HomeMy WebLinkAbout07/22/2020 Housing & IGR Committee minutes MINUTES
HOUSING & INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS COMMITTEE
July 22, 2020
A meeting of the Housing & Intergovernmental Relations Committee of the
Council of the County of Kaua`i, State of Hawaii, was called to order by
KipuKai Kuali`i, Chair, at the Council Chambers, 4396 Rice Street, Suite 201, Lihu`e,
Kauai, on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 at 8.31 a.m., after which the following Members
answered the call of the roll•
Honorable Mason K Chock
Honorable Felicia Cowden
Honorable Luke A. Evslin
Honorable Ross Kagawa
Honorable KipuKai Kuali`i
Honorable Arryl Kaneshiro, Ex-Officio Member
Excused Honorable Arthur Brun*, Ex-Officio Member
Committee Chair Kuali`i. Members, as I mentioned two (2) weeks ago,
we will continue working on this Bill, introduce any amendments, and it is my
intention to defer after today's discussion Clerk, can you please read the item on the
agenda
The Committee proceeded on its agenda item as follows.
Bill No 2774, Draft 2 A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING CHAPTER
7A, KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED,
RELATING TO THE HOUSING POLICY FOR THE
COUNTY OF KAUAI (This item was amended to
Bill No. 2774, Draft 3, and Deferred to the 1st
Committee Meeting in September 2020.)
Councilmember Kagawa moved for approval of Bill No 2774, Draft 2, seconded
by Councilmember Cowden
Committee Chair Kuali`i• Thank you I should have done that first
before I started talking.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one registered to provide testimony via remote technology, the
meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows•
Committee Chair Kuali`i• We will open the floor for amendments I
know that Councilmember Kagawa wants to introduce an amendment that our
Housing Director has worked on.
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 2 JULY 22, 2020
Councilmember Kagawa moved to amend Bill No 2774, Draft 2, as circulated,
and as shown in the Floor Amendment which is attached hereto as
Attachment 1, seconded by Councilmember Cowden.
Committee Chair Kuali`i• Thank you Is the Housing Director present?
As you may remember, the Housing Director was working on the amendment
regarding the resort development and the fifty percent (50%) workforce housing
assessment He was also working on another piece to implement a minimum so that
when you are using the formula to reduce the fifty percent (50%), we will not go lower
than thirty-five percent (35%) I believe it was briefly talked about but the Housing
Director was trying to figure out the best wording and where to put it in. That is one
(1) part of the amendment
The other part of the amendment is a bigger piece As we were developing the
exemptions for the special design districts and the R-10 or greater density, instead of
assuming that the developments would happen at the lower than the one hundred
twenty percent (120%) affordable housing rate level, at the last meeting, we put a cap
on the price level maximum, which was at the one hundred twenty percent (120%)
level After thinking about that further, we were calling it a "partial exemption," but
in reality it is a different assessment. It will no longer be the thirty percent (30%)
assessment that applies across the policy This is a special assessment for the
particular areas that are identified with the one hundred twenty percent (120%)Area
Median Income (AMI) level The other part of this exemption is rewording that,
taking it out of the area that was listed as exemptions, and giving it its own section
for special assessment.
I hope I got that right? If not, the Housing Director is able to help and clarify
any questions Are there any questions? Councilmember Chock
Councilmember Chock. Thank you I appreciate the continued work
that you folks are putting your efforts towards We received testimony today which
include the following Building Industry Association (BIA) who are against the
amendment, the Kaua`i Board of Realtors I believe is requesting to meet with
stakeholders is that confirmed on our side to.
Committee Chair Kuali`i• Yes, the Kaua`i Board of Realtors has helped
to identify ten (10) to fifteen (15) stakeholders which will be part of a team's meeting
next Tuesday It is my hope to provide an update of everything current regarding
this Bill and include everything that is passed today I will be sending the
stakeholders an E-mail later today or first thing tomorrow I believe the BIA letters
did not address the exemptions nor the one hundred twenty percent (120%)AMI price
level
Councilmember Chock Okay I was thinking that they would be able
to be a part of the stakeholder group
Committee Chair Kuali`i. Yes, I would be happy to invite and send them
the same information that I will be sending out later today or tomorrow morning
Councilmember Cowden.
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 3 JULY 22, 2020
Councilmember Cowden. I have asked if we are able to structure it like
a workshop It would be really valuable if Councilmembers are able to attend When
you are referring to the stakeholder group, would that include Council Chair
Kaneshiro and yourself, is that correct
Committee Chair Kuali`i That is correct.
Councilmember Cowden. I would like to be able to have access to that
direct information and the conversation When I had the conversation last week with
one of the developers, it seemed as if quality information came out that would be
difficult to share in five (5) or six (6) minutes. There is a lot of value in having a
robust conversation with everyone together
Committee Chair Kuali`i• Okay
Councilmember Cowden. Is that possible?
Committee Chair Kuali`i It is always possible. Besides the meetings
that we are having with the stakeholders, are the Members interested in having an
additional workshop?
Councilmember Chock I appreciate the work that you folks are doing
now in terms of getting baseline with the stakeholders We can have an expanded
briefing once we move towards combining all of the different ideas and/or
perspectives It would be good to bring everyone together I like the idea of us vetting
ahead of time to see where we are able to find common ground Out of the testimony
received, are we able to identify one (1) stakeholder that is going to say, "Yes, this a
sweet spot " If so, we will know moving forward that when passing a bill like this, we
will have some sort of outcome in terms of building I believe it requires more vetting
and I would be open to a workshop Thank you.
