HomeMy WebLinkAbout10/05/2016 Council minutes COUNCIL MEETING
OCTOBER 5, 2016
The Council Meeting of the Council of the County of Kaua`i was called to order
by Council Chair Mel Rapozo at the Council Chambers, 4396 Rice Street, Suite 201,
Lihu`e, Kaua`i, on Wednesday, October 5, 2016 at 8:31 a.m., after which the following
Members answered the call of the roll:
Honorable Mason K. Chock
Honorable Gary L. Hooser (present at 8:33 a.m.)
Honorable Ross Kagawa
Honorable Arryl Kaneshiro
Honorable JoAnn A. Yukimura
Honorable Mel Rapozo
Excused: Honorable KipuKai Kuali`i
APPROVAL OF AGENDA.
Councilmember Kaneshiro moved for approval of the agenda as circulated,
seconded by Councilmember Yukimura.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. There has been a request that as
we go through the agenda, we take Resolution No. 2016-39 after C 2016-207. If there
are no objections, that will be the order, otherwise, we will stick to the order of the
agenda.
The motion for approval of the agenda as circulated was then put, and carried
by a vote of 5:0:2 (Councilmembers Hooser and Kuali`i were excused).
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item, please.
INTERVIEW:
1. SALARY COMMISSION:
• Daniel K. Aki—Term ending 12/31/2018
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Mr. Aki, thank you for being here
today and for volunteering to serve on the Salary Commission. With that, we will
give you a few minutes to give us an overview about yourself and your experience,
and then we will open it up for questions.
DANIEL K. AKI: Thank you for having me here. I come from a
hospitality background. I attended Kamehameha Schools and the University of
COUNCIL MEETING 2 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Hawaii. After school, I was in the hospitality industry with food and beverage, and
for the last twenty (20) years, I was in Human Resources. I was born in Nanakuli
and now reside in Wailua Homesteads.
(Councilmember Hooser was noted as present.)
Mr. Aki: I came to Kaua`i on a transfer while working
for Sheraton Hotels & Resorts. I worked for a lot of the hotels and that industry. My
background for the last twenty (20) years, has been in Human Resources dealing with
employee issues, being the Director of a single unit hotel here called Ko`a Kea Hotel
& Resort at Po`ipu Beach.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much. Does anyone have any
questions for Mr. Aki? Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes.
Mr. Aki: Hi.
Councilmember Yukimura: Perhaps you can state your name for the
record.
Mr. Aki: Daniel Aki.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you. It sounds like you are well-suited
for this Commission. As you may know, it has been somewhat of a controversial
Commission. I would just like to know whether you are willing to work with those
kinds of parameters as well.
Mr. Aki: I have been informed that it is a little bit
different, but yes, I am willing to do that. It is something that I have done before. I
have worked with budgets, I worked on developing wage surveys, and I worked with
the Hawai`i Employers Counsel, so I am familiar with what needs to be done.
Councilmember Yukimura: Can you share with us your philosophy on
executive level salaries?
Mr. Aki: What do you mean?
Councilmember Yukimura: What do you think is important in the setting
of those salaries?
Mr. Aki: Well, it is a comparison to other positions that
fulfill the same type of requirements and you can take a comparison from county to
county. In my situation, it is position to position that have the same type of job
description. You make that comparison and you see where it lies. You also have to
look at what is happening within your County or within your department, hotel, or
COUNCIL MEETING 3 OCTOBER 5, 2016
wherever that is, and see how it compares. Does it match with the people you manage
and what does it take to bring in quality applicants? All of that comes into play.
Councilmember Yukimura: In terms of retention and being able to acquire
or get good talent, do you look at the County's record for being able to hire good people
in terms of whether or not the salary, for example, needs to be higher than what it
is?
Mr. Aki: I would say that it is one (1) point. Retention
is a big thing. If you want to retain someone, you need to be able to provide the salary
that is applicable. If they are managing someone that is making more money than
them, obviously that is not a good situation to be in, so you would have to look at that
as well, and you have to look at the record. If someone has been in the position for
several years and has not received any raises, you would have to look at what that
means in a performance-level and in different types of things.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Chock and then
Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. I think
Councilmember Yukimura asked my question. I will just say thank you for
submitting your interest and wanting to serve. I appreciate that and look forward to
you serving for us. Thank you.
Mr. Aki: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you, Daniel, for being willing to serve.
You have an impressive resume in Human Resources. As Councilmember Yukimura
said, it looks like you are really going to be a good fit for the Salary Commission. I
think Councilmember Yukimura paints a picture as though pay is the only issue, but
in the private sector, what is the vacation and sick leave benefits compared to the
County? In the County, we have twenty-one (21) days sick leave and twenty-one (21)
days vacation a year, which is almost a month and a half off per year. In the private
sector, you may make more money, but do you have forty-two (42) days off a year?
Mr. Aki: No.
Councilmember Kagawa: What is the private sector's vacation and sick
leave amount?
Mr. Aki: Well, in normal situations, it would be two (2)
weeks per year.
Councilmember Kagawa: Two (2) weeks per year?
COUNCIL MEETING 4 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Mr. Aki: In our hotel, we only have nine (9) days of
holiday, and we have a floating holiday as well as your birthday, but it is only nine (9)
days. It is not all of the holidays that are there, so that is not the same. It is not
apples to apples. The vacation piece, we generally use paid time off instead of
vacation and sick leave. For employees who have been working for one (1) to two (2)
years, they can get up to eighty (80) hours, which is two (2) weeks of vacation. So it
is different.
Councilmember Kagawa: So it is significantly less in the private sector.
In the private sector as well, if you make a bad decision, could you be fired on the
spot?
Mr. Aki: Not necessarily, but if you make an egregious
decision, obviously, that is going to impact your employment. You could be fired for
things as well in all areas of employment anywhere. Could you be fired on the spot?
Not necessarily. There are a lot of laws in place that prevent that.
Councilmember Kagawa: For example, in the recent months we have
had some instances where we made big mistakes and have had questions and
answers with the bosses that were in charge where they said, "It is my fault." It is
costing the taxpayers hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars because they failed
to think about how the roots of these trees would affect the roads and sidewalks in
seven (7) years. They said, "It is my fault." In the private sector, I am thinking if
that is your primary job, you could get fired for failing to look at what would happen
seven (7)years down the line. I am just thinking that it is a lot different in the private
sector because you can get fired.
Mr. Aki: If that is the scenario, then seven (7) years of
performance evaluations would have added up to somebody getting let go, if that was
the case.
Councilmember Kagawa: I am just saying that there is a big difference
between the private sector and the County. Do you agree?
Mr. Aki: There is. There is a difference, but there is no
difference in how you retain or how you pay your people to do the position and what
it takes when you deal with performance for a person. It is just the enforcement of
what the performance level standard is. If you are looking at a position that needs to
do the job, then you need to pay that person that salary.
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you. Good job.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions?
Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Is performance level standard something that
is set for every job where you work?
COUNCIL MEETING 5 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Mr. Aki: Well, in our case, yes, it is. It is goal-setting
at the beginning of the year, then we look at it maybe two (2) or three (3) times during
the year to see how far we have progressed, and then move on from there. We
generally like to have our goals completed, so we are not looking at firing anybody.
We are looking at providing an avenue for which their goals are going to be achieved,
so yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Do you do it based on goals that are set and
agreed upon by the person in the position and the appointing body?
Mr. Aki: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: And then you check two (2) or three (3) times
a year on how they are progressing?
Mr. Aki: Correct.
Councilmember Yukimura: Do you try to support them in achieving those
goals?
Mr. Aki: I think it is important that you support them
in achieving their goals.
Councilmember Yukimura: Right.
Mr. Aki: Nobody can do it by themselves. You have to
have a team to work through those things.
Councilmember Yukimura: Surely. The last question is, what is the
recommended process for recruiting in order to get the best person possible?
Mr. Aki: Well, I know there are different ways being in
the business for a little while. We have done it online with Hcareers. But personally,
I think the only way you can gauge a person is to go a personal interview; you get the
feel of where they have come from, who they are, what their values are, and those
types of things and you cannot get that from being online.
Councilmember Yukimura: What this presumes here is a competitive
process with extensive announcement of the position...
Mr. Aki: You post the position, you take interviews,
and you look at the candidates to see what their experiences are. Sometimes there is
a lack of experience, but in personal interviews, you see the attitude and desires are
there, or maybe they are just out of school, or something like that.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING 6 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions? If not, I just
have a couple. Thank you for being here. I appreciate your background and
experience. My following questions pertains specifically to the non-collective
bargaining personnel in the County because obviously, the Salary Commission has
no authority over them. I think I heard you say from Councilmember Kagawa's
questioning that you agree there is an obvious difference between the private and
public government sectors.
Mr. Aki: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: As you review, and there are a lot of
limitations as far as the government is concerned versus a resort. For resorts, the
bottom-line is the bottom-line. You strive to make money.
Mr. Aki: Correct.
Council Chair Rapozo: In the County, it is obviously a very different
goal. So whatever increase in spending, obviously, we have to come back with a way
to pay for it, and that is the challenge. But in the private sector, the pay increases
are based on merit. Is that correct?
Mr. Aki: It is based on...
Council Chair Rapozo: I am talking about non-union.
Mr. Aki: It is based on a lot of things. It is based on if
you make money. If you do not make money, there are no increases. Why should
there be?
Council Chair Rapozo: Right. Good. When you do decide to look at
pay raises for your...and I am not going use hotels, but in general.
Mr. Aki: Right.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is the fact that your time and service alone
should warrant a raise?
Mr. Aki: No.
Council Chair Rapozo: Should there be some attachment to
performance?
Mr. Aki: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: In fact, a huge part of that decision to give an
executive a raise should be their performance. I am a newbie in it the hotel industry,
but they do it differently in the hotel. In many cases, if you do not meet your goals,
then bye-bye.
COUNCIL MEETING 7 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Mr. Aki: Yes, in many cases, it is like that.
Council Chair Rapozo: That is what I am trying to get at...
Mr. Aki: From what I understand, the Salary
Commission makes recommendations as to the caps.
Council Chair Rapozo: Right.
Mr. Aki: And some of those things are taken care of in
other Commissions as far as performance level, so that is not really what would
happen with this Commission, is it?
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes. The reality of it is when the Salary
Commission puts the cap, they get the cap, and is not your issue. I understand that.
But I just want you to know that is what happens. When you put the cap, they get
the cap. They will come up and say all kinds of things, but I am saying that
historically and the records do not lie, you put the cap, they get the cap. Again, you
are going to set the cap and the controversy as Councilmember Yukimura talked
about, was not so much in the Commission, it was what happened after the
Commission made the recommendation.
Mr. Aki: I see.
Council Chair Rapozo: I think you will do very well. I really
appreciate your thinking because I think the same way, and I think that is what the
people want to see in that Commission.
Mr. Aki: Great.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much.
Mr. Aki: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions for this
gentleman go? Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: I just want to commend Mr. Aki, Jay Furfaro,
and even Paula. In the four (4) years that I have sat here, the quality of individuals
that we have had for our Boards and Commissions is one (1) area where I am very
pleased with the Administration's side. I have seen vast improvement over prior
years. We are getting high-quality individuals that are really adding to the County's
decisions that we are making. Thank you, and good job, Jay.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa said it well. There is
this continuous allegation in the public that says it is just a revolving door for the
same person. It is always nice to see new ones. This is your first time. You have
never served in the past.
COUNCIL MEETING 8 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Mr. Aki: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: You are a very courageous man. Thank you
very much, and thank you, Mr. Furfaro.
Mr. Aki: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. With that can we have the next
item, please?
JADE K. FOUNTAIN-TANIGAWA, County Clerk: Chair, did you want to
dispose...
Council Chair Rapozo: I am sorry, go ahead.
Councilmember Yukimura: I just want to say that based on the way that
Mr. Aki answered the questions, I am very pleased with the quality of his
appointment. It is so good to have quality expertise from the private sector in that
Commission that has to handle very difficult issues of how much to raise executive
level salaries.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there any other discussion
before we go to the next item?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Did want you to dispose of the item on the
Consent Calendar.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes please. We will go in order.
CONSENT CALENDAR:
C 2016-204 Communication (09/06/2016) from the Acting County Engineer,
transmitting for Council consideration, a Resolution Establishing A School Bus Stop
On Olohena Road In The Vicinity Of Its Intersection With Waipouli Road, Kawaihau
District, County Of Kaua`i: Councilmember Kaneshiro moved to receive C 2016-204
for the record, seconded by Councilmember Chock, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1
(Councilmember Kuali`i was excused).
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item, please.
There being no objections, Resolution No. 2016-39 was taken out of order.
RESOLUTIONS:
Resolution No. 2016-39 — RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING CROSSWALKS,
STRIPED PEDESTRIAN WALKWAYS, AND INTERSECTION MODIFICATIONS
ON WAIKOMO ROAD, KOLOA DISTRICT, COUNTY OF KAUAI
COUNCIL MEETING 9 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: We have one (1) registered speaker.
Council Chair Rapozo: Wait, I am sorry. Where did you go?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: We went to Resolution No. 2016-39.
Council Chair Rapozo: Oh, okay.
Councilmember Kaneshiro moved to receive Resolution No. 2016-39 for the
record, seconded by Councilmember Chock.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion? Councilmember
Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: Yes. Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. The
Garden Island Newspaper had this one wrong. I think they issued a false alarm to
the public that we were going to decide the fate of Waikomo Road when both, the
Administration and Council, had agreed last week at the Committee Meeting that
this plan should be scrapped for now. If the Administration wants to try and work
on this project in the future, they said that they would go back to the drawing board
and try to work with the community to get buy-in from the community, and then
hopefully reach a happy medium where both sides agree that this is going to be best
for the community. Again, the decision today was not to decide whether this is a good
idea or not. In fact, the decision was made last week that we are going to scrap the
Administration's plans at this point because there were too many problems in the
process. Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there any other discussion
before I suspend the rules? If not, the rules are suspended with no objection. Can we
have the first registered speaker?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The first registered speaker is Tina
Sakamoto.
TINA SAKAMOTO: Good morning, Council and staff. My name is
Tina Sakamoto. Thank you for this opportunity to speak in opposition of Resolution
No. 2016-39. It appears to me that our County Administration took it the following
steps in order to move the Mayor's legacy forward by the following process: 1) it
created a vision, the Mayor's Holo Holo 2020. It selected a program, Safe Routes to
School. It chose a project, Koloa Elementary SchoollWaikomo Road one-way street
design, and then it searched for project funding; state and federal Safe Routes to
School. To support this project, they gathered different community members and
created a task force, which included the Planning Department, the Department of
Public Works, Kaua`i Police Department (KPD), Get Fit Kaua`i, Koloa Elementary
School Parent Teacher Student Association (PTSA), and Malama 0 Koloa. Then, the
Resolution was designed. I ask you, what was omitted in the process? Might it be
COUNCIL MEETING 10 OCTOBER 5, 2016
neglecting to engage with and listen to the people and community affected by the
project? It is the County Administration's responsibility to listen to and willingly
explore other options and issues brought forward by the impacted community in an
open dialogue environment, which promotes public participation. When this
Resolution was brought before the County Council Housing & Transportation
Committee, the Committee requested information on the community's concerns. The
County Administration then held a workshop in K6loa, but the workshop was not
facilitated to welcome local community input. Last week, the Resolution came before
the Council Committee and the Committee listened and encouraged public testimony.
It had acknowledged that approximately ninety-five percent (95%) of the workshop
attendees opposed the Waikomo Road project. The Committee also received a two
hundred sixty (260) signature petition from local impacted residents in opposition to
the Waikomo Road project. It reviewed a community initiated Waikomo Road
pedestrian log and also heard about the County Administration's E-mails and
telephone calls to individuals to discourage public attendance and testimony
regarding the Waikomo Road project. The Housing &Transportation Committee took
action and voted to receive the Resolution. As elected officials, you make decisions as
representatives of the people. Public support is crucial for a community program to
succeed. Thank you for bringing the public's voice to the decision-making process,
and thank you for listening to the public's voice. I humbly ask you to receive this
Resolution. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Anyone else in the audience
wishing to testify on this matter? If not, I will call the meeting back to order.
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there further discussion? Councilmember
Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. Last week,
I actually went out and visited the site. I tried to measure what the County
right-of-way and road was. I marched thirteen (13) large steps, which approximate
about forty (40) feet of County right-of-way and road. Based on that distance, I think
we could have easily went with two-way traffic and a shared bike lane and walkway.
There is room to take care of both sides; however, it would mean taking away some
right-of-way that is on the shoulders of property owners. It is our County road that
if we decided that this was very important for the public safety of walkers and bikers,
then we could accomplish it. But I think what happened was we said, "No, we want
to allow the private owners to have the County right-of-way as their use and do
everything on the existing pavement instead." With that, what they wanted to do
was actually take away one (1) lane and turn one (1) lane into a bike lane. Again,
there are a number of ways to accomplish a task. In this case, the method we chose
to accomplish our task was shutting off one (1) lane of traffic and that is why we ran
into public opposition. We could have accomplished it had we worked with the
community and done it in a better way. Hopefully the next time around, we will see
better cooperation. Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo.
COUNCIL MEETING 11 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any other discussion?
