HomeMy WebLinkAbout 11/29/2017-12/01/2017 Special Planning Committee minutes re Bill#2666 (General Plan Update), NOTE: 12/01/2017 meeting was canceled SPECIAL PLANNING COMMITTEE
MINUTES
ON BILL#2666
(GENERAL PLAN UPDATE)
11/29/2017-12/01 /2017
(NOTE: 12/01/2017 Special Planning Committee
Meeting was canceled)
11/29/2017
SPECIAL PLANNING COMMITTEE
MINUTES
ON
BILL#2666
(GENERAL PLAN UPDATE)
1
MINUTES
SPECIAL PLANNING COMMITTEE
November 29-30, 2017
A meeting of the Special Planning Committee of the County of Kaua`i, State of
Hawaii, was called to order by Mason K. Chock, Chair, at the Council Chambers,
4396 Rice Street, Suite 201, Lihu`e, Kaua`i, on Wednesday, November 29, 2017, at
2:07 p.m., after which the following Members answered the call of the roll:
Honorable Mason K. Chock
Honorable Ross Kagawa (left at 2:31 p.m.)
Honorable Derek S.K. Kawakami
Honorable JoAnn A. Yukimura
Honorable Arryl Kaneshiro
Honorable Mel Rapozo
Excused: Honorable Arthur Brun
The Committee proceeded on its agenda item as follows:
Bill No. 2666 A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE TO AMEND CHAPTER 7,
ARTICLE 1, KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED,
RELATING TO THE UPDATE OF THE GENERAL PLAN FOR
THE COUNTY OF KAUAI (ZA-2017-3) (This item was
Deferred to the December 13, 2017 Special Planning
Committee Meeting.)
Committee Chair Chock: I would like to reconvene the Special Planning
Committee Meeting, scheduled for today. There is a quorum. Councilmember Brun
is excused. Today, we will be covering Topics 6 and 7. We will be covering all of 6
first, then moving to Topic 7 in terms of presentation, and then have questions and
answers for both. Those topics include Topic 6, The Watershed, Energy
Sustainability, Public Safety, and Hazard Resiliency Opportunity and Health For All;
and then Topic 7, which is Implementation, Reporting, and Monitoring. Members, as
stated before, we will be taking all questions and answers on each of these. My hope
is that we can keep questions to each of the actual sectors. We have had trouble doing
that, which I understand because there is a lot of overlap, but let us try our best to
do so. That way, we can move through each of the sectors efficiently. Tomorrow as
mentioned, we will have our public testimony, followed by discussion by
Councilmembers on any amendments. We have some resource people also available
today, like George Costa, Office of Economic Development and/or Ben Sullivan from
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 2 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
the Office of Economic Development, and Chelsie Sakai from Kaua`i Emergency
Management Agency. If you have questions for these people, they will not be
available until tomorrow, so if you could hold your questions for Janet Berreman,
Kaua`i District Health Officer at the State Department of Health, and Brandon
Shimokawa, Vice Chancellor at Kaua`i Community College (KCC). Also for
Implementing and Reporting, we have Melissa White from SSFM. There have been
testimonies submitted for today's subject matter, as well as testimony and
amendments from the Kaua`i Community Coalition. If you have questions of them at
any time, feel free to ask. There is one last piece that I would like to just put on the
table for Committee Members, and that is as we finish out this week's topics, what
we will move towards on December 13, 14, and 15 are amendments. We are currently
structuring amendments. Jenelle is doing a good job of receiving all of those. If you
have amendments, Members, please be sure to get them in, in a timely manner so
that we can actually process them and have them ready for the 13th. With that being
said, depending on how many amendments we have—we do not know exactly how
much right now—I think there is an excess of forty (40) or so amendments already on
the table. I would like to ask and inquire of all Members if we should be looking
towards a deadline for submission of amendments and when that is feasible for all of
you.
Councilmember Kagawa: I have a question.
Committee Chair Chock: Yes.
Councilmember Kagawa: We have forty (40) individual amendments or
did we group it into the ones that are likely to pass together, comprised, or are there
forty (40) ala carte, individual amendments?
Committee Chair Chock: This is only actually not even with my
discussion with Jenelle; it actually was my discussion of amendments that were
discussed at the table that the Planning Department said that they would be willing
to work on. That is the figure I got from Mike Dahilig.
Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. So we are not sure how much are
condensed?
Committee Chair Chock: That is right. We may have individual
Members. I do not know what that number is in terms of who is submitting
amendments. Just so you know, there are about forty (40) to start off with that I
know that the Planning Department...
Councilmember Kagawa: Sorry to interrupt, but I asked if we can group
up the ones that are likely to have an easy consensus on passing that I wanted it
bunched up together.
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 3 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
Committee Chair Chock: I think what we are looking at is three (3)
pots, Vice Chair: one is sort of those nonbinding ones, so more like words changes into
one pile; that would be one (1) amendment. The others are more the big topics that
we talked about, like `Ele`ele and Princeville. Then we have to kind of work our way
through whatever is left over. I will have a better idea before the next time we get
together.
Councilmember Kagawa: It is not going to matter. I just wanted us to
do the condensed one if we could, and then see what the other number was. The other
ones would probably be ala carte.
Committee Chair Chock: Yes, we have to go that route. Any questions
before we get to presentations on this topics in terms of deadlines on amendments?
We could continue to go on.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: On the amendments, if there are some that
may be questionable and needs to go to the County Attorney, I would love for it to go
through and be vetted by the time it gets to us so then it does not come here and we
question if this is legal or not, then I do not want to put Mauna Kea on the spot and
I do not want us to spend a lot of time discussing it when we cannot actually do it. I
think that would help save time if a Member has an amendment that they think is
questionable as far as if we can do it or not.
Committee Chair Chock: Let me just put that in a context, because I
know there have been a lot of actual amendments coming from the community from
a lot of different people and organizations. First of all, you need a Member to
introduce it, so that needs to be established if there is a particular amendment that
you have submitted and want it introduced. At that point, Jenelle will take it and
actually help to start to process that and that way if some legal questions come up or
concurrence with the Planning Department. At this stage, we need those
amendments in from everyone. Any other questions? I will look for...just to see the
idea that we would get to an end date on this on the amendments, we will have the
next three (3) dates in December to go over those. At this time, if there are no
objections, I would like to suspend the rules and ask the Planning Department to
come up and present on Topic 6.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
MARIE WILLIAMS, Long Range Planner: Good afternoon, Committee
Chair Chock and Members of the County Council. Thank you for having us up again
today for this Special Planning Committee Meeting on the draft General Plan. Today,
we are going to cover Topic 6, and to do that, we will start with a short overview
presentation of the subjects related to the topic, followed by a kind of more focused
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 4 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
presentation by Ruby Pap, our University of Hawaii Sea Grant Agent, who has been
a critical part of our General Plan Update team and she will focus more on climate
change and what we have to consider when we are thinking of sea-level rise and
higher temperatures as well as related to our long-range plan. With that, I will begin
the overview presentation. As we typically do, when we do this intro slideshow, I
want to go back to what the General Plan framework is. As always, and this is
something pretty consistent with all general plans wherever you go, it really does
start with goals and a high-level vision as well and this is something that has to be
established through an in-depth and robust public process. We have that there in the
center of the circle and as we go out to our more specific policy, we have nineteen (19)
policies and those are meant to kind of be our high-level guidance for how the County
should develop and grow over the next twenty (20) years, and then we get more
specific; we explain how, in fact, we move forward with them as they relate to the
various subjects that the General Plan covers.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Today, we will actually be covering four (4) sectors within Chapter 3. We have
covered six (6) of the ten (10) sectors thus far. Sector 1 is the Watershed sector and
there is actually a reason that we put it first upfront in Chapter 3 and that it is
Sector 1. Here, we are acknowledging that it is very important that our environment
is a critical piece of how we protect and plan for our future. The subsections related
to the Watershed sector include the Upper Watershed, the Middle Watershed, and
that includes drainage and freshwater resources; Coastal Areas and Shorelines; and
then Threatened and Endangered and Invasive Species as well. The objectives
related to this include "to conserve the upper watershed and restore a native habitat
and forested areas to protect, restore, and enhance freshwater resources to support
aquatic, environmental, and cultural resources; to recognize and mitigate impacts
from the built environment to the mid-watershed area; to protect and enhance coastal
resources and public access to the shoreline; to protect the flora and fauna unique to
Kauai and Hawaii; and to mitigate the impact of invasive species. When we were
out in the public talking about this, we definitely heard a strong consensus that our
beaches are unique and that we need to protect them. People wanted to see effective
management of our environment. Also, there was a definite concern that we need to
think about the health of our reefs as well, even though this is a County land use
plan.
Here are some selected implementing actions in the sector. If you are
interested in reading them, they are on pages 99 through 111, and of course are
grouped into our four (4) implementation tools in that number one is how we permit
development and what has to change in our development code; what we move forward
with, with plans and studies; how we guide and select projects and programs; and
what our partnership needs are as well.
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 5 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
Sector 8 is our Energy sector and this was a very important section as well
in our process with our Community Advisory Committee (CAC). There was a lot of
concern that to truly be a more sustainable and resilient place, we do have to think
about this and how we have a clean energy future as well. People also saw that
because of all of the progress being made thus far, that Kaua`i really has a chance to
lead, and it is, in fact, in that role right now and we need to continue that. On the
right in the table, you see the objectives for the various subsections and what the
policy relation is as well. Again, the implementation actions can be found on
pages 179 through 186 and some examples are that we would find a way to streamline
and expedite the permitting process involving renewable energy and also promote
more dense development near job centers, and that would have the impact of reducing
the emissions related to car travel. Then plans and studies, an important action
would be to develop a climate action plan and conduct a related greenhouse gas
emissions inventory, and with projects and programs, definitely continue our trend
of having more solar facilities on County property. Finally, an important partnership
need would be to monitor the amount of energy production that is actually produced
on-island as well.
Sector 9 is Public Safety and Hazards and the three (3) subsections and
objectives related to that are Fire, Police, and Ocean Safety Emergency Services. The
objective is to ensure adequate coverage of public safety and emergency services as
Kaua`i grows; hazards resiliency, the objective is to ensure that Kauai is resilient to
natural disasters and other emergencies; global warming and climate change
adaptation, the objective is to prepare for and adapt to the impacts of climate change
on the natural and built environments. Some key permitting actions related to this
would be to minimize coastal development in areas of high-risk of coastal erosion,
flooding, tsunami, and sea-level rise, and definitely when we update our development
code to consider the best availability climate and hazard science that is out there at
that time. An important planning action would be to conduct hazard risk and
vulnerability assessments for critical infrastructure and low lying coastal areas as
part of future community planning processes. We have identified projects and
partnership needs related to this sector as well.
Moving on to our final sector that we will be discussing today, we call it"Health
and Opportunity for All." This is something really new and it is something that even
though it is very important, it was not really addressed in our existing General Plan.
Based on what we heard, we do need to consider how we can be a more equitable
place, we need to think about how we can improve access to quality education and
training, we need to factor in community health in our planning, and also really
support access to recreation and subsistence activities as well.
The related objectives are shown in the table to the right. Some examples of
our implementation actions related to this sector would be for a permitting action
that we look in our development code and see if there are ways that we can better
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 6 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
support the increase of family childcare homes, preschools, and charter schools to see
if there are any impediments in our codes related to these. Two (2) important plans
that we need to implement and update are the Kaua`i Plan on Aging and the Kaua`i
Community Health Improvement Initiative as well. With projects, if we can find
ways to leverage infrastructure investments to bring jobs and housing opportunities
to underserved communities as well. Finally with partnership needs, we realize that
there is a social equity impact that if we do not now anticipate and plan for the health
impacts of climate change. So that is something that we have to start thinking about
as well. With that, that summarizes our Topic 6 sectors that we are going to cover
today. We are going to go straight into our more focused presentation on climate
change by Ruby Pap.
RUBY PAP, Coastal Land Use Extension Agent, University of Hawaii Sea
Grant College Program: Aloha Committee Chair Chock and
Committee Members, my name is Ruby Pap. In case some of you do not know me, I
am a Coastal Land Use Extension Agent with the University of Hawai`i Sea Grant
college program. I am seconded into the Planning Department, as Marie said, and I
mainly serve as an advisory capacity on a range of coastal science issues. Sea Grant
Extension Agents play a unique role in that we are focused on providing the scientific
information to guide decision-making, rather than taking a position or advocating for
any particular outcome, so we are non-regulatory. Along this vein, I have been
assisting the County on a range of coastal hazard issues, including impacts from
climate change. I have been involved with the General Plan since the technical
studies phase, since the beginning of its drafting as well. So my goal today is to give
you just a short presentation focused on sea-level rise and orient you on how it is
being covered in the draft at this time.
As I mentioned, Sea Grant's involvement with the General Plan Update began
with this technical study, the Kaua`i Climate Change and Coastal Hazards
Assessment, which was published in 2014. I guess I was the lead project manager on
this study and I led a team from the University of Hawai`i of coastal hazards
specialists and geologists mainly. Our job was to focus on the coastal hazards
associated with climate change. We know there is a variety of issues and impacts
associated with climate change and this was simply...not simply...but it was a focus
on the coastal hazards. Our job was to synthesize the existing scientific and planning
resources and explain their relevancy to Kaua`i, so we did not generate any new data;
we mind the wealth of data and information that is out there and put it in a form that
can be used by planners to plan with. We also did a gap analysis where we identified
gaps in planning information, gaps in data, and then generated recommendations to
move forward in the face of those gaps, so that was mainly our methodology.
First, just a little background on coastal hazards, which I know all of you are
very familiar with, but Kaua`i's recent development history can be really traced back
to Hurricane `Iniki, which devastated the island back in 1992, brought with it heavy
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 7 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
storm surge, high winds, and caused billions of dollars in damage. Now, due to the
world's unabated greenhouse gas emissions, we are faced with climate changes that
probably are going to exacerbate many of our existing hazards. This includes
increases in frequency and duration of those storms, but also worsening our more
chronic hazards, such as coastal erosion and flooding. Sea-level rise in particular is
expected to increase the severity and extent of coastal erosion, wave over wash,
groundwater flooding, and drainage failure. As sea-levels rise, it also rises the
freshwater lens of creating more wetlands and causing more groundwater issues and
drainage issues. Obviously, the impacts from hurricane storm surge and tsunami
inundation would be increased as well.
So this is the plot of increasing global mean sea-level over the past century.
The blue here is the yearly average that was calculated from tide gauges over time
since 1900. This is the sea-level change rate on this axis here and time down here.
The blue is the yearly from tide gauges and the red is for more recent technology since
1993 when they started measuring sea-levels using satellite altimetry. We have
presented the rates here in inches per century so that you can get a sense of the
change over time. So as you can see, the rate of sea-level rise doubled from early
mid-century and then doubled again up to the present. So we are now at about one
and a half(1.5) foot per century.
What contributes to sea-level rise? Basically, it is a combination of ice melt
from the polar ice caps and glaciers, as well as thermal expansion of the oceans. So
this is a plot showing that same satellite altimetry observed sea-level change here
and the contributions from thermal expansion of the ocean. So when you heat up the
ocean, it expands. Then contributions from what they call "added water" that is from
ice melt. The combined has resulted in what we have observed thus far. So that is
what has been observed and now I just want to move on to some projections for the
future.
In 2013, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) or the "IPPC"
as you will probably hear it called, put out its fifth assessment report. This included
a range of projections projected out to the year 2100. So we have the year down here
on this axis and in meters of sea-level rise here on the "y" axis. This graph provides
two (2) sea-level rise scenarios. The lower scenario of sea-level rise is in blue within
certainty ranges in the shaded areas and the high-end scenario is in red. The blue
scenario is just basically assuming that greenhouse gas emissions would peak this
decade and then basically decline substantially, which is highly unlikely. The red
assumes more what they call "the business as usual" scenario where the greenhouse
gas emissions continue to rise throughout the century. The upper end of the upper
scenario, so the top of that red band, corresponds to about one (1) foot of sea-level rise
by 2050 and three point two (3.2) feet by 2100. This scenario was used in our technical
study as a basic planning recommendation or a rule of thumb that we said that based
on the science thus far, one (1) foot of sea-level rise by 2050 and three (3) feet by 2100
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 8 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
was a good planning target. We also provided other ranges to consider, because there
are lots of science out there. These two (2) maps are of Hanalei. Like I said before,
we did not generate any new data. We used data from the National Oceanic and
Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) Sea-Level Rise Viewer project, which anyone
can go online, but we downloaded the Geographic Information System (GIS) data and
made sample maps throughout the island of specific communities to show, basically,
as a screening level tool to show areas that needed further study. This is the one (1)
foot scenario and the three (3) foot scenario here.
However, since our technical report and since the IPCC projections, the science
has continued to evolve to where sea-level rise of three (3) feet is actually considered
more of a mid-range scenario. So the question is not if we reach three (3) feet, but
when, and it is looking like it is going to be closer and closer to more mid-century.
For example, National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) in December
of 2015 made this compelling statement that given what we know now about how the
ocean expands as it warms and how ice sheets and glaciers are adding water, it is
pretty certain that we are locked into at least three (3) feet of sea-level rise and
probably more. So that means that even if we do abate our greenhouse gas emissions,
we are locked into that amount. It is important to remember that sea-levels will
continue to rise also and future centuries as well. Also, recent results regarding
Antarctic and Greenland ice sheet instability indicate that this is probably much
more likely than previously thought, so the IPCC study that I previously showed did
not include all of the models for rapid melting of these areas because even though
there was good science out there, it was not part of the consensus body; IPCC is a
huge body of scientists that must come to consensus on the science. At the time, the
models were not refined enough. Now, we know more and more about how this ice
sheet is behaving, or researchers know more and more, and it is looking more likely
that that will add water to the system. There are still questions and uncertainties,
which remain about how the world will reduce its greenhouse gas emissions given the
news in the last year or so, and also how the ice sheets will respond. All of this just
points towards more of the higher-end scenario.
Recently in 2017, NOAA came out with its new projections based on recent
research of the up-to-date literature on sea-level rise, including models for potential
rapid ice melt in Greenland and Antarctica. The black line here is simply the
continuation of the historical rate, which would be a very low scenario and the red
line assumes the worst-case scenario of maximum ice loss and it is called the "extreme
scenario." Basically, it is saying that the extreme scenario is physically plausible that
we could have up to eight point six (8.6) feet globally by the end of this century, which
is a very high rate. It is considered unlikely, it is the "extreme," but it is out there
and it just points to the need to be more conservative in our planning. As you can
see, if you look at the three (3) foot scenario we were talking about earlier, it is more
of a mid-range scenario, closer to mid-century. As a result from that, our
recommendation is to shift the three (3) foot by 2100 planning horizon to sooner, so
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 9 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
we are now looking at more of a three (3) foot plus by mid-century and consider that
we are more in a one (1) foot scenario right now in the near term.
So the Planning Commission draft does reflect this three (3) foot planning
target and it makes sense, because our infrastructure and our buildings and such,
the last seventy (70) plus years when you build it, so it is prudent to plan for at least
three (3) feet in most cases. I wanted to mention that the sea-level rise maps, the
data from those maps that I described earlier, was used to analyze the land use map
in the General Plan. What we did is we took the three (3) foot inundation scenario
and overlaid it with the land use map and any newly designated future growth areas
within that inundation area was put back. If we found any areas that were in a
sea-level rise, inundation zone of zero to three (3) feet, was put back into a
non-development-oriented land use designation, like natural or agriculture. This is
just one (1) example of a map. We did not make these for the plan, but I made these
for illustration purposes of these areas that we found. This is one (1) example in
Hanalei that was put back in natural. So that was the analysis that we did for the
land use map. The General Plan checks to also recognize that studies do—this is the
text of the General Plan—"project upwards of six (6) feet of sea-level rise by 2100."
Because there is this range of projections, the plan emphasizes always using the best
available science to guide decisions and to use a scenario-based planning approach. I
will talk more about that in a minute. I just want to mention the one (1) foot, three (3)
foot, and the six (6) foot sea-level rise flood maps are included in the Appendix of the
plan. They are basically just illustrations, they are not the entire island, but one can
go online and look at those as well. Given that there are a few key principles that we
recommended to be included in the plan and you will see language as such and they
are using the best available science at the time for planning, because we know this is
a moving target when we are talking about predicting into the future. Also, using
adaptive management techniques and scenario-planning approaches. But also
moving forward in the face of uncertainty and we have put in several actions to help
move us forward towards adapting and being more resilient on the island.
Below here are three (3) of the example maps for Kapa'a Town, the one (1) foot
inundation scenario, three (3) foot inundation scenario, and the six (6) foot. This was
considered extreme at the time. These maps are in the plan and meant to serve as a
screening tool to identify vulnerable areas that may require further study or where
new dense development should be avoided. They are screening level only because,
and this is a big point to make, the data is limited from these maps. They actually
underestimate the hazard because they only show still water flooding. So that is
basically filling up a bathtub and the water is still in there or a glass of water, but it
does not include when you shake it around and you cause waves, erosion, and things
like that. So you look at the shoreline here of Kapa'a Town and you do not see a lot
of blue inundation and that is why it does not include the erosion impacts or the wave
inundation impacts. That research is currently underway by researchers from the
State and will be available for planners in the future. That is why I say that these
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 10 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
are screening-level type of maps for planning. The gap in the data was pointed out
in our technical study and just pointed to the importance of having adequate planning
information before you make real detailed decisions about all of the existing
development that may be in harm's way, but to just set the stage for the next analysis
that will need to occur when that data does become available. The idea of adaptive
management speaks to that and it is dependent on having continual monitoring of
the climate change data and building and revising different scenarios and developing
flexible response mechanisms and actions. One example of that, like with the
Shoreline Setback Ordinance, has been revisited over time, the last time, twenty (20)
feet was added to account for sea-level rise and that may need to be revisited again.
Lastly, just scenario-based planning means that given these range of projections,
really we want to look at a range when you are considering projects or plans, and
then making informed decisions based on the range, on the scenario that fits your
tolerance for risk. For example, if you have a really intense development, like a power
plant on the coast, you might want to say you have a very low tolerance for risk,
because that is very expensive and it would be horrible if it was damaged and we
depend on that infrastructure. So you want to plan for a higher number and make
sure that is really outside of any hazard zone, versus maybe a seaside path or
something that is more flexible and can be moved in more near-term, shorter-term
infrastructure. You might be able to get away with planning for a lower number. We
recommend that there are these tools for planning for different scenarios and that
they should be used as much as possible. The last thing is moving forward in the face
of uncertainty and that is what we attempted to do, is the General Plan lays the
groundwork to do that through the community plans. So the big elephant in the room
is what do we do about all of our existing communities that are in low-lying areas? It
is easy to plan for future growth and keep them safe, but what about our existing
communities? A key step that we put into the plan and it probably looks a little
redundant, but we felt we needed to put it in different places in the plan where it
belonged, where these hazard risk and vulnerability assessments that need to be
done, community by community, to make the decisions about infrastructure, about
homes and about what the adaptation options are for the community. These
assessments are based on having adequate planning information. So right now, we
only have bathtub flooding maps, but we need to get the maps that show the erosion
and the wave inundation so that we can understand the full hazard so the community
can have a robust and clear conversation about it. That is where that action comes
from, setting that stage for that type of analysis. You will see those actions in the
draft, and just to let you know that planning information will probably be released
next year by the Hawai`i Climate Change, Mitigation, and Adaptation Commission.
I just wanted to give you a few of the key takeaways with respect to climate change
adaptations, sea-level rise in particular, but I am happy to go into any more details
with your questions. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you. Does that conclude all of Topic 6?
Okay. Members, what I would like to do is take on any of Ruby's presentation as it
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 11 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
relates to climate change and the General Plan first. I know she is not feeling as good
as she would like to feel, so maybe we can get her out of here if possible.
Councilmember Kawakami.
Councilmember Kawakami: Thank you for that very eye-opening
presentation on climate change and sea-level rise. I leaned over and I asked
Councilmember Yukimura...there is a lot of people that will correlate a three (3) foot
increase in sea-level rise as just meaning three (3) feet more of the shoreline, which
is completely false. Is there a measurement that you folks have, say if it is a foot in
sea-level rise, how much real estate are we losing upon the shoreline? If it is along
estuaries, rivers, or waterways, how much does that increase? Is there a calculation
that we can use, so like when I am with my kids at the beach, I can kind of tell
them...they are asking, "How much is a one (1) foot sea-level rise? If it is just one (1)
foot then that it is not too bad."
Ms. Pap: There are various calculations out there and I
am not the best mathematician, but I would say that it requires modeling and that
modeling is underway right now. Actually, it is almost finished at the State level and
there is going to be maps that show different scenarios that include what you are
saying is the erosion impact...the additional impact...not just water flooding onto the
shore, but what does that mean when it erodes? It is exponential, it is not a 1:1
relationship and there is something called the "Bruun Rule" and I could not explain
it...it is something that you could look up, but it is based on the slope of the beach
and some other calculations. They are actually doing that work for us, so we are
waiting for that information.
Councilmember Kawakami: So it is much more complicated than a
formula?
Ms. Pap: Well, there is a formula. I find formulas very
complicated, but if you are comfortable with them, I could get you that.
Councilmember Kawakami: No.
Ms. Pap: There is some geometry involved.
Councilmember Kawakami: Tell me an app.
Ms. Pap: Yes, exactly.
Councilmember Kawakami: The other question that I had, and we had the
Department of Water up earlier, and I tied it into today's presentation and I asked
about our aquafers, "We have this lens of fresh water that floats upon the salt water
and with global climate change and the increase in sea-level rise with potential bigger
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 12 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
storms; does the impact our aquafers at all? Does that increase the likelihood of
saltwater intruding into our freshwater resources?" There really was not too much
of an answer to give me. Have you folks looked at that on Kaua`i or statewide?
Ms. Pap: What I know is that there is a risk of
saltwater intrusion into wells if there are wells located close to the shoreline and I
think that is something that we should look into further, perhaps of the Department
of Water. I do not know the answer specifically for aquafers...that was an interesting
question, but I do know that as sea-levels rise, it pushes that freshwater lens up near
the shoreline, so we will see a creation of new wetlands at the surface. I am not a
hydrogeologist, so I do not know how that would affect the actual water supply and
the aquafer itself. I think you want to also be looking at how climate change impacts
rainfall and things like that, which is a whole other developing science.
Councilmember Kawakami: Trade winds and things that are important to
us.
Ms. Pap: Yes, trade winds and things like that.
Exactly.
Councilmember Kawakami: Okay. Thank you, Chair.
Committee Chair Chock: Any further questions for Ruby?
Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Ruby, thank you for being here. Would you
say that climate change and global warming is maybe one of the most important
issues facing the planet today?
Ms. Pap: Yes, I would.
Councilmember Yukimura: What would be the three (3) most important
things you think that the County should do?
Ms. Pap: Well, I think it is basically what I presented,
which was always keeping an eye on the best available science and using that. We
need to really...when the data becomes available that shows the full impact from the
sea-level rise scenarios, the next most important step is to do
community-by-community risk and vulnerability assessments so that the
communities can really understand their vulnerabilities and make some decisions
about the future. That is two (2) of the major ones right now. Just making sure
future development is placed out of harm's way, but I think it is really looking at our
existing communities and what our options are there. There is the whole other side,
which is mitigation, which I do not work on as much, but at the same time, everyone
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 13 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
needs to be working on reducing our own emission so that we can slow the pace as
much as possible.
Councilmember Yukimura: I am glad you mentioned the third one
because otherwise the three (3) actions are just adaptation, saying, "Come on, climate
change. We will adjust because we have to." I share your thinking that we need to
also try to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions, what we generate here from this
island, as small as it may be. If every community did that, we would get quite a big
change. Number 3, Sector 9 and Section 3—this is mainly about adaptation. It was
at the intention to address adaptation.
Ms. Pap: Yes, so the mitigation chapter is before it and
the energy sustainability.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. So the intention is to address
mitigation under the section of energy sustainability?
Ms. Pap: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Would Planning have an objection to
adding the words to Energy Sustainability "and Climate Change Mitigation"?
Committee Chair Chock: To the title you mean?
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes.
MICHAEL A. DAHILIG, Planning Director: No.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. So this adequate information, your
number one of the adaptation actions that you talked about...
Ms. Pap: The best available science? Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, keeping an eye on the best available
science; would that mean that we would change "A" under permitting actions and
code changes, A.1?
Ms. Pap: Can you tell me what page?
Councilmember Yukimura: Page 194 in the General Plan. Number 1, A.1,
at the last sentence—Yvette, can we get it on the overhead? "At the time of the
General Plan Update publication, the science suggests a planning target of three (3)
feet": we would change that now, right?