Committee Chair Kualh`i It is obvious that the continual vetting will be
happening in our meetings. It is my hope that as you receive input from a
Councilmember, individual, or stakeholder, if it brings a potential amendment that
you would like to introduce, please talk to our Housing Director who is taking the
lead on this Aside from the work we have been doing, are there Members interested
in a workshop?
Councilmember Kagawa. Yes.
Committee Chair Kualh`i. Okay, it looks like you folks are interested
We will schedule a workshop, I will talk to the Staff about it, and we will likely
schedule the workshop for our Council Meeting on Wednesday If we are able to
identify the agenda—if time permits, we can schedule the workshop in the afternoon
and in the next two (2) weeks
Council Chair Kaneshiro. For me, I want to be clear on what the end
result of the workshop is going to be. At workshops in the past, we had over one
hundred (100) suggestions, no resolution, and no one is happy. You are not able to
accommodate every suggestion I want it to be clear to us that if we do a workshop
regarding this Bill, it is to provide information on what we are trying to accomplish,
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 4 JULY 22, 2020
what we want to leave in, and to provide suggestions and improvement At the end,
someone is going to have to tie it all together. If we are having a workshop to have a
workshop, where everyone is throwing noodles on the wall to see what sticks, we are
going to run into the same challenges as we did in the past. Being that we are not
able to please everyone, nothing is ever done, and I do not want us to get to that point
again In this workshop, I would like for us to be able to narrow the gap and present
the final result of the Bill That is my comment on a workshop
Committee Chair Kuali`i• I am happy to share the letter that I am
e-mailing to the stakeholders This letter will highlight everything Council Chair
Kaneshiro is talking about regarding the big issues that are in the Bill Provided in
the letter will be feedback that is strong on one end or the other I am hoping that
people will focus on what is in the actual Bill, what is able to be changed or removed,
and feedback on how we are able to improve the Bill Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa• I am receiving a lot of questions regarding the
Housing Bill and what we are trying to do, so I would like to paint a picture on my
perspective and what we are trying to accomplish For example, if you have five (5)
acre parcel and the developer tells you that they are able to do twenty (20) units at
an average cost of five hundred thousand dollars ($500,000)...if I am able to make a
profit, it will be worth it for me With that five (5) acre parcel, it will be ten million
dollars ($10,000,000), I am able to make a profit, move forward, and comply with the
Housing Policy In our policy we say that twenty-five percent (25%) needs to hit
eighty (80) and below. Figuratively speaking, you have five (5) units at eighty (80)
and below, costs two hundred fifty thousand dollars ($250,000), for a three-bedroom
single-family home. You now have the other seventy-five percent (75%) or the other
fifteen (15) units will have to subsidize that cost reduction from five hundred
thousand (500,000) to two hundred fifty thousand (250,000), which we are saying that
is going to hit the people in need Instead of each unit being five hundred thousand
dollars ($500,000), it will be five hundred eighty-three thousand dollars ($583,000),
which is almost one hundred thousand dollars ($100,000) more If it is compared to
Hanamd'ulu where the majority are local families, how is that fair? These local
families who do not hit the eighty percent (80%) and below, they will have to purchase
the home at almost one hundred thousand dollars ($100,000) higher in order to
subsidize the twenty-five percent (25%) One could say that is how it is and that is
affordable housing we are trying to help the needy. We also must help the
middle-class Our middle-class cannot keep subsidizing.. they are the ones that pay
taxes and they are the ones that pay full college tuitions. They deserve a fair price
too Their fair price is five hundred thousand dollars ($500,000), which is high in
today's world. That is what the units at the Hanamd'ulu project went for, and it was
all sold to mostly local families If I drive around there, ninety-five percent (95%) are
local families that were born and raised here for many generations That is the
dilemma that we have We have people writing testimony into the newspaper, we
have Op-Eds that are saying, "It is so easy, help out the eighty percent (80%) and
below," but how are you going to help them? Are you going to penalize your
middle-class? Is that fair? How hard are we going to hit the middle-class? This is
not a "slam dunk" and "cut and dry" proposal. Developers will not develop if they are
going to break even or take a loss The County, due to COVID-19, we are in no
position to be developing a lot of lots that will be satisfying the demand on Kauai
Adam, please correct me if I am wrong That is the general analysis that I come up
with. This is not so "cut and dry" where we can help the needy and make the
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 5 JULY 22, 2020
mainland investors pay for it. If you look at the Hanamd'ulu project, that is not what
is happening The local families are buying homes and need homes That is what we
call inventory Some people do not like that term I like that term Supply and
demand, it is basic economics My term on the Council is almost done. I appreciate
the work that the Housing Agency is doing. With our current Housing Policy, we
have not had much movement. We have a lot of complaints from the developers In
the end, they may still complain We still have to take care of what the County of
Kaua`i and what our lawmakers feel is going to satisfy our needy. We have to help
some of our needy, but, at what cost to the middle-class? Thank you, Chair.
