HomeMy WebLinkAbout04/07/2015 Fire Department 4/7/2015
DEPARTMENTAL BUDGET REVIEWS 2015-16
FIRE DEPARTMENT
Department of Fire
Honorable Mason K. Chock (present at 9:03 a.m)
Honorable Gary L. Hooser
Honorable KipuKai Kuali`i
Honorable Mel Rapozo
Honorable JoAnn A. Yukimura
Honorable Arryl Kaneshiro
Excused: Honorable Ross Kagawa
The Committee reconvened on April 7, 2015 at 9:00 a.m., and proceeded as follows:
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Good morning, I would like to call back to order
the Budget and Finance Committee and the Fiscal Year 2015-2016 Departmental Budget
Reviews. On the schedule today, we will be hearing from the Fire Department and the
Police Department. Please note that Council Vice Chair Kagawa is excused for today. As
we do each morning, we will take public testimony. Anyone in the audience wishing to
testify? Chief, you have to give up your seat.
ROBERT F. WESTERMAN, Fire Chief: That is alright.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: I will suspend the rules, and give you three
minutes. Please state your name.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
BRUCE HART: For the record my name is Bruce Hart. I took a
look at this list when it first came out of all the different departments that were going to
come up and everything and I only have like everybody a certain amount of time and so I
had to choose between the different departments but I just wanted to say that could we
really do without the Fire Department or the Police Department? I do not think so. I know
that it is a tough year and there has got to be budget cuts everywhere but I have had
personal experience with both the Fire Department and Kaua`i Police Department and they
do an exemplary job. They were very friendly to me and so I just like to say that I am sure
they have some good cost cutting measures in mind to present to you and I know that you
will do your best. I just wanted to say that I am in support of both departments. Thank
you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Seeing no one else in the audience, Chief
Westerman. We will start with the short presentation. We will ask any questions on the
presentation, but remember we are going to go through each department, so if the question
is better answered in the department, then we will leave it for the department. So all you,
Chief.
Chief Westerman: For the record Robert Westerman, Fire Chief.
Good morning, thank you again for sitting through these grueling couple weeks as we go
through the budget for the County of Kaua`i and we are here today to present the Fire
Department budget. You have received the presentation. We tried to keep it as short and
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simple as possible and so what I have done is I have created a MacroView PowerPoint just
to talk about some of the macro and then we will get into the individual budget areas. So
what happened in 2014? Well our total calls for 2014 was 5,794. 101 of those were fires, 76
were brush, 4,375 or 75% were (Emergency Medical Services) EMS calls, 1,242 other calls
and those are good intent calls that get cancelled on. Helping people open up their car
doors, kids locked in cars, those kind of things. Our Air 1 calls, we had 82 times that we
used Air 1. 78 times for rescue and 4 for fires. We had six drowning and we will talk about
each one of these as we go through the presentation. Rescues, we kind of put that in a little
category by itself because we had rescues in a lot of different fashions but we also wanted to
note how much of our rescues were done on jet skis out of ocean safety. We had 70 recorded
incidents of that and that is 33% of that total rescue calls so that is pretty significant. Then
our prevention education encounter was 15,000. That is with our education trailer in the
schools, in the public, at the fairs, and that kinds of stuff. The two things that are key on
there are what are the total calls by year and a percent increase. As you can see and we
show this slide every year as we have gone through the continued increase of calls over the
year, and one of the things we correlate that too is if you took a look at the economy sort to
speak, and tourism being our number one driver, that like kind of follows what happen
through time with the tourism. Than you can see the increase per year and the increase
over all. The slide on the bottom right is kind of response by type. 72% of our responses
were EMS, 3% with fire, 4% with rescue, 20% with other, 1% using Air 1. Now what has
happened here to date and if you look at the same numbers compare them if you multiply
each of the numbers on the right by 4 because that is like the first three months of the
calendar year that we are accounting for. We are on task to do the same if not more in
every single category. Kind of a significance that we will talk about later is the two slides
in there is the brush fires. If you remember, we had the same problem about 4 or 5 years
ago when we had someone running around setting fires all over the place, and so we will
talk about the here in a minute, but we tribute the increase of brush fires to that and we
are being proactive in doing things and we will talk about that in the presentation when we
get to prevention. We are still trying to keep up our prevention education encounters. We
are up to 10,000 already this year and again we will talk about that but it is a struggle with
the staffing levels that we are ending up with this year.
A couple things we are proud of, of course, 11 times State championship for the
Junior Life Guard program, second place in the National championship, and 45 individual
medals amazing. That is against 5,000 of the toughest kids in the United States that
attended that event and they did a tremendous job. Kalani and his group are commended
for the work that they did.
Then of course we were actually the 2014 (Staffing for Adequate Fire & Emergency
Response) SAFER award winners, I mean, in 2014 for the 2nd time we got the SAFER
award for 6 firefighters. We are kind of proud of that. It worked firefighters bond worked
hard at getting that written up so that we could get those new firefighter on board and that
resulted in our 25th recruit class which was the 1st class that finished the National Registry
Emergency Medical Technician Course, which we are providing to all the firefighters now a
little by little, and it will be a basic of our EMT (Emergency Medical Technician) class and
our recruit class. This actually the 1st class to finish with the Pro Board certification and I
say that is pending they are not done with the end of the year they have a final exam, and
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we are still working with the State on how to issue the certificates because the State
usually runs the Pro Board. It is not run by the department. But we use their program
and their standards to get firefighters trained. We are pushing forward in the department
as one of our goals to be the standard to have certifications for all the firefighter positions
from the firefighter recruit all the way to the Fire Chief. Again the IAF International
Association of Fire Chief Ben Franklin award is service, as you remembered, I walked out
of here on the budget meeting last year, we were going to receive this award, and again the
significance of this is besides all the great work and the heroism that was done in this job,
we are the only second fire department in the United States to receive this award twice.
So I got two slides, I am going to click forward and click back. There are two
different time frames. This one is February 16th, and March 31st of this year so this is kind
of the most recent update of all the fires, brush fires, and then this one starts on December
1st and so what was significant was that number that we had on the previous slide which
was 63, so we have had 63 brush fires since December Pt. So that is pretty significant. We
are working with KPD (Kaua`i Police Department) and their investigative services to try
and see if we can come up with any kind of patterns or any kind of suspects. Now they are
not arson fires so do not get me wrong. I am not saying we have got an arsonist out there
setting 63 fires in the last 3 months.
Councilmember Yukimura: 36, right?
Chief Westerman: I am sorry, 36, but if you add the two together,
there are 28 on this slide and there is 36 on this slide.
Councilmember Yukimura: And its additive?
Chief Westerman: Yes. This is to February 16th and this is from
February 16th to March 31st.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
Chief Westerman: I apologize. We could not get these...my IT
(Information Technology) guy was not available at the last minute to combine these slides.
I apologize it is confusing, yes. Ok, so that is kind of the overview so I would like to just go
into budget, or if you have questions on the slides.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Any questions on the slides?
Council Chair Rapozo: What is the Pro Board certification?
Chief Westerman: It is a professional certification it is an
organization that establishes the certification standards for firefighters and each State is
allowed one Pro Board Certification Office and that Office in Hawai`i is run by the State
Fire Airport Chief Martinez Jacobs.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you.
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Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Hooser.
Councilmember Hooser: If you could click back to one of the 1st slides
showing number of calls. My question is if you look at that slide what seems to jump out at
me overwhelmingly is the number of EMS calls. That 75%, so 75% of calls you get is not
fire or rescue, but they are EMS basically.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Hooser: And so that really jumps at me and one question
I get often in the community is why do you need those big trucks driving up Kuamo`o Road
with the with the small trucks if you going to somebody's house you know that kind. I am
sure you get the question also and does not that take that out of away from the station so if
there is a fire that kind of thing but the bigger question is a policy question about the EMS
calls. It seem like there should be from a layman's perspective, you know when let us say
you expending the fire, it almost seems like we should be expending the EMS more because
it seems like it that is lion's share of what you guys are doing. If you could speak to that for
a moment just let us know.
Chief Westerman: I could not agree more Councilmember Hooser.
It is call fire-based EMS. We are not ready to step into that today, but we are trying to
position ourselves to be able to do that in the future. You are right, it seems kind of odd
when we run the big fire truck to a house to do a medical call, but the fire truck still have
medical gear, and firemen on it, and its there routinely ahead of the ambulance service. In
the quantity of quantum of care there is what they call a golden hour and when we get the
dispatch call, we do not know if it is really a broken ankle or someone has actually a senior
has fallen and broken a hip and they might be bleeding internally, so we respond with
everything we have that we can get there as soon as we can. When the ambulance comes,
we turn the service over to them, and they do the transport. That is kind of the way
majority of the fire service has been for almost two hundred years. Of recent fire-based
EMS has been coming on board just like you said, because everybody is recognizing the fact
that we are doing all of this and we are providing all that EMS service and we are not
receiving any benefits for providing any service, so that is where fire-based EMS is. We are
just now starting doing the basic level emergency medical technician training, and that
training that they are getting is not a State level certification, but there is a juncture from
that level to the State level that is quick, if you get my meaning, so we are providing this,
and we are providing a higher quality of care to our community as we arrive. We are not
trying to grow the Fire Department, other than we built our first station in 63 years. I
mean the island has grown more than that in the last 63 years so we have added one Fire
Station.
Do I agree that we have to change our motto so that we can still provide our basic
level of service which is fire, which is what we are in charge to do, and the problem with
...If I might digress, the problem with not taking the big truck is if the crew is not there
and they need to go to a fire call than they need to go back to the fire truck. So they need to
by with their equipment at all times. And you are right, the smallest response time of what
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we have takes up the biggest part of the budget because that is what it takes to do the
operation safely and efficiently.
Councilmember Hooser: Okay.
Chief Westerman: I agree with you and I thank you for proposing
the question but I agree with you and I think we should move in that direction it is just
going to take time.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Follow-up question, Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, Chief, thanks for being here. The reason
you said the trucks have to go is it has firefighters on it, and if they are called to a real fire,
they have to go with their truck.
Chief Westerman: Right.
Councilmember Yukimura: The other reason was because you get there
before paramedics usually?
Chief Westerman: Most generally because we have more fire
stations around the island then they have ambulances.
Councilmember Yukimura: So could there not be a lot more discernment in
the dispatch calls and how they are how the determination is made what is needed to
respond to the call.
Chief Westerman: There could be some of that and they do, do that,
I forget the name of the program but they go through a scenario of questions to determine
the level of care but in Hawaii and on Kauai, we do not have and let me try to explain
some terms, BLS (Bureau of labor Statistics) which is basic level of care and an ALS, which
is an advanced level of care. We have only advanced level of care. So we do not dispatch to
a lower level of care. We dispatch the highest level of care. It is just not economical to have
that many more you would have to have double the ambulances, and then the dispatch
would say oh we only need a BLS unit and then they can wait 25-30 minutes so we do not
dispatch our department. That is not appropriate because at some point in time somebody
is going to call and say, I have this, and the dispatcher goes through the process and the
dispatcher determines it is only a lower level of care and by the time they get there the
person has had the heart attack or the stroke just got really bad and they cannot get any
additional care until advanced care show up. That is the other reason. Even though you
think you can talk them through it on the phone.
Councilmember Yukimura: No, no, no, I am not thinking of you talking them
through on the phone but there has to be some better way to do a response especially and
maybe there needs to be more coordination between the ambulance service and the
firefighting service, and I am just talking off the top off the top of my head, but I think the
management of resources is really important when budget is so tight and so what if you
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know if the firefighters have to go without their truck, then could the next station that is
standing by not be the one that responds to the fire that subsequently called and then our
people get because by then the ambulance service is there so our firefighters can go back
and respond. Can there not be this kind of coordination that would allow us to more
appropriately and cost effectively respond to true EMS? To EMS calls?
Chief Westerman: I understand what you are getting at and it is
difficult. I should have a video.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes.
Chief Westerman: The response to a fire actually needs to be
probably 10 times faster than response to a medical call.
Councilmember Yukimura: Sure.
Chief Westerman: If we go on that assumption that we are going to
leave the fire truck behind and let another district fire engine come in we are talking 5, 10,
15 minutes of burn time before that second engine can get into the district.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
Chief Westerman: Where if that engine is in the district and they
can leave one person behind waiting on the ambulance and providing the basic level of care
if that is what is needed, and then respond to the fire from in their district they can get
there sooner. If we are not on scene within about 5 minutes the house in at a point where it
is going to flash over and all is lost.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. So what if you have a rescue crew in
Lihu`e that is separate from the fire response group.
Chief Westerman: They respond with almost every fire.
Councilmember Yukimura: Both? Your regular crew and your rescue crew
go to the fire?
Chief Westerman: Every fire the rescue company response to
regardless of what district because it takes an air unit to provide additional support.
Councilmember Yukimura: But I mean for most of the time you do not have
a fire so what if your rescue crew was trained to do the emergency medical?
Chief Westerman: They are.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay so they would be the ones to respond to the
emergency medical without a fire truck but the fire crew is still back with the fire truck.
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Chief Westerman: Well than you are trying to take the rescue crew
in Lihu`e responding to a medical call at the end of the road in Ha`ena and it does not make
any sense.
Councilmember Yukimura: No, no, no, I am just saying...what about if you
just try this new model in Lihu`e where you have more, because I mean you know the new
model may have a really fast crew that goes out for rescues without a fire truck and what if
you pilot that model in Lihu`e where you have more people?
