HomeMy WebLinkAbout07/31/2019 Council minutes COUNCIL MEETING
July 31, 2019
The Council Meeting of the Council of the County of Kaua`i was called to order
by Council Chair Arryl Kaneshiro at the Council Chambers, 4396 Rice Street,
Suite 201, Lihu`e, Kaua`i, on Wednesday, July 31, 2019 at 8:53 a.m., after which the
following Members answered the call of the roll:
Honorable Mason K. Chock
Honorable Felicia Cowden
Honorable Luke A. Evslin
Honorable Ross Kagawa
Honorable KipuKai Kuali`i
Honorable Arryl Kaneshiro
Excused: Honorable Arthur Brun
APPROVAL OF AGENDA.
Councilmember Kuali`i moved for approval of the agenda, as circulated,
seconded by Councilmember Cowden.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify on the agenda?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Seeing none, is there any discussion from the
members?
The motion for approval of the agenda, as circulated, was then put, and carried
by a vote of 6:0:1 (Councilmember Brun was excused).
Council Chair Kaneshiro: The motion is carried. Next item, please.
CONSENT CALENDAR:
C 2019-170 Communication (06/21/2019) from the Director of Finance,
transmitting for Council information, the Period 9 Financial Reports — Statement of
Revenues, Statement of Expenditures and Encumbrances, Revenue Report, and
Detailed Budget Report as of March 31, 2019, pursuant to Section 21 of
Ordinance No. B-2018-841, relating to the Operating Budget of the County of Kaua`i
for Fiscal Year 2018-2019.
COUNCIL MEETING 2 JULY 31, 2019
C 2019-171 Communication (07/08/2019) from the Deputy County Engineer,
transmitting for Council consideration, a Resolution Establishing A New Maximum
Speed Limit Of Twenty Miles Per Hour And Placement Of Speed Humps Along
Kaumakani Road, Waimea District, County of Kaua`i.
C 2019-172 Communication (07/15/2019) from the Director of Finance,
transmitting for Council information, the Period 10 Financial Reports — Statement of
Revenues, Statement of Expenditures and Encumbrances, Revenue Report, and
Detailed Budget Report as of April 30, 2019, pursuant to Section 21 of Ordinance
No. B-2018-841, relating to the Operating Budget of the County of Kaua`i for Fiscal
Year 2018-2019.
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to receive C 2019-170, C 2019-171, and
C 2019-172 for the record, seconded by Councilmember Chock.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify on the Consent Calendar?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Seeing none, are there any questions from the
members on any of these items?
The motion to receive C 2019-170, C 2019-171, and C 2019-172 for the record
was then put, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1 (Councilmember Brun was excused).
JADE K. FOUNTAIN-TANIGAWA, County Clerk: On page 2.
COMMUNICATIONS:
C 2019-173 Communication (07/02/2019) from the Executive on Aging,
requesting Council approval to receive and expend a total of $774,836.00 in State
General Funds for Fiscal Year 2020, and to indemnify the State Executive Office on
Aging; funds will be used as follows:
• Kupuna Care: provision of services for older adults, ages 60 and older
to address long-term services and support needs;
• Elder Abuse: provision of services to support vulnerable older adults;
• Kupuna Caregiver: provision of services to support eligible, working
caregivers; and
• Aging and Disability Resource Center (ADRC): to support the County
ADRC operational model.
COUNCIL MEETING 3 JULY 31, 2019
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to approve C 2019-173, seconded by
Councilmember Chock.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: I will suspend the rules, we have a question
from Councilmember Cowden.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Councilmember Cowden: I have noticed the date saying, "07-02-2018"is
it meant to be 2018 or is it supposed to be 2019?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: It should be 2019.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: It should be 2019.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay, can we correct that?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The communication should read:
Communication 07-02-2019.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Yes. Do we have any questions from the
members for the Administration regarding this item? If not, is there anyone in the
audience wishing to testify on this item?
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Seeing none. Is there any discussion from the
members? Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: I would like to appreciate all of the effort that
goes into making sure we continue to get these grants and the State funds. I am just
acknowledging that and the hard work that the Executive on Aging does.
(Councilmember Chock was noted as not present.)
Council Chair Kaneshiro: With that, the motion on the floor is to
approve.
The motion to approve C 2019-173 was then put, and carried by a vote of 6*:0:1
(*Pursuant to Rule No. 5(b) of the Rules of the Council of the County of Kauai,
Councilmember Chock was noted as silent (not present), but shall be recorded
as an affirmative for the motion; Councilmember Brun was excused.)
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Motion carried, next item.
COUNCIL MEETING 4 JULY 31, 2019
C 2019-174 Communication (07/09/2019) from the Executive on Aging,
requesting Council approval to receive and expend an increase of $7,500.00 in the
Fiscal Year 2019 baseline grant funding awarded by the Corporation for National and
Community Service to the County of Kaua`i, Agency on Elderly Affairs, Kaua`i
Retired and Senior Volunteer Program (RSVP), to support efforts to recruit, retain,
and place RSVP volunteers: Councilmember Kuali`i moved to approve C 2019-174,
seconded by Councilmember Kagawa.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Are there any questions for the
Administration on this item? I have a quick question.
(Councilmember Chock was noted as present.)
Council Chair Kaneshiro: It is easy. Usually we see funds that are
decreasing, this year, the seven thousand five hundred dollars ($7,500) is an increase.
Are we anticipating to see the seven thousand five hundred dollars ($7,500) every
year or is it only for this year?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
DONNA OLIVAS-KAOHI, RSVP Program Coordinator: As far as I know,
they said that going forward, this was an addition to the current funds that we are
receiving.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Will we receive seven thousand five hundred
dollars ($7,500) year-after-year?
Ms. Olivas-Kaohi: Yes, that is correct.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Okay, thank you.
Ms. Olivas-Kaohi: Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Thank you. Is there anyone in the audience
wishing to testify on this item?
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Seeing none. Is there any discussion from the
members?
The motion to approve C 2019-174 was then put, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1
(Councilmember Brun was excused).
COUNCIL MEETING 5 JULY 31, 2019
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Next item.
C 2019-175 Communication (07/11/2019) from the Prosecuting Attorney,
requesting Council approval to apply for, receive, and expend Federal funds, in the
amount of $149,936.00, from the Fiscal Year (FY) 2018 Edward J. Byrne Memorial
Justice Assistance Grant (JAG) — Specialty Juvenile Sex Assault Prosecuting Unit,
and approval to indemnify the State of Hawai`i, Department of the Attorney General,
for the Specialty Juvenile Sex Assault Prosecution Unit, for the period of
January 1, 2020 through December 1, 2020 (subject to change due to the availability
of funds), to cover the cost of a 1.0 Full-Time Equivalent (FTE) Deputy Prosecuting
Attorney, fringe benefits, computer, software, desk, and chair: Councilmember Kuali`i
moved to approve C 2019-175, seconded by Councilmember Chock.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Council Chair Kaneshiro, I wanted to note for
the record, should they receive the grant, the Office of the Prosecuting Attorney has
provided the indemnification language, and it has been circulated in a memorandum
dated July 30th.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: I do not see the Office of the Prosecuting
Attorney here. Do we have any questions?
Councilmember Cowden: I have a simple question.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Are they planning to be here? Let us go to the
next item.
Councilmember Cowden: I would have the same question for the next
item, which is for the same people.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: We will skip the next two (2) items and go to
C 2019-177.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: On page 3.
There being no objections, C 2019-177 was taken out of order.
C 2019-177 Communication (07/15/2019) from Ka`aina S. Hull, Clerk of the
Planning Commission, transmitting the Planning Commission's recommendation to
amend Chapter 10, Article 6, Kaua`i County Code 1987, as amended, Relating to the
South Kauai Community Plan: Councilmember Kuali`i moved to receive C 2019-177
for the record, seconded by Councilmember Chock.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify on this?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
COUNCIL MEETING 6 JULY 31, 2019
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Seeing none. Is there any discussion from the
members? This will come up again later on the agenda.
The motion to receive C 2019-177 for the record was then put, and carried by
a vote of 6:0:1 (Councilmember Brun was excused).
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Next item.
C 2019-178 Communication (07/19/2019) from the Deputy Fire Chief,
requesting Council approval, to accept a donation from the Kaua`i Lifeguard
Association (KLA), of four (4) Motorola APX6000 Radios, valued at $19,999.91, which
will help to increase optimal radio communication for emergency response:
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to approve C 2019-178 with thank-you letter to follow,
seconded by Councilmember Chock.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Are there any questions from the members? Is
there anyone in the audience wishing to testify on this item?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Seeing none. Is there any discussion from the
members? Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: Again, I would like to express my gratitude.
The Kaua`i Lifeguard Association has really done a lot to step up and keep our water
safety team in strong and healthy positions. Thank you.
The motion to approve C 2019-178 with thank-you letter to follow was then put,
and carried by a vote of 6:0:1 (Councilmember Brun was excused).
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Motion carried. Next item.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Next item is a claim.
CLAIM:
C 2019-179 Communication (07/11/2019) from the County Clerk,
transmitting a claim filed against the County of Kaua`i by Marshal Aviguetero, for
damage to his vehicle, pursuant to Section 23.06, Charter of the County of Kauai:
Councilmember Kuali`i moved to refer C 2019-179 to the Office of the County
Attorney for disposition and/or report back to the Council, seconded by
Councilmember Chock.
COUNCIL MEETING 7 JULY 31, 2019
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify on this item?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Seeing none. Is there any discussion from the
members?
The motion to refer C 2019-179 to the Office of the County Attorney for
disposition and/or report back to the Council was then put, and carried by a
vote of 6:0:1 (Councilmember Brun was excused).
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Motion carried, next item.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Next item is your Committee Reports.
COMMITTEE REPORTS:
PUBLIC WORKS & VETERANS SERVICES COMMITTEE:
A report (No. CR-PWVS 2019-05) submitted by the Public Works & Veterans
Committee, recommending that the following be Received for the Record:
"PWVS 2019-03 — Communication (07/09/2019) from Committee Chair
Kagawa, requesting the presence of the Deputy County Engineer, to provide a
briefing on potential efforts that can be undertaken to prevent the need for costly
debris removal from rivers and other waterways following inclement weather,"
Councilmember Kuali`i moved for approval of the report, seconded by
Councilmember Chock.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify on the Committee Report?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Seeing none, is there any discussion from the
members?
The motion for approval of the report was then put, and carried by a vote
of 6:0:1 (Councilmember Brun was excused).
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Motion carried, next item.
COUNCIL MEETING 8 JULY 31, 2019
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The next item is from your Planning
Committee.
