HomeMy WebLinkAbout03/13/2019 Council minutes COUNCIL MEETING
MARCH 13, 2019
The Council Meeting of the Council of the County of Kaua`i was called to order
by Council Chair Arryl Kaneshiro at the Council Chambers, 4396 Rice Street,
Suite 201, Lihu`e, Kaua`i, on Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 8:34 a.m., after which
the following Members answered the call of the roll:
Honorable Arthur Brun (excused at 2:02 p.m.)
Honorable Mason K. Chock
Honorable Felicia Cowden
Honorable Luke A. Evslin
Honorable Ross Kagawa
Honorable KipuKai Kuali`i
Honorable Arryl Kaneshiro
APPROVAL OF AGENDA.
Councilmember Kuali`i moved for approval of the agenda, as circulated,
seconded by Councilmember Cowden.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Seeing none, members, is there any
discussion on the agenda?
The motion for approval of the agenda, as circulated, was then put, and
unanimously carried.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: The motion is carried.
MINUTES of the following meeting of the Council:
February 20, 2019 Public Hearing re: Bill No. 2733
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to approve the Minutes as circulated, seconded
by Councilmember Brun.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify on the Minutes?
COUNCIL MEETING 2 MARCH 13, 2019
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony. •
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Seeing none, is there any discussion from the
members?
The motion to approve the Minutes, as circulated, was then put, and
unanimously carried.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Motion carried. Next item.
CONSENT CALENDAR:
C 2019-45 Communication (02/05/2019) from the Mayor, transmitting for
Council consideration and confirmation, the following Mayoral appointments to the
various Boards and Commissions for the County of Kaua`i:
a. Board of Water Supply
• Kurt S. Akamine — Term ending 12/31/2021
b. Charter Review Commission
• Lori K. Koga — Term ending 12/31/2021
c. Salary Commission
• Leland K. Kahawai— Term ending 12/31/2021
C 2019-46 Communication (02/14/2019) from the Director of Finance,
transmitting for Council information, the Condition of the County Treasury
Statement quarterly report restated as of February 8, 2019, inclusive of unreconciled
Condition of Treasury Statements as of February 8, 2018, May 11, 2018,
August 7, 2018, and November 21, 2018.
C 2019-47 Communication (02/14/2019) from the Director of Finance,
transmitting for Council information, the Period 6 Financial Reports — Statement of
Revenues, Statement of Expenditures and Encumbrances, Revenue Report, and
Detailed Budget Report as of December 31, 2018, pursuant to Section 21 of Ordinance
No. B-2018-841, relating to the Operating Budget of the County of Kaua`i for Fiscal Year
2018-2019.
C 2019-48 Communication (02/19/2019) from Councilmember Evslin,
providing written disclosure of a possible conflict of interest and recusal relating to
Bill No. 2733, as ruled on by the County of Kaua`i Board of Ethics at the
February 15, 2019 County of Kaua`i Board of Ethics Meeting.
COUNCIL MEETING 3 MARCH 13, 2019
C 2019-49 Communication (02/19/2019) from Council Chair Kaneshiro,
providing written disclosure of a possible conflict of interest and recusal relating to
C 2019-44, Dedication Deed by Grove Farm Land Corp., conveying to the County of
Kaua`i Lot 1516 Kolopa Street extension, Lihu`e, Kaua`i, Hawai`i, Tax Map
Key (TMK) No. (4) 3-3-010-049 (por.) for roadway purposes, as he is employed with
Grove Farm, Incorporated.
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to receive C 2019-45, C 2019-46, C 2019-47,
C 2019-48, and C 2019-49 for the record, seconded by Councilmember Brun.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify on the Consent Calendar?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Seeing none, is there any discussion from the
members?
The motion to receive C 2019-45, C 2019-46, C 2019-47, C 2019-48, and
C 2019-49 for the record was then put, and unanimously carried.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Motion carried. Next item.
COMMUNICATIONS:
There being no objections, C 2019-52 was taken out of order.
C 2019-52 Communication (02/20/2019) from Council Chair Kaneshiro,
requesting the presence of Thomas Williams, Executive Director of the State of
Hawai`i Employees' Retirement System (ERS), to provide a briefing on the State ERS
and the financial implications to the County of Kaua`i.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: May I get a motion?
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to receive C 2019-52 for the record, seconded by
Councilmember Chock.
(Councilmember Brun was noted as not present).
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Tom is going to be first on the agenda; he flew
in from O`ahu. We will go through Tom's presentation and hold our questions until
the end of the presentation. If you have questions on certain pages, mark it, and we
will go back. With that, you have the floor Tom.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
COUNCIL MEETING 4 MARCH 13, 2019
THOMAS WILLIAMS, Executive Director of the State of Hawai`i's Employees'
Retirement System (ERS): Thank you so much. Chair, members of the
Council, aloha. I am Thomas Williams the Executive Director of Employees'
Retirement System. It is really a great honor for me to be invited here again to
update you on the status of the Employees' Retirement System. I am very proud of
the system for a whole variety of reasons. Key amongst them is the recognition of
how important these benefits are, not only to the member stakeholders, but to the
entirety of our State. You as employers contribute significantly to these programs.
These programs correspondingly generate significant economic benefit across the
entirety of the State. There is a multiplier effect of almost seventy percent (70%).
For example, every dollar that we pay out in benefit is, you know, the significant
majority is generated from investment earnings. Not to differentiate us from other
State agencies, but we are in fact, one of those agencies for which the contributions
that you make are multiplied. We actually generate money and that money is used
to support your County employees, and State workers across the State. Before I
begin, apart from the expression of gratitude to yet again have the opportunity to
update you, I wanted to recognize a couple of colleagues of mine, who are in your
service on a day-to-day basis and that is Sheri Kunioka-Volz who staffs our Kaua`i
office here; and of course, Michelle Hinazumi, who works in the office also. They are
the ones that do the heavy lifting day-to-day. I am so proud of what they do for you
and for our organization. We have an agenda that I will illustrate briefly and perhaps
you have a hard copy before you. It is not intended to be constraining. I know you
have lots of other business to attend to today, so I know we will not spend the entirety
of it on the Employees' Retirement System. I want you to feel comfortable if there
are issues that are not in the formal agenda and at the appropriate time as the Chair
suggests and permits, feel free to ask any and all questions that come to mind. I
realize there are a number of new Councilmembers. These programs are sometimes
perceived as rather complexed. I will do my best to demystify that to the extent I
can. That is what the agenda looks like and we will give you a little bit of background
on the system and then begin to focus on some of the specifics as they relate to the
County of Kaua`i. Just more broadly, the membership is significant. We have one
hundred forty-one thousand (141,000) almost one hundred forty-two thousand
(142,000) members. That is sixty six thousand (66,000) active employees, forty-eight
thousand (48,000) retirees and beneficiaries; surviving spouses and others, and of
course about twenty-seven thousand (27,000) individuals who have accumulated
benefits in the system who have terminated their employment and may come back
and secure additional service, or for whom refunds may be warranted. One hundred
forty-one thousand (141,000) is a pretty significant number because we have about
one million four hundred thousand (1,400,000) people as a population in the State.
So that represents about ten percent (10%) of the State population is in this
retirement plan. When you consider average family size is about two point eight (2.8),
it is easy to infer that almost a third of the State is in a household that is directly
impacted by the benefits that this program generates. About one million four
hundred thousand dollars ($1,400,000)...one billion four hundred million dollars
($1,400,000,000) a year is being currently paid out in benefits. This outlines the ERS
Membership. I mentioned it earlier in terms of the total one hundred forty-one
thousand (141,000). It is attempting to illustrate how that membership has grown
since 2005-2018. Back in 2005, there were one hundred one thousand (101,000)
members. We are now almost one hundred forty-two thousand (142,000) members.
COUNCIL MEETING 5 MARCH 13, 2019
That is a forty percent (40%) growth rate over that twelve/thirteen (12/13) year
period. The next slide focuses on the retirees, and this is significant because we are
a fairly mature plan. When plans are first implemented, they have more workers
than they have retirees. We still are in that circumstance, but the ratio is shifting
because we are increasingly growing our retiree population. As this particular slide
shows back in 2005, we had about thirty-three thousand (33,000) retirees, and we
have forty-eight thousand (48,000) retirees today. That is a forty-six percent (46%)
increase in the numbers of retirees over that timeframe. What is also significant
about that, and I think it may be illustrated on this next slide, is of those sixty-six
thousand (66,000) active employees, fourteen thousand (14,000) of them are eligible
to retire today. They have years' of service and the achieved age at which they can
retire. So twenty-one percent (21%) of our employee population could elect to retire
today and begin receiving benefits. That would have implications in terms of our
investment program, our payouts of benefits, and the like. I do not have any sense
that they are all planning to depart immediately, but it is something that we factor
in when we look at our forecast financially and demographically. We are paying out
one billion four hundred twenty million dollars ($1,420,000,000) in 2018 to our
retirees and that will be three billion five hundred million dollars ($3,500,000,000) in
thirty (30) years. The average annual pension is about twenty-eight thousand dollars
($28,000) almost twenty-seven thousand dollars ($27,000). There is a significant
disparity as you can imagine in the pension from the top to bottom. We have a
number of members who receive pensions well in excess of one hundred thousand
dollars ($100,000) a year, and some significantly more meager than that twenty-eight
thousand (28,000), but that is the average. To the extent that folks believe these
programs are overly generous and broad and that everyone is living the life of luxury
in retirement is not actually so. Obviously the results differ depending upon your
work experience and your salary levels and the like. A little bit about the assets. We
are fairly substantial financial institution. We have sixteen billion six hundred
million dollars ($16,600,000,000) in assets as of June 30th of last year. The return,
the investment income on those assets last year was seven point nine percent (7.9%).
You know, it was good. We expected to forecast that on an average basis that we are
going receive seven percent (7%) a year. That number was lowered a couple of years
ago, I think, beginning in 2016 from seven and a half (7 %) down to seven (7). We
think it is reasonably conservative and attainable. It is difficult to achieve with
regularity. It is over a long period of time that we anticipate that to be derived. This
sort of illustrates why we do not get that in any single year. If you were to look at
the blue line, that represents the seven percent (7%) expected annual average return.
We probably seldom have been within three hundred (300) basis points of that seven
percent (7%). As you can see significant volatility above and below that seven percent
(7%) blue line. Over the last five (5) years, we averaged about eight point two (8.2%),
six point two (6.2) return over the last ten (10) years, and for June 30, 2018, that
lower number is reflective of the great financial crisis 2008-2009, and so that brings
the average down somewhat. It will go up as those members drop off and we look at
a ten (10)year period. Over the fifteen (15)year period, it is a seven point four percent
(7.4%) return, which is in line with the seven percent (7%) that we are assuming. It
kind of supports that it is a reasonable assumption to embrace because our long-term
experience is consistent with that.
COUNCIL MEETING 6 MARCH 13, 2019
The funded status. The funded status relates to the ratio of assets to our
liabilities. If we had every dollar we needed to pay, all of the liabilities of benefits
we have promised and that are owed to our members, we would be one hundred
percent (100%) fully funded, but we do not have that. We actually have liabilities of
almost thirty billion dollars ($30,000,000,000), assets of sixteen billion five hundred
million dollars ($16,500,000,000). That leaves a gap of about thirteen billion four
hundred million dollars ($13,400,000,000), that is our unfunded actuarial accrued
liability and that is the number that gets all of the attention locally and nationally
for public pension plans around the country. It is a challenge to close that gap, to
amortize that unfunded liability. I have testified here before that the reasons for that
unfunded liability relate to skimming that occurred for a significant period of years,
I think thirty-six (36), thirty-seven (37) years. The legislature would take
earnings...well, any earnings in excess of the assumption would be...the contribution
would be reduced thereby. So if we assumed eight percent (8%) return, and let us
just say we got two hundred million dollars ($200,000,000) more in earnings above
the eight percent (8%), the State would lower its contribution by that two hundred
million dollars ($200,000,000). So all of the upside was sort of siphoned off and when
the down side occurs there was no supplementation and there was no money put back
in. A number of organizations around the country saw these in a rosy circumstance
or in a light that you know things will continually improve and sometimes you just
do not anticipate recessions and other economic downturns that are a reality, quite
frankly. Therefore, we are paying the price today for some of those behaviors in the
past. I mentioned the funded ratio assets to liabilities. We are currently have
fifty-five point five percent (55.5%), meaning we have got fifty-five cents ($0.55) for
every dollar that we owe. The differential is made up in employer contributions,
employee contributions, and investment earnings. I am not pleased to highlight that
we are in the bottom quartile of public pension plans around the nation at our funding
level, but with the contribution increases and new tiers of benefits, and the reforms
that occurred in 2012, we are on a path toward full funding and we expect if all
assumptions are realized to be fully funded within twenty-five (25) years. The
actuarial target is no greater than thirty (30) years. Well, we are moving, hopefully,
each year closer to that full funding target where in 2043, we should owe no further
unfunded liabilities on our plan. This is a slide that compares the actuarial
evaluation that was done as of June 30, 2018 to 2017. Both expected in actual results.
Just to look at 2017, we see that we had an unfunded liability of twelve billion ninety
hundred thirty million dollars ($12,930,000,000) and it is now thirteen billion four
hundred million dollars ($13,400,000,000). You know, we had a good year. Why did
we go up? Well, it goes up and is expected to increase each year for the next four (4)
to five (5) years, actually to 2023, and then it starts to go down because the new
contribution increases are kicking in, and as those kick in, we will begin to amortize
some of the accrued interest and then the curve will decline and begin to decline
rapidly. We fully anticipate the unfunded liability is going to go up through 2023 and
then begin to taper down. I have got some slides that show that. The funded ratio,
we talked about fifty-five (55) to twenty-five (25) year period to full funding and that
is what we expect and that is what we realized. We mentioned here a smooth value
of assets and market value assets. They are very close this year. Sometimes there is
a disparity between those two. There is an actuarial practice of trying to average out
gains and losses over some timeframe usually four (4) to five (5) years. We use a four
(4) year smoothing period, so that twenty-five percent (25%) of any increases above
COUNCIL MEETING 7 MARCH 13, 2019
the assumption are spread over four (4) years and losses below the assumption is
spread over four (4) years. So you do not have the volatility in contributions. If we
were to reflect every gain and every loss in the required contributions, your
contribution rates would do like that and you would not have any predictability from
a budget perspective. So this is routinely embraced actuarial methodology to smooth,
but it is creating no difference in terms of value because right now the actuarial and
the market value are pretty much right on top of each other. The retirement
programs are mathematical in their origin, but it incorporates a significant number
of assumptions. We always true-up at the end of every year to see what really
happened. We have this necessity to forecast, and I just wanted to illustrate to you
the things that have the biggest impact in terms of how much money it takes to fund
the system and how long it takes to achieve that full funding? The biggest end
number no question, or the biggest impact is from investment returns. That is why
the investment program of our system is so vitally important. At another opportunity
I will argue for investments and our investment program, which the State has not
supported as aggressively as I think they need to going forward. Again, the majority
of every dollar comes from the investment program and our investment programs
have grown, the assets that we are managing are significant, the complexity of those
assets, and they are no longer just stocks and bonds. It is a global investment
program with private equity, real estate, private debt, and options and puts. I mean
all kinds of financial instruments. Appropriate for a pension fund investment, but
those are the types of investments you have to be able to be exposed to in order to
achieve a seven percent (7%) return. If you wanted to play it fully safe and just invest
in treasury notes, you know you would be getting about two percent (2%), two and
one quarter percent (2 1/4) on your return as opposed to seven percent (7%). So there
is some level of risk that must be taken in order to achieve the reward, the return
that we are looking for. After investment return, life expectancy is the next biggest
impact. Of course, that is a good thing when people live long. Hawaiians or people
in the State of Hawai`i have the highest life expectancy of anyone in the nation;
number one (1). So our membership live longer than average membership in any
other State in the nation. It is a good air and water and aloha presumably that adds
to all of that, but it means that we have to pay benefits for longer periods of time.
Meaning that we have to earn more money, which is good thing. That is our charge.
Payroll growth. Payroll growth relates to the growth in the member population
so as the State or the County's grow their population two percent (2%), three percent
(3%), member population means more contributions are coming into the system to
help cover the cost of benefits and the payoff unfunded liabilities. Payroll growth is
important for a couple of reasons. There is a new tier of benefits and we will illustrate
this a little later on. There are higher...better level of benefits for people who are
hired prior to July 1, 2012 and those after get a very generous plan, but it is less
generous than those prior. The contributions that are being made by the current
group of new hires since July of 2012, fifty percent (50%) of every dollar that is
contributed on their behalf goes to pay the unfunded liability for the people who were
hired prior. So payroll growth is important because it helps to amortize that
unfunded liability more quickly. Individual salary increases. That is also a big
number. So we assume a salary growth rate in the system and to the extent salaries
grow less rapidly. There is an actuarial gain we benefit to the system, but if they
grow more rapidly, there is an actuarial loss and we lose, and the liability goes up. I
COUNCIL MEETING 8 MARCH 13, 2019
think you will see later in the presentation that salaries in some classifications have
grown more quickly than the actuarial assumptions would suggest, but we do an
experience study. In the past, we have done those every five (5) years, at present we
do them every three (3) years, and try to true-up the actual experience to what we
forecast. So if we are thinking it is going to grow at three percent (3%) and it is
actually been three and one half percent (3.5%), then we update our factors and our
assumptions. We also talk, of course, with the State and the Counties as to what they
are expecting as it relates to salary increases. We participate in some of the
arbitration hearings because it is a significant component of total compensation, the
health care benefits, and the retirement benefits. One of my jobs more recently is to
be an expert testifier at these arbitration hearings so that people understand the full
cost of salary increments. It is not only the direct salary, it is the benefits that accrue
from those salaries, the retirement and health insurance, and the like. Of course
those are important not only because of their direct costs, but our ability to fund these
liabilities impacts the States and the County's borrowing cost. The rating agencies
the Moody's, Fitch, and S&P, one of their major considerations is the employer
capacity to address the unfunded liabilities in uncertain economic times. When there
is a recession that occurs, do you have a funding plan, a policy? Do you have
reserves? Do you have the capacity to continue to make the contributions? More
recently the State issued some, I think just under one billion dollars ($1,000,000,000)
in bonds and all of the rating agencies affirmed the State's rating very, very strong
and suggested that it was well prepared to sort of suffer through and manage a
downturn in the economy. We have also done some stress tests that show how that
would affect the retirement fund as well.
I mentioned mortality improvements. This is looking at longevity for teachers,
general employees, Police and Fire. Those are the three blocks in each of those age
categories. The slightly light shaded bars at the top show the improvement since
2005 versus 2015. So if you were to look at the far left, a person retiring at age
sixty (60) in 2005 would have been expected to live about twenty-five (25) years. At
age sixty-five (65), they would have been expected to live about twenty-five (25)years,
but in the ten (10) year period, the life expectancy has increased one point four (1.4)
years for teachers, one point eight (1.8) for general employees, and two point three
(2.3) for Police and Fire. There is a whole lot of reasons for those improvements.
Police and Fire, better safety equipment and health care, and some of that applies
across the board. The younger you are, the larger the increase was in terms of
expected longevity and that continues to grow. So for the folks that are coming
onboard today are expected to live significantly longer than the cohort who was
employed ten (10) years ago, and we factor that into our models. This shows the
compensation salary increases by Police and Fire, the dark or red bar; teachers, the
green light green; and the general employees, dark green. You can see it varies
substantially year by year. This goes from 2009 to 2018. If you look at 2012 and 2010
there is some negative years. I believe those relate to some furlough years where the
payroll was less. This is reflective of the total payroll and because some employees
and teachers and others were required to furlough, we did not get the payroll that we
would have so that is the negative there. If you were to look at the chart at the top
of the page and I need to move on here to that. The chart at top of the page shows
what the assumptions are for salary growth, salary increase, what the actual average
has been, and the average over the last three (3) years. If you were to look first at
COUNCIL MEETING 9 MARCH 13, 2019
general employees, the actual average salary increase has been about two point eight
percent (2.8%) and we assumed three and one half percent (3.5%). That would
represent an actuarial gain. Over the last three (3) years, the actual average has
been four point two percent (4.2%). It was two point eight percent (2.8%) over this
period from 2009 to 2018, but over the last three (3) years, it has been four point
two percent (4.2%), which is about a twenty percent (20%) increase above what we
had assumed. Same thing for teachers. Teachers, the actual average was two point
eight (2.8) over that ten (10) year period roughly. The current assumption is that
they are going to have salaries grow by three and three quarters percent (3.75%) and
the actual was four point one percent (4.1%) and I believe that is about a nine percent
(9%) differential. For Police and Fire, where the actual average was five point eight
(5.8), we assume a five (5), but the actual over the last three (3) years has been seven
point four percent (7.4%). That is forty-eight percent (48%) above what we actually
assumed. So there is significant liabilities and costs accrue because of salary
increases higher than what we assumed. I am not suggesting in any way these
increases are not deserved, but it has an impact on the cost of the plan. So to be
awear of these costs is what is significant for your responsibility as leaders and
Councilmembers. I do not want to overstate the cost just to the employer because the
employees contribute to the plan as well. This chart shows what employees
contributing both pre and post July 1st of 2012, depending upon the classification of
which plan they are in. So as you can see some general employees in the hybrid plan
contributed six percent (6%) before and now contributing eight percent (8%). Judges
were contributing seven point eight (7.8) and they are now nine point eight (9.8), and
that is just largely for reference purposes. Employer contribution rates. I mentioned
that one of the reasons we are addressing our unfunded liability is because employer
contribution rates are increasing. I think it was Act 17 in 2017 that mandated
increased employer increases for both general employees and Police and Fire. We
right now are in the middle of that July 1, 2018, where the Police and Fire
contribution rate employer rate is thirty-one percent (31%) and it is nineteen percent
(19%) for general employees. As you can see that is expected to increase to thirty-six
percent (36%) and twenty-two percent (22%) respectively next year. It will finally
end in 2020 at forty-one percent (41%) for Police and Fire, and twenty-four percent
(24%) for general employees. I recognize those are difficult to sustain. I mean, this
is something that competes with every other need, including health insurance. I
believe if you were to add the Retirement Program, Health Insurance, Debt Service,
and Medicare; you would have about fifty-two percent (52%) of the revenues of the
State directed to just those. So to the extent you have to fund education and
infrastructure and other services, you know, there is not an awful lot of latitude left.
So this relates to why I said the investment program is so important. We cannot
increase contributions anymore. I would not want to have to because it is already
amongst some of the highest in the nation. They are necessary and they need to be
sustained, but we have to find other ways, and the only way to lower the plan's cost
is to earn more, or to decrease the benefits. So we decrease benefits for future new
members. There is some capacity to change benefits for existing workers, but only
prospectively because there are constitutional guarantees for benefits that have
already been accrued. So anything that you have earned to-date cannot be reduced,
but even for prior to July of 2012, you can lower benefits going forward, but not
retrospectively. That is not a popular discussion. If we had to do that that would
obviously be on the table, because if you cannot increase contributions, you have got
COUNCIL MEETING 10 MARCH 13, 2019
to find other levers to pull. The one I want to pull relates to a reasonable investment
and our investment capabilities because it is a big return on the investment. It shows
for 2018 the County and employer contributions is eighteen million dollars
($18,000,000). The number below that is for all employers. It does not include
employee contributions, which gets us up to about one billion two hundred million
dollars ($1,200,000,000) when you add employee contributions to it. So those are
significant numbers and I need not to convince you of that.
This chart shows the participation in the plan by age, by benefit plan, and your
participation if you are a retiree, active, and if you are in a previous plan or one of
these post-2012 hires. As you can see, the red numbers are the 2012 hires and later.
They are becoming an increasingly large part of our membership. They actually
represent just shy of a third of our membership. So as they more represented in our
program, the cost of funding their benefits goes down because they get lesser benefits
and contribute more. The flipside of that is this slide. Now the post-2012 people are
barely visible. This relates to the liabilities. Where are the liabilities of the plan
resident and there resident for all of those prior generations? So the post-2012 hires
represent about a third of the participants, but only about six percent (6%) of the
liabilities. The liabilities tend to be toward the older prior tier of workers. That is
where some of the concern continues to lie when we talk a little later about some of
the excess costs that are resulting from something called pension spiking, which I
think I know is a concern of the Chair and other members here. That is going to be
illustrated in this next slide.
