HomeMy WebLinkAbout 05/19/2015 Public hearing transcript on BILL#2587 PUBLIC HEARING
MAY 19, 2015
A public hearing of the Council of the County of Kaua`i was called to order by
Mason K. Chock, Chair, Planning Committee, on Tuesday, May 19, 2015, at
1:30 p.m., at the Council Chambers, 4396 Rice Street, Suite 201, Historic County
Building, Lihu`e, and the presence of the following was noted:
Honorable Mason K. Chock
Honorable Gary L. Hooser
Honorable Ross Kagawa (present at 1:48p.m.)
Honorable Arryl Kaneshiro
Honorable KipuKai Kuali`i (present at 1:33 p.m.)
Honorable JoAnn A. Yukimura
Honorable Mel Rapozo
The Clerk read the notice of the public hearing on the following:
"Bill No. 2587 — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
CHAPTER 8, KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO
HOMESTAYS,"
which was passed on first reading and ordered to print by the Council of the County
of Kaua`i on April 22, 2015, and published in The Garden Island newspaper on
April 30, 2015.
The following communications were received for the record:
1. Alahan, Vel and Valli, May 6, 2015
2. Breen, David, May 19, 2015
3. Breen, Lisa, May 2, 2015
4. Edmonds, Harvest, May 18, 2015
5. Imparato, Carl, May 19, 2015
6. Pacuilla, Paul and Diamond, Caren, May 19, 2015
7. Kaaumoana, Makaala, May 19, 2015
8. Robeson, Barbara and Diamond, Caren, May 19, 2015
9. Rutzick, Sharon and Bill, April 28, 2015
The hearing proceeded as follows:
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you, Clerk. How many registered
speakers do we have? You are not sure? Plenty? Okay. Good afternoon again. If
anyone is interested in testifying this afternoon please sign up here at the front.
You will all be allowed three (3) minutes to speak on the Bill. If you desire a second
three (3) minutes, you can do so as well. Some people have asked to come up in a
team or in a couple. That is fine. You will still have three (3) minutes and be able
to come up for an additional three (3) minutes. Can we call the first speaker up?
JADE K. FOUNTAIN-TANIGAWA, County Clerk: The first speaker is Greg
Allen, followed by Joanne Allen.
PUBLIC HEARING 2 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
GREG ALLEN: Hello Council. Greg Allen. Thank you for
your time. I would like to say that we are all here because of the County's Transient
Vacation Rentals (TVR) ordinance, which was proposed to address some
neighborhood concerns. Now, that TVR ordinance has become an islandwide taking
of people's property rights. Ambiguities and lack of proper vetting during the
County's possible violation discovery process has resulted in erroneous enforcement.
I think because of its controversial nature, the Planning Department did not enforce
the ordinance for several years until another ordinance was made by a previous
County Council that forced them to enforce this ordinance. Enforcement efforts
have been aggressive and vicious: condemnations of people's behavior, claims of
criminal behavior, and calling them "dishonest." I do not know where the
presumption of innocence has gone, until proven guilty. I would like to point out
that transient and TVR refers primarily to the nonresident owners. When the
ordinance was being vetted by the old County Council, they stated that they were
not going to be talking about homestays because those were local residents. They
were only going to go after those who did not live here. "Leave the residents that
live here, who are friends and neighbors, alone." Regarding homestays, there has
been no definition yet and there is no ordinance because there are many gray areas
in the TVR ordinance and many supposed violators; many of which who have lived
here a long time and run good businesses, been good stewards, and had no
neighborhood conflicts. Some of them opted to say, "Okay, fine. We are going to
operate as a homestay." They have been brought into contested case hearings. The
Commission says, "They skirt the law." It is a law that does not exist. Today we
are looking at that law in the form of a bill. So we are really at a place where we
could begin to make some new changes. The Planning Department's tactics have
been bullying tactics. They have threatened people, levied large fines, and have
made criminal charges. They even fined owners for trumped up Special
Management Area (SMA) violations when their building and certificate paperwork
was correct. The result of all this abuse has been that the department got scolded
by several lawyers and they seemed to have stopped doing anything for the
meantime. It is interesting that the Planning Department sent out a violation
notice to a whole bunch of homestay people even before they had a homestay
ordinance. The department's violation evidence is based on a tax questionnaire that
requires people to fill it out and mark it, whether they are a "vacation rental." It is
the only choice. So people who want to be honest mark "vacation rental" because
they are paying Transient Accommodation Tax (TAT) taxes, and then they are
taken as people that are violating an ordinance that does not yet exist. The problem
with this has been that...
(Councilmember Kuali i was noted as present at 1:33 p.m.)
Committee Chair Chock: That was your three (3) minutes. Next
speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Joanne Allen, followed
by Merlyn Ruddell.
JOANNE ALLEN: My name is Joanne Allen. I understand that
there needs to be a definition of "homestay" that separates it from a "vacation
rental." The difference is that someone lives there full-time. I object to that the
person living there has to be the property owner. If an owner is tied to the
homestay, she can never retire, never have health issues that cause her to live in
full-time care, never expand to the property next door, and never have a family
member run the homestay for her. I ask that as long as there is a full-time resident
PUBLIC HEARING 3 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
living on the property, it should fall under the homestay definition. Please keep the
old wording to allow the owner to have a resident "live-in" manager for the property.
Regarding the Planning Commission only reviewing ten (10) applications per
homestay per year—I believe this is a tactic being used by the Planning
Department to weed out those that they have prejudged as violators. They have
decided that most people are in violation of their definition of homestay that has not
yet been approved by this County Council. At the recent Planning Commission
hearing, Ka'aina Hull of the Planning Department claimed that out of the three
hundred twenty (320) people they sent cease and desist letters to, the Planning
Department has already decided that roughly sixteen (16) are legitimate homestays.
He and Mike Dahilig repeatedly called the rest "violators," "illegal," "sneaky," and
"wolves in sheep's clothing," saying "vacation rentals are trying to disguise
themselves as homestays." The truth is that many of those are ordinary citizens
who are willing and anxious to obey the rules, whatever those rules are. We are not
hiding anything or trying to pull something illegal. We report and pay our
Transient Accommodations Taxes. Many people over many years have asked for a
permit and have been turned away by the Planning Department. We were told not
to worry and that we did not need a permit. At the last Planning Commission
meeting, Mr. Hull told the Commission that there has been a permit process in
place since the 1970's. If this was true, why were we turned away? We are trying
to obey, but the rule is a moving target. Ten (10) applications per year will take
thirty-two (32) years for all of us to get permitted. I am telling you this today
hoping that you will see that something is very wrong. Good citizens of Kaua`i are
being unjustly accused, fined, and shutdown. Bill No. 2587 will perpetuate this
abuse. Please do not allow a limit on homestay application approvals. Please do
not pass this Bill as it is proposed today. Thank you.
Councilmember Yukimura: I have a question.
Committee Chair Chock: We have a question from Councilmember
Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. Thank you for your testimony. Did you
say that you applied for a permit?
Ms. Allen: No. We went into the Planning Department
and asked and told them our situation and they said that it did not apply to us and
that we did not need a permit, and basically told us to go.
Councilmember Yukimura: You did not need a TVR permit or any
permit?
Ms. Allen: Any.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Are you on agricultural land?
Ms. Allen: No.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you very much.
Committee Chair Chock: Councilmember Kuali`i.
PUBLIC HEARING 4 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
Councilmember Kuali`i: When did you into Planning and ask and was
told that you did not need any kind of permit, including a...I think we recently told
the Special Use...Minor...there is a type of permit.
Ms. Allen: One of the times that we went in was in 2008
when we were being told that everybody needs to be grandfathered in and
everybody who has a vacation rental that, "You better come in and get that." We
went in like everybody else.
Councilmember Kuali`i: In 2008?
Ms. Allen: Yes.
Councilmember Kuali`i: After then, you said one of the times.
Ms. Allen: I think so, yes.
Councilmember Kuali`i: After 2008, no?
Ms. Allen: Yes.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Okay. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you. Next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Merlyn Ruddell, followed
by Lisa Breen.
MERLYN RUDDELL: My name is Merlyn Ruddell. I am here in
support of agricultural homestays. Just a little bit of background, my family came
in 1962 when I was twelve (12) to live on Hawai`i Island, I was one of the first
two (2) women to sale in HSkiile`a. I studied with Aunty Margaret Machado. I went
to Leeward and Kauai Community College. I started Island School with a group of
people and taught Hawaiiana there and I am really committed to Kauai. Kilauea
Farms was the first certified organic farm in 1990's. It was a lettuce operation. The
reason I am here is that I have been working...sorry, I am very nervous. I have
been working with a group of people, many of whom are in the room, and people
that are applying for the agricultural homestays coming up on the June 23rd
Planning Commission meeting and trying to come up with something that would
address the issues that have been raised: the thing of using this as a way to have a
pseudo TVR or a fake farm, driving up land prices, and the kinds of things that are
problems with TVRs and a way to say, "No, we are not doing that. That does not
work. That is bad for the community," or whatever it has been. We put that behind
us. There are no complaints. For this, it would be that you would have to be a
homeowner. He would have to reside in your place, you would have to show
substantial farming and production that gets distributed in the community one way
or the other, and you would have to renew it annually. When it comes to
speculators, if a speculator buys it, they would have to be a homeowner. They
would not be the "Julia Roberts speculator." It would have to be somebody who
wants to make Kauai their home and they would have to continue to farm. The
year they did not come in with a permit, it goes away because you have to renew it,
just like you have to do with other permits of this kind. I know that I have given up
a lot of my minutes yacking away, but I made a proposal and I vetted it with a lot of
people that are concerned. It comes as a consensus and I hope it addresses some of
PUBLIC HEARING 5 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
the really big concerns we have on Kaua`i about driving up prices and
disenfranchising people who need rental homes that has come up before, and make
this something different that really works for Kauai. Thank you for your time.
Committee Chair Chock: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Hi Merlyn.
Ms. Ruddell: Hi JoAnn.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you for being here. I did skim your
written submittal and wondered how you defined "substantial agriculture."
Ms. Ruddell: For me, it would either be by filing a
"Schedule F" that shows a substantial amount of income for farming, but you get
into the problem like us...my passion is coconuts and I have collected from Pahoa,
all these Malaysian and Samoan coconuts, but they are still only seven (7) years old
and I am going to propagate them. It is going to be a wonderful thing. Many people
are begging me already for these coconuts and I have just little start. Am I going to
show "Schedule F" with a lot of income yet? No. My intention, and what I have
already prepared for the Planning Commission hearing coming up on the 23rd is
explaining my pro forma exactly how much I am investing, what I am paying for
labor, fertilizer, and all those things, how I anticipate to sell, and what kind of
money it will bring. In the meantime, I am already doing other things, so I have
some that I can show. We have like seventy (70) avocado trees in the ground, but it
is going to take time before it can produce. I do not want to cut people out who are
not making a lot of money yet because there are things like us where it takes time.
I think you would have to demonstrate that in a real way.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay, so we have had agricultural plans that
look good on paper, but they never got implemented, but they got permits.
Ms. Ruddell: So the point here would be that in this
program that I am recommending that we all talked about, you would have to come
in every year and show that what you said you were doing you are doing or your
permit goes away. That is it. You are done. There would be a mechanism and a fee
every year so that would pay for the administration, so somebody could really check
on your claim and you would have to be real. There are real people that do this and
I know there are people that fabricate, and that would separate the "wolf in sheep's
clothing' or something from the people who are legitimately wanting to serve Kauai
and love to farm.
Committee Chair Chock: Mahalo.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Lisa Breen, followed by
David Breen.
LISA BREEN: Good afternoon Councilmembers. I am Lisa
Breen. I am here today to address homestays on small family farms. It has been
thirty-four (34) years since my husband bought, cleared, irrigated, and planted an
abandoned sugarcane field in Kilauea. Over the years, he also created a thriving
landscape nursery. Our organic farm has been dedicated to agriculture since 1983.
I believe we have fulfilled our commitment to use our property to the highest and
best use of the land. We have a legally permitted guesthouse and its footprint takes
PUBLIC HEARING 6 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
up less than one percent (1%) of the square footage of our farm. In 2002, we began
welcoming visitors to the Garden Hideaway at Lotus Farm. We run it entirely by
ourselves. We greet guests and provide fresh fruits from our orchards. We educate
them about composting, recycling, and organic gardening. They enjoy nursery and
farm tours. Should they have any concerns, they know where to find us because we
are right there working and living on our farm. The Hideaway income has been a
welcomed additional to our fluctuating farm and nursery income. We have always
paid our General Excise (GE) and TAT taxes. Our "Schedule F" tax filings show
that our farm and nursery gross sales have consistently outperformed our homestay
rental income. I am certain that we are in the minority because farming is
unpredictable and provides no guarantee of income. When the Planning
Department workers arrived unannounced on our farm late last year, I welcomed
them as guests. I gladly walked them through our nursery and orchard and down
to see our guest house. When I was told after years of promises that the homestay
category of accommodation was finally going to be addressed, I replied that I
welcomed the opportunity to come into compliance. I was hopeful. After all, the
TVR law regulating single-family dwellings on agricultural lands has allowed
individuals with single-family homes, often purchased as real estate investments to
rent their homes as legal TVRs outside of the Visitor Destination Area (VDA). I
believed surely that the County would want to extend the same opportunities for
those of us who would spend our lives calling Kaua`i "home," contributing to our
communities, and working the land. I wrote to Mr. Dahilig to let him know that I
was ready to do whatever it would take to finally have a legally permitted business.
What that has meant so far is removing online advertising, suspending my TAT
license, returning over four thousand dollars ($4,000) in deposits to disappointed
future guests, and paying a five thousand dollar ($5,000) retainer fee to an attorney
to assist us in the permit process. We continue to pay commercial use property tax
rates, even though we have suspended our homestay business. Yes, it has been a
financial hardship. But if what comes out of this is a thoughtful, reasonable, and
well-conceived regulation regarding homestays, then it will be a "win-win-win" for
the County of Kaua`i, homestay operators, and visitors alike. Some of us long for
the past when life on Kaua`i moved at a slower pace. I think most people feel that
way wherever they are from. It is not just Kauai, but the whole world that has
been discovered. We can either resist it or embrace it, moving forward with
mindfulness. Please, I am looking to each of you to move forward and support the
permitting of homestays on agricultural lands on Kauai.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you, Ms. Breen. We have a question
here for you. Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Hi. Thank you for being here. As guidelines
for a homestay, are you suggesting that any homestay on agricultural land be
dedicated to agriculture? Does that have to be a requirement?