Chief Westerman: Thank you very much for presenting that
because that is exactly what we are going to do but we are not going to do it in Lihu`e. We
are going to do it in Hanalei. So when I leave here I am going to a course in National Fire
Academy about managing EMS in the fire service. And on my return, I will be stopping at
Valley Fire Rescue where they have a program model pilot model that you are talking about
just like that, and to review that program and to see if we can bring that back and pilot that
in Hanalei. Hanalei has the problem with the largest response time because it is such a big
district and it is so far away and when that ambulance actually treats a patient and then
now has to go all the way to Lihu`e to drop off their patient then come all the way back you
are talking about the ambulance being out of service for about 3 hours. So when it is out of
service, the ambulance from Kapa'a now has to respond all the way to Hanalei which again
extends the time for them to get there, so if we did not respond even if all we had was
engines and we did not respond with our engine than we would be responding at all. So
what you are talking about is what we are going to model in Hanalei and see how that
works just that what you are saying so that we would have an ambulance a non-transport
ambulance in Hanalei to provide ambulance service in support of AMR (American Medical
Response). So when they are out of district than if we needed a transport then we would
have an ambulance to transport.
Councilmember Yukimura: So you are thinking...
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura, I think this is more a
logistical question in operations. I would like to try and move on a little faster. I do not
know if we will be able to solve this issue here at Council, but we can definitely send in a
request to have Chief come back with a plan at another time. But I would like to move on a
little bit.
Councilmember Yukimura: You know I think it goes to the structure of the
Fire Department and how it is going to operate well within a framework of a limited
budget. I do not think we are trying to solve the problem but we are trying to understand
what direction the Fire Department is going into and if I can just finish in a few minutes,
we can go on.
Councilmember Hooser: If I can speak, I was not able to finish actually
when I first started asking the questions.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Yes, I was trying to get back to you.
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Councilmember Hooser: I kind of lost my train of thought but at some
point I would like to also ...
Council Chair Rapozo: I will wait.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: There is a follow-up question from
Councilmember Kuali`i and then Councilmember Hooser wanted to complete his
questioning.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Well you see I think it is an issue of great
interest and of great importance and I feel like this is sometimes where the discussion
happens in budget but I will try to keep it short. So I am glad that you know there is this
kind of resourceful creative thinking going on and is your intention to have a proposal
before us that is going to require additional funding or is it something that you are
planning to do within the realm of existing resources.
Chief Westerman: I cannot answer that question. Not until I sit
down and really consolidate a plan on how we make this model work.
Councilmember Yukimura: But you are doing a due diligence right now to
learn about different models that exist in the United States.
Chief Westerman: Yes, because I agree as Councilmember Hooser
pointed out, the bulk of our work is EMS work so how do we now change our model to help
facilitate that without increasing cost.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, and it is really hard to imagine that the
most cost effective way to handle the medical cost is to bring our big fire trucks there every
time.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Hooser.
Councilmember Hooser: Yes, Chief, thank you. I think it is important
discussion to have. I agree that it is budget implications but also just general operating
implications and what I was going to say was that I would like schedule a time in the future
committee item where you could come and answer these question and discuss in greater
detail maybe after you have further explored it what the plans might be. That would be an
appropriate time to do that. I wanted also say that my intent for asking the question was
not to attempt to micromanage your department, and not to suggest that I do not want you
to send those big trucks. I have been in the situation when many of us have when loved
ones called and I am thankful to get every truck and ambulance in town there as quickly as
possible and so I think many of us are very thankful for the service that you do. In moving
forward, we just want to look at a way of doing it as efficiently as possible, but not diminish
at any level, in my opinion, the level of service that people are getting at this point. I will be
sending over something...or we can communicate later in terms of doing a proper
presentation on the plans for the future.
April 7, 2015
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Chief Westerman: I would be happy to.
Councilmember Hooser: Okay thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Follow-up question, Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i: My questions are pretty simple and quick...it is
having to do with the slide. For me, I think it would have been more useful to see the EMS
calls 4,375 broken down so you...if someone had a heart attack and you actually had to save
their life, to me, that is a rescue. Are they all like that? I do not know. If there it does
breakdown having a breakdown would be helpful and I think the next line would be maybe
someplace we could work to reduce more or having dealt with some other way, because
when you said non-emergency, one of your examples were kids locked in cars. I am
wondering if the best responder to that is the fire or is that the police or is it a locksmith. I
do not think and I am not a parent, but if I was a parent, I would try to deal with it myself
before I call the Fire Department,that would be the last resort. I do not know what is more
cost efficient. Maybe it is free if I call the fire, but I am still paying for it in other ways taxes
or what have you and it is probably really expensive for a whole fire truck to go somewhere
or to get a cat out of the tree, or any of those silly examples too, but I think having that
broken down will give you a better sense and maybe in the committee meeting you can do
that. The other thing is if in the middle of those two columns, there was a column that had
the number of people served, that would be interesting too, so if you go out on a call because
one person had a heart attack, that is the one person served and if you go on an air rescue
78 times, how many people are you actually serving? The last piece is on the rescues and I
am assuming that line rescues are water rescues because there are jet skis right under it.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Kuali`i: And so the different between a regular water
rescue and a jetski water rescue is they are further out so you have to use the jet skis to get
to them?
Chief Westerman: Sometimes it is how far away it is where there is
no guarded beach close so we get there through jet skis.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: Chief, you know for the National Registered
Emergency Medical Technicians that the six recruits got, are they eligible for State
certification through this program?
Chief Westerman: No.
Councilmember Chock: So that is another track that they got to go to.
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Chief Westerman: Well the State is kind of in a quagmire right
now. They are actually having to re-establish their levels of care because the National
standard is changing and the State of Hawai`i has always kind of been at a higher, so they
are now negotiating with the National on what the level of care should be, but this program
will get us there we will look and what we are understanding is maybe an 80 hour
addendum to this course to get us to the State level.
Councilmember Chock: Okay. How many of our firefighters are National
or State certified?
Chief Westerman: 28.
Councilmember Chock: We got a good percentage then. So in terms of
the possibility of looking into the future and seeing how the fire in the U.S. responds.
There is a good variety set up in terms of moving in that direction and could take up a more
active role in it.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Chock: Okay and moving forward with the next recruit
classes are we looking at State certification or National EMT or is that going to be
something...
Chief Westerman: Well that will depend on where the state is on
adopting the new system.
Councilmember Chock: Okay.
Chief Westerman: It might require we might be able to provide that
training or we might have to provide still provide the additional training when we move
into the state system.
Councilmember Chock: But these are all paid for by grant funding
though?
Chief Westerman: Not all of them. Right now we are doing that
within budget and actually of significance is the fact that with this class that we are
teaching right now, we actually reduce the cost significantly because one of our staff
firefighters is also an EMT and he has been an EMT for some time. A State registered
EMT and he has also worked with Kapi`olani Community College so he is on our dime
helping teach the class so it is helping us save some of the cost because we have to hire the
State certifier from Kapi`olani Community College, the instructor so we save some money
by having our instructors and their help. It is fledging program and that is starting, and
we hope to improve those by reducing cost in the future.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you. I look forward to that discussion in
detail and whatever we can do to help support positioning the Department. Thank you.
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Committee Chair Chock: Council Chair Rapozo.
Councilmember Rapozo: Thank you, Chief, for being here. What would
you say the ballpark percentage times that the Fire gets there before the medics, because it
is relatively high, I would think.
Chief Westerman: Yes, it is relatively high. Seventy percent (70%).
Councilmember Rapozo: I think it is inevitable that one day Kaua`i will
see a fire-based EMS where we are one. I know there have been some resistance from AMR
in the past, but I think when you look at the numbers, the numbers do not lie. What is your
best estimate in time that it would take for us to get there?
Chief Westerman: I would say six (6) years.
Councilmember Rapozo: Six (6) years. Okay. I know that when we get
into the budget we, will talk more about the specifics, but I will just say that I think if you
work in dispatch you will understand that it is real difficult. When the call comes in, you
get a frantic parent, and KipuKai said he is not a parent but if he was a parent...if my kid
locked himself in a car and was a baby, I would not be calling 911, I would be calling a
window auto shop to buy a new window because I would break the window. I understand
911 is common and that is what you do when you need help, but not long ago we were on
O`ahu with my daughter and she had an episode, passed out, fainted, or whatever it was. I
still cannot figure out what it was but we called 911 and the Fire Department got there, we
were in a hotel, the Fire Department got there inside of ten (10) minutes. I am thinking six
(6) or seven (7) minutes they were there and a lot of them came up and I heard...and the
ambulance did not come for probably twenty (20) minutes. I do not know if what we would
have done if the Fire did not come early. I sense and appreciate the concerns but I think
what we are doing is the right way to do it. I think the public, when they are in the crisis
and they have an issue whether it is an accident, stroke...most times people do not know
what is happening unless it is an accident. If it is a sick illness or somebody they find
unconscious and they just do not know and I have seen your personnel firsthand,
personally, and you folks provide a valuable service so I would like to see us move towards
that fire base EMS. I think the pilot project in the North Shore would be a good at least an
introduction for us to see if it works or not. So I am looking forward to having that
discussion at some point. Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: . Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Chief, when you are talking about a firebased
EMS does that mean that the Fire Department would be responsible for all EMS services or
that we are going to have both the county-level fire -based EMS and the state EMS Services
together?
Chief Westerman: Yes and no. Fire-based EMS, the fire
department will be the primary responder and transporter of EMS services. They do not
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provide non-emergent services so a private provider will still be required to provide non-
emergent services and what that includes is transport between hospitals, transport from
care homes to hospital, transport from homes to clinics, that is still done by the private
sector and that is the model that is done everywhere. It is what done in Big Island,
Honolulu, pretty much every model that fire-based EMS.
Councilmember Yukimura: How much does it cost to provide the other state
service?
Chief Westerman: I do not know. I have not even got into that. But
our service would be provided through the State. The cost of our service would be divided
by the State with a contract with the state. The State pays for emergency medical services
and again it would take me hours to define everything that would happen it should be part
of another conversation I think.
Councilmember Yukimura: Right. Okay, thank you. Coming to your slide
about your calls.
Chief Westerman: About which one, I am sorry.
Councilmember Yukimura: You have not numbered your slides.
Chief Westerman: I am sorry, I apologize. There were only 8 so...
Councilmember Yukimura: But anyway. What happened in 2014? Your
other calls were those responses we actually go out as well?
Chief Westerman: Yes. They could be hazmat calls, or could be
severe weather calls or helping somebody with window vents or flooding vents.
Councilmember Yukimura: I am going to just follow-up with a request to
classify those calls I just want to know...
Chief Westerman: I can provide that to you. There is 13 different
categories that we track, there is over 300 different qualifiers, so to keep the slide from
being overly large.
Councilmember Yukimura: Of course. Then the rescues 215 in 2014 that is
the number of incidents not people, right?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Because like in that heroic rescue in Hanakapiai
that you folks were nationally recognized for, thank you and congratulation again, that was
like 121 hikers. 0 those rescues that you have listed, how many were helicopter rescues?
Chief Westerman: On which ones?
April 7, 2015
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Councilmember Yukimura: The 215.
Chief Westerman: That is Air 1 calls, above 82.
Councilmember Yukimura: So the 215 do not include the helicopters. Okay.
2015 where you have the brush fires, your statistics again.
Chief Westerman: Okay.
Councilmember Yukimura: As I mentioned I do not know if it was your most
recent fire. Have you had one since the one that was close to the Hyatt last week?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: I mean I was close by and I was personally very
thankful that the fire department existed and fighting that fire so valiantly. So thank you
for that. Can you give us a cost per fire? What is the average cost per fire for the response?
Chief Westerman: I could not give it to you today but I imagine I
can give it to you sometime in the future.
Councilmember Yukimura: And then in prevention education your
encounters, you know, even though emergency medical are the most call your prevention
education is in fire.
Chief Westerman: Try again.
Councilmember Yukimura: Even though it looks like your services are
evolving more toward emergency medical, all your prevention efforts are fire prevention,
which is not bad. I am just taking note, right, or do you do other prevention education.
DARRYL DATE, Fire Prevention Captain : All those encounters that is the
number of people we have made conversation with. We bring them through the fire safety
trailer teaching them fire safety in the home. We also incorporate water safety. We have
brochures from the Ocean Safety Bureau regarding ocean safety. We also talk about fall
prevention, and we also have been bring out a CPR (Cardio Pulmonary Resuscitation)
mannequin and quickly demonstration procedures on how to do CPR.
Councilmember Yukimura: That is excellent. So in your water safety
prevention, do you talk about not diving head first?
Mr. Date: Yes, we go over the main one is rip currents on
what to do if they do get stuck in rip currents.
Councilmember Yukimura: That is valuable information.
April 7, 2015
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Mr. Date: And we have been teaching that to all the
elementary school children that have been coming through and at the community events
that we bring the trailer to.
Councilmember Yukimura: So are you in touch with the Department of
Health in terms of accident prevention and what the most common and damaging accidents
are?
Mr. Date: In regards to?
Councilmember Yukimura: I am just recalling a report that talks you know
Department of Health is responsible for overall health and safety and...
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura, I think that Daryl
will be here for fire prevention?
Mr. Date: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: We can wait for fire prevention.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: I would like to try to get to the divisions.
Chief Westerman: I think we can answer those questions more fully
as we go through each bureau cause you are right I mean cause on of the things about that
program is it is not just fire prevention we also have the American Red Cross every time we
can to get them to (inaudible) and we have the ocean safety group for this when we come.
Each one can kind of answer those questions.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: If there is no further questions on the...
Councilmember Yukimura: I have questions that follow-up on
Councilmember Chock's question on training.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Okay.
Councilmember Yukimura: May I? So I too do not understand Pro Board
certification and you said that is the standard at the State level?
Chief Westerman: National level.
