HomeMy WebLinkAbout09/09/2020 Housing & IGR Committee minutes MINUTES
HOUSING & INTERGOVERNMENTAL RELATIONS COMMITTEE
September 9, 2020
A meeting of the Housing & Intergovernmental Relations Committee of the
Council of the County of Kauai, State of Hawai`i, was called to order by
KipuKai Kuali`i, Chair, at the Council Chambers, 4396 Rice Street, Suite 201, Lihu`e,
Kaua`i, on Wednesday, September 9, 2020 at 1.30 p m , after which the following
Members answered the call of the roll
Honorable Mason K Chock
Honorable Felicia Cowden
Honorable Luke A. Evshn (ma remote technology)
Honorable Ross Kagawa (present at 1.41 p.m.)
Honorable KipuKai Kuali`i
Honorable Arryl Kaneshiro, Ex-Officio Member
Excused Honorable Arthur Brun*, Ex-Officio Member
Bill No. 2774, Draft 3 A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
CHAPTER 7A, KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS
AMENDED, RELATING TO THE HOUSING POLICY
FOR THE COUNTY OF KAUAI (This item was
amended to Bill No. 2774, Draft 4, and Deferred.)
Councilmember Chock moved for approval of Bill No. 2774, Draft 3, seconded
by Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Kuali`i. I want to say mahalo nut boa for your
participation in our County Housing Policy Workshop a few weeks ago. Also a big
thank-you to our public stakeholders who participated in the workshop and also who
have been participating along the way I am pretty certain that many of our questions
were answered at that time, but I would like to start today's meeting with any
questions for the Housing Director, so prior to opening the floor to amendments based
on the discussions we have had in the workshop and in those prior meetings, let us
do our questions with the Housing Director It is my hope that we are getting closer
to finalizing and getting the amended bill in shape to pass on to the full Council At
this time, I will suspend the rules and does anyone have any questions for the
Housing Director?
Councilmember Chock I have a question, Committee Chair, for the
Housing Director. I did talk to Adam this past week and it might be helpful to the
public to rehash that conversation and the conversation has been I have been
receiving a lot of testimony about the likelihood of retaining affordability or also
resident preference over time, and I wanted to make sure that it was highlighted and
understood the process that we currently take and how it is done and what we can
and cannot do Adam, if you do not mind restating. Also, in that conversation you
gave some good indication of what is showing up and why the concern of any of these
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 2 SEPTEMBER 9, 2020
potential housing developments moving towards off-island interest is probably
unlikely.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
ADAM P ROVERSI, Housing Director Housing Director Adam Rovers',
for the record. Thank you, Councilmember Chock. I, too, have heard some of the
comments and concerns from folks who are deeply interested in whatever workforce
or affordable housing is developed on Kaua`i made available to Kaua`i residents as
opposed to off-island buyers There are a couple of provisions in the existing housing
policy that lend themselves to support that idea First off, when workforce housing
units are created or generated by the housing policy, the existing housing policy sets
up provisions as to how those units can be priced and marketed, and it is quite
detailed That is the very first step of that process, it is a multi-step process. The
very first step of that process is any workforce housing units that are created need to
be offered to people who are on the County homebuyer list. That is a list of
pre-qualified buyers that is maintained by the Housing Agency So to get onto that
list, as one of the basic qualifications, you need to be a Kauai resident So to get on
the homebuyer's list and to be eligible to purchase or rent a unit that is created under
the Housing Policy, you need to be a resident in the first place As a practical matter,
also to get on that list, you have to take a homebuyer education class, which teaches
you about financing, how to budget, how mortgages operate, and so forth That class
is offered here in Hawai`i, so again, there is some practical requirements to get on the
homebuyer's list Most people are going to be here, so they can take the homebuyers
education class In the marketing requirements that are set out, first we go to the
homebuyer list, there are also provisions set out in the existing Housing Policy that
allow us, which we regularly would do to include preferences—they are not absolute
requirements, but they are preferences for things like employees of the tax map area
where a housing project is developed, so you can provide preferences based on area of
employment, you can provide preferences for existing residents of the tax map area,
you can provide preferences for Kaua`i residents outside of the homebuyer list. The
way that works and the phasing part of the marketing of an affordable unit is that a
developer who is required to build the workforce unit, first they have to offer it to
people on the homebuyer's list After a certain period of time, if no eligible buyers
step forward, then they can step outside the homebuyer's list to income qualified
Kaua`i residents, then after a certain period of time, if they still have not found
buyers, they can step outside of the income qualifications to any Kaua`i residents,
then finally, if they still have not found any eligible buyers, they are free to sell the
unit on the open market. I cannot point to you in practice how that has operated in
too many situations, because it was noted in past discussions, there have been really
no physical workforce housing units that were developed as a requirement of the
current Housing Policy Anecdotally, the D R Horton project in Hanama`ulu was
developed under a related pre-Ordinance No 860 policy and as a practical matter and
it is my understanding that all of those units were—the workforce units at least—
were sold to local residents under the beginning parts of that phasing plan It never
got to a point where they could not find any local buyers and then we opened the
project up to non-residents As a practical matter for that project, at least, my
understanding is that every unit went to a local resident
Councilmember Chock Thank you for the example
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 3 SEPTEMBER 9, 2020
Councilmember Kuali`i Are there any further questions from the
members? Councilmember Evslin.