Councilmember Chock and then Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. To add to
the discussion, my only hope is that the community is engaged at an early stage of
the process and that their ideas are listened to. My hope is that we also look at the
cost of the sidewalk and expansion of the bridge. It is something that we have not
talked about in this proposed project. It might be something that we could consider
moving forward. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: I want to thank Tina Sakamoto for a very
well-organized and clear summary and testimony. I also want to thank the
Administration for finally understanding that it would not work to force a project on
the community. I know that in wanting Safe Routes to School, there is a sincere
desire to enable our children to walk safely to school. I am hopeful that maybe the
community can find an alternative trail or pathway that is off the road, and that
might take some thinking and almost on the ground looking, but I hope that might
be found. I also think that improving the connectivity of Po`ipu Road, there are some
potential cross-throughs that need to be looked at. Finally, I hope that we can
implement a Koloa-Po`ipu Traffic Circulation Plan, which is about reducing the
number of cars in the area by providing alternative ways to get around.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: I just want to say my hope is that when we go
back to the community, we look at the big picture and look at plans that are in place
now; the South Kaua`i Plan and Traffic Flow Plan. Hopefully we can go with the
community and prioritize the projects. What are the important projects that we need
to alleviate traffic in the area? I think we will get more buy-in. Of course money is a
limiting factor, but we have to say, "We think that is the most congested area. The
Safe Routes to School may be a priority on the list, but it may not be the number one
priority." I think if the Administration approaches it that way and gets community
buy-in as far as what the priorities are and what we can accomplish, they may get
more buy-in from the community, which will make it a lot easier. Start with
number 1 and not number 5 where people are going to say, "No, we want numbers 1
through 4 done before we will even agree to Safe Routes to School, which is number 5
on the priority list." I think that may help. If you cannot do number 1 or number 2,
the Administration should say, "We do not have the resources for this, so let us do
number 3. We will try to work on number 1 and 2 and then try to knock them off." I
think having the priority list will hopefully help the community know that we are
moving in this direction and this is what we are trying to do. That is my hope in
bringing everything back to the table.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any other discussion? If not, I will
just say this is what happens when you let the grant dictate the direction of the
County. When we go out and seek funds from the federal government and then we
COUNCIL MEETING 12 OCTOBER 5, 2016
come back and have to spend the money, we are then forced to do things rather than
talk to the community and engage the community early on. We have seen this time
and time again where projects are brought here, the public finds out, they start
screaming and yelling, and then we have to go back and redo what we have done. I
do not know what we have spent so far on this project, but I know whatever we spent
is a waste. It could have been avoided if we met with the community upfront, all the
community and not only the ones that support your idea, but the entire community.
This County constantly does that. They will come out, decide as an Administration
this is what we want to do, start the thing moving, and then tell the public or come
tell the Council. That is wrong and until we change that and until we put the
community in the early stages as Councilmember Yukimura just talked about, we are
going to continue to have this problem. You cannot let the grant dictate the direction
of what the County does. We dictate what the County will do and then we seek the
funding to facilitate what we want to do. That is the right way, but this County has
a problem with that. They think that the fact that we can get the grant makes us a
better County. No, it does not make us a better County. We can write a great grant
proposal, get the money, but that does not make us a better County. What makes us
a better County is when we can make projects that benefit the community. This
project is going to take a perceived problem on Waikomo Road in K51oa and take it
down to the intersection by the service station where we already have a problem.
Why would we do that? It makes no sense. Again, get the community involved early,
get the buy-in early, then move forward and secure the funding, make it happen, and
then we can all live happily ever after. Anything else? If not, the motion is to receive.
Roll call.
The motion to receive Resolution No. 2016-39 for the record was then put,
and carried by the following vote:
FOR RECEIPT: Chock, Hooser, Kagawa, Kaneshiro,
Yukimura, Rapozo TOTAL— 6,
AGAINST RECEIPT: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Kuali`i TOTAL — 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Six (6) ayes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Let us go back to the start of the agenda, Jade.
If any of those items will take some time, then we will move it to the end of the
agenda. I do want to get C 2016-207 because there are people that are here that want
to testify who cannot stay all day.
COMMUNICATIONS:
C 2016-205 Communication (09/06/2016) from the Emergency Management
Administrator, requesting Council approval to receive and expend funds, in the
amount of $570,000.00, from the United States Department of Homeland Security,
via State of Hawaii Department of Defense, to be used to enhance the capability of
State and local units of government to prevent, deter, respond to, and recover from
COUNCIL MEETING 13 OCTOBER 5, 2016
threats and incidents of terrorism, as well as "all hazards" catastrophic preparedness
initiatives: Councilmember Kaneshiro moved to approve C 2016-205, seconded by
Councilmember Kagawa.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion? Is there any public
testimony?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
The motion to approve C 2016-205 was then put, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1
(Councilmember Kuali`i was excused).
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item, please.
C 2016-206 Communication (09/06/2016) from the Chief of Police,requesting
Council approval to enter into agreement with Kauai Blue, Inc., dba Sheraton Kaua`i
Resort, to host the Inter-County Criminal Intelligence Unit Conference to be held
March 29 — 31, 2017, and to indemnify, defend, and hold the other harmless from
liability arising from a party's breach of the agreement or the negligence, gross
negligence, or intentional misconduct of such party or its officers, directors,
employees, agents, contractors, members, or participants: Councilmember Kaneshiro
moved to approve C 2016-206, seconded by Councilmember Yukimura.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion? Is there any public
testimony?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
The motion to approve C 2016-206 was then put, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1
(Councilmember Kuali`i was excused).
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item.
C 2016-207 Communication (09/23/2016) from Council Chair Rapozo,
requesting the presence of the Managing Director, Director of Parks & Recreation,
and the Chief of Police, to discuss the reported relocation of services and activities
between the Kapa`a Neighborhood Center and Kapa'a Armory: Councilmember
Kaneshiro moved to receive C 2016-207 for the record, seconded by Councilmember
Kagawa.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is the Administration prepared to
do a presentation or at least let us know how this all came about because obviously,
COUNCIL MEETING 14 OCTOBER 5, 2016
the Council was kept in the dark? If you can start by telling us how this started,
whose idea it was, who requested it, what your plan is, then we will have some
questions from Councilmembers, and then we will open it up for public testimony.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
WALLACE G. REZENTES, JR., Managing Director: Good morning
Councilmembers, Wally Rezentes, Jr., Managing Director. I am going to give some
update, in general terms, to what this subject matter is about, and then I will pass it
on to Lenny and/or Chief Perry to discuss some of the details.
Council Chair Rapozo: Wally, before we get to the update, start with
the beginning. I am interested in how this started because I think that is what the
Councilmembers want to know.
Mr. Rezentes: Okay. If I could have a little bit of latitude
today to explain some of the history, and let me start with the end. First off, the
Administration will not be pursuing the Kapa'a Neighborhood Center and interim
Kaua`i Police Department substation swap. The Mayor's decision was, in part, based
on some of the very preliminary cost estimates and permitting requirements that
would be involved in such an undertaking as well as some of the feedback that was
received by the senior community in Kapa`a. The Mayor, as you know, is away. He
has been trying to arrange meetings and discussions with the Kapa'a seniors, some
of whom have requested the meeting, and he will try to continue and meet with them
upon his return. He also wanted to have further discussions and receive input and
feedback from other users of the Kapa'a community who would likely use the facility
or have used the facility in the past.
The Administration was informed that there was going to be a change in
management or authority over the Kapa'a Armory site from the State Department of
Defense (DOD) to the State Department of Land and Natural Resources (DLNR). Our
understanding is that the transfer has not yet been completed or consummated.
Lenny can go into this in more detail, but we were also advised that DLNR may be
willing to provide the County with an Executive Order (EO) for the Kapa'a Armory
site. At present as you know, a portion of the Kapa`a Armory site is utilized by KPD.
So we still intend to pursue obtaining the Kapa'a Armory site from the State DLNR
and will be requesting Council approval if it is determined that the State is willing to
allow this to occur. Lenny Rapozo from the Department of Parks & Recreation has
been taking the lead in our discussions thus far with the State of Hawaii. Discussions
occurred between our Department of Parks & Recreation and KPD about the
possibility of having KPD move to the Kapa'a Neighborhood Center, and the
Department of Parks & Recreation move to the Kapa'a Armory site. This exchange
was viewed as temporary in nature for KPD, but something positive as it would
improve KPD's presence on the highway and bike path, which they felt was important
for them. Again, I will let Lenny and Chief Perry provide further details later on.
Lenny had some meetings with some of the users of the facility, including the
senior community who was against the move. Mayor Carvalho, as I said, is away.
COUNCIL MEETING 15 OCTOBER 5, 2016
He is still in the process of setting up those meetings with the community and we
hope that we can arrange those meetings sooner than later in the next week or so. I
guess that is kind of my summation of my details and I will pass it on to Lenny who
can provide more information because he was involved from the beginning on this
project.
Council Chair Rapozo: Mr. Rapozo.
LEONARD A. RAPOZO, Jr., Director of Parks & Recreation: For
the record, Director of Parks & Recreation, Lenny Rapozo. About two (2) or three (3)
months ago, we were informed by the Department of Defense that by the end of the
year, December 31st, they would be vacating the Kapa'a Armory and would be turning
over their management or lease management back to the State of Hawai`i, which is
managed by the Department of Land and Natural Resources. I saw this as an
opportunity, an opportunity that probably is going to come once in our lifetime, to
expand something in the Kapa'a community. At the current Kapa'a Neighborhood
Center, we are restricted not only by size, but in the amount of services that we can
offer there. For instance, Summer Fun or Summer Enrichment Program, where we
take ninety (90) kids at the center and we could easily take another one
hundred (100). In Lihu`e, which is a smaller district, we take one hundred (100)
off-site at Elsie H. Wilcox Elementary School and ninety (90) at the Lihu`e
Neighborhood Center. Kapa`a, being the biggest district on this island, it is
foreseeable that having those two (2) neighborhood centers would greatly improve
services to the area and also the Kapa'a community. So realizing that this was going
to happen in December, I saw it as an need to kind of quickly get into the community
to first talk to the users, not only to inform them, but to get feedback, and also to see
what the process would be to securing the neighborhood center, also knowing that
KPD was also in the Kapa'a Armory. They use a portion of the armory and in the
backside, Water Safety Operation Bureau also uses a portion of the armory. If you
have not been to the armory, the armory is at least two (2) or two and a half (2%)
times bigger than it the Kapa'a Neighborhood Center, which I believe, would increase
our ability to offer more things for the Kapa'a community, as well as the big grassy
lawn west of the neighborhood center that can also serve as other needs. Currently,
if you go past there in the afternoon, it serves the needs to youth soccer and youth
football that practices at the area. Being adjacent to the Bryan J. Baptiste Sports...
Council Chair Rapozo: Hold on Lenny. Please turn off your cell
phones or put on vibrate or silent. Thank you.
Mr. Rapozo: By its location alone being across the Bryan J.
Baptiste Sports Complex, I saw it is a great addition to the complex itself.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
COUNCIL MEETING 16 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Mr. Rapozo: Having youth programs there and being able
to access the sports complex across the street, can only enhance what we are try to
do within the community. As far as users of the community, I already foresee having
social functions in the armory that would easily be twice the size what we can offer
at the Kapa'a Neighborhood Center, as well as any overflow into it the adjacent grassy
area. Parking will be greatly improved. If you have ever been to the Kapa'a
Neighborhood Center, parking is currently a great premium. We could have parking
in front of it as we as alongside and in the back of the Kapa'a Armory. I see it only
as a win-win situation for the Kapa'a community. I understand the seniors have
their position as to why they would not want to move to the armory.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present.)
Mr. Rapozo: But also in trying to look at what the needs of
the community as well as the current usage regarding the Kaua`i Police Department,
we felt that the swap might have been the best way to do it. We have not had the
opportunity to go to the general community of Kapa'a to get their feedback on this,
and that is because we just have not had that time. We wanted to first focus on the
immediate users and eventually get to the community. In looking at preliminary
financials in terms of what we have do to do the upgrade to both sides of the facility,
one for KPD as well as for the Department of Parks & Recreation, we felt that this
may not be the best time to do it. As Wally had mentioned, we will pursue the armory
to get it for County use and allow KPD to continue to operate•out of there and
hopefully somewhere in the future when the time is right, there is better finances,
and we are able to upgrade both facilities, that we will be able to do that and have
the Kapa'a community have the armory as an additional neighborhood center for
their use. If we are to pursue this, the next step would have been to do a needs
assessment, but I will not get into that because the Mayor has made the decision that
we are going to keep everything status quo, but we will try to work to get the armory
into the County's hands so that we can ensure that it stays in the County and maybe
sometime in the future when financially we are better suited, we can make both
upgrades at that time. That is pretty much where we are today.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Councilmember Yukimura also
requested this briefing in addition to Councilmember Chock. Councilmember
Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you, both, for your explanation. I
guess I am wondering why we did not do what we are now doing, which is just secure
the armory for County use, which I believe is a good idea, rather than jumping right
into a plan to make such a drastic change?
Mr. Rapozo: But we are moving. We are moving every
way. We wanted to talk to the users and the stakeholder to get their feedback as to
what we are doing. Also, the DOD has to go through their steps and I did not want
to lose the opportunity that we may not get it and someone else would get it before
us. We were moving to secure it. It was just a matter if it was going to be part of the
COUNCIL MEETING 17 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Department of Parks & Recreation or are we now going to have move to the Police
Department?
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, I understand that at these meetings
people were told that the plan to use Kapa`a Neighborhood Center for a police
substation was a done-deal, and so it did not seem like it was just getting input. It
seemed like it was going to be something that was going to be railroaded through the
community.
Mr. Rapozo: I really believe this project would be a big win
for the Kapa'a community, and if we had the financing and money, I would love to
pursue both sides. Now as being a done-deal, in discussing with the users, which
includes KPD, if they could share the facility, KPD has public safety concerns with
them solely occupying the neighborhood center, and that was made known to us when
we met with them as users. So to say it is a done-deal, the input from getting what
we got from KPD, if we wanted to make it work, it was not a done-deal. It was getting
information from the users. So depending upon who you talk to will tell you whether
it was a done-deal or not, but I will tell you that it was not a done-deal until we spoke
to KPD as being one of stakeholders in the property.
Councilmember Yukimura: Are you saying that it was being said that it
was a done-deal?
Mr. Rapozo: That is not what I said. I said to you that you
heard it was a done-deal by whoever you spoke with. I am saying that when we spoke
to the users, one of the stakeholders is Kaua`i Police Department who occupies the
armory, we were made aware that they would not be able to share the facility because
they have public safety concerns in their operations. I never said that it was a
done-deal. What I am saying is that from the feedback that we got from the user, in
this case Kauai Police Department, in order to make it work and for them to be able
to stay in one of the facilities, we would have to make a swap and they would not be
able to share the facility with any other user.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. The reports were that you said it was
a done-deal.
Mr. Rapozo: I never said that.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
Mr. Rezentes: In the Mayor's perspective, it was not...
Mr. Rapozo: It was never said.
Mr. Rezentes: It was not a done-deal. He wanted to still
have further discussions with the community, seniors, and others.
COUNCIL MEETING 18 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. I guess that was not made clear to the
community and that is why it stirred up all of the concerns about it. That is why we
are here today because the Council was totally out of the loop and all we got was
feedback from community that this done-deal was going to happen. There was a lot
of concern about it because the neighborhood center is such a beloved place and is the
place of so much activity. I think you are correct, Lenny, that the armory brings up
a lot of potential opportunities for the Department of Parks & Recreation or the Police
Department, and that is good, but I think the way it was communicated, the lack of
briefing to the Council, and all of this created a lot of frustration and concern.
Mr. Rapozo: My intention was to communicate or have
meetings with everybody involved first, all stakeholders, including the Kapa'a
community in general. We just never got to that point. We were asked to come here
before. At some point, I would have to come here and ask for money if we were to
move forward with a needs assessment. I would have to come before this body to ask
for that funding and at that time, we would probably be able to make such a
presentation that we spoke to the stakeholders that we are looking to do this step. I
see time is of the essence because they want to move out by December 31St, and we
want to secure our position with the State to occupy that building whether it is the
Police Department or the Department of Parks & Recreation.
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, time is of the essence to secure the
building. I think we all agree with that because if you do not have another place for
the police, where will they go? But it was not timing of the essence to make this plan
happen or to even have a plan. It really helps to let the Council know that you are
going to start these community briefings and requests for information or feedback,
because then when they come to us, we can help explain what it really is about if we
were briefed. But when we do not know, then we are all caught off-guard, too, and
then there is concern and the frustration continues. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Real quick, Lenny, so your plan was to come
to the Council after you had gotten the...
Mr. Rapozo: My next step would have been the general
public; get all of the users, everybody in the Kapa'a community and have a public
meeting, "This is what we are thinking about doing and this is what we want to have
happen. What do folks think?" In my heart, I believed and I told the seniors, they
wanted to know who was the person who wanted to do this is. I raised my hand.
(Councilmember Hooser was noted as not present.)
Mr. Rapozo: I think Councilmember Chock was there. I
raised my hand because I truly believe that this is such a big asset that would greatly
improve the Kapa'a community, and I wanted to jump on it. I see it as a big win for
them in terms of just seeing the current operations at Kapa`a Neighborhood Center
and what this can bring to the community as well as what it adds to the sports
complex. I felt this was a good thing for them, and yet, you are right, Council Chair
Rapozo. The next step was to have a general public meeting, inviting the whole
COUNCIL MEETING 19 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Kapa'a community and let them know, then from there, come here, and if that was
going to be the next step, get the needs assessment and come here and do the whole
presentation and inform you what we have done so far. I take note of what you said
about preliminary...maybe I should have talked to the Public Works / Parks &
Recreation Committee Chair. So I will note that. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Well, I think so, because I am reading your
response and you do not have a cost estimate. I am not a contractor or engineer, but
I know based on what I have seen with County projects, the cost to do these
renovations on both buildings would be pretty significant.
Mr. Rapozo: I would think the armory would be more
because just in speaking with the occupants now, DOD, they have the original roof,
which was from 1964, or 1963, or what is it was. So that in and of itself, will cost us
money.
Council Chair Rapozo: I guess my point is when the Administration
looks at an opportunity and just ballpark figures, I have to believe that it would be
over one million dollars ($1,000,000).
Mr. Rapozo: Easily, I agree, totally.
Council Chair Rapozo: Does the Administration think we can afford
that right now? Where would we get the money? This is not for you, Lenny, but it is
really for Wally. Where would the money come from? I am being very conservative
with the one million dollars ($1,000,000).
Mr. Rezentes: If we were successful in obtaining the
Executive Order from the State long-term, then that would give us the option of
looking at investing a significant amount of money. The options include looking at
the Capital Improvements Projects (CIP) Budget, reprioritization of existing projects,
and looking at our bond fund budget and reprioritizing those projects.
Council Chair Rapozo: Wally, let me just say that all of these things
require the Council.
Mr. Rezentes: Oh, yes, absolutely.
Council Chair Rapozo: Why would the Council not be informed early
on? This is a significant project. This is not putting up a bus stop or a stop sign. This
is a significant project that we had heard...some the Councilmembers first heard
about this when they read it in paper.
