities that currently reserves spots specifically for Kaua`i? Obviously, if there are spots being reserved and Kaua`i people are using, it is going to be harder to go there than to just go here if we had it here. Ms. Koki: Hina Mauka is adult treatment. I just referred to Madeleine because she does the adolescent treatment on beds, so we do not have any reserved numbers for Kaua`i kids. Councilmember Kuali`i: It is all just adults. Ms. Koki: Hina Mauka is adults, yes. Sometimes these are the contracts that keep others from having the beds. You have to fit in this criteria and treatment really is immediate, so it is very difficult. I am not sure if you know, but the hardest thing for parents is that longest plane ride of their life, twenty (20) minutes, to bring their kid to O`ahu and just leave them there, with everybody else on the plane asking, "Where are you going?" Even when you get incarcerated, everybody can see your youth with shackles in the back of the plane. That is how they go and you have to just leave them there so that already is traumatic for the family. Councilmember Kuali`i: I get it. To me, that in itself sort of says if we do not have reserve beds at other islands for our youth, then they are just not being accommodated at all, except maybe in prison, which is sad. Ms. Koki: One of the important things that is not in statistics...I know we are talking a lot of money, but just the point where if this kid does not fit in our criteria, we recently had a youth that was fourteen (14) years old that took their life because nobody could help him, which is very tragic because they just do not fit in a little box that you have to check this all off. We just need something that is a little more directly servicing our youth right away with all different treatments. Councilmember Kuali`i: Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Hooser. Councilmember Hooser: It is obviously an issue that touches everybody's family and I appreciate the work you are doing on it. Just to be clear, because the conversations are few and far between when we come to the Council, so to catch up on some of this...the County is proposing to secure the land, build a facility, contract with a provider, and pay any shortages in the budget to provide services, eight (8) beds, and some outpatient kind of thing. Is there anyone else in other counties that are doing this, securing the land, building the facility, contracting out, and agreeing to pay for shortages? Ms. Koki: They already have their facilities built. COUNCIL MEETING 86 MARCH 23, 2016 Councilmember Hooser: Their county facilities? Ms. Koki: No, I do not believe so. Councilmember Hooser: Okay, so are there any other counties that either own or built facilities and agreed to cover shortfalls of running the programs? Ms. Koki: I believe Hawai`i island's substance abuse council did when Mayor Kenoi first got involved. He was the anti-drug coordinator for that. I believe they helped some of them start up their facility. Councilmember Hooser: So the county was responsible for their budget shortfalls? Ms. Koki: Yes and they also was responsible for the Marimed treatment facility that was going to be on Hawai`i island for the boys and girls. Councilmember Hooser: So was the county responsible for the budget shortfalls? Ms. Koki: I think they were responsible for everything. Councilmember Hooser: Pardon? Could you repeat that? Ms. Koki: I think the county back then was responsible for everything for that treatment center. They offered Marimed an opportunity to come to Hawai`i island to have youth. Councilmember Hooser: But that is no longer in existence? Ms. Koki: No. Councilmember Hooser: Do you know what it costed the county to their budget? Ms. Koki: I believe the only thing that I knew of was ten million dollars ($10,000,000) for the land and the building. Councilmember Hooser: I probably should know this, but does the State of Hawaii own and operate treatment facilities or do they just facilitate the process? Ms. Koki: They give the money for the funding of operations. Councilmember Hooser: Do they cover shortfalls of the operations? Ms. Koki: I do not think they have a shortfall if they pay for twenty (20) beds that are used or not used. COUNCIL MEETING 87 MARCH 23, 2016 Councilmember Hooser: So they have a fixed fee that they pay? Ms. Koki: Yes, the contract. Councilmember Hooser: Is that from a federal program or something? Is that a pass-through? Ms. Koki: I believe it is. Madeleine would probably be the expert in that area, as she handles the money and the referrals. Councilmember Hooser: Okay. Even though the need is great, it seems that this is essentially a medical facility. We are getting into the healthcare business. My experience with the State is their going just the opposite; they are getting out of the healthcare business. They are defunding their state hospitals as much as they can because they are losing so much money. Have you asked the State to step up and agree to pay this shortfall? It seems like they would be happy that we are partners and they would pay their cost and we could facilitate the service. Ms. Koki: Well, the State...part of it is the Child and Adolescent Mental Health Division. Ms. Nakamura: That is why the CIP request went to the State Legislature. The Administration and the Council approved the five million dollar ($5,000,000) request to help us build this facility because it is a state function. It is something that will benefit all residents on this island. I think the County's role in participating and working and trying to find the site is something that Mayor Carvalho has taken a leadership role in making sure that we have the agreement with the landowner, that we set aside funding to do the environmental work, and so forth, to show that we are willing to be a partner in this endeavor and to help move something along because we did not see anything happening that would happen by itself. So without the County's leadership, I do not think we would be where we are today. Councilmember Hooser: Are there any funding sources outside of property taxes that the County...I mean we are looking at possibly one million dollars ($1,000,000) a year and we just finished this whole discussion and we are talking about raising taxes, and we have a budget that we are working on. Ms. Nakamura: That is why we have had multiple discussions with the Department of Health and with our legislators to talk about the money, especially with the House and Senate Ways & Means Committee and finance committee chairs to talk about the State's participation in the ongoing operations. So if you take a look at the three (3) scenarios we laid out, one is a full state funding, similar to Bobby Benson or Marimed on O`ahu. If they could even give us some of their empty beds and allow that money to be used here on Kauai because those beds are empty there, can we make something work? So we are trying to have those conversations and that is why we did various scenarios to see if...even over time, let us say an audit is done that Chair Rapozo referred to and shows that maybe...I think they believe there is funding there, but they need to try to figure out how to channel it to Kaua`i. COUNCIL MEETING 88 MARCH 23, 2016 Councilmember Hooser: I appreciate that effort. It is similar to the TAT and to the state hospital system; what they give, they can take away and we are stuck "holding the bag," so to speak. Are there any other funding? For example, we have the liquor sales tax. Are there any other taxes or mechanisms? Ms. Nakamura: We did talk about potential use of liquor taxes and so forth that could be diverted to prevention and treatment on each of the islands, like a medical marijuana tax or something. The feedback that we received was that they were not supporting sin taxes for this use, just because they are having problems with reduction of sin taxes and now all of the nonprofits and state agencies are going back to the Legislature to ask for more funding. You really want those funds to be reduced over time. Maybe Theresa can talk about some of the grant opportunities. Ms. Koki: In the federal government, there is a Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA), which they have funding. We have been discussing with our Washington lobbyists to look for those for us. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as earmarks anymore like we used to have, but some of those moneys have to go to the Department of Health as a pass-through agency. As Anne, our grant manager, and I have discovered, there are opportunities for new residential facilities or outpatient clinics to open and start collecting data and all of these things that they want to find out about kids. So some new moneys and we are going to be exploring all of those options, as long as the County is eligible. If it goes to the State, then we would have to apply when the State puts out their RFP. Councilmember Hooser: Okay. I guess my main concern would be a dedicated, dependable source of income. I understand grants are an important part of it and getting the money from the State, but what can we actually count on? It does not seem like there is much. Ms. Koki: There are two (2) if we lease the outpatient services building. People are paying rent elsewhere, right? If they move to this "hub," so to speak, or youth center, that is also revenue to upkeep things going and the building maintenance. Councilmember Hooser: Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else with questions? Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: In any of these models that you looked at, have they been funded by grants on an ongoing basis? Ms. Koki: Well, the money from the Department of Health is an RFP that they have to respond to. Councilmember Yukimura: It is not a grant. COUNCIL MEETING 89 MARCH 23, 2016 Ms. Koki: It is a grant from the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA) that the State applies for, and then RFPs it out to the treatment providers. Councilmember Yukimura: Let us be clear about this. At one point, you said that that was state money, but it is actually federal money, this bed money, right? It is federal money that comes through the State. Ms. Koki: No, there is also money for operations that come through the State Legislature. They get their budget. Our treatment facilities like hospitals get their budget from the State Legislature. Councilmember Yukimura: So Bobby Benson and Marimed are getting state moneys? Ms. Koki: Yes. Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: Good afternoon. Madeleine Hiraga-Nuccio with the Child and Adolescent Mental Health Division. The current funding for Bobby Benson, Marimed, and Child and Family Services, Ka Pa Ola Program, our three (3) community-based residential programs, comes from a combination of state government money, general fund, and is offset by Medicaid billings that we can then recover from the federal commission on Medicaid and Medicare. I do not know the percentage or the proportion of those, but the SAMHSA grants that Theresa was referring to are primarily for specialty projects. For example, one that is currently addressing treatment for those with developmental delays, as well as mental health diagnoses. Councilmember Yukimura: So they are not ongoing operating revenues? Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: The SAMHSA grants are not ongoing. They are typically five (5) to seven (7) year projects with start-up planning and implementation, and then those funds go away. Councilmember Yukimura: I may stand corrected, but the bed moneys are state general fund moneys, right? Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: State general fund and Medicaid reimbursement. Councilmember Yukimura: Which is a federal source. Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: Yes, which is essentially a federal source. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. The pro forma that has been provided to us and the feasibility study that was done suggested that to make this thing work, we needed to get commitments there from the Department of Health, and I think the Administration has gone to the Department of Health and the Department of Health has refrained from making any commitments. Is that correct? COUNCIL MEETING 90 MARCH 23, 2016 Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: That is correct. Councilmember Yukimura: What was the reason for it? Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: As I mentioned, there are already three (3) contractors for those, probably about fifty (50) to fifty-five (55) beds. The way finances work is that there is a certain amount of clients that you need to have in order to make a program feasible and viable. So Bobby Benson, which has about thirty (30) beds, two-thirds of those contracted to CAMHD, to the State, is able to pretty reasonably meet its costs. Marimed struggles. In fact, we have developed a guaranty program—I think Norma Doctor Sparks referred to it at one point in her testimony that we are actually subsidizing some of those programs because they cannot maintain a sufficient-level of filled beds in order to consistently make their budget. Councilmember Yukimura: I think Theresa mentioned fifty-five (55) kids on the mainland. Are those Kaua`i kids? Ms. Koki: It is statewide. Councilmember Yukimura: It is kids from Hawai`i and it sounded like they could all be put in an adolescent drug treatment center in Hawai`i and satisfy their needs, but is that true? There are a lot of assumptions here and I have a feeling that there are kids with very different diagnoses that are not going to be addressed by the adolescent drug treatment center. People who do not know better and who are laypeople are thinking, "Yes, we will put them all in the adolescent drug treatment center." Can we assume that those fifty-five (55) kids' needs will be solved by an adolescent drug treatment center? Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: Well, let me address the number first. CAMHD actually does have several clients on the mainland currently. The number is twenty-three (23). Three (3) of those are DOE mandated kids that is by way of some administrative decision. They are required to be in a treatment facility, so CAMHD is also supporting their treatment while DOE is required to make the placement. So the other twenty (20) that are placed on the mainland...I do not have a specific breakdown for you, but what those are specifically...at least from the Kaua`i experience, those placements have typically been for kids who have developmental delays or cognitive limitations who require specialty treatment settings. As you can imagine, those youth have different learning processes and in speeds of ability to change. Those mental health issues need to be addressed by folks who are doing sort of specialized treatment and who have the capacity to have enough kids in a program to make it financially feasible. Those are the types of kids that Kaua`i has sent most recently. Councilmember Yukimura: So they are not kids who we could bring home and put in an adolescent drug treatment center? Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: The three (3) or four (4) that we have had over the past six (6) or seven (7) years have not been primarily substance abusing kids. COUNCIL MEETING 91 MARCH 23, 2016 Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you. Ms. Koki: To answer that question, the other part is that we did not get a commitment because it is not legal to get a commitment. Those moneys are always issued through an RFP process. Councilmember Yukimura: If those beds are freed up, then they are available and you can say, "Those are the beds we will get through an RFP." I believe the feasibility study said that is why you needed to talk to the Department of Health to see whether beds are available or not and apparently they are not at this point. Is that correct? Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: For transfer to another location, they are not. Again, the issue is when you start separating those beds into different facilities your costs actually increases substantially: the infrastructure, the building, as well as staffing. That is one of the reasons why CAMHD has said that it is not feasible at this point to consider moving some of the beds that we currently have contracted to those three (3) providers to other locations. Council Chair Rapozo: I know Councilmember Kagawa has a question. But the State's position or CAMHD's position is that it would rather see the bed empty on O`ahu than fill them on Kaua`i? Is that the State's position that they would much rather have empty beds on O`ahu than create bed space here on Kaua`i? Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: I believe our position is that it makes financial sense to have those beds available for anyone within the state, and that if there is a Kaua`i youth who is in need of that bed, it makes more financial sense... Council Chair Rapozo: Right. That is why we have the resolution, because we want to provide that backfill of financial...if the State cannot do it or does not want to do it because money is more important. That is what this Resolution is for. You answered my question and it is kind of frustrating. Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: I had a follow-up to Councilmember Yukimura's question on the Medicaid. Does it work similar to dentists and doctors where the Medicaid severely underfunds the actual costs, like we will pay less than fifty percent (50%) of the expenses? Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: Yes. I do not have the proportion, but it does pay only part of the actual costs, certainly only part of the costs that we are paying to a provider. Councilmember Kagawa: So it is a reality, right? In any medical need, to expect full government funding without any specific funding from the county, that it is pretty unrealistic. I mean every state that services state hospitals that services a lot of Medicaid and what have you...just look...we have three (3) hospitals like Wahiawa, and I do not what the other two (2) are, that are either going to close unless they get bailed out this session. It is a reality of having to service a lot of Medicaid patients, which is the government's obligation, but yet, COUNCIL MEETING 92 MARCH 23, 2016 they do it in a way that is not fair, I guess, to providers in that you expecting to be open and have the bed space. But then, you severely underfund them, so who picks up the tab is really the question, right? Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: Are you saying that Medicaid underfunds them? Councilmember Kagawa: Yes. Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: Yes, that is true. There does need to be subsidy by the government in order to allow an agency to make a go of it. Councilmember Kagawa: I appreciate your position that you stated to Council Chair Rapozo. You are representing what the State is telling you to do, so I appreciate that. I had a question about the need on Kaua`i. I know we have Teen CARE in all of the high schools and I know there are significant numbers of children that attend Teen CARE, (inaudible) fully funded, full-time positions at the high schools. So there is a need there that you can gage. I do not know how many of them would be suited for a facility like that. Then you have the kids who do not attend school, some of it because they have drug and alcohol problems, et cetera that do not even come to school, so we do not even know at the school level how much of those are out there. So I am just wondering if you have ever done a count to see what a realistic number is. I am sure you guys get...Norma is raising her hand, so maybe she can answer that at some point, but do you have a number out there of kids right now that if we had a facility that have not chosen to go to O`ahu and take advantage of the services there because we have to fly there and have it? Do you have a number? Ms. Koki: I would like to refer to...I believe Scott passed out this handout. Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. What page is that? Ms. Koki: It is on the last page with data and those are the numbers of our Kaua`i kids. Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you. That answers my question. Ms. Koki: The beginning part, we got from Madeleine, which is where we send our kids through the family guidance center, and then we got the second part from the Juvenile Drug Court. Judge Acoba keeps saying that when they mess up, he has to send them to the detention home in Kapolei for so many days because there is no place for him to send them here for treatment. So we use the detention home a lot. We do, through judiciary, place through the Bobby Benson Center. On the bottom, I have here that we are not sure...or on the other page when I talk about data, but we are not sure if we are double-counting kids because Madeleine might pay for these drug court referrals to Bobby Benson as well. It might be their numbers. Then the Hawaii Youth Correctional Facility, that is straight from the correctional facility on our Kaua`i kids that are housed there through various referrals. The total number of placements for 2011 was thirty-one (31), 2012 was thirty-three (33), 2013 was nineteen (19), and 2014 was COUNCIL MEETING 93 MARCH 23, 2016 thirteen (13). For this fiscal year, we do not have an up-to-date count yet. The number 4 item is all our other residential treatment referrals. Now, these are people that are referred, but not necessarily followed up on the recommendation. For some reason or another, they decided not to go to residential treatment. You see private pay, Dr. McKenna—he has a lot that he refers to that needs a higher level of care than he can provide here. Hale Kipa had six (6) in 2013 and five (5) in 2014. This year, like I mentioned, there was one (1) youth who fell through the cracks. It was from their agency. Hina Mauka...Teen CARE refers to a higher level of care if they cannot handle their treatment in the schools and those are the numbers that they had for the last two (2) years. Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kuali`i. Councilmember Kuali`i: Just following up a little bit. The fifty (50) to fifty-five (55) beds that are already committed by CAMHD—so you are saying that when you say that beds are not available for transfer to another location, you are basically saying that there are fifty (50) to fifty-five (55) beds available on Oahu, but they are available to the entire State? Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: That is correct. Councilmember Kuali`i: For Kauai, Hawaii island, and Maui. So of that, where are those fifty (50) to fifty-five (55) beds? You just said twenty (20) out of thirty (30) at Bobby Benson. Where are the other thirty-five (35)? Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: I am sorry. I was actually counting thirty (30) at Bobby Benson and twenty (20) of those are contracted by CAMHD and ten (10) of them are open to other payors. 10 open to other payors. Councilmember Kuali`i: But they are still paid by CAMHD? Funded by CAMHD? Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: No. Councilmember Kuali`i: So twenty (20) of CAMHD's fifty (50) to fifty-five (55) beds, funded by CAMHD, are at Bobby Benson? Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: Yes, so then it would be twenty (20) of the forty-five (45) beds. Councilmember Kuali`i: Okay. So you only have forty-five (45) beds statewide, not fifty-five (55)? Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: Yes. Councilmember Kuali`i: Where else are the CAMHD beds? Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: Marimed. COUNCIL MEETING 94 MARCH 23, 2016 Councilmember Kuali`i: How many of those? Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: I believe there are eighteen (18) beds and six (6) beds at Ka Pa Ola from Child and Family Services. Councilmember Kuali`i: So the eighteen (18) and six (6) are the CAMHD funded beds? Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: Eighteen (18), six (6), plus twenty (20). Councilmember Kuali`i: So that is forty-four (44). Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: Yes. Councilmember Kuali`i: So forty-four (44) total statewide? Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: Funded by CAMHD. Councilmember Kuali`i: Right. Of that, can we correlate that if we see three (3) in fiscal year 2014 from Kaua`i that Kaua`i got three (3) of those twenty (20) beds or it could have been from the other ten (10)? Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: Could have been from any of those three (3) contracts. Councilmember Kuali`i: So how does the State service the outer islands? Do they not allocate some of those beds for the outer islands? We all pay state taxes and it services our constituents, who are the taxpayers, so if we only have forty-five (45) beds and they are only available on O`ahu to service the whole State, but none of them are actually held for Kaua`i people to come, are we saying that they are not coming? So it may not be meeting them where they need to be met so they cannot come, but there is no even guarantee that bed is for them or is there? Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: It is not guaranteed for a person from a specific county or island. What it is guaranteed for is someone who is eligible for CAMHD services that have the need, which is by assessment or evaluation, and... Councilmember Kuali`i: Is it sort of based on need and "first come, first serve?" Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: Yes. Councilmember Kuali`i: And no allocation to counties? Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: Correct, no allocation. Councilmember Kuali`i: Okay. Council Chair Rapozo: That would explain... COUNCIL MEETING 95 MARCH 23, 2016 Councilmember Kuali`i: Is there a way to know how many Kaua`i people are being served by CAMHD? Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: Yes, that is the number. Ms. Nakamura: It is on the last page of this handout. Councilmember Kuali`i: So those numbers like three (3) in fiscal year 2014, that would be three (3) CAMHD at Bobby Benson? Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: Correct. Councilmember Kuali`i: So that would be three (3) out of the twenty (20), out of the thirty (30)? Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: From Kaua`i. Councilmember Kuali`i: Three (3) from Kaua`i? Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: Yes. Councilmember Kuali`i: Okay. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: So any child that is qualified or eligible under CAMHD from Kaua`i will not be turned away? There will be space for them. Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: Yes. The only thing that would slow that process down, not stop it, but slow it down is if there are so many people already occupying those beds. Councilmember Yukimura: If the beds are full? Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: Yes. Councilmember Yukimura: How often is that situation? Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: I would say that we have had to wait three (3) or four (4) weeks for a placement at Bobby Benson over the past six (6) months once. We have not had to wait for any placement at either Ka Pa Ola or Marimed. Councilmember Yukimura: The implication has been made that the placement at Kapolei Detention Center was made because there was no other option. But if those four (4) under 2011 from Kaua`i had been qualified for CAMHD, they would have been admitted to Bobby Benson. Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: Yes, I think I can explain that. When there is a youth in drug court, the judge frequently uses short-term sanctions in order to encourage treatment change. When the placement is made at Kapolei, as I COUNCIL MEETING 96 MARCH 23, 2016 understand it is usually for a short period of time from two (2) to fourteen (14) days, and then the youth is returned to Kaua`i to continue treatment here. I am not positive that those are the same numbers or the same kids that Theresa was counting, but that is a typical process. Councilmember Yukimura: It is saying right here that thirty-one (31) people could benefit from an on-island treatment and healing center, presumably the residential drug treatment, but are those valid assumptions? Maybe Ms. Sparks might be able to enlighten us. Ms. Sparks: For the record, Norma Doctor Sparks from Families First Hawai`i Services, Inc. I think in terms of what we are talking about, I just want to make sure that we all understand that a residential treatment facility is really for very, very few children who actually are not just experimenting or not just being caught with a beer bottle or whatever and being referred through Family Court. These are kids that have to have an assessment and to be paid through CAMHD—I understand that they would have to have a dual diagnosis, not just substance abuse. Is that correct? Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: Yes. Ms. Sparks: By definition, I believe, in the continuum of care for substance abuse, both within the judiciary as well as the executive side, we are talking about very few kids. Now in terms of Marimed, for example, and I do not think it has changed any, Marimed...I did talk to the Department of Health contract's person/officer because I was concerned that when we looked at their numbers for the last three (3) years when we did the study in 2013, we noticed that seventy-five percent (75%) of Marimed's beds were not being used. Yet, the same amount of dollars are being encumbered for them. So there was always a number of millions that were being held and I had asked the Department of Health...not CAMHD...but Department of Health Purchasing that when you go out to do a new RFP, which they are required to do after a certain year, why are you continuing to give them this automatic number of beds? In our study, we recommended that that is one thing that the counties should do, is to clarify and ensure that when it goes out for an RFP, that it does not become an automatic contract to the three (3) by default. I thought that, in fact, the County of Kauai, if there were a proven high need for these kids that perhaps the County could then go in and actually apply for one of those beds. I felt that the purchasing officer that we spoke to at that time was reluctant to do that. Those are my concerns about the beds, and as a former social worker both at Family Court, where I also was an administrator for the First Circuit, we had to find the best program for kids. Unfortunately, because...and this is nationally...depending when the kid needs services, if a bed is not available, then we had to put the child in a different time or a different level of service, just because we felt any service was necessary. I have a concern about a plan to include the whole continuum of care for substance abuse in one (1) facility. I do not believe that is going to be possible unless they are going to be totally separated. These kids that have these high-level of substance abuse needs need to have a certain amount of distance between them and the rest of the world for a period of time. I agree that aftercare services, when they leave, could be begun and should begin that first day they go into service or treatment; aftercare services should begin at that point. At that point, that is when the families come in and out. I do have a concern about COUNCIL MEETING 97 MARCH 23, 2016 that combination in order to finance this adolescent treatment facility. I think there are different ways that it is possible, but I think it will take a little bit longer. For example, in California, we were able to change some of the Title IV-E, which are foster care dollars, into not paying residential, but actually providing outpatient services. So in that way, we got a waiver from the federal government. I am not sure if the County has actually looked at claiming federal dollars as a match. In California, Santa Clara County, Sacramento County, and Los Angeles County, where I worked at all three (3), they were able, as a county, to get their own match if they were able to find the match from the county level. There are these different ways to try to figure out how to fund these services, but the model and the program needs to be very effective. If I may, I would like to talk a little bit about the programs that were closed in other counties. I specifically spoke to the directors at that time, and for those programs they all had the same concerns that we have on Kaua`i, and that is that we wanted to have our children stay with their families to receive services. Substance abuse services, whether it is adult or youth, require a system support and that system of support comes first from the families. So the idea that they would need to be on the island is what they were looking for. Maui is a much bigger island and theoretically has a bigger pool in youth that might need the services. Hawai`i island had a bigger pool. Both of them could not sustain because they did not receive referrals from the social workers and the medical professionals. They did not get the referrals. I believe, just as in Marimed, I have question about whether or not Marimed services are effective. I have heard social workers here on Kaua`i say in a meeting that they are not going to refer to Marimed because it is not an effective model to really treat substance abuse. That is probably one of the reasons why the other two (2) counties could not sustain, which is because they were not receiving dollars. They can only get money from CAMHD and we can only from the State get moneys from the feds on a reimbursement. From the feds at least, we have to show that we actually expended those dollars and that is how they were referred. They are not going to give us a block grant for a lot of the adolescent programs; at least that is my understanding. I think for us here, it behooves to us make sure that the program that we establish will be the most effective possible on Kaua`i or it will not be sustainable. Councilmember Yukimur: So what kind of capacity and expertise does the County need in order to be able to competently administer an RFP for design and construction? Ms. Sparks: Who are you directing that question to? Councilmember Yukimura: You. Ms. Sparks: What I have done personally in the past is that I have used a combination of county staff or state staff with community agencies who are experts or who are doing that work as well. This County, I do not think, has the capacity or the number of staff who can actually monitor and evaluate whether a program is effective or not. I think that to be more certain that, in fact, the service model is being effective, you would have to require additional support for the County staff to really identify that. Within the County, we have people from CAMHD, for example, who can help that. But within the County itself, I do not know if there is anyone with the professional background in terms of trying to evaluate. COUNCIL MEETING 98 MARCH 23, 2016 Councilmember Yukimura: You could do it if you needed to, right? You have a social work background, law degree, and I gather incredible experience in overseeing programs like this. Ms. Sparks: Yes, I think I am. I have actually been certified as an expert by the judiciary here in Hawai`i for (inaudible)... Council Chair Rapozo: I want to get to the resolution here. We are not planning RFPs. We are really taking this deeper than I think we should. Councilmember Yukimura: But this is going to be the process that has to happen in order to have an effective and successful adolescent drug treatment center. Council Chair Rapozo: At the end of the day, the Council is going determine whether or not this moves. Right now, this Resolution is to show the State that there is a commitment by this Council to fund whatever program is going to be, whatever program the RFP determines. I would assume that the County is going to...like we do for the RFPs for Solid Waste and all of the different projects, do we not hire a consultant for that? Ms. Nakamura: That is what I was going to add, Council Chair. Like the Solid Waste RFP, we brought in experts in the field to assist the County's Department of Public Works' staff. We would similarly look at the kind of expertise to help us. Council Chair Rapozo: Right. That is way down the road. Right now, we are trying to show the State because we want to try to get a chance at some state funding, because I believe it is the State's responsibility to build this building, and maybe they disagree. Anyway, this Resolution is to show the State that, "Hey, we want you build it, we want you to help fund it, and this is our commitment," that should, in fact, there are shortfalls, whether the State does not want to give money or whatever, we will be here to assure the success of the program. That is what this Resolution is about. I have to go to other Councilmembers, Councilmember Yukimura, because poor Councilmember Kaneshiro has been waiting for twenty-five (25) minutes. I want to go around the table. We have to close this up soon, otherwise we are going to be here all night. It is a relatively simple resolution of whether you support this or not. Councilmember Kaneshiro. Councilmember Kaneshiro: Thank you. I probably do not have a question... Council Chair Rapozo: You probably forgot it already. Councilmember Kaneshiro: We are kind of going down the road and I was thinking, "Well, maybe I should ask questions as we are going down that road," but because you brought it back I am going to hold off on my question. