HomeMy WebLinkAbout07/08/2020 Housing & IGR Committee minutes MINUTES
HOUSING & INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS COMMITTEE
July 8, 2020
A meeting of the Housing & Intergovernmental Relations Committee of the
Council of the County of Kaua`i, State of Hawai`i, was called to order by
KipuKai Kuali`i, Chair, at the Council Chambers, 4396 Rice Street, Suite 201, Lihu`e,
Kaua`i, on Wednesday, July 8, 2020 at 8 31 a.m., after which the following Members
answered the call of the roll-
Honorable Mason K Chock
Honorable Felicia Cowden
Honorable Luke A. Evslin (via remote technology)
Honorable Ross Kagawa
Honorable KipuKai Kuah`i
Honorable Arryl Kaneshiro, Ex-Officio Member
Excused. Honorable Arthur Brun*, Ex-Officio Member
The Committee proceeded on its agenda item as follows.
Bill No. 2774, Draft 1 A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING CHAPTER
7A, KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED,
RELATING TO THE HOUSING POLICY FOR THE
COUNTY OF KAUAI (This item was amended to
Bill No. 2774, Draft 2, and Deferred.)
Councilmember Chock moved for approval of Bill No 2774, Draft 1, seconded
by Councilmember Kagawa
Committee Chair Kuali`ir We will take public testimony at this time
First, we will hear from Stephen Frank.
STEPHEN FRANK (via remote technology). Good morning, my name is
Stephen Frank I am opposed to Bill No 2774, Draft 1, to waive the thirty
percent (30%) affordability section of development. I have some reasons and I think
that we need to explore it a little bit more I feel that the thirty percent (30%) rule is
low I believe it is currently thirty percent (30%) of the project number of units that
you have to build. I believe that the number should actually be adjusted and maybe
looked at to be thirty percent (30%) of the projects total cost instead of it being thirty
(30) units of a one hundred (100) unit complex. If they are building a one hundred
million dollar ($100,000,000) project, you might have thirty million (30,000,000) that
might provide one hundred fifty (150) homes I believe that we need to look at this.
By passing this Bill, who is going to benefit the most? Is it going to be the County
residents or is it going to be the developers? I will give you a little background I
come from the car business In the car business, the most profitable car for me to sell
is trucks, a Ford F-150 In order for me to sell Ford F-150's...I would have all Ford
F-150's if I could, but I have to sell Fiestas In order to get one (1) Ford F-150 which
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 2 JULY 8, 2020
makes money, I may have to get three (3) or four (4) Fiestas which make no money
In the car business, I have to be creative. Maybe I would lose money on the Fiestas
or I make very very little bit of money on the Fiesta so I can sell that one (1) Ford
F-150 and make a profit. Right now, by doing this for this Bill, you are allowing
developers to just make the profit, and just concentrate only on where they are going
to make money, and they are going to be marketing to wealthy individuals probably
not from the State of Hawai`i. We are going to be bringing in non-residents and we
are going to be displacing local people It is my understanding that your job is to
protect the local people and to make laws that affect the local people Another point
is when the developer is going to build these units, or they are going to take a property
such as an agricultural lot, and they are going to ask you to rezone it Once they
rezone it, they are already increasing the value of that property By increasing that
value of the property, the developer stands to make better and more wealth, and
create more units The give and take to that is the affordable units By releasing
that component and saying, "Hey, we do not require you to give us affordable units,"
the developers are going to rezone properties...you are going to probably let them do
that to make more units, and we are going to create a big gap between the haves and
the have not. We cannot have that happen I am a local person and I am trying to
look for ways to help local people get into a home. I have children that are all college
graduates—one (1) with a Doctor of Philosophy (Ph D ) and one (1) with a Master's
Degree They do not live in Hawaii because it is too expensive to live at home. I am
trying to get them home and find them affordable homes that they can live in
Committee Chair Kuali`i Excuse me, Mr. Frank.
Mr. Frank. My children cannot afford one million
dollar ($1,000,000) homes, they cannot afford five hundred thousand dollar
($500,000) homes, and they cannot afford eight hundred thousand dollar ($800,000)
homes We have so many homes on Kaua`i alone that have multigenerational
families You have grandma, children, grandchildren, and cousins who are all living
at home I know a bunch of homes that have twenty (20) to thirty (30) people in the
homes, because they cannot find affordable housing By allowing this Bill, we are
going to give carte blanche to developers who are only going to build homes that are
going to make them money and it is only going to be for the wealthy Why would we
want to do that? It is also not going to make developers become creative to figure out
ways to make it affordable Right now they have to figure out ways In my personal
opinion, they are just being lazy and they are saying that there is not enough money
in it for us, so we are not going to do it They only want to make money for themselves
They want to make money on every aspect of the project We should not let developers
come in, take out precious agricultural land, and convert it into residential land We
cannot do that when we need the housing Also, another point, I went to a meeting
that was held by Council Chair Kaneshiro that talked about having limited resources.
Why are we allowing only this "limited resources" to developers.. these are County
resources and not only for rich developers, to build homes only for the rich and not
use those limited resources on affordable and the local community My view is that
we should not even be marketing out of the State of Hawai`i We should be
concentrating on keeping our local people here. We build all of these rich and
expensive homes, who is going to actually take care of these homes; who is actually
going to be the service people? If we have no housing for those people who are our
base people and our base population, the ones who are going to live here twenty-four
seven (24/7), they are all leaving because they cannot afford to live here. If not, they
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 3 JULY 8, 2020
are doing drugs or other things, because they do not have hope. Where are we going
to live, we do not have a place to go, because everything is too expensive
Committee Chair Kuali`i. Your time is about to run out, so you need to
wrap up
Mr. Frank. Excuse me?
Committee Chair Kuali`i Please wrap up, your time is about to run out
Mr Frank. I think that we need to reevaluate this Bill
and look at it from a perspective of who actually benefits It is your job to ensure that
it benefits the people of Kaua`i and I do not see a benefit to the people of Kaua`i I see
only a benefit to developers
Committee Chair Kuali`i Mahalo
Mr. Frank. I do not think that we should allow that
Committee Chair Kuali`i• Okay, Mahalo
Mr Frank. That is all Thank you very much for your
time I appreciate it.
Committee Chair Kuali`i. Thank you Before we go forward with the
next speaker, I would like to explain that you get three (3) minutes and you get an
additional three (3) minutes. We will give you a total of six (6) minutes Mr Frank
just had his six (6) minutes total We will start the clock and you will get your full
six (6) minutes. The next testifier is Bridget Hammerquist, and you have a total of
six (6) minutes I do not know if you are able to see the yellow light? The second time
the yellow light comes on means that your six (6) minutes are about to expire I will
also let you know Thank you, we will now hear from Bridget Hammerquist.
BRIDGET HAMMERQUIST (vta remote technology) Good morning.
Thank you, Councilmembers This is Bridget Hammerquist. I apologize I will not be
able to see the yellow light, but I thank you for the warning I do not think that I will
need all of the six (6) minutes I filed testimony with the Council in which you
probably already have The meat of the testimony was that this exemption is not
necessary for the simple reason that our Housing Director and others have claimed
that builders are going to be limited in the price point they can sell the units in the
concentrated town core It is the belief that those units will not sell outside of the
affordable range If that is in fact a genuine belief then there is no need for an
exemption from the Housing code. My other concern is that when you create an
exemption, one class of developer someone that is developing large number of units
in town cores or an R-10 property or greater, they get a benefit that other builders on
island do not get. It is kind of like bringing in the big-box stores You put the mom
and pop builders out of operation Someone that is building multi-family homes, but
is not in a town core R-10 or greater property, they are going to be required to adhere
to the Housing code requirement for a certain percentage to be maintained affordable
That is good because we need an affordable inventory on Kaua`i, that we do not have
now. The people who then get the exemption are going to be relieved of the Housing
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 4 JULY 8, 2020
code. It is sort of a selective enforcement of our Housing code. Generally, the law
does not support bills which selectively enforce against some and not others. The
third point I would like to make in my remarks this morning is that I truly believe
that Council Chair Kaneshiro may be well intended in offering this Bill for homes on
Kaua`i that he believes we need, I think that it is improper for him to be in this
position where there is a potential that Grove Farm development property may
benefit from this Bill The Bill by its design is projected to last for ten (10) years
interval at a minimum It is going to be in place for a ten (10) year from the time it
passes by (inaudible). It does not say that it will expire at the end of ten (10) years
It just says that the Council will then revisit the Bill in ten (10) years This is being
put in place and at the end of ten (10) years, it may well continue for another ten (10)
years depending upon the determination made by the then sitting Council I feel that
there is too great a conflict between Grove Farm, Mahaulepu Farm who is owned by
Grove Farm, and their development land, and their proposed development of multi-
family mixed use village like the one that they proposed in Po`ipu for one thousand
one hundred (1,100) units on Grove Farm property. Grove Farm owns Mahaulepu
Farm property. I do not feel that it is proper or ethical for our County Council Chair
to be advancing this Bill Thank you. That is my testimony on Bill No. 2774, Draft
1 I am asking the Council to please do not pass the Bill as currently written
Committee Chair Kuali`i Thank you. Next, we will hear from JoAnn
Yukimura Ms Yukimura, you have six (6) minutes
JOANN A YUKIMURA (via remote technology). Thank you Committee
Chair Kuali`i, Council Chair Kaneshiro, and Members of the Housing &
Intergovernmental Relations Committee I appreciate the opportunity to testify on
Bill No 2774, Draft 1, which seeks to amend and update the County's Housing law
This law greatly affects the availability and quality of affordable housing on Kaua`i,
one of the most important issues facing our island today. The law should be amended
with greatest care and foresight I would support the Bill with the following
amendments I will list them all first and then go into detail. Remove the exemption
which allows projects in the town cores of Lihu`e, Koloa, Kalaheo, and multi-family
projects elsewhere that have a density of R-10 or greater By removing this
exemption, we would be requiring all of the housing to provide thirty percent (30%)
of the units to be affordable. The second recommendation I would have would be to
amend the duration of restrictions from fifty (50) years to permanent affordability
The third recommendation is to carefully define and make the land and
infrastructure requirement the default for the standard way for a development to
continue affordable housing The fourth would be in-lieu requirement reflect the
actual cost of constructing a housing unit. Lastly, I would urge you to take a look at
the affordable housing percentage requirement for both residential and resort
projects I would like to focus on the first recommendation to remove the exemption
This exemption would eliminate a large percentage of housing likely to be built in the
next ten (10) years from any affordable housing requirement I do not know what
that percentage is but hopefully your Committee has calculated that percentage.