This is the estimated cost to the County for...well, not for pension spiking. This
is total contributions. This is how they are going up each year over the next four (4)
years. So twenty million dollars ($20,000,000) this year, twenty-four million dollars
($24,000,000), twenty-seven million dollars ($27,000,000), almost twenty-eight
million dollars ($28,000,000), and then twenty-nine million dollars ($29,000,000) for
the plan. This represents the County's expected cost to fund the pension plan and
when it gets to the 2022 period, it would of course stay at that level and only increase
to the extent that your population of payroll increases. This is the spiking costs I
alluded to. We have a projection of what normal benefits are and what your base pay
is and to the extent that people in their final compensation earn significantly above
that as a result of excess compensation or overtime et cetera. It ratchets up their
benefits dramatically and correspondingly ratchets up the liability, because no
contributions have been made prior, because contributions are made over a career,
based on their current salary, and then all of a sudden, the last year your salary goes
up. There is no way for the contributions to make up for that dramatic increase,
because those contributions are invested over the entire career of the worker and
those contributions are now attributed to a much bigger base and it is only for a year
or two. It creates a dramatic increase in the liability. A law was passed to allow the
system to charge the employers for those spiking costs. The additional, it is the cost,
the net present value of these additional benefits and that is what we charge back to
you and employers. You can see in 2014 there were seven individuals who were
spiking and it was two hundred thirteen thousand dollars ($213,000). In 2015,
twenty-four (24) for one million one hundred thousand dollars ($1,100,000). In 2016,
ten (10) people but the numbers were not as egregious, but higher than 2014. You
can see in 2018, two million dollars ($2,000,000) and two million four hundred
COUNCIL MEETING 11 MARCH 13, 2019
thousand dollars ($2,400,000) for twenty-one (21) individuals. We calculate that on
an individual basis and we have been working with your finance team here to validate
these numbers giving them the data on the individuals who have created these
particular additional benefits and corresponding costs. It is a concern to the extent
that you can control that, we certainly would encourage it. Even though you pay us,
we pay guaranteed benefits for life. So you give us one dollar ($1) today, I do not
know if it is really going to be accurate and adequate to pay for increasing life
expectancies and we do not know what the investment results are. The plan takes
the risk, even though the employer makes a significant contribution, the recipient,
the retiree gets a wonderful lifetime guarantee that we are all responsible for
shouldering. The projected funded ratio from this 2018 on the left, it just shows again
that we are go to be fully funded in 2043. We would be one hundred percent (100%)
fully funded if all of the assumptions are met.
This next slide shows the sensitivity of investment returns. I suggested that
they had the biggest impact on funding period. If we get our seven percent (7%)
investment return, we will be fully funded in 2043. If we were only to assume six
percent (6%) over that period, it would take us until 2051 to get fully funded. If we
only earned five percent (5%), actually it would take us to 2075. The sooner we can
get the full funding the better because every year subsequently multiple billions of
additional dollars that you have to pay on the unfunded actuarially accrued liability.
The longer you defer paying that mortgage the more you pay in interest. The sooner
we can address that the better. Next year's outlook is getting closer to the end of the
fiscal year, but because of some volatility in the market, and in December we began
to do some illustrations what will happen if we do not get our seven percent (7%) this
year. I think, and I will not spend a lot of time, but what I think it illustrates is it
will not be big changes in the system if we were to miss our earnings assumption
which shows here seven percent (7%), two percent (2%), zero (0), even negative
two (-2) and five percent (5%). Funding ratio does not change appreciable from
fifty- five (55) down to fifty-four (54). The funding period does not change appreciably
next year if we have zero (0), we would still be at twenty-five (25). It is the long-term
that really matters. Short-term we can endure the volatility and longer term would
have a deleterious effect on the funding period of the organization. You know,
December was one of the worst Decembers in market history, I think, in several
decades. January was one of the best Januaries in several decades. The losses that
were incurred have been recouped in January and February and what is going to
happen in the rest of the fiscal year, your guess is better than mine probably. We do
an actuarial stress test each year. The legislature requires to show how the plan will
perform in adverse economic environments. If we were to realize our assumption, if
we were to earn twenty percent (20%) less and if assets were to drop twenty percent
(20%). We would have earned two percent (2%) less, so five percent (5%) for twenty
(20)years and a whole variety of scenarios. It shows that our plan is sustainable even
in these adverse economic scenarios. It cost a lot more money, but it would not be at
risk of running out of money. It would not be in a net amortization circumstance
where we could not pay benefits to our members. That is an important outcome and
one view of the system that is important to the public and the legislature to determine
that the plan is sustainable. If we are at-risk of running out of money, then we need
to be looking at alternatives and doing it right now. The ERS legislation is not a big
legislative year for us, but often times, Bills are implemented that do affect us. We
COUNCIL MEETING 12 MARCH 13, 2019
routinely find ourselves in a situation where we are trying to recover overpayments
primarily due to death benefits quite frankly. We are paying retirement benefits and
sometimes our members ultimately all do die, but we have to be notified and we have
a number of services that we employ professional services, but they always are at a
lag in some ways. We have between two (2) and six hundred thousand dollars
($600,000) a year in overpayments. We recover about fifty-five percent (55%) of them.
We are trying to strengthen our ability to recover those overpayments that stipulate
those are debts owed and due to the ERS. There is a bill that would just clarify that
and help us to recoup those benefits that are paid out improperly. There are not
owned or rightfully to be received by the individual. Sometimes there are family
members and others who keep getting the checks and say I did not know or whatever
the case may be. We are trying to implement systems to reduce that. There is a bill
called felony forfeiture and we did not introduce it, but it would allow a court to order
the reduction and loss of some or all of the person's pension benefit if the individual
were convicted of a felony related to their work. If they were working for the County
and embezzled money from the County, there would be a capacity for the County to
sue and to have that individual's pension forfeited. It would not impact the
beneficiaries. Their spouses would be eligible for benefit is post the death of the
individual that would not be impacted. There was the uniform freedom of information
act that talks about deliberative process. The court really ruled that some of the
confidential papers that were not subject to disclosure in fact are. There is a bill that
was attempting to protect certain sort of formularize discussions. We think that is
important and for a variety of organizations, but they are certain exceptions for the
retirement plan as it relates to our investments. Many of the investments, ultimately
are public, but as you are making the decision as to what to invest in and how much
to invest in, you do not want to telegraph that in advance of the actual decision. Often
times we are deciding that we do not like a particular investment and we have
reasons why, those are things we do not want to publish either because they can hurt
organizations and they can result in litigation if we cannot prove the validity of our
views. If we think that the management is not performing well, you do not want to
publish that in the Star Advertiser and have someone say you maligned their
corporate reputation. So there are some exceptions that we already enjoy. There is
a Hawai`i retirement savings plan. I think it would be focused on profit private sector
employers and small employers. It would create a savings opportunity for their
employees. It is sort of a defined contribution plan along with payroll deduction.
Some employer match, if the employer wanted to but it is attempting to create an
additional savings opportunity for private sector employees. It is a real crisis around
the country. The overwhelming majority of workers do not have any money set aside
for retirement. Our members are really properly, rightfully benefited, because it is
going to be a horrendous circumstance when people are not able to support
themselves in retirement. They are going to be drawing on the public services,
whether it is welfare, or food banks, or you name it. These are important benefits
that are earned and when they are managed properly, it has a significant benefit to
the State. I guess we are at that point where the formal presentation is concluded,
but I am certainly open to respond to questions that you have and I really appreciate
you allowing me the opportunity to present.
(Councilmember Euslin was noted as not present.)
COUNCIL MEETING 13 MARCH 13, 2019
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Thank you, Tom. Thank you for that great
presentation. We have you almost every year and it is a pleasure that you come down
to kind of explain the situation on the ERS. I mean, every year we go through budget
and we try to tell people our costs are going up. A lot of times, I do not know if the
public believes us, but you have a presentation like this that shows what is actually
happening with our employees costs and salaries. I think it is just validation that
yes, there are increasing costs every year and it is very difficult to keep a budget flat.
(Councilmember Evslin was noted as present.)
Mr. Williams: You are absolutely correct, Chair.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Thank you for all of the clarification; I think
you added to your presentation from last year and I think it was a great presentation.
Mr. Williams: Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: So we will open up for questions. If you are
able to say the page number and the question, or if it is just a general question.
Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Williams, thank
you for being here again. I really appreciate it. It is always informative and we
always learn more each time you come about this hill that we have to climb. I think
for the public to know, it is one of the biggest expenses that we actually have to look
forward to every year in balancing our budget and why we are focused so much on it.
Last year we were able to get a presentation from the Grassroot Institute of Hawai`i.
Mr. Williams: Yes.
Councilmember Chock: I am sure you are very familiar with their
work and their presentation was "How to resolve Kauai Pension Debt Crisis." They
pointed out a lot of the information that you shared today, all the way through spiking
and so forth, and how the current system works. What I wanted to do is sort of move
us towards some of what they are asking to look at terms of best practices. I will ask
if you could pull up the last page of the presentation. I will just read them out here
for the context for the questions I am asking. The first bullet item talks about
creating a new pension plan that manage costs. I am not sure if this is feasible or to
what direction we are looking at this? My understanding as a defined benefit plan,
there are other options such as defined contribution, hybrid, and so forth; cash
balance. What was particularly interesting to me was that Wisconsin under the same
kind of plan define benefit is funding at ninety-nine percent (99%). Which I think is
incredible, but they have some strict guidelines, I think, as well, that they are
implementing. One of which is a cap on benefits at sixty-five percent (65%) of their
pay and also adjustable contribution rates over time. So that is my first question is
really about is that something we should be looking at in terms of the future and how
it is? We know that those before 2012 are exempt. Let us take that question first?
COUNCIL MEETING 14 MARCH 13, 2019
Mr. Williams: That is a long answer. Well, I can give you a
long answer to that one question. I would just like to say that the plan that we have
got, a defined benefit plan, is widely viewed for State workers as one of the preferred
vehicles for providing retirement income. I mean it shares the mortality risks, it has
professional investment, we get lower costs, higher returns. So dollar-for-dollar, a
defined benefit plan for a stable population is clearly the best plan. If you are a
teacher population and you have to move from State-to-State to State, often times
defined contribution plans. There are all varieties of versions in between those two.
The Wisconsin plan is one of the best plans, I think, in the nation. You mentioned
that they are almost one hundred percent (100%) funded and they are constantly at
that level. What they have is something called cost sharing and benefit sharing.
When the plan does well, the members do better. When the plan does less well, the
members do less well. In other words, their benefits above a floor, they have a more
modest guarantee as a base; then they say to the extent we earn more, we give it to
the members, but to the extent we do not earn that, we lower their benefit back to
that floor. Everybody can participate in the upside, but they also participate in the
down to a floor. That gives them some cost control. Also for example, the cost of
living adjustments. Prior to the mid-70's, these retirement plans did not have cost of
living adjustments. Their inflation was not a big issue, but as inflation became a
concern, particularly for retirees, they added post-retirement adjustments. Every
year you get a two and a half percent (2.50%) increase in your benefit. That is
extraordinarily expensive additional benefit. Many plans in response to the great
financial crisis and these unfunded liabilities, have taken to reduce or even eliminate
the cost of living benefit, because they say we cannot afford it. It is probably twenty
percent (20%) to thirty percent (30%) of the liability result from our having to increase
that benefit every year in retirement, you know, for the lifetime of our members. A
lot of plans, say that is not a core benefit and we cannot afford it so they have adjusted
that. Wisconsin does that. So to the extent that the plan can afford it, they pay it. If
they cannot afford it, they do not. Our plan does not have that kind of built-in
flexibility, but if we wanted to, we could. It would apply to new members going
forward. So yes, we can look at defined contribution, hybrid plans, cost-sharing plans
and we do, quite frankly internally, but it is controlled by the legislature in terms of
plan design.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you. I appreciate that. So along the
lines of trying to get the best out of even the current plan that we have, it sounds like
the focus really needs to be on amending the constitution in order to allow some of
this. One of the suggested practices is cap benefits at reasonable levels to protect
against pension spiking. Instead of using Cost of Living Adjustment (COLA), using
the minimum benefit level with investment (Inaudible) like you suggested is being
done with Wisconsin. I wanted to know in terms of these potential changes, where
they are at the State-level? Can we look forward to those kinds of reform in the
future that would help us really start to level the playing field?
Mr. Williams: I would say those types of reforms are
available. They are weighed by the Board all the time. We are constantly asking our
actuaries to determine the cost and therefore, the savings impact of reducing
overtime, eliminating overtime, conversion of sick leave to service. We know the
impacts of all of those things, but it really requires a legislative initiative to make
COUNCIL MEETING 15 MARCH 13, 2019
those changes. Unlike the Wisconsin Board that determines what the benefit
structure is going to be, our legislature determines that. An absent push of legislative
initiative, we cannot make those changes. Our position has largely been to educate,
to calculate the costs, to describe the options, but as a political matter, we have not
pushed one or the other. We would like to see overtime eliminated going forward for
all employees and conversion of sick leave. We would like to see those things and we
have communicated that desire because it reduces the liabilities, another element of
insurance, but it requires a legislative initiative to make that happen.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you. I think this is what some of those
practices are. I think it is exactly what you said, the last bullet point is where you
folks are focused your time and energy in providing assumptions and being able to
adjust accordingly. Therefore, I really appreciate the work that your office is doing
in trying to make those adjustments.
Mr. Williams Thank you.
Councilmember Chock: What I am hearing you say is really on the
legislature and we really need to focus on some of these other reform pieces.
Mr. Williams: That is correct.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you very much.
Mr. Williams: Thank you, Sir.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you for your presentation. In looking
at page 20 of the presentation and it shows Act 153, 2012 Pension Spiking. I am very
disappointed in our County's performance with lack of control by the Administration
of spiking. Twenty-one (21) employees costing us two million four hundred thousand
dollars ($2,400,000) in 2018?
Mr. Williams: That is correct.
Councilmember Kagawa: That is not only in one-year, but to be
continued?
Mr. Williams: Well no. That is your one-time contribution
for those twenty-one (21) employees. That is significant. You do not have to do two
million four hundred thousand dollars ($2,400,000) each year. You give us two
million four hundred dollars ($2,400,000) for 2018, and that covers the cost of these
twenty-one (21). Next year, we are going to see if there are other employees who
spike and that will be a different bill depending upon the results. I mean how many
of employees? How big their salary grew above the base? Also, as I shared with the
Chair a little earlier, the factors that are used to determine what this cost is, new
factors become effective July 1 of 2019, that increase the cost of spiking by about
twenty percent (20%). That is because, again, we have not implemented for spiking
_
COUNCIL MEETING 16 MARCH 13, 2019
the new mortality tables and the earnings assumptions. These are the old
assumptions that apply to spiking, not to the broad evaluation. They have deferred
the effective date to allow the County some time. You need to be awear that the new
factors of this person is going to live "x" amount of years and this is how much we are
going to pay them. Those new factors become effective next July. That means your
costs that was two point four (2.4) would go up by two hundred and forty (240) but
would go up by twenty percent (20%).
Councilmember Kagawa: I guess what I am trying to say to give
you a hypothetical example. You have a Fire Captain for Kaua`i County maybe
making ninety thousand dollars ($90,000) a year. In his last three (3) years, racking
up fifty thousand dollars ($50,000) a year. Now you have a high three (3) years at
one hundred forty thousand dollars ($140,000). Right?
Mr. Williams: That is correct.
Councilmember Kagawa: Our lack of control of that overtime, if we
could have kept it to maybe ten thousand dollars ($10,000) a year, we would have
saved forty thousand dollars ($40,000) per year on these folks high three (3). Our
lack of control at the management-level is causing all of this damage. I mean, this
person is going to be making forty thousand dollars ($40,000) more per year over life
of his retirement in perpetuity until he dies.
Mr. Williams: Or their survivor. That is correct.
•
Councilmember Kagawa: The point I am trying to make is the damage
from spiking is going to hurt us in our yearly contributions and in everything. I am
not saying let us not spend overtime in Police and Fire. If we have a fire up in Koke`e
or some kind of crisis, let us go for it. However, when we have a community meeting
in Kilauea with a small group of people, I do not expect to see our Assistant Chief out
there getting paid overtime for that. I am saying controllable kind of things that just
irritates me. It is like saying, "We are going to enforce the law," but on their end, if
you allow these types of overtimes, that is just like fraud. So we are going to enforce
the law here, but we will do fraud on our own. I mean to me, it is out of hand. Let us
look at this other page, this one is bad. Page 14. Page 14 shows a graph of the red.
The Police and Fire compared to all the rest; the teachers and the general. I heard
the Fire contract is coming up? They are going to be asking for a bonus of eighteen
hundred dollars ($1,800) per year. If you look at the red and how far ahead the red
has been for every year. What is going on with the negotiations? Do they look at
these things? I can see for Police. Police we have a shortage problem. Maybe to
attract...but Fire, we have no problem at all. We have a waiting list of twenty-five
hundred (2,500) I believe. There is no shortage and yet we let the red go that far
ahead of everybody else, I want to know what is the State...there is no sense you
folks are raising more money if you folks are allowing all these types of things to
continue. It is like you are paying...you know? You are racking up a bill of twenty
dollars ($20) and you take five dollars ($5), you just keep...
(Councilmember Chock was noted as not present.)
COUNCIL MEETING 17 MARCH 13, 2019
Mr. Williams: Well, Chair, Councilmembers, as you know
we are reporting the results. We do not control the salary as you know. That is a
result of the negotiations, which I have been asked this year in particular to
participate in those discussions. Just as an expert witness and the same chart you
are looking at is the chart that I share with the arbitrators on both sides of the table.
The impacts on the retirement system, I provide that information but how one
responds to it is a business and political decision that quite frankly is in your camp.
Councilmember Kagawa: We are broke. The State is broke. We are not
like the Federal. We cannot print money. Twenty-three trillion dollars
($23,000,000,000,000).
(Councilmember Chock was noted as present.)
Councilmember Kagawa: They can print money for their problems with
retirement benefits because they are able to print money. We are State and County.
We have to pay our bills. When I see things like that, I think it is fixable by getting
suggestions from you folks. Like hey, Police and Fire, look at all the percentages of
the contributions. Perhaps you need to freeze their salaries for a little while? If you
look at all the red, they are already way above everybody else. You know? Let us get
a handle on our situation before granting and we continue to let this reds keep going.
That is the only way I think we can fix it.
Mr. Williams: I certainly am sensitive to and share your
concern. It is difficult for me to fully interpret whether these numbers are
appropriate or not. I mean, they are reflected in the reality. I do not know if people
forego...you know how their compensation relates to national averages, peers, or
whether people forego contribution and salary increases for some number of years
and we are trying to make up? I do not know the history behind these, but that is the
result. I mean, these are the increases year-by-year. We do not make judgments as
to whether they were warranted or not.
Councilmember Kagawa: I am a school teacher and the school teacher
lines are accurate. Those percentages are accurate to my paychecks. Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Thanks Tom. You mention earlier you are not
part of the arbitration now or they just finally allowed you to be part of the arbitration
this year?
Mr. Williams: Well, Chair. It is not something that I asked
for. Anyway, I was invited to present as an expert witness and so I did. There is
some additional arbitration, the Firefighters have had an arbitration. I do not know
the result of it. I did testify and provided a lot of information here. I believe in the
past my predecessor Wesley Machida who was head of Budget and Finance and also
Director of the ERS, has been invited to present. He generally would present on the
full State picture, State revenues, more broadly. The piece that I have been asked to
present on is the ERS piece. There is obviously a health care piece, the Hawai`i
Employer- Union Health Benefits Trust Fund (EUTF) that is comparable in some
respects to what we have here.
COUNCIL MEETING 18 MARCH 13, 2019
Council Chair Kaneshiro: I am glad you are going to be part of it and I
welcome you to go and join. As the County goes through these negotiations, the
County is looking at not just the salary of an employee, but the total cost of the County
•
to pay for an employee. As you can see, and as you know, our portion... it seems like
most of the burden falls on the employers to pay increased retirement costs, pay
spiking costs, so the cost of an employee is definitely rising. Not looking at their
salary, their salary is probably rising but the cost of an employee on the retirement
side and other benefits, is definitely rising every year.
Mr. Williams: Chair, I know you are fully awear of the
Counties are the primary employers for the Police and Fire. So the State has
relatively few members in that category.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Yes, I think the State has more votes than all
of us probably. In regards to spiking, and Councilmember Kagawa's question earlier,
is there a way for us to address the employee contribution? Right now we are stuck
with the burden that employees pre-2012 have the ability to spike and pay a lower
employee contribution than employees post-2012, yet the post-2012 employees are
not going to be able to enjoy spiking benefit and they are paying a higher amount.
The post-2012 employees are almost subsidizing pre-2012 employees. We pay a big
difference and we see the increase in our ERS portion. I think it was twenty-five
percent (25%) all the way up to forty-one percent (41%) of the salary we are going to
be at. Is there a way we can go back and change and make it a little more even?
Mr. Williams: Chair. Legislatively, everything is alterable.
To change employee contribution levels attributable to spiking, that is possible, but
it would be a legislative initiative. It is not possible for the ERS to arbitrarily
implement or require, but legislatively we could tell you what that cost and charge
need be.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: In your future arbitrations, could you bring
that up to be a little fairer?
Council Chair Kaneshiro: We have Councilmember Brun with a
follow-up question.
Councilmember Brun: Follow-up question on slide 20. Of the
twenty-one (21) employees. Do you know if there are twenty-one (21) employees that
are spiking right now?
Mr. Williams: That is correct.
Councilmember Brun: Was that brought up to the Administration?
Council Chair Kaneshiro: These are employees that have spiked and we
got the bill for. They are retired.
Councilmember Brun: They have retired.
COUNCIL MEETING 19 MARCH 13, 2019
Council Chair Kaneshiro: This was the actual bill we got for retirement.
Councilmember Brun: Has this been brought up to the
Administration? A lot of their managers are still working.
Mr. Williams: Councilmember. I have not had that direct
conversation and I believe the Administration has access to this information. To the
extent one wants to have that conversation, I would be willing to do it. We do not
proactively go out and identify the spikers, and recommend responses to it. If we get
asked as we have been here to identify the individuals and the amounts, we do that.
So to the extent an employer and Administration wants that conversation, we are
willing to have it.
Councilmember Brun: So for us, I mean, could we request that
information and work with the Administration or is that out of our boundaries?
Would we have to have an audit to get this done?
Council Chair Kaneshiro: We do have the numbers and I was going to
share it in a future meeting.
Councilmember Brun: Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: We saw numbers of...not mentioning the
employee, but three hundred thousand dollars ($300,000) for an employee for spiking.
Those type of numbers.
Councilmember Brun: For the employees that retire, we still got...so
who does not know if it is still continuing if we have we have the same department
heads.
Mr. Williams: Chair. The spiking bill that you get really
understates the cost to the ERS. We do not even look at spiking until it is more than
ten percent (10%) above their final average compensation. So the first ten percent
(10%) is almost...you cannot call it "free" because we pay for it. It is the egregious
spiking that is above the ten percent (10%) is what is reflected in the numbers that
you are looking at there.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: I will share the calculations. We have them.
Our Finance Director put it together for us. That is going to be in a future meeting.
I will go to Councilmember Cowden first.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: Yes. Can I have slide 14 up again? What I
would like to look at Police and Fire, can we have it such it is separated Police from
Fire? We have opposite dynamics as Councilmember Kagawa mentioned. One is
really understaffed and the other one is fully staffed with many many more waiting
to go. I would be really curious to see that split out because if the majority of that
COUNCIL MEETING 20 MARCH 13, 2019
spike is Police, it is because we are working these men and women intensively. When
we have four (4) days in a row with fifteen hour a day workweeks, plus two (2) more
days that week, in my opinion, they deserve all that overtime. They are not doing it
in a wrongful space of heart. We are almost exploiting these people and we are
exhausting them from our force. I would really like to see the numbers split. If that
is something that we can possibly look at?
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Those numbers would be related to collective
bargaining and salaries. Tom is only responsible for their retirement package.
Councilmember Cowden: I understand, but somewhere we need to be
able to see it. When we are analyzing that as the specific problem that we need to
somehow collectively shift. I think we need to be conscious that we are not being
unfair to certain portion of what we are doing. The other thing on that page which
would be to me meaningful and I want to say thank you so much for this presentation.
Mr. Williams: You are very welcome.
Councilmember Cowden: I should have said that already because this
is very instructive for me. When I look at this, will we see this big change from 2012
to 2018, I know what would be helpful for me in that analysis, also, is to see maybe a
dotted line that shows the cost of living changes. The difference to be able to rent a
home in 2012 versus 2018 has really moved up egregiously, I believe. What we have
to bear in mind, when we are looking at how we are setting out these salaries is when
we are looking at this base pays, if we cannot hold on to people because they cannot
live. I would like to be able to see that if we are being worked? I see this whole group
coming up and we have just come away from a very big 2008 meltdown. So housing
costs went down and it is going up with that. Those are things that would be helpful
for me to know. I have a couple of questions that are sort of simple questions. On
page 2, when we see inactive non-retired members, does that mean that they will
eventually be able to utilize their retirement but they are just not old enough yet? Is
that what inactive non-retired members mean?
Mr. Williams: No, Councilmember. Inactive non-retired
would be individuals who are not vested, for example, if you required to have ten (10)
years of service, maybe they terminated with eight (8) years of service. They could
come back and earn two (2) more and become vested. Even if they are not vested, the
plan allows for a repayment or refund of employee contributions. So employee
contributions would be refundable to those individuals with earnings. In other words,
they are entitled to some level of benefit from the ERS.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay. Another real basic question. I am
seeing hybrid, hybrid of what? How it is a hybrid?