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 14 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
Ms. Pap: Not based on what I just presented. That is a
flat target, expect three (3) feet...plan for three (3) feet of sea-level rise, which is going
to occur in the latter half of the century.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay, I thought you said now that we are
looking more at six (6) feet, but that is not true?
Ms. Pap: There is a six (6) foot scenario that could be
considered also, but the three (3) feet was recommended as a more near-term
scenario, but that is also provided in the plan for consideration.
Mr. Dahilig: Councilmember, just keep in mind that the
planning horizon is 2035, so if there is...at least within the bounds of the temporal...
Councilmember Yukimura: The next twenty (20) years?
Mr. Dahilig: The next twenty (20) years...2035 it would
bring us to...so what the science is starting to shift towards is three (3) by 2050, which
is outside of our planning horizon.
Councilmember Yukimura: So we are okay with three (3) feet?
Mr. Dahilig: We think that three (3) is a comfortable
target.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you. In terms of doing that,
would this best science and best data be incorporated into our land management
information system?
Mr. Dahilig: What is compiled as part of the maps in the
General Plan are also hazard maps, as Ruby mentioned. If that does become adopted
as part of the overall land use policy, then we would definitely move forward towards
geo-referencing that information as part of the County's official set of policy maps. At
this point, until something is adopted, we were not going to move forward with
anything other than keep it as a reference information.
Councilmember Yukimura: Until something is adopted?
Mr. Dahilig: Until this plan is adopted with the maps that
is in there, then we would take those maps as generated, because it is in the
Appendix, as Ruby mentioned.
Councilmember Yukimura: Right.
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 15 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
Mr. Dahilig: So we would geo-reference that information
and include it in our land management information system, which would be
GIS-based.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay, so what you are saying is once this plan
is adopted, then the information would be included in the land information
management information system?
Mr. Dahilig: Yes, that is what would be included, but it
does also not preclude the fact that as recommended, the science is continuing to shift
and the models are getting more and more accurate with respect to how this is going
on. It is also, from a textual standpoint in the plan, consistent for us to continue to
seek guidance from agencies like Sea Grant, NOAA, and the University of Hawai`i as
to what is the best available science. That is why, we are, to some respect, not trying
to "lock in" a specific spatial policy per se, but rather provide a basis for spatial
evaluation at any given time.
Councilmember Yukimura: Absolutely. Your land information
management system would not be locked in time. In fact, that would be the value of
having this database that could be shifted as the best information shifts.
Mr. Dahilig: On top of that, keep in mind that as Ruby did
allude to, we do have the Interagency Climate and Adaptation Commission. That is
a State commission that is now also going through mapping exercises to adopt and
generate data to the source. We expect information from that process at the State
level to also give us data that can be geo-referenced as part of our land information
management system. There are policy systems in place for us to continue to integrate
the best available science.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. So basically, the answer to my question
is yes, you will be incorporating this new data as it comes in this land information
system?
Mr. Dahilig: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. You know all of these actions, and
maybe I should have asked it before, but who is supposed to do these actions? For
example, "use the best available climate and hazard science to inform and guide
decisions." Is that the Planning Commission?
Mr. Dahilig: That is one end user. Again, there are many
end users of this document at the end of the day. When we are looking at specifically,
let us say the Planning Commission or our department evaluating a permit
application, one of the guiding actions for us would be if there is something along or
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 16 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
in an area that is prone to coastal inundation or flooding or some type of coastal
hazard, we would try to cross-reference it and ensure that the best available science
is integrated in that analysis.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. That is why you would have a policy
statement that everybody refers to.
Mr. Dahilig: Which is "prepare for climate change," which
is one of the nineteen (19) policy statements.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. On page 195, under "partnership
needs," you say, "Consider incentive programs such as a tax incentive program or a
transfer of development rights program to relocate potential or existing development
out of hazardous or sensitive areas," etcetera. How does "transfer of development
rights" work in this context?
Mr. Dahilig: Well, again, there are many factors, as we
described and discussed in our housing discussion a few weeks ago, that many
elements have to come into play with respect to how to incentivize and also handle
the movement of people away from hazardous areas or from areas that we do not see
as palatable for development. One clear example of where this has been done in the
past was after the 1960 tsunami in Hilo, where you had two (2) tsunamis within
sixteen (16) years come in and actually inundate downtown Hilo and the State had
to figure out how to facilitate movement of pretty much the whole commercial
business district away from that area. So those are the types of situations where that
kind of rapid approach towards handling the movement of a community after a
disaster has been utilized. So the type of development rights that were incentivized
was essentially the State made land available across the current Hilo airport and
with a forty (40) to forty-five (45)year lease pretty much moved everybody back there.
One of the more indicative moves was that Hilo Solar Works actually got moved back
from the front area of Hilo Bay, all the way towards the airport. That is where this
discussion of tax incentives, rights, providing land that is available is something that
is in the partnership needs portion of this particular discussion, because what we are
aware of is situations where the State, in its wisdom, has used and employed a rapid
retreat response in situations like after the Hilo tsunami.
Councilmember Yukimura: What is the partnership that you see here?
Mr. Dahilig: Again, a lot of that would have to be
incumbent on whether or not the State zoning was aligned, whether the
infrastructure was available, whether the water was available, whether the roads are
available. It is not just an action by the County from a regulatory standpoint to say,
"Okay, we are going to move you away." There are many things that have to fall into
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 17 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
place in order to facilitate that retreat. So that is why it is identified as a partnership
need because it requires all hands to be on deck.
Councilmember Yukimura: Who do you see initiating this?
Mr. Dahilig: It comes in two (2) forms, whether there is an
actual policy to move forward with retreat. I think that is a situation where you have
a disaster. A disaster provides those scenarios where the answer is pretty much given
to you that, "Okay, retreat should be done in this circumstance." But when you are
getting into scenarios where you have existing communities, as Ruby has mentioned,
where if you were to tell them, "You know what, you need to leave your home," when
there is no impendent disaster, that emotional attachment to the real property
becomes partly in question because we are dealing with a slow creep of a disaster
versus something that is very temporarily short, where you have something like
sea-level rise, even though it maybe over a five (5), ten (10), fifteen(15), to twenty (20)
year timespan, having somebody prematurely in their mind give up their home along
the shoreline because of sea-level rise, for a better standpoint, could be "sticky." Who
is going to initiate that force retreat becomes really a sticky question for issues related
to regulatory takings and so forth. That is why we do not necessarily say that retreat
is the preferred alternative to adaptation in a circumstance, rather because the
horizon of the scenario that we are looking at, which is outside of the planning horizon
of this particular document, is what we are entertaining right now. We are saying,
"Let us get prepared and slowly get towards that adjustment of adaptation. Let us
start planning ahead by not adding more and inviting more intense development
along the shoreline, etcetera." We are not, within the planning horizon, saying that
we need to be focused on retreat as a preferred land use alternative.
Ms. Pap: If I may, the other option or scenario that
could occur, and that is why I mentioned that I think it is important for each
community to do this exercise of a community-based vulnerability assessment is that
when the communities go through that exercise and they identify their vulnerabilities
and their infrastructure and perhaps a row of homes that is particularly vulnerable,
it may be that they decide amongst themselves, amongst a whole slew of options, that
they may want to consider establishing a program for themselves or tax themselves
for relocation or do a Transferable Development Right (TDR) or something, but it is
provided as an option for each community to consider or it could be considered by the
County as a whole. But the idea was is that first get a handle on the magnitude of
the impact and understand the vulnerability that those options would grow out of
that process.
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, after Hurricane Iniki, we experienced
all of the parcels along the road to Spouting Horn, Lawa`i Road—totally wiped out...I
mean totally wiped out, including the other coasts, too. That would have been the
clearest of times to say, "No, you cannot rebuild." We tried to do that in one case with
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 18 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
one of the hotels and if it does not work in that kind of scenario, I do not think it will
ever work.
Ms. Pap: Well, I think the key piece that might have
been missing there, and I do not want to step out of line because I was not here, but
what I understand is there was not any pre-disaster planning in that sense and there
is a way where the community can come together and look at their vulnerabilities
and look at their risks in advance so that when that does happen, they have a slew of
options to choose from. They may have already discussed, "Well, if this happens, we
may do that."
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, I think most of the thinking is, "Well, we
will rebuild and have another twenty (20) years of a lot of really good income as
vacation rentals or even as a vacation house, and if it comes, it comes." I do not know
what the flood insurance is, but I have not seen...I think it is the same all over the
country that people basically go back to rebuild, unless there is another program
available immediately where they get another house somewhere else that is as good
and not so subject to flood. The reason why I am asking so many questions about this
"consider incentive programs," unless somebody actually develops a program, and it
is not going to be the owners of the property...it is not going to happen. I concur that
it has to be available and in place before the disaster happens and ready to be invoked
when the disaster happens. I am just thinking though as this "under a partnership
need" with no accountability as to who is to do it, it is unlikely to happen. That is
why I have been asking who would initiate this and who would create this?
Mr. Dahilig: That again is the broader statewide policy in
question that is being tackled by the Interagency of Climate Change and Adaptation
Commission. When you look at retreat scenarios that have happened, you also need
willing landowners. When you are looking at who owns the most land in the State of
Hawai`i, it is the State of Hawai`i. So whether or not you come to the table with that
discussion and initiate it with the person holding the largest amount of public trust
lands, they obviously have to be invested in initiating that discussion from the get-go.
It was something that they were willing to do in 1960, but whether or not that is a
scenario or discussion that is most appropriate for them to take the lead on and be
held accountable on, they nevertheless still have to be an integral partner in this,
because they are the ones that are most likely supplying the send zone in a scenario
like this.
Councilmember Yukimura: Would you say that we should say, "Work
with the Interagency of Climate Change and Adaptation Commission to develop
incentive programs"?
Mr. Dahilig: Well, I think if you look at just right above
that paragraph 6, how that works is what...
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 19 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
Councilmember Yukimura: Paragraph 6?
Mr. Dahilig: Above paragraph 6 in E.6, sorry, the same
page.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
Mr. Dahilig: We do recognize that this work is going on. I
am actually flying to Honolulu in two (2) weeks to actually vote on the adoption of
that first draft of the plan. That has been studied, so that is going over to the
legislature shortly, but it is definitely an all hands type of scenario that needs to
include the State of Hawai`i as a discussion partner. So did you want to beef up the
language in Section 3?
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Ruby, I had a few testimonies focused on
climate change as a need to be highlighted. I know you said it is kind of redundant
because it is spread out through different areas of the plan, but in particular, the
testimonies referring to the watersheds section. So I guess the question is really
climate change as it relates to watershed, and if so, where you see that need?
Ms. Pap: Well, in the watershed chapter, there is a
whole host of sea-level rise adaptation measures in the coastal section, so it became
a challenge because the climate change is such a cross-cutting measure and affects
every aspect of our lives. Do we do a separate chapter on climate change or try to
integrate it more into the things that we normally plan for? So that was the decision
that was made, and because our coastal areas are so important, that is where a lot of
that was put in terms of the hazards part that I worked on. So in terms of the coastal
hazards.
Committee Chair Chock: Where is that again?
Ms. Pap: It is Sector 1...page 105.
Committee Chair Chock: Okay. Anymore questions for Ruby,
specifically? If not, I am going to keep moving down to the topics.
Ms. Pap: I am always available offline if anyone wants
to contact me.
Councilmember Yukimura: Do we get to ask questions about watershed?
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 20 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
Committee Chair Chock: Yes, I was going to move right down the line
with watershed next, if that is okay, but I just wanted to see if we could get through
whatever questions for climate change with Ruby.
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, I have climate change questions for the
energy sector, which is supposedly the mitigation piece of climate change.
Committee Chair Chock: Why do you not ask that now? Like I said, I
think Ruby is a little under the weather, so we was hoping we could get her out of
here.
Ms. Pap: We have a resource person here, too, on that.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, I think you do have someone else. I think
it is Ben, right?
Ms. Pap: Yes, Ben.
Committee Chair Chock: If that is the case, then why do we not let her
go and then we can move to watershed.
Ms. Pap: I am still here, so I can come back up if I need
to, but I will get off the hot seat for now.
Committee Chair Chock: Take a rest.
Ms. Pap: Okay. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Watershed questions?
Councilmember Yukimura: We are going to watershed?
Committee Chair Chock: Yes, if that is okay. I did get some testimony
and I was wondering, Mike or Marie, if the Nature Conservancy was included in the
discussion for some of the development of this section. I did get some from them that
I thought was actually pretty objective and thorough. I am not sure if you received a
copy of it, but I can send it to you. Did you?
Ms. Williams: Yes.
Committee Chair Chock: I do see Mr. (Reeto-inaudible?) here as well. I
will just outline some of them...some of them is actually stating it correctly with the
strategic plan, which is management plan, "inclusion of (Aloha Plus-inaudible?)
challenge in thirty-eight percent (38%) as far as preservation." Some of those
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 21 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
statements seem pretty standard and contributing, so if you have this then I will not
move into it, just acknowledge that you have it.
Mr. Dahilig: Yes, we have reviewed it and gone through it
and if that is amended language the County would like to see integrated, it seems
pretty acceptable.
Committee Chair Chock: Yes, it seems pretty straightforward. The
Wao Akua area...the verbiage should be in the right area. Thank you. I do not know
if you had a copy...
Councilmember Yukimura: I saw it, I think, but since we have
Mr. (inaudible-Reto?) here, I believe he is qualified as a resource person.
Committee Chair Chock: If you have a question for Mr. (Reto-
inaudible?) because of it, I will entertain a question for him. I am pretty satisfied
with the acknowledgment that I have gotten from Planning that they are willing to
move on these amendments that have been presented by TNC.
Councilmember Yukimura: Maybe just for the public's edification, you can
summarize them?
Committee Chair Chock: I do not think I can. There are too many to do
so, but they will come up in amendments for sure.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
Committee Chair Chock: There are tons of amendments. Do you see all
of these amendments here? Again, if you have questions of him, I will entertain it.
If not, then general questions and they may have specific people that you want to
reference. None on watershed anyone? We can start from page 98. I will just move
to one of these others that came up. You started to allude to this in sort of intrusion
on the streams and I know Lei and I have talked about it in the past with the State's
interest in moving cesspools and transitioning them. I am worrying if there was...as
I see some of the testimony asking for a direction in that, a more stronger approach
to helping to transition, moving or transitioning these cesspools that are near or along
streams.
Ms. Williams: A lot of our policy-related to our wastewater
systems, cesspools, and septic systems is actually in the critical infrastructure
section.
Committee Chair Chock: I see.
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 22 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
Ms. Williams: But of course, we do support ultimately trying
to convert our fourteen thousand (14,000) cesspools...well, probably not all of them,
but we did want to acknowledge the Department of Health and how it is hoping
ultimately to convert at least those cesspools located adjacent to a drainage area or
in a drainage area to a more ecofriendly septic system or perhaps be part of a
wastewater system.
Committee Chair Chock: Is there a standard of approach in talking
about in location to a stream for a septic system?
Mr. Dahilig: The only standard from a spatial standpoint
that I am aware of is whether or not you are above or below the Underground
Injection Control (UIC) line. So that UIC line becomes really the standard as set
forth under the Clean Water Act and the Safe Water Drinking Act that is both
enforced by the State, but is a Federal law. With respect to the actual stream
channels and flows, I think that was something that could be built upon within our
current special treatment regimes, whether or not there are distances from our
current stream channels that need to be avoided from injection control types of
activities.
Committee Chair Chock: Okay.
Councilmember Yukimura: I have a follow-up on that.
Committee Chair Chock: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: So you are saying that we have just an overall
synopsis of the cesspool problem, if you could give that?
Mr. Dahilig: The science behind wastewater treatment has
essentially come to the conclusion, especially at the regulatory level and the Federal
level that the amount of treatment for our wastewater needs to be more than just
bearing it underground and letting it digest. So that is why septic is now the standard
with respect to how to treat a wastewater. What has happened over the years is that
because cesspools have been used predominantly in older construction, those older
homes along many of our coasts are not leaching organic material that is up to the
microbial standards that the Department of Health would like it to be. In order to
make our nearshore environments that are used predominantly for recreation safer,
they would like to see these conversions. Under Federal law, high capacity cesspools
are already considered illegal, but even to change a cesspool, whether it would be high
capacity or a residential cesspool is quite expensive. That is why the State has come
forward with new grant programs to try to subsidize the conversion of these cesspools
to more adequate septic systems.
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 23 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
Councilmember Yukimura: So our goal then, as an island, is to convert
the fourteen thousand (14,000) existing cesspools to upgrade them to the standard of
septic tanks? Is that correct? Is that our goal?
Ms. Williams: I know the State does have an incentive
program. It does not like seem like they have had a great success with getting people
to take advantage of that program, but I do not know what their specific or if they
have a specific target related towards a number they are trying to hit, but of course
they would try to seek as many conversions of cesspools as possible. There is not a
stated target in the General Plan.
Councilmember Yukimura: And we do not have a goal, even though it is
not our specific kuleana for regulatory enforcement, but in terms of our goals as a
sustainable island that is beautiful and a livable place that is healthy and equitable,
then what is our goal? We might have a partner that has to achieve that, but have
we thought about it or do we know that at least within areas that are along streams
and along the coastline, those would be our targets? Can we conceive of a goal that
says, "In the next twenty (20) years, our goal is to convert these systems to meet the
standards of best practice?" I do not know exactly how to articulate it so that they
would either be hooked up to a sewer system or they would be at a level of septic
system treatment.
Ms. Williams: Allow me to just point out action D.1 in the
wastewater subsection. It is on page 141.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
Ms. Williams: It is a partnership need and it does say,
"Reduce the number of cesspools to septic conversion or through connection to a new
of existing regional wastewater system." But you are right, it does not have a specific
number attached to that.
Councilmember Yukimura: What page? 141?
Ms. Williams: Page 141, D.1.
Councilmember Yukimura: If we convert five (5) in the next twenty (20)
years, we will have achieved our goal, right? We will have reduced the number of
cesspools. I heard from Councilmember Chock a concern about...and I think from the
community...it is along the streams, like Nawiliwili Stream that leads out to
Kalapaki Bay, which is both a resort and a recreation area for both tourists and
residents that affects health and safety. Would it be advisable to have a clearer goal
in terms of our overarching four (4) goals?
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 24 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
Mr. Dahilig: As stated earlier, we are not aware of the
State department that is actually in charge of regulating these conversions, whether
they actually have a target number or not. They are pretty much the agency on the
dime for this.
Councilmember Yukimura: I am just asking if we should have a goal.
Mr. Dahilig: I think it would be appropriate for us to have
a goal if we had, let us say, a hand in how we are able to reduce these existing
cesspools.
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, we can say no building permit will be
issued for new construction or I guess new construction is already covered.
Mr. Dahilig: New construction is...
Councilmember Yukimura: There are many ways we could enforce it. It
goes the same for all of these things that are being suggested. If we were going to
talk about your first watershed action, "Review State Department of Land and
Natural Resources (DLNR) forest reserve plans when development is adjacent to
forest reserves." The way to do that is to say, "Incorporate into our zoning and
permitting system a requirement for review prior to permit issuance," or something
like that, right?
Mr. Dahilig: I think that is why it is under Section A as a
header for Permitting and Code Change. As part of our normal process when we are
reviewing discretionary permits, these evaluative measures are meant to be clearly
outlined for a regulatory planner to be able to cross-reference these documents. So
that is exactly what you are stating would happen in the process. That is why it is
under the Permitting and Code Change section.
Councilmember Yukimura: So you do not mind if we just make it more
specific, incorporate into the permit system a requirement of review, or is that already
implied?
Mr. Dahilig: It is implied because anytime when we have
to review a discretionary permit, we have to provide a report to the Planning
Commission, whether or not the proposal is or is not consistent with the General Plan.
That is where we would have to earmark to the Planning Commission whether or not
a proposal is not consistent with the reserve plan. So we would have to highlight that
as a measure.
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 25 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
Councilmember Yukimura: How are your young planners going to do that
when you are gone? Unless you incorporate it...they are not going to read this whole
General Plan and check, unless you are going to do a checklist. Is that your intention?
Mr. Dahilig: Or I could be Planning Director forever.
Councilmember Yukimura: I do not even know if you can track it, even if
you are the Planning Director forever.
Mr. Dahilig: The benefit and also the drawback of the
discretionary permitting process is that these evaluative types of standards that we
have to look at whenever something is proposed has to be done, essentially not by a
simple spatial analysis, but has to be done by hand. Why the plan again is structured
in the method that it is structured is to provide the end user a very clear way to search
the overall planning document to go through that evaluative process. The best we
can do is tag it in a manner and that is why we have structured the action items as
such to be able to have these regulatory planners find the qualitative, evaluative
types of statements to compare an action that is proposed by a permit, whether or not
is consistent with the General Plan.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay, so your application is going to say, "A),
is it consistent with the General Plan? It is adjacent to a State DLNR Forest Reserve.
If so, have we reviewed the State DLNR plan?" Is that how you are going to do it?
Mr. Dahilig: That is probably how we already do it, not
specifically with a DLNR plan per se, but that is how we would do it when we are
looking at how to ensure consistency with the General Plan. One other layered
element here is when we go through permitting, we also send the permitting
applications over to our sister agencies in what we call a "360 review." If we notice
that on the map that it is right next to a forest reserve, we would naturally send it
over to DLNR Forestry and ask, "Hey, what do you think of this application?" We
would try to hit it from both angles.
Committee Chair Chock: We have other questions from other Members.
Councilmember Yukimura: Go ahead.
Committee Chair Chock: Councilmember Kawakami.
Councilmember Kawakami: So the State enacted a tax credit for the
conversion of cesspool to septic system and some of the requirements and it is a ten
thousand dollar ($10,000) tax credit; how much does a septic system generally cost
for a home?
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 26 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
Mr. Dahilig: I have heard an upwards of thirty thousand
dollars ($30,000) to forty thousand dollars ($40,000).
Councilmember Kawakami: I know that part of the controversy is the
requirement that the structure needs to be located two hundred (200) feet within an
ocean, a stream, or a drinking water source. One of the controversies is, "Hey, these
people that are living two hundred (200) feet from the ocean generally can afford to
upgrade a septic system, so why are we as taxpayers subsidizing these conversions
when most of these people are rich?" That was the discussion, but since then, there
was only like, at the time an article came out, there was something like nine (9)people
that actually applied. Have we figured out what it takes? Do we need to kick in a
property tax exemption? I know the heavy-handed way is just to say if you need a
remodeling or any type of building permit, then that is a heavy-handed way, but have
we given thought as to what kind of incentive-base we could kick in?
Mr. Dahilig: Even getting to a discussion of incentives first
is whether or not there is even an awareness of the need to do this. What we find is
that a lot of landowners are not even aware of this conversion situation unless they
actually, let us say, pull a permit, or let us say, they have to hit the Department of
Health. I know that becomes part of the problem, just in general the awareness of
being proactive and actually doing the conversion. With that being said, there are a
range of people that need the assistance. Like you mentioned, some people can afford
this and some people cannot, but you cannot necessarily steer the tax credits to be
discriminatory one way or the other. It could incentivize those people that, let us say,
are in a lower income bracket that have problems even maintaining their current
home to go ahead and make these changes, but what we found in terms of who has
changed, at least in my mind, the biggest ones have been full-out Federal grants that
have gone and done the change of what is free, then they have gone and put the new
septic systems in. There still is not anything at this point from the Federal level
unlike the high capacity cesspools, where they actually made it illegal from a Federal
level standpoint that they had to convert these more minor residential single or dual
use cesspools do not fall into that category of receiving a punitive measure. It may
take a heavy hand, like you are mentioning, to make these conversions.
Councilmember Kawakami: There is no teeth. As long as your cesspool is
working, you generally can keep going, but when there is a heavy rain, it impacts the
environment. I am trying to figure it out, because if it is an awareness standpoint,
you start questioning how many people actually know this tax incentive actually
exists. A lot of times, we depend on the architect or the builder for new construction
as they are going bullet point by bullet point on what a new homeowner wants, then
they start bringing up, "Well, how important is it for you to want to stay in your home
if there is a hurricane?" Then if somebody responds, "Well, it is very important," then
they say, "Well, we have a tax incentive at the County level if you build a hurricane
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 27 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
safe room." How much work would it take you if you were to go door-to-door? How
many cesspools are within two hundred (200) feet of the ocean?
Mr. Dahilig: Fourteen thousand (14,000).
Ms. Williams: Fourteen thousand (14,000) residential.
Mr. Dahilig: We have fourteen thousand (14,000)
residential across the island. In terms of those that are near the shoreline, I am not
sure.
Councilmember Kawakami: Those with cesspools, we do not even know
either, right?
Mr. Dahilig: Yes.
Councilmember Kawakami: Another follow-up question dealing with
runoff and I guess the mid-water shed—one of the things that was really compelling
for myself, and I believe a few others that got to witness, was when we were in
Oregon, that is a relatively wet environment and they have a salmon fishery that is
very important to their economy and a fishing industry that is very important to the
economy. So we started seeing little things, much like what we have out here where
we have landscaping, green areas, and beautification projects. What we notice in
Oregon is that they put a lot of thought as to how the roads even sloped, where there
were cuts in the curb, how they landscape to capture a majority of their storm water
runoff so that it did not impact their economy and their environment. Would we need
some sort of mandate here for us to "march to the beat of our own drum" and start
following these best practices or is this something we can kind of instill as we are
appropriating Capital Improvement Project (CIP) funds? Say for example, the
Transportation Investment Generating Economic Recovery (TIGER) grant, we are
going to be investing money; Is there a way for us to force the hand and say, "Hey, we
are going to invest this thirteen million dollars ($13,000,000), but we want to ensure
that we start moving in a direction where we start capturing a majority of our storm
water runoff, as far as the angles of our streets, curb cuts, and where the landscaping
is, and how it is even built into the environment so that we can start capturing more
of the runoff"? Do we need a mandate or is that something that we can go off on our
own and just say use the best standards?
Ms. Williams: I think that there are two (2) chances for us
to look at doing that to County projects and to code change, changing our development
standards to encourage those kinds of best practices more and they are identified on
page 104 in the mid-watershed section for permitting and code change under Action
A.1, we do acknowledge that we can avoid impacts to our recharge areas and to
floodplains to standards and have a list and 1.D, says, "Incorporate trees, rain garden
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 28 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
swales, green roofs, and other features that mimic natural systems." Also, under
C.1.2, to use green infrastructure concepts and best management practice and
practices in County projects as well.
Councilmember Kawakami: Very good. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: If I could follow-up, I know you said
(inaudible), so you know what we are talking about with the natural filtration system
as what they invested in. My understanding was that it was an investment and
because of the surrounding area and (inaudible) and so forth. Is that feasible in our
climate, to what degree, and how much will it impact development? I kind of want to
move towards...this is great and I think even more so, I think what the question I
hear is what kind of actions can we also start to move towards that are going to move
us in that direction?
Mr. Dahilig: As you have experienced, "the Devil is in the
details" and how you actually prescribe the standards for that type of development
really are incumbent on how you tell people to design it. The reality, moving forward,
is that much of the plan that from a growth management standpoint has been focused
on infill and existing infrastructure. So the idea of creating a sprawled road network
is not...you are not going to see that as much as you would have in previous iterations
of the General Plan, simply because we are aware that we are trying to reduce that
footprint. With that being said, a lot of these types of measures or these types of
techniques to capture more of the rainwater is really going to be incumbent on the
County to look at retrofits. Case in point, if you do look along Hardy Street, you will
see some attempt as trying to use rain guards as a way to try to control some of the
runoff as sort. So there was some green design implemented there. What is being
integrated with what the Department of Public Works is doing right now is trying to
create a more robust design standard for how to deal with the streets, not only how
you move along the streets, but how you take care of these types of drainage
situations. It really will be incumbent on retrofitting of existing streets, or if there is
more intense development, whether they are in lieu fees that are paid into the County
coffers to actually incentivize these types of changes. In terms of green fill
development, the design standards that are coming from out from the Department of
Public Works will also apply to it. Again, we are not forecasting a large amount of
green fill development to be undertaken, should this plan get adopted.
Committee Chair Chock: Another aspect that has been brought up is
sort of that regional approach to planning these drainage systems, because I know
you have a lot...Rupert keeps talking about it. Really, you have Sheraton and
everybody down there (inaudible), so everything flows in that direction. Is that a
need? I see some of the testimony moving in that direction of looking at sort of
database or even systems of how it is we are looking at this regionally. Is that here?
Is there more that needs to be done? Is that there already?
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 29 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
Mr. Dahilig: If you look at B.2...
Committee Chair Chock: D.2?