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kuali`i. COUNCIL MEETING 99 MARCH 23, 2016 Councilmember Kuali`i: I was just going to the state, and you were talking about, Norma, the Maui and Hawai`i island model. There was something about their models that you analyzed and determined to be ineffective. So obviously, we do not want to necessarily follow their models, but we cannot be pessimistic and talk down a model by the County of Kaua`i when we do not even know what that model is yet. A lot of what is being said, the criticism to me, sounds a little bit like we are doomed or it cannot be done, but let us give it a try. This started with Mayor Baptiste over ten (10) years ago and it is so sad that we cannot move forward in some small way to get something done. We do not know what the model really is. What was told to us was that the RFP and the experts that come in that propose to run the program...there will be competing models. So hopefully we have the information at least of how to select the best model and how not to pick the model that you already fund to be ineffective. Maybe we can continue to have your support in evaluating. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: So what is the recidivism rate in these facilities? Madeleine, I think at one point you said that the Department of Health does not consider them to be best practice and that there are ways to address those in that continuum, leading up to the need for the most intense treatment, being able to catch the kids before they get to that need. So what is the recidivism rate? Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: I do not have an answer for the recidivism rate. I know that what you mentioned about best practice...the state of the science and of the art have moved away from group care, especially for those youth who have significant conduct disorders; however, there are certain clients who being in a contained setting like a community-based residential facility is the best option for that youth. The numbers are not large, as we have talked about here. There are other best practices for kids who are at different spots in the continuum of treatment and those are primarily with them in the community in their family home and receiving family-focused treatment. Councilmember Yukimura: Is there adequate services for those treatments on Kaua`i? Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: Not for us currently through CAMHD. We actually have two (2) contracts: one for multi-systematic therapy and one for functional family therapy. Both of those have regular waitlists and those are contracts as well. The contractor struggles to keep staff, the therapists, available. Councilmember Yukimura: So if we spent that one million two hundred thousand dollars ($1,200,000) on the lesser...just below the intense treatment, could we not prevent a lot more kids than eight (8) a year from even needing the most intense treatment? Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: That would be, at this point, speculation. However, the direction of treatment is going to earlier and earlier provision of education like Hina Mauka...early treatment, early intervention, and intensive intervention. COUNCIL MEETING 100 MARCH 23, 2016 Councilmember Yukimura: Because the resolution talks about enhanced access to mental health and substance abuse services for youth, especially during the early stages when our young people experience contact with the juvenile system. But an adolescent drug treatment center is not going to be addressing this. Is that correct? That is not the services of an adolescent drug treatment center. Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: Right, the residential treatment part is usually for those youth who are move deeply engaged in the practice. Councilmember Yukimura: So Ms. Sparks, do you know the recidivism rate? Ms. Sparks: I thought that we looked at it nationally, but I think that relapses in a chronic disease such as substance abuse is expected, and particularly with adolescents, who often leave treatment earlier, and then they come back. I am not sure if we are talking about the same thing, but when I hear "recidivism," I look at relapses. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. I am just thinking, because of the limited resources and we all want effective adolescent drug treatment, where we would use the money that would help the most kids, I guess. That is what I am asking. Do we put it into an adolescent drug treatment center for eight (8) kids, eight (8) beds, or do we put it into an adolescent treatment center for eight kids, eight beds or do it lower down the line...or what do you call that? The upstream. And not only reach more kids, but keep kids from needing the intense treatment. Council Chair Rapozo: Do you close down the emergency room of a hospital so that you can use that money to create more doctors' offices? It is a different need. Councilmember Yukimura: No, not exactly. Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, it is. We need to move this along because it has been hours. Councilmember Yukimura: I have one more question. Those who qualify for CAMHD and qualify for a seat in Bobby Benson, do you pay for the parents and family to see their kids? Ms. Hiraga-Nuccio: Yes, part of the treatment requirement is for weekly family therapy. When that involves someone who is in a facility not on Kaua`i, then we do that both by video conference, phone conference, and regular trips for at least a couple of the family members to the facility per month. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Any other questions? If not, thank you. Further discussion? Councilmember Kagawa. There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows: COUNCIL MEETING 101 MARCH 23, 2016 Councilmember Kagawa: First of all, I would like to thank in particular Kalia, Kim, and Arthur. I think it is very brave and honorable of them to share their stories and to plea with us to do something. They did not say exactly what we should do. I think they all want us to build whatever we build in the most efficient and effective manner. But they want us to do something because they went through it. I teach at Kapa'a High School, and I was at Chiefess Kamakahelei Middle School as well, for the past sixteen (16) years, and for those who say, "Well, I think the need is not there. It is too small," then I think you are living in a different bubble than I do because the need is huge and it is out there. It is a problem and we have an opportunity to do something. What we are going to do can vary. We can go half inpatient, half residential. I think there are ways to play with it, but we talk about recidivism and what is the recidivism rate if we do not do anything? If we do something for Kaua`i, what you have is you will have more participation—I guarantee it; there is no doubt. If it is open and people send them there and it does not work, then okay, but I think the "proof will be in the pudding." If they end up sending their kids and by word of mouth, "Hey, this worked for my kid. Do you know how messed up he was? Look at him today." I have seen kids go to Hawai`i island's Acadia in the past and they got their education credits and graduated. These are kids who were messed up and they came back and it is a total night and day change. Sometimes, it takes growing up and everything, but it is just being away from going back into recidivism because once you try it again, you will go back. The need is there. It is all over. It is not only on the east side; it is all over. The need is there and a lot of times the problems are at home. The parents cannot help themselves either, but I think they would be ones to send them there, because no matter what, every parent wants their kid to succeed. We just need to have something. I do not know how much intensive treatment beds we need, but I know we need some. The numbers show it. The courts are going to send some already. Instead of sending them to Honolulu, they will send them here. It will be so much easier. How much more efficient is that? How much more effective? Then you will have others that will go through the assessments and we can instead send them here. The State is just doing what they have to do now. They do not want to commit funds to something new and they are struggling with their funds as it is. I understand Madeleine's point of view because she is not sure what we are going to do either. She does not want us to do something that would be inefficient and we will point to her and say, "Wow, why did you tell us to do it?" So I do not want to tell her what to do or say. I think it is upon this Council, if we see a problem in the community and can we help this issue? If we do not do it, what are the options? Do we stick with Honolulu? Do we stick to a lot of kids falling out and not going to get the help that they need, and then we are going to have to deal with them as criminals? I remember this jewelry store owner across here who said the same kid robbed his place like four (4) times, and four (4) times the same kid got caught, had a high profiled and has been in the front page numerous times, and the courts kept letting him out because he was a juvenile. I knew the kid. He was a good kid with a good heart and would always tell me "hi," but it is the drugs. Because he needs the money to buy the drugs, he is going to rob places over and over again. We did not have the help for him and never gave him a chance. I think we have an opportunity here, Chair and Members. It is not a guarantee, but I think we owe it to the community to do something and there is a need for the intensive beds and the COUNCIL MEETING 102 MARCH 23, 2016 proof is in these numbers. There are some guarantee beds. Do we go with eight (8)? Probably not. What is that number that we are going with? Thank you, Chair. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Hooser. Councilmember Hooser: Yes, clearly there is a need. As the speaker talked earlier, all of our families and friends have been impacted by this. There is clearly a need. Should the County be in the business of healthcare? I do not think so. It is not our job. It is not your responsibility, if you would. We have no expertise in this area. We have plenty of other needs, but we get involved in other things also that are not our kuleana. They are hotly debated around this table. So I do not think it is something that we should be involved in, but I am supporting the resolution. There is no question if the State is going to give us five million dollars ($5,000,000) and the property owner is going to make available property and we can build a facility with no cost to the County for five million dollars ($5,000,000). Certainly, I can vote yes on a nonbinding resolution that will not even involve a budget that we are involved with for three (3) years, but it would be an entirely different Council. It holds no legal weight. It is just a nice statement to show the Legislature so that they do not have a political out for not getting the money. So it is easy to vote yes. Kudos to the Administration, quite frankly, even though I am not happy with the plan. I am not happy with the County saying that we want to be in the healthcare business, but I admire the persistence and diligence, and we are going to take this "all the way" kind of attitude. I appreciate that. Personally, I think that, number one, it is a longshot to get five million dollars ($5,000,000) from the State. If we were successful in doing that and building a building, then maybe we would be successful in finding a provider to do it without the subsidy. If not, we will have a building and motivated people to find a better use for that building and possibly do other youth oriented programs. I personally think spending one million dollars ($1,000,000) on youth programs would get much more "bang for our buck" than for treatment. I think if you spend one million dollars ($1,000,000) a year on sports, computers, theater, and other kinds of afterschool programs then you would have a much broader impact on the overall criminal/crime/drug issue, period, and I think we should pursue that in tandem with this. I am voting in support of it and I will keep my fingers crossed to see if the money comes through. As the money comes through, I will continue hoping, praying, and working to support the Administration to get providers to do it for free. If that does not happen if I am still on the Council...this is years from now...then I will do my best to support putting that property and that facility to good use on behalf of the young people of our community. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else? Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: Earlier today around this table, it was said that we have a shrinking budget. "People say no more taxes. Is the County in a position to pay over the years? What about the next year and the next year? How does the County plan to sustain itself over the years?" Now we are just giving a blank check to something that there is no plan for. It is not that I am against adolescent drug treatment. I believe in it, but the question is what is the best way to address the problem? We are not even asking that question and that is the way to create waste. I mean build a building and then not be able to use it, one that is not even in the town, but is way out and build it, not for its purpose. If you build it COUNCIL MEETING 103 MARCH 23, 2016 and then it closes down, what a waste of five million dollars ($5,000,000). Then try to retrofit it, but that is not the way to use good taxpayers' money. That is not going to help our kids if it closes down. We have to make sure that we are actually going to provide a program that is ongoing, can be sustained, and really does address our needs in the best way possible. I agree with Councilmember Hooser. Let us get the kids before they fall off the cliff. That would save many more lives. Even for the kids who go to adolescent drug treatment, and they can get it on Oahu and they can get family support, and sometimes it is good for them to go away, as Council Vice Chair said. They go away and realize what we have here and they really wake up and come back. Sometimes it is not bad to go away. But when they come back, why do they fail? They fail because we do not have that continuum of care that supports them when they come back. Look at the first recommendation in the feasibility study: "The County of Kaua`i should help to facilitate the integration and coordination of all services for Kaua`i adolescents. A continuum of care established by integrated and coordinated services must be established before an adolescent substance abuse treatment facility can be effective." Then, "The County of Kaua`i should negotiate with the Child and Adolescent Mental Health Division of the State of Hawai`i Department of Health for therapeutic..." This is the second recommendation—"...for therapeutic bed slots for the facility. If bed slots are not available, building, purchasing, or leasing and an adolescent substance abuse treatment facility will be cost-prohibitive and not feasible." We do not even listen to our consultants, feasibility studies, and the experts that we hire. I guess we are going to hire consultants to be ongoing, the ones who monitor this program when it comes up. We could use these moneys for this amazing Positive Outreach Intervention (POI) program that is in the Police Department on Maui that is reaching so many kids and families and keeping them from drugs. There is a lesser risk way of trying to get residential adolescent drug treatment and that was suggested in the feasibility study, too. A pilot project in an existing building and the excuses about not doing it just do not hold water—"We do not want to pilot our kids." This is a way to lessen our risk to see how it could work to give residential adolescent drug treatment on Kauai on a smaller scale, see how it works, learn from it, and then expand as we learn from it. So why are we not doing that? We can figure out how to do an EA if we have the will to do it. Let us figure out how to do it on a small pilot scale, and then go from there. It is "aim, shoot, fire" or whatever it is, because it is not the right way to do projects and it is the way we create waste. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kuali`i. Councilmember Kuali`i: How do you follow that? I heard her say "POI." Maybe you will pursue that anyway because I do not think it will take five million dollars ($5,000,000). All the programs we can pursue to help our adolescents are important, big and small. I just want to say that I appreciate everybody coming forward today and all the information that you shared with us. I think we learned a lot from the experts, but I think we also can say that we felt a lot and connected with the testimony from the regular citizens and those who are still facing addiction themselves. Our adolescents need our help. That is the bottom line. I think one of the testifiers talked about a healing and supportive environment where they can be close to their families. Substance abuse is a family disease. There is so much potential here and so much effort has been put into it. Gosh, I said earlier that this started ten (10) years ago with Mayor Baptiste in Hanapepe. COUNCIL MEETING 104 MARCH 23, 2016 It is very sad that we are still at this point where we have not broken ground or done anything. Clearly, like Councilmember Hooser said, if the CIP money, the five million dollars ($5,000,000), comes from the State for the building, and if the land is donated by Grove Farm, then what are we waiting for? Why are we criticizing a plan or a model when we do not even know what it is yet? Why are we so pessimistic to not trust that the experts, the community, Theresa, Nadine, and all the people involved is not going to bring the best people together to come up with the best plan and model? Why are we shooting it down before it even has a chance? I can support this easily. That is why I am stepping forward on this. Look at who we have heard from in our community. We have heard from the Executive Director of United Way, we have heard from the CEO of Hina Mauka. These are all potential partners, people that are doing the work in the community already. It is long overdue. We have to move forward. I think somebody said, "Even if we save one (1) life, it is worth it." This is not a dollar issue. They are just giving us the reality. Let us be positive. Let us go after the partners. Let us go after the different potential funding sources. I am hopeful in that sense. I come from the nonprofit world and I come from the community. The problem is very real. The chances we have in front of us to move forward and do something meaningful is there, so why would we not do it? This is an easy one. I would appreciate all of your support. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Hooser. Councilmember Hooser: Just real briefly, I wanted to reiterate that this has no budget implications whatsoever. It is a nonbinding statement. I would have preferred language a little bit different, but I do not think it is necessary to amend it, but it is nonbinding and commits no money at all. The phrases address operating funds and a facility that will not be built realistically or operating for at least four (4) years. I will not be here. Half of the Council will not be here. So it will be up to a new Council to hear the plan at that time and decide at that time whether or not they want to fund any ongoing costs of the project at all. But that will not happen for a budget at least four (4) years away, in my opinion. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura moved to amend Resolution No. 2016-36 as circulated, and as shown in the Floor Amendment, which is attached hereto as Attachment 1, seconded by Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Yukimura: This amendment corrects the error or the underestimation of the cost of operating. Instead of the range of two hundred thousand dollars ($200,000) to eight hundred thousand dollars ($800,000), it says "approximately $1.2 million." Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. The amendment has been moved and seconded. Roll call on the amendment. Councilmember Kuali`i: I have discussion. Council Chair Rapozo: Go ahead. COUNCIL MEETING 105 MARCH 23, 2016 Councilmember Kuali`i: First and foremost, I would say that if you read the numbers here, it is not an error. They are talking about the subsidy; what it would take. So it says "will require operating subsidies of between $267,000 to $865,000." If you look, there are six (6) set of numbers here. The highest number is $865,000 and the lowest number is $267,000. That is the subsidy they are talking about. It does not say what the full expense will be. They say the full expense is one million three hundred thousand dollars ($1,300,000) at the high-end. There is "Year 1," "Year 2," and "Year 3." It is not an error. It just does not say what you want it to say. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: I am basing it on the feasibility study and on Ms. Sparks' testimony today. Council Chair Rapozo: Well, the Administration came up with what...this is current. This pro forma is from the hours, hours, hours, and hours that Theresa Koki, Nadine Nakamura, Mayor Carvalho, and all of your team spent with the Legislature and individual entities, and this is the most recent number. If you do not want to believe that then that is fine. Councilmember Yukimura: It is one million two hundred thousand dollars ($1,200,000). Council Chair Rapozo: I am not going to argue. I am not going to support the amendment. We need to move. Councilmember Kaneshiro. Councilmember Kaneshiro: For me, I just want to clarify that the total expense is one million two hundred thousand dollars ($1,200,000), but that is not including any of the revenue that would be coming in based on insurance and stuff like that so that is why the number is smaller and that is why they are saying that is the amount that needs to be covered. Council Chair Rapozo: It is here. Councilmember Yukimura: If the revenues do not come in, that is what we would have to pay to keep it operating. Councilmember Kuali`i: That is not what the resolution says. It says "a 24-hour / 7-day a week ATHC will require operating subsidies of between $267,000 to $865,000." According to all of their work, that is correct. It is not an error. Councilmember Yukimura: So it shows expenses. Councilmember Kuali`i: Where does it say expenses in the resolution? Councilmember Yukimura: Well, you will have to subsidize it in total if you cannot get revenues to support it. COUNCIL MEETING 106 MARCH 23, 2016 Council Chair Rapozo: You are going to subsidize zero (0) if you get all the revenue. We could sit here and say "if, if, if," all day long. This is the resolution as it is. I am getting frustrated because we have been here...we need a caption break. Ten (10) minutes. There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 3:40 p.m. The meeting reconvened at 3:49 p.m., and proceeded as follows: Council Chair Rapozo: The meeting is called back to order. We are on the amendment. Any more comments on the amendment? If not, let us do a roll call on the amendment. The motion to amend Resolution No. 2016-36 as circulated, and as shown in the Floor Amendment, which is attached hereto as Attachment 1 was then put, and failed by the following vote: FOR AMENDMENT: Yukimura TOTAL — 1, AGAINST AMENDMENT: Chock, Hooser, Kagawa, Kaneshiro, Kuali`i, Rapozo TOTAL — 6, EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0, RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0. Council Chair Rapozo: We are back to the resolution. Everyone has already spoken. Councilmember Chock. Councilmember Chock: I will be real brief. This past weekend I went to the Kilauea Agricultural Park blessing and it was really nice to see. I remember that this came up for us some time ago, in terms of waiting for it for thirty (30) years. Anyway to get to the point, it is something that we held back for many different reasons and it would have not gotten this far as it has in the short amount of time if we just did not get out of the way. I just have a lot of reservations and questions about the direction of this adolescent treatment and healing center, but I also have chosen to get out of the way of it because if there is a will of the people, then they can get the work done, which is still a question to me in my mind. There seems to be a lot more work that needs to be done. Why not allow it to go as far as it can? I want to support that because I do see a need and I do see our children suffering and I want to support the needs of the community. I actually had my own amendment based on some of the concerns when I read this. My concern was that it made a very strong statement about what we are committing to. My amendment was really about trying to tone that down to see if rather than "we will provide and seek available funding," but I understand the intent for this. I was not real clear, but after the introducer talked about how this is supporting the request for the Legislature to move forward and that we need a strong commitment from the Council. From a resolution standpoint, I am willing to support it to move forward. The other thing that came up to my mind is the long discussions that we have about priorities around this table. I looked back at our goalsetting discussion and it just did not come up. What I got was financial sustainability, solid waste solution, government efficiency, and economic development. Mostly, I wanted to have the discussion because I think that these are the things that we need to continue to focus on moving forward, especially as we move into the budget hearings because COUNCIL MEETING 107 MARCH 23, 2016 we will have to make hard decisions moving forward. If this is one of them in the end, I hope that we do have more in-depth discussions and I hope that we hear more about the details of the plan moving forward so that I can feel comfortable that we have a successful outcome out of this. I will be supporting this. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: I support adolescent drug treatment. For me, it is how to do it in a smart way. It has been said that even if we save one (1) life, it is worth it. What if we could save more lives doing it in a smarter way? Arthur Brun's really poignant concern about kids not having someone to talk to— well, this adolescent drug treatment center is not going to reach a lot of kids who need someone to talk to. We are not talking about not addressing the need; we are talking about how to do it in the best way and how to do it in a sustained way. If the adolescent drug treatment center opens and then closes like it did on Hawai`i island, and I think it is because the County could not sustain the funding, then our kids will have nothing. Council Chair Rapozo: Any other comments before I close? I am going to try to be polite and not offensive, but I am terribly frustrated today. All I have heard as I was yelling on my way out on the break, all I heard today from all of the experts or all of the people that is supposed to know is how we cannot do this or how we cannot make this work. That is disgusting to me. It really is. Something came up in my head, "The only wall you need to conquer is the one you built in your head." That is what we have done. We have created this wall that says, "You cannot do it on Kaua`i. There is no need." I think Councilmember Kagawa talked about the bubble, that you folks are living in a different bubble. Whoever is saying that there is no need—maybe there is no need that meets the CAMHD standard... maybe the State has set that standard, dual diagnosis or whatever it is. I do not care. When a kid, grandma, aunty, or mother calls me up and says, "My kid needs help and we try to call and there is a waiting list." Sometimes it is two (2) weeks, three (3) weeks, or four (4) weeks. That is unacceptable. If this was a money bill today to put money—again, I am going all over the place because I cannot understand how some of the discussions went today. Earlier before lunch, we had Councilmembers support seven hundred thousand dollars ($700,000) for raises. To compare that to the need for a facility on Kaua`i for our kids is totally ridiculous. There is a need on this island. If you do not believe it, go take a drive down to Hanamd'ulu Beach, Kealia Beach, or Kalapaki by the seawall. Look at the kids that are messed up today. They are messed up because they are young and now you have the medical marijuana, Colorado, and they are all making it legal. Now it is like it is not even