Mr. Williams: Okay that is probably a more difficult
question for me to answer as it occurred prior to my involvement with the ERS.
Generally there was, as I understand it, a plan that was non-contributory.
Councilmember Cowden: I see.
COUNCIL MEETING 21 MARCH 13, 2019
Mr. Williams: And then a follow-on plan with different
benefit features became a hybrid in which employers and employees began to
contribute. Most plans around the Country, hybrids are considered a combination of
a defined benefit, defined contribution or a cash balance plan. We do not have that
so-called hybrid. I believe the "hybrid" that is referred to here was when we moved
from non-contributory to a contributory format. Sherri, is that true?
SHERI KUNIOKA-VOLZ: That is true.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay thank you. I want to thank you. ERS
manages our fund, is that correct?
Mr. Williams: That is accurate.
Councilmember Cowden: You folks. I just cannot concentrate. I am
sorry. Sorry. I could not focus.
Councilmember Kagawa: Just look at him.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay, but I am trying to tune you out. I am
sorry, I just could not concentrate. So how is this assets...what are they mostly
primarily in?
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Councilmember Cowden: Is it mostly high-tech stocks or real-estate? I
am trying to anticipate when we are looking at what is coming out. What are we
mostly invested in?
Mr. Williams: Let me say that the entire investment
program, managers, the asset classes are all available online and on our website.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay.
Mr. Williams: You can see everything that we invest in. We
are highly diversified. It would be difficult to say "it is mostly in," but it is mostly in
stocks I would say probably about fifty-five percent (55%). Stocks vary significantly
from publically traded, private investments, international, emerging markets,
domestic, and to credit. It is broadly diversified. It is characterized related to risk.
Everything about our program is transparent and is online.
Councilmember Cowden: So it is right here on this website?
Mr. Williams: That is correct.
Councilmember Cowden: Thank you so much.
COUNCIL MEETING 22 MARCH 13, 2019
Council Chair Kaneshiro: I will follow-up on that. Were you asking the
Legislature if you could have a little more flexibility in the type of funds you are able
to invest in? Are you folks bound by the type of investments that you are able to do?
Mr. Williams: I think there are some fiduciary limitations on
what we can invest in. There are types of investments that we would not choose as a
retirement fund, but we have full latitude to invest. For example, I think historically
lots of pension funds used to limit their investment to just bonds, those are vestiges
of bygone era. Now that progressive plans generally have full latitude to invest in;
international stocks, private equity, and real-estate, (inaudible). We are not asking
for additional flexibility. We think we have what we need.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: So you do have the ability to diversify as much
as you need or want?
Mr. Williams: That is correct, Chair.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Thank you for all this information, and to my
colleagues for all their really good questions and your answers giving us even more
information. You mentioned a little something about skimming. Is that practice still
happening and by who?
Mr. Williams: Good question and I am pleased to tell you, no,
it does not continue. I believe it was 2005 it was legislatively precluded.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Great. I thought I heard you say that the
State has not supported our investment program as aggressively as needed. What do
you need?
Mr. Williams: Well, Councilmember, let me say that this is
my opinion, and they have...we perhaps have not pressed and educated the State as
to the importance of this investment component.
(Councilmember Euslin was noted as present.)
Mr. Williams: The State has been reasonably responsive to
us, but I think we have the responsibility of demonstrating to the State the cost of
our not investing in this investment program. I have been with the plan just over
three (3) years almost three and a half (3 %) years. We have been making some
significant reforms internal, operationally, and investment wise. We have hired a
new Chief Investment Officer, a very talented individual. We have a senior staff.
We have done some comparisons and surveys and we know that our staff relative to
our peers is well below their staffing levels. I do not want to blame the Legislature
for this. The Legislature controls our ability to hire and our budgets. In an ideal
circumstance, this is not just my view of it, but in an ideal circumstance, the Board
would control hiring and budgets so that we could hire as necessary in order to meet
our fiduciary obligations. We know that the portfolio requires certain skill sets. The
COUNCIL MEETING 23 MARCH 13, 2019
portfolio is dynamic and it grows in its complexity. Today, in order for us to hire
someone, we go through a biennial budget process that starts in the Fall with
conversations, when bills are introduce in January, and when the Fiscal Year begins
in July. Before you are able to hire, it is generally a year or two that you had the
need for the person. I do not want to blame the Legislature. I think we have to do a
better job of convincing the Legislature that it is a good and proper investment
because the returns are so significant that it would be unwise not to, quite frankly.
Councilmember Kuali`i: I never understood it to be as if you were
blaming the Legislature. It is just that people have to play a role in maybe moving
legislation to improve many things. I was just curious if there was something that
needed to be done.
Mr. Williams: Thank you for that query. Our Board is
considering as we speak a strategic investment plan that looks out four (4) to five (5)
years to see how the plan and portfolio has evolved from a plain vanilla to a version
two point zero (2.0) and will be a three point zero (3.0) in the near-future. Primarily
because private investments, which are more complex to assess and monitor are
becoming a bigger portion of the portfolio. As those things change, our support for
the portfolio needs to change. We need to make sure that it is not a gap. A gap
represents certain risks and we can mitigate those risks with the right tools, the right
resources, human, or otherwise.
Councilmember Kuali`i: My last question on slide 16 on the employer
contribution rates. It is very clear that it is going up every year and in July 1, 2020
it is forty-one percent (41%). How far forward do you project these? Do you already
have the projection for July 1, 2021 or 2022?
Mr. Williams: Councilmember, very good question. We are
projecting that once these contributions are finally reached in 2020, that they would
stay at that level. They would not be required to go higher for any period of time.
You know, obviously if markets tanked for ten (10) years in a row, we would have to
revisit contributions, benefits, or some combination thereof. We do not anticipate
that the contributions will have to increase. We cannot guarantee that they could
not because of these economic factors.
Councilmember Kuali`i: I am just looking at the one (1), two (2), three
(3), five (5) years' of data, so what did think on July 1st, 2016? The same thing that
it would not increase?
Mr. Williams: Well, if I understand your question. No, we
knew that it would increase and, in fact, we thought it should ideally increase to
forty-one percent (41%) on July 1st of 2016. You cannot digest that level of increase.
We worked with the legislature to phase the increase in. This was in contemplation
of your budgets and the State budgets. We knew we needed forty-one percent (41%)
ultimately back in 2016 when we did this. If we had those, it would get us to full
funding. We do not think that it is going to go above these levels and these are thirty
(30) year forecasts. We are looking out in the markets and actuarially for thirty (30)
years. The Legislature requires that our plan have a fiscal plan that funds it within
COUNCIL MEETING 24 MARCH 13, 2019
thirty (30) years. Our current plan is now at twenty-five (25) years where we would
be fully funded.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Evslin.
Councilmember Evslin: Thank you very much for coming today. I
appreciate you taking the time.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Your microphone.
Councilmember Evslin: Oh, sorry. I have a couple of questions.
Number one. Does the salary increases you showed for Police and Fire on page 14
does that include the cost of benefits? Also, related, do Police and Fire have higher
health insurance and life insurance costs because of the risks associated with their
professions?
Mr. Williams: The Police and Fire show just their salary. It
is their base pay, I would call it. The assumptions that we reflect are an
amalgamation of all of the increases for an individual. Promotion increases, step
increases, you know...and it is different for teachers versus Police and Fire. So we
put all these increases together and come up with a salary increase rate that looks at
the amalgamation of all of these things. They all do affect the benefit in the end. That
is not the cost of the benefit. It is not the cost of health care either. The ERS
fortunately is not responsible for the health care. It is the Employer Union Trust
Fund (EUTF) that manages that. There is a separate cost and unfunded liability
related to that. I believe that the State is now pre-funding health care. So that it,
too, will have a base and will be fully funded in a number of years. I do not know the
exact forecast for EUTF, but they are being funded, which is quite good. I think the
overwhelmingly or at least historically the municipalities or States did not pre-fund
their medical care. This is going to result in substantial savings longer-term by them
doing so but it is not reflected in our numbers that cost to benefits.
Councilmember Evslin: Thank you. How does our investment returns
compare to other States? Seven percent (7%) to me seems good. Is it good nationally?
Mr. Williams: Well, the seven percent (7%) is an assumed
investment return, and it is right...it is consistent with the downward trend that
public plans have been implementing. I would say we are probably with about sixty
percent (60%) to seventy percent (70%) of the funds that are all now down around
seven percent (7%). Ca1PERS is the largest fund in the nation is moving to seven
percent (7%). I think they are at seven point one percent (7.1%) but they are phasing
it in over time. There have a few plans that have lower assumption at six and three
quarter percent (6.75%) even six and one half percent (6.5%), but seven percent (7%)
is the trend. A few years ago eight percent (8%) was the assumption. I think one of
the slides that was from the Grassroots Institute suggest they use the proper
assumptions. The accurate assumptions. When you assume higher earnings than
you actually are going to get, it perceptively lowers the cost because you are going to
COUNCIL MEETING 25 MARCH 13, 2019
defray the cost by the hire earnings. If you do not realize that, you know at the end
of the day, the bill is the bill. You are deferring those costs to later generations. So
it is a conservative approach to use what you really actually think you are going to
get. We think that the seven percent (7%) is reasonable forward-looking. We are
doing an asset-liability study that will confirm that. We have started that process.
We think it is still very reasonable. Our performance is right in line with the public
pension funds more broadly. We are looking at our benchmarks to compare ourselves
to public pension funds and we want to look at over one billion dollars
($1,000,000,000). We want to also look at over ten billion dollars ($10,000,000,000)
and with complex portfolios. We have done reasonably well in the past, but it is how
we perform going forward. I am concerned we will not be able to continue that level
of performance if we do not keep pace with our competitors who are resourcing their
investment programs. It is very difficult to segregate and find the best investments.
These are not the average investments. The average investments give you the
average returns which is going to be less than what we are targeting here.
Councilmember Evslin: My understanding and I could be somewhat
mistaken, but in States like Illinois, is the example of a dire pension crisis, have used
floated bonds in times when the market is expanding to invest that as a way to
decrease their unfunded liabilities. Has that been considered as an option for Hawai`i
or is too risky?
Mr. Williams: Again, a very good question and this is the
approach called utilization of pension obligation bonds. People would buy bonds when
interest rates were, let us say four and one half percent (4.5%), five percent (5%) but
they think they will invest it and get eight percent (8%) or ten percent (10%). That
is ultimately resulting in a savings. It is not viewed as a widespread solution to an
unfunded pension crisis or situation. I know lots of instances in which this approach
has been used and has not worked out. In fact, it has resulted in additional costs.
Sometimes they are criticized because the offerers or the investment banks make
often times on these offerings ten million dollars ($10,000,000) and one hundred
million dollars ($100,000,000) in commissions et cetera. It is not the fix that it is
sometimes presented to represent. I know very few situations personally, in which
they have been successfully employed to improve the funding. I know of some
personally where they have not worked. I am well enough exposed with my
colleagues around the nation that this is not an option that is being widely embraced
or seen as the long-term solution. The long-term solution is actually just funding and
investment discipline.
Councilmember Evslin: How has the trend of active to inactive
employees affected our unfunded liability? How is that trend changing over time?
Mr. Williams: I am not sure I understand.
Councilmember Evslin: The ratio, the number of retirees compared to
the number of active workers?
Mr. Williams: Well, again, the number of retirees are
growing, as we mentioned forty-eight thousand (48,000) versus sixty-six thousand
COUNCIL MEETING 26 MARCH 13, 2019
(66,000)...sixty-eight thousand (68,000) active employees. We are in pretty good
shape right now. What we look at is net cash flow, and we are net cash flow negative
as it relates today until we pay out more in benefits than we get in contributions from
employers and employees. If that were the only source of income, we would be forced
to liquidate certain investments. Investment earnings make up the difference. The
increase contributions that employers are making will provide even a further cushion.
We are not at-risk of being cash flow negative, because of a disproportionate number
of retirees. I mentioned earlier, if fourteen thousand (14,000) of our employees were
to retire today, it would change that situation pretty dramatically. There is no
practical demographic reason why they all would. There is, as you alluded to, a
correlation between the numbers of retirees and actives. That is a circumstance that
applies to our Social Security situation where the people, the numbers of people
supporting the retirees are...the ratio is declining. It is almost every worker is
supporting a retiree. We are not there and when we run these metrics we are in good
shape. The rating agencies do not see any stress on our fund that results from that.
Councilmember Evslin: So are we pretty stable then as far that ratio
goes?
Mr. Williams: Yes.
Councilmember Evslin: Do you know how the County of Kaua`i has
done compared to other Counties as far as the number of spiking incidents relative to
our government base?
Mr. Williams: I think we do have charts. I have charts that
look at every employer. I do not know if you are better or worse? There are larger
employers. For example, I think I have a chart here, I hope I can find it really quickly.
For example, in 2018 the total spiking cost was thirty-one million four hundred and
eighty thousand dollars ($31,480,000). You folks paid two million four hundred
thousand dollars ($2,400,000). Two (2) four (4) twenty-four (24). The State paid
eleven million one hundred seventeen thousand dollars ($11,117,000). City and
County of Honolulu something comparable to that. So you know, I am sure you feel
the pain of it, but by no means the largest spiker for example we have again, I do not
want to highlight any particular entity in this public forum, but yours are twenty-one
(21) individuals, we have one with ninety-eight (98), and another with two hundred
sixty-three (263) individuals. I do not know if that gives you comfort or not, but you
are not the largest number nor largest dollars.
Councilmember Evslin: My final question, could you walk through a
little bit how that...you did earlier but I did not understand it very well. The
one-time payment for spiking. On page 20. It is a one-time payment of two million
four hundred thousand dollars ($2,400,000), which is one hundred fifteen thousand
dollars ($115,000) per employee, but that number per employee seems to drastically
change over the years. Is that the only one-time cost associated or is there ongoing
expenses for these?
Mr. Williams: Councilmember, the numbers of spikers and
the costs varies year-to-year because the salaries that are represented by these
COUNCIL MEETING 27 MARCH 13, 2019
spikers changes. It could be one hundred thousand dollar ($100,000) salary; it could
be spiking on a fifty thousand dollars ($50,000) salary. The relative cost will shift
dependent upon the population who is actually spiking. It does not have to be the
highest-compensated individual who spikes. It could be someone at a
mid-compensation level and that mix is different every year. Who is retiring that
year? If it is all highly-compensated individuals, you will get a much higher spiking
number and bill than if there was lower-compensation involved.
Councilmember Evslin: What about the long-term payments
associated with that?
Mr. Williams: There is a one-time payment. You are making
a one-time payment every year for a new group of people. It is our effort to determine
the net present value, the cost of providing this group of twenty-one (21) people, the
additional benefit, that they are incurring over the rest of their lifetime. Using
actuarial factors, mortality tables, and earnings assumptions. We are going to earn
seven percent (7%), you are going to live this number of years, and we will pay you
"x" number of dollars. How much does it cost to generate that today at net present
value and that is your bill. You give us that. If all of the assumptions are borne out,
we will have realized that total liability at the end of their retirements.
Councilmember Evslin: Okay, that makes sense. Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: One-time spiking cost is calculated when an
employee retires, they calculate out their total liability for the rest of their life based
on their actuarial and a calculation, and that is the bill we get to clear that employee
out. As you can see, those are some big bills. As people retire, they are going to redo
the calculation with these new employees. We have no clue what those bills will be
because we do not know who will retire, when they are going to retire, and what their
spiking is going to be? It is very unpredictable. Councilmember Brun.
Councilmember Brun: No. Not right now.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Any further questions? I know Tom has to
catch his flight. I know we could probably talk about this all day. We can E-mail him
questions, follow-up questions if we need. I know there will probably be more
conversations on ERS during the budget. Any further questions for Tom?
Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: I just wanted to thank you for coming and
sharing with us. I came across as being kind of aggressive, but this is such a big
problem. I do not think it can be caught up on the financial end by innovation or
what have you. I think we need leadership and management in each respective
County and State that will cut out the unnecessary things. I think it is doable. To
sit here and say it is not happening or whatever, look at the reports, look at the
high-ranking officials that are retiring. Look at their overtime totals. There are
problems. To say there are not problems is really being unrealistic. There are
problems. This is why we have the report here. It is printed on the report that we
have problems. Thank you and we will see more of you hopefully, with better news.
COUNCIL MEETING 28 MARCH 13, 2019
Council Chair Kaneshiro: He is just reporting what it is. He has no
control over the salaries. If the salaries increase and mismanagement, all he is saying
•
there is going to be a higher bill for ERS. That is all that they can control. Their
main control is how all our investments are doing. That is one of the biggest things
to our ERS. Any further questions? I have a question I ask every year, in your
opinion, if we were to split...and it comes down to fairness. If we were to split our
general employees from teachers, who we see have a longer life expectancy, would the
County benefit from that? Obviously, it is complicated based on how many employees
you have. If teachers are living longer, we have zero teacher employees, but yet, our
general employees, Hawai`i Government Employees Association (HGEA) and United
Public Workers (UPW) are all calculated based on the longer life of a teacher. Would
the County be in a better or worse position if we tried to ask and split from teachers?
Mr. Williams: It is a very difficult question to answer,
because teachers in general live longer than most other employee groups around the
country. I know it is true here as well. So the longer you live, the longer you pay.
Also, teachers in some instances are not compensated, as well as certain others. It
just depends. It is tough to answer that with any specificity. Just longevity alone
you would say yes, you would benefit because you have to pay them longer and I do
not have any teachers. We have not broken out the teachers and the way our plan
was developed, some States have separate plans for almost every groups. It is a
separate judges plan, a separate Legislative, a separate teachers, a separate Police, •
separate Fire, you know...Park Rangers. There are some plans that keep the liability,
segregate each one of them, so they are paying exactly the cost. The State did not
elect to go that route and it has a so-called cost-sharing plan. So all of the... it is just
a soup. It is like all the liabilities and the contributions are pooled together. It is a
single cost for Police and Fire and for general employees. So it is tough to answer
with real specificity.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: That would be a legislative change, if we want
to split them off?
Mr. Williams: Absolutely. That is correct.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Thank you. Any further questions from the
members? If not, thank you, Tom.
Mr. Williams: Chair, I would just tell you how much I
appreciate the invitation to be here, your questions and your time. I would come back
at any time you wish. Thank you very much.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Thank you. With that, we will take public
testimony. We have one person signed up.
SCOTT K. SATO, Deputy County Clerk: We have one registered speaker,
Debra Kekaualua.
COUNCIL MEETING 29 MARCH 13, 2019
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Debra, you know the routine with the light
and everything.
DEBRA KEKAUALUA: Aloha, folks. Hello everyone. For the record
Debra Kekaualua. Specifically, I wanted to make mention about the Emergency
Medical Services (EMS), Fire, County Bus. In 1972, I went to Kaua`i Community
College, Registered Nursing (RN) Program and I got my EMT, MICT licensing. When
we were dispatched, we never had anyone but the Army wagon and the crew and the
crew that was in the wagon. You know, people...we would go out and pick up people
and bring them to the Wilcox Emergency Room. Nowadays, if EMS gets called out,
there is a whole slew of firemen that go up; both the big and small fireman trucks.
They follow the ambulance. We never had that? Consequently, that is why the red
line went up so high. Everybody that is involved and I have talked to firemen about
this issue and asked why do you need so many people if it is not a fire? If it is just a
medical emergency, why are these two (2) fire trucks, all of the drivers, and the people
that are with the crew, why are they there if they are not there to put out a fire? The
one fireman that I keep bucking with this is...he says, "How would you feel if we did
not go up the hill and then my house is on fire and they had go back down to the base
yard and pick up the big machine?" I asked, "How often does that happen?" He says,
"rare to never." You know? They are on medical emergency so there should be an
ambulance, maybe a police officer, and anybody can start Cardio-Pulmonary
Resuscitation (CPR) under those two folks. They consistently send the up the big
and little machines. How expensive is that? Every call. Okay. I worked in the
hospital. I worked as an ambulance driver and worked for The Kaua`i Bus, and the
time that The Kaua`i Bus was growing, we had nine (9) passenger vans that we would
use for our Paratransit. Now we have these big buses that may be carry one (1) or
two (2) people, maybe, consistently maybe. Yet, everybody is out there buying these
big old buses and what kind of a footprint does that leave? Not to mention there is
so much activity and I worked for eight (8) months at The Kaua`i Bus, because I knew
too much or asked I asked too many questions of the then the Director, I had a one
hundred percent (100%) driving record, I have my Commercial Driver's
License (CDL), I was one (1) of three (3) ladies that had CDL, and eventually all three
(3) of us were terminated.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: That is your first three (3) minutes. I am
going to see if there is anyone else in the audience that wants to testify. You are able
to come back again for another three (3) minutes, Debra.
Ms. Kekaualua Okay.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Matt.
MATTHEW BERNABE: Good morning everybody. Matt Bernabe, for
the record. You know, I like what Councilmember Kagawa said. We need to do better,
we have to manage better, and there is a simple way to say this. A professional way
to say this. The County and the State needs to operate on best practice. We currently
operate on past practice. That is a real thing. Past practice is a real thing. If we do
not convert and operate on best practice, we are never going to fix this financial
problem. It reminds me of parents that are enablers that keep giving that crack
COUNCIL MEETING 30 MARCH 13, 2019
addicts...you folks being the crack addicts, you and the State, we keep giving you
folks money. Later I am going to testify on roads and I will bring this to a point.
Until you folks start operating better, none of this is going to get fixed. The fact is
that the rail is a great example. We, the County of Kaua`i, had to increase our taxes
which we still do not get a service for that tax, just because they cannot balance their
budget, their books, and their overspending. They are all "messed up." We know
what that mean. Imagine if you folks are running...what if Grove Farm ran all
"messed up?" What would your company do if they ran like us? Go ahead, I want the
answer. They would not. They do not. When I ran for office, I talked to a lot of
Human Resources people, people that work in Human Resources, hotels and banks.
You know they would not take this job? What it takes to make us right none of you
folks are willing to do. Not Derek Kawakami, not the past mayor, and I am sure some
of you want to but you do not have the power to literally go and convert every
department to best practice. There is a few that operate with best practice and that
is only because they have to. We got fined for an employee trying to do best practice
because his truck with overloaded traveling from Princeville? Where are the weight
stations? That would be best practice. Our roads are being destroyed because we
are overweighting vehicles, because we do not have weight stations. I work dump
truck on the North Shore. I saw the boulders they hauled from Waimea to Hanalei
Bridge. I guarantee you it was overweight. Where is best practice? Until we run on
best practice, you will never solve this problem. That is the discussion that you need.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Anyone else in the audience wishing to
testify? Just state your name for the record. You have three (3) minutes. The light
will be green when you have thirty (30) seconds it will turn yellow and when your
three (3) minutes is up, it will turn red.
TREVOR ASHWORTH: For the record, my name is Trevor Ashworth.
Thank you for the time today. I echo the sentiment round best practice and we talk
about the spiking and there were a lot of questions about the final three (3) years and
are we managing effectively? Best practice is also how are we going to be paying for
these costs? One of those ways is to get funds in earlier into the County in order to
be earning interest. I take our recent property tax assessments that were due at the
end of February, and I was on the phone with that department yesterday, because it
is been nearly a month and my check still has not been cleared. They have said they
have over five thousand (5,000) checks that they have not been able to deposit. Five
thousand (5,000). Let us say on average two thousand dollars ($2,000) for a month
of interest that we have foregone. That is just on what has been sitting there now a
month past due. Every single week for the last month, I have been calling to
understand why that check that normally clears has not cleared? The have said they
understaffed, that they have system problems, and manual processes. So we have
got to get to addressing those best practices because where we talked about the two
million four hundred thousand dollars ($2,400,000) in spikes in 2018, interest alone
in getting any income into the County of which real property is the biggest source of
income for this County, getting that in, getting that invested, whether that is just in
simple treasury bonds or what have you that is going help pay for these spikes. I
definitely support looking at those best practices. Maybe we are going to talk about
it and I can come back later in the agenda when we talk about what is going on in
finance. The last meeting I was at, the fact that we have not done bank reconciliation
COUNCIL MEETING 31 MARCH 13, 2019
which is the most basic financial obligation since November of 2017. Maybe we are
caught up now? I do not know? We have got to get on top of our financial house or
our bond rating will go down and these pension liability cost will continue to eat away
at the ability for this County and the rest of the Counties across the State to do other
things. That is all.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: We do not have another agenda item with
finance involved, but I do know that the treasury accounts are reconciled now.
Thanks.
Mr. Ashworth: Like I said, I talked to the office yesterday,
inquiring why my payment had not been cashed and they had over five thousand
(5,000)just sitting there and that was just a rough estimate and it has been nearly a
month.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: This is only to your reconciliation question.
