HomeMy WebLinkAbout03/27/2019 Council minutes COUNCIL MEETING
March 27, 2019
The Council Meeting of the Council of the County of Kaua`i was called to order
by Council Chair Arryl Kaneshiro at the Council Chambers, 4396 Rice Street,
Suite 201, Lihu`e, Kaua`i, on Wednesday, March 27, 2019 at 8:46 a.m., after which
the following Members answered the call of the roll:
Honorable Mason K. Chock
Honorable Felicia Cowden
Honorable Luke A. Evslin
Honorable Ross Kagawa
Honorable KipuKai Kuali`i
Honorable Arryl Kaneshiro
Excused: Honorable Arthur Brun
APPROVAL OF AGENDA.
Councilmember Chock moved for approval of the agenda, as circulated,
seconded by Councilmember Kuali`i.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Seeing none, members, is there any
discussion on the agenda?
The motion for approval of the agenda, as circulated, was then put, and carried
by a vote of 6:0:1 (Councilmember Brun was excused).
Council Chair Kaneshiro: The motion is carried.
MINUTES of the following meetings of the Council:
February 20, 2019 Council Meeting
March 13, 2019 Public Hearing re: Bill No. 2734
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to approve the Minutes as circulated, seconded
by Councilmember Chock.
COUNCIL MEETING 2 MARCH 27, 2019
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify on the Minutes?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Seeing none, is there any discussion from the
members?
The motion to approve the Minutes, as circulated, was then put, carried by a
vote of 6:0:1 (Councilmember Brun was excused).
Council Chair Kaneshiro: The motion is carried. Next item.
CONSENT CALENDAR:
C 2019-59 Communication (02/22/2019) from the Director of Finance,
transmitting for Council information, the 2019 Real Property Assessment List of the
County of Kaua`i, pursuant to Section 5A-2.2, Kaua`i County Code 1987, as amended.
C 2019-60 Communication (03/08/2019) from Council Chair Kaneshiro,
transmitting for Council consideration, a Resolution appointing Vice Chair Kagawa
and Councilmember Brun as Kaua`i's representative and alternate, respectively, to
the HSAC Executive Committee for the term beginning July 1, 2019 to June 30, 2020
and Kaua`i County Council's nominations for consideration by the HSAC Executive
Committee of Councilmember Kuali`i as a National Association of Counties Board
Member and Councilmember Chock as a Western Interstate Region Board Member.
C 2019-61 Communication (03/14/2019) from Council Vice Chair Kagawa,
providing written disclosure of a possible conflict of interest and recusal relating to
the Mayoral appointment of Lori K. Koga to serve on the Charter Review
Commission, because Ms. Koga was his former campaign treasurer.
C 2019-62 Communication (03/14/2019) from the Acting Director of Human
Resources, transmitting for Council information, the March 15, 2019 Human
Resources Reports, pursuant to Section 24 of Ordinance No. B-2018-841, relating
to the Operating Budget of the County of Kaua`i for the Fiscal Year 2018-2019, which
includes new hires, transfers, reallocations, promotions, and vacancies for the period
of July 1, 2019.
C 2019-63 Communication (03/15/2019) from the Director of Finance,
transmitting for Council information, supplemental real property tax revenue
information pertaining to the estimated reduction in real property tax revenues
COUNCIL MEETING 3 MARCH 27, 2019
resulting from the Home Preservation Limit and Very Low Income tax relief
measures enacted by the Kauai County Council, factored with the existing real
property tax rates, and based on the Real Property Assessment Certification for
Fiscal Year 2020.
Councilmember Chock moved to receive C 2019-59, C 2019-60, C 2019-61,
C 2019-62, and C 2019-63 for the record, seconded by Councilmember Kagawa.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify on this?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Seeing none, is there any discussion from the
members?
The motion to receive C 2019-59, C 2019-60, C 2019-61, C 2019-62, and
C 2019-63 for the record was then put, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1
(Councilmember Brun was excused).
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Motion carried. Next item.
COMMUNICATIONS:
C 2019-64 Communication (03/04/2019) from the Prosecuting Attorney,
requesting Council approval to receive and expend an increase in funds, from $165,337
to $199,727, for contract 16-DJ-07, from the State of Hawaii, Department of the
Attorney General, to continue the Sexual Assault Prosecution Unit to June 30, 2020.
The current contract is set to expire on March 31, 2019.
Councilmember Kagawa moved to approve C 2019-64, seconded by
Councilmember Kuali`i.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there any Councilmembers with a question?
I will suspend the rules.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Councilmember Kagawa: I just want to...thank you Jamie. "Welcome
back Yvette back there, we miss you."
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Ask her the question.
COUNCIL MEETING 4 MARCH 27, 2019
Councilmember Kagawa: No, I just want to ask a question for the
public. Is this an increase or decrease to our prior years?
JAMIE OLIVAS, Grant Coordinator: This is just an increase in funding. We
previously got approved for the same continuation of the grant. They split the
funding into two (2) different years. So this is just a continuation, so it is an increase.
We originally had one hundred sixty-six thousand dollars ($166,000) and they have
increased us to another one hundred forty thousand dollars ($140,000), but they split
it up. So we will get this half (1/z) to increase the current contract that we have and
then we are going to get the second portion in another contract.
Councilmember Kagawa: So in comparison to the previous years, what
are we getting?
Ms. Olivas: About the same amount.
Councilmember Kagawa: About the same amount it will come out too?
Ms. Olivas: Yes.
Councilmember Kagawa: Has this been going on for a long time?
Ms. Olivas: Three (3) years so far.
Councilmember Kagawa: Three (3) years so far. Thank you.
Councilmember Cowden: I want to thank you for getting the grants, and
to be working on it. I want to applaud our Kaua`i Police Department (KPD) for taking
the sex assault challenges very seriously. I have been pleased to be in the Citizens
Police Academy, where I am able to see how that money is spent. To really just
recognize and even tell the women or men that are out there, most of our victims are
women, to be not afraid. If you have a problem to come in because this kind of money
is being utilized to really take care of our victims. Over the decades, very often,
women do not find much support when they have a challenge, or men. Women and
men. I just applaud the efforts of both our KPD and our Prosecuting Unit is doing to
keep our women and men safe, and our behavior accountable. So, thank you so much.
Ms. Olivas: Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Are there any other questions from the
members? If not, thank you. Is there anyone in the audience wishing to testify on
this item?
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Seeing none, is there any discussion from the
members?
COUNCIL MEETING 5 MARCH 27, 2019
The motion to approve C 2019-64 was then put, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1
(Councilmember Brun was excused).
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Motion carried. Next item.
C 2019-65 Communication (03/11/2019) from the Salary Commission,
transmitting for the Council's information and consideration, the Salary
Commission's Resolution No. 2019-1, Relating to the Salaries of Certain Officers and
Employees of the County of Kaua`i, which was adopted by the Salary Commission
at its March 7, 2019 meeting.
• Salary Commission Resolution No. 2019-1
Councilmember Kagawa moved to receive C 2019-65 for the record, seconded by
Councilmember Kuali`i.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Okay. This is what we have here with this
Salary Resolution. This is one of the only votes we take where minority vote is able to
pass it. We have one (1) Councilmember out, so it will make any decision on this item
even more difficult. I think we will go through...if there is a presentation or any
questions, let us go through it. If there is any swaying on votes as far as someone is
wanting to pass it and someone does not, I think we are going to have to defer because
every vote is going to count. I do not know which way Councilmember Brun would vote.
If it is a unanimous vote on whether they want to pass it or not pass it, I think we are
able to go ahead because one (1)vote will not matter. If there is any split in the decision,
I think we are probably going to have to defer because every single vote counts. It is
one of the only votes we will take that is one of the most confusing votes we take, but a
minority vote on this passes it. So, that is what I will say on the front-end. With that,
I will suspend the rules. Oh...clarification?
Councilmember Chock: Yes, clarification, Mr. Chair. If we defer it,
which it sounds like we might have to today, I believe we have a deadline to vote on it.
When is that deadline?
JADE K. FOUNTAIN-TANIGAWA, County Clerk: It is a sixty (60) day
deadline, which will currently bring us to May 6, 2019, which is a Monday. So we are
looking at...we could possibly do it on April 24, 2019.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: So we have one (1), possibly two (2) meetings,
to get this done before then.
Councilmember Kagawa: I kind of disagree with Councilmember
Chock. I think we can vote on it. It is obvious that...hopefully what will be presented
is that we had just increased salaries recently. Significantly. While they are doing
their work, and what calls for their duty on the commission, I think it is clear to me
at least, it is not an appropriate time.
COUNCIL MEETING 6 MARCH 27, 2019
Councilmember Kuali`i: I just had a procedural question and possibly
clarification. When you stated that a minority vote can pass this, you mean three (3)
votes instead of four (4); right?
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Correct.
Councilmember Kuali`i: So today, we have six (6) members present. So
if there was either a six to zero (6:0) vote or five to one (5:1) vote, maybe even...yes,
six to zero (6:0) or five to one (5:1), it could pass because the other vote would not get
you to three (3); right? It would only get you to two (2).
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Yes. I do want to be clear, you know I would
like to know how everyone is going to vote on to it so we are able to decide on how we
move forward. I think, if there is any question, we are probably going to have to defer
it. Partly because we cannot take the vote because there is always rescind it. I think
if we are not sure how we are going to vote, then we just...
Councilmember Kuali`i: I think procedurally as I remember, there was
a vote taken and then a week later there was a vote to reconsider. So I mean...
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Yes, for this one, I would rather not take the
vote.
Councilmember Kuali`i: I understand.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: I would rather us state...you know we can ask
questions, get a better feel for our position, we state what we are thinking, and then
we make the decision from there. Whether we are willing to vote on it today or are
we going to have everyone vote on it? Yes, it is one of the weirdest situations where
a minority vote wins. So, every vote counts on this one. Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: I think you just answered my question. I
wanted to make sure that we are able to talk about it today because I do have
questions. Whether we defer it or not it would help me a lot to hear a presentation,
to hear public testimony, and to discuss it because I think it is a very strong issue.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: I definitely want to get our questions out
today. I do not want to hold back and wait until the next meeting. Then if we have
questions and they cannot answer, they will have to get back to us, and then we have
prolonged the process. You know I think from here, we try and ask all the questions
we can as the six (6) of us to get comfortable with whatever decision we are going to
make. Unfortunately Councilmember Brun had to be excused, he had something that
happened so it is just the way it goes. Councilmember Kagawa, you have a question?
COUNCIL MEETING 7 MARCH 27, 2019
Councilmember Kagawa: No.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: If not, I will suspend the rules.
Councilmember Kagawa: It is frustrating that we are discussing this
just into Mayor Kawakami's term, I mean I think it is just poor timing. We have not
even hit the budget. We have not even hit the budget and we are taking a big ticket
item for large increases before we even talk about the budget, and this
Administration has just started. They have just started and they have no vacancies,
zero (0). They have filled every position and we are going to give them big increases
for salaries? Now?
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Well I think you know, ultimately it comes
down to our decision. I think it is coming from the Salary Commission whose job is
to provide us with what they think is fair every year. It is up to us to decide whether
we want to pass it or not at this time? That is the decision we will have to make.
Councilmember Kagawa: I understand the process. I am just saying
that I do not know why it is going to be a hard decision. I mean for me, it is clear.
There are no vacancies and he filled all the positions, they have just started, and you
are going to give them a big pay raise now? We have hired our County Clerk and
Deputy County Clerk, I am not ready to give them a big pay raise. We have just
started the year, you know? I mean, yes it is difficult.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Ellen do have a presentation or are you just
willing to take questions? We will have you do your presentation and then...
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
ELLEN CHING, Boards and Commissions Administrator: Good morning. For
the record, Administrator Boards and Commissions, Ellen Ching. The Salary
Commission currently has four (4) members and that is Kenneth Rainforth, the Chair;
Robert Crowell, Trinette Kaui, who is here with me today; and Jo Ann Shimamoto. It
is an evenly split commission between individuals from the private sector and other
retirees from the public sector. The Charter requires that the Salary Commission
adopt the Salary Resolution and forward it to the Mayor and to this County Council
on or before March 15th. So there is no sort of leeway with that. If they are going to
forward a resolution, it has to be done by March 15th. So in order to meet this deadline
they started meeting in January and met weekly throughout February and March. I
do not know if you recall? Today is a beautiful day, but it started to pour rain, and
every week they came together. At one (1) point there was a virtual waterfall coming
off the roof and I thought, "oh my gosh, they are not going to come in and we are not
going to meet the deadline," but they did. So I really want to thank these volunteers
for their deep sense of commitment, for caring, and be willing to put in the time and
effort. Trinette.
COUNCIL MEETING 8 MARCH 27, 2019
TRINETTE KAUI: Good morning, Chair Kaneshiro and members
of County Council. First of all, I would like to thank the members of the Salary
Commission and staff for their diligence and commitment in formulating the
Resolution before us today. As Ellen mentioned the Charter requires a resolution to
be submitted to the council no later than March 15th and therefore we met over the
last several weeks to meet this deadline. During the weekly meetings we have looked
at the Consumer Price Index compared to the salaries for the Counties and State,
Salary Inversion Charts, past Salary Resolutions, and testimonies that we have
received both orally and written. Salary Resolution 2019-1 is a result of all the
information reviewed, the testimonies received, and the active discussion between
the Commissioners. I would like to clarify a couple of things regarding the Resolution.