a problem anymore. It is legal in some states. Read the Chiefs testimony that he submitted today on the effects that it is having on our kids that are going to need this kind of facility and this type of treatment. Why do we have to set the standards so high for them to come into this facility? What if we had a facility that if a child needed help and wanted to get off of this rubbish, why do we have to run them through the ringer to get accepted to get help? That is where I am struggling. This is really meant to the State. The State has made it so difficult to access funding that these kids get into trouble. Now the Mayor has come to us, through his team, and I cannot say enough of...I have seen Theresa and Nadine work live in color at the Capitol a couple of weeks ago. You folks have worked extremely hard on this. I was there from the beginning with former Mayor COUNCIL MEETING 108 MARCH 23, 2016 Baptiste. Unfortunately, he did not live to see this dream and that is sad. If this was a money bill today to fund a drug treatment center, I would support it. I would find one million two hundred thousand dollars ($1,200,000) or eight hundred thousand dollars ($800,000) somewhere else to cut to find this. That is how much I believe we need this thing. Is it the State's responsibility? Yes, Councilmember Hooser is exactly correct. When the State dropped the ball, as they have done so many times in so many different areas, we have to pick it up. These are our kids. This is not a bridge. This is not a road. This is not a bike lane or a crosswalk that we can negotiate and see if we need it now. No, these are our kids that are dying. These are our kids that are throwing their lives away. Maybe they are another statistic. Maybe they did not hit your home. It has and I have seen enough. I am sick and tired of thinking, "Why have we not even addressed this yet." We have tried. Now the planets are lining up. You have the land and there is a chance to get some money for the building. Councilmember Kuali`i said it best: "How can you criticize a program when we do not even know what it is?" I have to say that we have talked about the GET, twenty-five million dollars ($25,000,000) a year; twenty-five percent (25%) goes to transportation, six million two hundred thousand dollars ($6,200,000) and there is no plan, no feasibility study, or any of that. But we will say "yes," give them the money, and send the money there. This is for our kids. We have to provide a safe environment with treatment for our kids and we continue to question and question. Every single reason why we could not do it was brought up today. I want to throw up. Roll call. The motion for adoption of Resolution No. 2016-36 was then put, and carried by the following vote: FOR ADOPTION: Chock, Hooser, Kagawa, Kaneshiro, Kuali`i, Rapozo TOTAL — 6, AGAINST ADOPTION: Yukimura TOTAL — 1, EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0, RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0. Council Chair Rapozo: Next item, please. Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next item is a bill for first reading. BILLS FOR FIRST READING: Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2623) — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING CHAPTER 15A OF THE KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO THE KAUAI COUNTY FIRE CODE: Councilmember Kuali`i moved for passage of Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2623) on first reading, that it be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be scheduled for April 20, 2016, and referred to the Public Safety, seconded by Councilmember Kaneshiro, and carried the following vote: FOR PASSAGE: Chock, Hooser, Kagawa, Kaneshiro, Kuali`i, Yukimura, Rapozo TOTAL — 7, AGAINST PASSAGE: None TOTAL — 0, EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0. RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0. COUNCIL MEETING 109 MARCH 23, 2016 Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2624) — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE APPROVING A COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT FOR BARGAINING UNIT 14 BETWEEN JULY 1, 2015 AND JUNE 30, 2017: Councilmember Kuali`i moved for passage of Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2624) on first reading, that it be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be scheduled for April 20, 2016, and referred to the Committee of the Whole, seconded by Councilmember Kaneshiro, and carried the following vote: FOR PASSAGE: Chock, Hooser, Kagawa, Kaneshiro, Kuali`i, Yukimura, Rapozo TOTAL — 7, AGAINST PASSAGE: None TOTAL — 0, EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0. RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0. Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2625) — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE RELATING TO THE OPERATING BUDGET AND FINANCING THEREOF FOR THE FISCAL YEAR JULY 1, 2016 TO JUNE 30, 2017 (Fiscal Year 2016-2017 Operating Budget): Councilmember Kuali`i moved for passage of Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2625) on first reading, that it be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be scheduled for May 11, 2016 at 5:00 p.m., and referred to the Budget & Finance Committee, seconded by Councilmember Kaneshiro, and carried the following vote: FOR PASSAGE: Chock, Hooser, Kagawa, Kaneshiro, Kuali`i, Yukimura, Rapozo TOTAL — 7, AGAINST PASSAGE: None TOTAL — 0, EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0. RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0. Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2626) — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE RELATING TO CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS AND FINANCING THEREOF FOR THE FISCAL YEAR JULY 1, 2016 TO JUNE 30, 2017 (Fiscal Year 2016-2017 CIP Budget): Councilmember Kuali`i moved for passage of Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2626) on first reading, that it be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be scheduled for May 11, 2016 at 5:00 p.m., and referred to the Budget & Finance Committee, seconded by Councilmember Kaneshiro, and carried the following vote: FOR PASSAGE: Chock, Hooser, Kagawa, Kaneshiro, Kuali`i, Yukimura, Rapozo TOTAL— 7, AGAINST PASSAGE: None TOTAL — 0, EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0. RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0. BILLS FOR SECOND READING: Bill No. 2614, Draft 3 — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE TO AMEND CHAPTER 3, KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED, BY ADDING A NEW ARTICLE 6, RELATING TO THE REGISTRATION OF LOBBYISTS: Councilmember Kuali`i moved for adoption of Bill No. 2614, Draft 3, on second and final reading, and that it be transmitted to the Mayor for his approval, seconded by Councilmember Kaneshiro, and carried the following vote: COUNCIL MEETING 110 MARCH 23, 2016 FOR ADOPTION: Chock, Hooser, Kagawa, Kaneshiro, Kuali`i, Yukimura, Rapozo TOTAL - 7, AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL - 0, EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL - 0. RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL - 0. Bill No. 2616 -A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE TO AMEND SECTION 22-2.4 AND SECTION 22-10.6, KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO IMPOUNDMENT FEES: Councilmember Kuali`i moved for adoption of Bill No. 2616 on second and final reading, and that it be transmitted to the Mayor for his approval, seconded by Councilmember Kaneshiro, and carried the following vote: FOR ADOPTION: Chock, Hooser, Kagawa, Kaneshiro, Kuali`i, Yukimura, Rapozo TOTAL - 7, AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL - 0, EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL - 0. RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL- 0. Bill No. 2617 - A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING ORDINANCE NO. B-2015-796, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO THE OPERATING BUDGET OF THE COUNTY OF KAUAI, STATE OF HAWAII, FOR THE FISCAL YEAR JULY 1, 2015 THROUGH JUNE 30, 2016, BY REVISING THE AMOUNTS ESTIMATED IN THE GENERAL FUND (Kaua`i Humane Society Barking Dog Enforcement - $33,901): Councilmember Kagawa moved to receive Bill No. 2617 for the record, seconded by Councilmember Kaneshiro, and carried by the following vote: FOR RECEIPT: Chock, Hooser, Kagawa, Kaneshiro, Kuali`i, Yukimura, Rapozo TOTAL - 7, AGAINST RECEIPT: None TOTAL - 0, EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL- 0. RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL - 0. Council Chair Rapozo: That concludes the business for today. If there are no objections, this meeting is adjourned. ADJOURNMENT. There being no further business, the Council Meeting adjourned at 4:03 p.m.0• :ectfully submitted, • l IF JA b - K. I OUNTAIN-TANIGAWA County Clerk :cy ATTACHMENT 1 (March 23, 2016) FLOOR AMENDMENT Resolution No. 2016-36, Resolution Expressing the Support of the Council of the County of Kaua`i for the Proposed Adolescent Treatment and Healing Center Introduced by: JOANN A. YUKIMURA Amend Resolution No. 2016-36 by amending the 11th paragraph to read as follows: "WHEREAS, it's estimated that operating a 24-hour / 7-day a week ATHC will require operating subsidies of [between $267,000 to $865,000] approximately $1.2 million per year, depending on future assistance from the State of Hawaii; and" (Material to be deleted is bracketed. New material is underscored.)