Anyone else in the audience wishing to testify? Seeing none, Debra. Let us keep it
to the ERS. I know you were talking about management and overtime, which is ERS.
Ms. Kekaualua: Thank you.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Ms. Kekaualua: I really do not have much more to say on that
issue other than I would hope that everybody would wake up and smell the Kaua`i
coffee. There has been so many times that...because I worked for The Kaua`i Bus,
because I am an observer and having do with this paratransit and every time I see a
paratransit there is never more than one (1) or two (2) people. That is it, period.
They are driving an eight (8) wheeler, you know, big footprint. That should never
have happened. Yet, the powers that be, stuck it right up our noses and down our
throats and it is the same with the Fire Department.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present.)
Ms. Kekaualua: It is the same with every one of the people
that are EMS related. There are spending so much...you could be saving so much
money by putting down some rules that if it is a EMS call, that only EMS and a police
officer, period. Do not be bringing up those big trucks. It does not make sense unless
there is a fire. Common folks. It does not take rocket science to understand that it
is an over expenditure. People are getting hired. Yes, we need teachers more than
anything else. These teachers are the ones that are supposed to get the one hundred
fifty thousand dollars ($150,000) a year income, not the firemen. The firemen, what
do they do? They sleep and watch television all day long. Maybe they are called out
a few times you know, it just does not make any sense anymore. I am not scolding
you folks, because I am just as much, but I want it to be brought out. It is got to be.
People like our Human Resources for the Kaua`i County, that person used to be the
Kaua`i Bus Director. Why is it that she is now a Human Resources Director?
Anybody with last name Kekaualua or Hawaiian that is why you do not see
Hawaiians being hired for the County. You see all of these people coming in from the
COUNCIL MEETING 32 MARCH 13, 2019
mainland as a practice right now, Kaua`i Police Department (KPD), the new Chief is
from Las Vegas. I wonder when we are going to have a casino. Mark my words,
there is a casino being worked on by all of our friends at Coco Palms. Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Matt, did you want a second turn?
Mr. Bernabe: Matt Bernabe, for the record. I would not
quite say it like the last testifier, but I do see it similar. You know, I know a lot of
firemen and I know a lot of lifeguards. The lifeguards on a day-to-day basis have a
harder job on this island than the Fire Department. If you want to do a cross analysis
when you say, "Oh, the mainland runs like this and this is what the mainland does,"
when it is put into a holistic perspective, our Kaua`i Fire Department has to run their
trucks up to the ambulance call because they do not have enough calls to get the hours
required to drive their truck. Therefore, they have to find reasons to go fishing on
their boat to run it and they have to find reasons to drive their truck being that they
do not have enough calls. Therefore, they are forced to go and see the ambulance
calls because they do not have too many house fires. When it does occur, we are going
to be happy when they show up. I am not dogging the Fire Department at all. For
this discussion, when we are connected to the collective bargaining that forces us
down this road, that is when the management needs to run on best practice. That is
when best practice need to kick in because they are going to have this problem that
has occurred somewhere else in the world. We are not the innovators of problems.
This has occurred somewhere. This has been solved somewhere. This has gone wrong
somewhere. Somewhere there is the game plan for us to transition from past practice
to best practice. You seven (7), are the tasks to go find that process. Thank you.
•
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Anyone else wishing to testify? Seeing none.
I will call this meeting back to order.
•
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: We have to take a caption break. Actually, let
us take the caption break already and we will have our final comments on the ERS.
I am sure we are going to take a little while on that.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 10:30 a.m.
The meeting was called back to order at 10:40 a.m., and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: We will call the meeting back to order. Any
final discussion on the ERS from the members? Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you Chair. I want to thank you for
putting this on the agenda. I am very uncomfortable and almost depressing to a point
but this has nothing to do with the performance of Police and Fire and what have
you. Performance on a daily, I think that they do an excellent job with daily crisis,
emergencies, and keeping the public safe. Kaua`i Police Department (KPD) does a
fabulous job. The issue that we have is how will we keep paying for this big tab that
COUNCIL MEETING 33 MARCH 13, 2019
is growing and growing? One of the problems that was brought up is spiking. Which
is a management thing. There is always a manager who has to approve certain
overtime. The way I see it is, I think the younger officers, or younger firefighters,
they are the ones that are starting their lives. They could use the money, they could
use the incentives to stay within the department. If there is overtime, you should try
and give it to lower paid folks, the younger folks. It should not be like how we saw in
the last report. Joann saw that report when we had the Police and Fire overtime. It
came up for the past two (2) years and it was a lot of the managers or the Assistant
Chiefs that had fifty thousand dollars ($50,000), forty thousand dollars ($40,000), or
thirty thousand dollars ($30,000). The folks on the bottom had six thousand dollars
($6,000) or eight thousand dollars ($8,000). I mean, we really have to scratch your
head and say "Wow, can we do better?" Of course. Undoubtedly. I do not need to go
into details to know that we could do better with distribution of overtime. I have a
very good friend, an officer, who says "In five (5) years, he has never been offered
overtime." He is a school police officer, but still, you would, if overtime is needed at
the County Fair, why are we seeing Assistant Chiefs there working at the County
Fair? It should be folks that want the overtime, they are young, they have families,
and they have kids in college. Not the folks that will retire soon. I think we can do
better. I did a little calculation here on page twenty 14. Over ten (10) years, the
Police and Fire over the rest of the Government Unions, twenty six-percent (26%)
more than the rest of the Unions. Have we been generous with granting collective
bargaining increases to Police and Fire? Of course. Now again, I will state the facts,
we have a harder time attracting policemen. Is that difference of twenty-six percent
(26%) needed for police? Maybe, or maybe we need somebody better doing the hiring
and getting involved in hiring. I think when you have twenty-six percent (26%) more
of pay above other government employees, I think it is a pretty good pay package.
How do we make the job attractive to our local people to say, "There is some bad
things that go with being a police officer, but I can make a good living? In time, I can
buy my house at Pikake with that pay." In Fire, we have no problem. We have a lot
of applicants. We turn away so many people, it is not funny. There is a lot of people
that want to be...all the young children I talk too, they want to be a firemen. The pay
is good and the job is attractive. It is not pilau as being a police officer, where you
have to deal with a lot more harsh things. With that, I say, I am going to do a
Resolution. I am tired. I am going to do resolution that is going to propose freezing
the Fire pay for the next four (4) years at its current level. The evidence is right here.
Twenty-six percent (26%) more than the other Unions. They are far beyond
generous. I am also going to be proposing one (1) for the Police. That will reduce
their yearly increase to one percent (1%). I believe to leave at zero (0) would not be
fair. It would not be fair to the vacancies that we have. Again, we are in drastic
times, nobody wants to fix it, I am going to try to fix it. Police Commission or the
Police Chief does not want to fix it, I am going to try to fix it. So, I hope I get the
votes.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: I am not trying to rush members. We do have
students wanting to testify on the roads. They have to leave by 11:00 a.m. I will
leave that out there. Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: First of all, the presentation today was really
good in terms of what is being done at administrative-level Statewide. I also think
COUNCIL MEETING 34 MARCH 13, 2019
there are specifics that we have to focus on. When we know that the specific kind of
plan that we have, there are already mechanisms to become more efficient and look
at areas/municipalities like Wisconsin that are already funding at one hundred
percent (100%), under the same type of plan, we have to look at what it is they are
doing. What they are doing is creating caps on some of these benefits. They are
looking at adjustable contribution rates. We cannot wait twenty-five (25) years in
order to try and achieve this. We have to be more aggressive. I think we have heard
very clearly and even what Council Vice Chair is saying is, we can create a resolution
and we can create policy that will go to the State. It is a statewide issue and the
Legislature needs to step up and address this. I think that with the Hawai`i State
Association of Counties, because it is a Statewide issue, I think we should be focusing
as a body to put Legislation together, a policy together that we can all support so
they can get these things passed for us and really affect the best practices that have
been mentioned today. Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Anyone else? I guess I will make mine. Well,
I will make mine fast. We have them in here every year and the conversation of
fairness comes in. Is the County getting their fair share in ERS? It is all put into
one big bucket. Are we paying more because we pay higher employer contributions
for Police and Fire which the State does not have? So again, you know, the money
that is going into that bucket is a lot larger coming from County's side. Does matching
us with the teachers, hurt or hinder the County? I am not sure. I only ask for fairness
when I ask these questions. It would be nice if we put money in for spiking for an
employee, and something happens, we get the benefit of that money that we put in.
Right now, it is all in one bucket. It is very difficult and convolute it all in one bucket.
I am glad Tom came in and he was completely honest with the situation we are in.
He was here a few years ago when our investments were in the negative and it was
not a good conversation here. Everybody was freaking out. I am glad based on the
market that our investments have been performing okay. That is all I have to say. I
also did want to do a follow-up. I got information from our Director of Finance that
there are not five thousand (5,000) checks sitting. Checks have been deposited in our
account. I also wanted to clear that up. If you want, you can talk with our Director
of Finance later about the issues you have with our Tax Department.
The motion is to receive C 2019-52 for the record, was then put, and
unanimously carried.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Motion carried. Based on the time, Scott, let
us go to roads.
C 2019-51 Communication from Councilmember Cowden requesting the
presence of the Deputy County Engineer, to provide a briefing on the schedule for
islandwide road resurfacing and repairs. Councilmember Kuali`i moved to receive
C 2019-51 for the record, seconded by Councilmember Chock.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: We have the students that need to leave by
11:00 a.m., so I will have them come up and testify first.
COUNCIL MEETING 35 MARCH 13, 2019
Mr. Sato: The first speaker is Travis Brown, followed by
Carmen Swanson.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Travis. You will have three (3) minutes, the
light will turn green when your time starts. State your name for the record. When
there is thirty (30) seconds left the light will turn yellow, and when the three (3)
minutes are up the light will turn red.
TRAVIS BROWN: Good morning, Councilmembers. I am Travis
Brown. I am from Kalaheo. I will be testifying for the development of roads. I want
to see the roads get wider. I am going to share with you why we need these
expansions. I leave my house at 9:00 p.m. when the roads are semi-empty. It takes
around seventeen (17) minutes to reach Lihu`e. If I were to leave at 6:30 a.m., it will
take thirty (30) minutes to reach Lihu`e. If I were to leave my house at 7:00 a.m., it
will take forty-five (45) minutes to reach Lihu`e. If I were to leave my house at 7:30
a.m. it will take one (1) hour to reach Lihu`e. I am sharing these different times to
show we need to work towards cutting the traffic to make it closer to what it was like
in the evening. Recently when coming into Lihu`e, whether it is for school or work,
there has been car accidents. Whether that is because someone is running late due
to the traffic backup or they need to get somewhere in a hurry. It does not really
matter, because when they get the opportunity to speed, and weave through cars,
they take the risk and put others in danger and make the backup worse. I believe if
we were to expand the roads, we would reduce the dangers of driving and maybe
speed up traffic by ten (10) minutes. That would make a big difference in our lives.
Wider roads would benefit everyone in the community; our County needs safer and
quicker means of transportation and the roads are not suitable for the amount of
traffic we are receiving. Please consider expanding that and thank you for listening.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Thank you.
Mr. Sato: Next speaker is Carmen Swanson followed by
Chloey Gray.
CARMEN SWANSON: Hello. My name is Carmen Swanson. I live
in Lihu`e and today I am going to be addressing highway dividers at Halfway Bridge.
There have been many deaths at Halfway Bride because drivers cross the centerline
and collide headfirst with head-on traffic. Sometimes drugs or alcohol are a factor,
sometimes both drivers are sober but there is a poor road visibility, or there are
working several jobs and are not completely alert. Studies have shown that a median
divider are an effective way to reduce head-on crashes and save lives. If the County
had one installed, it would make a big difference in safety of the road. The first
fatality on Kaua`i this year was at Halfway:Bridge at 5:30 a.m. in the morning on
January 12th. The man was a student of my dad's at Kaua`i Community College. He
was a Veteran and supported his grandchildren and his whole family. We will miss
him. He was trying to get a degree to be a good example for his grandchildren and
working several jobs. Being that there is no divider, he died. In Kauai, car crashes
often cause traffic because the road is closed for many hours. People cannot get to
their jobs, get to school, or catch planes. Even ambulances cannot get through. Police
officers are tied up and cannot help others in the community. The Federal Highway
COUNCIL MEETING 36 MARCH 13, 2019
Administration citing studies in Washington State and North Carolina place the
decreases in cross median traffic fatalities and ninety percent (90%) or higher. Where
barriers are in place, it is possible to predict how many lives will be saved by a
reinforced guardrail or a cement barrier at Halfway Bridge. If we do nothing, it is
very likely that every year head on collisions will continue to happen and more Kaua`i
residents and tourists will lose their lives. Thank you for listening to my testimony
and please take actions to save lives.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Thank you. Thank you, Carmen. Halfway
Bridge is a State Highway, but we will be sure to pass your information on to Larry
Dill and let him know your concerns.
Mr. Sato: Next speaker is Chloe Gray, followed by Matt
Bernabe.
CHLOE GRAY: Good morning. My name is Chloe Gray and I
live in Anahola. I am a senior at Hawai`i Technology Academy. I am here today to
testify on agenda item C 2019-51, road conditions on the island. I would like for there
to be a more permanent fix to the potholes. Whether that be fixing them completely
or maybe investing in a more efficient patch work system. I know that there has been
patch work to the still existing potholes as I have seen them when on the roads.
However, with the amount of cars that drive over them every single day, as well as
rains and storms we have been having recently, they do not last long and they wear
very easily, leaving the potholes in almost a worse condition than they were prior. I
drive Kuhio Highway from Anahola to Lihu`e and back almost every single day. Even
through the backroads and bypass, you have to endure the terrible bumps, cracks,
and potholes in the road. It is always scary when I do not see them in time and I
drive right through them. Especially when it is raining it is more difficult to catch
them in time. The vehicle I currently drive is not very new. A single pothole could
damage it very easily by going right through it. My parents and I personally do not
have the money to fix that type of maintenance. If it were to happen, I believe that
other people in the community would not be able to pay for that as well. I would hate
to have to burden my parents with that type of payment for something that the
County could possibly fix or improve.
(Councilmember Brun was noted as present.)
Ms. Gray: Now this just does not affect me, but it also
affects every individual on Kaua`i who owns a vehicle and who can drive. The most
positive outcome would be the happiness and gratitude of locals here on Kaua`i. We
can drive happier, safer, and have comfort knowing our roads are safe and at good
quality. I understand there is a budget; like a fixed budget to fixing the roads and a
mapped out plan of where and when you are required to fix. I believe that
permanently fixing these things now and no matter the cost will save the County of
Kaua`i much more money in the long run. If we wait for road conditions to become
terrible and almost unusable, we will be paying much more and we will ultimately
exceed the budget. So yes, it would be beyond appreciated not by just me but the
community of Kaua`i if our roads were better. Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING 37 MARCH 13, 2019
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Thank you. Matt, I let them go first before the
presentation because they have to leave. If you want to testify.
Mr. Bernabe: I have to work.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Okay.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Mr. Bernabe: Matt Bernabe for the record. Before I begin
talking I would like to say this issue brought me here aside from the many people
asking me to advocate on their behalf for many issues. This particular issue hits
everybody. If you go to Kealia, it is negative; you go to Koloa, Shipwrecks; it is
negative; no matter what circle you are talking about roads on this island, it is going
to be negative. It is going to get even more negative when they realize that the zero
point five percent (.5%) tax we are all paying. When we buy our regular drinks and
pay two cents ($0.02) more, we noticed it. They are going to trip out when they start
ripping up Rice Street and not Kawaihau. The reason I bring this up is because I was
just looking at my photos and a couple of years ago, my upper ball joint blew out
because of a pothole.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present.)
Mr. Bernabe: This happened in front of Mahelona Hospital.
That road has not been touched, the road looks identical, if not worse off than the day
I had my accident a couple years back. Unlike the young brave kids that came to
testify, I was able to pay fix my vehicle relatively cheap. I had "Toyota folks" and we
did it and it was okay. If you do not have enough money to fix your car because of the
potholes, that is a problem. That young lady hit it on the money. She would be upset
to know that the County's policy at one point in time was to sit on the money and roll
it over, and it never got addressed to the roads. If they knew the history of these
roads, they would be more upset. The reason I am here testifying is because earlier
we were talking about best practice. One of the things that is destroying our roads is
we are not weighing our commercial vehicles. You do not see any weigh stations, you
do not see any weigh stations. I know that the whole issue we had out on the North
Shore with one of our employees, one of the issues was overloading our own Garden
Island Disposal trucks, which go from Princeville to Mana. If we are not managing
the simple little issue, it does not matter what we do to our roads, we are going to
keep damaging it. This is going back to best practice, this is another one of those
issues that it does not matter what agenda item comes up today, if you hammer the
issue with the best practice mallet, you will get the answer. I am a little sour because
I testified against that increase for road funding and a year later it got reintroduced
and passed. However, we have not seen any movement on the roads? I have seen a
couple of little spots that they threw asphalt. Koloa has a little work here and there,
but it is slow. Where is all the money from the past budgets that this young lady just
talked about? Why has that not been invested? I would like to see where it all went?
Kawaihau is not fixed? Kapa'a Corridor is not fixed. Koloa is slow, I see some work
but is nowhere near done? I will come back.
COUNCIL MEETING 38 MARCH 13, 2019
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Anyone else wanting to speak now? You do
have opportunity to speak after the presentation from roads.
Mr. Bernabe: I will take my other three (3) if there is nobody
else?
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Again Matt, as far as General Excise Tax
(GET), it did not start until January, so we have not even received any moneys from
it.
Mr. Bernabe: It is fine, but just to add on to your point, I
have already went with my exact change for what I buy on a daily basis and I have
already felt the increase. I had to walk back to my car for the two cents ($0.02). If I
need to walk back to my car for the two cents ($0.02), why is that money not already
going into my roads? I am not going to say that. I know that these folks are working.
I understand it is a transitional Administration at this point, we will see what
happens in the next year. If we do not convert to best practice for long-term
feasibility, this will be another issue in another two (2) years, four (4) years, and
eight (8) years. I really want to advocate for scales. I cannot underscore...I was just
working on the North Shore recovery project, I was driving the dump truck, and I was
picking up boulders at the Hanalei Bridge, okay. I know for a fact that those trucks
were mounding with boulders. One (1) boulder in my truck, I have the photo, my
little five (5) ton, it leaned over and it was heavier than my five (5) ton that was just
one (1) boulder. I would like to know with all of this commercial activity going. Being
that Ha`ena does not want to use their own boulders, we need to bring in boulders
from Waimea for retaining walls at Waikoko and all of these other places. Where are
the scales for these trucks in both directions? The reason we have weight limits is to
protect the longevity of our roads. The whole thing with Ben, he was upset because
his CDL license had a higher standard of him being over weighted. If he crashed, he
would have been personally liable. You all know that. Well, maybe not some of the
new members? The rest of you know that is a fact, and we lost. The State fined us,
we loss. That would have been a best practice. That would have been a
communication of problem, going to the superior, going to Human Resources, going
to the Mayor, and the solution coming back down the same chain. Conflict resolution
not conflict. That is what we need.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Anyone else in the audience wishing to
testify? Seeing none. I am actually going to recess this meeting. Clerk, can we go to
Communication 2019-50?
There being no objections, C 2019-50 was taken out of order.
JADE K. FOUNTAIN-TANIGAWA, County Clerk: On page 2, C 2019-50.
C 2019-50 Communication (02/04/2019) from the Acting Chief of Police,
requesting Council approval to receive and expend Federal funds for the Sexual
Assault Nurse Examiner (SANE) Exams and Supportive Funding and DNA Analysis
programs, in the amount of$49,475, which will be used to continue law enforcement
efforts to assist in sexual assault investigations and crimes through agency
COUNCIL MEETING 39 MARCH 13, 2019
collaboration, and approval to contract with and indemnify the State of Hawai`i
Department of the Attorney General for the term commencing November 1, 2018 to
May 31, 2019: Councilmember Kagawa moved to approve C 2019-50, seconded by
Councilmember Kuali`i.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Any questions on this item from the
members? If not, anyone wishing to testify?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Seeing none. Any final discussion from the
members?
The motion to approve C 2019-50 was then put, and unanimously carried.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Those opposed? Motion carried and we will go
back to our roads item.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: C 2019-51.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: With that we will suspend the rules. Lyle, you
do have a presentation? Again, we will keep the questions until the very end of the
presentation.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
LYLE TABATA, Deputy County Engineer: Good morning, members, Chair,
Vice Chair. I appreciate this opportunity and it appears from testimony that there
are many, many misconceptions out there that I hope to clear. First off, the County
owns only three hundred and eight (308) center lane miles of roads on this island.
One hundred fifty-four (154) miles of which are State-owned, Department of
Transportation. These are the main roads Kaumuali`i to Kuhio from one end of the
island Mana all the way to Ke`e Beach. In addition, the State is responsible for
Kuamo`o Road, the Waimea route up to Koke`e, Kapule and Ahukini Highway, and
Maalo Road. We have all the rest of which two hundred forty-four (244) miles are
local roads centerline and sixty-four (64) federal aid collector roads. We have
three (3) County base yards in Hanalei, Kapa`a, and Hanapepe. Funding, I am glad
I am able to educate the masses. We have a fuel tax program. We have funding from
the vehicle weight tax, but only a portion of the fuel tax of the total that you pay is to
the County, the rest goes to the State. It is similar with our vehicle weight tax. We
have also gone out for bonds for reconstruction. Finally, after over four (4) years of
fighting to get this half percent surcharge passed, the body accommodated us last
year in July, and I totally appreciate one hundred ten percent (110%) of the Councils
effort to help step up and fund us. Previous to passing...and the money is only flowing
since January 1st of 2019, previous to that, our share that was yielded from the fuel
and weight taxes was one million two hundred thousand dollars ($1,200,000) a year.
COUNCIL MEETING 40 MARCH 13, 2019
With the half percent (0.5%) surcharge, we are looking at a yield of close to or a little
over twenty-four million dollars ($24,000,000), of which you will see during budget
and the Mayor's message. A great portion, seventy-five percent (75%) will be coming
to our Roads Division and twenty-five percent (25%) will be going to the The Kaua`i
Bus transportation system. Overtime, things might change. However, at this point,
because the Mayor and I hear the community loud and clear, that will be the split.
The last method of funding is through the Federal Highway Administration through
our Hawai`i Department of Transportation for our collector system, not only for the
roads, but our bridges. Further down in our PowerPoint, the bridges that are covered
under the federal aid system are bridges that are twenty (20) feet or longer. That
will provide eighty percent (80%) Federal match to our twenty percent (20%) County
funds. However, that does not come without limitations as in everything else that we
face daily. This will also be discussed further in slides moving forward. People are
all saying "nothing is happening yet." We presently have our 2019 road resurfacing
out to bid. The roads that will be included are on our website. Let me go backwards.
To make things perfectly clear, visible, and transparent for the community, we
worked to create Policy and Standard Operating Procedures on how roads will be
selected. I know the document is tiny right here, but this entire document can be
found on the County of Kaua`i's Website, Department of Public Works, Roads
Division. In addition, you will the see the roads that are presently done in 2018, and
then the 2019 lists of roads that are out to bid. I will outline our policy. We survey
every three (3) years with a third-party contractor. They will come in and drive every
mile of our roads, they will do the condition assessment, the remaining service of life
calculation of that particular road, and a pavement roughness index. This is a
snapshot of time of when the contractor will go out on the roads. After the data is
received, the Roads Division does the fuel reconnaissance. They certify the physical
condition assessment report that we receive. Further reconnaissance they might do
is core sampling of the under foundation road structure. This is so we are able to
confirm what is underneath the road and in what state that foundation is in. They
will take accurate measurements of the segmented needs of the road. For example,
it may not be necessary for the entire road to be reconstructed, but focused segments
which will save money. In addition the type and magnitude of travel is taken into
consideration, meaning the population of the destination, what the road is used for,
if it is used for recreational, industrial, commercial, or governmental destinations,
the magnitude of travel is based on the average daily travel counts. Our Engineering
Division and the State has been doing traffic counts on different roads throughout
the island and gathering data over time.
•
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Mr. Tabata: We then look at the various treatments that
are recommended to us through the third-party survey. The recommendations range
from reconstruction, which is the most expensive, all the way to pavement •
preservation, that I will explain later, and treatments for the edge of pavement
meaning the shoulders. After the Roads Division has gone out into the field, we will
take that data and do a countywide agency review, which will include the Engineering
Division, the Planning Department, the Transportation Agency; The Kaua`i Bus. We
also look at other impacts our roads resurfacing project may have on other County
projects, in specifically, in line with what the Department of Water is doing. If they
COUNCIL MEETING 41 MARCH 13, 2019
are planning to replace a waterline, we definitely do not want to resurface that road.