The salaries in the Resolution is a maximum cap. So in other words, that is the
highest amount that can be paid for these positions. The amount can also be lower
than the cap. It is the decision of the appointing authority to set the salary for the
positions. Should the Resolution be adopted, the salaries for the Councilmembers
will not be increased until December 1, 2020, after the next election. Lastly, much of
the information we considered attached to the Resolution. One (1) thing is clear that
we are not keeping pace with the other Counties or State for similar positions. I
respectfully ask to your consideration in this matter. I would really like to thank the
Council for the work and the service that you provide to Kauai and Ni`ihau. Thank
you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Thank you. I want to say thank you for all
your hard work. I did read the minutes that were provided to us and we know how
hard you folks worked on getting it completed. Every time we see a salary increase
come through, you know...the Salary Commission's job. The Salary Commission's job
is to send it to us and it is our decision to whether accept or reject. Thank you for all
your hard work. Any questions from the members? Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: Just for clarification. We have four (4)
members. Do we have a vacancy as well?
Ms. Ching: Yes.
Councilmember Chock: How many make up the total amount?
Ms. Ching: Altogether, I believe seven (7).
Councilmember Chock: Seven (7). Okay. I would like to hear a little
bit more about the process. I understand based on your testimony here that we are
comparatively to the rest of the Counties at a lower threshold. So how did you...or
what process did you folks go through in trying to determine what that amount is
that you want to present to us?
COUNCIL MEETING 9 MARCH 27, 2019
Ms. Kaui: So basically we looked at the last Resolution,
I think it was in 2017. We took that amount and added the Consumer Price Index
for the years 2016 and 2017 and we came up with the amount of about a
five percent (5%) increase. What we also did was back in 2007, there was a NASH
study and they had different tiers. What we looked at was for health and safety, as
well as for the positions that had professional degrees, or some of them had to get a
law or engineering degree, and took that into consideration with the raise. I just
want to make it very clear that when we are looking at this, we are basically looking
at positions, and not so much the people that is in that position now. I think that it
is very important for the County to have the best and brightest in these positions. If
we cannot keep up with the State, then we are not able to attract the different people
for these positions. Basically that is how we came up with that in the short period of
time we had.
Councilmember Chock: Just to get a sense of it because I know in the
past we have talked about not only County to County or Government to Government
Institutions, but also what we are up against with the private sector. I cannot
remember what that difference is, or average is, in terms of difference? Is there some
indication based on a study of where we are? I am assuming we are lower.
Ms. Kaui: Right.
Councilmember Chock: I am assuming we are lower as public sector
employees.
Ms. Ching: Councilmember Chock, it depends on the
position. The big scrutiny was because there is a big need, such as the County
Engineer's position. What the Resolution is proposing is I believe in the
one hundred thirty-seven thousand dollar ($137,000) range. When we compared that
to private sector say Managing Engineer, one of the comparative salary websites that
we looked at had a range from one hundred thirty thousand dollars ($130,000) to
one hundred eighty-five thousand dollars ($185,000). In particular, that position has
plagued a lot of Administrations in filling it, not just this Administration. Over the
past twenty-five (25) years, we received testimony that it has been vacant for seven
and one half(7%) years.
Councilmember Chock: So, that one is an issue it sounds like, but the
rest of the positions do not, are not as much of an issue?
Ms. Ching: I believe that they are filled now and the
question is again about the position and keeping pace with the other Counties.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING 10 MARCH 27, 2019
Council Chair Kaneshiro: I believe the only two (2) positions right now
that are not vacant is the Fire Chief and the County Engineer, yes?
Ms. Ching: Yes, and we are in the process of hiring for the
Director of Human Resources.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Oh yes, and Human Resources.
Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay, I was going to ask that. I thought there
actually were three (3) vacancies. You know, my understanding is that we have to
approve all of this or we cannot line item it; right?
Council Chair Kaneshiro: I can tell you we tried to line item it before,
and it was pretty messy.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay, because like some of these comparisons
are pretty interesting. Like in Honolulu, I noticed that the Chief of Police is paid
more than the Mayor. I am not sure that person is doing such a good job right now,
but I sort of get that. The Mayor's position is a very happy position and I think the
Chief of Police is a very, very difficult position; right? So I am seeing where there are
some big variations that are interesting to me and I was going to ask about a few, but
it seems like some of these have been asked. I will wait until our discussion.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kagawa and then
Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Kagawa: So, from Mayor Carvalho's time we have had
trouble filling the County Engineer's position, right? Can we say that is because of
the pay that we cannot fill that job? I mean, I remember when my dad was the Deputy
County Engineer for many years under Mayor Malapit and he took a significant pay
cut from the base. It was because of his want to improve the county and his want to
work with Mayor Malapit and build neighborhood centers all over the place, which is
why he took the job with pride. They had our roads paved and they have had our
bridges fixed. So it is not only about pay right? I know we had an applicant licensed
engineer, we did have one; right? We turned that person down. So I mean, you know,
to say it is all about pay I think is misleading. I think when you compare to the
private sector, do we compare the fact that we have twenty-one (21) days of sick leave
and twenty-one (21) days of vacation? Does the private sector have that? No, right?
So to me, do we have a comparison of the previous increases that were given? Do you
have a listing that we can display like now?
Council Chair Kaneshiro: We have the exhibit.
COUNCIL MEETING 11 MARCH 27, 2019
Councilmember Kagawa: Do we have the previous one? I want the
public to see the previous one that we increased from where to where.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: No, we do not have the previous increase. I
know we have the current salary number. That is all we have.
Councilmember Kagawa: Was that three (3) years ago?
Council Chair Kaneshiro: 2017.
Councilmember Kagawa: 2017. Two (2) years ago. I guess my question
that I have is Ellen, did the Mayor consider, "Hey, you know what, let us wait until
next year, until next May, I meant next March, to bring this salary proposal since we
have just started?" Was that...
Ms. Ching: A couple of things...
Councilmember Kagawa: I appreciate the work they have done. The
Commission is following the rules but just to say, "Hey, we have just started. It is
going to be very difficult to pass by a Council that is really strapped for money."
MICHAEL A. DAHILIG, Managing Director: Good morning, Councilmembers.
Mike Dahilig, Managing Director, for the record. Yes, we share the concern,
Councilmember Kagawa. When you look at the list of the thirty (30) positions that
are on the Administrative side, the Office of the Mayor only controls the salary of
thirteen (13) of those thirty (30) positions. So the other seventeen (17) are either done
through by commission or they are done through the legislative branch. Of those
thirteen (13) positions, that is what the Office of the Mayor understands as an issue
because we have just started and not even passed one hundred twenty (120) days in
office. So in discussions with the Mayor about the scenario, because again, all of the
salaries from the different appointing authorities are all-in-one bucket here. The
Mayor is not wanting to initiate any salary increases on any direct appointees until
at least one (1) year in office has come through. That is a commitment that we are
willing to proffer on the table openly because we understand the previous desires by
the Council to ensure evaluation and appropriate compensation based off
performance. One (1) of the things when I was on the University Board that we
looked at rather than having salary increases was looking at bonus incentives versus
looking at base increases. Those are things that we will have to look out over the
next year or so as we look at the performance of our direct supervisory employees.
Councilmember Kagawa, I can state for the record that we will not entertain any
increases for those thirteen (13) position types until at least December 3, 2019.
Councilmember Kagawa: I know that the inversion has been talked
about, but I mean I have seen with Mayor Carvalho going out, we have our
COUNCIL MEETING 12 MARCH 27, 2019
Department Heads you know...the Department of Parks & Recreation in the civil
service, we have another one that just walked in, in civil service. I mean, you know
obviously, if they are a good Department Head, they get recycled back into the civil
service side right? So I mean, the experience leads them to other greener pastures, I
guess, right?
Mr. Dahilig: It does.
Councilmember Kagawa: Small island.
Mr. Dahilig: I would say also, as it pertains to the County
Engineer that is the one thing on the record that the Mayor has been very adamant
about in terms of wanting some competitiveness. We have tried to find positions,
people that would fit the position, and the Charter defines the qualifications; a
professional engineering degree with five (5) years of experience. My father being an
engineer himself when he was in the private sector, he was earning quite a bit with
that commensurate amount of experience. So we are lucky to have certain young
bloods that come through and are able to try to do it from the experience standpoint,
but when it comes to the portfolio of the County Engineer, it is unique in the sense
that it also includes environmental management. When you look at the other
positions in the County of Hawai`i, City and County of Honolulu, and as well as in
Maui, they do not have environmental management as part of that portfolio. So for
Solid Waste and Wastewater, those items are not included as part of the salary
consideration when you are looking at the comparable positions across the Counties
because they actually have a separate environmental services or environmental
management engineer. In a sense, it is a bit of a green apple red apple scenario when
you are looking at our engineer because there is a bigger portfolio of responsibilities
that we do have for that position. Even with that responsibility, it has become
difficult for us to find somebody commensurate with not just the check boxes for
County Engineer, but also for the things that are not in the Charter. Things like
leadership experience, things like temperament, and the ability to manage. Those
are the qualities that we are looking for beyond just the five (5) years of management
experience and the professional engineering position. We understand the difficult
position the Council is put in with this scenario, and I would like to suggest that it
does affect the other seventeen (17) positions beyond the thirteen (13) that we have
direct oversight on when it comes to salary setting. If this does go through, we would
not touch the Salary Resolution until there is at least one (1) year of performance
underneath everybody's belt to evaluate whether or not an increase is warranted.
Councilmember Kagawa: I hear you. I agree with you. I am just saying
from the Carvalho Administration until now, not having a licensed County Engineer
to lead this place, I got a feeling it is more than the pay. You know? You can have
Bill Belichick, but if you do not have the players, you are not going to win. He is not
going to get the job done. He is not going to get the rigid and the roads fixed. He may
COUNCIL MEETING 13 MARCH 27, 2019
get some of the sidewalks done? Do you know what I am saying? I am saying
something is missing and I hope Mayor Kawakami has the answers. Mayor
Kawakami has just started. I am confident Mayor Kawakami will turn things
around. I am saying something is missing which is why Bill Belichick is not coming
around for twelve (12) years or whatever it has been. Something is missing,
something is wrong, and I hope we get it fixed.
Mr. Dahilig: It is a discussion that we need continue to
have with the Council, Vice Chair. With the Bill Belichick analogy, I mean sometimes
you have a strong offensive mind like June Jones who can be the head coach and also
the offensive coordinator. What is clear is that being able to be the head coach and
an offensive coordinator may not necessarily be the case with our County Engineer.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Chock, follow-up questions?
I do not know if you are going to ask football questions or if...I am just kidding. We
often go through those type of examples and it is extremely relevant.
Councilmember Chock: I just wanted to clarify, Council Chair. What
I heard from the Managing Director, is thirteen (13) positions within the
Administration will be re-evaluated and not be even considered even if this is passed.
Can you identify the thirteen (13) positions?
Mr. Dahilig: Yes, sir. That would be the Mayor himself,
the Managing Director, the County Engineer and his/her Deputy, the Finance
Director and Deputy, the County Attorney and the Deputies. It would be the Office
of Economic Development, Parks and Recreation, and the Deputy Housing, and
Boards and Commissions. That would be it. So the items that are not in the bucket
would be the Office of the Prosecuting Attorney, Human Resources, Police, Planning,
Water, Fire, Liquor, County Clerk, County Auditor, and then of course it would
separate in part 3, would be the two (2) positions.
Councilmember Chock: Okay, so they are mixed between...I guess
when I look at the list that was submitted by the Salary Commission, they are mixed
between partl and part 2.
Mr. Dahilig: Yes.
Councilmember Chock: Okay. They only request that I have is also if
you could provide...it sounds like you have an evaluative process that you folks are
implementing and forthcoming. If I could see the outline of how it is you folks are
moving through that?
Mr. Dahilig: Sure. I think what we can provide is not only
what we have done in the past practice with the Human Resources evaluations but
COUNCIL MEETING 14 MARCH 27, 2019
also things that we are looking at that we can present in more detail and options for
more intense evaluation of our employees.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Yes. I want to start by echoing all of Vice
Chair's comments and concerns. The Kawakami Administration has just started.
Mayor Carvalho's Administration was here for ten (10) years. At the last part of his
Administration, maybe it was in 2017, the raises were done, significant raises. The
other thing I would add to that is that the last Council and this new Administration
is the beneficiary of it, passed the General Excise Tax; a regressive tax that hurts the
poorest amongst us the most. Everybody is having to pay more, even pennies, they
all add up. You have to pay more for bread and milk and food and all your basic living
expenses. Millions more dollars is coming into this County from the General Excise
Tax. Yes, it is dedicated to roads and buses, but that frees up general fund. We need
to show our people that we are operating efficiently and tight, making our budget as
tight as possible. How can we be giving raises right now, big raises to the top
positions? It would be absurd. The people will go crazy. You know, we have to be
here as Councilmembers representing them. So I would say to the Administration,
to the Managing Director, what say you to the fact that we just passed this General
Excise Tax that is going to be a burden. It is already a burden that started January
1, 2019 on our constituents, and at the same time we want to give big raises at very
beginning of an Administration?