Committee Chair Kuali`i. Councilmember Chock, followed by
Councilmember Cowden
Councilmember Chock. I just wanted to reiterate what I heard from
the Council Chair I would agree I think having...doing the work, like I said, ahead
of time and maybe it be even more informational of a session, then we can fine-tune
things if we need to at the very end with a workshop It is so complex Even some of
the history, I think there is a lack of understanding about the history of this
Ordinance and how it has affected us That way people will understand what we
culminate with when we come forward with this Bill Those are just my thoughts
Committee Chair Kuali`i. Thank you I appreciate that
Councilmember Cowden
Councilmember Cowden• I have no problem with the narrowing before
doing the workshop It is just important to me that we all are hearing the same kind
of strong concerns One that I heard recently was from a developer that already has
permits...when we change this program, how does he adapt to deal with that He
could possibly go with what the guidelines were before I think that one hundred
twenty percent (120%) across-the-board was something that was a little bit more
palatable than before, but that requires a complete re-permitting of the project I
think just being able to think about that and to put a few of the comments that I have
heard...one is from the younger community. They really have resistance to this
fifty (50) year or permanent affordability clause They cannot build any kind of
equity. Someone does not want to move into a house when they are twenty-five (25)
years old and stay there until they are seventy-five (75) years old It almost puts
them in that position There have been constraints from that community talking
about this proposal. There are also concerns about deed restrictions being so heavy
that it is hard to find the market once you build it or to be able to get funding for the
building of the property. If the project has too many deed restrictions, there is not
going to be an investor willing to help that development For the lowest end of
housing, there has been a lot of interest to do social enterprise structure, and I see
that nowhere in this Housing Policy. I wonder if we could look at creating that in
there.. social enterprise If people do not know, that is where people that have less
than strong individual capacity live together. It is tied to a work possibility It is
better than therapeutic housing, but it is empowering housing where they could get
that support I think we are overlooking that My understanding is that our Housing
Policy cannot affect the Department of Hawaiian Home Lands (DHHL)7 Is that
correct? DHHL is feeling left out some of the homeowners' associations
Committee Chair Kuali`i• Left out9
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 6 JULY 22, 2020
Councilmember Cowden Well, their issues are not addressed well
enough I am just hearing that comment coming at me.
Committee Chair Kuali`i: Adam, can you tell us about how our Housing
Agency might do any work with DHHL?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended
ADAM P ROVERSI, Housing Director With regard to DHHL, the
existing Housing Policy is more or less silent on DHHL, as Councilmember Cowden
mentioned. Our interpretation is that...let me back up. The Housing Policy is
designed to generate workforce housing by imposing a workforce housing assessment
on various developers Our understanding or reading of the Policy is that DHHL, to
the extent that DHHL is a developer, is exempt from the Housing Policy, because
they are exempt from the zoning and building requirements that would trigger the
imposition of a workforce housing assessment on a regular developer That only
speaks to whether the Housing Policy applies to DHHL lands, which our
interpretation is that it does not The Housing Policy is only one small aspect of what
the Housing Agency does There are numerous other ways that we could partner
with and work with DHHL Those do not necessarily have to be included in the
Housing Policy
Committee Chair Kuali`i- Would you not also say that in essence, the
type of homes that DHHL builds and the pricing levels that they build at, with United
States Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) AMI levels, that it is
all affordable housing?
Mr Roversi• Generally, yes There is a State law, for
example, that is one way that DHHL projects interacts with the Housing Policy.
There is a State law that requires the Housing Agency to give DHHL housing credits
when or if they develop affordable workforce housing on DHHL lands They can then
turnaround and sell that to a private developer to offset the workforce housing
requirement that would be imposed on that project That is one concrete way that
the Housing Policy interacts with DHHL That is a product of a State law
requirement For example, if DHHL were to develop twenty (20) workforce housing
price point properties in Anahola, they could apply to the Housing Agency for
workforce housing credits based on a formula that is in the existing Policy Then, if
say, Alexander & Baldwin, Inc (A&B) was doing a development on the South Shore
and we were going to require A&B to build ten (10) workforce housing units, A&B
could either build those workforce housing units, or they could pay DHHL for some
of their credits that they have been granted when they developed their Anahola
project. This whole process is designed to assist DHHL with funding by allowing
them to sell their housing credits, when and if they develop housing
Committee Chair Kuah`i• The only other thing that I would say is that
what is coming...we have seen some of the homestead associations are at a place now
where they have grown their capacity and they are going after grants and doing
economic development projects themselves, and they are looking to do affordable
housing projects I think this is spurred on by the Governor's...like our Kealaula
project, when that came forward, where the Governor was putting the money and the
effort towards projects like that I know the Homestead Development Corporation
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 7 JULY 22, 2020
from Anahola was going to try and do similar types of projects As DHHL starts
recognizing that not only are there individuals for residential, agricultural, and
pastoral lots, there is a fourth category being mercantile and business that comes in
to play Homestead associations are organizing themselves to develop projects and
be landlords as well These are fully affordable projects, of course The land is their
leverage in many ways They do not have the high price of the land There are
probably ways for us to work with them, not requiring any kind of law, but through
the Housing Agency and some of' the different outreach programs and funding
programs that you do Did you have a follow-up question? When you said low-end
and therapeutic, can you define low-end and ask a question9
Councilmember Cowden. When I look at the high-need communities, I
tend to have a strong focus on the people without housing Many of them, most likely,
would qualify for DHHL lands It seems when we have that land that is out there
and available, and there is a desire, and when I look at the population that is at the
highest risk, I would say at least half of the ones I am interfacing with would be
appropriate for placement on those properties. I think the County, if we look
aggressively for ways to partner with DHHL lands, even if that is somehow assisting
with infrastructure that allows for wastewater or whatever else we can do when we
are looking at what the building association says is five thousand (5,000) houses in
the next ten (10) years, some of those houses could end up on DHHL lands for that
population that is most displaced and we would be hitting our target We need to
help them and helping them on land that is already set aside appropriately I would
like to see our housing conversation to bring us in that direction I am understanding
that it may not be related to this particular Bill, but I would like to keep that front
and center That would reduce a lot of demand from our strongest and highest need
group
Committee Chair Kuah`i Council Chair Kaneshiro
Council Chair Kaneshiro• Adam, I know it has been brought up before
about the below eighty percent (80%) concept. I know you have mentioned it as well
Can you reiterate the different types of programs that the Housing Agency works
with and the purpose of this affordable housing policy? From my understanding, this
affordable housing policy is specific to the eighty percent (80%) to one hundred twenty
percent (120%) or one hundred forty percent (140%), depending on what we change.