PLANNING COMMITTEE:
A report (No. CR-PL 2019-08) submitted by the Planning Committee,
recommending that the following be Referred to the July 31, 2019 Council Meeting:
"Bill No. 2693 — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
SUBSECTION 8-15.1(d), KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED,
RELATING TO ADDITIONAL DWELLING UNIT ON OTHER THAN
RESIDENTIALLY ZONED LOTS,"
Councilmember Chock moved for approval of the report, seconded by
Councilmember Kuali`i.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify on the Planning Committee Report?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Seeing none, is there any discussion from the
members?
The motion for approval of the report was then put, and carried by a vote
of 6:0:1 (Councilmember Brun was excused).
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Motion carried, next item.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Chair, on page 4, Resolutions.
RESOLUTIONS:
Resolution No. 2019-46 — RESOLUTION CONFIRMING MAYORAL
APPOINTMENT TO THE PUBLIC ACCESS, OPEN SPACE, NATURAL
RESOURCES PRESERVATION FUND COMMISSION (Taryn A. M. Dizon —
Waimea / Kekaha): Councilmember Kuali`i moved for adoption of
Resolution No. 2019-46, seconded by Councilmember Cowden.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Are there any questions from the members?
If not, is there anyone in the audience wishing to testify on this Resolution?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
COUNCIL MEETING 9 JULY 31, 2019
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there any final discussion from the
members? The motion on the floor is to approve, roll call vote.
The motion for adoption of Resolution No. 2019-46 was then put, and carried
by the following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Chock, Cowden, Evslin, Kagawa,
Kuali`i, Kaneshiro TOTAL— 6,
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Brun TOTAL— 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: 6 ayes.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Motion passes. Let us go back to C 2019-175.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Chair, on page 2. C 2019-175.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: The motion on the floor is to approve. I will
suspend the rules, we have questions.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
JAMIE OLIVAS, Grant Coordinator: Hi, Jamie Olivas, Office of the
Prosecuting Attorney.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Jaime, this is for the one hundred forty-nine
thousand dollars ($149,000) item. Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: For this Special Juvenile Sex Assault
Prosecuting Unit, is this a brand new position or is this funding an existing position?
Ms. Olivas: This is a brand new position.
Councilmember Cowden: A brand new position. How many positions...
is this our first one for juvenile sex assault?
Ms. Olivas: Yes.
Councilmember Cowden: Prior to this, it has been merged in with
sexual assault.
Ms. Olivas: Yes.
Councilmember Cowden: What kind of statistics are we having on the
juvenile challenges? Roughly, about how many cases a year are we looking at?
Ms. Olivas: In the application that we are going to be
submitting, in 2015, there were forty (40) charged sex assault cases, eight (8) were
COUNCIL MEETING 10 JULY 31, 2019
juvenile sex assault cases. In 2016, there were fifty-one (51) charged sex assault
cases, with thirty-eight (38)juvenile sex assault cases.
Councilmember Cowden: How many juvenile?
Ms. Olivas: We had fifty-one (51) sex assault cases and
thirty-eight (38) were juvenile.
Councilmember Cowden: Thirty-eight (38) were juvenile. Okay.
Ms. Olivas: In 2017, there were forty-eight (48) sex
assault cases, twenty-four (24) were juvenile sex assault cases, and in 2018, there
were fifty-four (54) sex assault cases, and twelve (12) were juvenile sex assault cases.
Councilmember Cowden: I am sorry to hear that. We have an increased
focus on child sex trafficking. Will this prosecuting unit be focused on that as well?
Ms. Olivas: Yes.
Councilmember Cowden: Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Evslin.
Councilmember Evslin: Thank you folks for coming and for pursuing
this grant. It seems vitally important. I had a question for both grant applications,
the opioid grant and for this, you referenced a seventy-five percent (75%) conviction
rate as one (1) of the goals. What is your current conviction rate now and what
happens if you do not reach the seventy-five percent (75%)?
Ms. Olivas: I cannot tell you right off the bat what the
conviction rate is, I would have to be able to separate it. I would be able to come back
and get you that information. We strive to have a seventy-five percent (75%)
conviction rate. If we do not, we try to figure out what is going on. We try to see if it
is the victims...or what exactly is going on. There is usually a reason why we are not
able to achieve that conviction rate. We write about that and work towards that
conviction rate.
Councilmember Evslin: Is it a requirement of the grant?
Ms. Olivas: No.
Councilmember Evslin: Great, thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you for being here and for all of you
work on this. I agree that it will be great to have someone to put their attention on
the juvenile side. Thank you. I was wondering...if the attorney has the time to help
COUNCIL MEETING 11 JULY 31, 2019
in other areas, does the grant restrict Justin Kollar on the juvenile side? We are a
small island, at times, there may be overload on...
Ms. Olivas: On other cases.
Councilmember Kagawa: Are we able to be flexible?
Ms. Olivas: Being that the grant is written for the position
to be a full-time position working on juvenile sex assaults and/or with the opioid, it
would restrict us from having that attorney work on other cases.
Councilmember Kagawa: So it is restricted?
Ms. Olivas: Right. The only way to get around that would
be to rework the budget to show where the other funding would come from. Being
that it is a full-time position on these types of cases, they would be restricted to
working on only the grant cases.
Councilmember Kagawa: Are there any other questions from the
members? If not, thank you. Is there anyone in the audience wishing to testify on
this item?
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Seeing none. Is there any final discussion
from the members? Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: I would like to say that when we have a
seventy-five percent (75%) conviction rate as a goal, I appreciate that it is not a
ninety-five percent (95%) conviction rate. Sometimes when we have these
ninety-nine percent (99%) conviction rates...which means if you are accused, you are
guilty; right? Sometimes we have these plea bargainings that forces people into a
difficult position. We have to hold open, that sometimes people are not guilty. I want
to say that a target of seventy-five percent (75%), I appreciate the openness that
everyone should be presumed innocent, but we would like to also stop this problem.
I wanted to add that. Sometimes our conviction rates makes me nervous when it is
so high, sometimes people are not guilty of the crime they might be accused of. Thank
you, it is just a thought.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone else?
The motion to approve C 2019-175 was then put, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1
(Councilmember Brun was excused).
COUNCIL MEETING 12 JULY 31, 2019
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Motion carried, next item.
C 2019-176 Communication (07/11/2019) from the Prosecuting Attorney,
requesting Council approval to apply for, receive, and expend Federal funds, in the
amount of $154,161.00, from the Fiscal Year (FY) 2018 Edward J. Byrne Memorial
Justice Assistance Grant (JAG)—Opioid and Related Narcotic Prosecuting Unit, and
approval to indemnify the State of Hawai`i, Department of the Attorney General, for
the Opioid and Related Narcotic Prosecution Unit, for the period of January 1, 2020
through December 1, 2020 (subject to change due to the availability of funds), to cover
the cost of a 1.0 Full-Time Equivalent (FTE) Deputy Prosecuting Attorney, fringe
benefits, training, computer, software, desk, and chair: Councilmember Kuali`i moved
to approve C 2019-176, seconded by Councilmember Cowden.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: I will suspend the rules. Councilmember
Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: I have similar questions. Is this a new
position?
Ms. Olivas: Yes.
Councilmember Cowden: This money is also coming through the State
and not out of the existing County budget?
Ms. Olivas: Yes.
Councilmember Cowden: How many attorneys do we currently have
that are focused on opioid and related narcotics?
Ms. Olivas: We only have one (1) attorney who is focused
on drug cases and CCP cases.
Councilmember Cowden: What does CCP stand for?
Ms. Olivas: Career Criminal Prosecution.
Councilmember Cowden: Career Criminal Prosecution. When I hear
Career Criminal Prosecution, that would infer that these are dealers more than
users?
Ms. Olivas: It is a variety of cases, but it is someone who
has repeatedly been in the system.
Councilmember Cowden: For the Opioid and Related Narcotic
Prosecution Unit, is that working primarily with Drug Court or is that...
Ms. Olivas: It would be a number of different cases, but it
is focused completely on opioids and narcotics.
COUNCIL MEETING 13 JULY 31, 2019
Councilmember Cowden: Are you able to give me an idea of what our
caseload is? About how many cases we are seeing per year?
Ms. Olivas: We have been seeing an increase as far as
opioids. For drug cases from 2015, we had one hundred four (104), twenty-five (25)
cases were with opioids or heroin. In 2016, we had one hundred thirty-five (135) drug
cases, twenty-five (25) cases were with opioids or heroin. In 2017, we had one
hundred twenty-seven (127), twenty-nine (29) cases involved opioids. In 2018, we
had one hundred thirty-seven (137) drug cases, and thirty-four (34) of those cases
were with opioids.
Councilmember Cowden: It sounds like close to twenty percent (20%) of
our cases are opioids. Next year and the year after, will this money still be coming
from the State or does it shift?
Ms. Olivas: No. The JAG grants are good for a funding
total of four (4)years. If receive the grant, we would apply for the next three (3)years.
For both grants, it would be funding four (4) years.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Are there any other questions from the
members? Councilmember Evslin.
Councilmember Evslin: I am sorry, on that last point...four (4) years
of funding, you would reapply every year?
Ms. Olivas: Yes.
Councilmember Evslin: After the fourth year, you are not eligible for
it again.
Ms. Olivas: Yes, for this specific grant.
Councilmember Evslin: In the past, when that happens, does the
prosecuting attorney who is hired for that position end up getting...
Ms. Olivas: We move that attorney to a County position.
Councilmember Evslin: Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Are you folks fully staffed? I am sorry, I think
Councilmember Cowden already asked that question.
Ms. Olivas: Yes. We currently have sixteen point
five (16.5) attorneys, but we do have some attorneys who are on leave.
COUNCIL MEETING 14 JULY 31, 2019
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Would it be your intention to move an existing
attorney into some of these positions or are you planning on hiring a new attorney for
this position?
Ms. Olivas: I am not certain.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Okay. You would be able to use this funding
for a current and existing...
Ms. Olivas: We would actually be able to open up the
position and it would be an entirely new position. Should someone on staff be
interested in taking any of these positions, they would be able to move in, and that
would free up money from the County position. Yes, we would be able to do that.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Okay. Are there any other questions from the
members? If not, thank you. Is there anyone in the audience wishing to testify on
this item?
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Seeing none. Is there any final discussion
from the members?
The motion to approve C 2019-176 was then put, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1
(Councilmember Brun was excused).
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Motion carried.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The indemnification language for C 2019-175
also applies for C 2019-176.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Correct. Next item is Resolution No. 2019-48
on page 4.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: On page 4.