The public deserves to know what percentage of this future housing development
would not be required to provide affordable units for the next ten (10) years.
When I testified on Bill No 2774 last February, I submitted a list of affordable
housing built between 1975 and 2019, excluding Hawaiian Homeland projects It
showed that forty-three percent (43%) of all affordable housing built over the last
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 5 JULY 8, 2020
forty (40) years, were built because they were required as a condition of zoning. The
County's Housing law, which this Bill seeks to amend, is one of the County's principal
tools for ensuring that affordable housing is built on Kaua`i. If this bill is weakened,
and fewer affordable homes are builts, Kaua`i's housing problem will worsen, Kaua`i's
families will suffer even more, and homelessness will increase
I have heard it said that it is not necessary to require high density multifamily
housing to be affordable because by being smaller and more in number, they are likely
to be lower priced I have not seen any evidence that this will happen, especially on a
long term basis Witness Honolulu where there are many multifamily units, very few
of which are affordable
Prices may be lower for a few years if many units are built at once, but only at
the upper end of affordability—for the one hundred percent (100%) to the one
hundred twenty percent (120%) of AMI, and only for a few years. What about the
families in the ranges below one hundred percent (100%) of AMI? Will they be
excluded from the town cores where we want a mix of families to be? And what will
happen in a few years after those units are built when real estate prices rise as they
are likely to do on Kaua`i, especially in a COVID-infested world where people are
fleeing the cities and looking for a place like Kaua`i
If the prices are likely to be lower anyway for the developers of multifamily
housing in the town cores and elsewhere than for developers elsewhere, then it will
be easier for developers of multifamily units to meet the affordable housing
requirement, so why exempt them? Not exempting them will ensure long-term
affordability of town core and multi-family units, which is what we want.
As far as amending the duration of restrictions from fifty (50) years to
permanent affordability Under the existing law, the affordability housing required
under said law must remain affordable for twenty (20) years. As we have seen from
the examples of Kilauea Estates and Courtyards at Waipouli, ten- or twenty-year
affordability is far too short, resulting in market prices beyond reach or evictions
Committee Chair Kuali`i Excuse me. Just to let you know that you are
getting near the end, so if you could wrap up, please.
Ms Yukimura Thank you very much. Bill No. 2774, Draft 1
proposes to extend to fifty (50) years, which is better than the status quo, but it is
still inadequate and short-sighted There is an ancient Iroquois philosophy, called
the "Seventh Generation.. " Am I at the end9
Committee Chair Kuah`i• That is your time Councilmember Cowden
had a clarifying question
Ms. Yukimura Yes
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 6 JULY 8, 2020
Councilmember Cowden Thank you for your testimony You had some
drop out—I think you were too close to your computer You spoke about in-fill
requirements, you mentioned four (4) things you would change and I could not hear
what change you would make on the in-fill requirement. You said you would change
something on in-fill requirement, but there was too much drop out to hear what your
in-fill requirement change would be It was early in your talk
Ms. Yukimura. I think I was talking about the "in lieu "
Councilmember Cowden Oh, in lieu Okay, can you say that, because I
did not hear it
Ms Yukimura Thank you My recommendation is to make
the in lieu requirement that is allowing developers to give money instead of the
housing, to make that requirement reflect the actual cost of constructing a housing
unit.
Councilmember Cowden• Okay, thank you
Ms Yukimura• I think Koa`e Makana's cost is about five
hundred thousand dollars ($500,000) per unit and if that is the current cost then
someone that owes ten (10) units should pay ten (10) times the per unit cost as an in
lieu fee If you allow them to fudge the in lieu requirement, you will not get the
amount that the County would need to build the housing, if the developer does not
built it
Councilmember Cowden So, you would say ten (10) times...
Ms Yukimura• Is that understandable?
Councilmember Cowden• Yes In lieu cost requirement would be ten
(10) times the cost of a single unit
Ms Yukimura• No
Councilmember Cowden Okay. I understand what you are...
Ms Yukimura. If the developer...thanks for asking for the
clarification
Councilmember Cowden I understand when we look at the price of the
unit. The in lieu requirement would be based on the cost of the average unit that they
built, therefore, if they are building two million dollar ($2,000,000) houses, the in lieu
requirement would go against the cost of a two million dollar ($2,000,000) house
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 7 JULY 8, 2020
Ms Yukimura• That is not what I am saying and thank you
for allowing me to clarify We need to find out what the average cost of building a
housing unit is and that is easily acceptable. I think Milo Spindt, at a Lihu`e Business
Association meeting, said it is about five hundred fifty thousand dollars ($550,000).
Councilmember Cowden. Okay
Ms Yukimura• And so whatever the developer is required to
build under this law of thirty percent (30%), so he is building one hundred (100) units,
thirty (30) would be required to be affordable. Thirty (30) times the per unit average
cost is what the in lieu fee should be.
Councilmember Cowden Okay, I understand now Thank you I just
could not hear it I appreciate that
Committee Chair Kuali`i Thank you very much. That is all the
in-person testifiers we had. We have one (1) more testifier on a recorded message
and we will hear that when we come back to our regular meeting and hear business
again At this time, hearing no objections, our committee will be in recess
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 8 54 a.m.
The meeting reconvened at 11 49 a m , and proceeded as follows.
Committee Chair Kuah`i. I would like to call back to order the
Housing & Intergovernmental Relations Committee Meeting, and all Members are
present Members, we have continued to work hard on meeting with stakeholders
regarding this item Today, we will have additional discussions and possibly
entertain amendments. I am looking towards another possible deferral for continued
discussion and dialogue. My ultimate goal is to continue working on this Bill and
hopefully pass something by the end of September. Again, this is just a targeted goal
Council Chair Kaneshiro. Committee Chair Kuali`i
Committee Chair Kuali`i. Yes.
Council Chair Kaneshiro. I wanted to let you know there is one (1)
recorded testimony Would you like to receive this recording and continue with the
meeting thereafter9
Committee Chair Kuali`i Oh, yes. We do have one (1) recorded
testimony
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 8 JULY 8, 2020
ALICE PARKER (vta voicemail message) Aloha, County Councilmembers
Alice Parker, for the record. Please do not enact this proposal by Committee Chair
Kuali`i and Council Chair Kaneshiro. This would decrease our available chances for
affordable housing and we need affordable housing Followed by the suggestions from
Bridget Hammerquist, she said it so eloquently in her letter to the editor, because we
need affordable housing. We do not need more non-affordable housing. Please, please
Councilmembers think of the people who need you. Okay, mahalo, Alice Parker
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows.
Committee Chair Kuali`i. Thank you Alice. I do want to mention that
we received numerous testimony. The count ended at some point at eighty-six (86).
While I was on break, testimony was coming in still. We have eighty-six (86)
testimony tallied There is an overwhelming amount of people opposing the Bill
Two-thirds opposing, one-third"other" so they may oppose or not, they did not clarify,
and a couple in support. I wanted to put some basic information out there to make
sure people know where we have been and where we are at I do know that a lot of
this testimony received came as a result of an article in the newspaper on Sunday
There were some inaccuracies in that article and was also spread around in social
media If you want accurate information, you can actually look in today's newspaper
where there is an op-ed from our Housing Director, who gave some facts about the
Bill For viewing purposes, there is social media statements from Councilmember
Evslin and myself I will also be doing an op-ed for the newspaper on Sunday. Despite
the misinformation that was shared and the uproar that we are hearing from the
public, I mean we all agree we all know we need affordable housing and that is what
we are working towards. Perhaps the silver lining in this is that we see that several
people are engaged. We have been working on this for quite a while, as I will explain
and will go over the basic background. I want to give you some basic background, so
you know where the Bill came from and the process for which we are working on it so
far. The most important thing I want to say about that is this is a work in progress,
it has been a work in progress The Bill is actually a packet of proposed amendments
Like we described at first reading way back in January, there are over thirty (30)
proposed amendments to update the Housing Policy, Ordinance No 860 Of those
thirty (30), two-thirds of them are non-substantive and they have to do with
housekeeping, grammatical, clarifying definitions, relocating language, and
removing duplication language Those are all important We already agreed on a lot
of those when we went through them I would say that the way we are working on
this is a little different because it is a whole package of proposed amendments, which
means any Councilmember can pick out a piece and amend it to make it different if
what is in there is not working In fact, that is what we have been doing along the
way with input from stakeholders, from testimony, from meetings that we have been
having, as well as hearing back from the Housing Director The other third of those
are relatively substantive and it is one (1) in particular that everyone is objecting to,
but is still being worked on There are amendments forthcoming. This Bill came
from me as the Housing & Intergovernmental Relations Committee Chair and I knew
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 9 JULY 8, 2020
this would be the most important bill that we would work on in this term I asked
our Chair to co-sponsor the Bill with me, knowing how important it was Of course,
we work directly with the Housing Director—I am no expert in the housing policy, so
we rely on his expertise to actually draft this Bill The drafting of this Bill started
back in the fall of last year based on the Nexus Workforce Housing Study that we
received as a Council in June of last year. In that study on pages 11-14, there are
several recommendations between ten (10) to twenty (20) recommendations. We saw
those as the low-hanging fruit and those are where our proposals the basis and data
for our proposals came from We had first reading back in January, we had public
hearing, we had several committee meetings, I believe this has been on the Council
agenda seven (7) times in total and they will be on a few more, because my intent is
for us to work on it and then defer it again. The primary reason for deferring and
working on it slowly is to give stakeholders and others the chance to engage Right
now, we are having a lot of engagement that is a good thing Primarily, I wanted to
say that this is a work in progress, we appreciate everyone's mana o, their suggestions
and ideas, and we are definitely taking them into account Personally I can say I
have not had a chance to send responses to all of the testimony received. However, I
will definitely be doing that within the next day or two I would also ask you to read
the information that is being provided by our Housing Director in the op-ed and by
myself in Sunday's op-ed At this time, Members, do you have any comments? We
will call on the Housing Director and ask him to be available to answer any questions.