Councilmember Evshn• Thank you, Chair Kuali`i. Adam, at the
workshop, concerns in terms of financing came up a few times for a fifty (50) year
duration and I have talked to you briefly about it and it sounded like you had talked
to some financial institutions. I am just wondering if you had an update there, if the
fifty (50) years would be a barrier for financing
Mr. Rovers'. We reached out to several local lenders, as
well as the Keyser Marston Associates, Inc (KMA) consultants, who created the
Nexus Report and they connected me with some mainland lenders as well. The basic
story here on Kaua`i is it is an idea that local lenders are not familiar with and I
received a lot of mixed responses I had one lender tell me, "No, we would not do
that " I had others who wanted to see the specific language, they were more
concerned with just the ability to protect the first mortgage if in case there were ever
a foreclosure, and I am confident that the way the documents are written do that, so
that a lender would always be assured of recouping their costs even in a county
buyback situation It was sort of an unknown for our local lenders, because it is not
something that they typically do. On the other hand, when I reached out to the
California lenders, who I was connected with by the folks who put together the Nexus
Report, their unequivocal answer was, "There is no problem whatsoever in finding
financing for forty-five (45) years, for fifty (50) years." In their opinion, any concern
that a lender would have related to fifty (50) years would also be reflected in a
twenty (20) year deed restriction In their opinion, a deed restriction is a deed
restriction, a period of time does not matter, as long as the mortgage holder can be
assured of recouping their money, so they did, locally at least. It was explained to me
that there would perhaps need to be lender education and outreach to be sure people
understood how the program operated and maybe even have specific discussions with
lenders when financing documents are signed or the final language of a deed
restriction is put together, just to be sure that lenders are on board...
(Counctlmember Kagawa was noted as present)
Mr. Rovers'. but there was no categorical bar to the idea
of having a twenty (20) year deed restriction or a thirty (30) year deed restriction or
a fifty (50) year deed restriction
Councilmember Evslin Thank you Given that you reached out to
KMA, did they have any other input on the fifty (50) year restriction or was it just
directing you to lenders?
Mr Rovers' They offered me their own opinion that to
them it was a non-issue, but to sort of buttress their opinion they connected me to a
handful of people, several of whom I have left messages with, only one was I able to
directly communicate with, and that is who most of the information I am providing
to you came from They had zero concern about that, at least in their community
context
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 4 SEPTEMBER 9, 2020
Councilmember Evslin: Thank you. Final question along these lines,
by chance were they able to provide you with information on other places on their
length of deed restrictions? Is fifty (50) years common?
Mr. Roversi. We did not talk about specific locations or
jurisdictions, but the lender who I E-mailed back and forth with said fifty (50) years
and longer was common in their area and they had no problem marketing and
financing those units, that is in the Greater Bay Area, but I do not have a specific city
or town that I can refer you to
Councilmember Evshn• Great Thank you, Adam
Councilmember Kuali`i. Adam, during the workshop we had some
testimony from Stephen Spears of Kaua`i Habitat for Humanity, for them it was the
opposite, right? He had a concern and he said it would limit their ability to get
funding for some of their projects having a longer term
Mr Rovers' Habitat projects, as a practical matter, are
almost all funded through the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA)
Federal loan guarantee program and it is still unclear to me from Stephen's
comments at the workshop I understand that most conventional financing is for a
thirty (30) year loan period and USDA—I actually spoke to the USDA administrator
for Hawai`i—their loans extend up to thirty-eight (38) years in some cases, beyond
the typical thirty (30) year conventional mortgage, but it is unclear to me the sort of
asserted relationship between the loan period and a period of affordability that exist
as a deed restriction, which as a practical matter is just a buyback provision for the
County, that the County may exercise and if it chooses not to then in practice the
affordability requirement is essentially lifted and the house becomes a market rate
house, that if a bank had foreclosed on it could sell it at whatever amount it wanted
So it is not clear to me why a buyback provision is necessarily related to the term of
a mortgage If the mortgage is paid off after thirty (30) years and the affordability
provision lives on, it seems to me that those are apples and oranges. I do not have
anything much more educated to say about Stephen's comments at our workshop
than that
Councilmember Kuah`i Okay, but for me, it would be something I
think I want to follow-up on Are there any further questions? Councilmember
Cowden
Councilmember Cowden First of all, thank you for the roughly hour
that you spent with me helping to address some of the concerns that kind of got
missed in the workshop and just to acknowledge my concerns for some of the ideas in
the outlying areas would be handled in a different place than in this particular
document, so thank you for that My questions right now are relative to
infrastructure and I am thinking most specifically about the Lihu`e area, the Rice
Street area, and this is relative to the one hundred twenty percent (120%) of the
Kaua`i median household income My concern relative to the infrastructure is if it
takes more money to build up that infrastructure it might not be feasible for this one
hundred twenty percent (120%) Who is the responsible party beyond the property
line for water and sewage, is that at the County or the developer? They want to build
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 5 SEPTEMBER 9, 2020
more than we have capacity for in water, who has to upgrade the water' Us or the
developer?
Mr Rovers]: Broadly speaking, satisfying the needs of any
particular development are the responsibility of the developer If they need more
sewer capacity or water capacity for their particular parcel, it is their responsibility
to provide the infrastructure for that That said though, this would maybe be a better
question for the Wastewater Management Division and the Department of Water
Each of those departments maintains their own priority lists of major infrastructure
upgrades depending upon their projected community needs and where they foresee
development is likely to occur in the future. Funded both by their own internal sewer
connection fees, sewer maintenance charges, and Facilities Reserve Charges (FRC),
they are regularly targeting various areas of the island for upgrades that lend
themselves to the benefit of a private developer who would be looking to develop a
particular piece of property. The first simple answer is that it is always the
developer's responsibility to pay for whatever is required to develop their land. The
more complex answer is that the County is constantly working to upgrade various
areas of the island's infrastructure that then assist developers So I guess you could
say, in a very simplistic sense, that some property owners get lucky in that the area
that they own land is a targeted area of infrastructure investment by the Public
Works Department, and others who happen to own property that is not targeted and
prioritized according to those departments internal processes and procedures end up
being more unlucky and are burdened by the absence of infrastructure more than
others But as to how those priority lists are created, you would have to direct those
questions straight to the Department of Water or the Wastewater Management
Division and/or the Planning Department, because I think both the Wastewater
Management Division and the Department of Water also take some of their lead from
the Planning Department and where they have zoned for and projected for
development in the General Plan and various town plans and so forth.