Resolution No. 2019-48 — RESOLUTION ESTABLISHING A NEW
MAXIMUM SPEED LIMIT OF TWENTY MILES PER HOUR AND PLACEMENT
OF SPEED HUMPS ALONG KAUMAKANI ROAD, WAIMEA DISTRICT, COUNTY
OF KAUAI: Councilmember Chock moved for adoption of Resolution No. 2019-48,
seconded by Councilmember Kuali`i.
COUNCIL MEETING 15 JULY 31, 2019
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Are there any questions on this?
Councilmember Kagawa. I also believe they have a map if you need them to go over
it.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
LYLE TABATA, Deputy County Engineer: Good morning Council Chair and
Councilmembers, Lyle Tabata, Deputy County Engineer.
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you Lyle, for being here. For the old
Kaumakani School, do they still have the preschool?
Mr. Tabata: Yes. That is the Kamehameha Schools
Preschool. There is a picture up there which shows the project site where the
preschool is located adjacent to the neighborhood center. We will be placing speed
humps and lowering the speed limit to twenty (20) miles per hour.
Councilmember Kagawa: Were the speed humps reviewed by the
community?
Mr. Tabata: They have requested for the speed humps.
Councilmember Kagawa: They requested for it?
Mr. Tabata: Yes. There is no real residence in that area,
it is just a preschool. It was on behalf of their request, we spoke to the
Parks & Recreation Department, and we got everyone to agree.
Councilmember Kagawa: We typically try to stay away from putting in
speed humps.
Mr. Tabata: Exactly, yes.
Councilmember Kagawa: It is requested in a lot of areas. The best way
to solve this problem is to have the police enforce the speed limit. You are not going
to cure the problem by placing speed humps wherever there is people speeding.
Mr. Tabata: Right. On the map is the locations.
Councilmember Kagawa: It will be a few speed humps there?
Mr. Tabata: Right.
Councilmember Kagawa Is that like...
COUNCIL MEETING 16 JULY 31, 2019
Mr. Tabata: It will be right in front of the school and the
recreation center.
Councilmember Kagawa: Will it be the narrow high speed bumps or
long...
Mr. Tabata: Yes, it is the same height but narrow. It is an
abrupt speed hump.
Councilmember Kagawa: Okay, it will alert the driver right away?
Mr. Tabata: Yes, it is not a table or cushion.
Councilmember Kagawa: Sounds good. I do not think people should be
driving more than twenty (20) miles per hour. There is a neighborhood center...you
are not going to go anywhere, you are not saving time, and it is not a shortcut road.
It is just a road to go to the preschool or the neighborhood center. I think that is a
great idea. For the speed humps, I wanted to be sure that...I hope it does not lead to
more request and we are trying to give in. I truly think the law enforcement is the
best way to address the speed limit and not by putting in speed humps. At the end
of the day, it is not realistic to put speed humps everywhere that people are speeding.
There is crazy drivers everywhere. My solution is to give them tickets.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: There is not really any other use for this road
besides entrance to the school, correct?
Mr. Tabata: Yes.
Councilmember Cowden: This is just like having speed humps in any
elementary school.
Mr. Tabata: The seniors maintain a softball park which is
also up here.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay. Apparently there is a problem and that
is why the request is there.
Mr. Tabata: Yes.
Councilmember Cowden: We have preschoolers and vulnerable people
in this area.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: I had a friend, Roy Costa, his child was going
to this school and he was saying there was a lot of times drivers would go off of the
COUNCIL MEETING 17 JULY 31, 2019
highway and they would speed on that road. He along with others in the community
talked about putting in a speed hump or similar to slow people down from speeding
through that road. I do not know why they want to speed through that road? He said
it is dangerous for the children there.
Councilmember Cowden: Yes, I support that.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: If it is happening regularly, the best way is to
get a picture or have police to catch the person. To me, by placing the speed hump
there makes you think you are going to stop the problem. In reality, the only way to
stop the problem is by giving the person a ticket and a big fine. To me, long-term,
that is the way...there are bad drivers out there. The bad drivers are the people that
you need to catch and give tickets too.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Are there any other questions for the
Administration. If not, thank you. Is there anyone in the audience wishing to testify
on this item?
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Seeing none. Is there any final discussion
from the members? If not, roll call vote.
The motion for adoption of Resolution No. 2019-48 was then put, and carried
by the following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Chock, Cowden, Evslin, Kagawa,
Kuali`i, Kaneshiro TOTAL— 6,
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Brun TOTAL— 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Motion passes.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Next item.
BILL FOR FIRST READING:
Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2757) — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
ZONING MAPS AND DESIGNATIONS IN THE SOUTH KAUAI COMMUNITY
PLAN (County of Kauai Planning Department, Applicant): Councilmember Kuali`i
moved for passage of Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2757) on first reading, that it be ordered
to print, that a public hearing thereon be scheduled for August 28, 2019, and referred
to the Planning Committee, seconded by Councilmember Chock.
COUNCIL MEETING 18 JULY 31, 2019
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Are there any questions for the
Administration?
Councilmember Cowden: I see that we have drawings, are we not going
to look at that?
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Yes, we are able to. Ka`aina, can you give us
a brief overview. I know it is only first reading.
KAAINA HULL, Planning Director: Good morning, Chair and
Councilmembers. Ka`aina Hull, on behalf of the Planning Department. What you
have before you is a proposed series of amendments to the Table of Uses and the map
and designations for the South Kaua`i Community Plan. A brief overview of the South
Kaua`i community Plan. The South Kaua`i Community Plan was up four (4) or five
(5) years ago. It was one of the primary engines in which the South Kaua`i
Community looked at the plan and said, "We want more than just Euclidean Zoning
that is overlaid across the entire island is applicable everywhere," and"We would like
to take more of an active role in shaping the design and use standards for our
particular region." What was ultimately adopted was the South Kaua`i Community
Plan that goes beyond standard zoning and theadoptive was referred to as
Form-Based Code. It is a series of transects which allows various uses and design
standards in particular section of both Koloa Town and Kalaheo. The insight behind
this was also looking at allowing more infill development to occur in our town core
areas while not providing further suburban sprawl into our open and agricultural
lands. That is in a nutshell. It was the first Form-Based Code adopted in Hawai`i.
When it was discussed with you folks during the adoption time, I think Michael
Dahilig warned you that this is the first Form-Based Code (FBC) that we are
adopting. It was a pilot project. Fast-forward three (3) or four (4) years since this
adoption, we found that there is a few hiccups, if you will. We came across a series
of properties that originally had General Commercial Zoning. We overlaid what is
referred to as the Transect-3 (T3), which is primarily a residential overlay. Why that
happened...when you look at the minutes and the input that happened during group
discussions, some of the buildings and uses on these commercial properties,
historically, had been residential, but had Commercial Zoning. Commercial uses
were permissible, but the form and character was residential. The overlay that was
put on was T3, as I mentioned is primarily a Residential, and there is really no
Commercial uses permissible in T3. We found a few properties that we needed to
downzone them away from Commercial to Residential. Chance Bukoski and our staff
took it upon themselves to look throughout the entire South Kaua`i Community Plan
to see how pervasive the downzoning was. He grabbed every Tax Map Key (TMK)
that he could identify that had either Commercial zoning or immediately adjacent to
something that was appropriate for Commercial zoning. He drafted the maps you
have before you which is looking at providing what is referred to as the Transect-4
Village Center. It is permissible to have commercial uses in them. We also recognized
above and beyond the maps and returning the zoning rights to these properties that
were zoned for Commercial. In addition to returning them, our department also
COUNCIL MEETING 19 JULY 31, 2019
recognized that during the South Kaua`i Community Plan adoption, there was a bill
forwarded by Council Chair Kaneshiro that looked at removing the prohibition on
multi-family in the Residential zoning district. That bill ultimately passed, but the
South Kaua`i Community Plan was happening on a separate track. During the
original proposal, the prohibition, the drafters who drafted it recognized the
prohibition was placed, and put that prohibition on multi-family in the Residential
zoning district within transects. Although the Council had to remove that prohibition
throughout the rest of the island in the Residential zoning district, there was that
prohibition in the South Kaua`i Community Plan. You see a lot of changes on the
table in allowing for multi-family uses that is essentially aligning the South Kaua`i
Community Plan with what this body did several years ago in eliminating the
prohibition of multi-family in R-4 or lower. That is in a nutshell, it can come across
as very convoluted, and some are complexed because it is not officially a zoning map
per se. It is an exhibit within the South Kaua`i Community Plan, but it functions like
a Zoning Map and land use rights are within this map.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: I always struggle with acronyms. When I see
T4VC et cetera, I then look at the chart here. I wondered, is there anything simple?
Is the gray area basically mixed-use and the purple area basically retail mixed-use
use? The legend brings you back to this pretty complicated area. It seems like T3VE
is green, is that housing?
Mr. Hull: The T3 zones T3VE and T3VN which is
Village Edge and Village Neighborhood, that is what the acronym stands for. Those
are primarily...the Village Edge is you are really looking at the rural level of R-1 to
R-2 as standard.
Councilmember Cowden: Village Edge, okay. "N" means
Neighborhood?
Mr. Hull: "N" means Neighborhood, that is correct.
Councilmember Cowden: "VC" means Village Center?
Mr. Hull: Village Center, correct.
Councilmember Cowden: 4N and 3VN means Village Neighborhood?
Mr. Hull: 3VN means Village Neighborhood and 4N is
actually Village Neighborhood-Flex.
COUNCIL MEETING 20 JULY 31, 2019
Councilmember Cowden: Village Neighborhood-Flex. So, it is just a
shortcut. If it said that somewhere on the legend, I would not have called you up.
Mr. Hull: Okay, yes, I am sorry.
Councilmember Cowden: Do you know what I mean?
Mr. Hull: Yes. That whole thing is supposed to have
been read somewhat in conjunction with the entire South Kaua`i Community Plan
with the maps, use tables, and building types that are permissible. I will be honest,
it does not flow as readily and easily as our standard zoning Euclidian style. That
was somewhat by design in working with the communities. Form-Based Code is
essentially a way that communities in the South Kaua`i Community Plan decided to
do it through their plan. They are able to recognize the regional or specific areas,
architectural, historic, or the form and character of the overall town. By recognizing
that each one of these actual subsets within that town, they will have a distinct and
unique quality to them. There will be a series of different "transects" is what they
are being referred as—transects to recognize the various uniqueness. Make no
mistake, it is not necessarily the easiest thing to read. Like I said, it had to get a bit
complexed when trying to analyze each areas of unique and historical integrity.
Councilmember Cowden: Yes. I went to a lot of those meetings and I
support Form-Based Code. I think this is headed in the right direction, and into the
future. I think if we are able to make these maps user-friendly for people who do not
work within the department, that might be valuable for people to participate
and/or...we have this up that will be used for public hearing soon, to be able to listen
to the people in the community. When it is my job to look at it and it is a little hard,
I am just suggesting that maybe we make it easier for the public so we have less
problems. I appreciate the work and thank you for the clarification in saying that the
4 and 3 do not mean anything other than which transect to look at.