Councilmember Kagawa
Councilmember Kagawa I want to thank Committee Chair Kuali`i and
I would like to add on to some of the history. Former Councilmember
JoAnn A Yukimura, while on Council, put in a lot of time in the Housing Task Force
and held a lot of meetings. At that time, she also included Councilmember Chock and
it was very hard to please everyone, which is why she did not come up with something
Councilmember Brun came in guns blazing—I thought he was going to produce
something, but it was the same situation He held some meetings, not as much as
JoAnn, but he tried to get the input from the private sector, developers, and what
have you Affordable housing is not something easy to solve, especially in Hawai`i
We have the highest market prices in the world. I want to thank Committee Chair
Kuali`i and Council Chair Kaneshiro. I brought some of the concerns from the
developers who said they were failed to be contacted by Adam. I also apologized to
Adam There was a second round of effort made by Committee Chair Kuali`i and
Housing Director Rovers].to contact all of these folks—I gave that to Committee Chair
Kuali`i They asked for their input and they asked for further input moving forward
This is not the end product. What I would like to lay out and to be accurate is that
the thirty percent (30%) has not been successful. It has been years, and there have
been no major projects While it looks good on paper, it has not produced results For
this reason, Committee Chair Kuali`i is attempting to try and move something so that
we get results and houses on inventory With inventory, supply, and demand...the
more supply you have and with the demand that there is, the better chance of having
market rates available for local residents. I praise the efforts of Housing Director
Rovers', Committee Chair Kuali`i, and Council Chair Kaneshiro I am really upset
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 10 JULY 8, 2020
with some of the negative comments that are being made without justifiable facts
We do not need to get emotional Committee Chair Kuali`i and Council Chair
Kaneshiro—they are not bad men They are great We are lucky to have them here
and these efforts are being made to try and help the island of Kaua`i I praise them
I hope that we are able to keep everything positive. Right now, I believe we have a
Council that has the focus to come up with something good in September Let us
continue with positive input We do not need to be name calling and criticizing people
who are trying to do good work for the people of Kaua`i Thank you
Council Chair Kaneshiro I have a quick announcement We are at
12 00 p m I will make the decision to end on this item and take a lunchbreak If
there is Administration waiting for your items (the climate change, polystyrene, and
collective bargaining), you are able to come back after lunch at 1 30 p m I would
rather us take a lunchbreak after this item instead of starting the climate change and
have to break it up in the middle. We will finish on this item. I know that we have
Administration waiting on our Zoom It is just an announcement to the
Administration that they can come back at 1.30 p m
Committee Chair Kuali`i Councilmember Chock
Councilmember Chock I think it would be a good idea to have the
Housing Director shed light on some of the comments and misguided perspectives
that are being emerging in the community around this Bill, so that we can shed some
light on the facts
Committee Chair Kuali`i. Yes, we are going to do that Do you have
anything?
Councilmember Cowden. I am able to wait until after the Housing
Director...would you like me to speak now?
Committee Chair Kuali`i. Whatever you would like
Councilmember Cowden. I will speak just a little bit, because perhaps
Housing Director Rovers' can add to it. I want to acknowledge that when this Bill
was put together, it was late last fall, early last winter well-ahead of the whole
COVID-19 emergency. We basically pushed it out to the middle of the summer
thinking that the emergency would have been lifted and to be bringing people in here
Our market conditions have really changed, so I would like this thought to be in
Housing Director Roversi's mind...our market is really heated up in this COVID-19
time I have called different realtors in my zip code, the Kilauea area They tend to
work with the higher-end community and there is a lot of purchasing interest from
people who have never been on the island They said that sixty percent (60%) of the
people who are doing the virtual walk through have never even been here They are
going after the vacation rental markets, two million dollars ($2,000,000) and under,
and dominantly one million dollars ($1,000,000) and under They are looking to try
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 11 JULY 8, 2020
and find that fifty cents on the dollar. There are realtors in the big cities that are
calling key realtors here and they have lists. As seen in the past, when these
properties go into failure or when they go on to the market...when property moves
fifteen (15) minutes within the listing on the Multiple Listing Service (MLS), we risk
some replacement of property ownership. It is almost certain When we look at
supply and demand, we have almost an inexhaustible demand for at least existing
buildings right now When we look at people trying to flee either the virus or violence
in their communities.. without my placing any kind of character comment on what
had been creatively put in there to incentivize infill development, how we do more
urban renewal, how we build in the areas that already have these infrastructure, we
might be deepening the housing crisis by creating this exemption. In our whole
process, I will be looking at that exemption. I would like to say that I believe we
should remove all of it When we look at the fifty-year and permanent dedication,
which is another area I would like to really speak about because of the youth
complaint received on that We have heard that one hundred forty percent (140%)
might be very important From experienced people in our development community,
there has been a little bit resistance to the strength of what this Nexus Report said
It is a pretty skilled document I read it; I do not know that I get it. I would like to
acknowledge that Something else that could be put in there is to add thirty
percent (30%) rather than include thirty percent (30%). That was something that
was shared in other municipalities that said if you build one hundred (100) units,
maybe you will get thirty (30) more density, but that has to be at the really affordable
price rather than doing inclusive There is a range of ways that things could be looked
at When appropriate, I will definitely be introducing some amendments Whether
it is today or another day, I really want to learn and listen to everyone that has
something to share I think it will calm a lot of the people listening and to let them
know that this is a work in progress and it has been intentionally moved out with the
hope that we could have greater involvement of the community Thank you
Committee Chair Kuali`i Thank you. At this time, I will suspend the
rules for any questions of our Housing Director and for our Housing Director to also
feel free to make any statements you would like to make at this time
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
ADAM P ROVERSI, Housing Director. Aloha, Committee Chair Kuali`i,
this is Adam Rovers', Housing Director. I will start off with a few comments and then
answer any questions anyone has
Committee Chair Kuali`i Okay
Mr Rovers'. You were inundated with a flurry of
comments arising from the recent Garden Island article and a lot of social media posts
flying around regarding this housing policy I believe that in their opinion they are
largely based on some misrepresentation of what this policy is actually doing, which
I tried to address that in the editorial section of today's paper, butif I am able to touch
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 12 JULY 8, 2020
briefly on that I believe a lot of the flurry of opposition was driven by a misperception
that we relatively narrowed and targeted the exemptions that were proposed in the
Housing amendments for very specific high density multi-family units in very specific
areas This has been characterized as exempting any development on the entire
island of ten (10) units or more from any workforce housing assessment. Therefore,
we have seen many comments that the Council—the sky is falling and the Council is
doing away with all affordable housing requirements for the next decade That is
patently not true In my opinion, the exemptions that are proposed are very narrowly
targeted It is designed to promote high density multi-family apartment style
dwellings in our town core areas, which is exactly what the General Plan has asked
us to try to do as far as development on Kaua`i. It is also the recommendation that
comes directly from the Nexus Report, which was put together by a group of experts
in inclusionary zoning from around the Country. One of the concerns that I hear from
the recent outcry is that there is no absolute guarantee that multi-family structures
built within the Lihu`e Town Core area will serve local residents at workforce housing
prices The threat is that it will all be expensive units for mainland residents that
are somehow going to displace local residents. The idea of more housing units, more
multi-family housing units is somehow going to displace residents just seems to be
logically incomprehensible. More apartment style units in Lihu`e means more
housing units for local residents. I have said many times in previous Council
meetings that it is my educated understanding that analyzing the current market in
the Nexus Report.. by their nature, those types of projects tend to be at workforce or
affordable housing prices That is not really just a guess This is not an exhaustive
survey I reached out to local rental management companies to find out what the
rental prices are for existing multi-family projects in Lihu`e, such as the Lihu`e Town
House on Rice Street, Sun Village, Banyon Harbor, and Hale Malu in Puhi All of
those existing projects are renting out currently between eighty percent (80%) and
one hundred percent (100%) Area Median Income (AMI) and no one is forcing them
to do that That is simply the nature of those types of projects, the size of the units,
and the type of housing product that they are. That is the reasoning within the Nexus
Report that encouraged us to create an exemption for these types of apartment
projects. As facts on the ground here in Lihu`e today demonstrate, those projects are
being rented to people who are making what we are defining as workforce housing
prices on Kaua`i, so it is not just a guess or pipedream I believe those will provide
workforce housing, which is our goal and obligation, but I think the facts are on the
ground demonstrate that to be the case. As Councilmember Cowden also mentioned
the concern about housing being for...trying to establish a requirement that housing
be for local residents as opposed to people coming from the mainland We attempt to
incentivize that in many ways and when housing is required under the Housing
Policy or when we build it ourselves, which to be honest is where most of our
affordable housing comes from, we require local residency To be on the homebuyer
list, you have to be a resident It is true that someone can land on Kaua`i and within
a matter of days they can become a local resident If so, we have to put them on the
homebuyer list. They would have to take a homebuyer education class it takes a
little time before you can get on the list, et cetera, but for better or worse that is what
we get for being under the United States Constitution Matthew is able to tell me if
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 13 JULY 8, 2020
I am wrong, but from my understanding, we are not able to establish a duration of
residency requirement for housing. Whether we want to or they think it is a good
idea, we would lose if we ever went to court That is a simple fact. I do not know if I
have many more specific things that I wanted to touch on, but I would be more than
happy to answer any questions about any of the possible amendments I would like
to reiterate that I have been reading all of the same comments that you folks have—
from the Kaua`i Board of Realtors and from various, both development interest as
well as community groups, who we might characterize as being on the opposite side
of the spectrum I will continue to think about all of their comments and how they
both reflect on amendments that are proposed and approved, at least tentatively