Mr. Rapozo: Council Chair Rapozo, it is my project. Maybe
the steps were wrong in not informing you. I just felt that I needed to do more
community work in terms of what their feelings were to have this as a neighborhood
center and then work the numbers afterwards. I realized that yes, it was going to be
COUNCIL MEETING 20 OCTOBER 5, 2016
minimum. I was thinking two million dollars ($2,000,000) to three million
dollars ($3,000,000).
Council Chair Rapozo: I am thinking probably three million
dollars ($3,000,000) to five million dollars ($5,000,000) for the two (2).
Mr. Rapozo: I agree. I do not know where the money was
going to come from, but at that point, we would have to look strongly and see, as
Wally said. Maybe it would be some of the Department of Parks & Recreation's
projects. I do not know. We would have to reprioritize. I do not have that answer
now because I did not have the number. It is noted that maybe we should have come
here, but I felt that at the time, I needed to get to the users and look at what the
needs were going to be to get an idea of what that number was going to be.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you. Thank you, Lenny, for your
written responses to Council questions and community questions, too. When you
explained the timeline, I think it clears up what happened. It is much clearer. I
think it is a nice thought to try to acquire this building. Just to confirm, the needs
assessment is something that you are moving forward on?
Mr. Rapozo: No, we are not.
Councilmember Chock: Okay.
Mr. Rapozo: We are going to keep everything status quo.
Councilmember Chock: Okay. Thank you. The only other question
that I have at this time is relating to the discussion on KPD's options. Has there been
other discussions in terms of other locations?
Mr. Rapozo: I will leave that for the Police Department to
answer because it is their project. But yes, they have had some other options. We
may be aware that they were hoping to build a station in the Mahelona Medical
Center area as one (1) option; of course, they are at the armory, which is the second
option; and I believe another option was maybe the grassy area next to the armory.
But I will leave those questions for KPD to answer. They will be more in tune as to
exactly what those options would be.
Councilmember Chock: Okay. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else? Councilmember Kagawa
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you, Lenny and Wally. I think as I
talked to some of the seniors, they mentioned that ideally, if the seniors were able to
primarily use the current facility and then the current police substation be turned
COUNCIL MEETING 21 OCTOBER 5, 2016
into a neighborhood center for the purposes that you have been talking about to
satisfy the youth needs, that would be the ideal situation. Is that on the table?
(Councilmember Hooser was noted as present.)
Councilmember Kagawa: Obviously, if the Mahelona Medical Center
site can be developed, then we have that option.
Mr. Rapozo: Yes, hopefully at some point. It looks like the
win for everybody would be that the Police Department would get their station
wherever it is, then the Department of Parks & Recreation would have both facilities
at our disposal to manage, and then the seniors could stay where they wanted to. But
by not having that, if KPD needed to occupy a building, they have requested that they
be the sole occupant of the building.
Councilmember Kagawa: The other question that I have is during those
summer months or winter breaks when we have youth programs, I imagine that the
seniors have their activities and we have all the children running around. Is there
some dangerous situations at times when we have the youth running around and we
have seniors having their activities?
Mr. Rapozo: I was not aware of dangerous situations until
I met with them. They said that they are fearful that the kids will bang into them
and then they will get hurt.
Councilmember Kagawa: Okay.
Mr. Rapozo: We need to look at that and figure out what
we are going to do, but for six (6) weeks, we do have kids there. Some of the concerns
that we have when the kids are there are the people on the path that are walking to
the neighborhood center to use the restrooms or enter is a concern because we now
need to control the safety of the kids. That would pretty much be alleviated at the
armory aside from taking on more kids. I do not want to get off-topic, but we put a
port-a-potty out there for six (6) weeks during that time so that the people on the path
can use it when we have the kids programs.
Councilmember Kagawa: The last question that I have is, I see there is
a lack of a gym in the Kapa'a area for the community. Is the current building at the
armory roof height able to be a gym?
Mr. Rapozo: I am glad you asked that Councilmember
Kagawa. When my dad was with the (inaudible), they played volleyball and
basketball in the armory.
Councilmember Kagawa: Wow.
Mr. Rapozo: Yes, there is the possibility for athletics. So I
also see that as another positive for the gym.
COUNCIL MEETING 22 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Councilmember Kagawa: Okay, let us go find a new police station.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay.
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions?
Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: As we are trying to pursue the DOD portion of
the State's land, does the State charge us rent to be there?
Mr. Rapozo: No. As an Executive Order, they maintain
ownership and they give us managerial rights.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: Did they charge DOD rent?
Mr. Rapozo: I do not know what the terms of their lease is.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: So the likelihood of them allowing us to take
the rest of the area is kind of high or are they looking for someone to be...if DOD was
paying for rent, are they looking for someone else to be paying rent?
Mr. Rapozo: No. I have gotten assurances both, from our
Board of Land and Natural Resources representative for Kaua`i as well as the Land
Agent here, that we have the inside tract as long as we want to pursue it for County
purposes. We do not pay any rent for all of our EOs that we have from State. We
just need to keep them up-to-date if we do improvements to the land.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: Okay. It sound goods to keep pursuing it. If
they are not getting rent from anybody else, then it is a good for to us to be able to
get the entire property and have the flexibility to use it.
Mr. Rapozo: I agree.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions? I have one (1).
Wally, as far as the Police Department relocation, it must have been back in 2010
when the discussions started and we secured the site at Mahelona Medical Center.
What is the Administration...
Mr. Rezentes: It goes back to the question that you posed
earlier, money. We are not talking one million dollars ($1,000,000), four million
dollars ($4,000,000), or five million dollars ($5,000,000). My understanding is that is
probably going to be twelve million dollars ($12,000,000), thirteen million
dollars ($13,000,000), or fourteen million dollars ($14,000,000). So at that level
without any other outside support and if it is on the backs of the taxpayers for that
level of funding, we would need to look at bond funds or other funds. I am not sure if
the State will be able to help and participate, but at that level, ultimately, my guess
COUNCIL MEETING 23 OCTOBER 5, 2016
is that it is going to involve real property tax consequences or some other revenue
source consequence because the debt service on that kind of money is not very cheap.
I think those discussions need to be had with this body. At this stage, are we willing
to understand that with that type of size of project, are we willing to look at revenue
sources to support that type of funding commitment?
Council Chair Rapozo: So the Administration is not look at that site
at all right now?
Mr. Rezentes: We are discussing all of our bond fund options
and projects. Nothing is off of the table. It is something that we have to...
Council Chair Rapozo: But really, how much discussion has this
County had since we acquired that land as far as relocating or moving?
Mr. Rezentes: I have been gone for four (4) years.
Council Chair Rapozo: I know you were not here.
Mr. Rezentes: I am not sure in the recent years. I know we
had some discussions earlier on with Chief Perry when I was at the Department of
Finance. There was an agreement with Mahelona Medical Center. I understand as
of last week, there was a possibility of another site location near Kapa'a Middle
School. I am not sure how much discussion KPD had with the Department of
Education (DOE). I got a call from DOE last weekend and I asked them to contact
KPD because they needed to better understand what KPD's requirements were as far
as land and building.
Council Chair Rapozo: I guess my question is, I would assume that
someplace in the Administration building there is a list of priorities of projects that
you folks want to see.
Mr. Rezentes: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: I am assuming that the KPD relocation to
Mahelona Medical Center is...I have never heard of it. In all of the budgets that we
have gone through...we got the land and it is like nothing. We are going spend
millions of dollars to move a police station down to Kapa'a town, and then when they
move we are going to spend millions of dollars to renovate it back to another use.
Mr. Rezentes: No. That is why...more so, if you are going to
spend month two million dollars ($2,000,000), three million dollars ($3,000,000), four
million dollars ($4,000,000), or five million dollars ($5,000,000) on an interim move,
it would not make sense especially if you are going to spend thirteen million
dollars ($13,000,000), fourteen million dollars ($14,000,000), or whatever on another
huge building.
COUNCIL MEETING 24 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Council Chair Rapozo: That is my point, Wally. Unless we decided
we are going scrap Mahelona Medical Center.
Mr. Rezentes: Yes. I do not know and I do not think we are
there.
Council Chair Rapozo: And that is the kind of feeling that I got.
When we see this, it is like okay, if we are going dump this money, redo a whole place,
and make it a police station, then we are going scrap Mahelona Medical Center. So
it is not a money issue, it is a priority issue. If the priority is not to move to Mahelona
Medical Center, then this is the next best thing. Is that the decision?
Mr. Rezentes: It is a priority and funding issue.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions?
Councilmember Hooser.
Councilmember Hooser: Thank you. I think for us, it was stated earlier
that one of the biggest issues was being surprised by phone calls from the community
and not being informed. Thank you for being here to inform us today. There is a
temporary facility and then there is the permanent facility for the Kapa'a substation,
correct? We are talking about the temporary facility that is going to either be at the
armory or at the community center, right?
Mr. Rezentes: Yes, that is the discussion.
Councilmember Hooser: Do you know how many feet above sea level
the armory location is?
Mr. Rapozo: I do not know that. If you are asking if it is in
a tsunami zone or flood zone, yes it is.
Councilmember Hooser: So that is in the flood zone already?
Mr. Rapozo: Yes.
Councilmember Hooser: And is the armory as well as the neighborhood
center?
Mr. Rapozo: Yes.
Councilmember Hooser: So both are in a flood zone?
Mr. Rapozo: Yes.
Councilmember Hooser: I just want encourage us to think that if we
are putting millions of dollars into facilities, that we look at those kind of things with
not just today's flood zone, but tomorrow's sea level rise and that kind of thing. It
COUNCIL MEETING 25 OCTOBER 5, 2016
does not make sense to pump millions and millions of dollars into a facility that
whether it is next year or ten (10) years from now, is going to be flooded. Thank you.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions? If not, thank
you very much. While the rules are suspended, do we have any registered speakers?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Chair, the first registered speaker is Bill
Peterson, followed by Wilma Chandler.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: I was wondering if you were going to call KPD
up at some point.
Council Chair Rapozo: I am sorry. Mr. Peterson, I apologize. Thank
you, Councilmember Kagawa.
DARRYL D. PERRY, Chief of Police: For the record, Darryl Perry,
Kaua`i Chief of Police. Good morning, Councilmembers. This has been a contentious
issue, I might say. Just like you, I was just notified about the Mayor's decision. We
have been working with Lenny and Mayor's Office on this, but I will just talk about
our substation. Initially when I first got here, we looked at the old substation in
Kapa'a by the ballpark and I inquired whether or not that structure was...I wanted
to look at the permits and the rest because it did not fit our needs. We found out that
there were no permits. I said, "Well, this is an illegal structure," and I was told, "No,
it is just an unpermitted structure." I was confused with that assessment.
Nonetheless, we had to move and the move was to the armory. We had that
opportunity to move there. We did not have any other option at that time. Prior to
that, we met with Jerry Walker, Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of Hawaii Health
System Corporation, and obtained a fifty (50) year lease for one dollar ($1) a year so
that we could anticipate putting a substation up at Mahelona Medical Center. In
being situated there, there is a variety of advantages. One, for example, is being out
of the tsunami zone and the inundation zone for floods and the rest. That was an
ideal situation for us. We had to affirm our position in trying to relocate the police
station and to get some unbiased type of assessment, we hired Architects Hawai`i to
do an assessment of three (3) sites; two (2) options were at the armory and one (1)
would be just refurbishing the whole armory. Another would be locating a station
right next to the armory, the other was Kapa'a Middle School, and the last one was
the Mahelona Medical Center. This was done on June 16, 2014. The final report
came in and the cost assessment revealed that the lowest cost would be putting a
station next to the armory. It came in at ten million four hundred thousand
dollars ($10,400,000), almost ten million five hundred thousand
dollars ($10,500,000), but we would still be in the inundation zone. So that was not
something that we were looking at. The next lowest cost was Mahelona Medical
Center site, which came in at eleven million six hundred thousand
dollars ($11,600,000). Since that time, there has not been any movement. We moved
COUNCIL MEETING 26 OCTOBER 5, 2016
to the station at the armory. I will be honest with you, every time I hear a report of
an earthquake in California, Alaska, or Japan, I worry about the coastal lines here,
especially us being first responders. If a tsunami were to hit and wipe out our station,
we would be in no position to help anyone. One of our main priorities was to make
sure that some type of study be done and we continue to push forward to get a police
substation in the Kawaihau District. This Friday, I have a meeting with the current
CEO, Peter Klune, at 1:00 p.m. and we will be discussing those issues. Hopefully we
can meet with other in the community and political leaders who hold the purse
strings, and perhaps we can get some money for this. As Councilmember Hooser
mentioned, it is not just for today, it is for the long-term. As you know, we did move
the Waimea substation. That was part of the fire station, so we moved higher up by
Waimea High School with the help of the Easter Seals and the Mayor's Office. I am
not too worried about that area, but for the Kapa`a-Kawaihau area, I am worried
about future plans about being able to address the emergency needs of the
community. I will be happy to answer any questions.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you, Chief Perry. How many years do
we have on the one dollar ($1) per year lease for the Mahelona Medical Center site?
Mr. Perry: Fifty (50) years. It is one dollar ($1) a year,
and three (3) years have passed or maybe going on four (4) years.
Councilmember Kagawa: So we have forty-seven (47) more years?
Mr. Perry: Just about, yes.
Councilmember Kagawa: I think if we get started soon, it will be worth
putting in some investment. But as the years go by on the lease, then I think each
time, you have to look at either extending the lease or looking at other options. But
this eleven million six hundred thousand dollar ($11,600,000) figure, I think it kind
of scares everyone away from pursuing it at this time when we are struggling
financially. Does it initially have to be that large of a facility? Can we build something
for half the price that we can do and leave room for expansion? I am worried. What
is the minimum that we can do to build something that is going to be functional at
this time, rather than have an eleven million six hundred thousand
dollar ($11,600,000) facility with all of the bells and whistles that is perhaps much
larger than we need? Can we do something with a lot less than eleven million six
hundred thousand dollars ($11,600,000)?
Mr. Perry: What we did is we went to the Big Island to
look at the Pahoa substation that they built out there. We looked at their station and
we went with the minimum that we felt was appropriate for our needs, and this is
what the number came out to. Of course, we can also go back and look at other areas
where we can cut to make it less costly, but remember, this is almost two and a
half (2%) years ago. I think the prices may have gone up again. We certainly can do
that. What we need to do is get a station, at least get it started and maybe later on
COUNCIL MEETING 27 OCTOBER 5, 2016
expand, but just get the basics right now. I am sure we can reduce the cost on this.
Currently, we have at the matrix consultant. They are doing a workload study for us
to assess our staffing needs and the rest to see how we can work more efficiently. We
are doing everything that we can so that we can give the County the biggest bang-
for-the-buck. But we need to have a station, whether we reduce it, we could do that,
and I think that is the way to go.
Councilmember Kagawa: Six (6) years ago, when we had fifty million
dollars ($50,000,000) in our surplus, then fine. Maybe we can go for something that
we can foresee will last a really long time and put the investment in, but right now,
we are not that the stage. We do not even have eleven million six hundred thousand
dollars ($11,600,000)in our surplus for the whole County. I think some options would
be great; one with the bare minimum needs at that time and hopefully that number
is significantly less and it will be easier to bite. We do not want to significantly raise
taxes because we want to build the Cadillac with all the bells and whistles on it. Let
us just build a Toyota or something like that. We put a lot of money into the brand
new Lihu`e Police Department facility and I feel like Kapa'a is not very far away. If
we really need to do intensive police work, we can just drive over to Lihu`e, get the
work done, and do the bare minimum things at Kapa`a. Is that possible?
Mr. Perry: Well, we are looking for future growth right
now, and according to the assessment that was done, the architects and the experts
say we need a substation out there. I believe that is the appropriate way to go, but I
do understand the cost. We were hopeful that the Mayor would have put us in the
Holo Holo 2020, but we were not included in that. We have to go out and solicit, "we"
meaning the Police Department, have to go out and ask for Council's and community's
help. It is not for Darryl Perry. It is for the community. Every year since I have been
here, we have been trying to "sell ourselves," for lack of a better term, to say that we
are not looking for today or tomorrow, but we are looking down the line. Eventually,
the cost is going to be so out of sight that we will not get anything.
Councilmember Kagawa: I understand, Chief Perry. If we can, I would
ask that you go and look at some other sites, maybe not Pahoa, but something else
that could fit our needs for now that would significantly cut the eleven million six
hundred thousand dollars ($11,600,000). I think that would be another option for the
Council to look at and get this thing going because it is obviously a need. It would
open up many possibilities for the community to get both facilities and service both
seniors and youth at a better level of service, and also for you folks to have something
that is not another building to use, but your own that fits your needs. But I would
definitely say that eleven million six hundred thousand dollars ($11,600,000) at this
time would make it really tough to get going.
Mr. Perry: Right. We could down-size it. It would be no
problem.
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you. Thank you, Council Chair
Rapozo.
COUNCIL MEETING 28 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions? Chief Perry,
was the relocation to the neighborhood center your request?
Mr. Perry: No.
Council Chair Rapozo: It was not your request?
Mr. Perry: No, it was not our request.
Council Chair Rapozo: How much bells and whistles does the eleven
million six hundred thousand dollars ($11,600,000) include?
Mr. Perry: Actually, it is the basics right now.
Council Chair Rapozo: Right, and it is probably another one million
dollars ($1,000,000) or so because this was done two (2) years ago, right?
Mr. Perry: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: I am not sure if the Department or the County
is eligible for any type of grants. Do you know of any types of grants outside for
construction?
Mr. Perry: We are doing the research now and we are
also reaching out on the State level to see if we can get assistance.
Council Chair Rapozo: The discussion with Mahelona Medical
Center started in 2010, is that correct?
Mr. Perry: It was about the time that we got the lease for
our youth center. We were talking with the CEO, Jerry Walker, at that time. I
believe it was about that time.
Council Chair Rapozo: When did you get here?
Mr. Perry: October 2007.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Since then aside from you doing a
couple of studies, has there been any movement on moving up to Mahelona Medical
Center?
Mr. Perry: There has been no movement at all.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Are there any other questions? If not,
thank you, Chief Perry. We might call you back up, I am not sure, unless you have
to leave, we understand. Okay. You are the Chief.
COUNCIL MEETING 29 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Mr. Perry: But if you do have any more questions, please
send the communication over, and I will be happy to answer.
