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HomeMy WebLinkAbout 08/19/2015 Pubilc hearing transcript on BILL#2459 PUBLIC HEARING AUGUST 19, 2015 A public hearing of the Council of the County of Kaua`i was called to order by Gary L. Hooser, Vice Chair, Planning Committee, on Wednesday, August 19, 2015, at 1:55 p.m., at the Council Chambers, 4396 Rice Street, Suite 201, Historic County Building, LIhu`e, and the presence of the following was noted: Honorable Gary L. Hooser Honorable Ross Kagawa Honorable Arryl Kaneshiro Honorable KipuKai Kuali`i Honorable JoAnn A. Yukimura Honorable Mel Rapozo Excused: Honorable Mason K. Chock The Clerk read the notice of the public hearing on the following: "Bill No. 2459 — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE TO AMEND CHAPTER 8, KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, RELATING TO THE COMPREHENSIVE ZONING ORDINANCE (Special Standards For Issuance Of Farm Worker Housing Use Permits)," which was passed on first reading and ordered to print by the Council of the County of Kauai on July 15, 2015, and published in The Garden Island newspaper on July 22, 2015. The hearing proceeded as follows: JADE K. FOUNTAIN-TANIGAWA, County Clerk: We have people registered to speak. Committee Vice Chair Hooser: Can we have the first registered speaker, please? Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Sure. The first registered speaker is Louisa Wooten, followed by Ned Whitlock. Committee Vice Chair Hooser: Good afternoon, Ms. Wooten. LOUISA WOOTEN: My name is Louisa Wooten and I am here to give testimony in support of this very important amendment to a very important ordinance that has benefited my family so far, because I left my family today with my husband, my son and my daughter-in-law framing up our farmworker housing. We are the first applicant for the special use permit to actually get a building permit. To the best of my knowledge, there has been three (3) of the special permits issued since 2010 for farmworker housing. This amendment will allow a few more people in the future who might not have had property dedicated to agriculture prior to 2010 to apply for a special use permit to build farmworker housing. We have owned property where we could not have a house and tried to farm, and I can tell PUBLIC HEARING 2 AUGUST 19, 2015 BILL NO. 2459 you as a farmer that when you have a two (2) inch water main leak because an Ironwood branch fell on it during the night, the resulting expense you incur is no joke. Not being able to live on your property for farmers is just really, really troubling that there would ever be such a situation for a farmer. So dedicating the property was one of the things that had to be done prerequisite to the Bill originally passing and being signed into law. We have made a very, very, very strong ordinance that makes sure that we only have farmers on these properties that have the farmworker housing and that is evidenced by the fact of how difficult it is to get the special use permit. We worked really hard with Planning. There were a lot of people who came to the table as we made Ordinance No. 903 come into being and I think it is a good, good ordinance and I think this minor will help future farmers also qualify for being able to apply for the special use permit for building farmworker housing. Committee Vice Chair Hooser: Thank you very much. Any clarifying questions? Councilmember Kaneshiro. Councilmember Kaneshiro: I have a question. When you got your permit...we are taking out "the declaration has not been amended subsequent to August 16, 2010," did you get your permit prior to 2010 or did you not amend your... Ms. Wooten: No, you could not even apply for a permit until 2010 and my family did not even get our special use permit until October of last year. We finally received our building permit in April or May. It took us that long to even meet the requirements of making at least a thirty-five thousand dollar ($35,000) income from the property; Schedule F, the property had to have already been dedicated before 2010 and that is what this amendment will change. Say someone bought their property after 2010-2011, but it was not already dedicated to agriculture, now they can apply for the special use permit; whereas if this amendment does not go forward, if they have property that was not dedicated to agriculture prior to 2010, they cannot even apply for the permit to build farmworker housing. Am I right? Committee Vice Chair Hooser: Councilmember Kaneshiro, are you finished? Councilmember Yukimura: I think I need to help here to clarify. Committee Vice Chair Hooser: Okay. Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: Louisa, actually the Bill removes the language that requires the declaration not to have been amended after August 16, 2010 and this is about Condominium Property Regime (CPR's), so you are talking about an amendment that you would like to be added to this Bill. Ms. Wooten: Actually, the wording has been changed. Am I not correct that it is to remove that wording that says "also a dedication"? Councilmember Yukimura: I think we are working on an amendment to this Bill that you want to ask for as well. Ms. Wooten: Okay. Councilmember Yukimura: I know why Councilmember Kaneshiro is confused because the Bill, as it stands, would remove the amendment subsequent to PUBLIC HEARING 3 AUGUST 19, 2015 BILL NO. 2459 August 16, 2010, so that is with respect to CPRs, because we limited it to CPRs that had been done before or up to the date, August 16, 2010. We added this thing about amending it, but we realized that it is restricting people who have both condos and dedication, so we have to remove that. It is unduly restrictive. Louisa, what you are asking for is that we also remove the restriction, which is above in paragraph "B," the restriction about agricultural dedication has to be as of August 16, 2010; that is "(B)(2)," I believe. She is asking for an amendment further, which I am preparing. Councilmember Kaneshiro: I guess my clarifying question to my clarifying question is that by not amending this portion, which you can say, "Oh, you have to look at it again," but by not removing this portion, did it affect you being able to get your permit to build the house? Ms. Wooten: The portion about the CPR already having been completed? Is that what you are saying? Councilmember Kaneshiro: The CPR has not been amended since 2010. Ms. Wooten: No, it did not. Councilmember Kaneshiro: Okay, so this would not affect Louisa's property. Ms. Wooten: But it does affect other people that might want to farm on the land. Councilmember Yukimura: We put that in because we thought amending it would be to add more lots, and then they would want dwelling units. We were worried about this idea of"empty condos." What it is, is when they amend it just to rename something for very small and minor amendments, not adding condos; it then precludes somebody who was part of a CPR prior to August 16, 2010, so really covered by the intention of this law to not be able to go for farmworker housing. Committee Vice Chair Hooser: I think we will get back to the public hearing. I appreciate the clarification. I believe that Councilmember Kaneshiro was saying, "Were you impacted," and your answer was that you are already getting your housing and that you are speaking to benefit future and other landowners. Ms. Wooten: Yes. Committee Vice Chair Hooser: So you are in support of the Bill and you will be working probably for additional amendments also. Ms. Wooten: Yes. Councilmember Kaneshiro: I got my answer. Thank you. Committee Vice Chair Hooser: Louisa, thank you very much. Ms. Wooten: Thank you. Committee Vice Chair Hooser: Next speaker, please. PUBLIC HEARING 4 AUGUST 19, 2015 BILL NO. 2459 Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Ned Whitlock, followed by David Neaves. NED WHITLOCK: Good afternoon Councilmembers. I am Ned Whitlock and I am a farmer. I was the first to go through the Planning Commission on this Bill for getting a special use permit. I have that permit in hand and about to start on the foundation, so thank you for anybody who supported that in the past. I guess looking at where we got from when we passed that Bill to today, it looks like when the Bill was in the works, there was a fear of all of these non-farmers making houses. It just simply has not come up basically. Thirty-five thousand dollars ($35,000) a year means every week, if you are doing one farmer's market, you have come up with seven hundred seventy-three dollars ($773) worth of goods that you sell at the market. That is a minivan full or a van pretty full. So anybody who makes that qualification is farming. They are busy. They are working it. I guess I am in full support of trying to bring any other people, aspiring farmers who did not make that cutoff date, into the possibility of raising their family on agricultural land that it is a big enough plot because it is dedicated to agriculture, and to watch vacant land that is repopulated is an amazing process and to just watch the change in biodiversity and productivity is wonderful when people are living on their land and farming. So anything that we can help with that is wonderful. Thank you. Committee Vice Chair Hooser: Thank you. Next speaker. Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is David Neaves, followed by Ken Taylor. DAVID NEAVES: My name is David Neaves and I am a small farmer. We have a piece of property that was CRP'd well in advance of this 2010 cutoff date, probably fifteen (15) years ago. We have a small family farm that is on agricultural land. We are not in dedicated agriculture, but we are working very hard towards becoming dedicated agriculture, which we will apply for by June 30th of next year. Someday we would qualify for this farmworker housing by the different levels of income, etcetera, but the way the Bill was passed, we would not even be able it to apply. We support this amendment because I believe if we deleted the part about having dedicated agriculture previous to August 16, 2010, it would open the door for someone like myself and my family, who are legitimate farmers, and would love to be able to sometime build farmworker housing on our land where we could really farm better by being there. That is all I have to say. Committee Vice Chair Hooser: Thank you for your testimony. Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you for being here, David. So you are in support of this Bill and you would like to see it go further by deleting the requirement that agricultural land was dedicated as of August 16, 2010. Mr. Neaves: That is correct, yes. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Neaves: Thank you. PUBLIC HEARING 5 AUGUST 19, 2015 BILL NO. 2459 Councilmember Yukimura: David, you still want the requirement that land be dedicated to agriculture, right? You just want the removal of that... Mr. Neaves: That is right. I believe that is a good thing. We do not want to open the door to big farms with houses on them. I believe it is a good thing that it was CPR'd in agricultural land previous to that date. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you very much. Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Ken Taylor, followed by Sandra Herndon. Council Chair Rapozo: He passes. Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Sandra Herndon, followed by Felicia Cowden. SANDRA HERNDON: Sandra Herndon for the record. It is important that we support small farmers and when I say "small farmers," I do not necessarily mean "short ones"; I mean farmers that do not have a huge amount of money and/or land, but have a strong desire to support the community and their families by actually living on the land and making that land produce food for the community. This is very, very important and without having this type of legislation or rules to allow them to build their requisite housing that is needed to actually be on the property, you are really cutting back on the ability of our island to feed itself. I very heartily support this. I think that it will, in fact, open the door for more farmers and more people to become farmers. It seems like thirty-five thousand dollars ($35,000) is actually a lot for one farm family probably to produce, but you have to have some kind of target level and I think that is fair. I know I may be boring to some, but I think that we really need to look at supporting the small farmer in every way that we can. Thank you. Committee Vice Chair Hooser: Thank you. Next speaker. Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next speaker is Felicia Cowden, followed by Matthew Bernabe, who is your last registered speaker. FELICIA COWDEN: For the record, I am Felicia Cowden and I support this effort in Bill No. 2459 that helps the farmer continue to be able to have farmworker housing. Local food production is desired by both the State and the County. That has been very clear. The market drives the need for diversified crops in our small population. We cannot just have a farmer who grows bell peppers, for example. They have diversified agriculture. Organic food is the preference of a significant amount of our people and it also sets it apart from what is imported from the mainland. Thus diversified organic farming demands a team of hands-on farmers that is less with the mechanization. It really needs people and a lot of people who are requesting this have families and they want to even put their own people and kids in there. This Bill was designed to now allow it to be abused into vacation housing. I will be honest that I am unclear on the subtleties of the semantics of this Bill. It seems very detailed, but what I do know is that we need farmer-friendly county codes that encourage true food production into the future. When we tie the farmworker housing to a past threshold date that something was applied for, to me that shows a mindset that we are looking to discourage any of this activity in the future. When we do a grandfathering of some activity, usually that PUBLIC HEARING 6 AUGUST 19, 2015 BILL NO. 2459 means, "Okay, we are not going to stop everybody in the past, but we are not going to encourage it in the future," which to me is saying that we are not going to encourage allowing true food production to keep growing. I do not think that is what anybody in this Council is really looking to do. Forgive me if I do not understand some subtle element here, but I would like to see this be an ongoing ability. People do need to be able to put some sort of housing where people are not really camping in the dirt or overcrowding. Thank you. Committee Vice Chair Hooser: Thank you very much. Next speaker. Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Your last registered speaker is Matthew Bernabe. MATTHEW BERNABE: Hi everybody, Matt Bernabe. Yes, I am definitely for farming, but I am for a comprehensive plan that includes everybody. So what I am going point out right now is that these houses...we will use the Moloa`a regions since we are talking about Moloa`a—are they going to be putting in cesspools or septic? These are real questions here. I can tell you for a fact that I work in Moloa`a and I picked up many of those people that are "the people that we want farming our land." These are transient farmers. This is not employing local people. This is not housing local people. I sound like the bad guy, but let us call some "realness" on "realness." This is preference to get what they want. The reality is that it is a shantytown town in Moloa`a. It is like a third world country. You have rich mansions, second class, and then you have third world. If you do not believe me, I will give you a tour of Moloa`a. You can come driving with me at night when I am leaving my job and I see everybody getting off the bus or hitchhiking out on the road. I pick of these people up. Some of them have kids. They farm everything from asparagus to all of this and they tell me all of their farming stories. I tell them, "Where are you from?" They say, "I am just here for a little while." Then they are gone. Sure, there are a few that are in here that live here, but a lot of those people are transients. Another thing is that I called the State and the State told me from Kapa'a until the end of the road, only fifty percent (50%) of small businesses have General Excise Tax licenses, and that includes a lot of these farmers at the farmer's market. Some do not even have General Excise (GE) license. They are not recontributing any of the tax money back in. Of course, some of these people are legit, but let us go to the next farmer's market to see if they have their tags up or if they even have a license. Let us do this. I want to be real about farming and not little "patch-piece, picking the winners." Let us get a comprehensive plan from the Mayor down. Let us go back to the Counties and work as four (4) Counties to become an export state again. To me, this is just more housing. Let us just talk about the sewer part of this. Committee Vice Chair Hooser: Is there anyone else who has not spoken and would like to speak? Would anybody like to speak for the second time? Mr. Whitlock. Mr. Whitlock: County Councilmembers, Ned Whitlock. In response to the previous speaker, I would like to say that first off, you are not going to get any special permit for a house without a septic system on there or whatever the Hawaii State laws are. You say there are transients in Moloa`a—sure, but there are also people who are there for the long-term. That is what makes farms. It is not like people just come through. You have to have land to start with and that takes a major commitment right there. That previous testimony was just a bunch of smoke. Sorry. PUBLIC HEARING 7 AUGUST 19, 2015 BILL NO. 2459 Committee Vice Chair Hooser: Thank you very much. Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: Ned, how long have you been here farming on Kauai? Mr. Whitlock: Fourteen (14) years. Councilmember Yukimura: How much produce do you produce on average? Mr. Whitlock: Anywhere from a gross of three hundred thousand dollars ($300,000) to four hundred thousand dollars ($400,000) per year. Councilmember Yukimura: Pounds? Mr. Whitlock: No, dollars' worth. Councilmember Yukimura: So in terms of food, can you give us an idea of how much you produce? Mr. Whitlock: It is depending on the season. During mango season, it raises up, but it is probably five thousand (5,000) to six thousand (6,000) pounds per week. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. In your situation in Moloa`a, you are not even able to have your own house without this farmworker permit, but is it not difficult to get farm workers if you do not have a place to put them? Mr. Whitlock: Well, what I suffered from on my farm is qualified, managerial-level of skill and help where you can have people stay for years and give you a vacation when you need to go and make things run. Councilmember Yukimura: So what you are saying is that the difficulty in getting labor is for that managerial-level and if you are able to offer them housing then that would make it easier probably to get that type of help. Mr. Whitlock: Yes, along with other levels of skill that is needed actually. Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you. I do not think people realize how hard you, Marta, and your team work over there, producing food for this island. I just want to say that I appreciate it. Mr. Whitlock: I wish I could produce more, but it seems like right now we are dealing with the mango season. I am sending it off to O`ahu, which is silly when it is still...we not saturated here, but there are barriers here and there to get in. Also in response to the previous speaker, everybody at the sunshine markets have an excise tax license. Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, it is required. PUBLIC HEARING 8 AUGUST 19, 2015 BILL NO. 2459 Mr. Whitlock: Yes, they are getting paid. There is no doubt about it. Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you very much. Committee Vice Chair looser: Thank you. Next speaker, please come forward. I do not want to get into an endless back and forth. I think it is justified and some statements were made about the farms and those have been clarified. Please go forward. Ms. Wooten: Thank you. I do not want to get into either, but I do want to point out this Bill is not written specifically for Moloa`a. There are other agricultural subdivisions throughout the island, especially up in Kapa`a, but this would apply to it too and that is why it is really, really important if we are going to farm. Not to get into it, but I am going to get into it a little bit because every farmer's market that I go to requires that you have a GE license, insurance, and you fill out a complete application, whether it is the farm bureau, County, private market, or whatever. They are very well managed now and it brings real, true farmers to the markets. It is not just the markets that we go to. Ned, myself, and a slew of other farmers deliver to restaurants. If you were at the County Fair, you were at the cook-off and saw the farms that supply the restaurants here, which is a very good community thing that we have going here. Like I said, I have mine, but others on this island need to produce their own food, and whether it is water, housing, or all of these other things that farmers are challenged with, we need every one of you guys to be on our team. I just want to impress that upon you. That is why I am here. I had one thousand (1,000) things to do, but I came because I am all about farming. Thank you. Councilmember Yukimura: I have a question. Committee Vice Chair looser: Go ahead. Councilmember Yukimura: Louisa, just for our information, how long have you and your family been farming on Kaua`i? Ms. Wooten: We started farming here in 1979. Councilmember Yukimura: Either in money or pounds, how much do you produce? Ms. Wooten: Our gross sales right now are around three hundred fifty thousand dollars ($350,000) a year. Our family owns ten (10) acres now and we manage another ten (10) acres of land where we use for pastures. Councilmember Yukimura: You not only have produce, but you have actually value-added products that you are manufacturing from your agricultural produce. Ms. Wooten: Yes. Like Ned mentioned about his mango problem, we have the same problem. We bought another freezer last week and we are looking toward the food hub in Moloa`a to happen for us. Ned and I were just talking about the pulp refinisher we need so that we can have the big walk-ins and we can ship our puree off of Kauai and sell it that way. There is nothing but potential for a lot of growth here. PUBLIC HEARING 9 AUGUST 19, 2015 BILL NO. 2459 Councilmember Yukimura: And it is nothing but agriculture that you are talking about. Ms. Wooten: Nothing but agriculture and nothing but hiring people to work on our farms. As my friend Derrick said when we did this farmworker housing thing, housing is an issue for everyone. I do not care if you are a grocery store owner or anyone, but getting people to work on the farm is a huge challenge. For us to continue to grow, farm labor is so important. If we can put a roof over their heads, then it is just a big bonus for everyone in this room. Councilmember Yukimura: But if this law would allow houses for non-farmers on agricultural land, that would be creating a problem for farmers because the price of land... Ms. Wooten: Of course because it also raises the value of the real estate. That is why this farm worker ordinance from the beginning was very, very strong. As I mentioned my friend, Derrick—you all know him. It is his birthday today, so text him a "happy birthday." When I was talking to him last week, I was telling him that we are framing the house now, and he.said, "Yes, the sky did not fall after all," because we all know that we are there for the farmworker housing, how it was doom and gloom, but we have a really, really, strong ordinance. You, Chair Furfaro, and other people in this room worked on it and it took us four (4) years to get the farm worker housing ordinance. I hope you will support it and make it stronger so that future farming will grow here and have things like this. Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you. Ms. Wooten: Thank you. Committee Vice Chair Hooser: Thank you very much. Would anyone else like to speak for the final time? Mr. Bernabe, you may come forward. I would ask that you not continue the track that we were on earlier. If you have new information... Mr. Bernabe: My track is always constant. Matt Bernabe. I would just like to reiterate that if we are talking about housing and we are going to allow more farm housing, then we should make a stipulation that they put septic in and not cesspool. Let us have a starting point. Who wants a cesspool by their farm, for one? Second, we talk about the last farm housing bill and that is why I am adamantly against this because I see on a daily basis when I go to work. I literally have been on properties...I literally can go right now and leave this room right now to show you what I am talking about. You can jump in my truck and I will take you folks. I know there is abuse. These people can make it sound all good, but I see it with my own eyes and as a taxpayer I am worried about the direction. Of course I want farming. You folks have not heard anything come out of my mouth about (inaudible). Let us get some real farming going. If you are just talking about the farmer's market and that is it, that does not work for me. If you are talking about this "housing"—look, I know more people from Wailua River to Ha`ena and guess what? I know more people that work in the Monsanto or Syngenta fields than I do that work at these farms. That is my point. This is bringing in different people. We are growing the...we are not fixing a problem of getting employed people that live here more employment and fixing the housing for the people that are already here. This is creating a scenario that other people can come live in Moloa`a and look PUBLIC HEARING 10 AUGUST 19, 2015 BILL NO. 2459 like they are doing a great thing because they go to the farmer's market and call it "diversified farming." I sound like the bad guy, but this is part of the public discussion that is not being talked about. This is real; I see the abuse. The first housing bill has led to abuse. If you have any questions, I am right here. If you want go for a ride, I am good. Councilmember Yukimura: I have a question. Mr. Bernabe: I can send you a photo. Committee Vice Chair Hooser: You have a question. Mr. Bernabe: Just like the dog bill, I can take a shot. Committee Vice Chair Hooser: Councilmember Yukimura has a question. Councilmember Yukimura: Matt, are you not supporting this Bill? Mr. Bernabe: No, I think there should be restrictions on farmworker housing. Councilmember Yukimura: Do you think that the restriction that is being moved here is going to create more abuse? Mr. Bernabe: Look, I am not so familiar with whatever the language is... Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, you do not even understand what... Mr. Bernabe: I will be honest. I am not familiar with it, but I will tell you that I have seen the result of the first wave of housing that is associated as "farm housing." That is what I am adamantly... Councilmember Yukimura: It has not even been built yet, Matt. How could you have seen it? Mr. Bernabe: Okay, well it is worse because I have already seen housing. There are people living on these farms. I can take you right now, JoAnn. I promise you. I will send you a photo. Do you want me to put it on Facebook? Committee Vice Chair Hooser: Thank you, Mr. Bernabe. Councilmember Yukimura: It is not anything related to this. Mr. Bernabe: It is. Councilmember Yukimura: That would be untrue. Mr. Bernabe: There are farm lots that have transient people living on it. That is what we are talking about, right? Councilmember Yukimura: No. PUBLIC HEARING 11 AUGUST 19, 2015 BILL NO. 2459 Mr. Bernabe: Oh. Committee Vice Chair Hooser: Would anyone like to speak who has not spoken before or speak for the second time? If not, before we close the public hearing, I want to thank the farmers especially that showed up today; not to benefit themselves, but to benefit other farmers. I really mean that and I appreciate the hard work that you all do. We all know that this Bill that we are discussing is about farmworker housing. It is not about people that have their houses built on agricultural land. This is about special, dedicated housing that is only for farmworkers on farms that are producing income and prove that production. It is my understanding of the State law that they are all required to do septic systems. With that, this public hearing is adjourned. There being no further testimony on this matter, the public hearing adjourned at 2:30 p.m. Respectfully submitted, JADE K. FOUNTAIN-TANIGAWA County Clerk :cy