Ms. Breen: I think that is one of the ways...I think the
definitions under the dedication to agriculture is something that I looked at this
weekend as we were going over this. There is such a big range. It goes from
livestock to crop production to horticulture to aquaculture. There is a broad range
available. I know that when we put in our dedication to agriculture, since we have
done since 1983, we rededicated maybe two (2) to three (3) years ago again. We had
to provide a business plan that says how do you irrigate, how do you fertilize, where
are your trees, and what do you do with your nursery—all of that, which we
provided. On top of that, they wanted to see our "Schedule Fs" and they also
wanted to see a plot plan of our farm, which we provided them with. I think that is
PUBLIC HEARING 7 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
one of the ways, but like I said, I think what is important is that not everyone is not
going to make an income. There are so much that you end up having to put into
your farm, and my husband will come up next and he is going to give you the
lowdown on what it means to be a farmer on Kauai, but there is no guarantee. I
can think that I am going to have a crop that is two hundred (200) pounds or one
thousand (1,000) pounds, but you know what can happen? I might have just
planted that lettuce and there is a flood and I do not have anything to bring to
market that week. Those are the kinds of things where I feel it is kind of hard to
say "Schedule F" or dedicated to agriculture.
Councilmember Yukimura: How do you distinguish between someone
who is actually farming, and I have no question that you and David are farming,
from those who are not really farming?
Ms. Breen: I think one of the ways is that you use the
definitions that are used in the dedication to agriculture and you make them come
up with a business plan. I think another thing that we did was show aerial
photographs of our farm that show that you are in production.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Mr. Breen.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is David Breen, followed by
Jim Hoskinson.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present at 1:48 p.m.)
DAVID BREEN: Hello everybody. I am David Breen. I am
here to share my perspective on farming in Hawaii. I began farming in 1975 when
I was a laborer at a papaya farm in Maui. I moved to Kaua`i in 1977 and bought
raw farmland in 1981 when prices were still affordable. An idea being proposed is
that homestays on agricultural lands would be permitted if a family could show that
the income generated from agriculture was greater than the income from a
homestay. While sales from my farm and nursery meet that requirement, it is
important to understand that the steady income from a homestay will allow farmers
the ability to keep producing quality food for Kaua`i and to ride out the rough times
when climate and market fluctuations limit our ability to sustain our farm income.
Farming is a labor of love. There are continual obstacles to overcome. It takes
dedication, perseverance, and adaptability. Over the years, I have watched as
Hurricane `Iniki destroyed my barn and uprooted over two hundred (200) trees. I
have fallen ill with leptospirosis from agriculture water, had export markets
evaporate overnight, and kept my farms running through droughts and floods. In
the early 1980's, I was exporting two thousand (2,000) pounds of papayas a week
until an extremely wet winter set in, destroying the crop. I continued to sell fruit to
stores, restaurants, and I shipped my annual four thousand (4,000) pound
macadamia nut crop to processers on Hawaii Island. After `Iniki destroyed my
orchards, I replanted and expanded my variety of exotic fruits. I was also
re-landscaping other properties destroyed by `Iniki and saw the need for plant
material, so I expanded my endeavors to include a landscape nursery as I waited for
my new fruit trees to mature. For a long time, I sent avocados and citrus to Canada
on a weekly basis, but that came to a halt when mainland import laws stopped
produce from coming in from Hawaii for fear of fruit flies and other insects.
"Bunchy Top Virus" eventually wiped out my entire banana crop. Then the "Heart
PUBLIC HEARING 8 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
Rot Virus" came, which destroyed forty percent (40%) of my coconut trees. Our
agriculture water source has been reasonably dependable; however, there are often
breaks in the line and extended dry spells in the summer. After the breach of the
Ka Loko Dam, government officials considered decommissioning it, and still are,
prompting us to invest in a private well. Last year, we discovered Coqui frogs on
our farm, and with the help of the Invasive Species Staff, we were able to eradicate
them within one (1) month. Had we not been on top of it, it could have been a
disaster. The sugarcane industry in Hawai`i was shut down once. A government
subsidy stopped. We do not have a labor force that can sustain itself on third world
wages. Finding good laborers is a whole other issue.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Three (3) minutes.
Mr. Breen: Farm laborers have become a vanishing
breed.
Councilmember Yukimura: David...
Mr. Breen: I have one paragraph. Farming is a fickle
and difficult business with no guarantees of financial success, but sharing our farm
with visitors and letting them stay in our guest house provides us with steady
income. The price of land on Kaua`i already makes it prohibitive for anyone coming
from the mainland to buy in and set up a farm, as it would not be profitable. So
allowing homestays on agricultural lands will strengthen the small farmers' ability
to continue to provide fresh, local, and organic produce for the people of Kauai.
Committee Chair Chock: I thought that was going to go by quickly,
but I let you finish because I saw your written testimony. Thank you. Any
questions? If not, next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Jim Hoskinson, followed
by Peter Eacott.
JIM HOSKINSON: I am Jim Hoskinson, but I will defer to the
next speaker in the interest of time.
Committee Chair Chock: Okay. Thank you.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Peter Eacott, followed by Steven Ruddell.
PETER EACOTT: Good afternoon. My name is Peter Eacott. I
live in Anahola. Just to keep it simple, the application process to be restricted to
ten (10) people to me sounds totally absurd and I would encourage that we all feel
that a clear definition and want to see the correct thing done here. But to restrict it
to ten (10) people a year creates a situation that is almost unenforceable by itself.
So I would encourage you to open that to include everyone that qualifies for this.
That is all I have to say.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you. You have a question here from
Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: Are you agriculture or just a regular
home stay?
PUBLIC HEARING 9 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
Mr. Eacott: I am just regular person. I do not have a dog
in this fight.
Councilmember Kagawa: No, I am asking if the property you have is a
homestay.
Mr. Eacott: I do not have a homestay.
Councilmember Kagawa: You do not have a homestay. Okay. Thank
you.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you. Next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Steven Ruddell, followed
by Calvin Toyofuku.
STEVEN RUDDELL: My name is Steven Ruddell. My wife Merlyn
and I had a small farm in Kilauea of about five (5) acres. Thank you for the
opportunity to speak in favor of the homestay. I believe they are good for our
community and good for the 'xina. In our case, having a homestay makes it much
easier for us to keep our farm. Here are the benefits: we have many dwarf Samoan
and dwarf Malaysian coconuts that are rare and much desired, which we are
growing with the intent to sprout and sell to nurseries. We have special tea plants
brought in from O`ahu for propagation to sell here on Kauai. We also have
approximately seventy (70) avocado trees, which will be distributed locally and
export when the trees mature. We have other agricultural products in production
as well, including dryland taro, lychee, citrus, and eggs. If our goats keep jumping
over the fence and eating our avocado, we might have a couple of goats for sale. We
often distribute our produce to the community at no cost, including (inaudible) from
our (inaudible) taro. We cannot sustain our operation with the sale of these
products because of the high cost to produce. For example, our eighteen (18)
chickens lay enough eggs for us to sell dozens; however, the cost to produce a dozen
eggs is higher than the six dollars ($6) we can sell them for. I think they are
probably about thirty dollars ($30) a dozen. We farm because we love the coconuts,
the teas, the wonderful avocado, the dwarf apple bananas, the lychee, and so much
more, and we want to share. My wife, Merlyn, works full-time in order to support
our family and our operation, while maintaining all of this is expensive. I am
getting up in age. I will be seventy-two (72) years old in June and I am no longer
able to do the work that it takes. Farm labor is expensive here as well, at least
twenty dollars ($20) or more an hour, depending if we need irrigation repair work
and especially tree work is a lot more. The farm does provide jobs. All of our
planting creates crop diversity and availability of locally-grown quality foods,
improves the soil, and makes our island more sustainable in case of a hurricane or
shipping shortage. The County is now in a unique position to subsidize farmers in
agriculture without having any cost to the local government by granting the limited
provision of homestay accommodations. Furthermore, those guests who come to the
homestays have the unique opportunity to live on a working farm and do enjoy
living with the family who has lived here for many years. This exposes people to
what is best on Kauai. I do not believe it makes sense to require that an owner
make more at farming than in homestays.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you, Mr. Ruddell.
PUBLIC HEARING 10 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
Mr. Ruddell: This would treat unfairly growers like us
who are growing products that take time to mature. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: You have a question here. Councilmember
Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you, Steve. Do you plan to sell any of
your produce when you have a full...
Mr. Ruddell: With the avocados, for example, and the
dwarf Samoans and Malaysian coconuts, when we get those to sprout, we are going
to sell those to the nursery like Kaua`i Nursery and Landscaping (KNL) has agreed
to do.
Councilmember Yukimura: We are trying to distinguish between
commercial agriculture and agriculture that is just for a homestay. I am just asking
that question. Can you and everybody else who has read their testimony today
submit it in writing if you have not already sent it to us on E-mail? Can you please
submit your written testimony? Thank you very much.
Committee Chair Chock: Next speaker.
CALVIN TOYOFUKU: Hi. My name is Calvin Toyofuku. I was
born and raised on Kaua`i. I live in Puhi, where I have a farm with my future wife
and my brand new baby girl. I work for Steven and Merlyn in Kilauea two (2) days
a week. This income helps to support me, my farm, and my family. I help Steven
and Merlyn with planting seventy (70) avocados trees on the steep hillside and
produce a lot of avocado for sales on Kaua`i for their export. I also help to maintain
the rest of their fruit orchard, goats, chicken, pastures, vegetable garden, taro, and
sweet potato. I am working on a nursery with them with dwarf coconuts for sale.
The farming operation creates employments for me and other people working there
on their land. Well, I support Steven and Merlyn and being able to have their
homestay.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you. Next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Anne Punohu, followed
by Julie Souza.
ANNE PUNOHU: Aloha. My name is Anne Punohu. What has
it been? Twenty-five (25) years since we have been talking about this? I am still
coming to meetings regarding this. When you hear the stories of these individuals,
a lot of them were here before the hurricane. They are the legitimate farmers and
they are renting out their homes. At first blush, that is fine with me and I do not
have a problem with that. I do not see a problem with homestays if it stays in that
context and that context alone. However, we all know that these issues do not stay
contained. They are like fires that blow all over our island and they become real
problems, which is why we are here today. If we are going to do a homestay
ordinance, I will ask that no homestay be allowed in Hanalei. It is at its zenith and
cannot support anything more on the north shore. However, it may be more
amenable in other areas. I do not know. My suggestion is to take any people who
were farming a legitimate homestay and doing legitimate, vigorous agricultural
activity prior to the hurricane to be grandfathered in. The ten (10) limit now after
per year is fine as far as I am concerned, but I will tell you that there is probably a
PUBLIC HEARING 11 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
lot more than ten (10) people that should be grandfathered in prior to 1992, because
there were probably more than ten (10) people doing it prior to 1992. Of course,
they would have to have followed everything that...apparently I hear that
everybody has followed the ordinances and that they have paid their taxes and done
all of these things. If they can prove all of these things and that they have been
doing this consistently and continuously prior to the hurricane, I think they should
be grandfathered in and given an opportunity to continue, because I think it is a
good thing. However, my concern is anything further from this day further—no. I
would say that I believe in the homestay ordinance law, as it is limited to ten (10)
people per year and no more. That is my suggestion today for you after going to
these hearings for several decades and being here for every single rule and law that
has been passed in here. I just do not want us to confuse it anymore. Let us be real
clear this time. If people feel that they have been abused by the Planning
Department, whether those of us who felt that the Planning Department has done
nothing...if you tell people that they do not need any permits, and then you turn
around and tell them that they do and treating them like they are criminals—I do
not know if that is the best public relations attitude to have either. Let us try to
work on that. Aloha.
Committee Chair Chock: Mahalo. Next speaker, please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Julie Souza, followed by
Sam Lee.
JULIE SOUZA: Aloha Council Chair and Members. My
name is Julie Souza and I live in Kukui`ula. I am here today to support the
ordinance as-is. At first, I was not going to speak because a lot of us local people
kind of just stand and hang behind and let everybody else do what they need to do,
but it is not right. I think it is time for us to step forward as the residents of Kauai.
As I say, I am here to support the ordinance for having a cap on permitting the bed
and breakfast (B&B) applications. We cannot let the same thing happen like when
all of the illegal vacation rentals were grandfathered in. All of a sudden, they were
grandfathered in. They need to be permitted. For instance, look at what happened
in our little neighborhood. There are at least twenty-seven (27) TVRs and on my
end of Ho`ona Road, there are at least eighteen (18) alone, leaving me the only one
on the flat area of Ho`ona Road left. The local people feel intimidated by all that is
happening with this bed and breakfast, and it should not be that way. Why are the
owners of the bed and breakfasts crying about this whole permitting? Is it not just
illegal? Why do they think that they are above the law and that they do not need to
get a permit? Having the bed and breakfast...most of the owners are paying their
mortgages. Do you see our local families trying to do this? I do not think so. Look
deep into your hearts and follow what is on the table as having a cap on bed and
breakfasts. Besides, the more B&Bs that we have here on Kaua`i will lessen the
amount of rooms that our hotels and condos will have. Right now, the condos and
the hotels are the bread and butter of Kaua`i, and not the bed and breakfast. They
are doing their own houses. They are not using the labor forces here on Kaua`i as
the hotels and condos are. Mahalo for your attention on this matter.
Committee Chair Chock: There is a question here for you from
Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you, Aunty Julie.
Ms. Souza: You are welcome.
PUBLIC HEARING 12 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
Councilmember Yukimura: Do you know how many bed and breakfasts
versus standalone vacation rentals there are in your neighborhood?
Ms. Souza: Right now, as far as I know, there are not
any bed and breakfasts in our neighborhood. They are all TVRs, but I am sure that
if there are some owners out there wanting to get a little bit more revenue, they
would change one (1) room of their houses into a bed and breakfast.
Councilmember Yukimura: But they would have to live in it, too.
Ms. Souza: So I believe the problem there is the
enforcement. Who enforces all of this? Do we get a police in our own areas to
enforce? It is not right.
Councilmember Yukimura: No, you raised a good question about
enforcement, but you can see the distinction between people who live in their homes
and accommodate guests versus people who may live on the mainland and not be
around to be accountable.
Ms. Souza: But as it is right now, you can probably
count on one hand how many of us are living down in that area.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. The Bill is designed to tighten up the,
definition of homestay. Thank you.
Ms. Souza: I appreciate that. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Next speaker, please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Sam Lee, followed by
Jerry Ornellas.