If we start talking about trying to satisfy those below eighty percent (80%)AMI, then
that is a completely different program than what we are talking bout. We are not
going to be able to try and fit that into this policy that we are working on, because
this policy that we are working on is specific for this gap group of eighty percent (80%)
to one hundred twenty percent (120%) or one hundred forty (140%), depending on
which threshold we use Adam, could you reiterate that again?
Mr Rovers]: Sure We have two (2) broad programs
that are designed to help people that are on the low end of the economic spectrum.
On one hand, we administer close to eight million dollars ($8,000,000) in rental
assistance every year through our Section 8 Housing Choice Voucher Program to
assist people in paying rent, who are specifically in that income group, that very low
income group with assistance in paying rent in existing housing units. Separate from
the Rental Assistance Program, our Development Division actively partners with
nonprofits and for-profit housing agencies using available Federal funding We get
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 8 JULY 22, 2020
an approximately three million dollars ($3,000,000) allocation in Federal funding
under a formula every three (3) years We pair that money with the Development
Fund that is provided by the County Council, along with Federal tax credit programs
to develop housing that is specifically geared towards the low-income group. The
income-based requirement that is imposed on us by the use of Federal funds that we
rely on can be seen in examples of these projects that are under construction or
nearing completion right now include Koa`e development in Koloa, which is a one
hundred and thirty-five (135) one- to three-bedroom units, the Waimea Huaka`i
project in Waimea, the Pua Loke Affordable Housing project in Lihu`e, which just
broke ground about two (2) weeks ago that would be approximately fifty (50) or so
units; and several others that have been in existence for a long time These include
Kalepa Village here in Lihu`e, the Pa'anau Village housing in Koloa, and Kolopua in
Princeville near the fire station All of those projects are direct County-developed or
County-funded projects that were built in partnership with private developers relying
on these Federal grant programs and tax credits All of those developments are
specifically geared for people with very low incomes and the low end of the spectrum.
Generally, it is for those below sixty percent (60%) AMI, but sometimes below eighty
percent (80%) AMI Separate from all of that work, the Housing Policy is designed to
serve the people that make too much money to qualify for those low-income projects,
but do not make enough money to compete in the market as it is developed in the
market. Certainly, if we had more funding, we could do more very low-income
projects We are doing the best we can with the resources that we have available
Council Chair Kaneshiro• Thank you for that clarification
Committee Chair Kuali`i Councilmember Chock
Councilmember Chock• Thank you Just a question about the current
amendment on the floor I was asking for some clarity I think I get the gist of most
of the amendment, but I was wondering, Adam, if you could talk a little bit more
about the fifty percent (50%) workforce housing requirement and the variance
between thirty-five percent (35%) and fifty percent (50%), and how we intend to run
through the independent analysis I am not quite clear as to how that income
threshold is determined to reach a specific percentage
Mr. Roversi. Sure The existing Housing Policy, not the
amended version that you have before you, but the existing Housing Policy, proposes
the method of imposing a workforce housing assessment on resort properties is purely
through an independent assessment of every project. If a developer wants to do a
resort project under the current Housing Policy, they are required to hire an
economist and do a study of their specific project to come up with their own
independent analysis of the number of workforce units that will be required related
to the type of development that they are doing They then have to come to the
Housing Agency for preliminary approval of that analysis and then eventually they
have to go to the County Council and the Council review and approve their analysis
and we develop an individualized workforce housing assessment for every resort
development
Councilmember Chock• Okay
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 9 JULY 22, 2020
Mr. Rovers'. One of the recommendations in the Nexus
Analysis that we commissioned, was having an individualized ad hoc analysis for
every resort development It is unwieldy and too much of an unknown for a developer
They need to know and doing an analysis of a project and be able to predict what the
workforce housing imposition is on their project is important for them to know
whether the numbers are going to pencil out. The Nexus Report recommended that
we eliminate the project-specific analysis and pick a number, like we do for
residential developments It is somewhat difficult to pick a number, because there is
a wide array of the types of resort projects that all drive different levels of workforce
housing demand and the need for the numbers of workers They all have different
financial abilities to absorb the subsidy that we would be required to impose on them.