Council Chair Rapozo: Well, thank you. I know you are a busy
person. Thank you for being here. With that, can we have the first registered
speaker?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The first registered speaker is Bill Peterson,
followed by Wilma Chandler.
BILL PETERSON: Good morning and thank you for giving me
the opportunity to speak. It looks like most of my concerns have already been
resolved. My name is Bill Peterson. I am a resident of Kapa`a and a frequent user
of the existing Kapa'a Neighborhood Center. I do want to say that I think the
potential of the armory as a sports complex in Kapa'a is immense. I think it would
be a great facility for Kapa`a and for the youth for their sports programs. The location
is good for them, but I do believe we do need to retain our existing Kapa'a
Neighborhood Center. As I mentioned in the communications I have sent, I do not
believe that the Kapa'a Neighborhood Center would be an appropriate location for
the KPD substation. That seems to be a dead issue. The last thing you want to do
when you have a tsunami hit the island is have it basically wipe out the
first-responders' emergency supplies, their communication, and their command and
control centers. So hopefully that is off the table. Other than that, I want to say that
I think the sports center is a good idea. I want to thank Lenny and the
Administration for rethinking that process and going back to the table on it. I do
want to say that when it was first presented to the community, it certainly came
across not with the phase "done-deal," but the process was more like how do we make
this work? The question was not whether, it was how, and that is what got most of
the community up in arms. It was really was communication issue. As I think the
Council has made very clear, that is an issue that should be addressed in terms of
how we do communications with the community. I want to thank you for the
opportunity to speak, and thank you for giving us your consideration.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Wilma Chandler, followed
by Anne Punohu.
WILMA CHANDLER: Good morning, Councilmembers.
Council Chair Rapozo: Good morning.
Ms. Chandler: I am Wilma Chandler. I represent Kapa'a
Senior Center. Mr. Rapozo answered many of the questions today. We were
primarily involved at the very beginning because of the fact that we thought we were
going to move. We wanted to let you know that the seniors were very adamant about
not moving from that site because as a senior, a kupuna, you have very few things
that you have left in life. The scenery that we have and the path there is very
COUNCIL MEETING 30 OCTOBER 5, 2016
beautiful for us, especially the ocean. We also did not especially care for the idea that
we would be moving to the armory. There were too many things involved for us, the
seniors, the walking was very difficult and so on. However, we do agree with
Mr. Rapozo in acquiring that place and providing it for the youth. Then, it became
that if they took that, then the Police Department came by, and we think that the
Police Department should have their own substation away from the flood zone and
the tsunami zone, which has been taken care of with the new ideas. I think being
involved early on has kind of brought this in. Thank you very much for letting us let
you know what our thoughts are from the Kapa'a Senior Center.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Anne Punohu, followed by
Matt Bernabe.
ANNE PUNOHU: Aloha. My name is Anne Punohu and I am
here to speak on this issue. I would like to echo the sentiments of the past two (2)
speakers. Councilmember Kagawa, when you are a Councilmember and you are
asked several questions when you run for public office, how will you prioritize the
budget of the Council? I think the first priority of the budget of any Council should
be the first responders. I think that spending money for facilities should be
prioritized for first responders at the top of the list, public safety. We have heard
from the Chief of Police, and I agree with him. I think he has the right idea about
the substation being out of the tsunami zone. I think that is really important. As we
have mentioned before, this is our largest population. I can remember back in the
day, there was this little tiny thing right there down by the beach and we always
thought that was kind of funny. I think that our Police Department deserves a proper
permanent home. As a community member, I do not like to see our police shuffled
around like this. Not only is it not good for the morale of the police themselves and
the Department, but I do not think it is good for the community because we do not
know where it is. We do not know where to go. We get confused. It is here one (1)
year and then it is somewhere else later.
As far as the seniors go, I absolutely disagree with moving the seniors
anywhere else, but that facility. It is important mentally and emotionally for the
seniors to have that center; however, I personally would like to see that center utilized
better for more services for seniors. I am going to be technically a senior next year,
not that I am going to agree I am a senior, but I will be fifty-five (55) next year and
looking forward to using the opportunities that I will have as a senior at the senior
centers all over the island. That is another point. People outside of Kapa'a utilize
the senior center there. I would like to see the services used better.
As far as using the facilities of the armory for what they have proposed, I think
that is a fantastic idea. My kids went to Summer Fun in Kapa'a at the senior center
down there and I thought they needed more room. I know that there is a lot more
population planned for the next few years, and so we can only see a population
increase in Kapa`a, rather than a population decrease. I think that utilizing facilities
in better way and enlarging the services is extremely important. That goes for the
COUNCIL MEETING 31 OCTOBER 5, 2016
police too. Our senior population will be increasing as well, too. I believe that our
seniors, our kupuna, deserve a place that is special and important to them, that
relaxing to them, and away from the kids.
Council Chair Rapozo: Anne, I have to stop you there.
Ms. Punohu: Okay. Mahalo. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Who is the next registered speaker?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Matt Bernabe.
MATTHEW BERNABE: Matt Bernabe, for the record. Good morning
everybody. On the straight swap issue, I am a little confused. The seniors do not
want to move, the police do not want to be there, so why is the Administration forcing
it? On the other issue of the eastside substation, I would like to ask if the bare
minimums include a cell because we are not that far from Lihu`e. As far as I see it,
they have mobile command units and when I hear rhetoric of "we need command
centers," the main command center is Lihu`e. It is a big command center. I am like,
"Wait a minute. We do not need an eleven million dollar ($11,000,000) structure so
that they can drink coffee, eat their doughnuts in between calls, and maybe do some
reports in between." We do not need cells. They are so close to Lihu`e. I think we
should leave it there. The only thing that I could say negative against the current
neighborhood center site because I just used it with my daughter since we had a
fundraiser for the school, is parking. That is the only negative that I can think of the
current site. When it is booming and busy; parking is an issue. Other than that, I
think it should stay where it is if that is what the seniors wanted. I like it there, too,
because it is right next to the bike path. Realistically, not every tourist wants to be
walking and riding their bike past the police substation. Some might feel safe, but
not everyone, especially our foreign visitors that are not from America and are not
American. They are not going to want to see the police substation right there. I think
that we should put it by Mahelona Medical Center and work harder to get it cheaper,
even two million dollars ($2,000,000). Tell them to build the structure and get it done.
Thank you.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The last registered speaker is Allen Kapali.
ALLEN KAPALI: Aloha Council. My name is Allen Kapali. I
just wanted to say thank you and mahalo for all of the efforts you put forth for the
community to know what is going on in Kapa`a. I want to commend Lenny for his
efforts in obtaining the armory for the community. I just want to echo everything
that people said about the use of the neighborhood center for the seniors. I have been
using that facility and that is someplace that is already sacred to me. It has been
established for the seniors. There has been testimony about hula being performed
there where they are going outside to the ocean, receiving the energy and everything.
So it is a place that should be kept for the seniors. The idea of the armory being a
center for the youth is perfect. It is perfect for the youth. With regards to the question
about police facilities, has there been any thought of renting a building? There is an
eight thousand (8,000) square foot building right next to Foodland. It is two
COUNCIL MEETING 32 OCTOBER 5, 2016
dollars ($2) a square foot. Eight thousand (8,000) square feet. How much space does
the police need for their facility? Anyway, that is all I have to say.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Anyone else wishing to testify?
Mr. Mickens.
GLENN MICKENS: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. For the
record, Glenn Mickens. These are my thoughts on this whole project, first, the
community was not properly told about this project and thus the confusion. Many of
the concerned users of the center here today is proof of improper notification. Council
Chair Rapozo made the point and not only this project, but the inability of the
Administration to tell the Council and the public what is going to happen with their
input first and not after the fact. Two, ideally the place for the police facility, as Chief
Perry just said,is up by Mahelona Medical Center or thereabout, out of tsunami and
flood zone. Cost for a proper facility will always be a concern, but a proper facility for
our police is top priority. Three, the neighborhood center is an ideal place for our
seniors. All who use it, love it. Leave it alone, but secure the armory for a multi-use
facility; basketball, volleyball, and many other uses as Councilmember Kagawa said.
The neighborhood center is terrible for community meetings, as was obvious the other
night. Council Chair Rapozo, you saw that more than everybody. I think you tried
to stop the horn-blowing outside, but it is the wrong place for it. Secure the armory
down there and use it for a multi-use purpose. Even down at the neighborhood center,
you do not have a raised thing. Half of the people are sitting down and if you were in
the back, you could not even see the participants. But if you have a stage like they
have at the other facilities, that would be help. Those are my thoughts and it is going
to be a matter of money, I can see it now. Build the police facility and how many bells
and whistles they have on it is going to be speculated, but it is going to have to be
built. The police need a police station. Thank you.
KEN TAYLOR: Council Chair Rapozo and Members of the
Council, my name is Ken Taylor. This has been a really sad situation for the
community because of the so-called lack of time. Long-range planning is an
important part of any community and obviously, the Mayor and his team has not done
a very good job of long-range planning. We have a community plan activity that was
going on in Kapa`a for over ten (10) years, which has totally gone down the drain at
this point in time, which is unfortunate. We have a situation with spotting a new
police station in Kapa'a that has been going on at least since 2010, and we have no
site in place at this point in time. We do not have a problem building fire stations in
Kapa`a, but the Administration does not have time to notify you or the community as
to what is going on, but now we can spend lots and lots of time and effort trying to
put the fires out, and it is really sad. I know sometimes things come up in a hurry
and decisions have to be made, but that is when politicians and decision-makers need
to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. It is important to be able to deal
with these kinds of issues when they come up in a timely manner and a proper
manner so that the community and the Council knows what is going on. One (1) of
the problems we have with government here on Kauai is that, in essence, we have
two (2) governments; we have one (1) across the street that does not like to share
everything with this part of the government. Instead of working together as one (1),
COUNCIL MEETING 33 OCTOBER 5, 2016
we sort of each go in our own direction and do not pay attention until these community
problems come up and hit us in the face. It is really sad. The issue that is before us
to move the community center is a good idea, but it does not sound like the community
center was going to be the community center when they talk about having a youth
sports facility. There are some real issues behind-the-scenes that I do not
understand, and we will talk about that more.
Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else wishing to testify?
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there further discussion? Councilmember
Chock.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. I just
wanted to share or echo some of what the testimony that was said this morning. I
was able to attend the meeting that we had at the armory, and the dissatisfaction
with the move from the kupuna was palpable. I do appreciate Mr. Rapozo's vision for
acquiring the site. They say no good deed goes unpunished, so it is a long road to
engage the community and to set sights on how it should be best used. I do like the
ideas that have come forth from some of the speakers today of the youth center or
sports center for the armory. I recognize the need for our Kaua`i Police Department
has been overdue, which really kind of brings to light sort of what I keep harping on,
which is the need for shared priorities and having that kind of opportunity for the
Administration and the Council to continue to seek what is important and what we
should be focusing on. We had one (1) meeting at the beginning of our term, this past
term, but I do not think it was quite enough. I hope that if anything, that does
continue because that is where communication starts to go to the wayside and it
would have been really nice, I think, for us as a Council, to get a head's up on the
direction that we were looking for this vision. I do also appreciate and want to
acknowledge that I think the problem-solving for a site for the KPD, while it is
probably in the tsunami zone, too, but looking at empty commercial space. I think
that is something that we should be looking at as well. We have to best utilize our
space. We are on a small island. With that, I hope and I look forward to having that
priority discussion. Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo.
Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else? Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. Although
this came out as a contentious item, I look at this as a successful day. We have an
opportunity to gain something for the community. We can gain a better facility for
the seniors. I think the facility that we have can actually be truly called the Kapa`a
Senior Center. We can make improvements that would just benefit seniors in the
future. The armory site can be the Kapa'a Neighborhood Center where we can hold
events and functions like the forum like Matt talked about that we recently had that
can be a better venue to hold such events. We can also take care of our youth in a
better way going forward. I look at this as a great opportunity, but how do we do it
as soon as possible? I think that is why I asked the questions that I did. It is not to
COUNCIL MEETING 34 OCTOBER 5, 2016
say that I do not believe the Kaua`i Police Department should have the best facility
possible at eleven million six hundred thousand dollars ($11,600,000). I am saying
that with our budget constraints now, how do we make this happen as soon as
possible? I think if the Kaua`i Police Department can come back and work with this
body that has to deal with the budget and the priorities, come back with the bare
minimums, but yet have it built so that when we do have funding in the future, we
can expand it to have the eleven million six hundred thousand dollar ($11,600,000)
structure that fits all of the needs of the future. That is my question and hopefully I
can work together with Chief Perry. If we can get the price down a bit, I think we
can make it happen soon. The sooner we can make this improvement, the better. I
value the seniors. I am not far away from being a senior, but I think it is the seniors
who have made Kauai what it is. I think every neighborhood center is referred to as
a senior center. In Kekaha, we call it the Kekaha Senior Center. In Hanapepe, we
call it the Hanapepe Senior Center. That is because it is a wonderful place that the
community values our seniors. We want them to have a wonderful place to enjoy
their retirement, keep active, and keep the fellowship that they have to enjoy the
wonderful years that they deserve, being retired and enjoying life. Again, I think
sharing it would actually be a downgrade for the seniors. They obviously do not want
it, and I think we need to listen. As the lawmakers, we need to listen to the needs of
the community and get more win-wins out there. I commend Lenny. He has done a
great job. In his years as the Director of Parks & Recreation, he has done many things
including large improvements. Look at Hanapepe Stadium and the kind of things
that they are doing there. They are taking the problem, addressing it, and fixing it.
He is a doer. We need more doers leading our County. I commend Lenny for the job
he has done. Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: I am glad we had this meeting. We just saw
early on that there was small little miscommunication on what the intent of the
meeting and the intent of the gathering was. You can see how maybe a meeting that
says, "These are opportunity. What is the community input?" Maybe there was a
miscommunication of"this is what we are going to do." You can see how far off the
meetings can go as "this is what we are going to do" and "this is all of the opposition
you are going to get." Right here in the room, you see the ideas that everybody is kind
of more on the same page of saying, "Let us keep the senior activities where they are,
let us move to pursue the State area and have the kids' activities there, and then of
course, let us look at relocating KPD somewhere else." You can see how that small
little misperception completely avalanches in the wrong way. I am glad we had the
opportunity to talk about it. I think Bill Peterson sent an E-mail a few months ago
on it and I was confused because I did not see anything in the budget on it. I
questioned how they were going to do it when we did not have it in budget
presentations and I did not see any money for it. I am glad we are able to clear it up
now. I am glad Lenny is looking at the opportunities on hand. Maybe it was just that
initial miscommunication that this is an opportunities we have, what would the
community like, and what is the community input on it? I am glad we had this
meeting. I am sure they will still meet on it as far as what we can do. We are still
pursuing this building. What can we do here? I think meetings will be a lot more
COUNCIL MEETING 35 OCTOBER 5, 2016
positive. Of course, always bring it to Council. It is probably a fifty percent (50%)
chance. Lenny could have brought it in very early in the process and then we would
probably have a lot of questions with him saying, "No, this is just the initial stages
opportunities. I am just trying to get out there." Community input is important. You
see it on Waikomo Road and you see it here. I am glad it is here on the table. Maybe
it could have come up a little earlier, but I think from now on, the discussion will
move in a more positive direction. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Hooser.
Councilmember Hooser: I want to thank Councilmember Chock and
Councilmember Yukimura who I think initiated the agenda item, I believe, you said
earlier. Thank you for putting this on the agenda and be responsive to the
community. I think it shows how government works well sometimes. When there
are concerns, talk to your Councilmembers, then we can have a robust discussion,
and now it looks like the concerns are resolved, at least initially. I think it is also
important to remember the neighborhood centers are neighborhood centers and as
much as the most powerful active segment is the seniors, the kapuna, my wife and I
walk on the coastal path there often and we see Zumba, other exercises, and other
activities going on. It is used by all ages and all people of all walks of life. We need
to make sure that we have a place for all of that activity to continue as we move
forward, which there is no doubt that we will not.
My final thought is regarding the police. I may be wrong, but I believe the
Kawaihau District is the largest population center in the entire County. It makes me
think that the police there has been treated like second-class citizen. They are in a
shack by the Kapa'a Beach Park and now they are shuttled around here and there. I
think it is time that this County recognize the importance of establishing a proper
police substation for the Kawaihau District in a place that is not in a flood zone, not
in a tsunami zone, and accommodates the needs of this growing community. I want
to emphasize "growing." While I share the concerns about spending too much and we
do not need a Cadillac, I happen to own two (2) Toyotas that I am very happy with.
Both of them are over fifteen (15) to twenty (20) years old. I do not know. They have
one hundred something thousand miles on them. We need adequate facilities built
to last. We cannot short change ourselves too much and wind up immediately with
something that is not big enough to sustain growth. With the increasing technology,
increasing needs, and changing of the world, we need to make sure that we provide a
facility that works for them. I would love to be part of that conversation moving
forward. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: I want to thank the community, especially the
seniors and others who have come forth. Once again, the community, like with
Waikomo Road, has put the County back on the right track. I think we all can see
and understand the potential of the armory for parks and recreational use. It almost
seems destined to be part of that complex over there. It is a very logical move. So
securing that site for the County makes a lot of sense, and I want to acknowledge
COUNCIL MEETING 36 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Lenny for his initiative and vision in that. But the plan to move the police to the
neighborhood center was really premature and it is not needed. We do not need that
plan in order to secure the armory for the County. I am glad that we are looking at
it and, in fact, today has been a good session in terms of getting clearer about maybe
what the solutions are and maybe keeping both the existing neighborhood center or
what people are calling the "senior center," securing the armory for parks and
recreation, and finding another and better site for the Kawaihau substation, which I
agree is really needed, especially as we look at the future and how that area is
growing. I like the out-of-the box thinking of Mr. Kapali that we possibly look at some
commercial space and repurposing some empty commercial spaces because we have
quite a bit of that, both in Lihu'e and Kapa'a. Even though we might not end up with
that, we should really look at that as an alternative. Thank you, all, for the effort
here. I think it is a good example of good collective problem solving.
Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else? I will just say that Lenny did
his job for the Department of Parks & Recreation in seeking more opportunities. I
applaud him for that, but what is disturbing is the prioritization of what this island
needs. What I heard today was we are going to move forward on these recreation
items, not that it is not important, but as soon as I talked about most to Mahelona
Medical Center for the police station, oh, no, we do not have any money. That is a
priority and money issue. I think what Councilmember Hooser said is right on target.