Mr. Dahilig: I think that is a concern that we are hearing
around the table and we certainly want to address publicly. Again as we suggested,
we are very understanding that we just started. We have no track record at this
point. So the optics behind having these increases come to the table looks awkward,
but it is largely a consequence of the Charter defining the period of time that these
resolutions have to go through. Ultimately when it comes to departmental
management scenarios, what I am concerned about is the leadership of my
Department Heads. Ensuring that they have not only the requisite skill and they are
producing the desired outcome that all of us want; but that I am also able to keep
them. When we brought on a number of people from the private sector to come into
the Administration, just like in certain cases, they took pay cuts. They took pay cuts
to come in, and they are not the maximum salary. So, I would also add that even for
myself, I did not take the maximum salary either. So we take seriously the
responsibility honest that we manage and not just pay out as a way to optimize
performance across the County. So that being said, at least with what is within our
realm of control, we need to be openly responsible with how we are compensating
people in light of the fact that we have increased the tax burden on our public. So all
we can do is give you our word that we will go through an evaluative process and not
COUNCIL MEETING 15 MARCH 27, 2019
jump on July 1, 2019 and say, "We are going to give to the thirteen (13) position types
automatic raises to the max," and actually be judicious about it and transparent and
responsible about it. That is all I can proffer Councilmember.
Councilmember Kuali`i: So I will move to my next question on the
Salary Commission. I will say you used the word optics and I do not like that. This
is about the people's hard earned tax dollars and they are struggling. We need to be
very responsible with this General Excise Tax and with our budget going forward, as
we always need to be. It is our biggest job. On this maximum salary cap, you really
stressed that what we are setting is only maximum caps; right? Of the
thirty-seven (37) positions, can you tell me how many are currently being paid at the
maximum and can you show me historical information that shows every time there
was these caps established, what happened? Did they then immediately raise all
those salaries to the cap? I would guess that the data would show more than not that
that is what happened and what Mr. Dahilig said from his personal example is the
exception and not the rule.
Ms. Kaui: Okay, we do not have that information now.
Councilmember Kuali`i: You can get it right?
Ms. Kaui: Certainly, we can try and get it for you.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Yes. I would appreciate that, please. Then
the last question for now is the one about "keeping pace with other Counties." You
provided this spreadsheet that just basically showed the salary of the Counties. That
is one simple piece of data. What I need is the data that goes behind that. How are
we comparing the Counties? What is the size of our County compared to the other
three (3) Counties? How many employees work in each division and department and
are in direct line of supervision of these individuals? Sure, we are the lowest on the
four (4) Counties, but clearly we are the smallest as well. Is there more data that
backs this up? I would want to see that.
Ms. Kaui: Okay, thank you. I just kind of want to make
a comment of that too. I know that we are a smaller County but in some situations
where you have like Police and Fire, I mean, even if it is you know, it is a smaller
County you know, the job is still demanding with regards to them being twenty-four
seven (24/7), you know and always on-call. So you know, we did take that into
consideration, but we will try to get the information requested to you.
Councilmember Kuali`i: I accept that. That is why I think we need
more data to look at things separately. Obviously, Police and Fire there is certain
kinds of considerations and exceptions there.
COUNCIL MEETING 16 MARCH 27, 2019
Ms. Kaui: Okay.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Especially even with what we hear about the
number of police officer's on a beat and how the citizens were saying we need more.
I just want to see more information on how it all breaks down.
Ms. Kaui: Okay.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Thank you.
Ms. Kaui: Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Evslin.
Councilmember Evslin: Staff, is it possible for us to bring the
comparison chart to show it up there just so everybody can see it? The comparison
showing local to State salaries? I do have some questions. So, just to be totally clear
Mike, nobody of the thirteen (13)positions you folks have authority over, none of them
will get a raise as of July 1, 2019 and none would be even considered for at least
one (1) year?
Mr. Dahilig: Until at least one (1) year in.
Councilmember Evslin: That five percent (5%) increase over the
2017 Resolution, is that based on Consumer Price Index (CPI) of two and one half
percent (2.5%) per year? So those of two (2) years...
Mr. Dahilig: I do want to make one clarification is that the
2017 Resolution picked up the salaries that were not raised in the 2016 Resolution.
So, some have not had a bump in three (3) years and some have not had a bump in
two (2) years. So again, alluding to what the Chair was referring to with the
messiness that came about in previous iteration that some got...the 2017 Resolution
addressed some of the messiness that happened with the 2016 batch.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: I will try and give a quick summary and Staff,
correct me if I am wrong. I think when I first came on the Council in 2014, a
Salary Resolution came up and that one was rejected at that time. Then in 2016, a
Salary Resolution came up. Council ended up splitting positions and it ended up
super messy. I do not know how many meetings we had on it and there were
arguments on who was going to be in each bracket? It was kind of messy. That is
why I said, that is the only word I can use for when we start splitting it out because
in reality, we are supposed to take a step back and look at the position. Do we think
that this position pay is commensurate with whatever it should be? When we start
splitting it out, it goes out to more towards who is in the position? It was a very messy
COUNCIL MEETING 17 MARCH 27, 2019
process. In the end, I believe some got approved in 2016 and some got approved in
2017. At that time, when we were looking at the salary increases, I think and I
believe Big Island was still...we might have been the lowest. At that time when we
did it, we jumped. Big Island got kind of closer to Maui, and O`ahu was still higher.
Since then, you can see in 2018-2019, Hawai`i, Honolulu, and Maui all jumped their
salaries and now there is a huge gap again. That is where you are able to see that
huge gap. Now it is like a twenty thousand dollar ($20,000) gap between us and them.
At time when we did it in 2017, we were kind of jumping up to get close to them and
then now they all jumped within the last two (2) years. So, that is where we have the
big gap and that is where we are today.
Councilmember Evslin: Can everybody read all of that? So that five
percent (5%) though is CPI for two (2) years?
Ms. Kaui: That is how we calculate it.
Councilmember Evslin: The Consumer Price Index. Our cost of living
increase are pretty standard in private sector and government?
Ms. Kaui: Yes. I believe it is, yes. Just the regular
inflation.
Councilmember Evslin: So that is all that five percent (5%) is. Do you
have data on the number of applicants possibly for our Department Head and Deputy
positions? Maybe Mike, on this last you know, how many people applied to be County
Engineer for example?
Mr. Dahilig: We had two (2) individuals that when we were
going through the transition process that met the Charter qualifications. Again, it
goes beyond just the Charter qualification when you are looking at leadership
potential. It was determined that...do we look at just trying to plug a hole with a
Charter qualified person or do we look at somebody that has leadership ability? I
think that we said, "Look, we need to find somebody with leader ability for that
position." So, it is a hard skill to find especially given that you have unemployment
under three percent (3%). Typically that means that job market is really, really hot
right now for movement and high private sector salaries. We have been having
particularly with that position and not just with the County Engineer, but retention
problems even with our licensed engineers that are line staff. So, this is a problem
that not only is being felt at with the Administrative part, but also with our line folks
that we are trying to bring in. What will typical happen is you will see a young
Engineer out of college come in, work for a couple of years, get their
professional engineer (PE) through us, and ends up happening is they get something
where...and in a lot of cases when we try to banter back and forth, they are offered
COUNCIL MEETING 18 MARCH 27, 2019
sometimes doubled the salary of what they are getting. So, that professional license
is a hot commodity right now in the private sector.
Councilmember Evslin: Sort of related to that, do you have data on the
number of the rate of turnover in these positions?
Mr. Dahilig: As it comes to the actual civil service
positions, that is something that we have not mine, but it is something that we can
mine, if that is something that you would like.
Councilmember Evslin: Or do you even like say with the Office of the
County Attorney or the Office of the Prosecuting Attorney, the average like duration
of a Deputy, do we know that?
Mr. Dahilig: Not offhand, but it is something that we can
try to put together.
Councilmember Evslin: Also, are we tracking sort of an annual dollar
amount in employee related management lawsuits? Say sexual harassment lawsuits
et cetera within departments?
Mr. Dahilig: I am sure we have a figure somewhere. It is
not something that we have done a correlation for but I am sure that given what you
are suggestion we can provide that information for you.
Councilmember Evslin: Final question, for these positions that
require Professional Degrees, what is the cost of like a law degree or engineering
degree and what to the student loans end up coming out too?
Mr. Dahilig: Well, I will say that I am still paying off my
student loans from Law School and in fact my student loans at one point were more
than my mortgage. So, if that gives any consideration as to the cost burden of a higher
education and an advanced degree in this day and age that is what it is. At the
University of Hawai`i for example, it takes one hundred sixty (160) credits to get an
engineering degree rather than one hundred twenty-eight (128), which is typically
required for a bachelor's degree. So it already presupposed that you are going to have
a five-year college cost burden versus a typical four when you are looking at
something to be eligible for licensure. Tuition at the University of Hawai`i, I think is
about twelve thousand dollars ($12,000) a year?
Ms. Kaui: About three hundred dollars ($300) a credit.
Mr. Dahilig: It is not cheap and it is not including a lab
fees, text books, living expenses, and et cetera. We can get into a discussion of the
COUNCIL MEETING 19 MARCH 27, 2019
larger burden that higher education is placing on young people these days, but it is
what it is.
Councilmember Evslin: I am sorry a couple more questions. So
Department Heads and their Deputies do not get overtime, right?
Mr. Dahilig: No.
Councilmember Evslin: Are they the only positions within
departments that do not get overtime?
Mr. Dahilig: Typically appointed positions do not or are
considered exempt from Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) type of requirements.
Councilmember Evslin: A former Department Planning Director,
what is the average like weekly hourly commitment there?
Mr. Dahilig: Well, not counting my nineteen (19) days in
Wainiha, I would say that is probably between fifty to sixty (50-60) hours a week, at
least.
Councilmember Evslin: Could you talk a little bit about inversion and
why it happens maybe and how many of these positions have high levels of inversion?
Mr. Dahilig: The "X" factor here is that we have collective
bargaining increases that each of the commensurate unions and civil service
(inaudible) continue to go up over time. So those are negotiated largely and you have
one (1) that is going to be coming up shortly with Fire that you are going to have to
give the Council body's blessing on. That is the case across the board where we have
seen the collective bargaining increases actually not be flat over the past ten (10)
years. Right now we are in the largest expansion since the 2008 recession and that
milestone was recently hit. As you can tell from the low unemployment rate, the
collective bargaining increases over time have been meant also to keep pace with the
increasing salaries across all boards; right? So as the Commission had looked at
because that is why the indicators from the Department of Labor are so important to
look at because that is reflective of just inflationary plus if there is a little bit of
expansion and typically what we are at about roughly a three percent (3%) inflation
rate...two to three percent (2-3%) inflation rate.
Councilmember Evslin: Sorry, my last question. So when you are
recruiting internally for Deputy or a Department Head position, are most of the time
that those people are taking a pay cut when they move up in those positions?
COUNCIL MEETING 20 MARCH 27, 2019
Mr. Dahilig: If it is comparative too. Let us say we are
trying to get a County Engineer that we pull out from our ranks, because of the way
that the executive managerial salaries are set for civil service, they would be taking
a pay cut, plus lose the opportunity for overtime. So, the ability of asking any one of
our division chiefs to fill in the County Engineer role is why you are not seeing that
happen. One (1), they do not have the overtime ability. Second, they also are already
at a base making quite a bit more than what the base salary is for the County
Engineer.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Councilmember Evslin: How about for some of the Commission, Police
and Fire?
Mr. Dahilig: I think, again, without looking at the person,
the particular salary inversion creates a scenario where the Police Chief or the Fire
Chief becomes very attractive to somebody who is outside of the system. So, the
ability to move up through the ranks is because of the inversion. It does not make
sense for somebody to actually have a homegrown scenario versus when you...
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present.)
Mr. Dahilig ...are looking at somebody that has retired,
gotten their credentials, and then decides to come in for a second paycheck. That is
what the current situation is ripe for hatching, I guess.
Councilmember Evslin: Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: I have a question on Housing. There was
"Human Concerns" added to the Housing position? Can you explain the rationale on
that? If Housing is going to be the new Housing and Human Concern person? Or...
that is a new thing to see Housing and Human Concerns.
Mr. Dahilig: What is clear is a lot of the work under the
Housing portfolio is related to that continuum of care discussion. We now have a
Homeless Coordinator that does take a look at the homeless issues, which are largely
driven by other societal factors. So that discussion of the broader mission on Housing
is what is coming into play. When you look at Maui County, that is similar to what
Maui County does with their Housing portfolios, that they do wrap-around services
with their Housing Development arm. We did not necessarily ask for the
nomenclature or title of the position to be changed, but it is clear that the subject
matter of that particular position is going to be expanding, especially with the
proposals we are going to be bringing for the budget in this upcoming two (2) weeks.
COUNCIL MEETING 21 MARCH 27, 2019
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Any other questions from the members?
Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i: You know you were talking a little about
inversion and the problem that it is. Would you say that it is pretty much a
self-inflicted problem with the misuse and abuse of overtime? I know that in this
next budget session we might be hearing from I think at least the Fire Department
on how they are addressing the misuse and abuse of overtime. Also unrelated, but
the spiking issue with retirement. If you end up raising salaries because of the people
working below this Chief or Deputy Chief, whatever, is making all this money but
that money is based a lot on all of this overtime, which some of it is misuse and abuse?
We have heard from Vice Chair Kagawa and others before, this inversion problem in
many ways is self-inflicted.