SAM LEE: Chairman and Members of the Council. I am
here to speak in support of the ordinance. I did not originally feel that way, but
having read the current version of the ordinance before you illustrates to me that
this County is concerned about numbers, limits, and controls on process. That is
something that we support. Furthermore, we see this ordinance as being a
compromise to say the least under very difficult circumstances. We are agreeable to
a compromise, understanding that a compromise means coming to the center by all
parties concerned. I will just wrap up my comments by saying that I think that
seeking a compromise is the proper thing to do and we urge you to consider that
aspect and the benefits of that with this ordinance. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you. Next speaker, please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Jerry Ornellas, followed
by Keli`i Alapai.
JERRY ORNELLAS: Good afternoon Members of the Council. My
name is Jerry Ornellas. I am a farmer and property owner in Kapa'a homesteads.
I would advise you to take a cautious approach on the bed and breakfast operations
in agricultural areas for several reasons: primarily, we lack an overall strategy on
how to deal with agrotourism on Kauai. We have really no guiding document to tell
PUBLIC HEARING 13 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
us. If this ordinance is passed, I believe it is going to create a lot of problems for
some of our farmers. We have heard a litany now of hardship cases. A good week
for me...when I talk about a good week...and I work every day—if after expenses I
end up with five hundred dollars ($500), that is a good week for me. Somebody
running a B&B is going to be making an excess of two thousand dollars ($2,000) a
week, right? This is going to be a neighbor...
Committee Chair Chock: Please keep it down.
Mr. Ornellas: Well, maybe I am mistaken. I have never
run one. I do not know what they make, but I am sure it is significant. It is a lot
more than five hundred dollars ($500) a week, I would assume. These are the guys
that are going to complain when I start my tractor up at 7:00 a.m. The other point I
want to make has to do with the farm dwelling agreement. The last time I brought
up the farm dwelling agreement to this body, one of the Councilmembers laughed
out loud. Those of you who are familiar with this document know that anybody who
builds a house on agricultural land has to sign one of these agreements and they
have to have it notarized. It goes along with your deed to the Bureau of
Conveyances. It says, "The dwelling shall only be occupied by a family as defined by
the State Land Use District regulations as recited herein, who derive income from
the agricultural activity on the parcel." That is pretty straightforward. The County
has chosen to ignore enforcement of this, which is basically a State law, as did other
counties in the State. I think we are seeing the results today.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you. Any questions? If not, next
speaker, please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Keli`i Alapai, followed by
Darryl and Julie Chong.
KELI`I ALAPAI: Aloha mai kakou. Thank you for this
afternoon. For the record, my name is Keli`i Alapai from Ha`ena. I am in support of
agricultural homestay. I think those that are working hard to provide food or
whatever it may be...it is the best thing. They are trying to make a living. I am
against those that own TVRs that do not live here and are not on this island. These
people live here and are working to make a living. They provide work for the
community, too. I know families that are agricultural homestays. They provide me
with work, too. I think that is a good thing, Council. I will advise you to really look
into this and give it a good thought. Our island is only so big. We have to take care
of our aina; take care of our island; and take care of our people. I can speak
because I am from Ha'ena. I am with an organization called "Hui Maka`ainana 0
Makana." What we are doing out there is to sustain the families. I come here in
support of agriculture and I invite you if you are down that side to come and visit us
and check us out. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Mahalo nui. Next.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speakers are Darryl and Julie
Chong, followed by Kirby Guyer.
(Councilmember Kaneshiro is noted as having left the meeting at 2:17p.m.)
DARRYL AND JULIE CHONG: Aloha Councilmembers. My name is
Darryl and Julie Chong. We would like to address the portion of Bill No. 2587 that
PUBLIC HEARING 14 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
proposes no more than ten (10) applications for homestay operations be reviewed by
the Planning Commission each calendar year. I humbly request that the entire
portion of the Bill be removed and replaced with something similar to "the Planning
Department shall be granted the authority to issue conditional use permits to
homestays and bed and breakfast operations that can meet and provide the
necessary tax records and building requirements to show a legitimate short-term
transient rental operation while they await final review and approval for their use
permits by the Planning Commission." To discuss this topic, we need to refer back
to the 2008 TVR regulations that set the precedence and standards for all
short-term transient rentals on Kaua`i and how they should be handled and treated
with equal consideration. If memory serves us correctly, in the earlier drafts of
Bill No. 864, TVRs and homestays were grouped together and were later separated
with the homestays and B&Bs being excluded from the piece of legislation partly
because of the owner-occupant component. Approximately between the time of 2008
and 2010, TVR owners were encouraged to apply for Nonconforming Use (NCU)
Permits while still being allowed to run their businesses without interruptions or
consequences. This was not the case for homestay owners. Beginning in 2014,
homestays and B&B owners were sent notifications with ultimatums to cease and
desist operations within a fourteen (14) day period or be subject to fines upward of
ten thousand dollars ($10,000) a day. Further instructions were to remove
advertising websites and cancel all rental obligations, which meant refunding rental
deposits and displacing guests on short notice. For TVRs and homestay operations,
to be treated equally, we request that the cease and desist orders that were sent out
be retracted...
Committee Chair Chock: Mr. Chong, I am going to ask you folks to
come back because I know you have another page to speak on.
(Councilmember Kaneshiro was noted as present in the meeting at 2:19 p.m.)
Mr. Chong: Okay.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Kirby Guyer, followed by
Bruce Fehring.
KIRBY GUYER: Aloha. My name is Kirby Guyer. My
husband's name is Toby. He is gardening right now, but I am not on agricultural
land. I have a bed and breakfast that I have had for thirty (30) years on the north
shore of Kauai. I am not a TVR; I am a bed and breakfast. Every morning between
7:30 a.m. and 9:00 a.m., all of you are welcomed to come and join us at breakfast.
My story is that I started in a one (1) bedroom, one (1) bathroom house and slept in
the front room and rented the one back so that I can show my guests how beautiful
this place was and how sincere it was. I still do that and so does my husband. In
the year 2000, we were finally able to purchase a piece of land in the residential
area. It was Kobayashi subdivision in Wainiha. We planned our home specifically
as a bed and breakfast. Our past years of experience was our guide. There was
everything in this home that independent travelers would want and alternative
accommodation. We share our large main kitchen with all of our guests. We have
our own bedroom, office space, bathroom, and utility kitchen for baking and
breakfast preparation. All of our rooms are under one (1) roof. Our home was
completed in 2004. We have been operating 24/7 ever since. We live in our home.
We enter through the same door as our guests. We pay all of our taxes monthly, we
have a homeowner's exemption, paved parking, and a septic system sized to
accommodate our bedrooms. We applied for a use permit back in July with the help
PUBLIC HEARING 15 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
of an attorney, because I could not figure it out myself. Prior to that date, we had
no idea that we needed one and our ignorance is no excuse. Our permit has been
accepted and we had a hearing on January 18th by the Planning Commission. It has
been deferred and I guess it is possibly in your hands at this moment to make
definitions. At the last Planning Commission meeting where I also testified, I said,
"Let us get the definitions. Let us finally get this done." We sincerely hope that
this is at least a start of that process. I thank you so much for being here for us
right now, because it is a start. I sincerely hope that the definitions of businesses
such as ours can be refined by the Council. The process of just closing down locally
owned and operated family businesses does not make a lot of sense. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you. I have a question. You said your
permit was deferred. Was there a reason that was given?
Ms. Guyer: Yes. During the Planning Commission
hearing on January 18th, Ms. Diamond and Ms. Robeson filed a notice of
intervention because they...for whatever reason...I still have not figured
out...perhaps they think I am not good for the community. They also have not been
to my Fourth of July party that three hundred (300) people come to.
Committee Chair Chock: You have one more question here from
Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Hi Kirby. You said that you are not on
agricultural land and that you are on residential zoned land.
Ms. Guyer: I am on residential land.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. How many rooms do you have? How
many visitors can you accommodate?
Ms. Guyer: In four (4) rooms, I can accommodate
eight (8) people.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay, but four (4) rooms?
Ms. Guyer: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Bruce Fehring, followed
by Sean Tesla.
BRUCE FEHRING: Councilmembers, thank you for hearing my
testimony. My name is Bruce Fehring. I have been a resident of Kilauea for over
twenty-eight (28) years. My wife Cindy and I have raised our five (5) children here.
Some were born here and some have died here. This is our home and this is where
we plan to live for the rest of our lives. We love our farm, our community, and our
friends, and our lives here. I consider myself both a local and kama aina. We
operate a diverse sustainable, family farm. We grow a wide variety of row crops,
including many types of greens, herbs, root vegetables, and sugarloaf pineapple of
which we have approximately one thousand five hundred (1,500) planted. Our
PUBLIC HEARING 16 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
orchards include a total of over one hundred (100) fruit bearing trees, representing
over thirty-five (35) varieties. We have planted over four hundred (400) hardwood
trees for future financial security so that our children and our grandchildren can
continue on with our farming project. Produce is harvested regularly and is
available at our farm stand, as well as taken weekly to the Kilauea farmers market.
We also raise chickens and ducks for eggs, have two (2) dairy cows, which are
pastured and rotated around the farm who will hopefully be producing milk in the
near future. We have two (2) active beehives from which we harvest honey on the
farm and hope to increase that number yearly. Nothing goes to waste on our farm.
If it is not sold, donated, or eaten by ourselves, it is fed to the animals or composted
to enhance our soil fertility. We are all aware of what the world's oldest profession
is, but are we aware of what the world's accommodation is? It is homestays.
Farming for profit without government subsidies is not an easy road home. To
create supplemental income, we wish to continue to operate a homestay on our
farm. We have the support of our neighbors and have had no complaints from
anyone. We paid our GE taxes, TVR taxes, and property taxes regularly for many
years, and we contribute to the local economy by creating jobs and by spending most
of what we profit, we can manage right here on Kauai. Many guests who have
passed through our farm have been inspired by what we have created and do here
and have vowed to go home and plant a garden or create a similar lifestyle for their
families. Without supplemental income from our farm-stay, we would have great
difficulty continuing on as an innovative family farm. Our costs seem to be ever
increasing: property taxes, utilities, irrigation costs, labor, tractor payments,
equipment maintenance, fuel, and etcetera. Our supplemental income has kept us
afloat and enabled us to move forward in developing our farm. I wholeheartedly
agree with a revised homestay definition in the bill you are considering. However, I
have great concern over a limit of ten (10) homestay applications being considered
each year. If all of the existing homestays that meet reasonable standards are
allowed to be grandfathered, as is my suggestion, a more reasonable limit of
twenty-five (25) new applications per year seems appropriate. While the current
Proposed Bill does not allude to allow homestays on agriculturally zoned land, the
Planning Department has made clear that their position is to disallow it in future
proposed amendments to the Bill. Farm-stays are a worldwide tradition that has
resulted in saving family farms around the world. Please honor that tradition and
help us to continue to create local food security here on Kauai. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you. Next speaker, please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Sean Tesla, followed by
Barbara Robeson and Caren Diamond.
SEAN TESLA: Good afternoon Councilmembers. I have
lived on Kaua`i long enough to vote for most of you. I am not happy today at all...
Committee Chair Chock: Can you please state your name?
Ms. Tesla: Sean Tesla. As we speak, I am being evicted
by the actions of the County Planning Department because I am a tenant who
previously was hosting a very successful homestay in Anahola. The County gave us
fourteen (14) days to shut down on May 1st and I personally handled that shut down
and did so by May 15th. This brings us very current. The County is now
threatening my landlord and property owner to formally serve me an eviction in
order to not further be fined. That is just ridiculous. That is an abuse of power. I
am a resident being evicted. How do I find a new place with an eviction record?
PUBLIC HEARING 17 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
Fourteen (14) days to shut down a homestay? We paid our taxes: GE and TAT. The
property pays higher in property taxes as a TVR. The County Planning
Department going on record saying, "This is not a massive sweep going only after
people with discrepancies." We have no tax discrepancies and no complaints. Look
at what is happening under your watch. There are some extreme things going on
right now. I implore you to look at how the counties of San Francisco are handling
this on a bigger scale. They passed an ordinance in October of last year and there is
even a Nolo Press summary of how to interpret that. A very fair solution that takes
into account the differing opinions you are hearing: people who do not want them
and people who do want them. Millions of dollars have already gone into solving
this. I expect leadership and responsibility from you and I am telling you right now
that I expect that these people in these positions in the County Planning
Department be fired for their abuse of power, their malicious conduct in getting me
evicted when I complied with an outrageous fourteen (14) day period. Nowhere on
Earth is any county in the world asking for a fourteen (14) day shut down and ten
thousand dollars ($10,000) fines. Maybe five hundred dollars ($500). Maybe one
thousand dollars ($1,000). Pardon my French, but there is nowhere more P**** up
on this planet than the Kaua`i County Planning Department. If you have any
questions, I am happy to announce that I would like to leave you with some
material.
Councilmember Yukimura: I have a question.
Committee Chair Chock: You can leave that with Scott.
Council Chair Rapozo: She needs to calm down.
Committee Chair Chock: I am going to ask you to control your
language.
Ms. Tesla: I hope you can understand why I might be a
little upset.
Committee Chair Chock: You have a question.
Councilmember Yukimura: Ms. Tesla, was the owner of the home living
in this?
Ms. Tesla: No, she was not and that also was one of my
comments on this current ordinance. It should not be discriminating against
tenants who live on the property.
Councilmember Yukimura: You have the right to express your opinion,
but we are here trying to make a policy decision, so we are taking input from
everybody. It sounded like you were alleging that the Planning Department had
demanded that you be evicted. Is that correct?
Ms. Tesla: Yes, this is not an opinion. This is
happening right now. She will be fined unless she can serve...by an attorney a
proof of service that I had been evicted and I had the most unbelievable record with
this landlord and property owner.
Councilmember Yukimura: I would like to see the communication from
the Planning Department that does seem very inappropriate at the least.
PUBLIC HEARING 18 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
Ms. Tesla: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Will you please provide that copy, please?
Ms. Tesla: I do not know if I have that in writing. As
soon as I am served, I will have that. At this point, I am probably leaving the
island.
Councilmember Yukimura: Those are very severe allegations to make, so
I would like to have some form of proof that they are actually...
Ms. Tesla: Sure. If any media is here, this will be on
the New York Times. I assure you. This County needs to fix this abuse of power
and malicious behavior. It is ruining this County.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. We can understand your anger, but it
still does not justify that kind of language in the public place. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: You have one more follow-up question.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. I am trying to understand the
chronology of what happened. The Planning Department sent out cease and desist
notices to the owners of the property.
Ms. Tesla: Correct.
Council Chair Rapozo: So your landlord got a notice. You are a
tenant.