He said exactly what I was thinking. We have been treating our Police Department
like second-class citizens. Get an unpermitted trailer as your substation. Yet, when
we do not get the performance that we expect out of the police, we hammer them. We
blame them and say that they are dirty, corrupt, lazy, and so on. Mr. Bernabe, you
are my good friend, but they do not just eat doughnuts and drink coffee, seriously. If
you wanted to go and build a little shack for them in Kapa'a, a police officer that has
case and he has to drive all the way to Lihu`e to do something and then drive all the
way back, that officer is out of service for an hour and a half or two (2) hours. So your
complaint is three (3) hours before the cop comes and then you blame the cop. We
have been talking this talk for a long time. Protect and serve, law enforcement, public
health, and public safety. How many fire stations have been built in the last
twenty (20) years? How many police stations have been built? How many new
firemen are there? Trust me, I support every single one of those increases, because
we need firemen, but we need policemen, too. Back in the 1980s, we had eight (8)
cops on beat and now we have ten (10). We have more people in the Mayor's Office
and in this Council Office than we do on the street protecting you. We see it every
day and try to find blame of why they cannot do it, why they do this, or why they do
that. The media blasts them. Ten (10), six (6), or seven (7) years ago we started the
discussion on the alternate site at Mahelona Medical Center. Since then, we have
done nothing. Chief Perry has tried to do what he has to do—do studies, but the
Administration has done nothing move that forward. Thirteen million
dollars ($13,000,000), eight million dollars ($8,000,000), or two million
dollars ($2,000,000), County match for the Transportation Investment Generating
Economic Revenue (TIGER) grant is not a problem. Let us put our energy in that.
Let us get that done because that is a priority. Safe Routes to School in Koloa, that
is a priority. Police, no, we cannot—the thought of helping our public safety. That is
what I heard today, that all of a sudden, let us build the sports complex over...look at
COUNCIL MEETING 37 OCTOBER 5, 2016
it collectively. How much we have spent on the sports complex in Kapa`a? Trust me,
I am a sports person. I love sports, but I also love cops. I also like my public safety.
To think that we are going stuff them in a box somewhere just so they have a place
to go? Oh, man. That is what I heard today and that is disturbing. Have we put the
energies in that area of government, public safety? We have done a great job with
the Fire Department and I applaud them. They do a great job for us. But have we
done the same for the Police Department? No, we have not. We got the land. It is a
fifty (50) year lease. The lease is going to run out before we break ground if we keep
on this track. "Police, we are going to move you and you are going to share. You are
going to share your facility with someone." It is a police station. What other
jurisdiction does that? Move the station down to the neighborhood center? What is
going happen on it the bike path and you have to use the bathroom? You have to use
the blue box because that is now a police station. You cannot go in the police station
to use the bathroom. I am obviously frustrated because I applaud what the attempt
is. I am all for securing the armory. I think we can do great things. As Lenny talked
about Summer Fun and the community parties, renting or getting a place for a
function would be super. But as I asked about the priority list in the Administration,
where is the police? Are they even on that list? That whole Mahelona Medical Center
thing was an effort that the Chief of Police did. He came to us and said, "Please," but
now what? We have acres and we have a lease, but you folks are going to work out of
a box or you go share with someone. My time is up. Thank you. With that, the
motion is to receive.
The motion to receive C 2016-207 for the record was then put, and carried by
a vote of 6:0:1 (Councilmember Kualii was excused).
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Let us take our caption
break.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 10:25 a.m.
The meeting reconvened at 10:40 a.m., and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Next item, please.
C 2016-208 Communication (09/23/2016) from the Director of Parks &
Recreation, requesting agenda time to provide the Council with an update relating to
parking on the beach at Black Pot Beach Park: Councilmember Kaneshiro moved to
receive C 2016-208 for the record, seconded by Councilmember Chock.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much. With that, I will
suspend the rules with no objections. Mr. Rapozo.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you. For the record, Director of Parks
& Recreation, Lenny Rapozo. What I wanted to do is have this discussion on the open
floor with the Council. As we are moving to finish the master plan for the Black Pot
COUNCIL MEETING 38 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Beach Park area, I wanted to have a discussion as to the Council's feelings about
parking on the beach and have an open discussion. As you know, we came one (1)
time with the consultants and during the briefing, we had talked about the Hawai`i
Administrative Rules (HAR) and County's Ordinance of parking on the beach. So we
wanted to continue this discussion and get this Council's input on that portion of
Black Pot Beach Park that traditionally has had parking on the beach as we try to
close out the finishing of the master plan. That is where we are and that is what my
request was for this body.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: Lenny, can you tell us more about some of the
options that were brought up with the community meetings? We talked a little bit
with Mauna Kea about the turnaround; having drop-off opportunities. How does that
work into the proposed plan, if at all? How could it work with the plan?
Mr. Rapozo: We are taking input from everyone relating to
the parking on the beach. As it stands in Hawai`i Administrative Rules, you can drive
on the beach to drop-off anything to do with fishing, picnicking, and camping. What
is not clear is when that period ends, meaning you can transport, but that is what is
not clear. Ordinance No. 386 is similar in writing and the Police have also opinioned
that it is hard for them to enforce because of the period of transfer. In Hawai`i Revised
Statutes (HRS) 19-1.4 under General Prohibitions Applicable to All Parks and
Recreation Facilities, it is illegal to drive a motor vehicle in a park facility without
being permitted by the Director of Parks & Recreation, in that case. In this particular
case, we have now learned that when the portion of property adjacent to Black Pot
Beach Park was by EO to the County, it was by EO to the County for park and
recreational purposes, so that technically belongs to the park as opposed to being
classified as a beach, which brings up options as far as being allowed to drive on or
being allowed on as part of the park. So those are the options.
Councilmember Chock: I have a follow-up. How far of a walk is it from
the proposed parking lot to the beach for people to carry their ukana?
Mr. Rapozo: In reference to what is configured in some of
the current conceptual plans, it would probably be the distance from where the
current parking is to the beach.
Councilmember Chock: So it is about the same?
Mr. Rapozo: Yes, it is about the same.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Hooser.
Councilmember Hooser: Just to kind of restate, because it is
considered a park and not a beach, the State and County Ordinances or laws do not
COUNCIL MEETING 39 OCTOBER 5, 2016
apply, but the park law applies that you cannot drive in a park without a permit. Is
that correct?
Mr. Rapozo: Yes. I think for the past something years,
once it became part of the County back...I am not sure the exact date, but perhaps in
the 1990s, we assumed it to be a beach, which it is. It is a beach, but in reality, when
we did further research as part of this process, it looks like that it was by EO to the
County for park purposes. So it has been attached to the park and therefore,
HRS 19-1.4 relating to general prohibitions, seems to apply.
Councilmember Hooser: If the County wanted to, they could legally
allow parking in that area?
Mr. Rapozo: Yes.
Councilmember Hooser: There could be a blanket permit of some sort?
Mr. Rapozo: Yes.
Councilmember Hooser: If they wanted to.
Mr. Rapozo: Yes.
Councilmember Hooser: So it is not contrary to State law, and we have
the ability to do that?
Mr. Rapozo: Yes.
Councilmember Hooser: Okay. As we all know, there is a long
tradition of parking and a lot of fond memories of people parking there, and change
is difficult. It is my understanding that the primary concerns or primary reasons not
to allow parking would be because of congestion...
Mr. Rapozo: Yes.
Councilmember Hooser: ...and possibly environmental impacts with
the cars on the sand.
Mr. Rapozo: Yes.
Councilmember Hooser: A lot of places around the world allow parking
on the beach. I know they allow parking on beaches in many place in Florida. Has
there been any studies or any information as to the degree of negative environmental
impacts, for example? Do we really know the degree of oil, or gas, or whatever that
is seeping into the ocean?
Mr. Rapozo: We added this element to the consultant, so
there is an ongoing study, but those results have not been made available yet.
COUNCIL MEETING 40 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Councilmember Hooser: Okay.
Mr. Rapozo: Today's purpose was just for general feedback
from this body relating to their feelings as to whether we should allow parking, no
parking, some parking, and to just have an open discussion regarding that.
Councilmember Hooser: Okay. It seems like the degree of
environmental impacts would be a big factor in making that conclusion, whether to
have parking, how much parking to have, and whether there is opportunities to
mitigate those impacts. So, it is going to be hard to make a decision without knowing
those. The congestion part could possibly be mitigated by restricting it to local traffic
only or certain hours of the day and that kind of thing.
Mr. Rapozo: Yes, we can come up with some criteria, if we
want.
Councilmember Hooser: Okay.
Mr. Rapozo: When I first got my license back in 1980, I do
not want to date myself...why not, 1980. I got my license and during first time down
there, I parked and hung out with my uncles in Hanalei. It was an understanding
that they told me, "Boy, you park up against the park. The beach is for the people.
If it did not have parking there, you go find somewhere else to park." Today, that
does not apply. We have people are parking all over the place, so it becomes an issue
and that is why we have had community input and I wanted to get this body's input
what the general feeling is. There could be seven (7) different feelings or there could
be seven (7) consensus feelings. I do not know, so that is why I asked for this agenda
time to answer questions and to just hear your feedback.
Councilmember Hooser: So there might be opportunity for middle
ground to manage it better, but not prohibit it, depending on what environmental
impacts may be?
Mr. Rapozo: That could be your criteria as to what your
view of parking on the beach would be.
Councilmember Hooser: Yes. I think in terms of managing congestion,
for example, if there is too many people and they are loud, drinking, and carrying on,
then those issues can be addressed through rules, if you would. Depending on the
degree of environmental concerns, I think it is likely those could be addressed also.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay.
Councilmember Hooser: So that would be my goal, to look at how we
address the impacts and mitigate those impacts without taking away something that
a lot of people have enjoyed for many years. Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING 41 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Council Chair Rapozo: Before we get to you, Councilmember
Kagawa, I want to be clear on one (1) thing, does the Executive Order from the State
that include the upper reach of the water?
MAUNA KEA TRASK, County Attorney: For the record, Mauna Kea
Trask, County Attorney. Yes, it is Executive Order No. 4227.
Council Chair Rapozo: Do we have a copy of that?
Mr. Trask: You should have a copy. What it does is if you
look mahai of the Hanalei Pier, if you go towards the river mouth so the beach
bordering the Hanalei Pier on the river mouth side, wrapping around the corner and
coming down to Weke Road, the sandy area was all by EO to the County, for, I believe
the phrase is "public park purposes." Therefore, that makes it encumbered land.
HAR 13-221-26 only applies to State unencumbered lands. Given that it was given
to the County, it becomes encumbered, so the HAR would not apply. Then, you would
go to Kaua`i County Code Chapter 22, Article 12 regarding Use of Motor Vehicles. If
you read that body of laws, the intent was "to prevent persons from using beaches of
the County of Kaua`i as race tracks for motor vehicles" and this was passed
June 9, 1980. If you remember growing up, cars used to fly up and down the beach.
I remember as a kid, in front of Kekaha in the park facility there, trucks used to go
up and down all of the time.
Council Chair Rapozo: They are still doing that on the west side.
Mr. Trask: Yes, where there is beach, right?
Council Chair Rapozo: Well, there is a lot of beach.
Mr. Trask: In speaking about this, as Mr. Rapozo said,
there is no temporal limitations. So the Article is not meant to prevent people from
driving motor vehicles on beaches, it is "to transport people or supplies for picnicking,
fishing, camping, or swimming." In speaking how that is interpreted by KPD, they
are saying, "Well, it does not have a temporal limitation. If they are transporting
effectively, if you have fishing poles or your aunty is sitting in the car, then you can
park. It is transporting." So this may be an opportunity to look at your options and
what you have. If you want to revisit the Ordinance, Section 22-12.1 through
Section 22-12.4, that may be a good opportunity to refine it so it is clearer because
apparently it is ambiguous to some people.
Council Chair Rapozo: The definition of "beach" is very clear, right?
It is up to the high watermark, basically. That is the definition of a "beach." What
you are saying is because of EO, the beach in Hanalei or Hanalei Bay, is a park.
Mr. Trask: Yes, it is still a beach.
Council Chair Rapozo: Right.
COUNCIL MEETING 42 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Mr. Trask: But it is part of the park.
Council Chair Rapozo: Right, that is my point. I think the beach is
still the beach, and the park can contain a beach.
Mr. Trask: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: So driving on the beach would still apply.
Mr. Trask: Correct.
Council Chair Rapozo: It may not be HAR, but in the Kaua`i County
Code.
Mr. Trask: In the Kaua`i County Code. I guess what I am
saying is that there is an opportunity for you to further specify what the policy is
within the Code because apparently...
Council Chair Rapozo: We could do that, but if you look at the
legislative intent back when that was passed, it was simply allow fishermen to go
down, drop off their things, and get off the beach. It was not to wait for aunty or keep
aunty in the car. It was to get the car, drop the things off, and be off.
Mr. Trask: It was to stop racing, that was the intent, but
it was not meant to stop the transport.
Council Chair Rapozo: Correct.
Mr. Trask: So if the policy is we should put "transport,
drop-off, and leave no more than a certain period of time," because that is what the
enforcement arm is having difficulty with, and that is what I am saying. If you want
to make that clearer to help the enforcement, the Park Rangers and KPD, that is
what you want to do.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. My question was really that it does not
change the definition of beach. It does not change a beach to a park, it just basically...
Mr. Rapozo: The jurisdictional part.
Council Chair Rapozo: Right, that is the only part that changed.
Mr. Rapozo: And therefore, with the jurisdictional part in
HRS 19-1.4, General Prohibitions Applicable to All Parks and Recreation Facilities,
"(9) Drive or park motorized vehicles, including dune buggies, motorcycles,
minicycles, ad scooters, or ride horse, except on designate roads and parking areas,
unless authorizes by the County Engineer or designated representative," in this case
it would be the Director of Parks & Recreation, "by signage or on a permit." In this
COUNCIL MEETING 43 OCTOBER 5, 2016
section, no person at a park or a recreational facility shall, so they shall not. You are
not to drive what I just mentioned without a permit.
Council Chair Rapozo: Right.
Mr. Rapozo: In this particular instance, fronting Black Pot
Beach Park from the pier this way as Mauna Kea described, we have an opportunity
where we can somewhat part of the park, all of the park, none of the park, some
vehicles, or no vehicles. I wanted to facilitate discussion to get a general feel from
this body.
Council Chair Rapozo: What is your recommendation or are you not
there yet?
Mr. Rapozo: We are not there yet. We wanted to get
feedback from everyone.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay.
Mr. Rapozo: But what Mauna Kea is saying though, is that
in Section 22-12, you could fine tune that for every County beach.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, I hear you.
Mr. Trask: And just to that, too, Article 12 was passed in
1980, as I said. If you look at end of Article 12.1, it says, "this Article is also intended
to serve as an interim control until such time that the State DLNR formulate and
implements appropriate rules and regulations governing this subject." Typically as
the County does, there is a gap, so the County goes fills it. There is very little County
beaches. At that time, Black Pot Beach Park was not even encumbered or EOed to
the County. I do not know if anything was. The HARs that we referred to as the
State prohibition, was in 1988. So right now, the State has rules for all County
beaches that are unencumbered, that is State beaches, and the jurisdictional rule
would apply to those. This County one has been about thirty-six (36) years at this
point, and it looks like it is a good opportunity to update it. That is all.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Councilmember Kagawa and then
Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Kagawa: I want to take a look at the map. I know there
are two (2) conceptual plans. We will just look at the first one. The first you one
allows for more parking nearest to the beach area. The second one would allow for
more parking away from the beach area. We will just look at the first one and Lenny,
if you could use the pointer. You are here today because you are asking us if after all
of these additional parking spaces are improved, how we should treat parking at the
beach. Is that the question?
COUNCIL MEETING 44 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Mr. Rapozo: No. In general, my question is how does this
body feel about parking on the beach here, whether it is this concept plan or the other
concept plan, what is the feeling? We have been going out to the community and it is
not based upon any conceptual plan. The question is, how do you feel about parking
on the beach?
Councilmember Kagawa: How much parking stalls do we have right
now? Is it about ten (10) or twenty (20)?
Mr. Rapozo: I think about fifteen (15) to twenty (20).
Councilmember Kagawa: Fifteen (15) to twenty (20), so it makes a big
difference between now and later because right now when we put this plan into place,
you will get way more than fifteen (15) to twenty (20) parking spaces.
Mr. Rapozo: Yes.
Councilmember Kagawa: I think the general feeling is that it is hard for
us to disallow parking on the beach area now when there is no other opportunities to
park.
Mr. Rapozo: You are right, and is why our Department has
not made that determination. If we were to close it off, where are they going?
Councilmember Kagawa: Right.
Mr. Rapozo: But as we develop this plan and we have had
the input from the community, some different groups, and I wanted to include this
group, or this body, as part of that discussion.
Councilmember Kagawa: I would say if we have one of these plans,
Plan A or Plan B, adopted and you have all of these stalls, then you just block off the
access of the vehicles with a barrier or something, and treat Hanalei Beach as every
other beach. We do not allow cars to drive on Anini Beach or on Po`ipu Beach. There
are barriers that prevent that from happening. I would say from my perspective,
until we have the other options for parking, it is going to be kind of hard because
basically if you do not allow it, then you are almost closing off the beach to the public
without adequate parking stalls.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you, Councilmember Kagawa, that is
exactly the feedback I am looking for today.
Councilmember Kagawa: Okay.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you.
Councilmember Kagawa: Lenny, can you share a little bit about how far
out the rows of parking go on the map? I used to camp there every Labor Day in the
COUNCIL MEETING 45 OCTOBER 5, 2016
early 1980s and like you said, we used to only park nearest to the park as that was
the only row of cars allowed, and now when you go there, is it three (3) or four (4)
rows?
Mr. Rapozo: Yes.
Councilmember Kagawa: Do they actually go to the highest mark of the
water is?
Mr. Rapozo: Yes.
Councilmember Kagawa: If you can show with the pointer how far out
they go to the beach right now?
Mr. Rapozo: I have been there and it has been to the
water's edge.
Councilmember Kagawa: So the water's edge is where on a busy
weekend?