We want to look for these projects, coordinate with the Department of Water, or any
other developer on the island who may be making changes and/or do work. We will
take the roads that are in the plan and look for changes that could be made in the
travel way to be consistent with the recently passed General Plan. We will look at
other designs in our recently passed County road standards which we updated to
meet the needs of our community. Some possibilities were to add a bike lane, a
sidewalk, or other improvements at crossings. With the multiple agencies, we gather
all of the data as we sit down with the Roads Division to discuss and determine work
timeframe. If additional work is required based on the community input and traffic
resolutions, we will look for the fastest way to turn the roads around. We will also
look at street striping changes or if significant changes are required. The timeframes
are prioritized by road work turnaround and bidding. The more Complexed projects
will delay bidding, we would move shift projects around to accomplish more work
done as fast as we can. Right now, the money we are looking at from the surcharge
is for a ten-year period. I need to stress that it will take the full ten-year to get to all
of our needs. I am receiving calls from all over the island. People are hearing about
the surcharge, they are paying more, and "I want my road resurfaced now." Well, I
am sorry. We need to do this in a practical way, so we are able to hit the highest
needs first. The highest needs in some areas may not necessarily agree to the highest
need in different areas such as Kekaha, Hanalei, Lihu`e, or another part of the island.
Additional information we will look at is if a project will risk a scheduling delay, it
will be replaced with the next highest priority. Streets resulting in funded needs will
be looked at in the cycle of where we are with funding, and then the final submitted
roads will be sent to the Mayor for approval.
Here is an overview of road maintenance and reconstruction. We basically
have three (3) major areas that we look at which includes islandwide resurfacing,
which is straight repaving; maintenance function, potholes; preventive maintenance
and emergency repairs, roads that are totally crumbling. Examples of each are seen
all over the island. Examples of emergency repairs have been done on Koloa,
Maluhia, and Haleko, Olohena Roads. We are currently at Ka'apuni Road. The
Department of Water is scheduled to install a waterline on Ka'apuni and we have
been waiting, waiting, and waiting. Their timeline does not match the community's
needs. Being that we could not wait any longer, we are doing intermediate repairs,
which is an example of an emergency repair. We look at roadway failure which I
believe Ka'apuni does fit into that box. The roadway failure projects that are in our
Collector Road System, we utilize the Statewide Transportation Improvement
Program (STIP). Under this STIP program, reconstruction is done using
eighty twenty (80/20) split. The picture shows a curve which identifies the road
condition of the bottom being poor and the top being good, and in between are the
various treatments I spoke to. If we are able to keep ourselves in the preventive
maintenance quadrant, we will be able to keep our roads in better condition. A part
of this is the road sealing. After our roads are resurfaced, we would like to go back
after five (5) years and reseal the roadway. Parts of the curve you see are mill and
fill where we go in a do resurfacing. Reconstructions calls for major work where we
would go deeper than the surface and we work on the foundation doing deeper
reconstruction. This photo reflects poor to good over time. Majority of the roads
lifecycle is ten (10) years. If we are able to get to the road within the first five (5) out
COUNCIL MEETING 42 MARCH 13, 2019
of ten (10)years and do crack or road sealing with slurry or some other sort of product,
we would be able to extend the wear life of a minimum five (5) more years. Which
means instead of a ten (10) year lifecycle we expect to get fifteen (15), and if we go
back another five (5), we will be able to extend the wear life another twenty (20)years.
Ultimately, the condition of the base will dictate what we really happen during the
rehabilitation or reconstruction portion. In general, the poorer the condition, the
more expensive it is to maintain. Island Wide Crack Filling and Surface Sealing
(IWCFSS) of our pavement service is called IWCFSS or sealing, which extends the
life and improves the quality of our road pavements. It is used for the lower volume
and lower speed roads in which we expect to extend life significantly. In 2017, we
used four hundred thousand dollars ($400,000) and we resurfaced one point six seven
(1.67) miles. In 2018, we took one million five hundred thousand dollars ($1,500,000)
and we resurfaced a little over four and one half(4.5) miles. In 2019, we are presently
out to bid. For islandwide resurfacing, it is a rehabilitation maintenance of asphalt
overlay. It is on the border of doing preventative maintenance and corrective
maintenance. The overlay is not as costly, but if we need to do reconstruction which
we classify as the mill and fill. We go in and mill the section out to a certain debt and
resurface with asphalt treated base, and do the overlay. It is a three-part process;
however, it appears to be yielding an extended wear life. You are able to see that
process going on extensively by HDOT right now on our highways. You are able to
see the milling machine go in and mill off the surface to a certain debt which varies
depending on the sub straight, they go back in with the asphalt treated base, and
finish with asphalt overlay. We are employing the same process. In 2017, we had
two million seven hundred thousand dollars ($2,700,000). We have been told that we
have rolled over two (2) years' worth of money. The Mayor added a little more and
we were able to do just short of five (5) miles. We could have done more if we did
straight overlay, but that does not do us any good if we pave over bad foundation. In
2018, we had three million two hundred thousand dollars ($3,200,000) and we paved
eleven and one half(11.5) miles.
(Councilmember Chock was noted as not present.)
Mr. Tabata: Again, it is a combination of mill and fill with
the asphalt overlay. In 2019, right now, we have eight million dollars ($8,000,000)
which is out to bid. That is half of the total we are seeing right now for this year. We
needed to share some of the money with transportation. Prevented maintenance, as
I mentioned earlier, extends the wear life which includes potholes. We have moved
from using coal mix for potholes. We use coal mix in extreme emergencies. We use
cementitious material which is a little pricey and comes in five (5) gallon buckets.
The field folks go in and mix, tamper it down as best as they can, and roll over the
potholes. We do utility cut and excavation repairs. With the surface sealing we do
crack fill of the cracks because one (1) of the major problems when the road cracks is
we let water get underneath the road surface and that water totally destroys our
pavement. We need to try and address crack filling and surface sealing of the
pavement surface to try and extend the wear life. Recently, working with DOT, they
have shared with us an open ended contract, a template for us to use, so we are able
to improve delivery of the emergency work. Having the flexibility to have a contract
that is open with a set amount of money that we encumber will give us flexibility and
be able to move swifter to address road failures, before we can touch everything in
•
COUNCIL MEETING 43 MARCH 13, 2019
the next ten (10) years. This is just the beginning, and we are going to have more of
these instances. We are looking at these open-ended contracts to help us quickly
move around. So this is a list of what we did in 2017 and 2018. It is a little bit larger
in the handouts that I sent you, but you will see the total number of roads that we
touched. So you can see over here, the resurfacing. This is the sealing for 2017.
Resurfacing for 2018. And then the whole bunch more of sealing that we did from
2018. We touched many roads, and we hope that is going to extend those roads
minimum of five (5) more years. So this is just to capture with the small amount of
money we did have and the amount of work we did do. So we are facing now coming
up close to fourteen million dollars ($14,000,000), seventy five percent (75%) of the
twenty-four (24)—We are on it. We are going to be ready to go come July 1st. That
is our goal. To talk a little bit about the federal aid process, we have been talking for
years in trying to get our Federal Aid Program rolling at the County. We have had
projects we have been developing for years. This program unfortunately comes
attached with a lot of requirements in order to meet the Federal Highway needs. On
the top of the page, we have Federal Highway Administration who passed the
program through us through the DOT Highways Division. Part of the process is every
four (4) years, we get asked to bring forth projects that we would like to place on the
STIP. We are currently in a cycle where we are bringing projects forward. The fiscal
year runs from October 1st to September 30th of the next year, and the County is
allocating on the average eight million dollars ($8,000,000) each Federal fiscal year.
Right now, we are working feverishly to be able to encumber some funds in the
present cycle. As we all know, our needs are far more beyond of what the Federal
funding that is available. On the average, we have costs for reconstructing pavement
of one million dollars ($1,000,000), up to three hundred million dollars ($300,000,000)
a mile which depends how deep we need to go. For bridge replacements, it is from
one million five hundred thousand dollars ($1,500,000) up to twelve million dollars
($12,000,000). These are our estimates. When you look at this, eight million dollars
($8,000,000) does not go very far. This is what we are facing. We are proposing to
use some of the GET funds so we are able to get ahead and we are able to find that
balance. We have to find that balance. The GET fund will be an extremely big help
but it is not going to solve all. We are still looking at opportunities. Most of our
County's busiest streets are federal aid roads as I mentioned it is our Collective
System, which is Koloa and Maluhia Roads, Kekaha/Koke`e Road, which was recently
done in 2013, Rice Street, Haleko, more recently some of the roads around Kukui
Grove, Kawaihau Road, parts of Olohena, and I can go on.
(Councilmember Chock was noted as present.)
Mr. Tabata: We will be placing our projects that we have
in process on the Engineering Division's Website. As I had mentioned earlier, all
County bridges that are twenty (20) feet long are federal aid bridges, of which we
have twenty-six (26) bridges that are all eligible for Federal funding. For each cycle,
HDOT asked the County to submit projects for the STIP. We do not wait for the cycle,
we need to bring projects forward because other projects throughout the State may
drop off and we need to be "shovel ready" to begin the process. Criteria used by staff
to identify possible projects are Preservation of Existing Federal Aid Bridges that are
needing repair or replacement, Preservation of Existing Federal Aid Routes that are
needing resurfacing or reconstruction, and where improvements are identified, ad
COUNCIL MEETING 44 MARCH 13, 2019
from planning documents we look at new routes possibilities. As we have stated
before, the State is in no shape to add new routes or roads. However, we want to look
at creating a grid type environment where we may want to fund our own roads to
solve some of what we believe are congestion issues that come off the main State
Highway, but compound within our own roadway network. We have some ideas that
are needing to be worked on. Reasons for improvements, added to preservation
projects, is safety. We are always looking at safety which includes sidewalks,
crosswalks, and improving our paved shoulders. As I mentioned above, these new
routes, we want to look at how we are able to reduce congestion. Turn lanes and
roundabouts, we would fund these on our own for County roads. Improving access to
bus stops and shelters.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present.)
Mr. Tabata: We spent a lot of money putting these bus
stops and shelters in place, but I believe if you look really closely, the access to these
shelters a lot to be desired, but that is a part of the whole process. When we bring
Transportation in to look at resurfacing, we want to possibly look at paved shoulders
a little wider to create a walkway, look at reducing maintenance, and support
economic development. It all ties together. This is a huge network of multimodal
means of transportation, and we need to look at every method we are able in the
travel way. The sources for improvements as we look at the General Plan, the
individual community plans, and town core plan, there is a Federal Aid
Highway 2035 Transportation Plan for Kaua`i. We have our Safe Routes to School
Task Force, which we look at routes around a one (1) mile radius around our schools
and transportation studies that have been completed; the Kapa'a Transportation
Solutions and the Kaua`i Short Range Transit Plan. Every time we go to any public
meetings to hear from the community, Engineering Investigations by DPW staff and
based on requests from this body, the public, and other agencies we look at projects
that we can bring forward. Additionally as I mentioned earlier, the General Plan
helps us prioritize repair and maintenance of the existing corridor, establishes the
priorities using performance-based evaluation processes. Safety, every year we
receive the crash data from HDOT for our Collector Roads Systems. In addition, we
also get data from KPD. We also look at system preservation. Our Collector Road is
done by a third-party hired by the State. They give us ratings of poor to fair. As I
mentioned earlier, they also take data for traffic volumes and they outfeed us this
data to help us make decisions. On the economic development side, if we are able to
improve connectivity to our town centers, schools, and parks using multimodal means
of transportation, it will only make our communities healthier. We look at
anticipated pedestrian and bike volumes. We have community members and
partners, who go out and take bicycle counts and look at volumes on the roadways.
We take all of that data into consideration when we are looking at projects. Support
for growth in certain areas. Right now, there is a concerted effort to look at our infill
development in our town cores. Whatever way we are able to help accommodate the
infill and create these multimodal means of transportation in these communities with
the infrastructure we are going to do. We like to look at projects that are going to
reduce the congestion and improve the travel time, which was previously brought up
•
in testimony, and in time, we are hoping to improve time in roadway capacity.
Roadway capacity in a sense of what we are talking about is not only for vehicles. It
•
COUNCIL MEETING 45 MARCH 13, 2019
is also for transit, pedestrians, and for bicyclists. It will also protect the environment
and the cultural assets that we have. It will encourage the reduction of petroleum
use, and improve cultural and environmental resources by using less fossil fuels. At
this time I want to open up it for questions. I also have my staff here from Roads
Division, Ed Renaud and Engineering Division, Michael Moule. If they are able to
come up and join me?
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Thank you.
Mr. Tabata: They are able to answer specifics.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Brun.
Councilmember Brun: Lyle, I guess it is on the last slide that talks
about multimodal use and bike paths. Are we looking at more bike paths on this
island?
Mr. Tabata: It is our duty to look at opportunities.
Councilmember Brun: If it is like on the road, I can see that. Driving
up to Mahelona Hospital, I guess they did that walking path down from Mahelona
Mr. Tabata: Yes.
Councilmember Brun: My question is, we all want to do more bike
paths, but our Parks & Recreation Division or whoever takes care of all of this is
already stretched as it is, we have to look at different ways of having somebody to
clean these paths. That one path going up to Mahelona is full of vines and everything.
I know everybody is looking at bike paths, but what is the long-term? Yes, we can
pay two million dollars ($2,000,000) now, but we cannot supply the people to clean
them. I think we have enough bike paths right now as it is. If it is on Rice Street
because that is already on the street, vines and things will not be growing, paths that
are on the backroads, we need to find a way to clean it. Everybody wants bike paths,
but no one wants to clean them. All of these groups are saying, "We need more bike
paths," but not one of them is raising their hands and are saying they will clean it for
free. Nobody is adopting our bike paths. It is a burden of the County and it is costing
the tax payers money to clean these bike paths. If we do not clean it, we get ripped
on Facebook and Instagram because our Parks & Recreation are not doing their job.
We are already stretched as it is so I am sorry, we really need to look at this to see
what the long-term outcome is. Yes, we all want bike paths, but who is going to clean
it? Who is going to take care of it? Who is going to maintain it? As a County, we
cannot continue to afford this.
MICHAEL MOULE, Chief of Engineering: Councilmember Brun, thank you
for your comments and questions. I want to point out that what we are talking about
here today, when we talked about the anticipated bike and pedestrian volume, what
we are talking about today is the various factors that will go into prioritizing the
potential resurfacing and reconstruction projects with improvements. This does not
have to do with building separate paths. This actually has to do say, if we are doing
COUNCIL MEETING 46 MARCH 13, 2019
a project, say for example, one of the current projects on the STIP that we did is Puhi
Road. We have already seen so we already know what it looks like. That road was
two (2) lanes, no shoulders, no bike lanes, and no sidewalks. That project included,
in addition to reconstructing the road, we have added to that based on the Complete
Streets Resolution to put in sidewalks and bike lanes to get people to Kaua`i
Community College (KCC). That project under these prioritization criteria that we
are using and is also used by the State with respect to putting projects on the STIP,
would be higher... would be higher ranked because it is improving facilities for
walking and biking and there is a lot of pedestrian and bike volume anticipated
because it is providing connections to KCC. That is what we are talking about. We
are not talking with this program that we are presenting today building paths, if that
makes sense.
Councilmember Brun: I understand. Eventually, it will get there.
We are not talking about it today, but I am just saying we really need to look at these
things and see what a long-term outcome is. Yes, everybody wants it, but nobody is
willing to take care of it. Sure, you are not talking about it today, but once you build
this road, somebody will come in and say, "We need a bike path here." This is just
putting something in your folks head that when you look forward to the twelve million
five hundred thousand dollars ($12,500,000), twenty-five million dollars
($25,000,000) that we received, we need to use that wisely to patch and fix our roads.
Then, if we have extra, we can look at more bike paths and sustainable
transportation.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: A follow up to that. When you folks pleaded
here for us to support the half percent (.5%), the plea was, "We are in backlog of one
hundred million dollars ($100,000,000) in road repair, and bridges are another one
•
hundred million dollars ($100,000,000), and we need this money to catch up." The
plea was not to focus on bikes and pedestrians things. We were going to address those
things if it fell in line with the work we were doing and if it would flow in? That is
fine and I am hoping that we will stay on track.
Mr. Tabata: That is exactly what we are saying. This is
the criteria that by law, we need to look at, and in help us with the travel way every
time we spend this money. It is a State and Federal Law that we need to look at
these options for our communities every time we go out and resurface roads.
Councilmember Kagawa: Okay, but when we do what we said and
counts in justifying why we are expanding walking and bike paths, are we counting
those that are really walking or riding with a purpose? Like trying to get to school, •
trying to get to work, or trying to go shopping? The people that I see, ninety-nine
percent (99%) is riding for exercise. Ninety-nine percent (99%) of what I see and I am
not an official counter, I see for exercise. Exercise in my opinion, can be done at
existing facilities created for exercise. To me, it is not safe to drive on some of our
roads. It is not safe in the back of Maluhia or on Olohena, for example, to be creating
bike paths. Our road is too narrow. It is a safety issue that I have with that. I am
hoping that within reason we will decide what is needed. I am not sure too many
COUNCIL MEETING 47 MARCH 13, 2019
people are going to ride from Wailua Homesteads all the way to Kapa'a Elementary
School, Kapa'a Middle School, or Kapa'a High School. It is too dangerous. It is not
wide enough. I am hoping we are able to focus on fixing the backlog as you said you
needed that GET. I am hoping that ten (10) years into this funding when it runs out,
we will still have one hundred million dollars ($100,000,000). If not, this to me will
mean that this Administration did not fulfill its promise to the public. I am hoping
we stay on the right track.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you Mr. Chair. Let me start with the
overall question that I have and it is about really trying to mitigate and analyze if we
really have what it takes to get everything done within the ten (10) year period? The
things that I am thinking about is we have three hundred eight (308) miles of road to
repave and/or seal cracks. When I look at the list for 2019, I see we have about
seventeen (17) miles of road to actually repave, about twenty-three (23). We are
getting to about forty (40) miles of road this year. Which I guess it would make sense
if you are averaging thirty (30) over ten (10) years. I am trying to look at what we
have here. We have eight million dollars ($8,000,000) that is not including what the
federal aid will support. In looking at the cost I feel that we might be a little short
because we have not even talked about bridges. I am wanting to get a sense of where
we are on that? When we are talking about the road priorities. Are we talking about
the goal being us needing to hit all three hundred eight (308) miles of road on island
in ten (10) years? Is that what we are trying to do or are we just trying to repave as
much as possible?
Mr. Tabata: The intent is to touch every mile in some way
or fashion. As you saw from the curve, you will have roads in various stages. Some
of which we are able to recover. The idea is to get tangible resurfaced roadways that
is able to be maintained and sustained. We are trying to address them in a sensible
matter. Meaning, we definitely do not have the money to reconstruct everything. As
we have shown in example, the federal aid process does not have enough money.
However, if we have the project ready and something falls off on the State, we are
hoping to leverage that in getting that money because we are able to show that we
will be shovel-ready, or we need to decide if we are using our GET funds. At that
point, decisions are going to be made with the Administration. You are right, when
you look at the whole picture, all of our bridges and those are just the bridges that we
have identified through the federal aid process, but there is an entire host of other
small culverts that are shorter than twenty (20) feet spans, crossings that are just
shy of twenty (20) feet, and we have yet to touch those. We were just starting to
review those roads and facilities when the storm hit last April, we have lost a year in
our process. We have been working on storm recovery and finally just finished
Kahiliholo. That is not to make an excuse. We are still intending to touch everything
in ten (10) years and it might call that we are needing to extend some portion.
Councilmember Chock: Okay. What I am hearing is you are saying
five (5) years or so into any road, you are needing to redo?
Mr. Tabata: We would like to revisit them.
COUNCIL MEETING 48 MARCH 13, 2019
Councilmember Chock: So after ten (10) years in getting all of our
roads up to shape, the backlog is now taken care of, what I am hearing you say is that
we are not going to have enough to continue that maintenance?
Mr. Tabata: Not at the rate we were.
Councilmember Chock: If we were saying, we are not going to take the
GET back? It will be a whole new direction on how we plan on saving and taking care
of things.
Mr. Tabata: So part of what the State is announcing right
now town hall meetings for the Hawai`i Road Usage Charge, which the meeting is
next week on the 22nd and 23rd. I believe the 22nd is here in Lihu`e and the 23rd is at
the Koloa Neighborhood Center. They are looking at another means to receive
revenues. As I had mentioned upfront, it is the vehicle weight and fuel taxes. High
efficient and electric vehicles do not pay a fuel tax but they still drive the same
amount of miles on our roadway. They do not participate in funding at least the fuel
tax portion. They have received the newest DOT grant to do a pilot by sending out
draft or fake invoices that will show the consumer if they were to be charged based
on vehicle miles traveled, this is what you are going to pay. It is just for the example,
they are saying they will send out invoices that are revenue neutral. Meaning, it is
not increasing but recapturing the market or the revenues that we have loss with the
high-efficient and electric vehicles. There is two (2) sides to every argument. On one
(1) side the community who said, "We took on the high-efficient and electric vehicles
to save the environment so we should be charged less." However, for me all I see is
the rubber on the road. Those vehicles wear out the road just as much as all the
others. This is their pilot to see what the potential is in recovering funds.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you Lyle. I am glad you folks are
relooking at all of it, the whole program. I think what we have heard from testimony
here is that there are vehicles based on weight that have different road impact, I
would hope that what we are doing is looking at that holistically so we are able to
attribute the right amount of uses per road mile.
Mr. Tabata: I believe the Legislature, I am not sure where
it stands but they were going to look at that as DOT asked for increases.
Councilmember Chock: Mr. Chair, I have another questions, but I
will release the floor.
Councilmember Cowden. Thank you very much for making this
presentation. It is helpful for me in understanding some of the parts that create the
delays that make good sense like waiting to put in the waterlines. I will say I get
questions almost every day, or comments about the roads. It is a very big issue for
people. I want to also just acknowledge and thank you for all the heavy work that
you have done in 2018 with the floods and it is still undergoing. Thank you for
Kahiliholo Road and getting that finished. The shoulders and the guardrails are not
in yet but those will be coming up soon right?
COUNCIL MEETING 49 MARCH 13, 2019
Mr. Tabata: Yes, the remaining work.
Councilmember Cowden: I was appreciative of that. I wanted to ask
and I appreciate this on the road resurfacing. Where would we find if a person was
asking, would we see under one of these a map or where people would have an idea?
Mr. Tabata: No. There is no map, it is just a list.
Councilmember Cowden: There is just a list?
Mr. Tabata: We could improve our website to put a map.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay.
Mr. Tabata: So people are able to see the different
districts. We are able to do it by districts. Right there, you are able to see that it is
grouped by district.
Councilmember Cowden: I wonder if there is any kind of map...because
what you have explained before is that you will go to an area so you do not need to
move all of that equipment around?
Mr. Tabata: Yes. That is one of the criteria.
Councilmember Cowden: So maybe you will be working in the Wailua
District, Kapa`a, maybe for a month or two, and then you might move to another area,
and then another area. I think if people have or if it is easy way to tell people when
those things might come up, of course there are emergencies that happen as well,
right?
Mr. Tabata: We have press releases that we do. We
outsource the resurfacing. When the contractor is going to be there, the Office of the
Mayor will do press releases to let the pubic know that resurfacing will be occurring.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay and if there is any way that we could get
something on that can put up on our website.
Mr. Tabata: We will work with our geographic information
system (GIS) folks to help us.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay that will help...not everybody reads the
press releases but thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Be careful on over promising on maps. Google
Maps is easily available.
Mr. Tabata: I would have to beg for help.
COUNCIL MEETING 50 MARCH 13, 2019
Council Chair Kaneshiro: The names are there, if people are wanting to
know where the road is, they could easily go on Google Maps, and type in the road
name. •
Mr. Tabata: Yes. They can do that too.
•
Council Chair Kaneshiro: I am just saying. Councilmember Cowden, do
you have a new question? Councilmember Chock has a follow-up.
Councilmember Cowden: I will wait. •
Council Chair Kaneshiro: I will come back to you right after the follow-
up. Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: I am just following up on this list that we are
looking by group and region, are they numbered by priority? Is that what that is? So
if I look at group two (2) Kapa`a/Wailua District, Kealia Road, Hekili Road, Malu;
does that mean that number 1 is what you want to go to first, correct?
Mr. Tabata: Correct. •
Councilmember Chock: That is how we are able to tell what you will
be focusing on?
Mr. Tabata: Yes, for that district.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: I was going to ask. You started asking a little
bit. When we hear about those trucks with the big boulders and all of the soil, we
have seen all of that sand coming from Mana.
Mr. Tabata: State Highways has several locations where
they...and the gentleman was correct where they used to scale vehicles. They
randomly pulled vehicles off to the side, scale them, and even helped the truckers by
doing safety checks. I believe the scale master retired for Kaua`i and I do not believe
they have every replaced the position? It is a DOT function.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Evslin.
Councilmember Evslin: The one hundred million dollar
($100,000,000) backlog is that still accurate? I think that was discussed during the
time of the excise surcharge.