The Nexus Report contains an economic review of types of resort developments and
an assessment of how many workforce units as a practical matter are required as
employees in these types of developments It was a range of up to one hundred
percent (100%) down to a low of thirty-five percent (35%) That means in a very
high.. and this is if we have to go back to the report for its details...I am
paraphrasing In a very high-end resort, one hundred (100) units are going to
generate a need for one hundred (100) employees to work there and thus that is one
hundred (100) workforce housing units On the lower end of the resort community,
possibly a motel or less luxurious project might generate as low as thirty-five
percent (35%) to fifty percent (50%) So in trying to pick a number, the initial fifty
percent (50%) recommendation from the Housing Agency, was at the low-end of the
scale that the Nexus Analysis had presented That was the initial proposal Fifty
percent (50%) would eliminate the ad hoc analysis and just pick a number. I guess
in realizing that was going to be challenged by the resort development community,
the decision was made to provide at least the option of continuing with the
independent economic analysis so you could have variability depending on the types
of projects and the low-end projects could conceivably come up with an economic
analysis demonstrating that they are not creating their workforce housing need as
high as fifty percent (50%) The idea of putting individualized now is back in as an
option, as that came up at Council. We brought up the thirty-five percent (35%), for
background Where does the thirty-five (35%) come from9 This amount is essentially
the bottom-end of the scale of what is proposed in the Nexus Analysis. The reason
that we recommended thirty-five percent (35%) floor for an assessment is to avoid
what I view as unfortunate abnormalities in some of the individualized assessments
that have been presented and approved in the past. The one that I used as an
example was the Coco Palms Resort in Wailua, which obviously has never been re-
built. They did, under Ordinance No. 860, one of those individualized site-specific
analyses for their project The economist that they hired came up with a range that
the Coco Palms Resort would generate a need for workforce housing units between
zero (0) and my recollection is twenty-five (25) The notion that a three hundred fifty
plus- (350+) room hotel would generate a need for zero (0) workforce housing units
just strikes me as absurd, that that could come out of an independent economic
analysis That was the impetus for requesting at least a floor in there If we are
going to provide the opportunity for people to choose between the fifty percent (50%)
number or alternatively we are going to do our own analysis, we did not want analyses
coming back to us telling us that a three hundred fifty (350) unit hotel will generate
zero (0) need for employee housing
Councilmember Chock Thank you Under your analogy, I realize the
Nexus Study's cap is fifty percent (50%), but in your analogy, really, it could be higher
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 10 JULY 22, 2020
than that, depending on the type of resort that is built Why would we not move in
the opposite direction as well to provide that variance? Is there specific reasoning to
where the fifty percent (50%) is? Again, I am just referencing the thought that if you
require one hundred (100) workers, then should it not be one hundred
percent (100%)7 Would that not limit the type of resort that we would see on the
island if we moved it in the opposite direction as well
Mr Rovers'• Do you mean if we made the number higher
than fifty percent (50%)9
Councilmember Chock. Maybe the variance was seventy-five
percent (75%) to thirty-five percent (35%). I do not know I am just throwing it out
there as to the reasons why we would stop at one end
Mr. Rovers'. If we think of this as a practical matter, if we
were to provide two (2) options to a resort developer, either you can provide
seventy-five percent (75%) of workforce housing units, or you can do an independent
analysis. Every one of them will do an independent analysis Having two (2) options
will become relatively meaningless would be my presumption Backing up we
recommended the fifty percent (50%) number because it was low enough on the range
in the Nexus Report to encompass the vast majority of developments. It would not
unnecessarily burden the low-end projects, and it would be, fiscally and politically
more palatable to the development community instead of telling them eighty
percent (80%), ninety percent (90%), or even seventy-five percent (75%)
Committee Chair Kuali`i Councilmember Evslin
Councilmember Evslin Thank you, Adam Is there a mechanism for
the County to reject an independent assessment, like you just mentioned for Coco
Palms? Say it comes back and the County says this is not realistic...go back and do
it again?
Mr Rovers'. Yes Under both the current Ordinance and
the amended language that is presented to you, the individualized assessment
ultimately needs to be approved both by the Housing Agency and by the County
Council In the Coco Palms example, the Council accepted the very low and the
Housing Agency also accepted that number as well, probably because that place had
become an eyesore and was undeveloped for so long, the County was desperate to
have it developed and was willing to forego a workforce housing element alongside
the proposed development, which we all know still has not happened
Councilmember Evslin For previous economic assessments, do you
have some kind of ballpark figure as to where they were coming out? I know you
mentioned the Nexus Analysis showing seventy-five percent (75%) Is there a
possibility that if it passes with this language, that everybody is going to do their own
assessments that is going to come out really low and just end up with thirty-five
percent (35%) as their lowest?
Mr Rovers'• That is certainly possible I would have to dig
through our files, but in my preliminary review of what we had in our records was
that Coco Palms was effectively the only entity that has gone through this
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 11 JULY 22, 2020
individualized assessment process since Ordinance No 860 in its current form was
developed. I do not have a library of other assessments that I could show you and we
could all review together It is certainly possible that under the proposed
amendment, any project will end up at thirty-five percent (35%) or very close to it
based on their independent economic analysis Provided as well that the Council is
going to approve it
Councilmember Evslin• Given that the Nexus Analysis shows that the
need was likely going to be higher, is the thirty-five percent (35%) the legal maximum
that we could put in there as the floor?
Mr Rovers'. I would direct you to Matt for that discussion
Councilmember Evslin• Matt, any chance that you are there? We can
move on to other questions and come back to Matt when he is ready.
Committee Chair Kual'`' Let us see if he is trying to talk to us I am
happy to give him more time though Let us move forward with Council Chair
Kaneshiro
Council Chair Kanesh'ro• I was just going to say that if Matt is not
available right now, we can always send the question to him and have him respond
in writing.