Mr. Rapozo: Yes.
Councilmember Kagawa: Do they go all the way around?
Mr. Rapozo: As much as they can get on the beach.
Councilmember Kagawa: Even around towards the river?
Mr. Rapozo: Yes.
Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Based on your description of the law, it is
illegal to park right now because nobody has a permit?
Mr. Rapozo: Correct.
Councilmember Yukimura: What are the safety issues that have come up?
I have heard about a person I know who came up to me said he was hit by a truck on
the beach backing up, and there is a greater concern for children who might be
running around that area who cannot be seen like an adult can.
Mr. Rapozo: I have been there with my kids and your
description is very accurate. We have been very lucky. I am not aware of anybody
being hurt. What you described are some of the risk factors, yes.
COUNCIL MEETING 46 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Councilmember Yukimura: How do we tolerate danger to safety of people?
Mr. Rapozo: Well, it is currently a traditional practice that
has been ongoing, and I hear your concerns.
Councilmember Yukimura: Are you calling it a traditional practice?
Mr. Rapozo: I can show you pictures from the 1950s where
people were parking on the beach. When I say "practice of people parking on the
beach," it goes back as far as I can remember. I have seen a picture of a jeep parked
there and the picture was dated 1950.
Councilmember Yukimura: What is the number of cars usually parked
there?
Mr. Rapozo: I think when the consultants came before this
body, they did the study and used Labor Day or the Fourth of July. I do not have that
here, but those numbers were provided to you along with the handouts. It was
significant. You just hit it on the head, Councilmember Yukimura, back then
compared to day, the number of cars in the area has greatly increased.
Councilmember Yukimura: Do you have that figure?
Mr. Rapozo: We have provided it in our briefing to you in
the study, but I do not have that with me today. I wanted to talk about what your
beliefs are.
Councilmember Yukimura: It is not just about our beliefs, it is about what
the facts are about the place in terms of safety, environmental impacts at current use,
and so forth. So it is sort of hard to give something off the top of your head and not
responsible if we do not actually know the implications of what we are recommending.
Mr. Rapozo: Alright. From my notes, when the
consultants came and it was provided to you, the counting of the cars that were taken
to develop the baseline was done over two (2) weekends, August 28th to 29th and
September 6th to September 7th, which is Labor Day, the maximum number of cars
counted was one hundred seventy-nine (179) of which ninety-five (95) cars were on
the beach.
Council Chair Rapozo: I am sorry. How many, Lenny?
Mr. Rapozo: I will read it again.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you.
Mr. Rapozo: The counts that were taken of cars and both
trailers parked on the beach, in the parking lot, and along Weke Road. The counts
COUNCIL MEETING 47 OCTOBER 5, 2016
were taken three (3) times per day. The maximum number counted was one hundred
seventy-nine (179) cars of which ninety-five (95) of them were on the beach.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Council Chair Rapozo: Ninety-five (95)?
Mr. Rapozo: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Thank you.
Councilmember Yukimura: So the total number of cars in the park at its
peak was one hundred seventy-nine (179)?
Mr. Rapozo: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: And the total cars on the beach at its peak was
ninety-five (95), almost one hundred (100) cars?
Mr. Rapozo: When it was one hundred seventy-nine (179),
ninety-five (95) of those cars were on the beach.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are you done for now?
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. So you say there is a study that is going
to show the environmental impacts of that?
Mr. Rapozo: If there are any, yes. We have asked to test
the sand.
Councilmember Yukimura: When is that due?
Mr. Rapozo: I believe it is going to be due at the end of the
year.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Hooser and then
Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Councilmember Hooser: So that was ninety-five (95) cars parked on
the beach including Labor Day weekend? I think you said Labor Day weekend was
part of it.
Mr. Rapozo: When the counts were taken, it was during
those two (2) time periods, which was Labor Day weekend as well.
Councilmember Hooser: Okay, and that was the high?
COUNCIL MEETING 48 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Mr. Rapozo: That was the high.
Councilmember Hooser: Okay. Labor Day weekend, which some
would argue is the busiest weekend of the year, there were ninety-five (95) cars on
the beach. Do you know what percentage of those cars were visitors and local
residents?
Mr. Rapozo: No, I do not.
Councilmember Hooser: Again, that would be good information to have
as well because I go back to, this is say a tradition that goes back before the 1950s or
whatever, and I do not believe we should just yank it, but rather, we should deal with
the impacts. If those impacts are too many cars, then the first thing might be to limit
it only to local residents. If it is loud parties at night, then maybe we should limit it
to certain hours, but not just to one day show up and what people have been doing
the last years or so is gone. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: Sorry, I found the answer. I was looking to
see how much parking was proposed with the different layouts that you folks have. I
found it. Plan A is one hundred thirty-four (134) parking plus eighty (80) overflow
parking stalls, which is two hundred fourteen (214) parking stalls; and Plan B is one
hundred fifty-right (158) stalls plus eighty (80) overflow, which is two hundred
thirty-eight (238). I found my answer.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions for Lenny? At
this point, we are basically just having a discussion and looking for Council input?
Mr. Rapozo: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Was there a second map?
Mr. Rapozo: He just showed Plan A.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay.
Mr. Rapozo: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. What is the community's input?
Mr. Rapozo: We still have two (2) more meetings. We have
another Community Advisory Committee (CAC) meeting and another focus group
meeting before we come to our final conclusion or our final plan. So everyone's input
will be taken into account.
COUNCIL MEETING 49 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Council Chair Rapozo: I agree with Councilmember Yukimura that
there is a huge concern of the public safety because of the kids running around in
that area. It is just an accident waiting to happen, but there is also an environmental
concern and 'I have not heard much. There is so much concern about what might
happen with a dairy and there is so much concern about what happens with farming,
but what I have not heard is all of those vehicles are dropping fluids into the beach;
oil, air conditioning(AC) run-off, anti-freeze, and whatever it is going into the ground.
I have not heard one (1) complaint obviously, because it is a convenience to the people
to be able to park there.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present.)
Council Chair Rapozo: In your meetings, have you heard any concern
about the environment?
Mr. Rapozo: Some have raised some concerns.
Council Chair Rapozo: They have been?
Mr. Rapozo: With certain individuals, yes, they have
raised environmental concerns.
Council Chair Rapozo: I think it is an issue because the water is not
far from the parking area, but I have not heard it. So that is another issue that I
think we have to consider when we allow just parking. I am afraid if we allow parking
in one area, then beaches are going to be parking lots, and I do not think that was the
intent.
Mr. Rapozo: Right.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: Do you have dates for the upcoming meetings?
Mr. Rapozo: I do not have with them with me. I apologize.
I can send that over though, for you.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: Okay. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Hooser.
Councilmember Hooser: The environmental question was my very first
question to you, and I do not remember if you said when that environmental study is
going to be.
Mr. Rapozo: It is expected to be done by the end of the year.
Councilmember Hooser: Is that anticipated to test the sand?
COUNCIL MEETING 50 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Mr. Rapozo: It is testing the sand to see if there is
petroleum or gas in the sand and what some of the environmental impacts are that
is happening in the sand.
Councilmember Hooser: And how it might transmit to the water?
Mr. Rapozo: Well, we have seen the ocean during the
winter months coming up into the park, so it is definitely going into the ocean.
Councilmember Hooser: Right, but how much and what kind of impact
that poses?
Mr. Rapozo: I am not sure if they can measure how much
that goes into the ocean, but whatever is there when they do the sampling, and that
is why it is it taking so long. They are doing sampling over different periods and
analyzing what is there at the time of their sampling.
Councilmember Hooser: When will that be done again?
Mr. Rapozo: I think it was the end of the year, December.
Councilmember Hooser: Okay. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Councilmember Kaneshiro read out how
many parking spaces there will be in Plans A and B, and it seems both of them exceed
the number of cars that were found at peak on Labor Day weekend.
Mr. Rapozo: Actually, one hundred seventy-nine (179), but
ninety-five (95) of them were on the beach, yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Right.
Mr. Rapozo: The peak was one hundred
seventy-nine (179).
Councilmember Yukimura: Right, the total number of cars in the park
was one hundred seventy-nine (179)...
Mr. Rapozo: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: ...and the parking option for the proposed
plans are over two hundred (200)?
Mr. Rapozo: If you include the overflow parking, yes.
COUNCIL MEETING 51 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Councilmember Yukimura: Right. Okay. But on a regular day, you are
not likely to get a Labor Day-level of parking need?
Mr. Rapozo: We hope not.
Councilmember Yukimura: Do you know what the average parking need
is on a daily basis?
Mr. Rapozo: No, I do not.
Councilmember Yukimura: Just a regular daily use?
Mr. Rapozo: No, I do not.
Councilmember Yukimura: You do not have that figure?
Mr. Rapozo: I can double-check the figures that they got
during the sampling period and we can come up with an average. If you are asking
me if I have an average over a year's period, a calendar, I would not have that, but I
could get an average for you when the sample was taken.
Councilmember Yukimura: But it is not a Labor Day weekend?
Mr. Rapozo: We took one on August 28th through the 29th
and Labor Day, which was September 6th through the 7th.
Councilmember Yukimura: One (1) day of a daily use that is non-Labor
Day would not be enough to really give you an average parking.
Mr. Rapozo: I would say that this would be peak times
because this is during the summer and camping. I have gone down there in winter
to check on the parks during high surf, so I know that the water comes into the park.
With the exception to the surfers, parking is readily available off of the beach.
Councilmember Yukimura: What we might be looking for is the highs on
a regular day during the summer, and I would think that the Park Planners would
have that. So what it looks like is the plans that are being proposed probably are
providing sufficient parking.
Mr. Rapozo: That is what we are attempting to do, yes. In
order for you to form some opinion or objective decision, one way or the other, you
would like to have more information?
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa.
COUNCIL MEETING 52 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Councilmember Kagawa: I have a final question, and I do not know if
you or Mauna Kea are the ones to answer this one, but with this plan here, I cannot
wait for the day that this goes into place with the improvements to the boat ramp,
et cetera. Now, when is the earliest can the public expect that we would see this plan
in place?
Mr. Rapozo: The decision on which plan we are going end
up doing, the decision upon what we are going do with parking on the beach, and all
of that, we expect to get all of the information and hash it out by the spring of next
year. Then, by spring of next year when we decide on which plan, at that point we
may be able to get some idea of what kind of dollar amount it would be, and that is
when our body and you folks would have to collaborate to see if and how we are going
fund this construction.
Councilmember Kagawa: If by spring of next year, the Council decides
to fund whatever it takes to make this plan happen, then it would maybe be done in
a year from then?
Mr. Rapozo: Probably a year-and-a-half because we have
to be able to put the bid specifications together, advertise, and do what we need to do
procurement wise. Construction would usually probably take about ten (10) months,
so about a year-and-a-half would be a safe timeline.
Councilmember Kagawa: I agree that we are talking about parking on
the beach, but once this is done, then we can actually make it happen.
Mr. Rapozo: Yes.
Councilmember Kagawa: But without this in place, I feel like we are not
wasting our time, but it is difficult. There is no other option besides parking on the
beach because we have large events down in Hanalei. We have the statewide canoe
regatta and there is an amazing amount of people that go down there.
Mr. Rapozo: Currently at that point, we open up the old
boatyard to help manage that overflow. Ian Costa has brought some pictures and I
can circulate these pictures to show you.
Councilmember Kagawa: I think we can put it on the overhead, if
possible.
Mr. Rapozo: It shows parking on the beach during a heavy
flow weekend.
Councilmember Kagawa: The last question I have, Lenny, will you come
forward in increments as far as the improvements, for example, come forward with
the parking portion first and then the boat ramp second? Are you going to come
forward in a more bite-sized fashion rather than...
COUNCIL MEETING 53 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Mr. Rapozo: I would like to look at the total number first
and then we can do that.
Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. So when we reach that point, you will
decide?
Mr. Rapozo: Yes.
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you.
Mr. Rapozo: What Scott is putting up kind of depicts the
high use of the beach area.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Hooser and then
Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Hooser: I have two (2) questions. Is the planned
parking going to be asphalt or crushed coral?
Mr. Rapozo: I would like to try to use some kind of
impervious surface, but we also want to make sure that we are able to delineate lines
of established parking, not like now where all we have is bumpers and people are all
over the place.
Councilmember Hooser: Impervious surface means that water goes
into the soil?
Mr. Rapozo: Yes.
Councilmember Hooser: Also, that is close to the ocean, too?
Mr. Rapozo: Right. Our options are either cement,
asphalt, or some other type of surface.
Councilmember Hooser: That is why I was asking the question.
Mr. Rapozo: Maybe at this point we should not discuss
that because we just wanted to talk about parking on the beach in general and not
the materials that we are going use. I think we are ahead of that.
Councilmember Hooser: Right, but are talking about environmental
impacts from parking.
Mr. Rapozo: Right.
Councilmember Hooser: So there will be environmental impacts of
parking on impervious soil, which is also a short distance from the beach.
COUNCIL MEETING 54 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Mr. Rapozo: Right.
Councilmember Hooser: Okay. I just wanted to point that out.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay. Thank you.
Councilmember Hooser: I also wanted to find out what the plan was,
but we are not sure what the plan is yet.
Mr. Rapozo: Yes.
Councilmember Hooser: The second question was, we did get some
testimony from at least one (1) person from the Native Hawaiian community that was
concerned there was not enough outreach into that community to talk about
specifically their concerns, wants, and hopes for the future were.
Mr. Rapozo: If you could send me that information, I could
pass it along and ensure that they are included.
Councilmember Hooser: Okay. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: Yes. In addition to the other information
being requested, I was wondering if you have comments from community meetings
that we might be able to access as well.
Mr. Rapozo: Yes.
Councilmember Chock: I know you are here for feedback. My initial
glance at this is the issues that are coming up relate to safety and environmental
impacts, so I think those would be my priorities too.
Mr. Rapozo: Environmental impacts?
Councilmember Chock: Yes, and the safety. When I look at the
possibility of someone, especially a child getting hit by a car, I think it is an issue. I
understand that gradual change is probably necessary in this case, based on
tradition. I just do not know how that might work into the plan, but I think I heard
clearly that we are not going to take it away until we can establish that there is
enough parking and access.
Mr. Rapozo: Yes.
Councilmember Chock: I think some of the concerns that I have heard
is really about access and I just do not know what the solution is in terms of that. I
do want to echo, and I think we have a copy here of the testimony, but the cultural
history and cultural practices aspect of now that we have this acquisition of land
COUNCIL MEETING 55 OCTOBER 5, 2016
should be taken into consideration. That area is traditional for lawai a, navigational
purposes, and has a lot of wahi pana. I would just encourage that maybe we connect
with some of the cultural practitioners if that has not already been done to look at
you area from that standpoint as well. I will look for the update too, but that is kind
of where I am at.
Mr. Rapozo: Councilmembers, in me being here, I
understand. This is a new one that I have not seen this person yet, but I am sure
that some of those that have said in their testimony to you are those that we have
heard once before. My being here is to really get this body's feelings of what they
believe. Councilmember Kagawa has given me his, Council Chair Rapozo and
Councilmember Hooser have been pretty clear about their feelings, and from what I
am hearing Councilmember Yukimura needs more information, whether she wants
some form. I would ask you, what your feeling is about just parking on the beach
here at Black Pot Beach Park, in general.
Councilmember Chock: I think I responded by saying that safety and
environmental impacts are my concerns. With that being said, I would remove people
from the beach if possible.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: I just want to get clarity of the terms that we
are using. I do agree that what the nature of the parking will be in the park is
something that we have to look at if that is alternative to parking on the beach. Are
we talking about impermeable or permeable surfaces? I think Grove Farm Company,
Inc. did a parking lot with permeable surfaces, which allowed permeation of the water
into the ground rather than running off.
Mr. Rapozo: That is what I meant, into the ground.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
Mr. Rapozo: Again, my purpose here is not to discuss what
materials will be used for parking. I really wanted to discuss and focus on what we
can do with parking on the beach. What are some of your thoughts on either having
it, or not having it, or having it partially? That is what I wanted to bring up.
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, you know that safety is something that
I have brought up and I think this body says that is the priority, the well-being of
people, so that is a key concern and it has to be addressed. It cannot be left
unaddressed. We hope we will see what the options are from recommendations from
the Parks Planner and from the Administration as to how you will be addressing that
or proposing to address that.
COUNCIL MEETING 56 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Mr. Rapozo: So you would be open for all options? That is
what I am hearing from you because you have not said one way or the other.
Councilmember Yukimura: I am saying that I want to see safety
addressed as a top priority.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions? Lenny, the
plans that you have or these conceptual plans, you believe could accommodate the
existing number of...
Mr. Rapozo: Probably not. I do not know how many cars
turnaround and do not go there because there is no more parking.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes. I did not count it, but I would assume
this is the accurate number, but that is a significant amount of parking.
Mr. Rapozo: It is immensely more than what we have now.
Council Chair Rapozo: Oh, yes. It is obviously inadequate now.
Then, you also have the opportunity to go across the street. In the future, would we
have room to expand parking to the boatyard property?
Mr. Rapozo: That plan includes the boatyard property.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay, and then the cars currently utilize
Weke Road.
Mr. Rapozo: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: I think the plans show an adequate amount.
For me, the preference would be to remove the cars from the beach. It is a tough
thing because a lot of people are used to parking and jumping in the water, but I do
not see what is different between Hanalei Bay, Po`ipu Beach, and Wailua Beach.
Mr. Rapozo: What about Pakala?
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, they have to walk pretty far at Pakala. I
think it is just a matter of what is safe. I think right now, it is not a safety safe
environment. The people who utilize Hanalei Bay on a regular basis have learned to
be safe, so they look both ways and whatever the case is.
Mr. Rapozo: Right.
Council Chair Rapozo: But we have a lot of visitors that go over there
and we have a lot of people like me who went out there, I forget what holiday
weekend. I think it was Labor Day last year, and I was just shocked to see the number
COUNCIL MEETING 57 OCTOBER 5, 2016
of vehicles and the movement. It is just constantly moves, which creates a dangerous
situation. I also believe that we have to provide adequate parking for the beach users,
too.
Mr. Rapozo: From a personal note, I have gone down there
and because we rarely go there, we make it a day.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes.
Mr. Rapozo: The people during the day and the people that
come after the sun goes down are two (2) totally different crowds on the beach.