Mr. Tabata: No. The one hundred million dollar
($100,000,000) backlog was when Mr. Dill and I first came into office in 2010. Here
is 2018. We have talked about within roads and bridges, it is like three hundred
•
COUNCIL MEETING 51 MARCH 13, 2019
million dollars ($300,000,000) which was the estimate we have come up with when
we were doing the presentations when doing the GET surcharge. It is formidable.
Councilmember Evslin: Then after ten (10) years what do you expect
the backlog to be?
Mr. Tabata: Well, for road surfacing we expect to be able
to touch everything and we will be in the cycle where each road will be at some state
of hopefully better repair. With the rain and the way most of our roads have been
constructed, it is hard to say. Like I said, I would love to go in and have engineering
redesign the surface of all of our roads, getting down to the base, but many of the
roads we have are inherited from either Pineapple or Sugar Plantations. Those roads
were not ideally constructed which causes foundational issues.
Councilmember Evslin: Is there a sustainable level of backlog that we
could...like a goal? What should we be at?
Mr. Tabata: I do not think I am able to answer that right
now because we are embarking on this journey. Like I had mentioned, it will take us
ten (10) years. We expect to take ten (10) years to get to all of it. I imagine in year
ten (10), we will know better. I would say in year five (5) we should know better.
Right now, it depends on the market too. We supposedly had three (3) pavers on the
island and now I understand we only have two (2). It helps us with competition. We
are able to get the better pricing and we are able to do more. We found in the last
two (2) years, we received favorable bids that had come in, and we were able to add a
little bit more. With the extra money, Mr. Renaud can attest that we have done the
emergency repairs. That is what we did. We swung them around and said "Hey, we
have this call and we have that call, we went out there, and yes, the road is crumbling
so let us deal with it now." That is what led us to this open-ended contract we are
talking about. We will be moving around a lot but there are roads that needs to be
addressed now because they are at the emergency state.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Follow-up questions, Councilmember
Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: I am kind of baffled by that last statement. I
was elected in 2012 and I was told that road backlog was one hundred million dollars
($100,000,000) at that time. This is 2012 now. It was one hundred million dollars
($100,000,000) in 2012 and the bridge backlog was about another one hundred million
dollars ($100,000,000), so that is two hundred million dollars ($200,000,000), and now
you are saying in 2019, it is three hundred million dollars ($300,000,000)? So did we
do that poor of an estimate? How do you increase one hundred million dollars
($100,000,000) more in seven (7) years? What is going on? Do we need to sharpen
our pencils? What are we doing?
Mr. Moule: That is a very good question. I think that Lyle
showed the slide with the curve about preventative, rehabilitation, and construction.
The reconstruction is a lot more expensive than preventative maintenance and
rehabilitation. We are behind the eight ball. We are to a point where things got a lot
COUNCIL MEETING 52 MARCH 13, 2019
six (6) to seven (7) years, I guess, from 2012 to 2019. More of our roads are in the
reconstruction place than where they were when the study was first done and when
Lyle first came into office. I will do a quick, and based on the collector roads alone
that is where mainly my focus is in the Engineering Division. There are sixty-four
(64) miles in collector roads and one (1) of the slides that Lyle showed you, showed
that number. Another slide showed an estimated one million dollars ($1,000,000) to
three million dollars ($3,000,000). It said rehabilitation that was my mistake. It
should have said "reconstruction" because most of our collector roads needs
reconstruction at least in part these days. Let us just assume that somewhere
between a million and two (2) million average on that, you are looking about one
hundred million dollars ($100,000,000) for sixty-four (64) miles of road at a cost of
one million dollars ($1,000,000) to two million dollars ($2,000,000) each, right?
Average cost is like one million eight hundred dollars ($1,800,000) or one million
seven hundred dollars ($1,700,000). That is one hundred million dollars
($100,000,000)just for the collector roads, which that does not count the two hundred
forty-four (244) miles of local roads. If we get to where we reconstruct all of those
roads in ten (10) years hopefully sooner but in looking at the numbers it may take
that long. We then should be looking at where on the collector roads we are looking
at the rehabilitation where we are just resurfacing. That cost is somewhere on the
order of maybe four hundred thousand dollars ($400,000)per mile as opposed to a one
million dollars ($1,000,000) to two million dollars ($2,000,000) per mile. Then you
are looking at the cost to resurface all of those roads without the dig outs that are
needed to correct the damage of maybe twenty-five million being the backlog at that
point. That is the example of getting back to Councilmember Evslin's question,
excuse me, and is that ideally on the collector roads side instead of having a one
hundred million dollars ($100,000,000) backlog now, you are looking at twenty-five
million dollars ($25,000,000) backlog. Eight (8) years ago, on the collector roads, it
would have not been twenty-five million dollars ($25,000,000) but it might have been
fifteen million dollars ($15,000,000) potentially on the collector roads. That is the
point. We are behind which is why we needed the GET so we are able to catch up and
get to a point down the road we are able to have a sustainable preventative
maintenance and preservation program that cost a whole lot less than what we are
looking at for the next several years.
Councilmember Kagawa: If you put yourselves in our shoes. If you are
on this end and you heard six (6) years ago the backlog was two hundred million
dollars ($200,000,000) and six (6) years later, you are hearing it is three hundred
million dollars ($300,000,000), I mean, seriously on this end it sounds like a lot of
excuses. I am trying to be honest.
Mr. Tabata: I tried to get the money, you were sitting right
there, I tried to get the money.
Councilmember Kagawa: Well, I gave you the money, we were singing
Kumbaya, and now we are saying we are not even going to come close.
Mr. Tabata: Yes, six (6) years later and now we have the
money. We are starting this journey now. We are starting the journey right now.
COUNCIL MEETING 53 MARCH 13, 2019
Councilmember Kagawa: You still have not explained how it became
one hundred million dollars ($100,000,000) more?
Mr. Tabata: It is every year that we did not get money to
address it, it fell behind even more. Every year it compounded.
Councilmember Kagawa: We collect gas taxes, fuel taxes, and all of that
taxes to tell the public we can do zero (0)?
Mr. Tabata: One million two hundred thousand dollars
($1,200,000) is all I was given.
Councilmember Kagawa: One million two hundred thousand dollars
($1,200,000) a year?
Mr. Tabata: That is all I was getting. That is all we got.
You saw the budgets every year. You were sitting right there.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Brun. Follow-up.
Councilmember Brun: If we reconstruct the road, what is the life
expectancy of that?
Mr. Moule: For asphalt pavement, for the collector road
types, the higher volume roads, like the sealing that was discussed here we do not
typically use on the higher volume roads, we would want to resurface those. About
every ten (10) years you need to resurface any road. If you do it well the first time,
you would not have to dig deeply and those costs are three hundred thousand dollars
($300,000) to five hundred thousand dollars ($500,000) a mile in today's dollars. That
is the answer to that questions I think is it is roughly every ten (10) years you are
needing to resurface the busier roads that we have. The lesser volume roads can be
sealed and that is more of the Roads Divisions side than the Engineering Division. It
can be sealed but not paved nearly as often. They do last a lot longer.
Councilmember Brun: Okay, so. Reconstruction is completely
tearing it up and repaving, is that reconstruction?
Mr. Moule: Reconstruction is generally meaning we are
doing more than just taking two (2) inches off.
Councilmember Brun: That is doing the best job?
Mr. Moule: We are going down deeper than that. How
deep is depending on how the bad the conditions are. On Puhi Road, we went down
fourteen (14) inches. On Maluhia and Koloa Road, we are not going down that deep
in part because of the challenges in doing so, we were going to come back up with
asphalt treated base to make it stronger.
COUNCIL MEETING 54 MARCH 13, 2019
Councilmember Brun: So we are looking at in ten (10) years, so in
ten (10) years we will be...the question came up and we will probably be half(1/2). It
will cost us half(1/2) to resurface and we will be probably be one hundred fifty million
dollars ($150,000,000) in backlog? If we are able to catch up with the three hundred
million dollars ($300,000,000) in ten (10) years, but now we need to go back and
resurface? This is why I was asking how long the road will last? If it lasts ten (10)
years, now we need to go back in ten (10) years, and we will be in this same spot that
we are in today or maybe half(1/2) because we just need to reseal. I guess the answer
to that question is we will be one hundred fifty million dollars ($150,000,000) in the
hole?
Mr. Moule: I think it will be a lot less than that. I just
gave you an example on the collector roads going from one hundred million dollars
($100,000,000)which is roughly what we have now down to twenty five million dollars
($25,000,000) for collector roads alone. This is one fourth (1/4) the cost if we are just
resurfacing instead of going deeper. For local roads, it is probably a similar number
right, and the bridges of course, a lot of the bridges we have is one hundred (100)
years old, right, or approaching that? Bridges last a lot longer so the bridge backlog
if we are just replacing one (1), or almost down (inaudible) bridges are coming up
later this year. These bridges will now last for seventy (70) to one hundred (100)
years. We will not have to really touch those other than doing minor preventative
maintenance. I think the backlog will be a lot lower than that. We have not done
those detailed calculations at this point, but I think it is closer or less than one
hundred million dollars ($100,000,000).
Councilmember Brun: So in about ten (10)years we still will be about
one hundred million dollars ($100,000,000). We will probably never catch up?
Mr. Moule: I think less than that, more likely sixty (60) or
seventy (70); it is a lot less. But again, we have not done the calculations in detail.
Councilmember Brun: That is fair. Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Evslin. This is not follow-up,
you have any question you would like to ask.
Councilmember Evslin: It is still a follow-up. Once we are in a place
where hopefully we are in preventative maintenance, do you foresee that we are able
to sunset the excise and we will be able to handle it through an increase in gas tax?
This is recognizing that the gas tax will have to increase significantly to account for
the inflation and increasing efficiency over that time.
Mr. Tabata: That is the reason the State is piloting,
implementing, and is being tested. That pilot will yield something. If that will be
the solution to return the revenue to a sustainable amount then time will tell.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: I think we do not have control over whether
we are going to get more GET money after ten (10) years or not. I can foresee we will
COUNCIL MEETING 55 MARCH 13, 2019
probably want it at that time, but it is up to the State to either allow us to continue
charging the GET or they will probably take the GET, who knows in ten (10) years.
Mr. Moule: Let me try to address that very briefly. On
the point from the previous budget we had for resurfacing as Lyle was talking about
which is one million two hundred thousand dollars ($1,200,000) a year, I will say that
ten (10) years from now that number still will not be enough. With the inflation as
well. I think that one way or the other, the legislative bodies, State legislature, you
all as County Council will need to figure out how are we going to fund our roads
knowing at that point we should have a good preventative maintenance and
preservation program in place. What funding do we need to make that sustainable?
I think it will more than one million two hundred thousand dollars ($1,200,000) but
it will be less than the GET that we have today. Where it is, it is probably closer to
the lower end than the higher end, but still well above the one million two hundred
thousand dollars ($1,200,000) compared to what we are now. Fifteen (15)? What was
the number?
Mr. Tabata: Fifteen (15), yes.
Mr. Moule: That is a significant difference. We should be
somewhere in the middle and it will be up to the future legislative bodies to figure
out exactly how to do that. It will probably be with some sort of use mileage tax that
is being discussed now as opposed to fuel tax. By ten (10) years, I suspect that will
be in place.
Councilmember Evslin: I have my final question. A STIP allocated, a
road that needs resurfacing would be a higher priority for STIP funding, right? Is
that then have a reverse incentive for us to let roads get into that condition and if we
get into a place where we are doing mostly preventative...
Mr. Tabata: In order to get the STIP money, we needed to
show the State that we have a maintenance program. In the Roads Division, they
have catalogued all of our roads and we provided the information to show we are
doing this maintenance. The product that we are putting out there now will show
them that after five (5) years, we went in and did the sealing, the crack sealing, we
did all of this work. They have it all in the inventory that will show the State that
we have a computerized Maintenance Management System that we are employing
that allows Engineering to be able to bring forward these STIP projects. Part of the
projects we are talking about we need to show them and across the State that we are
meeting this criteria to prioritize. Part of the criteria as mentioned is we are needing
to look for pedestrian facilities, bicycle facilities, and transportation. If we are able
to capsulate all of them into one project, changes are we will be at a higher priority
verses another County that would come in to strictly resurface a road.
Councilmember Evslin: So where I was going with the question is if in
ten (10) years we are doing mostly preventative maintenance, in a perfect world
where we get to where you folks want to be, would that potentially mean we will get
less STIP funding because we have less roads that need resurfacing?
COUNCIL MEETING 56 MARCH 13, 2019
Mr. Moule: No. The formula that the State uses is largely
based on the vehicle miles traveled on each island. I will say that the last time they
have told us about it, Kaua`i has a little higher than what would be the allocation in
part because of the numerous bridges on both State and County roads that are sort
of behind on Kaua`i. It would not go down just because all of our roads are paved. It
would mean that, that pavement (inaudible) is being used by us and the State to
prioritize sort of...once we have this much funding which one should we do first? I
guess is what is less used for rather than let us not give Kaua`i money because all the
roads have been paved. Right. That is not how it is supposed to work and it is not
how it has worked in the past.
Councilmember Evslin: Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i: So on your slide at the bottom of page 11, you
say 2019, eight million dollars ($8,000,000) out to bid. When I looked on the 2000
Paving Plan on the website, it actually shows seventeen point six (17.6) miles total
paving with additive alternatives and six point one two (6.12) miles for total crack
filled surface sealing. So that is a total of twenty-three point seven six (23.76) miles
for 2018.
Mr. Tabata: We put out more than the money we have
available because if we were to get favorable prices like we have had the last two (2)
years, we are able to quickly add additional roads.
Councilmember Kuali`i: So that plan that is on the website is
twenty-three point seven six (23.76) miles, but what went out to bid was forty (40)
miles or even more?
Mr. Tabata: No. It was eight million dollars ($8,000,000)
worth. The amount we do is based on how much money we have.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Right.
Mr. Tabata: We have this backlog, which we need to put
out for more than money we have available as an additive.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Did you not start by saying it was twenty-four
million dollars ($24,000,000)?
Mr. Tabata: No. That is what is expected from the GET.
Councilmember Kuali`i: When you said seventy-five percent (75%),
twenty-five percent (25%)?
Mr. Tabata: Yes. We will only get about fifteen (15) a year.
COUNCIL MEETING 57 MARCH 13, 2019
Councilmember Kuali`i: Right, but for sure 2019 is eight million
dollars ($8,000,000)?
Mr. Tabata: It is half (1/2) the money, it is only half (1/2).
So this year, say it was twelve million dollars ($12,000,000) which is half(1/2) of the
twenty-four (24), of which we were given eight (8).
Councilmember Kuali`i: So, I mean when you put this online, citizens
are able to go and look when they are concerned about their particular street, they
are able to go and look there?
Mr. Tabata: Yes.
Councilmember Kuali`: So, that is the plan for 2019 those
twenty-three point seven six (23.76) miles?
Mr. Tabata: Yes. If they come in.
Councilmember Kuali`i: If you have your bids out?
Mr. Tabata: Yes it is all depending on the bids.
Councilmember Kuali`i: So, you made it sound like with the whole
thing about competition and three (3) pavers, now only two (2) pavers. Are we limited
on how much of the roads we are able to touch and how much we are able to repair
because of the funding or because of the ability of pavers to do the job that we need
them to do?
Mr. Tabata: Funding.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Funding. This posting of the paving schedule,
you are only posting it one (1) year at a time? You have talked about ten (10) years'
worth of things to do and you have all your criteria of how you decide which streets
get priority, and I am sure there is a lot more than, we all know there is a lot more
than what is being addressed on this 2019 schedule. I am wondering if for the citizens
benefit, they are calling your office when they are wanting to know about their
particular street. I know some of them are calling our offices.
Mr. Tabata: Yes, we do get calls. We do get calls.
Councilmember Kuali`i: If they were able to see this posted for more
than a year out, even though it is just a forecast, an estimate based on your criteria,
and obviously you have not gone out for bid yet. That might be useful information.
Mr. Tabata: We hesitate to do that because of how the
condition in roads changes quickly.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Well, it will only get worse right? If you know
what you have to...
•
COUNCIL MEETING 58 MARCH 13, 2019
Mr. Tabata: That will facilitate if you are moving roads up
or down.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Alright, and the priority. Okay, thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Let me set the context
for this question. Last week for our National Association of Counties (NACo)
Conference, I was able to meet with our Federal Delegation. Kaua`i's requests, one
of the primary requests, was for this matching funds that we are talking about, this
federal fund. My question is and there is a couple of things. One, they are already
headed into State decision-making on State priorities. So her request, one of the
Senators requests was that we would coordinate with them on what it is we are
looking for in terms of developing that kind of fund in the near future. She also had
said that the criticism in the past was that funds were available in Hawai`i and it was
not taken advantage of. It could have been because we never had a match in the
past? My question is about knowing that a big infrastructure package is coming
forward and that we might be able to tap into even bigger moneys. What are we doing
in terms of planning how we increase this STIP funds? I have heard what is needing
to happen in terms of priority and what we need to focus on. Out of three hundred
and eight (308) roads, how many of it is currently funded under STIP and what
percentage can we anticipate increasing in order to kind of balance where we are
short funded?
Mr. Tabata: There is only sixty-four (64) lane miles is
eligible for federal funding.
Councilmember Chock: Can we increase that?
Mr. Tabata: No. It is based on a formula that the State
has across the State with HDOT based on traffic volumes and destinations.
Councilmember Chock: Are all sixty-four (64) miles funded?
Mr. Tabata: Six (6) years ago, was the last review of our
federal aid rules. We had to fight to keep several of our roads on the list. They wanted
to cut back more for the County. We needed to come in with information to justify in
keeping certain roads on the STIP.
•
(Councilmember Brun was noted as not present.)
Councilmember Chock: So the answer I am getting is, "Bring it on."
Mr. Tabata: Yes. Everything is controlled by HDOT.
Councilmember Chock: Out of the sixty-four (64), how much of that is
funded by the federal government.
COUNCIL MEETING 59 MARCH 13, 2019
Mr. Tabata: It can all be, but we need the projects brought
forward. That is what Engineering's function has been.
Councilmember Chock: I guess my question is what percentage of it is
now funded that we can anticipate getting funding for?
Mr. Moule: I can try and answer that if I looked up the
projects on the current STIP. For the road projects, I am just trying to add up the
ones on the top of my head. I do not want to miss any. If we are looking at out of the
sixty-four (64) in the next four (4) years STIP, I think we are looking at about fifteen
(15) to twenty (20) miles that are programmed. That is how short we are. The point
being what happened essentially is we said this is not going to be fundable with STIP.
Lyle talked about Ka'apuni Road earlier and that is being down by Ed's crew in Roads
Divisions. That is not being funded by STIP because it is one of those that there is
not a lot of potential for improvements on it for short-term. Just resurfacing is easy
to do and you do not need to run it through a STIP project because we do not have the
funding. We do not have enough STIP funds to fund that and the other ones that are
on the list. That is just one (1) example. There are plenty of others like that. There
would not be an issue if for example the STIP funds doubled for the County of Kaua`i.
We would have no problem, we do not need any more lane miles of road to be made
STIP eligible in order for us to spend those funds if that answers the earlier part of
your question.
Councilmember Chock: I think what I had heard is we are about a
quarter (1/4) supported out of the sixty-four (64) miles?
Mr. Moule: Yes, a quarter (1/4) or one-third (1/3) maybe?
Councilmember Chock: So there is a lot of room for improvement.
Mr. Moule: Yes, there is certainly no doubt.
Councilmember Chock: My request is, we should try and plan for that.
Mr. Moule: Okay.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: I have a follow-up question. If we lobbied the
Feds about getting more money to Kaua`i particularly for matching funds, does that
need to go through the State and is the State going to hold up that money? Of course
I think that all of the islands are going to be fighting for STIP money. I think all
except Maui. Big Island passed GET, we passed GET. Of course we would like to
maximize our dollar by doing roads that we have eighty percent (80%) match up.
Where we pay twenty percent (20%) and they pay eighty percent (80%). If the State
is going to limit us on the amount of money we are able to match, is there any way to
kind of increase that amount? Or get money directly from the Feds knowing we do
not have a Federal Highway either.
COUNCIL MEETING 60 MARCH 13, 2019
Mr. Tabata: As Michael mentioned, it is based on vehicle
miles traveled and it is divided across the State to a percentage. We are just rounding
numbers. Our percentage is between seven (7) and eight percent (8%) and that is
how we get to that eight million dollars ($8,000,000).
Council Chair Kaneshiro: So if the Federal folks say that we see that
Kaua`i is ready to have more matching funds, they are not able to get...we would not
be able to...
Mr. Tabata: That is what I talked about. In the cycle, for
the federal fiscal year cycle, we are coming up on it and if we have projects that are
shovel-ready and someone else's project across the State falls, we will be ready. The
State will look at us and say, "Well if you folks are ready, you have all your T's crossed
and your I's dotted, and you are ready to roll," they will give us the money.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: This will still come from the State and it is not
from the Federal.
Mr. Moule: The normal STIP funds are allocated to the
State by the Federal basically. They distribute that around the State. There are
special programs where the County is able to apply for grant funds. For example, to
the Federal directly as we have done. For the most part the normal STIP funds are
allocated Statewide. I am not awear of any potential for us to have the Federal say
"Oh, Kaua`i gets this additional STIP funds." It is really the State that gets the
additional STIP funds and that will get administered by the State. If you go back to
slide 14 it talks about how the State administers that program so we are able to use
some of those funds.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Yes, I know we will go up to NACo ever year
and lobby for money. It will go to the State. If we are doing our hard lobbying, we
would like to see the fruits of our labor, too, and maybe get more money. Again, I
understand. We need to have our projects ready and if any projects throughout the
rest of the State fall through, hopefully we are able to capitalize on that extra money.
Mr. Tabata: The example of getting more money was on
Kaumuali`i Highway where the State was ready. So for Kaumuali`i Highway and the
Mill Bridge, those were moneys that fell out from someone else's project and it ended
up on Kaua`i. I mean, if you talk about the State had all of these moneys that they
were not spending it, so that money ended up here. That was not normal for us to
get that. Being that the State at that the time was ready, they go that funding.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: I am hearing that we do not have enough
money for what we need to do or we are pushing it out? I just want to ask, is there a
separate pot of money for anything new? I know there are a couple of roundabouts
that have been considered near Kapa'a High School, one (1) on Kolo Road in Kilauea
Road, I think it is called Namahana in Kilauea; are those ever going to get built?
COUNCIL MEETING 61 MARCH 13, 2019
Mr. Tabata: It is in our STIP program. It is part of the
STIP program.
Councilmember Cowden: So some of that STIP money will go towards
new projects rather than only in the repair. I understand that repair is needing to
happen first in the community. There is a number including Eggerking, there is a
thought towards extending that. I think that our population is going to increase, and
it seems like people have so many cars per family, how are we going to be able to...if
we do not have any extra feet of roads, collector roads.
Mr. Tabata: The Kawaihau Project in specific is a part of
the Safe Routes to School funding, but it is ran through the same STIP program
because it is all Federal money. A majority of it will come from the State then merge
with Safe Routes to School funding and our local match. As Michael was saying, we
are limited to the total dollars every year. As we move and prepare to be ready and
deliver the project to construction, we need to look at being careful that we have the
rest of the State STIP Projects out there to balance and fund it appropriately and in
time. They are on the project list.
Councilmember Cowden: Just for my clarity, those are parallel to this
eight million dollars ($8,000,000) that we are talking about or the one hundred
million dollars ($100,000,000) that we might be getting. Is it parallel funds or if we
get that Safe Route to School Project or the Crosswalk in Kekaha, is that taking away
from this (inaudible).
Mr. Tabata: We have packaged this with a resurfacing
project with additional treatments.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay, I got it. Thank you.
Mr. Moule: That is the main point is that we have added
improvements to our preservation projects.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay, I see.
Mr. Moule: When that makes sense. As we have talked
about in slide 16, we have also looked to potentially add STIP Projects for new routes
entirely like Eggerking, for example. In the current STIP, we did not propose any
new routes because we had so many needs on preservation, we added some
improvements to some of the preservation jobs, but we did not do projects where the
primary purpose verses something totally new.
Councilmember Cowden: So, when we are saying striping like the
crosswalk near the school in Kekaha that I know people are feeling very urgent, that
would be part of a preservation project as we fix area we would put those there.
COUNCIL MEETING 62 MARCH 13, 2019
Mr. Moule: Some of the smaller things like that I think
we are able to do and we are looking to do that in this case was part of our Operating
Budget because they are not expensive.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay. Probably the Kilauea School Safe
Route include just some signs.
Mr. Moule: Yes, some of the stuff in the back of Kilauea
School is an Operating Budget type of expense. Putting a roundabout at the
intersection of Kilauea and Kolo Road is a Capital expense that would be and it is
included in one of our STIP Projects.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay, thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: So, we need to a lunchbreak at 12:30 p.m.
Councilmember Kuali`i has one more question. We will take our lunchbreak and we
are going to come back and see if there are any more questions and vote on this.
Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Hopefully this one is quick. We talked about
it before when you talked about maintenance. You said preventative maintenance,
pothole repairs, and emergency repairs. When a constituent wants to call in a
complaint over a pothole repair, how does that get addressed, and what makes that
an emergency? How do you differentiate between the pothole repair request and the
emergency repair request? You did give the example about Ka'apuni Road and how
those intermediate repairs and you had decided to just go with it. At one point you
were waiting on the Department of Water and we were getting a lot of complaints
about Ka'apuni Road. What does the citizen get when they call you for a pothole
repair?
EDMOND RENAUD, Chief of Field Operations & Maintenance: Ed
Renaud, for the record. Hello everybody. I know where you are going.
Councilmember Kuali`i: We even had testimony today, right?
Mr. Renaud: Yes, I heard all of that. The thing is we are
going in there to do a temporary pothole repair and not to do reconstruction on any •
of that. The call comes in and we have within twenty-four (24) hours to get out there.
Depending on the weather, they have two (2) different companies that supply them
with products that they are able to put down. It is coal mix but it is a coal mix that
is different from...it is a permanent. We are waiting for calls that are coming in,
there is a lady in our office that takes everything from the complaintive to the
solution.
Councilmember Kuali`i: So, it happens pretty quickly. You said
twenty-four (24) hours to go and evaluate the situation.
COUNCIL MEETING 63 MARCH 13, 2019
Mr. Renaud: I have been writing roads and it is not that
quick because the weather changes. We have been talking and there is a different
plan that is going to happen to get that moved faster.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: With that, we are going to take a lunch break
and we will be back at 1:30 p.m. We have a Public Hearing and finish the rest of our
meeting up.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 12:30 p.m.
The meeting was called back to order at 1:31 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
Mr. Sato: This will bring us back to page 2, item
C 2019-51, islandwide road resurfacing and repairs item.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: I will suspend the rules. Do we have any
further questions for the Roads Division from the members?
Councilmember Evslin: I have one (1) question.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Evslin.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Mr. Tabata: Lyle Tabata, Deputy County Engineer, for the
record.
Councilmember Evslin: Thank you for coming up. I actually have
two (2) related questions.
Mr. Tabata: Yes.
Councilmember Evslin: Number one, where is the best place for a
community member to submit a pothole complaint?
Mr. Tabata: The Roads Division.
Councilmember Evslin: Can they find the E-mail address from the
website?
Mr. Tabata: Yes, or just call.
Councilmember Cowden: Just in case someone is watching, what
number can the public call?
Mr. Tabata: I do not have that number, I am sorry.
Councilmember Evslin: Once the call goes in, I think you mentioned
twenty-four (24) hours, but what is the process?
COUNCIL MEETING 64 MARCH 13, 2019
Mr. Tabata: They log it in and create a work order, it gets
sent to the appropriate baseyard, and it gets put into the system.
Councilmember Evslin: The other question I had might be a little
broader, but when you folks are looking at doing resurfacing, do you take into account
potential sea-level rise in the area, based on the Hawai`i Sea Level Rise Vulnerability
and Adaptation Report?
Mr. Tabata: There are two (2) sea-level rise calculations
and the horizon is beyond the ten (10) years. At this time, no, because we are trying
to capture the moment of present day needs, but the Engineering Division will be
looking at future needs. These reports are just coming out to us now and so it really
was not on our radar as high of a priority. Especially, because of the horizons they
are looking at, thirty-five (35) and fifty (50) years.
Councilmember Evslin: The Hawai`i Sea Level Rise Vulnerability and
Adaption Report says six point five (6.5) miles of roadway on Kaua`i would be flooded
with three point two (3.2) feet of sea-level rise. Do you folks know what portion of the
six point five (6.5) miles would be County?
Mr. Tabata: So right now we are participating in the
Westside Community Vulnerability Assessment and those are primarily on State
Department of Transportation (DOT) roads, a little bit in Waimea Valley and some
in Kekaha. I guess because the State highway is in front of us, we will see what they
do to protect their roadway and in turn, we are working closely with them to look at •
long-term solutions. Right now, with that plan and the Westside Community Plan
being developed, we have been participating with the community and getting
feedback from them. Based on those plans, once merged, we will create a longer term
solution.
Councilmember Evslin: Okay. Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: The number for reporting potholes is
241-4847.
Mr. Tabata: To the Roads Division.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: To report any potholes.
Mr. Tabata: Yes.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you. This item about roads-in-limbo
keeps coming up, circling back to the Council every year. With the General Excise
Tax (GET) enacted, are there any plans to try and (inaudible) within this ten-year
period. If so, do you have a list of those roads that we might be able to at least be able
to communicate with the public that we are looking at?
COUNCIL MEETING 65 MARCH 13, 2019
Mr. Tabata: Good question. Just as I mentioned, we are
trying to start surveying all of our County non-federal aide bridges and culverts, we
are also beginning to review, at the Administration's request, the roads-in-limbo,
which we have residents and we provide services to. Again, that got delayed because
of the storm reaction, but we are aware of the list of roads that are potentially and
that will be forthcoming also. By the way, I would like to offer an apology to
Councilmember Kagawa for "loss of my cool."
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Brun.
Councilmember Brun: You said we are down to two (2) paving
companies on the island.
Mr. Tabata: That is what I believe that bid on our projects,
but I do not know for sure. I know at one time we had four (4).
Councilmember Brun: I know one (1) of them is still here and that
was when they did some State jobs. It was kind of rocky. Did the quality of the work
improve, because we are going out to bid and we only have two (2), I am pretty sure
that they are one of them...
Mr. Tabata: I need to double-check with the State, but I
know that company that did the work for the State had to redo their work.
Councilmember Brun: Yes. Did the quality of their work improve
from that time?
Mr. Tabata: I believe they have.
Councilmember Brun: Okay, because what I am worried about is if
we are going out to bid and we only have two (2) companies and usually you go for
the lower bid, but we take the lower bid and the quality is not good, we will lose out
in the long run.
Mr. Tabata: I believe once the company qualifies on the bid
and we offer a contract, it is on us to manage them appropriately. I am not going to
make excuses for them or other management issues, but I believe it will fall on us to
manage the contract appropriately. If something is not done correctly, we will have
to remedy it on our own and deal with the quality issues ourselves.
Councilmember Brun: That is exactly my concern. Usually you try
and give it to the lowest bid, but if the quality is not there, we need to really look at
how we give out this bid for the money that we are going to be using.
Mr. Tabata: Exactly. That point is well-taken.
Councilmember Brun: Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING 66 MARCH 13, 2019 •
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Are there any further questions? If not, thank
you Mr. Tabata. While the rules are still suspended, do we have any registered
speakers?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Yes, we do. We have one (1) registered
speaker, Trevor Ashworth. •
Mr. Ashworth: Thank you. Trevor Ashworth, for the record.
It was a great presentation and very informative, but what I think I heard is that we
know sort of what the backlog is both at the County-level as well as at the State-level
and at least the progress at the County-level is due to funding, that is what I sort of
heard. We are living in a lower interest rate market; have we explored not only the
road repair, but other capital improvements that we need to make as a County, gotten
that entire list together and said, "Should we be going out to the bond market and
selling bonds today in this low interest rate environment versus in five (5), six (6), or
seven (7) years from now," where one would expect interest rates are going to be
higher than they are today. If we go back twelve (12) months, we are looking at
interest rates on average of one point four percent (1.4%), today, we are over two and
one half percent (2.5%), you can get on a general savings account, so just something
to think about. If a lot of this backlog could be solved with a money problem and of
course there are other capital improvements that also probably could be solved with
more money. Just something that came to mind. Another item that was talked about,
the Safe Routes to School program, and living out in Kekaha we recently had a
sidewalk that was put in under that program, and one of the aspects of that sidewalk
was to put in grass seed and sprinklers and to pay Kaua`i Nursery & Landscaping,
Inc. for the next twelve (12) months to come out and make sure that the sprinklers
work, the grass is mowed, and make sure that the entire area between the road and
the sidewalk looks nice. Well, prior to the sidewalk, that maintenance was all done
by the homeowners, even though that was not technically their land, but all of the
homeowners just took care of that beautification. I am wondering if in some of the
Safe Routes to School funding that we get, can we look at ways in which we can
partner either with the local homeowners or with the private industry who are
looking to make investments in the community rather it be the seed companies or
other businesses, so that we can take some of those funds out of there and then
potentially use them to do more Safe Routes to School programs. Again, just a
thought. Based on some of the questions, comments were around, "No, that is not a
County road, that is a State road." What are we doing? Are we asking the State to
come to these Council Meetings? How are we holding the State accountable, because
a lot of the residents do not really know if it is a County road or a State road and
certainly the tourists do not understand that. While the County might understand
what is County and State, like I said, the vast population does not understand.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: That is your time. You can have another
three (3) minutes, if you want, if there is no one else in the audience that wants to
speak for their first time. We are on the roads item. Okay, you are going to have to
come back, Trevor.
Mr. Ashforth: Okay.
COUNCIL MEETING 67 MARCH 13, 2019
DALE ROSENFELT: Aloha, I am Dale Rosenfelt. I have just put in
a request for reimbursement for two (2) of my tires and an alignment that audibly
popped on Olohena Road, lost air, and needs to be replaced. Olohena Road has been
a real problem. The road that I live on, Waipouli, that comes off the top of Olohena
Road. As soon as I spoke with Scott, Mario, and Michael in the morning, that night
I had a blowout. The next day, it was not repaired, but the day after, it was. There
was a skim coat of asphalt put on the worst of the places, which now a week later is
gone. The holes are just as deep, at the far end of Waipouli Road, just before it turns
hard. We have a lot of trees up there. I know that the trees are part of the issue. The
root systems are destroying the roads up there. There were some tree trimming done
on Waipouli and Kainahola Road, I would like to know what type of thing is going to
happen to help the tree systems not be part of the problem as well as the repairs.
Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone else in the audience wishing
to speak for a first time? Is there anyone wishing to speak for a second time?
Mr. Ashworth: Thank you. Trevor Ashworth, for the record.
Just one (1) other comment. I had read even before this meeting around the State
looking at changing the gas tax to a mileage-based tax and I would like to add a
comment that I do think it would represent a hardship for those that live out in the
west side, especially. There are more affordable housing out on the west side, but a
lot of the jobs are in Po`ipu, Lihu`e, and the rest of the island. I think we should take
that into account when the County is giving its feedback to the State on the change.
Additionally, and this came out in one of the west side community meetings that
thirty-five (35) years ago, there were one (1) or two (2) four-wheel drive vehicles at
least in the Kekaha area. Now it seems as though everyone has two (2) to three (3)
four-wheel drive vehicles. Maybe an alternative and a way to raise additional funds
because of the wear and tear on the road is due, as we heard, to the weight of the
vehicles and not just commercial, but also personal vehicles...is to look at maybe after
your first heavy duty or four-wheel drive vehicle, maybe the registration fees on those
second, third, fourth, and fifth vehicles, becomes more expensive. Therefore, that will
help to shoulder some of the burden of the roads, but at a minimum I think they
should take into account the burden that you will place on people that live farther
away from their job and they will have to travel. I do not know the avenue to provide
that feedback to the State.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Thank you. Vehicles do pay a vehicle weight
tax based on their weight. Is there anyone else wishing to testify for a second time?
If not, I will call this meeting back to order.
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there any final discussion on roads from the
members? Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you. I am a little concerned about the
comments by the Administration that they intend to fund twenty-five percent (25%)
COUNCIL MEETING 68 MARCH 13, 2019
of the GET revenues for the bus. Currently, we fund the bus about nine million
dollars ($9,000,000), in total, and I think that is sufficient. We have not received the
efficiency study back from them as far as how they are performing, what kind of
improvements they can make with their current funding, and yet our intention is to
add another four million dollars ($4,000,000) to the bus budget before we even know
how efficient the bus is running now. It baffles me. I hope that the Finance Director
will consider some of the thoughts because we get the final say on the budget. I will
not be supporting any increase to the bus until I get that efficiency study back. I
would prefer instead of doing an eight million dollar ($8,000,000) share with the bus,
I would prefer something more like twenty-two million dollars ($22,000,000) for roads
and two million dollars ($2,000,000) for the bus. That would make more sense since
we have a severe backlog that now has grown by another one hundred million dollars
($100,000,000). I cannot see how we are going to fix the problem without more needed
attention and I would hope that as we proceed forward that the Administration will
consider some of our thoughts about the way we are going about things because if you
just take a drive; go from Kekaha all the way to the north shore and look at the
conditions of the roads. Ask residents as you go and you see the conditions of the
roads, I am talking Hanapepe Heights, Kekaha, Hanapepe Town, Waimea, all the
way to Olohena, you name it; look at the condition of the roads. Kapahi Road,
Kawaihau Road, and ask the residents, "Can you afford to pay any more in taxes?
Can you afford it coming out of your car registration, your gas, your vehicle weight,
and your property tax?" I can guarantee you that the answer will be, "Heck no. What
are you folks doing with the money now?" I am fortunate, I have true experience, my
dad used to be the Deputy County Engineer for the County of Kaua`i in the `70s.
During that time, they built all of the neighborhood centers that you see, they took
care of opening all of the river mouths on Kaua`i, regularly, and of course they
maintained the roads. We had no roads that looked like today and they did it without
the addition of a one-half percent (0.5%) GET surcharge. Somewhere along the line,
we let this backlog grow. Yes, it is not Lyle's fault, but somewhere along the line we
dropped the ball, we need to do more, I do not know how we are going to do more but
giving a big chunk to the bus, and not give attention to the immediate need that
majority of our residents want. They want our roads to be fixed and our bridges to
be fixed. We have over one hundred (100) year old bridges that are spalling badly,
concreate falling off, reinforcing bars (rebars) exposed, and our metal bridges are all
rusted. I mean it is bad. I am passionate about it because I only have one and
one-half(1.5) years more before I end trying to do something about it and I just want
to give my best to the public who elected us. Do the best we can. You are going to
collect a tax from them, then do the best job you can and I am not talking about doing
this beautification projects, I am talking about fixing the roads out there that have
been deteriorating for many years. I plead with the Administration. I want to help
you folks. I do not want to fight with you folks, but whatever way we can, let us fix
the problem because even when I try to back up the County's side, the public tells me,
"You are making excuses." I really feel like I am.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Brun.
Councilmember Brun: When this GET came up, first, I did not
support it and then it came around and I saw what we needed and we hear
Mr. Renaud's name out there of, "Not doing this," but I just do not think we gave him
COUNCIL MEETING 69 MARCH 13, 2019
the money he needed to do the roads. I think that was our problem and now with this
GET and I kind of had the same concern as Councilmember Kagawa when we put in
eight million dollars ($8,000,000) to the bus or whatever it is, I think we need to really
cut back on that until that study comes out and we are efficient with the bus, which
we are not right now. We heard it from them. Until they can make the changes, then
we can put money into the bus. I feel like the Administration's priorities were not...we
could have put a lot more to roads and we did not. I heard from this budget coming
up that we are taking money out from different places and putting it to other
Departments that does not need to be there. Roads and housing is our issue right now
and whatever money we can put towards that is what we need to do. Let us not take
it and do all the "fluff." That is the reason I bought up about the bike path, because
we need to fix the roads. We need a bike path on the west side, I hear it all the time,
but I do not want a bike path on the side of the road; that is just dangerous. We need
to do it through the backroad. I am not against bike paths, but we need to do it right.
I just feel like we are not putting enough money to the Roads Division that they need
to do their job and hopefully with this Administration, we are going to take this a lot
more serious and put a lot more money where we need to, to get these roads done
because that is all we hear from people every single time is roads. If we do not do
anything about it, we will see at budget time where we need to cut and add to different
places, but I mean this year we are going to look at the budget a little closer than we
did the years prior. Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: I just want to thank the Administration for
the update on where we are headed with our roads. I think what I heard was about
half of the testimony and what I hear on a daily basis more or less is not only the
roads, but also the traffic. It has been an issue since I have been on this Council. I
want to take a little different perspective on this because I agree we need to get our
roads maintained and I think as you can see today, we have an Administration who
is taking a look at it and where we have fallen way behind, even in the amount of
time that we have actually generated the list to maintain. In regards to
transportation, I think that it is also something that the people are asking for as well.
They are asking for solutions and we need to be able to respond to that. The
percentage that we are looking at dictates where they are, meaning a short-range
transit plan has been enacted, completed, and that those studies have been acted on
and we should be hearing very soon and we have not had an update on their progress.
That would help determine what it is they should be asking for in terms of
improvements, so I think it is a little bit premature at least from my perspective for
us to make that determination. We will be hearing the budget and its details at least
by tomorrow with the State of Address from our Mayor, and we should be looking at
how it is we can support all of the concerns of our people on this island. I am a huge
advocate of fixing these roads; let us make sure we can address the other concern for
our people, which is the traffic conditions. Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: I want to thank you very much for coming in
and giving a quality presentation. I, like Councilmember Chock, look forward to
COUNCIL MEETING 70 MARCH 13, 2019
hearing what our new Mayor has to say on Friday and I have a handful of ideas
about...
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Thursday.
Councilmember Cowden: Thursday, excuse me. Tomorrow morning. I
am going to listen first and definitely look at how we can do some funding. It seems
like if we can do some of these extra side streets connectors, we might be reducing
some traffic, so we have a lot that we need done. Thank you so much.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Evslin.
Councilmember Evslin: I want to thank the Administration for
coming today. I learned a lot from your presentation and I appreciate it. I think it is
interesting and valuable that we took on talking about the retirement system and
roads on the same day. These dual crises are affecting every small government across
the Country, as the economist call it, "A fiscal ice age." As our population growth
slows and our economic growth slows, everywhere around the Country is facing these
same problems, and all are trying to deal with them. One thing that drives the road
maintenance issue even more is the fact that the gas tax is unique among taxes and
that every year is worth a little bit less, right, because of inflation and because of
increasing mileage of cars. The gas tax is probably the only tax that needs to be
continually increased just to keep pace with that and the federal government has not
increased the gas tax since 1992, I believe, and they have been trying to shoulder the
burden on the State and Counties, so we need to pick up the slack in some fashion. I
understand the reason for the excise tax to get us out of this hole. I would like to see
going forward, I hope to be sitting here in ten (10) years approximately, figure out a
way for us to phase and to ensure that when that ten-year sunset comes up, we are
prepared to handle that through other non-regressive sources and recognizing that
the gas tax has to be increased just to keep pace with inflation. I appreciate that
conversation again and we will be battling this issue for the rest of our life, probably.
Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i: I, too, want to say thank you for coming today,
for the presentation, and for all the information. I was not someone who supported
the General Excise Tax. I think it is a tax that affects the poorest among us the worst
disproportionately. The fact that it is there in place, it is even more important that
we deliver as a County and that we be as productive as possible and we just be
accountable. I think every year we will be looking at this very closely at budget and
we need to do better. We need to maximize the roads, address it, be faster, get more
done, and the citizens will know. We hear from them day-in-and-day-out. We
definitely need to make sure that we are responding to their complaints about the
roads and fixing them. You have your criteria and priority and all of that, but we need
to get them all done and not just the first and second priority, but the third and fourth
as well. Because for everyone, their issue, is the number one priority and maybe it
will take "squeaky wheel" and what have you, but I am sure we just hear more and
more from our citizens, so let us make sure we deliver in purpose. Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING 71 MARCH 13, 2019
Council Chair Kaneshiro: I just want to say thank you for the
presentation. I think you have walked us well through the process of the roads. As
far as taking that step for the General Excise Tax, I know a lot of people...roads have
been an issue for a long time and that is what pushed us over the edge to say, "How
are we going to fix our roads," and we did not have the resources for it. That is why
we voted for the General Excise Tax in the first place. We know what our road
obligation was and there was no money in sight. We were budgeting one million
dollars ($1,000,000) a year in road repair that we would not use in the first year and
then we would combine it with the second year to make two million dollars
($2,000,000) and that is what we would go out to bid on. There is no way that we
would even scratch barely any of our roads at that point, so I think the
Councilmembers that saw that and said, "Realistically there is no way to catch up
with the roads without a General Excise Tax." No one wants to tax the public, but it
is something that had to get done in order to get our roads done. I hear a lot about,
"So, where is the money going and what roads are getting done?" Unfortunately, we
did the vote maybe a year or two ago, the tax did not get into effect until January 1st,
so we have not even received any of the money from the General Excise Tax yet. It
will take time. We are only going to get half the amount of money that was projected
because it is only half a year for General Excise Taxes here, so I just have to say be a
little patient. The money is going to come in. I hope I am on Council when it actually
comes in and you get to see the roads, but if I am not, you will be sure there are going
to be Councilmembers that said, "We did this; we made that happen." But it takes a
while. You saw the procedures that it takes to do a road. There are engineering
studies, there is a lot of work that needs to get done ahead of time to get the roads
ready to be worked on, and it takes time. I can assure you that we are going to hold
the Administration accountable. When the money is here and it is time to start
getting roads done, we will definitely be on them as far as what roads are they getting
done and how are they spending the money and helping the community. Is there
further discussion from the members?
The motion to receive C 2019-51 for the record was then put, and unanimously
carried.
C 2019-53 Communication (02/22/2019) from the Deputy County Engineer,
requesting Council approval of the following:
• Apply for, receive, and expend Emergency Watershed
Protection Grant Funds from the National Resource Conservation
Service (NRCS) — Cooperative Agreement Program, in the amount of
$293,944 (75% of total project cost); and
• Accept and expend $97,981 from Hanalei Traders to be
used for the 25% matching funds requirement for the NRCS project.
The total project cost is estimated to be $391,925 and is to be used for Hanalei
River embankment erosion mitigation.
COUNCIL MEETING 72 MARCH 13, 2019
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to approve C 2019-53, seconded by
Councilmember Brun.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Are there any questions from the members on
this item? I will suspend the rules. Councilmember Cowden.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Mr. Tabata: Good afternoon, Chair, Vice Chair, and
Councilmembers. Lyle Tabata, Deputy County Engineer.
Councilmember Cowden: Thank you. I was looking at the images in
here, but can you just give me a short clarification of what exactly the goal is?
(Councilmember Brun was noted as excused.)
Mr. Tabata: The goal is to repair erosion at the property,
from the river, yes.
Councilmember Cowden: From the river?
Mr. Tabata: Yes.
Councilmember Cowden: It has moved back probably twenty-feet in the
last twenty (20) years, do you know?
MICHAEL TRESLER, Executive Assistant to the Mayor: Mike Tresler,
Public Works. We can call up Andy Hood who is the engineer on the project and he
can answer that question.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay.
ANDREW HOOD: Aloha, my name is Andy Hood. I have been
retained by the Hanalei Traders, the property owners along the project. To answer
your question, over the last thirty (30) years, there has been approximately
thirty (30) to forty (40) feet of retreat of the streambank onto the subject property.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay. So there is auwai that comes out right
there, right? Is that what has basically cut away from that?
Mr. Hood: No.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay.
Mr. Hood: The auwai terminates at the downstream end
of the property and discharges into a low gradient section of the river. What has
happened is that there were some ad hoc dumping of rocks upstream of the river
years and years ago, which reduced the channel capacity and accelerated velocities.
There has been constant encroachment by hau bush growing into the Hanalei River,
COUNCIL MEETING 73 MARCH 13, 2019
which is diminished its wetted surface by about fifty percent (50%) over the last thirty
(30) years and so during flooding events, the streambank is very prone to erosion
because of saturation of the material and the forcing of the main velocity vectors up
against that riverbank of the subject property.
Councilmember Cowden: I am really well awear of that area and it
moved a big amount. I used to actually have a business right in the Trader Building
there. Are you going to cut the hau? Are you going to dredge the river? How are you
going to fix it?
Mr. Hood: We are not going to fix the source of the
problem; we are doing a treatment work, which is along the property. We are putting
in what is called a "bio-wall." It is comprised of toe stabilizing rocks on the bed of the
river, up against the bank of the river and then a bio-wall, which is comprised of a
geosynthetic fabric that interlocks that are filled in with grow media and then you
put native sedges in to grow in to stabilize the bank. It is not a harden structure. The
bags are porous; they will absorb water, but it is basically to control the bank retreat
the erosion of it.
Councilmember Cowden: So it is going to stay where it is at, but it is
just not going to get worse?
Mr. Hood: Yes.
Councilmember Cowden: And that is about a four hundred thousand
dollar ($400,000) job and the trader runners are going to be paying for one quarter
(1/4) of that?
Mr. Hood: Yes.
Councilmember Cowden: And the County is not paying for any of it?
Mr. Hood: The County's portion would be that they have
to...because of the way the EWP (Emergency Watershed Protection) Program is set
up through the NRCS...
Councilmember Cowden: What is EWP?
Mr. Hood: Emergency Watershed Protection Program.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay.
Mr. Hood: Just as background, we became awear of this
program on May 4th or 5th post-flood meeting up at the Hanalei Elementary School.