Committee Chair Kual'`'. We can do that. Do you have anything
further, Councilmember Evslin9
Councilmember Evslin• That is all Thank you very much,
Councilmember Kual'`'
Committee Chair Kualh`' Any other questions? Councilmember
Cowden
Councilmember Cowden I know that I asked this before, but AMI is
determined by HUD9 Do we have a little knowledge of whether that includes the full
end of all the income from lowest to highest? Do you know, Director Roversi7
Mr. Rovers'. I am not exactly sure what you are asking
HUD annually publishes AMI for every county in the United States The specific
numbers that they issue with regard to Hawa'`' are for thirty percent (30%)...first
they announce just what the AMI is each year, then they establish a thirty
percent (30%), fifty percent (50%), and eighty percent (80%) number based on their
AMI. Using that data that is provided by HUD, we generate the chart of sales prices
that is posted annually on the Housing Agency's website Those sales prices are based
on calculations that are contained within the Housing Policy Broadly speaking, my
understanding is that they were generated to reflect banking practices and the way
loans are issued for various incomes That is how the sales prices are arrived at We
have a spreadsheet that we plug in the numbers, the parameters are described in the
Housing Policy, and we plug the HUD-generated income numbers into it and it tells
us what the sales prices are
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 12 JULY 22, 2020
Councilmember Cowden Okay The reason I am asking is that I just
have an intuitive sense that AMI...I have a hard time trusting that that is an
appropriate number or that that might move a lot. I know on the North Shore, where
I live, we are almost an inversed bell curve economically We have the uber rich and
those who are really struggling We do not have as much of the middle-class I am
wondering if the AMI is that set for Kaua'i or is that an average for all of our state?
Mr. Rovers". No, it is Kaua'i specific.
Councilmember Cowden It is Kaua`"specific and it would be an average
for the entire island?
Mr Rovers"- Well, median is slightly different than an
average.
Councilmember Cowden. The median
Mr Rovers" Yes, it is for the entire island
Councilmember Cowden. When we have these people who are
exceptionally wealthy that live here as their permanent residence, does that go into
our median calculation'?
Mr Rovers" I believe all permanent residents are added
into the median calculation. If someone owns a vacation home here, I do not think
they would be considered a resident
Councilmember Cowden- Right
Mr. Roversi• On the HUD website, there is a very detailed
three- to four- page summary of exactly how they arrive at these calculations You
almost need a Master's degree in mathematics and statistics to understand exactly
how they are doing it I cannot begin to describe to you the exact details on how HUD
arrives at their numbers.
Councilmember Cowden Okay Is AMI the only point that we can be
putting into our formula? As I look at strong wealth moving permanently here as has
been the case in my community, and if we have more coming, if that does not
disproportionately move it, it would work better for the developer to bring up that
price It might not work so well for the employed person I am just wanting to make
sure that when we do all of this design of how we are going to be funding things, that
we are able to really have an appropriate figure to be balancing it against I just have
a little concern with that. Who knows how the economy is going to shift in the next
couple of years
Committee Chair Kuall'i. Adam, would you not say that based on that,
in many ways, because we work with Federal funds for the lower end, thirty
percent (30%), the fifty percent (50%), et cetera, it is required by HUD for us to follow
those numbers? Then if we are following those numbers for that population and we
switch to a different number for the gap group that is just above that, then it would
not align fairly in our community? That might be oversimplifying it
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 13 JULY 22, 2020
Mr. Roversi: To a certain extent you are exactly right. For
all of the programs that we operate, except for the workforce housing
assessment.. whether it is the Rental Assistance Program or it is based on the
Federal grant funding that we utilize to build the Pua Loke Housing Project, we are
required by HUD to adhere to the guidelines that they have established As a
practical matter, because the workforce housing assessment is not connected to
Federal requirements, Council could elect to do whatever it wants It would create a
completely different set of guidelines as compared to all of the other programs that
we operate under.
Committee Chair Kuali`i. Is there a way to and do we appeal to HUD
and say we think the numbers are still too high? We know you are trying to adjust
for our particular community, but is there anyway to ask them to relook at those
numbers prior to them sending it out each year?
Mr Roversi In some cases, yes We cannot really change
what our AMI is because that is a mathematically reality. For example, in our Rental
Assistance Program, and this is not necessarily relevant to the sales price of the
house, but in our Rental Assistance Program, HUD sets the reimbursable rents that
we are allowed to pay for low-income individuals in houses They do not necessarily
do that by actually coming to Kaua`i and looking at rents They make some
mathematical assumptions and come up with the numbers The numbers that they
had been providing to us were far lower than the actual market rents on Kauai. We
were having a hard...the people receiving our rental vouchers were having a hard
time, even with rental assistance, being able to afford rentals We appealed to HUD
to do an actual market study of rents on Kaua`i, which resulted in them raising what
are called the fair market rent caps for our Voucher Assistance Program So now, by
considering our appeal effectively, they have increased the amount of rental
assistance that we can provide to all of our clients So a long-winded answer, but yes,
there are limited ways to appeal to HUD, but not for the AMI numbers
Committee Chair Kuah`i Thank you So members, while we have the
rules suspended, any further questions of our Housing Director? Councilmember
Evslin.
Councilmember Evslin. Thank you One quick question on AMI With
thirty percent (30%) unemployment or whatever we are facing, does AMI only include
those who have an income? Or does it also include unemployment? Is there an
expectation that those numbers could collapse over the coming years? Anything we
pass...maybe we make all development totally infeasible because the numbers
become so low because of the collapsing economy
Mr. Roversi. The HUD analysis has I believe a year and a
half or two-year lag You are exactly right If we had an economic collapse on Kaua`i
and incomes were rapidly falling, the HUD AMI number would go down and that
would be reflected in changes in sales prices What I am telling you today, a
three-bedroom eighty percent (80%) AMI house would also drop alongside the
reduction in AMI. So it would lag reality by at least a year, but it could affect the
policy, yes
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 14 JULY 22, 2020
Councilmember Evslin• Do you know if the unemployed are included
in that number, or does it .
Mr Roversi I believe unemployed residents are calculated
into that, but I would have to confirm.