Council Chair Rapozo: But there is still a lot of people during both
times.
Mr. Rapozo: Exactly.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: At Ke`e Beach where there is also a parking
problem not on the beach, but still the issue of a lot of cars, the Administration has
tried to develop shuttle system to address that so people can get there without their
cars. Is there any plans for giving some access to people who do not have cars? Is
there a shuttle plan that is going to allow people to get to Black Pot Beach Park by
shuttle and how many people would that serve? It would have to be people without
surfboards. Has there been any thought about that?
Mr. Rapozo: Thanks to George Costa, this is one (1) of the
stops on the shuttle route.
Councilmember Yukimura: It is right now?
Mr. Rapozo: Currently, yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: The question is, of all the people who go to
Black Pot Beach Park right now, how many could use the shuttle with ease? I do not
know how often it goes there, and that is a factor, but in terms of the things that they
have to carry, how many are tourist cars with a couple that do not have a surfboard
and things like that?
Mr. Rapozo: I do not have that information.
Councilmember Yukimura: Do your Park Planners have that
information?
Mr. Rapozo: Probably not. Maybe the Office of Economic
Development (OED) might because they are running that program.
COUNCIL MEETING 58 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Councilmember Yukimura: What program are they running?
Mr. Rapozo: OED is overseeing the shuttle program.
Councilmember Yukimura: Oh, yes, but you are not going to get that kind
of information from the shuttle program because it does not go often enough. You
have to look at the crowd that goes there now...
Mr. Rapozo: Okay.
Councilmember Yukimura: ...and see the shuttle potential.
Mr. Rapozo: Okay.
Councilmember Yukimura: The question is, is there a way to alleviate
some of the parking problems? Kudos to George for thinking about that. In Whistler,
they have the shuttles that take skis, so maybe one day we will get to buses that take
surfboards, but Whistler is kind of a different situation.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions for Lenny? If
not, thank you very much.
Mr. Rapozo: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anybody in the audience wishing to
testify? Can I have the first registered speaker?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Anne Punohu and Kamala Merseberg.
Council Chair Rapozo: Take your time.
Ms. Punohu: Aloha. My name is Anne Punohu and this is
my hanai mama, Kamala Merseberg. She does not have her hearing aid today, so
she cannot hear you. She says she does not want to talk, but I brought her with me
for a reason. She kind of represents the area that we are talking about. Aunty
Kamala Merseberg was born and raised there. She had her lifetime of watching Black
Pot Beach Park grow from a Black Pot Beach Park with Uncle (Inaudible) who used
to come down and cook all of it his food. That is how it got its name. I asked her what
she thought about the situation and I know Aunty Kamala would want it to be safe.
She would want it to be safe for the kupuna, too, who would have a really hard time
getting to the ocean without access. It was mostly for fishing, right, mama? People
would come down and go holo.
KAMALA MERSEBERG: Kala mai (inaudible).
Ms. Punohu: She cannot here. She does not have her
hearing aid today. I will sit here.
COUNCIL MEETING 59 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Council Chair Rapozo: We have a hearing device. Would that work?
Ms. Punohu: Is that something that she can hear with?
Council Chair Rapozo: We have the device.
Ms. Punohu: Okay. They have something that you can
hear with mama.
Ms. Merseberg: Yes, go get it.
Ms. Punohu: Okay. She told me to go get it. I think they
are going to get it.
Council Chair Rapozo: You can continue.
Ms. Punohu: Mom, it was for fishing and people would
drive down, right? Back in the day, people would drive down for fishing.
Ms. Merseberg: Well, I am originally from Honolulu. Kala
mai, I am Kamala Merseberg. I am originally from Honolulu. I came here in 1959,
which was during the time Hawaii was getting its Statehood.
Council Chair Rapozo: Can you hear me now?
Councilmember Yukimura: Is it on?
Ms. Merseberg: Yes, in this ear.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay, good.
Ms. Merseberg: Anyway, we came here back in 1959 and we
moved to Hanalei back in 1960. I attended Kapa'a High School. Why are we talking
about Black Pot Beach Park?
Ms. Punohu: It is about parking down at Black Pot Beach
Park. Do you think it is safe to be parking nowadays with the cars or how it was
before back in the day and why people parked on the beach back then?
Ms. Merseberg: Back in the day, the water did not come way
up like how I see it now on the screen. It used to be further out. We used to park
down there. We used to take our ukana, coolers, tables, and chairs out there. It was
near. It was convenient and we parked out there. Of course, all of the keiki would go
out there. We would take our grill too.
Ms. Punohu: (Inaudible) all of these things down there.
COUNCIL MEETING 60 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Ms. Merseberg: Yes. (Inaudible). We carried all of the ukana
and everything.
Ms. Punohu: What do you think about nowadays? What do
you think about all of the cars now, mama?
Ms. Merseberg: Well, I was there recently because I go with
the Core program. The bus takes us out there on the paratransit bus, and in fact, we
have two (2) buses. It is right there near the ocean. We had (inaudible) from Easter
Seals and people with disabilities that goes down there. They would park right there
on the sand because it was convenient for them.
Ms. Punohu: So it is convenient and the disabled people are
able to go down there close to the beach on the sand because they needed access,
right?
Ms. Merseberg: Yes, it is right there. It is convenient for
everybody, all of the volunteers and the ones who participate.
Ms. Punohu: What do you think nowadays? They are
talking about put in a big parking lot there with over one hundred (100) stalls so that
people will not park on the beach anymore and they have to park on the parking lot
inside. If you cannot park on the beach anymore, what do you think about that?
Ms. Merseberg: Well, like every other place today, places are
getting congested. When I was out there last month, there were people parking in all
angles out there. It makes it hard for buses to go in and out. There were people with
tents there also. They are not those really big tents, but people come and set up their
things. Now, it is not like before. It is really different.
Ms. Punohu: Do you think it would be better if they did not
park down on the beach?
Ms. Merseberg: Well, when I was out there, the water is
coming way out there and it is kind of dangerous for cars to go down there now. While
people have their different opinions of Black Pot Beach Park, but I look at it where
you think of safety first.
Council Chair Rapozo: Anne, hang on right there. Is there anyone
else wishing to testify?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: We have one (1) more registered speaker,
Glenn Mickens.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Are you folks opposed to allowing them
to have their second round? Okay. Anne, we went through your three (3) minutes
and your Aunty's three (3) minutes. We are going back to do three (3) minutes for
the two (2) of you.
COUNCIL MEETING 61 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Ms. Punohu: Thank you. I am really grateful that mama
was able to testify today. I was really grateful, because I had to convince her. But do
you know what? I think she is the best person because she sees both sides, she is also
disabled, and she needs the paratransit to get down there. If she says that times
have changed, that it is maybe too dangerous now, and there is too much cars down
there, I will give you my opinion. For a huge chunk of my life, I was raised right
there. We used it to pick up the fish and people came with their boats. I can
remember my aunties and uncles scolding us and we used to go cruising down there.
People would say, "Slow down." Everybody would get yelled at if they drove too fast
down there. Yes, it is a tradition to park there, but there was a reason for the
traditions, which have now changed because they changed Hanalei. What I want to
make sure of is that we are not selling our kupuna, our elderly, and our disabled short
by making sure that the paratransit can get down there and making sure that our
kupuna have easy access to those areas, which may be too difficult for them to walk
to. While we are making these big plan, which I tend to agree with things have
changed, but I want to make sure that people can still pull their boats and canoes in.
As far as permeable surface, yes, that is why we fought the boater people,
because of all of the things that was in the water. My other thing is building huge
parking lots, run-off, and all of that. But, in general though, I agree with my mama
that the times have changed, that it is a safety issue, and that we have to
accommodate everybody. We also need to make sure we do not sell our kupuna and
our handicapped people short that cannot access the areas that need to traditionally
access because it is very important for our kupuna to be able to access those areas
that are traditionally important. Mahalo.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you.
Ms. Punohu: Do you want to say anything else mama?
Ms. Merseberg: Yes. I go with the Core program. They take
me out on the surfboard.
Ms. Punohu: Really?
Ms. Merseberg: Yes. They saw me hanging out on a surfboard
and they said, "Aunty, are you ready?" I said, "Yes," and then they pushed me. I try
to talk to our kupuna to join the Core program because it is good for them too.
Ms. Punohu: Exactly.
Ms. Merseberg: They saw me on the bus one day and said,
"Aunty, why do you not join our program?" I said, "I will take you up on that." But I
am on the bus every day.
Ms. Punohu: So you want to be able to make sure that bus
that helps you with that Core program can get you to the beach so that you can get
onto the surfboard?
COUNCIL MEETING 62 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Ms. Merseberg: Yes.
Ms. Punohu: Papa he'e nalu, maika`i. Are you pau,
because I am pau?
Ms. Merseberg: Mahalo.
Ms. Punohu: Aloha.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you so much. That is a hard act to
follow, Mr. Mickens.
Ms. Merseberg: This came in handy.
Councilmember Yukimura: Anne, she can keep wearing it.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, she can use it if she wants to hear the
rest of the meeting. Was Mr. Mickens the next registered speaker?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Yes.
Mr. Mickens: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. For the
record, Glenn Mickens. Thank you BC. I think this is really a no-brainer. Why would
you even think about sacrificing safety and environmental concerns for the
convenience of parking in the sand? I grew up in Southern California and there are
hundreds of miles of beaches. I used to live there in the summertime and vacation
time, and I never saw a car parked in the sand. They had huge parking lots. It was
first-come, first-served in the summertime. People poured from the valley out to the
beaches, and they had to park all along the highways or wherever they could find a
spot, but they never let them park in the sand. Council Chair Rapozo, you pointed
out what about brake fluids, oil, and automatic fluids, draining into the sand off these
cars? It is going to happen. New cars still drip oil. Kids playing in that and then
maybe they will ingest the poison. Councilmember Yukimura pointed out that there
was a person down there behind the golf course. I do not know if it was a man or
woman, but they got their leg run over by a truck driving on the sand. Why in the
world would we even think about having that for what? I saw down at Lydgate Beach
Park a tourist had a rental car, comes out there, and drives in the sand. It was not a
four-wheeled vehicle and he got stuck. A local had to come along with his tow chain
to pull him out. It is just ridiculous. You are going to have to walk one hundred (100)
yards or whatever it is to get to the beaches. Beaches were made for the people to lay
in and put their umbrellas and chairs out, but not have to vehicles driving on the
sand. I do not think it is a good idea and I never will. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other speakers? Mr. Bernabe.
Mr. Bernabe: Matt Bernabe, for the record. Well, I would
just like to say that I like the conversation because on one (1) side of the coin, I do
drive on the sand, not just at that beach. I park on that beach. I fish all over. But
COUNCIL MEETING 63 OCTOBER 5, 2016
on the other hand, it is overpopulated. I see the children a little different because
they are pretty "sharky" over there. They know what is going on. I will be honest,
the kids that I see are on high alert when they are at the beach. They are dodging
traffic, but it is a potential problem. I am more worried about some of the adults that
I see. With that said, I am also worried about the rest of the parking in Hanalei
because I go to Pine Trees. Pine Trees is just as bad. They park on the side of the
road. We do need some stalls off-site because I would drop my wife off, park, and
walk back. I do not really fish right there, and if I do, it is at the pier. I am worried
about the precedence of doing something here, what are the implications at other
places? One of the things that the State beaches do is they do not bother the trucks
that park on it. Maybe now they have gotten a little stricter out in Polihale. But it
is a little bit different from those beaches to this parking lot. I think this one is just
is high. I heard the testimony. If you go there any day of the week during the entire
summer, the beach is congested. Sometimes I have to circle, turn around, look and
hunt, and hope for somebody to leave. This will be an interesting discussion because
yes, I want to keep all of our rights, liberties, and traditions, but at the same time, I
want to safeguard our environment and ourselves as well. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Next. Mr. Taylor.
Mr. Taylor: Chair and Members of the Council, my name
is Ken Taylor. As a boy growing up in a beach town that was tourist-oriented
community, we were able to do a lot of things on the beach that are no longer
acceptable. It is called growing pains. When the population increases to a certain
point, you have to make some rules and regulations to accommodate that growth and
unfortunately, none of us like to give up what we have done for years and years. But
the time comes when decisions have to be made, and the right decision at this point
in time, is to eliminate driving vehicles on the beach. It has to happen. If it does not
happen now, it is going to happen down the road in short order. The time has come
where we can no longer do what we used to do, and we have seen it all over the world.
It is happening and unless you want to somehow hold the population or even turn the
clock back on the population, then we can continue doing what we used to do. But for
the safety of all, and the beaches are for all, not just for a few people that want to
drive out on the beach. It is a tough call, but it has to be made and unfortunately,
now is the time to make that decision, and move forward. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there anyone else wishing to
testify?
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there further discussion? Councilmember
Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you. What Matt said kind of reminded
me of a camping experience down there. We were talking about ghosts and being
afraid of ghosts, and my Uncle Tokey said so clearly, "Do not be afraid of the ghosts,
COUNCIL MEETING 64 OCTOBER 5, 2016
be afraid of the humans." Similar to that picture that we saw the nice white truck
driving in the water to go around to where he wanted to go, and that saltwater really
damages your vehicle. For a nice car like that, it is really not a wise move because
that saltwater really eats up your vehicle. To drive in the water is just...that should
be banned, flat-out. You should not be able to touch the high wash of the wave, period.
If you need to do that to get around, then you should not go in. You should be backing
out. On another point, I waited four (4) years since I gotten in. I know we said, "Well,
we purchased the property to do a lot of this expansion through eminent domain" but
there are two (2)ways to get it; you negotiate with the landowner or you get it through
eminent domain. We have gone through the eminent domain process and four (4)
years later, we still have not done a thing to the property. We say that we have
purchased through eminent domain, and I am just wondering whether we need to go
back to the drawing board and try maybe negotiate with the landowner because when
it is tied up in court, the public is still the one that suffers. We still have to park on
the beach and deal with safety issues. If we purchased it through Mr. Sheehan, and
he has come here and said, "Let us stay out of court. I want to give you the land. I
want to give you the boat ramp"—well, not give, but through a purchase. He said that,
"Let us stay out of court. I want the community to have that land." Again, it goes
back to my Norm Chow story about why he was unsuccessful as the University of
Hawai`i (UH) football coach. A lot of people said that he was stubborn. For us, we
have to avoid being stubborn. The landowner was right here testifying in person.
Other people can say, "Well, I do not trust him with past dealings or whatever," but
is this eminent domain process working? Are we using the facility? The answer is
no. I hope that we can make Lenny's dates. If the eminent domain process is the
way to purchase the property, then by spring of 2017, we will see movement. If not,
we have to ask ourselves again, are we being like Norm Chow? Are we being stubborn
and getting nothing done because we are hard-headed and do not like change? Again,
let us stop following the Norm Chow process in whatever we do. If things are not
working, let us be willing to change. Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Anyone else? Councilmember
Hooser.
Councilmember Hooser: Obviously, .there are issues down there that
include environmental impacts and safety impacts. Someone said it was making a
tough call, and it is a tough call. Today is not the time to make that call. It is not on
the agenda. I bet if you put an item on the agenda to ban parking at Black Pot Beach
Park, we would have a room full of people, we would have a lot more information, and
it would be making the decision in the proper environment. We are discussing this
with very limited information presented by the Department of Parks & Recreation. I
appreciate the Director of Parks & Recreation wanting to get a feel for where the
Council is at, but without the proper information and the real data, it is hard to take
a definitive position, especially in terms of the environmental impacts and some of
the numbers. I do not support just pulling the plug and stopping something that has
been going on since the 1950s or below. I think there is a saying, and I will probably
get it wrong, something about "when the only tool you have is a hammer, everybody
problem is a nail." I do not think we need to just smash this one down. I think there
are ways to gradually make it safer and improve the environmental impacts. I think
COUNCIL MEETING 65 OCTOBER 5, 2016
would it would be healthier for the community. I think there are ways to mitigate
the issues. I will just pick a number, if twenty percent (20%) of the traffic or parking
is visitor traffic, then we can possibly limit it to only local traffic. That would mitigate
twenty percent (20%). If the problem was at night and parties, you could restrict it
at night. There are lots of small steps to go incrementally towards improving the
situation. I do not think pulling the rug and banning parking at Black Pot Beach
Park is the way to go, certainly not without many other questions being asked. There
are intermediate steps that we could take, and we should explore those intermediate
steps. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: I agree with the idea of a transition plan and
whatever we do, needs to be respectful of the fact that it is been a long-standing
practice there. I look forward to some, not only information, but also
recommendations from the Administration, which is the main body that does the
planning function of the County. I think we have a wonderful opportunity to plan
long-range for an amazingly precious resource and park, and I hope we can find a
way to develop it in the future years in a way that is going to make it a functional
and wonderful place where people can gather, and do all of the things there they do
down at the beach.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any other discussion? If not, there is
a different temperament and a different tone when the Council is brought in at the
beginning and asked for our input. I think that is how it should be and I appreciate
that opportunity. I am not advocating that we stop the parking on the beach today,
what I am saying is that we need to provide an alternative for those vehicles. You
cannot just stop it without a place for them to go. But I believe that those beaches
should be for beachgoers. I think they should be for beachgoers and I would also like
to see the current exemptions for the transportation of your fishing gear continue. I
do not think that should be taken away. I think the local fishermen should be allowed
to go down, drop off their gear, and park in the parking lot. Another thing that I
would like to see discussed or looked at by the Department of Parks& Recreation,
and it may not even be a park issue because most of the beaches are State, but on
some of the areas like on the west side where people do not use the beach and it is
really just vast sand, I would like to give those people with the trucks an opportunity
to drive in the sand and not be criminals, beaches that are not used by the general
public more along the west coast is something to explore. Then we would not be
making them violators of the law if they wanted to take a drive, not racing on the
beaches or anything unsafe. As far as beaches that the public use, I think the vehicles
should be off and only allow transporting. I really encourage the fishermen to get
down there to drop off kupuna, and no matter what is done, not only because it is
required, but because it is the right thing to do, there will be accommodations made
for paratransit buses to drop off our kupuna and of course, for programs like Core, to
have access to the beaches. That is something that just has to be a part of it. .I am
not concerned about that. We are looking forward to more discussion and getting the
plan. I also do want to echo what Councilmember Kagawa said about the boatyard
property that is stuck in court, that we need to move on that one way or the other.
