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HomeMy WebLinkAbout03/23/2018 Department of Public Works (Operating & CIP (Operating)) Department of Public Works - Operating & CIP Honorable Mason K. Chock (excused at 1:32 p.m.) Honorable Ross Kagawa Honorable Derek S.K. Kawakami Honorable Mel Rapozo Honorable JoAnn A. Yukimura (excused from 9:25 a.m. to 10:26 a.m.) Honorable Arryl Kaneshiro Excused: Honorable Arthur Brun The Committee reconvened on March 23, 2018 at 9:00 a.m., and proceeded as follows: Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Welcome back. I would like to call back to order the Budget & Finance Committee and the Fiscal Year 2018-2019 Departmental Budget Reviews. Let the record reflect that we do have a quorum. Councilmember Brun is excused and Councilmember Yukimura will be out between 9:00 a.m. to 10:00 a.m. Councilmember Chock will be excused at 1:30 p.m. and Councilmember Kagawa has a prior commitment at 3:00 p.m. So let us try to get as much as we can done during the time that we have quorum. If we do run into quorum issues, we do have the Department of Public Works (DPW) on the schedule for Tuesday also, so we can finish up whatever we have, but let us try to get as much as we can done today so that we do not run overtime on Tuesday and then need to have a call-back. On schedule for today, we have the Department of Public Works' Operating Budget, followed by their Capital Improvement Projects (CIP) if time permits. With that, I think the schedule will go through the Department of Public Works, Administration and Fiscal, Engineering, Building, Wastewater, Auto Maintenance, Solid Waste, Highways and Roads Divisions. As we do each morning, we will take public testimony. Is there anyone in the audience wishing to testify? Seeing none, I will call up Lyle and suspend the rules. Lyle, if you have a presentation you want to make or just go over your budget presentation real quick, and then we will take questions on that and go through each division. There being no objections, the rules were suspended. LYLE TABATA, Acting County Engineer: Good morning everyone. Lyle Tabata, Acting County Engineer. Committee Chair Kaneshiro and Members of the Council, I trust that you have received our written presentation, and it is a lot of reading, but I just wanted to highlight the top level summary that the Department of Public Works' total Operating Budget is $59,900,000 or $60,000,000, as compared to last year's $52,800,000 or $53,000,000. The Operating Budget is basically flat, except for the increase in funds from one-half year of General Excise Tax (GET) funding...we project the one-half year and we placed that into the Highways and Roads Division's budget, of which they will be administering the funds to then complete the islandwide resurfacing. To just recap real briefly, the total General Fund is $7,600,000, slightly down from last year. The Highway Fund is $13,700,000, down from last year, but the difference is the islandwide resurfacing; we put it into a new category called "General Excise Fund." Solid Waste is $10,200,000, basically flat...sorry, Solid Waste is $20,100,000 versus $18,200,000 and that reflects the increase due to having to accommodate for the new landfill gas extraction system operation. Wastewater is $10,200,000, basically flat from last year's operation. With that summary, I will open it up for questions. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Council Chair Rapozo. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works—Operating & CIP Page 2 Council Chair Rapozo: I just have one question. I do not see in your presentation, but can you go over the positions? I see that there are some very expensive changes regarding the position. Can you explain what and why? Mr. Tabata: Anyone in particular? Council Chair Rapozo: The County Engineer is evident, but the CIP Manager, which it says there is a title change from "Executive Assistant to the Mayor" and then there is another Executive Assistant to the Mayor that is being moved from DPW's Building Division. Can you just go over the rationale? That is $117,000 apiece. MICHAEL TRESLER, Executive Assistant to the Mayor: Michael Tresler, Executive Assistant to the Mayor and sometimes called "Acting Deputy County Engineer." So there is not really new positions there that existed from last year's budget. The only change is that the County Engineer was budgeted for like eight(8)or nine (9)months because of the change in Administration and if they fill it, it needs to be funded. The CIP Manager was there and there may have been a title change. I am not real certain about that, but I always thought that it was CIP Manager. My position is that Executive Assistant to the Mayor. The reason being that I was explained to that Lyle holds two (2) positions; he is the Deputy and he had to hold that position in order to be the Acting County Engineer, so that is why that is reflected in that way. Council Chair Rapozo: The Executive Assistant to the Mayor used to be a CIP Manager and then it was changed? Mr. Tresler: Well... Mr. Tabata: That is the position that Keith formerly held. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Mr. Tresler: Then he left and... Council Chair Rapozo: So he was not a CIP Manager? Mr. Tabata: He was. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. I guess I am confused. Mr. Tabata: The amount there is what is projected with rate increases because these are...other than my position appointed by the Mayor as a department head, these other are excluded...I do not know what the right term is... "excluded management" and they follow along with the Hawai`i Government Employees Association (HGEA) contract increases. So they are not getting paid that amount right now. That is the max and we always put the max for that classification. Council Chair Rapozo: I am not complaining about the pay. I am just suggesting or asking...so the DPW Buildings—is that position not needed already? Mr. Tabata: So we were always using that position number; however, the position was located in the Office of the Mayor. So in moving it to DPW officially March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works –Operating & CIP Page 3 in this budget, you have that footnote there to identify that it was from a temporary project number that was in the Building Division. Council Chair Rapozo: So that position was in the Office of the Mayor doing what? Mr. Tabata: It was just doing work in DPW with me. After Mr. Dill left, Keith was always assigned to the Office of the Mayor, the CIP Manager position. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. I am looking at E-24. So you are telling me that E-24 was Keith's position...he left, right? Mr. Tabata: Yes. Council Chair Rapozo: So this 9051 came from DPW Buildings—whose position was that? Mr. Tabata: It was a temporary position that would have been normally funded by the Building Revolving Fund. Council Chair Rapozo: But you folks took that number and made it into... Mr. Tabata: Yes, we used that number. Council Chair Rapozo: What was that position used for is what I am asking? Mr. Tabata: It was not being used. It was as Building Revolving Funds were available to be used to run projects if we needed it. It was one of the flex positions that we used in the Building Division. Mr. Tresler: So the Building Division has the Building Revolving Fund and they have these dollar-funded positions, and as things grew and they became busier and they have money available, they would fund those temporary positions to help push out permits... Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, but you said that this position was in the Office of the Mayor, right? Mr. Tabata: The E-24. Council Chair Rapozo: No, I am talking about 9051. Mr. Tabata: It was not Building Division. Mr. Tresler: He thought you were talking about E-24. Council Chair Rapozo: No, 9051, because you are moving that position from DPW Buildings and my question was, do they not need that position anymore in Buildings, or are we going to see... March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 4 Mr. Tabata: We do not foresee the need for that position because we do not need it right now because it is a Building Revolving Fund temporary project position. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. That is all I have right now. Councilmember Yukimura: I have a follow-up. Councilmember Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: You do not need it now...does that mean that you do not need it this year, but is there a time where you might need it later? Mr. Tabata: We do not forecast in requiring it right now. Councilmember Yukimura: What is the trend of Building Permits? Is it going up? Mr. Tabata: It has been flat, but the values have been going up. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay, so the projects and the number of permits have not increased, but the value of the projects has increased? Mr. Tabata: The increase has not been significant, but the value of the projects have been more. Councilmember Yukimura: Often when we are in this new employee or low unemployment kind of economy, we tend to get a lot of construction. The economy is strong and there is more willingness to invest and build and so forth, sometimes we get smashed by this really kind of big growth spurt. Mr. Tabata: Yes. Councilmember Yukimura: I just want to make sure we are not entering that time when we will need this, and this is for a year's budget, so presumably, you can come in next year if it starts to spurt. But I am just asking about that curve, where it is or where you see us being. We do not anticipate a big crunch this year is what I am asking. Mr. Tabata: We do not. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: Is the CIP Manager position filled yet? Mr. Tabata: Yes. He is here in the room. I would like to introduce Wade Lord. Councilmember Kagawa: He is the CIP Manager now? March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 5 Mr. Tabata: Yes. He just came onboard and we are transitioning the role that Mike was overseeing and we are in transition right now. Councilmember Kagawa: For me, I was curious as to in the Buildings Division, we have a Project Management Officer, EM-5, and we have Doug sitting back there, and when we gave away to the Department of Parks & Recreation, the management of the repair, maintenance, and cleaning of the Building Division...we transferred it under Parks, so I guess we freed up some time in Buildings as far as management-wise. My thinking was that could they not be assigned some of the CIP Manager work? Mr. Tabata: They do construction management, so they take specific projects that are in construction, and between Doug and the EM-5, they oversee the construction projects and the interface between the County and the contractor. Councilmember Kagawa: So when we do the bids, they will help with the... Mr. Tabata: So the CIP Manager touches every County CIP project and tracks and follows-up on progress to report ultimately to the Mayor on progress; works on funding issues related to projects, as projects are in process, sometimes we need more money so we have to then go and reallocate funds and that is when we come to this body to get permission to reallocate funds and keep track of everything that is going on in the County, not necessarily running individual projects. Councilmember Kagawa: So when we move the whole division of maintenance and repair and janitorial and what have you to Parks, we did that because we were overburdened with management? I would think if you move that, then you free up a little bit of the manager... Mr. Tabata: So the Building Division has taken on what we characterize and newly initiated building vertical projects versus horizontal work. So we have stepped up in existing the Kaua`i Police Department (KPD) on new projects. They are also helping us with the automotive shoe mover nroiect that was at a standstill. and they are also running through Doug, the Transportation Investment Generating Economic Recovery (TIGER) project. Councilmember Kagawa: My fear is that with all of this...when we have $8,000,000 more in roads that is going to be available because of the GET, I would think that our CIP Manager and the Roads Division is going to be tasked with a little bit more work than in the past. I am just hoping that we can utilize some of our professionals that maybe have some management time opened up to help assist. I just want to make sure...like Council Chair said, he is doubting in some of these words that when we do have the GET moneys that we will not be able to spend it. I am hoping that it is not going to be because of management issues. If there are, then we should know now because I think we need to deliver...the public wants us to deliver the paving of the roads and see us improve a lot in that area, so I am just hoping that when we hit this budget that if there is a shortfall that we foresee, then we say it now. Mr. Tresler: That is a good segway, Councilmember Kagawa. We hear those words and that sentiment. We heard it while we went through the process and we hear it from the public every day. I would like to point out that we were able to put out in our projections $9,500,000 worth of roads and we only have $4,500,000 of funding. In fact, we got delayed because we waited for additional funding to come through after the March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works–Operating & CIP Page 6 Comprehensive Annual Financial Report (CAFR) was done. So that is why we put out one part of the bid already and the resurfacing part comes out on March 29th. With that said, we are ready with $5,000,000 worth of roads already, so our plan is to actually get a jumpstart so we can put this bid out real early in the year. We know the conditions of the road and we know that it has been raining and the complaints, but the faster we get this program started and get on our ten-year program, there is only one-half year of funding this year and I think we will see a huge difference if this program continues. I say in five (5) years, if we stay on this path, people's lives are going to be made better and they will be a lot more positive and happy about the road conditions. So point well-taken, but also in the budget, we have a couple of positions that we do need—and you are right—taking on going from $1,000,000 to $4,500,000, and then we are going to $8,500,000 to $12,000,000 to $13,000,000 a year, we are going to need project managers, like two(2)or three (3)positions that are being added so that when the next Administration comes in, they are hopefully hired and we are ready and prepared to handle the larger amount of roads that we are repaving. Councilmember Kagawa: My last follow-up is as we foresee this heavy workload coming down the pipe, is it more feasible for us to look at using the consultants to do a lot of those work regarding writing RFPs or what have you...privatize some of these services, because I think many times we see that the private sector has the experience and they have the knowledge and the ability to meet concrete deadlines. Mr. Tresler: That is a really good point. We have that in our back pocket. We are using consultant services to help us basically rate roads. We are working with the State and are going to try and partner with them for this lighter program, which will up our game and really give us excellent video data and electronic data to help us make those decisions and when we are programming the roads to be resurfaced. We could do that as part of it if we do need it, but I think right now in entering it, we already have a good platform and a database, and it is this proven out, like I said...I am pretty sure that our group can handle it. Councilmember Kagawa: I hope so. I look through this budget and I am not going to lie...I see a lot of EM positions, and when I see EM, I see the hope from the public that we can do the job. So I am just bringing some of those things out, because sometimes when you overburden the workforce, then it is hard to see that they are overburdened. As I look through the budget, I see a lot of EMs and I hope that we have the professionals that can get it done. Thank you. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Chock. Councilmember Chock: This is a follow-up in terms of the concern, and as I look at the vacancy report, I see eight (8) vacancies and three (3) are additional engineers. The interest of kind of increasing the capacity, I know that you have also outlined that it is an issue due to the upswing of the economy not being able to recruit. What is the plan in terms of trying to build that capacity? Mr. Tabata: We have been recruiting and we have been hiring, and as we hire...two (2) of them, we have hired from internal, so then you have lower-levels that open up. So it is a cascading right now in Engineering, but our goal is to fill all of the vacant positions. Presently right now, we have three (3) in Engineering. Councilmember Chock: Every year that I have been here, it has been an issue, so I just was wondering if there was another way to try to fill them... March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 7 Mr. Tabata: So what we have been doing is we have been recruiting at a variable rate, versus having people come in and start at the bottom. That has been shown to be more successful. Mr. Tresler: We have that tool and we need to use it. I know the State started doing that a decade ago and we need to be more competitive with our salary rates. You see it year-after-year, but do we change our game plan and attack? No, we only started trying to use the variable stuff. If we truly want to fill it, we need to be more aggressive. If we have good people, we want to keep them, pay them, and attract them. It is common sense, but yet we are always very conservative in the County because we are dealing with tax dollars. Councilmember Chock: Thank you. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Council Chair Rapozo. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. I am still trying to get a handle on these positions. Position No. 9051...I am looking at page 154 on the budget. So I see over there that Position No. 9051 has two asterisks next to it, which says... Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Council Chair, that is 154... Council Chair Rapozo: Page 154 of theirs...200 is ours, right? So the top right would be the...it is 200 for us on the lower...I am looking at Position No. 9051, which have two (2) asterisks and it says, "Position Moved From Public Works-Buildings" GET and that is the Executive Assistant to the Mayor. Right below that, we see Position No. 9047, Project Manager, which also has two (2) asterisks, which is telling me that it is moved to Public Works, but I do not see that. (Councilmember Yukimura was noted as excused.) Mr. Tabata: No, we have not used that. I believe that went to...hang on... Council Chair Rapozo: I am just reading what is on the budget. Mr. Tabata: So Position No. 9047 is on page 288 on yours.... Committee Chair Kaneshiro: It went to the General Excise Tax Fund. Mr. Tabata: Yes, to the GET budget and that is in there as a project...so this is a temporary position...these are not permanent...these are temporary positions, which we will recruit to fill to assist in exactly what Councilmember Kagawa's concern about being able to pull off taking these projects to the road. Council Chair Rapozo: So we do not have any Construction Managers in Buildings? Mr. Tabata: We have the EM position that was spoke of earlier. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works—Operating & CIP Page 8 Council Chair Rapozo: Which one? I am looking at Position No. 9049 which is dollar-funded. So you said that one is going to go over to GET. So that is going to be an increase of... Mr. Tabata: So Position No. 9048 is a Construction Manager position. Council Chair Rapozo: It is a Budget Management Officer? Mr. Tabata: Yes. Council Chair Rapozo: But we had two (2) Construction Managers and one (1) Project Manager and all of those are gone in Buildings? Mr. Tabata: They are not being utilized. These are temporary positions that we would fund for projects as we need them. Right now, the capacity is fulfilled with the personnel that we do have. Council Chair Rapozo: With the one (1) person? Mr. Tabata: Well, and the Division Chief, Position No. 1525...the two (2) of them run all of the projects coming out of the Building Division and more, and not only in Building, but they have taken on running the TIGER grant project. Council Chair Rapozo: So these three (3) contract positions were all funded by the Revolving Fund, right? Mr. Tabata: No, we are funding now...previously, if it was brought on, it would have been. Council Chair Rapozo: So this is a direct increase for this County's budget, these positions? I say this because the Mayor in his speech said "no new positions." So the people think"no new positions." Mr. Tabata: Well, we are using existing positions that were vacant, not being utilized... Council Chair Rapozo: These positions were not funded by the General Fund. Mr. Tabata: No. Council Chair Rapozo: Right. Mr. Tabata: If it was funded, it would have been funded by the Building Revolving Fund as needed. Council Chair Rapozo: Right, so my point is that these positions now are going to become County General Funded positions. Mr. Tabata: No. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 9 Council Chair Rapozo: How are you going to fund those positions? Mr. Tabata: The one that is going to the GE to support the road resurfacing will be GE Fund. Council Chair Rapozo: You can use the GE Fund for salaries? Mr. Tabata: Well, it is going to be used to put the product on the road. Council Chair Rapozo: That was my question. You can use the GE money for salaries. Mr. Tabata: I need Ernie to explain. Mr. Tresler: Yes, I am pretty sure. Council Chair Rapozo: The other one is the...51 is just going to be the existing position that...that one, too...that was a Revolving Fund position, right? Mr. Tabata: Right and previously, it was...we only have half a year of the County Engineer, because in order for me to be the Acting County Engineer, we need to retain the Deputy position. Council Chair Rapozo: Early on, I said that I am not concerned about that one. That one speaks for itself. I am not talking about that one. Mr. Tabata: So the funds that would fund that full went to Position No. 9051 to support me. So Position No. 9051 is basically as was stated the "Acting Acting Deputy." Council Chair Rapozo: No, but you already have a line item. You are already the Deputy, right? Mr. Tabata: I am the Acting County Engineer. Council Chair Rapozo: Right, but you are getting paid out of the Deputy County Engineer ordinance. Mr. Tabata: Yes. Council Chair Rapozo: Right, so you are taken care of. Mr. Tabata: What I am saying is the Position No. 9051 is my Deputy, but because I am holding two (2) positions, we have characterized it as Executive Assistant to the Mayor. Council Chair Rapozo: That is why I do not like vacant positions. Anyway, I am done. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works –Operating & CIP Page 10 Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Any other questions from the Members? I have a question about Special Projects. We had $30,000 for CIP Management System annual fee in the prior year and we have dollar-funded it this year. Mr. Tabata: I do not know if I can state it on the floor, but we have a conflict with the vendor that we are trying to resolve. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Okay. So we have not implemented that system yet? Mr. Tabata: No. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Okay. Councilmember Chock. Councilmember Chock: On page 148, Grant-In-Aid, $50,000—can you explain the extra $75,000,000 increase there? Mr. Tresler: Yes, I can explain that. That is for the Soil and Water Conservation Grant. What is happening is that they would get funding from Public Works and then they would go out and get funding from the Office of Economic Development. So we combined that to come out of Public Works. The service they provide is invaluable as far as grading exemptions for our farmers and any agriculture activities. That was, in our humble opinion, warranted. Councilmember Chock: Thank you. It is going to be there...it will continue to be there...it has been there all this time, right? Mr. Tabata: Yes. Council Chair Rapozo: I just have one more real quick. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Council Chair Rapozo. Council Chair Rapozo: Position No. 9048—last year, the budget was $104,000 and this year it is $112,000, so it is like an $8,000 increase. Mr. Tabata: Please help me...where... Committee Chair Kaneshiro: What page is that? Council Chair Rapozo: It is the same page that I was on, page 154. Mr. Tabata: Okay. I am sorry, what was the number again. Council Chair Rapozo: Page 154, Position No. 9048, Project Management Officer. Mr. Tabata: Yes. Council Chair Rapozo: In this year's budget, it is $112,248 and last year's budget, it was $104,000. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works –Operating & CIP Page 11 Mr. Tabata: That reflects the increase in the Collective Bargaining. Council Chair Rapozo: $8,000? Mr. Tabata: I believe so. Mr. Tresler: That is the step increases. Mr. Tabata: This is the Hawai`i Government Employees Association (HGEA) contract. Council Chair Rapozo: These folks are exempt, right? Mr. Tabata: But they still fall under the HGEA...they are excluded management. Council Chair Rapozo: $8,000 is how those raises work? That is a lot of money. I want to try to figure out what the percentage is. JAMES MATSUSHIGE: I guess it depends on the situation. If they are due for a step movement, they might have beyond just across the board raises also. So some people might just get across the board and some people might have step increases so they could have more than the others. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. I guess we can follow-up. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: It is a seven percent (7%) increase. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. The line people are getting two. I guess that is my concern. The seven percent (7%) for these folks and the seven percent (7%) for the person making $22,000 a year is a big difference. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Any further questions? We are on the Administrative budget. If not, we will move on to Fiscal. Any questions for the Fiscal budget? I have a question. The Account IV position, is that just partially-funded or fully-funded? Mr. Tabata: Fully-funded. We recently just hired. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: In the prior year, there was a position called "Section 3 Operating Budget Proviso" or there was a line item "Section 3 Operating Budget Proviso - $25,000"—what was that for? Mr. Tresler: That is for the transition with retirements and I think that would be happening... I know we have a fiscal officer that is retiring, so that gives the County an opportunity of hiring and training someone prior to that person's departure. So you can retain some corporate knowledge. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: I remember that now. So that Accountant IV position has been filled or will be filled? March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 12 Mr. Tabata: Yes, it is filled. I am sorry, as of April 1st, it is filled. Mr. Tresler: The start date is April 1st. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: So it is not filled yet. Mr. Tabata: Yes, April 1st, sorry. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Any other questions for Fiscal? We will move on to Engineering. Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: For Engineering, in looking at the budget, are any of these positions vacant? Mr. Tabata: Yes. Right now, we have 1434, 1876, and 1444. 1434 is in the hiring process and 1444, both of them recently completed interviews and pending offers. Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. Mr. Tabata: Then for 1876, we might be reallocating it to a lower-level engineer based on the interviewees that we had for these lower-level positions, able to bring newer, younger engineers in and take advantage of giving younger, newer graduates the opportunity to come into the County. Councilmember Kagawa: The Civil Engineer I comes in at $45,000...that is almost close to a starting school teacher, not to say that Civil Engineering is harder, but it is just a little more...one could say that the education is a lot more difficult. Then the beginning Fireman is at $70,000. I heard of one civil engineer, local boy, that went to the Fire Department, so I am thinking that perhaps we need to maybe close that bridge a little bit. Mr. Tabata: My sentiments exactly. Councilmember Kagawa: Like Chair Rapozo said, on the other hand, an $8,000 increase in one year...I think we have to move the lower one up and keep the top one down. I can see step movements and years of service, but when it is going up $90,000 over thirty (30) years is stretching it a little. I do not know...we have to do better...where is Janine? We have to do better somewhere. To jump $90,000 over your career...it should be closer to...it should be within Earth. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Council Chair Rapozo. Council Chair Rapozo: How many positions are going to GET? Mr. Tabata: Ultimately, we will have three (3), but right now, we are planning for two (2). Council Chair Rapozo: Right now, I am just looking at Engineering and there are two (2) more going, 1977 and... March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 13 Mr. Tabata: But the position will be housed in Engineering. We will be hiring...when we get to actually resurfacing, we will hire at another inspector. So if you go to the GE budget, we will have an Inspector. It is dollar-funded right now, but when we start resurfacing, we will hire another Inspector, and then an Engineering Support Technician for a total of three (3). I do not expect us to have to until we have full-year funding, but we just moved it there so that there is a placeholder. Council Chair Rapozo: Where does the GE positions show up in the budget? Mr. Tabata: Your bottom number is 288. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay... Mr. Tabata: So basically in this budget, we are setting up a structure to administrate the GE Fund with one (1) position funded, because that position is going to be finding the additional roads. We already have half the roads already accounted for, for the funds. So as Mr. Tresler pointed out, we have a little bit more work to go, which we will then deliver the product to the road. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Any other questions for Engineering? Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: So besides the Engineering positions, as we go down, there are no other vacancies from 1048 all the way down to the bottom? Mr. Tabata: No. Councilmember Kagawa: They are all filled? Mr. Tabata: In Engineering, yes. Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. Thanks. Mr. Tabata: We just have contract vacancies. For instance, 1977 and 9052 are also project-funded positions. Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. Mr. Tabata: Temporary in nature. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: The $72,000 in Statewide Transportation Improvement Program (STIP) reimbursements, can you explain that? Mr. Tabata: So we set aside a value that we estimated that we will get reimbursed by Federal Highways Administration through the State Department of Transportation. Part of the 80/20... March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works—Operating & CIP Page 14 Mr. Tresler: We can charge off some of our salaries and administrative costs to the project, and then we get reimbursed through that grant. So that is reducing our overall costs. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Any other questions for Engineering? If not, we will move on to Building. I know we had some discussion on Building already regarding their positions. Council Chair Rapozo: I guess I have a question for Doug. Can you function with all of these positions going away? DOUG HAIGH, Chief of Buildings: Doug Haigh, Public Works, Building Division. The Project Manager and Construction Manager positions were always dollar-funded and meant to use CIP funds actually. So if we had a big CIP project coming up that we needed more help, then it was an opportunity to hire somebody. That never really worked that well for us because there were not people interested being hired on a short-term contract basis. So basically...I forget the name of the position, but the General Funded Project Manager position and myself, the two (2) of us, have been managing the projects that have been delegated to the Building Division demand. Like the Acting County Engineer mentioned, we have been doing a lot of projects for the Police, Public Works, the Auto Repair Shop, and we have been helping out Engineering on various projects for them. So we have been kept quite busy. Now, the projects that went over to Parks, they took the senior position that was managing those type of projects to Parks. So really, they have the bodies there to manage those jobs that went to Parks. Council Chair Rapozo: When was the last time we used these Construction Manager contract position? Mr. Haigh: I believe it was probably at least ten(10)years ago that we actually funded and the person that was funded, he did not stay very long. He found a better opportunity elsewhere. Council Chair Rapozo: So we left it in the budget even though... Mr. Haigh: As dollar-funded positions, just in case if something came up and we did have the opportunity. Council Chair Rapozo: Or if some temporary position was needed, you could use the number, right? Mr. Haigh: I have no knowledge of that process. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Thank you. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Any other questions for Building? Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: So the budget is pretty much the same as last year, right? Mr. Haigh: Pretty much status quo. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 15 Councilmember Kagawa: It goes up just a little for the negotiated salary increases, right? Is there anything that is in here that presents any big change from last year? Mr. Haigh: There are no significant changes. Training has increased a little bit and part of that is to be able to fully support the electronic plan review. Also, we are hoping that we will be adopting new codes, so we will be training our staff. With the new code, we also have to purchase books and that kind of thing. We also have small money in there for mobile fees because we are moving into tablets for our inspectors and they will need the mobile communication. It is a small number. Councilmember Kagawa: Is that like a phone? Mr. Haigh: Well, it is a tablet and it has wireless capabilities. Mr. Tabata: Because we moved to electronic plan, now it is loaded up to the tablet and they can go into the field with the tablet. Councilmember Kagawa: But that is not the reason for the delays in the permits, right? The delays in permits are more departmental review type of issues, right? Like at the Department of Water and Sewers. It is not saving the one hour for the inspector to get back to the office to punch it in, right? Mr. Tabata: No. Mr. Haigh: Actually, the Building Division is doing quite well in plan review and processing permits. Our real challenge is managing violations. That is where the tablets are really giving us the tools that is going to allow us to up our game in dealing with violations and getting our inspectors to be able to do a lot more with less. We really expect to have a significant increase in our ability to deal with violations once we get these tablets in place. We are really fortunate that we have excellent inspectors, younger ones that we brought in who are ready for a more electronic, high-tech operations. Of course, we have a really great person managing the code enforcement section who is really working with the staff to bring him up. That is the key there with the tablets, not so much for plan review, but for dealing with violations. Councilmember Kagawa: What kind of violations? Mr. Haigh: Code violations, buildings without permits... Mr. Tabata: Sign ordinance... Mr. Haigh: Yes, sign ordinance. Councilmember Kagawa: Seriously though, if we want to look for violations, we know where they are. They are all over. I am talking about illegal rentals. I think it is more like on the violations...we need to spread it out clear, like what violations we are going after so that it is clear and as transparent as can be. Mr. Haigh: Right now, the policy is we go after violations that are reported to us and we are backlogged on dealing with just those. So the ones where people have filed complaints, we are backlogged on those. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 16 Councilmember Kagawa: Those complaints are complaints from neighbors? Mr. Haigh: Typically. Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. Thank you. So those are the ones we are talking about, like complaints from neighbors and we send our inspectors out to verify. Mr. Haigh: The public deserves the service that we follow them up quickly and get them resolved quickly. That is something that we have been behind on. Mr. Tabata: Taking the tablet, they will be able to upload immediately the information that they have discovered and finish the report in the field, and then it automatically loads into our system. Councilmember Kagawa: I guess my final concern is if the tablet is really going to make a difference and you folks are the people in management that are making the call to go with these tablets, but with these tablets, what they require is a lot of Information Technology (IT) work. They have to set it up and train. If the tablet breaks, they have to service their tablet. Every time we add more units onto IT's desk, they ask for more positions, more equipment, and more space. So I am just making sure that when we make these changes...I know it is easy to say, "Well, let us get a tablet for every employee and every employee can be more efficient with a tablet because he can check his E-mail faster and respond," but the fact of the matter is that it is not efficient for this County to give every single employee a tablet. If the tablet is going to make us more efficient, then go for it. I hope that we do not start getting these tablets and what have you and it is basically not going to change anything, because it is a big cost when IT comes up and tells us that they need more bodies. Just like how much cars we are buying; do we need all of the cars? No. But we bought them. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Chock has a follow-up. Councilmember Chock: I am trying to get an understanding of the delays that you are talking about, the backlog. Is it because of disputes to the building code or is it because the time that it is taking for them to get in compliance? What is the need there? Mr. Haigh: The key is consistent response on our side to the lack of response on the other side. That is our challenge. We have some long outstanding violations, Hanapepe theater is one, that we move along, the owner does a little bit. So what we are doing, once we get these tablets, we will be generating automatic letters, which will help us to increase and greatly improve our response. Councilmember Chock: Those are levied by fines as well? Mr. Haigh: We have fining capability available, yes. Councilmember Chock: The question is what will motivate the movement in terms of...it is not our end, it is their end. Mr. Haigh: We had a great success on the laundry service in Koloa. That was a long, drawn-out process. Finally, when we started sending the letters and March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works—Operating & CIP Page 17 documenting the fines, that we really got the response and finally resolved it. That was one of our best success on violations, because it was an owner who knew the game and was ignoring us...but once we finally put the hammer down and say, "These are the fines and it is daily," that we finally got them to spend the money and do what it took to get the building into compliance. Councilmember Chock: So the amounts are working, but it is the enforcement of the fines? Mr. Haigh: Yes, it is our ability to have the staff spend the time to work on that. Our number one focus is existing building permits, existing applications, keep the contractors working, and keeping the Kaua`i people working. That is our number one focus with the Building Division. If it is a severe life and safety issue, we will focus on that. But a lot of these violations are just work without permit and not necessarily a significant life safety issue, so we will not focus on it. If we see it as a significant life safety issue, then we will put our full focus on it. But there is a whole lot of them out there that are not necessarily critical life safety issues and more procedural issues. But we want to clean up those, too. It has been a goal of mine for at least ten (10) years that I have not done as good as I had hoped. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kawakami. Councilmember Kawakami: Thank you, Mr. Chair. So to be clear, our current process and methodology of identifying priority building violations are from constituents that are reporting to us that these building violations are occurring and we go and do our investigation? Is that the way we are currently doing it? Mr. Haigh: That is correct. We are pretty good on getting the investigations, because a lot of time, it is joint investigates with the Planning Department, Health Department, and sometimes Engineering is involved, depending on the type of violation. We all work together in doing the inspections, so we are pretty good at doing the inspections. After the inspection, the follow-up has been the challenge and particularly it is more of just a procedural thing, like I mentioned. A life safety goes right to the top and we have focused on that quickly. If it is more just a procedural thing, it kind of gets on the list of our outstanding violations that we need to follow-up on. Councilmember Kawakami: So oftentimes, I guess we hear that we are not being proactive, but I guess the reason is because we have this backlog of just responding to people that are reporting it to us? So we have not had a chance to get our feet off the ground to proactively go out and look for these building violations. Mr. Haigh: Right. We have never proactively looked for building code violations. We are trying to get a little bit better on our sign violations and kind of pick a neighborhood area and try to start working on that. As far as us roaming the neighborhoods and looking for illegal construction, that is something we have never done. Councilmember Kawakami: On the ordinance side, how much of a priority is that for us? Mr. Haigh: It is not a life safety issue. We have been trying for fifteen(15) to twenty(20)years to give that enforcement to the Planning Department, but we have gotten close, but never did cross that off yet. We are periodically doing some March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works—Operating & CIP Page 18 inspections and checking. One of the things that we are going to try to focus on now are a lot of these feather signs. The problem is once they start and they do not get cited, like a new type of sign, like this feather sign, then everybody starts using it. So we are going to try to catch those and let the owners know and try to nip it at the bud so that it does not become more prevalent. Councilmember Kawakami: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Tabata: Can I clarify that anything that is in construction with a building permit is paid attention to, as Doug said, and if we find violations during that process, we help the contractor correct them. It is these home projects or other that do not come in for building permits and get reported. We do not go out proactively looking for these home projects because they do not come in to apply for a building permit. Many times, a neighbor will see that and they will call us and report the action, and then we would have to investigate, which we are behind in doing that. By the time we get there, a lot of times, the project is completed. We have to kind of go backwards, look at what they did, and estimate the value, because there is also a threshold of when you need to come in for a building permit. Sometimes, the community does not understand what that threshold is. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Council Chair Rapozo. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. How many active investigations or violation investigations do you have going on right now? Mr. Haigh: I do not have that number in my head, I am sorry. Council Chair Rapozo: Ballpark? A dozen? One hundred (100)? Mr. Haigh: Probably over one hundred (100)? Council Chair Rapozo: Over one hundred (100)? Mr. Haigh: I would say between fifty (50) and one hundred (100). I really should not say any number because I do not have that number in my head. Mr. Tabata: I have seen that data, so we can get that for you. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. We will send that over in writing. I kind of want to see an aging summary, like how many we are resolving and how many we are not. Like you said, you have those three (3) positions for ten (10) years that you never used that could have been used for inspectors and more enforcement officers. The public is not buying this, "We do not have resources or backlogs." They are not buying it anymore. We have to fix that and that is where I am heading. Thank you. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: I am glad that Council Chair asked for the list, because I think when we buy the iPads, I want to see next year's, if I am here, and see what has been our progress. It is good to have a baseline number. I know that back when I was criticizing the motorpool about the problems that I had heard about a lot of cars sitting, and then we found out why was that cars were dirty or batteries did not start, et cetera, because these hybrids do better when they are used regularly and were met, but I guess it was Lingle's March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 19 law that enticed us to go the direction of buying those hybrids in the first place, rather than just regular gas cars, which would be better suited for occasional use. Anyway, my point was that these inspectors and what have you, they go out every day and they need the car every day, so I always thought that for them and the Planning Inspectors that also go out daily and the park sheriffs or whatever you call them that go out every day to the parks and check camping permits...I thought they should have cars assigned to them... Mr. Tabata: They do. Mr. Haigh: They do. Councilmember Kagawa: So your building inspectors... Mr. Haigh: All of our inspectors have cars assigned to them now. Councilmember Kagawa: They do not have to share? Mr. Haigh: No. Our office car, my car, are gone and the motorpool has worked out very well for us. If we have a project in Lihu`e, we get electric car... Councilmember Kagawa: Oh, you mean motorpool for you... Mr. Haigh: Yes, for our construction inspections that we do for County construction projects... Councilmember Kagawa: You are talking about for you or your inspectors? Mr. Haigh: The project manager and myself inspect our own County projects and we need to go out periodically. We have never had an incident where we did not find the car and the electric cars are great for the projects that are within the Lihu`e district. If we have to go farther, we may look for a hybrid. For our office needs, it is working out great. Our inspectors...I totally agree with you... Councilmember Kagawa: Do they have their own cars? Mr. Haigh: They have their own cars and they should keep having their own cars. Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. Mr. Haigh: Not only do they go out every day and spend most of the day out there, they can leave resources that they need for their inspections in the car. Mr. Tresler: When those cars have issues or need service, they can use the motorpool. Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. Mr. Haigh: It used to be that my car was used a lot of times as backup for the inspectors, because I certainly did not use it constantly. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 20 Councilmember Kagawa: So there are no issues with the inspectors now then? Mr. Tabata: There should not be. Like Mr. Tresler mentioned, the backup for their vehicles is the motorpool. They grab a motorpool vehicle and they can go. Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. Thank you. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: I have a question on the Green Box Initiative. I think this is the first complete year of moving a lot of the staff to parks. I just want to hear your perspective on how it has worked, has it been good for your office? I am going to ask Parks the same thing. Has it made the work more efficient and cost-savings? What has been your experience with that whole move? Mr. Haigh: Well, with the Green Box, there are two (2) management positions that went with the Green Box and those were the two (2) positions that were responsible for managing the Parks side, those maintenance operations and I was more of a technical support, and then of course, sometimes I get involved with personnel issues and that sort of thing. I am glad that those personnel issues are somewhere else. We are doing fine, focusing in on code enforcement, and then vertical projects and also other projects that are assigned for us to manage. Some of this stuff has come back to us, paying utility bills, sewer bills. We are okay with that. As far as the issue of...there is a fire alarm issue that I am hoping is getting better resolved and having bodies there to answer fire alarms when needed, but we are still assisting them in that unofficially, because I happen to have kept a couple of keys. Overall, from my perspective, it is one less thing for me to have to overlook, but was not really that much of my workload, because it was supposed to be managed by the two (2) people who were supposed to be managing it. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Okay. So for you, it helped you concentrate on other projects? Mr. Haigh: It was good timing, too, because there was a period there when we did not have a code enforcement officer, and with that vacant position, it took up a lot more of my time in code enforcement. Now, as we are bringing the new Code Enforcement Officer up, I am getting a little free time for that. But do not worry, the Administration is loading lots of projects onto us. We thought there would be less, but they keep popping up out of the woodwork, more projects for us to manage, as far as County facility development. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: I think it is going to continue to increase, so I am glad that you have more time to concentrate on those. Mr. Haigh: We are also helping out Engineering and trying to bring up and help the younger engineers manage the project management work. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Okay. Any other questions for Building? Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: So the sign inspections has been passed from Planning to you? March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 21 Mr. Haigh: No, it has always been with us, but for twenty(20) years I have been trying to move it to Planning, because really, the sign ordinance is based on zoning and it is not a building code issue. It is more of a Planning type of issue. So we have been trying for years. Councilmember Kagawa: But they say that they were the ones that were enforcing it before? Mr. Haigh: No, they never enforced it. It has always been with the Building Division, but like I said, I have been trying for twenty (20) years to pass it over to them. Councilmember Kagawa: I had a conversation with Mike and it seemed that he said that we have passed to Buildings the enforcement of the signs. Mr. Haigh: No, we have always been responsible for sign enforcement. Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. Mr. Haigh: There have been a few that...like the whale wall...they were kind of...that was not really a sign, but that goes into their Planning world where they would get involved with, but the normal sign violation has always been with the Building Division. Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. We are good. Mr. Haigh: Okay. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Next, we will move on to Wastewater. Jason, I should have done this earlier as the divisions came up, but if you want to just give a basic overview. I know we have the write-up here, but if there are any highlights in the budget that you want to just mention upfront to us, any changes, anything that happened last year, and any successes; you can give us a brief overview. JASON KAGIMOTO, Chief of Wastewater: For the record, Jason Kagimoto, Chief of the Wastewater Division. As far as the past year, there has been a lot of work. As you all know Ed Tschupp is retired, so we are in kind of a transitional period. As far as highlights, the main two (2) that come to mind is we have been continually trying to work at the Wailua odor issue, and in doing so, we had our consultant doing, amongst various types of inspections, one of them was visual inspection, where they ran a camera down the sewer line. When they got to the manhole...that was in front of the Shell Gas Station, so at the intersection of Kai() Highway and Haleilio Road, I guess they identified what looked like a structurally deficient manhole and they were able to notify us and we went out and confirmed that situation. So we were able to put a steel plate on it and procure with a contractor to go and do this manhole replacement. There is still some work that we need to do, but I guess the highlight is that we were able to kind of identify this potential safety hazard for the public and make it safe in the meantime, and then eventually the structural repair. The other sort of highlight is that in that general area, as far as the odors, we were at a Wastewater Conference in February and we identified for this manhole odor control product. So it is basically, like (inaudible) earth media that is impregnated with a specific resin and basically March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works—Operating & CIP Page 22 what that does is they put this material and they hang it in the manhole cover, kind of like in a bowl that sits under the cover. So as the air passes through, it gets filtered through this media. So it kind of works like activated carbon works, but it is just a different type of media. The benefits is that it is pretty cheap. On average, what we are expecting it to last...it should be about a dollar ($1) per day per manhole. After the media is spent then we are able to throw it away at the landfill, so it is still a safe to use and safe to handle product. It seems like it is a "win-win-win" in all the directions. We were notified of it by a colleague who uses it out in Kona, who has had really good experiences with it. So we initially put in two (2) manhole covers. That was sort of the like the first trial run. We went out and talked to a bunch of local businesses in the area and as far as we know, at that time, there were positive results, but that is sort of like the first outreach. So we are in the process of buying another half dozen and putting out another three (3) to four (4) manhole covers in that area. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kawakami. Councilmember Kawakami: Thank you, Mr. Chair. The root of the problem is that we do not have enough flow, right? Mr. Kagimoto: Yes. Councilmember Kawakami: So if we want to get to the root of the problem, how many more housing units or businesses would we have to add-on to correct this problem at the root of the problem? It is multifold. We are trying to get away from cesspool and septic because it is showing tremendous environmental damage. What is the long-term vision of how many more people that we need to add-on to this system so that we can get the correct flow? Mr. Kagimoto: We definitely could span to add a lot more customers. For us, the target area is...the pump station itself is the Arzadon pump station. That has the big force main that has the long lead time. So basically from the Arzadon area or industrial area and further east from there, that is the ones that would really sort of add the flow that would be passed through the Arzadon force main. As far as numbers, I do not really know off the top of my head, but it would be quite a big investment to put in infrastructure. But as you mention, there are benefits more than just the monetary investment and revenue. For the County, it is environmental benefit. Councilmember Kawakami: Long-term, it is going to happen. Mr. Kagimoto: Yes. Councilmember Kawakami: The State is already moving towards banning cesspools and septic, and then the people are going to ask, "Who is responsible for this? Is the County going to be responsible for creating this infrastructure and fixing this problem? Are we going to just keep kicking the can down the road?" I think the long-term vision that we have to have is how much exactly is this going to cost? When do we start moving on these type of CIP projects? I guess they will come up during the CIP. Thank you. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Council Chair Rapozo. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. So you would concur that the problem is the flow? March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 23 Mr. Kagimoto: Yes. Council Chair Rapozo: We spent quite a bit of money on the last deodorizer or whatever we spent, but that is not working? Mr. Kagimoto: So there are a couple of ways to sort of attack the odor issue. One of the things that would help and make it equivalent to other areas is, "Yes, if flow were to happen, then the generation of the odors would not necessarily exist, not nearly to the levels that they do. I think basically, what our engineer estimated is it basically takes about...I forget...it might be about twelve (12) hours or so to get from Arzadon pump station to the Restaurant Kintaro area. At that point, it is in a pressurized pipe, so there are not any ways for the odors to release, so you have a situation where it is septic and it is foul...at the point where it can actually off-gas, which it is when it turns to gravity sewer, it is in that area, basically from Restaurant Kintaro to Coco Palms pump station. Adding more flow would help to reduce the generation of the odors. We have sort of been trying to attack it from the other side, which is addressing the odors after they have been generated. That odor unit that has been put at Coco Palms...it has been doing a good job for what it does. So I guess the approach of the division has been to sort of look at what we could have done easiest and quickest, and one of the first ones that was sort of like the easiest one was to address it at the pump station because we have the space and the property to sort of work with. That pump station...we had that odor unit, as you mentioned, and it does a good job for what it is meant to do. It is meant to isolate or address the odors at that site, but there are manholes that are upstream of there. So if it off-gases before then, then those odors are generated before they get to the pump station. In that regard, that unit has its limitations. Council Chair Rapozo: I live in the Houselots, so I drive past that several times a day and I have been quite a loud supporter of that unit, because for quite a while, I could not smell. But it seems like in the last several months, it is very strong. In fact, I can smell it in front of Coco Palms and beyond. I do not know if that unit is functioning like it supposed to. Mr. Tabata: We can look into that. Council Chair Rapozo: For a long time, it was really good. Mr. Tabata: So the manhole odor control items that Jason mentioned that we ordered, installed, and ordering more, it replaces another project that we had funded that we should be able to then direct those funds that we wanted to expand that system that was installed at the pump station at that intersection at Haleilio and Kuhio. We can follow-up and check if you are smelling odors now. Council Chair Rapozo: It is bad again. I am getting concerned now because you said you folks are starting something new. When was that? When did you folks start doing that? Do not tell me about three (3) months ago. Mr. Kagimoto: No, so we were getting some complaints and we went out there and we definitely concur with the complaints. That was probably in the February timeframe or earlier. When we went to the conference in February, at around that same time was when we were getting all of those complaints. So we put in those two (2) manhole odor control units when we did the construction after that conference, which was probably late February, early March. I guess one of the things I guess I would clarify with that is by putting in these odor units in the two (2) manholes, they are basically...with the March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works–Operating & CIP Page 24 material, it sort of forces the air to take a longer path to get out so that the media can do its job and filter out the odors. In doing so, it slows down or sort of makes the air have a harder time to get out. In some ways, when we are putting it into these manholes, it is going to find other ways out until we cover all the manholes in that area. That is kind of like until we get them all in, we are sort of knowing that it will not be a real solution until we can roll them all out. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Chock. Councilmember Chock: Thank you, Jason. I see it as part of the challenge that not only us looking at how it is we are going to address in thirty(30)years the regulations coming out or the deadlines or goals that we had for transitioning, but also the aging of our infrastructure, which I know is a challenge that you have identified here. So my question is about sort of a holistic view of what it is really going to take, and have you started those discussions in planning? What is the kind of infrastructure attention is it going to take for to us move forward? Mr. Tresler: Councilmember Chock, on that question, we have been discussing our aging transmission system. Much like we have been able to do with roads, Jason and I were discussing possibly creating that database, rating our transmission systems, and then hopefully try to identify a program that we could afford to maybe address it more practicably. We are dealing with constant fires and emergencies, chasing it down because of our aging infrastructure. Councilmember Chock: Okay. So it sounds like at this stage, we are kind of like in the collection of data in order to get to a place where we can put together a plan of attack. I think on the flipside of that of trying to transition these cesspools and maybe even looking at building infrastructure where it is feasible—I say"feasible" because I do not know what that really is...we know in Hanalei that it is not. What is that plan for the areas that we can expect? We talked about wanting in Koloa and other areas for years. For future leaders who might be at this table and the new Administration, we need to get an early start on how it is we can move towards that direction of building capacity. Thank you. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: A friend brought up to me that maybe the odor problem...there is a product from Japan...that clear thing...one drop does amazing results, so I am wondering if we could use like a percolator or something? Have we tried that? No. Okay. That thing is amazing. Anyway, back when we did the sewer line hook-ups...I think it was after Hurricane `Iniki, like Hanapepe Heights that we made it mandatory. Everybody had to connect. There was no "saying no." People did want to connect, because I think at that time, it was $5,000 to $6,000. I do not know if we can check the history books on the payment, but that was a lot of money back in '92 or '93. Today, if we wanted to make the users pay for it and we extended...say in Kapa`a, something that already has a sewer treatment plant, just like you said, a lot of infrastructure underneath...how much would a single-family be asked to pay if they wanted to keep it within their costs? Would it be $20,000? Mr. Kagimoto: So the way that the ordinance is set-up is so that if a sewer main goes by your house and the main has a lateral for your property, then you are March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 25 required to connect. So there are two (2) connection fees. One of them is a sewer connection fee, which is $50, but the bigger fee is a Wastewater Treatment Capacity Assessment. So that is sort of the like the buying in into the overall system and that is a $3,900 fee. Councilmember Kagawa: It is only $3,900? Mr. Kagimoto: Yes. For a home that was on a septic or cesspool, there is that incurring monthly bill also that goes along with that. Mr. Tresler: But when the homeowner needs to create the connection, then... Mr. Kagimoto: Yes, that is true. On their side, so what the lateral does is it provides it up to the property line, so the homeowner would contract with a plumber or somebody to do the plumbing on their own private property. That would be an additional cost for that. Councilmember Kagawa: I would think that if we do extend, I do not know if that $3,900 is adequate. How long has it been $3,900? Mr. Kagimoto: I can speak for as long as I have been here, which is five (5) years, but I would assume that it has been for a while. That is just that portion of the fees. There are sort of like if you are looking at the infrastructure buildout and stuff like that, that is what the rates try to address. Councilmember Kagawa: I agree with Councilmember Kawakami that we should extend if we can. Mr. Tabata: I believe that we have not, in recent years, looked at expanding the system. So we do not have what it would cost to bring an extension of a sewer main to the community and those kind of discussions that Mr. Tresler just brought up is what we are looking to investigate. The Department of Health has pointed out to us, and Jason attended these meetings, that the department stated that they would like us seriously to look at certain areas, which are problematic. So we are beginning that process. Councilmember Kagawa: You said east of Arzadon industrial is all cesspool? Mr. Kagimoto: No, so like the areas that would sort of help with the flow to address our odor issues in that Arzadon area and east would be the most beneficial, because those are the ones that would add that flow that would be then pumped through that pump. Councilmember Kagawa: So they are currently not on the sewer line? Mr. Kagimoto: There are areas on sewer. So our sewer system goes out to around Kapa'a High School, but on the highway area, so we pretty much just service the highway corridor. Councilmember Kagawa: So it does not go up Kapahi and stuff? March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 26 Mr. Kagimoto: Yes, even along the coastal areas like Fuji Beach and that kind of stuff. So there are a bunch of areas where we are right on the highway we are, but if you block in residential or commercial, you are not served. Councilmember Kagawa: That would be a no-brainer the Fuji Beach side. They are the closest to the ocean. Mr. Kagimoto: So I think what happened in just looking at the design and trying to assume what happened is that it is a big force main, so I think they built that trunk line with the anticipation of all of this future buildout that there would be enough capacity for the sewer line and that expansion of the collector system just never came. Councilmember Kagawa: If you do sewer line that area, the `Oama might not come around Fuji Beach. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kawakami. Councilmember Kawakami: What does the $3,900 fee cover? Mr. Kagimoto: It covers the Wastewater Treatment Capacity Assessment, so it is basically like the user's fee in terms of the asset, kind of like buying into the overall asset or overall cost. Mr. Tresler: It is similar to the Department of Water's facility reserve charge. Councilmember Kawakami: Who is responsible for analyzing if this fee is up to date and current? What gives people heartburn is everybody knows that the cost of everything continues to rise. The hard part for them to stomach is when we kick the can down the road and we exponentially raise it to the roof in a blink of an eye, which is what happened to (inaudible), so who is in charge of analyzing this fee to ensure that it is covering the cost of what is justified to our constituents? Mr. Kagimoto: We currently have a rate study that is ongoing right now that they are looking into that. Within this fiscal year, we should be wrapping that up, so we would have a better idea of what kind of plan we have going forward. Councilmember Kawakami: The scary thing is when you take a look at what is going around on Maui, like even some of the water quality on Kaua`i at our beaches, considering that the visitor industry is our bread and butter, how do we market a place when we have polluted beaches because we have these outdated cesspools? Moving forward, like said before, let us take a look at that. How much coordination is there between Roads, Wastewater, and Water? When we are doing some of these CIP improvements, when we are deploying general excise tax revenue towards road resurfacing, how much coordination is there when say, we go into fix one road, and that would be the right time to go and start putting in infrastructure for wastewater? Are we talking to each other? (Councilmember Yukimura was noted as present.) Mr. Tresler: Good question. Whenever we carve our prep process for islandwide resurfacing, our plans get sent over to the Department of Water for their approval, because in doing so, we help identify where the meters are and so forth. So March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works –Operating & CIP Page 27 that coordination has helped, plus our Acting County Engineer sits on their board, so that also helps with that communication and partnership. We do our best in trying to make sure that, "Hey guys, these are the roads we are working on, so if you have things to do, do it before we get there,"because the worst thing that happens is we repave a road and they come in and do the water lateral and then that causes a big issue. So we have been trying to address it with them on their quality of repacking and trying to avoid those situations. Councilmember Kawakami: For the flow issue—I am just thinking back on how we generate electricity through our hydroelectric plants—if it is a flow issue and the odor issue with the Wastewater Treatment Facility, is there any way we can utilize streamflow to help subsidize some of that flow? I would not know the sensitivity of your equipment, so that is why the question has to be asked. If we are trying to problem-solve this odor issue and we have an increased flow...we take this river water and we run it through the turbine and it generates electricity, is there any nexus or any type of way we can utilize that? Mr. Kagimoto: For us, what we try to do is basically try to minimize the amount of flow that we need to treat, because that burdens the system. But also from an ordinance standpoint, the ordinance does not allow stormwater into the sewers. I guess I appreciate the thought of trying to figure out other ways to attack the situation. Councilmember Kawakami: So our ordinance does not allow stormwater to go into our system, but we allow it to go into our streams that end up into our beaches and ocean. Is it an outdated ordinance? Mr. Kagimoto: If we were to allow it to get into the sewer, then that means we have to treat that much more volume. Once it touches it, then it becomes wastewater and just the overall burden as far as having to treat, the flows increasing, and stuff like that, would compound our issues. When there are storm issues and what not, then the surcharges and the impact on our systems would be that much greater. Councilmember Kawakami: But we are under-capacity right now? Mr. Kagimoto: Well, under-capacity for that section of it. Councilmember Kawakami: For this section? Mr. Kagimoto: Yes. Councilmember Kawakami: So if we are only limiting it to that particular section and not islandwide...so if we are just focusing, because this is where the problem is, how much under-capacity are we? Mr. Tabata: This is just the collection system capacity. Then you have the treatment plant capacity and the treatment plant capacity, right now,is limited. We recently came out of doing upgrades, but for the amount of expansion to satisfy the flow issue...I do not want to speak out of turn, but I believe that one of the projects that we have going on right now is to look at properly sizing the pumps at this pump station that Jason mentioned, Arzadon pump station, to possibly downsize or look at other control mechanisms to do a variable flow pump system that can keep the flow going constantly, versus stop and go. You get the situation at night where the capacity is down because nobody is using the system. To somehow utilize the sump pump that is there to hold and keep the pumps running March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works—Operating & CIP Page 28 at a slower rate, then you just keep the water moving. So we are looking at different alternatives right now. I believe a lot of the stuff we have been talking about or the symptoms, trying to deal with the symptoms, but getting to the root cause, which the bottom line is keeping the flow moving. So we are looking at different opportunities to solve that issue. At some point in time, yes, we want to use the full capacity of the system. But how we develop the infrastructure to get there is an undertaking, as was mentioned earlier. That will also serve the needs for the general public of what the Department of Health is concerned. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: I have a question going back to the rates. Who sets the rates for the sewer connection, wastewater capacity, and the actual monthly rate? Mr. Tabata: So we recently came out of our rate increase. I believe the last increase was two (2) years ago and that is why it precipitated another rate study that Jason mentioned. I believe the last increase was two (2)years ago. So they would look at what the proper rate would be to maintain what is existing, and then the connection fee...not connection fee, but the Wastewater Treatment Capacity Assessment is what they calculate based on the needs if we did have to expand the facility, what that additional cost based on the potential connecting volumes would be. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: The rate case is not islandwide, right? Mr. Tabata: It is the whole island for our own facilities. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: So even though we have facilities spread throughout the island, it is all one rate case? We have to charge the same rate to everyone, even though one wastewater system may cost us way more to run than another? Mr. Tabata: Yes. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Okay. Mr. Tabata: The County will be charged one flat rate. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Because I know that the private wastewater systems are having a hard time also, because the rates they are getting through PUC, they are not able to cover their future costs. They are not able to put in a reserve number to replace aging lines and things like that. Are we able to build a case to start saving up for...it is inevitable that eventually that we are going to have to replace some main lines. Mr. Tabata: The County does not have any reserve mechanism. The only agency that does any kind of the reserve mechanism or uses a reserve mechanism is the Housing Agency for their residential rental units that they have, say the one in Koloa and over here in Hanamd'ulu. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: So when we go through a rate case, they are looking at past costs we have done and then they are basing the rate off that? Are they not looking at any future work that we need to do? Mr. Kagimoto: They do, we provide them with an approach going forward so that they can take those into account. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works—Operating & CIP Page 29 Committee Chair Kaneshiro: So we do try to budget main line replacements and aging infrastructure type of items back into the rate case? Mr. Kagimoto: Yes, it is all sort of like a balance because we do not necessarily want to come out with a new rate that would be much higher than the existing one, so there is a check and balance kind of situation. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Sorry, who sets the rate again? Mr. Kagimoto: We do. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: We set our own rate? Mr. Tabata: Based on the information that they provide to us, then we come before this body to approve the rate increases. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: My fear is one of the biggest challenges is our aging infrastructure. In looking at the wastewater budget, based on the budget, we are putting in $500,000 from the General Fund as a subsidy, so it is already telling us that whatever rates we are getting, it is not covering our existing operations. If we have aging infrastructure that we are going to need to replace in the future, then we absolutely do not have money for that. So I am just wondering how do we accommodate those kinds of rates into this structure...we are already not operating...of course, we could lapse on some stuff and maybe not do some of the work and maybe break even or something. Again, based on the work that we have budgeted for, the rates are not covering what we want to do, so we definitely want our money for major infrastructure improvements. Mr. Tabata: We agree. Just to speak to the General Fund input into the budget, Wastewater does provide services to general-funded facilities. For instance, for the parks, the County, going back close to ten(10)years ago, did a large capacity to septic conversion of all of our County facilities that were not connected to sewers. So all of our parks are now a large septic system, so even a couple of cases aerobic septic systems. So the Wastewater Division does maintenance of those septic systems, so that is the return charge to the Parks Department to perform that work. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: We will keep going on questions regarding the rate and aging infrastructure, maybe for like another five (5) or ten (10) more minutes, then we will take our break and come back. Councilmember Chock. Councilmember Chock: I am all for where this discussion is going like future reserve needs and identifying what that cost is with this study. I just wanted to throw in that I feel like also like what the Department of Water has done is kind of created this variable rates so that we can also support those who are getting the kind of housing, for instance, that we want. We just passed that Additional Rental Unit (ARU) Bill. Mr. Tabata: We have that, too. Councilmember Chock: So we have that available? Mr. Tabata: The qualification to that is they need to apply through the Housing Agency. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works—Operating & CIP Page 30 Councilmember Chock: As long as they get that exemption for that rate? Mr. Tabata: Yes. Councilmember Chock: Okay. Mr. Tabata: If they qualify, then we extend; the same as what Water has now. Councilmember Chock: Is there a cap on that based on what we can afford? Mr. Tabata: As long as you qualify through the Housing Agency. Councilmember Chock: Thank you. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: So the $500,000 mentioned as a subsidy from the General Fund is actually a payment for services to the County's general needs, like parks and so forth? So it is not in fact a subsidy? Mr. Tabata: That is how I would like to character it as such. Councilmember Yukimura: Well, there is a way of calculating it, I presume. Mr. Tabata: Yes. Councilmember Yukimura: I would just like to get a verification from Finance that that is what it is. As I came in, I heard you talking about the problem of the road being repaved and then somebody coming in and then putting in a sewer line, busting up the new road. There are some communities that require trenchless installation where a road is not more than five (5) years old or something like that. Is that something that you folks have considered? Mr. Kagimoto: Yes, so we are in the design process for two (2) subdivisions. So the older section of`Ele`ele, I guess, below `Ele`ele Nani, and then the other section in Hanama`ulu, which is the mauka side of the highway. So we are in design to do some rehab projects in those areas and the method of rehabilitation is going to be a Cured- In-Place Pipe (CIPP) liner, so it would be a trenchless method. Councilmember Yukimura: That is excellent. So you could actually put it in your specs as a way to avoid breaking up the pavement? Mr. Kagimoto: Yes, and it also saves a lot of time in terms of...because they do not have to trench and repair, so it is a quicker process. Councilmember Yukimura: A lot of less dislocation or disruption. Mr. Kagimoto: Yes. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 31 Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: With that, we will take a ten-minute caption break and come back and still be on sewer. There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 10:40 a.m. The meeting reconvened at 10:53 a.m., and proceeded as follows: Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Welcome back from our caption break. We are just finishing up on Wastewater. Do we have any final questions on Wastewater? Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: I have the question that I asked the Mayor and he handed it to you folks. It was about Po`ipu. Mr. Tresler: What we want to say is we are fully aware of the situation in Koloa and Po`ipu. Myself in particular, I worked hand-in-hand with HOH in creating that regional plan for regional plant that had a full Environmental Impact Study (EIS) done and everything. Councilmember Yukimura: Who is HOH? Mr. Tresler: It is a Po`ipu utility right across the Sheraton. Councilmember Yukimura: What does in stand for? Mr. Kagimoto: It is not an acronym, water molecule. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay, so they are an entity or a plan? Mr. Kagimoto: They are the utility, so the private wastewater utility. Mr. Tresler: In that area. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Mr. Kagimoto: So they have the PUC control over the Po`ipu area. Mr. Tabata: And Koloa. Mr. Tresler: So the Mayor has been holding and trying to organize...there is a lot of parties obviously in that area and to do that, so we have been working with these various parties. There are developers in the Koloa Town area that are seeking solution. What you brought up is a point well-taken, but again, it is a process and it is a long-term thing. Councilmember Yukimura: What is the goal? Mr. Tresler: Well, the goal is to facilitate having a regional solution. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works—Operating & CIP Page 32 Councilmember Yukimura: Okay, so the goal is a regional wastewater solution. Mr. Tresler: Yes. Councilmember Yukimura: Because you can get economies of scale, you can get more security in terms of brakes and so forth and presumably more cost-effectiveness. Mr. Tresler: But we are not at the point where it could be a private solution versus a public solution. Councilmember Yukimura: What are the steps that are being taken to make those determinations that would enable you to move forward on solutions? Mr. Tabata: Thank you for that question. I should say that myself right now, are in discussions with the State Department of Health Wastewater Branch to look at how we would move forward in first identifying all of the producers. There are two (2) major wastewater facilities, Po`ipu Water Reclamation Facility and the Grand Hyatt Wastewater Treatment Plant. Along the lines, there is another seventeen (17) individual wastewater treatment plants at those individual facilities along the ocean coast in the Po`ipu area. There is nothing in Koloa Town and that is what is being explored, as Mr. Tresler just mentioned. HOH Utilities holds the PUC service area for the Po`ipu and Koloa area. Because they hold the PUC service area, they have the first right of refusal for bringing service to those designated areas. For the County to get involved and look at doing the infrastructure or building a regional plant, right now, is not our responsibility because of the existing PUC approved service area for the present utility there. Councilmember Yukimura: But could the PUC not... Mr. Tabata: But we are cooperating and working with them to look at different options. Councilmember Yukimura: Could the PUC not require 11011 to do a regional plan? Mr. Tresler: I do not think that the PUC can require them. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Mr. Tresler: Councilmember Yukimura, there are various interests and I think what Mr. Tabata has alluded to is that we are trying to work with the Department of Health to maybe get some funding to do a study that would help to organize things and bring things to the surface. We understand that in government, we should be looking at developing infrastructure to help our community growth, environment, and so forth. There is all these different parties and he has been organizing them and bringing people together to start those discussions. Aside from that, that is what has been happening. This is a longer-term process, so it is going to outlast his administration, but he has started to get the ball rolling, so to speak. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works—Operating & CIP Page 33 Councilmember Yukimura: That is good, because there is clearly a need and it is both an important economic development issue, as well as a wastewater safety/environmental integrity issue, right? Mr. Tresler: Definitely. Councilmember Yukimura: How are these developers that are just developing in Koloa Town at a pretty high density dealing with their sewers? Mr. Tresler: I am pretty intimate with that one. For the most recent one, they are required to take care of their own waste stream, so they are coming up and having to develop their individual wastewater treatment plant. I know that Po`ipu water...again, these are the interests...we have been in discussions about joining together, working together to bring about a wastewater solution sooner than a regional plant can come about. Councilmember Yukimura: The houses are going up already. Mr. Tresler: Well, if there are individual homes... Councilmember Yukimura: No, I thought it was a development... Mr. Tresler: Koloa Village, right? Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. Mr. Tresler: They have approved. They have an individual...their plan is to do an individual wastewater plan. But they are being cooperative in looking towards a greater solution, because if we did have a transmission line there, there is certainly hookup and not want to run their own plant. In order to make their timelines and deadlines, they have a solution. Councilmember Yukimura: That has been approved by the Department of Health? Mr. Tresler: Yes, my understanding is that... Councilmember Yukimura: Well, I guess it has to be if they are starting to build. Mr. Tresler: They have to go through their processes, but that is their plan to do it and I am not intimate with where they are in their process. Councilmember Yukimura: But it is a stumbling block to anybody who wants to build in that area and that it is definitely a stumbling block to affordable housing. Mr. Tresler: You are correct. It is a stumbling block to existing businesses there, too. So we are fully aware of that. Mr. Tabata: There are solutions in the works right now, as Mike mentioned, and alternatives being looked at. It all boils down to financing and the ability to finance a transmission system to connect to the HOH utility system or to build an March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works — Operating & CIP Page 34 individual wastewater treatment plant. I guess I cannot say anymore, but there are various options being worked on concurrently. Councilmember Yukimura: The thing is that if they are all individual solutions, it is going to be far more expensive than if you had an overall plan and everybody got allocated their share of the cost. Mr. Tabata: I agree. That is the discussion I am having with the Department of Health. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. At some point, we are going to see a plan for how this is going to be done. Mr. Tresler: I would hope so. Mr. Tabata: Yes. That is the goal. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. I am glad that you are working on that because I think Po`ipu is pretty much the biggest economic engine and it is really important to the island, not to mention to the people who live and work there. Thank you. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Any other questions for Wastewater? Councilmember Yukimura: On the Repair & Maintenance (R&M) Equipment on page 348, these are proposals for the next year budget and you folks last year had a budget of over $1,000,000 and spent $968,000 to-date. Is this correct? And are asking for next year $850,000? Mr. Tresler: Sorry, which page? Councilmember Yukimura: Mine says 348. Mr. Tabata: So year-to-date, they have spent of$968,000. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Mr. Tabata: They are moving along. Their budget was $1,120,000 and that was approved last year and they are moving along. Jason is by himself, and in defense to him, he just was named Chief in February and we are trying to fill his vacancy as expediently as possible. Councilmember Yukimura: Congratulations and probably condolences, Jason. Mr. Kagimoto: It felt like the latter in the recent days, but thank you. Councilmember Yukimura: I saw you late at night at the intersection of Haleilio Road troubleshooting and I thought, "Oh my," but thank you very much. Mr. Kagimoto: Thank you. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works—Operating & CIP Page 35 Committee Chair Kaneshiro: I think in the past and currently, Wastewater has done a good job of identifying the projects that they are going to do. Their R&M projects and repairs always end up in the millions, but they itemize each repair, so they do a good job on that. Councilmember Yukimura: They execute whatever they say they are going to do, so that is commendable. On page...it is about your electricity and water bills...I think it is the page right above the page I was talking about. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Page 347. Councilmember Yukimura: So your electricity bill is $1,500,000 I think. Mr. Tabata: Yes, that is for all of our facilities. Councilmember Yukimura: So sewage requires constant pumping and mechanical action that is run by the electricity, right? Mr. Kagimoto: Also at the treatment plant, there is a lot of equipment including...especially the ones if we are running ultraviolet, trying to create R-1 that draws a lot of electricity. Councilmember Yukimura: I know maybe ten (10) years ago, you put in capacitors or different things to optimize... Mr. Tabata: To correct the service factor because the air blowers in the facilities...we are moving towards more positive displacement, but many of them are fan blowers and they are death to the service factor for electricity for three phase power. Going to PD, doing the capacitor correction, has brought our service factor in line. Councilmember Yukimura: Which has moderated your use of electricity. Mr. Tabata: Makes the use more efficient. Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, exactly. Is there any more potential in reducing your electricity bill? Mr. Kagimoto: I think there is still a bunch of projects that we are working on specifically at Lihu`e and Wailua, where we are looking at replacing a bunch of existing equipment. The procedure forward is always to look at energy-efficient equipment when we replace equipment. Councilmember Yukimura: I was curious about the water. Maybe that $250,000 is not a big bill, but do you use a lot of potable water in your sewage treatment plants? Mr. Kagimoto: Yes, it is combination of depending on some equipment need, water, for them to run. Whether it is for the barrings or spraywater, washwater, they do maintenance. At some of our facilities, we do use reuse water to do so and some of the facilities, we do not have that capability. Overall, the better goal is to move towards those, but there are equipment or maintenance stuff that requires water. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works—Operating & CIP Page 36 Councilmember Yukimura: I see. Speaking of water, last night at the Malama Awards, I was talking to Chris Gampon and he is with the Outrigger Hotel and he said that his water bill for watering his lawn is a lot, even with the rain. At that point, we were talking about R-1 water, using recycled sewage effluent for things like lawn watering. So in your regional plan, can you folks think about that kind of system that can recycle water back? Mr. Tabata: Where is his facility? Kiahuna, right? Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, Kiahuna. Mr. Tabata: So he should approach HOH Utilities because they produce R-1. Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, but I am thinking if you do a regional system... Mr. Tresler: That was contemplated. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay, that is excellent because I know we are doing that in Waimea and I think Lihu`e has the potential for that. To be able to use non- potable water, which is sewage effluent that is treated, instead of potable water is a wonderful way to conserve water. The Mayor says that we are moving towards a more sustainable society. I am glad if that has already been included. Mr. Kagimoto: At the Lihu`e Treatment Plant, we are producing R-1 water and we send that water to Hoku`ala, so they use that to irrigate the golf course. Councilmember Yukimura: Here in Lihu`e. Mr. Kagimoto: Yes. Councilmember Yukimura: So more of that or at least including that in our future plans would be great. Thank you. Mr. Kagimoto: Yes. Councilmember Yukimura: I believe that is it. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: If that is it, we will move on to Auto Maintenance. Thank you, Jason. Mr. Kagimoto: Thank you. Mr. Tabata: So the General Fund part of the Auto Maintenance is at the end of the General Fund budget, page 205/206 is the detail. Councilmember Yukimura: You are using the page number that is on our budget, right? Mr. Tabata: Yes, you have it on your bottom right hand. Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, thank you. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 37 Mr. Tabata: Then his full highway funded budget is page 277, so we can start with that. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: I was going to start with the Highway Fund first on our pages 276/277. Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: Any vacancies? Mr. Tabata: We are ongoing trying to fill the vacancy for his supervisor. Councilmember Kagawa: Okay, 897. Mr. Tabata: And we have not been successful in having any luck. Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. Mr. Tabata: Recruitment is in progress. Councilmember Kagawa: I cannot see these... Mr. Tabata: The stumbling block has been a qualification exam that we have not been able to have people pass. Councilmember Kagawa: They cannot pass the qualification exam? Mr. Tabata: Yes. Councilmember Kagawa: Say like these folks that manage King Auto Center or Kuhio Motors... Mr. Tabata: If they would apply, I believe they would be able to pass, but they have not applied to my knowledge. Councilmember Kagawa: At $71,000 and twenty-one (21) days of vacation and twenty-one (21) days sick leave, I cannot see that nobody is interested. So those type of people have not applied? Mr. Tabata: Not to my knowledge. Mr. Tresler: They would not apply for that salary range. Councilmember Kagawa: That salary is not enough to attract that kind of level? Mr. Tabata: We post it on the variable range. Councilmember Kagawa: So you cannot fill that position...what are we going to do? Are we going to sit on this with the same salary or are we going to try and bump up the salary? March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works—Operating & CIP Page 38 Mr. Tresler: We went out and recruited and I understand that we have some applicants, so we are going through that process. Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. Mr. Tresler: We need to sit back and wait to see if we end up with qualified applicants. Councilmember Kagawa: How long has this thing been vacant? Mr. Tresler: One (1) year. Councilmember Kagawa: Only one (1) year? Okay. I would hope that at some point, if we just make the adjustment. We either justify more salary or lower qualifications or lower the test or something. DWAYNE ADACHI, Public Works Auto Superintendent: Dwayne Adachi, Public Works Automotive Division. Right now, we are out for recruitment, so we will see what happens. Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. Any other vacancies? Committee Chair Kaneshiro: 1342. Councilmember Kagawa: 1342. Anymore? Mr. Tabata: 1346 just became vacant because of retirement and for the Automechanic I, we will go out to recruit. Councilmember Kagawa: 1346 just retired. Council Chair Rapozo: What is the status of 1342? Mr. Tabata: He did retire... Mr. Tresler: No, we filled that one. Mr. Tabata: That one is filled, sorry. Council Chair Rapozo: 1342? Mr. Tresler: There are two (2) vacancies. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: 1342 is where the questions are at. Councilmember Kagawa: 1346 is filled? Mr. Tabata: Yes. Councilmember Kagawa: I know we had some questions the last time...is it in the job description to go and help other duties, given training? March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 39 Mr. Adachi: It is. Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. Mr. Adachi: True temporary assignment (TA). Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. Mr. Tresler: We worked together to do kind of a reorganization. There is the Auto Mechanics, Light Equipment, and through improving our communication processes with the Kaua`i Police Department(KPD), we made them our priority, because they are public safety and they are the largest fleet. So we had one (1) dedicated person before and now all of the mechanics are dedicated to primarily...well, prioritize and take care of KPD first and foremost, get them out, get their things fixed, and then jump on everything else. That has worked really well and they even complemented our shop. That has been working well to-date. Our shop side, we continue working with them. Those guys have been working hard, but they get buried by Solid Waste equipment. That is our priority besides Wastewater. So when anything goes down on there, they jump on that right away and get them out. It is a combination of the aging equipment and the number of equipment, so we will get into that when we talk about Solid Waste. That has been getting a lot better. We have a solution. The biggest problem I see is our downtime waiting for parts, that whole procurement section. These guys work hard and they can fix a lot of things, but the downtime, too, if we need to procure parts, order it, and then ship it in, the equipment sits around weeks at times because we are just waiting for parts. We have even recently been temporarily assigning these guys that have experience in heavy equipment from the light side up to help us when people are sick, out, or when we have heavy loads. We continue to look at some diversification and maybe looking at flexibility in that so that we can use our resources. One thing to point out that I have learned is that our bodies here have not grown, but yet our fleet has grown tremendously over the past decades. I think they have been able to do a lot more with less, dealing with a lot more with the same amount. I think our fleet replacement is real critical to that, too. It impacts our auto shop. Councilmember Kagawa: Is there any mechanism for auto shop to...I know when sometimes we need equipment to do a job, we go and rent. Is there any mechanism for auto if they become overburdened to send our cars...I mean the State sends cars to the Kauai Vehicle Service Center...the State can do it, so I figured we can do it at times. Mr. Adachi: We have tried. We have equipment out at private repair facilities, trying to be repaired, but some of the problems that we run into are electronic problems, so the same problems we have repairing them, the private sector has the same problems, too. We are trying our best just to address those issues. Mr. Tresler: We do look at that. If we are totally underwater, we will try to outsource things, but normally more things where it is something that is going to take too much time and effort and it is really difficult. Like you said, we formed it out and they have the same problems in the private side, too, the same challenges that we have. It is looked at, but we try to primarily take care of things within our auto shop. Councilmember Kagawa: For us, when we see these folks out at a baseball game or something, we see some of the workers and I ask them, "How is everything going at work?" They say, "Good, but the equipment takes a long time in the shop or the new March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works—Operating & CIP Page 40 equipment that we were promised did not come back and it is at the shop." So it seems like it is easy to blame the shop. Mr. Tresler: When I got involved, that was one thing I tried to stop, is everybody quickly dump on the shop and make the excuse and we are finding out now we are getting...that is not the reason and we are getting really proficient and communicating much better. So they can no longer use us as the scapegoat. The other thing, Councilmember Kagawa, is that there was a law in equipment replacement and we are only now catching it up, so now they are receiving the new equipment and we are hoping that that will better address downtime and rentals because our equipment is not working and so forth. It is all reflected in this budget as well. Councilmember Kagawa: So the heavy equipment...that section...is that fully staffed right now? Mr. Adachi: We are just trying to fill one position. Councilmember Kagawa: We have one (1) missing. Mr. Tabata: Yes. Councilmember Kagawa: With that size of staff and us with all of our new equipment onboard, is that sufficient? Mr. Adachi: Yes, we should be able to manage. Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. Thank you. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Council Chair Rapozo. Council Chair Rapozo: I am still trying to figure out 1342. What is the status of that one? Mr. Adachi: Right now, we are actively recruiting to fill that position. Council Chair Rapozo: According to this vacancy list, 3,056 days. Mr. Adachi: That initially was the Body and Fender dollar- funded position that one year ago, we decided to move over to the heavy equipment side and fill a vacancy or provide an employee in a much more needed area. So we used that position...we moved that position from the body shop into the heavy equipment side where we need more help and we are trying to fill that position now. Council Chair Rapozo: Do we have a body person? Mr. Adachi: We have one (1). Council Chair Rapozo: One (1)? Mr. Adachi: Yes. Initially,we had two(2). Right now, the need for the employees is more on the heavy equipment side than in the body shop. We can manage March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works—Operating & CIP Page 41 with one (1)body person right now and we are trying to get more help on the heavy equipment side. Council Chair Rapozo: How long have you folks been trying to recruit for this position? Mr. Adachi: For the last year. Council Chair Rapozo: One (1) year? Mr. Adachi: Yes. Council Chair Rapozo: There is nobody, no interest? Mr. Adachi: No, we are making progress. We should be able to fill that position soon. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Thank you. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: So the one that you are trying to fill now is the... Mr. Adachi: 1342. Councilmember Yukimura: 1342, okay. That is the one you were just talking about, but you also have been trying to... Mr. Adachi: 897. Councilmember Yukimura: You said that there have not been any takers who can pass the test. Mr. Adachi: We have people that apply and it is a challenge to get the right qualified applicant. Councilmember Yukimura: We definitely want a qualified applicant. It sounded like from the conversation that the salary is not high enough to attract the qualified person. Mr. Adachi: That would be our next option, which is to make an adjustment. Councilmember Yukimura: To raise the salary? Mr. Adachi: Yes. Councilmember Yukimura: Are you working with the Department of Human Resources (HR) to do that? Mr. Adachi: Yes. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works–Operating & CIP Page 42 Councilmember Yukimura: What is a comparable salary out in the private sector if you were looking for somebody who is qualified? Mr. Adachi: I think more than what we are offering now. Council Chair Rapozo: Is this not an entry level position though, like the very lowest level? Mr. Adachi: No... Committee Chair Kaneshiro: We are talking about the Repair Shop Supervisor, right? Councilmember Yukimura: Can I finish my questioning? Committee Chair Kaneshiro: No, but you are on Repair Shop Supervisor, right? Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. We know that it is not high enough—I need some idea of what kind of salary level we need to put out there. Mr. Adachi: Right now, we are trying to let this run its course the way it is now... Councilmember Yukimura: Through your process... Mr. Adachi: Right, the process that we have currently. When we get to that point where we need to go out on a range, then we need to do some research and find out exactly what would be a reasonable amount to offer. Councilmember Yukimura: I am not asking for setting purposes, I am just asking for ballpark purposes. What does Kuhio Motors or... Mr. Adachi: I could not tell you, Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. But you think that there is a process in County HR framework for raising the salary? Mr. Tresler: So we actually went out, recruited, and got some respondents. The test is challenging because it is a civil-service type of test and it is unique and has government processes, which not a lot of people are familiar with. We went out and recruited again and a game plan to see that if this is not successful, then we have "Plan B" to adjust, maybe considering a lower range, changing the classification and so forth, or increase the rate. That is the game plan. Councilmember Yukimura: If the civil-service process is not testing for the services we need then we should change the requirements. Mr. Tresler: The comments that I got back was that they could not get study material. I need to further research if there actually is study material for those types of exams. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 43 Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kawakami. Councilmember Kawakami: So the problem seems to be and appears to be twofold: one, it may be a pay issue, right? Or do we definitely know that it is a pay issue? There are other things that come with pay and that is what some of the other municipalities are marketing on, the twenty-one (21) days of sick-leave, we have a pension and healthcare. We are kind of marketing...depends on how we market, but the other side is the qualification side. Are they getting hung up? If it is because there are civil-service requirements in there, is a test on procurement involved in that testing? Are they required to know the procurement code? Mr. Tresler: I do not know. Councilmember Kawakami: Can we see the test? Mr. Tresler: Yes. Councilmember Kawakami: I would like to see a test and give it to a mechanic and see... Mr. Tresler: We have qualified people, but it is just that they need to take the test. They would not be allowed in through the application process if they did not have the basic qualifications. We can work on that as a follow-up. Councilmember Kawakami: That is hard if we are trying to attract somebody. We are going to get it from the private sector. Mr. Adachi: We are going to have to reevaluate. Right now, if we are not successful in going through the process that we are going in now, we might have to make adjustments. Mr. Tresler: HR and Janine has proposed an alternative solution. We are trying to let it run its course and fully vet it through and say, "Okay, this is not working." Mr. Adachi: We have been trying to fill the position for the past year. Now, we are finding out what the challenges are to find the right applicant and fill the position. If we are not successful this time, we may have to seek different alternatives. Councilmember Kawakami: I would be hesitant to go the route of just a knee-jerk reaction to say, "Let us lower the standards," because that could be very detrimental and expensive in the long run. Mr. Adachi: Yes. Councilmember Kawakami: I do want to know if there are requirements in that test that are over and above and beyond what is reasonable as far as getting this Repair Shop Supervisor. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works–Operating & CIP Page 44 Mr. Adachi: We are trying to identify that right now and probably after this round of recruitment, we might have a better idea of what really our problems are. Councilmember Kawakami: Yes, I know there is a shortage. We have a low unemployment rate. I was talking to somebody from the private sector and they cannot even find a diesel mechanic in the private sector. They are offering pay higher than the supervisory position at this point and they cannot even find diesel mechanics. That is the scary part. Our pipeline for talent is actually Kaua`i Community College (KCC). You get these kids that are not being interested in being diesel mechanics because it is too dirty or whatever, then how do we fill the pipeline moving forward? Mr. Adachi: That is true, that is one of our challenges right now. Councilmember Kawakami: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: I may have missed it, but who is the test coming from? Is it our own internal test? Mr. Tresler: HR, yes. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: We make it or is it coming from... Mr. Adachi: It is a test that we have given in the past. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Okay. I was just thinking that it is difficult for somebody to pass a test when they do not even know what the test is going to be on or there is no study guide for the test. Mr. Adachi: I am not really sure if that is the case because we have that position filled in the past and I am not sure if the test is much different from what we have given in the past. Like I said, we need to evaluate to identify exactly what the problem is. It might be a combination of things. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Okay. Mr. Adachi: We need to be sure before, like you said, knee-jerk reaction. Mr. Tresler: Clearly, if you are in the system, you have an advantage, right? You are familiar with the union stuff and those manager things. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kawakami. Councilmember Kawakami: This may be a question for a later time, but while it is out there, our test based on some sort of standard, some sort of federal standard—are we aligned with the other counties in the State of Hawaii as far as our test-taking and basic requirements? March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works –Operating & CIP Page 45 Mr. Adachi: From what I understand, the specs for the test and the recruitment is a statewide thing. I am not sure if we are administering the same test as the other islands are. Maybe Janine can speak to that. JANINE M.Z. Rapozo, Director of Human Resources: Good morning, Director of Human Resources, Janine Rapozo. The tests are based on competencies that we look at the in the class specifications for that particular position. In this particular test, they would be looking at basic reading, writing skills, supervisory. You are welcomed to come and look at the test. It is similar to how we were talking about the police test, in that why can people not pass? Part of it, what we are looking at now is just maybe the preparation for testing and having our applicants understand test-taking and some of the things that you need to do with test-taking. It is basically a multiple choice type of test, but there are some testing skills that people need to acquire to understand how to take tests. Everybody is different. Councilmember Kawakami: I have another question. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: On the testing? Councilmember Kawakami: Yes. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Okay. Councilmember Kawakami: If we identify a good candidate with a good attitude that can be trainable and they are running into this roadblock of test-taking, because I personally know myself that I could understand the content in school, but when it came for me to take a test, whether it was the Scholastic Aptitude Test (SAT)—I do not know why, I am a different learner—but I always fell short on the test-taking. There are some brilliant people that just cannot take tests. If we identify these people, is there anything on our end to point them into the direction of resources, whether it is the adult education program where they can pick up some basic proficiency skills? Do we go that far? Ms. Rapozo: We have not and it is something that I think Fire and Police were looking at doing just to prepare people for the test. We are working directly with them. We have not looked at doing that for some of other positions, but we certainly can look at that for some of our supervisory type of positions in the blue collar side. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Council Chair Rapozo. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. So we have been actively recruiting for this position for one (1) year? Ms. Rapozo: I do not believe that is correct because the position only got changed in July of last budget, so we would have started recruiting after July of last year. So it has not been out there for one (1) year. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. How long is one cycle from when the test is issued to when the applicant is told, "Sorry"? Ms. Rapozo: I think we post the position for at least ten (10) days out there and then we review applications and testing is scheduled. So depending on how many applicants we have to review, it could be as short as one (1) month or as long as a few months. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 46 Council Chair Rapozo: Just specifically this position, I guess what I really want to know is how many people took the test and how many people failed the test. Do we do that kind of assessment after we do a test? I know that the police has issues. It is sad when they fail over here and then they go to Honolulu and become a Hawaii Police Department (HPD) cop. That is I think kind of in line with what the questions being asked, do we want to be the toughest in the State? That makes no sense. I am just curious as to how many took the test and how many failed in this one. Mr. Adachi: I think part of the problem is that there might be a misconception. When people apply for this, and you say"Repair Shop Supervisor," a lot of the people think that mechanic skills is one of the most important things. But when you get to this position,yes,you need mechanic knowledge and you need experience in the automotive industry, but probably the majority of the test is administrative, supervisory/management skills, how you handle personnel issues, conflict, and those types of questions. As far as mechanical capability, the supervisor does not need that much mechanical capability, he needs knowledge of the automotive industry, but he is a manager and we are looking for a manager that can manage people in the automotive industry. Council Chair Rapozo: Again, how many took the test and how many failed? Ms. Rapozo: Going back to your question, I do not have the exact number and I was trying to get online and I was getting bumped out of that, there were less than five (5) that qualified. I know of only one (1) that qualified, so it could have been only one (1) and only one (1) took the test the first round. We are still going through the second round now. Council Chair Rapozo: So this is only the second cycle. Ms. Rapozo: As far as I am aware. Mr. Adachi: It has been less than one (1) year. Council Chair Rapozo: July...we are getting up to one (1) year. I guess I do not consider that actively recruiting if we are only in the second cycle. Ms. Rapozo: Yes. Before we actually started recruiting, I did meet with Mike to try to see if this was the appropriate level for that position or whether we should change it, so Public Works decided to stay with this level and that certainly went out the first time and now we are on the second cycle. Council Chair Rapozo: How are we promoting the job? Ms. Rapozo: It is online, on our website, in The Garden Island newspaper. Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, but most mechanics are not going to go to kauai.gov. How else? Are we going to job fairs? Are we going to KCC? Are we out and about in educating the people as far as, "This is not a mechanics test, this is a supervisory/management test." March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works—Operating & CIP Page 47 Ms. Rapozo: We do go out to all of the job fairs, like the County's one and KCC's one and whatever we can. From what I hear from staff, it is not as well attended as in the past. I do not know if because of the low unemployment. There are just so many factors coming into play right now. We will have to work with Public Works again after this cycle to see whether or not we need to re-describe or figure out a better way to fill that position. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Thank you. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: I have a question outside of the position...well, related to the position but not about recruiting...it is not for the supervisor position, but it is for that other one, the heavy equipment mechanic. Have you analyzed the source of the problems with heavy equipment and eliminated the issue of operator error, which can be addressed without a mechanic? Mr. Adachi: Are you referring to any specific type of equipment or just in general? Councilmember Yukimura: I am talking about heavy equipment. Mr. Adachi: Are you referring to refuse trucks specifically? Councilmember Yukimura: I do not know. Have you analyzed the problem? Are there certain types of trucks or equipment that keep coming in? Mr. Adachi: Right now for us, I would say that eighty percent (80%) of the workload is Solid Waste refuse trucks. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Mr. Adachi: We moved to the automated refuse collection with the side-loading refuse trucks to get away from liability issues. Councilmember Yukimura: Right. Mr. Adachi: When we had the two (2) people in the back of the truck and we were experiencing these liability issues, the mechanical side, the truck itself, was a simpler truck than it is today. The mechanical issues that we experience with those older trucks were less than what we have now. These side-load trucks have three (3) times as many...if you look at the workload, the mechanical problems and the failures, there is much more moving parts on these automated trucks. So that increases our workload. As the trucks get older, we experience more problems and they become more frequent with the older trucks. That is what we are experiencing now, because we had so much pressure on the fleet initially, when we started rolling out this automated refuse routes, initially, we had the spare ratio...we had one (1) spare for one (1)truck. Then we started getting ahead of ourselves and we employed more routes and we did not have enough equipment. So that put a lot of pressure on the fleet. So now, as soon as the truck goes down, we scramble to repair that truck because we have no backup units. That put more strain on every single piece of equipment we had. The wear and tear factor multiplied enormously on those trucks. Right now, we are trying to catch up and get back to the ratio that we want to be livable. We can March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works — Operating & CIP Page 48 have one (1) spare for every two (2) on the road or two (2) spares for every three (3) on the road would be better. We are trying to get back and we are slowly doing that through our equipment replacement program. We are making progress and catching up, but right now, I would say maybe for the past two (2) years, we have been underwater with that and barely able to keep up with the repair issues. Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you. Any operation can experience it. If you have rapid expansion, which is what you could call our effort to go islandwide with the automated trash pickup, I can understand that scenario that you just described. So some of the solution is getting those ratios back in order. Even like Celia's transportation issue, having more backup buses, because these operations have to keep going, right? Mr. Adachi: Yes, but one thing to remember with the refuse truck is that it is a corrosive environment. The trucks get worn out from the inside and the outside. The life of one (1) refuse truck is about six (6) years realistically. It takes us about one (1) year or more to get a replacement, because the truck takes about three hundred (300) days to manufacture and with the procurement process and everything, after we run its course, it is over three hundred (300) days that it takes to get a truck replaced, over one (1) year. If we say six (6) years and we start the process, by the time the truck is eight (8) years old, realistically, we need to take that truck off the line and put the new truck in place. We have not been able to do that as we should be. We have had to keep the older trucks running just so that we can make ends meet. Councilmember Yukimura: I think that is what happens, like in Transportation, too, if they do not have constant replacement... Mr. Adachi: That is the challenge of running the fleet. Councilmember Yukimura: So this automated pick up has not even been six (6) years though. Mr. Adachi: Well, we have trucks that are...we first bought trucks in 2009... Councilmember Yukimura: The automated? Mr. Adachi: Right. We have those trucks in service yet. Councilmember Yukimura: It is more than six (6) years. Mr. Adachi: Yes. Mr. Tabata: Also, we have one (1) truck outsourced and it has been sitting there and makes me crazy every time I drive by it, it cannot get fixed. If we had that, that would definitely help serve solving some of the problems. Councilmember Yukimura: Is it worthwhile to actually purchase another truck? Mr. Tabata: That is what we are doing. Mr. Adachi: That is what we are trying to do. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works—Operating & CIP Page 49 Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. So you are trying to get the cycle back in place. Mr. Tresler: As I mentioned earlier, we had a law and we actually have two (2) new trucks that we received. You approved two (2) new trucks that are in the process of being ordered, but once you order them and procure them, then you wait three hundred (300) days including shipping and delivering and you go through this process. Then we put in for two (2) more. We hope to expedite that, so we really need those six (6) trucks here in the next year and a half (1.5) or two (2) years. I can tell you that for Solid Waste, in trying to jump in and trying to help operations and working with shops, it is no way to live and operate. It is good when everything is working and in an instant you have everything going down and it is just chaos. I give those people credit, they have gotten real proficient in dealing with chaos, but again, that is no way to live, work, and operate. Those replacements are critical. Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you. That gives us a much better picture of the situation. It is not only about having mechanics, which is, but it is also that cycle of replacement that is kind of important. Mr. Adachi: One more thing, earlier, we were talking about outsourcing and sending trucks out for repair into the private sector. For us, we work on these trucks every day, so the mechanics that we have are familiar with the equipment and they know pretty much from working on them repetitiously, they have a lot of experience. There is nobody else on the island with refuse trucks, the type that we have anyway. When we send them out, it is something new to the repair shops that you send them out to. So they go through this learning curve and try to get familiar with the equipment, but we are using them because we have so much pressure and we cannot keep up with the workload, so we are trying to outsource things to help us, but yet, we experience that problem with the private sector not being able to...they go through the same problems like us, trying to learn and trying to fix as we go. Councilmember Yukimura: So ideally, it is having the mechanics in-house and the replacement schedule in Solid Waste that would... Mr. Adachi: Right, and the parts available. Councilmember Yukimura: The parts available, the problem is the days to get it here to the island? Mr. Adachi: It is the procurement process in itself. We can streamline the process and make things easier for us. Councilmember Yukimura: There must be a way to streamline. Mr. Tresler: We are working on that right now. Councilmember Yukimura: Good. There was a lawyer at the University of Hawai`i (UH) that specialized in procurement and then she left before I could...we have to invent new ways of procurement somehow. Ernie, can you help them? You are very inventive. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works –Operating & CIP Page 50 Mr. Tresler: For our equipment, we lease stuff, too, so there is another added step, because we need to procure the lease of the purchase of equipment. Just by nature of having to procure something else in addition to the equipment, that adds some time. But we are going push that and work with Ernie and Purchasing to speed that timeline up. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you very much. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: By no means, do not take my advice as saying to send out the rubbish trucks to privatize. I meant that you privatize the ones that we have, like the backhoes and the dump trucks, but the kind of equipment that the private sector fixes every day, that is the kind of stuff you send out. Do not send out the stuff that only we know how to fix. Mr. Adachi: I understand. Councilmember Kagawa: When you factor in this higher pay, I want to make sure that Janine factors in that most private employees, like at King Auto Center, they do not have twenty-one (21) days of sick leave and vacation. So we have to factor down the salary because when you get twenty-seven (27) more days off a year, I think there is a value in that number. Mr. Adachi: The fringe benefits. Councilmember Kagawa: Yes. So rather than the $100,000 at King Auto Center might be only $85,000 at the County, because you have one (1) month of off days. Mr. Adachi: That is the part where the applicants really do not realize. Councilmember Kagawa: We have to promote that and say, "Wow, you have almost two (2) months off." The other thing is what is the role that we play with the Police now? I know last year we talked about the vehicles being old and causing a lot of work in your office. So Glenn is still at Police? Mr. Adachi: Glenn is gone, he retired. Mark Scribner took his place. Councilmember Kagawa: We got a replacement? Mr. Adachi: Yes. Mr. Tresler: That is what I was talking about earlier—we met with them and we set up communication protocol. Mark came onboard, with us communicating with them clearly, working well with him, our whole auto and light equipment staff prioritizing KPD has worked out really well. From them going like they wanted to do it themselves to praising us at the shop, so I think that it is successful and those guys have been working hard at making that work. Councilmember Kagawa: So Mark does some stuff? March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 51 Mr. Tresler: Yes, he facilitates... Mr. Adachi: Mark is the coordinator. Councilmember Kagawa: Like for a basic oil change, do they do that? Mr. Adachi: No... Councilmember Kagawa: They just coordinate bringing them down? Mr. Adachi: Right and he gets the parts for us. Councilmember Kagawa: So he helps brings the parts with the car so it facilitates them and it gets fixed fast? Mr. Adachi: Yes. Mr. Tresler: We have Robin Shimabukuro as a supervisor in that area, too. He has been doing really well. Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. Thank you. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Any further questions? If not, we will move on to Solid Waste. Thank you. Mr. Adachi: Thank you. Mr. Tresler: I think I want to mention that we are working on this procurement that would really help us in procuring parts. O`ahu does it and basically you bid this out, someone comes in and puts in-store, like for example, a Napa in-store or Carquest store on your property. So they hold the inventory in and they have a greater network of resources to get parts in quicker and at a lower cost, too. I am working on that personally. It is a really good initiative that I think will really make some positive changes at the shop. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Sounds good. Mr. Adachi: Mike is being a big help for us. He is working with us and we are trying to procure the services of an outside entity to help us manage our parts procurement and expedite parts for us. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Thank you. Mr. Tresler: We have our Solid Waste team. Rick is out sick. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: We are on Solid Waste disposal. Mr. Tabata: Rick is out. We presently made an offer to a candidate for the Solid Waste Chief position and we have to keep searching. Right now, Mike and I will attempt to answer some questions and we have Donn, who is taking care of the March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works—Operating & CIP Page 52 Solid Waste CIP Projects, and Allison, the recycling. Mike and I have been pinch-hitting in the operation side. We can answer whatever questions you might have. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: So you said Rick? Mr. Tabata: Rick Renaud is the Superintendent of Operations, so that is the refuse, the transfer stations, and the landfill. Councilmember Kagawa: Can one of you answer this question? The compactors, I have been told, are really, really old and they came from Taiwan or something, and I have heard that it breaks down a lot and it is all rusted and rotten. What are we going to do? Mr. Tabata: Part of the solution is what Donn is working on. As part of the Notice of Violation and Order(NOVO), I would say mitigation, Donn is working on the design and permitting with the Department of Health. We are really close, but I will let him explain. DONN KAKUDA, Civil Engineer IV: Donn Kakuda, Civil Engineer IV. Councilmember Kagawa: Can you also explain where we have these old compactors? Mr. Kakuda: Okay. We have three (3) compactors: Kapa`a, Hanalei, and Hanapepe. The plan is that we are going to get rid of the Kapa'a one, scrap it for parts, and continue to move forward at Hanapepe and Hanalei with the compactor in the meantime. Councilmember Kagawa: Does all three (3) function? Mr. Kakuda: I think Hanapepe's one has to be fixed a little bit. Mr. Tresler: They are all functioning. Kapa'a just went down recently, and that is another thing that the auto shop deals with, because we have to go out there and repair those types of things as well. Kapa'a is back online working. It needs some attention, but again, the question is, do we spend this large amount of money fixing this thing, and then if we are going to ultimately replace it. That is the question. Councilmember Kagawa: So when it is down, what is the alternative? Do we manually compact or something? Mr. Tresler: No, we bring refuse trucks out there and they... Mr. Tabata: We bring the old backload trucks and we fill those and then they transfer. Councilmember Kagawa: So it is not compacted then when the compactor is not working? March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 53 Mr. Tresler: No, they are compacting in the truck, right? The rear-load ones was the one that had the three-men crew. They put rubbish in and it is self-compacting within the truck. Once that fills out, the other one is there, so that is how we temporarily operate the transfer station. Councilmember Kagawa: Oh, we are using the old rubbish trucks? Mr. Tresler: So we are still using those things. Councilmember Kagawa: Yes, they are the backup for our compactor. Mr. Tresler: In fact, we installed flippers on some of them. So when we are really in bad shape with the automatic ones, we put those out and we can still flip those in the back. Councilmember Kagawa: So if Kapa'a is down, we are using these rubbish trucks; do these rubbish trucks have to go all the way to Kekaha? Mr. Tabata: They transfer it to Lihu`e. Councilmember Kagawa: They will dump it on the ground and then Lihu`e will...so Lihu`e does not have a compactor? Mr. Tabata: No. That is the future for Kapa`a, as Donn mentioned, we will top-load, and then the next place would be in Hanalei as the next priority. Mr. Tresler: The new equipment is reflected in there to order to be ready when these upgrades are made, we are going to have the right equipment. Mr. Kakuda: At Lihu`e, we do compact with the backhoe a little bit. It is not the same as the compactor that we have, but we do push it down to save space. Councilmember Kagawa: Is that the newest technology the way we are doing it? Are those compactors outdated because of the troublesome nature of fixing it? Mr. Kakuda: It comes down to what you want to do. Some people have self-compacting trailers, but those are really expensive, so some people just toss it and the trailers compact themselves and they go that way. Top-load is doable, but it is the same thing...it is expensive because we have to roof it. It all comes down to what we are willing to pay for it. Councilmember Kagawa: Are we going to keep on evaluating and make sure that we find the most efficient one that we can research out there that fits Kaua`i? Mr. Kakuda: I executed the contract for the design for the fixes. So just last week, I had a kickoff meeting with the consultants, so I told when what we were thinking and obviously we have to stay within the budget and stuff like that, so we are going to work that out and we are just at the start of that. They will get the conceptual and I will discuss it with Lyle. Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. Sounds good. Thank you. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 54 Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Council Chair Rapozo. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. What are we doing about all of the trash carts down by the airport? Mr. Tabata: Those carts are spares. Council Chair Rapozo: Some of them look busted up. Mr. Tabata: In the budget, we are requesting for replacement parts. Council Chair Rapozo: I see fifty (50) refuse carts and $50,000 under... Mr. Tabata: And some parts. Mr. Tresler: We repair some of this. Council Chair Rapozo: What? Mr. Tresler: We repair some of those. Council Chair Rapozo: I am looking under disposal, you have $50,000 for carts and under collections you have another $50,000 for 96-gallon carts and parts. Mr. Tabata: Yes. Council Chair Rapozo: What do we do with the old ones? Are we just going to leave them there? Mr. Tabata: The parts are going to be used to repair them. Council Chair Rapozo: Some of them are not usable. Mr. Tresler: We cannot recycle those, so eventually, they will make their way to the landfill, but we are trying not to...we are trying to maximize the reuse of those. Council Chair Rapozo: For the new ones that you are buying, are we going to be storing them? I do not want to see this happen again. That is a lot of money down there that we are just wasting away. Mr. Tabata: They did not get placed into service. Council Chair Rapozo: Oh, they are going to go straight to the... Mr. Tabata: Yes. Mr. Tresler: If they are in that service area, they have the option to pay or not. So as they pay, they sign-up and we deliver and issue the carts and deal with damages, too. It is an ongoing process. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works–Operating & CIP Page 55 Council Chair Rapozo: I was just shocked to see... Mr. Tresler: Plus too, we are budgeting for some new subdivisions as well in there. As they get permitted and being built, we are going to have to service them, whether it is Pikake or the new Puakea Project, and then out in Kohea Loa and stuff like, around the island. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Any other questions? Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: Welcome aboard, Donn. Mr. Kakuda: I have been here for a couple of years now, almost a couple of years. Councilmember Yukimura: A couple of years, excuse me. Good to have you in your new position. Back to the compactors at the transfer stations, in working with the consultants in determining what the best design of the repairs is; is lifecycle costing considered? Mr. Kakuda: We consider all of that. We have to take into account the NOVO, we have to take into account what we think going forward...obviously, I think Kapa'a is where the most money is going to be spent—that is our busiest transfer station. So that will get the most improvements. When it comes to the compactors, the lifecycle cost...it is just one of those things. In Hanalei, we do not have too much space over there, so it would be hard to switch to something that is not a compactor, so that is part of the thing. If we had tons of space, then maybe we could do something. For example, Hawaii Island (inaudible) $5,000,000 for just one (1) transfer station. It is real nice. To answer your question, we try to look at everything, but obviously the main one is to make sure that we answer the Department of Health NOVO stuff first. Councilmember Yukimura: When you think about these transfer stations working, it is like...how long of a cycle do you see them serving? Mr. Kakuda: I am assuming that they are going to be there for my lifetime. I do not know if we are going to ever close down a transfer station. You folks have to let me know if you are planning to do that so that I can plan for that. Councilmember Yukimura: Well, we are trying to make a transition over time to zero waste and that is a long, long way off. Zero waste is not totally zero waste...there has to be some coordination between transfer stations and the issue of recycling centers or recycling transfer stations. We are trying to switch to diversion rather than trash, so we have these satellite solid waste management facilities and are we going to turn them into...is our plan going to be where it can be like a one-stop where they come to dump trash, but also come to recycle? Mr. Tresler: Councilmember Yukimura, we presently do that. Every transfer station collects metals, greenwaste, other refrigerants, white goods, and stuff. Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, I know that. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 56 Mr. Tresler: That is part of the design concept, especially if you are talking about Princeville and how some of that is going to be put under roof. Councilmember Yukimura: I think I raised the question before whether you need a new site and whether that site is really going to be conducive for the next twenty (20) years, because you do not want to put in a lot of investment, and then switch to another place. But the other thing that I am trying to convey is that if you see diversion as an increasing alternative, then are you going to have the setup? Right now, it is kind of makeshift. Are you planning for a setup where you really are going to be able to do retail recycling that people can come and get deposit and return and all of those other recycling activities there, as well as trash? Mr. Kakuda: Well, to answer your question regarding the first part, if we do head towards zero waste...right now, our diversion is forty-three percent (43%) or forty-four percent (44%)...if we start getting close to seventy percent (70%), then we will start planning for it, because that means that we are getting closer to one hundred percent (100%). Councilmember Yukimura: Well, you have to plan for it before you get there. In order to get there, that is our goal. Mr. Kakuda: I would like to pass fifty percent (50%) first before we seriously consider it. Councilmember Yukimura: You know that that is our official goal, right? Mr. Kakuda: Yes. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. So seventy percent (70%), you cannot get there without planning for it. Mr. Tabata: I understand exactly what you are saying, Councilmember Yukimura, but we, right now, under the violation notice need to address our present mode. So what we are focusing on is addressing those exact needs to get us out of this drowning situation, and the future...it bears looking at, but right now, Donn's charge is to get us out of violation. I think it is unfair to charge him with looking at the future when I am asking him to help us deal with where we are right now. Councilmember Yukimura: I understand, Lyle. The thing is I found in county government is that you have to do both at the same time because you cannot wait for the future; it is already coming. Mr. Tabata: We are doing our best. Councilmember Yukimura: I know you are doing your best. Mr. Tabata: We received some preliminary questions and maybe Allison can help us with keeping in step with the Solid Waste Management Plan, which we have put in $250,000 to update the plan, because it is due at this point, and talk a little bit more about our diversion programs, where we are headed, and some of the challenges we are facing right now. I hear you and we do have satellite operations throughout the community. Part of what we are trying to do in siting the new landfill is also to create exactly March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 57 what you are mentioning, someplace where we can bring all of our different recyclables, commodities, and so forth, to the refuse recovery park, which is where you can stop by on your way to the landfill. Until we get there and we start constructing the new landfill, we will maintain these satellite facilities the best we can. Councilmember Yukimura: Lyle, most of the people will not be going to the central landfill, except from Lihu`e, where we do not want them to come from Kekaha and the north shore. So that is why I am asking about the satellite facilities that are in Hanapepe and north shore and Kapa`a. That is why I am asking about it. I am not contradicting your plans for Lihu`e, but we clearly are not going to ask the people of Kekaha to come and dump their trash in the landfill. So part of the system is that people come to the transfer stations to drop their trash and ultimately drop their recycling until we covert to curbside recycling. Mr. Tabata: That system will be maintained in the present designs. Councilmember Yukimura: That is why I am asking the question. Mr. Tabata: Yes. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: So we are all in agreement? Councilmember Yukimura: I have not heard the answer yet. Mr. Tabata: I said that we will maintain those satellite operations... Councilmember Yukimura: My question was not about maintaining it, it was about how you are planning it for the future. Mr. Tabata: I have not approached that. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Any other questions? Councilmember Yukimura: I think Councilmember Chock asked a question. Did you ask it already? Councilmember Chock: Do you have a response? Mr. Tabata: I said that I have not begun to investigate how we will deal with it in the future. I believe right now we are trying to get out of the NOVO. Donn's charge is to design to protect what we need to meet the Department of Health's needs. We are about to embark on reevaluating and updating our Integrated Solid Waste Management Plan and that is the $250,000 I cited, which is in the budget. Hopefully, that will then help us to be the start to look towards the future. Councilmember Chock: I appreciate that. I think the question was really about based on what we saw in the Mayor's presentation about there being an interest and wanting to look into some diversion opportunities. My question is really about what those are and I think that when we can hear from Allison, then we can really look at what the March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works—Operating & CIP Page 58 progress is, what we can expect in this next budget year, if it is still there. Like I said, I totally get where the priority is and I appreciate that. I just want to be realistic about what it is we are going to accomplish. Mr. Tabata: Thank you. I can turn it over to Allison then if you would like to go... Committee Chair Kaneshiro: No, we are still on disposal. I do not know who is going to answer this, but while we are on the matter of the Integrated Solid Waste Management Plan Update, can you explain where it was, when it was last done, and what the update is going to entail? ALLISON FRALEY, Solid Waste Program Development Coordinator: For the record, Allison Fraley. We did the work from 2006 until 2009. It did take a while to get that plan completed. Then it was adopted in 2010. There is a state law, Hawai`i Revised Statutes (HRS) 342g-24, which requires the counties to revise and update their plans every ten (10) years. So next fiscal year, we want to get it started. With the timing, we figure that we will start the procurement process and by the time we are doing the plan, it would be under the next Administration. As far as where we are at with the current plan, we have done everything we can to follow the plan considering budget restraints, staffing issues, and other issues. We have been following it. We looked at what we will have to do to update it, the different things that are in statute, and then what we should do. To do it in the $250,000, I think, should cover everything we need to do to update. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: How can you say that you have been doing everything possible when the Materials Recovery Facility (MRF) is still nonexistent? Ms. Fraley: I said considering funding issues. Councilmember Yukimura: Well, if we are paying $500,000 for certain things and we are not paying $400,000 for a design of the MRF, then I do not think we can use budget as an excuse. Ms. Fraley: Well, the plan has a lot of elements. So we have implemented many of the elements in the plan. Councilmember Yukimura: The current rate of recycling has been forty-three percent (43%) for how many years? Ms. Fraley: For about three (3) years. Councilmember Yukimura: What does the plan project if... Ms. Fraley: The plan actually does not have a projection. The seventy percent (70%) came from the zero waste resolution. There is no projection in the plan. Councilmember Yukimura: But it was seventy percent (70%) by when? Ms. Fraley: 2023. a . March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works—Operating & CIP Page 59 Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. So it is like the Governor's proposal for renewable energy by...what is the deadline? 2030? But Kaua`i Island Utility Cooperative (KIUC)'s is earlier I think. How are we moving towards that seventy percent (70%)? Mr. Tabata: If I may interject here, in what I said earlier, we are facing some challenges in recycling and you can blame me for putting a hold on some of moving forward because I am wrestling, literally, with determining how we are going to solve some of these challenges without us having to pour more money into the solutions. Part of it is a work in progress. It is a tough one to wrestle with right now. Many of our recycling...I would like to call them "commodities' values have significantly dropped. So Allison is working very hard to try and seek solutions with the industry right now. We do not have the magic pill right now, but she is searching for options and working with all of the contacts she has out there. We are doing our best. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kawakami has a follow-up. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay, so Lyle, if you are trying to find solutions without money, why would you put $60,000,000 into a landfill then? How can we put $60,000,000 into a landfill and not put $500,000 into recycling and diversion? Mr. Tabata: Because I do not have any place to send the recycles now. I need to find a solution to the end of the tunnel that I see at Kekaha. Councilmember Yukimura: You do not have a place for aluminum and paper? Mr. Tabata: Paper is a problem right now. Cardboard is a problem. We have multiple issues out there that we are trying to wrestle with and find solutions for. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kawakami. Councilmember Kawakami: Some of the solutions are quite frankly out of our hands. The market for recyclables, we really cannot control that. China does not want it. If other places do not want it, then we have no market to sell it to, so some of these things are out of our hands. I do know that one of the other factors that the legislature is looking at is increasing the deposit fee, I believe, which would increase diversion as well just by simple economics. But once again, it puts a burden on the consumer to have to pay more. Did we not also try to explore curbside recycling? The thought was if you make it easy and convenient, people are more likely to participate in this thing, but that became cost-prohibitive as well. So some of the low-hanging fruit, things that I have heard you folks accomplish, are really moving us towards that goal and I give you kudos for doing that. As far as the next evolution of increasing diversion, we have to identify what the problem commodities are, like cardboard is an issue. Is glass not an issue as well? Mr. Tabata: Exactly. Councilmember Kawakami: I mentioned it time-and-time again, is there not some sort of use for this glass? When homeowners are building their homes and they are laying their pipes, can they not utilize this glass so that when they are digging, it is an March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 60 identifier as far as where their infrastructure, powerlines, and plumbing is laying? When we are doing County CIP projects, can we not utilize this glass into some of our projects? Even on some of our infrastructure improvements and Safe Routes to School initiatives, can we utilize some of this glass as part of that solution? Mr. Tabata: Those are solutions; however, they are not in sufficient quantity to complete a project. So say I use only so much linear feet of fill bedding for a plumber to use, but he would not have material to complete. So whenever you build something, you want to use uniform materials, so that is what I understand is not available to the construction industry to count on and bank on being available full-time. Those are some of the logistical things that we are having to deal with. Councilmember Kawakami: So we do not have the supply to meet the demand? Mr. Tabata: Exactly. The amount of glass that there is in available stock right now would not even complete a project. Councilmember Kawakami: So what are we doing with our glass now? Mr. Tabata: I understand that the recycler is holding it. Ms. Fraley: I can answer that. So the 11I-5 glass, the State has provided an incentive to recyclers to ship it off-island or ship it to the mainland to make bottled glass. They pay more for the commodity and that is what happens to all the HI-5 glass and that is a lot of the glass that is recycled on Kaua`i, because there is that economic incentive. So the non-HI-5 glass or everything that comes in through the Kauai Recycles program is crushed in a crusher at Garden Isle Disposal's facility and they do use it for various projects with businesses and with residential homeowners. Their cost of crushing the glass is the biggest challenge for them. It is very expensive to operate that machine and keep it maintained. Now, they have to keep the stockpiles separate...they always had to, but they have to improve the area where they are stockpiling. So they have a lot of the challenges that cost a lot of money. Somebody has to pay for it, so we pay a premium in our Kauai Recycles program and we are hopeful that advance disposal fee, which is the non-HI-5 glass, would be raised at some point. That program could be improved, because it is just not covering the cost of the processers on all the islands to do the work that they need to do to manage glass. I have to say that glass is a problem nationwide, not just in Hawai`i. The State Auditor recently came out with a report on glass processing and trying to use it in Hawai`i and all of the challenges. I would be happy to E-mail you that report so you can see. It was a couple of years ago, but it is a really complicated issue. With the other commodities, mixed paper is the biggest problem right now. Cardboard is going down, but mixed paper...our recycler is having to actually...first of all, they could not ship it anywhere because China said"no" so there was emerging markets throughout the world where they are working with their broker to be able to send it there. They had to rent space to be able to store it until they could ship it, and then recently they were able to ship at a loss. So it was the first time ever, since I have been working with our recycler, that they have had to pay to send paper off. That is a little scary and we are hoping that does not continue, but that is how it is right now, that it is a negative twenty dollars (-$20) a ton for mixed paper to be recycled. Councilmember Kawakami: That is a money loser if you ever heard of one. Ms. Fraley: Yes. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works—Operating & CIP Page 61 Committee Chair Kaneshiro: We have a couple of follow-up questions. Council Chair Rapozo. Council Chair Rapozo: Are we going to revisit waste-to-energy again? Mr. Tresler: With the Mayor's comments, he always alludes to, and he has made it real clear, about siting a new landfill. Also in that was this resource recovery park and my understanding is that part of that vision is to have that MRF there and all of these things to recycle and reduce the amount of waste stream going to the landfill. But to answer your question, I have always been a proponent of waste-to-energy and I know that this Administration...I actually worked for an energy company for a while and did sewer, wastewater, and energy, so it has always been talked about. Actually, even tried to do RFPs and RFIs, and to me, it is an answer worth exploring, but I do not think it is going to happen in the rest of this Administration's time. So in the future going forward, that would be the next administrators or the next mayor to consider. Can it be a viable option? I believe so, but then again, let us not even get into this whole discussion... Council Chair Rapozo: Well, we need to get into the discussion because China is not taking the goods. Mr. Tabata: What pretty much stopped us was critical mass and scalability. So the critical mass, meaning the volume of product to sustain an operation, and to have a facility or an operation come in that will be scalable as the community grows. Council Chair Rapozo: We have had this discussion, Lyle. We have had this discussion, you, myself, and Councilmember Kagawa, and we have identified some the technologies that are doable. Mr. Tabata: When we put out the RFP... Council Chair Rapozo: The RFP was withdrawn. Mr. Tabata: Originally, when we did the RFI, these technologies did not... Council Chair Rapozo: What I am saying is that several years ago, I spoke of San Francisco's problem that, in fact, they have waste-to-energy and they had an ordinance that said they could not burn plastic, and then China or whoever was buying it, did not buy it. They had to go out and rent warehouse spaces in San Francisco because they could not do anything with it. It is just a matter of time when these commodities all of a sudden are not commodities, nobody is buying them. Now what? We did not anticipate additional plastic, additional cardboard, and additional paper that is going to end up in the landfill, which is going to shorten the life. So I think at some point, we have to be prepared. Some people may not believe that there is a technology out there that can work on Kaua`i, but I happen to believe there are. Mike, you are very familiar with the industry that there are scalable technologies today. I do not care what anybody says. There is the technology that can operate 25, 50, 100, 250,000 ton a day facility. It is going on right now. I am not sure what we are going to do. The resource recovery park is a great idea, but it is going to be a while before we open that up. As we start to put more recyclables into that landfill because there is nowhere to send them, we are going to shorten the life. I think that is just a discussion that we have to have at some point, whether it is waste-to-energy or whatever technology we are talking about. We have to deal with it because it is going to be a problem. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 62 Mr. Tabata: I agree. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: We have been discussing this for at least fifteen (15) years. We have had two (2) studies that we have paid a lot for. Sure, there are these facilities that can take small quantities, but the cost is far more than our community can support, unless you want to pay sky-high taxes. Hawai`i Island went through similar process and they found the same thing. We have done that twice now, three times. It is not a solution, so my question is... Mr. Tresler: Councilmember Yukimura... Councilmember Yukimura: May I ask my question first? My question is if the 11I-5 glass is being shipped to the mainland, why can we not ship the other glass to the mainland as well? Ms. Fraley: The price that they get at per ton for the mainland glass is $7 a ton, so it is just not...it is much cheaper to keep it on-island than it is to ship it, but they get $0.03 per container through the 11I-5 program, so that is why. Councilmember Yukimura: That helps to offset? Ms. Fraley: That helps, so that is why it goes there. I just want to mention that I am telling you the present scenario for these commodities. They have always been very volatile and fluctuate a lot. I believe it is the worst that it is going to be because markets are emerging that they will pick up. We have had discussions with Garden Isle Disposal's broker, who they work very closely with. It is just a really bad time right now, so I do not think that this is going to be permanent or that it is going to get worse, based on my discussions with the recycler. Of course, it is totally an unknown at this point. Nothing like this has ever happened in the history of recycling, that China has closed its doors. Councilmember Yukimura: Why has China closed its doors? Ms. Fraley: Because most of the commodity they were getting, and it is very unlike ours, was from MRFs from the mainland where people are just throwing everything into their bin, treating it like a trash bin... Councilmember Yukimura: Dirty MRFs? Ms. Fraley: No, clean MRFs that are accepting dirty products. So they were getting really bad material and just taking it. China was like, "We are over this" and they implemented several strategies. They had the green fence, then the sword, and now no more is how they have proceeded through trying to screen this material. Councilmember Yukimura: If a community could get clean material... Ms. Fraley: We do... March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works—Operating & CIP Page 63 Councilmember Yukimura: Somebody should go to China and make a deal. At some point, they are going to have to yield. They have cut down all of their trees and they do not have any paper. Ms. Fraley: Well, they are planning to recycle on their own, because they do not do that. They are like, "Why do we not just take our own stuff and recycle it instead of taking everybody else's trash," is the way that they have been looking at it. Councilmember Yukimura: Good for them. Ms. Fraley: The industry is trying to look at the positives here that we do need to clean...not us...because Kaua`i, the broker told us, has very clean materials because of the way we accept it and because of the good job that our recycler does, but the United States mainland has been sending bad material, so it is an opportunity for them to clean up their act and get better product out there where they are processed. Councilmember Yukimura: It is quite possible because China will not be the only buyer of recycled paper that if... Ms. Fraley: Right. We are seeing Vietnam and other places are starting...we are shipping it there...we have alternate places where we are shipping it. Councilmember Yukimura: If we had the MRF in operation now, when the prices were high, we could have offset a low period now. There is a technology that is now converting glass to a high-valued commodity of sand. There is going to be, at some point, a shortage of sand worldwide and we are paying $300 a ton to import golf course sand from China. If this whole State committed to glass and got this technology, we would be creating a truly recycling business that could support itself. That is the potential of recycling if we do the proper R&D. For a country that has sent a man to the moon, why can we not figure that out? In fact, we know of a technology that is in existence, but we would have to find it and make it work. My other question is... Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Are you moving on to a different question? Councilmember Yukimura: No. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: I have a follow-up question also. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay, go ahead. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kagawa. We are coming up on lunch. We have to take our break in ten (10) minutes or less, so let us try to finish up the round of questioning here and we will come back to disposal. Councilmember Kagawa: I cannot disagree more with Councilmember Yukimura on everything that is worded out, because I know that in order for a MRF to work, we have to have a market that is not outrageously expensive so we do not waste taxpayer money trying to show that we are saving the earth by not burying it or what have you, when it is hypocrisy. You are going to ship whatever you recycle across the ocean using fossil fuel to get there and wherever the manufacturing plant is to turn that dirty recycled material into a productive material requires burning energy and fossil fuel as well and emissions that got into the atmosphere. Wherever you go, there are environmental concerns and this zero March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 64 waste is not free of waste; there are emissions and waste of energy, right? It is in anything, whether you go waste-to-energy or a MRF. I want to just keep it real. We have to look at all options. Unless the market is still to support our recycling efforts, then the MRF is not yet proven to be something that we should move forward with, right? Committee Chair Kaneshiro: With that, we will take our lunch break and come back. We have people leaving, coming and going, 1:30 p.m. and 3:00 p.m. and I would like to get through Solid Waste and Highways today, if possible. Then we will come back on Tuesday with just CIP. That is the goal. We will see where we get, but that is a goal. Let us take our lunch break and come back at 1:30 p.m. There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 12:33 p.m. The meeting reconvened at 1:31 p.m., and proceeded as follows: Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Welcome back. We are still on disposal. Do we have any more questions on disposal so far as the numbers go? I know we had a pretty long discussion on our future options or things that we could do. Any more questions on the numbers? Councilmember Chock: I have one, "State Solid Waste Surcharge, $30,000." Can you explain that? Committee Chair Kaneshiro: What page is that on? Page 307 on the bottom under "Other Services." Ms. Fraley: It is a State-mandated payments per ton that we have to pay the State...I do not know what it is off the top of my head...twenty cents ($0.20) or something like per ton. Councilmember Chock: What do they do? Ms. Fraley: What? Councilmember Chock: What do they do? What do we get from that? Ms. Fraley: That goes to help them administer their programs for managing solid waste. Councilmember Chock: Okay. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Any other questions? Councilmember Kagawa: What is the total that we collect with tipping fees and the rubbish cans, the bottom line total that we collect? Ms. Fraley: Our revenues? Councilmember Kagawa: Yes. Ms. Fraley: The Solid Waste tip fees we are projecting at $5,000,000. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 65 Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. (Councilmember Chock was noted as excused.) Ms. Fraley: Then the residential collection I believe is at $3,200,000. Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. Thank you. Ms. Fraley: There are other smaller fees at the transfer stations that we collect from commercial users as well. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Okay. If there are no more questions on disposal, we will move onto collections. Any questions on collections? Councilmember Kagawa: I have one. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: Is that page 312? Mr. Tabata: Yes. Councilmember Kagawa: What would the nature of the overtime be? Mr. Tabata: The overtime is used to work on holidays that we do not close...I take that back...we still collect refuse on holidays and we deliver it to the transfer stations and then we hold it there, but the refuse pickup still occurs on holidays. Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. Thank you. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Any other questions? I think you folks already answered my question. We will be getting a lot of equipment and I think we have a pretty good idea of what the need for the equipment is and what the efficiency is when it comes to our auto maintenance, so I am okay with that. I had a question on Other Services. Our National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System (NPDES) facility monitoring compliance and the transfer station BMPs, are those a one-time cost or are those going to be ongoing? Mr. Kakuda: The NPDES is yearly. We get the consultants to come and test the stormwater running off out site, so that is a yearly one. The BMP one...I am thinking that is just a one-time shot. That is to fix up the berms at Hanapepe and kind of hit Lihu`e, too...the KRC...we kind of want to fix up those berms. That was the cost projected this year. Mr. Tabata: We have these environmental socks that we place to capture if there is petroleum product and to remove silt from the rain runoff. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Okay. We are collections. We are probably going to move on if there are no other questions. We are going to go to recycling next. Okay, we are on recycling. Councilmember Yukimura's favorite. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 66 Councilmember Kagawa: I have a question. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: I received a call about the green bins...we are not accepting certain things...is that the egg cartons? Ms. Fraley: We did make a couple of program changes. One is that we are not accepting clamshells and trays. Councilmember Kagawa: Clamshells are made of what? Ms. Fraley: Plastic. The issue is that the clamshell is a molder plastic and bottles and jars, which we are accepting still, are a blown plastic. They are made with different resin types and they melt to different temperatures, so the markets are different. The market for those clamshells...there just is not one because by the time we get a full container load to ship after it is bailed and ready for market, it takes about five years for our recycler to get that much of it. It degrades, gets moldy, and it is not marketable. Councilmember Kagawa: We did the public notice. Ms. Fraley: Yes. Councilmember Kagawa: Is it working pretty good or is the problem still not following directions? Ms. Fraley: We did put signage on the bins as well. I have not checked in with the recycler to see because it has been such a short period of time to see exactly what is going on with how much the public...I know that people are noticing and they are asking questions and calling us. That is a good point and we should check with the recycling... Councilmember Kagawa: So with the clamshells, do you recommend that they just throw them in the regular rubbish? Ms. Fraley: Yes, they need to throw them away or try not to generate them. I know that is very hard because places like big box stores put produce in there and other food products that sometimes you cannot prevent from using them. If you can just not generate them, that is the recommendation. Councilmember Kagawa: I know we had these students that were trying to push forward these more expensive biodegradable type of containers. If you have hamburger steak and gravy, the gravy will kind of seep through it a little bit, like the Styrofoam just keeps all of the gravy in place. The Japanese call it "shido," the sauce, so the Styrofoam will keep the sauce being the same amount, but I guess those more environmental friendly ones will absorb a little bit of the sauce. Ms. Fraley: There are other products. There is one that is made with potato starch that do not do that. There are a little more expensive, but if it is paper, it might absorb sauce more than polystyrene would. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 67 Councilmember Kagawa: So those containers...what is the option? If you go with those containers, do they still go in the landfill but they breakdown better or something? Ms. Fraley: At this point, people could compost them in their own backyards by shredding them and putting them into a backyard composting bin. There is a composter on the north shore, Heart and Soul, that has a permit to take in containers and food waste and they have done that for special events. We do not have a largescale municipal food waste composting system right now. If you use them and you throw them away, they are going to go to the landfill. If you use them and make sure they get composted, then they will be composted. Councilmember Kagawa: If you have those vegetable composters, you throw that plate in there and it will breakdown? Ms. Fraley: You should probably shred it, but it will compost. Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. Thank you. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Council Chair Rapozo. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. In other services, page 319 on the bottom right of the page, I am noticing an increase of$697,000. Ms. Fraley: Yes. Council Chair Rapozo: Where is that increase? Ms. Fraley: There is a couple of places where those costs are rising. One is with the greenwaste processing. We have seen increases in Hanalei and Kapa`a, so we are accounting for that. Council Chair Rapozo: What is the increase? Ms. Fraley: $310,000. Council Chair Rapozo: How much? Ms. Fraley: $310,000. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Ms. Fraley: Then we have a $273,000 increase in the metals processing. We are going to be entering into a new contract with Resource Recovery Solutions and the market for the metals has dropped significantly. They have had major challenges in running the operation at the current price, which we have had for five (5) years. So we are starting a new contract at a little higher price. Council Chair Rapozo: Where is this? Ms. Fraley: The Puhi Metals Recycling center. They process all of these scrap metal appliances and automobiles on Kaua`i. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 68 Council Chair Rapozo: So we are going back into business with that same location? Ms. Fraley: It is in the same location, it is a different entity. Council Chair Rapozo: But we have not had anything to do with it, right? Ms. Fraley: Well, we contract with them, but it is a different contractor than before. When we actually leased the location and had Abe's as our contractor in the past. Council Chair Rapozo: Right. So this is vehicle appliance and scrap metal recycling? Ms. Fraley: Correct. Council Chair Rapozo: You said that it is going to go up how much? Ms. Fraley: I think it is $273,000. Council Chair Rapozo: What about the contamination, the cleanup? We are still trying to clean that up, right? Are we not paying to clean that place up? Mr. Kakuda: We went to the DOH and talked to them about it and what we are going to do with the soil over there is when we do the lateral expansion at Kekaha, we will use that as a select waste on the bottom, so that is what we are waiting for. It is sitting there and hopefully in the middle or late of next year, we will haul it over there, put it in the budget and haul it over there. Council Chair Rapozo: Are we still paying for that? Are we still budgeting for that clean up? Mr. Tabata: We have not been spending anything. As Donn just mentioned, when we build the lateral expansion cells, we will then move it over and we are not expecting until late next year. Council Chair Rapozo: Is there an allocation in this year's budget? Mr. Tabata: Not in this budget. Council Chair Rapozo: We no more? Mr. Tabata: Yes. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay, so that takes us to about... Mr. Tabata: It will only be hauling costs at that point. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. So that takes us to 580...where is the... Ms. Fraley: Then we have a $95,000 increase for the hauling of the white goods. We have the convenience of accepting white goods and scrap metal at the March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 69 transfer stations for the public and then we pay a hauler to take them to Puhi Metals. We continue to get really good participation from the public in that program, so this is just the same rate. It is going up, but we are going to have to go into a new contract...actually, sorry, which expires September 30th, so we are anticipating that there could an increase in the contract price. We put in a cushion for that. If we do not use it, then we will not use it, but we need to have enough money in case there is an increase. That is that. Then the Kaua`i Recycles program has a $42,000 increase. This is about a five percent (5%) increase in the projected budget. We are going to be going into a new contract in mid-December. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: That was on the previous page, right? Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, that one was on 318. Ms. Fraley: One more is the used tires processing. We are in a three-year term, which started in August of 2017. We are seeing a lot of activity in that program, a lot of tires being recycled at the transfer stations, so we put in an eight percent (8%) increase just to cover higher quantities, but it is the same per unit price. Those are all of the increases. We did have some decreases and household hazardous waste at $11,000, which is the current contract price when we went out to bid. Propane tank recycling is actually folded into the metals recycling program now because Resource Recovery Solutions is the only vendor on island that does propane tank recycling, so it is just going to be part of that larger contract. There is a $32,000 decrease there in propane tank. Those are all of the differences. Council Chair Rapozo: These folks when they take the cart, is that not a commodity itself, the metal? Ms. Fraley: No. Council Chair Rapozo: It is not? Ms. Fraley: No. Council Chair Rapozo: They are not making any more off of that? Ms. Fraley: No, they are not. Council Chair Rapozo: So the only money they make is from our contract? Ms. Fraley: Well, they do make some money, but they have to ship it and the price has gone down. But cars themselves, they have to be processed on O`ahu and there is a cost there. Council Chair Rapozo: It is just interesting because I know in a lot of places they pay the people to bring the car there. I do not know why there is a difference here, but maybe it is just because we have to send it to O`ahu. Mr. Tresler: I think consistent with what is happening with China. The metal prices overall...the recycling prices have decreased. Council Chair Rapozo: Did the metals used to go to China, too? March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works –Operating & CIP Page 70 Mr. Tresler: Yes, the majority. There are other buyers, but like everything else, when China is not buying, the recycling revenues will decrease, so then it costs money to ship these containers out with the metals. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: The question about the cleanup of the Puhi Metals Recycling site—what exactly...we are digging up the polluted soils? Mr. Kakuda: They dug up approximately two-thirds of the site. They screened it, took out the big metals, and they put the smaller things into the pile. We got it tested and went to DOH to ask them if we could use it as cover material for the landfill and they put a lot of restrictions on it, so it would be difficult for us to use, so we went another route. I asked them if we could use it for the lateral expansion as select fill and they agreed, so that is how we are moving forward with it. Once we move the pile, we still have to test that other last third on the site, and then we have to figure out how we are going to get rid of that soil, too, in the future. Councilmember Yukimura: So they are going to allow us to use contaminated soils as select fill for the lateral expansion? Mr. Kakuda: That is correct. Councilmember Yukimura: I just do not understand...why would we put fill into the lateral expansion? Mr. Kakuda: Basically, when you start a landfill, you have to get a clean base. So we do not want to put in clean dirt, so usually what you do is you get bags of trash, smaller stuff, not bulky stuff. In this case, since we have that soil over there, we asked them we could use it and feel that is the best route to use of get rid it. Councilmember Yukimura: So it is not actually not contaminated soil? Mr. Kakuda: It is over on some stuff. I cannot remember exactly. I think there is some petroleum stuff in there and I do not know if we are a little high on arsenic. I have to look at the report again, but it is considered contaminated. Councilmember Yukimura: We keep hazardous waste out of our landfill, right? Mr. Kakuda: We accept asbestos and other things at the landfill, we work with our operator to accept those things. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Mr. Tabata: They allow certain thresholds to be disposed of, so we went all of the information that was requested and tested for. We cannot use it for daily cover, but for this purpose that Donn is explaining, we have been approved. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 71 Councilmember Yukimura: In one way, it is a one-time kind of use rather than day-after-day using it as cover. Mr. Kakuda: It would cost the County much more money to try to use it as alternate daily cover because there is a lot of requirements for stockpiling contaminating material. So if we could do it at one crack at the lateral expansion, we should do it. It would be a one-time hauling cost and we would be done with at least that pile for now. Councilmember Yukimura: Right. The lateral expansion is all lined, right? Mr. Kakuda: Of course. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: I had a suggestion by my neighbor that said when they saw the problem of these abandoned cars. We have a number of them by Ahukini, by the homeless people down there, and they cannot trace the cars to the owners, so what my neighbor said was, "Why do we not impose a fee upfront whenever the dealership sells a new car or bring in a car from the mainland here, we impose a fee equal to the charge of disposing the car," then when you dispose it, you have the money upfront instead of us trying to collect it after we find that they are not responsible in bringing it back. If they responsibly bring it back, the owner gets that money back in return. It is just like we are holding it just in case they turn out to be responsible and if they are responsible in returning it, they get their money back. Have we looked at some idea like that to try and help us deal with these costs of these cars? If we do not address it, we are going to end up like Honolulu. They are in a bind right now. They have all of these cars and they do not know how they are going to fund the disposing of it. Mr. Tabata: I will make note. Thank you. Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. Thanks. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: At the Lihu`e Transfer Station, are we accepting recyclables there again? What is the status of that? Ms. Fraley: You mean at the Kaua`i Resource Center? The Lihu`e in front of the Lihu`e Transfer Station. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Right. Ms. Fraley: Yes. We are executing a contract with a vendor to do HI-5 redemption there. We are not going to have a drop-off for non-HI-5 recyclable because that presents a cost to the recycler. Then they have to pay rent to the County; it is a concession so they have to pay rent, property tax, insurance, and everything so it ends up being a lost to the recycler. We are in the process of contracting, and then they have to get certified, permitted, and contracted with the State, but it is moving. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Okay, but it is not open yet? March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 72 Ms. Fraley: It is not open yet. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Council Chair Rapozo. Council Chair Rapozo: When do you anticipate it being opened? Ms. Fraley: It has been a while. I am hoping four (4) months because that is how long the State says that it would take them to do all of those things I just said, but we are at the point of execution of the contracts. Council Chair Rapozo: But we do not pay them until they can operate, right? Ms. Fraley: Correct. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Ms. Fraley: They are paying us. Council Chair Rapozo: I am sorry, they are paying us, yes. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: I know that people have been struggling in the lines to recycle stuff. They could always dump it in the green bins around, but I think for people, that was a kind of convenient place to take their trash and recyclables at the same time. Ms. Fraley: Agreed. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: I am sure that our recycling numbers probably went down because that place is not open. Ms. Fraley: Well, the HI-5 redemption program numbers have gone down overall statewide. That could have been a contributing factor. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: Why have the numbers gone down? Ms. Fraley: No one has told us, we do not know. This is statewide, because imagine how many more people are on O`ahu. I know that on O`ahu a couple of years ago, Reynolds closed a bunch of their sites, so that probably is a factor that there are not as many places. Also, the recyclers tell us that they do not make a lot of money off running those programs and that those fees do need to be adjusted. Councilmember Yukimura: There is a move of foot to adjust those fees? Ms. Fraley: Well, there was a bill at the legislature. They did change the fee that you are talking about. It was going to be ten cents ($0.10) and then they reduced it back down to five cents ($0.05) because of the concern that you mentioned that that would be a difficult cost for people to bear when they buy a beverage. Also, the concern from the Department of Health was that it would be a difficult cost for the small recyclers to front, because they have to front the five cents ($0.05) back to the customer before they get March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works—Operating & CIP Page 73 reimbursed from the State later. So very small recyclers, like the one that we have here on island, that would be a big financial burden to them. That is what was in the committee report on the reason that they reduced that fee. Of course, higher deposits yield better program results as far as the participation. There are only ten (10) deposit (inaudible) throughout the nation and there is a couple that have a ten cent ($0.10) fee and the rate is much higher for recycling. Councilmember Yukimura: Why does the State not advance the money just to prime the pot and it should start going, right? Ms. Fraley: That would be a question for the State. Councilmember Yukimura: I am hoping that we are advocating something that is going to work better on Kaua`i. So right now, it is just going to be five cents ($0.05)? Then it is status quo. It does not look like this session will bring any change? Ms. Fraley: It does not look like it. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Okay. Any other questions for recycling? If not, we can go through these pretty quickly, but we still have Solid Waste Road Maintenance costs if we keep going through our binder. Any questions on the Solid Waste Road Maintenance? Mr. Tabata: Yes, we have some money there for labor and materials to do maintenance at the transfer stations. We cannot use Highway Funds at the transfer stations, so we had to carve out Solid Waste General Fund to accommodate that need. There is a conversation of the auditors'findings, how we are using the Highway Fund, and this is a result of that, that it had to be carved out and funded separately. We are complying. Councilmember Yukimura: How are salaries involved? Mr. Tabata: The employees who do the work from the Roads Division. We have to pay their salaries separately. Councilmember Yukimura: I see, so the Roads Division comes in and what roads are we talking about? Mr. Tabata: At the transfer stations. They not only do the roads, but say like in our greenwaste area, they do some work to assist and we pay from another fund when they come to help us haul the greenwaste. Councilmember Yukimura: So like at the Lihu`e Transfer Station, it is that driveway up to the transfer station that has to be repaved and our roads crew do it? Mr. Tabata: Yes and when we repaved the Kapa'a Transfer Station last year, we set aside funds for that to happen also, separate of the Highway Fund. Councilmember Yukimura: That is what Parks should have. Mr. Tabata: I believe that have, they are setting aside. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works—Operating & CIP Page 74 Councilmember Yukimura: That is good because the roads in the parking lots need a lot of work. Thank you. That is the $123,000. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: I believe when we get to Highway, we will see a General Fund number and that is for Parks' roads and Parks' parking lots. Councilmember Yukimura: Basically, it means that the Solid Waste Fund is paying for the work that the Roads Division does on Solid Waste facilities. Thank you. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: We will move on to the Auto Maintenance section of Solid Waste. Mr. Tabata: As you can see, there is a significant increase due to our equipment needs. We are still, as was mentioned, in a mode of catching up, so we still have to maintain what we have. This is the result of the increase. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: It is actually really good that you break this out. You are showing that the request for this coming year is $770,000. In 2015, it was $570,000. But it hovers around $500,000. Mr. Tabata: Yes. Councilmember Yukimura: The extra is because we are still trying to catch up on those trucks. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: The number that increased was the R&M vehicles parts and supplies for equipment. Councilmember Yukimura: Right. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: That is it. So we will move on. Thank you, Solid Waste. Next is Highways and Roads. Councilmember Yukimura: What page is Highways and Roads? Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Actually, we can start on page 203 and that is going to be the General Fund portion. From page 203, once we get to this, then we will go to the actual Public Works Roads tab and go through the budget. Mr. Tabata: So the $465,000 represents the material that we are setting aside for the support of Parks' parking lots. They would do the pave driveways and roadways in the parks with their own funds, but Public Works is charged with maintaining the non-paved parking lot areas. As was mentioned, I believe in the Mayor's State of the County...Mike can explain better because he was working with the Roads crews, but we started from Ke`e Beach and worked our way in. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: So just for non-asphalted parking lots? Mr. Tresler: Yes, for non-paved parking. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 75 Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Okay. Any questions on these numbers? Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: Are we on administrative? Committee Chair Kaneshiro: No. Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. Mr. Tabata: It is attached to the end of the General Fund page. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Yes, this is the General Fund money because it is for Parks and not Highways. Councilmember Yukimura: So this represents the total road repaving that you folks will be doing for Parks this year? Mr. Tabata: Not paving, it is the unimproved parking areas, parking lots mostly, that are not paved. So Ha`ena Beach Park, Black Pot, Pine Trees, Hanalei Beach Park, Anahola, Anini, Kealia, Nawiliwili, and Niumalu. Councilmember Yukimura: So now instead of having unpaved areas, we are going to have paved areas? Mr. Tabata: No, we cannot use... Councilmember Yukimura: I am sorry, you just explained that. So it is just grading basically? Mr. Tresler: Yes, grading and putting down materials that we are able to use. Mr. Tabata: This is just the materials and then we have the labor above. Councilmember Yukimura: So this costs $465,000 for one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight unpaved parking areas? Mr. Tabata: This is our projection. If you go down to say, Nawiliwili, it is really bad. I believe the community... Councilmember Yukimura: Oh, it is terrible. Mr. Tabata: So we are trying to budget accordingly. Councilmember Yukimura: Well, the thing is... Mr. Tabata: Kealia—we redid it two (2) years ago and it is pretty much...it is not as bad as two (2) years ago, but it needs attention. Councilmember Yukimura: I live in Lihu`e, so I see Nawiliwili all the time and it is not only used for beach parking, but for Dukes and other places there. It is really nice March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works—Operating & CIP Page 76 when you go in and grade it, but it lasts...if it rains especially like this, maybe six (6) months at the most, and then it is back to its bad shape again. Mr. Tabata: Due to various laws we have, we need to comply with the acceptable material, mainly the Special Management Area (SMA). Councilmember Yukimura: Did you folks ask Sea Grant if they have some new technology that would address this issue? Mr. Tresler: No, not specifically, but we have worked with our coordinator to determine what would be allowable. Councilmember Yukimura: With Ruby Pap? Mr. Tresler: Yes. Councilmember Yukimura: This is all that they came up with it, just regrading every six (6) months at a cost of close to $500,000 a year? Mr. Tabata: This is for all of the parks. Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, it is eight (8) of them. Mr. Tresler: It is a maintenance program, not a capital...actually paving... Councilmember Yukimura: Correct. Mr. Tresler: So my understanding is that you would need to go through quite a bit of permitting to... Councilmember Yukimura: Why not? This is expensive if you do year-after- year...ten (10) years... Mr. Tabata: We will look into that. Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, $4,000,000. I would love to see a more permanent solution somehow. Keep doing this while you go through the permitting, but get the permits and whether it is...Grasscrete is not a good thing, but something must be better. Thank you. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: With that, we will move on to the Public Works Roads tab, so this is Highway Funds. We will be on administration. Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: Are all of the positions currently filled? Committee Chair Kaneshiro: 836 is vacant. Councilmember Kagawa: Is that the Project Manager? Mr. Tabata: Yes. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 77 Councilmember Kagawa: What is the status? Do we have anybody interested? EDMOND RENAUD, Chief of Field Operations and Maintenance: Ed Renaud, Roads Division. Mr. Tabata: It has been vacant since August of 2016. First, we had to take this position and re-describe it to fit the needs. I believe we are in the process of going out for recruitment. Councilmember Kagawa: So this person will do what as project manager? Mr. Renaud: In reality, he is the project manager and he is going to be working with special construction because there is a lot of work there on managing the job and we have twelve (12) individuals in special construction that they need a special person there that can go out. You order as we go along with the schedules, so you need that special person there. That is his first duty. Councilmember Kagawa: Ordering materials? Mr. Renaud: Materials, contracting, and everything. Also, coordinating with the field personnel of that group. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Okay. I noticed in every baseyard budget, supplies went up. What is the reason? What will we see? Mr. Tabata: Trying to get the field a little bit more material money, so that is the money for them to do road repairs, or as you hear...I am sure that you are getting the calls that we get of potholes right now, especially with this wet weather. It is exponentially deteriorating, so trying to get them more road material. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura, you had a question the other day on potholes. I cannot remember exactly what it was. Councilmember Kagawa: It was me. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Oh. Councilmember Kagawa: I asked if there were any new techniques or what have you. Mr. Tabata: Over the last few years, the field, along with Ed's guidance, they have been looking at multiple sources of road repair material. We do not use cold mix anymore, except for if it is the only thing available and we ran out the product, that is the easiest stop-gap. We have different products that we have tried over the last few years and we had this resin-based product that we used. It can even be applied in wet weather. But it has a shelf life, so as soon as we order it, we have to use it. If not, it solidifies in the bucket. Councilmember Kagawa: I can help you folks with finding places to use it. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 78 Mr. Tabata: We know where it is, it is just getting the men out there. Councilmember Kagawa: Yes, it is hard to get the crew out there all of the time because you still have the regular maintenance. Mr. Tabata: Yes. Right now, I drive the roads, see the potholes, and see the rain, then I see sun pretty soon, then the roadside will take off on us. So you are thinking which hand you are going to use to balance, patch potholes? Roadside mowing? It is like a vicious circle that I just anticipate coming up real shortly when the sun comes out. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: I do not know if it is a follow-up, but I am looking at your Four Winds Group MPT Management Productivity Enhancement Tools and I love that you are saying, "Field operations have come to life with field supervisors as they begin to use these new tools." Is this what you folks have been partnering or piggybacking on the DOT? You said they have some new technique? Mr. Tresler: Yes, what I mentioned earlier was that the DOT, instead of biennially, are doing annual inventorying and lighter work, they call it with the technology, which basically gives it a video and laser scan of their assets. Then they can do road conditioning rating and of the inventory of all of their signs, guardrails, and so forth. So that was what I was speaking to earlier about. But Four Winds is an actual software that tracks work orders. Councilmember Yukimura: Has that been helping your operations at the baseyards? Mr. Tresler: Yes, it is. We need to make better use of it. So that is part of our undertaking, to better utilize that software. Councilmember Yukimura: There has been comments from the public about how much we take from the Highway Fund and how is that money being used? So I think there is a lack of understanding about what all the baseyards do and it would be helpful to explain that it is not just about road repaving, but it is also about mowing the sides of the roads and trimming the trees or the branches that get in the way. Then of course, you are also working on things like the Hanapepe River, right? The Roads crews were working on that. Mr. Tabata: They maintain the levees, keep us in compliance with Army Corps. The list goes on and on. We have storm drains, culverts, canals, and bus stops. Now, we will show you in the GE budget, we are taking on bus stops. So we took some vacant positions in Roads and other areas in the County and we transferred to make a maintenance crew to take care of our 157 County-owned bus stops. Councilmember Yukimura: That is what happens when you have new initiatives and then you have this work to do and follow-up and maintain and it is commendable that you folks have figured out a way to address it. I am just thinking that if there is a way to breakdown the work that you do and put a cost factor on it and show how March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 79 that adds up, it will be helpful just to explain to the public so they know that work is being done. It comes out of ignorance of not knowing. Did you want to say something, Ed? Mr. Renaud: That can be done. With the programs we have, that is not a problem. Councilmember Yukimura: That is great. The more you can allocate and show us the breakdown, that is great. So that is something you might follow-up with. Mr. Renaud: Sure. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. The road resurfacing comes under this division, too, right? Mr. Tresler: Yes. Councilmember Yukimura: So we are starting with $12,500,000, and of that, how much is being used for road resurfacing. Mr. Tabata: We will talk about that in the GE part. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: There is $900,000... Mr. Tabata: Yes, there is $900,000 in Highway Fund, which comes from the gasoline tax, the registration vehicle and weight, and franchise tax. Councilmember Yukimura: Right. We are taking $900,000 from the Highway Fund and then using the GE to do a total of how much? Mr. Tabata: $8,600,000. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. For next fiscal year, we are going to have $25,000,000, so you are rationing it out. Mr. Tresler: Yes. Councilmember Yukimura: And you are going by your program that you did work out for the ten-year period. Mr. Tabata: As Mike mentioned, we are also teaming with HDOT who already does the survey for our collector roads. We want them to do the County roads also. Councilmember Yukimura: Is that a private contractor who does that for DOT? Mr. Tabata: Yes, they have this firm who... Councilmember Yukimura: That will really help your field inspection process and keeping your software with the current data, right? Mr. Tabata: Yes. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 80 Mr. Tabata: Trying to synergize their assets with ours and look at how we can share information and work together. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Mr. Tabata: Even though they get a separate system, roads are roads. Councilmember Yukimura: There are so many interfaces. I am thinking of...is it Kolo Road in Kilauea where it comes out by the service station that meets Kuhio Highway, and there is a huge pothole and I am thinking, "Whose responsibility is this?" Mr. Tabata: We are addressing Kolo Road. It is our responsibility. It is federal aid road that connects to Kilauea, which is federal aid also. We were trying to synergize the federal aid process to address it, but we have been getting calls and we are going to try and do some interim repairs, like we did in Koloa and Maluhia, and soon to begin on Olohena, too, while we work the STIP process. Councilmember Yukimura: I am delighted and I appreciate all of that. I think the people of this island will be so thankful. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: I know we talked about in the past when we batch up a number of projects that sometimes we can get a cheaper price on the job. What is our plan going forward? Mr. Tabata: That is still what we try to do. We try to stay in an area so we (inaudible) minimum amount of times. We have to price out what it is going to cost for us to (inaudible) to go to Kilauea, to do Koloa, Kilauea, that section that is falling apart. We will see what money we have left after this present procurement closes next week. So we will see. Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. Thanks. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: For administration, their budget is pretty flat. I would say that all the baseyards, their budget was...you could see the increase in supplies, which they said is material for roads, and then they did put in for some new vehicles also in each baseyard, replacing vehicles. Those were the major changes that I saw. Do you folks have any questions on any of the baseyards? Councilmember Kagawa: I have one. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: Are we still doing extensive work out on the roads for the levees? Mr. Tabata: Yes. Councilmember Kagawa: Hanapepe...what about Waimea? March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 81 Mr. Tabata: Yes. Mr. Renaud: Six (6) individuals in there. Councilmember Kagawa: So is that pretty much a full-time... Mr. Renaud: No. Councilmember Kagawa: They help on other things? Mr. Renaud: Yes, the thing is that since they have managed everything properly, you walk out there and you would see that they do other things to assist the Roads crew, patching roads, cutting trees, and what not. Mr. Tabata: But their primary charge are the levees so that we stay in compliance, because there are insurance implications if we do not. We were mandated to create that crew, so I believe six (6) years ago, we did. I can proudly say that we are compliant. Councilmember Kagawa: With the insurance requirement? Mr. Tabata: Yes. Councilmember Kagawa: I brought it up in a request, maybe three (3) years ago, that little bit below the Waimea Swinging Bridge, there is an island caused by a huge tree growing right in the middle of the river. I know that it is not that easy to just get in there and remove the tree or even cut the tree. We have to get whatever permits necessary. Is that something we are still looking at? Mr. Renaud: That is not our tree, that is not our land. That is the State. We are waiting for DOT to come up with their solution. It belongs to them. What we are doing is I am communicating with Army Corps of Engineers to put the pressure on the State, but there is plenty of other things involving that. That is what we are doing right now. Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. Thank you. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Any other questions for the baseyards? If not, we will move on to sign and roads. It starts on page 270. Councilmember Kagawa: I have one question. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: So occasionally, I receive these complaints that people cannot see the markings on the roads, the sidewalks, and sometimes it is the center lines. How do we address keeping up with that? Do we have a rotation? Do we do that on a as-needed basis, maybe some places wear out faster than others? Mr. Renaud: My manager has a schedule on there with the seven-man crew and they are doing that, putting signs on what not. It is coming around, but March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 82 they set their priorities and what is really...if it is a worst condition that is causing a hazard or something then they will attend to that temporarily and get back to the schedule. Councilmember Kagawa: So sometimes in real emergency situations, they will pull off their normal course and attend to that and get back on the schedule? Mr. Renaud: Correct. Councilmember Kagawa: Thanks. Mr. Tabata: When the project is larger, then typically we can...beyond maintenance, we outsource. Rice Street was outsourced. Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. Thank you. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: I have a question about potholes. Is that okay? Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Sure. Councilmember Yukimura: If we get to this repaving schedule that we all want to over the next ten (10) years, the pothole problem should go down quite a bit, right? Mr. Tabata: Yes, especially with the techniques Ed has been employing in the field, we are not just simply overlaying when we resurface; we are looking at the road usage and when we required, we are reconstructing, not only by milling and filling, we are reconstructing after we get data from core sampling of what the soil structure is under the road. So we use that data to help us design the road properly. Long-term, probably long after I am gone, we are going to see the fruits of that extra labor. Councilmember Yukimura: So the long-term solution to potholes is what you are talking about? Mr. Tabata: To reconstruct the road properly. Councilmember Yukimura: We can go in and try to fix it when it happens, but the real solution is to do the roads well. Mr. Tabata: When you see roads that pump water, we need to get under there and get the water out. Councilmember Yukimura: Right. Mr. Tabata: A French drain or whichever, to make sure it drains properly under the road. Councilmember Yukimura: When new roads are being built, we have to make sure that they are built right in the first place. Mr. Tabata: Right. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 83 Councilmember Yukimura: So that is monitoring the private developers who are often the ones who put in the new roads and that is our inspection process? Mr. Tabata: Yes. Councilmember Yukimura: Because then, if they are built to shun water or whatever the term is, you do not have to go back and correct it. Mr. Tabata: Yes. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kawakami. Councilmember Kawakami: Thank you, Mr. Chair. So for signs and roads, we are getting some calls on areas like Waikomo Road, Po`ipu Road, and Pu`u Road about excessive speeding, and those are Safe Routes to School areas, I believe. Do we have anything in the budget to increase signage? Does that work? Do we need to go with the lighted sign? Do we get Safe Routes to School funding in this portion of the budget? Mr. Tabata: There are funds for safety improvements. Councilmember Kawakami: What is the solution to that? I hear it all of the time, like Po`ipu Road... Mr. Tabata: Exactly. When we install signage or determine signage as required, Engineering determines that by going out and surveying doing traffic counts and so forth and making the recommendations. In fact, I believe that our Engineering Division did respond to a request for signage and the Chief of the Engineering did reply outlining the rationale and the decision-making process. Ultimately, it boils down to enforcement. We can put all the signs up or just... Councilmember Kawakami: What it comes down to is traffic-calming measures, right? That is what it is, putting our roads on a diet so that we slow vehicular miles per hour down. That is what people are wrestling with. There is some kind of misinformation that slowing vehicles down is a bad thing, which is not necessarily a bad thing. If we can keep traffic flowing and slow vehicles down, that is the ultimate goal. Mr. Tabata: Exactly. Councilmember Kawakami: That is what it comes down to. So if I have to respond to constituents on Puu Road, Waikomo Road, and Po`ipu Road, how do I respond when they ask me what are we doing to make things safer? Councilmember Yukimura: We tried on Waikomo. Councilmember Kawakami: Give me the background on Waikomo; is that where we got pushback because we tried to do a Safe Routes to School initiative? Mr. Tabata: Yes. Maybe we can speak offline about the details. It was... March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 84 Committee Chair Kaneshiro: They were going to make it one-way. Mr. Tabata: Ultimately, the one-way solution was because of the limited right-of-way, most of all, and that single-lane bridge, we were limited in what we could do with the funds available. The total community was not brought on during the initial conception of the project. Then we were two-thirds through and realized that the larger group of the community was not involved, which we thought we had them involved from the beginning. Councilmember Kawakami: So we failed to communicate? Mr. Tabata: Yes. Councilmember Kawakami: Do we abandon projects when we fail to communicate? Mr. Tabata: We have not abandoned it. Councilmember Kawakami: Okay. Maybe we need to go back and really... Mr. Tabata: We need to restart the project the proper way. Councilmember Kawakami: That was Waikomo Road? Mr. Tabata: Yes. Councilmember Kawakami: So when I have somebody complaining to me, "My kid is biking along Waikomo Road and we reached out to the County on numerous occasions on the dangers," I can at least respond to say that the County did make an attempt and that they have to go back to the drawing board and back to the community to spell out some traffic-calming measures in the area. So it has nothing to do with signage? Mr. Tabata: Well, signage will always help; however, we believe we have an adequate amount of signage. It is all about community education. We can put all of the measures in place that we have in our toolbox for traffic-calming, but in the end, it is individual driver behavior that needs to be modified. Councilmember Kawakami: Sometimes with that design, our roads do change people's driving behaviors, right? Mr. Tabata: Yes. Councilmember Kawakami: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: Actually, there is already an existing traffic- calming fixture on Waikomo Road where there is that dip, right? That bridge? Mr. Tabata: The people who live there tell us differently. It should work as a traffic-calming, but some use it as a launching ramp is what I have been told. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 85 Councilmember Yukimura: Well, drivers like me slow down. If it was purely traffic-calming that you wanted to do, could we put something like we did at Hanalei as an experiment? The road to Black Pot? We put that table? Ed, you are shaking your head. Mr. Renaud: I am shaking my head because that is a big maintenance cost. That is why we are going for designing with Engineering to put asphalt concrete with the design so that the emergency vehicles still can use it. Councilmember Yukimura: Because in Hanalei, that is a problem for emergency vehicles. Mr. Renaud: Correct. Councilmember Yukimura: That is good if you are looking at some other options. Mr. Tabata: Waikomo Road is a federal aid road, so we have restrictions on what we can do on a federal aid road also, although the community may not know that. It was designated quite a while back as a collector road. Councilmember Yukimura: We might be able to undesignate it, but then it will not qualify for repaving on an 8020 schedule. Mr. Tabata: Yes. Councilmember Yukimura: So it is a plus or minus situation. Mr. Tabata: So to answer Councilmember Kawakami's question, page 274, you see tree-trimming, multimodal improvements, and roadway safety, that is where our Safe Routes to School funds or part of. Councilmember Kawakami: Not tree-trimming though, right? Mr. Tabata: No, not tree-trimming. Multimodal improvements and roadway safety. Councilmember Kawakami: Okay. Mr. Chair, I apologize. I had one burning topic that was tied directly to roads. I do not know if we can go back to roads and ask my question. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Sure. Councilmember Kawakami: Sorry for this. We have had this tug of war between the State and County in regards to roads in limbo and it continues to be, at least for me, in speaking for myself, a topic that comes up from constituents that live along these roads in limbo; how many roads in limbo are we actually talking about? Mr. Tabata: I have that information and I can get it to you. I do not know it off the top of my head. It is at my fingertips. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 86 Councilmember Kawakami: If you have to get back, that is fine, it can come later. I think the bigger question that I have is, is there a way, because these people will be paying into this General Excise Tax surcharge. Is there a way for the County to come in to fix these roads, and yet indemnify ourselves from any of the concerns that we may have had, whether it is liability, maybe concerns that have to do with federal requirements as far as road standards, but is there a creative way where we can go in and fix these roads? These are taxpayers as well. They do pay motor vehicle weight taxes, fuel taxes, and property taxes, and they will be paying this General Excise Tax surcharge, so they have made a compelling argument to me that, "Hey, I know that there is a battle between the County and the State, but at the end of the day, we just want our roads fixed. What can we do?" Mr. Tabata: We hear that loud and clear and the Mayor has directed us to specifically look into addressing this issue. Councilmember Kawakami: We may have to have some kind of legislative drawn up by the state legislature to say, "Go fix the road,"but they may have to kokua a little bit, too. Mr. Tabata: We had past legislation that we were working on, but right now, exactly what you said, because of this GET surcharge, we are committed to seek a solution. Councilmember Kawakami: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am sorry about that rewind. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: We are still in roads anyways, so it is a relevant topic. While we are on it, we can move on to road maintenance, which is the sheet that Lyle referred us to. It had tree-trimming, multimodal improvements, and roadway safety. Do we have any questions on that? Councilmember Yukimura: How are you planning to spend those moneys? I believe you have the Safe Routes to School plans for each school that is working that has signed on to Safe Routes to School? Mr. Tabata: That is separate funds for Safe Routes to School. We have some money in here to help with the improvements to make us more flexible. But funds that have been designated at in projects. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. I am sorry, what page was that on? Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Page 274. Councilmember Yukimura: Where is the Safe Routes to School? Mr. Tabata: It is not in the Roads budget. Mr. Tresler: He was pointing out roads safety, the $200,000. Councilmember Yukimura: What page is it on? Mr. Tresler: Page 274. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 87 Councilmember Yukimura: That is Safe Routes to School? Mr. Tabata: No, not all of it. We have some moneys in there for materials, but for specific schools that we have applied for and received grant funds, that is in the separate... Councilmember Yukimura: So there are Safe Routes to School grants? Mr. Tabata: Yes. Councilmember Yukimura: Councilmember Kawakami had (inaudible) earmark for Safe Routes to School. How much money total do we have for Safe Routes to School? Mr. Tabata: I have to get back to you. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Mr. Tabata: We had the surcharge money of which depending on if it is in a school location...if you get a traffic violation in a school zone, it is $25. Any other violation, we get$10. Our annual allotment has been about$80,000 a year and I believe we have been collecting for three (3) years now, maybe four (4). I have to get that total. Councilmember Yukimura: In terms of our budget layout, we have a sheet that lays out the Safe Routes to School... Mr. Tabata: Projects. Councilmember Yukimura: Projects and budget, so we can see how you are allocating that money. Mr. Tabata: I do not know specifically if we have a budget for it, but what we put in Roads supports the grant projects. Councilmember Yukimura: Right, but if the Safe Routes to School money comes to us, then do we not have a Safe Routes to School fund? We should technically, right? Mr. Matsushige: Yes, we have a separate fund for that on the side. Councilmember Yukimura: You do not do an accounting for us during budget time? Mr. Matsushige: No, it is not part of the Operating Budget. That is a grant. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. I see, it is a grant. One way to slow down cars in a Safe Routes to School area because of the surcharges, get the police there and just hit it so they start realizing that that is not a place to speed. You have that surcharge that is an additional disincentive than you would in a regular speeding situation. How are you spending your multimodal improvement fund, $100,000 on page 274? March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 88 Mr. Tabata: Between those two (2) funds, we were going to use them for road striping and purchase for those rapid flashing beacon signs that were not in school zones. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. So we are doubling the amount that you have from...no...let us see...you were allocated $400,000 last year or $290,000? Committee Chair Kaneshiro: $290,000 last year. Councilmember Yukimura: Now $400,000 is the ask, right? Mr. Tabata: The Committee had come to us... Councilmember Yukimura: Did you spend all of that? Mr. Tabata: We are at $177 right now. We had a little glitch as far as the rapid flashing beacon signs. There was a protest on the copyright, so Federal Highways disallowed the use. But just this week, I have received communication that they are reinstating, because one of our suppliers bought out the patent completely. We believe we are going through the process of getting it reapproved. Then we will start ordering again. That was what this money was in there so that we could purchase the beacon signs for areas that were not identified, as I said, Safe Routes to School or in schools that had not applied for grant money yet and be able to install them. Councilmember Yukimura: How long have the flashing lights been available as a technology? Mr. Tabata: I believe it was made aware to us in particular in 2012. Councilmember Yukimura: But is it a tested technology? Does it actually show that it prevents people from being hit in a crosswalk? Mr. Tabata: There are two (2) thoughts. Michael Moule has data that he collected from around the country that we presented previously and he is off right now and can get that from him again. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. I use the one in front of the post office and almost got hit because it is four (4) lanes right. One car may stop and the other car may not see...even though you have those flashing lights, I do think they help, but sometimes they might also cause people to really rely on them and abandon the caution that could be dangerous. Mr. Tabata: I agree. Councilmember Yukimura: I worry about that and I hope that is not going to be the remedy for the Lima Ola route to school on that Kaumuali`i, because the cars are coming too fast. Although, that road is two (2) lanes, so that is better than four (4). Anyway, the bottom line is just making sure that people and especially kids are safe in crossing. I just want to make sure that we can rely on that technology. Mr. Tabata: Not on a four-lane highway. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 89 Councilmember Yukimura: Not on a four-lane highway, it is not a best practice? Mr. Tabata: No. Councilmember Yukimura: But on a two-lane, it might work? Mr. Tabata: So what we have done on Hardy Street was with the two (2)lane, we also put a sheltered median halfway through and curb extensions. Those are traffic-calming techniques that we have employed from the two (2) walks that we have. Councilmember Yukimura: I think Hardy Street is a real success from what I have been hearing from users. At least with the roundabout, Councilmember Kagawa and I agree on. Councilmember Kagawa: I love them all. Mr. Tabata: So if we could go backwards one step, total miles of roads in limbo, forty-two point six eight (42.68) miles. Councilmember Kawakami: That is a lot of miles. Maybe we have to just start by prioritizing, which was... Mr. Tabata: That is exactly what we are doing. Councilmember Kawakami: Okay. Because it came up as far as the amount that Safe Routes to School has actually awarded to Kaua`i, I am just going to go off of Department of Transportation's information, but in 2014, $251,500 went to Kaua`i for the flashing beacons. $416,000 went to the County of Kaua`i for King Kaumuali`i Elementary School Safe Routes to School Phase I. In 2014, $490,875 went to the County of Kaua`i for Koloa Safe Routes to School Phase II. In 2016, about $500,000 was awarded to the County of Kaua`i for Kalaheo Elementary School Safe Routes to School Phase I. Have all of these moneys at least started to be expended to get us towards those initiatives? Mr. Tabata: They are all in design. Councilmember Kawakami: Okay, that is good news. That is just Kaua`i. Every other island has also been a beneficiary of the Safe Routes to School Special Fund. How much does it cost to do underpasses? The only reason why I bring it up is because I live pretty close to on and it is actually on the golf course, but just out of my curiosity, how much does it cost to actually do an underpass? People have said that it is very expensive and that it is cheaper to do an overpass. Mr. Tresler: I do not know that answer. Councilmember Kawakami: Okay. Mr. Tresler: I know the underpass because we had two (2) designs from Grove Farm and it was very expensive. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 90 Councilmember Kawakami: They are really awesome, but they are really expensive. Can we try to find out from somebody what that actual tangible cost would be, just for my own personal edification? Even the overpass, too. When we are trying to separate people from vehicles on some of these four-lane highways, and as we grow and as more kids...we are starting to encourage kids to walk to school. We have to make sure that we are also taken to the decision-making process that some of these eventually might have to be built. When do we decide to build them? Sooner, rather than later? That is another philosophical question. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: If you want to get a good example, you should try the Lima Ola route across Kaumuali`i Highway. Somebody should be doing a feasibility study because that really is the only safe way to get kids across that highway, separated transportation. Maybe somebody is doing a study of that already. Councilmember Kawakami: If we build it, will you support Lima Ola? I am just kidding. Councilmember Yukimura: I already support the first phase. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Anymore questions on roads? The last section will be GET. Councilmember Yukimura: I have a question about the Safe Routes to School Fund. I would like to see an accounting of that. That is a lot of money and I am glad that we got it and I know it will support this wonderful administration's commitment to Safe Routes to School, but I would like to see the accounting of it. Mr. Tabata: Okay. Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: With that, let us move to page 287. Mr. Tabata: It is actually a separate tab, page 288. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Okay. Mr. Tabata: Page 288 is the breakdown. Councilmember Kagawa: Mr. Chair, I have a meeting in twelve (12) minutes, prearranged. I did not think that I would be the fourth member that is needed to be here to have a quorum. So for your information, they are already waiting, so I do not want to keep them beyond. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: We have ten (10) more minutes. This is the General Excise Tax section. It is actually in the Public Works tab, last page. Mr. Tabata: Page 288. Councilmember Kawakami: I got it. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 91 Committee Chair Kaneshiro: The very last two (2) pages of Public Works. Mr. Tabata: Bottom right, page 288. Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Here, we see where they are spending $7,900,000 of GET; $7,600,000 on islandwide resurfacing road and bridge repairs. We touched up on the conversation of the bus stop laborers and moving some positions around from Engineering and Building to help with the additional roadwork. We are going to lose quorum at 3:00 p.m., so my goal is to finish this and we are done for today. We are done with all of Public Works. Then on Tuesday, we will come back with CIP. Councilmember Kagawa: I have a quick question. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: I have a quick question. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: So these laborer positions for bus stops, these are new positions? Mr. Tabata: No, they are taken from Public Works. Councilmember Kagawa: So those three (3) people and the Principle Project Manager, they are... Mr. Tabata: The Principle Project Manager came from Engineering, 9047. Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. Mr. Tabata: The Engineering Tech, 9052 also came from Engineering. Councilmember Kagawa: He has a dollar only in his salary. Mr. Tabata: Yes, we are just being ready for when we need him. Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. Mr. Tabata: I believe 939 came from one of the baseyards that we had dollar-funded 9443. Councilmember Kagawa: So they are not onboard yet, we have to hire them? Mr. Tabata: Yes. March 23, 2018 Department of Public Works —Operating & CIP Page 92 Councilmember Kagawa: It is just existing positions that you folks have put under here. So you have not created a new position, it was an old position slithered into here and then we need to hire. Mr. Tresler: Yes. Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: So of $12,500,000, we are spending $160,000 for transit? That is it? Mr. Tabata: I am sorry? Mr. Tresler: No. This is just what we are spending in Roads. Mr. Tabata: Yes, this is in Roads. The balance of the $12,500,000 went to transportation. Councilmember Yukimura: Well,just to substitute the General Fund. It is not giving any expansion of services in any way. You are not helping transportation; you are helping every other need. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: We will talk transit when transit is up. Mr. Tabata: I cannot answer that. Councilmember Yukimura: That is outrageous. Thank you. Committee Chair Kaneshiro: Any questions on General Excise Tax for Roads? If not, then I think we will call it a day today. Monday is Prince Kuhio Holiday, so we will be back here on Tuesday where we will look at the Department of Public Works CIP Budget. With that, we will reconvene at 9:00 a.m. and recess the Departmental Budget Reviews. There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 2:52 p.m.