Mr. Dahilig: "Bravo" 2.
Committee Chair Chock: Oh, B.2, okay...
Mr. Dahilig: This idea of understanding that these are
systems is actually quite novel. It is not novel in the sense that it has been around
in many other areas of the world, but as it relates to how we, as a County, approach
our own Wastewater Management working together and actually looking at more
natural ways of trying to retain the water versus singular developable detention
basins are the types of discussion points that we need to migrate toward this more
integrated management. One of the things that we are looking at with respect to,
like even the Koa`e Development for housing in between Po`ipu and Koloa is whether
or not it makes sense to create passive parks as a means of creating dual usage versus
having something just sit at this bowl that does not get used. That is also being
integrated in a lot of other of the smaller developments where passive parks can be
used as a means of detention versus something that is just as whole in a development.
That is why if you look at A.5 on page 104, it is something that we are also trying to
compel on designers if they come through the County Planning Department for a
permit that they explore beyond what has been the traditional engineering solution,
which has been just to create a detention basin. It is a waste of land, it is a safety
hazard, and it is a waste of resources, and frankly, creating space that can be used
three hundred sixty (360) days out of the year and the other five (5) is filled with
water, then you get the best of both worlds.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you. Anymore questions on
watershed? Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: So staying on page 104, all of these things
under permitting and code changes, we are going to...I guess we will address that in
implementation, but I am presuming that within one (1) year, these will be
incorporated?
Mr. Dahilig: Ultimately, these set the tenor, as required by
State law, for us to be able to then present ordinances that can be adopted and
implemented. That is why the phrase "code change" is also included as part of the
permitting element, because where we have discretionary ability over a permit, we
can create these types of measures as conditions of approval. So that is where the
two (2) kind of go hand-in-hand. But whereas it becoming a part of the overall County
Code system from a regulatory standpoint, it would require an ordinance, so those
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 30 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
are the types of things that...Marie, if this does pass, her work is not going to be
done...she is going to be working with different stakeholders on different code change
items to try to start presenting packages to the Council to actually have the code
aligned with the General Plan.
Councilmember Yukimura: So number 2 says, "Reduce erosion and retain
sediment on site during and after construction"—Is that not required by law already?
Mr. Dahilig: It is already a National Pollutant Discharge
Elimination System (NPDES) requirement, but it is worth restating.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. So I guess we are not just on 2; we can
talk about anything in watershed?
Committee Chair Chock: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Under the objective of the coastal areas and
shorelines objective, "To protect and enhance coastal resources and to protect and
enhance public access to the shoreline"—that is your goal, right?
Mr. Dahilig: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: What do you mean by "enhance public
access"?
Mr. Dahilig: I think when you look at the interplay
between sea-level rise and the retreat of our shorelines, the Ashford Case before the
Hawai`i Supreme Court that delineates where the boundary between the State's
landownership and private landownership migrates as the shoreline retreat. So what
becomes critical for us is that we want to ensure that the coastal resources are able
to operate in a natural fashion so that consequential lateral access along the shoreline
given the Ashford Case is preserved to the greatest extent possible.
Councilmember Yukimura: Do you address lateral access?
Mr. Dahilig: You can probably go to...
Ms. Williams: It would be in the axis section in...
Councilmember Yukimura: I am sorry, I cannot hear you...
Mr. Dahilig: We are still flipping over to the axis section so
that we can point out something to you. So if you look at page 207...
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 31 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
Councilmember Yukimura: Page 207?
Mr. Dahilig: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: What are we looking at?
Mr. Dahilig: Paragraph 4.1, which would be at the bottom
right-hand corner of the page.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. "Improving access to the shoreline."
Mr. Dahilig: What we get into is a broad discussion of what
State law already protects, which is that lateral access. As we know and there has
been recent discussion at the Council concerning those that are trying to gain the
natural environment to retain and protect their own personal and private property
interest. So that is why the two (2) kind of go hand-in-hand with respect to recreation
and the ability to have that lateral access, but also at the same time, ensuring that
our near coastal environments are able to operate as a system in a natural way.
Councilmember Yukimura: How are you embodying that thought in any
implementation or action?
Mr. Dahilig: Again, it is law, and within the jurisdiction
and the structural setup of who ensures that line migrates is partly a jurisdictional
issue with the State DLNR. So the Office of Coastal and Conservation Lands has the
hand in that enforcement. Ultimately, the situation that is inhibiting this natural
migration or retreat of the shoreline is anthropological. It is not environmental. It
really is an enforcement issue that is already well-memorialized both in State statute,
County statute, as well as State case law.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
Mr. Dahilig: For instance, if you look at D.9, that is why it
is under partnership needs, "Manage lateral shoreline access concerns, including
vegetation that encroaches along the beach transit corridor."
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay, so that is mentioned of lateral access in
your action items?
Mr. Dahilig: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. You have under, since we are here on
this page 209, "Require minimum access width of ten (10) feet." Is that a standard
practice?
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 32 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
Committee Chair Chock: What is that? Oh, I see it.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, A.1. You will not reject an access if the
only thing you can get is...
Mr. Dahilig: There is already a subdivision ordinance
concerning the interval and character of these types of accesses as part of a
subdivision application, but it does not carry through to the discussions when you get
into discretionary permitting. Again, it is numerated only in Chapter 9, not in
Chapter 8. So providing that degree of consistency on the character and type of
County access should probably be carried through regardless of whether it is a
subdivision action or discretionary permit.
Councilmember Yukimura: So is that something you will address?
Mr. Dahilig: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Coming back to page 105, the issue of public
access and protecting coastal resources are sometimes contradictory and we learned
that when we acquired Crater Hill in Kilauea, which is an area that because the main
mission is to protect the seabirds, we had to restrict access, we all gave up our
rights...it was not a right...it was a privilege of going to that grassy null and drinking
wine and cheese and watching the sunset, because it got barred off. It was hard for
people to make that tradeoff, but we did make it as a community. I believe the Office
of Hawaiian Affairs (OHA) raised that issue with respect to axis to cultural sites. I
wondered if there was any discussion about that balancing act that is very critical,
because it not just had public access everywhere and anywhere, because it could have
impacts on coastal resources, historic sites, and other...there could be these negative
interactions. Is there any place that this is addressed, because it really is a
management issue and I just wondered if there could be management guidelines?
Mr. Dahilig: Yes. Ruby is pointing out to me that if you
look at page 107, paragraph A.2.D, that language could be massaged to provide the
type of balancing that you are characterizing as needed in the discretionary
permitting process. Ultimately, we know that anthropological effects on our
environment can also be a consequence of overutilization. In terms of whether or not
something like a paragraph 2.D could be massaged to include that concern, I certainly
can understand why that would be a possibility.
Councilmember Yukimura: Is that something you can come up with?
Mr. Dahilig: Sure.
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 33 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: I am sorry, I have to take a ten-minute
caption break and then we are going to 4:30 p.m., and then we are breaking so we
will try to get as much as we can get done today. Thank you.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 3:48 p.m.
The meeting reconvened at 4:03 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
Committee Chair Chock: We are back from our caption break. We will
be moving to Energy and Sustainability at this time, so I will open it up for questions
on this sector. Councilmembers, we have a couple of representatives here, like Ben,
who will not be here tomorrow. The Coalition also has a representative on their
amendments if you have questions. Again, I am going to entertain questions and
answers here at this time on Energy and Sustainability.
Councilmember Yukimura: What page is that?
Councilmember Kaneshiro: Page 179.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you. I have a question.
Committee Chair Chock: Go ahead.
Councilmember Yukimura: Ben, do you want to introduce yourself for the
record?
BEN SULLIVAN, Energy and Sustainability Coordinator for the Department
of Economic Development: Ben Sullivan, Energy and Sustainability
Coordinator.
Mr. Dahilig: Mike Dahilig, for the record.
Ms. Williams: Marie Williams, for the record.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you for a very good section, Ben. So my
question was, on page 183, and maybe we can show that, Yvette, if possible, but you
are showing the...this is Hawai`i's greenhouse gas emissions, so this is a State graph
based on State data.
Mr. Sullivan: That is correct. That is actually a 2007
emissions across the State of Hawaii.
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 34 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. We are doing an excellent job, far
better than O`ahu, in terms of having our electric power move toward renewables and
increase self-sufficiency, right?
Mr. Sullivan: Yes, the Kaua`i Island Utility Cooperative
(KIUC) is really leading the way in terms of addressing it, for sure.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, leading the way, not only in the State,
but I think in the country. Kudos to KIUC and all of the people who have worked. I
know you worked hard on the conversion of streetlights to solar, right?
Mr. Sullivan: It was not solar, it was actually switching over
the Light-Emitting Diode (LED) lights.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
Mr. Sullivan: We worked in partnership with KIUC and I
think it was very successful and we are saving a lot of money and reducing our energy
use quite a bit and our emissions as well.
Councilmember Yukimura: So it shows that actually addressing
greenhouse gases can actually save money, not just cost money.
Mr. Sullivan: Absolutely. I think especially when you
consider future volatility in fossil fuels and obviously we have seen over the last
decade and we are going to continue to see. We ever know where the price is going to
go, whether up or down and how much. So to the extent that we can rely on fixed
(inaudible) contracts through renewable energy and to the extent that we can reduce
or energy use, we are better off.
Councilmember Yukimura: That is one of the stunning accomplishments
of KIUC that even as they had to invest a lot of money in renewables, they have also
been able to not only stabilize the electric rate, but reduce it.
Mr. Sullivan: Absolutely. We cannot say enough good
things about KIUC. The Mayor has made it a priority to partner with them and to
look for opportunities to support them and he tasks me with that every day, so we are
very happy with our progress.
Councilmember Yukimura: So the real difficult nut to crack, so to speak,
is transportation. As you can see, I do not think we deviate from that chart as an
island in terms of greenhouse gas production, right? Do we not produce more
greenhouse gases from our transportation sector?
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 35 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
Mr. Sullivan: Inclusive of air transportation, yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay, so this twelve point five eight
percent (12.58%) is surface water and land transportation?
Mr. Sullivan: Correct.
Councilmember Yukimura: Do we have a breakdown?
Mr. Sullivan: We can certainly send you the data and the
breakdown. I do not have it with me, but we are happy to forward that to you.
Councilmember Yukimura: I guess the good news is that we do have a
land transportation plan that will also, if implemented, reduce greenhouse gases?
Mr. Sullivan: That is correct. In other cases, you were
describing added benefits, so reduce greenhouse gases, but we also save costs, provide
better transportation systems, and safer, all of that.
Councilmember Yukimura: If we implement our plan?
Mr. Sullivan: Correct.
Councilmember Yukimura: The plan was adopted in 2013 and we are now
four (4) years into our plan. How have we been doing in terms of greenhouse gas
emissions from our land transportation system? Does anybody know? Marie, you
have been heading the GetFit/Built Environment Committee and you have been
tracking vehicle miles traveled, which is a correlative of greenhouse gas.
Ms. Williams: That is true. It is actually the State that
tracks our average annual Vehicle Miles Traveled (VMT), both by car and islandwide
as well. I probably should not say that I do not recall, but perhaps we could tie that
to the amount of emissions produced per vehicle mile traveled. Greenhouse gas
emissions generated from travel on island is not something that I think we
outright...it is? Okay, go ahead.
Mr. Sullivan: So the State does track, through the
Department of Taxation, I think it is called the liquid fuels tax base, so we can track
highway gasoline and diesel. It is a little harder when you start getting into the
things like off-road vehicles and what not to figure out exactly where that fuel is being
used. When you look at those metrics over the last few years, and again, we can share
this data with you, because we do visualize it and keep an eye on it as part of the job,
it has been fairly flat. It dropped after 2007 and it has been fairly flat since then with
just a really slight uptick, maybe this year and last year.
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 36 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
Councilmember Yukimura: Vehicle miles traveled?
Mr. Sullivan: No, this is highway fuel use on the island.
Councilmember Yukimura: Greenhouse gases correlate with fossil fuel
use, right?
Mr. Sullivan: That is correct, yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. So what you said is it shows that we
have been actually keeping our vehicle miles traveled flat, but it started to rise again.
Mr. Sullivan: I was not commenting on the VMT data. I
think Marie is actually a little more familiar with that.
Councilmember Yukimura: What about our fossil fuel usage then?
Mr. Sullivan: Our fossil fuel usage has been fairly flat since
2007, and in ground transportation, again, there is a slight uptick last year and this
year and I do not know the numbers off the top of my head, but I am happy to send
them forward.
Councilmember Yukimura: I think that is even happening nationally.
Okay. Can you just provide that information over the last four (4) years, annual fossil
fuel? If there is a greenhouse gas conversion or a translation, that would be great to
know.
Committee Chair Chock: There is a question as a follow-up.
Councilmember Yukimura: Sure.
Committee Chair Chock: Councilmember Kawakami.
Councilmember Kawakami: Just real quick in tying into that, is there any
way to differentiate between vehicle miles traveled and also the fuel usage between
residential versus visitor? Do we have that impact on how much emissions are being
produced by the visitor industry when they get into a rental car and so forth? Do we
have that kind of data?
Mr. Sullivan: Great question. Actually, one of the reasons
why we want to spend a little more time on our greenhouse gas inventory specific to
the island is to dig into those kinds of issues. We have been able to tease out that
information for commercial air travel. The data is not perfect, but it gives us some
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 37 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
idea, and certainly, most of it as you would imagine, is tourists. Again, we can send
that as well. We do not have good data in terms of ground transportation and rental
vehicles. We do not have a source for that at this point.
Councilmember Kawakami: Then to promote the use of electric vehicles, I
know there is a State mandate for charging stations to be put in facilities with a
certain amount of parking structures; how many charging stations do we have across
the island and where are the biggest gaps? Are there any incentives we can create to
get some of these big shopping centers and plazas to move in that direction?
Mr. Sullivan: There are a couple of questions there.
Certainly, incentives would be within the purview of the Council to consider to
incentives to putting in chargers. I know that the Administration has testified in
support of putting enforcement within the current State law, because one of the
problems with the current State law, as you may know, is that it requires one (1)
Electric Vehicle (EV) charging station per one hundred (100) spaces. That place is a
public accommodation, but there is no enforcement for not complying. Obviously,
that makes it a little challenging. There was another question in there that I missed.
Councilmember Kawakami: How many stations do we have island wide
that you know of? If you do not have the data...
Mr. Sullivan: I know where the gaps are. Certainly, on the
west side, there is a big gap. We know that for sure. Most of the stations that we
have are in Lihu`e. There is maybe one (1) or two (2) in Kapa`a, and then there is a
couple in Princeville. There are some on the south shore. The biggest gap for sure is
the west side, especially when you talk about tourists using rental cars, because you
think that most tourists want to go up to the Canyon. You really cannot rent a
car...we have talked to Enterprise and others about how would we incentivize the
tourists to use these, and they said, "The first thing is that they have to be able to go
to everywhere they want to go." That is obvious, right? We have made efforts, so far
unsuccessfully, to try to locate a charger on the west side.
Councilmember Kawakami: Then I guess the question is how much
greenhouse gases are we actually offsetting with electric vehicles considering that we
burn naphtha and fossil fuels to electrify these vehicles?
Mr. Sullivan: Great question. I wish I had the numbers in
front of me. I can tell you that even when you are one hundred percent (100%) fossil
fuel-based at a utility, you are significantly more efficient, so your carbon dioxide
emissions are significantly lower for an electric vehicle. Obviously, currently with
forty percent (40%) of clean energy at KIUC and trending very rapidly to higher
percentages, where those numbers get even better and better as we move forward.
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 38 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
Councilmember Kawakami: Okay. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: You have one follow-up from Council Chair.
Council Chair Rapozo: I am just curious since you are here, how
much does it costs to put up a charging station on Kaua`i?
Mr. Sullivan: So it really varies and it depends because
there are three (3) levels of charging stations: level one, level two, and level three,
and those respond to the speed of charging. A level three is like a high voltage charger
and the numbers I have heard over time have been as much thirty thousand dollars
($30,000) to fifty thousand dollars ($50,000). That is a rapid charger, like a 20-minute
charge.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay.
Mr. Sullivan: A level two charger, maybe five thousand
dollars ($5,000) to ten thousand dollars ($10,000), one of the really big variables is
when you are doing it, so as a retrofit, it can be very expensive if you have to tear up
your parking lot. Obviously, there are always site-specific issues, like if you have
room in your electrical panel and all those kinds of things. Certainly, if we can get
people aware in the community about the State law and if we can get them to put in
those stations at new construction, then there are significant benefits and it really
helps everything along, because there are not too expensive as part of a big
development.
Council Chair Rapozo: There is a couple that lives in Waimea that
has an electric car and they are pretty much confined to where they go because there
is no station, as far as what they told me. There is nothing in Waimea, right?
Councilmember Yukimura, you would know because you have an electric car.
Councilmember Yukimura: There is none, that is why you picked me up
once.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, hitchhiking. Just kidding.
Councilmember Yukimura: I have been known to do that occasionally. I
have a follow-up.
Committee Chair Chock: Okay.
Councilmember Yukimura: Ben, in answer to Councilmember
Kawakami's question about the fact that KIUC is still getting its electricity from
fossil fuels, during the daytime, sometimes KIUC, because of the solar farms that
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 39 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
they have, they are getting really up there, right? Eighty percent (80%) to ninety
percent (90%) sometimes?
Mr. Sullivan: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: So if people are using chargers during the day,
they may be close to or in very good proportion that electricity is coming from
renewable s?
Mr. Sullivan: Right. We have spoken to KIUC and they are
certainly interested in watching. I think the issue is the pace of the market. Right
now, I think we have just recently crossed two hundred (200) vehicles, so it has taken
a while.
Councilmember Yukimura: Kaua`i has?
Mr. Sullivan: Kaua`i has, yes. The State overall I think is
over five thousand (5,000), but Kaua`i is just over two hundred (200). We do the small
measures that we can from our office, and we support a group that likes to put on a
biannual ride and drive, so we have helped coordinate with KIUC to make those
happen and there are some other things that we have done to just share awareness.
It is a slog.
Councilmember Yukimura: I think you told me that we are putting in a
charger in at the West Kaua`i Technology and Visitor Center?
Mr. Sullivan: We have been working hard to make that
happen and it has not happened yet. I think when I spoke to you a while back, we
were this close and I thought we were right there, but it did not come together.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, it happens like that when you are trying
to move into a different vision, but what is the obstacle now? If it is money, the
Council might provide ten thousand dollars ($10,000) to put in a charger, because the
west side is really the void. There is none.
Mr. Sullivan: Money always helps, as you folks know.
Councilmember Yukimura: Is that the missing factor?
Mr. Sullivan: The obstacle previously was not, but things
have changed, so we had a provider that was willing to provide the hardware and we
had arranged a small grant that was going to cover the cost of electricity, but there
was a lot of uncertainty and the site owner was not certain that they did not
understand the liabilities they might be taking on, so there was some...
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 40 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
Councilmember Yukimura: The site owner is us, we own that.
Mr. Sullivan: Okay, I guess I probably said that wrong, the
site manager.
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, we are the owners though. It is a
County facility. We should be able to overcome that hurdle.
Mr. Sullivan: It is certainly not something we have stopped
talking about. We are just trying to figure out how to get it done.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Wherever we can help, I think we
would like to do that.
Committee Chair Chock: We have more follow-up on this.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. At some point, I will be asking for a
report on all of our County chargers because we need to see what is happening there.
Committee Chair Chock: Councilmember Kawakami.
Councilmember Kawakami: Do we have charging stations at our
neighborhood centers and in some of our parks?
Mr. Sullivan: No.
Councilmember Kawakami: We do not?
Mr. Sullivan: How much should it be? Ten thousand
dollars ($10,000)? Okay. I think philosophically, the question is how much do the
purchasers of these electric vehicles pay into the infrastructure that is required to go
into it? Also, like some of the car dealerships that are making money, how much skin
are they putting into the game? It is one of those philosophical questions where who
pays for the infrastructure? A public sector...I think we should set the tone if we
really want to prioritize electrifying our vehicles and reducing greenhouse gas
emissions. By all means, we should be leading by example and I think some of the
discussion is, "Hey, why we do not start off with our parks and neighborhood centers."
These are places that oftentimes have empty parking stalls during the weekday. The
weekends would be a little busier, but from Monday through Friday, we already have
under our own domain and control, properties that we could utilize. In the next
upcoming budget, hopefully we can see some kind of proposal from the
Administration as to where we can fill in the gaps with our existing infrastructure
and our existing facilities. Thank you.
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 41 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
Committee Chair Chock: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: As Ben said, there are chargers, but if they do
not work, it is like not having a charger and I have been at the Sheraton and at
Safeway and I have not been able to make them work. I am naming them because I
hope the owners will take responsibility to keep them in good maintenance. I have
to say that Sheraton was a long time ago, so maybe they fixed it by now. I carry a
very long extension cord.
Councilmember Kawakami: You should pack your bike.
Councilmember Yukimura: But if you plug it in, the reality is on a regular
plug, it takes eleven (11) hours to fill up. It is not very functional. Even these second
level chargers take five (5) hours, but usually can get at least twenty (20) minutes
enough to get you to your next place.
Council Chair Rapozo: Wow.
Councilmember Yukimura: That is the reality of electric cars. If we want
them to be a part of the future vision for land transportation, we have to address
those infrastructure issues.
Committee Chair Chock: Any further questions on Energy and
Sustainability?
Councilmember Yukimura: So I did not see anything about electric cars in
your action plan. Am I missing it? Could we perhaps develop something about
developing an electric car infrastructure?
Mr. Sullivan: Certainly. I think the trick is—and we were
just talking about charging stations—there is a lot of rapid evolution in the industry
and that is one of the barriers to movement. I think you folks probably know that a
lot of the new electric car models have quite a bit more range. So a lot of experts will
say that people are going to just charge at home and it has always been a challenge
for a site owner. Let us say that Chair Rapozo owns a business and he is mandated
to put in a charger and then nobody uses it, he cannot recover any revenue. That is
difficult. There is some of that is going on. I hate to say that more planning is
required, but certainly, it is a two-part process. We have to do some planning and we
have to do some actions and see what works best.
Councilmember Yukimura: I want to say that mind you, I am leasing an
electric car, so now the one that I got in 2016, I can go all the way to Koke`e.
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 42 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
Council Chair Rapozo: Can you come back?
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes.
Mr. Dahilig: It is all downhill.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, because when you are coming downhill,
you are actually gaining electricity. You do not gain back everything that you use
going up, but you get enough so that you can get home to Lihu`e, maybe even to the
north shore.
Council Chair Rapozo: Really?
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. It is far better. Before, if I went to
Waimea or Princeville, I had to charge before I could come back. Now I can do either
way without having to charge. So the technology is improving. One of the reasons I
leased this car is so that I could learn how it works or does not work so that I can
know the reality of it. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Any other questions? Councilmember
Kane shiro.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: I was just going to say that I think
Councilmember was asking if it could be included into the plan, but on page 185, A.3,
it says, "Accelerate the transition to alternative carbon-free fuels in the ground
transportation sector with regulations and policies that support electric vehicle
adoption and other alternative fuel infrastructure." For me, I am fine with that
language there.
Councilmember Yukimura: We have been much more specific in some of
other areas and it probably does not hurt to add a couple more very specific actions,
but I will leave that to the Administration if you think that we can articulate some
real actions that would be good to articulate as a separate thing that we know we
have to do, then let us try it. Related to that where you have, "Partnership needs,
meet emissions reduction goals"—what are our emission reduction goals? Have we
articulated that?
Mr. Sullivan: So the CAC—Marie, you might know the
history of this better, but I believe in the text of the document, there is a stated goal
of an eighty percent (80%) reduction in greenhouse gas emissions by 2050 and my
understanding of where that came from is that it is really based on the science and
based on the IPCC. So the International Panel on Climate Change has put out
information that to be consistent with the Paris Agreement, this would be the level
of reduction that cities would need to take in the United States. That goal has been
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 43 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
adopted broadly across the country, so it makes sense from the standpoint of there
being precedent for it.
Councilmember Yukimura: So that is what this action item is referring to,
that is the goal? The eighty percent (80%) reduction?
Mr. Sullivan: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: I see on page 44, Policy 13 says, "Complete
Kaua`i's shift to clean energy," and then it does say, "Mitigate climate change and
reduce system-wide carbon emissions by at least eighty percent (80%) by 2050
through deep reductions in energy use and by transforming electricity transportation
and infrastructure systems toward the use of clean energy." In fact, that would be
another way of saying that we are creating our energy systems as sustainable
systems, so that ties into our overarching goal about creating a sustainable place or
a sustainable community.
Mr. Sullivan: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: That our production and use of energy would
be a sustainable system and it would then meet our climate change goals, so it all ties
together. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: We have two (2) minutes more. It is time to
wrap it up. Councilmember Yukimura, do you have any last questions?
Councilmember Yukimura: I have one last question if nobody else has one.
On page 182, "Objective: to acknowledge the human contribution to global warming,
and reduce Kaua`i's greenhouse gases." Can we say by eighty percent (80%) by 2050?
Ms. Williams: It is in the policy. The target is in the policy
statement of the eighty percent (80%) reduction.
Councilmember Yukimura: I thought the objective would be to be even
more specific with deadlines? I do not see a plan to do that very major reduction. You
have a goal and you have objectives; objectives have to be more specific...well, it does
not have to be.
Ms. Williams: Yes, and we do acknowledge that further
planning goal that we will need to do that to really articulate the steps towards
achieving that goal through a Climate Action Plan.
Councilmember Yukimura: Right, and that is your first action under
plans and studies, "Develop a Climate Action Plan," and the plan then automatically
SPECIAL PLANNING
COMMITTEE METING 44 NOVEMBER 29, 2017
has as a goal, "Reduction of eighty percent (80%) by 2050." You have a baseline
reduction, right? You are going to reduce it from something? Like in our Multimodal
Plan, we are reducing it from 2010 vehicle miles traveled.
Mr. Sullivan: I know there was discussion on the baseline, I
just do not recall offhand if it was in 1990 or 2005, but those were the two that the
CAC discussed.
Councilmember Yukimura: I think that baseline should be in the other
goal, too. You are going to reduce it from something. Okay.
Committee Chair Chock: At this time, I am going to move us to a recess.
Members, we have minimum quorum tomorrow, only four (4) of us, so we have to be
patient and I just want to remind all Members and if we can be here on-time at
8:30 a.m. to start.
Councilmember Yukimura: You have to use the bathroom before we start
the meeting.
Committee Chair Chock: Yes, and give me the signal if you have to stop.
We will be starting with public testimony in the morning. Thank you everyone for
attending. At this time, we will recess the Special Planning Committee Meeting for
today.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 4:28 p.m.
11/30/2017
SPECIAL PLANNING COMMITTEE
MINUTES
ON
BILL#2666
(GENERAL PLAN UPDATE)
MINUTES
Special Planning Committee
Honorable Mason K. Chock
Honorable Arryl Kaneshiro
Honorable Derek S.K. Kawakami
Honorable JoAnn A. Yukimura
Excused: Honorable Arthur Brun
Honorable Ross Kagawa
Honorable Mel Rapozo
The Committee reconvened on November 30, 2017 at 8:30 a.m., and proceeded
as follows:
Committee Chair Chock: Aloha and good morning. We would like to
reconvene the Special Planning Committee on the General Plan. This morning, we
will be taking up public testimony first, and then we will be moving back into Topic 6
under "Energy Sustainability." I think we are at the tail-end of that and we will
finish up with that. Then we will move to Topic 7 for a presentation on
Implementation and have our discussion and questions and answers on that. Just
one little change or shift in plan today is that we will be taking an early lunch at
10:30 a.m. and reconvening at 12 noon to continue our meeting. There is only the
four (4) of us here today and we will lose quorum at 10:30 a.m., so we want to take an
early lunch and come back. With that, I would like to suspend the rules at this time
and call on any public testimony. Do we have anyone signed up?
SCOTT K. SATO, Deputy County Clerk: Our first speaker is Judy
Shabert, followed by Douglas Wilmore.
Committee Chair Chock: Good morning.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
JUDY SHABERT: Good morning everyone. My name is Judy
Shabert. I am a retired Obstetrician and Gynecologist with an advanced degree in
public health. My statement relates to the community health aspects of the Kaua`i
20-year plan. Many of the issues of community health, which are problematic for the
County of Kauai, relate to poor performance by the State Department of Health.