The NRCS representatives had a table there. They were sharing this information;
we investigated it. They cannot enter into the program with private property owners.
It has to be sponsored by a municipality. Lyle graciously offered to sponsor it. The
agreement that we had was that we would put as little burden on the County, as
possible, since we already have all the permits, we have done all the design, and
COUNCIL MEETING 74 MARCH 13, 2019
everything is ready to go, shovel-ready. We will be having them track their time to
administer the procurement process and they have to be the liaison to the NRCS, so
that time that they accrue on the project will be considered in-kind to the NRCS and
help offset the twenty-five percent (25%) match.
Councilmember Cowden: Am I correct that the grade in that area of
town is low-lying, so when you solve this area, it helps keep flooding from some of the
downstream neighbors? I mean, a little bit more westerly neighbors...when I watch
the water come over there, it really dumps over. When we have a flood event, it dumps
over that area pretty heavily.
Mr. Hood: Actually, the bio-wall will just prevent
erosion. It will not change the depth of floodwaters in the area and it is not being
built up above the existing bank. It will go up to the top of the existing riverbank and
down toward the bottom. Therefore, we will not be affecting floodwaters.
Councilmember Cowden: But by having it not move away...because
over the years, I have watched that move and move and you think pretty soon it is
going to go right into the building.
Mr. Hood: Well, you are correct on that. If something is
not done, there is going to be a continuation of loss of property, the buildings are going
to fall into the river, and eventually when the Trader's property gets washed out, the
land actually, more Hanalei Town side, is lower elevation.
Councilmember Cowden: That is what I am asking, so, this is going to
help more than just that building if we did not do that, eventually if it continues
moving the way it has been, the flood events in Hanalei would get more profound.
Mr. Hood: Yes.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: Remember when you said it is a fix for the
location, but does not address the source of the issue, can you explain what it is that
we need to be looking at in long-term?
Mr. Hood: It is sort of a hypothesis at this point, because
there has not been a real rigorous study done by myself or others that I am awear of.
But the hypothesis is basically the channel is being constricted and it is continually
happening and as a result the hydrodynamics of the river are changing, right? The
river has a certain amount of water that is going to push the water through either
faster or slower depending on how wide and how much roughness there is, therefore,
the hau bush has been definitely identified by the community for quite some time as
encroaching. It is even preventing passing of outriggers that are doing paddling up
there and things and other activities that were not really thought out in terms of
putting some rock in the river to protect just a couple areas. The rocks were just, I
hate to use the term, but "ad hoc," just thrown in the river and observationally, that
seems to have exacerbated the problem as well.
COUNCIL MEETING 75 MARCH 13, 2019
Councilmember Chock: Okay.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Are there further questions from the
members? If not, thank you.
Mr. Hood: Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify on this?
Mr. Ashworth: Trevor Ashworth, for the record. Thank you.
This is a good example of public-private partnership, but I wonder if we are setting a
precedent as a County to say, "If there are other examples where there are private
lands and we could apply for these grants and the homeowner could pay or the
property owner could pay twenty-five percent (25%), is that what we are doing as a
County?" I think this would be cited in the future and if another landowner does not
get the same commitment from the County, it could be setting, like I said...we are
setting a precedent, potentially. If we are, that is fine, but we should be very clear
on that and not just looking at this as a sort of a "one-time" special event. Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone else in the audience wishing
to testify? Seeing none, I will call the meeting back to order. Councilmember Kagawa.
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Councilmember Kagawa: When you have extraordinary events, you are
going to have precedence being set. If you are going to fix the problem, you have to fix
the problem. If not, then the problem still exists. I think sometimes you cannot avoid
setting precedent.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: I just want to thank the "Ross"' for being
proactive in helping this situation that will help the community much further down
from where you are at, so thank you so much.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone else? If not, the motion is to
approve.
The motion to approve C 2019-53 was then put, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1
(Councilmember Brun was excused).
C 2019-54 Communication (02/25/2019) from the Deputy Fire Chief,
requesting Council approval, to accept a donation from the Kaua`i Lifeguard Association
(KLA) of two (2) 2019 Ford Pickup Trucks equipped with bed racks, light bars, and
sirens, valued at $105,661.80, which will benefit the Ocean Safety Bureau:
COUNCIL MEETING 76 MARCH 13, 2019
Councilmember Kagawa moved to approve C 2019-54 with thank-you letter to follow,
seconded by Councilmember Kuali`i.
Mr. Fountain-Tanigawa: Council Chair Kaneshiro, we have one (1)
registered speaker.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Do we have any questions on this first for the
Administration? Councilmember Cowden.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Councilmember Cowden: I am really happy to be receiving this. Shout
out to Kauai Lifeguard Association for again coming through for the community. I have
a very simple question, happy to receive these two (2) new trucks, but where are they
going to be placed?
KILIPAKI K. F. VAUGHAN, Deputy Fire Chief: Good afternoon, Council.
Kilipaki Vaughan, Deputy Fire Chief. The two (2) trucks donated from Kauai
Lifeguard Association, valued at one hundred five thousand six hundred sixty-one
dollars and eighty cents ($105,661.80) will be utilized partly by the Wanini Roving
Patrol and also at...
D. KALANI VIERRA, Water Safety Officer V: Kalani Vierra, Ocean
Safety Bureau. It will also be utilized on the North Shore.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay. We are lucky. Thank you. It sounds like
we are getting Wanini really set up right and we do have an awful lot of drownings on
the North Shore as it is, my opinion, the gnarliest part of the island. Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Are there any other questions from the
members? If not, thank you. While the rules are still suspended...
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The registered speaker is Trevor Ashworth.
Mr. Ashworth: I think this is my last comment for the day. I
think it is great to get the donation. It really helps out the community and the
community helps out the County. I am just wondering if we should not be establishing
a policy to ensure that there is no quid pro quo in the future that any of these groups
that are donating are truly the source of the fund that the source of the trucks are not
going to be coming before the Planning Department or any other County organization
or Department rather asking for an exception to policy or some sort of special
dispensation and create sort of that no quid pro quo policy for a period of time after the
donation. Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Thank you. Are there any final comments from
the member? Councilmember Evslin.
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
COUNCIL MEETING 77 MARCH 13, 2019
Councilmember Evslin: I just wanted to say how amazing it is that I
feel like every other meeting, KLA is donating something else. First we had a jet ski, I
believe, and a mule or quad of some fashion, and now, two (2) trucks. Now, we just
received a list of potential new donations coming up in the next couple months; it is
pretty incredible, the work that they do in pursuit of a goal of zero (0) drownings per
year. So, I hope that this will be one more step that we can take in getting there. Thank
you to KLA and thank you folks for being the beneficiaries.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: I just want to acknowledge for KLA that some
of the bigger donors in to that organization, contributors tend to be the visitor industry.
Many of them are the ones who actually are requiring this service from our ocean safety,
so it is in a sense the visitor industry paying for their impacts. It seems appropriate and
then a lot of the other donators are the community themselves, going to these events,
so I just want to address the last comment that came up that it really is not really much
where I would see a quid pro quo anywhere. It is truly people stepping up that are
appropriate to be stepping up, so we thank KLA and we thank the lifeguards. Thank
you so much.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone else? I want to just say the
same thing as everyone, but thanks to KLA, they have saved the County a lot of money.
I know they fundraise very hard and then the County reaps the benefits of those
fundraisers with donations like this. I wish we had an organization like that for every
single Department, we would probably be driving around nice cars, and the County's
budget would be looking a lot better. I am appreciative of KLA's work and all of their
fundraising. We all know that it is not easy to put together a fundraising event and
raise this type of money, so thank you.
The motion to approve C 2019-54 with thank you letter to follow was then put,
and carried by a vote of 6:0:1 (Councilmember Brun was excused).
C 2019-55 Communication (02/26/2019) from the Deputy County Engineer,
requesting Council approval to apply for, receive, and expend Emergency Watershed
Protection Grant Funds from the National Resource Conservation Service (NRCS), in
the amount of$327,555 (75% of the estimated total project cost of$436,740). The 25%
matching funds will come from Act 12 moneys from the State of Hawai`i. The grant
funds will be used to cover construction costs to repair damaged sections of the
Kahuna Road shoulder and embankment adjacent to Kapa'a Stream that was eroded
during the April 2018 flood event: Councilmember Kuali`i moved to approve C 2019-
55, seconded by Councilmember Chock.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Are there any questions from the members on
this item? Councilmember Cowden. Now is the time to ask before we vote.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Councilmember Cowden: I am in my learning process.
COUNCIL MEETING 78 MARCH 13, 2019
Mr. Tabata: Good afternoon, members. Chair and Vice
Chair, Lyle Tabata, Deputy County Engineer.
Councilmember Cowden: Thank you for these drawings and for the
location. On Kahuna Road, I seen how badly it has washed out. I am looking at the
drawings, is this just basically boulders that you are bringing in and putting boulders
down? Is that correct?
Mr. Tabata: I will defer to our Chief Engineer Michael
Moule who is more familiar with this project.
Mr. Moule: For the record, I am Michael Moule, Chief of
Engineering. Yes.
Councilmember Cowden: Is there any concrete in there at all, or are you
just putting boulders there? Is it sort of a simple thing of putting it in?
Mr. Moule: Yes, that is correct. Just simple boulders to
protect the embankment.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay. Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: Mr. Moule, can you later share, the •
emergency watershed protection grant details? I am interested in what else is eligible
and the parameters of it.
Mr. Moule: Sure, we can do that. I can answer a little bit
now, although I do not have a lot of detail.
Councilmember Chock: Sure.
Mr. Moule: Just briefly, it is pretty limited. It specifically
has to be used for protecting existing assets. It cannot be used to build anything new
and it is pretty restrictive. Again, I do not know all the details off the top of my head
right now. I have reviewed all these things months ago, soon after the storm and
found that it was pretty limited in where we could apply those funds on County roads.
This was the only or any County facilities...this was the only place on the island
where it was the road next to the stream where doing the work right there was •
appropriate for these funds.
Councilmember Chock: So whenever we could, we have already tried
to do so?
Mr. Moule: Yes.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you so much.
COUNCIL MEETING 79 MARCH 13, 2019
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Evslin.
Councilmember Evslin: I used to live in the area and I actually feel
like I was one of the first people to come across the initial damage where the road
literally just fell into the river, and it has been like that with no guardrail or anything
for a while. It is great to hear that you folks are going to be working on it. I just want
to make a comment. On page...the "A-5, Location D," there is work getting done on
either side of the bridge there, and that bridge has often flooded, debris will get stuck
under the little bridge, and then the river will jump right into the road. The entire
road, maybe five (5) years ago, has shifted over...it just looks like that bridge has
always been too small for the amount of water that will come underneath there during
a flood. I do not know if that has been looked at before, but it often seems like a choke
point.
Mr. Moule: I apologize. Is that the bridge that...I do not
have...
Councilmember Evslin: Yes, it is the bridge that meets...there is a
little stream that comes into the main stream...
Mr. Moule: Yes.
Councilmember Evslin: ...under the road. So, it looks like you folks
are repairing on either side of that bridge and I hope that repair does not constrict
the flow even more because it already seems too constricted under the bridge.
Mr. Moule: Yes, I am not familiar that much with how
much water comes down that stream. I will say, however, the Kapa'a Stream in this
area during the flood in April was a good three (3) to four (4) feet above the road,
entirely. So, the entire area...and that bridge was pointless at that point, right,
because no matter how much water is coming from the side, because it was
overtopping the entire road at that point.
Councilmember Evslin: Yes.
Mr. Moule: But we have not done any studies about that.
I do not think the intent is to constrict that any further. It is to shore up on the
outside of the structure and not constrict the opening, so we should not change it, but
we have not done that kind of study to say, "How does that smaller stream affect,"
because in this case much of the erosion was just...you could see debris on the fence
lines that were three (3) to four (4) feet above the road after the storm. It was
significant.
Councilmember Evslin: April was a different animal, for sure, but
smaller floods...that is the first time I seen Kahuna Road jump or the main stream
jump into the road, but the smaller stream will jump often because of the bridge.
Mr. Moule: Okay.
COUNCIL MEETING 80 MARCH 13, 2019
Councilmember Evslin: But thank you for the work though. •
Mr. Moule: We were not awear, we can take a look, but I
am not sure we can do much work because it is pretty restrictive to just this protection
piece.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Are there further questions from the
members? If not, thank you. While the rules are still suspended, is there anyone in
the audience wishing to testify on this item?
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there any final discussion? Councilmember
Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: I want to thank them for their nice
presentation that helps to makes it clear. I really appreciate the work that goes into
that to make that understandable and I did, in fact, after getting it, go up, and look
one more time before this meeting, so thank you very much.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: I will second that on the exhibit. It was very
clear in the exhibit what work you were going to get done. Is there any further
discussion?
The motion to approve C 2019-55 was then put, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1
(Councilmember Brun was excused).
C 2019-56 Communication (03/04/2019) from the County Clerk, requesting
Council approval, to accept roundtrip airfare accommodations from Glen I. Takahashi,
City Clerk, City & County of Honolulu, estimated in value to be approximately $550 for
two (2) employees to assist with the manual audit of the election results for the City &
County of Honolulu's Special Election which will be held on April 13, 2019:
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to approve C 2019-56, seconded by Councilmember
Cowden.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Any members have questions on this item? Is
there anyone in the audience wishing to testify on this?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back to
order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there any discussion? No.
The motion to approve C 2019-56 was then put and carried by a vote of 6:0:1
(Councilmember Brun was excused).
COUNCIL MEETING 81 MARCH 13, 2019
CLAIMS:
C 2019-57 Communication (02/08/2019) from the County Clerk, transmitting
a claim filed against the County of Kaua`i by GEICO Insurance, as subrogee for Carter
Daniel, for damages to his vehicle, pursuant to Section 23.06, Charter of the County of
Kaua`i.
C 2019-58 Communication (02/20/2019) from the County Clerk, transmitting
a claim filed against the County of Kaua`i by Ameriprise Auto & Home Insurance, as
subrogee for Linda Olguin, for damage to her vehicle, pursuant to Section 23.06,
Charter of the County of Kaua`i.
Councilmember Kagawa moved to refer C 2019-57 and C 2019-58 to the Office
of the County Attorney for disposition and/or report back to the Council,
seconded by Councilmember Kuali`i.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Anyone in the audience wishing to testify on
these? Seeing none.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
The motion to refer C 2019-57 and C 2019-58 to the Office of the County
Attorney for disposition and/or report back to the Council was then put, and
carried by a vote of 6:0:1 (Councilmember Brun was excused).
COMMITTEE REPORTS:
PUBLIC WORKS & VETERANS SERVICES COMMITTEE:
A report (No. CR-PWVS 2019-02) submitted by the Public Works & Veterans
Services Committee, recommending that the following by Received for the Record:
"PWVS 2019-01—Communication (02/07/2019) from Committee Chair
Kagawa, requesting the presence of the Deputy County Engineer, to provide a
briefing on the expansion of the Kekaha Landfill, as well as the status of the
landfill operations, including addressing the issue of the requirement to utilize
dirt as cover for the landfill, who is responsible to provide the material, and
any other related matters regarding landfill expansion,"
Councilmember Kagawa moved for approval of the report, seconded by
Councilmember Kuali`i.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify on this?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
COUNCIL MEETING 82 MARCH 13, 2019
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Seeing none, is there any discussion from the
members?
The motion for approval of the report was then put, and carried by a vote of
6:0:1 (Councilmember Brun was excused).
PARKS & RECREATION /TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE:
A report (CR-PRT 2019-01) submitted by the Parks &
Recreation / Transportation Committee, recommending that the following by
Received for the Record:
"PRT 2019-01—Communication (02/07/2019) from Council Vice Chair
Kagawa, requesting the presence of the Acting Chief of Police and the Director
of Parks and Recreation, to provide a briefing on the removal of derelict
vehicles at County parks and beaches,"
Councilmember Kagawa moved for approval of the report, seconded by
Councilmember Kuali`i.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify on this?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Seeing none, is there any discussion from the
members?
The motion for approval of the report was then put, and carried by a vote of
6:0:1 (Councilmember Brun was excused).
PLANNING COMMITTEE:
A report (No. CR-PL 2019-02) submitted by the Planning Committee,
recommending that the following be Approved on second and final reading:
"Bill No. 2733 –A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING ZONING
DESIGNATION IN KAPAHI, KAUAI (Baird Family Limited Partnership,
Applicant) (ZA-2018-1),
A report (No. CR-PL 2019-03) submitted by the Planning Committee,
recommending that the following be Received for the Record:
COUNCIL MEETING 83 MARCH 13, 2019
"PL 2019-02 Communication (02/06/2019) from Committee Chair Chock,
requesting the presence of the Planning Director, to provide a briefing on the
Administration's enforcement efforts as it relates to Transient Vacation Rental
(TVR) Regulations,"
Councilmember Chock moved for approval of the reports, seconded by
Councilmember Kuali`i.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify on this?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Seeing none, is there any discussion from the
members?
The motion for approval of the reports was then put, and carried by a vote of
6:0:1 (Councilmember Brun was excused).
RESOLUTIONS:
Resolution No. 2019-24 — RESOLUTION CONFIRMING MAYORAL
APPOINTMENT TO THE BOARD OF WATER SUPPLY (Kurt S. Akamine):
Councilmember Kuali`i moved for adoption of Resolution No. 2019-24, seconded by
Councilmember Chock.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify on this?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Seeing none, is there any discussion from the
members? Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: I think the Board of Water Supply is a very
important Board. I have known Kurt a good part of my life, he is a fellow Waimea
High School grad and a successful businessman. I have seen him in action and I know
that he will do his due diligence and will speak up and that is what we need. We need
a voice that will count on something so important as the Board of Water Supply. I
am appreciative of Ellen for all of the nominees in this round. I also want to announce
that on the second nomination, I need to recuse myself for personal reasons.
COUNCIL MEETING 84 MARCH 13, 2019
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Okay. Is there anyone else with discussion on
Kurt's nomination? If not, can we have a roll call vote?
The motion for adoption of Resolution No. 2019-24 was then put, and carried
by the follow vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Chock, Cowden, Evslin, Kagawa,
Kuali`i, Kaneshiro TOTAL — 6,
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Brun TOTAL — 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Six (6) ayes and one (1) excused.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as recused.)
Resolution No. 2019-25 — RESOLUTION CONFIRMING MAYORAL
APPOINTMENT TO THE CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION (Lori K. Koga):
Councilmember Kuali`i moved for adoption of Resolution No. 2019-25, seconded by
Councilmember Chock.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify on this?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there any discussion from the members?
Councilmember Kagawa is recused. Roll call vote.
The motion for adoption of Resolution No. 2019-25 was then put, and carried
by the follow vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Chock, Cowden, Evslin, Kuali`i,
Kaneshiro TOTAL — 5,
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Brun TOTAL — 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: Kagawa TOTAL — 1.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Five (5) ayes.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Next item.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present.)
COUNCIL MEETING 85 MARCH 13, 2019
Resolution No. 2019-26 — RESOLUTION CONFIRMING MAYORAL
APPOINTMENT TO THE SALARY COMMISSION (Leland K Kahawai):
Councilmember Kuali`i moved for adoption of Resolution No. 2019-26, seconded by
Councilmember Chock.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify on this?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
ALICE PARKER: Alice Parker, for the record. I want to rewind
to the Board of Water Supply. I am sorry, I am slow and I did not get here for
transportation, my own blah. As far as water, is there something we can do to speed
up the end use of cesspools, because I know from a friend that sometimes they are
dumped back...
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Ms. Parker.
Ms. Parker: That is not the issue, but I wanted to stick this
in. Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Yes. Is there anyone else who wants to testify
on the Resolution for Leland Kahawai for the Salary Commission? If not, is there
any discussion from the members? Can we have a roll call vote?
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
The motion for adoption of Resolution No. 2019-26 was then put, and carried
by the follow vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Chock, Cowden, Evslin, Kagawa,
Kuali`i, Kaneshiro TOTAL — 6,
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Brun TOTAL — 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Six (6) ayes and one (1) excused.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Next item.
(Councilmember Evslin was noted as recused.)
BILL FOR SECOND READING:
Bill No. 2733 — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING ZONING
DESIGNATION IN KAPAHI, KAUAI (Baird Family Limited Partnership,
Applicant) (ZA-2018-1): Councilmember Chock moved to approve Bill No. 2733, on
second and final reading, and that it be transmitted to the Mayor for his approval,
COUNCIL MEETING 86 MARCH 13, 2019 •
seconded by Councilmember Kagawa.
•
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Evslin is recused on this. Do
we have any questions for the Administration? If not, is there anyone in the audience
wishing to testify on this? Seeing none. Is there any final discussion?
Councilmember Kagawa.
•
Councilmember Kagawa: I would like to thank the Baird family for
being here and being so patient all morning and all the afternoon. I support the
Planning Commission and the Planning Department's recommendation for the Baird
family to expand on their farming. I wish them much success as they try and do what
all residents say, which is, "Why do we not grow more things here locally," and they
are doing exactly that. I support that type of venture. Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: I would like to say that I am also willing to
support this. I feel that it is important when we have family farms, especially as that
family grows into multiple generations that they can all live comfortably and in a
sound way that works for them on their farm together. I particularly am supporting
this because it is not a work around to subdivide the property. It is the direction I
think we need to be moving. Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone else? I was not on the
Committee. I will make my comments now. I look at this Bill as on an individual
basis. I will be in support of this Bill. I do know that the Baird family is active in
•
agriculture and they did receive testimony from farmers such as Jerry Ornellas,
Johnny Gordines, and to me that weighs a lot on whether the Baird family is actually
going to do agriculture or not, which they are. It said in the Planning report also, so
for me if other people come in with a request like this, it is not a guarantee vote. It
really is based on the individual situation and in this situation, I will be voting in
favor of it. Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: I am going to agree with you when I say I like
the direction of this is when it is truly a family farming their land, so I am in
agreement with what you just said.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there further discussion? If not, roll call
vote.
The motion to approve Bill No. 2733, on second and final reading, and that it
be transmitted to the Mayor for his approval was then put, and carried by the
following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Chock, Cowden, Kagawa, Kuali`i,
Kaneshiro TOTAL — 5,
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Brun TOTAL — 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: Evslin TOTAL — 1.
COUNCIL MEETING 87 MARCH 13, 2019
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Five (5) ayes.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: With that, can you read us into Executive
Session?
EXECUTIVE SESSION:
ES-982 Pursuant to Hawai`i Revised Statutes (HRS) Sections 92-4 and
92-5(a)(4), and Kaua`i County Charter Section 3.07(E), the Office of the County
Attorney requests an Executive Session with the Council to obtain settlement
authority in Kaua`i Ferals dba Kaua`i Community Cat Project vs. Kaua`i County
Council et al., Civil No. 16-1-0142 (Fifth Circuit Court), and related matters. This
briefing and consultation involves consideration of the powers, duties, privileges,
immunities, and/or liabilities of the Council and the County as they relate to this
agenda item.
(Councilmember Euslin was noted as present.)
ES-983 Pursuant to Hawai`i Revised Statutes (HRS) Sections 92-4 and
92-5(a)(3), and Kaua`i County Charter Section 3.07(E), the Office of the County
Attorney requests an Executive Session with the Council to discuss the acquisition of
several large parcels of land for community based needs including affordable housing,
park facilities, and the expansion of public utilities. This briefing and consultation
involves consideration of the powers of the Council and the County as they relate to
this agenda item.
Councilmember Kagawa moved to convene in Executive Session for ES-982
and ES-983, seconded by Councilmember Chock.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify on this?
There being no objections, the rules were
suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Seeing none, is there any discussion from the
members? Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: I received a complaint recently from our
workers at Wailua Golf Course. From what I heard, they removed some cats from the
Wailua Golf Course area; there are a lot of feral cats there. They got them spayed and
neutered and then they returned it back to the course. I guess the workers there
were saying, "Why would you bring the cats back," but I guess it is a policy that they
can do that. They can spayed and neuter it and then they can return it where the cats
were. According to the workers, the Kaua`i Humane Society seemed to have brought
COUNCIL MEETING 88 MARCH 13, 2019
more than allowed. I do not know if I am drifting, Matt, but I just want to make sure
that...I do value the humane treatment of cats; however, I do value human lives more.
If there is a health and safety problem with our policy, then I think we need to fix the
policy. Thank you.
•
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there any other discussion? If not, roll call
vote to go into Executive Session.
The motion to convene in Executive Session for ES-982 and ES-983 was then
put, and carried by the following vote:
FOR EXECUTIVE SESSION: Chock, Cowden, Evslin,
Kagawa, Kuali`i, Kaneshiro TOTAL — 6, :
AGAINST EXECUTIVE SESSION: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Brun TOTAL — 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: That concludes the business on our agenda.
ADJOURNMENT.
There being no further business, the Council Meeting adjourned at 2:35 p.m.
•s.ectfull- .ubmitted,
Wafi i ,
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JADE K. FOUNTAIN-TANIGAWA
County Clerk
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