Mr. Dahilig: In the transmittal packet, again I cannot
speak for the Commissioners, but when you look at the transmittal packet, the
scenario you explained is very apparent when it comes to certain departments. So it
is not for, I guess, it is a contributing factor when you look at overall compensation.
If we are just looking at base, then that is very apparent with a couple of departments.
So, it is an issue. It is a management issue and I know that the Council has in past
and will be looking at this issue with respect to just management in general.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Right.
Mr. Dahilig: It is indicative of other departments that are
in the bucket that inversion is largely a result of base salary and not of total
compensation.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Right.
Mr. Dahilig: So, it is a mixed bag, I would say. It is a
contributing factor. Yes, I will agree, Councilmember, that with certain departments
there has been a...
Councilmember Kuali`i: So the Salary Commission did provide us with
Exhibit B. The one thing I had asked about that if it can provide is dates so that we
know what we are talking about as far as if that is the last information? That thing
about the salary inversion, it is very clear in here, that so many of these
positions...and yes, it is predominantly Fire and Police, but there are positions
elsewhere too, like in Finance and Engineering where the overtime amount in some
instances is, like, forty percent (40%), maybe even getting close to fifty percent (50%)
of the overall salary. Therefore, if somebody is having to work overtime that much,
how is that even possible? Is there enough hours in the day? That would mean
management is failing miserably with how they are scheduling the time, workload,
COUNCIL MEETING 22 MARCH 27, 2019
and whether they need another position or what have you? Overtime needs to be
addressed and this impacts this salary proposal. To me, it is wrong to try and fix
something like that if it is that broken.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: I can tell you as far as Finance goes, that
overtime is overtime used during the audit and working with the auditors. That was
a question I had on that.
Councilmember Kuali`i: It is forty percent (40%).
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Yes?
Council Chair Kaneshiro: I meant, Councilmember Chock. Sorry, I was
not scolding you, sorry. I was looking at Councilmember Chock and called you.
Councilmember Chock: This year's Resolution is done differently,
laid-out differently, into three (3) parts. I just wanted to make sure I get a clear
understanding of it. What I hear and what I am trying to clarify is it be based on
past discrepancies at Council-level, which is one good reason for it to be segmented.
What I am seeing here and what I am reading is that group 1 is really just general
increases based on elected and appointed officials. Group 2 is based on certifications,
health and safety positions, and then you have put out the Council separate,
Legislative branch, yes? So in terms of if there is and maybe there is not from you
folks because it seems to say the logic does not say there is a priority of each group.
We have talked about comparative analyses or comparative advantage here. Would
you say that group 2, because of its certifications and specific in terms of skillset is
something that needs to be addressed more readily than group 1, for instance? You
can just say, "No, we want it all, so just take it or leave it."
Ms. Kaui: Yes, exactly. I think it is all important. I do
not think there is a priority, but looking at all of the different positions we felt that
we wanted to group it that way. Yes, I feel that all of those positions are important
positions.
Councilmember Chock: So again,just to kind of walk through the logic
of the Salary Commission, why separate the health and safety and the certifications?
Was there any specific reason for it? If what we are wanting is across the board
increases?
Ms. Kaui: Good question. Do you want to chime in?
COUNCIL MEETING 23 MARCH 27, 2019
Ms. Ching: If I may, there was a separation and
consideration for the degrees and the hard to fill position. For those positions, there
were additional increases over and above the CPI. It was an attempt by the
Commission to address the testimonies, the people that came in, and the issues that
they brought forth to the Salary Commission.
Councilmember Chock: Would you characterize group 2 as more
difficult to fill because of its certifications and plus the salaries are bigger in gap?
Ms. Ching: Most certainly especially with the County
Engineer's position that is included in part 2.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Cowden.
(Councilmember Chock was noted as not present.)
Councilmember Cowden: Yes. I can say that I might be a little bit of an
outlier in our organization here partly because my background is dominantly in being
an owner of a private business. So, that experience tells me that an organization gets
what they pay for. So, I really appreciate the questions of my colleagues and I just
think I interpret them just a little bit different. The same answers come to me a little
bit differently. Yes, we have an accountability to our taxpayers. We did have a
General Excise Tax (GET) increase. So, it is very important that people cannot pay
more taxes. What I understand that is, you know...mistakes are avoided when
Department Heads are holding experience. That they have good relationships with
the community and all those around them, and very importantly here on Kaua`i is
that there is a cultural understanding. Not slamming people that are brought in from
the Continental United States or elsewhere, but it is really valuable to me when they
have this cultural understanding. So, when I think about the GET increase I also
would like to see by area, where we do have these collective lawsuit settlements; it
seems like those are really quite a lot. I would like to see when we have big increases
on these bidded projects, sometimes it goes up...
(Councilmember Chock was noted as present.)
Councilmember Cowden: ...within a few weeks five hundred thousand
dollars ($500,000) that type of thing. To me that comes from experience issues. So,
efficient decisions and effective leadership really come when we bring in quality
experienced people. Now, I want to say that I am sort of proud of how young our
leadership is in the County. We have a lot of young Department Heads. At first, I
was almost embarrassed to see that they are deputies who are these people that are
a decade or two (2) older, if not more. I thought wow that is a little insulting, until I
COUNCIL MEETING 24 MARCH 27, 2019
looked at the payroll, then I understood why. That number two position is actually
the one who is getting compensated in a way that is appropriate for the number one
position. So maybe we have figured out a way to still make it work out? We take our
number one person and we make them numbertwo, we build up our next leadership.
Maybe that is appropriate? I really am excited about our young leaders. I cannot
help but notice that. I want to also notice that over the years, especially in the last
Administration a number of Department Heads who I had a great deal of respect for
are working second jobs. So if they are helping me with the luggage at the airport,
or where I park my car, or things like, I question our wisdom when we do that. There
is a number of them. At the State too if you have the Vice Principal working baggage
claim, that is a problem. What I know is if you have an exhausted employee or staff
member, or team member, you have low productivity. That low productivity leads to
mistakes that cost us money. I am encouraged to hear that we are going wait one
year and a half(11/2) or whatever to actually raise these rates because they are already
picked, and these commitments like Councilmember Kagawa has stated relating to,
people needing to come from the heart and the right reason, but we want to hold on
to them. So what I have noticed with...I will be honest as a citizens a little bit of
embitterment when I sit at Planning Commission meetings and I see who is at the
back of the room...a bunch of former Planning Directors, right? Sitting there and
they do not have to say a word and they get all of choices, right? I look at our young
Planning Department and our young legal department, and I go "Hey, this is a paid
internship for the big companies." With love and respect to all of those people who
have made that move, that move is natural choice. So, by the time we have our
Department Heads and our Attorneys up to speed and experience that is what is
happening? Okay, I need to turn this into a question, right?
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Please.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay, thank you and I noticed even that.
Alright, Michael and Trinette, please help me to feel that where I am asking the
wrong point because I am seeing that we cannot get our key positions or hold them.
Is that accurate? When people leave...so I did ask a few questions for if we defer this.
I want to have those numbers. I want to have how much goes to lawsuits? How much
goes to these mistakes? How much goes to bid changes? Then, I want to know when
people leave, like it is not a Department Head, but we just lost an amazing people
from the Treasury. When people leave, what is the main reason that they leave?
Michael Dahilig, Managing Director.
Mr. Dahilig: I cannot provide statistics at this point. I can
anecdotally answer your question that yes, it is some of what you have observed. I
had a good friend of mine who is an attorney and I will not mention his name who
was servicing the Planning Department that left for a position that pays...I would
guess about two hundred dollars to three hundred dollars ($200-$300) an hour,
billable. I have seen other attorneys especially with the Office of the County
COUNCIL MEETING 25 MARCH 27, 2019
Attorney, move in and out just because of the pay disparity is quite a bit when you
are looking at the private sector. When you are looking at Planning, the Planning
Director became the Managing Director. So I do not know if that was a smart move,
but that is what happened in this case. It is in effect, you see some former, like
Councilmember Kagawa pointed out, some folks that were the heads go into the civil
service ranks, and stay there because of the quality-of-life issues. It is hard to break
it into specific statistical evidence of what you are suggesting, but everybody has their
own reasons why they want to leave at a certain time. A lot of what I do see recently
though is...and you have seen this indicative of the spiking situation, is that folks
that are close to the end ranks of retirement are going to retire right on the dime.
Whether that be an appropriate retirement age versus you know that health care is
a lot better and people can live longer and be productive members of society is another
question. You are seeing folks, they know when their vesting period is, they know
when they can hit fifty-five (55), and they know all of this. There is a system and
they gain it. They will hit it right at twenty-five (25) and fifty-five (55) and they will
go out. So that financial factor is a motivator too, why people will leave.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Evslin.
Councilmember Evslin: Just a follow-up to her question on trying to
look at potential employee lawsuits per department. If we could break that down, if
possible? Over time to see if a change in ten (10) year or a change in leadership makes
an impact? Also, if we do track it, I do not know if we have County Attorney time for
these departments; for employee disputes? If that information is there it would be
sort of like billable hours, you know they are not going to (inaudible).
Council Chair Kaneshiro: I have a clarification on these lawsuits. Are
you talking about a lawsuit specific to that Department Head or just lawsuits within
the department? I mean, you can be a Department Head and have an employee do
something absolutely idiotic, and the Department Head had no hand in it, but they
have to deal with the lawsuit. So, in your analysis on this I guess, I just want to be
clear what we are looking at to analyze? Is it lawsuits that the Department Head
was specifically responsible for and costed this much money so their pay should be
more to get a better head or what the question is? I do not want them have to do all
the work and it does not kind of relate to each other.
Councilmember Cowden: I want it within the department because the
bottom line is the buck stops with the person at the top. If they are not noticing
anything from sexual harassment, to irresponsible driving, and repeated mistakes
with hitting other cars, to just general bad judgment. Sometimes that comes from
morale issues. If we had it in there I want to know. If we are allowed to know that?
Who is working a second and a third job? That is the kind of thing that brings the
morale of the whole organization down. So I want to know it by department.
COUNCIL MEETING 26 MARCH 27, 2019
Mr. Dahilig: Can you possibly give us a time period'?
Ten (10) years?
Councilmember Cowden: Five (5) years or ten (10) years. Just trying to
look at a trend line, because when I see these things like with the Police and the Fire,
when we are hearing all of this about the spiking and we will talk about that a little
more deeper lately, but we did have a really bad year last year. I think if we are
looking at how many times we have an environmental crisis, we did not just have last
April; we have had several. So, when we have people working exhaustively overtime,
and in the Police Department when we chronically cannot hire somebody and I beg
to differ that is the Department Head in that case, because that is a national problem.
With also Police and Fire, I think that this is a real critical piece. When we hire
people with no again...slammed the people who did not grow up here, but if you
showed up yesterday, you cannot tell one (1)...a ten (10) syllable name from the
eight (8) syllable name that all start with a "K" and they sound the same.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: We are going to need a question.
Councilmember Cowden: Yes, so, I am sorry thank you. I got my
opinion in here but I feel strongly about it.
Councilmember Kagawa: It is only because if you do discussion then
when we actually do discussion we will only get five (5) minutes and...
Councilmember Cowden: Okay, so...
Council Chair Kaneshiro: To make it fair with all the Councilmembers.
Councilmember Cowden: I want to see if for the Police and Fire, how
much is accrued during these times of crisis? We had twenty-four (24) firemen, I
think...twenty-three (23) to twenty-four (24) retire? So did they really spike or did
we really have a problem?
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Will this affect your vote on what the pay for
the Police Chief should be?
Councilmember Cowden: Yes, absolutely because...
Council Chair Kaneshiro: How much overtime they had during the time
of crisis?
Councilmember Cowden: Well, because what we are saying here and
what we are seeing is that we cannot get an internal person to move up. So if I looked
at these numbers right, a Deputy does almost two hundred thousand
COUNCIL MEETING 27 MARCH 27, 2019
dollars ($200,000) a year pay, and the person who is his boss, or her boss, makes
seventy-five thousand dollars ($75,000) a year less.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Let me say this, as far as looking at lawsuits
and departments, the fact of the matter is there is only three (3) vacant positions
right now. Every other position is filled. So if we are going to look at lawsuits in
departments that already have Department Heads, is that going to determine
whether you want to increase the salary on them or not, or penalize them? We are
no here to judge the individual...
Councilmember Cowden: Yes, it does because we have this ability and I
know it was a mess last time and I am not trying to do that. When we can reject in
entirety or in part, when we are looking at what it is, if we take one (1) position and
hold every other position accountable for no pay raise, we cripple the dexterity of our
County and we are saying, "Hey, we have a new Mayor and he does not have enough
time?" I am thinking okay we have one year and a half(1%) year out and we need to
have the dexterity to have and to pull in good people. That is my opinion and that is
why I am asking.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: I am just trying to say I want to limit the
amount of work that they have to do because there is only three (3) vacant positions.
If we are going to look at current positions that have Department Heads, we are not
here to judge them, we are not here to say, "These Department Heads are doing good
and we are going to give them a raise." Again, we need to look at the position and
say "is this a position that deserves this type of pay and not who is in there, how many
lawsuits have they caused, let us keep them down but put somebody else out."
Councilmember Cowden: It is not about them. It is about the position.