Councilmember Cowden. I try to pay close attention to both those
organizations, particularly the Department of Water. My understanding for the Rice
Street area is there is water capacity, I have heard two hundred fifty-five (255) or two
hundred (200), somewhere in that range depending upon how serious the user is, that
gets built first So when we are doing R-40 or forty (40) units per acre plus an
additional dwelling unit, we have the potential for eighty (80) units per acre along
Rice Street, so those could be four (4) or five (5) story buildings. We have a few empty
lots where that could be built. Maybe that is where it would happen first, but once
that is built out, we would need to bring in more water infrastructure, is that correct
Mr Rovers]: That is my general understanding, but I do
not have any more details about water infrastructure or long-range water plans for
the Lihu'e area than you folks do
Councilmember Cowden. Okay I will just bring up one thing that I am
aware of and that is asbestos concrete piping between sixty (60) and seventy (70)
years old in that area, so it is older piping I just worry that we are going to start to
build then I wonder if that has to get new piping laid down to make it work I called
an asbestos piping union I made a number of calls It is probably cracked by now, if
not now, soon, if there is a lot more pressure in there I asked and they said we could
send the robot camera down the pipe the same way we did with the sewer I asked if
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 6 SEPTEMBER 9, 2020
we could insert a liner the way we did with the sewer line, and they said, "Not really
We could but that is not a good way to deal with it." I am just wondering, if we limit
a developer to one hundred twenty percent (120%), which I like, but if the
infrastructure is insufficient and they have to build that out or help to fund correcting
that challenge, maybe all of this is moot, maybe they could not afford to do any of it
Have you looked at that in any way?
Mr Rovers' No I cannot speak intelligently about the
types of pipes or the water infrastructure or the cost to upgrade water infrastructure
in Lihu`e or really anywhere else, but I can say broadly that the proposal that
originally came out of the Housing Agency was for some narrowly tailored exemptions
within the Lihu`e Town Core area and high density zoning areas and the Housing
Agency still supports that as an exemption as opposed to a special assessment with
price points attached to it So that is related to your question,but not an exact answer
to the cost of water infrastructure improvements, which I cannot answer
Councilmember Cowden. Okay I will just make one more statement
and let it sit. The person who put those pipes in, Val Ako, he passed away this
summer at ninety-four (94)years old, but I went with him to see Kirk Saiki and David
Craddick and he was very concerned about the condition of the pipes I do not have
any reason to believe that they have been addressed, and then having spoken with
Larry Dill, who is on the Board of Water and has been in the past the County
Engineer—is familiar with it I think we need to look at that challenge in there,
because when we are asking for all this build-out right here and we have a limitation
on it, I am concerned that the numbers will be prohibitive. So I think we should take
a look into the capacity of the pipes I spoke with an engineering consultant that
deals with this and was told, "It is basically beyond the normal lifespan of that type
of material. Usually the pipes are laid right next to them; they put in fresh pipes " I
just want you to know that, because I struggle over some of our cost in this area with
that knowledge if we were looking at it as an area of deep amount of growth.
Mr. Rovers'. I would just offer that the specific language in
the Housing Policy is just one small part of a large picture of improving affordable
housing for Kaua`i residents Infrastructure is outside of the Housing Policy, but it
is certainly related. The economic performance of our island and people's income is
all certainly related to people's ability to perform housing, but that too is outside the
Housing Policy. So there is certainly many other things that Council could consider,
think about, and address that would help to answer the greater problem of economic
survivability and affordability on Kauai, but the Housing Policy is designed to
address a narrow aspect of that greater whole
Councilmember Cowden Thank you
Councilmember Kuali`i Are there any further questions from the
members? There are no additional questions, I will call the meeting back to order. It
is my intention that today after we work on a couple amendments to ask for a deferral
again. I am asking for a deferral again, but I am hoping that at our next meeting, we
can work further on any additional amendments and hopefully, final amendments
For today, I will call on Councilmember Chock with our first amendment
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 7 SEPTEMBER 9, 2020
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded
as follows
Councilmember Chock moved to amend Bill No. 2774, Draft 3, as circulated,
and as shown in the Floor Amendment, which is attached hereto as
Attachment 1, seconded by Councilmember Kagawa
Councilmember Chock. Thank you. This amendment addresses the
inclusionary zoning percentage, moving it from thirty percent (30%) to twenty
percent (20%), as we have discussed in the workshop and also supported by the
Administration and the Housing Agency
Councilmember Kuali`i• The first and big amendment basically, the
Workforce Housing requirement being lowered from thirty percent (30%) to twenty
percent (20%) and we have heard from a lot of different sides of the issue, if we are
really trying to do an incentive and thirty percent (30%) has not worked, we should
try to go lower. Are there any questions for our Housing Director on this issue?
Councilmember Cowden. If we move it to twenty percent (20%), there
were two (2) elements that dropped it back previously to fifteen percent (15%). How
would that be impacted? Would it end up going down to five percent (5%)9
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Mr Rovers' Under the current Housing Pohcy my reading
is that if the thirty percent (30%) base assessment were to be reduced to twenty
percent (20%), with no other changes being made, the various incentives could still
be taken advantage of that could possibly reduce the twenty percent (20%) to ten
percent (10%) at the least, if all available incentives were utilized, but it could not go
below ten percent (10%).