Councilmember Yukimura: So it is a National standard for firefighters?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: In skills and background?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
April 7, 2015
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Councilmember Yukimura: So we have a goal I mean I recall there a similar
I guess certification process for teachers in the DOE (Department of Education) system so
that is a standard that we are striving for in terms of the greater percentage of firefighters
trained with this certification indicates a higher capacity of capability.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay and I am sorry I do not remember, is that
part of your goals and objectives?
Chief Westerman: I do not know if it is in this presentation but it is
part of our goals and objectives in the department to establish and we determine Pro Board
was the one we were going to use because there are two. Nurse National Fire Service
Accreditation Council and Pro Board and our goal is to have the program completely
absorbed into the department and every firefighter all the way to Fire Chief, would be
certified. An example is I actually hold almost every single certificate that there is as
certification only because of my prior service and using those programs. And we are slowly
again getting individuals certified because you have to be as an instructor and certified at a
certain level in order to certify a lower level so that is where we kind of are in the process
right now.
Councilmember Yukimura: Well that is very admirable to have that kind of
commitment to high level training and you said there is 28 now out of how many
firefighters.
Chief Westerman: 136 on the line.
Councilmember Yukimura: 28, okay, so that is a pretty substantial
percentage?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: And the significance of the National registered
emergency medical technicians that is also part of your move toward higher EMS capacity?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: And the recruit class is the first one to actually
have that kind of training and be certified in it at the end of the class' education?
Chief Westerman: Yes. We have other EMTs but they were not
trained in that class. They actually work for AMR that also work for us or got their
certification from PMRF (Pacific Missile Range Facility).
Councilmember Yukimura: Right. This is the first time it has been
incorporated into your training.
April 7, 2015
Fire Department (mn)
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Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay, thank you.
Chief Westerman: And I guess if I can get my copy back of what was
handed out. To answer Councilmember Kuali`i's question, I have some information on, and
I agree with you I mean that is a number of Air 1 calls, rescues 78. We know one particular
incident had 60, so that is the number of calls, not the number of people, because not every
call is one person. I would say the majority are, one person, but and not in all cases. The
same with EMS, if I might address that real quick, the majority of our EMS call are serving
one person but that is not always the case especially an automobile accident might have
two or three but most residents call are one person.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Follow-up question, Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you, so we are talking about Air 1 calls,
82, and the rescues 215, and you said that was all ocean or does that include dispatching
Air 1.
Chief Westerman: That is dispatching Air 1 too.
Councilmember Chock: How much of that? All of that 215 is all Air 1 as
well?
Chief Westerman: No.
Councilmember Chock: Okay.
Chief Westerman: About 82 of them are Air 1.
Councilmember Chock: 82 okay, thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: I was not clear, you do not dispatch a helicopter
every time there is a fire or do you?
Chief Westerman: Not immediately, no.
Councilmember Yukimura: Only if it is needed for sure brush fires seem to
be logical.
Chief Westerman: Yes, that is one of the first things that the
battalion Chief ask the responding Captain is, "Let me know as soon as you can if you need
a helicopter," and we usually put the crew on standby but they do not go anywhere they just
sit there and wait until we decide whether or not there are going to go fly the helicopter.
April 7, 2015
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Committee Chair Kaneshiro: You have more questions on the spreadsheet? I
rather not go through the details on the helicopter rescues, I would rather stick to budget.
Councilmember Yukimura: I have some questions about how much a
helicopter rescue costs and also whether or not, I mean this is from pass budgets. I am very
thankful that there is a designation of resident or visitor because when we go before the
legislature to ask for TAT (transient accommodation tax) moneys which is a big issues, so I
believe these are relevant budget questions.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: They are but I rather bring it into a budget
discussion.
Chief Westerman: Yes, when we talk about the department
administration, we can talk about that. That is where operations is.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Because helicopter is in that budget so I rather
keep the discussion in that division.
Councilmember Yukimura: Alright, if that is where the helicopter discussion
is, we had some questions about helicopters rescues, so I thought it was okay to ask but I
can wait.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: I really want to start getting into the divisions
already. If there is no more pressing questions on the spreadsheet, I would like to move on
to the individual divisions. Chief, did you want to give us an overview? We are going
through this one at a time and if you want to give a quick overview about it and then we
will ask questions after that.
Chief Westerman: Yes, just a quick over view of the whole budget. I
mean we could do 50, 60 pages on every line item in the budget and we chose not to. We
chose to give you the opportunity to ask as much questions as you want about every
division. I intentionally did not put the mission statement for every bureau in there. I only
have our department mission statement and as you can see it is lined up with some of our
successes, and then we first start off with the department administration which includes
operations and so we can start there if you want and then I can bring them up.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Also if you can just direct us where would the
best conversation be for the helicopter if it is in administration. I know there is a helicopter
line item in every division, but if the discussion should be now rather than later than...
Chief Westerman: I think that would be appropriate as soon as we
get through this part of the session then we can allow open questions. Under the
department and administrations and operations section, again, we are very brief on what
we have there. We listed some of the successes for the department which really covers all
the bureaus but things like the strategic planning if you remember you funded that for two
years, and we are on phase two right now and we still are on target to be done by June 15th.
April 7, 2015
Fire Department (mn)
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We will actually have a one of our four schedules strategic planning working group
meetings tomorrow with our consultant and that is on track. One of the things that the
Ocean Safety Bureau did was complete a supervisory training for ocean safety supervisors.
It is one of the first ones that we have done. We realize that we were really struggling in
providing some good supervisory skills trainings to the different bureaus. Where in the fire
operations side, we get that from the National Fire Academy pretty frequently here, and so
we are adding them to that venue but we provided with our reallocation to the new WSO
IVS (Water Safety Officer) and the WSO IIIs in the bureau. We added that training and
great help from all of the County HR (Human Resources) came in and did some great
training on ethics and workplace violence policies, those kinds of things, and also with the
County Attorney came in and provided some good training for them also. We brought in
Mr. Lee Matsui to go over labor relations and I do not know if you know him but he has
worked on both sides. He has been on the union side as the manager and he has been an
HR director, I believe, in Maui or City and County of Honolulu. Keeping up with our goals,
have a current Captain in the EFO (Executive Fire Officer) program. That is Executive
Fire Officer Program that is part of our succession planning and our growth of our Fire
Captains. That was Captain Lake and he is currently working improving incident report
data entry for the Kauai Fire Department. EMS/RMS data the records management
system is where we get the information from. Then we did the typical things that firemen
always do besides fighting fires. Help out with the seniors' day, and the St. Valentines' Day
dance. Again, the union strong support of hospice and the firemen working in the hospice
program, all comes out of the operations bureau. We also get support out of the other
bureaus on those particular events but prevention is working hard at the hospice events so
no volunteer time for them on that one. Lights on Rice, is over about a thousand man hours
of volunteer time. So again, as you saw the slide that we had before the response criteria
that we had 72% of response out of operations is EMS. I will not belabor that slide, but
that is I guess kind of the elephant in the room, we have been working on it, we recognize
it, and we are trying to find ways to manage it.
Grants as a percentage of budget, we just threw that in there so you know only
because it is starting to diminish and so you know we have used grants is we do not count
on grants at any time, but as we establish our needs from year to year, if grant funding is
available, we charge out and try to get it funded through grant funding. We have to be
careful we are not supplanting budgets those kinds of things, but we do not count on that
grant to any grant that is out there to pay us anything on our budget. We just try and if we
have a need and we have a grant that fits it we try to supply that need with that grant and
that really just saves the county money in the general fund by being able to get a grant
funded. Say for an example of that 1.5 million for the Kaiakea Station. We knew we had to
have the firefighters we were lucky to get the first year and a half paid for fully, if you look
at it that way by grant. We completed reorganization with the administration staff. We
had a vacant position, our payroll specialist and that recruitment is just about done. Ms.
Bettencourt, you are going to talk about the vacancies, promotions, and the hiring.
ROSE BETTENCOURT, Administrative Services Officer: For the record Rose
Bettencourt, Administrative Services Officer for the Fire Department. For our bureau,
what we did we tried to reorganize our staff, so it would be more efficient, so we could
provide better, faster service. So what we did was we had our one of our positions
April 7, 2015
Fire Department (mn)
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reallocated to Payroll Specialist and that position is going to work with Human Resources
to complete our payroll. From what I understand, eventually the position may go over to
Human Resources. We also assisted the Ocean Safety Bureau with their organization of
their section to create the Water Safety Officer IV, so their operation, the supervision is not
so flat. They now have their four Water Safety Officer IV and the tower supervisors. We
are working on assisting Ocean Safety Bureau to fill their vacancies. Their recruitment
period has completed and they are in the process of doing the interviews. Essentially, we
are trying to get the department and get the bureau situated so that they can perform more
efficiently and do what they are supposed to be doing. And also Ocean Safety, we did work
on getting them clerical support staff, which they desperately need.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Okay, any questions for administration division?
Councilmember Hooser.
Councilmember Hooser: I assume this is where the question would be
asked. I jokingly said where are the women earlier when I said, "hello," to the firemen in
the room and so what is the deal on gender balance overall in the department. Do you not
get applicants or why are there not more women both in water safety as well as in other
parts.
Chief Westerman: We get applicants. Most of the applicants do not
make it through the physical agility process. However, the current listing that we have
right now has a female that has made it through that part of the application process. I
guess getting enough applicants in order for them to be enough success might be an issue. I
do not know what to say other than that. We have a female Water Safety Officer, she has
been with us for quite some time. We had three female firefighters in the past. One is
retired, one has moved to Big Island, and one had moved on several years ago even before I
got here. So the biggest hurdle is the agility test on the fire side. The ocean safety side, I do
not know that we have had many applicants female applicants for ocean safety as many as
we have had for fire. But the failure rate is pretty high whether it is male or female. Out
of about 300 applicants, maybe 100 make it to the agility test, and only about 20 pass the
agility.
Councilmember Hooser: Okay, thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i: My question is specifically on the reallocation
because when I look at the latest quarterly report from personnel on vacancies they show
the Payroll Specialist as vacant since July 16 of 2014. Is the Payroll Specialist the newly
reallocated position and if that is case what was the old position that was reallocated from?
Ms. Bettencourt: The Payroll Specialist position was formally was
an Account Clerk position. When we went out for recruitment we had several people apply
so what happen was we did our interviews we had our selection and I am glad to say she is
supposed to start on the 16th of this month.
April 7, 2015
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Councilmember Kuali`i: That was my next question. The 16th of this
month.
Ms. Bettencourt: Yes.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Then the only other question as far as positions
in this division is the dollar funding for the Deputy Fire Chief. I see in the organizational
structure of this division. The Deputy Fire Chief sits below the Fire Chief and then there
us two positions under the Deputy Chief or maybe three. The Secretary SR16, the Lead
Fire Equipment Mechanic, and the Fire Equipment Mechanic. So without Deputy Chief
there to report to, who will those three positions report to?
Chief Westerman: Me.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Okay. That is clear. Any other vacancies besides
the Payroll Specialist which has been filled, are there any other vacant positions of the list
of ten or so on page 130.
Ms. Bettencourt: In administration?
Councilmember Kuali`i: Yes.
Ms. Bettencourt: No.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Okay. Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: I have a follow-up question on the dollar funded
Deputy Fire Chief. Is there any intent of filling that position? Is that a needed position?
Police has a Deputy Chief so I was wondering if Fire needs a Deputy Fire Chief or it affects
services. It is not the intent to have a Deputy Chief?
Chief Westerman: No, we desperately need a Deputy Chief or some
replacement in some fashion to do that. The problem is the procurement pay inversion.
There is nobody willing to step up out of the staff to take the position, i.e., the reason the
two Deputy Chiefs have step down because of the pay inversions. So the workload, yes, just
gets as Councilmember Kuali`i just asked, gets transferred to my plate which makes the
struggle more for me. The relief for me is to just push out additional duties to other
battalion chiefs like BC Hosaka, BC Kaui, or BC Ornellas to perform some of those duties
but it does create a big struggle but at this point why fund it if we cannot fill it. So in
conversation with the administration, we are trying to come up with some options and
opportunities beyond today. I mean it just simply is not going to happen today. I will tell
you and to be quite honest with you in case somebody has come to you and told you I had
three people tell me and say, "I will be your Deputy Chief tomorrow." Those are people
outside of the Fire Department and two (2) of them were very clear, they just wanted a job,
and that is not what that position is about. That position needs knowledge, skills, and
experience in the fire service, and needs to have that commitment to staying there long-
term. It is really a growth position. Is it possibly the next Fire Chief? You can get to
April 7, 2015
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Page 21
where I am from anywhere, but the result might not be what would really be the best for
the Fire Department or the County. I am replaceable. I understand that. We need to make
sure that we replace myself or the Deputy's position with someone that really can perform
the task at hand.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: To clarify, you mentioned that it is possible to
pass on certain duties to other members in the Fire Department and it is not just because
you are the Deputy Fire Chief, those certain duties can only be between the Fire Chief and
Deputy Fire Chief. It is not like you have two (2) jobs. If you are sick, you can still pass on
some of the duties and responsibilities.
Chief Westerman: Some, not all. Especially in the form of
discipline, firing actions, and that kind of things. We are outside the union for a reason. We
are managers for a reason, and I cannot push down that reasonability to a union member,
that is one. Working with them to help manage an individual, I mean, we can pass that on,
but you have to realize that everybody's plates are already full. You can only slice the
salami so thin, and at this point in time, there is no more salami to slice. We simply do not
get it done and it will just fall off the plate. That challenge is happening every day. But
we do take the challenge and move forward.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Administrative wise, I see how it can be a
problem. More pressing...like if you are fighting a fire or doing something immediately, are
there any duties that that position would be hindering you from fighting a fire or doing
something of that matter?