Ms. Tesla: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: But you were not a bed and breakfast tenant,
you were a long-term...
Ms. Tesla: No, I am a tenant and a homestay operator.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay, so I am trying to
understand...obviously, the owners are absentee?
Ms. Tesla: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: You were basically hired to run the bed and
breakfast.
Ms. Tesla: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Because they were issued a cease and
desist...
Ms. Tesla: We deactivated our listings and starting
letting our bookings run out. I worked with the property owner to get it listed to
sell. We are already shutting down and she is selling the property.
PUBLIC HEARING 19 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
Council Chair Rapozo: I guess I am confused because let us say the
bed and breakfast was seized—I am trying to understand why you would be evicted
if you would be a tenant.
Ms. Tesla: I am trying to understand that, too.
Council Chair Rapozo: But you have not received anything. Where
did you hear that you were going to be evicted?
Ms. Tesla: When my landlord called me on May 1st and
said we need to shut this down, which I then did within twenty-four (24) hours.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay, I got that part of it.
Ms. Tesla: Yes, and a few days later...I would have to
look for the exact date, but a few days later she called me to say, "This is really
crazy, but the County is now requiring that we serve you and show proof of serving
you or they will still fine us ten thousand dollars ($10,000)."
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. I think that is where maybe the
breakdown in the communication is. I am not going to debate you here. This is a
public hearing. We will have time for that at the Committee Meeting, but I just
kind of wanted to understand. I know that we are not sending out eviction notices.
That I know. So that came from the landlord? I will follow-up with the Planning
Department.
Ms. Tesla: Very good.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you.
Ms. Tesla: Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i: I just have a quick follow-up. You stated
"deactivated and started letting our reservations run out."
Ms. Tesla: Yes.
Councilmember Kuali`i: If the notice was to cease and desist...so you
stopped taking new reservations, but you continued to have guests past the point
of...
Ms. Tesla: That is correct. That is one of the things
that I would like to suggest be really thought about...asking somebody to stop
immediately when there is no formal permitting process that you can even achieve.
It is kind of like shoot, and then ask questions. We were caught between a rock and
a hard place trying to not disrupt vacationers and also transition the house and sell
it, and bring it to a graceful close. I really would like someone to maybe give the
County a little advice on how to do things gracefully.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Thank you.
Ms. Tesla: Anymore questions?
PUBLIC HEARING 20 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
Committee Chair Chock: Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: This is a process question. I would like the
Chair to exercise his right if there are "1' words coming out and what have you that
we cut the testimony off immediately. I think there needs to be some sort of control
showed by the public. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you. Did everybody hear that?
Watch your language. Councilmember Hooser.
Councilmember Hooser: I would encourage people to watch their
language as well and just be respectful of each other in general, because sometimes
it is not only swear words, it is other offensive framing of the issues.
Committee Chair Chock: Absolutely.
Councilmember Hooser: For the record, I did not think it was
appropriate for a question, but I think it is appropriate to clarify for the public that
the Council by law cannot direct the Planning Department or the Planning Director
to do anything. We cannot fire anybody. We cannot control them. That is the
Mayor's job. It is against the County Charter for us to communicate directly with
them. We have to go through the Mayor. So as unhappy as people might be, and I
also question some of the actions, it is not our role legally to interact directly with
the Planning Department. I just wanted to make it clear on that. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you. Next speaker, please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speakers are Barbara Robeson and
Caren Diamond, followed by Cathy Cowern.
BARBARA ROBESON: Barbara Robeson for the record.
CAREN DIAMOND: Caren Diamond.
Ms. Robeson: Aloha Chair and Councilmembers. I hope
that you have our testimony that was submitted. That is what we are going to be
reading. We are in strong support of the Homestay Bill as proposed by the
Planning Department and encourage the Council to move Bill No. 2587 forward to
the Council Planning Committee for their swift action and the final Council
approval. As the homestay definitions and other related bills progress, we will
recommend that to protect the health, safety, and welfare of our residential
community, none of the ten (10) annually proposed homestay or bed and breakfast
permits be allowed in the Hanalei District, which is from Hanalei to the end of the
road at Ke`e. The district is in overload with the current number of legal and illegal
TVRs plus the illegal number of homestay or B&B units in the district. Recent data
on the number of vacation rentals in the Hanalei District includes...and you have
three (3) examples there...the Hawai`i Tourism Authority (HTA) individually
advertised units was three hundred fifty-five (355) units in the area in the district.
In the 2010 consensus, the seasonal units were three hundred twelve (312) units.
The County of Kaua`i has a weekly TVR list that they post online and the permits
were about two hundred sixteen (216) in the district. Below that on our testimony,
you have the chart that came from the Hawaii Tourism Authority study. If you
notice there, of course Koloa and Princeville are in the visitor destination area, and
PUBLIC HEARING 21 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
also Hanalei is not. The percentage of the individually advertised units in the
Hanalei District is almost as high as those in the VDA. Almost fifty percent (50%)
of the County's approved TVR-NCUs are located in the Hanalei District, which
again is a non-VDA area. On Kaua`i, the Hanalei District has been
disproportionally impacted by the large concentration of visitor units again in the
Special Management Area, resulting in negative, cumulatively impacts. No more
vacation rentals should be permitted in this district. This map that you are seeing
there with the green dots on it...the source of that came from the website for VRBO
and those dots are TVR units that are just advertised on that particular website, so
that is not inclusive of all of the "legal" and then the "illegal units, homestay and
B&Bs that are available. You have the quote from the General Plan to the right of
that, and then the next thing for discussion is a civil defense map in the same area,
which is illustrated below.
Committee Chair Chock: We are out of time here, but I think we
might have some questions. If not, I just want to clarify that you folks are in
support of the Bill as it is without any amendments.
Ms. Diamond: That is correct. We are in support of the Bill,
in large part because of all the testimony here...all of the different things could take
a very long time for the issue to work itself out. The ten (10) is really like an
interim number until a more comprehensive ordinance is passed and if a more
comprehensive ordinance does get passed over ten (10) years, that would be one
hundred (100) B&Bs. Even at that ten (10) is a substantial number.
Committee Chair Chock: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you for your testimony. Your
accounting or the identification of vacation rentals...are they both legal and illegal
or just the legal ones?
Ms. Robeson: Are you talking about the third bullet on the
first page of the two hundred sixteen (216)?
Councilmember Yukimura: I am not looking at your thing now.
Ms. Robeson: The ones that have a permit, there are about
two hundred sixteen (216) in the Hanalei District on the Planning Department's list
that they publish on their website.
Councilmember Yukimura: So they are ones that are permitted?
Ms. Robeson: Permitted, yes, those have NCU.
Councilmember Yukimura: And the district is all the way to the end of
the road or to K6'0
Ms. Robeson: Correct.
Councilmember Yukimura: How many of those are in Hanalei Town
itself?
Ms. Robeson: I have it in my purse.
PUBLIC HEARING 22 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
Councilmember Yukimura: Can you provide that later?
Ms. Robeson: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: So these are essentially just an accounting of
the legal ones, not...
Ms. Robeson: Not the illegal ones. According to the
calculations from the Hawaii Tourism Authority and the census data, it is more
than that, about three percent (3%) more.
Councilmember Yukimura: What is it?
Ms. Robeson: If there are two hundred sixteen (216) on the
Planning Department list, census data had seasonal units of three hundred
twelve (312) and the Hawaii Tourism Authority had three hundred fifty-five (355)
that they identified.
Councilmember Yukimura: So there might be over one hundred (100)
that are illegal?
Ms. Robeson: Illegal yes, about.
Councilmember Yukimura: Are some of them in the conservation district
as well?
Ms. Robeson: I am not sure that those include the
conservation district ones, which we also have a list of.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Any supplemental information that
you can provide will be most appreciated.
Ms. Robeson: Of course we will be doing that.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you. You have one more follow-up
question from Councilmember Hooser.
Councilmember Hooser: Of the estimated one hundred (100) illegal,
that mixes up bed and breakfast or homestays and bed and breakfast and TVRs?
Ms. Robeson: It could, yes, based on this documentation.
This came from advertisement from the Hawaii Tourism Authority. Well, it says
"individually advertised units, three hundred fifty-five (355)." It could be TVRs,
homestays, or B&Bs.
Councilmember Hooser: But we do not know how many homestays?
Ms. Robeson: No.
Councilmember Hooser: Okay. Thank you.
PUBLIC HEARING 23 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
Committee Chair Chock: Follow-up question, Councilmember
Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Did the Hawaii Tourism Authority list the
projects individually so that you could actually see what made up that total of three
hundred fifty-five (355)?
Ms. Diamond: I believe they did and we can provide that.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Councilmember Hooser: I have a question.
Committee Chair Chock: Go ahead.
Councilmember Hooser: The questions just keep coming. Do the
numbers include individual condominium units in some of those projects?
Ms. Diamond: No, so that excludes Princeville.
Councilmember Hooser: Or Hanalei Colony Resort.
Ms. Robeson: That is not in there.
Councilmember Hooser: Okay. Are there any agricultural properties?
Ms. Diamond: No.
Councilmember Hooser: So agriculture is not an issue. Thank you.
Ms. Diamond: Our testimony is focused for the Hanalei
District.
Committee Chair Chock: Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i: So you are pretty clear that the Hanalei
District, as you are putting it forward, ends at the end of the road, but where does it
begin? When I look at this map of the bay and the green spots everywhere, there is
even a spot that is north of the river, so it appears to be either in Princeville or
down the bluff from Princeville. Where do you start the line for Hanalei District?
Ms. Robeson: It is related to the census data. Hanalei to
the end of the road is in one census district and from Princeville to Kilauea on is
another one.
Councilmember Kuali`i: So meaning down by the river...
Ms. Robeson: Right. Princeville, of course, is in the VDA.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: I know you folks did not finish, so I will ask
you to come back if you have more to share. Thank you. Next speaker, please.
PUBLIC HEARING 24 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Cathy Cowern, followed
by Lorna Hoff.
CATHY COWERN: My name is Cathy Cowern and would I like
to thank the Council for giving me the opportunity to speak to the issue of
farm-stays. Next week will mark the 25th anniversary of the day that Bill and I
arrived on Kauai with our two (2) baby daughters. We came with a vision of
growing trees on our steep agricultural parcel in Lawa'i Valley. We also had a
vision of including a bed and breakfast to help financially, as farming timber is a
long-term investment. We have been operating our bed and breakfast business for
twenty-three (23) years. Over the years, we have paid one hundred seventy-five
thousand dollars ($175,000) in GE and Transient Accommodations Taxes. Our
guests help to support nearby restaurants and shops. It has not been an easy
business requiring access to guests 24/7, learning how to attract customers in an
ever changing market, and having to somehow make it through the tough times
when there are no visitors due to hurricanes, terrorist attacks, and market crashes.
Through hard work, we have managed to create a good business, but many guests
returning year-after-year and the ability to hosts friends and family of our
neighbors. Over the years, we have tried on more than one occasion to get a permit.
Most recently when TVR permits were being issued, we tried to apply and were told
that since we were a bed and breakfast, we did not fall under those regulations and
therefore did not need to get a permit. We have never been told anything about
needing a use permit. I am also so offended by the treatment we are receiving in
the press and in online blogs. The receipt of a cease and desist letter for running an
illegal TVR business has been devastating. Having been told that we cannot get a
permit by the Planning Department because we are not a TVR, and then being shut
down for the very same thing is to say the least baffling. I am not sure how many of
you would relish the thought of having you and your spouse suddenly be put out of
work with no warning. It has been an extremely difficult time for me and my
family. I am at a loss to understand why, as long time residents of Kauai,
participants in the community, members of church, and taxpayers; we are being
singled out for this treatment and many nonresidents have been given permits to
operate transient rentals. We have raised our family here, put our two (2)
daughters through college, volunteered in the classrooms over the years, been
members of Parent-Student-Teacher Association (PTSA) organizations in their
schools, volunteered at church, coached soccer, volunteered with local theater, and
helped the Farm Bureau Fair every year. We try and donate time and money
wherever we are needed. I think it would be a very sad day if people like us were no
longer able to be on Kaua`i making a contribution. There are two (2) industries on
Kaua`i: agriculture and tourism. It is very difficult with the price of land to make a
reasonable living doing agriculture. By eliminating this source of income for
farmers, you are affecting the potential to make them a valuable segment of
middle-class residents. You move towards a population with very high income
residents, high income nonresident property owners, and low income residents who
service the visitor industry. I question the future of agriculture on Kauai where we
no longer grow sugar; we are discouraging the seed companies from remaining here;
and we are trying to prevent a dairy from developing. I wonder what agriculture is
being planned. I know how difficult it is for a small farmer to survive here and I
cannot imagine why they are many that are even trying to try.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you. That is your time. We have
questions here.
Councilmember Yukimura: Hi Cathy. So you are on agricultural land.
PUBLIC HEARING 25 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
Ms. Cowern: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: May I ask how many units or room you have?
Ms. Cowern: We have two (2).
Councilmember Yukimura: Two (2) bedrooms. Okay, thank you very
much. Just for myself, I apologize for what you have had to go through.
Committee Chair Chock: Next, please.
Councilmember Yukimura: I have one more question. You were actually
told that you did not need a permit for your...
Ms. Cowern: We have been told that we have been
watching you for years and that you are fine. Homestays are a bed and breakfast.
We are excluded from the TVR regulations.
Councilmember Yukimura: So they did not say, "You do not need a TVR
permit, but you do need a special use permit?"
Ms. Cowern: No, I was not aware of it. I do not even know
what a special use permit is until now and that I am paying a lot of money to get
one.
Councilmember Yukimura: If you have answers to these questions, you
can say it now or you can submit it to me offline. I would like to know who you
spoke to in the Planning Department and if you can recall about when like what
time, what date, what month, or what year.
Ms. Cowern: It was about one (1) week before they were
going to close the window.
Councilmember Yukimura: For the TVRs.
Ms. Cowern: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: So that might have been 2009.
Ms. Cowern: I will get back to you offline with who and
when.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Lorna Hoff, followed by
Tina Sakamoto.