Councilmember Kuali`i. Are there any further questions from the
members? Councilmember Evslin
Councilmember Evslin• Thank you, Committee Chair Kuali`i Adam,
within the Visitor Destination Area (VDA), any residential development more than
nine (9) units would be subject to the resort provision, is that right?
Mr Roversi That is my reading of the proposed amended
language, which was previously accepted that describes resort area as essentially,
potential Transient Vacation Rental (TVR) use and every property within the VDA is
a potential TVR So the twenty percent (20%) reduction that Councilmember Chock
is referencing would not affect...I guess you are not really asking that question, but
would not affect any properties within the VDA
Councilmember Evslin. Thank you. That was the follow-up question
to that Thank you
Councilmember Kuali`i Are there any further questions from the
members9 Councilmember Evslin
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 8 SEPTEMBER 9, 2020
Councilmember Evslin Sorry, just one more. I think I know the
answer here, but do you support the amendment?
Mr Roversi: Yes, I do We stated that and discussed it
with the Office of the Mayor and the Administration before floating that at the
workshop a couple of weeks ago
Councilmember Evshn Great, thank you
Councilmember Kuali`i• If there are no further questions for our
Housing Director, I will call the meeting back to order. Is there any final discussion
from the members on the amendment? Councilmember Evslin
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded
as follows
Councilmember Evshn I will not speak while my phone is ringing I
will pass this on
Councilmember Kuah`i• Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden- Councilmember Chock, can you rationalize
this for me This is for anything across the whole island it would go from thirty
percent (30%) to twenty percent (20%) It is hard for me to get excited about that,
because it is going to end up being ten percent (10%)
Councilmember Chock I think the ten percent (10%) is dependent, it
is variable, but to answer your question, the answer is, "Yes " The question that kept
coming up for us at the workshop was the inability for us to generate the kind of
inventory that we need based on the current legislation That was impetus for us
moving in this direction and it seemed like, based on the whole workshop that there
are many variables. This was one of them, but this is one of the biggest ones that I
have heard and one that was accepted widely by all sides as a sticking point, and that
is why I introduced it.
Councilmember Cowden- I felt like .what I have heard, which I know
has quite a big deal of accuracy, is that the 2008 financial crisis, that housing bubble
burst, also had a lot to do with why we did not get more properties built, it was not
just this inclusionary zoning, there were a number of reasons why that did not
happen I am just worried that we are going to get down to ten percent (10%)
anywhere, everywhere When I look at places that have a real problematic piece of
infrastructure, I get that nothing is going to get built, right? Nothing gets built and
it raises the rates of even substandard housing, but this is twenty percent (20%)
everywhere
Councilmember Kuah`i Is there any final discussion from the
members? Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa Thank you I think sometimes we get lost
thinking that reducing to twenty percent (20%) means only one (1) out of five (5)
Kaua`i residents will benefit. The bottom line is if we have no housing built, then we
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 9 SEPTEMBER 9, 2020
have zero percent (0%) If we work with developers and listen to some of the things
that they say are problematic, then do an amendment like this, then at the least we
get twenty percent (20%), but I am hoping that the other eighty percent (80%) will go
to local residents or majority of them will, just as Hanama`ulu did. Then it comes to
the question where you have people that comment in the paper about our affordable
housing problem and they say, "Why is the Council taking twenty percent (20%) or
thirty percent (30%), they should ask for fifty percent (50%) " When you ask for fifty
percent (50%), the other fifty percent (50%) of the market will subsidize that fifty
percent (50%). What if these other fifty percent (50%) are local Kaua`i residents that
just fall out of the affordable group Is it fair that just because they make twenty
thousand dollars ($20,000) more than the other family that they should pay the price
at two hundred thousand dollars ($200,000) more than a family just making twenty
thousand dollars ($20,000) less than them? Are they to help subsidize the families
that do make the cut-line9 We talk about inventory, I think anytime we have
inventory our locals want to buy it, the residents, whether it be middle-class people,
poor, or what have you, but every opportunity in a place like Lihu`e for example, there
are tons of locals that are looking at it, even some that are on O`ahu that want to have
a home to come back to on Kaua`i Local people know how important it is to have real
estate in prime areas, whether it be Lihu`e, north shore, or Kapa`a, it is like hot cakes,
but do they have the money to pay? Having that inventory gives our local people
opportunities to buy. Now if we do not do any amendments, we do not listen and we
have the same old system that we are not trying to amend that is getting nothing
built and we have zero percent (0%) all the way around It is tough You cannot say
only twenty percent (20%)will benefit, because I would like to think that of the eighty
percent (80%) remaining at least half will go to local people as well It is just that
they will not be getting the affordable prices, because they do not fall into that group
that meets the requirement That is where you say, "Is it more important that we
get inventory, we get things built, we work with developers," or is it better to have
the attitude of, "Screw the developers " Let us put unreasonable restrictions on them,
so they do not build anything. That is my take
Councilmember Evslin. Councilmember Kagawa had nailed it, both in
terms of thirty percent (30%) of zero (0) is zero (0), whereas twenty percent (20%) of
something is at least getting some affordable housing out of it with the twenty
percent (20%) Just as importantly, as he said clearly, if those other units are being
sold to local families, as we have seen with a lot of our housing development here, not
only is it providing a home for local families, but that family is moving out of an
existing home, likely, and making that house available to some other family to move
into, right? That is how the cycle works and that opens it up to someone like myself
just entering the housing market to find an affordable market priced house from these
homes that are being vacated from people moving into housing development. We
know that thirty percent (30%) has not been working, we came out of the financial
crisis a while ago, housing prices are through the roof, we are not seeing a boom in
construction here, and there has been an analysis looking at other islands where you
can see the impacts of the economic crisis, and looking at potentially the impacts of
our housing ordinance to say, "How has this affected Kaua`i compared to other
islands?" We have had less construction than them. I support it and to reiterate
what Councilmember Chock was saying, is that this is one of the few amendments
that I think does have broad support from all sides of this issue I think anyone who
has looked seriously at this will recognize that twenty percent (20%) is important
Lastly, for me, I would not support it if it included the VDA, because the VDA has
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 10 SEPTEMBER 9, 2020
their own separate...I think a lot of the development that we are going to see within
the VDA is things like Kukui`ula that will be subject to the resort provisions here, so
I think that this works and I will support the amendment
Councilmember Kuali`i. Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock- Thank you I will just add, I was a part of the
last two (2) Housing Task Force groups and this was the centerpiece of the discussion
In the first Task Force, they were moving towards the twenty percent (20%) In the
second Task Force, it became sort of the "trigger" for the nexus study on whether or
not it was legal at the current percentage that it was at So it was because of where
it was that the whole introspection occurred and I think it was through that learning
that it became clear by all participants and stakeholders that it was a piece that
needed to be lowered, and it was safe in doing so, and that is why I am comfortable
introducing this amendment.