Chief Westerman: No, quite the opposite. Whatever they are doing,
they are going to drop, and go fight the fire. We are not going to not fight the fire. We are
not, not respond to the medical calls, but everything else is not going to get done.
Procurements are going to take forever, we are going to lose funding because one of the
problems that we have is that most of our procurement work is done by our firefighters,
additional duty. They are not procurement specialists but that is what they do. They work a
different schedule then the folks that work in procurement, so they might be four (4) or five
(5) days before there is no contact which can cause problems in the procurement process.
That is just an example. Or if they are working on a project for me and then they are gone
for four (4) days, then I have to wait four (4) days for them to come back, and then have the
conversation about what they did or were or were not able to get accomplished so that we
can move forward. That is part of the problem, not having somebody on the forty (40) hour
shift, like a Deputy or Assistant Chief that can stay and work it routinely throughout the
week.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: I think the question has been answered but, you
know the inversion situation is a really big issue. I am not sure if we can solve it through
the union process but the process to "Fire Chief," or a continuity plan towards Fire
Chief...is there a possibility of redesigning a position so that there is a step process to
getting to your seat? So that we do not get people off the street who can essentially fill the
April 7, 2015
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seat, or is it an undesirable position because of the inversion? We need to figure something
out in terms of being able to move people in the right direction.
Chief Westerman: We were kind of working on a succession plan
until this big inversion hit and we kind of blew it out of the water. I agree with you. I have
said in the past that there need to be a position for somebody to fail, and I know that
doesn't sound right, but somebody needs to be in a position of authority to make a decision
that is not always the best decision. That is where you learn. If you are doing things right
all the time, you are not really learning anything. You are just repeating yourself. If you
actually make a mistake then you have to learn from that mistake so that you do not make
it again. We do not have people in that position because they do not have the authority to
make those decisions. Again, I can push down certain things to the Battalion Chiefs but the
ultimate responsibility is still me because I cannot push certain responsibilities to them. I
can push certain responsibilities to a Deputy Chief because of the position he holds in the
Department and then he can fail at making those decisions and we can talk about them
afterwards. We are not talking about a life and death decision here but still when you are
learning to become a manager, it is not just being a supervisor, it is learning to become a
manager, you have to have that opportunity to grow. I agree, we are struggling trying to
figure out if there are other ways to do it. We used the National Fire Academy. You got a
lot of learning experience in the National Fire Academy, but that takes folks off the job
though for almost ten (10) days. Luckily, they pay for everything except for the meals. We
might have to buy some occasional overtime to fill those positions like when Caption's or
the BC's go. We explore those opportunities as best we can and do as much as we can but
without the Deputy Chief position or at least an...I do not know if an AC's position still can
manage but how much responsibility can we pass to them, that we would be able to
normally pass to a Deputy Chief, I do not know. We are in discussions with the
Administration about that.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Council Chair Rapozo.
Councilmember Rapozo: Chief, and I think your plate is full.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Rapozo: We had that discussion many times. I am kind
of concerned about dollar funding the Deputy's position and I understand the problem. Is it
possible to TA (temporary assignment) an existing Battalion Chief (BC) to that position as
an Acting Deputy whereby that BC would be able to retain their salary because they have
not been appointed to the Deputy Chief, so the Salary Commission would not...it would not
be required. Basically, you TA someone up, and then you TA everybody else up. I do not
like the TA but in this case, the inversion, you are not going to get the quality that you are
looking for. It is just not going to happen. I am concerned about vacant positions and the
Police Department too, I am really concerned because bad things can happened when no
one is around. We have seen that. Is that possible to TA some BC up to the Acting Deputy
where they would retain their salary and then fill the BC position?
April 7, 2015
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Chief Westerman: I have never thought through that process
considering one was an appointed position and the other was not. We TA routinely all the
way up to the BC. Without really thinking through the whole process, I do not know how
deep I would want to get into the discussion right now, but I would think that when you are
TA from a BC, for example, would TA from a forty (40) hour work week, his pay is not the
same. He loses a lot of the...that is why the Deputy went back down. There is paid benefits
on that different work schedule that are not provided to a forty (40) hour a work person.
Does that make sense?
Councilmember Rapozo: Yes.
Chief Westerman: If you still do not overcome the inversion, and
you might overcome some of it, you might narrow that window...I do not know if that is
enough. I would have to explore that and then I would have to talk to the BC's and see if
someone would be willing to do that.
Councilmember Rapozo: I understand that because the Deputy does not
qualify for overtime, right?
Chief Westerman: Right.
Councilmember Rapozo: And the Battalion Chiefs do.
Chief Westerman: Right.
Councilmember Rapozo: Okay. What was that?
Chief Westerman: I am being told that it has been done before, but
it was rare.
Councilmember Rapozo: Yes, and I think that takes away the
requirement of the salary, but I think with the way the collected bargaining agreements are
today it is going too hard to find someone who is willing to take the promotion for a cut in
pay. Normally only in government that happens. Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: I just want to say that if you can do it at least it
helps for the training that you are talking about. The training for kind of a succession
planning it sounds like it would take someone who is willing to forgo the overtime but at
least they would get their salary.
Chief Westerman: Yes but the other biggest problem with that is
longevity.
Councilmember Yukimura: You want to explain.
April 7, 2015
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Chief Westerman: If I was to say offer that to BC Hosaka and he
agree to do that. He and I are both going in three years, so all that really did was provide
us some work relief. It did not provide us the opportunity to provide the skills and
education to somebody that could step up to be Chief. I do not look at the Deputy Chief
only as a position that helps me manage the department today, but a possible person to be
that new or next Fire Chief. The succession planning, again, going back to you have to be
put into a position to make those mistakes to learn from them to be the Chief.
Councilmember Yukimura: But I was assuming that you would make the
selection for the TA person based on that. Somebody who is younger but is potential Chief
and we do that and...
Chief Westerman: And that is kind of what we did Chief Blalock
because he was a young Captain in the department and you know he has the right skills
sets and all of that.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay did I say the wrong thing? Okay somebody
who has a longer tenure scope.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: The other thing, just because maybe BC Hosaka
may have interpreted as you saying that he was very old. I am sorry.
Councilmember Yukimura: Never my intention, sir.
Council Chair Rapozo: He is like me, we get little bit white hair, but we
both graduated, we are 28 years old.
Councilmember Yukimura: Well so good you look so distinguished.
Councilmember Hooser: Just a quick follow-up.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Hooser.
Councilmember Hooser: The more mature and experienced candidate
might also be appropriate for the same position, I would think. Yes?
Chief Westerman: Yes. I agree.
Councilmember Hooser: Thank you.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you for articulating my point.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kuali`i.
April 7, 2015
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Councilmember Kuali`i: I am looking at all the different organizational
flow charts and I am trying to understand these three Battalion Fire Chief positions 610,
611, 612, they are all assigned to red, blue, and green is that how it works?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Kuali`i: And red has the Training Bureau and Fire
Rescue Hazmat Emergency Medical Response. Blue has Prevention Bureau and also Fire
Rescue Hazmat Emergence Medical Response, and green just has Fire Rescue Hazmat
Emergency Medical Response. Then the fourth, I guess, is Ocean Safety Bureau but do
they break down also by geographic areas or they all cover all areas.
Chief Westerman: They all cover the entire island. Only one is on
at a time.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Oh, yes, so it is a...
Chief Westerman: It is a rotation.
Councilmember Kuali`i: So it is a 24 hour shift.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: I do not want to kill any discussion, but I am
looking at our time and we are at almost 10:15, and we still have 4 more departments to go,
and we have Police this afternoon. I am just going to ask if we have logistical questions
maybe we keep it for a later and we try to focus more on the numbers in the budget. Again,
I am not trying to break the discussion, but just trying to speed it up a little bit.
Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you, Chair. So in your three years actual
expenditures that is at the front of your budget, and if I should be bringing this up at
another time please let me know in our budget hearings. You show a collective bargaining
line item of $39,000 in 2012 and then for the request in this year's budget it is $70,000,
which is more than doubled over three years. I just wondered what the explanation is for
that.
Chief Westerman: Let me get a second to look at it.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: If you need some time maybe do not want to put
you on the spot or we have to wait a long time for the answer. We can take a note and we
will send that question through. It is an important question, a good question, but if you
guys don't have the answer right away...
Chief Westerman: I can answer it. It is the increase in the physical
cost, annual physicals.
April 7, 2015
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Councilmember Yukimura: It is increase in annual physical costs?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: And is that because of medical costs that it has
gone up, or more firefighters getting physicals?
Chief Westerman: No, we go out for bid and we take the lowest
bidder, and so that has gone up over the years. Some years actually was higher a previous
year if I do recall it was higher in 2013, and then it kind of went down again in 2014, and it
kind of fluctuates depending on who we get to bid.
Councilmember Yukimura: But it cost us $70,000 to pay for physicals?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: How many people get physicals, and how many
physicals is that paying for?
Chief Westerman: I think it is a hundred forty-two.
Councilmember Yukimura: Is that because our firefighter's need to have a
physical every year.
Chief Westerman: All firefighters have to have a physical annually,
yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: That is very expensive.
Chief Westerman: And they all get blood work and everything that
goes along with it.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. So I am going to ask my question about
helicopters.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: And I was thinking about that question and
would it be better to answer that question in operations rather than...
Chief Westerman: They can do operations right now its part of the I
have operations in part of...
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Okay, I want to get through Administration first
though. Would the helicopter be better in operations?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
April 7, 2015
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Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Okay, so let us stick to the Administration, so we
can get the Administration Division out.
Councilmember Yukimura: Sure.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Anymore questions? I have a question on
consultant services. We had $30,000 last year, we dollar funded it this year, what was that
amount for?
Chief Westerman: That was for the strategic plan.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Okay and we will not need that money?
Chief Westerman: No, we funded it in two different years and we
are in phase 2 right now so we would not need it next year.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Any further questions for Administration? Okay,
now we can move on to operations.
Chief Westerman: As you can see in the presentation you have
there is not a division exactly called "operations" because they are kind of inclusive in the
entire department. At this time if you want to ask anything about the budget section in
operations or any questions in operations, like the helicopter, that would be the time to ask.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura I think you had some
questions about the helicopter.
Councilmember Yukimura: Actually, I am asking them because I get
questions from the public. Do we send out a helicopter for every time a person sprains their
ankle in Hanakapfai or the North.
Chief Westerman: No.
Councilmember Yukimura: And how do we screen when we send the
helicopters?
Chief Westerman: Usually, the first part of the screening is done
when the call comes in. The nature of the call. Kind of like an ambulance call this is the
nature of the call. Depending on the time of day or severity of the call we might
automatically launch the helicopter depending on what the call came in the severity or we
might say they are on standby and they do not leave Lihu`e airport and if it is in
Hanakapi`ai, the station 1 crew, or in some cases even the water safety officer run up the
first part of the trail if it is that close, to try and determine what the nature of the call is.
At that point, once the call is determined that they cannot walk out and depending on time
of day it might be a lot safer and more efficient to fly them out with the helicopter we will
fly them out with the helicopter. Or the nature of the call we launch the helicopter and we
April 7, 2015
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pick them up. But not every person that has any kind of injury up in the trail gets pulled
out by helicopter.
Councilmember Yukimura: I am still not clear what your criteria are.
Chief Westerman: The nature and the level of the call. And in some
cases there are going to be people that try and "bs" the system, and there is nothing we can
do about that.
Councilmember Yukimura: We can charge them.
Chief Westerman: We can have that discussion again at some other
time. We have gone through this several times about the charging, criteria and if the
Council wants to sit down and we work out an ordinance change I would be happy to do
that but currently we cannot do that with the State law and the County ordinance, we
cannot charge.
Councilmember Yukimura: Well I mean there is if we did not have a
helicopter we would not have these issues people would figure out how to get out sometimes
and I know of people have done it who have not called a helicopter. So when you get a
helicopter then you have to figure out a system that is going to respond or if it is going to be
for something because somebody is just too tired and does not want to walk out and they
use our service at a huge cost then there has to be some way to have a reimbursement on
that and we should have really clear criteria about when it is a public health emergency
verses somebody who is not use to being out in the wild and is uncomfortable and wants to
come back in or who has a mother who is calling and concerned about them and they are
fine. You know how do you distinguish between those things because these are public cost
and I would like a better accounting of how much these trips are costing us so I will ask for
an average costing which includes paying off the helicopter the helicopter infrastructure
support. We should figure out all of that because it is costing us and the taxpayers all that
money.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Hooser.
Councilmember Hooser: Yes, just a brief follow-up. A lot of people do ask
about this the cost and why we cannot be reimbursed or charge. If you could restate what
is the law that prevents us from doing that.
Chief Westerman: Well, we have to prove that they intentionally
put themselves in harms way. That is what it says.
Councilmember Hooser: That is what the State law says or
Chief Westerman: That is what the County ordinance says that
they intentionally put themselves in harm's way. Now if we do that...
April 7, 2015
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Council Chair Rapozo: I believe it is the state...I am sorry for
interrupting the standard of negligence.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: So you basically got to prove so there is a vehicle
of mechanism we had the discussion but we I think after this last couple that you have
done, it is time to seriously look at that.
Chief Westerman: Sure, and I am willing to sit down and have that
conversation again and go through the process to try and find a way to do that. I am not
adverse to it. I am just saying currently there is no mechanism for me to do that.
Councilmember Hooser: I think many people realize that if you call an
ambulance, and you go to the hospital, and you get billed for it. I mean that is just what
happens and hopefully have insurance, and if not they will chase you for the money, and
maybe write it off if you cannot afford to pay. So that seems to most people to myself to
that is how these things should work and I agree we need to have this discussion and look
at the ordinance if need be. I would imagine there is insurance like people have
homeowners insurance they have health insurance and that some of this insurance may
cover this type of thing too. I would hope so. Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Members anymore questions on operations?