Like which position needs some help? Whether that position is opened or not, we are
looking at a trend line. So there might be three (3) positions open but when we look
at this one (1) year or two (2) in the future, we are going to look at like what we did
last time. So, I just think for me it is important.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: Yes, I mean we had...if you are talking about
the Police Chief and the Fire Chief; we have had prior to Mayor Kawakami taking
office, we had Assistant Chiefs or highly-decorated ones wanting the job. We had
former Deputy Fire Chief for Kaua`i County wanting the job. So it is not the pay.
Nothing do with the pay. Did they meet the criteria as specified by Mike, Managing
Director, apparently not?
Councilmember Cowden: Okay.
COUNCIL MEETING 28 MARCH 27, 2019
Councilmember Kagawa: He did not get the job. So, it was not the pay.
We have had people in there, local brothers that wanted the job. They did not get the
job.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Any further questions from the members?
Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Just a quick one (1). You know when you
provide like Exhibit B, it looks like a table or a spreadsheet. I am just curious if you
have also provided that to us electronically? If not, could you? Okay. Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Any other questions?
Ms. Ching: Council, clarification please. So, is that
specific to Exhibit B or all of the exhibits?
Councilmember Kuali`i: Anything. "A", "B", or anything that looks
either like a spreadsheet or Microsoft Word if you could provide it electronically so
that I can manipulate the data. Analyze it, not manipulate.
Council Chair Kane shiro: Councilmember Evslin.
Councilmember Evslin: Just to clarify the question regarding
lawsuits. For me it is not necessarily about the three (3) vacant positions. It is about
making sure that our Deputies and Department Heads are the most qualified possible
going back. The reason to look into lawsuits is just to see does the leadership and
changes in leadership impact the bottom line (inaudible) raise in lawsuits. So I do
not actually care which department specifically might have these changes, but I
would like to say "hey, this change in tenure happened and there was a spike in
lawsuits" and then we can correlate it that way. Do not spend a lot of time on it, only
if the data is there?
Ms. Kaui: Yes.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Any further questions? If not, we are going
to take public testimony. Okay, thank you. While the rules are still suspended do
we have anyone signed up?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: We have no registered speakers right now.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Okay. We will just go Liz first. Sit in the hot
seat. You will be closer to the light, you will be closer to the light there. Liz, you
know the rules, yes? You have three (3) minutes. State your name for the record.
COUNCIL MEETING 29 MARCH 27, 2019
The light is going to turn green, it will turn yellow when you have thirty (30) seconds,
and it will turn red when the three (3) minutes is up.
Councilmember Cowden: Push the button so we are able to hear.
Councilmember Kagawa: There you go.
ELIZABETH HAHN: My name is Elizabeth Hahn and I currently
serve on the Civil Service Commission and our Commission is tasked with finding
our Human Resources Department Head. We have well qualified people, person, who
has to take a pay cut, who was our head, and has reverted back because of what you
were talking about where people under them earn more money. So now we are tasked
with finding a new Department Head. I am just speaking as one person. I am not
speaking on behalf of the Commission. As a volunteer who serves on a Commission,
I think overall we have to find a sense of setting unity as a goal. It is not just some
of the parts. It is the spirit of how we serve the island of Kaua`i. Whether we are
appointed, whether we volunteer, or whether it is our job. I ask you, the one (1) thing
you can do is to allow us to give a decent salary to a person whose responsibility is
the entire civil service employment of our County. I know this is just one (1) person,
but this is a very important person and it is the one that I have to deal with; this
position I should say, position, not person. So please keep that in mind that we as a
Commission may have to go outside if we cannot find anybody inside and we have to
look at maybe not the best fit. Listening to you today was very educational and I see
the problems that you have. I would like to speak highly in favor of approving this
Bill that you heard, this Resolution that you have in front of you. It is going to affect
all of our departments who depend on workers on this island. Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Thank you.
MARY KAY HERTOG: Good morning. I am Mary Kay Hertog and I
am your volunteer Chair for the Kaua`i Police Commission. I certainly understand
and absolutely respect especially Councilmember Kagawa's concern about the timing
of this Resolution, but I felt that after the whole Commission voted, after we did our
eight (8) month job search, and hired a brand new police chief coming from the
mainland that we needed to go to the Salary Commission and let them understand
why we hired somebody from the mainland. It was a lot about the pay. Let me be
very clear about that. We had only one (1) internal candidate from the Kaua`i Police
Department (KPD) apply for this job. We had one hundred thirty-two (132) other
candidates apply. The majority of them from the mainland. Only three (3) total from
the entire State and one (1) dropped out. The reason why we went with this
individual from the mainland was because the person was the best qualified. Our
candidate from KPD had much less time as a police officer, but there is no doubt in
my mind that one (1) day this person might end up being the chief. To me, the
definition of a leadership is growing your next replacement. That is with we hope
COUNCIL MEETING 30 MARCH 27, 2019
this new hope this new chief will do with many of the lieutenants and captains that
we have in the department. Grow them up to make take command of KPD at a time.
We went back and asked, I did personally, and some of the other Commissioners did
too, why certain officers did not apply for the job and it was about the pay. They
make a lot more in overtime and as Councilmember Cowden pointed out, this was a
heck of a year last year. The other problem is we are down seventeen (17) officers in
the Police Department. It is about to get worse this year because we have more
retiring and some resigning to go the mainland. So when you have more work than
you have officers to cover it, and that is really what is driving somebody overtime. I
do appreciate your comments about pension spiking and things like that. If you have
specific names and concerns, we would love to take a look at as the Police Commission
and as of the new chief coming in. The other reason we hired an individual from the
mainland was because she State of Hawai`i has a rule that if you are a retiree, and
you go in and apply for another job, you do not have that opportunity to get your
retirement pay while you are collecting the pay from the State. Other States do not
have that rule. So that way, somebody from the mainland, who receives a retirement
check could afford to live here on Kaua`i. We had thought and hoped that we would
get some retired police officers from Kaua`i to apply for the job; not one (1). So there
is a lot of different factors into this. We did take some heat and we have heard a lot
of criticism and comments on Facebook and things like that. Why did you not hire
somebody local? I want to go on record that is why. We were really strapped and we
could not. Would that have been our first choice? Yes, if that person was as qualified
as the person we hired. We feel we hired a very, very qualified individual coming
from the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police, and that this person will do an outstanding
job. We would hope that all of you would support this person at their change of
command on April 22, 2019. Thank you, any questions?
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: Mary, I do not want to downplay the fact that
there are a lot of people that take jobs on Kaua`i for less pay that are from the
mainland because of our beauty here, and the people...
Ms. Hertog: Absolutely. Quality of life.
Councilmember Kagawa: They feel that it is better to raise a family here
rather than in Las Vegas. That is a factor, too, right?
Ms. Hertog: Absolutely. Quality of life.
Councilmember Kagawa: It is not just pay-for-pay. We have a lot of
people from the mainland who want to come here to Kaua`i, period.
COUNCIL MEETING 31 MARCH 27, 2019
Ms. Hertog: This individual started their law enforcement
career on O`ahu, so they know the islands and they were very excited to be selected
for the job, but you are absolutely right.
Councilmember Kagawa: So, we welcome him to Kaua`i.
Ms. Hertog: Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: I commend your efforts on that. I know it is a
difficult task and I am glad you brought up the fact about...yes, the process is slated
against the residents based on State laws. If someone is working in the department,
they are able to collect overtime, if they have been in the department for a long time,
maybe their base salary is really high too. If they have been in the department over
twenty-five (25) years, then what is the motivation to go and take a pay cut to go in
at the chiefs position? Not much. A retired police officer from Kaua`i, you would
think would be a great candidate, but if their pension is at stake, why would they go
and take a police chief job? I am sure there is plenty that would love to take the police
chief's job, but their pension is at stake. Then you have a mainland person that can
come in who does not have, who is retired on the mainland, they can collect their
pension...
Ms. Hertog: As well.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: ...live in Kaua`i, retire on Kaua`i, and be the
police chief. I mean...yes, the odds are against us of finding local personnel. I wish
we could change the laws and the way it is at. I would love for retired people not to
have their pension at stake. They have all the knowledge of working here and you
know the working knowledge of Kaua`i. Unfortunately, it is something we really
cannot change.
Ms. Hertog: Absolutely.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: It would be at a State-level. So I really
appreciate you bringing that up and just the difficulty and the criticism we get, but
that is the fact of the matter.
Ms. Hertog: The fact of life. I want to give kudos to the
individuals that did apply for the job because that person was willing to take a pay
cut, a big pay cut, if he was selected to be the chief. That to me is very selfless. We
had some individuals tell us out right, "Why would I want to be the chief, twenty-four
seven (24/7), take a huge pay cut like that? Why would I want to do that?" So, I feel
very confident that we do have some people that as they come up and get developed
that they will be great contenders perhaps to be the next chief.
COUNCIL MEETING 32 MARCH 27, 2019
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Thank you.
Ms. Hertog: Any other questions? Thank you very much
for your time.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Anyone else in the audience wishing to
testify?
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Usually I would speak last, but I will go first
on this. Let me state first the process on this. So again let me be clear, in this
situation with an excused member, it is even worse as far as the minority being able
to pass it. I think it would only need two (2) members to vote for the Salary Resolution
and it would pass. Usually it would take three (3), but with an excused member, it
only takes two (2). I am very hesitant to take a vote. If the vote is going that way and
if there is one (1) vote that wants to pass this Salary Resolution, I would say that we
should defer because it is even...a three (3) vote is a minority passing a Bill. A
two (2) vote is even worse, but it can happen here with an excused member. So, I
would like for us to maybe state our peace and kind of let me know where the
members are at. If there is any member thinking of passing this Resolution now,
then my ask would be that we defer it until we have all members. I do not know
which way Councilmember Brun is going to vote, but with a minority vote being able
to pass a Resolution, we should have everybody here. Especially if it is close. If
everybody says we will reject then it is easy, we can vote on it now, and one (1) vote
is not going to make a difference. If one (1) person is going to support it, that vote
matters. So that is the process.
I will state where I am at real clearly and you can start my time. I appreciate
everything that the Salary Commission put together. I have been here for I do not
know, two (2) or three (3) resolutions that came through the Council. I know that
submitting a salary resolution is their job. Although nobody likes to see increases
come in, that is their job. Their job is to provide us with what they think is a proper
comparison for these positions every year and it is our job to decide whether we want
to pass this today? If the budget has a means for it? That is our job. They are doing
their job. I read their minutes, I read their rationale, and I really appreciate all your
hard work. I will not be voting for this Resolution today. I do appreciate everything
the Salary Commission has brought. I appreciate their work and I completely
understand everything that they did. I actually agree with everything that they did
and with the increases that they did. For me, the problem is the timing of this. I
really do have a problem with us doing this increase when the Department Heads
have only been in office for six (6) months. There is only three (3) positions that are
not hired yet. As far as you know giving these raises, I mean I would probably be
COUNCIL MEETING 33 MARCH 27, 2019
more likely to accept the Salary Resolution like this next year when we have had a
chance to see what has happened, and the Department Heads have had time to get
adjusted. Maybe these three (3) positions will still be opened? Yes, it is even more
justification for an increase. Maybe we might have people drop out? For me, I am
not comfortable with setting the limit now. We can say as much as we want, "We will
not set it, we will not increase, and we will not increase pay now," then why do we
need to pass it today? Let us pass it, let us have it come up again. The Salary
Commission is going to keep sending it. That is their job to send it every year. Why
do we have to pass it today if no one is going to increase the pay anyways? As far as
inversion goes, there is many reasons for inversion. Again with Ms. Hertog up here,
I am glad she explained the Fire Chief and Police Chiefs inversion. You know, that
is the consequence of many things while it is a difficult time. It is difficult to hire a
Fire or Police Chief. Again, the odds are stacked against our residents because a
current police officer can collect overtime. If they have been in department a long
time, their base pay may be higher than the chiefs base pay. They may have been
serving for thirty-three (33) years at the County. Understandably their base pay is
going to be higher than the chief. I do not think that is a problem. I think they have
deserved and have been here a long time. Overtime...yes overtime, managing
overtime does create inversion also. There are many factors to inversion. We are
able to say, "Look at all these folks." If a police officer has been working at the County
for over thirty (30) years and his base pay is over, I do not really consider that so
much a problem of inversion. They have worked their time. They have been there.
Whether they want to take the step to police chief that is up to them. Again, the
cards are really stacked against our residents. Retired police officers, they might
jeopardize their pension. Why would they go and do that?
Then as far as budget goes, budget ramifications. If we pass this now, then
that means in the Supplemental Budget, there is going to be adjustments. That
means that the Office of the Mayor is going to have to come up with over five hundred
thousand dollars ($500,000) worth of cuts; within departments or within the budget
to accommodate this increase. So is that five hundred thousand dollars ($500,000)
you know just sitting there? Is it put in there on purpose to move it? I do not know.