Examples are bacterial contamination of beach waters and streams, which are
well-documented, but the Department of Health refuses to put up signage to warn
people to stay out of the water. Other examples are children who are not vaccinated
for infectious diseases, such as measles, who are allowed to attend school. The County
of Kaua`i itself actually does a remarkable job encouraging healthy living on the
island. There is an abundance of parks and beaches where both physical and social
health is encouraged. The bike path is a tremendous success and the swimming pools
SPECIAL PLANNING 2 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
are open and free all year-round. There are also some glaring deficiencies. The area
of greatest concern for the health of the community is affordable housing. Forty-three
percent (43%) of Kaua`i households are "housing-overburdened," which means that
for households making less than the median income for the island, almost half of
them are paying rent, which is at or above the median rent on Kaua`i. A family that
is housing-overburdened is also at higher risk for domestic abuse, substance abuse,
inadequate nutrition, and for children, poor academic performance. The unaffordable
housing situation and its solution needs to be addressed by the Council. Most of you
were born in Hawai`i and these families are your friends and neighbors. Water
contamination must be taken up by the County as the Department of Health seems
unwilling to do so. The Surfrider Foundation does a remarkable job in accurately
testing water quality around the island. Despite providing the Department of Health
with this information, no signage is put up to warn the public. If the State will not
protect citizens in this area, it is up to the County to step into that role and work with
the Surfrider Foundation to do the right thing for Kaua`i citizens. Another major
area of concern on Kaua`i is reproductive health education in public schools. It is
basically non-existent with the exception of abstinence-only education. Hawai`i is one
of the top ten states for teen pregnancy. The teen birth rate in ethnic Hawaiian girls
and Pacific Island girls is seven (7) times the State average. There are government
programs for which the County can apply for high-risk rural areas where teen
pregnancy rates are high. The program teaches reproductive health. Just as
importantly, it focusses on healthy relationships, the development of self-esteem,
child-parent communication skills, and healthy life skills. The residents of this
County are counting on the County Council to make the right decisions in terms of a
healthy future for the island. Thank you all very much.
Committee Chair Chock: I do have a clarifying question. Are you a
member of the Kaua`i Community Coalition?
Ms. Shabert: Yes.
Committee Chair Chock: I notice that they submitted amendments in
regards to public safety. Are you the author of these?
Ms. Shabert: Yes.
Committee Chair Chock: Okay. Thank you very much.
Mr. Sato: The next speaker is Douglas Wilmore,
followed by Ken Taylor.
DOUGLAS WILMORE: Honorable Chairperson and Honorable
Councilmembers, citizens of Kaua`i and guests, good morning. My name is Douglas
Wilmore and I am a retired physician/scientist with interest in climate change, which
is a subject for my discussion today. There are two (2) general areas that we know
change is coming in the coming years. First, the weather will be warmer, the
seawater temperature will increase, the ocean will rise, and the climate will change.
Secondly, we are probably going to experience several untoward environmental
events, which include hurricanes, tsunamis, floods, droughts, fires, and possibly
SPECIAL PLANNING 3 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
disease epidemics. While we can assume that some, if not all of these events will
occur in the future, we do not know when they will occur and that is really our
problem. We do not have a specific timeline. We can take one (1) of two (2)
approaches to these problems: we can essentially do nothing and react to the events;
in contrast, we can start to plan for these events in a proactive manner. We are an
island surrounded by water. The State Commission reports that with a three point
two (3.2) foot water rise, we will displace four thousand (4,000) residents on Kaua`i.
We will destroy twenty-two (22) miles of roads and we will sustain an economic loss
of two billion six hundred million dollars ($2,600,000,000). That is not recovery cost;
that is just lost. In recent events in Houston and Florida, they have shown that for
every dollar invested in prevention saves about four dollars ($4) in terms of the
recovery effort and decreasing human suffering. A small island with limited economic
resources, we need to select cost-effective measures to mitigate the effects of climate
change. We should educate our public and our visitors to the potential dangers and
plan for adequate shelters due to these displaced populations. We should move more
essential services to higher ground and minimize building along the ocean and
floodplains through zoning regulation. We should prepare communities such as
Hanalei, which was underwater this morning, for specific problems related to low
levels of repeated flooding which result in the lack of essential services. In my view,
such low cost precautionary approaches is essential for survival and long-term
viability of our island as we know it today. Thank you so much for your attention.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you very much.
Mr. Sato: Our last registered speaker is Ken Taylor.
KEN TAYLOR: Good morning Council. Ken Taylor. I just
wanted to raise a couple of issues that I have asked in the past, for you to consider
doing a cost analysis of the buildout of this plan. Yesterday was a prime example of
a couple of issues that are going to be haunting us over the next twenty (20) years,
along with fire, police, sewers, and all of that and I think it is really important that
we do a cost analysis of the buildout of the plan so that people of the community know
and understand what we are buying into. The other issue was that in the plan, it
calls for review in ten (10) years, but I think it should be a five-year window and it
gives you a better opportunity to keep track that we are on track and that if there is
need for adjustments, they can be made at that point in time, rather in ten (10) years
where you can get off into left field and be way off the mark. I think we saw in the
last General Plan a lot of things that were suggested, but did not come to reality
because we got off the track. I think a five-year review is more important than
waiting for a ten-year opportunity. Anyway, those are major issues that I think need
to be addressed. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you.
Mr. Sato: The next speaker is Anne Walton.
ANNE WALTON: Good morning. I am going to read you my oral
testimony and you also have some written testimony as well. Aloha Planning
Committee Members. As we learned from the 2000 General Plan, any planning
SPECIAL PLANNING 4 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
document is only as solid as its foundation and as effective as its implementation and
monitoring plan. The implementation and monitoring component of the General Plan
is where the rubber meets the road. It serves as a structural test for the General
Plan, revealing how clear and forward thinking our vision for the future is articulated
in the plan. It tells us whether the County implemented what it said it was going to
implement; it tells us whether the anticipated results from implementing the actions
in the plan are being realized and we are experiencing the change we hoped for; and
finally, monitoring an evaluation serves as a valuable tool for learning what works
and what does not in achieving the future vision for Kaua`i. It not only informs about
the successes and failures of the past, but also informs us on what will work in the
future. I provided detailed comments on the implementation/monitoring component
of the General Plan in the attachment to this testimony. In summary, I would like
to go over three (3) main points very quickly: the General Plan opens with what I call
an "obituary" or in planning we call it "dead on delivery," in which a comprehensive
implementation and monitoring plan with benchmarks, those are the incremental
levels of achievement from implementing the actions in the General Plan is stated as
not feasible. I have reframed this introduction to speak of the absolute importance
to this General Plan of a well-designed and executed and implementation and
monitoring plan, and you will see that in my amendment recommendations.
Secondly, our General Plan is teetering on the cusp of being an over ambitious plan
with more than five hundred (500) actions spread across the ten (10) sectors. If we
do not have the capacity or the political will to implement even a portion of these
actions, as indicated in the implementation and monitoring plan itself, then we need
to start by prioritizing these actions. This prioritization should be based on criteria
established by the Kakou Committee and taking into consideration: a) practicality of
implementation of each action, b) the urgency of the issue to be addressed by each
action, and c) the consideration of the net effect of each action across multiple sectors.
Once the actions are prioritized, the implementation of the highest priority action
should be distributed across a five-year timeline, effectively creating a work plan with
an assigned oversight division or individual from within the County to ensure
accountability. My final point is that the General Plan lays out the forty-nine (49)
objectives of corresponding performance measures in Table 4-1 on page 217.
However, after reviewing the performance measures, most of these are found to be
without merit in terms of being a true measure or indicator of change, as resulting
from implementing the actions in the General Plan.
Committee Chair Chock: Can you summarize the rest of it?
Ms. Walton: Finish up?
Committee Chair Chock: Can you summarize it? I want to be fair to the
other testifiers as well.
Ms. Walton: Okay. These are just three (3) of the main
points to be covered in my proposed amendments as a representative and a member
of the coalition.
Committee Chair Chock: We do have you as a resource as well.
SPECIAL PLANNING 5 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
Ms. Walton: Yes, you do.
Committee Chair Chock: We will definitely get to that today.
Ms. Walton: Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Sato: Committee Chair, we have no further
registered speakers.
Committee Chair Chock: Is there anyone else who has not had a chance
to testify and would like to testify at this time? Someone from the public is asking if
people who are waiting for the Hanalei Bridge to open can come and testify when they
arrive, but I do not know if we can honor coming back to it because it could open it up
all day. So we will see what happens when they come in and how many we get. We
can also have them submit their testimony in writing as well. Do you know how many
people? Only one (1), okay. We probably we will not delay the testimony for that, but
we can always meet with them or receive their testimony in other ways as well. Is
there anyone else here that would like a chance to testify at this time? So what I
would like to do is we have some resource people here that actually need to leave. We
have Brandon Shimokawa from Kaua`i Community College (KCC). We also have
Chelsie Sakai in the back there from the Kaua`i Emergency Management Agency. I
think they are on alert right now, so we probably should ask her of any questions that
we have. Also, from the State Department of Health (DOH), we have Janet
Berreman. Thank you for being here. I know that these cover pretty much all of
Topic 6. Members, if we could the questions for these three (3) resource people out of
the way first, and then we will just continue back on the track that we were on
yesterday. If it helps at all, we will go with Energy Sustainability. I do not know if
that covers any of our speakers here. If not, we will move into Public Safety and
Health Hazards. I know Janet is here. I would like to ask you to come up for a minute
here.
Councilmember Yukimura: What about Chelsie? Does she have to leave?
Committee Chair Chock: Chelsie, too. I will ask my question. I did not
see anyone who had a question for Chelsie.
Councilmember Yukimura: I had one.
Committee Chair Chock: Okay. We will call her up as well. Good
morning.
JANET BERREMAN, MD, Kaua`i District Health Officer: My name is
Dr. Janet Berreman from the Kaua`i District Health Office. Good morning.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you for being here again.
Ms. Berreman: Thank you.
SPECIAL PLANNING 6 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
Committee Chair Chock: My question is very broad, is if you had a
chance to review this section of the General Plan and how you feel about it, if there
are things that are outstanding for you, particularly as it relates to action items and
intergovernmental relations or working together with the County.
Councilmember Yukimura: Chair, are you talking about the community
health chapter or any chapter?
Committee Chair Chock: Actually, I was looking at both that and the
Public Safety and Hazards Resiliency, so both sections.
Ms. Berreman: In my review, I mostly focused on Sector 10,
"Opportunity and Health for All," and the portions in there with a little more
attention to the community health piece. I am sort of coming into this General Plan
process late, so I do not want to come in at the end and say that there are a lot of
things that need to change in here. I think it is a strong document and I what I have
been doing is looking at it in relation to the larger Department of Health Strategic
Plan and then also to the Kaua`i Community Health Improvement Initiative that was
finalized in 2014. I think that there are a lot of things that are well-aligned between
those two (2) and that gives me confidence that this is moving in the right direction.
It is a pretty high-level document. I have spent more time with the Kaua`i
Community Health Improvement Plan and I think that kind of echoing what an
earlier speaker said, we tend to be very ambitious and want to do a lot of things and
come up with a lot of actions and a lot of deliverables, and then find ourselves a little
bit challenged to make those things happen in the timeframe that we would like them
to happen to. I think that, as with many such documents and plans, "the Devil is in
the detail" of really how we are going to implement. I see the challenge on the health
side as being really to help us all do the hard job of prioritizing within all of the things
that we would like to do.
Councilmember Yukimura: I have a question.
Committee Chair Chock: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you so much for being here,
Dr. Berreman. So you have been referring to two (2) documents that have helped
guide the Department of Health in its work here, which is the Department of Health
Strategic Plan.
Ms. Berreman: Right.
Councilmember Yukimura: And the Kaua`i Community Health
Improvement Initiative?
Ms. Berreman: Yes, or Kaua`i Community Health
Improvement Plan.
SPECIAL PLANNING 7 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Do you feel that both plans have been
fairly well-integrated here? I think the County was involved in the Kaua`i
Community Health Improvement Plan quite substantially.
Ms. Berreman: Yes, very much so.
Councilmember Yukimura: I have to confess that I never have read
through that plan, although I have been at some meetings that developed it.
Ms. Berreman: I can really briefly summarize for you,
because what I am not so familiar with is the rest of the General Plan draft. I have
not spent a lot of time with the whole three hundred (300) pages, but some of the
things that are in the Kaua`i Health Improvement Initiative Plan are probably
touched on other places, so it has five (5) big areas and a few strategic actions within
those.
Councilmember Yukimura: The problem with the General Plan is that it
is so fragmented that there is no one place you can really find a clear policy on some
things and the policy statements are reduced to a one-column page.
Ms. Berreman: For example, I think this will help, the Health
Improvement Initiative for Kaua`i, the first strategic area is the built environment,
looking at improving and specifically looking at sort of transportation-related safety,
so improving roadways, improving pedestrian and bicycle, safety, and improving
public transit. I think those are things that are addressed broadly in the plan and
not necessarily in the part that I focused on most particularly, but that was one area.
I do think that there is concordance there that there is agreement that that is a
priority. The second is housing and particularly improving the availability of
affordable and quality housing. Those are themes that I hear in many community
conversations. The third is about optimizing education and learning and that
specifically focused on increasing the high school graduation rate and implementing
the Department of Education's (DOE) wellness policy. Those are not my kuleana to
make those happen, but I could certainly support and we are working very closely
with the Department of Education around health education initiatives as well.
Councilmember Yukimura: One of the things we are looking at
specifically today are indicators. So graduation rate, for example, is a common
indicator, although if the standards for graduation are lowered, then you do not really
get the correlation between quality education and the indicator.
Ms. Berreman: Right. We have been working with KCC as
well and I think some of the ways to look at that is what is happening to our high
school graduates and their next steps. Are they going on to employment that can
support themselves? Are they going on to higher education in order to be more
ambitious? Are they qualified to do that? Our higher education partners can help us
with that as well.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
SPECIAL PLANNING 8 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
Ms. Berreman: The piece of the health improvement
initiative that is identified as Health and Wellness, specifically focused on decreasing
tobacco use and decreasing teen pregnancies and teen births. Again, those are areas
in which we are working with partners with HI-5, the Hawai`i Public Health
Institute, and with DOE and KCC. I think the tobacco use piece, the focus on vaping
and electronic tobacco products is really the next generation of that challenge and
that is huge and that is also a concern statewide. Then the final piece of the health
initiative focuses on healthcare and that is increasing access to primary care,
increasing mental health services access, and improving healthy eating and active
living.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, that is all very good. So with decreasing
tobacco use rates, that has been declining, but it is still considered one of the key
health issues on the island because it is...I guess I heard that preventable
tobacco-related deaths are one of the highest...
Ms. Berreman: That still remains one of our highest health
risks, even though you are right that smoking rates, tobacco use rates have been
down. We are also concerned about the impact of electronic cigarettes and vaping,
because they are perceived of as "safe," there is increasing use and experimentation,
even with very young teens and we know that nicotine is highly addictive and your
body is most susceptible to that addiction in that adolescent period.
Councilmember Yukimura: I can see that you are doing some proactive
planning because tobacco vaping rates are not high, but they are increasing and you
are watching that.
Ms. Berreman: Right.
Councilmember Yukimura: Tell us a little bit about teen pregnancy,
because I think Dr. Shabert raised that and I know that one of the districts of the
island had the highest teen pregnancy rating in the State at different points in time—
I think we go back and forth between a district on Hawai`i Island and Kaua`i. How
are we addressing that?
Ms. Berreman: I want to first address the data because
Kaua`i is a smaller County, population-wise, and when we start parsing data about
events that are rare, because teen pregnancy is still relatively rare, in small
populations, and then try to look at it geographically or try to look at it by different
subpopulations of race and ethnicity, then we get into very, very small numbers and
when you make those into rates, you can see why variations year-to-year that really
reflect one (1) or two (2) individuals and those individuals are very important, but I
think that focusing too much on those rates and how they compare to others can kind
of distract us from what I think is the most important issue, which is that we want
our teens to have the information and the resources that they need to develop in a
healthy way in which they are in control of their own sexuality and their own
relationships with other people. The main places that that is happening is in the
schools, and the curricular that are approved for sexual health education in the
schools are not, to my understanding, abstinence-based. They provide a range of
SPECIAL PLANNING 9 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
options and information for youth, but that is an area that just last month in October,
a representative from DOE and I attended a two-day invitational national meeting
where pairs of representatives from local health departments and local health
education districts were invited to work together and learn about best practices
exactly in this area of reproductive and sexual health for adolescents and how the
health departments and the education districts can work together. I am very
optimistic that we are on a good next step with that to strengthen that and really to
see what the appropriate roles of the Department of Health and appropriate roles of
the school district are, because some of us are health educators, but we are not
accustomed to having rooms full with teenagers and trying to talk to them about
challenging subjects, in the same way not all of the school teachers are comfortable
with the information and material that some of the health department people may
know better. Like I said, I think we are on a good next step with that.
Councilmember Yukimura: That sounds excellent, especially because as
we know, young women have a particular challenge in terms of self-esteem and being
able to look forward to a future that is one they desire. This is a really important
area. I think the statistics show that teen mothers tend to be more in poverty, to be
less able to finish higher education, and all of those things.
Ms. Berreman: I think that teen pregnancy or births are sort
of the tip of the iceberg in terms of the outcomes or the health impacts of early sexual
activity without adequate protection or understanding of the risks, so we are also
looking at sexually transmitted infections among teens and adolescents on the island.
Again, these small number issues make it a little bit difficult to really look closely at
subcategories that we would like to, like which parts of the island and which
populations within them. So I am working with the epidemiologist on O`ahu to get
that information more finally honed for Kaua`i and I am optimistic that we will have
that.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Any further questions for the Department of
Health?
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, especially because we are looking at
indicators today, what are the main indicators that the Department of Health follows
in terms of wellness for this community? Do you have those?
Ms. Berreman: Well, we sort of have a wealth of information
that makes it challenging to consistently focus on a few indicators. I have started
here in January and I have spent a lot of time on the two (2) public data websites,
Hawai`i Health Matters and the Hawai`i Data Warehouse, where there are a wealth
of indicators and a wealth of health outcome information, some of it available clearly
and reliably at the County-level for us and Kaua`i, and some of it we do not show up
because our numbers are too small. We look at very high-level things, like life
expectancy and causes of death. We also look at chronic disease indicators, so
hospitalizations for complications of diabetes, heart disease, or stroke, which are
related to cardiovascular health. We would like to look at things like obesity rates
SPECIAL PLANNING 10 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
and overweight rates. Those tend to be a mix of sampled information and
self-reported information. So sometimes it is hard to get to reliable information. As
you all are aware, no doubt, substance abuse has been very much in the news, and in
conversation, largely around opioids, but I think we need to remember that alcohol
and tobacco are probably our two (2) most used and abused addictive substances and
I have a personal interest in alcohol and the many ways in which it could impact
community health from motor vehicle accidents to the fetal effects of women who are
drinking when they are pregnant, to impact on domestic violence, child bearing, and
all of that. Again, it is an issue in which the data can be challenging.
Councilmember Yukimura: So for the purposes of a general plan, it is
interesting that you mentioned life expectancy because I think in terms of life
expectancy that Hawai`i is doing quite well.
Ms. Berreman: Right.
Councilmember Yukimura: It may be partly because our environment is
relatively so clean.
Ms. Berreman: It also is an issue of averages. So when we
have a population that is very diverse and some people are living a very long time,
and other people are living a short time, on average, it looks excellent. But when you
start delving into the details and the subpopulations, you can see that there are
disparities there that I think it is also important that we look at. I have not gone
through sort of the issues that are in the plan to suggest potential outcome indicators.
I looked at the data that was cited in the plan because it mostly comes from the
Community Health Needs Assessment of 2013 and there is more recent data
available on all of those points. The issues that are raised remain germane. We
actually have improved in just about everything that was mentioned in here, but
there are still issues and challenges for us. So I have talked with your staff a little
bit about that. I would be happy to provide a little more detailed information about
potential indicators if that would be helpful.
Councilmember Yukimura: That would be very helpful. The power of
indicators you just demonstrated, if we are showing improvement in those
indicators...
Ms. Berreman: We should know that.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, we should know that as well as if we are
not making any improvement. Indicators are neutral in that sense. They give us
good information and they give us so-called "bad information," but we need to look at
that information no matter what.
Committee Chair Chock: So the Plans and Studies Section on page 206
cover the Kaua`i Community Drug Response Plan, Kaua`i Plan on Aging, and the
Kaua`i Community Health Improvement Initiative. Is there anything else that we
need to be looking at or is that where you are engaged with Life's Choices and the
County?
SPECIAL PLANNING 11 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
Ms. Berreman: Thank you for that question. So the Kaua`i
Community Health Improvement Initiative was based on the 2013 Community
Health Needs Assessment that was done with the Department of Health, Wilcox
Hospital, DOE, KCC, and the Office of the Mayor. The hospital is obligated to do a
community health needs assessment every three (3) years. So they did another one
in 2016, but it was not as a collaborative community process, it was really Wilcox
Hospital and its hospital partners doing that, which is fine. But in working with the
folks at Wilcox and the other partners that I named, our plan is for the 2019
Community Health Needs Assessment to be a real updating of the 2013 one and a
more inclusive and community-based plan. Sort of in parallel with that, the
Community Health Improvement Initiative also we are going to be updating. In a
way, it would make more sense to update that after we do the 2019 Community
Health Needs Assessment because it should respond to that, but all of the work
groups who are working on things in this Health Improvement Initiative are seeing
so many ways in which we would like to improve it and make it more focused now
that I think we are going to be doing that in parallel, and then tweaking it after the
2019 needs assessment, rather than waiting for that to be done. The updating of that
is something that is in the works and will definitely be happening in the next couple
of years.
Committee Chair Chock: Perfect.
Councilmember Yukimura: You mentioned at the very beginning about
transportation-related safety. Can you explain to us how transportation is related to
health?
Ms. Berreman: Well, I think that the lens that people are
looking at is really things like motor vehicle accidents, pedestrian accidents, and
bicycle accidents, both injuries and fatalities. Also, if you are not safe walking or
riding a bicycle then you are more likely to be in a car and then you are not exercising
so then that gets into the whole chronic disease and active living issue. If it is not
safe for people to use what we would call "active transport," then they are less likely
to be physically active in their daily lives.
Councilmember Yukimura: Actually, I am recalling that you have
indicators in terms of most frequent cause of death and then you divide that up by
ages of young people.
Ms. Berreman: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Which is also an indicator of public health and
safety, and then would show up in terms of drug use and substance abuse problems.
Ms. Berreman: Yes. It gets a little complicated as you try to
parse it too finely, but because we tend to lump accidental deaths and deaths related
to motor vehicles, but there are multiple sources of data and information about that.
So yes, that is sort of an indicator we could certainly add.
SPECIAL PLANNING 12 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
Councilmember Yukimura: I think we do not want to parse that
information because we are talking General Plan, so we are looking at broader
indicators, but I am very interested in some broad health indicators that we could
possibly use for monitoring the General Plan.
Ms. Berreman: Sure, I can help with that.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Councilmember Kawakami.
Councilmember Kawakami: Thank you, Dr. Berreman, for being here.
Ms. Berreman: Sure.
Councilmember Kawakami: We often talk about affordable housing and
the ability to access housing at all levels, and the one thing that is compelling is with
the aging of the "baby boomers," we are starting to see a lack of assisted-living
facilities. Right now, I think there are fifty (50) people on the waiting list to get into
one. There is also a lack of independent-living facilities. Overall, it is a concern. Do
you have any indicators or any type of number that you have looked at to give us a
target of what we need to reach? In a short window of time, ten (10), fifteen (15),
twenty (20) years? Because one of the things that I have been pushing is for the State
to be able to utilize their asset, which is land, to put some of these much needed
facilities so that we can start planning, because you know how long it takes. One of
the things that I look at is in this area right here, we are focusing on urbanizing it,
creating a very walkable, bikeable community. Hopefully, we will be able to increase
some density so that we can go a little higher in this area to truly address affordable
housing. Right across the street, you have your Department of Health and sometimes
I look at that building and say, "You know, that would be a great place to put four (4)
stories of elderly housing on top." Do you have that kind of number or any kind of
indicator from the State-level on what we are going to need?
Ms. Berreman: As long as we can stay on the ground floor, I
think that is a really exciting plan.
Councilmember Kawakami: Absoutely.
Ms. Berreman: I do not have those numbers. I know that
when we look at the demographic patterns that Hawai`i, like most states, is seeing
an aging of the population and that Kaua`i County in particular has the oldest
average population in the State and I would imagine that you could get estimates
about how big that population of different ages is projected to be in five (5) years and
ten (10) years, but I do not have that information. What portion of those people need
assisted-living versus how much you can focus on keeping people healthy and well at
home? The Department of Health works in partnership with the Fire Department
and others around fall prevention and really keeping seniors safe in their homes.
Your focus on walkability and having people as they age be in places where they can
SPECIAL PLANNING 13 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
easily access the resources that they need for daily living is clearly very important,
but I do not have numbers for that.
Councilmember Kawakami: Okay. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Does the Department of Health have a
substance abuse strategic plan or element of a plan?
Ms. Berreman: There is a...I think it is particularly related to
opioid plan that they have been working on that I understand is set to be released
maybe as early as tomorrow for public comment.
Councilmember Yukimura: You just said that alcohol may be the most
pervasive substance abuse problem.
Ms. Berreman: I said the report that is coming out is focused
on opioids because that was the particular...this was a governor's initiative that
started in July of this year...
Councilmember Yukimura: It is the President's, too.
Ms. Berreman: But having read the draft, it is broader than
just opioids. It acknowledges that addiction is a chronic condition that we need to
address better. There are substance abuse programs in DOH, primarily in the mental
health side of things and I am not as familiar with the specifics of that. I know that
one of the focuses has been on an acronym that is a little hard to remember—it is
called "SBIRT," which stands for "Screening, Brief Intervention, and Referral to
Treatment"—and the department has a big push to have all primary care providers
screen individuals whenever they encounter the health care system about any kind
of substance abuse issue and refer them to treatment as needed.
Councilmember Yukimura: So the Department of Health recognizes this
very strong nexus or overlapping issues of mental health and substance abuse?
Ms. Berreman: Absolutely.
Councilmember Yukimura: What is it called again?
Ms. Berreman: "Screening, Brief Intervention, and Referral
to Treatment."
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Actually, this whole issue of substance
abuse, mental health is an area of the Department of Health that is not directly under
you?
Ms. Berreman: That is right. So child and adolescent mental
health and adult mental health both have a presence here on Kaua`i and they have
SPECIAL PLANNING 14 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
directors who report directly to their counterparts on O`ahu and they are not under
my purview here. So I work next to them and I know them, but I am not as familiar
with all of their programs and initiatives.
Councilmember Yukimura: The General Plan does talk about substance
abuse, but it has very little about prevention and only focuses on treatment and I
think the figure that Mr. Wilmore brought up about prevention money yielding a
huge multiplier effect is well-taken and applies to drugs as well.
Ms. Berreman: Absolutely.
Councilmember Yukimura: In terms of comprehensive mental health
approaches, that is something we should talk to...is it Madeline?
Ms. Berreman: Yes, Madeline and Ray Cooper.
Councilmember Yukimura: Ray?
Ms. Berreman: Yes, Ray on the adult side and Madeline on
the child and adolescent side.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Ms. Berreman: Thank you very much and thank you for the
opportunity.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you. I want to get Chelsie up here
before she gets in trouble. Can you come up Chelsie? Are there any questions for
her? We have had a lot of talk on climate change already. Do you have any specific
agency questions?
Councilmember Yukimura: I do. Hi Chelsie.
CHELSIE SAKAI, Grant Coordinator for the Kaua`i Emergency Management
Agency: Chelsie Sakai, Kaua`i Emergency Management Agency.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you for being here. You were here
yesterday, too, so thank you. I have great confidence in the Kauai Emergency
Management Agency and the work that you have been doing. My main question was
do you have any suggestions in terms of additional things that should be included in
here? I know that you folks do the detailed planning in Emergency Management and
this plan is not designed for details, but just overall approach?
Ms. Sakai: No, we did review this portion of the plan
prior to it being printed, so our input was included.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. That is all I needed to know. Thank
you.
SPECIAL PLANNING 15 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
Ms. Sakai: Okay.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you, Chelsie. Two (2) days here and
only one (1) question. We have to do better than that. I am sorry. Just kidding.
Keep us safe out there. Thank you. I am going to ask Brandon if he could come up
now. Thank you for being here as well, we appreciate your time.
BRANDON SHIMOKAWA, Kaua`i Community College Vice Chancellor:
Good morning. Brandon Shimokawa from Kaua`i Community College. I am
here in place of Chancellor Helen Cox who is currently away.
Committee Chair Chock: I read a little bit about KCC's paragraph here
and we did the University designation. Since you are here, I just wanted you to tell
us a little more about the plans and future connectivity to this plan as it relates to
(inaudible).