Councilmember Kuah`i• Councilmember Cowden
Councilmember Cowden I appreciate all of your input and I think my
perspective is probably deeply influenced by the side of the island that I have always
lived in, so I appreciate what you are saying I think in the areas where I have lived,
which is Kilauea to Ha`ena, that typically that other eighty percent (80%) is one
million (1,000,000), two million (2,000,000), twenty million (20,000,000), forty
million (40,000,000), that leftover eighty percent (80%) in the region where most of
my experience is, it is not in the range, so we are left to the ten percent (10%) or
twenty percent (20%) I instinctively react as if it is going to be not only a very big
house, but a big Areca hedge that no one can get to the beach or see it again. So that
is where my instincts come from, but I realize we are talking about the whole island
and not just our community. There is very little affordable housing, though I will
acknowledge Kolopua happened in the last twenty (20)years, about five (5)years ago
Thank you.
Councilmember Kuali`i Is there any final discussion from the
members? Chair, do you want to say anything? I will not repeat, but all made good
comments that I agree with I think it is important we move forward Remember,
the primary purpose of this housing policy is to incentivize the development of more
housing and to increase our inventory so that we can have more affordable housing.
Is this a roll call or regular vote?
The motion to amend Bill No 2774, Draft 3, as circulated, and as shown in the
Floor Amendment, which is attached hereto as Attachment 1 was then put,
and unanimously carried
Councilmember Kuali`i The amendment passes I believe we have one
more amendment from Councilmember Evslin.
Councilmember Evslin moved to amend Bill No 2774, Draft 3, as amended, as
circulated, and as shown in the Floor Amendment, which is attached hereto as
Attachment 2, seconded by Councilmember Kagawa
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 11 SEPTEMBER 9, 2020
Councilmember Evslin This amendment, done by the request of
Councilmember Kuah`i and Adam Rovers', would undo the previous amendment that
was made a few weeks ago to put in one hundred twenty percent (120%) or to take
the town cores out of the exemptions and put in the one hundred twenty
percent (120%) limit. So now it would make them exempt from the workforce
requirements. Again, the rationale for this, which Adam or Councilmember Kuali`i
could reiterate on, is we have heard repeatedly that one, by putting this deep
restriction on, you are adding another hurdle to development and the purpose with
the exemption is to try and streamline this process for the areas where housing
development is infeasible according to our current Keyser Marston study, and likely
as Councilmember Cowden was saying, if you have a project that faces some
difficulties with infrastructure, the one hundred twenty percent (120%) requirement
might end up killing it. Lastly, as Adam has said, that the market for these types of
condo units is not very high, so it is not likely that these are going to be coming online
at one hundred fifty percent (150%) anyway; there is just not a luxury condo market
on Kaua`i So it is likely that naturally these things will be coming in lower priced
anyway Councilmember Kuali`i or Adam, if you wanted to elaborate on that
rationale...
Councilmember Kuali`i. I would just say, this basically brings us back
to where we started We originally had the proposal for exemption for the special
planning areas and design districts and for the R-10 and greater density areas, so we
went from exemption to special assessment, and we are going back to exemption,
special infill multi-family workforce housing exemption Adam, do you want to add
anything else9
There being no objections, the rules were suspended
Mr. Roversi Sure Referring to some of the testimony that
has been received complaining about the proposed exemption, I just want to make a
point. It has been mentioned in some testimony that has been received that this
proposed exemption is eliminating all workforce housing requirements within these
specified areas and that is not really the way that the exemption is written A project
would fall under the exemption only if they met certain requirements, and one of
those very particular requirements is that the project in one of these special areas
has to be built to the maximum density allowed. That by definition means that it will
be a multi-family, relatively small, unit project One of the primary recommendations
from the Keyser Marston study is that multi-family, smaller unit developments, are
the most "bang for the buck" and most affordable way to develop relatively lower
priced housing units A developer is only going to be able to take advantage of these
exemptions if they are developing the type of apartment-style or condo complex that
is the most amenable to being affordable by its very nature The current market in
these areas, in our analysis demonstrates that when they are developed, granted not
many have been in quite a while, but when they are developed, they are offered for
sale or for rent at what we define as workforce prices or even below workforce prices
It is not exactly true that there is no luxury condo market; there certainly is, but the
luxury condo market is in the VDA, that is where the luxury condo market is, it is
not in these high density town core areas where you cannot TVR your unit that you
purchased as a second home, that is just not an option, so there is not particularly a
market for that I refer often to the D.R. Horton project in Hanama`ulu, just because
it is one of the very few large scale resident targeted developments on Kaua`i in quite
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 12 SEPTEMBER 9, 2020
a while, but statements have been made, in some of the testimonies as well, that
developers will charge as much as they can possibly get, but the market will only bear
so much When D R. Horton built their single-family homes, they may have liked to
sell them for a million dollars ($1,000,000), but those houses could only appraise
between four hundred eighty thousand dollars ($480,000) and low six hundred
thousand dollars ($600,000), that is all the bank was willing to loan anyone to
purchase one (1) of those homes because that is what those types of homes in that
area are worth. I think that we can trust at least within a ten (10) year horizon,
which is why we put in a recommended sunset provision, that relatively similar
market conditions will continue to bear during that time period I think the straw
man of these are going to be million dollar condos is a red herring, so I support the
amendment.