COUNCIL MEETING 66 OCTOBER 5, 2016
That is something that we would like to address as well because we are spending a
lot of money in something that is possible that we could get to a resolution without
being in court. Is there any other discussion? If not, the motion is to receive.
The motion to receive C 2016-208 for the record was then put, and carried by
a vote of 6:0:1 (Councilmember Kualii was excused).
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item, please.
CLAIM:
C 2016-209 Communication (09/21/2016) from the County Clerk,
transmitting a claim against the County of Kaua`i by Alamo Rent A Car, for damage
to their vehicle, pursuant to Section 23.06, Charter of the County of Kaua`i:
Councilmember Kagawa moved to C 2016-209 to the County Attorney's Office for
disposition and/or report back to the Council, seconded by Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion? Is there any public
testimony?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
The motion to refer C 2016-209 to the County Attorney's Office for 'disposition
and/or report back to the Council was then put, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1
(Councilmember Kuali`i was excused).
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item, please.
COMMITTEE REPORTS:
HOUSING & TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE:
A report (No. CR-HT 2016-03) submitted by the Housing & Transportation
Committee, recommending that the following be Received for the Record:
"Resolution No. 2016-39 — RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING
CROSSWALKS, STRIPED PEDESTRIAN WALKWAYS, AND
INTERSECTION MODIFICATIONS ON WAIKOMO ROAD, KOLOA
DISTRICT, COUNTY OF KAUAI"
Councilmember Chock moved for approval of the report, seconded by
Councilmember Yukimura.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion? Is there any public
testimony?
COUNCIL MEETING 67 OCTOBER 5, 2016
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
The motion for approval of the report was then put, and carried by a vote of
6:0:1 (Councilmember Kuali`i was excused).
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item, please.
PLANNING COMMITTEE:
A report (No. CR-PL 2016-08) submitted by the Planning Committee,
recommending that the following be Approved on second and final reading:
"Bill No. 2636 — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
SUBSECTION 8-15.1(d)(7), KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED,
RELATING TO ADDITIONAL DWELLING UNITS (County of Kauai,
Applicant)"
Councilmember Chock moved for approval of the report, seconded by
Councilmember Yukimura.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion? Is there any public
testimony?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
The motion for approval of the report was then put, and carried by a vote of
6:0:1 (Councilmember Kuali`i was excused):
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item.
Resolution No. 2016-59 — RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING A SCHOOL BUS
STOP ON OLOHENA ROAD IN THE VICINITY OF ITS INTERSECTION WITH
WAIPOULI ROAD, KAWAIHAU DISTRICT, COUNTY OF KAUAI: Councilmember
Kagawa moved for adoption of Resolution No. 2016-59, seconded by Councilmember
Kaneshiro.
Councilmember Yukimura moved to receive Resolution No. 2016-59 for the
record.
Council Chair Rapozo: The motion to approve was first. Is there any
discussion? Councilmember Yukimura.
COUNCIL MEETING 68 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Councilmember Yukimura: Are we on Resolution No. 2016-...
Council Chair Rapozo: We are on...
Councilmember Yukimura: Olohena Road?
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes. Did you have a problem with the
Resolution?
Councilmember Yukimura: No.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay.
Councilmember Yukimura: I am sorry.
Council Chair Rapozo: You got me worried there. I was like, oh my
God, you are voting against a bus stop. That would be the first time.
Councilmember Kagawa: I knew she made a mistake.
Councilmember Yukimura: Sorry. It was a big error.
Councilmember Kagawa: She thought it was the Waikomo Road issue,
but it done already.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Good, I feel better.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion? Is there any public
testimony?
Councilmember Kagawa: I just would like the County Engineer to come
up and just give a brief explanation of this bus stop and who requested it. My second
question I would like him to address is, what vicinity it is in deeper than what is says
on Waipouli Road, and then, is there adequate shoulder room for the bus to pull off
to the side or is there insufficient room, so then the bus would just have to stop and
pick up the kids and traffic would have to be stopped? I just want a brief description
of this bus stop.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
KEITH SUGA, Executive Assistant to the Mayor: Keith Suga.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much, Keith and Mike, for
being here. Did you get all of that? Let us start with the first question. Just give us
a brief overview.
COUNCIL MEETING 69 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Councilmember Kagawa: Yes, where is this bus stop? It is on Olohena
Road near Waipouli Road?
MICHAEL MOULE, Chief of Engineer Division: For the record, I am
Michael Moule, Chief of the Engineering Division with the Department of Public
Works. I will briefly explain how this works. It is pretty straightforward. We
typically get these requests from the Department of Education (DOE) and they ask
for a new stop perhaps because there are new children that need to be picked up that
moved to a new house or something like that. There are various reasons for that. For
school bus stops, the typical placement is just a sign on the side of the road because
there is no need for accessibility because they provide accessibility through special
buses for students who are disabled. The bus does typically stop in the travel lane
for a school bus stop with the red lights flashing so no one can pass the bus while the
school bus is actually stopped. I put an image up on the screen here that shows the
area approximately, where the children would get on and off the bus. The bus would
likely stay in the travel lane, as I said before, because it has red lights flashing and
no one can legally pass at that time. The sign would be over here, just to the right,
but maybe not quite that far to the right as shown in the image and students would
get on the bus from that area there. There is a fair amount of room at this corner.
The white vehicle around the corner there is parked going on the side of Waipouli
Road to the right there, and the road to the left of the image is Olohena Road. So
Road, which is to the right there. The road to the left in the image is Olohena Road.
They requested this bus stop somewhere in this vicinity. We investigated in the field
and found there is sufficient room for students to wait outside of traffic, as you can
see there, and we feel this is a reasonable place for a bus stop along this road. We
also checked sight distances to make sure that you can see the bus as you come
around the curves, and it was sufficient for that.
Councilmember Kagawa: So this came from the Department of
Education as they had a request from community, and they requested it?
Mr. Moule: That is right.
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: So this not an existing bus stop, this is a new
location that will be picking up and dropping off?
Mr. Moule: That is correct.
Councilmember Chock: So the students for this bus stop come up
mauka on Waipouli Road?
Mr. Moule: I believe so. That is my understanding.
COUNCIL MEETING 70 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Councilmember Chock: What is the access for walking to this bus stop
for these students?
Mr. Moule: Like many low-volume roads, students and
others who walk along these roads share the paved surface or walk in the grass. I do
not think we have recent counts on Waipouli Road, but it is a relatively low-volume
road. I am familiar with it. I have been on it several times. It does not have a center
line. It is a low-volume road in this portion of Waipouli that mainly serves to access
residents. There is the Moalepe Trail at the top of Waipouli Road, although it is
actually faster to stay on Olohena Road to get there if you are going up to that trail.
Many local residents use these roads for all-purposes; driving, walking, bicycling, and
whatever it may be.
Councilmember Chock: Yes, I do not doubt that the need is there. I
just know that there are some sharp turns on that road that might need to be
considered for walking, so that is a concern. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Basically, it will not involve any structure
except the sign?
Mr. Moule: That is right. It is just a school bus sign that
we place. It is similar to many other school bus stops around the island. The typical
solution for that is just to put in a sign because again, students do not need any sort
of accessible features because those who do, are provided special buses to their
houses.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions? If not, thank
you very much, gentlemen. Anyone in the audience wishing to testify? Mr. Mickens.
Mr. Mickens: For the record, Glenn Mickens. I live about a
mile from this intersection. I am on Hauiki Road, and Waipouli Road is the next
street over. There are a couple of bus stops on Hauiki Road. I am not really sure. I
have seen the bus stop and maybe one (1) or two (2) kids maximum get off of the bus.
So there is not that many kids up there that are going to be there. So I am not sure
who asked for this bus stop. I think you asked it Councilmember Kagawa, who is the
one that instigated this? Was it the people or who? I am not sure. I have no problem,
but when we talk about bus stops again, Kapa'a Middle School...remember we talked
about this some time ago, having a flashing light up there when school is in session?
Do you what the sign says? Fifteen miles per hour (15 MPH) when children are
present. What does that mean? When you physically see kids. But if they just put
the sign up, and I think you folks agreed to it, put a flashing sign up there, fifteen
miles per hour (15 MPH) when the sign is the flashing. When the sign stops, school
is out. Council Chair Rapozo, I think you brought it up. But what happened? This
COUNCIL MEETING 71 OCTOBER 5, 2016
is just like a typical thing where it just falls off of the agenda. I know I am off the
agenda topic a little bit.
Council Chair Rapozo: A little bit.
Mr. Mickens: I just want to find out why these things are
brought up, you folks say, "Yes, good idea," and then it is done. Nothing happens.
Those are my thoughts. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anyone else wishing to testify?
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any further discussion? Glenn, I will
just say that it is frustrating. I think all of us on the Council bring up things that
just go wherever. We do not know. Is there any further discussion? If not, roll call.
The motion for adoption of Resolution No. 2016-59 was then put, and carried
by the following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Chock, Hooser, Kagawa, Kaneshiro,
Yukimura, Rapozo TOTAL— 6,
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Kuali`i TOTAL — 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Six (6) ayes, one (1) excused.
Council Chair Rapozo: Next item.
BILL FOR SECOND READING:
Bill No. 2636 — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
SUBSECTION 8-15.1(d)(7), KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED,
RELATING TO ADDITIONAL DWELLING UNITS (County of Kauai, Applicant):
Councilmember Chock moved for adoption of Bill No. 2636 on second and final reading,
and that it be transmitted to the Mayor for his approval, seconded by Councilmember
Kaneshiro.
Councilmember Kagawa moved to amend Bill No. 2636, as circulated, as
shown in the Floor Amendment, which is attached hereto as Attachment 1,
seconded by Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Kagawa: If I may?
Council Chair Rapozo: Go ahead. We just did not get a copy.
COUNCIL MEETING 72 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. The
amendment is going around. It simply moves the date. The previous date we had on
the Bill was for December 30, 2016, and we are moving it to June 30, 2017. So instead
of having about two and a half (21/2) months to get all of these re-certifications
submitted, we will add an additional six (6) months. It will be approximately eight
and a half (81/2) months for all of these re-certifications to have a chance to finally
come in. If they want to recertify, they need to go to the Planning Department and
get it done. Hopefully this will be the last time. I am hoping that by June 30, 2017,
the Planning Department will be able to close the books on all of these certifications
that have carried over for twenty (20) plus years or so. Again, the main purpose was
to make sure that we allowed ample time for our local residents to recertify. We found
that the previous bill did not allow that. It allowed for a two-month window and
unfortunately, there were nine (9) people that did not make the date. We have
subsequent contested-case hearings that are going to take some time and money. I
think this will clear up those contested-case ones that felt two (2) months was
insufficient. Hopefully we will get better advertising out there, and the Kaua`i Board
of Realtors is going to help as well. But hopefully the County can do its part and get
the word out so that we can avoid these contested-case hearings that are unnecessary.
Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much. Councilmember
Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: I think this is a good amendment, and I want
to thank the Vice Chair Kagawa for proposing it.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there any other discussion?
Councilmember Kagawa: Yes. Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. I
would like to add that I have done a letter of request to the Office of the County
Attorney as well as the Planning Department on their thoughts, and they both have
said that they have no problems with it. It is the Council's purview to make changes
and they do not seen as a substantive change, so there is need to go back to the
Planning Commission.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Is there any other discussion?
Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: There was discussion last time when we
heard this about advertising the date, and I just wanted to confirm that that is
something that will be taken care of. I think there was a request for it to be in the
newspaper or whatever. I just wanted to see if that was followed through.
Councilmember Kagawa: I think my request was hoping that the
Mayor's Office could maybe use Sarah Blane, who does the press releases, to maybe
do some type of press release for free. Hopefully we do not have to spend taxpayer
money to get the word out to our major newspaper that this change is important and
that if you want to make this final date, it is going to be looked at your last and final
COUNCIL MEETING 73 OCTOBER 5, 2016
chance to get recertified. So hopefully, we can get some kind of message that maybe
we could have our Planning Director to get the Mayor's Office to at least have
something in the paper.
Council Chair Rapozo: How many properties does this involve, just
ballpark? My point is this, one hundred (100) or two hundred (200) properties, what
is the cost of a stamp today? Is it fifty-five cents ($0.55)? You send a letter to every
landowner that is affected because we know who they are...remember, these are
people that already have their certificates. These are not new people. These are
people that have their certificates and we are basically extending the opportunity for
them to get construction, correct? The County sends a letter saying, "Hey, this is the
deal, you have until June 30,2017 to finish your process." It is fifty-five cents ($0.55)
a stamp, so for two hundred (200) stamps, that is one hundred ten dollars ($110). I
think we can afford that to inform the people, rather than deal with a contested-case
because they were not notified. Again, that is just a suggestion, in addition to putting
it on the County website and Real Property Tax. When they open up the page, it
shows up. This is also in addition, to the Board of Realtors letting their people know.
Sending out two hundred (200) pieces of mail should not, in my opinion, and then we
cover that argument that they were notified and everybody knows. If your idea,
which I agree with, that as of July 1st, it is pau, I think it should be in our best interest
to make sure that we do our best in notifying all of the people that are affected. So
that is just a hint or a clue. Is there any other discussion? If not, is there anyone in
the audience wishing to testify?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
Council Chair Rapozo: Sorry, do we have registered speakers?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: We have one (1) registered speaker.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Who is the registered speaker?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Allen Kapali.
Council Chair Rapozo: Mr. Kapali.
Mr. Kapali: Aloha again, Council. My name is Allen
Kapali. I was one of those people who missed the deadline of February 2015 by two (2)
days. I went in and the Clerk said that I can appeal it. I wrote a letter and everything
and I appealed it, but she forgot to tell me I had to pay two hundred fifty
dollars ($250) for the recertification, so all of my things came back. Thankfully you
brought this and re-opened it back so I can go back and resubmit it. Thank you very
much. Ron Wiley does fantastic things when he does his public announcements. He
save my butt one day in regards to my real property tax. He said, "Do not forget the
deadline to pay your real property tax," so just something simple like that.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, exactly. That is a good point.
COUNCIL MEETING 74 OCTOBER 5, 2016
Mr. Kapali: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: You never know what is going to happen.
CHAD DEAL: Hello Council. Council Chair Rapozo and
Councilmembers, I am Chad Deal. I am the Interim Government Affairs Director for
the Kauai Board of Realtors. I wish to thank you very much for extending the
deadline on the recertification. I believe this will allow for us to all get the word out.
If I may request as you were saying, Council Chair Rapozo, there is a list somewhere
of these people who need to be notified, and if I could request a copy of that list also,
then I would pass it on to the Board of Realtors and ask them to send out a letter
also. Thank you very much for the opportunity to testify and thank you again, for
your great work.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much. Is there anyone else
wishing to testify? If not, I will call the meeting back to order.
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any further discussion?
Councilmember Kagawa: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: It sounds like we just got payment for the
stamps.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes.
Councilmember Kagawa: Let us get the list out via E-mail and we can
get it down for free.
Council Chair Rapozo: We will check on the privacy issues with the
list, but if it is possible, we will definitely get it to you. Is there any other discussion
for the amendment? Again, just to make it clear, it is not expanding any
opportunities. This is trying to take care of the people who had their certificates or
their certification, and we are just allowing them more time to recertify. I appreciate
that. With that, roll call.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: This is on the amendment.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay, just voice-vote on amendment. Sorry.
COUNCIL MEETING 75 OCTOBER 5, 2016
The motion to amend Bill No. 2636, as circulated, as shown in the Floor
Amendment, which is attached hereto as Attachment 1 was then put, and
carried by a vote of 6:0:1 (Councilmember Kuali`i was excused).
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. We are not back to the main
motion. Is there any further discussion on the main motion?
Councilmember Kagawa: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: If what I said about paying for the stamps was
inappropriate, then I am sorry. Let us just get him the list and the Kauai Board of
Realtors can do whatever they deem they want. But there is no obligation intended
from this Council. Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Is there really a list?
Council Chair Rapozo: Oh, yes, there has to be a list. Yes, he has
acknowledged in the affirmative.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any further discussion? If not, roll
call.
The motion for adoption of Bill No. 2636, as amended, on second and final
reading, and that it be transmitted to the Mayor for his approval was then put,
and carried by the following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Chock, Hooser, Kagawa, Kaneshiro,
Yukimura, Rapozo TOTAL— 6,
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Kuali`i TOTAL — 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Six (6) ayes, one (1) excused.
Council Chair Rapozo: With that, there is no further business. With
no objection, this meeting will be adjourned. The public hearings will be at 1:30 p.m.
here in the Council Chambers.
COUNCIL MEETING 76 OCTOBER 5, 2016
ADJOURNMENT.
There being no further business, the Council Meeting adjourned at 12:13 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
st4tSielb
SCOTT K. SATO
Deputy County Clerk
:aa
Attachment 1
(October 5, 2016)
FLOOR AMENDMENT
Bill No. 2636, A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING SUBSECTION
8-15.1(d)(7), KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO
ADDITIONAL DWELLING UNITS (County of Kaua`i, Applicant)
Introduced By: ROSS KAGAWA
Amend Bill No. 2636 by amending Proposed SECTION 1 to read as follows:
"SECTION 1. Chapter 8, Kaua`i County Code 1987, as amended,
is hereby amended by amending Subsection 8-15.1(d)(7) to read as follows:
"The applicant shall obtain a re-certification from the Planning
Department certifying that applicant has met the requirements set
forth in Sec. 8-15.1(d)(6). A regulatory fee of Two Hundred Fifty
Dollars ($250.00) shall be charged upon registration for a
re-certification. If the applicant fails to obtain a re-certification by
[February 15, 2015,] June 30, 2017, the entitlement to the additional
dwelling unit shall be deemed terminated and no building permit shall
be issued for the additional dwelling unit. The Planning Director shall
notify the applicant in writing that the entitlement to the additional
dwelling unit has been terminated. The applicant may appeal the
termination to the Planning Commission in accordance with the Rules
of Practice and Procedure of the Planning Commission."
(Material to be deleted is bracketed. New material is underscored.)
V:\AMENDMENTS\2016\2016.773 Floor Amendment 10-05-2016 Bill No 2636 ADU Date RK_JA_mn.doc