Councilmember Yukimura: What page is this?
Committee Chair Chock: I am looking for it...
Councilmember Yukimura: Have you been able to look at it?
Mr. Shimokawa: Yes, I looked at it briefly.
Committee Chair Chock: Page 202.
Mr. Shimokawa: I believe it speaks about our current
long-range development planning process that we are in right now. We have been
working on updating our long-range development plan or as others refer to it as our
"Master Development Plan" since 2016. It will be finished hopefully sometime early
next year. Right now, it does not have any plans to expand the campus into a
four-year university. I know the General Plan touches on that. We still currently
rely on our distance education programs with the other four-year universities in the
University of Hawai`i (UH) system to enable access for Kaua`i residents to receive
bachelor and higher degrees while staying on Kaua`i. What it does include though
that is touched on the General Plan is student housing. Right now in the current
draft, it has identified space to locate a small number of student housing on campus,
so although we do not have any concrete plans and we have not really even done a
feasibility study on whether it would be economically feasible to build and operate
on-campus housing, it is something that the college feels is necessary to support the
students on the island and to grow enrollment and grow the college, so that is why
there is an earmark for it in our current draft.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you. Are there any additional
measures that the college is taking to increase enrollment?
Mr. Shimokawa: My area of responsibility over the college is all
of the back office administration, facilities, security, and that type of work. But what
I can say is that I know we are reaching out into the high schools a lot to try to
SPECIAL PLANNING 16 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
increase enrollment of Kaua`i High School graduates. Right now, that number is
around two hundred (200) a year, incoming freshmen come from the high schools, and
I think that represents about one-third of the graduates every year, so we would like
to increase that even more. Even for students that want to continue on and get their
bachelors or advanced degrees or even go off-island for college, we are trying to expose
them to college credits at KCC through programs like "Early College." We also have
an early cognition program that targets trying to generate interest in stem fields from
an earlier age and the grade school and junior high school levels. We are trying to
really focus on bringing in the youth into the college. In addition to that, we have
several programs that are designed to bring in more nontraditional students, for
example, the Wai`ale`ale Program. I do not know if you all are familiar with that. We
have several generous donors who maintain a sizable endowment fund to provide free
tuition to pay for college for students who were not on the college track and had no
intention really or even a path to get to KCC, so that program reaches out to those
potential students. We are also trying to increase our support for veteran students.
Committee Chair Chock: The County is looking with the Kaua`i
Economic Development Board (KEDB) and others in the creative tech industry and
makers place and supporting entrepreneurship and I was just wondering if that
partnership has continued with KCC and if at all needs to be addressed here.
Mr. Shimokawa: The only partnership I am aware of that is
still in its infancy or the beginning stages of it is we were working with KEDB on
potentially leasing them land to develop a food production and education center. So
that would be in conjunction with our culinary and entrepreneurship programs on
the college and it would provide tie-ins for the students to be able to get a jumpstart
or incubate their business ideas, and also as a resource for the community to come in
and take courses and learn about how to run a business, food handling, safety
standards, production standards, and all of those kinds of things and actually provide
a space for them to...it is not cooking like a restaurant, but it is packaging and
preparing the foods for sale in stores and that kind of thing.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you. Any other questions for Brandon?
Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: First, I want to say that I am very grateful for
KCC as an institution. When I go to your graduations and see the young people, and
actually all ages, getting degrees and being able then to pursue careers and also
provide for all of the needed services and functioning of this community. I am just so
aware of what a valuable institution it is, so I really appreciate all that you, Helen,
and others are doing there. Your student housing plans are actually in your planning
track, although you do not have all of the details worked out about it, but is that the
direction you are moving in?
Mr. Shimokawa: I would say that it is a desire at this point. We
do not have any sort of plan of how to get there.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. But that is more of a planning track
than is a four-year college?
SPECIAL PLANNING 17 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
Mr. Shimokawa: Right, yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: So the four-year college...I remember at the
Chamber of Commerce meeting when Senator Inouye then mentioned it and I saw
Helen's face, because I think the vision for KCC is actually...I do not know that I
could articulate it well, but it seems like it is for a very vibrant community college.
Mr. Shimokawa: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: And that is providing affordable higher
education for residents here that could not otherwise get higher education.
Mr. Shimokawa: Correct.
Councilmember Yukimura: And then tying in so that students who want
to have four (4) years or more can tie-in...you are like a connector for them. Is that
the track you are on or the vision for KCC?
Mr. Shimokawa: I would say yes. All of our programs are
assessed...one of the measures that are assessed in the health indicators for our
programs is job demand.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes.
Mr. Shimokawa: So we want to tie our programs and services
to match the job needs of the island.
Councilmember Yukimura: That is fabulous.
Mr. Shimokawa: Currently, workforce development is a huge
need and providing students with education that will allow them to get better-paying
jobs is really our focus. Right now, the number of high tech jobs or jobs that do require
advanced degrees...I do not have any statistics or numbers off the top of my head, but
that is a lesser need than the programs that support the associates degrees or other
kinds of employable degrees on the island. If that changes over time and we start to
build more of a tech center on the island or the jobs that the Pacific Missile Range
Facility (PMRF) drastically increase, then we would have to address our plans
accordingly.
Councilmember Yukimura: So it is very interesting. You folks are looking
at indicators of employee needs on this island.
Mr. Shimokawa: Yes, in addition to looking at the statistics on
the number of jobs there are in the State and in the County. All of our career and
technical education programs have advisory boards with businesses in the
community that they get feedback on, what types of skills their employees need, what
types of degrees and certificates are they looking for to hire in their new employees,
so that is a huge basis on or it is the foundation really for what we do.
SPECIAL PLANNING 18 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
Councilmember Yukimura: And in that way, is serving the community so
well, because you are serving both employers; for example, like Wilcox Hospital and
the whole health area that is just growing so rapidly, especially with an aging society.
Then you are serving the needs of the young people who are looking for well-paying
jobs. I think your nursing program is an exemplary program and it was not started
recently, but it has fed, trained, and enabled so many local residents to get very good
paying jobs. You are tracking that to see what the traditional job needs are on the
island, such as nursing, healthcare, and looking for the more emerging needs on the
island, too?
Mr. Shimokawa: Right, so the traditional programs that are
sort of where our bread and butter were nursing and culinary, but we are...just this
past year, this fall, we have had twenty-six (26) majors in creative media whereas
that number was...I think it was less than ten (10) previously. So creative media is
potentially an emerging field for us. We have also grown in entrepreneurial and
general business programs more and kind of...I would say those have really replaced
the business technical trade programs that we had, like office assistant/clerical and
secretarial type of work, more towards the entrepreneurial field to meet the current
needs of the island.
Councilmember Yukimura: Now, you are creating people who can create
jobs besides just finding a job for themselves.
Mr. Shimokawa: Right.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Do you have any suggestion for
indicators that we could use in our General Plan goal or objectives? Right now, the
objective is stated, "To support educational programs that foster cultural knowledge,
employability, and civic participation." Actually, if you have suggestions for
objectives that we should have as a community for higher education, I would love to
see any suggestions you have.
Mr. Shimokawa: As far as?
Councilmember Yukimura: As far as the objectives of our community
at-large for higher education. You do not have to give it right now, but if you have
suggestions for that, and then indicators that can measure how well we are doing in
terms of education on this island. I know you cannot be saddled with the whole
responsibility. You are one part...there is actually early childhood education, which
I think you are also developing.
Mr. Shimokawa: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Early childhood education, K-12, and then the
higher education piece.
Committee Chair Chock: There is another question.
SPECIAL PLANNING 19 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
Mr. Shimokawa: I can bring that question to the Chancellor
and maybe she can follow-up with the Council.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
Committee Chair Chock: Two (2) weeks?
Mr. Shimokawa: Within two (2) weeks? Okay.
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, they already have the answer because it
is part of their strategic plan, I am sure. My last question is...it would be alright and
maybe better to not make any reference in here to a four-year college, because that is
not at this point...
Mr. Shimokawa: Let me also confirm that with Helen.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Councilmember Kawakami.
Councilmember Kawakami: Thank you, Chair. Thank you for being here.
My question is going to tie into enrollment, then I guess the student housing
situation. So in 2015, during my time with the legislature, I appropriated one
hundred fifty thousand dollars ($150,000) to market Hawai`i as a visitor destination,
but the target market that I aimed it at was for international students. What we saw
was although mainland universities in college were seeing a rise in international
students, and they contribute significantly to these communities and also culturally
to the towns that they are in, Hawai`i was seeing a decline. When we tried to analyze
why this was happening—we should be a destination for education as well, not just a
visitor destination, but an educational destination—we found out that because
Hawai`i was marketed so much as just "paradise," these kids and their parents did
not see Hawai`i as a place to get a good education. So we put in money and I think it
was money well-spent because it helped them bring in, in part, two hundred
twenty-five million dollars ($225,000,000) to the economy as far as spending by these
international students, of which thirty-two million dollars ($32,000,000) were
generated as far as tax revenue for the State of Hawai`i. Then it helped support...I
think they looked at it, like five thousand one hundred (5,100) jobs. Has KCC been
able to see any kind of increase in international students? Do we actually have any
international students? If we do not, it is obvious that the housing would one of the
biggest blocks for international students on Kaua`i.
Mr. Shimokawa: Yes, you are absolutely correct. I think it was
three (3) years ago that we established a permanent positon for an International
Education Coordinator on the campus and she is tasked with growing the program.
We currently only have a handful of international students and they are all, I believe,
from Japan. But housing is definitely a huge barrier and that is one of the reasons
why on-campus housing is on the wish list for the campus. It would benefit bringing
in more international students. We are exploring other avenues that could
SPECIAL PLANNING 20 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
potentially meet that need without having on-campus housing or without having any
kind of college-operated housing.
Councilmember Kawakami: Do you post family programs and so on?
Mr. Shimokawa: We are currently using some those host
family/homestay programs to house short-term programs where we bring groups of
students in from Okinawa and Japan for a couple of weeks. We are also looking at
more long-term homestay programs, but we would need a private business to operate
that. That is how it is done at the other campuses on O`ahu, so we are looking into
that as well. More immediately, we are trying to identify "housing vendors"...I guess
you can call it that...in the community that would be able to provide housing for these
international students. You are absolutely right that in order to get the students in
the first place, we have to have a place for them to stay and the international families
and even institutions that we have partnerships with, they are not even interested in
sending their students to us if we do not have the whole package ready for them.
Councilmember Kawakami: The big benefit, and you probably know,
during that same session, at the time, the higher education chair, Representative
Choi from Manoa, introduced a bill to actually piggyback with President Obama's
vision of creating a free college opportunity for everybody. We were wondering how
this system would work. He actually piloted Kaua`i Community College as being that
pilot project to kind of rollout a free college tuition, which of course never passed. If
we can attract more out-of-state international students, that helps subsidize all of the
local kids that want to get to college, so hopefully we can capture some of that market
moving forward. Has the college ever considered having their student housing right
here in downtown Lihu`e versus on campus? The only reason why I ask is because
when you want to create economic stimulation, these college towns usually bring a
lot of spending and we are trying to rebuild Lihu`e Town and we do have a transit
system that could get students to and from. In fact, students are being subsidized
with bus passes. So they would have transportation and we would not be creating
this sprawl and they would have much needed services around Lihu`e. Has the
college ever considered that option?
Mr. Shimokawa: No, we have not talked about having a
college-operated off-campus housing, but if we can create a viable plan to make it
work and it benefits the students and community, then why not? The challenge with
campus-operated housing is that by having that, we become responsible for the
student 24/7, so that brings in a whole host of challenges, even when the housing is
located on the campus. When it is located off-site, that increases that even more.
Councilmember Kawakami: It can be done because Hawai`i Pacific
University just took over Aloha Tower and that seems to be...I do not know how well
it is working, but if I was a student, I would love to live there.
Mr. Shimokawa: Like you said, if there is a viable path for it,
then why not? Just even the economics of it, if we were to get the land for free, then
it would be at least on parity from an economic standpoint. But if we have to not only
SPECIAL PLANNING 21 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
build the facility and operate it, but also buy, purchase, or lease the land, then it adds
another barrier.
Councilmember Kawakami: Well, we have some State parcels located close
by. The other question is moving forward, if we are going to put housing at KCC,
which I am in favor of, and we have a University district bill that we could surely
take a look at making amendments, but will the college be open to other housing
opportunities, just workforce housing, assisted living facilities, that could tie into the
college with your school of nursing? Would you be open to at least having the
discussion to add more housing opportunities versus just student housing?
Mr. Shimokawa: I would have to defer to the Chancellor on
that.
Councilmember Kawakami: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Committee Chair Chock: Any further questions for Brandon? If not,
thank you so much for being here.
Mr. Shimokawa: Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Who else do we have here that we have to get
through? I think that is it. I do see Melissa White from SSFM, the consultant. At
this time, I will open it back up for questions and answers on Topic 6 and any further
questions that you have. Should I ask the Planning Department to come up?
Yesterday, we ended with Energy Sustainability and we pretty much got through
that. Anymore questions on that? If not, I will move to the next sector, which is
Public Safety, Hazards, and Resiliency. We spoke briefly about that, but if you have
any further questions? I might just have a clarifying question on watershed again.
On page 100 in watersheds, it does talk about partnership needs, number 5, "Support
establishment of community-based councils to assist with watershed management
issues." I just wanted to get a better sense of what the vision was for that and how
the County was engaging in that process. I support it and I think it is a great idea,
but I am not exactly sure how that would look. I know we have a Hanalei Watershed
Hui as it is.
Councilmember Yukimura: Chair, what page?
Committee Chair Chock: I am back on watersheds, sorry. Page 100.
MARIE WILLIAMS, Long Range Planner: On page 100, D.5, I will say that
part of the thinking behind this was inspired by the Department of Land and Natural
Resources' (DLNR) Aha Moku Council, which actually serves to advise the Board of
Land and Natural Resources (BLNR) in how they develop their action plans for how
they help to manage resources and their decision-making as well. So this was more
in-line as a partnership need, something that the State might possibly take a lead on,
as they have with the Aha Moku Council.
SPECIAL PLANNING 22 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
MICHAEL A. DAHILIG, Planning Director: We also want to add that we
work very closely with Maka'ala Ka'aumoana in the development of many of these
action items. She does have a wealth of knowledge and experience in the area of
watershed management in Hanalei. So we have consulted with her quite extensively
in the development of these sections.
Committee Chair Chock: Okay. Any other questions? I am kind of
jumping around here.
Councilmember Yukimura: I have questions, but they are at home. At the
end, I am going to use some time to ask the questions.
Committee Chair Chock: Well, we can move through and get to
implementation now and get the presentation out of the way. Would you like to do
that?
Councilmember Yukimura: That is fine.
Committee Chair Chock: Other Members? We have this one (1)
testifier who is waiting at the bridge that is coming to try and testify. I do not want
to set a precedent for testimony, everyone, but I do acknowledge that there is one (1)
and I am not sure if it is written. I would be happy to receive it written if it is, so if
we can just get it up here...we already have it? Okay. We are fine then because we
have read it. Let us continue with the presentation on implementation.
Ms. Williams: Today for Topic 7, we have invited our prime
consultant, SSFM, to come and present. They did a lot of research and produced a
white paper on what the best practices out there are on how other counties and cities
implement their general plans. There is a lot of exciting things going on out there, so
Melissa White will be doing a presentation today, kind of focused on this and how
that is reflected in the draft of the General Plan Update.
MELISSA WHITE, Planner, SSFM International, Inc.: Good morning and
thank you. I will wait for the presentation to load.
Committee Chair Chock: It is coming up.
Ms. White: Okay. Good morning and thank you for
having me back. I am here today to talk about implementation. This topic, where it
fits into the overall plan, is Chapter 4. It is addressed in the topic of"Implementation
and Monitoring." So tying it back to the nineteen (19) overarching policies articulated
in the plan, the one that really resonates with implementation is "communicate with
aloha." So this is about involving Kaua`i's residents in planning and decision-making,
sharing information, encouraging input, improving public processes, and being
responsive. This is a key part of what the implementation process is keeping in mind.
There is a number of lessons learned from the 2000 General Plan. I think many of
us are well-aware of and we took stock of these lessons and we also did a review of
best practices in comprehensive planning by looking at plans that have been done
across the country and the American Planning Association's (APA) guidance on
SPECIAL PLANNING 23 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
comprehensive planning. Briefly, I just want to go through a few lessons learned and
then kind of relate them to current best practices in planning.
So lessons learned from the 2000 General Plan—what we found was that there
was not really an internal tracking and reporting system for what has been done,
what has not, and what has changed. We had to do a lot of forensics and kind of
interviewing people across the departments, trying to figure out what took stock of
what had been implemented and what had not. It ended up being quite an effort and
many people have left since that time or not remembered what was happening. So
that is something that became very clear, was kind of the gap as we did this process.
We also discussed the need for stronger linkages between the General Plan
and Capital Improvements Program to drive and prioritize projects so that there is a
clearer linkage between what the plan lays out and the spending priorities. Needless
to say, the County has limited resources for implementation, so putting the
implementation onus on the County to do everything that is called for in the plan is
not sustainable, so partnerships are becoming more and more important, not only
here, but everywhere as resources are limited further.
Finally, political will is essential in order to carry forward the objectives,
policies, and actions during the plan. Everyone needs to be on the same page and be
willing to push them forward. So going to best practices, what we see in the literature
and in other plans that are kind of at the cutting edge, we see that departmental
structure and programs are adapted to support implementation. So rather than just
piling on the responsibility for implementation onto existing departmental
responsibilities, there is enough staff time and resources carved out to allow for the
types of review and documentation that are needed. Plans are more action/project
oriented, clearly defining their responsibilities for implementation. They have
greater accountability for results and built-in monitoring practices that allow for
interim adjustments, so they may not be set in stone and they acknowledge that
things can change over time. The monitoring process is designed to allow for those
kind of corrections. The monitoring and reporting of public and transparent and
designed to keep up the momentum. So these are things where it does not just go
into a hole of bureaucracy. The public is aware as this plan is updated and as actions
are taken to support it and plans have a direct nexus to the Capital Improvement
Projects (CIP) budget, again linking spending with policy and objectives.
Public/private partnerships are incorporated into implementation and community
education and involvement is incorporated into the implementation, so that people
are not just aware of what is going on, but they are educated about how they can be
part of the process.
I am going to touch on a few of the plans we reviewed and some of the examples
of how these best practices are being applied. Up in the top right, you can see the
overall guidance from the American Planning Association. It says that "cutting-edge
plans define their communities' desired outcomes and link them to measurable
metrics that assess the results of planned policies and implementation." This is a
clear guidance that we can carry forward. As an example of that, the planned Salt
Lake document includes an implementation matrix that is reader-friendly with
color-coded topics and it lists metrics, a baseline, and a 2040 target for each of its
SPECIAL PLANNING 24 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
thirteen (13) guiding principles. Then it also has kind of an inventory of
implementation tools that are available that document existing programs and
resources.
Best practices for measuring progress—imagine Austin as one example of a
plan that clearly links policies, goals, metrics, and actions and it is a chapter on
implementation and measuring success. The city charter requires that the planning
commission and staff provide an annual report to the city council about the
implementation of the comprehensive plan, including metrics to track progress.
There are interdepartmental working groups that meet annually and they establish
priorities and assess progress, compared to the performance metrics. Regarding the
public educational component, to keep the public informed and awareness up, they
do an educational speaker series on different planning topics.
In terms of the nexus to budgeting, Philadelphia is an example of something
that might be closest to what Kaua`i has, where there is a six-year capital program
and budget that is reviewed and developed on an annual basis. This entails
considerable interagency coordination and partnership with the budget office and
various agencies. What Philadelphia has is district plans and these play a key role
in prioritizing the expenditures that are discussed at the CIP annual review. So by
linking those district plans with the CIP process, they are ensuring that the goals
and investments are consistent with the development goals of the plan.
Partnerships. One example comes from Lafayette, Louisiana where there was
a spinoff organization called "project front yard" that took a chunk of the key issues.
This group was included government, as well as business partners, and attracted
other kinds of investment so that overall there was a greater responsibility for
implementation. This program had a life of its own and took responsibility for
implementing a number of the actions that the community felt were important. Then
on that similar note, shared responsibility and getting the community involved and
informed. So much like the theme of this document, Kaua`i Kakou, where we
recognize the people in the community that have programs and initiatives that
support the vision of the plan. Utah has something that actually has that formal way
of recognizing these organizations and community members, so they do these annual
awards called the "common good awards," honoring people that are upholding the
vision of the plan. Back to Philadelphia again, there is actually a more formalized
Citizens Planning Institute that offers a seven-week course and goes in-depth into
planning, zoning, and development process and really instructs interested citizens
how to take a more active role in shaping the future of their neighborhoods and
creates a sense of broader ownership over the plan.
So zooming back into here, to Kaua`i, this is a graphic that was taken from the
implementation section of the plan and it is an implementation and feedback loop.
So it starts with approval of the plan, and then it goes through starting to implement
actions, going through the progress tracking, assessing outcomes, adjusting course
along the way, and having community input inform each of these steps along the way.
So this is kind of our visual representation of the framework that acknowledges that
shared responsibility and accountability are imperative to staying focused and
making measurable progress. In the tools for implementation, the General Plan is a
SPECIAL PLANNING 25 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
tool in and of itself. It sets the framework for good decision-making and integration
by other planning efforts such as these community plans and functional plans. Other
primary tools for permitting and code changes include the zoning ordinance, zoning
maps, and development codes, and the plan review and approval process. If you
notice, these topics are sorted by the types of actions that we have in the plan,
permitting and code changes, plans and studies, projects and programs and
partnership needs.
So continuing on to projects and programs, the capital improvement program
is a critical piece of implementation by designating the funding needing to implement
in the departmental structure and programs, again, by allowing the resources that
are needed to keep up this kind of documentation and review process to report on the
progress of the plan. Then partnership needs...that is where partner and developer
contributions come into play. I will get into that more in a short bit.
At the County level and this being a County plan, the key implementation
drivers are on the left here: the Mayor, the County Council, the Planning
Commission, and the Planning Department. But other County agencies have a key
role in this as well, so that includes the Department of Public Works, Department of
Parks & Recreation, Housing Agency, Transportation Agency, Office of Economic
Development, Emergency Management Agency, and the Department of Water, many
of which have their own functional plans or reporting requirements. So having these
align and nested in a way that supports and compliments the General Plan is critical.
Sorry about the text on this side because it is kind of small, but partnership
needs, this is to acknowledge that partners are critical in implementation and that
the County cannot do this alone. There are partners at multiple levels, from the
private sector, which includes businesses and professionals, people who own land and
develop land. For State partners, the Land Use Commission is a key one because it
designates land use patterns as well so the County zoning and State Land Use
Designations have to work together. Business, economic development, and tourism—
the Office of Planning and DLNR, as was just mentioned in the previous topic.
Health, education, transportation, and Hawaiian Home Lands, and all of these
partners have been identified in actions within the draft plan. They have been
specifically identified where they need to be involved. Then utility service providers,
like the Kaua`i Island Utility Cooperative on this island, and community as
well...community groups, neighborhood associations, and non-governmental
organizations (NGOs), which includes nonprofits and business associations. The plan
clearly identifies where partnership needs are called for. It actually includes almost
two hundred (200) actions that are identified as possible partner actions.
Performance measures. So going back to the need and the best practice to
define desired outcomes and link them to measurable objectives. So the plan
framework, if you recall, as the hierarchy of policies and then objectives. Under each
topic, there are objectives laid out and each objective has an associated performance
measure that is being proposed for it. The performance measure are where
measurable outcomes come in. There are forty-nine (49) measures in total that are
included in the plan and how these were developed was a couple of factors waiting to
their selection—one is the availability of baseline data because it is not always
SPECIAL PLANNING 26 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
realistic to collect new data or establish new processes to collect data when there are
a lot of data sources that exist. So looking at the existing data sources, how we can
leverage them and utilize them for efficiency, and to help this reporting process be
implementable. That is one factor. Another factor was to look at complimentary
initiatives that support the plan's overall commitment to sustainability and that is
the Aloha+ Challenge, the statewide example that has been also embraced at the
County level. We looked at those objectives and those performance measures and
how we could tie in the plan's objectives to those. What is proposed in the plan is to
have a biennial reporting process on these performance measures to the Planning
Commission and the County Council and to have community events associated
around those. This would be where every other year, there would be a review and
reporting process that would be public and the platform to allow the County to take
stock of where they are in implementing the plan. The actions matrix, going one level
deeper, there are objectives and then under each objective are actions. There are
close to six hundred (600) actions in total in the plan. So this actions matrix breaks
down all of those actions and sorts them by the type of action. As I mentioned before,
permitting and code changes are one, partnership needs are another, plans and
studies, and projects and programs. So this action matrix is included in Appendix G
and it assigns a unique number to each action so that they can be referred to by that.
This also identifies clearly the lead agencies and partners responsible for
implementation and it links them back to the policy objectives. This is a tool that can
be used to develop tracking and monitoring materials that can be filled out by the
different departments and used as a framework for monitoring progress.
Another idea that is new to this plan is a Kakou Committee and somewhat
similar to the Citizens Advisory Committee (CAC) that we had for the development
of this General Plan. This would be something that would be appointed by the Mayor
and would include public and private partners and their role would be to help with
review of the performance measures, establishing baselines and targets, helping with
that biennial review of what is happening with the plan and helping to keep the
community informed and engaged. Adding to that layer of community involvement
would be a community education capacity building process and this is also outlined
in Chapter 4. This would need to increase community involvement in planning
processes, would involve community events and education that would be held around
biennial reporting on General Plan progress and ongoing education to keep
community organizations and partners engaged and importantly to include all ages.
In terms of updating the General Plan, and in the spirit of keeping it as a living
document, comprehensive updates of the entire document are called for every ten (10)
years and this is consistent with what is in the County Code. This is in addition to
the biennial review to look at what is working, what is not, and any course
adjustments that may be needed and periodic updating of policies, actions, or land
use maps, as needed, to allow for unexpected changes or new information.
Now bringing this back around, I would like to just point out the linkages
between the best practices and comprehensive planning that we discussed earlier and
what is being done in this General Plan Update to be consistent with those and to
ensure this plan is on the cutting edge of what is happening with community
planning. So supportive developmental structure and programs. In the General Plan
SPECIAL PLANNING 27 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
Update, this would be upheld by a departmental reporting process to keep a record of
action and progress, so between each biennial reporting, there would be this process
of taking stock within each department of what has been done, what has not, and
what has changed. So best practices of action-oriented with defined responsibilities.
This is where the actions matrix comes in, which identifies concrete actions and who
is responsible for them. Built-in monitoring practices that allow interim adjustments
and this was envisioned through the performance measures and biennial reporting
requirements that are included in the update. Public and transparent monitoring
and reporting to keep up the momentum and that is where the Kakou Committee
would have a key role, as well as community education and capacity building that I
was mentioning. The direct nexus to the CIP budget is something that comes through
a prioritization of actions that would be done through the departmental review
process, much of what has been done in Philadelphia. Incorporating partnerships
into implementation, so that is where we have identified partnership needs clearly
and they have their own section of the action matrix. The shared responsibility is
just really encapsulated in the overall theme in the document, which is Kaua`i Kakou
and that is my presentation. Thank you very much.
Committee Chair Chock: I do not know where to start. Do you have a
question? Please, go ahead.
Councilmember Kawakami: Thank you so much for that presentation.
With the Kakou Committee concept, it kind of stuck out. Is that not something that
the Planning Commission could do or do you see better value if we were to
create...sometimes we create so many commissions and committees that it becomes
a challenge to fill them at times, and then it just gets clouded at times. Would there
be a conflict between the Kakou Committee and Planning and how would that work
out?
Mr. Dahilig: At the outset when we were going through the
drafting process, the Kakou Committee was not an initial thought. We got a lot of
testimony particularly from the Kauai Community Coalition concerning wanting
some type of external committee to the General Plan to hold accountability. So as a
means to try to compromise with what the coalition had been wanting us to try to
implement as part of their comments, we looked at this Kakou Committee as a way
to try to create that external body from the Planning Commission that involved a
wide variety of community members to promote both independence, transparency,
and accountability. That is where this committee came from.
Councilmember Kawakami: Okay. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: I guess for me, I would like to dive into...there
is this I guess you could call it an amendment. There is testimony attached to an
amendment from the coalition and Anne's work here. I do not know if you have a
copy of it.
Mr. Dahilig: Is that the one that was transmitted
yesterday?
SPECIAL PLANNING 28 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
Committee Chair Chock: I think I just got it yesterday afternoon.