Mr. Hull: Correct.
Councilmember Cowden: Okay.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Page 4 actually has a description of all the
Form-Based Transect Zones.
Councilmember Cowden: Page 4.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: If you go to the beginning of this item,
C 2019-177, it has a description of all the Transect Zones.
COUNCIL MEETING 21 JULY 31, 2019
Councilmember Cowden: I still think you are able to put it at the bottom
to make it clear and easy. I did spend some time looking. Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: Ka`aina, what is the telecommunication
facilities amount or what is it defined as?
Mr. Hull: What was that?
Councilmember Chock: Telecommunication facilities.
Mr. Hull: That is when Verizon Wireless and AT&T
folks come in to have their antenna raised essentially.
Councilmember Chock: Okay. It is just places where they are able to
place an antenna for...
Mr. Hull: Yes. I would say that it generally comes into
conjunction with a generator and other equipment based cabinets. There is some
discussion going on at the legislature last year, the past few years, and here on Kaua`i
about the shift to 5G. The 5G equipment does not come with the mass amounts of
generators and equipment cabinets. It is just an antenna. I believe there are some
discussions going on about lending outright permissible under State Law and
attaching it to telephone and Kaua`i Island Utility Cooperative's poles. I want to
clarify that when AT&T and Verizon Wireless telecommunication companies come in,
if they are proposing the equipment cabinets and the whole array of site
improvements, that will be captured on a telecommunication facility. If they are only
proposing a pure antenna, that is classified as an accessory use to what it is being
attached to.
Councilmember Chock: So it is different from this. Some of them from
not being allowed to use from a required, right.
Mr. Hull: Yes.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: On that last piece, there has been a lot of
community concern and awareness over the implementation of 5G, which is not only
for your cell phones but for your refrigerator, diapers, et cetera. It is for everything.
If people want to put that kind of diapers on their babies. How do people who are
COUNCIL MEETING 22 JULY 31, 2019
concerned about...it is true, it will tell you if the baby is wet. How do people who are
looking at that, do we have a way of seeing where they are going to putting...I think
they have to be about every two hundred (200) feet apart or something like that. Is
there a process where that is going to be implemented and are you going to be able to
see it on the plan?
(Councilmember Chock was noted as not present.)
Mr. Hull: In the discussion of 5G and the way that
antennas are placed, if it is just an antenna, it is an over-the-counter permitting
process. If it is a telecommunication facility 5G or otherwise that comes with its
actual site plan and design of equipment cabinetry, generators, et cetera, that will
generally require a Use Permit with the exception of the Industrial Zoning District.
There are public hearings held for those items, but not on pure antennas that are
being linked up in close proximity.
(Councilmember Chock was noted as present.)
Councilmember Cowden: They are putting it up outside of people's
poles...every other pole, do you know if those are already in?
Mr. Hull: I do not believe so at this time.
Councilmember Cowden: How would we find out if they are? For people
who are deeply concerned about this, how are they able to be proactive? We may need
to have a different meeting on this? I am deloused with this concern.
Mr. Hull: I believe you are able to go through the
Federal Communications Commission. At the end of the day...
Councilmember Cowden: So we are not able to go to the County?
Mr. Hull: At the end of the day, under the
Telecommunication Act of 1996, while it provides counties and municipalities the
opportunity to review this on a Land Use basis, it explicitly prohibits counties and
municipalities from regulating these sites on the basis radio emissions.
Councilmember Cowden: At the National Association of
Counties (NACo) conference, that was pushed back in asking for that change at the
federal-level. I am being asked regularly if these are being installed on the island.
Do you know if they are?
Mr. Hull: I am not aware of the 5G being installed at
this point which are the ones that require closer proximity.
COUNCIL MEETING 23 JULY 31, 2019
Councilmember Cowden: Would you ever be aware or would it just
happen?
Mr. Hull: It would depend where the 5G equipment is
being placed.
Councilmember Cowden: So it could mean that they are already in and
you would not know because you do not need to be asked.
Mr. Hull: If they are in road right-of-ways, which do not
technically have zoning authority, they do not get a permit from us.
Councilmember Cowden: Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Evslin.
Councilmember Evslin: First of all, thank you for doing this. I really
do appreciate the intent of Form-Based Code, your willingness to revisit this, and
making it more flexible. My question is on the Village Edge, it seems that it is the
only transect that does not allow daycare centers, what is the rationale for that? Is
this consistent with all agricultural land where daycare is needing a permit?
Mr. Hull: Right now, that is consistent with the way our
Zoning Code functions are. We do allow daycare under the Department of
Health (DOH) standards. I want to say that the DOH standards for residential
daycare is around six (6) children with no more than two (2) infants. That is outright
permissible. We consider that as accessory to the residential unit because of the state
rules, but once you exceed that number of six (3) children is when we trigger Use
Permit.
Councilmember Evslin: Okay, great, thank you. Anything under
six (6) is allowed "by right" anywhere on Kaua`i.
Mr. Hull: It would be in primarily in residential. If they
are doing that on agricultural land, because of the state rules if it is kept under
six (6), we would then interpret that as accessory.
Councilmember Evslin: Within the Village Edge, under six (6) would
be allowed by right? Thank you. We have talked about this a little bit, for the village
center, my only real concern is on the requirement for more than two (2) on all
buildings which includes commercial space. If someone has commercial space and
wants to do mixed use, they could not put one (1) or two (2) units, they would have to
put three (3). I believe for building size, it might be hard to fit three (3). I do not
COUNCIL MEETING 24 JULY 31, 2019
know if there is a mechanism to do this, but it would be good to discuss ways to allow
for some flexibility.
Mr. Hull: Yes. I had the discussion with the planning
team yesterday. Chance Bukoski, who is not here today, prepped this document,
brought up the fact that with the recent bill that was passed with you folks concerning
residential setbacks and lot coverage. Form-Based Code is generally meant as a
mechanism to recognize historical integrity and uniqueness of an area but
simultaneously free-up for infill development. Chance pointed out in yesterday's
meeting that with the Residential Setback and Lot Coverage Bill, we have freed up
our Residential Zoning District in ways that is actually freer than some parts of our
transects under the South Kaua`i Form-Based Code. Perhaps, we may want to look
at folding that into here. I believe it was a valid point that he brought up which is in
line with what Councilmember Evslin is talking about with regards to all of Kaua`i
being able to do up to two (2) or less units. This one (1) section could be prohibited.
I am looking at sending a transmission to you folks considering a possible mechanism
which allows the department to"use as discretion"when the code is liberal. Generally
the interpretation is, you are always having to fall legally with administering the
conservative code. There are two (2) codes in the South Kaua`i Community Plan. You
have the Euclidean Zoning of CG and R-1, and you have the South Kaua`i Transects
who have overlaid that. The code right now states, South Kaua`i Community Plan is
the superseding code. I would have to work with the Office of the County Attorney,
but if there is a possibility to insert a mechanism that allows us to make an
interpretation in the liberal. We will be working on this in the next few weeks to
transmit that to you folks.
Councilmember Evslin: Awesome, thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Are there any other questions from the
members? Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: Was the South Kauai Community Plan
written that way or are all of our plans written that way; that it supersedes our
general code?
Mr. Hull: This is the first plan that went for a full
holistic overlay of a new zoning layer. The other plans such as East Kaua`i and the
North Shore Community Plans, West Kaua`i does not have it. As we do the West
Kauai update, the community is definitely asking for that so we are looking to
provide that on the first draft.
Councilmember Chock: I was asking for West Kaua`i.
COUNCIL MEETING 25 JULY 31, 2019
Mr. Hull: East Kaua`i and the North Shore Community
Plans as they were originally done as development plans, they have a few
mechanisms that are superseding and overwriting. One that everyone is familiar
with is that north shore has a superseding height restriction. The twenty-five (25)
feet height limit in the North Shore Development Plan supersedes all the other
zoning overlays that the north shore has. They are written that way, but South
Kaua`i and East Kaua`i have a few regulations that are applicable. It is not a holistic
zoning overlay.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: I had a follow-up on the setbacks. I cannot
remember. When we did Form-Based Code, did we make the setbacks more flexible
or less flexible than the current setback? With the new setback law that we set, is
the Form-Based Code more flexible or less flexible than the new setbacks?
Mr. Hull: In the Commercial District with the
Form-Based Code which is generally the T4 Transect, the T4 Transect is more
flexible. In the T3 Transect which is a residential overlay, now that the Bill that
freed up for Residential Zoning allows for the five (5) foot setback on almost all
property lines and ten (10) feet in the front, the Residential T3 Transect is more
restrictive in Koloa and Kalaheo.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: This is probably something we are able to talk
about later on adjusting that. I know at that time that the Form-Based Code came
in, we were looking at it being more flexible. We thought that would be better. The
look that we were trying to get was having more houses towards the front of the lot.
With our recent change in the setbacks, we may continue to play the balancing act.
Mr. Hull: The Form-Based Code is a bit of a balancing
act in sense that it is flexible for the T3 Zone which is residential, it threw away
density. Before, you had residential zoning that had R-2, R-4, and R-6...two (2) per
acre, four (4) per acre, and six (6) per acre, so on and so forth. The Form-Based Code
said "get rid on density." You are able to build as many homes as you would like to
on your property, insofar as they meet the design standards. The design standards
of Transect 3 in the South Kaua`i Community Plan reflected the way in which
plantation homes were built for the past century. That too, had robust setbacks.
When a lot of these homes were built of twenty (20) to thirty (30) feet setbacks from
the road, while the commercial center areas were saying "build it right up to the
road." Through this code, we recognized that there is a robust setback. In some areas
you would have a twenty (20) foot setback in the front of the residential section
because that is the form and character of the way developed over the past century.
Now that we have a new code under the standard residential regulations that says,
"you are able to have a ten (10) foot front and five (5) foot side and rear," that makes
it easier in a lot of places outside of the South Kauai Community Plan to put the
COUNCIL MEETING 26 JULY 31, 2019
additional dwelling units. It is an appropriate question to be asking. Should we not
also allow the South Kaua`i Community Plan to take advantage of this as well.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: This is simple. You have the colored area for
the Form-Based Code right around the center of the town. Out and on the rest, near
and around the park where it is not colored, is that presuming that it stays as-is and
as existing. There will be no change added.
Mr. Hull: There were no changes when the South Kauai
Plan was adopted. A lot of places on the map that is in Koloa Town, south of the
purple area, that is still residential zoning, but they still have the standard of R4 and
R6 Residential Zoning.