Councilmember Kuali`i.
•
Councilmember Kuali`i: My questions might be a little lengthy it has to
do with positions. I want to have an understanding of the dollar funded positions. So the
first on is 790. And it is a Firefighter 1 in Hanalei. So the determination is you would not
need that position for the next fiscal year and that is why you dollar funded that correct?
You anticipate you can do without that position for the next fiscal year?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Kuali`i: And the next one is in Kapa'a Fire Station
position 787 and that was vacant since December and it is also dollar funded. I think there
is a third and final one there. What is the third one? Oh, 725 Firefighter III KOloa, also
vacant since December.
Chief Westerman: No we are not going dollar fund that position.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Okay so the mistake is in the Human Resources
quarterly report, I guess, and that was since March 24th so things might have changed since
then?
Chief Westerman: Yes. We are going to move a Firefighter III into
that position from the bureau.
April 7, 2015
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Councilmember Kuali`i: The other thing I noticed was that in your budget
you have the salary at $73,716 and in the Human Resources' vacancy report, it had it at
$82,000. Is it because there is a range and what it is currently at versus what it could be?
Chief Westerman: For which position?
Councilmember Kuali`i: The same position 725 Firefighter III Koloa.
Chief Westerman: It might have been the salary level of the last
person who filled that position.
Councilmember Kuali`i: The last person to fill.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Okay.
Chief Westerman: The younger Firefighter III goes in there he is
got less seniority.
Councilmember Kuali`i: In essence, most of these salaries are somewhere
in range. Was it like five steps or...
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Kuali`i: So there is the lowest and the highest five steps.
So what you are budgeting for, is what you paying or you budgeting for the highest level or
what they could be promoted to in the next fiscal year?
Ms. Bettencourt: When we do our budget we calculate based on
the person's actual salary and what they will receive in the form of a pay increase
throughout the upcoming fiscal year.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Okay. I am good for now.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: Chief, do we have a cost control for our
helicopter. A cost control plan for the helicopter?
Chief Westerman: No.
Councilmember Chock: No, okay. So has there been any discussion on
that in previous years?
Chief Westerman: No.
April 7, 2015
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Councilmember Chock: Interesting.
Chief Westerman: We had a use policy.
Councilmember Chock: Okay.
Chief Westerman: Which I guess could be considered some kind of
a cost management, but we just have a use policy.
Councilmember Chock: I will not belabor it and I know we will talk
about it as we move forward, but can we get a copy of that as well?
Chief Westerman: Sure.
Councilmember Chock: Mahalo.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: On your 3-year actuals expenditures under rank-
for-rank fire operations you show 2012 at $111,000, and then it went down 2013, 2014 to
$55,057, and last year it was $859,000, and this $907,000 almost a million dollars. Can you
explain what happened?
Chief Westerman: Collective bargaining.
Councilmember Yukimura: How did it go from 2014, at $55,000 to 2015
$900,000?
Chief Westerman: The collective bargain in 2014 they were allowed
a one-day of rank-for-rank, and then the new collective bargaining agreement, they are
allowed 12.
Councilmember Yukimura: Can you explain rank-to-rank and can you
explain 12 days?
Chief Westerman: A rank-for-rank day is an overtime day. So when
a fire captain is off a fire captain works for him on an overtime day. So it is overtime.
Councilmember Yukimura: So someone told me that sometimes captains get
paid $900 a day is that correct?
Chief Westerman: I do not know an exact salary schedule of each
person but that sounds about right.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay, thank you.
April 7, 2015
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Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Any further questions for operations? I have I
guess it is a big overall question. Looking at your staffing, firefighters, would you say that
you guys are staffed appropriately? Do you need more firefighters?
Chief Westerman: In operations? I think we are staffed
appropriately in operations.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kuali`i follow-up.
Councilmember Kuali`i: One other position the 791 Firefighter I also in
Koloa, vacant but funded. What is the status? Hiring, recruiting? And in the vacancy
report from Human Resources under the column where they normally put whether they are
recruiting or an offer was made they have a note that says No. 720. So how does that relate
to position 720? Position 791 in Koloa $58,000. Status on how it relates to position 720.
Chief Westerman: Well I think what might be confusing for you to
look at what they provided you in the daily staffing and what is in the budget is that that
product you have there is fluid by the day. An example is the position that you thought was
dollar funded by their product is actually I have moved a Firefighter III into that position.
So, there is a dollar funding but it is not in operations it is actually in a bureau.
Councilmember Kuali`i: I made a note of that other position not being
dollar funded, and I can see that there is a $58,000 line item here, so I know this one here is
not a dollar funded, but I am just asking is it still vacant, and if it is, what is the status of
hiring because every month that we do not... or do you expect to hire by July Pt?
Chief Westerman: No. But we are going to move people into that
position from another bureau.
Councilmember Kuali`i: And then another lower position will be open.
Chief Westerman: Right. No. It is a lateral move. The Firefighter
III will be a lateral move from the Prevention Bureau to the Operations Bureau.
Councilmember Kuali`i: I know one thing, when I was looking at all of the
positions and in the vacancy report which also has promotions and transfers, there was a
whole lot of transfers and changing battalion was the description.
Chief Westerman: Right. March Pt was about 20 moves.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Yes.
Chief Westerman: April Pt will be about another 25 moves. And
then in May will be about 3 moves. And what that really means is all that openings that
you are looking at the firemen get to kind of bid for moving to a different station. So we
make those movements for all those folks we did the promotions. That created some
opening so we made those movements at a later time and now in order to comply with safer
April 7, 2015
Fire Department (mn)
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we will need to move people from the Prevention Bureau to Operations to maintain the
staffing levels in operations. That is why I said that list is accurate at the time but it is so
fluid that I could provide you one tomorrow and it is going to be different than what it is
going to in 30 days.
Councilmember Kuali`i: I am just going to use all the information I have
you know it was just two weeks ago. So other people would say that is current.
Chief Westerman: But we are not hiring anybody currently, no.
Councilmember Kuali`i: And the last position was 716 on your budget and
this one is at Hanapepe. So same kind of thing, $76,000 vacancy, you will be moving
somebody into that position?
Chief Westerman: Yes. I think that one already actually been
moved into if I am not mistaken.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Separate item not positions, overtime, in the
budget I see three different line items that look like overtime to me. There is regular
overtime for $687,000. There is something called "rank-for-rank overtime" which was
$905,000 and then in the line item of premium pay there is something called "scheduled
overtime" for $282,000. If you add those three its $2,000,000, and I know that police have
been trying to work on getting their overtime down, so what are you doing to reduce your
overtime expenses?
Chief Westerman: We tried to manage the overtime as best we can.
The scheduled overtime is part of the CBA (Collective Bargaining Agreement) that is part
of their salary there is no adjustment to that it is what it is for four hours of everyday. So
that is the scheduled overtime that is the CBA line item. There is no adjustments to that of
their 24 hour...
Ms. Bettencourt: It is the number of hours that they work in
excess of as far as a certain schedule is concerned before it was called "black shift" and they
were paid overtime for that. Now in collective bargaining it is called "scheduled overtime"
so it is an additional pay that is paid to the individuals because of the number of hours they
worked within a month or pay period. It is just regular hours. It is based on the regular
hours.
Council Chair Rapozo: How many hours per month per employee?
Ms. Bettencourt: It is actually just based on four hours and
multiplied by their rate of pay and it comes out to a set monthly amount for each
individuals and it varies based on their pay and they are paid on a semimonthly basis.
Chief Westerman: Okay and rank-for-rank, again, it is a CBA item
and we do take advantage of that even though they are entitled to that rank-for-rank day,
we kind of use it if we need an overtime that is good for us. That saves us in our other
April 7, 2015
Fire Department (mn)
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overtime monies. So we have reduced some of our overtime monies overtime to do that and
as you can see like Councilmember Yukimura pointed out and times when it was less other
overtimes were more. When it got to be more, we were able to reduce other overtime
monies. The other overtime is overtime that still needs to happen that is not covered by
rank-for-rank and we use overtime on a limited basis for the guys that work on our
committees. The EMS committee the Apparatus Committee, all the committees that are
working diligently through the year to provide additional services for us. Sometimes they
all cannot meet because they are all on different shifts so they all cannot meet on the same
day so a couple of them might be on overtime and three or four of them might be on the
regular shift. Also for shortfalls, when there are shortfalls in staffing.
Councilmember Kuali`i: So the last question for me in this section is there
is several positions that say partial SAFER funded and I think this funding is now in the
last year right?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Fiscal Year so our portion was in the range of
$15,630. So SAFER grants is paying the other $40,000, $50,000 whatever the difference is.
Are we like what is the plan for when the grant runs out? Do we lose these positions? Do
we come back to the general fund? This is like five or six positions?
Chief Westerman: Six positions.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Six positions.
Chief Westerman: Yes. The intent is to absorb them into the
department.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Absorb them into the department. And the
SAFER we are already maxed out on that. You said we had gotten awarded all we are
entitled to be.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Okay thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: I have a follow-up on overtime. I am just trying
to get a better handle on it. For regular overtime holiday pay is $609,000 that is automatic,
right.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: And we have overtime pay of $72,000 that would
be overtime if say you are fighting a fire and people need to stay on longer.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
April 7, 2015
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Committee Chair Kaneshiro: So that is really your actual overtime number
right. Your contingency for overtime.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: And everything else is collective bargaining?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: When did the Kaiakea Fire Station open up?
Chief Westerman: February of 2012, I think.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
Chief Westerman: Do not quote me on that, but I think that is when
it was.
Councilmember Yukimura: And it is a leed building right?
Chief Westerman: Yes. Silver, I believe.
Councilmember Yukimura: And have you gotten a report on its performance
as a leed building in terms of electricity, water, you know all those things that supposed to
be more sustainable?
Chief Westerman: Yes, you are going to have to ask Mr. Sullivan
that question. They monitor that over at OED (Office of Economic Development).
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. I am just looking at electricity, oil, and
gas, what we do with all departments. Is that a question we are supposed to ask Mr.
Sullivan as well?
Chief Westerman: Those are not Mr. Sullivan's area. Oil and gas is
for our engines and our trucks and electricity actually we have saved a little bit there. I
think I have to find what line item we are talking about here. If I remember right we were
$36,000 savings over electricity last year. So we are trying.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: In operations looks like you kept the budget the
same for electricity at $177.
Chief Westerman: Right. I think last year we did turn back $36,000
but you never know what that is going to be with the price of oil going up and down
April 7, 2015
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whether or not they going to charge us more. We are trying to save the kilowatt hours but
we never know what the cost of kilowatt hours is going to be.
Councilmember Yukimura: That is correct. Okay thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Any further questions for operations? Okay we
will move on to Prevention.
Chief Westerman: As you can see in the report some of those things
were up on the board earlier like the amount of people that we contacted in the public and
again I would like to express my thanks to the American Red Cross and our CERT Teams
members all the other organizations that we work with because when we go out on the field
we try to take advantage of as much help as we can get so to speak and provide venues for
our partners wo attend with us and put forward their educational material. The
inspections and preventions in the company plans we had 312 plans and inspections, plans
reviewed, 711. Fire Inspector I Certification and that was with who Daryl?
Mr. Date: As far as the Fire Inspection Certification
Inspector Kilipaki Vaughn got certified last year as a Fire Inspector.
Chief Westerman: Why do you not talk about the initial HGEA
(Hawai`i Government Employees Association) meeting we had with the building officials.
Mr. Date: Every year for the past 5 or 6 years right before
the summer season we have been having a meeting with all the major landowners and
different agencies throughout the State and County regarding possible brush fire
mitigations measures that may be taken. I also bring in a meteorologist from NOAA
(National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration) to give a forecast for what the weather
is going to be like.
Chief Westerman: It is both an operations and a prevention thing.
The operation guys just get out there and fight fires and so prevention works alongside
them and tries to find ways that we can help prevent, mitigate, slow down, support the
community in doing hazard mitigation on their properties by cutting back fallow fields that
kind of stuff. We bring all the major landowners together and politely beat them over the
head and remind them of their responsibility, give them coffee and donuts, and talk to them
about how they can support us and how we can support them to reduce brush fires.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Questions from the members? Councilmember
Hooser.
Councilmember Hooser: A brief follow-up. We talked about charging
people for helicopter use. If landowners are negligent in maintaining their properties for
fire hazards to maybe not maintain the brush or otherwise are there provisions for charging
landowners?
•
April 7, 2015
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Mr. Date: The process that we go through, if we get a
complaint or if we notice a fire hazard does exist, we go and do an investigation and if it is
warranted hazard we write the landowner a notice of violation and there is a notice of
violation procedure that we follow. Currently, we have not had any problems with the
landowner complying with the fire code, but if they do not, we have what we call a "fire
chiefs orders" where it is like the final notice. We hand over all the paperwork to the
attorneys and what happens is a contractor does the work and the bill is put on a lien on
the property owner.
Councilmember Hooser: Okay in terms of brush like it is really dry and
you see these large tracts of land sometimes and I think well if they would just cut it once
in a while that would help a lot and I am assuming or do you folks ask the landowners to do
that or put in fire breaks and that kinds of things?
Mr. Date: Yes, and that one of the major discussions that
we have in our annual brush fire mitigation meetings with the landowners and especially
the distance from brush to structures. That is a major concern for us.
Councilmember Hooser: And are the landowners generally speaking
cooperative and help with that?
Mr. Date: Yes. They need a reminder here and there but
they are pretty much cooperative.
Councilmember Hooser: Okay.
