HomeMy WebLinkAbout03/14/2018 Council minutes COUNCIL MEETING
MARCH 14, 2018
The Council Meeting of the Council of the County of Kaua`i was called to order
by Council Chair Mel Rapozo at the Council Chambers, 4396 Rice Street, Suite 201,
Lihu`e, Kauai, on Wednesday, March 14, 2018 at 8:38 a.m., after which the following
Members answered the call of the roll:
Honorable Arthur Brun
Honorable Mason K. Chock
Honorable Ross Kagawa
Honorable Arryl Kaneshiro
Honorable Derek S.K. Kawakami
Honorable JoAnn A. Yukimura
Honorable Mel Rapozo
APPROVAL OF AGENDA.
Councilmember Chock moved for approval of the agenda as circulated,
seconded by Councilmember Yukimura.
Council Chair Rapozo: For your information, we are going to take up
the interview, then we are going to take Resolution No. 2018-13 right after that
because we have some visiting Representatives that need to get back to O`ahu, and
then we will do the tourism briefing right after that. With that, is there any
discussion or public testimony?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
The motion for approval of the agenda as circulated was then put, and
unanimously carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item, please.
MINUTES of the following meeting of the Council:
January 21, 2018 Public Hearing re: Resolution No. 2018-03 and Bill No. 2686
February 7, 2018 Council Meeting
February 7, 2018 Public Hearing re: Bill No. 2682, Bill No. 2683, Bill No. 2684,
and Bill No. 2685, and Bill No. 2686
(Bill No. 2686 was inadvertently placed on the March 14, 2018 Council Meeting
Agenda and read into the record.)
COUNCIL MEETING 2 MARCH 14, 2018
Councilmember Kaneshiro moved to approve the Minutes as circulated,
seconded by Councilmember Brun.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion or public testimony?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
The motion to approve the Minutes as circulated was then put, and
unanimously carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item, please.
INTERVIEW:
CHARTER REVIEW COMMISSION:
• Charles P. Stack — Partial Term ending 12/31/2019
Council Chair Rapozo: Mr. Stack, if you could come up real quick.
Thank for agreeing to serve. We are going to allow you a couple of minutes to
introduce yourself, let us know why you are interested in serving, and then we will
open it up for some questions.
CHARLES P. STACK: My name is Patrick Stack. I have been a
Commissioner for the Charter Review Commission for something like seven (7) years.
I filled in for somebody that retired and then had two (2) two-year terms. I have
taken a hiatus due to the Charter's recommendation about sitting out one (1) year,
and now I am back. Why am I doing this? I am not sure. But I believe in my heart
of hearts, it is not only my kuleana, it is all of us. We have a necessary obligation to
oversee what happens in government and make beneficial and necessary changes.
That is about it. As far as myself if you are interested in details, I worked for
twenty-two (22)years on Wall Street, retired to Kaua`i twenty-five (25) years ago, and
in that time, I served as Executive Director of Habitat for Humanity. As a Mediator,
I have done over one hundred fifty (150) mediations through the Fifth Circuit Court.
That is about it. I am the proud parent of four (4) grandchildren who go to school in
Kanuikapono Public Charter School & Learning Center in Anahola. What else have
I got to say? Not much, so I will stop there.
Council Chair Rapozo: Alright. Thank you very much, again. Are
there any questions for Mr. Stack? Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Hi. Thank you very much for being here
today. In the application form it says, "Please indicate why you are interested in
serving and what you understand to be the primary duties of the appointment," and
you have one (1) word: kuleana. Could you explain?
COUNCIL MEETING 3 MARCH 14, 2018
Mr. Stack: Well, it is our moral and civic duty to do
certain things that support the whole here, and I would like to be part of that. I think
the best way I can do it is by offering my services as a Commissioner.
Councilmember Yukimura: What do you understand to be the primary
duties of the Charter Review Commission?
Mr. Stack: To make beneficial and necessary changes to
the Charter.
Councilmember Yukimura: What do you understand to be the role of the
Charter?
Mr. Stack: The role of the Charter is to oversee what you
folks do and if we deem it necessary, we will make certain amendments to the
upcoming election.
Councilmember Yukimura: In dealing with amendments, there are kind
of two (2) philosophies: one is throw something on the ballot and let the people decide,
or it is we are the gatekeepers. We need to make sure that whatever goes on, at least
we are convinced that it will be good for the community. I just wondered what your
philosophy is.
Mr. Stack: Well, once again, it says in our Charter that
our duty is to make necessary and beneficial changes. That can be daunting because
I remember in the 2016 election, we had something like thirty (30) different proposals
for amendments, which in my opinion, is ridiculous because most people are confused
when they go into the voter's booth anyway, and to make it unnecessarily more
difficult is not our goal. Our goal is to simplify it and once again, to make beneficial
and necessary changes.
Councilmember Yukimura: How do you determine whether something is
beneficial or not?
Mr. Stack: It is arbitrary.
Councilmember Yukimura: It is?
Mr. Stack: I think it is. It is arbitrary inasmuch as any
one of the seven (7) Commissioners, but I think there are only five (5) at this time,
can make certain proposals. But I do not want the Charter Review Commission to be
used as a political tool, which in past, I think, it has. It is once again, our duty and
our responsibility to do best job we can, and also be realistic about the amendments
that go on. We have heard some ridiculous proposals from the public about certain
amendments, and I think the Commissioners of the Charter Review Commission
have to be judicious about what they allow to be amended and what they do not.
Councilmember Yukimura: I am glad to hear that. The thing is, if you are
not going to make it based on the public, that is weigh how many people come in
COUNCIL MEETING 4 MARCH 14, 2018
speak in favor and how many speak against, you have to have some other criteria.
Steven Kaui calls it, "due north" so you know whether it is good or not for the
community. How do you personally make that judgment?
Mr. Stack: Through deliberation.
Councilmember Yukimura: Through?
Mr. Stack: Deliberation. If someone puts forward a
proposal, each Commissioner has an obligation to thoughtfully consider it and soberly
administer it.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. You have been on the Charter Review
Commission for as you mentioned several years, do you have some thoughts about
some specific things in the Charter that should change?
Mr. Stack: No. I think it is, once again, my duty as a
Commissioner of the Charter Review Commission is not to put forth things that I
think are good, but rather what the community thinks is good.
Councilmember Yukimura: But how do you know what the community
thinks is good?
Mr. Stack: Well, because I proposed and we ended up
doing visits to the community. We would go out to west side, the north shore, and
right here in Lihu`e and ask the public how they feel about certain issues. That is
what I consider very important because I am not there for me. I am there for the
community, and that is fifty-one percent (51%) of the community, not forty-nine
percent (49%).
Councilmember Yukimura: But how do you tell what fifty-one
percent (51%) of the community understands, or knows, or supports?
Mr. Stack: Because in our community meetings, we more
or less set the ground rules in terms of what we are going to discuss and what our
limitations are.
Councilmember Yukimura: But the number of people that you hear from
does not necessarily mean that reflects fifty-one percent (51%) of the community.
Mr. Stack: Once again, as a Commissioner, I was very
aware of the different gadflies, if you will, that come to your meetings that just like
to hear themselves talk versus trying to identify changes that are beneficial and
necessary.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, so there is something that has to help you
determine what is beneficial and necessary.
COUNCIL MEETING 5 MARCH 14, 2018
Mr. Stack: Once again, it is arbitrary. I determine in my
own mind by listening to the public. Once again, I am not there for me. I am there
for the public and want to exercise their desires.
Councilmember Yukimura: The thing is that you spend more time on it
than most people. You really develop an expertise and familiarity with the Charter
and a familiarity with the issues. Most people have not even read through the
Charter. In that process, has there been things that come to the surface that you
think need to be changed in order to allow for better governance of the community?
Mr. Stack: I am not sure.
Council Chair Rapozo: I think he already answered that question,
Councilmember Yukimura. You have asked the same question several times. He
said, "No." Try to get to a question that he has not answered.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Mr. Stack: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: I just want to thank you for your past service
and for putting your name out again based on your answers. I thank Councilmember
Yukimura for asking a lot of the questions. In my mind, you hit a home run. I want
to thank you. Those were great answers and I hope to see you go through and carry
forward those things that you bring about and continue. Thank you.
Mr. Stack: Thank you very much.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kawakami.
Councilmember Kawakami: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. Mr. Stack,
I also want to mirror that sentiment and thank you for your willingness to serve.
These are all voluntary Commissions. There are certainly other ways you could spend
your time. So just the fact that you are part of the ten percent (10%) that is willing
to do ninety percent (90%) of the work, we want to really thank you. I have been able
to watch and observe the Charter Review Commission. It was the first Commission
that I got to serve on. I actually really appreciate that you do not immediately see
any big change that you would like to make because that Charter is our blueprint and
any proposed change could have these big unintended consequences that we have
seen in past, so I like that. I love the fact that these are Commissions. So your
knowledge and your decision-making is based on a series of events that happened in
your life that form who you are and your opinion. I have gotten to watch you be a
really good listener and make very good, sound decisions. I am happy that you are
willing to serve. I am looking at the make-up of the Charter Review Commission and
it is really diverse. I appreciate that you come with this outside perspective as well.
Thank you for your willingness to serve.
COUNCIL MEETING 6 MARCH 14, 2018
Mr. Stack: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kaneshiro, and then
Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: I just want to mirror what everyone is saying.
I know you were asked a whole bunch of questions. I think you did a very good job in
answering them. I like your attitude. I think it shows that you have been through
the trench with all your experience being on the Charter Review Commission for
six (6) years. I can tell you gained experience there knowing that you are not coming
on to push an agenda or anything. You are open, you are going to see what the public
wants, you are going to try to separate things that do not make sense at all, and then
you are going to try to put things on that make sense and people want. I really
appreciate that mentality, balance, and reasonableness in you. For me, I think I tell
every Charter Review Commission applicant that comes up is that maybe one (1)
thing that might make it easier on the ballots is if they word all of the questions in a
way that maybe a "yes" means you are changing and a "no" means you are not
changing. Sometimes you read it, and one is if you vote "yes," then you are changing
how we do government. On the next one, if you vote "yes," you are not changing how
we do government. It is pretty confusing. I get a lot of people calling and saying,
"How do I vote you vote on these?" It is you vote "yes" on this one if you want a change
and "yes" on that one if you do not want a change. It would be a lot easier to just tell
people, "A `yes' vote means that you want to see that change. A `no' vote means that
everything stays the same." It might make it a little simpler, but I know a lot of
people get very confused when it comes to voting on the Charter Amendments. That
is just a little input from my side. Thank you.
Mr. Stack: Thank you.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you. Thank you for returning for more,
Mr. Stack. I appreciate your service. I do also appreciate the approach that you were
speaking of. While I think none of us come without any opinions, values, perspectives,
or beliefs, I think that to remain in a place of objectivity so that you can hear all sides
and allow the community—one of the things that I also really want to acknowledge
because I have received comments about is openness and availability to the
community in terms of voicing needs and concern, is that community outreach. I am
hoping that can continues with what you have experienced and maybe even be
strengthened so that all voices are heard and considered. Thank you.
Mr. Stack: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: I have another question that was triggered by
the others. Some of the feedback we get from the public is that it is very hard to
understand what is being proposed and is on the ballot. My question is, do you think
and would you work for a system of explanations or education once the ballot has
been set? I think California has a booklet that describes it and has the pros and cons
statements that are written by the advocate of each side. I think based on what I
COUNCIL MEETING 7 MARCH 14, 2018
hear from the public, they would appreciate that kind of educational guide or
brochure.
Mr. Stack: I agree. I think there should be some sort of
pamphlet that states in plain English what the proposal or the amendment is. I
would admit that six (6) or seven (7) years ago, when I started on the Commission, I
did not know what a Charter review was. I did not even know what a Charter was.
I have since, of course, learned what the Charter is. It is, in fact, an organic document
that needs to be updated. It needs to be changed. I see the Charter Review
Commission as the most important Commission that the County has because it sets
the tone, it sets the parameters, and it sets the boundaries for what you can do for
the community. Not to be Pollyannaish about it, but I personally think you folks do
a fantastic job. I would like to see some collaboration between your body here and
the Commission that I hope to be a Commissioner on.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you.
Mr. Stack: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Anyone else? If not, Mr. Stack,
thank you again. I remember the first time we met. I do not know if you remember.
Mr. Stack: I remember.
Council Chair Rapozo: I was back in Borders Bookstore.
Mr. Stack: That is right.
Council Chair Rapozo: It must be close to twenty (20) years ago now.
Mr. Stack: Yes. It seems that way.
Council Chair Rapozo: And I remember that you wanted to serve the
County in some capacity.
Mr. Stack: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: As a volunteer.
Mr. Stack: Right.
Council Chair Rapozo: Not looking for a job. That was a long time
ago.
Mr. Stack: Right.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you for your service. I know you do a
great job at the Courts as well. I know Councilmember Yukimura asked the question
about how you get that feedback from community and how you know when you are
COUNCIL MEETING 8 MARCH 14, 2018
hearing from the majority. Like us, we are out and about throughout the day. You
are at the Courthouse. You are talking to all kinds of people; people in trouble or
people that need help. We get our information from all kinds of streams and I am
just happy to see you still willing to serve. Thank you.
Mr. Stack: A glutton for punishment.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes. Thank you very much.
Mr. Stack: Okay. Are you done with me?
Council Chair Rapozo: We are done.
Mr. Stack: Thank you so much.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Council Chair Rapozo: Have a good day. With that, let us just do the
Consent Calendar and then we will take Resolution No. 2018-13 so that we can get
the Communication out of the way.
CONSENT CALENDAR:
C 2018-56 Communication (01/26/2018) from the Mayor, transmitting for
Council consideration and confirmation, Mayoral appointee Jonelle L. Jardin to the
Police Commission—Term ending 12/31/2020.
C 2018-57 Communication (02/14/2018) from Councilmember Chock,
transmitting for Council consideration, a Resolution Amending Resolution
No. 2017-02 And Resolution No. 2017-51, Relating To The Rules Of The Council Of
The County Of Kauai For The Organization Of Committees And The Transaction Of
Business, which returns the Planning Committee back to the original structure of
five (5) voting members and two (2) ex-officio members, as the Council has completed
its work relating to the General Plan Update.
C 2018-58 Communication (02/15/2018) from Councilmember Chock,
transmitting for Council consideration, a Resolution Repealing Resolution
No. 2017-03 And Resolution No. 2017-52, And Appointing The Chairpersons, Vice
Chairpersons, And Members Of The Several Standing Committess Of The Council Of
The County Of Kaua`i so that the Planning Committee reverts back to the original
structure of five (5) voting members and two (2) ex-officio members, as the Council
has completed its work relating to the General Plan Update.
C 2018-59 Communication (02/27/2018) from the Economic Development &
Intergovernmental Relations Committee Chair, transmitting for Council
consideration, a Resolution appointing Councilmember Mason K. Chock to the
Western Interstate Region Board of Directors for the term ending June 30, 2018.
COUNCIL MEETING 9 MARCH 14, 2018
C 2018-60 Communication (03/02/2018) from Council Chair Rapozo,
transmitting for Council consideration, a Resolution Opposing H.B. No. 1665, H.D. 1,
Relating To The Transient Accommodations Tax.
Councilmember Yukimura moved to receive C 2018-56, C 2018-57, C 2018-58,
C 2018-59, and C 2018-60 for the record, seconded by Councilmember Brun.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there any discussion or public
testimony?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
The motion to receive C 2018-56, C 2018-57, C 2018-58, C 2018-59, and
C 2018-60 for the record was then put, and unanimously carried (Pursuant to
Rule No. 5(b)of the Rules of the Council of the County of Kauai, Councilmember
Kagawa was noted as silent (not present), but shall be recorded as an
affirmative for the motion).
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item.
There being no objections, Resolution No. 2018-13 was taken out of order.
RESOLUTIONS:
Resolution No. 2018-13 — RESOLUTION OPPOSING H.B. NO. 1665, H.D. 1,
RELATING TO THE TRANSIENT ACCOMMODATIONS TAX
Council Chair Rapozo: Can I get a motion? A motion to approve
would be nice.
Councilmember Kaneshiro moved for adoption of Resolution No. 2018-13,
seconded by Councilmember Chock.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there any discussion? I just
wanted to introduce or at least discuss the reasoning for the Resolution. It was about
a week-and-a-half or so ago I found out that House Bill (H.B.) 1665 House
Draft (H.D.) 1 had passed our State House of Representatives. In my opinion,
H.B. 1665, H.D. 1 was very detrimental to Kaua`i. I think for those of you that have
been follow the Transient Accommodations Tax (TAT) issue over the years, the
Counties have not been treated nicely or fairly. I do not believe we have. As we read
in the papers, it seems like every day you cannot read a story in the paper that does
not talk about tourism, that does not talk about the increasing number of visitors,
the increasing numbers of spending, the increase in numbers of dollars collected by
the State in TAT revenue and General Excuse Tax (GET) revenue, and yet, I do not
know.
COUNCIL MEETING 10 MARCH 14, 2018
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present.)
Council Chair Rapozo: I get the sense that every chance the State
Legislature has, they try to take more from the Counties. When this Bill passed, this
Bill originated from the Conference of Mayors in their legislative package. They put
a bill in there that would restore our TAT back to what the task force of a few years
ago recommend, which is where Counties would share forty-five percent (45%) of the
TAT revenues and the State would get fifty-five percent (55%). That was what the
Mayors submitted. Then, the House ripped all that out and then put in a provision
that said, "We are going remove the cap of one hundred three million
dollars ($103,000,000) and instead, we are going to force the Counties to submit for
reimbursement. So whenever you believe you have an expense related to tourism,
you send us a bill and we will determine whether or not it qualifies. You have
ninety (90) days to do that or you lose that right." Now, I am not an economist nor
an accountant, but I know one thing. I submit reimbursement requests for various
things in my private life. I know one thing,the State is the slowest to pay, the slowest.
But not only that, for this County, our County, and I am not talking about the other
Counties. I am talking about our County, for us to take on the burden of preparing
invoices means every Department is now going to have to create an invoice or a
statement of what expense they can tie to tourism, and by the way, that does not
include police and fire. That does not. They will not reimburse us for police and fire,
unless it is to enforce the Transient Vacation Rental (TVR) violations. So that kind
of puts the County in a horrible spot. Where do we have the resources to do that?
How are we going to allocate a percentage to a public park or a restroom? What are
we going to say? Are we just going to pick a number and say, "Do you know what?
Maybe this month, forty percent (40%) of the use was attributed to visitors, so we will
just put forty percent (40%) and then have State look at it." Then, the State is going
to say, "We do not think it is forty percent (40%). Prove it that it is forty
percent (40%)." Then, on the State side, they have to collect all of these requests for
reimbursements from all of the four (4) Counties. They do not have the resources to
do that either.
When I read this Bill, to me, it just struck me that this was a very vindictive
Bill. This was a Bill that was aimed at the Counties. I am going it say it. I think it
was aimed to punish us. This Bill makes no sense, absolutely no sense. I sent letters
out to our Delegation on Kaua`i, and I was really happy. Representative Tokioka is
here today. I invited all of them to come here today to share with us the logic that
the State had to introduce and pass this Bill. Representative Tokioka voted against
the Bill, but he was only one from our Kauai Delegation to vote against it. The other
two (2) Representatives voted in support of this Bill. Now, I received a call from
Representative Nakamura and she was not happy that I had introduced this
Resolution in opposition. It was not a friendly phone call. In my opinion, it was a
very disturbing phone call. She said I was standing in the way of them working to
get Kauai more money. I have a Bill that was passed out of House that I think is
ripping apart the County's TAT money. "Well, Council Chair Rapozo, you have to
trust me. We are work on something else." Well, the bottom-line is that for me, as
this Bill moves across to the Senate, I think we need to let the Senate know, "Hey, we
do not support this." Whatever they are doing in addition to this or if they are
working on something else, God bless them and I hope they come to some agreement
COUNCIL MEETING 11 MARCH 14, 2018
where we can get more money. But I have not seen anything. She could not tell me
what they were working on. So to me, I felt the need to react to this action, the
passage of H.B.1665 at the State level. I have Representative Tokioka and actually,
Representative Say is here as well. I am not sure if Representative Say is going to
speak, but like I said, I asked all three (3) of our delegation members to come here
today to explain to the public why. With that, I am not sure who wants to come up
first, but I will suspend the rules. You both can come up.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Council Chair Rapozo: Have you been here before?
CALVIN K.Y. SAY, Representative, District 20: No.
Council Chair Rapozo: Welcome. We just need to start with your
names for our captioner.
Representative Say: Hi, I am Representative Calvin Say from
District 20; Saint Louis Heights, Palolo Valley, Wilhelmina Rise, and Kaimuki.
JAMES KUNANE TOKIOKA, Representative, District 15: Jimmy
Tokioka, State Representative, District 15, former Councilmember, and friends to all
you here. Thank you for this opportunity, Council Chair Rapozo, to come and talk
about the concerns that you as a Council Chair and the body has had about this
particular Bill. I heard your introduction and you hit all of the detrimental points to
the Counties in your introduction of it. Speaker Emeritus Say was another person
who did not vote for it. As a group, some of us meet and talk about concerns for bills,
good and bad. When we saw this Bill, we were like, "Wow." We could not believe it.
I cannot sit here and tell you, and I am not sure the Representative Say can either,
why it was drafted in the way it was drafted. But it does seem punitive to the
Counties. Ever since I got to the State House in 2006, my good friend here,
Representative Say, used to criticize me. He used to tell my, "Representative
Tokioka, you are no longer a Councilmember. You are a State Representative." But
as Councilmember Kawakami knows and you all know, if you get to a different place,
you cannot forget where you came from. I know clear and well all of the work that
you folks, the staff, and the Administration do every day to serve the County. When
we say "serve the County and constituents," we are talking about the same people.
Our constituents are your constituents. The issues may be a little bit different, but
having said that, as somebody who has been a Speaker for fourteen (14) years, I
thought it would be a good perspective bring Representative Say.
I want to share a little bit of history. The cap was put on to the Countys' TAT
at time where we were in the Great Recession for the State. I know no County wanted
to see that happen, but it was put on there. I was in meeting with Representative
Say when he said, "This is temporary. When we get out, we will remove the cap."
Unfortunately, when revenues got better, Calvin Say was no longer the Speaker. As
you know, the cap was not removed and it what is it is. When this Bill came out and
it was zeroed out, you are absolutely right, Council Chair Rapozo. I will give you
another example about State and reimbursements. We just passed House Bill 1 last
year in September or October.
COUNCIL MEETING 12 MARCH 14, 2018
Representative Say: It was Session Special.
Representative Tokioka: Special Session of 2017. When we passed that
Special Session, part of the agreement of that Bill was that Honolulu Authority of
Rapid Transportation (HART) and the City and County of Honolulu would get
reimbursed through a certified accounting receipt system. Since that time, they have
not gotten reimbursed one (1) penny. They are out eighty-two million
dollars ($82,000,000) as of right now. To this day, they are out eighty-two million
dollars ($82,000,000). We were sitting with Ford Fuchigami and other leaders of the
State to talk about it. They said, "If we approve this and there are concerns, then we
are going to be responsible, the State." This is a City project. The Honolulu Rail
Transit Project (Rail) was a City project. So if you are concerned about getting
reimbursed, I would be, too. I would just give you that example, eighty-two million
dollars ($82,000,000).
Council Chair Rapozo: Really quick, it is important to note as well
and I know Representative Say, thank you for...unfortunately, yes when the
recession came back, you left. But also, the TAT rate was to be lowered as well. The
TAT was raised, right? So they put cap and they raised the TAT with the promise,
when I go back and read all of the minutes, with the promise that once we got out of
the hole, the TAT would be restored to the Counties and the TAT rate would go back
to what it was before. If you look now, it is up. It went up again, so it went up twice.
Representative Tokioka: Oh, are you talking about the nine point two
five percent (9.25%)?
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, which is now ten percent (10%).
Representative Tokioka: Okay.
Council Chair Rapozo: But that was increased...
Representative Tokioka: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: ...with the TAT cap to the Counties. But the
promise was that the cap would be removed and the TAT rate would be restored back
to its original rate, which is a percent less.
Representative Tokioka: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: It was one percent (1%) and one percent (1%).
It actually went up two percent (2%).
Representative Tokioka: Yes, correct.
Council Chair Rapozo: That has never been restored either. I think
it is important that at the end of the day, what it means is that State has been
enjoying a ton of revenues from the TAT.
COUNCIL MEETING 13 MARCH 14, 2018
Representative Say: That is correct. But let me start off by saying
this, first and foremost, thank you very much to all of you for being public servants.
I think Councilmember Yukimura and I are the longest serving members of public
service. I just wanted to share my personal mana o with all of you. We are in a
generation where a lot of our members are unaware of their history, grandparents,
great grandparents, their forefathers, their elders, kupuna, and seniors. In 1976
when I first got elected, one (1) your Representatives and former Mayor Uncle Tony
was telling me the story about how he set the ceiling on all hotels, which was the
highest coconut tree, if you recall that analogy. Secondly, a lot of members did not
realize that we are all in one (1) canoe. We are. One million four hundred
thousand (1,400,000) individuals with the four (4) Counties, which is called the State
of Hawaii. I believe you are correct about House Bill 1665, House Draft 1 that passes
the State House. I also voted "no," but I also voted "no" on three (3) other TAT bills.
I disagree with the present leadership in regards to having these bills with the
defective dates and I disagree with the present leadership in regards to having blank
appropriations or blank amounts in the bills. Why? Very is simple. If we are going
to pass bills like this, what is the position of the House on third reading? I voted "no"
on three (3) other bills on the GET, the General Excise Tax, in regards to wholesalers
in trying to target Amazon, which is tangible personal property.
This morning, I think, not I think. I truly believe that what you have stated
for the record is correct, that House Bill 1665, House Draft 1 may be a vehicle for the
Senate to use. I just wanted to share with you a few thoughts for your consideration
and I will be more than happy to submit it when I get back to Honolulu about the
revenues. Did you know that the TAT collections totaled five hundred million four
hundred thousand dollars ($500,400,000) for Fiscal Year 2017? It is an increase of
thirteen point eight percent (13.8%) from the four hundred forty-six million eight
hundred thousand dollars ($446,800,000) collected in Fiscal Year 2016. In Fiscal
Year 2017, collections from the TAT were distributed at follows. Yes, I apologize to
all of you as the former Speaker that when I asked the Chair of Finance Committee
to set the ceiling at one hundred three million dollars ($103,000,000) to the Counties,
and that was in regards to all of you realizing the Great Recession that America and
the States all had. Of that, twenty-six million five hundred thousand
dollars ($26,500,000) went to the Convention Center Enterprise Special Fund;
eighty-two million dollars ($82,000,000) to the Tourism Special Fund, which is
Hawaii Tourism Authority (HTA), the Hawaii Visitors Bureau, and the other
Counties' visitor bureaus; one million five hundred thousand dollars ($1,500,000)
went to the Turtle Bay Conservation Easement Special Fund in the acquisition; three
million dollars ($3,000,000) to the Special Land And Development Fund; and the
remainder for all of you to recognize, two hundred ninety-two million four hundred
thousand dollars ($292,400,000) went to the General Fund. It reflects that through
all of these, the TAT for Fiscal Year 2008 through 2017 grew by about five to six
percent (5-6%). Why I bring this up is primarily because yes, both Representative
Tokioka and I are given the opportunity and privilege of introducing legislation. The
record will show I had introduced measures in lifting the ceiling of one hundred three
million dollars ($103,000,000). The record will show I also wanted to increase the
ceiling for the conveyance tax. People like you and I, the taxpayers, that pay taxes
on our property taxes on the conveyances. The record will also show that I supported
the increase in the ceiling for the barrel tax, which helps Natural Area Reserves
COUNCIL MEETING 14 MARCH 14, 2018
System (NARS), natural reserves, rental housing trust funds, et cetera. What I am
getting at this morning is that if there is another proposal and I think the Council
will see there is another proposed House Draft 1 dealing with Senate Bill 1648, you
would have to walk a very cautious line. I would recommend that if it is possible for
the Council to consider, ask these hard questions. Why is O`ahu left out? Was it to
placate those neighbor island colleagues who have to vote "no" on the TAT and GET
on the rail?
Representative Tokioka: To vote "yes."
Representative Say: Yes. Correct, to vote "yes." Why is there a
twelve (12) year sunset of 2030? It must be tied to the Special Session bill that was
very contentious. Finally, what Representative Tokioka said for the record is awfully
true. I am not a person to micromanage the Counties.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Representative Say: Why can we not go back to the old days when
Councilmember Yukimura and I were on the Council and I was in the House, that we
used to give pork to the Counties until we created the TAT? What you used that
money for is your business. I am not here to micromanage you, but it is your business
where a lot of members forgot the inception of the Transient Accommodations Tax
was tied in replacing our pork that each of the four (4) Counties got. In closing, those
are some of my thoughts. Representative Tokioka is correct in that you will have to
address the unintended consequences. I am HART. I give my invoice to the City, the
City gives to what Department? Does anyone know? DAGS, the Department of
Accounting General Services. The scary part is that we do not have the personnel to
audit the invoices if that particular section of the project has been complete, and
maybe that is why it has taken almost eight (8) months to even get reimbursed for
those construction invoices. But the next step, like how you run County government,
if you have a Department of Accounting General Service, the Bill that was passed
during Special Session then goes to have it certified by DAGS and paid by Budget
and Finance. It is two (2) steps. How long will it take? Well, for this particular
legislation, the Special Session Bill, if the City is not getting reimbursed at this point
in time, I think all three (3) Counties should be aware of it. In today's budget that
was adopted on Tuesday, there was a line item for three (3) more Auditors for the
Department of Accounting General Services. The scary part is this, if you know how
State governments operates, when a measure like the budget is adopted and there
are position accounts in the budget in the line items of each of the respective
Departments, you will first have to get approval of Budget and Finance that the
moneys are available. When Budget and Finance agrees, guess where it goes? You
folks have the same problem like the State. We call it "DHRD," the Department of
Human Resources Development. That was the Director who retired in December,
Mr. James Nishimoto. DHRD determines what the minimum qualifications (MQs)
are for that particular position. It is not Legislature that develops the minimal
qualifications of what this Auditor will be. When I see all of these line items in the
budget in trying to address HART, the reimbursement, and so on, I am telling myself,
"I do not think we can get it done in a year and a half." In closing, this is the process
that we go through in State government as far as filling positions. I kept my mouth
COUNCIL MEETING 15 MARCH 14, 2018
quiet because I was very disappointed in what the House Committee on Finance did,
and what they decided to do this year was to abolish two percent (2%) across the
board, vacant positions.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present.)
Representative Say: Vacant positions that could not be filled.
When these vacant positions are abolished, you start the chain of command all over
again; come before you, budget, and so on. I need these positions, you approve the
positions, but you have a log jam at the Department of Human Services, and that is
where I am very much concerned about what may transpire. But ask the tough
questions this coming...when is the hearing...
Representative Tokioka: Tomorrow.
Representative Say: For Senate Bill 648.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes.
Representative Say: And ask the tough questions: why is O`ahu
left out, why do you want me to go through this budget process, why this, why that,
and why can you not go back to the old days as a lump sum appropriation to the
four (4) Counties? You and your Administration are the experts. I do not know how
to run the County of Kauai. I may a little as far as State government, but not for the
City and Counties. In closing, I just wanted to say thank you very much and it is
great to be on other side of the table testifying and not asking the hard questions.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you.
Representative Tokioka: Council Chair Rapozo, just two (2) other great
points. The big problem with H.B. No. 1665 is that every year, you folks are going to
have to go have and beg. As Councilmember Kawakami knows, it is hard for us when
we are sitting on this side, our friends come, and, you just see them begging. In
particular, Legislators may want to make them hang out there a little longer. It is
the really tough for all of the Counties to go through that. Having said that, if you
have any questions, we will be more than happy to answer them. If not, then we
appreciate this opportunity.
Council Chair Rapozo: There is one (1) more component about the tax
credit for that is in that Bill as well. I will say that when I did speak to Representative
Nakamura, she acknowledged the fact this was a bad Bill and that it was going to
die, but there was no assurance. We do not know. I can tell you. I have been up at
the Capitol, and Representative Tokioka, you know. I have been there many, many,
many times lobbying for TAT. The last visit with the House Committee on Finance
was not pleasant for me. It was horrible the way they treated their guest. For that
reason, I am not going back tomorrow. They know how I feel and that is why we rely
on you folks. I appreciate you voting for the people, not only this one, but the last one
where you actually lost your position. That tells me anyway that at least you are
COUNCIL MEETING 16 MARCH 14, 2018
voting for the right reason, and much respect and aloha for that because I know it is
not easy. Thank you.
Representative Tokioka: Like I said, I came from here, I have to look at
myself in the mirror, and I see you folks often. In my opinion, we just have to do what
is right. Those two (2) things; to tax the neighbor islands through the TAT for the
Rail was, in my opinion, not a good way to do that. There are many things, that as
you folks know, that happened up there that we do not agree with. As the former
Speaker and one of the reasons why I asked him to come is, that is not par for the
course when he was there. We all make decisions that people do not like.
Council Chair Rapozo: Unlike when you were on the Council,
everybody was happy with every decision.
Representative Tokioka: No. I said, we all. We hope that this Bill will
die and the other one be amended to address some of the issues. But I think if they
had just raised the cap as Speaker Emeritus introduced the bill, then we would not
be in this place. We would not be putting our fellow colleagues in harm's way from
all of the neighbor islands, and even on O`ahu as well. We would not be putting them
in that place.
Council Chair Rapozo: What I struggle with and maybe I do not
understand the games up at the Capitol, but...
Representative Tokioka: Us, too.
Council Chair Rapozo: They took the time to draft this bill, H.B.
No. 1665. They took the time. Somebody had to sit down and write this up. When I
read it, it is like, "Wow, let us really put to the Counties." Why would they not have
just amended language that is coming across now to say that we want to give Kauai,
Maui, and Big Island extra money and do not give to Honolulu? Why would they not
draft language? Why would they not pass that language rather than put this? This
is garbage. We know. This is just pure garbage, in fact, even Representative
Nakamura said it. Put this, pass it, get the Counties all up in arm, and then come
back later and say, "Well, listen, we have another one now." I do not understand.
Maybe that is something that we have to discuss at a different point, but that just
frustrates me. No one knew. I called Big Island. I called Maui. They did not know
that this had happened. It is just frustrating.
Representative Tokioka: Maybe it was a knee-jerk reaction to some of
the negative press that this Bill and the Senate bill got to the neighbor island
Counties. I do not know what the intent was, Council Chair Rapozo, so I cannot
answer that question. But I can only guess that may have had something to do with
it.
Representative Say: Council Chair Rapozo, those are the kinds of
questions that you need to be there to ask the House Committee on Finance. You
have to. It is going to be on the record. So, your appearance would be very important
that you ask these questions: why was O`ahu left out and are you punishing O`ahu at
COUNCIL MEETING 17 MARCH 14, 2018
the expense of the other three (3) Counties? I do not believe so, but you never know
sometimes what measures come out that have unintended consequences. For me,
House Bill 1665, House Draft 1 was a great bill, a good bill, facetiously. Do you know
why? It helps my opponent campaign against me. Do you see that analogy?
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes.
Representative Say: This is a bad bill, H.B. No. 1665, H.D. 1, but
it is also a good bill for any person who has a race this year to be used against him or
her.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes.
Representative Say: Facetiously stating.
Council Chair Rapozo: That works for...
Representative Say: May I be permitted to submit this to your
staff, that you could share with them?
Council Chair Rapozo: Sure.
Representative Say: This is the digest of the Transient
Accommodations Tax.
Council Chair Rapozo: Sure. Scott will get it. Are there any
questions? Councilmember Kawakami.