Councilmember Cowden: I am looking at Kalaheo. There is a beautiful
community that goes up and around both mauka and makai of the town. All of that
stays as-is.
Mr. Hull: Most of that around the civic area space that
you see there, most of that is in the R-2 to R-6 designation and with some agricultural
land. It is not touching. The Form-Based Code was a way to look at providing
opportunities for infill development, while simultaneously recognizing the unique
form and character of each town.
Councilmember Cowden. Okay.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Are there any other questions from the
members? If not, thank you.
Mr. Hull: Thank you, Council.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify on this item?
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there any final discussion from the
members? Roll call vote.
The motion for passage of Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2757) on first reading, that
it be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be scheduled for
August 28, 2019, and referred to the Planning Committee was then put, and
carried by the following vote:
COUNCIL MEETING 27 JULY 31, 2019
FOR PASSAGE: Chock, Cowden, Evslin, Kagawa,
Kuali`i, Kaneshiro TOTAL— 6,
AGAINST PASSAGE: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Brun TOTAL— 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: 6 ayes.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Next item, please.
BILLS FOR SECOND READING:
Bill No. 2612, Draft 1 —A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE TO AMEND CHAPTER
14, KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO THE PLUMBING
CODE: Councilmember Kuali`i moved to approve Bill No. 2612, Draft 1, on second
and final reading, and that it be transmitted to the Mayor for his approval, seconded
by Councilmember Chock.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Chair, we have one (1) registered speaker.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: I will suspend the rules to take public
testimony.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Yes, Kika Bukoski.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
KIKA BUKOSKI: Good morning Chair, Vice Chair, and
Councilmembers. Kika Bukoski, on behalf of the Plumbers and Fitters Local 675. I
am going to go through my testimony. Obviously we are missing one (1)
Councilmember, and one (1) Councilmember based on the last vote may or may not
impact the outcome of this measure. I hope that my testimony might provide some
additional information to maybe cause some of the Councilmembers that opposed in
the last hearing to support this Bill. Without hesitation, I can say that
Bill No. 2612, Draft 1 is a good Bill. It is a sound bill. Based on all the testimonies
and concerns I have listened to in the last several months from Councilmembers who
have expressed about cost, flexibility, and public health and safety, I am able to testify
in front of you with no hesitation that this Bill is solid. It has a solid policy, it
continues to allow for the flexibility that the county is looking for, to realize some of
the cost-savings, and it is built into the base code. You just talked about base codes.
The Uniform Plumbing Code (UPC) is the base code for the County of Kauai. It has
been since 1965. In the testimony that I have provided for you, I would like to run
through it quickly. There are four (4) general points along with exhibit attachments
that I would like to touch upon. I would like to explain what they mean. The first
point, Bill No. 2612, Draft 1, provides many improving efficiencies and cost-saving
opportunities over Kaua`i's current Plumbing Code and recognizes that using a single
Building Code reference, will simplify the work of contractors and building inspectors.
If you look at Exhibit 1, there is eight (8) pages with a series of communications
COUNCIL MEETING 28 JULY 31, 2019
between the State of Hawai`i, Department of Land Natural Resources Commission
on Water Resource Management and your Building Official regarding the use of a
single code book. Highlighted in yellow, it was actually suggested by your County of
Kaua`i Building Official that the use of a single code book over alternative codes and
more than one (1) code book is preferable. It is indicated that he actually
acknowledges that the use of a single code book verses alternative codes is the better
way to go. He has quoted a series of E-mails for your knowledge. If you take a look
at page 8, Exhibit 1, the cost of implementing the International Plumbing Code (IPC),
if it used as an alternative code, you have to purchase...
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Mr. Bukoski, that is your first three (3)
minutes. Is there anyone else in the audience wanting to testify? You will have
another three (3) minutes.
Mr. Bukoski: Okay. You have to purchase seven (7)
additional code books to implement the IPC. There is a cost of over seven hundred
dollars ($700). These are for plumbers, inspectors, administrators of the code,
contractors...you are going to have to purchase seven (7) code books to implement the
IPC. The UPC is a self-contained code book. If buy one (1) book that costs one
hundred twenty-five dollars ($125). It is very prescriptive. Everything is in that one
(1) code book and you do not need seven (7) references to implement the code. If you
look at Exhibit 2, a Councilmember from the north shore mentioned a (Inaudible). It
is a reality. In 2018, this is a Bill that was introduced. Every year we have bills to
take out the UPC and replace it with the IPC in its entirety. This was the plan of the
Interstate Commerce Commission (ICC) since 2007 when they passed the Bill to
create the State Building Code Council. It is what they have done across the country.
They are simply trying to take out the UPC. One thing to note, why the Plumbing
Code? You folks might want to know, why the Plumbing Code? The Plumbing Code
is the only code that does not fall under the ICC. Every other code that is used across
the country falls under the ICC which is the family of codes. In the past, there has
been controversy between the National Electric Code and the Fire Code. The ICC
reached an agreement with the fire department, the National Fire Protection
Association (NFPA) and the National Electric Code (NEC). They are basically under
the umbrella. The only outline single code that does not fall under the ICC is the
UPC. It is the only competitor left out there. I refer to the ICC, as the "Costco of
Codes." The UPC is the last "homegrown, mom and pop shop" that provides the same
coverage, the same flexibility, and to utilize air admittance valves. Air admittance
valves does not belong to the IPC. It is not a proprietary mechanical device of the
IPC. It is a mechanical device that is able to be used by anyone including the UPC.
The Bill that you folks have in front of you allows for that use. All the cost-savings
that you folks want to provide and all the flexibility exist in this current Bill. I
implore you folks. You have been at this for three and one half(31/2) years. We finally
got this out of Committee, we are right there to realize all the water efficiencies and
cost-savings that the 2012 UPC is able to provide this County. I guarantee you that
you are still going to have the flexibility to use air admittance valves if your Building
Official so chooses.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Mr. Bukoski, that is your time. That is your
six (6) minutes. Is there anyone else in the audience wishing to testify? Seeing none.
COUNCIL MEETING 29 JULY 31, 2019
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there any final discussion or questions from
the members? We should take the vote on this Bill. If it is a 3:3 tie, it gets deferred,
and it is what it is. I do not think that the full Council has had a chance to take a
vote on this. We should state our peace, take the vote, and see where the votes end
up. Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: I feel bad for the staff and Mr. Bukoski who
had to fly here. Through the Committee and Council, we did not have the full
numbers. It is the same case again today. When you have a 4:3 level, when you are
to close in sides to choose, you need all seven (7). That is why we have the odd number
for this Council. Unfortunately, that is a number on this issue. I am afraid it will
end up a 3:3 vote. For me, the issue is that it is a Plumbing Code and the Plumbers
Union has an issue. I have never had anyone locally from the Contractors Association
of Kaua`i (CAK) or the local contractors agree with me on the statements made by the
Labors Union or the General Contractors Association which tells me that they are
placing it in our hands and not trying to influence. The UPC is able to cover
everything. I am saying without the IPC you are not able to do the same thing. The
UPC covers everything. Our license plumbers are trained on the Uniform Plumbing
Code. If you were to ask our local plumbers what the International Plumbing Code
is, they do not know. That is troubling for me because this is a "Plumbing Code" and
when you talk to the plumbers, they do not know about the code. I think they are
basically the same thing. The state needs to do a better job with clarification. With
clarification, you would not have the plumbers grumbling about their Plumbing Code
through the union. As Mr. Bukoski mentioned, if there were areas where you are
able to have cost-savings by utilizing the IPC, then it should be discussed thoroughly
so we are able to encourage the use Statewide. We should not leave it as a secret and
say, "this is the way we are able to achieve cost-savings." Why should that be a secret?
That should be put out there with the entire state. As Mr. Bukoski mentioned, no
one is willing to do the hard work. The state needs to do the hard work. He also
mentioned that Doug Haigh our Kaua`i representative agrees "now" that we need to
do the hard work and identify the areas that the UPC is not so clear about having.
The work is with the state. As I mentioned, to my committee members and fellow
Councilmembers, I also feel frustrated for you, too. You folks came into Council after
we have been discussing this for the past three (3) years. Poor Jenelle has been
working on this the entire time. It is tough because you have friends on both sides
that have been approaching all of us. We are not really sure how serious they are on
their position and ramifications. For us, to be lay people who are not in the industry,
and having to choose and make the decision on which friend we are going to trust, it
is a tough issue. I apologize to those of you who have been dealing with this for this
long. It has been in my committee and I never had the votes to move forward in either
way. I am apologizing but at the same time, there is nothing I could have done. With
that, my time is up. It is a very tricky situation that I have ever been involved with.
It is a plumbing bill. My gut tells me that I have to listen to the plumbers and that
is why I will be voting yes. Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone else? Councilmember Evslin.
COUNCIL MEETING 30 JULY 31, 2019
Councilmember Evslin: First off, I want to apologize to my fellow
Councilmembers and Jenelle. Two (2) months ago, we were prepared to receive the
Bill, but I encouraged this body to defer. I did that because the Plumbers Union and
Mr. Bukoski came to us with what I felt was a really good last minute compromise to
get the Plumbing Code passed adding the (Inaudible) to IPC. I was hoping that we
could have more time to work on that. Unfortunately that compromise is no longer
on the table. Going forward, my number one concern with every bill but especially
with this bill is health and safety. I was concerned about potential health and safety
concerns with IPC, but I think we have heard clearly that IPC is the dominant code
in the country and there has been no evidence of health and safety issues. I feel
comfortable as far as health and safety goes that the two (2) are comparably safe. My
next basis for judging this would be cost. When we are in the middle of the worst
housing crisis we have ever seen, if we are able to reduce building cost by one half
percent (1/2%), that is something. We need to do everything we are able to at least
give homeowners the flexibility to reduce cost or for the county to see cost-savings. If
one (1) person takes advantage of IPC to get that cost-saving, I feel it was worth
including it in there. Lastly, I feel uncomfortable or I do not want to get in the habit
of amending codes passed by the State Building Code Council. This has been passed
as Councilmember Kagawa said, we are not plumbers and we do not have the
expertise. I feel uncomfortable striking a line from something that was passed by the
State Building Code Council. For the public's clarification, if we received this Bill, I
believe this will go into effect in eighteen (18) months as passed by the State Building
Code Council. It will go into effect at some point if we end up receiving it eventually.
I will be voting against passage today.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Cowden.
