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HomeMy WebLinkAbout02/22/2017 Council minutes COUNCIL MEETING FEBRUARY 22, 2017 The Council Meeting of the Council of the County of Kaua`i was called to order by Council Chair Mel Rapozo at the Council Chambers, 4396 Rice Street, Suite 201, Lihu`e, Kaua`i, on Wednesday, February 22, 2017 at 8:31 a.m., after which the following Members answered the call of the roll: Honorable Arthur Brun Honorable Mason K. Chock Honorable Ross Kagawa Honorable Derek S.K. Kawakami Honorable JoAnn A. Yukimura (present at 8:36 a.m.) Honorable Mel Rapozo Excused: Honorable Arryl Kaneshiro APPROVAL OF AGENDA. Councilmember Kawakami moved for approval of the agenda as circulated, seconded by Councilmember Chock, and carried by a vote of 4:0:2 (Councilmembers Kaneshiro and Yukimura were excused). MINUTES of the following meetings of the Council: January 12, 2017 Council Meeting January 12, 2017 Public Hearing re: Bill No. 2641, Bill No. 2642, Bill No. 2643, and Bill No. 2640 January 25, 2017 Council Meeting Councilmember Kagawa moved to approve the Minutes as circulated, seconded by Councilmember Brun, and carried by a vote of 4:0:2 (Councilmembers Kaneshiro and Yukimura were excused). Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next, we have three (3) interviews for Boards & Commissions. We can start off with Mr. Craig De Costa. INTERVIEWS: BOARD OF REVIEW: • Craig A. De Costa — Term ending 12/31/2019 Council Chair Rapozo: Mr. De Costa is nominated or recommended for the Board of Review. Mr. De Costa, welcome. I think this is your first time here in this capacity as the nominee or an applicant for a Commission. What we will do is COUNCIL MEETING 2 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 we will give you some time to introduce yourself and give us an overview, and then we will open up for questions. CRAIG A. DE COSTA: Okay. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Mr. De Costa: Good morning, Councilmembers and Council Chair Rapozo. I applied for the position on the Board of Review. I actually did serve on the Board of Review before years ago. I had to give it up when both my practice, as well as being named per diem judge required me to give it up. Since then, I am no longer a per diem judge. When I was asked if I would consider serving on the Board of Review again, I agreed to apply. My practice is with the private practice De Costa Hempey Meyers, LLP. I am the retired prosecuting attorney. I had served twelve (12) years in the Office of the Prosecuting Attorney in different capacities. I would like to be on the Board of Review because I did enjoy it and I thought we gave fair hearings to appellants, but also held them to their burden of proof. While I was there, we did update the rules a little bit and made recommendations to the Council to change some of the Ordinances to make it more practical, which I thank the Council for doing. So, I look forward to serving again. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Are there any questions for Mr. De Costa? If not, thank you very much, Mr. De Costa. I apologize for forgetting that you were on the Board of Review. Mr. De Costa: Well, that was years ago. No problem. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Anyway, thank you very much. PLANNING COMMISSION: • Wade L. Lord (Business) — Term ending 12/31/2019 Council Chair Rapozo: Mr. Lord. For the members of the public that are wondering "wow, these people do not ask any questions," all of the applications are here. We have had the opportunity for at least a week to review the applications and actually discuss any questions that we may have had with the applicants. This is a process that the Councilmembers have already looked at. With that, Mr. Lord, please just give us a brief overview of yourself and your interest in serving on the Planning Commission, and then we will open up for questions right after. WADE L. LORD: Okay. Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo and Councilmembers, for inviting me here today. I have been a resident of Kaua`i for thirty-five (35) years and in that time, I have been blessed to make friends and family and be very involved in the community. (Councilmember Yukimura was noted as present.) COUNCIL MEETING 3 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Mr. Lord: My first job was making rock walls with a Tongan family. Since that time, I have had the opportunity to have a variety of jobs and also meet a lot of wonderful people. Part of that has been this commitment to community that so many people here have, and what I have done over the years is to be very engaged with everything from Pop Warner football coach, to high school football coach, to being on various Boards and Commissions, community service organizations, and charitable groups. I feel like giving back is an important thing to do. I understand the role of the Commission and I have been involved in some aspects with various County citizens' advisory groups with the Crime Task Force as well as with the Citizens' Advisory Committee (CAC) for the Eastside Development Plan. I worked with that group for two and a half(21/4) years. I was just asked and thought it would be a wonderful opportunity to give back. I have some experience in business over those years, and I think I can add some value to the community and to the organization. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you, Mr. Lord. Are there any questions for Mr. Lord? Councilmember Chock. Councilmember Chock: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. Good morning. Mr. Lord: Good morning. Councilmember Chock: How are you doing neighbor? Mr. Lord: Very well. Councilmember Chock: I think you would be a very good addition to the Planning Commission. I just wanted to clarify, are you filling the Planning Commission as the role of...I do not know what the specific category is. Council Chair Rapozo: Business. Councilmember Chock: Business? I am sorry. I did not see it. Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, he is going to be filling the Business category. Councilmember Chock: That is what I was looking for, Business category. Thank you very much. Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any further questions? Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you. Good morning. Mr. Lord: Good morning. COUNCIL MEETING 4 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Councilmember Yukimura: My apologies for being late. I noticed on your application, you said you were involved in Eastside Development Update. Mr. Lord: Yes, I was. Councilmember Yukimura: I just wondered when that was. Do you know? Mr. Lord: Oh my goodness, it must have been about five (5) years ago. Councilmember Yukimura: Was that the Kapa`a-Wailua Community Plan? Mr. Lord: Yes, Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: And that was the update of it, right? Mr. Lord: Of the development plan, I believe, yes. Councilmember Yukimura: Or was that the original development plan process? Mr. Lord: No, it was the update to the development plan. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. That was a disappointment because we have not yet gotten any plan. One of your roles is to oversee the planning process, so I guess I am wondering whether you have any ideas about how we can do planning on a timelier basis because there was a lot of effort put into that plan, and so much time has lapsed that some of the decisions are already old. Mr. Lord: I agree. I think that it would have been nice if the funding were available to complete the plan. I was told that there was a funding issue to finish it. The work that went in was a tremendous amount, thousands of hours of volunteer work. I was one (1) of about twenty (20) citizens on that advisory group. We had numerous public meetings with various stakeholders throughout the region and worked closely with Hida Okamoto & Associates, Inc. and I think even Nadine Nakamura, at the time, was involved in that in a public role. Councilmember Yukimura: Can you speak more loudly? Mr. Lord: Oh, sure. Sorry. I think as it relates to a general plan or a broader plan, it needs to be a very coordinated effort between the various groups and government whether it is the State Legislators... (Councilmember Brun was noted as not present.) Mr. Lord: ...you folks at the County Council, Administration, as well as the citizens to really push to make those things align with COUNCIL MEETING 5 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 each other that are in that plan so that we can execute it. I think too often, plans are really well-thought-out documents that then are not really executed, so it is that sort of step of execution that is really critical. I think overall what I have read and I have not read the whole General Plan yet, but I have read portions of it. (Councilmember Brun was noted as present.) Mr. Lord: What I read so far, I really like. I think a lot of people put a lot of thought into it. I would like to see a coordinated effort between all of the various people that can move things forward. Councilmember Yukimura: Are you aware that we are presently updating our General Plan? Mr. Lord: I am. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. So that is going to be a big issue before you as a Planning Commissioner. Have you been involved at all, in any of the General Plan update meetings? Mr. Lord: I have not. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Well, I recommend actually reading the draft for the new update because that is what you will approve. Mr. Lord: And that is what I have been reading. Councilmember Yukimura: Oh, that is? Mr. Lord: Yes. Councilmember Yukimura: Oh, excellent. What do you feel are the three (3) biggest planning issues facing the island? Mr. Lord: Planning issues? Well, I think coordination is one. I think the agencies and the various, like I said before, the legislators, you folks, and the Administration, is important that if you going to execute a plan, you have to coordinate so that strategic planning is really important to execute the plan. I also think from a planning perspective, we obviously have some infrastructure issues and we need to deal with those. I think those cause a lot of stress on the local citizens here and rightly so. I think we live in a place that is the most beautiful place on Earth, people are going to come here, and we need to plan for that. I think it is important that we acknowledge that and that we steer that in a way that works for the citizens. I think those are the two (2) things that I can think of immediately that really need to be dealt with. I think that through those things, that opportunities will arise for local people. I think that is probably the third leg of that stool, that opportunities for local families and local people to be able to work, stay, and live here. I think we are getting squeezed. I think housing is probably the first step to that and then employment right behind it. COUNCIL MEETING 6 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Councilmember Yukimura: I think you have identified infrastructure and that is one of the key things, and coordination is also, but to begin with, you have to have a really good plan. If it is not a well-written plan, then coordinating something that is not really well-done. Mr. Lord: Sure. Councilmember Yukimura: So that would be the first step before the Planning Commission. Mr. Lord: Like I said, from what I read of the draft, it seems like it is off to a good start. It seems it is pretty thoughtful from what I have read, gleaned out of it so far. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Lord: You are welcome. Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions for Mr. Lord? If not, thank you very much Mr. Lord: Okay. Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. BOARD OF ETHICS: • Susan H. Burriss — Term ending 12/31/2019 Council Chair Rapozo: Last, we have Susan Burriss who is being recommended for the Board of Ethics. Councilmember Kagawa: Council Chair Rapozo. Council Chair Rapozo: I am sorry. Councilmember Kagawa: I just have a process question. Council Chair Rapozo: Sure. Councilmember Kagawa: Not to interrupt Ms. Burriss, but I am wondering after this interview, is there any chance that perhaps we can have the students come up, just really fast, and state their name to have them have a feel of what it is like to testify before the Council? Council Chair Rapozo: Sure. Councilmember Kagawa: And it does not have to be any pressure, but they can just say their name and maybe their favorite hobby or something. Council Chair Rapozo: It is not a problem. COUNCIL MEETING 7 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Councilmember Kagawa: I mean, if the Members agree. Council Chair Rapozo: I believe some of them have questions too. Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. Council Chair Rapozo: So we will go ahead and suspend the rules and they will be able to come up and ask questions, if they want. Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. SUSAN H. BURRISS: Do you want me to step aside for that? Council Chair Rapozo: No, you are up. Ms. Burriss: I am up on the hot seat. Council Chair Rapozo: It is not that hot right now. Ms. Burriss: I have seen it. Council Chair Rapozo: Ms. Burriss, if you could just state your name for the record, give us an overview of yourself and your interests in serving on the Board of Ethics, and then we will open it up for some questions. Ms. Burriss: My name is Susan Burriss. I reside in Kapa`a. I am interested in the Board of Ethics because it is something that I know. I am an attorney, but not licensed to practice in Hawai`i. I practice in California. I still do. I do it all remotely. It is lovely. Ethics, of course, follows lawyers wherever they go and that is part of the Bar Exam in all fifty (50) states, I believe. It is a good subject, a fun subject, a subject that people do not know usually when they have encountered it, and it is up to us to sort it out. I love ethics. That is kind of sick, but I do. Council Chair Rapozo: It is good that you know about it. Are there any questions for Ms. Burriss? Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: Hi, good morning. Ms. Burriss: Good morning. Councilmember Yukimura: I noticed in your application, you said the concept of ethics is illusive and I agree, but can you explain that? Ms. Burriss: Well, we are going to get a lot of examples in the next four (4) years coming from the presidency. But on a more local level, I think it is illusive because a lot of times you think you are doing the right thing and perhaps you are doing the right thing, but you may be unaware that the perception is that you COUNCIL MEETING 8 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 have not considered the implications. For example, if you have an interest in a business and if the business comes before the County, you really need to step aside and not have anything to do with that vote, probably not even the discussion, or maybe even leave the room even though you have no intention of doing the wrong thing. It is just a perception kind of thing and people do not see it. People do not see it when you have a situation of no harm, no foul, and lots of times that comes up. No harm, no foul, who cares? But you do care. You care if you put something up for bid that it is a fair bid, that it is open, and that the playing field is level. It is everywhere. Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you very much. You are right that the issue has come up already in President Trump's first one hundred (100) days, and it happens at all levels of government; how to separate the two, business and the work of government. You also say that ethics is vital in the operations of government. I wondered if you could explain that, and it might be by explaining why its perception is so important. Ms. Burriss: I think it is vital because everybody on this island needs to know that everybody in this room and any office in the County is going to be fair to them. It is not going to involve their brother, who might be the best contractor on the island. It is not going to involve their neighbor with whom they may have a dispute. Those things are not part of the equation, and that is why it is vital. You need to step back, you need to see things with a clear and unbiased eye, and you need to run the government that way as well. Councilmember Yukimura: And people need to see you doing that. Ms. Burriss: Exactly, yes. Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. Ms. Burriss: You may hire your daughter and she may be the best employee there ever was, but people are going to say, "Well, she is getting special treatment" or maybe she will be punished unfairly. Either way. Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you. Do you have a specialty in your legal practice? Ms. Burriss: Yes, pretty much all of my practice is tax oriented with mostly estate planning, trust administration, and that kind of thing. It ties our firm as a small business-related firm, so being part of the business continuity is the estate planning aspect, and they go together. Councilmember Yukimura: Very good. My last question is, I have noticed by participating, being someone whose ethics has been questioned, and also someone who is questioning ethical practices, that there is not a real continuity in terms of precedence of decision-making in the Board of Ethics. I was wondering whether you would be willing to take a look at that. COUNCIL MEETING 9 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Ms. Burriss: I was unaware of it and I would like to know more about it. I am not sure what you mean by the "unevenness." Councilmember Yukimura: Similar circumstances being treated differently and not looking at prior decisions of similar circumstances, things like that. Ms. Burriss: I guess it is important to look at prior decisions and if they were sensibly made, then follow them. If they were made for again, perception is all you can go by, for the wrong reasons, then you would not want to follow it. Truly, I do not know precisely what decisions you are talking about and so I am kind of speaking into the wind here. Councilmember Yukimura: You will be able to see that as you participate. Ms. Burriss: Okay. Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you very much. Ms. Burriss: You are welcome. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Are there any other questions for Ms. Burriss? Councilmember Chock. Councilmember Chock: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. Thank you, Susan, for being here. I appreciate your willingness to serve and I think you will make a good addition to the Board of Ethics. Ms. Burriss: Thank you. Councilmember Chock: The Office of Boards & Commissions goes through their own vetting process for members from the community who want to serve or any Board or Commission. There has been some discussion about the vetting of that from the ethics standpoint at the front-end. Ms. Burriss: I am sorry, vetting? Councilmember Chock: Vetting of a candidate or a volunteer for these positions from the front-end whether or not they are appropriate for those positions. I just wanted to get a sense from you, if you think the Board of Ethics should be part of that process. Ms. Burriss: Yes, I do. Councilmember Chock: Okay. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions? If not, thank you very much. COUNCIL MEETING 10 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Ms. Burriss: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. Council Chair Rapozo: The Council will be voting on all three (3) Resolutions for the Boards and Commissions nominees on March 8th. With that, we will take a short deviation from the agenda. We will go ahead and suspend the rules, if there are no objections. There being no objections, the rules were suspended. Council Chair Rapozo: If we could first call on maybe the teacher or the adult of that group, that could come up and give us a really brief overview of who we have? Can you just state your name for our captioner? That seat is still not hot. JONEL ELIAS, Elsie H. Wilcox Elementary School Counselor K-2: Hello. We am very glad to meet you folks. My name is Jonel Elias and I am a School Counselor at Elsie H. Wilcox Elementary School. Ronson Sahut and I are advisors for the Student Council. We do have some students that would like to ask you folks some questions. Council Chair Rapozo: Sure. Ms. Elias: It is very nice to meet you. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you for being here, and we appreciate you sharing our process with the students so they get an interest in being involved. I think that will make a huge difference going forward. Ms. Elias: They are leaders. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa. Hang on, Ms. Elias. Councilmember Kagawa: Jonel, I have a question. What grade are the students on the Student Council? Ms. Elias: 3rd, 4th, and 5th, and we have four (4) officers as well. Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you. Ms. Elias: Our officers are all in the 5th grade. I am the Kindergarten, 1st, and 2nd grade Counselor, and Ronson is the Computer teacher for the entire school. Councilmember Kagawa: I just want to thank you folks for putting this together. Ms. Elias: Thank you for having us. We are really appreciative. COUNCIL MEETING 11 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. You can send them up how you want to. Is there a Student Body President here? Well, you start, sir. RYAN CHANG: Hello my name is Ryan Chang. I am the school's Student Body President. Right now, I am asking you what we can do for the tennis courts at our school because the tennis court parking lot has been a problem. When it rains, people slip on the rocks and they get hurt or muddy. There might be something that we can do to help or another example is that people are driving on the rocks and their tires can get flat, so they have to call the tow truck. Maybe we could do something about that. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Hang on, real quick. Do you mean the people driving over the rocks? Mr. Chang: Yes... Council Chair Rapozo: Wow. Mr. Chang: ...because the tires on the little rocks bump into about five (5) or maybe ten (10) of those rocks and then coming back, they go ten (10) rocks again. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Councilmember Kagawa, who is also a school teacher, is also the Chair of our Public Works/Parks & Recreation Committee. Although the tennis courts itself is part of the State, maybe you and Councilmember Kagawa can work together and write a letter with Councilmember Kagawa and yourself signing, and we can send it over to the Governor. How does that sound? Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: I golf with Ryan occasionally, so we can talk about it when we golf as far as what our plan of attack is. I just want to let everybody know that we are going to work hard on that one. Council Chair Rapozo: Is he a good golfer? Councilmember Kagawa: No, I am not. He is good. Council Chair Rapozo: I will tell you a real quick story because my daughter used to go to Elsie H. Wilcox Elementary School and when she was in the 2nd grade, she told me that the girls' bathrooms did not have doors and she asked me why we cannot put doors. I asked her to write a letter to the Governor and she wrote a letter to the Governor, who was Linda Lingle at the time. Being her dad, I took the letter and sent it all of the newspapers and all of the television news in the State, and the doors got put on. I am not sure if the doors are still on. I hope the doors are still on the bathrooms. Can you imagine going to the bathroom without a door? But that is how it was and I just say that story because you kids are important, and if you want to see something change, you can let us know and we can help you let the State know and we can hopefully make some change. It does work. You and COUNCIL MEETING 12 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Councilmember Kagawa can get together and write a letter, and we will see if we can get that fixed, okay? Mr. Chang: Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: We will actually have a letter sent today from our staff. Council Chair Rapozo: I want him to sign it, too, though. That would be cool. Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. As far as if it is the County's tennis court that needs to be rep aved or what have you. I think there are a lot of cracks on that court. Council Chair Rapozo: Perfect. Councilmember Yukimura, do you have a question? Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. This is about a County tennis parking lot, right? Councilmember Kagawa: Yes. Councilmember Yukimura: Why are we writing to the Governor about it? Council Chair Rapozo: Oh, I thought the tennis court was part of the State, but if it is the County, then it will be even quicker. We will write it to the Mayor. Councilmember Kagawa: I think it is the County's tennis court and parking lot. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Councilmember Kagawa: It is right across of what street is that? Malae Street. Council Chair Rapozo: Yes. I just thought it was part of the school. If not, then it might be even quicker because I know they are watching. Look at the camera and say, "Please." We will get that letter done today and make sure Ryan—what was your last name? Mr. Chang: Chang. Council Chair Rapozo: Ryan Chang, make sure the letter has his signature line as well. He is the Student Body President. For what grade? COUNCIL MEETING 13 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Mr. Chang: 5th grade. Council Chair Rapozo: 5th grade Student Body President, Ryan Chang, and of course, Councilmember Kagawa. We will get that out today. Before you leave, we need your signature, okay? Mr. Chang: Okay. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Who is next? If you want to come up in twos or even threes, you can come up if you want. SOPHIA BADUA: Hi. My name is Sophia Badua. I am the Student Body Vice President. My question to you is, how much money do you make for this job? Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: I think the Council Chair gets paid about sixty thousand dollars ($60,000) a year and other Councilmembers gets paid about fifty-five thousand dollars ($55,000) a year. Council Chair Rapozo: I am sorry, I missed the question. I was talking to our staff. Did you ask how much we get paid? Okay. I think Councilmember Kagawa got it right. Ms. Badua: Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Was that the only question? Ms. Badua: Yes. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. How about you, smiley? This boy has been smiling since he walked in. SAGE JAVINAR: Hello. My name is Sage Javinar. My question is, I play for Kaua`i Youth Football and where we play down Nawiliwili Park, I have a concern about the grass because when it is really dry and there is no rain, it gets really dry. When it is dry, the pokeys get so hard that when we do bear crawls it penetrates our hands. So I think that you folks or the Department of Parks & Recreation staff should water the parks about two (2) or three (3) days in the week. Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, I think we should, too. Councilmember Kagawa, again. I think most of the issues that affect the students of Kaua`i, island wide, will come under his Committee. Go ahead. They are all watching now. Look at the camera, smile, and say, "Please." Mr. Javinar: Please. COUNCIL MEETING 14 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Council Chair Rapozo: We will do the same thing. We will send over a letter asking them. I am not sure if that is County or State park, Nawiliwili. Councilmember Kagawa: I believe it is a County park. Councilmember Yukimura: It is a County park. Council Chair Rapozo: It is County? Councilmember Kagawa: Yes. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Councilmember Kagawa: We will have a letter again, sent to the Department of Parks & Recreation, and hopefully we can get some cooperation on perhaps doing better maintenance and watering of that field... Mr. Javinar: Okay. Councilmember Kagawa: ...so that there is not so much pokey kukui on the field. Council Chair Rapozo: What is your name again? Mr. Javirnar: Sage javinar. Council Chair Rapozo: Sage Javinar? Mr. Javinar: Yes. Council Chair Rapozo: Are you are a student body officer as well? Mr. Javinar: I am a Student Council Representative. Council Chair Rapozo: Student Council Representative? Mr. Javinar: Yes. Council Chair Rapozo: For which grade? Mr. Javinar: The 5th grade class, P-6, Mr. Cwik's class. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Student Council Representative for the 5th grade, Sage Javinar. Perfect. Do not leave until you sign that letter, okay? Councilmember Brun: When you go back, sit by the Managing Director and see if he can... Council Chair Rapozo: Oh, he is here. COUNCIL MEETING 15 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Councilmember Brun: ...have him follow-up on it. Go sit down by him and talk story with him. Mr. Javinar: Okay. Council Chair Rapozo: The gentleman right there. Wally, can you raise your hand? Look at Wally. Mr. Javinar: Okay. Councilmember Brun: Give him the letter that you wrote. Mr. Javinar: Okay. Council Chair Rapozo: He is the Manager of the entire County, so he is listening and writing it all down. Councilmember Brun: Go sit down by him. Mr. Javinar: Okay. Thank you for your time. Council Chair Rapozo: Next. LEIALOHA COLE Hi, my name is Leialoha Cole. My question to you is, what are we doing to help the poor or people in need? Council Chair Rapozo: I am sorry, helping what kind of people? Ms. Cole: People in need. Council Chair Rapozo: Oh, people in need in general. We have a lot of people in need right now. The County tries to do its best to try to provide housing. We support the food banks on Kaua`i to provide some food for the needy. Whenever we can help, if we know there is a need, we definitely try to support in that way. We are coming up on budget where we basically say how we are going to spend our money for the next year, and if we know what the needs are and we can and we do have available funds, then we definitely put the funds to those needs. Right now, we are trying to really focus on the housing needs, the transportation needs, making sure that the people in need have the ability to live here, have a place to live, and have a roof over their heads. Councilmember Brun. Councilmember Brun: When you talk about people in need, are you talking about the homeless? What we are doing right now for the church that I go to, every third Sunday, we do Church on the Beach. We feed them and give them clothing or whatever they need. There are a lot of churches out there that are working with the homeless and trying to help the homeless. I just met with the Mayor about that and I am going to be going to O`ahu to see what they are doing. We are working on it and working with faith groups to see what they can do to help because there are COUNCIL MEETING 16 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 a lot of groups that want to help. We are going to do our best to try to not solve the problem, but help with the problem. Council Chair Rapozo: Can I ask you a question? Ms. Cole: Yes. Council Chair Rapozo: Do you have any suggestions of what we could do better for the homeless? Ms. Cole: No. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: People have many needs and it is correct that housing is one of the biggest. We provide housing working through our Housing Agency. The housing at Kalepa Village in Hanamd'ulu. There is new housing right here in Lihu`e called Kaneko`o at Rice Camp, which is for elderly, for your grandmas and grandpas age. In Koloa, we have Pa'anau Village. We create housing. Right in Hanamd'ulu, there is a triangle between Kapule Highway and Kuhio Highway, and that is going to be in its second and third phases, some affordable housing. Then, transportation is also a need, so we have The Kaua`i Bus, which is something where people can get around very cheaply. They do not have to spend a lot of money. How many children use the bus? Great. There are a lot of young people who use the bus, otherwise their parents would have to drive them all around. Thank you for your question. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. DANIEL MORALES: My name is Daniel Morales and I am a Class Representative for Ms. Martin's class of the 4th grade. My question is, can you give homeless people money for food or shelter? Council Chair Rapozo: Can we give homeless people money for food and shelter? The County itself, aside from what we provide to the food bank as far as some funds, we do not have those programs, but the State does, where you have heard of the electronic benefit transfer (EBT) card or housing vouchers. Basically, they go to the State and if they qualify, if they are in need, then they get coupons that they can use for their rent or they get a little credit card or debit card, which they can use for food. So those services are provided. We have Councilmember Kawakami here who just came from State. Maybe he can help me explain better, but basically, the State provides those essential services of housing support and food support, and we provide some of the social support for Kaua`i. Councilmember Kawakami. Councilmember Kawakami: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo, and thank you for the question. I think you hit the nail on the head, but I can tell you what some other counties are doing. For example, Albuquerque. The Mayor of Albuquerque, New Mexico, has an innovative way to provide services, food, and money to the homeless population in New Mexico. What they do is they actually COUNCIL MEETING 17 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 round up these homeless individuals and they put them to work. They put them to work as far as beautification projects and highway clean-ups. They work a full day's work, they get paid for a day's work, and most importantly, they receive a lot of the services that our homeless population needs. That is one (1) of the innovative things that more counties such as Kaua`i County, should look at. There are some roadblocks, but I do not think they are insurmountable. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: The State will give some money for shelter, but if there is not enough units to rent, then people do not have a place to be sheltered in. That is one of our problems, that we do not have enough units or enough houses. That is one of our big goals, to have more housing. Thank you for your question. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Councilmember Chock. Councilmember Chock: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. Representative Morales, are you thinking about what high school you want to go to? Mr. Morales: Kamehameha Schools. Councilmember Chock: Right on. Councilmember Brun: Did you know? Council Chair Rapozo: It must be an inside thing. You must know him. Councilmember Chock: I just wanted to verify. SAMANTHA TOMINAGA: Hi, my name is Samantha Tominaga. My question is, what can we use for gas instead of fossil fuels? Council Chair Rapozo: What kind of gas can we use or fuel aside from fossil fuels? Councilmember Yukimura, it is just a "Yukimura" question. Councilmember Yukimura: Samantha, thank you very much for your question. We could use biodiesel, that is fuel that comes from plants rather than...well, oil comes from plants long ago, but not fossil fuels. We could use hydrogen, which is perhaps the most exciting alternative to oil and it can be made basically from water, but there are some problems technologically that have to be solved first. So we cannot use it. It is not available right now. We could use electricity. We could have electric vehicles. Have you heard of the electric car? We could use electricity. If the electricity is made by fossil fuels, that is not really a non-fossil fuel, but if the electricity is made from the sun, then it is a renewable fuel. The County has a big landfill full of all of our garbage and the landfill gives off methane gas, which if it is allowed to go into the atmosphere, is part of the greenhouse gases that is causing global warming. So if we can recapture the methane gas and COUNCIL MEETING 18 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 use it in our buses, that will also be a way to protect the environment. Thank you for your question that. That was a good question. Ms. Tomigana: Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. KRISTIN FAFORD: Hello my name is Kristin Faford and I am the Student Council Representative for Ms. Bloemke's class in the 5th grade. I wanted to ask you if you agree with President Trump's representation of Christianity. (Councilmember Brun was noted as not present.) Councilmember Chock: Council Chair Rapozo, that is yours. Council Chair Rapozo: I guess I do not understand the question. Which part of his—he has a bunch of policies that people are questioning right now? But as far as it relates to people coming to America or which specific part of Christianity? I want to make sure I answer the right question. Ms. Faford: The part of just representing instead of the way President Obama did when he used to have the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIS) things in the White House and he threw all of that away and put a cross in there. I wanted to ask if you are against that. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay, you are saying that when Mr. Trump went in the White House, he threw away all the references to Christianity and put up one (1) cross? Is that what you are saying? Ms. Faford: Yes. Council Chair Rapozo: I am not aware of what he did or what he did not do. I think it is a personal choice of everyone, what religion they choose to honor or if they do not want to believe in any religion. This is America and that is just what we are made of. For me personally, I think that the reference to Christianity or I will say a higher power, a God, any God, whether it is Buddhist, Judaism, Islam, Christianity, or whatever it is, serves a very important purpose. I think we should all rely on that higher power or higher God, to guide us every day. Again, I do not know exactly what he did when he went to the White House. I kind of listen to some of it and I do not listen to some it because some of it is outrageous. A lot of what we read and hear, too, in the media, may not be accurate and that is where I really have to decide or pick and choose what I listen to and what I believe. That is an interesting question that I will definitely research. I am curious if he did that. I am not saying that you are lying. That is the first time I heard of what he did. That is a great question. I am glad you are thinking about that. I have to say, what we have heard so far, you folks are way advanced in what is going on today. I appreciate all of that. Councilmember Kagawa. COUNCIL MEETING 19 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Councilmember Kagawa: I just wanted to say that I have been really impressed with the questions and I can see how your minds are really thinking about big picture things that adults think about. (Councilmember Brun was noted as present.) Councilmember Kagawa: It is really refreshing and I am really satisfied that our school at Elsie H. Wilcox Elementary School is really doing a great job in preparing you for the future to take over the jobs that we are doing some day. We will be in a much better place because I am so hopeful hearing the kinds of questions you have and seeing your personalities up here. Today is a very happy day for me. Thank you for coming. Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other responses to this young lady's question? It is a great question. Thank you. Ms. Faford: Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: You look a little old to be in elementary school. RONSON SAHUT, Elsie H. Wilcox Elementary School Technology Support Staff: Aloha Councilmembers. My name is Ronson Sahut and I am one of the Advisors of the Student Council. On behalf of Elsie H. Wilcox Elementary School and the Student Council, I would like to thank you for allowing us to come and visit with you. I would also like to apologize to the public and thank them for being so accommodating to us. I know we are holding up the agenda a little bit, but thank you very much. Council Chair Rapozo: Well, there is definitely no apology necessary. I wish more students would do this. We will have St. Theresa School later. There is no better way, in my opinion, for this County to be a better County if we do not get the kids involved. We need them to be involved and we need them to believe that their voice will be heard. We want to make sure that happens. Like I said, this should happen more and whether it is an inconvenience to the public or not, I think it is an important part of what we do and these students need to understand that they have a say in what happens on this island. Thank you. Mr. Sahut: Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kawakami, Councilmember Yukimura, and Councilmember Brun. We will go right down the table. Councilmember Kawakami: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. I want to thank Ms. Elias and Mr. Sahut for doing this. I have to tell you that unfortunately, the State of Hawai`i and the island of Kaua`i has the notoriety of having a horrendous voter turnout. I think what you folks are doing, there is no apologies necessary because bringing civics into the classroom is going to be the path to bumping up our voter turnout. I can guarantee you when I was growing up, we did not have opportunities like this until the very end. I had a teacher at Kaua`i High School, COUNCIL MEETING 20 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Mr. Lane Tokita, that really brought civics into the classroom and even brought us to Washington, D.C. It really began the process of being engaged in what government is all about and our responsibility as people of this wonderful Country to participate in civics. When you take a look at programs like kids voting and you bringing the kids out to our Council Meetings, this is all part of the process that is just going to build a better tomorrow. I want to thank you folks for taking the time and we are willing to delay our agenda because we delay it ourselves all the time. So having you folks come in is not a delay at all. It is really one of the highlights of our day. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: I want to say the same thing, that no apologies are necessary because this kind of thing should be part of our agenda. It is our job to model governance, to reach out, to answer questions, and work with students. That is part of our job and it is so wonderful to see you doing your job, which is teaching civics and government to our young people. That is really important part of education. Councilmember Brun: Again, no apologies are necessary. Do you know what time you folks are going to stay here until today? Mr. Sahut: We were going to leave. Councilmember Brun: Right after this? Mr. Sahut: Yes. Councilmember Brun: Okay. I do not know if you folks are looking at this, but I know at St. Theresa School, next year they will be going to Washington, D.C. Every other year, they take the 7th and 8th graders to Washington, D.C. and it is something that you folks can probably look at. We will be flying out with our kids next year in March. So someday maybe you folks can look at it for Elsie H. Wilcox Elementary School. A week trip to Washington, D.C. would be a lot for these kids also. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Councilmember Chock. Councilmember Chock: Thank you, Mr. Sahut, for bringing your class. In fact, I would request that if there are more ways that we can assist in building future leaders to be more civic-minded, it is definitely a gap that we need to address and we want to be a participant. We need an empowered community. Mahalo. Council Chair Rapozo: Alright. Thank you again. Are you folks going to be hanging out a little bit? Mr. Sahut: I think we will be heading off in a little bit. COUNCIL MEETING 21 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. I am not sure if the letters are ready for the signatures. I just want to make sure we get those two (2) signature from the students. If you folks are leaving like in the next minute or two (2), then I will call for a recess so that we can get everybody out. Mr. Sahut: Whatever would be easiest for you folks. Council Chair Rapozo: Can you hang out for ten (10) minutes? Mr. Sahut: Yes we can. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. We will take our ten (10) minute caption break in ten (10) minutes and then we can take care of the paperwork. Mr. Sahut: Okay. Council Chair Rapozo: Perfect. Mr. Sahut: Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows: Council Chair Rapozo: Can we have the next item, please? CONSENT CALENDAR: C 2017-52 Communication (01/26/2017) from the Mayor, transmitting for Council consideration and confirmation, Mayoral appointee Alfredo C. Garces to the Fire Commission — Partial Term ending 12/31/2018. C 2017-53 Communication (02/01/2017) from the Director of Finance, transmitting for Council information, the Periods 1 through 6 Financial Reports — Detailed Budget Reports, Statements of Revenues (Estimated and Actual), Statements of Expenditures and Encumbrances, and Revenue Reports as of December 31, 2016, pursuant to Section 21 of Ordinance No. B-2016-812, relating to the Operating Budget of the County of Kaua`i for the Fiscal Year 2016-2017. C 2017-54 Communication (02/03/2017) from Councilmember Chock and Councilmember Kawakami, transmitting for Council consideration, a Resolution Requesting The Hawai`i State Legislature To Recognize November 28 As "La Ku`oko`a" In Honor Of The Independence Day Of The Hawaiian Kingdom. Councilmember Chock moved to receive C 2017-52, C 2017-53, and C 2017-54 for the record, seconded by Councilmember Yukimura. COUNCIL MEETING 22 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion? Is there any public testimony? There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony. There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows: The motion to receive C 2017-52, C 2017-53, and C 2017-54 for the record was then put, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1 (Councilmember Kaneshiro was excused). Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item, please. COMMUNICATIONS: C 2017-55 Communication (02/02/2017) from the Salary Commission, transmitting for Council information, the Salary Commission's Resolution No. 2017-1, Relating to the Salaries of Certain Officers and Employees of the County of Kaua`i, which was adopted by the Salary Commission at its January 19, 2017 meeting. • Salary Commission Resolution No. 2017-1 Council Chair Rapozo: Hang on. Before we take the motion, we basically have three (3) options today. If we receive this, it will be approved as written. If we reject in its entirety, then it disappears, but that would require five (5) votes. Keep in mind that we only have six (6) Members today. Lastly, we can reject in part. We went through this exercise last year, and that as well would need five (5) votes. We have to act before March 20th, so are there any questions on the process? Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. I would like to see this matter deferred because I need more information. I wondered if there was any justification sent from the Salary Commission that is not attached to the agenda and I would like to know comparables from other counties and the present salaries and percent increase. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Councilmember Brun, did you have a question? Councilmember Brun: Bob Crowell is outside. Council Chair Rapozo: Well, let me explain why it is even on the agenda, because I think that might help people understand why it is on the agenda. This came on the agenda based on my request. We all went through this last year, not all of you. I think we have two (2) of you who were not here, but last term, the recommendation from the Salary Commission was to award raises to all of the members of the Administration as well as Council Services. I guess we could provide that for the new Members, the last Salary Resolution. Three (3) of the Members of COUNCIL MEETING 23 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 the Council; myself, Councilmember Kagawa, and Councilmember Kuali`i, I believe voted against it simply because we felt the County could not afford the eight hundred thousand dollar ($800,000) increase in salaries. We felt it was not the right time. So in other words, it was killed. The Salary Commission came back with a tiered system that split up the positions in two (2) different tiers for the Council to consider. The Council at the time, approved the top tier,but rejected the bottom tier. In that bottom tier was our County Clerk, our Deputy County Clerk, County Auditor, as well as the Councilmembers. The action of this Council actually denied the raises of the legislative side of government. I did not support any of the raises. I did not think this County was in a fiscal position to grant anybody a raise, but some of the members got significant raises and some of them did not. The ones that did not were from our department, our County Clerk, who I believe should not have been removed from that Salary Resolution. Now, Mr. Crowell is here and I want to make one (1) thing very clear. The position of the Salary Commission was to provide raises for all, not half, not a quarter, all. It was the Council that figured out the only way they would have gotten some of the positions the raises that they felt were deserved was to split it. So half of our Department Heads, the upper half, and then the lower half did not. Again, as you can see, I am getting a little agitated because as I sit and think of what our staff does in our office, our County Clerk that has to keep the record forever for this County, what they do, to be put on that bottom tier was, I believe, not fair. So although I did not support the raises back then, I also do not support inequity in the salaries of our County officials. I asked the Salary Commission, "Please reconsider providing a resolution that would grant these people that were left out during the last resolution, a fair and equitable compensation as was passed by this Council last term." That is why it is on the agenda today. The Salary Commission obliged and that is why it is here today. All of the numbers that they provided during the last term still apply, nothing has changed. This is simply an effort on my part to create fairness and equity throughout our Department Heads. Now it is not fair. Okay, your group got yours and this group did not. It was not right. That is why it is here today. If you folks want a deferral, you can get a deferral. I will support a deferral on one (1) thing, this Salary Resolution that came across, and I sent the letter over to the Salary Commission back in December. Let me just take excerpts. I strongly feel that these positions who make up the legislative branch should not have been included in the lower tier of Department Heads and Deputies that were unfairly denied the justifiable salary increase that was recommended by the Salary Commission back in February 2016. I also asked that the increase for this group of lower tiered people should be retroactive to back when the upper tier got their raise. Why would that not be fair? Why would our leaders here in the legislative branch—I will tell you, and I am not ashamed to say this, if you look at administrative side or the Office of the Mayor and look at the salaries of the Office of the Mayor in compared to salaries of our office, there is a very huge difference. What our Secretary does for the Council Chair—and we share staff here, compared to what they do, it is different. Why is the legislative branch looked at like we should be a lower tier? That is just not right. I asked for it to be retroactive and I appreciate the Salary Commission sending over the new Salary Resolution, which puts the salaries back where it was supposed to be, but it was not made retroactive. Their raises would take part July 1st of the next fiscal year. I will entertain a motion to defer only if we can send a request back to the Salary COUNCIL MEETING 24 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Commission to have it retroactive. I cannot see how that is fair if these people get an entire year that is out of balance. That it is just not fair. Our legislative branch is just as important as the administrative branch, period. Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: We are talking about asking for justification for the pay increases and the Salary Commission back when the upper tier passed by this Council and it passed with three (3) votes. It is a very rare occasion when you will see any measure before this Council pass with three (3) votes. It is normally four (4) votes or more that takes a measure to pass, but the way the Charter is written, three (3) votes gets the salary recommendations passed, and that is what happened. The reason why we; myself, Council Chair Rapozo, I believe Councilmember Hooser, and Councilmember Kuali`i voted against it was not because the increases were not justified by the Salary Commission. We agreed that the increases were necessary in order to avoid salary inversion and what have you where subordinates make much more than the bosses who are calling the shots; however, we felt that the financial situation of this County was in such bad shape we could not approve it knowing that there were so many needs out there and we were willing to risk waiting a year and not approving the pay raises. This is one area where I do not agree how the Charter is written, but it is what it is. With three (3) votes, half of the salary increases were passed. I think we have the information now. The question now is whether we are willing to just agree with all of the recommendations. They put in tons of work. The Charter created them and they are a very capable staff. They came up with the numbers. Now you either accept it or you continue to reject it. I think to piecemeal is not appropriate. That is not the intention of the Charter. I think we should vote. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: First of all, I think the way that the agenda item is written is not sufficiently informative to the public to let them know what is really at stake here because it says it is transmitting for Council information. (Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.) Councilmember Yukimura: But in fact, a vote to receive will be to approve the salaries recommended by the Salary Commission, and the public has not really had a chance to testify on this issue. So one (1) reason for deferral is that they would know what is really at stake and they would be able to testify and come out if they have feelings one way or the other. I think just for that reason alone, we need to defer it. I want to say the financial situation is still bad. We have been briefed individually by the Department of Finance and the Budget Team. It is bad or worse than it was last year, so that has not changed. I agree that the two (2) positions in the list that has been sent to us that are legislative, the County Clerk and the Deputy County Clerk, deserve special attention given in the relationship to work done. (Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present.) Councilmember Yukimura: However, the Salary Commission has not answered the points that I raised in our discussion on the issue. I pointed out that COUNCIL MEETING 25 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 in the second tier, in general, there were no problems of inversion that were really hitting the top tier. Comparables in other counties were quite comparable in the second tier. I was not getting any assurance from the appointing body, which is the Mayor, that the positions that were filled with a competitive process and that they were being reviewed annually as is proper in salary setting. None of this was answered and I hope the Salary Commission has looked into this and has some answers for these points that I raised, which are proper distinctions, I believe, between the first tier and the second tier. Council Chair Rapozo: With that, I am going to take a short recess at this point because I know the students need to leave. This discussion is going to go on for a while. Let us take our ten (10) minute caption break, BC, and then we will go on the stairs outside and take a photograph with the kids during our break. Okay, with that, ten (10) minute caption break. There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 9:35 a.m. The meeting reconvened at 9:50 a.m., and proceeded as follows: Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any further discussion? Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: I would like to make a motion to defer, but I would like to make sure everyone has had a chance to discuss. I strongly feel that although accurate, the posting does not give the public an understanding of what action will be taken because it says "for Council information" and that just for that reason alone, we need to defer it so people know that there is a decision that is going to be made that will have budgetary impacts, and that it is a big policy decision as well, and they can have input. I would even prefer if we actually post a public hearing on it, but at minimum, we should defer it and I think maybe reword it so that people understand what is going to be voted on. Council Chair Rapozo: Well, that is the same posting we use all the time and it is sufficient. Attached to the posting is the Salary Resolution that the public has an opportunity to read, which clearly spells out the numbers. At that point, Councilmember Yukimura, will have an opportunity to make a motion to defer. There will be no discussion after that, so I want to make sure we get all of the discussion in before we entertain that motion. Before we go on, Mr. Crowell is here from the Salary Commission if you have questions. I actually have a question for Mr. Crowell and I am not sure he is able to answer it. If you could come up, I just have one (1) question. I will suspend the rules. There being on objections, the rules were suspended. Council Chair Rapozo: I just want to say that the Salary Commission last year, submitted the resolution that included all of the positions, and it was the Council that, I believe, testified at your meeting and split them up in tiers hopefully with the intent that some of the positions would get the raises, and that is what, in essence, occurred. Mr. Crowell, I did request there it be retroactive. Was there any COUNCIL MEETING 26 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 specific reason why the Commission in their discussion, and I have not read the minutes, chose to start it next fiscal year? If you could please state your name. ROBERT CROWELL, SALARY COMMISSION CHAIR: Bob Crowell, Chair of the Salary Commission. I am not sure we had that much discussion about it. We felt, I believe, that the Council felt that they did not have the ability to pay back in July of 2016. So we felt hopefully they were able to save money or get money so that at least they can put it into action in July of 2017. Council Chair Rapozo: Let me just ask you this, if we were to defer this today and I submitted a follow-up request, as you know, the salaries that are on these resolutions are at the maximum. It is the caps. Mr. Crowell: Correct. Council Chair Rapozo: It is not the actual salaries. Mr. Crowell: Correct. Council Chair Rapozo: Would you be willing to entertain, and I am not asking for commitment of support or not support, but would you entertain a request to have another agenda item? We have until March 30th to take action on this Salary Resolution. I apologize for not being at that last meeting because we had a Council Meeting that day as well. We had Committee Meetings when you had the Salary Commission meeting that dealt with this matter, so I could not attend. Mr. Crowell: Okay. Council Chair Rapozo: I guess for me and I am not sure how the rest of the Councilmembers feel, but I believe should be retroactive and that it should be tied into last group. Would you be willing to entertain a request for some agenda time to discuss that? Mr. Crowell: Sure. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. I appreciate that. Mr. Crowell: I think so. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: If you are going back to the Salary Commission, could you also ask for a discussion on the fact that the second tier, number one, did not have as big or as I recall, any retention—excuse me, reversal. What is that? Inversion problem. Mr. Crowell: Okay. COUNCIL MEETING 27 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Councilmember Yukimura: It did not have an inversion problem. I do not think recruiting or hiring was as difficult as the top tier. I would like to see comparables from other counties because when I looked, there was not that much of a problem either. So maybe if the Salary Commission could at least review that and come back with something in writing to us. Mr. Crowell: Yes, I think we can. Councilmember Yukimura: That would be great. Mr. Crowell: Sure. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you, Mr. Crowell, for being here. Council Chair Rapozo talked about how the Council went to the Salary Commission's meeting and got proposal amended. Can you go back to that and tell me what happened there? I thought the Salary Commission comes up with the recommendation, brings it to the Council, and we vote on it. Mr. Crowell: I think we did, and I think we heard from the Council that not all may have been deserving of getting a higher increase. Councilmember Kagawa: Basically, you heard from three (3) members knowing that three (3) members was all that was needed to get the Salary Resolution passed anyway you folks wanted it? Mr. Crowell: I am not sure we even heard from three (3) Councilmembers. I think we may have heard from two (2). Councilmember Kagawa: Why would you slice it up if you did not know the votes were not there? Mr. Crowell: I cannot recall why it was sliced and how? Councilmember Kagawa: The power rests with you. Mr. Crowell: Right. Councilmember Kagawa: The Salary Commission. That is why the Charter is written like that, where five (5) votes is needed to kill any proposal you folks have. Mr. Crowell: That is correct. Councilmember Kagawa: I cannot go back and figure out how that happened where the Salary Commission sliced it up knowing that three (3) members, a minority number of this Council, wanted it a certain way and it was performed that way. I cannot fathom that rationale. I do not know why the Salary Commission did COUNCIL MEETING 28 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 not just stick to its proposal. The Council has no business telling the Salary Commission how to come up with their justifications. You an able body made of able members, and I cannot fathom how that all happened. That is why we are here today. I do not like arguing about things that we argued about before, but it seems like it was a play and I kind of fault the Salary Commission for that. Council Chair Rapozo: You can respond, if you want to, but I want to make sure we limit this to questions. We will have the opportunity to have discussion. Councilmember Kagawa: Why was it sliced up? Council Chair Rapozo: I think... Mr. Crowell: Okay, can I respond? Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, please. Mr. Crowell: I am not sure exactly. I do not have the recollection of why exactly and who or how it was. But we felt that there was a need for an increase in salaries for the County personnel, Department Heads. The other thing is and I think the County Attorney would have to come up, but my recollection is in our resolutions, you, as a County Council, have the right to pick and choose to deny or approve by line item, our recommendations. If you felt that strongly back at that time and here again, this is a County Attorney thing. I thought you folks had the ability to either approve or reject, by line item, each of these recommendations. Councilmember Kagawa: I guess, I will go back and say that this is the only instance I know where the losing number of Councilmembers wins the game, and that is why I had totally assumed that it would always be rejected because I knew there were four (4) against it. I am still disappointed. I think if the Charter was written that the Salary Commission has the power, then the Salary Commission should stick to entire proposals and not give into single Councilmembers going forward in the future, their request to slice up your thoughts. I think that is micromanaging, to be honest. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions for Mr. Crowell? Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. Council Chair Rapozo: Go ahead. Councilmember Yukimura: In terms of the Councilmembers salaries, which raises are also proposed here, did the Salary Commission take into account that these are generally part-time jobs? Mr. Crowell: Yes. COUNCIL MEETING 29 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Councilmember Yukimura: And they feel that a raise from fifty-six thousand dollars ($56,000) to sixty-three thousand dollars ($63,000) for a part-time job is important? Mr. Crowell: Well, I think we also know it is not that part-time. I think many of you put in many more hours than part-time. I may be wrong. Councilmember Yukimura: What is part-time considered? Twenty (20) hours? Mr. Crowell: There is no specific hours, I think, but I think we know that many of you attend many meetings off-hours. You folks all may have full-time jobs elsewhere, but I think the County Council takes up a big portion of your time, and I think most of the Members feel that way. I am not speaking for all right now, but I believe that is how I feel, that I know you folks spend a lot of time. I know you folks get caught at Times Supermarket and you folks are talking County business because you are Councilmembers. Councilmember Yukimura: I mean, there is an allowance as well, so the sixty three thousand dollars ($63,000) is really a sixty-nine thousand dollar ($69,000) figure. Mr. Crowell: I am not sure. Councilmember Yukimura: With the allowance? Mr. Crowell: Yes, okay with allowances. Councilmember Yukimura: It is almost seventy thousand dollars ($70,000) for a part-time job and you are not defining it whether it is twenty (20) hours or forty (40) hours. Mr. Crowell: I do not think you can. Personally, I do not think you can. I would like to find someone who can define a Councilmember's job in hours. Councilmember Yukimura: Well, you can structure it and say that you cannot have any other job. That would assure it is a full-time job. Mr. Crowell: Yes, well, there again, that is another thing you folks can line item approve or reject. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Well, I would not say this is a part-time job. This is not a part-time job. Mr. Crowell: I agree. COUNCIL MEETING 30 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Council Chair Rapozo: Whether or not some Councilmembers treat it as a part-time job, this is not a part-time job. The Charter says "part-time" because that is how it was written. At the end of the day, this raise for the Council would not affect me because this is my last term, but I will tell you that this is not a part-time job. I have worked full-time jobs in the past, you work forty (40) hours a week at a desk or wherever you work. Yes, it may be considered full-time because you put in the hours, but when you go to the store, when you go to the restaurant, or when you go to the toilet, your phone does not stop. Mr. Crowell: I totally agree. Council Chair Rapozo: 2:00 a.m., 1:00 a.m., 3:00 p.m., 2:00 p.m., discussions, consultations with staff, E-mails to staff. I see Councilmember Yukimura's E-mails get flown around at 2:00 a.m. to 3:00 a.m. The person that is working 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. is not sending E-mails at 2:00 a.m. or 3:00 a.m. He is sleeping. I bring this up because the consensus in many, as I read post comments and blogs, is that we are part-time, like we show up on Wednesdays, we come to this meeting, we have some discussion, and we vote. That is what the perception is. My calendar is public record. If anyone wants to look at my calendar or any one of our calendars, go ahead. This is not a part-time job and shame on anyone who treats it as a part-time job, but that is their prerogative. I will say this, you can get by showing up on Wednesdays, but you are not going to last long over here. Those people weed themselves out. Anyone on this table, I can tell you and I can speak for everyone at it table, it is not a part-time job for any one of us. That I know. Are there any questions for Mr. Crowell? Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: I do want to say Council Chair Rapozo's job, because it involves a lot of administrative oversight and actions that, I think, is a full-time job. Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions for Mr. Crowell? If not, thank you very much. Mr. Crowell: Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: I do want to welcome the St. Theresa School students who just walked in. We will address you folks in a short while. Thank you for being quiet. I did not even notice you folks walking in. Are there any other questions for the Administration? The rules are still suspended. Let me ask for public testimony at this point. Is there anyone wishing to testify? Mr. Mickens. GLENN MICKENS: For the record, Glenn Mickens. Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. First as Councilmember Kagawa has pointed out many times, we are broke. I do not think it is the time for anybody to get a raise for anything, no matter what deserving or what has happened in past. Right now, you mentioned the fact that we do not have the money to give the raises. Number two, the other issue is about you Councilmembers, I think it should be full-time jobs. I was talking to Councilmember Yukimura about this. The time you folks put in is a lot more than like, Council Chair Rapozo said, you come here on Wednesday, but go look at your COUNCIL MEETING 31 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 calendar and how many people you interview all weeklong or people who are coming to see you over and over. All of you are doing the same thing. You take a look at that agenda, that agenda has so many important items on it that it takes a lot of time. I can believe that. I get the agenda every week, look at that, and I pick out one (1) or two (2) items. You have to go through all of these and they are important to the people and things that have to be taken care of. So I would say Hey, you folks, whether part-time salary and again, they have not said what "part-time" happens to be twenty (20) hours? Forty (40) hours? But you are putting in a lot more time than part-time. I am just saying to make it equitable, being a Councilmember should be full-time job with a full-time salary, whatever it is. But at this stage of the game, I would highly recommend against no raises for anybody, whether it is Administration or the other side of this or not. Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Anyone else wishing to testify? Ms. Parker. ALICE PARKER: Alice Parker for the record. Council Chair Rapozo, you said it well, full-time job for part-time pay. We really appreciate all that you folks do. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you, Ms. Parker. Is there anyone else wishing to testify? If not, I will call the meeting back to order. There being on further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows: Council Chair Rapozo: Is there further discussion? Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you. I would like to welcome St. Theresa School students who are here. Thank you for coming. The weirdest part about the whole salary issue is that where do you have the body voting for its own salary? It does not make sense, but I think when you look at why the Salary Commission was created, it was to take the Council out of the picture. If you look at this issue as why it was created the way it was created and written by the Charter the way it was written whereby you needed five (5) votes to kill any idea that the Salary Commission had, it really showed strength in relying on the abilities of the Salary Commission to come up with something that was best for the people of Kaua`i. It was not meant for this Council to go and chop up every bit of work that it could of the Salary Commission with a minority of three (3) votes. I think that is like playing the system in the way that it is not meant to be played, really. We either change the Charter if we do not like what the Salary Commission is doing and was created to do or we accept, as a whole, their recommendations or deny it. If the County is too financially strapped, you deny it. In this case, Glenn, it is hard to agree with you that the County is broke to give the pay raises. We gave half of it already. What about the other half? Again, that is exactly, I think, what is not the intent of the County Charter, to chop up the work of the Salary Commission. The Salary Commission was created to come up with a structure that was fair for all Department Heads. That was why the sole main purpose of the Salary Commission was, to establish a fair COUNCIL MEETING 32 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 process to create Department Heads' salaries that are appointed. Every election year, they may change. I am going to be supporting the receipt of this item. I just want to put this item to rest. I did not like how it was played last year and I do not like the result that it came up with, but now, I just want to put it to rest, accept their work, and we just have to bite bullet in next budget. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Brun and then Councilmember Chock. (Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.) Councilmember Brun: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. Looking at this, I was not here when it was voted on. I was watching it, but I do not agree that we chopped it in half and it does not even look like in half. From what we were listening to, they did not have trouble filling positions, so money was not an issue, but we still went ahead and approved a lot of it and not approved some of it. As far as our staff here, our County Clerk and Deputy County Clerk, I am just in shock we would not approve theirs. I have been here three (3) months. These people work. These people are fantastic. They make us look if we do look good. They do a lot of work and they work really hard. I just do not understand how we can approve...we had the Mayor, Managing Director, County Attorney, and County Prosecutor, which we vote for anyway. So it is not that we are having a hard time filling that position, and we could not even do our own staff. I think that is confusing and I just do not agree. For me, if we are going to reject this, the only way I am going reject if we are going make sure they are paid retroactive to July 1st or whenever it was. That is the only way I will support a rejection. (Councilmember Kagawa was note as present.) Councilmember Brun: If not, we need to get it approved, get it done, and move on. These people work. Other positions are all appointed anyway, so it is not that you have to be highly qualified for that position. You can just be appointed. I just do not agree that we chopped in half or however we did, and I just think we need to get it done like Councilmember Kagawa said, and just move on, get it approved, and let us get it retroactive if we can, for the County Clerk. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Chock. Councilmember Chock: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. I want to speak to some of the issues with this section of the Charter, in my opinion. One thing first upfront is just because you can does not mean you should. We have been talking around the table for years about the budget and the place that we are with this budget. My understanding is that this Charter is set so that the Salary Commission sets limits of these salaries. That means that the Administration has every right and ability to actually figure out what we can afford. Even though it is agreed upon by everyone that they should get the raises, if we cannot afford it, then we just cannot afford it and we should act accordingly. That is the fiscally responsible thing to do. That is not the job of the Salary Commission. The job of the Salary Commission is to say, "This is where it should be" and for us to say whether we agree with it or not. So COUNCIL MEETING 33 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 that is what is happening. The problem is what is happening is we are getting these recommendations and then next budget, boom, all of them are raised right to the limits. That is the issue. Now if we were looking at that and we were tracking it properly, looking at who should get it and why—on their side, not our side because that is not our kuleana, then this would not come up. We would not be in this position to do this. Now, this is being used as a tool to limit and it should not be. The other thing with this is I do not know where else in the world you can go and give yourself a raise. Please. We are government, we are public servants, and we are giving ourselves a raise? The last time I could not deal with. I still cannot deal with it, and I am going to tell you right now, what happened the last time is that they maneuvered around me because I could not vote for the Council. So maybe that is why it came back in tiers. I do not know. I do not know where that influence came from. I am in the same place and until the request that I made, and I did make those requests for our Charter to be changed so that Councilmembers are not on this, I cannot vote on the Salary Resolution. It is plain and simple. We will see what happens. I think this can get passed this time, and likely, they should. I was in support of moving people forward that I could vote for. The problem is that the list came to up the way it came. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: I do not think it would be advisable to receive this today and to finalize the decision because even though we have posted it this way before, I do not think we have received it on the day that it was first posted. I think if I bring this to the Office of Information Practices (OIP), they will say that it does not reflect the actual decision being made. I think we should defer it, but also, people are talking about retroactivity and the importance of that. If we receive it today, that will also end the possibility to get something back from the Salary Commission on this particular docket. I think it has been the credibility of the Administration in using the Salary Resolution that is at stake. As Councilmember Chock said, as soon as we set the highest salary, that is what the Department Heads all get. There is not any attention to proper salary-setting, length of service, and experience and qualifications. There was not a willingness on the part of the Mayor to make the positions competitive when they are vacant, that is to advertise that the position is open to solicit applications to go through vetting process so we can be sure that we get the very best Department Head possible. When there is not that kind of professional recruitment and personnel management on the part of the Mayor, that really makes it difficult for us to set the top salary because then it is not used as the top salary. It is used to give his Department Heads, many who are politically appointed, the highest salary possible. Until I hear some kind of commitment to do a professional recruitment and management, it is very hard for me to just go for these salary proposals when from the standpoint of inversion, that is whether lower employees are higher in terms of recruitment, are we having difficulty recruiting? We were having difficulty recruiting in the top tier, County Engineer, for example, but I do not know that we have any problems recruiting in this second tier. In terms of comparables with other counties, to me, there is no rationale, really, to set the salaries higher, except I do believe there is on the issue of the County Clerk and the Deputy County Clerk, I am not opposed to reconsidering that in really looking at issues surrounding that. COUNCIL MEETING 34 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else? Councilmember Kawakami. Councilmember Kawakami: I guess for my own personal edification, I would like to try to figure out the rational nexus of how this split came to be. Right now just looking at it as a newcomer, I do not understand the logic of how this thing was cut with tier 1 and tier 2. I guess maybe the minutes will reveal some of what I need to learn about it, but I just hope when we look at salaries, that we have the ability to separate the individual from the position. I say that because in all honesty, I have seen where there is an inability to separate the person that is in the position from the position itself. When that happens, we have decisions that are politically motivated and it can taint the whole process. I look forward to looking at the minutes, maybe if Councilmembers can reveal what the history as far as the split. It would help me in my decision-making process. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: I can explain to some extent, probably not as good as how the minutes will explain it, but it is very clear that the personalities were part of the decision-making. The individuals in the positions were part of the discussion and part of the decision-making. I agree with you, Councilmember Kawakami, that it should not be. The Salary Commission cares nothing about John Doe, Jane Doe, or Mary Doe. They look at the position, qualifications, tasks, and educational requirements and they come up with a salary cap that we should consider. They do not look at who is in this position, should that person get a raise. No. It is the position. The process is not flawed. When it got to this table, I will tell you what happened, you can read the minutes and you will see, it became about specific individuals about how that person was hired. Did you post? Did you do an interview? Did you do this? It became that. It really took us away from the fact that these are positions, not people. I will reiterate what I said in Councilmember Kagawa's opening comments said that it was not about whether or not these positions deserved the increases, it was simply could we afford it at that time? Now, it did not pass. This did not have the sufficient votes to pass and that is why the splitting occurred. Do you know the old saying, "Half of something is better than all of nothing?" That is what happened. That is the reality. It was better. They knew they could get the support on certain votes, and I am not talking about the Salary Commission, I am talking about the Council, that they would go at least get some. I think Councilmember Chock talked about and I forget the word he used. I do not know if it was manipulate, circumvent, or whatever it was. Councilmember Chock: Influenced. Council Chair Rapozo: Influenced. He is in a position, "Wow, how did that happen" and that is what happened, Councilmember Kawakami, as opposed to looking at the Charter and what the Charter's function was. Three (3) people in this process, the only process as Councilmember Kagawa has said, three (3) votes passes the Salary Resolution. Three (3) people because you need five (5) to reject it. So as long as three (3) people do not vote to reject, the Salary Resolution passes. But that was because when the Charter was written, it was their thought that if they cannot get five (5) people, the supermajority, to vote against it, then the Salary Commission's recommendations should pass. Take the so-called "politics" out of it. I also do not think that we should have gone back and given a second chance or a third chance. I COUNCIL MEETING 35 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 think it comes up, recommendation, the Salary Commission doing their homework and again, I am really impressed with what they have done, the studies, and analytical details that you went through. We come here and we can say, "Hey, do you know what? This position, we do not believe that position is"...not people. Position. Like the Councilmembers. There was a time that we never a say in the Council's raise. There was a time where the Salary Commission set the Council's salaries. We could not reject or accept, and that was changed. I am asking Jade to look when that was changed. It should go back to that. This body should not vote on our raises. Oh, my gosh. It puts us in an awkward position because we have that today. It is not like it used to be. So we have to make a decision on whether or not we believe, and it is easy for me because I am not coming back next year, to say, "Yes, Council does deserve this." But if I was coming back for a new term next year, it would be very difficult to vote for my own raise. The fact of the matter and I stated earlier, for me today, it is not about what the Salary Commission studies, they already did that last term. I have read all of that already. I have accepted what they said, simply back in 2016, myself and I think a couple of the other Councilmembers said that we could not afford that raise. It amounted to a lot of money in a time where we were concerned about revenues. Today, for me, it is very simple. It is fairness and equity. That is all it is. I mean, twenty-one (21) people got raises. Twenty-one (21) and nine (9) did not. I am not talking about Council. I am just talking about administrative positions and Department Heads. The nine (9) positions, unfortunately, includes everyone from our side of the aisle. Just for your information, the retroactive, and I am not sure what I want to do because I am in that boat where I hate to send it back and lose the momentum in getting this passed. But I am thinking we could still pass this today and to ask for the consideration of the Salary Commission to at least look at the retroactive portion. I am going to ask the County Attorney to come up real briefly. The retroactive pay to bring the parity back to these nine (9) positions would amount to ninety-three thousand dollars ($93,000). I do not know how you tell a select group of individuals and say, "Sorry. Do you know what? You folks are going to get lunch today, and you will not, just because." That is kind of what happened last year. I cannot sit here and say what was the rationale? As Councilmember Kawakami kind of alluded to that, what is the rationale for taking our staff out of this equation? How did that happen? I think our County Clerk and Deputy County Clerk work harder than pretty much anyone else. Look at their calendars and phone logs. I am going ask the County Attorney to come up because I want to ask him a question of what we can and cannot do as far as this Salary Resolution. Councilmember Yukimura, did you have something to add? Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. The implication that was on this Council, we make decisions by people or by individuals. That is not true at all. The salary-setting process is a two-step process. One is set by the Salary Commission, who sets the top salaries. The second process is by the Mayor and the appointing bodies that decide, first of all, how they select the people to fill the department positions and secondly, how they manage that or set the salaries based on individuals. What the Council was asking the Mayor was what the process by which you do that is. Do you go for a competitive process that solicits the best candidates? Do you set the salaries within the top-range based on evaluations, longevity, and all of that? It COUNCIL MEETING 36 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 was the second process which was not well-subscribed to, if you will, and the Mayor said he was not committed to a competitive process to hire people. That makes the whole process difficult because if we approve a top salary and the Mayor just goes to the top salary no matter who is in the position, no matter what their experience and credentials are, or no matter what their length of service, then it really distorts the whole system and makes it more difficult to keep setting that top salary because it becomes the bottom and the top. So it was an attention to process that some of us were looking at and I think we did so in the public interest. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: Can I ask Councilmember Yukimura a question? Council Chair Rapozo: Sure. Councilmember Kagawa: On a controversial vote such as this where it impacts our budget and impacts salaries, which is the primary reason why our budget is in trouble, what does a 3:4 vote mean to you? I mean, on such an important issue to win a decision like that on a minority vote, what does that mean to you? Councilmember Yukimura: Well, the reason I voted for the top tier is because there was such terrible inversion. There were people that were below the Chief of Police, for example, who were making ten thousand dollars ($10,000) to twenty thousand dollars ($20,000) more than the Chief of Police, making it hard to recruit for the Chief of Police and the Deputy Police Chief, and because the comparables statewide were showing that an increase was deserved, and because we knew that recruitment, for example, for a County Engineer, was extremely difficult at the level that we had set because the private sector were paying people of the ability and credentials that we needed for County Engineer at a much higher level. So people were not interested in the County Engineer job. I think there was a lot of reason to approve the top tier. The reason I rejected the bottom tier is because those three (3) issues; retention, inversion, and comparables, were not at play in the bottom tier. They were quite comparable and so forth. The reason why a supermajority is in the Charter is because the voters of Kaua`i voted for that, that a lot of times it is based on popular understanding that executive salaries are not raised. So you get more and more inversion. Therefore, the Charter puts a priority on the Salary Commission's decision. You have to have a supermajority to reject it, and I believe that is appropriate. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. I do not know if that answered your question. Councilmember Kagawa: That did not answer my question, but that is okay. Council Chair Rapozo: It was a great explanation. Councilmember Brun. COUNCIL MEETING 37 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 (Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.) Councilmember Brun: Thank you. Again, I am going to use the Chief of Police because it was brought up, if some people reporting to him are making more than him, maybe we should look at how we control our budget and the overtime, that is why he is making more than the Chief of Police. Maybe we should look at all of that, before we... Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Councilmember Brun: ...are bringing up all of that. Council Chair Rapozo: We are going to have that opportunity in the next few weeks when we get to budget, but right now, we are not talking about the rank and file. We are talking about the Department Heads. The tier system, right now, if you look Countywide, we have of a County Engineer's position that is vacant because we cannot hire or we choose not to hire. If you look at the tiered system from last year, it was not even tier 1. That was tier 2. So I mean, what? We need help getting an engineer, but that did not even rise to the leveling of tier 1. The tier 1 was Mayor, Managing Director, and Police and Fire Chiefs. These people are elected. The Mayor is elected. The Managing Director is appointed. The Chief of Police and the Fire Chief are appointed by Commissions. The County Engineer is a very technical position that requires licensing and that never made tier 1. I am not going to... Councilmember Yukimura: Excuse me. Council Chair Rapozo: Excuse me what? Councilmember Yukimura: Was it not in tier 1? Council Chair Rapozo: That is my point. Councilmember Yukimura: No, I am sure it was in tier 1. Council Chair Rapozo: Well, Councilmember Yukimura, it is tier 2. Councilmember Yukimura: County Engineer...can we get our staff to show us what was passed? Council Chair Rapozo: I am going suspend the rules. Go ahead and ask the staff. There being no objections, the rules were suspended. Council Chair Rapozo: I want to ask a couple of questions. I do not know if Wally is still here. While you are here Matt, the Salary Resolution has an effective date on it. I think I know the answer, but I want to just make sure I cover all the bases here. COUNCIL MEETING 38 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 (Councilmember Kawakami was noted as not present.) Council Chair Rapozo: I am getting frustrated, Councilmember Yukimura. You have spent a lot of time talking about the tiers and you are not familiar with what the tiers are. On the Salary Resolution, there is an effective date of July 1, 2017. Our duty or our authority is we can accept or reject any part of that. What happens if we reject the effective date? I do not want you to guess. I do not expect you to know that. I am trying to figure out if we can move it through today, we will move it through. I am not so sure that Section 1...I do not know if we reject the effective date, it will not allow us to retroactive anyway, right? This is not an amendment of the last Salary Resolution. This is a new Salary Resolution. Again, I think I know the answer, but let me just ask you this real simple question, if we reject "effective July 1, 2017," the maximum salaries, I would assume in effect that would remove the entire section. MATTHEW M. BRACKEN, First Deputy County Attorney: Matt Bracken, First Deputy County Attorney. Procedurally, it would be possible and the intent would be to make it retroactive. Procedurally, it would be possible to make it retroactive. I would not advise rejecting that specific portion. You can go line by line and reject specific salary increases, but rejecting the effective date, I think procedurally, the proper way to do it would be to have the Salary Commission send over another resolution essentially amending it. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Mr. Bracken: The Salary Commission does have authority and could make a retroactive resolution that could allow that, but I would not recommend it. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay, good. Thank you. Are there any more questions? Again, I did not think it was possible. Thank you, Matt. Mr. Bracken: Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Wally, I just have one (1) question. I hope you know the answer to this, but I think it is important... WALLACE G. REZENTES, JR., Managing Director: Good morning, for the record, Wally Rezentes, Jr., Managing Director. Council Chair Rapozo: Wally, there was a lot of discussion, even the last time we went around last year, that although the Salary Commission sets the cap, that all of these raises will be granted and everybody will jump to the cap. We had twenty-one (21) positions that were approved on the last Salary Resolution. Do you know how many of the twenty-one (21)positions where the salaries were adjusted to the cap? Mr. Rezentes: I am not one hundred percent (100%) sure. COUNCIL MEETING 39 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Council Chair Rapozo: Okay, then do not answer, but I would ask that somebody check. Mr. Rezentes: Yes. Council Chair Rapozo: Can somebody check, call the Department of Human Resources (HR), payroll, or whoever? I just want to know, out of the twenty-one (21) positions that were approved in 2016, how many of those positions were adjusted to the cap because I think that is important? Thank you. Hang on, Wally. Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: I would also like know from the Mayor that if these positions below us are approved, whether he is going to set them at the cap? Council Chair Rapozo: I do not know if that is a valid question. I think... Councilmember Yukimura: Why not? Council Chair Rapozo: Are you going to ask Wally to ask the Mayor? Councilmember Yukimura: Correct. I want information from the Administration. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Councilmember Yukimura: I have already asked the Mayor, but I want it in writing. Council Chair Rapozo: Well, I will tell you that Director of Liquor Control is not appointed by the Mayor. Councilmember Yukimura: I know. Council Chair Rapozo: The County Clerk is not appointed by the Mayor, the Deputy County Clerk is not appointed by the Mayor, and the County Auditor is not appointed by the Mayor. So you are just talking about a few? Councilmember Yukimura: Correct, the ones that the Mayor does appoint. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. We will send it over in writing. Are there any more questions for Wally? Thank you. There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows: Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa. COUNCIL MEETING 40 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Councilmember Kagawa moved to receive C 2017-55 for the record, seconded by Councilmember Brun. Council Chair Rapozo: Moved and seconded. The motion is to receive. What the Mayor does, we may not agree with. If the Mayor wants to give a person a raise, he will give that person a raise. We vote in the Mayor's raise, but we do not control what the Mayor does. The Mayor answers to the public. If he wants to give a Department Head the uppermost salary of the cap, that is his prerogative. What if he comes back and said, "Yes, I am going to give my Department Head the cap?" Again, it is because of personalities. You cannot say that it is not. The Director of Economic Development, the Director of Parks & Recreation, the Deputy Director of Parks & Recreation, the Director of the Housing Agency, and the Boards & Commissions Administrator, which is five (5) positions, if we are following what the Charter says, we are relying on the work that the Salary Commission has done. They believe this position, not the person, this position should be paid at a cap of this much. It should not matter who is in there. Why would you ask the Mayor, "Oh, are you going to give that person a raise? If you are, I am not supporting the Salary Resolution." Then it becomes personal. Does the Director of Economic Development, whoever it may be, or the Director of the Housing Agency, or the Director of Parks & Recreation, or the Boards & Commissions Administrator, does that position deserve that cap? If you believe Mayor, that they do, if the appointing authorities believe— like I do not think the Mayor should come and say, "Your County Clerk does not deserve that." It is none of your business, Mayor, neither is it my business what you pay the Director of Economic Development or the Director of the Housing Agency. I can voice my concern, but at the end of the day, that is his call. I heard from Mr. Crowell that they would entertain an agenda item that would do the retroactive pay. I will be supporting the motion to receive today so at least we get these numbers approved, and then I still would ask Mr. Crowell and I will would follow-up with a formal letter again, that we at least reconsider the retroactive pay because I do believe that we should be fair and equitable. The tiered system, how can you say one person is higher tiered than another in an administrative department head role? Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: We heard Councilmember Kawakami say that he wanted to look at the minutes and as a new Councilmember, wanted to get more information. We have always tried to help and assist new Members, if they wanted more time and more information. We have sixty (60) days to make this determination. I have also said that I wanted more information. I am not sure why we are ramrodding this thing through right now and not giving time. Then as to positions, as I explained, the salary-setting is a two-part process. The first one is the Salary Commission which sets the highest level of compensation for the position. (Councilmember Kawakami was noted as present.) Councilmember Yukimura: The second process is when the Mayor or the other appointing bodies, whether it is the Planning Commission, the Fire Commission, or the Civil Service Commission sets for their employees where, based on the individual, it should be. If the Mayor says, "I am going set everything at the top level," it is showing that he is not really doing the process. I think the process is COUNCIL MEETING 41 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 important if we are trying to get the very best people to run the County, and we have seen what happens when we do not get the very best. We have huge cost overruns. We have penalties. We have problems, costs that waste, and errors. So that is why it is so important to have good process. It is this Council's job to vote according to whatever information, action, and performance we see. So, I do not think there should be any hesitation to give more time for this issue. Furthermore, the fact that this communication says it is for information only, it does not say that salaries by receipt of the Council will be set, I think that is a violation of the Sunshine Law, and if this Salary Resolution passes today, I will be going to OIP for an opinion. If it is not proper, then it will invalidate our decision. Council Chair Rapozo: A couple of things, this is the same posting we used the last time, which I did not hear my complaints from Councilmember Yukimura. Number two, OIP's ruling does not automatically reject the action that was taken. Make sure that if you are going to make comments up here, make sure they are accurate because a lot of people are going to repeat what we say today. This posting was the same posting we have used whenever we got a Salary Commission Resolution come to this body. Go ahead. Councilmember Yukimura: Council Chair Rapozo, I have said that we have never just received it or acted on the issue on the day that it was first posted. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay, and... Councilmember Yukimura: In our discussions, we at least notice the public that there is an issue here, there is an important vote, and they can come and testify at a subsequent one. But if we just vote on it and end the decision-making today, I believe it is a violation. I am not concerned about the technicality of the issue of the Sunshine Law. It is the intent and spirit of the Sunshine Law, that people know what is going to happen on the agenda and they are able to come and testify or give input. That is the spirit that I am talking about. We are not giving people the time to do that and we have a lot of time to do that, so I think we need to defer this matter. Council Chair Rapozo: This Resolution, should it pass today, is not in effect until July 1st of next year. This matter was thoroughly discussed last year; all of the facts, all of the numbers, all of it. The fact that Councilmember Yukimura is not happy with this Salary Resolution, now it is a problem with the Sunshine Law. Last year when she got what she wanted, it was never a problem with the Sunshine Law. But today, and I do not know how the vote is going to turn out. The other thing is Councilmember Kawakami, and he is here, what he said was "I would like to see the minutes unless Councilmembers that were here can basically inform the public and himself what has occurred." I do not know Councilmember Kawakami wants a deferral or not. My point is this, this is not about the positions or the people. Again, Councilmember Yukimura addressed penalties and fines. It is talking about certain people, not position. She cannot get away from that. The fact is, this Salary Resolution is an attempt to bring fairness and equity to the structure, the payroll structure or the salary structure of this County, whether I agree or disagree. Again, I did not support this last time, but nor do I support an inequity in our structure. If COUNCIL MEETING 42 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 you have two (2) flat tires and you cannot only change one. You have to change two (2). That is where I am at. I am not happy about this. I am very frustrated that County Clerk, Deputy County Clerk, and County Auditor were left out. But if everyone has gotten left out, I would feel fine today, and even they would admit that we cannot afford to pay the raises. But is it fair that the Mayor's side of the house gets all the raise and the Council side does not? Is that fair? That is not fair. This is an attempt to bring fairness and equity. That is all this is, without going into the discussion we had a year ago. Councilmember Brun. Councilmember Brun: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. To be clear, if they came across two (2) years ago, I would not have supported it. Nobody would have gotten it. But since we did some and not all and knowing that some of the ones that we did not do, deserves it, I just think we should be fair for everybody and give it to everybody. The one thing that I am kind of struggling with is giving ourselves a raise. We might not be here in two (2) years because it will not go into effect until after the next election. That is the one that I kind of struggle with. As far as being a part-time job as a Councilmember, as far as the Council Chair, and if we get our next Council Chair as Council Chair Rapozo has been, he puts in the time. I can tell you that. I promise you he puts in a lot of time and it is not a part-time job for him. I have been on for three (3) months and you ask my daughter, it is not a part-time job. I put in a lot of time. I come home late at night. So we do put in a lot of time, but that is one that I am struggling with, giving ourselves raises, but it is part of the deal. I think we should be fair to everybody else, especially our staff. If we could, let us give our whole staff a raise because they deserve it. They work hard. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura and then Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Yukimura: No, I will go after him. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa Councilmember Kagawa: I kind of take offense to Councilmember Yukimura alleging that we are ramrodding this Salary Commission Resolution. The ramrodding actually occurred when they did not accept the Council's decision when we rejected all of the salaries due to financial constraints of the County. Instead, they went and got the Salary Commission to go and chop it up so it fit three (3) of their preferences. To know that the rules allowed them on only this issue to pass with a minority vote, I would think...actually, we are the ones that got fooled today. We, that are sitting here, got duped and we got played by not only Councilmember Yukimura and her group of three (3), but we got outplayed by the Administration because they wanted their salaries increased so they got their influence on the Salary Commission, which was not supposed to have happened. The Salary Commission was set up to recommend all of the salaries in a fair process that kept all of the politics out of it with an able-bodied board to make that decision across the board, not to be played politically, and that is exactly what had happened. I am upset about it, I think we got played, and I think the wrong person is crying foul. Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. COUNCIL MEETING 43 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura moved to defer C 2017-55. Councilmember Yukimura: Can I get a second? Council Chair Rapozo: The second will end all discussion, Councilmember Yukimura, you know that and we are still having discussion. Councilmember Kawakami wants to speak. I am not going to entertain a motion to defer at this time because it is going to stop Councilmember Kawakami from sharing his comments. Councilmember Kawakami. Ms. Parker: Could I do a point of order? Council Chair Rapozo: No you cannot. I am sorry. Ms. Parker: OIP, what does it mean? Council Chair Rapozo: I am sorry, Office of Information Practices. They are the agency that regulates the Sunshine Law. Thank you, Alice. You got your point of order. Councilmember Kawakami. Councilmember Kawakami: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. I think based on the discussion and from the information that I was able to gather during my short little exit from the Council Chambers, I was been able to get enough information to get a vote. There is a renowned hip-hop artist that mentioned "do not hate the player, hate the game." I think there is a lot of conflict and friction, but I think it is due to the blueprint that we operate on. It takes a supermajority of five (5) votes to reject the Salary Commission's work. In essence, yes, three (3) can overturn that and pass whatever amendment they want to. Now, if we fundamentally find the problem with that, and I do, philosophically, I have a problem with it. There is a process to going about changing the rule that we operate on, and it is through a Charter amendment. There are many ways we can cut this Salary Resolution up. One, we could just require that a majority of the Council approve the Salary Commission's work. If we do not want to do that, we can decide to choose that it requires a majority or supermajority to any amendment that is proposed by the Council. But I do not think that we should necessarily be upset about the process because the process is the process. It is laid out. It was voted on by the voters and it is what it is, but we can always make changes. I think it is time we take a serious look and maybe propose to the Charter Commission or we could even start up the initiative on our end. I think it is valid. I think that this whole process and discussion has really bubbled to the surface, the fundamental issue and flaw that we need to address. All things aside, I think I have got enough information as to why the different tiers were proposed. I am not going to argue with the merit. I am not going to argue about the intent, but I will say that I am willing and able to move forward based on the information that I was able to gather. Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any other discussion? Councilmember Yukimura. COUNCIL MEETING 44 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Councilmember Yukimura moved to reject the salaries of the Council Chair and Councilmembers, seconded by Councilmember Chock. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura, do you have any comments to that? Councilmember Yukimura: Well, I think we need a request for information from our staff. I believe it will take five (5) votes to take it off. Council Chair Rapozo: Correct. Councilmember Yukimura: But just with that verification, then my motion stands. Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any further discussion? Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: I really think that the Salary Commission did their work and they evaluate everyone. Yes, I feel terrible about the process that the Council should be even voting on their own salaries. That has to be a mistake somewhere. The system is what it is. Again, I think with this amendment, you are going down the same road. For Councilmember Yukimura, perhaps her financial situation coming into the Council does not need this kind of salary and maybe it does not need any salary. But there are many people out there in the public that will look to run in two (2) years that will look at the salary amount. People are struggling out there and not only people in the lower class. People in the middle class are really struggling. There are a lot of great candidates out there and believe it or not, the salary by increasing it, I think, will attract a lot more capable candidates out there. If that is what it takes to get candidates out here to solve these problems that this County is facing, then I am all for it because I will tell you, I think this job is too important to be played politically and say, "Well, I do not need it, so nobody should get it, and that will win me a lot of votes." I do not look at that issue in that fashion. I think that if a better salary will attract better candidates, I am all for it. The Salary Commission did the work. I am not going to micromanage their work and do the same thing what they did last year, pull out to micromanage what they did. I think is wrong. Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Chock. Councilmember Chock: I just want to clarify my position. I think this Council deserves the raise, honestly. I think it is a full-time job. This is not about what I want. It is not about what I think is right. This is about, on principle, the fact this body determines its own raise and for me, I cannot move on that. I will vote on anything that this body puts forward on this today now. I do not need to defer it. But I will not vote for the remaining list if the Council is on it. It is really clear and simple for me. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura. COUNCIL MEETING 45 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Councilmember Yukimura: I do not have a dog in this fight. I also term-out, so it is not about me. I have most of my ten (10) or eleven (11) terms on the Council, served at a salary of twenty-seven thousand dollars ($27,000), which was most of it until it was changed a few years ago. So we can reject these salary increases and put forth a Charter amendment so that by the next election, people can choose to have the salaries set just by the Salary Commission and not have the Council set its own salary. That is why I am proposing this, so that we have some time to change the system. Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other comments? Just want to read one very important sentence in this Salary Resolution. It is a lot easier for me to discuss this item today because like Councilmember Yukimura, we both term-out, so we will not be here next year. This does not benefit either of us. Councilmember Chock admitted that this is a full-time job. I do not think anyone on this table treats this as a part-time job. Everyone here is really a full-time job. It may not be a convention forty (40) hours a week, but it may be twenty-five (25) hours this week and one hundred (100) hours next week. At the end of the day, a lot of our time is spent on this job. In Section 2, "Elected officers may voluntarily accept a salary lower than the maximum salary established by this Resolution for their position or may voluntarily forego accepting a salary." So the fact it says Councilmember sixty-three thousand one hundred forty-three dollars ($63,140) and you believe you do not want to take sixty-three thousand one hundred forty-three dollars ($63,140), then you let the Administration know, "Hey, I do not want the increase next term. If I get elected I will just stick with what I had last term," if you feel that strongly. I think Councilmember Kagawa brings up a very good point, that there are people out there today that would make very good Councilmembers and they will not run because it is a financial difficulty or cause a financial issue. They may have to quit their job. We are losing out on that whole segment of the population that could, in fact, do a lot of good for this community. If you think it is too much, just give it back. Just call them up and say, "If I get elected next time, I do not want the increase. Just take the extras and I will just take what I had last term." But I am exactly where Councilmember Chock was last time because there was a future potential extra term for me and it is very difficult to sit here and tell the public, "Yes, I am voting for a raise for myself." Just understand that even if this goes through today, next year, if you get elected again, you can tell them to keep the raise and that you do not want it. I, too, was twenty-seven thousand dollars ($27,000) a year. It was tough. I still have another full-time job. I have two (2) jobs, in fact, three (3) because it is tough to live here. I understand the concerns, but I think we have to make the decision for what is best for the entire County. Take out the names. It is not Mason Chock, Mel Rapozo, Derek Kawakami, JoAnn Yukimura, Arthur Brun, or Ross Kagawa in that line. It says, "Councilmember" and "Council Chair." Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: I do not think given the number of people running for office, that there is a lack or that the salary is stopping people from running for office. I think actually, that it is other factors that make it difficult to run for office. I think the salary should be set professionally and they should not be approved or rejected by the Council. COUNCIL MEETING 46 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Council Chair Rapozo: I agree. I would suggest we start working on that Charter amendment as Councilmember Kawakami suggested. Councilmember Chock. Councilmember Chock: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. I just wanted to reiterate that I think the recommendation from the Salary Commission of Councilmembers is okay. I just do not think this position should be voting for the item for the Councilmembers. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Brun and then Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Brun: To change this, we would have to put a resolution or something on the ballot? Councilmember Yukimura: A Charter amendment. Council Chair Rapozo: Yes. Councilmember Brun: Yes, I think that is where I am struggling, to approve a raise for Council. I think we should go ahead, put that, and get that in. Maybe the Salary Commission can go ahead and if they approve the raises, they do it, not us on the Councilmembers' salaries. Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else? The one last thing that we all need to understand is that these are the caps of the salaries. In other words, these positions cannot get paid more than what this Salary Resolution states. Any one of these positions, it does not matter which position. This can pass today and that will be cap. When the budget comes across the street, we control what that person gets paid. The Council approves the budget for that position. So if we do not believe or if we believe we cannot afford one hundred nineteen thousand dollars ($119,000) for a position, we fund it to the level that we can. I see Councilmember Yukimura nodding her head again and she keeps disagreeing with me. We control the budget. We control the budget line items. We could cut a position out if we wanted to. With the necessary amount of votes, this Council could eliminate positions if we choose to. We control the pay, so regardless of what—this is a cap. This is not the set salary, so if this body feels that a specific position in the County is getting paid too much based on this Salary Resolution, we fund it less. That is what we do. We have never done that, but that is always an alternative. Councilmember Kawakami. Councilmember Kawakami: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. I think part of the value of seeing how other municipalities and states operate is the ability to learn from their mistakes. I can tell you that there are legislatures that pay their Senators and Representatives nothing at all or very low pay. Do you know who that attracts? I will tell you who it attracts, only the people that can afford to take this position as a hobby, the Donald Trumps of the world. Although you may want to shortchange the Council because here we are sitting, let me tell you that I think part of the discussion I heard is that it is absolutely true. There are people that will not run because they will not be able to afford to. We are here speaking about that this COUNCIL MEETING 47 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 should be a full-time job, but still we want to shortchange the position? All that does is motivate people to have to take another job. Let me remind people, we can decide to take nothing or very little, but I will tell you just from my experience and working with different legislators who that attracts, and that is only the people who are well-off to do that are retired and this is their hobby. So it is a double-edged sword. Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, I would like to have the County Attorney, please. Council Chair Rapozo: Mr. Trask, your presence has been requested. I will suspend the rules. There being no objections, the rules were suspended. MAUNA KEA TRASK, County Attorney: Aloha, for the record Mauna Kea Trask, County Attorney. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: Mauna Kea, can we eliminate a position that is in the Charter? Mr. Trask: I am sorry, can you repeat your question? Councilmember Yukimura: Can the Council, by the budget process, eliminate a position that is in the Charter, such as a Department Head position? Mr. Trask: You do not have to fund it. Councilmember Yukimura: We do not have to fund it? Mr. Trask: You set the budget. The Council has plenary authority over the budget, and so I do not think Council can eliminate a Charter provided position such as County Engineer or something like that. But you set the budget, and that is the whole separation of powers, the back and forth. Councilmember Yukimura: If we set the budget to zero dollars ($0), can they not make a claim and eventually get paid if their salary was set by the Salary Commission and the Mayor or the appointing body? Mr. Trask: I cannot confirm that at this point. It would be a conflict of law because you would have to do an in-depth analysis because the Council sets the budget. (Councilmember Chock was noted as not present.) COUNCIL MEETING 48 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Mr. Trask: That is one of the legislative prerogatives. Councilmember Yukimura: I know, but the claim process is not a budget process. Mr. Trask: You say the claim process as in Section 23.06? I do not think so because Section 23.06 is set up for injuries to person or property due to negligence of a County officer or employee. That would not be a Section 23.06 claim. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Then, if the County Engineer's salary is set at zero dollars ($0) and the County Engineer is doing his work, you do not think he can put a claim against the County and get paid? Council Chair Rapozo: Before you answer that Mauna Kea, let me just clarify that I was not talking about Charter positions. When I made the comment that this Council can defund positions, I was not talking about the Charter positions. I do not think we have that ability to go against the Charter. I am talking about this body has the power to eliminate positions. Any position we feel in the County, except Charter positions, we can just eliminate. (Councilmember Chock was noted as present.) Council Chair Rapozo: That is what I meant. Mr. Trask: Yes. Council Chair Rapozo: I guess the authority to do that is available, then one to lower the pay on one of them would be well within our authority. Mr. Trask: Let me just state this for the record. To my distinguished client, the Council body as well for the edification of the public, it is the Office of the County Attorney's position that we are best utilized by not being used as fodder on the Council floor. I think it would be best if you have a question, we are set to serve the entire County including the Council, the Administration, the various Councilmembers, et cetera. I think this process would be best understood if we were sent written questions so that we can understand what the question is and what the points are, and go through the probable complex legal analysis to give you the right decision. I would hate to say something on the record today, it getting taken out of context tomorrow, and used inappropriately. So I think that is the best I can say. Councilmember Yukimura: I am sorry, there are moments in our meeting where we are about to make a decision and we need to verify certain points of law. Mr. Trask: Yes. Councilmember Yukimura: It is not always possible to put things in writing or to ask for a written opinion. COUNCIL MEETING 49 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Mr. Trask: Well, then all I can say is... Councilmember Yukimura: The situation today is such a situation. Mr. Trask: Then all I can say is under the rules of Hawai`i Professional Conduct, I believe Rule 1.6, as an officer of the court, I have a duty to diligence and to make sure that I investigate and review the law before I render advice. Given that I am an officer of the court, I understand it may be inconvenient, but I am held to those obligation as well. So I would implore you, if you have a question, that you allow me time to do that, otherwise, I cannot give you advice now. Councilmember Yukimura: So you are saying that you cannot answer the question today and given that we are discussing many Charter positions, my question is if the Salary Commission sets the cap and the Mayor sets the salary in the budget ordinance or the budget bill, can the Council lower that salary on a position by position basis and refuse to pay such that the County does not have to pay it? Mr. Trask: I have an obligation, again, of diligence. Councilmember Yukimura: You are saying that you cannot answer that question today? Mr. Trask: Correct. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Well, I guess Council Chair Rapozo can because that is what he is claiming. Mr. Trask: I can answer your... Council Chair Rapozo: I can because this question was asked last year. Mr. Trask: Correct. Council Chair Rapozo: I got my answer last year. That is why I repeated it. Councilmember Yukimura: In writing? Council Chair Rapozo: I am over this. You were here last year. We had this discussion last year. You may have forgotten. I have not. Mr. Trask: I believe we... Council Chair Rapozo: We were told by the Office of the County Attorney last year that the final pay line on the budget is our discretion, not this Salary Resolution. Mr. Trask: We rendered written legal advice on this. COUNCIL MEETING 50 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Council Chair Rapozo: I am not going play this game of "well, Council Chair Rapozo can," because I was here and I pay attention. I am sorry, but this is a game and I am over it. She is not going to get the votes, she is upset, she is going to want to prolong this, and I am over it. We have the votes. The question is very simple and go check the record, pull the files, or whatever. We did this last year. We asked for that opinion last year and I got it, everyone got it, and maybe you do not recall. Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you. Apparently the County Attorney does not recall, and I am sorry. I am not trying to prolong... Council Chair Rapozo: I cannot remember if it was...I have the floor, Councilmember Yukimura. I am not sure it was Mauna Kea or from his Deputy, but I remember the question being answered. Mr. Trask: I recall stating that the Council has plenary authority of the budget. Council Chair Rapozo: Right. Mr. Trask: There is a whole process. It is a back and forth and back and forth. Council Chair Rapozo: We are going to end it because it is like déjà vu and let us move forward. Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you. I am just asking the question because I did not know the answer and I want us to have basic facts in making our decision. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows: Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any further discussion? There is a motion on the floor to reject Council Chair and Councilmembers, five (5) votes required to remove that item. Roll call. The motion to reject the salaries of the Council Chair and Councilmembers was then put, and failed by the following vote: FOR MOTION: Brun, Chock, Yukimura TOTAL— 3, AGAINST MOTION: Kagawa, Kawakami, Rapozo TOTAL — 3, EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Kaneshiro TOTAL— 1, RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0. COUNCIL MEETING 51 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 JADE K. FOUNTAIN-TANIGAWA, County Clerk: 3:3. Council Chair Rapozo: We are back to the main motion, which is to receive. Last and final discussions. Did that fail? Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Motion fails. Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any further discussion before we take the final vote on this? Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: Again, I want to thank members of the Salary Commission. I think they did a marvelous job. They have a great makeup on that Salary Commission. I kind of apologize that we have a process that, I guess, could have been written better. I believe if the legislative side disagrees, it should be with a majority vote that trumps a decision of the administrative side. In this case, it just did not work and it is not the fault of the Salary Commission. I think it is back whenever the Salary Commission was created, we tried to give the power to the Salary Commission, but I think it actually fails in working because I think the legislative side should always trump the administrative side if it wants to disagree with what they have. Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other comments? This is your last chance. Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: I actually think that the caps of the County Clerk and the Deputy County Clerk should be approved. I wanted to get more information on the other positions in terms of comparability, ability to recruit, and inversion. I am sorry that I am not being allowed to do that because we are not going to have a deferral. I do not believe this is a legal thing to do with the posting and I am going to ask for that opinion from OIP, and it is based on that that I am voting against receipt. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Anyone else? I am obviously going to support the receipt, which means the approval of this Salary Resolution as it is submitted. There was some talk earlier about manipulation and so forth. The fact of the matter is that last year the Salary Commission did their job. They did their job. They went through all of the numbers. They did all the comparables with other jurisdictions. They came out with what they believed was fair. That came to the body and the body rejected it, not because they did not trust or agree with what was said. They rejected it because they felt we not afford it. It was not the right time. I will tell you that Mr. Crowell was one of the gentlemen that actually shared their very strong frustration to myself, basically this was not the first time that they submitted a recommendation to the Council that had been rejected. I have to believe that they felt pretty frustrated that, "Hey, we do all of the work. We do not get paid. We come. We spent hours, hours, and hours. We used staff time. We come up with the analysis, we do the numbers, we send it to the Council, and they shut it down." So I can see the frustration. It was purely because the Council, the ones that rejected it, could not support it simply not because they did not believe in the work that was done. It was simple because we felt it was bad timing, that the numbers, for various COUNCIL MEETING 52 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 reasons, we felt we could not afford it. Then something happened, which I believe when Councilmember Yukimura talked about the spirit of the Sunshine Law and the spirit of the law, using that same term, the spirit of the Charter was really the Salary Commission comes to the Council, the Council has the discussion and they either vote to support it or reject it. That was what had occurred and that is what should have been done. But no, no, no. I am not blaming the Council, but the Administration got in touch with some Councilmembers and said, "Hey, is there a way we can make this work?" I know this because the Administration contacted me, and I said, "I am not changing my position. I am not. We cannot afford it." But they were able to talk to a few Councilmembers who agreed that hey, do you know what? Let us do it in tiers to support some and not all. That only required three (3) votes. That could be done and that is what happened. Yes, the process, though legal, is not the spirit of the law. That was not the spirit of the Charter. You cannot keep coming back every time it gets bounced. That needs to be cleared up in the Charter. I sent that request over when this all was happening. I sent it over. Is this legal? How many bites at the apple do you get? Well, I was assure by our legal team that they get as many as they want and they can cut tiers of do whatever they can until they get the three (3) votes. That is what happened. Mr. Crowell, it is not just you. It is not just us. The whole process, it was a loophole that was used. At the end of the day, some people got raises and some did not, and that is why it is here today, not because I do not think that they deserved it back then because I think they did. It is just that the politics got involved and messed it all up. You ended up with our County Clerk, our Deputy County Clerk, and our County Auditor with no raise at all. Ironically, they are the legislative branch, executive branch got theirs. Some did not, but twenty-one (21) did and nine (9) did not, three (3) of which were our positions. That is why we are here today. I hope we can get the support to pass this Salary Resolution forward. Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: It is ironic that you, Council Chair Rapozo, have used that loophole and it is coming back again. You asked them to bring it back again. I do not see anything wrong with doing that and actually, I think the reason why the Salary Commission was so strongly concerned about the totality of the Salary Resolution being rejected was because of the huge inversion problem and the huge problem with recruitment and the unjustness of it. The three (3) votes saw there was a rational distinction between the first tier and the second tier. The fact that the second tier did not have the inversion problems, did not have the recruitment problems, and did not have the comparability problems. So it was a logical distinction to make. I want to say that the first tier that I am talking about is the tier that we approved the first time and that included the County Engineer, the Chief of Police, the Fire Chief, and all of that. So there was not any real manipulation, there was just disagreement about what salaries should and could be raised given the budget. That was all there was. It was legitimate disagreements and differences of opinions. I do not think we have to demonize anybody. We are still grappling with trying to do what is the best and fairest thing for this County. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there any further discussion? The motion on the floor is to receive. Roll call. COUNCIL MEETING 53 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 The motion receive C 2017-55 for the record was then put, and carried by the following vote: FOR RECEIPT: Brun, Kagawa, Kawakami, Rapozo TOTAL— 4, AGAINST RECEIPT: Chock, Yukimura TOTAL — 2, EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Kaneshiro TOTAL— 1, RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0. Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Motion passes. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. At this time, we have some special visitors here from St. Theresa School. I understand they made a long journey. I apologize. We wanted to get you up very early. Thank you, Mr. Crowell. Councilmember Brun, I will turn it over to you. They are your guests, so please if you want to do a quick welcome. Councilmember Brun: Well, thank you for coming out. Ms. Johnston, thank you for bringing the students here so my daughter can see what I really do during the day. Does anybody have any questions for us? Does anybody want to come up to just ask a question or say something? Council Chair Rapozo: Which one is your daughter, Councilmember Brun? Councilmember Brun: Hannah, raise your hand. Council Chair Rapozo: Hannah, why do you not stand up? How about a big hand for Hannah for making this happen? Councilmember Brun: Ms. Johnston put it together. Council Chair Rapozo: Where is Ms. Johnston? Councilmember Brun: She is super-duper too, Waimea, that is the ice cream lady right there. Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anyone from St. Theresa School that wants to come up and say a few words? Do we have a Student Body President here? Okay, you have to come up. Student Body President, please. You are going to speak for the whole class. You get elected to be Student Body President, right? People vote for you? BARAK ARIGUETERO: Yes. Council Chair Rapozo: Good. You get to speak for all of them. Do not look back. You are up here. There are millions of people watching right now. You are on television. Ms. Parker will help you get setup there. If you can start by saying your name and title at the school. COUNCIL MEETING 54 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Mr. Ariguetero: My name is Barak, I am in 8th grade, and I am the Student Body President. Council Chair Rapozo: Perfect. What does the Student Body President at the school do? Do you represent all of your students? Mr. Ariguetero: Yes, we hold meetings in Ms. Johnston's class. We just listen to what is happening on campus and make sure everything is running well. Council Chair Rapozo: You listen if there are any issues or problems and you folks try to help to fix it? Mr. Ariguetero: Yes. Council Chair Rapozo: Is it kind of like what we do? Mr. Ariguetero: Yes. We solve the problems. Council Chair Rapozo: Do you folks solve them though? Mr. Ariguetero: Yes. Council Chair Rapozo: Alright. Mr. Ariguetero: Peacefully. Councilmember Brun: Peacefully, that is a good word. Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any questions for any one of us or does any Councilmember have a question for our President sitting right there? Councilmember Brun: Do you have cameras there? Mr. Ariguetero: No. Councilmember Brun: Do you folks have arguments like this? Mr. Ariguetero: We have arguments. Council Chair Rapozo: What is one (1) issue that the students brought up to the Student Body Council that needed to be addressed? Mr. Ariguetero: Bullying, mostly. Council Chair Rapozo: Oh, really? Mr. Ariguetero: Yes. COUNCIL MEETING 55 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Council Chair Rapozo: What was your response? What was the Student Body Council's response? Do you have a policy or something? Mr. Ariguetero: Yes, we have bullying policies. Most of the bullying happens during recess times on the playground, so we place playground monitors on each side. Council Chair Rapozo: Were they students? Mr. Ariguetero: No, it was teachers. Council Chair Rapozo: Oh, really? Mr. Ariguetero: Yes. If you have a problem, you would go to the teacher and the teacher would pull that person and you aside and have you folks talk it out. Council Chair Rapozo: Wow. Bullying at a Catholic school? Mr. Ariguetero: Yes. Council Chair Rapozo: Wow, I went to Catholic school. If we were caught bullying at the Catholic school, we had nuns back then from the Philippines, and they would beat us with sticks. I am telling the truth. They make you run out to the yard, grab a branch off the tree, and they used that branch to whip you. So that is why we never had bullying in our school. We just never had bullying because no one wanted to get whipped by the nuns. Councilmember Kawakami. Councilmember Kawakami: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo and thank you, Mr. President. I have a question about bullying. When we are going to school, we could get away from the bullies. As soon as school ended, there was a way for us to escape, but now with the internet and social media, we are faced with cyberbullying and sometimes it is hard to get away from cyberbullying when somebody is posting negative things. Is cyberbullying a problem at your school? Mr. Ariguetero: No. Councilmember Kawakami: It is not? Mr. Ariguetero: No. Councilmember Kawakami: That is great to hear. Thank you. Let me ask you a question, why is not it a problem? What kind of policies do you have, if any, that combat this because I know in other schools, it is it is a huge issue. Mr. Ariguetero: I think the main reason we do not have cyberbullying is because we are a really small school. Sure, we do not like each other, but we try to like each other so that we do not have those problems outside of school. COUNCIL MEETING 56 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Councilmember Kawakami: Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: And you are taught the values of Jesus Christ, too, yes? Mr. Ariguetero: Yes, we have religion classes, yes. Councilmember Yukimura: Right. Council Chair Rapozo: Oh, they allow that? Mr. Ariguetero: Yes, so we pray. Council Chair Rapozo: I am joking. Councilmember Yukimura: I am just curious, what kind of concerns do the students have about the larger society? Mr. Ariguetero: I do not know. Actually, we have not really talked about that one. Councilmember Yukimura: Global warming, or recycling, or things like that? Mr. Ariguetero: We do not really think about that much. Councilmember Yukimura: What grade are you? Mr. Ariguetero: 8th grade. Councilmember Yukimura: You are an 8th grader. So you are the top class then? You are graduating this year? Mr. Ariguetero: Yes. My fellow 8th grader is back there too. This is the 8th grade class, me and that person in the blue shirt. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. So the students who are present, range from what ages? Mr. Ariguetero: Grades 3rd through 8th. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Wonderful. Council Chair Rapozo: Ms. Parker will help you turn it on and then just gave us your name. HARLEY RAGASA: Hi, my name is Harley Ragasa. COUNCIL MEETING 57 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Council Chair Rapozo: Are you in the Student Body Council as well? Mr. Ragasa: Yes, I am. Council Chair Rapozo: Are you the Vice President? Mr. Ragasa: No. I am a Chairman. Council Chair Rapozo: Oh, Chairman. Okay. Councilmember Chock. Councilmember Chock: Thank you Council Chair Rapozo. I am guessing there are 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th grade representatives. I was wondering if we might be able to identify them. Would you be able to do that? Mr. Ariguetero: Oh, yes, sure. Councilmember Yukimura: By class. Councilmember Chock: By class, yes. Council Chair Rapozo: 3rd grade representative, please stand. Who is that? Councilmember Yukimura: Alright. Mr. Ariguetero: This right here is Ikaika Miyashiro. He is a Class Representative and the one in the blue shirt, his name is Poutoa Garza. He is also a Class Representative for the 3rd grade. They are both in the 3rd grade. Council Chair Rapozo: Alright. Thank you for being here today. 4th grade? Mr. Ariguetero: The Samoan looking one... Council Chair Rapozo: The boy and the girl. Mr. Ariguetero: Yes. His name is Keapuni Miyake. He is a Class Representative, and this is Kaimali`e San Agustin. She is also a Class Representative for the 4th grade. Council Chair Rapozo: Oh, thank you. Councilmember Brun. Councilmember Brun: Kaimali`e's grandfather is who is making our lunch for today, Unko's Kitchen, LLC. Council Chair Rapozo: This must be 5th grade. COUNCIL MEETING 58 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Mr. Ariguetero: Yes. This is Madeline Winsely. She is also a Class Representative for the 5th grade class. Council Chair Rapozo: And then you have one (1) more back there. Mr. Ariguetero: Then there is Kanoe Dusenberry, who is also a 5th grade Class Representative. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. 6th grade. Mr. Ariguetero: 6th grade. There are two (2) girls and one (1) boy. The boy's name is Kylen Parongao, Class Representative for the 6th grade. We have Councilmember Brun's daughter, Hannah Brun. She is also a Class Representative. Haley Ragasa is actually our Manager of the Student Council. Council Chair Rapozo: Oh, perfect. Thank you for being here. That was 6th grade now. 7th grade. Mr. Ariguetero: From the 7th grade, we have Braenna Moises, who is our 7th and 8th grade Class Representative. This is Matthew Taeza. He is our school Treasurer. Council Chair Rapozo: Oh, the money man. Mr. Ariguetero: Yes. Councilmember Kawakami: Briana Moises? Mr. Ariguetero: Yes. Councilmember Kawakami: Is your dad Bimo? Councilmember Brun: Yes. Councilmember Kawakami: Oh, I know him well. So your grandmother is right across the street watching you right now. She is a very proud grandmother, by the way. Aunty Marlene is probably watching you live right now. Alright. Council Chair Rapozo: That was 7th grade, right? Now we are on 8th grade. Mr. Ariguetero: Yes. Council Chair Rapozo: Oh, and you are right here. Mr. Ariguetero: Our big 8th grade class is right here. COUNCIL MEETING 59 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Council Chair Rapozo: Alright. What are the goals for this next year? What are you going to do to improve the school in the next year? Maybe start recycling. I heard you say you were starting to think about recycling? Mr. Ariguetero: Yes, we actually have recycle bins that we take down to the recycle centers. Council Chair Rapozo: Perfect. Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: I would like to ask the 8th graders, if you had a wish-list of something that you wanted in the proximity of your school that you would like to see the County improve, either the road—is it Elepaio Road that runs to St. Theresa School? Mr. Ariguetero: Yes. Mr. Ragasa: Yes. Councilmember Kagawa: What would you like to see improved, that or maybe the park, or the basketball courts need to be improved at Kekaha Park? I guess, if you each had a wish that the County could improve, what would it be? Mr. Ariguetero: The road. The road is kind of broken in the back, Elepaio Road. Councilmember Kagawa: What about you? Mr. Ragasa: The park. The grass needs more watering. Councilmember Kagawa: Okay. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions for these fine gentlemen? If not, thank you very much. Mr. Ariguetero: Thank you. Mr. Ragasa: Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Was there anyone else from the school that wanted to say anything or ask us questions? Are they going to be hanging around? Councilmember Brun: Yes, they are having lunch with us. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. We will go onto the next item, please. Councilmember Brun: Are we taking a break? Council Chair Rapozo: Did you want to take a break now? COUNCIL MEETING 60 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Councilmember Brun: Well, we can. I am going to take them down because I brought snacks and things for breakfast. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Well, let us do that. Let us take our caption break BC, ten (10) minutes and we will be back There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 11:32 a.m. The meeting reconvened at 11:44 a.m., and proceeded as follows: (Councilmembers Brun and Yukimura were noted as not present.) C 2017-56 Communication (02/09/2017) from the Prosecuting Attorney, requesting Council approval of non-budgeted equipment purchases in the amount of $40,787.85, for sixteen (16) replacement tablet devices and Microsoft (MS) Office Software, which includes a five (5) year life expectancy/warranty, pursuant to Section 17 of the Fiscal Year 2016-2017 Operating Budget. Council Chair Rapozo: Can I get a motion, please? (Councilmember Brun was noted as present.) Councilmember Kawakami moved to approve C 2017-56, seconded by Councilmember Chock. Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion? Is there any public testimony? Ms. Parker. There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony. Ms. Parker: Alice Parker, for the record. I believe that this amount should be included in the budget because a computer's life expectancy is about five (5) years and it should be a regular line item in the budget. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Mr. Hart. BRUCE HART: For the record, Bruce Hart. I was just wondering, I am just curious, I go out and I purchase things like tablets, and even if they cost one thousand dollars ($1,000) each, I am just wondering where they came up with almost forty-one thousand dollars ($41,000). Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else in the audience wishing to testify? While the rules are suspended, is the Office of the Prosecuting Attorney here? I am sorry. Mr. Hart asked the same question I was going to ask. Forty thousand dollars ($40,000) divided by sixteen (16) is a lot, so help us out there, sir. ART WILLIAMS, Administrative Officer: Art Williams, Administrative Officer for the Office of the Prosecuting Attorney. Thank you Council Chair Rapozo and Councilmembers. I would ask the same question, too, if it just pops up on the COUNCIL MEETING 61 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 budget. Just the line item of that amount of money, what the heck? A little background, these are replacement devices for the County iPads that we use. They are no different than other organizations in the County of a tablet device. Our iPads, however, are now out-of-date, not updatable, no upgradable, and so we cannot continue to use them. They are also lacking in allowing us to access our case management system remotely and get the full functionality that we use. We looked with Information Technology (IT) to find something that would work more efficiently and better to do that. These are tablet replacements. They are similar to a Microsoft Surface device. You have all seen these on sports programs, something like that; however, the IT Department has specked out one that is compatible with our network system that can be securely connected and works. It also allows our attorneys to work remotely. (Councilmember Yukimura was noted as present.) Mr. Williams: Although they are appointed positions, we do have the wherewithal to get a lot of use out of not only the tablets, but all of our attorneys. They work a lot of hours outside of the office and in the courtroom, being able to access not only our systems, but also their investigative devices. So the breakdown is we looked at these with IT and came up with a device that was going to have an extended warranty. It is covered for five (5) years. That is almost unheard of, which is why we went ahead with the Dell devices. It works out to about less than a cup of coffee cost over the five (5) year period that we have for our sixteen (16) attorneys and it works out over that time period, we think, quite effectively that way. It allows accessibility and allows the people to be double-dutied. The other thing we have is we inherited some of the attorneys—most of the attorneys were outfitted with laptops prior on their desktop as a desktop device. Those are also becoming outdated, but rather than replace those with a expensive laptops in the office, that would be a less expensive desktop as that upgrade occurs in the next two (2) to three (3) years or whatever, on those devices as they wear out. So it is getting more productivity for the people that are using the devices. Council Chair Rapozo: So forty thousand seven hundred eighty-seven dollars ($40,787) divided by sixteen (16) is two thousand five hundred forty-nine dollars ($2,549). Mr. Williams: Two thousand five hundred forty-nine dollars and twenty-four cents ($2,549.24). Council Chair Rapozo: Yes. Again, was that the cost of the tablet? Mr. Williams: That is the cost one (1) tablet, but that is also the tablet with the software that goes on it. Council Chair Rapozo: What kind of tablet is that? Mr. Williams: It is a Dell 7525, I believe, is the model. Again, it is comparable to the format of a Microsoft Surface. A kind of foldup tablet. COUNCIL MEETING 62 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. How many iPad do you have now? Mr. Williams: Sixteen (16). Council Chair Rapozo: Oh, you have the sixteen (16)? Mr. Williams: Yes. Council Chair Rapozo: What happens to the sixteen (16) iPads? Mr. Williams: Well, we are looking with the Purchasing Division and the different options that we can do. We will take them off of access from the remote access, but they will have the Wi-Fi. They can be either resold or they will be disposed of through the... Council Chair Rapozo: Maybe give it to the County Council because ours is almost ten (10) years old. Mr. Williams: They are the same age as the one that you have. One (1) of the things that happens is, and you may have run into this, if you are go to do an upgrade, it says you are there and you cannot get the current upgrades as far as the operating system. So that is one (1) of the issues. Unless you go to a different iPad or a newer iPad, it will have the upgrade capability. Council Chair Rapozo: I do not know if we are getting that problem as far as upgrading. We are all upgrading ours without a problem, right? According to the request for approval to purchase, you are saying four (4) year old iPad replacement. So is that how old your iPads are, just four (4) years old? Mr. Williams: Yes. I have a four (4) year old iPad mini. We have iPad minis that we have used. I actually purchased this case myself. It is the iPad mini, but this device, I can no longer do any updates through the operating system, the iOS system, if you will, not to get too technical. But I cannot do that. It is not updatable and not upgradable. IT has told us, "You need to buy new devices to stay compatible as we go with the upgrades." But more than that, again, it is the accessibility that we have for our systems. We have partial accessibility to our systems right now on the iPad, but we do not have the full accessibility to make use of the systems that we are investing in to stay connected. Council Chair Rapozo: And then to answer Alice's question or comment, that it should be in budget as a line item and not a last minute end of year purchase. Mr. Williams: Correct. We are using the unexpended salary savings that we experienced because of resignations or people moving. So unexpended salary accounts to take advantage of that. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. COUNCIL MEETING 63 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Mr. Williams: It is budgeted money. It is in our budget. We are not asking for more money. Council Chair Rapozo: Right. Mr. Williams: It is money we have in our budget. Council Chair Rapozo: We expect to see a lot of these as we get closer to the end of the fiscal year from all departments. Mr. Williams: We are trying to be proactive. Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions for the Office of the Prosecuting Attorney? If not, thank you very much. Mr. Williams: Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Wally, just nod if you can answer this. What happens to the units? Are they able to be transferred to other departments? Like I said, ours are old. We manage with the old ones. I know the Prosecutors have different software and networks or whatever, but is that a question you can answer? Okay. It is four (4) years old. I do not think it is not usable. Ours is eight (8) years and it is working fine. Wally, if you can come up? I may as well ask if you are here. If we can get that for Council staff. We share iPads over here. Our staff does not have iPads. I did not even realize that they had sixteen (16). Mr. Rezentes: Wally Rezentes, again, Managing Director. The Purchasing Division has a process that they go through. With the advice of IT, they go to IT and confirm that IT can support the older equipment. There is usually a process. I do not know the specifics, but there is a process that the Purchasing Division has that allows departments to transfer the asset from one department to the other. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Well, I just want to make sure that we have an ability to be able to use that. I heard the word "dispose" and do not want them thrown away because we can use them. Mr. Rezentes: Yes, I think that is always the last resort. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Thank you. With that, I will call the meeting back to order. There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows: Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any further discussion? Staff, I want to make sure that we send something over if those units are not accounted for. I think for people like Councilmember Brun and Councilmember Kawakami who may have left before we even got iPads, the history of iPads as we put in for the iPads, it was COUNCIL MEETING 64 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 the toughest time to get iPads approved because IT said we could not get them. IT said there was no support for them. IT said "No, no, no, no," and we finally got the Council Chair back then to say, "Yes," and we put it in the budget. After that, everybody got iPads. I guess my point, our iPads are probably eight (8) years old and we do not have that many of them. We had x amount and we never replaced them. If there is an opportunity to replace this office, I am okay with a four (4)year old iPad. We do not need to buy new ones. We have more than enough staff members that could definitely use it rather than sharing iPads. So let us somehow get something across there that—fine, I am going to support this today, but I want to make sure that those iPads that are being replaced are going to go where people in this County can use. This office is definitely one of them. Is there any further discussion? The motion to approve C 2017-56 was then put, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1 (Councilmember Kaneshiro was excused). Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item, please. C 2017-57 Communication (02/10/2017) from the First Deputy County Attorney, on behalf of the Kaua`i County Council, requesting agenda time for Council discussion and to consult with the County's legal counsel as it relates to the process of hiring a County Auditor, and related matters. Councilmember Kagawa: We are going to deal with this later, right? Council Chair Rapozo: Yes. We have an Executive Session for this. I will just say for the public, we will be taking this up later, but we are going to be discussing hiring an executive search firm to be looking into hiring the attorney. There is one (1) resume that came in sent out to each you. Councilmember Yukimura: Auditor. Council Chair Rapozo: What? What did I say? Councilmember Yukimura: Attorney. Council Chair Rapozo: I am looking at you, Councilmember Yukimura, and I am thinking attorney. County Auditor. I am sorry. County Auditor. So there is one (1) resume that came in and I would ask each of you, if you have not already, to really take a look at it. If we cannot find some agreement on this resume that came in, and that is what we will be discussing today. The fact it is going into Executive Session is simply because it is a personnel matter. We are going to be discussing that person's resume. We will take this up after the Executive Session. Next. COUNCIL MEETING 65 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 LEGAL DOCUMENT: C 2017-58 Communication (02/09/2017) from the Kaua`i Life's Choices Kaua`i Coordinator, requesting Council approval of a Dedication Deed (Lot 1-A-5-A) from Grove Farm Company, Incorporated, to the County of Kaua`i for healing and treatment services, located at Hanamd'ulu, Lihu`e, Kaua`i, Hawai`i, Tax Map Key (TMK) No. (4) 3-8-002:001 (por.). • Dedication Deed Councilmember Kagawa moved to approve C 2017-58, seconded by Councilmember Brun. Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion? Is there any public testimony? Thank you. We will suspend the rules without any objections. There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony. Ms. Parker: Alice Parker, for the record. I think that this easement is desperately needed because we need a location for Kaua`i's Life's Choices. While we are talking about easements and deeds, could the Mayor or whoever and Grove Farm, Incorporated get together and give an easement on Pahe`e Street for a bus stop? Thank you. There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows: The motion to approve C 2017-58 was then put, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1 (Councilmember Kaneshiro was excused). Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item, please. CLAIM: C 2017-59 Communication (02/08/2017) from the County Clerk, transmitting a claim filed against the County of Kauai by Moises Labuguen, for damage to his vehicle, pursuant to Section 23.06, Charter of the County of Kaua`i. Council Chair Rapozo: Can I get a motion, please? Councilmember Kagawa moved to refer C 2017-59 to the Office of the County Attorney for disposition and/or report back to the Council, seconded by Councilmember Brun. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there any discussion? Is there any public testimony? There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony. COUNCIL MEETING 66 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 JEROME FREITAS: I want to testify? Council Chair Rapozo: On the Claim? Mr. Freitas: Yes. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Mr. Freitas: Not on the Claim, but about other claims. Council Chair Rapozo: No, it needs to be on this Claim. Mr. Freitas: Only this Claim? Council Chair Rapozo: Yes. The posted agenda is for that specific Claim. Mr. Freitas: What about the other denied claims? Council Chair Rapozo: I will say that when we have item that comes up on the claims, which we have every quarter, then you can testify on the claims in general. But for right now, this is only for the specific claim. Thank you. There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows: Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any further discussion? The motion to refer C 2017-59 to the Office of the County Attorney for disposition and/or report back to the Council was then put, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1 (Councilmember Kaneshiro was excused). Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item, please. COMMITTEE REPORTS: PUBLIC WORKS / PARKS & RECREATION COMMITTEE: A report (No. CR-PWPR 2017-11) submitted by the Public Works / Parks & Recreation Committee, recommending that the following be Received for the Record: "PWPR 2017-09 Communication (01/24/2017) from Committee Chair Kagawa, requesting the presence of the Director of Parks & Recreation and the Deputy Director of Parks & Recreation, to provide a briefing on the Wailua Golf Course, including but not limited to, discussion of plans for concessions and reducing the County's subsidy to the Golf Fund." Council Chair Rapozo: Can I get a motion to approve? COUNCIL MEETING 67 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Councilmember Brun moved for approval of the report, seconded by Councilmember Chock. Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion? Is there any public testimony? There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony. There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows: The motion for approval of the report was then put, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1 (Councilmember Kaneshiro was excused). Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item, please. PLANNING COMMITTEE: A report (No. CR-PL 2017-03) submitted by the Planning Committee, recommending that the following be Received for the Record: "PL 2017-01 Communication (01/03/2017) from Council Chair Rapozo, requesting the presence of the Planning Director, to provide an update regarding the County's Important Agricultural Lands (IAL) process, including future procedures necessary, if any, and timeframe for completion," Councilmember Chock moved for approval of the report, seconded by Councilmember Brun. Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion? Is there any public testimony? There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony. There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows: The motion for approval of the report was then put, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1 (Councilmember Kaneshiro was excused). Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item, please. COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE: A report (No. CR-COW 2017-02) submitted by the Committee of the Whole, recommending that the following be Received for the Record: "COW 2017-01 Communication (02/01/2017) from Council Chair Rapozo, requesting the presence of the Director of Finance and representatives from COUNCIL MEETING 68 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Spire Hawai`i, LLP and the Kaua`i Humane Society, to discuss the Audit of the Kaua`i Humane Society," A report (No. CR-COW 2017-03) submitted by the Committee of the Whole, recommending that the following be Approved as Amended on second and final reading: "Resolution No. 2017-16— RESOLUTION ADOPTING RULES OF THE COUNCIL OF THE COUNTY OF KAUAI FOR INVESTIGATIONS CONDUCTED PURSUANT TO SECTION 3.17 OF THE CHARTER OF THE COUNTY OF KAUAI AND REPEALING RESOLUTION NO. 2005-25, DRAFT 1," Councilmember Brun moved for approval of the reports, seconded by Councilmember Chock. Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion? Is there any public testimony? There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony. Council Chair Rapozo: While Mr. Scott is coming up, I watched the news last night and I saw the news this morning. I was away, so I just got a chance to catchup. I guess someone told the media we were going to be deciding on this today, and the fact of the matter is that today is a Committee Report. It is a Committee Report that basically summarizes the action that was taken last week, which was we received the audit report at last week's Committee Meeting. So there is no action to be taken by this body. We received a ton of testimony, I guess from people who saw the news that for some reason, thought we were going to be discussing and taking action on this, but that actually is not the case. After our Committee Meetings, our staff puts it all in a report and that comes to us to be officially approved today. So that is what is on the agenda today. It is just the Committee Report from last Committee Meeting, but we will definitely accept all public testimony. Thank you. BASIL SCOTT: Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Hang on really quick. Councilmember Kagawa: Before he starts, so that he has clarification as well, when is next big decision that everybody seems interested in for this Council? Is it going to be during the budget? Council Chair Rapozo: Correct. Councilmember Kagawa: When we approve the allocation from the Director of Finance as far as how much the Kaua`i Humane Society is going to get for the County portion, right? That would be the time and that happens in March, latter March. COUNCIL MEETING 69 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: The budget will be submitted to us in March and then decision-making is in May. Council Chair Rapozo: So we actually have until May, but what is going to happen, what we have asked the Department of Finance to do, is work with the Kaua`i Humane Society. We suggested having some external individuals participate to define what role the Kaua`i Humane Society will play in the County's budget, and at that point, adjust the budget accordingly. Councilmember Kagawa: Like you said, I just wanted some clarity. There is a lot of interest, a lot of emotions that come into play, and I do not want everybody to fire all of their bullets before the game is really being played. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. With that, sir? Mr. Scott: Thank you. Basil Scott, Kauai Community Cat Project. When it passes the Kaua`i Humane Society budget, I believe the Council should include requirements on the Administration to ensure that requirements for accurate recordkeeping are part of the budget. Since the budget is an ordinance, it is my belief and understanding that you have the power to do that although I do not know if it is your standard practice. Assuming you can do it, I think these requirements should ensure that number one, the Kaua`i Humane Society, and this would be part of the contract, that records are retained for cost justification and accurate cost understanding by the County. Number two, that Kaua`i Humane Society would be required to produce a report on animals killed before their required hold times with an explanation of why. Then in addition, my organization would request a requirement for consultation with outside groups when Kaua`i Humane Society cannot provide certain services. This could be we are going to have to kill those kittens or it could be something with hunting dogs, dog behavior, or whatever the issue might be. If they feel they cannot provide those services, that they would consult with outside animal groups, which are fairly well-known on the island. On the structure of the contract, I would ask the Council to consider something simple like a fee structure such as twenty-five dollars ($25) per day per dog or fifteen dollars ($15) per day per cat. This would be different. It would be less like a grant and more like a fee for services. I think that this would be a simplification of costing. You would not have to get into complications of cost allocations and there is no good records anyway to decide what those should be. You could base those costs on comparisons with other organizations in the County because there are other groups that provide animal boarding and so forth. So not only would this reduce the costing complexity, but it would also be an incentive for Kauai Humane Society to meet hold times because if they did not hold an animal, then they would not get paid for holding that animal. (Councilmember Yukimura was noted as not present.) Mr. Scott: I would also note that the County should not pay Kauai Humane Society for holding animals that, in fact, they never held. So it might be a workable thing. The County could establish a base amount with an COUNCIL MEETING 70 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 adjustment every quarter based on the pay schedule that is there. I am sure we will get a lot more input on this. I appreciate the time. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Anyone else? Ms. Parker. Ms. Parker: Alice Parker, for the record. As far as the Kaua`i Humane Society, I think that they need to have a manual of operations. I do not know if they have one. Also, they need to instruct the people who work with the animals as to the use of proper wording to describing an animal. For instance, if they have to put down animals prematurely, they need to write down why. Animal is too aggressive. Animal is severely injured. We cannot hold them for the time. But need to account for why they are doing it early. The other thing, and I left a message for Scott Pisano that we need to educate the public and advertise spay and neuter as positive effects on the animals. Too many people they "Oh, I do not want my animal to be neutered or spayed." Hey, we have to, especially with cats, but with dogs, too. We do not want unwanted litters. Good luck, Scott, you inherited lots of jumble and thank you, Council, for working with them. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there anyone else wishing to testify? Seeing none, I will call the meeting back to order. There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows: Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any further discussion? Let me just say that I am hoping that we get to a new contract shortly. I have expressed my concern that it should be more of a reimbursable type of contract where they submit an invoice every month for the work provided, and then we pay them every month versus a flat-out flat rate that there is no real basis. It is just an agreed upon amount. But if it is reimbursable, they submit the invoice and we pay them for what they provided. It is a lot easier to track on a monthly basis than trying to go back, and it would be a lot easier for them to maintain records as well, if the invoices are maintained on a monthly basis. That is in the Department of Finance's hands and we will monitor what they do. The motion for approval of the reports was then put, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1 (Pursuant to Rule No. 5(b) of the Rules of the Council of the County of Kaua`i, Councilmember Yukimura was noted as silent (not present), but shall be recorded as an affirmative vote for the motion; Councilmember Kaneshiro was excused). Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item, please. RESOLUTIONS: Resolution No. 2016-60 — RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE ACQUISITION OF A PUBLIC PEDESTRIAN BEACH ACCESS EASEMENT IN LAND REQUIRED FOR PUBLIC USE, TO WIT: A PUBLIC PEDESTRIAN BEACH ACCESS EASEMENT TO KUKUI`ULA BAY, KUKUI`ULA, COUNTY OF KAUAI, COUNCIL MEETING 71 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 HAWAII, AND DETERMINING AND DECLARING THE NECESSITY OF THE ACQUISITION THEREOF BY EMINENT DOMAIN Council Chair Rapozo: Is Planning Department here or the Public Access, Open Space, and Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission? Councilmember Kagawa: I think they requested a deferral, right? Council Chair Rapozo: I know they requested a deferral, but they are not here? Okay. Are they coming? Is this not their item? Councilmember Kagawa: I am okay with just deferring it. We have a busy agenda today. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. For the Administration that is watching or the Managing Director that is here, if this is a Planning Department item, they need to be here. If it is Department of Public Works item, they need to be here. We cannot have an item come up and they are not here. Somebody has to keep track of this. It is frustrating. Now, I am told there is two-segment lag. Wally is here. Wally, you know it is coming up, call them, and tell them that we want it here. I do not want to tell the public why they want a deferral. I want them to tell the public why. It is not a Council delay, it is an administrative delay. (Councilmember Yukimura was noted as present.) There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony. Council Chair Rapozo: Go ahead. Ms. Parker: Alice Parker, for the record. I echo your comments, Council Chair Rapozo. We desperately need access to the beach and to the ocean, and the public should always have access to the ocean. We definitely need an easement letting the public get through there at Kukui`ula Bay. Where is the Administration? Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else? TINA SAKAMOTO: Aloha, Council Chair Rapozo and Councilmembers. My name is Tina Sakamoto. During this morning's Planning Commission interview, the issue of planning, decision-making, and the lapse of implementation of decisions arose. I think this issue directly relates to this Resolution on the floor, Resolution 2016-60. It has been almost twelve (12) years since the 2005 recommendation of the Public Access, Open Space, and Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission to acquire public access to the beach and shoreline through the former Hoban property. The Commission has continued recommending this acquisition, yet implementation has been stalled. It is time to implement the Commission's recommendation and move forward. Also, during the Planning Commission's interview of Mr. Lord, it was stated that the coordinated COUNCIL MEETING 72 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 efforts of various peoples can move things forward. The coordinated efforts of various people can move things forward. I stand with the one thousand five hundred (1,500) petition signers in support of acquiring the public access to this beach and shoreline in the public interest. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Anyone else? Councilmember Kagawa: Council Chair Rapozo, I have a process question. Council Chair Rapozo: Go ahead. Councilmember Kagawa: Can we make sure that staff keeps this for us if it is going to be deferred? Council Chair Rapozo: Yes. Councilmember Kagawa: Let us make sure that we do not have to re-copy these and make sure we have it because Tessie has been so nice to provide us with all of these copies. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Go ahead, Tessie. TESSIE KINNAMAN: Good afternoon, for the record, Tessie Kinnaman. What I have passed out to you is a little over one thousand five hundred (1,500) signatures on this petition for purchase and eminent domain. Out of that one thousand five hundred (1,500) signatures, there is about one hundred twenty-four (124) visitors that signed the petition. I tried to count them out. Anyway, there was a total of a little over one thousand five hundred (1,500) signatures. I took pictures of public accesses that we do have along the south shore. Picture A is of this place called Baby Beach, which is on Ho`ona Road. It is close to Julie Souza's house and can you see in depiction Al and A2, that is the access there. You go down the stairs and there is a low wall that I described at the previous meeting. The rental unit is right on the side of it. Then, when you get to the beach, it is A3 and A4. You are looking to the left and to the right. Then, Picture B is directly across Julie's Souza house. That is one of the oldest accesses that area had. It is only about three (3) feet to four (4) feet wide. The one before that is ten (10) feet wide and this one is only three (3) feet to four (4) feet wide. Going down that alley, I call it an alley because it is very narrow, you go down the stairs and then you look to the left, that is right next to Baby Beach. To the right, you have a picture of Kuhio Shores. The last picture there, B5, is going back up the stairs on that narrow public access. Further down, Picture C is Lawa`i Beach Resort Restaurant. You can see it there. A lot of the visitors use that and so do a lot of residents use that area for surfing. There are three (3) surf spots out there. Then, you go down the street about two hundred (200) feet, we have Boyden's Pond. That is one of the oldest pond that we have used since I was little. Across the street there, the Kukui`ula development put up a parking lot for the users of this beach, and they also built the wall there. COUNCIL MEETING 73 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Council Chair Rapozo: Hang on really quick. Is there anyone else wishing to testify? No one else? Go ahead, you can have your second three (3) minutes. Ms. Kinnaman: Thank you. Then the pages after that, you can see how huge the pond is, which is not very huge at all. It is packed almost every weekend with families with little kids. A little further down, I call this—I am sorry. If you go to Picture El, I think I have mine backwards. I call this McCaslin Point. This is one of the most recent ones that the County has done. As you can see, it is not very improved. It is about ten (10) feet wide and the abutting neighbor throws their green waste into the public right-of-way. Council Chair Rapozo: I would suggest that you move on. Ms. Kinnaman: Then Picture E3 and E4 show you what it looks like from that access and then looking mauka towards Kukui`ula development. Then of course you have Picture F, which is Kukui`ula Bay and the boat harbor. A lot of visitors are starting to use that also and so is the local public. Picture G is what we are looking at that is blocked. That is easement that we would like to have opened. The community still desires, as well as Public Access, Open Space, and Natural Resources Preservation Fund Commission. It is an initiative. This beach access is an essential right for gathering. It facilitates the cultural practices, traditional and customary. This is not a really good surf spot, so people do not realize that a lot of us do use that spot for food gathering. We are still asking for the Resolution to be approved, although I do not know what the deferral is about, again. Hopefully, it does not take too long. Mahalo. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Can we have the Planning Department, please? KAAINA S. HULL, Deputy Planning Director: Ka`aina Hull, on behalf of the Planning Department. Council Chair Rapozo: If you could just explain to us what is going on, the status, and the reason for the request of deferral. Mr. Hull: The request for deferral was at the meeting back in December, I believe it was, we had discussions with the Council that we were procuring the services of an appraiser to do an appraisal above and beyond just the specified amount of the easement, but to also do the appraisal of what the legal damages would be should it go through condemnation proceedings. It is just taking a bit more time than we anticipated to procure those services. If we went out for the thirty (30) day notice, we did receive three (3) bids successfully, so we have convened a selection committee and we have named the appraiser or selected an appraiser, but that has not received the Procurement Office's approval yet. So we are just waiting for that approval, and should we get that approval, then we can actually enter into discussions and negotiations with the appraiser. COUNCIL MEETING 74 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any questions? What is the timeframe? Mr. Hull: We asked for ninety (90) days, but quite frankly and to be honest, this is new territory for us. We have never appraised these type of services before. We are actually not allowed to engage in discussions with that appraiser until we get approval from the Procurement Office. We anticipate, we are hoping ninety (90) days, but like I said, this is new territory. We have not procured these type of services before. Council Chair Rapozo: Is the Administration supporting this action? Mr. Hull: The Resolution? Council Chair Rapozo: Yes. Mr. Hull: The Administration is in support of acquiring access on this property for pedestrian access. Given the potential for exorbitantly lengthy time and costs, the Administration does not support the Resolution. Council Chair Rapozo: You just said they support it and they do not support it. We know today that the Resolution is a condemnation. Mr. Hull: Yes. Council Chair Rapozo: It is a request to move forward on condemnation, right? Mr. Hull: Correct. Council Chair Rapozo: Does the Administration support condemning this property? Mr. Hull: We do not support condemning this property. Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Thank you. Are there any other questions? Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: Why is a deferral dependent on this procurement? Mr. Hull: Well, at the last meeting, I believe the Council was requesting to have that figure before moving forward. So, we are just saying that we do not have the figure yet. We hope to have the figure for you folks shortly, but we just do not have it for you at this point. Councilmember Yukimura: I am pleased that you folks are having this experience because this is good expertise to have or to develop in terms of other properties that we may want to acquire in the future. So presumably when you do COUNCIL MEETING 75 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 get appraisers, you will include in the scope of work the first time, any and all compensatory values that might be important in the acquisition. Okay. Great. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions for the Planning Department? If not thank you, Ka`aina. There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows: Council Chair Rapozo: Is there further discussion before we entertain the motion? Councilmember Chock. Councilmember Chock: I do not know when this picture was taken here of McCaslin Point. I am just a little bit concerned about the conditions and if there is dumping occurring and the overgrowth on that easement, so I would just make a request for us to follow through on that easement. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there any other discussion before we entertain the motion to defer? It is kind of an interesting dilemma to be in where the Administration does not support it. What happens if the Council approves it? Then what? Councilmember Yukimura: They have to follow it. Council Chair Rapozo: Then they have to follow it. I do not know how they have to follow it. I thought we could not tell them to do anything. Mauna Kea, are you prepared to answer that question? Really, if you are not, that is fine. Okay. I do not know how we can make them do anything. Again, it is a dilemma because whether we agree or disagree with getting public access, we do not know what the cost is. It makes no sense, to me, to belabor this thing if the Administration is going to say no. It almost comes back to the Wailua Golf Course thing, Councilmember Kagawa. We went through all of that hurt with the concessionaire, only for the Mayor to come up and say, "We do not support it. We are not going to do it. If you pass it, we are still not going to do it." I guess what I do not want to see is this Council pass a resolution, we hire these attorneys, they are going to start the condemnation process, and the Mayor does not support it. The Planning Department does not support it. Typically what happens when we get a condemnation action request is that it comes from the Administration where they want to condemn property and they need the Council's approval. I have never seen where it is coming from an external Commission, so it is coming to us for us to approve telling the Mayor, "You have to do this." I do not think it is legal, but that is something to explore in the time of this deferral. Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: I would just like to have the County Attorney. Council Chair Rapozo: I will suspend the rules. There being no objections, the rules were suspended. COUNCIL MEETING 76 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Mr. Trask: Aloha, Mauna Kea Trask, County Attorney. Councilmember Yukimura: Mauna Kea, in terms of condemnation for public purpose, is that not a process that is in the Council's hands? Mr. Trask: Yes, under Charter Section 3.09, "The council shall by resolution determine and declare the necessity of taking property for public purposes, describing the property and stating uses to which it shall be devoted." Councilmember Yukimura: In other words, a resolution does not need approval of the Mayor. It is a resolution that the Council passes, so by passing a resolution for condemnation, we are initiating the process, are we not? Mr. Trask: It would appear so, but before I opine on it definitively, I would like the opportunity to research it because when you are dealing with the separation of powers and the dance back and forth, I just want to make sure I get it right. So I do not want to conclude today. Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. So if the Council passes a bill, it goes to the Mayor, he vetoes it, and the Council overrides his veto. So, let me go through it again. The Council passes a bill... Council Chair Rapozo: This is not a bill. It is a resolution. Councilmember Yukimura: I know. It is one (1) way of putting a law into effect. The Council passes a bill, it goes to the Mayor, he vetoes it, so he does not support it, it goes back to the Council, the Council overrides it, it becomes law, and the Mayor is obligated to enforce it, is he not? Mr. Trask: It depends, I guess. Council Chair Rapozo: This is a resolution, Mauna Kea. Mr. Trask: Yes. Let me just state for the record, I think the point Council Chair Rapozo is making is for example, you speak about this analogously. Say in the budget process, you pass and fund something. The Mayor is in his or her executive authority not to take advantage of that funding or do whatever. So in certain circumstances, I do not want to look like I am equivocating, but it is difficult to analogize things. Eminent domain is such a constitutional and fundamental right, the taking of private property, just compensation, public purpose. I want to make sure I get it right. That is all. Councilmember Yukimura: Then, in our question that goes to the Office of the County Attorney, we should ask whether if the Council passes a condemnation resolution, that those desiring the implementation of a resolution can file for a writ of mandamus to the Mayor to implement. (Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.) COUNCIL MEETING 77 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Mr. Trask: You can do that, under Rule 81 of the Hawai`i Rules of Civil Procedures, they have gotten rid of writs of mandamus. But we definitely can go look at that. Usually, writs of mandamus are only from superior courts to courts of inferior jurisdiction. But by all means, any and all written questions are appreciated and I, myself, am interested. Councilmember Yukimura: Then we can broaden to ask what the options are for securing enforcement and implementation of the resolution. Mr. Trask: Definitely. Councilmember Yukimura: Alright. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions? Thank you. Mr. Trask: Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: We will follow-up with our written questions to the Office of the County Attorney. There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follow: Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Chock. Councilmember Chock: I just think it is a really important question we are asking about accountability that we have struggled with since I have known, and even when things are passed by the Council, or asked by the Council, or the Council advocates and not followed for specific or whatever reason, that there is no real mechanism for us to follow through on. That is an issue with our system that needs to be addressed. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Well, that is the legislative system. That is the check and balance. Our only authority comes up in a few weeks in budget. If you do not like what they are doing, then you cut their budget. You cut it until it hurts. That is just the way it works. There is no other ability. The Mayor has that ability. He has the authority to do a lot of things. We control the funding. It is happened. It seems like all of the Council initiatives, a majority of them, never get implemented. (Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present.) Council Chair Rapozo: But yet, we keep giving the Administration what they want every year. So, the reality is that at some point, you put your foot down and say, "No." This is an entirely different scenario because typically, condemnation requires five (5) votes of the Council. That is typically the situation when the Administration is coming across to us to get the approval to condemn land, but this is a weird situation because the Administration is saying, "We do not support it" and we are basically trying to approve something that the Administration does not support. So the petitions and all of that, yes, we will forward them over to the COUNCIL MEETING 78 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Administration, but at the end of the day, in my opinion, it is their decision whether or not they move forward. I do not think we have the ability, this Council, has the authority to condemn property. I think our approval is required, but if that is the case, Mauna Kea, please tell me because there is a lot of property that I think we could condemn for housing if we can do it without the Mayor's approval. But I just do not think we have that authority. I just do not think we have it. But if we do, I would be curious to find out. Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: Well, I think the Mayor's hesitation is the cost and the cost is a budgetary item. We all are going to have to pay attention to that and it is the same thing with housing. I mean, it is always this weighing of factors. I really want to thank Tessie for the information that she has provided, especially the photos of all of these little narrow access ways that are so important to our people to get access to the beaches, places where our children can play, and where members of the community can fish and surf. This is part of our life and lifestyle and they may seem very small, little pieces of land, but they are so key in connecting us to the shoreline. So it just shows the importance of this issue to our community and if the Council passes this Resolution, hopefully the Mayor will honor that as part of people who represent the community saying, "This is important to us," and we will find a way to fund it. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. It is not about whether or not the access is needed, wanted, or desired, that is not my point. My point is whether or not the County Council has the authority to pass a resolution that the Administration will not implement. Anyway, I will entertain a motion to defer to May 17th. Councilmember Kagawa moved to defer Resolution No. 2016-60 to the May 17, 2017 Council Meeting, seconded by Councilmember Chock, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1 (Councilmember Kaneshiro was excused). Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. With that, we will take our lunch break. We will return at 1:35 p.m. There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 12:33 p.m. The meeting reconvened at 1:35 p.m., and proceeded as follows: (Councilmember Brun was noted as not present.) Council Chair Rapozo: Can we have the next item, please? Resolution No. 2017-16, Draft 1—RESOLUTION ADOPTING RULES OF THE COUNCIL OF THE COUNTY OF KAUAI FOR INVESTIGATIONS CONDUCTED PURSUANT TO SECTION 3.17 OF THE CHARTER OF THE COUNTY OF KAUAI AND REPEALING RESOLUTION NO. 2005-25, DRAFT 1 Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: We have two (2) registered speakers at this time. COUNCIL MEETING 79 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Councilmember Chock moved for adoption of Resolution No. 2017-16, Draft 1, seconded by Councilmember Yukimura. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. With that, I will suspend the rules. There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony. Council Chair Rapozo: Who is the first speaker? Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Our first registered speaker is Glenn Mickens, followed by Ben Kuhaulua. Mr. Mickens: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. For the record, Glenn Mickens. First, I just want to compliment all of the kids who were here in the audience today. I thought it was really refreshing to see those young men and women come in here and being interested in what is going on. I thank the teachers and the parents for the same thing. I thought it was really good and thank you for getting them here. You have a copy of my testimony. Please let me read it for the viewing public. I once again, want to thank Chair Rapozo for introducing Resolution 2017-16, Draft 1. If properly and when needed approved, this Resolution should go a long way in uncovering who is responsible for so much waste and wrongdoing in our system. However, Charter Section 3.17 has been in our Charter for years, maybe since was put in the Charter. The Council or any other authorized committee, emphasize added, thereof shall have the power conduct investigations or the operation of any agency or function of the County and any subject on which the Council may legislate. Resolution No. 2017-16, Draft 1 Section 2 says, "The purpose of these rules is to establish procedures that provide for the creation and operation of an Investigating Committee," emphasis added, "in a manner that will enable the Committee to properly perform its powers and duties,." In other words, Section 3.17 has always given the Council or any authorized committee, the same powers stated in Resolution No. 2017-16, Draft 1 that provide for the creation and operation of an Investigative Committee. Thus, if over the years, no Council has ever had a majority who wanted to conduct investigations under Section 3.17, what is this Resolution going to do to change that? A majority vote of the Council is still needed, right? Remember that I am a strong proponent of Section 3.17, but I just want to know how we can enact it and really make positive changes in our government. As with a committee formed to get a County Manager form of government in Kaua`i, the attention and the appointed members were very good, but a legal matter that a very solvable solution was never persued and a change that had the power to solve so many of Kaua`i's problems died. When this meeting is to called back to order, I and the public, would certainly appreciate hearing how this fine Resolution will be made to work and not just be put in a graveyard where so many other ideas and plans have died. Again, I really compliment you, Council Chair Rapozo, for introducing this Resolution. I think it is going to be at the bottom of so many things. I remember when you and Councilmember Hooser, I think it was, because of the illegal vacation rentals, that you wanted to have a 3.17 Investigation, but you did not get the votes, so it did not happen. Thank you very much. COUNCIL MEETING 80 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Mr. Kuhaulua. BEN KUHAULUA: Aloha. My name is Ben Kuhaulua and I live in Anahola. I am a resident of this island. I was born and raised here. I am a taxpayer. I watch all of the issues that come in the front of this Council through the media, through the newspapers, and the television. There are many issues that come up and every time I watch it, I get upset because the people you folks ask to explain what is going on, they do not have the answer or they give an answer that is not even the answer. The people out there in the public, I am talking for myself, I see things like that. In finding out that you folks have this tool in your toolbox, you should be using it. As Mr. Mickens was saying, it has been there for a while and nobody is using it. I heard Council Chair Rapozo say that it takes a majority of you folks up here, sitting at those desks to make it happen. I wish you folks do it because there are so many unexplained things out there that the public looks, the taxpayer looks at, reasons, listens, and watches you folks that is not being explained, and it is frustrating. There are so many times when the Department Heads comes up and cannot answer throughout this Administration of Kaua`i County from the Department of Parks & Recreation to the Department of Public Works. There are all kinds of issues; bike paths, golf course, or whatever it is. But I believe when it becomes a health and safety issue, not only for your County employees, but for the public, too, on health and safety issues, that is a priority. I believe as a taxpayer, watching you folks, that when these people cannot come up with the answer, at least a legitimate answer, and that I see you folks give them time, thirty (30) days or ninety (90) days to come back and they cannot come back, it is time to pull out this 3.17 Investigation to get down to it, to give us the people out there in the public, the taxpayers, the satisfaction that you folks are working for us because what I see personally is that when they come up here and speak, whatever department it is, if there is a hard question to answer, they reach out for Mr. Trask to come and state a rule, or regulation, or a law. Not knowing too much of government, but it looks like these people are trying to find a way out from somebody else helping them, but who helps us? If a 3.17 Investigation can help the public understand and give us the confidence that you are working for us, please use it. Please put it in effect. I do not know about resolutions and things like that, but if it was there, it was there already, just use it. You folks did not use it and you folks have to figure out how you are going to use it. The easiest way is to jump on the bike and ride. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else wishing to testify? Mr. Hart and then Mr. Freitas. Mr. Hart: For the record, Bruce Hart. I just want to say, in general, I am in support of this. I think a lot of the public, they are well-enough educated in school and they know their civil studies and whatever, but this is one of the primary authorities of the legislative branch of government. Congress has this and the State Legislators have this authority. So if anything that will help to expedite it to make it more efficient, I am for it. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Mr. Freitas. COUNCIL MEETING 81 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Mr. Freitas: Good afternoon, Council Chair Rapozo, Vice Chair Kagawa, Councilmembers, and staff. I am here today talking about... Council Chair Rapozo: State your name, Jerome. Mr. Freitas: My name is Jerome Freitas. I am here today to talk about Resolution No. 2017-16, Draft 1, relating to the 3.17 Investigation. First, I want to ask, did you ever use this before? Did you folks ever try to investigate by using this? Council Chair Rapozo: We tried. Mr. Freitas: How many times? One? And what happened? Council Chair Rapozo: It did not pass. Mr. Freitas: Who did not pass it? Council Chair Rapozo: You can just say your testimony and I can answer your questions after. Mr. Freitas: Okay. You have to get Council approval, right? Well, you folks better start listening now, all of you folks here. Like Council Chair Rapozo said, that is a good point. The only way you are going to get it done is by working together. You folks work for us. I am not against you folks. I like every one of you folks. Come on, that is why you have laws in the books. Look at the laws and do it. I do not play politics. I do it because I have to do it for the public. That is the bottom line. Another thing, how much would it cost the taxpayers if you folks want to use that 3.17 Investigation? How much would it cost for an investigation? Does anybody know? How much would it cost? Right now, we have got a lot of problems going on, right? I am not going to mention our roads. We have a lot of problems going on. I hope you folks can get together and work together for the benefit of the public. Friend or no friend, I do what I think is right for the public. I do not play any politics here. So like I said, I like all of you folks. You folks are doing a good job in a sense, but you have to be more vocal and look at the laws and what the law says. Thank you very much. I appreciate the time. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much. Mr. Freitas: Mahalo. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there anyone else wishing to testify for the first time? Second time? Mr. Mickens. Mr. Mickens: For the record, again, Glenn Mickens. Just a couple of examples of a 3.17 Investigation--what are you laughing about? The Kilauea Gym roof leaking for twenty (20) years, that is inexcusable. We must have pumped hundreds of thousands of dollars into attorney fees and everything else to find out why that roof was leaking. We gave a consultant here another—who was it when COUNCIL MEETING 82 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Lenny was up here? We gave them another twenty thousand dollars ($20,000) or fifty thousand dollars ($50,000), which is ludicrous. We are giving somebody like that money to tell us what is wrong with the roof? Why did we not just get a roofing contractor? He would have gone up here. He would not have hired a consultant to tell him how to do his job. That was one. The other one you have heard me over and over for years talking about, is illegally paved roads. After Larry Dill came in, the system was changed, but he was only here for what? About five (5)years or something like that. These things were what a 3.17 Investigation was made for, but the question arises, why? Why was it not used? Why were we reluctant to go ahead and investigate? Just like with Ernie Pasion and the audits he did. He was not pointing the finger at anybody in particular, but he let the facts come out whatever they happened to be, over and over. The eight (8) audits that he did were just outstanding. To this date, I still have not heard the Administration come back in here, the Department of Public Works or anybody, and say what was corrected in those things. The recommendations were made and they were supposed to go ahead and follow through, but I have not heard anybody ever come back and say, "Here is what we have done for corrective action." Anyways, these are all investigative methods and I would really like to see you folks do it. Thank you. Mr. Kuhaulua: Ben Kuhaulua. I just want to quote something from a past County Council Meeting I saw on television. I am quoting Councilmember Kagawa and he was just asking about—his comment was, "We do our investigation, we go through all these things, what are we going to do after we do investigation? Where are we going from there?" If you do a 3.17 Investigation and do your investigation, if the person did something good, commend him. If he did something wrong, discipline him. If it is something criminal, full extent of the law, take him to court or whatever you folks have to do make that wrong right. That is all I would like to say. Thank you very much. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Anyone else wishing to testify? There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows: Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion? Councilmember Chock. Councilmember Chock: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. Thank you for putting this Resolution together, too, as well. I think it is a good source of accountability. I just wanted to make sure we are clear that the 3.17 Investigation is a formal investigation tool. I think, for me, with the fact that we have never used it in our County is one thing and it brings up the question that we have a lot to learn about how to use it. I think it is a good first step. But I want to be able to use this tool with confidence so that we know it will provide the answers that we are seeking without expending a lot of resources or excess funding. What I would like to request is that kind of continue this process and look further into successful examples where a 3.17 Investigation been used so that when the situation arises, then we can decipher whether or not it is a certain kind of audit that we have used in the past or if, in fact, COUNCIL MEETING 83 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 that 3.17 Investigation is the one vehicle that should be utilized. Again, thank you for putting this forward. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: I too, and I have said in past, that I am glad that this Resolution formulating the Rules for a 3.17 Investigation has been put forth so that we could pass them and have them available because in the past, whenever 3.17 Investigations have been proposed or even thought about, it has not been clear what process we would follow. That makes it more difficult to cost out what an investigation would cost, and now that we have some rules, I think we have more clarity about how it is going to be conducted. I think that has removed an obstacle or an objection to doing 3.17 Investigations. I believe there is a real purpose and role for these investigations, but like any tool, it is not used for any and everything. We need to choose to use it in the right and appropriate circumstances and then to do it well. I think it would be good to check in other places to see how investigations of a similar nature have been conducted. Then, if we identify a place where it is really needed and appropriate, we should proceed to see how we can use it to solve a problem or resolve a problem area. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Anyone else? Well, the fact that we have not done 3.17 Investigations in past is not an indication that there was never an attempt. There were many attempts and discussions with me and former Council Chairs to get it on the agenda, and it was decided not to. There were numerous attempts. We did get that one (1) on for the Transient Vacation Rental (TVR) enforcement because the blogs were posting these flagrant violations of the law and our Planning Department just basically did not listen, did not do anything. The 3.17 Investigation was initiated or attempted to be initiated there was no support on the Council for that. One (1) of the constant objections, or reasons, or excuses is that we never did it before. If we never did it before, then if we do not do it, then it will always be that same excuse. The fact that we never really had established any rules is another problem. So this is just a simple start of a complex process that we need to do. (Councilmember Brun was noted as present.) Council Chair Rapozo: I think Ben said it best, you ask the person a question, he cannot answer the question, you ask the person again, bring him back, and defer. If this body is not getting what we are asking for, then absolutely, a 3.17 Investigation is in order. If there are issues that have occurred, as we have seen in this last year or two (2) involving certain departments that we do not believe we got the answers, or in fact, the actions taken were not what we believe were appropriate, then a 3.17 Investigation is appropriate. So I hope we use this tool. I really do. We also have the audit tool. I am hoping, after we saw the Kaua`i Humane Society results, I think that was a good trial for the Council to initiate an audit. Now, we should continue on the follow-ups of the audits that were done in the past. I believe we need to move forward on the follow-ups as well as some new audits going forward. But there is a big difference between a performance audit and an investigation. A performance audit is really to have an outside agency come in and look at the COUNCIL MEETING 84 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 operations going forward, finding inefficiencies. An investigation is different. An investigation is looking for things that may have been done wrong, subpoenas, and putting people under oath. That is just a higher standard, which I believe going forward, we need to utilize. I am hoping that we will have that opportunity going forward as we have this tool in our toolbox when we discuss possible actions of this body. I agree with Ben. To sit here and listen just a week or two (2) ago with Councilmember Yukimura asking a Department Head questions and being told, "I do not know. I cannot answer that, I cannot answer that." Really?A Department Head cannot answer that? It is just getting old and maybe if they cannot answer it here, maybe a Council investigation under oath may be a little more helpful. I just do not know what else to do. We have tried it. We have tried being collaborative, cooperative, and often times, we do not get the response that I believe we deserve or are entitled to and the public. So we will see how this thing pans out. I appreciate the support. I appreciate the amendments. I was out of the meeting last week, but I appreciate the amendments that were introduced and passed. I fully support them. It is just going to be good to have this in the toolbox. Are there any more comments? If not, the motion is to approve. Roll call. The motion for adoption of Resolution No. 2017-16, Draft 1 was then put, and carried by the following vote: FOR ADOPTION: Brun, Chock, Kagawa, Kawakami, Yukimura, Rapozo TOTAL— 6, AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL— 0, EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Kaneshiro TOTAL— 1, RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0. Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Six (6) ayes, one (1) excused. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Next item, please. Resolution No. 2017-17 — RESOLUTION CONFIRMING MAYORAL APPOINTMENT TO THE FIRE COMMISSION (Alfredo C. Garces): Councilmember Kagawa moved for adoption of Resolution No. 2017-17, seconded by Councilmember Yukimura. Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion? Is there any public testimony? There being no objections, the rule were suspended to take public testimony. There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and proceed as follows: Council Chair Rapozo: Seeing none, roll call. COUNCIL MEETING 85 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 The motion for adoption of Resolution No. 2017-17 was then put, and carried by the following vote: FOR ADOPTION: Brun, Chock, Kagawa, Kawakami, Yukimura, Rapozo TOTAL— 6, AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL — 0, EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Kaneshiro TOTAL — 1, RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0. Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Six (6) ayes, one (1) excused. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Next item. Resolution No. 2017-18 — RESOLUTION REQUESTING THE HAWAII STATE LEGISLATURE TO RECOGNIZE NOVEMBER 28 AS "LA KU`OKO`A" IN HONOR OF THE INDEPENDENCE DAY OF THE HAWAIIAN KINGDOM: Councilmember Kagawa moved for adoption of Resolution No. 2017-18, seconded by Councilmember Brun. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Councilmember Chock. Councilmember Chock: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. I do have a little bit of history and thought I could share and provide some context. I just want to thank Councilmember Kawakami for co-sponsoring this Resolution. In the Kingdom of Hawai`i, November 28th was an official holiday known as La Ku oho a or Independence Day. This is the day in 1843 when England and France formally recognized Hawai`i's independence. During the reign of King Kamehameha III, the Kingdom of Hawai`i was under threat of foreign takeover. The King decided it was necessary to send three (3) delegates to the United States and Europe to negotiate treaties and secure recognition of Hawai`i's independence. This task was led by overseas delegates, Timoteo Ha'alilio, William Richards, and George Simpson. It was accomplished on November 28, 1843. It marked the day of treaties of international recognitions were signed in London. On that day, Belgium, France, Germany, and the United Kingdom (UK) recognized Hawai`i as full-fledged member of the international community and these treaties were established subject to the law of nations. It became a holiday of the Independent Hawai`i Nation since 1844, when Kauikeaouli declared it so and stopped being so when the provisional government outlawed it in 1893. Although the Treaty of Independence did not solve Hawai`i's problems of being targeted by colonizers, it was a substantial achievement under international law. This achievement was recognized by the government of the Kingdom to the official celebration of La.,Ku oko a. After the ka in 1893 and the attempted counter ku in 1895, the so-called Republic of Hawai`i Government announced that November 28, 1895, a Thursday, would not be celebrated as La Ku`oko a, but that Thanksgiving would become the official national holiday instead. The colonizers of 1895 to 1896 not only deprived Hawai`i of a national holiday, they enacted laws which caused us to lose our language and related loss of our history. That process caused us to be deprived of even the COUNCIL MEETING 86 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 memory of this national holiday. Although initially, many ignored the government's orders and held annual celebrations of La Ku oko a, over time, the history, knowledge, and the holiday of how it was replaced was almost lost until Hawaiian language scholars started translating Hawaiian language newspapers and uncovered the history. Recently, there has been a renewed effort to revive the celebration of November 28th as La Ku oko a, Hawaiian Independence Day, to remember that Hawai`i was a fully recognized member of the world family of nations. I want to a friend, Kalaniakea Wilson, who pioneered this statewide revival a few years ago, as well as Professor Keao Nesmith, who has ushered our Kaua`i effort to this Resolution. My hope is that our Council can support the efforts around the State like Maui Council's Resolution and the previous Hawai`i Island Resolution that holds the same intentions. As a Native Hawaiian, I see the importance of recognizing and celebrating our past history and accomplishments that provide meaning and identity for many of the people who reside here. Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. I think we have an amendment to the current Resolution that, I think, is appropriate as it aligns with the Maui County and Hawai`i Resolutions. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kawakami, did you have anything to add as the co-introducer? Councilmember Kawakami: No. Thank you. I think he covered it well. I would just like to adopt those words as if they were my very own. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much. Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa moved to amend Resolution No. 2017-18, as circulated, and as shown in the Floor Amendment, which is attached hereto as Attachment 1, seconded by Councilmember Chock. Councilmember Kagawa: Basically, this amendment takes out "a State holiday." It takes out that language because I am very concerned that the Council would share its opinion to the State that it should be a State holiday. I think it should be a day of recognition for the significance that day represents, and I think it should be up to the Legislature whether they want to create another paid State holiday. I think it is their kuleana. If I want to make State decisions, then I will run for State office. But being this is a County Resolution, I just want to support the significance of what we are trying to support. However, creating a State holiday which is going to be a significant financial burden to all sectors of government, prison guards getting holiday pay, which is under the State. For the County, there are firefighters and police officers who get holiday pay. You have transfer stations--well, transfer stations are no longer on the holidays. But there are significant financial ramifications of adding another holiday, plus you are adding another holiday to State and County workers with already generous off day packages. They have forty-two (42) paid days a year for normal County workers, twenty-one (21) vacation, twenty-one (21) sick leave, and then you have all of the State and Federal holidays as well. So there comes a time when we have to recognize that there is a limit to the amount of holidays and COUNCIL MEETING 87 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 days off that we can provide and still be accountable to the taxpayers. Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Councilmember Chock. Councilmember Chock: I just want to provide my support for the amendment. I do not think we need to spend more money in order to recognize this. It does fall in line, as I once said before, with the Bill for an Act that is being submitted to the State Legislature by Maui Council that makes sure it recognizes not as a State holiday. I think it is better aligned that way. Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: I just wanted to reiterate that I am just saying there are financial concerns for the State to consider, but I am not saying that I believe it should not be a State holiday. I am just saying, let the State make that decision. They are elected to make those decisions. Let them just take our recommendation to support Maui and the Big Island in recognizing this particular day. Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Anyone else? We are on the amendment. Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. I want to say that I love the idea of honoring the Independence Day of the Hawaiian Kingdom, and I appreciate the co-sponsors for putting this on the table. I had the same considerations and concerns about calling it a State holiday and was going to ask what the fiscal ramifications would be of us advocating such a thing. I think we should know that, but with this amendment, I think it takes care of the issue and we can still honor the day and the historical event without getting into the fiscal implications, which I feel we are responsible to consider if they were included in the Resolution. But now, those impacts are no longer included, so I can fully support both the amendment and the Resolution, as amended. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Anyone else? If not, roll call on the amendment, please. The motion to amend Resolution No. 2017-18, as circulated, and as shown in the Floor Amendment, which is attached hereto as Attachment 1, was then put, and carried by the following vote: FOR AMENDMENT: Brun, Chock, Kagawa, Kawakami, Yukimura, Rapozo TOTAL— 6, AGAINST AMENDMENT: None TOTAL— 0, EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Kaneshiro TOTAL — 1, RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0. Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Six (6) ayes, one (1) excused. COUNCIL MEETING 88 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Council Chair Rapozo: We are back to the main motion, which is the approval of the Resolution. Is there any further discussion? How about some public testimony? There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony. There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows: Council Chair Rapozo: Seeing none, roll call. The motion for adoption of Resolution No. 2017-18, as amended to Resolution No. 2017-18, Draft 1, was then put, and carried by the following vote: FOR ADOPTION: Brun, Chock, Kagawa, Kawakami, Yukimura, Rapozo TOTAL — 6, AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL — 0, EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Kaneshiro TOTAL — 1, RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0. Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Six (6) ayes, one (1) excused. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Let us go back to C 2017-57. There will not be any action at this time. It is just a discussion. I would like to have the discussion now so when we go into Executive Session, we can release BC. Again, the purpose for the Executive Session was to discuss the potential hiring of an executive head-hunter for the position of the County Auditor. Since we started that discussion, we did receive the resume of someone that had expressed interest in the position, which is what we wanted to discuss in the back in Executive Session because it involves an application and an applicant. The discussion I wanted to have on the floor today was really, if we cannot agree on an Auditor applicant, that we would move forward and staff would move forward with the preparation of procurement of an executive head-hunting firm. That is the discussion that I wanted to have on the floor today to make sure there are no strong objections because if not, we will move forward, staff will, and that will be showing up on a future agenda in two (2) weeks if, in fact, the person that has submitted a resume does not get our interest. So that is the discussion. Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: I am very pleased to hear that we would be considering procuring the services of a head-hunter. It is something that I have advocated for. I think it would really continue this process that has been increasingly professionalized that I am very proud of at the Council level in terms of how we hire high level executives. I think it is worth a try and I know that the Police Commission did it once. As I understand how this thing works, it will not be only looking at applications, but actually looking at people who we might want to persuade to apply. So it is a very thorough search and it is a competitive process so the best can rise to the top. I think we all benefit when we can get the best possible person for the job. So we need to know what kind of costs we are looking at in procuring these services. COUNCIL MEETING 89 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 But I think it will be worth, as we know, making the right decision can just be a wonderful thing in terms of operations of the office and the position. If we do not make the right decision, it can be extremely expensive and counterproductive. So even if it costs a considerable amount of money, it could really be worth it. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Anyone else? Months ago this all started and we had gone through a bunch of applications and interviews. Councilmember Yukimura and Councilmember Chock both strongly advocated for a professional firm to go out and look. I thought we could secure someone locally, the majority of the Council did, and come to find out we were incorrect. It did not. We will give credit where credit is due, and I would like to publicly say we should have listened to Councilmember Yukimura and Councilmember Chock back then. We would have had this process done. It would have been well on the way, anyway. I just wanted to recognize these two (2) Councilmembers who did advocate for that. Again, we thought we could have done it locally. It is just a very difficult position to fill and hopefully as we move forward, the firm that we end up selecting will be able to find someone that will do a lot of good for this island. Councilmember Kagawa. Councilmember Kagawa: I just want to point out, Council Chair Rapozo, thank you for sharing a lot of my views on this topic. There are a lot of, I believe, qualified, local candidates out there. However, I think the stigma that the County Auditor job in being the person to find some faults that is happening in government, I think that is really the part where we are losing interest. I think the pay may be of a little concern, but I do not think it is the reason why we are not getting the local applicants. I think it is just the stigma of being the point-person and finding fault in the County and the pressure that comes with that. That is just my personal assessment. I just wanted to share that. Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kawakami. Councilmember Kawakami: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. I am starting to ponder perhaps this was a big mistake that we made by creating a new department. I think when we put it out to the voters, it sounded like a good idea, but of course, nobody knew how much it was going to cost us. When we have the Office of the County Auditor, they were just being blocked by the Administration from doing their work anyway. Here we are today with discussions on Section 3.17. I believe we do have some tools to do audits on our own, and the whole thought of an audit being a tool to go and catch people doing wrong, I think, is a misconception. The purpose of the audit is to find our strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, threats, and to really improve the whole process and organization, but often times I think people take it as an attack. The question becomes, when do we decide to perhaps determine whether or not this was a mistake and go and repeal this section, or perhaps put it out to the voters to say, "Hey, do you folks want a do-over?" In my opinion, I am not convinced this was necessary in the first place. I think that already when we are talking salaries, we are already questioning whether we have enough money to sustain what we have and then when we talk about Capital Improvement Project (CIP) and the very little resources that actually get to building more roads and improving roads, I think, this may be an opportunity to say "have we really missed this function in government?" Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. COUNCIL MEETING 90 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. I did not support it. I did not vote for it. I think this was a huge mistake back when it went to the voter because of course of the voters are going to support it. It is like the Department of Parks & Recreation and made Parks a different department. You do not tell the public the whole thing, right? It sounds attractive, more accountability, and save money. Both did not occur with the separation of Department of Parks & Recreation and the Department of Public Works. So it is tough to get everything that is going to be impacted or that is going to create costs in a ballot question. So yes, I agree. I think that it should go on the ballot to take it out because the amount of money we spend in that office would be much less if the Council just did the audits or the investigations themselves. It would still be done by an outside external agency. The problem is that we would have to wait for two (2) years in order to possibly get that on the ballot and we have to make a decision because we have to get someone hired, if not. If there is talk of a possible Charter amendment to get rid of the Auditor position, it is going to be even tougher to get that position filled knowing that right now, it is a six (6) year contract. So if we did have that Charter amendment undone, then we would still have to honor the contract that would be awarded for the next six (6) years. Councilmember Chock. Councilmember Chock: I think it is always good for us to question whether something is working well for us or not. I do not disagree with sort of the direction that is being spoken of; however, I do think that part of the discussion with the 3.17 Investigation today was it seems like we have the tools available and if we get more proficient at it, we can use audits properly. However, I think a big portion of this is the process that leads after that. How do we actually create the kind of change that is necessary? It requires a person who probably needs to stand in between both the Council and the Administration in order to implement some positive change that everyone can agree on while still maintaining good relationships and independency. My only point would be that we do not overlook that, how to accomplish the ultimate goals that we are seeking if we are to move in the direction of not having an Auditor. Thank you. Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: I think the usefulness of an Office of the County Auditor is the continuity that it provides, provided that we use that tool. If you say the Office of the County Attorney is a tool or one way to approach things. One (1) of the candidates that we interviewed was very qualified and experienced in doing performance audits on an ongoing basis, i.e., being part of an Office of the County Auditor. If we can really understand how that works at its optimum and then measure of the cost of that versus the cost of just getting independent audits, third-party, on a case-by-case basis because the one (1) disadvantage of the case-by-case is that you do not have the continuity for follow-up on that audit and the implementation of the things that are found in the audit, which possibly an Office of the County Auditor could do. Council Chair Rapozo: As I learned, I will not speak for everyone, but I know for me, when we interviewed the woman who we eventually gave the offer to, the Auditor's function where she came from and the kind of office she ran was not the COUNCIL MEETING 91 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 "I got you" type of audit. I was a service agency for all of the departments, much like the County Attorney is for us now. Although appointed by the Mayor, he serves the Council and serves every Department in the County. If we need help with a legal issue, his Office will help. It is the same way the Auditor should be. That is appointed by the Council, but that person should be available to the different agencies and departments for assistance in efficiency and performance. They should be able to call up the Office of the County Auditor, send over request to get help in this program, and I would assume that Auditor, that woman that we offered the job to, that is what she did. Her office went out and they were basically a service agency for the departments. Now, that is the paradigm switch with not the Marion Higa types of audits where every audit came back with somebody screwed up, but a proactive method where they would be a resource for the County Administration as well as the Council Services, that we could use to make our operation more efficient. But it takes and Administration that is willing to open their books and let them come in and take constructive criticism. If not, it is just another expense. Councilmember Yukimura. Councilmember Yukimura: I think it also was the Auditor, too, and to have a highly-professional, non-politicalized Auditor whose intention is to serve and make things better, not to catch somebody doing something wrong, really does make people more comfortable in opening up their processes. But it does take an intention on the part of the organization to constantly want to become better and better, open to improvement, open to evaluating process, seeing how we can be better, and that is an important element to cultivate as well. Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any further discussion? Did we get a motion to receive? I need a motion to receive. Councilmember Chock moved to receive C 2017-57 for the record, seconded by Councilmember Yukimura, and carried by a vote of 6:0:1 (Councilmember Kaneshiro was excused). Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. With that, that ends our official business of the day. We will just need someone to read us into Executive Session and then we can adjourn. EXECUTIVE SESSION: ES-894 Pursuant to Hawai`i Revised Statutes (HRS) Sections 92-4, 92-5(a)(2) and (4), and Kauai County Charter Section 3.07(E), the Kaua`i County Council requests an Executive Session with the County Attorney pertaining to the process of hiring a County Auditor, and related matters. This Executive Session pertains to the hiring of a County Auditor where consideration of matters affecting privacy will be involved as they relate to this agenda item. ES-895 Pursuant to Hawaii Revised Statutes (HRS) Sections 92-4, 92-5(a)(4) and (8), and Kaua`i County Charter Section 3.07(E), the purpose of this Executive Session is to provide the Council with a briefing on a communication dated February 7, 2017 from the Law Offices of Richard E. Wilson, LLC regarding Charles "Chucky" Rapozo, and related matters. This briefing and consultation involves COUNCIL MEETING 92 FEBRUARY 22, 2017 consideration of the powers, duties, privileges, immunities, and/or liabilities of the Council and the County as they relate to this agenda item. Councilmember Kagawa moved to convene in Executive Session for ES-894 and ES-895, seconded by Councilmember Yukimura. Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion? Is there any public testimony? There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony. There being no one present to provide public testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded as follows: The motion to convene in Executive Session for ES-894 and ES-895 was then put, and carried by the following vote: FOR EXECUTIVE SESSION: Brun, Chock, Kagawa, Kawakami, Yukimura, Rapozo TOTAL — 6, AGAINST EXECUTIVE SESSION: None TOTAL — 0, EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: Kaneshiro TOTAL — 1, RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0. Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Six (6) ayes, one (1) excused. Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. With that, we will reconvene in the Executive Session Chambers in five (5) minutes. The meeting is adjourned. ADJOURNMENT: There being no further business, the Council Meeting adjourned at 2:19 p.m. •spect ully submitted, JAD K. FOUNTAIN-TANIGAWA County Clerk :aa Attachment 1 (February 22, 2017) FLOOR AMENDMENT Resolution No. 2017-18, Relating to Requesting the Hawai`i State Legislature to Recognize November 28 as "La Ku`oko`a" In Honor of the Independence Day of the Hawaiian Kingdom Introduced by: Councilmember Ross Kagawa Amend Resolution No. 2017-18 as follows: 1) Amend the "Be It Resolved" paragraph to read as follows: "BE IT RESOLVED BY THE COUNCIL OF THE COUNTY OF KAUAI, STATE OF HAWAII, that it urges the Hawai`i State Legislature to amend Chapter 8, Holidays, Hawai`i Revised Statutes, to add the following section to be appropriately numbered: "§8- . La Ku`oko`a. November 28 of each year shall be known and designated as "La Ku`oko`a," [a State holiday,] in recognition of November 28, 1843, which was celebrated as Independence Day by the Hawaiian Kingdom." (Material to be deleted is bracketed.) 2) Amend the "Be It Resolved" paragraph in "Exhibit A" as follows: "E HOOHOLO IA E KA AHA 0 KE KALANA 0 KAUAI, MOKUAINA 0 HAWAII, he koi ka Aha i ka Ahaolelo o ka Mokuaina o Hawaii e hooponopono i ka Mokuna 8, Na La Nui, Na Kanawai o Hawaii i Hooponopono ia, e hoohui ia ai i ka pauku malalo nei i helu pono ia: "§8- . La Kuokoa. Nowemapa 28 o kela me keia makahiki, e hoomaopopo ia a hookohu ia, oia ka "La Kuokoa," [he la nui o ka Mokuaina,] i mea hoomanao no ka la 28 o Nowemapa 1843, oia ka la i hoolaulea ia ai ma ke ano oia ka La Kuokoa o ke Aupuni Moi o Hawaii." (Material to be deleted is bracketed.)