Chief Westerman: To kind of expand on that we did the community
wildlife protection plan about four years ago. The Council funded that. Now, we have the
Hawai`i Wildlife Organization out on the Big Island is right now on island doing one and a
couple of Councilmembers have attended their public meetings to update that, and with
that, they can apply for grants to do things to help support the reductions of brush fires. In
fact, Grove Farm did apply for one, got a shredder, and they have their leaseholders use
that shredder. I think it is called a shredder. It cuts the grass, a mower, to cut areas that
need to be cut. So it kind of reduced the cost for the landowner and they can apply for all
different kinds of things. Right now, we are going through an update of that. Some
members that attend that meeting we will explain to them that that grant will be available
again for anybody that wants to do hazard mitigation on their property.
Councilmember Hooser: Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kuali`i
Councilmember Kuali`i: I share the same concern as Councilmember
Hooser and I did attend a couple of those meetings. I am glad that that happened and that
so many of the firefighters were in attendance. I do know that vegetation management
from all the discussions is probably one of the most important things that we all can do
around our homes. And as landowners we recently had some really big brush fires and I
April 7, 2015
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guess some of them if it is away from the homes they just burn out more than anything.
But I did talk to the folks from that wildlife management non-profit too about possible
legislation but I know as far as the violation and you know right now it is just so a small
thing but if we do not necessarily get people moving in the right direction it might need to
be more than just paying back the contractor who cleaned it. To get them to take that
responsibility but we will see. I think I will work with the Chair and the fire department.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: I really commend you for a very proactive action
to have this meeting of landowners and educating them and also informing them of the
enforcement framework. That is really good. You said we had 64 brush fires since
December of last year. So how much progress have we made in determining causes of
brush fires?
Mr. Date: To determine the cause of a brush fire is pretty
difficult. We need to actually find the ignition source within the burned area. Witnesses
help a great deal as far as finding out who is doing it?
Councilmember Yukimura: So of the 63 brush fires, how many do we
know...we have incident reports on all of them, I presume.
Mr. Date: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: And how many of them do we know what the
source was?
Mr. Date: Just a few.
Councilmember Yukimura: Like 4 or 5?
Mr. Date: Around there, yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: In those cases was there any deliberate action
involved.
Chief Westerman: Councilmember Yukimura, I would like not to
get into that discussion because it is under investigation by the Kauai Police Department.
To let you know we have been actively working with KPD and they have initiated a task
force to help us try and find get to the answers we are looking for.
Councilmember Yukimura: So there is a task force that has been formed?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay and it is a KPD and Fire Department task
force?
April 7, 2015
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Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: That will at some point issue a report.
Chief Westerman: Hopefully we will have some success. Like
Captain Date said actual wild land fires are the absolute toughest to prove. It is just so
tough. As Captain Date said finding the ignition source then even when you find the
ignition source it trying to find who created the ignition. Eye witnesses always help but it
really is tough.
Councilmember Yukimura: So can you give us the cost of these fires? All
cost over all?Annual cost maybe?
Chief Westerman: I would have to think about how I can provide
that because for me one of the issues of cost is no cost. It is our budget. We are paid to
fight fires every day.
Councilmember Yukimura: Oh, no there is a cost.
Chief Westerman: I understand that, but we are paid to fight fires
everyday, so that is the cost. Now, maybe some additional cost might be like you were
discussing. Wear and tear on the helicopter, gas for the helicopter, fuel for the trucks, I do
not understand what additional cost you would need.
Councilmember Yukimura: In the construction industry they do job costing.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: So whatever the total cost for the year of fuel, so
forth, they break it down into job cost, and there is an overhead line. I am thinking that we
may not do it as precisely as a contractor but some kind of measurement so we know what
these...I mean that is part of our work to know what parts of our job cost.
Chief Westerman: And I understand that and I mean I can get you
the cost of every labor hour and every and every gallon of fuel we used but my dilemma is I
cannot get that to you in 20, 30, 40 days. I do not have the staff. It would take detailed
records. I do not keep the records that way. Does that make sense? I do not keep data that
way so I would have to go and find how I can grab the data to give you that information.
Give me about 60 days to think about a way to maybe provide something to you.
Councilmember Yukimura: zif we do not think that information is valuable
then we can forget it. But I am thinking for budget purposes, we should know how much
each helicopter average helicopter rescue cost.
Chief Westerman: It is $450 an hour plus gas. That is what the
manufacturer say is the wear and tear on the helicopter is.
April 7, 2015
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Councilmember Yukimura: Oh, no, but I am talking about you are the time
of your personnel and everything too. That is on taxpayer's cost.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: So if I am the only one who think it is important
we do not have to do it. I have a suspicion, and I will check and I will check with governing
magazine, but more and more government entities are doing these kind of costing so they
know much better how to manage their resources and how to budget for it. I will leave it at
that.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Maybe it can be you provide them with a specific
example or specific fire and they just try to do it on that rather than the overall fires and
you may be able to get comfortable just in a discussion with the Chief.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you, good idea.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kuali`i
Councilmember Kuali`i: I would just add that I think it is important also
because looking back at the helicopter pilot contract line item is $378,000, and the
helicopter maintenance contract is a $100,000, so for half a million dollars I would like to
know you know what we are servicing and who we are servicing and how many. So to
justify that big expense. My question here is on positions. There is only four positions
listed but the first two is Fire Captain 640 and Fire Prevention Inspector II 626. Fire
Prevention II, 626, SR 23 was vacant as of March 23 March 24 but in the status column HR
left it blank so is it currently being recruited? Was somebody offered the job? What is the
status? And the other thing about that is HR's table they listed the current annual salary
as $82,000 but in your budget you list it as $93,264 which what strikes me as odd is that it
is SR 23 $93,264 but the Fire Captain position above is SR 25 and has the same salary of
$93,264. So what is it the Fire Prevention Inspector II, or we hiring somebody new at the
top level? Why is there $11,000 difference?
Chief Westerman: I will let Rose talk to you about the cost thing but
that position has been open and we have been TAing Fire Inspectors into that positions.
Councilmember Kuali`i: So it remains open and is covered by TA.
Chief Westerman: Yes and if I can give you an overarching of all the
positions in the Fire Department. The Operations Bureau has to maintain 136 firefighters
because of SAFER until April of 16, so we have had to move people out of the bureaus and
into the operations to maintain that staffing level without having a recruit class. As we
have explained in the class a recruit class of one or two is not economical. It cost us
$35,000, $40,000 to do a recruit class. It was about $25,000 in the past but now that we are
doing the EMT and we are doing more certification process in the class it cost more. So the
economics is you need four or five people in a recruit class to really make it economical and
April 7, 2015
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we can survive without those positions for a limited amount of time especially at the
firefighter level. Our dilemma is the openings cannot be at the firefighter level right now
because of the safer grant. So the position that you are looking at and Rose can explain the
costing in a minute is being filled by TA. And why the salaries are the same I am assuming
that was his salary at that time.
Ms. Bettencourt: The individual salaries are based on their years
of service. They get pay increases based on years of service and that is why you may have
two people on maybe a higher rank and another individual in lower rank but still making
the same amount or maybe the lower rank making more. And as far as personnel their
listing. I am not sure how they have their...
Chief Westerman: Might be the lowest pay scale for that. Might be
the lower end of the pay scale.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Thank you. That explains it.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Any further questions for prevention? We will
take a 10 minute caption break.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 10:58 a.m.
The meeting was called back to order at 11:03 a.m. and proceeded as follows:
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: BC are you ready? Okay welcome back. We just
finished up prevention and we are going to move on to training. Chief Westerman.
Chief Westerman: As you can see some of the highlights that we
talked about in the Training Bureau 25th recruit class. They began working on the path in
our goals to The Firefighter I and Firefighter II Pro Board certification. We are waiting on
an audit and hopefully we will have that completed fairly quick. It is actually being done at
the State level so we are kind of at their mercy, I guess. Beginning of February they
started the EMT class and swift-water training for the year and Firefighter I and II and
that is part of the again talking about the requirements that we have to have the
instructors certified in order to have them to certify our folks. Any other questions you
would have about the Training Bureau we would be happy to ask...answer.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Any questions about training?
Councilmember Yukimura: What did you just say when you just said it was
being done at the State level?
Chief Westerman: The Pro Board is actually the Pro Board for the
State is actually managed by the state airport Fire Chief Martinez Jacobs. Every state has
one pro board so and he is the one that has been assigned by the State of Hawaii.
Councilmember Yukimura: And who cause the creation of the Pro Board?
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Chief Westerman: That was through that organization many many
years ago.
Councilmember Yukimura: What organization?
Chief Westerman: The professional...
Councilmember Yukimura: Firefighters?
Chief Westerman: What is the name of that? The whole total name
of that? I have to get you the name but the Pro Board organization, itself.
Councilmember Yukimura: And so the mission or goal of this Pro Board is to
get all firefighters certified at certain standards?
Chief Westerman: Well, it is to establish the standard at which
everyone should be certified using the National Fire Protection Association standard set by
the NFPA.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. And what we are doing is...do we have an
explicit objective in terms of how many firefighters we going to train by when and what
that means? I mean that means that we are going to have a higher capacity of firefighters?
MICHAEL SCOVEL, Training Bureau Captain: Well we needed to start somewhere
so we started with this recruit class here and eventually through attrition we would get
everybody certified. All we do is verify that we know what we know. The third party that
says we follow this curriculum which is national recognized and that we completed all the
curriculum and skill sheets and so forth.
Councilmember Yukimura: And is it a rigorous training.
Mr. Scovel: Yes, pretty much. You need to study and pass all
your test and skill test which is done with a proctor not by the instructors.
Councilmember Yukimura: So I hear now what your paradigm is. It is to
incorporate it into your recruit training so that it just becomes a regular part of your basic
training and in that way you will have all firefighters certified.
Mr. Scovel: Firefighter I&II.
Councilmember Yukimura: And this recent recruit class was the first one to
get the full training?
Mr. Scovel: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: So now it is just a matter of continuing it with
every recruit class.
April 7, 2015
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Mr. Scovel: We have 12 Fire Instructor Is and Fire Instructor
Its that have not received their certificates yet. That was the start of the process because
you have to be a certified instructor to teach the classes and be the subject matter expert.
So once those certificates are given then we can move forward with that.
Councilmember Yukimura: So you have plans to train other than just your
recruit class?
Mr. Scovel: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: So you going to also work on peoples who are
already in the department?
Mr. Scovel: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. That sounds excellent. Thank you. And
the cost of this? Because you are having the trainers...you are having in house trainers
that is your goal...
Mr. Scovel: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: So then that is mainly overtime is the cost...
Mr. Scovel: For the instructors, yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: For the instructors...
Mr. Scovel: Which are our instructors that train the trainers.
Councilmember Yukimura: So they go from station to station and train that
way or is it overtime also for trainees?
Mr. Scovel: It is overtime training for the recruits. They
come on their days of and...
Councilmember Yukimura: And there is no thought to train while they are at
the station and when they are already on payroll?
Chief Westerman: When they do a particular class, they put the
firefighters on a 40-hour workweek, and they come into the training center, and get the
training. They are not on the overtime schedule. They are on a modified schedule, but not
an overtime schedule. The instructors will need to come in, because they need to teach the
class. So, depending on which group it is and which class it is, usually the overtime
incurred is only with the instructors.
Councilmember Yukimura: Not the trainees?
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Chief Westerman: Not?
Councilmember Yukimura: Not the trainees?
Chief Westerman: No, not the trainees. No.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay, unless the instructors are being trained as
instructors?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Yes, the instructor being trained as a
trainee, yes. Alright. Thank you.
Chief Westerman: Unless it is the instructor being trained as a
trainee, yes.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: I have a follow-up question on the overtime.
There is an overtime line item that is just for instructors? It is not for one individual that is
doing all of this overtime?
Chief Westerman: Right, that is for all the instructors.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: It is a blanket for all instructors who have to
take off to do certain trainings?
Chief Westerman: Right.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Okay. Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Earlier we saw that there was a dollar-funded
Firefighter I from Hanalei, and a dollar-funded Firefighter I from Kapa`a. This dollar-
funded Firefighter III, which location is that?
Chief Westerman: This dollar-funded Firefighter III went to a
different bureau. He went to the Prevention Bureau.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Where is the position located?
Chief Westerman: Downstairs versus upstairs.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Oh, in the Administration building?
Chief Westerman: Yes, right in the Administration area.
Councilmember Kuali`i: That is Position 720?
April 7, 2015
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Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Okay. Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Any further questions for training? I have
another question on the training. Would it be more cost-effective to hire someone to do the
training rather than have a firefighter do the training and get overtime?
Chief Westerman: I will be honest with you, I never looked into it. I
do not know if it would be. I do not know of anybody providing the service.
Mr. Scovel: It could be cheaper to pay our instructors
overtime than fly somebody here and pay him for his services. We can train numerous
amounts of people with our trainers rather than having one and teach only 20 firefighters.
Our trainers could train the whole Department, if you look at it that way.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Okay. Any further questions for training? No?
Okay. We will move on to Water Safety.
Chief Westerman: In Ocean Safety, again, a review of the
highlights. State Champions 11 years in a row and the Kaua`i Junior Lifeguard winning 45
medals at the National Championships. Great kudos for the bureau and for Kalani and all
of the men and women that worked the junior lifeguard program. It takes a lot of concerted
effort on their part to get through that. I do not envy them when they do travel, traveling
with all of these teenagers, I am sure all the sports teams out there go through the same. I
have been on planes with a plane full of those kids traveling and it is tough. When then
they get there, they do a good job and they represent Kaua`i and Hawaii very well. They
have expanded the Junior Keiki Program to 4 locations. They assisted a junior lifeguard
student with her program called "Splash." Then she donated her proceedings back to the
junior lifeguard program. Again, existing on-call positions were reallocated to do the
restructuring. We worked with Hawai`i Government Employees' Association (HGEA) on
the bargaining unit and as you know, that is still in negotiations. A couple of travel and
then some of the statistics for the Ocean Safety Bureau. We will be open to any questions
that you have for the Ocean Safety Bureau.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Any questions from the members for Water
Safety? Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. First of all, congratulations for the really
outstanding program for junior lifeguards and younger now. It is really one of our sources
of pride and joy. I know it takes a lot of work and commitment. On the issue of water
safety and drownings, which I know we are all distressed what has happened over the last
few months, have we done a statistical analysis how many drownings are at sites without
lifeguards? Is there a distinct correlation?