LORNA HOFF: Aloha Council. My name is Lorna Hoff. I
certainly did not prepare to make any comments, not at this meeting anyway. But I
noticed...I am a B&B and I am on agricultural land and I am in Lawa`i. I have been
operating for about fifteen (15) years. I have lived on the island over fifty (50). I
have raised all of my children here and all my children have come back. When we
PUBLIC HEARING 26 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
were able to Condominium Property Regime (CPR) a property, which I understood
when we CPR'd, it is because our children needed places to live, and when that
became available, our children did CPR our property and they do live right next to
me. I know there are a lot of problems like the TVR, where people have come from
the mainland, and then rented out the house. Well, when we CPR'd our property,
we thought the understanding was that this is for the children of the residents
because it was difficult to find places to live on the island. But that is kind of going
off on a tangent. My main thing on my agricultural property is that with this Bill, I
would like really like it to be well-thought out, because I am in a situation where
my property drops off on both sides. It is an extreme slope on both sides, and I have
been in the landscape business on this island for over forty (40) years, working in
hotels and on my land. I grow exotic plants, plus I nurture plants that are sick and
I do this in conjunction with my son, who has the licensed landscape business. He
is connected to my property, where he uses my property in his business. We barter,
which because my slope is like this, his crew, which consists of at least twenty-five
(25) or more Hawaiian laborers from the west side, they tie ropes to my trees and
they go down the slope in order to do the weeding, if there are any weeds on the
weed cloth. My plants have been dug up, my lawn has just been verticutted for
another job. A lot of my plants are down at the Kukui`ula Shopping Village and
Koloa Landing because I raise Bromeliads. When people are talking about that you
need to show financial ability...that you grow more agriculture than you do take in
from a B&B...
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you, Ms. Hoff. We have some
questions here. You can go first, Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you for being here, Ms. Hoff. You are
on agricultural land. Is your land dedicated to agriculture?
Ms. Hoff: It is agriculture.
Councilmember Yukimura: Is it dedicated to agriculture for special tax
purposes?
Ms. Hoff: No, I am given a commercial tax.
Councilmember Yukimura: You are commercial home use?
Ms. Hoff: Commercial home use, yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. You have a home on that land that
has rooms for...
Ms. Hoff: Yes, I rent rooms.
Councilmember Yukimura: How many rooms do you have?
Ms. Hoff: I was operating six (6) and the Planning
Department told me I was a hotel and that I needed to cut down to five (5), so I did.
That came with their approval.
Councilmember Yukimura: Do you have a permit?
PUBLIC HEARING 27 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
Ms. Hoff: No. They also shut me down, too, because I
asked for several years to get that location and you could not.
Councilmember Yukimura: So you also asked to apply for permits for
your B&B and were told that you did not need any?
Ms. Hoff: Yes, and that it was not necessary and that
would be handled at another time. That was in like 2004. Maybe my husband
might know because he keeps all of these records. He might know who he talked to.
I am not sure.
Councilmember Yukimura: If you have that information, I am interested
in it.
Ms. Hoff: Okay.
Councilmember Yukimura: How many acres do you have there?
Ms. Hoff: About an acre or a little over an acre.
Councilmember Yukimura: That is your lot, not where your kids are?
Ms. Hoff: That is not where my children are.
Councilmember Yukimura: Right...
Ms. Hoff: But almost...
Councilmember Yukimura: They are all close by?
Ms. Hoff: They are right next door.
Councilmember Yukimura: They are adjacent, okay. We are talking
about your property, which has what you call a B&B or a homestay.
Ms. Hoff: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: It is also used for landscaping or a
landscaping business, basically.
Ms. Hoff: Yes, which is basically my son's because he
brings me everything that is almost dead or dying.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. I see. You have a family business.
Ms. Hoff: Or he comes up and digs up a full grown
plant because he needs it.
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, he is lucky to have a mom like you.
Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Ms. Hoff, just to clarify, your son and you
operate your business on your property, your one (1) acre as well?
PUBLIC HEARING 28 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
Ms. Hoff: A portion of it, but he has an additional
six (6) to seven (7) acres that he has a complete landscape operation. My material
that he specifically wants is dug up, transported over to his acreage, and the seeds
from my plants are used for propagation and for all materials that is not needed, he
has a large Morbark grinder that is ground for special purposes. It is not
commercial; it is his personal thing. So with my talking to you, it kind of falls
under...it is a different situation that has not been brought up, I do not think.
There are different definitions out there.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you. Follow-up?
Councilmember Yukimura: What is the total acreage of your children's
lot and your lot? I am just trying to get a larger picture of the surroundings?
Ms. Hoff: It is approximately ten (10) acres now. I sit
on a hill.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Around those ten (10) acres are all
agricultural lots as well.
Ms. Hoff: Yes, we subdivided it. We purchased it over
forty (40) years ago and it was a twelve (12) acre parcel. That was subdivided in
order to put a road in the back, and then came the time that we could CPR, where
were able to CPR for our children.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you very much.
Council Chair Rapozo: I have a quick question.
Committee Chair Chock: You have one more question here.
Council Chair Rapozo: How large is your parcel?
Ms. Hoff: One (1) acre.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yours is one (1) acre?
Ms. Hoff: Grandma gets the little piece, yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are you the operator of the B&B?
Ms. Hoff: I am, yes...well, I was...
Council Chair Rapozo: So you have one (1) structure on your
property on that acre?
Ms. Hoff: Yes, I have that and a farm dwelling.
Council Chair Rapozo: Do you live in there?
Ms. Hoff: Yes, I live in the house. I am there 24/7, my
husband and I.
Council Chair Rapozo: How many bedrooms in the house?
PUBLIC HEARING 29 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
Ms. Hoff: The house has five (5) bedrooms.
Council Chair Rapozo: How many of them are for bed and
breakfast?
Ms. Hoff: We cut down now, so there are five (5).
Council Chair Rapozo: Five (5)?
Ms. Hoff: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Where do you folks sleep?
Ms. Hoff: In the kitchen.
Council Chair Rapozo: You sleep in the kitchen?
Ms. Hoff: Yes. Do you want to know why? It has got
the best view. No, my husband is almost seventy-six (76) and I am almost
seventy (70) and in order to pay the mounting cost...I have commercial insurance,
property tax, and just all the expenses...we moved into the kitchen living room.
This is becoming an interesting situation, reducing my numbers down now, because
I had another room that I used and it is no longer that. It is a nothing. We took
that over.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, because earlier you said you had six (6)
and the Planning Department said it was a hotel...
Ms. Hoff: Yes, so we took that over, so there are
actually five (5) units now. There were our bedroom and our children's bedrooms.
That operates as a B&B.
Council Chair Rapozo: But that still leaves you with one (1) extra
bedroom, right? You had six (6)...
Ms. Hoff: No, I always had five (5), but I operated like
a connection to one of the rooms and that is when we shut that down because they
said that is considered a room...it is like a closet.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay, so all of these five (5) that you rent out
are in the same house.
Ms. Hoff: They are under the same roof, yes. It is a
huge home.
Council Chair Rapozo: One entrance? A private entrance?
Ms. Hoff: They all have their own entrance. It was for
insurance reasons and my children as teenagers...I designed the home to raise
teenagers, so I could at least sleep because I worked at a job that required me 24/7
down at Kukui`ula and Waimea Plantation Cottages. Sometimes I had to be out
there at 2:00 a.m. It was also designed to take care of my husband's elderly
PUBLIC HEARING 30 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
parents. It was also designed to take care of any of our children if they could not
function on their own.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. I just needed some clarification. So
you have five (5) bedrooms with five (5) separate entrances.
Ms. Hoff: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you. Next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Tina Sakamoto, followed
by Willian Cowern.
TINA SAKAMOTO: Good afternoon Council Chair and
Councilmembers. My name is Tina Sakamoto. I would like to thank you for the
opportunity to provide testimony on this public hearing of Bill No. 2587, regarding
the definition and policy of"homestays." There are some elements that I would like
you to consider when you are determining the exact definition and the policies of
this commercial enterprise. I would like to have a very concise application, an
annual permit fee, initial inspection for health and safety, and thereafter an annual
health and safety inspection. I think it would be good to have the permit
nontransferable to address some of the parking problems. I think there should be
parking per the number of bedroom space. So if there are five (5) bedrooms, there
should be five (5) off-street parking. There should be the annual required proof of
GE tax filing, TAT, and also the income tax filing to show that they are claiming
these fees and this business. I also think it is important that the owner is an
occupant owner that is on the premises so that we can avoid an owner who has a
second home and they do have this home that they want as a homestay as their
homestead, but then for the other portion of the year, it is not really a TVR with an
agent. I think that all of these elements are important. There is always the
problem of enforcement. Lastly, I think that we should move the TVRs, B&Bs, and
homestays into the Resort and Hotel tax rate. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you. Next speaker, please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is William Cowern,
followed by Alexis Boilini and Mike Levy.
WILLIAM COWERN: Aloha. The Bill before the Council is limited
in scope to two (2) issues, pretty simple ones really, but the issues require us to get
into history. When we started our B&B business twenty-three (23) years ago, there
was no one concerned about regulations. Ironically, our first customer was the new
Planning Director and his wife and they stayed with us for two (2) months. We got
our TAT license and GET license, but that was all. They even rode out the
hurricane with us. Things remained fairly stable for the next fifteen (15) years
until this TVR issue broke. The 2008 law was crystal clear and did not apply to bed
and breakfast operations. The subsequent 2009 and 2010 revisions did not change
that, but when it was passed, Cathy and I, as well as numerous other B&B
operators went to the Planning Department to check on our permitting
requirements. We checked again in 2010. We were all told the same thing, "You do
not need a permit. There is no B&B permitting process in place. We are not after
you." That is what we were told and I will be glad to tell you later who told me that.
PUBLIC HEARING 31 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
One individual did manage to get a permit application and submitted it. There was
no response for the last six (6) years. It is no surprise if there had been any B&B
permits issued in the last ten (10) years. This is important because a select few of
B&B homestay operators, with no warning, received extremely onerous cease and
desist letters ordering us to shut down, immediately cancel our reservations, cancel
your TAT license, or face a ten thousand dollar ($10,000) a day fine; all based on
violations of the TVR ordinance, which again expressly states that it does not apply
to B&Bs. There was clearly no permit process available and no warning, so
questions arose, "Why are reasonable, hardworking Kaua`i residents being treated
like this?" When we asked the Planning Department why these letters were sent
out, they pointed directly at the County Council. They said, "The Council made us
do it." I received a response from my previous testimony from Councilmember
Yukimura stating that the Council had nothing to do with it, and I believe her. The
Prosecuting Attorney stated that he had no knowledge of these letters before they
went out. The County Attorney stated that he was not aware if one of his deputies
had reviewed them or not. The TVR ordinance at least had some due process.
There was some time given for people to get their permits in place. There was no
shut down required. Why are we being treated like this? What the hell did we do to
make it like this?
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you, Mr. Cowern. I will ask you to
come back. Next please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speakers are Alexis Boilini and
Mike Levy.
ALEXIS BOILINI: Can we each do three (3) minutes?
Committee Chair Chock: If you two (2) signed up together...I am going
to ask you to give your three (3) minutes and come back like everyone else.
Ms. Boilini: You do not start until I start, right?
Committee Chair Chock: Say your name and that is when it starts.
Ms. Boilini: Okay. Thank you. My name is Alexis Boilini
and I own Marjorie's Kaua`i Inn. I am glad to be here. It is nice to see you all by
your faces. The Kaua`i County Zoning Ordinance Update, also known as the
framework "transient vacation rental and bed and breakfast facilities," adopted
July 8, 2005, is an established comprehensive framework for addressing the
regulations of TVRs and B&B facilities. The regulatory in nature (inaudible)
evidences the County's intent to establish a regulatory system for bed and breakfast
facilities and encourages the County to weigh the needs of all, prior to adopting a
comprehensive legal framework that does not include participation of all visitor
accommodation providers. There are two (2) references that I would like to include
in this testimony today. In the report, it strongly states, "Definitions are the heart
of regulations contained in zoning ordinances anywhere in the United States. It is
the lack of appropriate definitions in the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance (CZO)
that create many of the regulatory problems associated with TVRs and B&Bs. The
structure of any definition is essential to successful administrative implementation
and regulatory enforcement. I want to tell you that I am that lady on the hill that
you all keep saying you were not intending to shut down. I am one of only a very
small handful of classic B&Bs that serve breakfast to my guests daily as they "ooh
and aww" the incredible view of the historical Lawa`i Valley. They depend on our
PUBLIC HEARING 32 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
knowledge of the island, as far as safety when hiking and swimming in the beaches;
restaurants and shops; farmers markets; and one thousand (1,000) helicopter rides
and activities have been sold out of our end in the last twenty-three (23) years. We
can do these things because someone is there for them 24/7 at their disposal. My
place was built as a bed and breakfast and a little over a one (1) acre parcel of
mostly unusable agricultural land. Almost half of our property is a long three
hundred (300) foot driveway. No one thought that this land could be built on. We
are so steep that I would not be surprised to see a goat roll down the hill. The soil
tests so bad that the only fruit trees that we have ever been able to grow are over
our waste systems. The fruit trees are mostly enough to use for our breakfast bar,
in my daily recipes, and organic smoothies, with the exception of our coconuts and
our mangoes, which can be sold at the farmers market or donated. We do thin out
our (inaudible), which are also sold or donated to a neighboring landscaping,
Lorna's son. Under your proposal, I think that we would not qualify for a use
permit. We were both at a campaign luncheon...I believe it was September 2008,
attended by Barack Obama's sister, Maya Soetoro-Ng. It was right around the time
that you were all writing the language for Ordinance No. 864, which states that the
Bill does not apply to bed and breakfast units...
Committee Chair Chock: Sorry, that was your three (3) minutes.
Ms. Boilini: That is it?
Committee Chair Chock: Yes.
Ms. Boilini: You are kidding me. Really?
Committee Chair Chock: We have a question for you though.
Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: I will give you more time. I have a question.
You said Marjorie's Kaua`i Inn?
Ms. Boilini: Yes.
Councilmember Kagawa: Where is that located?
Ms. Boilini: On a steep slope in the Lawa`i Valley.
Councilmember Kagawa: Lawa`i Valley?
Ms. Boilini: Yes.
Councilmember Kagawa: What kinds of trees are the most sucessful?
Ms. Boilini: The mango trees. That is why the mango
trees can be used for the farmers market.
Councilmember Kagawa: I love mangoes.
Ms. Boilini: Well, I should have brought some. Coconuts
grow well, too.
Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. Avocado, as well?
PUBLIC HEARING 33 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
Ms. Boilini: We have around twelve (12) avocado trees.
Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: How many rooms do you have?
Ms. Boilini: Three (3).
Councilmember Yukimura: With separate entrances?
Ms. Boilini: Well, you come into a main entrance and the
rooms are downstairs. It was built as a bed and breakfast, very private. Upstairs is
the eating area, the kitchen; our office; and our bedroom.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. You said you have been operating for
twenty-three (3) years?
Ms. Boilini: It has been there for twenty-three (23) years.