Councilmember Kuah`i. Does anyone have further questions for our
Housing Director9 Adam, one question I had was, if a developer who did a project
and built out to the maximum density, we anticipate that in many cases, they may
all in fact be below the one hundred twenty percent (120%) Area Median
Income (AMI)level, and if they are, then they would still be eligible to take advantage
of the incentive of the partial fee waiver for the fifty percent (50%) off of many of those
different fees
Mr Rovers' That is an interesting question that I have
been pondering lately and thinking of a possible additional amendment to bring to
you folks, but I do not want to complicate today's discussion with that Since the
presentation of these amendments to you folks, we have been approached by several
developers wanting to do what they described as affordable housing projects and they
fall within the broad parameters of affordable housing development, but they do not
necessarily have the specific percentage requirements breakdown that is presented
within the Housing Policy. As a practical matter, the Housing Director...there are
two dilemmas when it comes to certifying a project as affordable for purposes of the
kinds of fee exemptions you are talking about One, we have to have some sort of a
hammer to require the promise that is made to us to actually happen A developer
usually will come to the Housing Agency before anything is built, before any of the
permits are finally granted, and ask us to certify their project as affordable. Usually,
we require a written housing agreement that specifies what they are going to do, so
that we have some sort of contractual obligation with the developer to meet whatever
promises they have made So my answer would be, preliminarily,yes,we could certify
a project even when they are in one of these exempt areas as affordable for purposes
of those sort of fee waivers or reductions, but it would still require them to enter into
some sort of written agreement with the Housing Agency so if that developer sold the
lot to someone else, we could hold their feet to the fire to require that they live up to
the promises that they have made when they come to seek those fee exemptions
Councilmember Kualfi You are working on an amendment because
you think it would take an amendment or you would just do it in your certifying
process where you would not approve it unless you have it
Mr Roversi An example without describing the exact
location Recently, we were approached by a housing developer that wanted to
develop a parcel on the east side and they wanted half of the units to be at fifty
percent (50%) AMI, and half of the units to be at one hundred twenty percent (120%)
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 13 SEPTEMBER 9, 2020
AMI With the specific language in the Housing Policy, it is not clear that I am
allowed to certify that as an affordable housing development, because it does not meet
the specific requirements of the percentage AMI breakdowns that are in the Housing
Policy, so the notion of an amendment was to present you with some sort of language
that allowed the Housing Director with Council approval perhaps, to analyze a project
and define it as affordable even when it is not specifically meeting the eighty
percent (80%), one hundred percent (100%), one hundred twenty percent (120%)
breakdown that is presented in the Housing Policy
Councilmember Kuali`i I am not arguing against the amendment, but
when we reworded the amendment to speak of it more as a Multi-Family Workforce
Housing Special Assessment, then we actually created another category of affordable
with one hundred twenty percent (120%) or lower
Mr Rovers'. Not touching on any of the amendments you
are currently dealing with. Presenting you with completely new additional language
that deals with these sort of proposed projects that are presented to us as affordable
housing projects, but they fall a little bit outside of the specific categories that are
laid out in the existing Housing Pohcy, that maybe there needs to be a little bit of
flexibihty to deal with those sorts of projects, but I do not want to muddy the water
too much without having something specific to bring to you
Councilmember Kuali`i• Okay Can you probably get that to us in the
next two (2) weeks?
Mr Rovers' Of course.
Councilmember Kualfi Alright. Are there any further questions for
the director on this amendment before us9 If not, I will call the meeting back to order
and have the final discussion
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded
as follows
Councilmember Kuah`i. Councilmember Evslin, then Councilmember
Cowden.
Councilmember Evslin. I know we have gone over this ad nauseum for
months now,but I just want to reiterate the reason for the exemptions, again, because
there is so much confusion. Number one, from my perspective, the housing study
saying that the current housing ordinance makes development in the town cores
infeasible, and even with no exemption development is still marginally feasible for
high density construction, so not only is the recommendation an exemption from the
ordinance, but also other types of incentives. I think we have seen that play out over
the last fifteen (15) years or so. The land use build-out technical study showed that
only one percent (1%) of development on Kaua`i has happened in our town cores in
the last fifteen (15) years, eighty percent (80%) on agricultural land and low density
residential land So what I think effectively our housing ordinance has done is made
it nearly impossible to build in our town cores, which forces everyone to live far from
where they work, exacerbating our traffic issues, exacerbating our infrastructure
issues, et cetera I think the exemptions here are just one way to try and enable
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 14 SEPTEMBER 9, 2020
housing construction to happen in our town cores. As we have heard at the workshop
from a Koloa developer saying, with the current thirty percent (30%) requirement, he
has to build luxury urnts to pay for the subsidized units; if there is no exemption, then
he can build smaller, lower priced units, and that is what he likely will do if there is
an exemption That is why I support the exemptions here and it is what I think really
makes the whole housing ordinance...a creative fix, or attempted solution to our huge
housing problem.