approved today, as well as possible other additions that could be made improvements
All along the way when Committee Chair Kuali`i and I first began discussing this, we
realized that this is a very complex, almost forty-page bill and the intent with the
amendments that are currently before Council was to take the first step It was not
to solve all of the problems and redesign all forty (40) pages of the housing policy. It
was to take some actionable steps now in hopes of making a difference, to be able to
continue working on this over time, in separate sessions, on different topics in hopes
of trying to make it better, to see how it functions and to make changes. To see if it
is working, if it is not working, make more changes I do not want to speak for you,
however, I have not viewed this as the ultimate end of the road for a process in trying
to achieve affordable housing goals for Kaua`i
Committee Chair Kuali`i I would also add that we have amendments
still in the works We are working on items that are not ready today. As much as
possible, we are trying to address all of the different concerns Did you have
something9 Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock Thank you, Adam. There has been talk on
how we may be able to address the exemption or the fear behind the exemption You
also mentioned what we are really seeing now with the types of development in our
town core, the R-10 hits about the eighty percent (80%) to one hundred
percent (100%) AMI In thinking about how we are able to reach the goal of
affordability, the idea of capping it at a certain amount...whether it is one
hundred (100%) or one hundred twenty percent (120%), I would like to hear the
background on that and what the suggestion would be. I have heard one hundred
twenty percent (120%) However, based on the eighty percent (80%) to one hundred
percent (100%) that is showing up, would it not be wise to go with the one hundred
percent (100%)9
Mr Rovers'. I believe that we all really need to study the
financing numbers a little more before coming up with the "final number " It is likely
that some of the multi-family projects that currently rent for eighty percent (80%) to
one hundred percent (100%) could not be built today if they were required to rely
purely on projected rental income at the eighty percent (80%) level per se That points
out the difference between construction and development costs versus the income
that an owner can expect to make off of an apartment complex to pay off their
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 14 JULY 8, 2020
mortgage over time It is realistic for some of these older buildings However, if they
were required to exist exclusively on eighty percent (80%) to one hundred
percent (100%) income, I am not sure if they would be able to finance the building of
a new project today. When we get up to the one hundred twenty percent (120%)rental
levels, we would then begin to hit the realm of possibility where these types of projects
could be financially feasible to construct. They would make a reasonable profit, pay
off the loans, the note for construction, and allow them to exist My initial thought is
that the one hundred twenty percent (120%) requirement could be appropriate It
would still allow these sorts of projects to financially pencil out If we got enough
volume of them, I believe it will still drive rents in some of those units down and
below the one hundred twenty percent (120%) level to serve people that are at lower
incomes If we were to do something like this, we would technically be making a
partial exemption as opposed to an exemption being that we are still imposing some
sort of an income based requirement Have I answered the question? I am not
positive on what the right number is, but preliminarily, I think that one hundred
twenty percent (120%) might be appropriate
Councilmember Chock. Thank you for the response I think that you
are right To pencil it out for us here at this table will help us immensely in
determining what that number is. I am guessing that one hundred twenty
percent (120%) is most likely in upwards in what I heard with testimony today It
would cost approximately five hundred thousand dollars ($500,000) to build one (1)
of these condominiums.
Committee Chair Kuali`i We may be getting a little ahead of ourselves
being that would be one of our first amendment proposed today. I would like to add
to that and if I am understanding it correctly, should the one hundred twenty
percent (120%) AMI price limit or cap...that would apply to one hundred
percent (100%) of the units In some ways, if you are comparing that to the existing
housing policy where it only applies to thirty percent (30%) of the units, that thirty
percent (30%) is broken down into thirty percent (30%) at the eighty percent (80%)
AMI, forty percent (40%) at the one hundred percent (100%) AMI, and thirty
percent (30%) at the one hundred twenty percent (120%) AMI. In the end, although
you are getting a few more eighty percent (80%) and one hundred percent (100%)AMI
units, you are getting a lot more one hundred twenty percent (120%) or less, which is
all still in our affordable category or inventory...or the gap group even though it is on
the higher end. You are getting one hundred percent (100%) of the units as opposed
to only thirty percent (30%). Yes, we need to look at the math but as far as
volume-wise and keeping it below what people are worried about regarding luxury
developments and overpriced gentrification and resortification, that is not what we
are talking about when we are talking about multi-family workforce housing that
would happen under what we are proposing, correct?
Mr. Rovers'. I agree with you completely and that is a good
point. If we are imposing a thirty percent (30%).. let us say that we have one
hundred (100) units and we are imposing a thirty percent (30%) workforce housing
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 15 JULY 8, 2020
requirement, which I continually point out when they take advantage of various
incentives in the Housing ordinance, it usually does not end up at thirty
percent (30%), it usually ends up between fifteen percent (15%) and twenty
percent (20%) Out of one hundred (100) units, we would be getting fifteen (15) to
twenty (20) workforce housing units in a range of prices between eighty (80) and one
hundred twenty (120) Under this partial exemption with a one hundred twenty
percent (120%) for all units, we will be getting one hundred (100) units for workforce
housing as opposed to only fifteen (15) to twenty (20). As I pointed out in the op-ed
in the paper today, according to the State of Hawai`i Department of Economic
Development & Tourism, we have a demand between now and '2025 to fill current
housing needs on Kaua`i We have a deficit of over four thousand (4,000) housing
units Anything we are able to do to bolster an increase of supply more widely would
benefit especially if we are able to ensure that everyone in those units would be
serving the workforce housing
Committee Chair Kuali`i. In your statement earlier to not guess or a
pipedream and how you have done the survey. Even without the cap or the one
hundred twenty percent (120%) limit, we were believing that it would happen
However, with this amendment, we would actually add that in there for it to be
guaranteed.
Mr Rovers' If nothing else, to assuage community
concerns I do not know that it is entirely necessary given what the market shows us
today I would not be against the idea.
Committee Chair Kuali`i. That is the amendment you are going to have
to chime in on later today. Are there any further questions9 Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa Adam, the most recent large subdivision I am
able to think about is in Hanamd'ulu, by D R Horton I remember seeing that big
sign with prices starting at four hundred forty-four thousand dollars ($444,000). I
made the assumption and said, "You know, that place is going to be bought out by
people in the mainland " I actually drove through that subdivision and it looked like
majority of those owners were local families, longtime local families I am wondering
if you folks have a total of that amount knowing that we could possibly violate Federal
laws. I am wondering what the success rate is of that project As I mentioned, it
looks like ninety percent (90%) or more is longtime local residents It was actually
successful
Mr. Roversi. I actually spoke to Robert Rull from D.R.
Horton yesterday If I recall correctly as this was a brief phone call that did not
include all of the sales data, he iterated to me that all but one (1) unit of that entire
project was purchased by local residents That unit that was not an existing local
resident was moving from another island and already had employment here I do not
want to speak for him but that is my recollection. As a practical matter, that project
was by default all for local residents without imposing that requirement That takes
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 16 JULY 8, 2020
you to a point that Councilmember Evslin made in his Master's Thesis, and you are
able to correct me if I am wrong, I do not remember the exact numbers, but there was
an analysis of Real Estate sales on different parts of the island and a percentage of
sales in those areas that were to local residents versus mainland buyers. In some
areas of the island like on the North Shore, that number was near fifty-fifty or over
fifty percent (50%) mainland buyers. In the Lihu`e area, ninety percent (90%) plus
was local resident buyers in that area This is why it speaks to earlier days of
discussion on this policy we felt comfortable about the idea of creating these
exemptions for the Lihu`e area. It is because of the nature of the population that
tends to be attracted there and the people that want to move there and purchase
these houses The D R Horton project exemplifies that fact
Committee Chair Kuali`i Councilmember Cowden
Councilmember Cowden. Thank you. I have a few questions to what
you were speaking to and what you were speaking to me regarding my conversation
Are you looking at Section 7A-2 1, where we are looking at the general requirements
All the discussion you shared is relating to and under general requirements and how
we have the thirty percent (30%) inclusionary zoning, right9 Were you speaking to
that areal
Mr Rovers' I am not following the question
Councilmember Cowden Okay When I had made some comments of
concern...as we see the really big bounce in all of these letters that have a greater
concern than I do, they are concerned about the exempted areas The areas that are
exempted, these numbers like eighty percent (80%) and one hundred twenty
percent (120%) AMI, those are merely estimates and projections. They are not
requirements In Section 7A-2 1, that is general requirements, so it is not up to the
developer and if they are able to avoid it, they need to offer the eighty percent (80%)
to one hundred twenty percent (120%) In the exempted areas, we are presuming
that who wants to live on Rice Street other than especially there, it is not R-10. It
is R-40 plus an additional rental unit, so it is essentially R-80 We are presuming
that there will be a low rental amount and we are comparing it to the Lihu`e Town
Core. All of these numbers that you are giving, those are presumed for that area and
they would be accurate for general requirements Do you understand what I am
saying9
Mr Roversi These exemptions as proposed make
presumptions to the income ranges of individuals and the eventual rental prices that
would be charged
Councilmember Cowden. Yes.
Mr Roversi ...for multi-family type apartments
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 17 JULY 8, 2020
Councilmember Cowden. You are presuming those
Mr. Rovers" ...within the town core areas This is based
on the financial analysis from the Nexus Report as well as the tax in Lihu`e for rents
that are charged for current multi-family projects
Councilmember Cowden Okay, but we will acknowledge that they will
be market rate They are presumed that they would naturally fall into that range
Mr Rovers' You could say that the market rate for these
types of housing products or these types of apartments are workforce housing prices.
Councilmember Cowden. Yes, we could say that is accurate for right
now I am going to agree with that I would like to make a positive comment about
Grove Farm who has done most of the development in this area I would say that the
vast majority of it is sold to residents, which is basically our professional class and
working class We have market rate houses that have sold, they are not a developer
that is typically or to my knowledge that is selling luxury homes, correct?