Again, we got the budget; we are looking at the budget. If this passes they need to
put in the max salary in the budget. Whether they give the raises or not, the budget
needs to be reflective of this. So again, for me, I would rather have the timing come
before the budget. If it does pass, again my vote is no, if it does pass there is going to
have to be adjustments to the Supplemental Budget to cut expenses somewhere to
accommodate for these higher salaries and benefits. There is going to be benefits,
there is going to be retirement, and there is going to be everything else that comes
with it. That is something that the Council needs to consider. It is going to affect the
budget right away. A vote on this will affect the budget today, the gap. Again, I told
you the process. There is a gap, yes; but we recently increased the pay in 2017. The
reason there is a gap is all the other Counties just recently increased their pay. So
there is a gap. Again, for me it is...you know, the budget is here. I would love to see
COUNCIL MEETING 34 MARCH 27, 2019
the Salary Resolution come out before the budget, so if we do pass it, the
Administration has time to incorporate it into the budget. Yes, there is a gap. That
was a fast thirty (30) seconds, okay I will stop. Any other members? Councilmember
Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: First let me start by saying that the
arguments against Police and Fire spiking are totally false. Spiking is when you have
management making thirty thousand dollars ($30,000), forty thousand
dollars ($40,000), or fifty thousand dollars ($50,000) of overtime and you have your
patrol officers or fire fighters making under ten thousand dollars ($10,000). It is direct
evidence that intentional overtime is being given and the facts are in the evidence. If
you look at the overtime reports and do your due diligence. If you look at past two (2)
or three (3) years, you will see for yourself. Those numbers should not reflect that
kind of difference where management is making thirty thousand dollars ($30,000),
forty thousand dollars ($40,000), or fifty thousand dollars ($50,000) more than the
lower ranking folks. It does not amount to the number of responding to emergencies,
it just does not. In the past, Senate President Kouchi told me, "Why is your assistant
chiefs and your battalion chiefs making overtime anyway? They are not supposed to
be making overtime?" I said, "Well things have changed Senate President, things
have changed big time here." So regarding that, it is a problem. The Employees'
Retirement System (ERS) billed us two million one hundred thousand
dollars ($2,100,000) based on their audit of the Kaua`i County. They recognized the
sudden, wow, in last three (3) years your overtime is going up a lot, so here is your
tab Kaua`i County. So there is a problem. The evidence, yes...you want to argue
against the evidence? Well, you go and argue to them, not me.
I want to thank the Salary Commission. You folks did a heck of a job putting
the numbers together. We are playing leapfrog is what is happening, and it is our
turn to leap now. We have responded with our action on the Council for those of us
that were here. I voted against it though, but it passed three to four (3:4). I was not
even for it at that time, but it passed. It is not because I do not believe that they
deserved it. I think Bob knows it along with people that are here. It is just because
of our finances that were so bad, it was in such poor shape, and I did not believe that
we would have vacancies as described. I believe that when people take department
head jobs at Kaua`i County, it is just like the past, when my dad was again deputy
county engineer again, he was making a lot less than his previous position. He took
a huge pay cut from Pacific Missile Range Facility (PMRF); but why did he do it? He
wanted to be the man. He wanted to make a difference for this island and for the
people, and to help Mayor Malapit in fixing this island. So it is a different mentality.
It does not go to say well, if we are not competitive, we cannot attract the best? I
remember we had this person recently in charge of Parks. We got him...he was
running the Disney Parks and he had all these accolades. The workers told me, "He
could not even fix scoreboards." We played several football seasons without the
scoreboards working. This is again, you got a guy on paper with all the accolades,
COUNCIL MEETING 35 MARCH 27, 2019
saying "I have ran all of these parks and this and that," he came down here and he
was a flop. Sometimes what you see on paper is not...or even in the interview, it is
not really reality of how effective they will be. Let us be clear of that. If you look at
the rail, the person that they hired, and if you look at "Evan Dobelle's" and you know
it will tell you the same thing. Sometimes what is on paper is not necessarily true. I
think Mayor Kawakami has gotten a great team. This is why I am speaking out
against it. I think that he has a solid team. I think with his new energy and
leadership, I think his team can be successful. He will be able fix the things that are
necessary to be fixed on the island. I do not think we need to play leapfrog this year
at this time. I think you know when we leap, then the next County is going to leap
again, and it is going to be our turn again in two (2) more years. I think the
leapfrogging has to stop at some point and I think now is the time to stop it. Thank
you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Anyone else? Again, so let me make this clear
on the voting. If there are three (3) people that are willing to vote to pass the salary
increase today, we may as well take the vote and pass. It will only need three (3)
people to pass it. If there is one (1) or two (2), then I would suggest that we defer and
get everyone's vote on it. I would like know where everybody stands on it so that we
know what we are going to do? Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: If I could just add one (1) last thing.
Councilmember Brun has had a tragedy that all of us would probably have missed
this meeting. I think if we feel like it is going to be a split vote then let us defer this
until two (2) weeks. It is that important where we should have the seven (7) members
vote if this is the same kind of vote where the minority wins.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: No, exactly. Again, it takes three (3) votes to
pass. If there are three (3) members here that want to pass it today, it will pass
whether we voted here or whether we vote it in a deferral. Again, it is exactly what
Councilmember Kagawa said, if there is a split vote, one to two (1:2), that last vote
we are going to have to defer and have everybody vote on it. Any other
Councilmembers? Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i: It sounds as if I have heard two (2) no's so far
and I would be the third no. To the Salary Commissioners and all our Commissioners,
mahalo nui loa for your continued service. You are volunteers and you dedicate
yourself to the County and we appreciate that. I want to echo and say let us get
through this Budget. Let us see what this new Administration does when it comes to
addressing the overtime abuses, the spiking abuses, and other issues that affect
salary. Finally, let us be sensitive to our constituency. To all of those people who are
being asked to pay the new General Excise Tax on their everyday life costs and that
is making their daily struggle even harder. I think that we have to take that into
consideration. It is my hope that we can work on our budget in a manner that we can
COUNCIL MEETING 36 MARCH 27, 2019
eliminate this General Excise Tax before the ten (10) year sunset date comes. That
means every year we have to be really tight and work really hard with the budget.
The biggest part of our budget is salaries.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Evslin.
Councilmember Evslin: Thank you to the Salary Commission for the
work that you folks have done and thank you to everyone who spoke today. I have
been in and have a small business for eleven (11) years and we have to consider salary
increases probably on a quarterly basis for all of our employees. For us it is pretty
easy because we have a pretty clear bottom line to look at. Is this person contributing
more in value measured on a profit margin to the company then they cost? Then we
are able to look at our net profit every year to see how well we are doing along those
lines. With government it is so much harder because we have no clear bottom line.
Our motive here is not to necessarily save money. There is no profit margin for us to
look at, right? How do we measure an effective police chief whose training methods
in management results in a house fire that is getting put out slightly quicker and
saving somebody's possessions, we cannot measure that on a financial statement. Or
a Planning Director and a County Engineer who can reduce the time it takes to get a
permit. Again, we cannot measure that on a financial statement, but that impacts
Kaua`i citizens every day, it grows our economy, and it probably helps housing
et cetera. Right? That is the point of government is health, welfare, and happiness
of our citizens, which we simply do not have a good way to measure it. We need to do
everything possible to attract the best qualified candidates to these positions. From
what we have heard today and from looking through the minutes, you know the
Salary Commission that is super hard to do here because we are so far behind
everywhere else. It is not only a little bit behind the rest of the Counties, it is way
behind the rest of the Counties. When we are talking about leapfrogging, we are
leapfrogging to still be behind. Right? These proposals which are mostly based on
CPI still puts us at the lowest paid of everyone else for almost all of these positions.
Right? That means we cannot attract candidates internally because of inversion
which is a big problem. We cannot attract candidates from around the rest of the
State because everywhere else in the State is paying higher. So all of that leaves is
mainland candidates. Which is good, but we should do all that we can to promote
people here. I do want to say one (1) of the joys of this job has been working some of
the department heads that we have here. I have been just really satisfied with the
work of those who I have worked with, Ka`aina, Lyle, Kanani, Reiko, and others. I
think they are all doing a fantastic job. I am not prepared to say that any of them
should get a raise right now and is why I really support what the Managing Director
is saying that there would be no raises for at least a year. If possible, I think you are
able to tell that I am in support of this Resolution if this could be amended to not even
allow any salary increases until 2020 across the board. I think we can do a better job
of getting a budget next time that will have those included in it from the beginning
instead of trying to scramble right now, I would be in support of that. Lastly, I would
COUNCIL MEETING 37 MARCH 27, 2019
not though, support salary increases for County Council. I do not feel comfortable
voting my own salary increase. I think for the most part this is a great job and I think
all of us are honored to serve in, and you know... we had twenty-five (25) people
running last time. So I do not think we have a dearth of people wanting to do this
job. For the most part, for a job that does not have any minimum qualifications or
real time requirements it is a good job. I am in support of parts...I am not trying to
bring you all down...I love all of you folks. I will support parts 1 and 2, I will not
support part 3, and I would like to try and amend it if we do vote for it to start in
2020, if that would be possible.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Let me clarify on the Council's salaries. If this
thing passes, it will not be our term. We cannot vote on Council salaries to increase
our Council salaries on this term. It would be for Councilmembers on the next term.
Councilmember Kagawa is terming out, so he will not be able to get it. All of us will
need to run for re-election and we have no clue...
Councilmember Kagawa: I am a no.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: We have no clue what is going to happen. You
know again, it is looking at the position. Is this where we think Council salaries
should be in the future? It is not on our own raises. I just wanted to make that
clarification. If it is a "yes" vote on the Council's salaries, is it not to increase it today
or tomorrow, it is for the next term. Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: I am very willing to support
Councilmember Evslin's amendment if we were to be able to ensure that it did not
get raised until next time. Otherwise, we are likely to face the very same argument
that the budget and salary increase comes at the incorrect time together. So I do not
know how by making that an issue this time, it is not going to be an issue next time?
So I support his choice. I want to acknowledge that the macroeconomic crisis that
has faced well beyond Kaua`i and Hawai`i, and even the United States is more severe
in the present than it was in decades past. So it was a lot easier when housing was
not three-quarters (%) of many people's income and they did not have this exorbitant
student debt. The student debt is like having a whole other mortgage. So, I recognize
that I really celebrate everybody who is able to be very selfless in the past and I
understand that has changed a little bit. I do want to say that I hear more complaints
about effective performance and allegiance to a future better paying job than I hear
complaints about taxes from the residents. Right now we are taxing our non-resident
investors and our visitors a lot higher than we are taxing our people. The General
Excise Tax, there are still many who haven not noticed that has happened yet. I
personally probably would not have supported it, but I think I want...so it is clear
that I am in favor of this; but I am happy to wait and learn more in the next two (2)
weeks. I will look closer, Councilmember Kagawa, at what you are saying on the
particular spiking. I have looked, but I will look even closer. I acknowledge
COUNCIL MEETING 38 MARCH 27, 2019
Councilmember Brun really had a crisis, and his vote matters to me. So, I am a yes,
but willing to wait. Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Let me clarify this, I do not know if it will
affect people's votes for a "yes," but we are not able to change the date on the
Resolution so...
Councilmember Cowden: Okay, but we can amend it, right?
Council Chair Kaneshiro: No. Not the date, nope.
Councilmember Cowden: We cannot amend it? We cannot what he is
doing his...
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Nope. We cannot change the date.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Reject in part, reject in whole.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: So the increase would happen when it says it
happens in the amendment.
Councilmember Evslin: May I follow-up really quick?
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Evslin.
Councilmember Evslin: With that being said, the Administration has
said they would not raise it for a year, they are just as accountable to the public as
we are. I would still support it.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: We are coming up on our caption break,
Councilmember Chock. We will actually take the caption break, then we will let you
talk. Ten (10) minute caption break.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 10:32 a.m.
The meeting reconvened at 11:00 a.m., and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Okay, welcome back. Councilmember Chock,
did you want to make any comments?
Councilmember Chock: No thank you sir.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: It is up to you?
COUNCIL MEETING 39 MARCH 27, 2019
Councilmember Chock: Do you want to explain a little of what we are
going to do so...
Council Chair Kaneshiro: I do not know what your position is on it.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Yes.
Councilmember Chock: Sure, I will do that.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: If you want to state your position on this first
and I can kind of explain where we are going to head on this.
Councilmember Chock: Okay, thank you Mr. Chair and thank you
Salary Commission, I really appreciate the work and I actually really appreciate the
way you have laid it out for us. It is true we have had some issues in past in trying
to really discern this. Based on everything that I heard today, I can tell you a couple
of things of at least where I stand right now. I, in general, have been supportive of
this measure, of this Resolution. I really appreciate the Administration's response to
one (1) of the main concerns which was the timing. As Council Chair Kaneshiro
stated, that is his reason for not really supporting the Resolution. So when I looked
at part 1, part 2 versus part 3, and I have outlined it. Basically, what I am coming to
conclusion is in part 1 is the majority of what the Administration's oversight and
evaluative process will cover outside of the Office of the County Clerk. Part 2 really
stands out to me as the one (1) that needs the most attention because of the County
Engineer and because of some of the inversion issues that we are facing with our
health and safety emergency response departments. So that one sits as my priority
as the one I would like to see supported moving forward, if any. If I was to vote on it
right now, that is what I would vote towards. Which would mean that it would be a
part rejection. The reason it would be part rejection and I think I have been pretty
consistent in saying that I will not vote for the Council's salary increases and I am
sticking to it. That means the options for me would be one, to reject in part, either
just taking out number three, or taking out one and three. We know we cannot
change the dates which would be another solution. Which means something is going
to pass; ultimately, because all we need is three (3) votes. If we can all come an
agreement on what it looks like in terms of the motion. I hope that helps clarify
where I am. I am understanding that we have to defer this anyways, and that will
or could make a determination...it will give us more time to answer some of the
questions that we have put on the table. I think that the Commission has done its
job well and we will see some sort of passing on this.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kuali`i.