Mr. Dahilig: We have not had the chance to digest...I do
have...we pulled the testimony from the coalition over the past six (6) months
regarding just specific topics, so we can definitely try to look at what our past
evaluations have been.
Committee Chair Chock: Mike, you and I have had this discussion on
the front end of this process as an area of focus, at least from my perspective. This is
obviously the most updated. It does not refer to the policies, instead of goals, and I
just wanted to get a general read from you on some of the underline because I think
that this has been amended from their previous submissions.
Mr. Dahilig: I will say that we have had over the past
fifteen (15) months since we have gone through the drafting process, the coalition
walking parallel to this process, and we have been consistently given input and
feedback on how this document should evolve and be drafted and have certainly taken
a lot of their testimony input into account. I will say that there is...fundamental
disagreement that I think our department does have concerning and what the
framework leads to this discussion of implementation and accountability. As you see
from their testimony on page 2, they are emphasizing this phrase "sustainability and
resilience" and you will see that consistently throughout their testimony, going back
to the last October all the way through January and even through the end of the
Planning Commission process. As we have described in our opening discussions with
the Council, our structure is built upon a notion of balance and that sustainability
and resilience certainly is a key component of our need to balance, but is not the only
one. When you look at how we designed our structure on page 25 of the plan, the piko
or the heart of the plan does look at sustainability and resilience, but also has to
balance other factors, like uniqueness, accountability, and equitable opportunity. So
that is why I think there has been some interpretation that our department has either
been ignoring or not taking into account their input, but I would like to state very
clearly that we do not necessarily believe that prioritizing sustainability and
resilience as the core foundation of the overall structure is the right approach, given
our public process, as well as what we have received throughout our lengthy
discussions with our community advisory committee. That being said, again, it is up
to the Council how they would like to look at structure, but I believe these were
discussions that we brought up with the Council back in October when we first
started this process and acknowledged that there was a bit of a disagreement in terms
of where the foundation of this should start. That being said, we did, back in the day,
also receive of a matrix from the coalition concerning how we were to look at
accountability and that is where the comments that we received from the coalition,
as well as these draft matrices kind of helped to shape Chapter 4 of the plan. I was
actually the author of Chapter 4 myself and I want to kind of walk you through just
briefly how we took a look at what was...besides the Kakou Committee, elements that
the coalition had brought in to us as a concern regarding accountability, targets, and
those types of things. We are a small department and the amount of staff that we
have to actually generate statistical information is already...to do so would be a
taxing endeavor given the amount of staff that we have and the responsibilities that
we already carry. So what we focused on was in developing benchmarks was data
SPECIAL PLANNING 29 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
that was already developed by other agencies at the State and Federal levels. So
when you look through the performance measures that are proposed as part of the
draft measures on pages 217 through 219, it takes the objectives that are already
outlined throughout the plan as Melissa mentioned, but has paired it with
information that is readily available, and that is where the baseline discussion
concerning the best practice of communication and on our community value and
consequentially that policy of"communicating with aloha" comes from that we know
as a department that we need to step-up and provide easy access to information that
is already out there. By providing a dashboard, we do mention in the plan that I
think one of our approaches that we are looking at is a dashboard type of system that
we can take these metrics that you see on pages 217 through 219 and update it as
each agency at the State or Federal level is already putting their information up
online. So that helps with that. It is a biennial is because a lot of these statistics are
not updated on a regular basis, as you heard from the guys from SMS that when you
look at the visitor counts and the visitor projections, the Department of Business,
Economic Development & Tourism (DBEDT) does not provide this on an annual basis.
We need to also acknowledge that as one of these metrics are all updated at the same
time on an annual basis and that is why this whole dashboard is meant to be, as
Melissa put it, a living kind of method for us to be able to consolidate that information
and provide that information to the lawmakers, as well as the general public. We do
take seriously that need for accountability and I think that need is met by us at least
as a department being able to make that information readily available. Ultimately,
as Melissa's presentation did articulate, it is incumbent upon our partners, as well as
the appropriation process in general to be able to implement. Our department's role
is only a fraction of what ultimately can be done either by a heavy hand or by action
to implement many of these facets of the plan.
Committee Chair Chock: I really appreciate all the work already in the
implementation section. I would agree, I am not advocating for a framework change
in any manner, as it might lead towards sustainability and resiliency. I do think that
what I would like to see is if there is more that can be complimented what it is you
have already done here, particularly when we talk about the emphasis and need for
prioritization moving forward. I am just referencing the second paragraph on page 2
of the last submission, which is about the five hundred (500) actions laid out across
the ten (10) sectors and to realistically accomplish the meaningful results of these
actions, it has to be prioritized. Then it starts to move into the direction of how to do
that, one aspect of being able to do that. I am okay with the biennial, I totally get it.
To expect six (6) months is really difficult and I like matrices, so I am okay with that
as well and I understand how it is related back to the benchmarks. I think also what
I am seeing, and I have not read it in detail, I just got this yesterday afternoon as
well, but when we are talking about monitoring evaluation, I think there are some
suggestions in the first level, second level, third level monitoring and evaluation.
That really could be considered in terms of how it is we move forward. I guess what
I am saying is generally speaking, I would like for us to look at those as mechanisms
for us to improve upon the implementation section and that would be my interest.
The other aspect is really on...again, adaptive management, which I think is
something worth...I think it only strengthens how it is people who are looking and
going to be acting on this plan will approach it. Perhaps, that is something that we
can continue to look at. I know that we have had these discussions, so perhaps you
SPECIAL PLANNING 30 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
have already been working on it and we have not had the chance to look back at it
and I hate to take up all of this time right here to actually dive through every single
piece in there that I am talking about or that is being presented here. I know we
have talked about CIP and how to look at that and the prioritization aspect of it. I
am just wanting to request that we do get back together on where the pieces are
connecting and not.
Mr. Dahilig: Certainly. Over the past few months,
Committee Chair, we have been already entertaining and looking at expanded
language that we will probably propose as amendments, given some of the discussions
regarding prioritization. I know that we are, as we have stated previously, very
cautioned...we caution ourselves when we get into this discussion of touching upon
prioritization that could preempt or provide some encroachment on what are
traditionally policy powers of the Council as a body, particularly when it comes to
appropriations and legislative prioritization. With that being said, given now that
we are here at a legislative process discussion point, if those are the types of things
that from a partner in implementation that the body would like to include as these
discussion points with, let us say, the six-year CIP process, how we develop it on a
timely basis, how do we show it, because right now, when you look at the Charter,
the six-year CIP process, it is not even required to be annual based on the Charter.
How do we flesh those out is discussion language that we are probably going to be
throwing up, too, as part of the amendments for the Council to entertain. I think
when we are looking at it from an adaptive management standpoint, we are wanting
to keep this flexible. The more flexible that we are with targets, with information,
the better we are able to actually adapt. It is not to say that we want to have things
without any guidance, but it becomes this "too hot or too cold" discussion that may
not ultimately satisfy everybody given how we may approach it. The language that I
am looking at here...certainly we agree that adaptive management is what we are
stressing, but how we execute on the adaptive management is a point for further
discussion.
Committee Chair Chock: Absolutely. I understand the delicacy and
balance of it. I think everyone in the room and over this process has understood that
political will is really what will drive and determine the outcome of this plan and it
has in the past. That is why a plan is there, to help the guidance and as much as
possible we can articulate that direction, whatever the decisions made by those in the
situations or in the seats. I am more focused on process in terms of articulating that
there needs to be a process in place and for clear decision-making to be made. We
will come back to that. Are there other questions? Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: Once you get a chance to review what the
coalition has provided, I am constantly battling as far as are we putting too much
information or too little information into the General Plan? I read as far as first level,
second level, third level monitoring, I am kind of in the predicament...we mentioned
creating this Kakou Committee and we do not say how many members are in the
committee and we do not put a lot of that information on, knowing that this is the
General Plan and additional information is going to be needed to put that team
together; and how is the team going to operate? I am kind of like in this battle. When
I read these amendments, I feel like they should something that is going to spin off
SPECIAL PLANNING 31 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
of the General Plan and the Kakou Committee is designed, formed, and they will
implement plans on how they want to monitor. I do not know. It is always a battle
of how much information do we put in the plan versus not? We went through
probably almost one (1) hour of information with the Department of Health on
indicators, but for me, I am kind of taking a step-back, like I do not think we should
add every single health indicator into the General Plan. We addressed that the
Department of Health has a plan and they are working on it and they are going to
monitor it. But as far as us starting to add that information in, I kind of feel like if
we start doing that, then this plan is going to get extremely large and people are not
going to really pay as much attention to just the overall view of what the General
Plan is. As amendments are going to be coming up, we are very shortly...for me, I
am going to be taking a lot direction from you folks as far as, "Should this be in the
plan? Should this be an amendment that we should be adding? Does this add to the
plan? Is it something that the plan is addressing and it is going to be another part to
the plan that comes out later?" That is where I am at and I will be looking for your
direction on that because I am sure that we are going to get a lot of amendments
coming through and there is that battle. I would love to add of this detail into the
plan, but then you make the plan so big that nobody is even going to want to look at
it. That is kind of where I am at.
Mr. Dahilig: We have used the analogy that the plan has
tried to be as "big-tent" as possible. At the end of the day, many of the action items
would be the number one priority for somebody out there that has participated in the
process. So that notion of whether or not something is more important than another,
given the breadth of what this plan affects and who is out there as part of our public
process, really becomes a challenge, because we do not want to necessarily say that
an action item may or may not be important to somebody. With that being said, we
certainly recognize that in trying to manage the amount of input and what people
have been participating through the process and giving us information, the action
items really are reflective of that community process. When you look at the
forty-nine (49) metrics that we are trying to outline here, if we start adding to metrics,
let us say, concerning how many kids are vaping or what is the rate of teen
pregnancy—these are the types of discussions that ultimately if we are tasked to fold
that it to what we are trying to put together as an information dashboard, we
certainly can. I think ultimately the big picture question is what is the story that
these numbers are going to be telling over time? Is that level of detail necessary to
tell that story or can it be told with these higher level kind of points? Drunk-driving
is important. It is an important statistic for us to monitor, but does it tell that
overarching story with how we are trying to move together forward in implementing
a land use management plan? I have my thoughts on that. That is the kind of
question that we have been wrestling with and that battle that you descried on how
to actually create that balance on what is the right information to also be showing to
the public to give that accountability, to give that measure, because I could definitely
say that things like teen pregnancy, vaping, or drunk-driving may not necessarily
give a picture of how we are progressing with a land use management plan.
Committee Chair Chock: Okay. As promised, we are going to have to
break at 10:30 a.m., but we have a few minutes if there is a question. Any further
questions right now? Councilmember Yukimura.
SPECIAL PLANNING 32 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
Councilmember Yukimura: I am just looking at the plan Salt Lake and
how compact and yet broadly-reaching and well-organized it is in terms of indicators
and principles. I think they have thirteen (13) guiding principles around which they
organize their whole plan, and then from there, indicators relating...well, they have
a very good discussion, a basic policy discussion around the guiding principles and
the indicators that are going to help them measure whether they are reaching their
goal and objectives, and one of the key points, as you pointed out in your PowerPoint,
is that they have to be measurable metrics. The quote you have here is "cutting-edge
plans define their communities' desires outcomes and link them to measurable
metrics that assess the results of planned policies and implementation." So if we go
to the implementation indicators, just starting with number one–maybe we can put
that up...that is page 217—"To accommodate and support Kaua`i's projected
population growth and housing needs." First of all, to accommodate, what does that
mean? I think we want to meet our housing needs, right? Then the draft measure
is conformance with population allocation. There is not even a relationship between
population allocations and meeting housing needs. First of all, you need a
relationship so you know that whatever you are trying to achieve is actually being
measured by the indicator, and then conformance with population allocations...we do
not even have to go farther than that because I am not sure that is really measurable.
Even if it is, it does not tell you if you are meeting your housing needs. The next one,
"to meet future housing needs through `missing middle' housing types affordable by
design"—they might be affordable by design, but they might not be affordable by
price. I just went to the Opticos website and I probably have to read a lot about
"missing middle," but I do not know that it is well-defined. It is used throughout the
plan, but I do not know what it really means. I do not even know if it is going to
achieve our housing needs, and then the measure is building type of new residential
units. How are you going to measure that?
Committee Chair Chock: Why do you not wrap up the question because
we have to end and they can respond when we get back?
Councilmember Yukimura: How are your performance measures actually
measuring what we need to know? That is my question. You can go through each
one and I would like to know your answers.
Committee Chair Chock: We will be back at noon everyone. We will
have an early lunch and see you back here. Thank you.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 10:30 a.m.
The meeting reconvened at 12:18 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
Committee Chair Chock: Aloha and welcome back from lunch everyone.
We are currently on question and answers. Councilmember Yukimura has the floor.
We are talking about the implementation section.
Councilmember Yukimura: When we ended, I was looking at objectives
one and two and saying actually that I felt we needed the kind of analysis I was trying
SPECIAL PLANNING 33 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
to do to make sure that first of all we are articulating our objectives well, and then
we are actually having measures that actually measure what we are trying to
accomplish. Our objective is to accommodate and support...well, this is a good way
to go over each of our objectives, but...
Committee Chair Chock: Councilmember Yukimura, I know they had
the question previously, so I did ask them to kind of prepare like how would we
respond to the real issue here, which without having to go into each.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay, then I should shut-up.
Committee Chair Chock: If that is okay?
Councilmember Yukimura: That is fine.
Committee Chair Chock: Councilmember Kaneshiro was sort of
wanting to move us in that direction, too.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. So we should hear their answers now.
Thank you.
Mr. Dahilig: We can provide this in writing if that is what
you would like to see. We tried to correlate a metric with each of the objectives that
was easily attainable and also had a degree of reliability. So we relied on data coming
either from the United States Census Bureau, from DLNR, from DBEDT, or could be
done using our GIS system. So generally, the level of what made our first cut with
respect to why we choose certain datasets, because we know that there is always
questions concerning data and whether or not the data that is being generated is via
appropriate methodology or via done with the appropriate analysis or how it is being
analyzed. It was for us to be able to come in from an angle that we do not have the
capacity of actually being able to generate a lot of these statistics. We can take
statistics in and produce a derivative set of information. For instance, with number
one, if you know what the average household size is and you know what the average
household size is across the nation, as well as locally, then we can compare those
two (2) metrics then we know whether or not we are in a situation where we are
oversized on our household, but we would have to take that information from the
census bureau. We have forty-nine (49) objectives that we can go over each of the
datasets that we have aligned with each of these things, if that is what the Council
would like to do. We can also provide this in writing.
Committee Chair Chock: If you do not mind, just in terms of my
request, and Councilmember Yukimura has probably her own interest, but for me, I
would like to see how we can answer some of the gaps in comprehending the
implementation piece. What can we do further to address some of the gap? That is
just my interest. I will let Councilmember Yukimura have the floor.
Councilmember Yukimura: First of all, I think philosophically, I do not
like the idea of choosing objectives based on what data we have. I think we should go
around saying, "What is our objective and how we will be able to tell whether we are
SPECIAL PLANNING 34 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
meeting it?" I think in the issue of affordable housing, the data is there, but we have
to be clear what our objective is and I do not believe it is to accommodate...to
accommodate Kaua`i's projected population, actually both the State statute that says
that the general plans should be desired objectives, not projected. There is a question
in itself. Even if we say "accommodate projected population growth," we have to say
we want to meet Kaua`i's housing needs. Do you not agree that that is really what
we want to do? We want to meet Kaua`i's housing needs. So what are Kaua`i's
housing needs? It is nine thousand (9,000) units based on your data and one thing
that was really missing from your policy analysis was where those nine
thousand (9,000) families fall in the income brackets? It is clear that eighty
percent (80%) of the need is in the one hundred twentieth percent (120%) of median
income and lower. In order to really meet the need, we are going to have to produce
housing that is affordable to the one hundred twenty percent (120%) and then we talk
about that other twenty percent (20%) from one hundred twenty (120) to one hundred
forty (140) and how we are going to meet that need. It is different strategies because
the subsidy you have to do for those one hundred twenty (120) and lower is much
deeper than the subsidy that you have to do for the one hundred twenty (120) to one
hundred forty (140). What are the criteria? How many homes have we produced
every year in that affordability range? To me, that is going to be one of the indicators.
How many have we produced in the one hundred twenty (120) to one hundred
forty (140) median income family range? That would be the prime indicator for
meeting affordable housing needs. So nine thousand (9,000) divided by twenty (20)
years, you get five-year intervals of how many houses you need and that is what we
would be checking every two (2) years...you keep further breaking it down, right?
The data I believe is available and if it is not available, what other alternative data
that is close would suffice or are there ways that we can actually structure our land
information system to produce that data? To me, that is how we would deal with
number one and that is just an example of what I am looking for in terms of all of the
objectives.
Ms. Williams: I am sorry because I am realizing that it is
not clear in Table 4-1, but each objective is tied to a sector or subsection as well, so
our affordable housing objective is actually number 13, "to increase housing
opportunities for low to moderate income households" and the indicator is new
affordable housing units. The first eight (8) actually have to deal with the land use
chapter, chapter 2.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay, to increase, but we are not going to just
increase it by five (5) a year, right? If we do five (5) a year, we are meeting that
objective technically, but we are not meeting the need. So it has to be something like
producing nine thousand (9,000) units over the next twenty (20) years. New
affordable housing units means newly available. They might be old units that we buy
and they were market...is that what you mean?
Ms. Williams: Yes, and I will also point out that the
measures shown in the implementation chapter are draft. We kind of realized when
we were drafting them that there is such a range of information out there, so it was
very difficult...even though there are a lot in here, it was very difficult to just narrow
it down to one connected to each objective. What we do realize is that more work does
SPECIAL PLANNING 35 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
have to be done, not only to refine what we are going to keep track, but perhaps
develop a baseline and then a target and if there are any interim goals to meet as
well. That would probably be a future effort through the Kakou Committee.
Councilmember Yukimura: I see that there is some reference in the plan,
but also in the text that is suggested by Ms. Walton, there is a further delineation of
the process that you would follow. We went through this with the Lihu`e plan. Has
there been any work for the last two (2) years on indicators for the Lihu`e plan?
Ms. Williams: In long-range, we have been completely
focused on the General Plan Update.
Councilmember Yukimura: I know.
Ms. Williams: Just due to the size of our staff.
Councilmember Yukimura: I understand, so maybe one of the actions is
expanding the staff so that implementation and monitoring can be done in reality.
To say it is going to be done and then not have the staff to do it, you end up with all
of these things that are not done.
Mr. Dahilig: I will agree to that amendment if that is the
case.
Councilmember Yukimura: Very good. I want to see that. That is part of
the plan, the capacity to do the work that we have laid out that has to be done.
Committee Chair Chock: There is a follow-up. Councilmember
Kaneshiro.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: In lieu of adding an employee to your staff just
to monitor and implement the General Plan, was it not the intention for the Kakou
Committee to be the ones that would go through these objectives and
implementation?
Mr. Dahilig: The Kakou Committee was really...these are
my words, so I want to be clear about that...the way we interpreted it was that it was
meant to be an independent objective body of community members that would be able
to disseminate information and be able to hold County agencies accountable for
whether or not they are meeting their benchmarks or not. That is why I look at the
Kakou Committee not necessarily as the one generating the work, rather the ones
that would look at the indicators, whatever they may be, and actually give feedback
to us as an agency to disseminate to our agency partners about do we even tweak
this? How are we doing on this? Do we need to look at other indicators? We know
that this plan and the statistics that are involved are going to evolve over the next
planning period. That is why what has been...I have never been shy about this
discussion was why we have always, in developing this particular portion of the plan,
that try to focus on things that we could already draw upon, versus things that we
would have to generate. Could we bring in a capable staff member to do that on top
SPECIAL PLANNING 36 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
of the work that we already have—Marie has the capacity to do a lot of these
statistics, but I cannot ask her to do that plus manage her staff and manage projects.
So that is why we were looking at ways to meet the overall community objective for
us, which was to try to communicate again. This is a communication tool and we are
really trying to focus on here to ultimately give feedback to those partners and County
agencies that are responsible for implementation. Again, we do not build the roads,
we do not prevent drunk-driving, and these types of things. So that is why it is
designed with that specifically in mind that we are trying to do this as efficiently as
possible. We leave it up to the Council as a body whether or not the indirect
commitment...should we restructure the implementation program be required to
yield more resources be directed to our department?
Councilmember Yukimura: May I add some supportive...
Councilmember Kaneshiro: I see you drooling when we said we will add
an employee, so I just wanted to bring us a little step back that it takes a lot to add
an employee to your staff. That is what I thought the Kakou Committee was for,
rather than going and saying, "Now we are going to need somebody to do this or that
and for this whole plan, we need four (4) more employees" and you have a Kakou
Committee. I know you are anxious for it, but do not hold your breath.
Councilmember Yukimura: I just want our Budget & Finance Committee
Chair that I have been sitting in on the Built Environment Committee that Marie
has been chairing and we have had just the small scope of trying to measure and
define indicators for smart growth programs; that is why we want to measure
whether there is an increase in pedestrians and bikers using Hardy Street and that
kind of thing. We are trying to be very evidence-based. The development of indicators
and the data to...and the monitoring is not a voluntary committee's work. It is a staff
person's work and it is quite involved. Like Salt Lake City and other cities, it is no
use having a plan if you are not going to have this other part of implementation. You
lose all value in planning if you cannot really track whether you are achieving the
planning goals. To me, this is not a want; this is a need if we want to do good planning
in this County and we want to actually achieve for this community the benefits that
this planning is saying it wants to get.
Committee Chair Chock: Will you be submitting an amendment?
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes...well, there is a whole thing about
planning organization, which...
Committee Chair Chock: You are opposed?
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes.
Committee Chair Chock: Okay. Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: I am not advocating for us to not do anything,
I was just saying that that is what I thought the purpose of the Kakou Committee is
for.
SPECIAL PLANNING 37 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
Councilmember Yukimura: It is not...
Mr. Dahilig: Just to be clear, it is not. It was meant to be
a body of community members to essentially provide that real time feedback over that
biennium to take the information we are giving them and provide the questioning
and the accountability on it. We have always been concerned about the resources
because we do not want to hold ourselves, from a departmental standpoint, to a set
of indicators that we cannot either provide as accurate information or readily defined.
I think that as you have seen again with the discussions from a community
standpoint about the veracity of the data that is used by our department and by other
County partners, it has to be defensible. That is why I think we have tried to outlay
these as draft measures because we know that some people may not like the
information that comes from State parks. They are going to say that State parks is
counting things wrong. So that is why we are not locked in and why we are trying to
emphasize it is draft measures is because we are trying to be illustrative in the types
of dashboard material that we are going to be pulling. Our overall philosophy here is
to try and communicate in real time as much as possible, what we know about the
statistical characteristics of our community and use that as a means of having the
public provide us that real time feedback. "The Devil is in the details." If this matrix
is an appropriate way to articulate what those are or it seems too finite, then certainly
it is something that we can either look at amending or we can look at eliminating it
and leaving that towards a future discussion as we were mentioning earlier.
Committee Chair Chock: I like the different options that you are
mentioning. I think for me, it is just about characterizing that this is a first step
amongst many steps that needs to be taken to move us in a direction of more clarity
and execution. That is just me. Councilmember Yukimura, any further questions?
Councilmember Yukimura: I guess my question is if we know that this
additional work is going to be done, and that is how I left the Lihu`e Community
Plan—I was starting to look at the specifics and the indicators did not look
well-thought out and they did not match, but I said, "Okay, we are going to leave it
to a further process," then what do we do with this? To me, there should at least be
a match. There should be a real agreement about the objective and then there should
be some agreement about what is the form of the data that measures objective...are
progress towards the objectives, and then you can figure out the details. You can
figure out, "Oh, is the data available? How would we get it?" I think we have to be
real clear about the objective. For example, if you go to the second one, "to meet
future housing needs through missing middle housing"—my question today, what is
the definition of"missing middle"?
Mr. Dahilig: It is actually in the definition section.
Councilmember Yukimura: Very good. Where is that?
Mr. Dahilig: It is on page 10. We actually take the
information from Opticos' website as a means of trying to talk about what "missing
middle" is. I know it is a fluid discussion that many people do have an opinion about
SPECIAL PLANNING 38 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
with respect to what is "missing middle," but we have taken a definition from our
consultant for form-based code.
Councilmember Yukimura: Can I read it for the public? Maybe we can
put it up. Number 10, page 10, "Missing middle housing means housing located
within walking distance to shops and amenities, filling the gap between single-family
homes and apartment buildings." So what of the nine thousand (9,000) units that our
housing needs assessment has said we are going to need for the next twenty (20)years
is missing middle housing?
Mr. Dahilig: When we talk about missing middle housing,
what we are trying to emphasize is that it is a product type, not necessarily an income
range. It is a product type. The emphasis has always been affordable by design and
we have talked about that from a form-based code standpoint. There is not
necessarily a rubric per se that says, "This specific type of missing middle product is
meeting this specific income bracket," but what we are aware of is between
single-family and apartment buildings, there is flexibility in the product type via the
implementation of things like form-based code that can provide a little bit more
compact feel, but yet have a higher degree of privacy then you will with an apartment
building. It is not to drill down to specifics, because again it is a high-level land use
plan, but what we are emphasizing is the product type and we are emphasizing that
affordability by design, not necessarily by bracket.
Councilmember Yukimura: I was looking at the Salt Lake City plan and
what is really missing from even our affordable housing policy statement is there is
no emphasis on affordability, which is the key. You can have a lot of houses and if
the people within the one hundred twenty percent (120%) of median income and lower
cannot afford it, we are not meeting our housing need. To me, that is our main
objective. I do think that other than the single-family is going to be necessary to meet
that affordability criteria. Right now, it says to "meet future housing needs through
the missing middle." If the missing middle is not in the affordable brackets by price,
it is going to be nice in terms of some variety of housing, but it is not going to meet
our main housing need. If our objective, and I guess it is for the Council to decide, is
affordability important in addressing housing need? If that is the case, then our main
focus has to be on providing affordable housing. I believe that multifamily housing,
a variety of those kinds of housing, is going to be part of the solution. If you just say,
"These types of housing are what we are going to focus on," it is not going to meet the
affordability criteria. Our efforts have to dovetail.
Mr. Dahilig: I think the truth lies in between whether or
not the design or the regulatory affordability of units is going to help solve the
problem. Ultimately, we have said time and time again during discussions regarding
housing that as much as the County Housing Agency does a great job in providing
units, it pales on the scale of what is going to be demanded over the next almost
twenty (20) years.
Councilmember Yukimura: That is why we have to be so focused.
SPECIAL PLANNING 39 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
Mr. Dahilig: So that is why it also requires that the codes
are either narrow or flexible enough to encourage the private sector to also come in
and provide some of these unit types that we cannot from a County Housing Agency
can provide on its own. We are looking at volume here and it is a very high amount
of volume that in reality cannot be tackled by the County alone.
Councilmember Yukimura: I totally agree with you, Mike.
Mr. Dahilig: As this is a land use regulatory plan, why we
are focusing on diversification of housing type is a means to provide more of a
gradation in how the affordability of product on the island actually sorts out. We are
not going to have the whole ability to dictate via regulation, the price of every single
unit on the island. So that is why we are looking at diversification as a means of
providing that ability to actually sort out those affordability brackets a little more.
Right now, we do not have the diversification of housing type that would allow that
for that to sort out.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay, but if we get a lot of those housing types
and they are not affordable, we are not going to be addressing our need. The question
is how do you...what I hear you say is just supply...supply is going to bring the price
down, but in Hawai`i...look at how much supply there is on O`ahu. If they go to second
homes...a lot of missing middle homes would be so wonderful in Po`ipu for vacation
rentals. That is the question, how are we going to make sure that this missing middle
that you say is going to help our housing supply is going to be affordable?
Mr. Dahilig: It gets into the question of how much of a
regulatory hand do you want to have in the availability of these units? Ultimately,
by the projection of nine thousand (9,000) units needed by the year 2035, it is part
and parcel a supply problem, so we have to look at it from a supply standpoint. We
cannot just say that that nine thousand (9,000) number is a figment of imagination.
Councilmember Yukimura: You still have not answered the question, how
are you going to make sure that supply is affordable?
Mr. Dahilig: How we get to that again is a discussion that
we have had in previous meetings concerning what are the bounds of the County's
ability to regulate who can purchase units or how we exact units. This becomes a
constitutional question...
Councilmember Yukimura: No, it does not.
Mr. Dahilig: I disagree, but it does become a constitutional
question.
Councilmember Yukimura: You are only looking at the regulatory process
to provide housing. There is a whole other arena if you look at how the County has
been providing housing and the use...