Committee Chair Kuali`i Any last questions9
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order and proceeded
as follows-
Committee Chair Kuali`i Okay, seeing no further questions, I will call
the meeting back to order We will take final comments on the amendment
Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden. We had taken an amendment in here which
says, "Any affordable or workforce housing development developed by or for the
county either by itself or in partnership with another housing development
organization " We have not really discussed that. I am fine with that. That is where
we are being explicit that for this exemption, we do not create a workforce
requirement for workforce housing because it is already one hundred percent (100%)
This is basically saying whether it is a partner or not, it is all considered essentially
workforce housing. Right? Do I have that correct? This is what is included in
Councilmember Kagawa's amendment
There being no objections, the rules were suspended
Mr Roversi• That is correct, Councilmember Cowden For
context, the language regarding an exemption of county, or partnership housing
development is in the current Ordinance. So what is in the amendment is nothing
new It is just being taken from one location in the current Bill and organizationally
being placed in a different section of the Bill
Councilmember Cowden Okay
Mr Roversi It is not changing anything substantive. It is
just moving where the language is The reason it says, "county or partnership" is
because the County typically partners with nonprofit or for-profit developers to build
the housing for County projects We do not act as developers ourselves For example,
the Pua Loke housing project that just broke ground, the County owns the land and
has entered into a long-term ground lease with the Ahe Group who is going to build
and own the vertical apartment buildings for a period of the ground lease Their
ownership has all the requirements imposed on them of meeting various affordability
requirements and so forth, that are established in our funding agreement and in the
ground lease. The partnership between a private company and the County, but it is
sufficiently constrained that it should be exempt from an additional workforce
housing requirement
Councilmember Cowden Thank you I just wanted to point out for the
record and for anyone listening that we are pulling that from a lower area up and just
clarifying the change That is what we are voting on
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 15 JULY 22, 2020
Committee Chair Kuah`i While the rules are still suspended, does
anyone have any further clarifying questions or actual questions, rather than
comments? Okay.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order and proceeded
as follows
Committee Chair Kuali`i• We will try this again Does anyone have final
comments before we votes Anyone9 Councilmember Evshn
Councilmember Evshn I just wanted to say thank you to the
introducers. I appreciate the process of moving slow and I did want to comment on
the workshop I do support the idea of a workshop though as Council Chair Kaneshiro
said, I do hope the workshop is results-oriented I would also like to see historic
numbers of how the current ordinance makes development infeasible and some of the
difficulties in getting financing. My hope is that we can continue moving forward and
get it done with one workshop or two at the very most I think it is possible that we
get lost in workshops I do not think we are going to make everyone happy here I
support the idea of continuing to move forward I appreciate the introducers moving
slow and getting a lot of input
Committee Chair Kuah`i Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock• Just a process question
Committee Chair Kuali`i• I wanted to focus on the amendment right
now We will vote on the amendment and after that we will talk more about process
as far as scheduling the workshop and things like that
Councilmember Chock Okay, sure
Committee Chair Kuah`i• Any final discussion on the amendment? If
not, can we take a vote'?
The motion to amend Bill No 2774, Draft 2, as circulated, and as shown in the
Floor Amendment which is attached hereto as Attachment 1, was then put,
and unanimously carried
Committee Chair Kuali`i• The motion carries Before we adjourn and I
ask for a deferral again, any further comments on the plan to have the workshop
next? So the next time we meet, we will be as the Committee in a workshop We are
trying to work that into our August schedule I will ask for a deferral at the end of
this meeting and it will be until the first Committee Meeting in September Any
other suggestions or questions, or anyone wanting to talk about the workshop?
Councilmember Chock. In light of that schedule, it sounds to me as if
what we are wanting to do is have those individual stakeholder meetings from now
until the next time we meet in a workshop setting Do you anticipate any further...I
guess my question is about any additional amendments that might come forward
Are we going to then introduce them at the next Committee Meeting in September
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 16 JULY 22, 2020
Committee Chair Kuali`i Correct After the workshop Perhaps as a
result of the workshop, there will be more amendments
Councilmember Chock Thank you.
Committee Chair Kualfi• Okay, that is the process I will just repeat
myself We are going to schedule with staff a Housing Workshop at some future date
in August. I will ask now for a deferral to the first Committee Meeting in September.
Councilmember Chock moved to defer Bill No 2774, Draft 2 as amended to
Bill No 2774, Draft 3 to the 1st Committee Meeting in September 2020,
seconded by Councilmember Cowden, and unanimously carried
There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 9 37 a m
Respectfully submitted,
KarLyn Sukehira
Council Services Assistant I
APPROVED at the Committee Meeting held on August 5, 2020•
0.4ce...:‘.,06(ictA.61.k.KIKUALI`I
Chair, HIR Committee
*Beginning with the March 11, 2020 Council Meeting and until further notice,
Councilmember Arthur Brun will not be present due to U.S. v. Arthur Brun et al.,
Cr No 20-00024-DKW (United States District Court), and therefore will be noted as
excused (i e , not present)
Attachment 1
(July 22, 2020)
FLOOR AMENDMENT
Bill No 2774, Draft 2, Relating to the County Housing Policy
Introduced by: ROSS KAGAWA, Councilmember
Amend Bill No 2774, Draft 2, as follows.
1. Amend proposed Sec 7A-1 4 2, Exemptions, to read as follows.
"Sec. 7A-1.4.2 Exemptions.
The workforce housing requirements of this Chapter shall not apply to
[the following] any affordable or workforce housing development developed by
or for the County, either by itself or in partnership with another housing
development organization.
[(a) Projects within the following special planning areas and design
districts, developed at or above the maximum density allowed, or in areas
subject to form based codes developed as multi-family projects, in which all
developed units will be priced at or below one hundred twenty percent (120%)
of the Kaua`i median household income
(1) Lihu`e Town Core Urban Design District as defined in
Title IV, Chapter 10, Article 5A.