Councilmember Cowden: Health and safety is important to me. What
is also important to me is the retention of specialized skills. Just a small metaphor,
when your car is broken they look at the Central Processing Unit (CPU) in the car to
decide which piece is broken and replace it. There used be mechanics that understood
how the engine worked and if they had to make a piece they would be able to do it. I
think to be able to retain the specialization of skills is really central to our resilience
as a nation, island, and as a whole. It is the plumbers who are specialized that are
asking to not have their knowledge be replaced by engineers who will simply say,
"okay, do this, do that" and it is like a "fill in the gaps and put this house or plumbing
together"by following a design that someone else has done. I think when people have
real knowledge and understand what they are doing is core. The other thing for me
is that when I see the regulation when looking at this is more of a "business entity at
the state" rather than the State Department of Health, that is not the trend line that
I like. I am going to support the amendment that is before us because I see that as
retention of supporting our plumbers, specialized labor force, and our skilled people.
I am going to stick with that.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone else? Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Yes, my vote is to support as well. Yes, the
Council now and before has been working on this for a long time. I think the one
constant throughout has been the Plumbers and Fitters Local 675. They have always
COUNCIL MEETING 31 JULY 31, 2019
answered our questions and has given the detail of why this is important. It is
important that we update the code to the 2012 Uniform Planning Code. Mr. Bukoski
has addressed our concerns about having the ability to do options, cost-savings, and
efficiency. Along with Councilmember Kagawa, I think this is a plumbing issue. We
should trust the plumbers first and foremost. The Plumbers Union has constantly
been here. There is no one here who is opposing. I think any concerns you have had,
Mr. Bukoski has addressed. I am not sure what the concerns are? I do think that it
is important that we take action. If you still have questions and concerns that need
to be addressed, bring it forward, and give us a chance to resolve this once and for all.
It is unfortunate that we have one (1) Councilmember that is absent. Hopefully if we
are not able to get there today, we are able to get there soon. I do not think this
should be received and not acted on, at all, as if we did not do anything. All of that
work would have been done for nothing. If we are not able to do it today, let us be
sure we are able to do it soon. Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone else? For me, the current Bill
as it stands completely strikes out the International Plumbing Code and only allows
for the Uniform Plumbing Code. For me, that is a battle that I do not think we should
be dealing with. It is a battle that should be dealt with at the State with the building
professionals. My no-vote...I will be voting no on this today. My no-vote keeps the
code the same which allows for both uses of IPC and UPC. It has been like this for
over ten (10) years. What it does is it provides residents and contractors with the
option to use either code and possibly provide the opportunity of cost-savings. It does
not hurt to have both codes. We have done something similar with the Energy Code.
The Energy Code came through and we softened the Energy Code on upfront cost that
were mandatory. These were costs such as submetering every bay in a commercial
building. Whether they wanted to submeter or not, it would be up to them to do but
it would be their option to decide from the beginning. There is also examples like
electric vehicle chargers, mandatory electric vehicle charges and garages, we also
softened that language to "may" instead of"shall." There was mandatory ceiling fans
in rooms...which are all upfront costs that would be forced upon someone who is
constructing. We softened that language to "may." In this case, I think we are doing
the same thing by allowing to keep both codes in. You are providing residents and
contractors with the opportunity to use either code that benefits them the most, and
that is why I will be voting "no" on this. Is there anyone else? Councilmember
Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: I want to ask for personal privilege or a little
lenience. I do not have time to give Mr. Bukoski. He came here today from the City
and County of Honolulu, thinking we had seven (7) Councilmembers. He has a few
more things that he wishes to share. I am hoping we are able to oblige him with
three (3) more minutes.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: If there is a question that you want to ask
him...
Councilmember Kagawa: Yes, what else more do you have to share that
is burning for you to say? You are the only one that came from the City and County
of Honolulu. I told you that we were going to have seven (7) Councilmembers today
COUNCIL MEETING 32 JULY 31, 2019
and I feel really bad that you came here. If you have a few things that you would like
to get off of your chest and say, this will probably be deferred for another two (2)
weeks.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: We did receive testimony.
Councilmember Kagawa: I am not saying the other people is not
important. He physically had to fly, the union is paying for him, and I am saying are
we able to give him three (3) minutes of Councilmember Brun's time?
Council Chair Kaneshiro: It will be no one's time. We are able to ask
him a question, if he is able to answer and keep the answers quick. It is not fair that
we provide him with more opportunity to speak than any other person that comes up
to testify.
Councilmember Kagawa: My apologies.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: He is professional...
Councilmember Kagawa: Mr. Bukoski, if you could share anything that
you feel that is able to change the minds of any of the three (3) Councilmembers that
are thinking of...they are not voting in favor. Please understand that they are torn.
There has been hard lobbying on both sides. Maybe there is something you would
like to share to them that you are able to change their vote?
Council Chair Kaneshiro: I will say this, we have heard Mr. Bukoski's
testimony, we have heard the testimonies, and I am not going to change my vote.
Councilmember Kagawa: Okay.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: My vote is my vote.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Mr. Bukoski: Would you like me to answer your question?
Councilmember Kagawa: Please.
Mr. Bukoski: Okay. I appreciate that question. First, I
would respectfully like to address a comment made by Council Chair Kaneshiro. The
Energy Code as you described, I totally agree. That is the process that has been
established to give the counties the leeway to amend and gear the code toward your
county. In the case of the Energy Code, you included and amended provisions and
you also softened language. The difference between what you did there and the
difference of what this language is doing in this Bill, is that you are not simply
including provisions, softening language, and changing language from a "shall" to a
"may." You are replacing an entire code to a different code in its entirety. You are
not simply adding and amending provisions, which we actually support and we have
been supporting since day one. That is the process that has been established. What
this language does is it allows the IPC to be used as published, not amended, and in
COUNCIL MEETING 33 JULY 31, 2019
lieu of it completely guts the UPC and replaces with the IPC. It is not a simple
softening. If it were, we would support it. We have tried to do that with stakeholders
and we have not been successful in doing that. I want to point out a comment that
was made by your Code Official in previous hearings. I ask you folks to please...I
have footnotes, documentations, actual facts and data that back up what I am trying
to say here. Your own county building code official basically said from your
January 30, 2019 minutes, "To be perfectly honest, even if we removed the provision
that we have in our code, we still could allow it through the alternative materials and
methods." At the last hearing, a Councilmember from Kapa'a asked me to comment
on certain studies that he received. I was not prepared to do it at that time. If that
Councilmember asked me today to give him information on those studies, I would be
able to address those studies in detail, and show him that those studies are somewhat
biased and they are not complete. They actually state it in the studies themselves
that these reports are not...they are based on assumptions, they do not take
everything into consideration, they do not take appendices, they do not take
provisions within the UPC and other nationally published plumbing codes. If they
were able to provide an entirely different result...they were given a question, they
fulfilled that question, and they were asked to compare the IPC to the UPC and the
use of an air admittance valve verses conventional venting. That is what they did,
no more and no less. The letters that came from Rutgers University and the United
States Department of Commerce were basically validating the methods that they
used. They did not validate the data and the information. They were validating the
methods that they used to conduct the studies, that is all that it was. I have
information on the Ford Field, Detroit Lions Stadium. The stadium was not built
under the IPC.
Councilmember Kagawa: I am sorry Mr. Bukoski. I need to respect my
boss. You have answered the question. I think we are ready to vote. Again, my
apologies. I wish we had seven (7) Councilmembers today.
Councilmember Cowden: I have another comment, may I?
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Yes, you have a second time.
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Councilmember Cowden: Okay. Another issue that is very important to
me is updating regardless of whether it is UPC or IPC, and if we brought it up, it
allows for water catchment. When I look into putting a second dwellings in, potential
for expanding our density...particular in the areas that are away from Lihu`e, we
need to be able to have more water usage. It is crazy in areas that are in the rain
shadow and we are not allowed to use the rain off the roof for yards and other
elements. To wait another eighteen (18) months on that when we are wanting to do
development, we are not able to put in a laundry mat, bathrooms in places like
K`ilauea...there is a lot that we are not able to do if we do not wait on this code to
change in eighteen (18) months. Maybe we will be able to change our processes to
have more water and less use from the potable water.
COUNCIL MEETING 34 JULY 31, 2019
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Are there any final comments from the
members, any for a second time? Councilmember Evslin.
Councilmember Evslin: I want to clarify a few things. To my
understanding, you are able to use a water catchment, but not able to have county
water too. You are not able to mix them.
Councilmember Cowden: I am meaning to have them mixed.
Councilmember Evslin: Okay. I think there is safety concern for
potential mixing. To address Councilmember Cowden when she said, "riding
plumbers out of the process," you are still needing to use plumbers whether it is IPC
or UPC. You need to utilize a licensed plumber. Number 3, as far as the idea of
gutting the code, from my reading this it does not do this. UPC is the primary code
that allows IPC as an alternative method and you will need an engineer's design. It
would still allow a heavy barrier in using IPC. That is all I would like to clarify.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone else? If not, let us take a roll
call vote. The motion on the floor is to approve.
The motion to approve Bill No. 2612, Draft 1, on second and final reading, and
that it be transmitted to the Mayor for his approval was then put, and carried
by the following vote:
FOR APPROVAL: Cowden, Kagawa, Kuali`i TOTAL— 3,
AGAINST APPROVAL: Chock, Evslin, Kaneshiro TOTAL— 3,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Brun TOTAL — 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0.
(Council Absence, Tie Vote; Pursuant to Council Rule No. 5(e), item shall be made
the Special Order of the Day at the August 14, 2019 Council Meeting.)
Council Chair Kaneshiro: The item is deferred.
Councilmember Kagawa: Again, my apologies to Mr. Bukoski.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Next item.
Bill No. 2693 — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
SUBSECTION 8-15.1(d), KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED, RELATING
TO ADDITIONAL DWELLING UNIT ON OTHER THAN RESIDENTIALLY ZONED
LOTS: Councilmember Evslin moved to receive Bill No. 2693 for the record, seconded
by Councilmember Chock.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Are there any questions for the
Administration on this item? I know there was discussion on whether we were going
to approve or receive. Councilmember Kagawa.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
COUNCIL MEETING 35 JULY 31, 2019
Mr. Hull: Good morning Chair, and Councilmembers,
Ka`aina Hull on behalf of the Planning Department.
Councilmember Kagawa Ka`aina, I watched the meeting from last
week. I totally agree with Councilmember Kuali`i. If local families live on
agricultural land, that are list of maybe thrity-four (34).
Mr. Hull: I think it is roughly thirty-eight (38)...
thirty-seven (37) or thirty-eight (38).