Mr. Dahilig: Well, we do have...
SPECIAL PLANNING 40 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
Councilmember Yukimura: Excuse me, I am not finished...
Mr. Dahilig: Okay, I am sorry.
Councilmember Yukimura: And using the inclusionary zoning more
effectively to actually provide housing. If you look at Koa`e, we have done that and it
is going to be permanently affordable. Those are the kinds of things that need to be
addressed in the affordable housing policy statement.
Mr. Dahilig: As stated throughout the plan, if the County
were to rely on affordable housing exactions as a means of providing the delta that
we are seeing by the year 2035, you would essentially have to flood the market with
the number of high-priced homes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Not true.
Mr. Dahilig: Koa`e is actually premised on an affordable
housing to build Kukui`ula. In order to be able to build something in that range, even
if it is within the bounds of constitutional nexus and a proportionality, you would
have to offset that by the amount of product that you are seeing right now being built
in Kukui`ula. Again, that ultimately becomes a regulatory issue. That is why I
disagree...
Councilmember Yukimura: It is partly a regulatory issue.
Mr. Dahilig: If I could finish, that is what I am saying that
it is a regulatory issue and partly it is a supply issue. So how those two (2) intermesh
with each other is what we are essentially we are saying in where this is a land use
regulatory plan and that deals with form and character of communities—what we are
saying is, "Yes, let us look at trying to diversify the product more" because right now
we do not have diversification of product on the island.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. I do not have any objection to that, but
I do not see how we are...that is fine, as long as we are achieving our affordable
housing goals. Kaua`i Lagoons has permits for eight hundred fifty (850) units of
luxury condos. They were supposed to provide one hundred (100) units of affordable
housing. Because of poor land use policy exaction process, Courtyards at Waipouli is
affordable...their affordability is going to be up in 2019, so eighty-two (82) units are
gone and twenty-five (25) units that are right by the industrial plant were affordable
only until 2008 and then we released them from their requirements, except for
three (3) units, which we bought. You can see that our implementation of our housing
regulatory powers was extremely poor, whereas in Koa`e, because we shared the cost,
they gave us the land and offsite infrastructure and we built the vertical buildings on
on-site infrastructure, we are able to provide permanently affordable housing in
perpetuity in Koloa-Po`ipu at a workplace. You can see that how we structure our
regulatory process can yield more affordable housing long-term and that is one of the
issues that should be addressed in our housing policy.
SPECIAL PLANNING 41 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
Mr. Dahilig: I do not disagree with that.
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, then it needs to be in the plan.
Mr. Dahilig: Again, I would point to you, Councilmember,
to the statistical number of our demand. We firmly believe that based on the
statistics that come in from the United States Census Bureau and the projections
that we had through SMS and derivative calculations that we are going to need nine
thousand (9,000) owner-occupied residential units on the island by the year 2035. In
order to meet that, and as much as I understand that you look at things like Koa`e
and you look at Courtyards at Waipouli and you look at things near the Kaua`i
Lagoons Golf Course, those are in the order of dozens. We need solutions in the order
of thousands.
Councilmember Yukimura: I do not see any solution of thousands in your
plan.
Mr. Dahilig: That is why we are articulating that part of
where we are looking at is throwing a number of lines into the water. This is not a
one-bullet type of scenario. We have to look at putting in investments and
infrastructure. We have to look at where we are putting in investments in our roads,
water, and sewers. We also have to make sure that that aligns with the type of
housing that we want to build, if it is going to be built based off of an exaction. Are
we willing to open up more land for Kukui`ula-style development, in order to build
more volume that is on affordable levels.
Councilmember Yukimura: We are going to have more Kukui`ula style of
developments; the question is how do we require them and how do we work with them
to provide affordable housing. Look at Courtyards at Waipouli—we need nine
thousand (9,000) units right now, we are going to need nine thousand eighty-two
(9,082) units in 2019, because we are not maintaining the affordable inventory. If
our policies allow the affordable housing to drop out of the inventory, then we are
always playing catch-up, so one of the important things is keeping that inventory
ever-growing and that needs to be a policy in here. That is done through things like
permanent affordability and the way we structure Kaua`i. So how we structure our
affordable housing ordinance has to look at this past experience.
Mr. Dahilig: That is where I think we disagree that the
ability to provide the volume of affordable units is realistic if it is premised upon the
development of high-end luxury single-family units. That is how all of these
developments that have been developed are either resort or they are high-end
residential. If we are also listening to what the public is having some issue with is
the proliferation of resort development, the proliferation of high-end residential. It
comes with that balancing, Councilmember, where you have to also look at we have
these affordable projects, but at what cost? There is either going to be a financial cost
if there is a direct subsidy by the Council to provide that through appropriations or it
has to be done in the backs with development, which at the end of the day, from a
planning standpoint, we are not advocating for expanded urban footprints throughout
our documents. We are caught in that conundrum where we can look at affordability,
SPECIAL PLANNING 42 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
but at the end of the day, somebody has to provide that degree of subsidy, so that is
why we are looking at diversification and not just saying that we have to have units
developed premised upon resort development or high-end residential.
Councilmember Yukimura: We already have zoned three thousand seven
hundred (3,700) resort units and our affordable housing ordinance is not clear what
they owe when they are built. At ten percent (10%), we could get three hundred
seventy (370) units if we did it right, perpetually affordable, whereas our past track
record has had housing going out of affordability every ten (10) or twenty (20) years.
So you can get huge leverage in terms of numbers if you structure the requirements
for development that is already zoned or coming up in the future in some way. Look
at Hanamd'ulu, all of that land that somehow got general planned. All of that is going
to happen and we should be really clear about what their obligation is for affordable
housing. That is how we are going to make the numbers.
Mr. Dahilig: In order to make the numbers...
Committee Chair Chock: Can I interject for just a second because it is
going in circles and I know Councilmember Kawakami has a follow-up. I kind of want
to move this discussion that is happening here towards...I understand both things
that are coming out of both sides, but I really want to move us towards some kind of
direction, if you are wanting to focus on affordability and where that would be and
how and I am hearing it, I just want to make sure that even if Planning does not
agree with it, that that is something that is going to be acted on. Can we go to
Councilmember Kawakami? He has been waiting. Then we will come back to you.
Councilmember Kawakami: Thank you, Chair. We talk about affordable
housing and the private sector is driven by the ability for a return on investment. It
is a challenge to get a return on investment on some of the affordable housing that
we are trying to achieve, so what can government do to help lower the cost so that
they can achieve what they are trying to achieve and we can add to our inventory of
affordable housing, then that is a win-win situation? What do we have in our toolbox?
Can we bring in infrastructure? What should we be doing from a policy standpoint?
Mr. Dahilig: I think you hit it on the head right there.
Infrastructure is probably the biggest bang for your buck that you are going to get
when it comes to a direct style type of subsidy for bringing in lower-cost units.
Councilmember Kawakami: Taxpayers need to realize then that if they are
going to harp on the lack of affordable housing, and infrastructure is something that
we can do to create this affordable housing infrastructure, that means as a society,
we are all chipping in a little to bring that to fruition. That is what a society is. That
is what a tribe is. We all got to collectively put in so that we can achieve what we are
trying to achieve. While we are talking about affordable housing, and I posed the
question before: are we looking in as a County as being innovative? I am looking
across the street where we used to operate Big Save and I know what the vision is for
this area; have we begin to look as far as putting up housing above the old Big Save,
which is basically storage right now? You can have government operations and you
SPECIAL PLANNING 43 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
can have workforce housing on top. These are the types of things that are happening
elsewhere and wondering why they cannot happen here? What is standing between
the policy side? What can we do? We are the policy-makers so we can change things
and shake things and not just let us be lip service.
Mr. Dahilig: That idea of trying to use every available
resource possible, because this is a crisis and something as a department we have
been partnering with the Housing Agency on, to even identify County assets where
we can look at higher and better usage in the realm of providing housing. So the
parking lot across the street, for example, is a good discussion point. Should we be
looking at tighter, taller development in some of the County assets that are
underutilized? We have a strip of land that is adjacent to the Department of Water
that is over there that the Housing Agency is looking at trying to squeeze in forty (40)
units. We have another park that is a passive park that we are looking at trying to
squeeze in another fifty (50) to sixty (60) units. These are the types of things that we
are definitely doing and it needs to continue and I think our only caution from an
innovation standpoint is we also need to look at it from a big picture standpoint that
as much as we place a lot of emphasis and effort on these small wins, we ultimately
have to look at the bigger trend line, which is this big scale. So we know that we
cannot, as a County, do it alone. That notion of the direct subsidy to our developers
by providing the investments in targeted areas for infrastructure provides probably
the best breadth in terms of reducing the amount of regulatory where they have to do
and bring and string in infrastructure to their developments, but also direct the
development towards areas that we actually want. I think some of Committee Chair
Chock's discussions concerning sequencing and where we prioritize the six-year CIP
plans and how we layout our projects is going to become very, very critical in
providing that subsidy, because it is not just water; it is sewers, roads, and parks. It
is all of these different elements, not just one thing or the other. We like to
characterize to new developers that come and try to talk to us that development in
Hawai`i is like a game of switches. You have to have all of these switches on at the
same time. Sometimes a switch will turn off and you have to know who controls all
of these switches. Unless you have an understanding of how the switches work and
what switches you can try to turn on for the developer versus them trying to turn it
on themselves, that is the kind of key to try and incentivize these people to come in
and make those investments and return on investment.
Councilmember Kawakami: I hate to pit a war between two (2)
departments, but the question has come up time and time again; are our Building
Code requirements a hindrance for affordable housing? Has it been viewed as
overkill? It depends on who you talk to, but a lot of it is adding to the cost of
construction and in some people's opinion, it is doing so unnecessarily. You do not
have to answer if that is going to get you some weird looks when you walk back across
the street.
Mr. Dahilig: Ultimately, at the end of the day, the best
practice with any building department across the nation is to follow the International
Building Code. But the glove does not fit the size that we may need here. It really
takes a detailed effort to maybe look...the next time an IBC comes out or the next
time even an Electrical Code, a Fire Code, or even a Plumbing Code comes out,
SPECIAL PLANNING 44 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
whether or not some of the things that may be very progressive based off of
communities across the nation that can afford that type of development, whether or
not those things are really size or environmentally appropriate for what we are trying
to look at over here. I think it really takes that fine-tooth comb, rather than just
passing a code and saying, "Okay, let us adopt it, because that is what the rest of the
nation is doing."
Councilmember Kawakami: Okay. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Councilmember Yukimura has more
questions, but I just wanted to ask in terms of the discussion that you folks have had
and the need for regulatory exaction on these unaffordable units, is there room or is
there space for that to occur? If so, where, as it relates to implementation?
Mr. Dahilig: I have to turn to that section on housing
again.
Ms. Williams: Page 114.
Mr. Dahilig: I will say that when you look at the code
changes that were prescribed, I think whatever we can...I hate to use the word"stuff'
because we have had some criticism about "stuffing" too much into the plan, but I
think this is where we need to align some of the regulatory discussion that wants to
be implemented. Ultimately, this document does have a statutory purpose under
State law, which if the Council is to entertain a zoning ordinance, it has to be aligned
with the General Plan. I am trying to balance that language in this plan so that it is
broad enough so that we can cover that statutory requirement under Hawai`i Revised
Statutes (HRS) 46-4, but at the same time, provide some degree of direction. We can
certainly massage some of the language in here if that is the desire of the Council.
Committee Chair Chock: Does the implementation section address the
need to revise the Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance (CZO)?
Mr. Dahilig: I think for instance, the missing middle
discussion is something that would be a consequential need to revise as consistent
with our discussion throughout our General Plan. In fact, that we are trying to look
at infill as a growth management strategy here. Again, we are balancing the need
for more housing, but at the same time, not wanting to sprawl. That is where that
missing middle discussion really does come into play.
Committee Chair Chock: Councilmember Yukimura, please continue.
Councilmember Yukimura: Actually, your question, Chair, brings up a
very important point, which is it is hard to discuss the implementation if you do not
have clear consensus on the policy. That is why I think we have gotten into this
affordable housing discussion is because we are not all on the same page in terms of
how we are going to address this very critical housing need, which we all agree is a
critical crisis, if you will, situation. I agree that it is not a silver bullet and what I am
looking for is a coordinated, integrated policy that addresses the changes we need to
SPECIAL PLANNING 45 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
make in our housing ordinance and how we use our regulatory power there and how
that is supported by Planning, and what it does in its permitting process? Then how
the County Housing Agency does its housing development and then how the private
sector participates? There is a lot of participation needed for the nonprofit sector,
which is through nonprofit housing developers and nonprofit housing agencies,
whether it is the Kaua`i Economic Opportunity (KEO) or Catholic Charities and those
that manage housing projects. To the issue of homelessness and Housing First, that
is where I think a policy...then we look at what our indicators are for achieving our
Housing Policy. I think you are right that we do not need too many...we should not
have to go through a lot of indicators for one policy. So this number 13, which Marie
pointed out, to increase housing opportunities for low to moderate income households,
just needs to be tweaked in terms of having some actual numbers, using the numbers
in the plan, the nine thousand (9,000), if you will, or I do not know if you have
other...and making sure that we have defined low and moderate income, or else
rewording it so that...if we just say, "provide nine thousand (9,000) affordable
housing units in twenty (20) years" then we would need a subset that says how we
deal with the one hundred twenty percent (120%) of median income and lower and
the one hundred twenty percent (120%) to one hundred forty percent (140%). Then I
think there is a small percentage that goes above one hundred forty (140). But we
are really talking about what the market is not meeting, I think. We have to keep a
regular supply of housing going, just from a market, but then we need some targets
for that one hundred twenty percent (120%) and below. I think the one hundred
twenty (120) to one hundred forty (140) might be met with things like...we can put
that in the policy...in Seattle, the government gives interest subsidies. They do not
build a house; they just help with the interest and it is the most effective, efficient
way of using your resources. We are going to need more capital for housing and that
is not addressed in the Housing Policy, like on Maui, where there is a percentage of
the Real Property Tax set aside for affordable housing or a capital gains tax on
highly-priced transactions to provide capital, which is what is needed. The way we
have supplied affordable housing over the last twenty (20) years is with the forty
million dollars ($40,000,000) that we got after the hurricane.
Committee Chair Chock: Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: Just to reel this back, because I think we went
through this when we went through housing. This is a general plan and here we are
talking about policy and trying to get benchmarks to resolve all of our housing issues.
Again, I think the General Plan is the a "general plan" where we identify objectives,
increasing housing by providing affordable housing, but I think the policy is not in
the General Plan; the policy we have...all types of different housing policies that will
obviously need to be tweaked to try and accomplish what the General Plan has set,
but I do not think we should be here trying to figure it out and input it into the
General Plan or else we will probably never get this thing finished. Housing is
obviously a very difficult issue and is not going to be solved by one (1) silver bullet.
We went through this whole conversation when we went through the housing section
the last time. I just want to see how we can get somewhere on this.
Committee Chair Chock: I appreciate your comment. Councilmember
Yukimura.
SPECIAL PLANNING 46 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
Councilmember Yukimura: What I have been suggesting is not a silver
bullet; it is a combination of things and it is no different than what has actually said
on page 117 in the nature...it says, "Streamline permit approvals for infill
development, incentivize infill development, update building codes, reevaluate the
definition of`kitchen."' Those are in the nature of what I have been suggesting.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: I guess I am saying that if it is in here already,
then let us move forward.
Councilmember Yukimura: It is not in there, but it is in the same nature
as this.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: It is on page 117...
Councilmember Yukimura: No, not everything that I talked about is in
there.
Committee Chair Chock: So those suggestions are...
Councilmember Yukimura: So what I am saying is if we are going to
amend or add to and if it is in the same nature as these, it is General Plan subject
matter. What I have been talking about is of the nature that is already mentioned in
the General Plan.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: I guess for me, I am hearing philosophical
discussions. Let us just ask them the question, is this something we can put or amend
into the General Plan or not? If not, the conversation is going to go back and forth
and I do not even know if it is going to come into an amendment or if it is going to be
something that is put in the General Plan or just something that we discuss now and
forget.
Councilmember Yukimura: It is a discussion that we have been having.
You are right—there is philosophy involved in that because there is philosophy
involved. The Planning Director really well-stated the tension between the
sustainability issue and the other elements of the four (4) overarching goals. I am
really glad you are articulated it, Mike, because that underlies how we state the
issues in the General Plan. So you cannot get away from philosophy because it is a
place where you come together.
Committee Chair Chock: I think we all recognize it.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Good.
Committee Chair Chock: I think it is time to move forward.
Councilmember Yukimura: I was answering Councilmember Kaneshiro's
suggestion that we should not be talking philosophy for the General Plan.
SPECIAL PLANNING 47 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
Committee Chair Chock: Let us move forward.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Very good. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Any further questions on implementation?
Councilmember Yukimura: In terms of proceeding, if you want to point
out, as Marie has done, the implementation of the housing goals are
thirteen (13)...fourteen (14)...
Ms. Williams: The objectives related to our housing sector
include objectives...sorry...thirteen (13) through twenty (20) and the corresponding
draft performance measure is shown as well.
Councilmember Yukimura: Like in sixteen (16), you talk about expanding
housing opportunities for workers on farms and you are going to count new farm
worker housing units. How are you defining farms?
Ms. Williams: That actually would be done through the
Agricultural Worker Housing Permit that we have. It is something that you do have
to receive a permit for, so we would just use our departmental records to assess this.
Councilmember Yukimura: Except that that is not the only way that
farm-worker housing is provided, because I think Kaua`i Coffee might have some
housing. As the author of the bill of agricultural worker housing, I know that we
deliberately focused on the small farms, but there is also the larger farms. There may
be farms that already have permits or have the wherewithal to do farm worker
housing. We addressed places like Moloa`a where they had no density. So I do not
know that just using our permit system is going to be revealing all of the farm worker
units.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: Again, if you go back to our housing section,
which we have went through before, they also have...in addition to improving the
existing process to obtain farm worker housing permits and remove barriers for
participation, they also have provided outreach on the farm worker housing law to
increase participation and that is where I think something that you are talking about
might come about. People might say, "We are a large farm. We are not able to fit
into this model. How can we accommodated? How can we generate more housing?"
For me, the General Plan addresses it. They do not have the solution, but it addresses
a step that they need to take, so I am not sure if that will satisfy you or if you want
to add to page 119, "Permitting Actions and Code Changes" another bullet point on
what they can do to stimulate farm worker housing.
Councilmember Yukimura: I was not talking about the process of
producing it, I was talking about the process of counting it. I guess that can be
something that is worked on in the future development of these indicators.
Mr. Dahilig: As stated previously, Councilmember, again
the forty-nine (49) items in the matrix were put together as a means to meet our
SPECIAL PLANNING 48 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
overarching goal, which is communication and to be able to provide that feedback.
Whether or not this reflects the picture as the plan has implemented in the line from
an information standpoint that needs to be told in real time, then I think that is why
we are characterizing this as draft measures because we are not entirely sure that
once this committee is put together that this is the universal information that they
are going to want us to keep on pulling the information from. There may be more
sources out there that we are not aware of. Ultimately, our goal here is monitoring
and our goal is to try and tell the story and whether or not these items in here tell
the story that we can put together to the best of our ability is really the emphasis
behind this particular chapter. We are again trying to communicate to all of our
decision-makers, our partners, and our community what is going on. If there are
more things that need to changed, added, or taken out, or whether or not this matrix
should not even be in here in the first place and given a direction as to how to go
about it and create a process for developing a matrix with the committee down the
line, then that is something that we are open to. I think our approach here is to
communicate the information in real time through a dashboard set up to provide all
of our community members, decision-makers, and stakeholders a glimpse of where
we are at any given time.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. As I look at all of this—and I
appreciate the guidance—to me, for affordable housing, I just really need
thirteen (13) well-developed and nineteen (19) well-developed. I want to know how
we are doing on providing those nine thousand (9,000) units that we say need to be
developed within the next twenty (20) years.
Committee Chair Chock: Where do you want that? In the
implementation?
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. I want a really clear indicator or
indicators. As I explained, you have to break down those nine thousand (9,000) units
by affordability. Then I want to know how we are doing on reducing our
homelessness. Those would be the two (2) indicators in housing. The rest are nice
and interesting, but those two (2) indicators would tell us whether we are really
addressing the main crisis.
Committee Chair Chock: Okay.
Councilmember Yukimura: If we can do that with everything else...what
is our sustainability indicators?
Mr. Dahilig: You start with forty (40), forty-one (41),
forty-two (42), forty-three (43), forty-four (44), forty-five (45)...along with if you look
at twenty-nine (29)...
Councilmember Yukimura: So forty-one (41), "To increase energy
self-sufficiency and maintain a reliable resilient and cost-efficient energy system, this
is just about electrical energy, right?
SPECIAL PLANNING 49 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
Mr. Dahilig: We are using the indicator that the Aloha+
Challenge was suggested to us by the coalition to be integrated into these indicators
as part of the monitoring and implementation. So if you see the asterisks, it is
actually and indicator that we know the Aloha+ Challenge is generating, so we are
going to be just be actually disseminating that information from whatever
methodology they are using.
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, I am not familiar with their indicators,
but from my viewpoint, if we are going to be energy self-sufficient, it is about electrical
generation and fossil fuels.
Mr. Dahilig: We can take a look at the Aloha+ Challenge
and see how they develop that.
Councilmember Yukimura: Hopefully, they have addressed that. You
would think they have.
Ms. Williams: If you look at objective forty-two (42), it also is
an Aloha+ Challenge performance measure that they measure decrease and
emissions across the State.
Councilmember Yukimura: But our objective is not just to reduce it or to
increase it...to increase energy self-sufficiency, right? Maybe we can reduce it
by...how do you measure the gases? What is the unit of measure?
Mr. Dahilig: Metric tons.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay, metric tons...you can do it by one (1)
ton or vehicle miles, you reduce it by...the power of the metric is that it is eighty
percent (80%) or one hundred percent (100%) by a certain time. Can we put in some
kind of metric that way? Otherwise, it is not very meaningful.
Mr. Dahilig: Again, I think it takes it one step beyond what
was suggested to us in looking at the Aloha+ Challenge as a means of alignment. I
do not know how they derived this data and I would feel uncomfortable if we had to
dissect this data further because I do not know what actually goes into it. When I am
looking at the dashboard that the Aloha+ Challenge has right now on the State
government website. It does not really...if you press on detail...Committee Chair, I
do not want to know if you want to pull it up on a web address, but there is dashboard
that you can look at online.
Committee Chair Chock: Do you want to see it?
Councilmember Yukimura: I am trying to simplify for general plan
purposes...forty thousand (40,000) feet view or whatever it is...the Aloha+ Challenge
may have a lot of metrics, but I am just trying to say that in the area of energy
metrics, and I am sure they have quantity and actually time dates. If they do not,
then I do not think they are doing the right job. The main thing is two (2) metrics:
SPECIAL PLANNING 50 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
greenhouse gases and fossil fuel/energy consumption. What about solid waste and
what about...what are the other...
Mr. Dahilig: In number twenty-nine (29), we have tons
recycled.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. "Provide environmentally sound waste
disposal and collection services." That is a throwaway measure.
Committee Chair Chock: Excuse me?
Councilmember Yukimura: It is a throwaway measure if you are
measuring disposal. Actually, what you want to measure is diversion. We already
have the goal of seventy percent (70%) by...so why would we not just put that in as
the objective?
Mr. Dahilig: Again, that is a discussion from a broad
context, Councilmember, that as you are illustrating through this discussion, that we
are open to the idea that not all of these metrics may tell the exact story that you may
want. If there are other metrics that can be easily attained and pulled from other
agencies that actually develop this information, then we can certainly include it in
this matrix. Again, it is more a philosophy of how flexible you want the matrix to be.
Do you want to still treat it as draft measures or do you want to actually lock it in as
something that we stick to or should we toss out the matrix and say, "Let us develop
a set of indicators that the Kakou Committee would like to look at." You are not
hearing disagreement from me. Our primary objective with this is that we are trying
to provide, as efficiently as possible a means of conveying statistics and information
to our partners, decision-makers, and stakeholders on what is exactly the picture
here.
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, I thought...the Planning Department, I
trust, has a stake in achieving the goals of the General Plan, right? So I would think
that for your own knowledge, you would want to know what your progress is and of
course you want to share that with the rest. Who showed me that cycle...I know it is
an (inaudible), but it is this idea of set goals, implement strategies, measure where
you are, adapt and change. That is where the flexibility comes in, not in the indicator.
But in the evaluation of the indicator and the progress you have made or the lack of
progress, and then you start adapting or changing your strategies, and it goes back
like that, that is a regular planning process. So the indicators have to be really clear,
otherwise you do not know whether you are achieving or not.
Mr. Dahilig: What I have stated throughout the language
of this chapter, these indicators are also fallible at (inaudible). Sometimes they are
not continued or the agency does not develop these things any more. We are again
trying to use the phrase "draft measures" as a means of communicating to a reader
of this document what we are attempting to do in gathering information. I
wholeheartedly agree that one of our department's missions is to try to look at and
monitor implementation, but we have said consistently all along that we are not the
agency responsible for controlling what other agencies do. So we can only provide the
SPECIAL PLANNING 51 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
information and communicate to them where they are based the information on that
we are able to find through via statistics and provide that analyses to them. At the
end of the day, it is that end-user that will either hold another agency accountable or
that end-user agency will try to make adjustments.
Councilmember Yukimura: As we have said, it takes a lot of different
agencies and people and citizens to achieve a goal. That is why you want to have a
clear goal for everyone to target, the same goal. When you have measures, for
example, our Solid Waste Division...they have a protocol and process for measuring
diversion and they have a really clear goal that is set by people who know the
business. Then why not make that the goal? It is a wonderful interaction of functional
plan and general plan.
Committee Chair Chock: I do not want to have Mike have to repeat
what he has already said in terms of approach and what is stated here. If the interest
is in rewriting the whole implementation section, then I am open for you to have
discussion about what it is you are proposing to introduce or the details that you are
asking to put into this specific matrix here that is already here. If you are wanting
to get rid of the matrix, then that is fine. I want to hear about that. I want us to
move towards a direction here...
Councilmember Yukimura: I feel like we are. I am trying to understand
how they have written this up and I am sharing as a decision-maker what I feel I
would be looking for as an indicator.
Committee Chair Chock: I think he is agreeing to that. I think he has
acknowledged that there are many ways to look at these indicators.
Councilmember Yukimura: So for twenty-nine (29), which I pointed out,
to provide environmentally sound waste disposal and collection services does not
really articulate what the goal is, which is a diversion. Why not just put in seventy
percent (70%) diversion? If they agree, then let us end, we end here for solid waste
and sustainability.
Committee Chair Chock: That creates some inconsistency in what you
are asking for.
Councilmember Yukimura: Why?
Committee Chair Chock: Amongst the rest of the asterisks marked
indicators.
Councilmember Yukimura: No.
Committee Chair Chock: Hold on...I think what I am hearing is that
there is an approach being taken and you want to change it. They can say yes or no
and that is what I want. Other than that, I think we are going to move forward on
it. Because you can introduce that amendment and give your reasons why. They
SPECIAL PLANNING 52 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
have given reasons why and I have heard them already. I do not need to hear them
again is what I am saying.
Councilmember Yukimura: I am not asking for the reasons to be repeated.
Committee Chair Chock: Okay.
Councilmember Yukimura: I am just saying that tons recycled is a
diversion statistic. It is the objective that is not properly worded and so if they agree
to incorporate the objective of our Solid Waste Integrated Plan, then we have
consistency here.
Committee Chair Chock: Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Councilmember Yukimura: And it is a sustainability. Sustainability is
our overarching goal and this objective will be matched to our objective goal.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura, I guess I am
starting to kind of see more of where you are going for, but when I look at this...these
objectives come directly out of our solid waste section...
Councilmember Yukimura: No, it does not.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: No, it is. This objective is the objective from
the chapter.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, that is a problem, but it is not from our
solid waste plan.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: No, it is from our Solid Waste Disposal and
Recycling section.
Councilmember Yukimura: And it is not...
Committee Chair Chock: Hold on, Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: Councilmember Yukimura, it is specifically
from our Solid Waste Disposal and Recycling section objective to provide
environmentally sound waste disposal and collection services. That is the objective.
We went through this when we went through solid waste. For me, when I think about
solid waste system, you say, "What is a measurable item that you can touch and
measure that would show that we are doing something to provide environmentally
sound waste disposal and collection services," and they have their measurement as
tons recycled. So your recycled material is the amount you are diverting from the
landfill.