I bought it from Marjorie (inaudible) eleven (11) or twelve (12) years ago. She did
try to get permitting even back then before we tried. She was actually part of a
group that tried to get permitting for bed and breakfast because she wanted to be
part of an umbrella of B&B owners so that she could get referrals from all over the
world. We came from Asheville, North Carolina. We had a very formal, large bed &
breakfast, so when we came here, we expected to get permitting.
Councilmember Yukimura: Right. When you said she was part of a
larger group, was it a group of people on island?
Ms. Boilini: It was a group of people on the island that
got together because they wanted to try and get permitting for bed and breakfasts.
I know Jonathan Chun did look that up for me. I guess she went in front of one of
the councils or commissions two (2) times. I do not know if it was with the group or
what, but I am sure we can check into that.
Councilmember Yukimura: If you had any information on that, that
would be useful to me.
Ms. Boilini: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: One last question, what did I say that you
were going to say?
Ms. Boilini: Thank you. I asked you, "JoAnn, when are
we going to get certifications for bed and breakfasts?" We talked a little bit and you
said, "I know exactly where you are. There is no way you could ever run cattle.
That is too steep of a slope." You also said to me, "When I become Mayor..." I guess
you were running for Mayor at the time...you said, "Come and see me. We will look
at that and take care of that." That did not happen, unfortunately.
Councilmember Yukimura: I meant that we would do an ordinance or
bill. I hope you understand that.
PUBLIC HEARING 34 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
Ms. Boilini: You did say that. Actually, I do go over all of
those bills and I looked everywhere to see if there was any kind of permitting for a
bed and breakfast and there were not. As a matter of fact, there was a news release
for the TVRs by the Mayor. On the second page it says, "This does not include bed
and breakfast and it will be taken up at a separate matter."
Councilmember Yukimura: What is that dated?
Ms. Boilini: This is a news release dated April 1, 2008.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Can we make a copy of that?
Ms. Boilini: Sure. This was from the Tax Office or a
question and answer page...frequently asked page on the Planning Department and
somebody asks about their bed and breakfast. It says, "There is no vehicle at
present for homestay/B&Bs to apply for a permit. The first round of applications
Ordinance No. 864 passed last year addresses TVRs, where owners rent out the
entire house/condo property and just those outside the VDA have been processed.
The plan for homestay/B&Bs rental is to go through the permit process once this
first round of applications is sorted out."
Committee Chair Chock: Can we get a copy of that?
Ms. Boilini: Sure.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you very much.
Committee Chair Chock: Next speaker.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Claudia Herfurt,
followed by Yoshito L'Hote.
CLAUDIA HERFURT: Aloha Council Chair and Councilmembers.
My name is Claudia Herfurt. Thank you for the opportunity for me to speak. I
have lived on Kauai for thirty-six (36) years. I am single and my home is my
primary residence with a homestead exemption. I have three (3) acres zoned
agriculture, but it is unusable farmland because it is on a slope. When I first saw
my property, I envisioned sort of a Balinese situated with terraces, but I certainly
did not have the funds to do that. Recently, I have cleared some land and planted
an orchard in the hope of being compliant. I have had a homestay business for
twenty-eight (28) years since 1987 and I have paid all required TAT and GE taxes.
My property has no immediate neighbors and was only me and two (2) guests
staying on the property. There is no adverse impact on the surrounding
neighborhood. I also provide plenty of parking on the property. Since my California
neighbor, who comes here only twice a year for a week, obtained a permit for his
five (5) bedroom mansion, I am hopeful that I would also be able to obtain a permit
for my rather modest operation. I depend on this business, since it is my only
source of income besides a very small social security payment of two hundred
ninety-two dollars ($292) a month. I have sat in on numerous hearings for TVRs,
and now for homestays; however, I have not been able to obtain a permit. With
prohibitive costs for permits and legal fees, and a proposed cap of permitting only
ten (10) applications per year, I may not be around to restart my business as I am
seventy-five (75) years old at this writing. So when the County of Kaua`i tripled my
property taxes and taxed me at a resort rate last year, I was forced to shut down my
PUBLIC HEARING 35 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
business on September 30th...I mean I forced myself to shut it down last year at the
end of September, because at that rate, I was not able to continue. I also received a
letter from the Planning Department to cease and desist with the threat of a ten
thousand dollar ($10,000) per day. I have been complaint and I have not had any
business for over seven and a half (7.5) months, which is very challenging indeed. I
hope I will be able to welcome guests again because they love my place and would
not want to stay anywhere else. I also hope to be "grandmothered" in.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you.
Councilmember Yukimura: I have a question.
Committee Chair Chock: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Claudia, you said you accommodated two (2)
guests. Was that in one (1) bedroom or do you have two (2) bedrooms?
Ms. Herfurt: There is an additional bedroom and
bathroom because some couples, especially the older ones, like to sleep in separate
rooms.
Councilmember Yukimura: So you have two (2) bedrooms?
Ms. Herfurt: Yes, but I never rent out to two (2) parties
because it would be a privacy issue.
Councilmember Yukimura: I see. Okay. It counts as one (1) bedroom
because you are accommodating one (1) family or one (1) travel group.
Ms. Herfurt: A couple, yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: I see. Okay.
Ms. Herfurt: It was an option for another bedroom or
bathroom, but only to one (1) party.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. You also talked about your California
neighbor.
Ms. Herfurt: My neighbor above me has a TVR permitted.
He is on agricultural land and he planted a few trees, so I have done the same to be
somewhat compliant, but he has a permit.
Councilmember Yukimura: Did you say that he recently moved here?
Ms. Herfurt: No, he lives in California.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
Ms. Herfurt: It is a regular TVR.
Councilmember Yukimura: That made...
PUBLIC HEARING 36 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
Ms. Herfurt: Yes, I am just below him, so I was sort of
hopeful that I may also be granted a homestay permit since I live here, spend the
proceeds here, and make my living that way to pay the taxes. I have lived here a
long time.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. You say you have a homestead...you
are not classified as an owner-occupant in a homestead tax classification.
Ms. Herfurt: Yes, I changed my classification when I
received a notice that my property taxes rated at the resort rate would be
twenty-two thousand dollars ($22,000).
Councilmember Yukimura: I remember your testimony last year.
Ms. Herfurt: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay, but we did create a commercialized
home use so that would be your category if you were to run a B&B.
Ms. Herfurt: Yes, I have to do the numbers and see
whether it is even worth it. I hear the fees are high and all of that.
Councilmember Yukimura: Right.
Ms. Herfurt: I may soon be eventually forced to sell my
home.
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, we hope that is not going to be an
involuntary sale. People do decide at some point to sell for various reasons, but I
hope not because of taxes. Thank you very much.
Ms. Herfurt: Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Next, please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Yoshito L'Hote.
YOSHITO L'HOTE: Aloha Council. Sorry, I am going to wear a
couple of hats today and they are not the same; I will make two (2) different
testimonies, so I wanted it to be very clear on that. The first portion is on behalf of
the Kilauea Neighborhood Association (KNA). I will start with that and restate my
name, "Yoshito L'Hote," for the record when I do my own. We were approached a
few months ago by one of our community members to ask for a letter of support to
make her case to the Planning Department to keep her bed and breakfast going.
We had a long debate and basically we thought that everything should be reviewed
by a case-by-case basis and there are very strict criteria that need to be followed
and need to be applicable. Because of that, it would basically screen and make sure
that it is not being misused. Those criteria would be first to present the request
letter, map location with her residence, five (5) letters of endorsement from adjacent
neighbors, and should not have any complaints against the thing. She needs to
describe the bed and breakfast and answer the questions from the board as the
practices, management, and operational usage. In her case, she is only renting
one (1) room out of the four (4) bedroom residence. She is always present when
guests are coming. The guests need to have a parking stall for their car and she is
PUBLIC HEARING 37 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
only booking through one website. There are also one more criteria, which we did
not discuss and that I feel is also important, is that the overall density of bed and
breakfasts within the community needs to be defined as well. Stating that, she
actually complies with all of those things and she has been a very involved
community member. We decided to support that letter, but I wanted to make it
clear that by no means we just accept bed and breakfasts across the board. In this
case, it is within a residential area, so this is in Kilauea. It is different from a lot of
people, who have farm issues. I think the farm issues are very dear to my...sorry...I
am just going to say on behalf...my name is Yoshito L'Hote, but in my own
testimony, I am in favor of the Bill as it is written, but I cannot make this because
we did not discuss it as a board, so KNA does not have that position. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you. Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yoshito, are you personally in favor of the
Bill that is before us?
Mr. L'Hote: Yes, that is correct. To the little exception
that the ten (10) permits should be ten (10) approved permits. The review process
could extend to more reviews than ten (10), as long as they only issue ten (10) a
year. We have talked about it with the Board that neighborhood associations are
very willing to support the Planning Department in doing a preselection process; by
no means throwing people out, but looking at applications and giving some sense of
compliance from the application.
Councilmember Yukimura: Are you saying that...are you coming right
now...so you are not testifying...let us say that wearing your KNA hat, are you
supporting one (1) particular homestay?
Mr. L'Hote: We wrote a letter of support of that one
particular homestay and we do not want it to be misinterpreted as KNA is just in
favor of the bed and breakfast because that is not the case.
Councilmember Yukimura: That is very helpful clarification.
Mr. L'Hote: I could not make it past any kind of a
position for KNA because we did not discuss this particular document.
Councilmember Yukimura: This Bill?
Mr. L'Hote: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: But during the hearings before the Planning
Commission, the KNA Board did support one particular application, but you are
here today to make it clear that that does not mean you support any and all
homestay applications.
Mr. L'Hote: Yes, that is correct.
Councilmember Yukimura: Also, that in fact you have some suggested
criteria to consider in the overall regular of a homestay.
Mr. L'Hote: Yes. We have communicated that to Mike
Dahilig, so he is aware of those recommendations.
PUBLIC HEARING 38 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you very much.
Mr. L'Hote: You are welcome.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Nicki Pignoli, followed
by Julie Chong.
NICKI PIGNOLI: Good afternoon Council. Thank you for your
consideration on this really complex and very emotional issue for many of us. I am
the one (1) B&B in Kilauea that KNA currently has supported, so there is my
background. I have lived on the island full-time for fifteen (15) years. I live in a
single-family home in Kilauea that is not on agricultural land. I have paid my GE
and TAT taxes and have been in compliance with all the laws as I thought existed.
I found out that there was one more that I did not know about. I received my cease
and desist notice, a nasty one at that, on February 9th and was told by the Planning
Commission, Bambi Emayo in particular, that the County Council made the
Planning Commission write those letters. If you did not, someone is misinformed at
Planning. If you did, then it is time to stand up and say you did. It is really
frustrating to not know who is telling the truth when we are trying to do what is
right and trying to get to the bottom line. The couple of things I really want to talk
about today is the inequity of treatment between the homestay owners and the TVR
owners. TVR owners have been defined as "non-Kaua`i residents," with most of
them living off-island. Yet, they were given consideration far, beyond, and above
what we, as Kaua`i residents, have been given. They were allowed to continue their
operations while the law was being put into effect and were told to comply, and
those people that had been paying taxes were "grandmothered" and "grandfathered"
in. We have no consideration being given to us. We are the ones who are "eking out
a living," so to speak or "augmenting our living" and paying that money back to the
island of Kauai. We are really being hit in the face. TVR permits did not seem to
be limited in number...maybe they were, but I did not understand it. Now that
TVR permits have been issued, homestays are going to be limited to only ten (10) a
year. Why did we not limit off-island residents and now we are limiting island
residents with numbers? One of the things I would suggest is that in the definition
of homestay, there has been some consideration about people who owned TVRs
trying to sneak in under the homestay by having business leases operate their
business. Why not define a homestay operation as only be run by the homeowner of
the property, then no TVR owner could be possibly using that property for anything
other than a TVR. If they could not live there, they could not rent it.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you. That is your time. We have a
question. Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you for your testimony. Are there any
neighbors that have B&Bs?
Ms. Pignoli: No, not in my immediate, adjacent area.
Maybe eight (8) blocks away.
Committee Chair Chock: There are a couple more questions for you.
PUBLIC HEARING 39 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
Councilmember Kuali`i: You stated that you paid all of the taxes and
fees that you knew about and had all the permits, and then you said, "I found out
there was one I did not know about." How and when did you find out?
Ms. Pignoli: I found out about it when I received a
certified letter from Planning.
Councilmember Kuali`i: How long ago was that?
Ms. Pignoli: I received it on February 9th.
Councilmember Kuali`i: So February 9th...
Ms. Pignoli: The letter stated that I. was a TVR and
operating as a TVR.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Was the letter even clear on if you were a
homestay/B&B and that you needed something?
Ms. Pignoli: No, the letter stated that I was a TVR and
that I was operating illegally and that I needed to call them immediately and shut
down within fourteen (14) days.
Councilmember Kuali`i: So based on what you found out though, you
said you did not know. Now you know. What have you done?
Ms. Pignoli: I have contacted an attorney, so Jonathan
Chun is representing me.
Councilmember Kuali`i: No, with Planning.
Ms. Pignoli: I went in and talked to Planning...
Councilmember Kuali`i: And they did say you do need something?
Ms. Pignoli: Yes, they said that I did need a use permit.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Have you initiated that process?
Ms. Pignoli: I cease and desisted, cancelled all of my
reservations and refunded all of my moneys, I shut my website down, I hired an
attorney, I have my use permit in process, and I am going to be heard on the 23rd of
June.
Councilmember Kuali`i: No, but the thing that you did not know
about that you now know...can you not do that and then be in compliance?
Ms. Pignoli: It has taken from February 9th until
June 23rd to even be heard in the use permit...
Councilmember Kuali`i: So you are in the process?
Ms. Pignoli: I am in the process, but it is a long, lengthy,
and expensive process.
PUBLIC HEARING 40 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
Councilmember Kuali`i: Okay. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: How long have you been operating?
Ms. Pignoli: Fifteen (15) years.
Councilmember Yukimura: So ever since you came...
Ms. Pignoli: The house had actually been operating as a
B&B before I bought the house.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. It has been in operation even longer
than fifteen (15) years.
Ms. Pignoli: Yes, it has been in operation since at least
1991.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. How many rooms?
Ms. Pignoli: I am currently just operating one (1).
Councilmember Yukimura: One (1) room...
Ms. Pignoli: I have a choice of two (2) rooms, so they could
either choose one room or another.
Councilmember Yukimura: I see. Okay. With your permission, Chair, I
just want to reiterate the clarification that was given that the Charter prohibits the
Council from directing any department that is under the Administration, under the
Mayor, from directing...I mean it prohibits us from directing any department to do
anything.