Mr Rovers]. I believe that is correct
Councilmember Cowden I am wanting to acknowledge from the
beginning that most of the development here is basically selling to the local
community. What I had started off by saying where we have a different market right
now than when the Nexus Report was written or even last winter, is that there is a
fleeing of cities, because of the race riots and COVID-19 Perhaps by the time
anything is built, that will all be long passed, and people do not need to come here
It might be that time goes out. Where I was putting it in that context, I think you
had missed my point. My point was that the market has changed and what we had
decided last December might not be the case for this December.
Mr Roversi Whether there is increasing interests from
the mainland in purchasing houses on Kaua`i...broadly speaking, it is a separate
issue from the fact that our local residents need more housing units. I do not believe
it will be productive to fear mainland people moving here and say that we are not
going to incentivize building more housing units because non-residents may buy
them Our local people still need affordable housing.
Councilmember Cowden. I respectfully disagree.
Mr Roversi I do not know a lawful reason or method of
stopping people from coming here to buy houses.
Committee Chair Kuali`i I do not see a really good breaking point here
because this discussion is looking like it will go back and forth We are at our
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 18 JULY 8, 2020
lunchtime. Write down your notes for your next questions and let us recess for lunch
Thank you very much Housing Director. See you back at 1.30 p m
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 1231 p m
The meeting reconvened at 1.38 p.m., and proceeded as follows.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present)
Committee Chair Kuali`i. The meeting is called back to order. We were
in the middle of questions from Councilmember Cowden I do not see yet if Housing
Director Adam Rovers' is online—can you tell, Scott?
Mr. Rovers'. I am back if you can you hear me?
Committee Chair Kuali`i• We can hear you and we can see you
Councilmember Cowden has the floor and we will continue with her questions
Councilmember Cowden. I will actually yield for right now, listen to
what the other Councilmembers have to say, and if my questions do not get answered
within that, then I will ask
Committee Chair Kuali`i. Are there any further questions9
Councilmember Evshn.
Councilmember Evslin. I had a quick question for Adam. Can you run
us through where the exempt areas are on Kaua`i? I think that is part of the
misunderstanding out there. R-10 and above outside the Visitor Destination
Area (VDA) and Special Planning Districts, can you give us a run through on what
that entails.
Mr. Rovers'. Sure. There is a Lihu`e Town Core Special
Planning District, a Kalaheo Town Core Special Planning Area, I think it is called,
and a Kalaheo Special Planning Area I provided Council with the maps of those
areas I think they are probably, just as a practical matter, more limited than what
people have in mind when they think of Kalaheo or Koloa People usually kind of
think of the larger Kalaheo, Koloa, or the Lihu`e area
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present)
Mr Rovers" The Lihu`e Town Core Special Planning
District for instance does not cover a lot of the empty land heading out towards the
Wilcox Hospital area It really focuses on more or less the built town core area of
Lihu`e With regard to the second category exemption for R-10 lots and higher, the
lots zoned R-10 or higher are by and large concentrated in the Lihu`e and Puhi area
There are quite a few in some of the visitor destination areas along the Eastside and
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 19 JULY 8, 2020
in Po`ipu, but those areas are specifically excluded from having the planning
exemptions. Those are designed to accommodate condominiums, hotels, resorts, and
things like that This proposed amendment does not touch on those properties, they
are not covered in the exemption There are a smattering of R-10 lots here and there.
There is one (1) in Waimea and a few here and there Like I mentioned, there is a
bunch in Kapa`a, all along the ocean, which are not part of the exemption—they are
expressly excluded By and large, they are generally in the Lihu`e area, in Puhi, and
around the Lihu`e Town Core Along with the town core area exemption, they work
hand-in-hand and that we are trying to incentivize multi-family, high density
development within the Lihu`e Town Core, so the Lihu`e area The town core
exemption covers the specific rather limited map of the Lihu`e Town Center, the R-10
expands some of those to some parcels that are outside of that specific map boundary,
but are also by and large within the Lihu`e Town Core area, with a few in Puhi across
from the community college and adjacent to the new commercial area where Safeway
and so forth are in there
Councilmember Evslin One of the op-eds in the paper referenced that
there was a possible conflict of interest because they said that there was a Grove
Farm property in Po`ipu that would be exempt and that they are planning a large
development there Does that development have R-10 and above or would that be
exempt?
Mr Roversi• There is an area in the General Plan that is
called out for a future town development in Po`ipu on currently empty land, but these
exemptions as currently written do not cover that property at all They are not
covered by a special planning area exemption, they are not covered by a zoning
density exemption If at some future County Council decided to up-zone all of that
land, I guess technically then you would have to ask that question again, but
presumably the County could make all of those sort of policy-based decisions when it
comes time to think about whether or not to permit that development to move forward
in the first place Realistically that is decades down the line and our lives will all be
different by then We will no doubt have a whole new array of concerns, but as
presently proposed, none of those exemptions cover that referenced property in
Po`ipu
Councilmember Evslin Thank you very much, Adam.
Committee Chair Kuali`i Does anyone have further questions?
Councilmember Cowden
Councilmember Cowden• The last time we spoke there was some
discussion that maybe there would be other special management areas in Kekaha,
`Ele`ele, Kilauea—there has been some reference to other areas. What would it take
to have those things occur?
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 20 JULY 8, 2020
Mr Rovers'• The westside special planning areas are part
of the Westside Community Plan, which I believe that the Planning Commission has
approved, the Planning Department should be transmitting to Council, as I
understand it, sometime in July for review and consideration, just as you reviewed
and considered the General Plan Assuming that you reviewed those planning areas
and the community's desires and intentions for those areas, it would be up to Council
whether to, by further amendment, add those as possible exempt areas or not I
would not think it was necessarily an automatic thing, I would encourage Council to
read the plans that the community has put forth for those areas and be sure that
what the community and the Planning Commission in that public process is putting
forth as their vision for their community meshes with the idea of having more
multi-family high density development in those areas. Just as an example, when we
were originally working on the idea of creating town core exempt areas, we were
looking at areas where town plans already existed. In Kilauea, for example, there is
an existing town core plan, but that town plan specifically calls for their own
affordable housing requirements that are different from the Housing policy To me,
it did not seem appropriate to try to put that into this Bill as an exemption when the
community is specifically asking for something different Granted that town plan is
now more than a decade old and it is probably due for an update when as the
Planning Department goes around the island and updates their plans for the North
Shore at some point, they will have a North Shore plan and area plans for up there
Maybe when the community comes back, re-conceptualizes what their vision is for
the community, it may or may not be appropriate to think about adding, but again, it
would have to be a place-specific decision for each location as opposed to just sort of
an automatic thing that all special planning areas and town core areas go in here as
an exemption I would not suggest such a blanket idea
Councilmember Cowden Okay, so I am just clarifying it for anyone
concerned, no future special planned area is going to naturally just fall under the
exemption criteria unless the Council and the community agrees to that
Mr. Rovers' You are exactly right Correct
Councilmember Cowden Thank you
Committee Chair Kualh`' If there are no additional questions, I will call
the meeting back to order and then Councilmember Evsl'n will introduce the first
amendment
The meeting was called back to order and proceeded as follows.
Councilmember Evslin moved to amend Bill No. 2774, Draft 1 as circulated,
and as shown in the Floor Amendment which is attached hereto as
Attachment 1, seconded by Councilmember Chock
Committee Chair Kual'`' Councilmember Evslin.
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 21 JULY 8, 2020
Councilmember Evshn• The proposed amendment would simply
require...in order to get the exemption that all units in that development be at or
under one hundred twenty percent (120%) AMI This exemption came out of
discussions and recommendation from the Housing Director.
Committee Chair Kuali`i. Are there any questions
Councilmember Cowden• I have a clarifying question. Then it would
not be like thirty percent (30%) would fall, it is one hundred percent (100%) would
fall within one hundred twenty percent (120%), correct?
Councilmember Evslin Yes
Committee Chair Kuali`i Are there any further questions9
Council Chair Kaneshiro I have a quick question
Committee Chair Kualh`i Yes, Council Chair Kaneshiro
Council Chair Kaneshiro Would it still be considered an exemption?
Committee Chair Kualh`i I know that you, Housing Director, was
calling it a partial exemption, right? Because in a sense and it might be as we work
on it further, that we separate it from the true exemption, which is like the affordable
housing projects, right? The "D" on the bottom. Therefore, it is a partial exemption
Council Chair Kaneshiro Later on, if you wanted to change that section
on the exemption part to "partial" or something else to make it a little more clear
Committee Chair Kualh`i I want to remind folks that we are continuing
the work on this and it is my intention that at the end of today that this will be
deferred I do not want to get lost in all of the language, try to rush to get staff to
change things, because we can amend the proposed amendments at any time Are
there any further questions? It is pretty clear Councilmember Kagawa
Councilmember Kagawa I think this is one of the sticky points that I
am being told by some of the people affected, the developers, that the drop from one
hundred forty (140) to one hundred twenty (120)will basically produce nothing. They
are still saying that they do not see anything happening and they are guaranteeing
it. However, Committee Chair Kuah'i made me feel a lot better by saying that we are
still in the process of working on this After this meeting, we are able to adjust that
number if the consensus is, after more meetings and discussion, that number could
change. It is not like a final decision I am not supportive of going down from one
hundred forty (140) to one hundred twenty (120), however, I know we still have time
to alter it if we deem necessary
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 22 JULY 8, 2020
Committee Chair Kuali`i Should we go to final comments or does
anyone still have questions of Mr Rovers'?