Councilmember Kagawa: If there are any local families that are of
middle-class or lower in range who could benefit from this, I believe it could help the
island in the affordable housing problem. Is there any plan, as I have suggested, to
have the Planning Department holistically look at all of the Ag lots on Kaua`i instead
of only those that had certificates from twenty-five (25) years ago. They had multiple
chances to renew, they missed their dates, and we gave them extra chances. For me,
I want the Planning Department to look at the holistic view over all the agricultural
lots. Look at the general plan and how it will fit, in hopes of opening up a process for
Additional Dwelling Units (ADUs) for those that are accepted with the current
general plan. The people that are on the old list are based on the old general plan
over twenty (20) to thirty (30) years ago. This would align with our current general
plan to say, "These are the areas in the agricultural land that we could accommodate
for growth." Is there a plan to do that or is that a process with the Planning
Department to continuously look for housing opportunity?
Mr. Hull: Councilmember Kagawa, I will be honest,
when I left here last week regarding this Bill, we find the number nominal which is
why we have no rejections. The county has been trying to stop the proliferation of
ADUs on agricultural land for the past fifteen (15) years. That is pertaining to
two (2) issues. There has been an objection to the form and character of suburban
sprawling into agricultural land. The objections to this began before my time at the
Planning Department. There have been attempts over that past decade to close that
door. In several occasions, the property owners came into say, "No, reopen it so I am
able to get paperwork in." You have been a part of that process. As the line gets
pushed back further, but still adhering to the recognition that several years ago there
was an attempt to close that door. It is because the form and character of civil and
sprawl into our agriculture open areas, but it also because there is a financial issue.
I wholeheartedly agree that it is cheaper and easier for a landowner to build a second
dwelling on agricultural land. The problems that we have seen over the past
thirty (30) to forty (40) years with suburban sprawling outwards, is the cost to our
infrastructure is exorbitant. We can no longer handle the cost of sending waterlines,
and sewer lines out there. The United States Postal Service workers are also saying
that they cannot handle and keep up with what it takes to deliver mail to a
concentrated area verses mail on a route that is mile long with six (6) or seven (7)
houses. The cost of infrastructure and we not being able to recoup the allowance of
additional ADUs on agricultural land, it is so far and beyond...it is why the general
plan update explicitly states, "further expansion to agricultural land should not
happen." Granted there being a need to expanding to new land to accommodate a
housing crisis, what the general plan states for that is, look at the greenfield lands
COUNCIL MEETING 36 JULY 31, 2019
that are immediately adjacent to our urban cores and do not allow the small density
level of ADU. Look at up zoning some of that lands to high-intensified use R-6, R-10,
or R-20.
Councilmember Kagawa: By providing that statement saying "no more
on agricultural lands" and to renew certificates that are based on old general plans
that have missed deadlines would also be frowned upon.
Mr. Hull: Yes, the general plan that I had presented the
first time I came here is that the general plan would not explicitly support the Bill
before you folks. The department is saying that it is a nominal number of thirty (30)
to thirty-eight (38). We have no objections to this and we are not out there supporting
this because the general plan does not support this vehicle. Being that the number
is so small, we have no objections.
Councilmember Kagawa: As Councilmember Kuali`i said, if we help a
few local families that could use this, it could provide benefit. We had two (2) issues
in a row that I am torn on. Sometimes, helping a few is less than we need to worry
about on the holistic affordable housing realms. Thank you.
Mr. Hull: Thank you, Councilmember Kagawa.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Ka`aina, my question is about the Planning
Commission. At the March 27, 2019 meeting, you made some of the same comments
to them in saying this is not meant to change and it is nominal. The Planning
Commission voted unanimously to support it. Although you tell us that the Planning
Department does not have any position, the Planning Commission took the position
in voting to support this.
Mr. Hull: Yes. Councilmember Kuali`i, do not get me
wrong...
Councilmember Kuali`i: When I read the minutes and the only
questions they had were procedural, they did not talk how we talked about affordable
housing and opportunity. Even if it were to help only one family, I did not see any of
that in the context. Perhaps, that is why they approved it or maybe because it is
nominal.
Mr. Hull: Yes, there was very little discussion. I will be
quite honest, the department has to take a position. Our position to the Planning
Commission is to recommend approval. I would not categorize our official position in
being a "no position." We do have a position and we are supportive of it; but at the
same time, we recognized that there are issues aligning with the general plan. Why
we are supportive is because it is a nominal number.
COUNCIL MEETING 37 JULY 31, 2019
Councilmember Kuali`i: The comment of what Councilmember
Kagawa is talking about is opening it all up and looking at it, that is not what you
are...
Mr. Hull: No. At the department, we did not have that
proposal.
Councilmember Kuali`i: Chair Mahoney said something like "the last
hurrah." This will truly be the last small piece of any families being allowed to do
ADUs on agricultural land based on prior entitlement.
Mr. Hull: You are the policymakers, I sit as an advisor
to policymakers, Mayor Kawakami and any of you is able to propose the reopening it.
I can say, "tentatively a full reopen." Without fully analyzing tentatively, the
department would have extreme reservations and concerns with opening it back up.
Any policymaker elected at any given time is able to propose to reopen the door.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Evslin.
Councilmember Evslin: Thank you, Ka`aina for coming. The
thirty-eight (38) people are those who did not recertify, right?
Mr. Hull: Correct.
Councilmember Evslin: There could potentially be those that have
turned in a clearance form and not a building permit and there is not record of it.
They could have a clearance form at home?
Mr. Hull: No. If they have turned in a clearance form
without a building permit, they would not be considered certified.
Councilmember Evslin: They would not be considered certified, but
they would be able to come in now and say, "Here is my clearance form from 2007?"
Mr. Hull: The way this is proposed and as I stated at the
Committee Meeting, we do have some reservations about eliminating the building
permit aspect. If you folks are looking at approving, the department would again as
requested at the Committee Meeting, to keep the building permit section in there to
ensure there is a tie between the clearance form and the building permit.
Councilmember Evslin: It could be the case right now that someone
has the clearance form at home and come into show it to you folks and there is no
record of them anywhere?
Mr. Hull: Correct. Above and beyond that as I stated at
the Committee Meeting, clearance forms are very easy to replicate. I have not come
across a fraudulent created form, but we have come across fraudulently created
documents in the land-use entitlement process. Being that it is so easy to replicate
and the building process is not, we would like to keep it in.
COUNCIL MEETING 38 JULY 31, 2019
Councilmember Evslin: Okay, thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Ka`aina, last time you
were here you said that there is about five (5) people that called in and said they are
not interested. Is that correct?
Mr. Hull: Yes, five (5) or six (6). The calls were made a
few years ago by Alex Wong who manages the ADU notification list. I kept a very
detailed excel spreadsheet of his contact points, (Inaudible), and I believe there was
five (5) or six (6) in which the landowner told him we do not want to certify it and that
is why they did not come in.
Councilmember Chock: What was the reason?
Mr. Hull: They did not have any intention of building
the ADU.
Councilmember Chock: Okay, it was nothing in terms of obstacles
that they were facing from our side?
Mr. Hull: I am only convey what was recorded on the
excel spreadsheet and it was that they did not intend to build anything.
Councilmember Chock: Okay. Since this item came back to the table,
has anyone come in with an interest? Is there anyone out there that wants to?
Mr. Hull: No. Well, at least no one has contacted myself
or any of my staff that I am aware of.
Councilmember Chock: It has been seven (7) days now but actually
months since this has been in commission.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Mr. Hull: Yes, the entire time we have had this in the
Planning Commission. This was actually proposed back in January 2018.
Councilmember Chock: It has been about one year and one half(1 %)
since this has been on the table.
Mr. Hull: I am not aware of any communications to our
department asking for support. I did receive communication, to be clear so I am not
accused about lying, there were communication from a few realtors. When I
presented at the realtors conference, they were very excited about this because they
felt as if we were reopening the door. They had conveyed an outpouring support for
the Bill until I explained this is not reopening. I am able to say that there was some
sentiment, but it had nothing to do with the actual Bill.
COUNCIL MEETING 39 JULY 31, 2019
Councilmember Chock: For the record, I heard you say, your position
here for the Planning Department is that you are supportive. You would be in
supportive if by chance this Bill is not approved and out of the blue, someone out of
the thirty (30) families who have the right and says, "You know what, we did not
know about it, we want to do this." Although we have already done this three (3)
times over the last five (5) or six (6)years, we are now ready, and we want to continue.
Would you be objective of that or of us? If I were to say, "No, we are going to put it
on the table because these people are ready and they were not aware or for whatever
reason."
Mr. Hull: In my role as the Director, if you decided to
not approve of this Bill, to receive this Bill right here and right now, if we were to
come back, we would have no objections because it is a nominal number.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present.)
Council Chair Kaneshiro: I have a question. You folks say that you
support the Bill in Commission, when did the deleting the submitting with building
permit application happen?
Mr. Hull: That was part of the original proposed bill
that came from Council.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: It came from Council?
Mr. Hull: Yes, this is an initiative of the Council.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: I am confused. You supported this Bill at the
Commission with this language, but you do not support this language.
Mr. Hull: Yes. It was brought up at the eleventh hour
before the committee that there is was a building permit issue and we did not raise
our intention when we were reviewing it at the Planning Commission. When we came
before you in committee, I mentioned that a day or two before it was brought to my
intention that if the deletion of the building permit is there, it becomes right for
fraudulent activity.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Does the current Bill say that in there?
Mr. Hull: Yes, the current bill says that.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Are there any other questions from the
members? Councilmember Evslin.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
COUNCIL MEETING 40 JULY 31, 2019
Councilmember Evslin: Just for clarification, if someone does not have
the right to an ADU, for every agricultural lot they would have the right to a guest
house? They would either have one or the other.
Mr. Hull: Correct.
Councilmember Evslin: Okay, thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: It does not require the ADU to be affordable
housing correct? They can build anything they want as an ADU.
Mr. Hull: Correct.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there any other questions? If not, thank
you.
Mr. Hull: Thank you, Council.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Chair, we have a registered speaker, Lonnie
Sykos.
LONNIE SYKOS: For the record, Lonnie Sykos. I will be honest,
I do not know if I am for or against this simply because of the confusion of trying to
understand government language. Here is what I am against. As a farmer in
Hawai`i, as someone who made their living off of farming for a number of years, every
single time you allow another dwelling on farm land, you drive the price of farm land
up. You talk out of both sides of your mouth, you want to promote farming, but you
want to destroy it by building housing on farm land. I am a haole born in Oklahoma.