Ms. Pignoli: But that is not the law that Planning is
using.
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, I am just saying that we can be
removed from office if we do that. So just so you know that we did not do that and I
do not believe there is nothing in the record that shows that.
Ms. Pignoli: No, I trust what you are saying is valid, but
what I am reiterating is what somebody else said, which we were told by Planning
that it was not their doing; it was you guys.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you. I got it. I appreciate it. We
need to take a ten (10) minute caption break, so we will come back to the Chong
°ohana.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 3:32 p.m.
The meeting reconvened at 3:43 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
PUBLIC HEARING 41 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
Committee Chair Chock: We are back from our caption break. Next
speaker, please.
SCOTT K. SATO, Deputy County Clerk: Our next speaker is Julie
Chong, followed by Matthew Bernabe.
JULIE CHONG: Aloha Councilmembers. My name is Julie
Simeona-Chong and my husband and I live in Lawa`i in a three (3) bedroom,
three (3) bath home, and we rent in a residential area and we rent out one (1)
bedroom with a private bath. I am just going to continue my husband's testimony.
For TVRs and homestay operations, to be treated equally, we request that the cease
and desist orders that were sent out be retracted and any further issuances be
halted while homestay and B&B owners be allowed to apply for their permits while
resuming normal operations. In order to comply with County regulations, TVR
owner we required to apply for nonconforming use permits that were granted by
officials of the Planning Commission. As more and more applications were received
and reviewed, the permitting process was streamlined, and this allowed for faster
review and approval. Conforming use permits issued before...wait a minute...sorry.
Currently on the County's website, there are approximately four hundred fifty (450)
active nonconforming use permits issued before a deadline was placed where no
other applications would be accepted. This would unofficially mean that an average
of two hundred (200) to two hundred twenty-five (225) nonconforming use permits
were issued per year. They were not subject to any limitations on the number of
applications that could be reviewed annually. In contrast, homestay owners are
presently required to apply for use permits by way of Planning Commission review
and public testimony with an additional proposal to limit the amount of applications
that can be reviewed to ten (10) per year. For TVRs and homestay/B&B owners to
be treated equally, we request that the proposed ten (10) count cap be removed and
replaced with a permit review process similarly used for the TVRs. It is clear that
there is inconsistency and injustice regarding the treatment of TVRs versus
homestays in the use permitting process and we would like to see equal
consideration for all short-term transient rentals, whether they are in residential,
agricultural, or VDA areas. In addition to Darryl's testimony, I would like to add
that adding a cap of reviewing ten (10) homestay applications for use permits a year
would not regulate the homestays, but eliminate them all together. Speaking for
ourselves, it has been three (3) months since we stopped our rental and already
feeling the impacts.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you, Julie.
Councilmember Yukimura: I have a question.
Committee Chair Chock: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: First of all, can we have a copy of your
testimony?
Ms. Chong: I did submit it.
Councilmember Yukimura: Great. Thank you. How long have you been
operating?
Ms. Chong: Since March of 2007.
PUBLIC HEARING 42 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
Councilmember Yukimura: March of 2007, and how many...you said
one (1) bedroom.
Ms. Chong: One (1) bedroom, right.
Councilmember Yukimura: That is fine. Thank you very much.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you. Next, please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Matthew Bernabe,
followed by Greg Allen.
MATTHEW BERNABE: Matt Bernabe, for the record. Well, I do not
have a B&B or a TVR, but I am more against TVRs than B&Bs. That is enough
said on that. Another thing I would point out on hindsight is something that might
make this a lot easier to figure out moving forward, which would be to have all the
due process transactions made public, because as I pointed out to you after the
meeting, they did try to pin this on you...not you, personally, but the Council in
general as the backers of this issue that we have today. That would also help in
other issues. I just think that we should not let somebody plead the fifth or not give
the answer without a job resignation at the same time. So I think the language
being spoken over the last ten (10) years should be made public. That might help
moving forward. As far as moving forward, if it is in a residential, I am more
preferable to having them on a farm, agricultural land, because we have language
that advertises agrotourism, which is part of the zip lining and part of the quads.
They do have language in talking about agrotourism. For the residential side, until
we have tackled our method of getting taxes on our homes, this mass appraisal
method, I do not want their property to go up because they got two (2) to three (3)
guests and it makes them more valuable to sell it as a business, and my tax goes up
because of the way we do it. I think they should be in their own group. Not only do
they get a different rate, but they should not be classed with the residential
neighbors. The total bulk of them, if it is Kekaha or Hanalei, that is who should be
in their group for the mass appraisal bundling, to me. If those mechanisms are not
in there, then I am definitely not for it in residential. The other thing is, like the
brother said earlier...I do agree case-by-case because if you are sleeping in your
kitchen to keep adding rooms...I do not know how much your property costs, but I
own a house and we do not have to rent out five (5) rooms just to get by. They
sounded destitute to me to where they are sleeping in a kitchen. There has to be a
cap at how many before you reach hotel status to me. There has to be some specific
language and strong criteria. I am not all against the business, do not get me
wrong, but we have to be real about it. We cannot be sleeping in the kitchen. Or
like that other sister said earlier, she is the renter who has the business. I was
thinking that is not a bed and breakfast. You have to live there; you have to be an
owner.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you, Matt.
Mr. Bernabe: That is what I wanted to say. I am sure
there will be other times to talk about this.
Committee Chair Chock: I notice that we are going into second rounds.
Mr. Allen was one of our first speakers. Before you come up, Greg, is there anyone
else who has not had an opportunity to testify and would like to? We are going to go
to second rounds right now. If not, Mr. Allen. Someone has left a pair of glasses. I
PUBLIC HEARING 43 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
do not know if you are still in the audience or if you have left already, but we have
your glasses here. You do not need a permit for them. Go ahead, Sir.
Mr. Allen: Greg Allen. My earlier testimony was mostly
about the mix between TVR and homestay and how they are intertwined. I just
want to note for the record that the tourist industry has its ear to the ground. It is
prevalent on travel sites, "Watch out for Kaua`i. You will go and have your vacation
ruined. People come and their plans are changed." If Kaua`i destroyed my vacation,
I would probably never come back to Kauai. Anyway, now we are here discussing
this new Bill because the Planning Department has been really aggressive in the
TVR ordinance and the loopholes that are there, which have caused us to be here.
My hope is that you will not say no to this segment of tourism. It is a segment of
tourism that is not going to go away. People want to go to vacation rentals. We
have to manage it. I am going to mention real quickly that the one hundred
eighty (180) days is, from my understanding, not constitutional and never been
upheld in the Country, and that thirty (30) days as a short-term rental is the only
thing that has been constitutionally upheld, which if forced all the way to a
Supreme Court action, all of this could be moot because there would be a thirty (30)
day limit. Let us do something that is more productive. Maybe we can find a
balance. Let us keep our neighborhoods running smoothly and enforce noise
ordinances, parking ordinances, sewer system regulations, and we could add the
police to this equation and control our neighborhoods without taking people's
property rights. I want you to consider that Kauai is an island economy and we
rely on what we can to be financially stable. The County is a business and it is an
economic engine. I do not know if I am right, but I think I last heard that we were
about eight million dollars ($8,000,000) in debt. How much will this new Bill cost
taxpayers if we lose this revenue stream? If it succeeds in destroying the visitor
industry, what taxes will you need to raise to make up for lost revenue of possibly
one thousand (1,000) plus vacation rentals? How many families will you hurt? How
many families are funding their children's college education? How many local
maintenance industries like realtors, cleaners, painters, and professionals will be
unemployed? Please make rules to police our communities and neighborhoods. Do
not destroy families and our economy. We talked about the ten (10) permits. To
me, that is just nothing. It is a joke. I believe that the Planning Department is in a
bad position. They have been forced to enforce this ordinance. It is incomplete.
You have the opportunity to look at it and to stop action that possibly has already
been done illegally on our citizens and at the very least, some things have been that
were wrong. Please remember that freedom and the entrepreneurial spirit cannot
tolerate tyranny. We are a democracy. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you. You have a question here.
Councilmember Yukimura: So you run a homestay or were running a
homestay until you got a cease and desist order?
Mr. Allen: I do.
Councilmember Yukimura: How many bedrooms did you have available?
Mr. Allen: I do not own a homestay. I just help some
other people.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
PUBLIC HEARING 44 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
Mr. Allen: This will take a minute...
Council Chair Rapozo: Mr. Chair...
Committee Chair Chock: Yes, just answer the question if you can,
please. Can you restate the question so he can answer it?
Councilmember Yukimura: Were you running a homestay before you got
a cease and desist order, and if so, how many rooms did you have?
Mr. Allen: Four (4).
Councilmember Yukimura: How long have you been running it?
Mr. Allen: Since late 2010.
Councilmember Yukimura: Is it on agricultural land?
Mr. Allen: No.
Councilmember Yukimura: So it is in residential then?
Mr. Allen: No, it is open zoned on Anini Beach Road.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay, that helps me understand.
Mr. Allen: We were told by the County Administration
that the TVR ordinance would not affect us. We live here. When they sent us a
cease and desist, we said, "Great, we will just be a homestay." So we are one of
them who are "wolf in sheep's clothing."
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay, so you do not live in it? You are not an
owner-occupant?
Mr. Allen: Yes, we do.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay, you live in it. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Would anyone else like to testify?
Ms. Punohu: Aloha. My name is Anne Punohu. We have
heard some fascinating stories today, have we not? Of course as we all know, things
will flush out the way they will, but I want to remind everyone in this room of how
we got to this place. What we did after the hurricane in a giant land grab that
occurred on Kaua`i and everybody got a piece of Kauai, except for some of us who
are sitting in this room like myself. But I am here to support this even though I do
not have land, a home, a homestay, a farm, or anything. We know that we need
regulation and we know that we need to be fair. I think that some of the people
that have stepped forward today are extremely sincere and I think some of the
people who stepped forward have some really fabulous stories. However, I want to
remind everyone that if you continue to allow the overtaking of our opportunity to
live inside of four (4) walls to everybody else that can afford it, and those of us who
are the real "meat and potatoes" of this island...the ones that clean your house,
mow your lawn, or any of that; the class of workers who need housing. I have been
PUBLIC HEARING 45 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
fighting for low income housing for decades. This is a problem. This causes an
inequality, a huge gap in our entire housing structure. If we can continue to allow
the upper class/upper level...all of this stuff to go on, where are the people going to
live? I just got back from O`ahu and I saw people living under bridges, but I also
saw thousands of units that people can live in. Some of them are great, but they
advertise, "We will let you stay in our living room in a futon." They advertise that
on Craigslist. That is what we are going to get to over here eventually because they
are going to figure out a way to do it anyway. I just saw an ad for Honopn for some
tented thing for eight hundred eighty-eight dollars ($888). It is getting crazy out
there guys. People are renting tents somewhere in Ha'ena and saying, "Yes, there
is your luxury tent that you get to stay in." We need to do something and something
that works. It may bite some people in the okole, but then that is what happens.
We need to remember that everybody needs a house. Let us take care of the people.
Aloha.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you. Caren, you may come up.
Ms. Diamond: Aloha. Good afternoon Councilmembers.
Caren Diamond. I wanted to finish up our testimony from earlier with some of the
numbers. The County has permitted in the Hanalei District their TVR
nonconforming use permits: there are four hundred sixty-nine (469). Our of that
four hundred sixty-nine (469) in the Hanalei District, two hundred sixteen (216) of
them are from Hanalei to...not to the end of the road, but to the end of where the
County's jurisdiction is, so the beginning of conservation district in Ha`ena.
Predominantly, there are one hundred twenty-four (124) in Hanalei and ninety-two
(92) that were permitted in the Wainiha-Ha`ena area. Almost fifty percent (50%) of
the vacation rentals that were permitted are on the north shore in that small area,
even though it takes up probably the smallest geographical area. So that is why we
are saying no more in the Hanalei District. It really is out of balance. If you look at
our testimony that we submitted, the green blobs on it shows the VRBO
advertisements that happen outside of the VDA, which is almost the size of the
visitor industry in the VDA. If you look at the picture below it where you have the
evacuation map and you see that there is no evacuation for all of these people, and
it interferes with the health, safety, and welfares of both the residents and visitors
who stay there. So we have very real reasons for asking for no more TVRs, no more
B&Bs, and no more homestays in that area. I wanted to add a little bit to where I
think Planning says the Council gave them the directive, and it comes back from
back in September/October, when the issue was before the Council in TVRs and how
the County Planning Department was doing with enforcement. There were all of
these properties that claimed they were vacation rentals that were not permitted. I
do believe that the Council asked for enforcement, as well as the community. How
do we have three hundred twenty (320) more additional vacation rentals that are
claiming vacation rentals that did not have those permits? Again, that permit
number was four hundred sixty-nine (469) that were permitted islandwide. Three
hundred twenty (320) is a pretty sizable addition to that. All we are asking for is
zoning to be respected and residential areas to be residential areas, because with a
quarter million visitors coming here a year, if they all want to stay in our
neighborhoods, we have nowhere to live. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you. Would anyone else like a second
time to speak?
Ms. Pignoli: Hi, Nicki Pignoli again for the record. I just
wanted to say that homestays and B&Bs play a really unique part in our vacation
PUBLIC HEARING 46 MAY 19, 2015
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accommodations. Some people come to Kaua`i instead of going to O`ahu because
they want to come to a more "countrified" area. They enjoy being in a private home
and enjoy having breakfast with people who live here and learn about the island,
the local beach conditions, and safety, as well as the history of the aina. You are
not going to find that same visitor who is going to stay in a hotel. If they cannot
stay in a B&B here, they are going to go to Hawai`i Island, O`ahu, or Maui. They
are going to look for B&Bs elsewhere. These B&Bs that you are regulating...and I
am in favor of regulation...I would just like to state that there are three hundred
twenty (320), but none of them who are here today and none that I have heard of
have any complaints on record. We have been good neighbors. Our neighbors for
the most part did not even know that we were running B&B operations. We are so
quiet and below the radar. It is not the same as a TVR. It is not causing an impact
in the communities. We just want to live here and share this island that we love
with our visitors. Please let us do that and find a way that we can continue to grow
together. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: You have a question here. Councilmember
Hooser.
Councilmember Hooser: Thank you for your testimony. You
mentioned the complaints. As I sat here...this is our third hour or so...I am
learning a lot and it is good, but I was struck by the lack of...there is no one here
that I remember that has complained about noise next door or too many cars. Some
people have not been supportive of the industry, but no one has been here
complaining about the impacts.
Ms. Pignoli: Exactly.