Councilmember Kuah`r Councilmember Cowden
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Councilmember Cowden I want to acknowledge that same Koloa
developer, he had a lot to say even outside of the workshop, his vision for affordably
built apartments, it really made a lot of sense to me, if they are unrestricted they can
build affordably
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present)
Councilmember Cowden. With these amendments that are in front of
us, this one specifically, but I see that there are three (3) total To move the
conversation along, I am going to go with them I am a little uncomfortable that we
end up building for someone other than ours We do not know what is going to happen
in the kind of economy that we are in and what is going on nationally, but I am willing
to move the conversation forward and when I look at what I would call some urban
decay that is right down here in the Rice Street area, there is a lot of buildings that
are underutilized or unutilized, it is going to cost someone a lot of money to come in
and clean it up and rebuild it I think it still helps all of us to have a nice town core
where people are living and active in it When we look at the biggest challenge for
any affordable housing it is the lack of infrastructure, old or not, at least it is right
here. I am going to move forward with these and I know that we have more coming,
so if people are out there listening and are really unhappy, voice up
Councilmember Kualfi• Is there any final discussion from the
members? Council Chair Kaneshiro
Council Chair Kaneshiro I am not a voting member, but I just wanted
to say, we have attended a lot of meetings, workshop group meetings on this, and
when we added that one hundred twenty percent (120%), it sounded like a good thing
at first, to say put the one hundred twenty percent (120%) as a measure to prevent
house prices from going sky high, but I found it way more difficult to argue that we
are making this policy easier for people to develop with the one hundred twenty
percent (120%) there. As much as we want to try to put in safety measures, we came
back to the realization that if we want housing to be built, we need to make it truly
easier That one hundred twenty percent (120%) was becoming quite a problem as
far as trying to argue that this policy that we are passing is easier for people to
develop affordable housing, develop any type of housing I think that is where we
came back to the position of...we have talked about it, we put it out there, we had it
amended, we looked at it, we talked about it with the community, and it is very
difficult to defend that this policy is making it easier with a one hundred twenty
percent (120%) cap on the policy
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 15 SEPTEMBER 9, 2020
Councilmember Kagawa• Again, I just want to state, yesterday the Star
Bulletin reported that in Honolulu the average median house went to a record high
of eight hundred thirty-three thousand dollars ($833,000) If that does not throw out
all of the thinking about how are you going to adjust numbers to get developers to
build, and you are looking at one hundred twenty percent (120%) and one hundred
percent (100%); who in the middle class can afford eight hundred thirty-three
thousand dollars ($833,000)9 Then, if you subsidize a few, who is going to pay for
that? Do those become million dollar ($1,000,000) type homes? Then you are pretty
much knocking out all of the local people Getting control over the market is
something that is causing the problems to worsen with us trying to find a solution.
There is no developer that is going to move on housing if they are going to break even
Now look at Young Brothers, their rates will increase by forty-six percent (46%). The
houses will get way more expensive, just for the materials It is kind of bowing down
to the developers on what they say can move, because at the end of the day the market
has lost control of itself in Hawaii, and Kaua`i is no different. It is not a bright picture
because that has happened, but the reality is, do we still have a lot of local people
that need housing on Kaua`i7 No doubt Who wants to only rent their whole life?
They want to own a home for their family, their young ones, and if we do not have the
inventory, then there is nothing for them and they have to look at other means. Then
who can buy the land and develop on their own too? It is really tough It is not easy
to solve, but I think these amendments are helping because we are at least doing
some changes that we hear are things that are making the developers not do
anything Thanks
Councilmember Kuali`i• Councilmember Chock
Councilmember Chock• Thank you I think what did it for me at the
workshop was this particular developer from Koloa and the challenges...first his
interest in wanting to serve the community in a way that will provide the kind of
housing that I think would work for what our needs are We need to provide avenues
for that to occur and it was evident by his testimony that we were not doing that with
the current direction, even though our intentions were good I am a httle bit out of
comfort because this is ten (10) years for exemption period, we have to see how it
works, and we need to keep our hands on it to ensure that it is moving in the right
direction, but I do think it is directed properly We need to look at how it is we build
the lower tiers that we are talking about together Thanks.
Councilmember Kuali`i• Thank you Is there anyone else? I would just
say I feel confident that we are moving in the right direction Having spent a lot of
time listening to the stakeholders and especially, lately in the last month or so with
the workshop, so we are just trying to do the best we can to try and do something
different that would work and bring us more housing Let us vote
The motion to amend Bill No 2774, Draft 3, as circulated and as shown in the
Floor Amendment, which is attached hereto as Attachment 2 was then put,
and unanimously carried
Councilmember Kuali`i• The amendment passes. I did have prepared
a third amendment regarding the term of affordability, but after the discussions with
the Housing Director and how I want to follow-up further with Stephen Spears from
Habitat, I am going to hold off on this amendment, but if there are any other
HIR COMMITTEE MEETING 16 SEPTEMBER 9, 2020
amendments from anyone else, now would be the time Thank you Vice Chair for
being willing to introduce that, hopefully in two (2) weeks
Councilmember Cowden I have a question
Councilmember Kuali`i• Councilmember Cowden
Councilmember Cowden I was looking at what was here, we are going
to leave the duration of restriction at twenty (20) years.
Councilmember Kuali`i There is no amendment on that today If
there are no further amendments, just to reiterate, my hope is that we can begin to
work towards wrapping up this Bill in the next few weeks. It is my intention that we
get this Bill out of Committee and to the full Council before the completion of this
current term, so we can have something pass I need to ask for a motion to defer
Councilmember Chock moved to defer Bill No 2774, Draft 3, as amended to
Bill No. 2774, Draft 4, seconded by Councilmember Kagawa, and unanimously
carried.