Councilmember Kawakami: Yes. Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo.
Representative Say and Representative Tokioka, thank you for being here and thank
you for referencing that conference call when the cap on the TAT was put on. I
remember it fondly. It was when Peter Nakamura was our County Clerk and Council
Chair Asing and myself as the President of the Hawai`i State Association of
Counties (HSAC) that sat down and we were explained the tough decisions you are
making as far as making the teachers very angry and making government workers
very upset by going fifty/fifty (50/50), you meet me halfway, and I meet you halfway
while the Counties stayed at sixty/forty (60/40). I remember the discussion that it
was indeed, a temporary means to an end as far as getting us through the Great
Recession and getting us through these tough economic times. I am very fond of the
conversation. Earlier, we had the discussion that at the end of the day, we have to
strive to be peacemakers. Pastor Sui said, "Let us strive to be peacemakers rather
than peacekeepers." I guess the question is, how do we get to a point where we can
put feelings aside and as leaders, get back to ground-zero of what our job is, which is
to make things better? I bring this up because the Kaua`i delegation is unique. I was
up there, and it is unique because there is no other State delegation that makes
appropriations to County projects. None other. We were able to find excess where
we have bus stop on State highways, so we will appropriate money to bus stops. We
have County stadiums that are used by high school football teams, so we will try and
retrofit lights and appropriate money for lights. Representative Tokioka was the one
COUNCIL MEETING 18 MARCH 14, 2018
that did that. We had water line projects in Kilauea, County waterline projects that
fed a Kilauea school, so we collaborated. Then, we talk about reimbursements and
keeping score. When we have the wildfires up in KOke`e, private vendors, little mom
and pop restaurants that were providing lunches, could not even get reimbursed.
How are we going to get reimbursed? Then, we have County lifeguards that are
saving people on State beach parks. We do not say, "Hey, we will wait for our
reimbursement before we decide to save people." We are using County firefighters
with County helicopters rescuing people on Department of Land and Natural
Resources (DNLR) trails. Is that not supporting the visitor industry? We have the
County Fire Department and County Police Department keeping our communities
safe. Is that not serving the visitor industry well? What more do we have to do to
prove that the Counties are providing much needed services to boost our visitor
industry experience? We are not here it keep score, but we are not getting reimbursed
for putting our police officers into our high schools to keep our schools safe. We do
not need to put guns into teacher's hands. We have to put cops into our schools and
we are willing to do that, and we are not getting reimbursed. We are not getting
reimbursed for the stadiums. Where and at what point do we have to get to before
we can put these things aside and say, "Let us go make some peace?" How do we put
all of those feelings aside say, "Hey, let us go figure out some problems instead of
creating them"? From the State side, what is your insight?
Representative Tokioka: I think as Councilmember Kawakami and all
of you, it is a never-ending mission to try to collaborate and work together. A lot of
times, politics and personal feelings get in the way. But at the end of the day, the
main mission is to make sure that our constituents are all served in the best way that
we can. Sometimes, it means swallowing your pride and working with people that
have a differing opinion. We try to do that. I think I had a good teacher with Speaker
Emeritus Say. In my opinion, I think it helps a lot when you come from a County
Council before you get to the State Legislature because it gets you rooted. I do not
know if it helps everyone, but I do not know that there is one (1) answer that question,
Councilmember Kawakami. But I know every day when I wake up and I go to work,
I try to figure out "how can" and not "how no can" whether it has to do with people
that are against something that we are working towards, or people, or anything that
I do every day. I do not have a specific answer other than we cannot stop trying to
collaborate.
Councilmember Kawakami: I think the bottom-line is when I talked to the
introducer and the Chair that kind of pushed this through, Chair Onishi, but
basically, I think what he is seek seeking is some kind of information as to what the
Counties are spending their money on. He wants to go back the nexus that the TAT's
intention was to replace the pork barrel, the grant-in-aid, to the Counties. It was also
to support the visitor industry. I know this because at the time, the Senate
Committee on Ways & Means Chair called us all to the carpet and asked every single
one of the Counties, "How much of your TAT money are you reinvesting into the
visitor industry?" At that time, only the County of Maui was reinvesting into their
visitor's bureau or their visitor industry. I hear what he is saying, but this is not the
way to go and do it.
Representative Tokioka: No.
COUNCIL MEETING 19 MARCH 14, 2018
Councilmember Kawakami: The way to do is to work through HSAC.
Every single year, we go up, we sit down, and we present our package. We always
say, "Hey, if there is anything that you would like to know from the Counties, it is so
easy to go back home on the weekends and reach out to your County Councilmember
in your District." Do you know what I mean? On Kauai, it is at-large, but talk to us.
What are we spending our money on? We can open up the budget. It is public
information. Do you want to see our lifeguards and what it costs? Do you want to
see how much it costs to go rescue people? These are the kinds of things that should
be happening during the recess. These are the things that should be happening post
(inaudible). But it is not. How do we get to that point where we can get back to the
fundamental art of just communication, which is ninety-nine percent (99%) of our
problems, not being able to communicate?
Representative Say: May I respond?
Council Chair Rapozo: Please.
Representative Say: Very simple is this, I personally feel that each
of the four (4) County Councils and the Administrations during the interim period of
time where we are in recess, that you should invite the members of the Senate
Committee on Ways & Means and the House Committee on Finance to hear a
thorough budget presentation. A great deal of the members of the House and Senate
does not really understand all of the budgets at the State of Hawaii. There are
seventeen (17) different Departments, three (3) or four (4) other agencies attached, et
cetera. It is very difficult for freshmen or sophomores to learn about the budget. I
shared with a lot of freshmen and sophomores that I would do something like this,
for Councilmember Kagawa, you are in the House. Maybe you take up the
Department of Transportation, learn about the three (3) Divisions in one (1) year if
you can learn it in one (1) year. Who are the Directors, the Deputy Directors? It is
Darryl Young of the Harbors Division, Ross Higashi from the Airports Division, and
Ed Sniffen from the Highways Division. Face-to-face. If you have any problems, you
can contact them. That is what I have shared with a lot of freshmen when they first
got involved. I have tried to have them sit on the House Committee on Finance, which
gives you the broad perspective. But why I say during the interim, Councilmember
Kawakami, is because that is the only time we have available. From December to
May, we are just already booked. We are just booked in State House and State
Senate. Yes, your Kauai delegation comes back home. Maybe you should have a
potluck at Black—where is that place where my uncle used to go?
Councilmember Yukimura: Black Pot Beach Park.
Representative Say: Black Pot Beach Park. Get together and
talk-story. But all I am saying, Councilmember Kawakami, is that would be the best
time. You do not want to do it right before the session where you folks all come before
the House Committee on Finance and Senate Committee on Ways & Means. If you
have any issues, talk to your Representatives, Representative Tokioka, for example.
"This is the Department we want to meet with," not with education, but more on the
services that you need to provide this. This year, we had five (5) bills in regards to
COUNCIL MEETING 20 MARCH 14, 2018
lifeguard immunity, and none was heard. Have you asked your delegation what their
position is on it? All of this...
Representative Tokioka: I support it, just so you know, and you know
that.
Council Chair Rapozo: I guess when you talk about our constituents
or your constituents, we all serve the same people. But it is amazing how at the State
level, the perspective by many members up there is different. How can you not
support lifeguard immunity? That does not help your island or your County. As far
as the expenses related to the tourism industry or visitor industry, I keep talking
about that task force report that was done a few years ago. That was totally
disregarded by the State, totally disregard, because it did not come out with the
numbers I would assume that they had wanted to see. They did a pretty thorough
analysis by County, of what the percentage of our budget goes to the visitor industry.
They did a really will good job. It took them over two (2) years to put that together.
Representative Tokioka: Judge Acoba did a great job.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes. There is no dispute that the moneys that
we get, especially the capped moneys, whether you can delineate each dollar. At some
point, it comes into our General Fund and we are paying police, fire, or parks. No one
can dispute the fact that our portion, fourteen million dollars ($14,000,000), is not
being used for tourism. That is way less than what we pay anyway. So whether it is
a substitution of existing General Funds, my point is that to add a reimbursement
request feature is punitive. It is punitive. It is saying we know by far, if you handle
police and fire, why would you take out police and fire?
Representative Tokioka: One of the biggest part of your expenses that
accommodates tourism.
Council Chair Rapozo: Hello? For the tourists? We are not going to
get paid back by TAT money to provide that public safety to our tourists?
Representative Tokioka: Then you do not get to the number because
that is a big chunk of it.
Council Chair Rapozo: You are probably right. I would have to back
to the report and extract out police and fire. But you might be right, that might
reduce our...
Representative Tokioka: Our ability to charge.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes.
Representative Tokioka: It will.
Council Chair Rapozo: That is a good point. Are there any other
questions? Councilmember Yukimura.
COUNCIL MEETING 21 MARCH 14, 2018
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. Representative Say and Representative
Tokioka, thank you for being here. It is this kind of dialogue that really helps our
understanding and hopefully, ultimately our collective problem-solving. I think we
all agree that this reimbursement is ridiculous in House Bill No. 1665. I think it is
punitive not just to the County, but it is punitive to the State because they do not
have the capacity to do it.
Representative Tokioka: Absolutely.
Councilmember Yukimura: It does not make sense and does not help us
move forward. To not allow us to get reimbursed for police and fire is really
outrageous because so many of our services in those arenas are disproportionately
related to visitors. Why could we not just use the generalized ratio of the visitors to
the de facto population, our daily visitors to the de facto population, which means
that twenty to twenty-five percent (20-25%) of our population any day is visitors?
Why can we not use that rule of thumb?
Representative Say: That formula could be used, but there are
members who disagree with that formula. The original formula that you saw in
original TAT was developed by Speaker Emeritus Souki and Chair Mamoru
Yamasaki in that period of time. O`ahu got the short-end of the percentage because
we have over fifty-five percent (55%) of the rooms. But because the other three (3)
Counties were much smaller, they decided to give the Counties more as far as the
TAT.
Councilmember Yukimura: It is true that our percentage is greater for the
neighbor islands. You gave us the breakdown of the three hundred million
dollars ($300,000,000) plus in Fiscal Year 2017 and did say now, it is five hundred
million dollars ($500,000,000)?
Representative Say: No, that was the increase of the Fiscal
Year 2017 from 2016.
Councilmember Yukimura: I see.
Representative Say: You see the differential.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. In this Bill that is being proposed on
Wednesday...
Representative Tokioka: No, tomorrow. Thursday.
Councilmember Yukimura: It is about thirty million
dollars ($30,000,000)...
Representative Tokioka: Thursday. It is proposed on Thursday,
tomorrow.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thursday? I am sorry.
COUNCIL MEETING 22 MARCH 14, 2018
Representative Tokioka: The hearing is tomorrow.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. In the Bill that is being proposed, are
they proposing thirty million dollars ($30,000,000) more to go to the neighbor islands.
Representative Tokioka: Thirty-six million dollars ($36,000,000).
Councilmember Yukimura: Thirty-six million dollars ($36,000,000).
Where is that money going to come from?
Representative Tokioka: Your guess is as good as ours.
Representative Say: We do not know. It could come out of your
base of the one hundred three million dollars ($103,000,000) or it could come out of
the General Fund. That is why somebody has to be there to ask the questions to the
House Committee on Finance Chair, Vice Chair, and Members.
Representative Tokioka: The Council on Revenues just gave an
additional updated forecast that would increase the budget by fifty million
dollars ($50,000,000). But we still have other costs that we still have to pay down
whether it is Other Post-Employment Benefits (OPEB) or Employees' Retirement
System (ERS). There are numerous amounts of things that we still have to pay, so
we are not sure.
Councilmember Yukimura: But would the thirty-six million
dollars ($36,000,000) come from the TAT?
Representative Say: General Fund.
Councilmember Yukimura: It would come from the General Fund?
Representative Tokioka: It could.
Representative Say: It could come from the General Fund or the
one hundred three million dollar ($103,000,000) ceiling that you folks have right now.
Councilmember Yukimura: Oh, I see. So, it is not designated where the
additional moneys that is supposed to come to the Counties and where that is going
to come from in Senate Bill No. 648, Senate Draft 1?
Representative Tokioka: No. It also does the same thing that you have
a concern with, it does not let you reimburse for police and fire.
Councilmember Yukimura: Oh, it does not?
Representative Tokioka: Yes, if you read it good.
Councilmember Yukimura: Senate Bill No. 648, Senate Draft 1?
COUNCIL MEETING 23 MARCH 14, 2018
Representative Tokioka: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, then we cannot support it.
Representative Tokioka: But then you are stuck because are you going
to say "no" to nine million dollars ($9,000,000)?
Representative Say: You are going to lose that amount.
Representative Tokioka: But then for me, I would have concerns with
our friends from O`ahu, because they are not getting anything. I do not have the Bill
in front of me, Councilmember Yukimura, but Kaua`i is nine million
dollars ($9,000,000), Big Island is twelve million dollars ($12,000,000), and Maui is
close to fifteen million dollars ($15,000,000). In this Bill, Senate Bill No. 648, Senate
Draft 1, Honolulu gets nothing.
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, but they do get some of the moneys for
their transit, right?
Representative Tokioka: Yes, they do get that, but that is going to Rail.
It is not going to pay for anything else.
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, what concerns me is that they actually
prohibit us from using these moneys for police and fire.
Representative Tokioka: Well, it does not say you can reimburse for
police and fire, so that is prohibiting it.
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, it allows us to use it for anything.
Representative Tokioka: No. Read it good. It only allows you to
reimburse for three (3) specific things.
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, then that is...
Representative Tokioka: Councilmember Yukimura, it is the General
Plan, the Tourism Strategic Plan, and what was the third thing?
Council Chair Rapozo: There was more than three (3), but it was
again, law enforcement of Transient Vacation Rental violations and lifeguards. We
can staff the lifeguards. At least they did not touch that. We could, but even then,
when we go rescue somebody up in the mountain or in the ocean with our helicopter
and with our firefighters, it is not lifeguards going up there. It is the firemen. We
cannot get reimbursement. That is crazy. Hang on, Councilmember Kaneshiro, I
have Councilmember Kawakami.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: I was just going to say that they were talking
about Senate Bill No. 648, Senate Draft 1 and it does specify only the County General
Plan, the Development Plan, and the Tourism Strategic Plan.
COUNCIL MEETING 24 MARCH 14, 2018
Council Chair Rapozo: Are we talking about Senate Bill No. 648,
Senate Draft 1?
Representative Tokioka: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. I am sorry.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: There was only three (3).
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, that one is only three (3).
Representative Tokioka: Councilmember Yukimura brought up that
question.
Council Chair Rapozo: I am sorry. It is three (3). I thought it was
H.B. No. 1665, H.D. 1.
Representative Tokioka: No.
Councilmember Yukimura: We are looking to for a solution here and this
new Bill is being proposed as a solution, so we need to really understand what it is
proposing. I do prefer the block grant method where the Counties make the decision
about how to spend the money.
Representative Tokioka: Councilmember Yukimura, if I could just say
something. You may want to come up and express that concern. You have
relationships up there and you may might want to ask them.
Councilmember Yukimura: If we are preparing testimony, it should be
included in our testimony.
Representative Tokioka: It looks like a gift, but the strings that are
attached are going to restrict a lot of expenditures.
Councilmember Yukimura: And then it also has this twelve (12) year
sunset.
Representative Tokioka: Yes. As Speaker Emeritus said, it connected
that to what happened with S.B. 1 in Special Session, because that goes out to that
year. In my personal opinion, had we just extended the GET to O`ahu only, we would
not be in this predicament.
Councilmember Yukimura: So we get really dependent on these moneys...
Representative Tokioka: And you have to come every year.
Councilmember Yukimura: Otherwise, we cannot spend it on positions or
anything because in so many years, we will be...
COUNCIL MEETING 25 MARCH 14, 2018
Representative Say: Sunset.
Representative Tokioka: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kawakmi.
Representative Tokioka: The removal of the cap would have probably
been the fairest way to deal with all of this.
Representative Say: Everybody.
Representative Tokioka: I think the Counties have known that they
need to do a better job explaining their expenses to the Legislature as far as police,
fire, and parks. I know that you folks have been working towards that, but as Council
Chair Rapozo said, it is going to be almost impossible to say, "This much for this
month and this week or the last ninety (90) days."
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, and tied into that is how we act on raises.
Representative Tokioka: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Make sure we focus it right back to this Bill
because I know the discussion is great as the Senate Bill is scary, but I kind of want
to get it back to this specific Bill.
Representative Tokioka: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kawakami.
Councilmember Kawakami: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. Well,
thank goodness that this proposed Senate Bill if it ever passes, which is highly
doubtful, despite the amount of Honolulu people that are going to be basically
shackling themselves, but at least it allows us to spend money on our Tourism
Strategic Plan because I think we are light years ahead of the other Counties as far
as getting a Tourism Strategic Plan. If you look at our Tourism Strategic Plan, it
includes infrastructure improvements and parks and recreation improvements, so it
is pretty broad. Here is the thing, one, it is going to be almost impossible to comply
with the proposed measure as far as asking for reimbursements. On County's side, I
just do not see how we are going do it from the operational standpoint, ninety (90)
days. From the State's side, it has not been thought out. I do not even know if the
Administration has weighed-in in as far as implementing this type of measure. I
have a few questions. Is the County of Kaua`i being subsidized by Oahu taxpayers
as far as operations, schools, and infrastructure improvements? Are we being
subsidized by O`ahu?
Representative Tokioka: Yes.
COUNCIL MEETING 26 MARCH 14, 2018
Councilmember Kawakami: So, we are going to position ourselves to now
further shatter more peace with our O`ahu Representatives and Senators who have
the same housing issues that we do, and it comes up all the time. They have the same
health care issues that Kaua`i County does, they have the same traffic issues that
Kauai County does...
Representative Tokioka: Worse.
Councilmember Kawakami: We have two (2) Hawaii Health Systems
Corporation (HHSC) hospitals that are in large part subsidized by the taxpayers of
O`ahu, and then we are going to position ourselves to take a stance to support a
measure that is going to hurt them and help us when all the time they have been
helping us. I think that is what the thing that people of Kaua`i need to realize, too.
The reality is, like any other large city, they subsidize their smaller communities and
we are being subsidized in large part by O`ahu. So that is the answer to the first
question, are we being subsidized by O`ahu, the answer is yes.
Representative Tokioka: Yes.
Councilmember Kawakami: The other thing is in the problem-solving
process, sometimes we go backwards. We start trying to find solutions before we
actually identify the problem. This Bill is often times solutions to a problem, but
what exactly is the problem? I have not identified the problem.
Representative Tokioka: I think what we identified is not removing the
cap on the one hundred three million dollars ($103,000,000) if you are just talking
about just TAT part.
Councilmember Kawakami: Yes.
Representative Tokioka: Each County and the State has problems
obviously, with financial shortfalls. But in my opinion, the root of your question is
not removing the cap on the TAT. That was done at time at the time where it was
the worst recession, the Great Recession, and now we are not this that Great
Recession, but we did not remove the cap. Had we removed the cap, I would not have
seen Mel Rapozo up there or you, Councilmember Kawakami, or any you up there
because you have been all up there asking for the removal of the cap, every single one
of you has been. I think that is the one of the roots problem, Councilmember
Kawakami, is not removing the cap on the TAT.
Councilmember Kawakami: Tomorrow is a rough day for us to be going up.
I will tell you why, because we have our Mayor's State of the County address
tomorrow where he is going to lay out his final leg of his journey and what the game
plan is going to be for this upcoming budget. So, we are going to have to ask you folks
to go and do your job. We do have a member from the Kaua`i delegation sitting on
the House Committee of Finance. We can send over the questions to ask and in
particular, what the strategy is as far as basically putting the neighbor islands
against the City and County of Honolulu.
COUNCIL MEETING 27 MARCH 14, 2018
Representative Tokioka: That is a great question.
Councilmember Kawakami: I will be honest with you, I have been through
the process. I know exactly how it goes. If you are on the Committee, your job is to
go ask some of these questions. We can send it over and hopefully, we can get some
answers.
Representative Tokioka: Council Chair Rapozo, we need to leave in
about ten (10) minutes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay.
Representative Tokioka: Sorry.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. I know this is going to long. I just
had one (1) clarifying questions regarding being subsidized by O`ahu. Removing all
the State responsibilities; the schools, the hospitals, and the highways, what subsidy
are we talking about?
Representative Tokioka: That is most of it.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes.
Representative Tokioka: The Department of Health.
Council Chair Rapozo: But that is the State's kuleana.
Representative Tokioka: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: That is not County, so I do not see that as a
subsidy. I see it as the State's obligation. When I think subsidy, I am thinking, where
does the State subsidize the County's operation?" I am not trying to put on the spot,
I just do not know.
Representative Tokioka: I assumed part of the question was the TAT
part.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes.
Representative Tokioka: The TAT part is a big subsidy from Honolulu.
Council Chair Rapozo: It is.
Councilmember Kawakami: Let me clarify because this was the point I
was making, who generates the lion's share of General Excise Tax revenues?
Representative Tokioka: Oahu and...
COUNCIL MEETING 28 MARCH 14, 2018
Councilmember Kawakami: General Excise Tax revenue goes to State
operations. Are we receiving more than our fair share of General Excise Tax based
on what we generate?
Representative Tokioka: Yes.
Councilmember Kawakami: Based to the services that we are providing,
State services?
Representative Tokioka: Yes.
Councilmember Kawakami: That is the question.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay, on the GET.
Representative Tokioka: Also, in the fuel tax. The amount that we
collect for fuel tax, I did not bring that number with me. But the amount that we
collect for the fuel tax to do our roads, we are way short of the amount of money that
we spend on our highways here.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay.
Representative Tokioka: That bridge going up by the mill, that bridge
alone was fifty million dollars ($50,000,000).
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes.
Representative Tokioka: How many years is it going to take to pay that
with the fuel tax at sixteen percent (16%) fuel tax? It is a long time.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay.
Representative Tokioka: Just the bridge.
Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else? I want to give everybody a
chance before they have to leave. Does anybody have any questions of the two (2)
gentlemen before 10:00 a.m.? Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: If we remove the cap, does that mean that
somebody is going to get less who gets tourist tax money, TAT money.
Representative Tokioka: No.
Representative Say: It is just going to be the State General Fund.
Representative Tokioka: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Oh, I see. The General Fund will be lessened.
COUNCIL MEETING 29 MARCH 14, 2018
Representative Tokioka: Yes.
Representative Say: Yes. But you can also make the request,
Council Chair Rapozo, why do we not do it incrementally? A ten million
dollar ($10,000,000)increase over next five (5)years ten million dollars ($10,000,000),
ten million dollars ($10,000,000), and ten million dollars ($10,000,000)? So that is
fifty million dollars ($50,000,000).
Council Chair Rapozo: Representative Say, the last time I went in
and asked, do you know what they did?
Representative Say: No.
Council Chair Rapozo: They cut ten million dollars ($10,000,000)
more off. It went to ninety-three million dollars ($93,000,000). Do you remember
that? It was last year. The bill they passed was ninety-three million
dollars ($93,000,000). They actually cut another ten million dollars ($10,000,000) off.
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, we kind of have to be careful about how
we ask.
Council Chair Rapozo: Well, maybe I asked wrong.
Representative Say: Just come as a unified group, that would be
the best.
Council Chair Rapozo: I have to say that two (2) session ago between
the Hawai`i County of Mayors (HCOM) and HSAC, was probably the first time they
unified and came as a united front together. It was the first time in all of the years
that I have been on the Council, that we coordinated that effort. At the end of the
day, we lost. I think we upset them to the point that these kinds of things happen.
So it is almost like we are kind of caught between a rock and hard place because if
you want to go up and stand united, then we get this kind of thing, and that is just
deflating. I am not sure if there is a better way. Councilmember Yukimura said
maybe we need to ask in a different way or nicer. I do not know how else. The Mayors
and Councils showed up and said, "Hey, we need the money. We need your help." We
did not go there and threaten them. But then this is what happens. We get this kind
of vindictive...
Representative Tokioka: I do not think in the twelve (12) years that I
have been there, I do not think that the Counties have ever gone disrespectfully.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, I agree. Councilmember Kawakami was
the Chair, you were the Chair; Councilmember Kaneshiro and all of you, and even
Maui, Hawai`i Island, and the City and County of Honolulu. I do not think that is
the issue, Council Chair Rapozo.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura.
COUNCIL MEETING 30 MARCH 14, 2018
Councilmember Yukimura: Actually, I have gotten feedback about how we
have criticized the Senate when they tried to raise the fuel and vehicle weight tax to
pay for the State roads. There was a lot of really irritated and angry Legislators
because of what we did there. Anyway, thank you very much for coming. It has been
really helpful and enlightening.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions?
Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: I know they have to leave. I just want to
thank these gentlemen for coming today. I think their presence here shows us how
important and critical this issue is at this juncture. I hope we can all take interest.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Councilmember Brun.
Councilmember Brun: Again, thank you for coming out. I want to
thank Representative Tokioka for coming back. I know you have to be back on O`ahu.
It is good to see you folks here. Thank you for briefing us on this today. Thank you
very much.
Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else? If not, do you want to say
something?
Representative Say: No.
Council Chair Rapozo: You gave me thumb's up. I am not done yet.
Representative Say, thank you for being here. We are honored to have you here
today. I appreciate you taking the time. I know you folks have meetings back on
O`ahu. I do want to repeat that we invited all three (3) Representatives to be here
today because I wanted to hear. I want to hear the logic behind this and I still do not
have it. Thank you for coming, Representative Tokioka and Representative Say.
Thank you for voting this down because this is very detrimental.
Representative Say: My only comment to all of you is, you are
going to figure out all of this on sine die.
Council Chair Rapozo: I am sorry?
Representative Say: You are going to figure out all of this on sine
die.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes.
Representative Say: The last day of session if you folks are aided
or supported.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much.
Representative Tokioka: Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING 31 MARCH 14, 2018
Council Chair Rapozo: Safe travels.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify on this matter?
ALICE PARKER: Alice Parker, for the record. Yes. Absolutely,
you are right, Council Chair Rapozo, with your position on this. I think that the
money holder does not want to share any of it and we are all islands in the Pacific
together. It should be shared appropriately as needed. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else? Thank you very much. Anyone
else? Mr. Hart.
BRUCE HART: For the record, Bruce Hart. I am really
appreciative having been here today. It was really informative. I appreciate the
Representatives being here. I do not know if this is obvious, but we do not have
enough money.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present.)
Mr. Hart: It is a problem that occurs on a personal level
and I, as a member of the public, has seen that it occurs here on the County level and
it occurs on the State level.
(Councilmember Brun was noted as not present.)
Mr. Hart: It is a difficult position to be in when you do
not have enough money to even provide the services that the County is supposed to
function to do to serve the people, to serve the County, provide the infrastructure,
police, fire, all of it. I do not have any more solutions than any of you do, but I want
to tell you that you are in my prayers. This subject is in my prayers. I am just going
to keep praying because I believe the Lord cares about us. I appreciated the prayer
that the Pastor gave this morning. We are just going to have to try and work together
as I have encouraged you, in unity. We are going to have to come up with solutions.
Hang in there. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Anyone else wishing to testify?
Seeing none, I will call the meeting back to order.
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any further discussion?
Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: I want to thank you, Council Chair Rapozo,
for bringing this Resolution before us. As you can see, it is always important to stay
COUNCIL MEETING 32 MARCH 14, 2018
focused on the TAT and what is happening. I have been a big critic from the
beginning about the cap and how I believe we have been cheated out of our fair share
of the TAT. I understand that the State went through its hard times; however, the
County has gone through its hard times as well. I am not surprised by this item.
Myself and Aida were fortunate to have been briefed at the last HSAC meeting by
this by Senate President Kouchi about this. We were all there. All of the HSAC
leaders were there in his office and he spent about an hour going over some of the
issues. This was one of the major topics that he talked about. It is very confusing far
as what is actually going to come out in the end because the House can have a version,
but the Senate may not agree. Then, what version comes out in the end is like,
Councilmember Kawakami has taught me, it is very complicated up there at
Legislature. But stating our position is a good thing. It is clear. They know what we
want. I agree with Councilmember Yukimura's concern about police and fire. If you
take twenty-five percent (25%) out of the approximate seventy million
dollars ($70,000,000) that we pay annually for police and fire, then you are talking
about the full fourteen million dollars ($14,000,000) right there, and that is not being
overly generous. That is not giving false information. That is fact. To leave that
portion out and then have the Counties come up with new justifications to release
TAT moneys would seem a little unfair, very unfair to the Counties. Hopefully going
forward, we can also relay that message that we need to have police and fire
reimbursed as part of the TAT. It is definitely tangible, it is a fact, and having our
tourists safe and having pleasant times at our facilities is critical to have continued
increases in tourism and a robust tourist economy. With that, I just want it thank
you, again Council Chair Rapozo. I will supporting this Resolution.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kawakami.
Councilmember Kawakami: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. I am going
to support this Resolution, too. I just want to be completely honest about the process.
At the State Legislature, there are fifty-one (51) different perspectives and priorities.
In the Senate, there are twenty-five (25) different priorities and perspectives. I can
tell you that often times our Representatives and Senators will vote "yes" on
measures that they do not fully subscribe to because in all honesty, we are all fighting
for our Districts. We are all fighting for more with a very limited amount resources
to go around. I can be honest and say that the minute that you start opposing
everything just based on your own personal perspective and you are not willing to
work with your colleagues, is the day that you start seeing your Capital Improvement
Projects budget for your District start to evaporate for people that are willing to
collaborate and listen. This is the bottom-line on the process. When they say it is
like sausage making because everybody wants to eat it, but nobody wants to see it
being made, this is the sausage-making of the legislative process. Often times, people
and constituents have asked me, "Why would I vote `yes' on a bill on something that
I did not truly believe in?" This is the reason why. These are the reasons why and
we often tell people, "Judge the work that we do at the Legislature on day sixty (60)
of the Legislative Session, we will adjourn sine die, the last day, because most of these
measures are going to die." We cannot guarantee anything, but I can tell you in
speaking to the Senate, they are not looking at these types of games with the
Counties. They are trying to figure out how to balance a budget and they are trying
to find more appropriations for the Districts that they represent. So, the likelihood
COUNCIL MEETING 33 MARCH 14, 2018
of this going to the Senate in my opinion, is nil to none. The other thing that I would
like to leave us with is this statement that was made in 1987 on the first day of the
Legislative Session. "Last session we made history when we passed the Hotel Room
Tax. This year, we must follow with provisions which permit some of these revenues
to be appropriated to support the visitor industry and our four (4) Counties." That
was said by Speaker of the House Richard Kawakami at that time. The base
foundation and the history of the TAT is very much ingrained in all of us as far as the
history on why it was actually created. I think moving forward, the public deserves
to know some of the tough situations that people are put through in the Legislature.
That is the harsh reality of it. I think that moving forward if Senate Bill—I forgot the
number that is going to be heard by the House Committee on Finance, the only way
that I am going to be able to support it is to ask the House Committee on Finance to
add in some for the City and County of Honolulu. They deserve to get the
appropriations and stop telling us what to do this TAT, because we are putting it to
good use. This is not government efficiency, to ask us to do more additional reporting
and to do more additional bureaucratic red-tape in our own operations. That just
makes no sense as far as trying to me a lean, mean, and very effective machine to put
us through this additional red-tape when we should be removing the red-tape so we
can get this money to good services to support our visitor industry. That being said,
Council Chair Rapozo, I am in full support of the Resolution and I hope that the House
Committee on Finance can craft some legislation tomorrow to make it more feasible.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. I want to
thank you for asking the Representatives to be here. It was enlightening for me in
learning how business is done. It is a little peculiar the way business is done. I have
to say that I share the same sentiments of the question that was asked by
Councilmember Kawakami about what will it take to get to a place of reasonableness
and good decision-making that is going to benefit all of us, particularly here at the
County with what we have experienced. Also, my other request regarding
S.B. No. 648, S.D. 1 is that these questions about where this increase will come from,
where the City and County of Honolulu is left in this, the reimbursement process,
which I think is flawed, sunset of course, and it is reflects the budget process. The
specifications that are listed are a little bit unclear. To gain clarity around it to see
how we can as a County support it understanding that the process goes back and
forth in where we sit in it. I sometimes wonder what our contribution is in this
discussion, how it affects the outcomes, and how we can contribute to getting back on
to the table to have some productivity. Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Anyone else? Councilmember
Kaneshiro.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: I want to thank you, Council Chair Rapozo,
for bringing this up. I will be voting in support of this Resolution to oppose
H.B. No. 1665, H.D. 1. I think it is fair for to us state our opposite to a bill that is
going through. As I looked through the Bill, yes, I had a ton of questions. I do not
like the fact that we will need to get reimbursed for our expenses. They specify what
type of expenses we can get reimbursed for. It did not include police. It did not
COUNCIL MEETING 34 MARCH 14, 2018
include fire services, which I wrote down our rescues in the water, air, and crime on
visitors. It did not include park and recreational facilities, which we get a huge use
from the visitor industry. In the past, it also did not include road improvements or
traffic mitigation measures from the increased number of cars. For me, it just looked
bad and then to get reimbursed. I had the same questions that Representative Say
came up and answered. How do we get reimbursed? What timeframe will we get
reimbursed? Who will determine if the expense we send in is reimbursable or not? I
think that just bogs down or entire system. We heard it here, that they promised to
reimburse the money and it has taken over six (6), seven (7), or eight (8) months with
possibly no end in sight. For me, that is scary to have. If it was my decision, I would
rather stay with the one hundred three million dollars ($103,000,000) capped and not
have this at all. If something better comes up in future, yes, I am open to look at it.
But I think it is fair for to us say, "This is a bill going through," and we state our
opposition to it. If someone supports, they support it. But I think it is fair for us to
say where we stand on it. I am looking forward to a better bill. Again, there were
also things that I do not understand. Things were added in regarding primary
residential property owner tax credit into a TAT bill. I was completely confused by
that. I did not understand it. I do not know why it was in the Bill. For me, I agree.
I am in opposition of this Bill. I hope we can at least keep the TAT money we have.
(Councilmember Brun was noted as present.)
Councilmember Kaneshiro: If the House and Senate are working on a
better bill for TAT, that we get a better bill. But again, this whole reimbursable
system scares me. We could be sending in reimbursable bills and they say, "No, those
are not reimbursable," and then, we are just stuck. Also, it did not specify the cap on
our reimbursables. They could be higher or lower than what we are getting. Who
knows? Thank you for bringing it up. I think it is fair for to us state where we are
on this particular Resolution, and I think from the sounds of it, everybody is in
opposition to this Bill. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: I, too, agree with the Resolution opposing
House Bill 1665, House Draft 1. Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo, for putting it on
the agenda. I think the Bill is very ill-conceived. We do not need more red-tape. It
is micromanaging at its worst and the present reimbursement system is probably bad
because of previous bills that required this kind of reimbursement and
micromanagement. It just does not work at all. Then, of course, to exclude police,
fire, and park services from being reimbursed is ridiculous because these are the
primary County services that are required to support our visitor industry, so it does
not work at all. I think we have to be really careful about the other bills that are
forthcoming because they do not appear to be well-written either. Like
Councilmember Kaneshiro, I would prefer that we have the status quo to a really bad
bill. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Brun.
COUNCIL MEETING 35 MARCH 14, 2018
Councilmember Brun: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. I will also
be supporting this. Looking at it, my main concern was taking out police and fire. As
far as I know, we are paying for a helicopter from out Fire Department that does most
of the rescues for tourists anyway, and then we cannot get that reimbursed. Yes, it
is an issue. I want to thank Representative Tokioka and Representative Say for
coming down and giving us more knowledge on this. It was very helpful for us. I will
be in full support of this. Thank you very much, Council Chair Rapozo.
Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else? Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: I would like to end that it would be scary if
some complicated bills to get our capped amount were passed, because it is moneys
that we receive and count on every year. We go through our budget proceedings
making an assumption that we get that capped amount. It would throw us into a
thirteen million dollar ($13,000,000) or fourteen million dollar ($14,000,000) hole at
the drop of a dime. It is just very spooky. I hope that we can work something out
that again, reimburses us for the services that are definitely tangible to tourists.
Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else? Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: I just want to end that my hope is that we can
all work together. We are all one (1) State. I do not really like to get into a tit-for-tat
on. "Hey, we do this, then we will take away that" or "You do this, and we will do
that." I think it benefits everyone when we can all work together. Having a lump
sum amount where State is not dictating where the money goes, it will, make our life
easier and makes the State's life easier. If he told the State, "Okay, TAT money,
whatever goes into the General Fund, you tell us where it goes to visitor spending."
It would be a nightmare for them just as it would be a nightmare for us. I think our
jobs are to work together to make our lives easier and ultimately, for the better of the
County and the State together, and not so much trying to put up red-flags to slow the
process down. Again, I think nobody says that government moves fast in the first
place, so I would like to see us not try to perpetuate that and kind of say, "Hey, what
will make us move faster? What will make it easier for us to get the services to our
residents?"
Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else? If not, when Julius Caesar was
trying to expand the Roman Empire used the tactic called "divide and conquer." It
was very successful for them. They pit people against people, friends against friends,
and that is what happening. I was at the Capital last session when HSAC and HCOM
came together as a united front. Then, they had Mayor Caldwell up there on the
stand, and they asked him point blank and made him choose between our proposal
and theirs. He was facing the people that were in control of him getting money for
Rail. So, for that moment, he had to step outside of what we had all agreed on because
he knew what the ramifications would be. You see, they put Honolulu against the
three (3) neighbor islands, and they are doing it again. I think we need to recognize
that and understand. I get it. I understand that sometimes, you have to work with
your constituents at the Legislature. They have a lot of people. They do not have
seven (7). They have a bunch. I understand that sometimes, people have to vote one
COUNCIL MEETING 36 MARCH 14, 2018
certain way to keep their requests alive. But when a bill like this comes forward, like
this one, H.B. No. 1665, H.D. 1, how can you support that? I do not know, because it
is detrimental. The TAT, the cap, and all of these things; one could argue either side,
and it could make sense. This one, there is no benefit, zero (0), to Kauai. Zero (0).
None. It is a problem. It creates an additional problem. So, to support this is difficult.
I do not know how that is done. That is why I wanted the two (2) Legislators that
supported it to be here. When I got the call from Representative Nakamura, she laid
it out to me that basically, "Council Chair Rapozo, hold off on your Resolution because
we are working on something and I promise it is something that is going to bring
more money to Kaua`i." "Well, what is it?" "I cannot tell you." "Why not?" "Because
you do not understand how things work up there." Well, I think I do. I just need to
know. Give me some assurance, but there was no assurance. All I am telling you is
that if you move forward with this, it is going to jeopardize Kaua`i getting the money.
We are opposing a Bill that is going across the Senate. If this Bill had not been voted
on yet, absolutely, I would stand back and let us go see if we get a better solution.
This had already passed. This was on its way to the Senate. I think it is our
obligation on this Council to stand up and say, "Wait a minute. We do not support
this. Please do not support this. It is going it hurt us." That is what the Resolution
was about. The House Bill coming across that will amend it is not a very good bill
either. The assurances that I was given by a Representative was not accurate. Had
we foregone on this discussion today and then the result would have been a bill that
is possibly worse than this one. So, we need it take action before the Senate gets this
bill. We need to let them know how we feel, and that is what this does. Now, I know
tomorrow is the State of the County address. I am assuming all of you are going to
go. Somebody has to be at the Capital. Unless there is someone here that wants to
go to the Capital tomorrow, I am going to go. I can watch his speech on recording. I
respect the Mayor and all of that, but we need to be there tomorrow. I think somebody
needs to let them know how we stand. I think, and I want to just make sure that I
understand how we feel, that we do not want the additional moneys to be tied to those
three (3) functions only, limited funds. I do want to go across with the message that,
I do not know how we do that because we do not have anything on agenda to establish
a position, but I kind of want to hear from everybody. Are we consistent that we do
not support S.B. No. 648 with those conditions? Councilmember Kawakami.
Councilmember Kawakami: Since you are asking, I would like to say that
yes, if you decide to go up, that you be mindful because I will be quite honest, the last
time you went up, it did...I mean, it is the way the Legislature works. Your demeanor
in front of them is very important on these types of, what I would say, is retaliation.
I would just ask that you represent us in a manner that is conducive to peacemaking,
that you mention that we do care about the City and County of Honolulu, and that
you are aware that they do subsidize our State operations being that they generate
the lion's share of the General Excise Tax revenues so we cannot, in good conscious,
cut them out of this deal. I would like to ask them to not put any requirements as far
as where we expend these funds to let us do our job, which we have been doing, and
then to take out any type of the reporting requirements just adds to the bureaucratic
red-tape. If you are going to go up, I would ask that you represent us and ask those
questions in that fashion. Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING 37 MARCH 14, 2018
Council Chair Rapozo: Is everyone okay with that language? I am
going to have is staff draft that up and I will read it. I will not speak freely. It is
what it is. I do not know if you saw it last time. I tried my best and they were not
very nice. I will read a statement, I will smile, and I will wear a nice shirt. Thank
you though. Those are the points exactly, that I think what I heard today from
everyone. They only gave me two (2) minutes last time, so if we can get it in some
short impacting statement. I would love to see the Visitors Bureau there, Sue
Kanoho. You will be fired? That is the other thing. Labor unions. I will be honest.
When I go up there and I get my 5hole beat, I do not see anybody else there. I do not
see the Unions, who we talk about them all the time. They are the beneficiaries of
the wage increases or the salary increases. I do not see the Visitors Bureaus. I do
not see the people that should be there. I understand, Sue, that is not your call, but
your boss should be there and his boss should be there. It is so important. It is very
difficult when you have one (1) or two (2) Councilmembers up there. Apparently, it
is not working. Anyway with that, I will go tomorrow and again, unless someone else
wants to go.
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, it is at 2:00 p.m., right? It is at
2:00 p.m., so you can actually go to the Mayor's thing and then go.
Council Chair Rapozo: Well, the Mayor's thing is at 10:00 a.m., right?
Councilmember Yukimura: 8:00 a.m.
Council Chair Rapozo: Oh, 8:30 a.m. Okay. Shucks.
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, everybody could now go at 2:00 p.m.
Council Chair Rapozo: Well, let us all go. Anyway, if there is nothing
else, the motion is to approve. Roll call, please.
The motion for adoption of Resolution No. 2018-13 was then put, and carried
by the following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Brun, Chock, Kagawa, Kaneshiro,
Kawakami, Yukimura, Rapozo TOTAL— 7,
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
JADE K. FOUNTAIN-TANIGAWA, County Clerk: Seven (7) ayes.
Council Chair Rapozo: With that, we will take our caption break and
then come back with our Visitor Industry tourism briefing.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 10:21 a.m.
The meeting reconvened at 10:33 a.m., and proceeded as follows:
COUNCIL MEETING 38 MARCH 14, 2018
(Councilmember Brun was noted as not present.)
Council Chair Rapozo: Can we take our third item out of order,
please?
There being no objections, C 2018-72 was taken out of order.
COMMUNICATIONS:
C 2018-72 Communication (03/07/2018) from Mark Perriello, President and
CEO of the Kaua`i Chamber of Commerce, requesting agenda time for a briefing on
"Responsible Tourism," from Ms. Olof Yrr Atladottir, former Director General of the
Icelandic Tourist Board and former Vice President of the European Travel
Commission: Councilmember Kaneshiro moved to receive C 2018-72 for the record,
seconded by Councilmember Kagawa.
(Councilmember Brun was noted as present.)
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much. Welcome. Can you
pronounce your name for me real quick?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
OLOF YRR ATLADOTTIR: Yes. If I cannot, then nobody can.
Council Chair Rapozo: What do you like to be called?
Ms. Atladottir: Olof Yrr Atladottir. Just call me Olof.
Council Chair Rapozo: Olof?
Ms. Atladottir: Yes, that is fine.
Council Chair Rapozo: Olof with that "oof?"
Ms. Atladottir: Yes. That is better than when I was in child
in the States and I was called Olive Oyl, the girlfriend of Popeye. I did not like that.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. With that, thank you for being here. I
will suspend the rules. We will go ahead with your presentation. Did you have
anything to open up with, Sue?
SUE KANOHO, Kaua`i Visitors Bureau, Executive Director: No. She has
a very long, beautiful biography that I will read tomorrow at the presentation.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is it tomorrow night?
Ms. Kanoho: The full presentation, yes.
COUNCIL MEETING 39 MARCH 14, 2018
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay.
Ms. Kanoho: This is really just kind of a top-line for you
folks, and she is going to go through that. Then, maybe we can do a little questions
and answers (Q&A) at the end.
Councilmember Yukimura: Maybe you could tell the millions who are
viewing...
Ms. Kanoho: Sue Kanoho, Kaua`i Visitors Bureau,
Executive Director. Last year, the Hawai`i Tourism Authority did a Global Tourism
Summit, and one of the presentations was by Olo£ It is one of the things that kind
of spoke to my heart and I know you were there, too, Councilmember Yukimura. I
just thought it is really opportune for what we are dealing with now with the
challenges of capacity and how we are dealing with the growth of the island, both
resident and visitor. I thought this might be perfect for everybody and maybe kick
off some ideas for us to think about for the future.
(Councilmember Brun was noted as not present.)
Ms. Kanoho: Certainly, Iceland is a Country and we are a
County, but there is a lot of correlations from what they have experienced to what we
are experiencing. I just thought it would be really good to see what they have been
through.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you.
Ms. Kanoho: That is what that is all about.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you.
Ms. Kanoho: I hope you all come tomorrow. Registration is
at 5:30 p.m. and it starts at 6:00 p.m. at the Aqua Kauai Beach Resort. It is free to
everyone. It is all you.
Ms. Atladottir: Thank you.
(Councilmembers Brun was noted as present; Council Chair Rapozo was noted
as not present.)
Ms. Atladottir: Thank you for having me. As Sue said, I will
just be going very quickly through not all of the slides and those that I have, I will
probably skim over some of them. This is just to sort of give you maybe an idea of the
context that I will be speaking within tomorrow because I believe very soundly that
tourism is at a crossroad and that it is having a very profound influence on all human
societies, and that it actually touches upon every human endeavor. We need to think
in a totally new way about, well, our communities and the way that we think public
policy, for example, and responsibilities. Very quickly, I will just jump through this.
One of the things I do is I use pictures of my family because I miss them when I am
COUNCIL MEETING 40 MARCH 14, 2018
away. This is my youngest daughter being a traveler, as you can see. Iceland is an
island, an independent republic, as Sue mentioned. It is very northerly. It is a
volcanic island and actually, a sister island to the islands of Hawai`i because it is
located upon a mantle plum. So it is a volcanic hotspot just like the Hawaiian Islands.
I always like that, and I can sort of say that Iceland is Hawaii, except without the
palm trees, which does not really relate except now the weather is sort of trying to
remind me of home in many ways.
Ms. Kanoho: I am sorry about that.
Ms. Atladottir: It is all your fault, Sue.
Ms. Kanoho: I have apologized to everyone.
Ms. Atladottir: Anyway, Iceland is a large island. It is the
eighteenth (18th) largest island in the world, one hundred three thousand (103,000)
square kilometer. Sixty-eight percent (68%)of it is three hundred (300) meters above
seawater and defined as a wasteland. Twelver percent (12%) is covered with glaciers
and only twenty-three percent (23%) is vegetated. Now, it is a spatially populated
island. There are only three hundred thirty-two thousand (332,000) Icelanders,
which is why we do not expect anybody to be able to pronounce our names, for
example. It is will the almost a city-state because seventy percent (70%) of the
population, as you see there, are living in or around the Capital area, the capital of
Reykjavik, with the rest of the population dispersed along the coastline around the
Country, mainly. With that, it also brings many challenges from a public policy point
of view. For example, if you look at transportation, that is obviously a challenge in
keeping up road systems, public transportation, and other things. I will maybe talk
about that more in-depth tomorrow.
However, tourism has been growing in leaps and bounds in the past six (6),
seven (7), eight (8) years, or so. In my talk tomorrow, I will sort of talk about the era
since the big economic crash in 2008 when Iceland basically went bankrupt, and in
which way tourism has been the driver behind the economic bouncing back of the
Country and actually, our big affluence these years and semesters. Tourism is very
important and it has had a very beneficial effect on Iceland. When we discuss tourism
in a critical way, we cannot forget that. We have had a large increase in tourisms
numbers. I will not go through the statistics very deeply. We have decreased the
seasonality, which means that we are making job on an annual basis, which is very
important. We have the increase of tourism-related companies in the five-year period
between 2011 and 2016; it about one thousand (1,000). You see that economically, it
is very important and also, from a rural development point of view, it is very
important because you cannot move a mountain. You can move people to the
mountain, which means that tourism assets in a nature-based tourism destination
like Iceland is, means that you create jobs where people want to maybe live and also
for small communities where maybe five (5) jobs can create a difference between
running a kindergarten and the school.
As you see, tourism has surpassed other export industries. It did that in 2013
and is the most important provider of exports and currency revenue, which is of
COUNCIL MEETING 41 MARCH 14, 2018
course, very important for a small economy and export-based economy like Iceland.
Tourism employment is a large percentage of the workforce. The graph shows, in
essence, that there are a lot of people working in tourism and that the increase in jobs
related to tourism is higher outside of the high season, in the summer, which means
that the work force is also evening out. So people are in larger amounts, able to have
careers within tourism and that is really important also, because it means
consistency in the workforce, which means a higher level of knowledge, and therefore,
of quality, which is important.
Concerning accommodations, we compared the two (2) years of July 2016 and
July 2017, because you have to compare room availability in the same period of time.
We can see that in Iceland as a whole, hotel rooms increased by seven percent (7%)
and five percent (5%) in the Capital area, while in the period, Airbnb availability
increased by eighty-four percent (84%) versus thirty-two percent (32%) in the Capital
area. This is, of course as I said to Sue yesterday, it is much more complicated to
build a hotel. You have go through all sorts of building regulations, licenses, and
things. While in essence, you only need to vacuum your floor to open up an Airbnb,
which is so much simpler and takes so little time. Airbnb is responding to a need, of
course, because the growth in tourism and head counting is very high in Iceland, but
it is also responding it a trend. So even if everybody would start building hotels, the
Airbnb question would not go away, which means that public policy needs to
accommodate—it is sort of like trying to ban the internet, to ban Airbnb. It is there
and it is something that people want, so there is a demand despite the availability of
hotel rooms and formal accommodations. I think we need to adjust realistically to
the fact and endeavor to find ways, if need be, force Airbnb providers to participate
in the economy and the quality structure of tourism as a whole, and that is a
challenge.
I will just jump over this one and just very quickly go through a few slides
concerning Iceland. This is just to highlight the fact that even though nature in
Iceland is, of course, the biggest driver of people deciding to come to Iceland, friends
and relatives are also very important, which means that word of mouth is important,
which means that reputation is everything. Reputation calls for responsibility on all
accounts because the visitors that come to Iceland are more and more acknowledging
the importance of quality assurance. Sometimes I say that even if half of the people
lie because they are saying what they want to be instead of what they really are, as
sometimes happens, we see this very clear upward trend in wanting to know what
they are getting and getting the quality that they expect. Also, we see a trend and I
will not go into this very closely. But the trend that we see is that people have open
eyes towards environmental practices within tourism. Our guests, like all other
people in the world, are not idiots, they know what they are seeing, they cannot
discern it, and they do realize when people are faking it because they have a realistic
view, if you look towards that.
What do visitors want? They want security. They do want authenticity or that
we design authenticity, even though that is maybe an oxymoron. But obviously,
people are not coming to sit in our living rooms, eat boiled fish and potatoes, and
watch television. They want something that they perceive as authentic while of
course, being an experience. They want genuine hospitality, not only from the
COUNCIL MEETING 42 MARCH 14, 2018
workforce involved in tourism, but from the people because they are visiting people.
They want quality. They want the quality that they pay for. They do not expect
luxury at all levels, but they want quality. They want professionalism and people
who know what they are doing. They want the enthusiasm, which is the sole force
behind tourism. We have to love what we do. You can hate working with fish, but
you cannot hate working in tourism because then, you are dead in the water.
What are people in Iceland experiencing? Iceland is doing well. You can see
that we have almost no unemployment now. We had a seven point five (7.5) gross
domestic product (GPD) increase in 2016. In 2017, it was a healthily three point six
percent (3.6%). We score very highly in most, if not all, indices that we compare
ourselves to. However, we have to accept the fact there are challenges that tourism
brings with it. We now need to look holistically towards destination development.
We cannot only look towards trying to get people to come in large amounts because
we need to be responsible and we need to be sustainable because tourism is not the
great white savior that some people wanted it to be at one point, as an antidote
towards heavy industry. For example, in Iceland, it can be as unsustainable as any
other industry. At this point in time, we really do not need to get people to travel in
itself because everybody is traveling, as you saw from the slide which concerns the
growth in international travel. Everybody is traveling. Everybody wants to travel.
We need to get people to choose where to go and how to travel instead of just
encouraging travel in itself. In Iceland, we do not need that much more visitors, but
we sometimes need better visitors, do we not? We need to create experiences while
giving the feeling of independence and we have to ask the question, I will get back to
this; what impact do we want tourism to have upon us? Not only what we can do to
encourage tourism and grow it, but what impact do we want to have tourists to have
on the environment, on our communities, on the perceptions of residents, and on the
perceptions of visitor because visitors change the destination, also. Tourism is
special. It has a direct relationship with the natural environment and with
residences' daily lives. There is a reciprocal communication between consumers and
the product because we are the product, in essence. At the same time, residents are
and should be emotionally attached to nature and to their own culture.
What do residents think? Unfortunately in Iceland, we see warning signs that
people are beginning to perceive tourism as, not a burden, but as something that
challenges their communities and nature. I will go a bit better into that more deeply
in this slide. We see that people are becoming more wary of many impacts that
tourism has, and rightly so. This means that we need to address that honestly and
without talking down to people and just talking about economic benefits, because that
is something that policymakers and the industry sometimes fall into the trap of doing.
They are saying, "Yes, why are you not positive? It is so beneficial economically."
They go, "I do not care. There is no room in my swimming pool anymore." So, you
cannot just throw statistics at people. You have to respect their emotional senses in
this respect because at the end of the day, this is people's lives that we are talking
about.
If you look at marketing, because at the end of the day, we will always be
marketing our destinations. When we are marketing goods to consumers, we usually
go through these steps. I will not go into them. But for example, the cow. If we are
COUNCIL MEETING 43 MARCH 14, 2018
marketing butter, the cow does not care. We can use aluminum foil, or gold foil, or
red foil, or paper. We can say that butter is exquisite and that it is made of nectar
even though the cow only ate hay the whole winter. The cow does not care. It just
keeps on ruminating. It makes more milk for more butter. However, when we are
marketing tourism, we need to, of course, market the product to the consumer as in
the instance of the butter, but we also need to market the consumer to the product.
That is, the residents need to be happy about the people that are buying into coming
to the destination and at the same time, the residents need to be happy about how
they are marketed. So it is much more complicated because product development and
marketing needs to be on residents' term, and especially in this day and age of social
media, you just cannot lie. You will be called out in five (5) seconds or something.
At the end of the day, we have a very matrix-like responsibility for tourism.
Everybody is responsible for something concerning tourism. Tourism providers are
obviously, responsible for their operations. The government, and I will go more
deeply into this in my talk tomorrow, is responsible both at national and local levels
for all sorts of things because tourism is dependent and building upon public goods
and services as a resource. So more than maybe any other industry, it is dependent
upon how government behaves. The government needs to take into that into account
in its planning and also be prepared to sort of stand on their own values concerning
what they want their society to be. Residents are very responsible. They are
responsible as voters, of course. But if we look at case of infrastructure and go back
to Airbnb, you cannot both be really critical about how many people are coming and
how they are all dragging their luggage behind them, and at the same time, be renting
out your basement room to get extra cash. You need to be responsible in your
behavior. Sometimes this means that adaptability change in perception. It is not
something you can just throw money at. You need time for dialogue, discourse,
change, thought, and manner. That is really important. Residents obviously, are
also dependent on their own attitudes and sometimes, they need to sort of maybe tune
down unnecessary negativity and be more solution-based. But that also calls for big
dialogue between all of the stakeholders and visitors. I cannot stress that any more.
They are not exempt from the responsibility. They change the destination in many
ways. They are also responsible for residents' attitudes, and they need to realize that
they are visiting somebody's home. If the homeowner wants people to take their shoes
off before they go in, then they just have to do that. That is just the way it is. The
homeowner does not have to change his home and he can set rules or standards on
how people should behave. That is what we can do because everybody is traveling.
So we can afford to be a bit selective in what we want people to do.
Now, in Iceland, we have done a lot of things. I will just run very quickly
through this. The industry has pledged an oath towards responsible tourism.
Obviously, they are only words, but they do raise the profile of responsibility within
the industry. I think that is always a big start and hopefully that will continue in
many ways. As I will go into, we have some resources in place to objectively evaluate
a company's conduct in that sense.
People want government to work on things that government should work on,
and that is something that unfortunately, and I say this because I am not in office
anymore. Governments are failing. Government works slowly and it should work
COUNCIL MEETING 44 MARCH 14, 2018
slowly because government is not a private industry. The government often needs to
be more proud of the things that they are doing and the time that it takes to do them,
but also, accept responsibility for what they need to do and sometimes the answer to
it is not just to privatize. Sometimes we just need to do better. That is just the way
it is.
Now residents, this is in Iceland. I think this is a very easy language and very
close to Hawaiian. Residents are very proud to be a good destination. This is a survey
from Reykjavik where the green bits are the people that are proud to be a good
destination. They still think, in high percentage, that our visitors increase our
quality of life, and that is great. Even though the warning signs are there, we are
proud to be receiving visitors and proud to be a destination. That is really important.
There are very many positive things and also, tourists in Iceland, some of them at
least have pledged to be responsible. We are also trying through our marketing and
promotional endeavors, to raise the profile of responsibility in behavior, in
preparation, and in the way that they travel around Iceland.
Ms. Kanoho: It is a good pledge.
Councilmember Yukimura: "I will take photos to die for, without dying
from them."
Ms. Atladottir: Yes because unfortunately, we have had
incidents of the opposite in Iceland.
(Council Chair Rapozo was noted as present.)
Ms. Kanoho: Similar to us.
Ms. Atladottir: We are living the year of the traveler.
Throughout the years, I think many policymakers have sort of thought that tourism
is great. It is great because you do not really need to plan it. Somebody just opens
up a guesthouse and then somebody has a horse and lets people ride on it. Everything
great and organic, and jobs are created. The best thing is that the government funds
do not really need to be used because you do not need to build harbors or power plants
like in Iceland, or do really complicated things in planning. But we have realized
that is not the case. Tourism is an industry like everybody else, like every other
industry. Even though, yes, we often end up somewhere we need to be in tourism
and everybody is happy, it does not mean that is the right way to go. Also, at the end
of the day, we have a big responsibility issue,which is global. It would be meaningless
for us to discuss leisure travel if we do not address things concerning climate change,
things concerning resource utilization both within Countries and across Countries,
things concerning Human Rights of workers across the globe, and our own behavior.
As I will go in-depth in my talk tomorrow, studies have shown that unfortunately,
people seem to be psychologically adapted to it being more allowable to behave like
an idiot when you are away from home. So that is something that we need to change.
We need to be more global citizens. If we does not get a handle on that, tourism will,
in essence, become the least of our worries because we are going through a social
change. Communities today, do not only consist of residents, but residents and
COUNCIL MEETING 45 MARCH 14, 2018
temporary residents, and each group has rights and has responsibilities. This public
policy needs to take it into account. At the same time, responsible tourism requires
cooperation from visitors and resident, and all need to realize that we are sometimes
and throughout our lives, we will sometimes be visitors acting as a guest in
somebody's home and sometimes, we will have to turn around and be hosts. This
means that we need to raise our level of understanding and sometimes our level of
self-understanding because we really need to figure out where we need to be. I will
conclude with that and hope that those who can, will give yourselves time to came
and listen to the whole talk tomorrow. Thank you.
Ms. Kanoho: And we are in a flash flood warning.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any questions? Councilmember
Kaneshiro.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: Thank you for making the long trip out here.
It is interesting seeing how there are some similarities. You are an island. I am sure
we could talk a long time about how you get your infrastructure from the seventy
percent (70%) out to the three percent (3%) or whatever it was way out in the boonies
and how you allocate your resources, but I do not think we have enough time to solve
all of that. I just have a few questions that popped up in my head when you were
going through the presentation. It is in regards to Airbnb. Have you seen an increase
the Airbnb affect the price of housing in Iceland?
Ms. Atladottir: Yes. As I will go into tomorrow, that is one of
the effects that we may be, did not foresee when this all started. Housing is becoming
more expensive, especially in central areas in the Capital area, but it is not only
Airbnb because it is also the fact that, as I will discuss...I am trying to raise the
expectations for tomorrow. It is also the effects of the fact that as you saw, we are
only three hundred thirty thousand (330,000) people in Iceland. We want to do other
things besides tourism, which means that we need to rely on good people wanting to
come to Iceland to work in the tourism trade. Those people also need housing because
tourism is the resource, it is a human resource heavy industry, and they have
families. So we need to adapt that. That is another challenge for policymakers
because we need to welcome those people, too. That, in effect, also raises housing. So
the growth of tourism has a very profound effect on housing prices in many instances.
Ms. Kanoho: And their unemployment was at two
percent (2%) like ours is.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: I saw that, and you went right into my second
question. With the increase of Airbnbs, increase in houses, and increase in visitors,
I am almost assuming people visit and it is kind of like Kauai, where they say it is a
great place to live, so then you have an increase in demand for the houses. Do you
know what your median house price is and how the residents feel about it? For
Kaua`i, I can tell you that we do not have a big supply of houses and we have a huge
demand for people that want to buy houses. It is mixed. There is a large demand
from locals, but there is also a large worldwide market of people that want to buy a
house here, and it is very competitive, which makes the price even higher. I was
COUNCIL MEETING 46 MARCH 14, 2018
wondering if you see that also happening and how do the residents feel about that, or
maybe it has not reached the point where the resident say, "If I want a house, I cannot
really get it because it is too small of a supply or the price of the house is too high,"
which is what is happening here.
Ms. Atladottir: I think the main issue in Iceland has been in
the past years or past few years, is the fact that it has become increasingly difficult
for young people to get housing. In Iceland, well, in the classical way of the getting
someplace to live in Iceland is to buy your own. That is something that makes Iceland
different from any other Scandinavian Country. So that is something that we also
maybe need to adapt to, that will not be the norm in the future. That would be
another public policy solution to provide affordable housing, but it has become
somewhat of a challenge for young people who want to buy smaller units, for example.
They often want to stay in the center of cities often because I think it is them that
frequent the bars and cafeterias rather than middle-aged people who just want to
stay home and go to sleep early. Anyway, that is something that is a challenge
because it is very frustrating for somebody not to be able to sort of have secure
housing in the young age when you are having your children and everything. So that
is something that is a main discussion in Iceland on those issues.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: Are there any policies or things that maybe
government or people have done to try to...
Ms. Atladottir: Yes. This is something that is being worked
upon on the governmental level, but it is a complicated issue. There is not any single
solution now, but the municipality, especially Reykjavik, is working on providing
more housing and also more rental housing. So it is being done, but then again with
the housing as well with the hotels, it takes a fairly long time to build. You will never
be able to respond to a crisis of shorts like that in a week or something. It will take
time. It will also take thoughtful planning.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: Okay. I look forward if you folks are able to
come up with some type of solution. We are all ears because we are facing that same,
exact problem. It is difficult. There is no one solution and you try a little bit here, a
little bit there, and there are unintended consequences that come with those. It is
hard. It is a difficult situation.
Ms. Kanoho: I think, too, and she will cover this tomorrow,
is educating the visitor before they get there. I do not know if anybody saw the news
yesterday, but again, somebody else went up the Haiku Stairs that was closed and
had to be rescued. There is just an inordinate amount for us in the State of Hawai`i,
I feel all islands are experiencing people climbing over a fence, getting hurt, and
wanting to sue the landowner when, in fact, the sign said, "Do Not Trespass." The
person admits that they were trespassing, gets hurt, and then wants to sue. I know
Iceland has experienced similar challenges, not so much on the trespassing side, but
going in places that you should not. I know with geysers, you were saying you have
had issues and they are not properly clothed, they go out, and they get exposure. She
has had some fatalities as well from an Iceland tourism standpoint. I just feel that
we really need to start holding the line harder and stricter on what kind of
COUNCIL MEETING 47 MARCH 14, 2018
experiences people have and what is okay and what is not okay. I just scolded
somebody on a blog who had Queen's Bath again. I am like, "You have to be kidding
me." I scolded them. It is in the blog now. Sue Kaneohe of the Kauai Visitors Bureau
scolded me. I said, "Not only do we not promote it, we do not want you promoting it
because you putting it out there to everybody else makes everybody else want to do
it. It is not okay." I will not get going on jumping off Shipwrecks either, but that is
my next little discussion.
Council Chair Rapozo: The tourist pledge that you have, I think, we
should give to everybody in the airplane. It is cute, the one that says, "I will take
photos to die for, without dying for them."
Ms. Kanoho: But do not die taking it, yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: That hits it right on the spot.
Ms. Kanoho: We really need up to that game, I think.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you for your presentation, Olof.
Ms. Atladottir: Thank you.
Councilmember Kagawa: I did not hear the cost of the average number
of a single-family home in United States (U.S.) dollars. In the capital city right now
in Hanama`ulu, the lowest price for a duplex is four hundred forty thousand
dollars ($440,000). I was just wondering what the cost is of a basic single-family home
in U.S. dollars because I want to make sure we are comparing apples to apples.
Ms. Atladottir: I do not think that I could have a comparable
number to that. I am sorry about that, because both of the economies are a bit
different. It is more expensive. It also depends on the cost of living and the location.
So it is very different whether you are in Reykjavik or go outside of Reykjavik. It can
differ between...
Councilmember Kagawa: In U.S. dollars, if I have five hundred
thousand dollars ($500,000), can I buy a house in Iceland?
Ms. Atladottir: A house?
Councilmember Kagawa: Yes.
Ms. Atladottir: Or an apartment?
Councilmember Kagawa: A basic house with five hundred thousand
dollars ($500,000).
COUNCIL MEETING 48 MARCH 14, 2018
Ms. Atladottir: Yes, but maybe not a very expensive house.
But, yes. As I said...
Councilmember Kagawa: So the housing prices are high as well?
Ms. Atladottir: It depends on the total square meters and
usually, you have a square meter comparison.
Ms. Kanoho: Obviously, you may have the exchange rate,
too. I will take a gander at that and get it to you.
Council Chair Rapozo: I guess the question, Councilmember Kagawa
is, what is the median price of a home in Iceland in your dollars or your currency?
Ms. Kanoho: Do you know?
Ms. Atladottir: I really do not want to answer that question
because as I said, it depends on whether it is an apartment or a villa.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay.
Ms. Atladottir: It depends on which area you are buying it, or
whether you are buy in the capital, or outside of the capital.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay.
Ms. Atladottir: It just sort of depends in that. As I said, in
Iceland, we go by square meter costs.
Council Chair Rapozo: Right.
Ms. Atladottir: Those are our comparable numbers, and that
is what I could come with to you. I could go with the statistics from Iceland and find
that for you. I do not have that in my head.
Council Chair Rapozo: No problem.
Councilmember Kagawa: I just wanted to see because the crux of the
problem with Airbnb and legalization is the impacts on residential home prices, which
is a huge problem in Kaua`i, in Hawaii, and in the nation.
Ms. Atladottir: Yes.
Councilmember Kagawa: I just wanted to see if there is a maybe reason
why maybe Iceland is more welcoming to Airbnb then Kauai.
Ms. Atladottir: Iceland is not really welcoming in that sense.
Iceland has set a law to try and restrict the activities of Airbnb. That is both from
this point of view, but also because if you have somebody providing Airbnb and (a),
COUNCIL MEETING 49 MARCH 14, 2018
he or she has four (4) units or something, then she is obviously not in the sharing
economy, which I always find a funny concept. But also, if he or she is running the
Airbnb eleven (11) months out of twelve (12), then she is obviously not just renting
out a room just to get some extra cash. She is running a business. However, her
property is still just taxed according to it being a private home and not a business
where the hotels need to pay a much higher property tax. So that is also an issue. It
is the issue of competitiveness and equality. I think you can address the problem or
the challenge from that point of view. What I meant to say was that it is sort of like
fighting windmills. If you are going to fight and try to delegalize or make it illegal to
provide that, because it is just there and they can just go underground, what you need
to try to do is get Airbnb providers or try to force Airbnb and it has been difficult
everywhere they have tried to do that. To provide the statistics that give you the
basis for, for example, taxing. So they are participating in the funding of the
community and of the society, and evening out the competitive edge that being
underground can give you, unfortunately. I think that is maybe the issue concerning
Airbnb.
Councilmember Kagawa: Yes. For me, I am not a type as a government
decision-maker to say underground is okay. I am not okay with underground.
Ms. Atladottir: Exactly.
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kawakami.
Councilmember Kawakami: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. Thank you
for the presentation and coming all this way. Five (5) years ago, Iceland was not even
on our list of destinations to go and visit, but with social media, it has risen to the top
when I think of my wife's top three (3) destinations to go and see.
Ms. Kanoho: That is right.
Councilmember Kawakami: I like the fact that responsible tourism has
taken into account that everybody is responsible for all of the responsibilities that are
out there, including the visitor. With your Icelandic pledge, it really spells it out.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as not present.)
Councilmember Kawakami: Here is what we are challenged with on
Kauai. We have what we call "wahi pana" in Hawaii. Those are sacred places that
are meant for our people. We need to have places that are just for us.
Ms. Atladottir: Definitely.
Councilmember Kawakami: Recently, what we have been dealing with at
the State Legislature and here locally with our County lifeguards, is we have this
influx of guidebooks that are sending people off of the beaten path. They are sending
them to places to take photos and they are dying to get these photos. They are
COUNCIL MEETING 50 MARCH 14, 2018
literally dying and they are putting our first-responders in very precarious situations.
It is these guidebooks. These guidebooks are sending them off on to private property
to trespass. They are sending them into areas that I would not even send my children
because they are too dangerous. When we try to work with these guidebooks, they
say that we are infringing on their constitutional right of free speech. Have you faced
this problem yet with guidebooks?
Ms. Atladottir: Yes, we face this problem with guidebooks.
Councilmember Kawakami: How do you deal with it?
Ms. Atladottir: Because in essence, people can write what
they want, yes. There was a very unfortunate publication I remember some seven (7)
or eight (8) years ago, which was supposedly a publication opening up natural pools
to people. Unfortunately, many of the natural pools are actually sort of pools in the
backyards of people who then woke up with somebody bathing in their hot tubs. It
made for interesting discussion sometimes. So, yes, we have this problem. We have
the problem of guidebooks from all over the world saying a lot of things. What is more
in Iceland is we have had the problem since the Global Positioning System (GPS)
technology came. Iceland has a big, vast highland and people want to drive off-road
and whatnot. Some books very irresponsibly print routes that are not actually
accessible or may be accessible, but only for the people that...
Ms. Kanoho: Residents.