Councilmember Hooser: So you are saying with your operation, there
are no complaints?
Ms. Pignoli: In my operation in fifteen (15) years, I have
never had a single complaint. The neighbors for the most part when I went around
the neighborhood asking for support letters did not even know that I was running a
bed and breakfast, unless they were personal friends of mine who knew I was doing
it and their parents stayed with me because their home was too small to
accommodate them. I think most of these owners here, if you checked with them,
would not have any complaints issued. If you checked on VRBO, there would be no
complaints. If you checked on Trip Advisor, there would be no complaints. We are
not causing problem, but problems have been created that are being caused that we
are feeling.
Councilmember Hooser: Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you. Mr. Cowern, I will have you
come up next.
Mr. Cowern: Bill Cowern again. Just on a personal note,
we tried about nineteen (19) years ago to set up a tree farm business. We saw an
opportunity that when the sugar companies were going out that we might be able to
do something that would be meaningful for the island. I believe next week, we will
start delivering our first loads of chips to this new power plant, which would not
have been able to happen if we had not started that tree farm. There is no way that
I could possibly have survived all the various ups and downs, the 2008 debacle
PUBLIC HEARING 47 MAY 19, 2015
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problems associated with 2001. There were any number of things that could have •
put us down, but every time we ended up having a real financial difficulty, we were
able to just kind of squeak through because of the B&B business that we had. It
was because of that business that we were able to make this three thousand five
hundred (3,500) acre tree farm work. That farm, I believe in the next two (2) years
because of now the ability to have some cash flow, we will start providing other
jobs...other construction/lumber, finished lumber, cabinets, and etcetera; all
because we made it this far that we now have the ability to provide that kind of
material. We live up in Lawa`i Valley, up mauka. I am not certain, but I think we
are the only rental business up there at all. Our neighbors do not want us to shut
down. They do not want us to. They use us all the time with weddings, funerals,
visiting families, or whatever. They use our business. Lots of times, we do it at a
reduced rate. Sometimes we do for nothing, just depending on the circumstances,
but we do it that way because we want to be good neighbors. Most of the B&B and
homestay owners want to be good neighbors. They live here and they work here. It
is very frustrating to go through the process we are going through right now.
Thank you.
Councilmember Yukimura: So you do not live on the same parcel where
you are growing your trees, right?
Mr. Cowern: I grow trees on the parcel as well, but clearly
it is not the major portion of the business now.
Councilmember Yukimura: How big is the lot that you live on?
Mr. Cowern: Three (3) acres.
Councilmember Yukimura: How long have you operated the B&B? I am
sorry, your wife probably said it.
Mr. Cowern: Since 1992, two (2) weeks before the
hurricane.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay, thank you.
Mr. Cowern: That was our first hit.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you.
Councilmember Hooser: I have a question or two. You mentioned the
complaints and that your neighbors like you and they do not complain.
Mr. Cowern: No.
Councilmember Hooser: So when you look at reasons why the
industry may not be a positive thing for the community, people would point to
complaints and traffic, but they also point to the erosion, or let us say, of affordable
housing. I can understand with the TVR you have a standalone house and is taken
off the market, but in your case, would you speak to that element of it? Do you have
any background of affordable house? If you were not allowed to do a B&B, would
you be renting those rooms out to...
PUBLIC HEARING 48 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
Mr. Cowern: No. First of all, we are not allowed to have
kitchens. Who are you going to rent a room to? Unless you want to get pretty tight
with somebody for a long period of time, which we doubt. The B&B business is a
nice business because it attracts some really nice visitors. You get really good
visitors. For the most part, it is wonderful to have them around you and to talk
with them and interact with them. They go out to eat. They do not need too much
from you. It would be much more difficult if you tried to long-term rent a room in
your house to somebody who was going to use your kitchen. I doubt my wife and I
would want to do that.
Councilmember Hooser: Okay. Thank you very much. That is kind of
a reoccurring theme buried in some of the opposition that this is somehow taking
away from long-term rental inventory.
Mr. Cowern: I do not see how to be honest with you.
Councilmember Hooser: Okay. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Mr. Bernabe.
Mr. Bernabe: Matt Bernabe, for the record. I just wanted
to add...I have to go because I have kids, but I wanted to add in what I left out,
which was until the taxes are changed and for the planning purposes of these B&Bs
and if they do end up in a residential, I think a provision...a criteria should be that
they go to their neighbors within that area and let them know or get the permission
that they are all claiming...I do not hear any complaints, but one of the reasons is,
and this is for you Mr. Hooser, is B&Bs only take couples. Most of these people do
not accept kids. That is the fundamental difference. A TVR is a whole family or
multiple families. I do not think anybody in here lets kids to go their B&Bs. It is
very few if anything, a very small percentage. There is your answer. That would go
to your complaint. But with the tax issue, which is what I care about, if my
neighbors in my residential is putting in this business with three (3), four (4), five
(5), to six (6) couples coming in, I do not mind three (3) to four (4), but there has to
be a limit. I do not know what it is. But go and get permission. Get consent in
form that there is a potential for our taxes to rise because of their industry next to
my residential home. I am all about these taxes. I know you guys have to tackle
that on its own issue and that is not the issue here today, but it is tied in with this
issue, very much so. I know there is going to be more steps to this and I just want
that to be in your brains as you are going over this in Executive Session. Thank you
very much. I have to go to jiu jitsu now. Aloha.
Committee Chair Chock: This is Mr. Taylor's first time to. speak.
Please come up.
KEN TAYLOR: Chair and Members of the Council, my name
is Ken Taylor. I was not going to speak today, but I do not have a B&B. This is just
another example of "ready-shoot-aim." We have one part of government not
knowing what the other part is doing. It is really sad. Under a management style
of government, this would have never happened because the discussion would have
been here on the floor before any letters were sent out to stop doing anything. It is
really a shame that this government structure has gotten to this point where things
are happening without...apparently it happened from over there and you do not
know that it was going on, which is a shame. Now we have to try to piece the pieces
back together and solve a problem. But I do have one problem and one concern and
PUBLIC HEARING 49 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
that is there were a number of vacation rental units that were outside of the
designated zone that were supposed to be stopping their activities. In my
neighborhood, I have three (3) of them and they are still operating illegally. They
have had websites. I gave the websites to the Planning Department. Nothing has
happened. What I can see now that is going to happen is that they will apply for a
bed and breakfast and continue to operate. That is a concern. I do not know how
you address that and deal with these people that have been doing this B&B-type of
operations for a long time. If I had my say, I would say that they should all be
required to put in their applications immediately and within sixty (60) to
ninety (90) days get their permits to them and get them moving forward. But as I
said, I am very concerned about how this is going to deal with all of the illegal
vacation rental units that are out there. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you. We have a question here.
Councilmember Yukimura: Ken, when you are talking about these
illegal operations in your neighborhood, are you talking about standalone TVRs? Is
that correct?
Mr. Taylor: I am talking about homes that are operating
vacation rental units out of their homes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Do they have an owner-occupant living in the
house?
Mr. Taylor: They are living there, but we are
single-family agricultural zoned properties, and this is going on. I do not believe it
is the proper zoning for TVRs.
Councilmember Yukimura: I am trying to understand whether you are
referring to TVRs or homestays when you are talking about illegal units in your
neighborhood? Which is it?
Mr. Taylor: I am talking about TVRs.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you for your testimony. I think this
might be our last speaker for the day.
Ms. Boilini: Alexis Boilini, Marjorie's Kauai Inn. I just
realized back there as we were talking that I really think that everyone has been
mistaking bed and breakfast with Airbnb. Bed and breakfast has been around
forever, but Airbnb came on the scene about one year and a half (1.5) ago and there
are about seven hundred fifty (750) of them...on VRBO and Airbnb. They are
interchanged, but actually they are just people that really are not in the business
and they are renting a room out. You might have to go outside to a shed in the
bathroom, sleep on the mat, or a yurt. That is a completely different animal than
Airbnb. I just want to say that. I think that everyone is getting confused. I am
going to just go with what my husband wrote. I will read and try to shortcut it.
"The only line that the Planning Department ever uses is the very last line and it is
864 that says, `Homestays are presently regulated through the use permit process,'
which we know now was not the case. There had not been a single use permit in
place since 2004 and in the framework it says that there were eight (8) use permits
PUBLIC HEARING 50 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
for bed and breakfast in effect at the time between the studies between 2000 to
2005. But as today, there is not one use permit for a homestay outside the VDA.
Also, I find it incredibly unfortunate that this body cannot somehow lift the cease
and desist order until the Planning Department performs a more thorough process
of due diligence to see that we are clearly not TVRs. Mr. Hull says that he cannot
enforce the law selectively, yet that is, in fact, what he is doing by only going after
those of us who had been waiting our turn in the permit process line for so long. We
really are not `wolves in sheep's clothing.' There are many different approaches to
the same issue and there are no uniformly correct answers, except when creating
regulations. Adoptive bodies like yourself should question whether regulations are
related to public health, safety, and welfare, and they should consider whether the
regulation is considered with prevailing legal doctrine, which requires that all
citizens receive equal protection under the law and that the due process is followed
when enforcing the law, which everybody here...many people have said is has not
happened, as far as the Planning Department is concerned. It seems that no one
went back to see where the ordinance had left off in 2008, and again in 2010, and
actually even in 2014 before stamping those letters ordering us to stop taking
reservations and suddenly turn our guests away. Our demographic seeks out a
different type of accommodation away from the vacation area and they want to be
aware from timeshares, hotels, and VDAs, and they want to be someplace private,
quiet, quaint, and personal where they can perhaps share their morning breakfast
with travelers; sharing their experience and advice." They tell us over and over
again that if they had no choice to stay away from crowded areas at places such as
ours, they will not come to the island. They will just go to the next vacation
destination where they can find it. I am sure you have all been at bed and
breakfasts like my own.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you. We have a clarifying question
from Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: In your case, you have been paying excise
taxes since you operated?
Ms. Boilini: And liability insurance.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. You mentioned seven hundred
fifty (750) Airbnb. Is that supposedly on Kaua`i?
Ms. Boilini: Yes. On Airbnb, there are seven hundred
fifty (750) Airbnbs. That is not what we are. There are only five (5) of us that serve
breakfast on the island.
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, we are going to have to distinguish
between Airbnb and homestay if we are to regulate them. What is the distinction
between homestay and Airbnb in your mind?
Ms. Boilini: It is like the difference between a taxi
company and Uber taxi. Anybody without regulations or permits can just start
driving a car and pick up people from airport. They only collect Federal taxes
because the Federal government is starting to force that, but they do not pay GE or
TA taxes, because they are not forced to do that. They do not even understand that
they have to pay those.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you very much.
PUBLIC HEARING 51 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
Committee Chair Chock: We have one more question from Council
Chair Rapozo.
Council Chair Rapozo: This is kind of along the lines of
Councilmember Yukimura because you said that it is different, but it is not.
Ms. Boilini: Why so?
Council Chair Rapozo: That is why I am asking you. Why are they
different?
Ms. Boilini: Any owner can sign up on Airbnb and rent a
room out, a garage, or a Home Depot shed, put a bed in it and rent it out. There are
no regulations.
Council Chair Rapozo: Right, but do you not think that this
ordinance should cover them?
Ms. Boilini: Airbnb?
Council Chair Rapozo: Right.
Ms. Boilini: You can go after them separately.
Council Chair Rapozo: No, but you have to have an ordinance in
place.
Ms. Boilini: Who has an ordinance in place?
Council Chair Rapozo: The County has to have an ordinance in
place so that we can go after those Airbnb.
Ms. Boilini: Yes, I absolutely agree that you should have
an ordinance. We have been waiting for an ordinance.
Council Chair Rapozo: What is "bnb" stand for? It is "bed and
breakfast." That is what they are promoting. They are selling rooms, tents, and all
of that, but they are hiding under the name of a B&B.
Ms. Boilini: Right. Bed and breakfasts have been around
for one hundred (100) years. Airbnb took the word "bnb" because it has been so
popular for hundreds of years.
Council Chair Rapozo: Brilliant idea.
Ms. Boilini: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, brilliant idea. The question is does that
belong here on Kauai? I do not know.
Ms. Boilini: Personally, I do not think so. I would love to
see those seven hundred fifty (750) people because there are no regulations
whatsoever. They are not self-regulated. A B&B owner calls another B&B owner
PUBLIC HEARING 52 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
and says, "Hey, I have two (2) people that need a room on this such and such date."
I cannot take them because they have a kid or they want call me and ask, "These
guests want breakfast. Do you serve breakfast?" I do not. We kind of self-regulate
ourselves because there is no organization here.
Council Chair Rapozo: I understand that, but I just wanted to
clarify that the B&B are...
Ms. Boilini: We absolutely believe that you should have
permitting. We absolutely believe there should be regulations. We beg for that. I
have been in the bed and breakfast business for thirty-seven (37) years.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you. You folks spoke separately, so I
will let you speak for thirty (30) seconds. Go ahead.
Mr. Chong: Darryl Chong, for the record. Just to clarify
what Alexis was saying and Councilmember Rapozo was asking. It is in my mind
that B&B can also be designated as "bed and bath." So Airbnb is a website that
some people just, as Alexis was saying, can rent out a tent or yurt and have
toiletries outside. But we are not like that. We are residents here that rent out a
room or bedroom with their own running bathroom and shower. In Alexis' case that
is a bed and breakfast. Some people get confused with bed and breakfast or bed and
bath. It is also just saying quickly, "B&B." To decipher is very important and how
it is being worded. I hope that helps.
Committee Chair Chock: There are a lot of variations to Airbnb, so I
would not want to go down the road of trying to full explain it right now at this
moment. If you can go and look it up, then you will learn about it really quickly.
Do you have a clarifying question?
Councilmember Yukimura: I do.
Committee Chair Chock: Please do.
Councilmember Yukimura: Would you say that all of the people here
who have been talking about their homestays or B&Bs that they provide bathrooms
separate from the family bathroom? Is that what you are saying?
Mr. Chong: Generally, I know I can speak for myself that
the room has their own bathroom. They do not use my shower outside where I have
the "Kaua`i style," where it has a washer and drier, a washroom, a shower and a
toilet for the guy to use because they are always coming in dirty, right? The idea of
the guests, they have their own bathroom, shower, toilet, and room.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you very much everyone. This will
conclude our public testimony if there is nothing else. Thank you all for your
contribution. We will be hearing this next week.
PUBLIC HEARING 53 MAY 19, 2015
BILL NO. 2587
There being no further testimony on this matter, the public hearing
adjourned at 4:25 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
SCOTT K. SATO
Deputy County Clerk
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