Chief Westerman: We have that data. We can get you.
April 7, 2015
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Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. Do you have a sense offhand, Kalani?
D. KALANI VIERRA, Water Safety Supervising Officer: Kalani Vieira,
Ocean Safety Bureau. Not offhand, but we have charts available at our office.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. I would be interested in seeing if there is
any data that gives us any ideas how to better address it. I mean, I am aware that as I
think you mentioned earlier this morning, Chief, the jet ski serves to go to places quickly
where we do not have lifeguards. I am glad for that option and technology.
Mr. Vierra: Just the top of my head, the incidents are kind of
scattered all over the place.
Councilmember Yukimura: Both at lifeguard sites?
Mr. Vierra: Yes, it is kind scattered all over the island.
Chief Westerman: But I do not recall too many lifeguards at
lifeguard beaches with lifeguards on beach.
Mr. Vierra: Yes.
Chief Westerman: Very, very few. But we can get you that data.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Is there any data or feedback on how our
video at the airport is working or not?
Mr. Vierra: That is a good question. I know we had
discussion at our last Kealia meeting on some kind of a survey to see how the video
working. But Dr. Downs has a couple of people that came up to him that visited the
emergency room and came up to him and said, "The reason why we performed the rescue
using the rescue tube because we watched the video." So, that is one hands-on discussion,
but I am sure we should have more.
Councilmember Yukimura: Anecdotal.
Mr. Vierra: When I go to the airport, myself, I kind of stand
in the back and watch who is watching the video. I can see there is a few, but I wish more
people would watch it. There should be some kind of survey, for sure.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. That would be helpful. I have done that,
too, whenever I am at baggage claim watching how many people watch and not a whole lot
are watching. Some of them are people like us who are local and tend to know more. I am
going back to the idea that a captive audience in the plane might be a better place to really
have this education happen at. During the break, Battalion Chief Hosaka and I were
talking about the hikers going in and I even said that they are not qualified to be called
April 7, 2015
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"hikers" because they do not know anything about hiking. He talked about an incident
where they had to go in because this big strong person had only a small bit of water into the
trail and that is pure ignorance. This whole education factor, which is what the video was
trying to do with respect to water safety.
Mr. Vierra: We have been trying to do that for many years of
trying to get video in the airport.
Councilmember Yukimura: I know.
Mr. Vierra: That is the closest way we could get the video,
would be at the baggage claim areas. But if you folks have any ideas on how we can crack
that nut, we are all open to ideas, for sure.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. I just read in Office of Hawaiian Affair's
(OHA's) newspaper that they are working on a television video to teach about culture
in-flight and I am thinking maybe we should tag on some water safety.
Chief Westerman: The Garden Island did an article two months ago
or a month ago about a 16 year old that watched the video in the airport and rescued his
father. He credited the fact that he watched that video. He said, "I do not even know why I
watched it, but I watched it two or three times. So obviously it took a while to get their
baggage out. But I watched it 2 or 3 times." So, obviously it took a while to get their
baggage out. But it does help. Like Kalan and I know, everybody that is in our business,
when we come through there, we kind of stop and watch. But it is just one of the tools in
the toolbox, to use a bad analogy, but what we use to reduce the drowning statistics.
Councilmember Yukimura: Your example shows the power of education.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: So, if we can find ways to do it more effectively,
then it will extend the reach.
Chief Westerman: We have considered redoing these bookmark
because it provides something useful, especially folks that traveling. A lot of them still do
the old paperback books. It does not good on the iPad, but again, any type of education that
we can provide.
Mr. Vierra: Just FYI, tomorrow we will be here for approval.
The Kauai Lifeguard Association (KLA) bought us a prevention education trailer and we
are going to be using the trailer similar to Fire of using the trailer to go to the schools and
Farm Bureau Fairs or wherever we can to use that trailer for education purposes.
Councilmember Yukimura: That is excellent, and if you can tie it in with the
fires, that might be better than having to do one group twice.
April 7, 2015
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Mr. Vierra: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: I also want to commend you for the training of
supervisors that you mentioned earlier. That sounds like a real capacity-building, also
personnel problem prevention. So kudos to you both for that. Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i: I have a quick somewhat general question about
positions and maybe you can follow-up with an answer that kind of maybe puts it all in a
chart. I would like to see a breakdown of what your staffing needs are and how you are
assigning the different positions to the different locations. I know we have many locations
like maybe nearly 9? Yes, 9. But there is lifeguard position, and I only see four of them
throughout two, on-call lifeguard positions, and the rest are all Water Safety Officer
(WSO) I, II, III, IV and V. I am curious as to what is the entry-level position? It lifeguards?
I see that it is $32,000, the salary range, and the Water Safety Officer 1 is $36,000, the
salary range. Then it goes all the way up to V, which is $68,000 salary range. I am curious
as to how many we need of each, how they get assigned to each of the locations, and what
the difference is between Lifeguard and Water Safety Officer I? You can say a little now,
but we can follow-up.
Mr. Vierra: The lifeguard is an entry-level position. So that
is how we hire all of our personnel is through lifeguarding. Water Safety Officer I, we used
to start recruiting with Water Safety Officer I before, but that requires a bunch of
certifications that a lot of the people do not have. So, we did not have big turnouts for
recruitments. So, we eliminated all of the certifications. That is the only way we can hire
lifeguards is without certifications. We have been having pretty good turnouts, but a lot of
people coming in for recruitment is not passing the agility requirements. If you get hired as
a lifeguard, which is the entry-level, if you work for a year, then you can be promoted to
WSO I, and then a year after WSO I, you can be promoted to the WSO II. The WSO III will
be in the Lieutenant or Supervisor level. WSO IV, as you know, is our new positions that
we created. It is like the District Captain and WSO V would be my position.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Like the Battalion Chief if you were a battalion?
Mr. Vierra: I guess so, yes. I am an Operations Supervisor,
yes.
Councilmember Kuali`i: That is 15?
Mr. Vierra: Yes.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Okay. Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura.
April 7, 2015
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Councilmember Yukimura: I am curious about the certification process and
the agility. Did you just describe a way to get around the agility test?
Mr. Vierra: No, around the certification.
Councilmember Yukimura: Oh. So, they still have to pass an agility test?
Mr. Vierra: Yes. In previous years, we used to go out and
recruit for Water Safety Officer I and if you have not worked for us in the past or if you
have not worked for a lifeguard in any type of organization, you would not have the proper
certification. So, if you wanted to apply, you would have to go out and get your certification
that might cost you up to $500, which a lot of people do not have the money to pay. So, we
figure we eliminate the certifications and just hire at the lifeguard level so you will not
need certifications. All you need is the driver's license or the basic requirements, and then
if you get hired, we will send you through the training and get paid for sending you to the
proper training.
Councilmember Yukimura: So, we are paying for the education essentially.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: I mean, whether you are lawyers or engineers or
physical therapists or whatever, you have to figure out how to get your degrees or your
certifications before you apply for certain jobs.
Mr. Vierra: We had really low turnouts in recruitment, really
low.
Councilmember Yukimura: All you have to do is raise the pay.
Mr. Vierra: Well, that would be good.
Councilmember Yukimura: I know that is another issue, but we have done it
in other areas and then you have a lot of people applying for it. KCC is not an easy route to
get a certification?
Mr. Vierra: You probably could. There is the American Red
Cross and the American Heart Association. You could get your proper certifications
through them or even KCC.
Councilmember Yukimura: Actually, what you are describing is the lack of
motivation to jump through these ropes, which is kind of important for even screening
people, I think, and then also the pay, which might also be partly responsible for the lack of
motivation.
Mr. Vierra: With the pay, just to let you know, in last four
months we had maybe five people resign because they got employment elsewhere because of
April 7, 2015
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better pay. That is another challenge. We are working on keeping our people with our
Department.
Councilmember Yukimura: I mean, I will tell you, that is what I mean. If
you raise the pay, you will find people figuring out how to get the certifications. Do you
know what I mean, because there is an end goal that is worthwhile.
Chief Westerman: Part of the problem they have to be readily
available too. All of their classes are not readily available, even from KCC, routinely. It
just became easier for us to go through the hiring process and provide first-responder
certification is the other one that is required. It is provided by KCC, but it is not always
readily available. Again, it is a matter of supply and demand. If there is not a lot of people
demanding it, they are not going to provide the class.
Councilmember Yukimura: Right. How many Water Safety Officer Positions
does the County have?
Mr. Vierra: We probably have 55 positions.
Councilmember Yukimura: 55 positions?
Mr. Vierra: I think so.
Councilmember Yukimura: That is a lot of jobs. It should be enough for KCC
to actually develop a program for certification.
Mr. Vierra: Well, for the first-responders, not only the
lifeguards, the firefighters and police also have first-responder certification.
Chief Westerman: But we train them all in-house. It is not a
prerequisite to employment.
Councilmember Yukimura: I am just trying to understand how you get the
best possible people to apply and whether by increasing the salary to something that, if that
is the problem, you might be able to solve rest of it by just doing that.
Mr. Vierra: We tried the Water Safety Officer method, we
tried the written test method, and the two low turnouts. So, we eliminated those and had
just an agility test. We had more turnout by that way then the rest.
Councilmember Yukimura: With the agility test?
Mr. Vierra: As far as the pay, I wish I could give them more
pay, maybe you folks can help us with that.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you for at least helping us better
understand the problem and the issues.
April 7, 2015
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Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i: As far as the vacancies go, it does look like and
you can give me an update if this is two weeks old, that there are four lifeguard position
that are vacant and being recruited. The status they all have is recruiting, and four Water
Safety Officer II positions that are being recruited. So you only have about six or seven in
this budget, positions for lifeguard. But there is probably 30 or so for Water Safety Officer
II. I think as far as occupied positions, the majority of them are probably Water Safety
Officer II. That is what it looks like in Po`ipu, Lydgate, Kealia, and Anahola, in the bulk of
the locations. I would think it is a pay issue becuase a Water Safety Officer II having the
ability to make upwards of $46,000 is why so many of those positions are Water Safety
Officer II and they have remained for two years or more, right?
Mr. Vierra: Yes. So, it takes almost two years to get to
Water Safety Officer II.
Councilmember Kuali`i: The overwhelming major of our Water Safety
Officer looks to be Water Safety Officer II.
Mr. Vierra: Correct.
Councilmember Kuali`i: They are making whatever, $39,000 or $46,000.
I do not want to say that pay is the issue. I would guess that it is a lifestyle choice. If you
are a water person, I grew up loving the water, but I have ear infections. A lifeguard would
never be my career choice. For many people, it is not worth the angle they are going to go
and maybe some people are taking it as a job while they are young, something to do, good
pay. Then they see something else like construction or accounting or whatever, and it is
even better pay. So then they move on.
Mr. Vierra: That is what is happening.
Councilmember Kuali`i: So maybe it is career transition, too. Let us not
get ahead of ourselves and saying that we need to pay more. Let us just do a real careful
analysis and let us continue what we are doing because I think it is successful if we have all
of these Water Safety Officer Its that are more than not remaining with us. Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Any further questions on water safety?
Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: Chief, I just have a follow-up question here. In
looking at the grants presentation that you have. Is there no plan for any grant-writing to
occur in 2016? I cannot identify the grant. I see where it talks about the ongoing grants
and previous and then in 2015. I also read that you are kind moving in that direction of
manpower towards it not being there and so forth. I just wanted to get a better sense of
what the plan is.
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Chief Westerman: We will continue to write for grants in 2016. We
are not going write for Staffing for Adequate Fire and Emergency Response (SAFER) in
2016. We will be writing for the Assistance to Firefighters Grants (AFG) grants for fire
prevention and we are also going to be writing one for...my grant person is going to kill me
not having him here to answer that question.
Councilmember Chock: Maybe we are having a hard time reading it. I
see the SAFER grant and the Volunteer Fire Assistance (VFA).
Chief Westerman: The VFA is really not an application. It comes to
us every year as a pass through from the State. It just comes from a different amount that
we would have to determine with the State how we can apply it. We are going to apply for
the AFG, two different times AFG. We are not going to be applying for AFG SAFER. We
just applied again for the State DOT Highways grant. Then we have the Homeland
Security grant, which again is and is not an application process. It is managed by State
Civil Defense and it runs through our County Civil Defense. Then we work with Police and
Civil Defense to determine how those moneys are going to be spent. That is kind of what
our direction is for the next year for grants for Fire.
Councilmember Chock: One last question, there were some questions
that came up in the initial budget presentation about the helicopter pad and the lease with
the DOT. Can you shed a little more light?
Chief Westerman: Sure, I would be happy to. Actually, I am
meeting with Mr. Neves this afternoon. We were kind of set to have everything done. The
administration has this in CIP, we talked about a little more increase in that money, and
they gladly supported that. We had our lease with the airport and we discovered that we
were in the prevailing winds. That is not a good thing. We are asking to go to the other
side of the tarmac, which puts our opening door...what do they call that? A lee. So, it is not
in the prevailing wind because we did not want the helicopter exposed to the salt blowing
every day. They do not have a problem with that. It is just that we almost had to start the
process over. So, they are kind of in agreement with the lot that we have selected. They
have a little bit of question about we were also going to put our burn trailer there and on
the next parking areas over on the next side of that tarmac behind us, they are going to put
in a fueling station. So they have concerns about us having a burn trailer there. We are
going over there today to work that out. Our hope is that within 30 to 60 days we will have
a new lease signed and Public Works is just sitting there waiting. They are beating me up
all time. Come on, Chief, we need to move. The Administration is let us do it. It is really
negotiating with the State, the right lot at the airport.