Councilmember Yukimura: I am not disputing the tons recycled, I agree
with it.
SPECIAL PLANNING 53 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
Councilmember Kaneshiro: Okay. Then furthermore, if you go back to
their section, they say all of the projects and programs that they would like to happen
in order to increase the amount of tons recycled.
Councilmember Yukimura: I am not arguing with that either.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: So I am not sure...it sounds like we are
talking about apples to apples and same exact thing, so I am not sure what...you just
want a different objective?
Councilmember Yukimura: It is not properly stated. It is stated as a
disposal objective rather than a diversion objective.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: In the projects and programs, it says divert at
least seventy percent (70%) of solid waste.
Councilmember Yukimura: So the objective should be aligned with
whatever the text says. That is just an inconsistency, but if you are inconsistent,
then you do not have clear direction. I am talking about doing things with excellence
and clarity.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: From my point, I think they stated the
objective, they have provided their permitting actions and code changes, their plans
and studies, and their projects and programs to all help accomplish that objective,
and then in the implementation section, they are saying that if you do that, you can
measure it...I am just saying that they are being consistent. They are showing the
same objective throughout the entire document and then they are saying how they
are going to measure it while providing the types of programs and projects that they
need to do to actually accomplish it.
Councilmember Yukimura: The substance or the meaning of the words
here do not reflect the actual goal of solid waste that is going to be a sustainable
system.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: Then I guess the amendment would be what
the new objective that you want in there is?
Committee Chair Chock: There are multiple amendments that you are
speaking to. I think that is why we are getting confused.
Councilmember Yukimura: I think they have got it, I think they know how
to reword it, so I do not know what we are arguing about.
Committee Chair Chock: Clarity about your amendment. You are
asking questions that are...
Councilmember Yukimura: If you want me to...
SPECIAL PLANNING 54 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
Committee Chair Chock: You are providing the lack of systems in the
flexibility and also the lack of clarity on objectives and adding, subtracting, or getting
rid of the tons or adding the County measurement. I just want to get clear about
what it is that you are asking because it is going in a lot of different directions about
what you are unhappy about and I just want to know so that they can answer.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. The County has a goal of a seventy
percent (70%) diversion by 2023 so that would be an objective: to divert seventy
percent (70%) of our solid waste by 2023 and it would be measured by tons recycled.
There are actually other things besides recycling, which is a way of reducing and we
should be precise about it and we should follow the experts, who are the Solid Waste
Division, but I am not going to get into that detail.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you. I understand what you are saying
now. The question is whether they agree on either adding it.
Mr. Dahilig: If it is just a little bit into that specific item,
we can look both at this section and (inaudible) align that amendment, but I would
proffer again that my suspicion is that may not be the only element of wordsmithing
that you may have concern about with the other forty-eight (48) items that are here.
Like I have offered previously, if you would like to take a look at the source
information that we reviewed and identified in this draft measures column to help
facilitate the development of an amendment that wordsmiths these things and
ultimately align it with the other objectives that are scattered throughout chapter 3
of the plan, then we are happy to review that. I would just suggest that if you would
like this information, we can definitely send it over in a transmittal as to what the
source of information is so that way there can be some consistency behind what the
objective is behind Section 4.2 is meant to do as well as what are the objectives that
are throughout the document.
Committee Chair Chock: Is that satisfactory? How would you like to
move forward on it, Councilmember?
Councilmember Yukimura: I would like to see proposed changes from
Planning that articulate the main objectives that will get us to our goals and
indicators that actually measure progress for or against the goals. Thank you.
Committee Chair Chock: Okay. Is that clear?
Mr. Dahilig: A submittal will come over in writing, so we
will respond to it.
Committee Chair Chock: It is going to take some work back and forth
in order to address each one of those. Councilmember, I do not know if everyone else
wants to stay here to go through each one is all.
Councilmember Yukimura: I do not want to go through that either.
Committee Chair Chock: I know you are not asking that, but...
SPECIAL PLANNING 55 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
Councilmember Yukimura: I am asking them to go back and do the work
if they could to the extent that they are willing and that they understand what I am
trying to drive at. If they do not, then I guess I am going to have to go with each one
and try to make amendments and proposals and that is not really very kind to any of
you, but how do we achieve a plan that has very clear objectives that are tied to our
overarching goals that can be measured? I do not know how else we do that.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: The way I read it, you have the objective as
the overarching thing and then you have all of these individual goals as far as seventy
percent (70%) diversion and you have created a new landfill, maybe a Materials
Recovery Facility (MRF), and then you have the indicator. But when you are
speaking, you are saying that the goal is the overarching and then the objectives is
what you want...the objectives needs to be clear. I think it is...
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, I am tying everything to our overall
vision: sustainability, health, equity, and a beautiful, natural place. All of our
objectives should be tied to this. That is why I am asking you about the sustainability
objectives. Look at this one, "To support modernization and user-friendliness of
Kaua`i airports and harbors." I am not sure...
Committee Chair Chock: What number?
Councilmember Yukimura: Thirty (30), just below the recycling thing.
Committee Chair Chock: Okay.
Councilmember Yukimura: Then we are going to use capital expenditures
for Kaua`i airports and harbors? Are you kidding? We can spend money doing the
worst things possible. This does not ensure that we are making a user-friendly Kaua`i
airport. That is totally divorced. We know we can throw money down a rat hole or
we can use it to build the most incredible County building or whatever. There is a
total disconnect there. Why would we spend our time trying to monitor that with
those indicators?
Committee Chair Chock: Further questions? It will be looked at with
you, Councilmember.
Councilmember Yukimura: I do not want to waste to cause any additional
burden on anybody else, so I will just leave it at that. I will not ask any more
implementation questions.
Committee Chair Chock: I do not think it is a burden as much as it is
really trying to get clear about what you are trying to accomplish.
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, is it clear now? I told you it is the overall
arching goals, objectives to achieve that, and indicators to know whether we are
achieving those goals or not.
SPECIAL PLANNING 56 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
Councilmember Kaneshiro: Again, that is why it is different because I
think we are using the wrong words because the way the plan has it, it has the
objective, the goals, and then the measurements and then you are saying that it
should be the goals, objectives, and measurements.
Councilmember Yukimura: Where is the goals under the objectives?
Councilmember Kaneshiro: If you look in each section, so the objective for
airports and harbors, "To support the modernization and user-friendliness of Kaua`i's
airports and harbors" and it says, "Permitting actions and code changes would be
goals that you would try to accomplish..."
Councilmember Yukimura: Those are not goals; those are implementing
actions. Some of those...
Councilmember Kaneshiro: So "at airports to accommodate shuttles and
transport visitors through resort designations"—that is not an action and a goal to
achieve better support for our airports?
Councilmember Yukimura: No, it is a strategy or an action to achieve a
goal. The overarching goals are those four (4). The objectives are supposed to help
us achieve those overarching goals. Correct me if I am wrong anybody. Then those
objectives get implemented through these actions.
Committee Chair Chock: Okay.
Councilmember Yukimura: So you have to have these connections of logic
and everything like that.
Committee Chair Chock: Any further questions on implementation
from anyone? If not, what about overall? I know you had some other questions from
earlier this morning that you wanted to get out.
Councilmember Yukimura: In the provision of water...
Committee Chair Chock: Watersheds?
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, they tie together, but there is discussion
about how big our aquafer system is, far more than what we are drawing from so that
the real bottlenecks are the infrastructure that acts as the aquafers, such as wells,
and transmission lines and storage. I do not have a good handle on how we are
structuring our land use planning to address those obstacles. So the objective is to
ensure water infrastructure is planned to accommodate domestic needs and protect
the public trust. I think that is well stated, so I presume that based on the General
Plan land use maps now the Department of Water will calculate the infrastructure
needed to support that and develop their Water Plan 2020. Is that the basic concept?
Mr. Dahilig: That is the theory. The theory is that as you
characterize it and in terms of crosscutting tie back to this, it also has to be looked in
SPECIAL PLANNING 57 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
concert with what the graphical policy is, so the maps do play a key in where we are
looking at trying to create the demand for that infrastructure or those infrastructure
improvements and that is why we have critical infrastructure maps along with a land
use map. If you look a page 117 again where we are talking about housing, we are
specifically talking about projects under C.1. where we are trying to direct
infrastructure investment and facility improvements into those infill areas. So the
discussion concerning that directed infrastructure growth from a graphical
standpoint really kind of crosscuts both the maps on page 137 and 117 with respect
to that particular question.
Councilmember Yukimura: Do you have any policies that ensure or
prioritize that the affordable housing and basic housing needs will be given access to
the infrastructure before second homes and investment property?
Mr. Dahilig: Again, we talked about this during the
housing discussion earlier and we looked at the specific projects and programs under
Section 1.2 on page 115. There was a discussion concerning whether or not you can
come in and prioritize water availability for affordable housing units and I think that
was a discussion that the Water Manager on their end has a certain approach
towards. If there are suggestions as to how direct the water availability based off of
the land use growth pattern and articulate that in Chapter 1 concerning affordable
housing, that certainly can be included under subsection C.
Councilmember Yukimura: I wonder if we could do it by Facilities Reserve
Charge (FRC) charges or water rates.
Mr. Dahilig: We do already from an FRC charge, the Board
of Water Supply has already adopted a significant discount for those projects that are
sponsored by the County for affordable housing purposes.
Councilmember Yukimura: That is good.
Committee Chair Chock: I have a question in 1.1 that refers to CWRM's
expectation of issuing an updated resource and protection plan that is more cautious.
Is it based on a different measurement or is it a different approach given the
knowledge built up in understanding how the Lihu`e basin is formed?
Councilmember Yukimura: What are you referring to?
Committee Chair Chock: Page 136, 1.1. I think that there has been
some disagreement on how that sustainable yield is being measured. It depends on
the geology I guess.
Mr. Dahilig: Right, we are aware of it...it is funny because
the Hydrologist at CRWM is actually my UH classmate from the Geophysics
Department, so we stay in pretty close contact with respect to what their approach is
and what they are looking at. I think what we are suspecting is that the sustainable
yields are going to be...there is going to be downward forecast with respect to the
current sustainable yields.
SPECIAL PLANNING 58 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
Committee Chair Chock: So it would be lower?
Mr. Dahilig: It would be lower, but how that actually
shows up from a scaling standpoint with respect to the current number is whether it
is a significant drop or an insignificant drop. I have no idea because they still have
not come out with that information.
Committee Chair Chock: When do they expect that?
Mr. Dahilig: My understanding is that they are still
working with the United States Geological Survey on that. I do not know. I can
check with Jeremy Kimura.
Committee Chair Chock: But we do use CRWM's methodology?
Mr. Dahilig: By State law, we ultimately have to adopt
their sustainable yield projection because that, in turn, comes into play with respect
to whether or not our development area has to fall under water management, under
the State Water Code. So that number is critical in dictating whether or not we end
up with this King Solomon type of process that has to be taken.
Committee Chair Chock: It could change significantly.
Mr. Dahilig: Yes.
Committee Chair Chock: Thank you.
Councilmember Yukimura: I have a follow-up to that. Using the existing
estimates, have we assured ourselves that the Lihu`e Community Plan has enough
water? If it changes, which you just talked about, they are relooking at that and
re-measuring, then we would need to least assure ourselves that there is sufficient
sustainable yield in Lihu`e to support the growth that we are planning for.
Mr. Dahilig: Unless there is something of the order of a
seventy percent (70%) to eighty percent (80%) drop in sustainable yield, that would
be a problem given domestic water usage in the Lihu`e basin.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
Mr. Dahilig: I will say, however, that if were to drop
significantly, what does come into play also is the need for free flow to support other
public trust requirements, like cultural practice and agricultural usage, which under
current case law are not the three (3) uses are not prioritized under Supreme Court
case law. So that is where you end up with this discussion that again can be
characterized as a King Solomon type of process that has to go before the Commission
on Water Resource Management to allocate water amongst the uses. We do not
foresee that as being unnecessary, but it would literally require something on the
order of a seventy percent (70%) to eighty percent (80%) drop in the current
SPECIAL PLANNING 59 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
sustainable yield to start kicking us into that realm of water management kind of
hearings.
Councilmember Yukimura: There is also a question as to how much
agriculture we anticipate in the Lihu`e Community Plan district and what their needs
will be present and future, too, right?
Mr. Dahilig: The difficulty with projecting what the water
needs would be or will be is also incumbent on the type of crop that is going to be
grown. Let us say expansion of wetland kalo—it is difficult to say that you are going
to need only a little bit of water because if you expand that, you need an actual free
flow of water to sustain that type of large-scale agriculture. We have not really gone
down the path of saying that there is enough water for expanded agriculture
operations should they once occur again, because I do not suspect we are going to be
seeing big sugar and that type of thing. But ultimately, it is crop-based because the
amount of water that is required per crop can drastically vary from place and type.
Councilmember Yukimura: Because some of the lands around Lihu`e are
really good agricultural lands, too.
Mr. Dahilig: I understand.
Councilmember Yukimura: In Singapore, most of their food is grown
within the city limits, so there is not necessary a separation. I think agriculture could
be compatible with urban, depending on how it is worked.
Mr. Dahilig: We certainly support notions of urban
agrarianism and those types as well.
Councilmember Yukimura: Or it may be right outside the urban growth
boundaries that you have a flourishing agricultural activities or enterprises. Either
way, I think the urban edge boundary is not the whole district, right?
Mr. Dahilig: We would not disagree.
Committee Chair Chock: Any further question? You got your book
back, right?
Councilmember Yukimura: I did. At every action, I have the question,
"Who?"
Councilmember Kawakami: You are like an owl.
Councilmember Yukimura: That is right.
Councilmember Kawakami: A wise owl.
Committee Chair Chock: This is our last of the topics.
SPECIAL PLANNING 60 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you for putting that adjective there.
Mr. Dahilig: To briefly answer that, it is in Appendix G, so
"who" is in Appendix G.
Committee Chair Chock: We have gone over all of the topics, so I just
wanted to make sure that the opportunity is still open to submit questions and get
answers to the department. I know while there is some disconnect for you,
Councilmember Yukimura, on the layout, and where there is some gaps for you. I am
hoping that we can work towards at least get something work done that will help
strengthen it. I would like to know where...we are walking into amendments where
there are some big changes that might be occurring from any of the Members and
that is where I get a little nervous that we can accomplish it.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you for thinking about the timetable
because I do not know...is Planning going to try and relook at these three (3) pages
of objectives and draft performance measures and send something back to me, I guess,
or do I just prepare amendments to it?
Mr. Dahilig: I think what we would prefer is we will send
you what we believe is the corresponding source information. That relates to the
right-hand column so that can be a launching point for whether or not...we are also
from a tracking back standpoint, trying to align is something that will at least capture
and communicate that objective as much as possible given our limited ability to
actually generate specific indicators. If there is room in any of the forty-nine (49) that
you feel could be massaged or changed, that again, has an alignment back to
Chapter 3, which is the sector-by-sector discussion. We are happy to look at
suggested wordsmithing from you, but for us, we have always approached the forty-
nine (49) items as really more of a flexible discussion point as it relates to that right-
hand column. If you are wanting to wordsmith the objectives, then that really relates
to a discussion in how the subsectors in chapter 3 are structured and not necessarily
whether or not they correspond with the type of indicator that we are trying to match
with that objective. So it is a little more than just looking at the matrix and trying
to agree with the language of the matrix, because it really does tie it back to whether
or not that particular objective that is being put in paper actually encapsulates the
body of action items that are there and can be strung consistently with the
nineteen (19) policies and the four (4) vision goals.
Committee Chair Chock: That is where I was getting...
Councilmember Yukimura: I do not agree with this idea...I guess maybe
I do not understand this idea of flexibility, because to me, the main question is does
the indicator measure progress toward your goal. There has to be a certain cause and
effect logic or else to me, it is not meaningful.
Mr. Dahilig: I guess if I could make it more simplistic, if
the concern is the nature of the indicator, then that is something we can address as
part of the chapter 4 discussion. If you have a concern regarding the objective, then
SPECIAL PLANNING 61 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
that is something that should really be encapsulated into the discussion as part of
the overall chapter 3 subsector.
Councilmember Yukimura: I totally agree with that.
Mr. Dahilig: That is a discussion that we are going to have
to have and we welcome it.
Committee Chair Chock: That is a big discussion.
Councilmember Yukimura: It is very big.
Committee Chair Chock: Last day everybody.
Mr. Dahilig: So that is where if the concern is with specific
subsectors and whether the subsector captures your policy idea for that particular
subsector, then I think that is something that we would probably need a little bit
more guidance from you on because I do not think it can be simply captured in a
one-liner that is right now meant to only provide an objective for a subsector. If the
overall concern is with everything in the subsector, then we can certainly get into the
discussion of wordsmithing that to either broaden it, change it, or narrow it, but we
think that most of the action items are reflective of what we have come up with as
either strategies or reflective of the community process.
Councilmember Yukimura: That is what I was trying to do as I began to
understand better how you have organized this. My interest is mainly the key
objectives that are tied to the four (4) overarching goals. That is why I looked at
housing and sustainability; what are your sustainability indicators? I would love to
at what your equity indicators are. I do not know if we are going to have to have all
our amendments for the 13th or if there is going to be another time for it because you
can see this is as somewhat of an iterative process. I am sorry, but we have not spent
the amount of time that you have on these plans and we do not know it as well, so I
am still trying to absorb all of it. I love that one of your overarching goals is equity
and justice because I do not think many general plans include that, but they are
intertwined as you recognized with the physical infrastructure systems that we had
and all of our housing issues and all of that. I can spend the rest of the time we have
until 4:30 p.m. addressing my main cluster areas. I realized that I should not go over
each one because some of them are not as important to me and they still are okay as
indicators, but the ones that are really important to me are, what are the core
indicators that reflect the four (4) overarching goals? It is a beautiful vision and I
would like to move towards it.
Ms. Williams: It seems like a lot of what you are talking
about relates to whether or not this General Plan has kind of a hard target for all of
the forty-nine (49) goals, like the objectives that we have in the plan. In the case
where there is a more specific strategic plan, such as our Integrated Solid Waste
Management Plan, we know that through that plan there is a goal that makes sense
and a strategy to achieve that, even with our Multimodal Transportation Plan as
well; that is kind of our more strategic transportation plan and only through that
SPECIAL PLANNING 62 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
process were we able to come up with goals related to what mode shift would be. In
some of these areas, such as for example, health of coral reefs is kind of a broad
indicator we use. I am not aware of a strategic plan that actually assigns a number
of a target, a goal to that. Just as we were talking about yesterday with cesspool
conversion...I guess the point I am making is that it would be difficult for us in a
comprehensive plan since it is so broad to actually drill down for each and every topic
in the plan instead of target without the benefit of a strategic plan that is really
focused on what that number is so that it is not just a number we throw out. We
actually had that debate amongst ourselves, like do we have targets for everything?
If we have a number, how do we ensure that it means something and that it is not
just throwing out a target out there? I just wanted to explain why our objectives are
worded the way they are. Maybe a solution could be to identify those strategic plans
that actually have that target that has been set in place and calling that out and
having that somewhere and that could possibly help.
Councilmember Yukimura: I appreciate that analysis that you have just
given us. I was going to try and go back to the Salt Lake plan because I just saw it
today after Melissa identified it, but it had sixteen (16) what they called "principles,"
which are kind of funny, because they are not even worded as a complete sentence,
but it must be topic areas. Then a policy discussion and then they have initiatives. I
think it is the initiatives that have indicators attached to it. I would be satisfied if
we had nineteen (19) indicators that were generally a really good indicator for our
nineteen (19) policy areas and maybe some of them might have two (2) or three (3).
All of this I am just conceptualizing now, but we are trying to co-create, I think,
something that is going to work. I believe, like I think you just said, Marie, where we
have clear functional plans, like our Solid Waste Plan and our Multimodal Plan,
incorporating a key objective in there...they have a lot, but maybe in our multimodal,
it is vehicle miles traveled. I do not know for sure. It is harder where we do not have
a comprehensive affordable housing plan because that plan should have already and
those objectives. So in the absence of that, we just pick...I was just trying to identify
two (2) key housing indicators and one would be the number of affordable units that
would fit that nine thousand (9,000) unit projection, and then homelessness. That is
why I was just kind of grasping for key indicators in each policy area.
Committee Chair Chock: The approach there that I heard was that the
caveat is that this would be a sort of draft move towards coordination with the Kakou
Committee that would help to follow this on and actually refine it. That is kind of
where I am stepping back and saying, "Well, there is not much more work to be done
here," and I guess I am kind of leaning back to what Councilmember Kaneshiro said,
"How much," because I do not want to do anything too drastic without fully vetting
it, not to say that we should not look at it more, I just want to get that assurance that
that is really the direction that I have been presented from you folks in terms of...we
need to make sure that all of the variables are there and that there is process in place
for us to move forward on it. Like what Councilmember Yukimura said, I am open to
it. It is not the end of the road is what I want to make sure is clearly articulated.
Councilmember Yukimura: What if perhaps with Jenelle's help, Planning
and I meet and maybe try to see if we can identify core indicators for those four (4) or
nineteen (19)...I do not know what it would be...the four (4) overarching goals or the
SPECIAL PLANNING 63 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
nineteen (19) policy areas, not more than one (1) policy area if anything. We may not
be able to come to any agreement, but we might on some of them. I feel like already
we have a couple of them. Then say with those, if the Council is willing to, then we
put it in the plan and we give it to the long-term implementation with the Kakou
Committee to work on it.
Mr. Dahilig: Again, we are flexible. We are again looking
at a way to correlate items in the plan with data, what items we choose, rather than
being the objectives be the goals and policies. We are open to that discussion being
vetted and characterized by finding appropriate data sources that reflect those types
of things. Again, our overarching objective in Chapter 4 is to figure out a way to
characterize in data what is going on and communicate that freely and openly and
that is all we are trying to get at with that point.
Committee Chair Chock: Anything else, Councilmember?
Councilmember Yukimura: I am exhausted.
Committee Chair Chock: No ways.
Councilmember Yukimura: You folks take over.
Committee Chair Chock: If there are no more questions, I know you did
ask the question about amendments. So we will come back on the 13th...we still have
a Committee Meeting that day, but we would introduce...
Councilmember Yukimura: I am sure there will be amendments to
introduce. I just hope that is not the final day for amendments.
Committee Chair Chock: We have three (3) days set up for that. I do
not foresee us taking those three (3) days, but with the intention, at least currently,
what we have been discussing is that I think that is the last Committee day for the
year that we would look towards the next Committee day to kind of come back and
make sure that everyone has had a chance to review all of the amendments ...that
would be the deadline I guess for amendments in January. So we probably would ask
for the beginning on the year. This is sort of what is in my head. Those amendments
would come in if there are any stragglers at the end of the year, we would hear those,
have public testimony on the semi-final draft, and then vote perhaps on that day on
the amendments and get it out of committee. We are looking at January.
Mr. Dahilig: The only thing I would suggest Committee
Chair is that when we went through that process with South Kaua`i and we worked
with Council Services Staff and what we started to notice was that sometimes the
amendments from different Councilmembers were going to overlap.
Committee Chair Chock: Yes.
Mr. Dahilig: So that is where I know that maybe not
having a hard and fast deadline maybe the preference, but we can provide better
SPECIAL PLANNING 64 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
analysis in whether there are things that are conflicting because what will happen is
that things are proved in time or at what time if things follow, they could contradict
that amendment. So we probably want to work Council Services Staff to bunch these
things up appropriately and package them so that we are not creating more of an
editing nightmare down the line.
Committee Chair Chock: I have had some discussion with Jenelle on
sort of how it is we are organizing. I think that she has a good handle on it right now.
If we, in fact, get bombarded at the last minute...that is why I am really appealing to
everyone to say that if you folks are going to work on something, let us know ahead
of time so that we can start to organize them, then we can see an end in sight and
work towards it. I hope that is amiable for everyone on the Committee. I know that
everyone is not here, but there is still a couple more weeks before we get back to the
table on the first round of amendments. I think that is it. Any other questions or
discussion? I will open it up for discussion on anything else.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: For my discussion, it is just if we do
amendments to get clarity on what words we are using and if we are using them
correctly, because I think when you look at the overall plan, it is very consistent in
the way that it is set-up. If we use the word "goal" or talking about an action item,
then I think the plan gets very confusing because if you look at the plan, there are
four (4) main goals: having a sustainable island, healthy and resilient people, unique
and beautiful place, and equitable place and opportunity for all. Then you have your
nineteen (19) policies and objectives and the way that they have it laid out now, I am
comfortable with it, but if we start saying, "I think diverting seventy percent (70%)
of solid waste should be a goal," then we are kind of...when diverting seventy
percent (70%) of solid waste is actually an action item, then we are going to start
really affecting how this whole plan flows, knowing that diverting seventy
percent (70%) of solid waste is part of an action item, that is part of an objective, that
meets certain polices that reaches our overarching goals. I know we had a lot of
discussion on it before and I think we are all taking about the same thing, but we
may have been using words that start getting convoluted as far as a goal being an
action item or an objective being our goal. How the whole thing flows...for us to start
changing these types of things, it is going to change the entire flow of the document.
Again, you have your goals, your policies, your objectives, and your action items.
Then you have your draft measures, how do you accomplish it or what is the
measurement to show that you are doing all of these things? For me, it flows pretty
well and I know we were going back and forth and I think it was just a matter of
words, using the wrongs words on what we wanted. If we can just talk to Planning
and get that clear if this change actually an action item or is it making the objective
a little clearer or is it really changing the goal? Then we will be able to probably clean
up or settle a lot of differences in the conversation we had today. Councilmember
Yukimura said that she is going to take time to go through it with them. If we can
agree to agree or agree to disagree on when you folks are going through it. For me, if
we come in and the four (4) main goals have turned to six (6) goals and this whole
thing starts changing, I can tell you that I probably will not vote on an amendment
like that, but if it is a matter of saying, "With this action item, I think we should make
the objective a little more clearer and maybe put some language from the action item
into the objective," or things like that, then I would probably be amenable, too. Just
SPECIAL PLANNING 65 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
keeping in mind on how this whole thing...there is so much work that went into this.
To tell you the truth, I do not know how you folks put it together to make it as
organized as it is, because if I had to do it, people would probably not know where to
look or where to go. For me, I really appreciate the way it is set up. Keep that in
mind as we have amendments and discussions going forward.
Committee Chair Chock: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: I appreciate your comments, Councilmember
Kaneshiro, because I hear you saying that we need to be consistent in our use of the
terms so that we can keep things clear and the words we use are important in terms
of clarity. I fully agree with that. I want to say that to achieve a seventy
percent (70%) diversion by certain time is not an action; it is actually a target goal.
You are going to have to figure out what are the actions to achieve that target to
accomplish that goal or objective. I do appreciate the time we have spent on this, the
work that has gone into the plan, and thank you, Chair, for facilitating this process
over pretty complex materials.
Committee Chair Chock: You are welcome. Anyone else? On the
amendments, I will just reference it one more time is that we have sort of these typo
or word changes that are generally accepted are going to be in one pot. I think what
we are looking at is also a pot of amendments that Planning is taking on on behalf of
the Council, so you will have Councilmembers' names along with if Planning is really
the ones who are supporting it or not, so I think that will help some Councilmembers
who are saying, "Hey, I am really not going to support it unless Planning is behind
it," but we will have those and we will be clear about those, as well as some of
the...then everything else from individual Councilmembers to kind of work through
individually. That way, you will be able to make decisions easier and faster on those.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: Again to reiterate, I should have looked at the
book a little closer when I was saying "action item for seventy percent (70%)
diversion," it is actually under projects and programs, which it is all laid out. You
have permitting actions and code changes, plans and studies, projects and programs.
There are a few other...I would say there are kind of action items...I do not want to
use the word "goals" because we are going to get confused, because we have our
four (4) main goals. A lot of times, we can probably be arguing about something and
talking about the same thing. I may be saying it is a goal, someone may be saying it
is an objective, and really it is just an action item that should be in here and we are
arguing about the same thing and not having the correct term for it.
Committee Chair Chock: Target goals/action indicators.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Some of the actions are actually policies.
Committee Chair Chock: Go to work.
SPECIAL PLANNING 66 NOVEMBER 30, 2017
COMMITTEE MEETING
Councilmember Kaneshiro moved to defer Bill No. 2666 to the
December 13, 2017 Special Planning Committee Meeting, seconded by
Councilmember Yukimura, and carried by a vote of 4:0:3
(Councilmembers Brun, Kagawa, and Rapozo were excused).
There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 2:20 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,1
Codie K. Tabalba
Council Services Assistant I
APPROVED at the Committee Meeting held on January 3, 2017:
MASON K. CHOCK
Chair, PL Committee