Nonetheless, I am fully aware that these guesthouses that you are talking
about...how many of you grew up in a family that had a guest house? When you were
a small child in the plantation days, who had a guesthouse? All of you are worried
about some small farmer that has a guest house that is grandfathered in that you
might be depriving them use of. No small farmer ever had a guest house, it was the
rich folks, and all before tourism. As tourism developed, the need for guest houses
disappeared. Mark Zuckerberg and the uber wealthy all have guest houses just like
one hundred (100) or two hundred (200) years ago. Who working for a living today is
able to afford a guesthouse? There is no kitchen in the guesthouse, for the very reason
it is a guesthouse. They will come and stay for a few nights and then continue on in
their travels. This entire idea of turning what used to be sleeping accommodations
provided by the wealthy for their peers, because there were no other accommodations,
is archaic. Whether or not you want to continue this archaic tradition, you should at
least recognize it for what it is. Housing was never built to facilitate agricultural.
Not one (1) of these guesthouses was built to facilitate agriculture. The question
today is, what magically occurred to make the guesthouse now an agriculture feature?
Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING 41 JULY 31, 2019
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Thank you. Mr. Sykos, this is ADUs, the
guest house is at 1:30 p.m. public hearing.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present.)
BRUCE HART: For the record, Bruce Hart. I spoke about this
the last time and I am not sure where Councilmember Kagawa is at but I do not see
this going on longer than this. As Councilmember Chock mentioned, it has been one
year and one half (1 %); these people has had ample opportunity to come forward.
They only way I might support this is and I do not think there is, if these people come
forward, they would have to make some kind of commitment. I have to see a reality
and they need to build something. Even then, I am reluctant.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
I will say this, Ka`aina's position with planning and what he said about housing
encroaching on agricultural land, that verbatim is my testimony on the upcoming
public hearing bill for putting a kitchen in guest houses. In general, I am not for
more housing on agricultural land. What I would rather see is as Ka`aina said, is
that we look at land that is currently zoned, close to urban areas, it is marginally
agricultural, and we talk about rezoning that so people are able to build on it. I am
very aware of the infrastructure issue.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present.)
We cannot afford it. There is a house out in the middle of nowhere and we need to
run electric and plumbing. His position is also my position on this upcoming guest
house. Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone else in the audience wishing
to testify for the first time? Is there anyone for a second time? If not, thank you.
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there any final discussion from the
members? Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: I will be voting for the motion to receive.
Going way back, if you look at Kaua`i's classification on agricultural land, it is very
hard to tell if they are agricultural land because of where they are. Most are not
farming to make money. If they are farming, it is like a regular residential zone and
if we did farming growing fruits and vegetables; some to sell, but most to consume
and give away to friends and family. When you talk about agriculture, a lot of them
are essentially the same. If you add an ADU to a residential lot, it is almost the same
as adding and ADU to an agricultural lot. My problem is that this dated way back
when they looked at it. They had a large number that came up a few years ago and
they said, "Hey, you need to extend the deadline because it is so expensive to get the
money to build." We said, "It is unheard of," we tried it and it passed. A lot of these
COUNCIL MEETING 42 JULY 31, 2019
people, Patty Lyons, they were able to move forward and take care of their family.
We felt great when that happened. We are talking about people who are pig farmers
et cetera who are trying to make a goal farming and feeding our island. Finally, their
children have grown up, they need a place to buy, and the best place is right next to
their farm where they are able to help. They are able to work their jobs and still help
their family. Those are true farmers but there are a lot of them who are very hard to
tell apart besides the different tax that they pay. If you look at Homesteads, a lot of
them there are agriculture. What I am trying to say is we are trying to determine
which are local families that need the help and which are ones that have a lot of
money and is going to take advantage that do not need the help. Those are the ones
we do not want because they are going to be adding to our capacity when they are
already financially set. This is America, if you give an opportunity to one, everyone
will get the same opportunity. We do not get to distinguish who takes advantage of
zoning, laws, et cetera. It is a very tough job. Like Councilmember Kuali`i, we want
to help the local people and do everything we are able. Now, is always going to turn
out to be all roses? No, because this is America. Once you pass something, no matter
what economic class you are in, everyone has the same right whether you have a
penny ($0.01) or a million dollars ($1,000,000). It is a very hard and I believe we gave
enough extensions. The last time we gave those extensions, whoever sat on this
Council, we helped a lot of people. There is no doubt in my mind, we helped a lot of
local people. Sometimes, the extensions is needing to run out. They have an
expiration. Like any game or sport, there is a time limit. We have to know when to
cut it off and when to move forward. In doing so, we are able to play another game
in another way. At this point, it is not unreasonable for us to say, "This part of the
game is over." That is why I will be voting no, thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Evslin.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Councilmember Evslin: I will be voting to receive. I apologize that I
was not here at the Committee Meeting, but I did watch it. As Councilmember
Kagawa reiterated today, I think he is right in saying that we cannot continue to
grant extensions or moving the goal post. As Councilmember Chock and our Planning
Director spoke at the last meeting, for me, the potential for fraud is disconcerting. By
removing the building permit requirement is also unfair. To retroactively change the
rules here...I have had people come up to me and say, "If the requirement at the time
was to turn in the clearance form, they would have done it." The requirement to a
building a permit costs thousands of dollars. You need to hire an architect,
electrician, plumber, and then place the building permit. They did not do it because
they were not ready to build. It does not seem fair to retroactively change the
requirement to those who happen to have turned in a clearance form for no real
reason at the time. Lastly, I feel that I would be willing to overlook all of that if this
was in alignment with the General Plan. Being that it is not and clearly against the
General Plan, I do not see the rationale on how it compounds each of those issues. I
will be voting to receive.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone else? Councilmember
Cowden.
•
COUNCIL MEETING 43 JULY 31, 2019
Councilmember Cowden: I will be voting to receive basically because it
has ran a long time. I believe we do need to revisit this. I want to acknowledge what
our Planning Director said about the extension of infrastructure and water; septic is
usually addressed on the property. Why that parallel but completely separate water
catchment issue is really important to me. The water is not going to mix and if we
allow that, then it allows for the water to go out to take care of the trees and the
plants. When we are looking at having agriculture, I am going to disagree with one
of our earlier speakers that it takes sometimes two (2) families to be able to do this
and also work a straight job to afford the property. If the extra part of the housing is
going to part of the family or closely associated, I see the value. Really, we would be
able to get around some of those problems of the separated infrastructure. Given this
particular piece, I will support the move to receive. I think we really need to revisit
what we want in the future. I did talk to a few people who are in the position of being
in that thirty-eight (38), and they were over it. They did not care, they did not want
to proceed. When hearing and watching those people testify, if people have not come
forward, we are able to look at it later, and they are able to find another way. I am
going to vote to support the move to receive.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present.)
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone else? Councilmember Kuali`i.
Councilmember Kuali`i: I do not disagree with the statements that
have been made especially by Councilmember Kagawa, but I am going to vote against
receipt. For me, it is that hope and belief that...the Planning Department has
recommended it, the Planning Commission has approved it, it is nominal and it is
very finite. Even if a handful of those thirty (30) built housing for family, we need
housing so desperately that my principle is to support that. If we were looking to
approve, I would support the Planning Departments amendment. It looks like it is
going down and I am going to vote against receipt. Thank you.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I was here when we
went through it a few times and I help initiate the opening of it. It was really telling
at the time because we had a lot of local families coming up to us in needing help.
These families now have some rights. At that time, and the reason to support this is
because of the kind of housing they were looking at was for their family. It was
apparent at that time that it was necessary for us to support. We also supported a
second time. At this point, I am gathering that either people do not want to do it or
cannot. We stand to lose more by keeping it on the books; particularly because the
opportunity for abuse. I believe we need to close the door on it in order to look at
what was talked about before. When we spend our time looking at how it is, we are
able to look at the growth areas that we have identified for higher density on
agricultural land, and focus on building that. I believe that is where we are able to
move the needle. With that being said, if there was a family that came in today or
tomorrow and said, "Hey, we want to build." I would be willing to look at it again. At
this point, no one is stepping up and for me, it is more of a liability then something
we should support. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
COUNCIL MEETING 44 JULY 31, 2019
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone else? For me, I will be voting
to receive. As the Planning Director mentioned, the change in language allows for
the possibility of fraud which I am not comfortable with. In addition, we have
extended this date twice during my term. I believe we had a lot of meetings on this.
It was not just committee and final vote. I believe this has stayed in committee for a
while both times. It has been on the radar a lot. During those times, we did help out
a lot of families. It was in the hundreds that came in to finalize their eligibility. This
time around, we have not heard anyone. This came about in the 1980's. What is the
reality that the remaining home-owners is going to build and ADU to help housing?
I do not think it is very likely. It was here since the 80's, we went through a few
meetings, the people who wanted to keep it came in, they finalized their paperwork,
and we still have about thirty (30) remaining that do not answer. Even if they came
in, I do not think the possibility of them wanting to build is there and I do not think
it would be built. I am okay to receive. If we hear from people later on that they want
it extended, I know we will probably look at it again. At this point in time, I am
voting to receive. With that, let us take a roll call vote to receive.
The motion to receive Bill No. 2693 for the record was then put, and carried by
the following vote:
FOR RECEIPT: Chock, Cowden, Evslin,
Kagawa, Kaneshiro TOTAL— 5,
AGAINST RECEIPT: Kuali`i TOTAL— 1,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Brun TOTAL — 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Five (5) ayes, one (1) no, and one (1) excused.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: With that, that concludes what we have for
now. We have public testimony coming at 1:30 p.m., and we have an Executive
Session following that. Be back at 1:30 p.m. for the public hearing on guest house.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 10:26 a.m.
The meeting reconvened at 1:44 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Our final item is in Executive Session. Clerk,
can you please read us into Executive Session.
EXECUTIVE SESSION:
ES-997 Pursuant to Hawai`i Revised Statutes (HRS) Sections 92-4 and
92-5(a)(2), and (4), the purpose of this Executive Session is to consider matters that
require confidentiality under state law, to wit, the hiring of a County Auditor,
including interviewing any candidates, and terms and conditions of employment. The
further purpose of this Executive Session is to meet with the Council's legal counsel
on questions and issues relating to the Council's powers, duties, privileges,
immunities, and liabilities as it relates to this agenda item: Councilmember Kagawa
COUNCIL MEETING 45 . JULY 31, 2019
moved to convene in Executive Session for ES-997, seconded by Councilmember
Cowden.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify on this Executive Session?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Kaneshiro: Seeing none. Is there any discussion from the
members?
The motion to convene in Executive Session for ES-997 was then put, and
carried by the following vote:
FOR EXECUTIVE SESSION: Chock, Cowden, Evslin, Kuali`i
Kagawa, Kaneshiro TOTAL— 6,
AGAINST EXECUTIVE SESSION: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Brun TOTAL— 1,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
Council Chair Kaneshiro: We will head into Executive Session and we
are done for today.
ADJOURNMENT.
There being no further business, the Council Meeting adjourned at 1:45 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
siiI
A D . FOUNTAIN-TANIGAWA
County Clerk
:ks