There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 2.31 p m
Respectfully submitted,
Jessica Young
Council Services Assistant I
APPROVED at the Committee Meeting held on September 23, 2020.
q(A4ce4,‘,qcLei,c-c,,r .,
KIPUI4AI KUALI`I
Chair, HIR Committee
*Beginning with the March 11, 2020 Council Meeting and until further notice,
Councilmember Arthur Brun will not be present due to U S v Arthur Brun et al ,
Cr No 20-00024-DKW (United States District Court), and therefore will be noted as
excused (i e , not present)
Attachment 1
(September 9, 2020)
FLOOR AMENDMENT
Bill No. 2774, Draft 3, Amendments to the County Housing Policy
Introduced by MASON K CHOCK, Councilmember
Amend Bill No. 2774, Draft 3, by amending Sec 7A-2 1(a), Residential
Developments, as follows•
(a) Residential Developments A [thirty percent (30%)] twenty
percent (20%) workforce housing requirement shall be assessed to any
residential project subject to the Workforce Housing Policy The housing
assessment shall be satisfied by fee-simple sale of workforce housing units at
affordable housing prices, which shall be determined by the Housing Agency
pursuant to Article 4 of this Chapter.
(1) For a residential development consisting of ten (10) to
twenty-five (25) units, a developer shall be required to satisfy a
workforce housing requirement based on project's total number of
residential units Workforce housing units shall be sold to households
earning from eighty percent (80%) to [one hundred forty percent (140%)]
one hundred twenty percent (120%) of Kaua`i median household income,
with the average sales price being affordable to households earning one
hundred percent (100%) of Kaua`i median household income
(2) For a residential development consisting of twenty-six (26)
units or more, a developer shall be required to satisfy a workforce
housing requirement based on project's total number of residential
units. Workforce housing units shall be sold to households earning from
eighty percent (80%) to [one hundred forty percent (140%)] one hundred
twenty percent (120%) of Kaua`i median household income, in
accordance with the following income group assessment.
(A) [Twenty percent (20%)] Thirty percent (30%) of total
units priced to be affordable to households earning up to eighty
percent (80%) of the Kaua`i median household income
(B) [Thirty percent (30%)] Forty percent (40%) of total
units priced to be affordable to households earning up to one
hundred percent (100%) of the Kaua`i median household income
(C) Thirty percent (30%) of total units priced to be
affordable to households earning up to one hundred twenty
percent (120%) of the Kaua`i median household income
[(D) Twenty percent (20%) of total units priced to
be affordable to households earning up to one hundred forty
percent (140%) of the Kaua`i median household income.]
(Material to be deleted is bracketed New material to be added is underscored )
V\AMENDMENTS\2020\FA2 - 2774 D3 MC AMKJy docx
Attachment 2
(September 9, 2020)
FLOOR AMENDMENT
Bill No 2774, Draft 3, Amendments to the County Housing Policy
Introduced by: LUKE A EVSLIN, Councilmember
Amend Bill No 2774, Draft 3, as follows
1) Delete proposed Sec. 7A-2.1(b) in its entirety, and renumber all subsequent
sections accordingly
"[(b) Multi-Family Workforce Housing Special Assessments Projects
in the following special areas may elect to adhere to modified workforce
housing requirements described below
(1) Projects within the following special planning areas and
design districts, developed at or above the maximum density allowed, or
in areas subject to form based codes developed as multi-family projects
may elect to provide all units at or below 120% of Kaua`i median
household income-
(1) Lihu`e Town Core Urban Design District as defined
in Title IV, Chapter 10, Article 5A
(2) Koloa Town Walkable Mixed Use District as defined
in Title IV, Chapter 10, Article 6.
(3) Kalaheo Town Walkable Mixed Use District as
defined in Title IV, Chapter 10, Article 6.
(2) Projects outside of Visitor Destination Areas and Special
Management Areas in residential or mixed use zoning districts with a
density of R-10 or greater, consisting of multiple or single family
attached dwellings, developed at or above the maximum density allowed
may elect to provide all units at or below 120% of Kaua`i median
household income.]"
(Material to be deleted is bracketed All material is new.)
2) Amend SECTION 13 to read as follows
SECTION 13. Chapter 7A, Kaua`i County Code 1987, as amended, is
hereby amended by adding a new Sec. 7A-1 4 2, Exemptions, as follows-
"Sec 7A-1 4 2 Exemptions
(a) The workforce housing requirements of this Chapter shall not
apply to any affordable or workforce housing development developed by or for
the County, either by itself or in partnership with another housing
development organization
(b) Special Infill Multi-Family Workforce Housing Exemption.
Projects in the following special areas may elect to adhere to modified
workforce housing requirements described below:
(1) Projects within the following special planning areas and
design districts, developed at or above the maximum density allowed, or
in areas subject to form based codes developed as multi-family projects:
(A) Lihu`e Town Core Urban Design District as defined
in Title IV, Chapter 10, Article 5A
(B) Koloa Town Walkable Mixed Use District as defined
in Title IV, Chapter 10, Article 6
(C) Kalaheo Town Walkable Mixed Use District as
defined in Title IV, Chapter 10, Article 6.
(2) Projects outside of Visitor Destination Areas and Special
Management Areas in residential or mixed use zoning districts with a
density of R-10 or greater, consisting of multiple or single family
attached dwellings, developed at or above the maximum density
allowed.
(3) The Special Infill Multi-Family Workforce Housing
Exemption provisions in this subsection shall expire ten (10) years from
the date of their adoption."
(Material to be added is underscored.)
V\AMENDMENTS\2020\FA3 alternate -2774d3 AMKJy docx