COUNCIL MEETING 40 MARCH 27, 2019
Councilmember Kuali`i: After the clarification of the July 1, 2019 date
was not able to be changed to July 1, 2020, we only heard from Councilmember Evslin
as far as his position. We have not heard from Councilmember Cowden.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: If you want too...
Councilmember Kuali`i: Her original statement was July 1, 2020. Now
if that is the case, that is next year's Resolution, correct?
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: I am going to say that I am going to have faith
in the Office of the Mayor that he would stand behind his commitment and I will go
really hard if it does not. So I would say that puts me in a "yes" vote, but happy to
learn in the next two (2) weeks. People can give me more information, but if I had to
vote today, I would be a "yes" except for part 3.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Okay. So based on what I have been hearing
I know we are not really in agreement, and there is probably going to be more
discussion on voting in part or which ones you want to take out. If we voted on this
right now I see it as probably a three to three (3:3) vote, which would be a deferral
anyways. Again you know, if we were unanimous on this decision, I would say let us
vote on it today. In this case, the last vote does matter. So, no matter which scenario
we run it, it will always be a deferral if it ends up a three to three (3:3) tie on
everything. That fourth matters. With that, I am going to suggest that we actually
do defer until we have a full Council and we are able to decide on this. Even if we
took the vote now to receive and it ends up being three to three (3:3), that is a deferral.
You know, if we start adjusting and reject in part, in whole, and that whole
conversation. If it ends up being three to three (3:3) it will be a deferral. That fourth
vote will matter and make it more efficient. There is no sense in doing all of that and
we end up with a three to three (3:3) deferral. We will wait for the whole Council, we
will take the votes, and we will know exactly where we stand. That is my position on
it. Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: I just want to clarify. I mean I think the
deferral is a...because it would be received and eventually this would go into just
becoming a resolution that gets passed. I think what we have heard is that there are
actually some variances as to how we would like to approve it so...
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Yes, it sounds like there is variances and if we
vote on it now for receive, a three to three (3:3) is a deferral anyways. So, I think the
big thing is we need to just defer. Wait for the full Council, take the votes when we
have seven (7) people, the votes can swing one way or the other, and we will know
exactly where we stand on this. Any other comments before we take the deferral? If
COUNCIL MEETING 41 MARCH 27, 2019
not can I get a motion to defer until April 10, 2019 and let us make sure everyone is
here on April 10, 2019.
Councilmember Kagawa moved to defer C 2019-65, seconded by
Councilmember Kuali`i, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1 (Councilmember Brun
was excused).
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Motion carried. Next item.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Chair, on page 3, this is C 2019-66.
C 2019-66 Communication (03/12/2019) from the Prosecuting Attorney
requesting Council approval to receive and expend federal funds for the Domestic
Violence Prosecution Unit in the amount of $22,037, and approval to indemnify the
State of Hawai`i, Department of the Attorney General. This is a recurring grant and
funds will be utilized to continue the program for the term commencing April 1, 2019 to
June 30, 2019: Councilmember Kuali`i moved to approve C 2019-66, seconded by
Councilmember Kagawa.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Any questions from the members on this
item? If not, is there anyone in the audience wishing to testify on this?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
The motion to approve C 2019-66 was then put, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1
(Councilmember Brun was excused).
Council Chair Kaneshiro: The motion is carried. Next item, please.
C 2019-67 Communication (03/15/2019) from the Mayor, transmitting his
Fiscal Year 2019-2020 Budget Message, along with the proposed Operating Budget,
Capital Improvement Projects (CIP) Budget, and Schedule of Charges and Fees:
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to receive C 2019-67 for the record, seconded by
Councilmember Chock.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Any questions from the members? Obviously,
this is going to come up in the budget where we will be able to talk about it. Is there
anyone in the audience wishing to testify on this?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
COUNCIL MEETING 42 MARCH 27, 2019
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Any discussion from the members?
The motion to receive C 2019-66 for the record, was then put, and carried by a
vote of 6:0:1 (Councilmember Brun was excused).
Council Chair Kaneshiro: The motion is carried. Next item please.
CLAIM:
C 2019-68 Communication (03/13/2019) from the County Clerk,
transmitting a claim filed against the County of Kaua`i by Dale Rosenfeld, for
damages to her vehicle, pursuant to Section 23.06, Charter of the County of Kaua`i:
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to refer C 2019-68 to the Office of the County Attorney
for disposition and/or report back to the Council, seconded by Councilmember Chock.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify on this?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Seeing none, is there any discussion from the
members?
The motion to refer C 2019-68 to the Office of the County Attorney for
disposition and/or report back to the Council was then put, and carried by a
vote of 6:0:1 (Councilmember Brun was excused).
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Motion carried. Next item please.
COMMITTEE REPORT:
COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE:
A report (No. CR-COW 2019-07) submitted by the Committee of the Whole,
recommending that the following be Approved on second and final reading:
"Bill No. 2734 — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
ORDINANCE NO. B-2018-842, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO THE
CAPITAL BUDGET OF THE COUNTY OF KAUAI, STATE OF HAWAII,
FOR THE FISCAL YEAR JULY 1, 2018 THROUGH JUNE 30, 2019, BY
REVISING THE AMOUNTS ESTIMATED IN THE DEVELOPMENT FUND
(Islandwide Bus Stops/Shelter Improvements - $84,000),"
COUNCIL MEETING 43 MARCH 27, 2019
Councilmember Kuali`i moved for approval of the report, seconded by
Councilmember Chock.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify on this?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Seeing none, any discussion from the
members?
The motion for approval of the report was then put, and carried by a vote of
6:0:1 (Councilmember Brun was excused).
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Motion carried. Next item please.
RESOLUTIONS:
Resolution No. 2019-23 — RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING THE REAL
PROPERTY TAX RATES FOR THE FISCAL YEAR JULY 1, 2019 TO
JUNE 30, 2020 FOR THE COUNTY OF KAUAI: Councilmember Kuali`i moved that
Resolution No. 2019-23 be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be
scheduled for May 8, 2019 at 5:00 p.m., and referred to Committee of the Whole,
seconded by Councilmember Kagawa.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Any questions? Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: Just a procedural question, I have a lot of
thoughts on this topic. Is it better to wait for later to share them, is that correct?
Council Chair Kaneshiro: In the budget hearings we are going to go over
Real Property Tax Rates with Finance and that would be a good time to ask questions
on it. As far as the budget goes, we have the budget balanced right now so if we start
adjusting Real Property Tax Rates, it is going to affect the budget. If we would like
to do different schedules and really like...put tiers on, it will really affect the budget.
So we have to be careful with what we want to do. Typically in budget meetings, we
have adjusted tax rates before, we have increased tax rates, and we have put money
towards that increase. If we start a lot more, I would suggest we have it in a Council
Meeting or a Committee Meeting where we really get to analyze the ramifications of
these changes. When we get to the very end of our budget, we look at Real Property
Tax Rates and that is the time where we would say, "Do we want to increase, do we
want to decrease?" If we increase it, what are we going to put the money too? If we
decrease it, where or what are we going to cut? It is clean that way. We keep the
COUNCIL MEETING 44 MARCH 27, 2019
budget balanced. If we were going to do anything different, I would say we should do
it in Committee.
Councilmember Cowden: Can I request now that we put that on the
Committee Meeting coming up?
Council Chair Kaneshiro: You can talk to the staff members and talk to
them about in an agenda item on what you want.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay, thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Any other questions? If not roll call vote.
The motion that Resolution No. 2019-23 be ordered to print, that a public
hearing thereon be scheduled for May 8, 2019 at 5:00 p.m., and referred to
Committee of the Whole was then put, and carried by the following vote:
FOR MOTION: Chock, Cowden, Evslin, Kagawa,
Kuali`i, Kaneshiro TOTAL — 6,
AGAINST MOTION: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Brun TOTAL — 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Six (6) ayes, and one (1) excused.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: The motion passes. Next item please.
Resolution No. 2019-27 — RESOLUTION APPOINTING ROSS KAGAWA AS
REPRESENTATIVE AND ARTHUR BRUN AS ALTERNATE TO THE EXECUTIVE
COMMITTEE OF THE HAWAII STATE ASSOCIATION OF COUNTIES:
Councilmember Kuali`i moved for adoption of Resolution No. 2019-27, seconded by
Councilmember Chock.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Anyone questions on this? It came up again.
Obviously, with a change in Council, we needed to put people on the
Hawai`i State Association of Counties (HSAC). At that time, I believe former Council
Chair Mel Rapozo was on HSAC before and now, this is like to just finalize during
our term who is going to be on HSAC. Any questions?
Councilmember Kagawa: I just want to say that...again thank you for
all your support, those that will be supporting me for the HSAC representative. I
have been the alternate for six (6)years and I am thankful that I finally have a chance
to serve as a HSAC member and not the alternate. I will be happy to have
Councilmember Brun as my alternate to train him should he perhaps he would want
to have the opportunity to lead Kauai as the HSAC representative. Right now, we
are trying to change a trend. In the past six (6) years, we have been highly
COUNCIL MEETING 45 MARCH 27, 2019
unsuccessful working with the Legislature, trying to get our
Transient Accommodations Tax (TAT) restored, and trying to get our Lifeguard Tort
Liability put back in as it was sunsetted. We are trying to change that trend and we
have hired a lobbyist. Our previous lobbyist that we had, we did have a lobbyist
which was an expense only lobbyist, Mayor Mike Victorino and he was highly
unsuccessful as our lobbyist at that time. This year, we are hoping that we can get a
better result with our lobbyist although the Lifeguard Tort Liability is not looking
very good at this time. It is very difficult. What you need to realize is that the law
lobbyists on the other end is fighting us hard. As you know, attorneys have a lot of
money to pay for lobbyists as well. So, anyway, that is the difficulty. What the
Lifeguard Tort Liability did was it gave us liability for the beaches. It gave us more
protection than a fireman or policeman has. We felt that we should have that? We
are protecting State beaches. So, anyway, that is our main fight at this time. Again,
I thank you folks for your support. I will not, I have not missed a meeting yet and I
plan not to miss any meetings up there as our HSAC Representative. Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: Thank you so much for what you have done
and my decade to two (2) decades as a citizen of working on issues and as the Chair
of Public Safety and Human Services, some of the issues that are important to me are
both County and State. Sometimes even more State to be able to make the right
County changes. I appreciated when we have voted you in a couple months ago, that
you have committed to me that I can not only participate, but that you would find the
time to hear what is important to me. So that we can work on that because I have a
couple issues that I am very passionate about that I want to make sure does come up
before HSAC. Is that correct? You will help me?
Councilmember Kagawa: Yes.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Again, HSAC is all the Counties involved so
when we do resolutions for that, we have to do it for every single County. We need to
think of the whole.
Councilmember Kagawa: I want to thank Aida. Aida brings a wealth of
experience with HSAC and she continues to serve. She has been with former
Council Chair Rapozo, she has been with former
Councilmember Derek S.K. Kawakami, and so we have a lot of experience with us in
HSAC and the other islands do not have that. They have changing members and
changing staff that serves. So, we have the history and knowledge. Right now, we
may even have the leadership, but we want to make sure before we take the
leadership, that the books are in order. So, we are watching everything before we
take the leadership. We do not want to take a bunch of problems and put it on Aida.
COUNCIL MEETING 46 MARCH 27, 2019
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Anyone else? If not, is there anyone in the
audience wishing to testify on this?
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Seeing none, roll call vote.
The motion for adoption of Resolution No. 2019-27 was then put, and carried
by the following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Chock, Cowden, Evslin, Kagawa,
Kuali`i, Kaneshiro TOTAL — 6,
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Brun TOTAL— 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Six (6) ayes, one (1) excused.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Next item, please.
Resolution No. 2019-28 — RESOLUTION NOMINATING KIPUKAI KUALI`I
AS A DIRECTOR ON THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF COUNTIES BOARD,
AND NOMINATING MASON K. CHOCK AS A DIRECTOR ON THE WESTERN
INTERSTATE REGION BOARD: Councilmember Kagawa moved for adoption of
Resolution No. 2019-28, seconded by Councilmember Evslin.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Any questions on this? Councilmember
Evslin.
Councilmember Evslin: Can you just walk through what these two (2)
boards do?
Council Chair Kaneshiro: NACo is National Association of Counties. All
the Counties that are a part of NACo is across the entire United States. I do not know
how many members there are? Thousands of members are on it. As far as board
members go, Hawaii being a part of NACo gets a certain amount of board members.
We get two (2) board members. Then they also have a
Western Interstate Regional (WIR) Board, which we have members on that, too. So,
all of Hawaii, between all of the Counties, we have two (2) NACo board members and
two (2) WIR board members. Kaua`i has two (2) right now. Previously, I was the
NACo board member and prior to myself, it was Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Chock has a WIR Board and we are asking for him to be the
representative again. Councilmember Ikaika Anderson on O`ahu is a
NACo board member, Hawaii County Councilmember Valerie T. Poindexter I believe
is the WIR board member, and Tim Richards is the appointed. Every president and
COUNCIL MEETING 47 MARCH 27, 2019
every year for NACo, a president can pick ten (10) board members out of any person
in NACo. We have been fortunate enough, a small State, Hawai`i who has a very
small voting base at NACo, we have been able to get an appointed position every year.