Ms. Atladottir: No, not even residents. These are roads that
are dangerous and you need to know how to travel them. Then, people come in
unchained jeeps or something and fall directly into the lagoon or whatever. Yes, we
have these problems. It is a very difficult problem to address because (a), you cannot
follow every single publication in whole wide world. It is just impossible, and (b),
there is freedom of speech. It is something that needs to be addressed. Maybe this
is one of the many instances where we could have more global or international
cooperation on these issues because one of the things that has always astounded me
in my ten (10) years as Director General and also in my international corporation, is
that every time we started talking about international corporation, everybody started
talking about how we can cooperate in marketing. I was always like, "Why should
we do that? We are competing in that sense." However, there are so many things
that could be cooperating on. We could open up a dialogue on the responsible
publication. We could try to get big publishing houses with us or big social media
providing search engines, Google, because obviously, they also have an incentive to
have correct information. I am just saying this now, it is not stopping in my brain.
It is just going directing from the idea stage to this, but I think that this is something
that could be cooperated more on and needs to be addressed. Maybe nature and
adventure destinations need to address this issue in a more proactive way. I totally
agree with you because there is freedom of speech. That is true. I firmly believe we
do not want to restrict that because that is a slippery slope that I, for one, do not want
to go down. However, we need to somehow address the fact that anybody can write
anything, and if this goes viral, then everybody seems to know.
COUNCIL MEETING 51 MARCH 14, 2018
Councilmember Kawakami: For us, you are right. Anybody can say
anything. There are blogs out there. But as far as the guidebooks, there is just a few
of them that we have identified. I know in past, Senator Kouchi and Representative
Tokioka tried to address it telling them, "You are spending people into private
properties and they are getting injured, they are getting hurt, and so stop. We want
to hold you are you accountable." They got attacked. They got personally attacked,
even by members of the public who were misled by these guidebooks to say, "Hey,
they are trying to gag order all of us, all of society. They are enemies of freedom of
speech," which is totally untrue. Sue, have they done any corrective actions that they
have said?
Ms. Kanoho: They did one (1) corrective action.
Councilmember Kawakami: Only one (1)?
Ms. Kanoho: Only one (1). The most egregious one did one
little thing for us at Senator Kouchi's request.
Councilmember Kawakami: Are they held liable for guiding people to
break the law?
Ms. Kanoho: No. Ironically, I took Olof up to Wailua Falls
yesterday. We saw two (2) people climb over the fence and go down. It is totally
illegal. She got to see me call them out, not to mention the two (2) illegal peddler
concessions that were happening there, which is now County, not State, and
somebody flying their drone in a State park. So that is what she got to see yesterday
when I took her to Wailua Falls; three (3) egregious illegal things happening all at
once.
Councilmember Kawakami: In looking at your graph and the public
sentiment is slowly eroding so far as your residents are viewing visitors and their
impact, it is eroding just as ours does.
Ms. Atladottir: There is an increase in skepticism, yes.
Councilmember Kawakami: For us, one of the complaints that we get is
that why are these visitors now showing up to places that historically, they never
would go?
Ms. Kanoho: Instagram.
Councilmember Kawakami: It is the guidebooks.
Ms. Kanoho: Instagram.
Councilmember Kawakami: Oh, and Instagram, too.
Ms. Kanoho: Social media and Instagram and then when
they tag the geolocation of where they are. I have seen people on the top of Wailua
COUNCIL MEETING 52 MARCH 14, 2018
Falls, somebody was doing a stag yoga position. It is totally illegal. I called up the
photographer and said, "Take that down. That is totally illegal. I will have the State
DLNR send you a letter if you want."
(Councilmember Brun was noted as not present.)
Ms. Kanoho: I could not do it for all of the things that are
out there. If you just Google "#Queen's Bath," you will see how many people have
posted photos and everybody wants to do that. They are like, "How do I get there?"
We do not give directions. It is really sad because some of these people are doing it,
and some of these people posting are residents that are climbing over a barrier, going
to the end, and taking a selfie. It is really sad.
Councilmember Kawakami: Well, it is frustrating because of the people
that have to deal with it are like Dr. Downs, who is in the audience. He is an
Emergency Room (ER) Doctor and he has to go and talk to these families that have
lost a loved one, quite frankly, because of these guidebooks. Until we can somehow
hold these companies accountable and there has to be a way. I just do not see how
we cannot go after them and say, "Hey, we are going to hold you accountable for some
of these tragedies." It is just going to continue to happen. They make these
assurances, right, Sue?
Ms. Kanoho: Yes.
Councilmember Kawakami: They tell us, "We are going to play better with
you. We are going to be responsible. We are going to do this and we are going to do
that." I just bought the latest copy. I still see some of craziest places that, like I said,
I would not even send my loved ones. Thank you so much for the presentation.
MARK PERRIELLO, President and Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of the
Kaua`i Chamber of Commerce: Councilmember Kawakami, just to add
something.
Ms. Kanoho: And you are?
Mr. Perriello: I have not done that yet, have I? I am Mark
Perriello with the Kaua`i Chamber of Commerce. I was always taught that with
freedom, comes responsibility. I do not know how we underscore that to these
guidebooks, but I think you are right on the money when it comes to bringing up the
issue. We need to figure something out.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Is there any thought to commending or
identifying the responsible guidebooks?
Ms. Kanoho: There was talk about that at one time. There
was talk about whether we would get a certification. I know Sandy Kato-Klute back
in the day, we talked about if we would put a little certification on there. But that is
COUNCIL MEETING 53 MARCH 14, 2018
far beyond my pay grade and job. I do think we can do more to lift up people that are
doing right thing. At least this person that I nicely called out changed their listing.
Unfortunately, they still kept the picture up, but they did put in that they had been
contacted by the Visitors Bureau and said, "Please do not go there." I commented
about risking our first-responders' lives for that. Granted I am not objective, but it is
one of those things that I think people do not think that far of oh, hey, it is cool I get
hurt. But hey, it is cool you get hurt, and now we have first-responders risking their
lives on helicopter rescues and pulling you out or carrying you out or whatever it is.
Some of these things are unnecessary, to me. You can still have a good time on this
island and not be egregiously disrespectful to the place. To Councilmember
Kawakami's point, there are certain places you can go and certain places you cannot.
I know Nalani just pointed out something out to me, that somebody was doing yoga
class near a heiau. It is totally inappropriate. I sent the message out to some of the
properties nearby and said, "If any of you are working with these people, please tell
them it is inappropriate. It is not okay." We need to do that. We have to educate.
Councilmember Yukimura: I think this whole idea of the visitors being
responsible or all of the us when we become travelers or when we are travelers, being
responsible and having certain responsibilities as indicated in your Icelandic pledge,
is a really good way to change the consciousness about who we were, what we do, and
where we go.
Ms. Kanoho: And what we are about.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you. I think just this session alone is
going to help raise conscientiousness on this island if everybody begins to do their
part in talking about it and educating others. I saw that three hundred (300)
companies in Iceland have taken the pledge.
Ms. Atladottir: Yes, at least the last time.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. But you are inviting visitor industry
companies to take these pledges. That will do a lot to increase the awareness as well.
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present.)
Ms. Atladottir: Yes.
Ms. Kanoho: I would just point out that Kaua`i Community
College just started, thank you to the team over there, guidebook certification
program for tour guides. I should not say guidebook, but tour guide certification, and
also customer service. I have do really comment and congratulate the college for
trying to reach out. It is just that we are all so busy right now and the island is full,
so it is hard to get staff to go. Hopefully, they filled up. I think we are starting to
step more into those areas, and we really need to make that part of who we are. I
know when I was in Niagara Falls, in that park area there, both from the Canadian
and U.S. side, no guide is allowed in that park without being certified. Every year,
they have to pay two hundred dollars ($200) to be certified and they have a set of
rules that they have to follow. If they do not, they are kicked out. I think it is just
COUNCIL MEETING 54 MARCH 14, 2018
holding the line a little tighter to be pono to the place and make sure we are saying
the right stories and we are sharing the right information with visitors so that they
are safe and also enjoy the place.
Councilmember Yukimura: That is a wonderful phrase,pono to the place.
Ms. Kanoho: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions?
Councilmember Kawakami: Yes, I have one (1) more question.
Council Chair Rapozo: Please, go ahead.
Councilmember Kawakami: I noticed that there are a lot of similarities;
people traveling to Iceland to experience the wilderness, hiking, your open spaces,
and your parks. In your business plan, everybody is responsible, do visitors have to
pay to access parks? In Hawaii, if you go to KSke`e, it is free. But there were talks
that there is tremendous maintenance and maybe visitors should pay a fee like every
else, Ke`e Beach, for example. There is debate that there should be a fee imposed on
visitors for the impacts. Is this any fee-based experiences in Iceland?
Ms. Kanoho: Do the tour guides have to pay a fee to take
people out?
Ms. Atladottir: Well, I would like to first state that I am a
proud owner of an annual pass to the Hawaiian National Parks.
Ms. Kanoho: Good job.
Ms. Atladottir: I bought it when I went to the Big Island in
September, and it is still valid. I just lost it. These fee structures are a very
interesting question. Different Countries address them in different ways. For
example, in New Zealand, they have the system where a tour operator needs to pay
concessions, where private visitors do not. So the parks are open to private visitors,
but those who are utilizing the resource for profit. In Iceland, we are very good at
discussing things, so we have discussed this for about thirty (30) years. The last I
heard, I have been out of the Country for three (3) months now since I took a job
elsewhere. The last I heard, they were thinking about starting the discussion again,
which is nice. But the fact is this is not a very simple discussion because at least in
Iceland, one of the things that happened when a fee structure was discussed for
natural attractions in general, the residents were all up in arms because it turns out
that you cannot just have a fee for foreigners. Everybody has to pay then, and we
were not there yet as residents. Also, because we are part of the European economic
area, it means that we cannot discriminate against people from that part of the world.
So there has to be the same fee for Icelanders and everybody in the European
economic area. As an export driven Country, we, of course, know that openness is
COUNCIL MEETING 55 MARCH 14, 2018
the most important thing for our prosperity, in general. So we cannot really close off
just to be able to discriminate between guests and residents. So you can go about
that in many ways. You can have something that you call a "pass" or something for
natural attractions, you can have a fee for defined national parks. So it is a national
park service that has those fees. In Iceland, however, we wanted to have things very
complicated. So we have three (3) national parks and two (2) ministries that govern
them in three (3) different ways because that means that we are really big because
everything is complicated. We have quite a long way to go there. But I think this
discussion is becoming more structured. Against that, the tourism industry of course
points out that they bring a lot of the tax revenue, both through visitors and through
their own industry taxes. So, it is not a simple discussion. But it also means that
you need to know why, because if a fee structure can also be a means to limit the
accessibility to arrange for people to go elsewhere if you have a different fee structure.
So you need to think about that beforehand. I also think, because you were
mentioning places that residents feel that is a cherished place for them, yes. You
need to hold on to those places. It is very important. I do not think a fee structure
would address that, no. I think that needs to be addressed in a different way.
Councilmember Kawakami: Sue, as a follow-up, if the State of Hawai`i
wanted to impose a fee structure, could we, in essence, draw the line between visitors
and local residents by showing proof of identification? We could do that, right?
Ms. Kanoho: Yes.
Councilmember Kawakami: We are not similar to Iceland in that fashion
where you cannot?
Ms. Kanoho: Correct. I will tell you that they are looking at
that. State Parks is looking at that now. As you know, for Ha`ena State Park, they
will, in fact, have a limit on how many people can be in there, mostly from a visitor
standpoint. They will only be so many permits issued for that because that particular
area is grossly overused to the point of destruction, and it is not okay. I think that is
where everybody is really realizing that we have to put restrictions on ourselves or
this place will not be here for future generations and that is just not okay.
Councilmember Kawakami: Thank you.
Mr. Perriello: One thing that you folks might consider is a
step before fees, and that is the ability to make a donation. Right now, when our
County parks and our State parks, if someone enjoys the park and they want to give
back, we do not have a mechanism for that.
Ms. Kanoho: We did talk about that. That is a good point.
Mr. Perriello: That might be someplace to start.
Ms. Kanoho: Good point.
COUNCIL MEETING 56 MARCH 14, 2018
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions for the panel?
If not, thank you very much.
Ms. Kanoho: Thank you so much.
Council Chair Rapozo: We will see you all tomorrow night.
Ms. Kanoho: We will see you tomorrow.
Councilmember Yukimura: Can you just repeat for everybody, what is
happening tomorrow night?
Ms. Kanoho: Thursday, 5:30 p.m. registration, just so I
have to make sure I have enough chairs. At 6:00 p.m., Olof will be presenting the
full, this is just a partial presentation of her discussion on responsible tourism, at the
Aqua Kaua`i Beach Resort. Be there no later than 6:00 p.m.
Council Chair Rapozo: It is a great place to have it.
Ms. Kanoho: Yes. You will be there, right?
Councilmember Yukimura: The Aqua...
Ms. Kanoho: Kauai Beach Resort, the old Hilton.
Councilmember Yukimura: At the mouth of the Wailua River?
Council Chair Rapozo: No.
Ms. Kanoho: No. Aqua Kaua`i Beach Resort, Nukolii.
Councilmember Yukimura: Oh.
Council Chair Rapozo: That beautiful resort right past...
Councilmember Yukimura: A few months ago, it was called Kaua`i Beach
Resort?
Ms. Kanoho: It is still Aqua Kaua`i Beach Resort right now.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
Ms. Kanoho: Nothing has changed that I know of.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes. It used to be the Hilton.
Ms. Kanoho: Not yet.
Council Chair Rapozo: And then Radisson.
COUNCIL MEETING 57 MARCH 14, 2018
Ms. Kanoho: Right.
Council Chair Rapozo: And the Outrigger.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
Ms. Kanoho: Right.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay, just so everybody gets it. It is Kaua`i
Beach Resort.
Ms. Kanoho: Kaua`i Beach Resort, yes. She will have the
presentation tomorrow. Thank you for your time. If anybody wants to put in an order
for sun, I will take it. Thank you very much.
Council Chair Rapozo: For what?
Ms. Kanoho: Sun.
Ms. Atladottir Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there anyone in the audience wishing to
testify? Seeing none, we will call the meeting back to order.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any further discussion? Go ahead,
Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: I would like to thank Sue and Olof for being
here. It is really helpful to see how another visitor destination is both attracting and
dealing with the visitors that come. The visitor industry is such an important
industry to our island. To be able to address these issues is very important to
everyone here. Thank you very much. I hope people will be able to come tomorrow
night for a more lengthy discussion because this public conversation is very
important. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Anyone else? If not, thank you
Olof, Sue, and Mark. I am having Eddie get Olof a lapel pin from the County of Kaua`i
so she can take it back to Iceland. It is here. There is no chicken on it. We will make
sure you can take this back to Iceland. Did you let her know that it is the island logo?
Councilmember Yukimura: And if you rub it, it will bring the sun.
Council Chair Rapozo: Or a chicken. Is there any other discussion?
The motion to receive C 2018-72 for the record was then put, and unanimously
carried (Pursuant to Rule No. 5(b) of the Rules of the Council of the County of
COUNCIL MEETING 58 MARCH 14, 2018
Kauai, Councilmember Brun was noted as silent (not present), but shall be
recorded as an affirmative for the motion).
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. If there is no objection, I
would like to take the Fire Department. Dr. Downs is here. He is waiting and wants
to provide testimony. If there is no objection, I would like to take that item first.
There being no objections, C 2018-63 was taken out of order.
C 2018-63 Communication (02/15/2018) from the Fire Chief, requesting
Council approval to indemnify the State of Hawai`i and their employees and agents,
per acceptance of the indemnification language contained in the Revocable Permit
No. 7908: Councilmember Kaneshiro moved to approve C 2018-63, seconded by
Councilmember Yukimura.
(Councilmember Kawakami was noted as not present.)
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
Ms. Parker: Alice Parker, for the record. Absolutely!
MONTY DOWNS: Yes, real quick.
Council Chair Rapozo: Dr. Downs, you need to state your name.
Mr. Downs: - Oh, yes. Monty Downs, President of the
Kaua`i Lifeguard Association. Just a quick update. I think this is step one hundred
thirty-eight (138) in getting this tower in place where we want it over on what we call
the "tombolo" at Po`ipii Beach Park. We actually dodged a bullet three (3) weeks ago.
We had a seventy-one (71) year-old man drown on the other side of the tombolo where
the lifeguards cannot see. A couple visitors, swimmers pulled him into the beach and
then ran screaming around the tombolo to the lifeguard tower. The lifeguards ran to
the scene. He was lifeless. They did Cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR). I am
very happy to say that after three (3) days in the Intensive Care Unit (ICU), he is
back alive and with his family.
(Councilmember Kawakami was noted as present.)
Mr. Downs: We kind of dodged a bullet. That is exactly
the area that we are addressing. The tower itself, you actually approved that.
Actually, the language you are approving today, you passed five (5) or six (6) weeks
ago, and that was from the State Office of Conservation and Coastal Lands (OCCL).
This one is from the State Land Division. I think it is the exact same language, just
a different signature page, so we have to go through this again. The tower itself, I
thought would be on-island by now. But the undercarriage with the wheels and jacks,
is actually a portable kind of thing, but very good looking tower. I did not realize it,
but it is the first time they built this. The person who makes the towers makes them
for all of California and all of Hawaii. I thought they would just roll one onto the
COUNCIL MEETING 59 MARCH 14, 2018
barge and we would be good to go. But it is actually going to be loaded onto the barge
on March 24th in Long Beach.
(Councilmember Kawakami was noted as not present.)
Mr. Downs: It will be getting here two (2) or three (3)
weeks after that, and then take a couple of weeks to assemble. I am hoping May Pt
sounds like a realistic date. I am hoping the day that it is put in place, we can have
a little bit of a ceremony with some of you there because it is quite a big deal. It is
the first new tower that we have had in nine (9) or ten (10) years. That is about all I
have to say. I hope you will approve this language.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: Would this new tower provide better safety
and visibility, as well as a faster response?
Mr. Downs: Yes, absolutely. I kind of use my hand to show
that the Po`ipu tower is here, the tombolo is here, and this is where the people are all
getting into trouble, just around the tombolo. The lifeguards often spend half their
day sitting here in the sand to keep an eye on this area because there is the funny
little rip current. This tower is actually not only for the people's safety, but to me, for
the lifeguards' safety as well.
Councilmember Kagawa: Perfect. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions for Dr. Downs?
If not, thank you very much for being here, Dr. Downs.
Mr. Downs: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: I know you had a day off today, and you spent
half the day here. Thank you.
Mr. Downs: I enjoyed the discussions about the TAT,
visitor one, the companies that you pointed out that signed a pledge. I think that is
pretty cool. I am hoping we can do that. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Anyone else? Seeing none, I will
call the meeting back to order.
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any further discussion? Seeing none,
the motion is to approve.
The motion to approve C 2016-63 was then put, and unanimously carried
(Pursuant to Rule No. 5(b) of the Rules of the Council of the County of Kauai,
COUNCIL MEETING 60 MARCH 14, 2018
Councilmember Brun was noted as silent (not present), but shall be recorded as
an affirmative for the motion).
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Now, we can go back to the
regular agenda.
C 2018-61 Communication (02/12/2018) from the Acting County Engineer,
requesting Council approval of the provision for the payment of Attorneys' Fees
contained within the Detention Basin Agreement made between the County of Kaua`i
and Kiahuna Fairways, LLC, for the Pili Mai Development as the detention basins
are required to collect, temporarily store, and control rates of stormwater runoff from
the development: Councilmember Kagawa moved to approve C 2018-61, seconded by
Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: I have a question on this for the
Administration or possibly Mauna Kea.
Council Chair Rapozo: Let us have Mauna Kea first and see if he can
answer it. If not, we will bring up Lyle.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: I know our Attorneys reviewed it.
Council Chair Rapozo: The rules are suspended.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
MAUNA KEA TRASK, County Attorney: Aloha. For the record, Mauna
Kea Trask, County Attorney.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: Mauna Kea, thank you. My question is, why
do we have an agreement like this? Is it necessary? When I think of a development
and detention basin, I typically thought that is the development's responsibility. I do
not see why the County needs to sign anything with them regarding a detention basin
that is part of their development and part of their responsibility. I was kind of
questioning how this is being brought to us.
Mr. Trask: It is a good question. This is a Detention
Basin Agreement. There was an Ordinance passed a long time ago. It is PM-31-79
for the development of this area in the first place. It was the first project development
Ordinance. Condition 11 under that Ordinance states, "The drainage diversion
channels for the development shall be reviewed and approved by Public Works
Department, and settling basins shall be provided if required." They did a drainage
study and their engineers showed that because of the topography in that area of
KOloa, Kiahuna down by the bottom by Waikomo Stream, it is a natural...just the
float of the water goes in and through that area necessitating a detention basin.
(Councilmember Kawakami was noted as present.)
COUNCIL MEETING 61 MARCH 14, 2018
Mr. Trask: Normally, these things get review and
approved by Department of Public Works without coming to you. However, the Office
of the County Attorney, as we learn more and get better at our job, we found out
certain agreements were entered into by the County and as signed off by the Office
of the County Attorney in the past that provided for things such as attorneys' fees.
After researching the issue further, we found that it is probably not appropriate to do
that without Council's approval because the effect of the County agreeing to
attorneys' fees means that money is committed, in a sense, to the future without
coming to the appropriate legislative body who has control of the purse strings. We
have instituted not a new policy, but an appropriate policy, that if any Department
is seek to agree to attorneys' fees, you have to come to Council for approval. The
detention basin, in general, if you do not approve the attorneys' fees—I also want to
bring your attention to the fact that the attorneys' fees is Condition 10. There is an
indemnification provision that does provide for it. The developer indemnifying the
County for pretty much everything, except for willful or want and acts, or intentional
conduct by the County officers and employees, which is reasonable, but still yet, look
at that. If you do not approve either of those provisions in document or do not approve
the document because of those proper visions, then we will just simply instruct the
Department, "You will have to take those out, it is not a deal, and we go negotiate it
without those provisions."
(Councilmember Brun was noted as present.)
Mr. Trask: So that is kind of where it is. We do not want
to bind the County any commitments without going to you first, as appropriate.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: Is this a typical document that we usually do
for a development when there is a drainage basin?
Mr. Trask: We do not typically have attorneys' fees in
them, but in this case, it was requested. My signature was on it. The Department
makes the policy. They figure out what they want to agree to. It is legal, if you agree,
as long as you gets Council approval. Policy-wise, it is up to you whether you want
do that or not. Obviously, if there is a dispute, it is your liability and your
development. Why should we pay attorneys' fees? That is a fair question. If you do
not think it is reasonable, that is yours to make.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: That is my whole question on why we need to
be on the agreement. It is their detention basin. They are required to maintain it.
They do everything.
Mr. Trask: I think under the Drainage Ordinance, if
drainage is required, it is appropriate for the Department of Public Works to review
it and sign off just to make sure the engineering is good and that it does not provide
a danger to public health, safety, or welfare. So that is the intent of this. But the
agreement for attorneys' fees or indemnification is something that I want you to look
at closely. If you do not think it is appropriate for the County to be bound by those
terms, well then say, "No." You can say "no" and then we will just go back to the
COUNCIL MEETING 62 MARCH 14, 2018
development and say, "We cannot agree to this. The Council did not want to do it,"
so we will just move on.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: Have we signed agreements like this in past
that had that?
Mr. Trask: Various agreements have come to this body
before for indemnification for various thing for attorneys' fees. Sometimes they are
appropriate and sometimes they are not. It all depends. It is really your choice.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: Okay. For me, I am erring on the side of just
saying, "Why do we need to sign up for that? Why would we agree to that?"
Mr. Trask: The scope, I think, under PM-31-79, was that
they would have this plan, the Department of Public Works would review it, and if
appropriate under the National Drainage Manual—I forget what it is specifically
called, and our Drainage Ordinance, then we would sign off and that would be okay
under the legal requirement of development. However, specific terms like this, that
is not covered by the project management ordinance. It is notice not provided in the
Drainage Ordinance. So you are going to have to be okay with that.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: I am confused because with a lot of
development plans, the Department of Public Works signs off on a whole bunch things
and I would think that where the detention basin is and how big it is, is just
something that they would sign off. But you do not do an individual Detention Basin
Agreement with language on attorneys' fees and things like that.
Mr. Trask: There is some kind of broad, general good
policy about it, too, because what we have seen in the past is some of these
developments are supposed to form Association of Apartment Owners (AOAOs), that
are supposed to maintain these drainage basins, and they are supposed to provide for
funds. Sometimes, they never form or they go away and they are invalidated
somehow. Then, you will get the calls from of the residents in the area saying, "You
clean it up," meaning the County. So having that extra agreement protects from that
type of possibility as well.
Councilmember Yukimura: Council Chair Rapozo.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: May I?
Council Chair Rapozo: Go ahead.
Councilmember Yukimura: I have the same concerns as Councilmember
Kaneshiro. To me, this is an administrative decision and the Office of the County
Attorney should tell us whether we need it or not. If there are those concerns about
whether an AOAO forms and what the follow-up is, that should be in the agreement,
too, that they need to send us a letter showing that they have been formed by a certain
COUNCIL MEETING 63 MARCH 14, 2018
date and when our Department of Public Works. Hopefully, when we are
well-computerized, there will be a red-flag that comes up that says, "Today was the
deadline for the AOAO registration and therefore, they violated their agreement if
they have not sent in confirmation that they were registered," and that kind of
tracking needs to be done, but not by attorneys' fees provision.
Mr. Trask: To be clear, you do not need the attorneys'fees
or any indemnification language that would otherwise implicate or bind the County.
You do not. So if you were to refuse that today, it would be a good negotiating thing
to go.
Councilmember Yukimura: Why do you folks not refuse it and just say,
"We are the ones drafting this agreement. We do not think it is necessary," and do
not put it in there?
Mr. Trask: As an attorney, certain decisions are the
client's to make, and this is a decision for you to make. I do not feel comfortable
making your policy calls for you. If it is something that you think is appropriate, you
can vote for it. If you think it is something that is inappropriate, you can vote against
it. I am happy to tell you what I think, but the call is yours to make.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay, and I do not see this as a policy call that
we are to make.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: If we refuse this today, what is next up step?
Lyle is back there.
Mr. Trask: The Acting County Engineer can state his
•
position.
Councilmember Kagawa: Does it hold up the construction of the
detention basin?
Mr. Trask: My idea is that we just take it back to the
developer and say, "The Council would not agree to this, so we need to take it out." It
is just how it is.
Councilmember Kagawa: You could say that they do not agree with it at
this time, not knowing what the ramifications are. We need to know if we agree, of
course we know they are going to go through because they have negotiated that they
want these attorneys' fees in and what have you. If the Council refuses, then what
are the ramifications? I think that is clearly what we want to know. If you do not
know that answer, then perhaps you could take that to them and if the ramifications
impact the building of this detention basin, then we can decide whether we want to
approve it at that later date.
Mr. Trask: That is a point to be made, definitely.
COUNCIL MEETING 64 MARCH 14, 2018
Councilmember Kagawa: Okay.
Councilmember Yukimura: Council Chair Rapozo, I have a question for
the Department of Public Works?
Council Chair Rapozo: Public Works.
LYLE TABATA, Acting County Engineer: Good morning, Council Chair
Rapozo and Members of the Council. Lyle Tabata, Acting County Engineer.
Councilmember Yukimura: Good morning, Lyle. Thank you being here.
This was initiated by the developer, not by us.
Mr. Tabata: The request for the collection of the fees.
Councilmember Yukimura: For this provision regarding attorneys' fees,
which provision says that in cases of dispute, the prevailing party will pay for the
attorneys' fees of the other side, right? Is this something that you need or would
recommend for the Department of Public Works'Administration and oversight of this
project?
Mr. Tabata: To clarify, the detention basin is constructed.
This is basically a maintenance agreement that we have written and we have created
a bit more detail as to holding a developer or an association responsible moving into
the future because we have had other subdivisions that had an association that
dissolved, and we have no recourse to find who the leadership is and the ability to
have the association then maintain their basin moving forward. In the case of a
subdivision that we are trying to get the community or that subdivision to create an
association that dissolved, we are having to letter every single resident and make
them aware of their responsibilities, and have them, I guess the term is "incorporate
a new association." It is a very long and painful process.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes.
Mr. Tabata: In the effort to try and put as much
responsibility and teeth for longevity into these agreements, we have had the Office
of the County Attorney help us and assist us. But because it is a bit more complicated
than in past, I guess the attorneys for this AOAO is trying to recover the fees. So
they are asking for recovery of fees in the creation of this document.
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, it is recovery of fees in case of a dispute,
right?
Mr. Tabata: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: So we are not paying for the creation and
signing of a maintenance agreement.
Mr. Tabata: No.
COUNCIL MEETING 65 MARCH 14, 2018
Councilmember Yukimura: Right. I commend the Department of Public
Works for addressing this problem because if you have a detention basin that is not
being maintained, it can cause a lot of problems.
Mr. Tabata: Yes. It becomes a health and safety issue for
the community.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, it does. It is good that you are now
requiring maintenance agreements. In your agreement, how are you ensuring the
ongoing maintenance of a detention basin in the situation that an AOAO dissolves?
Mr. Tabata: We are having them place a bond on their
project.
Mr. Trask: State laws provides that if there are any
infrastructural needs or there are any liens and similar circumstances, it has to
attach to a specific type of fund that an AOAO has to set up. We cannot lien every
single property joint and severally in the development. So there are certain
restrictions that we can operate under. Like Lyle said, this is a solution to what we
have identified as a current problem. So we are trying to improve our program in
this regard. The key word is "to the preliminary party." A lot of litigations focus on
who wins. If you get one dollar ($1), a nominal amount, that means we have to pay
hundreds of thousands of dollars because you want one dollar ($1), or maybe there
are no damages, but you prevailed on the legal question. This is not our property. We
are not granting a usufruct on this. It is your property and your detention basin, like
Councilmember Kaneshiro said, so you pay for it.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, but if we have approved something that
is defective or does not really meet our requirements, but from our oversight, we do
not do it properly, I can see that they could come back at us.
Mr. Trask: I would disagree only because under the
Drainage Ordinance and the Grading and Grubbing Ordinance, whether or not we
should have granted a permit and did not, or we did and we should not have—all of
the information and engineering reports are provide to the County by the developer.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
Mr. Trask: So we are relying upon their representation.
For the record, we have no liability if something happens when we rely on their
submittals. I just want to maintain that.
Councilmember Yukimura: Unless we require something over and beyond
what plans they submit, or we is say, "This does not work."
Mr. Trask: Actually, the language is pretty clear. It is
any and all actions.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
COUNCIL MEETING 66 MARCH 14, 2018
Mr. Trask: And that is just because we do best we can
with what we have, relying upon them.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. I like that and I think what I hear is
basically, an argument for us not putting that in.
Mr. Trask: Well, we are just trying to clearly present the
issues, and if that is what it seems to you, then...
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. I am struggling for a policy position with
respect to this since you have put it before us, with respect to this provision about
attorneys' fees. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: Lyle, I just want to get clarity on this. This is
not our first rodeo in dealing with this type of situation, and we are trying to correct
the mistakes. So, you feel that this is going to help us to improve the mistakes of the
past.
Mr. Tabata: Yes.
Councilmember Kagawa: In dealing with these complex issues.
Mr. Tabata: Right.
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: For me, based on the conversation that we
had, I am not willing to approve it with that language in there. I understand our
intent to kind of do a Detention Basin Agreement to clearly establish who is
responsible for the detention basin. My question is, in development stage of this
project, do we look at their Covenants, Conditions, and Restrictions (CC&Rs) or
Association documents on the front-end prior to approving their plans? Then, they
will have it in their CC&Rs that the common areas or detention basin and the
Association is responsible for the detention basin, then we may not necessarily need
this type of agreement. I am just throwing it out there. What is the best way to
approach it so that we do not have a ton of agreements out there? Clearly, if it is an
Association, then the detention basin should be located somewhere in their
documents saying that this is the responsibility of the Association as a common area
and they have to put so much money towards it. Then, it is clear. If they come to us
and say it is not our responsibility, it is in their CC&Rs already. I do not know. Of
course I would leave it up to you folks as to what is the best approach. I do not know
if it is a requirement to have them submit their CC&Rs prior to approval and then
we check if the detention basin in there. If it is not, then I can see the need for a
Detention Basin Agreement just clearly stating it is their responsibility. I will leave
it up to you folks on what the best approach is.
COUNCIL MEETING 67 MARCH 14, 2018
Mr. Trask: That is what we are trying to identify. This
specific development, again, is a couple decades old. The project development
ordinance, I think, has been amended twice since the original ones. So, I think three
are three (3) currently that you would have to read to understand it. But again,
briefly referencing State law, I think we are finding that if you create a subdivision
or a Condominium Property Regime (CPR) and AOAO for that and they are allowed
to dissolve, I think that is a problem. Maybe State law should be amended to provide
so that they cannot be dissolved or if they are dissolved, you have a certain amount
of time or there is some other action taken because in some circumstances, the State
from their perspective, does not see the problems that we deal with from ours. So try
to bring everyone together to figure out what works best, ultimately, for the people
in the development because they are the ones who suffer. That may be needed.
Council Chair Rapozo: Go ahead.
Councilmember Kawakami: In a real-world situation, which is happening,
there is a subdivision in Kapahi that, I believe, I brought to your attention to. There
is a detention basin and there are people that live in the area that are saying that the
lack of maintenance for this detention basin is a public health and safety issue
because there are mosquitoes and all these other things that is happening. When you
look back at what subdivision approvals, there was CC&Rs and Association that was
dissolved, is that what we are talking about?
Mr. Tabata: Yes.
Councilmember Kawakami: In that case, how do we then decide? We are
not talking roads-in-limbo, but this is detention basins in limbo. Does this measure
help clarify moving forward, our ability to go after whatever dissolved AOAO or
Association that just disappeared off the face of the Earth, because that is a battle,
right?
Mr. Tabata: Yes.
Councilmember Kawakami: There was an agreement, subdivision
approval that the AOAO or CC&Rs were going to clearly identify that the
maintenance of the detention basin is a responsibility of people that bought into the
subdivision. Then now after all these years, and I do not know if it was created back
when things were a little more lax as far as language goes, but this is a real world
situation. Does this address that type of situation moving forward?
Mr. Tabata: Yes, this is a result of this exact case.
Mr. Trask: Again, within the restrictions of State law, it
clearly provides that they do the maintenance. But if there is a problem, we can go
in and clean it, but we lien as allowed by State law, and that is really the recourse
without further ability at State level to do more.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura.
COUNCIL MEETING 68 MARCH 14, 2018
Councilmember Yukimura: I think a bond is an appropriate requirement.
As you were saying, Mauna Kea, if they fail to do whatever needed to be done to
maintain the detention basin in a safe way, the County will invoke the bond and then
use the money to do what needs to be done and then lien the properties...
Mr. Trask: I am sorry. I think there are both options in
there. You have to post the bond, but we can also lien. We try to do as much
protections as we can.
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, but all the lien does is it entitles you to
money.
Mr. Trask: Yes. It is not the easiest thing to collect.
Councilmember Yukimura: So, it does not give you the action necessarily,
that you need.
Mr. Trask: Yes. We have the ability to get the money, but
if there is no money in that account, yes. So the bond is...
Councilmember Yukimura: If the AOAO has dissolved, from then on, the
County has to...
Mr. Trask: Like you said, too, the tickler system, using
technology to increase our efficiency and ability to track these things, those are all
necessary.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. But the more development we have, the
more percentage we might have to—well, hopefully not. Okay. Thank you. I
appreciate the problem-solving that is being done at the administrative level.
Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else? If not, thank you very much. I
will call meeting back to order.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded
as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any further discussion?
Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: I will not be supporting this. I think by voting
"no" on it, we still give the Department of Public Works the opportunity to get this
agreement done, but not have language in here regarding attorneys' fees and
indemnification language that we are not comfortable with. I do think they will still
be able to get this agreement done without those parts in it. I am not saying a "no"
vote is to say let us not do this agreement. It is just do not have those things in it.
That is where my vote is going on this.
Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else?
COUNCIL MEETING 69 MARCH 14, 2018
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. I want to thank Councilmember
Kaneshiro for raising the issue, and the Department of Public Works addressing the
problem that is at the source of this agenda item. I, too, will not be voting to approve
it because if the liability is put squarely on the developer and the subsequent owners,
this would not be a good provision to agree to because they have the liability anyway.
We are kind of changing things or changing the score or the balance by approving
this attorneys' fees provision. I will be voting against approval.
Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else? If not, the motion is to approve,
roll call.
The motion to approve C 2018-61 was then put, and failed by the following
vote:
FOR APPROVAL: None TOTAL— 0,
AGAINST APPROVAL: Brun, Chock, Kagawa, Kaneshiro,
Kawakami, Yukimura, Rapozo TOTAL— 7,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Motion fails.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Next item, please.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: Should we move to receive?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: You could.
Council Chair Rapozo: It was just a Communication, so it just fails.
C 2018-62 Communication(02/14/2018)from Councilmember Yukimura and
Councilmember Kawakami, transmitting for Council consideration, A Bill For An
Ordinance Amending Chapter 19 And Establishing A New Article 26, Chapter 22,
Kaua`i County Code 1987, As Amended, Relating To Whips And Weapons On County
Property: Councilmember Kagawa moved to receive C 2018-62 for the record,
seconded by Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion or public testimony?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, Council Chair Rapozo. This item is on
the agenda further down as the Bill itself, but we do have the Police Department and
we had the Prosecuting Attorney. Is he here? In order to save their time so they do
COUNCIL MEETING 70 MARCH 14, 2018
not have to wait for the Bill, I would like to have them come up now. They have been
part of the drafting efforts.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay.
Councilmember Yukimura: I also want to acknowledge that we are going
to be having a public hearing on this matter, so there will be a lot of time for input.
But if we could have them come up and just to get their positions on the Bill.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: I would ask that that we consider just putting
all of that detailed discussion in Committee after the public hearing. The reason why
I say that is we are approaching our 12:30 p.m. lunch break, we have a gentleman
from the Kilauea Community Association that has been waiting for a very long time
as well, we have other members of the Administration waiting on Bills and whatnot,
and I do not feel it is a rush to get all of the detailed discussion on the Bill. We are
going to discuss this Bill many more times. I would just ask that we be considerate
of those that have shown up for more important items that are not going to be
discussed many more times. Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Council Chair Rapozo, it is not my intention
to have a detailed discussion. I just wanted to get the positions of the police and the
Prosecuting Attorney out on the floor.
Councilmember Kagawa: I would ask that we discuss it after we take
up more important issues. Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo.
Council Chair Rapozo: I will allow a brief overview just so the people
will understand what is going on before the public hearing. But I would agree that
should be limited to just that and not a debate on the issue.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Go ahead. I will suspend the rules for the
benefit of the public that would want to give public testimony at the public hearing,
if you frame it that way and not discuss the merits.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you.
Councilmember Kagawa: The point I was making is that we can do it
after 1:30 p.m., after the public hearings. We have important things that I do not
want to hold up and do not want to rush through. We have the Kilauea Agricultural
Park and they were waiting a long time. To me, it would make more sense to take up
those items first and we can take the non-detailed discussion on this Bill after lunch.
COUNCIL MEETING 71 MARCH 14, 2018
Council Chair Rapozo: I misunderstood. So, we can do that. If we
can get the issues that involved the general public so they do not have to come back
after lunch, I can support that. Councilmember Yukimura, I do not think you have a
problem with that, right?
Councilmember Yukimura: Pardon me.
Council Chair Rapozo: Taking care of the items so that the public
does not have to come back after lunch. Councilmember Kagawa clarified his
statement saying that...
Councilmember Yukimura: I have almost a "yes" or"no" question for both
the police and Prosecuting Attorney. It should not take more than three (3) minutes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Let us do it. Three (3) minutes. Set
the clock. Come up. Let us go. The rules are suspended, three (3) minutes.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Councilmember Brun: Yes, just same question. We should limit it to
three (3) minute because this morning's two (2) items took us four (4) hours and we
got nothing done.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes. It is now down to two (2) minutes and
forty-two (42) seconds. Can you folks identify yourselves real quick?
JUSTIN F. KOLLAR, Prosecuting Attorney: Good morning. For the
record, Justin Kollar, Prosecuting Attorney.
ELLIOTT K. KE, Kaua`i Police Department, Captain: Good morning,
Elliott Key with the Kaua`i Police Department.
Council Chair Rapozo: Go ahead, Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you, gentlemen. You have been part of
the discussion on the drafting of the Bill, and I just wanted to get the positions of our
respective Departments on the Bill from you.
Mr. Kollar: I am fine with it.
Councilmember Yukimura: Is it enforceable?
Mr. Kollar: I have a couple of stylistic things that I will
contact you folks about later.
Councilmember Yukimura: That will be fine.
Mr. Ke: One thing that we had a question about was
whether it was considered to be make it broader and not just focus it generally on
COUNCIL MEETING 72 MARCH 14, 2018
County facilities like areas open to the public. That is the only question that we really
had about the Bill itself.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
Council Chair Rapozo: To expand from County property to areas that
are open to the public?
Mr. Ke: Yes, sir.
Council Chair Rapozo: Which would be like a shopping center?
Mr. Ke: Yes, sir.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. I like that.
Councilmember Yukimura: I think we have a provision about public
places, but we can discuss that in Committee.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions for these
gentlemen before we kick them out? Thank you very much.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: I will call the meeting back to order.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded
as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you.
Councilmember Yukimura: Is the motion to receive?
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes. This is to receive. This is just the
Communication.
Councilmember Yukimura: Right.
The motion to receive C 2018-62 for the record was then put, and unanimously
carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. We can have more detailed
discussion when with get to the Bill.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you.
COUNCIL MEETING 73 MARCH 14, 2018
Council Chair Rapozo: Next item.
C 2018-64 Communication (02/21/2018) from the Director of Economic
Development, requesting Council approval to apply for, receive, and expend funds in
the amount of $236,000.00, and to indemnify the State of Hawai`i Department of
Agriculture (HDOA), for the survey of irrigation pipeline easements, engineering and
design, irrigation supplies, and installation of the irrigation system pipeline for the
Kilauea Community Agriculture Center: Councilmember Brun moved to approve
C 2018-64, seconded by Councilmember Kawakami.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there any discussion?
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Do we need them up?
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes, please.
Council Chair Rapozo: With that, I will suspend the rules.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Council Chair Rapozo: We are going to go to 12:30 p.m. because we
have a 1:30 p.m. public hearing today, or a couple of public hearings. I want to see if
we can try to get this done. Go ahead, Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you. Go ahead.
GEORGE K. COSTA, Director of Economic Development: Aloha
Council Chair Rapozo and Honorable Councilmembers. For the record, George Costa,
Director for the Office of Economic Development.
YOSHITO L'HOTE: Yoshito L'Hote. I am currently the Executive
Director for `Aina Ho`okupu o Kilauea.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you. George or Yosh, can you just
explain for the public, the basic request because we hear that the money is going to
come in chunks?
Mr. Costa: Right. Just really quickly, background, I
think most of you know the project has been long coming. In 2015, we signed a
Stewardship Agreement with Aina Ho`okupu o Kilauea, who has been developing and
managing the project. Part of their responsibilities is also fundraising. I will let
Mr. L'Hote talk about how he was able to secure these funds.
Mr. L'Hote: Basically, as a partner with the County, we
are bringing the infrastructure to the site so we can actually do agriculture there.
One of the major components of farming is water. In the original master plan, the
projections were three million two hundred thousand dollars ($3,200,000) to develop
COUNCIL MEETING 74 MARCH 14, 2018
the water system on-site, which included three (3) wells, three (3) retaining tanks,
and a pumping system. We felt that maybe we should look at other alternatives, and
we found one, which is bringing water from the Kahiliwai Reservoir. We have
identified that bringing the water from where it is located now, which is at the mini
golf at Anaina Hou. It will take basically, five hundred thousand dollars ($500,000)
to bring that water all the way to the site on Kilauea Road where we are located. In
that effort, we have asked the ITC Water Management, Inc. to do a budget plan. The
budget plan identified that we would need that five hundred thousand
dollars ($500,000), so we went to our representative, Nadine Nakamura, and she
basically brought Scott Enright and the Department of Agriculture to the table. We
discussed the possibility of having both entities of the help us fund that
infrastructure. The Guaranteed Interest Account (GIA) fund was approved and is in
the process of being released, so we have two hundred fifty thousand
dollars ($250,000) from the Department of Agriculture. So, that is why we have
today, basically asking your permission to apply for that money because the State
feels more ma`a, they are used to giving money to the County rather than individual
entities. That is why the Office of Economic Development will be the receiving person
that will then transfer the funds to`Aina Ho`okupu o Kilauea so that we can get water
on-site. I am amazed that we were able to get that much headway and have the funds
basically in place to provide for the one vital piece of this puzzle. We have been
tireless working on all the other aspects and there are lots of other things to solve,
which I will not get into detail right now. But having water, we now have a project.
We definitely appreciate your support in our request to get those funds. Thank you.
Mr. Costa: If I can just add to that, I have been working
with Chair Enright with the Department of Agriculture and his staff. As Mr. L'Hote
said, the Department of Agriculture is more comfortable having those funds come
through the Office of Economic Development and then we, in turn, grant it to 'Atha
Ho`okupu o Kilauea. That is why we are here today, to ask for approval to apply for,
receive, and expend. Just the other day, I was advised by Mr. Enright that the
commitment of two hundred thirty-six thousand dollars ($236,000) initially, was
supposed to come this fiscal year. What they are going to do is release one hundred
thousand dollars ($100,000) now in this fiscal year, what is remaining of it, and as
Fiscal Year 2019 starts, July 1st, the other one hundred thirty-six thousand
dollars ($136,000) will be available and go through the same process. Thank you.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you. As we know, the pipeline is
extremely important and the water rights are also important. Can you tell us what
the status is on securing the water rights?
Mr. L'Hote: Basically, Joan Porter is slowly being less
involved, I guess, with that property at Wai Koa, as well as the nonprofit Anaina Hou.
The water rights is Porter Irrigation. They are the ones who hold them. They are
basically an agreement with Anaina Hou, because that is their fire repression system,
and in the same time, they are doing ours. The lawyer is drafting the final wording
for it for us to look at and then basically, be able to sign and enter that agreement.
We are literally a few weeks away. They have a lot of business that they had to deal
with and their lawyers have been busy. But this has been ongoing on my to-do list
and I keep asking Jennifer Lot to make sure it does not fall through the cracks.
COUNCIL MEETING 75 MARCH 14, 2018
Councilmember Yukimura: Do you have attorneys advising you on this for
the water rights agreement?
Mr. L'Hote: Yes. Ian Young and Graham is doing our
easements, so they are involved at that level with all of the things. Then on the side,
the family with Kapua Sproat, that is advising me on how to operate with that. But
she needs to see the agreement in order to be able to comment on it. As soon as we
get it from the lawyer, it will be going through Kapua and probably Ian Young, too.
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, you have a water rights expert in
Kapua, so that is really good because how water is allocated in time of drought is
going to be important.
Mr. L'Hote: That is correct.
Councilmember Yukimura: So, you just want to just make sure those
conditions are covered.
Mr. L'Hote: Yes, that is correct.
Councilmember Yukimura: Right now, we do not have any worries about
having enough water. Okay. Have you gotten more specifics in terms of how many
farmers you are going to have, how you select the farmers, and a sustainable business
plan for the sustenance of that operation?
Mr. L'Hote: We have developed a business plan, which I
think all of you folks have received the last time we were here. It is still very rough
and I cannot answer all of those questions right now. I am really gearing up, and I
think by the end of the year, we will have all of those documents, the lease structure,
and everything else that you just talked about figured out.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
Mr. L'Hote: Which will coincide with the water coming
on-site, which the main issue was to get water, and once we have the water and the
program is to then focus on making sure the lease agreement is in place, and then get
everybody on the land as soon as we can.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Very good. I see you have been
working really hard. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions for the
gentlemen? If not, thank you very much. Is there anyone wishing to testify on this?
JEROME FREITAS: Good morning, Council Chair Rapozo and
Vice Chair Kagawa. The one they were talking about was about the Kilauea Farm,
right? How many years have they been doing that? About twenty (20) years? I think
it is best that we have to. I am for that. Whatever money they need to do the job, do
it because it has been too long already. I am for that, whatever the money they want
COUNCIL MEETING 76 MARCH 14, 2018
to receive. I think it is a good deal. I hope they continue doing that. Thank you very
much. Mahalo.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much. Anyone else? Seeing
none, I will call the meet back to order.
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any further discussion?
Councilmember Kagawa and then Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Kagawa: I just want to thank George and especially,
Yoshito. To say that he has been working hard is an understatement. He has
working tirelessly. When the project was before us for final approval to get going, the
question came up: what about water? What about water? He said he knows that is
a concern. How is it truly going to be sustainable and successful without trying to
use free water instead of water that you have to pay for from the Water Department,
which is outrageous? To see the steps that you are making towards gaining that is
truly a time of celebration. You have come so far and you still have obstacles to go.
But I just want to thank you for all of the work that you have done. I am excited for
the future. The millennials are starting to get excited about how to grow their own
food and how to do it. Kapa'a High School has a program. Your son is in that
program. It is building. It was dead. The agriculture program at Kapa'a High School
was dead. Brandon Fujita, Kylie Hashizaki, the students, and Mr. Hamada have
really taken an interest of the millennials and they are going to try and start a new
generation that can grow more food. This agricultural park is going to be a valuable
asset and we all need to do as much as it takes to make this work, because this is
going to be a great opportunity to push that program.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Chock and then
Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. I just
wanted to also thank Yosh and George for staying the course. I know it has been
difficult and I know sometimes, especially when you come here, the questions come
flying out. It is just kind of a give and take. I am really happy to see you stepping
up and helping this. It took thirty (30) years. You have been able to accomplish much
more in just four (4) to five (5) years to get us to that point or maybe less than,
particularly with the water. We had predicted much more to get the water going.
There is a lot more work to be done obviously, and my hope is that the faith continues,
that the model is created. This is just one incubator project that we can see duplicated
and maybe government does not have to be that involved in the future, but that the
community people and the communities will need it the future. Thank you very
much.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kaneshiro.
COUNCIL MEETING 77 MARCH 14, 2018
Councilmember Kaneshiro: We can say we made our attention clear this
morning on how unhappy we were with State on a certain bill, but I think it would
be a good opportunity to thank the State in this case, because the Hawaii Department
of Agriculture is actually giving the farm two hundred thirty-six thousand
dollars ($236,000) to do the irrigation and water infrastructure. Not all of our
decisions are great, everyone does not support all of our decisions, but I think the
State deserves credit on this one for giving the farm this money and showing that
they support it. I also want to see that project move forward. Thank you, again, for
working hard with everyone. I think it is a good show to show how the County, public,
and the State can all work together to try and get a project through.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kawakami.
Councilmember Kawakami: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. I would
like to thank Yosh, too. I know he has been working tirelessly, in fact, this is the
second GIA go around for them. I was there for the first GIA when we appropriated
some funds. At the time, it was Kilauea Agricultural Park. You folks are pretty
clever going in with a different name to get Round 2. I give you that much because I
will tell you that it is rare to get two (2) GIA appropriations. It is extremely rare. We
want to thank Representative Nakamura, too, and of course, yes, the Department of
Agriculture. Every single session, they invest in agriculture. Government will
always have to invest in agriculture infrastructure. That is just a given. It is
something that is going to need to be supported if we are true to our word about
self-sustainability. Thank you very much.
Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else? Councilmember Brun.
Councilmember Brun: Thank you, Yosh, for everything. I think I
went out there about six (6) months ago. I was impressed with what you folks have
been doing. I would probably be a lot more impressed now. When I went out there,
you had a lot of volunteers. Councilmember Kagawa brought up the interest. We
went to Kapa'a High School about a week ago and I was talking to the Principal. They
have over one hundred (100) kids signed up for agricultural classes and the next
semester is up over two hundred (200). So, there are a lot of kids. We talked to him
about working with them. We had some of the students come to our site and they
were really interested. It is a good thing what you are doing and also what they are
doing at Kapa'a High School. Good job, Yosh. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any other discussion?
Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: I will get on my own soapbox, too. This is a
clear case where people need to be careful what they ask for because there is a big
push to regulate or stop the way our old irrigation and whatnot goes. This shows that
once it stops, to get it back up, it costs a lot of money. We can go through the numbers
on how many of it costs because in the past, that irrigation system did go all the way
to the park and at one point, it stopped, was not maintained, land was sold, and I can
tell you the process to get that irrigation system that once served that area back up
and online, is time-consuming, expensive, and very difficult to do. I think the public
COUNCIL MEETING 78 MARCH 14, 2018
needs to be aware that we have to be careful what we ask for when we want to shut
down things, shut down diversion, and shut down that. One day when someone says,
"Hey, water used to come here. I want to farm here now, but the water is not getting
here. What do I do?" I think Yosh would be the first one to stand up and say, "Let
me tell you that it is not that easy and it is not going to be cheap." We just need to
be cognizant of those kinds of things moving forward.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: First, I would like to second what
Councilmember Kaneshiro has said, the value of our existing irrigation system is
really unestimatable because to replace it is impossible, actually. We should not
allow those systems to disappear or go into disrepair. I also want to say that there
has been discussion around this table that young people are not interested in farming
and there are not enough farmers to farm the land, but in fact as both
Councilmembers Kagawa and Brun have said, the interest is growing. It is not just
at Kapa'a High School. I was at the Waimea Alumni Family and Friends event and
they had the farm agricultural program from the high school there. They sell out
every week to the teachers for the various micro sprouts that they are doing. Some
of the kids are starting their gardens at home out of the experience that they are
learning in schools. George's intern program are showing the two (2) young women
who work with Valerie Kaneshiro, did the hard work of a pig farm. It shows that
these kids are not only willing to do the hard work, but they are very interested in
farming and creating those opportunities, and protecting our agricultural lands. All
of that is very important for the future. I am hopeful. I am really glad that water
component is being developed for this agricultural park because as we all know,
without water, you cannot have agriculture. I am looking forward to getting the
documentation for a sustainable plan for agriculture on that property. That is still
something we need to see and make sure that it works. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. With that, thank you all. We are
done. Sorry, we are unfortunately back and reconvened. I think you have an idea of
where this vote is going to go. With that, the motion is to approve.
The motion to approve C 2018-64 was then put, and unanimously carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. We have five (5) more
minutes. Does anyone have a problem if we take the two (2) Prosecutor's items, the
recurring grants? I would like to get them out of here as well, if there is no objection.
Hold on, Jade. I do not want to call them and we have to have them come. If we can
get it done, I want to get them out. Okay. Go ahead.
There being no objections, C 2018-66 was taken out of order.
C 2018-66 Communication (02/23/2018) from the Prosecuting Attorney,
requesting Council approval to apply for, receive, and expend Federal Highway
Safety funds from the State of Hawai`i Department of Transportation (DOT), in the
amount of $164,036.00, to be used toward continued funding of one (1) Full-Time
COUNCIL MEETING 79 MARCH 14, 2018
Equivalent (FTE) Special Prosecuting Attorney, travel, and training: Councilmember
Kagawa moved to approve C 2018-66, seconded by Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Again, this is a recurring grant.
There is public testimony. I will suspend the rules.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
Ms. Parker: Alice Parker, for the record. No. Do not give
them the money. We need roads. I think it is a good idea, but get the funds from
some other place. Those of us who ride the bus are in agony because it is so bumpy.
I have several neighbors, three (3) of them, who will not ride the bus because it is too
painful on these roads. Please get the funds from some other source. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Anyone else? If not, I will call the
meeting back to order.
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: For Alice Parker, these are funds dedicated
for this use only. So this would not be able to be used for roads. This is to give the
Prosecutors an extra position to help with their Office. With that, is there any other
discussion? Seeing none, the motion is to approve.
The motion to approve C 2018-66 was then put, and unanimously carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. There is one (1) more. I
believe it is another recurring grant, which is C 2018-70.
There being no objections, C 2018-70 was taken out of order.
C 2018-70 Communication (03/01/2018) from the Prosecuting Attorney,
requesting Council approval to apply for, receive, and expend State funds in the
amount of$273,760.00, and approval to indemnify the State of Hawai`i, Department
of the Attorney General, for the Kaua`i Victims of Crime Act (VOCA) Expansion
Project 16-VA-3 for the period of July 1, 2018 through June 30, 2019: Councilmember
Kagawa moved to approve C 2018-70, seconded by Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Again, this is another recurring
grant. If there are no problems, is there any public testimony?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: The motion is to approve.
COUNCIL MEETING 80 MARCH 14, 2018
The motion to approve C 2018-70 was then put, and unanimously carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Council Chair Rapozo, did you want it take
C 2018-65?
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, please.
C 2018-65 Communication (02/21/2018) from the Director of Economic
Development, requesting Council approval to apply for, receive, and expend funds in
the amount of $25,000.00, and to indemnify the State Department of Labor and
Industrial Relations (DLIR), to work with the Department of Education (DOE) —
Natural Resources Pathway and Future Farmers of America (FFA) programs at
Kaua`i, Kapa`a, and Waimea High Schools in providing summer internship programs
for students to work on Kaua`i farms, ranches, and agriculture-related businesses:
Councilmember Kagawa moved to approve C 2018-65, seconded by Councilmember
Yukimura.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion or public testimony?
Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: I just want to thank George for this program.
Any time we are working with our public high schools and the Future Farmers of
America (FFA), getting them summer jobs or what have you and fostering those
relationships, I am in support. We talk about supporting our students after they
graduate, and this is just a simple way. We have green all around us and why not
grow food that we can eat, teach them the right way to do it, and have get the
experiences that they need in order to search for a career in that area? I think the
taxpayers would definitely support that kind of use. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else? If not, is there any public
testimony?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Seeing none, the motion is to approve.
The motion to approve C 2018-65 was then put, and unanimously carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. With that, it is 12:30 p.m. We
will taking a one-hour recess for lunch. We will be back at 1:30 p.m. for the public
hearings.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 12:29 p.m.
COUNCIL MEETING 81 MARCH 14, 2018
The meeting reconvened at 1:33 p.m., and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: The meeting is called back to order. Next
item, please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Chair, this brings us back to page 3,
C 2018-67.
C 2018-67 Communication (02/23/2018) from the Housing Director,
requesting Council approval to expend $1,450,000.00 from the Hawai`i Housing
Finance and Development Corporation (HHFDC) due to reallocation of 2016 Housing
Trust Fund (HTF) moneys. The HTF funds have been dedicated to the Koa`e
Workforce Housing Development project, Koa`e Workforce Housing, L.P., and Mark
Development, Inc. The additional funds will provide an additional six (6) units, for a
total of eleven (11) units, for extremely low-income families who are at or below thirty
percent (30%) of the Kauai Median Income (KMI). Indemnification of HHFDC is also
requested: Councilmember Kaneshiro moved to approve as amended to one million
four hundred twenty-five thousand dollars ($1,425,000.00), seconded by
Councilmember Chock.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there any discussion?
Councilmember Yukimura: Is the Housing Agency here?
Council Chair Rapozo: No, I do not see the Housing Agency. Was the
Housing Agency coming over? Does anybody know? Can we move on to the next one
and try to get the Housing Agency here. If not, we will refer this to the Committee
Meeting next week.
C 2018-68 Communication (02/27/2018) from Council Chair Rapozo,
transmitting for Council consideration, a proposal to establish an Affordable Housing
Trust Fund for the limited purpose of providing affordable housing to low and
moderate income households: Councilmember Kaneshiro moved to receive C 2018-68
for the record, seconded by Councilmember Brun.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion or public testimony?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: I guess we could wait until the Bill comes up.
I just wanted to know what the purpose was.
Council Chair Rapozo: To establish an Affordable Housing Trust
Fund to create affordable housing on Kauai.
COUNCIL MEETING 82 MARCH 14, 2018
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, we have a Housing Development Fund.
Council Chair Rapozo: But it is not specific to affordable housing.
Councilmember Yukimura: It is not?
Council Chair Rapozo: No, it is not for housing development,
administrative costs.
Councilmember Yukimura: My understanding is that it was, but it is good
that we are going to have the Housing Director come. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: The motion is to recieve.
The motion to receive C 2018-68 for the record, was then put, and unanimously
carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item, please.
C 2018-69 Communication (02/27/2018) from Councilmember Kawakami
and Council Vice Chair Kagawa, transmitting for Council consideration, a proposal
relating to revocable permits for vending in County rights-of-way: Councilmember
Chock moved to receive C 2018-69 for the record, seconded by Councilmember
Kaneshiro.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there any discussion or public
testimony?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Can we discuss it when the Bill comes up?
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
The motion to receive C 2018-69 for the record was then put, and unanimously
carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item, please.
C 2018-71 Communication (03/05/2018) from Councilmember Kaneshiro,
transmitting for Council consideration, a Proposed Draft Emergency Bill to repeal
Emergency Ordinance No. B-2018-835 and amend Ordinance No. B-2017-822, as
COUNCIL MEETING 83 MARCH 14, 2018
amended, relating to the Capital Budget for the Fiscal Year July 1, 2017 through
June 30, 2018, by revising the amounts estimated in the Highway Fund-CIP. This
Emergency Ordinance is at the request of the Administration and corrects the
Account Number identified in the Bill, which should have been 409-0000-250.02-00,
instead of 408-0000-250.01-00: Councilmember Kagawa moved to receive C 2018-71
for the record, seconded by Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there any discussion or public
testimony?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
The motion to receive C 2018-71 for the record was then put, and unanimously
carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item, please. Let us do
the Claims and go right down.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Okay.
CLAIMS:
C 2018-73 Communication (02/21/2018) from the County Clerk,
transmitting a claim filed against the County of Kaua`i by Lihu`e Missionary Church,
for damages to their property, pursuant to Section 23.06, Charter of the County of
Kauai.
C 2018-74 Communication (03/05/2018) from the County Clerk,
transmitting a claim filed against the County of Kaua`i by Anthony Matsumura, for
damage to his home, pursuant to Section 23.06, Charter of the County of Kauai.
C 2018-75 Communication (03/05/2018) from the County Clerk,
transmitting a claim filed against the County of Kauai by Tracey Aceret, for damage
to her vehicle, pursuant to Section 23.06, Charter of the County of Kauai.
C 2018-76 Communication (03/05/2018) from the County Clerk,
transmitting a claim filed against the County of Kaua`i by Gregory Schrepfer, for
damage to his bike, pursuant to Section 23.06, Charter of the County of Kauai.
Councilmember Kagawa moved to refer C 2018-73, C 2018-74, C 2018-75, and
C 2018-76 to the Office of the County Attorney for disposition and/or report
back to the Council, seconded by Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there any discussion or public
testimony?
COUNCIL MEETING 84 MARCH 14, 2018
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: I just wanted to mention one that I am
familiar with, regarding when we constructed the walking path or the bike path near
the Mahelona Medical Center area, and some residents there suffered extreme
damage due to dust that was not prevented. When we have quarrels or issues
between developers or neighbors that are building, the County is called upon to make
sure that dust mitigation and what have you is taken. I would say that when we have
projects that the County does, I would hope we would take a lead and make sure that
we show the public how it should be done. When you are the referee and you do not
follow the rules, it does not look too good. I would hope that in the future, we would
be a little bit more of a leader in those types of areas and make sure that we show the
public how it should be done so that when we are the referee, we can be trusted with
the direction and answers that we are giving among neighborly quarrels. Thank you,
Council Chair Rapozo.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there any other discussion?
Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: I concur with what you say, Council Vice
Chair Kagawa. So is it regarding one of the claims here?
Councilmember Kagawa: C 2018-74.
Councilmember Yukimura: I see. Okay. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any other discussion?
The motion to refer C 2018-73, C 2018-74, C 2018-75, and C 2018-76 to the
Office of the County Attorney for disposition and/or report back to the Council
was then put, and unanimously carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: Now we can go back to C 2018-67.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: C 2018-67. Did you want it read again?
Council Chair Rapozo: No. I will suspend the rules. Councilmember
Yukimura had some questions.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
Councilmember Yukimura: Do you want to state your name?
COUNCIL MEETING 85 MARCH 14, 2018
STEVE FRANCO, Housing Development Coordinator: Yes. Steve Franco,
Housing Agency.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you for being here, Steve.
Congratulations—I understand the reallocation is because we are ready to go and
some of the other Counties are not.
Mr. Franco: That is correct.
Councilmember Yukimura: Kudos and congratulations to the Housing
Agency. This means that we are going to have an additional six (6) units of the one
hundred thirty-four (134) units. Will there be an addition to the one hundred
thirty-four (134), or of the one hundred thirty-four (134), more will be now for very
low-income?
Mr. Franco: Correct. There will not be any more
additional new units, but units that are identified under the Housing Trust Fund will
increase from five (5) to eleven (11). With the additional funds, there will be a
requirement to have a total of eleven (11) units designated for that particular income
group.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you for the explanation. I appreciate
it.
Mr. Franco: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions?
Councilmember Yukimura: Not on this item.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Thank you. Is there anyone else
wishing to testify? Seeing none, I will call the meeting back to order.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Further discussion? The motion is to approve.
The motion to approve C 2018-67 approve as amended to one million four
hundred twenty-five thousand dollars ($1,425,000.00) was then put, and
unanimously carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item, please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Council Chair Rapozo, the next item are
Committee Reports.
COMMITTEE REPORTS:
COUNCIL MEETING 86 MARCH 14, 2018
PUBLIC WORKS / PARKS & RECREATION COMMITTEE:
A report (No. CR-PWPR 2018-04) submitted by the Public Works / Parks &
Recreation Committee, recommending that the following be Received for the Record:
"PWPR 2018-04 Communication (01/26/2018) from Committee Chair
Kagawa, requesting the presence of the State of Hawai`i Department of
Transportation Highways Division Deputy Director Edwin H. Sniffen and
Kaua`i District Engineer Larry Dill, P.E., to provide a briefing on the State's
plans and options to address the traffic needs on both the east and west sides
of Kaua`i,"
Councilmember Brun moved for approval of the report, seconded by
Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there any discussion or public
testimony?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Councilmember Yukimura: Council Chair Rapozo, I have some discussion
please.
Council Chair Rapozo: Go ahead. I am sorry. Is it on the minutes?
Councilmember Yukimura: On the Committee Report.
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. I would like to pass out a copy of the
response that I received from the Office of Information Practices (OIP). It was about
parliamentary procedure and a question about whether my question regarding the
Lima Ola Housing Development was relevant to the subject of west side traffic, and
we have received a response from OIP saying that it was. I just wanted to circle back
and again just emphasize how important it is to allow robust discussion. If there is
any connection at all, the matter should be relevant and we should err on the side of
allowing information and this is confirmation that no law was violated by my
question. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. With that, the motion is to approve
CR-PWPR 2018-04.
The motion for approval of the report was then put, and unanimously carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item, please.
COUNCIL MEETING 87 MARCH 14, 2018
PLANNING COMMITTEE:
A report (No. CR-PL 2018-01) submitted by the Planning Committee,
recommending that the following be Approved as Amended on second and final
reading:
"Bill No. 2686 — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE TO AMEND THE
KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED, CHAPTER 8, RELATING TO
THE COMPREHENSIVE ZONING ORDINANCE (Additional Rental Unit —
Planning Commission Recommendation),"
A report (No. CR-PL 2018-02) submitted by the Planning Committee,
recommending that the following be Received for the Record:
"Bill No. 2627, Draft 3 — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE TO AMEND
CHAPTER 10, KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987zAS AMENDED, BY ADDING
A NEW ARTICLE 5B, RELATING TO THE LIHUE PLANNING DISTRICT
(County of Kauai, Applicant),"
Councilmember Kaneshiro moved for approval of the reports, seconded by
Councilmember Brun.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion or public testimony?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
The motion for approval of the reports was then put, and unanimously carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item, please.
RESOLUTIONS:
Resolution No. 2018-03 — RESOLUTION PROPOSING A CHARTER
AMENDMENT RELATING TO TERM LIMITS FOR COUNCILMEMBERS:
Councilmember Kagawa moved for adoption of Resolution No. 2018-03, seconded by
Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion or public testimony?
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Council Chair Rapozo, we do have one (1)
registered speaker.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Jerome Freitas.
COUNCIL MEETING 88 MARCH 14, 2018
Council Chair Rapozo: Mr. Freitas. I will suspend the rules.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
Mr. Freitas: Council Chair Rapozo, Vice Chair Kagawa,
Members of the Council, and Staff. What Resolution is this?
Council Chair Rapozo: It is a resolution for a Charter Amendment for
term limits.
Mr. Freitas: Okay. I think about a month ago, I came here
and the term limits right now is...two (2) four-year terms would be eight (8) years,
right? Or you could do two (2) four-year terms, that would be eight (8) years; four (4)
years and four (4) years. Then the four (4) years you do not get in, you have to wait
for another four (4) years to get back. That is the difference right there. I think it is
the best interest for the public. So the person can stay there for years and years
without getting them out and other people maybe do not have chance, so I think as
liberal as it is, either the two (2) four-year terms or...then just two (2) four-year terms
and right now is the one for the Council, right? Two (2) four-year terms is eight (8)
years, right?
Council Chair Rapozo: Four (4) two-year terms.
Mr. Freitas: Okay. I am not against whoever proposed
this...this is just my opinion. That is why we come up here and voice our opinion and
how we feel. That is it. I just wanted to say thank you very much for giving me the
opportunity to do what I have to do. Thank you very much. Mahalo.
Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else wishing to testify? Seeing none,
I will call the meeting back to order.
There being no further testimony, the meeting was called back to order, and
proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you. I just wanted to show you part of
why I proposed removal of the term limits. We are going to look at the November
2006 General Election results. Scott, can you put up the Councilmembers' results?
What it will show is if you look at the top seven (7), there are only two (2) of you that
have reached the term limits. Councilmember Yukimura was the top vote-getter,
twelve thousand one hundred forty-seven (12,147) and Council Chair Rapozo with
nine thousand six hundred eight (9,608). Shaylene Iseri-Carvalho ended up running
for Prosecutor and her seat became open. I believe Tim Bynum got voted out in 2014.
Jay Furfaro got voted out in 2014 as well. Kaipo Asing got voted out in a subsequent
year after 2006. Ron Kouchi is now Senate President. He also got voted out in an
election shortly after this election in 2006. My point is that if the term limit was
voted to get Councilmembers to be changed...yes, the term limits worked for two (2)
of the Councilmembers in this current term, but for the other five (5), those seats all
COUNCIL MEETING 89 MARCH 14, 2018
became open. Do we need term limits to give new people the chance? I think the
facts show that we do not need term limits. The people are free of choosing who they
want and who they want to get out when their time comes. I am no different. I have
won three (3) elections and my results were...I think I was fifth, then second, and the
last one, I was fourth. I think I am dropping and my time may come this next election.