Councilmember Chock. I have a question
Committee Chair Kuali`i Okay, go ahead
Councilmember Chock This brings me back to my original question
about the need for us to solidify this by having numbers or figures to really look at to
make the determination My request would be...I do not mind supporting this in the
direction that it is going, but to solidify it, we need to be able to have those projections
before us and maybe at the next meeting. Either we defer this or I do not mind voting
on it with the understanding that there is a little bit more work that needs to be done
Committee Chair Kuali`i Yes As with the entire Bill and all of our
amendments, we will continue working on it, but I would prefer that we pass
something, so that the people can start looking at what we are working on
Councilmember Cowden- Just a simple question for Director Rovers'
Committee Chair Kuali`i Go ahead
Councilmember Cowden• What would one hundred twenty (120)AMI be
today? What would that price be for a two-bedroom?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended
Mr Rovers' If we are talking...there are different
numbers for sale versus rent. For example, today, a unit that is "for sale" that is a
two-bedroom, at one hundred twenty percent (120%) of Kaua`i median income would
be five hundred thirty-three thousand dollars ($533,000) One hundred forty
percent (140%) by comparison, a two-bedroom would be six hundred thirty-nine
thousand dollars ($639,000)
Councilmember Cowden. Excuse me, what did you say?
Mr Rovers" The hundred twenty percent (120%) in a two-
bedroom under the numbers today.. this changes every year based on the United
States Department of Housing and Urban Development's (HUD's) annual numbers,
but one hundred twenty percent (120%) for sale price of a two-bedroom would be five
hundred thirty-three thousand six hundred dollars ($533,600).
Councilmember Cowden• Okay What about the one hundred forty
percent (140%)?
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 23 JULY 8, 2020
Mr. Roversi. It would be six hundred thirty-one thousand
three hundred dollars ($631,300).
Councilmember Cowden: What about for rent?
Mr Rovers' Rent limits for a five-bedroom...I will stick
with a two-bedroom for comparison since that is what I started with A
two-bedroom...there are differences between whether you pay all of your utilities or
your utilities are paid for you A two-bedroom at one hundred twenty percent (120%)
Kaua`i area median income would max out, including all utilities, would be two
thousand seven hundred fifty dollars ($2,750) One hundred forty percent (140%) by
comparison, including all utilities, would be three thousand two hundred eighty
dollars ($3,280)
Councilmember Cowden• Are we talking .
Mr. Roversi. In today's numbers
Councilmember Cowden Are we talking about an apartment or a
house?
Mr. Roversi. This is simply based on bedroom counts, so it
does not differentiate between apartments and houses.
Councilmember Cowden. Okay. Thank you.
Committee Chair Kuali`i. If there are no further questions, I will call the
meeting back to order and we will take the vote.
The meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows.
The motion to amend Bill No. 2774, Draft 1 as circulated, and as shown in the
Floor Amendment which is attached hereto as Attachment 1 was then put, and
unanimously carried
Committee Chair Kuali`i• Do you want to say something else9
Councilmember Cowden I am shocked at how much money that is
Committee Chair Kuali`i It is set by HUD, we do not set that amount
It needs to be below that.
Councilmember Cowden Right It is a staggeringly high number, so I
am saying, "Yes, with reservations " That is an amazing amount that I do not think
that even well-paid working people could pay, easily
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 24 JULY 8, 2020
Committee Chair Kuall'i: Okay. Are there any further amendments?
No further amendments?
Councilmember Cowden• Could I introduce an amendment at the next
meeting9
Committee Chair Kuall'i Yes, do you want to work on it now9
Councilmember Cowden. Yes. Actually, I will introduce my
amendment. Do we have my amendment
Committee Chair Kuah'i Yes, at least get it out there for receipt
Councilmember Cowden I will get it out there for receipt
Councilmember Cowden moved to amend Bill No 2774, Draft 1 as amended,
as circulated, and as shown in the Floor Amendment which is attached hereto
as Attachment 2, seconded by Councilmember Kagawa
Councilmember Cowden This amendment is removing the exemption
on everything It is worthy for the conversation and the difference When we look at
Councilmember Evslin's amendment, it puts a cap on the one hundred twenty
percent (120%), I see a lot of value in that, however, I would like that to be in
consideration if we simply removed it If so, that would be going back towards the
thirty percent (30%) inclusionary, so there would be more at the market rate. I have
a question for Mr Rovers'
Committee Chair Kuall'i. I am going to suspend the rules and have
Housing Director Rovers" answer questions from Councilmember Cowden
There being no objections, the rules were suspended, and proceeded as follows
Councilmember Cowden. What is eighty percent (80%) of AMI for a
two-bedroom for both purchase and rent?
Mr Rovers' Eighty percent (80%) rent for a two-bedroom
unit would be.. this includes all of the utilities, it would be one thousand seven
hundred forty-nine dollars ($1,749) per month
Councilmember Cowden Okay. There is probably not an eighty
percent (80%) purchase or is there?
Mr. Rovers'. There is The purchase price at eighty
percent (80%)AMI of a two-bedroom would be three hundred nineteen thousand nine
hundred dollars ($319,900) There is a slight difference in all of these numbers, if we
are talking condominiums, because it presumes that they are also going to be paying
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 25 JULY 8, 2020
a condominium fee The price is a little less for condominiums As an example, a
two-bedroom condominium priced at eighty percent (80%)AMI would be two hundred
seventy-seven thousand two hundred dollars ($277,200) or less
Councilmember Cowden Okay Just so we have it all, do you have one
hundred percent (100%)9
Mr Rovers' One hundred percent (100%), the sale price of
a two-bedroom unit would be four hundred thirty-five thousand seven hundred
dollars ($435,700), that is a fee simple sale price. A condominium unit at that same
one hundred percent (100%) AMI, a two-bedroom, would be three hundred
ninety-three thousand dollars ($393,000)
Councilmember Cowden• What would the rents be on the one hundred
percent (100%) and eighty percent (80%)9
Mr Rovers' The eighty percent (80%), a two-bedroom,
rent including all utilities, is one thousand seven hundred forty-nine dollars ($1,749).
Councilmember Cowden. Okay
Mr Rovers' Without including utilities, it would be one
thousand four hundred thirty-four dollars ($1,434).
Councilmember Cowden. What is it for one hundred percent (100%)7
Mr Roversi At the one hundred percent (100%) number,
two-bedroom, inclusive of all utilities, would be two thousand two hundred ninety-one
dollars ($2,291) Excluding utilities, would be one thousand nine hundred seventy-six
dollars ($1,976)
Councilmember Cowden Okay. Obviously if you have the spread like
we have, it pushes the market rates up substantially being that it needs to be paid
for somewhere
Mr Rovers' I did not follow exactly.
Councilmember Cowden I am explaining to people who might be
listening if we have the spread of eighty (80), one hundred (100), and one hundred
twenty (120), that extra cost gets pushed on to the market rate houses.
Councilmember Kagawa Separate
Councilmember Cowden. That are in the same kind of
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 26 JULY 8, 2020
Mr Rovers] Generally, that is correct If the developer is
going to be required to produce eighty percent (80%)AMI units, but broadly speaking,
those will all be priced at less than what it cost the developer to build them In order
to pay the difference between their costs and the actual sale price they can recover,
they will have to make up that loss by charging higher prices for other units
Councilmember Cowden• We just passed an amendment at one hundred
twenty percent (120%) where it would hold them all at the same rate, where the
amendment that I just suggested, we are going to have a range of rates, but probably
a substantial amount of those units would be above the one hundred twenty
percent (120%)9 If math holds out the normal way.
Mr Rovers] Yes, but I would also offer just one other
observation Essentially, if I understand it correctly, your amendment is basically to
go back to the status quo...
Councilmember Cowden Yes
Mr Roversi ...which is the current Housing Ordinance
We have been operating under that ordinance for more than a decade...
Councilmember Cowden I understand that
Mr Rovers]• We have received thirty percent (30%) of
nothing
Councilmember Cowden I understand the implications I am looking
at just the numbers
Mr Rovers] I understand
Councilmember Cowden. I am just making it clear if there was a
building build-out at the status quo, there would be less available units at the one
hundred twenty (120) amount or less? We are actually putting less units out there
available.
Committee Chair Kualh`] Housing Director Rovers], I think I can help,
because I have actual numbers If you compared the thirty percent (30%) current
policy and then this new policy with the zero and the one hundred twenty (120) cap,
if you were looking at two hundred (200) units, I used two hundred (200) because it
comes out even For the thirty percent (30%) of two hundred (200) units, you have
sixty (60) affordable units If you take the sixty (60) affordable units and you break
it down with the AMI, that I think we are looking at now as thirty percent (30%) for
eighty percent (80%), forty percent (40%) for one hundred percent (100%), and thirty
percent (30%) for one hundred twenty percent (120%), you have eighteen (18) units
at the eighty percent (80%)—lowest level, twenty-four (24) units at the one hundred
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 27 JULY 8, 2020
percent (100%) level, and eighteen (18) units at the one hundred twenty
percent (120%) level After the sixty (60), there is still an additional one hundred
forty (140) units that could be at the one hundred forty percent (140%) or higher level
If you take that same two hundred (200) with the new amendment and the new
direction we are going in, all two hundred (200) are at the one hundred twenty
percent (120%) or lower Our feeling is that when you are talking about multi-family
workforce housing and apartment buildings and what he has looked at by surveying
on Rice Street, is that it would be lower than that This one hundred twenty
percent (120%) makes sure that it stays at that or lower. Therefore, you would have
all two hundred (200) units at one hundred twenty percent (120%) or lower or you
would have on the existing side, only sixty (60) units at the one hundred twenty
percent (120%) or lower. The added benefit of having a few at eighty percent (80%)
and one hundred percent (100%), you would offset the other side by having them all
at one hundred twenty percent (120%) or less.
Councilmember Cowden Given that, I withdraw my motion to amend
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded
as follows
Councilmember Cowden withdrew the motion to amend Bill No. 2774, Draft 1
as amended, as circulated, and as shown in the Floor Amendment which is
attached hereto as Attachment 2. Councilmember Kagawa withdrew the
second
Committee Chair Kuali`i. Council Chair Kaneshiro
Council Chair Kaneshiro. I have a quick question. Adam, is there a
website to get the HUD numbers?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended
Mr Roversi All of the numbers are on the bottom of the
front page of the Housing Agency's website.
Council Chair Kaneshiro Okay, thank you
Committee Chair Kuali`i Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock Adam, in the Nexus Study or any other
studies that you have come across, have you seen any system where they approached
it from a tiered approach and having different options available—anywhere from
eighty (80) to one hundred twenty (120)? Certainly different developers, with
different situations, in different areas might be able to apply with
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 28 JULY 8, 2020
Councilmember Chock ...the variance that we could offer, have you
seen anything like that?