So we have an appointed position with Tim from the president. The president
appoints ten (10) people, they can appoint anyone out of any State and we have
always been able to get a position. Councilmember Riki Hokama from Maui is
actually a past president and he is still going to be a part of NACo as a past president.
Councilmember Chock: WIR?
Council Chair Kaneshiro: So I think he is going to give his WIR to Big
Island? Yes. So you know, as far as NACo goes I think it is a good organization. You
get a good feeling, we get to get up to the Legislature, which recently happened where
Councilmember Chock went up there. We meet with our Legislative Representatives
from Hawai`i, but at the Legislature, NACo puts on a huge conference with all the
Counties to address major issues. A lot of times it has to do with infrastructure. I
know in the mainland opioids is a huge issue. It is a good time and opportunity for
us to get to know people from different Counties. Housing is also a big issue in all
the Counties, too; so you are able to kind of bounce ideas off and it is a good experience
to hear what other people have to say. Again, I cannot stress enough how important
it is for us to continue to remain strong at NACo. Again, we are a small State, yet we
get an appointment every year and that is because we show up and are active
members. I think our votes is less than twenty (20) for our State and there is States
like California who have over three hundred (300) votes for a president. For us to get
these appointments is very important for us to keep those relationships and to
continue to get that I think is important. I can tell you in this last presidential
election for NACo, the president won by even less than what our votes were. Luckily
Hawai`i kept our votes together, we voted for the same president every time and he
ended up winning by less than whatever votes we have had, I think it was by
seven (7) or eight (8) votes, yes, Councilmember Chock? It was something like that.
The president understands and sees that Hawai`i really stood up for me, so hopefully
when that president becomes in place, he will remember Hawai`i and give us an
appointed position again. Again, it is good to see what is happening in other Counties
and it is just a great opportunity for members. Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: Thank you so much for that clarification and
Councilmember Evslin for the important question. I am scheduled to be going to WIR
and NACo. All of them are very important to me because most of the challenges that
we have here are shared and pushed all the way up in terms of who has the authority
over helping us solve these challenges. I look forward to working with both
Councilmembers Mason Chock and KipuKai Kuali`i. To be heard on this, I want to
be one (1) of those very active members. I feel that it is important for Hawai`i and
even Kaua`i to have a seat at the table because we are really rather unique to the
fifty (50) United States. So the issues of the Midwest, the Central South, or any of
COUNCIL MEETING 48 MARCH 27, 2019
the border coastal States, it is very different than our island community. So I want
to thank all my predecessors who kept us up there on the pecking order and I will be
very committed to making sure that I keep that moving forward.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Yes, I cannot stress enough how well we are
represented there. Riki Hokama who is from one of the smallest States in NACo was
able to become president there, so you are able to see what kind of influence Hawai`i
has at NACo. Yes, it is a great opportunity and for Hawai`i, they actually do look at
us as leaders. We deal with it all. We were dealing with Transient Vacation
Rentals (TVRs) for a long time, we were dealing with homelessness, and we deal with
infrastructure issues. We are on different islands, how does the State spread money,
how does the County fight for their fair share of federal money? So, they do look at
us a lot and it is important that we stay up there and that we stay respected up there
also. Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: As our female Councilmember, I want to just
acknowledge Patsy Mink in Title IX, Hawai`i has made a very big difference. I know
that is Legislative, but I know that we need to be there so thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Any other comments or questions?
Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Just briefly, I would like to say I appreciate
your support and your vote of confidence. I will go back there and do what I have
done before in making sure I represent you well. To bring you along with me as much
as possible because participation is really important in building relationships. You
cannot build relationships unless you are physically there. I did miss the Legislative
Conference several weeks ago, family emergency, my mom was in the Intensive Care
Unit (ICU), otherwise I would have been there. I do plan to be at the next several
meetings. I am excited that Councilmember Cowden is coming along in July, but you
should all consider coming on July 12, 2019, I think it is, which the annual conference
is. It is huge. Everything you could imagine is there as far as resources for running
a County, so I often bring back a lot of different resources that I even pass onto the
Administration. I look forward to serving in that capacity.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Yes, the annual conference is where they are
going to vote on the next president. It is a big conference. I can tell that you NACo
was in touch with our Administration when we had our flooding on the North Shore.
They had Counties in Louisiana, Florida, that have all had those disasters; they have
had to work with Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). So I know our
County had questions on you know...what we do. I know FEMA was taking money
away from some of them for not following proper protocol. So, it was a learning
experience for us and luckily we had NACo there to kind of help us along the way
also. So, it is a good resource. They are very opened to us you know, asking for help
COUNCIL MEETING 49 MARCH 27, 2019
and resources. Again, for me, I was on Council for two (2) years and I went up to all
of the events. I was not a board member. I got to learn and interact with a lot of
people. It is a good place to be. With that, is there anyone in the audience wishing
to testify?
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Seeing none, roll call vote.
The motion for adoption of Resolution No. 2019-28 was then put, and carried
by the following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Chock, Cowden, Evslin, Kagawa,
Kuali`i, Kaneshiro TOTAL — 6,
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Brun TOTAL— 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Six (6) ayes, one (1) excused.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Next item, please.
BILLS FOR FIRST READING:
Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2738) — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE RELATING
TO THE OPERATING BUDGET AND FINANCING THEREOF FOR FISCAL YEAR
JULY 1, 2019 TO JUNE 30, 2020 (Fiscal Year 2019-2020 Operating Budget).
Councilmember Kuali`i moved for passage on Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2738) on first
reading, that it be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be scheduled for
May 8, 2019 at 5:00 p.m., and it be referred to the Committee of the Whole, seconded
by Councilmember Chock.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify wishing to testify on this?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Any questions from the members? If not, roll
call vote.
The motion for passage of Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2738) on first reading, that
it be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be scheduled for
COUNCIL MEETING 50 MARCH 27, 2019
May 8, 2019 at 5:00 p.m., and referred to the Committee of the Whole was then
put, and carried by the following vote:
FOR PASSAGE: Chock, Cowden, Evslin, Kagawa,
Kuali`i, Kaneshiro TOTAL— 6,
AGAINST PASSAGE: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Brun TOTAL— 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Six (6) ayes.
Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2739) — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE RELATING
TO CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS AND FINANCING THEREOF FOR THE FISCAL
YEAR JULY 1, 2019 TO JUNE 30, 2020 (Fiscal Year 2019-2020 CIP Budget)
Councilmember Kuali`i moved for passage on Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2739) on first
reading, that it be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be scheduled for
May 8, 2019 at 5:00 p.m., and it be referred to the Committee of the Whole, seconded
by Councilmember Chock.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify on this?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Let me just make a comment, this is all
regarding our budget. We start budget tomorrow. So anyone that wants to testify on
the budget is able to come. We will take public testimony first thing in the morning.
What time do we start budget meetings?
Councilmember Kuali`i: 9:00 a.m.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: 9:00 a.m. We start budget meetings at
9:00 a.m. We will take public testimony at 9:00 a.m. That is when the public will
have the opportunity to speak. If they are not there at 9:00 a.m., we are going to
move on with the meeting and we will not allow any public testimony after that. So
if you would like to testify, come in at 9:00 a.m. We will have different budget
hearings every single day, and so if there is one that you are interested in...again,
you can testify, you can send E-mails, you can call members, there is a lot of ways to
get information out. That is the opportunity for the public to speak. Councilmember
Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: I just have a question. So, when we look at a
typical budget day, say we are working with Public Works, people testify at the
COUNCIL MEETING 51 MARCH 27, 2019
beginning of that very same day so...so much of the discussion actually happens in
the day so like...they are going to be learning after they make their testimony. So
maybe that their testimony would be much more meaningful once they have heard
what we have had to say.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Yes, I think historically we have done it in the
beginning. I think it makes the meeting move a lot sooner because then the questions
is when do we let them testify at the very end of the day are they going to want to
stay? There has been meetings where we have been here past 5:00 p.m. on budget
meetings and they then do not get the opportunity to even speak. If we do it at the
beginning, they will always have an opportunity to speak on that budget item. We
have all these different departments throughout the day, I cannot tell you when we
are going to finish or when they will be able to speak once we start. I think that is
the rationale of having it in the beginning, they will always have the opportunity to
speak about the budget in the beginning of the meeting.
Councilmember Cowden: Thank you, Chair.
Council Chair Kaneshiro Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: I just wanted to clarify as well, my
understanding also was because the budget hearings include all of the budget, for
instance if they do participate in the previous day, the next day if they wanted to not
only submit testimony by E-mail that afternoon or even come the next morning, they
would be able to speak on the budget items. As in general or as a whole.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Any other questions? If not, roll call vote.
The motion for passage of Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2739) on first reading, that
it be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be scheduled for
May 8, 2019 at 5:00 p.m., and referred to the Committee of the Whole was then
put, and carried by the following vote:
FOR PASSAGE: Chock, Cowden, Evslin, Kagawa,
Kuali`i, Kaneshiro TOTAL— 6,
AGAINST PASSAGE: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Brun TOTAL— 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL—0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Six (6) ayes.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Next item, please.
COUNCIL MEETING 52 MARCH 27, 2019
BILLS FOR SECOND READING:
Bill No. 2734 — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING ORDINANCE
NO. B-2018-842, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO THE CAPITAL BUDGET OF THE
COUNTY OF KAUAI, STATE OF HAWAII, FOR THE FISCAL YEAR JULY 1, 2018
THROUGH JUNE 30, 2019, BY REVISING THE AMOUNTS ESTIMATED IN THE
DEVELOPMENT FUND (Islandwide Bus Stops/Shelter Improvements - $84,000):
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to approve Bill No. 2734, on second and final reading,
and that it be transmitted to the Mayor for his approval, seconded by Councilmember
Cowden.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Any questions from Councilmembers? We
have seen this a few times. Is there anyone in the audience wishing to testify on this?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follow:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Seeing none, roll call vote.
The motion to approve Bill No. 2734, on second and final reading, and that it
be transmitted to the Mayor for his approval was then put, and carried by the
following vote:
FOR APPROVAL: Chock, Cowden, Evslin, Kagawa,
Kuali`i, Kaneshiro TOTAL—6,
AGAINST APPROVAL: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Brun TOTAL— 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Six (6) ayes.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Next item, Executive Session.
EXECUTIVE SESSION:
ES-984 Pursuant to Hawai`i Revised Statutes (HRS) Sections 92-4 and
92-5(a)(2), (4), and (8), the purpose of this Executive Session is to consider matters
that require confidentiality under state law, to wit, the hiring of a County Auditor,
including interviewing any candidates, and terms and conditions of employment. The
further purpose of this Executive Session is to meet with the Council's legal counsel
on questions and issues relating to the Council's powers, duties, privileges and
immunities and/or liabilities, claims and/or potential claims, as such powers, duties,
privileges and immunities, and/or liabilities, claims and or potential claims relate to
the foregoing item, and to take such action as the Council deems appropriate.
COUNCIL MEETING 53 MARCH 27, 2019
ES-985 Pursuant to Hawai`i Revised Statutes (HRS) Sections 92-4 and
92-5(a)(3), and Kaua`i County Charter Section 3.07(E), the Office of the County
Attorney requests an Executive Session with the Council to discuss the acquisition of
several large parcels of land for community-based needs, including affordable
housing, park facilities, and the expansion of public utilities. This briefing and
consultation involves consideration of the powers, duties, privileges, immunities,
and/or liabilities of the Council and the County as they relate to this agenda item.
ES-986 Pursuant to Hawai`i Revised Statutes (HRS) Sections 92-4 and
92-5(a)(4), and Kaua`i County Charter Section 3.07(E), the Office of the County
Attorney requests an Executive Session with the Council to provide the Council with
a briefing on the Habitat Conservation Plan for the County of Kaua`i. This briefing
and consultation involves the consideration of the powers, duties, privileges,
immunities, and/or liabilities of the Council and the County as they relate to this
agenda item.
ES-987 Pursuant to Hawai`i Revised Statutes (HRS) Sections 92-4 and
92-5(a)(2) and (4), the purpose of this Executive Session is to consult with the
Council's legal counsel concerning the exercise of its authority to audit under Charter
Section 3.12. This briefing and consultation involves consideration of the powers,
duties, privileges, immunities, and/or liabilities of the Council and the County as they
relate to this agenda item.
Councilmember Chock moved to convene in Executive Session for ES-984,
ES-985, ES-986, and ES-987, seconded by Councilmember Kagawa.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify on this?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Seeing none. Any comments from the
members? Roll call vote to go into Executive Session.
The motion to convene in Executive Session for ES-984, ES-985, ES-986, and
ES-987 was then put, and carried by the following vote:
FOR EXECUTIVE SESSION: Chock, Cowden, Evslin,
Kagawa, Kuali`i, Kaneshiro TOTAL — 6,
AGAINST EXECUTIVE SESSION: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Brun TOTAL — 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: With that, we will go into Executive Session.
We will need to be back at 1:30 p.m. for public hearing. So, 1:30 p.m. Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING 54 MARCH 27, 2019
ADJOURNMENT.
There being no further business, the Council Meeting adjourned at 11:33 a.m.
Respectfully submitted,
•4J
JA! K. FOUNTAIN-TANIGAWA
County Clerk
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