I have not filed yet. Every two (2) years, this is a very stressful job. It may seem in
the public like an easy snap, sixty thousand dollar ($60,000)job that any "Tom, Dick,
and Harry" can do, but the fact is that it is not. It is a very difficult job. You take a
lot of criticism and you need to have very thick skin. You also have to have an ability
to please the majority of the voters when your time comes every August and
November. Is this self-serving for me? I would say, "Of course not," because I do not
know if I am going to win again. Everybody goes in hoping that they win, but nobody
knows the results. If you look at the last three (3) elections, as far as when I got in,
in the year that I got in, there were nine (9) Councilmembers running; myself and
Gary Hooser both beat two (2) incumbents: KipuKai Kuali`i and Dickie Chang. The
following election, as I mentioned before, former Chair Furfaro and Tim Bynum were
voted out and replaced by two (2) new Councilmembers, I believe it was
Councilmember Kaneshiro and K3puKai Kuali`i came back. Then in the last election,
two (2) more incumbents were voted out: Gary Hooser and KipuKai Kuali`i, and
incoming were Councilmember Brun and Councilmember Kawakami. As you can see,
this is not a safe seat; this is a hot seat. You cannot predict the outcome of any
election. First of all, I commend Council Chair Rapozo and Councilmember Yukimura
for their longevity. I do not view them as career politicians; I view them as public
servants who have put their lives and their families on the line for the betterment of
Kauai. I do not condemn long-serving politicians. Your name is out there and if you
win, you win. Great. If you lose, you have to rethink your policies and your stance.
Perhaps, some may feel that this is not for them. Anyway, I think this is a tough job
and I think we have a bright list of candidates that have stepped up. Again, I think
all of these seats are hot. We will see how the votes fall. I want to thank the public
for their testimony. I do not only gather testimony through E-mails or the newspaper.
My way of getting input is going out to senior softball games and Kauai
Interscholastic Federation (KIF) baseball games. This term limit issue appears in
the newspaper every week, so of course the public is asking me about it. I have to
clarify why I believe that term limits are not necessary, and in the end, I would say
that one hundred percent (100%) agree with me that our term limits are every two (2)
years. They can vote us out every two (2) years. They do not need an arbitrary
number of eight (8). I realize that Maui, Honolulu, and Hawai`i Island have it—so
what? We do not have to follow them in that. That is not important to follow the
other three (3) Counties in that area. I think this is a democratic process and the top
vote-getter should win, the top seven (7). It has always been that way and if you look
at the facts that I presented, we do not need an arbitrary term limit number. Term
limits occur every election. Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Anyone else? Is there any further
discussion? Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: I just want to say that I will be voting in favor
of this Resolution. We have had this come up before and I think we all received the
same type of E-mails where they call us "selfish, unethical, undemocratic, one
COUNCIL MEETING 90 MARCH 14, 2018
citizen-one vote, will of the voters, and corrupt." We hear a lot of words like that and
I wrote some down from the testimonies that we received. The fact of the matter is
that I think we have probably one of the fairest systems right now between all of the
islands, because we are at-large. You take the top seven (7) vote-getters and the top
seven (7) vote-getters get to get on the Council. To say that we are selfish because we
want this—we are not the ones that is going to get it to be in place. All we are doing
is putting it on the ballot and the people vote on whether they want to get rid of term
limits or not. That is all it is doing. We are not able to say here, "Arryl Kaneshiro
can never get unelected from Council ever again." That would be self-serving and
selfish and if we had all of the power to do that, I would say that is pretty unethical
for me to do that. But in this case, we are basically putting it to the people to vote
again on whether they want term limits or not. In the end, like Councilmember
Kagawa said, the voters are the ones that vote you in or out. I said this the last time
this came up, the only vote I know guaranteed for myself is myself, one (1) vote. I do
not know who else is going to vote and I have never seen anybody win with one (1)
vote for Council or any election. But the fact of the matter is that the only one (1)
vote I know is my own. You look at what serves the community the best and you
think about does it serve the community the best if you have a top vote-getter,
somebody...Council Chair Rapozo and Councilmember Yukimura...they always get
up high. To not get elected just because of a term limit...then you are saying that the
will of the people is not really being answered because if they could run and be the
top vote-getter and we are saying, "No, you are out already," then that is not the will
of the people. You let the will of the people decide what you want. We go to the poll,
everyone campaigns, and the top seven (7) get it. That is what I think is the fairest
and has always been the fairest way to do it. For me, being the new person, with
term limits, I see us losing a lot of institutional knowledge. When I came on two (2)
years ago, it is tough to get caught up on what is going on in the Council and learn
about all of the quirks, who does what and who is responsible for what. I really
appreciated having people like Council Chair Rapozo and Councilmember Yukimura
on the Council that when an issue comes up, they say, "Hey, we dealt with this a
while ago and this is how it happened," and it prevents us from making the same
mistake over and over again. For me, I think that is a big loss. If people are doing
well and they can get the votes then they should be in. We get to keep that
institutional knowledge also. If not, it is tough. There are a lot of things that goes
on at the County, but there is no way that I will know everything that is goes on, but
there is a case where Council Chair Rapozo might know it because they dealt with it
a while back. Councilmember Kawakami has said, "When I was on the Council
before, this is why we did it." I think that is valuable to us also. For me, I am all for
it—let the top vote-getter get in and that is the way it should be. The people vote.
Obviously, based on the results, you see the people do vote people out. There is no
guarantee that anyone is going to get in at any election. If you ask anybody, "Do you
know if you are going to get in this next election," I think most people would say, "I
have no clue." Maybe I made a mistake in a forum and said something that really
turned people off, and maybe I did something else or someone posted something on
Facebook and people just did not like it. You have no clue how someone is going to
vote at the polls on that day. The only person you know again is I know how I am
going to vote, and hopefully I vote for myself. If you are going to run, you better vote
for yourself. That is the only one (1) vote you know. For me, I think it is fair. We
should not have term limits. It would be a big injustice if someone has to term-out,
COUNCIL MEETING 91 MARCH 14, 2018
which is going to happen this next election, when they would be able to get in and
that is who the people would want in. That is just my two cents on it.
Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else? Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: I am going to be voting against this
Resolution. What is good for the President of the United States, the Governor of the
State of Hawai`i, the Mayors of all Counties in Hawaii, and the other County Councils
in Hawaii should be good for the Kaua`i County Council, too. Ironically, just a few
days ago, China moved in the other direction and changed its constitution allowing
the current leader to be President for life, and I do not think that is the right direction.
I think it is healthy to rest after a certain period of service and I also think that an
open-ended political incumbency is not healthy for society. It is true that term limits
could prevent someone with great experience and knowledge from serving even when
they could get reelected; however, in the case of the County Council, the period out of
office is basically only one (1) term and it is actually a one-year hiatus, because with
the two-year term, a person sitting out one election can start running in the second
year of sitting out. Plus, if the person really cares about the issues, he or she can
show up as a citizen and be in the public limelight throughout the two (2) years of
office. Besides resting, a break also can mean new perspectives and it allows new
people to step up to the plate, bringing new ideas, viewpoints, and leadership styles.
Also, the people of Kaua`i voted overwhelmingly thirteen thousand two hundred
sixty-six (13,266) to six thousand one hundred thirty-nine ($6,139) to establish term
limits in 2006. I have not seen anything that justifies changing the law along the
lines of what is being proposed.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Councilmember Brun.
Councilmember Brun: Thank you. I will be supporting this proposal
also. Again, from the last three (3) elections, voters voted for themselves and nobody
termed out. This is the first time that you see two (2) people terming out. Nobody's
job is guaranteed. Like Councilmember Kagawa said, we will have three (3) openings
and the four (4) of us is still not safe and none of us filed anyway. Who knows if any
of the four (4) of us will run again? It is not safe. With this, you will give somebody
with a lot of knowledge..;I know somebody who used to be here and I talked to him a
couple of weeks ago and he said that with the three (3) openings, four (4) people, there
is not too much experience or knowledge on the Council left, so maybe that person
will run again. Again, we are going to knowledge and experience—we are all fresh,
the four (4) of us, but I think this is a good resolution. We will leave it up to the people
and our people will vote on if they want to take out the term limits or not. I will be
supporting this and moving this forward. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else? Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. I voted
against this previously and I will be voting the same way as I did. This is kind of
similar to how I view the Salary Commission process. So philosophically, it sort of
rubs against me where Councilmembers vote on raises and future raises. It is just
on that principle that I move towards on not supporting it. I will acknowledge that
COUNCIL MEETING 92 MARCH 14, 2018
there are some issues that have been brought up already. Those of institutional
knowledge and leadership are certainly issues that need to be addressed. Those are
all real for those leaders who have been around who have the history and knowledge
of the County. For those reasons, I think I would prefer to consider staggered terms
and things of that nature. Some of the suggestions that I think the community has
voiced, such as two (2) four-year terms, I think is something that at least gives people
the ability to not have to run on specific issues and not have the opportunity to have
more work done within the timeframe of eight (8) years. I have not heard any other
support otherwise for it from the public. If I had, I probably would...maybe I need to
talk to different people to hear from them. As I see it, I think if people do want this,
then let them petition it and move forward on it. I do not know where the votes are.
I am assuming that the votes are there this time around and that is why it is here.
With it just being somewhat fresh in our mind, I will not be supporting it at this time.
Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kawakami.
Councilmember Kawakami: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. Earlier,
we had a member from the community in front of us putting himself out there to serve
on the Commission and we asked the fundamental question of how do you go about
getting what the public is thinking? I know exactly how I do that type of homework—
I am out there in the community; many of us are. We show up to community events
it goes more just showing face, we are out there asking questions and feeling the
temperature and putting our fingers on the pulse of the community that does not
come out to these meetings that will not send in testimony, and that is where the
value of being a Councilmember is and participating by being out and inserting
yourselves into different facets of the community. I will be honest with you—the topic
of term limits when I bring it up is really split. There are some people that really
think that term limits are a good thing, that for all of the mentioned reasons of taking
a break or allowing new blood. All of those arguments have come up, but there is also
a segment of the population that says, "Hey, I wish that `so and so' could serve. I
show up and I vote because this particular elected official is on the ballot." So it is
not so clear-cut where the community is, but the one thing that we are here to really
discuss is whether or not we should let the voters of Kauai and Ni`ihau revisit this
and vote on it. When I bring it up in that aspect, like, "Would you appreciate voting
on this measure?" Most people say, "Absolutely." Whether they are for it or against
it, the one overwhelming response I have had when I frame the question, "Would you
appreciate having the opportunity to vote on this measure?" Not too many people
have told me, "No, I do not want to vote on it." For that reason, I am going to support
moving this forward. There are very different ways that we can get charter
amendments proposed and this is one vehicle that has come up in front of us. I think
sometimes we forget what the measure is really about. We are only seven (7). We
are not here to decide whether term limits are right or wrong, but we are here to
determine whether the voters should have a voice in this. With that being said, I am
going support moving this forward. As far as the institutional knowledge, yes, we do
have members that have the institutional knowledge, but let me tell you where the
pool of unfiltered and unclouded institutional knowledge lays—it is within the staff.
I think that is where maintaining that institutional knowledge as far as having the
staff that does not get term-limited out is where the value is. Of course, we term limit
COUNCIL MEETING 93 MARCH 14, 2018
Councilmembers out prematurely, there is always that chance that even the staff
may go. With that being said, I think I have said my peace on the measure. I know
there are people out there clouding the issue that we are deciding as a body of
seven (7) whether or not to repeal term limits. I would like to remind members of the
public that, please, do not cloud the issue. This is just whether or not we support a
democracy where our voters can vote on the issue. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else? Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Regarding institutional knowledge,
Councilmembers can check with people like Council Chair Rapozo and myself even
when we are out of office. There are many times where the institutional knowledge
around this table is not listened to or is not even allowed to be expressed. When you
talk about institutional knowledge, if there is a real desire, and I hope that new
Councilmembers will really do that. I have to say that Councilmember Chock has
always done that. When he first came in, he goes and he talks to people who have
been around for a long time and experienced, and that shows a real humility and a
knowledge that you do not know that you do not know. That is the kind of attitude
we need around this, especially if you think institutional knowledge is important,
which I believe it is. It is certainly not the only thing on which to make decisions. It
does really help to know the past and the past discussions about the issues. It is fine
to let the people decide again, but when it is being done by people who have a stake
in the outcome, personal or financial stakes in the outcome, i.e., the possibility of
making money, because that is what this term limit right now stops, that is not really
appropriate and I think that there are other channels by which an amendment can
get on the ballot and it would be better if those other channels were taken on a neutral
body, like the Charter Commission or an initiative of the people.
Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else? Well, I guess I look at it a little
differently in some sense. I think Councilmember Kaneshiro talked about the
E-mails that we got and the names that we were called. Without even knowing the
position of any of the Councilmembers, the accusations started flying. Then, you get
former Councilmember Hooser who takes the liberty of his biweekly column in the
newspaper, and you talk about clouding the issue, really incites people to get angry
and to not like incumbents. I read that and I am like, "My gosh." So the readers out
there are getting angry and that forces them to send an E-mail to us and call us "dirty
heathens" and "selfish." The irony is that "selfish" is not allowing the public, the
voter, to vote for their person, because you are taking them off of the ballot because
of a Charter. I have said this numerous times over my career that everybody's voice
deserves to be heard on this table, everybody's voice. I have often been on the one
side of a 6:1 vote, representing that minority opinion. In this case, I have to commend
Councilmember Kagawa, who unfortunately took some really undeserving flack
because he happens to term out at the next election. Again, because of what was
being said, it all of a sudden becomes Councilmember Kagawa's method of or his
selfish method of being able to stay on the Council, without even knowing anything
about Councilmember Kagawa. Trust me, Councilmember Kagawa and I share many
of the same constituents because of the baseball games and the football games. So
we talk to a lot of the same people. I have to tell you that there is a lot of people that
are not happy with term limits. But the only vehicle to change that is through a
COUNCIL MEETING 94 MARCH 14, 2018
Charter Amendment. I understand that you can go through the initiative or the
Charter Review Commission, but the quickest way is to do it through the Council.
For that, I commend Councilmember Kagawa for putting his neck out. Again, to go
out and tell the public that the Council will be voting...I had to correct several posts
on Facebook, because the message was that this Council was voting on the term
limits, whether to keep it or dump it, that we were going to vote for it. I tell you that
if you read all of those comments that was said, it was just bad. People did not even
understand and they were misled or misguided because some people go out
there...again, because they want to insight this type of protest or"civil disobedience,"
I guess, in a mild way. But selfishness is really not allowing the public to vote. If
you are so convinced that this island wants to retain term limits, then why would you
oppose putting it on the ballot? Is there a fear that maybe people have changed their
minds since the last election and maybe you are not in the majority? I do not get it.
I think everyone said around this table...well, not everyone, but almost everyone,
that in fact, this is just to put it back on the ballot. The people will decide in 2018
whether or not term limits stay or go. When I first started, Kaipo Asing used to
always say...this came up over and over, and most of the time, it never passed on the
ballot, and then it finally did, but Kaipo used to always say, "The term limit is at the
voting box, at the booth. That is where term limits occur. Why would you deny the
voter, the citizen, an opportunity to retain someone that they believe is doing a good
job?" This takes that away. You deny the public the right to retain a Councilmember
that is doing a good job. Obviously, I will be supporting the Resolution. With that,
roll call.
The motion for adoption of Resolution No. 2018-03 was then put, and carried
by the following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Brun, Kagawa, Kaneshiro, Kawakami,
Rapozo TOTAL — 5,
AGAINST ADOPTION: Chock, Yukimura TOTAL — 2,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Motion passes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Next item, please.
Resolution No. 2018-09 — RESOLUTION CONFIRMING MAYORAL
APPOINTMENT TO THE POLICE COMMISSION (Jonelle L. Jardin):
Councilmember Kawakami moved for adoption of Resolution No. 2018-09, seconded
by Councilmember Chock.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there any discussion or public
testimony?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
COUNCIL MEETING 95 MARCH 14, 2018
Council Chair Rapozo: Roll call.
The motion for adoption of Resolution No. 2018-09 was then put, and carried
by the following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Brun, Chock, Kagawa, Kaneshiro,
Kawakami, Yukimura, Rapozo TOTAL— 7,
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Seven (7) ayes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Next item, please.
Resolution No. 2018-10 — RESOLUTION AMENDING RESOLUTION
NO. 2017-02 AND RESOLUTION NO. 2017-51, RELATING TO THE RULES OF
THE COUNCIL OF THE COUNTY OF KAUAI FOR THE ORGANIZATION OF
COMMITTEES AND THE TRANSACTION OF BUSINESS: Councilmember
Kaneshiro moved for adoption of Resolution No. 2018-10, seconded by
Councilmember Brun.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there any discussion or public
testimony?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: I just want to thank everyone for being willing
to come aboard the Planning Committee to get through the General Plan. It certainly
made a difference and I think was more efficient. Thank you.
Councilmember Yukimura: I just want to explain for the public that what
we are doing here is restoring our old organization where five (5) members of this
Council were members of the Planning Committee instead of the Committee as a
whole being the Planning Committee for the period of our General Plan deliberations.
Council Chair Rapozo: We had some quorum issues early on and
Councilmember Kawakami suggested that we move everybody over to the Planning
Committee, which was the smart thing to do, so thank you for that. Thank you to
Councilmember Chock. It was said back then that once the General Plan Update
process was done that we would revert back, so thank you for remembering.
Councilmember Kaneshiro and I both thank you for remembering this so now we no
longer serve on the Planning Committee. Roll call.
COUNCIL MEETING 96 MARCH 14, 2018
The motion for adoption of Resolution No. 2018-10 was then put, and carried
by the following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Brun, Chock, Kagawa, Kaneshiro,
Kawakami, Yukimura, Rapozo TOTAL — 7,
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Seven (7) ayes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Next item.
Resolution No. 2018-11 — RESOLUTION REPEALING RESOLUTION
NO. 2017-03 AND RESOLUTION NO. 2017-52, AND APPOINTING THE
CHAIRPERSONS, VICE CHAIRPERSONS, AND MEMBERS OF THE SEVERAL
STANDING COMMITTEES OF THE COUNCIL OF THE COUNTY OF KAUAI:
Councilmember Yukimura moved for adoption of Resolution No. 2018-11, seconded
by Councilmember Brun.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion or public testimony?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Roll call.
The motion for adoption of Resolution No. 2018-11 was then put, and carried
by the following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Brun, Chock, Kagawa, Kaneshiro,
Kawakami, Yukimura, Rapozo TOTAL— 7,
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Seven (7) ayes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Next item.
Resolution No. 2018-12 —RESOLUTION APPROVING A NOMINEE TO THE
WESTERN INTERSTATE REGION BOARD OF DIRECTORS FOR FISCAL YEAR
2018: Councilmember Kawakami moved for adoption of Resolution No. 2018-12,
seconded by Councilmember Yukimura.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there any discussion or public
testimony? Councilmember Kawakami.
COUNCIL MEETING 97 MARCH 14, 2018
Councilmember Kawakami: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. This is a
Resolution that is offered up by the Hawai`i State Association of Counties (HSAC)
and was introduced by myself to recognize the hard work of Hawai`i County
Councilmember Dru Kanuha, as he resigns as the Western Interstate Region (WIR)
representative, and we are moving forward to nominate one of our very own,
Councilmember Chock, to serve on the National Association of Counties (NACo)
Western Interstate Region representative.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much. Councilmember
Chock, I am assuming you are willing to serve.
Councilmember Chock: Yes, sir. I will do my best if I am nominated
or voted in to do so.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any other discussion or public
testimony?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Roll call.
The motion for adoption of Resolution No. 2018-12 was then put, and carried
by the following vote:
FOR ADOPTION: Brun, Chock, Kagawa, Kaneshiro,
Kawakami, Yukimura, Rapozo TOTAL— 7,
AGAINST ADOPTION: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Seven (7) ayes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Congratulations. Next item, please.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: On page 7, Emergency Bill.
EMERGENCY BILL:
Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2694) — AN EMERGENCY ORDINANCE
REPEALING EMERGENCY ORDINANCE NO. B-2018-835 AND AMENDING
ORDINANCE NO. B-2017-822, AS AMENDED, RELATING TO THE CAPITAL
BUDGET OF THE COUNTY OF KAUAI, STATE OF HAWAII, FOR THE FISCAL
YEAR JULY 1, 2017 THROUGH JUNE 30, 2018, BY REVISING THE AMOUNTS
ESTIMATED IN THE HIGHWAY FUND-CIP (Pua Nani Road Drain Repair —
CIP Budget): Councilmember Chock moved to approve Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2694)
COUNCIL MEETING 98 MARCH 14, 2018
pursuant to Kaua`i County Charter Section 4.02K, and that it be transmitted to the
Mayor for his approval, seconded by Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion or public testimony?
Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Are we amending what we just passed
recently?
Councilmember Kaneshiro: It is just housekeeping. They had the wrong
account number.
Councilmember Yukimura: So that is all we are doing here, right?
Councilmember Kaneshiro: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion or public testimony?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Roll call.
The motion to approve Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2694) pursuant to Kauai
County Charter Section 4.02K, and that it be transmitted to the Mayor for his
approval was then put, and carried by the following vote:
FOR APPROVAL: Brun, Chock, Kagawa, Kaneshiro,
Kawakami, Yukimura, Rapozo TOTAL — 7,
AGAINST APPROVAL: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Seven (7) ayes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Next item.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: We are on Bills for First Reading.
BILLS FOR FIRST READING:
Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2695) —A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
CHAPTER 19 AND ESTABLISHING A NEW ARTICLE 26, CHAPTER 22, KAUAI
COUNTY CODE 1987,AS AMENDED, RELATING TO WHIPS AND WEAPONS ON
COUNTY PROPERTY: Councilmember Yukimura moved for passage of Proposed
COUNCIL MEETING 99 MARCH 14, 2018
Draft Bill (No. 2695) on first reading, that it be ordered to print, that a public hearing
thereon be scheduled for April 11, 2018, and referred to the Public Safety &
Transportation Committee, seconded by Councilmember Kawakami.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: We have one (1) registered speaker.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Did you want to discuss the Bill
first before we open it up?
Councilmember Yukimura: I do not really have a lot to say, except that I
personally have been affected by it and others in the public have gotten quite a bit of
testimony that whips are really troubling, scary, intimidating, and disturbing. So
this Bill would make it clear that it is not allowed in public places, basically.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: I just want to thank Councilmember
Yukimura. She was brave enough to even go and talk to them when they were doing
it outside. Most of all, I wanted to do it for our employees that have to come here
every day because I want our employees to feel safe. Hopefully, this will carry forth
that the entire public will feel safe knowing that these weapons and whips will not
be allowed on any public property when we get done with the amendments. Thank
you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: I want to just mention, because I know the
question earlier was, "Shall we expand it to public areas?" I have seen the use of it
down at the parks and in other areas that I think it will be a good direction to move
into, seeing just to help how people are using the weapon or the bull whip. Thank
you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: We do disallow it on public grounds and we
may need to have an expansion even of that. We can certainly look at that specific
issue in the process of deliberation. I also want to say that I spoke to at least one (1)
person about it about who uses the whip, because I have invited them to the public
hearing because I want to hear from everyone who is going to be affected by this or
at least representation from people who are going to be affected by it. There was no
real malice intended, although it may not match our way of looking at things, some
of them just enjoy doing it,just like people like practicing shooting guns in the proper
environment. We have a rifle range, right? I understand that, but in our discussions,
I think the other party really understood how other people can be affected by it. I am
hoping that this Bill, if nothing else, also creates a really good dialogue where we
better understand each other. The bottom line is protecting the public.
Council Chair Rapozo: I have a question, and it is probably for
Mauna Kea, but right now, it is really limited to public grounds, which are areas that
COUNCIL MEETING 100 MARCH 14, 2018
are controlled by the County. If we wanted to expand that to any property or any
location that is open to the public, which would include private property—in other
words, the shopping mall is private property, but it is open to the public. I think you
understand what I am trying to say. Right now, if it is at a State park, it is not under
the control of the County. If it is at the mall, then you cannot do anything because it
is not under their control. My question is if we expand that, is that a significant
change that would require another public hearing? If it is, then I would assume that
we amend it here today before sending it to the public hearing.
Mr. Trask: Mauna Kea Trask, County Attorney. The
current Bill is for County parks and other areas in County jurisdiction, so like this
building, the campus, et cetera. If we are going to go to hotels, private areas that are
open to the public and things like that, I think that would be a change.
Council Chair Rapozo: A significant one?
Mr. Trask: Yes, probably. There are some other issues
that you would have to look at as well because, for example, CJM Stables is open to
the public and it is private property, but you are not going to take whips out of CJM
Stables. That is part of what they do. It is a delicate, complex thing. I would like
time to actually look at that.
Council Chair Rapozo: It is open to the public that is going to utilize
their services.
Mr. Trask: Correct.
Council Chair Rapozo: It is not open to the public just for any person
to walk in.
Mr. Trask: All I am saying is that it is obviously
inappropriate in a hotel lobby or hotel pool to bust out a whip and start cracking it.
But in other places, it may be different. It depends.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: The thing is that in those areas, they have the
ability to control it. Private property owners can forbid the carrying of it.
Mr. Trask: That is correct.
Councilmember Yukimura: At least in writing it,we chose to focus an area
where it was creating a problem, like at Kalena Park and also at all of our parks, on
the County premises, which is the Historic County Building premises, which is not
officially a park, and sidewalks and other things, which are considered public. That
is where we felt we wanted to start.
Mr. Trask: To be clear, currently, weapons are banned in
such areas. A whip is a weapon; however, there are some questions regarding
COUNCIL MEETING 101 MARCH 14, 2018
enforceability and vagueness that the Office of the Prosecuting Attorney was more
favorable or specifically including whips. But that is not to say that you would have
to include any other type of weapon specifically, so as to come under the purview of
the statute. I just wanted to point that out.
Councilmember Yukimura: The police also told us that this was
important, because right now, they say they want a complainant who is being
disturbed and so forth and people are hesitant to do that. But in a place like a
shopping center, you would definitely have a complainant. You would have the
shopping center management...there would be no problem with them stepping
forward. So the police, I think, could still enforce.
Mr. Trask: Yes, if the desire is to do some kind of
omnibus, singular bill that would amend everything, so as to do it...the larger you get
and the more expansive, the more difficult it is going to be to write and have it apply.
Just think about those things.
Councilmember Yukimura: So we might just want to start here and see
how it works.
Council Chair Rapozo: Why was firearms included in this? It is
already...
Councilmember Yukimura: It is just part of the existing language. It
should be.
Council Chair Rapozo: It looks like it is a whole new section. This is
a whole new...
Mr. Trask: Is that for the latest section? I think it is 26.
Council Chair Rapozo: I am just reading...I do not know if "at a
public ground" even makes sense. I think it is "public grounds"... "No person at a
public ground shall use, carry, or possess whips, firearms, and weapons of any
description, except for bows and arrows for archery competitions and air rifles for air
rifle..."
Councilmember Yukimura: Those are existing language.
Mr. Trask: I think the original...
Councilmember Yukimura: Aida?
Council Chair Rapozo: Is it existing?
Mr. Trask: I think it is existing in the parks part...is this
a park or is it not a park? If it is not a park, then it is a County public ground, so we
are trying to...
COUNCIL MEETING 102 MARCH 14, 2018
Council Chair Rapozo: I guess my point is that it is illegal to carry a
firearm anywhere.
Councilmember Yukimura: Which section are you referring to?
Council Chair Rapozo: Section 22-26.2.
Councilmember Yukimura: Because it is a new section to apply to public
grounds and we took the language from the other sections.
Mr. Trask: Under 134, you cannot carry a firearm...
Council Chair Rapozo: Which is a State statute, right?
Mr. Trask: Yes. We discussed those points. We, the
Office of the County Attorney, Councilmember Yukimura, the Police Department,
and the Office of the Prosecuting Attorney all met downstairs and talked about these
things and this is what came out of it. I think as Council Vice Chair Kagawa said,
after the public hearing, it will go to the Committee Meeting where we can sort all of
these issues out a little more in detail.
Council Chair Rapozo: For me, if we want to make a change that is
going to affect the need to do another public hearing because of a significant or
substantial change, then we need to do that here.
Mr. Trask: You are right.
Councilmember Yukimura: I think there is also the thought because you
are going to have to go through exceptions and so forth, that if we would start with
this and see how it works, and then if we need further bills, we can introduce them.
What Mauna Kea is saying is that there is a provision you can actually come under
for private property. It just takes another step. You just have to show that a whip is
a weapon.
Council Chair Rapozo: A whip is not illegal on private property. I am
just saying that in a place that is open to the public was my concern. It is not a
deal-breaker for me, but I am just saying that the complaints come from all over. It
is not just in public parks.
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, let us have the public hearing to see
where the complaints are coming from.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kagawa.
Councilmember Kagawa: I would like to see us...it sounds like opening
it up to all places where the public can access is going to take a little time. I would
rather we just approve this Bill and when the other one is ready, we can come forth
with...
COUNCIL MEETING 103 MARCH 14, 2018
Mr. Trask: It would really depend, like Councilmember
Yukimura said, about this situation. So you can be at any place, even at my house or
my neighbor goes up and threatens me up with a whip—it could be terroristic
threatening.
Council Chair Rapozo: That is different though. We are not talking
about threatening. We are talking about some knucklehead cracking that whip just
because he is having a good day and he is irritating the crap out of everybody. That
is who we are talking about.
Mr. Trask: Yes, if I am that knucklehead, I am on my
private property, and I am cracking a whip in my backyard however I want to, I have
that right.
Council Chair Rapozo: That is my point. The private property
though, in some cases, may be open to the public. That is what I am saying. The
whip in itself is not illegal. I think it is because I think it is weapon. When I read
the State statute, when we had all of these complaints about the person running
around over here, the police and the Prosecutor said, "No, it does not fit into that
section." So we are creating a new law. I understand and I support this. It was really
just a formality question of whether or not...
Mr. Trask: You are right, you would have to.
Council Chair Rapozo: If this body wants to move forward on this
Bill, then let us move forward. I do not want to argue or debate that. Let us move
forward on this Bill. I just raised the question in case any members had some ideas
of amending to the point where we needed a new public hearing and wasting some
time. Councilmember Kawakami.
Councilmember Kawakami: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. Maybe I
can clarify because I do have some experience with shopping centers; we have
three (3) of them and I sit on the Board of Directors for three (3) of them. We create
our own rules and regulations for our shopping center. Skateboards are not illegal,
but we definitely do not allow people to skateboard in our shopping centers. So we
create these rules and if people do not comply with the rules, what we do is ask them
to leave, and if they do not leave, then we call the Police Department and say, "We
have somebody that is trespassing on the property." That is how we avoid
overregulating and over-legislating. We create our own rules, because like what we
said, if we do it too broad, for someplace like CJM Stables that is open to the public,
for a rodeo event that is going to be open to the public, we do not want to create this
gray area where we are creating these laws that go too far overreaching. I do think
that this is a good start. Private property shopping centers and stores, they have
within their own toolboxes, ways to legislate and control their own rules, so I think
that is really covered. If it is a dangerous weapon like a whip, I am pretty sure that
the Kaua`i Police Department would respond if somebody was at a shopping center
and you had the manager calling saying that there is somebody with a whip. That is
my two cents.
COUNCIL MEETING 104 MARCH 14, 2018
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: There have been complaints from Hanapepe,
and Councilmember Kawakami knows that, too. I do not know if they are going to
come to the hearing. They may raise some issues of use on private property. So
Council Chair Rapozo is good to look ahead that we may want to do that. I think I
would rather do the intake of public input first to see before we make any
amendments. If we have to, we can pass one and then bring another bill forward to
close the loopholes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. I will call the meeting back to
order.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded
as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any further discussion? Is there
anyone in the audience wishing to testify?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Roll call.
The motion for passage of Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2695) on first reading, that
it be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be scheduled for
April 11, 2018, and referred to the Public Safety & Transportation Committee
was then put, and carried by the following vote:
FOR PASSAGE: Brun, Chock, Kagawa, Kaneshiro,
Kawakami, Yukimura, Rapozo TOTAL— 7,
AGAINST PASSAGE: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Seven (7) ayes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Next item.
Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2696) — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE
ESTABLISHING A NEW ARTICLE 16, CHAPTER 6, KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987,
AS AMENDED, ESTABLISHING AN AFFORDABLE HOUSING TRUST FUND:
Councilmember Brun moved for passage of Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2696) on first
reading, that it be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be scheduled for
April 11, 2018, and referred to the Budget & Finance Committee, seconded by
Councilmember Chock.
COUNCIL MEETING 105 MARCH 14, 2018
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there any discussion?
Councilmember Yukimura: Can we have the Housing Agency?
Council Chair Rapozo: I will suspend the rules.
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
KANANI FU, Housing Director: Good afternoon, Kanani Fu, Housing
Director.
Councilmember Yukimura: Hi, good afternoon. My question to the
introducer of the Bill was do we not already have a Housing Development Fund? I
was told that we do not have an Affordable Housing Development Fund.
Council Chair Rapozo: No, that is not what she was told. She was
told that there is a development fund, but it is not specific to affordable housing. Your
fund can fund affordable housing, but it is not restricted and limited to affordable
housing. That is what she was told.
Councilmember Yukimura: So I just need some clarification.
Ms. Fu: What is the question?
Councilmember Yukimura: Do we not already have a fund through which
we developed affordable housing?
Ms. Fu: Yes, so we currently have the Housing and
Community Development Fund that exists, and from that fund we use what exists in
that fund to support predevelopment of affordable housing projects. We can also
support loans and do finances for homeowners. Those are broad things as it pertains
to housing that we can do with moneys in this fund.
Councilmember Yukimura: I could swear that the Ordinance I saw in our
County Code said "Affordable Development Fund" or maybe it just said "Housing
Development Fund." Aida, do you know? Are we talking about the same thing?
Ms. Fu: The fund that I am referring to that exists, we
commonly call it the "211 Fund," but it is the Housing and Community Development.
It is a revolving fund and it is replenished through in-lieu fees, interest fees, and
program fees.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura, she is trying to
answer your question.
Councilmember Yukimura: I am sorry.
Council Chair Rapozo: That is the only fund you have as far as
development fund.
COUNCIL MEETING 106 MARCH 14, 2018
Ms. Fu: We also have the Pukui Fund that was set-up
in response from Hurricane `Iniki that still exists. That is also a revolving fund within
our agency.
Council Chair Rapozo: But the question is that we do not have a fund
that is dedicated to affordable housing for the sole purpose of affordable housing.
Ms. Fu: The whole agency is for the purpose of
affordable housing. Is the question that you want a budget specific for the
development of physical units?
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes or buying land/purchasing land.
Ms. Fu: That does not exist in our fund, so how the
development fund works, because it is broad, the Director determines through the
budget what gets allocated for what. If the priorities are to develop, which is what
our priorities are, and we have taken the stance that the Housing Agency does the
predevelopment for the developers, so we do the environmental...that is what we use
that money for. There is no ordinance per se, that specifies that this money has to be
used for development only. That would probably handcuff us.
Council Chair Rapozo: It would also assure us that we have funds
available if we needed to purchase land. The whole purpose of this is because we
keep hearing about "affordable housing" and we are praying for some miracle, some
developer to come in and just grant us two thousand (2,000) units. At the end of the
day, we do not have land and we do not have a fund that is dedicated to purchasing
land.
Ms. Fu: The account can be used for the fund. I think
what we are looking for is a mechanism to fund the account or the fund the fund, and
that is what is missing from the discussion. We can talk about how this is funded,
but the account and the trust fund serves the same purpose of what is being proposed.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay.
Councilmember Yukimura: In our Ordinance, we create a Housing
Development Fund. That is in the Ordinance. Then we have another Ordinance that
defines affordable housing, which is the range based on Area Median Income (AMI),
and basically defines that the scope of work of the Housing Agency is affordable
housing. You are not going to do market housing, right?
Ms. Fu: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: So those funds that you talk about are not
able to be used for assisting with the Hanama`ulu development or any of that?
Ms. Fu: They can be.
Council Chair Rapozo: That is my point. That is not affordable.