Councilmember Chock: I think when reading it, one of the concerns was
about the lease terms because we are investing a lot of infrastructure and money into the
proposed site with the pad and the structure.
Chief Westerman: Right.
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Councilmember Chock: So, that the terms would be feasible. We would
then own the structure and the pad, but then if things do not work out with the DOT, what
is the recourse?
Chief Westerman: I am sure the Director of Finance and County
Attorneys will make sure...it is really beyond my scope and I would hope that they would
challenge the State to make sure that we got a good lease agreement and make that
happen.
Councilmember Chock: Currently, our helicopters are staged where? Are
they in the open?
Chief Westerman: No. Currently, it is in one of the real old
hangars, they call them (inaudible) hangars that has been there about 25 years that State
owns. They have been renting us that space so we can get out of the salt air. We were only
on what they call "spot." So, we worked with them to allow us to move into that hangar.
Again, it was supposed to be temporary, but it is gone a little more than temporary and
they are anxious too, to get their hangar back.
Councilmember Chock: Okay. Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Follow-up question. Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i: My question is a broader one, again, on the
positions and step levels versus new job titles. How do you get from one level to the next?
You had mentioned that you hired lifeguard and in a year they go to Water Safety Officer I,
and then in another year they go to Water Safety Officer II. So, they are moving and
getting promoted to another position. But within the position, is there not any levels for
increase? I noticed this SR series is 13, 15, 17, 19, 21, and 26. Is it meant for that to be
each year and besides just time passing, I would imagine you would have to have acquired
additional skill and training, additional certifications, and evaluation. Explain to me
basically how that goes.
Mr. Vierra: It is not automatic. You would have to pass a
yearly job performance evaluation. There are other certifications that are required like
your first-responder training, and it is not automatic. But minimum if you work a year,
then you go up for evaluation. If you do not pass the proper evaluation to next level, you
will be put on another probation.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Are those existing levels? There are no other
levels in between?
Mr. Vierra: No.
Councilmember Kuali`i: I know in some job descriptions you have levels
at that one job.
April 7, 2015
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Mr. Vierra: No.
Councilmember Kuali`i: These are basically all lifeguards, lifeguards at
the first level all the way up to the lifeguard to the 6th level?
Mr. Vierra: Yes.
Councilmember Kuali`i: The only step increase or raise happens between
from 13 to 15 and 15 to 17. It is a double step in a way, but it is happening each year?
Mr. Vierra: Also, another note is if there is a jet ski operator
premium pay also that some of the Water Safety Officer II who applied for the training,
they get that extra pay.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Okay. Thank you.
Ms. Bettencourt: I just wanted to clarify for the lifeguard, it was a
difficult position to fill. We worked with Human Resources to try to offer incentives to hire.
But people just were not applying. So what happened was like Kalani said, what we did
was we did away with requiring the certifications at the time of application and we allowed
them to just meet the minimum level of high school graduation and be able to apply, and
then again, pass the agility. So like the firefighter trainees, the lifeguards come in with
nothing. They have no certifications. In their probationary period, they have to learn the
skills and acquire the certificates as part of the requirement of passing their probation.
Once they get all of the required certificates for lifeguard, for example, when the lifeguard
acquires all of their certificates, at that point, it can be within the six month probation.
Once they acquire all of those certificates, they can be moved up to a Water Safety Officer I.
So, depending on whether they feel the person is also qualified in performing the job, not
just in getting the certificates, the person can go up a level. Then going from WSO I to a II
is a minimum one year as a WSO I. Then once they get once they get to the WSO II, yes,
that is the highest they go unless they get promoted to Supervisor position. In between
that, like we said with collective bargaining pay increases, people get different levels of pay.
But, yes, for some reason it is was very difficult to recruit Ocean Safety and Kalani is trying
to figure out ways to get people more interested in that job.
Councilmember Kuali`i: I would be interested in knowing what other
ways Human Resources might be able to help with the recruiting. I think as far as an
entry-level position that is paying $32,000 that has the potential within a year to go up to
$36,000 and within another year to go up to $40,000, there is probably a lot of young people,
maybe water people as well that they are looking for a career path, this is actually a pretty
good career path with a represented position with good benefits. I cannot imagine. That
$32,000 is equal to $15.38. There is a lot of young people out there working for a lot less, so
come on.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Hooser.
April 7, 2015
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Councilmember Hooser: I am going back up again. The helicopter, Chief
you mentioned the State leases us hangar space. How much is that?
Chief Westerman: We are renting right now.
Councilmember Hooser: How much? Round numbers. Is it a few
hundred dollars or a few thousand dollars?
Chief Westerman: Yes. It is a couple hundred dollars. It is really
cheap.
Councilmember Yukimura: A month?
Councilmember Hooser: A month?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Hooser: Okay. Does the Fire Department or Ocean
Safety charge the State for protecting State beach parks or rescuing people from State
parks?
Chief Westerman: No.
Councilmember Hooser: Does the State provide any support whatsoever
for the County protecting people or putting these services in?
Chief Westerman: Well, we have a contract. Why do not you talk
about the contract?
Mr. Vierra: We have a contract with the State for Ke`e Beach
lifeguard operations. So, they fund our 4 positions and equipment down at Ke`e Beach.
Councilmember Hooser: Okay. Is that reflected in the budget?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Hooser: You do not have to point it out to you, but it is in
there. Is that year-to-year?
Chief Westerman: Biennial, every two years.
Councilmember Hooser: Okay. We have to put in a request to the
legislature to get that every so often?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Hooser: Okay.
April 7, 2015
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Chief Westerman: Well, we talk to the Director of Parks and tell
them we still want, and he says, "Okay." Then he pushes it through the legislature and
occasionally we go and talk to the different State legislators and remind them that we want
to continue that service.
Councilmember Hooser: Okay. Thank you.
Councilmember Yukimura: Follow-up.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Regarding helicopter rescues and some on foot
rescues in Na Pali or Waimea Canyon or State wilderness areas, I would like to know when
you provide us with statistics on the rescues, I guess helicopter or other; how many of them
were on State lands because it occurred to me as we were discussing it earlier that in fact,
that they are State permitees or State violators of permits that we are taking care of. The
County is. Conceivably, the State could buy their helicopter and do rescues on their
properties like National parks and so forth? So more than ever, we are justified to get TAT
moneys, Transient Accommodation Tax moneys but even arguably State reimbursement for
those costs unless the individual people will pay for it. Actually, I have a couple of
questions that can go back to operations. I ask helicopter now even though it is water
safety?
Chief Westerman: Sure. If you would send that question over.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes.
Chief Westerman: Kind of how you would want it as close to
formatting as you can, and then we will see what we can provide to you.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: I think we are basically done going through all of
the Divisions.
Councilmember Yukimura: So we can go back.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: We will take a lunch break soon. If the questions
can be E-mailed, we can E-mail them. If you have questions that you think can be
answered quickly now, then we can talk about them now.
Councilmember Yukimura: On your helicopter Air I, RESCUE or EMS
standby, what does that mean? You have incident or type description. It is just a label or a
short description, Rescue or EMS standby.
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Chief Westerman: I am sorry. I gave you a copy of it and now I
cannot find my copy.
Councilmember Yukimura: Could somebody give him a copy?
Chief Westerman: That 381 is rescue or EMS standby. That is
what it is classified. These numbers and classifications come out of the National Fire
Incident Reporting system that we report all of our stuff nationally and every Fire
Department reports. So that is just a classification. That is not exactly what happened.
Councilmember Yukimura: Extrication. The other one you have, search for
person on land/search for person on water. I am just trying to understand the distinctions
here. It means a person was either rescued or not?
Chief Westerman: You would have to read the narrative on each
one of the calls to determine the actual call and what it was. These are just a call type that
we use to manage the database.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay, and that is the number? 381 is associated
with the category?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. I am looking at your list. It is under
"resident or visitor" but it actually means location, right? Your far right column.
Chief Westerman: Right. Well, the resident or visitor is actually
not above the right column. It should be moved over a little bit to the left. It is not lined up
correctly.
Councilmember Yukimura: So it should say something, like, location of
rescue?
Chief Westerman: Well, the rescued visitor, if you moved it to the
left on your paper over top of the columns that all say "resident" that would be the heading
for that column, and then the address and it kind of runs out. That would move over, too,
and then that would be in line with Hanakapi`ai, where the location is.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. The last column of names is really the list
of locations?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Looks like the majority of them are State
properties.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
April 7, 2015
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Councilmember Yukimura: Alright.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Any other questions from the other members?
Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Just a quick one on the helicopter. Earlier you
had said and maybe it was just an estimate and you need to get back to us, that for the
helicopter to be summoned or to it to go out, it is $450 per hour plus gas. Is that what you
said?
Chief Westerman: Right.
Councilmember Kuali`i: What is the helicopter contract $378,000? Is it
meant to cover that or do we also have a license agreement with a pilot?
Chief Westerman: The $450 an hour is what the manufacturer says
if you are going to charge, that is what you should be charging per hour because that is
what their estimated wear and tear on the aircraft is because so many hours requires so
much maintenance and it requires so many parts to be replaced. So that is what it costs to
maintain it per hour, essentially.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Yes.
Chief Westerman: The pilot contract just pays for the pilots and the
maintenance.
Councilmember Kuali`i: That amount, what does it represent? Are we
just forecasting and putting this money aside?
Chief Westerman: No. The pilot contract is for an entire year for
the pilots to be available from half an hour before sunup until half an hour after sunup and
to be on standby at the airport.
Councilmember Kuali`i: After sunup.
Chief Westerman: It requires them to have 2 pilots, minimum.
Councilmember Kuali`i: So whether we use them or not, that is just what
the contract is?
Chief Westerman: Right, and part of that contract is they do the
maintenance. They do the daily maintenance checks, the hourly maintenance, the 200 hour
checks, 300 hour checks, and then the $100,000 that is there is to replace the parts if the
parts need to be replaced.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Replaced parts?
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Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Kuali`i: It would be interesting and you could only do it
after the fact, to know how much it costs for each rescue because you assign a concern
amount per the days they are just on-call and not rescuing and then you assign an amount
to when they actually go out.
Chief Westerman: Yes. I guess there are 2 ways you could estimate
it. You could take the number of hours that are available in a year and divide the whole
cost by that or you could take the cost of an example of the $450 per hour and the cost of
fuel for an hour. They know how much it burns in an hour a then the rescue crew costs for
an hour salary and come up with an estimated salary because then again, as can you see in
the budget, one captain might be getting paid more than the other only because he has been
in two years longer than the other one. Unless you take the actual call and want to get the
exact cost of the actual time, an estimate would be fairly close. If that is what you are
looking for, we could probably generate that. But they would all be estimates. They would
not the actual cost of the call.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: This is regarding your written narrative. You
say under "Success and Achievements," that Captain Dean Lake completed his second EFO,
Executive Fire Officer program.
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Paper, on improving incident report data entry
for the Kaua`i Fire Department.
Chief Westerman: Right.
Councilmember Yukimura: What is the Executive Fire Officer program?
Chief Westerman: That is four year program put on by the National
Fire Academy. It is to provide leadership and skills training to Senior Officers in the fire
service. It is designed so that as you are attend the program, your term paper, so to speak,
every year is a paper that will benefit your Department.
Councilmember Yukimura: Great.
Chief Westerman: They go to the academy, they spending two week
getting some education and different things, and then they get their paper signed. Over the
year through correspondence, they have to complete their paper, then turn their paper in,
April 7, 2015
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and it is graded. It has to be graded to a 3.8 out of 4 so that it can get posted and then your
paper is posted at the National Fire Academy in their archives
Councilmember Yukimura: Actually published.
Chief Westerman: And becomes available for other people's use just
like the college.
Councilmember Yukimura: Very interesting. We support that kind of
training?
Chief Westerman: Absolutely.
Councilmember Yukimura: So there is like tuition and airplane and all of
that?
Chief Westerman: Actually, the only thing that it costs us other
than the person's time, is we have to pay for the meals because it is on a college campus.
Well, it is Old St. Mary's College. But they provide the meals and everything, the lodging
and refund all of the transportation costs and everything. The only costs to the County is
the cost of the meals. I take that back, and there is per diem flight about $25 each way.
Councilmember Yukimura: What you get is a useful paper to improve your
services.
Chief Westerman: Yes, and we get a little bit better educated.
Councilmember Yukimura: And training.
Chief Westerman: Leadership training, yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Last question.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Follow-up on the pilot contract. So that is a
private individual, nobody who works for the County, correct?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Kuali`i: What about the pilot's own insurance?
Chief Westerman: Yes.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Do they pay their insurance or do we cover it?
April 7, 2015
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Chief Westerman: Yes, they have an insurance policy and we have
an insurance policy. Yes, that is part of their contract that they purchase and maintain an
Aviation Insurance Policy for 20 some odd years if I am not mistaken.
Councilmember Kuali`i: I am just curious, ultimately, if there is not a
more cost-effective way to do it. But we will see. Thank you.
Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Any further questions for Fire? Thank you,
folks. Thank you everyone for coming out and being available for the questions. We will
take a one hour lunch. We will be back at 1:00 p.m. and we will have Police here.
There being no objections, the Committee recessed at 11:55 a.m.