Mr Roversi I have not studied the policies in other areas,
except for the extent that I relied on the Nexus Report, which studied similar policies
in other areas when analyzing our policy They compared Kaua`i's ordinance with
sort of standards nationally in different jurisdictions across the Country that also
operated various types of inclusionary zoning policies Other than that, I am not able
to speak to the specific success or failure of similar policies in other places, other than
relying on that report To be honest, I think Councilmember Evshn has probably
done more comparative research about other jurisdictions than I have
Committee Chair Kuah`i• Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden This one hundred twenty percent (120%) that
is going to crossover to the R-20s and the R-10s in all of the other areas Effectively,
when we have this one hundred twenty percent (20%) cap, we are going to be creating
more affordable housing wherever they might end up than if we had the thirty
percent (30%) with that other range?
Mr Rovers]• That is precisely the goal of the planned
multi-family exemption or partial exemption However we want to phrase it, it is to
incentivize getting more of these units quickly built
Committee Chair Kuali`i I think I would add that in the past maybe
ten (10) to twenty (20) years ago, everyone believed and maybe it was true too, but
everyone wanted a single-family house with a big yard, a fence, and dogs While that
still may be true, people more than that just want a place They want a place that
they can call their home rather living three (3) generations overcrowded in the same
house People are willing now to live in a smaller place and perhaps an apartment
without a yard Of course some people like that because yard work is a lot We are
moving into a different time and the need for so much housing means we need
everyone pitching in and building all types of housing for people to live in I hope we
have a lot more town homes, Lihu`e Town Court, and Kalapaki Villas When I first
started out, I lived in Kalapaki Villas
Councilmember Cowden I have a final question and I know it is a
theoretic question. When I look at this one hundred twenty percent (120%) AMI for
the two-bedroom, someone has to rent that for two thousand seven hundred fifty
dollars ($2,750) per month How do you respond to the fact that probably most people
here cannot pay that? Am I wrong on that? I do not know hardly anyone who can
pay that.
Councilmember Kagawa• They do
Councilmember Cowden Do they pay that?
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 29 JULY 8, 2020
Councilmember Kagawa They do
Mr Rovers'. I certainly hope that much like the existing
market conditions on Kaua`', I went over the price earlier, the income ranges of
existing multi-family projects in Lihu`e No one but the market and the availability
of renters is driving these prices Therefore, if there are no tenants out there who
can afford to pay two thousand seven hundred dollars ($2,700) per month, the owners
of the buildings are going to have to charge less or they are going to be sitting empty.
If we can generate enough supply, the hope is that the supply of units and the
availability of individuals to pay rent will be the controlling factor and not just an
arbitrary one hundred twenty percent (120%) number on a chart My expectation
would be that in reality, the actual rents charged or the sale prices of condominium
apartments would in fact be below the one hundred twenty percent (120%) number
That is based on the current market. Again, markets are always changing, I am not
able to guarantee that in the future. This is an educated presumption based on the
facts and information we have available to us today. This is precisely the reason that
I encourage there be a sunset provision to this section of the policy, so that as
conditions change, Council is required to come back and look at to say, "Has this
worked? If it has, we can renew this." If it has not worked, we are being forced to
make modifications and either abandon it entirely, change the numbers around, or
fix it as conditions require.
Councilmember Cowden Thank you.
Committee Chair Kualh`' Are there any final questions for the Director?
I will call this meeting back to order
The meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows.
Committee Chair Kual'`' Members, is there any final discussion before
I ask for a motion to defer? Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa I want to thank you folks for making the
decision to defer I have one (1) request I hope we can add to the series of meetings
individually, maybe perhaps a meeting with a lot of the players all together, Kaua`'
Board of Realtors, Contractor's Association, and invite some of the contacts who have
contact with developers and perhaps have them all together I think there is some
misunderstanding of what is in the Nexus Report, even Councilmembers are not fully
aware of what is in the nexus and the history If we do not do anything and we get
the same results as the past, we will get zero We need to do something, we need to
try to do something different. We need to try and add. again, some people do not
like it being called "inventory," but I think it perfectly fits. We have a shortage that
Adam just went over, four thousand (4,000) to five thousand (5,000) people without
homes and without ownership of homes What are they doing? They are either living
with family or they are renting Believe me, they are paying enormous rents. A
three-bedroom in Hanapepe goes over two thousand dollars ($2,000). If you rent a
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 30 JULY 8, 2020
three-bedroom in Lihu'e, you will be paying close to three thousand dollars ($3,000)
or more It is very expensive People are struggling Why not just buy a five hundred
thousand dollar ($500,000) house in Lihu'e when it goes on sale? It is because they
do not have the down payment. They are living pay check to pay check They are
paying large sums of monthly rent and they are not able to save for the down
payment That is the problem We talk about affordable housing You are not able
to only think about the eighty percent (80%) and below There is a large group from
the one hundred forty percent (140%) to the eighty percent (80%) who need homes,
and they are proving that if we have the inventory, they will buy Look at
Hanamd'ulu It is proven that there is a shortage of homes and it does not necessarily
need to be under four hundred thousand dollars ($400,000), which all of us would love
to see—we would love to see that, because that is a realistic number. It is the
developers who are going to build it, we do not have the money to build it within our
County. We have to rely on the developers The developers are telling us right now
that the one hundred twenty (120) seems skeptical They do not know if they can do
it because of the infrastructure needs and things they have to do prior to building,
but it is better than nothing I am not cutting you down We would like to achieve
the one hundred twenty (120) It sounds reasonable for the developers, but from what
they are saying is that the one hundred twenty (120) will get nothing, that is their
prediction We need to leave it at something like one hundred forty (140) and let the
market take its place, just like Hanamd'ulu We thought Hanamd'ulu was way
overpriced, starting at four hundred forty-four thousand dollars ($444,000), I thought
"no way," but it totally filled up with local residents. If we do not push out something
soon, I feel worried for the future because it takes time for developments to be built
Right now, basically on the private end, we have nothing. It is just County projects
that are moving A lot of the County projects are being geared to the lower AMI, so I
think it is about balance You cannot only make the folks who are above the
requirement subsidize the lower amounts. We need affordable housing for everyone
Everyone is important Not just the folks who are way below We try to help the
needy, that is human nature, but the needy portion is also between the eighty (80)
and one hundred forty (140) as well. Thank you, Chair
Committee Chair Kualh`i Is there anyone else with final discussion?
Councilmember Evslin.
Councilmember Evslin Thank you Committee Chair Kuala'', Council
Chair Kaneshiro, and Housing Director Rovers' for all the work you folks have done
on this and for all the communication that has been ongoing over these last few
months, especially these last few days Regarding all of the testimony that we
received, to be honest, I can understand why people are upset. When you hear
something that sounds like we are getting rid of thirty percent (30%) of affordable
housing or misconceptions that we are exempting all developers, but really the root
of this that people are thinking we are getting rid of thirty percent (30%) of affordable
housing on Kaua'i If we were building other homes and we were really getting thirty
percent (30%) affordable, then certainly I would be upset too Like we said so many
times the problem is that that is not the case, right, we are building very few homes
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 31 JULY 8, 2020
on Kaua`i and the ordinance has never been triggered. Therefore, it is producing a
very literally zero All those ways we kept on trying to cut the thirty percent (30%),
the different levels Adam said it pretty well, none of that matters because we are
getting zero. That is the status quo. In the beginning when we heard testimony from
the person that used the car analogy and I think it is a relevant analogy. If we are
trying to find an affordable car, you buy an older car I have never owned a car that
was newer than ten (10) years old, cars depreciate every year, and we have come to
expect that. The only way that would not happen is if we stopped selling cars entirely
on Kaua`i. No new cars come in, yet our population keeps growing and the opposite
will happen—the cars will appreciate in value every year That is what is happening
to our housing market We are building so few newer homes on Kaua`i We used to
build on average six hundred (600) homes per year between 1978 and 2010, we were
building an average of two hundred (200) homes per year Not only are we not getting
any affordable homes, but we are not building homes to cover our natural born
population, which is the largest source of our population growth That is the source
of our housing crisis. Based on the Federal Reserve data of an existing home resale,
the cost of housing has gone up fifty percent (50%) since 2012 If you bought a home,
the exact same house...my used home bought in 2012 for five hundred thousand
dollars ($500,000), it would be seven hundred eighty thousand dollars ($780,000) if
sold today. It would be a fifty-eight percent (58%) increase That is forty thousand
dollars ($40,000) per year. That means someone is making nineteen dollars ($19) an
hour, equivalent to a full-time job, based on a rate increasing valuation It is not as
if that money is coming out of thin air—that money is literally coming out of the
pockets of my generation or anyone who is trying to buy or rent a house I was lucky
enough to buy a house two (2)years ago in Lihu`e. It was the cheapest house we could
find in Lihu`e, it was five hundred seventy-five thousand dollars ($575,000) I was
�► super fortunate, I got a loan through my parents to do it, and it was out of my price
range at the time To make it work, we had to convert a portion of it to be a rental
unit That exact same house, I checked on Zillow just this morning, it is six hundred
fifty-five thousand dollars ($655,000)—the exact same thing, forty thousand
dollars ($40,000) increase per year on that house. If I had waited, I could not have
bought that house right now This is happening to the next generation Again, it is
coming from our current Housing Ordinance Back to the car analogy, there is a
famous example when Toyota there were strict quotas on how many cars Toyota
could bring in When they could not bring in that many cars, they wanted to
maximize the amount of value that they could of those that they were bringing in, so
they invented Lexus to make a higher valued product I think it is the same thing
we are seeing here on Kaua`i and it is clearly what our Housing nexus is saying, right?