COUNCIL MEETING 107 MARCH 14, 2018
Ms. Fu: The funds that we have available, we could
potentially use it to subsidize any housing project to create affordable housing for
people on Kauai. It is at the discretion and direction of the Housing Director through
the budget process. If this year our priority is to utilize that fund specifically just for
affordable housing development, then the Director could make that budget
presentation and we would go through that process.
Councilmember Yukimura: You can use the money in the fund to buy
land. I think we used it to buy the land for Rice Camp, right?
Ms. Fu: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: You can use it for predevelopment costs,
anything that is associated with the goals of the Housing Agency, which are only
regarding affordable housing can be used, right?
Ms. Fu: Yes, that is the logic nexus of the fund.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: I get that it kind of holds you back if we put
some limits or create a new fund, but I think I actually like the idea that if this body
creates a mechanism for funds to be developed specifically for what we want, then we
know it will not be utilized in any other way. I actually like that. Whether or not the
mechanism is within the current fund that you have, I think that is something that
is appealing to me and I just want to make sure that opportunity is not being missed
in what is being proposed here.
Ms. Fu: Just to clarify, the current Housing
Development Fund that exists is a broad account. Again, the Director can decide if
we are going to use the pot for predevelopment, or if we are going to use it for loans,
or gap-financing or subsidizing housing. What I hear you saying is that you want
something specifically for development, that we do not have that right now. Every
year, we can say, similar to open space, an allotment of one million
dollars ($1,000,000) is just for development. That does not exist for us right now.
Council Chair Rapozo: I understand and that is why I am
introducing this Bill because we do not have a mechanism like that. We discuss this
every single meeting at some point for some issue and we are talking about affordable
housing, yet, you talk about being handcuffed, we are handcuffed. This is an
opportunity for the Council, whoever is the Council, to allocate funds at the budget
into a fund that they know will have funds...the Charter does it for open space.
Ms. Fu: Yes.
Council Chair Rapozo: I want to do something like that for affordable
housing, but I do not want to be stuck to the restrictions of a Charter. This one is an
COUNCIL MEETING 108 MARCH 14, 2018
ordinance, so it is much more flexible. Councils in the future can amend it without
having to go through a Charter Amendment. This is a simple vehicle to basically
allow the Council to say, "Hey, if we want to put our money where our mouth is, this
is the vehicle we will use. We will put money into this vehicle so that we can go out
and pursue land purchase options." That is all this is. I do not want to overcomplicate
it. That is the whole purpose. I understand that you have the other fund, but it
serves a different purpose. Yours is a much broader purpose, but I am looking for a
much tighter purpose.
Ms. Fu: Within the trust account that we have, there
are specific funds that are specified for certain things and it is broken down within
the trust account. For example, when we collect in-lieu fees, that is put into a
subaccount and those in lieu fees are specified specifically from the area we collected
fees. The same mechanism can be said if we did a subaccount for our existing housing
trust fund that this subaccount, the Affordable Trust Fund, that Council directs to
fund every year. It could be created under the existing and I gave an example of what
we currently have.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: That was going to be my question, is there
anything from preventing us...I do not think we have ever done it before and that is
why Council Chair Rapozo brought it up, but the budget comes up, we cut a certain
amount, and we decide rather than putting it in the Reserve Fund, we want to put it
towards affordable housing. Is it possible for us to earmark it to land purchases and
a certain thing, rather than it going into a pot in this fund and say, "This is only going
to be for purchasing of land," or something like that.
Ms. Fu: I believe it is and I believe that it is done
through just amending the current account and just adding the subaccount on
specified what the intent of that subaccount is for. Again, like our fee account, our
subaccount is specific by Ordinance that it has to be directed towards the area where
the fees were collected. We could do that same logic and apply it that the affordable
trust account is only specific for the development of affordable housing, but it is a
subaccount of the overall housing trust. Then, we do not have to set up another
housing trust fund. That is just a suggestion.
Councilmember Chock: Are those subaccounts restricted or can they
be restricted?
Ms. Fu: Yes.
Councilmember Chock: Okay. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: By the Council?
Ms. Fu: They were restricted through Ordinance, so
with Council's passing. You will see the reference on the subaccounts on how they
were created and what ordinances...
COUNCIL MEETING 109 MARCH 14, 2018
Council Chair Rapozo: The budget is an ordinance, too.
Ms. Fu: True.
Council Chair Rapozo: Those moneys get used for reasons outside of
what the Council approves. I am just trying to be real.
Councilmember Kawakami: So help me here—we currently have the
Housing and Community Development Revolving Fund and the revenue stream
comes from various different sources. At the Federal level, we have the United States
Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD), which is "HUD." We have
the Community Development Block Grant (CDBG), we have the Small Cities
program, and Home Investment Partnerships Program, the Rural Economic
Community Development Services of the United States Department of
Agriculture (USDA), and then it says that we have other Federal, State, and County
agencies that can input to the fund.
(Councilmember Brun was noted as not present.)
Councilmember Kawakami: So realistically through our budgeting, we can
put in excess revenue when we see fit and proviso it specifically for land acquisition,
right?
Ms. Fu: Yes.
Councilmember Kawakami: That is the way to do it.
Ms. Fu: Yes. That would be the most transparent way
to do it.
Councilmember Kawakami: Okay. If we can do it that way, then it already
exists. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you for passing this out, Yvette. It
shows what is in our Ordinance right now. Do you have a copy?
Ms. Fu: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: I think we might want to amend this, but I
think it achieves basically what you, Council Chair Rapozo, are trying to do and it
has a revolving account that can be used for interim financing, purchase of land, and
it has a buyback account where we use...we talked about it at the last meeting, to
buyback properties that are restricted by a buyback provision, a development trust
account, and it is tied to Ordinance No. 860, which defines affordability. Then, that
can be used for subsidizing capital improvements for purchasing leaseholds,
acquiring real property, and then there is that leasehold account which we use just
related to leaseholds. We might want to take this and make sure that the purpose
COUNCIL MEETING 110 MARCH 14, 2018
you intend, Council Chair Rapozo, is fulfilled by amendments to this. I want to say
that I am working on a charter amendment, much like our open space one for housing.
Council Chair Rapozo: Like I said earlier, I think the Charter
Amendment...it is just really difficult when you have to change it. Even with the
open space one, we had to go through a whole Charter Amendment versus an
ordinance where you do not know if the Council or the County is going to...things are
going to change fiscally and I just think the ordinance way is a better way to...through
the budget process to put money in places that you need to put money, versus a
Charter directive. Then you do not have an option and you cannot change it unless
you go back to the election ballot in the next General Election. I am wary of that. I
know that the Open Space Fund was created that way and I think the intentions were
good, but now to change it, you have to go back to the ballot and hope that the voters
agree. That is for another discussion. What I am hearing is that you would prefer,
Kanani, that we work to amend or specify the terms in Section 6.9-3(c) to incorporate
the mechanisms to assure that affordable housing or land...
Ms. Fu: That is the point of view, I understand, but I
am not the Finance Director, so whatever is easier...well, not easier...whatever the
longevity of the fund to serve the purpose and I think by creating it within the current
account, it serves the purpose that we are trying to accomplish today and it provides
oversight, because it is by Ordinance, and our Ordinance directs how we fund these
accounts. It is good, but at the end of the day, it directs us how to fund it, but it does
not show us where the money comes from. Unless there is a thing that directs us to
fund the accounts, the accounts are fine as they stand.
Council Chair Rapozo: The Council at the budget process, will
determine that we want to take whatever...one million dollars ($1,000,000), two
million dollars ($2,000,000), or three million dollars ($3,000,000) and move it over to
an affordable housing account to be used to go get land. That might be the directive.
If we send it to your development trust account, I do not know where...I have heard
it before...where the separation of powers...so once it goes across, it is the Housing
Director's or the Housing Agency's prerogative to use how they want and if the
Council wanted for it to be used to purchase land, that necessarily will not happen. I
heard Councilmember Kawakami say "proviso," but is that, in fact, a legal proviso
once we find that account, or does the rules...
(Councilmember Brun was noted as present. Councilmember Kagawa was
noted as not present.)
Councilmember Yukimura: We put it in the budget.
Council Chair Rapozo: Like I said, everything goes in the budget and
they are not tied to spend it the way we approved it. They have certain powers at the
administrative level that allows them to utilize funds the way they see fit. That is
what my fear is, so that is why I wanted to create the other one.
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, if we have a Mayor who is committed to
affordable housing, I am sure it will be fine.
COUNCIL MEETING 111 MARCH 14, 2018
Council Chair Rapozo: I think you folks got my drift. I want to make
sure that if this Council decides to put millions of dollars into an account that is going
to specifically be used for affordable housing—again, for me, it is buying land.
Without land, it is tough. That is just my own opinion. I do not want to put the
money in there, get the votes, then it goes across, and all of a sudden it is being used
for something else. That is where I am concerned. Councilmember Kawakami.
Councilmember Kawakami: I think we can accomplish it. Here is what
worries me is that the Council, we are the voice of the people, but we are by no means
the expert in housing. There are so many moving parts as far as housing and market
demand, and even property acquisition and the timing of property acquisition. I am
more compelled to use the existing vehicle and even work with the Administration on
money bills if property pops up for acquisition. The last thing that I want to do is
going through our legislative process, dump in a big chunk of change into a new fund
when there is nothing that is going to be ready to be spent on. We see that time and
time again during the budget process. I have seen it at every level where we throw
money in and then the appropriation lapses because the money is not ready to move.
We saw that at Black Pot when we appropriated one million five hundred thousand
dollars ($1,500,000) and we put it back over to the County and the property was not
ready to acquire and the tax map keys (TMKs) were not drawn properly, so the one
million five hundred thousand dollars ($1,500,000) lapsed. I think that is my biggest
concern. The intent of this is well-intended, but if we are hearing that there is an
existing vehicle and there are ways...maybe it is a question for the County
Attorney...if during the budget process we appropriate, say hypothetically, "one
million five hundred thousand dollars ($1,500,000) for the acquisition of TMK 1.11 in
`Ele`ele," can the Administration move that money? Can they shuffle it around
hypothetically for other purposes if in the budgeting process we are specific to a
certain parcel of land or even for the development of a project and we are specific in
the title?
(Councilmember Kagawa was noted as present)
Councilmember Kawakami: Is there is a hypothetical shall game that can
be played with the Administration to move that money somewhere else?
Mr. Trask: Within the Department, yes. Between
Departments, they have to come for a money bill and I think something generally
specific about salaries you cannot move, but you can move money around. Once an
appropriation is made, the Departments can shuffle within their own Department.
Councilmember Kawakami: So even in that capacity, like if we were to add
a budget item for a specific parcel of land, we budget that, then you folks can
re-appropriate that money and move it?
Mr. Trask: I would like to be able to look at the chart.
Councilmember Kawakami: It is real specific. I am not saying that we are
putting in a general line item for land acquisition. I am saying that there is a parcel
of land that we have identified that is up for sale that we think is a good deal to be
COUNCIL MEETING 112 MARCH 14, 2018
acquired that has a TMK, that has a physical address, and we proviso it to that
extent; can you folks move that money? I would be very concerned at a bigger level
if the answer is "yes" that you folks can move that money.
Council Chair Rapozo: If you are talking about a specific TMK, if you
have already identified the parcel, then it is going to come in a form of a money bill.
The problem is that we are going to run into the issue when we had those land
opportunities in Ha'ena and Kekaha where the land was available, the window was
closing, it takes us forever to do a money bill, as opposed to having the funds available
where the transactions could have been finished. Let me ask you this, Kanani; if you
had a pot of money of three million dollars ($3,000,000), could you secure land? Would
you be in a position to go out and negotiate with the big landowners knowing that you
have the money readily available, versus waiting for an opportunity then have to
come back...first of all, get your Administration to approve and come to this body and
go through the whole process of probably two (2) months or three (3) months to get
the money.
Ms. Fu: If I had three million dollars ($3,000,000),
could we acquire property quickly? Probably not. The answer is most likely not.
Council Chair Rapozo: Why not?
Ms. Fu: The acquisition of private land and housing,
from my standpoint, requires us to go through a full-blown Environmental
Assessment (EA) and a full-blown due diligence before we even consider the project
for development. It would not be in the best interest of the County to just acquire
land within a thirty (30) to sixty (60) day period. We would take a longer period of
time to go through due diligence from a housing standpoint. What we are coming
upon, and I want to point out, is that our housing fund is a revolving fund, so the
moneys never lapse and it has been continuing to replenish itself through loan
interest fees and programmatic fees coming in. The fund, similar to Pukui, is
dwindling. At the last Comprehensive Annual Financial Report (CAFR), we had one
million five hundred thousand dollars ($1,500,000) available to spend this year.
There is no mechanism to fund and replenish that because the program fees are
shrinking as people pay off their loans or as the projects convert the loans to a
permanent loan, so they pay it back. That is what we are facing. The shortage of the
development fund that would not allow us to acquire as quickly, but on the other
hand, we have to be mindful that as a public entity, we are still required to go through
the five hundred (500) steps before we actually acquire property. It has been our
game plan now, is we are really investing in public land that we already own, because
it is simpler for us. One, we acquire it, so we own it, and then a lot of the money that
we need is all for the predevelopment. So every time we try to site a project, the
initial investment is about two hundred fifty thousand dollars ($250,000). You
normally go through maybe two (2) to five (5) sites before you pick one. That is the
kind of due diligence that we have to go through. It is not only the site, like, "Oh, it
is the perfect place." The site has to have environmental clearances and all kinds of
stuff that we deal with. So will three million dollars ($3,000,000) impact housing of
acquiring land? It could if opportunities come up in pocket areas that existed for
Kaniko`o; that was a prime opportunity. I would say, like moving forward, a majority
COUNCIL MEETING 113 MARCH 14, 2018
of what the money will be used for in the next five (5) years is all predevelopment or
partnerships with people who own land and have affordable housing requirements to
meet, and larger landowners. The fund can be used to team up with them to help
them meet their requirements.
Councilmember Yukimura: Like Koa`e?
Ms. Fu: Yes, so that could be how we could utilize that
fund in partnerships.
Council Chair Rapozo: With that process, we will never reach the
goal for affordable housing.
Ms. Fu: No, we need one hundred million
dollars ($100,000,000) to reach the goal.
Council Chair Rapozo: Well, to reach it right now.
Ms. Fu: Yes, over ten (10) years.
Council Chair Rapozo: Right. At some point, that is where this whole
thing started is I want to see a fund that that is what we are going to use it for.
Otherwise, you will never get there. Four (4) units there, eleven (11) units there, and
six (6) units here, versus...again, I am just thinking that if we had the funds
available, then it would be a lot easier to negotiate with the private landowners to
get us some land.
Ms. Fu: Our Housing Trust Fund historically has only
been used for housing. You go back and look at our budget, it does not cover salaries.
It covers predevelopment loans and partnerships. We do not use it for other things.
Moneys in the trust fund have to stay in the trust fund, but they can go through
difference of accounts. Nonetheless, they all converge to housing, or a partnership,
or supporting more housing.
Mr. Trask: I want to touch on one thing. Under
Section 19.08A. of the Charter, "The enactment of the annual budget ordinance shall
constitute an appropriation of the sums specified therein for the purposes and from
the funds indicated..." Per Councilmember Kawakami's hypothetical, if you were to
put a certain amount of money towards a certain TMK for a certain purpose, that
would be an appropriation for that. "Such appropriations shall be considered valid
only for that fiscal year for which it was made at any part of such appropriation which
is not encumbered or expended shall lapse." If you go down to 19.08 F, "The mayor
may at any time transfer an unencumbered appropriation balance or portion thereof
within a division or between divisions in the same department. Transfers between
departments, boards or commissions, shall be made only by Council by ordinance
adopted pursuant to Section 19.07B. upon recommendation of the mayor." So the key
is not the appropriation, but it is actually the encumbering of that money. So if that
money is not encumbered after the budget, then the executive can move it around.
COUNCIL MEETING 114 MARCH 14, 2018
Ms. Fu: I do not know if that would apply to the
Revolving Fund.
Mr. Trask: Yes, but certain funds have restrictions. If
the money goes into a fund and there are restrictions for that fund, then that has to
be used only for that fund's purposes. But generally, a budget allocation can be moved
around.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kawakami.
Councilmember Kawakami: So if you just create another fund and we
make a budget appropriation; based on your interpretation of the Charter, is this
treated just like another budget appropriation where it lapses after a year?
Mr. Trask: No, if you have a special fund and it is
revolving, that is different.
Councilmember Kawakami: This is a fund we are creating with this
proposed bill, right? We are creating this through ordinance. How do we treat that?
Do we treat that as a revolving fund under the Charter or do we treat that as a fund
that we created? When we make budget appropriations, do we view it just as a budget
appropriation saying that it lapses after a year?
Mr. Trask: I understand. Let me clarify on that point.
Later in Section 19.15B, "In addition to the funds established by this charter, the
mayor, with the approval of council, can establish other funds when necessary." So
you can have specific funds for specific purposes, but even if the Council were to
appropriate money for that, it does not mean that the executive would necessarily
have to spend it. That is the checks and balances on the whole thing. I just want to
be clear.
Council Chair Rapozo: But we could specify, like we did at Spouting
Horn, when we created the fund and said that those funds can only be used for park
maintenance at Spouting Horn.
Mr. Trask: Yes. Like the Highway Fund and specific
purposes, all those kinds of things. I misunderstood your question. I thought we
were talking about budget generally, but if we are talking about the context of special
funds that you are creating via ordinance, then that is different.
Council Chair Rapozo: No, his question was about the general
budget. The subsequent question was about this Bill.
Councilmember Kawakami: Yes.
Mr. Trask: Special funds, you can tie them up tighter.
Councilmember Kawakami: So Special Fund, the money will not lapse
after a year?
COUNCIL MEETING 115 MARCH 14, 2018
Mr. Trask: If you provide that it does not, then it will not.
Councilmember Kawakami: Then we can just create special fund.
Councilmember Yukimura: I have a question; so is this Housing
Development Fund not a special fund?
Ms. Fu: It is a special fund within the trust fund. I
think the concern that we are hearing is if we earmark money, how do we ensure that
that money does not go beyond our Department or outside of the purpose of what it
is for? Within a Revolving Fund, it cannot, and what exists is our Revolving Fund.
However, within the Revolving Fund lies three (3) subaccounts, so I would assume
that the money can be shifted through those subaccounts without Council approval,
once it is appropriated after the budget.
Councilmember Yukimura: But it is still for housing.
Ms. Fu: But the purpose remains the same.
Councilmember Yukimura: You are focused on affordable housing, not
market housing, so it does stay within that purpose.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any more questions? Go ahead.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: I know we had a half an hour conversation on
this, but I am getting completely confused. So if in the budget process we allocate
and say, "Okay, we cut one million five hundred thousand dollars ($1,500,000) from
somewhere and we have that up here; what do we do with it?" We say, "We want to
put one million five hundred thousand dollars ($1,500,000) into the Housing
Development Fund Account specifically for land purchasing," you are telling me that
it can then go and be spent in any of the subjects or is it restricted because we say it
is restricted when we put it in there?
Mr. Trask: So you are looking at Section 6-9.3?
Councilmember Kaneshiro: Correct.
Mr. Trask: There are those four (4) accounts...which
account? You put it into...
Councilmember Kaneshiro: Development Trust Account.
Councilmember Yukimura: The Development Revolving Account?
Council Chair Rapozo: Development Trust Account.
Mr. Trask: Yes, so (c).
COUNCIL MEETING 116 MARCH 14, 2018
Councilmember Kaneshiro: I just do not want to duplicate our process
where if we can do it that way and restrict it...I think the whole intent is to be able
to say, "We, the Council, want to allocate this amount of money for this purpose for
affordable housing." If it is purchasing land, we want to put one million five hundred
thousand dollars ($1,500,000) specifically for purchasing land and we do not want it
to get moved to purchase County's fee interest and establishing leasehold or
something, it is going to be restricted to that and whether we can do that now with
the existing framework or we have to create a new fund, which will take more time.
I am just trying to get an understanding. I did not get a clear answer.
Mr. Trask: Say if you were to put the money specifically
in Section 6-9.3(c), specifically for (c)(3), I would have to go and research, but the
Mayor would likely be able to use it for something else within that specific account.
You cannot use the purse strings to otherwise subvert the executive authority, and
that is how we would have to figure out how it would work, but there would be some
restrictions, I think, but I do not know if it would totally force the executive both to
spend that money on that project and prohibit them from moving it around as
appropriate within that account.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: (c)(3) specifically says, "acquiring real
property suitable for residential purposes," and that is what we would want to put
that money in there for and not see it get moved to one, or two, or something else. If
we do that, do we need to create a whole new fund to be able to specify where it goes?
Mr. Trask: If it would otherwise work within (c)(3), then
you may not need to create a new account, but I do not know if that is...I am kind of
getting confused, too.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: I am willing to come back. For me, I think the
easiest way would be for us to be able to put it into this fund with a restriction on it,
saying, "We are putting this money in specifically for(c)(3), for acquiring real property
suitable for residential purposes."
(Councilmember Chock was noted as not present.)
Councilmember Kaneshiro: We may add in for affordable housing or
something like that and it stays there. Then for somebody else to come and say, "Oh,
we have money here, let us just move it." I do not know how that would work. I want
the simplest, easiest way to do it. The easiest way would be...I could see at budget
time we say, "We have a lapse and we have this amount of money; we want to put it
into this account specifically." We have done it before where we said, "We want to
put it into roads," or we want to put it into something. We want to be able to put it
into purchasing land for affordable housing, if that is what the whole Council agrees
on and that is what the purpose is for. What is the easiest way to get there? If you
do not know the answer, then I guess we will wait until Committee.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura.
COUNCIL MEETING 117 MARCH 14, 2018
Councilmember Yukimura: I think we need to understand the process
that the Agency goes through in developing affordable housing, because if you restrict
it for a specific piece of property to be acquired and so forth, then you are actually
defeating the purpose you want where if a property becomes available and you want
them to pursue it, even if for just the assessment process, they are not going to be
able to do it.
(Councilmember Chock was noted as present.)
Councilmember Yukimura: We all have admitted that it is like a lot of
pieces having to come together in order to make a project happen and they have to
have the flexibility and the ability to do whatever is needed. You do not want to
restrict...we are not there every day to try to figure the whole process out. There has
to be a respect for the administrative processes as well as the legislative. You cannot
just restrict it so much because we said so. They always come back to us to get
approvals along the way, whether it is Koa`e or Rice Camp. From the beginning, they
ask us to fund assessment, so we are brought along in the process. I am just saying...
Council Chair Rapozo: You are assuming that we are talking about a
specific parcel of property.
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, that is because that is how I am hearing
it.
Council Chair Rapozo: No, purchase or property.
Councilmember Yukimura: Well, the thing is, what if we have a piece of
property, we, the Agency, and they are beginning to build on it and they need just
this little amount of money...they cannot take if it is in this account...if it is going to
move towards development of affordable housing?
Mr. Trask: With the Development Trust Account, you can
use it for administrative construction, affordable workforce housing, and such uses
may include, one, subsidizing capital improvements of rental and home ownership
housing, or three, acquiring real property. So if you put money in for real
property...but then whatever housing projects...I do not know...there is a sinkhole or
a big thing, well, now you have a ten million dollar ($10,000,000) liability that you
have to move that money to fix it because people are living there now. That is going
to get moved and arguably appropriately. If you want a separate account just for
acquisition, it may be easier just to get a separate account for acquisition, so the
Administration is not faced with a difficult decision of, "Oh, we can use this money
for both things. People are out in the streets now and we would love to purchase that
other property, but the immediate need is now." The separate account would be
better if you just want to use that money just for acquisition.
Councilmember Yukimura: But the question is whether that kind of
separate account is really going to move the needle in terms of the amount of
affordable housing that we produce. If we are entrusting the agency, and it is
COUNCIL MEETING 118 MARCH 14, 2018
sometimes a matter of trust, to do everything possible in the right way to provide
affordable housing, you cannot have all of these silos that they cannot use.
Council Chair Rapozo: What will move the needle—let me ask that
question. Every time I hear why this cannot work. Tell me what would move the
needle, Kanani. What would move that needle to build housing? I am tired talking
about the need.
Ms. Fu: Fund the trust account.
Council Chair Rapozo: I am sorry?
Ms. Fu: Fund the trust account.
Council Chair Rapozo: Right.
Ms. Fu: Replenish the trust account and not make
it...I think how it is set up...I want to defend the Administration and the Housing
Agency really quickly, because I think historically, you are looking at what may have
happened with other Departments or certain situations. For the most part, my
predecessors, the two (2) that I have had before me, have done a really good job
managing the trust account and the Housing trust. We had a fund account last
twenty (20) years and built two (2) projects and then some. So there is transparency
that exists within the Housing Agency. It has never not existed, I believe. You folks
think you folks are difficult with funding? We go through a whole other Federal
oversight, which is just crazier, so everything that we present has to be accounted for.
If I come here and I say, "I need a money bill for four hundred fifty thousand
dollars ($450,000) to do predevelopment on Koa`e," then I need to take that
resolution/money bill, everything I have documented, and then submit it to HUD for
the matching, and we cannot go off of that. We are constrained as far with spending
by a Federal agency oversight as well. So historically, we do not mess around a lot
and we do not move moneys, because it is just not in the best interest of the Agency.
Council Chair Rapozo: I hope you are not hearing that from me...
Ms. Fu: No, I am not, but I wanted to clarify how the
Agency has to run to be effective. In addition...
Council Chair Rapozo: That is why rather than mingle our funds
with a separate account...
Ms. Fu: It is separate from Federal. In addition, at
certain times, there is an opportunity to purchase a parcel, and it came with Kaniko`o.
We were ready and it took some time and we were able to capitalize on that
opportunity. Currently, there has not been an opportunity to purchase land....so
what I am going to do? Build a trust account and not use it? No, I am going to tap
it, pre-develop and make partnerships with private developers to get them going. I
do not want us to be limited like how I see the Open Space Commission where they
have millions of dollars, but they are shackled by a narrow purpose, I want to say. I
COUNCIL MEETING 119 MARCH 14, 2018
appreciate the purpose being broad like this. It is not just for me...it not just benefits
me, it benefits every Director that comes after me to allow them the ability to make
these kinds of decisions for the Agency. One million dollars ($1,000,000) from the
Agency is ten million dollars ($10,000,000) to twelve million dollars ($12,000,000) in
the real world. That is why our money is really, really powerful, so we have to make
good decisions on where we are going to use it. Sometimes, a land acquisition may
not be in the best interest of the County. It could be taking that three million
dollars ($3,000,000) and giving it to a private developer and letting them take it and
build out more. We have to analyze every situation.
Council Chair Rapozo: I do know that if we had a bank of land, we
would have more opportunities to build affordable housing; true affordable housing,
not four hundred ninety-nine thousand dollars ($499,000).
Ms. Fu: We will bring one online shortly for the
County.
Council Chair Rapozo: I am talking properties of significance that
would require money, so we would have that leverage and that ability to go and
negotiate with Alexander & Baldwin (A&B) and Grove Farm Company and say, "We
want to do a meaningful development and we want to work with a partner who can
turn these projects, four hundred seventy-five thousand dollars ($475,000), like they
do on Hawai`i Island. We have to start somewhere, but it is difficult if we do not have
the money in an account. I hear what you are saying. I will withdraw my motion
and we will just move forward with working with your Development Trust Account.
If this Council puts money, three million dollars ($3,000,000), and you are saying that
if a project comes up that to go partnership...then I do not know if I want to do that.
I am thinking land, banking land—that is me. We are going to be handcuffed. We
are starting to look at park land right now, trying to convert one-third (1/3) of park,
but we should be negotiating with land owners and say, "We want to buy fourteen (14)
acres. What is the best deal?" We can then start moving towards denting this need.
We can move forward and get passed this, but we can chat later about how we can
make this happen. Are there any other questions for the Administration? If not,
thank you.
Ms. Fu: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: While the rules are still suspended, would
anyone in the audience like to testify?
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Councilmember Brun withdrew the motion for passage of Proposed Draft
Bill (No. 2696) on first reading, that it be ordered to print, that a public hearing
thereon be scheduled for April 11, 2018, and referred to the Budget & Finance
Committee, Councilmember Chock withdrew the second.
COUNCIL MEETING 120 MARCH 14, 2018
Councilmember Kagawa moved to receive Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2696) for
the record, seconded by Councilmember Chock.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there any further discussion?
Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: I really appreciate the intent underlying this
proposal. I think we are already negotiating for land through Ordinance No. 860.
Koa`e is a negotiated land and Kolopua was negotiated land through our inclusionary
zoning Ordinance No. 860. So there are ways to get land and I think what I heard
from the Housing Director is that what is really missing is the money, the capital.
Because we have had forty million dollars ($40,000,000) since after the hurricane and
because the Housing Agency since then has stewarded the money so carefully, it only
ran out two (2) or three (3) years ago. So we need a new infusion of capital. There is
no way that we are going to begin to address the housing need without that. Of
course, we can waste away any new capital we get unless we have really good
planning and really good collaboration, and I am counting on the Housing Agency to
do that. The capital is the missing factor and I am preparing a Charter Amendment,
because if we allow the annual budget process, we just do not put enough money into
the matter. So I hope this body will allow the people of the island to vote on it because
it is the only way to get a consistent amount of capital over the next ten (10) years, if
we were to make any dent on the housing situation on Kauai. I do appreciate all of
the thinking that is going into this, because we need all the good thinking we can get
in order to address this humungous problem that is affecting so many of our families.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kawakami.
Councilmember Kawakami: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. The intent
of creating this fund is well-intended and I am glad that we are having the discussion.
In my opinion, the Housing Agency of the past and current, has done all that they
could possibly do as far as increasing the inventory and has been doing a good job, as
far as partnering up. There are many different avenues that this Council is starting
to take to increase our inventory of affordable housing: the Additional Rental
Unit (ARU) Bill and a Bill that I have recused myself from, so I should never speak
on it, but it has to do with infill development and increasing density to allow for more
affordable units. Collectively, what we should also look at when I speak to people
that are experts in the development of housing and affordable housing, we should
take a look back at our current housing ordinance to see how successful it has been,
compared to the units that have been actually coming up. I only say this because the
one resounding thing that I hear from people that really want to contribute to the
affordable housing is that the current Ordinance may be able to be improved in some
sense to make it more feasible. At the end of the day, here is how it works—in order
for a developer to come in and build affordable housing, it needs to make financial
sense. We should be cognizant that it is a matter of economics. Anybody that we
expect to come in to lose money on a project and say, "Hey, yes, we want to lose money
on a project," is just not going to happen in this type of economy. When we are trying
to address the increase of affordable housing, this is what we are trying to solve. This
is the symptom, so we are trying to come up with solutions, but I think the overall
solution is much deeper than just creating another fund. I think we should perhaps
COUNCIL MEETING 121 MARCH 14, 2018
take a look at how many units we have added since the enactment of the affordable
housing ordinance. If there is any way to improve it, then where can the
improvements be made? Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: I hear Council Chair Rapozo say it all the time
that we need to land bank and I saw the intent of this, but I think I heard very clearly
what the Housing Agency said what they need, and she said it is to put more money
into their Housing Development Fund, allow them to be able to do what they do on a
daily basis and that would be the biggest impact to them. I do not think in the past
that we have ever put money into that fund, not during the past few years that I have
been here doing the budget. I have not heard much about the budget coming over
with that fund increasing, so it will be interesting to see what we do. The budget is
going to be coming up real shortly, I think within the next week or so, and she said
that the best thing we can do for her is to add money into that account and I take that
message. We will see what we can do. Hopefully, it can come here from the executive
side and have more money in it, but we will see how it goes.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura and the
Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Yukimura: I agree that the current Ordinance needs to be
looked at, because even if we have the money, we cannot do it with money alone. We
need land and the current Ordinance, or some form of that, will give us the option of
getting land. I had a Housing Advisory Committee that worked for three (3) years
and we have some amendments that could be proposed as soon as we can finalize
them to amend the current Ordinance, and it would emphasize land acquisition. The
contributions of developers to affordable housing cannot be viewed as a standalone,
but it has to be viewed in the context of the market housing that they are doing. If
marketing housing does not meet the needs of our community, we should not allow it
unless they also contribute to some affordable housing. That is the power and
importance of Ordinance No. 860 right now. We cannot judge only what that
Ordinance has done, because the Ordinance was adopted in 2008 or just before that,
so it was during the period of The Great Recession. What we need to look at is what
we have done over the last twenty-five (25) years, which has been awesome. We are
the only County that has been actively playing the role of a developer, and a private
developer told me recently...and out of that, we have gotten about one thousand five
hundred (1,500) to two thousand (2,000) units that we have built since the late 1980s
and early 1990s and that will really reveal to us that is the format that our prior
Housing Directors and our present Director have been following. We have a lot to
look at in terms of what makes for successful affordable housing development, but
now we have to accelerate that. So that is the question; how do we accelerate that?
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. I am just
really thankful for the conversation and I think it is really good timing, given that we
are headed into budget, that we keep our eye on the ball here in terms of what the
COUNCIL MEETING 122 MARCH 14, 2018
need and request was here today and where we should be funneling our energy. As
our Budget & Finance Committee Chair said, hopefully the message is already being
taken at the administrative level so that perhaps that funding can be inserted prior
to the budget coming our way. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else? If not, I want to thank the
Housing Agency for being here. I think the people have to know that our Housing
Agency is number one in the State, which has come from the other agencies. The
other Counties that I have spoken to actually look to Kaua`i as being the leader and
the model in many of the things that they are doing. Kudos to Kanani and the
predecessors before that have set up that ground work. We can sit and talk story all
day long about what we can look at and all of these innovative things. At the end of
the day, I look at what is working on Hawai`i Island, for example. It works on Hawai`i
Island because they have land and they have available land that they can entice
affordable housing developers who actually can make a profit if they are going to have
to pay for the land. The land costs in Hawai`i is ridiculous, you will never make
money as a contractor/developer if you are only developing affordable housing. But
you can build a one million dollar ($1,000,000) estate subdivision and of course do
your little percentage in affordable and you might get a few units out of that. We will
never catch up to the need. I look at it as when you have the land available, you are
in a better place to negotiate and a much better place to develop affordable housing.
I just think that goes without saying. To have to try to research, looks for projects,
find developers, and then find land or find the money for the land—I think we are
working backwards. I understand and I heard Kanani loud and clear that really, it
is money. We want to develop housing, we have to put the money up. One million
dollars ($1,000,000) gives her twelve million dollars ($12,000,000) in leverage—okay,
I understand that. Are we willing to do that this year in the budget? Are we willing
to put our money where our mouth is? We will find out very shortly.
Councilmember Yukimura: Council Chair Rapozo?
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: I just want to say that I agree with you and
that if you look at our past projects, a lot of the land has come from our inclusionary
zoning and private developers. Then, we have used money and nonprofit developers,
sometimes profit-developers, to build the buildings on top of that. Koa`e was
inclusionary zoning, Kolopua was inclusionary zoning, and Pa'anau was inclusionary
zoning land. One of the ways to get land, and it is in my amendments, is to require
it as part of the inclusionary zoning requirement and it actually helps the developers,
because we are not now requiring them to do...we would not then require them to do
turnkey, but they would give us the land and offsite infrastructure and we would use
our capital and a nonprofit or profit housing developer to do the buildings on it. That
is actually when you look at it, how we have been doing it successfully over the last
few years.
Council Chair Rapozo: We do not have developers lining up to
develop on Kauai. With that model, you have to get development and basically go
get developers to come and develop. That is a problem. Every time we do have a
COUNCIL MEETING 123 MARCH 14, 2018
development, some of us are blocking it. In that model, we have to rely on the
developer so that we can get little nuggets and I am suggesting that we change that
thinking and let us go get our own housing, and we control it; not some developer who
is over here trying to nickel and dime us. Let us end this discussion. Councilmember
Brun.