(2) Koloa Town Walkable Mixed Use District as defined in
Title IV, Chapter 10, Article 6.
(3) Kalaheo Town Walkable Mixed Use District as defined in
Title IV, Chapter 10, Article 6.
(b) Projects outside of Visitor Destination Areas and Special
Management Areas in residential or mixed use zoning districts with a density
of R-10 or greater, consisting of multiple or single family attached dwellings,
developed at or above the maximum density allowed, in which all developed
units will be priced at or below one hundred twenty percent (120%) of the
Kaua`i median household income
(c) Any affordable or workforce housing development developed by or
for the County, either by itself or in partnership with another housing
development organization, is exempt from the requirements of this Chapter
(d) The exemptions in subsection (a) for special planning areas and
design districts and m subsection (b) relating to zoning density shall expire
ten (10) years from the date of their adoption.]"
(Material to be deleted is bracketed New material to be added is underscored All
material is new )
2 Amend Sec. 7A-2 1, General Requirements, as follows.
"Sec. 7A-2.1 General Requirements.
(a) Residential Developments A thirty percent (30%) workforce
housing requirement shall be assessed to any residential project subject to the
Workforce Housing Policy The housing assessment shall be satisfied by
fee-simple sale of workforce housing units at affordable housing prices, which
shall be determined by the Housing Agency pursuant to Article 4 of this
Chapter.
(1) For a residential development consisting of ten (10) to
twenty-five (25) umts, a developer shall be required to satisfy a
workforce housing requirement based on project's total number of
residential units. Workforce housing units shall be sold to households
earning from eighty percent (80%) to [one hundred forty percent (140%)]
one hundred twenty percent (120%) of Kaua`i median household income,
with the average sales price being affordable to households earning one
hundred percent (100%) of Kaua`i median household income
(2) For a residential development consisting of twenty-six (26)
units or more, a developer shall be required to satisfy a workforce
housing requirement based on project's total number of residential
units Workforce housing umts shall be sold to households earning from
eighty percent (80%) to [one hundred forty percent (140%)] one hundred
twenty percent (120%) of Kaua`i median household income, in
accordance with the following income group assessment.
(A) [Twenty percent (20%)] Thirty percent (30%) of total
umts priced to be affordable to households earning up to eighty
percent (80%) of the Kaua`i median household income
(B) [Thirty percent (30%)] Forty percent (40%) of total
units priced to be affordable to households earning up to one
hundred percent (100%) of the Kaua`i median household income.
(C) Thirty percent (30%) of total umts priced to be
affordable to households earning up to one hundred twenty
percent (120%) of the Kaua`i median household income.
[(D) Twenty percent (20%) of total units priced to be
affordable to households earning up to one hundred forty percent
(140%) of the Kaua`i median household income ]
(b) Multi-Family Workforce Housing Special Assessments Projects
in the following special areas may elect to adhere to modified workforce
housing requirements described below-
(1) Projects within the following special planning areas and
design districts, developed at or above the maximum density allowed, or
in areas subiect to form based codes developed as multi-family projects
2
may elect to provide all units at or below 120% of Kaua`i median
household income
(1) Lihu`e Town Core Urban Design District as defined
in Title IV, Chapter 10, Article 5A.
(2) Koloa Town Walkable Mixed Use District as defined
in Title IV, Chapter 10, Article 6
(3) Kalaheo Town Walkable Mixed Use District as
defined in Title IV, Chapter 10, Article 6.
(2) Protects outside of Visitor Destination Areas and Special
Management Areas in residential or mixed use zoning districts with a
density of R-10 or greater, consisting of multiple or single family
attached dwellings, developed at or above the maximum density allowed
may elect to provide all units at or below 120% of Kaua`i median
household income.
(3) The multi-family workforce housing special assessment
provisions in this subsection shall expire ten (10) years from the date of
their adoption
[(b)] Resort Developments For resort projects in visitor
destination areas, for amendments into the visitor destination area, and for
resort district zoning amendments which [will generate a need for new
employees to fill one hundred (100) or more full-time equivalent jobs, or] have
density for more than ten (10) [residential] dwelhng units or twenty (20) hotel
rooms, [a] two workforce assessment methods are available
(1) a fifty percent (50%) workforce housing requirement [shall
be assessed The] in accordance with the income group assessment
provided in Section 7A-2 1(a)(2), or
(2) a workforce housing requirement of at least thirty-five
percent (35%) based upon an independent analysis in accordance with
the income group assessment provided in Section 7A-2.1(a)(2) For the
independent analysis, the number, type, size, income target groups to
benefit, and the sales or rental prices of workforce housing units
required shall be based on an analysis of the number of jobs to be
generated, the availability of workers to fill those jobs, the resultant
number and incomes of workers to be supported by those jobs, the
estimated number of workers requiring housing assistance, and the
amount of housing inventory available to those workers. Such analysis
shall be conducted by an economist retained by, but independent of, the
developer. The analysis shall be subject to approval by the County
Council for all petitions for visitor destination area or zoning district
boundary amendments, or approval by the Housing Agency for
subdivision, zoning, or building permit applications [The]
3
Under either assessment method, the developer shall complete
construction of the required workforce housing units before final building
inspections or certificate of occupancy is issued for any facility or
accommodation of the resort development, except for temporary buildings for
real estate sales offices."
(Material to be deleted is bracketed. New material to be added is underscored.)
V•\AMENDMENTS\2020\2020-335 FA- 2775d2 RK_AMK_mn docx
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