Our current Housing Ordinance incentivizes the creation of luxury units, because it
makes a reverse incentive on density. Luxury units are feasible; the smaller you get
the less feasible the units get and then you get to apartments, which are entirely
infeasible based on the current markets. Therefore, we have one percent (1%) of
housing construction over the last decade in our multi-family districts within our
town cores and eighty percent (80%) of construction on agricultural land and no
density residential land According to our General Plan, this is consuming our
agricultural land, making people drive farther, it is causing traffic issues, increasing
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 32 JULY 8, 2020
greenhouse gas emissions, it is causing infrastructure crisis we are trying to
maintain all of this. That is the crisis, right? Regardless of what the details are in
the Bill, at the least, I am hoping we are able to get around that and the problem we
are trying to solve here...in some capacity I appreciate all the work that you folks
have done I appreciate that we are having a robust community dialogue on this and
I hope we can get to somewhere productive to solve this crisis as soon as we can.
Committee Chair Kuali`i Thank you Councilmember Evslin
Councilmember Chock
Councilmember Chock. Thank you Let me take a different approach
and say, you know what we have heard in the last week was, "Say 'no' to
Bill No. 2774," and it was based on this scathing article about the downfalls of it I
can tell you right now that no one is happy with the current version of this Bill. The
developers are not happy with not getting the one hundred forty (140) AMI. The
affordable housing advocates are not happy unless they get the one hundred (100%)
AMI In many ways, I feel like our job has been to try and find that balance in order
to get a sweet spot so that something happens If we do not do anything, we will get
more of nothing—that is very clear To all of those people who are emailing and
saying, "Kill the Bill," I would respond and say that you do not want that What we
need is constructive interaction Come to the table and problem solve to decide what
that sweet spot is I believe we are moving towards this I want to thank the
introducers for at least allowing us to have that conversation We are here today,
based on some of the conversation and feedback that we received, we have put
together the one hundred twenty (120) AMI on this exemption, which is really taking
away from the exemption, but I think it is in response to what the community's
concern and fears are about not having any affordable housing Is there more to do?
Yes, absolutely I am looking forward to actually taking this piece by piece—the
thirty percent (30%), the Nexus Report maybe on another meeting, so that we can get
to a resolution on this I do not think anyone will be truly happy in the end and you
know what, that might be okay Thank you
Committee Chair Kuali`i• Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden. I want to just extend my appreciation to
everyone and when I was looking at the newspaper.. we have someone saying
something for it and someone saying something against it I am really glad that there
is engagement I thank everyone who wrote the letters and many people were
advocating for people who have less than they do, so it was not all selfishly placed in
there It has made a difference in having people come together. I am happy that we
have moved to a point where it is actually better than it was, right? Possibly, as long
as we can figure out a way to build it and in agreement with what is being said, we
are by no means done. I would encourage different community associations in
different areas to actually pay attention to what this is, because I know I would like
to see it be considered in each of our different regions of the island The more we all
come together, the better it is
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 33 JULY 8, 2020
Committee Chair Kuali`i. Is there anyone else? Councilmember Evslin
Councilmember Evslin I realize that maybe I got too lost in my
analogy there and I might have gotten emotional at the end and forgot my point. The
point is that we need the exemptions or some form of the exemptions to incentivize
housing within our town cores Literally the majority of affordable housing around
the country comes from aging homes filtering into the affordable housing market
That does not happen in Kaua`i. My point was to say that the opposite of that is
happening Our old homes are skyrocketing in price. The only way to get our old
homes to at least stabilize in value is to get housing supply that can approximately
match the approximate increase in demand, or an increasing population growth on
Kaua`i The las two (2) last things I will finish up with—there is so many evidence
out there of"too high" affordable housing requirements leading to less construction,
higher home prices across the board and more luxury housing units This is the
problem that is happening everywhere in a similar way I would have to say,
personally, for me that I was not always onboard with this Two (2) years ago, it did
not make sense to me Why would you try and reduce affordable housing
requirements to produce more affordable housing? I went to a panel discussion for
affordable housing at a planning conference. One of the panelists there had this great
quote, which has stuck with me ever since. I wrote it down on the spot and I would
like to quickly read it. An affordable housing advocate said, "If cities began adopting
ten percent (10%) or twenty percent (20) inclusionary zoning policies, it becomes a
housing suppression tool. You will self-righteously produce less housing to the
detriment of black and brown people This is fueling the problem in cities that could
be and should be (Inaudible) " At the time when I heard that I was totally shocked
It is like she was speaking right to me, I have been an advocate of this exact thing
and since then I tried to do my best to understand the problem I think that this Bill
gets to the heart of a lot of that and I appreciate all the work that has been done
Committee Chair Kuali`i• Thank you, Councilmember Evslin Is there
anyone else? I will not repeat what everyone has said, I appreciate everything that
you have said—I ditto that I just want to say that I appreciate all of your work today,
your continued work, and I look forward to us continuing in the next couple of weeks.
One thing that I will say is that, yes, I appreciate us acting on this one hundred
twenty percent (120%) AMI. As the Housing Director called it a partial exemption,
in many ways what it also is, is another assessment that is different Rather than
the thirty percent (30%) assessment, which gets you x amount of units below one
hundred twenty percent (120%), but it gives you some at eighty (80) and some at one
hundred (100), it is one hundred percent (100%) that is under one hundred twenty
percent (120%) for these specific areas and for the R-10 density If you just look at
the numbers, there is a value call, because you are giving up some at the eighty (80)
and one hundred percent (100%), but you are getting all at the one hundred twenty
percent (120%) or lower Again, what the Housing Director has shared with us about
the apartments, the market, and as it is now, it is our hope that it will stay there or
that when we have more supply of these multi-family workforce housing that it will
help keep the prices down or it will bring it down further with greater supply I am
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 34 JULY 8, 2020
looking forward to the next few amendments next week, two (2) weeks from now
Unless anyone has anything else to say, I will ask for a motion to defer
Upon motion duly made by Councilmember Chock, seconded by
Councilmember Kagawa, and unanimously carried, Bill No 2774, Draft 2 was
deferred
There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 2.28 p.m.
Re I ectfully submitted,
r1
(,)
KarLyn Sukehira
Council Services Assistant I
APPROVED/ at the Committee Meeting held on August 5, 2020
; w
KIPUKJ1I KUALI`I
Chair, HIR Committee
*Beginning with the March 11, 2020 Council Meeting and until further notice,
Councilmember Arthur Brun will not be present due to U.S. v. Arthur Brun et al.,
Cr. No. 20-00024-DKW (United States District Court), and therefore will be noted as
excused (i.e., not present).
ATTACHMENT 1
(July 8, 2020)
FLOOR AMENDMENT
Bill No. 2774, Draft 1, Relating to Housing Policy for the County of Kaua`i
Introduced by: LUKE A. EVSLIN (By Request)
Amend Bill No. 2774, Draft 1, by amending proposed Sec. 7A-1.4.2, Exemptions, to
read as follows:
"Sec. 7A-1.4.2 Exemptions.
The workforce housing requirements of this Chapter shall not apply to
the following:
(a) Projects within the following special planning areas and design
districts, developed at or above the maximum density allowed, or in areas
subject to form based codes developed as multi-family projects, in which all
developed units will be priced at or below one hundred twenty percent (120%)
of the Kaua`i median household income:
(1) Lihu`e Town Core Urban Design District as defined in
Title IV, Chapter 10, Article 5A.
(2) Koloa Town Walkable Mixed Use District as defined in
Title IV, Chapter 10, Article 6.
(3) Kalaheo Town Walkable Mixed Use District as defined in
Title IV, Chapter 10, Article 6.
(b) Projects outside of Visitor Destination Areas and Special
Management Areas in residential or mixed use zoning districts with a density
of R-10 or greater, consisting of multiple or single family attached dwellings,
developed at or above the maximum density [allowed.] allowed, in which all
developed units will be priced at or below one hundred twenty percent (120%)
of the Kaua`i median household income.
(c) Any affordable or workforce housing development developed by
or for the County, either by itself or in partnership with another housing
development organization, is exempt from the requirements of this Chapter.
(d) The exemptions in subsection (a) for special planning areas and
design districts and in subsection (b) relating to zoning density shall expire
ten (10) years from the date of their adoption."
(Material to be deleted is bracketed. Material to be added is underscored. All
material is new.)
V:\AMENDMENTS\2020\FA- 2774d1 multifamily-LE-Amk_lc.doc
ATTACHMENT 2
(July 8, 2020)
FLOOR AMENDMENT
Bill No. 2774, Draft 1, Relating to Housing Policy for the County of Kauai
Introduced by: Councilmember Felicia Cowden
Amend Bill No. 2774, Draft 1, by deleting the SECTION 13 in its entirety as
follows, and renumbering all subsequent sections accordingly.
[SECTION 13. Chapter 7A, Kaua`i County Code 1987, as amended, is
hereby amended by adding a new Sec. 7A-1.4.2, Exemptions, as follows:
"Sec. 7A-1.4.2 Exemptions.
The workforce housing requirements of this Chapter shall not apply to
the following:
(a) Projects within the following special planning areas and design
districts, developed at or above the maximum density allowed, or in areas
subject to form based codes developed as multi-family projects:
(1) Lihu`e Town Core Urban Design District as defined in
Title IV, Chapter 10, Article 5A.
(2) Koloa Town Walkable Mixed Use District as defined in
Title IV, Chapter 10, Article 6.
(3) Kalaheo Town Walkable Mixed Use District as defined in
Title IV, Chapter 10, Article 6.
(b) Projects outside of Visitor Destination Areas and Special
Management Areas in residential or mixed use zoning districts with a density
of R-10 or greater, consisting of multiple or single family attached dwellings,
developed at or above the maximum density allowed.
(c) Any affordable or workforce housing development developed by
or for the County, either by itself or in partnership with another housing
development organization, is exempt from the requirements of this Chapter.
(d) The exemptions in subsection (a) for special planning areas and
design districts and in subsection (b) relating to zoning density shall expire
ten (10) years from the date of their adoption."]
(Material to be deleted is bracketed. Sec. 7A-1.4.2, Exemptions, is new.)
V:\AMENDMENTS\2020\FA- 2774 fc no exemptions FCjy.doc
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