Councilmember Brun: Council Chair Rapozo, I have a question. I do
not know if I missed a meeting, but I thought we were limited to two (2) times
speaking and five (5) minutes. It looks like we are going on all day with just speaking,
speaking, and speaking. Let us get through this. We already talked about this. We
are going to move on and work with the ordinance that is already there. We are just
beating a dead horse; it is done, you pulled it. Let us move on. We know we need
money, so let us find the money and get it done.
Council Chair Rapozo: The motion is to receive. Did we get a motion
to receive? I think the motion was done. We are all set. Does anybody else want to
chat?
The motion to receive Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2696) for the record was then
put, and unanimously carried.
Council Chair Rapozo: Motion carried. Next item.
Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2697) — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE TO AMEND
CHAPTERS 18, 20, AND 23, KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED,
RELATING TO REVOCABLE PERMITS IN COUNTY DESIGNATED RIGHTS-OF-
WAY: Councilmember Kagawa motion for passage of Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2697)
on first reading, that it be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be scheduled
for April 11, 2018, and referred to the Economic Development & Intergovernmental
Relations Committee, seconded by Councilmember Brun.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any discussion? Councilmember
Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Can Councilmember Kawakami please just
explain the thrust of the Bill for those who might want to come and testify?
Councilmember Kawakami: Sure.
Council Chair Rapozo: Go ahead.
Councilmember Kawakami: The very essence of this Proposed Draft Bill is
to create a very broad ordinance where various communities can empower themselves
to have these types of events where there are vending in public right-of-ways. There
are certain instances, say for example, and it is not specified to any one event, but we
do have a great event in Hanapepe every Friday night, Hanapepe Art Night, and
what is happening is we have vendors that are vending on County property and there
is no mechanism for any type of control/indemnification from lawsuits.
COUNCIL MEETING 124 MARCH 14, 2018
Council Chair Rapozo, the presiding officer, relinquished Chairmanship to
Councilmember Kagawa.
(Council Chair Rapozo was noted as not present.)
Councilmember Kawakami: So quite frankly, it is an illegal activity. We
want to allow these type of events to happen, so we are creating this framework and
regulatory process where these community organizations can apply for a revocable
permit, they can vet the various vendors and see if it is a good fit for their event, and
they can apply with the County for these revocable permits so that they can continue
to vend in public right-of-ways.
Councilmember Kagawa: Thank you, Councilmember Kawakami. I
want to thank Councilmember Kawakami. He volunteered to take this item from my
Committee and I will happily obliged and gave him this item, because he wanted to
work with the businesses in Hanapepe and have those meetings with them and try
to come up with a "win-win" situation in a difficult problem. I think Councilmember
Kawakami has put in the hard work and he needs to have the credit for coming up
with this. I have talked to several business owners, ones that had some issues with
our previous draft, and in talking to them, it seems that they are happy. They said
that they do not see it as "the end" or "perfect"; however, they said it is a great first
step. So we will see how it goes. As far as the applicability to Kapa'a and all of that,
I think we will see that as well. Some things are just not "one size fits all."
(Council Chair Rapozo was noted as present.)
Councilmember Kagawa: But this is definitely a start to try and get
some order and safety. I want to thank Councilmember Kawakami for handling this
issue and doing the due diligence with the community. Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Kagawa returned Chairmanship to Council Chair Rapozo.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you. I, too want to thank
Councilmember Kawakami and I just wanted to verify that in working with the
community organizations that were interested in this, that there has been a meeting
of the minds between the County Attorney, as I recall, and Mr. Steinmetz, the
Department of Public Works, and the community. So this represents the result of
that kind of collaboration.
Councilmember Kawakami: Correct. Thank you for all of the accolades,
but the real legwork went into the Administration. They went out to the various
business associations and worked with even the vendors, the popup vendors, and
worked with the residents. They went pretty deep as far as drumming up input from
various segments of our community.
Councilmember Yukimura: Thank you very much.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any other discussion?
COUNCIL MEETING 125 MARCH 14, 2018
Councilmember Kagawa: I just want to thank Lee again. I have worked
with Lee for a while on this and we had difficulty coming up with a final product, but
they took their time. We kind of saw it as, "Wow, this is actually an economic
development item because of the large gatherings," so that is why I thought it made
sense to go into Councilmember Kawakami's Committee because those large,
successful gatherings that we have, First Saturdays in Kapa'a Town and Hanapepe
Art Night, I think it is a huge part of Kaua`i's economic development and we want to
make sure that when we make laws and make changes, that we do not hurt those
events. A lot of people rely on those events being successful. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you. Is there any other discussion? If
not, roll call.
The motion for passage of Proposed Draft Bill (No. 2697) on first reading, that
it be ordered to print, that a public hearing thereon be scheduled for
April 11, 2018, and referred to the Economic Development &
Intergovernmental Relations Committee was then put, and carried by the
following vote:
FOR PASSAGE: Brun, Chock, Kagawa, Kaneshiro,
Kawakami, Yukimura, Rapozo TOTAL— 7,
AGAINST PASSAGE: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: Seven (7) ayes.
Council Chair Rapozo: We have to take a caption break. Sorry about
that. Ten (10) minute caption break.
There being no objections, the meeting recessed at 3:37 p.m.
The meeting reconvened at 3:49 a.m., and proceeded as follows:
(Councilmembers Kagawa and Kawakami were noted as not present.)
Council Chair Rapozo: The meeting is called back to order. Next
item.
Ms. Fountain-Tanigawa: We are on page 7, Bills for Second Reading.
BILLS FOR SECOND READING:
Bill No. 2627, Draft 3 — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE TO AMEND
CHAPTER 10, KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED, BY ADDING A NEW
ARTICLE 5B, RELATING TO THE LIHU`E PLANNING DISTRICT (County of
Kauai,Applicant): Councilmember Chock moved to receive Bill No. 2627, Draft 3, for
the record, seconded by Councilmember Kaneshiro.
COUNCIL MEETING 126 MARCH 14, 2018
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you very much. Is there any discussion
or public testimony?
There being no objections, the rules were suspended to take public testimony.
There being no one present to provide testimony, the meeting was called back
to order, and proceeded as follows:
Council Chair Rapozo: Seeing none, roll call.
The motion to receive Bill No. 2627, Draft 3, for the record was then put, and
carried by the following vote:
FOR RECEIPT: Brun, Chock, Kagawa, Kaneshiro,
Kawakami, Yukimura, Rapozo TOTAL — 7*,
AGAINST RECEIPT: None TOTAL — 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0.
(*Pursuant to Rule No. 5(b) of the Rules of the Council of the County of Kauai,
Councilmembers Kagawa and Kawakami were noted as silent (not present), but shall
be recorded as an affirmative vote for the motion.)
Council Chair Rapozo: Next item, please.
Bill No. 2686, Draft 1 — A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE TO AMEND THE
KAUAI COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED, CHAPTER 8, RELATING TO THE
COMPREHENSIVE ZONING ORDINANCE (Additional Rental Unit — Planning
Commission Recommendation): Councilmember Chock moved to approve
Bill No. 2686, Draft 1, on second and final reading, and that it be transmitted to the
Mayor for his approval, seconded by Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Council Chair Rapozo: Do you have an amendment?
Councilmember Chock moved to amend Bill No. 2686, Draft 1, as circulated,
and as shown in the Floor Amendment, which is attached hereto as
Attachment 1, seconded by Councilmember Brun.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you.
Councilmember Chock: This stemmed from multiple requests—the
Carpenter's Association—the reference to the Condominium Property Regime (CPR)
chapter. All of that came in with the carpenters' request, which includes the tsunami
evacuation zone. You probably all received a copy of the response from the Planning
Department on that. Some of this is insignificant in terms of the amendment, the
"should" to "shall," and then again, referencing the statutes. I think the one on the
table that is most in question is the tsunami evacuation zone. I have this amendment
and I also have another amendment that does not have the evacuation zone,
depending on how this discussion goes.
COUNCIL MEETING 127 MARCH 14, 2018
Council Chair Rapozo: Did we change the "should" to "shall?"
Councilmember Chock: It should have been to "shall."
Council Chair Rapozo: Where is that? I do not see that. Page 1,
Section 1, third paragraph: "said properties `should' be prohibited"? On page 3 (4)(f),
it says, "shall be prohibited." I am assuming that...
Councilmember Chock: It says "shall."
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Go ahead, Councilmember Brun.
Councilmember Brun: So with this amendment, it would prohibit
from building within the tsunami evacuation zone?
Councilmember Chock: That is correct. I believe the position of the
Planning Department is that they are not in support of including this particular
amendment because of the outreach effect that it would have on the current
ordinance.
Councilmember Brun: Basically, Kekaha, Waimea, and parts of
Wailua, so the intent of the Bill would be diminished just with that anyway.
Councilmember Chock: For the record, I introduced it for the sake of
discussion.
Councilmember Brun: Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: Your first amendment is to the purpose
section and so you have one, two, three, and four amendments that you are
proposing....
(Councilmember Kawakami was noted as present.)
Councilmember Chock: Correct.
Councilmember Yukimura: Where is the purpose statement
implemented? Is it in the reference to Chapter 5(1)(4)(b)? Is that is what is
implementing the purpose? The purpose is not a prohibition in and of itself.
Councilmember Chock: I think it must have been that this language
needed to be included within the purpose...the highlighted...
Councilmember Yukimura: I understand the amendment to the purpose
statement, but I am wondering where the language is in the purpose statement now
implemented within the Bill.
COUNCIL MEETING 128 MARCH 14, 2018
Council Chair Rapozo: I think what happened is if you look at the
original bill, in the purpose section, they used the word"should." If you look on page 3
of the Bill, if you look in your agenda and pull the Bill, on(f), they use the word"shall."
So it is just bringing the two (2) sentences and making it the same.
Councilmember Yukimura: In other words, you are not actually
implementing all properties in the tsunami zone, that is not in the Bill itself; it is just
stated in the purpose statement?
Councilmember Kaneshiro: Council Chair Rapozo, it is in the Bill. It is on
the very bottom of the page.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: It is on (f).
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. It just was not highlighted. Thank you
very much, Councilmember Kaneshiro. Then 2 and 3 by adding the reference to
Chapter 514B and Chapter 448E, what is the significance of that?
Councilmember Chock: I think it had to do with...
Council Chair Rapozo: It just adds plumbers and electricians. This
all comes out of the Department of Commerce and Consumer Affairs (DCCA)
requirements. Chapter 444 covers the contractors and 448E covers the plumbers and
electricians.
Councilmember Yukimura: So may I read it? "Neither the owner or
owners, nor the heirs, successors or assigns of the owner or owners will submit the
lot or any portion thereof to a condominium property regime under the provisions of
Hawai'i Revised Statutes, Chapter 514A..." So the prohibition stands. That is not
changed, but it just refers to the additional chapter.
Councilmember Chock: Yes.
Councilmember Yukimura: Number 3, "The permitting and construction
of an Additional Rental Unit shall conform to Chapter 444 and Chapter 448E of the
Hawaii Revised Statutes."
Council Chair Rapozo: Yes, Chapter 448E is the plumbers...I am
sorry...Chapter 514B is just a different amendment.
Councilmember Chock: That is for the CPR statute.
Councilmember Yukimura: So this is being introduced for discussion
purposes only so, Planning Committee Chair Chock, are you not supporting these?
Councilmember Chock: Again, the housekeeping ones would be the
statutes that were added in. I think the one that was in question based on the last
COUNCIL MEETING 129 MARCH 14, 2018
committee meeting that we had was the tsunami evacuations. Based on my
discussion with the Planning Department, my decision will be to not support the
inclusion of the evacuation zones.
Councilmember Yukimura: And the idea that you would support what is
in the current bill draft, which is just in Hanalei?
Councilmember Chock: Correct.
Councilmember Yukimura: So the distinction being that Hanalei
evacuation requires people to drive out of the Hanalei Valley, whereas in the other
tsunami evacuation zones, the evacuation is easier.
Councilmember Chock: Correct.
Councilmember Yukimura: Did anybody talk to the Emergency
Management Agency about this?
Councilmember Chock: No, I did not.
Council Chair Rapozo: I have a question. So you are not supporting
Councilmember Chock: That is correct.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are you going to take this ad seriatim?
Councilmember Chock: Again, I was asked to introduce this whole
amendment and it just kind of came in pieces, so I introduced the tsunami evacuation
inclusion for discussion purposes. I can pull this. I have another amendment that
just has everything without the evacuation zone. We can do it ad seriatim or as you
wished, Council Chair Rapozo.
Council Chair Rapozo: I would say ad seriatim and go right down. If
you look at this, you have one, two, three, and four parts of this amendment. One
and four are connected and two and three are housekeeping. So I would just say we
do it ad seriatim. Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: I completely agree. I think the amendment
here is good enough and if we do it ad seriatim, I think we will get to the same end
result. For me, I will not be supporting the language regarding all properties within
the tsunami evacuation zone. It is not the say that I want everybody to be in the
tsunami evacuation zone. People are allowed to build in the tsunami evacuation zone.
I think much of Kapa`a, Kekaha, and Waimea are all in tsunami evacuation zones,
but if we put language like this in, then we will basically be eliminating everybody's
opportunity...really limiting people's opportunity to take advantage of this ARU. We
heard the justification for why we took Hanalei out and we had a recent scare there
and people said it is crazy to get out of Hanalei and we just do not think it is safe to
do it. For me, I am ready to vote on this.
COUNCIL MEETING 130 MARCH 14, 2018
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: Council Chair Rapozo, just to clarify, the
amendment distinguishing between "should" versus "shall" is within the first
highlighted amendment. They are connected, so if that fails, then just for
clarification, that would eliminate the "shall."
Council Chair Rapozo: Right.
Councilmember Brun: So you should do the second amendment that
you have?
Councilmember Chock: That is why the second amendment by Yvette
was created to include "shall." If it is okay, I will just read what the second
amendment would state: "Because of community concerns over the limited access to
evacuation infrastructure for those properties located within the County of Kaua`i's
Tsunami Evacuation Zones west of the Hanalei River, said properties shall be
prohibited from constructing any Additional Rental Units." That would be the new
amendment within the second option.
Council Chair Rapozo: Let us dispose of this amendment here, and
then if you need to clean it with that additional one...is that okay? I tend to agree
with this amendment with this language as far as the tsunami. Remember, this is
entitlement. This is a special entitlement that we are doing and I think it is for us to
promote that in a tsunami zone might not be...I understand your folk's points, but I
do not feel really good about allowing these extra units on these small properties in
the tsunami zone. That is just my personal feeling. Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: I have some considerations along the same
line and the small properties will not be able to...they will in Waimea where they
have sewers, but in Kekaha, small properties will not be able to, because they
probably will not have enough room for septic tank. What bothers me is making some
assumptions without having conferred with the Emergency Management Agency to
really know from their standpoint what the situation is, both in Hanalei and
elsewhere. I would actually feel much better if we could just double-check with them
and understand for sure what the situation is without making assumptions, because
this is, as the Council Chair Rapozo pointed out, an entitlement bill, and if we give
out entitlements prematurely, it is really hard to pull them back.
Councilmember Chock: Council Chair Rapozo, again, the reason why
we are having this discussion was based on your request from the last Committee
Meeting. I believe the Planning Department has gone and done not only this research,
but may have also...perhaps, if the question can be answered that she has...
Councilmember Yukimura: That would be good. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Can you answer that question? I will suspend
the rules.
COUNCIL MEETING 131 MARCH 14, 2018
There being no objections, the rules were suspended.
KA`AINA S. HULL, Deputy Planning Director: Good afternoon, Council
Chair Rapozo and Members of the Council, Ka`aina Hull on behalf of the Planning
Department, for the record. In preparing the maps for you folks, it compares the
residential zoning districts across the island in relation to the tsunami evacuation
zone. The Department did reach out the Elton folks at the Emergency Management
Agency and discussed their concerns and the way that the previous proposal had been
initiated. Essentially, what we were able to come to the consensus was that when
compared to the rest of the island, those areas west of Hanalei have significantly
limited access to evacuation infrastructure, in particular, when there is flooding like
today, where one of those roads is entirely closed-off, not just a one-lane bridge. Given
that significant limitation to infrastructure evacuation routes, it was warranted to
prohibit further density in that area as opposed to other areas of the island.
Council Chair Rapozo: Let me ask you this question. Does Elton
folks support ARUs in tsunami zones?
Mr. Hull: That, we did not get into.
Council Chair Rapozo: That is the real question, because I think
when you frame it with Hanalei, obviously, it is very clear that that is not a good idea,
but I am curious to see what Elton would say if you asked him if he supports ARUs
in tsunami evacuation zones. I think you folks are ready to vote, I guess that is the
question I am asking, because I do not want to defer this. For me, I do not support it
in the zone. It clutters the zone. I do not need Elton to tell me that. I just think it is
bad practice to increase density as an entitlement. If you have a new lot, of course
you can build your home, but this is over and above what you are typically entitled
to. I just cannot support that right now.
Councilmember Yukimura: I have a question.
Council Chair Rapozo: Go ahead.
Councilmember Yukimura: Ka aina, when they said west of...where?
West of the road closure or west of the Hanalei Bridge?
Mr. Hull: It is essentially the bridge, which is the
primary impediment to evacuation.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay.
Mr. Hull: So it is essentially getting across that river.
So the language was crafted in consultation with the Office of the County Attorney
that it be west of the river itself.
Councilmember Yukimura: Do you have new maps from what you gave us
two (2) weeks ago?
COUNCIL MEETING 132 MARCH 14, 2018
Mr. Hull: No, I sent over maps to the Council last week
Monday.
Councilmember Yukimura: Okay. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions of Ka`aina? If
not, thank you very much.
Mr. Hull: Thank you.
Councilmember Chock: Sorry, I have one (1) more question.
Council Chair Rapozo: I am sorry.
Councilmember Chock: My understanding is based on the fact that if
we were to include this language of the tsunami evacuation zone and limit it, the
impact on the Bill and the opportunity of buildouts from the Bill would be significant.
Is that correct?
Mr. Hull: It will be significantly altered. I can
appreciate Council Chair Rapozo's position on it. I think there is obviously some
concern whenever you have it in a danger route, but the tsunami evacuation zone is
an area that is to be evacuated in the event of a tsunami. There are other
entitlements when you are looking at flooding and what not that those standards still
have to be met when building under Federal Emergency Management
Agency (FEMA) standards and what not. There are still significant protections to
ensure they are not subject to things like flooding, coastal erosion, or what have you.
The evacuation route is just to say that you are in this area and you need to evacuate,
and at least from our discussions with the Emergency Management Agency, the other
areas do have adequate infrastructure to accommodate an evacuation. Council Chair
Rapozo's comments are not left ignored.
Council Chair Rapozo: Are there any other questions for Ka'aina?
Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: From looking at the maps, Lihu`e is
actually...if I am looking at the right map...is actually the best place for ARUs. It is
the least area that is in tsunami areas.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is that a question?
Councilmember Yukimura: Yes. Am I accurate or am I off? I am looking
at it...
Mr. Hull: If you take the position that you do not want
ARUs whatsoever to be constructed in a tsunami evacuation zone, then, yes, you could
come to that conclusion; however, in discussions with other folks...the places that are
most inundated or covered by the tsunami evacuation zone would be, as
Councilmember Brun pointed out, Kekaha and Waimea, which have some of those
COUNCIL MEETING 133 MARCH 14, 2018
immediate access to evacuation routes in and out of that area. Under that premise,
even though there is a way to relatively quickly evacuate those areas, you would have
to come to a conclusion that you still should not be allowed to build in that area. That
is a position after consultation with the Emergency Management Agency that the
Planning Department is not willing to take at this time.
Councilmember Yukimura: If I look at Waimea and Kekaha...actually,
most Waimea that is zoned R-1 to R-8 is out, except right in the town, whereas all of
Kekaha is in the tsunami zone. Are you showing the large lots in here? The small
lots cannot get an ARU because the town is not sewer.
Mr. Hull: So the lots that are being reflected that
qualified for an ARU under the size in Waimea and Kekaha are those lots that are
shaded red and those lots in Waimea in particular that had access to a sewer system
and those lots that have diagonal lines in it, those are the lots that given their size,
despite not having access to a sewer system, indeed, would still qualify for an ARU.
What we are saying is that there is a significant amount of those in the Waimea and
Kekaha area that have immediate access and are located in a close vicinity outside of
the evacuation zones that by installing the proposals to limit it, would reject these
property owners from the opportunity of constructing the ARU.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Brun.
Councilmember Brun: By putting this tsunami evacuation zone,
again, we are screwing everybody on the west side. Again, we are taking this out
where we cannot build and it is...all this work on the Bill to put it to islandwide is we
are right back to square one again because we only want to build in Lihu`e. It cannot
help that Lihu`e does not have an ocean around them. We, on the west side, have an
ocean. Again, we are going to be hurt by this, right?
Mr. Hull: Correct, the proposal would stop Waimea and
Kekaha.
Councilmember Brun: Thank you very much.
Council Chair Rapozo: Until there is a tsunami, and then we look
back and say, "Oh my gosh." I can count, so there is no need to belabor this point.
We should move to the vote and try to get our staff out of here by 4:30 p.m.
Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: I want to say that when we go by tsunami
zones, we are not going by which town is which; we are going by public safety issues.
It is not a Lihu`e versus west side thing. It is about public safety.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any more discussion?
Councilmember Kaneshiro: So we are going to take a vote on this
Bill...this amendment and...
COUNCIL MEETING 134 MARCH 14, 2018
Council Chair Rapozo: If it goes the way I think it is going to go, then
you can introduce the clean-up amendment.
There being no objections, the meeting was called back to order, and proceeded
as follows:
Councilmember Kaneshiro: I will not be supporting this amendment. I
think the intent of this Bill is to provide additional housing for Kauai. I do not want
to get it twisted where we are saying, "Let them build in the tsunami zone," and it is
super dangerous, because the fact of the matter is that people can build in the
tsunami zone. We have houses in tsunami zones, roads in tsunami zones, schools in
tsunami zones, fire stations in the tsunami zones, and a lot of stuff in the tsunami
zones. The intent of this Bill is to create additional housing. For tsunamis, they give
us enough warning. People can move. The reason we took Hanalei out is because
Hanalei gets super congested. But everyone has a right to build in a tsunami zone.
We have allowed people to build in the tsunami zones. I just do not want it to get
twisted where we are saying, "Yes, we know we are going to be putting people in
danger," because that is not the case. The case is that we have a whole bunch of
facilities in the tsunami zone. Anything near the ocean is in the tsunami zone. The
intent of this Bill is to create additional residential units because we have a housing
crisis and that is what I intend to do by voting "no" on this and voting to try to get
more housing on the island.
Council Chair Rapozo: Let us do this then...Councilmember Chock,
why do you not withdraw that amendment and introduce yours? That is going to save
a bunch of time.
Councilmember Chock withdrew the motion to amend Bill No. 2686, Draft 1,
as circulated, and as shown in the Floor Amendment, which is attached hereto
as Attachment 1. Councilmember Brun withdrew the second.
Council Chair Rapozo: Thank you.
Councilmember Chock: So this is only limiting to Hanalei and
including the "shall."
Councilmember Chock moved to amend Bill No. 2686, Draft 1, as circulated,
and as shown in the Floor Amendment, which is attached hereto as
Attachment 2, seconded by Councilmember Brun.
Council Chair Rapozo: I think the discussion has been had. Again, it
is housekeeping for the most part. Any further discussion before I call for the vote on
the amendment? If not, roll call.
The motion amend Bill No. 2686, Draft 1, as circulated, and as shown in the
Floor Amendment, which is attached hereto as Attachment 2 was then put,
and carried by the following vote:
FOR AMENDMENT: Brun, Chock, Kagawa, Kaneshiro,
COUNCIL MEETING 135 MARCH 14, 2018
Kawakami, Yukimura, Rapozo TOTAL— 7*,
AGAINST AMENDMENT: None TOTAL— 0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL— 0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL — 0.
(*Pursuant to Rule No. 5(b) of the Rules of the Council of the County of Kauai,
Councilmember Kagawa was noted as silent (not present), but shall be recorded as an
affirmative vote for the motion.)
Council Chair Rapozo: We are back to the main motion. Is there any
further discussion? Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: I just want to say that I am sorry that we
could not add on a very simple provision requiring the recordation of the prohibition
against CPR'ing of this ARU. I think it is a best practice and it will address what
could become a very serious enforcement issue, just like how Transient Vacation
Rentals (TVRs) have become an enforcement issue if we do not have it recorded in the
deed. It is such a minor but important provision and I am very disappointed that you
voted against including that in the last Bill. We want this ARU Bill to work and that
provision would have helped the ARU Bill to work better. That is basically what I
want to say about that.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any other discussion?
Councilmember Brun.
Councilmember Brun: Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo. I
cosponsored the introduction of this Bill and I would like to thank Councilmember
Chock for his leadership and cooperation in drafting this islandwide ARU ordinance.
I would also like to thank the Housing Committee Task Force who worked on this
Bill and I want to thank all of the various neighborhood associations and community
organizations that gave input to the Planning Department during their yearlong
outreach to the island. I objected to the first ARU Bill that was introduced. First, it
eliminated housing to only Lihu'e, which we talked about again today. The housing
crisis is everywhere and we cannot solve it by only focusing on Lihu'e. Sure, we need
to see what we can do to further housing in our main town, but we cannot limit our
solutions only to Lihu'e. We need to provide the opportunity for as many of our
residents as possible. Second, the original ARU Bill had extreme limitations on
property size. Lastly and most importantly, as I understand it, from my discussions
with the Planning Department, with the original Bill, you could not construct an ARU
on any property that has an Additional Dwelling Unit (ADU) or second dwelling.
Right now, every residential property qualifies for an ARU or a second dwelling.
Every single residential property qualifies for an ADU or a second dwelling. If I can
already build an ADU, I have to choose between an ADU or an ARU. I am not going
to pick the more regulated ARU over the ADU. In the original Bill, no property owner
would choose to build an ARU over an ADU. The original Bill would not have gotten
us any ARUs and would not have gotten us any additional inventory to the housing
stock. The original ARU Bill was extremely flawed. I appreciate the fact that I was
able to work with Councilmember Chock on this islandwide bill. This Bill will allow
an ARU beyond that second dwelling. This Bill allows families in residential areas
COUNCIL MEETING 136 MARCH 14, 2018
across Kaua`i to take advantage of building another house if they choose to. This
islandwide bill will not solve the housing crisis, but is one of the many solutions we
need to keep on pushing to provide local families with the opportunity to put a roof
over their heads. I want to thank everyone. I hope this passes. It will be a large step
in our island's fight against the housing crisis and I would like to thank all of your
contributions to that fight, but the work is not done. It is nowhere near done. We
need to look at reducing the cost of construction for local housing and look at providing
aid for expensive septic systems for local housing. We need to look at reducing the
extremely high cost of water meters for local housing and the regulatory barriers for
large-scale housing proposals, as well as small ones. Most of all, we need to stop just
talking about it and we need to start doing it. If this Bill passes, this will be a big
step in doing as opposed to just talking. Let us keep the momentum going. Thank
you all. Thank you, Council Chair Rapozo.
Council Chair Rapozo: Is there any other discussion?
Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: We are in a housing crisis; that is no secret.
This Bill is not the golden ticket that is going to solve all of our housing problems, but
it is an opportunity to chip away at our housing crisis, so I am happy for this Bill. I
am hoping that people can take advantage of it. I am hoping that people will be adding
ARUs so that one family is not stuck in one house and the family can maybe have a
little more room or a family can have their elderly parents come and move in by them
and they can take care of them there. There are many opportunities, and that is what
this Bill provides, opportunity. Regarding Councilmember Yukimura's concern on
TVRs, the Bill specifically says, "The additional rental unit shall not be used for
transient accommodations, including, but not limited to, a homestay or transient
vacation rental." So it is addressed in this Bill. Enforcement is a whole different
thing than being put into...I do not think our enforcement rules on TVRs should be
put into an additional rental unit bill. I think enforcement should be done on the
planning side or in a different bill. We do have enforcement laws on it. I am happy
about this Bill. I think it is one method of chipping away at our housing crisis. Again,
we are still going to have to look for many other solutions on how to help our housing
crisis. This is just one and I think it is a step in the right direction.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Chock.
Councilmember Chock: Thank you. This Bill has been in the process
for about two and a half(2%)years now and I just want to thank everyone for keeping
focused on the need and the intention of the Bill. I think the first bill, in my request,
was to please rather than kill it, see it as an opportunity, work on it further, and
revise it so that it can be one of the many tools that is necessary for us to try and
address our housing crisis. I see this ARU as really just a small and first step in some
of what we have already taken, and I want to stress "will continue to take" in trying
to address some of the needs, which includes more changes in our zoning, as well as
looking at how it is we can create more incentives to limit some of the cost of housing,
or in this case, increase the kind of housing inventory that we are seeking. I just
want to thank you for keeping it alive throughout the process and coming up...well,
COUNCIL MEETING 137 MARCH 14, 2018
maybe not perfect, to one more aspect or tool for us in the toolbox to create a space
for people to live. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Anyone else? Councilmember Yukimura.
Councilmember Yukimura: I want to thank the Planning Department for
these maps. This kind of data is really helpful in decision-making. I will be voting
for this Bill because I do believe it can help our housing problem. My amendments
and my concerns have been to make it the best bill it can be and the TVR issue was
not the one I just raised, but it is the issue of making more enforceable prohibition
against CPR'ing the additional rental unit. That is still troublesome. If it becomes a
problem, which I think it will be, we will be back to amend it. I would have liked to
start as a pilot project so that we could work out all of the kinks out before putting
out so many entitlements, but it is the will of the majority to go broadly and I do
recognize its contribution to making affordable housing more possible; that is why I
will be voting for it. I want to say that this Bill alone is not going to be the only
solution and this idea of additional capital, as well as revising our housing ordinance,
Ordinance No. 860, as well as just being a lot more aggressive in our efforts, they are
all going to be necessary. We need to remove the limitations on affordability. For
example, where taxed subsidized housing projects are affordable only for ten (10),
thirty (30), or even fifty (50) years, because that will severely limit the inventory of
affordable housing that we have to expand as fast as we can. There are other things
that we need to do, but I believe that this is part of the format.
Council Chair Rapozo: Councilmember Kaneshiro.
Councilmember Kaneshiro: I was mistaken...I thought you were talking
about TVRs, but the Bill also addresses CPRs. It says, "Neither the owner or owners,
nor the heirs, successors or assigns of the owner or owners will submit the lot or any
portion thereof to a condominium property regime under the provisions of Hawai`i
Revised Statutes, Chapter 514A, to separate the ownership of an Additional Rental
Unit from the ownership of its primary dwelling unit."
Councilmember Yukimura: That is not my objection. My objection is that
we did not include a recordation factor that would put it in the deed and make it much
easier to enforce. Thank you.
Council Chair Rapozo: Okay. Anything else? Roll call.
The moved to approve Bill No. 2686, Draft 1, as amended to Bill No. 2686,
Draft 2, on second and final reading, and that it be transmitted to the Mayor for
his approval was then put, and carried by the following vote:
FOR APPROVAL: Brun, Chock, Kagawa, Kaneshiro,
Kawakami, Yukimura, Rapozo TOTAL— 7*,
AGAINST APPROVAL: None TOTAL—0,
EXCUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL—0,
RECUSED & NOT VOTING: None TOTAL—0.
COUNCIL MEETING 138 MARCH 14, 2018
(*Pursuant to Rule No. 5(b) of the Rules of the Council of the County of Kauai,
Councilmember Kagawa was noted as silent (not present), but shall be recorded as an
affirmative vote for the motion.)
Council Chair Rapozo: With that, our business is concluded. This
meeting is adjourned.
ADJOURNMENT.
There being no further business, the Council Meeting adjourned at 4:26 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
gig I
JA m ' K. FOUNTAIN-TANIGAWA
County Clerk
:aa
Attachment 1
(March 14, 2018)
FLOOR AMENDMENT
Bill No. 2686, DRAFT 1, A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE TO AMEND THE KAUAI
COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED, CHAPTER 8, RELATING TO THE
COMPREHENSIVE ZONING ORDINANCE
Introduced by: MASON K. CHOCK
1. Amend Bill No. 2686, Draft 1, SECTION 1, to read as follows:
"SECTION 1. Findings and Purpose. The Council of the County of
Kaua`i finds that there is an urgent need to address the shortage of available rental
housing units on Kaua`i.
The purpose of this Ordinance is to allow the construction of Additional Rental
Units island wide to increase the number of rental units in Kaua`i's Residential
Zoning Districts without substantially altering existing neighborhood character.
Because of community concerns over the limited access to evacuation
infrastructure for those properties located within the County of Kaua`i's Tsunami
Evacuation Zones, all properties within the County of Kaua`i's Tsunami Evacuation
Zone shall be prohibited from constructing any Additional Rental Units."
2. Amend Bill No. 2686, Draft 1, Section 8-30.1(a)(3) to read as follows:
"(3) Neither the owner or owners, nor the heirs, successors or assigns of the
owner or owners will submit the lot or any portion thereof to a condominium property
regime under the provisions of Hawai`i Revised Statutes, Chapter 514A and Chapter
514B, to separate the ownership of an Additional Rental Unit from the ownership of
its primary dwelling unit."
3. Amend Bill No. 2686, Section 8-30.1(e) to read as follows:
"(e) The permitting and construction of an Additional Rental Unit shall
conform to Chapter 444 and Chapter 448E of the Hawaii Revised Statutes."
4. Amend Bill No. 2686, Section 8-30.1(f) to read as follows:
(f) Additional Rental Units shall be prohibited on any property located
within any of the County of Kaua`i's Tsunami Evacuation Zones.
(New material to be added is underscored.)
V:\AMENDMENTS\2018\Revised Bill 2686 D1 Housekeeping Chock YS_dmc.docx
1
Attachment 2
(March 14, 2018)
FLOOR AMENDMENT
Bill No. 2686, DRAFT 1, A BILL FOR AN ORDINANCE TO AMEND THE KAUAI
COUNTY CODE 1987, AS AMENDED, CHAPTER 8, RELATING TO THE
COMPREHENSIVE ZONING ORDINANCE
Introduced by: MASON K. CHOCK
1. Amend Bill No. 2686, Draft 1, SECTION 1, to read as follows:
"SECTION 1. Findings and Purpose. The Council of the County of
Kaua`i finds that there is an urgent need to address the shortage of available rental
housing units on Kauai.
The purpose of this Ordinance is to allow the construction of Additional Rental
Units island wide to increase the number of rental units in Kaua`i's Residential
Zoning Districts without substantially altering existing neighborhood character.
Because of community concerns over the limited access to evacuation
infrastructure for those properties located within the County of Kaua`i's Tsunami
Evacuation Zones west of the Hanalei River, said properties shall be prohibited from
constructing any Additional Rental Units."
2. Amend Bill No. 2686, Draft 1, Section 8-30.1(a)(3) to read as follows:
"(3) Neither the owner or owners, nor the heirs, successors or assigns of the.
owner or owners will submit the lot or any portion thereof to a condominium property
regime under the provisions of Hawai`i Revised Statutes, Chapter 514A and Chapter
514B, to separate the ownership of an Additional Rental Unit from the ownership of
its primary dwelling unit."
3. Amend Bill No. 2686, Section 8-30.1(e) to read as follows:
"(e) The permitting and construction of an Additional Rental Unit shall
conform to Chapter 444 and Chapter 448E of the Hawaii Revised Statutes."
(New material to be added is underscored.)
V:\AMENDMENTS\2018\Revised Bill 2686 D1 Housekeeping Chock YS_dmc.docx
1